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From: "Samer Salam (ssalam)" <ssalam@cisco.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
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Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 11:34:11 +0000
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References: <FFF3CF97-1E3F-4DCF-8681-2B801FBABFA1@nokia.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/JuDYXnICi5iS_2inw4iCsceJRl8>
Subject: Re: [bess] WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
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From: Zhuangshunwan <zhuangshunwan@huawei.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
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Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 11:43:50 +0000
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 09:23:24 -0700
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To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Cc: "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org>,  "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
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Hi Matthew, Stephane, et al.,
my apologies for the late response.

I support the publication of this document. It is important for the EVPN
OAM solutions work.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 3:55 AM Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <
matthew.bocci@nokia.com> wrote:

> This email starts a two-week working group last call for
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
>
>
>
> Please review the draft and send any comments to the BESS list. Also,
> please indicate if you support publishing the draft as a standards track
> RFC.
>
>
>
> This poll runs until Monday 29th June 2020.
>
>
>
> We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to
> this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with
> IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this document please
> respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
> relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from
> all the Authors and Contributors.
>
> There is currently no IPR disclosed.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Matthew & Stephane
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Matthew, Stephane, et al.,<div>my apologies for the lat=
e response.</div><div><br><div>I support the publication of this document. =
It is important for the EVPN OAM solutions work.</div></div><div><br></div>=
<div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 3:55 AM Bocci, Ma=
tthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:matthew.bocci@nokia.com">matthew.b=
occi@nokia.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padd=
ing-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-GB">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_854841606015561930WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This emai=
l starts a two-week working group last call for
</span><span style=3D"color:black">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Please re=
view the draft and send any comments to the BESS list. Also, please indicat=
e if you support publishing the draft as a standards track RFC.</span><span=
 style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This=C2=
=A0poll=C2=A0runs until Monday 29th=C2=A0June 2020.</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We are also=C2=A0polling=
 for knowledge of any undisclosed=C2=A0IPR=C2=A0that applies to this Docume=
nt, to ensure that=C2=A0IPR=C2=A0has been disclosed in compliance with IETF=
=C2=A0IPR=C2=A0rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669
 and 5378 for more details).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an =
Author or a Contributor of this document please respond to this email and i=
ndicate whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed=C2=A0IPR. =
The Document won&#39;t
 progress without answers from all the Authors and Contributors.=C2=A0<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:b=
lack">There is currently no=C2=A0IPR=C2=A0disclosed.=C2=A0=C2=A0</span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:b=
lack">Thank you,</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black"><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:b=
lack">Matthew &amp; Stephane</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:blac=
k"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: "Parag Jain (paragj)" <paragj@cisco.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 16:50:20 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
To: "Parag Jain (paragj)" <paragj=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
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Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 16:59:09 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/KD5cZ6ErMpoYP1VO0PUgPFGOCFI>
Subject: Re: [bess] WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
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From: "Satya Mohanty (satyamoh)" <satyamoh@cisco.com>
To: "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" <mankamis=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
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Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2020 03:16:14 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
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From nobody Thu Jul  2 02:19:13 2020
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From: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
To: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, "Parag Jain (paragj)" <paragj=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
Thread-Index: AQHWT8e0tdntZu+HGUSYAhiCN676yKjzE9SAgAEBCoA=
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2020 09:19:06 +0000
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--_000_9F43F969ED2141AD90527239DC440A09nokiacom_--


From nobody Thu Jul  2 06:19:11 2020
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Controller Based BGP Multicast Signaling
        Authors         : Zhaohui Zhang
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Dante Pacella
                          Arkadiy Gulko
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller-02.txt
	Pages           : 14
	Date            : 2020-07-02

Abstract:
   This document specifies a way that one or more centralized
   controllers can use BGP to set up a multicast distribution tree in a
   network.  In the case of labeled tree, the labels are assigned by the
   controllers either from the controllers' local label spaces, or from
   a common Segment Routing Global Block (SRGB), or from each routers
   Segment Routing Local Block (SRLB) that the controllers learn.  In
   case of labeled unidirectional tree and label allocation from the
   common SRGB or from the controllers' local spaces, a single common
   label can be used for all routers on the tree to send and receive
   traffic with.  Since the controllers calculate the trees, they can
   use sophisticated algorithms and constraints to achieve traffic
   engineering.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller-02
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



From nobody Thu Jul  2 17:23:52 2020
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Subject: [bess] bess - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 108
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Dear mankamana mishra,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by
the original request. 


    bess Session 1 (1:40 requested)
    Tuesday, 28 July 2020, Session I 1100-1240
    Room Name: Room 5 size: 5
    ---------------------------------------------


iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/sessions/bess.ics

Request Information:


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: BGP Enabled ServiceS
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: mankamana mishra


Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  100 Minutes
Number of Attendees: 100
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 Chair Conflict: idr nvo3
 Technology Overlap: spring sfc mpls pim bier pals
 Key Participant Conflict: i2rs





People who must be present:
  Matthew Bocci
  Martin Vigoureux
  Stephane Litkowski
  mankamana prasad mishra

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------



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Subject: [bess] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding
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Hello,

I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. =
The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related =
drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and =
sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide =
assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing =
Directorate, please see =
=E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it =
would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF =
Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through =
discussion or by updating the draft.

Document: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding
Reviewer: Russ White
Review Date: 2 July 2020
Intended Status: Standards

Summary:

No issues found. This document is ready for publication.

Comments:

This draft is very readable, with good figures and explanations.=20

Major Issues:

No major issues found.

Minor Issues:

No minor issues found.

/r


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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping-02.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : LSP-Ping Mechanisms for EVPN and PBB-EVPN
        Authors         : Parag Jain
                          Samer Salam
                          Ali Sajassi
                          Sami Boutros
                          Greg Mirsky
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping-02.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2020-07-02

Abstract:
   LSP-Ping is a widely deployed Operation, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) mechanism in MPLS networks.  This document
   describes mechanisms for detecting data-plane failures using LSP Ping
   in MPLS based EVPN and PBB-EVPN networks.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping-02
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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Subject: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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Hello WG,

 

This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping-02 [1].

 

This poll runs until * the 20th Of July *.

 

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to
this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please
respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from
all the Authors and Contributors. 

There is currently no IPR disclosed.

 

If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly
respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in
conformance with IETF rules.

 

We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2]. 

 

Thank you,

Stephane & Matthew

 

[1]  <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping/

[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw

 


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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hello WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>This email starts a two weeks =
Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping-02 =
[1].<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>This poll runs until * the 20<sup>th</sup> Of July =
*.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>We are also polling for knowledge of any =
undisclosed IPR that applies to this Document, to ensure that IPR has =
been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, =
3669 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of =
this Document please respond to this email and indicate whether or not =
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progress without answers from all the Authors and =
Contributors.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>There is currently no IPR =
disclosed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>If you are not listed as an Author or a =
Contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any =
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF =
rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>We are also polling for any existing implementation =
as per [2]. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>Stephane &amp; Matthew<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>[1] </span><a =
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<span =
lang=3DEN-US>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-pi=
ng/</span></a><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>[2] <a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdk=
jqDpw" =
target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vP=
C4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : EVPN Operations, Administration and Maintenance Requirements and Framework
        Authors         : Samer Salam
                          Ali Sajassi
                          Sam Aldrin
                          John E. Drake
                          Donald E. Eastlake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-03.txt
	Pages           : 19
	Date            : 2020-07-03

Abstract:
   This document specifies the requirements and reference framework for
   Ethernet VPN (EVPN) Operations, Administration and Maintenance (OAM).
   The requirements cover the OAM aspects of EVPN and PBB-EVPN.  The
   framework defines the layered OAM model encompassing the EVPN service
   layer, network layer and underlying Packet Switched Network (PSN)
   transport layer.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



From nobody Fri Jul  3 07:50:35 2020
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From: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 10:50:19 -0400
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Subject: Re: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-03.txt
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This revision includes the resolution of comments by Xiao Min as
discussed on this mailing list.

Thanks,
Donald
===============================
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA
 d3e3e3@gmail.com

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 10:38 AM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.
>
>         Title           : EVPN Operations, Administration and Maintenance Requirements and Framework
>         Authors         : Samer Salam
>                           Ali Sajassi
>                           Sam Aldrin
>                           John E. Drake
>                           Donald E. Eastlake
>         Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-03.txt
>         Pages           : 19
>         Date            : 2020-07-03
>
> Abstract:
>    This document specifies the requirements and reference framework for
>    Ethernet VPN (EVPN) Operations, Administration and Maintenance (OAM).
>    The requirements cover the OAM aspects of EVPN and PBB-EVPN.  The
>    framework defines the layered OAM model encompassing the EVPN service
>    layer, network layer and underlying Packet Switched Network (PSN)
>    transport layer.
>
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-03
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-03
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-03
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess


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From: "Parag Jain (paragj)" <paragj@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:41:49 -0700
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Cc: BESS <bess@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org,  bess-chairs@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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Hi Stephane, Matthew, et al.,
as a co-author, I am not aware of any IPR related to this document.
I support the publication of this draft as a co-author. It is based on the
proven MPLS LSP Ping. The document describes the essential on-demand OAM
for MPLS-based EPVN and PBB-EVPN networks supporting loos of continuity
detection and defect localization.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:29 AM <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello WG,
>
>
>
> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping-02 [1].
>
>
>
> This poll runs until * the 20th Of July *.
>
>
>
> We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to
> this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with
> IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please
> respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
> relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from
> all the Authors and Contributors.
>
> There is currently no IPR disclosed.
>
>
>
> If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please
> explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been
> disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>
>
> We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Stephane & Matthew
>
>
>
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping/
>
> [2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw
>
>
>

--0000000000003df5c205a9a1ff62
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Stephane, Matthew, et al.,<div>as a co-author, I am not=
 aware of any IPR related to this document.</div><div>I support the publica=
tion of this draft as a co-author. It is based on the proven MPLS LSP Ping.=
 The document describes the essential on-demand OAM for MPLS-based EPVN and=
 PBB-EVPN networks supporting loos of continuity detection and defect local=
ization.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul =
3, 2020 at 6:29 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.com">slitkows.=
ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-7598005764175919476Wo=
rdSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello WG,<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This email start=
s a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping-02 [=
1].<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thi=
s poll runs until * the 20<sup>th</sup> Of July *.<u></u><u></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"gmail-m_-7598005764175919476gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-=
6487177298439282362msoplaintext"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We are also polling f=
or knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this Document, to ensur=
e that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3=
979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<u></u><u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"gmail-m_-7598005764175919476gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177=
298439282362msoplaintext"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you are listed as an Auth=
or or a Contributor of this Document please respond to this email and indic=
ate whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR. The Docum=
ent won&#39;t progress without answers from all the Authors and Contributor=
s.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_-7598005764175919476gm=
ail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintext"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">There is currently no IPR disclosed.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"gmail-m_-7598005764175919476gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-64=
87177298439282362msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_-7598005764175919476=
gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintext"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US">If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then ple=
ase explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet be=
en disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"gmail-m_-7598005764175919476gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-648717=
7298439282362msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_-7598005764175919476gmai=
l-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintext"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2]. =
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_-7598005764175919476gmail-m-35=
66480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintext"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_-7598005764175919476=
gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintext"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US">Thank you,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_-75980=
05764175919476gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplai=
ntext"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Stephane &amp; Matthew<u></u><u></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[1] </span><a href=3D"https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping/" target=3D"_blank"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-l=
sp-ping/</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[2] <a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf=
.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw" target=3D"_blank">https://m=
ailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div>

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Hello again, Alvaro.

> > DISCUSS:
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> (1) Controllers and other nodes.
>>...
>> So, you are right and we are highlighting it in the security section, =
and
>> we can note the existing mitigations in a BGP-based routing system =
against
>> rogue players.
>
> You didn't explicitly say so, but it looks like this may be the added =
text:
>
>   Similarly, there is a vulnerablity if a rogue or subverted =
controller
>   announces SFPs especially if that controller "takes over" an =
existing
>   SFP and changes its contents.  This is corresponds to a rogue BGP
>   speaker entering a routing system, or even to a Route Reflector
>   becoming subverted.  Protection mechanisms, as above, include
>   securing BGP sessions and protecting software loads on the
>   controllers.
>
> [nit] s/vulnerablity/vulnerability

Thanks

> Authentication helps, but it doesn't stop an authenticated subverted
> node from taking over control of an SFP.
>
> Maybe I haven't been clear with my concern.  I am concerned about
> authorization of the BGP speaker to even act as a controller -- this
> is akin to route origin validation: should a BGP speaker even be
> generating SFPRs?  In "normal" BGP a mitigation against invalid
> origination is ingress filtering -- in this case, a mitigation might
> be for the operator to receive (using an access list, for example)
> SFPRs originated by only some nodes.

So, to be clear, you are worried about what happens to the routing =
infrastructure if one node gets subverted, and you believe that a =
combination of something akin to route origin validation and ingress =
filtering would help.=20

Obviously (?) it is intended (and even stated) that SFPRs are originated =
only by controllers, and as we say, "We assume that the Controllers have =
BGP connectivity to all SFFs and all Classifiers within each service =
function overlay network." That means that we are not relying on BGP =
peer-to-peer relay of SFPR advertisements, but they are injected to the =
SFFs direct. Thus, your concern is mitigated by making sure that the =
SFF/controller relationship is known and authenticated, except for the =
case when the controller has been subverted.

I don't, in this case, see how route origin validation or ingress =
filtering would help us. A subverted controller in this case is like =
having two NMSes (or two SDN controllers) in a network with both =
intended to be able to manage the network in parallel: what do you do if =
one is subverted?

I think, here, we are discussing the wrong approach to a solution. A =
protocol solution cannot protect against the subversion of a component =
that is otherwise authorised to act.

We can, however, make sure that only nodes that are authorised to be =
controllers are allowed to speak as controllers. An approach here would =
be to configure each SFF with the identities of the controllers that it =
accepts. (This, for example, is what is usually done with NMSes. Note =
that in the PCE world, a PCC can be configured with the identities of he =
PCEs or it can discover them).  I think we might add...

"In an environment where there is concern that rogue Controllers might =
be introduced to the network and inject false SFPRs or take over and =
change existing SFPRs, it is RECOMMENDED that each SFF and Classifier be =
configured with the identities of authorised Controllers.  Thus, the =
announcement of an SFPR by any other BGP peer would be rejected."

Would that be good?

>>> (2) New Flow Specification Traffic Filtering Action
>...
>> I said:
>> : Hmmm, we don't tent to explain why "MUST NOT" in our =
specifications.
>> : The reasoning here is that it would be highly confusing to mix and =
match
>> : SFC Classification with BGP routing. Perhaps I am wrong about that
>> : confusion.
>> : I think that when you program an SFC classifier, that is a single =
peer-to-
>> : peer communication targeted at an SFC Classifier.
>> : A 5575-only node will not be a classifier.
>>
>> You responded:
>> | I raised this point as a DISCUSS because the text is at odds with =
other
>> | standards track documents. That is the reason I'm asking for an
>> | explanation.
>
> You missed the second part of my response (to the last couple of =
sentences):
>
> You>
>   I think that when you program an SFC classifier, that is a single
>   peer-to-peer communication targeted at an SFC Classifier.
>   A 5575-only node will not be a classifier.
>
> Me>
>   That is the type of operational considerations that I would like to =
see
>   the document include.
>
> That's all I'm looking for.  By "isolating" the communication from
> potential rfc5575bis-only nodes you eliminate my concern.

OK, we can work something out.

How about:

         Note that implementation of this section of this specification =
will be
         Controllers or Classifiers communicating with each other =
directly for the purpose of instructing the
         Classifier how to place packets onto an SFP.  In order that the =
implementation of Classifiers can be
         kept simple and to avoid the confusion between the purpose of =
different extended communities, a
         Controller MUST NOT include other action extended communities =
at the same time as a "Flow Specification
         for SFC Classifiers" extended community: the inclusion of the =
"Flow Specification for SFC Classifiers"=20
         action extended community along with any other action MUST be =
treated by an implementation of this
         specification as an error which SHOULD result in the Flow =
Specification UPDATE message being handled
         as Treat-as-withdraw according to <xref target=3D"RFC7606" /> =
Section 2.

> BTW, I didn't mention this before...  You use both rfc5575 and
> I-D.ietf-idr-rfc5575bis as Normative references.  rfc5575bis is
> already in the RFC Editor's queue, so you really only need that one.

Yeah, time flies and rfc5575bis has overtaken us. That's good and I'll =
do the update.

>>> (3) Use of the Control Plane
...
>> And you said...
>>
>> | Everywhere I look at (=C2=A73.2, =C2=A74.3, for example) seems to =
indicate to me
>> | that an SFT is necessary in the definition of the SPF. I may of =
course be
>> | wrong or have missed where it clearly isn't. An example of how to =
do
>> | it would be very useful.
>>
>> We see a number of types discussed
>> - in this document
>> - RFC 7665
>
> Ok...so you now added to the table in =C2=A710.5.  Some of the new =
values
> are not defined in this document, please add references to where they
> are described.

OK, can do that. Slightly worried that the IANA section is not supposed =
to be a place to include references for information, but doing it =
anyway.

>> - =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgp-ls-sr-service-segments-02=
#section-4.1
>> - =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgp-ls-sr-service-segments-02=
#section-4.2
>>
>> We have decided to group these all together and request population of =
the
>> registry in Section 10.5.
>> We are discussing with the authors of
>> draft-dawra-idr-bgp-ls-sr-service-segments precisely what we should =
include
>> and what they will ask for in their own draft.
>
> draft-dawra-idr-bgp-ls-sr-service-segments needs "service types" and
> "function identifiers" for purposes other than implementing this SFC
> control plane.

Not sure you're right. That draft defines "Service Type" in a section =
called "BGP-LS Extensions for Service Chaining" and includes them in the =
Service Chaining TLV.

> I would still like to hear from the AD/sfc-chairs about whether there
> is interest in the sfc WG to take advantage of the control plane.

Since this part of the Discuss is not actionable by the authors, I leave =
you to talk to the AD/SFC chairs direct. All I can do is point you to =
the discussions that happened on the SFC list.

>>> COMMENT:
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
...
>>> (4) =C2=A73.1.1/=C2=A73.1.2: The two new Extended Communities are =
defined as
>>> different types. Is it really necessary to request two different =
types,
>>> instead of one type with sub-types? The transitive space is not =
close to
>>> exhaustion, but having a single type would make it easier for any =
future
>>> SFC-related extended communities to be identified/grouped. Just a
>>> thought...
>>
>> Yeah, that's an easy change.
>
> You're creating the new SFC Extended Community Sub-Types Registry, so
> you can go ahead and assign the TBD7/TBD8 values.

Thanks, you made me notice that I didn't tell IANA what the size of the =
registry is.

Adrian


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From: "Samer Salam (ssalam)" <ssalam@cisco.com>
To: "Parag Jain (paragj)" <paragj@cisco.com>, "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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Subject: Re: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG adoption and IPR poll for draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-07
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Support, and I'm not aware of any IPR

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 8:14 AM
To: bess@ietf.org
Subject: [bess] WG adoption and IPR poll for draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-us=
age-07

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

Hello,

This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sd=
wan-usage-07 [1] ..

Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document won't progr=
ess without answers from all the authors and contributors.
Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.

This poll for adoption closes on 7th July 2020.

Regards,
Matthew and Stephane

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/<htt=
ps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-bess-=
bgp-sdwan-usage/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!VnmjHUICK9NAcjLa5m2LAr4LW2LMVljprpaAUqCU1p=
EDgHy-0B-RX4CxexTaN1Y$>



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Support, and I&#821=
7;m not aware of any IPR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Yours Irrespectivel=
y,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">John<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
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span></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;margin=
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<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> BESS &lt;bess-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>slitkows.ietf@gmail.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 23, 2020 8:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] WG adoption and IPR poll for draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-s=
dwan-usage-07<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Hello,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">This email begins a two-w=
eeks WG adoption poll for draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-07 [1] ..<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Please review the draft a=
nd post any comments to the BESS working group list.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We are also&nbsp;polling =
for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this Document, to ensu=
re that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs =
3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">If you are listed as an a=
uthor or a contributor of this document, please respond to this email and i=
ndicate whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copyi=
ng the BESS mailing list. The document
 won't progress without answers from all the authors and contributors.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Currently, there are no I=
PR disclosures against this document.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">If you are not listed as =
an author or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are =
aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF r=
ules.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">This poll for adoption cl=
oses on 7th July 2020.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Matthew and Stephane<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[1]&nbsp;<span lang=3D"FR=
"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!VnmjHUICK9NAcjLa5m2LAr4LW2=
LMVljprpaAUqCU1pEDgHy-0B-RX4CxexTaN1Y$"><span lang=3D"EN-US">https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/</span></a></span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
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Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 16:05:22 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/uETh1YStkBweBT8nvu6tSL_LL5Y>
Subject: Re: [bess] WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-02
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Support, and not aware of any IPR

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:56 AM
To: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org
Subject: WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-0=
2

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

This email starts a two-week working group last call for draft-ietf-bess-ev=
pn-oam-req-frmwk-02

Please review the draft and send any comments to the BESS list. Also, pleas=
e indicate if you support publishing the draft as a standards track RFC.

This poll runs until Monday 29th June 2020.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this document please res=
pond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevan=
t undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from all the=
 Authors and Contributors.
There is currently no IPR disclosed.
Thank you,
Matthew & Stephane


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Support, and not aw=
are of any IPR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Yours Irrespectivel=
y,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">John<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;margin=
-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
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0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;matthew.b=
occi@nokia.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 15, 2020 6:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> WG Last Call and IPR Poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-=
frmwk-02<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p>=
</span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-G=
B">This email starts a two-week working group last call for
</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-=
req-frmwk-02<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-G=
B">Please review the draft and send any comments to the BESS list. Also, pl=
ease indicate if you support publishing the draft as a standards track RFC.=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-G=
B">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-langu=
age:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-G=
B">This&nbsp;poll&nbsp;runs until Monday 29th&nbsp;June 2020.</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-G=
B">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-langu=
age:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-fareas=
t-language:EN-GB">We are also&nbsp;polling for knowledge of any undisclosed=
&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;that applies to this Document, to ensure that&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;=
has been disclosed in compliance with IETF&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;rules (see RFCs
 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-fareas=
t-language:EN-GB">If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this d=
ocument please respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aw=
are of any relevant undisclosed&nbsp;IPR. The
 Document won't progress without answers from all the Authors and Contribut=
ors.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:E=
N-GB">There is currently no&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;disclosed.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language=
:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:E=
N-GB">Thank you,</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:E=
N-GB">Matthew &amp; Stephane</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
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From: "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" <mankamis@cisco.com>
To: Jiang He <jiang.he@ericsson.com>
CC: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] problem to subscribe to bess mail list
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 18:33:19 -0400
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Subject: Re: [bess] New version: draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-07.txt
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Hi Adrian

Just checking if you had a chance to look at my comments on the draft.

