From nobody Tue Apr 1 06:54:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B851A09F8; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 06:54:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l7BQV43lOmuS; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 06:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3AF1A070F; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 06:54:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.2.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140401135432.22732.42412.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 06:54:32 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/JWA0H_X_3XizoxxnAfZdlsUQERM Cc: avt@ietf.org Subject: [AVTCORE] I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11.txt X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 13:54:33 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance Working Group of the IETF. Title : AES-GCM and AES-CCM Authenticated Encryption in Secure RTP (SRTP) Authors : David A. McGrew Kevin M. Igoe Filename : draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11.txt Pages : 36 Date : 2014-04-01 Abstract: This document defines how AES-GCM and AES-CCM Authenticated Encryption with Associated Data algorithms can be used to provide confidentiality and data authentication in the SRTP protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Apr 1 07:24:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 430871A06DB for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 07:24:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.851 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aaPz1aPvM1RT for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 07:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw2.ericsson.se (mailgw2.ericsson.se [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E368B1A0847 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 07:24:19 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-b7f3b8e0000006f1-63-533acc0fc3b5 Received: from ESESSHC015.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw2.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 82.90.01777.F0CCA335; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 16:24:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.65) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.174.1; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 16:24:15 +0200 Message-ID: <533ACC0F.9060103@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 16:24:15 +0200 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <20140401135432.22732.42412.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140401135432.22732.42412.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjS7/Gatgg3fXdC2mn/nLaPGyZyW7 A5PHlycvmTyWLPnJFMAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJXxdcMGpoLdwhXz2qazNjAu4e9i5OSQEDCR 6Ln+gwXCFpO4cG89WxcjF4eQwGFGidZXX9khnGWMEhsnb2ADqeIV0JZY0XCQCcRmEVCRmND6 F6ybTcBC4uaPRrAaUYFgiaVzFrNA1AtKnJz5BMwWERCSmN4/AayXWUBV4v7zZrB6YQFPiZ2n prCC2EICjhKH564Dq+cUcJK4vPELUJwD6DpxiZ7GIIhWPYkpV1sYIWx5ieats5khWrUlGpo6 WCcwCs1CsnkWkpZZSFoWMDKvYmTPTczMSS832sQIDNWDW36r7mC8c07kEKM0B4uSOO+Ht85B QgLpiSWp2ampBalF8UWlOanFhxiZODilGhiZ5M8+U3mtU1o5YZqgQ/0lphPNB2a95lqRPinx 9A3+1yzBx1rcFoWr7TngbMwiaVfxLqbo1euaXbvLGg9JB3nb7uH/sHbyhZpYYdHkjQwVdUa9 2Yya13tnz35rq9oS6vjnfpZjst2FkvvRifJq7s+n1Enov8hdcUqXuaT+1gZWo+Qbzz6WrFVi Kc5INNRiLipOBAAlmBV7IwIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/YRo5KSR38egHLiswU7boh-6kK0c Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11.txt X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 14:24:22 -0000 WG, As result of the AD review and some comments within the WG, a number of changes has been done to this document. I will let the authors comment on what changes has been done. Anyway, before progressing to IETF last call, I like to have the WG have one week until the 8th of April to review the changes to this document. So please any comments on these changes as soon as possible. Cheers Magnus On 2014-04-01 15:54, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : AES-GCM and AES-CCM Authenticated Encryption in Secure RTP (SRTP) > Authors : David A. McGrew > Kevin M. Igoe > Filename : draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11.txt > Pages : 36 > Date : 2014-04-01 > > Abstract: > This document defines how AES-GCM and AES-CCM Authenticated > Encryption with Associated Data algorithms can be used to provide > confidentiality and data authentication in the SRTP protocol. > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance > avt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt > > -- Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Services, Media and Network features, Ericsson Research EAB/TXM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Apr 1 10:24:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 913421A09C3; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 10:24:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1uKH3dKdCJd4; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 10:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0B581A09C5; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 10:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.2.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140401172444.30472.74816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 10:24:44 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/Oap58oK3CnecrJc_WpyR3jbmA8U Cc: avtcore chair , avtcore mailing list , RFC Editor Subject: [AVTCORE] Protocol Action: 'RTP Clock Source Signalling' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-avtcore-clksrc-11.txt) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 17:24:48 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'RTP Clock Source Signalling' (draft-ietf-avtcore-clksrc-11.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alissa Cooper and Richard Barnes. A URL of this Internet Draft is: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-clksrc/ Technical Summary NTP format timestamps are used by several RTP protocols for synchronisation and statistical measurements. This memo specifies SDP signalling identifying timestamp reference clock sources and SDP signalling identifying the media clock sources in a multimedia session. Working Group Summary This document was written as a result of discussion on another draft which made it clear that there is a need to be able to specify the clock used for RTP in order to achieve better synchronization between sources. It was seen as a general problem and this document represent the WG consensus. Document Quality The authors are aware of two implementation that use at least some of the signaling capabilities described in this draft: http:// soundandpicture.com/2013/11/axia-announces-first-broadcast-product-with- aes67-compliance/ and http://ravenna.alcnetworx.com/technology/open- technology-standards/aes67-x192.html The draft is a normative reference for the recently published AES67 standard and is referenced by https://ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-idms/ which is now in the RFC editor queue waiting for this document. There was an SDP directorate review and comments were addressed. Personnel Document Shepherd is Roni Even and the responsible AD is Alissa Cooper. From nobody Tue Apr 1 16:17:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F441A0011 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 16:17:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pbjSshmNpHde for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 16:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.117]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DF71A0002 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 16:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 353FB7C50FB for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2014 01:17:03 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R2xxCkzkvS+L for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2014 01:16:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.20.1.105] (114.red-80-28-236.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net [80.28.236.114]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7A0ED7C5083 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2014 01:16:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <533B48E9.5050501@alvestrand.no> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 01:16:57 +0200 From: Harald Alvestrand User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: avt@ietf.org References: <20140401224948.4662.48077.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140401224948.4662.48077.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000402060009020507060602" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/bLZh2RmdU3T3FrPoRIuFcKLmai4 Subject: [AVTCORE] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-alvestrand-sdp-header-00.txt X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 23:17:11 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000402060009020507060602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some of the issues we have been having with the relationship between SDP and RTP may be illuminated by studying the missive below. Harald -------- Original Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-alvestrand-sdp-header-00.txt Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 15:49:48 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Harald T. Alvestrand , Harald Alvestrand A new version of I-D, draft-alvestrand-sdp-header-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Harald Alvestrand and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-alvestrand-sdp-header Revision: 00 Title: The SDP RTCP Extension Document date: 2014-04-01 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 5 URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-alvestrand-sdp-header-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-alvestrand-sdp-header/ Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-alvestrand-sdp-header-00 Abstract: This document specifies an RTCP extension that allows SDP information to be carried over an RTP session. This extension obivates the need for a separate negotiation channel, thereby avoiding the risk of desynchronization between the SDP session description and the RTP session state. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------000402060009020507060602 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some of the issues we have been having with the relationship between SDP and RTP may be illuminated by studying the missive below.

Harald


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-alvestrand-sdp-header-00.txt
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 15:49:48 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Harald T. Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>, Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> 


A new version of I-D, draft-alvestrand-sdp-header-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Harald Alvestrand and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-alvestrand-sdp-header
Revision:	00
Title:		The SDP RTCP Extension
Document date:	2014-04-01
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		5
URL:            http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-alvestrand-sdp-header-00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-alvestrand-sdp-header/
Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-alvestrand-sdp-header-00


Abstract:
   This document specifies an RTCP extension that allows SDP information
   to be carried over an RTP session.  This extension obivates the need
   for a separate negotiation channel, thereby avoiding the risk of
   desynchronization between the SDP session description and the RTP
   session state.


