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Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:15:03 +0000 From: Magnus Westerlund To: "behave@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Closing the mailing list Thread-Index: AdXHr2UQn4C/NyBlT3aFBjhutf/yPA== Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:15:03 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [192.176.1.87] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8bc0bf6a-ca50-4033-8495-08d795c6b900 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR07MB4853: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691; x-forefront-prvs: 02788FF38E x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(136003)(39860400002)(376002)(366004)(396003)(346002)(189003)(199004)(9686003)(55016002)(66556008)(66476007)(66946007)(66446008)(66616009)(64756008)(6916009)(2906002)(76116006)(71200400001)(5660300002)(81156014)(33656002)(316002)(86362001)(7696005)(3480700007)(8936002)(52536014)(186003)(558084003)(6506007)(26005)(81166006)(44832011)(8676002)(478600001)(223123001)(130980200001); 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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01D5C7B7.F75BF880" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8bc0bf6a-ca50-4033-8495-08d795c6b900 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Jan 2020 12:15:03.4247 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: wcSNRQorObLEJNytYVplTRQOA+F9Pk9XYDwdlWs8LtzEWuhaKv1TIR6pKhh/QoBpZ5xm/5WpRjutRDSJCW5ATogxKZmkvALMVzLi3he+A40= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB4853 Archived-At: Subject: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:15:09 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01D5C7B7.F75BF880 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0027_01D5C7B7.F75BF880" ------=_NextPart_001_0027_01D5C7B7.F75BF880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I am now closing the behave mailing list. Based on the lack of traffic on this list the last years it is clear that it can be safely closed down. I want to thank you all that contributed to the Behave WG. Cheers Magnus Westerlund TSV AD ------=_NextPart_001_0027_01D5C7B7.F75BF880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

I am now closing the behave mailing = list. Based on the lack of traffic on this list the last years it is = clear that it can be safely closed down.

 

I want to thank you all that = contributed to the Behave WG.

 

Cheers

 

Magnus = Westerlund

TSV AD

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behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D8921208AB for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 04:38:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.869 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.869 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yqm0boZA4c3S for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 04:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CD581208ED for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 04:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21234548047; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 13:38:41 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 193DC440059; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 13:38:41 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 13:38:41 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Magnus Westerlund Cc: "behave@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:38:50 -0000 Thanks for sending the email, Magnus. IMHO: Too bad. Of course, folks who did not partake in BEHAVE would have no idea that BEHAVE would be the right mailing list to ask about NAT/ALG/FW transit questions, so the name is certainly not helpful to encourage communications, but i can as of yet not see that the underlying issues that led to BEHAVE have vanished from the Internet and even more so private networks, and any other WG we have might be even less of a welcoming community to discuss NAT issues sould they arise (just imaginging how welcoming 6man is to any poor folks that (think they) really need IPv6/IPv6 NAT). Whats the benefit of closing the list ? If someone has calculated that the 20 KByte of disk space required to maintain it on IETF servers costs 50 cents/quarter, i am happy to shoulder that cost. Reminds me of fukoshima. There was a nice report that the last really bad flood was something like 80 years ago, so everbody warning to continue to be prepared died, and hence fukoshima was built as badly as it was. Or if that was too far fetched: As long as NAT exists as a challenge for the Internet, we should have a mailing list like BEHAVE, absence of communications is just ongoing luck (or bad naming) but no argument for removing the list (IMHO). Cheers Toerless On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 12:15:03PM +0000, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > Hi, > > > > I am now closing the behave mailing list. Based on the lack of traffic on > this list the last years it is clear that it can be safely closed down. > > > > I want to thank you all that contributed to the Behave WG. > > > > Cheers > > > > Magnus Westerlund > > TSV AD > > _______________________________________________ > Behave mailing list > Behave@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Fri Jan 10 07:46:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74DA120089 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 07:46:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UFYi5ldCX7y9 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 07:46:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF9E3120048 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 07:46:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226DC3897D; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A65043D2; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:46:35 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Toerless Eckert , Magnus Westerlund , "behave\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:46:40 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Toerless Eckert wrote: > Whats the benefit of closing the list ? If someone has calculated that > the 20 KByte of disk space required to maintain it on IETF servers costs > 50 cents/quarter, i am happy to shoulder that cost. I also don't know why we close lists for WGs that have documents in the wild. The result is that we can't process errata. If you get stream of unsubscribes are a result of this thread, fine, people have sorted themselves. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl4YnFsACgkQgItw+93Q 3WX0jwgAnzZ6SGbUFVu95xxaCxXElFsTgDEkWOb8NNv2xeV6rom8CO+55FAQkUWN MUkWx5f8nvu1CygFKlIqV3b2Z/uJk0BNZhRn9JKAfQu3sfJSYGYNB8S5Uk3WQ7+P JmFqdu04gpYAxO1Qf050YwldAq39p+HzsrZe1nsLVaGMrb1Dqb0sHQJKRGkJqIgk O9I63GrXsSyqFADkP9+YqEAI0WrIzQkOzCN9bXVrIU6942amnfeea0gZdp08/kVE pu4JdwnP6oeKSgN+r0kUxLysLzkgCzhabMmojRUCpHHacomEX1Q7wZ1Yslf1mvhU hbsNpwQ+R7/ITuI9Dn7QVrcFxzhF+w== =8XbA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Jan 10 16:01:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2A80120129 for ; 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Sat, 11 Jan 2020 00:00:50 +0000 From: Dave Thaler To: Michael Richardson , Toerless Eckert , Magnus Westerlund , "behave@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list Thread-Index: AdXHr2UQn4C/NyBlT3aFBjhutf/yPAAA35OAAAaP9YAAEQyT4A== Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 00:00:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <29758.1578671195@localhost> In-Reply-To: <29758.1578671195@localhost> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SiteId=72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Owner=dthaler@ntdev.microsoft.com; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SetDate=2020-01-11T00:00:50.3533551Z; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Name=General; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Application=Microsoft Azure Information Protection; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BL0PR2101MB1124; H:BL0PR2101MB1027.namprd21.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: c3lBFOA4o8unvZC/79VZCaAMY0h4EI2QRHPAl2DFx0PR4FdCqjkrphaufKdRE4aN5rT+aGvplbyJiajjXyQQwfq5KeiZ0lRGp6MLBxN7XogJiH4Hid7Q48J+3aXh3AUOdI2vMLxf5OWzpAPj4dw2Z5dMLtE6im0bND6dL807Pfxnnjfn6URiZ0b+m11QKlSVQHtEGod/Eh4BqfQfbcVmcjFPUNWe+bZdU653Y9hswrnPEsnv8CfRkYM8qINW8ApF5kys8vXMenrb3cfknp40cNxAqPbgT+x98Ar2GzHCYK3N85jNvzm+AbdK//7FJeSNjyPDDcmbhR8pAwNtkdHRG+YoXdXY0RxTCB4ujPhftsh7eRGT15XGhc0ART8pU1OYU7arrL3aTTuSEyMsysbyZQevuEeeJfEfOfZBvwlezIlEdl+157WEbSYbIZctPJ4pgGGsZ9XpXHb7bsl38fzS3xCTm7mqaUYXfsGn177A43SehB2xvk7C6DL9iyUUwvrbbEg/4y48Ypxn+iWfJLKCveSzIMQCiQYE0DpH5JGhcprlUrzoAUAkfhVk1+ZXKCEt x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cad1ca45-5915-4005-22c2-08d796295192 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Jan 2020 00:00:50.1272 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ccLYnskgB3XPQz09Fxdp1cOFqMK+qxPswhHY76EYTCgTQI52dI00cBS/ywdO7NGh2hELOCRlledMMJtNeXFOT84yCBTQkM7Mfi/ehsaqLP4= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR2101MB1124 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 00:00:54 -0000 The Behave WG was closed 7 years ago and documents moved to other groups li= ke TRAM (WG still open) and PCP (WG now also closed), or the transport area list. This list had some discussion up through 2018 or so, but since then has had= no substantial discussions. In the past year there have only been 3 messages, all of which came from th= e AD and got no responses. Most messages to the behave list are spam that I have to deal with frequent= ly so others don't. I don't see that this list has provided any real value in over a year so I = have no objection to closing it and redirecting any future queries to another list (whether TRAM or TSVWG o= r whatever else). Dave Thaler List Moderator and (former) Behave chair -----Original Message----- From: Behave On Behalf Of Michael Richardson Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 7:47 AM To: Toerless Eckert ; Magnus Westerlund ; behave@ietf.org Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list Toerless Eckert wrote: > Whats the benefit of closing the list ? If someone has calculated tha= t > the 20 KByte of disk space required to maintain it on IETF servers co= sts > 50 cents/quarter, i am happy to shoulder that cost. I also don't know why we close lists for WGs that have documents in the wil= d. The result is that we can't process errata. If you get stream of unsubscri= bes are a result of this thread, fine, people have sorted themselves. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= =3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.sandelman.ca%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsof= t.com%7C234ad8b79b024142066408d795e44ea1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47= %7C1%7C0%7C637142680646046670&sdata=3DGFpyb7XoX%2BWJqZrjsSsWRa8SfGSuLxY= B4FK1VnRbaOI%3D&reserved=3D0 | ruby on rails [ From nobody Fri Jan 10 16:47:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E59EF12012D for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:47:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ne-ziug5qIYp for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:47:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x530.google.com (mail-pg1-x530.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::530]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1AC6120120 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:47:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x530.google.com with SMTP id k25so1769827pgt.7 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:47:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=01Kp5nKk3wyCXVWE9uF9A5UffqMWV+r0g/8SOcMI6F4=; b=P5+Ik1WwVi9Ix+6kixVgH84gD3M/gMWra8VuMAHF4A/aLSa2lBV3y6VM/vI9LAEgk5 CiajuzXY5BfDGfSTPCySxAcsmmhaVB18NkLk4VEVLTVyWra38hTBeZuONqdSnOrTUD/Y 5B5pnDeKOtbSQQ22MEp4mNn+InoAzaSr25x5zUr9T6f389ixgq4S3xkC2sHNMyFZXUX4 NBjbhHBf9nAj1TATkDZFILMWTOWs9qUQicZ86eCoNe1hIDn2xR4e3t+cKNMj73Fy8+N0 ROCdlwsGv+6OH/phX2KFqpDOxQUf0e610zET0CMGsPWOMIiQan7mGKwFryoLu8pNdRXQ mC9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=01Kp5nKk3wyCXVWE9uF9A5UffqMWV+r0g/8SOcMI6F4=; b=KgH59zSDx3+IqAtF/o7s3xwY2SaTcwTxik4oWz558Tu0pTIg0ScpuiokKCpVKn3nro 4ny+7uBD3DEPobjrnIa7yfqOL2vqG1efecNN9mAg1ceTM6pc+7fpwQMe5p9B3FyhZLFP ox9cLZAfsxi/pmwOWdkGYmdiWAD6D5RR6nP/i7GtwdWanA0jpELvLd0zzdNIqbz28bzU ztxSNDs3CS0r2dZOIlYxoTrpzto7T31Z5ljhNWPv+BW4szJzM+A28C39uT7YeFcwDw0G 1n76X8VtjRVjtQzJDBTSuWYGSDKyXtWV62nQNUrsMv9yjDkdOTBldHXxB6adh/dyuwxR gFBg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUJCLqLuxf8K9JsOsOPifvvfByWq0umM0VjSvk3LmfWvJ8l6/vW gr/weHSvUgedF2divNzWZUNRKgw9emo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzKfRiYRTOAUB1oY4NFjV59pvwoTlPt0t94DCxMA5vLxNDSGv6zKi3teFaiSDRv5ori5MKCbA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:cb06:: with SMTP id p6mr7722582pgg.236.1578703655682; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:47:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.53] (47-208-190-34.trckcmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net. [47.208.190.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k3sm4119061pgc.3.2020.01.10.16.47.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:47:34 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) From: Dan Wing In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:47:33 -0800 Cc: Michael Richardson , Dave Thaler , Toerless Eckert , "behave@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <29758.1578671195@localhost> To: Magnus Westerlund X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 00:47:41 -0000 BEHAVE's most impactful work, NAT64 and DNS64, have finished and cause = little-to-no discussion. The related important work, 464xlat, was in = v6ops because BEHAVE had closed by then. The issues of ALGs remains but = fortunately the strong trend towards encryption prevents ALGs from = harming protocol enhancements. The big take-away from BEHAVE is adding = more technical workarounds to patch over inadequate endpoints builds = more fragile systems. I have brought that learning into other protocols = and into my day job. TSVWG is a great place to continue any NAT- or = BEHAVE-related topics, as necessary. Thanks to everyone for the opportunity I received to co-chair BEHAVE for = several years. -d > On Jan 10, 2020, at 4:00 PM, Dave Thaler = wrote: >=20 > The Behave WG was closed 7 years ago and documents moved to other = groups like TRAM (WG still open) > and PCP (WG now also closed), or the transport area list. >=20 > This list had some discussion up through 2018 or so, but since then = has had no substantial discussions. > In the past year there have only been 3 messages, all of which came = from the AD and got no responses. >=20 > Most messages to the behave list are spam that I have to deal with = frequently so others don't. >=20 > I don't see that this list has provided any real value in over a year = so I have no objection to closing it > and redirecting any future queries to another list (whether TRAM or = TSVWG or whatever else). >=20 > Dave Thaler > List Moderator and (former) Behave chair >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Behave On Behalf Of Michael Richardson > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 7:47 AM > To: Toerless Eckert ; Magnus Westerlund = ; behave@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list >=20 >=20 > Toerless Eckert wrote: >> Whats the benefit of closing the list ? If someone has calculated = that >> the 20 KByte of disk space required to maintain it on IETF servers = costs >> 50 cents/quarter, i am happy to shoulder that cost. >=20 > I also don't know why we close lists for WGs that have documents in = the wild. > The result is that we can't process errata. If you get stream of = unsubscribes are a result of this thread, fine, people have sorted = themselves. >=20 > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh = networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT = architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca = https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.san= delman.ca%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C234ad8b79b0241= 42066408d795e44ea1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6371426806= 46046670&sdata=3DGFpyb7XoX%2BWJqZrjsSsWRa8SfGSuLxYB4FK1VnRbaOI%3D&= reserved=3D0 | ruby on rails [ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Behave mailing list > Behave@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave From nobody Sat Jan 11 05:13:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BEDD12006F for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 05:13:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.442 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.442 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zoXJHRuCzpfH for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 05:13:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from implementers.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4b98:dc0:45:216:3eff:fe7f:7abd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BE55120013 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 05:13:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2601:648:8400:8e7d:9d31:80fb:9b8f:2ef8] (unknown [IPv6:2601:648:8400:8e7d:9d31:80fb:9b8f:2ef8]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02B59AE009; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 14:13:50 +0100 (CET) To: Magnus Westerlund , "behave@ietf.org" References: From: Marc Petit-Huguenin Autocrypt: addr=petithug@acm.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE6Mh9wBEADrUEDZChteJbQtsHwZITZExr7TAqT7pniNwhBX3nFgd+FrV3lsLKJ1rym2 52MAYpubXEJZGzMp6uCCAnROWbtmQbOm8z/jHnjxHhPqfuYCYPpAQqu8K/Sc194Rp37krMwB jz32yr7+gvWLzRgQGKIh9d2mzy8QLMETVWWQWGb6fEfpOxXo0wumN1rc/275kZwOu44JIPGg zbgwZdnEqYOUUa18K9MXeRDoWbwDISP30CvKuZDwD14lbBE3o7tBQrU9uoMhE7eFlTjbsCox qoubI2tZSuOTF8mRXjPmNrRGtf9mYkQnOB7y6qy/QxmOVMq4IRtHzOYIm/EZ6NTodcpZQHOM 2v6B6YK9uKrYrapSpJzn4f9oU7alT31Y3o2hOlxAWDQ16+Dd1MOPYsKQXOwY1/ihm4PTjiJ8 ud8yPzy7c+BSVs5wkBU6QuLNIgZHrrxdn+KxM+F/oAVtfzO7XzVoeOcXyWi3/CHL5pgoBruY enIF/RrRuplpy09pvZjmFPNfqKBYJGnqpQuqsQwO7LsFqDqfY2EuHg+KsGN1XuN+jxXc48/1 gCnKw7ALSPWEb7g25wD6KfiZTAcyRTG8LePNFQKhw61LbIWmkw9EaVLyXvwPTc1iCSc0dDT/ pcT/z+8xrWOyWGZNZAjR584NlDpKollbItcxYtFcYZkvTCmOVwARAQABtCZNYXJjIFBldGl0 LUh1Z3VlbmluIDxwZXRpdGh1Z0BhY20ub3JnPokCOAQTAQgAIgIbIwYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoL BBYCAwECHgECF4AFAlfy11wACgkQKcRFldZqfsRWqBAAu/61DGo+j38UefTKnEse0mftPBXa S4lre7vknn33MI0L5QXmiM8zRs9FOKSuXPx0EV+JhI4pWZGW/2MJPuyifXHvnIChcdGInN8J GBdTLZSOgdDFZL9msO+QUsvMA8ZUsqlKOEcVL1NyoLupblCWNq4fYhBCx1zDwX9LZSuGn8lZ Mk8a4QFGoR6dWKaOxeCwnoquW5IK1CfRIhYjHfQMjA5gY0H46F0iCqBaFF/S7krQwIJd0XN4 YbSL4KOrWuxtgQ+iH/iaxxBXgJ1blBNRzXaWJBF4PHv23nSnEzWO17j+uVMaHJu7ycYEf8T9 pVc0xcok1BM2rCrNE5FUFAzsUtAtBZEEK6sSIeOhRG93uD/Hv1hrWzEwf+Z7B1tVQLCQQ4kL 7wyS7SXI/JTuW2xTEGCmwMeWYGERdkgsatmx4zi5nVHDjt3/mlPMj4L+u05SkI2iV4W6xxU1 jHlBIJDs7AVM0dsxzTyIPf2Sz843WyHuBgkoCskxGfOwlkZzDX9rwcWRKal1wjy1w/25LsBY U50INandw3UbrS2I73VX8ARI8uOWZrW7uzRLf8EmuPhtSQ35ThmdoNSgGMP9EXwNgzi/i+5G hbX5KbrSLG9SITFJEcJA4tnwu3nqmBh7D7vbd5ln5X7rmqPdyjidt0zcSjvuaBA+nkmakA4A O+choWy5Ag0EToyH3AEQAL+LguHhcSDCL/IevdcvH/5/fzO2fmuuTxdGwrZZSm7l6/HD2Ira h6Wpa1LvVeRbnsRq8k6O8/i3wVapEoQPmNY3vjWfXaJb8R4vHcqgcxw9N9jhZa+mvGJk9+cI ilDyPzHRBBID4d/3oFKQCQ4Y2SIkO66znPhfBOS2f2AU7AtXHhVEyj6WsLK6boEMcj7j+w5a es2nZam0jhgoz+4DQem4uk8outrRlboGnZN7A2kCNuy39UeOp7BpvQ95IKcJCIeSoiJt2A4B NPQroqhW0zGn9Y9FJ9UiZ9YIeNPYbscUxxvrD+OU9Jv67hW0v3KfvoIKDwVKpO3MW6o+1teS Gt1KCSz+CvGJCvIxfCk7S5K5SBne7ZNKz7rkGXYIzlyr7ZoEgRHmqGmcK/sHTS4e6g2pQQrR USkspyqLZl5Uzmg7yI5oGBL0aHTzYdDkkOKMRXYnl7ivBeNtGcniGqlONLJxpbwec8j7hLRq pXFuepbtPqX/GefuK8rdo+ppEqpRJ50cJTegchTfWfSjn5/mG1B4Oz9OnOcBEeTLO729n0K9 BeTx1pmisD6P/fyrqZZTozDwVEi7Wo9AOaqWOhuTe8L0FlFIk6fc/yM0wzvDWP7sNrevEYHK