Kind Regards

Gyan

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 2:55 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Adrian & Authors
>
> I support the draft and the problems it is trying to address with SR-TR
> steering over multiple AS hops and the GW auto discovery features.
>
> I do have a few questions on the latest draft. I read through the
> discussion with Boris and has some additional follow on questions.
>
> In the Intro section 1 describing the problem statement it is said that
> load balancing cannot occur as only one best path is chosen which is true=
.
> However if you enabled eibgp multipath  maximum paths set that both paths
> as long as BGP path selection all attributes are equal traffic can be
> easily load balanced between AS2 and egress SR domain.
>
> It is not mentioned if AS2 is IP only or mpls IP VPN domain and if a rout=
e
> reflector exist. I think that is important to mention as this gateway aut=
o
> discovery feature uses  RT extended community set and so if the core is I=
P
> VPN used that does complicate the architecture as now SAF 1 now stacked
> with SAFI 128.  I have more questions on that topic discussed further dow=
n.
>
>  In that scenario as long as RD is auto on the PEs and eibgp multipath is
> enabled the RR will reflect multiple paths by unique RF and traffic can b=
e
> load balanced from AS2 to egress SR domain.  For load balancing you would
> not want to do =E2=80=9Cadd paths=E2=80=9D as you would still only have o=
ne valid/best path
> in BGP best path selection. Also as =E2=80=9Cadd paths=E2=80=9D is genera=
lly used BGP PIC
> edge to advertise and pre program backup paths but is completely orthogon=
al
> to load balancing goal.
>
> So now the real problem is not that load balancing won=E2=80=99t work in =
AS2 but
> rather that the GW1 GW2 next hops are not propagated to AS1.
>
> What if you used the basic construct from inter-as option C RR to RR eBGP
> vpn peering and did the same from the SR egress domain GW1 GW2 ebgp
> multihop with next hop unchanged to AS1 ASBRs transit peers over the AS2
> and that would propagate GW1 GW2 next hops.  On the ebgp multi hop peers
> between SR egress domain and AS2 you could mesh the peering so each ASBR =
in
> AS2 peers with both GW1 and GW2 and you could enable ebgp multipath to lo=
ad
> balance over next hops to both gateways.
>
> I read through this draft that was referenced and it talks about the
> concept of DC to DC or any external edge SR domain and traffic steering
> with SR-TE binding SID end to end steering.  In that drafts context the
> backbone is  MPLS or SR-MPLS or IP.
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-farrel-spring-sr-domain-inter=
connect-05
>
>
> For the gateway draft for clarity it would be good to specify if the AS2
> backbone could actually be the following flavors IP, MPLS with global tab=
le
> routing native BGP to the edge, MPLS IP VPN, SR-MPLS IP VPN, SRv6 IP VPN.
> Maybe also mention from a topology level with or without Route Reflector =
in
> AS2.
>
> Section 3 GW auto discovery questions
>
> So each edge SR domain has an SR domain identifier which identifies all
> GWs in the domain and is unique to the domain and all prefixes exported
> have RT value for which is the SR domain identifier.
>
> Please specify if RT type O, 1, 2 used or any or if it matters.  I think
> AS:NN  type 0 or 4 would be appropriate to account for 2 byte and 4 byte
> ASN - RT nomenclature to embed the domain identifier would make sense as
> the edges AS could be the X:Y X value and the Y could be the unique domai=
n
> identifier.
>
> I noticed SAFI 4 BGP-LU is in the list of SAFI.  That is traditionally
> used for inter-as L3 VPN optC or CsC flavors.  In the context of SR as th=
is
> draft is geared towards if you are using SR-TE with binding sid policy
> across each AS hop NNI boundary stitching the steered path you would not
> need BGP-LU.  Also if the AS 2 core is MPLS only then would you need BGP-=
LU
> and only if using option C.  There are caveats with other inter-as option=
s
> related to multicast MVPN that recommends stacking BGP-LU as well for mLD=
P
> inband signaling.
>
> That  is all the more reason to be crystal clear on the topology of the
> transit ASs in the mix here - AS 2 and AS 1  and if it=E2=80=99s every po=
ssible
> flavor then we should state that as well.
>
> I think from a operators standpoint it would make sense to have the draft
> account for all AS2 transport backbone flavors that are possible and
> account for how this solution would work for every flavor as their maybe
> lots of caveats as you did into the weeds with each flavor.
>
> The auto-discovery route that each GW advertises consists of the
>    following:
>
>    o  An IPv4 or IPv6 NLRI containing one of the GW's loopback addresses
>       (that is, with an AFI/SAFI pair that is one of 1/1, 2/1, 1/4, or
>       2/4).
>
>
> Section 3 what seems to be missing in connecting the dots on how this
> solution would work is that you talk about the GWs import of the RTs whic=
h
> is fine but what is missing is the BGP interaction to backbone AS2 and al=
l
> the possible variations of the AS2 transport.  I think that will really
> help explain.
>
> It is hard to tell but are we doing ebgp multihop over GRE tunneling over
> AS2 and AS1 which is why we don=E2=80=99t talk about that the middle ASs =
routing
> details.
>
> Section 5 is the first mention of SR-TE in the draft and starts talking
> about the SR-MPLS label stack.  Both paragraphs are very confusing as mor=
e
> context or a detailed stick diagram would help.
>
> What may help is an end to end packet walk on the discovery mechanism.
>
> I think leaving out the AS2 AS1 BGP interaction makes it difficult to
> follow and connect the dots on the solution.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Gyan
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 1:35 PM Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This late-breaking revision just tweaks for the discussion with Boris.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
>> Sent: 04 June 2020 18:33
>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
>> Cc: bess@ietf.org
>> Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-07.txt
>>
>>
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>> directories.
>> This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.
>>
>>         Title           : Gateway Auto-Discovery and Route Advertisement
>> for
>> Segment Routing Enabled Domain Interconnection
>>         Authors         : Adrian Farrel
>>                           John Drake
>>                           Eric Rosen
>>                           Keyur Patel
>>                           Luay Jalil
>>         Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-07.txt
>>         Pages           : 12
>>         Date            : 2020-06-04
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    Data centers are critical components of the infrastructure used by
>>    network operators to provide services to their customers.  Data
>>    centers are attached to the Internet or a backbone network by gateway
>>    routers.  One data center typically has more than one gateway for
>>    commercial, load balancing, and resiliency reasons.
>>
>>    Segment Routing is a protocol mechanism that can be used within a
>>    data center, and also for steering traffic that flows between two
>>    data center sites.  In order that one data center site may load
>>    balance the traffic it sends to another data center site, it needs to
>>    know the complete set of gateway routers at the remote data center,
>>    the points of connection from those gateways to the backbone network,
>>    and the connectivity across the backbone network.
>>
>>    Segment Routing may also be operated in other domains, such as access
>>    networks.  Those domains also need to be connected across backbone
>>    networks through gateways.
>>
>>    This document defines a mechanism using the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation
>>    attribute to allow each gateway router to advertise the routes to the
>>    prefixes in the Segment Routing domains to which it provides access,
>>    and also to advertise on behalf of each other gateway to the same
>>    Segment Routing domain.
>>
>>
>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway/
>>
>> There are also htmlized versions available at:
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-07
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway=
-07
>>
>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-0=
7
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BESS mailing list
>> BESS@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BESS mailing list
>> BESS@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>
> --
>
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000d2718a05a9cd76f9
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Adrian</div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">Just checking if you had a chance to look at my comments on =
the draft.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind Regards=
=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, =
Jun 10, 2020 at 2:55 PM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail=
.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Adrian &amp; Authors=C2=A0</div></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I support the draft and the prob=
lems it is trying to address with SR-TR steering over multiple AS hops and =
the GW auto discovery features.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">I do have a few questions on the latest draft. I read through the=
 discussion with Boris and has some additional follow on questions.</div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">In the Intro section 1 describi=
ng the problem statement it is said that load balancing cannot occur as onl=
y one best path is chosen which is true.=C2=A0 However if you enabled eibgp=
 multipath =C2=A0maximum paths set that both paths as long as BGP path sele=
ction all attributes are equal traffic can be easily load balanced between =
AS2 and egress SR domain.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">It is not mentioned if AS2 is IP only or mpls IP VPN domain and i=
f a route reflector exist. I think that is important to mention as this gat=
eway auto discovery feature uses =C2=A0RT extended community set and so if =
the core is IP VPN used that does complicate the architecture as now SAF 1 =
now stacked with SAFI 128.=C2=A0 I have more questions on that topic discus=
sed further down.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0=
In that scenario as long as RD is auto on the PEs and eibgp multipath is en=
abled the RR will reflect multiple paths by unique RF and traffic can be lo=
ad balanced from AS2 to egress SR domain.=C2=A0 For load balancing you woul=
d not want to do =E2=80=9Cadd paths=E2=80=9D as you would still only have o=
ne valid/best path in BGP best path selection. Also as =E2=80=9Cadd paths=
=E2=80=9D is generally used BGP PIC edge to advertise and pre program backu=
p paths but is completely orthogonal to load balancing goal.</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">So now the real problem is not that l=
oad balancing won=E2=80=99t work in AS2 but rather that the GW1 GW2 next ho=
ps are not propagated to AS1.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto">What if you used the basic construct from inter-as option C RR to RR =
eBGP vpn peering and did the same from the SR egress domain GW1 GW2 ebgp mu=
ltihop with next hop unchanged to AS1 ASBRs transit peers over the AS2 and =
that would propagate GW1 GW2 next hops.=C2=A0 On the ebgp multi hop peers b=
etween SR egress domain and AS2 you could mesh the peering so each ASBR in =
AS2 peers with both GW1 and GW2 and you could enable ebgp multipath to load=
 balance over next hops to both gateways.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">I read through this draft that was referenced and it talk=
s about the concept of DC to DC or any external edge SR domain and traffic =
steering with SR-TE binding SID end to end steering.=C2=A0 In that drafts c=
ontext the backbone is =C2=A0MPLS or SR-MPLS or IP.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/html/draft-farrel-spring-sr-domain-interconnect-05" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-farrel-spring-sr-domain-inte=
rconnect-05</a></div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">For the gateway draft for clarity it would be good to specify if the AS2 =
backbone could actually be the following flavors IP, MPLS with global table=
 routing native BGP to the edge, MPLS IP VPN, SR-MPLS IP VPN, SRv6 IP VPN.=
=C2=A0 Maybe also mention from a topology level with or without Route Refle=
ctor in AS2.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Section 3 G=
W auto discovery questions</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"aut=
o">So each edge SR domain has an SR domain identifier which identifies all =
GWs in the domain and is unique to the domain and all prefixes exported hav=
e RT value for which is the SR domain identifier.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"auto">Please specify if RT type O, 1, 2 used or any or =
if it matters.=C2=A0 I think AS:NN =C2=A0type 0 or 4 would be appropriate t=
o account for 2 byte and 4 byte ASN - RT nomenclature to embed the domain i=
dentifier would make sense as the edges AS could be the X:Y X value and the=
 Y could be the unique domain identifier.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">I noticed SAFI 4 BGP-LU is in the list of SAFI.=C2=A0 Tha=
t is traditionally used for inter-as L3 VPN optC or CsC flavors.=C2=A0 In t=
he context of SR as this draft is geared towards if you are using SR-TE wit=
h binding sid policy across each AS hop NNI boundary stitching the steered =
path you would not need BGP-LU.=C2=A0 Also if the AS 2 core is MPLS only th=
en would you need BGP-LU and only if using option C.=C2=A0 There are caveat=
s with other inter-as options related to multicast MVPN that recommends sta=
cking BGP-LU as well for mLDP inband signaling.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">That =C2=A0is all the more reason to be crystal cle=
ar on the topology of the transit ASs in the mix here - AS 2 and AS 1 =C2=
=A0and if it=E2=80=99s every possible flavor then we should state that as w=
ell. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I think from=
 a operators standpoint it would make sense to have the draft account for a=
ll AS2 transport backbone flavors that are possible and account for how thi=
s solution would work for every flavor as their maybe lots of caveats as yo=
u did into the weeds with each flavor. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;fon=
t-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px =
0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-=
all;word-wrap:break-word;border:0px;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-r=
ight-radius:4px;border-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4p=
x;background-color:white">The auto-discovery route that each GW advertises =
consists of the
   following:

   o  An IPv4 or IPv6 NLRI containing one of the GW&#39;s loopback addresse=
s
      (that is, with an AFI/SAFI pair that is one of 1/1, 2/1, 1/4, or
      2/4).</pre></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Sectio=
n 3 what seems to be missing in connecting the dots on how this solution wo=
uld work is that you talk about the GWs import of the RTs which is fine but=
 what is missing is the BGP interaction to backbone AS2 and all the possibl=
e variations of the AS2 transport.=C2=A0 I think that will really help expl=
ain.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">It is hard to tell =
but are we doing ebgp multihop over GRE tunneling over AS2 and AS1 which is=
 why we don=E2=80=99t talk about that the middle ASs routing details.</div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Section 5 is the first mentio=
n of SR-TE in the draft and starts talking about the SR-MPLS label stack.=
=C2=A0 Both paragraphs are very confusing as more context or a detailed sti=
ck diagram would help.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">W=
hat may help is an end to end packet walk on the discovery mechanism.=C2=A0=
</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I think leaving out the=
 AS2 AS1 BGP interaction makes it difficult to follow and connect the dots =
on the solution.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind re=
gards=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><d=
iv><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On =
Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 1:35 PM Adrian Farrel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@oldd=
og.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(=
204,204,204)">Hi,<br>
<br>
This late-breaking revision just tweaks for the discussion with Boris.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">b=
ess-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On Behalf Of <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a><br>
Sent: 04 June 2020 18:33<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i-d-announce=
@ietf.org</a><br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a><br=
>
Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-07.txt<br>
<br>
<br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts<br>
directories.<br>
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 Gateway Auto-Discovery and Route Advertisement for<br>
Segment Routing Enabled Domain Interconnection<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Adri=
an Farrel<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 John Drake<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Eric Rosen<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Keyur Patel<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Luay Jalil<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet=
f-bess-datacenter-gateway-07.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 12<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2020-06-04<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Data centers are critical components of the infrastructure use=
d by<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0network operators to provide services to their customers.=C2=
=A0 Data<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0centers are attached to the Internet or a backbone network by =
gateway<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0routers.=C2=A0 One data center typically has more than one gat=
eway for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0commercial, load balancing, and resiliency reasons.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Segment Routing is a protocol mechanism that can be used withi=
n a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0data center, and also for steering traffic that flows between =
two<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0data center sites.=C2=A0 In order that one data center site ma=
y load<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0balance the traffic it sends to another data center site, it n=
eeds to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0know the complete set of gateway routers at the remote data ce=
nter,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the points of connection from those gateways to the backbone n=
etwork,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and the connectivity across the backbone network.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Segment Routing may also be operated in other domains, such as=
 access<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0networks.=C2=A0 Those domains also need to be connected across=
 backbone<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0networks through gateways.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines a mechanism using the BGP Tunnel Encapsu=
lation<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attribute to allow each gateway router to advertise the routes=
 to the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prefixes in the Segment Routing domains to which it provides a=
ccess,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and also to advertise on behalf of each other gateway to the s=
ame<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Segment Routing domain.<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gate=
way/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway/</a><br>
<br>
There are also htmlized versions available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-0=
7" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i=
etf-bess-datacenter-gateway-07</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-datacenter=
-gateway-07" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-07</a><br>
<br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bess-datacenter-g=
ateway-07" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdif=
f?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-07</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_si=
gnature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color=
:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,8=
5,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=
=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81"=
 height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"fon=
t-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-ser=
if;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rg=
b(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" styl=
e=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p st=
yle=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></font><=
/i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000d2718a05a9cd76f9--


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From nobody Mon Jul  6 20:06:46 2020
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From: Joel Jaeggli via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
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Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2020 20:06:44 -0700
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Subject: [bess] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-09
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Reviewer: Joel Jaeggli
Review result: Ready

greetings,

I have reviewed draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding on behalf of the
ops directorate.

as a datacenter operator something of a conflict appears for me in this work in
that  I struggle with the state explosion that IRBs each host / subnet
represent on the PE switches. As the document says:

   In other words, each PE participating in
   asymmetric IRB MUST maintain ARP entries for remote hosts (hosts
   connected to other PEs) as well as maintain MAC-VRFs/BTs and IRB
   interfaces for ALL subnets in an IP VRF including subnets that may
   not be locally attached.

We designed ourselves into  a corner where we need this document.

it would be helpful if section 4 would be more explicit for non-implementors on
when symetric or asymetric modules would be chosen, as it stands the variation
basically reads like the enumeration of the features of various implementations.

I think this document is ready to proceed and it clearly addresses needs in
these implementations.

joel



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From: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org>
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--_000_B05A1AE650A240E393AAF04BDC44E99Dnokiacom_--


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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Advertising IPv4 Network Layer Reachability Information with an IPv6 Next Hop
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Swadesh Agrawal
                          Krishna Muddenahally Ananthamurthy
                          Keyur Patel
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-04.txt
	Pages           : 13
	Date            : 2020-07-07

Abstract:
   Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP) specifies that the set of usable next-hop
   address families is determined by the Address Family Identifier (AFI)
   and the Subsequent Address Family Identifier (SAFI).  The current
   AFI/SAFI definitions for the IPv4 address family only have provisions
   for advertising a Next Hop address that belongs to the IPv4 protocol
   when advertising IPv4 Network Layer Reachability Information (NLRI)
   or VPN-IPv4 NLRI.  This document specifies the extensions necessary
   to allow advertising IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI with a Next Hop
   address that belongs to the IPv6 protocol.  This comprises an
   extension of the AFI/SAFI definitions to allow the address of the
   Next Hop for IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI to also belong to the IPv6
   protocol, the encoding of the Next Hop to determine which of the
   protocols the address actually belongs to, and a new BGP Capability
   allowing MP-BGP Peers to dynamically discover whether they can
   exchange IPv4 NLRI and VPN-IPv4 NLRI with an IPv6 Next Hop. This
   document obsoletes RFC5549.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" <mankamis=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] Presentation slot request for IETF 108
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/jt3SrDn4L3l5Yvn5JdsribFl8HI>
Subject: Re: [bess] Presentation slot request for IETF 108
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From: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 14:11:36 -0400
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To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Cc: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org>,  "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/YuvY2e6-ru_X79tCwxorCIAbIFo>
Subject: Re: [bess] Document shepherd review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-03
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Hi Matthew,

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 6:52 AM Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)
<matthew.bocci@nokia.com> wrote:

> Authors
>
> I am the document shepherd for this draft. I have reviewed the draft
> and have the following comments. In general, the draft is clear and
> well written =E2=80=93 thank you!. Please treat these comments as you wou=
ld
> any other working group last call comment.
>
> Best regards
> Matthew
>
>
> Section 2.3 EVPN Network OAM
>
> [=E2=80=A6]
>
>  - the MP2P tunnels used for the transport of unicast traffic between
>    PEs. EVPN allows for three different models of unicast label
>    assignment: label per EVI, label per <ESI, Ethernet Tag> and label
>    per MAC address. In all three models, the label is bound to an EVPN
>    Unicast FEC.
>
>  EVPN Network OAM MUST provide mechanisms to check the operation of
>  the data plane and verify that operation against the control plane
>  view.
>
> MB> The formatting here breaks the list up and makes it a bit hard
> to parse. Maybe you intend this paragraph to be attached to the list
> bullet above? If so then it would be clearer to merge the paragraphs
> or indent it to be aligned with the list bullet text.

I believe that paragraph should be attached to the list bullet above by
appending it to the bullet paragraph. (See, for example, the end of
the immediately following bullet paragraph.)

>
>
> EVPN network OAM mechanisms MUST provide in-band management
>    capabilities. As such, OAM messages MUST be encoded so that they
>    exhibit identical entropy characteristics to data traffic.
>
> MB> I think it would be clearer to refer to in-band monitoring
> rather than management to prevent confusion with the DCN of
> RFC5718. It is the monitoring that is in-band. I would also suggest
> adding a clarification with the second sentence in this paragraph
> along the lines of =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 in order that they share the same f=
ate.=E2=80=9D

OK. That would change this paragraph to read

   EVPN network OAM mechanisms MUST provide in-band monitoring
   capabilities. As such, OAM messages MUST be encoded so that they
   exhibit identical entropy characteristics to data traffic in order
   that they share the same fate.

One additional change: In line with the first change above, I believe
that the following paragraph should be merged with the preceding
bullet item:

   EVPN Network OAM MUST provide mechanisms to check the operation of
   the data plane and verify that operation against the control plane
   view for the DF filtering function.

Thanks,
Donald
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 33896 USA
 d3e3e3@gmail.com


From nobody Tue Jul  7 11:35:54 2020
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CC: Matthew Bocci <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, matthew.bocci@nokia.com, bess-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision@ietf.org, bess@ietf.org
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Subject: [bess] Last Call: <draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-04.txt> (Advertising IPv4 Network Layer Reachability Information with an IPv6 Next Hop) to Proposed Standard
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The IESG has received a request from the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG (bess) to
consider the following document: - 'Advertising IPv4 Network Layer
Reachability Information with an IPv6
   Next Hop'
  <draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-04.txt> as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final
comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2020-07-21. Exceptionally, comments may
be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning
of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP) specifies that the set of usable next-hop
   address families is determined by the Address Family Identifier (AFI)
   and the Subsequent Address Family Identifier (SAFI).  The current
   AFI/SAFI definitions for the IPv4 address family only have provisions
   for advertising a Next Hop address that belongs to the IPv4 protocol
   when advertising IPv4 Network Layer Reachability Information (NLRI)
   or VPN-IPv4 NLRI.  This document specifies the extensions necessary
   to allow advertising IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI with a Next Hop
   address that belongs to the IPv6 protocol.  This comprises an
   extension of the AFI/SAFI definitions to allow the address of the
   Next Hop for IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI to also belong to the IPv6
   protocol, the encoding of the Next Hop to determine which of the
   protocols the address actually belongs to, and a new BGP Capability
   allowing MP-BGP Peers to dynamically discover whether they can
   exchange IPv4 NLRI and VPN-IPv4 NLRI with an IPv6 Next Hop. This
   document obsoletes RFC5549.




The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision/



No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.






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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: Joel Jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>, "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>
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From: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
To: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
CC: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk@ietf.org>, "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>
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From nobody Wed Jul  8 17:54:47 2020
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : EVPN Operations, Administration and Maintenance Requirements and Framework
        Authors         : Samer Salam
                          Ali Sajassi
                          Sam Aldrin
                          John E. Drake
                          Donald E. Eastlake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-04.txt
	Pages           : 19
	Date            : 2020-07-08

Abstract:
   This document specifies the requirements and reference framework for
   Ethernet VPN (EVPN) Operations, Administration and Maintenance (OAM).
   The requirements cover the OAM aspects of EVPN and PBB-EVPN.  The
   framework defines the layered OAM model encompassing the EVPN service
   layer, network layer and underlying Packet Switched Network (PSN)
   transport layer.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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Matthew Bocci has requested publication of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-oam-req-frmwk-04 as None on behalf of the BESS working group.

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Subject: [bess] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-04
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Reviewer: Christer Holmberg
Review result: Almost Ready

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at

<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.

Document: draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-04
Reviewer: Christer Holmberg
Review Date: 2020-07-09
IETF LC End Date: 2020-07-21
IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat

Summary: The document is well written, and almost ready for publication. I only
have a couple of editorial nits.

Major issues: N/A

Minor issues: N/A

Nits/editorial comments:

Q1. In the Abstract, I suggest the split the text into 2 paragrahps, where the
"This document specifies..." sentence is the beginning of the second paragraph.

Q2. In the Introduction section, in the last paragraph, instead of saying "This
document specifies the extensions necessary to do so." I suggest to be explicit
about what the document specifies - similar to the Abstract.

