From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 19 01:04:14 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF6B3A67F5 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:04:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_93=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LBJENNTC2R9r for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:04:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 038AA3A693D for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:04:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78812805C8; Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:03:58 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from dolphin.aspl.es (unknown [212.170.183.66]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFBBE277CDD; Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:03:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dolphin.aspl.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C94740FA; Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:01:34 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at dolphin.aspl.es Received: from dolphin.aspl.es ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (dolphin.aspl.es [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eTErfH-74fJk; Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:01:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.132] (barracuda [10.0.0.4]) by dolphin.aspl.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAEA1740F8; Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:01:29 +0100 (CET) From: Francis Brosnan Blazquez To: BEEPwg X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at dolphin.aspl.es X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at dolphin.aspl.es X-BeenThere: vortex@lists.aspl.es X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Organization: Advanced Software Production Line, S.L. Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:03:43 +0100 Message-Id: <1227085423.23603.96.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.499, requerido 6, BAYES_00 -2.60, RDNS_NONE 0.10), cc: BEEP Subject: [beepwg] [Vortex] [ANN] Vortex Library 1.0.16 '10.000 Days' release is ready! X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org ################################################### ## Vortex Library 1.0.16 ## ## "10.000 Days release" ## ################################################### Release note ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Advanced Software Production Line is proud to announce the Vortex Library 1.0.16 "10.000 Days" release availability: an open source "BEEP Core" protocol implementation written in C, mapped onto TCP/IP. Vortex Library has been developed inside the Af-Arch project as its data transport layer. Vortex Library is a stable and robust application protocol development toolkit. Currently it is running under Microsoft Windows and GNU/Linux platforms. Check out the following links to get ready with Vortex Library: - http://www.aspl.es/vortex [Vortex Library homepage] - http://www.sf.net/projects/vortexlibrary [Sources and Win32 binaries] - http://fact.aspl.es [Af-Arch homepage where Vortex Library is being developed] - http://www.beepcore.org [BEEP Core community web site] - http://www.aspl.es/xml [Axl Library, XML 1.0 implementation] The release in short ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ General API update to apply axl-bool-removal-02 change notification which, in general terms, improves C++ usability and makes already existing C users to keep on having the same behavior. Added support to allow buggy BEEP peers to use 0 as first MSG no number on channel 0 (can be controlled via API), support to disable SEQ frame generation (useful for tuning profiles). Updated vortex_channel_close to block the caller until the channel is closed if a close in transit is detected (rather returning immediately with "channel closed"). Several bugs were fixed and integrated into the regression test to check solution applied. All fixings and improvements were also available on Vortex Library 1.1 repository. Change notifications ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [1] vortex-conn-on-close-02 http://lists.aspl.es/pipermail/vortex/2008-October/000724.html [2] axl-bool-removal-02 http://lists.aspl.es/pipermail/vortex/2008-November/000743.html Thanks to.. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Balazs Tirpak (reported wrong delivery frame handling for channels with serialize flag activated). Martin Huter (helped to check and reported boolean API problem on Axl Library and Vortex Library for C++ users, provided a patch for a rare connection error condition with 2.4 linux kernels) Mikhail Dmitrievsky (reported and provided a fix for a wrong internal buffer size update at the vortex sequencer module). Changes since 1.0.15 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * [fix] Back ported support to cancel vortex_channel_wait_reply and vortex_channel_get_reply operations under close connection condition from 1.1 releases. * [fix] Fixed compilation errors on windows due to casting void* with integers inside the same expression. Fixed applied to 1.0/1.1. * [fix] CHANGE-NOTIFY: Making vortex_connection_set_on_close and _full version to return void (since they were returning always NULL). Updated vortex_connection_remove_on_close_full to also require the user data pointer used to install the handler. Fix applied according to vortex-conn-on-close-01. * [fix] Flagging vortex_sasl_configure_current_properties as private (it was marked as public). Updated libvortex.def file. * [new] Updated vortex xml-rpc API to include two new functions to update reference counting for XmlRpcArray and XmlRpcStruct instances. API added: - vortex_xml_rpc_struct_ref - vortex_xml_rpc_array_ref Updated internal implementation to make destroy functions to check reference counters. Fixed copy functions to use this support. Fixed applied 1.0/1.1. * [new] Updated vortex reader API to allow configuring protocol checks making it possible to accept messages with number 0 for channel 0. API added: - vortex_reader_allow_channel0_starting_from_0 * [fix] Fixed wrong handling of frames received, having the channel with serialize flag activated, under contexts where mixed replies (ANS..NUL/RPY) types are used to replies messages received, causing some frames to be retained for delivery. Bug reported by Balazs Tirpak. Fixed and added a regression test to reproduce problem and check the fix (test_02k). Imported fix into 1.1 series. * [fix] Flagging vortex_channel_cleanup as internal. (1.0/1.1). * [fix] Starting to apply axl-bool-removal-02 change notification updating xml-rpc-gen implementation. Applied change on 1.0/1.1. * [fix] Fixed bug causing to not properly notify reply written in the case the listener side issue a MSG and the initiator reply with ANS series ended by NUL. Fix applied to 1.0/1.1 * [fix] Making vortex tunnel implementation to disable SEQ frame generation during handshake to avoid introducing unexpected information during the connection reset. Applied to 1.0/1.1 * [fix] Improved checks performed during the channel and connection negotiation for TUNNEL profile. Applied to 1.0/1.1 * [fix] Updated error handling on TLS implementation to show full error stack provided by OpenSSL (the proper manner to debug TLS failures). Applied change to 1.0/1.1 * [fix] Disabled SEQ frame generation during TLS negotiation to avoid producing noise in the middle of the connection reset. Applied change to 1.0/1.1 * [fix] Applied update to remove bool type replaced by int as defined by axl-bool-removal-02. Fix applied to 1.0/1.1. * [fix] Applied change to XML-RPC implementation axl-bool-removal-02. (1.0/1.1). * [new] Updated connection API to include two new functions that allows to disable SEQ frame generation and to check current status. This is useful in the case a tuning profile is being developed to avoid introducing "noise" during the session reset. API added (1.0/1.1): - vortex_connection_seq_frame_updates - vortex_connection_seq_frame_updates_status * [fix] Making internal vortex_connection_do_sanity_check to also check if the socket looks ok. Applied (1.0/1.1). * [fix] Making replaced calls to inet_ntoa with thread safe version vortex_support_inet_ntoa. API added (1.0/1.1): - vortex_support_inet_ntoa * [fix] Added additional check during wait conditions, inside vortex connection module where TCP connect is signaled but the connection is broken (really rare case under 2.4 linux kernels with older glibc version. Fixed and reported by Martin Huter). * [fix] Applying axl-bool-removal-02 changes to vortex support module (1.0/1.1). * [fix] Added internal check inside mime processing for frame received to avoid processing SEQ frames (though it should never reach this point). Applied 1.0/1.1. * [fix] Making vortex listener on ready notification to use thread safe inet_ntoa to notify host allocated by the listener. * [fix] Committing more updates to both branches (1.0/1.1) due to axl-bool-removal-02. * [fix] Flagging vortex_channel_is_empty_pending_message as public (1.0/1.1). * [new] Updated vortex hash memory handling to provide reference counting support. Updated vortex_hash_create and vortex_hash_destroy to take into consideration reference counting. Added new functions to control reference counting (1.0/1.1): - vortex_hash_ref - vortex_hash_unref Added new function to lock the caller until some change is detected on a hash. API added (1.0/1.1): - vortex_hash_lock_until_changed * [new] Making vortex_channel_close to lock the caller in the case that the channels is already in close process (due to incoming accepted close msg), returning the caller after the channel is completely closed rather returning immediately (1.0/1.1). * [fix] Fixed VortexConnectionOnChannelUpdate documentation. * [fix] Cleaning vortex sequencer code. Applied 1.0/1.1 * [fix] Fixed wrong vortex sequencer internal sending buffer resizing in the case the size requested is twice actual size allocated. Reported by Mikhail Dmitrievsky. Fixed on 1.0/1.1. Added regression test to check the fix introduced. * [fix] Nullify connection reference from channel on connection close to avoid channel references to access to a closed and deallocated connection. Applied 1.0/1.1 * [fix] Ensured all memory is deallocated for pending messages that were queued due to channel stale status, under situations where the connection is suddenly lost. Applied fix and added regression test to check this (test_02m2). (1.0/1.1). * [fix] Making vortex_channel_get_reply to allow returning content even in the case the channel reference received is NULL or the connection is closed, under situations that pending elements are available. Updated code to avoid installing the close connection detection in the case the connection is already broken. (1.0/1.1). * [fix] General update on Makefile.win files (1.0/1.1) to reduce the resulting library size. * [fix] Updated vortex_channel_new_full/v documentation to reflect that profile_content and profile_content_format already places the CDATA declaration. About Us ~~~~~~~~ Advanced Software Production Line provides GNU/Linux support and consulting services to help organization to introduce GNU/Linux inside its process. Contact us, using English or Spanish, to get commercial support and/or BEEP based development services. You can reach us: http://www.aspl.es - info@aspl.es We hope Vortex Library help you. Enjoy Vortex Library! -- Francis Brosnan Blázquez - francis@aspl.es Advanced Software Production Line - http://www.aspl.es 14th nov 2008, Madrid (Spain) _______________________________________________ Vortex mailing list Vortex@lists.aspl.es http://lists.aspl.