V9rd+Yc/Jjt293J4uayrt6DNMmSkAw3nlBq3uK5d54J0FAsAUcsE/W2/ABEBAAGJAh8EGAEI AAkCGwwFAlfy11wACgkQKcRFldZqfsSQyA/+Kx3eWtKyb/y35TjgtjT/Hrtw+aIpr1uK97LA ln1j5m7+lQ/jh0/rvSZjs+YQMYLqVGI8oaaF/u+qrokkU6pfrhVZ49D1BmmSTMBSYgnBDYqZ yZ+uzQnnDYt/mpo2OLbl9BhuifR5QXLp43cE1FIhyDT46wfse5tNZ+ll4m4HtXuTw4W3b4cP Hto10260Mki7hXbkDMZ+icBFDMkrrZyYHSnBhelzIM7XnY7A/XZdulfFcDXEcZhAFEv3ylJs xTnGwzDyP1VAdBFL3hpP1CqfP1Kti4hKcxXZYbIgTSsBjcYbPchw3ktUTU29I/nWKH5gmD+q wFizyhtt8Qhl6U67OdZ/XbRGBXs/7tlYJIGiGZyG7IQtDOX0PsVd+6WRcDdFqkpBwYkxU8gd iCeW+YTQ5d8mXXPT2dhFAeK2hCFa2+IdaXvH8ovjZpTMeKstHrWJUDaSqQ4GFT676DbDyqtm P6Ul9cjGVtXIs64FWqR9wrbwBH1GuIHhDmG9sN5AkyB9mxXaEG3uG4E6qQeedtIKC6p+ebAs aTGgztFWMJDC8LUznu7B0oyWxNVoE/RGt5mesOeAtqYr6Jtdh7unyk8BYP1y4e+SSMwvtwh+ 69tJwNhGYbOJrdX34tXNAKb6r/rFRjVJm+sPPs5ok7LddvV35o+Fho0LRNDsioDV3HytlhA= Message-ID: <1310c5c2-3b93-3898-0fa6-13ba41e02fb4@acm.org> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 05:13:48 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZLTcoKe700QJzLWBWfKr8xzAKL8peapAn" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 13:13:58 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --ZLTcoKe700QJzLWBWfKr8xzAKL8peapAn Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="mJD764y8dlR7pwL1wYCUSuvPuyGwvmGUV"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marc Petit-Huguenin To: Magnus Westerlund , "behave@ietf.org" Message-ID: <1310c5c2-3b93-3898-0fa6-13ba41e02fb4@acm.org> Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list References: In-Reply-To: --mJD764y8dlR7pwL1wYCUSuvPuyGwvmGUV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let use as example RFC 6889, the first RFC is the list at https://tools.i= etf.org/wg/behave/. The RFC editor page for that document (https://www.r= fc-editor.org/info/rfc6889) explicitly says: "Discuss this RFC: Send questions or comments to behave@ietf.org" After closing the behave mailing list, will that page be updated to point= to tsvwg@ietf.org? If yes, then I do not see any problem with closing th= e behave mailing-list. Thanks. On 1/10/20 4:15 AM, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > Hi, >=20 > =20 >=20 > I am now closing the behave mailing list. Based on the lack of traffic = on > this list the last years it is clear that it can be safely closed down.= =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > I want to thank you all that contributed to the Behave WG. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Cheers >=20 > =20 >=20 > Magnus Westerlund >=20 > TSV AD >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Behave mailing list > Behave@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave >=20 --=20 Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug --mJD764y8dlR7pwL1wYCUSuvPuyGwvmGUV-- --ZLTcoKe700QJzLWBWfKr8xzAKL8peapAn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEBSI+IuCHU8MsI1GjKcRFldZqfsQFAl4ZygwACgkQKcRFldZq fsTJMA//UXtccplcM5LEwire1d/ygbJ0BpaFrUCHnaj/i1IN2zLT6kmkl/8NaCaU QL+QjXWkG2IgSz48RGvbxCS8nuo81a2jqKRwOgRE7pFFAFhYlg8hA0WxC4KnC9BU PaVxDyvq0ICb50q0BHjNlWSle4Ot7nIwdyT0Ohb6yFrs01CIhxlslO71sHW8aHcB E2HsmF73gGKEd7NQSKzZjaEd3BoIM5tDWHJo/PTiYozj6NkNCeEVOxcu8EWV0Cpz CZdPbKZuFo7yBvr2tbRNLWbH9VHHYU4L4H/AI3Z7ZMts5zUY23WI/CssRKB4w4Kp 45kf6O+E6uOLe3tL6+nUE9bfNDlbUTDNWJp84LBGe/3RDzndPMqwTW0cW5xd1CKk enA07bez0P6Cl0ZRu+EI5MV9ezAZjTv7xHBSSTHRePESHFTCwU++ichBAWfdyq+L Ko8ItOv5R+jyPNtpQvdGI6jLaySakRFWch1bqyzwiuu4kNyeaKVKmeB6xLrocDd5 oPpiNAFGq3nRJBgkhwgoy6+INN0xpaeKhDhbXokDuOUOMYLdVE/wvSdysovTJcmc yvb7dn2YGZqbPu9kDprwAzFN9G6M8cQTc67v47JYCB5gW/bPfF2jTDx1av6z6Hgt WAGakPOlgoo+FjdxcOUrFIZlx2oelnuh8HlBy5puzx95DbPfHm0= =se8F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZLTcoKe700QJzLWBWfKr8xzAKL8peapAn-- From nobody Mon Jan 13 01:28:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCAAE1200D6 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:28:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.95 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.95 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rVQ6id87x0FB for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A969E1200D5 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6287C54804A; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 10:28:04 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 57D81440059; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 10:28:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 10:28:04 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Dave Thaler Cc: Michael Richardson , Magnus Westerlund , "behave@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20200113092804.GE14549@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <29758.1578671195@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:28:14 -0000 On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 12:00:50AM +0000, Dave Thaler wrote: > I don't see that this list has provided any real value in over a year so I have no objection to closing it > and redirecting any future queries to another list (whether TRAM or TSVWG or whatever else). So, i am uninitiated, i read some BEHAVE RFC and try to figure out where to ask a question. I guess i can figure out that the RFC originated from behave. How would i figure out the redirect of "Ask BEHAVE questions on TSVWG mailing list" ? Ai am not aware of any actual redirect pointers in datatracker, but hopefully i am wrong. Cheers Toerless > Dave Thaler > List Moderator and (former) Behave chair > > -----Original Message----- > From: Behave On Behalf Of Michael Richardson > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 7:47 AM > To: Toerless Eckert ; Magnus Westerlund ; behave@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list > > > Toerless Eckert wrote: > > Whats the benefit of closing the list ? If someone has calculated that > > the 20 KByte of disk space required to maintain it on IETF servers costs > > 50 cents/quarter, i am happy to shoulder that cost. > > I also don't know why we close lists for WGs that have documents in the wild. > The result is that we can't process errata. If you get stream of unsubscribes are a result of this thread, fine, people have sorted themselves. > > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sandelman.ca%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C234ad8b79b024142066408d795e44ea1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637142680646046670&sdata=GFpyb7XoX%2BWJqZrjsSsWRa8SfGSuLxYB4FK1VnRbaOI%3D&reserved=0 | ruby on rails [ > > _______________________________________________ > Behave mailing list > Behave@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Mon Jan 13 01:34:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA8471200D5 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:34:02 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Improper folded header field made up entirely of whitespace (char 20 hex): X-Spam-Report: ...nosc.ja.net for details.\n \n Content previ[...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eZkTvUHR_5Hk for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:33:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from nosc.ja.net (nosc.ja.net [IPv6:2001:630:0:40::14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 569931200B3 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:33:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from vpn-52.ja.net ([128.86.24.52] helo=Robs-MacBook-Pro.local) by nosc.ja.net with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iqw6e-0004cH-3Q for behave@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:33:57 +0000 To: behave@ietf.org References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <29758.1578671195@localhost> <20200113092804.GE14549@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: Rob Evans Message-ID: <689aead1-97a5-4aa6-0610-ee76f606001d@nosc.ja.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:33:46 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200113092804.GE14549@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:34:03 -0000 Hi, > How would i figure out the redirect of "Ask BEHAVE questions on TSVWG > mailing list" ? > > Ai am not aware of any actual redirect pointers in datatracker, but > hopefully i am wrong. If a WG has closed, then I suppose the redirect could come from asking a question on ietf@ietf? IME, it's not the bits on the server in the bowels of the IETF, mailing lists collect entropy quickly -- a list I manage has just had it's first posting for probably about a year, and there are 14 bounces that need to be culled. At which point have enough subscribers changed email address that the list is no longer useful, and how do you monitor that? Cheers, Rob From nobody Mon Jan 13 02:02:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A491F1200B3 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 02:02:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8vTwGrPRkTb4 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 02:02:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09CFF120096 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 02:02:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72BEA54804C; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 11:02:19 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 6B3B8440059; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 11:02:19 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 11:02:19 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Rob Evans Cc: behave@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200113100219.GF14549@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <29758.1578671195@localhost> <20200113092804.GE14549@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <689aead1-97a5-4aa6-0610-ee76f606001d@nosc.ja.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <689aead1-97a5-4aa6-0610-ee76f606001d@nosc.ja.