From nobody Thu Jun 1 05:44:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50378129B95 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 05:44:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y9UvBUnfaqls for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 05:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtps.ntu.edu.tw (smtps.ntu.edu.tw [140.112.2.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CE23129B8B for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 05:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-f48.google.com (mail-vk0-f48.google.com [209.85.213.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtps.ntu.edu.tw (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0C8106E33 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 20:44:31 +0800 (CST) Received: by mail-vk0-f48.google.com with SMTP id y190so23980495vkc.1 for ; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 05:44:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcCnrQP0fxFZ1JhESeP786yZqgwaIUZJdfKcAwLEK8p1m4e/bDHn LCqrfWsF+HLXD+8sGJYneN2HzESDww== X-Received: by 10.31.88.6 with SMTP id m6mr623543vkb.0.1496321069617; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 05:44:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.31.198.193 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 05:44:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Polly Huang Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 20:44:29 +0800 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: avt@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] ACM BuildSys 2017 Call for Paper X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2017 12:44:35 -0000 -- Our sincere apologies if you receive duplicates of the call -- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Dear Colleagues, Please see below the Call for Papers for ACM BuildSys 2017. We enthusiastically look forward to your submissions on advancements in systems for any aspect of the built environment. Our sincere apologies if you receive multiple copies of this email. BuildSys has established itself as the premier conference for researchers and practitioners working to develop and optimize smart infrastructure systems that are driven by sensing, computing, and control functions. The review process is very thorough, and publications are considered to have the same value as journal publications in engineering fields. November 8-9, 2017 Delft, The Netherlands | co-located with ACM SenSys 2017 http://buildsys.acm.org/2017/ Important Dates: Abstract Registration: June 9, 2017 (11:59 PM AoE) Paper Submission Deadline: June 16, 2017 (11:59 PM AoE) Acceptance Notification: August 18, 2017 Camera-Ready Deadline: September, 2017 Conference Dates: November 8-9, 2017 ** For the abstract registration, you only need to enter the title of the paper, the list of authors and their email addresses, the PC conflicts, and a brief abstract (~150-250 words). After registering the paper's abstract, you will have an additional week to upload the PDF file of the paper (either a 10-page Full paper or a 4-page Notes paper). Advances in the effective integration of networked sensors, building controls, and physical infrastructure are transforming our society, allowing the formation of unprecedented built environments and interlocking physical, social, cyber challenges. Built environments, including buildings and critical urban infrastructure, account for over half of society=E2=80=99s energy consumption and are the mainstay of o= ur nation=E2=80=99s economy, security and health. As a result, there is a broa= d recognition that systems optimizing explicitly for the built environment are particularly important in improving our society, e.g., by increasing its sustainability and enhancing people=E2=80=99s quality-of-life. These systems represent the foundation for emerging =E2=80=9Csmart cities=E2=80=9D. The 4th ACM International Conference on Systems for Energy-Efficient Built Environments (BuildSys 2017) will be held November 8-9, 2017 at Delft, The Netherlands. We invite original contributions in the areas of intelligent systems and applications for the built environment. BuildSys particularly emphasizes approaches that improve energy efficiency, reduce costs, increase performance, and add novel functionality for improving users=E2=80=99 comfort and experience. BuildSys= =E2=80=99 scope is broad, encompassing all systems within the built environment of the urban fabric, including not only buildings but also critical infrastructure systems, such as water, power, lighting, communications, and transportation that will make up the =E2=80=9Csmart cities=E2=80=9D of the future. Submission Types: We solicit three types of original submissions: * Regular papers for oral presentation (10 pages) * Notes papers for oral presentation (4 pages) * Technical posters and demos will be solicited via a separate call (2 pa= ges) Topics: Papers are invited in all emerging aspects of information-driven systems for the built environment. Topics of interest include but are not limited to the following: =C2=B7 Applications in smart and connected communities; =C2=B7 Sensing and control for urban infrastructure systems; =C2=B7 Novel sensor methodologies, techniques, and tools; =C2=B7 Sensing and control of electrical, gas, and water loads; =C2=B7 Improved user interfaces to built infrastructure; =C2=B7 Modeling, simulation, optimization, and control of heating, cooling, lighting, ventilation, water usage and other resource flows in built environments; =C2=B7 Sensor systems and applications that enhance energy efficiency, energy reliability, durability and comfort; =C2=B7 Systems that integrate infrastructure with the smart grid to offer demand response and ancillary services; =C2=B7 Distributed generation, alternative energy, renewable sources, and energy storage in buildings; =C2=B7 Emerging standards for data collection, energy control, or interoperability of disparate devices or systems; =C2=B7 Sensing, modeling, and predicting the urban heartbeat including sounds, movements, and radio spectrum; =C2=B7 Human in the loop sensing and control for efficient usage of electricity, gas, heating, water; =C2=B7 Sensor systems for reliable occupancy counting; =C2=B7 Long-lived and energy harvesting sensor systems; =C2=B7 Scalable indoor localization and contextual computing; =C2=B7 Security, privacy, safety, and reliability in built systems; =C2=B7 Empirical studies of city-scale wireless communications. From nobody Fri Jun 2 00:58:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FC913148E for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 00:58:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.821 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.821 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FL4TnlGdPAdP for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 00:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 328E61314A6 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 00:58:31 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-6e3519a000004a6a-4f-59311aa53641 Received: from ESESSHC019.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.75]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 96.91.19050.5AA11395; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 09:58:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.77) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.339.0; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 09:57:21 +0200 To: Roni Even , "avt@ietf.org" References: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7CC7D1@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> <9f3be17d-1306-bca3-13eb-5aef99d4a684@ericsson.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7CE5BB@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Magnus Westerlund Message-ID: <25226376-3256-c292-a3cb-b6f4748d6cfd@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 09:57:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7CE5BB@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7t+5SKcNIgwULpCxe9qxkt/h07DyL A5NHy5G3rB5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mp4Mv8xe8FWqYq2Y79YGhjni3YxcnBICJhI PJuQ2cXIxSEkcIRR4t30pewQzjJGifWnHgI5nBzCAr4S83c1s4M0iAg4S1xZHQFRcxmo5vwL VpAaNgELiZs/GtlAbF4Be4m/O6YygdgsAioSP1ftBouLCsRIPNpwlgmiRlDi5MwnLCA2p0CI xLsX38BsZqA5M+efZ4SwxSVuPZnPBGHLSzRvnc0MYgsJaEs0NHWwTmAUmIVk1Cwk7bOQtM9C 0r6AkWUVo2hxanFxbrqRkV5qUWZycXF+nl5easkmRmC4Htzy22oH48HnjocYBTgYlXh49/MZ RgqxJpYVV+YeYpTgYFYS4V3ECxTiTUmsrEotyo8vKs1JLT7EKM3BoiTO67DvQoSQQHpiSWp2 ampBahFMlomDU6qBMW7qxhvL0s7nb5NlbnP5U/zIpD27KKLLYtnZCVNYmD0YW75Mny6RauGx +tibL389BNSufGRUmLLT3vK9y+LCcxFbV3LZ355pYHvr/EWjlYuS0hnmpDnc3VpyNfZVL1e7 6upMjo0nlhmviz0ertxU6HZsrvaSr9v+fN58992iShvxd89PRDwPKlNiKc5INNRiLipOBABW WFtKUwIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-11.txt - new text for bundle case X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 07:58:53 -0000 Hi, This works for me. I would really like some more people providing their views on this. Cheers Magnus Westerlund Den 2017-05-24 kl. 12:45, skrev Roni Even: > Hi Magnus, Thanks, > > So the new text based on Magnus comments will be: > > > I suggest adding the following text to section 6 > > When used in [bundle] this attribute is specified as normal category > for the [mux attribute]. This allows for only a subset of the m-lines > in the bundle group to offer extmap-allow-mixed. When an answerer > supporting the extmap-allow-mix attribute receives an offer where > only some of the m-lines in the bundle group include the > extmap-allow-mixed attribute, the answerer MUST receive this offer > and support mixed one-byte and two-bytes only for those m-lines. > Transmitters MUST only send RTP header extensions using mixed on > those RTP streams originating from those media sources (m=) blocks > that includes extmap-allow-mixed, and are RECOMMENDED to support > receiving mixed on all RTP streams being received in an RTP session > where at least one bundled m= block is indicating > extmap-allow-mixed. > > > And the following text to section 7 > > When using [bundle] to bundle multiple m-lines the extmap attribute > falls under the special category of [mux attribute]. All the m-lines > in a bundle group are considered to be part of the same local > identifier (ID) space. If an RTP header extension, i.e. a particular > extension URI and configuration using , is > offered in multiple m-lines that are part of the same bundle group it > MUST use the same ID in all of these m-lines. Each m-line in a bundle > group can include different RTP header extensions allowing for > example audio and video sources to use different sets of RTP header > extensions. It SHALL be assumed that for any RTP header extension, > difference in configuration using any of the is > important and need to be preserved to any receiver, thus requiring > assignment of different IDs. Any RTP header extension that do not > match this assumption MUST explicitly provide rules for what are > compatible configurations that can be sent with the same ID. The > directionality of the RTP header extensions in each m-line of the > bundle group are handled as the non-bundled case. This allows for > specifying different directionality for each of the repeated > extension URI in bundled group. > > > In section 10.1 review process add a new bullet. > > > That for [bundle] multiplexed m-lines, any RTP header extension with > difference in configurations of that do not > require assignment of different IDs, MUST explicitly indicate this > and provide rules for what are compatible configurations that can be > sent with the same ID. > > > > > Please review and send comments. > Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Media Technologies, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Jun 3 21:57:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietf.org Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E4EC126FB3; Sat, 3 Jun 2017 21:57:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: avt@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.52.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149655226214.31831.1529792788276314349@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2017 21:57:42 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12.txt X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2017 04:57:42 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance of the IETF. Title : A General Mechanism for RTP Header Extensions Authors : David Singer Harikishan Desineni Roni Even Filename : draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2017-06-03 Abstract: This document provides a general mechanism to use the header extension feature of RTP (the Real-Time Transport Protocol). It provides the option to use a small number of small extensions in each RTP packet, where the universe of possible extensions is large and registration is de-centralized. The actual extensions in use in a session are signaled in the setup information for that session. This document obsoletes RFC5285. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 6 14:00:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6587E1200B9; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 14:00:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l9MP_GSUX9E4; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 14:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A4A612951C; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 14:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0073109.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.20/8.16.0.20) with SMTP id v56KxmUC007107; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 17:00:45 -0400 Received: from mail.vidyo.com (mail2.vidyo.com [162.209.16.214]) by mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2aup7j9yfq-1 (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 06 Jun 2017 17:00:44 -0400 Received: from 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77]) by 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 16:00:43 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: Ben Campbell CC: "draft-ietf-avtext-lrr.all@ietf.org" , IETF AVTCore WG Thread-Topic: AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-avtext-lrr-05 Thread-Index: AQHS1ajoCvWk2TDGpk6by7wciOkgYKIYuGoA Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 21:00:42 +0000 Message-ID: <192000CE-8D82-4856-8282-9A0B0C7AFFE8@vidyo.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.219.114] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <432ADD6B776B5246B2D392B96FF86DDE@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-06-06_14:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1703280000 definitions=main-1706060364 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-avtext-lrr-05 X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 21:00:47 -0000 DQo+IE9uIE1heSAyNSwgMjAxNywgYXQgNjo0NyBQTSwgQmVuIENhbXBiZWxsIDxiZW5Abm9zdHJ1 bS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gSGksDQo+IA0KPiBUaGlzIGlzIG15IEFEIEV2YWx1YXRpb24g b2YgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1hdnRleHQtbHJyLTA1LiBJIG9ubHkgaGF2ZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBlZGl0 b3JpYWwgY29tbWVudHMsIHdoaWNoIGNhbiBiZSBoYW5kbGVkIGFsb25nIHdpdGggYW55IElFVEYg TGFzdCBDYWxsIGNvbW1lbnRzLiBJIHdpbGwgcmVxdWVzdCBJRVRGIExhc3QgQ2FsbCBzaG9ydGx5 Lg0KPiANCj4gVGhhbmtzIQ0KPiANCj4gQmVuLg0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHlvdXIgY29tbWVudHMh DQoNCg0KPiAtMy4yLCBsYXN0IHBhcmFncmFwaDogdGhlIOKAnE1BWeKAnSBzZWVtcyBsaWtlIGEg c3RhdGVtZW50IG9mIGZhY3QsIHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIG5vcm1hdGl2ZSBwZXJtaXNzaW9uLiBQbGVh c2UgY29uc2lkZXIgbG93ZXIgY2FzZS4NCg0KRml4ZWQsIGFsb25nIHdpdGggYSBnZW5lcmFsIHBh cmFncmFwaCByZXdvcmRpbmcgaW4gcmVzcG9uc2UgdG8gRnJlZCBCYWtlcuKAmXMgb3BzLWRpciBy ZXZpZXcuDQoNCj4gLTQuMywgMm5kIHBhcmFncmFwaDogIiANCj4gRmlndXJlIDggc2hvd3MgdGhl IGZvcm1hdCBvZiB0aGUgbGF5ZXIgaW5kZXggZmllbGQgZm9yIEguMjY1IHN0cmVhbXMuIFRoZSAi UkVTIiBmaWVsZHMgTVVTVCBiZSBzZXQgdG8gMCBvbiB0cmFuc21pc3Npb24gYW5kIGlnbm9yZWQg b24gcmVjZXB0aW9uLuKAnQ0KPiANCj4gSXMgdGhhdCBNVVNUIGEgbmV3IG5vcm1hdGl2ZSByZXF1 aXJlbWVudCwgb3IgYSByZWZlcmVuY2UgdG8gb25lIGluIFJGQyA3Nzk4PyBJZiB0aGUgbGF0ZXIs IHBsZWFzZSB1c2UgZGVzY3JpcHRpdmUgKGkuZS4gbm9uLTIxMTkpIGxhbmd1YWdlLg0KDQpJdOKA mXMgYSBuZXcgbm9ybWF0aXZlIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50OyB0aGlzIGlzIGRlZmluaW5nIHRoZSBjb2Rl Yy1zcGVjaWZpYyBmaWVsZHMgZm9yIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQuDQoNCkhvd2V2ZXIsIHRoaXMgZG9l cyByZXZlYWwgdG8gbWUgdGhhdCB0aGlzIHNlY3Rpb24gc3RpbGwgdXNlcyB0aGUgb2xkIHRlcm0g 4oCcbGF5ZXIgaW5kZXjigJ0gbm90IHRoZSBuZXcgdGVybXMg4oCcVFRJROKAnSBhbmQg4oCcVExJ ROKAnSwgd2hpY2ggd2FzIHByb2JhYmx5IHRoZSBzb3VyY2Ugb2YgdGhlIGNvbmZ1c2lvbiwgc28g SeKAmWxsIGZpeCB0aGF0Lg== From nobody Tue Jun 6 14:15:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C2E81294E2; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 14:15:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xc-eMPwgJ0R2; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 14:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F25A128BB6; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 14:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.2.78] (ip-5-232-239-173.texas.us.northamericancoax.com [173.239.232.5]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v56LEnkT079638 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 6 Jun 2017 16:14:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host ip-5-232-239-173.texas.us.northamericancoax.com [173.239.232.5] claimed to be [10.0.2.78] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Ben Campbell X-Mailer: iPad Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: <192000CE-8D82-4856-8282-9A0B0C7AFFE8@vidyo.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 17:14:48 -0400 Cc: "draft-ietf-avtext-lrr.all@ietf.org" , IETF AVTCore WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <192000CE-8D82-4856-8282-9A0B0C7AFFE8@vidyo.com> To: Jonathan Lennox Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-avtext-lrr-05 X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 21:15:28 -0000 All sounds good, thanks! > On Jun 6, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Jonathan Lennox wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On May 25, 2017, at 6:47 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> This is my AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-avtext-lrr-05. I only have a coupl= e of editorial comments, which can be handled along with any IETF Last Call c= omments. I will request IETF Last Call shortly. >>=20 >> Thanks! >>=20 >> Ben. >=20 > Thanks for your comments! >=20 >=20 >> -3.2, last paragraph: the =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D seems like a statement of= fact, rather than normative permission. Please consider lower case. >=20 > Fixed, along with a general paragraph rewording in response to Fred Baker=E2= =80=99s ops-dir review. >=20 >> -4.3, 2nd paragraph: "=20 >> Figure 8 shows the format of the layer index field for H.265 streams. The= "RES" fields MUST be set to 0 on transmission and ignored on reception.=E2=80= =9D >>=20 >> Is that MUST a new normative requirement, or a reference to one in RFC 77= 98? If the later, please use descriptive (i.e. non-2119) language. >=20 > It=E2=80=99s a new normative requirement; this is defining the codec-speci= fic fields for this document. >=20 > However, this does reveal to me that this section still uses the old term =E2= =80=9Clayer index=E2=80=9D not the new terms =E2=80=9CTTID=E2=80=9D and =E2=80= =9CTLID=E2=80=9D, which was probably the source of the confusion, so I=E2=80= =99ll fix that. From nobody Thu Jun 8 09:17:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3979413148A for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:48:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dw77KQHEJ6ih for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BEAC12EBF9 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 299C9B81170; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:48:27 -0700 (PDT) To: gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se, paulej@packetizer.com, ben@nostrum.com, aamelnikov@fastmail.fm, adam@nostrum.com, keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com, roni.even@mail01.huawei.com X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se, avt@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20170607194827.299C9B81170@rfc-editor.org> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 09:17:57 -0700 Subject: [AVTCORE] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC4103 (5032) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 19:48:33 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC4103, "RTP Payload for Text Conversation". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5032 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Gunnar Hellstrom Section: 5.2 Original Text ------------- After an idle period, the transmitter SHOULD set the M-bit to one in the first packet with new text. Corrected Text -------------- After an idle period, the transmitter SHOULD set the M-bit to one in the first packet with new text. A number of approaches can be taken for how to compose the initial packets in the session, and the packets sent at resumption after an idle period. In order to harmonize transmitter behavior, and fulfill requirements in RFC 2198[3] and RFC 4102[9], transmitters SHOULD apply the following mechanism: Initially in the session and at resumption of transmission after an idle period, when redundancy is used, the packets to send SHOULD contain the same level of redundancy as specified for the session. If redundant data for the specified number of generations is not available for transmission, empty T140blocks SHOULD be inserted in the packet for transmission to make it contain the specified level of redundancy. Notes ----- RFC 4103 does not exactly specify how to compose the first packets in the session and the packets after an idle period, when redundancy is used in the session. Even if receivers should be prepared to decode any valid packet composition, it eases interoperability when transmitters behave consistently. RFC 2198 requires that the redundant format must carry at least the primary and one redundant level. RFC 4102 requires that if different compositions of the payloads in the packet is to be used, then each combination needs to be assigned its own payload type number. Assuming that that includes use of varying levels of redundancy with the same payload in the redundant data, these requirements lead to the recommendation to use the approach documented in the corrected text. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC4103 (draft-ietf-avt-rfc2793bis-09) -------------------------------------- Title : RTP Payload for Text Conversation Publication Date : June 2005 Author(s) : G. Hellstrom, P. Jones Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Audio/Video Transport Area : Real-time Applications and Infrastructure Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Thu Jun 15 15:26:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietf.org Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 378EE12EAA4; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 15:26:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.54.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, ben@nostrum.com, roni.even@mail01.huawei.com, draft-ietf-avtcore-aria-srtp@ietf.org, avt@ietf.org Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <149756557122.11305.5038816766637052077.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 15:26:11 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] Last Call: (The ARIA Algorithm and Its Use with the Secure Real-time Transport Protocol(SRTP)) to Informational RFC X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 22:26:11 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance WG (avtcore) to consider the following document: - 'The ARIA Algorithm and Its Use with the Secure Real-time Transport Protocol(SRTP)' as Informational RFC A previous version of this draft was last-called as a proposed standard. Due to last call an IESG feedback, the working group made the following changes: -- Changed status to informational -- Removed the registrations for SDP security descriptions. -- Removed the short authentication tag (GCM_8) modes -- Some tweaks on key lifetimes The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-06-29. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document defines the use of the ARIA block cipher algorithm within the Secure Real-time Transport Protocol (SRTP). It details two modes of operation (CTR, GCM) and a SRTP Key Derivation Function for ARIA. Additionally, this document defines DTLS-SRTP protection profiles and MIKEY parameter sets for the use with ARIA. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-aria-srtp/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-aria-srtp/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Thu Jun 15 20:47:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietf.org Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A99128B91; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 20:47:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Liang Xia To: Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, avt@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.54.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149758483978.11296.2498869353473500417@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 20:47:19 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12 X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 03:47:20 -0000 Reviewer: Liang Xia Review result: Ready This document is ready to be published as a Standards Track document. This document provides a general mechanism to use the header extension feature of RTP (the Real-Time Transport Protocol). It provides the option to use a small number of small extensions in each RTP packet, where the universe of possible extensions is large and registration is de-centralized. The actual extensions in use in a session are signaled in the setup information for that session. This document obsoletes RFC5285. This document has addressed all the issues I raised in Secdir review of -09 version, and is a well written now. I don't have any more comments. From nobody Mon Jun 19 09:19:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietf.org Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C7A0131578; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:18:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Warren Kumari To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, avt@ietf.org, carlosm3011@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149788913717.10664.8731789271193740313.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:18:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:18:57 -0000 Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to Carlos for the opsdir review. Nit: Page 6 - "Extension element types that dp not match the header extension format" s/dp/do/ From nobody Mon Jun 19 13:51:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietf.org Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 852311250B8; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 13:51:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, avt@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 13:51:02 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 20:51:03 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions. I couldn't parse this sentence. "A transmitter may be aware that an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case, the transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form." I think In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit value required by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled in the RTP specification as "defined by profile", MUST have the fixed bit pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification was written on the feast day of the Venerable Bede). is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't studied English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more likely, just say "May 25" so it's not a mystery? From nobody Mon Jun 19 17:34:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietf.org Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5763B1293E3; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 17:34:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, avt@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149791884335.23828.13769788810069405479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 17:34:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 00:34:03 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Why are you allowing this extension to be "normal" in BUNDLE? If you're bundling, you should be modern enough to handle mixed, no? Why not make life simple? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There are two variants of the extension: one-byte and two-byte headers. Since it is expected that (a) the number of extensions in any given RTP session is small and (b) the extensions themselves are small, the one-byte header form is preferred and MUST be supported by all receivers. A stream MUST contain only one-byte or two-byte "or only two-byte" would be clearer. headers unless it is known that all recipients support mixing, either by SDP Offer/Answer [RFC3264] negotiation (see section 6) or by out- of-band knowledge. Each RTP packet with an RTP header extension following this specification will indicate if it contains one or two byte header extensions through the use of the "defined by profile" field. Extension element types that dp not match the header do not match extension format, i.e. one- or two-byte, MUST NOT be used in that RTP packet. Transmitters SHOULD NOT use the two-byte form when all extensions are small enough for the one-byte header form. Transmitters that intend to send the two-byte form SHOULD negotiate the use of IDs above 14 if they want to let the Receivers know that they intend to use two-byte form, for example if the RTP header extension is longer than 16 bytes. A transmitter may be aware that an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case, the transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form. I think you want '; in this case...." if this means what I think it means. assignment of different IDs. Any RTP header extension that do not does not match this assumption MUST explicitly provide rules for what are cipher. It can be noted that the default SRTP ciphers (AES CM 128 bits with HMAC-SHA1) are relative weak and more modern ciphers are stronger and should be considered. What's weak about AES-CTR-HMAC? I recognize that this was in the secdir review, but I'm not sure what claim you are making here. From nobody Tue Jun 20 08:59:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 994F6128BC8; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 08:59:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sr56Y4lV1Cve; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 08:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BA9C131A5E; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 08:57:44 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-ef7ff7000000080d-de-594945f5a000 Received: from ESESSHC024.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.90]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 32.2B.02061.5F549495; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 17:57:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB103.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.195]) by ESESSHC024.