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vortex From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 00:30:21 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC97A28C1D8 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:30:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, X_IP=3.177] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QMrxPHPGA8XF for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF7428C1C8 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:30:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CEA32CD693; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:30:12 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from yx-out-2122.google.com (yx-out-2122.google.com [74.125.44.24]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 579352D68B8 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:58:53 +0100 (CET) Received: by yx-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 8so61059yxj.47 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:58:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.132.14 with SMTP id f14mr379040and.17.1227657532171; Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:58:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:58:52 -0800 (PST) X-IP: 198.135.207.129 User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-Via: 1.1 ACDCISA2 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1b1) Gecko/20081007 Firefox/3.1b1,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> From: Martin Thomson To: beepwg@beepcore.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=0.578, requerido 6, BAYES_00 -2.60, X_IP 3.18), X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:30:10 +0100 Subject: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Hi all, At the 73rd IETF meeting in Minneapolis, I talked to Lars Eggert, who has agreed to sponsor my asynchronous channels draft. This means that, pending review, this document will be published as a standards track RFC. If you have any feedback on this document, I'd appreciate it if you could send that feedback to this list, or to me directly. Regards, Martin From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 00:49:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 665B928C1E4 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:49:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GbbrAYK+GVjw for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:49:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9733028C1AA for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:49:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF49A2CE374; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:49:05 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from dolphin.aspl.es (unknown [212.170.183.66]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C082CE361 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:48:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dolphin.aspl.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11AA2740E8; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:47:57 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at dolphin.aspl.es Received: from dolphin.aspl.es ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (dolphin.aspl.es [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1o5jwqgz3Sj6; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:47:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.132] (barracuda [10.0.0.4]) by dolphin.aspl.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163BD740D6; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:47:53 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status From: Francis Brosnan Blazquez To: Martin Thomson In-Reply-To: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Advanced Software Production Line, S.L. Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:48:52 +0100 Message-Id: <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.499, requerido 6, BAYES_00 -2.60, RDNS_NONE 0.10), cc: beepwg@beepcore.org X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Hi Martin, The draft looks good to me. Really interesting work. Congratulations! -- Francis Brosnan Blazquez Advanced Software Production Line, S.L. From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 08:01:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0961928C171 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:01:12 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Cc" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id St6vBCU0yb3u for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:01:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D8028C132 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:01:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E2A02CE44D; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:00:58 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from yard.public.resource.org (yard.public.resource.org [192.101.98.172]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADBF52D930D for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:52:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])id mAQFpwxG022021; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:51:59 -0800 From: Marshall Rose To: Francis Brosnan Blazquez In-Reply-To: <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> Subject: Re: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> Message-Id: <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:51:58 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.599, requerido 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60), X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:00:56 +0100 cc: beepwg@beepcore.org cc: Martin Thomson X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org +1 On Nov 26, 2008, at 00:48 , Francis Brosnan Blazquez wrote: > Hi Martin, > > The draft looks good to me. Really interesting work. Congratulations! > > -- > Francis Brosnan Blazquez > Advanced Software Production Line, S.L. > From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 10:18:11 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F59928C246 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:18:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Mb2dYVaBKIz for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:18:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAFB428C249 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85FE12DA694; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:17:42 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.172]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AFDA2DBA40 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:17:28 +0100 (CET) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so570517wfc.14 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:17:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=SVVRHEbhPAIvLR0PyKLIHPLQa6oKsBBkUVKd5pn2dSw=; b=kCye9LoDqrmLioZwNjcr8bKcLL+yRMb+XLnv+Nm9uBWcCQEBhi3cTcCqKfflr5Y4fn NvlEsxW1v9HzIMIrW/+SA5lD12UBe1imkVlLkndN0NhLnD/TOOnYqZArwdEvLIU6H5sH ZvX5hjJBnlc+dHnKU580Z48TArg4wreWggVOA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=NOBiYdfWhm3vCyTjX8BKNwwtsKmCYOJPpiy6nPI8MND2D2nQLXJg6iJRrgx8PpbUep OmYrb2VB1WlDnNHcf9UxzfUe1KVFJNzPp2maG5I3a6+i9AC1WSJU66GaoYQblcKWoz/H KNC9Yzg0p6Emc0mVg2UsLSJ6e7PXrZFPDxZjE= Received: by 10.142.84.5 with SMTP id h5mr2666837wfb.155.1227723447569; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:17:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.98.3 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:17:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:17:27 -0800 From: "Sam Roberts" To: beepwg@beepcore.org Subject: Re: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status In-Reply-To: <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.599, requerido 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60), X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org -1 I am unconvinced of the value of this draft, for three reasons: a - This draft describes how to build into BEEP something you can already do with BEEP (several ways). I can write a trivial example using vortex that implements the motivating use-case for those unconvinced. b - BEEP adoption suffers from perceived complexity. I don't personally think it is more complex than it has to be, but it would be better to document how to use what it offers than to extend it. c - BEEP adoption suffers from non-interoperability of existing toolkits. If implementors are already not writing interoperable toolkits when implementing the existing RFC3080/3081, optional extensions are going to make this situation worse. Cheers, Sam From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 11:11:51 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8EC28C210 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:11:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_73=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eYJZYLYzkeBt for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:11:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5BEA28C20C for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:11:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55E02DA8B1; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:11:42 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from mail-qy0-f16.google.com (mail-qy0-f16.google.com [209.85.221.16]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 696732DC7F0 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:11:37 +0100 (CET) Received: by qyk9 with SMTP id 9so906485qyk.17 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:11:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=tzOG/cRxKKjHeyt1Tc2TNBSh6ThijFs+Xs5TmNFvJBA=; b=luDixJFXGIRGgVfro3EwoP1cYNeSSV7xYrX7FdD8Ye1aDd6UqgzGeN7fb4Q1uLJVxU W6w6WsQ7SQu3ZBLDbJrDC2C1DfeXRF7IYI/W+wV3EVt7hRMe+ooC64LKykRPdR7ONU7y YrsDpWmcOfXDveSQYeLLvHnY84SykPXGO1X+k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=CaM1dWs/SyWBaK5vfin+nDDGDhNRXxTP7/dXShpva7QRJNeMuRD/0H64WtfsxMfboO rrWor6H+Zc3eI+aQEivRA9ZqoCc/cY1GGHNBv+XNQdXxNyuwxvLn9QobkEpqjbAuxfGP RJuzXdNw7AX+C4CM+/Iz14imlWjnbCw7l6OyU= Received: by 10.142.156.2 with SMTP id d2mr2702148wfe.47.1227726695178; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.98.3 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:11:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:11:35 -0800 From: "Sam Roberts" To: beepwg@beepcore.org Subject: Re: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status In-Reply-To: <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.599, requerido 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60), X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sam Roberts wrote: > a - This draft describes how to build into BEEP something you can > already do with BEEP (several ways). > > I can write a trivial example using vortex that implements the > motivating use-case for those unconvinced. Sorry. Couldn't resist implementing this. Draft states following use case: """ Asynchronous applications require a protocol that is able to support a large number of concurrent outstanding requests. The analogy of a channel as a thread does not scale to the large number of threads used in modern systems. Modern applications regularly have large numbers of concurrent processing threads. Thus, a better way of multiplexing large numbers of concurrent requests is required. This document describes an BEEP feature, an extension to BEEP, that enables the creation of an asynchronous channel. An asynchronous channel is a channel where response ordering is not fixed to the order of the requests sent by the client peer. An asynchronous channel is identical to other channels, using unmodified framing; only requests may be processed in parallel and responses may be sent in any order. """ Note that Vortex delivers each MSG on a seperate thread, exactly as described above. BEEP msgnos are ordered across a channel, of course, but application msgs can be replied whenever you want. The profile designer specifies the content and meaning of beep message payload. Profile designers are not required to map BEEP internal msgno 1-to-1 to their profile's message identifiers. Often, this is convenient. When it is not