                                                                                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


--------------000402060009020507060602-- From nobody Tue Apr 1 16:41:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977511A002A for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 16:41:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1YNJRmltnHW9 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 16:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.117]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1101A0028 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 16:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF3197C50FD for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2014 01:41:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QVbc9lz7wTeF for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2014 01:41:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.20.1.105] (114.red-80-28-236.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net [80.28.236.114]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3D57E7C50FB for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2014 01:41:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <533B4EA3.9050304@alvestrand.no> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 01:41:23 +0200 From: Harald Alvestrand User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: avt@ietf.org References: <533530AA.2020806@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <533530AA.2020806@ericsson.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/SQM6cuE50RbNbe7oS0o3p07Mvuk Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Security/Performance issue in circuit breakers X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 23:41:35 -0000 I don't think I understand this problem. But refusing to consider SDP valid that results in RTCP intervals longer than 5 seconds sounds like a Good Thing to me. On 03/28/2014 09:19 AM, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > Hi, > > In a discussion in the RTCWEB around consent and circuit breakers I made > a realization that there exist a significant issue in circuit breakers > that isn't document nor dealt with. > > This has to do with the configuration of the RTCP bandwidth. If a > malicious user of circuit breakers wants to make it really inefficient > one can achieve that by configuring the RTCP bandwidth really low. So > assuming b=RR and b=RS exists in an implementation that has circuit > breakers. The method for making it inefficient and not affect the > traffic pattern is to set the RTCP bandwidth really low. Using an RR=1 > bps would mean that the Td deterministic reporting interval would be ~45 > min. Thus, putting all of these limits on traffic to be no reactive > until roughly 2-3 reporting interval, i.e. 1.5-2.25 hours have passed. > Which is longer duration than many real-time interactive media sessions > are to start with. > > I think we need to ensure that RTCP reporting is not happening less > often than what the fixed minimal interval (5s) will mean. Thus, I see > that including circuit breaker would require a hard requirement that one > configure the RTCP bandwidth to allow for at least each SSRC reporting > each 5 seconds. > > This also needs to go into the security consideration section to make > clear that this is an issue. > > Cheers > > Magnus Westerlund > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Services, Media and Network features, Ericsson Research EAB/TXM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 > Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance > avt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt -- Surveillance is pervasive. Go Dark. From nobody Tue Apr 1 21:28:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F7F51A0119 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 21:28:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bmrhAqYpnC10 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 21:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe14:43:76:96:62:80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 921481A0118 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 21:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.60]) by qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id ksNw1n0021HzFnQ58sUB3P; Wed, 02 Apr 2014 04:28:11 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([24.34.72.61]) by omta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id ksTq1n0031KKtkw3asTv8P; Wed, 02 Apr 2014 04:28:11 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s324Qn2d022742; Wed, 2 Apr 2014 00:27:18 -0400 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id s324QkF6022738; Wed, 2 Apr 2014 00:26:46 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 00:26:46 -0400 Message-Id: <201404020426.s324QkF6022738@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: Harald Alvestrand In-reply-to: <533B48E9.5050501@alvestrand.no> (harald@alvestrand.no) References: <20140401224948.4662.48077.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <533B48E9.5050501@alvestrand.no> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1396412891; bh=DMjcfu5IQSXpemEi+gsK848IRLOoZXKuvpvkvM+4Awc=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Date:Message-Id:From:To: Subject; b=AlTHGsEmIs4ivKvR3nCmZRAzZh4vrTVKx7uEfKCNeWGHfwHbbV37SlZebcHS6ycn+ 4gi8LIhQRsrGmb0MSvEd9+NW3T/F7zg+5h+wrc2nJZN2QXJYcOAI1tcWdA06eBUaeS WKMxTYUqycgnSE+WdemW0yj3zTamyHBcWKHOp4riEsqN+FPBU+yNUzftndqkIvf3KS S39/rsDhFp7YtjATtxpDwfzRxzqneuEIPJ4z1cij1Vo6jgZyck1PgEciCMfj+ASEll VDAhEqRfTt7dG2DelpIziIzzXb3OPN7LFs6wUnOtpflh214GkCqzUxIrzRWGs4/ApA Dl59y+ADjZ+Tg== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/uCyuTZNiIBPXsntC9-oKWGD9I-o Cc: avt@ietf.org Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-alvestrand-sdp-header-00.txt X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 04:28:22 -0000 > From: Harald Alvestrand > > Some of the issues we have been having with the relationship between SDP > and RTP may be illuminated by studying the missive below. > > Name: draft-alvestrand-sdp-header > Revision: 00 > Title: The SDP RTCP Extension > Document date: 2014-04-01 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 5 > URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-alvestrand-sdp-header-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-alvestrand-sdp-header/ > Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-alvestrand-sdp-header-00 Clearly, this needs to be integrated with WebRTC! Dale From nobody Fri Apr 4 02:37:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1351A043C for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 02:37:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.24 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.24 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3ut2HOtCXX4n for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 02:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg20.mgmt.ericsson.se (sessmg20.ericsson.net [193.180.251.50]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE181A044A for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 02:37:48 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb32-b7fe98e0000034f3-29-533e7d663834 Received: from ESESSHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg20.mgmt.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 29.4C.13555.66D7E335; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 11:37:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB307.ericsson.se ([169.254.7.185]) by ESESSHC006.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 11:37:42 +0200 From: John Mattsson To: "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [AVTCORE] I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHPTbHqYA0+4J/QFkaFglVygy3scZr8rzOAgASIoQA= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 09:37:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20140401135432.22732.42412.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <533ACC0F.9060103@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <533ACC0F.9060103@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.19] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <99F0D2579FEE7046A4AEE844C6245B18@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW56rV2wwfJ3QhYve1ayOzB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr4++beewFFwwrNjR8Y29gXGPQxcjJISFgIrF/w1I2CFtM4sK9 9UA2F4eQwElGiW3HepkhnMWMEv/OrmYHqWITMJCYu6cBrENEQFGi9dpnRhBbWMBTYuepKaxd jBxAcS+JXVPkIUwridNNViAVLAIqEl92dIFV8wqYS9y8uYcJxBYSSJZo2NbNDFLOKaAjcX62 AEiYEeic76fWgJUwC4hL3HoynwniTAGJJXvOM0PYohIvH/9jBbFFBfQk7j2aywIRV5Rof9rA CDKSWUBTYv0ufYgx1hLXZmxlhbAVJaZ0P2SHuEZQ4uTMJywTGMVnIdk2C6F7FpLuWUi6ZyHp XsDIuopRsji1uDg33chALzc9t0QvtSgzubg4P0+vOHUTIzC2Dm75bbSD8eQe+0OM0hwsSuK8 11lrgoQE0hNLUrNTUwtSi+KLSnNSiw8xMnFwSjUwJi1tO3LfUNtvKsO7jZEr3DRuM3z5Wjun 3Lo3n29mk+GVEAVn4fK9W/748lzYzOsqf2FVYHHhsTPaU++65SxSPGptZKb26JLeTtMj9x/q ceuuEy/pWPo699jn3QHdU6KFvk3+qdk4v+/t39yl1tZMYi0pU1W48vTEM6/ns/fy31pwsnpD 89lwJZbijERDLeai4kQADyyJSnsCAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/T3t7szJ1zfntRKaVX6ZdzUiFAKg Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11.txt X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 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Message-ID: References: <20140401135432.22732.42412.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <533ACC0F.9060103@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.18] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje7qI3bBBicXKlq87FnJ7sDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujCtfeAvOBFc8n3adrYFxR2AXIyeHhICJxOL26WwQtpjEhXvr gWwuDiGBw4wSv38ehHIWM0rc3/COBaSKTcBAYu6eBrAOEQFFidZrnxlBbGEBT4mdp6awdjFy AMW9JHZNkYcocZK4+n8dE4jNIqAicfTKVLByXgFziZ3vp0LN72eUOHD2AitIglPAQuLskx3M IDYj0EXfT60Ba2YWEJe49WQ+E8SlAhJL9pxnhrBFJV4+/gfWKyqgJ3Hv0VwWiLiixMdX+xhB 7mEW0JRYv0sfYoy1xOXmi+wQtqLElO6H7BD3CEqcnPmEZQKj+Cwk22YhdM9C0j0LSfcsJN0L GFlXMbLnJmbmpJcbbmIExs7BLb91dzCeOidyiFGag0VJnPfDW+cgIYH0xJLU7NTUgtSi+KLS 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LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KPj4NCj4+X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18NCj4+QXVkaW8vVmlkZW8gVHJhbnNwb3J0IENvcmUgTWFpbnRlbmFuY2UNCj4+ YXZ0QGlldGYub3JnDQo+Pmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYXZ0 DQo+DQoNCg== From nobody Fri Apr 4 09:51:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62F7E1A022A for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 09:51:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.851 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NtC7f_6fizD0 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 09:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.ericsson.se (mailgw1.ericsson.se [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 610231A024F for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 09:51:34 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-b7f328e0000012ab-04-533ee311b6b6 Received: from ESESSHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw1.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 87.49.04779.113EE335; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 18:51:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB307.ericsson.se ([169.254.7.185]) by ESESSHC008.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.42]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 18:51:29 +0200 From: John Mattsson To: Dan Wing , "avt@ietf.org WG" Thread-Topic: [AVTCORE] EKT update, draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-ekt-02 Thread-Index: AQHPKeUjc70A7S6qFESkKLDF/6753psB+KCA Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 16:51:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.146] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <22B070B74EAE5B4C8836BEFF93B4AF62@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja7gY7tgg0tHhS1e9qxktzjZ+YbJ 4uK1h0wOzB5Tfm9k9Viy5CeTx5fLn9kCmKO4bFJSczLLUov07RK4Mn52bGYteNTIWPFhdmID 4466LkZODgkBE4kr518xQ9hiEhfurWfrYuTiEBI4zCjxbXoPlLOYUeLIr1mMIFVsAgYSc/c0 sIHYIgIOEhcW3wDrZhZIlNh69QB7FyMHh7CAo8S1mzUgpoiAk8SsFbYQppHE19UWIMUsAioS F59PZwWxeQXMJaZ2HmYHsYUEbCSOnb3LBFLOKWAr8fCcPEiYEeiy76fWMEHsEZe49WQ+E8TF AhJL9pyHul5U4uXjf2AjRQX0JO49mssCEVeS+LHhEgvISGYBTYn1u/QhTGuJh7MsICYqSkzp fsgOcYygxMmZT1gmMErMQrJsFkLzLITmWUiaZyFpXsDIuoqRPTcxMye93HATIzDiDm75rbuD 8dQ5kUOM0hwsSuK8H946BwkJpCeWpGanphakFsUXleakFh9iZOLglGpgZKntfPi2PmvVk/Sb AbHRG65qyD1sOqr98Oqc5Spp1fbr869wfzdOC404E70lqqJqwk/9Dxe+LlgcHWO3WyAhfR/z tiNVjbuaJqjP71l73CFViDGsdPGevQZPF/5auXxqypykuLZJYRLpyryfrvZ0VGg5sN3icuSu LOOaseQ9Z7DQKvaJCi5rlViKMxINtZiLihMB2mdF/oYCAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/Q2e9ILjag90MuG4wjLzzaYuYN-E Cc: "" Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] EKT update, draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-ekt-02 X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 16:51:53 -0000 SSB0aGluayB0aGUgY2hhbmdlcyBtYWRlIHRvIDAyIHNlZW1zIGdvb2QsIEkgaGF2ZSBub3QgaGFk IHRpbWUgdG8gY2hlY2sNCnRoZW0gaW4gZGV0YWlsLg0KDQpJIGhhdmUgc29tZSBjb21tZW50cyBv biBTZWN0aW9uIDMg4oCcVXNlIG9mIEVLVCB3aXRoIFNEUCBTZWN1cml0eQ0KRGVzY3JpcHRpb27i gJ0NCg0KLSBTZWVtcyB0byBiZSB1bmNsZWFyIGlmIHlvdSBjYW4gbWl4IEVLVCB3aXRoIG5vbi1F S1QuDQotIEJvdGgg4oCcRUtU4oCdIGFuZCDigJxFS1RfQ2lwaGVy4oCdIHNlZW1zIHRvIGJlIGNh bGxlZCBTRFAgc2Vzc2lvbiBwYXJhbWV0ZXJzLg0KU29tZXRpbWVzIOKAnEVLVCBzZXNzaW9uIHBh cmFtZXRlcnPigJ0gYW5kIOKAnEVLVCBwYXJhbWV0ZXJz4oCdIGlzIHVzZWQuIEkgdGhpbmsNCnRo ZSB0ZXJtaW5vbG9neSBuZWVkcyBjb25zaXN0ZW5jeS4NCi0gU2hvdWxkIFNERVNDIGFsd2F5cyBu ZWdvdGlhdGUgZGlmZmVyZW50IEVLVCBrZXlzIGluIHRoZSBzZW5kIGFuZCByZWNlaXZlDQpkaXJl 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cm9iaW4NCj58ICBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBTU1JDcywgYnV0IHRoaXMgd291bGQgcmVxdWlyZSBzZXZl cmFsIFNSVENQIHBhY2tldHMsDQo+fCAgZnVydGhlciBkZWxheWluZyByZWNlaXB0IG9mIEVLVCBv dmVyIFJUQ1AuICBUaGlzIGltcGFjdCBvZiBSVFANCj58ICB0cmFuc2xhdG9ycyBhbmQgbWl4ZXJz LCBhbmQgdGhlIGluYWJpbGl0eSB0byByZWFsaWJseSBkZXRlcm1pbmUgYW4NCj58ICBSVFAgdHJh bnNsYXRvciBvciBtaXhlciBtaWdodCBiZSBpbnZvbHZlZCBpbiBhbiBSVFAgc2Vzc2lvbiwgcHJv dmlkZXMNCj58ICBmdXJ0aGVyIGluY2VudGl2ZSB0byBzZW5kIEVLVCBvdmVyIFJUUC4NCj4NCj4t ZA0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fDQo+QXVkaW8vVmlkZW8gVHJhbnNwb3J0IENvcmUgTWFpbnRlbmFuY2UNCj5hdnRAaWV0 Zi5vcmcNCj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2F2dA0KDQo= From nobody Fri Apr 4 10:50:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5CB1A02D8 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 10:50:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qGslllR5Y_q9 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 10:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x231.google.com (mail-wg0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21AB21A0283 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 10:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f49.google.com with SMTP id a1so3905992wgh.32 for ; Fri, 04 Apr 2014 10:50:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=chi3LzCJXq91yFkRh6jQXBmL8VYKrocVIis0UbbxpbU=; b=aK+VQ1T8VH1aNzjyyvndnovaoFt8zJqeP5KDlX/17yivItEE0b0BwHwpF3RmbPgkyz WNlOiqIpx1SCw0cBbl8/QpPzKUXQEEMX9jnqluXPJr9KFf8lu++tX2GnlpONs2aGd+UJ Wx1B+l+vfbGQ+Fbk6xOdOMdfKIlILlQzUPFx/gNf/pTBjlOzkGn45YoVHyTcAvHQuvky 3Ov4UXFSPj9MJP4IHMM40tylOPbzeHu7XwpBTUGEUSQOIqpE78cBKxkP6nVN2QP49tgj ZHVSioxdvYfd86cl515AkVgr0Dl3eBXsw7zks9ta04x2/RAF/uMCk28pRhgJDHmOXau7 LaaQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.192.132 with SMTP id hg4mr22069675wjc.28.1396633808099; Fri, 04 Apr 2014 10:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.147.10 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 10:50:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 10:50:08 -0700 Message-ID: From: Martin Thomson To: John Mattsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/I5QqFoXE-JiMhQp2qpOMQKAAj-8 Cc: "" , "avt@ietf.org WG" , Dan Wing Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] EKT update, draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-ekt-02 X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 17:50:18 -0000 On 4 April 2014 09:51, John Mattsson wrote: > - Should SDESC always negotiate different EKT keys in the send and receive > direction? Strictly speaking, no, the SSRC should be sufficient to distinguish cases. But it's probably a good practice, in case you have an SSRC collision, causing the same key stream to be reused (which is bad). Unless you are in a multi-party session with a single key, noting that then you probably have an even higher chance of SSRC collision. From nobody Tue Apr 8 08:14:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0194A1A0404 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2014 08:14:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.15 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IZEH4jqEa3jx for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2014 08:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.ericsson.se (mailgw1.ericsson.se [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72C4A1A044B for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2014 08:14:01 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-b7f328e0000012ab-06-53441238ea8c Received: from ESESSHC017.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw1.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 1C.75.04779.83214435; Tue, 8 Apr 2014 17:14:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB305.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.212]) by ESESSHC017.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.69]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Tue, 8 Apr 2014 17:13:59 +0200 From: Yi Cheng To: "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [AVTCORE] comments on draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-ekt-02 Thread-Index: Ac9TPQPs5Smjah/3TKev1fYjz+LnUA== Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 15:13:59 +0000 Message-ID: <9D746FA33933A44198056E8E591AAB5B1051FBF4@ESESSMB305.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.16] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9D746FA33933A44198056E8E591AAB5B1051FBF4ESESSMB305erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrKLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja6FkEuwwfGJOhYve1ayOzB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr4+NT6YJj/hWzDi5haWDscu9i5OCQEDCR2PZRpIuRE8gUk7hw bz1bFyMXh5DAYUaJ0+sXskI4ixklDuxdwARSxSagJvH33mtWEFtEQFGi9dpnRhBbWMBWYkXb ekaIuJNE78a57BC2nsSpTz+YQWwWARWJM68+gtXwCvhKfJlyHWwmI9Dm76fWgNnMAuISt57M Z4K4SEBiyZ7zzBC2qMTLx/9YIWxFiZ1n25kh6vMl5lxrYIeYKShxcuYTlgmMQrOQjJqFpGwW kjKIuI7Egt2f2CBsbYllC18zw9hnDjxmQhZfwMi+ipE9NzEzJ73ccBMjMOgPbvmtu4Px1DmR Q4zSHCxK4rwf3joHCQmkJ5akZqemFqQWxReV5qQWH2Jk4uCUamC045VcEC8dbm57QrQqTbZ4 4TevrwGSHyf5MpyOWNy0OLPmwE23R1/uqfG4xcdeMfBdsY3nqUG65y9JTsmi+ym333o9E0tt uxWauvO1ib7vGXalJLv5MssFVujmr3Mp27JXwyngsfBF7pUrm8VUrK83FrtmHK+ZfSpKkV+z qOAw60bnBN1flUosxRmJhlrMRcWJAAElbFtIAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/3dsxoLrl25MpdcEsh_LvBCaICIk Subject: [AVTCORE] comments on draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-ekt-02 X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 15:14:22 -0000 --_000_9D746FA33933A44198056E8E591AAB5B1051FBF4ESESSMB305erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Here are some comments on draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-ekt-02: 2.2.1. last paragraph "Implementation note: Because of the format of the Full EKT Field, a packet containing the Full EKT Field MUST be sent when the ROC changes (i.e= ., every 2^32 packets)." The ROC changes every 2^16 packets, not every 2^32 packets 2.5. the 3rd paragraph "The Full EKT Field is appended to the SRTP or SRTCP payload and is 42, 50, or 58 octets long for AES-128, AES-192, or AES-192, respectively..." Should be "...42, 50, or 58 octets long for AES-128, AES-192, or AES-256 re= spectively..." 2.6. the 1st paragraph "A system using EKT has the SRTP keys distributed with EKT, rather than with call signaling. This means a receiver can immediately decrypt an SRTP (or SRTCP packet) using that new key, provided the SRTP packet (or SRTCP packet) also contains the EKT key." The SRTP or SRTCP packet does not contain the EKT key which is a key encryp= ting key (as stated in section 2), rather the encrypted SRTP master key. Th= e same goes for the 4th paragraph "...Inclusion of that Full EKT Field can = be stopped early if the sender determines all receivers have received the new EKT key...". Best regards, Yi Cheng Ericsson Research --_000_9D746FA33933A44198056E8E591AAB5B1051FBF4ESESSMB305erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

