From nobody Wed Apr 7 20:53:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 213E43A380A; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:53:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fUJmxOU6oJJw; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x12f.google.com (mail-il1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 729033A380F; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id d2so595047ilm.10; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 20:52:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=luFO/wGKmje6pqMuSi86QQqjFCISkIXSrRY8AaiVWbw=; b=apXUTH2TkZupQoSydK89KfFUEL3XgpMz4S7eL3YVcj28VUe+IkDtgGTHB5hwPwsO8r mlXXLw1pOZ7DgnBchkg/CQSixjGZOSxmehh01leRPsNbiRu/Pq1dC95n9xjbazD2nDat 0xN8YR9HbSeRspxW1GwBfeY57xsxamQUoELqov5x7fpyDv5/yTNwwoyXjIQyI26nsSg0 3mqifE+514un8AUcdX66ANSSEAz+nxWNXWwCYI3hKahFePMitIGEWJWNNECBbGCCggSt knWco464LRGnCkwVPWYHcNIYcEhhg3lHHsK305Z8sX9dXY6MK4J7appYiR6urHsYBrBg 6/Pw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=luFO/wGKmje6pqMuSi86QQqjFCISkIXSrRY8AaiVWbw=; b=ebDi6P6XthEvQ5IwsTni/e57eWDRps8QuiqeuF+XkJdous3TxgWgue6GXDO0WiAHvR NgKLsGaY0PBLK3Bi0oq4gEtkz+bYTlRjDrUHTt/XyFkQsZ2duSeBgV1NyJ+22hCDLHG3 6poldNpi84hboAI7/Ky0DrgjbagdIY5LOOHQxwHOfEoIgM+wjB1TNZKtGhGMKpKs1aFP ap738YlK9uqOpAKxM3jjQFf1lWuBWENo3dllATO6dxYUTw3tuwes5km/8QfDs11yZEx5 7uoXqYGhimw9aqOUgVUedOVaxZx9HNy0cbQOqlTOf6BXkfwkOVS55R2g9H/mcYHYReSY tRjw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530mbZrDh5MrB9qv3uNKDEJ64mFYGEEbKYBFUKLyrsXz45pe8ULT qF09DR7QkelLXtlNX81kiUm+WfP3xked659XNhQoNVctlIk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyeeSVzNAo9vzKPECW8flUiE42p6NY4yT0T9kiegQ2maVteBvcAg/7tnW2yiSI8l5AdaRkxevOg74d8AYYB4gs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:12c9:: with SMTP id i9mr5376488ilm.276.1617853963889; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 20:52:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160321741182.20077.1775706618101177377@ietfa.amsl.com> <42028b97-c2ff-6a25-e8ac-c77129caac73@ens.fr> In-Reply-To: <42028b97-c2ff-6a25-e8ac-c77129caac73@ens.fr> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 23:52:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: Babel at IETF Cc: babel-chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-00.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 03:53:12 -0000 Hi, Writing as a co-Chair, I think we should determine the WG decision on how to handle the IP source address for IPv4 ICMP generated by a Babel router that has no interface with an IPv4 address. Juliusz presented on this topic to our meeting at the March IETF meeting. See https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/materials/slides-110-babel-babel-s= ource-specific-and-v4-via-v6-02 specifically slides 5 through the end. I think slides 10 and 11 cover the practical choices. Any feedback or opinions welcome. There is one other question in my mind. Does this draft really need to be Experimental? I would be inclined to target it to Proposed Standard. (At least in theory an Experimental RFC should say what the experiment is and how the results will be determined, although there certainly are Experimental RFCs that fail to do this.) Thanks, Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 3:34 PM Th=C3=A9ophile Bastian wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dire= ctories. > > This draft is a work item of the Babel routing protocol WG of the IETF. > > > > Title : IPv4 routes with an IPv6 next-hop in the Bab= el routing protocol > > Authors : Theophile Bastian > > Juliusz Chroboczek > > Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-00.txt > > Pages : 8 > > Date : 2020-10-20 > > With much delay (sorry about this, I got caught in too many things at > once), I uploaded `draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-00` as discussed in IETF108, > which replaces `draft-bastian-babel-v4ov6-NN`. > > In this submission, I only updated the submission name, slightly changed > the title and the date. I will shortly begin to work on an updated > version, which will > > =E2=80=94 use "v4-via-v6" instead of "v4-over-v6" (thanks Barbara for the= name, > it is definitely better); > =E2=80=94 address the ICMPv4 issue (if a machine has no IPv4 address at a= ll on > any interface, it is unable to send ICMPv4 packet). > > Cheers, > -- > Th=C3=A9ophile Bastian > > _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel From nobody Thu Apr 8 05:22:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD383A1501; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:22:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f2OBpYvzvwwk; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2C323A14FE; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 138CMlwd006054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 8 Apr 2021 14:22:47 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/82085) with ESMTP id 138CMkQX023827; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 14:22:46 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB893E6F1F; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 14:22:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id LwwnAhld3rdO; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 14:22:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22DE6E6F17; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 14:22:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 14:22:43 +0200 Message-ID: <87eeflm0do.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Donald Eastlake Cc: Babel at IETF , babel-chairs In-Reply-To: References: <160321741182.20077.1775706618101177377@ietfa.amsl.com> <42028b97-c2ff-6a25-e8ac-c77129caac73@ens.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Thu, 08 Apr 2021 14:22:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Thu, 08 Apr 2021 14:22:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 606EF597.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 606EF596.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 606EF597.000 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 606EF596.002 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 606EF597.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 606EF596.002 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-00.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 12:22:54 -0000 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/materials/slides-110-babel-babel-source-specific-and-v4-via-v6-02 > specifically slides 5 through the end. > I think slides 10 and 11 cover the practical choices. Any feedback or > opinions welcome. To restate the opinion I presented during my talk: the dependency of PMTUd on ICMP is the fundamental problem here, since it breaks the end-to-end nature of TCP. The Babel WG is however not the right forum to redesign PMTUd. 無. The draft should merely say that every IPv4 router MUST be able to send ICMPv4 packets. How this is realised is an implementation detail -- the v4 address could be assigned to the outgoing interface, to the router as a whole, or a fallback address hard-wired in the ICMPv4 module. The draft should also state that the router need not be able to receive packets destined to that address, and that the address need not be locally or globally unique. It should discuss debuggability issues, perhaps in an informative appendix. > There is one other question in my mind. Does this draft really need to > be Experimental? I would be inclined to target it to Proposed Standard. I'm a little uneasy on this subject. My personal feeling is that we haven't done our homework on this extension (admittedly my fault), and that we don't have enough implementation and deployment experience to propose it as a standard right now. I'd be delighted if people could disagree. -- Juliusz From nobody Thu Apr 8 05:43:23 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietf.org Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 787353A15D5; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:43:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.27.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: Donald Eastlake , babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, d3e3e3@gmail.com, draft-ietf-babel-yang-model@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com Reply-To: last-call@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <161788580040.14525.8607775335520195175@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 05:43:20 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [babel] Last Call: (YANG Data Model for Babel) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 12:43:21 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Babel routing protocol WG (babel) to consider the following document: - 'YANG Data Model for Babel' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2021-04-22. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document defines a data model for the Babel routing protocol. The data model is defined using the YANG data modeling language. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-yang-model/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Thu Apr 8 07:21:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A9A33A19BE; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 07:21:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=toke.dk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MvouAfFt66U6; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 07:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.toke.dk (mail.toke.dk [IPv6:2a0c:4d80:42:2001::664]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A59E3A19A9; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 07:21:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Toke =?utf-8?Q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=toke.dk; s=20161023; t=1617891690; bh=eS8Dtij9fb2JK+MX2hrv8LNyQCjHbdn0UcVVPkgQ8VM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=P1xvBGD3OabnQ4KXs8gpVgoJZvGC2Fsi5oo7lU50l92ivGY0YbzfCr0CGW0zqTDlD I1pqgTIPhsE0fjus8C+RsV0YsbWdYz798qsH8r3RrTbqKr98VsYikdhK/QtKW/8XSd sRKERAKatp+9B9X6mYfMUAxgbkWAO7ZW2aq0Z2IgXy4AonPr5O5B54baGz0tyMePrz sLK0RQqDT+UnPsji1bNLYq18WgHpCbC/o4B8JXjyglt7iFJ0VuI6wWb0lMVyR4FADH NWGm+cJMrUngaKO2lkRD6HwhlPWIcIVQ0t2OBNp1vt/N8sY4mALLFMrUcElXi9rnY0 6b3kDY01RbWpA== To: Juliusz Chroboczek , Donald Eastlake Cc: babel-chairs , Babel at IETF In-Reply-To: <87eeflm0do.wl-jch@irif.fr> References: <160321741182.20077.1775706618101177377@ietfa.amsl.com> <42028b97-c2ff-6a25-e8ac-c77129caac73@ens.fr> <87eeflm0do.wl-jch@irif.fr> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 16:21:29 +0200 X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Message-ID: <87mtu8zwk6.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-00.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 14:21:58 -0000 Juliusz Chroboczek writes: >> There is one other question in my mind. Does this draft really need to >> be Experimental? I would be inclined to target it to Proposed Standard. > > I'm a little uneasy on this subject. My personal feeling is that we > haven't done our homework on this extension (admittedly my fault), and > that we don't have enough implementation and deployment experience to > propose it as a standard right now. > > I'd be delighted if people could disagree. Isn't that just a matter of time? I.e., we could adopt it as PS, with the expectation that by the time it gets published we will have built that experience? Or does there even need to be a final decision about the status at adoption time? -Toke From nobody Thu Apr 8 08:55:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F753A0CBE; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 08:55:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7cu9eNI7HRXV; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 08:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x431.google.com (mail-pf1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E21D3A0C56; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 08:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x431.google.com with SMTP id c17so2142912pfn.6; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 08:54:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Y2aS+wjsrCAi0FST+g+c/X/Uk2r4aF4Y+ccZFAzYMig=; b=Qye2y47IlUEvxoh9Jw4WuGF/Xa5tkNI8jnnOqHs70F8ZS3ywKfsp4jMwhDdSZQYU3Z sl2Toj9VRY5C4/xPNNe3q/lO3iCaSsrP40x2IsiMogIJaiwRgbEbJ5PdH6NZCb1nGiO1 mIUrfbn3StFVfxkOjY6mTvdEicAHi98M7aK+68H9Pe2VtvVDHjL336EMJvTlWfr6qAqN SS+0eMlwq+Iz1qvwrF33TlcsMQIgBOxMuyXQLHv1CZ3chSXG78GnGI+yu+zo7Bh+hP6c rmDoBMAh/Vxj0s7QDPaU77LLQEQQ4IwOgwZ7F080FG132aZsyobVcUqjmMUPFjqMFyG6 UwFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Y2aS+wjsrCAi0FST+g+c/X/Uk2r4aF4Y+ccZFAzYMig=; b=sVbQ0BCJW+DEJJVmG+x4GLBVwgHoh6+xVsRxgtL49fJ/H8Nw1qtvazoLYcX6sY1Ogo rJsfoTwWx154eLPe8KErt9cCQx6FQwvQwb6RY58SybAyJYnJhzvoxBIJtdai4Tu4DgN2 0xDITK+GbLfSIm4MH1VWIHCmDQ4K5WjXQoTu/S/W5FMq5lilfQVilwl4jJ3b41GnEEVe APQPxwNES9RkZa3bdSIUGm38meUX3fIl08iNf3b9Frkhvj1xZWveC6HH1/1uXnpfEDnI quMHQCjXdWMDvjaod66iV4hyuwshPqNiJAcjOoR6vgs8jjSTHIZGTBNsdvZidLnupMXj dGUw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530o25O8ln39rUEjH/rFs3/RL9cUOGlSxq68RR/ls8tlq7Xhsnqt Yyl4tMM8mjnSWH1LIgKhdFcBR6rftg3InMGYKyU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzAOHXEMrW12ipRH5aIRZ6/00HpN943Y0WJBLQpM98qIDZMeZOlc1DMVzfTcUu4YTKi6JE8cG19pLmrwXAcd/8= X-Received: by 2002:a63:1d18:: with SMTP id d24mr8912887pgd.402.1617897295470; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 08:54:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160321741182.20077.1775706618101177377@ietfa.amsl.com> <42028b97-c2ff-6a25-e8ac-c77129caac73@ens.fr> <87eeflm0do.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87mtu8zwk6.fsf@toke.dk> In-Reply-To: <87mtu8zwk6.fsf@toke.dk> From: David Schinazi Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 08:54:44 -0700 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?B?VG9rZSBIw7hpbGFuZC1Kw7hyZ2Vuc2Vu?= Cc: Juliusz Chroboczek , Donald Eastlake , babel-chairs , Babel at IETF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000094653605bf7811fa" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-00.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 15:55:04 -0000 --00000000000094653605bf7811fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On the topic of the ICMP IPv4 source address, I agree with Juliusz. The specific value of that field is not required for interop, so in the spirit of Babel specs we shouldn't over-constrain implementations. Saying that routers need to be able to send ICMPv4 seems like the right choice here. I would suggest adding some implementation advice saying that using the same address (e.g. the dummy address ) on all routers is simplest but using different addresses can simplify debugging. On the topic of standards/experimental, I think that this specification matches the maturity required of a proposed standard as defined in RFC 2026 Section 4.1.1 . When RFC 188= 3 was published in 1995, I don't think that IPv6 had a lot of implementation and deployment experience. But I don't feel too strongly here, as the consumers of RFCs generally don't look at the track/category when deciding what or how to implement. David On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 7:22 AM Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen wrote: > Juliusz Chroboczek writes: > > >> There is one other question in my mind. Does this draft really need to > >> be Experimental? I would be inclined to target it to Proposed Standard= . > > > > I'm a little uneasy on this subject. My personal feeling is that we > > haven't done our homework on this extension (admittedly my fault), and > > that we don't have enough implementation and deployment experience to > > propose it as a standard right now. > > > > I'd be delighted if people could disagree. > > Isn't that just a matter of time? I.e., we could adopt it as PS, with > the expectation that by the time it gets published we will have built > that experience? Or does there even need to be a final decision about > the status at adoption time? > > -Toke > > _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel > --00000000000094653605bf7811fa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On the topic of the ICMP IPv4 source address, I agree with= Juliusz.
The specific value of that field is not required=C2=A0for int= erop, so in the
spirit of Babel specs we shouldn't over-const= rain implementations.
Saying that routers need to be able to send= ICMPv4 seems like the
right choice here. I would suggest adding = some implementation
advice saying that using the same address (e.= g. the dummy address)
on=C2=A0all routers is simplest but using di= fferent addresses can simplify
debugging.

On the topic of standards/experimental, I think that this specification
matches the maturity required of a proposed standard as defined in=
RFC 2026 Section 4.1.1. When=C2=A0RFC 1883=C2=A0was published in 1995,
I don't think that IPv6 had a=C2=A0lot of implementation and d= eployment
experience. But I don't feel too strongly here, as = the consumers of
RFCs generally don't look at the track/categ= ory when deciding what
or how to implement.

<= div>David

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 7:22 AM Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rge= nsen <toke=3D40toke.dk@dmarc= .ietf.org> wrote:
Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> writes:

>> There is one other question in my mind. Does this draft really nee= d to
>> be Experimental? I would be inclined to target it to Proposed Stan= dard.
>
> I'm a little uneasy on this subject.=C2=A0 My personal feeling is = that we
> haven't done our homework on this extension (admittedly my fault),= and
> that we don't have enough implementation and deployment experience= to
> propose it as a standard right now.
>
> I'd be delighted if people could disagree.

Isn't that just a matter of time? I.e., we could adopt it as PS, with the expectation that by the time it gets published we will have built
that experience? Or does there even need to be a final decision about
the status at adoption time?

-Toke

_______________________________________________
babel mailing list
babel@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel
--00000000000094653605bf7811fa-- From nobody Thu Apr 8 20:34:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F5353A298D; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 20:34:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.846 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.846 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KVGdeqz0n82B; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 20:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x129.google.com (mail-il1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B4983A298C; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 20:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x129.google.com with SMTP id x3so2993250ilg.5; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 20:34:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qV2ZsxtGcy1eQ4p97HsiTvBoLJK8DWZ7izhtzuWYJX0=; b=YduztYEaVvTT2sCkj6xS8nzTAlAuzeJQt6ZD409gcU9jO4Q0/ZrJqq8BIEBhaSvZZZ Ua0XYqOnt4upAPTX6iXKkFfFm1h4YTfNAbApzQvWCZkY2eNaqk1WzjuWKA2BfO4IQVl0 K95UvTy4tVkRZE8g992h+6yWQeeger0p0e1OMCE/NDWa0rJ/uorr3qN4W86mBbsP2Lsw qxi0ri6UaKpyJdqmNqvUflgTAi2MHwHV5Vkdb5bCDwukUemub/KQtO1XOOA5/QxZEJ80 dJA7U85GoFRltl1U4Gw1cOo+1//J28KZvR0SxcUFwAcruOqdBVaqEhk73qoxzS6PnfQr /QKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qV2ZsxtGcy1eQ4p97HsiTvBoLJK8DWZ7izhtzuWYJX0=; b=erRZxrskaNdGbn85gBTeGCAu/y9ntNXl5qwWz/wjD1KrHYN6zaViPfZDqfXfp+R+vY ZAfEMzOj5/UokomMLfalPS9EWVEFlqTl/kCMfGkxtopKoKewUZsXsqcbKLkvh+U79qsa epeO2AlE8aff6gad1S4Rh9ZIX2kijpv/T8avbmaq4xBopXBkgA3aDV+i4GGWYodfJ4mz rqsnyW3CrgE4Hkgw0WdIYiPcQ2IrnO47otpXoQjfBTMI5xXSQyPYoDmFXn4L1JogJUmI hnpauL9bXKwhgXK8URkS5w+WUHnbczZKmWUVzpi6dArrmSTl1EVd35cn2ViplqaEj9wr RE9A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530WjcU0uuyup63e4N8IrvoOOCW4X+nNHpgbWb5v3DwMMU70A4ki DTrxzNp8ErAiQ++w8ukd4qFGW6Pkna/e6ioF3hy63+sYguU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy+8XFzYK6G2mDD8KyXNYLn95Ei/lKBo1Vojx8mw+Gjayv1R4doz4YDdPhf9hj/fduKPnyIS9lGnVFfGBftcFE= X-Received: by 2002:a92:ad11:: with SMTP id w17mr8875440ilh.199.1617939259515; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 20:34:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160321741182.20077.1775706618101177377@ietfa.amsl.com> <42028b97-c2ff-6a25-e8ac-c77129caac73@ens.fr> <87eeflm0do.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87mtu8zwk6.fsf@toke.dk> In-Reply-To: From: Donald Eastlake Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 23:34:08 -0400 Message-ID: To: Babel at IETF Cc: babel-chairs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d4e74505bf81d6be" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-00.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 03:34:24 -0000 --000000000000d4e74505bf81d6be Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Speaking just as a Babel working group member: I view the source IP address of an ICMP as helping to identify, to the extent it can without undue effort, the router that generated the ICMP. And I agree that we should minimally constrain the Babel router consistent with that. 1. Obviously, if you are generating an ICMP to send out an interface and that interface has an IPv4 address, that's the address you use. 2. If the interface does not have an IPv4, then the router MAY use the IPv4 address of any other interface or an IPv4 address that it has been configured to use for this purpose. 3. If no IPv4 address is available as listed in 1. and 2., then it is RECOMMENDED that the Babel router dynamically generated a "Link Local" I= Pv4 address [RFC3927] and use that as the ICMP source IP address. 4. if none of the above are available or convenient, a Babel router MUST use the Babel dummy IPv4 address TBD (value 192.0.0.11 suggested). If people think this is too complex, step 3 could be dropped but it provides a significant improvement in identifying the ICMP source Babel router. There are plenty of "MAY"s and a RECOMMENDED in there so someone who just doesn't feel like implementing all this can skip most parts. I think we should get a Babel specific dummy address for the last resort step because it should be easy and it provides a tiny bit more identification than, for example, using the generic dunn IPv4 address. Thanks, Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com Thanks, Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 11:54 AM David Schinazi wrote: > On the topic of the ICMP IPv4 source address, I agree with Juliusz. > The specific value of that field is not required for interop, so in the > spirit of Babel specs we shouldn't over-constrain implementations. > Saying that routers need to be able to send ICMPv4 seems like the > right choice here. I would suggest adding some implementation > advice saying that using the same address (e.g. the dummy address > ) > on all routers is simplest but using different addresses can simplify > debugging. > > On the topic of standards/experimental, I think that this specification > matches the maturity required of a proposed standard as defined in > RFC 2026 Section 4.1.1 > . When RFC > 1883 was published in > 1995, > I don't think that IPv6 had a lot of implementation and deployment > experience. But I don't feel too strongly here, as the consumers of > RFCs generally don't look at the track/category when deciding what > or how to implement. > > David > > On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 7:22 AM Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen 40toke.dk@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> Juliusz Chroboczek writes: >> >> >> There is one other question in my mind. Does this draft really need t= o >> >> be Experimental? I would be inclined to target it to Proposed Standar= d. >> > >> > I'm a little uneasy on this subject. My personal feeling is that we >> > haven't done our homework on this extension (admittedly my fault), and >> > that we don't have enough implementation and deployment experience to >> > propose it as a standard right now. >> > >> > I'd be delighted if people could disagree. >> >> Isn't that just a matter of time? I.e., we could adopt it as PS, with >> the expectation that by the time it gets published we will have built >> that experience? Or does there even need to be a final decision about >> the status at adoption time? >> >> -Toke >> >> _______________________________________________ >> babel mailing list >> babel@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel >> > --000000000000d4e74505bf81d6be Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Speaking just as a Babel working group member:

I view the source IP address of an ICMP as helping to identify, to = the extent it can without=C2=A0undue effort, the router that generated the= ICMP. And I agree that we should minimally constrain the Babel router cons= istent=C2=A0with that.
  1. Obviously, if you are generat= ing an ICMP to send out an interface and that interface has an IPv4 address= , that's the address you use.
  2. If the interface does not have an= IPv4, then the router MAY use the IPv4 address of any other interface or a= n IPv4 address that it has been configured to use for this purpose.
    3. If no IPv4 address is available as listed in 1. and 2., then it is RECOMME= NDED that the Babel router dynamically generated=C2=A0a "Link Local&qu= ot; IPv4 address [RFC3927] and use that as the ICMP source IP address.=
  3. if none of the above are available or convenient, a Babel router MUST u= se the Babel dummy IPv4 address TBD (value 192.0.0.11 suggested).
=
If people think this is too complex, step 3 could be dropped but= it provides a significant improvement in identifying the ICMP source Babel= router. There are plenty of "MAY"s and a RECOMMENDED in there so= someone who just doesn't feel like implementing all this can skip most= parts. I think we should get a Babel specific dummy address for the last r= esort step because it should be easy and it provides a tiny bit more identi= fication than, for example, using the generic dunn IPv4 address.
=

Thanks,
Donald
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=C2=A0Donald E. Eastlak= e 3rd =C2=A0 +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
=C2=A02386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka,= FL 32703 USA
=C2=A0d3e3e3@gmail.com=


Thanks,
Donald
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=C2= =A0Donald E. Eastlake 3rd =C2=A0 +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
=C2=A02386 Panor= amic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA
=C2=A0d3e3e3@gmail.com


On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at = 11:54 AM David Schinazi <dsc= hinazi.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
On the topic of the ICMP IPv4 source = address, I agree with Juliusz.
The specific value of that field is not = required=C2=A0for interop, so in the
spirit of Babel specs we sho= uldn't over-constrain implementations.
Saying that routers ne= ed to be able to send ICMPv4 seems like the
right choice here. I = would suggest adding some implementation
advice saying that using= the same address (e.g. the dummy address)
on=C2= =A0all routers is simplest but using different addresses can simplify
=
debugging.