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.90]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 17:57:41 +0200 From: Magnus Westerlund To: Eric Rescorla , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS6Vzs4OiQvNw/6EK+AN0SLVf7rQ== Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:57:40 +0000 Message-ID: <52E4A8FC978E0241AE652516E24CAF0029AAF516@ESESSMB103.ericsson.se> References: <149791884335.23828.13769788810069405479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.150] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpgkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbE9Svebq2ekwZdOTYuXPSvZLfZtXslq seP1KxaLFa/PsVvM+DOR2YHVY8mSn0wekx+3MQcwRXHZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlnG16zFywlKdi 08J1TA2M27i6GDk5JARMJM7+msvSxcjFISRwhFHixtRljBDOEkaJP7O7WECq2AQsJG7+aGQD sUUErCRe/b4G1sEssJ5R4u61XUwgCWGBdIndS6ayQxRlSHT/fM0IYetJ3Dm2BayZRUBVYsvM drChvAK+EvcWvwfq5QDa5ifx8IQrSJhRQFbi/vd7YCXMAuISt57MZ4K4VEBiyZ7zzBC2qMTL x/9YIWwliRXbLzFC1OtILNj9iQ3C1pZYtvA1M8QqQYmTM5+wTGAUmYVk7CwkLbOQtMxC0rKA kWUVo2hxanFxbrqRsV5qUWZycXF+nl5easkmRmC8HNzyW3cH4+rXjocYBTgYlXh4fSQ8I4VY E8uKK3MPMUpwMCuJ8Do5A4V4UxIrq1KL8uOLSnNSiw8xSnOwKInzOuy7ECEkkJ5YkpqdmlqQ WgSTZeLglGpgXB9+clFX7zY7aUlZU1cNgfrTxlsc9z8uDU2qkTroGzm1XjRMnSNQTOEUR1fw 9e7753ft/CzLe9hg445bnyYt+bbCVdq3+Wc6xzqpzrStOUv/fN81U+X9oQ8v+2t6H/3OMGoT nW/h81ytxK+w6/9xAZarbx12lhzz3//6vND5+DW/M7iWn009osRSnJFoqMVcVJwIAAerI76T AgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:59:19 -0000 Hi Eric,=0A= =0A= As Shepherd I have some questions and comments below regarding the discuss.= =0A= =0A= Den 2017-06-20 kl. 02:34, skrev Eric Rescorla:=0A= >=0A= > ----------------------------------------------------------------------=0A= > DISCUSS:=0A= > ----------------------------------------------------------------------=0A= >=0A= > Why are you allowing this extension to be "normal" in BUNDLE?=0A= > If you're bundling, you should be modern enough to handle=0A= > mixed, no? Why not make life simple?=0A= =0A= So Normal allows individual negotiation on a per m=3D line. This was=0A= discussed in the WG see the thread starting with this message:=0A= https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/BaElJmDlmDtOaAcXKV_Rk5fARgk=0A= =0A= I was arguing for Identical to make things simple and consistent,=0A= however both David Singer and Roni Even disagreed, so I let it go as=0A= soon as what was specified could work. =0A= =0A= Or the above a question of considering mandating allowed mixed support=0A= if one offers BUNDLE?=0A= =0A= Cheers=0A= =0A= Magnus Westerlund =0A= =0A= ----------------------------------------------------------------------=0A= Media Technologies, Ericsson Research=0A= ----------------------------------------------------------------------=0A= Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287=0A= Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079=0A= SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com=0A= ----------------------------------------------------------------------=0A= =0A= From nobody Tue Jun 20 10:01:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietf.org Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF2F4128CDC; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:01:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alexey Melnikov To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, avt@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149797808384.24922.16736269841062630572.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:01:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 17:01:24 -0000 Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In general this is a well written document, but I have a small list of issues that you should consider fixing: In Section 5: When SDP signaling is used for the RTP session, it is the presence of the 'extmap' attribute(s) that is diagnostic that this style of header extensions is used, not the magic number indicated above. You lost me here. Which magic number do you mean here? In Section 7: If an extension is marked as "sendonly" and the answerer desires to receive it, the extension MUST be marked as "recvonly" in the SDP answer. An answerer that has no desire to receive the extension or does not understand the extension SHOULD remove it from the SDP answer. Why is this not a MUST? If an extension is marked as "recvonly" and the answerer desires to send it, the extension MUST be marked as "sendonly" in the SDP answer. An answerer that has no desire to, or is unable to, send the extension SHOULD remove it from the SDP answer. As above. In Section 9: In order to prevent DOS attacks, for example, by changing the header extension integrity protection SHOULD be used. I can't parse this sentence. From nobody Tue Jun 20 16:16:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietf.org Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC3CB12783A; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:16:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, avt@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149800057969.15702.3522798954779108317.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:16:19 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] Adam Roach's Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:16:20 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The use of the term "local" in this document is implicit and therefore confusing. Section 5 refers to "local identifier (ID)", while section 7 refers to "Local identifiers". Neither indicates what the identifiers are local to, and some implementors have chosen to interpret this as meaning "local to the sender machine." See, for example, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1361206 I believe the intention here is for "local" to mean "local to this session." This meaning should be made explicit. And, for avoidance of doubt, the document should clarify that the negotiated identifiers use the same numeric value in both directions. This is implied by much of the text, but it never stated outright. Because so many other session attributes (e.g., payload types) can be negotiated to be different in each direction, many implementors are likely to assume the same applies here. As the above bug demonstrates, this leads to real interop issues in the field. Nits: element (no alignment is needed), and parsing stops at the earlier of the end of the entire header extension, or in one-byte headers only case, on encountering an identifier with the reserved value of 15. Put quotation marks around "one byte headers only". ____ Each extension element MUST starts with a byte containing an ID and a length: s/starts/start/ ____ The attribute definition in section 6 says "Value:" instead of "Value: none." -- Fix or refer to the IANA section instead. From nobody Tue Jun 20 22:08:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34FE127076; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 22:08:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mk6xWrKTcqbh; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 22:08:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4B26124BE8; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 22:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DPN49462; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 05:08:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.211) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:08:31 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.211]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:08:23 +0800 From: Roni Even To: Eric Rescorla , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS6Vzw19JVEdqGt06rTGq4ijzxeaIuwSpg Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 05:08:22 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB44A@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149791884335.23828.13769788810069405479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149791884335.23828.13769788810069405479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0207.5949FF51.0052, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.18, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 392cbbd258107f27822a9d637d9f4ffb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , 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([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DIX22633; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 05:23:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.211) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:23:36 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.211]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:23:29 +0800 From: Roni Even To: Alexey Melnikov , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS6ebdaYxMtHRrskWv1DfvFTQQXaIuxdmQ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 05:23:29 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB466@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149797808384.24922.16736269841062630572.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149797808384.24922.16736269841062630572.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090204.594A02DA.000E, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.18, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: e83ab901c8f96386c4aa102347e9ee3f Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 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IGludGVncml0eSBwcm90ZWN0aW9uIFNIT1VMRA0KICAgYmUgdXNlZC4iIHdvcmsgYmV0dGVyPw0K PiANCg0K From nobody Tue Jun 20 23:04:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C33A12704B; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:04:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YkadJH6IOalh; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50F041205F0; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DIX27521; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:04:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.212) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:04:29 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.212]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:04:14 +0800 From: Roni Even To: Adam Roach , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adam Roach's Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS6hs+xjUIcNOb4EGv7RJ1J3oHAKIuysdA Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:04:13 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB4AA@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149800057969.15702.3522798954779108317.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149800057969.15702.3522798954779108317.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.594A0C6F.0090, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.18, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: ecfc85fcf36240ca1e5b95c506e29e06 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Adam Roach's Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:04:36 -0000 SGkgQWRhbSwNCklubGluZQ0KUm9uaQ0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+ IEZyb206IEFkYW0gUm9hY2ggW21haWx0bzphZGFtQG5vc3RydW0uY29tXQ0KPiBTZW50OiDXmdeV 153CoNeTIDIxINeZ15XXoNeZIDIwMTcgMDI6MTYNCj4gVG86IFRoZSBJRVNHDQo+IENjOiBkcmFm dC1pZXRmLWF2dGNvcmUtcmZjNTI4NS1iaXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IE1hZ251cyBXZXN0ZXJsdW5kOyBh dnRjb3JlLQ0KPiBjaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IG1hZ251cy53ZXN0ZXJsdW5kQGVyaWNzc29uLmNv bTsgYXZ0QGlldGYub3JnDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IEFkYW0gUm9hY2gncyBZZXMgb24gZHJhZnQtaWV0 Zi1hdnRjb3JlLXJmYzUyODUtYmlzLTEyOiAod2l0aA0KPiBDT01NRU5UKQ0KPiANCj4gQWRhbSBS b2FjaCBoYXMgZW50ZXJlZCB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGJhbGxvdCBwb3NpdGlvbiBmb3INCj4gZHJh ZnQtaWV0Zi1hdnRjb3JlLXJmYzUyODUtYmlzLTEyOiBZZXMNCj4gDQo+IFdoZW4gcmVzcG9uZGlu ZywgcGxlYXNlIGtlZXAgdGhlIHN1YmplY3QgbGluZSBpbnRhY3QgYW5kIHJlcGx5IHRvIGFsbCBl 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IA0KPiBUaGUgYXR0cmlidXRlIGRlZmluaXRpb24gaW4gc2VjdGlvbiA2IHNheXMgIlZhbHVlOiIg aW5zdGVhZCBvZiAiVmFsdWU6IG5vbmUuIg0KPiAtLSBGaXggb3IgcmVmZXIgdG8gdGhlIElBTkEg c2VjdGlvbiBpbnN0ZWFkLg0KW1JvbmkgRXZlbl0gT0ssIHdpbGwgY2hhbmdlIG4gc2VjdGlvbiA2 IHRvICJWYWx1ZTpub25lIg0KDQo+IA0KDQo= From nobody Tue Jun 20 23:09:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4EC12EC7F for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:09:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KazO8qIRqB_P for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07E02126579 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DIX28216; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:09:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.210) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:09:16 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.210]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:08:50 +0800 From: Roni Even To: "singer@apple.com" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" CC: "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adam Roach's Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS6hs+xjUIcNOb4EGv7RJ1J3oHAKIu1JJA Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:08:49 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB4BD@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149800057969.15702.3522798954779108317.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149800057969.15702.3522798954779108317.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.594A0D8D.0128, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.18, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 74d0da7907b1ea407915b1cf127c9f9a Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] FW: Adam Roach's Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:09:21 -0000 DQpIaSwNCkFkYW0gbWFkZSB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGNvbW1lbnQgaW4gdGhlIElFU0cgcmV2aWV3 Lg0KSSB0aGluayB0aGF0IGhpcyBpbnRlcnByZXRhdGlvbiBpcyBjb3JyZWN0IGFuZCB0aGUgaW50 ZW50aW9uIGlzICIgbG9jYWwgdG8gdGhpcyBSVFAgc2Vzc2lvbiIgaGF2aW5nIHRoZSBzYW1lIGlk IGluIHRoZSBvZmZlciBhbmQgYW5zd2VyDQpXaGF0IGlzIHlvdXIgdmlldz8NCg0KVGhhbmtzDQpS b25pDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCkNPTU1FTlQ6DQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoNClRoZSB1c2Ug b2YgdGhlIHRlcm0gImxvY2FsIiBpbiB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGlzIGltcGxpY2l0IGFuZCB0aGVy ZWZvcmUgY29uZnVzaW5nLiBTZWN0aW9uIDUgcmVmZXJzIHRvICJsb2NhbCBpZGVudGlmaWVyIChJ 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X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: Ilh+WTWdDQ6QXWOt3dQRVzUEKQ2wAkmt6PKbVVRbXbYc 1498036401 Received: from [192.168.0.6] (cpc121086-nmal24-2-0-cust54.19-2.cable.virginm.net [77.97.145.55]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6D99E24753; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 05:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: iPad Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB466@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:36:52 +0100 Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "avt@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <246EEFE0-D1E4-45A2-A455-58599FDA68DA@fastmail.fm> References: <149797808384.24922.16736269841062630572.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB466@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> To: Roni Even Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:13:26 -0000 Hi Roni, > On 21 Jun 2017, at 06:23, Roni Even wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alexey Melnikov [mailto:aamelnikov@fastmail.fm] >> Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=92 20 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 20:01 >> To: The IESG >> Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; avtcore- >> chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; avt@ietf.org >> Subject: Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis= - >> 12: (with COMMENT) >>=20 >> Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: No Objection >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all ema= il >> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introdu= ctory >> paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html= >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> In general this is a well written document, but I have a small list of is= sues that >> you should consider fixing: >>=20 >> In Section 5: >>=20 >> When SDP signaling is used for the RTP session, it is the presence of >> the 'extmap' attribute(s) that is diagnostic that this style of >> header extensions is used, not the magic number indicated above. >>=20 >> You lost me here. Which magic number do you mean here? > [Roni Even] This is "the defined by profile" part of the header extension (= rfc3550) specified above as "BEDE" or "100" > This text was in RFC5285 which this document will replace. I can clarify > ", not the magic number ("BEDE" or "100") indicated above" This is clearer, thank you. >> In Section 7: >>=20 >> If an extension is marked as "sendonly" and the answerer desires to >> receive it, the extension MUST be marked as "recvonly" in the SDP >> answer. An answerer that has no desire to receive the extension or >> does not understand the extension SHOULD remove it from the SDP >> answer. >>=20 >> Why is this not a MUST? > [Roni Even] This text was already in RFC5285.=20 This is not an excuse :-). Let me rephrase: what are the possible reasons to violate the SHOULD? Leavin= g this as SHOULD is fine, but adding some examples on reasons to violate it w= ould be much better. >>=20 >> If an extension is marked as "recvonly" and the answerer desires to >> send it, the extension MUST be marked as "sendonly" in the SDP >> answer. An answerer that has no desire to, or is unable to, send the >> extension SHOULD remove it from the SDP answer. >>=20 >> As above. > [Roni Even] This text was already in RFC5285. As above. >>=20 >> In Section 9: >>=20 >> In order to prevent DOS attacks, for >> example, by changing the header extension integrity protection SHOULD >> be used. >>=20 >> I can't parse this sentence. > [Roni Even] thanks, will " In order to prevent DOS attacks, for > example, by changing the header extension, integrity protection SHOULD > be used." work better? I think it is a bit better. Is this saying "In order to prevent DOS attacks,= integrity protection SHOULD be used." and that "by changing the header exte= nsion" is one way to do the DOS?= From nobody Wed Jun 21 04:41:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0E6D129B09 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 04:41:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.212 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.212 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id meR7ji5Woyhf for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 04:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7323129AEA for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 04:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DPO19806; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:41:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.211) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 12:41:12 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.211]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:40:58 +0800 From: Roni Even To: "singer@apple.com" CC: "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS6ebdaYxMtHRrskWv1DfvFTQQXaIvMaww Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:40:58 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB606@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149797808384.24922.16736269841062630572.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149797808384.24922.16736269841062630572.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.55] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Wed, 21 Jun 2017 08:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 21 Jun 2017 08:40:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=A3Nwhk+Sk+kK74hOYi xPi5big1n1seIE0HOEaQUxNFc=; b=Yds9qeQW4/ogdKvTgWzC4WLnAlF/L2u7aT SaoWAxxb0UJIXfLqoA6H+mD4hGDsKJ0lB/XNWandMzDqyS5eduVX5Ag4ieQ+rCgU KQs+iAhv+px5QXI7xMQhnVG71rOm2BsZQlwu+slArTQUnv4L6aHBY2xCckroaCYr DCYJXokleubGNRBULwufJ2rACY99Ewp8/cRHKAlvx5xTn4u2BSq6zSZ4xyXxvGC2 kSWX0MPID5kpTjg/uBCVFTzfrtZdD58B7yPyjXmMFvaBEebX1qX3FQ1ewpRGfGB9 SIZyXA8UnrQeLJqKwIngTuEVx26i4s8paIJx8OSXNA7iM+Si7iPg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; bh=A3Nwhk+Sk+kK74hOYixPi5big1n1seIE0HOEaQUxNFc=; b=WdGi+oB5 /w7FluZWfDTM9RSKfnRRvXVvc+Yp70XA3u+7znag9xSrrjXcxaWWCh/Pxd1RtxBm 2INx0m83FNhgg4X/d6Ko3qZsrOz+zE9jxphI+eGQR7uXqWNa/45x/wQgd6dP2uaI LMMBYtDCmFM8eWxchUDpQCAD9s7xmB0K8wEsf9Qedw73ddZ16sroGtTEPOyLuO0/ 3Dgo5ufvKSKdHYRv8cMwvNZ+Aq50IKNbyWYyxG0sQW+1OXtEssM1asPWA7CMiRuI TeK15mTU2jwYDRvZ1eic24wmX9v+xmaa302sz0Mp3sbPuCMrB+j6Y9EbYHELVR1+ kxEl6iNDsG0zTA== X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: itJ/ptr3TDFKr0mEZ/bq17/ujEC/lFwQWT3DFNT5sVg4 1498048809 Received: from sjc-alcoop-8812.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.241.191]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id E023A24234; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 08:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7BF765@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 08:40:06 -0400 Cc: Vijay Gurbani , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis.all@ietf.org" , "avt@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <149444109463.16649.17140517108290058073@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7BF765@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> To: Roni Even X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-11 X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 12:40:13 -0000 Vijay, thank you for your review. Roni, thanks for agreeing to make the = changes. I have entered a Yes ballot position on this document. Alissa > On May 11, 2017, at 2:35 AM, Roni Even wrote: >=20 > Hi Vijay, > Thanks, I will fix these two nits > Roni >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vijay Gurbani [mailto:vijay.gurbani@nokia.com] >> Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=93 10 =D7=9E=D7=90=D7=99 2017 21:32 >> To: gen-art@ietf.org >> Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = avt@ietf.org >> Subject: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-11 >>=20 >> Reviewer: Vijay Gurbani >> Review result: Ready with Nits >>=20 >> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area = Review >> Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG = for >> the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last = call >> comments. >>=20 >> For more information, please see the FAQ at >>=20 >> . >>=20 >> Document: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-11 >> Reviewer: Vijay Gurbani >> Review Date: 2017-05-10 >> IETF LC End Date: 2017-04-20 >> IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat >>=20 >> Summary: Ready with nits. >>=20 >> Major issues: 0 >>=20 >> Minor issues: 0 >>=20 >> Nits/editorial comments: >> - S5: s/An example (this is only an example), where/An example where/ >> (I suspect that the reader will get the idea that this is only an >> example. There are a couple of occurrence of this in S5.) >>=20 >> - S6: s/When doing SDP Offer/When engaging in SDP Offer/ >>=20 >> Thanks! >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Wed Jun 21 06:07:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF38129AD7 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:07:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ykv4NvTWtfF for ; 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Received: from relay21.apple.com (relay21.apple.com [17.171.128.102]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail-in21.apple.com (Apple Secure Mail Relay) with SMTP id C3.71.03314.99F6A495; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:07:38 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11ab0215-aa5ff70000000cf2-6c-594a6f99bb1f Received: from ma1-mmpp-sz11.apple.com (ma1-mmpp-sz11.apple.com [17.171.128.33]) by relay21.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id 45.3F.07147.99F6A495; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:07:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Received: from [17.234.160.126] by ma1-mmpp-sz11.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170210 64bit (built Feb 10 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0ORW00L7PF4OD320@ma1-mmpp-sz11.apple.com>; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Sender: singer@apple.com From: David Singer In-reply-to: <149797808384.24922.16736269841062630572.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:07:36 -0400 Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, avt@ietf.org Message-id: <929F9FE1-F237-43FF-9738-DC592F2D6165@apple.com> References: <149797808384.24922.16736269841062630572.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrCLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiuLohTXdWvlekwbLXshb73x9isnjZs5Ld Yt/mlawWO16/YrGY8Wcis8Wl9feYHNg8fn29yuax89QBNo8lS34yBTBHcdmkpOZklqUW6dsl cGU03D7KUnBGqOLzq90sDYzH+boYOTkkBEwkVvy4y9TFyMUhJLCeSeL3nFtMMIkt1z6xgthC AocYJa6s8wexeQUEJX5MvsfSxcjBwSwgL3HwvCxImFlAS+L7o1YWiDnfGCVuXZnBApIQFpCQ +PhxMpSdJLH82hxGEJtNQFXiwZxjYDangL/E36+/GEFmsgDFF53PBJnDLLCEUWLv6ulsEHtt JJZvu8IOcY+fxJHtEHNEBHQkjh1+CXWzrMSt2ZeYQZolBJawSWzbfI59AqPwLCR3z0K4exaS uxcwMq9iFM5NzMzRzcwzMtRLLCjISdVLzs/dxAiOBibRHYzzXxkeYhTgYFTi4Y1Q9owUYk0s K67MPcQozcGiJM7rsxkoJJCeWJKanZpakFoUX1Sak1p8iJGJg1OqgVFEcdY+NfPciFBV2TO6 tpdal2xh3niqSfHZslMrvS/aCh59IrziwHvu/jdh0xrTrYUmtbiH1P5j72i4uPXBQZOlZ/m/ hm3Jms/240qPuN280Bu52d+8GlWnXTW52Gf528w/vX92wi87JY3LW90atcPY32xIl1/xa8F+ pz0Xv7LvOXZ5ziKBe0pKLMUZiYZazEXFiQDJpwUvZwIAAA== X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrOLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiuLpBUXdmvlekQdc6c4v97w8xWbzsWclu sW/zSlaLHa9fsVjM+DOR2eLS+ntMDmwev75eZfPYeeoAm8eSJT+ZApijuGxSUnMyy1KL9O0S uDIabh9lKTgjVPH51W6WBsbjfF2MnBwSAiYSW659YgWxhQQOMUpcWecPYvMKCEr8mHyPpYuR g4NZQF7i4HlZkDCzgJbE90etQGEuoPJvjBK3rsxgAUkIC0hIfPw4GcpOklh+bQ4jiM0moCrx YM4xMJtTwF/i79dfjCAzWYDii85ngsxhFljCKLF39XQ2iL02Esu3XWGHuMdP4sh2iDkiAjoS xw6/ZIK4WVbi1uxLzBMYBWYhOXUWwqmzkJy6gJF5FaNgUWpOYqWRoV5iQUFOql5yfu4mRkjw pu1g/H/O8BCjAAejEg9vhLJnpBBrYllxZS4wLDiYlUR4N+Z4RQrxpiRWVqUW5ccXleakFh9i lOZgURLnLZsOVC2QnliSmp2aWpBaBJNl4uCUamBk+ic4L+BXM9+T1QaiBSEFL0+qze6faHrt RqLYlWhL/brP3tW6Xomyz/Q2SeY6vfZ+vmpytts77uqENxlr/tlV9KszVBTK3p7rI2UUcYHp N8P2xoWHj5l29rl+MlXiydQVWySx1Pb5h/bDS4IXPc7xr1U/ftD5YXLXHaVzVev89jUm7Krx /a3EUpyRaKjFXFScCACn15F2WgIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:07:43 -0000 > On Jun 20, 2017, at 13:01 , Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > In general this is a well written document, but I have a small list of issues > that you should consider fixing: > > In Section 5: > > When SDP signaling is used for the RTP session, it is the presence of > the 'extmap' attribute(s) that is diagnostic that this style of > header extensions is used, not the magic number indicated above. > > You lost me here. Which magic number do you mean here? The one in the RTP packet header > > In Section 7: > > If an extension is marked as "sendonly" and the answerer desires to > receive it, the extension MUST be marked as "recvonly" in the SDP > answer. An answerer that has no desire to receive the extension or > does not understand the extension SHOULD remove it from the SDP > answer. > > Why is this not a MUST? > > If an extension is marked as "recvonly" and the answerer desires to > send it, the extension MUST be marked as "sendonly" in the SDP > answer. An answerer that has no desire to, or is unable to, send the > extension SHOULD remove it from the SDP answer. > > As above. > > In Section 9: > > In order to prevent DOS attacks, for > example, by changing the header extension integrity protection SHOULD > be used. > > I can't parse this sentence. looks like a missing comma In order to prevent DOS attacks, for example, by changing the header extension, integrity protection SHOULD be used. > > David Singer Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. From nobody Wed Jun 21 06:10:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D31B5126B71 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:10:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Ws64hGBLmZp for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x22f.google.com (mail-yw0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F2DC129ADC for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id 63so64109511ywr.0 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:10:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QOFe4ZVRKoiYv7VQWO2m4cTR/511es2oSXwou4l9Scc=; b=vnpqgDewI+RFvqVHfvtcbpyM4WOa4tAqO4WKmcmpihr2ay4gssdA2/3OrwYW+DCx56 I+hS0CoPEe3FFM0MBRiMwC5gleYalFvsl0DlEImSXtUtopjgacSJNApJkNjuuoL9tUBV lA6Gyxi8JpK+Yv6LBcqY0G8sfAkoA4rM2s039wma45pvnRd4+n9x63HH0HnYEGhT0lR3 ANazOqZ1ttOD+ND+ZuP5bsWab7kPBryCoh5e6do+rZeOtgxZLJ0jZbp5BqySSy2pHiNM vKxcGquxz0DqZGLFAxM60/5kWr6uffazHOFneEhwPiiEg4UYtPnhXOJq6HVomRsZa4mp he9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QOFe4ZVRKoiYv7VQWO2m4cTR/511es2oSXwou4l9Scc=; b=GIeARDepY5ZwxeVBvK0/2soXdRPr/ZrD96W39DYxFSVO9y2Q7hc+PyReWYKO2HNES3 bfIff+fgqLwkqpM/jtmja/aCUN3yrY49c8keEofRJGTsOIjU9Bxse8206jW9NhUIrvVa IC8dZFKPXZwRgmmwzpn8ZhNrm/Iv+MNRYKTvMZA+oszNuFye5PZSuT1H8k2DrqivuniQ 3sNs2mvGGXcD46mfsES3QOQEy3XJjodmIbmobSKXaL2sow/WIBFgwu24qMLt8qhTy2J3 hgqKaB8rRBC2cmgXZ6TvjCrOQf3VCvhVbtXgiCxxSS96ayG1+sr8gaWeMWwG+w4ruPB8 8r6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzVBiE/tCJehkqqD8pdl+ocCey2GkOO9BWsssWX+GOY5Mi3kwbN AvT1aMQ0Jn0eujRzjUI6cNWb5eHPb7QP X-Received: by 10.129.43.68 with SMTP id r65mr25772320ywr.24.1498050626714; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:10:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.13.215.9 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:09:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB44A@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149791884335.23828.13769788810069405479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB44A@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:09:46 -0700 Message-ID: To: Roni Even Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" , "avt@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1141e79876316105527817e9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:10:30 -0000 --001a1141e79876316105527817e9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Roni Even wrote: > Hi, > Inline > Roni > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.com] > > Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=92 20 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 03:34 > > To: The IESG > > Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; avtcore= - > > chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; avt@ietf.org > > Subject: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: > (with > > DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email > > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory > > paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria. > html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Why are you allowing this extension to be "normal" in BUNDLE? > > If you're bundling, you should be modern enough to handle mixed, no? Wh= y > > not make life simple? > [Roni Even] I saw that Magnus responded to this one > Yes. I think this is the wrong decision, but I agree it's a WG decision. I'll clear my discuss. > > > > cipher. It can be noted that the default SRTP ciphers (AES CM 128 > > bits with HMAC-SHA1) are relative weak and more modern ciphers are > > stronger and should be considered. > > > > What's weak about AES-CTR-HMAC? I recognize that this was in the secdir > > review, but I'm not sure what claim you are making here. > [Roni Even] The default ciphers were defined in RFC5285, this document is > a bis draft so we did not want to change the default ciphers for backward > interoperability. > I discussed the issue of ciphers with Magnus when responding to the secdi= r > review. In general we claimed that this is not the document in which we > change ciphers discussed in RFC3711 (SRTP) and RFC 6904 (header extension= s > encryption). > So this text is just a note . If you can suggest some other text to > clarify this note I will be happy to use it. > I would just remove the note. -Ekr > > > > > > --001a1141e79876316105527817e9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com> wrote:
Hi,
Inline
Roni