Q3. The document uses "IPvX Network Layer Protocol" and "IPvX Protocol"
terminology. Similarly, the document uses "IPvX" and "IPvX Address"
terminology. Unless there is a good reason, I suggest do double check whether
the terminology can be more consistent.

Q4. In the IANA Considerations section, I suggest to use the IANA registry
table format, where the different values (Value, Description and Reference) are
indicated, e.g., as in Section 7 of RFC 8654. Also similar to 8654, please
indicate the IANA registry name.



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From: <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
To: "'Christer Holmberg'" <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>, <gen-art@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-04
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Hi Christer,

Thanks for your comments.
For your information, this document is just a revision of RFC5549, so =
99,9% of the text is just copy/paste from the existing RFC.
Of course, we can improve things.

I'll take care of your comments for a next revision.
For the IANA section, as IANA will not have any action, I would prefer =
keeping the existing text from RFC5549. We can also let other people =
comment on that point.

Stephane


-----Original Message-----
From: Christer Holmberg via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>=20
Sent: vendredi 10 juillet 2020 00:17
To: gen-art@ietf.org
Cc: draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision.all@ietf.org; last-call@ietf.org; =
bess@ietf.org
Subject: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-04

Reviewer: Christer Holmberg
Review result: Almost Ready

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area =
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the =
IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just like any =
other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at

<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.

Document: draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-04
Reviewer: Christer Holmberg
Review Date: 2020-07-09
IETF LC End Date: 2020-07-21
IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat

Summary: The document is well written, and almost ready for publication. =
I only have a couple of editorial nits.

Major issues: N/A

Minor issues: N/A

Nits/editorial comments:

Q1. In the Abstract, I suggest the split the text into 2 paragrahps, =
where the "This document specifies..." sentence is the beginning of the =
second paragraph.

Q2. In the Introduction section, in the last paragraph, instead of =
saying "This document specifies the extensions necessary to do so." I =
suggest to be explicit about what the document specifies - similar to =
the Abstract.

Q3. The document uses "IPvX Network Layer Protocol" and "IPvX Protocol"
terminology. Similarly, the document uses "IPvX" and "IPvX Address"
terminology. Unless there is a good reason, I suggest do double check =
whether the terminology can be more consistent.

Q4. In the IANA Considerations section, I suggest to use the IANA =
registry table format, where the different values (Value, Description =
and Reference) are indicated, e.g., as in Section 7 of RFC 8654. Also =
similar to 8654, please indicate the IANA registry name.




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Subject: Re: [bess] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On July 5, 2020 at 1:10:06 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:


Adrian:

Hi!


> > > DISCUSS:
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> (1) Controllers and other nodes.
...
> We can, however, make sure that only nodes that are authorised to be
> controllers are allowed to speak as controllers. An approach here would b=
e
> to configure each SFF with the identities of the controllers that it
> accepts. (This, for example, is what is usually done with NMSes. Note tha=
t
> in the PCE world, a PCC can be configured with the identities of he PCEs =
or
> it can discover them). I think we might add...
>
> "In an environment where there is concern that rogue Controllers might be
> introduced to the network and inject false SFPRs or take over and change
> existing SFPRs, it is RECOMMENDED that each SFF and Classifier be
> configured with the identities of authorised Controllers. Thus, the
> announcement of an SFPR by any other BGP peer would be rejected."
>
> Would that be good?

I don't think that the initial qualification ("in an environment...")
is needed; the action is RECOMMENDED, so the operator can decide
when/if they want to follow it. =C2=A0Otherwise it looks good to me.



> >>> (2) New Flow Specification Traffic Filtering Action
...
> > You>
> > I think that when you program an SFC classifier, that is a single
> > peer-to-peer communication targeted at an SFC Classifier.
> > A 5575-only node will not be a classifier.
> >
> > Me>
> > That is the type of operational considerations that I would like to see
> > the document include.
> >
> > That's all I'm looking for. By "isolating" the communication from
> > potential rfc5575bis-only nodes you eliminate my concern.
>
> OK, we can work something out.
>
> How about:
>
> Note that implementation of this section of this specification will be
> Controllers or Classifiers communicating with each other directly for the
> purpose of instructing the Classifier how to place packets onto an SFP. I=
n
> order that the implementation of Classifiers can be kept simple and to
> avoid the confusion between the purpose of different extended communities=
,
> a Controller MUST NOT include other action extended communities at the sa=
me
> time as a "Flow Specification for SFC Classifiers" extended community: th=
e
> inclusion of the "Flow Specification for SFC Classifiers" action extended
> community along with any other action MUST be treated by an implementatio=
n
> of this specification as an error which SHOULD result in the Flow
> Specification UPDATE message being handled as Treat-as-withdraw according=
 to
> Section 2.

s/action extended communities/Traffic Filtering Action Extended Communities


I'm not too keen on the use of treat-as-withdraw, specially because
the sender doesn't know that something happened. =C2=A0Knowing that the
communication is direct between the controller/classifier, I would
like to propose thinking of multiple communities as interfering with
the new one (see =C2=A77.7/rfc5575bis). =C2=A0This would result in this doc=
ument
specifying something like this:

OLD>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0...: the inclusion of the "Flow Specification for SFC Classifi=
ers" action
=C2=A0 =C2=A0extended community along with any other action MUST be treated=
 by an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation of this specification as an error which SHOULD =
result in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Flow Specification UPDATE message being handled as Treat-as-wi=
thdraw
=C2=A0 =C2=A0according to Section 2.

NEW>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.... =C2=A0The "Flow Specification for SFC Classifiers" extend=
ed community
=C2=A0 =C2=A0interferes with all other Traffic Filtering Actions. =C2=A0Onl=
y the SFC
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Classifiers action MUST be considered and all others ignored.



If you *really* want to treat-as-withdraw, then here's my suggested
text to be in line with rfc5575bis:

NEW>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0...: a "Flow Specification for SFC Classifiers" Traffic Filter=
ing Action
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Extended Community advertised with any other Traffic Filtering=
 Action
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Extended Community MUST be treated as malformed.



Thanks!

Alvaro.


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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Alvaro Retana'" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "'The IESG'" <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: <bess-chairs@ietf.org>, <draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane@ietf.org>,  <bess@ietf.org>, <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
References: <157672423820.4788.15963554106411963869.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00a301d63787$89a36db0$9cea4910$@olddog.co.uk> <CAMMESswL8erpQfAs5rqv=y+pGWkWpjsUuWNOq5VzYVabd7JMJA@mail.gmail.com> <067101d652ef$208c8630$61a59290$@olddog.co.uk> <CAMMESsyNjmR2AdSq2NtJGQ-=ZDoc2XeGAGEVwPpTDyWvOyBR6g@mail.gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 20:56:41 +0100
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Subject: Re: [bess] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Thanks Alvaro!

>> "In an environment where there is concern that rogue Controllers =
might be
>> introduced to the network and inject false SFPRs or take over and =
change
>> existing SFPRs, it is RECOMMENDED that each SFF and Classifier be
>> configured with the identities of authorised Controllers. Thus, the
>> announcement of an SFPR by any other BGP peer would be rejected."
>>
>> Would that be good?
>
> I don't think that the initial qualification ("in an environment...")
> is needed; the action is RECOMMENDED, so the operator can decide
> when/if they want to follow it.  Otherwise it looks good to me.

OK

"Where there is concern..."

>> How about:
>>
>> Note that implementation of this section of this specification will =
be
>> Controllers or Classifiers communicating with each other directly for =
the
>> purpose of instructing the Classifier how to place packets onto an =
SFP. In
>> order that the implementation of Classifiers can be kept simple and =
to
>> avoid the confusion between the purpose of different extended =
communities,
>> a Controller MUST NOT include other action extended communities at =
the same
>> time as a "Flow Specification for SFC Classifiers" extended =
community: the
>> inclusion of the "Flow Specification for SFC Classifiers" action =
extended
>> community along with any other action MUST be treated by an =
implementation
>> of this specification as an error which SHOULD result in the Flow
>> Specification UPDATE message being handled as Treat-as-withdraw =
according to
>> Section 2.
>
> s/action extended communities/Traffic Filtering Action Extended =
Communities

Ack

> I'm not too keen on the use of treat-as-withdraw, specially because
> the sender doesn't know that something happened.  Knowing that the
> communication is direct between the controller/classifier, I would
> like to propose thinking of multiple communities as interfering with
> the new one (see =C2=A77.7/rfc5575bis).  This would result in this =
document
> specifying something like this:
>
> OLD>
>   ...: the inclusion of the "Flow Specification for SFC Classifiers" =
action
>   extended community along with any other action MUST be treated by an
>   implementation of this specification as an error which SHOULD result =
in the
>   Flow Specification UPDATE message being handled as Treat-as-withdraw
>   according to Section 2.
>
> NEW>
>   ....  The "Flow Specification for SFC Classifiers" extended =
community
>   interferes with all other Traffic Filtering Actions.  Only the SFC
>   Classifiers action MUST be considered and all others ignored.
>
> If you *really* want to treat-as-withdraw, then here's my suggested
> text to be in line with rfc5575bis:
>
> NEW>
>   ...: a "Flow Specification for SFC Classifiers" Traffic Filtering =
Action
>   Extended Community advertised with any other Traffic Filtering =
Action
>   Extended Community MUST be treated as malformed.

Thanks. I can accept either of your suggestions. I'm going to do some =
archaeology to remind myself where the treat-as-withdraw came from. I =
have some memory that it was IDR that pushed us to have this (and other) =
error actions, but I may well be misremembering. Depending on what I =
discover, I will pick one or the other of the suggestions and re-post.

Cheers,
Adrian


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Subject: Re: [bess] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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rfc5575bis, when it came out of the WG had a section about error handling
including treat-as-withdraw.  As we processed and cleaned the document up
we ended up not defining specific effort handling for FS, but relying on
the behavior for Extended communities already specified somewhere else.

Just some digging help. :-)

Alvaro.

On July 10, 2020 at 3:56:44 PM, Adrian Farrel (adrian@olddog.co.uk) wrote:


Thanks. I can accept either of your suggestions. I'm going to do some
archaeology to remind myself where the treat-as-withdraw came from. I have
some memory that it was IDR that pushed us to have this (and other) error
actions, but I may well be misremembering. Depending on what I discover, I
will pick one or the other of the suggestions and re-post.

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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">rfc5575bis, when it came out of the WG had a sec=
tion about error handling including treat-as-withdraw.=C2=A0 As we processe=
d and cleaned the document up we ended up not defining specific effort hand=
ling for FS, but relying on the behavior for Extended communities already s=
pecified somewhere else.</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;fon=
t-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:=
13px">Just some digging help. :-)</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,=
Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;f=
ont-size:13px">Alvaro.</div> <br><p class=3D"airmail_on">On July 10, 2020 a=
t 3:56:44 PM, Adrian Farrel (<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@=
olddog.co.uk</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq"><=
span><div><div></div><div><br>Thanks. I can accept either of your suggestio=
ns. I&#39;m going to do some archaeology to remind myself where the treat-a=
s-withdraw came from. I have some memory that it was IDR that pushed us to =
have this (and other) error actions, but I may well be misremembering. Depe=
nding on what I discover, I will pick one or the other of the suggestions a=
nd re-post.
<br></div></div></span></blockquote><div class=3D"gmail_signature"></div></=
body></html>

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Subject: Re: [bess] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Thanks!

=20

That may explain why we have what we have.

=20

A

=20

From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>=20
Sent: 10 July 2020 21:06
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: bess-chairs@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on =
draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

=20

rfc5575bis, when it came out of the WG had a section about error =
handling including treat-as-withdraw.  As we processed and cleaned the =
document up we ended up not defining specific effort handling for FS, =
but relying on the behavior for Extended communities already specified =
somewhere else.

=20

Just some digging help. :-)

=20

Alvaro.

=20

On July 10, 2020 at 3:56:44 PM, Adrian Farrel (adrian@olddog.co.uk =
<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> ) wrote:


Thanks. I can accept either of your suggestions. I'm going to do some =
archaeology to remind myself where the treat-as-withdraw came from. I =
have some memory that it was IDR that pushed us to have this (and other) =
error actions, but I may well be misremembering. Depending on what I =
discover, I will pick one or the other of the suggestions and re-post.=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>That may =
explain why we have what we have.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>A<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Alvaro Retana =
&lt;aretana.ietf@gmail.com&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 10 July 2020 =
21:06<br><b>To:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk; The IESG =
&lt;iesg@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> bess-chairs@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane@ietf.org; =
sfc-chairs@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on =
draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane-13: (with DISCUSS and =
COMMENT)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>rfc5575bis,=
 when it came out of the WG had a section about error handling including =
treat-as-withdraw.&nbsp; As we processed and cleaned the document up we =
ended up not defining specific effort handling for FS, but relying on =
the behavior for Extended communities already specified somewhere =
else.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Just some =
digging help. :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Alvaro.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3Dairmailon><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>On July =
10, 2020 at 3:56:44 PM, Adrian Farrel (<a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>) =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>Thanks.=
 I can accept either of your suggestions. I'm going to do some =
archaeology to remind myself where the treat-as-withdraw came from. I =
have some memory that it was IDR that pushed us to have this (and other) =
error actions, but I may well be misremembering. Depending on what I =
discover, I will pick one or the other of the suggestions and re-post. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div></body></html>
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From nobody Fri Jul 10 15:13:45 2020
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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Weighted Multi-Path Procedures for EVPN All-Active Multi-Homing
        Authors         : Neeraj Malhotra
                          Ali Sajassi
                          Jorge Rabadan
                          John Drake
                          Avinash Lingala
                          Samir Thoria
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-05.txt
	Pages           : 18
	Date            : 2020-07-10

Abstract:
   In an EVPN-IRB based network overlay, EVPN all-active multi-homing
   enables multi-homing for a CE device connected to two or more PEs via
   a LAG, such that bridged and routed traffic from remote PEs can be
   equally load balanced (ECMPed) across the multi-homing PEs.  This
   document defines extensions to EVPN procedures to optimally handle
   unequal access bandwidth distribution across a set of multi-homing
   PEs in order to:

   o  provide greater flexibility, with respect to adding or removing
      individual PE-CE links within the access LAG.

   o  handle PE-CE LAG member link failures that can result in unequal
      PE-CE access bandwidth across a set of multi-homing PEs.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-05
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



From nobody Fri Jul 10 19:47:39 2020
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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-mvpn-seamless-interop-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Seamless Multicast Interoperability between EVPN and MVPN PEs
        Authors         : Ali Sajassi
                          Kesavan Thiruvenkatasamy
                          Samir Thoria
                          Ashutosh Gupta
                          Luay Jalil
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-mvpn-seamless-interop-01.txt
	Pages           : 39
	Date            : 2020-07-10

Abstract:
   Ethernet Virtual Private Network (EVPN) solution is becoming
   pervasive for Network Virtualization Overlay (NVO) services in data
   center (DC) networks and as the next generation VPN services in
   service provider (SP) networks.

   As service providers transform their networks in their COs toward
   next generation data center with Software Defined Networking (SDN)
   based fabric and Network Function Virtualization (NFV), they want to
   be able to maintain their offered services including Multicast VPN
   (MVPN) service between their existing network and their new Service
   Provider Data Center (SPDC) network seamlessly without the use of
   gateway devices.  They want to have such seamless interoperability
   between their new SPDCs and their existing networks for a) reducing
   cost, b) having optimum forwarding, and c) reducing provisioning.
   This document describes a unified solution based on RFCs 6513 & 6514
   for seamless interoperability of Multicast VPN between EVPN and MVPN
   PEs.  Furthermore, it describes how the proposed solution can be used
   as a routed multicast solution in data centers with only EVPN PEs.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-mvpn-seamless-interop/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-mvpn-seamless-interop-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-mvpn-seamless-interop-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-evpn-mvpn-seamless-interop-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : SRv6 BGP based Overlay services
        Authors         : Gaurav Dawra
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Bruno Decraene
                          Shunwan Zhuang
                          Jorge Rabadan
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-03.txt
	Pages           : 28
	Date            : 2020-07-11

Abstract:
   This draft defines procedures and messages for SRv6-based BGP
   services including L3VPN, EVPN and Internet services.  It builds on
   RFC4364 "BGP/MPLS IP Virtual Private Networks (VPNs)" and RFC7432
   "BGP MPLS-Based Ethernet VPN".


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-03
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A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
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To: BESS <bess@ietf.org>
References: <00a501d6513d$e7f052f0$b7d0f8d0$@gmail.com> <00ba01d6513e$6d50c380$47f24a80$@gmail.com>
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com, mpls@ietf.org, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>, Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [bess] [mpls] FW: WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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Stephane and Matthew,

Thanks for sending this to the mpls wg, LSP Ping is one of of out key
protocols and assignments of LSP Ping code points should be reviewed by
the mpls working group.

bess wg, (mpls wg for info),

There are a few comments on the IANA section and the use of the code 
points you request that IANA shall allocate.

First, the scope of the sub-TLVs allocated from the "Sub-TLVs for TLV 
Types 1, 16, and 21" sub-registry. Code points from this registry are
valid for three TLVs (1, 16 and 21), it is the impression that the draft
try to allocate four sub-TLVs for TLV 1 only. If the sub-TLV is not
valid for TLVs 16 and 21 that needs to be carefully specified in the
document. If this is the case it would imply a not insignificant
implementation complexity.

Second, the registry from which the allocation will be done needs to
clearly pointed out.

The IANA section talks about:

   "Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Paths (LSPs)
    Parameters - TLVs" registry.

There is no such registry. I often use the following terminology to
get the registry names right, Name Space, Registry, sub-registry.


In your case the namespace would be "Multiprotocol Label Switching
(MPLS) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) Parameters"

The registry would be "TLVs"

And the sub-registry "Sub-TLVs for TLV Types 1, 16, and 21"


One way of clearly pointing out drom which sub-registry you wantt the
sub-TLVs to be appointed would be:
   "IANA is requested to assign value for the four sub-TLVs listed below
    from the Standards Track" (0-16383) range, in the "Sub-TLVs for TLV
    Types 1, 16, and 21" sub-registry, in the "TLVs" registry in the
    "Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Paths (LSPs)
    Ping Parameters" name space."

You should also say that you want the lowest 4 free values.

Note 1: I had some communication with the editor that indicates that
this is the correct range.

Note 2: There is a draft that will soon be wglc'ed in the MPLS working
group, "draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registries-update". As far as I can
see none of the changes to the LSP Ping registers done in the mpls
draft has any effect on the allocation made by this draft.

I have consulted our registry experts (Carlos and Mach) to look at the
IANA registry in draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping. The point that they
brought back was that the scope of the requested sub-TLVs (TLV 1 only or
TLV 1, 16 and 21) must be made very clear.

For the allocation "Return Codes" that is cledarer. Say "The Return
Codes" registry in the "Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label
Switched Paths (LSPs) Ping Parameters" name space."  And that the two 
lowest standard actions code points should be allocated.

I would use bullets to list the return codes, using numbers might be
taken as that this is the values you want.

There are some language that should be considered, e.g. from section
8.2:

    This document proposes two new Return Codes, which SHOULD be included
    in the Echo Reply message by a PE in response to LSP Ping Echo
    Request message:

This are rather general statement, and it is true only EVPN and PBB
context, right? Please make specific.

The same would be true for this from section 8.1.:

    This document defines 4 new sub-TLV type to be included in Target FEC
    Stack TLV (TLV Type 1) [RFC8029] in LSP Ping.

It is only included in EVPN and PBB context, and I would substitute
"LSP Ping" with "echo request and echo reply messages"


/Loa


On 03/07/2020 21:32, slitkows.ietf@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi MPLS WG,
> 
> We have started a working group last call on 
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping which we may be interested to have you 
> review and comments on. Please comment on the BESS mailing list as well 
> as MPLS mailing list.
> 
> Brgds,
> 
> Stephane
> 
> *From:*slitkows.ietf@gmail.com <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* vendredi 3 juillet 2020 15:29
> *To:* bess@ietf.org; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org
> *Cc:* bess-chairs@ietf.org
> *Subject:* WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for 
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
> 
> Hello WG,
> 
> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on 
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping-02 [1].
> 
> This poll runs until * the 20^th Of July *.
> 
> We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to 
> this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with 
> IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
> 
> If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please 
> respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any 
> relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers 
> from all the Authors and Contributors.
> 
> There is currently no IPR disclosed.
> 
> If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please 
> explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet 
> been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
> 
> We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Stephane & Matthew
> 
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping/
> 
> [2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 

-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Controller Based BGP Multicast Signaling
        Authors         : Zhaohui Zhang
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Dante Pacella
                          Arkadiy Gulko
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller-03.txt
	Pages           : 19
	Date            : 2020-07-12

Abstract:
   This document specifies a way that one or more centralized
   controllers can use BGP to set up a multicast distribution tree in a
   network.  In the case of labeled tree, the labels are assigned by the
   controllers either from the controllers' local label spaces, or from
   a common Segment Routing Global Block (SRGB), or from each routers
   Segment Routing Local Block (SRLB) that the controllers learn.  In
   case of labeled unidirectional tree and label allocation from the
   common SRGB or from the controllers' local spaces, a single common
   label can be used for all routers on the tree to send and receive
   traffic with.  Since the controllers calculate the trees, they can
   use sophisticated algorithms and constraints to achieve traffic
   engineering.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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From: <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
To: <bess@ietf.org>, <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org>
Cc: <bess-chairs@ietf.org>, "'idr@ietf. org'" <idr@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:45:53 +0200
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Subject: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01
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Hello WG,

 

This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01 [1].

 

This poll runs until * the 27th Of July *.

 

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to
this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please
respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from
all the Authors and Contributors. 

There is currently no IPR disclosed.

 

If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly
respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in
conformance with IETF rules.

 

We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2]. 

 

Thank you,

Stephane & Matthew

 

[1]  <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/

[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw

 


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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hello WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>This email starts a two weeks =
Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01 =
[1].<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>This poll runs until * the 27<sup>th</sup> Of July =
*.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>We are also polling for knowledge of any =
undisclosed IPR that applies to this Document, to ensure that IPR has =
been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, =
3669 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of =
this Document please respond to this email and indicate whether or not =
you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't =
progress without answers from all the Authors and =
Contributors.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>There is currently no IPR =
disclosed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>If you are not listed as an Author or a =
Contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any =
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF =
rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>We are also polling for any existing implementation =
as per [2]. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>Stephane &amp; Matthew<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>[1] </span><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/"><s=
pan =
lang=3DEN-US>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve=
/</span></a><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>[2] <a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdk=
jqDpw" =
target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vP=
C4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org>
CC: "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>, "'idr@ietf. org'" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/2hWYRDu8-pg8hC31YKXegcU4n3Y>
Subject: Re: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01
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Support and not aware of any IPR

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 7:46 AM
To: bess@ietf.org; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org
Cc: bess-chairs@ietf.org; 'idr@ietf. org' <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-=
01

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

Hello WG,

This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-ev=
pn-geneve-01 [1].

This poll runs until * the 27th Of July *.


We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please res=
pond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevan=
t undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from all the=
 Authors and Contributors.

There is currently no IPR disclosed.



If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.



We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].