Here are some comments on draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-ek= t-02:

 

2.2.1. last paragraph

“= ;Implementation note: Because of the forma= t of the Full EKT Field, a

packet containing the Full EKT Field MUST be sent when the ROC cha= nges (i.e., every 2^32 packets).”

The RO= C changes every 2^16 packets, not every 2^32 packets

&= nbsp;

2.5. t= he 3rd paragraph

“The Full EKT Field is appended to the SRTP or SRTCP payload= and is

42, 50, or 58 octets long for AES-128, AES-192, or AES-192,

respectively…”

Should= be “…42, 50, or 58 octets long for AES-128, AES-192, or AES-25= 6 respectively…”

&nb= sp;

2.6. the 1st paragraph<= o:p>

“A system using EKT has the SRTP keys distribut= ed with EKT, rather

   than with call signaling.  This means a receiver= can immediately

   decrypt an SRTP (or SRTCP packet) using that new key,= provided the

   SRTP packet (= or SRTCP packet) also contains the EKT key.”

The SRT=
P or SRTCP packet does not contain the EKT key which is a key encrypting ke=
y (as stated in section 2), rather the encrypted SRTP mas=
ter key. The same goes for the 4th paragraph “…Inclusion of that Full EKT Field can be

   stopped early if the sender determines all receivers = have received

   the new EKT k= ey…”.  

 =

Best regard= s,

Yi Cheng

Ericsson Re= search

 