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.c= om]
> Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D=C2=A0=D7=92 20 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 = 03:34
> To: The IESG
> Cc: draft-i= etf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; avtcore-
> chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com= ; avt@ietf.org
> Subject: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with
> DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
> Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email
> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this intr= oductory
> paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/i= esg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
> DISCUSS:
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>
> Why are you allowing this extension to be "normal" in BUNDLE= ?
> If you're bundling, you should be modern enough to handle mixed, n= o? Why
> not make life simple?
[Roni Even] I saw that Magnus responded to this one
=

Yes. I think this is the wrong decision, but I agree it= 's a WG decision. I'll clear
my discuss.
=C2=A0=


>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 cipher.=C2=A0 It can be noted that the default SRTP ciphe= rs (AES CM 128
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bits with HMAC-SHA1) are relative weak and more modern ci= phers are
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 stronger and should be considered.
>
> What's weak about AES-CTR-HMAC? I recognize that this was in the s= ecdir
> review, but I'm not sure what claim you are making here.
[Roni Even] The default ciphers were defined in RFC5285, this docume= nt is a bis draft so we did not want to change the default ciphers for back= ward interoperability.
I discussed the issue of ciphers with Magnus when responding to the secdir = review. In general we claimed that this is not the document in which we cha= nge ciphers discussed in RFC3711 (SRTP) and RFC 6904 (header extensions enc= ryption).
So this text is just a note . If you can suggest some other text to clarify= this note I will be happy to use it.

I= would just remove the note.

-Ekr




>


--001a1141e79876316105527817e9-- From nobody Wed Jun 21 06:16:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C29E129AC1 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:16:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F0JsdQFcZKMd for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-in22.apple.com (mail-out22.apple.com [17.171.2.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45630129B06 for ; 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Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:16:23 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11ab0216-c35fb70000000ab4-6c-594a71a6dbb8 Received: from ma1-mmpp-sz10.apple.com (ma1-mmpp-sz10.apple.com [17.171.128.150]) by relay26.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id D1.D3.07088.5A17A495; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:16:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Received: from [17.234.160.126] by ma1-mmpp-sz10.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170210 64bit (built Feb 10 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0ORW00GKPFJ8SS30@ma1-mmpp-sz10.apple.com>; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Sender: singer@apple.com From: David Singer In-reply-to: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:16:20 -0400 Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, avt@ietf.org Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Spencer Dawkins X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrKLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiuLohW3d5oVekwZvPbBYve1ayW+zbvJLV YsfrVywWM/5MZLa4tP4ek8WyKXuYHdg8fn29yuaxc9Zddo8lS34yBTBHcdmkpOZklqUW6dsl cGUsOHuOsaCfv2LBii/sDYzLeboYOTkkBEwkjs/9w9zFyMUhJLCeSWLxsnYghwMsMemrN0T8 MKPE9o6HjCANvAKCEj8m32MBqWEWUJeYMiUXouYbo8SvbSeYQGqEBSQkPn6czAJhR0isXXke zGYTUJV4MOcY2BxOAX+J0ztWg8VZgOI/F/1kBBnELLCEUWLv6ulsIAlmAW2JJ+8usEIstpFY 13cFbIGQgJ/E89YFzCC2iICxxJdrr9ggvpGVuDX7Etg3EgIr2CS+3jrINIFReBaSw2chHD4L yYoFjMyrGIVzEzNzdDPzjIz0EgsKclL1kvNzNzGC44FJbAfjvdeGhxgFOBiVeHgjlD0jhVgT y4orcw8xSnOwKInz+mwGCgmkJ5akZqemFqQWxReV5qQWH2Jk4uCUamCsfs2W+XJ13x+Dg+vn LRY6N6ugcpPN7GN2zx3UZHZ8t9l0qivBnulwbvQiVpbckg5jRnOX2X5rJLM3sYex/19suWGO 97uQbae//PC4fPrpZ2GBKdUmEbf6zB28vqcv++y9VOyqYY32pHN8Ahcz1/CGrHgl8/ley9r9 MhP5AgP6NzIoWIRMVcpXYinOSDTUYi4qTgQAjtvrt2gCAAA= X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiuLphmu6yQq9Ig+87WCxe9qxkt9i3eSWr xY7Xr1gsZvyZyGxxaf09JotlU/YwO7B5/Pp6lc1j56y77B5LlvxkCmCO4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL 4MpYcPYcY0E/f8WCFV/YGxiX83QxcnBICJhITPrq3cXIxSEkcJhRYnvHQ8YuRk4OXgFBiR+T 77GA1DALqEtMmZILUfONUeLXthNMIDXCAhISHz9OZoGwIyTWrjwPZrMJqEo8mHMMbA6ngL/E 6R2rweIsQPGfi34yggxiFljCKLF39XQ2kASzgLbEk3cXWCEW20is67sCtkBIwE/ieesCZhBb RMBY4su1V2D1EgKyErdmX2KewCgwC8mtsxBunYVk6gJG5lWMgkWpOYmVRmZ6iQUFOal6yfm5 mxgh4Zu9g/HkPbNDjAIcjEo8vBHKnpFCrIllxZW5hxglOJiVRHjDgcEvxJuSWFmVWpQfX1Sa k1p8iFGag0VJnLdsOlC1QHpiSWp2ampBahFMlomDU6qBMSktoOaXCN+ZB/3zDxT3xJaVvXA8 KX6z6Fzo+9THX6NlXuceePPac27I+jl7orXiEjrZ8ndmOD11NhPJu6I624XZUJ+xo8e6MExy 6iq7KVN/a2j/kOP5/W5tT5TMA8VNfF8vTZixeV/Kc33F4xrZx75nrBdtv/Ot+7krp5MQ/wb7 szMncr3NV2Ipzkg01GIuKk4EAPGzBDlbAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:16:29 -0000 > On Jun 19, 2017, at 16:51 , Spencer Dawkins = wrote: >=20 > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions. >=20 > I couldn't parse this sentence. >=20 > "A transmitter may be aware that > an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case, the > transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form." >=20 > I think >=20 > In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit value required > by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled in the RTP > specification as "defined by profile", MUST have the fixed bit > pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification was written > on the feast day of the Venerable Bede). >=20 > is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't = studied > English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more = likely, > just say "May 25" so it's not a mystery? Not sure that saying =E2=80=9CIt says BEDE because the first draft was = written on May 25th=E2=80=9D would be any clearer. Does it matter? >=20 >=20 David Singer Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. From nobody Wed Jun 21 06:46:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAD31129B1E for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:46:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uafwZM3MCSay for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x22f.google.com (mail-ua0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CED46127B57 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id z22so17405392uah.1 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:46:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pWZpcJcrBuZ+jNz4U4lDdDdXfBtxnSRdZM9bbbSYMtM=; b=2Ij6xnCuBSGi6UNOmYlUmZ18oN80T6GMQ69HPcuxthjcTgWYmCL/cLTIlswncK4azZ aKC2YM9B5bVpzrF74fCdz0orz1ZPIIQIwPRcIBgfQme2JmIeiUjhhAJxEwYiKKvyqP6/ uUtHsrdeXxpWtv5INHmFz+WJeyqyc/t8t99WsUJQVHUEvnlsT80WzBovm0s0bSfEswBU PMhWqo2IiWOwciQYgJ/DNg1UjlSW5ahib9I2YjJai4IfwPE46tZjnhNcqj7kqZKcwnVR +a79MXImGUu+uMgPFHYDFtCZRhsz3VSISUsCEjWy0O/xBbb7ek0sIPQ2MRw1BMg855v0 JHuw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pWZpcJcrBuZ+jNz4U4lDdDdXfBtxnSRdZM9bbbSYMtM=; b=R9h00qf0JoTSYjaJsI6DGYwjqi6Sc/RJrV9DBAt4YhSqndnQgkv5Z1lp8KrmyuN0P9 iLqdnQVzf/QUECEzLca7uhYKiwhMKxXW66OmHDwTZNY176r9XNr8O25IdxROjFJz9FZF Y1lnlWgxFUT/MteC3CuLaNobvzGx4js/3w5jySmPcr7YfpSxuXlF7GZVFQBq93mkFIE4 riZkbhHcvGQSjgD1DavB+s7zWp8ayztkwfUgg2r4kiaGUyRNM4MFYGqFNJ9aJJOYfwu5 FxXUK7Rwl3hJdL7cwu9hnpj4y+3w0Eo8npN9pizPuXeG20M7lz8I12cNs2CAubEjQmkV gcjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzHlHI/FmwUEs+RD/pJ2oVGlLZNvu3Z+tLLDOVaHDrYhGNZP0Fq MGoK6Bnw2e9wwa9+ZzM/zQVi6bhcsgc+ X-Received: by 10.176.77.196 with SMTP id b4mr19058211uah.76.1498052765792; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:46:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.39.165 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:45:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Warren Kumari Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:45:25 -0400 Message-ID: To: David Singer Cc: Spencer Dawkins , avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , The IESG , avt@ietf.org, draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:46:09 -0000 On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 9:16 AM, David Singer wrote: > >> On Jun 19, 2017, at 16:51 , Spencer Dawkins wrote: >> >> Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >> >> >> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.htm= l >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions. >> >> I couldn't parse this sentence. >> >> "A transmitter may be aware that >> an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case, the >> transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form." >> >> I think >> >> In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit value required >> by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled in the RTP >> specification as "defined by profile", MUST have the fixed bit >> pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification was written >> on the feast day of the Venerable Bede). >> >> is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't studi= ed >> English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more like= ly, >> just say "May 25" so it's not a mystery? > > Not sure that saying =E2=80=9CIt says BEDE because the first draft was wr= itten on May 25th=E2=80=9D would be any clearer. No, but it would make a somewhat obtuse joke significantly more so. Depending on how perverted your sense of humor is, this may or may not be a feature :-) W > Does it matter? > >> >> > > David Singer > Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. > --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Wed Jun 21 06:53:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE095129ACC; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:52:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EmAwBoKH7_GB; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x234.google.com (mail-wr0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B711129B1E; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x234.google.com with SMTP id c11so80650965wrc.3; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:52:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=2b6UGtbRJd8ETOgvMN9JtktSbT7pBlLsBTyQtK4tmk4=; b=VH2N2CrDasf6EeJTvlU/exdnRhJg+jZTJKcC6GmvKKpdJAdL4q/xWq52/UCI2gOYOe GbPJTC0hHyVKJ0xfbwmsUAwNOk+PS3UAvzJWr3n/8DjOVYNIaY3xOGf7KNMbbutPC/1Z OhAOOMxvhfkrOUUNGb+PjFs3Wh1wWHHU04eeS+CWclG7/VC/pme7QNim+dd/jn87dsk6 eOU59ErufsUk7bIwId4GdTUAds+kcrNrcJQSwQJ1MG+Tj+BM8cylbh7XURE9RIJKJFiL WzBZXN4yMsijg8lSvnjIGjsZea40U5UXneB+Ti3Xkz451SV2uH2CF/Ex7f1DvVmLJwPv 0mOw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=2b6UGtbRJd8ETOgvMN9JtktSbT7pBlLsBTyQtK4tmk4=; b=Ow6WW3z6pxroHlATVxl1D8pqsOfcorgzV56TbACKiHp1B15XAvdbsYFlYH84N9Ceok b31jKU21qLl+QN7IXMuXxmSuq8N3LWm9GMAYWiwz0s2YV60gofV13DjXW1GGm/8cJuxh 6BXvlBEekPxJh0iECCithrFjjHsLUv20LfziTswSsD//Al9l/T9DAW/CXpaMnnwrJuP1 hypnFW38glqpErbXxYDr6YN5ScW+RuXPEOViljc7+8aNvaYFYX4PqGX/nYt3e/Zu9WHq WnYPnioME8hDzAXn1TNBUdG26x28U5ai7/PCIg/4tJ0LyG2oPtf4aOoqiG4+kRy7iU59 FlMA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOztz7Ja3GHYyVyzyV+Bvsh9xShxBL0tXwPuOW8rXU/7zko6GseN U5JzSlhyHhjT5pGI X-Received: by 10.223.128.80 with SMTP id 74mr24877029wrk.9.1498053168864; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniPC (bzq-79-178-55-45.red.bezeqint.net. [79.178.55.45]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b131sm13449233wma.11.2017.06.21.06.52.46 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:52:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Eric Rescorla'" , "'Roni Even'" Cc: , , "'The IESG'" , , References: <149791884335.23828.13769788810069405479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB44A@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:51:36 +0300 Message-ID: <027001d2ea95$813693b0$83a3bb10$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0271_01D2EAAE.A684B610" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHcEm2qVoF9EAIfs24hgH3AWm6lEQHvZfW5Ai2WXYyh/B3pEA== Content-Language: he Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:52:55 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0271_01D2EAAE.A684B610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,=20 I have no problem to remove the note, I also see no value there. It is = there because of the secdir review Roni =20 From: avt [mailto:avt-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Rescorla Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 4:10 PM To: Roni Even Cc: avtcore-chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; The IESG; = avt@ietf.org; draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on = draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) =20 =20 =20 On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Roni Even = wrote: Hi, Inline Roni > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.com] > Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=92 20 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 03:34 > To: The IESG > Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; = avtcore- > chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; avt@ietf.org > Subject: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: = (with > DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Discuss > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory > paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Why are you allowing this extension to be "normal" in BUNDLE? > If you're bundling, you should be modern enough to handle mixed, no? = Why > not make life simple? [Roni Even] I saw that Magnus responded to this one =20 Yes. I think this is the wrong decision, but I agree it's a WG decision. = I'll clear my discuss. =20 > cipher. It can be noted that the default SRTP ciphers (AES CM 128 > bits with HMAC-SHA1) are relative weak and more modern ciphers are > stronger and should be considered. > > What's weak about AES-CTR-HMAC? I recognize that this was in the = secdir > review, but I'm not sure what claim you are making here. [Roni Even] The default ciphers were defined in RFC5285, this document = is a bis draft so we did not want to change the default ciphers for = backward interoperability. I discussed the issue of ciphers with Magnus when responding to the = secdir review. In general we claimed that this is not the document in = which we change ciphers discussed in RFC3711 (SRTP) and RFC 6904 (header = extensions encryption). So this text is just a note . If you can suggest some other text to = clarify this note I will be happy to use it. =20 I would just remove the note. =20 -Ekr =20 > =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0271_01D2EAAE.A684B610 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

I have no problem to remove the note, I also see no value there. It = is there because of the secdir review

Roni

 

From:= = avt [mailto:avt-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric = Rescorla
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 4:10 PM
To: = Roni Even
Cc: avtcore-chairs@ietf.org; = magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; The IESG; avt@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] = Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with = DISCUSS and COMMENT)

 

 

 

On Tue, = Jun 20, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi,
Inline
Roni

> -----Original = Message-----
> From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.com]
> Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=92 20 = =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 03:34
> To: The IESG
> = Cc: draft-ietf-avtcor= e-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; avtcore-
> chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson= .com; avt@ietf.org
> = Subject: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: = (with
> DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
> Eric Rescorla has = entered the following ballot position for
> = draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Discuss
>
> When = responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email
> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to = cut this introductory
> paragraph, = however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.ht= ml
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT = positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot = positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc= 5285-bis/
>
>
>
> = ----------------------------------------------------------------------> DISCUSS:
> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------->
> Why are you allowing this extension to be = "normal" in BUNDLE?
> If you're bundling, you should be = modern enough to handle mixed, no? Why
> not make life = simple?
[Roni Even] I saw that Magnus responded to this = one

 

Yes. I think this is the wrong decision, but I agree = it's a WG decision. I'll clear

my discuss.