On the topic of standards/experime= ntal, I think that this specification
matches the maturity requir= ed of a proposed standard as defined in
RFC 2026 S= ection 4.1.1. When=C2=A0RFC 1883=C2=A0was published in 1995,
I don't think that IPv6 had a=C2=A0lot of implementation and d= eployment
experience. But I don't feel too strongly here, as = the consumers of
RFCs generally don't look at the track/categ= ory when deciding what
or how to implement.

<= div>David

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 7:22 AM Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rge= nsen <toke=3D40toke.dk@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> writes:

>> There is one other question in my mind. Does this draft really nee= d to
>> be Experimental? I would be inclined to target it to Proposed Stan= dard.
>
> I'm a little uneasy on this subject.=C2=A0 My personal feeling is = that we
> haven't done our homework on this extension (admittedly my fault),= and
> that we don't have enough implementation and deployment experience= to
> propose it as a standard right now.
>
> I'd be delighted if people could disagree.

Isn't that just a matter of time? I.e., we could adopt it as PS, with the expectation that by the time it gets published we will have built
that experience? Or does there even need to be a final decision about
the status at adoption time?

-Toke

_______________________________________________
babel mailing list
babel@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel
--000000000000d4e74505bf81d6be-- From nobody Fri Apr 9 04:32:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C982F3A1D80; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 04:32:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AOudaGjNKPd7; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 04:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 971083A1179; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 04:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 139BWSbj020678; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:32:28 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8167CF950E; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:32:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id 9IIw--d54PJJ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:32:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 97644F9508; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:32:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 13:32:26 +0200 Message-ID: <87mtu7ofqt.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Donald Eastlake Cc: Babel at IETF , babel-chairs In-Reply-To: References: <160321741182.20077.1775706618101177377@ietfa.amsl.com> <42028b97-c2ff-6a25-e8ac-c77129caac73@ens.fr> <87eeflm0do.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87mtu8zwk6.fsf@toke.dk> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Fri, 09 Apr 2021 13:32:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 60703B4C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60703B4C.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60703B4C.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-00.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 11:32:36 -0000 > If people think this is too complex, I don't think it's complex, I think that it might be difficult to integrate in an existing implementation of ICMP. Different ICMP implementations have different behaviours. A router vendor who wants to implement this draft will likely want to minimise the amount of changes that they need to make to their implementation of ICMP; if we constrain the behaviour too much, the amount of changes will likely increase, which in turn might hamper deployment of the protocol. I therefore agree with David that we should aim for the least constrained description that still ensures that PMTUd isn't broken. -- Juliusz From nobody Fri Apr 9 08:27:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 585923A24D8 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 08:27:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RSdYyDr2Kobh for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 08:27:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE01A3A24D7 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 08:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 139FROQx008849 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 17:27:24 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC26FE4F1 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 17:27:24 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id rJ41XQEAK9Ay for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 17:27:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 44E79FE4EE for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 17:27:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 17:27:21 +0200 Message-ID: <875z0vo4va.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: babel@ietf.org User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Fri, 09 Apr 2021 17:27:24 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 6070725C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 6070725C.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 6070725C.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: [babel] v4viav6: retractions X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 15:27:30 -0000 The current text of v4viav6 is only correct for finite metric updates. I need to add some wording for retractions. My current preference is to allow v4viav6 retractions, and treat them as equivalent to v4 retractions (since the next hop is not needed for retractions). The alternative is to say that retractions MUST be sent as v4, and that v4viav6 retractions MUST be silently ignored, SHOULD be silently ignored, or something. Is there any good reason why v4viav6 retractions should not be allowed? -- Juliusz From nobody Fri Apr 9 10:06:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietf.org Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 980FE3A27DD; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:05:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.27.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: Donald Eastlake , The IESG , babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, d3e3e3@gmail.com, draft-ietf-babel-information-model@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <161798795960.10475.8658599745172539788@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 10:05:59 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [babel] Document Action: 'Babel Information Model' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-babel-information-model-14.txt) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 17:06:00 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Babel Information Model' (draft-ietf-babel-information-model-14.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Babel routing protocol Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, John Scudder and Martin Vigoureux. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-information-model/ Technical Summary The Babel Information Model document provides structured data elements for a Babel implementation reporting its current state and may allow limited configuration of some such data elements. This information model can be used as a basis for creating data models under various data modeling regimes. Working Group Summary There was continuing active discussion and improvement to the draft for an extended after the initial Working Group Last Call so no consensus judgement was made for that Last call. The list of outstanding issues was updated and then presented and reviewed at WG meeting at a number of IETF meeting, resolving many issues. Based on the discussions and consensus on issue resolution shown on the mailing list and at WG meetings, after a brief call for objections at https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/babel/JLunyZA9YdXXVm7S3wxGklavcCY the draft was declared to have consensus. Document Quality The draft has been extensively reviewed by the community of interest and is of good quality. Personnel Document Shepherd: Donald Eastlake, 3rd Responsible Area Director: Martin Vigoureux From nobody Fri Apr 9 10:21:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA6953A2845 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:21:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hI2QuoejOzMK for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 665C73A2841 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 139HLhEl027594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 19:21:43 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/82085) with ESMTP id 139HLhAP022071 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 19:21:43 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC44C8840 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 19:21:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id WXw5w5dnBBKu for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 19:21:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D4E12C883D for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 19:21:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 19:21:41 +0200 Message-ID: <8735vznzkq.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: babel@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <161798795960.10475.8658599745172539788@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <161798795960.10475.8658599745172539788@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Fri, 09 Apr 2021 19:21:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Fri, 09 Apr 2021 19:21:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 60708D27.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 60708D27.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60708D27.001 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60708D27.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60708D27.001 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60708D27.000 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Document Action: 'Babel Information Model' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-babel-information-model-14.txt) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 17:21:54 -0000 Hurray! And congratulations to Barbara and Mahesh! From nobody Fri Apr 9 11:42:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietf.org Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 173F83A2A9C; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 11:42:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: babel@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.27.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: babel@ietf.org Message-ID: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 11:42:19 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 18:42:19 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Babel routing protocol WG of the IETF. Title : IPv4 routes with an IPv6 next-hop in the Babel routing protocol Author : Juliusz Chroboczek Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2021-04-09 Abstract: This document defines an extension to the Babel routing protocol that allows annoncing routes to an IPv4 prefix with an IPv6 next-hop, which makes it possible for IPv4 traffic to flow through interfaces that have not been assigned an IPv4 address. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Apr 9 11:49:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8F163A2AD8 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 11:49:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UV-90MEuewxP for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 11:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5A6D3A2AD6 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 11:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 139InUji018573 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 20:49:30 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6587C9688 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 20:49:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id 8ZyoG-WQCCY2 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 20:49:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 10BBDC9686 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 20:49:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 20:49:28 +0200 Message-ID: <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: babel@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Fri, 09 Apr 2021 20:49:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 6070A1BA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 6070A1BA.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 6070A1BA.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 18:49:37 -0000 > Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt I've made a full pass over the existing text, fixing typos and rewriting stuff. I've almost completely rewritten the Security Considerations section, which I'd be grateful for people to check. Section 3 is new, and contains the word "hamper", a fact that makes me immensely proud. I consider it as a starting point for discussion. It differs from Donald's suggestion in the following ways: - it merely states that a router MUST be able to send ICMPv4 messages (after explaining why), implementation techniques are worded as mere examples; - it doesn't include Donald's suggestions to (1) use a randomly drawn address or (2) use the Babel dummy address, as I think they deserve further discussion. Finally, I did not change the intended status (Experimental to Standards Track), as it is not my role to gauge whether there is sufficient consensus on this subject. -- Juliusz From nobody Fri Apr 9 12:31:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC4C43A00E2 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 12:31:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=att.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6PjDrnb_i3LL for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 12:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E9BE3A00E5 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 12:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049295.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049295.ppops.net-00191d01. 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([2601:647:5600:5020:ad15:dec1:ced5:e9c5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m4sm3256360pgu.4.2021.04.09.12.49.06 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 09 Apr 2021 12:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Mahesh Jethanandani Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 12:49:05 -0700 Message-Id: <820560CF-51E1-44E2-B80B-BC9C015C1AEE@gmail.com> References: Cc: Juliusz Chroboczek , babel@ietf.org In-Reply-To: To: "STARK, BARBARA H" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18B121) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Document Action: 'Babel Information Model' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-babel-information-model-14.txt) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 19:49:13 -0000 Ditto. Onto the YANG model.=20 > On Apr 9, 2021, at 12:31 PM, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >>=20 >> Hurray! And congratulations to Barbara and Mahesh! >=20 > Thx. =F0=9F=98=8A > _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel From nobody Fri Apr 9 15:34:06 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C4513A14B5 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 15:34:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wuHVWJ8_l_rn for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 15:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1035.google.com (mail-pj1-x1035.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB5673A14B3 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 15:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1035.google.com with SMTP id ha17so3582736pjb.2 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2021 15:33:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7+RmGUjPWuo1upyGTt2zYBy5p4p22dlKT/e87yyA6rg=; b=LWARXh+OYYYQZziwo88ciJLcmzfeFLbNKhlYVikniXSEpZHR6Wzoz3wUiaOIXhY06t dArUekueooNVg51Nr/BmjYCD2dyLWj3kl++qI3u0V1DTiHReTMU9/JTu7KZ/41UdAXdM el3HcqlKmGDro0bJzTZoItoSM3pB6RF5SYQk5qSvjiR4Cocwvco7rjBWuUVPCNwpQm3J qXixsjqPo03oBOiRL/w/WnZtajdiNtvQZWtYoDpqemyMlXoVxWGOP/uSM1jFkEwcy2VB awH719elMuZEgxGfHKGqFpWYpSp9dcZMSeUOWbEm7BhkdnE5gms7sP1zYDgHSbA9Ugep B7Ug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7+RmGUjPWuo1upyGTt2zYBy5p4p22dlKT/e87yyA6rg=; b=npwEL3r/yNpxdlfXijOByrzxJo8gqcAwaBbE8asuRyfLI6JKJRZw2HFg/cRkVQN61O f00f+3HmN7ZoGKwR0bkgALDK0gtutKDnRhn1IRRzkFvb8pyCU42qgvB4TQnZ8OKFcZJi hAVDkEjP0eMUzXOJTToHpTPIeh/buBNiKSi9mLpdwRFl5h9o7o/qeJ0guOA7UjyKhnW+ WPuiSLq4blKKOf33I5AJbavC0rMi+7utmQ97ahFkeW5qrbJ23U/c0sAgd0jfI26iS5VL lsVGy5x5yHa7fm+G+feQpHPuW8dl40it2O9pZiYznOp7KLu6EM5PVHom29vyt06hfYsH 4rbA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532I+NSzVTu12yr7jl5VqpoTssvtcaQJkOoYujmiJ5H42GRBfqQr xHAt2N253ApTM1fszRhcBCzTwZ6SihykTceuSkQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxn8cW6cutZ+GLvBz3RBiLbJwW2rQa7lfMiXVk5wNifNYqmeWC0oUiJHyzdh17xxqKUk8Ev0LxmqPfxYzPSey0= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:a616:: with SMTP id c22mr15629134pjq.94.1618007638137; Fri, 09 Apr 2021 15:33:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: David Schinazi Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 15:33:47 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: Babel at IETF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000083dd7005bf91c2af" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 22:34:04 -0000 --00000000000083dd7005bf91c2af Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I like the new text. My understanding was not hampered. I would personally prefer the "MUST be able to originate ICMPv4" to be a SHOULD, because you could conceivably set up your network in such a way that you never need to send ICMPv4. For example, if all your interfaces have the same MTU, you won't have any reason to send ICMP Packet Too Big. David On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 11:49 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt > > I've made a full pass over the existing text, fixing typos and rewriting > stuff. I've almost completely rewritten the Security Considerations > section, which I'd be grateful for people to check. > > Section 3 is new, and contains the word "hamper", a fact that makes me > immensely proud. I consider it as a starting point for discussion. It > differs from Donald's suggestion in the following ways: > > - it merely states that a router MUST be able to send ICMPv4 messages > (after explaining why), implementation techniques are worded as mere > examples; > > - it doesn't include Donald's suggestions to (1) use a randomly drawn > address or (2) use the Babel dummy address, as I think they deserve > further discussion. > > Finally, I did not change the intended status (Experimental to Standards > Track), as it is not my role to gauge whether there is sufficient > consensus on this subject. > > -- Juliusz > > _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel > --00000000000083dd7005bf91c2af Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I like the new text. My understanding was not hampered.

I would personally prefer the "MUST be able to or= iginate ICMPv4"
to be a SHOULD, because you could conceivabl= y set up your
network in such a way that you never need to send I= CMPv4.
For example, if all your interfaces have the same MTU, you= won't
have any reason to send ICMP Packet Too Big.

David

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 11:49 AM Juliusz Chrobocz= ek <jch@irif.fr> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt=

I've made a full pass over the existing text, fixing typos and rewritin= g
stuff.=C2=A0 I've almost completely rewritten the Security Consideratio= ns
section, which I'd be grateful for people to check.

Section 3 is new, and contains the word "hamper", a fact that mak= es me
immensely proud.=C2=A0 I consider it as a starting point for discussion.=C2= =A0 It
differs from Donald's suggestion in the following ways:

=C2=A0 - it merely states that a router MUST be able to send ICMPv4 message= s
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (after explaining why), implementation techniques are worded = as mere
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 examples;

=C2=A0 - it doesn't include Donald's suggestions to (1) use a rando= mly drawn
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 address or (2) use the Babel dummy address, as I think they d= eserve
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 further discussion.

Finally, I did not change the intended status (Experimental to Standards Track), as it is not my role to gauge whether there is sufficient
consensus on this subject.

