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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com>, "Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)" <pbrisset@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm
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Cc: "Ali Sajassi \(sajassi\)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm
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Weiguo,

I have been marginally paying attention to this email thread and I thought =
I should update the points we have established.  In addition to the points =
listed in my email, below, I think we have established that;

1)  Your proposal is even more broken than I I previously indicated because=
 you have no way to identify to which EVI your DF election handshake applie=
s

2)  Your DF election handshake only applies to single-active MHN, if it app=
lies at all.

3)  Your DF election handshake creates a window in which no PE is the DF wh=
ich leads to the black-holing of traffic.

4)  Because the EVPN routes are not time-stamped, you entire discussion of =
NTP and PTP is completely irrelevant.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: John E Drake
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:00 PM
To: 'Haoweiguo'; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm

To recap,

We have established that your proposal is untenable because of its control =
plane load.

We have established that your proposal is based upon a flawed understanding=
 of the DF election in RFC 7432.

What you are now arguing is that your draft prevents two or more PEs from b=
eing DF simultaneously.  This is clearly nonsense.

Furthermore, we have established that having two or more DFs for what even =
you admit is a brief transient leads to duplicate traffic, which is accepta=
ble, but not loops, your assertion to the contrary.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: Haoweiguo [mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 5:37 PM
To: John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


John,

As your understanding of the EVPN draft, the DF election mechanism has more=
 serious side effect, it will have short time traffic loop,i.e., dual DF PE=
s will exist for a short time. I think dual DF PEs is absolutely not tolera=
ted, because native ethernet header has no TTL, up to several hundred ms tr=
affic loop normally not tolerated in commertial networks.



As your understanding, the PEs should do as following:

1. Accurate timer sync. NTP accuracy is bad, 1588v2 is good but have rarely=
 deployment.

Assuming PE1,PE2 and PE3 have consistent timer clock, when PE3 joins ESI an=
d trigger DF re-election. When reception timer expires:

PE1 upgrades to DF PE.

After reception timer+ ES route transmission timer:

PE2 downloads to non-DF PE.

So in timer clock sync case, dual DF PEs will exist at least transmission t=
imer.



If NTP is used for timer sync, because it has bad accuracy, dual DF PEs wil=
l exist more longer timer.



So as your understanding for DF election, the drawback is more clear.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 4:41
To: Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
Weiguo,

We have already established that your proposal is untenable because of its =
control plane load.

What we are now discussing is that your proposal is based upon a misunderst=
anding of the algorithm in RFC 7432.  You are assuming that PE1 will advert=
ise an ES route and then wait for the configured interval before performing=
 the DF election while PE2 and PE3 will perform the DF election as soon as =
they receive the ES route from PE1.  This is not what RFC 7432 says.

Rather, what is says is that the advertisement of the ES route by PE1 and i=
ts receipt by PE2 and PE3 causes all three PEs to start the configured inte=
rval timer  - "3. When the timer expires, each PE builds an ordered list of=
 the IP addresses of all the PE nodes connected to the Ethernet segment (in=
cluding itself), in increasing numeric value."

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: Haoweiguo [mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 3:26 PM
To: John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Pls read my detail replies to Satya. If you still can't catch it, pls read =
my draft and EVPN base protocol,  thanks

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 1:28
To: Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
I think Patrice is correct.  Your proposal doesn't solve the problem and it=
 does so at huge cost.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 26, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Patrice Brissette (pbrisset) <pbrisset@cisco.=
com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>> wrote:
Weiguo,

I'm not sure I'm following here.
Don't you have the same issue with your handshaking mechanism?
If you don't know your peer, how can you handshake?


Regards,

Patrice
   [Image removed by sender.]


Patrice Brissette
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING

pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>
Phone: +1 613 254 3336


Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco Canada CIE
Canada
Cisco.com<http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/>



[Image removed by sender.]Think before you print.


This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole us=
e of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by=
 others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or a=
uthorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply=
 email and delete all copies of this message.

Please click here<http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/i=
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From: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com<mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com>>
Date: Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 10:24 AM
To: Patrice Brissette <pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>>, John=
 E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>, Ali Sajassi <saja=
ssi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, "bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.o=
rg>" <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Hi Patrice,

Up to reception timer traffic disruption in transient phase is one of the i=
ssues.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: Patrice Brissette (pbrisset) [pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisc=
o.com>]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 20:54
To: Haoweiguo; John E Drake; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:be=
ss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
Weiguo,

You mention "But if your draft have not solved all issues",
Can you explain what Satya's draft is not solving?


Regards,

Patrice
   [Image removed by sender.]


Patrice Brissette
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING

pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>
Phone: +1 613 254 3336


Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco Canada CIE
Canada
Cisco.com<http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/>



[Image removed by sender.]Think before you print.


This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole us=
e of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by=
 others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or a=
uthorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply=
 email and delete all copies of this message.

Please click here<http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/i=
ndex.html> for Company Registration Information.




From: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com<mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com>>
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 10:38 PM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>, Ali Sajas=
si <sajassi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, "bess@ietf.org<mailto:bes=
s@ietf.org>" <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Hi John,

 Firstly i think EVPN community should reach consensus on the issues of cur=
rent DF election mechanism. All these issues should be resolved in a single=
 new DF election draft,rather than in multiple separate drafts. If your dra=
ft can solve all these issues and stable, i have no question for its progre=
ssing. But if your draft have not solved all issues, i think it had better =
combine with other drafts to provide a comprehensive solution. I think the =
issues listed in draft-rabadan-bess-evpn-ac-df-01 and draft-hao-bess-evpn-d=
f-handshaking-00 is valid, it should be resolved. So i think although your =
new Hash algorithm for DF election is good, it only includes partial enhanc=
ements, maybe it still needs some time for consensus.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:16
To: Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
Weiguo,

Your proposal introduces a control plane processing load that is O(#EVIs * =
PEs) per DF election and given that there can be 4K EVIs per ES, this looks=
 like a *substantial* load.  Furthermore,
you can't  use the ES route to co-ordinate DF election because you would ne=
ed to carry your new extended community for each EVI and they would not all=
 fit.  You also can't use the Per EVI Ethernet AD route because that is pro=
cessed by all PEs in the EVI.

I think that from a practical perspective the new DF election proposed in S=
atya's draft is sufficiently stable that it renders your draft moot, even i=
f it could be made to work.
Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:34 PM
To: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Hi Ali,

Thanks for your information. I scanned through this draft, it really introd=
uces inter-chassis message for DF election handshaking, the requirements in=
 this draft is to eliminate transiet Loop and traffic duplication. Current =
EVPN DF election mechanism already eliminated loop and traffic duplication =
by configuring long reception timer on each multi-homed PE, but up to recep=
tion timer traffic disruption issue still exist. EVPN for DCI is an importa=
nt use case for EVPN, up to reception timer traffic disruption can't be tol=
erated for service providers, it should be improved.

Also for accuracy, i think handshaking state machine on each multi-homed PE=
 is also needed. From solution perspective, in my draft, no inter-chassis m=
essage is introduced, only one new extended community is introduced, i thin=
k the process is comparatively simple than your following draft.



Current EVPN DF election has some drawbacks, so there are three new drafts =
about DF election emerged. I think BESS WG can consider these three drafts =
in global view,  a single,comprehensive new DF election draft is hoped.



thanks.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: BESS [bess-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org>] on behalf =
of Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [sajassi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 0:21
To: bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorith=
m

FYI- First published July 4, 2011

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-segment-route/


-Ali

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Weiguo,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I have been marginally paying attenti=
on to this email thread and I thought I should update the points we have es=
tablished.&nbsp; In addition to the points listed in
 my email, below, I think we have established that;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1)&nbsp; Your proposal is even more b=
roken than I I previously indicated because you have no way to identify to =
which EVI your DF election handshake applies<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">2)&nbsp; Your DF election handshake o=
nly applies to single-active MHN, if it applies at all.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">3)&nbsp; Your DF election handshake c=
reates a window in which no PE is the DF which leads to the black-holing of=
 traffic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">4)&nbsp; Because the EVPN routes are =
not time-stamped, you entire discussion of NTP and PTP is completely irrele=
vant.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> John E Drake
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Haoweiguo'; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">To recap,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We have established that your proposa=
l is untenable because of its control plane load.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We have established that your proposa=
l is based upon a flawed understanding of the DF election in RFC 7432.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">What you are now arguing is that your=
 draft prevents two or more PEs from being DF simultaneously.&nbsp; This is=
 clearly nonsense.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Furthermore, we have established that=
 having two or more DFs for what even you admit is a brief transient leads =
to duplicate traffic, which is acceptable, but
 not loops, your assertion to the contrary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Haoweiguo [<a href=3D"mailto:h=
aoweiguo@huawei.com">mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 5:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">J=
ohn,</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,s=
ans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">A=
s your understanding of the EVPN draft, the DF election mechanism has more =
serious side effect, it will have short time traffic loop,i.e., dual DF PEs=
 will exist for a short time. I think dual DF
 PEs is absolutely not tolerated, because native ethernet header has no TTL=
, up to several hundred ms traffic loop normally not tolerated in commertia=
l networks.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">A=
s your understanding, the PEs should do as following:</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">1=
. Accurate timer sync. NTP accuracy is bad, 1588v2 is good but have rarely =
deployment.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">A=
ssuming PE1,PE2 and PE3 have consistent timer clock, when PE3 joins ESI and=
 trigger DF re-election. When reception timer expires:</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">P=
E1 upgrades to DF PE.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">A=
fter reception timer&#43; ES route transmission timer:</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">P=
E2 downloads to non-DF PE.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">S=
o in timer clock sync case, dual DF PEs will exist at least transmission ti=
mer.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,s=
ans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">I=
f NTP is used for timer sync, because it has bad accuracy, dual DF PEs will=
 exist more longer timer.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">S=
o as your understanding for DF election, the drawback is more clear.</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">T=
hanks,</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">w=
eiguo</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF234411">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 27, 2015 4:41<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Weiguo,</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We have already established that your=
 proposal is untenable because of its control plane load.
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">What we are now discussing is that yo=
ur proposal is based upon a misunderstanding of the algorithm in RFC 7432.&=
nbsp; You are assuming that PE1 will advertise an ES
 route and then wait for the configured interval before performing the DF e=
lection while PE2 and PE3 will perform the DF election as soon as they rece=
ive the ES route from PE1.&nbsp; This is not what RFC 7432 says.</span><spa=
n style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Rather, what is says is that the adve=
rtisement of the ES route by PE1 and its receipt by PE2 and PE3 causes all =
three PEs to start the configured interval timer&nbsp;
 - &#8220;3. When the timer expires, each PE builds an ordered list of the =
IP addresses of all the PE nodes connected to the Ethernet segment (includi=
ng itself), in increasing numeric value.&#8221;</span><span style=3D"color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John</span><span style=3D"color:black=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"> Haowei=
guo [<a href=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com">mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com</a=
>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 3:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">P=
ls read my detail replies to Satya. If you still can't catch it, pls read m=
y draft and EVPN base protocol, &nbsp;thanks</span><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">w=
eiguo</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF478649">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 27, 2015 1:28<br>
<b>To:</b> Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.or=
g">bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">I think Patrice is corre=
ct. &nbsp;Your proposal doesn't solve the problem and it does so at huge co=
st.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"color:=
black"><br>
On Mar 26, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Patrice Brissette (pbrisset) &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:pbrisset@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">pbrisset@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Weiguo,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">I&#8217;m not sure I&#82=
17;m following here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Don&#8217;t you have the=
 same issue with your handshaking mechanism?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">If you don&#8217;t know =
your peer, how can you handshake?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Regards,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"color:=
black">Patrice<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"543" style=3D"width:407.25pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"543" style=3D"width:407.25pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan=3D"3" style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp;<span style=3D"border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:0in"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"110" height=3D"73" id=3D"_x00=
00_i1027" src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01D06DF1.76628B60" alt=3D"Image removed b=
y sender."></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td nowrap=3D"" valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in .25in">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#666666">Patrice Brissette</span></strong><span style=3D"font=
-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#666666"><br>
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"colo=
r:#666666;text-decoration:none">pbrisset@cisco.com</span></a><br>
Phone: <strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">&#4=
3;1 613 254 3336</span></strong></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"50%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:50.0%;padding:11.25pt 0in 7=
.5pt 15.0pt">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#666666">Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco Canada=
 CIE</span></strong><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&=
quot;,sans-serif;color:#666666"><br>
Canada<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"color:#666666;text-decoration:none">Cisco.com</span></a></span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan=3D"3" style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"400" style=3D"width:300.0pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:3.75pt 15.0pt 0in .25in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,sans-serif;color:#009900;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in=
"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"100" height=3D"100" id=3D"_x0000_i1028" src=3D=
"cid:image002.jpg@01D06DF1.76628B60" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:#009900">Think
 before you print.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:5.25pt 15.0pt 4.5pt .25in">
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#999999">This email may contain confidential and privileged material =
for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution o=
r disclosure by others is strictly prohibited.
 If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the re=
cipient), please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies of=
 this message.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#999999">Please
<a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.ht=
ml" target=3D"_blank" title=3D"Legal Information">
<span style=3D"color:#0E58A0">click here</span></a> for Company Registratio=
n Information.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><br clear=3D"all">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:black">Haoweiguo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">haoweiguo@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 10:24 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Patrice Brissette &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">pbrisset@cisco.com</a>&gt;, John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;, Ali Saj=
assi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sajassi@cis=
co.com</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>=
&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin=
-bottom:5.0pt" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">H=
i Patrice,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">U=
p to reception timer traffic disruption in transient phase is one of the is=
sues.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">T=
hanks,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">w=
eiguo</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF422254">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Patrice Brissette (pbrisset) [<a href=3D"mailto:pbri=
sset@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">pbrisset@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 20:54<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; John E Drake; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailt=
o:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Weiguo,</span><span style=3D"color:blac=
k"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">You mention &quot;</span><span style=3D"color:black">But=
 if your draft have not solved all issues&#8221;,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Can you explain what Sat=
ya&#8217;s draft is not solving?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Regards,</span><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Patrice<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"543" style=3D"width:407.25pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"543" style=3D"width:407.25pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan=3D"3" style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp;<span style=3D"border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:0in"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"110" height=3D"73" id=3D"_x00=
00_i1030" src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01D06DF1.76628B60" alt=3D"Image removed b=
y sender."></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td nowrap=3D"" valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in .25in">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#666666">Patrice Brissette</span></strong><span style=3D"font=
-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#666666"><br>
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"colo=
r:#666666;text-decoration:none">pbrisset@cisco.com</span></a><br>
Phone: <strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">&#4=
3;1 613 254 3336</span></strong></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"50%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:50.0%;padding:11.25pt 0in 7=
.5pt 15.0pt">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#666666">Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco Canada=
 CIE</span></strong><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&=
quot;,sans-serif;color:#666666"><br>
Canada<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"color:#666666;text-decoration:none">Cisco.com</span></a></span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan=3D"3" style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"400" style=3D"width:300.0pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:3.75pt 15.0pt 0in .25in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,sans-serif;color:#009900;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in=
"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"100" height=3D"100" id=3D"_x0000_i1031" src=3D=
"cid:image002.jpg@01D06DF1.76628B60" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:#009900">Think
 before you print.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:5.25pt 15.0pt 4.5pt .25in">
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#999999">This email may contain confidential and privileged material =
for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution o=
r disclosure by others is strictly prohibited.
 If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the re=
cipient), please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies of=
 this message.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#999999">Please
<a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.ht=
ml" target=3D"_blank" title=3D"Legal Information">
<span style=3D"color:#0E58A0">click here</span></a> for Company Registratio=
n Information.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><br clear=3D"all">
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:black">Haoweiguo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">haoweiguo@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 10:38 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;, Ali Sajassi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:saja=
ssi@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sajassi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=
=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin=
-bottom:5.0pt" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">H=
i John,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&=
nbsp;Firstly i think EVPN community should reach consensus on the issues of=
 current DF election mechanism. All these issues should be resolved in a si=
ngle new DF election draft,rather than in multiple
 separate drafts. If your draft can solve all these issues and stable, i ha=
ve no question for its progressing. But if your draft have not solved all i=
ssues, i think it had better combine with other drafts to provide a compreh=
ensive solution. I think the issues
 listed in draft-rabadan-bess-evpn-ac-df-01 and draft-hao-bess-evpn-df-hand=
shaking-00 is valid, it should be resolved. So i think although your new Ha=
sh algorithm for DF election is good, it only includes partial enhancements=
, maybe it still needs some time
 for consensus.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">T=
hanks,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">w=
eiguo</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF271558">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> John E Drake [<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" =
target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:16<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Weiguo,</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Your proposal introduces a control pl=
ane processing load that is O(#EVIs * PEs) per DF election and given that t=
here can be 4K EVIs per ES, this looks like a
 *<b>substantial</b>* load.&nbsp; Furthermore,</span><span style=3D"color:b=
lack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">you can&#8217;t &nbsp;use the ES rout=
e to co-ordinate DF election because you would need to carry your new exten=
ded community for each EVI and they would not all fit.&nbsp; You
 also can&#8217;t use the Per EVI Ethernet AD route because that is process=
ed by all PEs in the EVI.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I think that from a practical perspec=
tive the new DF election proposed in Satya&#8217;s draft is sufficiently st=
able that it renders your draft moot, even if it could
 be made to work.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John</span><span style=3D"color:black=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"> BESS [=
<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:bess-boun=
ces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haoweiguo<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Hi=
 Ali,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Th=
anks for your information. I scanned through this draft, it really introduc=
es inter-chassis message for DF election handshaking, the requirements in t=
his draft is to eliminate transiet Loop and
 traffic duplication. Current EVPN DF election mechanism already eliminated=
 loop and traffic duplication by configuring long reception timer on each m=
ulti-homed PE, but up to reception timer traffic disruption issue still exi=
st. EVPN for DCI is an important
 use case for EVPN, up to reception timer traffic disruption can't be toler=
ated for service providers, it should be improved.</span><span style=3D"col=
or:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Al=
so for accuracy, i think handshaking state machine on each multi-homed PE i=
s also needed. From solution perspective, in my draft, no inter-chassis mes=
sage is introduced, only one new extended community
 is introduced, i think the process is comparatively simple than your follo=
wing draft.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Cu=
rrent EVPN DF election has some drawbacks, so there are three new drafts ab=
out DF election emerged. I think BESS WG can consider these three drafts in=
 global view,&nbsp; a single,comprehensive new DF
 election draft is hoped.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">th=
anks.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Th=
anks,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">we=
iguo</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF484031">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> BESS [<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">bess-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
 on behalf of Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">sajassi@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 0:21<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos a=
lgorithm</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">FYI- First published Jul=
y 4, 2011<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-segment-route" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-segment-route<=
/a>/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">-Ali<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From nobody Mon Apr  6 06:15:57 2015
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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-pe-ce-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled Services Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP as an MVPN PE-CE Protocol
        Authors         : Keyur Patel
                          Eric C. Rosen
                          Yakov Rekhter
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-pe-ce-00.txt
	Pages           : 12
	Date            : 2015-04-06

Abstract:
   When a Service Provider offers BGP/MPLS IP VPN service to its
   customers, RFCs 6513 and 6514 describe protocols and procedures that
   the Service Provider can use in order to carry the customer's IP
   multicast traffic from one customer site to others.  BGP can be used
   to carry customer multicast routing information from one Provider
   Edge (PE) router to another, but it is assumed that PIM is running on
   the interface between a Customer Edge (CE) router and a PE router.
   This document specifies protocols and procedures that, under certain
   conditions, allow customer multicast routing information to carried
   between PE and CE via BGP.  This can eliminate the need to run PIM on
   the PE-CE interfaces, potentially eliminating the need to run PIM on
   the PE routers at all.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-pe-ce/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-pe-ce-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Apr  6 19:03:41 2015
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From: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)" <pbrisset@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm
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Cc: "Ali Sajassi \(sajassi\)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm
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Hi John,

Your summary is good. Pls see my further reply inline with [weiguo].

Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 21:38
To: Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm

Weiguo,

I have been marginally paying attention to this email thread and I thought =
I should update the points we have established.  In addition to the points =
listed in my email, below, I think we have established that;

1)  Your proposal is even more broken than I I previously indicated because=
 you have no way to identify to which EVI your DF election handshake applie=
s
[weiguo]: Firstly we had better reach consensus on the problem(Loop and MAC=
 flip-flop in transient peirod for MHN) that we are trying to resolve, then=
 we can search for the suitable solution. The current proposed solution is =
to use A-D route for handshaking, the A-D route can identify EVI.
2)  Your DF election handshake only applies to single-active MHN, if it app=
lies at all.
[weiguo]: Yes, currently our DF election handshake can be used to avoid loo=
p and mac flip-flop for single-active MHN in transiet state. For MHD, if CE=
 receives BUM traffic from PE1, the CE won't send the traffic back to anoth=
er multi-homed PE2, so the loop won't be formed.
3)  Your DF election handshake creates a window in which no PE is the DF wh=
ich leads to the black-holing of traffic.
[weiguo]:The window is  BGP message transmission timer, all handshake mecha=
nism has this issue and i think it is more acceptable than loop and mac fli=
p-flop.
4)  Because the EVPN routes are not time-stamped, you entire discussion of =
NTP and PTP is completely irrelevant.
[weiguo]: OK.
Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: John E Drake
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:00 PM
To: 'Haoweiguo'; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm

To recap,

We have established that your proposal is untenable because of its control =
plane load.

We have established that your proposal is based upon a flawed understanding=
 of the DF election in RFC 7432.

What you are now arguing is that your draft prevents two or more PEs from b=
eing DF simultaneously.  This is clearly nonsense.

Furthermore, we have established that having two or more DFs for what even =
you admit is a brief transient leads to duplicate traffic, which is accepta=
ble, but not loops, your assertion to the contrary.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: Haoweiguo [mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 5:37 PM
To: John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


John,

As your understanding of the EVPN draft, the DF election mechanism has more=
 serious side effect, it will have short time traffic loop,i.e., dual DF PE=
s will exist for a short time. I think dual DF PEs is absolutely not tolera=
ted, because native ethernet header has no TTL, up to several hundred ms tr=
affic loop normally not tolerated in commertial networks.



As your understanding, the PEs should do as following:

1. Accurate timer sync. NTP accuracy is bad, 1588v2 is good but have rarely=
 deployment.

Assuming PE1,PE2 and PE3 have consistent timer clock, when PE3 joins ESI an=
d trigger DF re-election. When reception timer expires:

PE1 upgrades to DF PE.

After reception timer+ ES route transmission timer:

PE2 downloads to non-DF PE.

So in timer clock sync case, dual DF PEs will exist at least transmission t=
imer.



If NTP is used for timer sync, because it has bad accuracy, dual DF PEs wil=
l exist more longer timer.



So as your understanding for DF election, the drawback is more clear.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 4:41
To: Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
Weiguo,

We have already established that your proposal is untenable because of its =
control plane load.

What we are now discussing is that your proposal is based upon a misunderst=
anding of the algorithm in RFC 7432.  You are assuming that PE1 will advert=
ise an ES route and then wait for the configured interval before performing=
 the DF election while PE2 and PE3 will perform the DF election as soon as =
they receive the ES route from PE1.  This is not what RFC 7432 says.

Rather, what is says is that the advertisement of the ES route by PE1 and i=
ts receipt by PE2 and PE3 causes all three PEs to start the configured inte=
rval timer  - =933. When the timer expires, each PE builds an ordered list =
of the IP addresses of all the PE nodes connected to the Ethernet segment (=
including itself), in increasing numeric value.=94

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: Haoweiguo [mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 3:26 PM
To: John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Pls read my detail replies to Satya. If you still can't catch it, pls read =
my draft and EVPN base protocol,  thanks

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 1:28
To: Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
I think Patrice is correct.  Your proposal doesn't solve the problem and it=
 does so at huge cost.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 26, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Patrice Brissette (pbrisset) <pbrisset@cisco.=
com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>> wrote:
Weiguo,

I=92m not sure I=92m following here.
Don=92t you have the same issue with your handshaking mechanism?
If you don=92t know your peer, how can you handshake?


Regards,

Patrice
   [Image removed by sender.]


Patrice Brissette
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING

pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>
Phone: +1 613 254 3336


Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco Canada CIE
Canada
Cisco.com<http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/>



[Image removed by sender.]Think before you print.


This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole us=
e of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by=
 others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or a=
uthorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply=
 email and delete all copies of this message.

Please click here<http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/i=
ndex.html> for Company Registration Information.




From: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com<mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com>>
Date: Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 10:24 AM
To: Patrice Brissette <pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>>, John=
 E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>, Ali Sajassi <saja=
ssi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, "bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.o=
rg>" <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Hi Patrice,

Up to reception timer traffic disruption in transient phase is one of the i=
ssues.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: Patrice Brissette (pbrisset) [pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisc=
o.com>]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 20:54
To: Haoweiguo; John E Drake; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:be=
ss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
Weiguo,

You mention "But if your draft have not solved all issues=94,
Can you explain what Satya=92s draft is not solving?


Regards,

Patrice
   [Image removed by sender.]


Patrice Brissette
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING

pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>
Phone: +1 613 254 3336


Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco Canada CIE
Canada
Cisco.com<http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/>



[Image removed by sender.]Think before you print.


This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole us=
e of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by=
 others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or a=
uthorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply=
 email and delete all copies of this message.

Please click here<http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/i=
ndex.html> for Company Registration Information.




From: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com<mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com>>
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 10:38 PM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>, Ali Sajas=
si <sajassi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, "bess@ietf.org<mailto:bes=
s@ietf.org>" <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Hi John,

 Firstly i think EVPN community should reach consensus on the issues of cur=
rent DF election mechanism. All these issues should be resolved in a single=
 new DF election draft,rather than in multiple separate drafts. If your dra=
ft can solve all these issues and stable, i have no question for its progre=
ssing. But if your draft have not solved all issues, i think it had better =
combine with other drafts to provide a comprehensive solution. I think the =
issues listed in draft-rabadan-bess-evpn-ac-df-01 and draft-hao-bess-evpn-d=
f-handshaking-00 is valid, it should be resolved. So i think although your =
new Hash algorithm for DF election is good, it only includes partial enhanc=
ements, maybe it still needs some time for consensus.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:16
To: Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
Weiguo,

Your proposal introduces a control plane processing load that is O(#EVIs * =
PEs) per DF election and given that there can be 4K EVIs per ES, this looks=
 like a *substantial* load.  Furthermore,
you can=92t  use the ES route to co-ordinate DF election because you would =
need to carry your new extended community for each EVI and they would not a=
ll fit.  You also can=92t use the Per EVI Ethernet AD route because that is=
 processed by all PEs in the EVI.

I think that from a practical perspective the new DF election proposed in S=
atya=92s draft is sufficiently stable that it renders your draft moot, even=
 if it could be made to work.
Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:34 PM
To: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Hi Ali,

Thanks for your information. I scanned through this draft, it really introd=
uces inter-chassis message for DF election handshaking, the requirements in=
 this draft is to eliminate transiet Loop and traffic duplication. Current =
EVPN DF election mechanism already eliminated loop and traffic duplication =
by configuring long reception timer on each multi-homed PE, but up to recep=
tion timer traffic disruption issue still exist. EVPN for DCI is an importa=
nt use case for EVPN, up to reception timer traffic disruption can't be tol=
erated for service providers, it should be improved.

Also for accuracy, i think handshaking state machine on each multi-homed PE=
 is also needed. From solution perspective, in my draft, no inter-chassis m=
essage is introduced, only one new extended community is introduced, i thin=
k the process is comparatively simple than your following draft.



Current EVPN DF election has some drawbacks, so there are three new drafts =
about DF election emerged. I think BESS WG can consider these three drafts =
in global view,  a single,comprehensive new DF election draft is hoped.



thanks.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: BESS [bess-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org>] on behalf =
of Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [sajassi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 0:21
To: bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorith=
m

FYI- First published July 4, 2011

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-segment-route/


-Ali

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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" fPStyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0=
">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Hi John,</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Your summary is good. Pls see my furth=
er reply inline with [weiguo].</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Thanks,</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">weiguo</font></p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF304235"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]<br=
>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 03, 2015 21:38<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Weiguo,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I have been marginally paying attention to t=
his email thread and I thought I should update the points we have establish=
ed.&nbsp; In addition to the points listed
 in my email, below, I think we have established that;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">1)&nbsp; Your proposal is even more broken t=
han I I previously indicated because you have no way to identify to which E=
VI your DF election handshake applies</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">[weiguo]: Firstly we had better reach consen=
sus on the problem(Loop and MAC flip-flop in transient peirod for MHN) that=
 we are trying to resolve, then we can
 search for the suitable solution. The current proposed solution is to use =
A-D route for handshaking, the A-D route can identify EVI.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">2)&nbsp; Your DF election handshake only app=
lies to single-active MHN, if it applies at all.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">[weiguo]: Yes, currently our DF election han=
dshake can be used to avoid loop and mac flip-flop for single-active MHN in=
 transiet state. For MHD, if CE receives
 BUM traffic from PE1, the CE won't send the traffic back to another multi-=
homed PE2, so the loop won't be formed.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">3)&nbsp; Your DF election handshake creates =
a window in which no PE is the DF which leads to the black-holing of traffi=
c.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">[weiguo]:The window is&nbsp; BGP message tra=
nsmission timer, all handshake mechanism has this issue and i think it is m=
ore acceptable than loop and mac flip-flop.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">4)&nbsp; Because the EVPN routes are not tim=
e-stamped, you entire discussion of NTP and PTP is completely irrelevant.</=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">[weiguo]: OK.
</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Yours Irrespectively,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">John</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif;=
 FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',san=
s-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> John E Drake
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Haoweiguo'; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">To recap,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">We have established that your proposal is un=
tenable because of its control plane load.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">We have established that your proposal is ba=
sed upon a flawed understanding of the DF election in RFC 7432.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">What you are now arguing is that your draft =
prevents two or more PEs from being DF simultaneously.&nbsp; This is clearl=
y nonsense.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Furthermore, we have established that having=
 two or more DFs for what even you admit is a brief transient leads to dupl=
icate traffic, which is acceptable,
 but not loops, your assertion to the contrary.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Yours Irrespectively,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">John</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif;=
 FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',san=
s-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> Haoweiguo [<a href=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 5:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">John,</s=
pan><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">As your =
understanding of the EVPN draft, the DF election mechanism has more serious=
 side effect, it will have short time traffic loop,i.e., dual DF PEs will e=
xist for a short time. I think dual
 DF PEs is absolutely not tolerated, because native ethernet header has no =
TTL, up to several hundred ms traffic loop normally not tolerated in commer=
tial networks.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR=
: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE=
: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">As your =
understanding, the PEs should do as following:</span><span style=3D"FONT-FA=
MILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">1. Accur=
ate timer sync. NTP accuracy is bad, 1588v2 is good but have rarely deploym=
ent.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; F=
ONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Assuming=
 PE1,PE2 and PE3 have consistent timer clock, when PE3 joins ESI and trigge=
r DF re-election. When reception timer expires:</span><span style=3D"FONT-F=
AMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">PE1 upgr=
ades to DF PE.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR=
: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">After re=
ception timer&#43; ES route transmission timer:</span><span style=3D"FONT-F=
AMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">PE2 down=
loads to non-DF PE.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">So in ti=
mer clock sync case, dual DF PEs will exist at least transmission timer.</s=
pan><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE=
: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">If NTP i=
s used for timer sync, because it has bad accuracy, dual DF PEs will exist =
more longer timer.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; C=
OLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE=
: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">So as yo=
ur understanding for DF election, the drawback is more clear.</span><span s=
tyle=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></=
span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE=
: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Thanks,<=
/span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">weiguo</=
span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF234411">
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT=
-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></=
b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE:=
 10pt"> John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 27, 2015 4:41<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Weiguo,</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">We have already established that your propos=
al is untenable because of its control plane load.
</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">What we are now discussing is that your prop=
osal is based upon a misunderstanding of the algorithm in RFC 7432.&nbsp; Y=
ou are assuming that PE1 will advertise an
 ES route and then wait for the configured interval before performing the D=
F election while PE2 and PE3 will perform the DF election as soon as they r=
eceive the ES route from PE1.&nbsp; This is not what RFC 7432 says.</span><=
span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Rather, what is says is that the advertiseme=
nt of the ES route by PE1 and its receipt by PE2 and PE3 causes all three P=
Es to start the configured interval
 timer&nbsp; - =933. When the timer expires, each PE builds an ordered list=
 of the IP addresses of all the PE nodes connected to the Ethernet segment =
(including itself), in increasing numeric value.=94</span><span style=3D"CO=
LOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Yours Irrespectively,</span><span style=3D"C=
OLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">John</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif;=
 COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:=
 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> Haoweiguo [<a href=
=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.=
com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 3:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Pls read=
 my detail replies to Satya. If you still can't catch it, pls read my draft=
 and EVPN base protocol, &nbsp;thanks</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></=
span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">weiguo</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF478649">
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT=
-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></=
b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE:=
 10pt"> John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 27, 2015 1:28<br>
<b>To:</b> Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">I think Patrice is corr=
ect. &nbsp;Your proposal doesn't solve the problem and it does so at huge c=
ost.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: =
black"><br>
On Mar 26, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Patrice Brissette (pbrisset) &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:pbrisset@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">pbrisset@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Weiguo,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">I=92m not sure I=92m fo=
llowing here.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Don=92t you have the sa=
me issue with your handshaking mechanism?&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">If you don=92t know you=
r peer, how can you handshake?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Regards,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: =
black">Patrice</span></p>
<table style=3D"WIDTH: 407.25pt" class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cell=
spacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"543">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in">
<table style=3D"WIDTH: 407.25pt" class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cell=
spacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"543">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in" colspan=3D"3">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp;<span style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtex=
t 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDIN=
G-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-R=
IGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in"><img id=3D"_x0000_i1027" bord=
er=3D"0" alt=3D"Image removed by sender." src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01D06DF1.=
76628B60" width=3D"110" height=3D"73"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0.25in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;=
 PADDING-TOP: 0in" valign=3D"top" nowrap=3D"">
<p><strong><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: #666666; =
FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt">Patrice Brissette</span></strong><span style=3D"FONT-FAMI=
LY: 'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: #666666; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt"><br>
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"COLO=
R: #666666; TEXT-DECORATION: none">pbrisset@cisco.com</span></a><br>
Phone: <strong><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif">&#43;1 613 2=
54 3336</span></strong></span></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 15pt; WIDTH: 50%; PADDING=
-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 11.25pt" valign=3D"top" width=3D"50%">
<p><strong><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: #666666; =
FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt">Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco Canada CIE<=
/span></strong><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: #6666=
66; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt"><br>
Canada<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"COLOR: #666666; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Cisco.com</span></a></span></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in">
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in" colspan=3D"3">
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<table style=3D"WIDTH: 300pt" class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspa=
cing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"400">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0.25in; PADDING-RIGHT: 15pt=
; PADDING-TOP: 3.75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; =
BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: #009900; FONT-S=
IZE: 7.5pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt =
solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in"><img id=3D"_x0000_i1028" border=3D"0" alt=3D"Image=
 removed by sender." src=3D"cid:image002.jpg@01D06DF1.76628B60" width=3D"10=
0" height=3D"100"></span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #009900; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">Think
 before you print.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 4.5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.25in; PADDING-RIGHT: 15=
pt; PADDING-TOP: 5.25pt">
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E: 7.5pt">This email may contain confidential and privileged material for t=
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cipient), please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies of=
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E: 7.5pt">Please
<a title=3D"Legal Information" href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing=
_business/legal/cri/index.html" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"COLOR: #0e58a0">click here</span></a> for Company Registrati=
on Information.</span></p>
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</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><br clear=3D"all">
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif;=
 COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Haoweiguo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">haoweiguo@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 10:24 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Patrice Brissette &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">pbrisset@cisco.com</a>&gt;, John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;, Ali Saj=
assi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sajassi@cis=
co.com</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>=
&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 4.5pt=
 solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt;=
 PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Hi Patri=
ce,</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Up to re=
ception timer traffic disruption in transient phase is one of the issues.</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Thanks,<=
/span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">weiguo</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF422254">
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT=
-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></=
b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE:=
 10pt"> Patrice Brissette (pbrisset) [<a href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">pbrisset@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 20:54<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; John E Drake; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailt=
o:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Weiguo,</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: black">You mention &quot;</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black">But if yo=
ur draft have not solved all issues=94,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Can you explain what Sa=
tya=92s draft is not solving?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Regards,</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black">=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FA=
MILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Patrice</span>=
<span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp;<span style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtex=
t 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDIN=
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<p><strong><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: #666666; =
FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt">Patrice Brissette</span></strong><span style=3D"FONT-FAMI=
LY: 'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: #666666; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt"><br>
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING<br>
<br>
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Phone: <strong><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif">&#43;1 613 2=
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<p><strong><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: #666666; =
FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt">Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco Canada CIE<=
/span></strong><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: #6666=
66; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt"><br>
Canada<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"COLOR: #666666; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Cisco.com</span></a></span></p>
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DDING-TOP: 0in" colspan=3D"3">
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<table style=3D"WIDTH: 300pt" class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspa=
cing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"400">
<tbody>
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; PADDING-TOP: 3.75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; =
BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; =
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IZE: 7.5pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt =
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LOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><br clear=3D"all">
</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif;=
 COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Haoweiguo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">haoweiguo@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 10:38 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;, Ali Sajassi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:saja=
ssi@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sajassi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=
=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 4.5pt=
 solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt;=
 PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Hi John,=
</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">&nbsp;Fi=
rstly i think EVPN community should reach consensus on the issues of curren=
t DF election mechanism. All these issues should be resolved in a single ne=
w DF election draft,rather than in multiple
 separate drafts. If your draft can solve all these issues and stable, i ha=
ve no question for its progressing. But if your draft have not solved all i=
ssues, i think it had better combine with other drafts to provide a compreh=
ensive solution. I think the issues
 listed in draft-rabadan-bess-evpn-ac-df-01 and draft-hao-bess-evpn-df-hand=
shaking-00 is valid, it should be resolved. So i think although your new Ha=
sh algorithm for DF election is good, it only includes partial enhancements=
, maybe it still needs some time
 for consensus.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Thanks,<=
/span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black">weiguo</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF271558">
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT=
-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></=
b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE:=
 10pt"> John E Drake [<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blan=
k">jdrake@juniper.net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:16<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Weiguo,</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Your proposal introduces a control plane pro=
cessing load that is O(#EVIs * PEs) per DF election and given that there ca=
n be 4K EVIs per ES, this looks like
 a *<b>substantial</b>* load.&nbsp; Furthermore,</span><span style=3D"COLOR=
: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">you can=92t &nbsp;use the ES route to co-ord=
inate DF election because you would need to carry your new extended communi=
ty for each EVI and they would not all fit.&nbsp;
 You also can=92t use the Per EVI Ethernet AD route because that is process=
ed by all PEs in the EVI.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I think that from a practical perspective th=
e new DF election proposed in Satya=92s draft is sufficiently stable that i=
t renders your draft moot, even if it
 could be made to work.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Yours Irrespectively,</span><span style=3D"C=
OLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">John</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif;=
 COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:=
 'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> BESS [<a href=3D"mai=
lto:bess-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org</=
a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haoweiguo<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Hi Ali,</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Thanks fo=
r your information. I scanned through this draft, it really introduces inte=
r-chassis message for DF election handshaking, the requirements in this dra=
ft is to eliminate transiet Loop and
 traffic duplication. Current EVPN DF election mechanism already eliminated=
 loop and traffic duplication by configuring long reception timer on each m=
ulti-homed PE, but up to reception timer traffic disruption issue still exi=
st. EVPN for DCI is an important
 use case for EVPN, up to reception timer traffic disruption can't be toler=
ated for service providers, it should be improved.</span><span style=3D"COL=
OR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Also for =
accuracy, i think handshaking state machine on each multi-homed PE is also =
needed. From solution perspective, in my draft, no inter-chassis message is=
 introduced, only one new extended
 community is introduced, i think the process is comparatively simple than =
your following draft.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Current E=
VPN DF election has some drawbacks, so there are three new drafts about DF =
election emerged. I think BESS WG can consider these three drafts in global=
 view,&nbsp; a single,comprehensive new
 DF election draft is hoped.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black">thanks.</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black">Thanks,</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black">weiguo</s=
pan><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF484031">
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT=
-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></=
b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE:=
 10pt"> BESS [<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">be=
ss-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
 on behalf of Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">sajassi@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 0:21<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos a=
lgorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">FYI- First published Ju=
ly 4, 2011</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><a href=3D"https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-segment-route" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-segment-route=
</a>/</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">-Ali</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: "Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge)" <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>, "draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] PBB-EVPN draft - use of sticky bit in mac mobility ext. com.
Thread-Index: AQHQbCN84MFbGAANckOZK5Xiu2V3gJ1A+vuA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 06:16:53 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] PBB-EVPN draft - use of sticky bit in mac mobility ext. com.
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--_000_D148B8FE12FB29sajassiciscocom_
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Hi Jorge,

The current text in pbb-evpn draft doesn=92t prohibit the use of =93sticky-=
bit=94. The initial advertisement for a BMAC can be sent with this bit set =
(where the sequence # is zero). For flushing CMAC addresses in PBB-EVPN, MA=
C mobility extended community is used with sequence number incremented (for=
 shared BMACs). These two functions are separate and are two different thin=
gs (learning BMAC versus flushing CMACs). Are you concern about a scenario =
where right after configuration of the shared BMAC, there is a failure for =
Single-Active MHD/MHN, where another BMAC advertisement with MAC mobility i=
s sent, and the RR only sends the latter advertisement?

Cheers,
Ali

From: <Rabadan>, "Jorge (Jorge)" <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:j=
orge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 7:28 PM
To: "draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-e=
vpn@tools.ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft=
-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn@tools.ietf.org>>
Cc: "bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>" <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: [bess] PBB-EVPN draft - use of sticky bit in mac mobility ext. com=
.

Dear authors,

In PBB-EVPN we advertise PE shared BMACs or dedicated (per-ES) BMACs. Eithe=
r way, I believe it is a good practice to advertise them as =92static=92 i.=
e. along with the =92sticky=92 bit. That provides a natural protection agai=
nst BMACs that might be learnt locally and are not =91managed=92.

In RFC7432, when the sticky bit is set, the sequence number is zero.
For PBB-EVPN, that means that when shared BMACs are used and per-ISID load =
balancing multihoming is in place, the shared BMACs cannot be advertised as=
 static (since the sequence number is used as a CMAC flush notification).

Since the PE BMACs are not subject to mobility procedures and are by nature=
 =91static=92 and managed, would it be possible to explicitly allow in the =
pbb-evpn draft the advertisement of the sticky bit along with a sequence nu=
mber, when the mac-mobility extended community is used for CMAC flush notif=
ication?