 



>    cipher.  It can be = noted that the default SRTP ciphers (AES CM 128
>    = bits with HMAC-SHA1) are relative weak and more modern ciphers = are
>    stronger and should be = considered.
>
> What's weak about AES-CTR-HMAC? I recognize = that this was in the secdir
> review, but I'm not sure what claim = you are making here.
[Roni Even] The default ciphers were defined in = RFC5285, this document is a bis draft so we did not want to change the = default ciphers for backward interoperability.
I discussed the issue = of ciphers with Magnus when responding to the secdir review. In general = we claimed that this is not the document in which we change ciphers = discussed in RFC3711 (SRTP) and RFC 6904 (header extensions = encryption).
So this text is just a note . If you can suggest some = other text to clarify this note I will be happy to use = it.

 

I = would just remove the note.

 

-Ekr

 




>

 

------=_NextPart_000_0271_01D2EAAE.A684B610-- From nobody Wed Jun 21 07:17:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC31E129B35; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:17:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nbV4IYyGn_s0; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x22e.google.com (mail-yw0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67739127A91; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id 63so64902701ywr.0; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:17:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QCIW2e/BjzIPsc4X8/0N7h6SbXXirGWQcvd9IAVpEYg=; b=g5mEIIRQB/284qfLgfD4ZfFgPwdqJJYVi+9bBlRDEKLCCSL2t/qvh4ikJDIuhFRGSH Ekr0MvRPN9BVHH484KI7S8h1RkYIcqcDC28PBhCDKLzTrE1wBNlLLqyxCJx3fLNacCKM aM8/n4LS2Yuq1klRqzozPM+S5Zrem+9dK4C5FbFQbZjsrKR7zRkUF7HIjMyRfx+Qi+B2 kZMOHxY7BZCtfSnYrozuLStzhsrN6dSlFRC8kSsFX0s9wW8OmHWGgGQcBaA8jnJGNRe7 2FpAwUKjSEAKPSuiVy2Ln9j6hG4hagLRkIJeLNoBQ+wG8rcZRgwrbvWIvTYXcaeNu5kv G7Pw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QCIW2e/BjzIPsc4X8/0N7h6SbXXirGWQcvd9IAVpEYg=; b=c5GN9oNMcVdEDIRxaNI3IILW0u03HNsIfuBRFrErHfBMHTQ9g2rpMVkZmPADgR5Y3I jkCuk7Oc3HGhQbDLfNwqWO/cYI68kSmgwEGasZXwcCMczjtOO2C8KT67pwOCdAVvMCQi wUymZZsDuXWluRMfctth9JwZjs2fN15aIyjJxQjoPT9sFeOaSk6SlFZVeuiMzrL8/PkQ T4EIyYPy6prPTeeDKasWDRYBUMWyuPn8nHmB7/DR7Ubt5QAn8mTOedITr6l7gg6XQRO6 HxIMQiDzTWgq8CUPt3xyqMnBI+njjD2d+kaaHk9+mxpbxArbN6PEuYLtv8kjnUtzajIQ MDzg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwU3BzL0z3FDjYtTqh3f7bpEIAeBfKhFkyygGfNub0s7mWl2e2Z 94vloCo13/5G6Zo8XXJi5DTyndngIg== X-Received: by 10.13.202.20 with SMTP id m20mr22258952ywd.21.1498054647475; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:17:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.104.144 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.104.144 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:17:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:17:26 -0500 Message-ID: To: David Singer Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org, avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, avt@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114f0cfe1e1e010552790763" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:17:33 -0000 --001a114f0cfe1e1e010552790763 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. On Jun 21, 2017 08:16, "David Singer" wrote: > On Jun 19, 2017, at 16:51 , Spencer Dawkins wrote: > > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions. > > I couldn't parse this sentence. > > "A transmitter may be aware that > an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case, the > transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form." > > I think > > In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit value required > by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled in the RTP > specification as "defined by profile", MUST have the fixed bit > pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification was written > on the feast day of the Venerable Bede). > > is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't studie= d > English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more likely, > just say "May 25" so it's not a mystery? Not sure that saying =E2=80=9CIt says BEDE because the first draft was writ= ten on May 25th=E2=80=9D would be any clearer. Does it matter? I meant "the first version of this specification was written on May 25th, t= he feast day of the Venerable Bede". Does it matter? Probably not. Do I hope we don't signal to readers of IETF specifications that they can skip the parts they don't understand? I do ... But do the right thing, of course. Spencer > > David Singer Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. --001a114f0cfe1e1e010552790763 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm sorry, I wasn't clear.

On Jun 21, 2017 08:16, "Da= vid Singer" <singer@apple.com> wrote:

> On Jun 19, 2017, at 16:51 , Spencer Dawkins <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote= :
>
> Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<= br> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi= s
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/i= esg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
> COMMENT:
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>
> I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions.
>
> I couldn't parse this sentence.
>
>=C2=A0 "A transmitter may be aware that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case= , the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form."
>
> I think
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit valu= e required
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled i= n the RTP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0specification as "defined by profile", MUST have= the fixed bit
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification wa= s written
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0on the feast day of the Venerable Bede).
>
> is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't= studied
> English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more li= kely,
> just say "May 25" so it's not a mystery?

Not sure that saying =E2=80=9CIt says BEDE because the first draft wa= s written on May 25th=E2=80=9D would be any clearer.=C2=A0 Does it matter?<= br>

I meant "the first version= of this specification was written on May 25th,=C2=A0the feast day of the Venerable Bede".

Does it matter?= Probably not.=C2=A0

Do I hope we don't signal to readers of IETF specificatio= ns that they can skip the parts they don't understand? I do ...<= /div>

But do the rig= ht thing, of course.

Spencer

>
>

David Singer
Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.


--001a114f0cfe1e1e010552790763-- From nobody Wed Jun 21 07:20:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BAD4129B3F for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:20:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3z6642fA6Pzn for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x233.google.com (mail-ua0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4994A126C22 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x233.google.com with SMTP id j53so99873838uaa.2 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:20:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8viVbufR0BnVHCexlst2UJjQ51elJrzsnChpM6yPzhA=; b=NpmWDBm5ps/ytmT/vZ6PN7xUadkOmdC1W12LH5M0o45A5DDY2GqHIQaF8W16XnVRc9 I2J3fB0nmlZ2olA//4EsqPRMUdPr3d3fgLFi4HpONfb4aL4fpCFFYLNwclLiyT+poefr yCr0ADWi0mDPZI31/xGnIYZ/9le/gZxl3hH5OZTQOcfoTgPF6+Df0fHzjR5xgbapDzDJ mro2h7Qz5HxX+TGcywfbMKLUpWE+5Q+bmqQXrpMMkNGwVf7loyXOX3eITeEeVih2diW/ peJTWES2t2RgDTDNcq3Re4XnFwA6eIBtsxYI3tRpKzEIQOSwo+eyHYxHIx0DZHfPRM9I +z7A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8viVbufR0BnVHCexlst2UJjQ51elJrzsnChpM6yPzhA=; b=jugi4213Kvx8u2d7/TEhqeDSw5LpbezGhHh2eLxkK0SbyGin+5ENNYsrmz16yU3EPW yBk6FSgaU6bllyrUlsmIU78tmVzfsZyIo+KZw5BDS5N720n9LMqI+PIgKOsS4NISkHb4 zH07zzWb1DfPEcIcsN4N+Nie6b4oDZQmkLRa/R/NJYe3U0MtbR9JctZxN6yCb2a6sZdA SHVi5DrouN6sEWBg0GUuZvkOZBIzV+qBlpcVfXHw/OLVPsq7SlXogytAnbCZndV51iLa lBmvYbhK5kVjKY4TiJizMn8bJNr7SwjNB1sHg0KelSETFm+Fqr5xdtWvPxNR+mPaydaW PN3w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOx32AK1mhmwuZ2Tcrz2QmQN6BuE3EGJCm1TlSClvAfQurcgi6ap ppG6FKH3vkkx/u5RTomhhLLU//WAjnAJ X-Received: by 10.159.36.54 with SMTP id 51mr5893361uaq.133.1498054852294; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:20:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.39.165 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:20:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Warren Kumari Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:20:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Cc: David Singer , avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, avt@ietf.org, The IESG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:20:55 -0000 On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. > > > On Jun 21, 2017 08:16, "David Singer" wrote: > > >> On Jun 19, 2017, at 16:51 , Spencer Dawkins >> wrote: >> >> Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >> >> >> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.htm= l >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions. >> >> I couldn't parse this sentence. >> >> "A transmitter may be aware that >> an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case, the >> transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form." >> >> I think >> >> In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit value required >> by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled in the RTP >> specification as "defined by profile", MUST have the fixed bit >> pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification was written >> on the feast day of the Venerable Bede). >> >> is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't studi= ed >> English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more >> likely, >> just say "May 25" so it's not a mystery? > > Not sure that saying =E2=80=9CIt says BEDE because the first draft was wr= itten on > May 25th=E2=80=9D would be any clearer. Does it matter? > > > I meant "the first version of this specification was written on May 25th, > the feast day of the Venerable Bede". > Well, aren't I a silly bunny? That works, maintains the "joke", and is clea= r... W > Does it matter? Probably not. > > Do I hope we don't signal to readers of IETF specifications that they can > skip the parts they don't understand? I do ... > > But do the right thing, of course. > > Spencer > >> >> > > David Singer > Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. > > --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Wed Jun 21 07:42:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00133129BA8 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:42:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sc8ijCypIS9d for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:42:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-in21.apple.com (mail-out21.apple.com [17.171.2.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E640D129B94 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:42:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=apple.com; s=mailout2048s; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@apple.com; t=1498056146; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-id:To:Cc:MIME-version:Content-type: Content-transfer-encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-reply-to:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=HBJRdNP/5DuOUPLh2b4UCAYS5hGsaYkEEIhzC/d16sY=; b=p9WYVA57jiCr86Qcq8Azoedy/JWsC8HzbA21Oz1C/OaIv5aIZ5x3FzlXZDg+72Cc Kee5N7ZU2kkgZS07G6r57UTR28AzIXwJuX6Zf4soIf0pUPQJHH3uzJ8RVQ1b7tRF 9c+7RGIe4si7ehQ/S3VdsIG3/379CBoSdhuVAfczihsTWHAxCPe0kw1XSJOlNS/r 2Nf0fHHsCIfa2Phs5V6mZOyEvYClH0fhIJIKc21g/EsozG2v+wuzqfnWTUmV6VDW YLfFDS954mHIM+8+5yVus+PQeA1VF2ZJpDYLUUI7C251xcbycvSwFnaOxIjuQ9Ij FV1ARa452qRGbymW1SIuLg==; Received: from relay22.apple.com (relay22.apple.com [17.171.128.103]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail-in21.apple.com (Apple Secure Mail Relay) with SMTP id 4E.7A.03314.1D58A495; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:42:26 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11ab0215-aa5ff70000000cf2-e1-594a85d1a006 Received: from ma1-mmpp-sz10.apple.com (ma1-mmpp-sz10.apple.com [17.171.128.150]) by relay22.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id BD.D6.11057.1D58A495; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:42:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Received: from [17.234.160.126] by ma1-mmpp-sz10.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170210 64bit (built Feb 10 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0ORW00GLBJIOSS60@ma1-mmpp-sz10.apple.com>; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Sender: singer@apple.com From: David Singer In-reply-to: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:42:24 -0400 Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, avt@ietf.org, The IESG Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Warren Kumari X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiuLohXfdSq1ekwd1fRhYve1ayW+zbvJLV YsfrVywWM/5MZLa4tP4ek8WyKXuYLQ4fu8zkwO7x6+tVNo+ds+6yeyxZ8pPJ4/aNP+wBLFFc NimpOZllqUX6dglcGZf7HjAVdEpXdPX3MjYwfhPtYuTkkBAwkfh6YjVTFyMXh5DAeiaJ1zNX sMIk+pa8ZQSxhQQOM0oc+hUIYvMKCEr8mHyPpYuRg4NZQF1iypRciN5vjBKnD04B6xUWkJD4 +HEyC4QdIbF25Xkwm01AVeLBnGNgMzkFgiXmr9zHBGKzAMWvv+tkARnELHCXUWLBqXdsIAlm AW2JJ+8usEIstpG4/+gGC8S2fiaJkzvmgE0SAepuXLCfHeJqWYlbsy8xgxRJCOxgk2iduIx1 AqPwLCSXz0K4fBaSHQsYmVcxCucmZuboZuYZGeolFhTkpOol5+duYgRHCZPoDsb5rwwPMQpw MCrx8FrUeUUKsSaWFVfmHmKU5mBREuf12ewZKSSQnliSmp2aWpBaFF9UmpNafIiRiYNTqoFR cHZj36ntqz/8eRK29ccSb75tEm6C1WpiURI5bEd3yfJmJ+zUe9oofP7c9IUvgs+wKcrt+v2p 52Ltqx3Vjc9nmfbxzpXQr8kR2/P7jU2eQuFqRZ+fHV47L9j+2jm3/l3+zA3Vgrc2eSUs4uq1 5tSoPqdweELM10/N8dZXKz8d/KJ97Za2+6SzSizFGYmGWsxFxYkAYzo69HMCAAA= X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiuLphmu7FVq9Ig62XDSxe9qxkt9i3eSWr xY7Xr1gsZvyZyGxxaf09JotlU/YwWxw+dpnJgd3j19erbB47Z91l91iy5CeTx+0bf9gDWKK4 bFJSczLLUov07RK4Mi73PWAq6JSu6OrvZWxg/CbaxcjJISFgItG35C0jiC0kcJhR4tCvQBCb V0BQ4sfkeyxdjBwczALqElOm5HYxcgGVfGOUOH1wCitIjbCAhMTHj5NZIOwIibUrz4PZbAKq Eg/mHAObySkQLDF/5T4mEJsFKH79XScLyCBmgbuMEgtOvWMDSTALaEs8eXeBFWKxjcT9RzdY ILb1M0mc3DEHbJIIUHfjgv3sEFfLStyafYl5AqPALCTHzkI4dhaSsQsYmVcxChal5iRWGhnp JRYU5KTqJefnbmKEBHX6DsYjN80OMQpwMCrx8E5o8IoUYk0sK67MPcQowcGsJML7pQkoxJuS WFmVWpQfX1Sak1p8iFGag0VJnLd8umekkEB6YklqdmpqQWoRTJaJg1OqgbFMUHHZMo+9d1bF /Nz55OKqC0YbGROnJ1ccUtNL4VzkFrHxeEF6wZ+f3vddFrKYmCxSebaUN+W9r469Dffd6oWp V5r0fuT1Li9NrrD6o/OJ/3AW6/NStrdmIg+XnjCY8XftA+NG2Suaamqcny4qvJv8432mgrLw EpcfTGbHVmrkrKjyalYTFVdiKc5INNRiLipOBADKcyDxZgIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:42:30 -0000 I=E2=80=99m fine with inserting the date, but perhaps more importantly = we should say =E2=80=9Cthe pattern was picked for the trivial reason = that=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D to allay concerns about people not = understanding=E2=80=A6 > On Jun 21, 2017, at 10:20 , Warren Kumari wrote: >=20 > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF > wrote: >> I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jun 21, 2017 08:16, "David Singer" wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Jun 19, 2017, at 16:51 , Spencer Dawkins >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>> Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for >>> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes >>>=20 >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to = all >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> COMMENT: >>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>=20 >>> I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions. >>>=20 >>> I couldn't parse this sentence. >>>=20 >>> "A transmitter may be aware that >>> an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case, the >>> transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form." >>>=20 >>> I think >>>=20 >>> In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit value = required >>> by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled in the RTP >>> specification as "defined by profile", MUST have the fixed bit >>> pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification was written >>> on the feast day of the Venerable Bede). >>>=20 >>> is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't = studied >>> English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more >>> likely, >>> just say "May 25" so it's not a mystery? >>=20 >> Not sure that saying =E2=80=9CIt says BEDE because the first draft = was written on >> May 25th=E2=80=9D would be any clearer. Does it matter? >>=20 >>=20 >> I meant "the first version of this specification was written on May = 25th, >> the feast day of the Venerable Bede". >>=20 >=20 > Well, aren't I a silly bunny? That works, maintains the "joke", and is = clear... >=20 > W >=20 >=20 >> Does it matter? Probably not. >>=20 >> Do I hope we don't signal to readers of IETF specifications that they = can >> skip the parts they don't understand? I do ... >>=20 >> But do the right thing, of course. >>=20 >> Spencer >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> David Singer >> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad > idea in the first place. > This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing > regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair > of pants. > ---maf David Singer Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. From nobody Wed Jun 21 09:43:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78F1C12E03D; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:43:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5XUHfYbW8r6O; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x236.google.com (mail-yw0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B979B128CFF; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x236.google.com with SMTP id e142so66699508ywa.1; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:43:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uRwxgasG1VKsfz+HE59J4031TIGIWYkI4u0p7h4p6PI=; b=LO6Ub7xxSjwDj3xAW/jbr/nxpO1oKNMwFyJ3mBSE2ecOkhVLXI3s+hF+Rgo8tKDVhq 5qGwvcresIYHDYi39keQ1aONGavsFF3GnNpnPCRTz2TRdC0qzQRMgWxj/q/UUKvUZ9nw BVs4dxxRv5j5OUsgOt2JRwgI2i9b9i+DYDu9XQbzNj9ogNjMmXPluPA6m8iLzyS5bBl0 7tzI35dtItr5ucRVCfpcULwal6XWW6okyY9fe+Xi69fkfOihI2B3sxI4VbprudvnVOT2 vKaPgp3uJGBwTuvHJSV/SZ8BRpB9luVNT7xpYEBiIF2ndImzIHUvjlvgaZA0U/HqVA5H O/mA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uRwxgasG1VKsfz+HE59J4031TIGIWYkI4u0p7h4p6PI=; b=cWmXmivTEK4J4+q2nctwNK1yWxC1pas5Vn5kALxncPJqDqgXp7bWxVJtNM1NuTxtR/ YbJpH7o6IFpSy+qET+NiFEZyIyctoG7cw4lOTtcy5yfc7TodtN/7+SMBgOXnHGJGz2B0 3ryfj5L9vTIi9nMNTi7aZfvMe4m0dnXFGuYprpKUsVpDQVJMABYHLaZUXMjnY4Ek4QI/ hApkXgVJoKidAY+5m4boGTDDijRkZ+VObtSYDbgPluZZqDoFwi2opH3Hh94cqKceVS5r TsLvm7IgSNZT8WtLKpMP42Ce1FUjBXxs+HarQLgMePcCKagX4Sn9l7wsU6FRtRtbvZTF fMuA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyd9TU9WcilW0t99kHQZMaA5WOaJohdFFxUo0bRjj5Vox9g+0mn UXwqEtzpk37btQrrzYO0fmckTv7K2A== X-Received: by 10.129.78.80 with SMTP id c77mr4349328ywb.289.1498063391765; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:43:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.104.144 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.104.144 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:43:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:43:11 -0500 Message-ID: To: David Singer Cc: iesg@ietf.org, draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, avt@ietf.org, Warren Kumari , Magnus Westerlund Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114dae1a515daf05527b10c0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:43:15 -0000 --001a114dae1a515daf05527b10c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, David, On Jun 21, 2017 09:42, "David Singer" wrote: I=E2=80=99m fine with inserting the date, but perhaps more importantly we s= hould say =E2=80=9Cthe pattern was picked for the trivial reason that=E2=80=A6=E2= =80=9D to allay concerns about people not understanding=E2=80=A6 That works for me. And I'm enjoying the idea of a guy from the 800s being immortalized in an RFC in 2017, so please remember that I liked you folks saying it in your draft ... Spencer, who should probably be scanning the list of feast days for folks with four-byte names that are valid in hex - there can't be many more, can there? :D > On Jun 21, 2017, at 10:20 , Warren Kumari wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF > wrote: >> I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. >> >> >> On Jun 21, 2017 08:16, "David Singer" wrote: >> >> >>> On Jun 19, 2017, at 16:51 , Spencer Dawkins >>> wrote: >>> >>> Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for >>> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes >>> >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>> >>> >>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria. html >>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>> >>> >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> COMMENT: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions. >>> >>> I couldn't parse this sentence. >>> >>> "A transmitter may be aware that >>> an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case, the >>> transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form." >>> >>> I think >>> >>> In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit value required >>> by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled in the RTP >>> specification as "defined by profile", MUST have the fixed bit >>> pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification was written >>> on the feast day of the Venerable Bede). >>> >>> is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't studied >>> English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more >>> likely, >>> just say "May 25" so it's not a mystery? >> >> Not sure that saying =E2=80=9CIt says BEDE because the first draft was w= ritten on >> May 25th=E2=80=9D would be any clearer. Does it matter? >> >> >> I meant "the first version of this specification was written on May 25th= , >> the feast day of the Venerable Bede". >> > > Well, aren't I a silly bunny? That works, maintains the "joke", and is clear... > > W > > >> Does it matter? Probably not. >> >> Do I hope we don't signal to readers of IETF specifications that they ca= n >> skip the parts they don't understand? I do ... >> >> But do the right thing, of course. >> >> Spencer >> >>> >>> >> >> David Singer >> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. >> >> > > > > -- > I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad > idea in the first place. > This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing > regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair > of pants. > ---maf David Singer Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. --001a114dae1a515daf05527b10c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, David,

On Jun 21, 2017 09:42, "David Singer" <singer@apple.com> wrote:
I=E2=80=99m fine with inserting the = date, but perhaps more importantly we should say =E2=80=9Cthe pattern was p= icked for the trivial reason that=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D to allay concerns about= people not understanding=E2=80=A6

That works for me.=C2=A0

And I'm enjoying the idea of a= guy from the 800s being immortalized in an RFC in 2017, so please remember= that I liked you folks saying it in your draft ...
=
Spencer, who should probably be scanning the li= st of feast days for folks with four-byte names that are valid in hex - the= re can't be many more, can there? :D

<= div dir=3D"auto">

> On Jun 21, 2017, at 10:20 , Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF
> <spencerdawkins.ie= tf@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm sorry, I wasn't clear.
>>
>>
>> On Jun 21, 2017 08:16, "David Singer" <singer@apple.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 19, 2017, at 16:51 , Spencer Dawkins
>>> <spencerda= wkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for<= br> >>> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes
>>>
>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply= to all
>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to= cut this
>>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Please refer to https://www.ie= tf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.=
>>>
>>>
>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found = here:
>>> https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------= -------------
>>> COMMENT:
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------= -------------
>>>
>>> I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions.
>>>
>>> I couldn't parse this sentence.
>>>
>>> "A transmitter may be aware that
>>>=C2=A0 an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this ca= se, the
>>>=C2=A0 transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form."
>>>
>>> I think
>>>
>>>=C2=A0 In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit va= lue required
>>>=C2=A0 by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled= in the RTP
>>>=C2=A0 specification as "defined by profile", MUST ha= ve the fixed bit
>>>=C2=A0 pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification = was written
>>>=C2=A0 on the feast day of the Venerable Bede).
>>>
>>> is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who hav= en't studied
>>> English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or,= more
>>> likely,
>>> just say "May 25" so it's not a mystery?
>>
>> Not sure that saying =E2=80=9CIt says BEDE because the first draft= was written on
>> May 25th=E2=80=9D would be any clearer.=C2=A0 Does it matter?
>>
>>
>> I meant "the first version of this specification was written = on May 25th,
>> the feast day of the Venerable Bede".
>>
>
> Well, aren't I a silly bunny? That works, maintains the "joke= ", and is clear...
>
> W
>
>
>> Does it matter? Probably not.
>>
>> Do I hope we don't signal to readers of IETF specifications th= at they can
>> skip the parts they don't understand? I do ...
>>
>> But do the right thing, of course.
>>
>> Spencer
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> David Singer
>> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a ba= d
> idea in the first place.
> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing=
> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair > of pants.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf

David Singer
Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.