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 10:02:28 -0000 On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 09:33:46AM +0000, Rob Evans wrote: > Hi, > > > How would i figure out the redirect of "Ask BEHAVE questions on TSVWG > > mailing list" ? > > > > Ai am not aware of any actual redirect pointers in datatracker, but > > hopefully i am wrong. > > If a WG has closed, then I suppose the redirect could come from asking a > question on ietf@ietf? Sure, if thats the agreed rediret resolution mechansism, it would be good if that information was stated in a sentence on the WG weg page, eg.: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/behave/about/ But if there is so little email to a closed WG mailing list, why not add ietf@ietf.org to the mailing list anyhow so that the request gets forwarded automatically ? Its not as if ietf@ietf.org would have less spam problems anyhow. > IME, it's not the bits on the server in the bowels of the IETF, mailing > lists collect entropy quickly -- a list I manage has just had it's first > posting for probably about a year, and there are 14 bounces that need to be > culled. Yes, culling of dead addresses is an astoundly rarely automated part of mailing list maintenance. Just change the mailing list to return errors to sender instead of mailing list administrator when it changes into maintenance mode (WG closed + N years). > At which point have enough subscribers changed email address that the list > is no longer useful, and how do you monitor that? Yes. Technically the best idea to me would be to remove membership from the mailing list, redirect it to ietf@ietf.org, but as part of redirect make sure that the subject is prepended with a well-known prefix like "[WGNAME]: ", so that folk interested in that (historic) topic would be able to easily filter for it and not have to continuosly track all of ietf@ietf.org. Instead of ietf@ietf.org one could of course also set up a separate list like concluded-wg@ietf.org. Cheers Toerless > > Cheers, > Rob > > _______________________________________________ > Behave mailing list > Behave@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Wed Jan 15 05:07:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50FA812021D for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 05:07:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FNrw_HTAcN2w for ; 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charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Marc, The below aspect I am investigating. I would actually assume that this is normally not updated, but is possibly something that should be improved on = so that pages are kept relevant.=20 Cheers Magnus On Sat, 2020-01-11 at 05:13 -0800, Marc Petit-Huguenin wrote: > Let use as example RFC 6889, the first RFC is the list at=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/wg/behave/. The RFC editor page for that document= ( > https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=3D26a4afbd-7a70a403-26a4ef26-86742d= 02e7e2-97c33c5e644c26cc&q=3D1&e=3De7ea07fc-a821-4aa6-a7e0-104daca937f9&u=3D= https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Finfo%2Frfc6889 > ) explicitly says: >=20 > "Discuss this RFC: Send questions or comments to behave@ietf.org" >=20 > After closing the behave mailing list, will that page be updated to point= to=20 > tsvwg@ietf.org? If yes, then I do not see any problem with closing the be= have > mailing-list. >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > On 1/10/20 4:15 AM, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > > Hi, > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > I am now closing the behave mailing list. Based on the lack of traffic = on > > this list the last years it is clear that it can be safely closed down.= =20 > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > I want to thank you all that contributed to the Behave WG. > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > Cheers > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > Magnus Westerlund > >=20 > > TSV AD > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > Behave mailing list > > Behave@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave > >=20 >=20 >=20 --=20 Cheers Magnus Westerlund=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Networks, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --=-bphql0gqj9J2YmIX3vi2 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" 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([fe80::cd9a:187a:90ab:3544%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2644.015; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 13:14:39 +0000 From: Magnus Westerlund To: "behave@ietf.org" , "mcr@sandelman.ca" , "tte@cs.fau.de" Thread-Topic: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list Thread-Index: AdXHr2UQn4C/NyBlT3aFBjhutf/yPAAA35OAAAaP9YAA9iZUgA== Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 13:14:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <29758.1578671195@localhost> In-Reply-To: <29758.1578671195@localhost> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [158.174.130.211] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9ba5c83e-5991-464a-1bdf-08d799bce03e x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR07MB4936: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 02830F0362 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-4wjEVqR4XGgwDqYN+myO" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9ba5c83e-5991-464a-1bdf-08d799bce03e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Jan 2020 13:14:38.9683 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: QBYhI2FmNU+VpEimyYov0lC56u+fiT049IKYtBbee78fcc0slQpq8jdOkfZ9/+cAAEIgF+pJNEe4OVHCwv1nlh8zB/TfAc9RaZMzSm9Gzg8= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB4936 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 13:14:52 -0000 --=-4wjEVqR4XGgwDqYN+myO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2020-01-10 at 10:46 -0500, Michael Richardson wrote: > Toerless Eckert wrote: > > Whats the benefit of closing the list ? If someone has calculated t= hat > > the 20 KByte of disk space required to maintain it on IETF servers = costs > > 50 cents/quarter, i am happy to shoulder that cost. >=20 > I also don't know why we close lists for WGs that have documents in the w= ild. > The result is that we can't process errata. If you get stream of > unsubscribes are a result of this thread, fine, people have sorted themse= lves. >=20 I think the largest cost is in volunteer effort from having someone moderat= e the list. If someone is willing to become admin of the list then I can keep it = alive for now as there apparently some that care.=20 When it comes to errata there are some benefit in the mailing list. There a= re actually 7 Errata that are not processed.=20 RFC5766 (4933) 17.3.3 Technical behave (tsv) shakeeb TEXT =09 2017-02-15 RFC5769 (4776) 2 Technical behave (tsv) software should include manufacturer and version number TEXT 2016-08-12 RFC6052 (5415) 2.2 Technical behave (tsv) Dale R. Worley TEXT =09 2018-07-01 RFC6062 (3467) 5.2. Technical behave (tsv) Nazmus Shakeeb TEXT =09 2013-01-22 RFC6145 (4090) 6 Technical behave (tsv) Fernando Gont TEXT =09 2014-08-20 RFC6146 (4756) 3.5.3 Technical behave (tsv) Alberto Leiva Popper =09 TEXT 2016-08-02 RFC7050 (5152) IANA Conside Technical behave (tsv) Mark Andrews =09 TEXT 2017-10-11 If I get recommendation for how to handle them I will sanity check the recommendation and then register it in the system.=20 Cheers Magnus Westerlund=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Networks, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --=-4wjEVqR4XGgwDqYN+myO Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" 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(ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47yTwm6ZMGzCqkl; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:19:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:19:36 +0100 From: To: Magnus Westerlund , "behave@ietf.org" , "mcr@sandelman.ca" , "tte@cs.fau.de" Thread-Topic: Errata 5415 (RE: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list) Thread-Index: AdXLrs8tI5jt9u5tQ4qJcYt8sAKAng== Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:19:35 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303140915B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303140915BOPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [BEHAVE] Errata 5415 (RE: Closing the mailing list) X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 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--_002_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303140915BOPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: attachment; creation-date="Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:19:35 GMT"; modification-date="Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:19:35 GMT" Received: from OPEXCNORMAC.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup (10.114.50.92) by OPEXCLILM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup (10.114.31.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 11:27:44 +0200 Received: from opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (10.117.32.64) by OPEXCNORMAC.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup (10.114.50.92) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.399.0; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 11:27:44 +0200 Received: from opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.81]) by opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 41Lsw01h06zDq7d; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 11:27:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [4.31.198.44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by relais-inet.orange.com (ESMTP service) with ESMTPS id 41Lsvz0ysPz5wnq; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 11:27:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C4C130F13; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 02:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B52D1130E0D; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 02:27:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E83130DEF for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 02:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oH8wzmnsjDio for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 02:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0966130DF2 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 02:27:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.11]) by opfedar20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 41LsvZ43qdz8tvF; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 11:27:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.42]) by opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 41LsvZ1GLlzCqkb; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 11:27:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM41.