This can be optional and would allow an extra level of security in a PBB-EV=
PN network.
If you agree with that, I can provide a text if needed.

Looking forward to your feedback.
Thank you.
Jorge

--_000_D148B8FE12FB29sajassiciscocom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-ID: <EEB2AC65BD2F9B4AB8B782B43306C0FC@emea.cisco.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi Jorge,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The current text in pbb-evpn draft doesn=92t prohibit the use of =93st=
icky-bit=94. The initial advertisement for a BMAC can be sent with this bit=
 set (where the sequence # is zero). For flushing CMAC addresses in PBB-EVP=
N, MAC mobility extended community is
 used with sequence number incremented (for shared BMACs). These two functi=
ons are separate and are two different things (learning BMAC versus flushin=
g CMACs). Are you concern about a scenario where right after configuration =
of the shared BMAC, there is a failure
 for Single-Active MHD/MHN, where another BMAC advertisement with MAC mobil=
ity is sent, and the RR only sends the latter advertisement?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Ali &nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Lucida Grande; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; c=
olor:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-B=
OTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt =
solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&lt;Rabadan&gt;, &quot;Jorge =
(Jorge)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com">jorge=
.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 7:=
28 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-i=
etf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn@tools.ietf.org=
</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn@tools.ietf.org">=
draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ie=
tf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[bess] PBB-EVPN draft - us=
e of sticky bit in mac mobility ext. com.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 15px; font-famil=
y: Avenir, sans-serif;">
<div>
<div>Dear authors,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In PBB-EVPN we advertise PE shared BMACs or dedicated (per-ES) BMACs. =
Either way, I believe it is a good practice to advertise them as =92static=
=92 i.e. along with the =92sticky=92 bit. That provides a natural protectio=
n against BMACs that might be learnt locally
 and are not =91managed=92.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In RFC7432, when the sticky bit is set, the sequence number is zero.</=
div>
<div>For PBB-EVPN, that means that when shared BMACs are used and per-ISID =
load balancing multihoming is in place, the shared BMACs cannot be advertis=
ed as static (since the sequence number is used as a CMAC flush notificatio=
n).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since the PE BMACs are not subject to mobility procedures and are by n=
ature =91static=92 and managed, would it be possible to
<u>explicitly</u> allow in the pbb-evpn draft the advertisement of the stic=
ky bit along with a sequence number, when the mac-mobility extended communi=
ty is used for CMAC flush notification?</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This can be optional and would allow an extra level of security in a P=
BB-EVPN network.</div>
<div>If you agree with that, I can provide a text if needed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Looking forward to your feedback.</div>
<div>Thank you.</div>
<div>Jorge</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D148B8FE12FB29sajassiciscocom_--


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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com>, "Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)" <pbrisset@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm
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Cc: "Ali Sajassi \(sajassi\)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm
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Weiguo,

Snipped, comments inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: Haoweiguo [mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com]
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2015 10:03 PM
To: John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Hi John,

Your summary is good. Pls see my further reply inline with [weiguo].

Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 21:38
To: Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
Weiguo,

I have been marginally paying attention to this email thread and I thought =
I should update the points we have established.  In addition to the points =
listed in my email, below, I think we have established that;

1)  Your proposal is even more broken than I I previously indicated because=
 you have no way to identify to which EVI your DF election handshake applie=
s
[weiguo]: Firstly we had better reach consensus on the problem(Loop and MAC=
 flip-flop in transient peirod for MHN) that we are trying to resolve, then=
 we can search for the suitable solution. The current proposed solution is =
to use A-D route for handshaking, the A-D route can identify EVI.

[JD]  I don't think there is a problem to be solved, so the first order of =
business is for you to write a draft clearly articulating the problems you =
perceive and their ramifications.  Please keep in mind that single-active, =
and more specifically single-active MHN, is not where I think we should foc=
us our resources.  DCI, for example, uses all-active.

Further, as I had previously pointed out, we can't use an EVPN route that g=
oes to all PEs so the Per EVI Ethernet AD route can't be used.


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Weiguo,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Snipped, comments inline.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Haoweiguo [mailto:haoweiguo@hu=
awei.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 06, 2015 10:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">H=
i John,</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Y=
our summary is good. Pls see my further reply inline with [weiguo].</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">T=
hanks,</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">w=
eiguo</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF304235">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 03, 2015 21:38<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Weiguo,</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I have been marginally paying attenti=
on to this email thread and I thought I should update the points we have es=
tablished.&nbsp; In addition to the points listed in
 my email, below, I think we have established that;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1)&nbsp; Your proposal is even more b=
roken than I I previously indicated because you have no way to identify to =
which EVI your DF election handshake applies</span><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">[weiguo]: Firstly we had better reach=
 consensus on the problem(Loop and MAC flip-flop in transient peirod for MH=
N) that we are trying to resolve, then we can
 search for the suitable solution. The current proposed solution is to use =
A-D route for handshaking, the A-D route can identify EVI.</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:blac=
k"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">[JD]&nbsp; I don&#8217;t think =
there is a problem to be solved, so the first order of business is for you =
to write a draft clearly articulating the problems you perceive
 and their ramifications.&nbsp; Please keep in mind that single-active, and=
 more specifically single-active MHN, is not where I think we should focus =
our resources.&nbsp; DCI, for example, uses all-active.<o:p></o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Further, as I had previously po=
inted out, we can&#8217;t use an EVPN route that goes to all PEs so the Per=
 EVI Ethernet AD route can&#8217;t be used.&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b=
></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From: "Satya Mohanty (satyamoh)" <satyamoh@cisco.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com>, "Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)" <pbrisset@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm
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Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 19:00:44 +0000
Message-ID: <D14AC870.2D6B9%satyamoh@cisco.com>
References: <D1384AA7.12E0C1%sajassi@cisco.com> <DD5FC8DE455C3348B94340C0AB5517334F8571E7@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <BLUPR05MB5629642F4A86ED28469DF19C70B0@BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <DD5FC8DE455C3348B94340C0AB5517334F857294@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <D1396B6C.4EDD3%pbrisset@cisco.com> <DD5FC8DE455C3348B94340C0AB5517334F8573CC@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <D13990E2.4EE3E%pbrisset@cisco.com> <FB7DD2A6-C205-4F9D-A70B-A73A564E1F99@juniper.net> <DD5FC8DE455C3348B94340C0AB5517334F857483@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <BLUPR05MB56203C9BEDD75197CAE5489C7080@BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <DD5FC8DE455C3348B94340C0AB5517334F8574F0@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <DM2PR05MB573DBCF35B6E17E54E4D603C7F10@DM2PR05MB573.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <DD5FC8DE455C3348B94340C0AB5517334F8598E4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <BLUPR05MB562E4747A26DB634EC053A1C7FD0@BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
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Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm
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--_000_D14AC8702D6B9satyamohciscocom_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Also, as in the private communication, I don=92t really see any mac flip-fl=
op issue as we are considering the same ESI.
It is "NOT" equivalent to the mac-mobility.

Thanks,
--Satya

From: "jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net<m=
ailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 6:53 AM
To: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com<mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com>>, "Patrice=
 Brissette (pbrisset)" <pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>>
Cc: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, =
"bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>" <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm

Weiguo,

Snipped, comments inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: Haoweiguo [mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com]
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2015 10:03 PM
To: John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Hi John,

Your summary is good. Pls see my further reply inline with [weiguo].

Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>]
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 21:38
To: Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
Weiguo,

I have been marginally paying attention to this email thread and I thought =
I should update the points we have established.  In addition to the points =
listed in my email, below, I think we have established that;

1)  Your proposal is even more broken than I I previously indicated because=
 you have no way to identify to which EVI your DF election handshake applie=
s
[weiguo]: Firstly we had better reach consensus on the problem(Loop and MAC=
 flip-flop in transient peirod for MHN) that we are trying to resolve, then=
 we can search for the suitable solution. The current proposed solution is =
to use A-D route for handshaking, the A-D route can identify EVI.

[JD]  I don=92t think there is a problem to be solved, so the first order o=
f business is for you to write a draft clearly articulating the problems yo=
u perceive and their ramifications.  Please keep in mind that single-active=
, and more specifically single-active MHN, is not where I think we should f=
ocus our resources.  DCI, for example, uses all-active.

Further, as I had previously pointed out, we can=92t use an EVPN route that=
 goes to all PEs so the Per EVI Ethernet AD route can=92t be used.


--_000_D14AC8702D6B9satyamohciscocom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-ID: <5DEB024DEC0E1745856E2CAFA822EB86@emea.cisco.com>
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<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>Also, as in the private communication, I don=92t really see any mac fl=
ip-flop issue as we are considering the same ESI.</div>
<div>It is &quot;NOT&quot; equivalent to the mac-mobility.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>--Satya</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
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 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@ju=
niper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, April 7, 2015 6:53 A=
M<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Haoweiguo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:haoweiguo@huawei.com">haoweiguo@huawei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Patrice Brissett=
e (pbrisset)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com">pbrisset@cisco=
.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;Ali Sajassi (sajassi)&quo=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quo=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [bess] Handshaking amo=
ng PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Weiguo,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Snipped, comments inline.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; "> Haoweiguo [<a href=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.=
com">mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 06, 2015 10:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Hi John=
,</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; co=
lor: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Your su=
mmary is good. Pls see my further reply inline with [weiguo].</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; "><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Thanks,=
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; col=
or: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">weiguo<=
/span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; colo=
r: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF304235">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; ">From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color:=
 black; "> John E Drake [<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@junip=
er.net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 03, 2015 21:38<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Weiguo,</span><span style=3D"color=
:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I have been marginally paying atte=
ntion to this email thread and I thought I should update the points we have=
 established.&nbsp; In addition to the points
 listed in my email, below, I think we have established that;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">1)&nbsp; Your proposal is even mor=
e broken than I I previously indicated because you have no way to identify =
to which EVI your DF election handshake applies</span><span style=3D"color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[weiguo]: Firstly we had better re=
ach consensus on the problem(Loop and MAC flip-flop in transient peirod for=
 MHN) that we are trying to resolve,
 then we can search for the suitable solution. The current proposed solutio=
n is to use A-D route for handshaking, the A-D route can identify EVI.</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i>=
</b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[JD]&nbsp; I don=92t think t=
here is a problem to be solved, so the first order of business is for you t=
o write a draft clearly articulating the problems
 you perceive and their ramifications.&nbsp; Please keep in mind that singl=
e-active, and more specifically single-active MHN, is not where I think we =
should focus our resources.&nbsp; DCI, for example, uses all-active.<o:p></=
o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i>=
</b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Further, as I had previously=
 pointed out, we can=92t use an EVPN route that goes to all PEs so the Per =
EVI Ethernet AD route can=92t be used.&nbsp;
 &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i>=
</b></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D14AC8702D6B9satyamohciscocom_--


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The BESS minutes for IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).  Should you
want to make changes to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.
The minutes have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at: 

 

http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=tr
ue

 

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class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt'>The BESS minutes for IETF 92 session are =
attached (html, pdf).&nbsp; Should you want to make changes to the =
minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.&nbsp; The minutes have been =
upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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<body>&nbsp;BESS WG (3&#x2F;25&#x2F;2015) [9:00 - =
11:30]&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>BESS WG =
(3&#x2F;25&#x2F;2015)&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>1) WG Status, chairs, =
10 minutes]&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>Slides: <a =
href=3D"https&#x3a;&#x2F;&#x2F;tools&#x2e;ietf&#x2e;org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;=
92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides&#x2d;92&#x2d;bess&#x2d;13&#x2e;pdf">https:&#x2=
F;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides-92-bes=
s-13.pdf</a><br>&nbsp;<br>Discussions:<br><ul class=3D"bullet"><li>Ali =
Sajassi: WithRespect to the WG document that did not get adopted, some =
people missed the WGcall. This included myself and several co-authors. =
We would&nbsp; ask for a re-initiation of the WG =
adoptioncall..</li><li>Thomas Morin: We as chairs need to hear more from =
people who actually needs this.&nbsp;</li><li>Ali Sajassi: Sure. Since =
the call there has been a lot of discussion on the [topicssurrounding =
this draft], but some people had the discussion =
offline.&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas:It is good to have the discussions on this =
topic on the mail list.&nbsp; It is good for people to be involved in =
thisproposal. This is true for most documents we have that we do not =
have enoughdiscussion on the mail list. We have a continuous issue that =
most documentswere discussed on the mail list.&nbsp; This isnot specific =
to this document.&nbsp;</li><li>Ali Sajassi: I will encourage =
thesediscussions to go the list.&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas: You can summarize =
the commentsyou have received and share them on the mailing =
list.&nbsp;</li><li>Ali Sajassi: This sounds like a =
goodidea.&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas Morin:&nbsp; Here a few documents on the =
mail list thatpeople could comment on the following documents at this =
point:&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><ul =
class=3D"bullet"><li>draft-ietf-bess-l2l3-vpn-mcast,&nbsp;</li><li>draft-=
ietf-bess-mvpn-mib,&nbsp;</li><li>draft-ietf-bess-virtual-pe,&nbsp;</li><=
li>draft-ietf-bess-end-system-requirements,</li><li>draft-ietf-l2vpn-tril=
l-evpn</li><li>draft-ietf-bess-vpls-multihoming,</li><li>draft-ietf-l3vpn=
-mvpn-pe-ce, =
and&nbsp;</li><li>draft-ietf-l3vpn-virtual-subnet.</li></ul><li>Thomas: =
Hearing no requests to provideupdate =
information.&nbsp;</li></ul>&nbsp;<br>2) =
draft-xu-bess-l3vpn-prefix-orf&nbsp; [Xiaohu Xu, 10 minutes]&nbsp;<br>3) =
draft-xu-bess-virtual-subnet-rib-reduction[Xiaohu Xu, 20 =
minutes]&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; XiaohuX., 20 mi<br>&nbsp;<br><a =
href=3D"https&#x3a;&#x2F;&#x2F;tools&#x2e;ietf&#x2e;org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;=
92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides&#x2d;92&#x2d;bess&#x2d;8&#x2e;pdf">https:&#x2F=
;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides-92-bess=
-8.pdf</a><br><a =
href=3D"https&#x3a;&#x2F;&#x2F;tools&#x2e;ietf&#x2e;org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;=
92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides&#x2d;92&#x2d;bess&#x2d;9&#x2e;pdf">https:&#x2F=
;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides-92-bess=
-9.pdf</a><br>&nbsp;<br>Discussion:[no =
comments]&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>4) =
draft-morin-bess-mvpn-fast-failover [RobertKebler]&nbsp;<br>[time:35:00 =
-38:00]&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br><a =
href=3D"https&#x3a;&#x2F;&#x2F;tools&#x2e;ietf&#x2e;org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;=
92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides&#x2d;92&#x2d;bess&#x2d;6&#x2e;pdf">https:&#x2F=
;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides-92-bess=
-6.pdf</a><br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br><strong>Discussion:</strong><br><ul =
class=3D"bullet"><li>Robert: This has been presentedbefore.&nbsp; =
Addition sin e the last meetingwas an additional method of determining =
P-Tunnel status, and use MF-BFD (due tomerge)&nbsp;</li><li>Robert: We =
ask for adoption by theWG.&nbsp; It is implemented by =
multiplevendors.&nbsp;</li><li>Nobo [Big Switch]:&nbsp; A minor comment =
the BGP attributes describes 2octets, but it should be 4 =
octets.&nbsp;</li><li>Robert: Thank you for that =
comment.&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas: We were waiting for the mergeyou =
mentioned to query for adoption. We&#8217;d like a feeling from the room =
on who thinks this draft is ready forWG adoption</li><li>[10 hands =
raised]&nbsp;</li></ul><br><strong>5) =
draft-dolganow-bess-mvpn-expl-track =
[EricRosen]&nbsp;</strong><br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Time: [38:00&#8211; =
50:00]&nbsp;<br><br><strong>Discussion:</strong><br><ul =
class=3D"bullet"><li><strong>Thomas:</strong>Is this ready for =
adoption?&nbsp;</li><li><strong>Eric:</strong>The document is sufficient =
to provide a basis for additional work.&nbsp; I have not heard an =
alternative.&nbsp; The fix is correct, but people wouldadditions or =
discuss the performance of fixes.&nbsp;</li><li><strong>Andrew: =
</strong>We would like to have one more revision before WG adoption =
call.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li><strong>Eric:</strong>It does not matter =
whether the fixes are in the document before WG adoptioncall.&nbsp; The =
fixes are clarifying thedefinitions within the =
draft.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li><strong>[Andrew or someone]: </strong>I =
request that people who are implemented the explicit tracking, it would =
be good for people to review what is written =
here.&nbsp;</li><li><strong>Eric: </strong>It would be nice to hear on =
the list aboutinteroperability =
problems.<strong>&nbsp;</strong></li></ul>&nbsp;<br>6) =
draft-kebler-bess-sa-pref (Robert Kepler], 5min<br>&nbsp;Time: 51:00 =
&#8211; 56:00<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https&#x3a;&#x2F;&#x2F;tools&#x2e;ietf&#x2e;org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;=
92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides&#x2d;92&#x2d;bess&#x2d;7&#x2e;pdf">https:&#x2F=
;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides-92-bess=
-7.pdf</a><br>&nbsp;<br>Topic: MVPN UMHSelection procedrues using =
Source-active A-D routes<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Previous RFC 6513(source address)&nbsp;<br><br>Why more: Anycast from =
multiple headends&nbsp;<br><br>Discussion:&nbsp;<br><ul =
class=3D"bullet"><li>Thomas Morin (?): Is this solution uniqueto the =
anycast?&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Robert Keler (Juniper): =
Yes&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas Morin: One comment I would haveis the problem =
statement seems generic multicast and not specific to any =
sourcemulticast.&nbsp; Have you thought about asolution that would =
applicable as to SSM =
multicast?&nbsp;&nbsp;<em>&nbsp;&nbsp;</em></li><li>Robert Keler: The =
procedures are not applicable to SSM due to the way the RP learnsabout =
the type 5 routes from the RP, and applies the filtering. If you =
arestating that we should consider SSM and make this solution more =
general, we cando this.&nbsp; As the document stands now itis ASM =
only.&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas Morin: Thank =
you.&nbsp;</li></ul>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>7) draft-ietf-bess-pta-flags =
[Eric Rosen, 20minutes]<br>&nbsp; Time: 56:00 &#8211; 1:15<br><a =
href=3D"https&#x3a;&#x2F;&#x2F;tools&#x2e;ietf&#x2e;org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;=
92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides&#x2d;92&#x2d;bess&#x2d;4&#x2e;pdf">https:&#x2F=
;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides-92-bess=
-4.pdf</a><br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;Topic: Setting up theIANA Registry for the =
PMSI Tunnel Attribute Flags<br>&nbsp;Why:&nbsp; RFC6514 defines thePSMI =
Tunnel Attribute (PTA), but it did not set-up the PMSI tunnelattribute. =
Other drafts have beengrabbing bits for use for new purposes (5 of 7 =
available bits areclaimed). Without a registry, the bits are =
clashed.<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;Discussion:&nbsp;<br><ul =
class=3D"bullet"><li>[Jorge Rabadan](Alcatel-Lucent):I am one of the =
authors of the optimized solution.&nbsp; We have a PTA in the EVPN =
draft.&nbsp; My personal opinion is that I do not likeproposal 1.&nbsp; =
It implies that we need tomove to additional attribute.&nbsp; We seethis =
as an unnecessary since we have bits in the PTA in the EVPN. We =
understandthe complication of adding SAFIs per tunnel type.&nbsp; In my =
personal opinion, the fair tradeoffwould be a registry per SAFI. If we =
agree on that point, we can change ourdraft from per tunnel type to per =
SAFI type. I believe it would be good to take this discussion to the =
list, and seeif people are making use of the =
solutions.&nbsp;</li><li>[Thomas]: I have onecomment on proposal 1 for =
Registry proposal. As you formulated it, you suggestwe avoid flags =
specific to particular tunnel types. We are not looking a spacewhere =
have a scarce resource. As you explained here, we have many options =
toplace future flags.&nbsp; I think we shouldstrive to go forward to the =
simplest solution for IANA.&nbsp; Either proposal 1 or proposal 0 =
(donothing).&nbsp; We should try to do thesimpliest space.&nbsp; For =
future solutions,you could use an extended =
community.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>[Eric]: I think this isa sensible =
comment, and preserves the bits we have already used (that is thebits =
the people have squatted on). We will have to do something =
else.&nbsp;</li><li>[Loa Anderson]: While, I do not want to make things =
complicated for IANA, and I do not have a hard preference for one of the =
proposals &#8211; but I think the argument that it is hard for IANA to =
manage is a little bit is confusing. The issue is the policy weneed to =
write for IANA to manage the assignments in the registries.&nbsp; If you =
write a clear and good policy, it is easier for IANA to manage the =
registries.&nbsp;</li><li>[Eric]: I disagree withyou. I recently did a =
reconstruction ofthe extended communities registries for IANA.&nbsp; If =
you look at the extendedcommunities specification, the policy was clear =
but it is difficult to interpret.&nbsp; Based on individual authors =
misunderstanding of this policy, the authors have made incorrect =
allocations requests to IANA. Simple structures for the registries will =
make it easier for the authors, and therefore the authors will make less =
messages.&nbsp;</li><li>[Loa]: I will like a simple solution for =
IANA.&nbsp; I am stating is that the problem occurs when the authors =
writing IANA sections, and the working group reviewing the sections make =
mistakes &#8211; this causes problems for IANA.&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas: =
One more comment based on what you are seeing, I not in favor of a =
registry per SAFI due to some extensions we are talking about like your =
___ optimization draft for the EVPN SAFI.&nbsp; In the future, this =
should could be used for the MVPN solution.&nbsp; A registry per SAFI =
does not provide us much benefit in the longer =
term.&nbsp;</li><li>Jeffrey Johnson(Juniper)(?): You can use these bits =
for the new SAFI.&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas (WG chair):Unless it has been =
taken in between. In which case, you will end up with bits for the same =
SAFI.&nbsp;</li><li>Jeffrey Johnson(Juniper): The point is whether MVPN =
can use the same procedure forreplication.&nbsp; L3VPN (?) has the =
virtualhub and spoke that achieves the same thing.&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas =
Morin [WG chair]: We will continue this point on the =
list.&nbsp;</li><li>Eric Rosen [Juniper]: Bits needs to be registered so =
the code-point clashes will not occur in the field.&nbsp;</li><li>Martin =
[WG chair]: We welcome all the parties impacted by this discussion to =
discuss this on the list. We feel this is important to tackle so =
everyone is welcome to provide the =
solution.&nbsp;</li></ul>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>8) =
draft-snr-bess-evpn-na-flags<br>9) draft-snr-bess-evpn-proxy-arp-nd =
(JorgeRabadan, ALU)&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; time: 1:15&#8211; =
1:36<br><a =
href=3D"https&#x3a;&#x2F;&#x2F;tools&#x2e;ietf&#x2e;org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;=
92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides&#x2d;92&#x2d;bess&#x2d;3&#x2e;pdf">https:&#x2F=
;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides-92-bess=
-3.pdf</a><br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;Focus:Proxy-ARP&#x2F;ND =
mechanisms&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; EVPN extended =
community to pass this in the networks<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
(Rbit set for router&#x2F; R bit zero for =
host)&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;Why: RFC7432 does not provide details on =
how to provide proxy arp&#x2F;ND.&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Other documents do not specify EVPN networks and do not solve =
the&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; problem for IXP =
networks.&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br><strong>&nbsp;Discussion:&nbsp;</strong><br>=
&nbsp;<br><ul class=3D"bullet"><li>Weiquo Hao (Huawei): Onthe first =
draft, if the local PE has not learned destination host ARPinformation =
and the CE receives a local ARP request what is the PE behavior?Will it =
drop the ARP or flood the ARP requests?</li><li>Jorge Rabadan =
(ALU):Normally you should flood the unknown ARP requests. In the draft =
we state the PEshould be allowed the ability to drop the ARP request if =
you wanted to. In thecase where all your CE routers are well-known (mac =
and IP addresses are known),you should not have any unknown IP =
addresses. You should have the option to drop or flood these =
request.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Weiquo: If the PEdecides to flag the =
ARP request, how will you consider&#x2F;handle an ARP requestattack? =
Security issues &#8211; if you are receiving lots of ARPs that are part =
of anARP attack. It is a huge burden for the network to handle the ARPs =
for a floodattack.&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge Rabadan (ALU): Youmust be able to =
configure it specifically to avoid the attack. For this usecase, you =
know all the macs and IP addresses, so you the ARP tables arepopulated =
from the management system. Therefore, you should not flood anyunknown =
IP address (or ARP packet). Also, because know all the IP&#8217;s you =
canenable the IP duplicate section, and monitor the IP =
moves.&nbsp;</li><li>Weiquo: We can discussin detail off =
line.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Erik Nordmark (AristaNetworks): I think it is =
great you are writing this up now since what is therein the EVPN =
specification that states &#8220;do proxy arp&#8221; does not cover what =
thatmeans.&nbsp; We need to have more detailswritten down for the EVPN =
proxy arp.&nbsp; Icommend you for starting to write down these details. =
One of these details thatI am concerned about is that you need to add =
this flags to the NA.&nbsp; This is telling me that the host is =
usingsome additional options in the hosts&#8217; NA. We already have =
some that are notwidely deployed for doing security in neighbor =
discovery.&nbsp; There could be additional flags that could bedefined in =
the future.&nbsp; I wonder in thisproxy approach is a good approach and =
if it is necessary.&nbsp; Clearly you want to avoid flooding the stuffto =
all the NVE.&nbsp; You could also use theinformation received from NVE =
to indicate which NVE this host is behind. TheARP&#x2F;ND packet could =
be unicast to the NVE. I will get the whole packettraveling end-to-end. =
By sending the ARP&#x2F;ND end-to-end, the flags and otheroptions will =
travel end-to-end. You still want the mechanism to able tosuppress these =
things (MAC packets during ARP&#x2F;NA attacks) in the case you knowall =
the mac and IP addresses in the network &#8211; you can drop these =
things non thefloor.&nbsp; This WG needs this document towork through =
the details on gratuitous ARP, unsolicited NAs, and other issuesto make =
sure these things work as intended.&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge: Thank you for =
thecomments, and I am very interested. I would like to obtain more =
informationoffline.&nbsp;</li><li>Robert Raszuk: This isuseful work not =
only for IXP and for data centers. The proxy ARP is being inproduction =
for EVPN. My question is in the duplicate IP (RFC7094) detection hasa =
valid point, but not for IPv4.&nbsp; What isyour take on =
that?&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge Rabadan (ALU): Weare not looking at anycast at =
IPv4 for IXP.</li><li>Robert Raszuk: For DataCenter, there are =
anycast.&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge Rabadan (ALU): In the Data Center you have =
more than one host using the IP address so duplicateaddresses do not =
matter.&nbsp; You should justturn off the duplicate detection for the =
dasta center.&nbsp; For the anycast IPs, the advertisements aresent with =
the O flag set to zero, this draft recommends not to learn =
thosebindings. These bindings are coming from different hosts so these =
bindings arenot good to learn for the proxy ND function. We are focusing =
on a very specificuse case so (which did not include the data center, so =
the anycast is out ofscope.&nbsp; we did not have the Data Centeruse =
case in mind.&nbsp; We will consider yourinput.&nbsp;</li><li>Pitewan =
Khuzema (?)Infinera]: Thank you for the interesting discussion. Is there =
an impact ifthere is an external loop in the customer network?&nbsp; How =
will this loop work, and will it have aperformance =
impact?&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge Rabadan (ALU): If you have a loop, it should =
be taken care of EVPN Mac Duplication. You will getthe same MAC in =
different PEs in EVPN mesh. EVPN already has a mechanism totake of =
it.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Himanshu Shah (Ciena):&nbsp; Whatis the IP-MAC =
address binding in the ARP&#x2F;NA?&nbsp; Have you read RFC6575 &#8211; =
ARP mediation and RFC 7436 &#8211; IPLS.&nbsp; Both these RFCs do IP =
to&#x2F;from MAC learning atingress PE and notify the binding to remote =
PEs for proxy functions.&nbsp; Have you looked at these =
drafts?&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge Rabadan [ALU]: Which draft for ARP =
Mediation?</li><li>Himanshu Shah (Ciena): It was part of the EVPNwork, =
and some of the Alcatel-Lucent folks contributed to this draft.&nbsp; =
You should take a look at these RFCS to learnhow the ARP mediation does =
MAC-IP binding across the MPLS network.&nbsp; There is inconsistency =
with this draft.&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge: I&#8217;ve not looked at this =
work.&nbsp;</li><li>Himanshu Shah: You mentioned you looked at other =
works, but you did not look at thisone?&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge:&nbsp; Not =
for a long time.&nbsp;</li><li>Himanshu: These were part of the =
techniques fromthe l2VPN Working group, and those are =
RFCs.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Ali Sajassi(Cisco): With regards to the =
anycast issue, it can be alleviated if we use IRB. The anycastaddress is =
the address of the gateways (IRBs). The ARP response is done locallyby =
each distributed gateway. The IRB if you take it into consideration, =
cantake care of it.&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge (ALU): Thank =
you.&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas: Who has readthis document?</li><li>[hands: =
15&nbsp;</li></ul>&nbsp;<br>Note: comments from TonyPrzygienda from the =
mail list:<br>&nbsp;<br><ul class=3D"bullet"><li>Watching the =
presentation in the group and insteadcrowding the mike here are my =
comments</li><ul class=3D"bullet"><li>a)It is worth explaining what =
flavor of ARP proxy eVPN implements. &#8216;proxy ARP&#8217; Ifound out =
has different flavors including e.g. the router responding with itsown =
MAC to requests representing remote hosts. Customers &amp; other folks =
areeasily confused by the overloaded &#8216;proxy ARP&#8217; term in =
eVPN context.&nbsp;</li><li>b) It is worth explaining what is suggested =
behavior if eVPN advertises the same IPwith multiple MACs and what =
happens when e.g. the served MAC vanishes</li><li>c) It is worth =
explaining what the suggested behavior should be when =
&#8216;local-bit&#8217; MACsare being advertised from remotes (and when =
those collide)&nbsp;</li><li>d) eVPN draft does not explain anything =
about possibility to snoop @ DHCP&nbsp;</li><li>e) The IP duplicate =
detection is an interesting thing given the anycast&#x2F;multicast =
andother zoo&nbsp;</li></ul></ul>&nbsp;<br>10) =
draft-mohanty-bess-evpn-df-election [JacobHutz (sp?) (Cisco) Satya M., =
15 min]<br>&nbsp;<br>Time: 1:36 to 1:46&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>What: BUM =
traffic should be send by 1 PE and notmultiple. Electing the PE as =
forwarder must handle all potential changes.&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>Problem: =
Mod function (V mod N for tag&#x2F;IP)changeswith the number of =
PEs.&nbsp;<br>Solution: Use a hash function to aid election sothe PE =
with the largest hash remains the designated forwarder. Second =
largesthash is back-up forwarder.&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https&#x3a;&#x2F;&#x2F;tools&#x2e;ietf&#x2e;org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;=
92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides&#x2d;92&#x2d;bess&#x2d;12&#x2e;pdf">https:&#x2=
F;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides-92-bes=
s-12.pdf</a><br>&nbsp;<br><strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong><br><s=
trong>&nbsp;Discussion:&nbsp;</strong><br><ul class=3D"bullet"><li>Ali =
Sajassi: What areyou using instead of VLAN.&nbsp;</li><li>Jacob: It =
takes a CRC-32of the VLAN in the XOR function. The VLAN address is =
32-bit so it is not necessaryto take the CRC-32 of that number.&nbsp; =
TheIP address could be 4 byte or 16 byte. The IP address makes a =
difference due tothe vertical on the column.&nbsp;</li><li>Ali: Does it =
make adifference what 32 bit Ethernet type is?&nbsp;</li><li>Jacob: It =
does reallymatter whether you take the CRC-32 over it or not. If you =
have a really simplefunction, you could just add the hash values up =
instead of doing this. This hasfunction spreads out the =
usages.&nbsp;</li><li>Ali: I just wanted tomake sure you are not using =
something else instead of the ether tag as part ofthe =
equation.&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas: Who has read thedocument</li><li>[10+ =
hands]</li><li>Thomas: Amonst those,who thinks this is valid =
work?&nbsp;</li><li>[5+ hands]&nbsp;</li></ul>&nbsp;<br><br>11) =
draft-hao-bess-evpn-df-handshaking =
(WeiquoHao)&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Time: 1:47&#8211; =
2:10&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>Problem: DF election during changes in =
network<br>Solution: Use a capability flag in ES route + DFEC (add =
capability flag) to aid handshaking to confirm DF flag =
input.&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br><a =
href=3D"https&#x3a;&#x2F;&#x2F;tools&#x2e;ietf&#x2e;org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;=
92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides&#x2d;92&#x2d;bess&#x2d;1&#x2e;pdf">https:&#x2F=
;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides-92-bess=
-1.pdf</a><br>&nbsp;<br>Discussion:&nbsp;<br><ul =
class=3D"bullet"><li>Ali: Please go to the figure (slide 3).&nbsp; Can =
you tell me whereyou end up with a loop in the DF election&gt;? Can you =
show this on slide? Inthe draft, you indicate RFC7342 has a loop due to =
timer and packet duplication formulticast packets. =
Duplication&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Weiquo: DF forwarding RFC7342 has =
duplication and packet loss.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Ali: In RFC7472 you =
have timers so that it would be difficult to have =
loops.&nbsp;</li><li>Weiquo: It is not to solve loop and duplication, =
but the &#8230; (interrupted end of =
sentence)&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas: Can we move this to the list? It =
is better to quote the draft on the list.&nbsp;</li><li>Ali: The single =
activewas not there in the original draft. We had a draft several years =
ago (3 yearsago) to do the handshaking based on a &#8220;Paxis&#8221; =
algorithm to avoid any transientdisruptions.&nbsp; Because of two =
things, wedid see a demand for this draft.&nbsp;</li><li>Weiquo: I have =
not seen this discussion before.&nbsp;</li><li>Ali: If you search for =
EVPN segment route (2011), you will see this =
discussion.&nbsp;</li><li>Weiquo: Traffic disruption is an important =
issue for DCI scenario.&nbsp;</li><li>Ali: Right. What I am saying is =
that was mentioned&#8230; We are talking about the BUMtraffic that was =
covered a few years ago in that draft. Because we didn&#8217;t seethe =
demand, we did not go forward with the draft.&nbsp; It had the =
handshaking, sequence number, andthe algorithm was based on the =
&#8220;Paxis&#8221; (spelling) algorithm. If you search, itis =
expired.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas: Please give thedraft reference =
number on the list, and continue discussion =
there.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Ali: Sure.</li><li>Jorge Rabadan (ALU): We =
discussed offline on this topic, and I wanted to share with the working =
group. Basically I believe it is valid work, but not for avoiding =
loops.&nbsp; It avoids duplicate packets where you have transitstate =
where you have a dual DF scenario in the network. This draft =
useshandshaking instead of the timer.&nbsp; In myopinion, it is too =
complicated and slows down the DF election process.&nbsp; The reason is =
slows down is that you mustrely both on a timer and the DF handshake =
before the traffic is forwarded. Besidesthe extended community sub-type =
3 is already allocated by IANA.&nbsp; You should remove this from your =
draft. Youmention for PBB EVPN you should use the ES route instead of =
the AD route.&nbsp;</li><li>Weiguo Hao: For the PBBEVPN, there is no =
added route.&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge Rabadan (ALU): I agree but there =
Ethernet segment for the ESI.&nbsp; You cannot send the indication with =
the AS route because it is sent to all the ESIs. It doesn&#8217;t =
work.&nbsp;</li><li>Weiquo Hao: What =
doesn&#8217;twork?&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge Rabadan (ALU): Youhave thousands =
of ESI in the DC.&nbsp; You endup with a single DF per EVI. If you send =
the DF indication with the ESI route,then it is not valid. Unless the PE =
is a DF and every single for every single ISID or EVI in the =
___.&nbsp;</li><li>[voice too faint tohear]&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>&nbsp; =
Ali Sajassi (Cisco): If you want to go that direction, this was answered =
in the other draft Imentioned.&nbsp; The information sent allowseveryone =
to have the same information of the pair service-instance =
information.&nbsp; Once everybody made sure they had the same =
information, the handshake isperformed to determine that everyone is on =
the same page with respect to the information.&nbsp; So if you take a =
look at the other draft, this draft should address your =
concern.&nbsp;</li><li>[interruption from Ali Sajassi]: One other thing, =
the duplication is na&#239;ve. It is not going to cause anetwork =
meltdown. The loop is the one that causes the network meltdown, and =
wemade sure in the EVPN draft there is no loop.&nbsp;</li><li>Weiquo: I =
have a reply to Jorge&#8217;s comments. Jorge states that handshaking is =
very complicated compared with the current mechanism of many independent =
timers which expire independently. There is a price in the handling of =
the firing timers.&nbsp; I think the handshaking is better due to its =
deterministic form. If you want to avoid the short-term transition =
problem, the hand-shake will provide the information. It is a trade-off =
between avoiding the transient disruption of data andthe extra mechanism =
for the handshaking protocol. If transient disruptionproblem causes a =
big problem, then the handshaking mechanism must be used. Even if it is =
very short.&nbsp;</li><li>Ali: A couple ofcomments &#8211; the traffic =
you mention is BUM traffic.&nbsp; For the BUM traffic, the problem =
occurs whenyou have a new node.&nbsp; It does not occurwhen you have a =
failure.&nbsp;</li><li>Weiquo: I think my ideais less complicated than =
the current</li><li>Weiquo: I think the handshaking is better due to its =
deterministic form. If you want to avoid theshort-term transition =
problem, the hand-shake will provide the information.&nbsp;</li><li>Ali: =
The issue you are mentioning is the BUM traffic.&nbsp; The failure for =
the operation does not apply to the non-BUM traffic. The failure does =
notcause a disruption. The DF election is very =
quick.&nbsp;</li><li>Weiquo: However, you are describing the =
single-homed solution. For the active-active (multi-homed), the =
disruption is caused to both the BUM and the unicast =
traffic.&nbsp;</li><li>Ali: For a short duration, the disruption occurs =
when the node comes up. I wonder if it would begood to get some feedback =
on the service provider or some people who are deployingEVPN to =
determine if we need to address this concern and the overhead for =
theadditional handshaking mechanism to compensate for the BUM =
traffic.&nbsp;</li><li>Weiquo: I think theservice provider =
&#8230;&nbsp;</li><li>[interruption] Thomas Morin: Patrice has been =
waiting for a long time.&nbsp;</li><li>Patrice XXX(Cisco): Iwant to =
underline what Ali suggested that to review the PAXIS (spelling?) since =
what you are proposing is what the PAXIS algorithm does. Why the segment =
routedraft did fly was due to the complexity of the proposed solution =
that Jorgementioned. I did not see in your draft the failure =
scenario.&nbsp; You only explained how the failure scenario works in the =
presentation.&nbsp; If you think your idea is good, I want to see ideas =
on how this solution resolves thefailure situation and provides a =
recovery. I think the HRW is better.&nbsp;</li><li>Weiquo: My solution =
is alittle complicated.&nbsp;</li><li>Martin: We seen somedrafts around =
DF election within the group. We understand that many of these drafts =
address different solution andare not competing.&nbsp; We want to see =
consistency across these solution so that the solutions do not conflict =
acrossthe different documents. We will take some actions and then reach =
out to different authors so we have a future proof =
solution.&nbsp;</li></ul>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;<br><br>12) draft-tsingh-bess-pbb-evpn-yang-cfg =
(KishoreTiruveedhula)<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Time: 2:10&#8211; =
2:23<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https&#x3a;&#x2F;&#x2F;tools&#x2e;ietf&#x2e;org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;=
92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides&#x2d;92&#x2d;bess&#x2d;10&#x2e;pdf">https:&#x2=
F;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides-92-bes=
s-10.pdf</a><br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp; Purpose: PBB EVPN Yang model with =
B-component,I-component, BMAC, and interface =
configuration.<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;Solution: Only configuration.&nbsp; =
Next Drafts will add operational state =
andRPC.&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>Discussion:&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br><ul =
class=3D"bullet"><li>Robin Li (Huawei): We proposed a similar EVPN yang =
model in the last meeting. We could have adiscussion off line.&nbsp; The =
EVPN and PPB EVPN have a great deal of similarity. This combination will =
be useful to finish thework for the EVPN (normal and PBB =
EVPN).&nbsp;</li><li>Kishore: In the EVPN, you will not have I-component =
and B-component. There is some difference betweenthe I-component and =
B-component. There are some differences, but I think we can put the =
common stuff in one place. We can talk offline.&nbsp;</li><li>Robin: In =
our yang model draft, we proposed another change for the BGP =
configuration addition because the traditional configuration of the BGP =
is a little complex in the data center.In the data center, the user has =
simpler configurations.&nbsp; We think the yang model should provide =
anability to simplify the BGP for the data center =
case.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Kishore: The common BGP configuration =
for EVPN would also be a good topic to discuss.&nbsp; We should provide =
a means for the EVPN to provide common data in one =
place.&nbsp;</li><li>Himanshu Shah: You havea design team for L2VPN for =
all aspects of the yang module definition. This includes LDP based, BGP =
based, and other aspects.&nbsp; We should take a holistic view that =
tries tofacilitate both BGP and other things. Otherwise, it will be =
fragmented. To keep it coordinated, we should have a single =
effort.&nbsp;</li><li>Stephane Litowski (Orange): I have a similar =
comment.&nbsp; We are just starting to talk about the global =
architecture of the global Yang modules.&nbsp; There is need for =
consolidationbetween the different services which are based on BGP =
control plane [which includes] the L2VPN, L3VPN, EVPN and other =
information. It is a global thinking.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas: A =
proposal for an EPVN yang module needs to fit precisely for the EVPN =
effort alone. It is hardto move forward without&nbsp;</li><li>Keyur: =
Four comments:&nbsp;</li><ul class=3D"bullet"><li>1st: I want to echo =
the need to fit this in the global architecture.&nbsp;</li><li>2nd: It =
will be interesting to have a section in the draft that indicates where =
your modelwould fit into the routing model. I cannot figure this out, =
and I cannot see agood way to put this into the over-all routing =
model.</li><li>3rd: The model is very vendor specific.&nbsp; It wouldbe =
good to see how you consolidate this model and normalize it across =
theboard.&nbsp;</li><li>4th: The way the model has been defined the =
&#8220;GET&#8221; Configs and &#8220;DELETE&#8221; configs will be very =
hard to do. It is a complex XPATH so you want to find how to normalize =
thispath.&nbsp;</li></ul><li>Ali: This is a pretty good basis, but it =
needs to be consolidated with the BGP, L2VPN, and L3VPN. In terms of =
capturing the config for PBB EVPN, I think you did a good job of =
capturing this EVPN.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Sue: Keyur was your first point =
that it does not match any of the BGP models.&nbsp; I do not see how it =
fits with the existing proposals for BGP models. Please add more detail =
to show how it attaches to the BGP models.&nbsp;</li><li>Keyur: I asked =
how it fits in the global yang architecture.&nbsp;</li><li>Sue: I do not =
see how it fits into the BGP models proposed.&nbsp; Please add detail to =
show this works with BGP. Provide us information so we might collaborate =
with the upcoming dynamic state that is coming up (I2RS). Are you =
working based on the OpenConfig model? How are approaching dynamic =
I2RS?&nbsp; Thereis not a lot of what Himanshu called =
&#8220;holistic&#8221; (I love that phrase).&nbsp; Please provide this =
detail because this workwill be necessary for the EVPNs.</li><li>Ali: =
The first step is to nail the BGP model, the second step is the EVPN, =
and this is the the third description.&nbsp; When do we expect a to see =
a BGP model. You do not need to give along =
description.&nbsp;</li><li>Sue: The walk is longer than the description. =
Two models for BGP (Open Config and the zhdankin draft) hoping to go to =
1 model within a month. Thank you.&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas: Would you =
putthis in the minute? We did not understand =
it.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li></ul>&nbsp;<br>13) =
draft-boutros-bess-evpn-vpws-service-edge-gateway(Patrice Brissette =
(Cisco))&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Time: 2:24&#8211; =
2:33<br>&nbsp;<br><strong>Purpose:</strong> Describes how a service node =
can dynamically terminate EVPN VPWS (Virtual Private Wire Systems) from =
access nodes and provide L2, L3,and Ethernet VPN overlay services to =
customer devices to the access =
nodes.&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>Discussion:&nbsp;<br>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; Discussion:<br><ul class=3D"bullet"><li>Jorge Rabadan =
(ALU): Ihave two questions.&nbsp; This is a very goodidea. The main =
benefit is that you do not need to configure any attachment onthe =
service nodes. It gets attached to a MAC VRF or a IP VRF.&nbsp; What =
does the VPN overlay mean in thiscontext?&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Patrice B. =
(Cisco):Exactly.&nbsp;</li><li>[unknown]: This is MACVRF in the service =
nodes.&nbsp;</li><li>Ali Sajassi (Cisco): The only thing is the service =
node (rest was too faint due to Ali Sajassi not coming to the =
mike).&nbsp;</li><li>Ali Sajassi (Cisco): For the EVPN, you can set up a =
single ESI, and in that EVI you can set up many-many point-to-point =
connections. In the service EVI, you can set up just one EVI. And then =
you can set up all the point-to-point connections through that EVI. This =
mechanism is already in the EVPN. This draft leverages what is already =
defined there.&nbsp; It says the&#8230; the only new things in here is =
the concept of the wildcard. The service node does not know ahead of =
time what is the attachment of the attachment ID.&nbsp; I am &#8230; I =
am for distributing that EVI.&nbsp; If you guys want to have a =
point-to-point connection then you can pick any of the service =
nodes.&nbsp;</li><li>[unknown, no name stated]: It is a EVPN Core or PBB =
EVPN core. And in the access, you can provide the =
access.&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge Rabadan (ALU): The multi-homing in the draft =
is extremely confusing. I do not even understand where the ESI is =
located in this draft.&nbsp;</li><li>Patrice Bissette(Cisco): Ok, =
we&#8217;ll clarify this point.&nbsp;</li><li>Jorge Rabadan (ALU): Do =
you discover this for the routes. I think what is confusing in the draft =
is that you can dual home on the access, but you cannot have a dual home =
on theservice nodes.&nbsp;</li><li>Patrice Bissette (Cisco): We need to =
clarify this point.&nbsp;</li><li>Patithewan Khuzema(Infinera): A quick =
question is that you can use the same EVPN structure to dopoint-to-point =
and multi-point services. Solutions for these services do existtoday. =
Why do you want to propose this interoperable =
solution?&nbsp;</li><li>Patrice Bissette(Cisco): We want to propose this =
solution to allow for the auto-configuration of the service from the =
access node. This is what we are proposing for =
thispoint.&nbsp;</li><li>Patithewan Khuzema(infinera): If you add a new =
access node on the network, you will need to configure[some of this =
information.&nbsp;</li><li>Patrice Bissette(Cisco): Maybe we can take =
this offline.&nbsp;</li><li>Patihewan Khuzema(infinera): I do not =
understand the dual homing algorithm.&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas: Please move =
this to the =
list.&nbsp;</li></ul>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;14) =
draft-abhattacharya-bess-l2vpn-ipv6-remotepe<u> (Mohamed =
Boucadair)</u><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mohamed B., 5 =
min<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Time: =
2:33-2:35&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https&#x3a;&#x2F;&#x2F;tools&#x2e;ietf&#x2e;org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;=
92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides&#x2d;92&#x2d;bess&#x2d;2&#x2e;pdf">https:&#x2F=
;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides-92-bess=
-2.pdf</a><br>&nbsp;<br><strong>Purpose: </strong>Update RFC6074gap for =
IPv6-only operation for discovery procedures when encoding PE =
IPAddresses in Virtual Instance ID (VSI-ID). Due to 32 bit limit, IPv6 =
addresses cannot be =
included&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br><strong>Solution:</strong> RFC6074: 2 =
updatesto RFC 6074&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>Discussion:&nbsp;<br><ul =
class=3D"bullet"><li>Thomas: Comments?&nbsp;</li><li>Martin: Who has =
read thedocument?&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>Thomas: I encourage documents on =
the =
list.&nbsp;</li></ul><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;16) =
draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lucy Y., 10 =
min&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 Time: =
2:36&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https&#x3a;&#x2F;&#x2F;tools&#x2e;ietf&#x2e;org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;=
92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides&#x2d;92&#x2d;bess&#x2d;0&#x2e;pdf">https:&#x2F=
;&#x2F;tools.ietf.org&#x2F;agenda&#x2F;92&#x2F;slides&#x2F;slides-92-bess=
-0.pdf</a><br>&nbsp;<br>&#183; Thomas: You have 7 =
minutes.&nbsp;<br>&#183; Lucy: Typically lady goes first, today the lady =
goes =
last.&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br><strong>Discussion:&nbsp;</strong><br>o&nbsp;&nb=
sp; [Thomas] at 5 minutes: You have two minutes, we need to conclude for =
the solution.&nbsp;<br>o&nbsp;&nbsp; Lucy: We request WG =
adoption.<br>o&nbsp;&nbsp; Robert: Why are you not considering to build =
IP underlay which everyone is using and it workswell.&nbsp; It scales =
well. And use option Cto connect inter-AS work.&nbsp;<br>o&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Lucy: Good question.&nbsp; We do have a separate draft on Option =
C.&nbsp; This draft just talks about option B. We have another draft =
that talks about option C.&nbsp;<br>o&nbsp;&nbsp; Robert Raszuk: Is it =
an IP underlay for option C?&nbsp;<br>o&nbsp;&nbsp; Lucy: It is an IP =
underlay.&nbsp;<br>o&nbsp;&nbsp; Martin: Thank you very much, we are =
closing.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br><br></body>=0A=
</html>=0A=

