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From: Volker Hilt <vhilt@dnrc.bell-labs.com>
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Subject: [BXXPwg] BEEP C/C++ implementation
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Are there any beep implementations in C or C++? All I found are
implementations in Java, Python and TCL. If not, is there an effort
going on to develop a C or C++ beep library?

Best regards,

Volker Hilt


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From bxxpwg-admin@lists.invisibleworlds.com  Thu Aug  2 15:24:26 2001
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From: Bill Mills <wmills@invisibleworlds.com>
To: "'Volker Hilt'" <vhilt@dnrc.bell-labs.com>, bxxpwg@invisible.net
Subject: RE: [BXXPwg] BEEP C/C++ implementation
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There is indeed.  It will probably end up on souceforge comparable to
beepcore-java.  I don't think the date is set yet, but "fairly soon now" is
a reasonable statement.

-bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Volker Hilt [mailto:vhilt@dnrc.bell-labs.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:08 AM
To: bxxpwg@invisible.net
Subject: [BXXPwg] BEEP C/C++ implementation


Are there any beep implementations in C or C++? All I found are
implementations in Java, Python and TCL. If not, is there an effort
going on to develop a C or C++ beep library?

Best regards,

Volker Hilt


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From bxxpwg-admin@lists.invisibleworlds.com  Thu Aug  2 15:44:19 2001
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Along similar lines to the previous question -- are there any
implementations of APEX yet?  This is probably an FAQ, but I've not been
able to find any info on the web site about it.

thanks

-- Edd




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From bxxpwg-admin@lists.invisibleworlds.com  Thu Aug  2 16:06:36 2001
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From: Bill Mills <wmills@invisibleworlds.com>
To: "'Edd Dumbill'" <edd@usefulinc.com>, bxxpwg@invisible.net
Subject: RE: [BXXPwg] APEX implementation
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:20:12 -0700 
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Best place to ask this would probably be on the IRC channel #beepnik (I
generally hit irc.openprojects.net).  I know that 'bondolo' is working on
one.

-bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Edd Dumbill [mailto:edd@usefulinc.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 12:43 PM
To: bxxpwg@invisible.net
Subject: [BXXPwg] APEX implementation


Along similar lines to the previous question -- are there any
implementations of APEX yet?  This is probably an FAQ, but I've not been
able to find any info on the web site about it.

thanks

-- Edd




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From bxxpwg-admin@lists.invisibleworlds.com  Thu Aug  2 16:13:07 2001
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Subject: RE: [BXXPwg] APEX implementation
From: Edd Dumbill <edd@usefulinc.com>
To: Bill Mills <wmills@invisibleworlds.com>
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On 02 Aug 2001 13:20:12 -0700, Bill Mills wrote:
> 
> Best place to ask this would probably be on the IRC channel #beepnik (I
> generally hit irc.openprojects.net).  I know that 'bondolo' is working on
> one.
> 

<bondolo>   hello
<edd>   i've got a simple question: has anybody implemented APEX yet?
<bondolo>   i dont know
<bondolo>   just a beep user


curious :-)

I think I'll take this as a "no" then!

-- Edd



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From bxxpwg-admin@lists.invisibleworlds.com  Thu Aug  2 16:40:43 2001
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From: "Kristopher Magnusson" <kris@invisible.net>
To: "Volker Hilt" <vhilt@dnrc.bell-labs.com>, <bxxpwg@invisible.net>
Subject: RE: [BXXPwg] BEEP C/C++ implementation
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hi there. we are getting ready to release beepcore in a c flavor. we will
release a c++ wrapper for beepcore a little while thereafter. in keeping
with our other beepcore releases, beepcore-c will be covered by the blocks
public license. i'll definitely post a notice to this list when it becomes
available.

thanks!