Thank you,

Stephane & Matthew

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/<https://u=
rldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-gen=
eve/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WfNm6OusMlGdSwZFMQiIyEJizHIzhmV9anctI2wvqjrCAo6ZyEiNMA=
rWBeVbdtI$>
[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw<=
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1=
tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WfNm6OusMlGdSwZFMQiIyEJizHIzhmV9anct=
I2wvqjrCAo6ZyEiNMArW5Q30t5Y$>


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Support and not aware of any IPR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;margin=
-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> slitkows.ietf@gmail.com &lt;slitkows.ie=
tf@gmail.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 13, 2020 7:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> bess-chairs@ietf.org; 'idr@ietf. org' &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-=
geneve-01<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello WG,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Cal=
l on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01 [1].<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This poll runs until * the 27<sup>th</sup> Of July *=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies =
to this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with =
IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879,
 3669 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document pleas=
e respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any re=
levant undisclosed IPR. The Document
 won't progress without answers from all the Authors and Contributors.&nbsp=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">There is currently no IPR disclosed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please expli=
citly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclo=
sed in conformance with IETF rules.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">Stephane &amp; Matthew<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[1] <span lang=3D"FR"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.=
com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/__;!!N=
Et6yMaO-gk!WfNm6OusMlGdSwZFMQiIyEJizHIzhmV9anctI2wvqjrCAo6ZyEiNMArWBeVbdtI$=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evp=
n-geneve/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[2] <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/ma=
ilarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw__;!!NEt6yMaO-g=
k!WfNm6OusMlGdSwZFMQiIyEJizHIzhmV9anctI2wvqjrCAo6ZyEiNMArW5Q30t5Y$" target=
=3D"_blank">
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_DM5PR05MB338804C6ABC9509318EC3948C7600DM5PR05MB3388namp_--


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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org>
CC: "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:56:17 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/LCUK_eRXKho2SOmS6XreEZ3O0t8>
Subject: Re: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:43:08 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com, BESS <bess@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01
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Yes/support

Cheers,
Jeff
On Jul 13, 2020, 7:46 AM -0700, slitkows.ietf@gmail.com, wrote:
>
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
>
> Hello WG,
>
> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01 [1].
>
> This poll runs until * the 27th Of July *..
>
>
> We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from all the Authors and Contributors.
>
> There is currently no IPR disclosed.
>
>
>
> If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>
>
> We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Stephane & Matthew
>
>
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/
> [2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess

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<div dir=3D=22auto=22>Yes/support&=23160;</div>
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<div class=3D=22match=46ont=22>Cheers,
<div>Jeff</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D=22messageReplySection=22>On Jul 13, 2020, 7:46 AM -0700, sli=
tkows.ietf=40gmail.com, wrote:<br />
<blockquote type=3D=22cite=22 style=3D=22border-left-color: grey; border-=
left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; margin: 5px 5px;padding-left:=
 10px;=22><br />
<div><b><span style=3D=22font-size: 14px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family=
: Lato , sans-serif;=22>=5BExternal Email. Be cautious of content=5D</spa=
n></span></b><span style=3D=22font-family: Lato , sans-serif;=22><span st=
yle=3D=22font-size: 14px;=22></span></span><br />
<br />
Hello WG,<br />
<br />
This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-=
evpn-geneve-01 =5B1=5D.<br />
<br />
This poll runs until * the 27th Of July *..<br />
<br />
<br />
We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to =
this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with I=
ET=46 IPR rules (see R=46Cs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<=
br />
<br />
If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please r=
espond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any rel=
evant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from a=
ll the Authors and Contributors.<br />
<br />
There is currently no IPR disclosed.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicit=
ly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclos=
ed in conformance with IET=46 rules.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
We are also polling for any existing implementation as per =5B2=5D.<br />=

<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you,<br />
<br />
Stephane &amp; Matthew<br />
<br />
<br />
=5B1=5D <a href=3D'https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttps:/datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/=5F=5F;=21=21NEt6yMaO-gk=21WfNm6Ous=
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=5B2=5D <a href=3D'https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttps:/mailarchive.iet=
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<br />
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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BESS mailing list<br />
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: "Najem, Basil" <basil.najem@bell.ca>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org" <draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: RE BGP Usage for SDWAN Overlay Networks Adoption
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/LP1cgxQY5gUvCVLDhbIEBcKIZiI>
Subject: Re: [bess] RE BGP Usage for SDWAN Overlay Networks Adoption
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Basil,

Thank you very much for the comments.
Here are the proposed resolution to your suggestion:

Linda Dunbar

From: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca>
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2020 5:15 PM
To: bess@ietf.org
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org; bess-chairs@=
ietf.org
Subject: RE BGP Usage for SDWAN Overlay Networks Adoption

Good Day;

As one of the authors of the this document "BGP Usage for SDWAN Overlay Net=
works draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-06 " (see the link https://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/<https://nam11.safelinks=
.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fd=
raft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurew=
ei.com%7C1db8524de50e49b6c7fd08d81ed552a5%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fed=
c%7C1%7C1%7C637293248859576217&sdata=3Dps3r8tjKf%2Bd0Vv5GxCSpRdqvfU5qzPpq0C=
8vIDyDyCY%3D&reserved=3D0>), I support the adoption of the document ONLY if=
 the following comments are taken into the consideration:



  1.  Section 1, Page 3: There more characteristics of the SDWAN Service th=
at needs to be captured. For example, the Application Routing based on spec=
ific performance criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter) is used=
 to  provide better application performance by choosing the right underlay =
that meets or exceeds the specified criteria; SD-WAN is doing this efficien=
tly. This must be added for clarity and to avoid any misleading to the read=
er
[Linda]  The following bullet is added to the characteristics of the SDWAN:

  *   The Application Routing can also be based on specific performance cri=
teria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter) to provide better applicati=
on performance by choosing the right underlay that meets or exceeds the spe=
cified criteria.



  1.  Section 2, Page 5:  What's the definition of the "SDWAN edge node"? A=
lso, the SDWAN End-point has different definition at MEF 70.x; is the SDWAN=
 End-point (in this document) the same as  the one in MEF 70.x? We need to =
be clear about using the right terminology and its usage.

[Linda] Remoted the terminology of "SDWAN End-point". SDWAN Edge has the fo=
llowing definition:
SDWAN Edge Node:  an edge node, which can be physical or virtual, maps the =
attached clients' traffic to the wide area network (WAN) overlay tunnels.



  1.  Section 3.1.1, Page 6: it would be good to include the reference to a=
nd the picture of the format of the proposed BGP Extended Community value (=
i.e. SD-WAN Target ID) and its value
[Linda] The BGP encoding is specified in IDR WG. We can add a reference her=
e.


  1.  Section 3.3, Page 11: For clarity add (after the end of the paragraph=
) the following sentence "If all the traffic is encrypted on all WAN ports =
(i.e. the C-PE WAN ports that are connected to the Internet and Private VPN=
 network), then this will be similar to Scenario#1"

[Linda] all the traffic encrypted on all WAN ports is already covered by th=
e Scenario #1. This scenario is to emphasize that client data/flows can go =
through VPN without encryption and Internet with encryption.


  1.  Section 4.1, Page 17 (Fig. 6): There is NO colors in the figure; ther=
e should be RED and BLUE colors in the figure to match the paragraph
[Linda] Thank you for catching this.


  1.  Section 4.2, Page 18 (Fig. 7): There is NO Purple nor RED colors in t=
he figure. There should be colors in the figure
[Linda] fixed.


  1.  Section 5.2, Page 22: This paragraph is not clear! the SD-WAN doesn't=
 interact with the underlay PE nor it does exchange keys/policies with the =
PE.

[Linda] which paragraph you are referring to?   The Section 5.2 is assuming=
 all SDWAN edge nodes are PEs.  I added a phrase to the following statement=
:
[SECURE-L3VPN] describes how to extend the RFC4364 VPN to allow some PEs be=
ing connected to other PEs via public networks. In this scenario, the PEs i=
s the SDWAN Edge nodes.

This is not the intent of the SD-WAN (as an overlay service). What's the pu=
rpose of this section?
[Linda] this scenario is to refer to addition IPsec tunnels added to  MPLS =
PEs


  1.  Section 6, Page 26: The SDWAN Edge node that is directly connected to=
 the Client Network (CN) learns the routes from the client (at this specifi=
c location) and then re-distribute this to the RR. This is needs to be clar=
ified here

[Linda] Made the following change
SDWAN overlay networks utilize the SDWAN controller to facilitate route dis=
tribution, central configurations, and others. SDWAN Edge nodes need to adv=
ertise the attached routes to their controller (i.e. RR in BGP case).


Best Regards;

Basil Najem






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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Basil, <o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Thank you very much=
 for the comments.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Here are the propos=
ed resolution to your suggestion:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Linda Dunbar<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> Najem, Basil &lt;basil.najem@bell.ca&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 2, 2020 5:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org; bess-=
chairs@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE BGP Usage for SDWAN Overlay Networks Adoption<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US">Good Day;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">As one of the authors =
of the this document &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">BGP
 Usage for SDWAN Overlay Networks draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-06 &#82=
20; (see the link
</span><span lang=3D"FR"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outl=
ook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-bess=
-bgp-sdwan-usage%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C1db=
8524de50e49b6c7fd08d81ed552a5%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C=
637293248859576217&amp;sdata=3Dps3r8tjKf%2Bd0Vv5GxCSpRdqvfU5qzPpq0C8vIDyDyC=
Y%3D&amp;reserved=3D0"><span lang=3D"EN-CA">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-CA">=
),
 I support the adoption of the document <u>ONLY if </u>the following commen=
ts are taken into the consideration:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-U=
S">Section 1, Page 3:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11.=
0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Seg=
oe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There more c=
haracteristics of the SDWAN Service that needs to be captured. For example,=
 the Application Routing based on specific performance
 criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter) is used to &nbsp;provid=
e better application performance by choosing the right underlay that meets =
or exceeds the specified criteria; SD-WAN is doing this efficiently. This m=
ust be added for clarity and to avoid
 any misleading to the reader</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Linda] =
&nbsp;The following bullet is added to the characteristics of the SDWAN:<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#0070C0;mso-margin-top-alt:au=
to;margin-left:.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">The Application Rout=
ing can also be based on specific performance criteria (e.g. packets delay,=
 packet loos, jitter) to provide better application performance by choosing=
 the right underlay that meets or exceeds the
 specified criteria. <o:p></o:p></span></i></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-U=
S">Section 2, Page 5:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.=
5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"=
>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Seg=
oe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">&nbsp;What's=
 the definition of the &#8220;SDWAN edge node&#8221;? Also, the SDWAN End-p=
oint has different definition at MEF 70.x; is the SDWAN End-point
 (in this document) the same as &nbsp;the one in MEF 70.x? We need to be cl=
ear about using the right terminology and its usage.</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Linda] =
Remoted the terminology of &#8220;SDWAN End-point&#8221;. SDWAN Edge has th=
e following definition:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left:1.5in;t=
ext-indent:-1.2in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#0070C0;mso-far=
east-language:EN-US">SDWAN Edge Node:&nbsp; an edge node, which can be phys=
ical or virtual, maps the attached clients&#8217; traffic to the wide area =
network (WAN) overlay tunnels.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-U=
S">Section 3.</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">1.1,=
 Page 6:
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">it would=
 be good to include the reference to and the picture of the format of the p=
roposed BGP Extended Community value (i.e. SD-WAN
 Target ID) and its value</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.=
5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"=
><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Linda] =
The BGP encoding is specified in IDR WG. We can add a reference here.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"4" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe U=
I&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Section 3.3, Page 11:
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">For clar=
ity add (after the end of the paragraph) the following sentence &quot;If al=
l the traffic is encrypted on all WAN ports (i.e. the
 C-PE WAN ports that are connected to the Internet and Private VPN network)=
, then this will be similar to Scenario#1&quot;</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Linda] =
all the traffic encrypted on all WAN ports is already covered by the Scenar=
io #1. This scenario is to emphasize that
 client data/flows can go through VPN without encryption and Internet with =
encryption.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"5" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe U=
I&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Section 4.1, Page 17 (Fig. 6=
):
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There is=
 NO colors in the figure; there should be RED and BLUE colors in the figure=
 to match the paragraph
</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Seg=
oe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li><=
/ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Linda] =
Thank you for catching this.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"6" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe U=
I&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Section 4.2, Page 18 (Fig. 7=
):
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There is=
 NO Purple nor RED colors in the figure. There should be colors in the figu=
re</span><b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/b></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Linda] =
fixed.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><b><span lang=3D"EN-CA=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></b></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"7" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe U=
I&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Section 5.2, Page 22:
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">This par=
agraph is not clear! the SD-WAN doesn't interact with the underlay PE nor i=
t does exchange keys/policies with the PE.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Seg=
oe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li><=
/ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Linda] =
which paragraph you are referring to? &nbsp;&nbsp;The Section 5.2 is assumi=
ng all SDWAN edge nodes are PEs. &nbsp;I added a phrase
 to the following statement: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><i><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-lang=
uage:EN-US">[SECURE-L3VPN] describes how to extend the RFC4364 VPN to allow=
 some PEs being connected to other PEs via
 public networks. In this scenario, the PEs is the SDWAN Edge nodes.<o:p></=
o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">This is not the intent o=
f the SD-WAN (as an overlay service). What's the purpose
 of this section?</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Linda] =
this scenario is to refer to addition IPsec tunnels added to &nbsp;MPLS PEs
</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:=
EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"8" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe U=
I&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Section 6, Page 26:
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The SDWA=
N Edge node that is directly connected to the Client Network (CN) learns th=
e routes from the client (at this specific location)
 and then re-distribute this to the RR. This is needs to be clarified here<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Sego=
e UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></=
ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Linda] =
Made the following change
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><i><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-lang=
uage:EN-US">SDWAN overlay networks utilize the SDWAN controller to facilita=
te route distribution, central configurations,
 and others. SDWAN Edge nodes need to advertise the attached routes to thei=
r controller (i.e. RR in BGP case).<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><i><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-lang=
uage:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0070C0;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US">Best Regards;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US">Basil Najem<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"E=
N-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif=
;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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From: "David Carrel (carrel)" <carrel@cisco.com>
To: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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Subject: Re: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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--_000_179B10B67CD94FB4A7CA9CE88978FBBFciscocom_--


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Optimized Ingress Replication solution for EVPN
        Authors         : J. Rabadan
                          S. Sathappan
                          W. Lin
                          M. Katiyar
                          A. Sajassi
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-optimized-ir-07.txt
	Pages           : 26
	Date            : 2020-07-13

Abstract:
   Network Virtualization Overlay (NVO) networks using EVPN as control
   plane may use Ingress Replication (IR) or PIM (Protocol Independent
   Multicast) based trees to convey the overlay BUM traffic.  PIM
   provides an efficient solution to avoid sending multiple copies of
   the same packet over the same physical link, however it may not
   always be deployed in the NVO core network.  IR avoids the dependency
   on PIM in the NVO network core.  While IR provides a simple multicast
   transport, some NVO networks with demanding multicast applications
   require a more efficient solution without PIM in the core.  This
   document describes a solution to optimize the efficiency of IR in NVO
   networks.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-optimized-ir/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-optimized-ir-07
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-optimized-ir-07

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-evpn-optimized-ir-07


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-08.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP Usage for SDWAN Overlay Networks
        Authors         : Linda Dunbar
                          James Guichard
                          Ali Sajassi
                          John Drake
                          Basil Najem
                          David Carrel
	Filename        : draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-08.txt
	Pages           : 28
	Date            : 2020-07-13

Abstract:
   The document describes three distinct SDWAN scenarios and discusses
   the applicability of BGP for each of those scenarios. The goal of
   the document is to demonstrate how BGP-based control plane is used
   for large scale SDWAN overlay networks with little manual
   intervention.

   SDWAN edge nodes are commonly interconnected by multiple underlay
   networks which can be owned and managed by different network
   providers.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-08
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-08


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



From nobody Mon Jul 13 21:26:54 2020
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 00:26:22 -0400
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All

Please review the following draft I had presented on the interim IETF 107.
In this version I updated the abstract and introduction.

This draft defines and important use case used today for encoding IPV4 1/1
or VPN IPv4
1/128 MVPN 1/129 NLRI in an IPV6 Next hop defined in RFC 5549 draft update
 and RFC 5565 4to6 softwire mesh framework.

In the previous older version of next hop encoding schema  to carry IPV4
NLRI over IPV6 the encoding was IPv4 mapped IPv6 address which has been
updated with next hop encoding to be an IPV6 address 16/32  bits for IP  or
24/48 bits IP VPN with RD set to 0.

So the idea with this draft is to use the same concept of next hop encoding
used today to stack SAFI  on the PE-RR peer on a 6to4 softwire mesh v4 over
v6 core with v6 next hop encoding, to now be applied to edge PE-CE peering
for brown or green field 4to6 softwire mesh core.  So now with this concept
in use cases of v4  to be carried over a v6 core we can now use the IPv6
peering as a pure transport at the PE-CE =E2=80=9Cedge=E2=80=9D to carry bo=
th IPv4 1/1 and
IPv6 2/1 NLRI over a single IPv6 next hop peer.

This allows all enterprise and Service Providers to eliminate all IPv4
PE-CE edge peering from their core.

This also helps pave the way as a stepping stone for IPv4 elimination and
IPv6 only customers.

This concept has tremendous OPEX savings for operators as IPv4 peers no
longer need to be supported to customers.

Along with saving on IPv4 /31 P2P peer PE-CE addressing and allocation.

This concept does not require IPv4 and IPv6 congruency, and the policy for
v4 and v6 can be different, however it is recommended that the BGP  policy
be same other then address family context related policy.

I am planning to add a vendor support section that today support the next
hop encoding and vendors that do not and a status on support.  As this
concept of mixed address families of one AFI being carried by another has
been around for a long time.  The caveat here from a vendor support
standpoint  is this is the PE-CE peer and not the core control plane PE-RR
peer which is the focus of RFC 5549 which has been around for a long time.

I have done some basic testing on this concept with various vendor
platforms and it seems the next hop encoding is what seems to be missing,
that it does not seem to be set correctly and may need coding update to get
it to work.

I am also planning to add a deployment recommendation section related to
IPv4 and IPv6 congruency.

Please provide feedback and any comments on the concept and or technical
issues or gaps that I am not aware of with this concept.

My goal of course is to garner interest in this draft concepts and
hopefully  consensus and fInally WG adoption.

Kind Regards

Gyan


---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mishra, Gyan S <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>
Date: Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 5:46 AM
Subject: Fwd: [E] New Version Notification for
draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-01.txt
To: gsm hayabusa <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>




---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 5:37 AM
Subject: [E] New Version Notification for
draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-01.txt
To: Gyan S. Mishra <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Gyan Mishra and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases
Revision:       01
Title:          IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop Use Cases
Document date:  2020-07-12
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          15
URL:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_interne=
t-2Ddrafts_draft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6nh-2Duse-2Dcases-2D01.txt=
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XxUvs&s=3DxbA9oZ1wgaGJE5psj8VVjJLkfBgX5NO92sUrtlXV0xw&e=3D
Status:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.ietf.org=
_doc_draft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6nh-2Duse-2Dcases_&d=3DDwICaQ&c=
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H1xsY5Z-SutF2OFjRZp4iiCFtrv-oOsIq_gHkyOQ&e=3D
Htmlized:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_=
draft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6nh-2Duse-2Dcases-2D01&d=3DDwICaQ&c=
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h_XsRKkUBQqLrvTXA4c8fqMXDFMemLNM0Qk4bxb8&e=3D
Htmlized:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.ietf.org=
_doc_html_draft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6nh-2Duse-2Dcases&d=3DDwICa=
Q&c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&r=3DDnUkF34wu4mqq0UY8nn2r=
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Diff:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdiff=
-3Furl2-3Ddraft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6nh-2Duse-2Dcases-2D01&d=3D=
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&s=3Didg9tUorRUzWlzJK-H-NIFGFM_43akEYJj6jkF2hcww&e=3D

Abstract:
   As Enterprises and Service Providers upgrade their brown field or
   green field MPLS/SR core to an IPv6 transport such as MPLS LDPv6, SR-
   MPLSv6 or SRv6, Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP)now plays an important role
   in the transition of the core from IPv4 to IPv6 being able to
   continue to support legacy IPv4, VPN-IPv4, and Multicast VPN IPv4
   customers.

   Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP) specifies that the set of usable next-hop
   address families is determined by the Address Family Identifier (AFI)
   and the Subsequent Address Family Identifier (SAFI).  Historically
   the AFI/SAFI definitions for the IPv4 address family only have
   provisions for advertising a Next Hop address that belongs to the
   IPv4 protocol when advertising IPv4 or VPN-IPv4 Network Layer
   Reachability Information (NLRI).  [RFC5549] specifies the extensions
   necessary to allow advertising IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI with a Next
   Hop address that belongs to the IPv6 protocol.  This comprises an
   extension of the AFI/SAFI definitions to allow the address of the
   Next Hop for IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI to also belong to the IPv6
   Protocol.  [RFC5549] defines the encoding of the Next Hop to
   determine which of the protocols the address actually belongs to, and
   a new BGP Capability allowing MP-BGP Peers to dynamically discover
   whether they can exchange IPv4 NLRI and VPN-IPv4 NLRI with an IPv6
   Next Hop.

   With this new MP-BGP capability exchange allows the BGP peering
   session to act as a pure transport to allow the session to carry
   Address Family Identifier (AFI) and the Subsequent Address Family
   Identifier (SAFI) for both IPv4 and IPv6.

