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Subject: [BEEPwg] Any thoughts on BEEP over MPI?
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I'm trying to figure out if MPI is a general enough message passing
protocol that you could implement BEEP over it, and whether it would
be a good idea. In particular, whether MPI could be faster than TCP.

Any pointers or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Sam

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From: Marshall Rose <mrose@dbc.mtview.ca.us>
Subject: Re: [BEEPwg] Any thoughts on BEEP over MPI?
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 09:10:41 -0700
To: Sam Roberts <sroberts@uniserve.com>
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> I'm trying to figure out if MPI is a general enough message passing
> protocol that you could implement BEEP over it, and whether it would
> be a good idea. In particular, whether MPI could be faster than TCP.
>
> Any pointers or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

MPI = http://www-unix.mcs.anl.gov/mpi/standard.html ??? or something  
else?

/mtr

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Subject: Re: [BEEPwg] Any thoughts on BEEP over MPI?
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Quoting mrose@dbc.mtview.ca.us, on Sun, Apr 09, 2006 at 09:10:41AM -0700:
> >I'm trying to figure out if MPI is a general enough message passing
> >protocol that you could implement BEEP over it, and whether it would
> >be a good idea. In particular, whether MPI could be faster than TCP.
> >
> >Any pointers or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> MPI = http://www-unix.mcs.anl.gov/mpi/standard.html ??? or something  
> else?

Sorry, yes, that MPI.

Sam

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Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 14:24:59 -0400
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Marshall Rose wrote:

>> I'm trying to figure out if MPI is a general enough message passing
>> protocol that you could implement BEEP over it, and whether it would
>> be a good idea. In particular, whether MPI could be faster than TCP.
>>
>> Any pointers or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> MPI = http://www-unix.mcs.anl.gov/mpi/standard.html ??? or something  
> else?
>
Very odd thought.

MPI is used widely as a message-passing API (particularly w/ C,C++ and 
Fortran) for high performance computing HPC). The synchronous (2-way) 
MPI is used much more widely than the 1-way (remote memory read/write) 
enabled version. It supports user-space synchronous message-passing. 
(There is also support, using immediate/nonblocking mode for 
asynchronous messaging.) The bulk of MPI is oriented towards supporting 
collective operations (e.g. all reduce) over a group of such processes 
participating in point to point interactions with each other (grouped 
together in a communicator). Not sure this is particularly relevant for 
BEEP.

Why would you want to do this? Perhaps what you might be after is that 
often HPC clusters are built over extremely high-performance 
interconnects that are non-IP-based. For instance, ARMCI and LAPI, based 
on infiniband/quadrics/myrinet/IBM Federation switches  and other 
network I/O cards

 http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/nieplocha99armci.html
 http://www.emsl.pnl.gov/docs/global/papers/lapi.pdf

(There is also GASNet, http://gasnet.cs.berkeley.edu/)

So you might consider layering on top of these.

What are you really after?

Best,
Vijay


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Subject: Re: [BEEPwg] Any thoughts on BEEP over MPI?
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Quoting vijay@saraswat.org, on Sun, Apr 09, 2006 at 02:24:59PM -0400:
> Marshall Rose wrote:
> 
> >>I'm trying to figure out if MPI is a general enough message passing
> >>protocol that you could implement BEEP over it, and whether it would
> >>be a good idea. In particular, whether MPI could be faster than TCP.
> >>
> >>Any pointers or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >
> >MPI = http://www-unix.mcs.anl.gov/mpi/standard.html ??? or something  
> >else?
> >
> Very odd thought.
> 
> MPI is used widely as a message-passing API (particularly w/ C,C++ and 
> Fortran) for high performance computing HPC). The synchronous (2-way) 
> MPI is used much more widely than the 1-way (remote memory read/write) 
> enabled version. It supports user-space synchronous message-passing. 
> (There is also support, using immediate/nonblocking mode for 
> asynchronous messaging.) The bulk of MPI is oriented towards supporting 
> collective operations (e.g. all reduce) over a group of such processes 
> participating in point to point interactions with each other (grouped 
> together in a communicator). Not sure this is particularly relevant for 
> BEEP.

> Why would you want to do this? Perhaps what you might be after is that 
> often HPC clusters are built over extremely high-performance 
> interconnects that are non-IP-based. For instance, ARMCI and LAPI, based 
> on infiniband/quadrics/myrinet/IBM Federation switches  and other 
> network I/O cards

Yes, exactly. Its not me in particular. I was making a "hallway pitch"
to consider using BEEP to replace parts of the proprietary inter-machine
protocols used by our application, and I got a bit of traction, but I
keep hearing about a long-term goal of "using MPI because it will be
faster than the TCP we currently use".