........... kris

Kris Magnusson <kris@invisible.net>
Invisible Worlds, Inc. (htp://invisible.net/)

-----Original Message-----
From: bxxpwg-admin@lists.invisibleworlds.com
[mailto:bxxpwg-admin@lists.invisibleworlds.com]On Behalf Of Volker Hilt
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:08 AM
To: bxxpwg@invisible.net
Subject: [BXXPwg] BEEP C/C++ implementation


Are there any beep implementations in C or C++? All I found are
implementations in Java, Python and TCL. If not, is there an effort
going on to develop a C or C++ beep library?

Best regards,

Volker Hilt


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From bxxpwg-admin@lists.invisibleworlds.com  Thu Aug  2 20:13:31 2001
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From: Bill Mills <wmills@invisibleworlds.com>
To: Bill Mills <wmills@invisibleworlds.com>,
        "'Edd Dumbill'"
	 <edd@usefulinc.com>, bxxpwg@invisible.net
Subject: RE: [BXXPwg] APEX implementation
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:27:43 -0700 
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I discover that I confused JXTA with APEX...  bondolo is working on JXTA,
sorry.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills@invisibleworlds.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 1:20 PM
To: 'Edd Dumbill'; bxxpwg@invisible.net
Subject: RE: [BXXPwg] APEX implementation


Best place to ask this would probably be on the IRC channel #beepnik (I
generally hit irc.openprojects.net).  I know that 'bondolo' is working on
one.

-bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Edd Dumbill [mailto:edd@usefulinc.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 12:43 PM
To: bxxpwg@invisible.net
Subject: [BXXPwg] APEX implementation


Along similar lines to the previous question -- are there any
implementations of APEX yet?  This is probably an FAQ, but I've not been
able to find any info on the web site about it.

thanks

-- Edd




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From bxxpwg-admin@lists.invisibleworlds.com  Thu Aug  2 20:28:09 2001
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To: Bill Mills <wmills@invisibleworlds.com>
cc: "'Edd Dumbill'" <edd@usefulinc.com>, <bxxpwg@invisible.net>
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Just for news - Mike Duigou (bondolo) has implemented a BEEP transport for
JXTA.

	-Gabe

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Bill Mills wrote:

> I discover that I confused JXTA with APEX...  bondolo is working on JXTA,
> sorry.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Mills [mailto:wmills@invisibleworlds.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 1:20 PM
> To: 'Edd Dumbill'; bxxpwg@invisible.net
> Subject: RE: [BXXPwg] APEX implementation
>
>
> Best place to ask this would probably be on the IRC channel #beepnik (I
> generally hit irc.openprojects.net).  I know that 'bondolo' is working on
> one.
>
> -bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edd Dumbill [mailto:edd@usefulinc.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 12:43 PM
> To: bxxpwg@invisible.net
> Subject: [BXXPwg] APEX implementation
>
>
> Along similar lines to the previous question -- are there any
> implementations of APEX yet?  This is probably an FAQ, but I've not been
> able to find any info on the web site about it.
>
> thanks
>
> -- Edd
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BXXPwg mailing list
> BXXPwg@lists.invisible.net
> http://lists.invisible.net/mailman/listinfo/bxxpwg
>
> _______________________________________________
> BXXPwg mailing list
> BXXPwg@lists.invisible.net
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>
> _______________________________________________
> BXXPwg mailing list
> BXXPwg@lists.invisible.net
> http://lists.invisible.net/mailman/listinfo/bxxpwg
>


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From bxxpwg-admin@lists.invisibleworlds.com  Fri Aug  3 01:17:12 2001
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From: "Kristopher Magnusson" <kris@invisible.net>
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Subject: [BXXPwg] "Dot Biz" registry powered by BEEP & Beepcore-C
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I wanted to let the mailing list members know that NeuStar, the "Dot Biz"
registry operator, selected Invisible Worlds and BEEP to power the
distributed application for registering "Dot Biz" domain names. This
represents the first large-scale deployment of BEEP and Beepcore on the
Internet. The press release is at http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/010801/0002.html.