   This document describes the critical use case and OPEX savings of
   being able to leverage the MP-BGP capability exchange usage as a pure
   transport allowing both IPv4 and IPv6 to be carried over the same BGP
   TCP session.  By doing so, allows for the elimination of Dual
   Stacking on the PE-CE connections making the peering IPv6-ONLY to now
   carry both IPv4 and IPv6 Network Layer Reachability Information
   (NLRI).  This document also provides a possible solution for IXPs
   (Internet Exchange points) that are facing IPv4 address depletion at
   these peering points to use BGP-MP capability exchange defined in
   [RFC5549] to carry IPv4 (Network Layer Reachability Information) NLRI
   in an IPv6 next hop using the [RFC5565] softwire mesh framework.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect & SME*


*Data Center Planning | Common Core | Development & Engineering Lab
ServicesGlobal Technology Services | ITNUC*




*O 240 970-6287M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike Rm 304-D
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+Rm+304-D+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD+20904?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>*Silver
Spring, MD 20904
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+Rm+304-D+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD+20904?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>


*IETF  & ISOC Member since 2015*

https://www.ietf.org/

https://www.internetsociety.org/


--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--0000000000002d197305aa5f372f
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><div dir=3D"auto">All</div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Please review the following draft I had presented on the interim =
IETF 107.=C2=A0 In this version I updated the abstract and introduction.</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This draft defines and imp=
ortant use case used today for encoding IPV4 1/1 or VPN IPv4=C2=A0</div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">1/128 MVPN 1/129 NLRI in an IPV6 Next hop defined in RFC 554=
9 draft update =C2=A0and RFC 5565 4to6 softwire mesh framework.</div><div d=
ir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">In the previous older version of ne=
xt hop encoding schema =C2=A0to carry IPV4 NLRI over IPV6 the encoding was =
IPv4 mapped IPv6 address which has been updated with next hop encoding to b=
e an IPV6 address 16/32 =C2=A0bits for IP =C2=A0or 24/48 bits IP VPN with R=
D set to 0.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">So the idea =
with this draft is to use the same concept of next hop encoding used today =
to stack SAFI =C2=A0on the PE-RR peer on a 6to4 softwire mesh v4 over v6 co=
re with v6 next hop encoding, to now be applied to edge PE-CE peering for b=
rown or green field 4to6 softwire mesh core.=C2=A0 So now with this concept=
 in use cases of v4 =C2=A0to be carried over a v6 core we can now use the I=
Pv6 peering as a pure transport at the PE-CE =E2=80=9Cedge=E2=80=9D to carr=
y both IPv4 1/1 and IPv6 2/1 NLRI over a single IPv6 next hop peer.</div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This allows all enterprise and =
Service Providers to eliminate all IPv4 PE-CE edge peering from their core.=
</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This also helps pave th=
e way as a stepping stone for IPv4 elimination and IPv6 only customers.</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This concept has tremendous=
 OPEX savings for operators as IPv4 peers no longer need to be supported to=
 customers. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Along=
 with saving on IPv4 /31 P2P peer PE-CE addressing and allocation.</div><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This concept does not require IP=
v4 and IPv6 congruency, and the policy for v4 and v6 can be different, howe=
ver it is recommended that the BGP =C2=A0policy be same other then address =
family context related policy.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">I am planning to add a vendor support section that today suppo=
rt the next hop encoding and vendors that do not and a status on support.=
=C2=A0 As this concept of mixed address families of one AFI being carried b=
y another has been around for a long time.=C2=A0 The caveat here from a ven=
dor support standpoint =C2=A0is this is the PE-CE peer and not the core con=
trol plane PE-RR peer which is the focus of RFC 5549 which has been around =
for a long time. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
I have done some basic testing on this concept with various vendor platform=
s and it seems the next hop encoding is what seems to be missing, that it d=
oes not seem to be set correctly and may need coding update to get it to wo=
rk. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I am also pla=
nning to add a deployment recommendation section related to IPv4 and IPv6 c=
ongruency.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Please provid=
e feedback and any comments on the concept and or technical issues or gaps =
that I am not aware of with this concept.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">My goal of course is to garner interest in this draft con=
cepts and hopefully =C2=A0consensus and fInally WG adoption.</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind Regards=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">-----=
----- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong class=3D"gmail_sendernam=
e" dir=3D"auto">Mishra, Gyan S</strong> <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com">gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com</a>&gt;</span><b=
r>Date: Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 5:46 AM<br>Subject: Fwd: [E] New Version Notif=
ication for draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-01.txt<br>To: gsm h=
ayabusa &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message -------=
--<br>From: <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Sun,=
 Jul 12, 2020 at 5:37 AM<br>Subject: [E] New Version Notification for draft=
-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-01.txt<br>To: Gyan S. Mishra &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com" target=3D"_blank">gyan.s.mishra@v=
erizon.com</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-01.txt<br=
>
has been successfully submitted by Gyan Mishra and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ip=
v6nh-use-cases<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A001<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop Use C=
ases<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-07-12<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 15<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://urldefense=
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Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6nh-2Duse-2Dcases-2D01.txt&amp;d=3DDwICaQ&am=
p;c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&amp;r=3DDnUkF34wu4mqq0UY8=
nn2rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&amp;m=3DuLnT9-IwiocDgWwuxK_vXy03fLWyBgsUVRV28RXx=
Uvs&amp;s=3DxbA9oZ1wgaGJE5psj8VVjJLkfBgX5NO92sUrtlXV0xw&amp;e=3D" rel=3D"no=
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tps-3A__www.ietf.org_internet-2Ddrafts_draft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Di=
pv6nh-2Duse-2Dcases-2D01.txt&amp;d=3DDwICaQ&amp;c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPp=
s3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&amp;r=3DDnUkF34wu4mqq0UY8nn2rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&am=
p;m=3DuLnT9-IwiocDgWwuxK_vXy03fLWyBgsUVRV28RXxUvs&amp;s=3DxbA9oZ1wgaGJE5psj=
8VVjJLkfBgX5NO92sUrtlXV0xw&amp;e=3D</a> <br>
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qg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&amp;r=3DDnUkF34wu4mqq0UY8nn2rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNV=
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F34wu4mqq0UY8nn2rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&amp;m=3DuLnT9-IwiocDgWwuxK_vXy03fLW=
yBgsUVRV28RXxUvs&amp;s=3DA4KH1xsY5Z-SutF2OFjRZp4iiCFtrv-oOsIq_gHkyOQ&amp;e=
=3D</a> <br>
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k">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_ht=
ml_draft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6nh-2Duse-2Dcases-2D01&amp;d=3DDwI=
CaQ&amp;c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&amp;r=3DDnUkF34wu4m=
qq0UY8nn2rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&amp;m=3DuLnT9-IwiocDgWwuxK_vXy03fLWyBgsUVR=
V28RXxUvs&amp;s=3DD6yh_XsRKkUBQqLrvTXA4c8fqMXDFMemLNM0Qk4bxb8&amp;e=3D</a> =
<br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoin=
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ML28ZU&amp;m=3DuLnT9-IwiocDgWwuxK_vXy03fLWyBgsUVRV28RXxUvs&amp;s=3DUTzpTmrs=
9OKqxKQDpqALujDGqsQaFftJBFYELHozqHI&amp;e=3D" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"=
_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.=
ietf.org_doc_html_draft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6nh-2Duse-2Dcases&a=
mp;d=3DDwICaQ&amp;c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&amp;r=3DD=
nUkF34wu4mqq0UY8nn2rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&amp;m=3DuLnT9-IwiocDgWwuxK_vXy03=
fLWyBgsUVRV28RXxUvs&amp;s=3DUTzpTmrs9OKqxKQDpqALujDGqsQaFftJBFYELHozqHI&amp=
;e=3D</a> <br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://urldefense=
.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdiff-3Furl2-3Ddraft-2D=
mishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6nh-2Duse-2Dcases-2D01&amp;d=3DDwICaQ&amp;c=
=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&amp;r=3DDnUkF34wu4mqq0UY8nn2=
rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&amp;m=3DuLnT9-IwiocDgWwuxK_vXy03fLWyBgsUVRV28RXxUvs=
&amp;s=3Didg9tUorRUzWlzJK-H-NIFGFM_43akEYJj6jkF2hcww&amp;e=3D" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps=
-3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdiff-3Furl2-3Ddraft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6n=
h-2Duse-2Dcases-2D01&amp;d=3DDwICaQ&amp;c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRx=
pb6__0PomBTQ&amp;r=3DDnUkF34wu4mqq0UY8nn2rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&amp;m=3DuL=
nT9-IwiocDgWwuxK_vXy03fLWyBgsUVRV28RXxUvs&amp;s=3Didg9tUorRUzWlzJK-H-NIFGFM=
_43akEYJj6jkF2hcww&amp;e=3D</a> <br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0As Enterprises and Service Providers upgrade their brown field=
 or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0green field MPLS/SR core to an IPv6 transport such as MPLS LDP=
v6, SR-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MPLSv6 or SRv6, Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP)now plays an importa=
nt role<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the transition of the core from IPv4 to IPv6 being able to<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0continue to support legacy IPv4, VPN-IPv4, and Multicast VPN I=
Pv4<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0customers.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP) specifies that the set of usable ne=
xt-hop<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0address families is determined by the Address Family Identifie=
r (AFI)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and the Subsequent Address Family Identifier (SAFI).=C2=A0 His=
torically<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the AFI/SAFI definitions for the IPv4 address family only have=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0provisions for advertising a Next Hop address that belongs to =
the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv4 protocol when advertising IPv4 or VPN-IPv4 Network Layer<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Reachability Information (NLRI).=C2=A0 [RFC5549] specifies the=
 extensions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0necessary to allow advertising IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI with=
 a Next<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Hop address that belongs to the IPv6 protocol.=C2=A0 This comp=
rises an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0extension of the AFI/SAFI definitions to allow the address of =
the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Next Hop for IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI to also belong to the =
IPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Protocol.=C2=A0 [RFC5549] defines the encoding of the Next Hop=
 to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0determine which of the protocols the address actually belongs =
to, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a new BGP Capability allowing MP-BGP Peers to dynamically disc=
over<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0whether they can exchange IPv4 NLRI and VPN-IPv4 NLRI with an =
IPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Next Hop.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0With this new MP-BGP capability exchange allows the BGP peerin=
g<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0session to act as a pure transport to allow the session to car=
ry<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Address Family Identifier (AFI) and the Subsequent Address Fam=
ily<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Identifier (SAFI) for both IPv4 and IPv6.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes the critical use case and OPEX savings=
 of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0being able to leverage the MP-BGP capability exchange usage as=
 a pure<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0transport allowing both IPv4 and IPv6 to be carried over the s=
ame BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0TCP session.=C2=A0 By doing so, allows for the elimination of =
Dual<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Stacking on the PE-CE connections making the peering IPv6-ONLY=
 to now<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0carry both IPv4 and IPv6 Network Layer Reachability Informatio=
n<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(NLRI).=C2=A0 This document also provides a possible solution =
for IXPs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Internet Exchange points) that are facing IPv4 address deplet=
ion at<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0these peering points to use BGP-MP capability exchange defined=
 in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5549] to carry IPv4 (Network Layer Reachability Informatio=
n) NLRI<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in an IPv6 next hop using the [RFC5565] softwire mesh framewor=
k.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><p><a href=3D"h=
ttp://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block;co=
lor:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/ima=
ge/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"heigh=
t: 18px; width: 81px;"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;fon=
t-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color=
:black"><b style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif=
">Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D=
"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:1em;font-family:georgia,serif;color:bla=
ck"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></font><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,=
0,0)"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">rchitect &amp; SME</i></font><=
/p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,=
0,0)">Data Center Planning | Common Core | Development &amp; Engineering La=
b Services<br>Global Technology Services | ITNUC</font></i></p><p style=3D"=
font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"geo=
rgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">O 240 970=
-6287<br>M 301 502-1347<br><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13=
101+Columbia+Pike+Rm+304-D+Silver+Spring,+MD+20904?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=
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Pike+Rm+304-D+Silver+Spring,+MD+20904?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">Silver =
Spring, MD 20904</a></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13=
px;color:black"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13=
px;color:black"><i style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=3D"georgia, ser=
if" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,255)">IETF=C2=A0 &amp;=
 ISOC Member since 2015</font></i></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;=
line-height:13px"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/" target=3D"_blank"><font=
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://www.ietf.org/</font></a></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-he=
ight:13px"><a href=3D"https://www.internetsociety.org/" target=3D"_blank"><=
font style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">https://www.internetsociety.org/</font></=
a><br></p><p><i style=3D"font-size:13px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"geo=
rgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></fon=
t></i></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
></div>
</div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmai=
l=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
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tyle=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" =
width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></a><br></p><p =
style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Ar=
ial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=
=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia,=
 serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></fon=
t><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></fo=
nt></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><=
i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0=
<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div>

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Subject: Re: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-03.txt
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From nobody Mon Jul 13 22:49:56 2020
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From: Murray Kucherawy via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
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Subject: [bess] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-09: (with COMMENT)
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Murray Kucherawy has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-09: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bigger stuff:

I'll see Benjamin's DISCUSS (meaning I support it) and raise him the two
seemingly normative references to [TUNNEL-ENCAP], which is also undefined.

As someone not from the Routing Area, I found this a little hard to read
because it becomes quite dense with acronyms in some places.

Is Section 13 intended to remain in the final published version?  Is it needed?

In the Abstract, please expand all acronyms on first use in the abstract, per
the I-D Guidelines.

Lesser stuff:

Thanks for the glossary in Section 1.  I note that, although defined in the
glossary here, the terms "DGW", "Ethernet A-D route", "GRE", "GW IP", "IPL",
"ML", and "VXLAN" are not used anywhere else in this document.

There are lots of places where a single hyphen is used to break up a sentence,
such as to introduce an example.  These should be em dashes, or commas, or
maybe semicolons, but not simply hyphens.

A few nits:

Section 2:

* "... all the inter-subnet forwarding are performed ..." -- s/are/is/

* "... connected to the same PE, wanted to communicate ..." -- remove the comma

Section 3:

* "A MAC-VRF can consists of one ..." -- either drop "can", or use "consist"




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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
To: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org>
CC: "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>, "'idr@ietf. org'" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01
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Subject: Re: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01
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Support to progress the document.
I=92m not aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR.

Thank you!
Jorge

From: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, July 13, 2020 at 1:46 PM
To: bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org <dr=
aft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org>
Cc: bess-chairs@ietf.org <bess-chairs@ietf.org>, 'idr@ietf. org' <idr@ietf.=
org>
Subject: WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-=
01
Hello WG,

This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-ev=
pn-geneve-01 [1].

This poll runs until * the 27th Of July *.


We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please res=
pond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevan=
t undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from all the=
 Authors and Contributors.

There is currently no IPR disclosed.



If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.



We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].



Thank you,

Stephane & Matthew

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/
[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Support to progress the document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">I=92m not aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Thank you!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Jorge<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com &lt;slitkows.iet=
f@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, July 13, 2020 at 1:46 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>bess@ietf.org &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;, draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve=
@ietf.org &lt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>bess-chairs@ietf.org &lt;bess-chairs@ietf.org&gt;, 'idr@ietf. or=
g' &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-=
geneve-01<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Hello WG,<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">This email starts a two=
 weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01 [1].<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">This poll runs until * =
the 27<sup>th</sup> Of July *.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please res=
pond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevan=
t undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from all the=
 Authors and Contributors.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
There is currently no IPR disclosed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:108.0pt">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:108.0pt">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2]. <o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
Stephane &amp; Matthew<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">[1] <a href=3D"https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/</a><o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">[2] <a href=3D"https://=
mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw" target=3D"_=
blank">
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 01:04:01 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+C0YO3T7ccHpKLq60dhrLPJWctFFcaD69we5F5r-yi4arMQYQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com, bess@ietf.org,  "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org>,  "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01
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Support the progress and not aware of any IPR related to this doc.

Sam

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 1:01 AM Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) <
jorge.rabadan@nokia.com> wrote:

> Support to progress the document.
>
> I=E2=80=99m not aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR.
>
>
>
> Thank you!
>
> Jorge
>
>
>
> *From: *slitkows.ietf@gmail.com <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, July 13, 2020 at 1:46 PM
> *To: *bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org
> <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org>
> *Cc: *bess-chairs@ietf.org <bess-chairs@ietf.org>, 'idr@ietf. org' <
> idr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01
>
> Hello WG,
>
>
>
> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01 [1].
>
>
>
> This poll runs until * the 27th Of July *.
>
>
>
> We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to
> this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with
> IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please
> respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
> relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers fro=
m
> all the Authors and Contributors.
>
> There is currently no IPR disclosed.
>
>
>
> If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please
> explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been
> disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>
>
> We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Stephane & Matthew
>
>
>
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/
>
> [2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDp=
w
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Support the progress and not aware of any IPR related to =
this doc.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Sam</div></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul=
 14, 2020, 1:01 AM Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-7985334306784462196WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Support to progress the document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">I=E2=80=99m not aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR.<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Thank you!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Jorge<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margi=
n-left:36.0pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer=
">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, July 13, 2020 at 1:46 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk" rel=3D"noreferrer">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-=
bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">draft-ietf-=
bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ge=
neve@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ge=
neve@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href=3D"mailto:bess-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D=
"noreferrer">bess-chairs@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess-chairs@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">bess-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &=
#39;idr@ietf. org&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noreferrer">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-=
geneve-01<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Hello WG,<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">This email starts a two=
 weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01 [1].<u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">This poll runs until * =
the 27<sup>th</sup> Of July *.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_-7985334306784462196gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-648717=
7298439282362msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7985334306784462196gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-648717=
7298439282362msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please res=
pond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevan=
t undisclosed IPR. The Document won&#39;t progress without answers from all=
 the Authors and Contributors.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7985334306784462196gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-648717=
7298439282362msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
There is currently no IPR disclosed.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7985334306784462196gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-648717=
7298439282362msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:108.0pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7985334306784462196gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-648717=
7298439282362msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7985334306784462196gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-648717=
7298439282362msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:108.0pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7985334306784462196gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-648717=
7298439282362msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2]. <u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7985334306784462196gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-648717=
7298439282362msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7985334306784462196gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-648717=
7298439282362msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
Thank you,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7985334306784462196gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-648717=
7298439282362msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
Stephane &amp; Matthew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">[1] <a href=3D"https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/" target=3D"_blank" re=
l=3D"noreferrer">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/</a><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">[2] <a href=3D"https://=
mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw" target=3D"_=
blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--000000000000c57ec405aa624076--


From nobody Tue Jul 14 05:32:51 2020
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Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-09: No Objection

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https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for the work put into this document.

Please find below a couple of non-blocking COMMENTs (and I would appreciate a
reply to each of my COMMENTs).

I hope that this helps to improve the document,

Regards,

-éric

PS: as a side note, I found that this document uses too many acronyms even for
short words (e.g., "SN" instead of "Subnet"). There are also very long
sentences that, when combined with acronyms, make reading difficult.

== COMMENTS ==

-- Section 2 --
About "to bridge non-IP and intra-subnet traffic and to route inter-subnet IP
traffic": suggest to clarify the text when the IP-VRF is IPv6 only, then, (I
assume) that IPv4 packets will be bridged and not IP-forwarded (and vice-versa).

-- Section 4.1 --
Suggest to replace "then the IRB interface MAC address MUST be the one used in
the initial ARP reply or ND Neighbor Advertisement (NA) for that TS." by "then
the IRB interface MAC address MUST be the one used in the initial ARP reply or
ND Neighbor Advertisement (NA) or Router Advertisement (RA) for that TS"
because routers MAC addresses are also advertised by Router Advertisements.

-- Section 5.1 --
Should also mention NDP when writing "(via an ARP request)" in the first
paragraph.

In the same vein, please add "NDP cache" to "Furthermore, it adds this TS's MAC
and IP address association to its ARP table".

As I am not an expert in EVPN, I am puzzled by the math about the Length field
"either 40 (if IPv4 address is carried) or 52 (if IPv6 address is carried)."

-- Section 5.2 --
This section also only mentions IPv4 ARP table, please add IPv6 NDP cache.

-- Section 6.1 --
Same comments as for section 5.1

-- Section 6.2 --
Same comments as for section 5.2

-- Section 7 --
Good to state "Although the language used in this section is for IPv4 ARP, it
equally applies to IPv6 ND."; even if I would have preferred to use by default
IPv6 ND ;-)

Please note that in IPv6 there are often at least TWO IPv6 addresses per MAC
(one link-local fe80::... and one global); so, "In the following subsections,
it is assumed that the MAC and IP addresses of a TS have one-to-one
relationship (i.e., there is one IP address per MAC address and vice versa). "
is obviously never the case for IPv6. I understand that the rest of the
paragraph explains how to handle the case but it could be easier to treat IPv6
in a separate sentence.

-- Section 7.1 --
While about mobility, this section appears to be also applicable to Duplicate
Address Detection but is unclear on what to do when the same IP but different
MAC (i.e., an actual IP address collision). Or is it covered in other documents?

== NITS ==

-- Section 1 --
"BD and subnet are equivalent terms" while in the rest of the document "IP
subnet" is often used. If "subnet IP" and "subnet" are synonyms, then I suggest
to keep using one for consistency or at least mention that "IP subnet" and
"subnet" are the same concept (or explain the difference if they are not
identical).




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From nobody Tue Jul 14 10:51:31 2020
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From: Alvaro Retana via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
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Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-09: Discuss

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm balloting DISCUSS because the specification in §9.1.1 is not clear, and it
is not in sync with draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps.  [Some of the points below
are not DISCUSS-worthy, but I'm including them here because they are related to
the larger point.]

§9.1.1 talks about using the Encapsulation Extended Community *and* the
Router's MAC Extended Community.  However, the requirement for these
communities to appear together is not explicit anywhere.  What are the
implications for only one of them being present?

The Router's MAC Extended Community "is only required when Ethernet NVO tunnel
type is used".  It seems to me that normatively requiring the extended
community is important in this case.

What exactly is the "Ethernet NVO tunnel type"?  §1 (Terminology) says that
"Examples of this type of tunnels are VXLAN or GENEVE."  A standards track
document should be specific about when something is required.  For example, I
assume that it would also be required when using NVGRE.  The tunnel types are a
finite number, so please be specific.

Where is the GENEVE tunnel type (to be used in the Encapsulation Extended
Community) defined?  BTW, the [GENEVE] reference is also missing.

§4 has this text: "the tunnel connecting these IP-VRFs can be either IP-only
tunnel (in case of MPLS or GENEVE encapsulation) or Ethernet NVO tunnel (in
case of VxLAN encapsulation)."  It confuses me because of the apparent
contradiction between GENEVE being an example of an Ethernet NVO tunnel type,
but also (?) an IP-only tunnel in this case.

§4.2/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps mentions possible conflicts created by the
Router's MAC Extended Community and how it may be ignored, but this document
doesn't mention using the Encapsulation Sub-TLVs (also from
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps) for the same function.  Can the same function be
achieved with the Encapsulation Sub-TLVs?

"section 4.5 of [TUNNEL-ENCAP]" is mentioned a couple of times, but there is no
§4.5 in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, and there's no reference either.  Please
remove the specific section number (to avoid becoming out of sync), and instead
mention the Encapsulation Extended Community by name.  Add a Normative
reference to draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

(1) What is the "Tunnel Type Extended Community"?  I'm assuming you mean the
Encapsulation Extended Community.

(2) s/MUST treat the route as withdraw/MUST use the treat-as-withdraw approach

(3) I find the use of normative language (MUSTs) in the description of the
requirements (§2) unnecessary.

(4) Nits:

s/In case of/In the case of/g

s/forwarding are performed/forwarding is performed

s/back hauled/backhauled/g

s/drawback of centralized/drawback of the centralized

s/relationship among these components/relationship between these components/g

s/can consists/can consist

s/a IP/an IP/g

s/a L3/an L3

s/used in description of/used to describe

s/in prior section/in the prior section

s/Since the packet forwarding is between ingress PE's...and egress PE's
...procedures follows/Because the packet forwarding is between the ingress
PE's...and the egress PE's...procedures follow

s/provides different level/provides a different level

s/identifying bridge/identifying the bridge

s/in data plane/in the data plane

s/route route/route

s/with BGP Encapsulation/with the BGP Encapsulation

s/only L2 forwarding (bridging) part/only the L2 forwarding (bridging) part

s/a RT/an RT/g

s/RT-*/EVPN RT-*/g

s/Lets consider/Let's consider/g

s/using EVPN IP Prefix/using the EVPN IP Prefix

s/[EVPN-PREFIX]/[I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-prefix-advertisement]/g

s/Figure below illustrates this scenario/Figure 7 illustrates the scenario

s/as follow/as follows

s/as underlay tunnel/as the underlay tunnel

s/in access-facing/in an access-facing

s/using EVPN IP/using the EVPN IP

s/where, IP lookup/where an IP lookup

s/feedbacks/feedback

s/is this document/in this document

s/for application/for the application

s/MUST not/MUST NOT

"receiving NVE ration MPLS encapsulation"  ??

s/Label-1/Label1/g (for consistency with rfc7432)

s/Label-2/Label2/g




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Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-09: Discuss

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

(1) Possibly a "discuss discuss", but ...
if I'm understanding correctly, the symmetric IRB case over an Ethernet
NVO tunnel (not MPLS or IP NVO) described in this document is
introducing a new scenario where traffic using router (PE) MAC addresses
as source and destination is comingled on the same tunnel with traffic
using tenant system MAC addresses as source and destination.  This
places an obligation on the tunnel endpoints to properly isolate and
process such "internal" tunnel traffic without hampering the ability of
tenans systems to communicate.  In a world where tenant systems can
appear at any time, using previously unknown MAC addresses, this
represents a rather challenging problem: how will the PEs be able to
pick (and avertise) MAC addresses that they know will not conflict with
any present or future customer systems?  (A similar dilemma led to quite
a delay in the processing of draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan, which in that case
was resolved by limiting the BFD operation to just the "management VNI"
which is not subject to MAC address conflict with customer systems.)  In
this docuement's case, we seem to be using a "well-known"/reserved MAC
address range from RFC 5798; in principle, this should be enough to
avoid conflicts, if customer systems are known to not squat on this
reserved range.  However, this document has some text in Section 4.1
that indicates that there must be external knowledge that auto-derived
MAC addresses in the RFC 5798 ranges "[do] not collide with any customer
MAC address".  So I'm left uncertain whether or not this potential
problem is addressed or not.  (Also, I don't know if the limit on 255
distinct such MAC addresses presents a scaling issue.)