> http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/nieplocha99armci.html
> http://www.emsl.pnl.gov/docs/global/papers/lapi.pdf
> 
> (There is also GASNet, http://gasnet.cs.berkeley.edu/)
> 
> So you might consider layering on top of these.

I think there is some consideration of MPI, because its thought that it
will theoretically allow us access in an API independent way to fast
system interconnects.

> What are you really after?

I think its unlikely that MPI is a general purpose "fast" way of getting
asynchronous messages between nodes, and I'd like to nip in the bud any
suggestion that we can't consider BEEP because we'll be using MPI some
time in the future. Or alternatively, be able to say that BEEP could run
over MPI if we ever needed it to.

Thanks a lot for your comments.

Sam

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From: Francis Brosnan Blazquez <francis@aspl.es>
To: BEEPwg <beepwg@lists.beepcore.org>, BEEP <beepbuilders@lists.beepcore.org>
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Organization: Advanced Software Production Line, S.L.
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:00:21 +0200
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Subject: [BEEPwg] [ANN] Vortex Library 0.8.11 is ready!
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       ###########################################
       ## Vortex Library 0.8.11 Stable Release  ##
       ###########################################

Release note
~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Advanced Software Production Line is proud to announce the Vortex
  Library 0.8.11 availability: an open source "BEEP Core" protocol
  implementation written in C, mapped onto TCP/IP.

  Vortex Library has been developed inside the Af-Arch project as its
  data transport layer.

  Vortex Library is a stable and robust application protocol
  development toolkit. Currently it is running under Microsoft Windows
  and GNU/Linux platforms.

  Check out the following links to get ready with Vortex Library:

    - http://vortex.aspl.es=20
      [Vortex Library homepage]
=20
    - http://www.sf.net/projects/vortexlibrary
      [Sources and Win32 binaries]

    - http://fact.aspl.es
      [Af-Arch homepage where Vortex Library is being developed]

    - http://www.beepcore.org
      [BEEP Core community web site]

    - http://xml.aspl.es
      [Axl Library, XML 1.0 implementation]
   =20
The release in short
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  A new library have been developed to disable LibXML-2.0 dependency:
  Axl Library. Now Vortex Library have its own XML toolkit enabling to
  produce better tailored XML solutions, especially, those profiles
  that requires XML for its function.

  A complete XML-RPC profile implementation have been added.

Changes since 0.8.11
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  This is a short release note, for full details check:=20

  http://lists.aspl.es/pipermail/vortex/2006-April/000016.html

About Us
~~~~~~~~

  Advanced Software Production Line is leading the Af-Arch project: a
  complete framework to develop distributed application to manage
  enterprise process.

  Af-Arch project relies on Vortex Library to exchange data between
  its distributed nodes.

  Advanced Software Production Line also provides GNU/Linux support
  and consulting services on how organization can introduce GNU/Linux
  inside its process, making other platforms to interact with
  GNU/Linux.

  Contact us, using English or Spanish, to get commercial support
  and/or BEEP based development services.

  You can reach us:

       http://www.aspl.es - info@aspl.es

  We hope Vortex Library help you. Enjoy Vortex Library! =20

--
Francis Brosnan Bl=E1zquez           - francis@aspl.es
Advanced Software Production Line  - http://www.aspl.es
28th Apr 2006, Madrid (Spain)
 =20




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From: Marshall Rose <mrose@dbc.mtview.ca.us>
Subject: Re: [BEEPwg] [ANN] Vortex Library 0.8.11 is ready!
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:18:39 +0200
To: Francis Brosnan Blazquez <francis@aspl.es>
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>   Advanced Software Production Line is proud to announce the Vortex
>   Library 0.8.11 availability: an open source "BEEP Core" protocol
>   implementation written in C, mapped onto TCP/IP.

congrats!

/mtr

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Subject: Re: [BEEPwg] [ANN] Vortex Library 0.8.11 is ready!
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El vie, 28-04-2006 a las 17:18 +0200, Marshall Rose escribi=F3:
> congrats!

Thanks Marshall!!

>=20
> /mtr
>=20
--=20
Francis Brosnan Blazquez <francis@aspl.es>
Advanced Software Production Line, S.L.


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