I'm sure everyone can guess that it was always our preference that
Beepcore-C was published as open source software. To their credit, NeuStar
also was quite adamant that the work that they helped subsidize be released
to developers at Beepcore.org. Thanks, NeuStar!

Dr. Rose and the Invisible Worlds team have worked very hard for a number of
months on this project, and it's nice to see the word getting out that BEEP
is ideal for industrial-grade Internet applications.

Have fun with Beepcore! Thanks for your continued support of BEEP!

.......... kris

Kris Magnusson <kris@invisible.net>
Invisible Worlds, Inc., http://invisible.net/
Site Manager, http://beepcore.org

<press_release>

NeuStar Selects Invisible Worlds New Internet Infrastructure
BEEP Technology Enables Fast, Reliable Registry Services

SANTA ROSA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 1, 2001--Today Invisible Worlds
announced its selection by NeuStar, Inc., to develop industrial-strength
Internet infrastructure for the deployment of next generation registry
services. This infrastructure, Beepcore-C, based on the Internet-standard
BEEP framework, will enable NeuStar's eXtensible Registry Protocol (XRP) to
process high volumes of data with the highest degree of interoperability,
reliability, flexibility and security.

``Designed to address the major growth challenges of NeuStar's highly unique
registry services, BEEP is the quantum enabler for industrial-strength
Internet applications beyond the Web,'' said Dr. Marshall T. Rose, general
manager and CTO of Invisible Worlds, and chief designer of BEEP technology.
``BEEP helps designers of new applications and services avoid the
limitations of yesterday's Internet technology.''

NeuStar, based in Washington, D.C., serves the entire communications
industry as a key partner in its trusted, neutral, third-party role for the
North American Numbering Plan Administrator and the Number Portability
Administration Center of Local Number Portability. Combining its premier
service to the communications industry and its neutral position, NeuStar
also manages the CARE Clearinghouse, a Web-enabled mediation, validation and
reporting service and the new Dot Biz registry, the first truly global
business-centric space on the Internet.

``NeuStar selected BEEP as the foundation for XRP because BEEP's advanced
features, high performance, scalability and reliability enable us to process
enormous volumes of data, gain operational efficiencies and improve service
levels,'' said Tom McGarry, Chief of Strategic Technical Initiatives.
``Invisible Worlds was selected to develop Beepcore-C because of the
company's strong track record as a champion of BEEP and its expansion
capabilities for future technology initiatives at NeuStar.''

BEEP, now an Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) standard, enhances new
Internet applications with advanced communications capabilities, improving
performance and efficiency. Invisible Worlds plans to release open source
code for Beepcore-C at http://beepcore.org/. For more information about BEEP
and other protocols based on its framework, visit http://www.invisible.net.

</press_release>



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From beepwg-admin@lists.beepcore.org  Thu Aug 16 00:51:43 2001
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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15 August 2001, Santa Rosa, CA--Invisible Worlds published Beepcore-C, =
an implementation of the BEEP framework written in the C language. =
Beepcore-C is available for immediate CVS access at =
http://sourceforge.net/projects/beepcore-c. Beepcore-C tarballs will be =
available for download soon.

Beepcore-C includes profiles for TLS, SASL/Anon, and SASL/OTP. =
Beepcore-C supports Linux and Solaris as well as Windows NT/2000. =
Beepcore-C ships as a library and can support environments such as =
operating system kernels, daemons, and web servers and browsers. =
Beepcore-C also includes C++ wrappers. And as usual, Beepcore-C ships =
with full source code covered by the Blocks Public License.

Invisible Worlds acknowledges the support of NeuStar in the development =
of Beepcore-C, which will serve as the primary communications engine for =
the NeuLevel "Dot-Biz" registry. Thanks, NeuStar!