Also, is there any risk that the EVPN IRB setup might also want to use
VRRPv3, and thus collide on the MAC addresses in a different manner?

(1.1) I'm less sure whether there's a similar collision risk for IP
addresses -- we assign IP addresses to NVEs (e.g., for use as BGP Next
Hop addresses) and these are used as VTEP addresses when encapsulating
packets that are going inter-subnet.  I think that at this point in the
packet processing we may already know that we're in the the "IRB tunnel"
scope and that may be enough to de-conflict any potential IP address
collision between NVE and customer addresses.

(2) Section 7 appears to reference (in a normative fashion)
[IRB-EXT-MOBILITY] but there is no such reference.
Similarly (as Murray notes), there are a couple apparent references to
[TUNNEL-ENCAP] that are also arguably normative, but the target of the
reference is not forthcoming (and the IANA registry does not show a "BGP
Encapsulation Extended Community" that is supposedly defined by
[TUNNEL-ENCAP]).

There is also not a listed reference for [EVPN-PREFIX], though one could
perhaps surmise that it is intended to be
[I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-prefix-advertisement] (given that the latter does
allocate EVPN route type 5 for carrying IP Prefix routes, etx.).
However, given that this document has text like "MUST advertise local
subnet routes as RT-5", this needs to be a normative (not informative)
reference.  (We may also want to explicitly reference [EVPN-PREFIX]
where those normative requirements are made.)

(3) I'm not sure whether we are modifying the error-handling semantics
for RT-2 from what is specified in RFC 7432 (and, furthermore, whether
the changes are backwards-compatible).  If so, it seems like we may need
an Updates: relationship.  The text in question is in Section 9.1.1
(which itself seems problematic, since this section is advertised as an
(example) operational model/scenario):

   If the receiving NVE receives a RT-2 with only Label-1 and only a
   single Route Target corresponding to IP-VRF, or if it receives a RT-2
   with only a single Route Target corresponding to MAC-VRF but with
   both Label-1 and Label-2, or if it receives a RT-2 with MAC Address
   Length of zero, then it MUST treat the route as withdraw [RFC7606]
   and log an error message.

Are all of these treat-as-withdraw behaviors specified in RFC 7432?

(4) Let's discuss whether we need more generally a "backwards
compatibility" section (I mention a couple other places where this might
come into play, in the COMMENT).


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The shepherd writeup links to the IPR search page, which finds a
disclosure, yet also claims "no discussions".  In the absence of
explicit discussion, it's not clear that the WG actively concluded that
it's appropriate to publish despite the potential encumberance, though
I'm told that this is fairly common in the routing area (hence only a COMMENT).

Please use the BCP 14 boilerplate as given in RFC 8174 (i.e., including
"NOT RECOMMENDED" as a keyword).

I'm not entirely sure that the mobility procedures are fully specified
for producing correct operation, but I'm not confident enough in my
understanding of the setup to ballot Discuss over it.  I have lots of
inline comments for Section 7 (and subsections).

Section 2

   EVPN [RFC7432] provides an extensible and flexible multi-homing VPN
   solution over an MPLS/IP network for intra-subnet connectivity among
   Tenant Systems (TSes) and End Devices that can be physical or
   virtual; where an IP subnet is represented by an EVI for a VLAN-based
   service or by an (EVI, VLAN) for a VLAN-aware bundle service.

In the terminology section (Broadcast Domain definition) we considered
three classes of model: VLAN-bundle, VLAN-based, and VLAN-aware.  Should
we mention VLAN-bundle here as well?

   The inter-subnet communication is traditionally achieved at
   centralized L3 Gateway (L3GW) devices where all the inter-subnet
   forwarding are performed and all the inter-subnet communication
   policies are enforced.  When two TSes belonging to two different
[...]
   In order to overcome the drawback of centralized layer-3 GW approach,
   IRB functionality is needed on the PEs (also referred to as EVPN
   NVEs) attached to TSes in order to avoid inefficient forwarding of
   tenant traffic (i.e., avoid back-hauling and hair-pinning).  When a

It feels like there's a bit of jargon in here that wasn't captured in
the terminology section (or references).  None of it seems particularly
inscrutable to me, personally, but perhaps it's worth another thought.

   PE with IRB capability receives tenant traffic over an Attachment
   Circuit (AC), it can not only locally bridge the tenant intra-subnet
   traffic but also can locally route the tenant inter-subnet traffic on
   a packet by packet basis thus meeting the requirements for both intra
   and inter-subnet forwarding and avoiding non-optimum traffic
   forwarding associated with centralized layer-3 GW approach.

nit(?): mybe "avoiding the non-optimal traffic forwarding"?

Section 3

   BD).  If service interfaces for an EVPN PE are configured in VLAN-
   Based mode (i.e., section 6.1 of RFC7432), then there is only a
   single BT per MAC-VRF (per EVI) - i.e., there is only one tenant VLAN
   per EVI.  However, if service interfaces for an EVPN PE are
   configured in VLAN-Aware Bundle mode (i.e., section 6.3 of RFC7432),
   then there are several BTs per MAC-VRF (per EVI) - i.e., there are
   several tenant VLANs per EVI.

[Is VLAN-bundle excluded again here?  No need to repeat the response,
just noting it as similar.]

Section 4

I think Figures 2 and 3 would benefit from some visual indication that
the "top half" is in "IP space" but the "bottom half" is in "Ethernet
space".

   In symmetric IRB as shown in figure-2, the inter-subnet forwarding
   between two PEs is done between their associated IP-VRFs.  Therefore,
   the tunnel connecting these IP-VRFs can be either IP-only tunnel (in
   case of MPLS or GENEVE encapsulation) or Ethernet NVO tunnel (in case
   of VxLAN encapsulation).  [...]

[editorial]: there's nothing forbidding an Ethernet tunnel for this case
when using MPLS or GENEVE, right, it's just inefficient?  This text
could be read as saying that it's forbidden.

   to each BT via its associated IRB interface.  Each BT on a PE is
   associated with a unique VLAN (e.g., with a BD) where in turn is
   associated with a single MAC-VRF in case of VLAN-Based mode or a
   number of BTs can be associated with a single MAC-VRF in case of
   VLAN-Aware Bundle mode.  Whether the service interface on a PE is

nit: missing "it", probably for "where in turn it is associated".

   VLAN-Based or VLAN-Aware Bundle mode does not impact the IRB
   operation and procedures.  It mainly impacts the setting of Ethernet

[noting another non-mention of VLAN-bundle mode]

   tag field in EVPN BGP routes as described in [RFC7432].

Perhaps this is clear to most people, but I think I would benefit from a
section reference within 7432 or another sentence indicating how this
works.

Figure 4 has a line for "Mx/IPx" in PE1 but no corresponding line in
PE2.  Since the IP address of the VRF is anycase, we can presume that
PE2 also uses IPx, but I'm not entirely sure what the "Mx" represents
for PE1 and what the corresponding behavior for PE2 would be.

Section 4.1

   It is worth noting that if the applications that are running on the
   TSes are employing or relying on any form of MAC security, then
   either the first model (i.e. using anycast MAC address) should be
   used to ensure that the applications receive traffic from the same
   IRB interface MAC address that they are sending to, or if the second
   model is used, then the IRB interface MAC address MUST be the one
   used in the initial ARP reply or ND Neighbor Advertisement (NA)for
   that TS.

nit: the "either" here seems redundant.  There are only two choices, so
to say "either do (1) or, if you do (2), also do this" is equivalent to
just saying "if you do (2), also do this", optionally with a note that
(1) also works and is simpler.  E.g.,

% It is worth noting that if the applications that are running on the
% TSes are employing or relying on any form of MAC security, then when
% using the second model (using per-PE MAC addresses), the IRB interface
% MAC address MUST be the one used in the initial ARP reply or ND
% Neighbor Advertisement (NA) for that TS.

   Although both of these options are equally applicable to both
   [...]
   the VLANs for that tenant.  Furthermore, it simplifies the operation
   as there is no need for Default Gateway extended community
   advertisement and its associated MAC aliasing procedure.  Yet another
   advantage is that following host mobility, the host does not need to
   refresh the default GW ARP/ND entry.

We're really promoting option-1 here, almost to the extent that we
should ask if option-2 needs to be mentioned at all.  The only benefit I
can think of so far is that for option-1 you have to share MACsec keys
all over the place, which option-2 avoids (to be fair, this is a
significant advantage in some cases); are there other benefits?

   Where the last octet is generated based on a configurable Virtual
   Router ID (VRID, range 1-255)).  If not explicitly configured, the
   default value for the VRID octet is '01'.  Auto-derivation of the

We could perhaps not mix decimal and (presumed) hex in the same
paragraph.

   anycast MAC can only be used if there is certainty that the auto-
   derived MAC does not collide with any customer MAC address.

Per the Discuss point, how might such certainty be obtained?  I note
that there does not seem to be anything preventing new customer MAC
addresses from appearing at any time.  (It also seems like this risk of
collision would hold however the PE MAC addresses are selected?)

   Irrespective of using only the anycast address or both anycast and
   non-anycast addresses on the same IRB, when a TS sends an ARP request
   or ND Neighbor Solicitation (NS) to the PE that is attached to, the
   request is sent for the anycast IP address of the IRB interface
   associated with the TS's subnet and the reply will use anycast MAC
   address (in both Source MAC in the Ethernet header and Sender
   hardware address in the payload).  [...]

nit(?): I don't really see how the declarative "the [ARP or NS] request
is sent for the anycast IP address can place such a restriction on the
TS behavior; are we intending to instead say that "when a [ARP or NS]
request is sent for the anycast IP address of [the IRB interface], the
reply will use the anycase MAC address", with a more clear cause/effect
relationship?

   Traffic routed from IP-VRF1 to TS1 SHOULD use the anycast MAC address
   as source MAC address.

When would this SHOULD be violated?

Section 5.1

   When a PE (e.g., PE1 in figure 4 above) learns MAC and IP address of
   a TS (via an ARP request), it adds the MAC address to the

nit: in Section 6.1 this parenthetical is "e.g., via an ARP request".

   o  Route Distinguisher (RD), Ethernet Segment Identifier, Ethernet
      Tag ID, MAC Address Length, MAC Address, IP Address Length, IP
      Address, and MPLS Label1 fields MUST be set per [RFC7432] and
      [RFC8365].

(side note) I would have an easier time understanding what is needed if
we phrased this in terms of "the same values as used for [some existing
advertisement]", but I'm also not in the target audience for this
document, so maybe that is not a good idea.

   o  The MPLS Label2 field is set to either an MPLS label or a VNI
      corresponding to the tenant's IP-VRF.  In case of an MPLS label,
      this field is encoded as 3 octets, where the high-order 20 bits
      contain the label value.

How do I choose between MPLS label and VNI?

Section 5.2

   The inclusion of MPLS label2 field in this route signals to the
   receiving PE that this route is for symmetric IRB mode and MPLS
   label2 needs to be installed in forwarding path to identify the
   corresponding IP-VRF.

How does the receiving PE know whether the label2 field is a label or a
VNI?  (Maybe a section reference to RFC 8365 would be useful, not
necessarily right here, but perhaps from earlier in this document.)

   If the receiving PE receives this route with both the MAC-VRF and IP-
   VRF route targets but the MAC/IP Advertisement route does not include
   MPLS label2 field and if the receiving PE supports asymmetric IRB
   mode, then the receiving PE installs the MAC address in the
   corresponding MAC-VRF and (IP, MAC) association in the ARP table for
   that tenant (identified by the corresponding IP-VRF route target).

[a little surprising to see this given that Section 5 is about
"Symmetric IRB Procedures", but I guess it makes sense to say something,
so I shouldn't quibble about what form that something takes.]

   If the receiving PE receives this route with both the MAC-VRF and IP-
   VRF route targets and if the receiving PE does not support either
   asymmetric or symmetric IRB modes, then if it has the corresponding
   MAC-VRF, it only imports the MAC address; otherwise, if it doesn't
   have the corresponding MAC-VRF, it MUST not import this route.

I can't quite tell if this MUST NOT (nit: "NOT" should be capital, too)
is just re-expressing the preexisting behavior for non-IRB EVPN behavior
or if it's a new normative requirement.

Section 5.3

   only if that PE has locally attached hosts in that subnet.  In order
   to enable inter-subnet routing across PEs in a deployment where all
   subnets are not provisioned at all PEs participating in an EVPN IRB
   instance, PEs MUST advertise local subnet routes as RT-5.  These

nit: "where all subnets are not provisioned at all PEs participating"
has a slightly different meaning than "where not all subnets are
provisioned at all PEs participating".  I suspect the latter is what's
intended, though I am not 100% sure.

   Consider a subnet A that is locally attached to PE1 and subnet B that
   is locally attached to PE2 and to PE3.  Host A in subnet A, that is
   attached to PE1 initiates a data packet destined to host B in subnet
   B that is attached to PE3.  If host B's (MAC, IP) has not yet been

Could we perhaps use different names/symbols for subnets and hosts
within them?

   subnet B locally attached.  Once the packet is received at PE2 OR
   PE3, and the route lookup yields a glean result, an ARP request is
   triggered and flooded across the layer-2 overlay.  This ARP request
   would be received and replied to by host B, resulting in host B (MAC,
   IP) learning at PE3, and its advertisement across the EVPN network.

(side note) When I first read this, the "layer-2 overlay" (vs. "layer-3
overlay") confused me, but I think I figured it out.  To check: the ARP
request on the layer-2 overlay is needed in order to cover all of subnet
B (and thus, to meet the criterion that the packet from PE1 has to be
able to be processed whether it arrives at PE2 or PE3).  The ARP request
triggers the PE to which host B is attached in order to advertise the
EVPN route over BGP, so that PE1 learns about host B's (MAC, IP) and can
send directly to PE3 in the future.

Section 5.4

   routed.  Hence, the ingress PE performs an IP lookup in the
   associated IP-VRF table.  The lookup identifies BGP next hop of

(This is a lookup of the destination IP address, right?)

Also, nit: "the BGP next hop" (and "the egress PE" going into the next
line).

   label is set to the received label2 in the route.  In case of
   Ethernet NVO tunnel type, VNI may be set one of two ways:
   [...]
   PE's may be configured to operate in one of these two modes depending
   on the administrative domain boundaries across PEs participating in
   the NVO, and PE's capability to support downstream VNI mode.

Is it safe to mix these two ways in a single deployment, or does the
operator need to be careful to provide homogeneous configuration?

Section 6.2

   o  Using MAC-VRF route target, it identifies the corresponding MAC-

Can a non-zero Ethernet Tag also come into play here (as was the case
for Symmetric operation)?

      An implementation may choose to consolidate the lookup at the
      ingress PE's IP-VRF with the lookup at the ingress PE's
      destination subnet MAC-VRF.  Consideration for such consolidation
      of lookups is an implementation exercise and thus its
      specification is outside the scope of this document.

(This feels a little redundant with the earlier text in Section 4 (where
we described the operation with "collapsed" vs. "consolidate" here).)

   If the receiving PE receives the MAC/IP Advertisement route with MPLS
   label2 field and it can support symmetric IRB mode, then it should
   use the MAC-VRF route target to identify its corresponding MAC-VRF
   table and import the MAC address.  It should use the IP-VRF route
   target to identify the corresponding IP-VRF table and import the IP
   address, as specified in symmetric IRB handling.  It MUST NOT import
   (IP, MAC) association into its ARP table.

I don't think I understand why this is a MUST NOT, especially since we
do store the (IP, MAC) association in the ARP table in the previous
paragraph's case.

Section 7

The mobility procedures in Section 15 of RFC 7432 on paper don't have
very great security properties -- at any remote signal indicating a
mobility event for a given MAC address, a PE advertising reachability to
that MAC will withdraw the route.  (Though, this is probably something
of a "the entire system is trusted" effect.)  Perhaps local learning
would cause it to be reintrodced if the MAC in question had not actually
moved away, but there seems to be some risk of flapping and triggering
the MAC Duplication detection.  The concrete advice we give in Section
7.1 to send a local ARP probe is good, but how rigid does the sequencing
need to be amongst (receive EVPN MAC/IP Advertisement, send local ARP
probe/wait for response, and withdraw EVPN Mac/IP Advertisement)?  If
there was a way to avoid the need to withdraw+readvertise step, it seems
like that might be preferable.

Can we confirm that the backwards- and forwards-compatibility story is
okay for mixed deployments with "stock EVPN" vs. IRB-enhanced EVPN (this
document)?  It looks like we are using the MAC Mobility Extended
Community to signal both MAC and IP mobility events, but I am not sure
that I can reason through all the cases and confirm that the right thing
happens.

Also, do all NVEs need to be prepared to cope with all three classes of
TS behavior at all times?  That seems like something worth stating more
clearly.

Section 7.2

   If EVPN-IRB NVEs are configured to advertise MAC-only routes in
   addition to MAC-and-IP EVPN routes, then the following steps are
   taken:

Does this configuration need to be globally consistent across all PEs?
If so, where do we state this requirement?

   o  The target NVE upon learning this MAC address in data-plane,
      updates this MAC address entry in the corresponding MAC-VRF with
      the local adjacency information (e.g., local interface).  It also
      recognizes that this MAC has moved and initiates MAC mobility
      procedures per [RFC7432] by advertising an EVPN MAC/IP
      Advertisement route with only the MAC address filled in along with
      MAC Mobility Extended Community with the sequence number
      incremented by one.

The lead-in had "in addition to MAC-and-IP EVPN routes", but this
step only does the MAC EVPN route.  It looks like the MAC-and-IP route
will be added later, in the third step; would it make sense to switch
this to a numbered list and mention that the additional route will be
added in step 3?

      advertised such route previously).  Furthermore, it searches for
      the corresponding MAC-IP entry and sends an ARP probe for this
      (MAC,IP) pair.  The ARP request message is sent both locally to
      all attached TSes in that subnet as well as it is sent to other
      NVEs participating in that subnet including the target NVE.  Note

I think a comment about the sequencing of this ARP request, similar to
my comment above, may apply.  But here the ARP request is sent both
locally and remotely, whereas previously it was only needed locally.  I
confess I don't understand what the difference is between the cases that
makes it okay for the Section-7.1 scenario to only send the ARP probe
locally.

Also, what happens if we get a response back from the local TSes (in
addition to the actions from the target NVE covered in the next bullet
point)?

      that the PE would need to maintain a correlation between MAC and
      MAC-IP route entries in the MAC-VRF to accomplish this.

I find this "would need to" language very concerning.  If this is
required for correct operation, isn't it a MUST?

   o  All other remote NVE devices upon receiving the MAC/IP
      advertisement route with MAC Mobility extended community compare

Does this only happen when they receive the EVPN MAC/IP Advertisement
route with both MAC and IP address information (vs. the earlier one with
just MAC information)?

   If EVPN-IRB NVEs are configured not to advertise MAC-only routes,
   then upon receiving the first data packet, it learns the MAC address

(editorial) The description for the MAC,MAC+IP case is quite involved and
has many separate steps, but the MAC+IP-only case in this paragraph is
much simpler, and so the description for it does not have a parallel
structure to the MAC,MAC+IP case.  Perhaps splitting into subsections
might help make it clear that, despite the difference in complexity, the
procedures in question are actually quite parallel in the nature of what
role they play.

Section 7.3

   On the source NVE, an age-out timer (for the silent host that has
   moved) is used to trigger an ARP probe.  This age-out timer can be
   either ARP timer or MAC age-out timer and this is an implementation
   choice.  The ARP request gets sent both locally to all the attached
   TSes on that subnet as well as it gets sent to all the remote NVEs
   (including the target NVE) participating in that subnet.  The source
   NVE also withdraw the EVPN MAC/IP Advertisement route with only the
   MAC address (if it has previously advertised such a route).

Does this route withdraw occur at the same time that the ARP probe is
sent, or only if there is not a response?

Also, does this need for a timer-driven full broadcast ARP probe impose
any scaling limits on the number of subnets that can be joined via IRB
for intra-subnet traffic?  (I don't expect there to be fundamentally
different scaling properties than for more typical ARP usage, but it's a
question about whether the joining of subnets will cause the limit to be
reached before other scaling limits would be reached.)

   The target NVE passes the ARP request to its locally attached TSes
   and when it receives the ARP response, it updates its MAC-VRF, IP-
   VRF, and ARP table with the host (MAC, IP) and local adjacency
   information (e.g., local interface).  It also sends an EVPN MAC/IP
   advertisement route with both the MAC and IP address fields filled in
   along with MAC Mobility Extended Community with the sequence number
   incremented by one.

Do we need to mention the possibility of an EVPN MAC/IP Advertisement
route with only the MAC address here, as well?

   All other remote NVE devices upon receiving the MAC/IP Advertisement
   route route with MAC Mobility extended community compare the sequence

[this is the one with both MAC and IP filled in, right?]

Section 8.1

   This extended community is used to carry the PE's MAC address for
   symmetric IRB scenarios and it is sent with RT-2.

It's only needed for specifically the Ethernet NVO tunnel (not MPLS or
IP-only NVO) symmetric IRB scenarios, right?

Section 9

I see that we only give examples/operational models for the symmetric
IRB case and for scenarios with IP subnets behind tenant systems.  Is
there any desire to give a similar example for asymmetric IRB?

Section 9, 9.1

   procedures.  In the following scenarios, without loss of generality,
   it is assumed that a given tenant is represented by a single IP-VPN
   instance.  [...]
   In this scenario, without loss of generality, it is assumed that NVEs
   operate in VLAN-based service interface mode with one Bridge
   Table (BT) per MAC-VRF.  [...]

Just to check my understanding: the "more general" case would have,
e.g., multiple IP-VPN instsances for a single tenant, or ... multiple
BTs per MAC-VRF?  I guess for the former case the IP-VPN instances would
be logically separate (absent some central L3GW), but I'm not really
sure what the latter case would look like.  Though maybe the VLAN-aware
bundling case in the following sentences (with multiple BTs per MAC-VRF)
is exactly the generalization being assumed here?

Section 9.1.1

   o  If the route carries the new Router's MAC Extended Community, and
      if the receiving NVE uses Ethernet NVO tunnel, then the receiving
      NVE imports the IP address into IP-VRF with NVE's MAC address

What does the receiving NVE do if it uses Ethernet NVO tunnels but the
route does not carry the Router's MAC Extended Community?

   o  If the receiving NVE ration MPLS encapsulation, then the receiving
      NVE imports the IP address into IP-VRF with BGP Next Hop address

What does "ration" mean here?