--_000_9D746FA33933A44198056E8E591AAB5B1051FBF4ESESSMB305erics_-- From nobody Mon Apr 14 21:59:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8151A1A0765; Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:59:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.174 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.174 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.272, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uO0xdpa7L3CX; Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FC3D1A072D; Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 6BE661801C6; Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:58:37 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 6000:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Message-Id: <20140415045837.6BE661801C6@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/oOWd5HxQpDR-6IbY-qQC48Gu4jY Cc: drafts-update-ref@iana.org, avt@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [AVTCORE] RFC 7201 on Options for Securing RTP Sessions X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 04:59:14 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 7201 Title: Options for Securing RTP Sessions Author: M. Westerlund, C. Perkins Status: Informational Stream: IETF Date: April 2014 Mailbox: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, csp@csperkins.org Pages: 37 Characters: 92462 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-security-options-10.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7201.txt The Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP) is used in a large number of different application domains and environments. This heterogeneity implies that different security mechanisms are needed to provide services such as confidentiality, integrity, and source authentication of RTP and RTP Control Protocol (RTCP) packets suitable for the various environments. The range of solutions makes it difficult for RTP-based application developers to pick the most suitable mechanism. This document provides an overview of a number of security solutions for RTP and gives guidance for developers on how to choose the appropriate security mechanism. This document is a product of the Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance Working Group of the IETF. INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce http://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From nobody Mon Apr 14 21:59:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253291A06A3; Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:59:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.174 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.174 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.272, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PqqH_9vwHKT3; Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 052DF1A074E; Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 4A8881801CF; Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:58:54 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 6000:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Message-Id: <20140415045854.4A8881801CF@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:58:54 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/GTW4gVxhBpiteeXlBqMnkxCLnzc Cc: drafts-update-ref@iana.org, avt@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [AVTCORE] RFC 7202 on Securing the RTP Framework: Why RTP Does Not Mandate a Single Media Security Solution X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 04:59:27 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 7202 Title: Securing the RTP Framework: Why RTP Does Not Mandate a Single Media Security Solution Author: C. Perkins, M. Westerlund Status: Informational Stream: IETF Date: April 2014 Mailbox: csp@csperkins.org, magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com Pages: 10 Characters: 23428 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-mandatory-16.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7202.txt This memo discusses the problem of securing real-time multimedia sessions. It also explains why the Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP) and the associated RTP Control Protocol (RTCP) do not mandate a single media security mechanism. This is relevant for designers and reviewers of future RTP extensions to ensure that appropriate security mechanisms are mandated and that any such mechanisms are specified in a manner that conforms with the RTP architecture. This document is a product of the Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance Working Group of the IETF. INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce http://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From nobody Tue Apr 22 04:44:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67EF61A03B6 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 04:44:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.472 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.472 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.272] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RFWsYK-x31NP for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 04:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emvm-gh1-uea09.nsa.gov (emvm-gh1-uea09.nsa.gov [63.239.67.10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8CE11A03A6 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 04:44:17 -0700 (PDT) X-TM-IMSS-Message-ID: Received: from MSHT-GH1-UEA01.corp.nsa.gov ([10.215.227.18]) by nsa.gov ([63.239.67.10]) with ESMTP (TREND IMSS SMTP Service 7.1; TLSv1/SSLv3 AES128-SHA (128/128)) id e1d48d9300041693 ; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 07:46:27 -0400 Received: from MSMR-GH1-UEA07.corp.nsa.gov (10.215.224.5) by MSHT-GH1-UEA01.corp.nsa.gov (10.215.227.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.342.3; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 07:44:11 -0400 Received: from MSMR-GH1-UEA03.corp.nsa.gov ([10.215.224.3]) by MSMR-GH1-UEA07.corp.nsa.gov ([10.215.224.5]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 07:44:10 -0400 From: "Igoe, Kevin M." To: "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [AVTCORE] I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHPTbHspUAtozygJEipKqGk6BItqZr9E8iAgARm7oCAAFT1AIASt6KQgAkcgNA= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 11:44:09 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4AAD4B5304AB44A6BA85173B4675CABAA34EF5@MSMR-GH1-UEA03.corp.nsa.gov> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.215.224.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/MyIq1d5WEJ1gdT_WSVJy_Rkd0nA Subject: [AVTCORE] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11.txt X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 11:44:23 -0000 QXBvbG9naWVzIHRvIHRoZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QuICBBcHBhcmVudGx5IHdoZW4gSSBoaXQgInJl 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Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.174 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.174 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.272, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NBzwspMITzyt for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 382161A02AC for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 290D61801A5; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:02:55 -0700 (PDT) To: mcgrew@cisco.com, ekr@rtfm.com, rlb@ipv.sx, alissa@cooperw.in, keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com, roni.even@mail01.huawei.com X-PHP-Originating-Script: 6000:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Message-Id: <20140422230255.290D61801A5@rfc-editor.org> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:02:55 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/OsykQFNTqoVcYmy3YVa8CSqj4yM Cc: avt@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [AVTCORE] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5764 (3971) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 23:03:51 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC5764, "Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS) Extension to Establish Keys for the Secure Real-time Transport Protocol (SRTP)". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=5764&eid=3971 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Martin Thomson Section: 4.1.3 Original Text ------------- If the client detects a nonzero-length MKI in the server's response that is different than the one the client offered, then the client MUST abort the handshake and SHOULD send an invalid_parameter alert. Corrected Text -------------- If the client detects a nonzero-length MKI in the server's response that is different than the one the client offered, then the client MUST abort the handshake and SHOULD send an illegal_parameter alert. Notes ----- invalid_parameter isn't defined anywhere; this probably means illegal_parameter(47), which is defined in RFC 5246. Instructions: ------------- This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC5764 (draft-ietf-avt-dtls-srtp-07) -------------------------------------- Title : Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS) Extension to Establish Keys for the Secure Real-time Transport Protocol (SRTP) Publication Date : May 2010 Author(s) : D. McGrew, E. Rescorla Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Audio/Video Transport Area : Real-time Applications and Infrastructure Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Wed Apr 23 08:10:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB7C91A064B for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 08:11:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FROM_12LTRDOM=0.099, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.272] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I0cM-JQOKo57 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 08:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from babelmonkeys.de (babelmonkeys.de [IPv6:2a02:d40:3:1:10a1:5eff:fe52:509]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 726A81A0552 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 08:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xdsl-87-79-85-93.netcologne.de ([87.79.85.93] helo=[192.168.0.140]) by babelmonkeys.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WccM1-0007S9-TT for avt@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2014 17:11:25 +0200 Message-ID: <53568695.7090509@babelmonkeys.de> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 17:11:17 +0200 From: Florian Zeitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: avt@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/q2RqNhPvQb5FcJfQrNklD4uFbI0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 08:10:29 -0700 Subject: [AVTCORE] Criticism on draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 15:11:39 -0000 Hello, I'd like to call this working group's attention to the fact that yesterday an article in german language[1] was published, harshly criticising draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11. The draft is therein called the NSA's newest attempt at weakening internet security. The criticism is largely based on Niels Ferguson's 2005 paper "Authentication weaknesses in GCM"[2]. In particular the points I can identify are: Repeated from Ferguson's paper * GCM should no longer be used * if GCM has to be used, the authentication tag should be 128-bit (the draft currently mandates implementation of the 64-bit variant, the others are purely optional) * the paper uses telephony as an example in it's "A disastrous scenario" section. Yet this draft recommends GCM for telephony Attributed to Michael Kafka, a "security expert" from Vienna: * mixing confidentiality and authentication makes attacks easier * in practice performance gains are negligible on modern smartphones The article also insinuates that David McGrew is deliberately co-authoring a draft he knows to be insecure, somehow under the pressure of the NSA. While I do not necessarily personally agree with the criticism, or the conclusions, I would like this working group and the authors to address it in some way. Regards, Florian Zeitz [1] http://fm4.orf.at/stories/1737330/ [2] http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/toolkit/BCM/documents/comments/CWC-GCM/Ferguson2.pdf From nobody Thu Apr 24 07:51:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143B11A033D for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 07:51:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zkKVPzCB2LtV for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 07:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 236FB1A031E for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 07:51:36 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f798a6d000005ede-ac-535924f22322 Received: from ESESSHC009.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id D9.64.24286.2F429535; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:51:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.174.1; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:51:29 +0200 Message-ID: <535924F1.8000709@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:51:29 +0200 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Florian Zeitz , References: <53568695.7090509@babelmonkeys.de> In-Reply-To: <53568695.7090509@babelmonkeys.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrCLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje4nlchgg+1/xS1e9qxkt7g3fz6r A5PHhN5WRo8lS34yBTBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGU87zjAUnBcqmLKg01MDYzbRLsYOTkkBEwk /jzYxQhhi0lcuLeerYuRi0NI4CijxJwt09khnOWMEvvfNbCAVPEKaEt8nT8FzGYRUJU4fnwG G4jNJmAhcfNHI5gtKhAssXTOYqh6QYmTM5+A2SICVhI9dw4zgdjCAs4St1o2AC3gAFqgJ/H8 dilImFNAX+LZ3SnMIGEJAXGJnsYgkDAzUMWUqy2MELa8RPPW2cwgthDQNQ1NHawTGAVnIVk2 C0nLLCQtCxiZVzGKFqcWJ+WmGxnrpRZlJhcX5+fp5aWWbGIEBuvBLb9VdzBefuN4iFGAg1GJ h5dNzS9YiDWxrLgy9xCjNAeLkjjvl1s+wUIC6YklqdmpqQWpRfFFpTmpxYcYmTg4pRoY07I2 ykfPWuZsM6uGUXZNl6Hwg9etrBd9tF482WW8/0zDl6lr2qUORV4qZwhpjTMs9TDXi5uxcYFO 80MG8aagp4zd8wL8HVaa/Gk+5L0ph5H3zPnMmFcMoc3P5ljNO9d5Oj99Beel+RYdN+9ccfP5 c8P0yJ6jR023n3+kkW3IN8c8Zw7r6hweJZbijERDLeai4kQAg1QdkjcCAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/DXVWEIbhezEqFjOw1E9fzlxGxOE Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Criticism on draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 14:51:40 -0000 Florian, I would like to point out one factual error in your criticism: The draft does mandate support for the longest 128 bit authentication tag if one support the cipher at all. This is a quote from Section 13.1: Any implementation of AES-GCM SRTP MUST support both AEAD_AES_128_GCM and AEAD_AES_256_GCM (the versions with 16 octet AEAD authentication tags), and it MAY support the four other variants shown in table 1. Similarly from 13.2 for AES-CCM Any implementation of AES-CCM SRTP/SRTCP MUST support both AEAD_AES_128_CCM and AEAD_AES_256_CCM (the versions with 16 octet AEAD authentication tags), and MAY support the other four variants. But, to be fair this was changed very recently. I would also note that the draft's security consideration section do discuss the shorter than authentication tag length of actual authentication protection for AES-GCM. It is up to the WG to discuss if it thinks there should be any changes based on your input. And I have to ask you what you think should be the action based on your personal opinion. Cheers Magnus Westerlund WG chair On 2014-04-22 17:11, Florian Zeitz wrote: > Hello, > > I'd like to call this working group's attention to the fact that > yesterday an article in german language[1] was published, harshly > criticising draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11. > > The draft is therein called the NSA's newest attempt at weakening > internet security. > The criticism is largely based on Niels Ferguson's 2005 paper > "Authentication weaknesses in GCM"[2]. > > In particular the points I can identify are: > > Repeated from Ferguson's paper > * GCM should no longer be used > * if GCM has to be used, the authentication tag should be 128-bit > (the draft currently mandates implementation of the 64-bit > variant, the others are purely optional) > * the paper uses telephony as an example in it's "A disastrous scenario" > section. Yet this draft recommends GCM for telephony > > Attributed to Michael Kafka, a "security expert" from Vienna: > * mixing confidentiality and authentication makes attacks easier > * in practice performance gains are negligible on modern smartphones > > The article also insinuates that David McGrew is deliberately > co-authoring a draft he knows to be insecure, somehow under the pressure > of the NSA. > > While I do not necessarily personally agree with the criticism, or the > conclusions, I would like this working group and the authors to address > it in some way. > > Regards, > Florian Zeitz > > [1] http://fm4.orf.at/stories/1737330/ > [2] > http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/toolkit/BCM/documents/comments/CWC-GCM/Ferguson2.pdf > > _______________________________________________ > Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance > avt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt > > -- Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Services, Media and Network features, Ericsson Research EAB/TXM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Apr 24 16:21:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781C51A02A1 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:21:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.822 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.822 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.272] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p-ZrtVN2LYPB for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from babelmonkeys.de (babelmonkeys.de [IPv6:2a02:d40:3:1:10a1:5eff:fe52:509]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BF0A1A0294 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xdsl-87-79-136-79.netcologne.de ([87.79.136.79] helo=[192.168.0.140]) by babelmonkeys.