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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
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Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 17:35:48 -0400
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Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" <aretana@cisco.com>, 'Alia Atlas' <akatlas@gmail.com>
Subject: [bess] BGP yang modules
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Thomas and Martin requested information the status of the base BGP draft.
The BGP base yang modules are: 

 

 <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model/>
draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-01 (OpenConfig Draft) 

 <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg/>
draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00  (Cisco and other vendors draft) 

 

The authors of these two models are working on collaborating toward a merge
in April.  The April 27 IDR interim will provide this final merge. 

 

These drafts are linked to the policy discussions in the rtgwg for the
following drafts: 

 

 <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model/>
draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00  (openConfig draft) 

 <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yan-rtgwg-routing-policy-yang/>
draft-yan-rtgwg-routing-policy-yang-00 (other policy draft) 

 

Sue  


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Thomas and =
Martin requested information the status of the base BGP draft. The BGP =
base yang modules are: <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model/"><spa=
n =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";background:#ED=
F5FF'>draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-01</span></a> (OpenConfig Draft) =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg/"><spa=
n =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";background:#ED=
F5FF'>draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00</span></a>&nbsp; (Cisco and other =
vendors draft) <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The authors =
of these two models are working on collaborating toward a merge in =
April. &nbsp;The April 27 IDR interim will provide this final merge. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>These drafts are linked to the policy discussions in =
the rtgwg for the following drafts: <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model/"=
><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";background:#ED=
F5FF'>draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00</span></a>&nbsp; (openConfig =
draft) <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yan-rtgwg-routing-policy-ya=
ng/"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";background:whi=
te'>draft-yan-rtgwg-routing-policy-yang-00</span></a> (other policy =
draft) <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sue &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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Thread-Topic: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm
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It seems like this is a solution looking for a problem. The draft is writte=
n for all-active redundancy mode and it talks about loop scenarios in figur=
e-1. During the BESS session, I went to the microphone and stated that ther=
e can NOT be a loop for figure-1 because of SH label for both All-Active an=
d Single-Active redundancy mode. It seems like after a long email thread, i=
t is concluded that there is no loop during a transient state for a Etherne=
t Segment operating in either All-Active or Single-Active redundancy mode.

In order to prevent loop, RFC 7432 has triple mechanism:

1) It requires a PE to start a timer upon Ethernet Segment auto-discovery a=
nd ES route advertisements, to ensure that other PEs have the same view of =
the redundancy group =96i.e., how many PEs participating in a given ES and =
thus be able to perform DF election with the right info. This procedure is =
described in section 8.5 of the draft. So, I don=92t see how we can have a =
transient loop when a PE discovers a new ES. Also, with HRW algorithm, I do=
n=92t see how we can have a transient loop during a failure either.

2) EVPN uses SH label to prevent a packet coming from an ES to be sent to t=
he same ES.

3) In case of mis-configuration and backdoor connections among customer sit=
es (which may be only single-homed), the RFC describes how to catch such sc=
enarios. These scenarios goes beyond multi-homing!!

So in summary, there is a consensus that there is no loop for the described=
 scenario and if there was a loop for a TBD scenario, the above triple mech=
anism can handle it well.

Cheers,
Ali

From: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com<mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com>>
Date: Monday, April 6, 2015 at 7:03 PM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>, "Patrice =
Brissette (pbrisset)" <pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>>
Cc: Cisco Employee <sajassi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, "bess@iet=
f.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>" <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Hi John,

Your summary is good. Pls see my further reply inline with [weiguo].

Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>]
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 21:38
To: Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm

Weiguo,

I have been marginally paying attention to this email thread and I thought =
I should update the points we have established.  In addition to the points =
listed in my email, below, I think we have established that;

1)  Your proposal is even more broken than I I previously indicated because=
 you have no way to identify to which EVI your DF election handshake applie=
s
[weiguo]: Firstly we had better reach consensus on the problem(Loop and MAC=
 flip-flop in transient peirod for MHN) that we are trying to resolve, then=
 we can search for the suitable solution. The current proposed solution is =
to use A-D route for handshaking, the A-D route can identify EVI.
2)  Your DF election handshake only applies to single-active MHN, if it app=
lies at all.
[weiguo]: Yes, currently our DF election handshake can be used to avoid loo=
p and mac flip-flop for single-active MHN in transiet state. For MHD, if CE=
 receives BUM traffic from PE1, the CE won't send the traffic back to anoth=
er multi-homed PE2, so the loop won't be formed.
3)  Your DF election handshake creates a window in which no PE is the DF wh=
ich leads to the black-holing of traffic.
[weiguo]:The window is  BGP message transmission timer, all handshake mecha=
nism has this issue and i think it is more acceptable than loop and mac fli=
p-flop.
4)  Because the EVPN routes are not time-stamped, you entire discussion of =
NTP and PTP is completely irrelevant.
[weiguo]: OK.
Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: John E Drake
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:00 PM
To: 'Haoweiguo'; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm

To recap,

We have established that your proposal is untenable because of its control =
plane load.

We have established that your proposal is based upon a flawed understanding=
 of the DF election in RFC 7432.

What you are now arguing is that your draft prevents two or more PEs from b=
eing DF simultaneously.  This is clearly nonsense.

Furthermore, we have established that having two or more DFs for what even =
you admit is a brief transient leads to duplicate traffic, which is accepta=
ble, but not loops, your assertion to the contrary.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: Haoweiguo [mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 5:37 PM
To: John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


John,

As your understanding of the EVPN draft, the DF election mechanism has more=
 serious side effect, it will have short time traffic loop,i.e., dual DF PE=
s will exist for a short time. I think dual DF PEs is absolutely not tolera=
ted, because native ethernet header has no TTL, up to several hundred ms tr=
affic loop normally not tolerated in commertial networks.



As your understanding, the PEs should do as following:

1. Accurate timer sync. NTP accuracy is bad, 1588v2 is good but have rarely=
 deployment.

Assuming PE1,PE2 and PE3 have consistent timer clock, when PE3 joins ESI an=
d trigger DF re-election. When reception timer expires:

PE1 upgrades to DF PE.

After reception timer+ ES route transmission timer:

PE2 downloads to non-DF PE.

So in timer clock sync case, dual DF PEs will exist at least transmission t=
imer.



If NTP is used for timer sync, because it has bad accuracy, dual DF PEs wil=
l exist more longer timer.



So as your understanding for DF election, the drawback is more clear.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 4:41
To: Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
Weiguo,

We have already established that your proposal is untenable because of its =
control plane load.

What we are now discussing is that your proposal is based upon a misunderst=
anding of the algorithm in RFC 7432.  You are assuming that PE1 will advert=
ise an ES route and then wait for the configured interval before performing=
 the DF election while PE2 and PE3 will perform the DF election as soon as =
they receive the ES route from PE1.  This is not what RFC 7432 says.

Rather, what is says is that the advertisement of the ES route by PE1 and i=
ts receipt by PE2 and PE3 causes all three PEs to start the configured inte=
rval timer  - =933. When the timer expires, each PE builds an ordered list =
of the IP addresses of all the PE nodes connected to the Ethernet segment (=
including itself), in increasing numeric value.=94

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: Haoweiguo [mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 3:26 PM
To: John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Pls read my detail replies to Satya. If you still can't catch it, pls read =
my draft and EVPN base protocol,  thanks

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 1:28
To: Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)
Cc: Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
I think Patrice is correct.  Your proposal doesn't solve the problem and it=
 does so at huge cost.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 26, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Patrice Brissette (pbrisset) <pbrisset@cisco.=
com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>> wrote:
Weiguo,

I=92m not sure I=92m following here.
Don=92t you have the same issue with your handshaking mechanism?
If you don=92t know your peer, how can you handshake?


Regards,

Patrice
   [Image removed by sender.]


Patrice Brissette
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING

pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>
Phone: +1 613 254 3336


Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco Canada CIE
Canada
Cisco.com<http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/>



[Image removed by sender.]Think before you print.


This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole us=
e of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by=
 others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or a=
uthorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply=
 email and delete all copies of this message.

Please click here<http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/i=
ndex.html> for Company Registration Information.




From: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com<mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com>>
Date: Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 10:24 AM
To: Patrice Brissette <pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>>, John=
 E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>, Ali Sajassi <saja=
ssi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, "bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.o=
rg>" <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Hi Patrice,

Up to reception timer traffic disruption in transient phase is one of the i=
ssues.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: Patrice Brissette (pbrisset) [pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisc=
o.com>]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 20:54
To: Haoweiguo; John E Drake; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:be=
ss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
Weiguo,

You mention "But if your draft have not solved all issues=94,
Can you explain what Satya=92s draft is not solving?


Regards,

Patrice
   [Image removed by sender.]


Patrice Brissette
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING

pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>
Phone: +1 613 254 3336


Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco Canada CIE
Canada
Cisco.com<http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/>



[Image removed by sender.]Think before you print.


This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole us=
e of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by=
 others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or a=
uthorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply=
 email and delete all copies of this message.

Please click here<http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/i=
ndex.html> for Company Registration Information.




From: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com<mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com>>
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 10:38 PM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>, Ali Sajas=
si <sajassi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, "bess@ietf.org<mailto:bes=
s@ietf.org>" <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Hi John,

 Firstly i think EVPN community should reach consensus on the issues of cur=
rent DF election mechanism. All these issues should be resolved in a single=
 new DF election draft,rather than in multiple separate drafts. If your dra=
ft can solve all these issues and stable, i have no question for its progre=
ssing. But if your draft have not solved all issues, i think it had better =
combine with other drafts to provide a comprehensive solution. I think the =
issues listed in draft-rabadan-bess-evpn-ac-df-01 and draft-hao-bess-evpn-d=
f-handshaking-00 is valid, it should be resolved. So i think although your =
new Hash algorithm for DF election is good, it only includes partial enhanc=
ements, maybe it still needs some time for consensus.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:16
To: Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm
Weiguo,

Your proposal introduces a control plane processing load that is O(#EVIs * =
PEs) per DF election and given that there can be 4K EVIs per ES, this looks=
 like a *substantial* load.  Furthermore,
you can=92t  use the ES route to co-ordinate DF election because you would =
need to carry your new extended community for each EVI and they would not a=
ll fit.  You also can=92t use the Per EVI Ethernet AD route because that is=
 processed by all PEs in the EVI.

I think that from a practical perspective the new DF election proposed in S=
atya=92s draft is sufficiently stable that it renders your draft moot, even=
 if it could be made to work.
Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:34 PM
To: Ali Sajassi (sajassi); bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algo=
rithm


Hi Ali,

Thanks for your information. I scanned through this draft, it really introd=
uces inter-chassis message for DF election handshaking, the requirements in=
 this draft is to eliminate transiet Loop and traffic duplication. Current =
EVPN DF election mechanism already eliminated loop and traffic duplication =
by configuring long reception timer on each multi-homed PE, but up to recep=
tion timer traffic disruption issue still exist. EVPN for DCI is an importa=
nt use case for EVPN, up to reception timer traffic disruption can't be tol=
erated for service providers, it should be improved.

Also for accuracy, i think handshaking state machine on each multi-homed PE=
 is also needed. From solution perspective, in my draft, no inter-chassis m=
essage is introduced, only one new extended community is introduced, i thin=
k the process is comparatively simple than your following draft.



Current EVPN DF election has some drawbacks, so there are three new drafts =
about DF election emerged. I think BESS WG can consider these three drafts =
in global view,  a single,comprehensive new DF election draft is hoped.



thanks.



Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: BESS [bess-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org>] on behalf =
of Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [sajassi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 0:21
To: bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorith=
m

FYI- First published July 4, 2011

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-segment-route/


-Ali

--_000_D14B020113028Esajassiciscocom_
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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>It seems like this is a solution looking for a problem. The draft is w=
ritten for all-active redundancy mode and it talks about loop scenarios in =
figure-1. During the BESS session, I went to the microphone and stated that=
 there can NOT be a loop for figure-1
 because of SH label for both All-Active and Single-Active redundancy mode.=
 It seems like after a long email thread, it is concluded that there is no =
loop during a transient state for a Ethernet Segment operating in either Al=
l-Active or Single-Active redundancy
 mode.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In order to prevent loop, RFC 7432 has triple mechanism:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) It requires a PE to start a timer upon Ethernet Segment auto-discov=
ery and ES route advertisements, to ensure that other PEs have the same vie=
w of the redundancy group =96i.e., how many PEs participating in a given ES=
 and thus be able to perform DF election
 with the right info. This procedure is described in section 8.5 of the dra=
ft. So, I don=92t see how we can have a transient loop when a PE discovers =
a new ES. Also, with HRW algorithm, I don=92t see how we can have a transie=
nt loop during a failure either.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2) EVPN uses SH label to prevent a packet coming from an ES to be sent=
 to the same ES.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3) In case of mis-configuration and backdoor connections among custome=
r sites (which may be only single-homed), the RFC describes how to catch su=
ch scenarios. These scenarios goes beyond multi-homing!!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So in summary, there is a consensus that there is no loop for the desc=
ribed scenario and if there was a loop for a TBD scenario, the above triple=
 mechanism can handle it well.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Ali&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Lucida Grande; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; c=
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OTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt =
solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Haoweiguo &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:haoweiguo@huawei.com">haoweiguo@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, April 6, 2015 at 7:03=
 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;, &quot;Patrice Brissette=
 (pbrisset)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com">pbrisset@cisco.=
com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Cisco Employee &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto=
:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org=
">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [bess] Handshaking amo=
ng PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos algorithm<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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10pt;">
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Hi John,</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Your summary is good. Pls see my furth=
er reply inline with [weiguo].</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Thanks,</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">weiguo</font></p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF304235"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> John E Drake [<a href=3D"mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 03, 2015 21:38<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Weiguo,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">I have been marginally paying atten=
tion to this email thread and I thought I should update the points we have =
established.&nbsp; In addition to the points
 listed in my email, below, I think we have established that;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">1)&nbsp; Your proposal is even more=
 broken than I I previously indicated because you have no way to identify t=
o which EVI your DF election handshake applies</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">[weiguo]: Firstly we had better rea=
ch consensus on the problem(Loop and MAC flip-flop in transient peirod for =
MHN) that we are trying to resolve,
 then we can search for the suitable solution. The current proposed solutio=
n is to use A-D route for handshaking, the A-D route can identify EVI.</spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">2)&nbsp; Your DF election handshake=
 only applies to single-active MHN, if it applies at all.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">[weiguo]: Yes, currently our DF ele=
ction handshake can be used to avoid loop and mac flip-flop for single-acti=
ve MHN in transiet state. For MHD, if
 CE receives BUM traffic from PE1, the CE won't send the traffic back to an=
other multi-homed PE2, so the loop won't be formed.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">3)&nbsp; Your DF election handshake=
 creates a window in which no PE is the DF which leads to the black-holing =
of traffic.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">[weiguo]:The window is&nbsp; BGP me=
ssage transmission timer, all handshake mechanism has this issue and i thin=
k it is more acceptable than loop and mac
 flip-flop.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">4)&nbsp; Because the EVPN routes ar=
e not time-stamped, you entire discussion of NTP and PTP is completely irre=
levant.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">[weiguo]: OK.
</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Yours Irrespectively,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">John</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 11pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans=
-serif; font-size: 11pt;"> John E Drake
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Haoweiguo'; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">To recap,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">We have established that your propo=
sal is untenable because of its control plane load.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">We have established that your propo=
sal is based upon a flawed understanding of the DF election in RFC 7432.</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">What you are now arguing is that yo=
ur draft prevents two or more PEs from being DF simultaneously.&nbsp; This =
is clearly nonsense.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Furthermore, we have established th=
at having two or more DFs for what even you admit is a brief transient lead=
s to duplicate traffic, which is acceptable,
 but not loops, your assertion to the contrary.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Yours Irrespectively,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">John</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 11pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans=
-serif; font-size: 11pt;"> Haoweiguo [<a href=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 5:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">John,</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size=
: 10pt;"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">As your =
understanding of the EVPN draft, the DF election mechanism has more serious=
 side effect, it will have short time traffic loop,i.e., dual DF PEs will e=
xist for a short time. I think dual
 DF PEs is absolutely not tolerated, because native ethernet header has no =
TTL, up to several hundred ms traffic loop normally not tolerated in commer=
tial networks.</span><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color:=
 black; font-size: 10pt;"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size:=
 10pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">As your =
understanding, the PEs should do as following:</span><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 10pt;"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">1. Accur=
ate timer sync. NTP accuracy is bad, 1588v2 is good but have rarely deploym=
ent.</span><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; fo=
nt-size: 10pt;"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Assuming=
 PE1,PE2 and PE3 have consistent timer clock, when PE3 joins ESI and trigge=
r DF re-election. When reception timer expires:</span><span style=3D"font-f=
amily: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 10pt;"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">PE1 upgr=
ades to DF PE.</span><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color:=
 black; font-size: 10pt;"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">After re=
ception timer&#43; ES route transmission timer:</span><span style=3D"font-f=
amily: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 10pt;"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">PE2 down=
loads to non-DF PE.</span><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; c=
olor: black; font-size: 10pt;"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">So in ti=
mer clock sync case, dual DF PEs will exist at least transmission timer.</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size=
: 10pt;"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size:=
 10pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">If NTP i=
s used for timer sync, because it has bad accuracy, dual DF PEs will exist =
more longer timer.</span><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; co=
lor: black; font-size: 10pt;"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size:=
 10pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">So as yo=
ur understanding for DF election, the drawback is more clear.</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 10pt;"></=
span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size:=
 10pt;"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Thanks,<=
/span><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-si=
ze: 10pt;"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">weiguo</=
span><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-siz=
e: 10pt;"></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF234411">
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font=
-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></=
b><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: =
10pt;"> John E Drake [<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.=
net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 27, 2015 4:41<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Weiguo,</span><span style=3D"COLOR:=
 black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">We have already established that yo=
ur proposal is untenable because of its control plane load.
</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">What we are now discussing is that =
your proposal is based upon a misunderstanding of the algorithm in RFC 7432=
.&nbsp; You are assuming that PE1 will advertise
 an ES route and then wait for the configured interval before performing th=
e DF election while PE2 and PE3 will perform the DF election as soon as the=
y receive the ES route from PE1.&nbsp; This is not what RFC 7432 says.</spa=
n><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Rather, what is says is that the ad=
vertisement of the ES route by PE1 and its receipt by PE2 and PE3 causes al=
l three PEs to start the configured
 interval timer&nbsp; - =933. When the timer expires, each PE builds an ord=
ered list of the IP addresses of all the PE nodes connected to the Ethernet=
 segment (including itself), in increasing numeric value.=94</span><span st=
yle=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Yours Irrespectively,</span><span s=
tyle=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">John</span><span style=3D"COLOR: bl=
ack"></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
color: black; font-size: 11pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:=
 Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 11pt;"> Haoweiguo [<a href=
=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.=
com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 3:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Pls read=
 my detail replies to Satya. If you still can't catch it, pls read my draft=
 and EVPN base protocol, &nbsp;thanks</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></=
span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">weiguo</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF478649">
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font=
-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></=
b><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: =
10pt;"> John E Drake [<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.=
net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 27, 2015 1:28<br>
<b>To:</b> Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">I think Patrice is corr=
ect. &nbsp;Your proposal doesn't solve the problem and it does so at huge c=
ost.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: =
black"><br>
On Mar 26, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Patrice Brissette (pbrisset) &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:pbrisset@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">pbrisset@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Weiguo,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">I=92m not sure I=92m fo=
llowing here.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Don=92t you have the sa=
me issue with your handshaking mechanism?&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">If you don=92t know you=
r peer, how can you handshake?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Regards,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: =
black">Patrice</span></p>
<table style=3D"WIDTH: 407.25pt" class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cell=
spacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"543">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in">
<table style=3D"WIDTH: 407.25pt" class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cell=
spacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"543">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in" colspan=3D"3">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp;<span style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtex=
t 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDIN=
G-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-R=
IGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in"><img id=3D"_x0000_i1027" bord=
er=3D"0" alt=3D"Image removed by sender." src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01D06DF1.=
76628B60" width=3D"110" height=3D"73"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0.25in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;=
 PADDING-TOP: 0in" valign=3D"top" nowrap=3D"">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 1=
02, 102); font-size: 8.5pt;">Patrice Brissette</span></strong><span style=
=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-size: 8=
.5pt;"><br>
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"COLO=
R: #666666; TEXT-DECORATION: none">pbrisset@cisco.com</span></a><br>
Phone: <strong><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">&#43;1 613 2=
54 3336</span></strong></span></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 15pt; WIDTH: 50%; PADDING=
-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 11.25pt" valign=3D"top" width=3D"50%">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 1=
02, 102); font-size: 8.5pt;">Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco =
Canada CIE</span></strong><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; co=
lor: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-size: 8.5pt;"><br>
Canada<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"COLOR: #666666; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Cisco.com</span></a></span></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in">
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in" colspan=3D"3">
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<table style=3D"WIDTH: 300pt" class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspa=
cing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"400">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0.25in; PADDING-RIGHT: 15pt=
; PADDING-TOP: 3.75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"border: 1pt solid windowtext; padding=
: 0in; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 153, 0); font-size: 7.=
5pt;"><img id=3D"_x0000_i1028" border=3D"0" alt=3D"Image removed by sender.=
" src=3D"cid:image002.jpg@01D06DF1.76628B60" width=3D"100" height=3D"100"><=
/span><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 153, 0);=
 font-size: 7.5pt;">Think
 before you print.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 4.5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.25in; PADDING-RIGHT: 15=
pt; PADDING-TOP: 5.25pt">
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(153, 153, 153)=
; font-size: 7.5pt;">This email may contain confidential and privileged mat=
erial for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribu=
tion or disclosure by others is strictly
 prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receiv=
e for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply email and delete a=
ll copies of this message.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(153, 153, 153)=
; font-size: 7.5pt;">Please
<a title=3D"Legal Information" href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing=
_business/legal/cri/index.html" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"COLOR: #0e58a0">click here</span></a> for Company Registrati=
on Information.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><br clear=3D"all">
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
color: black; font-size: 11pt;">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; f=
ont-size: 11pt;">Haoweiguo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">haoweiguo@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 10:24 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Patrice Brissette &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">pbrisset@cisco.com</a>&gt;, John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;, Ali Saj=
assi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sajassi@cis=
co.com</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>=
&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 4.5pt=
 solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt;=
 PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Hi Patri=
ce,</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Up to re=
ception timer traffic disruption in transient phase is one of the issues.</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Thanks,<=
/span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">weiguo</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF422254">
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font=
-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></=
b><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: =
10pt;"> Patrice Brissette (pbrisset) [<a href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">pbrisset@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 20:54<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; John E Drake; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailt=
o:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: black; font-size: 10.5pt;">Weiguo,</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: black;">You mention &quot;</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black">But if yo=
ur draft have not solved all issues=94,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Can you explain what Sa=
tya=92s draft is not solving?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: black; font-size: 10.5pt;">Regards,</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black">=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 10.5pt;">Patrice</span>=
<span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<table style=3D"WIDTH: 407.25pt" class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cell=
spacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"543">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in">
<table style=3D"WIDTH: 407.25pt" class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cell=
spacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"543">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in" colspan=3D"3">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp;<span style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtex=
t 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDIN=
G-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-R=
IGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in"><img id=3D"_x0000_i1030" bord=
er=3D"0" alt=3D"Image removed by sender." src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01D06DF1.=
76628B60" width=3D"110" height=3D"73"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0.25in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;=
 PADDING-TOP: 0in" valign=3D"top" nowrap=3D"">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 1=
02, 102); font-size: 8.5pt;">Patrice Brissette</span></strong><span style=
=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-size: 8=
.5pt;"><br>
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"COLO=
R: #666666; TEXT-DECORATION: none">pbrisset@cisco.com</span></a><br>
Phone: <strong><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">&#43;1 613 2=
54 3336</span></strong></span></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 15pt; WIDTH: 50%; PADDING=
-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 11.25pt" valign=3D"top" width=3D"50%">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 1=
02, 102); font-size: 8.5pt;">Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco =
Canada CIE</span></strong><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; co=
lor: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-size: 8.5pt;"><br>
Canada<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"COLOR: #666666; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Cisco.com</span></a></span></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in">
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in" colspan=3D"3">
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<table style=3D"WIDTH: 300pt" class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspa=
cing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"400">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0.25in; PADDING-RIGHT: 15pt=
; PADDING-TOP: 3.75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"border: 1pt solid windowtext; padding=
: 0in; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 153, 0); font-size: 7.=
5pt;"><img id=3D"_x0000_i1031" border=3D"0" alt=3D"Image removed by sender.=
" src=3D"cid:image002.jpg@01D06DF1.76628B60" width=3D"100" height=3D"100"><=
/span><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 153, 0);=
 font-size: 7.5pt;">Think
 before you print.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 4.5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.25in; PADDING-RIGHT: 15=
pt; PADDING-TOP: 5.25pt">
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(153, 153, 153)=
; font-size: 7.5pt;">This email may contain confidential and privileged mat=
erial for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribu=
tion or disclosure by others is strictly
 prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receiv=
e for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply email and delete a=
ll copies of this message.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(153, 153, 153)=
; font-size: 7.5pt;">Please
<a title=3D"Legal Information" href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing=
_business/legal/cri/index.html" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"COLOR: #0e58a0">click here</span></a> for Company Registrati=
on Information.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: black; font-size: 10.5pt;"><br clear=3D"all">
</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
color: black; font-size: 11pt;">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; f=
ont-size: 11pt;">Haoweiguo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">haoweiguo@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 10:38 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;, Ali Sajassi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:saja=
ssi@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sajassi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=
=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 4.5pt=
 solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt;=
 PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Hi John,=
</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">&nbsp;Fi=
rstly i think EVPN community should reach consensus on the issues of curren=
t DF election mechanism. All these issues should be resolved in a single ne=
w DF election draft,rather than in multiple
 separate drafts. If your draft can solve all these issues and stable, i ha=
ve no question for its progressing. But if your draft have not solved all i=
ssues, i think it had better combine with other drafts to provide a compreh=
ensive solution. I think the issues
 listed in draft-rabadan-bess-evpn-ac-df-01 and draft-hao-bess-evpn-df-hand=
shaking-00 is valid, it should be resolved. So i think although your new Ha=
sh algorithm for DF election is good, it only includes partial enhancements=
, maybe it still needs some time
 for consensus.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Thanks,<=
/span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">weiguo</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF271558">
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font=
-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></=
b><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: =
10pt;"> John E Drake [<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blan=
k">jdrake@juniper.net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:16<br>
<b>To:</b> Haoweiguo; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Weiguo,</span><span style=3D"COLOR:=
 black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Your proposal introduces a control =
plane processing load that is O(#EVIs * PEs) per DF election and given that=
 there can be 4K EVIs per ES, this looks
 like a *<b>substantial</b>* load.&nbsp; Furthermore,</span><span style=3D"=
COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">you can=92t &nbsp;use the ES route =
to co-ordinate DF election because you would need to carry your new extende=
d community for each EVI and they would not
 all fit.&nbsp; You also can=92t use the Per EVI Ethernet AD route because =
that is processed by all PEs in the EVI.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">I think that from a practical persp=
ective the new DF election proposed in Satya=92s draft is sufficiently stab=
le that it renders your draft moot, even
 if it could be made to work.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Yours Irrespectively,</span><span s=
tyle=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">John</span><span style=3D"COLOR: bl=
ack"></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
color: black; font-size: 11pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:=
 Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 11pt;"> BESS [<a href=3D"mai=
lto:bess-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org</=
a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haoweiguo<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi); <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Pax=
os algorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Hi Ali,</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Thanks fo=
r your information. I scanned through this draft, it really introduces inte=
r-chassis message for DF election handshaking, the requirements in this dra=
ft is to eliminate transiet Loop and
 traffic duplication. Current EVPN DF election mechanism already eliminated=
 loop and traffic duplication by configuring long reception timer on each m=
ulti-homed PE, but up to reception timer traffic disruption issue still exi=
st. EVPN for DCI is an important
 use case for EVPN, up to reception timer traffic disruption can't be toler=
ated for service providers, it should be improved.</span><span style=3D"COL=
OR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Also for =
accuracy, i think handshaking state machine on each multi-homed PE is also =
needed. From solution perspective, in my draft, no inter-chassis message is=
 introduced, only one new extended
 community is introduced, i think the process is comparatively simple than =
your following draft.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Current E=
VPN DF election has some drawbacks, so there are three new drafts about DF =
election emerged. I think BESS WG can consider these three drafts in global=
 view,&nbsp; a single,comprehensive new
 DF election draft is hoped.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">thanks.</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Thanks,</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">weiguo</s=
pan><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF484031">
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font=
-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></=
b><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: =
10pt;"> BESS [<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">be=
ss-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
 on behalf of Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">sajassi@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2015 0:21<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] Handshaking among PEs in an EVPN ES based on Paxos a=
lgorithm</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">FYI- First published Ju=
ly 4, 2011</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><a href=3D"https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-segment-route" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-segment-route=
</a>/</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">-Ali</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D14B020113028Esajassiciscocom_--

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Subject: [bess] Fwd: [Errata Verified] RFC6368 (4309)
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Since the L3VPN mailing-list is now idle, I'm forwarding this 
notification of a verified errata to BESS as well.
(on RFC6368 "Internal BGP as the PE6CE Edge Protocol for BGP/MPLS IP VPNs")

-Thomas

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From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
To: GAULON Guillaume IMT/OLN <guillaume.gaulon@orange.com>,
	"pedro.r.marques@gmail.com" <pedro.r.marques@gmail.com>, "robert@raszuk.net"
	<robert@raszuk.net>, "keyupate@cisco.com" <keyupate@cisco.com>,
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Subject: [Errata Verified] RFC6368 (4309)
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The following errata report has been verified for RFC6368,
"Internal BGP as the Provider/Customer Edge Protocol for BGP/MPLS IP Virtua=
l Private Networks (VPNs)".=20

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6368&eid=3D4309

--------------------------------------
Status: Verified
Type: Technical

Reported by: Guillaume Gaulon <guillaume.gaulon@orange.com>
Date Reported: 2015-03-20
Verified by: Alia Atlas (IESG)

Section: 7

Original Text
-------------
   In the traditional model, where External BGP sessions are used
   between the BGP/MPLS VPN PE and CE, the PE router identifies itself
   as belonging to the customer network autonomous system.

Corrected Text
--------------
   In the traditional model, where External BGP sessions are used
   between the BGP/MPLS VPN PE and CE, the PE router identifies itself
   as belonging to the provider network autonomous system.

Notes
-----


--------------------------------------
RFC6368 (draft-ietf-l3vpn-ibgp-08)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Internal BGP as the Provider/Customer Edge Protocol f=
or BGP/MPLS IP Virtual Private Networks (VPNs)
Publication Date    : September 2011
Author(s)           : P. Marques, R. Raszuk, K. Patel, K. Kumaki, T. Yamaga=
ta
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


--------------080308060209080604080000--


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Subject: [bess] Fwd: [Bier] draft-rosen-l3vpn-mvpn-bier-02: Call for adoption
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WG,

this should have been sent on this list as well ...

So please be aware of this running call for adoption.

-m


-------- Message transféré --------
Sujet : 	[Bier] draft-rosen-l3vpn-mvpn-bier-02: Call for adoption
Date : 	Wed, 1 Apr 2015 08:06:14 -0700
De : 	Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Répondre à : 	gjshep@gmail.com
Pour : 	bier@ietf.org <bier@ietf.org>



This is the official WG Call For Adoption for the following ID:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rosen-l3vpn-mvpn-bier/

At the BIER WG meeting, IETF 92 in Dallas, the room indicated support
for adoption. Please respond to the list with your yes/no vote to confirm.

Thanks,
Greg (chairs)



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From: Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 22:32:32 +0000
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Subject: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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Looking at the minutes, I think there wasn't enough time left for the draft=
-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.

I will explain the answer to the question that was asked.

In option C the ASBR-W will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the DC.=
 NVE in some cases could be a ToR and in most cases will be a software gate=
way in the hypervisor. In any case the number of NVEs can run in thousands.=
 This would mean the other service provider will need to establish EBGP ses=
sions possibly in thousands which is not practical. In this scenario Option=
-B will provide the architecture to address the scaling issue.

I would like to request additional comments and call for adoption.


Regards,
Osama





From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM
To: bess@ietf.org
Subject: [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting


The BESS minutes for IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).  Should you =
want to make changes to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.  T=
he minutes have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at:

http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=
=3Dtrue

Sue Hares

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Looking at the minutes=
, I think there wasn&#8217;t enough time left for the draft-hao-bess-inter-=
nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I will explain the ans=
wer to the question that was asked.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">In option C the ASBR-W=
 will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the DC. NVE in some cases cou=
ld be a ToR and in most cases will be a software gateway in the hypervisor.=
 In any case the number of NVEs can
 run in thousands. This would mean the other service provider will need to =
establish EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical. In th=
is scenario Option-B will provide the architecture to address the scaling i=
ssue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I would like to reques=
t additional comments and call for adoption.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Osama<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-6gmmhdz69z31vz77zbz83zz122zz=
86zz68z"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-6gmmhdz69z31vz77zbz83zz122zz=
86zz68z"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-6gmmhdz69z31vz77zbz83zz122zz=
86zz68z"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] <b>=
On Behalf Of
</b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">The BESS minutes for=
 IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).&nbsp; Should you want to make ch=
anges to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.&nbsp; The minutes=
 have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92
 which is at: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/not=
es-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=3Dtrue"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">ht=
tp://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=3Dt=
rue</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">Sue Hares <o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com>
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Cc: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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Hi Osama,

> This would mean the other service provider will need to establish
> EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical.

That assertion is not correct.

Option C for route distribution scaling uses route reflection in each
cluster therefor eliminating the need to establish more then one (or two
for redundancy) EBGP sessions between data centers or independent clusters.

Cheers,
R.



On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:

>  Looking at the minutes, I think there wasn=E2=80=99t enough time left fo=
r the
> draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.
>
>
>
> I will explain the answer to the question that was asked.
>
>
>
> In option C the ASBR-W will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the
> DC. NVE in some cases could be a ToR and in most cases will be a software
> gateway in the hypervisor. In any case the number of NVEs can run in
> thousands. This would mean the other service provider will need to
> establish EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical. In
> this scenario Option-B will provide the architecture to address the scali=
ng
> issue.
>
>
>
> I would like to request additional comments and call for adoption.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Susan Hares
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM
> *To:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting
>
>
>
>
>
> The BESS minutes for IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).  Should yo=
u
> want to make changes to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.
> The minutes have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at:
>
>
>
>
> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=
=3Dtrue
>
>
>
> Sue Hares
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;cou=
rier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Hi Osama,</div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:sm=
all"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;couri=
er new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">&gt; This woul=
d mean the other service provider will need to=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.66666698455=
81px">establish=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><span style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.666666984558=
1px">&gt; EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical.</span=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#=
39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">That asser=
tion is not correct.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;fo=
nt-size:small">Option C for route distribution scaling uses route reflectio=
n in each cluster therefor eliminating the need to establish more then one =
(or two for redundancy) EBGP sessions between data centers or independent c=
lusters.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courie=
r new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Che=
ers,<br>R.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;cour=
ier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><=
br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On=
 Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Osama Zia <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</a>&gt;=
</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Looking at the minutes=
, I think there wasn=E2=80=99t enough time left for the draft-hao-bess-inte=
r-nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">I will explain the ans=
wer to the question that was asked.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">In option C the ASBR-W=
 will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the DC. NVE in some cases cou=
ld be a ToR and in most cases will be a software gateway in the hypervisor.=
 In any case the number of NVEs can
 run in thousands. This would mean the other service provider will need to =
establish EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical. In th=
is scenario Option-B will provide the architecture to address the scaling i=
ssue.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">I would like to reques=
t additional comments and call for adoption.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Osama<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> BESS [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">The BESS minutes for=
 IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).=C2=A0 Should you want to make ch=
anges to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.=C2=A0 The minutes=
 have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92
 which is at: <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/not=
es-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=3Dtrue" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:9.0pt">http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?us=
eMonospaceFont=3Dtrue</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">Sue Hares <u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113e9d98c02e4b05136677ff--


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From: "Satya Mohanty (satyamoh)" <satyamoh@cisco.com>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] Request for WG adoption of draft-mohanty-bess-evpn-df-election
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com>
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Cc: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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Osama,

To the best of my knowledge RRs are pretty base elements in BGP :)

If you have 1000 of endpoints within any data center please kindly observe
that it is not only ASBR option B information that they need (even if you
would establish 1000 IBGP vpnv4/6 sessions to such border router.