--001a114dae1a515daf05527b10c0-- From nobody Wed Jun 21 10:52:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E405127863 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:52:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tyQcRGUNwBT3 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-in22.apple.com (mail-out22.apple.com [17.171.2.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C705A128D44 for ; 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Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:59 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11ab0216-c25ff70000000ab4-31-594ab23f04d1 Received: from ma1-mmpp-sz08.apple.com (ma1-mmpp-sz08.apple.com [17.171.128.176]) by relay25.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id 00.35.27995.E32BA495; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Received: from [17.234.160.126] by ma1-mmpp-sz08.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170210 64bit (built Feb 10 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0ORW00EQGSAMSTB0@ma1-mmpp-sz08.apple.com>; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Sender: singer@apple.com From: David Singer In-reply-to: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB4AA@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:51:57 -0400 Cc: Adam Roach , The IESG , "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "avt@ietf.org" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: References: <149800057969.15702.3522798954779108317.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB4AA@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> To: Roni Even X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiuLohS9d+k1ekwYR92hZ7/i5it3jZs5Ld Yt/mlawWO16/YrGY8Wcis8Wl9feYLD4dO8/iwO7x6+tVNo+WI29ZPZYs+cnkMWvnE5YAligu m5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujDdPTzAWvJeq2PC0j6WB8YdoFyMnh4SAiUTbm/0sXYxcHEIC65kk9t2c wQKTmH1pJhNE4jCjxNNji5hBErwCghI/Jt8DKuLgYBZQl5gyJRei5hujxM1Z18GahQUkJD5+ nAxlh0j0Xb3BBGKzCahKPJhzjBHE5hQIk3h6YQMriM0CFJ984jI7yCBmgUVMEufO3gMrYhbQ lnjy7gIrxGIbicOXvoMNFRKYzijx5GgxiC0ioCJx6PwaZoirZSVuzb7EDDJIQmAPm8Szd3cY JzAKz0Jy+CyEw2chWbGAkXkVo3BuYmaObmaekZFeYkFBTqpecn7uJkZwlDCJ7WC899rwEKMA B6MSD69FnVekEGtiWXFl7iFGaQ4WJXFen82ekUIC6YklqdmpqQWpRfFFpTmpxYcYmTg4pRoY zaykVZZ2+9x7ufFn0Dw2JqYHy04o7qhwa3F6/O3Si/NuX5MFTHdN5vlg5PlXI/bXE4ulWpkn bN9PXZTzMErF78mDoCqza6tO/dGqmRHIZW3Dtu3/lAM2M57eXPz2RdqGpIcH731gYCk9sNHo y++D2ie6QgI+xaVmCTz//3ZS75GI3/5PGQ0nWCixFGckGmoxFxUnAgD9Vst7cwIAAA== X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiuLphg679Jq9Ig47pchZ7/i5it3jZs5Ld Yt/mlawWO16/YrGY8Wcis8Wl9feYLD4dO8/iwO7x6+tVNo+WI29ZPZYs+cnkMWvnE5YAligu m5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujDdPTzAWvJeq2PC0j6WB8YdoFyMnh4SAicTsSzOZuhi5OIQEDjNKPD22 iBkkwSsgKPFj8j2WLkYODmYBdYkpU3Ihar4xStycdZ0FpEZYQELi48fJUHaIRN/VG0wgNpuA qsSDOccYQWxOgTCJpxc2sILYLEDxyScus4MMYhZYxCRx7uw9sCJmAW2JJ+8usEIstpE4fOk7 2FAhgemMEk+OFoPYIgIqEofOr2GGuFpW4tbsS8wTGAVmIbl1FsKts5BMXcDIvIpRsCg1J7HS yFQvsaAgJ1UvOT93EyMkqLN2MN6+aXaIUYCDUYmHd0KDV6QQa2JZcWXuIUYJDmYlEd4764BC vCmJlVWpRfnxRaU5qcWHGKU5WJTEecune0YKCaQnlqRmp6YWpBbBZJk4OKUaGKev+/5u2s53 vu+4Zv4XeOxS1ZteGHbw1J/f6/q3TT1qfcn6affk2VaVB1/6NDXV77X9dcp3r///qw4sxyf7 87ote3Si/7ts+jXxxwd1BHSYl19p6Yo6PTk6u04kk7lGXS1ZWWvCTOUjmXkKW8oMxLXP/rM+ 5PApZV2Wed1X86/1b522ar7jMlNiKc5INNRiLipOBACYRQouZgIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Adam Roach's Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 17:52:05 -0000 Yes, =E2=80=9Clocal=E2=80=9D means =E2=80=9Clocally to this session=E2=80=9D= > On Jun 21, 2017, at 2:04 , Roni Even wrote: >=20 > Hi Adam, > Inline > Roni >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Adam Roach [mailto:adam@nostrum.com] >> Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=93 21 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 = 02:16 >> To: The IESG >> Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; = avtcore- >> chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; avt@ietf.org >> Subject: Adam Roach's Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with >> COMMENT) >>=20 >> Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email >> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory >> paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> The use of the term "local" in this document is implicit and = therefore >> confusing. Section 5 refers to "local identifier (ID)", while section = 7 refers to >> "Local identifiers". Neither indicates what the identifiers are local = to, and >> some implementors have chosen to interpret this as meaning "local to = the >> sender machine." See, for example, >> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D1361206 >>=20 >> I believe the intention here is for "local" to mean "local to this = session." >> This meaning should be made explicit. And, for avoidance of doubt, = the >> document should clarify that the negotiated identifiers use the same >> numeric value in both directions. This is implied by much of the = text, but it >> never stated outright. Because so many other session attributes = (e.g., >> payload types) can be negotiated to be different in each direction, = many >> implementors are likely to assume the same applies here. As the above = bug >> demonstrates, this leads to real interop issues in the field. >=20 > [Roni Even] I also think you are right and should be clarified as = "local to RTP session"=20 > I will also verify this on the AVT list and with my co-authors >=20 >>=20 >> Nits: >>=20 >> element (no alignment is needed), and parsing stops at the earlier = of >> the end of the entire header extension, or in one-byte headers only >> case, on encountering an identifier with the reserved value of 15. >>=20 >> Put quotation marks around "one byte headers only". > [Roni Even] OK >> ____ >>=20 >> Each extension element MUST starts with a byte containing an ID and = a >> length: >>=20 >> s/starts/start/ > [Roni Even] OK >> ____ >>=20 >> The attribute definition in section 6 says "Value:" instead of = "Value: none." >> -- Fix or refer to the IANA section instead. > [Roni Even] OK, will change n section 6 to "Value:none" >=20 >>=20 >=20 David Singer Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. From nobody Wed Jun 21 14:47:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8D70128954 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:47:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wu3-mcz9wbeu for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x22d.google.com (mail-ua0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFFD6127873 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id z22so32248903uah.1 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:47:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=o7/R3bBgtjpkHxbQBBVlEl3iO6Pi4MtEdRYoNRj7OS8=; b=Rf+GUB6unStOH2fUvK5SQTEGNVd5dt0++uWHYbjYSY2w0uSPEOU2p9xjpqFi+co71H BmIKYaOTSF7PWm1bQEexJ/76PXhDF3oMUnbJ876UsxXbRgqkBLdExHKWGUYYWF1wsbz9 KHz/WFud3Isg2xGZ5iZcCtomdS5f5MX6LXb9Mt6WLt3qa4bP7NwCwWosVKnzf8V+H1AJ SpMR68KIDLIpAgQCyDbou0ovabnYfZKffQ9xhZkDTIMK7bz3xDH0XymjHn0+KQnCz9Sg qJ7ohCsn4aPaVq0PjeU3K/5qCSjoRMYOzMmNJIt0O0NwVu4FialmcFzs3WONldOEOVtM hDyA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=o7/R3bBgtjpkHxbQBBVlEl3iO6Pi4MtEdRYoNRj7OS8=; b=GJUSnlWmLA/dhg/dY0h6wR/uVLaCxd26ZORLtPxdd5DAmoIOZiNJ60F1temODVOFEy opqs+w4VXOTNTdOKqVOBaTBSXb8tw2lG2/Bfk15C3SXNSjAoPZ4M8iXNTbOR7uwCT/Ou wA1c79ejvw44jRh9a2VjLO+WGhT3aT2pl9+ZNEsirvRvVuek5V6QQmUuqN0S0CKvPahQ sN37cGkGkYGsvKEEGuh55m7dLuyjNrOEDVYkFX13ZhmtlZUCDHw6VeFz8juStJNaMWmg FW3x0nbO5/Jc9wTUvVQVLNkqD6gASXVxmkEBVYSnTNwZlP8XExUpOCQJSrAexk1JR8i5 AvIw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzjKTOdl33+A+uXVkjYF7E624UM2xY/ZV525TnKX0yu0te6wfqc cd7d1MN9adAoE22JTiTFYVmx7TtSDy+q X-Received: by 10.159.60.162 with SMTP id s34mr25617234uai.89.1498081640618; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:47:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.39.165 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:46:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Warren Kumari Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 17:46:40 -0400 Message-ID: To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Cc: David Singer , The IESG , draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, avt@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:47:24 -0000 On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > Hi, David, > > On Jun 21, 2017 09:42, "David Singer" wrote: > > I=E2=80=99m fine with inserting the date, but perhaps more importantly we= should say > =E2=80=9Cthe pattern was picked for the trivial reason that=E2=80=A6=E2= =80=9D to allay concerns > about people not understanding=E2=80=A6 > > > That works for me. > > And I'm enjoying the idea of a guy from the 800s being immortalized in an > RFC in 2017, so please remember that I liked you folks saying it in your > draft ... > > Spencer, who should probably be scanning the list of feast days for folks > with four-byte names that are valid in hex - there can't be many more, ca= n > there? :D > I'm not religious, so I resorted to taking a list of saints from Wikipedia[= 0]. Taking only "real" hex characters, there are 3: Acca of Hexham The Venerable Bede Cedd ($ cat saints | egrep -i -o -w '[abcdef][abcdef][abcdef][abcdef]') Adding in some l33tsp33k (because I desperately want to avoid reading more drafts and so am procrastinating) we get: Abbo of Fleury (Abb0) Saint Abib (Ab1b) Acca of Hexham (Acca) Alda (A1da) Basil the Fool for Christ (F001) Beatrix d'Este (E57e) Bede Cedd Olaf II of Norway (01af) Ouen (Dado) (Dad0) (cat saints | egrep -i -o -w '[abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst]') Some of them are, er, contrived, but I got to read about "Basil the Fool for Christ "(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Fool_for_Christ), who 1: has possibly the most awesome name / title ever[1], and 2: according to Wikipedia (the source of all truth) "adopted an eccentric lifestyle of shoplifting and giving to the poor to shame the miserly..." and "went naked and weighed himself down with chains". I now *so* want to change my name to "Warren the Fool for " (suggestions welcome)... Errr, did I mention I'm procrastinating?! W [0]: Even if I were religious I would resort to Wikipedia. [1]: It even sounds like an imperative. > >> On Jun 21, 2017, at 10:20 , Warren Kumari wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF >> wrote: >>> I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. >>> >>> >>> On Jun 21, 2017 08:16, "David Singer" wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Jun 19, 2017, at 16:51 , Spencer Dawkins >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for >>>> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes >>>> >>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi= s >>>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>> >>>> >>>> Please refer to >>>> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >>>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>>> >>>> >>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> COMMENT: >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions. >>>> >>>> I couldn't parse this sentence. >>>> >>>> "A transmitter may be aware that >>>> an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case, the >>>> transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form." >>>> >>>> I think >>>> >>>> In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit value required >>>> by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled in the RTP >>>> specification as "defined by profile", MUST have the fixed bit >>>> pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification was written >>>> on the feast day of the Venerable Bede). >>>> >>>> is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't >>>> studied >>>> English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more >>>> likely, >>>> just say "May 25" so it's not a mystery? >>> >>> Not sure that saying =E2=80=9CIt says BEDE because the first draft was = written on >>> May 25th=E2=80=9D would be any clearer. Does it matter? >>> >>> >>> I meant "the first version of this specification was written on May 25t= h, >>> the feast day of the Venerable Bede". >>> >> >> Well, aren't I a silly bunny? That works, maintains the "joke", and is >> clear... >> >> W >> >> >>> Does it matter? Probably not. >>> >>> Do I hope we don't signal to readers of IETF specifications that they c= an >>> skip the parts they don't understand? I do ... >>> >>> But do the right thing, of course. >>> >>> Spencer >>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> David Singer >>> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad >> idea in the first place. >> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing >> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair >> of pants. >> ---maf > > David Singer > Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. > > --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Wed Jun 21 19:26:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B825D12942F; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:25:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BBMMoXYdoewd; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x231.google.com (mail-yw0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A28F129481; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x231.google.com with SMTP id e142so1112160ywa.1; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:25:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Dk2KIPL538BuNiTqMwxKFRLnjvSkuN+sHwdFrFiyHtc=; b=r2k3B7dNXCue+/28KEjlXprpUhLw1y7y63PQMVXJgfQec2tt1ibjwyjNDdO10eg5uh ltBbp4bQYjle3tqhVEKvCkt13KdimEGAcIGm5bji1luTIontkD1BVvyhcm+kqZyEccUt evugvX8hD/7/abzBa+Wj/4nohWiTyg6AGbr4NYE6IxrxkXtr2ehaRdoDhAed7ISBecU2 XS+ini82ByozaZk2cHvNhTosXbiCFfsi8gorY9NulHkNmqa+fFa8m2izKr4ZaZU45V2B 0nZ0fpkXVIsgiK3gOFQ0czBAFpEEs9AoOVl0WCIdVxyWpXvo73qLE89dy7iSydMzCmlB rpbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Dk2KIPL538BuNiTqMwxKFRLnjvSkuN+sHwdFrFiyHtc=; b=XQBFphavXFkxByodMqwW+GFmdrOuoZ3VqEXmh4lTjHbSctb/BCuxMXiXTGGC/QhUjs aWEn62nojoEfdDC7TtXAFwJ29HzYLlgWRjzmJ1IQK4fS/dyA929A0WepByQAIGA8P9Dd 8wZPbPhvUH7mH6u9qWoDp51bJJ0ns/7Wbjg1JUfWTIbWXTS2tYi97xPGhPstOQhQw23E IWXevk60IAbSdf2pJQbG0yhIwpXJpmUdq8JkQVmb6GqHZSep2KAIvXjFp+oZ9k2k+c7A WfjrkmrBNplDRmHL0xNqtY17xsjEgZAp9pG5CIoMGeLAGlzemhqJjqJnEZqzjKjGF0Ij fBTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwIoJzOBI/D6x5BU23erFLnC9yz8fus31EmcknrE0udqp8YFho8 25sFWO9Oglyy4QDffdcwoTT8N5J/MA== X-Received: by 10.129.78.80 with SMTP id c77mr156887ywb.289.1498098348410; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:25:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.104.144 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:25:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:25:47 -0500 Message-ID: To: Warren Kumari Cc: David Singer , The IESG , draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, avt@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114dae1ae54d120552833399" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 02:25:54 -0000 --001a114dae1ae54d120552833399 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Warren, On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Warren Kumari wrote: > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF > wrote: > > Hi, David, > > > > On Jun 21, 2017 09:42, "David Singer" wrote: > > > > I=E2=80=99m fine with inserting the date, but perhaps more importantly = we should > say > > =E2=80=9Cthe pattern was picked for the trivial reason that=E2=80=A6=E2= =80=9D to allay concerns > > about people not understanding=E2=80=A6 > > > > > > That works for me. > > > > And I'm enjoying the idea of a guy from the 800s being immortalized in = an > > RFC in 2017, so please remember that I liked you folks saying it in you= r > > draft ... > > > > Spencer, who should probably be scanning the list of feast days for fol= ks > > with four-byte names that are valid in hex - there can't be many more, > can > > there? :D > > > > I'm not religious, so I resorted to taking a list of saints from > Wikipedia[0]. > > Taking only "real" hex characters, there are 3: > Acca of Hexham > The Venerable Bede > Cedd > ($ cat saints | egrep -i -o -w '[abcdef][abcdef][abcdef][abcdef]') > > > Adding in some l33tsp33k (because I desperately want to avoid reading > more drafts and so am procrastinating) we get: > > Abbo of Fleury (Abb0) > Saint Abib (Ab1b) > Acca of Hexham (Acca) > Alda (A1da) > Basil the Fool for Christ (F001) > Beatrix d'Este (E57e) > Bede > Cedd > Olaf II of Norway (01af) > Ouen (Dado) (Dad0) > > (cat saints | egrep -i -o -w > '[abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst]') > > Some of them are, er, contrived, but I got to read about "Basil the > Fool for Christ > "(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Fool_for_Christ), who > 1: has possibly the most awesome name / title ever[1], and > 2: according to Wikipedia (the source of all truth) "adopted an > eccentric lifestyle of shoplifting and giving to the poor to shame the > miserly..." and "went naked and weighed himself down with chains". > > I now *so* want to change my name to "Warren the Fool for " > (suggestions welcome)... Errr, did I mention I'm procrastinating?! > "Warren the Fool for Operations" would even have Nomcom support. This probably needs to come up at the IETF 99 plenary :D Spencer > > W > > [0]: Even if I were religious I would resort to Wikipedia. > [1]: It even sounds like an imperative. > >>> > >>> I meant "the first version of this specification was written on May > 25th, > >>> the feast day of the Venerable Bede". > >>> > >> > >> Well, aren't I a silly bunny? That works, maintains the "joke", and is > >> clear... > >> > >> W > >> > >> > >>> Does it matter? Probably not. > >>> > >>> Do I hope we don't signal to readers of IETF specifications that they > can > >>> skip the parts they don't understand? I do ... > >>> > >>> But do the right thing, of course. > >>> > >>> Spencer > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> David Singer > >>> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad > >> idea in the first place. > >> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing > >> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair > >> of pants. > >> ---maf > > > > David Singer > > Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. > > > > > > > > -- > I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad > idea in the first place. > This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing > regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair > of pants. > ---maf > --001a114dae1ae54d120552833399 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Warren,

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.n= et> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF
<spencerdawkins.ietf@gm= ail.com> wrote:
> Hi, David,
>
> On Jun 21, 2017 09:42, "David Singer" <singer@apple.com> wrote:
>
> I=E2=80=99m fine with inserting the date, but perhaps more importantly= we should say
> =E2=80=9Cthe pattern was picked for the trivial reason that=E2=80=A6= =E2=80=9D to allay concerns
> about people not understanding=E2=80=A6
>
>
> That works for me.
>
> And I'm enjoying the idea of a guy from the 800s being immortalize= d in an
> RFC in 2017, so please remember that I liked you folks saying it in yo= ur
> draft ...
>
> Spencer, who should probably be scanning the list of feast days for fo= lks
> with four-byte names that are valid in hex - there can't be many m= ore, can
> there? :D
>

I'm not religious, so I resorted to taking a list of saints from= Wikipedia[0].

Taking only "real" hex characters, there are 3:
Acca of Hexham
The Venerable Bede
Cedd
($ cat saints | egrep -i -o -w '[abcdef][abcdef][abcdef][abcdef]&#= 39;)


Adding in some l33tsp33k (because I desperately want to avoid reading
more drafts and so am procrastinating) we get:

Abbo of Fleury (Abb0)
Saint Abib=C2=A0 (Ab1b)
Acca of Hexham (Acca)
Alda (A1da)
Basil the Fool for Christ (F001)
Beatrix d'Este (E57e)
Bede
Cedd
Olaf II of Norway (01af)
Ouen (Dado) (Dad0)

(cat saints | egrep -i -o -w
'[abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst]')

Some of them are, er, contrived, but I got to read about "Basil the Fool for Christ
"(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_= Fool_for_Christ), who
1: has possibly the most awesome name / title ever[1], and
2: according to Wikipedia (the source of all truth) "adopted an
eccentric lifestyle of shoplifting and giving to the poor to shame the
miserly..." and "went naked and weighed himself down with chains&= quot;.