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WdSx3-0002GL-UW; Fri, 25 Apr 2014 01:21:10 +0200 Message-ID: <53599C5D.1020206@babelmonkeys.de> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 01:21:01 +0200 From: Florian Zeitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Magnus Westerlund , avt@ietf.org References: <53568695.7090509@babelmonkeys.de> <535924F1.8000709@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <535924F1.8000709@ericsson.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/9lFbb4EjOOZnLs54UgxIuiVNFyo Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Criticism on draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 23:21:16 -0000 On 24.04.2014 16:51, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > Florian, > Hello Magnus, > I would like to point out one factual error in your criticism: > > The draft does mandate support for the longest 128 bit authentication > tag if one support the cipher at all. This is a quote from Section 13.1: > > Any implementation of AES-GCM SRTP MUST support both AEAD_AES_128_GCM > and AEAD_AES_256_GCM (the versions with 16 octet AEAD authentication > tags), and it MAY support the four other variants shown in table 1. > > Similarly from 13.2 for AES-CCM > > Any implementation of AES-CCM SRTP/SRTCP MUST support both > AEAD_AES_128_CCM and AEAD_AES_256_CCM (the versions with 16 octet > AEAD authentication tags), and MAY support the other four variants. > > But, to be fair this was changed very recently. > I'm admittedly a bit irritated, by you calling this my criticism. Particularly after having pointed out I do not fully agree with it, but am merely the messenger. The parenthetical you refer to is my own analysis however. And in fact it does appear I accidentally read the -10 version of the draft. I do apologize for that mistake. > I would also note that the draft's security consideration section do > discuss the shorter than authentication tag length of actual > authentication protection for AES-GCM. > > It is up to the WG to discuss if it thinks there should be any changes > based on your input. And I have to ask you what you think should be the > action based on your personal opinion. > I suspect you might be wondering why I'm bringing this up if I don't fully agree with the criticism. The reason is quite simply that I still believe in the IETF culture. In particular I believe that, unlike what many media outlets are claiming recently, the IETF and its WGs are fully capable of appropriately dealing with criticism, and not letting themselves gag by any government agency. (I.e. in some way I'm trying to prove a point here) However, dealing with criticism is only possible, when it is actually expressed towards the WG, which apparently neither Erich Möchel nor Michael Kafka found necessary. I see two ways to address this: Either the WG agrees with the criticism, the logical consequence of which would be removing GCM from the draft. Or the authors/WG explain why they believe this draft to be reasonably secure, despite the criticism, and proceed with the current wording. David McGrew choose the second option, and I'm personally content with that. Hearing a second opinion from other WG members would be appreciated though. Regards Florian Zeitz From nobody Thu Apr 24 23:31:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6148E1A038E for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:08:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.772 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.772 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.272, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DSwwUds3633O for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-3.cisco.com (mtv-iport-3.cisco.com [173.36.130.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7EEF1A03E1 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:08:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=19190; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1398370124; x=1399579724; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject; bh=pVVvnzU6oHvu9OtFrTZgT3F+GurMQpKffGfYlN/KInU=; b=PccJ1YKfNXcAgRuXj2tkcYod3zOJDS/2A3ZyFlj0hGTFnAhXmjNkaRwz Scbpv7DCI5kIk1HIKBPKxFopsdDohi5HKQY71Xzc+8LCKsrbAgaVLk+hW +Uhopvxnc5iYA1MY2nGelafOXKFjr4N7/aZKUGX4/3/iiLuIj9AFrNXaG w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ak0QAIFuWVOrRDoJ/2dsb2JhbABPCoMGT4lDt06ECoEfFnSCJQEBAQIBbAEMBicDAQIKFhgDAgECAT0OAQwGAgKINQcOy0IXjXcGBAcBPx6EMwSYeYE4hSOLfoNNIYEsAgcXBg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,921,1389744000"; d="scan'208,217";a="108513970" Received: from mtv-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.58.9]) by mtv-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2014 20:08:42 +0000 Received: from [10.0.2.15] (dhcp-10-33-176-74.cisco.com [10.33.176.74]) by mtv-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s3OK8fbJ030091; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 20:08:41 GMT Message-ID: <53596F49.3040004@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:08:41 -0400 From: David McGrew User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20131103 Icedove/17.0.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: avt@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , florob@babelmonkeys.de Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000009040804090203050303" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/odaTmP_orQZ2dNJggKVtbqC83WQ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 23:31:15 -0700 Subject: [AVTCORE] Criticism on draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 20:08:53 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000009040804090203050303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Florian, thanks for calling this to the attention of the list. I had not seen it before, and I had not been contacted by Erich Möchel (the author of the post you cite) or anyone else in regard to these speculations. The post is wrong on many important points; please see more inline: > From: Florian Zeitz > Subject: [AVTCORE] Criticism on draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm > Date: April 22, 2014 at 8:11:17 AM PDT > To: avt@ietf.org > > Hello, > > I'd like to call this working group's attention to the fact that > yesterday an article in german language[1] was published, harshly > criticising draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11. > > The draft is therein called the NSA's newest attempt at weakening > internet security. The criticism is largely based on Niels Ferguson's > 2005 paper "Authentication weaknesses in GCM"[2]. > Ferguson's critique refers to the initial submission to NIST on GCM; please note that the submission was later revised and clarified. For background, see the comments on that work in Section 2 of the "GCM update" that was submitted to NIST along with the revised version of that specification back in 2005, which are online at http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/toolkit/BCM/documents/comments/CWC-GCM/gcm-update.pdf The reference on multiple-forgery attacks, which is cited in the NIST submission, is online at https://eprint.iacr.org/2005/161.pdf Also, the NIST specification of GCM, which is the authoritative one, includes guidance on tag lengths that was absent from the version of the specification to which the critique refers. > In particular the points I can identify are: > > Repeated from Ferguson's paper > * GCM should no longer be used > * if GCM has to be used, the authentication tag should be 128-bit (the > draft currently mandates implementation of the 64-bit variant, the > others are purely optional) The statement on tag lengths is wrong, as Magnus recently pointed out on the list. Earlier versions of the draft had 64-bit tags as mandatory to implement and 128-bit tags as optional, but the current version reverses that. We made this change after discussion between the authors, reviewers and the chairs. In more detail: on 11/03, John Mattsson reviewed draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm, and provided comments to Magnus Westerlund, Richard Barnes, Kevin Igoe, and myself. John and Kevin decided that the mandatory-to-implement GCM tag size should be changed to 128 bits. (John, Magnus, Richard and Kevin, please check for Kevin's email on this subject dated 2/19/14). Of course, this is a working group draft and should reflect the consensus of AVTCORE. But it currently has strong mandatory-to-implement options and good guidance on parameter choices, as noted below. > * the paper uses telephony as an example in it's "A disastrous scenario" > section. Yet this draft recommends GCM for telephony > > Attributed to Michael Kafka, a "security expert" from Vienna: > * mixing confidentiality and authentication makes attacks easier This statement is wrong. Authenticated encryption as provided by dedicated algorithms like GCM is widely regarded as better than loosely bound authentication and encryption. To appreciate why a loose binding between authentication and encryption is a bad idea, see for instance the padding oracle attacks against CBC in TLS and other protocols, which are possible because of the loose binding, as first described by Vaudenay and developed in BEAST and Lucky-13. > * in practice performance gains are negligible on modern smartphones > > The article also insinuates that David McGrew is deliberately > co-authoring a draft he knows to be insecure, somehow under the > pressure of the NSA. This is also not true. I'm not under any pressure from the NSA, and the draft provides an adequate level of security. Importantly, the draft very explicitly describes the authentication strength that one can expect from a given choice of tag length, in Section 14.2 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11#section-14.2 It would be disingenuous to suggest that the draft has some sort of hidden weakness regarding authentication strength, as the draft is very clear about the authentication strength one can expect for different parameter choices. For perspective, one should also consider the authentication strength of some existing standards. SDP Security Descriptions (RFC 4568) includes the option of a 32-bit authentication tag http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4568#section-6.2.2 And Secure RTP itself (RFC 3711) allows encryption with *no* authentication. The rationale for this is outlined in Section 7.5 of that RFC, and Section 9.5.1 outlines the security considerations of weak or NULL authentication in SRTP. Just to be clear: the standards cited above provide much less authentication strength than the weakest option in draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm. For more perspective, let's go through an example based on the table in the section of the GCM and CCM draft. Consider an scenario in which a receiver in an audio session with a typical rate of 50 packets per second receives a steady stream of forged messages for an entire day, which are protected by 64-bit GCM authentication tags. If the receiver is patient enough to listen to an entire day's worth of silence (due to the fact that SRTP will discard forged packets), the attacker will have a one in a billion probability of successfully forging a message. Many people would be OK with this level of risk. Others would not, in which case they should use a larger GCM tag size, which they could choose from the table. Or they could use CCM, which is also described in the draft, or SRTP with HMAC authentication. Please also note that the table in the draft takes the conservative approach of assuming that packets are large (and thus per-packet authentication is slightly weaker). I personally favor the use of large authentication tags, both in SRTP and for GCM, but I grudgingly concede that short tags are adequate for some scenarios where bandwidth matters a lot. When SRTP was developed and standardized, around 2003, it was necessary to allow weak authentication options because of bandwidth constraints faced by some RTP users. To put it plainly: some RTP users at the time said that they would not use SRTP if it required long authentication tags. The discussions on this tradeoff took place within AVT and are well documented. In any case, it is reasonable to debate whether or not short authentication tags are ever appropriate, but it would be wrong to claim that any version of draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm described authentication options that are weaker than those already present in the SRTP standard. This is somewhat off topic, but I did participate in some recent work that aims to provide better security within limited bandwidth, which was submitted to the IETF last year and presented at the last IRTF CFRG meeting: "Authenticated Encryption with Replay prOtection (AERO)" http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mcgrew-aero-01 and "Using Authenticated Encryption with Replay prOtection (AERO) in SRTP" http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mcgrew-srtp-aero-01. Some more research needs to be done to refine and validate this approach, but it appears promising as a future direction (in scenarios in which the endpoints can afford some additional computation during encryption). > > While I do not necessarily personally agree with the criticism, or the > conclusions, I would like this working group and the authors to > address it in some way. > Thank you for calling this to the attention of the list, and thus giving me the opportunity to respond to the posting that you referenced. regards, David --------------000009040804090203050303 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Florian,