-- Juliusz

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--00000000000083dd7005bf91c2af-- From nobody Fri Apr 9 17:49:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A9D03A19DC for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 17:49:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=toke.dk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z1Lh2I7kjUVt for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 17:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.toke.dk (mail.toke.dk [45.145.95.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C0413A19D9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 17:49:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Toke =?utf-8?Q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=toke.dk; s=20161023; t=1618015738; bh=fYyJYO+J3sqNYoU/7jDdAUTywJIwcPMfxxpVLRkph18=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=F/dO7Xi2FCICuu75hlxo/skRLWkXpiw7qWbzeN+g757PKz9Ow3bF//bXV4QcPLsp3 fAKJBRb9r752vCoPZde7gCe3pie1sTpnWclIclG8RQ+71H5rcRGlwH8D+oPikchCer Aad1zH3VXJUg6vNUn9In13y26JPq7Sucl04PWJoicK5/JrA+WtC7wEiGPtH7ZLzjVZ 8EpisN9WDBnW0jKm5JSDEq7VgLfTG11ixJeAm5PwOqBVUufU2iG6uQLr7dyMGlremx E2+Qt0Xox5o/PBUW6bNaNTwUov0A7Ea8J1hSFIrA1B1gcl35rrya0IyBLrQy+dRaca nGlJc66VFbN6w== To: Juliusz Chroboczek , babel@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <8735vznzkq.wl-jch@irif.fr> References: <161798795960.10475.8658599745172539788@ietfa.amsl.com> <8735vznzkq.wl-jch@irif.fr> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 02:48:57 +0200 X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Message-ID: <87k0pbt152.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Document Action: 'Babel Information Model' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-babel-information-model-14.txt) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 00:49:11 -0000 Juliusz Chroboczek writes: > Hurray! And congratulations to Barbara and Mahesh! 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 02:12:27 -0000 Hi Juliusz, On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 2:49 PM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > > Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt > > I've made a full pass over the existing text, fixing typos and rewriting > stuff. I've almost completely rewritten the Security Considerations > section, which I'd be grateful for people to check. Thanks for getting the draft updated and posted. I like the additional material in the Security Considerations section. > Section 3 is new, and contains the word "hamper", a fact that makes me > immensely proud. I consider it as a starting point for discussion. It > differs from Donald's suggestion in the following ways: Hamper is certainly a good word for the use you have made of it. Maybe your first sentence is a little too restrictive. Perhaps "that is primarily used to carry diagnostic and debugging information." rather than "that carries diagnostic and debugging information". There are a lot of ICMP types and subtypes: https://www.iana.org/assignments/icmp-parameters/icmp-parameters.xhtml > - it merely states that a router MUST be able to send ICMPv4 messages > (after explaining why), implementation techniques are worded as mere > examples; I don't have any problem with the above but, while path MTU discovery may be the strongest reason for ICMP, I do not think we should imply it is the only reason of significance. For example, there is also traceroute. RFC 1812 (Requirements for IP Version 4 Routers) says "ICMP Time Exceeded messages are required because the traceroute diagnostic tool depends on them." While it is frequently claimed that "ICMPs are dropped by the core routers of the Internet", I don't think that is generally true. I just did some traceroutes from my home computer to the Google DNS servers at at 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4. Sometimes the packets are sent for a few hops via routers in the core Internet that simply don't seem to produce "time expired" (actually hop count exhausted) ICMPs but occasionally ICMPs are produced and my home computer gets them back from every router along the path. And I always seem to get ICMPs back from the far end so those ICMPs are all being forwarded through the core Internet. Anyway, I think there should be some sort of reference in passing to "traceroute and other uses" or the like. > - it doesn't include Donald's suggestions to (1) use a randomly drawn > address or (2) use the Babel dummy address, as I think they deserve > further discussion. I can see questions about using a dummy address, since it implies multiple routers with the same address. But I really don't see any problem with a dynamically allocated IPv4 address (a la RFC 3927) as another example of a way to meet the requirement. Looking carefully at the new Section 3, the end of the third paragraph ("has not been assigned an IPv4 address") and the text near the beginning of the 4th paragraph ("that has been assigned an IPv4 address") sound a little contradictory. I suggest they be made more precise. So the 3rd paragraph could end with "... originate ICMPv4 packets even when the interface on which they will be transmitted has not been assigned an IPv4 address." and the text in the 4th paragraph could be "... if a router has another interface that has been assigned an IPv4 address ...". A bit later, I would prefer if "for example an address taken from a private address range [RFC1918] that is known to not be used in the local routing domain" were changed to something like "for example dynamically created address as described in [RFC3927] or an address taken from a private address range [RFC1918] that is known to not be used in the local routing domain". > Finally, I did not change the intended status (Experimental to Standards > Track), as it is not my role to gauge whether there is sufficient > consensus on this subject. While there haven't been a lot of comments on this, I think that so far they lean towards Proposed Standard. Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > -- Juliusz From nobody Fri Apr 9 20:10:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAE3F3A1E87 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 20:10:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VZh3PTmNxk-I for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 20:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x12b.google.com (mail-il1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF7513A1E86 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 20:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id w2so6291007ilj.12 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2021 20:10:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0NAy4xTEWivynHxf73PQPVelBOPdaYnw6Xgxq58D2As=; b=AFxPpIyAZox5Z+bcCcd4RsV/WpWyr5Obqhj/CAamaGwNQg/6nC69MVpiNs0OTuGuRI Q7tGmQQJeqoGirjSiISkyPPVuejauPLYuv17ODRWxqeTerB1AWria1jPm4ipRIYg1t/r O4BFyKoWVC9GNXakp1GpXgcL6gcNGhyiVTvCQKsLgH4PSeYqssFIt/tCAct+jtZPwOyN r0mDg3znZ8+kwu1ybJHgJXgnrM7BNhKYktJgABObO0KD6WzcJTngUkHPUCIGLUoEQeKg nA8IFy0ulDf9vG7DihNhXojqIxNrqQ/xoHdEkbhPF3uukgfwmtnGXdns8wsr4OqojUqd Cisg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0NAy4xTEWivynHxf73PQPVelBOPdaYnw6Xgxq58D2As=; b=oVVFR9dcs4OYToNQIdZiKJ+27IwyXH9vRHZUwYIdkSQ/L6IznCbEorLLwjPONes9or onXBuZUTgzz1DebirrjbBqBY83Mv8kVnv7kan56TzKXxsxu4Mp/QkiNemwYLT6aY9Wsc Ah1jhsThBCjlns7d2dinCaYwSzAKZjmfZa0Mcy8EwdSU3HiLbHMmS8DLJgmPjRJfVK3K kYP7bnDgUxI7rWdIHhJceFxwlqL3DqQbnqSqmEm1Lxanjm+oLg58INqNAo6GNM25sk5r V5AH/8DGxnC2zdw2xDBTHNREpGtyzhH9Qn34rEJDSJPY8Cimf5e5W1nApjYHCJSyCP3+ 38WA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5308x7a4cLg5aGVjiK1Z6il3b3fSg341xeMNm0zjKn0Wt49W7/tN V3iNJQd/BB0ZwUB0izmLzDIcHNPBf4Qw6Z+lPVo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyYQpinoPquVHAuAjr8DX9uJGvB/Hd4a7LeZ1USunrNgEwo86q9NvVhZm9Pbr34sMq1eZmld0F+0Pyb69gqzPU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:1989:: with SMTP id g9mr13844397ilf.40.1618024202433; Fri, 09 Apr 2021 20:10:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: From: Donald Eastlake Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 23:09:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: David Schinazi Cc: Juliusz Chroboczek , Babel at IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 03:10:09 -0000 Hi David, On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 6:34 PM David Schinazi wrote: > > I like the new text. My understanding was not hampered. > > I would personally prefer the "MUST be able to originate ICMPv4" > to be a SHOULD, because you could conceivably set up your > network in such a way that you never need to send ICMPv4. > For example, if all your interfaces have the same MTU, you won't > have any reason to send ICMP Packet Too Big. I think "MUST be able" is the right thing. Of course there is no problem with disabling ICMPs or any particular type(s) of ICMPs if you like. But really, by default, traceroute should work. If some Babel router is tossing packets, you should be able to get back some indication of that with a code giving the reason. Etc. Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > David > > On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 11:49 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: >> >> > Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt >> >> I've made a full pass over the existing text, fixing typos and rewriting >> stuff. I've almost completely rewritten the Security Considerations >> section, which I'd be grateful for people to check. >> >> Section 3 is new, and contains the word "hamper", a fact that makes me >> immensely proud. I consider it as a starting point for discussion. It >> differs from Donald's suggestion in the following ways: >> >> - it merely states that a router MUST be able to send ICMPv4 messages >> (after explaining why), implementation techniques are worded as mere >> examples; >> >> - it doesn't include Donald's suggestions to (1) use a randomly drawn >> address or (2) use the Babel dummy address, as I think they deserve >> further discussion. >> >> Finally, I did not change the intended status (Experimental to Standards >> Track), as it is not my role to gauge whether there is sufficient >> consensus on this subject. >> >> -- Juliusz >> >> _______________________________________________ >> babel mailing list >> babel@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel > > _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel From nobody Sat Apr 10 04:53:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12A903A309E for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 04:53:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O9JsJggBke-3 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 04:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D05A13A309D for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 04:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13ABrMPU027190; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:53:22 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C45CF2B8; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:53:22 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id 3QsBxbvj1EZT; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:53:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D19BECF2B6; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:53:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:53:18 +0200 Message-ID: <874kge1hld.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Donald Eastlake Cc: Babel at IETF In-Reply-To: References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:53:22 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 607191B2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 607191B2.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 607191B2.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 11:53:30 -0000 Thanks for your review, Donald. > Maybe your first sentence is a little too restrictive. Perhaps "that > is primarily used to carry diagnostic and debugging information." > rather than "that carries diagnostic and debugging information". Right. > I don't have any problem with the above but, while path MTU discovery > may be the strongest reason for ICMP, I do not think we should imply > it is the only reason of significance. [...] > Anyway, I think there should be some sort of reference in passing to > "traceroute and other uses" or the like. You're right, I'll think about how to formulate it. The point I'm trying to make is that while it might be okay for this extension to break diagnostic tools (presumably, it is preferable to partially break traceroute due to this extension rather than breaking it completely by using v4-in-v6 tunnelling), it is not okay to break higher-layer protocols that rely on ICMP. (I'm also trying to hint at the fact that I consider it a dubious design for higher-layer protocols to rely on ICMP, but that's not the main point here.) > I can see questions about using a dummy address, since it implies > multiple routers with the same address. But I really don't see any > problem with a dynamically allocated IPv4 address (a la RFC 3927) as > another example of a way to meet the requirement. I need some time to think it over. On the one hand, 3927 is pretty clear that link-local addresses are for communication on the local link. On the other hand, using 169.254/16 as the source address is no different from using fe80::/64 as the source address, which is what happens when an unnumbered IPv6 router needs to send an ICMPv6 packet. Quoting Section 2.7: An IPv4 packet whose source and/or destination address is in the 169.254/16 prefix MUST NOT be sent to any router for forwarding, and any network device receiving such a packet MUST NOT forward it, regardless of the TTL in the IPv4 header. Granted, this requirement does not apply to ICMPv4, but it still makes me nervous. What if a router decides to summarily drop all packets with a source address in 169.254/16? > Looking carefully at the new Section 3, the end of the third paragraph > ("has not been assigned an IPv4 address") and the text near the > beginning of the 4th paragraph ("that has been assigned an IPv4 > address") sound a little contradictory. I suggest they be made more > precise. Agreed. >> Finally, I did not change the intended status (Experimental to Standards >> Track), as it is not my role to gauge whether there is sufficient >> consensus on this subject. > While there haven't been a lot of comments on this, I think that so > far they lean towards Proposed Standard. I'm fine with it either way, but I'll want one of the chairs to send me a clear order that I can refer to. -- Juliusz From nobody Sat Apr 10 18:35:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E10B73A23AD for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 18:35:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BLoA8UNS9IoY for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 18:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x12a.google.com (mail-il1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A32B23A23AB for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 18:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id i22so3282836ila.11 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 18:35:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=opOpdn/ALhw07sg8CYC2CreO6iLXYo7rgu0yL6zA9Q4=; b=a4/pD/xq7l1uZy4+pyDfd3oMR+vWELjTLMWCD7OXWLDREssd7LcxvhtqMfTZWgfqcy rVQ1r4mzgGCVjlRuWmg+L6J73UhTnDYw8hMHa6cdH85eMnY2jzftYAnVHBwbOd5EVF9w Eis87fXV6HZ8M8QEdcEA1NNR3Am1QoM6Q+eE72+OlIbHOoiBjf4TiqVoNXLH2a+WTqBU hO5SmyVJ9zWZaHk/ApaA/fi+TS3bX/ZA1bpylddwTvQ9gPwYDD726Uq4k+279P0e+Sm4 JTdAh4+iH5NpJagf/s24mIuCl8zv943qi9465IyBW1u84eIDOi5bevbtDcuPh3iw5DUU b/sw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=opOpdn/ALhw07sg8CYC2CreO6iLXYo7rgu0yL6zA9Q4=; b=DTWzyhZ2AhMSRzPn2g2/IVxkIp+qvj0OZU51TE8bhdD85PDmiH3HFKPhgiM4FN95xU RStMdMfiUTtgHSmKzt+pmX9rFo6ML7t/ZLj8ojUpjjYGjsMl+G4Xae2HUuW86tXhOkSx K5B49OoUD8IY/+lCaNaQWOeNespxIcezaEvTJBElv9/Yx6dSaxJiLZpV6CBtp6y4Jplc DLeFzExJsRH5HvdRxIeaV85Q7bLnbL+Wf0UZaLk7xJT3QmMIcbb2f5V1JJTTmWGSv46b Xq6UTqIQwi0y35xd9qNh114RlcItLRlcqE9NIz/8LkC159AKgFF82Hp3wz1TPE0IcF6C 7Qgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532hN5D4w32Qbro7FGdysdSolK1hauII52M/BBCA07iLTngSUzEs dTQwGw8H5cgmbwSI9ORjukhLZjBUlar95TkXHcQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy8r1K/aVugqTaqfH79X+zZS/FueEZ9M42AJ7rnnjG4pTDDT9VknOwx1/lvx56/Sn6wmPA/DoPQfpGC0AoP67w= X-Received: by 2002:a92:1a12:: with SMTP id a18mr6873984ila.168.1618104950866; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 18:35:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> <874kge1hld.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <874kge1hld.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 21:35:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: Babel at IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 01:35:58 -0000 Hi Juliusz, We seem to generally be in agreement. See below. On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 7:53 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > Thanks for your review, Donald. > > > Maybe your first sentence is a little too restrictive. Perhaps "that > > is primarily used to carry diagnostic and debugging information." > > rather than "that carries diagnostic and debugging information". > > Right. > > > I don't have any problem with the above but, while path MTU discovery > > may be the strongest reason for ICMP, I do not think we should imply > > it is the only reason of significance. > > [...] > > > Anyway, I think there should be some sort of reference in passing to > > "traceroute and other uses" or the like. > > You're right, I'll think about how to formulate it. The point I'm trying > to make is that while it might be okay for this extension to break > diagnostic tools (presumably, it is preferable to partially break > traceroute due to this extension rather than breaking it completely by > using v4-in-v6 tunnelling), it is not okay to break higher-layer protocols > that rely on ICMP. (I'm also trying to hint at the fact that I consider > it a dubious design for higher-layer protocols to rely on ICMP, but that's > not the main point here.) While traceroute is most useful if all the routers along the path have unique IPv4 addresses, it still provides useful information if that is not true. > > I can see questions about using a dummy address, since it implies > > multiple routers with the same address. But I really don't see any > > problem with a dynamically allocated IPv4 address (a la RFC 3927) as > > another example of a way to meet the requirement. > > I need some time to think it over. On the one hand, 3927 is pretty clear > that link-local addresses are for communication on the local link. On the > other hand, using 169.254/16 as the source address is no different from > using fe80::/64 as the source address, which is what happens when an > unnumbered IPv6 router needs to send an ICMPv6 packet. > > Quoting Section 2.7: > > An IPv4 packet whose source and/or destination address is in the > 169.254/16 prefix MUST NOT be sent to any router for forwarding, and > any network device receiving such a packet MUST NOT forward it, > regardless of the TTL in the IPv4 header. > > Granted, this requirement does not apply to ICMPv4, but it still makes me > nervous. What if a router decides to summarily drop all packets with > a source address in 169.254/16? That is a point against using [RFC3927] addresses. But I think the idea of providing a variety of alternatives for implementers is good. So maybe if we don't give [RFC3927] addresses as an alternative, a Babel dummy address should be assigned and available as another alternative. When such an address is assigned from the 192.0.0.0/24 block, you get to explicitly specify whether it can be used as a source address or not, etc. See https://www.iana.org/assignments/iana-ipv4-special-registry/iana-ipv4-special-registry.xhtml. > > Looking carefully at the new Section 3, the end of the third paragraph > > ("has not been assigned an IPv4 address") and the text near the > > beginning of the 4th paragraph ("that has been assigned an IPv4 > > address") sound a little contradictory. I suggest they be made more > > precise. > > Agreed. > > >> Finally, I did not change the intended status (Experimental to Standards > >> Track), as it is not my role to gauge whether there is sufficient > >> consensus on this subject. > > > While there haven't been a lot of comments on this, I think that so > > far they lean towards Proposed Standard. > > I'm fine with it either way, but I'll want one of the chairs to send me > a clear order that I can refer to. OK. I'll wait a couple of days and thenell you my judgement... Thanks, Donald ============================= Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > -- Juliusz From nobody Sun Apr 11 05:26:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6E33A044A for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 05:26:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 45z7tC13OTvj for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 05:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 419B93A040F for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 05:26:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13BCPvk9014542; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:25:57 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21D52D6850; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:25:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id gHXZZRT2Ztsf; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:25:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7BFA2D684D; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:25:54 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:25:54 +0200 Message-ID: <8735vx9fe5.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Donald Eastlake Cc: Babel at IETF In-Reply-To: References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> <874kge1hld.wl-jch@irif.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:25:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 6072EAD5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 6072EAD5.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 6072EAD5.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 12:26:09 -0000 > We seem to generally be in agreement. Yes, it's about finding the right formulation. From nobody Mon Apr 12 01:38:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E261A3A1281; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 01:38:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id luM5-l8lrxxC; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 01:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr20117.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.2.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30CB33A127D; 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Mon, 12 Apr 2021 08:38:17 +0000 To: last-call@ietf.org References: <161788580040.14525.8607775335520195175@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: babel-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-babel-yang-model@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org From: tom petch Message-ID: <607406F2.70500@btconnect.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 09:38:10 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 In-Reply-To: <161788580040.14525.8607775335520195175@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [86.155.147.182] X-ClientProxiedBy: LO4P123CA0340.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:18c::21) To VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:800:18b::8) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [192.168.1.65] (86.155.147.182) by LO4P123CA0340.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:18c::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.20.4020.22 via Frontend Transport; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 08:38:32 -0000 This I-D introduces a new and unnecessary YANG prefix in defiance of BCP216 s.4.2. It imports ietf-yang-types, perhaps the most widely imported module in the world, and RFC6991, where that module is specified, defines the proper prefix as 'yang'. This I-D invents a different one. Technically, YANG can cope with this but that does not make it a sensible thing to do. Tom Petch On 08/04/2021 13:43, The IESG wrote: > > The IESG has received a request from the Babel routing protocol WG (babel) to > consider the following document: - 'YANG Data Model for Babel' > as Proposed Standard > > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final > comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the > last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2021-04-22. Exceptionally, comments may > be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning > of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > > Abstract > > > This document defines a data model for the Babel routing protocol. > The data model is defined using the YANG data modeling language. > > > > > > The file can be obtained via > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-yang-model/ > > > > No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > . > From nobody Mon Apr 12 07:53:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietf.org Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB71C3A211C; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 07:52:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ron Bonica via Datatracker To: Cc: babel@ietf.org, draft-ietf-babel-yang-model.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.27.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <161823917070.22727.11691181542370186020@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Ron Bonica Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 07:52:50 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [babel] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-babel-yang-model-09 X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 14:52:51 -0000 Reviewer: Ron Bonica Review result: Ready I have reviewed the draft for content, but assume that it has also been reviewed by YANG Doctors. From nobody Mon Apr 12 20:23:23 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16C683A10DB for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 20:23:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.847 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AoKhSZ_fxWJH for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 20:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x130.google.com (mail-il1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81CEA3A10D7 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 20:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x130.google.com with SMTP id 7so11263998ilz.0 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 20:23:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=D8YoDNkY2OfWoQtK1/Jng0RwK4mytOLkHsEzo1IWZyA=; b=nwOigyG87KodpMhtNcf1nSsscAPkwoeLnXIb6CzH24PT5Fqr+vzzOxMUbNMoPcPzfm qpYnATngsoRDfGXTOZl+YczSpx2lB+OFtgjDHB/SwHMlOecavxgPXd0vZk7GpISXzlgN QmJNHM09EqpcCmblUN6QXaE4YFYvnHya2v8UJ+F5pn5mhpi6g9BCPXKMu4aJ5d4Y1ods WSWGDVwNKD/G91D/8jIZ6Fv9la9xFtePB5WCla+B+iXbBy42Yuzwn1TwCYtImeXeuZY/ RzUf/felxfylDF2UvasePccZF1UlvStT+cMVkshIzpi95bMtPF/cmXlSBD/OBXBYtuS2 mfxA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=D8YoDNkY2OfWoQtK1/Jng0RwK4mytOLkHsEzo1IWZyA=; b=FUeBRWA22trA1y8vvxbQc6xxv/qcxbz3q5GZNxZ/rp7IsTJNto/mNxEdbi43PsmMiN fW02QJmXt1C/lQScIxByWP898Hmr/akWkxsX2HGGHbS2MXQoEo4uP9lh6UaEnKtjBMqE mW5NrQlVsSMCwlL0HFY0yfdOams1UfGKhqb1CGcrf1C4U/CMuJ8kNnJ1lc96gP66YeUS gNaQ1AjhKFLQ6tiV/rLXCtxNx+K2EJDoqQMMNjrUbuNDL+D9D0mpp0y3ZSJv2u+c2YLA JqpTMxLgmrG500H6u/2zUH7tH0+IaZN8/JLXYrxidxEzFN1O/o2VbVpy+7JnivDJTCp3 fjsw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532KtA9pA8jkF4K2RxvAwrtZs1rWuzox1Qr0GMQn7kh9VqAh0v/S Qj4aY8+nO9HPm+WfGlItgXJh9Gz9RrWBJKaNDOw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwvM9k2No97tPo3v8VCqznySzCl6dB83+mDQwGWeHS2mkihB+LDNKAhA/pTmzidNic3+t4Zr9gAunOilq4QRVY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:12c9:: with SMTP id i9mr26458851ilm.276.1618284195827; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 20:23:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> <874kge1hld.wl-jch@irif.fr> <8735vx9fe5.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <8735vx9fe5.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:23:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: Babel at IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 03:23:22 -0000 Hi Juliusz, On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 8:25 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > We seem to generally be in agreement. > > Yes, it's about finding the right formulation. Well, I think your writing is better than mine. I've reviewed the emails and, based thereon, I direct you, as you requested, to change the draft to target "Proposed Standard". Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com From nobody Tue Apr 13 06:11:45 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F6033A15F8 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 06:11:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TH2JiZWXJKU3 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 06:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8A5C3A15F5 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 06:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13DDBZj4009411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:11:36 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/82085) with ESMTP id 13DDBZrH006338; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:11:35 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45AA310E56E; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:11:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id bkxLJanwpbxn; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:11:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6847710E562; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:11:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:11:32 +0200 Message-ID: <87mtu2qqgr.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Donald Eastlake Cc: Babel at IETF In-Reply-To: References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:11:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:11:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 60759887.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 60759887.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60759887.000 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60759887.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60759887.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60759887.000 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 13:11:44 -0000 > I can see questions about using a dummy address, since it implies > multiple routers with the same address. But I really don't see any > problem with a dynamically allocated IPv4 address (a la RFC 3927) as > another example of a way to meet the requirement. Ok, let's see if I read the group right. 1. David suggests that I mention 192.168.0.8, the dummy address assigned for 4rd (RFC 7600). 2. Donald wants me to suggest dynamic allocation from the RFC 3927 range. Concerning 1, the current draft explicitly uses the term "dummy address", which is a nod in David's direction. On the other hand, I'm a little reluctant to mention RFC 7600 explicitly, since I'd rather we avoid being associated with packet translation techniques. Yuck. Concerning 2, I'm going to add a mention of dynamically drawn addresses, but I'm going to avoid mentioning 3927 explicitly, since I'm not sure that using 3927 addresses outside of the local link is legit. Additionally, doing otherwise might imply that the conflict detection and defense mechanisms in that document are applicable (or desirable) in our context. Ok? If not, yell! -- Juliusz From nobody Tue Apr 13 08:02:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietf.org Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43AC83A1A82; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 08:02:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: babel@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.27.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: babel@ietf.org Message-ID: <161832613923.12447.5987645986878653286@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 08:02:19 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-02.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:02:19 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Babel routing protocol WG of the IETF. Title : IPv4 routes with an IPv6 next-hop in the Babel routing protocol Author : Juliusz Chroboczek Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-02.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2021-04-13 Abstract: This document defines an extension to the Babel routing protocol that allows annoncing routes to an IPv4 prefix with an IPv6 next-hop, which makes it possible for IPv4 traffic to flow through interfaces that have not been assigned an IPv4 address. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Apr 13 08:06:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F8FC3A1AA5 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 08:06:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XN-0k4GgGtry for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 08:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F1263A1A9E for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 08:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13DF6Co3006235 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 17:06:12 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF2151107FF for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 17:06:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id Xj9tapXIR252 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 17:06:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42E3E1107FD for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 17:06:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 17:06:11 +0200 Message-ID: <87fszuql5o.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: babel@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <161832613923.12447.5987645986878653286@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <161832613923.12447.5987645986878653286@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Tue, 13 Apr 2021 17:06:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 6075B364.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 6075B364.004 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 6075B364.004 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-02.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:06:19 -0000 > Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-02.txt Inserted more text about ways of chosing IPv4 addresses, as described in my previous message. I'm not too happy with the new text, which I feel is somewhat overloaded, so if someone good at writing wants to try their hand at it, I'd be grateful. Expanded acknowledgments. Please let me know if you feel you've been unfairly omitted. Intended status is now Standards Track. I do have some misgivings, but let's be bold. -- Juliusz From nobody Tue Apr 13 10:54:18 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30363A20D5 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 10:54:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3YfE-kNbItuk for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 10:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x631.google.com (mail-pl1-x631.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::631]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A2B73A0D55 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 10:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x631.google.com with SMTP id e2so4344435plh.8 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 10:54:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=MTDbvQKLlb1qqujsM6Z6vfRm2hiLSErVc6t4GURF2Dc=; b=sqpdJbjOnu4LyeqLxp4r0g272mpeHOluaoAFA5OFoeW5FDG1pDH8hPn4ThXA+OCH9u L2DQQcVg7QNGBc10CrOgW+rzT1TaZDr7FGBCjdRJ3qydB9t9MNszEE8svxbBPOjNeevE a0dkad5RE+QwcUA8k3AqcymUJAZRAMBA9HsiyE8id//j60Fn25PK3OuG0IaY1twd7SG9 YhZMn8MhlC7I0TRelkmUa0QAKa1Hi+cSn0h3TKTz2GmjRNo8sOcMgure74ZdD3yc/F++ JFenQV5Q/ob7zfLmay32i4I8fYnIURd8HPZyhw4/3EuRiC1jEFLDJu3qV0mKB6kK6ps9 vyIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MTDbvQKLlb1qqujsM6Z6vfRm2hiLSErVc6t4GURF2Dc=; b=MwGCvEZUKovE1mWnW/znmuU5qBrH7oJh+M+0kIpKC54Ohn91HCX32MajjgskLHW5VF M26zUyOy9YtIg/WlwG5ZRIlJfmhD9nBDVjUVYcTbB8pO5km1JLc9DiHERh95w2wPFevh /C/VLccxZrD16HYS3Ui4IVqhY2mfsJitNQVtYNx2Jc//N+5MTBySLtgWNnmzysNk30kk br7QIlbHC2wQcy0jMNEn3p2gwpy4uneSvo0guPA/qOiEWhm8RetIBPNfPC8GbgeM/adJ mSzw7AT02m5PSP3kDS5OiPC+jAtkwulXXOoR6tj7GhEM0tSklNy8j26PDP7B9mG6E8AR VFoA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ZN5mor/aE92lJmwOhSvWaa1R3jZ8LWa/qJAADLRQiG6CnaHPg hfk1veRZCmPY2EAhVW7tnpB74GZJ6qs1O9/pCaE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwY6+rN2FKaAiycLoQOyQJIdWAIVfqS2Jd0bgDf8YudYPFCL++Z79yhe/dsbzsQ+xNIusSJeQBDLJYek6lgDNI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b20e:b029:eb:47e3:5977 with SMTP id t14-20020a170902b20eb02900eb47e35977mr403991plr.67.1618336450830; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 10:54:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87mtu2qqgr.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <87mtu2qqgr.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: David Schinazi Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 10:53:59 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: Donald Eastlake , Babel at IETF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004764cb05bfde5185" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 17:54:17 -0000 --0000000000004764cb05bfde5185 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'm OK with RFC 3927 and 7600 not being mentioned. David On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 6:11 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > I can see questions about using a dummy address, since it implies > > multiple routers with the same address. But I really don't see any > > problem with a dynamically allocated IPv4 address (a la RFC 3927) as > > another example of a way to meet the requirement. > > Ok, let's see if I read the group right. > > 1. David suggests that I mention 192.168.0.8, the dummy address assigned > for 4rd (RFC 7600). > > 2. Donald wants me to suggest dynamic allocation from the RFC 3927 range. > > Concerning 1, the current draft explicitly uses the term "dummy address", > which is a nod in David's direction. On the other hand, I'm a little > reluctant to mention RFC 7600 explicitly, since I'd rather we avoid being > associated with packet translation techniques. Yuck. > > Concerning 2, I'm going to add a mention of dynamically drawn addresses, > but I'm going to avoid mentioning 3927 explicitly, since I'm not sure that > using 3927 addresses outside of the local link is legit. Additionally, > doing otherwise might imply that the conflict detection and defense > mechanisms in that document are applicable (or desirable) in our context. > > Ok? If not, yell! > > -- Juliusz > > > _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel > --0000000000004764cb05bfde5185 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm OK with RFC 3927 and 7600 not being mentioned.
David