I now *so* want to change my name to "Warren the Fool for <somethin= g>"
(suggestions welcome)... Errr, did I mention I'm procrastinating?!
<= /blockquote>

"Warren the Fool for Operations" = would even have Nomcom support.=C2=A0

This probabl= y needs to come up at the IETF 99 plenary :D

Spenc= er
=C2=A0

W

[0]: Even if I were religious I would resort to Wikipedia.
[1]: It even sounds like an imperative.
>>>
>>> I meant "the first version of this specification was writ= ten on May 25th,
>>> the feast day of the Venerable Bede".
>>>
>>
>> Well, aren't I a silly bunny? That works, maintains the "= joke", and is
>> clear...
>>
>> W
>>
>>
>>> Does it matter? Probably not.
>>>
>>> Do I hope we don't signal to readers of IETF specification= s that they can
>>> skip the parts they don't understand? I do ...
>>>
>>> But do the right thing, of course.
>>>
>>> Spencer
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> David Singer
>>> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously = a bad
>> idea in the first place.
>> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expres= sing
>> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pa= ir
>> of pants.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf
>
> David Singer
> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>
>



--
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
of pants.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf

--001a114dae1ae54d120552833399-- From nobody Wed Jun 21 19:39:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0AB31294A4 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:39:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PUcsz8qJ6J_Y for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x230.google.com (mail-ua0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61399129422 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x230.google.com with SMTP id j53so3335370uaa.2 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:39:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BUvI1EXXrNuqjDd+qN9qItkRPcXrZcELYkLsiPt+C1o=; b=z8f/3Tqaedddj+xk2+9/iGFE6dRD7UJHrAs1aiETMN+ydW2YZhsvpI/Cfruqq8iDCF cBs76xioGqdmuWNvmD+u6sEzpzngADrf/0+kwvE39Zed+ngJJKtQ8jCGyJO8MtIa4tF1 /CjSChmSEcC2aembdZEm0zr7GG4MS3bIkB5r5DwD23zfxNE25SOcjj8U3MJ9uETVwA45 M8VoQEgBxsclhQM7WWYzFtSwIPYZBwLEfMOcUMLe+0qam6Vl/Cuyq/aIZkneJMCBg9Vt 0LH7ETy3uKl0fYf4pt/p2B3JcuGkfCvSnKYuTdhexS0sEDjP/y7NE6a0zWU953YvHFfg 2Htw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BUvI1EXXrNuqjDd+qN9qItkRPcXrZcELYkLsiPt+C1o=; b=e4VwZEOBHJq8NWof5WtSeAYwkQpr0GNuRhfzsJNiPhtzgV1WuiNxgS8CMD2A9Xd78C gdRlSRf73Iw930LnqV1JRvWaiM767iCDy/3DX+6gHRKEKsOir89TDCHKAgFzbRms8FN2 vh+l9yr5+TwUAMwe16gdJ3bshretGgLi9IWpXsGy9rVKGeQMWPkhb/TcGAuKCWZd1MrO wJANOSdNIrAi4MXTKYEdFcWQnmDQHcbMIm2PUNPzUE3An9ph5i48PRLrmV9U8pHUp+O7 qyOK3yKRYlUPxC6dssTnUeP2MXBIPbsduZGEvEw/qi0I5TTeo0XXrV2P5pufEgCwc6AD /Ogg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwAmcPBf+Fr5UF+odBSyXp26Ji8gdw8arBL6M721UrQ8y9w9W5v 9nAJ4r5fehLxQ/okYj6YiCeOHEyXZyHr X-Received: by 10.159.59.143 with SMTP id r15mr287180uah.110.1498099159466; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:39:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warren Kumari Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 02:39:09 +0000 Message-ID: To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Cc: David Singer , Magnus Westerlund , The IESG , avt@ietf.org, avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043eb59c3d1fe905528364c4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 02:39:24 -0000 --f403043eb59c3d1fe905528364c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:25 PM Spencer Dawkins at IETF < spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, Warren, > > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Warren Kumari wrote: > >> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF >> wrote: >> > Hi, David, >> > >> > On Jun 21, 2017 09:42, "David Singer" wrote: >> > >> > I=E2=80=99m fine with inserting the date, but perhaps more importantly= we >> should say >> > =E2=80=9Cthe pattern was picked for the trivial reason that=E2=80=A6= =E2=80=9D to allay concerns >> > about people not understanding=E2=80=A6 >> > >> > >> > That works for me. >> > >> > And I'm enjoying the idea of a guy from the 800s being immortalized in >> an >> > RFC in 2017, so please remember that I liked you folks saying it in yo= ur >> > draft ... >> > >> > Spencer, who should probably be scanning the list of feast days for >> folks >> > with four-byte names that are valid in hex - there can't be many more, >> can >> > there? :D >> > >> >> I'm not religious, so I resorted to taking a list of saints from >> Wikipedia[0]. >> >> Taking only "real" hex characters, there are 3: >> Acca of Hexham >> The Venerable Bede >> Cedd >> ($ cat saints | egrep -i -o -w '[abcdef][abcdef][abcdef][abcdef]') >> >> >> Adding in some l33tsp33k (because I desperately want to avoid reading >> more drafts and so am procrastinating) we get: >> >> Abbo of Fleury (Abb0) >> Saint Abib (Ab1b) >> Acca of Hexham (Acca) >> Alda (A1da) >> Basil the Fool for Christ (F001) >> Beatrix d'Este (E57e) >> Bede >> Cedd >> Olaf II of Norway (01af) >> Ouen (Dado) (Dad0) >> >> (cat saints | egrep -i -o -w >> '[abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst]') >> >> Some of them are, er, contrived, but I got to read about "Basil the >> Fool for Christ >> "(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Fool_for_Christ), who >> 1: has possibly the most awesome name / title ever[1], and >> 2: according to Wikipedia (the source of all truth) "adopted an >> eccentric lifestyle of shoplifting and giving to the poor to shame the >> miserly..." and "went naked and weighed himself down with chains". >> >> I now *so* want to change my name to "Warren the Fool for " >> (suggestions welcome)... Errr, did I mention I'm procrastinating?! >> > > "Warren the Fool for Operations" would even have Nomcom support. > WFM. W > This probably needs to come up at the IETF 99 plenary :D > > Spencer > > >> >> W >> >> [0]: Even if I were religious I would resort to Wikipedia. >> [1]: It even sounds like an imperative. > > >>> >> > >> >>> I meant "the first version of this specification was written on May >> 25th, >> >>> the feast day of the Venerable Bede". >> >>> >> >> >> >> Well, aren't I a silly bunny? That works, maintains the "joke", and i= s >> >> clear... >> >> >> >> W >> >> >> >> >> >>> Does it matter? Probably not. >> >>> >> >>> Do I hope we don't signal to readers of IETF specifications that the= y >> can >> >>> skip the parts they don't understand? I do ... >> >>> >> >>> But do the right thing, of course. >> >>> >> >>> Spencer >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> David Singer >> >>> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad >> >> idea in the first place. >> >> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressin= g >> >> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair >> >> of pants. >> >> ---maf >> > >> > David Singer >> > Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad >> idea in the first place. >> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing >> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair >> of pants. >> ---maf >> > -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf --f403043eb59c3d1fe905528364c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 = at 10:25 PM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Warren,

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari= .net> wrote:
On Wed, = Jun 21, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF
<spen= cerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, David,
>
> On Jun 21, 2017 09:42, "David Singer" <singer@apple.com> wrote:
>
> I=E2=80=99m fine with inserting the date, but perhaps more importantly= we should say
> =E2=80=9Cthe pattern was picked for the trivial reason that=E2=80=A6= =E2=80=9D to allay concerns
> about people not understanding=E2=80=A6
>
>
> That works for me.
>
> And I'm enjoying the idea of a guy from the 800s being immortalize= d in an
> RFC in 2017, so please remember that I liked you folks saying it in yo= ur
> draft ...
>
> Spencer, who should probably be scanning the list of feast days for fo= lks
> with four-byte names that are valid in hex - there can't be many m= ore, can
> there? :D
>

I'm not religious, so I resorted to taking a list of saints from= Wikipedia[0].

Taking only "real" hex characters, there are 3:
Acca of Hexham
The Venerable Bede
Cedd
($ cat saints | egrep -i -o -w '[abcdef][abcdef][abcdef][abcdef]')<= br>

Adding in some l33tsp33k (because I desperately want to avoid reading
more drafts and so am procrastinating) we get:

Abbo of Fleury (Abb0)
Saint Abib=C2=A0 (Ab1b)
Acca of Hexham (Acca)
Alda (A1da)
Basil the Fool for Christ (F001)
Beatrix d'Este (E57e)
Bede
Cedd
Olaf II of Norway (01af)
Ouen (Dado) (Dad0)

(cat saints | egrep -i -o -w
'[abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst][abcdefiolst]')

Some of them are, er, contrived, but I got to read about "Basil the Fool for Christ
"(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Fool_= for_Christ), who
1: has possibly the most awesome name / title ever[1], and
2: according to Wikipedia (the source of all truth) "adopted an
eccentric lifestyle of shoplifting and giving to the poor to shame the
miserly..." and "went naked and weighed himself down with chains&= quot;.

I now *so* want to change my name to "Warren the Fool for <somethin= g>"
(suggestions welcome)... Errr, did I mention I'm procrastinating?!
<= /blockquote>

"Warren the Fool for Operations"= ; would even have Nomcom support.=C2=A0
<= /blockquote>

WFM.

W

<= div dir=3D"auto">

This probab= ly needs to come up at the IETF 99 plenary :D
<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">

Sp= encer
=C2=A0

W

[0]: Even if I were religious I would resort to Wikipedia.
[1]: It even sounds like an imperative.
=
>>>

>>> I meant "the first version of this specification was writ= ten on May 25th,
>>> the feast day of the Venerable Bede".
>>>
>>
>> Well, aren't I a silly bunny? That works, maintains the "= joke", and is
>> clear...
>>
>> W
>>
>>
>>> Does it matter? Probably not.
>>>
>>> Do I hope we don't signal to readers of IETF specification= s that they can
>>> skip the parts they don't understand? I do ...
>>>
>>> But do the right thing, of course.
>>>
>>> Spencer
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> David Singer
>>> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously = a bad
>> idea in the first place.
>> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expres= sing
>> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pa= ir
>> of pants.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf
>
> David Singer
> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>
>



--
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
of pants.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf
--
I don't = think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the fir= st place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later ex= pressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pa= ir of pants.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf
--f403043eb59c3d1fe905528364c4-- From nobody Thu Jun 22 01:32:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F6AD128AB0; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 01:32:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.212 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.212 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Srh8sPn3WqCO; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 01:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 579F11242F7; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 01:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DIZ39066; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 08:32:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.214) by LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:30:17 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.214]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 16:30:03 +0800 From: Roni Even To: Alexey Melnikov , "singer@apple.com" CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS6m6omU7jd1k9E0Ce9+tqopQFt6IwiNLA Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 08:30:01 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBA42@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149797808384.24922.16736269841062630572.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB466@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> <246EEFE0-D1E4-45A2-A455-58599FDA68DA@fastmail.fm> In-Reply-To: <246EEFE0-D1E4-45A2-A455-58599FDA68DA@fastmail.fm> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.55] Content-Type: text/plain; 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bh=u7LfhY HYw2F7t/MFv6Ku2U/1rPWJg2g4m5Fn2EYtZzw=; b=nvzrrJkjKD2cz/3mXUh3Ws aswqBO8Dh5YClwJjBYZ/hvwkDOeflsvAFgzh1Fxp3hboQWAof2JuMBKH8jhNcI5B 64JTt7dXEJdOGh8KmWVQAOJxAi3ImRbe6TyI2xkm9MEeZBg6FdLjQ9qJwCjawums V1gl0jkDXPCHy9KnC+V1ySXztc53049WfTtdfGl8UHWcWF1BYe/0/1KukT9f809K XEJL5cSauQVYAwvHsqFfEPcqPdlEVvtU+CMTlw661Oj4yWn+Ku8jTqYYJX2BQLWJ a4qGjkknDqZoTJKBTwCf9qF3txZAtnFpONdhwb3Y2+gPjd1Bm2C0q+1kOkghAqEw == X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 912B39E23D; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1498122335.900051.1017634000.23E6A729@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: Roni Even , singer@apple.com Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, avt@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-72841c42 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 10:05:35 +0100 References: <149797808384.24922.16736269841062630572.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DB466@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> <246EEFE0-D1E4-45A2-A455-58599FDA68DA@fastmail.fm> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBA42@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBA42@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:05:40 -0000 Hi Roni, This is much better, thank you! On Thu, Jun 22, 2017, at 09:30 AM, Roni Even wrote: > Hi Alexey , > Just answering with the open issue from section 7 > > > Reading these two paragraphs I can see the cases for not removing, I > think that the logic is not complete and suggest the following > > If an extension is marked as "sendonly" and the answerer desires to > receive it, the extension MUST be marked as "recvonly" in the SDP > answer. An answerer that has no desire to receive the extension or > does not understand the extension SHOULD remove it from the SDP > answer. An answerer MAY want to respond that he supports the > extension and may use it in the future will mark the extension as > "inactive" > > To clarify: If the answerer is able to send this extension if and when > the current offerer change his directionality > > > If an extension is marked as "recvonly" and the answerer desires to > send it, the extension MUST be marked as "sendonly" in the SDP > answer. An answerer that has no desire to, or is unable to, send the > extension SHOULD remove it from the SDP answer. An answerer may want > to respond that he support this extension and may send in the future > or will be able to receive by marking the extension as "inactive" > > Roni From nobody Thu Jun 22 02:07:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietf.org Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E8F1274D0; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 02:07:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benoit Claise To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund , avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, avt@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149812242175.30678.6395979573678627076.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 02:07:01 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:07:02 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- OLD: The other major change is to update the requirement from the RTP specification and[RFC5285] NEW: The other major change is to update the requirement from the RTP specification [RFC5285] From nobody Thu Jun 22 04:32:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E946127735; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:32:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ri9Ub8WkdFwp; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:32:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8424128DF3; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:32:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DIZ71888; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:32:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 12:32:33 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.211) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 19:32:31 +0800 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.211]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 19:32:29 +0800 From: Roni Even To: Spencer Dawkins , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS6T3ISBfW7FDCHkCgX6yGIybf4qIwlyvw Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:32:28 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBAE0@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.55] 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7B421296B3; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:33:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SEMx8GffNa50; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97439127735; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:32:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DPQ06072; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:32:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.214) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 12:32:54 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.214]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 19:32:32 +0800 From: Roni Even To: Adam Roach , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adam Roach's Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) - the use of "local" Thread-Index: AdLrRkBZNpMiyrc3R9m+xLlDIkHl+A== Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:32:31 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBAEC@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090206.594BAAE8.000E, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.18, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 2d4449d5b94ba4423104eba8272e4ba3 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Adam Roach's Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) - the use of "local" X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:33:01 -0000 DQpIaSBBZGFtLA0KWW91IGFyZSByaWdodCwgdGhlIHRleHQgaW4gc2VjdGlvbiA3DQoNCiJMb2Nh bCBpZGVudGlmaWVycyBpbiB0aGUgdmFsaWQgcmFuZ2UgaW5jbHVzaXZlIGluIGFuIG9mZmVyIG9y IGFuc3dlciAgbXVzdCBub3QgYmUgdXNlZCBtb3JlIHRoYW4gb25jZSBwZXIgbWVkaWEgc2VjdGlv 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ESMTP id jk8rkejb6SlX; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A7901293F3; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DPQ06079; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:32:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.210) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 12:32:56 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.210]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 19:32:30 +0800 From: Roni Even To: Eric Rescorla , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS6Vzw19JVEdqGt06rTGq4ijzxeaIws2Og Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:32:30 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBAE6@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149791884335.23828.13769788810069405479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149791884335.23828.13769788810069405479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090204.594BAAE9.0069, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.18, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 392cbbd258107f27822a9d637d9f4ffb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:34:02 -0000 aW5saW5lDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogRXJpYyBSZXNj b3JsYSBbbWFpbHRvOmVrckBydGZtLmNvbV0NCj4gU2VudDog15nXldedwqDXkiAyMCDXmdeV16DX mSAyMDE3IDAzOjM0DQo+IFRvOiBUaGUgSUVTRw0KPiBDYzogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1hdnRjb3JlLXJm YzUyODUtYmlzQGlldGYub3JnOyBNYWdudXMgV2VzdGVybHVuZDsgYXZ0Y29yZS0NCj4gY2hhaXJz QGlldGYub3JnOyBtYWdudXMud2VzdGVybHVuZEBlcmljc3Nvbi5jb207IGF2dEBpZXRmLm9yZw0K PiBTdWJqZWN0OiBFcmljIFJlc2NvcmxhJ3MgRGlzY3VzcyBvbiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWF2dGNvcmUt cmZjNTI4NS1iaXMtMTI6ICh3aXRoDQo+IERJU0NVU1MgYW5kIENPTU1FTlQpDQo+IA0KPiBFcmlj 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lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 12:50:06 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.213]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 19:49:58 +0800 From: Roni Even To: Benoit Claise , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS6zbu7eF5F63tzE21J8sTkH0ySqIwxH4A Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:49:58 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBB49@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149812242175.30678.6395979573678627076.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149812242175.30678.6395979573678627076.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: 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<149791884335.23828.13769788810069405479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBAE6@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:53:54 -0700 Message-ID: To: Roni Even Cc: The IESG , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" , "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , "avt@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114bd4c88de03605528bfc71" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 12:54:40 -0000 --001a114bd4c88de03605528bfc71 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, I understand that, but why would you not want to mix? I assume merely because your implementation can't handle it, right? Is there some other reason? -Ekr On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 4:32 AM, Roni Even wrote: > inline > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.com] > > Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=92 20 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 03:34 > > To: The IESG > > Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; avtcore= - > > chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; avt@ietf.org > > Subject: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: > (with > > DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email > > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory > > paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria. > html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Why are you allowing this extension to be "normal" in BUNDLE? > > If you're bundling, you should be modern enough to handle mixed, no? Wh= y > > not make life simple? > > > > > [Roni Even] It is not a question about handing mixing if you bundle but i= f > there is a use case where you do not want to mix for one of the m-lines. > This is the discussion since even if you use normal you can still do > identical (for example by having the allow mixing at the session level) b= ut > not the opposite. > > > --001a114bd4c88de03605528bfc71 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, I understand that, but why would you not want to mix?= I assume merely because your implementation can't handle it, right? Is= there some other reason?

-Ekr


On Thu, Jun 22, = 2017 at 4:32 AM, Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com> wrote:<= br>
inline

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.c= om]
> Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D=C2=A0=D7=92 20 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 = 03:34
> To: The IESG
> Cc: draft-i= etf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; avtcore-
> chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com= ; avt@ietf.org
> Subject: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with
> DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
> Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot= position for
> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email
> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this intr= oductory
> paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/i= esg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
> DISCUSS:
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>
> Why are you allowing this extension to be "normal" in BUNDLE= ?
> If you're bundling, you should be modern enough to handle mixed, n= o? Why
> not make life simple?
>
>
[Roni Even] It is not a question about handing mixing if you bundle = but if there is a use case where you do not want to mix for one of the m-li= nes. This is the discussion since even if you use normal you can still do i= dentical (for example by having the allow mixing at the session level) but = not the opposite.



--001a114bd4c88de03605528bfc71-- From nobody Thu Jun 22 05:56:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5D071243F3; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:56:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yXFnwP42kvMT; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb0-x22e.google.com (mail-yb0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 431E1127078; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id 84so4336109ybe.0; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:56:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LFHU4SXZkCNDEPqmvrigPiwJumsafIocoWtN25dgUOQ=; b=GntLHxo+ks0ekM7Kdmk3vElt25EOe1vA/O44azMB5e8mZYUYD48WlkRabykdbg6odv 7S9EUxsqs6S8av9Zh69m8J9rUUm5xK+S4vZrQOKBTTUWXwg/cJkzUfjm0mO9IqBsEpUr C4ZLD5RRzUiDYjrPS4k52gHI4bVt/0Ihmnm4eAOoOlV/NCuz5dPP3kQh5VVihhDxp0pW TL0Os+NO7KJqO1F52QG2XZSloLcwMTe58GWKkpQZSOC2R9AcLkJz2K/F9Pd4GfPaTvrv SMZeh9YTQ+U3Ob7riWFtS5+eeao6toDuDgFBeKPVsH+Nwd6YNra+iFx1DpocvYjptL2v r9Kg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LFHU4SXZkCNDEPqmvrigPiwJumsafIocoWtN25dgUOQ=; b=LHPLVfSbAj9EI0md341HBKFZGDVP3sDQ9L3DfJMyxjJkaUZ4si346CHzCZwJW11fas 9tnCqxXBgAfC4+dInlOAhkz55pFynuVO2GyttbUMqMqd3fQFYhy/pyiczpfWfHMpceil w5TMH3lbQqQS7sv4tz9dbGgA5N1opj/iIDG1kw7OqxUf59YQImosDLScKdlBX1cLW8V1 OlMSjWPdK6EkYSv6CO4lAlOmXaEFKTahl/Mv+yljmMNc4vBtXE5dmNh9PdvYAAjMcVVl 13N7Wt0tcKsnclLwO8ak6hLpZNAg0VAm+aHX8saBQhc5VOmZy5pgpOOxZlnZfhILyN1a Tcmg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwaJ5j8jkmvOzorQY5oNnHR/EMMXnPaCuJCxAOfE8iq/Lal8zkC 2GgIL8qD9yJWhmPrhHFPyHPp1YUggKGX X-Received: by 10.37.246.18 with SMTP id t18mr1587625ybd.211.1498136193459; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:56:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.104.144 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:56:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBAE0@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBAE0@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 07:56:32 -0500 Message-ID: To: Roni Even Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" , "avt@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045da836a2ff0005528c03c1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 12:56:45 -0000 --f403045da836a2ff0005528c03c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Roni, On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:32 AM, Roni Even wrote: > Spencer, > According to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede the date is May > 26th according to http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=3D574 > May 25th and in http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02384a.htm it is May 27th > So is it good to write a date in the RFC? > I'm impressed. I was expecting problems with Julian/Gregorian calendar differences, but not what you found ... If David's OK with putting the date he observes in the RFC (as "the first version of this specification was written on May 25th, when the author was observing the feast day of the Venerable Bede", or whatever the actual date was), I'd be OK with that. Given that we're even discussing this awesome side reference on Facebook now, you folks could drop the whole point, but that would be sad :D ... Spencer > Roni > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Spencer Dawkins [mailto:spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com] > > Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=91 19 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 23:51 > > To: The IESG > > Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; avtcore= - > > chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; avt@ietf.org > > Subject: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: > (with > > COMMENT) > > > > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email > > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory > > paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria. > html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions. > > > > I couldn't parse this sentence. > > > > "A transmitter may be aware that > > an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case, the > > transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form." > > > > I think > > > > In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit value required > > by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled in the RTP > > specification as "defined by profile", MUST have the fixed bit > > pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification was written > > on the feast day of the Venerable Bede). > > > > is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't > studied > > English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more > likely, just > > say "May 25" so it's not a mystery? > > > > --f403045da836a2ff0005528c03c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Roni,

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:32 AM, Roni Even <<= a href=3D"mailto:roni.even@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">roni.even@huawei.c= om> wrote:
Spencer,
According to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede the date is May 26th according to http://w= ww.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=3D574 May 25th and in http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02384a.htm it is Ma= y 27th
So is it good to write a date in the RFC?