convenient, don't do it. Server: #include #define PROFILE "http://example.com/beep/delayed" /* MSG payload is msgid server waits a random amount of time, and sends reply. RPY payload is "msgid delay", where msgid is the msgid of the request being responded to, and delay is how long the server delayed before sending the reply. Actual code might put msgid in a MIME header, and the payload would be the request information. Or the request would be xml encoded, and include a msgid. There are lots of variations of this, none of them requiring extending the BEEP protocol. */ VortexQueue* msgno_queue; void frame_received(VortexChannel* chan, VortexConnection* conn, VortexFrame* frame, void*v) { int msgno = vortex_frame_get_msgno (frame); int delay = (rand() % 30) + 1; char* msgid = vortex_frame_get_payload(frame); char str[128]; vortex_queue_push(msgno_queue, INT_TO_PTR(msgno)); printf("msgno %d msgid %s delay %d\n", msgno, msgid, delay); sleep(delay); msgno = PTR_TO_INT(vortex_queue_pop(msgno_queue)); sprintf(str, "%s %d", msgid, delay); vortex_channel_send_rpy(chan, str, strlen(str), msgno); } const char USAGE[] = "usage: %s "; int main(int argc, char ** argv) { if(!argv[1]) { printf("%s\n", USAGE); return 1; } msgno_queue = vortex_queue_new(); vortex_init(); vortex_log_enable(1); vortex_profiles_register(PROFILE, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, frame_received, NULL); vortex_listener_new("0.0.0.0", argv[1], NULL, NULL); vortex_listener_wait(); vortex_exit(); return 0; } Client: #include #include #define PROFILE "http://example.com/beep/delayed" int msgid = 0; void send_msg(VortexChannel* channel) { int ok = vortex_channel_send_msgv(channel, 0, "%d", ++msgid); assert(ok); } void on_frame(VortexChannel* channel, VortexConnection* conn, VortexFrame* frame, void* v) { int msgno = vortex_frame_get_msgno(frame); const char* content = vortex_frame_get_payload(frame); printf("(msgno %d) %s\n", msgno, content); send_msg(channel); } int main (int argc, char ** argv) { VortexConnection * connection = NULL; VortexChannel * channel = NULL; vortex_init (); connection = vortex_connection_new(argv[1], argv[2], NULL, NULL); if (!vortex_connection_is_ok(connection, false)) { fprintf(stderr, "Unable to connect remote server, error was: %s\n", vortex_connection_get_message(connection)); return 1; } channel = vortex_channel_new(connection, 0, PROFILE, NULL, NULL, /* no close handling */ on_frame, NULL, NULL, NULL /* no async channel creation */ ); if (channel == NULL) { fprintf(stderr, "Unable to create the channel..\n"); return 1; } printf(".. send msg\n"); send_msg(channel); send_msg(channel); send_msg(channel); send_msg(channel); send_msg(channel); { char c; read(0, &c, 1); } vortex_exit (); return 0 ; } Client output: % ./async-client localhost 3333 .. send msg (msgno 0) 3 28 (msgno 1) 1 14 (msgno 2) 2 17 (msgno 3) 5 24 (msgno 4) 4 26 (msgno 5) 10 2 (msgno 6) 11 3 (msgno 7) 9 10 (msgno 8) 8 13 (msgno 9) 12 8 Not BEEP msgno order is maintained, application msg order is asynchronous. Cheers, Sam From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 11:41:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB6D13A68AD for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:41:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.283 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.283 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jo6oocNIfQU6 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:41:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8474C3A6837 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:41:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC79D2D60F4; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:40:53 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from mail-out4.apple.com (mail-out4.apple.com [17.254.13.23]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACBB72DCB77 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:40:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay13.apple.com (relay13.apple.com [17.128.113.29]) by mail-out4.apple.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71DE54876081 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:40:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay13.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1])586C028088 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:40:47 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: 1180711d-aaa98bb000000ef0-99-492da63fff7c Received: from [17.151.86.20] (unknown [17.151.86.20]) by relay13.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 2D9E22804F for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:40:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: From: David Kramer To: beepwg@beepcore.org In-Reply-To: <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Subject: Re: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:40:47 -0800 References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-6.599, requerido 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED -4.00), X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org On Nov 26, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Sam Roberts wrote: > BEEP msgnos are ordered across a channel, of course, but application > msgs can be replied whenever you want. The profile designer specifies > the content and meaning of beep message payload. > > Profile designers are not required to map BEEP internal msgno 1-to-1 > to their profile's message identifiers. Often, this is convenient. > When it is not convenient, don't do it. I can provide some additional real-world evidence to back up Sam's claims. The way Xgrid uses BEEP is to send an immediate empty RPY for each MSG that is received. The RPY in this case acts as nothing more than an acknowledgement that the MSG was received. In Xgrid, all messages, whether they are requests, responses, or notifications, are mapped to BEEP MSGs. When Xgrid wants to reply to a request, it just sends it in another MSG. The body of the MSGs indicate whether the message is a request or a response, and each request includes a correlation ID which is then also included in the corresponding response. The bodies of requests Xgrid sends look something like this pseudo-xml: request status 87 ... It turns out that Xgrid actually responds to all messages in order, so this technique isn't being used to allow for out-of-order responses, even though it could be. In Xgrid's case, this technique is being used to allow for notifications -- messages for which there is no response. The use of the ANS-style replies is not suitable for Xgrid because of the requirement that each ANS message have a unique ID, which results in both the sender and receiver having to keep track of every outstanding ANS ID. For long-running connections with millions of notifications this puts pressure on memory and reduces performance. So I have to agree with Sam that on the face of things this proposal for a new asynchronous channel type seems unnecessary. Applications do not need to use BEEP message-numbers, they can ignore that detail of the BEEP implementation and just implement their own message tracking through the message headers or bodies. However, while we're on the topic of improving the BEEP protocol, if it were up to me the one change I would consider making is to add a new message type, the notification (NFN). This would be like a MSG, except that the peer does not send a RPY. This might be a simpler change that achieves the OPs goals. However, it really isn't very important, because it is easy to send empty RPYs, and the advantage of sending empty RPYs is that they act like an acknowledgement of receipt. If you were using NFN style notification messages the only acknowledgement you would get would be an eventual SEQ frame. -David From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 15:22:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC4F228C262 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:22:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.223 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.223 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.224, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_41=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lYrzwb8oy3dk for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:22:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 623FA28C261 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:22:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 076F42DD5E6; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:22:08 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from andrew.com (smtp3.andrew.com [198.135.207.235]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F7B82DD8B8 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:21:58 +0100 (CET) X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2008_11_26_17_39_43 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from aopexbh2.andrew.com [10.86.20.25] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:39:42 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by aopexbh2.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:21:55 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: RE: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:21:52 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status Thread-Index: AclP+tLmAaA0AadBRoOj1WMXwwz2GwAGbsHw References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> From: "Thomson, Martin" To: "Sam Roberts" , , "David Kramer" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2008 23:21:55.0427 (UTC) FILETIME=[C57BD330:01C9501D] X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. 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from [17.151.86.20] (unknown [17.151.86.20]) by relay12.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id E401F420003 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:24:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <78147C4B-4232-4A11-9603-5F8278A7141E@apple.com> From: David Kramer To: beepwg@beepcore.org In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Subject: Re: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:24:49 -0800 References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-6.599, requerido 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED -4.00), X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Hello Martin, I have a couple of responses to your message, as well as some comments on the draft. === >> c - BEEP adoption suffers from non-interoperability of existing >> toolkits. > > Feature negotiation ensures that this option cannot be used without > agreement. I can't see how this work affects interoperability. If I create a profile that requires the use of a new feature, then that profile can not be implemented on a BEEP stack that does not provide that feature, so that profile cannot interoperate with that BEEP stack. Perhaps this isn't the classic definition of interoperability, but it is something to consider. However, upon further consideration, I do not see how a profile could actually _require_ the use of the async feature, so the interoperability argument is moot. >> The way Xgrid uses BEEP is to send an immediate empty RPY for each >> MSG >> that is received. > > This is a valid choice for your application. This solution doesn't > presume to prevent this sort of behaviour, only expand the choices > available to application protocol designers. My point is that the protocol may already be flexible enough to solve the problem without inventing new features. I do not think expanding choices for the sake of choices is a good idea. If there is already a good way of doing something, we shouldn't add an additional way. > (Note that empty RPYs are a redundant receipt indication; you get > receipt indications at the TCP layer as well.) I do not think the TCP layer can indicate that that the remote application has read all of the message's frames from the