thanks for calling this to the attention of the list.   I had not seen it before, and I had not been contacted by Erich Möchel (the author of the post you cite) or anyone else in regard to these speculations.  The post is wrong on many important points; please see more inline:

From: Florian Zeitz <florob@babelmonkeys.de>
Subject: [AVTCORE] Criticism on draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm
Date: April 22, 2014 at 8:11:17 AM PDT
To: avt@ietf.org

Hello,

I'd like to call this working group's attention to the fact that yesterday an article in german language[1] was published, harshly criticising draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11.

The draft is therein called the NSA's newest attempt at weakening internet security.  The criticism is largely based on Niels Ferguson's 2005 paper "Authentication weaknesses in GCM"[2].


Ferguson's critique refers to the initial submission to NIST on GCM; please note that the submission was later revised and clarified.  For background, see the comments on that work in Section 2 of the "GCM update" that was submitted to NIST along with the revised version of that specification back in 2005, which are online at http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/toolkit/BCM/documents/comments/CWC-GCM/gcm-update.pdf   The reference on multiple-forgery attacks, which is cited in the NIST submission, is online at https://eprint.iacr.org/2005/161.pdf    Also, the NIST specification of GCM, which is the authoritative one, includes guidance on tag lengths that was absent from the version of the specification to which the critique refers.

In particular the points I can identify are:

Repeated from Ferguson's paper
* GCM should no longer be used
* if GCM has to be used, the authentication tag should be 128-bit (the draft currently mandates implementation of the 64-bit variant, the others are purely optional)

The statement on tag lengths is wrong, as Magnus recently pointed out on the list.  Earlier versions of the draft had 64-bit tags as mandatory to implement and 128-bit tags as optional, but the current version reverses that.  We made this change after discussion between the authors, reviewers and the chairs.   In more detail: on 11/03, John Mattsson reviewed draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm, and provided comments to Magnus Westerlund, Richard Barnes, Kevin Igoe, and myself.   John and Kevin decided that the mandatory-to-implement GCM tag size should be changed to 128 bits.  (John, Magnus, Richard and Kevin, please check for Kevin's email on this subject dated 2/19/14).

Of course, this is a working group draft and should reflect the consensus of AVTCORE.  But it currently has strong mandatory-to-implement options and good guidance on parameter choices, as noted below.  

* the paper uses telephony as an example in it's "A disastrous scenario"
section. Yet this draft recommends GCM for telephony

Attributed to Michael Kafka, a "security expert" from Vienna:
* mixing confidentiality and authentication makes attacks easier

This statement is wrong.  Authenticated encryption as provided by dedicated algorithms like GCM is widely regarded as better than loosely bound authentication and encryption.   To appreciate why a loose binding between authentication and encryption is a bad idea, see for instance the padding oracle attacks against CBC in TLS and other protocols, which are possible because of the loose binding, as first described by Vaudenay and developed in BEAST and Lucky-13.

* in practice performance gains are negligible on modern smartphones

The article also insinuates that David McGrew is deliberately co-authoring a draft he knows to be insecure, somehow under the pressure of the NSA.

This is also not true.  I'm not under any pressure from the NSA, and the draft provides an adequate level of security.  Importantly, the draft very explicitly describes the authentication strength that one can expect from a given choice of tag length, in Section 14.2
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11#section-14.2   It would be disingenuous to suggest that the draft has some sort of hidden weakness regarding authentication strength, as the draft is very clear about the authentication strength one can expect for different parameter choices.

For perspective, one should also consider the authentication strength of some existing standards.  SDP Security Descriptions (RFC 4568) includes the option of a 32-bit authentication tag http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4568#section-6.2.2   And Secure RTP itself (RFC 3711) allows encryption with *no* authentication.  The rationale for this is outlined in Section 7.5 of that RFC, and Section 9.5.1 outlines the security considerations of weak or NULL authentication in SRTP.  Just to be clear: the standards cited above provide much less authentication strength than the weakest option in draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm.