I'm impressed. I was expecting problems with Julian/Gregorian calend= ar differences, but not what you found ...

If David'= ;s OK with putting the date he observes in the RFC (as "the first vers= ion of this specification was written on May 25th, when the author was obse= rving the=C2=A0feast day of the Venerable Bede", or whatever the actua= l date was), I'd be OK with that.

<= /div>
Given that we're even discussing this a= wesome side reference on Facebook now, you folks could drop the whole point= , but that would be sad :D ...

Spencer
=C2=A0
Roni

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Spencer Dawkins [mailto:spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com]
> Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D=C2=A0=D7=91 19 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 = 23:51
> To: The IESG
> Cc: draft-i= etf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; avtcore-
> chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com= ; avt@ietf.org
> Subject: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-b= is-12: (with
> COMMENT)
>
> Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email
> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this intr= oductory
> paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/i= esg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
> COMMENT:
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>
> I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions.
>
> I couldn't parse this sentence.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0"A transmitter may be aware that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this cas= e, the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form."
>
> I think
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit val= ue required
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled = in the RTP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 specification as "defined by profile", MUST hav= e the fixed bit
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification w= as written
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 on the feast day of the Venerable Bede).
>
> is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't= studied
> English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more li= kely, just
> say "May 25" so it's not a mystery?
>


--f403045da836a2ff0005528c03c1-- From nobody Thu Jun 22 06:08:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D73E3124D68 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.303 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.303 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8KLE2rDCJqJ3 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-in23.apple.com (mail-out23.apple.com [17.171.2.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85B761287A0 for ; 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Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:07:53 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11ab0217-0a3fb700000022dc-22-594bc12893c6 Received: from ma1-mmpp-sz10.apple.com (ma1-mmpp-sz10.apple.com [17.171.128.150]) by relay22.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id 48.11.11057.821CB495; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:07:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Received: from [17.234.128.64] by ma1-mmpp-sz10.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170210 64bit (built Feb 10 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0ORY00LXK9T30E40@ma1-mmpp-sz10.apple.com>; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Sender: singer@apple.com From: David Singer In-reply-to: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:07:51 -0400 Cc: Roni Even , The IESG , "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avt@ietf.org" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: <13341AFE-E840-49A2-AEA7-F583BA0E0B7F@apple.com> References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBAE0@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiuLohXVfzoHekwco3AhYve1ayW+zbvJLV YsfrVywWM/5MZLa4tP4ek8WnY+dZLJZN2cPswO7x6+tVNo+ds+6ye7QcecvqsWTJT6YAligu m5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujAUTUwtOSlXM33qXtYFxjWgXIweHhICJxI2Ndl2MnBxCAuuZJO6edgSx QcLXDvUwdzFyAcUPM0ocmPGYHSTBKyAo8WPyPRaQXmYBdYkpU3Iher8ySjy5nw9iCwtISHz8 OJkFwo6QWLvyPJjNJqAq8WDOMUYQm1MgWGLOrmlMIDYLUPxy/y42kF3MAkuZJI40bAZrYBbQ lnjy7gIrxF4bidONJ9khDrrPKPFo2iuwhIiAtcSWvk42iKtlJW7NvgR2tYTADjaJU903WCcw Cs9CcvgshMNnIdmxgJF5FaNwbmJmjm5mnpGxXmJBQU6qXnJ+7iZGcHwwie9g/Pza8BCjAAej Eg/vhAavSCHWxLLiytxDjNIcLErivKGbPSOFBNITS1KzU1MLUovii0pzUosPMTJxcEo1MIrM kV2XstQ3u82M/WPNnmM+Me/TOj+eZZ5zttt823wrvfS42j4320BdjReHany+8219Ed8/RUJK wex48u1Tfc8kxGYuvX7GND/XcZ7B5Z3JXskrUmJqbDzWe858Oitz0aRUEV6vb00LXYoLfov0 Cqu8F9jMd199U7tf29mkP7ws3g/UhC8bKrEUZyQaajEXFScCAFXYchFwAgAA X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrELMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiuLphmq7GQe9Ig3UrZSxe9qxkt9i3eSWr xY7Xr1gsZvyZyGxxaf09JotPx86zWCybsofZgd3j19erbB47Z91l92g58pbVY8mSn0wBLFFc NimpOZllqUX6dglcGQsmphaclKqYv/UuawPjGtEuRk4OCQETiWuHepi7GLk4hAQOM0ocmPGY HSTBKyAo8WPyPZYuRg4OZgF1iSlTckHCQgJfGSWe3M8HsYUFJCQ+fpzMAmFHSKxdeR7MZhNQ lXgw5xgjiM0pECwxZ9c0JhCbBSh+uX8XG8guZoGlTBJHGjaDNTALaEs8eXeBFWKvjcTpxpPs EAfdZ5R4NO0VWEJEwFpiS18nG8TVshK3Zl9insAoMAvJrbMQbp2FZOwCRuZVjIJFqTmJlUZG eokFBTmpesn5uZsYISGdvoPxyE2zQ4wCHIxKPLwTGrwihVgTy4orcw8xSnAwK4nwftvpHSnE m5JYWZValB9fVJqTWnyIUZqDRUmct3y6Z6SQQHpiSWp2ampBahFMlomDU6qBUY3tx2MLtkmr nqwsmKGUYSzZ4iR+wdg87/PJeBHurReSmBlCHp5O4t1eu8NVzK53ttHMGNVTbq97pddevekj FLxo94WVT1X4DpStT9YIt9M+5hYcstpzs8l6Ib0Kzmvi0arTE9MebEt86z9NgCVS6/W9Oewq wdr/O4/Mzrl3ytx3/kedqg2MSizFGYmGWsxFxYkAN2tQK2UCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 13:07:58 -0000 May 25th is right, if we care. =20 > On Jun 22, 2017, at 8:56 , Spencer Dawkins at IETF = wrote: >=20 > Hi, Roni, >=20 > On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:32 AM, Roni Even = wrote: > Spencer, > According to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede the date is = May 26th according to = http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=3D574 May 25th and in = http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02384a.htm it is May 27th > So is it good to write a date in the RFC? >=20 > I'm impressed. I was expecting problems with Julian/Gregorian calendar = differences, but not what you found ... >=20 > If David's OK with putting the date he observes in the RFC (as "the = first version of this specification was written on May 25th, when the = author was observing the feast day of the Venerable Bede", or whatever = the actual date was), I'd be OK with that. >=20 > Given that we're even discussing this awesome side reference on = Facebook now, you folks could drop the whole point, but that would be = sad :D ... >=20 > Spencer > =20 > Roni >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Spencer Dawkins [mailto:spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com] > > Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=91 19 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 = 23:51 > > To: The IESG > > Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; = avtcore- > > chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; avt@ietf.org > > Subject: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: = (with > > COMMENT) > > > > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to = all email > > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory > > paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ > > > > > > > > = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions. > > > > I couldn't parse this sentence. > > > > "A transmitter may be aware that > > an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case, the > > transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form." > > > > I think > > > > In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit value = required > > by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled in the = RTP > > specification as "defined by profile", MUST have the fixed bit > > pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification was = written > > on the feast day of the Venerable Bede). > > > > is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't = studied > > English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more = likely, just > > say "May 25" so it's not a mystery? > > >=20 >=20 David Singer Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. From nobody Thu Jun 22 06:08:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91D08128B8E; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:08:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LAyITOe0PS3F; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x234.google.com (mail-yw0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A5D01243F3; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x234.google.com with SMTP id 63so5700662ywr.0; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:08:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5gjMlYtlCC2JorbnYeqPTMBi1qjjuSD6XvdXNWv0WYE=; b=RIWvgjIBtR2jI58QFgZR/GO01jdCYEp3Nkn94AbrnSgAhgwokZRhRVBkZeOgYOyHUs QgyjsA+93+MvrCGTKgpzBAFDzTV748eRIDlaE9+QnwgBno8JgloQsGrVveFKGE0THCE8 J+K+hf/T/VFiuBmwoH+WzRit/4btWcs5rBXAV8eBp7sjZIpI2hsoApbU9lTY+Dw2AC58 T2AXGM2yCBlWBIdpUpnFATxO5tMgUwUDNUHqm+F5j8M99qKomEEX7GXBY8LYp5uhb4Ir WslAXXA0QQ//GKIBtk774mX7aZ3aAdoGjtAU/9SpYQ5ZmxK/JRI3TdsSG3sC9ZJm7Wlo 9nNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5gjMlYtlCC2JorbnYeqPTMBi1qjjuSD6XvdXNWv0WYE=; b=IL/jtvbrJnWhcKyjm+1cAZ3jcngrkQVRfLCotKND5S6ikVrdbMjQAOH/7LYuivCmfu l3hMzr1VnjEt7FIk6uGOvZubtr9vBsTmJMVmMK9QSuoeplEz96GDZbg//P8z+UATnBiv uzEwvhhh7SLNyFrPOVqdjStYbQ7BV5zBxRznO2ECHIiPNEONNvjDQmxhNu5Y9ifGN6lI nzTQiLpzv3ocJiUZpEdIKaymz7zuNlTuvk5xIOtX2yoYmlCZN0TSGA9/5xtffccGQmAI 3BiotLQxz+Lh+qJcKQo5mmg86nxv9EDJ9L6WWlQalSIgEtOHbqtEp2UK0XR8RweExaWo PVpg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyjWGDTgislmGH36knInZy4QQhowyXtcJBCxopnJiZjoIt6Y+WQ ESEUKV48BOMAHgA9s9jUc0v9mUmsrA== X-Received: by 10.129.115.70 with SMTP id o67mr1908221ywc.263.1498136925573; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:08:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.104.144 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:08:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <13341AFE-E840-49A2-AEA7-F583BA0E0B7F@apple.com> References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBAE0@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> <13341AFE-E840-49A2-AEA7-F583BA0E0B7F@apple.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 08:08:45 -0500 Message-ID: To: David Singer Cc: Roni Even , The IESG , "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avt@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11493344461dc605528c2fd6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 13:08:50 -0000 --001a11493344461dc605528c2fd6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, David, On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 8:07 AM, David Singer wrote: > May 25th is right, if we care. > > > Do the right thing ;-) Spencer > > > > On Jun 22, 2017, at 8:56 , Spencer Dawkins at IETF < > spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, Roni, > > > > On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:32 AM, Roni Even wrote= : > > Spencer, > > According to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede the date is > May 26th according to http://www.catholic.org/ > saints/saint.php?saint_id=3D574 May 25th and in http://www.newadvent.org/ > cathen/02384a.htm it is May 27th > > So is it good to write a date in the RFC? > > > > I'm impressed. I was expecting problems with Julian/Gregorian calendar > differences, but not what you found ... > > > > If David's OK with putting the date he observes in the RFC (as "the > first version of this specification was written on May 25th, when the > author was observing the feast day of the Venerable Bede", or whatever th= e > actual date was), I'd be OK with that. > > > > Given that we're even discussing this awesome side reference on Faceboo= k > now, you folks could drop the whole point, but that would be sad :D ... > > > > Spencer > > > > Roni > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Spencer Dawkins [mailto:spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com] > > > Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=91 19 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 23:5= 1 > > > To: The IESG > > > Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; > avtcore- > > > chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; avt@ietf.org > > > Subject: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: > (with > > > COMMENT) > > > > > > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for > > > draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes > > > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email > > > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory > > > paragraph, however.) > > > > > > > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria. > html > > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > > COMMENT: > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > > > > > I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions. > > > > > > I couldn't parse this sentence. > > > > > > "A transmitter may be aware that > > > an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in this case, the > > > transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form." > > > > > > I think > > > > > > In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bit value requir= ed > > > by the RTP specification for a header extension, labeled in the RT= P > > > specification as "defined by profile", MUST have the fixed bit > > > pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specification was writte= n > > > on the feast day of the Venerable Bede). > > > > > > is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven't > studied > > > English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, more > likely, just > > > say "May 25" so it's not a mystery? > > > > > > > > > David Singer > Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. > > --001a11493344461dc605528c2fd6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, David,

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 8:07 AM, David Singer &= lt;singer@apple.com> wrote:
May 25th is right, i= f we care.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_of_saints_(Episcopal_Church)>

Do the right thing ;-)

Spencer
=C2=A0


> On Jun 22, 2017, at 8:56 , Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
>
> Hi, Roni,
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:32 AM, Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com> wrote:
> Spencer,
> According to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bed= e the date is May 26th according to http:= //www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=3D574 May 25th and in= http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02384a.htm it is= May 27th
> So is it good to write a date in the RFC?
>
> I'm impressed. I was expecting problems with Julian/Gregorian cale= ndar differences, but not what you found ...
>
> If David's OK with putting the date he observes in the RFC (as &qu= ot;the first version of this specification was written on May 25th, when th= e author was observing the feast day of the Venerable Bede", or whatev= er the actual date was), I'd be OK with that.
>
> Given that we're even discussing this awesome side reference on Fa= cebook now, you folks could drop the whole point, but that would be sad :D = ...
>
> Spencer
>
> Roni
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Spencer Dawkins [mailto:spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com]
> > Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=91 19 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 = 23:51
> > To: The IESG
> > Cc: dr= aft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; avtcore-=
> > chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; avt@ietf.org
> > Subject: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-<= wbr>bis-12: (with
> > COMMENT)
> >
> > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for
> > draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Yes
> >
> > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to= all email
> > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this= introductory
> > paragraph, however.)
> >
> >
> > Please refer to https://www.ietf.= org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > >
> >
> > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found her= e:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.o= rg/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
> > COMMENT:
> > ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
> >
> > I like it. I did have a couple of non-blocking questions.
> >
> > I couldn't parse this sentence.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0"A transmitter may be aware that
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 an intermediary may add RTP header extensions in thi= s case, the
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 transmitter SHOULD use two-byte form."
> >
> > I think
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In the one-byte header form of extensions, the 16-bi= t value required
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 by the RTP specification for a header extension, lab= eled in the RTP
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 specification as "defined by profile", MUS= T have the fixed bit
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 pattern 0xBEDE (the first version of this specificat= ion was written
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 on the feast day of the Venerable Bede).
> >
> > is flipping awesome, but likely impenetrable for folks who haven&= #39;t studied
> > English history in the 600s and 700s. Perhaps a reference, or, mo= re likely, just
> > say "May 25" so it's not a mystery?
> >
>
>

David Singer
Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.


--001a11493344461dc605528c2fd6-- From nobody Thu Jun 22 06:11:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847E3128854; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:11:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hiv5UxhJVAZm; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 803FE1243F3; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DPQ23243; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 13:11:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 14:11:43 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.209) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 21:11:39 +0800 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 21:11:36 +0800 From: Roni Even To: "singer@apple.com" , Spencer Dawkins at IETF CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Magnus Westerlund , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS61iWMxOsSkgDckKO5csjRINzw6Iw20aQ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 13:11:35 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBC0C@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149790546253.10765.13752234050862281788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBAE0@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> <13341AFE-E840-49A2-AEA7-F583BA0E0B7F@apple.com> In-Reply-To: <13341AFE-E840-49A2-AEA7-F583BA0E0B7F@apple.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.594BC20F.0284, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.18, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 6894db3d98ea7f191470f33dfc9be6b2 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 13:11:49 -0000 T0ssIHdpbGwgcHV0IE1heSAyNXRoIA0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+ IEZyb206IHNpbmdlckBhcHBsZS5jb20gW21haWx0bzpzaW5nZXJAYXBwbGUuY29tXQ0KPiBTZW50 OiDXmdeV153CoNeUIDIyINeZ15XXoNeZIDIwMTcgMTY6MDgNCj4gVG86IFNwZW5jZXIgRGF3a2lu cyBhdCBJRVRGDQo+IENjOiBSb25pIEV2ZW47IFRoZSBJRVNHOyBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWF2dGNvcmUt cmZjNTI4NS1iaXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGF2dGNvcmUtDQo+IGNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgTWFnbnVz IFdlc3Rlcmx1bmQ7IGF2dEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogU3BlbmNlciBEYXdraW5z JyBZZXMgb24gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1hdnRjb3JlLXJmYzUyODUtYmlzLTEyOiAod2l0aA0KPiBDT01N 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DGGEMM402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.210) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 14:15:50 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.210]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 21:15:31 +0800 From: Roni Even To: Eric Rescorla CC: The IESG , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" , "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS61a3aP7rmzm+KEWpn2LKYDOUKqIw1u+w Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 13:15:31 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBC1F@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149791884335.23828.13769788810069405479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBAE6@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: 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(amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uDKMdIwOP2qA for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb0-x232.google.com (mail-yb0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8023D128D3E for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 84so4555926ybe.0 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:21:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=gWI9e76BZCugwhl6EW5O7PQZmacEQ/BaIHyUbotEbCg=; b=wloJjxtK6sKhBzD3njpWL5idR75c1YuZSUsfiWKBPEf2VMcCW2PtCiqrC8ijGkxzhs 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10.37.214.12 with SMTP id n12mr1747909ybg.122.1498137699757; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:21:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.13.215.9 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:20:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBC1F@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <149791884335.23828.13769788810069405479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBAE6@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DBC1F@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 06:20:59 -0700 Message-ID: To: Roni Even Cc: The IESG , "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" , "draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org" , "avt@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114fcb706b4d3e05528c5dce" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 13:21:44 -0000 --001a114fcb706b4d3e05528c5dce Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:15 AM, Roni Even wrote: > Want to use only one byte header extensions for the audio for routing > audio on low bandwidth link. > But mixed mode allows this. > Anyhow many of the RTP header extensions will be different between the > audio and video > I don't see how this is relevant. -Ekr > Roni > > > > *From:* Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.com] > *Sent:* =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=94 22 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 15:54 > *To:* Roni Even > *Cc:* The IESG; avtcore-chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; > draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; avt@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-= 12: > (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Yes, I understand that, but why would you not want to mix? I assume merel= y > because your implementation can't handle it, right? Is there some other > reason? > > > > -Ekr > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 4:32 AM, Roni Even wrote: > > inline > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.com] > > Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=92 20 =D7=99=D7=95=D7=A0=D7=99 2017 03:34 > > To: The IESG > > Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Westerlund; avtcore= - > > chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; avt@ietf.org > > Subject: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: > (with > > DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email > > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory > > paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria. > html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Why are you allowing this extension to be "normal" in BUNDLE? > > If you're bundling, you should be modern enough to handle mixed, no? Wh= y > > not make life simple? > > > > > [Roni Even] It is not a question about handing mixing if you bundle but i= f > there is a use case where you do not want to mix for one of the m-lines. > This is the discussion since even if you use normal you can still do > identical (for example by having the allow mixing at the session level) b= ut > not the opposite. > > > --001a114fcb706b4d3e05528c5dce Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:15 AM, Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com> wrote:

Want to use only one byte= header extensions for the audio for routing audio on low bandwidth link. <= /span>


But mixed mode allow= s this.

=C2=A0

Anyhow many of the RTP header extensions will be different between the audio and video


I don't see how this is relevant.

-Ek= r
=C2=A0

Roni=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Yes, I understand that, but why would you not want t= o mix? I assume merely because your implementation can't handle it, rig= ht? Is there some other reason?

=C2=A0

-Ekr

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 4:32 AM, Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com> wrote:

inline

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.com]
> Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D=C2=A0=D7=92 20 =D7=99=D7=95= =D7=A0=D7=99 2017 03:34
> To: The IESG
> Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis@ietf.org; Magnus Wester= lund; avtcore-
> chairs@ietf.org; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; avt@ietf.org
> Subject: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: (with
> DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
> Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis-12: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email
> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this intr= oductory
> paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5285-bis/<= /a>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
> DISCUSS:
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>
> Why are you allowing this extension to be "normal" in BUNDLE= ?
> If you're bundling, you should be modern enough to handle mixed, n= o? Why
> not make life simple?
>
>
[Roni Even] It is not a question about handing mixing if you bundle but if = there is a use case where you do not want to mix for one of the m-lines. Th= is is the discussion since even if you use normal you can still do identica= l (for example by having the allow mixing at the session level) but not the opposite.