   If the receiving NVE receives a RT-2 with only Label-1 and only a
   single Route Target corresponding to IP-VRF, or if it receives a RT-2
   with only a single Route Target corresponding to MAC-VRF but with
   both Label-1 and Label-2, or if it receives a RT-2 with MAC Address
   Length of zero, then it MUST treat the route as withdraw [RFC7606]
   and log an error message.

Is this changing the error handling for the existing RT-2 advertisement?
How is such a change backwards compatible?

Also, a "MUST log" without rate-limiting risks mandating a DoS channel.

Section 9.1.2

   o  On the egress NVE, if the packet arrives on Ethernet NVO tunnel
      (e.g., it is VxLAN encapsulated), then the NVO tunnel header is

(side note) I can't decide whether it's good or bad that we use VxLAN as
the example here vs. the explicit MPLS/etc. mentions in the previous
point.  On the one hand, it lets us mention all the various different
implementation technologies, but on the other hand we don't have a
coherent thread to tie the steps together.

Section 9.2

   their next hop.  The receiving NVEs perform recursive route
   resolution to resolve the subnet prefix with its associated ingress
   NVE so that they know which NVE to forward the packets to when they
   are destined for that subnet prefix.

nit(?): is the "ingress" part important here?  The "forward the packets
to" operation would seem to be describing a case where that NVE is
acting as egress, at least...

   and MAC-VRF3 across two NVEs.  There are four TSes associated with
   these three MAC-VRFs - i.e., TS1, TS5 are connected to MAC-VRF1 on

[there is no TS5 in the figure]

Section 9.2.1

   o  Label = 0

[draft-ietf-bess-evpn-prefix-advertisement seems to describe this field
as the "MPLS Label".]

   This RT-5 is advertised with one or more Route Targets that have been
   configured as "export route targets" of the IP-VRF from which the
   route is originated.

This is the only place in this document where we use the phrase "export
route target" and no reference is provided; please clarify what is
meant.

   o  It imports the IP prefix into its corresponding IP-VRF that is
      configured with an import RT that is one of the RTs being carried
      by the RT-5 route along with the IP address of the associated TS
      as its next hop.

The phrase "that is one of the RTs being carried by the RT-5 route"
seems like it leaves a significant degree of freedom to the receiving
NVE.  Do we want to make this more precisely specified?

Section 9.2.2

   The following description of the data-plane operation describes just
   the logical functions and the actual implementation may differ.  Lets
   consider data-plane operation when a host on SN1 sitting behind TS1
   wants to send traffic to a host sitting behind SN3 behind TS3.

   o  TS1 send a packet with MAC DA corresponding to the MAC-VRF1 IRB
      interface of NVE1, and VLAN-tag corresponding to MAC-VRF1.

[I guess the step where there's an ethernet frame from SN1 to TS1 is
boring and okay to skip?]

Section 11

I agree with the secdir reviewer's comment that incorporating by
reference the security considerations of the core protocol RFCs would be
worthwhile.

Similarly, a reminder seems appropriate (a la RFC 4365) that this VPN
scheme does not provide the usual quartet of security properties that we
ask about (confidentiality protection, source authentication, integrity
protection, replay protection), and that if such functionality is needed
it must be provided in some other manner.

   Furthermore, the security consideration for layer-3 routing is this
   document follows that of [RFC4365] with the exception for application

The Security Considerations of RFC 4365 notes that RFC 4111 provides a
template "that may be used to evaluate and summarize how a given PPVPN
approach (solution) measures up against the PPVPN Security Framework".
Given that the IP-layer inter-subnet routing introduced by this document
is in some sense a new L3VPN technology, would it be appropriate to fill
out that template as it applies here?  It's unfortunate that RFC 7432
does not itself fill out the template from RFC 4111, as it would be
useful to have that information readily available as well (though I
understand that the L2-only parts of the mechanims described in this
document are essentially unchanged from RFC 7432 and it is only our
responsibility to document otherwise-undocumented critical security
flaws).

I think we should note that the asymmetric IRB scheme leaves tenant MAC
addresses visible in cleartext (absent other cryptographic protections)
over the backbone/underlay, which has potential privacy consequences.

The mechanisms in this document bring additional exposure/usage for
per-NVE IP and MAC addresses, at least some of which may be (locally)
automatically generated in some cases; it might be appropriate to
discuss how the system would fail if there were collisions in these
identifiers between NVEs.

As alluded to in a couple of my previous comments, we may also wish to
discuss any scaling issues (and consequent DoS risks) that may arise due
to the need for NVEs to store additional state in ARP tables and
IP-VRFs.  (If such risks are negligible, then maybe not.)

There probably aren't any additional mobility-related security
considerations other than what RFC 7432 discusses (but mentioning
mobility concerns specifically may still be worthwhile).

Section 14.1

RFC 8214 is listed as a normative reference but not cited anywhere.
Should it be removed, or citations added?

Section 14.2

RFC 7606 seems like it should be normative, since we use it to define
what "treat the route as withdraw" means, which itself is behavior
mandated at a MUST level.




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Erik Kline has entered the following ballot position for
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[ general ]

* Can you give an example of what happens to non-IPv4/IPv6 Ethernet packets
  received at the NVE/PE?  Do they get bridged, and if so how far?  What
  happens if a host in BT1 ARPs for IPv4 address associated with a TS in
  a different BT?

* Where there are multiple prefixes in an IP-VRF, is there a constraint that
  any other IP-VRF that contains one of the prefixes must contain all of them?
  Perhaps that's in 7432...?

[ sections 4, 5.4, 5.4, 6.3, 6.4, 9.1.2, 9.2.2 ]

* Please document what happens to IPv4 TTL/IPv6 Hop Limit values as they
  cross various NVEs/PEs.

[ section 7 ]

* Is there a reference for IRB-EXT-MOBILITY?

* The two statements:

  (1) "Although the language used in this section is for IPv4 ARP,
      it equally applies to IPv6 ND."

  (2) "If there is [a] many-to-one relationship such that there are many host
      IP addresses correspond[ing] to a single host MAC address ..., then to
      detect host mobility, the procedures in [IRB-EXT-MOBILITY] must be
      exercised..."

  are in direct conflict.  All IPv6 hosts having at least one non-link-local
  unicast address will have more than one IP address per MAC and this section,
  or even this document, would not apply?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[ general ]

* I believe this is true, but can you just state here (not in the doc) that
  there are no multi-link subnets that can be created with this model as
  defined in RFC 4903? It seems like everything is as it should be, but just
  to double-check.

[ section 1 ]

* IP-VRF definition: s/VPN Routing.../Virtual Routing/?

[ section 3 ]

* 2nd to last paragraph: Is any of this still true for a setup that
  involves multiple IPv6 prefixes per BD, maybe I misunderstood
  (or maybe this assumed single prefix per broadcast domain w/ IPv4-only?).

  Perhaps avoid suggesting there's a 1:1 relationship and use phrases
  likes "at least as many X as there are Y" or something?

[ section 4 ]

* ARP table: a less IPv4-specific name, even though it's define to hold both
  IPv4 and IPv6 associations, would be "neighbor table".  That might be
  overloaded in routing contexts so no need to change it.




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From: "Parag Jain (paragj)" <paragj@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>
CC: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>, Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] FW: WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
Thread-Index: AQHWV/92yJGQxTvMgEyrcnOa6kCFj6kIac6A
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:47:08 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] [mpls] FW: WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I support the DISCUSS ballot position of Erik Kline

I support the DISCUSS ballot position of Alvaro Retana

I support the DISCUSS ballot position of Ben Kaduk

Not much to add to the feedback of my peer ADs.

** Please respond to the SECDIR feedback (and thank you Chris Lonvick for doing
it!)

** Section 11.  As there is nothing documented to prevent this approach from
being used across administrative domains with different policies (i.e., there
is no applicability statement or normative language providing caution from
being used outside of the commonly reference data center use case) or any
security assumptions made about the elements involved, please reiterate that
there are no inherent security services being provided to protect the traffic. 
If this is desired it should provide through other means.




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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with the other ADs that this document seemed terse in places and won't
repeat those same comments here.

One question I have is whether it is possible to have a deployment where some
devices support synchronous mode and others support asynchronous mode.  Am I
right in presuming that this is not supported and if so is this capability
signaled in any way? Or is the expectation that this would be controlled via
deployment choice of network device, or though configuration management?

Regards,
Rob




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From: "Najem, Basil" <basil.najem@bell.ca>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org" <draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: RE BGP Usage for SDWAN Overlay Networks Adoption
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Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2020 22:14:32 +0000
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Subject: [bess] RE BGP Usage for SDWAN Overlay Networks Adoption
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Good Day;

As one of the authors of the this document "BGP Usage for SDWAN Overlay Net=
works draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-06 " (see the link https://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/<https://nam11.safelinks=
.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fd=
raft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurew=
ei.com%7Cda7df78d38a349fa7aea08d81897aa14%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fed=
c%7C1%7C0%7C637286386963995174&sdata=3Dv9TV3YnBQXMooRavPrgymvGtMWFopNMGQ62G=
m%2B7jHBI%3D&reserved=3D0>), I support the adoption of the document ONLY if=
 the following comments are taken into the consideration:



1-      Section 1, Page 3: There more characteristics of the SDWAN Service =
that needs to be captured. For example, the Application Routing based on sp=
ecific performance criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter) is us=
ed to  provide better application performance by choosing the right underla=
y that meets or exceeds the specified criteria; SD-WAN is doing this effici=
ently. This must be added for clarity and to avoid any misleading to the re=
ader

2-      Section 2, Page 5:  What's the definition of the "SDWAN edge node"?=
 Also, the SDWAN End-point has different definition at MEF 70.x; is the SDW=
AN End-point (in this document) the same as  the one in MEF 70.x? We need t=
o be clear about using the right terminology and its usage.

3-      Section 3.1.1, Page 6: it would be good to include the reference to=
 and the picture of the format of the proposed BGP Extended Community value=
 (i.e. SD-WAN Target ID) and its value

4-      Section 3.3, Page 11: For clarity add (after the end of the paragra=
ph) the following sentence "If all the traffic is encrypted on all WAN port=
s (i.e. the C-PE WAN ports that are connected to the Internet and Private V=
PN network), then this will be similar to Scenario#1"

5-      Section 4.1, Page 17 (Fig. 6): There is NO colors in the figure; th=
ere should be RED and BLUE colors in the figure to match the paragraph

6-      Section 4.2, Page 18 (Fig. 7): There is NO Purple nor RED colors in=
 the figure. There should be colors in the figure

7-      Section 5.2, Page 22: This paragraph is not clear! the SD-WAN doesn=
't interact with the underlay PE nor it does exchange keys/policies with th=
e PE. This is not the intent of the SD-WAN (as an overlay service). What's =
the purpose of this section?

8-      Section 6, Page 26: The SDWAN Edge node that is directly connected =
to the Client Network (CN) learns the routes from the client (at this speci=
fic location) and then re-distribute this to the RR. This is needs to be cl=
arified here

Best Regards;

Basil Najem






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<body lang=3D"EN-CA" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:EN-US">Good Day;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">As one of the authors of the this doc=
ument &#8220;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-US">BGP Usage for SDWAN Overlay
 Networks draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-06 &#8220; (see the link </span=
><span lang=3D"FR"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-bess-bgp-s=
dwan-usage%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Cda7df78d3=
8a349fa7aea08d81897aa14%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637286=
386963995174&amp;sdata=3Dv9TV3YnBQXMooRavPrgymvGtMWFopNMGQ62Gm%2B7jHBI%3D&a=
mp;reserved=3D0"><span lang=3D"EN-CA">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf=
t-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/</span></a></span>),
 I support the adoption of the document <u>ONLY if </u>the following commen=
ts are taken into the consideration:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-farea=
st-language:EN-US">Section 1, Page 3:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There more characteristics =
of the SDWAN Service that needs to be captured. For example, the Applicatio=
n Routing based on specific performance criteria
 (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter) is used to &nbsp;provide better =
application performance by choosing the right underlay that meets or exceed=
s the specified criteria; SD-WAN is doing this efficiently. This must be ad=
ded for clarity and to avoid any misleading
 to the reader</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Sego=
e UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-farea=
st-language:EN-US">Section 2, Page 5:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US=
">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">&nbsp;What's the definition=
 of the &#8220;SDWAN edge node&#8221;? Also, the SDWAN End-point has differ=
ent definition at MEF 70.x; is the SDWAN End-point (in this document)
 the same as &nbsp;the one in MEF 70.x? We need to be clear about using the=
 right terminology and its usage.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-farea=
st-language:EN-US">Section 3.</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;=
font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">1.1=
, Page 6:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">it would be good to inc=
lude the reference to and the picture of the format of the proposed BGP Ext=
ended Community value (i.e. SD-WAN Target ID)
 and its value</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Sego=
e UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">4-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Section 3.3,=
 Page 11:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">For clarity add (after =
the end of the paragraph) the following sentence &quot;If all the traffic i=
s encrypted on all WAN ports (i.e. the C-PE WAN ports
 that are connected to the Internet and Private VPN network), then this wil=
l be similar to Scenario#1&quot;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">5-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Section 4.1,=
 Page 17 (Fig. 6):
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There is NO colors in t=
he figure; there should be RED and BLUE colors in the figure to match the p=
aragraph
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,san=
s-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-languag=
e:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">6-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Section =
4.2, Page 18 (Fig. 7):
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There is NO Purple nor =
RED colors in the figure. There should be colors in the figure</span><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;ms=
o-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">7-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Section 5.2,=
 Page 22:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">This paragraph is not c=
lear! the SD-WAN doesn't interact with the underlay PE nor it does exchange=
 keys/policies with the PE. This is not the
 intent of the SD-WAN (as an overlay service). What's the purpose of this s=
ection?</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&qu=
ot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">8-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Section 6, P=
age 26:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The SDWAN Edge node tha=
t is directly connected to the Client Network (CN) learns the routes from t=
he client (at this specific location) and then
 re-distribute this to the RR. This is needs to be clarified here</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;ms=
o-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:=
EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:=
EN-US">Best Regards;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:=
EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:=
EN-US">Basil Najem<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-l=
anguage:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
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--_000_c1110795509f47f895792293728a17f4DG4MBX02WYNbellcorpbcec_--


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From: "Boutros, Sami" <sboutros@ciena.com>
To: "Parag Jain (paragj)" <paragj@cisco.com>, "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [**EXTERNAL**] Re: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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Subject: Re: [bess] [**EXTERNAL**] Re:  WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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From: "Boutros, Sami" <sboutros@ciena.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
CC: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve@ietf.org>, "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [**EXTERNAL**] Re: WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01
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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 14:40:11 +0000
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From: "Voyer, Daniel" <daniel.voyer@bell.ca>
To: "Boutros, Sami" <sboutros=40ciena.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Parag Jain (paragj)" <paragj@cisco.com>, "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [EXT]Re: [bess] [**EXTERNAL**] Re:  WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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Subject: Re: [bess] [**EXTERNAL**] Re:  WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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I have reviewed the doc and have the following comments.

Anoop

==
authors:
Jorge is listed as working at Juniper but with a Nokia address. :)

Throughout the document:
Mixed use of GENEVE and Geneve.
Suggest making it consistent (should be Geneve per the Geneve draft).
There are also several occurrences of GENVE.  (A typo.)

pg 1, abstract
>>

EVPN control plane can also be used by a Network Virtualization
   Endpoints (NVEs) to express Geneve tunnel option TLV(s)supported in
   transmission and/or reception of Geneve encapsulated data packets.

>>
to
>>

EVPN control plane can also be used by Network Virtualization
   Edges (NVEs) to express Geneve tunnel option TLV(s) supported in
   the transmission and/or reception of Geneve encapsulated data packets.

>>
(remove 'a', Endpoints -> Edges, add missing space after TLV(s), add 'the'
before transmission)

sec 1, pg 2
>>

The NVO3 working group have been working on
   different dataplane encapsulations.  The Generic Network
   Virtualizationi Encapsulation [I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve>]
have been
   recently recommended to be the proposed standard for network
   virtualization overlay encapsulation.

>>

to

>>

The NVO3 working group has evaluated
   different dataplane encapsulations.  The Generic Network
   Virtualization Encapsulation [I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve>]
has been
   recently recommended to be the proposed standard for NVO3

   encapsulation.

>>

(fixed typos and grammar.)


control plane determines ->

control plane determine


pg 3

Network Virtualization Edge devices (NVEs) ->

Network Virtualization Edges (NVEs)


>>

   This EVPN control plane extension will allow a Network Virtualization
   Edge (NVE) to express what Geneve option TLV types it is capable to

   receive or to send over the Geneve tunnel to its peers.

>>

to

>>

   This EVPN control plane extension will allow an NVE

   to express what Geneve option TLV types it is capable of
   receiving from, or sending to, over the Geneve tunnel with

   its peers.

>>


sec 3 seems to be a mix of abbreviations and terminology.  Would
adjust the title to cover both or split in 2 sections, one for each.


sec 3, pg 3

NVO3 Network Virtualization Overlays over Layer 3 ->

NVO3: Network Virtualization Overlays over Layer 3.


pg 4.

>>>

4 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#section-4>.
GENEVE extensions

   This document adds some extensions to the [I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve>]
   encapsulation that are relevant to the operation of EVPN.
4.1 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#section-4.1>.
Ethernet option TLV

>>>

If there is only 1 extension, then I would say "document adds an extension...".


pg 4

For GENVE encapsulation we need a bit to for this purpose. ->

For Geneve, we need to add a bit for this purpose.


pg5

>>

   Where: - Option Class is set to Ethernet (new Option Class requested
   to IANA) - Type is set to EVPN-OPTION (new type requested to IANA)
   and C bit must be set.  - B bit is set to 1 for BUM traffic.  - L bit
   is set to 1 for Leaf-Indication.  - Source-ID is a 24-bit value that
   encodes the ESI-label value signaled on the EVPN Autodiscovery per-ES
   routes, as described in [RFC7432
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7432>] for multi-homing and [RFC8317
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8317>] for
   leaf-to-leaf BUM filtering.  The ESI-label value is encoded in the
   high-order 20 bits of the Source-ESI field.

>>

This could benefit from some formatting.  Very hard to read, as is.

R bit is not defined.

EVPN-OPTION appears to be missing from IANA section.


 "Local- bias" -> "Local-bias

ESI- labels -> ESI-labels

(extra space)


>>

   The egress NVEs that make use of ESIs in the data path (because they
   have a local multi-homed ES or support [RFC8317
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8317>]

>>

Missing a closing parenthesis.


>>>

The use of the B bit is only relevant
   to GENEVE packets with Protocol Type 0x6558 (Bridged Ethernet).

>>>

The entire option is relevant only for bridged ethernet, right?  What should

an implementation do if it receives a packet where this is in conflict?


pg 6

>>>

Where, an NVE receiving the above sub-TLV, will send GENEVE packets
   to the originator NVE with with only the option TLVs the receiver NVE
   is capable of receiving, and following the same order.

>>>

This statement could be made clearer.  I think it's combining control

plane and data plane when describing originator or receiver.  Also, there

are 2 "withs".


>>>

Also the high order bit in the type, is the critical bit, MUST be set
accordingly.

>>>

Please elaborate on what "set accordingly" means.  Use appropriate
reference to Geneve doc if needed.


>>>

In the datapath, NVE2, NVE3 and NVE4
   only encapsulate overlay packets with the Geneve option TLV(s) that
   NVE1 is capable of receiving.

>>>

to

>>>

In the datapath, NVE2, NVE3 and NVE4 may
only encapsulate overlay packets with the Geneve option TLV(s) that
NVE1 is capable of receiving, and in case more than one option TLV is

being used, they must be in the order specified by NVE1.

>>>


sec 7

>>

Security considerations described in [RFC7432
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7432>] and in
   [I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-overlay
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-overlay>]
are equally applicable.

>>

Also security considerations in the Geneve doc especially

since securing options in Geneve has been a tricky topic.


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:46 AM <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello WG,
>
>
>
> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01 [1].
>
>
>
> This poll runs until * the 27th Of July *.
>
>
>
> We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to
> this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with
> IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please
> respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
> relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from
> all the Authors and Contributors.
>
> There is currently no IPR disclosed.
>
>
>
> If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please
> explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been
> disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>
>
> We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Stephane & Matthew
>
>
>
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/
>
> [2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>

--0000000000008bc8dd05aac5ab0d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I have reviewed the doc and have the following commen=
ts.</div><div><br></div><div>Anoop</div><div><br></div><div>=3D=3D</div><di=
v><div>authors:</div><div>Jorge is listed as working at Juniper but with a =
Nokia address. :)</div><div><br></div><div>Throughout the document:</div><d=
iv>Mixed use of GENEVE and Geneve.</div><div>Suggest making it consistent (=
should be Geneve per the Geneve draft).</div><div>There are also several oc=
currences=C2=A0of GENVE.=C2=A0 (A typo.)</div><br><div>pg 1, abstract</div>=
<div>&gt;&gt;</div><div><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">EVPN control plane can also be used by a =
Network Virtualization
   Endpoints (NVEs) to express Geneve tunnel option TLV(s)supported in
   transmission and/or reception of Geneve encapsulated data packets.</pre>=
</div><div>&gt;&gt;</div><div>to </div><div>&gt;&gt;</div><div><pre style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">=
EVPN control plane can also be used by Network Virtualization
   Edges (NVEs) to express Geneve tunnel option TLV(s) supported in
   the transmission and/or reception of Geneve encapsulated data packets.</=
pre></div><div>&gt;&gt;</div><div>(remove &#39;a&#39;, Endpoints -&gt; Edge=
s, add missing space after TLV(s), add &#39;the&#39; before transmission)<b=
r></div><div><br>sec 1, pg 2</div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font=
-size:13.3333px">&gt;&gt;</span></div><div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px=
;break-before:page">The NVO3 working group have been working on
   different dataplane encapsulations.  The Generic Network
   Virtualizationi Encapsulation [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve" title=3D"&quot;Genev=
e: Generic Network Virtualization Encapsulation&quot;">I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve=
</a>] have been
   recently recommended to be the proposed standard for network
   virtualization overlay encapsulation.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" =
style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:=
0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;</pre>to</div><div><pre style=3D"margin-top:=
0px;margin-bottom:0px"><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,=
0);font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">=
&gt;&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-s=
ize:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">The NVO3 =
working group has evaluated
   different dataplane encapsulations.  The Generic Network
   Virtualization Encapsulation [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra=
ft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve" title=3D"&quot;Geneve=
: Generic Network Virtualization Encapsulation&quot;">I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve<=
/a>] has been
   recently recommended to be the proposed standard for NVO3</pre><pre clas=
s=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px;margin-to=
p:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">   encapsulation.<br></pre><pre =
class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px;margi=
n-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"=
gmail-newpage" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px=
;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D=
"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"></=
pre>(fixed typos and grammar.)<br><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"fon=
t-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><br></=
pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0p=
x;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">control plane determines -&gt;</pre>=
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">control plane determine</pre><pre class=
=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-botto=
m:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">pg 3<=
/pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0=
px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">Network Virtualization Edge devices=
 (NVEs) -&gt;</pre></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"color:rgb(0,=
0,0);font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page=
"><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;fon=
t-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Network Virtualization Edges (NVEs)</s=
pan><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;mar=
gin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gm=
ail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;=
break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Hel=
vetica,sans-serif">&gt;&gt;</span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"=
>   This EVPN control plane extension will allow a Network Virtualization
   Edge (NVE) to express what Geneve option TLV types it is capable to
</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:=
0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px=
;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">   receive or to send over the Gen=
eve tunnel to its peers.</span> </pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D=
"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&g=
t;&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margi=
n-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">to</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-=
newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;brea=
k-before:page">&gt;&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-siz=
e:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">   This EVP=
N control plane extension will allow an NVE</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpag=
e" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-befo=
re:page">   to express what Geneve option TLV types it is capable of
   receiving from, or sending to, over the Geneve tunnel with</pre><pre cla=
ss=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bot=
tom:0px;break-before:page">   its peers.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" =
style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:=
page">&gt;&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333=
px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-=
size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></pre><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margi=
n-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fam=
ily:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">sec 3 seems to be a mix of abbreviations an=
d terminology.  Would adjust the title to cover both or split in 2 sections=
, one for each.</span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size=
:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span>=
</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:=
0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px=
;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">sec 3, pg 3</span></pre><pre class=
=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-botto=
m:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Ari=
al,Helvetica,sans-serif">NVO3 Network Virtualization Overlays over Layer 3 =
-&gt;</span><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.33=
33px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><pre class=3D"gmai=
l-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;br=
eak-before:page">NVO3: Network Virtualization Overlays over Layer 3.
</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:=
0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newp=
age" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-be=
fore:page">pg 4.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.33=
33px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre>=
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span class=3D"gmail-h2" style=3D"displa=
y:inline;font-size:1em;font-weight:bold"><h2 style=3D"display:inline;font-s=
ize:1em"><a class=3D"gmail-selflink" name=3D"section-4" href=3D"https://too=
ls.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#section-4" style=3D"color:b=
lack;text-decoration-line:none">4</a>.  GENEVE extensions</h2></span>

   This document adds some extensions to the [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve" title=3D=
"&quot;Geneve: Generic Network Virtualization Encapsulation&quot;">I-D.ietf=
-nvo3-geneve</a>]
   encapsulation that are relevant to the operation of EVPN.