For more perspective, let's go through an example based on the table in the section of the GCM and CCM draft.  Consider an scenario in which a receiver in an audio session with a typical rate of 50 packets per second receives a steady stream of forged messages for an entire day, which are protected by 64-bit GCM authentication tags.  If the receiver is patient enough to listen to an entire day's worth of silence (due to the fact that SRTP will discard forged packets), the attacker will have a one in a billion probability of successfully forging
a message.  Many people would be OK with this level of risk.  Others would not, in which case they should use a larger GCM tag size, which they could choose from the table.  Or they could use CCM, which is also described in the draft, or SRTP with HMAC authentication.   Please also note that the table in the draft takes the conservative approach of assuming that packets are large (and thus per-packet authentication is slightly weaker).

I personally favor the use of large authentication tags, both in SRTP and for GCM, but I grudgingly concede that short tags are adequate for some scenarios where bandwidth matters a lot.  When SRTP was developed and standardized, around 2003, it was necessary to allow weak authentication options because of bandwidth constraints faced by some RTP users.   To put it plainly: some RTP users at the time said that they would not use SRTP if it required long authentication tags.   The discussions on this tradeoff took place within AVT and are well documented.   In any case, it is reasonable to debate whether or not short authentication tags are ever appropriate, but it would be wrong to claim that any version of draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm described authentication options that are weaker than those already present in the SRTP standard. 

This is somewhat off topic, but I did participate in some recent work that aims to provide better security within limited bandwidth, which was submitted to the IETF last year and presented at the last IRTF CFRG meeting: "Authenticated Encryption with Replay prOtection (AERO)" http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mcgrew-aero-01 and "Using Authenticated Encryption with Replay prOtection (AERO) in SRTP" http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mcgrew-srtp-aero-01.  Some more research needs to be done to refine and validate this approach, but it appears promising as a future direction (in scenarios in which the endpoints can afford some additional computation during encryption). 


While I do not necessarily personally agree with the criticism, or the conclusions, I would like this working group and the authors to address it in some way.


Thank you for calling this to the attention of the list, and thus giving me the opportunity to respond to the posting that you referenced.

regards,

David


--------------000009040804090203050303-- From nobody Thu Apr 24 23:44:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E0E1A0328 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 23:44:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aFWHS-xqElFJ for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 23:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A82B1A0412 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 23:44:40 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f791c6d000005f7c-5c-535a0451fa3c Received: from ESESSHC011.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id CF.53.24444.1540A535; Fri, 25 Apr 2014 08:44:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.174.1; Fri, 25 Apr 2014 08:44:32 +0200 Message-ID: <535A0450.5020600@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 08:44:32 +0200 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Florian Zeitz , References: <53568695.7090509@babelmonkeys.de> <535924F1.8000709@ericsson.com> <53599C5D.1020206@babelmonkeys.de> In-Reply-To: <53599C5D.1020206@babelmonkeys.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrKLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW4gS1SwwbJeM4uXPSvZLe7Nn8/q wOQxobeV0WPJkp9MAUxRXDYpqTmZZalF+nYJXBn9E+4zFvxRqHh/4QJbA+NKqS5GTg4JAROJ KWu+M0LYYhIX7q1n62Lk4hASOMoo8X7zCSYIZzmjxO5Hx9hBqngFtCU+//rGAmKzCKhK3Np+ iA3EZhOwkLj5oxHMFhUIllg6ZzELRL2gxMmZT8BsEQEriZ47h5lAbGEBZ4lbLRvAZgoJFEq8 +bwFrIZTQF/i985prF2MHEAXiUv0NAaBhJkF9CSmXG1hhLDlJZq3zmaGaNWWaGjqYJ3AKDgL ybZZSFpmIWlZwMi8ilG0OLU4KTfdyEgvtSgzubg4P08vL7VkEyMwXA9u+W2wg/Hlc8dDjAIc jEo8vMVfIoOFWBPLiitzDzFKc7AoifN+O+seLCSQnliSmp2aWpBaFF9UmpNafIiRiYNTqoGR LXmFROHbs5MNilVnu6+qZjo162Pqsddr958O/avtzXrqTP8NiSlSn9Xcn1+6xri4Ye3/8PzL ++cqPJaXLWSoNd2oY1r/8ov/aa21ZSJGMbnM9cKMyc1rKyqYP+i8up9UGBfJ6DFxeeJZvfya 96FFSqdePAxrnnjOVnGewcb8k+sXMa+WN/uoxFKckWioxVxUnAgAEu5ThDgCAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/AwX_q9534DBShCbvL4zLsjNAv8w Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Criticism on draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 06:44:43 -0000 Hi Florian and WG, Please see inline. On 2014-04-25 01:21, Florian Zeitz wrote: > On 24.04.2014 16:51, Magnus Westerlund wrote: >> Florian, >> > Hello Magnus, > >> I would like to point out one factual error in your criticism: >> >> The draft does mandate support for the longest 128 bit authentication >> tag if one support the cipher at all. This is a quote from Section 13.1: >> >> Any implementation of AES-GCM SRTP MUST support both AEAD_AES_128_GCM >> and AEAD_AES_256_GCM (the versions with 16 octet AEAD authentication >> tags), and it MAY support the four other variants shown in table 1. >> >> Similarly from 13.2 for AES-CCM >> >> Any implementation of AES-CCM SRTP/SRTCP MUST support both >> AEAD_AES_128_CCM and AEAD_AES_256_CCM (the versions with 16 octet >> AEAD authentication tags), and MAY support the other four variants. >> >> But, to be fair this was changed very recently. >> > I'm admittedly a bit irritated, by you calling this my criticism. > Particularly after having pointed out I do not fully agree with it, but > am merely the messenger. Sorry, poorly worded to attribute it to you. > The parenthetical you refer to is my own analysis however. And in fact > it does appear I accidentally read the -10 version of the draft. I do > apologize for that mistake. > >> I would also note that the draft's security consideration section do >> discuss the shorter than authentication tag length of actual >> authentication protection for AES-GCM. >> >> It is up to the WG to discuss if it thinks there should be any changes >> based on your input. And I have to ask you what you think should be the >> action based on your personal opinion. >> > I suspect you might be wondering why I'm bringing this up if I don't > fully agree with the criticism. The reason is quite simply that I still > believe in the IETF culture. In particular I believe that, unlike what > many media outlets are claiming recently, the IETF and its WGs are fully > capable of appropriately dealing with criticism, and not letting > themselves gag by any government agency. (I.e. in some way I'm trying to > prove a point here) > > However, dealing with criticism is only possible, when it is actually > expressed towards the WG, which apparently neither Erich Möchel nor > Michael Kafka found necessary. Thanks for bringing it to the WG's attention. You are correct, that the WG needs to be made aware and have the chance to discuss and consider this. > > I see two ways to address this: > Either the WG agrees with the criticism, the logical consequence of > which would be removing GCM from the draft. > Or the authors/WG explain why they believe this draft to be reasonably > secure, despite the criticism, and proceed with the current wording. > > David McGrew choose the second option, and I'm personally content with > that. Hearing a second opinion from other WG members would be > appreciated though. I hope the WG participants are happy to review this criticism and consider McGrew's response as well as what the current version of the draft says in forming their own opinions, and hopefully state where they stand. If people have proposals for corrections or clarifications to the draft they can also be brought forward. >From a process point of view, as this document is currently in a publication has been requested state we can continue the WG discussion while the AD performs her review. The WG will have to form some concluding position at the end of the IETF review if not before. I would hope that people can provide their input into this over the next two weeks, i.e. by the 9th of May. Regards Magnus Westerlund As WG chair ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Services, Media and Network features, Ericsson Research EAB/TXM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Apr 25 01:05:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4F211A0484 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2014 01:05:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) 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References: <3C4AAD4B5304AB44A6BA85173B4675CABAA34EF5@MSMR-GH1-UEA03.corp.nsa.gov> In-Reply-To: <3C4AAD4B5304AB44A6BA85173B4675CABAA34EF5@MSMR-GH1-UEA03.corp.nsa.gov> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.19] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <6CD41220E59DCE4E8E2AEC723979648E@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmphkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGfG3RtdNPCrY4OxUGYuXPSvZLSaces3q wOSxZMlPJo/+XS9ZA5iiuGxSUnMyy1KL9O0SuDL2nFjAUvCspuJE+1XmBsYzlV2MnBwSAiYS J28dZ4awxSQu3FvP1sXIxSEkcJRR4t/vzYwQzmJGiYNL77CBVLEJGEjM3dMAZosIuEhMnbeU EcQWFgiQ+PfrCytEPFBi86q/LBB2mMSemZ/ZQWwWAVWJ1Z9egm3jFTCXeDJxJVivkECQxL4/ X8FsToFgibW/zoHNZwS66PupNUwgNrOAuMStJ/OZIC4VkFiy5zzU1aISLx//A9srKqAn8e44 TI2iRPvTBqCZHEC9mhLrd+lDjLGWaPr8lgXCVpSY0v2QHeIcQYmTM5+wTGAUn4Vk2yyE7llI 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ZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4gPiA+Pmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYXZ0 DQo+PiA+ID4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18NCj4+ID4gQXVkaW8vVmlkZW8gVHJhbnNwb3J0IENvcmUgTWFpbnRlbmFuY2Ug YXZ0QGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v YXZ0DQo+X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj5B dWRpby9WaWRlbyBUcmFuc3BvcnQgQ29yZSBNYWludGVuYW5jZQ0KPmF2dEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPmh0 dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYXZ0DQoNCg== From nobody Fri Apr 25 04:10:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 729A71A0366 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2014 04:10:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.172 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.172 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.272] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AoWPHhlXX2_j for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2014 04:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emvm-gh1-uea08.nsa.gov (emvm-gh1-uea08.nsa.gov [63.239.67.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 323A41A0175 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2014 04:10:29 -0700 (PDT) X-TM-IMSS-Message-ID: <14a8224e00072bdd@nsa.gov> Received: from MSHT-GH1-UEA02.corp.nsa.gov ([10.215.227.181]) by nsa.gov ([63.239.67.9]) with ESMTP (TREND IMSS SMTP Service 7.1; TLSv1/SSLv3 AES128-SHA (128/128)) id 14a8224e00072bdd ; Fri, 25 Apr 2014 07:09:02 -0400 Received: from MSMR-GH1-UEA01.corp.nsa.gov (10.215.225.4) by MSHT-GH1-UEA02.corp.nsa.gov (10.215.227.181) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.342.3; Fri, 25 Apr 2014 07:10:19 -0400 Received: from MSMR-GH1-UEA03.corp.nsa.gov ([10.215.224.3]) by MSMR-GH1-UEA01.corp.nsa.gov ([10.215.225.4]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Fri, 25 Apr 2014 07:10:19 -0400 From: "Igoe, Kevin M." To: 'John Mattsson' , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [AVTCORE] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHPYF0f3xF1opadBU2F8c+S7gCrYZsiLNpg Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 11:10:18 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4AAD4B5304AB44A6BA85173B4675CABAA3F753@MSMR-GH1-UEA03.corp.nsa.gov> References: <3C4AAD4B5304AB44A6BA85173B4675CABAA34EF5@MSMR-GH1-UEA03.corp.nsa.gov> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.215.225.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/yAFviKmeWSw5hcF5-bgSo9btSNE Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-srtp-aes-gcm-11.txt X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 11:10:33 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ESMTP id rVPOKYOqUCrw for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 00:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE45D1A6EF5 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 00:19:53 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f79036d00000126a-eb-5360a4176a7a Received: from ESESSHC020.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id FD.1A.04714.714A0635; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 09:19:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.191]) by ESESSHC020.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 09:19:51 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Errata on RFC 5764 Thread-Index: Ac9kRHBATYrInoBuTYKgxEuv0zupqw== Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:19:49 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D2E53A6@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.147] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D2E53A6ESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja74koRgg5dv5S1e9qxkd2D0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxtwLXWwFP8Qqtn7qYm1gPC7SxcjJISFgItH/toUVwhaTuHBv PVsXIxeHkMBRRol5R04xQzhLGCW2/jjN3sXIwcEmYCHR/U8bpEFEQFGi9dpnRhBbWEBaYvm9 t4wQcQWJxZd+skPYehJXDs5lAbFZBFQlbly7CmbzCvhK/Dz0F6yGEWjx91NrmEBsZgFxiVtP 5jNBHCQgsWTPeWYIW1Ti5eN/rCAnSAgoSUzbmgZRni9x51E3M8RIQYmTM5+wTGAUmoVk0iwk ZbOQlEHEdSQW7P7EBmFrSyxb+JoZxj5z4DETsvgCRvZVjKLFqcXFuelGxnqpRZnJxcX5eXp5 qSWbGIERcXDLb90djKtfOx5iFOBgVOLhLf4SGSzEmlhWXJl7iFGag0VJnLftrnewkEB6Yklq dmpqQWpRfFFpTmrxIUYmDk6pBkZPQd7LH6JOzpEpqEzybQi8cWepYOHvLQblHxa4rDk1f51N 1fknTab8J9ySTEKmnON+I9eVwbbpMuv+jac7ZLrF3xVKBmyefX1btO6BkOtPD8nL9S489cq2 OLzSoi/Q13jJQrdJr1bOmFh3MHL1178eMix6cxhc+IMWR7DVLnbfXde5c73pRz0lluKMREMt 5qLiRADudf5jaQIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/e8g2RgKKtHjCYu8G0rYHhkLJSLo Subject: [AVTCORE] Errata on RFC 5764 X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:19:57 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D2E53A6ESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Some time ago, Martin Thompson created the following errata on RFC 5764: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D5764 In my understanding, the errata is still open. Regards, Christer --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D2E53A6ESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