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 6:11 AM Juliusz Chrobocz= ek <jch@irif.fr> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">> I can see questions a= bout using a dummy address, since it implies
> multiple routers with the same address. But I really don't see any=
> problem with a dynamically allocated IPv4 address (a la RFC 3927) as > another example of a way to meet the requirement.

Ok, let's see if I read the group right.

1. David suggests that I mention 192.168.0.8, the dummy address assigned =C2=A0 =C2=A0for 4rd (RFC 7600).

2. Donald wants me to suggest dynamic allocation from the RFC 3927 range.
Concerning 1, the current draft explicitly uses the term "dummy addres= s",
which is a nod in David's direction.=C2=A0 On the other hand, I'm a= little
reluctant to mention RFC 7600 explicitly, since I'd rather we avoid bei= ng
associated with packet translation techniques.=C2=A0 Yuck.

Concerning 2, I'm going to add a mention of dynamically drawn addresses= ,
but I'm going to avoid mentioning 3927 explicitly, since I'm not su= re that
using 3927 addresses outside of the local link is legit.=C2=A0 Additionally= ,
doing otherwise might imply that the conflict detection and defense
mechanisms in that document are applicable (or desirable) in our context.
Ok?=C2=A0 If not, yell!

-- Juliusz


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--0000000000004764cb05bfde5185-- From nobody Tue Apr 13 11:52:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 978CA3A2322 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 11:52:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8_W8r4j-eY0w for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 11:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1031.google.com (mail-pj1-x1031.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1031]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0205A3A2320 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 11:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1031.google.com with SMTP id t23so8945287pjy.3 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 11:52:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=IWMSoVJdUJu8ILzkV3YjcPV9FvilAjKEO6wmTh5ebAY=; b=MZNsizZaSO5iCn2P/2pmg1bpI/BtCtawdwr4aA3jLqWMEbO+JsB+2T33DLuOn7p3nL 0Vjs5NT0mZ0gArAI/rxkMZYYnqagPWjH+r0/EAMtKOi9zBmTCKxuIKb5gwNAHeAt9xAi DzOBY9zIukke7eywtwZ4QaL08ZEX0VhRVWOxYF6Pj4KlC/81onu34sgvEAPmcf09g417 yCpoLn6rBwO7e5Ha8R1GiBKBCrmUewVks6eMKg0Y34yJyc0RVHf9qSeWduVCDLekrzrE KAialGhyYgWOACeJWEKXr5X0wRH6a8vdDAzdIeVYXMFKDUkR49Wswyb/Xu0mvNF3MTA5 vE1A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IWMSoVJdUJu8ILzkV3YjcPV9FvilAjKEO6wmTh5ebAY=; b=nd6L9ijv1ke5AnxrUpPbtgl1WZZe2dajAkhXsSm7lEy+Ta03GQYaDaqrUfIy1vq12l BMWGFiPzT35d/dUHLussN9VmOXgUyD/9liNRyAjNUxk7Jx5fh06VgiIbx0OFTCMEewgo 2vW4S7+wWHNHCgBeech3XwBxU6PiCozbQQyogpFpFmLdxq7x/vv5gZig/QuL+FzH3dYl 26F67Dwur6qnIwSUUxjm6/zR1i2Aw4uc1Dkyh4tA/2ZDcMgkNLtIOnLvQRbjsd6fCoN7 PH9YNc069RsD+XaYTuJYnQUYHxkN15NAGrcZ/w6p9oaoDyBR+ersxzeguTG72+aDaKv6 QJCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530zBDDpvFp//0ERMbfG+HCKe7umpXlWjIr417L3SfVZVQS7eDMd Hx+g9KYsBk75d2KvjYZlIqaMf/8GlZ4lRZJqrVMl003C X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwecLxirkaI0ScRZIe5kX3B0FkRc0bPCun3PgsVsYwS6GwykbOV6b4phkpg4BFsav43qlezOkd1ThraJ26ktDM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:1b42:: with SMTP id nv2mr1502489pjb.190.1618339949803; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 11:52:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161832613923.12447.5987645986878653286@ietfa.amsl.com> <87fszuql5o.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <87fszuql5o.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: David Schinazi Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 11:52:18 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: Babel at IETF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d57d1605bfdf2144" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-02.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 18:52:36 -0000 --000000000000d57d1605bfdf2144 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I like the new text. Ship it! David On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 8:06 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-02.txt > > Inserted more text about ways of chosing IPv4 addresses, as described in > my previous message. I'm not too happy with the new text, which I feel is > somewhat overloaded, so if someone good at writing wants to try their hand > at it, I'd be grateful. > > Expanded acknowledgments. Please let me know if you feel you've been > unfairly omitted. > > Intended status is now Standards Track. I do have some misgivings, but > let's be bold. > > -- Juliusz > > _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel > --000000000000d57d1605bfdf2144 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I like the new text. Ship it!

David=

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 8:06 AM Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Filename=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-02.txt

Inserted more text about ways of chosing IPv4 addresses, as described in my previous message.=C2=A0 I'm not too happy with the new text, which I= feel is
somewhat overloaded, so if someone good at writing wants to try their hand<= br> at it, I'd be grateful.

Expanded acknowledgments.=C2=A0 Please let me know if you feel you've b= een
unfairly omitted.

Intended status is now Standards Track.=C2=A0 I do have some misgivings, bu= t
let's be bold.

-- Juliusz

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babel mailing list
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--000000000000d57d1605bfdf2144-- From nobody Tue Apr 13 12:42:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0574F3A24C0 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:42:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fkM3mKMC5fl3 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x12b.google.com (mail-il1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 380D13A24CB for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id l19so11207506ilk.13 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:42:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9/5tfAz/QBxenn+A5ST5lNyzJ1K5HACXLB5cOvzI3U4=; b=hEYFW+kMgZitQOPgLHN4bOJsv9u0yAEEp1DqNu+yT8u+JZN9QY3vkytAbI/eQid1Vx HiQpDRupdpkVJPA7oJAghMByPZY/NJznx46E/Z65hzdRh8qTIRSiHHv2OPfA4AMOtBN1 jLxkIlVvAaOgPRzeKC/lQH6hzJkaOCWLXzMb7zxHz4auI57VYDk8OYoyWs44CzvoagX9 4e1qw6TCsqQ1Z2CxAwTMEBbF0iwrJ6ozLQZ+CY1zRsjbArG2wm+XbnLdVBueOkKKUkt6 k99ZqFNzqNiMyKR9dkFY8ZiHvEGbCZWe8+iof7+z65G26qlLL//j78zrJYdWj4FxAA/1 qROA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9/5tfAz/QBxenn+A5ST5lNyzJ1K5HACXLB5cOvzI3U4=; b=BYUnO4AcYY5rLhpNn8ZFGRp6CvL3YSUSpK33mMAtu19YqZQxvmhVZoinDRUpiPilc6 yob6BjjWH7+sC5bJlSk1Pmjqu/LvTZa3fiJTvdR2t77840LnTJyfJ4O3gbCD3D7oDQ7N fKc5zPFbiIsykS3bLCQmHkdE7/eZEt6kL/gB/CoxcT+5J9Cr/LGpYUS2kydumUds7dC6 JwApFcwsFFhgYDmuyujCm69KlDt6eqvdswUGxl/dKXvS+zvd07+O42UOjavCraRkQKsS vQv9TUxLsxMWtcffXvs4frgEgr10vPQjtmvKMCxr9MfIR32yWSmrDnO9eBoQ2q6HnTHA uIqg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530AA1uTscegdbV6iSpQ/qWbLvJwYyWmFzItM3bW4y6cmuyLx/WP f8tWm4Qrq2Ip3aaog9Zi3ArmmcUWfwZbAXCE/YE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzd06DZKZExQJb6gkpLIAc3S2yFFC7WCLv8CtzyvwFjBqgsWw7f25qHqHrQ1dhI7E/3pgtupxtUs9rgsBY1oN4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:16cf:: with SMTP id 15mr7576966ilx.199.1618342957789; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:42:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87mtu2qqgr.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <87mtu2qqgr.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:42:26 -0400 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: Babel at IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:42:45 -0000 Just speaking as a wg member: Hi Juliusz, I believe an important part of "engineering" is assessing the balance of factors in favor of or against various choices. Simplicity is a good thing so it would be nice if IPv4-less Babel routers did one simple thing for a source address. On the other hand, minimizing restrictions on implementers and being able to adapt to different conditions is good. In this case, I think the balance is towards the second point and alternatives should be provided. On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 9:11 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > > I can see questions about using a dummy address, since it implies > > multiple routers with the same address. But I really don't see any > > problem with a dynamically allocated IPv4 address (a la RFC 3927) as > > another example of a way to meet the requirement. > > Ok, let's see if I read the group right. > > 1. David suggests that I mention 192.168.0.8, the dummy address assigned > for 4rd (RFC 7600). A "dummy" address is a reasonable alternative. I think the source IP address in an ICMP serves two functions. One is to make the packet "legal" so it wouldn't be thrown away as malformed or malicious. The other is to provide information that helps to identify the source for management/debugging/whatever purposes. A "dummy" address is not going to provide much information but if an implementer is going to follow that path, it might as well be a Babel specific dummy address. The existing "dummy" IPv4 address seems to have to do with IPv4 ICMP messages created by converting ICMPv6 messages [RFC7600]. Possibly there could be a network in which both could be generated as a source address and with a separate Babel dummy address, you at least have one bit of specificity. > 2. Donald wants me to suggest dynamic allocation from the RFC 3927 range. Well, I did want that option but your quotes from RFC 3927 convinced me that the risk of packets with such a "link local" source address being discarded by routers was too high so I no longer support that. > Concerning 1, the current draft explicitly uses the term "dummy address", > which is a nod in David's direction. On the other hand, I'm a little > reluctant to mention RFC 7600 explicitly, since I'd rather we avoid being > associated with packet translation techniques. Yuck. Another reason to go with a Babel dummy address. > Concerning 2, I'm going to add a mention of dynamically drawn addresses, > but I'm going to avoid mentioning 3927 explicitly, since I'm not sure that > using 3927 addresses outside of the local link is legit. Additionally, > doing otherwise might imply that the conflict detection and defense > mechanisms in that document are applicable (or desirable) in our context. Sounds reasonable. Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > Ok? If not, yell! > > -- Juliusz From nobody Tue Apr 13 14:43:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415283A1115 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 14:43:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dAOB0TU5F77T for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 14:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd33.google.com (mail-io1-xd33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66C403A110C for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 14:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd33.google.com with SMTP id e186so18619150iof.7 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 14:43:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WgvdO6OA4QJTO5XPOnk4F7SOeFGoD5eJyTmmA+0B4fk=; b=NhxJHjrEGZskQGXChgJQ39R9DEuHIHZVV4yuUfX7BddFJQT6jUvRX7Curwgj1q9nst nhelKrhcM5QXxG+rOIp8++3dXSuXWFCoud93Jv9ZjeMBnnUeGs8kXyBApOUYDLxpJjLL t8Qta+LJcmtzRuVV4ytNMapUdGp+eQzstAf1UhPRICnSlW3bPlaW7ZKburOn8a62ErqB e941T3twvoarXxiKEbw2j6PgJ0T0iKozaYvDH85vTI/l5iqFoWvS2noJK+QcCGTgv6DI I17Hap7ihwrUEqYtGNCJWdZdzb4pdCagdET1u/nFUaZiT/z1RKgdZ3hgTX7ZoXg8T/3i FNrQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WgvdO6OA4QJTO5XPOnk4F7SOeFGoD5eJyTmmA+0B4fk=; b=F3aEkUpcARI1Y7Q7PdcYfV5u1ud7jq00obQLO3UxKpr01lGpRCz0X4UE6talHvi+UB kkCpqvx3MPj60vzFxv7fm+fXmSBuFZvTEizW2qpZdsm05iOy8lBEzuMj0/NG7d7qiMKP C445eyBEcRUzFYABt0H1Eux/7h4WA+6wQSsyHcccOWF/y+FN9psF9mr8wtYqt2jiauXL UaPKaQzLDKkHhSyKirbRphPVOdy/7vb+nmwaMY/ChHi3mL9IGSfXo58NdZPaJ1XvWx+4 lgTAxE8GL3Tz7Pv762VXx3+9/Vi5DhNL6m3CTU+NisLpY9Z5CRx8Cx4s3JZLfS1Tm4C9 3AZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531mEDi9yxTVNHmd30mLFJGMmPQmgAweisvQs6J7GnVxWVPigE93 tVyPTKY9wnmZZ3Aq4S006VGLr0fU+AJltUierhk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw2kngPDRzWyhngi54w/kVNa0ERi2lJbjOrpmvmAA0KfpFL/UQbzYJXq2boiXbY8qgtpFP9TGmXPYeA8qa5i6I= X-Received: by 2002:a02:ca56:: with SMTP id i22mr13334567jal.50.1618350197543; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 14:43:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161832613923.12447.5987645986878653286@ietfa.amsl.com> <87fszuql5o.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <87fszuql5o.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 17:43:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: Babel at IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-02.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 21:43:24 -0000 Hi, On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 11:06 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > > Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-02.txt > > Inserted more text about ways of choosing IPv4 addresses, as described in > my previous message. I'm not too happy with the new text, which I feel is > somewhat overloaded, so if someone good at writing wants to try their hand > at it, I'd be grateful. I agree it seems somewhat overloaded. I'm also a little bothered by referring to a chosen RFC 1918 address as a "dummy address". RFC 1918 addresses are not intended to be duplicated which might happen if a router just grabbed one, whereas addresses that are officially "dummy addresses" can be intended for possible duplicate use... You ask for suggested wording, so how about: There are various ways to meet this requirement, and choosing between them is left to the implementation. For example, if a router has an interface that has been assigned an IPv4 address, or if an IPv4 address has been assigned to the router itself (to the "loopback interface"), for example a private [RFC1918] address, then that IPv4 address may be "borrowed" to serve as the source of originated ICMPv4 packets. If no such IPv4 address is available, a router SHOULD use the Babel dummy IPv4 address TBD2 as the source of outgoing ICMPv4 packets. Note however that using the same address on multiple routers may hamper debugging and fault isolation, e.g., when using the "traceroute" utility. There would also have to be an addition to the IANA Considerations something like: IANA is requested to assign an IPv4 Special-Purpose Address (192.0.0.11/32 suggested) and record this assignment in the IANA IPv4 Special-Purpose Address Registry as follows: Address Block: TDB2 /32 Name: Babel dummy address RFC: [this document] Source: True Destination: False Forwarable: False Globally Reachable: False Reserved-by-Protocol: False > Expanded acknowledgments. Please let me know if you feel you've been > unfairly omitted. > > Intended status is now Standards Track. I do have some misgivings, but > let's be bold. OK Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > -- Juliusz > > _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel From nobody Tue Apr 13 15:50:03 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3CE3A1421 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:50:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NnPOiBQ9PnzT for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6327F3A1420 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13DMnsrM012642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:54 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/82085) with ESMTP id 13DMnsX1007114; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:54 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E174114060; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id tHxh3Eg1Q5-4; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B0F3A11405E; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:51 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:51 +0200 Message-ID: <87lf9l6bqo.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Donald Eastlake Cc: Babel at IETF In-Reply-To: References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87mtu2qqgr.wl-jch@irif.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 60762012.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 22:50:02 -0000 > a separate Babel dummy address I've been thinking about this all evening, and I think I now see what makes me uncomfortable. (Dinner helped.) By the time the IPv4 module has decided it needs to send an ICMPv4 packet, it does not necessarily know whether the issue it's reporting is due to Babel or to some routing protocol. In fact, there might not even be a well defined responsible protocol -- if a router running both Babel and BGP finds out that it has no route to a given destination, is the ICMPv4 packet associated with Babel or BGP? Thus, any implementable procedure for sending ICMPv4 must be independent of any given routing protocol -- so it's not reasonable to have a Babel dummy address, distinct from a hypothetical BGP dummy address or an OSPF dummy address. If we define a dummy address, that address must be common across all routing protocols. Not sure how to proceed: 1. reuse the 4rd dummy address, as David suggested, repurposing it to be a generic dummy address? 2. write a new RFC defining a cross-protocol dummy address? 3. define a cross-protocol dummy address in this draft? 4. remain vague, as in the current text? 5. some other solution I'm missing? I'm not volunteering for (2), although I could perhaps be a co-author. (3) seems like exceeding the scope of this document. (1) and (4) would be fine with me. -- Juliusz From nobody Tue Apr 13 19:01:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFFCD3A1371 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:01:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5FMJktB0_iAK for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1030.google.com (mail-pj1-x1030.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F4363A136E for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1030.google.com with SMTP id e8-20020a17090a7288b029014e51f5a6baso4651575pjg.2 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:00:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yVYv4cHdCxJEYwv2hOrb7A+1KeSj0eme5Q6gpQKPPhI=; b=YIFVD5wjM8GCjale9Ps08Pky5YU4vKG9BJpxouLkb5BIiDkg6lhdXcV7qRJsHI7dFW VXFHttdc0QhkxKASkXaCIgQSnwZNJNtEIPdMYTgy0NfwRnY1vHRTb3YKZcHrAuxD281g 2lw8H0SnbWjZxL32Jb66EL/tNoLCDSPxnh48n+JHvA6FCJThxPWNYxmnGDM1wsnf7ija DQFlC/q14E/KYuzaIWQ+KdgSNCtydPElM/Ua8583MWdADW5O+kvR8/UVbcdWkFZyQvGq lK701xL7mWPPi+taJpWBDoa+jbtifGr3Ls1srOG+LCO6d/6hIEN8546YxOAWlpPUPdV7 JsRw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yVYv4cHdCxJEYwv2hOrb7A+1KeSj0eme5Q6gpQKPPhI=; b=g6PDk6LNrqm3WdKiJhTLXEEwILhcDm2qLTsBPLfUEYBGgNLOk14duNqEwP1xeoA3FF TE4qsDbj4HR0UvYEmblsU9MEhHUZMOXlHaG3h4cqD0eA+4uaHNHUlNODBmKDcWKdXUqQ oL3+itGObAM5lOgcoRmyNjbDjDn4rcZGBbJQPztq530MjwB6t+7gXBAD4qqsiWtl0ncU ijxeineaaTxRRFoBFYzGV00hCW+YpYj22NjfvJFFFZyBvAAEAJq1EOfz9iYdAIMd+hJB bnUTkqypQ5WlBw0bty1wH14oxQvWo6l+F8+SpqetifZEOAxTLopc32xCHyZciCMRZwre o6kQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531IprAGaj4WC7EhbDvxeb+Z2/5OjEHujgCXRKdTjy8oUbiTI7lR PvEQ32LfdxT9bO6TuojIqWzSIHzcVYMmFe+0Mqo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxjv6v9Hdqd+3Wp6NZOeuIPcMf6DZw3S/j5Ci93WP+w85gART7E8EVMsoXFXWq5RivDUwpb8qxRJlo0vqsFo7Q= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:1b42:: with SMTP id nv2mr806109pjb.190.1618365657972; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:00:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87mtu2qqgr.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87lf9l6bqo.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <87lf9l6bqo.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: David Schinazi Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:00:46 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: Donald Eastlake , Babel at IETF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000029024c05bfe51e39" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Dummy source address [was: I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt] X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 02:01:04 -0000 --00000000000029024c05bfe51e39 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Oh that's a good point, I totally agree. (1) or (4) both seem like the best outcome here. I think I'm now leaning towards (4). David On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 3:50 PM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > a separate Babel dummy address > > I've been thinking about this all evening, and I think I now see what > makes me uncomfortable. (Dinner helped.) > > By the time the IPv4 module has decided it needs to send an ICMPv4 packet, > it does not necessarily know whether the issue it's reporting is due to > Babel or to some routing protocol. In fact, there might not even be > a well defined responsible protocol -- if a router running both Babel and > BGP finds out that it has no route to a given destination, is the ICMPv4 > packet associated with Babel or BGP? > > Thus, any implementable procedure for sending ICMPv4 must be independent > of any given routing protocol -- so it's not reasonable to have a Babel > dummy address, distinct from a hypothetical BGP dummy address or an OSPF > dummy address. If we define a dummy address, that address must be common > across all routing protocols. > > Not sure how to proceed: > > 1. reuse the 4rd dummy address, as David suggested, repurposing it > to be a generic dummy address? > 2. write a new RFC defining a cross-protocol dummy address? > 3. define a cross-protocol dummy address in this draft? > 4. remain vague, as in the current text? > 5. some other solution I'm missing? > > I'm not volunteering for (2), although I could perhaps be a co-author. > (3) seems like exceeding the scope of this document. (1) and (4) would be > fine with me. > > -- Juliusz > > _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel > --00000000000029024c05bfe51e39 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh that's a good point, I totally agree.
(1) or (4= ) both seem like the best outcome here.
I think I'm now leaning= towards (4).