socket, can it? That is what the empty RPY indicates, right? === Anyways, reading through the draft, I think one reason I am resistant to this feature is that I do not fully understand when it would better than the alternatives. As I see it, the two main alternatives to async channels are empty replies and multiple channels. The consequence of empty replies is that is pushes the burden of message correlation onto the application layer. I can appreciate that this is undesireable for applications that don't already have a reason to correlate messages. But this could be hidden from the application at the toolkit level. Rather than inventing a new type of channel, we could define some standard MIME headers that applications that require async messaging should use. And toolkits could add features to automatically add these headers and correlate replies with messages using them. Toolkits that didn't provide these features automatically could still interoperate with those that did, as long as the profile implementor handled the message correlation manually. The other option is multiple channels. Sending messages on separate channels has the asynchronous behavior you want, right? By using one channel per message you can implement your profile on any BEEP stack. The client can control the amount of parallel requests it makes by limiting the number of channels it opens, and the server can control the amount of parallel requests it has to handle by limiting the number of channels it allows the client to open. Again, the toolkit could provide features to automatically open and close channels for each message that is sent, or keep channel pools open, so the application still wouldn't have to deal with these details. In fact, the one-channel-per-message strategy provides even greater asynchrony than async channels, because the frames of both the MSGs and the RPYs on independent channels can be interleaved over the socket. The async channels feature specifically excludes this: "An asynchronous channel must still observe the rules in [RFC3080] regarding segmented messages. Each message must be completed before any other message can be sent on that same channel." However, I am concerned about this statement: "Different "ANS" messages that are sent in a one-to-many exchange may be interleaved with responses to other "MSG" messages." This seems to be a bad idea... is this saying that ANS and RPY frames can be interleaved on async channels? Why? I am especially concerned about the note following that statement: "It is recommended that BEEP peers do not generate interleaved ANS segments." Why is it recommended that you do not interleave ANS segments? Isn't this a basic feature of BEEP? Is this statement mean only in the context of async channels, or all channels? Based on this analysis it looks like async channels provide a compromise between empty RPYs, which puts the burden of message correlation onto the application, and multiple channels, which puts the burden of channel management onto the application. Both of the burdens could be lessened by toolkits or frameworks, without changing the BEEP wire protocol. But if you just want your server to be able to answer out of order, but you don't want to correlate the replies yourself, and you don't want the answers interleaved, then I see how the async channel is the most efficient solution. -David From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 18:44:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 137D33A699A for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:44:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_41=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SMoQ8S+zysEM for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:44:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1C83A67AF for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B6762C2739; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:44:35 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.175]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 228722C25ED for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:44:31 +0100 (CET) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so743322wfc.14 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:44:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=H3s47Orr0wqrlt8y3qqmrjpdB9IxgK4VmJ8a76NFfhY=; b=i7baHLQeA/umsqzaJwuP/JX1pxIuaDIIlpIHs1+vcrefbbnX9C2YTvIIwYHeYdJH7w qn9vg7+0CfQHEdqVkl6aDWjz/MbTvmwt9WOKa+dEvwjaZtQIqNYfNrMr7FLEoEvuQbL+ 3QOCvysyCFXXvTvF2VL3Nk5/LTeRBIQn3RQzQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=x5hvVWVkunm2c5n+PXdg0am0KRSjGshKur3OEKh9ffByw19Ufyg060vDrrwVL1g8iN mWTNKkhTkju2xpej1FGv2sqQ5rER4jf/L9/J/hK/QdIW9mMClW3FCarx3qVPqYxp/gj1 hP7/vB98bzn87NAZoHkfxCkAnapOr7HClFdy8= Received: by 10.142.173.14 with SMTP id v14mr2803948wfe.274.1227753870661; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:44:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.98.3 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:44:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <17eac67c0811261844p4cc94862ge25f4fdaf0970a96@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:44:30 -0800 From: "Sam Roberts" To: beepwg@beepcore.org Subject: Re: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.599, requerido 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60), X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 3:21 PM, Thomson, Martin wrote: > Sam: >> Note that Vortex delivers each MSG on a seperate thread, exactly as >> described above. > > If this is the case, then this is directly against the stated requirement in RFC 3080, Section 2.6.1: > > A BEEP peer acting in the server role must process all "MSG" messages > for a given channel in the same order as they are received. This is far-fetched. Vortex is acting correctly. It delivers the MSGs to the API serially (to different threads). BEEP places no requirements on the what "process" means for a profile. [reordered] > Sam: >> BEEP msgnos are ordered across a channel, of course, but application >> msgs can be replied whenever you want. > > This is in direct contravention of the quoted requirement, above. BEEP RPYs are passing over the wire in the RFC defined order. I could write the code in the other toolkits I use, too (beepy, swirl/beepcore-c, and beep4j). > Of course, to operate in this mode, a client will have to implement a demux layer that redirects responses to the entity that originated the request. Without this layer, the BEEP stack would redirect responses to the wrong entity. > In your example, the entity that makes request 3 would receive response 5 instead. This is less of a problem in C, but much more of a problem for an OO language implementation, c.f. beep4j. > You've made a conscious decision to move the complexity to the application. Yes, where it belongs. Demonstrably trivial complexity (implementable in a few lines of C code in my example, I don't believe its harder with beep4j, we use it, its a good toolkit). The complexity of the code that implements application functionality will dwarf these few lines. This is what BEEP is designed for, to be a protocol to build protocols, not a finished thing implementing everything you could want. > Sam: >> c - BEEP adoption suffers from non-interoperability of existing toolkits. > > Feature negotiation ensures that this option cannot be used without agreement. I can't see how this work affects interoperability. Some toolkits will have it, some won't. Profiles specified as needing the extension will be implementable with some toolkits, not with others. Cheers, Sam From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 19:07:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9204528C245 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:07:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.089, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EWdU3mvSH4+P for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:07:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA62328C144 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:07:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293B32DE512; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 04:07:16 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from andrew.com (smtp3.andrew.com [198.135.207.235]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C25D72DE512 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 04:07:09 +0100 (CET) X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2008_11_26_21_24_56 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from acdcexbh1.andrew.com [10.86.20.91] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:24:55 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by acdcexbh1.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:07:08 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: RE: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:07:06 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <78147C4B-4232-4A11-9603-5F8278A7141E@apple.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status Thread-Index: AclQN1pDnj0N3W5/RJWR+SsQudjgdgAAU37w References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com><1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local><18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us><17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com><17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> <78147C4B-4232-4A11-9603-5F8278A7141E@apple.com> From: "Thomson, Martin" To: "David Kramer" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2008 03:07:08.0356 (UTC) FILETIME=[3BD12840:01C9503D] X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. 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LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NClttZjJdDQo= From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 19:51:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7708C28C149 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:51:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BA7HHvW4HRg7 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:51:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5685028C146 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:51:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEF992C1CCB; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 04:51:14 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.173]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 011D92C1C92 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 04:51:10 +0100 (CET) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so764286wfc.14 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:51:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=yFwN/fGVa5KdOgxB1cKL1HqPcivQGq14GvTUKN348xM=; b=ZDe4UgSG9eR6tHLGELKtRXC0c83poRqAJeSEouQvVEgY4RbwtQvBckolkxWAIvhp/Q 7/vQqReUZjZOBZS0YVoiblkW8HNkoNs0caCpGYmVLikTGK1nUbPasJDGQjUxE49diu1V afW/9w5CSuvOUKgmUjURIElAvayeXDPrEDYps= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=qOPiEczHefXcV0/6WNJ/3WT5ch9HZjbjxR+5uwoMgnGucQ8cIA4v2veXUrHjbFrry+ /cPcDB+kcuEUG64KGSng4HBs6DKw5Xpz7VORDln3INykfVe3B47lcc/QWR+uGtqRyiE/ 3/hfOE7ULcccdtPuI+XH/34sG1ku6Z/jClp9w= Received: by 10.142.50.15 with SMTP id x15mr2839382wfx.80.1227757869536; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:51:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.98.3 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:51:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <17eac67c0811261951u6777b025lf636e5d4cec99fb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:51:09 -0800 From: "Sam Roberts" To: beepwg@beepcore.org Subject: Re: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> <78147C4B-4232-4A11-9603-5F8278A7141E@apple.com> X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.599, requerido 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60), X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 7:07 PM, Thomson, Martin wrote: > Hi David, > > I