Such endpoints also need to exchange information between themselves and
here again RRs come to the rescue (at least for the time being).

So I recommend to look not at one particular function you are pushing, but
at entire picture then evaluate the need for RRs likely with RTC or not.

Best,
r.


On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:

>  I was talking about the base model. You are right that we may solve the
> scalability problem by introducing RR.
>
>
>
> However, with the proposed solution we achieve the same thing without
> using RR.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2015 3:42 PM
> *To:* Osama Zia
> *Cc:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
>
>
>
> Hi Osama,
>
>
>
> > This would mean the other service provider will need to establish
>
> > EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical.
>
>
>
> That assertion is not correct.
>
>
>
> Option C for route distribution scaling uses route reflection in each
> cluster therefor eliminating the need to establish more then one (or two
> for redundancy) EBGP sessions between data centers or independent cluster=
s.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>  Looking at the minutes, I think there wasn=E2=80=99t enough time left fo=
r the
> draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.
>
>
>
> I will explain the answer to the question that was asked.
>
>
>
> In option C the ASBR-W will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the
> DC. NVE in some cases could be a ToR and in most cases will be a software
> gateway in the hypervisor. In any case the number of NVEs can run in
> thousands. This would mean the other service provider will need to
> establish EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical. In
> this scenario Option-B will provide the architecture to address the scali=
ng
> issue.
>
>
>
> I would like to request additional comments and call for adoption.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Susan Hares
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM
> *To:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting
>
>
>
>
>
> The BESS minutes for IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).  Should yo=
u
> want to make changes to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.
> The minutes have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at:
>
>
>
>
> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=
=3Dtrue
>
>
>
> Sue Hares
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>
>
>

--001a1135fbe2f5fb7e05136ffaa9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">Osama,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:s=
mall">To the best of my knowledge RRs are pretty base elements in BGP :)</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;=
font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">If you have 1000 of endpoints with=
in any data center please kindly observe that it is not only ASBR option B =
information that they need (even if you would establish 1000 IBGP vpnv4/6 s=
essions to such border router.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:sm=
all">Such endpoints also need to exchange information between themselves an=
d here again RRs come to the rescue (at least for the time being).=C2=A0</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;=
font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">So I recommend to look not at one =
particular function you are pushing, but at entire picture then evaluate th=
e need for RRs likely with RTC or not.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font=
-size:small">Best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:c=
ourier new,monospace;font-size:small">r.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-siz=
e:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On=
 Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Osama Zia <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<=
/span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I was talking about the base model. Y=
ou are right that we may solve the scalability problem by introducing RR.<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">However, with the proposed solution w=
e achieve the same thing without using RR.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Osama<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> <a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rr=
aszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 10, 2015 3:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Hi Osama,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&gt; This would mean the other servic=
e provider will need to=C2=A0establish=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&gt; EBGP sessions possibly in thousa=
nds which is not practical.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
That assertion is not correct.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Option C for route distribution scaling uses route reflection in each clust=
er therefor eliminating the need to establish more then one (or two for red=
undancy) EBGP sessions between data centers or
 independent clusters.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Cheers,<br>
R.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Osama Zia &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Looking at the minutes=
, I think there wasn=E2=80=99t enough time left for the draft-hao-bess-inte=
r-nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">I will explain the ans=
wer to the question that was asked.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">In option C the ASBR-W=
 will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the DC. NVE in some cases cou=
ld be a ToR and in most cases will be a software gateway
 in the hypervisor. In any case the number of NVEs can run in thousands. Th=
is would mean the other service provider will need to establish EBGP sessio=
ns possibly in thousands which is not practical. In this scenario Option-B =
will provide the architecture to
 address the scaling issue.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">I would like to reques=
t additional comments and call for adoption.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Regards,</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Osama</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> BESS [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">The BESS minutes for=
 IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).=C2=A0 Should you want to make ch=
anges to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.=C2=A0
 The minutes have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at: </sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/not=
es-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=3Dtrue" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:9.0pt">http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?us=
eMonospaceFont=3Dtrue</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">Sue Hares
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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Message-ID: <CA+b+ERmXCw4xGb=PCofSQYu7m7jbs+ow+MC8LoTyctCwCdNLbw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com>
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Cc: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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--001a113e9d98207c9305139c1de5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
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Osama,

Yes I have read the draft. It is describing a solution to problem which
does not exist in practice.

Ref: http://www.opencontrail.org/

The crux of the issue you are solving is here:

   Each NVE is a BGP speaker. Operator may configure single and unique
   VNID for each tenant network on all NVEs or configure NVEs to
   locally allocate VNID for each VRF on the NVEs, the VNID is called
   VNID-t.


If you would not mess up RFC4364 with VNIDs and use vanilla MPLS label as a
demux you would not require any additional mapping at the ASBRs hence your
option B as well as option C would work seamlessly. All over plain IP CLOS
fabric + any type of WAN.

That is my point.

Best,
r.



On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:

>  Robert,
>
>
>
> I am not sure if you have read the draft. The discussion here is not abou=
t
> using RR. It is about looking at how option B is used in the context of
> inter-as where both sides are not using MPLS. I would argue that in this
> solution option-C provides no real benefit. For scaling purposes we are
> already proposing a centralized solution.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 11, 2015 3:03 AM
>
> *To:* Osama Zia
> *Cc:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
>
>
>
> Osama,
>
>
>
> To the best of my knowledge RRs are pretty base elements in BGP :)
>
>
>
> If you have 1000 of endpoints within any data center please kindly observ=
e
> that it is not only ASBR option B information that they need (even if you
> would establish 1000 IBGP vpnv4/6 sessions to such border router.
>
>
>
> Such endpoints also need to exchange information between themselves and
> here again RRs come to the rescue (at least for the time being).
>
>
>
> So I recommend to look not at one particular function you are pushing, bu=
t
> at entire picture then evaluate the need for RRs likely with RTC or not.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> r.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>  I was talking about the base model. You are right that we may solve the
> scalability problem by introducing RR.
>
>
>
> However, with the proposed solution we achieve the same thing without
> using RR.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2015 3:42 PM
> *To:* Osama Zia
> *Cc:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
>
>
>
> Hi Osama,
>
>
>
> > This would mean the other service provider will need to establish
>
> > EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical.
>
>
>
> That assertion is not correct.
>
>
>
> Option C for route distribution scaling uses route reflection in each
> cluster therefor eliminating the need to establish more then one (or two
> for redundancy) EBGP sessions between data centers or independent cluster=
s.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>  Looking at the minutes, I think there wasn=E2=80=99t enough time left fo=
r the
> draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.
>
>
>
> I will explain the answer to the question that was asked.
>
>
>
> In option C the ASBR-W will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the
> DC. NVE in some cases could be a ToR and in most cases will be a software
> gateway in the hypervisor. In any case the number of NVEs can run in
> thousands. This would mean the other service provider will need to
> establish EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical. In
> this scenario Option-B will provide the architecture to address the scali=
ng
> issue.
>
>
>
> I would like to request additional comments and call for adoption.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Susan Hares
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM
> *To:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting
>
>
>
>
>
> The BESS minutes for IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).  Should yo=
u
> want to make changes to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.
> The minutes have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at:
>
>
>
>
> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=
=3Dtrue
>
>
>
> Sue Hares
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>
>
>
>
>

--001a113e9d98207c9305139c1de5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;cou=
rier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Osama,</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small=
"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier =
new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Yes I have read the draft. It is descri=
bing a solution to problem which does not exist in practice.=C2=A0</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monosp=
ace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Ref:=C2=A0<a href=3D=
"http://www.opencontrail.org/">http://www.opencontrail.org/</a></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace=
;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">The crux of the issue y=
ou are solving is here:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;fon=
t-size:small"><pre class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-=
bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">   Each NVE is a BGP speaker. Operator may con=
figure single and unique
   VNID for each tenant network on all NVEs or configure NVEs to
   locally allocate VNID for each VRF on the NVEs, the VNID is called
   VNID-t.</pre></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#3=
9;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:sm=
all">If you would not mess up RFC4364 with VNIDs and use vanilla MPLS label=
 as a demux you would not require any additional mapping at the ASBRs hence=
 your option B as well as option C would work seamlessly. All over plain IP=
 CLOS fabric + any type of WAN.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small">That is my point.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small=
"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier =
new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">r.</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;=
,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 13=
, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Osama Zia <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:osamaz=
@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Robert,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I am not sure if you have read the dr=
aft. The discussion here is not about using RR. It is about looking at how =
option B is used in the context of inter-as where
 both sides are not using MPLS. I would argue that in this solution option-=
C provides no real benefit. For scaling purposes we are already proposing a=
 centralized solution.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Osama<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> <a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rr=
aszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 11, 2015 3:03 AM</span></p><div><div class=3D"=
h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn<u></u><u></u></div=
></div><p></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Osama,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
To the best of my knowledge RRs are pretty base elements in BGP :)<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
If you have 1000 of endpoints within any data center please kindly observe =
that it is not only ASBR option B information that they need (even if you w=
ould establish 1000 IBGP vpnv4/6 sessions to such
 border router.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Such endpoints also need to exchange information between themselves and her=
e again RRs come to the rescue (at least for the time being).=C2=A0<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
So I recommend to look not at one particular function you are pushing, but =
at entire picture then evaluate the need for RRs likely with RTC or not.=C2=
=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
r.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Osama Zia &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I was talking about the base model. Y=
ou are right that we may solve the scalability problem by introducing
 RR.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">However, with the proposed solution w=
e achieve the same thing without using RR.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Osama</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a=
> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gm=
ail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 10, 2015 3:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Hi Osama,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&gt; This would mean the other servic=
e provider will need to=C2=A0establish=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&gt; EBGP sessions possibly in thousa=
nds which is not practical.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
That assertion is not correct.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Option C for route distribution scaling uses route reflection in each clust=
er therefor eliminating the need to establish more then one (or
 two for redundancy) EBGP sessions between data centers or independent clus=
ters.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Cheers,<br>
R.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Osama Zia &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Looking at the minutes=
, I think there wasn=E2=80=99t enough time left for the draft-hao-bess-inte=
r-nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">I will explain the ans=
wer to the question that was asked.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">In option C the ASBR-W=
 will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the DC. NVE in some cases cou=
ld be a ToR and in most cases will be a software gateway
 in the hypervisor. In any case the number of NVEs can run in thousands. Th=
is would mean the other service provider will need to establish EBGP sessio=
ns possibly in thousands which is not practical. In this scenario Option-B =
will provide the architecture to
 address the scaling issue.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">I would like to reques=
t additional comments and call for adoption.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Regards,</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Osama</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> BESS [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">The BESS minutes for=
 IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).=C2=A0 Should you want to make ch=
anges to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.=C2=A0
 The minutes have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at: </sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/not=
es-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=3Dtrue" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:9.0pt">http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?us=
eMonospaceFont=3Dtrue</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">Sue Hares
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113e9d98207c9305139c1de5--


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From: Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com>
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Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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> Are you suggesting to use labels in the CLOS network

Nope ... please ...

Transport of RFC4364 can be realized with IPv4 or IPv6 just fine.

Please see:

MPLS in IP or GRE
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4023

MPLS in UDP
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510

> instead of any other encap mechanism and use inter-as options in their
native form?

Please observe that MPLS in RFC4364 is used just for demux to tenants.
Functionally it is identical equivalent to VNID hence inventing new
terminology seems in odds with deployed best practices.

MPLS for transport on the other hand which some RFC4364 deployments use has
no use in IP based CLOS fabric (of course provided that the underlay IP
numbering is done with a bit consciousness :)

So it is key to understand that transport and tenant demux spaces are
completely orthogonal and while some mix them they do not overlap
functionally at all.


Cheers,
R.


On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:

>  Okay, so help me understand your point of view here.
>
>
>
> Are you suggesting to use labels in the CLOS network instead of any other
> encap mechanism and use inter-as options in their native form?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2015 7:42 AM
>
> *To:* Osama Zia
> *Cc:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
>
>
>
> Osama,
>
>
>
> Yes I have read the draft. It is describing a solution to problem which
> does not exist in practice.
>
>
>
> Ref: http://www.opencontrail.org/
>
>
>
> The crux of the issue you are solving is here:
>
>
>
>    Each NVE is a BGP speaker. Operator may configure single and unique
>
>    VNID for each tenant network on all NVEs or configure NVEs to
>
>    locally allocate VNID for each VRF on the NVEs, the VNID is called
>
>    VNID-t.
>
>
>
> If you would not mess up RFC4364 with VNIDs and use vanilla MPLS label as
> a demux you would not require any additional mapping at the ASBRs hence
> your option B as well as option C would work seamlessly. All over plain I=
P
> CLOS fabric + any type of WAN.
>
>
>
> That is my point.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> r.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>  Robert,
>
>
>
> I am not sure if you have read the draft. The discussion here is not abou=
t
> using RR. It is about looking at how option B is used in the context of
> inter-as where both sides are not using MPLS. I would argue that in this
> solution option-C provides no real benefit. For scaling purposes we are
> already proposing a centralized solution.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 11, 2015 3:03 AM
>
>
> *To:* Osama Zia
> *Cc:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
>
>
>
> Osama,
>
>
>
> To the best of my knowledge RRs are pretty base elements in BGP :)
>
>
>
> If you have 1000 of endpoints within any data center please kindly observ=
e
> that it is not only ASBR option B information that they need (even if you
> would establish 1000 IBGP vpnv4/6 sessions to such border router.
>
>
>
> Such endpoints also need to exchange information between themselves and
> here again RRs come to the rescue (at least for the time being).
>
>
>
> So I recommend to look not at one particular function you are pushing, bu=
t
> at entire picture then evaluate the need for RRs likely with RTC or not.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> r.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>  I was talking about the base model. You are right that we may solve the
> scalability problem by introducing RR.
>
>
>
> However, with the proposed solution we achieve the same thing without
> using RR.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2015 3:42 PM
> *To:* Osama Zia
> *Cc:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
>
>
>
> Hi Osama,
>
>
>
> > This would mean the other service provider will need to establish
>
> > EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical.
>
>
>
> That assertion is not correct.
>
>
>
> Option C for route distribution scaling uses route reflection in each
> cluster therefor eliminating the need to establish more then one (or two
> for redundancy) EBGP sessions between data centers or independent cluster=
s.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>  Looking at the minutes, I think there wasn=E2=80=99t enough time left fo=
r the
> draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.
>
>
>
> I will explain the answer to the question that was asked.
>
>
>
> In option C the ASBR-W will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the
> DC. NVE in some cases could be a ToR and in most cases will be a software
> gateway in the hypervisor. In any case the number of NVEs can run in
> thousands. This would mean the other service provider will need to
> establish EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical. In
> this scenario Option-B will provide the architecture to address the scali=
ng
> issue.
>
>
>
> I would like to request additional comments and call for adoption.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Susan Hares
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM
> *To:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting
>
>
>
>
>
> The BESS minutes for IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).  Should yo=
u
> want to make changes to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.
> The minutes have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at:
>
>
>
>
> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=
=3Dtrue
>
>
>
> Sue Hares
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;cou=
rier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125=
);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">&gt; Are you=
 suggesting to use labels in the CLOS network</span><br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-s=
ize:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39=
;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Nope ... please ...=C2=A0</div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mo=
nospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Transport of RFC=
4364 can be realized with IPv4 or IPv6 just fine.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-si=
ze:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;=
courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Please see:</div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-si=
ze:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;=
courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">MPLS in IP or GRE</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><a href=3D=
"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4023">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4023</=
a></font><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;c=
ourier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small=
">MPLS in UDP</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier=
 new, monospace"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510">https://to=
ols.ietf.org/html/rfc7510</a></font><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39=
;,monospace;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">&gt; instead of any othe=
r encap mechanism and use inter-as options in their native form?</span><br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#3=
9;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Please obs=
erve that MPLS in RFC4364 is used just for demux to tenants. Functionally i=
t is identical equivalent to VNID hence inventing new terminology seems in =
odds with deployed best practices.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39=
;,monospace;font-size:small">MPLS for transport on the other hand which som=
e RFC4364 deployments use has no use in IP based CLOS fabric (of course pro=
vided that the underlay IP numbering is done with a bit consciousness :)=C2=
=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new=
&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">So it is=
 key to understand that transport and tenant demux spaces are completely or=
thogonal and while some mix them they do not overlap functionally at all.=
=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier =
new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39=
;,monospace;font-size:small">Cheers,<br>R.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br=
></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On M=
on, Apr 13, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Osama Zia <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Okay, so help me understand your poin=
t of view here.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Are you suggesting to use labels in t=
he CLOS network instead of any other encap mechanism and use inter-as optio=
ns in their native form?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Osama<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> <a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rr=
aszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 13, 2015 7:42 AM</span></p><div><div class=3D"h5=
"><br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn<u></u><u></u></div=
></div><p></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Osama,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Yes I have read the draft. It is describing a solution to problem which doe=
s not exist in practice.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Ref:=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.opencontrail.org/" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.opencontrail.org/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
The crux of the issue you are solving is here:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Each NVE is =
a BGP speaker. Operator may configure single and unique<u></u><u></u></span=
></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 VNID for eac=
h tenant network on all NVEs or configure NVEs to<u></u><u></u></span></pre=
>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> =C2=A0=C2=A0locally allo=
cate VNID for each VRF on the NVEs, the VNID is called<u></u><u></u></span>=
</pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 VNID-t.<u></=
u><u></u></span></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
If you would not mess up RFC4364 with VNIDs and use vanilla MPLS label as a=
 demux you would not require any additional mapping at the ASBRs hence your=
 option B as well as option C would work seamlessly.
 All over plain IP CLOS fabric + any type of WAN.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
That is my point.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
r.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Osama Zia &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Robert,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I am not sure if you have read the dr=
aft. The discussion here is not about using RR. It is about looking
 at how option B is used in the context of inter-as where both sides are no=
t using MPLS. I would argue that in this solution option-C provides no real=
 benefit. For scaling purposes we are already proposing a centralized solut=
ion.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Osama</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a=
> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gm=
ail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 11, 2015 3:03 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Osama,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
To the best of my knowledge RRs are pretty base elements in BGP :)</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
If you have 1000 of endpoints within any data center please kindly observe =
that it is not only ASBR option B information that they need (even
 if you would establish 1000 IBGP vpnv4/6 sessions to such border router.=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Such endpoints also need to exchange information between themselves and her=
e again RRs come to the rescue (at least for the time being).=C2=A0</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
So I recommend to look not at one particular function you are pushing, but =
at entire picture then evaluate the need for RRs likely with RTC
 or not.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Best,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
r.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Osama Zia &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I was talking about the base model. Y=
ou are right that we may solve the scalability problem by introducing
 RR.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">However, with the proposed solution w=
e achieve the same thing without using RR.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Osama</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a=
> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gm=
ail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 10, 2015 3:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Hi Osama,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&gt; This would mean the other servic=
e provider will need to=C2=A0establish=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&gt; EBGP sessions possibly in thousa=
nds which is not practical.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
That assertion is not correct.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Option C for route distribution scaling uses route reflection in each clust=
er therefor eliminating the need to establish more then one (or
 two for redundancy) EBGP sessions between data centers or independent clus=
ters.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Cheers,<br>
R.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Osama Zia &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Looking at the minutes=
, I think there wasn=E2=80=99t enough time left for the draft-hao-bess-inte=
r-nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">I will explain the ans=
wer to the question that was asked.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">In option C the ASBR-W=
 will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the DC. NVE in some cases cou=
ld be a ToR and in most cases will be a software gateway
 in the hypervisor. In any case the number of NVEs can run in thousands. Th=
is would mean the other service provider will need to establish EBGP sessio=
ns possibly in thousands which is not practical. In this scenario Option-B =
will provide the architecture to
 address the scaling issue.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">I would like to reques=
t additional comments and call for adoption.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Regards,</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Osama</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> BESS [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">The BESS minutes for=
 IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).=C2=A0 Should you want to make ch=
anges to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.=C2=A0
 The minutes have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at: </sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/not=
es-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=3Dtrue" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:9.0pt">http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?us=
eMonospaceFont=3Dtrue</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">Sue Hares
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7bd6bb5a6b59fd05139d0d84--


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From: Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com>
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Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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Osama,

To be very clear ... I am not stating that this draft is inventing VNIDs ..
it is NVO3 group strategy I am questioning here :)

Also - as I am sure you know - if you look at other communities they also
have their own preferences as to tenant demux IDs and encapsulations.

All I am trying to point out that the exact functionality this draft
describes is already available and deployed without need to invent new
gateway behaviors if you happen to use in your data center one of the open
source solutions which uses IP forwarding with 4364 as tenant demux.

Moreover it works fine today with all 4364 inter-as options A, B, C or even
D leave alone other less popular flavors like C+/C- ....

Hence IMO one should really think why would we not use it and what other
then compliance with NVO3 do we really gain here technically ?

Best,
r.


On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:

>  Thanks for the clarification Robert.
>
>
>
> MPLS has been around for quite a while, there are definitely solutions ou=
t
> there like the ones you have mentioned below. However, there are quite a
> number of deployments out there that do not use MPLS. In fact, if you loo=
k
> at the meeting minutes for NVO3 in IETF-91, you will observe that MPLS wa=
s
> deferred to other WGs and that led to new overlay technologies like GUE,
> GENEVE apart from existing VXLAN. BTW=E2=80=A6NVO3 have just adopted them=
 as
> working group documents.
>
>
>
> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/nvo3/minutes?item=3Dminutes-91-nvo3.html
>
>
>
> I would also like to clarify that VNID is not something we have invented
> for the purpose of this draft. It is already out there and we are providi=
ng
> a solution that can bridge these two technologies.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2015 8:49 AM
>
> *To:* Osama Zia
> *Cc:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
>
>
>
> > Are you suggesting to use labels in the CLOS network
>
>
>
> Nope ... please ...
>
>
>
> Transport of RFC4364 can be realized with IPv4 or IPv6 just fine.
>
>
>
> Please see:
>
>
>
> MPLS in IP or GRE
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4023
>
>
>
> MPLS in UDP
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510
>
>
>
> > instead of any other encap mechanism and use inter-as options in their
> native form?
>
>
>
> Please observe that MPLS in RFC4364 is used just for demux to tenants.
> Functionally it is identical equivalent to VNID hence inventing new
> terminology seems in odds with deployed best practices.
>
>
>
> MPLS for transport on the other hand which some RFC4364 deployments use
> has no use in IP based CLOS fabric (of course provided that the underlay =
IP
> numbering is done with a bit consciousness :)
>
>
>
> So it is key to understand that transport and tenant demux spaces are
> completely orthogonal and while some mix them they do not overlap
> functionally at all.
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>  Okay, so help me understand your point of view here.
>
>
>
> Are you suggesting to use labels in the CLOS network instead of any other
> encap mechanism and use inter-as options in their native form?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2015 7:42 AM
>
>
> *To:* Osama Zia
> *Cc:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
>
>
>
> Osama,
>
>
>
> Yes I have read the draft. It is describing a solution to problem which
> does not exist in practice.
>
>
>
> Ref: http://www.opencontrail.org/
>
>
>
> The crux of the issue you are solving is here:
>
>
>
>    Each NVE is a BGP speaker. Operator may configure single and unique
>
>    VNID for each tenant network on all NVEs or configure NVEs to
>
>    locally allocate VNID for each VRF on the NVEs, the VNID is called
>
>    VNID-t.
>
>
>
> If you would not mess up RFC4364 with VNIDs and use vanilla MPLS label as
> a demux you would not require any additional mapping at the ASBRs hence
> your option B as well as option C would work seamlessly. All over plain I=
P
> CLOS fabric + any type of WAN.
>
>
>
> That is my point.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> r.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>  Robert,
>
>
>
> I am not sure if you have read the draft. The discussion here is not abou=
t
> using RR. It is about looking at how option B is used in the context of
> inter-as where both sides are not using MPLS. I would argue that in this
> solution option-C provides no real benefit. For scaling purposes we are
> already proposing a centralized solution.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 11, 2015 3:03 AM
>
>
> *To:* Osama Zia
> *Cc:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
>
>
>
> Osama,
>
>
>
> To the best of my knowledge RRs are pretty base elements in BGP :)
>
>
>
> If you have 1000 of endpoints within any data center please kindly observ=
e
> that it is not only ASBR option B information that they need (even if you
> would establish 1000 IBGP vpnv4/6 sessions to such border router.
>
>
>
> Such endpoints also need to exchange information between themselves and
> here again RRs come to the rescue (at least for the time being).
>
>
>
> So I recommend to look not at one particular function you are pushing, bu=
t
> at entire picture then evaluate the need for RRs likely with RTC or not.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> r.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>  I was talking about the base model. You are right that we may solve the
> scalability problem by introducing RR.
>
>
>
> However, with the proposed solution we achieve the same thing without
> using RR.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2015 3:42 PM
> *To:* Osama Zia
> *Cc:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
>
>
>
> Hi Osama,
>
>
>
> > This would mean the other service provider will need to establish
>
> > EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical.
>
>
>
> That assertion is not correct.
>
>
>
> Option C for route distribution scaling uses route reflection in each
> cluster therefor eliminating the need to establish more then one (or two
> for redundancy) EBGP sessions between data centers or independent cluster=
s.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>  Looking at the minutes, I think there wasn=E2=80=99t enough time left fo=
r the
> draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.
>
>
>
> I will explain the answer to the question that was asked.
>
>
>
> In option C the ASBR-W will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the
> DC. NVE in some cases could be a ToR and in most cases will be a software
> gateway in the hypervisor. In any case the number of NVEs can run in
> thousands. This would mean the other service provider will need to
> establish EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical. In
> this scenario Option-B will provide the architecture to address the scali=
ng
> issue.
>
>
>
> I would like to request additional comments and call for adoption.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Osama
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Susan Hares
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM
> *To:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting
>
>
>
>
>
> The BESS minutes for IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).  Should yo=
u
> want to make changes to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.
> The minutes have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at:
>
>
>
>
> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=
=3Dtrue
>
>
>
> Sue Hares
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--001a113328e40068b305139e640f
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">Osama,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:s=
mall">To be very clear ... I am not stating that this draft is inventing VN=
IDs .. it is NVO3 group strategy I am questioning here :)</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:sma=
ll"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new=
,monospace;font-size:small">Also - as I am sure you know - if you look at o=
ther communities they also have their own preferences as to tenant demux ID=
s and encapsulations.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">All =
I am trying to point out that the exact functionality this draft describes =
is already available and deployed without need to invent new gateway behavi=
ors if you happen to use in your data center one of the open source solutio=
ns which uses IP forwarding with 4364 as tenant demux.=C2=A0</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:sm=
all"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier ne=
w,monospace;font-size:small">Moreover it works fine today with all 4364 int=
er-as options A, B, C or even D leave alone other less popular flavors like=
 C+/C- ....</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">Hence IMO one should=
 really think why would we not use it and what other then compliance with N=
VO3 do we really gain here technically ?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-siz=
e:small">Best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:couri=
er new,monospace;font-size:small">r.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 13, 2015=
 at 7:12 PM, Osama Zia <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:osamaz@micro=
soft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks for the clarification Robert.<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">MPLS has been around for quite a whil=
e, there are definitely solutions out there like the ones you have mentione=
d below. However, there are quite a number of
 deployments out there that do not use MPLS. In fact, if you look at the me=
eting minutes for NVO3 in IETF-91, you will observe that MPLS was deferred =
to other WGs and that led to new overlay technologies like GUE, GENEVE apar=
t from existing VXLAN. BTW=E2=80=A6NVO3
 have just adopted them as working group documents.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/wg/n=
vo3/minutes?item=3Dminutes-91-nvo3.html" target=3D"_blank">http://tools.iet=
f.org/wg/nvo3/minutes?item=3Dminutes-91-nvo3.html</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I would also like to clarify that VNI=
D is not something we have invented for the purpose of this draft. It is al=
ready out there and we are providing a solution
 that can bridge these two technologies. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Osama<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> <a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rr=
aszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 13, 2015 8:49 AM</span></p><div><div class=3D"h5=
"><br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn<u></u><u></u></div=
></div><p></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&gt; Are you suggesting to use labels=
 in the CLOS network</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quo=
t;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Nope ... please ...=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Transport of RFC4364 can be realized with IPv4 or IPv6 just fine.=C2=A0<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Please see:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
MPLS in IP or GRE<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4023" targ=
et=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">https://t=
ools.ietf.org/html/rfc4023</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
MPLS in UDP<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510" targ=
et=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">https://t=
ools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&gt; instead of any other encap mecha=
nism and use inter-as options in their native form?</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Please observe that MPLS in RFC4364 is used just for demux to tenants. Func=
tionally it is identical equivalent to VNID hence inventing new terminology=
 seems in odds with deployed best practices.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
MPLS for transport on the other hand which some RFC4364 deployments use has=
 no use in IP based CLOS fabric (of course provided that the underlay IP nu=
mbering is done with a bit consciousness :)=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
So it is key to understand that transport and tenant demux spaces are compl=
etely orthogonal and while some mix them they do not overlap functionally a=
t all.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Cheers,<br>
R.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Osama Zia &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Okay, so help me understand your poin=
t of view here.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Are you suggesting to use labels in t=
he CLOS network instead of any other encap mechanism and use inter-as
 options in their native form?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Osama</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
</span><a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">rraszuk@gm=
ail.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,sans-serif"> [mailto:</span><a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">rraszuk@gmail.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 13, 2015 7:42 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Osama,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Yes I have read the draft. It is describing a solution to problem which doe=
s not exist in practice.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Ref:=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"http://www.opencontrail.org/" target=3D"_blank"=
><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">http://www.opencontrai=
l.org/</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
The crux of the issue you are solving is here:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Each NVE is =
a BGP speaker. Operator may configure single and unique</span><u></u><u></u=
></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 VNID for eac=
h tenant network on all NVEs or configure NVEs to</span><u></u><u></u></pre=
>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> =C2=A0=C2=A0locally allo=
cate VNID for each VRF on the NVEs, the VNID is called</span><u></u><u></u>=
</pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 VNID-t.</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
If you would not mess up RFC4364 with VNIDs and use vanilla MPLS label as a=
 demux you would not require any additional mapping at the ASBRs
 hence your option B as well as option C would work seamlessly. All over pl=
ain IP CLOS fabric + any type of WAN.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
That is my point.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Best,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
r.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Osama Zia &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Robert,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I am not sure if you have read the dr=
aft. The discussion here is not about using RR. It is about looking
 at how option B is used in the context of inter-as where both sides are no=
t using MPLS. I would argue that in this solution option-C provides no real=
 benefit. For scaling purposes we are already proposing a centralized solut=
ion.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Osama</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
</span><a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">rraszuk@gm=
ail.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,sans-serif"> [mailto:</span><a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">rraszuk@gmail.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 11, 2015 3:03 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Osama,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
To the best of my knowledge RRs are pretty base elements in BGP :)</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
If you have 1000 of endpoints within any data center please kindly observe =
that it is not only ASBR option B information that they need (even
 if you would establish 1000 IBGP vpnv4/6 sessions to such border router.=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Such endpoints also need to exchange information between themselves and her=
e again RRs come to the rescue (at least for the time being).=C2=A0</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
So I recommend to look not at one particular function you are pushing, but =
at entire picture then evaluate the need for RRs likely with RTC
 or not.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Best,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
r.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Osama Zia &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I was talking about the base model. Y=
ou are right that we may solve the scalability problem by introducing
 RR.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">However, with the proposed solution w=
e achieve the same thing without using RR.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Osama</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
</span><a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">rraszuk@gm=
ail.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,sans-serif"> [mailto:</span><a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">rraszuk@gmail.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 10, 2015 3:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> </span><a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">bess@=
ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibr=
i&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Hi Osama,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&gt; This would mean the other servic=
e provider will need to=C2=A0establish=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&gt; EBGP sessions possibly in thousa=
nds which is not practical.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
That assertion is not correct.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Option C for route distribution scaling uses route reflection in each clust=
er therefor eliminating the need to establish more then one (or
 two for redundancy) EBGP sessions between data centers or independent clus=
ters.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Cheers,<br>
R.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Osama Zia &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Looking at the minutes=
, I think there wasn=E2=80=99t enough time left for the draft-hao-bess-inte=
r-nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">I will explain the ans=
wer to the question that was asked.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">In option C the ASBR-W=
 will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the DC. NVE in some cases cou=
ld be a ToR and in most cases will be a software gateway
 in the hypervisor. In any case the number of NVEs can run in thousands. Th=
is would mean the other service provider will need to establish EBGP sessio=
ns possibly in thousands which is not practical. In this scenario Option-B =
will provide the architecture to
 address the scaling issue.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">I would like to reques=
t additional comments and call for adoption.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Regards,</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Osama</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> BESS [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">The BESS minutes for=
 IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).=C2=A0 Should you want to make ch=
anges to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.=C2=A0
 The minutes have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at: </sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/not=
es-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=3Dtrue" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:9.0pt">http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?us=
eMonospaceFont=3Dtrue</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt">Sue Hares
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113328e40068b305139e640f--


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From: Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:02:06 +0000
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Cc: Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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> On Apr 13, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>=20
> Transport of RFC4364 can be realized with IPv4 or IPv6 just fine.
>=20
> Please see:
>=20
> MPLS in IP or GRE
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4023 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4023>
>=20
> MPLS in UDP
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510>
>=20

And MPLS in L2TPv3:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4817 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4817>

Thanks,

=E2=80=94 Carlos.

--Apple-Mail=_1F0CCB11-299C-4694-8A05-7A4F28168CB0
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Apr 13, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" class=3D"">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: 'courier new', =
monospace; font-size: small;">Transport of RFC4364 can be realized with =
IPv4 or IPv6 just fine.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
font-family: 'courier new', monospace; font-size: small;"><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: =
'courier new', monospace; font-size: small;">Please see:</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: 'courier new', =
monospace; font-size: small;"><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: 'courier new', =
monospace; font-size: small;">MPLS in IP or GRE</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font =
face=3D"courier new, monospace" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4023" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4023</a></font><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: =
'courier new', monospace; font-size: small;"><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: 'courier new', =
monospace; font-size: small;">MPLS in UDP</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font =
face=3D"courier new, monospace" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510</a></font><br =
class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">And MPLS in L2TPv3:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4817" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4817</a></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=E2=80=94 =
Carlos.</div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_1F0CCB11-299C-4694-8A05-7A4F28168CB0--

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References: <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F18287F74@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <55134595.7060209@acm.org> <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F18288682@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <D51715DF-AD05-4863-A0F3-34B93B7C5945@alcatel-lucent.com> <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1828AE5A@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <61BFC96E-350C-4F77-84E6-EFA6794B5EC0@alcatel-lucent.com> <CA+b+ERmVVaz4jm3+CRc7WMfrQn1TN5=sEiK-Qq+nngtw3yw--Q@mail.gmail.com> <A606D412-1B8B-4DAB-B4B0-1B19F31FF50B@alcatel-lucent.com> <15A9EAE0-D02F-4476-88FC-2E3BD66FA33D@alcatel-lucent.com> <CA+b+ER=RsuRBAsB=i+CgyTXOt_D9_J1QtSMWOYzn7moK1CV4DQ@mail.gmail.com> <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1828B205@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <D140442C.6D02F%jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
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On 3/31/15 1:10 PM, Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge) wrote:
> Hi Robert and Tony,
>
> As Wim mentioned, ipv6 anycast is something that we will add to the 
> draft in the next rev. There is an easy way to know if a given 
> proxy-ND entry belongs to an anycast address or not and disable the 
> duplicate IP detection for those.
>
> The challenge for IPv4 is that I don’t see an easy way to learn 
> _dynamically_ from access attachment circuits that a given ipv4 is 
> anycast. Even for default gateways, if they are integrated in the EVPN 
> PE, we are good, but if they are external and connected to a MAC-VRF, 
> it is not so clear how to learn that (unless you learn those entries 
> from the management interface).
Jorge,

IPv4/ARP doesn't have any support for anycast address on the same 
subnet. While IPv6/ND has such support (using the O-flag) the common 
anycast deployment for both is to have the anycast instances deployed on 
different subnets and, in the case of DNS servers, in different ISPs.

Thus for IPv4 I think you can assume that the same IP address appearing 
with different MAC addresses is either a duplicate IP address or a case 
of a host having changed the MAC address on its NIC. (I don't know if 
NIC bonding can be configured in a way where it looks like an IP->MAC 
change each time there is a failure; if so that would be a third case.)

    Erik

>
> One of the reasons why we have lots of “SHOULDs” in the draft and not 
> “MUST” is because the implementation has to be flexible enough to be 
> configured in a different way depending on the use-case, which is one 
> of the points that Tony mentions below. In the use-case described at 
> the moment there is no anycast and duplicate IP detection is very 
> important. We will add the DC use case in the next rev as suggested by 
> Robert and others.
> Thanks.
> Jorge
>
>
> From: Antoni Przygienda <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com 
> <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
> Date: Monday, March 30, 2015 at 12:12 AM
> To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>, 
> "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com 
> <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
> Cc: Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>, 
> "bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>" <bess@ietf.org 
> <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>, Jorge Rabadan 
> <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com 
> <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>
> Subject: RE: [bess] ARP ND draft
>
>     I’m also skeptical whether IP duplicate detection would be a good
>     default thing. Especially in case of what I call ‘aliased default
>     gateway’ which section 10.1 specifically allows, i.e. default GW
>     IP address is same but each PE may use a different MAC when
>     advertising it and consequently responses for same IP with
>     different ARPs may be seen in the network.  Yes, default GW
>     ExtComm is there to differentiate so it can be called an exception
>     but nevertheless.
>
>     I also thought a tad about VRRP but I think the IP duplicate
>     detection will not apply there, it’s all same IPx->MACx from all
>     routers so if anything, it’s more of a MAC move thing.
>
>     Generally I think someone who wants a secure, stable eVPN wants IP
>     duplicate detection, someone who runs a very dynamic network with
>     tons gateways, possibly anycast & floating IPs will probably not
>     be too enamored with it.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     --- tony
>
>     //
>
>     /There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish
>     things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The
>     first group is less crowded.
>     <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html>/
>
>     /~~~ Mark Twain
>     <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html>/
>
>     *From:*rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>
>     [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk
>     *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 1:19 AM
>     *To:* Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>     *Cc:* Erik Nordmark; Antoni Przygienda; bess@ietf.org
>     <mailto:bess@ietf.org>; Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge)
>     *Subject:* Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>
>     Hi Wim,
>
>     > There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am not ware this is
>     supported at arp level.
>
>     Precisely right. It needs to be documented and addressed if anyone
>     is up to proposing automated IP duplicate address detection and
>     disabling.
>
>     RFC1546 is rather too old to consider here as solution :)
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     R.
>
>     On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:10 AM, Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>     <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>     <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>> wrote:
>
>     To be clear: RFC4861 section 7.2.7 explains the anycast behaviour
>     in IPv6.
>
>     I am not aware of such thing at IPv4/ARP level. Do you have a pointer?
>
>     There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am not ware this is
>     supported at arp level.
>
>     *From: *<Henderickx>, Wim Henderickx
>     *Date: *Monday 30 March 2015 07:38
>     *To: *Robert Raszuk
>     *Cc: *Erik Nordmark, Antoni Przygienda, "bess@ietf.org
>     <mailto:bess@ietf.org>", Jorge Rabadan
>
>
>     *Subject: *Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>
>     At interface level you get dad in most stacks I know.
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>     On 30 Mar 2015, at 06:45, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net
>     <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>> wrote:
>
>         Hi Wim,
>
>         What makes you say that in IPv4 there is no anycast ? All
>         anycase I have played so far is IPv4 :)
>
>         Cheers,
>
>         r.
>
>         On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>         <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>> wrote:
>
>         We will update the draft to highlight the IPv6 anycast
>         behaviour better as pointed out by RObert. In IPv4 there is no
>         anycast behaviour and as such there should be one option possible.
>
>
>
>
>         On 30/03/15 04:59, "Antoni Przygienda"
>         <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>> wrote:
>
>         >Yes, but of course I brought it up to show that 'the last one
>         simply wins' as suggested by the draft is not enough IMO. A
>         good architecture should probably keep track of what it served
>         as answer and when the answer is invalid or a new, better one
>         exists, provide a GARP.
>         >
>         >As well, when PE2 sends a newer MAC it may not be a good
>         strategy to serve a GARP if PE1's MAC has already been
>         offered. That could lead IMO to e.g. gateway chasing problems.
>         >
>         >--- tony
>         >
>         >
>         >There are basically two types of people. People who
>         accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished
>         things. The first group is less crowded.
>         >~~~ Mark Twain
>         >
>         >
>         >> -----Original Message-----
>         >> From: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>         [mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>]
>         >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:01 AM
>         >> To: Antoni Przygienda; Erik Nordmark; Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge)
>         >> Cc: bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         >> Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>         >>
>         >> For this case you should sent a GARP with the new MAC/IP
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >> On 25/03/15 18:56, "Antoni Przygienda"
>         <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>         >> wrote:
>         >>
>         >> >> > b)It is worth explaining what is suggested behavior if
>         eVPN
>         >> >> > advertises the same IP with multiple MACs and what
>         happens when
>         >> >> > e.g. the served MAC vanishes
>         >> >> >
>         >> >> Doesn't the EVPN RFC already stating that the routes
>         would be
>         >> >> withdrawn in that case?
>         >> >
>         >> >The scenario I had in mind was when eVPN PE receives
>         >> >
>         >> >From PE2 IP1/M1  and  later
>         >> >From PE3 IP1/M2
>         >> >
>         >> >while having answered with IP1/M1 per proxy alrady.
>         Additionally, in
>         >> >such situation ends up seeing
>         >> >
>         >> >From PE2  IP1/<no MAC>
>         >> >
>         >> >So the answer it gave is not valid anymore all of a sudden.
>         >> >
>         >> >--- tony
>         _______________________________________________
>         BESS mailing list
>         BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>


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Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
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Erik,

How about /32 IPv4 anycast addresses with multiple subnet per linux NIC ?
It is typical to be able to overload host networking with same anycast
loopbacks.