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c845:f762:8997:ec86%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 11:27:20 +0200 From: To: RFC Errata System , "congxiao@cernet.edu.cn" , "huitema@microsoft.com" , "marcelo@it.uc3m.es" , BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN , "xing@cernet.edu.cn" , "spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com" , "ietf@kuehlewind.net" , "dwing@cisco.com" , "dthaler@microsoft.com" CC: "worley@ariadne.com" , "behave@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6052 (5415) Thread-Topic: [BEHAVE] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6052 (5415) Thread-Index: AQHUEUHkYOVKg+6YCESC57ED0TtRCaSAXrKQ Sender: Behave Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 09:27:20 +0000 Message-ID: <80aeee21-d6b8-446d-a5a0-c4e728f39586@OPEXCLILM41.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <20180701134549.0E7B2B80CCA@rfc-editor.org> List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , In-Reply-To: <20180701134549.0E7B2B80CCA@rfc-editor.org> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthSource: OPEXCNORMAC.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup X-MS-Has-Attach: X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.2] dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1530782849; bh=nC2AMei40CqaXfNyrfX83kWioJy92aWcwU9A7Gn3ioo=; h=From:To:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:List-Id: List-Unsubscribe:List-Archive:List-Post:List-Help:List-Subscribe: Cc; b=Ur54QThd9ZuuO+luECrf1PwAyxopIkWf6cdAkZXHcZmryUV7Ces2C+TSTdF3vxKNr PF2udM3Ggxsp2NH2SQOX9bZN56ssZjyHwHyyAYLteE3Psqul+gYYqIgQ1fN+J/bpFi hqF6ipQa/n0BWZiayiKTNNRT7kWc3X9m4Yvct7Kk= list-id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG errors-to: behave-bounces@ietf.org x-spam-status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no x-virus-scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com x-spam-level: list-post: list-archive: x-mailman-version: 2.1.26 x-beenthere: behave@ietf.org delivered-to: behave@ietfa.amsl.com x-original-to: behave@ietfa.amsl.com x-spam-flag: NO x-spam-score: -2.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <6EDE1EDC8000FF4C8764ADFFF4B38963@adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Dear Dale, Thank you for formally raising the point. I do think that the u byte makes things complex and is not justified any mo= re. Nevertheless, that artificially boundary was provisioned for "historica= l" reasons that were clarified in RFC 7136. The community considered in the past updating RFC6052 to reflect that. For = example, you may refer to https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/softwires/current/msg05508.html, but = even at that time, the consensus of the softwire wg was to follow RFC6052 a= s it is (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7599). I suggest to maintain RFC6052 as it is. The harm is behind us given the ins= talled deployment base: RFC6052-based implementations are widely deployed. = It is key for all IPv6-only deployments in cellular networks over the world= .. There is more harm in updating its vs. maintain it because of interoperabil= ity issue. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Behave [mailto:behave-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de RFC Errata Sys= tem > Envoy=E9 : dimanche 1 juillet 2018 15:46 > =C0 : congxiao@cernet.edu.cn; huitema@microsoft.com; marcelo@it.uc3m.es; > mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com; xing@cernet.edu.cn; > spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com; ietf@kuehlewind.net; dwing@cisco.com; > dthaler@microsoft.com > Cc : worley@ariadne.com; behave@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > Objet : [BEHAVE] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6052 (5415) > > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6052, > "IPv6 Addressing of IPv4/IPv6 Translators". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5415 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Dale R. Worley > > Section: 2.2 > > Original Text > ------------- > Bits 64 to 71 of the address are reserved for compatibility with the > host identifier format defined in the IPv6 addressing architecture > [RFC4291]. These bits MUST be set to zero. When using a /96 > Network-Specific Prefix, the administrators MUST ensure that the bits > 64 to 71 are set to zero. A simple way to achieve that is to > construct the /96 Network-Specific Prefix by picking a /64 prefix, > and then adding 4 octets set to zero. > > [and other parts of the text] > > > Corrected Text > -------------- > [This paragraph should be removed and corresponding changes made to > the rest of section 2.2.] > > Notes > ----- > Section 2.2 says that bits 64 to 71 of the Ipv6 address MUST be set to ze= ro > and references RFC 4291 as the authority. However, RFC 7136 says: > > In particular, RFC 4291 defines a method by which the > Universal and Group bits of an IEEE link-layer address are mapped > into an IPv6 unicast interface identifier. This document clarifies > that those two bits are significant only in the process of deriving > interface identifiers from an IEEE link-layer address, and it updates > RFC 4291 accordingly. > > Thus, the text I've referenced in RFC 6052 is to enforce a requirement th= at > was not correctly applied, and RFC 6052's statement about bits 64 to 71 > should be removed. In addition, there are consequent changes in other pa= rts > of RFC 6052, including Figure 1, where the "u" field should be removed fr= om > the address formats. > > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC6052 (draft-ietf-behave-address-format-10) > -------------------------------------- > Title : IPv6 Addressing of IPv4/IPv6 Translators > Publication Date : October 2010 > Author(s) : C. Bao, C. Huitema, M. Bagnulo, M. Boucadair, X. Li > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Behavior Engineering for Hindrance Avoidance > Area : Transport > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG > > _______________________________________________ > Behave mailing list > Behave@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave _______________________________________________ Behave mailing list Behave@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave --_002_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303140915BOPEXCAUBMA2corp_-- From nobody Thu Jan 16 01:35:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB235120020 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 01:35:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-AZvbeyENNq/J4y3FK/0l" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 60b595c3-7939-4af0-d762-08d79a676ce7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Jan 2020 09:35:29.3777 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: hjqAciLuVcDfCCxGwB55Q2JBgspiQ2kblN2879isj4wjcYFYc7NE1WcZHJQxpYTtRt6ffzoKBhS9YWrOZnHYu0++qoW45BPhh7C8E3IKYhc= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB6155 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 09:35:39 -0000 --=-AZvbeyENNq/J4y3FK/0l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, As I received an volunteer to admin the mailing list I will leave it open. Thanks Michael Richardson.=20 Cheers Magnus Westerlund On Fri, 2020-01-10 at 12:15 +0000, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > Hi, > =20 > I am now closing the behave mailing list. Based on the lack of traffic on= this > list the last years it is clear that it can be safely closed down. > =20 > I want to thank you all that contributed to the Behave WG. > =20 > Cheers > =20 > Magnus Westerlund > TSV AD > _______________________________________________ > Behave mailing list > Behave@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave --=20 Cheers Magnus Westerlund=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Networks, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --=-AZvbeyENNq/J4y3FK/0l Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bXnafjiA5oVG; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 02:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E82212001E; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 02:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 43FEFF40723; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 02:40:12 -0800 (PST) To: worley@ariadne.com, congxiao@cernet.edu.cn, huitema@microsoft.com, marcelo@it.uc3m.es, mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com, xing@cernet.edu.cn X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, iesg@ietf.org, behave@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20200116104012.43FEFF40723@rfc-editor.org> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 02:40:12 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [BEHAVE] [Errata Rejected] RFC6052 (5415) X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:40:21 -0000 The following errata report has been rejected for RFC6052, "IPv6 Addressing of IPv4/IPv6 Translators". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5415 -------------------------------------- Status: Rejected Type: Technical Reported by: Dale R. Worley Date Reported: 2018-07-01 Rejected by: Magnus Westerlund (IESG) Section: 2.2 Original Text ------------- Bits 64 to 71 of the address are reserved for compatibility with the host identifier format defined in the IPv6 addressing architecture [RFC4291]. These bits MUST be set to zero. When using a /96 Network-Specific Prefix, the administrators MUST ensure that the bits 64 to 71 are set to zero. A simple way to achieve that is to construct the /96 Network-Specific Prefix by picking a /64 prefix, and then adding 4 octets set to zero. [and other parts of the text] Corrected Text -------------- [This paragraph should be removed and corresponding changes made to the rest of section 2.2.] Notes ----- Section 2.2 says that bits 64 to 71 of the Ipv6 address MUST be set to zero and references RFC 4291 as the authority. However, RFC 7136 says: In particular, RFC 4291 defines a method by which the Universal and Group bits of an IEEE link-layer address are mapped into an IPv6 unicast interface identifier. This document clarifies that those two bits are significant only in the process of deriving interface identifiers from an IEEE link-layer address, and it updates RFC 4291 accordingly. Thus, the text I've referenced in RFC 6052 is to enforce a requirement that was not correctly applied, and RFC 6052's statement about bits 64 to 71 should be removed. In addition, there are consequent changes in other parts of RFC 6052, including Figure 1, where the "u" field should be removed from the address formats. --VERIFIER NOTES-- AD (Magnus Westerlund): A clarification by a later RFC that impacts this RFC is not an errata. The change appears to require a consensus decision on how to handle it. Thus rejected on formal grounds, should be considered if document is revised in the future. -------------------------------------- RFC6052 (draft-ietf-behave-address-format-10) -------------------------------------- Title : IPv6 Addressing of IPv4/IPv6 Translators Publication Date : October 2010 Author(s) : C. Bao, C. Huitema, M. Bagnulo, M. Boucadair, X. Li Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Behavior Engineering for Hindrance Avoidance Area : Transport Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Thu Jan 16 15:02:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E9CD1200C3 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:02:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t-lq6tm6pqs0 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:02:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB331120099 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:02:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 928B63897D; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 18:02:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA8FE7F; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 18:02:49 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: "behave\@ietf.org" , "tte\@cs.fau.de" In-Reply-To: References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <29758.1578671195@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 23:02:55 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Magnus Westerlund wrote: > When it comes to errata there are some benefit in the mailing list. There are > actually 7 Errata that are not processed. exactly. > RFC5766 (4933) 17.3.3 Technical behave (tsv) shakeeb TEXT > 2017-02-15 > RFC5769 (4776) 2 Technical behave (tsv) software should include > manufacturer and version number TEXT 2016-08-12 > RFC6052 (5415) 2.2 Technical behave (tsv) Dale R. Worley TEXT > 2018-07-01 > RFC6062 (3467) 5.2. Technical behave (tsv) Nazmus Shakeeb TEXT > 2013-01-22 > RFC6145 (4090) 6 Technical behave (tsv) Fernando Gont TEXT > 2014-08-20 > RFC6146 (4756) 3.5.3 Technical behave (tsv) Alberto Leiva Popper > TEXT 2016-08-02 > RFC7050 (5152) IANA Conside Technical behave (tsv) Mark Andrews > TEXT 2017-10-11 > If I get recommendation for how to handle them I will sanity check the > recommendation and then register it in the system. okay, I guess we need to read them and post some suggestions. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl4g65kACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXNbgf/Qtcm77XuLofo2F5KOEh11fQ0ZxUWiXkBXWR2z0QW8bNukYOVLOwsgzjD b1KlBI0SqwxHAGo+3KHRp70mla43XRylreM62a8gOKFkXTePbhobaM25IQZ35pZ/ aRwkvJJZcbajecExNqAioraU9gYiO3O7Vbtwn7COXEB8CN7k2Upxe4HagUbCL130 lF56rRGnKDG2Kjxi0HWu3IDVzQdCUaVAq+EfESjBsVkYKjJ7k0S+xU1QfVhYMPLX N95JFsU1N0YVH8mSuIj0/CBPrFCJK20pYFqJJ8095AznLNeztO/6sJuYiyrzWZ/6 C7CF3kW5LbKli07rcqSPafG59evhfw== =D8/L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Jan 16 15:11:19 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B8781200CC for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:11:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dq4sCAiPRh6V for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 636C21200BA for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3CC3897D for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 18:10:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D874D98 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 18:11:14 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: "behave\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <29758.1578671195@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [BEHAVE] errata 4933: RFC 5766 prevent spoofed refresh requests when using short-term credentials X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 23:11:18 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=4933 4933> Section 17.3.3 says: 4933> An attacker might attempt to disrupt service to other users of the 4933> TURN server by sending Refresh requests or CreatePermission requests 4933> that (through source address spoofing) appear to be coming from 4933> another user of the TURN server. TURN prevents this by requiring 4933> that the credentials used in CreatePermission, Refresh, and 4933> ChannelBind messages match those used to create the initial 4933> allocation. Thus, the fake requests from the attacker will be 4933> rejected. 4933> Notes: 4933> When using short-term, credentials expire after a specific amount of time 4933> (such as 5 4933> minutes) and clients get new credentials. The restriction imposed at section 4933> 17.3.3 4933> prevents from refreshing allocation or permission using the new credentials. 4933> This RFC approves RFC 5389. So one can use short-term credentials. But 4933> short-term credentials are useless if it can not be used to refresh 4933> allocation or permission. 4933> The goal of 17.3.3 can be achieved by sending 438 with the new nonce. a) I think we should accept this as verified. b) It seems that sending with the new nonce will work. This requires some text changes, and we can now perhaps use the errata patcher with XML. I've asked for the XML (if there is any), and I'll suggest some changes to the text. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl4g7ZIACgkQgItw+93Q 3WW9AwgAmHSvbN1bUJc+XTunj6HOIHwsCgZQQAHqz+LPgcqBgLPGIAcqmaZjbosS 7mCn97i1SbGMGm9CYX7tUhEgyeUveVrUR1h9tYill1DHzkknUMAuRcHWXvfsIYEM ZiI1d+eDUk9SPY5UWKq8fgfNrPuDl95n9W0/7oQu5Ko7QSyA3tpoNty89ChqMOqD Yl/gi+Owg0qg+uPXuaYcLPud/ZPy+yK+ew9GDb30S8Joc/eOZB9BXbT/PEouUaaV S4uce7QTphkbCny+2v0VuBMUHC3M6AweqiQNQAvm8TekpJTLkcWd+0A7NAz67tPy AGsnEfALPRqZIdVgT3Qb/c+Nvi4J7g== =vbmD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Jan 16 16:25:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FEE7120099 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 16:25:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=viagenie-ca.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17w6JSsbJd9q for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 16:25:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F078120059 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 16:25:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id w47so20494305qtk.4 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 16:25:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=viagenie-ca.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version; bh=Xwbo1xRcZbhXCBkK7bTAex8pb2zCs3nPuGlGbV5+iG8=; b=ZZoCQ1SfGk+3AiUobPLGPERGzztjy/Bk7FbrldayM1kcprqX+5gXsRC83nfy+X+o/g Q5y/WGE7rUlvQu0f+UEbRYykSqE/bgJ6do0ma4L8O1FCQuAu3fjSyTldcavn8lwi/09M bbn4HALJix1DeyDMtR0biCKMaOyAApiIBESgXNzggSxvBnOjaE/V8Eudl9Lf/J9zxR76 cXrkn6MrJPXaDcd0LqaovzE0KbLhp4oIsfeMqcRv91Fuckj8VVgP47IIr8g1VO/EzeCE ZHmMzvBraFulDj+tHSHgNzhDnUO1QA+gPw+5m+rK8QMJOTUa/0Ner6etGQpapUotrLud bWNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version; bh=Xwbo1xRcZbhXCBkK7bTAex8pb2zCs3nPuGlGbV5+iG8=; b=LNYWYZMjTbyW07XBKvhhNmsEXzzwAUp92PJbJhY3d2LOoUQaUp92sPqG7PAhYGeJtd AKnMBfu438hzCouRusbhlUWueD91D6s8/irWK8BX97PO6Yb6WL6C1z99HUGDPHbVwg9Q wCTxj3/brJo9BbvvCNNkvNH2pY49TtUY5bfaklpD7gWoexmbyBrEQPZVYhnwjfNsqzxU 0XBXl2u/6Po/APW+aKFAOWzc89h2Sx2AoS5UW9JK7hp1dqHJngrkbiieWoLHvtudTHkr AE8LLkEbC8pPZj6wveXEMnIKAXWS1Udm94P1JFDAULZ5t2QDoXTj65XJDPGvnjNwdOYQ s11A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWlRiCN+5YKJ02fzDkoseUYoF3Ia5Xn7D+FJ5m5LlSTCltCCcmx 9zI28TtWk/ZC5Yq5rr9Hv/rgbub496c6uQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwgsAn87t/J3Y998pZKVkxvhcitsMA0KPllf7To5tFuj7d8sOcAEUfN6vNgfuG7TDaZqcKH+w== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:1e05:: with SMTP id n5mr5109752qtl.227.1579220737262; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 16:25:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (modemcable016.82-162-184.mc.videotron.ca. [184.162.82.16]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x6sm10844148qkh.20.2020.01.16.16.25.