went through exactly the same thought process in coming up with this solution. I think that only the conclusion is different. > RFC 3080 allows for interleaving split ANS frames. It doesn't say why. I can't for the life of me work out how this would be a good idea. > > My view is that there is no reason why a stack should treat ANS frames any > differently to other frames once they are received from the application. Frame splitting is a flow control and throughput issue, which should be handled at a lower logical layer in the stack. In below, "message" means a *complete* MSG, RPY, ERR, or ANS, not a frame. Interleaving of ANS frames provides a useful feature not commonly implemented by toolkits other than beepcore-c. AFAICT, several toolkits (beep4j, for example) started off only working in terms of messages, for both send and receive. This doesn't allow a peer to process data as it arrives in frames, and can cause deadlock if the window fills. So, eventually they allow frames to be received by applications as they arrive, perhaps optionally (vortex will accumulate all frames into a complete message, if requested, for example, before presenting them to an application). It is quite useful to expose frames to applications on the sending side, too. For example, it allows a single RPY to have an arbitrarily large size, so an entire file could be transferred in a single RPY (ANS, MSG, etc.) in block-size frames. All the toolkit APIs since beepcore-c (that I've seen) force the application to present the entire payload of a MSG, RPY, ANS, etc. as a contiguous chunk of data in a single API call when sending. Anyhow, RFC3080 describes MSG/ANS as a one-to-many exchange, and each one of the entities on the "many" side is allowed to generate its ANS as a series of frames. Without this capability, the entities would be forced to provide complete ANSs serially, instead of in parallel. Sam From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 19:57:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8107928C14B for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:57:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.515 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.515 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.084, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K1gmo203CZni for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:57:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5BE28C14A for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:57:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36FDC2C2446; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 04:57:10 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from andrew.com (smtp3.andrew.com [198.135.207.235]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 465022C0460 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 04:57:06 +0100 (CET) X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2008_11_26_22_14_48 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from aopexbh2.andrew.com [10.86.20.25] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:14:48 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by aopexbh2.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:57:01 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: RE: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:56:59 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <17eac67c0811261844p4cc94862ge25f4fdaf0970a96@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status Thread-Index: AclQOhwH6Un4PGdPRj+0me4VrVxn8AAAyFvg References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261844p4cc94862ge25f4fdaf0970a96@mail.gmail.com> From: "Thomson, Martin" To: "Sam Roberts" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2008 03:57:01.0164 (UTC) FILETIME=[33AB6AC0:01C95044] X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. 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DQ8wsGKCtviZsyC26zjI1SQfFW//OGRNzXOUlXn20YQW7KzGYmF0q3MTIyqu+gRL6AZf GDC8b5WeoXUSvP863YZ8CzlaC/KPadULbnmOI= Received: by 10.142.158.17 with SMTP id g17mr2847896wfe.21.1227758462048; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:01:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.98.3 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:01:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <17eac67c0811262001p6365f5f5hf2bbcc9db40e1ed1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:01:01 -0800 From: "Sam Roberts" To: beepwg@beepcore.org Subject: Re: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261844p4cc94862ge25f4fdaf0970a96@mail.gmail.com> X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.599, requerido 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60), X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org > The contravention is in the processing order, not the on-wire representation. RFC 3080 only defines wire representation. Peer behaviour is defined by a profile, not RFC3080. Cheers, Sam From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 20:09:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED71928C129 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:09:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id elt-UDAIeUzx for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:09:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA9F73A69D8 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D6A2C34F6; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 05:09:33 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from andrew.com (smtp3.andrew.com [198.135.207.235]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C777C3F7 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 05:09:26 +0100 (CET) X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2008_11_26_22_27_10 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from aopexbh2.andrew.com [10.86.20.25] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:27:10 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by aopexbh2.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:09:23 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: RE: ANS interleaving (was: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:09:21 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <17eac67c0811261951u6777b025lf636e5d4cec99fb@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ANS interleaving (was: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status) Thread-Index: AclQQ2pIvYZHnHizRY6usk5d1ZJ5hQAATu4g References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> <78147C4B-4232-4A11-9603-5F8278A7141E@apple.com> <17eac67c0811261951u6777b025lf636e5d4cec99fb@mail.gmail.com> From: "Thomson, Martin" To: "Sam Roberts" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2008 04:09:23.0154 (UTC) FILETIME=[EDEE1B20:01C95045] X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. 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Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org SGkgU2FtLA0KDQpZb3Ugc3RhdGUgdGhhdCBBTlMgaW50ZXJsZWF2aW5nIGlzIGEgdXNlZnVsIGZl YXR1cmUgb2YgdGhlIHByb3RvY29sLCBhbmQgdGhlbiBwb2ludCBvdXQgdGhhdCBhbG1vc3Qgbm8t b25lIGJvdGhlcnMgdG8gaW1wbGVtZW50IGl0LiAgQ2FuIHlvdSBwcm92aWRlIGEgdXNlIGNhc2U/ DQoNClRoZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9uIGFjY2VzcyB0byBmcmFtZXMgaXMgaW50ZXJlc3RpbmcsIGJ1 dCBpdCBkb2Vzbid0IGNvbnRyaWJ1dGUgdG8gdGhlIGRpc2N1c3Npb24uDQoNCj4gQW55aG93LCBS RkMzMDgwIGRlc2NyaWJlcyBNU0cvQU5TIGFzIGEgb25lLXRvLW1hbnkgZXhjaGFuZ2UsIGFuZCBl YWNoDQo+IG9uZSBvZiB0aGUgZW50aXRpZXMgb24gdGhlICJtYW55IiBzaWRlIGlzIGFsbG93ZWQg dG8gZ2VuZXJhdGUgaXRzIEFOUw0KPiBhcyBhIHNlcmllcyBvZiBmcmFtZXMuIFdpdGhvdXQgdGhp cyBjYXBhYmlsaXR5LCB0aGUgZW50aXRpZXMgd291bGQgYmUNCj4gZm9yY2VkIHRvIHByb3ZpZGUg Y29tcGxldGUgQU5TcyBzZXJpYWxseSwgaW5zdGVhZCBvZiBpbiBwYXJhbGxlbC4NCg0KVGhpcyB3 YXMgYSByZXZlbGF0aW9uIG9mIGEgc29ydCBmb3IgbWUuICBJZiB3ZSBhcmUgdGFsa2luZyBhYm91 dCBtYW55IHNlcnZpbmcgZW50aXRpZXMgdGhlbiBtYXliZSB0aGVyZSBJUyBhIHVzZSBjYXNlLiAg SG93ZXZlciwgZ2l2ZW4gdGhhdCB0aGlzIGlzIGEgb25lLXRvLW1hbnkgZXhjaGFuZ2Ugb2YgX21l c3NhZ2VzXywgSSBkb24ndCBzZWUgaG93IHlvdSBtYWtlIHRoZSBsZWFwIGZyb20gdGhhdCB0byBt YW55IGVudGl0aWVzLg0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpNYXJ0aW4NCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpUaGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgaXMgZm9yIHRoZSBkZXNpZ25hdGVkIHJl Y2lwaWVudCBvbmx5IGFuZCBtYXkNCmNvbnRhaW4gcHJpdmlsZWdlZCwgcHJvcHJpZXRhcnksIG9y IG90aGVyd2lzZSBwcml2YXRlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLiAgDQpJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSByZWNlaXZlZCBp dCBpbiBlcnJvciwgcGxlYXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyDQppbW1lZGlhdGVseSBhbmQgZGVs ZXRlIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbC4gIEFueSB1bmF1dGhvcml6ZWQgdXNlIG9mDQp0aGlzIGVtYWlsIGlz IHByb2hpYml0ZWQuDQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCltt ZjJdDQo= From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 20:15:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 318703A6830 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:15:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eb9wz6ETXN8I for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:15:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11AB83A6A36 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:15:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74ADD2C1D42; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 05:15:33 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from andrew.com (smtp3.andrew.com [198.135.207.235]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 764232C1AB4 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 05:15:27 +0100 (CET) X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2008_11_26_22_33_12 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from acdcexbh1.andrew.com [10.86.20.91] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:33:12 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by acdcexbh1.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:15:25 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: RE: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:15:17 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <17eac67c0811262001p6365f5f5hf2bbcc9db40e1ed1@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status Thread-Index: AclQRMgH6xhiKPvlSRGupo1RPs/RkgAASZSg References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261844p4cc94862ge25f4fdaf0970a96@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811262001p6365f5f5hf2bbcc9db40e1ed1@mail.gmail.com> From: "Thomson, Martin" To: "Sam Roberts" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2008 04:15:25.0278 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5C5D7E0:01C95046] X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. 