Some time ago, Martin Thompson created the following= errata on RFC 5764:

 

http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D5764

 

In my understanding, the errata is still open.<= /o:p>

 

Regards,

 

Christer

--_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D2E53A6ESESSMB209erics_-- From nobody Wed Apr 30 07:37:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02DA51A6FA7 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:37:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qj5KRMHHBhAk for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x235.google.com (mail-we0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC881A6F92 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-we0-f181.google.com with SMTP id q58so1794559wes.12 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:37:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=u0jd2RfILG36bGauILgk3J5FXee64pC2GmoF/MzH07w=; b=oIREo8eWHyFHivwQPKY3fmePxg/KKYyYcWZg1IAeYcpnQurNAdHkHVGIw5GWRIXD5a bplcSZPZpBrFA+RLdTb9i1vXPGJLsRfrLjVunRWoebuIgYEb3z3hsheJI761hVhYkWrZ 5lXsaU8tl4aWbSapxJPc2b9qEymvC99sv7baH1NO7AFvaHdO/vxXuiDCQOyQsndRxCIs 0F1BYW7E0/O2twURZLELFEJgY+3ab0UnBTXbotjh3k8gA/HkeQu1lzluMMftsZCql2Pv pvsKGLNgqECKpsdmRXfkfXASzOW7xjoKahL04XKw5Q+ash6+fypku45XZRl83ZghLHHk Lwrg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.171.167 with SMTP id av7mr4317678wjc.32.1398868661483; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.77.10 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.77.10 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:37:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D2E53A6@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D2E53A6@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:37:41 -0700 Message-ID: From: Martin Thomson To: Christer Holmberg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0122f2cea7c02304f8437df8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/0a713R60EbggtOhXM0ZhgktAIvc Cc: avt@ietf.org Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Errata on RFC 5764 X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:37:45 -0000 --089e0122f2cea7c02304f8437df8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 That's right. It is a small point, but worth clarifying. On Apr 30, 2014 12:20 AM, "Christer Holmberg" < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > > Some time ago, Martin Thompson created the following errata on RFC 5764: > > > > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=5764 > > > > In my understanding, the errata is still open. > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > _______________________________________________ > Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance > avt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt > > --089e0122f2cea7c02304f8437df8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

That's right. It is a small point, but worth clarifying.=

On Apr 30, 2014 12:20 AM, "Christer Holmber= g" <christer.holm= berg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,

=C2=A0

Some time ago, Martin Thompson created the following= errata on RFC 5764:

=C2=A0

http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.ph= p?rfc=3D5764

=C2=A0

In my understanding, the errata is still open.

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Christer


_______________________________________________
Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance
avt@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt

--089e0122f2cea7c02304f8437df8-- From nobody Wed Apr 30 08:56:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2FD01A08DD for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 08:56:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BxhFtqml2xSt for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 08:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe14:43:76:96:62:56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA0C1A6F36 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 08:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.36]) by qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id wDXV1n00F0mv7h056FwY30; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 15:56:32 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([24.34.72.61]) by omta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id wFwY1n00E1KKtkw3XFwYBj; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 15:56:32 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s3UFuVv6024406; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 11:56:31 -0400 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id s3UFuVOh024403; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 11:56:31 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 11:56:31 -0400 Message-Id: <201404301556.s3UFuVOh024403@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: Christer Holmberg In-reply-to: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D2E53A6@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> (christer.holmberg@ericsson.com) References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D2E53A6@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1398873393; bh=n6TUY9sbYqasLc6ahPNWhkZMBBV2omHJGKrcwcZnPkQ=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Date:Message-Id:From:To: Subject; b=r4m2tYeAmI5rQ2iL7REdAu3G7CG5PLc4+CZvnrVfmwEY6qaxjEtrOJhklobahFY2A HLvFQWJLmsbzab3wTIlQE7Msi/aXIamzqtAif4Ytlt4PuxpxsRcjF4tKdeX7iNj2Je pK2w2lzVqRbsh8Or5tB+4ebGFVVRCWr4xyZbgqA+a9Q/i2NlPrnE6UdDDhjLA2NYgb WLHBelxLG2ejX6f4aatpmtEhKnqnIxHGRk40Ce7PilT3kNKebufUjre17pX3crDLOp ECsm241PS+bPT1p2TCMjAU7OuQSRz8n/5MqRcyHDTeKcM7Kp3N1CacEKqPVamjYaka L2s8X71wy8kfQ== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/OqRMgyxeIk68T_pEhUuTNp3YsSU Cc: avt@ietf.org Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Errata on RFC 5764 X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 15:56:37 -0000 > From: Christer Holmberg > > Some time ago, Martin Thompson created the following errata on RFC 5764: > > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=5764 > > In my understanding, the errata is still open. It seems like it might be worth specifying that STUN message types aren't allowed to exceed 1279 (as a modification to STUN). That shouldn't be a practical constraint, but eliminates the demultiplexing problem. Dale