David

On Tue, Apr 13, 202= 1 at 3:50 PM Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif= .fr> wrote:
> a separate Babel dummy address

I've been thinking about this all evening, and I think I now see what makes me uncomfortable.=C2=A0 (Dinner helped.)

By the time the IPv4 module has decided it needs to send an ICMPv4 packet,<= br> it does not necessarily know whether the issue it's reporting is due to=
Babel or to some routing protocol.=C2=A0 In fact, there might not even be a well defined responsible protocol -- if a router running both Babel and BGP finds out that it has no route to a given destination, is the ICMPv4 packet associated with Babel or BGP?

Thus, any implementable procedure for sending ICMPv4 must be independent of any given routing protocol -- so it's not reasonable to have a Babel=
dummy address, distinct from a hypothetical BGP dummy address or an OSPF dummy address.=C2=A0 If we define a dummy address, that address must be com= mon
across all routing protocols.

Not sure how to proceed:

=C2=A01. reuse the 4rd dummy address, as David suggested, repurposing it =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to be a generic dummy address?
=C2=A02. write a new RFC defining a cross-protocol dummy address?
=C2=A03. define a cross-protocol dummy address in this draft?
=C2=A04. remain vague, as in the current text?
=C2=A05. some other solution I'm missing?

I'm not volunteering for (2), although I could perhaps be a co-author.<= br> (3) seems like exceeding the scope of this document.=C2=A0 (1) and (4) woul= d be
fine with me.

-- Juliusz

_______________________________________________
babel mailing list
babel@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel
--00000000000029024c05bfe51e39-- From nobody Tue Apr 13 19:58:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E42C13A1664 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:58:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H6J6s1-qFgsM for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x133.google.com (mail-il1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67EBF3A1663 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x133.google.com with SMTP id n4so15841775ili.8 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:58:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WY1SU26B07lW/HYG+3lZqFFq2LDI9i1Q+jw4fMm3cRo=; b=Sb9QQXSBbnfpbd2mpg784hlyGav3fo6oxZA/YSn6XRhGwRB0mjBNU4pQ0eiRG59nJU OuGjk7Hxa3O+Q58MSvWrJsdM1+zQBc6QHc32lnpcflUHqvOPGjYu3oMzl1asdLiGxFkQ F2fJkF+WhGbeq9gTMKUMr1c3C0ldmMK/tmKeQKoVyr5XJyP/62NNSVpC9VJuiKtviFL6 9U13AXuTI8GtkF/I3F3Q+tNNS/RlbrViMaPQ09gx8aBLEJAPQUu8Bj+QP2tLe4dKF8Q9 vo/TKfwEWci82LGR2u+Bafj082nbpN1o4z9ZKOHcjdAG6z/rFeWCIYZw4xihLvR7hwas BI6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WY1SU26B07lW/HYG+3lZqFFq2LDI9i1Q+jw4fMm3cRo=; b=jH9BmzGNWJUAPz3DTEdn4cS42tiGveeRV5cz4ypoHXN3oXjcft2m+9OrJzoFxIJRcd grLpqxgBtfINjYCTi02ULA2ztXjj3GSw265+KQyEV+OJAcCaMSAZT4TUt7FBsgxqOfRW 0QONumYu72OKB1dF9DX/UI0phJdkYH6SVyt+haO2XXBCOdaEqXFb+KEpm1Ijo5EvdmI8 XhIAB9Bi6ihXAqYeLOB/AkuJVZ3X8sFMrtUxLUW4jCzlRypV1x2U6tH2DQZfjwEVzYEp 1nxb2FiCLgz1cUtbUwVIf8d/w1ZA3vwhtChMdZLAUdQnuilL+uAaANwgMRO+1FOdJIIn O8vg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5329rdTtp2QTwOJxE+CiZV39blbsfq3EvobQQYiEuhZ9c+qHMxXw LgBf0zscKBid2V/L9yi0OvGnF91Acn/hlRGC8FPppSw3qzg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwHgcGCvEHwsaI9qx1QKS7MVb0ZA0JbnjdB/3tVNL85BVQ9BKPT1q/awMGCnE/sLhbqGM/tT1TgXvt+c7bnQlI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:16cf:: with SMTP id 15mr8648443ilx.199.1618369122979; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 19:58:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87mtu2qqgr.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87lf9l6bqo.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <87lf9l6bqo.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 22:58:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: Babel at IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Dummy source address [was: I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt] X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 02:58:50 -0000 Hi Juliusz, On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 6:49 PM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > a separate Babel dummy address > > I've been thinking about this all evening, and I think I now see what > makes me uncomfortable. (Dinner helped.) > > By the time the IPv4 module has decided it needs to send an ICMPv4 packet, > it does not necessarily know whether the issue it's reporting is due to > Babel or to some routing protocol. In fact, there might not even be > a well defined responsible protocol -- if a router running both Babel and > BGP finds out that it has no route to a given destination, is the ICMPv4 > packet associated with Babel or BGP? > > Thus, any implementable procedure for sending ICMPv4 must be independent > of any given routing protocol -- so it's not reasonable to have a Babel > dummy address, distinct from a hypothetical BGP dummy address or an OSPF > dummy address. If we define a dummy address, that address must be common > across all routing protocols. OK. > Not sure how to proceed: > > 1. reuse the 4rd dummy address, as David suggested, repurposing it > to be a generic dummy address? To the extent that it changes the use of and existing assignment, it seems a little mucky. > 2. write a new RFC defining a cross-protocol dummy address? It would be a pretty short RFC but it feels like it would cause some delay. > 3. define a cross-protocol dummy address in this draft? That would actually be a fairly typical thing to do. Basically just replace appropriate occurrences of "Babel" with "IPv4-via-IPv6" so it's the "IPv4-via-IPv6 dummy address" and just mention in passing at some point that it "may" be used with other routing protocols that support IPv4 via IPv6. > 4. remain vague, as in the current text? Seems unsatisfying to me. > 5. some other solution I'm missing? > > I'm not volunteering for (2), although I could perhaps be a co-author. > (3) seems like exceeding the scope of this document. (1) and (4) would be > fine with me. I don't think (3) exceeds our scope. We need a facility. So we specify it in our draft. And, just in passing, we are liberal and say others can use it. There is no need to make a big point of it being "cross-protocol" and no need to name any other routing protocol(s). Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 14 05:31:56 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F7A3A0CA9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 05:31:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6sT66CtwfphQ for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 05:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 272E63A0CA2 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 05:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13ECVl3B011160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 14 Apr 2021 14:31:47 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/82085) with ESMTP id 13ECVlqh010974; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 14:31:47 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DFD311B63A; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 14:31:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id NylOetrJ49Ed; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 14:31:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D86111B637; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 14:31:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 14:31:45 +0200 Message-ID: <87zgy1kpxq.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Donald Eastlake Cc: Babel at IETF In-Reply-To: References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87mtu2qqgr.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87lf9l6bqo.wl-jch@irif.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Wed, 14 Apr 2021 14:31:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Wed, 14 Apr 2021 14:31:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 6076E0B3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 12:31:54 -0000 >> 1. reuse the 4rd dummy address, as David suggested, repurposing it >> to be a generic dummy address? >> 3. define a cross-protocol dummy address in this draft? > I don't think (3) exceeds our scope. We need a facility. So we specify > it in our draft. And, just in passing, we are liberal and say others > can use it. There is no need to make a big point of it being > "cross-protocol" and no need to name any other routing protocol(s). Donald, could you please check RFC 7600, because I'm wondering if that's not what they have done already. Here are the relevant quotations: Section 4.8: R-22: If a CE or BR receives an ICMPv6 error message [RFC4443], it MUST synthesize an ICMPv4 error packet [RFC792]. This packet MUST contain the first 8 octets of the discarded packet's IP payload. The reserved IPv4 dummy address (192.0.0.8/32; see Section 6) MUST be used as its source address. IANA Considerations: o Reserved IPv4 address 192.0.0.8/32 to be used as the "IPv4 dummy address" (Section 4.8). So I'm pretty tempted to say "MAY use 192.0.0.8 if no more suitable IPv4 address is available", as David originally suggested, and see what the IESG says. -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 14 09:10:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F9653A1565 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:10:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0_x1cRxCFjNl for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F51E3A1568 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id s16so15926610iog.9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:10:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uLFNErpzKnL2sxhSmjy7ohBcWakZ5uGrHKVJFte21xw=; b=mcN7j7w3wVy3+oDQe05JA4BRJTwIpWtS81tScwfHhx6x63OIPk8OduEAPDi+riXr48 JZl2R10rYgm1ryWtUGuW49Id4OapzvA5m0TbtztHOzoiQNBkQFpwthHtzygLUo0IBjtj q7NwozHXtD16aiSoJLUsa4aWpo0XYtoxKBoHBpSHHkH5+Cm58uQvQUx+k26eT/KNa/Aq py33PK3mBqc7uzvr2p1KSEAGpFoYnfThkfw1NHOCdXxKA+HUsgHZ6f6bSZDJOgc/AZFw nXsLHVRdyX0e40dpRWzLaq1+2KLOXRDZ2fz1ZwYaFrJnUQjOdq9F666htuT8UlJ+FYza z77Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uLFNErpzKnL2sxhSmjy7ohBcWakZ5uGrHKVJFte21xw=; b=kni1u6TMSA42synDq++A7eCtzzUp8avHKwiQJJyYtwcR7YC0xAvngA92lPLOatR3It UB4TscL9ABb8W2eIIJfYTk3pOER7+cT+SOBTgHVlBVLbs4voPXWWqSPTOCB8h99kcwj4 LbaTUIe78CqsuQ3+DBWx5EPCyIN8Wk/QgNQn4E4wAVt2yEt9B+614VT2hRp0NrTv74g6 jbH1dn+g95s9TwLr9vv0YEtGN3LaX9g67AYa0kpkY7fx81qsL+QVgwDkFVZ375uu4R1q OOzRp0TuYd7qMWr/G6Pcrdytf0rUgTkpHmNy1m9zm5i1nAGsm8xlPKH3mvh3fUG024p5 9Drg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531t1OVfGDdoytIedmV/mD02n1bEUVRnHbeWvjmjWfNRYETrtW02 vBUAVq8jPeTwrKXhziv4cSkEMPojQIQEKQvPQZk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyHd9lZlDdTY73YdjGFMnyNEOOIEZO/i6zxHS02fKiDZc2aeJvHG00LUFgmq/h+BbxZkiJRcFkAPr3KTAI3/IQ= X-Received: by 2002:a02:c80b:: with SMTP id p11mr34646422jao.96.1618416643322; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:10:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87mtu2qqgr.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87lf9l6bqo.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87zgy1kpxq.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <87zgy1kpxq.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 12:10:32 -0400 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: Babel at IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Dummy source address [was: I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt] X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 16:10:50 -0000 Hi Juliusz, On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 8:31 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > >> 1. reuse the 4rd dummy address, as David suggested, repurposing it > >> to be a generic dummy address? > > >> 3. define a cross-protocol dummy address in this draft? > > > I don't think (3) exceeds our scope. We need a facility. So we specify > > it in our draft. And, just in passing, we are liberal and say others > > can use it. There is no need to make a big point of it being > > "cross-protocol" and no need to name any other routing protocol(s). > > Donald, could you please check RFC 7600, because I'm wondering if that's > not what they have done already. Here are the relevant quotations: > > Section 4.8: > > R-22: If a CE or BR receives an ICMPv6 error message [RFC4443], it > MUST synthesize an ICMPv4 error packet [RFC792]. This packet > MUST contain the first 8 octets of the discarded packet's IP > payload. The reserved IPv4 dummy address (192.0.0.8/32; see > Section 6) MUST be used as its source address. > > IANA Considerations: > > o Reserved IPv4 address 192.0.0.8/32 to be used as the "IPv4 dummy > address" (Section 4.8). > > So I'm pretty tempted to say "MAY use 192.0.0.8 if no more suitable IPv4 > address is available", as David originally suggested, and see what the > IESG says. I spent a little while looking at RFC 7600. Their use is very close to ours and they have deliberately chosen a maximally generic name for 192.0.0.8. So I don't have any problem with going with that address in the draft. This is also a faster way to get to a really stable address. The interesting question is whether or not to reference RFC 7600. I would be tempted not to since, to implement Babel IPv4 via IPv6, there isn't anything in RFC 7600 you have to know about -- in fact someone could be confused or at least end up wasting time looking at the 4rd stuff in RFC 7600. Just use 192.0.0.8/32 are refer to it as "the IPv4 dummy address". Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 21 07:29:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietf.org Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7EF3A29F2; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:28:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: babel@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: babel@ietf.org Message-ID: <161901533880.5182.7327171573404916929@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:28:58 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 14:28:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Babel routing protocol WG of the IETF. Title : Source-Specific Routing in Babel Authors : Matthieu Boutier Juliusz Chroboczek Filename : draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2021-04-21 Abstract: Source-specific routing (also known as Source-Address Dependent Routing, SADR) is an extension to traditional next-hop routing where packets are forwarded according to both their destination and their source address. This document describes an extension for source- specific routing to the Babel routing protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-source-specific/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Apr 21 07:29:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 363703A2A4A; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:29:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2AeVKxD0S4YI; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 802ED3A2A1D; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13LETHsu022372; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:17 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825ECEF11A; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id zhdJWvziXCtC; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8DFC6EF116; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:15 +0200 Message-ID: <877dkvaeys.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Barry Leiba Cc: "The IESG" , draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org, babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, Donald Eastlake In-Reply-To: <160402882613.17493.9555978018041518117@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <160402882613.17493.9555978018041518117@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 608036BD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 608036BD.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 608036BD.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 14:29:36 -0000 Thanks for your comments. > — Section 5.2 — > Please expand “AE” on first use. Done. > A node MUST NOT send > a wildcard retraction with an attached source prefix, and a node that > receives a wildcard retraction with a source prefix MUST ignore it. > The “it” here is ambiguous: please specify “MUST ignore the source prefix” or > “MUST ignore the retraction”. The same comment applies also to the subsequent > paragraph. Done. > — Section 6.1 — > For what it’s worth, I don’t find the diagram to add anything to the text, and > I wouldn’t have a clue what the diagram was trying to say without the text. The whole section has been rewritten and moved to the introduction. > Packets > destined to D but not sourced in S will be forwarded by A to B, and > by B to A, causing a persistent routing loop > That text is describing not what will happen with this standard, but what > *would* happen if this standard didn’t correct for it. So please change “will > be forwarded” to”would be forwarded”, Done. This is now Section 1.3. Thanks, -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 21 07:30:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164A03A29F2; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:30:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s5aawmWbTUSQ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C2833A29F9; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13LETm3x022676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:48 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/82085) with ESMTP id 13LETlwm002280; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:47 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC8FEF148; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id GWNNMucnUSg9; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A2520EF144; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:45 +0200 Message-ID: <875z0faexy.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Benjamin Kaduk Cc: "The IESG" , draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org, babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, Donald Eastlake In-Reply-To: <160410817933.20181.137158173131306726@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <160410817933.20181.137158173131306726@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:29:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 608036DC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 608036DB.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 608036DC.000 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 608036DB.005 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 608036DC.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 608036DB.005 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 14:30:00 -0000 Thanks for your comments. > Section 3.1 > Note that the route entry contains a source (see sections 2 and 3.2.5 > of [BABEL]) which itself contains a source prefix. These are two > very different concepts that should not be confused. > I appreciate having this note; thanks. I wonder if it is worth > reiterating that the stock [BABEL] "source prefix" is the prefix of the > source of the routing information, to jog the reader's memory. Clarified in a slightly different way from what you suggest. > Section 5.1 > Prefix sub-TLV. When a node receives a source-specific Update > (prefix, source prefix, router-id, seqno, metric) from a neighbour > neigh, it behaves as described in [BABEL] Section 3.5.4, except that > It looks like some section renumbering has occurred, as 3.5.3 of > draft-ietf-babel-rfc6126bis-20 looks much more relevant than 3.5.4 > does. Done (two counts). > the entry under consideration is indexed by (prefix, source prefix, > neigh) rather than just (prefix, neigh). > [The two prefix lengths are implicit now, though were explicit in > [BABEL]?] Fixed, thanks. > Section 5.2 > We should probably expand "AE" on first use. Done. > Section 6.2 > A simple yet sufficient condition for avoiding starvation is to build > a connected source-specific backbone that includes all of the edge > routers, [...] > I'm not sure I understand what "connected backbone that includes all of > the edge routers" is intended to mean. Hopefully clearer now. It's now Section 6.1. > Section 7.1 > If I recall correctly, Babel sub-TLVs do not admit sub-sub-TLVs, so we > would treat a sub-TLV "length" that indicates more bytes of payload than > indicated by the "source plen" as an encoding error and reject the > sub-TLV, right? Added wording to that effect. > Source Plen The length of the advertised source prefix. This MUST > NOT be 0. > Please use "length in bits" to match 6126bis. Done. > Section 7.3 > Should we consider being consistent about the use of parentheses around > "route" in the section heading and section body? Fixed. > Section 7.4 > Just to check my understanding: we do not expect issues where (e.g.) a > source-specific seqno request is sent to a non-source-specific node and > thus dropped, because seqno requests are supposed to be sent only to > nodes that are or in the past were advertising a (possibly non-feasible) route > for that prefix. Such a source-specific advertisement would only be sent > by a source-specific node, that would accordingly not drop the seqno request. That's one case (forwarding a request). The other case is when a router originates a request, in which case it will send the request over multicast, and so non-source-specific requests will be received by non-specific routers, and silently ignored due to the mandatory sub-TLV. > Section 9 > I was surprised to see in a quick check of 6126bis that there did not > seem to be a prominent mention in the security considerations of "make > sure your parser handles TLVs that indicate a length larger than the > size of the packet". Should there be one? Perhaps. That ship has sailed, though. > Section 11.1 > We cite BCP84 as part of the line "which is compatible with [BCP84]". > That in and of itself does not necessarily seem like enough to justify a > normative relationship, though perhaps there are other reasons why it is > needed. This section has been completely rewritten, it is now Section 1.1. I hope it is clearer now. Thanks again, -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 21 07:31:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2093E3A29F7; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:31:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P1lZjstOyqN5; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-f180.google.com (mail-lj1-f180.google.com [209.85.208.180]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38BE33A29F3; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-f180.google.com with SMTP id z23so1478419lji.4; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:31:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VO9NMTG67RijNXJ03mX3FEemmohomm5X2hn3T0jQnhU=; b=DRM3jaA/cS458vdLhtz7+4nsER3ZSugUzswJWr8yH2J2QePsJHgj0bqq3PYIgANDZe +bm5H8dhsiriWojgPsu/L6qvkIbFZWWs6K072+JmvTG159PQUFraW/rXhEtcphI/DYb0 98zBzk0OapHrxCnpVu9Qm1aLvnxmoSZaFbU+3T7ZPGwH/Knzdtq7xe1zUuSvd62Rn/th 3jKVT+ajRhohcTq6y7gCSmUX513VQ8fkzZo2H76iyknWRdd9Dt2yutnmV+Ee1WoAW/6F MC6+nf3t8hzCPy43NArHI6MeqXK6tPjmBnn1WzL3ttm0inPB+1vbkiGCL26fPBGsFluS vLkw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530zLMw8v49F1F4FF9M1IgZc0RgV92uPaPNgmMGAjCPybSEmKoCr JKppaDkG+nPyWEZfkCrFC/NMUz3IEm41H8AMFRM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxuIZwefwKyPSMBLRmHXxq1EoAgEFVdZl2Lxnrnd+X5jJosUAIIgL5zdXfa8d6XPzgYLkF6gMv3hc+9nm/sFa4= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9b16:: with SMTP id u22mr18703462lji.313.1619015459129; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:30:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160402882613.17493.9555978018041518117@ietfa.amsl.com> <877dkvaeys.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <877dkvaeys.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Barry Leiba Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:30:48 -0400 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: Donald Eastlake , The IESG , babel@ietf.org, babel-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000053cbb805c07c6958" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 14:31:10 -0000 --00000000000053cbb805c07c6958 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Juliusz... I appreciate the response, and thanks for addressing my comments. Barry On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 10:29 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > Thanks for your comments. > > > =E2=80=94 Section 5.2 =E2=80=94 > > Please expand =E2=80=9CAE=E2=80=9D on first use. > > Done. > > > A node MUST NOT send > > a wildcard retraction with an attached source prefix, and a node tha= t > > receives a wildcard retraction with a source prefix MUST ignore it. > > > The =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D here is ambiguous: please specify =E2=80=9CMUS= T ignore the source > prefix=E2=80=9D or > > =E2=80=9CMUST ignore the retraction=E2=80=9D. The same comment applies= also to the > subsequent > > paragraph. > > Done. > > > =E2=80=94 Section 6.1 =E2=80=94 > > For what it=E2=80=99s worth, I don=E2=80=99t find the diagram to add an= ything to the > text, and > > I wouldn=E2=80=99t have a clue what the diagram was trying to say witho= ut the > text. > > The whole section has been rewritten and moved to the introduction. > > > Packets > > destined to D but not sourced in S will be forwarded by A to B, and > > by B to A, causing a persistent routing loop > > > That text is describing not what will happen with this standard, but wh= at > > *would* happen if this standard didn=E2=80=99t correct for it. So plea= se change > =E2=80=9Cwill > > be forwarded=E2=80=9D to=E2=80=9Dwould be forwarded=E2=80=9D, > > Done. This is now Section 1.3. > > Thanks, > > -- Juliusz > --00000000000053cbb805c07c6958 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Juliusz... I appreciate the response, and thanks = for addressing my comments.