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Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org VGhlIHRleHQgaW4gcXVlc3Rpb24gWzFdIHRhbGtzIGFib3V0IHBlZXIgYmVoYXZpb3VyLiAgVGhp cyBpcyBvZnRlbiBhIHBvaW50IG9mIGNvbnRlbnRpb24gaW4gdGhlIElFVEYsIGJ1dCB0aGUgZGlz Y3Vzc2lvbiBhbHdheXMgY29tZXMgYmFjayB0byB0aGUgcmVhbGl0eS4gIEluZXZpdGFibHksIHNv bWUgYXNwZWN0cyBvZiBiZWhhdmlvdXIgYXJlIHZpc2libGUgb24gdGhlIHdpcmUuDQoNClRoZSB0 ZXh0IGluIFJGQyAzMDgwIGNvdmVycyBib3RoIHByb2Nlc3NpbmcgYmVoYXZpb3VyIGFuZCBvbi13 aXJlIGJlaGF2aW91ciwgb25lIHNlbnRlbmNlIGZvciBlYWNoLiAgSWYgaXQgd2VyZSBqdXN0IGFi b3V0IG9uLXdpcmUgYmVoYXZpb3VyLCB0aGUgc2Vjb25kIHNlbnRlbmNlIHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgYmVl biBzdWZmaWNpZW50Lg0KDQpUYSwNCk1hcnRpbg0KDQpbMV0gDQogICBBIEJFRVAgcGVlciBhY3Rp bmcgaW4gdGhlIHNlcnZlciByb2xlIG11c3QgcHJvY2VzcyBhbGwgIk1TRyIgbWVzc2FnZXMNCiAg IGZvciBhIGdpdmVuIGNoYW5uZWwgaW4gdGhlIHNhbWUgb3JkZXIgYXMgdGhleSBhcmUgcmVjZWl2 ZWQuICBBcyBhDQogICBjb25zZXF1ZW5jZSwgdGhlIEJFRVAgcGVlciBtdXN0IGdlbmVyYXRlIHJl cGxpZXMgaW4gdGhlIHNhbWUgb3JkZXIgYXMNCiAgIHRoZSBjb3JyZXNwb25kaW5nICJNU0ciIG1l c3NhZ2VzIGFyZSByZWNlaXZlZCBvbiBhIGdpdmVuIGNoYW5uZWwuDQoNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdp bmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBiZWVwd2ctYm91bmNlc0BiZWVwY29yZS5vcmcgW21h aWx0bzpiZWVwd2ctYm91bmNlc0BiZWVwY29yZS5vcmddDQo+IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBTYW0gUm9i ZXJ0cw0KPiBTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgMjcgTm92ZW1iZXIgMjAwOCAzOjAxIFBNDQo+IFRvOiBi ZWVwd2dAYmVlcGNvcmUub3JnDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbYmVlcHdnXSBBc3luY2hyb25vdXMg QkVFUCBkcmFmdCBzdGF0dXMNCj4gDQo+ID4gVGhlIGNvbnRyYXZlbnRpb24gaXMgaW4gdGhlIHBy b2Nlc3Npbmcgb3JkZXIsIG5vdCB0aGUgb24td2lyZQ0KPiByZXByZXNlbnRhdGlvbi4NCj4gDQo+ IFJGQyAzMDgwIG9ubHkgZGVmaW5lcyB3aXJlIHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aW9uLiBQZWVyIGJlaGF2aW91 ciBpcyBkZWZpbmVkDQo+IGJ5IGEgcHJvZmlsZSwgbm90IFJGQzMwODAuDQo+IA0KPiBDaGVlcnMs DQo+IFNhbQ0KDQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NClRoaXMg bWVzc2FnZSBpcyBmb3IgdGhlIGRlc2lnbmF0ZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50IG9ubHkgYW5kIG1heQ0KY29u dGFpbiBwcml2aWxlZ2VkLCBwcm9wcmlldGFyeSwgb3Igb3RoZXJ3aXNlIHByaXZhdGUgaW5mb3Jt YXRpb24uICANCklmIHlvdSBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIGl0IGluIGVycm9yLCBwbGVhc2Ugbm90aWZ5 IHRoZSBzZW5kZXINCmltbWVkaWF0ZWx5IGFuZCBkZWxldGUgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsLiAgQW55IHVu YXV0aG9yaXplZCB1c2Ugb2YNCnRoaXMgZW1haWwgaXMgcHJvaGliaXRlZC4NCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KW21mMl0NCg== From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 21:24:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A600C3A6A35 for ; 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Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:24:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <17eac67c0811262124ubc21e04x5a86ee5690da7dad@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:24:36 -0800 From: "Sam Roberts" To: beepwg@beepcore.org Subject: Re: ANS interleaving (was: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> <78147C4B-4232-4A11-9603-5F8278A7141E@apple.com> <17eac67c0811261951u6777b025lf636e5d4cec99fb@mail.gmail.com> X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.599, requerido 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60), X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 8:09 PM, Thomson, Martin wrote: > Hi Sam, > > You state that ANS interleaving is a useful feature of the protocol, and then point out that almost no-one bothers to implement it. Implementors are having enough trouble getting basic communication going! Beepy and beep4j wouldn't communicate at all when we first tried, beepy had broken SEQ handling, and beep4j had broken MIME header format parsing, and beepcore-c wouldn't talk to vortex. I haven't tried the first two against the latter two, yet. Hopefully it will go well. > Can you provide a use case? But those gripes aside, I sure can. Both for an ANS, and just generally for transferring files larger than should be manipulated in-memory. RFC3080: "in a one-to-many exchange, multiple answers may be simultaneously in progress" MSG: ANS: a movie, type and name defined in MIME headers, with Uma Thurman in it ... The MSG would kick into gear a heavy duty search of known movie download sites, and each ANS would be a single movie, sent as it is found in small chunks (movies are big!), possibly multiple ones would be found at once and sent. Anyhow, like async channels, its a feature that you can do without, you can build it on top of smaller message exchanges tied together by identifiers that are not BEEP message numbers. For example, we transfer large dynamically generated PDFs over BEEP. With beepcore-c, as data is ready we would write out a frame of a RPY (which might get further subdivided as needed to fit window size), but instead we RPY with a "its coming at you soon with this message-id", and then send each chunk of data as it is available with a MSG (which gets an empty RPY). Mind you, we reply before we actually process the request to generate and send the file. Actually, we have a "thin" UI client (beep4j) that uses BEEP to talk to its server (heavily modified beepy), and almost everything that happens on the client involves a MSG being sent to the server, followed by an immediate RPY , and then the server starts doing whatever processing is required for the requested action. Would you really consider our use of BEEP a massive conformance breach of an RFC3080 "process before sending RPY" restriction on the implementation of profiles? Cheers, Sam From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 22:00:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B56B3A6A35 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:00:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_41=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HkXglctj+HZH for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:00:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DB73A6A74 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:00:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E484B2C44F2; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 07:00:25 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.231]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11FC478AC8 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 07:00:14 +0100 (CET) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id k40so777253rvb.17 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:00:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=/XVm1loNzI7CxIy3WObsQhTogImc3YITQrmcApykYb4=; b=taR+o1xbnQ+PJLTUflCreH/XnHnCt4BfqC3kmrcLZ0Sa6vNz7COtyP1zZQqmROWs5K LjmSb0meORIaEAeyNUJ+kIskzb7ByCza3OXaC0sQM+5ew+iu71Cmct6+nKBmr+iUB1jg oQal61llGlxU3axuCB2bgsbCm7m4tPspiF/Yw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=fq2ENhhk7Tol1vetuetPZRYtY2ttgIA+lohSG70m1PlYDbcUsfDpkmxGku/wvCqV1L n8BPp4/hkef0RcDbWKSxauDCiVuD/4lEbIzNDhPYhDcler46HrJQPLRGLOH+6lCliMDt S9eDzyfWYgLK/j73avVlGNn2yuqWmgssaVwgQ= Received: by 10.143.18.16 with SMTP id v16mr2868120wfi.142.1227765613206; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:00:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.98.3 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:00:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <17eac67c0811262200s5c28af05pc7633acc080bcac5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:00:13 -0800 From: "Sam Roberts" To: "Lua list" , beepwg@beepcore.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.599, requerido 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60), Subject: [beepwg] Swirl - implementation of BEEP for Lua X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org * About BEEP is a "protocol kernel" useful for implementing application protocols. This is a binding of beepcore-c into Lua 5.1, wrapped in a more user-friendly API implemented directly in Lua. The swirl core has no dependency on any particular TCP APIs. It can be used with any, including the non-blocking event-based APIs common in UIs, and other development frameworks. However, as an example of usage, and because its useful for me, an event loop based implementation on top of LuaSocket is included, along with some LuaSocket extensions to select on arbitary file descriptors, and read raw data from sockets. * Availability Package: http://luaforge.net/projects/swirl/ Source: http://github.com/sam-github/swirl/tree/master * License MIT style, the same as Lua. * Plans My goals are to confirm that beepcore-c works well, and is easy to bind into another language. I started with Lua because its simple (and fun), but I don't have any active projects that need BEEP for Lua. I hope to take what I learn and produce a binding into Python's Twisted network stack, next, and if I ever need a BEEP library for Ruby, I'll know how to make one easily. * Benchmarking One concern of mine with BEEP implementations I've worked with is how fast they can transfer data. Swirl includes some benchmarks to compare performance with raw TCP (bm-beep-client/server and bm-raw-client/server). The benchmark profile is also implemented for Vortex, and I will try to do one for beep4j as well. I'm curious to see how the toolkits compare, and I suspect that techniques to maximize performance for one will work for all of them. * Beepcore-c Since beepcore-c is an abandoned project, it might seem odd that I should use it to implement Swirl. I chose it because its architecture seems to be designed for ease of embedding in a host language. It's architecture is described here: http://beepcore-c.sourceforge.net/Architecture.html Swirl discards the multi-threaded, overly complex, and overly ambitious wrapper portions of the library, and is implemented directly on the "core". * Vortex A previous attempt at Swirl had attempted to bind Vortex into Lua. However, the pervasive multi-threaded nature of Vortex proved to difficult to deal with. I had to attempt to make Vortex look single-threaded to the Lua interpreter. This was quite difficult because Vortex is heavily callback based, but the callbacks happen on unpredictable threads. My deadlocks might have been solveable, or might not, but I began to feel I was fighting uphill. Remnants of this early attempt exist in the code base, such as the on_ convention for callbacks, and I really appreciate Francis Blazquez's friendly support while trying to use his toolkit. * References http://beepcore-c.sourceforge.net/ http://lua.org http://www.aspl.es/vortex/ http://www.beepcore.org/ http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/luasocket/ * Contact Please direct suggestions, patches, offers to pay for continued development, etc., to Sam Roberts Project is hosted via git, see: http://github.com/sam-github/swirl/tree/master From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Wed Nov 26 22:13:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27FD23A6801 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:13:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.075 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.075 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.524, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RnOgBBBBwQN8 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:13:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 037E03A695C for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:13:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB302DD824; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 07:13:43 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from andrew.com (smtp3.andrew.com [198.135.207.235]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD6B32DCD6D for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 07:13:37 +0100 (CET) X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2008_11_27_00_31_22 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from acdcexbh1.andrew.com [10.86.20.91] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:31:22 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by acdcexbh1.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:13:34 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: RE: ANS interleaving (was: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:13:33 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <17eac67c0811262124ubc21e04x5a86ee5690da7dad@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ANS interleaving (was: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status) Thread-Index: AclQUKTP6EgCNLYTSGqo4NO+ipryQAABeJTQ References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> <18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com> <78147C4B-4232-4A11-9603-5F8278A7141E@apple.com> <17eac67c0811261951u6777b025lf636e5d4cec99fb@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811262124ubc21e04x5a86ee5690da7dad@mail.gmail.com> From: "Thomson, Martin" To: "Sam Roberts" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2008 06:13:34.0414 (UTC) FILETIME=[473A26E0:01C95057] X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. 