......... kris

Kris Magnusson <kris@invisible.net>
Invisible Worlds, Inc. (http://invisible.net/)





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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>15 August 2001, Santa Rosa, =
CA--Invisible Worlds=20
published Beepcore-C, an implementation of the BEEP framework written in =
the C=20
language. Beepcore-C is available for immediate CVS access at <A=20
href=3D"http://sourceforge.net/projects/beepcore-c">http://sourceforge.ne=
t/projects/beepcore-c</A>.=20
Beepcore-C tarballs will be available for download =
soon.<BR><BR>Beepcore-C=20
includes profiles for TLS, SASL/Anon, and SASL/OTP. Beepcore-C supports =
Linux=20
and Solaris as well as Windows NT/2000. Beepcore-C ships as a library =
and can=20
support environments such as operating system kernels, daemons, and web =
servers=20
and browsers. Beepcore-C also includes C++ wrappers. And as usual, =
Beepcore-C=20
ships with full source code covered by the Blocks Public=20
License.<BR><BR>Invisible Worlds acknowledges the support of NeuStar in =
the=20
development of Beepcore-C, which will serve as the primary =
communications engine=20
for the NeuLevel "Dot-Biz" registry. Thanks, NeuStar!<BR><BR>.........=20
kris<BR><BR>Kris Magnusson &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:kris@invisible.net">kris@invisible.net</A>&gt;<BR>Invisibl=
e Worlds,=20
Inc. (<A=20
href=3D"http://invisible.net/)">http://invisible.net/)</A><BR><BR><BR><BR=
></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From beepwg-admin@lists.beepcore.org  Thu Aug 16 16:32:08 2001
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hi. the beepwg mailing list has moved to a new host, all the details are in
the list .sig below.

/mtr


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From beepwg-admin@lists.beepcore.org  Fri Aug 17 19:48:23 2001
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From: Chris Newman <cnewman@iplanet.com>
Subject: Re: [BEEPwg] Beepcore-C Released at SourceForge
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--On Wednesday, August 15, 2001 20:06 -0700 Kristopher Magnusson 
<kris@invisible.net> wrote:
> Beepcore-C includes profiles for TLS, SASL/Anon, and SASL/OTP. Beepcore-C
> supports Linux and Solaris as well as Windows NT/2000. Beepcore-C ships
> as a library and can support environments such as operating system
> kernels, daemons, and web servers and browsers. Beepcore-C also includes
> C++ wrappers. And as usual, Beepcore-C ships with full source code
> covered by the Blocks Public License.

Cool.  Someone actually implemented my SASL OTP draft!  I never did more 
than an on-the-wire prototype, since I work on email protocols where OTP 
just isn't practical (due to short-lived connections in POP/SMTP or 
parallel connections from same user in IMAP).

Any plans to implement SASL/DIGEST-MD5 (which I consider the most important 
hash-based authentication mechanism)?

Perhaps integrate with the open-source SASL C library from CMU?
   <ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/cyrus-mail/>
Then you can share compatible authentication plug-ins.

		- Chris

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From beepwg-admin@lists.beepcore.org  Fri Aug 17 22:10:36 2001
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Chris Newman wrote:
> 
> --On Wednesday, August 15, 2001 20:06 -0700 Kristopher Magnusson
> <kris@invisible.net> wrote:
> > Beepcore-C includes profiles for TLS, SASL/Anon, and SASL/OTP. Beepcore-C
> > supports Linux and Solaris as well as Windows NT/2000. Beepcore-C ships
> > as a library and can support environments such as operating system
> > kernels, daemons, and web servers and browsers. Beepcore-C also includes
> > C++ wrappers. And as usual, Beepcore-C ships with full source code
> > covered by the Blocks Public License.
> 
> Cool.  Someone actually implemented my SASL OTP draft! 

Actually, only the hex: part is implemented. No word: or init-hex: or
init-word: yet.

> I never did more
> than an on-the-wire prototype, since I work on email protocols where OTP
> just isn't practical (due to short-lived connections in POP/SMTP or
> parallel connections from same user in IMAP).

Heh. That would explain why I had to do it myself. :-) I kept thinking
"how can this be an RFC with no implementations out there anywhere?" I
think OPIE is out there too, actually.
 