It does not need to be ARP resolved .. the resolution is indirect via
connected next hops.

Cheers,
R.



On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:48 PM, Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org> wrote:

> On 3/31/15 1:10 PM, Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge) wrote:
>
>> Hi Robert and Tony,
>>
>> As Wim mentioned, ipv6 anycast is something that we will add to the draf=
t
>> in the next rev. There is an easy way to know if a given proxy-ND entry
>> belongs to an anycast address or not and disable the duplicate IP detect=
ion
>> for those.
>>
>> The challenge for IPv4 is that I don=E2=80=99t see an easy way to learn
>> _dynamically_ from access attachment circuits that a given ipv4 is anyca=
st.
>> Even for default gateways, if they are integrated in the EVPN PE, we are
>> good, but if they are external and connected to a MAC-VRF, it is not so
>> clear how to learn that (unless you learn those entries from the managem=
ent
>> interface).
>>
> Jorge,
>
> IPv4/ARP doesn't have any support for anycast address on the same subnet.
> While IPv6/ND has such support (using the O-flag) the common anycast
> deployment for both is to have the anycast instances deployed on differen=
t
> subnets and, in the case of DNS servers, in different ISPs.
>
> Thus for IPv4 I think you can assume that the same IP address appearing
> with different MAC addresses is either a duplicate IP address or a case o=
f
> a host having changed the MAC address on its NIC. (I don't know if NIC
> bonding can be configured in a way where it looks like an IP->MAC change
> each time there is a failure; if so that would be a third case.)
>
>    Erik
>
>
>> One of the reasons why we have lots of =E2=80=9CSHOULDs=E2=80=9D in the =
draft and not
>> =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D is because the implementation has to be flexible =
enough to be
>> configured in a different way depending on the use-case, which is one of
>> the points that Tony mentions below. In the use-case described at the
>> moment there is no anycast and duplicate IP detection is very important.=
 We
>> will add the DC use case in the next rev as suggested by Robert and othe=
rs.
>> Thanks.
>> Jorge
>>
>>
>> From: Antoni Przygienda <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com <mailto:
>> antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>> Date: Monday, March 30, 2015 at 12:12 AM
>> To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>,
>> "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com <mailto:
>> wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>> Cc: Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>, "
>> bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>" <bess@ietf.org <mailto:
>> bess@ietf.org>>, Jorge Rabadan <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com <mailto=
:
>> jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>> Subject: RE: [bess] ARP ND draft
>>
>>     I=E2=80=99m also skeptical whether IP duplicate detection would be a=
 good
>>     default thing. Especially in case of what I call =E2=80=98aliased de=
fault
>>     gateway=E2=80=99 which section 10.1 specifically allows, i.e. defaul=
t GW
>>     IP address is same but each PE may use a different MAC when
>>     advertising it and consequently responses for same IP with
>>     different ARPs may be seen in the network.  Yes, default GW
>>     ExtComm is there to differentiate so it can be called an exception
>>     but nevertheless.
>>
>>     I also thought a tad about VRRP but I think the IP duplicate
>>     detection will not apply there, it=E2=80=99s all same IPx->MACx from=
 all
>>     routers so if anything, it=E2=80=99s more of a MAC move thing.
>>
>>     Generally I think someone who wants a secure, stable eVPN wants IP
>>     duplicate detection, someone who runs a very dynamic network with
>>     tons gateways, possibly anycast & floating IPs will probably not
>>     be too enamored with it.
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     --- tony
>>
>>     //
>>
>>     /There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish
>>     things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The
>>     first group is less crowded.
>>     <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html>/
>>
>>     /~~~ Mark Twain
>>     <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html>/
>>
>>     *From:*rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>
>>     [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk
>>     *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 1:19 AM
>>     *To:* Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>>     *Cc:* Erik Nordmark; Antoni Przygienda; bess@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:bess@ietf.org>; Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge)
>>     *Subject:* Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>>
>>     Hi Wim,
>>
>>     > There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am not ware this is
>>     supported at arp level.
>>
>>     Precisely right. It needs to be documented and addressed if anyone
>>     is up to proposing automated IP duplicate address detection and
>>     disabling.
>>
>>     RFC1546 is rather too old to consider here as solution :)
>>
>>     Cheers,
>>
>>     R.
>>
>>     On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:10 AM, Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>>     <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>     <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     To be clear: RFC4861 section 7.2.7 explains the anycast behaviour
>>     in IPv6.
>>
>>     I am not aware of such thing at IPv4/ARP level. Do you have a pointe=
r?
>>
>>     There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am not ware this is
>>     supported at arp level.
>>
>>     *From: *<Henderickx>, Wim Henderickx
>>     *Date: *Monday 30 March 2015 07:38
>>     *To: *Robert Raszuk
>>     *Cc: *Erik Nordmark, Antoni Przygienda, "bess@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:bess@ietf.org>", Jorge Rabadan
>>
>>
>>     *Subject: *Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>>
>>     At interface level you get dad in most stacks I know.
>>
>>     Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>     On 30 Mar 2015, at 06:45, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net
>>     <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>> wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Wim,
>>
>>         What makes you say that in IPv4 there is no anycast ? All
>>         anycase I have played so far is IPv4 :)
>>
>>         Cheers,
>>
>>         r.
>>
>>         On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>>         <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         We will update the draft to highlight the IPv6 anycast
>>         behaviour better as pointed out by RObert. In IPv4 there is no
>>         anycast behaviour and as such there should be one option possibl=
e.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         On 30/03/15 04:59, "Antoni Przygienda"
>>         <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         >Yes, but of course I brought it up to show that 'the last one
>>         simply wins' as suggested by the draft is not enough IMO. A
>>         good architecture should probably keep track of what it served
>>         as answer and when the answer is invalid or a new, better one
>>         exists, provide a GARP.
>>         >
>>         >As well, when PE2 sends a newer MAC it may not be a good
>>         strategy to serve a GARP if PE1's MAC has already been
>>         offered. That could lead IMO to e.g. gateway chasing problems.
>>         >
>>         >--- tony
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >There are basically two types of people. People who
>>         accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished
>>         things. The first group is less crowded.
>>         >~~~ Mark Twain
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >> -----Original Message-----
>>         >> From: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>>         [mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>]
>>         >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:01 AM
>>         >> To: Antoni Przygienda; Erik Nordmark; Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge)
>>         >> Cc: bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>         >> Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>>         >>
>>         >> For this case you should sent a GARP with the new MAC/IP
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >> On 25/03/15 18:56, "Antoni Przygienda"
>>         <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>>         >> wrote:
>>         >>
>>         >> >> > b)It is worth explaining what is suggested behavior if
>>         eVPN
>>         >> >> > advertises the same IP with multiple MACs and what
>>         happens when
>>         >> >> > e.g. the served MAC vanishes
>>         >> >> >
>>         >> >> Doesn't the EVPN RFC already stating that the routes
>>         would be
>>         >> >> withdrawn in that case?
>>         >> >
>>         >> >The scenario I had in mind was when eVPN PE receives
>>         >> >
>>         >> >From PE2 IP1/M1  and  later
>>         >> >From PE3 IP1/M2
>>         >> >
>>         >> >while having answered with IP1/M1 per proxy alrady.
>>         Additionally, in
>>         >> >such situation ends up seeing
>>         >> >
>>         >> >From PE2  IP1/<no MAC>
>>         >> >
>>         >> >So the answer it gave is not valid anymore all of a sudden.
>>         >> >
>>         >> >--- tony
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         BESS mailing list
>>         BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">Erik,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:sm=
all">How about /32 IPv4 anycast addresses with multiple subnet per linux NI=
C ? It is typical to be able to overload host networking with same anycast =
loopbacks.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:cou=
rier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">It does not nee=
d to be ARP resolved .. the resolution is indirect via connected next hops.=
=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,m=
onospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">Cheers,<br>R.</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size=
:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier=
 new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:48 PM, Erik Nordm=
ark <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x"><span class=3D"">On 3/31/15 1:10 PM, Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge) wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
Hi Robert and Tony,<br>
<br>
As Wim mentioned, ipv6 anycast is something that we will add to the draft i=
n the next rev. There is an easy way to know if a given proxy-ND entry belo=
ngs to an anycast address or not and disable the duplicate IP detection for=
 those.<br>
<br></span>
The challenge for IPv4 is that I don=E2=80=99t see an easy way to learn _dy=
namically_ from access attachment circuits that a given ipv4 is anycast. Ev=
en for default gateways, if they are integrated in the EVPN PE, we are good=
, but if they are external and connected to a MAC-VRF, it is not so clear h=
ow to learn that (unless you learn those entries from the management interf=
ace).<br>
</blockquote>
Jorge,<br>
<br>
IPv4/ARP doesn&#39;t have any support for anycast address on the same subne=
t. While IPv6/ND has such support (using the O-flag) the common anycast dep=
loyment for both is to have the anycast instances deployed on different sub=
nets and, in the case of DNS servers, in different ISPs.<br>
<br>
Thus for IPv4 I think you can assume that the same IP address appearing wit=
h different MAC addresses is either a duplicate IP address or a case of a h=
ost having changed the MAC address on its NIC. (I don&#39;t know if NIC bon=
ding can be configured in a way where it looks like an IP-&gt;MAC change ea=
ch time there is a failure; if so that would be a third case.)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Erik<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
<br>
One of the reasons why we have lots of =E2=80=9CSHOULDs=E2=80=9D in the dra=
ft and not =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D is because the implementation has to be f=
lexible enough to be configured in a different way depending on the use-cas=
e, which is one of the points that Tony mentions below. In the use-case des=
cribed at the moment there is no anycast and duplicate IP detection is very=
 important. We will add the DC use case in the next rev as suggested by Rob=
ert and others.<br>
Thanks.<br>
Jorge<br>
<br>
<br></span>
From: Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@ericsson.<u></u>com</a> &lt;mailto:<=
a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.p=
rzygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&gt;&gt;<span class=3D""><br>
Date: Monday, March 30, 2015 at 12:12 AM<br></span>
To: Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank=
">robert@raszuk.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" tar=
get=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;&gt;, &quot;Henderickx, Wim (Wim)&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">wim.henderickx@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u>=
</u>alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
Cc: Erik Nordmark &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>nordmark@acm.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" target=
=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt;&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;, Jorg=
e Rabadan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D=
"_blank">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.<u></u>com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"=
mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@al=
catel-<u></u>lucent.com</a>&gt;&gt;<span class=3D""><br>
Subject: RE: [bess] ARP ND draft<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m also skeptical whether IP duplicate detection wou=
ld be a good<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 default thing. Especially in case of what I call =E2=80=98ali=
ased default<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 gateway=E2=80=99 which section 10.1 specifically allows, i.e.=
 default GW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 IP address is same but each PE may use a different MAC when<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 advertising it and consequently responses for same IP with<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 different ARPs may be seen in the network.=C2=A0 Yes, default=
 GW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ExtComm is there to differentiate so it can be called an exce=
ption<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 but nevertheless.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I also thought a tad about VRRP but I think the IP duplicate<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 detection will not apply there, it=E2=80=99s all same IPx-&gt=
;MACx from all<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 routers so if anything, it=E2=80=99s more of a MAC move thing=
.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Generally I think someone who wants a secure, stable eVPN wan=
ts IP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 duplicate detection, someone who runs a very dynamic network =
with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 tons gateways, possibly anycast &amp; floating IPs will proba=
bly not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be too enamored with it.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --- tony<br>
<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 //<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 /There are basically two types of people. People who accompli=
sh<span class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 first group is less crowded.<br></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/mar=
ktwain393535.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.brainyquote.com/<u></u>quot=
es/quotes/m/<u></u>marktwain393535.html</a>&gt;/<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 /~~~ Mark Twain<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/mar=
ktwain393535.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.brainyquote.com/<u></u>quot=
es/quotes/m/<u></u>marktwain393535.html</a>&gt;/<br>
<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *From:*<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>rraszuk@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 1:19 AM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *To:* Henderickx, Wim (Wim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Cc:* Erik Nordmark; Antoni Przygienda; <a href=3D"mailto:bes=
s@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Subject:* Re: [bess] ARP ND draft<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Wim,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am not war=
e this is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 supported at arp level.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Precisely right. It needs to be documented and addressed if a=
nyone<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 is up to proposing automated IP duplicate address detection a=
nd<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 disabling.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC1546 is rather too old to consider here as solution :)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cheers,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 R.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:10 AM, Henderickx, Wim (Wim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</a><br></span><span =
class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;&gt; w=
rote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 To be clear: RFC4861 section 7.2.7 explains the anycast behav=
iour<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in IPv6.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I am not aware of such thing at IPv4/ARP level. Do you have a=
 pointer?<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am not ware thi=
s is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 supported at arp level.<br>
<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *From: *&lt;Henderickx&gt;, Wim Henderickx<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Date: *Monday 30 March 2015 07:38<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *To: *Robert Raszuk<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Cc: *Erik Nordmark, Antoni Przygienda, &quot;<a href=3D"mail=
to:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&quot;, Jorge Rabadan<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Subject: *Re: [bess] ARP ND draft<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 At interface level you get dad in most stacks I know.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 30 Mar 2015, at 06:45, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a><br></span><span=
 class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Wim,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 What makes you say that in IPv4 there is no any=
cast ? All<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 anycase I have played so far is IPv4 :)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cheers,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 r.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Henderickx, W=
im (Wim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lu=
cent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</a><br=
></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 We will update the draft to highlight the IPv6 =
anycast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 behaviour better as pointed out by RObert. In I=
Pv4 there is no<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 anycast behaviour and as such there should be o=
ne option possible.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 30/03/15 04:59, &quot;Antoni Przygienda&quot=
;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsso=
n.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@ericsson.<u></u>com</a><br></spa=
n><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;Yes, but of course I brought it up to show =
that &#39;the last one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 simply wins&#39; as suggested by the draft is n=
ot enough IMO. A<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 good architecture should probably keep track of=
 what it served<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 as answer and when the answer is invalid or a n=
ew, better one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 exists, provide a GARP.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;As well, when PE2 sends a newer MAC it may =
not be a good<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 strategy to serve a GARP if PE1&#39;s MAC has a=
lready been<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 offered. That could lead IMO to e.g. gateway ch=
asing problems.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;--- tony<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;There are basically two types of people. Pe=
ople who<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 accomplish things, and people who claim to have=
 accomplished<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 things. The first group is less crowded.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;~~~ Mark Twain<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; From: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcate=
l-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a=
><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:01 AM=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; To: Antoni Przygienda; Erik Nordmark; =
Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge)<br></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; For this case you should sent a GARP w=
ith the new MAC/IP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; On 25/03/15 18:56, &quot;Antoni Przygi=
enda&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsso=
n.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@ericsson.<u></u>com</a><br></spa=
n>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;&gt;<span class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; b)It is worth explaining=
 what is suggested behavior if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 eVPN<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; advertises the same IP w=
ith multiple MACs and what<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 happens when<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; e.g. the served MAC vani=
shes<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Doesn&#39;t the EVPN RFC alre=
ady stating that the routes<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 would be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; withdrawn in that case?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;The scenario I had in mind was whe=
n eVPN PE receives<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;From PE2 IP1/M1=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 la=
ter<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;From PE3 IP1/M2<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;while having answered with IP1/M1 =
per proxy alrady.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Additionally, in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;such situation ends up seeing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;From PE2=C2=A0 IP1/&lt;no MAC&gt;<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;So the answer it gave is not valid=
 anymore all of a sudden.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;--- tony<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<u></u>__________=
_______<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BESS mailing list<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">BESS@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/bess" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/bess=
</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">
<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/bess</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge)" <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] ARP ND draft
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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 22:39:43 +0000
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References: <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F18287F74@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <55134595.7060209@acm.org> <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F18288682@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <D51715DF-AD05-4863-A0F3-34B93B7C5945@alcatel-lucent.com> <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1828AE5A@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <61BFC96E-350C-4F77-84E6-EFA6794B5EC0@alcatel-lucent.com> <CA+b+ERmVVaz4jm3+CRc7WMfrQn1TN5=sEiK-Qq+nngtw3yw--Q@mail.gmail.com> <A606D412-1B8B-4DAB-B4B0-1B19F31FF50B@alcatel-lucent.com> <15A9EAE0-D02F-4476-88FC-2E3BD66FA33D@alcatel-lucent.com> <CA+b+ER=RsuRBAsB=i+CgyTXOt_D9_J1QtSMWOYzn7moK1CV4DQ@mail.gmail.com> <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1828B205@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <D140442C.6D02F%jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com> <552EDCB8.3060805@acm.org> <CA+b+ER=1vsx0XSYcKNfVK2ybovZgbqa+zcTXm7305HoVNqioHA@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
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On 4/15/15 2:53 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Erik,
>
> How about /32 IPv4 anycast addresses with multiple subnet per linux 
> NIC ? It is typical to be able to overload host networking with same 
> anycast loopbacks.
I guess "same subnet" isn't sufficient as criteria - "same subnet which 
corresponds to a connected route" would be one way to phrase the constraint.
>
> It does not need to be ARP resolved .. the resolution is indirect via 
> connected next hops.
Yes, that is the key issue.

For instance host routes (/32) and an anycast address on a loopback 
interface works fine in IPv4 and IPv6.

    Erik

>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:48 PM, Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org 
> <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>> wrote:
>
>     On 3/31/15 1:10 PM, Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge) wrote:
>
>         Hi Robert and Tony,
>
>         As Wim mentioned, ipv6 anycast is something that we will add
>         to the draft in the next rev. There is an easy way to know if
>         a given proxy-ND entry belongs to an anycast address or not
>         and disable the duplicate IP detection for those.
>
>         The challenge for IPv4 is that I don’t see an easy way to
>         learn _dynamically_ from access attachment circuits that a
>         given ipv4 is anycast. Even for default gateways, if they are
>         integrated in the EVPN PE, we are good, but if they are
>         external and connected to a MAC-VRF, it is not so clear how to
>         learn that (unless you learn those entries from the management
>         interface).
>
>     Jorge,
>
>     IPv4/ARP doesn't have any support for anycast address on the same
>     subnet. While IPv6/ND has such support (using the O-flag) the
>     common anycast deployment for both is to have the anycast
>     instances deployed on different subnets and, in the case of DNS
>     servers, in different ISPs.
>
>     Thus for IPv4 I think you can assume that the same IP address
>     appearing with different MAC addresses is either a duplicate IP
>     address or a case of a host having changed the MAC address on its
>     NIC. (I don't know if NIC bonding can be configured in a way where
>     it looks like an IP->MAC change each time there is a failure; if
>     so that would be a third case.)
>
>        Erik
>
>
>         One of the reasons why we have lots of “SHOULDs” in the draft
>         and not “MUST” is because the implementation has to be
>         flexible enough to be configured in a different way depending
>         on the use-case, which is one of the points that Tony mentions
>         below. In the use-case described at the moment there is no
>         anycast and duplicate IP detection is very important. We will
>         add the DC use case in the next rev as suggested by Robert and
>         others.
>         Thanks.
>         Jorge
>
>
>         From: Antoni Przygienda <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>
>         Date: Monday, March 30, 2015 at 12:12 AM
>         To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net> <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>>, "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)"
>         <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>
>         Cc: Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>>,
>         "bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org> <mailto:bess@ietf.org
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>" <bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>, Jorge Rabadan
>         <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>>
>         Subject: RE: [bess] ARP ND draft
>
>             I’m also skeptical whether IP duplicate detection would be
>         a good
>             default thing. Especially in case of what I call ‘aliased
>         default
>             gateway’ which section 10.1 specifically allows, i.e.
>         default GW
>             IP address is same but each PE may use a different MAC when
>             advertising it and consequently responses for same IP with
>             different ARPs may be seen in the network.  Yes, default GW
>             ExtComm is there to differentiate so it can be called an
>         exception
>             but nevertheless.
>
>             I also thought a tad about VRRP but I think the IP duplicate
>             detection will not apply there, it’s all same IPx->MACx
>         from all
>             routers so if anything, it’s more of a MAC move thing.
>
>             Generally I think someone who wants a secure, stable eVPN
>         wants IP
>             duplicate detection, someone who runs a very dynamic
>         network with
>             tons gateways, possibly anycast & floating IPs will
>         probably not
>             be too enamored with it.
>
>             Thanks
>
>             --- tony
>
>             //
>
>             /There are basically two types of people. People who
>         accomplish
>             things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The
>             first group is less crowded.
>            
>         <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html>/
>
>             /~~~ Mark Twain
>            
>         <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html>/
>
>             *From:*rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>
>             [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>] *On
>         Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk
>             *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 1:19 AM
>             *To:* Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>             *Cc:* Erik Nordmark; Antoni Przygienda; bess@ietf.org
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>             <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>; Rabadan,
>         Jorge (Jorge)
>             *Subject:* Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>
>             Hi Wim,
>
>             > There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am not
>         ware this is
>             supported at arp level.
>
>             Precisely right. It needs to be documented and addressed
>         if anyone
>             is up to proposing automated IP duplicate address
>         detection and
>             disabling.
>
>             RFC1546 is rather too old to consider here as solution :)
>
>             Cheers,
>
>             R.
>
>             On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:10 AM, Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>             <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>             <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>> wrote:
>
>             To be clear: RFC4861 section 7.2.7 explains the anycast
>         behaviour
>             in IPv6.
>
>             I am not aware of such thing at IPv4/ARP level. Do you
>         have a pointer?
>
>             There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am not ware
>         this is
>             supported at arp level.
>
>             *From: *<Henderickx>, Wim Henderickx
>             *Date: *Monday 30 March 2015 07:38
>             *To: *Robert Raszuk
>             *Cc: *Erik Nordmark, Antoni Przygienda, "bess@ietf.org
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>             <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>", Jorge Rabadan
>
>
>             *Subject: *Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>
>             At interface level you get dad in most stacks I know.
>
>             Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>             On 30 Mar 2015, at 06:45, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>             <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>> wrote:
>
>                 Hi Wim,
>
>                 What makes you say that in IPv4 there is no anycast ? All
>                 anycase I have played so far is IPv4 :)
>
>                 Cheers,
>
>                 r.
>
>                 On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>                 <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>> wrote:
>
>                 We will update the draft to highlight the IPv6 anycast
>                 behaviour better as pointed out by RObert. In IPv4
>         there is no
>                 anycast behaviour and as such there should be one
>         option possible.
>
>
>
>
>                 On 30/03/15 04:59, "Antoni Przygienda"
>                 <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>> wrote:
>
>                 >Yes, but of course I brought it up to show that 'the
>         last one
>                 simply wins' as suggested by the draft is not enough
>         IMO. A
>                 good architecture should probably keep track of what
>         it served
>                 as answer and when the answer is invalid or a new,
>         better one
>                 exists, provide a GARP.
>                 >
>                 >As well, when PE2 sends a newer MAC it may not be a good
>                 strategy to serve a GARP if PE1's MAC has already been
>                 offered. That could lead IMO to e.g. gateway chasing
>         problems.
>                 >
>                 >--- tony
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >There are basically two types of people. People who
>                 accomplish things, and people who claim to have
>         accomplished
>                 things. The first group is less crowded.
>                 >~~~ Mark Twain
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >> -----Original Message-----
>                 >> From: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>                 [mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>]
>                 >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:01 AM
>                 >> To: Antoni Przygienda; Erik Nordmark; Rabadan,
>         Jorge (Jorge)
>                 >> Cc: bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                 >> Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>                 >>
>                 >> For this case you should sent a GARP with the new
>         MAC/IP
>                 >>
>                 >>
>                 >>
>                 >>
>                 >> On 25/03/15 18:56, "Antoni Przygienda"
>                 <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>
>                 >> wrote:
>                 >>
>                 >> >> > b)It is worth explaining what is suggested
>         behavior if
>                 eVPN
>                 >> >> > advertises the same IP with multiple MACs and what
>                 happens when
>                 >> >> > e.g. the served MAC vanishes
>                 >> >> >
>                 >> >> Doesn't the EVPN RFC already stating that the routes
>                 would be
>                 >> >> withdrawn in that case?
>                 >> >
>                 >> >The scenario I had in mind was when eVPN PE receives
>                 >> >
>                 >> >From PE2 IP1/M1  and  later
>                 >> >From PE3 IP1/M2
>                 >> >
>                 >> >while having answered with IP1/M1 per proxy alrady.
>                 Additionally, in
>                 >> >such situation ends up seeing
>                 >> >
>                 >> >From PE2  IP1/<no MAC>
>                 >> >
>                 >> >So the answer it gave is not valid anymore all of
>         a sudden.
>                 >> >
>                 >> >--- tony
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 BESS mailing list
>         BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org> <mailto:BESS@ietf.org
>         <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     BESS mailing list
>     BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>
>


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From: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com>
Thread-Topic: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn
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Hi Robert,

Just as Osama pointed out, this draft is to stitch NVO3 tunnel and MPLS VPN=
 Tunnel at DC gateway, it is a transformed option-B defined in RFC4364 whic=
h is used for heterogenious network interworking.

As i have known, currently no hardware supports the heterogenious option-B =
interconnection feature, so we think it's necessary to define the behaviour=
 on DC gateway to provide reference for the industry.



Thanks,

weiguo



________________________________

From: BESS [bess-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Robert Raszuk [robert@raszu=
k.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 1:24
To: Osama Zia
Cc: bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn

Osama,

To be very clear ... I am not stating that this draft is inventing VNIDs ..=
 it is NVO3 group strategy I am questioning here :)

Also - as I am sure you know - if you look at other communities they also h=
ave their own preferences as to tenant demux IDs and encapsulations.

All I am trying to point out that the exact functionality this draft descri=
bes is already available and deployed without need to invent new gateway be=
haviors if you happen to use in your data center one of the open source sol=
utions which uses IP forwarding with 4364 as tenant demux.

Moreover it works fine today with all 4364 inter-as options A, B, C or even=
 D leave alone other less popular flavors like C+/C- ....

Hence IMO one should really think why would we not use it and what other th=
en compliance with NVO3 do we really gain here technically ?

Best,
r.


On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com<mailto:osa=
maz@microsoft.com>> wrote:
Thanks for the clarification Robert.

MPLS has been around for quite a while, there are definitely solutions out =
there like the ones you have mentioned below. However, there are quite a nu=
mber of deployments out there that do not use MPLS. In fact, if you look at=
 the meeting minutes for NVO3 in IETF-91, you will observe that MPLS was de=
ferred to other WGs and that led to new overlay technologies like GUE, GENE=
VE apart from existing VXLAN. BTW=85NVO3 have just adopted them as working =
group documents.

http://tools.ietf.org/wg/nvo3/minutes?item=3Dminutes-91-nvo3.html

I would also like to clarify that VNID is not something we have invented fo=
r the purpose of this draft. It is already out there and we are providing a=
 solution that can bridge these two technologies.


Regards,
Osama


From: rraszuk@gmail.com<mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com> [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com=
<mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 8:49 AM

To: Osama Zia
Cc: bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn

> Are you suggesting to use labels in the CLOS network

Nope ... please ...

Transport of RFC4364 can be realized with IPv4 or IPv6 just fine.

Please see:

MPLS in IP or GRE
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4023

MPLS in UDP
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510

> instead of any other encap mechanism and use inter-as options in their na=
tive form?

Please observe that MPLS in RFC4364 is used just for demux to tenants. Func=
tionally it is identical equivalent to VNID hence inventing new terminology=
 seems in odds with deployed best practices.

MPLS for transport on the other hand which some RFC4364 deployments use has=
 no use in IP based CLOS fabric (of course provided that the underlay IP nu=
mbering is done with a bit consciousness :)

So it is key to understand that transport and tenant demux spaces are compl=
etely orthogonal and while some mix them they do not overlap functionally a=
t all.


Cheers,
R.


On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com<mailto:osa=
maz@microsoft.com>> wrote:
Okay, so help me understand your point of view here.

Are you suggesting to use labels in the CLOS network instead of any other e=
ncap mechanism and use inter-as options in their native form?

Regards,
Osama

From: rraszuk@gmail.com<mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com> [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com=
<mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 7:42 AM

To: Osama Zia
Cc: bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn

Osama,

Yes I have read the draft. It is describing a solution to problem which doe=
s not exist in practice.

Ref: http://www.opencontrail.org/

The crux of the issue you are solving is here:


   Each NVE is a BGP speaker. Operator may configure single and unique

   VNID for each tenant network on all NVEs or configure NVEs to

   locally allocate VNID for each VRF on the NVEs, the VNID is called

   VNID-t.

If you would not mess up RFC4364 with VNIDs and use vanilla MPLS label as a=
 demux you would not require any additional mapping at the ASBRs hence your=
 option B as well as option C would work seamlessly. All over plain IP CLOS=
 fabric + any type of WAN.

That is my point.

Best,
r.



On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com<mailto:osa=
maz@microsoft.com>> wrote:
Robert,

I am not sure if you have read the draft. The discussion here is not about =
using RR. It is about looking at how option B is used in the context of int=
er-as where both sides are not using MPLS. I would argue that in this solut=
ion option-C provides no real benefit. For scaling purposes we are already =
proposing a centralized solution.

Thanks,
Osama


From: rraszuk@gmail.com<mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com> [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com=
<mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 3:03 AM

To: Osama Zia
Cc: bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn

Osama,

To the best of my knowledge RRs are pretty base elements in BGP :)

If you have 1000 of endpoints within any data center please kindly observe =
that it is not only ASBR option B information that they need (even if you w=
ould establish 1000 IBGP vpnv4/6 sessions to such border router.

Such endpoints also need to exchange information between themselves and her=
e again RRs come to the rescue (at least for the time being).

So I recommend to look not at one particular function you are pushing, but =
at entire picture then evaluate the need for RRs likely with RTC or not.

Best,
r.


On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com<mailto:osa=
maz@microsoft.com>> wrote:
I was talking about the base model. You are right that we may solve the sca=
lability problem by introducing RR.

However, with the proposed solution we achieve the same thing without using=
 RR.

Regards,
Osama

From: rraszuk@gmail.com<mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com> [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com=
<mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2015 3:42 PM
To: Osama Zia
Cc: bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn

Hi Osama,

> This would mean the other service provider will need to establish
> EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical.

That assertion is not correct.

Option C for route distribution scaling uses route reflection in each clust=
er therefor eliminating the need to establish more then one (or two for red=
undancy) EBGP sessions between data centers or independent clusters.

Cheers,
R.



On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Osama Zia <osamaz@microsoft.com<mailto:os=
amaz@microsoft.com>> wrote:
Looking at the minutes, I think there wasn=92t enough time left for the dra=
ft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn that a discussion could take place.

I will explain the answer to the question that was asked.

In option C the ASBR-W will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the DC.=
 NVE in some cases could be a ToR and in most cases will be a software gate=
way in the hypervisor. In any case the number of NVEs can run in thousands.=
 This would mean the other service provider will need to establish EBGP ses=
sions possibly in thousands which is not practical. In this scenario Option=
-B will provide the architecture to address the scaling issue.

I would like to request additional comments and call for adoption.


Regards,
Osama





From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org>] On =
Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM
To: bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting


The BESS minutes for IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).  Should you =
want to make changes to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.  T=
he minutes have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which is at:

http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=
=3Dtrue

Sue Hares

_______________________________________________
BESS mailing list
BESS@ietf.org<mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
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<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Hi Robert,</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Just as Osama pointed out, this draft =
is to stitch NVO3 tunnel and MPLS VPN Tunnel at DC gateway, it is a transfo=
rmed option-B defined in RFC4364 which is used for heterogenious network in=
terworking.</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">As i have known, currently no hardware=
 supports the heterogenious option-B interconnection feature, so we think i=
t's necessary to define the behaviour on DC gateway to provide reference fo=
r the industry.</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Thanks,</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">weiguo</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p></p>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<p></p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF471335"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> BESS [bess-bounces@ietf.org] on beha=
lf of Robert Raszuk [robert@raszuk.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 14, 2015 1:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> bess@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Osama,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
To be very clear ... I am not stating that this draft is inventing VNIDs ..=
 it is NVO3 group strategy I am questioning here :)</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Also - as I am sure you know - if you look at other communities they also h=
ave their own preferences as to tenant demux IDs and encapsulations.&nbsp;<=
/div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
All I am trying to point out that the exact functionality this draft descri=
bes is already available and deployed without need to invent new gateway be=
haviors if you happen to use in your data center one of the open source sol=
utions which uses IP forwarding
 with 4364 as tenant demux.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Moreover it works fine today with all 4364 inter-as options A, B, C or even=
 D leave alone other less popular flavors like C&#43;/C- ....</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Hence IMO one should really think why would we not use it and what other th=
en compliance with NVO3 do we really gain here technically ?</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Best,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
r.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Osama Zia <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@micros=
oft.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Thanks for the clarification Robert.<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">MPLS has been around for quite a while, ther=
e are definitely solutions out there like the ones you have mentioned below=
. However, there are quite a number
 of deployments out there that do not use MPLS. In fact, if you look at the=
 meeting minutes for NVO3 in IETF-91, you will observe that MPLS was deferr=
ed to other WGs and that led to new overlay technologies like GUE, GENEVE a=
part from existing VXLAN. BTW=85NVO3
 have just adopted them as working group documents.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/wg/nvo3/min=
utes?item=3Dminutes-91-nvo3.html" target=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/w=
g/nvo3/minutes?item=3Dminutes-91-nvo3.html</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I would also like to clarify that VNID is no=
t something we have invented for the purpose of this draft. It is already o=
ut there and we are providing a solution
 that can bridge these two technologies. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Osama<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif;=
 FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',san=
s-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a=
> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gm=
ail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 13, 2015 8:49 AM</span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn<u></u><u></u></div=
>
</div>
<p></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">&gt; Are you suggesting to use labels in the=
 CLOS network</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u=
></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Nope ... =
please ...&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u=
></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Transport=
 of RFC4364 can be realized with IPv4 or IPv6 just fine.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u=
></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Please se=
e:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u=
></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">MPLS in I=
P or GRE<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4023" targ=
et=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/rfc4023</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u=
></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">MPLS in U=
DP<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510" targ=
et=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/rfc7510</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u=
></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">&gt; instead of any other encap mechanism an=
d use inter-as options in their native form?</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMI=
LY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u=
></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Please ob=
serve that MPLS in RFC4364 is used just for demux to tenants. Functionally =
it is identical equivalent to VNID hence inventing new terminology seems in=
 odds with deployed best practices.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u=
></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">MPLS for =
transport on the other hand which some RFC4364 deployments use has no use i=
n IP based CLOS fabric (of course provided that the underlay IP numbering i=
s done with a bit consciousness :)&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u=
></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">So it is =
key to understand that transport and tenant demux spaces are completely ort=
hogonal and while some mix them they do not overlap functionally at all.&nb=
sp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u=
></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u=
></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Cheers,<b=
r>
R.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><u></u><u=
></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Osama Zia &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt s=
olid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PA=
DDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDI=
NG-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Okay, so help me understand your point of vi=
ew here.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Are you suggesting to use labels in the CLOS=
 network instead of any other encap mechanism and use inter-as options in t=
heir native form?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Osama</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif;=
 FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',san=
s-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
</span><a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">rraszuk@gmail.com</=
span></a><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"=
> [mailto:</span><a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><sp=
an style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">rraszuk@gma=
il.com</span></a><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZ=
E: 11pt">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 13, 2015 7:42 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Osama,</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Yes I hav=
e read the draft. It is describing a solution to problem which does not exi=
st in practice.&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Ref:&nbsp=
;</span><a href=3D"http://www.opencontrail.org/" target=3D"_blank"><span st=
yle=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">http://www.opencontrail.org/</span></a><=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">The crux =
of the issue you are solving is here:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; Each NVE is=
 a BGP speaker. Operator may configure single and unique</span><u></u><u></=
u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; VNID for ea=
ch tenant network on all NVEs or configure NVEs to</span><u></u><u></u></pr=
e>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> &nbsp;&nbsp;locally all=
ocate VNID for each VRF on the NVEs, the VNID is called</span><u></u><u></u=
></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; VNID-t.</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">If you wo=
uld not mess up RFC4364 with VNIDs and use vanilla MPLS label as a demux yo=
u would not require any additional mapping at the ASBRs hence your option B=
 as well as option C would work seamlessly.
 All over plain IP CLOS fabric &#43; any type of WAN.</span><u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">That is m=
y point.&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Best,</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">r.</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Osama Zia &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt s=
olid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PA=
DDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDI=
NG-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Robert,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I am not sure if you have read the draft. Th=
e discussion here is not about using RR. It is about looking at how option =
B is used in the context of inter-as
 where both sides are not using MPLS. I would argue that in this solution o=
ption-C provides no real benefit. For scaling purposes we are already propo=
sing a centralized solution.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Osama</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif;=
 FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',san=
s-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
</span><a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">rraszuk@gmail.com</=
span></a><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"=
> [mailto:</span><a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><sp=
an style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">rraszuk@gma=
il.com</span></a><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZ=
E: 11pt">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 11, 2015 3:03 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Osama,</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">To the be=
st of my knowledge RRs are pretty base elements in BGP :)</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">If you ha=
ve 1000 of endpoints within any data center please kindly observe that it i=
s not only ASBR option B information that they need (even if you would esta=
blish 1000 IBGP vpnv4/6 sessions to
 such border router.&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Such endp=
oints also need to exchange information between themselves and here again R=
Rs come to the rescue (at least for the time being).&nbsp;</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">So I reco=
mmend to look not at one particular function you are pushing, but at entire=
 picture then evaluate the need for RRs likely with RTC or not.&nbsp;</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Best,</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">r.</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Osama Zia &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt s=
olid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PA=
DDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDI=
NG-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I was talking about the base model. You are =
right that we may solve the scalability problem by introducing RR.</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">However, with the proposed solution we achie=
ve the same thing without using RR.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Osama</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif;=
 FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',san=
s-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
</span><a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">rraszuk@gmail.com</=
span></a><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"=
> [mailto:</span><a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><sp=
an style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">rraszuk@gma=
il.com</span></a><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZ=
E: 11pt">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 10, 2015 3:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Osama Zia<br>
<b>Cc:</b> </span><a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">bess@ietf.org<=
/span></a><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt=
"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo3-vpn</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Hi Osama,=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">&gt; This would mean the other service provi=
der will need to&nbsp;establish&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',sans-serif; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">&gt; EBGP sessions possibly in thousands whi=
ch is not practical.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">That asse=
rtion is not correct.&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Option C =
for route distribution scaling uses route reflection in each cluster theref=
or eliminating the need to establish more then one (or two for redundancy) =
EBGP sessions between data centers or
 independent clusters.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Cheers,<b=
r>
R.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"></span><u=
></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Osama Zia &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:osamaz@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">osamaz@microsoft.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt s=
olid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PA=
DDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDI=
NG-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Looking at the minute=
s, I think there wasn=92t enough time left for the draft-hao-bess-inter-nvo=
3-vpn that a discussion could take place.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"></span><u></u><u></u>=
&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">I will explain the an=
swer to the question that was asked.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"></span><u></u><u></u>=
&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">In option C the ASBR-=
W will have to establish EBGP will each NVE in the DC. NVE in some cases co=
uld be a ToR and in most cases will be a software gateway in the hypervisor=
. In any case the number of NVEs can
 run in thousands. This would mean the other service provider will need to =
establish EBGP sessions possibly in thousands which is not practical. In th=
is scenario Option-B will provide the architecture to address the scaling i=
ssue.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"></span><u></u><u></u>=
&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">I would like to reque=
st additional comments and call for adoption.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"></span><u></u><u></u>=
&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"></span><u></u><u></u>=
&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Regards,</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Osama</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; FONT-SIZE=
: 9pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; FONT-SIZE=
: 9pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; FONT-SIZE=
: 9pt"></span><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"></span><u></u><u></u>=
&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"></span><u></u><u></u>=
&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> BESS [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] Minutes for IETF 92 BESS meeting<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt">The BESS minutes for =
IETF 92 session are attached (html, pdf).&nbsp; Should you want to make cha=
nges to the minutes, you may edit the etherpad location.&nbsp; The minutes =
have been upload to the etherpad for BESS 92 which
 is at: </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></span><u></u><u></u>=
&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/not=
es-ietf-92-bess?useMonospaceFont=3Dtrue" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"F=
ONT-SIZE: 9pt">http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-92-bess?use=
MonospaceFont=3Dtrue</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></span><u></u><u></u>=
&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Sue Hares </span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_DD5FC8DE455C3348B94340C0AB5517334F85B928nkgeml501mbschi_--


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Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:25:37 +0200
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org>
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Cc: "Henderickx, Wim \(Wim\)" <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge \(Jorge\)" <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
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Ok I think there are two scenarios.

The original scenario I had in mind was indeed the loopback anycast which
would really not have any issues with arp.

The other scenario is NIC overload with multiple addresses some of them
would be anycast. It is in fact not that uncommon to have an identical VMs
with same IP for robustness without LB. I am not sure if we need to *solve*
it at ARP, but we do need to consider it as a valid case and not react as
far as duplicate address detection is concerned. Again here depending on
the implementation if you put both such VMs say in different VRFs you have
no ARP issue, but anycast works fine.

I think to proceed I would be happy to see those cases just documented in
deployment section of the draft and we move on. I do not think that solving
or even touching IPv4 ARP is needed here at this point.

Or perhaps a different comment to add to the draft would be to mention that
duplicate IPv4 address detection is scoped to the same ARP table (which may
not be the same as same subnet :).

Cheers,
r.