Barry

On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 10:29 AM Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> wrote:
Thanks for your comments.

> =E2=80=94 Section 5.2 =E2=80=94
> Please expand =E2=80=9CAE=E2=80=9D on first use.

Done.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A node MUST NOT send
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a wildcard retraction with an attached source prefix, and= a node that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 receives a wildcard retraction with a source prefix MUST = ignore it.

> The =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D here is ambiguous: please specify =E2=80=9CMU= ST ignore the source prefix=E2=80=9D or
> =E2=80=9CMUST ignore the retraction=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 The same comment a= pplies also to the subsequent
> paragraph.

Done.

> =E2=80=94 Section 6.1 =E2=80=94
> For what it=E2=80=99s worth, I don=E2=80=99t find the diagram to add a= nything to the text, and
> I wouldn=E2=80=99t have a clue what the diagram was trying to say with= out the text.

The whole section has been rewritten and moved to the introduction.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Packets
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 destined to D but not sourced in S will be forwarded by A= to B, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 by B to A, causing a persistent routing loop

> That text is describing not what will happen with this standard, but w= hat
> *would* happen if this standard didn=E2=80=99t correct for it.=C2=A0 S= o please change =E2=80=9Cwill
> be forwarded=E2=80=9D to=E2=80=9Dwould be forwarded=E2=80=9D,

Done.=C2=A0 This is now Section 1.3.

Thanks,

-- Juliusz
--00000000000053cbb805c07c6958-- From nobody Wed Apr 21 07:32:03 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC773A24F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:32:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NFIii6qO1wDn for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 340D83A22C4 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13LEVt7h023568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:55 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/82085) with ESMTP id 13LEVteh003045 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:55 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E1CEF1FA for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id Q2OwbNgyIwHd for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1537BEF1F4 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:53 +0200 Message-ID: <874kfzaeue.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: babel@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <161901533880.5182.7327171573404916929@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <161901533880.5182.7327171573404916929@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 6080375B.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 6080375B.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 6080375B.005 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 6080375B.005 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 6080375B.005 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 6080375B.005 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 14:32:02 -0000 > Filename : draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08.txt I've rewritten and expanded the introduction, and moved some material from the body to the introduction. I think the new version is much clearer. As always, proof-reading of the new material will be accepted with huge enthusiasm, utter joy, and unlimited gratefulness. -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 21 07:41:18 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BE6E3A2A8E; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:41:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id quiaHwstq_kj; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AF913A2AA6; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13LEf4PD026788; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:41:04 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BFE2EF3CB; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:41:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id XjsmFvO7oIx4; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:41:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5BDEEEF3C9; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:41:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:41:02 +0200 Message-ID: <8735vjaef5.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Alvaro Retana Cc: "The IESG" , draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org, babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, Donald Eastlake In-Reply-To: <160441631177.15161.14360810315064872038@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <160441631177.15161.14360810315064872038@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:41:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 60803980.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60803980.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60803980.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 14:41:16 -0000 > I am balloting DISCUSS because I believe that the document is missing important > considerations/details related to the operation of Babel in a network. I hope > these points should be easy to address. In -08, I've rewritten and expanded the background section. Please review the new version. > (a) While I understand the table above is just an example, it can be > interpreted as indicating that B is the provider that assigned the > 2001:DB8:0:2::/64 prefix. This whole section has been rewritten. It is hopefully now clear that this is just an example of what could go wrong if we weren't careful, and is not meant to be representative of actual usage. > (b) How is the source address selected by the host? I've added wording to explain that. Please note that host behaviour is outside the scope of this document, and that it is an open area of research -- while the new text points at IPv6 address selection, at MPTCP, at SCTP, and at ICE, I do not believe that any of these protocols provides the final answer to this very interesting problem. > (1) 4 talks about "lower layers", what are those? Please be specific. The text says "any lower layer that performs packet forwarding". This is meant to apply either to the TCAM or the kernel's forwarding engine, depending on your implementation, but tries to avoid mentioning any particular technology. > (2) The second bullet in 4 says that "Babel...MUST either silently ignore any > source-specific routes, or disambiguate..." Given the required (use of MUST) > nature of the disambiguation, I would like to see an algorithm for it, not just > an example. I do not include this point in the DISCUSS section because I think > there are ways not to require disambiguation; perhaps something along the lines > of: > ...SHOULD silently ignore any source-specific routes. A router can also > choose to use a disambiguation algorithm (see SS-ROUTING for an example), > but the details are out of this document's scope. The text says (see Section V.B of [SS-ROUTING] for such an algorithm); > (3) 7.1: "Source Plen The length of the advertised source prefix." Indicate > in bits. Done. -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 21 07:43:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 854F93A2A7F; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:43:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4czotnYGDRcQ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A5873A2A7B; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13LEhTWL027646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:43:30 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/82085) with ESMTP id 13LEhTdN006467; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:43:29 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98CC7EF47A; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:43:29 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id rv5IBsRg1BCD; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:43:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F0A0FEF478; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:43:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:43:27 +0200 Message-ID: <87zgxr8zqo.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Warren Kumari Cc: "The IESG" , draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org, babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, Donald Eastlake In-Reply-To: <160444589696.9348.17838097712934982658@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <160444589696.9348.17838097712934982658@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:43:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:43:29 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 60803A11.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 60803A11.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60803A11.000 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60803A11.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60803A11.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60803A11.000 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-07: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 14:43:46 -0000 > The example in Section 4 (Data Forwarding) illustrates an issue, but doesn't > actually *state* which (A or B) next hop will be used. This part has been removed, and instead we refer to the new Section 1.3. There is also a much expanded discussion in the rest of Section 1. I hope this clarifies the points you raise. -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 21 07:46:18 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietf.org Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 315743A2A93; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:46:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Warren Kumari via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org, babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, Donald Eastlake , d3e3e3@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Warren Kumari Message-ID: <161901637417.20333.11587515035208209193@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:46:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [babel] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 14:46:14 -0000 Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-source-specific/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my concerns - DISCUSS cleared. From nobody Wed Apr 21 07:48:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9F13A28E7 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:48:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zmD7ah3N7ZYa for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 256813A2BBE for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id x19so36855055lfa.2 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:47:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=stTHC2FghlNfPX4YWl7YWckPrvABSWS6fsFdYj2yj5g=; b=Y8EPSzbYw04lhPjQOObeXRBAiW5pu3Q8pyWKMNgxbdyKNLrRV1DRJzoRkvpFfvvFSL uVaVbPFFDaVxvGokOjqGIzoq8Hw8cf4WRUXKHr2hqronXyFy3+w7vc/4zO1RKFTjmuOT JJxEysdK0G9ydfbv+yMoQOmkSrDyAUPtAfdUaqYPdiyaY24xgRHrvll3nkQlg26rH83J nRTA0VMI5hqzzjRChInpP64OlkKuB9bP7H73BueHh7LQJnzPnXMHhKLscrIZ32ODYnUa 62L3GiABg3GV+geALQiKg77KSl7uuSRRZKa1flombJ5ayrl/VE5VMEoEfq6m5mL4Wgem e0uw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=stTHC2FghlNfPX4YWl7YWckPrvABSWS6fsFdYj2yj5g=; b=shtkj7J1jpAwBhPgMeR6JiBu5Rn9MSSD5wDK05i8IatLvR+n6x0qw9GW6eQ2ZtyVes SgIOE54VV3Yjik8kszB7dFT7U9NWRy08gdxakD0Lpn1vqHTMCiXmw97WFZ8mA8P2rDc8 yenw6WBbvQ90WmJXlquuSZMXRrVw5ux9fCDLd+Ni9fStAunhPh+uGFBH6hzxZDF14toc A3wZJkVZHBBKUKt6iyKYiEw8Ouic9X5amyyXLt9d8opejXOOhW8C0ccmdmpCPcQhYIZL UsyrjOpZExFIzQDprKxxTpfPNjZ/XwusiNCLf8k7wvvz+L0RtF/o+Ob7MCEU1Y1cCUdr XEJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533ipfHiBDNFo4c4USOCc3tRdYdBA9VoyrXVRYIjAZVoqOiAuj04 9fwFo/WGshct2XJgKlTgUGkrI8kXW+eRzgZx3W08Ng== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx9ijhqAbPYaX1v9pWBoQ5J1t2s/hjhBsUAaem9YAgXiY4lHkO4SROQy87CgIjvA8TY0THVEBjLw6/9MVIKGUg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:104c:: with SMTP id c12mr8507135lfb.562.1619016459394; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:47:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160444589696.9348.17838097712934982658@ietfa.amsl.com> <87zgxr8zqo.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <87zgxr8zqo.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Warren Kumari Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:47:03 -0400 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org, babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, Donald Eastlake Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f2b85605c07ca462" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-07: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 14:48:05 -0000 --000000000000f2b85605c07ca462 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 10:43 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > The example in Section 4 (Data Forwarding) illustrates an issue, but > doesn't > > actually *state* which (A or B) next hop will be used. > > This part has been removed, and instead we refer to the new Section 1.3. > There is also a much expanded discussion in the rest of Section 1. I hop= e > this clarifies the points you raise. > > Awesome, thank you for addressing my concerns -- I've cleared my DISCUSS. Thanks again, W > -- Juliusz > > > --=20 The computing scientist=E2=80=99s main challenge is not to get confused by = the complexities of his own making. -- E. W. Dijkstra --000000000000f2b85605c07ca462 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 10:43 AM Jul= iusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> wrot= e:
> The exam= ple in Section 4 (Data Forwarding) illustrates an issue, but doesn't > actually *state* which (A or B) next hop will be used.

This part has been removed, and instead we refer to the new Section 1.3. There is also a much expanded discussion in the rest of Section 1.=C2=A0 I = hope
this clarifies the points you raise.


Awesome, thank you for addressing my concer= ns -- I've cleared my DISCUSS.

Thanks again,
W

=C2=A0
-- Juliusz




--
The computing scientist=E2=80= =99s main challenge is not to get confused by the
complexities of his ow= n making.
=C2=A0 -- E. W. Dijkstra
--000000000000f2b85605c07ca462-- From nobody Wed Apr 21 08:18:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AFFA3A2BC6; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:18:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nRLufg9viKff; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:18:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2a.google.com (mail-io1-xd2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E4863A29E2; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:18:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2a.google.com with SMTP id z14so8929109ioc.12; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:18:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SSahtykTNV2QR6xhcd1vGivZRLQ2eQc8et3n+fm7qgQ=; b=AYAIIqQZ44DRXqg2qQwvQbNFOx6PfIc+UsUf9atNqjcZvFRWxNBXavs4DIsCplIw1F ktZiyhcbd3ubLCqePlM2LA84iKWYaM1JCqx+9FxVgQ4kKyGnDR/NvggGqNhTdArZ86a0 2J6UPQopWHF2Lkn7FNEI0wrwTllzdc/qmwSst2rfZnNN+mB08U3j5GnHFbHgk3reMGnz b/fm9tEBLMfTl1iqwhmAfxXMxr4XFJp6NQPaQhVFIx52Y6P95L4DKPvYsasQw7/9CEK7 IyA16JBuEq76414TSxNh5FQQQUPfBP9+1k7r6A6cD3afOlyXWJAdVooIobHFIBLeBZP9 d39A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SSahtykTNV2QR6xhcd1vGivZRLQ2eQc8et3n+fm7qgQ=; b=lGMF1gHq5I8OcLq/3mI1as/FodA5PAvpBDEw3FPQolj/jXNAZdZjIXz2mXWeJ4n6md B8FP0HIwMBSFUPI2sFoZQq1uOE6cltLN9TXRTijT9S3UUA3r9FwL1blKIEgPYD1W7KVo wHAEnZKMCsqany1/vOh5juzstvkmvHPk1f46+DKRg+tyhjs+WjLv1nbjU3VYbCxjBxAt +ac50W5y5GpjCQ9FqqDhvpenM0iRlfo3Uc5BT+GQYow2XNotwHEfMID9ndAUQpB1IpgT QQaKqJD61VvRvhiFs5VtieQYr5viHXzP2fFtiTUT0RbtZEJu8kOTvDRPalQxEVfEZSDl X+AA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5302iUD+du2CDC162CRX6mUK4SgCyRZaAQIQVCdPybaD3Dj2cLQj BFxV6bcxQm7vYsbpZT/69KOyNCcgzu5i3RPuXJYLCDtr8Gg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy1lXhYnx20wwvsrPAddunmfMq+Ru7LLWd/2h6W/XAwrUgg0tjVMuHT3QTYzdfy9D5BopALJX7DXyp3BpUjH48= X-Received: by 2002:a02:9f01:: with SMTP id z1mr16956391jal.95.1619018311183; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:18:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160453946202.22882.3587018410396865705@ietfa.amsl.com> <875z6jahym.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <875z6jahym.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Martin Duke Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:18:20 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org, babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, Donald Eastlake Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000052afd305c07d13c6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Martin Duke's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-07: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 15:18:38 -0000 --00000000000052afd305c07d13c6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, I overlooked these replies in my email. I will remove my DISCUSS. On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 8:25 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > I've done some minor reordering to your comments. Hopefully this doesn't > change their meaning. > > > I am concerned about the congestion implications of this architecture. > If there > > are P prefixes in the network, the number of TLVs exchanged potentially > goes > > from P to P^2. > > Source-specific routes don't arise ex nihilo: they are injected into the > routing domain through redistribution, just like ordinary, destination-on= ly > routes. There is no way for Babel to exchange P=C2=B2 prefixes unless th= e > network administrator has explicitly selected P=C2=B2 prefixes for > redistribution. > > > But are there any safeguards in the protocol against this happening > > There are no safeguards in the protocol against a network administrator > redistributing unreasonable numbers of source-specific routes into a Babe= l > domain, just like there are no safeguards in the protocol against > redistributing the full BGP routing table. > > > Or ought there to be some operational guidance to be somewhat selective > > about source prefixes? > > Source-specific routing is a mechanism, which, as you rightly note, has > a worst-case quadratic cost. We currently know of three applications for > source-specific routing, outlined in [SS-ROUTING] Sections II.B and II.C, > and none of the three known applications lead to the worst-case quadratic > explosion that you fear. Interestingly, two of these applications have > the potential to reduce the amount of routing data propagated globally in > the Internet, at a moderate cost in the amount of data propagated locally= . > This seems to me like an excellent tradeoff. > > As source-specific routing becomes widely available and well-known, peopl= e > will hopefully find new and exciting applications for this mechanism. > Each of these new applications will need to be studied carefully, and its > complexity understood. It is not the role of the mechanism, however, to > prohibit future applications just because they might turn out to be too > costly. > > -- Juliusz > --00000000000052afd305c07d13c6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, I overlooked these replies in my email. I will remo= ve my DISCUSS.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 8:25 AM Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> wrote:
I've done some minor reordering = to your comments.=C2=A0 Hopefully this doesn't
change their meaning.

> I am concerned about the congestion implications of this architecture.= If there
> are P prefixes in the network, the number of TLVs exchanged potentiall= y goes
> from P to P^2.

Source-specific routes don't arise ex nihilo: they are injected into th= e
routing domain through redistribution, just like ordinary, destination-only=
routes.=C2=A0 There is no way for Babel to exchange P=C2=B2 prefixes unless= the
network administrator has explicitly selected P=C2=B2 prefixes for redistri= bution.

> But are there any safeguards in the protocol against this happening
There are no safeguards in the protocol against a network administrator
redistributing unreasonable numbers of source-specific routes into a Babel<= br> domain, just like there are no safeguards in the protocol against
redistributing the full BGP routing table.

> Or ought there to be some operational guidance to be somewhat selectiv= e
> about source prefixes?

Source-specific routing is a mechanism, which, as you rightly note, has
a worst-case quadratic cost.=C2=A0 We currently know of three applications = for
source-specific routing, outlined in [SS-ROUTING] Sections II.B and II.C, and none of the three known applications lead to the worst-case quadratic explosion that you fear.=C2=A0 Interestingly, two of these applications hav= e
the potential to reduce the amount of routing data propagated globally in the Internet, at a moderate cost in the amount of data propagated locally.<= br> This seems to me like an excellent tradeoff.

As source-specific routing becomes widely available and well-known, people<= br> will hopefully find new and exciting applications for this mechanism.
Each of these new applications will need to be studied carefully, and its complexity understood.=C2=A0 It is not the role of the mechanism, however, = to
prohibit future applications just because they might turn out to be too cos= tly.