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Jan 2020 16:25:36 -0800 (PST) From: "Marc Blanchet" To: "Michael Richardson" Cc: behave@ietf.org Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:25:32 -0500 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5671) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <11345.1579216274@localhost> References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <29758.1578671195@localhost> <11345.1579216274@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] errata 4933: RFC 5766 prevent spoofed refresh requests when using short-term credentials X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 00:25:40 -0000 as there is a turn-related working group (tram) alive, I suggest you also post to the tram ml. Marc. On 16 Jan 2020, at 18:11, Michael Richardson wrote: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=4933 > > 4933> Section 17.3.3 says: > > 4933> An attacker might attempt to disrupt service to other users > of the > 4933> TURN server by sending Refresh requests or CreatePermission > requests > 4933> that (through source address spoofing) appear to be coming > from > 4933> another user of the TURN server. TURN prevents this by > requiring > 4933> that the credentials used in CreatePermission, Refresh, and > 4933> ChannelBind messages match those used to create the initial > 4933> allocation. Thus, the fake requests from the attacker will > be > 4933> rejected. > 4933> Notes: > > 4933> When using short-term, credentials expire after a specific > amount of time > 4933> (such as 5 > 4933> minutes) and clients get new credentials. The restriction > imposed at section > 4933> 17.3.3 > 4933> prevents from refreshing allocation or permission using the > new credentials. > > 4933> This RFC approves RFC 5389. So one can use short-term > credentials. But > 4933> short-term credentials are useless if it can not be used to > refresh > 4933> allocation or permission. > > 4933> The goal of 17.3.3 can be achieved by sending 438 with the > new nonce. > > a) I think we should accept this as verified. > b) It seems that sending with the new nonce will work. This requires > some > text changes, and we can now perhaps use the errata patcher with > XML. > I've asked for the XML (if there is any), and I'll suggest some > changes to > the text. > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > _______________________________________________ > Behave mailing list > Behave@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave From nobody Thu Jan 16 17:26:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F14E120059; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 17:26:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RsK2lfpOTHj3; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 17:26:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FFE512004A; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 17:26:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5EF33897D; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 20:26:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C417E7F; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 20:26:52 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson to: tram@ietf.org, behave@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <11345.1579216274@localhost> References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <29758.1578671195@localhost> <11345.1579216274@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] errata 4933: RFC 5766 prevent spoofed refresh requests when using short-term credentials X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 01:26:56 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=4933 4933> Section 17.3.3 says: 4933> An attacker might attempt to disrupt service to other users of the 4933> TURN server by sending Refresh requests or CreatePermission requests 4933> that (through source address spoofing) appear to be coming from 4933> another user of the TURN server. TURN prevents this by requiring 4933> that the credentials used in CreatePermission, Refresh, and 4933> ChannelBind messages match those used to create the initial 4933> allocation. Thus, the fake requests from the attacker will be 4933> rejected. 4933> Notes: 4933> When using short-term, credentials expire after a specific amount of time 4933> (such as 5 4933> minutes) and clients get new credentials. The restriction imposed at section 4933> 17.3.3 4933> prevents from refreshing allocation or permission using the new credentials. 4933> This RFC approves RFC 5389. So one can use short-term credentials. But 4933> short-term credentials are useless if it can not be used to refresh 4933> allocation or permission. 4933> The goal of 17.3.3 can be achieved by sending 438 with the new nonce. a) I think we should accept this as verified. b) It seems that sending with the new nonce will work. This requires some text changes, and we can now perhaps use the errata patcher with XML. I've asked for the XML (if there is any), and I'll suggest some changes to the text. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl4hDVwACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXqjAf+IuyqsvvUxg0X+tv4aJ114EuoAJr3ZJXgix7HCoxZBB0xm2wIROLSsYg4 Y8ih6vFerBUYwYVNhUgVSI3ecf7qUe9lLwzsOv2jsx07H4SL9PM5F5gdtoKjSMTC RoNcHkvQuzuBzLHkFOmsGRGKkQ80T9gJUJLSnz/740NMUu83XXvMFcawv/2yzgP+ 5Ck6aGl46LP+xRp5xsHHSCRL6VBa8ZUYibIgX2rTjgY/BjX60vIft4nkSxSD9h5G esUwC4uJwCggeaRdalg9Ta3aq+lkpRLha8snHSk5jFzumhFbIepwSyVfG0qaa14n yDGa/W1VXPKdoV8jjBSX9Df83p2oTQ== =6h7P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Jan 17 08:37:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C6BB120018 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 08:37:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fOTcNskFIQ73 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 08:37:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81697120043 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 08:37:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 045153897D for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 11:37:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 557E5CB5 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 11:37:39 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: "behave\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <29758.1578671195@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Closing the mailing list X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 16:37:45 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Magnus Westerlund wrote: > When it comes to errata there are some benefit in the mailing list. There are > actually 7 Errata that are not processed. > RFC5766 (4933) 17.3.3 Technical behave (tsv) shakeeb TEXT 2017-02-15 > RFC5769 (4776) 2 Technical behave (tsv) software should include manufacturer and version number TEXT 2016-08-12 > RFC6052 (5415) 2.2 Technical behave (tsv) Dale R. Worley TEXT 2018-07-01 > RFC6062 (3467) 5.2. Technical behave (tsv) Nazmus Shakeeb TEXT 2013-01-22 > RFC6145 (4090) 6 Technical behave (tsv) Fernando Gont TEXT 2014-08-20 > RFC6146 (4756) 3.5.3 Technical behave (tsv) Alberto Leiva Popper TEXT 2016-08-02 > RFC7050 (5152) IANA Conside Technical behave (tsv) Mark Andrews TEXT 2017-10-11 > If I get recommendation for how to handle them I will sanity check the > recommendation and then register it in the system. Wow, that's a few. I'll started on the first. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl4h4tIACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXsygf+PFCDttJfxkxqx2dC7lbgEBRQmgT5NKttQEegEfTHZ+Bzpi3D+2XWC9Zc Z2mgXAMSY6iHgRPf7XJ3gzvWFEi59IEtYYkeVvDszlx0z4ojA/I1bxVoqHnVLrP7 Fo4k/MWwvxL04yLUPrW4EMDsDezo3cnLJuOMhnz//1as9JyfZ8Qb3hjqO5d45tBS UVIgFtm6umX81vCAgZrEvjIrOvNeMsEmxKQcAGFhFwOWhEClVJecSRWm125oYBhX ufH6TMMZ0hCELrjTShkwabb3kpmSTe6RTsNr7G6wRpRDykRC1ynX71T0eIDYMdDH tA0qayo+PeqF05lGrF6NMrKTeMlFlA== =MnTn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Jan 17 10:01:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17598120043 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:01:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nx9ISMcfLMzy for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:01:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vs1-xe43.google.com (mail-vs1-xe43.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25FC4120074 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:01:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe43.google.com with SMTP id g15so15387512vsf.1 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:01:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AH4PcVDJXEBO80p7U9/qJUawaF/cZHM8sH8rjVksWys=; b=oj6RkPhmQX8WquxSkyGLbN2UG1CeI78ZhVUTFD168Rp2ijhBTubg2Aud/6bLwhi8ep muA6thPc6Bmn+uDrmF9XLXWEEPvmJTyJWsbJ0dgHf5eKTGo64DRo8Alq395Gk6eBvcCB 8MbLb8sV5IYE4XTK6E27LdSvU+0ArtIvtU41izP0jhyYUnWO4LyPlDbjqFNvUbVtwdvU cBC8ty2EMEJJbtQ7Tg5O9vXIvXb5INqK0RDZSOfzjMsiWlBrSAYbO2sGIt/H+JWevU84 GNyQWSDzqjWPydZYY+Q13q25TyNKezLc6DTR+HjaoZBF+zhIUFS3+LMDTIzB7qs4xb+3 g1Yw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AH4PcVDJXEBO80p7U9/qJUawaF/cZHM8sH8rjVksWys=; b=Ro3f6z4q2rQHVHoCaBTs/yzNyseWKeY140fx0M0AtT4Fu7R4+aKSkTbJVdabvBUymW g4MS7X/mNGwjC2fX4xyXR2aZYpERd+byEJQC9ubE3Il/hXAEwLjbbTJliAWqJddlC4zh di03YNUlftMS/zZ6bFHSBMfUY72Zw1xtL9y88cyleYTCZCKVDF+ykmKgYjUYvTsy4lZp hkrF7dIcUPe5Av6CrOfD5+tfbpkf8DrmWLA35oCDWmxDNhJL/XOAqXDi9Xaza6hPZrhg Ocnll+b8jv39OKTUcNiIMAUjW698BaepYeutbgFa30Q5D3KhdFJiQjuV65hpT6+yHyYa EHEw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWjPR/jQjwADKXzvGI23bwmsLZ0iwJsn7vnoCniX0rOiCQOcAFl JZrHsoWV46e0TS9UXmX75gH5emGfjpAR+IJB5HKxUmND X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxiHzRRsr8t+8Je591l1H1vZI+En5qudE8vL9szAn4ICyG0A3Fbnl81nbwAalCSlTyIW32+HFxlLNINEttnarI= X-Received: by 2002:a67:8716:: with SMTP id j22mr5784667vsd.177.1579284060750; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:01:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200110123841.GD8801@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <29758.1578671195@localhost> <11345.1579216274@localhost> <12509.1579224412@localhost> In-Reply-To: <12509.1579224412@localhost> From: Justin Uberti Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:00:48 -0800 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: tram@ietf.org, behave Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000711d28059c59b9ea" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] errata 4933: RFC 5766 prevent spoofed refresh requests when