> Any plans to implement SASL/DIGEST-MD5 (which I consider the most important
> hash-based authentication mechanism)?

I think this one changes the sizes of packets, which is a little
problematic in our environment right now. It would take more
infrastructure in our library.
 
> Perhaps integrate with the open-source SASL C library from CMU?
>    <ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/cyrus-mail/>
> Then you can share compatible authentication plug-ins.

We looked at this too. Unfortunately, this library is undergoing a
restructuring right now, changing the internal APIs. The previous
version was undocumented, and the new version is unstable *and*
undocumented, so I didn't really want to sink a lot of time into putting
OTP into it at this time.

-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand. dnew@san.rr.com
           When was sliced bread invented?
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From beepwg-admin@lists.beepcore.org  Fri Aug 17 22:12:36 2001
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Kristopher,

 > Beepcore-C includes profiles for TLS, SASL/Anon, and SASL/OTP. Beepcore-C
> supports Linux and Solaris as well as Windows NT/2000. Beepcore-C ships
> as a library and can support environments such as operating system
> kernels, daemons, and web servers and browsers. Beepcore-C also includes
> C++ wrappers. And as usual, Beepcore-C ships with full source code
> covered by the Blocks Public License.

Thanks!

I've been browsing the code a bit but I don't see where "Mapping the BEEP
Core onto TCP" http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3081.txt?number=3081 is
implemented.  Did you do that, or do you feel it is unnecessary and/or
aviodable?

Zane


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From beepwg-admin@lists.beepcore.org  Sat Aug 18 11:12:11 2001
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Zane,

In this implemetation the transport mapping is pretty tightly coupled with
the rfc3080
pieces in some ways.  The handling of IO on the tcp connection is located in

    .../beepcore-c/threaded-os/transport/

in the files

    fpoll.c
    fpollmgr.c
    fiostate.c

What is tightly coupled is the handling/generation of the SEQ messages,
which is
managed in

    .../beepcore-c/core/generic/CBEEP.c

along with channel management and message framing.  At the moment the
interface
between the IO routines and the BEEP core routines in CBEEP.c are handled in
a
very signal oriented way.   Take a look at notify_upper and notify_lower,  I
think these
are the right places to send you.

Mark or Darren...  have I steered him wrong?

-bill mills
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zane Thomas" <zane@mabry.com>
To: <bxxpwg@invisible.net>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [BEEPwg] Beepcore-C Released at SourceForge


> Kristopher,
>
>  > Beepcore-C includes profiles for TLS, SASL/Anon, and SASL/OTP.
Beepcore-C
> > supports Linux and Solaris as well as Windows NT/2000. Beepcore-C ships
> > as a library and can support environments such as operating system
> > kernels, daemons, and web servers and browsers. Beepcore-C also includes
> > C++ wrappers. And as usual, Beepcore-C ships with full source code
> > covered by the Blocks Public License.
>
> Thanks!
>
> I've been browsing the code a bit but I don't see where "Mapping the BEEP
> Core onto TCP" http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3081.txt?number=3081 is
> implemented.  Did you do that, or do you feel it is unnecessary and/or
> aviodable?
>
> Zane
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BEEPwg mailing list
> BEEPwg@lists.beepcore.org
> http://lists.beepcore.org/mailman/listinfo/beepwg
>

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From beepwg-admin@lists.beepcore.org  Sat Aug 18 11:23:26 2001
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> Cool.  Someone actually implemented my SASL OTP draft!  I never did more
> than an on-the-wire prototype, since I work on email protocols where OTP
> just isn't practical (due to short-lived connections in POP/SMTP or
> parallel connections from same user in IMAP).

actually, all three beepcore implementations (tcl, java, c) do sasl otp...


> Any plans to implement SASL/DIGEST-MD5 (which I consider the most
important
> hash-based authentication mechanism)?

it's on the list, although darren's response has the most info...