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Thu, 27 Nov 2008 01:48:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i2kO0HPVd9we for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 01:48:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB7A3A6B9A for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 01:48:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205D22D7575; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:47:55 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from mailin.adiscon.com (hetzner.adiscon.com [85.10.198.18]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6D672D7543 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:47:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailin.adiscon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36408241C002; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:45:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from mailin.adiscon.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SqKW-GKEIZiw; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:45:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from grfint2.intern.adiscon.com (p50989a7c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.152.154.124]) by mailin.adiscon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08456241C001; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:45:41 +0100 (CET) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: RE: ANS interleaving (was: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:47:41 +0100 Message-ID: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA44F72E@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ANS interleaving (was: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status) Thread-Index: AclQQ2pIvYZHnHizRY6usk5d1ZJ5hQAATu4gAAwiB/A= References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com><1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local><18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us><17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com><17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com><78147C4B-4232-4A11-9603-5F8278A7141E@apple.com><17eac67c0811261951u6777b025lf636e5d4cec99fb@mail.gmail.com> From: "Rainer Gerhards" To: "Thomson, Martin" , "Sam Roberts" , X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. 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Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org SGkgTWFydGluLA0KDQpJIGFtIG5vdCBjb21tZW50aW5nIG9uIHRoZSByb290IHF1ZXN0aW9uLCBi ZWNhdXNlIEkgd2FzIHRvbyBsb25nIG5vbi1pbnZvbHZlZCB3aXRoIEJFRVAuIEJ1dC4uLiAoaW5s aW5lKQ0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IGJlZXB3Zy1ib3Vu Y2VzQGJlZXBjb3JlLm9yZyBbbWFpbHRvOmJlZXB3Zy1ib3VuY2VzQGJlZXBjb3JlLm9yZ10NCj4g T24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIFRob21zb24sIE1hcnRpbg0KPiBTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIg MjcsIDIwMDggNTowOSBBTQ0KPiBUbzogU2FtIFJvYmVydHM7IGJlZXB3Z0BiZWVwY29yZS5vcmcN Cj4gU3ViamVjdDogUkU6IEFOUyBpbnRlcmxlYXZpbmcgKHdhczogW2JlZXB3Z10gQXN5bmNocm9u b3VzIEJFRVAgZHJhZnQNCj4gc3RhdHVzKQ0KPiANCj4gSGkgU2FtLA0KPiANCj4gWW91IHN0YXRl IHRoYXQgQU5TIGludGVybGVhdmluZyBpcyBhIHVzZWZ1bCBmZWF0dXJlIG9mIHRoZSBwcm90b2Nv bCwNCj4gYW5kIHRoZW4gcG9pbnQgb3V0IHRoYXQgYWxtb3N0IG5vLW9uZSBib3RoZXJzIHRvIGlt cGxlbWVudCBpdC4gIENhbiB5b3UNCj4gcHJvdmlkZSBhIHVzZSBjYXNlPw0KDQpSRkMzMTk1LCBh IHN0YW5kYXJkcy10cmFjayBzeXNsb2cgUkZDLCBoZWF2aWx5IGRlcGVuZHMgb24gaW50ZXJsZWF2 aW5nIEFOUy4gV2l0aG91dCB0aGVtLCB0aGUgcHJvZmlsZSBjYW5ub3QgYmUgaW1wbGVtZW50ZWQu IA0KDQpSYWluZXIgR2VyaGFyZHMNCg== From mismgt@acnielsenedi.com Thu Nov 27 11:36:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC4E3A69E5 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:36:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -35.445 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-35.445 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IK0-ttRtOUsn for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:36:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from e176186185.adsl.alicedsl.de (e176186185.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.176.186.185]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AAE423A6A60 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:36:00 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: all women like them From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081127193600.AAE423A6A60@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:36:00 -0800 (PST)
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From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Thu Nov 27 12:32:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB8F43A67D9 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:32:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.085 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.085 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.086, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_41=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dQA5WVzwxzt7 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:32:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67F773A6452 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:32:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21DB22DC964; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:31:46 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.170]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C8CF2DC603 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:31:34 +0100 (CET) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so1090434wfc.14 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:31:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=SWim52jo8JatHl15I95yQ1NYP4LFhfThCuNJzd4SY5g=; b=I8ELDVeIJna2GwhBkqftR/sBp7qjiF7aUQF1jRnFH/FnIcJHtsWbjm80nedAddUY50 j3wOixYJo2Er2e7cwg8gQpuK3bgPQ23Txi3jPLGJKv4eKU6Smrnkn9fCJsXRyNNp2Db4 gzjAt50FPZgUM2zBR1fvFRYJosCcFZUElTRm4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=NXY8Z2iqVuuObb2tLaaNOBI3CWQw8LwZlJJygiFVcnxyjpU6NRQjwobo428QFtJYIH tu2GXjwt7RYLH0qJ8/bZ4Oml6Vy+8i+RhaYWf3HRxKKBHBJvilCMmFaslJ6VDbLmzLFH 3SlTmKf2O1CpWUPNSIfvKijqH11GQ8SOC2PC8= Received: by 10.142.215.5 with SMTP id n5mr3097193wfg.5.1227817893303; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:31:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.98.3 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:31:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <17eac67c0811271231h77ce4575j9b191f520034563c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:31:33 -0800 From: "Sam Roberts" To: beepwg@beepcore.org In-Reply-To: <17eac67c0811271219i4ea6ab72p816734998d6fe7ab@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <17eac67c0811262200s5c28af05pc7633acc080bcac5@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811271219i4ea6ab72p816734998d6fe7ab@mail.gmail.com> X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.599, requerido 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60), Subject: [beepwg] Swirl - implementation of BEEP for Lua X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org I apologize if this is received twice. I don't think my initial send made it through, and I am having trouble verifying from the beepwg archives. The link here is broken: http://beepcore.org/mailman/listinfo/beepwg * About BEEP is a "protocol kernel" useful for implementing application protocols. This is a binding of beepcore-c into Lua 5.1, wrapped in a more user-friendly API implemented directly in Lua. The swirl core has no dependency on any particular TCP APIs. It can be used with any, including the non-blocking event-based APIs common in UIs, and other development frameworks. However, as an example of usage, and because its useful for me, an event loop based implementation on top of LuaSocket is included, along with some LuaSocket extensions to select on arbitary file descriptors, and read raw data from sockets. * Availability Package: http://luaforge.net/projects/swirl/ Source: http://github.com/sam-github/swirl/tree/master * License MIT style, the same as Lua. * Plans My goals are to confirm that beepcore-c works well, and is easy to bind into another language. I started with Lua because its simple (and fun), but I don't have any active projects that need BEEP for Lua. I hope to take what I learn and produce a binding into Python's Twisted network stack, next, and if I ever need a BEEP library for Ruby, I'll know how to make one easily. * Benchmarking One concern of mine with BEEP implementations I've worked with is how fast they can transfer data. Swirl includes some benchmarks to compare performance with raw TCP (bm-beep-client/server and bm-raw-client/server). The benchmark profile is also implemented for Vortex, and I will try to do one for beep4j as well. I'm curious to see how the toolkits compare, and I suspect that techniques to maximize performance for one will work for all of them. * Beepcore-c Since beepcore-c is an abandoned project, it might seem odd that I should use it to implement Swirl. I chose it because its architecture seems to be designed for ease of embedding in a host language. It's architecture is described here: http://beepcore-c.sourceforge.net/Architecture.html Swirl discards the multi-threaded, overly complex, and overly ambitious wrapper portions of the library, and is implemented directly on the "core". * Vortex A previous attempt at Swirl had attempted to bind Vortex into Lua. However, the pervasive multi-threaded nature of Vortex proved to difficult to deal with. I had to attempt to make Vortex look single-threaded to the Lua interpreter. This was quite difficult because Vortex is heavily callback based, but the callbacks happen on unpredictable threads. My deadlocks might have been solveable, or might not, but I began to feel I was fighting uphill. Remnants of this early attempt exist in the code base, such as the on_ convention for callbacks, and I really appreciate Francis Blazquez's friendly support while trying to use his toolkit. * References http://beepcore-c.sourceforge.net/ http://lua.org http://www.aspl.es/vortex/ http://www.beepcore.org/ http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/luasocket/ * Contact Please direct suggestions, patches, offers to pay for continued development, etc., to Sam Roberts From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Thu Nov 27 13:29:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B48443A6A53 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:29:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.099, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_63=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_93=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bnJ1LPr7qHBx for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:29:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B127A3A67C0 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:29:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588AD2E06ED; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:29:01 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from andrew.com (smtp3.andrew.com [198.135.207.235]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 678C92E06F8 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:28:47 +0100 (CET) X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2008_11_27_15_46_34 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from acdcexbh1.andrew.com [10.86.20.91] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:46:34 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by acdcexbh1.