using short-term credentials X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 18:01:07 -0000 --000000000000711d28059c59b9ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Both a/b seem sensible to me. On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:27 PM Michael Richardson wrote: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=4933 > > 4933> Section 17.3.3 says: > > 4933> An attacker might attempt to disrupt service to other users of > the > 4933> TURN server by sending Refresh requests or CreatePermission > requests > 4933> that (through source address spoofing) appear to be coming from > 4933> another user of the TURN server. TURN prevents this by requiring > 4933> that the credentials used in CreatePermission, Refresh, and > 4933> ChannelBind messages match those used to create the initial > 4933> allocation. Thus, the fake requests from the attacker will be > 4933> rejected. > 4933> Notes: > > 4933> When using short-term, credentials expire after a specific > amount of time > 4933> (such as 5 > 4933> minutes) and clients get new credentials. The restriction > imposed at section > 4933> 17.3.3 > 4933> prevents from refreshing allocation or permission using the new > credentials. > > 4933> This RFC approves RFC 5389. So one can use short-term > credentials. But > 4933> short-term credentials are useless if it can not be used to > refresh > 4933> allocation or permission. > > 4933> The goal of 17.3.3 can be achieved by sending 438 with the new > nonce. > > a) I think we should accept this as verified. > b) It seems that sending with the new nonce will work. This requires some > text changes, and we can now perhaps use the errata patcher with XML. > I've asked for the XML (if there is any), and I'll suggest some changes > to > the text. > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > > > > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Behave mailing list > Behave@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave > --000000000000711d28059c59b9ea Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Both a/b seem sensible to me.

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:27 = PM Michael Richardson <mcr+ie= tf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?= eid=3D4933

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> Section 17.3.3 says:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> An attacker might attempt to disrupt service to othe= r users of the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> TURN server by sending Refresh requests or CreatePer= mission requests
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> that (through source address spoofing) appear to be = coming from
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> another user of the TURN server.=C2=A0 TURN prevents= this by requiring
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> that the credentials used in CreatePermission, Refre= sh, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> ChannelBind messages match those used to create the = initial
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> allocation.=C2=A0 Thus, the fake requests from the a= ttacker will be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> rejected.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> Notes:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> When using short-term, credentials expire after a sp= ecific amount of time
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> (such as 5
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> minutes) and clients get new credentials. The restri= ction imposed at section
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> 17.3.3
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> prevents from refreshing allocation or permission us= ing the new credentials.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> This RFC approves RFC 5389. So one can use short-ter= m credentials. But
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> short-term credentials are useless if it can not be = used to refresh
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> allocation or permission.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4933> The goal of 17.3.3 can be achieved by sending 438 wi= th the new nonce.

a) I think we should accept this as verified.
b) It seems that sending with the new nonce will work.=C2=A0 This requires = some
=C2=A0 =C2=A0text changes, and we can now perhaps use the errata patcher wi= th XML.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0I've asked for the XML (if there is any), and I'll sug= gest some changes to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the text.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
=C2=A0-=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-




--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
=C2=A0-=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-



_______________________________________________
Behave mailing list
Behave@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave
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micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-+3O9BxMnmXJaS5FWNAoS" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b65cbbc5-036f-48a6-64cc-08d7a0ea81e4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Jan 2020 16:28:55.7655 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 84ZgeyCIn70FlHm/wKROQVNNSh0PAdAV9UbzDwXcIucKFUU4+gbcFq5egTWWddeJ/uCzJQncRQiD1I5WIGdnu4BXdxGojIZOcQOarjAG/C4= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB5878 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] errata 4933: RFC 5766 prevent spoofed refresh requests when using short-term credentials X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 16:29:01 -0000 --=-+3O9BxMnmXJaS5FWNAoS Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I think the primary question is if this errata points to an issue that rema= ins within the updated TURN specification:=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-turnbis/ So the question to the TRAM WG people.=20 Section 21.3.3. (the equivalent to 17.3.3) has the same text. However, I th= ink the underlying question is if the existing mechanism and especially for sta= le nonce prevents an insider attacker that otherwise have the user name and password for the user can take over an allocation when the nonce expires?= =20 However, I have the suspistion that the reporter has made an erronous assum= ption as short-term security is not allowed with TURN. Section 4 of RFC 5766 do requires long-term or other equal strong mechanism. Thus, another aspect is= if the nonce actually will expire? Or can a client actually loose their alloca= tions when the nonce expires and attacker manages to make the request first?=20 Cheers Magnus Westerlund On Fri, 2020-01-17 at 10:00 -0800, Justin Uberti wrote: > Both a/b seem sensible to me. >=20 > On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:27 PM Michael Richardson > wrote: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=3D4933 > >=20 > > 4933> Section 17.3.3 says: > >=20 > > 4933> An attacker might attempt to disrupt service to other users o= f the > > 4933> TURN server by sending Refresh requests or CreatePermission > > requests > > 4933> that (through source address spoofing) appear to be coming fr= om > > 4933> another user of the TURN server. TURN prevents this by requi= ring > > 4933> that the credentials used in CreatePermission, Refresh, and > > 4933> ChannelBind messages match those used to create the initial > > 4933> allocation. Thus, the fake requests from the attacker will b= e > > 4933> rejected. > > 4933> Notes: > >=20 > > 4933> When using short-term, credentials expire after a specific am= ount > > of time > > 4933> (such as 5 > > 4933> minutes) and clients get new credentials. The restriction imp= osed > > at section > > 4933> 17.3.3 > > 4933> prevents from refreshing allocation or permission using the n= ew > > credentials. > >=20 > > 4933> This RFC approves RFC 5389. So one can use short-term credent= ials. > > But > > 4933> short-term credentials are useless if it can not be used to > > refresh > > 4933> allocation or permission. > >=20 > > 4933> The goal of 17.3.3 can be achieved by sending 438 with the ne= w > > nonce. > >=20 > > a) I think we should accept this as verified. > > b) It seems that sending with the new nonce will work. This requires s= ome > > text changes, and we can now perhaps use the errata patcher with XML= . > > I've asked for the XML (if there is any), and I'll suggest some chan= ges > > to > > the text. > >=20 > > -- > > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -- > > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > Behave mailing list > > Behave@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Behave mailing list > Behave@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave --=20 Cheers Magnus Westerlund=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Networks, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 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[BEHAVE] errata 4933: RFC 5766 prevent spoofed refresh requests when using short-term credentials X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2020 12:56:35 -0000 VGhlIHNob3J0LXRlcm0gY3JlZGVudGlhbCBtZWNoYW5pc20gZm9yIFRVUk4gaXMgZGlzY3Vzc2Vk IGluIGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9yZmM3NjM1LCBpdCBhZGRyZXNzZXMgYm90 aCB0aGUgaXNzdWVzIHJhaXNlZCBieSB0aGUgcmVwb3J0ZXINCg0KYSkgU2VjdGlvbiA5IHNheXMs ICBJZiB0aGUgYWNjZXNzIHRva2VuIGV4cGlyZXMsIHRoZW4gdGhlIGNsaWVudCBNVVNUIG9idGFp biBhIG5ldyB0b2tlbiBmcm9tIHRoZSBhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHNlcnZlciBhbmQgdXNlIGl0IGZv ciBuZXcNCiAgICBhbGxvY2F0aW9ucy4gIFRoZSBjbGllbnQgTVVTVCB1c2UgdGhlIG5ldyB0b2tl biB0byByZWZyZXNoIGV4aXN0aW5nIGFsbG9jYXRpb25zLiAgVGhpcyB3YXksIHRoZSBjbGllbnQg aGFzIHRvIG1haW50YWluIG9ubHkNCiAgICBvbmUgdG9rZW4gcGVyIFRVUk4gc2VydmVyLg0KYikg 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