=C2=A0


--001a114fcb706b4d3e05528c5dce-- From nobody Fri Jun 23 09:57:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64F731270B4 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:57:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id phMRy674E7gh for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtps.ntu.edu.tw (smtps.ntu.edu.tw [140.112.2.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3AD812700F for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-f46.google.com (mail-vk0-f46.google.com [209.85.213.46]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtps.ntu.edu.tw (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2007106856 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:57:02 +0800 (CST) Received: by mail-vk0-f46.google.com with SMTP id y70so16556270vky.3 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:57:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwlS64IGl4ip+busbTlUHG/AtwPgfWsvfj5JgNBjfZJi8RF+DOU N/1Sh5nedbamwwCN/60hnnM4+HsdUg== X-Received: by 10.31.88.6 with SMTP id m6mr3296246vkb.0.1498237020883; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:57:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.31.208.130 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:57:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Polly Huang Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:57:00 +0800 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: avt@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114e62066b81480552a37d8b" Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] ACM SenSys 2017 Call for Poster/Demo X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 16:57:09 -0000 --001a114e62066b81480552a37d8b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -- Our sincere apologies if you receive multiple copies of the call -- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Call for Posters and Demos ACM Sensys 2017 http://sensys.acm.org/2017/ Delft, The Netherlands =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D SenSys 2017 solicits submissions of poster and demo abstracts reflecting on-going research progress and/or demonstrating working prototypes. We welcome submissions in broadly defined areas of interests (but not limited to): systems of smart sensors and actuators, brand-new applications of sensory devices, smart things, and smart infrastructure, and the underlying research challenges in communication, networking, energy and resources, data management, algorithms and machine intelligence, hardware designs, and deployment on real environments. Student participants will greatly benefit from the Posters and Demos session; it will be a lively forum to present their work and receive early feedback from international leading experts attending the conference. We explicitly encourage submissions of revolutionary concepts, path breaking ideas, and ongoing research prototypes. Major IT industry as well as emerging technology startups are also highly encouraged to participate. SenSys is an ideal venue to present brand-new products, early prototypes, new development platforms, or even ongoing crowdfunding projects of smart platforms and solutions that might catalyse future applications and/or disrupt today=E2=80=99s sensing and networking technologies. Submitted abstracts will be evaluated based on technical merit and innovation as well as their potential to stimulate interesting discussions and exchange of ideas. Authors of accepted abstracts will be given a one-minute slot in a =E2=80=9Cmadness session=E2=80=9D during the conference to present their work in front of the conference audience. As with previous editions of SenSys, the best poster and demo will receive an award= . All abstracts shall be formatted according to the main conference paper layout. Accepted abstracts will appear in the conference proceedings and the ACM Digital Library. ## Submission Guidelines * Posters and Demos must be submitted as a single PDF containing no more than 2 pages. The submission should be self-contained ready for publication, including the title, authors, institutional affiliations and contact information, abstract, main body, and references. Please DO NOT anonymize your submission. Upon acceptance, instructions for the final camera-ready abstract will be provided. * You may include links to additional online material such as videos. Links to videos showing the demonstration are especially encouraged. Videos of accepted posters/demos will be linked from the SenSys web pages and permanently included in the ACM Digital Library. * To submit a demo abstract, please add =E2=80=9CDemo Abstract:=E2=80=9D at= the beginning of the manuscript=E2=80=99s title. * To submit a poster abstract, please add =E2=80=9CPoster Abstract:=E2=80= =9D at the beginning of the manuscript=E2=80=99s title. * Template link for MS Word and LaTeX. (If LaTeX is used, please use =E2=80=98Option 2=E2=80=99) * Submissions for posters and demos can be done separately at the following URL: https://sensys17.hotcrp.com/ ## Important dates * Submission: August 16, 2017 * Notification of acceptance: August 25, 2017 * Camera-ready abstract: September 9, 2017 ## Co-chairs * Andrew Markham, University of Oxford * Marco Zuniga, Delft University of Technology --001a114e62066b81480552a37d8b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">-- Our sincere apologies if you receive multiple = copies of the call --

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Call for Poster= s and Demos
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0ACM Sensys 2017
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://sensys.acm.org= /2017/
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Delft, Th= e Netherlands
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

SenSys 2017 solicits submissions of poster and demo abstracts reflecting on= -going
research progress and/or demonstrating working prototypes. We welcome submi= ssions
in broadly defined areas of interests (but not limited to): systems of smar= t sensors
and actuators, brand-new applications of sensory devices, smart things, and= smart
infrastructure, and the underlying research challenges in communication, ne= tworking,
energy and resources, data management, algorithms and machine intelligence,=
hardware designs, and deployment on real environments.

Student participants will greatly benefit from the Posters and Demos sessio= n; it will
be a lively forum to present their work and receive early feedback from int= ernational
leading experts attending the conference. We explicitly encourage submissio= ns of
revolutionary concepts, path breaking ideas, and ongoing research prototype= s.

Major IT industry as well as emerging technology startups are also highly e= ncouraged
to participate. SenSys is an ideal venue to present brand-new products, ear= ly prototypes,
new development platforms, or even ongoing crowdfunding projects of smart p= latforms
and solutions that might catalyse future applications and/or disrupt today= =E2=80=99s sensing
and networking technologies.

Submitted abstracts will be evaluated based on technical merit and innovati= on as well
as their potential to stimulate interesting discussions and exchange of ide= as. Authors
of accepted abstracts will be given a one-minute slot in a =E2=80=9Cmadness= session=E2=80=9D during
the conference to present their work in front of the conference audience. A= s with
previous editions of SenSys, the best poster and demo will receive an award= .

All abstracts shall be formatted according to the main conference paper lay= out. Accepted
abstracts will appear in the conference proceedings and the ACM Digital Lib= rary.

## Submission Guidelines

* Posters and Demos must be submitted as a single PDF containing no more th= an 2 pages.
The submission should be self-contained ready for publication, including th= e title, authors,
institutional affiliations and contact information, abstract, main body, an= d references.
Please DO NOT anonymize your submission. Upon acceptance, instructions for = the
final camera-ready abstract will be provided.=E2=80=A8
* You may include links to additional online material such as videos. Links= to videos showing
the demonstration are especially encouraged. Videos of accepted posters/dem= os will be
linked from the SenSys web pages and permanently included in the ACM Digita= l Library.=E2=80=A8
* To submit a demo abstract, please add =E2=80=9CDemo Abstract:=E2=80=9D at= the beginning of the
manuscript=E2=80=99s title.=E2=80=A8
* To submit a poster abstract, please add =E2=80=9CPoster Abstract:=E2=80= =9D at the beginning of the
manuscript=E2=80=99s title.=E2=80=A8
* Template link for MS Word and LaTeX. (If LaTeX is used, please use =E2=80= =98Option 2=E2=80=99)=E2=80=A8
* Submissions for posters and demos can be done separately at the following= URL:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0https://sensys17.hotcrp.com/=E2=80=A8

## Important dates

* Submission: August 16, 2017
* Notification of acceptance: August 25, 2017
* Camera-ready abstract: September 9, 2017

## Co-chairs

* Andrew Markham, University of Oxford
* Marco Zuniga, Delft University of Technology


--001a114e62066b81480552a37d8b-- From nobody Fri Jun 23 17:11:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietf.org Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2357112EB0C; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:07:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: ben@nostrum.com, avt@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149826282913.7840.4686693627617806495.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:07:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] avtcore - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 99 X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:07:10 -0000 Dear Rachel Huang, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. avtcore Session 1 (1:00:00) Friday, Afternoon Session II 1150-1320 Room Name: Berlin/Brussels size: 100 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Rachel Huang Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 30 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: mmusic payload xrblock perc dispatch rtcweb artarea quic rmcat netvc ice Second Priority: ippm tsvarea tsvwg iccrg People who must be present: Jonathan Lennox Ben Campbell Rachel Huang Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Jun 26 12:11:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2FFC126C3D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 12:11:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dV4cX58cCAPd for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 12:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5051126B71 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 12:11:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8524; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1498504304; x=1499713904; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=hR1VH+9iUM+OO4Nfk2g/mTacaw4lnve1oQTQqM4eSZ0=; b=GZd0SKPO99ey2+kbVuL00GHCv14aUhLLh34xewnbnsVFQHxUogri72Gr g2CyfsjD4oBzSK9gT9QbrRXmki7iR2Mew1q6vYLCkYK/PY/fIphXYz6VV GXAywPh/PrP2ckfDoJ0v3yf7bg7o6qhPh7xUIk8RhWtLt3miyMP0CuQ0n Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AAAQA7W1FZ/51dJa1dGgEBAQECAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QgBAQEBgm88LWKBDQeNfpFikE+FK4IRgl6DRoJvPxgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIUYAQY?= =?us-ascii?q?tOwoZAQgRAwECKDkUCQoEARKJSGSzEotZAQEBAQEFAQEBAQEjgyeDTIUFhEZEh?= =?us-ascii?q?VQFkQmNYAKTZZISlSABHzg/S3QVhVYcGYFNdoZ3gTKBDQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,397,1493683200"; d="scan'208,217";a="446096638" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 26 Jun 2017 19:11:43 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com (xch-aln-001.cisco.com [173.36.7.11]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v5QJBesT007463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 26 Jun 2017 19:11:40 GMT Received: from xch-aln-005.cisco.com (173.36.7.15) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 14:11:40 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-005.cisco.com ([173.36.7.15]) by XCH-ALN-005.cisco.com ([173.36.7.15]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 14:11:40 -0500 From: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" To: Roni Even , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [AVTCORE] Adding information to draft-ietf-avtext-framemarking non-scalable extension Thread-Index: AQHS7rAKF2jlKp9cb0q1fDdcNPVwmA== Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 19:11:40 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.3.170325 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.175.227] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D576D1926F8FEmzanatyciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Adding information to draft-ietf-avtext-framemarking non-scalable extension X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 19:11:47 -0000 --_000_D576D1926F8FEmzanatyciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Roni, Low motion can be inferred from low bitrate. But I don't see how any low mo= tion indicator is useful for discard decisions. If you discard the wrong pa= ckets, the distortion will be even more extreme for low motion/bitrate cont= ent, since the focus is concentrated on one or few regions of low motion wh= ich are very easy to corrupt with a single discarded packet. If you get luc= ky and discard the right packets (skip blocks of static regions), that is j= ust plain luck with no help from frame marking. Priority bits are arguably more useful for discard decisions. However, when= multiple frames are truly discardable (e.g. they are never used as referen= ces), there is usually a temporal layer hierarchy that can be used to infer= the priority from TID. I would like to hear from others if there is any strong argument for includ= ing or excluding a low motion indication bit or priority bits. Thanks, Mo From: avt > on behalf of = Roni Even > Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:11 AM To: "avt@ietf.org" > Subject: [AVTCORE] Adding information to draft-ietf-avtext-framemarking non= -scalable extension Hi, The current support for non-scalable frame marking provide limited informat= ion for making good decisions about which packets to drop in congestion cas= e. Currently there is only 1 bit for marking discardable packets. I propose using three of the remaining four bits (currently 0000) with the= following semantics: Low motion bit (M) - specifying that this stream or the current packets hav= e low motion (example - a conference room meeting ), removing them will jus= t reduce the frame rate with less artifacts comparing with a live video of = a basketball game. Priority (P) two bits - allowing to prioritize frames in a stream. For exam= ple if we have a sequence (IBBBBPBBB...) even though all B frames may be de= fined as discardable, they may have different relation to the other frames = and by using priority we can make better discarding decisions. The way it may work for example is that when there is a need to discard pa= ckets the middlebox will choose from the discardable packets the ones with= low motion and low priority and continue dropping low motion and higher pr= iority. The dropping policy should be implementation dependent. Roni Even --_000_D576D1926F8FEmzanatyciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Roni,

Low motion can be inferred from low bitrate. But I don't see how any l= ow motion indicator is useful for discard decisions. If you discard the wro= ng packets, the distortion will be even more extreme for low motion/bitrate= content, since the focus is concentrated on one or few regions of low motion which are very easy to corrupt with a = single discarded packet. If you get lucky and discard the right packets (sk= ip blocks of static regions), that is just plain luck with no help from fra= me marking.

Priority bits are arguably more useful for discard decisions. However,= when multiple frames are truly discardable (e.g. they are never used as re= ferences), there is usually a temporal layer hierarchy that can be used to = infer the priority from TID.

I would like to hear from others if there is any strong argument for i= ncluding or excluding a low motion indication bit or priority bits.

Thanks,
Mo


From: avt <avt-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Roni Even <= roni.even@huawei.com>
Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:1= 1 AM
To: "avt@ietf.org" <avt@ietf.= org>
Subject: [AVTCORE] Adding informati= on to draft-ietf-avtext-framemarking non-scalable extension

Hi,

The current support for non-scalable frame marking p= rovide limited information for making good decisions about which packets to= drop in congestion case. Currently there is only 1 bit for marking discard= able packets.

 

I propose using three of the remaining  four bi= ts (currently 0000) with the following semantics:

 

Low motion bit (M) – specifying that this stre= am or the current packets have low motion (example – a conference roo= m meeting ), removing them will just reduce the frame rate with less artifa= cts comparing with a live video of a basketball game.

Priority (P) two bits – allowing to prioritize= frames in a stream. For example if we have a sequence (IBBBBPBBB…) e= ven though all B frames may be defined as discardable, they may have differ= ent relation to the other frames and by using priority we can make better discarding decisions.

 

The way it may work for example  is that when t= here is a need to discard packets  the middlebox will choose from the = discardable packets the ones with low motion and low priority and continue = dropping low motion and higher priority. The dropping policy should be implementation dependent.

 

 

Roni Even

 --_000_D576D1926F8FEmzanatyciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Jun 26 22:22:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F9012EB77 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:21:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IPWkTqkpxS80 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C82C12EB6B for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DPW84961; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 05:21:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.214) by lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 06:21:52 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.214]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:21:45 +0800 From: Roni Even To: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" , "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [AVTCORE] Adding information to draft-ietf-avtext-framemarking non-scalable extension Thread-Index: AQHS7rAKF2jlKp9cb0q1fDdcNPVwmKI4K9Pg Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 05:21:45 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DC454@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.55] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DC454DGGEMM506MBXchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0203.5951EB72.0060, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.18, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 8efa296595e3a306db224d133d03fe0c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Adding information to draft-ietf-avtext-framemarking non-scalable extension X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 05:21:59 -0000 --_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DC454DGGEMM506MBXchina_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mo, About the low motion, it can work with combination of low priority. So low = dropping low priority with low motion is better than low priority with high= motion. As for the priority, this is intended for the non-scalable case where we do= not provide any information about the content of the video frame which can= provide better discard policy for implementations We did some tests and this works well enough. Roni From: Mo Zanaty (mzanaty) [mailto:mzanaty@cisco.com] Sent: =E9=E5=ED =E1 26 =E9=E5=F0=E9 2017 22:12 To: Roni Even; avt@ietf.org Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Adding information to draft-ietf-avtext-framemarking= non-scalable extension Hi Roni, Low motion can be inferred from low bitrate. But I don't see how any low mo= tion indicator is useful for discard decisions. If you discard the wrong pa= ckets, the distortion will be even more extreme for low motion/bitrate cont= ent, since the focus is concentrated on one or few regions of low motion wh= ich are very easy to corrupt with a single discarded packet. If you get luc= ky and discard the right packets (skip blocks of static regions), that is j= ust plain luck with no help from frame marking. Priority bits are arguably more useful for discard decisions. However, when= multiple frames are truly discardable (e.g. they are never used as referen= ces), there is usually a temporal layer hierarchy that can be used to infer= the priority from TID. I would like to hear from others if there is any strong argument for includ= ing or excluding a low motion indication bit or priority bits. Thanks, Mo From: avt > on behalf of = Roni Even > Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:11 AM To: "avt@ietf.org" > Subject: [AVTCORE] Adding information to draft-ietf-avtext-framemarking non= -scalable extension Hi, The current support for non-scalable frame marking provide limited informat= ion for making good decisions about which packets to drop in congestion cas= e. Currently there is only 1 bit for marking discardable packets. I propose using three of the remaining four bits (currently 0000) with the= following semantics: Low motion bit (M) =96 specifying that this stream or the current packets h= ave low motion (example =96 a conference room meeting ), removing them will= just reduce the frame rate with less artifacts comparing with a live video= of a basketball game. Priority (P) two bits =96 allowing to prioritize frames in a stream. For ex= ample if we have a sequence (IBBBBPBBB=85) even though all B frames may be = defined as discardable, they may have different relation to the other frame= s and by using priority we can make better discarding decisions. The way it may work for example is that when there is a need to discard pa= ckets the middlebox will choose from the discardable packets the ones with= low motion and low priority and continue dropping low motion and higher pr= iority. The dropping policy should be implementation dependent. Roni Even --_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DC454DGGEMM506MBXchina_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Mo,

About the low motion, = it can work with combination of low priority. So low dropping low priority = with low motion is better than low priority with high motion.

As for the priority, t= his is intended for the non-scalable case where we do not provide any infor= mation about the content of the video frame which can provide better discar= d policy for implementations

 

We did some tests and = this works well enough. 

 

Roni=

 

From: Mo Zanat= y (mzanaty) [mailto:mzanaty@cisco.com]
Sent: =E9=E5=ED =E1 26 =E9=E5=F0=E9<= span dir=3D"LTR"> 2017 22:12
To: Roni Even; avt@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Adding information to draft-ietf-avtext-frame= marking non-scalable extension

 

Hi Roni,

 

Low motion can be inferred fro= m low bitrate. But I don't see how any low motion indicator is useful for d= iscard decisions. If you discard the wrong packets, the distortion will be even more extreme for low motion/bitrate content, since= the focus is concentrated on one or few regions of low motion which are ve= ry easy to corrupt with a single discarded packet. If you get lucky and dis= card the right packets (skip blocks of static regions), that is just plain luck with no help from frame markin= g.

 

Priority bits are arguably mor= e useful for discard decisions. However, when multiple frames are truly dis= cardable (e.g. they are never used as references), there is usually a temporal layer hierarchy that can be used to infer the priori= ty from TID.

 

I would like to hear from othe= rs if there is any strong argument for including or excluding a low motion = indication bit or priority bits.

 

Thanks,

Mo

 

 

From: avt <avt= -bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com>
Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:11 AM
To: "avt@ietf.org" <= ;avt@ietf.org>
Subject: [AVTCORE] Adding information to draft-ietf-avtext-framemark= ing non-scalable extension

 

Hi,

The current support for = non-scalable frame marking provide limited information for making good deci= sions about which packets to drop in congestion case. Currently there is on= ly 1 bit for marking discardable packets.

 =

I propose using three of= the remaining  four bits (currently 0000) with the following semantic= s:

 =

Low motion bit (M) =96 s= pecifying that this stream or the current packets have low motion (example = =96 a conference room meeting ), removing them will just reduce the frame r= ate with less artifacts comparing with a live video of a basketball game.

Priority (P) two bits = =96 allowing to prioritize frames in a stream. For example if we have a seq= uence (IBBBBPBBB=85) even though all B frames may be defined as discardable= , they may have different relation to the other frames and by using priority we can make better discarding decisions= .

 =

The way it may work for = example  is that when there is a need to discard packets  the mid= dlebox will choose from the discardable packets the ones with low motion an= d low priority and continue dropping low motion and higher priority. The dropping policy should be implementation dependen= t.

 =

 =

Roni Even

--_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DC454DGGEMM506MBXchina_-- From nobody Wed Jun 28 23:05:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17C16127909 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:05:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZzHfURMdNT53 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:05:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1ACE2126E3A for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DQA36075; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 06:05:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 07:05:20 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.25]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 14:05:18 +0800 From: "Huangyihong (Rachel)" To: "avt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [avtcore] WGLC for mux-category issue of draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5282-bis-12 Thread-Index: AdLwnZp7sXeUq3WWT9e1QMHWLU8W7w== Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 06:05:17 +0000 Message-ID: <51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CBF80@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.153.152] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CBF80nkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.595498A1.00F6, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.1.25, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 3494ff38e6e34c58f6d515ce3bf3b489 Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] [avtcore] WGLC for mux-category issue of draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5282-bis-12 X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 06:05:25 -0000 --_000_51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CBF80nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Folks, As you may notice that there was a discussion for the mux category selectio= n for a=3Dextmap-allow-mixed in draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5282-bis-12. This iss= ue was raised by Magnus when he was doing the shepherd work. See https://ma= ilarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/BaElJmDlmDtOaAcXKV_Rk5fARgk. This discussio= n happened after the WGLC and no formal conclusion was made then. And now the discussion is restarted in IESG review of this draft. The autho= r thinks it should be Normal to cover multiple cases, while some people thi= nk it's better to be Identical to make things simple. So this email is to have a one-week WGLC for this issue and deliver a forma= l conclusion to IESG: If you do not agree that "Normal" mux category should be used for a=3Dextma= p-allow-mixed, please express it in the mailing list before 8th July. Thanks. BR, Rachel (as the co-chair) --_000_51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CBF80nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Folks,

 

As you may notice that there wa= s a discussion for the mux category selection for a=3Dextmap-allow-mixed in= draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc5282-bis-12. This issue was raised by Magnus when he= was doing the shepherd work. See https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/avt/BaElJmDlmDtOaAcXKV_Rk5fARg= k. This discussion happened after the WGLC and no formal conclusion was= made then.

 

And now the discussion is resta= rted in IESG review of this draft. The author thinks it should be Normal to= cover multiple cases, while some people think it’s better to be Iden= tical to make things simple.

 

So this email is to have a one-= week WGLC for this issue and deliver a formal conclusion to IESG:

 

If you do not agree that “= ;Normal” mux category should be used for a=3Dextmap-allow-mixed, plea= se express it in the mailing list before 8th July.

 

Thanks.

 

BR,

Rachel (as the co-chair)

--_000_51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CBF80nkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Fri Jun 30 01:38:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avt@ietf.org Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41A98128D3E; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 01:38:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: avt@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149881189224.4634.9992893413725350059@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 01:38:12 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [AVTCORE] I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-aria-srtp-10.txt X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 08:38:12 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance of the IETF. Title : The ARIA Algorithm and Its Use with the Secure Real-time Transport Protocol(SRTP) Authors : Woo-Hwan Kim Jungkeun Lee Je-Hong Park Daesung Kwon Dong-Chan Kim Filename : draft-ietf-avtcore-aria-srtp-10.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2017-06-30 Abstract: This document defines the use of the ARIA block cipher algorithm within the Secure Real-time Transport Protocol (SRTP). It details two modes of operation (CTR, GCM) and the SRTP Key Derivation Functions for ARIA. Additionally, this document defines DTLS-SRTP protection profiles and MIKEY parameter sets for the use with ARIA. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-aria-srtp/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-avtcore-aria-srtp-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-avtcore-aria-srtp-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-avtcore-aria-srtp-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/