-- Juliusz
--00000000000052afd305c07d13c6-- From nobody Wed Apr 21 08:18:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietf.org Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5B463A2BC6; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:18:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Duke via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org, babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, Donald Eastlake , d3e3e3@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Martin Duke Message-ID: <161901832019.3496.6081436520708846574@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:18:40 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [babel] Martin Duke's No Objection on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 15:18:41 -0000 Martin Duke has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-source-specific/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for answering the question in my DISCUSS. From nobody Wed Apr 21 08:42:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E7953A2C9C; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:42:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YrPyKcuPhXmC; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37F1F3A2C1A; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13LFgKeG020531; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:42:20 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F65F0173; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:42:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id emfzj8UH1emA; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:42:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2EA18F016A; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:42:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:42:17 +0200 Message-ID: <87wnsv8x0m.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9ric?= Vyncke Cc: "The IESG" , draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org, babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, Donald Eastlake In-Reply-To: <160456880126.24423.3828288743954574173@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <160456880126.24423.3828288743954574173@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:42:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 608047DC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 608047DC.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 608047DC.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] =?iso-8859-1?q?=C9ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-i?= =?iso-8859-1?q?etf-babel-source-specific-07=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 15:42:38 -0000 Dear ric, Thanks for your comments. > Generic comment: did the author read draft-ietf-rtgwg-dst-src-routing ? It is > an expired RTG WG adopted document and is not even cited as informative > reference. As mentioned earlier, it was cited in previous versions, but the responsible AD requested that we not depend on an expired draft. I have therefore rewritten the introduction and the security considerations to make the document more self-contained. I have no objection to reinstating the citation should the responsible AD change his mind. > Same for reference to RFC 8678. I am ashamed to say that I have not read this document. I have just put it on my to-do list. Please let me know if you feel strongly that it should be cited, and I'll move it higher in my queue. > -- Section 3.1 -- > Is the first "prefix" the "destination prefix" in the following text? If so, > then I suggest to write "destination prefix" or explain what is this "prefix" > with reference to the Bable RFC: > "The source table is now indexed by triples of the form (prefix, > source prefix, router-id)." Yes, the notations were inconsistent between this document and RFC 8966. This has hopefully been fixed now. > -- Section 4 -- > May I suggest to add another example with 2 entries have the same destination > prefix but different source prefixes ? Discussion has been added in Section 1.3. Please let me know if you still feel something is missing. > -- Section 6 -- > May be my lack of knowledge in Babel is the reason why I do not understand the > loop avoidance description... As written in the text, a single non-source-aware > router in the network could be enough to introduce loop (in specific > configurations). Writing the following text appear to me as a little hand > waving because how can this be ensure (I was about to file a block DISCUSS on > this but I am trusting the routing AD on this topic): " Consequently, this > extension MUST NOT be used > with routers implementing RFC 6126, otherwise persistent routing > loops may occur." This extension interoperates with RFC 8966. It does not interoperate with RFC 6126. To quote RFC 8966 Appendix F: RFC 7557 did not define mandatory sub-TLVs (Section 4.4), and thus an implementation of RFCs 6126 and 7557 will not correctly ignore a TLV that carries an unknown mandatory sub-TLV; depending on the sub-TLV, this might cause routing pathologies. An implementation of this specification that never sends Unicast or unscheduled Hellos and doesn't implement any extensions that use mandatory sub-TLVs is safe to deploy in a network in which some nodes implement the protocol described in RFCs 6126 and 7557. This extension uses mandatory sub-TLVs, and is not safe to deploy together with implementations of RFC 6126. The issue was debated at length by the Babel WG, and we came to the conclusion that it was a risk we were willing to take. There exist four independent implementations of Babel, of which two are actually used in production. These two implementations have been updated to follow 8966 in early 2018, and we have done a fair amount of work to hunt down any Babel networks and make sure they patched their implementations of Babel. Thus, we believe that it is now safe to deploy extensions that break RFC 6126. > -- Section 6.2 -- > The last paragraph is also a little hand waving where it is assumed that > network topology/configuration is specific to avoid a route starvation. I've tried to clarify this paragraph. Let me know if you feel I haven't done enough. > -- Section 7.1 -- > Should the text state the obvious by stating that the prefix (non 8 multiple) > is padded with bits set to 0 on transmission and those bits are ignored on > reception ? That's also not done in RFC 8966. Let me know if you feel strongly about it. > -- Section 4 and possibly others -- > Please use RFC 5952 to write IPv6 addresses. Done. > -- Section 5.2 -- > Please introduce the "AE" acronym at first use (even if guessable in the > context). Done. Thanks, -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 21 09:06:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietf.org Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0C73A2AA9; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:06:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: babel@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: babel@ietf.org Message-ID: <161902119477.7566.8966155269813261543@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:06:34 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:06:35 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Babel routing protocol WG of the IETF. Title : IPv4 routes with an IPv6 next-hop in the Babel routing protocol Author : Juliusz Chroboczek Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2021-04-21 Abstract: This document defines an extension to the Babel routing protocol that allows annoncing routes to an IPv4 prefix with an IPv6 next-hop, which makes it possible for IPv4 traffic to flow through interfaces that have not been assigned an IPv4 address. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Apr 21 10:08:06 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A1463A2FB7; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:08:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1L0m5vy7XUGs; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B7D83A2FB6; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13LH7ajL022760; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:37 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4439F1671; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id OLJ0KdZWrMS5; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B2B69F166E; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:34 +0200 Message-ID: <87mttr8t2h.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Robert Wilton Cc: "The IESG" , draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org, babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, Donald Eastlake In-Reply-To: <160458171308.17244.3373983961712478100@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <160458171308.17244.3373983961712478100@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 60805BD8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60805BD8.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60805BD8.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:08:04 -0000 Thanks for your comments. > My specific discuss issue relates to clarifying the indexes of the 'source' and > 'route' tables to indicate whether they are replacing the 'prefix-len' elements > of the existing 3 tuple indexes, or adding additional elements to the existing > index, effectively making them 5 tuple indexes. This has been fixed. > I might be completely confused, but my understanding is that what is called the > "destination prefix" in this document, is effectively what is referred to as > the "source" in draft-ietf-babel-rfc6126bis (e.g., in the Route Table in > section 3.2.5), that also happens to be a prefix. Is that right? Not quite. The "source" is a data structure that, in the original protocol, contains an originating router-id and a destination prefix plus some data used by the loop-avoidance algorithm. Two routes originated by distinct routers have distinct sources (hence the name); OTOH, if the same route (same originating router and same prefix) is learnt from two neighbours, the two routing table entries share a single source. This is described in RFC 8966 Section 3.2.5. In this document, the "source" data structure is extended with a "source prefix/plen". Confusion ensues, but it's too late to change the original protocol's terminology. > A further confusion is that this draft seems to sometimes describes prefixes > differently from how they are described in the Babel RFC that it is extending. This has been fixed, sorry for that. > Note that the route entry contains a source (see sections 2 and 3.2.5 > of [BABEL]) which itself contains a source prefix. These are two > very different concepts that should not be confused. > Should this reference be to 3.2.6? Arguably both -- the source is described in 3.2.5, while 3.2.6 describes the route table. Thanks, -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 21 10:14:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992CC3A2FE7 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:14:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4DhYAE7xmboW for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFFBF3A2FED for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13LHE0tw025062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:14:00 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/82085) with ESMTP id 13LHE0lL022018 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:14:00 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB15FF175C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:14:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id l92SqrTqB6yL for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:13:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2A9A0F175A for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:13:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:13:59 +0200 Message-ID: <87k0ov8srs.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: babel@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <161902119477.7566.8966155269813261543@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <161902119477.7566.8966155269813261543@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:14:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:14:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 60805D58.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 60805D58.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60805D58.000 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60805D58.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60805D58.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60805D58.000 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:14:09 -0000 > Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt I've essentially just added mention of the IPv4 dummy address without citing RFC 7600, which, as Donald noted, is not relevant to this document (except insofar it registers the dummy address). I've also moved some sections, and did some rewriting to Section 4 (previously 5). I'm not happy with Section 4, but I don't see off the top of my head how to rewrite it. -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 21 10:16:22 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A40F33A3002; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:16:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -11.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=V5OEsVob; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=Nr3l7EcF Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y5dR1nxH7wOU; 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Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:16:09 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Juliusz Chroboczek CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org" , "babel-chairs@ietf.org" , "babel@ietf.org" , Donald Eastlake Thread-Topic: Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWs3UxeV5Lm9F3Ck2mywg9qOHeL6rAOroAgAABx3A= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:16:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160458171308.17244.3373983961712478100@ietfa.amsl.com> <87mttr8t2h.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <87mttr8t2h.wl-jch@irif.fr> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: irif.fr; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;irif.fr; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.12.233.180] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ffed6498-f641-4029-50fd-08d904e92807 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4551: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ffed6498-f641-4029-50fd-08d904e92807 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Apr 2021 17:16:09.3455 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: FtBK4bJZuRu6txBL4+rBF7rFdenDFSIC6qsWy/qOOcjw3srFg51DBZEBnalqvbi2cFmEx4dv2Td9Bv6FoEF/BQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4551 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.22, xbe-aln-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:16:18 -0000 Hi Juliusz, Thanks for addressing my comments and the explanation. I have cleared my discuss. Regards, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Juliusz Chroboczek > Sent: 21 April 2021 18:08 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > Cc: The IESG ; draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org; > babel-chairs@ietf.org; babel@ietf.org; Donald Eastlake > Subject: Re: Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific- > 07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 > Thanks for your comments. >=20 > > My specific discuss issue relates to clarifying the indexes of the > 'source' and > > 'route' tables to indicate whether they are replacing the 'prefix-len' > elements > > of the existing 3 tuple indexes, or adding additional elements to the > existing > > index, effectively making them 5 tuple indexes. >=20 > This has been fixed. >=20 > > I might be completely confused, but my understanding is that what is > called the > > "destination prefix" in this document, is effectively what is referred > to as > > the "source" in draft-ietf-babel-rfc6126bis (e.g., in the Route Table i= n > > section 3.2.5), that also happens to be a prefix. Is that right? >=20 > Not quite. The "source" is a data structure that, in the original > protocol, contains an originating router-id and a destination prefix plus > some data used by the loop-avoidance algorithm. Two routes originated by > distinct routers have distinct sources (hence the name); OTOH, if the sam= e > route (same originating router and same prefix) is learnt from two > neighbours, the two routing table entries share a single source. >=20 > This is described in RFC 8966 Section 3.2.5. >=20 > In this document, the "source" data structure is extended with a "source > prefix/plen". Confusion ensues, but it's too late to change the original > protocol's terminology. >=20 > > A further confusion is that this draft seems to sometimes describes > prefixes > > differently from how they are described in the Babel RFC that it is > extending. >=20 > This has been fixed, sorry for that. >=20 > > Note that the route entry contains a source (see sections 2 and > 3.2.5 > > of [BABEL]) which itself contains a source prefix. These are tw= o > > very different concepts that should not be confused. >=20 > > Should this reference be to 3.2.6? >=20 > Arguably both -- the source is described in 3.2.5, while 3.2.6 describes > the route table. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 21 10:26:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA2523A305D; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:26:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X7hPzb1PlBt1; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F82C3A305A; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13LHQ3mZ028807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:26:03 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/82085) with ESMTP id 13LHQ31G024952; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:26:03 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5C60F19E5; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:26:03 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id 3cfcwnagtIpq; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:26:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 389A2F19E1; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:26:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:26:02 +0200 Message-ID: <87im4f8s7p.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9ric?= Vyncke Cc: "The IESG" , draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org, babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, Donald Eastlake In-Reply-To: <87wnsv8x0m.wl-jch@irif.fr> References: <160456880126.24423.3828288743954574173@ietfa.amsl.com> <87wnsv8x0m.wl-jch@irif.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:26:03 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:26:03 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 6080602B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:26:15 -0000 >> Same for reference to RFC 8678. > I am ashamed to say that I have not read this document. Actually, I'd read it, but I'd forgotten. This is a rather complex document, and I fear that citing it might give the reader the impression that the problem is more complicated than it actually is. Also, a large part of this document relies on the "Rule 5.5" proposal, which, as far as I am aware, has not been widely implemented. I'd rather avoid citing it if permitted. -- Juliusz From nobody Wed Apr 21 11:43:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A31B33A328C; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:43:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.617 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.617 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=lXp2uVRF; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=X4nrzAYq Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DYNyPUn1dmPR; 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Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:43:21 +0000 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: Juliusz Chroboczek CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org" , "babel-chairs@ietf.org" , "babel@ietf.org" , Donald Eastlake Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?w4lyaWMgVnluY2tlJ3MgTm8gT2JqZWN0aW9uIG9uIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtYmFi?= =?utf-8?Q?el-source-specific-07:_(with_COMMENT)?= Thread-Index: AQHXNsT2qBaqML0/UEOlJDQsHb+Loqq/OUMAgAA3IAA= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:43:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160456880126.24423.3828288743954574173@ietfa.amsl.com> <87wnsv8x0m.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87im4f8s7p.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <87im4f8s7p.wl-jch@irif.fr> Accept-Language: fr-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.48.21041102 authentication-results: irif.fr; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;irif.fr; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2a02:578:8557:600:c5b5:b093:c1de:6ad3] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6203b41b-a3ab-4187-95b2-08d904f5568c x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: PH0PR11MB4999: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:43:30 -0000 SnVsaXVzeg0KDQpJIHN0aWxsIGhhdmUgdG8gcmVwbHkgdG8geW91ciBwcmV2aW91cyBlbWFpbCAo bGFzdCBpbiwgZmlyc3Qgb3V0ISkgYnV0IG15IGNvbW1lbnRzIHdlcmUgbm90IGJsb2NraW5nIGFu ZCB5b3UgY2FuIGZyZWVseSBpZ25vcmUgdGhlbS4gQnV0LCBUSEFOSyB5b3UgZm9yIHJlcGx5aW5n IHRvIHRoZW0NCg0KT24gdGhpcyBzcGVjaWZpYyBwb2ludCwgSSB3YXMgYWxzbyB1bnN1cmUgd2hl dGhlciBSRkMgODY3OCB3b3VsZCBiZSB1c2VmdWwsIGhlbmNlIG15IHF1ZXN0aW9uIGFib3V0IGl0 DQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCi3DqXJpYw0KDQrvu78tLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0K RnJvbTogSnVsaXVzeiBDaHJvYm9jemVrIDxqY2hAaXJpZi5mcj4NCkRhdGU6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwg MjEgQXByaWwgMjAyMSBhdCAxOToyNg0KVG86IEVyaWMgVnluY2tlIDxldnluY2tlQGNpc2NvLmNv bT4NCkNjOiBUaGUgSUVTRyA8aWVzZ0BpZXRmLm9yZz4sICJkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWJhYmVsLXNvdXJj ZS1zcGVjaWZpY0BpZXRmLm9yZyIgPGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtYmFiZWwtc291cmNlLXNwZWNpZmljQGll dGYub3JnPiwgImJhYmVsLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZyIgPGJhYmVsLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4s ICJiYWJlbEBpZXRmLm9yZyIgPGJhYmVsQGlldGYub3JnPiwgRG9uYWxkIEVhc3RsYWtlIDxkM2Uz ZTNAZ21haWwuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IMOJcmljIFZ5bmNrZSdzIE5vIE9iamVjdGlvbiBv biBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWJhYmVsLXNvdXJjZS1zcGVjaWZpYy0wNzogKHdpdGggQ09NTUVOVCkNCg0K ICAgID4+IFNhbWUgZm9yIHJlZmVyZW5jZSB0byBSRkMgODY3OC4NCg0KICAgID4gSSBhbSBhc2hh bWVkIHRvIHNheSB0aGF0IEkgaGF2ZSBub3QgcmVhZCB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50Lg0KDQogICAgQWN0 dWFsbHksIEknZCByZWFkIGl0LCBidXQgSSdkIGZvcmdvdHRlbi4NCg0KICAgIFRoaXMgaXMgYSBy YXRoZXIgY29tcGxleCBkb2N1bWVudCwgYW5kIEkgZmVhciB0aGF0IGNpdGluZyBpdCBtaWdodCBn aXZlDQogICAgdGhlIHJlYWRlciB0aGUgaW1wcmVzc2lvbiB0aGF0IHRoZSBwcm9ibGVtIGlzIG1v cmUgY29tcGxpY2F0ZWQgdGhhbiBpdA0KICAgIGFjdHVhbGx5IGlzLiAgQWxzbywgYSBsYXJnZSBw YXJ0IG9mIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgcmVsaWVzIG9uIHRoZSAiUnVsZSA1LjUiDQogICAgcHJvcG9z YWwsIHdoaWNoLCBhcyBmYXIgYXMgSSBhbSBhd2FyZSwgaGFzIG5vdCBiZWVuIHdpZGVseSBpbXBs ZW1lbnRlZC4NCg0KICAgIEknZCByYXRoZXIgYXZvaWQgY2l0aW5nIGl0IGlmIHBlcm1pdHRlZC4N Cg0KICAgIC0tIEp1bGl1c3oNCg0K From nobody Wed Apr 21 12:58:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietf.org Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FCF83A349F; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 12:58:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Loganaden Velvindron via Datatracker To: Cc: babel@ietf.org, draft-ietf-babel-yang-model.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <161903511538.9669.14677003191884300057@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Loganaden Velvindron Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 12:58:35 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [babel] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-babel-yang-model-09 X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:58:36 -0000 Reviewer: Loganaden Velvindron Review result: Ready I have reviewed this draft as part of SECDIR. Please treat my comments as any other comment. The draft has good security recommendations and should proceed. From nobody Wed Apr 21 13:02:29 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A12F53A34A8; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:02:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A27TMlaGGWMz; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd32.google.com (mail-io1-xd32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 225B43A12B7; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd32.google.com with SMTP id p8so21897173iol.11; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:02:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Fmall+xBmqrWYgfIHnXGVYigkcOG3mUKJit9PCyCboQ=; b=OuYM+lDkqwij9XQ37bsI1iXRTTomeduwMChxZ3fDV4o+m2bAM5I7XwZgZTBAdTbpfK gzDFQ9KBgwbz0pomtIiSahOUr1jvJ++cFDGud/IX4Xj45thskJh6ZLbqXjgwwOkf8zKq uSLMzsEEHc034Stz9aL+H+sfyGsNUjYZ/Rjmm6feDw8tU8EiOXVg12zHCFp+szVDaELW 8ioZwZeDWOZip04Pi1O8ICKitAXMNNAK6kfS2DT8tCGEX/xDPcY/2JWqDChe5PVrGuCH /IMYY2NQAbFPTGEiAoChWzEaiPH3Ly8jbF0KZ5vYObvPeL8rMl8KdeGYbXmEMomrhMis jw6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Fmall+xBmqrWYgfIHnXGVYigkcOG3mUKJit9PCyCboQ=; b=Xakp22msC7JFjjcM663WE1qP5nnb/d+J6Jynyk38KyWKD1dR3SkBzqe0DXvBADWRg1 xq9WANBlE3b7lJAEilQPeT50vXSEbgAqc8zhqwjhDd7poioVT8rCulAYzEYXFjXtsVW7 HhtpRcnKXEVNaDifVnx5bLhN+g9/lYyqzjqEhPjROlM22S8lPoI+Py0/TSTusYREeJjg GDchaAg+pZbU2gwhTszW7DVclD+RWEpYDSo34kz8XNUd6aC7N2UPMbCfsJ0Hx53HMmBC PU9VVLbXGtULOZVwypyAlXj9cWJYaUx4Y0JpkN5GO3Du6JAVnO0ailxbgxqqBl1/Il/5 ot2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5301+IVBOlpaykbCKOt8YVBqSrX31+JjByRHOXLe8mgC6ILfoqSp F6KSA6qWa5cVcS7RTMUNo1O/GmJcWQQOuUyg4vzpJrEF X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwrkFcMnsEqzcCGQ+Si5WGjzSSWO0cooDzpske91LejC1TTUAZLtHVIbTeQkmF/tfs7F+Zzz8uiwb1tpowo2ho= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:8b09:: with SMTP id k9mr24209252ion.185.1619035343218; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:02:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161902119477.7566.8966155269813261543@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <161902119477.7566.8966155269813261543@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:02:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: Babel at IETF Cc: babel-chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [babel] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt through 5 May X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 20:02:28 -0000 Hi, I don't think there are any current open questions on this draft so I am beginning a WG Last call through Cinco de Mayo. Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Date: Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 12:07 PM Subject: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt To: Cc: A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Babel routing protocol WG of the IETF. Title : IPv4 routes with an IPv6 next-hop in the Babel routing protocol Author : Juliusz Chroboczek Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2021-04-21 Abstract: This document defines an extension to the Babel routing protocol that allows annoncing routes to an IPv4 prefix with an IPv6 next-hop, which makes it possible for IPv4 traffic to flow through interfaces that have not been assigned an IPv4 address. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Apr 21 13:49:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CDA93A3638; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:49:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FY1rcw3JtrQN; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x52c.google.com (mail-pg1-x52c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 145723A3632; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id w10so31102419pgh.5; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:49:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XliiF3JmlRA/4v1yM8ZN0l3vxRy5TjDDYzhwdsyjnFo=; b=nY+ZmNSM6aluIXZpNLQwmYi2FQgJqhqA/ixKo5aG640kZoBz0zTFv95zWQkoFXQud+ ZHX28ntap3/yMHejcp8yqtGlEBfZiH/cIfLWQRmIepClWIDU7071ithbOHj9z1yO5YVa OeafEzbc35fcv1XfN5Ui7RNvbPF5bA3PzcMwlZhRthKIkegQS4gWJPUOQFys3J7HmV4U fQoAH9KVY2UrHVjw8CyMYrvrRdDV2c4q1kxscvZ5D9yUQwWmjPV263ufUcpBucy2LtzQ dye2iA7gE5YODjtgTR3R1YCUqU73KCUbeWbjRz25jEo4D8pq23qStV/O3gRCB+iA9ASy 9Mvg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XliiF3JmlRA/4v1yM8ZN0l3vxRy5TjDDYzhwdsyjnFo=; b=iBtvOQ+o38az1RenMZWsrUFg8DtHIGvY+Obgfh6XasgSvC0xfbb+j8aYFFsbrx5XcN VLea9I/yiuvm0gD1N57PnsoNEBHd/VG8MfCQL/dI1K5HzE5UMF8bCSAbQem1DPcTe3jG NvRMNk4wykt6mmIGCRvbVEX+fg9IRa+/Kvyf0SxUbhfylZRH/nxZEUJY7KR05YBsK7bY m4cW7KCBJ43o/aLdW9RQG4BcP8OvVOKYzNPxJgFcbzGrxmUXsRYap0gWX+2y/k6lk8Jg Mf8ukG/HMnTf/iDfHd1a2wEbycxOFvCbeyyoeM0TsQ+wWl4d5TMrVQ15Ok33d1dR+erd 9jkA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533ff1N9RYp8DxqW4VhpBO0/y22/GT7X4fW8KJ84gKFgBjxa6tgZ fdrQ5JS0T2F6Wd3GC6H0taJPpE1xTjaotAWb2zU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwsIQws3xBbJihqsc8qM2SU1CX1jyc3txwdMD9InApN49Jzae2WwLagI9YbXPCokNAJgpxBPfYxhE6eEAEkqwY= X-Received: by 2002:a65:61a1:: with SMTP id i1mr24218pgv.411.1619038167622; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:49:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161902119477.7566.8966155269813261543@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: David Schinazi Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:49:15 -0700 Message-ID: To: Donald Eastlake Cc: Babel at IETF , babel-chairs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dbe94f05c081b2e7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt through 5 May X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 20:49:36 -0000 --000000000000dbe94f05c081b2e7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I have read the latest revisions of this document, and I believe it is ready for publication. Thanks, David On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 1:02 PM Donald Eastlake wrote: > Hi, > > I don't think there are any current open questions on this draft so I > am beginning a WG Last call through Cinco de Mayo. > > Thanks, > Donald > =============================== > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA > d3e3e3@gmail.com > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: > Date: Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 12:07 PM > Subject: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt > To: > Cc: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Babel routing protocol WG of the IETF. > > Title : IPv4 routes with an IPv6 next-hop in the > Babel routing protocol > Author : Juliusz Chroboczek > Filename : draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt > Pages : 9 > Date : 2021-04-21 > > Abstract: > This document defines an extension to the Babel routing protocol that > allows annoncing routes to an IPv4 prefix with an IPv6 next-hop, > which makes it possible for IPv4 traffic to flow through interfaces > that have not been assigned an IPv4 address. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel > --000000000000dbe94f05c081b2e7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have read the latest revisions of this document,
and= I believe it is ready for publication.