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:28:45 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: RE: ANS interleaving (was: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:28:43 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA44F72E@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ANS interleaving (was: [beepwg] Asynchronous BEEP draft status) Thread-Index: AclQQ2pIvYZHnHizRY6usk5d1ZJ5hQAATu4gAAwiB/AAGEt9AA== References: <2eddea3f-0580-4410-a331-08ad6edc5e23@w3g2000yqc.googlegroups.com><1227689332.25381.152.camel@vulcan.aspl.local><18365537-DEDA-404D-92A2-D2F724E7C289@dbc.mtview.ca.us><17eac67c0811261017w22f1aca4yc0184fb15239ba47@mail.gmail.com><17eac67c0811261111y73201d4ex67d247366481de52@mail.gmail.com><78147C4B-4232-4A11-9603-5F8278A7141E@apple.com><17eac67c0811261951u6777b025lf636e5d4cec99fb@mail.gmail.com> <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA44F72E@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> From: "Thomson, Martin" To: "Rainer Gerhards" , "Sam Roberts" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2008 21:28:45.0813 (UTC) FILETIME=[20F8B250:01C950D7] X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.6, requerido 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60, SPF_HELO_PASS -0.00), X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org SGkgUmFpbmVyLA0KDQo+IFJGQzMxOTUsIGEgc3RhbmRhcmRzLXRyYWNrIHN5c2xvZyBSRkMsIGhl YXZpbHkgZGVwZW5kcyBvbiBpbnRlcmxlYXZpbmcNCj4gQU5TLiBXaXRob3V0IHRoZW0sIHRoZSBw cm9maWxlIGNhbm5vdCBiZSBpbXBsZW1lbnRlZC4NCg0KQWN0dWFsbHksIEkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlIHRo aXMgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnQgaW4gdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50LiAgS2VlcCBpbiBtaW5kIHRoYXQgd2UgYXJl IHRhbGtpbmcgYWJvdXQgbXVsdGlwbGUgQU5TIG1lc3NhZ2VzLCBlYWNoIGJlaW5nIHNwbGl0IGlu dG8gZnJhbWVzIGFuZCB0aG9zZSBmcmFtZXMgaW50ZXJsZWF2ZWQuDQoNCkZyb20gUkZDIDMxOTUs IHRoaXMgd291bGQgYmUgd2hlcmUgeW91IGdldCBzb21ldGhpbmcgbGlrZToNCg0KICBJOiBBTlMg MSAwICogMCA0MiAwDQogIEk6DQogIEk6IDwyOT5PY3QgMjcgMTM6MjE6MDggZHVjdHdvcmsgaW14 cGRbMTQxXTpFTkQNCiAgSTogQU5TIDEgMCAqIDQyIDQyIDENCiAgSToNCiAgSTogPDI5Pk9jdCAy NyAxMzoyMjoxNSBkdWN0d29yayBpbXhwZFsxNDFdOkVORA0KICBJOiBBTlMgMSAwIC4gODQgMTkg MA0KICBJOg0KICBJOiAgSGVhdGluZyBlbWVyZ2VuY3kuRU5EDQogIEk6IEFOUyAxIDAgLiAxMDMg MTYgMQ0KICBJOg0KICBJOiAgQ29udGFjdCBUdXR0bGUuRU5EDQoNCkkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlIGEgcmVx dWlyZW1lbnQgZm9yIHRoYXQgaW4gMzE5NSwgZXhwbGljaXQgb3IgaW1wbGllZC4NCg0KSW4gZWl0 aGVyIGNhc2UsIHRoZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGlzbid0IHJlbGV2YW50IHRvIHRoZSBhc3luY2hyb25v dXMgd29yaywgSSB3YXMgb25seSBleHByZXNzaW5nIG15IG9waW5pb24gdGhhdCB0aGlzIGJlaGF2 aW91ciBpcyB1bm5lY2Vzc2FyeS4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWFydGluDQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NClRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBpcyBmb3IgdGhlIGRlc2lnbmF0 ZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50IG9ubHkgYW5kIG1heQ0KY29udGFpbiBwcml2aWxlZ2VkLCBwcm9wcmlldGFy eSwgb3Igb3RoZXJ3aXNlIHByaXZhdGUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24uICANCklmIHlvdSBoYXZlIHJlY2Vp dmVkIGl0IGluIGVycm9yLCBwbGVhc2Ugbm90aWZ5IHRoZSBzZW5kZXINCmltbWVkaWF0ZWx5IGFu ZCBkZWxldGUgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsLiAgQW55IHVuYXV0aG9yaXplZCB1c2Ugb2YNCnRoaXMgZW1h aWwgaXMgcHJvaGliaXRlZC4NCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LQ0KW21mMl0NCg== From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Fri Nov 28 00:33:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98BCA3A6A84 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:33:31 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Cc" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HYurZyVzIrMX for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:33:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB4A3A6A57 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:33:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E60512DD1C8; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:33:15 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from dolphin.aspl.es (unknown [212.170.183.66]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3B052DEA3D for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:32:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dolphin.aspl.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FDEB740E8; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:30:47 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at dolphin.aspl.es Received: from dolphin.aspl.es ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (dolphin.aspl.es [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kwYlaiTm2VDn; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:30:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.132] (barracuda [10.0.0.4]) by dolphin.aspl.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0641F740D6; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:30:43 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [beepwg] Swirl - implementation of BEEP for Lua From: Francis Brosnan Blazquez To: Sam Roberts In-Reply-To: <17eac67c0811262200s5c28af05pc7633acc080bcac5@mail.gmail.com> References: <17eac67c0811262200s5c28af05pc7633acc080bcac5@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Advanced Software Production Line, S.L. Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:32:47 +0100 Message-Id: <1227861167.25381.279.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.499, requerido 6, BAYES_00 -2.60, RDNS_NONE 0.10), cc: beepwg@beepcore.org cc: Lua list X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Hi Sam, Congratulations for this new BEEP product. I've updated the list of tool kits to include it [1]. Let me know if you want something modified in [2]. Cheers! [1] http://www.beepcore.org/beep-toolkits.html [2] http://www.beepcore.org/swirl.html -- Francis Brosnan Blazquez Advanced Software Production Line, S.L. From beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Fri Nov 28 00:36:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1295B3A6A7C for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:36:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f2WE3jGRfYUC for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:36:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (hl27.dinaserver.com [82.98.144.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 461963A6A57 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:36:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from hl27.dinaserver.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C4F2E18EB; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:36:14 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: beepwg@beepcore.org Delivered-To: beepwg-lista@hl27.dinaserver.com Received: from dolphin.aspl.es (unknown [212.170.183.66]) by hl27.dinaserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6883F2DFFC0 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:36:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dolphin.aspl.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52128740E8; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:34:01 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at dolphin.aspl.es Received: from dolphin.aspl.es ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (dolphin.aspl.es [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6XcY25Fz9iqv; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:33:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.132] (barracuda [10.0.0.4]) by dolphin.aspl.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01928740D6; Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:33:56 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [beepwg] Swirl - implementation of BEEP for Lua From: Francis Brosnan Blazquez To: Sam Roberts In-Reply-To: <17eac67c0811271231h77ce4575j9b191f520034563c@mail.gmail.com> References: <17eac67c0811262200s5c28af05pc7633acc080bcac5@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811271219i4ea6ab72p816734998d6fe7ab@mail.gmail.com> <17eac67c0811271231h77ce4575j9b191f520034563c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Advanced Software Production Line, S.L. Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:36:01 +0100 Message-Id: <1227861361.25381.284.camel@vulcan.aspl.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DinaScanner: Libre de Virus, Este E-Mail no ha sido analizado. X-DinaScanner-SpamCheck: no es spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, puntaje=-2.499, requerido 6, BAYES_00 -2.60, RDNS_NONE 0.10), cc: beepwg@beepcore.org X-BeenThere: beepwg@beepcore.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Sender: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Errors-To: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org X-DinaScanner-Information: DinaScanner. Filtro anti-Spam y anti-Virus X-DinaScanner-From: beepwg-bounces@beepcore.org Hi Sam, > I apologize if this is received twice. I don't think my initial send > made it through, and I am having trouble verifying from the beepwg > archives. The link here is broken: > > http://beepcore.org/mailman/listinfo/beepwg My fault. List archives are now supported on a google group [1]. I've updated the list info page to point to it. Your previous message reached the list. Cheers! [1] http://groups.google.com/group/beepwg/topics -- Francis Brosnan Blazquez Advanced Software Production Line, S.L. From kronhard@alkon-pc.de Sat Nov 29 22:18:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C623A69F6 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:18:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -21.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_80=2, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gs2QyflPWNQy for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from VDSL-130-13-161-183.PHNX.QWEST.NET (VDSL-130-13-161-183.PHNX.QWEST.NET [130.13.161.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CFE9228C0FD for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:18:02 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Delivery Status Notification From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081130061802.CFE9228C0FD@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:18:02 -0800 (PST) Click here to view as a webpage. From mail@alexandriaproductions.com Sun Nov 30 13:34:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14693A693F for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:34:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.252 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.252 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_CPE=0.5, HOST_EQ_CPE=0.979, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KuqYyeeVgzu0 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:34:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-173-88-56-209.columbus.res.rr.com (cpe-173-88-56-209.columbus.res.rr.com [173.88.56.209]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5634D3A677D for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:34:45 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: Order status From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081130213446.5634D3A677D@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:34:45 -0800 (PST) Click here to view as a webpage. From loraineporterbuo@aisrisk.com Sun Nov 30 23:18:14 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-beep-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C3F13A69C9 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:18:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -53.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-53.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_RU=0.595, HOST_EQ_RU=0.875, HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 42F-t4wS9H3R for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:18:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp91-76-43-19.pppoe.mtu-net.ru (ppp91-76-43-19.pppoe.mtu-net.ru [91.76.43.19]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2996E3A6826 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:18:11 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Barack Obama's Victory Speech From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081201071812.2996E3A6826@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:18:11 -0800 (PST)
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