/mtr


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From beepwg-admin@lists.beepcore.org  Sat Aug 18 21:27:31 2001
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--On Friday, August 17, 2001 17:55 -0700 Darren New <dnew@san.rr.com> wrote:
>> I never did more
>> than an on-the-wire prototype, since I work on email protocols where OTP
>> just isn't practical (due to short-lived connections in POP/SMTP or
>> parallel connections from same user in IMAP).
>
> Heh. That would explain why I had to do it myself. :-) I kept thinking
> "how can this be an RFC with no implementations out there anywhere?" I
> think OPIE is out there too, actually.

I did the work primarily to deprecate the SKEY mechanism in RFC 2222 (so 
SASL can go to draft standard status), although OTP is quite useful for 
scenarios where connections are long-lived and the client tends to get 
pretty broad access to server facilities through the protocol (e.g., 
telnet).  OTP is a reasonable choice for a server which _only_ runs 
long-lived BEEP connections, but I think DIGEST-MD5 would be a better 
choice.

Corporate sites tend to care more about user/password management than 
security in my experience.  Most large corporate and ISP sites use LDAP to 
manage users, but OTP is impractical for that scenario since LDAP isn't 
designed for frequent updates.  So OTP won't deploy at most large sites 
today.  If the standards community unites behind DIGEST-MD5 and work to get 
it integrated with LDAP is done right, then we might be able to get it 
deployed at corporate sites, which would be a big improvement over the 
current defacto standard of plaintext passwords.

I know the DIGEST-MD5 protocol is a bit ugly thanks to its HTTP digest 
roots, but we need a cross-protocol alternative to plaintext passwords, so 
we needed buy-in from all the application communities (HTTP, LDAP, email, 
etc).

>> Any plans to implement SASL/DIGEST-MD5 (which I consider the most
>> important hash-based authentication mechanism)?
>
> I think this one changes the sizes of packets, which is a little
> problematic in our environment right now. It would take more
> infrastructure in our library.

The security layer in DIGEST-MD5 is optional, so a first cut without it 
would be great (indeed we haven't released the security layer support for 
iPlanet Messaging Server yet).  But I think the security layer is worth the 
effort eventually, since it provides a useful speed vs. security tradeoff 
relative to TLS encrypted sessions.

		- Chris

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From beepwg-admin@lists.beepcore.org  Sun Aug 19 13:38:10 2001
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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:48:48 -0400

Hey ya'll,

Just to add my two cents, I'd like to see the SASL EXTERNAL profile added to
Beepcore. I wouldn't anticipate that this would be too technically
challenging, just mapping the TLS session credentials to the SASL. With a
SASL EXTERNAL profile in place, Beep applications that use TLS for transport
security could be written to use the standard SASL authentication layer.

Cheers,
Ben

> Ben Feinstein
>   Software Development Engineer, R & D
>   W: xxx.xxx.xxxx F: xxx.xxx.xxxx M: 678.772.4126
>   8302 Dunwoody Pl., Suite 320, Atlanta, GA 30350 www.guardent.com
> _____________________________________________________
> G U A R D E N T
>   Enterprise Security and Privacy Programs
> 
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Subject: Re: [BEEPwg] Beepcore-C Released at SourceForge
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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:48:15 -0400 (EDT)

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Darren New wrote:

> > Perhaps integrate with the open-source SASL C library from CMU?
> >    <ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/cyrus-mail/>
> > Then you can share compatible authentication plug-ins.
>
> We looked at this too. Unfortunately, this library is undergoing a
> restructuring right now, changing the internal APIs. The previous
> version was undocumented, and the new version is unstable *and*
> undocumented, so I didn't really want to sink a lot of time into putting
> OTP into it at this time.