Thanks,
David

On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 1:02 PM Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

I don't think there are any current open questions on this draft so I am beginning a WG Last call through Cinco de Mayo.

Thanks,
Donald
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=C2=A0Donald E. Eastlake 3rd=C2=A0 =C2=A0+1-508-333-2270 (cell)
=C2=A02386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA
=C2=A0d3e3e3@gmail.co= m

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 12:07 PM
Subject: [babel] I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt
To: <i-d-anno= unce@ietf.org>
Cc: <babel@ietf.org<= /a>>

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Babel routing protocol WG of the IETF.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= IPv4 routes with an IPv6 next-hop in the
Babel routing protocol
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Author=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Juli= usz Chroboczek
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-babel-v4viav6-03.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 9
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2021-04-21

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines an extension to the Babel routing protoc= ol that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allows annoncing routes to an IPv4 prefix with an IPv6 next-ho= p,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0which makes it possible for IPv4 traffic to flow through inter= faces
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that have not been assigned an IPv4 address.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ie= tf-babel-v4viav6/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-babel-= v4viav6-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ht= ml/draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Dd= raft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
babel mailing list
babel@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel
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babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2021 21:26:50 -0000 Juliusz: Hi! =C2=A0I hope you are doing well. Thanks for the updates in the text. =C2=A0I am clearing my DISCUSS. Alvaro. From nobody Fri Apr 23 06:07:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 032CC3A1CBC; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 06:07:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q0idUU4Fx8O7; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 06:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D0403A1CB7; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 06:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13ND76jk018264; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:07:06 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFF50D6693; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:07:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id gIATWzzEqstZ; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:07:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D906D668C; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:07:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:07:04 +0200 Message-ID: <8735vhcfpj.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Donald Eastlake Cc: Babel at IETF , babel-chairs In-Reply-To: References: <161902119477.7566.8966155269813261543@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:07:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 6082C67A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 6082C67A.001 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 6082C67A.001 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt through 5 May X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 13:07:14 -0000 > Title : IPv4 routes with an IPv6 next-hop in the Babel routing protocol Donald, do you think we could get AE 4 allocated? It would be great if we could start deploying with the final AE number. Thanks, -- Juliusz From nobody Fri Apr 23 07:00:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietf.org Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21DE43A0B88; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 07:00:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: Donald Eastlake , The IESG , babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, d3e3e3@gmail.com, draft-ietf-babel-source-specific@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <161918640911.19363.7148668012399843695@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 07:00:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [babel] Protocol Action: 'Source-Specific Routing in Babel' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08.txt) X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 14:00:09 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Source-Specific Routing in Babel' (draft-ietf-babel-source-specific-08.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Babel routing protocol Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, John Scudder and Martin Vigoureux. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-source-specific/ Technical Summary Source-specific routing (also known as Source-Address Dependent Routing, SADR) is an extension to traditional next-hop routing where packets are forwarded according to both their destination and their source address. This document describes an extension for source- specific routing to the Babel routing protocol. Working Group Summary Discussion of the draft during WG Last Call extended to one aspect of the rfc6126bis draft but WG consensus supported both this draft and not changing rfc6126bis. Document Quality The quality of the document is good. There are two known implementations: babeld in the currently unreleased 1.9 branch and Toke Høiland-Jørgensen's code in BIRD. Personnel Document Shepherd: Donald Eastlake Responsible Area Director: Martin Vigoureux From nobody Fri Apr 23 07:27:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F2A23A0D77; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.849 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.849 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FLPEF9dEcnWu; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 07:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x12d.google.com (mail-il1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A4E43A0D70; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 07:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id c18so40807226iln.7; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 07:27:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WUpYysvjMtr5e/pm79PJCQOFGdCU9x/93mOuvR0wNQ4=; b=VZ/IR0DD5UzAVnPBSX8V6CYZdo5fq7ebuQ0PtjJy21XcY+GlsFMRNgI7toXbY7VGdJ el0M0KG3GT9Pxqwsyt18h2gOy5uaGdkH1hL+yQVZgCGfpFjlAFAj3VFQoOr3D3BXvH8B aaVQEmld5U6SDkswjm9PsbPaiUOmy2TStYdn1W1cwO3wVjFk4gkQzoqx7F+IWA68pwrq 9fQNj3i5Tz6u7PKRgbpUrSfA7k93fOiHjT5loN1zT/ZI+mu8fmuLCQeBqiHuXOSa51iE EzJOfsW4IG7soKLbn01FVF2W6tFSgWyQq98lOMczJC5LV5brXToylKkcY/LMbZyHVV14 IG+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WUpYysvjMtr5e/pm79PJCQOFGdCU9x/93mOuvR0wNQ4=; b=UGsFjDnkmNwWO0yV6Esnj/7HSHq7X2PU2eVL3cHGn5fum7pre8yVH0ilulB04L4AI6 +y9yoJXWlygRbwac+9Df17rtPZaF3jRNYJjxK19964eyxdtvcTavaA9nPD3gR5vU46AX y1y7WPmCw9JDmSEgj9KKePmvJoH1sl24MTa+79NPs4n8zunGTJwkfEtr1uoNWNRGk17m PgUy48sPirr4eosNqLKaZVpZJev0CvXI1BeqoO07N3maClLP1Ewp9Ot4W5PUMDjuEJaT 24CRgNxqPSeJ1hnMGLdQS6SyCqTfHj/w3SrZ+WkG30ayHHj1BXkiBt+ealHimLfkzuF+ lb6A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530PeWq3FAjXI/2XayS/8jaKp7oOhiXOY/eShPUzDhQNOxcTO2mu 4GMNgiLTawc9R7wWD3cSbzQO12QBUH698XsMAq4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhYabtDMPJR/SodlAIB7m91nzTxSpt4YPUksDhcDzgZS7UfkYmxUzqi09bTpSQFr3ou9oL2PgVi6xZ1fvY0FY= X-Received: by 2002:a92:d68a:: with SMTP id p10mr3186722iln.40.1619188024226; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 07:27:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161902119477.7566.8966155269813261543@ietfa.amsl.com> <8735vhcfpj.wl-jch@irif.fr> In-Reply-To: <8735vhcfpj.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 10:26:53 -0400 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Cc: Babel at IETF , babel-chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-03.txt through 5 May X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 14:27:11 -0000 Hi Juliusz, On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 9:07 AM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > > Title : IPv4 routes with an IPv6 next-hop in the Babel routing protocol > > Donald, do you think we could get AE 4 allocated? It would be great if we > could start deploying with the final AE number. Seems like we should since it is Specification Required and we have a stable draft. I'll work on this. Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > Thanks, > > -- Juliusz From nobody Thu Apr 29 08:12:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietf.org Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F374E3A28B8; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 08:12:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: babel-chairs@ietf.org, babel@ietf.org, d3e3e3@gmail.com, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <161970915296.28431.15832518206900388314@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 08:12:32 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [babel] babel - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 111 X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 15:12:40 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Donald E. Eastlake 3rd, a Chair of the babel working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Babel routing protocol Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Donald Eastlake Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 20 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: bess idr rtgwg nvo3 sfc Technology Overlap: homenet manet rtgarea lpwan People who must be present: Donald E. Eastlake 3rd Russ White Martin Vigoureux Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Apr 29 10:53:17 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89DB63A1076; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:53:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.847 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jugtg3Ioysvt; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com (mail-io1-xd2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22A633A1073; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:53:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id t21so15244987iob.2; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:53:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sSPORWIoJI1nwr641UgCKd9Nj0dZYBOVwT5taNf8jzo=; b=JUHmlFBehB6yMK7ZQleHAFJqEgIvkY+Jb5NiloV142AIpsQHSIyARQDE35WbV84Fcg mLhUV0cyL5V718a/+BA8+3bsRuf3KIwYQswN9gov2WDgtXL8APuLPmgxXKSrSvl1mzt4 Pha3skxIn6J644xUqX0pEgrbf/PXjy9Rs6kxU0bgCE4OAl6ghv4PeLGOfKfGVG5xhtF7 LezWpEWo80Bsbq3Zdm23rbi1AAQ6heQTeBgzADYyDyCsm4gJd+dbDYHwusPdPDGVZgFo h3sYt4kqZOggkT1dvkwUKc54b8D/UH3kilUDpY/Cfqf9C4GGuGZ0b6eJv2m/ZAzxvMnF RAOQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sSPORWIoJI1nwr641UgCKd9Nj0dZYBOVwT5taNf8jzo=; b=jp32Gb1zh1FlFafX1fzrUTlEOjC4EQTD5kob3u3LlajIvOor682rrdeevyZAL9Fagd cNZ4dS7Iu/IT2tLnnGn3C5NjbiWiLkr/+4twowXD849NkNjpfIrlOaVNk50dtgvJn7Cm ecE6dTmT5jIm/yYmHqOG3CSHyTN8r03qe3eaVzRQTJ4m7ekCcqsKQJ8EaBWxAlffYeI2 JAg8p6zmN3p1EL3mo/GIj/8jRg6iht9+Jzbp4zN0kTQzt7QEc9wQ1hTrgtPDXOiK9U8b Vde6w4yh3lIjY4TJxXAnlikwVSCjDTlh45zVZHmfqgmHoouB3xhfueltrySW3e/EkiGg IA5w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5316EhlVyExpKonKERzc4WnrK7Ebvzq9NasAGAkv0k712CjPQ3ip gDGO6fU6UYEqYO22qRRngkxbBRVqjaj6FkZJF0Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw6cdoQ6wU4MriVlXlfCY+D+5UViKP3U+vvAQXGPSVwr+frBCYTQtIHQ09yre9/idalwiJi5m4YVmHk4HVZKF4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:3146:: with SMTP id m6mr483965ioy.158.1619718790696; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:53:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Donald Eastlake Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:53:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: Martin Vigoureux , Babel at IETF Cc: babel-chairs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000027d2a705c1202bc0" Archived-At: Subject: [babel] Babel YANG Model Write-up and IETF Last Call Comment X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 17:53:17 -0000 --00000000000027d2a705c1202bc0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Martin, I have updated the Shepherd write-up on draft-ietf-babel-yang-model. See https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-yang-model/shepherdwriteup/ I notice there is one IETF Last Call comment on this draft (see https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/eTzywSm1Ke5vfs415w9p1wNHYzM/ ) Is it important to post a response to that comment to the IETF Last Call mailing list? Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com --00000000000027d2a705c1202bc0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Martin,

I have updated the Shepherd = write-up on draft-ietf-babel-yang-model. See

Is it im= portant to post a response to that comment to the IETF Last Call mailing li= st?

Thanks,
Donald
=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D
=C2=A0Donald E. Eastlake 3rd =C2=A0 +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
=C2= =A02386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA
=C2=A0d3e3e3@gmail.com
--00000000000027d2a705c1202bc0-- From nobody Thu Apr 29 13:59:54 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0BC83A0E82; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:59:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mgYfxSoiF1hG; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x62c.google.com (mail-pl1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DE173A0E79; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id s20so19612483plr.13; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:59:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=7AtGtftn/Q4e/mvGUAjshNkQq6bfcgFm0te0980I8/o=; b=PnrXAkt/6Zyn5FsT0tjKM338oCxu3w0x2nXcF2T/UO5iGFnSieaX8xxdl/Un9pPCQS H+pwQVGy63EGiFrQxzmRliMhFhT0GBXUPT84yf3bSD68WGAO2oHIbPvhkC5XoPBJ+Nal kModnISNXJWuPdKZoN60jfd38N3iM3y+XGpCWtgT+dt/4iT/P6rAwmW+M8xAyUy0xkJp dd3UQ3ITZBKIyYjprFsFL8y7Jv1WedD3328+tfw1gEa6PF1o82YDsu6pBMrgm6RNvOF8 kEvJ5Sm9KIUP7Tg0XWUZGAY9inP02//UBMCkJLrQ+BDqXnbbCqo13LDRJcVw42LtjZps rs3w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=7AtGtftn/Q4e/mvGUAjshNkQq6bfcgFm0te0980I8/o=; b=VQIcNghJ6Spvhf4L1tQrwQT9UDn/fPIYGxmzGtCwgF0iVj7zCfzYP2wlqtp9h05D4Z CfB8hH+beGYKs6vHC5/i7+8d3tJ87FAqAAadMPhyXtcOzpl10+gA3NGhAKN7+ZKOY6xG vTgcXQzZMltbRz23cj/fqE2gMIOO0JVyXN80v08uNGkgkRpWz8bpEmXvwEQd1ln+flAG 2ujFDVWvi/ckZ9QAQxaT12aJgfBUnb/nPPnN2ktF1pDzpIZ6GuBPYn+rmwBbQnKMkQaf qVwMqP1sBFN8oI2kVPEjoDkEHNhhhn2f7KiQkoNvze1ujxiix8Vz6rmfMG6nb16Cxw3x auCg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531EQhfls7x04K6d05Ah3VWFxILF/syiZi/JGWiDZ7PxmOITb22Y YjuOQLKesads8VqUS+X+mdk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxJ8RcCOt0L2NbnofrW1vwK2AVBccgWs7NV72H9QSBLeAoxxntkXf9bqkTe2BNDTzC2HAyDIQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:e615:: with SMTP id j21mr11424994pjy.43.1619729990061; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5600:5020:5dcf:be7e:bcf4:73b2? ([2601:647:5600:5020:5dcf:be7e:bcf4:73b2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l10sm3078675pjy.42.2021.04.29.13.59.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:59:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: <7A6404FB-1A09-4C6C-9246-5F2DAC336AED@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EC1CD9CD-DE59-4E08-8D8F-AC8CF2D7952F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:59:48 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Martin Vigoureux , Babel at IETF , babel-chairs To: Donald Eastlake References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Babel YANG Model Write-up and IETF Last Call Comment X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 20:59:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EC1CD9CD-DE59-4E08-8D8F-AC8CF2D7952F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Donald, > On Apr 29, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Donald Eastlake = wrote: >=20 > Hi Martin, >=20 > I have updated the Shepherd write-up on draft-ietf-babel-yang-model. = See > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-yang-model/shepherdwrite= up/ = >=20 > I notice there is one IETF Last Call comment on this draft (see > = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/eTzywSm1Ke5vfs415w9p1wNHYz= M/ = ) > Is it important to post a response to that comment to the IETF Last = Call mailing list? I was planning on addressing this as part of other comments I will = receive on the document as it progresses. It is a fairly minor edit. Thanks. >=20 > Thanks, > Donald > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA > d3e3e3@gmail.com = _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_EC1CD9CD-DE59-4E08-8D8F-AC8CF2D7952F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = Donald,

On Apr 29, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Donald Eastlake = <d3e3e3@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Martin,

I have updated the Shepherd write-up on = draft-ietf-babel-yang-model. See
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-yang-model/sh= epherdwriteup/

I notice there is one IETF Last Call comment on this = draft (see
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/eTzywSm1Ke5vfs4= 15w9p1wNHYzM/)
Is it important = to post a response to that comment to the IETF Last Call mailing = list?

I was = planning on addressing this as part of other comments I will receive on = the document as it progresses. It is a fairly minor edit.

Thanks.


Thanks,
Donald
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA
 d3e3e3@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
babel = mailing list
babel@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com





= --Apple-Mail=_EC1CD9CD-DE59-4E08-8D8F-AC8CF2D7952F-- From nobody Thu Apr 29 14:11:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2B773A0FDB; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 14:11:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 69AUtJK4WXjV; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 14:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x134.google.com (mail-il1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 601863A0FDA; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 14:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x134.google.com with SMTP id p15so19305472iln.3; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 14:11:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CP/IV+k82nbQacQOiQVUamXG/5NuxPYfbFPjukpMoSE=; b=Aee05nvpAIMU9zj/LI66i2J1bd0LS8RJdfi9u+UXQi8jlsF1sHFVoIHWx4bBRAZCxJ kfgTJmmGBGgAcwWpq4TViq3IgL8HsPC6+oarVGYI9HGCf/xPJQ4QBS8fobGzBEWnsUkM JN6OAHrkPR9Y6vrlUmd29Ig0/kNg6lH0H1G/IwGxNOjsXHqr8/t5IhuXnhh2FAIekd4f F5f/yKektb0TENeE7t9VjGsxjUEi3ufuP6MLFaYwQUZVFs8hb3LGxFd4ZsRGooSCPRuj xhuJCgQCShhChQPFfKGPWTroOLsapuI5UIB07RCLpiyUbQulx2ARLnl6pI+we9NUnv1X 9AXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CP/IV+k82nbQacQOiQVUamXG/5NuxPYfbFPjukpMoSE=; b=q+8J8Ko8TPaZNsb8069p53o5WBWSO1kn0TfsgOCzSL18Qm2pHMsty7iIW7dhrdK9qB bCP03C0w5UDW1jrBTDQBBs/dOuQOwWElC6IHvyogTU2ZRH7exNxwt8JXYDUQ8gtMSijG 8Db8BV0qLfJFlhsSRSBReIQEbXfRGaejkTxOfFuYcpfnCxzjIaXDXLURdIwqIru/h+xb 1yTgRVpdgILJ40j3TYuENp0Jizg2DxKROggx3uXzYkbq1Cku/P5qbSi4uBcnWnhDHR/c yYkAMsqILE9cMCQhrFMsj5EkjvBILTtX1jBPW/rvFTxhWySSHWy5s+iGEZ/IB3Zb4W6J FGTg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530aUcKCx6b6u4pbffP3HQO/Ib5hd8mKk4HHBtEkaS3MVGMGJgvH G7vXVzeo8mLK0mEnlPtUHZB8MxqdWux36nXM/1k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxgPktcwLzNwfihp7fN+OSQcBJjsvkuniVE6ltKmXYM9u+xgUPZOkZ19Zoeakvp8Oacg0hg9G7v+F6IM8lR6ac= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:12c9:: with SMTP id i9mr1413059ilm.276.1619730712357; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 14:11:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7A6404FB-1A09-4C6C-9246-5F2DAC336AED@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7A6404FB-1A09-4C6C-9246-5F2DAC336AED@gmail.com> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 17:11:41 -0400 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Martin Vigoureux , Babel at IETF , babel-chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Babel YANG Model Write-up and IETF Last Call Comment X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 21:11:57 -0000 Hi Mahesh, On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 4:59 PM Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > > Hi Donald, > > On Apr 29, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Donald Eastlake wrote: > > >Hi Martin, > > >I have updated the Shepherd write-up on draft-ietf-babel-yang-model. See > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-babel-yang-model/shepherdwriteup/ > > >I notice there is one IETF Last Call comment on this draft (see > >https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/eTzywSm1Ke5vfs415w9p1wNHYzM/) > >Is it important to post a response to that comment to the IETF Last Call mailing list? > > > I was planning on addressing this as part of other comments I will receive on the document as it progresses. It is a fairly minor edit. Sure. I didn't think the content of the comment was a problem but it seems good to have a response on record that was copied to the IETF Last Call list. Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > Thanks. > > > Thanks, > Donald > =============================== > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA > d3e3e3@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel > > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com