On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org> wrote:

> On 4/15/15 2:53 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>
>> Erik,
>>
>> How about /32 IPv4 anycast addresses with multiple subnet per linux NIC =
?
>> It is typical to be able to overload host networking with same anycast
>> loopbacks.
>>
> I guess "same subnet" isn't sufficient as criteria - "same subnet which
> corresponds to a connected route" would be one way to phrase the constrai=
nt.
>
>>
>> It does not need to be ARP resolved .. the resolution is indirect via
>> connected next hops.
>>
> Yes, that is the key issue.
>
> For instance host routes (/32) and an anycast address on a loopback
> interface works fine in IPv4 and IPv6.
>
>    Erik
>
>
>> Cheers,
>> R.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:48 PM, Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org
>> <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     On 3/31/15 1:10 PM, Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge) wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Robert and Tony,
>>
>>         As Wim mentioned, ipv6 anycast is something that we will add
>>         to the draft in the next rev. There is an easy way to know if
>>         a given proxy-ND entry belongs to an anycast address or not
>>         and disable the duplicate IP detection for those.
>>
>>         The challenge for IPv4 is that I don=E2=80=99t see an easy way t=
o
>>         learn _dynamically_ from access attachment circuits that a
>>         given ipv4 is anycast. Even for default gateways, if they are
>>         integrated in the EVPN PE, we are good, but if they are
>>         external and connected to a MAC-VRF, it is not so clear how to
>>         learn that (unless you learn those entries from the management
>>         interface).
>>
>>     Jorge,
>>
>>     IPv4/ARP doesn't have any support for anycast address on the same
>>     subnet. While IPv6/ND has such support (using the O-flag) the
>>     common anycast deployment for both is to have the anycast
>>     instances deployed on different subnets and, in the case of DNS
>>     servers, in different ISPs.
>>
>>     Thus for IPv4 I think you can assume that the same IP address
>>     appearing with different MAC addresses is either a duplicate IP
>>     address or a case of a host having changed the MAC address on its
>>     NIC. (I don't know if NIC bonding can be configured in a way where
>>     it looks like an IP->MAC change each time there is a failure; if
>>     so that would be a third case.)
>>
>>        Erik
>>
>>
>>         One of the reasons why we have lots of =E2=80=9CSHOULDs=E2=80=9D=
 in the draft
>>         and not =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D is because the implementation has=
 to be
>>         flexible enough to be configured in a different way depending
>>         on the use-case, which is one of the points that Tony mentions
>>         below. In the use-case described at the moment there is no
>>         anycast and duplicate IP detection is very important. We will
>>         add the DC use case in the next rev as suggested by Robert and
>>         others.
>>         Thanks.
>>         Jorge
>>
>>
>>         From: Antoni Przygienda <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>
>>         Date: Monday, March 30, 2015 at 12:12 AM
>>         To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net
>>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net> <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>>, "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)"
>>         <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>
>>         Cc: Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>
>>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>>,
>>         "bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org> <mailto:bess@ietf.org
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>" <bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>, Jorge Rabadan
>>         <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>>
>>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>>
>>         Subject: RE: [bess] ARP ND draft
>>
>>             I=E2=80=99m also skeptical whether IP duplicate detection wo=
uld be
>>         a good
>>             default thing. Especially in case of what I call =E2=80=98al=
iased
>>         default
>>             gateway=E2=80=99 which section 10.1 specifically allows, i.e=
.
>>         default GW
>>             IP address is same but each PE may use a different MAC when
>>             advertising it and consequently responses for same IP with
>>             different ARPs may be seen in the network.  Yes, default GW
>>             ExtComm is there to differentiate so it can be called an
>>         exception
>>             but nevertheless.
>>
>>             I also thought a tad about VRRP but I think the IP duplicate
>>             detection will not apply there, it=E2=80=99s all same IPx->M=
ACx
>>         from all
>>             routers so if anything, it=E2=80=99s more of a MAC move thin=
g.
>>
>>             Generally I think someone who wants a secure, stable eVPN
>>         wants IP
>>             duplicate detection, someone who runs a very dynamic
>>         network with
>>             tons gateways, possibly anycast & floating IPs will
>>         probably not
>>             be too enamored with it.
>>
>>             Thanks
>>
>>             --- tony
>>
>>             //
>>
>>             /There are basically two types of people. People who
>>         accomplish
>>             things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. Th=
e
>>             first group is less crowded.
>>                    <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/
>> marktwain393535.html>/
>>
>>             /~~~ Mark Twain
>>                    <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/
>> marktwain393535.html>/
>>
>>             *From:*rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>
>>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>
>>             [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>] *On
>>         Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk
>>             *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 1:19 AM
>>             *To:* Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>>             *Cc:* Erik Nordmark; Antoni Przygienda; bess@ietf.org
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>             <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>; Rabadan,
>>         Jorge (Jorge)
>>             *Subject:* Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>>
>>             Hi Wim,
>>
>>             > There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am not
>>         ware this is
>>             supported at arp level.
>>
>>             Precisely right. It needs to be documented and addressed
>>         if anyone
>>             is up to proposing automated IP duplicate address
>>         detection and
>>             disabling.
>>
>>             RFC1546 is rather too old to consider here as solution :)
>>
>>             Cheers,
>>
>>             R.
>>
>>             On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:10 AM, Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>>             <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>             <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>             To be clear: RFC4861 section 7.2.7 explains the anycast
>>         behaviour
>>             in IPv6.
>>
>>             I am not aware of such thing at IPv4/ARP level. Do you
>>         have a pointer?
>>
>>             There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am not ware
>>         this is
>>             supported at arp level.
>>
>>             *From: *<Henderickx>, Wim Henderickx
>>             *Date: *Monday 30 March 2015 07:38
>>             *To: *Robert Raszuk
>>             *Cc: *Erik Nordmark, Antoni Przygienda, "bess@ietf.org
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>             <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>", Jorge Rabada=
n
>>
>>
>>             *Subject: *Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>>
>>             At interface level you get dad in most stacks I know.
>>
>>             Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>             On 30 Mar 2015, at 06:45, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net
>>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>>             <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>> wrote=
:
>>
>>                 Hi Wim,
>>
>>                 What makes you say that in IPv4 there is no anycast ? Al=
l
>>                 anycase I have played so far is IPv4 :)
>>
>>                 Cheers,
>>
>>                 r.
>>
>>                 On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>>                 <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>                 We will update the draft to highlight the IPv6 anycast
>>                 behaviour better as pointed out by RObert. In IPv4
>>         there is no
>>                 anycast behaviour and as such there should be one
>>         option possible.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                 On 30/03/15 04:59, "Antoni Przygienda"
>>                 <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>                 >Yes, but of course I brought it up to show that 'the
>>         last one
>>                 simply wins' as suggested by the draft is not enough
>>         IMO. A
>>                 good architecture should probably keep track of what
>>         it served
>>                 as answer and when the answer is invalid or a new,
>>         better one
>>                 exists, provide a GARP.
>>                 >
>>                 >As well, when PE2 sends a newer MAC it may not be a goo=
d
>>                 strategy to serve a GARP if PE1's MAC has already been
>>                 offered. That could lead IMO to e.g. gateway chasing
>>         problems.
>>                 >
>>                 >--- tony
>>                 >
>>                 >
>>                 >There are basically two types of people. People who
>>                 accomplish things, and people who claim to have
>>         accomplished
>>                 things. The first group is less crowded.
>>                 >~~~ Mark Twain
>>                 >
>>                 >
>>                 >> -----Original Message-----
>>                 >> From: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>>                 [mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>]
>>                 >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:01 AM
>>                 >> To: Antoni Przygienda; Erik Nordmark; Rabadan,
>>         Jorge (Jorge)
>>                 >> Cc: bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>>                 >> Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>>                 >>
>>                 >> For this case you should sent a GARP with the new
>>         MAC/IP
>>                 >>
>>                 >>
>>                 >>
>>                 >>
>>                 >> On 25/03/15 18:56, "Antoni Przygienda"
>>                 <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>
>>                 >> wrote:
>>                 >>
>>                 >> >> > b)It is worth explaining what is suggested
>>         behavior if
>>                 eVPN
>>                 >> >> > advertises the same IP with multiple MACs and wh=
at
>>                 happens when
>>                 >> >> > e.g. the served MAC vanishes
>>                 >> >> >
>>                 >> >> Doesn't the EVPN RFC already stating that the rout=
es
>>                 would be
>>                 >> >> withdrawn in that case?
>>                 >> >
>>                 >> >The scenario I had in mind was when eVPN PE receives
>>                 >> >
>>                 >> >From PE2 IP1/M1  and  later
>>                 >> >From PE3 IP1/M2
>>                 >> >
>>                 >> >while having answered with IP1/M1 per proxy alrady.
>>                 Additionally, in
>>                 >> >such situation ends up seeing
>>                 >> >
>>                 >> >From PE2  IP1/<no MAC>
>>                 >> >
>>                 >> >So the answer it gave is not valid anymore all of
>>         a sudden.
>>                 >> >
>>                 >> >--- tony
>>                 _______________________________________________
>>                 BESS mailing list
>>         BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org> <mailto:BESS@ietf.org
>>         <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>>
>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     BESS mailing list
>>     BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">Ok I think there are two scenarios.</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-s=
ize:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:cour=
ier new,monospace;font-size:small">The original scenario I had in mind was =
indeed the loopback anycast which would really not have any issues with arp=
.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,=
monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">The other scenario is NI=
C overload with multiple addresses some of them would be anycast. It is in =
fact not that uncommon to have an identical VMs with same IP for robustness=
 without LB. I am not sure if we need to *solve* it at ARP, but we do need =
to consider it as a valid case and not react as far as duplicate address de=
tection is concerned. Again here depending on the implementation if you put=
 both such VMs say in different VRFs you have no ARP issue, but anycast wor=
ks fine.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:couri=
er new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">I think to procee=
d I would be happy to see those cases just documented in deployment section=
 of the draft and we move on. I do not think that solving or even touching =
IPv4 ARP is needed here at this point.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font=
-size:small">Or perhaps a different comment to add to the draft would be to=
 mention that duplicate IPv4 address detection is scoped to the same ARP ta=
ble (which may not be the same as same subnet :).</div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace=
;font-size:small">Cheers,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">r.</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;f=
ont-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Er=
ik Nordmark <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 4/15/15 2:53 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Erik,<br>
<br>
How about /32 IPv4 anycast addresses with multiple subnet per linux NIC ? I=
t is typical to be able to overload host networking with same anycast loopb=
acks.<br>
</blockquote></span>
I guess &quot;same subnet&quot; isn&#39;t sufficient as criteria - &quot;sa=
me subnet which corresponds to a connected route&quot; would be one way to =
phrase the constraint.<span class=3D""><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
It does not need to be ARP resolved .. the resolution is indirect via conne=
cted next hops.<br>
</blockquote></span>
Yes, that is the key issue.<br>
<br>
For instance host routes (/32) and an anycast address on a loopback interfa=
ce works fine in IPv4 and IPv6.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Erik<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Cheers,<br>
R.<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:48 PM, Erik Nordmark &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nordm=
ark@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"m=
ailto:nordmark@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt;&gt; wrot=
e:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 3/31/15 1:10 PM, Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge) wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Robert and Tony,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As Wim mentioned, ipv6 anycast is something tha=
t we will add<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to the draft in the next rev. There is an easy =
way to know if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a given proxy-ND entry belongs to an anycast ad=
dress or not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and disable the duplicate IP detection for thos=
e.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The challenge for IPv4 is that I don=E2=80=99t =
see an easy way to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 learn _dynamically_ from access attachment circ=
uits that a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 given ipv4 is anycast. Even for default gateway=
s, if they are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 integrated in the EVPN PE, we are good, but if =
they are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 external and connected to a MAC-VRF, it is not =
so clear how to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 learn that (unless you learn those entries from=
 the management<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 interface).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jorge,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 IPv4/ARP doesn&#39;t have any support for anycast address on =
the same<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 subnet. While IPv6/ND has such support (using the O-flag) the=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 common anycast deployment for both is to have the anycast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 instances deployed on different subnets and, in the case of D=
NS<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 servers, in different ISPs.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thus for IPv4 I think you can assume that the same IP address=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 appearing with different MAC addresses is either a duplicate =
IP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 address or a case of a host having changed the MAC address on=
 its<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 NIC. (I don&#39;t know if NIC bonding can be configured in a =
way where<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 it looks like an IP-&gt;MAC change each time there is a failu=
re; if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 so that would be a third case.)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Erik<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 One of the reasons why we have lots of =E2=80=
=9CSHOULDs=E2=80=9D in the draft<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and not =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D is because the i=
mplementation has to be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 flexible enough to be configured in a different=
 way depending<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on the use-case, which is one of the points tha=
t Tony mentions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 below. In the use-case described at the moment =
there is no<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 anycast and duplicate IP detection is very impo=
rtant. We will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 add the DC use case in the next rev as suggeste=
d by Robert and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 others.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jorge<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:a=
ntoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@ericsson=
.<u></u>com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;<br></div></div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a><s=
pan class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date: Monday, March 30, 2015 at 12:12 AM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To: Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@=
raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a><br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net"=
 target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:r=
obert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a><span class=3D""><=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net"=
 target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;, &quot;Henderickx, Wim=
 (Wim)&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lu=
cent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</a><br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a><span class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cc: Erik Nordmark &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nordmar=
k@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:nordmark@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt;<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" =
target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nordmar=
k@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a><span class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:b=
ess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;, Jorge Rabadan<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-luc=
ent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.<u></u>com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alca=
tel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</=
a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alca=
tel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</=
a><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alca=
tel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</=
a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: RE: [bess] ARP ND draft<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m also skeptical whethe=
r IP duplicate detection would be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a good<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 default thing. Especially in case=
 of what I call =E2=80=98aliased<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 default<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 gateway=E2=80=99 which section 10=
.1 specifically allows, i.e.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 default GW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IP address is same but each PE ma=
y use a different MAC when<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 advertising it and consequently r=
esponses for same IP with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 different ARPs may be seen in the=
 network.=C2=A0 Yes, default GW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ExtComm is there to differentiate=
 so it can be called an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 exception<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 but nevertheless.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I also thought a tad about VRRP b=
ut I think the IP duplicate<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 detection will not apply there, i=
t=E2=80=99s all same IPx-&gt;MACx<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 from all<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 routers so if anything, it=E2=80=
=99s more of a MAC move thing.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Generally I think someone who wan=
ts a secure, stable eVPN<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 wants IP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 duplicate detection, someone who =
runs a very dynamic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 network with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tons gateways, possibly anycast &=
amp; floating IPs will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 probably not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be too enamored with it.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --- tony<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 //<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 /There are basically two types of=
 people. People who<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 accomplish<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 things, and people who claim to h=
ave accomplished things. The<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 first group is less crowded.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a=
 href=3D"http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.brainyquote.com/<u></u>quotes/quotes/m/<u></u>m=
arktwain393535.html</a>&gt;/<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 /~~~ Mark Twain<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a=
 href=3D"http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.brainyquote.com/<u></u>quotes/quotes/m/<u></u>m=
arktwain393535.html</a>&gt;/<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *From:*<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br></di=
v></div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rrasz=
uk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"m=
ailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt;] *On<s=
pan class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 1:=
19 AM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *To:* Henderickx, Wim (Wim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Cc:* Erik Nordmark; Antoni Przyg=
ienda; <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;; Rabadan,<span =
class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jorge (Jorge)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Subject:* Re: [bess] ARP ND draf=
t<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Wim,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; There is anycast at IPv4 lev=
el for sure but I am not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ware this is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 supported at arp level.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Precisely right. It needs to be d=
ocumented and addressed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 if anyone<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is up to proposing automated IP d=
uplicate address<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 detection and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 disabling.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC1546 is rather too old to cons=
ider here as solution :)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cheers,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 R.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:10 AM, =
Henderickx, Wim (Wim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderi=
ckx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@alcatel-<u></u>luc=
ent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.=
henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alca=
tel-lucent.com</a><span class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To be clear: RFC4861 section 7.2.=
7 explains the anycast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 behaviour<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in IPv6.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I am not aware of such thing at I=
Pv4/ARP level. Do you<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have a pointer?<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is anycast at IPv4 level fo=
r sure but I am not ware<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 supported at arp level.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *From: *&lt;Henderickx&gt;, Wim H=
enderickx<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Date: *Monday 30 March 2015 07:3=
8<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *To: *Robert Raszuk<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Cc: *Erik Nordmark, Antoni Przyg=
ienda, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.o=
rg</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&quot;, Jorge Ra=
badan<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Subject: *Re: [bess] ARP ND draf=
t<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 At interface level you get dad in=
 most stacks I know.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 30 Mar 2015, at 06:45, Robert =
Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@ra=
szuk.net</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net"=
 target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robe=
rt@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;&g=
t;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Wim,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 What makes you say =
that in IPv4 there is no anycast ? All<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 anycase I have play=
ed so far is IPv4 :)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cheers,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 r.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Sun, Mar 29, 201=
5 at 11:18 PM, Henderickx, Wim (Wim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@alca=
tel-<u></u>lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderi=
ckx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><span class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 We will update the =
draft to highlight the IPv6 anycast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 behaviour better as=
 pointed out by RObert. In IPv4<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 there is no<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 anycast behaviour a=
nd as such there should be one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 option possible.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 30/03/15 04:59, =
&quot;Antoni Przygienda&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@eric=
sson.<u></u>com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygie=
nda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;Yes, but of cou=
rse I brought it up to show that &#39;the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 last one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 simply wins&#39; as=
 suggested by the draft is not enough<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IMO. A<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 good architecture s=
hould probably keep track of what<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it served<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 as answer and when =
the answer is invalid or a new,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 better one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 exists, provide a G=
ARP.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;As well, when P=
E2 sends a newer MAC it may not be a good<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 strategy to serve a=
 GARP if PE1&#39;s MAC has already been<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 offered. That could=
 lead IMO to e.g. gateway chasing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 problems.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;--- tony<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;There are basic=
ally two types of people. People who<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 accomplish things, =
and people who claim to have<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 accomplished<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 things. The first g=
roup is less crowded.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;~~~ Mark Twain<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; -----Origi=
nal Message-----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; From: Hend=
erickx, Wim (Wim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [mailto:<a href=3D"=
mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@=
<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderi=
ckx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Sent: Thur=
sday, March 26, 2015 6:01 AM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; To: Antoni=
 Przygienda; Erik Nordmark; Rabadan,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jorge (Jorge)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Cc: <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<=
a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>=
</div></div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<span class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Subject: R=
e: [bess] ARP ND draft<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; For this c=
ase you should sent a GARP with the new<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MAC/IP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; On 25/03/1=
5 18:56, &quot;Antoni Przygienda&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@eric=
sson.<u></u>com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygie=
nda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a><span class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt; b)It is worth explaining what is suggested<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 behavior if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 eVPN<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt; advertises the same IP with multiple MACs and what<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 happens when<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt; e.g. the served MAC vanishes<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; D=
oesn&#39;t the EVPN RFC already stating that the routes<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 would be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; w=
ithdrawn in that case?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;The sc=
enario I had in mind was when eVPN PE receives<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;From P=
E2 IP1/M1=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 later<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;From P=
E3 IP1/M2<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;while =
having answered with IP1/M1 per proxy alrady.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Additionally, in<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;such s=
ituation ends up seeing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;From P=
E2=C2=A0 IP1/&lt;no MAC&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;So the=
 answer it gave is not valid anymore all of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a sudden.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;--- to=
ny<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ___________________=
___________<u></u>_________________<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BESS mailing list<b=
r></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">BESS@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><span class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/bess" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/bess=
</a><br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 BESS mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@=
ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/bess</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></blockquote><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">
<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
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Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
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On 4/15/15 11:25 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Ok I think there are two scenarios.
>
> The original scenario I had in mind was indeed the loopback anycast 
> which would really not have any issues with arp.
>
> The other scenario is NIC overload with multiple addresses some of 
> them would be anycast. It is in fact not that uncommon to have an 
> identical VMs with same IP for robustness without LB. I am not sure if 
> we need to *solve* it at ARP, but we do need to consider it as a valid 
> case and not react as far as duplicate address detection is concerned. 
> Again here depending on the implementation if you put both such VMs 
> say in different VRFs you have no ARP issue, but anycast works fine.
Robert,
The case of a dual-NIC server is typically solved locally (using e.g., 
multi-chassis LAG for redundancy), and AFAIK the same MAC address is 
used (but I haven't looked at all the flavors of Linux NIC bonding and 
VmWare options).

>
> I think to proceed I would be happy to see those cases just documented 
> in deployment section of the draft and we move on. I do not think that 
> solving or even touching IPv4 ARP is needed here at this point.

Agreed.
>
> Or perhaps a different comment to add to the draft would be to mention 
> that duplicate IPv4 address detection is scoped to the same ARP table 
> (which may not be the same as same subnet :).

That seems like a useful addition (if it isn't already in this or some 
other document).

    Erik

>
> Cheers,
> r.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org 
> <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>> wrote:
>
>     On 4/15/15 2:53 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>
>         Erik,
>
>         How about /32 IPv4 anycast addresses with multiple subnet per
>         linux NIC ? It is typical to be able to overload host
>         networking with same anycast loopbacks.
>
>     I guess "same subnet" isn't sufficient as criteria - "same subnet
>     which corresponds to a connected route" would be one way to phrase
>     the constraint.
>
>
>         It does not need to be ARP resolved .. the resolution is
>         indirect via connected next hops.
>
>     Yes, that is the key issue.
>
>     For instance host routes (/32) and an anycast address on a
>     loopback interface works fine in IPv4 and IPv6.
>
>        Erik
>
>
>         Cheers,
>         R.
>
>
>
>
>         On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:48 PM, Erik Nordmark
>         <nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>> wrote:
>
>             On 3/31/15 1:10 PM, Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge) wrote:
>
>                 Hi Robert and Tony,
>
>                 As Wim mentioned, ipv6 anycast is something that we
>         will add
>                 to the draft in the next rev. There is an easy way to
>         know if
>                 a given proxy-ND entry belongs to an anycast address
>         or not
>                 and disable the duplicate IP detection for those.
>
>                 The challenge for IPv4 is that I don’t see an easy way to
>                 learn _dynamically_ from access attachment circuits that a
>                 given ipv4 is anycast. Even for default gateways, if
>         they are
>                 integrated in the EVPN PE, we are good, but if they are
>                 external and connected to a MAC-VRF, it is not so
>         clear how to
>                 learn that (unless you learn those entries from the
>         management
>                 interface).
>
>             Jorge,
>
>             IPv4/ARP doesn't have any support for anycast address on
>         the same
>             subnet. While IPv6/ND has such support (using the O-flag) the
>             common anycast deployment for both is to have the anycast
>             instances deployed on different subnets and, in the case
>         of DNS
>             servers, in different ISPs.
>
>             Thus for IPv4 I think you can assume that the same IP address
>             appearing with different MAC addresses is either a
>         duplicate IP
>             address or a case of a host having changed the MAC address
>         on its
>             NIC. (I don't know if NIC bonding can be configured in a
>         way where
>             it looks like an IP->MAC change each time there is a
>         failure; if
>             so that would be a third case.)
>
>                Erik
>
>
>                 One of the reasons why we have lots of “SHOULDs” in
>         the draft
>                 and not “MUST” is because the implementation has to be
>                 flexible enough to be configured in a different way
>         depending
>                 on the use-case, which is one of the points that Tony
>         mentions
>                 below. In the use-case described at the moment there is no
>                 anycast and duplicate IP detection is very important.
>         We will
>                 add the DC use case in the next rev as suggested by
>         Robert and
>                 others.
>                 Thanks.
>                 Jorge
>
>
>                 From: Antoni Przygienda
>         <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>>
>                 Date: Monday, March 30, 2015 at 12:12 AM
>                 To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>                 <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>                 <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>>>, "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)"
>                 <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>>
>                 Cc: Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org> <mailto:nordmark@acm.org
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>
>                 <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>>>,
>                 "bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>"
>         <bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org> <mailto:bess@ietf.org
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>>, Jorge Rabadan
>                 <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                 <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
>
>                 <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>>>
>                 Subject: RE: [bess] ARP ND draft
>
>                     I’m also skeptical whether IP duplicate detection
>         would be
>                 a good
>                     default thing. Especially in case of what I call
>         ‘aliased
>                 default
>                     gateway’ which section 10.1 specifically allows, i.e.
>                 default GW
>                     IP address is same but each PE may use a different
>         MAC when
>                     advertising it and consequently responses for same
>         IP with
>                     different ARPs may be seen in the network.  Yes,
>         default GW
>                     ExtComm is there to differentiate so it can be
>         called an
>                 exception
>                     but nevertheless.
>
>                     I also thought a tad about VRRP but I think the IP
>         duplicate
>                     detection will not apply there, it’s all same
>         IPx->MACx
>                 from all
>                     routers so if anything, it’s more of a MAC move thing.
>
>                     Generally I think someone who wants a secure,
>         stable eVPN
>                 wants IP
>                     duplicate detection, someone who runs a very dynamic
>                 network with
>                     tons gateways, possibly anycast & floating IPs will
>                 probably not
>                     be too enamored with it.
>
>                     Thanks
>
>                     --- tony
>
>                     //
>
>                     /There are basically two types of people. People who
>                 accomplish
>                     things, and people who claim to have accomplished
>         things. The
>                     first group is less crowded.
>                          
>          <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html>/
>
>                     /~~~ Mark Twain
>                          
>          <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html>/
>
>                     *From:*rraszuk@gmail.com
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com> <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>
>                 <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>>
>                     [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com> <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>] *On
>                 Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk
>                     *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 1:19 AM
>                     *To:* Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>                     *Cc:* Erik Nordmark; Antoni Przygienda;
>         bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                     <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>; Rabadan,
>                 Jorge (Jorge)
>                     *Subject:* Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>
>                     Hi Wim,
>
>                     > There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am not
>                 ware this is
>                     supported at arp level.
>
>                     Precisely right. It needs to be documented and
>         addressed
>                 if anyone
>                     is up to proposing automated IP duplicate address
>                 detection and
>                     disabling.
>
>                     RFC1546 is rather too old to consider here as
>         solution :)
>
>                     Cheers,
>
>                     R.
>
>                     On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:10 AM, Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>                     <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                     <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>> wrote:
>
>                     To be clear: RFC4861 section 7.2.7 explains the
>         anycast
>                 behaviour
>                     in IPv6.
>
>                     I am not aware of such thing at IPv4/ARP level. Do you
>                 have a pointer?
>
>                     There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am
>         not ware
>                 this is
>                     supported at arp level.
>
>                     *From: *<Henderickx>, Wim Henderickx
>                     *Date: *Monday 30 March 2015 07:38
>                     *To: *Robert Raszuk
>                     *Cc: *Erik Nordmark, Antoni Przygienda,
>         "bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                     <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>", Jorge Rabadan
>
>
>                     *Subject: *Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>
>                     At interface level you get dad in most stacks I know.
>
>                     Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>                     On 30 Mar 2015, at 06:45, Robert Raszuk
>         <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>                 <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>
>                     <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net> <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>>> wrote:
>
>                         Hi Wim,
>
>                         What makes you say that in IPv4 there is no
>         anycast ? All
>                         anycase I have played so far is IPv4 :)
>
>                         Cheers,
>
>                         r.
>
>                         On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Henderickx,
>         Wim (Wim)
>                         <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>> wrote:
>
>                         We will update the draft to highlight the IPv6
>         anycast
>                         behaviour better as pointed out by RObert. In IPv4
>                 there is no
>                         anycast behaviour and as such there should be one
>                 option possible.
>
>
>
>
>                         On 30/03/15 04:59, "Antoni Przygienda"
>                         <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>                         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>> wrote:
>
>                         >Yes, but of course I brought it up to show
>         that 'the
>                 last one
>                         simply wins' as suggested by the draft is not
>         enough
>                 IMO. A
>                         good architecture should probably keep track
>         of what
>                 it served
>                         as answer and when the answer is invalid or a new,
>                 better one
>                         exists, provide a GARP.
>                         >
>                         >As well, when PE2 sends a newer MAC it may
>         not be a good
>                         strategy to serve a GARP if PE1's MAC has
>         already been
>                         offered. That could lead IMO to e.g. gateway
>         chasing
>                 problems.
>                         >
>                         >--- tony
>                         >
>                         >
>                         >There are basically two types of people.
>         People who
>                         accomplish things, and people who claim to have
>                 accomplished
>                         things. The first group is less crowded.
>                         >~~~ Mark Twain
>                         >
>                         >
>                         >> -----Original Message-----
>                         >> From: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>                         [mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>]
>                         >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:01 AM
>                         >> To: Antoni Przygienda; Erik Nordmark; Rabadan,
>                 Jorge (Jorge)
>                         >> Cc: bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>
>                         >> Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>                         >>
>                         >> For this case you should sent a GARP with
>         the new
>                 MAC/IP
>                         >>
>                         >>
>                         >>
>                         >>
>                         >> On 25/03/15 18:56, "Antoni Przygienda"
>                         <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>                         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>>
>                         >> wrote:
>                         >>
>                         >> >> > b)It is worth explaining what is suggested
>                 behavior if
>                         eVPN
>                         >> >> > advertises the same IP with multiple
>         MACs and what
>                         happens when
>                         >> >> > e.g. the served MAC vanishes
>                         >> >> >
>                         >> >> Doesn't the EVPN RFC already stating
>         that the routes
>                         would be
>                         >> >> withdrawn in that case?
>                         >> >
>                         >> >The scenario I had in mind was when eVPN
>         PE receives
>                         >> >
>                         >> >From PE2 IP1/M1  and  later
>                         >> >From PE3 IP1/M2
>                         >> >
>                         >> >while having answered with IP1/M1 per
>         proxy alrady.
>                         Additionally, in
>                         >> >such situation ends up seeing
>                         >> >
>                         >> >From PE2  IP1/<no MAC>
>                         >> >
>                         >> >So the answer it gave is not valid anymore
>         all of
>                 a sudden.
>                         >> >
>                         >> >--- tony
>                         _______________________________________________
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org>
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Cc: "Henderickx, Wim \(Wim\)" <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge \(Jorge\)" <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
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Hi Erik,

Just to clarify .. none of my comments where about dual NIC servers.
Address overload in linux happens on single NIC (unlike in good routers :))

Cheers,
R.

On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 10:35 PM, Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org> wrote:

> On 4/15/15 11:25 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>
>> Ok I think there are two scenarios.
>>
>> The original scenario I had in mind was indeed the loopback anycast whic=
h
>> would really not have any issues with arp.
>>
>> The other scenario is NIC overload with multiple addresses some of them
>> would be anycast. It is in fact not that uncommon to have an identical V=
Ms
>> with same IP for robustness without LB. I am not sure if we need to *sol=
ve*
>> it at ARP, but we do need to consider it as a valid case and not react a=
s
>> far as duplicate address detection is concerned. Again here depending on
>> the implementation if you put both such VMs say in different VRFs you ha=
ve
>> no ARP issue, but anycast works fine.
>>
> Robert,
> The case of a dual-NIC server is typically solved locally (using e.g.,
> multi-chassis LAG for redundancy), and AFAIK the same MAC address is used
> (but I haven't looked at all the flavors of Linux NIC bonding and VmWare
> options).
>
>
>> I think to proceed I would be happy to see those cases just documented i=
n
>> deployment section of the draft and we move on. I do not think that solv=
ing
>> or even touching IPv4 ARP is needed here at this point.
>>
>
> Agreed.
>
>>
>> Or perhaps a different comment to add to the draft would be to mention
>> that duplicate IPv4 address detection is scoped to the same ARP table
>> (which may not be the same as same subnet :).
>>
>
> That seems like a useful addition (if it isn't already in this or some
> other document).
>
>    Erik
>
>
>> Cheers,
>> r.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org
>> <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     On 4/15/15 2:53 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>>
>>         Erik,
>>
>>         How about /32 IPv4 anycast addresses with multiple subnet per
>>         linux NIC ? It is typical to be able to overload host
>>         networking with same anycast loopbacks.
>>
>>     I guess "same subnet" isn't sufficient as criteria - "same subnet
>>     which corresponds to a connected route" would be one way to phrase
>>     the constraint.
>>
>>
>>         It does not need to be ARP resolved .. the resolution is
>>         indirect via connected next hops.
>>
>>     Yes, that is the key issue.
>>
>>     For instance host routes (/32) and an anycast address on a
>>     loopback interface works fine in IPv4 and IPv6.
>>
>>        Erik
>>
>>
>>         Cheers,
>>         R.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:48 PM, Erik Nordmark
>>         <nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>
>>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>> wrote:
>>
>>             On 3/31/15 1:10 PM, Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge) wrote:
>>
>>                 Hi Robert and Tony,
>>
>>                 As Wim mentioned, ipv6 anycast is something that we
>>         will add
>>                 to the draft in the next rev. There is an easy way to
>>         know if
>>                 a given proxy-ND entry belongs to an anycast address
>>         or not
>>                 and disable the duplicate IP detection for those.
>>
>>                 The challenge for IPv4 is that I don=E2=80=99t see an ea=
sy way to
>>                 learn _dynamically_ from access attachment circuits that=
 a
>>                 given ipv4 is anycast. Even for default gateways, if
>>         they are
>>                 integrated in the EVPN PE, we are good, but if they are
>>                 external and connected to a MAC-VRF, it is not so
>>         clear how to
>>                 learn that (unless you learn those entries from the
>>         management
>>                 interface).
>>
>>             Jorge,
>>
>>             IPv4/ARP doesn't have any support for anycast address on
>>         the same
>>             subnet. While IPv6/ND has such support (using the O-flag) th=
e
>>             common anycast deployment for both is to have the anycast
>>             instances deployed on different subnets and, in the case
>>         of DNS
>>             servers, in different ISPs.
>>
>>             Thus for IPv4 I think you can assume that the same IP addres=
s
>>             appearing with different MAC addresses is either a
>>         duplicate IP
>>             address or a case of a host having changed the MAC address
>>         on its
>>             NIC. (I don't know if NIC bonding can be configured in a
>>         way where
>>             it looks like an IP->MAC change each time there is a
>>         failure; if
>>             so that would be a third case.)
>>
>>                Erik
>>
>>
>>                 One of the reasons why we have lots of =E2=80=9CSHOULDs=
=E2=80=9D in
>>         the draft
>>                 and not =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D is because the implementa=
tion has to be
>>                 flexible enough to be configured in a different way
>>         depending
>>                 on the use-case, which is one of the points that Tony
>>         mentions
>>                 below. In the use-case described at the moment there is =
no
>>                 anycast and duplicate IP detection is very important.
>>         We will
>>                 add the DC use case in the next rev as suggested by
>>         Robert and
>>                 others.
>>                 Thanks.
>>                 Jorge
>>
>>
>>                 From: Antoni Przygienda
>>         <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>>
>>                 Date: Monday, March 30, 2015 at 12:12 AM
>>                 To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net
>>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>>                 <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>
>>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>>                 <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>>>, "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)"
>>                 <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>>
>>                 Cc: Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org
>>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org> <mailto:nordmark@acm.org
>>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>
>>                 <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>
>>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>>>,
>>                 "bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>"
>>
>>         <bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org> <mailto:bess@ietf.org
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>>, Jorge Rabadan
>>                 <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>                 <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>>                 <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>
>>                 <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>>>
>>                 Subject: RE: [bess] ARP ND draft
>>
>>                     I=E2=80=99m also skeptical whether IP duplicate dete=
ction
>>         would be
>>                 a good
>>                     default thing. Especially in case of what I call
>>         =E2=80=98aliased
>>                 default
>>                     gateway=E2=80=99 which section 10.1 specifically all=
ows, i.e.
>>                 default GW
>>                     IP address is same but each PE may use a different
>>         MAC when
>>                     advertising it and consequently responses for same
>>         IP with
>>                     different ARPs may be seen in the network.  Yes,
>>         default GW
>>                     ExtComm is there to differentiate so it can be
>>         called an
>>                 exception
>>                     but nevertheless.
>>
>>                     I also thought a tad about VRRP but I think the IP
>>         duplicate
>>                     detection will not apply there, it=E2=80=99s all sam=
e
>>         IPx->MACx
>>                 from all
>>                     routers so if anything, it=E2=80=99s more of a MAC m=
ove thing.
>>
>>                     Generally I think someone who wants a secure,
>>         stable eVPN
>>                 wants IP
>>                     duplicate detection, someone who runs a very dynamic
>>                 network with
>>                     tons gateways, possibly anycast & floating IPs will
>>                 probably not
>>                     be too enamored with it.
>>
>>                     Thanks
>>
>>                     --- tony
>>
>>                     //
>>
>>                     /There are basically two types of people. People who
>>                 accomplish
>>                     things, and people who claim to have accomplished
>>         things. The
>>                     first group is less crowded.
>>                                   <http://www.brainyquote.com/
>> quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html>/
>>
>>                     /~~~ Mark Twain
>>                                   <http://www.brainyquote.com/
>> quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html>/
>>
>>                     *From:*rraszuk@gmail.com
>>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com> <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com
>>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>
>>                 <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>
>>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>>
>>                     [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com
>>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com> <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com
>>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>] *On
>>                 Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk
>>                     *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 1:19 AM
>>                     *To:* Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>>                     *Cc:* Erik Nordmark; Antoni Przygienda;
>>         bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>>                     <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>; Rabadan,
>>                 Jorge (Jorge)
>>                     *Subject:* Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>>
>>                     Hi Wim,
>>
>>                     > There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am n=
ot
>>                 ware this is
>>                     supported at arp level.
>>
>>                     Precisely right. It needs to be documented and
>>         addressed
>>                 if anyone
>>                     is up to proposing automated IP duplicate address
>>                 detection and
>>                     disabling.
>>
>>                     RFC1546 is rather too old to consider here as
>>         solution :)
>>
>>                     Cheers,
>>
>>                     R.
>>
>>                     On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:10 AM, Henderickx, Wim (Wi=
m)
>>                     <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>>                     <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>> wrote:
>>
>>                     To be clear: RFC4861 section 7.2.7 explains the
>>         anycast
>>                 behaviour
>>                     in IPv6.
>>
>>                     I am not aware of such thing at IPv4/ARP level. Do y=
ou
>>                 have a pointer?
>>
>>                     There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am
>>         not ware
>>                 this is
>>                     supported at arp level.
>>
>>                     *From: *<Henderickx>, Wim Henderickx
>>                     *Date: *Monday 30 March 2015 07:38
>>                     *To: *Robert Raszuk
>>                     *Cc: *Erik Nordmark, Antoni Przygienda,
>>         "bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>>                     <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>", Jorge Rabadan
>>
>>
>>                     *Subject: *Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>>
>>                     At interface level you get dad in most stacks I know=
.
>>
>>                     Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>                     On 30 Mar 2015, at 06:45, Robert Raszuk
>>         <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>>                 <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>
>>                     <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net> <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>>> wrote:
>>
>>                         Hi Wim,
>>
>>                         What makes you say that in IPv4 there is no
>>         anycast ? All
>>                         anycase I have played so far is IPv4 :)
>>
>>                         Cheers,
>>
>>                         r.
>>
>>                         On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Henderickx,
>>         Wim (Wim)
>>                         <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>> wrote:
>>
>>                         We will update the draft to highlight the IPv6
>>         anycast
>>                         behaviour better as pointed out by RObert. In IP=
v4
>>                 there is no
>>                         anycast behaviour and as such there should be on=
e
>>                 option possible.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                         On 30/03/15 04:59, "Antoni Przygienda"
>>                         <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>>                         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>>
>>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>> wrote:
>>
>>                         >Yes, but of course I brought it up to show
>>         that 'the
>>                 last one
>>                         simply wins' as suggested by the draft is not
>>         enough
>>                 IMO. A
>>                         good architecture should probably keep track
>>         of what
>>                 it served
>>                         as answer and when the answer is invalid or a ne=
w,
>>                 better one
>>                         exists, provide a GARP.
>>                         >
>>                         >As well, when PE2 sends a newer MAC it may
>>         not be a good
>>                         strategy to serve a GARP if PE1's MAC has
>>         already been
>>                         offered. That could lead IMO to e.g. gateway
>>         chasing
>>                 problems.
>>                         >
>>                         >--- tony
>>                         >
>>                         >
>>                         >There are basically two types of people.
>>         People who
>>                         accomplish things, and people who claim to have
>>                 accomplished
>>                         things. The first group is less crowded.
>>                         >~~~ Mark Twain
>>                         >
>>                         >
>>                         >> -----Original Message-----
>>                         >> From: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>>                         [mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>]
>>                         >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:01 AM
>>                         >> To: Antoni Przygienda; Erik Nordmark; Rabadan=
,
>>                 Jorge (Jorge)
>>                         >> Cc: bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>
>>                         >> Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>>                         >>
>>                         >> For this case you should sent a GARP with
>>         the new
>>                 MAC/IP
>>                         >>
>>                         >>
>>                         >>
>>                         >>
>>                         >> On 25/03/15 18:56, "Antoni Przygienda"
>>                         <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>>                         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>>
>>                         >> wrote:
>>                         >>
>>                         >> >> > b)It is worth explaining what is suggest=
ed
>>                 behavior if
>>                         eVPN
>>                         >> >> > advertises the same IP with multiple
>>         MACs and what
>>                         happens when
>>                         >> >> > e.g. the served MAC vanishes
>>                         >> >> >
>>                         >> >> Doesn't the EVPN RFC already stating
>>         that the routes
>>                         would be
>>                         >> >> withdrawn in that case?
>>                         >> >
>>                         >> >The scenario I had in mind was when eVPN
>>         PE receives
>>                         >> >
>>                         >> >From PE2 IP1/M1  and  later
>>                         >> >From PE3 IP1/M2
>>                         >> >
>>                         >> >while having answered with IP1/M1 per
>>         proxy alrady.
>>                         Additionally, in
>>                         >> >such situation ends up seeing
>>                         >> >
>>                         >> >From PE2  IP1/<no MAC>
>>                         >> >
>>                         >> >So the answer it gave is not valid anymore
>>         all of
>>                 a sudden.
>>                         >> >
>>                         >> >--- tony
>>                         _______________________________________________
>>                         BESS mailing list
>>         BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org> <mailto:BESS@ietf.org
>>         <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>> <mailto:BESS@ietf.org
>>         <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
>>                 <mailto:BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>>>
>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             BESS mailing list
>>         BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org> <mailto:BESS@ietf.org
>>         <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>>
>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     BESS mailing list
>>     BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>
>>
>>
>