Hi,

I think you might be being a bit unfair with your assessment of the Cyrus
SASL library.  Neither SASLv1 or SASLv2 are currently undocumented from
the application programmer side.  Granted, the documentation is not the
best in the world, but it's certainly not nonexistent.  Our next release
of SASLv2 (hopefully later this week) will also include a brief plugin
writer's guide, which should be enough to get started.  To date, there
hasn't really been much interest in developing expansive documentation for
plugin writers because, well, there aren't that many plugins to write.
Certainly we are willing to assist anyone in writing a mechanism, and the
PLAIN and ANONYMOUS plugins that are included in Cyrus SASL are also good
starting points to look at.

As far as SASLv2 being unstable, yes, we are currently catagorizing our
releases as beta-quality.  The API, however, is essentially fixed at this
point, so any development against the library should not break in future
releases.  In fact, we've completed porting Cyrus IMAPd to the new library
(though have done no release of this code as of yet).  We've also talked
to Sendmail, who are looking at porting 8.13 to use SASLv2.  As of now,
any development of new applications against the Cyrus SASL should happen
against SASLv2, which features much improved memory management and
handling of client-send-first and server-send-last situations (as well as
many other features).

I'd like to finish by saying that we'd be excited about including an OTP
plugin in our distribution, and would be willing to help in any we could.

-Rob

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Rob Siemborski | Andrew Systems Group * Cyert Hall 235 * 412-CMU-TREK
               | Cyrus SASL Developer, /usr/contributed Gatekeeper

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From: Darren New <dnew@san.rr.com>
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To: Rob Siemborski <rjs3@andrew.cmu.edu>
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Subject: Re: [BEEPwg] Beepcore-C Released at SourceForge
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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:13:43 -0700
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Rob Siemborski wrote:
> I think you might be being a bit unfair with your assessment of the Cyrus
> SASL library.  Neither SASLv1 or SASLv2 are currently undocumented from
> the application programmer side.  Granted, the documentation is not the
> best in the world, but it's certainly not nonexistent. 

No, it looks decent. It's just that if I'm doing the plug-ins, I'd want
to know what it's supposed to do. Code is not documentation, in spite of
Open Source ;-)

> Our next release
> of SASLv2 (hopefully later this week) will also include a brief plugin
> writer's guide, which should be enough to get started.

That would be very helpful, yes.

> To date, there
> hasn't really been much interest in developing expansive documentation for
> plugin writers because, well, there aren't that many plugins to write.

It doesn't have to be extensive. It just has to be something better than
"reverse engineer 800 lines of C code to try to figure out what it does,
then make your code do the same thing, only different." :-) Especially
with beta-release code, where a bug in the code *becomes* a bug in the
specification.

For example, one of the stumbling blocks of using PLAIN or ANONYMOUS as
a starting point was the fact that neither of those actually has a
custom password database, and neither of those changes that database
upon login. Nor do they require any sort of locking. How am I *supposed*
to support this? Do any of the other plug-ins support this sort of
stuff? Without documentation, it's difficult to decide how useful the
library actually is from that point of view.

> Certainly we are willing to assist anyone in writing a mechanism, and the
> PLAIN and ANONYMOUS plugins that are included in Cyrus SASL are also good
> starting points to look at.

I see that my message spoke in the present tense. That was indeed
inaccurate.

At the time I had to make the decision, the concensus from the Cyrus
supporters was "wait for the API to settle." Certainly, *now* the API is
fixed, and *soon* there will be some docuemtation, but at the time I
made the decision a couple of months ago, this wasn't the case. We were
under contractual deadlines, so waiting for the Cyrus stuff to stabilize
wasn't worthwhile at the time. FWIW, a very similar process occurred
with Apache, so you're in good company. ;-)

Note that I'm not bashing the Cyrus stuff in any way. It just wasn't
appropriate for us at the time we had to make the decision. 
 
> I'd like to finish by saying that we'd be excited about including an OTP
> plugin in our distribution, and would be willing to help in any we could.

Perhaps eventually we will incorporate Cyrus into our BEEP libraries.

-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand. dnew@san.rr.com
           When was sliced bread invented?
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