--001a1133220220ea220513dd72ac
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">Hi Erik,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size=
:small">Just to clarify .. none of my comments where about dual NIC servers=
. Address overload in linux happens on single NIC (unlike in good routers :=
))</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monos=
pace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">Cheers,<br>R.</div></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 =
at 10:35 PM, Erik Nordmark <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark=
@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 4/15/15 11:25 PM, Robert Rasz=
uk wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Ok I think there are two scenarios.<br>
<br>
The original scenario I had in mind was indeed the loopback anycast which w=
ould really not have any issues with arp.<br>
<br>
The other scenario is NIC overload with multiple addresses some of them wou=
ld be anycast. It is in fact not that uncommon to have an identical VMs wit=
h same IP for robustness without LB. I am not sure if we need to *solve* it=
 at ARP, but we do need to consider it as a valid case and not react as far=
 as duplicate address detection is concerned. Again here depending on the i=
mplementation if you put both such VMs say in different VRFs you have no AR=
P issue, but anycast works fine.<br>
</blockquote></span>
Robert,<br>
The case of a dual-NIC server is typically solved locally (using e.g., mult=
i-chassis LAG for redundancy), and AFAIK the same MAC address is used (but =
I haven&#39;t looked at all the flavors of Linux NIC bonding and VmWare opt=
ions).<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I think to proceed I would be happy to see those cases just documented in d=
eployment section of the draft and we move on. I do not think that solving =
or even touching IPv4 ARP is needed here at this point.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Agreed.<span class=3D""><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Or perhaps a different comment to add to the draft would be to mention that=
 duplicate IPv4 address detection is scoped to the same ARP table (which ma=
y not be the same as same subnet :).<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
That seems like a useful addition (if it isn&#39;t already in this or some =
other document).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Erik<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Cheers,<br>
r.<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Erik Nordmark &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nordm=
ark@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"m=
ailto:nordmark@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt;&gt; wrot=
e:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 4/15/15 2:53 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Erik,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 How about /32 IPv4 anycast addresses with multi=
ple subnet per<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 linux NIC ? It is typical to be able to overloa=
d host<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 networking with same anycast loopbacks.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I guess &quot;same subnet&quot; isn&#39;t sufficient as crite=
ria - &quot;same subnet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 which corresponds to a connected route&quot; would be one way=
 to phrase<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the constraint.<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 It does not need to be ARP resolved .. the reso=
lution is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 indirect via connected next hops.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yes, that is the key issue.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For instance host routes (/32) and an anycast address on a<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 loopback interface works fine in IPv4 and IPv6.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Erik<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cheers,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 R.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:48 PM, Erik Nordmark=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" target=
=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.=
org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt;<br></span><div><div class=
=3D"h5">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" =
target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nordmar=
k@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 3/31/15 1:10 PM, Rabadan, Jorg=
e (Jorge) wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Robert and Tony,=
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As Wim mentioned, i=
pv6 anycast is something that we<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 will add<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to the draft in the=
 next rev. There is an easy way to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 know if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a given proxy-ND en=
try belongs to an anycast address<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 or not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and disable the dup=
licate IP detection for those.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The challenge for I=
Pv4 is that I don=E2=80=99t see an easy way to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 learn _dynamically_=
 from access attachment circuits that a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 given ipv4 is anyca=
st. Even for default gateways, if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 they are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 integrated in the E=
VPN PE, we are good, but if they are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 external and connec=
ted to a MAC-VRF, it is not so<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 clear how to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 learn that (unless =
you learn those entries from the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 management<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 interface).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jorge,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IPv4/ARP doesn&#39;t have any sup=
port for anycast address on<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the same<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 subnet. While IPv6/ND has such su=
pport (using the O-flag) the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 common anycast deployment for bot=
h is to have the anycast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 instances deployed on different s=
ubnets and, in the case<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of DNS<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 servers, in different ISPs.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thus for IPv4 I think you can ass=
ume that the same IP address<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 appearing with different MAC addr=
esses is either a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 duplicate IP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 address or a case of a host havin=
g changed the MAC address<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on its<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 NIC. (I don&#39;t know if NIC bon=
ding can be configured in a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 way where<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it looks like an IP-&gt;MAC chang=
e each time there is a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 failure; if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 so that would be a third case.)<b=
r>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Erik<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 One of the reasons =
why we have lots of =E2=80=9CSHOULDs=E2=80=9D in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the draft<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and not =E2=80=9CMU=
ST=E2=80=9D is because the implementation has to be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 flexible enough to =
be configured in a different way<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 depending<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on the use-case, wh=
ich is one of the points that Tony<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mentions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 below. In the use-c=
ase described at the moment there is no<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 anycast and duplica=
te IP detection is very important.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 We will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 add the DC use case=
 in the next rev as suggested by<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Robert and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 others.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jorge<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Antoni Przygi=
enda<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsso=
n.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@ericsson.<u></u>com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygie=
nda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygie=
nda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygie=
nda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date: Monday, March=
 30, 2015 at 12:12 AM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To: Robert Raszuk &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net=
</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net"=
 target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a> &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.=
net</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net"=
 target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rober=
t@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net"=
 target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;, &quot;Henderickx,=
 Wim (Wim)&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@alca=
tel-<u></u>lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderi=
ckx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;<br></div></div><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderi=
ckx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderi=
ckx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cc: Erik Nordmark &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</=
a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" =
target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nor=
dmark@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" =
target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a> &lt;mai=
lto:<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org<=
/a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nordmark@acm.org" =
target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nordmar=
k@acm.org" target=3D"_blank">nordmark@acm.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a=
 href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&quot;<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a=
 href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;, Jorge Rabadan<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@alcate=
l-lucent.<u></u>com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alca=
tel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</=
a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabada=
n@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alca=
tel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</=
a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabada=
n@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alca=
tel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</=
a>&gt;<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabada=
n@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alca=
tel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</=
a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: RE: [bess]=
 ARP ND draft<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I=E2=
=80=99m also skeptical whether IP duplicate detection<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 would be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a good<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 defau=
lt thing. Especially in case of what I call<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=98aliased<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 default<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 gatew=
ay=E2=80=99 which section 10.1 specifically allows, i.e.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 default GW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IP ad=
dress is same but each PE may use a different<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MAC when<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 adver=
tising it and consequently responses for same<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IP with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 diffe=
rent ARPs may be seen in the network.=C2=A0 Yes,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 default GW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ExtCo=
mm is there to differentiate so it can be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 called an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 exception<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 but n=
evertheless.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I als=
o thought a tad about VRRP but I think the IP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 duplicate<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 detec=
tion will not apply there, it=E2=80=99s all same<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IPx-&gt;MACx<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 from all<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 route=
rs so if anything, it=E2=80=99s more of a MAC move thing.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gener=
ally I think someone who wants a secure,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 stable eVPN<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 wants IP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 dupli=
cate detection, someone who runs a very dynamic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 network with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tons =
gateways, possibly anycast &amp; floating IPs will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 probably not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be to=
o enamored with it.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank=
s<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --- t=
ony<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 //<br=
>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 /Ther=
e are basically two types of people. People who<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 accomplish<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 thing=
s, and people who claim to have accomplished<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 things. The<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 first=
 group is less crowded.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"http://www.bra=
inyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.brainyquote.com/<u></u>quotes/quotes/m/<u></u>marktwain393535.html</a>=
&gt;/<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 /~~~ =
Mark Twain<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"http://www.bra=
inyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.brainyquote.com/<u></u>quotes/quotes/m/<u></u>marktwain393535.html</a>=
&gt;/<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *From=
:*<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com<=
/a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:r=
raszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rrasz=
uk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [mail=
to:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com=
</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:r=
raszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;] *On<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Behalf Of *Robert R=
aszuk<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Sent=
:* Monday, March 30, 2015 1:19 AM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *To:*=
 Henderickx, Wim (Wim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Cc:*=
 Erik Nordmark; Antoni Przygienda;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a=
 href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> =
&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;; Rabadan,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jorge (Jorge)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Subj=
ect:* Re: [bess] ARP ND draft<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Wi=
m,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; =
There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ware this is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 suppo=
rted at arp level.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Preci=
sely right. It needs to be documented and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 addressed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 if anyone<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is up=
 to proposing automated IP duplicate address<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 detection and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 disab=
ling.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC15=
46 is rather too old to consider here as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 solution :)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cheer=
s,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 R.<br=
>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Mo=
n, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:10 AM, Henderickx, Wim (Wim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.h=
enderickx@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderi=
ckx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;<br></div></div><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank=
">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderi=
ckx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To be=
 clear: RFC4861 section 7.2.7 explains the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 anycast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 behaviour<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in IP=
v6.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I am =
not aware of such thing at IPv4/ARP level. Do you<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have a pointer?<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 There=
 is anycast at IPv4 level for sure but I am<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 not ware<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 suppo=
rted at arp level.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *From=
: *&lt;Henderickx&gt;, Wim Henderickx<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Date=
: *Monday 30 March 2015 07:38<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *To: =
*Robert Raszuk<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Cc: =
*Erik Nordmark, Antoni Przygienda,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a=
 href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<=
br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> =
&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a>&gt;<span class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;, Jorge Rabadan<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Subj=
ect: *Re: [bess] ARP ND draft<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 At in=
terface level you get dad in most stacks I know.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sent =
from my iPhone<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 30=
 Mar 2015, at 06:45, Robert Raszuk<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=
=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszu=
k.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a> &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.=
net</a>&gt;&gt;<br></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.=
net</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net"=
 target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:r=
obert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a><br></span><span c=
lass=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net"=
 target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Wim,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 What makes you say that in IPv4 there is no<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 anycast ? All<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 anycase I have played so far is IPv4 :)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Cheers,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 r.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Henderickx,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wim (Wim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=
=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@alcatel-<u></u>lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderi=
ckx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;<br></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" =
target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderi=
ckx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 We will update the draft to highlight the IPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 anycast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 behaviour better as pointed out by RObert. In IPv4<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 there is no<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 anycast behaviour and as such there should be one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 option possible.<br=
>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 On 30/03/15 04:59, &quot;Antoni Przygienda&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"=
_blank">antoni.przygienda@ericsson.<u></u>com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygie=
nda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;&gt;<br></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygie=
nda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a><br></span><div><div class=3D"h5">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;Yes, but of course I brought it up to show<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that &#39;the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 last one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 simply wins&#39; as suggested by the draft is not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 enough<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IMO. A<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 good architecture should probably keep track<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of what<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it served<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 as answer and when the answer is invalid or a new,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 better one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 exists, provide a GARP.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;As well, when PE2 sends a newer MAC it may<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 not be a good<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 strategy to serve a GARP if PE1&#39;s MAC has<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 already been<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 offered. That could lead IMO to e.g. gateway<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 chasing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 problems.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;--- tony<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;There are basically two types of people.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 People who<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 accomplish things, and people who claim to have<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 accomplished<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 things. The first group is less crowded.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;~~~ Mark Twain<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; From: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderi=
ckx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" =
target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderi=
ckx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:wim.henderickx@alc=
atel-lucent.com" target=3D"_blank">wim.henderickx@<u></u>alcatel-lucent.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:01 AM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; To: Antoni Przygienda; Erik Nordmark; Rabadan,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jorge (Jorge)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br></div></div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a=
 href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<span=
 class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; For this case you should sent a GARP with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the new<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MAC/IP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; On 25/03/15 18:56, &quot;Antoni Przygienda&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"=
_blank">antoni.przygienda@ericsson.<u></u>com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygie=
nda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;&gt;<br></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygie=
nda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a><br></span><div><div class=3D"h5">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:antoni.przygienda@=
ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">antoni.przygienda@<u></u>ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; b)It is worth explaining what is suggeste=
d<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 behavior if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 eVPN<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; advertises the same IP with multiple<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MACs and what<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 happens when<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; e.g. the served MAC vanishes<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Doesn&#39;t the EVPN RFC already stating<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that the routes<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 would be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; withdrawn in that case?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;The scenario I had in mind was when eVPN<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 PE receives<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;From PE2 IP1/M1=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 later<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;From PE3 IP1/M2<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;while having answered with IP1/M1 per<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 proxy alrady.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Additionally, in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;such situation ends up seeing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;From PE2=C2=A0 IP1/&lt;no MAC&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;So the answer it gave is not valid anymore<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 all of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a sudden.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;&gt; &gt;--- tony<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
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Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 13:44:19 -0700
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Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
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On 4/16/15 1:38 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Hi Erik,
>
> Just to clarify .. none of my comments where about dual NIC servers. 
> Address overload in linux happens on single NIC (unlike in good 
> routers :))
Ah - I need more coffee even at this time of day.

Thanks,
    Erik

>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 10:35 PM, Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org 
> <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>> wrote:
>
>     On 4/15/15 11:25 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>
>         Ok I think there are two scenarios.
>
>         The original scenario I had in mind was indeed the loopback
>         anycast which would really not have any issues with arp.
>
>         The other scenario is NIC overload with multiple addresses
>         some of them would be anycast. It is in fact not that uncommon
>         to have an identical VMs with same IP for robustness without
>         LB. I am not sure if we need to *solve* it at ARP, but we do
>         need to consider it as a valid case and not react as far as
>         duplicate address detection is concerned. Again here depending
>         on the implementation if you put both such VMs say in
>         different VRFs you have no ARP issue, but anycast works fine.
>
>     Robert,
>     The case of a dual-NIC server is typically solved locally (using
>     e.g., multi-chassis LAG for redundancy), and AFAIK the same MAC
>     address is used (but I haven't looked at all the flavors of Linux
>     NIC bonding and VmWare options).
>
>
>         I think to proceed I would be happy to see those cases just
>         documented in deployment section of the draft and we move on.
>         I do not think that solving or even touching IPv4 ARP is
>         needed here at this point.
>
>
>     Agreed.
>
>
>         Or perhaps a different comment to add to the draft would be to
>         mention that duplicate IPv4 address detection is scoped to the
>         same ARP table (which may not be the same as same subnet :).
>
>
>     That seems like a useful addition (if it isn't already in this or
>     some other document).
>
>        Erik
>
>
>         Cheers,
>         r.
>
>
>
>
>         On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Erik Nordmark
>         <nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>> wrote:
>
>             On 4/15/15 2:53 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>
>                 Erik,
>
>                 How about /32 IPv4 anycast addresses with multiple
>         subnet per
>                 linux NIC ? It is typical to be able to overload host
>                 networking with same anycast loopbacks.
>
>             I guess "same subnet" isn't sufficient as criteria - "same
>         subnet
>             which corresponds to a connected route" would be one way
>         to phrase
>             the constraint.
>
>
>                 It does not need to be ARP resolved .. the resolution is
>                 indirect via connected next hops.
>
>             Yes, that is the key issue.
>
>             For instance host routes (/32) and an anycast address on a
>             loopback interface works fine in IPv4 and IPv6.
>
>                Erik
>
>
>                 Cheers,
>                 R.
>
>
>
>
>                 On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:48 PM, Erik Nordmark
>                 <nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>
>                 <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>>> wrote:
>
>                     On 3/31/15 1:10 PM, Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge) wrote:
>
>                         Hi Robert and Tony,
>
>                         As Wim mentioned, ipv6 anycast is something
>         that we
>                 will add
>                         to the draft in the next rev. There is an easy
>         way to
>                 know if
>                         a given proxy-ND entry belongs to an anycast
>         address
>                 or not
>                         and disable the duplicate IP detection for those.
>
>                         The challenge for IPv4 is that I don’t see an
>         easy way to
>                         learn _dynamically_ from access attachment
>         circuits that a
>                         given ipv4 is anycast. Even for default
>         gateways, if
>                 they are
>                         integrated in the EVPN PE, we are good, but if
>         they are
>                         external and connected to a MAC-VRF, it is not so
>                 clear how to
>                         learn that (unless you learn those entries
>         from the
>                 management
>                         interface).
>
>                     Jorge,
>
>                     IPv4/ARP doesn't have any support for anycast
>         address on
>                 the same
>                     subnet. While IPv6/ND has such support (using the
>         O-flag) the
>                     common anycast deployment for both is to have the
>         anycast
>                     instances deployed on different subnets and, in
>         the case
>                 of DNS
>                     servers, in different ISPs.
>
>                     Thus for IPv4 I think you can assume that the same
>         IP address
>                     appearing with different MAC addresses is either a
>                 duplicate IP
>                     address or a case of a host having changed the MAC
>         address
>                 on its
>                     NIC. (I don't know if NIC bonding can be
>         configured in a
>                 way where
>                     it looks like an IP->MAC change each time there is a
>                 failure; if
>                     so that would be a third case.)
>
>                        Erik
>
>
>                         One of the reasons why we have lots of
>         “SHOULDs” in
>                 the draft
>                         and not “MUST” is because the implementation
>         has to be
>                         flexible enough to be configured in a
>         different way
>                 depending
>                         on the use-case, which is one of the points
>         that Tony
>                 mentions
>                         below. In the use-case described at the moment
>         there is no
>                         anycast and duplicate IP detection is very
>         important.
>                 We will
>                         add the DC use case in the next rev as
>         suggested by
>                 Robert and
>                         others.
>                         Thanks.
>                         Jorge
>
>
>                         From: Antoni Przygienda
>                 <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>                         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>
>                         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>                         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>>>
>                         Date: Monday, March 30, 2015 at 12:12 AM
>                         To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>                 <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>
>                         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net> <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>>
>                 <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>
>                         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>                 <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>>>>, "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)"
>                         <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>
>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>>>
>                         Cc: Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>
>                 <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>
>                 <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>>
>                         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org> <mailto:nordmark@acm.org
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>
>                 <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>
>         <mailto:nordmark@acm.org <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>>>>,
>                         "bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>>"
>
>                 <bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>
>                         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>>>, Jorge Rabadan
>                         <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>>
>                         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>
>                         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>>>>
>                         Subject: RE: [bess] ARP ND draft
>
>                             I’m also skeptical whether IP duplicate
>         detection
>                 would be
>                         a good
>                             default thing. Especially in case of what
>         I call
>                 ‘aliased
>                         default
>                             gateway’ which section 10.1 specifically
>         allows, i.e.
>                         default GW
>                             IP address is same but each PE may use a
>         different
>                 MAC when
>                             advertising it and consequently responses
>         for same
>                 IP with
>                             different ARPs may be seen in the
>         network.  Yes,
>                 default GW
>                             ExtComm is there to differentiate so it can be
>                 called an
>                         exception
>                             but nevertheless.
>
>                             I also thought a tad about VRRP but I
>         think the IP
>                 duplicate
>                             detection will not apply there, it’s all same
>                 IPx->MACx
>                         from all
>                             routers so if anything, it’s more of a MAC
>         move thing.
>
>                             Generally I think someone who wants a secure,
>                 stable eVPN
>                         wants IP
>                             duplicate detection, someone who runs a
>         very dynamic
>                         network with
>                             tons gateways, possibly anycast & floating
>         IPs will
>                         probably not
>                             be too enamored with it.
>
>                             Thanks
>
>                             --- tony
>
>                             //
>
>                             /There are basically two types of people.
>         People who
>                         accomplish
>                             things, and people who claim to have
>         accomplished
>                 things. The
>                             first group is less crowded.
>                                          
>         <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html>/
>
>                             /~~~ Mark Twain
>                                          
>         <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain393535.html>/
>
>                             *From:*rraszuk@gmail.com
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>
>                 <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>
>                 <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>>
>                         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com> <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>
>                 <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>>>
>                             [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>
>                 <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>
>                 <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com
>         <mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>>>] *On
>                         Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk
>                             *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 1:19 AM
>                             *To:* Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>                             *Cc:* Erik Nordmark; Antoni Przygienda;
>         bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org> <mailto:bess@ietf.org
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>
>                             <mailto:bess@ietf.org
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org> <mailto:bess@ietf.org
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>>; Rabadan,
>                         Jorge (Jorge)
>                             *Subject:* Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>
>                             Hi Wim,
>
>                             > There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure
>         but I am not
>                         ware this is
>                             supported at arp level.
>
>                             Precisely right. It needs to be documented and
>                 addressed
>                         if anyone
>                             is up to proposing automated IP duplicate
>         address
>                         detection and
>                             disabling.
>
>                             RFC1546 is rather too old to consider here as
>                 solution :)
>
>                             Cheers,
>
>                             R.
>
>                             On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:10 AM,
>         Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>                             <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>
>                             <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>>> wrote:
>
>                             To be clear: RFC4861 section 7.2.7
>         explains the
>                 anycast
>                         behaviour
>                             in IPv6.
>
>                             I am not aware of such thing at IPv4/ARP
>         level. Do you
>                         have a pointer?
>
>                             There is anycast at IPv4 level for sure
>         but I am
>                 not ware
>                         this is
>                             supported at arp level.
>
>                             *From: *<Henderickx>, Wim Henderickx
>                             *Date: *Monday 30 March 2015 07:38
>                             *To: *Robert Raszuk
>                             *Cc: *Erik Nordmark, Antoni Przygienda,
>                 "bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>
>                             <mailto:bess@ietf.org
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org> <mailto:bess@ietf.org
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>>", Jorge Rabadan
>
>
>                             *Subject: *Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>
>                             At interface level you get dad in most
>         stacks I know.
>
>                             Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>                             On 30 Mar 2015, at 06:45, Robert Raszuk
>                 <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>
>                         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net> <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>>
>                             <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>                 <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>
>                 <mailto:robert@raszuk.net
>         <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>>>> wrote:
>
>                                 Hi Wim,
>
>                                 What makes you say that in IPv4 there
>         is no
>                 anycast ? All
>                                 anycase I have played so far is IPv4 :)
>
>                                 Cheers,
>
>                                 r.
>
>                                 On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 11:18 PM,
>         Henderickx,
>                 Wim (Wim)
>                                 <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>
>                                
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>>> wrote:
>
>                                 We will update the draft to highlight
>         the IPv6
>                 anycast
>                                 behaviour better as pointed out by
>         RObert. In IPv4
>                         there is no
>                                 anycast behaviour and as such there
>         should be one
>                         option possible.
>
>
>
>
>                                 On 30/03/15 04:59, "Antoni Przygienda"
>                                 <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>                         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>
>                                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>
>                         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>>> wrote:
>
>                                 >Yes, but of course I brought it up to
>         show
>                 that 'the
>                         last one
>                                 simply wins' as suggested by the draft
>         is not
>                 enough
>                         IMO. A
>                                 good architecture should probably keep
>         track
>                 of what
>                         it served
>                                 as answer and when the answer is
>         invalid or a new,
>                         better one
>                                 exists, provide a GARP.
>                                 >
>                                 >As well, when PE2 sends a newer MAC
>         it may
>                 not be a good
>                                 strategy to serve a GARP if PE1's MAC has
>                 already been
>                                 offered. That could lead IMO to e.g.
>         gateway
>                 chasing
>                         problems.
>                                 >
>                                 >--- tony
>                                 >
>                                 >
>                                 >There are basically two types of people.
>                 People who
>                                 accomplish things, and people who
>         claim to have
>                         accomplished
>                                 things. The first group is less crowded.
>                                 >~~~ Mark Twain
>                                 >
>                                 >
>                                 >> -----Original Message-----
>                                 >> From: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>                                
>         [mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>
>                                
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>                         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
>                 <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>>>>]
>                                 >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:01 AM
>                                 >> To: Antoni Przygienda; Erik
>         Nordmark; Rabadan,
>                         Jorge (Jorge)
>                                 >> Cc: bess@ietf.org
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org> <mailto:bess@ietf.org
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>
>                         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
>                 <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>>>
>                                 >> Subject: Re: [bess] ARP ND draft
>                                 >>
>                                 >> For this case you should sent a
>         GARP with
>                 the new
>                         MAC/IP
>                                 >>
>                                 >>
>                                 >>
>                                 >>
>                                 >> On 25/03/15 18:56, "Antoni Przygienda"
>                                 <antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>                         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>
>                                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>
>                         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>
>                 <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com
>         <mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com>>>>>
>                                 >> wrote:
>                                 >>
>                                 >> >> > b)It is worth explaining what
>         is suggested
>                         behavior if
>                                 eVPN
>                                 >> >> > advertises the same IP with
>         multiple
>                 MACs and what
>                                 happens when
>                                 >> >> > e.g. the served MAC vanishes
>                                 >> >> >
>                                 >> >> Doesn't the EVPN RFC already stating
>                 that the routes
>                                 would be
>                                 >> >> withdrawn in that case?
>                                 >> >
>                                 >> >The scenario I had in mind was
>         when eVPN
>                 PE receives
>                                 >> >
>                                 >> >From PE2 IP1/M1 and  later
>                                 >> >From PE3 IP1/M2
>                                 >> >
>                                 >> >while having answered with IP1/M1 per
>                 proxy alrady.
>                                 Additionally, in
>                                 >> >such situation ends up seeing
>                                 >> >
>                                 >> >From PE2 IP1/<no MAC>
>                                 >> >
>                                 >> >So the answer it gave is not valid
>         anymore
>                 all of
>                         a sudden.
>                                 >> >
>                                 >> >--- tony
>                                
>         _______________________________________________
>                                 BESS mailing list
>         BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org> <mailto:BESS@ietf.org
>         <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>> <mailto:BESS@ietf.org
>         <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
>                 <mailto:BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>>>
>         <mailto:BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
>                 <mailto:BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>>
>                         <mailto:BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>>>>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>
>
>                     _______________________________________________
>                     BESS mailing list
>         BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org> <mailto:BESS@ietf.org
>         <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>> <mailto:BESS@ietf.org
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>                 <mailto:BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>>>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>
>
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             BESS mailing list
>         BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org> <mailto:BESS@ietf.org
>         <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>>
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>
>
>
>


From nobody Fri Apr 17 14:22:43 2015
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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge)" <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] PBB-EVPN draft - use of sticky bit in mac mobility ext. com.
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Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 21:22:34 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] PBB-EVPN draft - use of sticky bit in mac mobility ext. com.
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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-extranet-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled Services Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Extranet Multicast in BGP/IP MPLS VPNs
        Authors         : Yakov Rekhter
                          Eric C. Rosen
                          Rahul Aggarwal
                          Yiqun Cai
                          Wim Henderickx
                          Thomas Morin
                          Praveen Muley
                          Ray Qiu
                          IJsbrand Wijnands
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-extranet-01.txt
	Pages           : 59
	Date            : 2015-04-20

Abstract:
   Previous RFCs specify the procedures necessary to allow IP multicast
   traffic to travel from one site to another within a BGP/MPLS IP VPN
   (Virtual Private Network).  However, it is sometimes desirable to
   allow multicast traffic whose source is in one VPN to be received by
   systems that are in another VPN.  This is known as a "Multicast VPN
   (MVPN) extranet".  This document updates RFCs 6513, 6514, and 6625 by
   specifying the procedures that are necessary in order to provide MVPN
   extranet service.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-extranet/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-extranet-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-extranet-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Tue Apr 21 00:00:54 2015
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Jari Arkko has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-bidir-04: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The remaining comment from Elwyn's Gen-ART review would be worthwhile one
to address, in my opinion.



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From nobody Mon Apr 27 10:05:21 2015
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Cc: bess chair <bess-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, bess mailing list <bess@ietf.org>, RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: [bess] Protocol Action: 'MVPN: Using Bidirectional P-Tunnels' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-bidir-04.txt)
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The IESG has approved the following document:
- 'MVPN: Using Bidirectional P-Tunnels'
  (draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-bidir-04.txt) as Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the BGP Enabled Services Working Group.

The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Alia Atlas and Deborah
Brungard.

A URL of this Internet Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-bidir/




Technical Summary

   A set of prior RFCs specify procedures for supporting multicast in
   BGP/MPLS IP VPNs.  These procedures allow customer multicast data to
   travel across a service provider's backbone network through a set of
   multicast tunnels.  The tunnels are advertised in certain BGP
   multicast "auto-discovery" routes, by means of a BGP attribute known
   as the "Provider Multicast Service Interface (PMSI) Tunnel
   attribute".  Encodings have been defined that allow the PMSI Tunnel
   attribute to identify bidirectional (multipoint-to-multipoint)
   multicast distribution trees.  However, the prior RFCs do not provide
   all the necessary procedures for using bidirectional tunnels to
   support multicast VPNs.  This document updates RFCs 6513, 6514 and
   6625 by specifying those procedures.  In particular, it specifies the
   procedures for assigning customer multicast flows (unidirectional or
   bidirectional) to specific bidirectional tunnels in the provider
   backbone, for advertising such assignments, and for determining which
   flows have been assigned to which tunnels.

Working Group Summary

  The consensus for adoption back in 2011 was rough, with a few 
  contributors disagreeing on the scope that bidir P-tunnels should apply to. 
  This debate has settled down a long time ago and the document has 
  evolved since; no disagreement was expressed in the last years, nor 
  during the last calls.

Document Quality

   The document is believe to be of good quality by the shepherd. It can be
   noted that it was written by a co-autor of the base mVPN specs based on
   an understanding of underspecified areas, which are now addressed. 
  
   It has been indicated that Cisco has implemented the two main methods
   described by these specs, the Flat Partitioned Method (with MP2MP LSPs) 
   and the Unpartitioned method (with MP2MP LSPs and also with BIDIR-PIM).

   The document had two thorough reviews (by a WG contributor and by the 
   shepherd), leading to substantive changes in the document.

Personnel

   Thomas Morin is the Document Shepherd.
   Alvaro Retana is the Responsible Area Director.




From nobody Tue Apr 28 10:42:29 2015
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Subject: [bess] SDN/MPLS 2015 CFP Announcement
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Call for Presentation Abstract Proposals Now up at http://www.isocore.com/2=
015/cfp.htm

Submissions Deadline: May 11

Isocore's 2015 International Conference, the 18th Annual event on new netwo=
rking technologies will be held November 15-18, 2015, in Washington, DC.
This year, the overarching themes of the conference will be on Softwarizati=
on, Programmatic Control, Security and Operational Experience of the Networ=
k and Services in Cloud, Data Centers and DevOps environments.

The conference Program Committee is soliciting presentation proposals seeki=
ng original and
unpublished work to continue the tradition initiated by this conference in =
1998 of covering cutting-edge topics. Presentations addressing new technolo=
gies and operational experience are solicited from network equipment vendor=
s, service providers, the research community, government agencies, and ente=
rprise=20
users.

Please submit your abstracts to cfp2015@isocore.com

Regards,
Ron Bonica


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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)
Thread-Index: AQHQgSfZ/DAmCRMKgEyTJeq3ChnB/p1hinCAgAAw3wCAABujgIAAazmAgAFpEwA=
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:40:33 +0000
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References: <20150427202110.525FF180092@rfc-editor.org> <553F3E2D.4060208@pi.nu> <D164DDF1.15B47%cpignata@cisco.com> <00d501d081af$b0a7ef00$11f7cd00$@olddog.co.uk> <6A69A0A7-6C76-4AB3-94A6-0D123DFE8459@cisco.com>
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Cc: "George Swallow \(swallow\)" <swallow@cisco.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "nsheth@juniper.net" <nsheth@juniper.net>, "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>, "Black, David" <david.black@emc.com>, Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" <aretana@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)
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Hi Carlos,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 2:58 AM
> To: Adrian Farrel
> Cc: Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; Xuxiaohu; nsheth@juniper.net; Lucy
> yong; Ross Callon; Black, David; Alia Atlas; BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A; Alvaro
> Retana (aretana); George Swallow (swallow); mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)
>=20
> Hi, Adrian,
>=20
> Thanks for the additional context. Note that I did not object any changes=
 made
> to the registry itself (although I still think that pointing to RFC 7510 =
is incorrect),
> only to the errata. Modifying the data plane document to include an IANA =
action
> for BGP sounds off.
>=20
> In other words, I see two problems with the approach from the errata (or =
really
> two sides of the same issue):
>=20
> 1. RFC 7510 specifies the data plane encapsulation, and not the BGP signa=
ling. As
> such, it does not make for a good reference for the BGP Tunnel Encapsulat=
ion
> Attribute Tunnel Type 13.
>=20
> 2. Existing entries in the "BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Typ=
es"
> registry point to the documents which specify how that attribute is used.
>=20
> For example, the value 1, L2TPv3 over IP, points to RFC 5512 and not to R=
FC
> 3931. The value 2, GRE, points to RFC 5512 and not to RFC 2784. The value=
 4
> points to RFC 5566 and not to RFC4302, RFC4303.

In fact, I had ever followed the above logic by specifying the BGP signalin=
g for MPLS-in-UDP in a separate doc (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-s=
oftwire-encaps-udp-00) which has been moved to BESS WG (see https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-xu-bess-encaps-udp-00) recently. However...

Best regards,
Xiaohu

> There is another technical problem with the current approach: RFC 7510
> specifies two UDP ports, for MPLS-in-UDP and MPLS-in-UDP with DTLS
> respectively. To which one of these two does the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation
> Attribute Tunnel Type value of 13 correspond to? Do you actually need two
> Types? Further, do you need to consider the LB from RFC 5640?
>=20
> Please see more inline.
>=20
> > On Apr 28, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Carlos,
> >
> > Since I raised the issue...
> >
> > The text that was omitted was agreed for inclusion between the RFC
> > Editor, IANA, and responsible AD before the publication of the RFC,
> > but was fumbled by the RFC Editor.
> >
> > The RFC Editor requested this report to be submitted to resolve this
> > issue, and I checked with the ADs before I posted it.
> >
> > The problem it solves is that the existing registry entry points at an
> > I-D that caused the allocation of the code point, but that I-D is not
> > a good reference for explaining what "MPLS in UDP" is. This document
> > provides a better indication.
> >
>=20
> The reference should not explain what "MPLS in UDP" is. The reference sho=
uld
> explain what is the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Type 13 for=
 MPLS
> in UDP.
>=20
> > You said...
> >
> >> RFC 7510 states that it =B3specifies an IP-based encapsulation for
> >> MPLS, called MPLS-in-UDP=B2 but there is no mention to the
> >> specification of any signaling associated to setting up said
> >> encapsulation. In other words, it self-concerns itself with the encap.
> >
> > That is correct. And there is no attempt to define any signaling or
> > add any mention of signaling to this document.
> >
> > This is not a forward pointer, but a request to include a backward
> > pointer. That is, it is a request to update the entry that already
> > exists in the registry with a pointer to this document so that people
> > can see what "MPLS in UDP" is when they encounter the value in the regi=
stry.
> >
>=20
> I understand. My comment is that the reference should not be to "MPLS in
> UDP". The same way that the Type 1 does not point to RFC 3931.
>=20
> >> Further, there is no mention in RFC 7510 of =B3BGP=B2 and no reference=
 to
> >> RFC 5512. For a document specifying a BGP Tunnel Encapsulation
> >> Attribute Tunnel Type, I=B9d expect a reference (normative) to RFC 551=
2
> >> (such as in RFC 5566).
> >
> > This document does not specify a BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute
> > and there is no request for it to make such a specification.
> >
> > References could be included, but they would be pointless because
> > there is nothing to hook the references to. The *only* change
> > requested is to attach a pointer to the existing entry in the registry.
> >
> >> Lastly, the IANA page points to a different document:
> >> http://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-
> >> parameters.xhtml#tunnel-
> >> types
> >>
> >> Value 	Name 				Reference
> >> 13 	MPLS in UDP Encapsulation 	[draft-ietf-l3vpn-end-system]
> >
> > Yes.
> > Have you read that document?
> >
> > This errata report does not request removal of that reference. It
> > requests the addition of an extra reference. How is that a problem?
> >
>=20
> I see not problem with the addition of a reference in an IANA registry.
>=20
> I do see a problem with modifying the RFC by way of an errata.
>=20
> > For those of you who have read around the subject, you may recall a
> > prolonged series of emails across a number of mailing lists where a
> > number of different new I-Ds were proposed to give a more substantive
> reference for the tunnel type.
> > This errata report solves that issue without needing further documents.
> >
>=20
> Can the reference be added without the Erratum? That seems possible to me=
.
>=20
> > You may also like to note that we are dealing with a FCFS registry
> > where the documents supplied as references do not always provide a
> > good explanation. Is it better to leave the registry with a poor
> > reference, or to add a somewhat better one?
> >
> >> Net-net, this RFC is not the right place to be a pointer for this
> >> assignment.
> >
> > I respect your right to hold that opinion, but I don't think you have
> > given any valid reasons for holding it. Perhaps this lack is caused by
> > unfamiliarity with FCFS registries.
> >
>=20
> I am happy to be educated. I re-read the FCFS definition form RFC 5226. W=
hy
> does RFC 7510 need to be modified for this?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> - Carlos.
>=20
> > Adrian
> >


From nobody Thu Apr 30 00:11:58 2015
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From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-ipr@ietf.org>
To: <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>, <senthil.sathappan@alcatel-lucent.com>,  <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>,  <senad.palislamovic@alcatel-lucent.com>, <florin@nuagenetworks.net>, <sajassi@cisco.com>, <dcai@cisco.com>
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Cc: db3546@att.com, akatlas@gmail.com, ipr-announce@ietf.org, aretana@cisco.com, thomas.morin@orange.com, martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com, bess@ietf.org
Subject: [bess] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-bess-dci-evpn-overlay
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Dear Jorge Rabadan, Senthil Sathappan, Wim Henderickx, Senad Palislamovic, Florin Balus, Ali Sajassi, Dennis Cai:


An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled
"Interconnect Solution for EVPN Overlay networks"
(draft-ietf-bess-dci-evpn-overlay) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on  and
has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures"
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2586/). The title of the IPR disclosure is
"Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement about IPR related to
draft-ietf-bess-dci-evpn-overlay"


Thank you

IETF Secretariat


From nobody Thu Apr 30 00:12:00 2015
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Xiaohu Xu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)
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References: <20150427202110.525FF180092@rfc-editor.org> <553F3E2D.4060208@pi.nu> <D164DDF1.15B47%cpignata@cisco.com> <00d501d081af$b0a7ef00$11f7cd00$@olddog.co.uk> <6A69A0A7-6C76-4AB3-94A6-0D123DFE8459@cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08329BF2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com>
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Cc: "George Swallow \(swallow\)" <swallow@cisco.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "nsheth@juniper.net" <nsheth@juniper.net>, "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>, "Black, David" <david.black@emc.com>, Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" <aretana@cisco.com>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)
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Hi Xiaohu,

> On Apr 29, 2015, at 4:40 AM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Carlos,
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com =
<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 2:58 AM
>> To: Adrian Farrel
>> Cc: Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; Xuxiaohu; nsheth@juniper.net =
<mailto:nsheth@juniper.net>; Lucy
>> yong; Ross Callon; Black, David; Alia Atlas; BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A; =
Alvaro
>> Retana (aretana); George Swallow (swallow); mpls@ietf.org =
<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)
>>=20
>> Hi, Adrian,
>>=20
>> Thanks for the additional context. Note that I did not object any =
changes made
>> to the registry itself (although I still think that pointing to RFC =
7510 is incorrect),
>> only to the errata. Modifying the data plane document to include an =
IANA action
>> for BGP sounds off.
>>=20
>> In other words, I see two problems with the approach from the errata =
(or really
>> two sides of the same issue):
>>=20
>> 1. RFC 7510 specifies the data plane encapsulation, and not the BGP =
signaling. As
>> such, it does not make for a good reference for the BGP Tunnel =
Encapsulation
>> Attribute Tunnel Type 13.
>>=20
>> 2. Existing entries in the "BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel =
Types"
>> registry point to the documents which specify how that attribute is =
used.
>>=20
>> For example, the value 1, L2TPv3 over IP, points to RFC 5512 and not =
to RFC
>> 3931. The value 2, GRE, points to RFC 5512 and not to RFC 2784. The =
value 4
>> points to RFC 5566 and not to RFC4302, RFC4303.
>=20
> In fact, I had ever followed the above logic by specifying the BGP =
signaling for MPLS-in-UDP in a separate doc =
(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-softwire-encaps-udp-00 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-softwire-encaps-udp-00>) which has =
been moved to BESS WG (see =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-bess-encaps-udp-00 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-bess-encaps-udp-00>) recently. =
However=85
>=20

I am not implying that a new I-D is necessarily required. I am saying =
that:
1. It seems a step was skipped with this Errata, where a BGP parameter =
points to a data plane definition, and
2. It appears to be technically incorrect, since there are two potential =
modes (with and without DTLS) but one entry only.

Thanks,

=97 Carlos.

> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>=20
>> There is another technical problem with the current approach: RFC =
7510
>> specifies two UDP ports, for MPLS-in-UDP and MPLS-in-UDP with DTLS
>> respectively. To which one of these two does the BGP Tunnel =
Encapsulation
>> Attribute Tunnel Type value of 13 correspond to? Do you actually need =
two
>> Types? Further, do you need to consider the LB from RFC 5640?
>>=20
>> Please see more inline.
>>=20
>>> On Apr 28, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hi Carlos,
>>>=20
>>> Since I raised the issue...
>>>=20
>>> The text that was omitted was agreed for inclusion between the RFC
>>> Editor, IANA, and responsible AD before the publication of the RFC,
>>> but was fumbled by the RFC Editor.
>>>=20
>>> The RFC Editor requested this report to be submitted to resolve this
>>> issue, and I checked with the ADs before I posted it.
>>>=20
>>> The problem it solves is that the existing registry entry points at =
an
>>> I-D that caused the allocation of the code point, but that I-D is =
not
>>> a good reference for explaining what "MPLS in UDP" is. This document
>>> provides a better indication.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> The reference should not explain what "MPLS in UDP" is. The reference =
should
>> explain what is the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Type 13 =
for MPLS
>> in UDP.
>>=20
>>> You said...
>>>=20
>>>> RFC 7510 states that it =B3specifies an IP-based encapsulation for
>>>> MPLS, called MPLS-in-UDP=B2 but there is no mention to the
>>>> specification of any signaling associated to setting up said
>>>> encapsulation. In other words, it self-concerns itself with the =
encap.
>>>=20
>>> That is correct. And there is no attempt to define any signaling or
>>> add any mention of signaling to this document.
>>>=20
>>> This is not a forward pointer, but a request to include a backward
>>> pointer. That is, it is a request to update the entry that already
>>> exists in the registry with a pointer to this document so that =
people
>>> can see what "MPLS in UDP" is when they encounter the value in the =
registry.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> I understand. My comment is that the reference should not be to "MPLS =
in
>> UDP". The same way that the Type 1 does not point to RFC 3931.
>>=20
>>>> Further, there is no mention in RFC 7510 of =B3BGP=B2 and no =
reference to
>>>> RFC 5512. For a document specifying a BGP Tunnel Encapsulation
>>>> Attribute Tunnel Type, I=B9d expect a reference (normative) to RFC =
5512
>>>> (such as in RFC 5566).
>>>=20
>>> This document does not specify a BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute
>>> and there is no request for it to make such a specification.
>>>=20
>>> References could be included, but they would be pointless because
>>> there is nothing to hook the references to. The *only* change
>>> requested is to attach a pointer to the existing entry in the =
registry.
>>>=20
>>>> Lastly, the IANA page points to a different document:
>>>> http://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-
>>>> parameters.xhtml#tunnel-
>>>> types
>>>>=20
>>>> Value 	Name 				Reference
>>>> 13 	MPLS in UDP Encapsulation 	=
[draft-ietf-l3vpn-end-system]
>>>=20
>>> Yes.
>>> Have you read that document?
>>>=20
>>> This errata report does not request removal of that reference. It
>>> requests the addition of an extra reference. How is that a problem?
>>>=20
>>=20
>> I see not problem with the addition of a reference in an IANA =
registry.
>>=20
>> I do see a problem with modifying the RFC by way of an errata.
>>=20
>>> For those of you who have read around the subject, you may recall a
>>> prolonged series of emails across a number of mailing lists where a
>>> number of different new I-Ds were proposed to give a more =
substantive
>> reference for the tunnel type.
>>> This errata report solves that issue without needing further =
documents.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> Can the reference be added without the Erratum? That seems possible =
to me.
>>=20
>>> You may also like to note that we are dealing with a FCFS registry
>>> where the documents supplied as references do not always provide a
>>> good explanation. Is it better to leave the registry with a poor
>>> reference, or to add a somewhat better one?
>>>=20
>>>> Net-net, this RFC is not the right place to be a pointer for this
>>>> assignment.
>>>=20
>>> I respect your right to hold that opinion, but I don't think you =
have
>>> given any valid reasons for holding it. Perhaps this lack is caused =
by
>>> unfamiliarity with FCFS registries.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> I am happy to be educated. I re-read the FCFS definition form RFC =
5226. Why
>> does RFC 7510 need to be modified for this?
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> - Carlos.
>>=20
>>> Adrian


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Xiaohu,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Apr 29, 2015, at 4:40 AM, =
Xuxiaohu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com" =
class=3D"">xuxiaohu@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Hi Carlos,</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">-----Original =
Message-----<br class=3D"">From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [<a =
href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" =
class=3D"">mailto:cpignata@cisco.com</a>]<br class=3D"">Sent: Wednesday, =
April 29, 2015 2:58 AM<br class=3D"">To: Adrian Farrel<br class=3D"">Cc: =
Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; Xuxiaohu;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:nsheth@juniper.net" class=3D"">nsheth@juniper.net</a>; =
Lucy<br class=3D"">yong; Ross Callon; Black, David; Alia Atlas; =
BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A; Alvaro<br class=3D"">Retana (aretana); George =
Swallow (swallow);<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" class=3D"">mpls@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">Subject: Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 =
(4350)<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Hi, Adrian,<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thanks for the additional context. Note that I did not object =
any changes made<br class=3D"">to the registry itself (although I still =
think that pointing to RFC 7510 is incorrect),<br class=3D"">only to the =
errata. Modifying the data plane document to include an IANA action<br =
class=3D"">for BGP sounds off.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">In other =
words, I see two problems with the approach from the errata (or =
really<br class=3D"">two sides of the same issue):<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">1. RFC 7510 specifies the data plane encapsulation, and not =
the BGP signaling. As<br class=3D"">such, it does not make for a good =
reference for the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation<br class=3D"">Attribute =
Tunnel Type 13.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">2. Existing entries in the =
"BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Types"<br class=3D"">registry =
point to the documents which specify how that attribute is used.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">For example, the value 1, L2TPv3 over IP, =
points to RFC 5512 and not to RFC<br class=3D"">3931. The value 2, GRE, =
points to RFC 5512 and not to RFC 2784. The value 4<br class=3D"">points =
to RFC 5566 and not to RFC4302, RFC4303.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">In fact, I had ever followed the above logic by =
specifying the BGP signaling for MPLS-in-UDP in a separate doc =
(</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-softwire-encaps-udp-00" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-softwire-encaps-udp-00</a>=
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">) which has been moved to BESS =
WG (see<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-bess-encaps-udp-00" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-bess-encaps-udp-00</a><spa=
n style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">) recently. However=85</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family:=
 Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>I am not implying that a new I-D is necessarily =
required. I am saying that:</div><div>1. It seems a step was skipped =
with this Errata, where a BGP parameter points to a data plane =
definition, and</div><div>2. It appears to be technically incorrect, =
since there are two potential modes (with and without DTLS) but one =
entry only.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>=97 Carlos.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Best regards,</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Xiaohu</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">There is another =
technical problem with the current approach: RFC 7510<br =
class=3D"">specifies two UDP ports, for MPLS-in-UDP and MPLS-in-UDP with =
DTLS<br class=3D"">respectively. To which one of these two does the BGP =
Tunnel Encapsulation<br class=3D"">Attribute Tunnel Type value of 13 =
correspond to? Do you actually need two<br class=3D"">Types? Further, do =
you need to consider the LB from RFC 5640?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Please see more inline.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On Apr 28, 2015, at 8:34 =
AM, Adrian Farrel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" =
class=3D"">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Hi Carlos,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Since I raised the =
issue...<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The text that was omitted was =
agreed for inclusion between the RFC<br class=3D"">Editor, IANA, and =
responsible AD before the publication of the RFC,<br class=3D"">but was =
fumbled by the RFC Editor.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The RFC Editor =
requested this report to be submitted to resolve this<br class=3D"">issue,=
 and I checked with the ADs before I posted it.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">The problem it solves is that the existing registry entry =
points at an<br class=3D"">I-D that caused the allocation of the code =
point, but that I-D is not<br class=3D"">a good reference for explaining =
what "MPLS in UDP" is. This document<br class=3D"">provides a better =
indication.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">The =
reference should not explain what "MPLS in UDP" is. The reference =
should<br class=3D"">explain what is the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation =
Attribute Tunnel Type 13 for MPLS<br class=3D"">in UDP.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">You said...<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">RFC 7510 =
states that it =B3specifies an IP-based encapsulation for<br =
class=3D"">MPLS, called MPLS-in-UDP=B2 but there is no mention to the<br =
class=3D"">specification of any signaling associated to setting up =
said<br class=3D"">encapsulation. In other words, it self-concerns =
itself with the encap.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">That is =
correct. And there is no attempt to define any signaling or<br =
class=3D"">add any mention of signaling to this document.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">This is not a forward pointer, but a request =
to include a backward<br class=3D"">pointer. That is, it is a request to =
update the entry that already<br class=3D"">exists in the registry with =
a pointer to this document so that people<br class=3D"">can see what =
"MPLS in UDP" is when they encounter the value in the registry.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">I understand. My =
comment is that the reference should not be to "MPLS in<br =
class=3D"">UDP". The same way that the Type 1 does not point to RFC =
3931.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">Further, there is no =
mention in RFC 7510 of =B3BGP=B2 and no reference to<br class=3D"">RFC =
5512. For a document specifying a BGP Tunnel Encapsulation<br =
class=3D"">Attribute Tunnel Type, I=B9d expect a reference (normative) =
to RFC 5512<br class=3D"">(such as in RFC 5566).<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">This document does not specify a =
BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute<br class=3D"">and there is no request =
for it to make such a specification.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">References could be included, but they would be pointless =
because<br class=3D"">there is nothing to hook the references to. The =
*only* change<br class=3D"">requested is to attach a pointer to the =
existing entry in the registry.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D"">Lastly, the IANA page points to a different =
document:<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-" =
class=3D"">http://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-</a><br =
class=3D"">parameters.xhtml#tunnel-<br class=3D"">types<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Value<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre;">	</span>Name<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre;">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre;">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre;">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre;">	=
</span>Reference<br class=3D"">13<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre;">	</span>MPLS in =
UDP Encapsulation<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre;">	=
</span>[draft-ietf-l3vpn-end-system]<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
class=3D"">Yes.<br class=3D"">Have you read that document?<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">This errata report does not request removal of =
that reference. It<br class=3D"">requests the addition of an extra =
reference. How is that a problem?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">I see not problem with the =
addition of a reference in an IANA registry.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I do see a problem with modifying the RFC by way of an =
errata.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">For those of you who have read around the subject, you may =
recall a<br class=3D"">prolonged series of emails across a number of =
mailing lists where a<br class=3D"">number of different new I-Ds were =
proposed to give a more substantive<br class=3D""></blockquote>reference =
for the tunnel type.<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">This errata report solves that issue without needing further =
documents.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">Can =
the reference be added without the Erratum? That seems possible to =
me.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">You =
may also like to note that we are dealing with a FCFS registry<br =
class=3D"">where the documents supplied as references do not always =
provide a<br class=3D"">good explanation. Is it better to leave the =
registry with a poor<br class=3D"">reference, or to add a somewhat =
better one?<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">Net-net, this RFC is not the right place to be a pointer for =
this<br class=3D"">assignment.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">I=
 respect your right to hold that opinion, but I don't think you have<br =
class=3D"">given any valid reasons for holding it. Perhaps this lack is =
caused by<br class=3D"">unfamiliarity with FCFS registries.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">I am happy to be =
educated. I re-read the FCFS definition form RFC 5226. Why<br =
class=3D"">does RFC 7510 need to be modified for this?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">- Carlos.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">Adrian</blockquote></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Xiaohu Xu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)
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Cc: "George Swallow \(swallow\)" <swallow@cisco.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Nischal Sheth <nsheth@juniper.net>, "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>, "Black, David" <david.black@emc.com>, Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" <aretana@cisco.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)
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I may be a bit confused here regarding what sort of references are intended=
 to be listed in the registry.

Looking at the "Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) Parameters", and scrolling do=
wn to "BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Types", I see entries for =
various encapsulation types with various references. As some examples:

For the GRE tunnel type, I see a reference to RFC5512. RFC 5512 is "The BGP=
 Encapsulation SAFI and the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute", and is spe=
cifically not the RFC that defines GRE.

For the IPsec in Tunnel-mode tunnel type, I see a reference to RFC 5566. Ag=
ain RFC 5566 is not the RFC that specifies IPsec in Tunnel-mode.

For the VXLAN tunnel type, I see a reference to draft-sd-l2vpn-evpn-overlay=
. One issue is that this is an out of date reference (draft-sd-l2vpn-evpn-o=
verlay has been replaced by draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay). More importantly=
, this again is not the document that defines VXLAN. Rather, draft-ietf-bes=
s-evpn-overlay talks about how to use various encapsulations (of which VXLA=
N is one) along with BGP signaling to accomplish something.

Thus to me, referencing RFC 7510 in this particular registry is not the sam=
e sort of reference that is included along with the other tunnel types. How=
ever, I don't see any problem with referencing the document that defines th=
e tunnel method as an additional reference for each entry. If we are going =
to do this then perhaps we (for some definition of "we") should also add ot=
her references to the registry, specifically the document that defines the =
tunnel mechanism for each of the other tunnel types.

Ross (speaking as co-author of RFC 7510)

From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 3:25 PM
To: Xiaohu Xu
Cc: Adrian Farrel; Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; Nischal Sheth; Lucy yo=
ng; Ross Callon; Black, David; Alia Atlas; BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A; Alvaro Reta=
na (aretana); George Swallow (swallow); mpls@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)

Hi Xiaohu,

On Apr 29, 2015, at 4:40 AM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com<mailto:xuxiaohu@=
huawei.com>> wrote:

Hi Carlos,


-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 2:58 AM
To: Adrian Farrel
Cc: Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; Xuxiaohu; nsheth@juniper.net<mailto:n=
sheth@juniper.net>; Lucy
yong; Ross Callon; Black, David; Alia Atlas; BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A; Alvaro
Retana (aretana); George Swallow (swallow); mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.=
org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)

Hi, Adrian,

Thanks for the additional context. Note that I did not object any changes m=
ade
to the registry itself (although I still think that pointing to RFC 7510 is=
 incorrect),
only to the errata. Modifying the data plane document to include an IANA ac=
tion
for BGP sounds off.

In other words, I see two problems with the approach from the errata (or re=
ally
two sides of the same issue):

1. RFC 7510 specifies the data plane encapsulation, and not the BGP signali=
ng. As
such, it does not make for a good reference for the BGP Tunnel Encapsulatio=
n
Attribute Tunnel Type 13.

2. Existing entries in the "BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Types=
"
registry point to the documents which specify how that attribute is used.

For example, the value 1, L2TPv3 over IP, points to RFC 5512 and not to RFC
3931. The value 2, GRE, points to RFC 5512 and not to RFC 2784. The value 4
points to RFC 5566 and not to RFC4302, RFC4303.

In fact, I had ever followed the above logic by specifying the BGP signalin=
g for MPLS-in-UDP in a separate doc (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-s=
oftwire-encaps-udp-00) which has been moved to BESS WG (see https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-xu-bess-encaps-udp-00) recently. However...


I am not implying that a new I-D is necessarily required. I am saying that:
1. It seems a step was skipped with this Errata, where a BGP parameter poin=
ts to a data plane definition, and
2. It appears to be technically incorrect, since there are two potential mo=
des (with and without DTLS) but one entry only.

Thanks,

- Carlos.


Best regards,
Xiaohu


There is another technical problem with the current approach: RFC 7510
specifies two UDP ports, for MPLS-in-UDP and MPLS-in-UDP with DTLS
respectively. To which one of these two does the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation
Attribute Tunnel Type value of 13 correspond to? Do you actually need two
Types? Further, do you need to consider the LB from RFC 5640?

Please see more inline.


On Apr 28, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adri=
an@olddog.co.uk>> wrote:

Hi Carlos,

Since I raised the issue...

The text that was omitted was agreed for inclusion between the RFC
Editor, IANA, and responsible AD before the publication of the RFC,
but was fumbled by the RFC Editor.

The RFC Editor requested this report to be submitted to resolve this
issue, and I checked with the ADs before I posted it.

The problem it solves is that the existing registry entry points at an
I-D that caused the allocation of the code point, but that I-D is not
a good reference for explaining what "MPLS in UDP" is. This document
provides a better indication.

The reference should not explain what "MPLS in UDP" is. The reference shoul=
d
explain what is the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Type 13 for M=
PLS
in UDP.


You said...


RFC 7510 states that it =B3specifies an IP-based encapsulation for
MPLS, called MPLS-in-UDP=B2 but there is no mention to the
specification of any signaling associated to setting up said
encapsulation. In other words, it self-concerns itself with the encap.

That is correct. And there is no attempt to define any signaling or
add any mention of signaling to this document.

This is not a forward pointer, but a request to include a backward
pointer. That is, it is a request to update the entry that already
exists in the registry with a pointer to this document so that people
can see what "MPLS in UDP" is when they encounter the value in the registry=
.

I understand. My comment is that the reference should not be to "MPLS in
UDP". The same way that the Type 1 does not point to RFC 3931.


Further, there is no mention in RFC 7510 of =B3BGP=B2 and no reference to
RFC 5512. For a document specifying a BGP Tunnel Encapsulation
Attribute Tunnel Type, I=B9d expect a reference (normative) to RFC 5512
(such as in RFC 5566).

This document does not specify a BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute
and there is no request for it to make such a specification.

References could be included, but they would be pointless because
there is nothing to hook the references to. The *only* change
requested is to attach a pointer to the existing entry in the registry.


Lastly, the IANA page points to a different document:
http://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-
parameters.xhtml#tunnel-
types

Value     Name                                                     Referenc=
e
13           MPLS in UDP Encapsulation            [draft-ietf-l3vpn-end-sys=
tem]

Yes.
Have you read that document?

This errata report does not request removal of that reference. It
requests the addition of an extra reference. How is that a problem?

I see not problem with the addition of a reference in an IANA registry.

I do see a problem with modifying the RFC by way of an errata.


For those of you who have read around the subject, you may recall a
prolonged series of emails across a number of mailing lists where a
number of different new I-Ds were proposed to give a more substantive
reference for the tunnel type.

This errata report solves that issue without needing further documents.

Can the reference be added without the Erratum? That seems possible to me.


You may also like to note that we are dealing with a FCFS registry
where the documents supplied as references do not always provide a
good explanation. Is it better to leave the registry with a poor
reference, or to add a somewhat better one?


Net-net, this RFC is not the right place to be a pointer for this
assignment.

I respect your right to hold that opinion, but I don't think you have
given any valid reasons for holding it. Perhaps this lack is caused by
unfamiliarity with FCFS registries.

I am happy to be educated. I re-read the FCFS definition form RFC 5226. Why
does RFC 7510 need to be modified for this?

Thanks,

- Carlos.


Adrian


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I may be a bit confused h=
ere regarding what sort of references are intended to be listed in the regi=
stry.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Looking at the &#8220;Bor=
der Gateway Protocol (BGP) Parameters&#8221;, and scrolling down to &#8220;=
BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Types&#8221;, I see entries for v=
arious
 encapsulation types with various references. As some examples: <o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">For the GRE tunnel type, =
I see a reference to RFC5512. RFC 5512 is &#8220;The BGP Encapsulation SAFI=
 and the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute&#8221;, and is specifically
 not the RFC that defines GRE. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">For the IPsec in Tunnel-m=
ode tunnel type, I see a reference to RFC 5566. Again RFC 5566 is not the R=
FC that specifies IPsec in Tunnel-mode.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">For the VXLAN tunnel type=
, I see a reference to draft-sd-l2vpn-evpn-overlay. One issue is that this =
is an out of date reference (draft-sd-l2vpn-evpn-overlay
 has been replaced by draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay). More importantly, this=
 again is not the document that defines VXLAN. Rather, draft-ietf-bess-evpn=
-overlay talks about how to use various encapsulations (of which VXLAN is o=
ne) along with BGP signaling to
 accomplish something. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thus to me, referencing R=
FC 7510 in this particular registry is not the same sort of reference that =
is included along with the other tunnel types. However,
 I don&#8217;t see any problem with referencing the document that defines t=
he tunnel method as an additional reference for each entry. If we are going=
 to do this then perhaps we (for some definition of &#8220;we&#8221;) shoul=
d also add other references to the registry, specifically
 the document that defines the tunnel mechanism for each of the other tunne=
l types.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Ross (speaking as co-auth=
or of RFC 7510)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Carlos P=
ignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 29, 2015 3:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiaohu Xu<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Adrian Farrel; Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; Nischal Sheth; =
Lucy yong; Ross Callon; Black, David; Alia Atlas; BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A; Alva=
ro Retana (aretana); George Swallow (swallow); mpls@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Xiaohu,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Apr 29, 2015, at 4:40 AM, Xuxiaohu &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com">xuxiaohu@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi Carlos,<br>
<br style=3D"orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-strok=
e-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">ma=
ilto:cpignata@cisco.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 2:58 AM<br>
To: Adrian Farrel<br>
Cc: Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; Xuxiaohu;<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:nsheth@juniper.net">nsheth@juniper=
.net</a>; Lucy<br>
yong; Ross Callon; Black, David; Alia Atlas; BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A; Alvaro<br=
>
Retana (aretana); George Swallow (swallow);<span class=3D"apple-converted-s=
pace">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)<br>
<br>
Hi, Adrian,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the additional context. Note that I did not object any changes m=
ade<br>
to the registry itself (although I still think that pointing to RFC 7510 is=
 incorrect),<br>
only to the errata. Modifying the data plane document to include an IANA ac=
tion<br>
for BGP sounds off.<br>
<br>
In other words, I see two problems with the approach from the errata (or re=
ally<br>
two sides of the same issue):<br>
<br>
1. RFC 7510 specifies the data plane encapsulation, and not the BGP signali=
ng. As<br>
such, it does not make for a good reference for the BGP Tunnel Encapsulatio=
n<br>
Attribute Tunnel Type 13.<br>
<br>
2. Existing entries in the &quot;BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel =
Types&quot;<br>
registry point to the documents which specify how that attribute is used.<b=
r>
<br>
For example, the value 1, L2TPv3 over IP, points to RFC 5512 and not to RFC=
<br>
3931. The value 2, GRE, points to RFC 5512 and not to RFC 2784. The value 4=
<br>
points to RFC 5566 and not to RFC4302, RFC4303.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
In fact, I had ever followed the above logic by specifying the BGP signalin=
g for MPLS-in-UDP in a separate doc (</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-xu-softwire-encaps-udp-00"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-xu-softwire-encaps-udp-00</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">)
 which has been moved to BESS WG (see<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">=
&nbsp;</span></span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-bess-en=
caps-udp-00"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-bess-encaps=
-udp-00</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetic=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">)
 recently. However&#8230;<br style=3D"orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows=
: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am not implying that a new I-D is necessarily requ=
ired. I am saying that:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1. It seems a step was skipped with this Errata, whe=
re a BGP parameter points to a data plane definition, and<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2. It appears to be technically incorrect, since the=
re are two potential modes (with and without DTLS) but one entry only.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8212; Carlos.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Best regards,<br>
Xiaohu<br>
<br style=3D"orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-strok=
e-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">There is another technical problem wit=
h the current approach: RFC 7510<br>
specifies two UDP ports, for MPLS-in-UDP and MPLS-in-UDP with DTLS<br>
respectively. To which one of these two does the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation<b=
r>
Attribute Tunnel Type value of 13 correspond to? Do you actually need two<b=
r>
Types? Further, do you need to consider the LB from RFC 5640?<br>
<br>
Please see more inline.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">On Apr =
28, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Adrian Farrel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.=
uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi Carlos,<br>
<br>
Since I raised the issue...<br>
<br>
The text that was omitted was agreed for inclusion between the RFC<br>
Editor, IANA, and responsible AD before the publication of the RFC,<br>
but was fumbled by the RFC Editor.<br>
<br>
The RFC Editor requested this report to be submitted to resolve this<br>
issue, and I checked with the ADs before I posted it.<br>
<br>
The problem it solves is that the existing registry entry points at an<br>
I-D that caused the allocation of the code point, but that I-D is not<br>
a good reference for explaining what &quot;MPLS in UDP&quot; is. This docum=
ent<br>
provides a better indication.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
The reference should not explain what &quot;MPLS in UDP&quot; is. The refer=
ence should<br>
explain what is the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Type 13 for M=
PLS<br>
in UDP.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">You said...<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">RFC 7510 states that it =B3specifies a=
n IP-based encapsulation for<br>
MPLS, called MPLS-in-UDP=B2 but there is no mention to the<br>
specification of any signaling associated to setting up said<br>
encapsulation. In other words, it self-concerns itself with the encap.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
That is correct. And there is no attempt to define any signaling or<br>
add any mention of signaling to this document.<br>
<br>
This is not a forward pointer, but a request to include a backward<br>
pointer. That is, it is a request to update the entry that already<br>
exists in the registry with a pointer to this document so that people<br>
can see what &quot;MPLS in UDP&quot; is when they encounter the value in th=
e registry.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
I understand. My comment is that the reference should not be to &quot;MPLS =
in<br>
UDP&quot;. The same way that the Type 1 does not point to RFC 3931.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Further, there is no mention in RFC 75=
10 of =B3BGP=B2 and no reference to<br>
RFC 5512. For a document specifying a BGP Tunnel Encapsulation<br>
Attribute Tunnel Type, I=B9d expect a reference (normative) to RFC 5512<br>
(such as in RFC 5566).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
This document does not specify a BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute<br>
and there is no request for it to make such a specification.<br>
<br>
References could be included, but they would be pointless because<br>
there is nothing to hook the references to. The *only* change<br>
requested is to attach a pointer to the existing entry in the registry.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Lastly, the IANA page points to a diff=
erent document:<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-">http://www.=
iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-</a><br>
parameters.xhtml#tunnel-<br>
types<br>
<br>
Value<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"appl=
e-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Name<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=
=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Reference<br>
13<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"apple-t=
ab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>MPLS in UDP Encapsulation<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span><span class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>[draft-ietf-l3vpn-end-system]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Yes.<br>
Have you read that document?<br>
<br>
This errata report does not request removal of that reference. It<br>
requests the addition of an extra reference. How is that a problem?<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
I see not problem with the addition of a reference in an IANA registry.<br>
<br>
I do see a problem with modifying the RFC by way of an errata.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">For those of you who have read around =
the subject, you may recall a<br>
prolonged series of emails across a number of mailing lists where a<br>
number of different new I-Ds were proposed to give a more substantive<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">reference for the tunnel type.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">This er=
rata report solves that issue without needing further documents.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Can the reference be added without the Erratum? That seems possible to me.<=
br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">You may also like to note that we are =
dealing with a FCFS registry<br>
where the documents supplied as references do not always provide a<br>
good explanation. Is it better to leave the registry with a poor<br>
reference, or to add a somewhat better one?<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Net-net, this RFC is not the right pla=
ce to be a pointer for this<br>
assignment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
I respect your right to hold that opinion, but I don't think you have<br>
given any valid reasons for holding it. Perhaps this lack is caused by<br>
unfamiliarity with FCFS registries.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
I am happy to be educated. I re-read the FCFS definition form RFC 5226. Why=
<br>
does RFC 7510 need to be modified for this?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
- Carlos.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)
Thread-Index: AQHQgSfbd29X5R9FSUyEbRgAx5Ve851iZF2A///tcgCAAF8RgIAAazmAgADluICAALP5AIAAIMeAgAACQAA=
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:30:05 +0000
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References: <20150427202110.525FF180092@rfc-editor.org> <553F3E2D.4060208@pi.nu> <D164DDF1.15B47%cpignata@cisco.com> <00d501d081af$b0a7ef00$11f7cd00$@olddog.co.uk> <6A69A0A7-6C76-4AB3-94A6-0D123DFE8459@cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08329BF2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <36AD6E96-92BE-4040-A7F0-F31570CE166E@cisco.com> <BY1PR0501MB1430882E5AAD51E40C603AC6A5D70@BY1PR0501MB1430.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
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Cc: "George Swallow \(swallow\)" <swallow@cisco.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Nischal Sheth <nsheth@juniper.net>, "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>, "Black, David" <david.black@emc.com>, Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" <aretana@cisco.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Xiaohu Xu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)
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Ross,

I agree with the reasoning you lay out =97 but I would add that there is =
a difference between updating an IANA registry with an extra citation =
(mostly harmless, possibly useful), versus updating a Standards Track =
RFC with an Erratum. I would further add that a reference description =
for how to use the Tunnel Type 13 is still missing, as RFC 7510 does not =
accomplish that.

Thanks!

=97 Carlos (speaking as Carlos)

> On Apr 29, 2015, at 5:22 PM, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> wrote:
>=20
> I may be a bit confused here regarding what sort of references are =
intended to be listed in the registry.
>=20
> Looking at the =93Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) Parameters=94, and =
scrolling down to =93BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Types=94, =
I see entries for various encapsulation types with various references. =
As some examples:
>=20
> For the GRE tunnel type, I see a reference to RFC5512. RFC 5512 is =
=93The BGP Encapsulation SAFI and the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation =
Attribute=94, and is specifically not the RFC that defines GRE.
>=20
> For the IPsec in Tunnel-mode tunnel type, I see a reference to RFC =
5566. Again RFC 5566 is not the RFC that specifies IPsec in Tunnel-mode.
>=20
> For the VXLAN tunnel type, I see a reference to =
draft-sd-l2vpn-evpn-overlay. One issue is that this is an out of date =
reference (draft-sd-l2vpn-evpn-overlay has been replaced by =
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay). More importantly, this again is not the =
document that defines VXLAN. Rather, draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay talks =
about how to use various encapsulations (of which VXLAN is one) along =
with BGP signaling to accomplish something.
>=20
> Thus to me, referencing RFC 7510 in this particular registry is not =
the same sort of reference that is included along with the other tunnel =
types. However, I don=92t see any problem with referencing the document =
that defines the tunnel method as an additional reference for each =
entry. If we are going to do this then perhaps we (for some definition =
of =93we=94) should also add other references to the registry, =
specifically the document that defines the tunnel mechanism for each of =
the other tunnel types.
>=20
> Ross (speaking as co-author of RFC 7510)
>=20
> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 3:25 PM
> To: Xiaohu Xu
> Cc: Adrian Farrel; Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; Nischal Sheth; =
Lucy yong; Ross Callon; Black, David; Alia Atlas; BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A; =
Alvaro Retana (aretana); George Swallow (swallow); mpls@ietf.org; =
bess@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)
>=20
> Hi Xiaohu,
>=20
> On Apr 29, 2015, at 4:40 AM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com =
<mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com>> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Carlos,
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com =
<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 2:58 AM
> To: Adrian Farrel
> Cc: Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; Xuxiaohu; nsheth@juniper.net =
<mailto:nsheth@juniper.net>; Lucy
> yong; Ross Callon; Black, David; Alia Atlas; BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A; =
Alvaro
> Retana (aretana); George Swallow (swallow); mpls@ietf.org =
<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)
>=20
> Hi, Adrian,
>=20
> Thanks for the additional context. Note that I did not object any =
changes made
> to the registry itself (although I still think that pointing to RFC =
7510 is incorrect),
> only to the errata. Modifying the data plane document to include an =
IANA action
> for BGP sounds off.
>=20
> In other words, I see two problems with the approach from the errata =
(or really
> two sides of the same issue):
>=20
> 1. RFC 7510 specifies the data plane encapsulation, and not the BGP =
signaling. As
> such, it does not make for a good reference for the BGP Tunnel =
Encapsulation
> Attribute Tunnel Type 13.
>=20
> 2. Existing entries in the "BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel =
Types"
> registry point to the documents which specify how that attribute is =
used.
>=20
> For example, the value 1, L2TPv3 over IP, points to RFC 5512 and not =
to RFC
> 3931. The value 2, GRE, points to RFC 5512 and not to RFC 2784. The =
value 4
> points to RFC 5566 and not to RFC4302, RFC4303.
>=20
> In fact, I had ever followed the above logic by specifying the BGP =
signaling for MPLS-in-UDP in a separate doc =
(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-softwire-encaps-udp-00 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-softwire-encaps-udp-00>) which has =
been moved to BESS WG (see =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-bess-encaps-udp-00 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-bess-encaps-udp-00>) recently. =
However=85
>=20
>=20
> I am not implying that a new I-D is necessarily required. I am saying =
that:
> 1. It seems a step was skipped with this Errata, where a BGP parameter =
points to a data plane definition, and
> 2. It appears to be technically incorrect, since there are two =
potential modes (with and without DTLS) but one entry only.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> =97 Carlos.
>=20
>=20
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>=20
>=20
> There is another technical problem with the current approach: RFC 7510
> specifies two UDP ports, for MPLS-in-UDP and MPLS-in-UDP with DTLS
> respectively. To which one of these two does the BGP Tunnel =
Encapsulation
> Attribute Tunnel Type value of 13 correspond to? Do you actually need =
two
> Types? Further, do you need to consider the LB from RFC 5640?
>=20
> Please see more inline.
>=20
>=20
> On Apr 28, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk =
<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Carlos,
>=20
> Since I raised the issue...
>=20
> The text that was omitted was agreed for inclusion between the RFC
> Editor, IANA, and responsible AD before the publication of the RFC,
> but was fumbled by the RFC Editor.
>=20
> The RFC Editor requested this report to be submitted to resolve this
> issue, and I checked with the ADs before I posted it.
>=20
> The problem it solves is that the existing registry entry points at an
> I-D that caused the allocation of the code point, but that I-D is not
> a good reference for explaining what "MPLS in UDP" is. This document
> provides a better indication.
>=20
>=20
> The reference should not explain what "MPLS in UDP" is. The reference =
should
> explain what is the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Type 13 =
for MPLS
> in UDP.
>=20
>=20
> You said...
>=20
>=20
> RFC 7510 states that it =B3specifies an IP-based encapsulation for
> MPLS, called MPLS-in-UDP=B2 but there is no mention to the
> specification of any signaling associated to setting up said
> encapsulation. In other words, it self-concerns itself with the encap.
>=20
> That is correct. And there is no attempt to define any signaling or
> add any mention of signaling to this document.
>=20
> This is not a forward pointer, but a request to include a backward
> pointer. That is, it is a request to update the entry that already
> exists in the registry with a pointer to this document so that people
> can see what "MPLS in UDP" is when they encounter the value in the =
registry.
>=20
>=20
> I understand. My comment is that the reference should not be to "MPLS =
in
> UDP". The same way that the Type 1 does not point to RFC 3931.
>=20
>=20
> Further, there is no mention in RFC 7510 of =B3BGP=B2 and no reference =
to
> RFC 5512. For a document specifying a BGP Tunnel Encapsulation
> Attribute Tunnel Type, I=B9d expect a reference (normative) to RFC =
5512
> (such as in RFC 5566).
>=20
> This document does not specify a BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute
> and there is no request for it to make such a specification.
>=20
> References could be included, but they would be pointless because
> there is nothing to hook the references to. The *only* change
> requested is to attach a pointer to the existing entry in the =
registry.
>=20
>=20
> Lastly, the IANA page points to a different document:
> http://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp- =
<http://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp->
> parameters.xhtml#tunnel-
> types
>=20
> Value     Name                                                     =
Reference
> 13           MPLS in UDP Encapsulation            =
[draft-ietf-l3vpn-end-system]
>=20
> Yes.
> Have you read that document?
>=20
> This errata report does not request removal of that reference. It
> requests the addition of an extra reference. How is that a problem?
>=20
>=20
> I see not problem with the addition of a reference in an IANA =
registry.
>=20
> I do see a problem with modifying the RFC by way of an errata.
>=20
>=20
> For those of you who have read around the subject, you may recall a
> prolonged series of emails across a number of mailing lists where a
> number of different new I-Ds were proposed to give a more substantive
> reference for the tunnel type.
>=20
> This errata report solves that issue without needing further =
documents.
>=20
>=20
> Can the reference be added without the Erratum? That seems possible to =
me.
>=20
>=20
> You may also like to note that we are dealing with a FCFS registry
> where the documents supplied as references do not always provide a
> good explanation. Is it better to leave the registry with a poor
> reference, or to add a somewhat better one?
>=20
>=20
> Net-net, this RFC is not the right place to be a pointer for this
> assignment.
>=20
> I respect your right to hold that opinion, but I don't think you have
> given any valid reasons for holding it. Perhaps this lack is caused by
> unfamiliarity with FCFS registries.
>=20
>=20
> I am happy to be educated. I re-read the FCFS definition form RFC =
5226. Why
> does RFC 7510 need to be modified for this?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> - Carlos.
>=20
>=20
> Adrian


--Apple-Mail=_6473ECBE-E0DA-4292-A227-CEDBE16269E7
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	charset=windows-1252

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Ross,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I =
agree with the reasoning you lay out =97 but I would add that there is a =
difference between updating an IANA registry with an extra citation =
(mostly harmless, possibly useful), versus updating a&nbsp;Standards =
Track RFC with an Erratum. I would further add that a reference =
description for how to use the Tunnel Type 13 is still missing, as RFC =
7510 does not accomplish that.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks!</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=97 Carlos (speaking as =
Carlos)</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
 class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Apr 29, 2015, at 5:22 PM, Ross Callon =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net" =
class=3D"">rcallon@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I may be a bit confused here regarding =
what sort of references are intended to be listed in the registry.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Looking at the =93Border =
Gateway Protocol (BGP) Parameters=94, and scrolling down to =93BGP =
Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Types=94, I see entries for =
various encapsulation types with various references. As some =
examples:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">For the GRE tunnel =
type, I see a reference to RFC5512. RFC 5512 is =93The BGP Encapsulation =
SAFI and the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute=94, and is specifically =
not the RFC that defines GRE.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">For the IPsec in =
Tunnel-mode tunnel type, I see a reference to RFC 5566. Again RFC 5566 =
is not the RFC that specifies IPsec in Tunnel-mode.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">For the VXLAN tunnel =
type, I see a reference to draft-sd-l2vpn-evpn-overlay. One issue is =
that this is an out of date reference (draft-sd-l2vpn-evpn-overlay has =
been replaced by draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay). More importantly, this =
again is not the document that defines VXLAN. Rather, =
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay talks about how to use various =
encapsulations (of which VXLAN is one) along with BGP signaling to =
accomplish something.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Thus to me, referencing =
RFC 7510 in this particular registry is not the same sort of reference =
that is included along with the other tunnel types. However, I don=92t =
see any problem with referencing the document that defines the tunnel =
method as an additional reference for each entry. If we are going to do =
this then perhaps we (for some definition of =93we=94) should also add =
other references to the registry, specifically the document that defines =
the tunnel mechanism for each of the other tunnel types.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Ross (speaking as =
co-author of RFC 7510)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) =
[<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" =
class=3D"">mailto:cpignata@cisco.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Wednesday, April 29, 2015 =
3:25 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Xiaohu Xu<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Adrian Farrel; Loa =
Andersson; RFC Errata System; Nischal Sheth; Lucy yong; Ross Callon; =
Black, David; Alia Atlas; BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A; Alvaro Retana (aretana); =
George Swallow (swallow); <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mpls@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">bess@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [mpls] [Editorial =
Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Hi Xiaohu,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On =
Apr 29, 2015, at 4:40 AM, Xuxiaohu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">xuxiaohu@huawei.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi Carlos,<br =
class=3D""><br style=3D"orphans: auto; text-align: start; widows: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">-----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">From: =
Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:cpignata@cisco.com</a>]<br class=3D"">Sent: Wednesday, =
April 29, 2015 2:58 AM<br class=3D"">To: Adrian Farrel<br class=3D"">Cc: =
Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; Xuxiaohu;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:nsheth@juniper.net" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">nsheth@juniper.net</a>; Lucy<br =
class=3D"">yong; Ross Callon; Black, David; Alia Atlas; BRUNGARD, =
DEBORAH A; Alvaro<br class=3D"">Retana (aretana); George Swallow =
(swallow);<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">mpls@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">Subject: Re: =
[mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7510 (4350)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Hi, Adrian,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks for the =
additional context. Note that I did not object any changes made<br =
class=3D"">to the registry itself (although I still think that pointing =
to RFC 7510 is incorrect),<br class=3D"">only to the errata. Modifying =
the data plane document to include an IANA action<br class=3D"">for BGP =
sounds off.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">In other words, I see two =
problems with the approach from the errata (or really<br class=3D"">two =
sides of the same issue):<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">1. RFC 7510 =
specifies the data plane encapsulation, and not the BGP signaling. As<br =
class=3D"">such, it does not make for a good reference for the BGP =
Tunnel Encapsulation<br class=3D"">Attribute Tunnel Type 13.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">2. Existing entries in the "BGP Tunnel =
Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Types"<br class=3D"">registry point to =
the documents which specify how that attribute is used.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">For example, the value 1, L2TPv3 over IP, points to RFC 5512 =
and not to RFC<br class=3D"">3931. The value 2, GRE, points to RFC 5512 =
and not to RFC 2784. The value 4<br class=3D"">points to RFC 5566 and =
not to RFC4302, RFC4303.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">In fact, =
I had ever followed the above logic by specifying the BGP signaling for =
MPLS-in-UDP in a separate doc (</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-softwire-encaps-udp-00" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-softwire-encaps-udp-00</sp=
an></a><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">) which has been moved to BESS WG (see<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-bess-encaps-udp-00" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-bess-encaps-udp-00</span><=
/a><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">) recently. However=85<br style=3D"orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; widows: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">I am not implying that a new I-D is necessarily required. I =
am saying that:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">1. It seems a step was skipped with this =
Errata, where a BGP parameter points to a data plane definition, and<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">2. It appears to be technically incorrect, since there are =
two potential modes (with and without DTLS) but one entry only.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">=97 Carlos.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Best regards,<br =
class=3D"">Xiaohu<br class=3D""><br style=3D"orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; widows: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">There is another =
technical problem with the current approach: RFC 7510<br =
class=3D"">specifies two UDP ports, for MPLS-in-UDP and MPLS-in-UDP with =
DTLS<br class=3D"">respectively. To which one of these two does the BGP =
Tunnel Encapsulation<br class=3D"">Attribute Tunnel Type value of 13 =
correspond to? Do you actually need two<br class=3D"">Types? Further, do =
you need to consider the LB from RFC 5640?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Please see more inline.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">On Apr 28, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Adrian Farrel =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Hi Carlos,<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Since I raised the issue...<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The =
text that was omitted was agreed for inclusion between the RFC<br =
class=3D"">Editor, IANA, and responsible AD before the publication of =
the RFC,<br class=3D"">but was fumbled by the RFC Editor.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">The RFC Editor requested this report to be =
submitted to resolve this<br class=3D"">issue, and I checked with the =
ADs before I posted it.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The problem it =
solves is that the existing registry entry points at an<br class=3D"">I-D =
that caused the allocation of the code point, but that I-D is not<br =
class=3D"">a good reference for explaining what "MPLS in UDP" is. This =
document<br class=3D"">provides a better indication.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">The reference should not explain what "MPLS in =
UDP" is. The reference should<br class=3D"">explain what is the BGP =
Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Type 13 for MPLS<br class=3D"">in =
UDP.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">You said...<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">RFC 7510 states that it =B3specifies an IP-based =
encapsulation for<br class=3D"">MPLS, called MPLS-in-UDP=B2 but there is =
no mention to the<br class=3D"">specification of any signaling =
associated to setting up said<br class=3D"">encapsulation. In other =
words, it self-concerns itself with the encap.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">That is correct. And there is no =
attempt to define any signaling or<br class=3D"">add any mention of =
signaling to this document.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">This is not a =
forward pointer, but a request to include a backward<br =
class=3D"">pointer. That is, it is a request to update the entry that =
already<br class=3D"">exists in the registry with a pointer to this =
document so that people<br class=3D"">can see what "MPLS in UDP" is when =
they encounter the value in the registry.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I understand. My comment is that the reference =
should not be to "MPLS in<br class=3D"">UDP". The same way that the Type =
1 does not point to RFC 3931.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Further, there is no =
mention in RFC 7510 of =B3BGP=B2 and no reference to<br class=3D"">RFC =
5512. For a document specifying a BGP Tunnel Encapsulation<br =
class=3D"">Attribute Tunnel Type, I=B9d expect a reference (normative) =
to RFC 5512<br class=3D"">(such as in RFC 5566).<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">This document does not specify a =
BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute<br class=3D"">and there is no request =
for it to make such a specification.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">References could be included, but they would be pointless =
because<br class=3D"">there is nothing to hook the references to. The =
*only* change<br class=3D"">requested is to attach a pointer to the =
existing entry in the registry.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Lastly, the IANA page points to a different =
document:<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">http://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-</a><br =
class=3D"">parameters.xhtml#tunnel-<br class=3D"">types<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Value<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>Name<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>Reference<br =
class=3D"">13<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>MPLS in =
UDP Encapsulation<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>[draft-ietf-l3vpn-end-=
system]<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">Yes.<br class=3D"">Have you read =
that document?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">This errata report does not =
request removal of that reference. It<br class=3D"">requests the =
addition of an extra reference. How is that a problem?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I see not problem with the addition of a =
reference in an IANA registry.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I do see a =
problem with modifying the RFC by way of an errata.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">For those of you who =
have read around the subject, you may recall a<br class=3D"">prolonged =
series of emails across a number of mailing lists where a<br =
class=3D"">number of different new I-Ds were proposed to give a more =
substantive<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">reference for the tunnel type.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">This errata report solves that issue without =
needing further documents.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">Can the =
reference be added without the Erratum? That seems possible to me.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">You may also like to note that we are dealing with a FCFS =
registry<br class=3D"">where the documents supplied as references do not =
always provide a<br class=3D"">good explanation. Is it better to leave =
the registry with a poor<br class=3D"">reference, or to add a somewhat =
better one?<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Net-net, this RFC is not the right place to be a pointer for =
this<br class=3D"">assignment.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">I respect =
your right to hold that opinion, but I don't think you have<br =
class=3D"">given any valid reasons for holding it. Perhaps this lack is =
caused by<br class=3D"">unfamiliarity with FCFS registries.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I am happy to be educated. I re-read the FCFS =
definition form RFC 5226. Why<br class=3D"">does RFC 7510 need to be =
modified for this?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">- Carlos.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Adrian</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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