<span class=3D"gmail-h3" style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em;font-weight:=
bold"><h3 style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em"><a class=3D"gmail-selflink=
" name=3D"section-4.1" href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-=
evpn-geneve-01#section-4.1" style=3D"color:black;text-decoration-line:none"=
>4.1</a>.  Ethernet option TLV</h3></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage=
" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-befor=
e:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">If there is on=
ly 1 extension, then I would say &quot;document adds an extension...&quot;.=
</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:=
0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newp=
age" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-be=
fore:page">pg 4</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.333=
3px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">For GENVE encapsula=
tion we need a bit to for<span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Ari=
al,Helvetica,sans-serif"> this purpose. -&gt;</span></pre><pre class=3D"gma=
il-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;b=
reak-before:page">For Geneve, we need to add a bit for<span style=3D"font-s=
ize:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> this purpose.</span>=
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"></pre></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage"=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before=
:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-=
serif"><br></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.=
3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">pg5</span></pre>=
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-=
family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">&gt;&gt;</span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail=
-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;bre=
ak-before:page">   Where: - Option Class is set to Ethernet (new Option Cla=
ss requested
   to IANA) - Type is set to EVPN-OPTION (new type requested to IANA)
   and C bit must be set.  - B bit is set to 1 for BUM traffic.  - L bit
   is set to 1 for Leaf-Indication.  - Source-ID is a 24-bit value that
   encodes the ESI-label value signaled on the EVPN Autodiscovery per-ES
   routes, as described in [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7432"=
 title=3D"&quot;BGP MPLS-Based Ethernet VPN&quot;">RFC7432</a>] for multi-h=
oming and [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8317" title=3D"&quot;E=
thernet-Tree (E-Tree) Support in Ethernet VPN (EVPN) and Provider Backbone =
Bridging EVPN (PBB-EVPN)&quot;">RFC8317</a>] for
   leaf-to-leaf BUM filtering.  The ESI-label value is encoded in the
   high-order 20 bits of the Source-ESI field.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-new=
page" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-b=
efore:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,=
sans-serif">&gt;&gt;</span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font=
-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">This co=
uld benefit from some formatting.  Very hard to read, as is.</span></pre><p=
re class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;marg=
in-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fa=
mily:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">R bit is not defined.</span></pre><pre cla=
ss=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bot=
tom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:A=
rial,Helvetica,sans-serif">EVPN-OPTION appears to be missing from IANA sect=
ion.</span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;=
margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></pre><pre c=
lass=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-b=
ottom:0px;break-before:page"> &quot;Local- bias&quot; -&gt; &quot;Local-bia=
s </pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-to=
p:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">ESI- labels -&gt; ESI-labels</pr=
e><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">(extra space)</pre><pre class=3D"gmail=
-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;bre=
ak-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvet=
ica,sans-serif"><br></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font=
-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">&gt;&gt=
;</span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;mar=
gin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">   The egress NVEs that ma=
ke use of ESIs in the data path (because they
   have a local multi-homed ES or support [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/rfc8317" title=3D"&quot;Ethernet-Tree (E-Tree) Support in Ethernet V=
PN (EVPN) and Provider Backbone Bridging EVPN (PBB-EVPN)&quot;">RFC8317</a>=
] </pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-to=
p:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif">&gt;&gt;</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font=
-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font f=
ace=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Missing a closing parenthesis.</font><=
/pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0=
px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, san=
s-serif"><br></font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face=3D"=
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">&gt;&gt;&gt;</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-=
newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;brea=
k-before:page">The use of the B bit is only relevant
   to GENEVE packets with Protocol Type 0x6558 (Bridged Ethernet).</pre><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margi=
n-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"=
>&gt;&gt;&gt;</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face=3D"=
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">The entire option is relevant only for bridge=
d ethernet, right?  What should</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" st=
yle=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:pa=
ge"><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">an implementation do if it =
receives a packet where this is in conflict?</font></pre></pre><pre class=
=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-botto=
m:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">pg 6<=
/pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0=
px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"gma=
il-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;b=
reak-before:page">Where, an NVE receiving the above sub-TLV, will send GENE=
VE packets
   to the originator NVE with with only the option TLVs the receiver NVE
   is capable of receiving, and following the same order.</pre><pre class=
=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-botto=
m:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" sty=
le=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:pag=
e">This statement could be made clearer.  I think it&#39;s combining contro=
l </pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-to=
p:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">plane and data plane when descri=
bing originator or receiver.  Also, there</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage"=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before=
:page">are 2 &quot;withs&quot;.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"=
font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><br=
></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" styl=
e=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page=
">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333=
px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">Also the high order =
bit in the type, is the critical bit, MUST be set accordingly.</pre><pre cl=
ass=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bo=
ttom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" =
style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:=
page">Please elaborate on what &quot;set accordingly&quot; means.  Use appr=
opriate reference to Geneve doc if needed.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage=
" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-befor=
e:page"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px=
;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre=
 class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin=
-bottom:0px;break-before:page">In the datapath, NVE2, NVE3 and NVE4
   only encapsulate overlay packets with the Geneve option TLV(s) that
   NVE1 is capable of receiving.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D=
"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&g=
t;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;m=
argin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">to</pre><pre class=3D"gm=
ail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;=
break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"=
font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">In =
the datapath, NVE2, NVE3 and NVE4 may
only encapsulate overlay packets with the Geneve option TLV(s) that
NVE1 is capable of receiving, and in case more than one option TLV is<br></=
pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0p=
x;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">being used, they must be in the orde=
r specified by NVE1.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</=
pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0p=
x;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpag=
e" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-befo=
re:page">sec 7</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333=
px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;</pre><pre c=
lass=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-b=
ottom:0px;break-before:page">Security considerations described in [<a href=
=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7432" title=3D"&quot;BGP MPLS-Based Ethe=
rnet VPN&quot;">RFC7432</a>] and in
   [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#r=
ef-I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-overlay" title=3D"&quot;A Network Virtualization Over=
lay Solution using EVPN&quot;">I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-overlay</a>] are equally =
applicable.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;=
margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;</pre><pre clas=
s=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bott=
om:0px;break-before:page">Also security considerations in the Geneve doc es=
pecially</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;mar=
gin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">since securing options in =
Geneve has been a tricky topic.</pre></pre></pre></pre></div></div></div><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, =
Jul 13, 2020 at 4:46 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR"><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello WG,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This email starts a two weeks Working Group =
Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01 [1].<u></u><u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This poll runs until * the 27<sup=
>th</sup> Of July *.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p><span lang=3D"EN-US">We are=
 also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this Doc=
ument, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR ru=
les (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p><p><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you are listed as an Author or a Contrib=
utor of this Document please respond to this email and indicate whether or =
not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won&#39;t p=
rogress without answers from all the Authors and Contributors.=C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p><p><span lang=3D"EN-US">There is currently no IPR disclos=
ed.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you are not l=
isted as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly respond only if=
 you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance wi=
th IETF rules.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang=3D"EN-US">We ar=
e also polling for any existing implementation as per [2]. <u></u><u></u></=
span></p><p><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US">Thank you,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ste=
phane &amp; Matthew<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US">[1] </span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i=
etf-bess-evpn-geneve/" target=3D"_blank"><span lang=3D"EN-US">https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/</span></a><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[=
2] <a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56=
SEdkjqDpw" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3=
X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div></div>__________=
_____________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
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</blockquote></div>

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From: Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 23:53:02 -0700
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Also, one additional issue which I think the document should address.

Since this document only introduces one dataplane option.  But it requires
that control plane signal options in the order that the receiver would like
to
see them, and the sender must honor that.  How does this work as additional
options get defined?  Does it mean that sending hardware must be built
so it can encapsulate in any order, but receiving hardware can be built in
a vendor specific fashion?  This is perhaps the most concerning issue about
this document for me because it means that every vendor might pick their
favorite order for receiving, and every sender is required to implement all
options.  Further, if a systems vendor has silicon from multiple vendors,
their
own control plane may be forced to operate differently.

On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 11:40 PM Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
wrote:

> I have reviewed the doc and have the following comments.
>
> Anoop
>
> ==
> authors:
> Jorge is listed as working at Juniper but with a Nokia address. :)
>
> Throughout the document:
> Mixed use of GENEVE and Geneve.
> Suggest making it consistent (should be Geneve per the Geneve draft).
> There are also several occurrences of GENVE.  (A typo.)
>
> pg 1, abstract
> >>
>
> EVPN control plane can also be used by a Network Virtualization
>    Endpoints (NVEs) to express Geneve tunnel option TLV(s)supported in
>    transmission and/or reception of Geneve encapsulated data packets.
>
> >>
> to
> >>
>
> EVPN control plane can also be used by Network Virtualization
>    Edges (NVEs) to express Geneve tunnel option TLV(s) supported in
>    the transmission and/or reception of Geneve encapsulated data packets.
>
> >>
> (remove 'a', Endpoints -> Edges, add missing space after TLV(s), add 'the'
> before transmission)
>
> sec 1, pg 2
> >>
>
> The NVO3 working group have been working on
>    different dataplane encapsulations.  The Generic Network
>    Virtualizationi Encapsulation [I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve>] have been
>    recently recommended to be the proposed standard for network
>    virtualization overlay encapsulation.
>
> >>
>
> to
>
> >>
>
> The NVO3 working group has evaluated
>    different dataplane encapsulations.  The Generic Network
>    Virtualization Encapsulation [I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve>] has been
>    recently recommended to be the proposed standard for NVO3
>
>    encapsulation.
>
> >>
>
> (fixed typos and grammar.)
>
>
> control plane determines ->
>
> control plane determine
>
>
> pg 3
>
> Network Virtualization Edge devices (NVEs) ->
>
> Network Virtualization Edges (NVEs)
>
>
> >>
>
>    This EVPN control plane extension will allow a Network Virtualization
>    Edge (NVE) to express what Geneve option TLV types it is capable to
>
>    receive or to send over the Geneve tunnel to its peers.
>
> >>
>
> to
>
> >>
>
>    This EVPN control plane extension will allow an NVE
>
>    to express what Geneve option TLV types it is capable of
>    receiving from, or sending to, over the Geneve tunnel with
>
>    its peers.
>
> >>
>
>
> sec 3 seems to be a mix of abbreviations and terminology.  Would adjust the title to cover both or split in 2 sections, one for each.
>
>
> sec 3, pg 3
>
> NVO3 Network Virtualization Overlays over Layer 3 ->
>
> NVO3: Network Virtualization Overlays over Layer 3.
>
>
> pg 4.
>
> >>>
>
> 4 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#section-4>.  GENEVE extensions
>
>    This document adds some extensions to the [I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve>]
>    encapsulation that are relevant to the operation of EVPN.
> 4.1 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#section-4.1>.  Ethernet option TLV
>
> >>>
>
> If there is only 1 extension, then I would say "document adds an extension...".
>
>
> pg 4
>
> For GENVE encapsulation we need a bit to for this purpose. ->
>
> For Geneve, we need to add a bit for this purpose.
>
>
> pg5
>
> >>
>
>    Where: - Option Class is set to Ethernet (new Option Class requested
>    to IANA) - Type is set to EVPN-OPTION (new type requested to IANA)
>    and C bit must be set.  - B bit is set to 1 for BUM traffic.  - L bit
>    is set to 1 for Leaf-Indication.  - Source-ID is a 24-bit value that
>    encodes the ESI-label value signaled on the EVPN Autodiscovery per-ES
>    routes, as described in [RFC7432 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7432>] for multi-homing and [RFC8317 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8317>] for
>    leaf-to-leaf BUM filtering.  The ESI-label value is encoded in the
>    high-order 20 bits of the Source-ESI field.
>
> >>
>
> This could benefit from some formatting.  Very hard to read, as is.
>
> R bit is not defined.
>
> EVPN-OPTION appears to be missing from IANA section.
>
>
>  "Local- bias" -> "Local-bias
>
> ESI- labels -> ESI-labels
>
> (extra space)
>
>
> >>
>
>    The egress NVEs that make use of ESIs in the data path (because they
>    have a local multi-homed ES or support [RFC8317 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8317>]
>
> >>
>
> Missing a closing parenthesis.
>
>
> >>>
>
> The use of the B bit is only relevant
>    to GENEVE packets with Protocol Type 0x6558 (Bridged Ethernet).
>
> >>>
>
> The entire option is relevant only for bridged ethernet, right?  What should
>
> an implementation do if it receives a packet where this is in conflict?
>
>
> pg 6
>
> >>>
>
> Where, an NVE receiving the above sub-TLV, will send GENEVE packets
>    to the originator NVE with with only the option TLVs the receiver NVE
>    is capable of receiving, and following the same order.
>
> >>>
>
> This statement could be made clearer.  I think it's combining control
>
> plane and data plane when describing originator or receiver.  Also, there
>
> are 2 "withs".
>
>
> >>>
>
> Also the high order bit in the type, is the critical bit, MUST be set accordingly.
>
> >>>
>
> Please elaborate on what "set accordingly" means.  Use appropriate reference to Geneve doc if needed.
>
>
> >>>
>
> In the datapath, NVE2, NVE3 and NVE4
>    only encapsulate overlay packets with the Geneve option TLV(s) that
>    NVE1 is capable of receiving.
>
> >>>
>
> to
>
> >>>
>
> In the datapath, NVE2, NVE3 and NVE4 may
> only encapsulate overlay packets with the Geneve option TLV(s) that
> NVE1 is capable of receiving, and in case more than one option TLV is
>
> being used, they must be in the order specified by NVE1.
>
> >>>
>
>
> sec 7
>
> >>
>
> Security considerations described in [RFC7432 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7432>] and in
>    [I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-overlay <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-overlay>] are equally applicable.
>
> >>
>
> Also security considerations in the Geneve doc especially
>
> since securing options in Geneve has been a tricky topic.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:46 AM <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello WG,
>>
>>
>>
>> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on
>> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01 [1].
>>
>>
>>
>> This poll runs until * the 27th Of July *.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to
>> this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with
>> IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>>
>> If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please
>> respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
>> relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from
>> all the Authors and Contributors.
>>
>> There is currently no IPR disclosed.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please
>> explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been
>> disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Stephane & Matthew
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/
>>
>> [2]
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BESS mailing list
>> BESS@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Also, one additional issue which I think the document shou=
ld address.<div><br></div><div>Since this document only introduces one data=
plane option.=C2=A0 But it requires=C2=A0</div><div>that control plane sign=
al options in the order that the receiver would like to</div><div>see them,=
 and the sender must honor that.=C2=A0 How does this work as additional</di=
v><div>options get defined?=C2=A0 Does it mean that sending hardware must b=
e built</div><div>so it can encapsulate in any order, but receiving hardwar=
e can be built in</div><div>a vendor specific fashion?=C2=A0 This is perhap=
s the most concerning issue about</div><div>this document for me because it=
 means that every vendor might pick their</div><div>favorite order for rece=
iving, and every sender is required to implement all</div><div>options.=C2=
=A0 Further, if a systems vendor has silicon from multiple=C2=A0vendors, th=
eir</div><div>own control plane may be forced to operate differently.</div>=
</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">=
On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 11:40 PM Anoop Ghanwani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:anoop=
@alumni.duke.edu">anoop@alumni.duke.edu</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I have reviewe=
d the doc and have the following comments.</div><div><br></div><div>Anoop</=
div><div><br></div><div>=3D=3D</div><div><div>authors:</div><div>Jorge is l=
isted as working at Juniper but with a Nokia address. :)</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Throughout the document:</div><div>Mixed use of GENEVE and Geneve.</=
div><div>Suggest making it consistent (should be Geneve per the Geneve draf=
t).</div><div>There are also several occurrences=C2=A0of GENVE.=C2=A0 (A ty=
po.)</div><br><div>pg 1, abstract</div><div>&gt;&gt;</div><div><pre style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">=
EVPN control plane can also be used by a Network Virtualization
   Endpoints (NVEs) to express Geneve tunnel option TLV(s)supported in
   transmission and/or reception of Geneve encapsulated data packets.</pre>=
</div><div>&gt;&gt;</div><div>to </div><div>&gt;&gt;</div><div><pre style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">=
EVPN control plane can also be used by Network Virtualization
   Edges (NVEs) to express Geneve tunnel option TLV(s) supported in
   the transmission and/or reception of Geneve encapsulated data packets.</=
pre></div><div>&gt;&gt;</div><div>(remove &#39;a&#39;, Endpoints -&gt; Edge=
s, add missing space after TLV(s), add &#39;the&#39; before transmission)<b=
r></div><div><br>sec 1, pg 2</div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font=
-size:13.3333px">&gt;&gt;</span></div><div><pre style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);f=
ont-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">The =
NVO3 working group have been working on
   different dataplane encapsulations.  The Generic Network
   Virtualizationi Encapsulation [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve" title=3D"&quot;Genev=
e: Generic Network Virtualization Encapsulation&quot;" target=3D"_blank">I-=
D.ietf-nvo3-geneve</a>] have been
   recently recommended to be the proposed standard for network
   virtualization overlay encapsulation.</pre><pre style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0=
);font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&=
gt;&gt;</pre>to</div><div><pre style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><=
pre style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bot=
tom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;</pre><pre style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);fon=
t-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">The NV=
O3 working group has evaluated
   different dataplane encapsulations.  The Generic Network
   Virtualization Encapsulation [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra=
ft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve" title=3D"&quot;Geneve=
: Generic Network Virtualization Encapsulation&quot;" target=3D"_blank">I-D=
.ietf-nvo3-geneve</a>] has been
   recently recommended to be the proposed standard for NVO3</pre><pre styl=
e=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;=
break-before:page">   encapsulation.<br></pre><pre style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0=
);font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&=
gt;&gt;</pre><pre style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:=
0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;=
margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"></pre>(fixed typos and =
grammar.)<br><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom=
:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-=
top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">control plane determines -&gt;=
</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;br=
eak-before:page">control plane determine</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.33=
33px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre sty=
le=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:pag=
e">pg 3</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom=
:0px;break-before:page">Network Virtualization Edge devices (NVEs) -&gt;</p=
re></pre><pre style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;marg=
in-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13=
.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Network Virtualization Edge=
s (NVEs)</span><br></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;m=
argin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.33=
33px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">&gt;&gt;</span></p=
re><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break=
-before:page">   This EVPN control plane extension will allow a Network Vir=
tualization
   Edge (NVE) to express what Geneve option TLV types it is capable to
</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;br=
eak-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helve=
tica,sans-serif">   receive or to send over the Geneve tunnel to its peers.=
</span> </pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-botto=
m:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;ma=
rgin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">to</pre><pre style=3D"fon=
t-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&g=
t;</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;=
break-before:page">   This EVPN control plane extension will allow an NVE</=
pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;brea=
k-before:page">   to express what Geneve option TLV types it is capable of
   receiving from, or sending to, over the Geneve tunnel with</pre><pre sty=
le=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:pag=
e">   its peers.</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;marg=
in-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3=
333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></pre>=
<pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-be=
fore:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,s=
ans-serif">sec 3 seems to be a mix of abbreviations and terminology.  Would=
 adjust the title to cover both or split in 2 sections, one for each.</span=
></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;b=
reak-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helv=
etica,sans-serif"><br></span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin=
-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3=
333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">sec 3, pg 3</span></pre><pre =
style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:=
page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-s=
erif">NVO3 Network Virtualization Overlays over Layer 3 -&gt;</span><br></p=
re><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break=
-before:page"><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-botto=
m:0px;break-before:page">NVO3: Network Virtualization Overlays over Layer 3=
.
</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;br=
eak-before:page"><br></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px=
;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">pg 4.</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13=
.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</p=
re><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break=
-before:page"><span style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em;font-weight:bold"=
><h2 style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em"><a name=3D"m_523063257727911066=
6_section-4" href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-genev=
e-01#section-4" style=3D"color:black;text-decoration-line:none" target=3D"_=
blank">4</a>.  GENEVE extensions</h2></span>

   This document adds some extensions to the [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#ref-I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve" title=3D=
"&quot;Geneve: Generic Network Virtualization Encapsulation&quot;" target=
=3D"_blank">I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve</a>]
   encapsulation that are relevant to the operation of EVPN.

<span style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em;font-weight:bold"><h3 style=3D"=
display:inline;font-size:1em"><a name=3D"m_5230632577279110666_section-4.1"=
 href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#section=
-4.1" style=3D"color:black;text-decoration-line:none" target=3D"_blank">4.1=
</a>.  Ethernet option TLV</h3></span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333=
px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><p=
re style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-befo=
re:page">If there is only 1 extension, then I would say &quot;document adds=
 an extension...&quot;.</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0=
px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">pg 4</pre><pre=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before=
:page">For GENVE encapsulation we need a bit to for<span style=3D"font-size=
:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> this purpose. -&gt;</sp=
an></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px=
;break-before:page">For Geneve, we need to add a bit for<span style=3D"font=
-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> this purpose.</spa=
n><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-=
before:page"></pre></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;m=
argin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font=
-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></pre><pre style=3D"font-siz=
e:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">pg5</span><=
/pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;bre=
ak-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvet=
ica,sans-serif">&gt;&gt;</span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;marg=
in-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">   Where: - Option Class is=
 set to Ethernet (new Option Class requested
   to IANA) - Type is set to EVPN-OPTION (new type requested to IANA)
   and C bit must be set.  - B bit is set to 1 for BUM traffic.  - L bit
   is set to 1 for Leaf-Indication.  - Source-ID is a 24-bit value that
   encodes the ESI-label value signaled on the EVPN Autodiscovery per-ES
   routes, as described in [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7432"=
 title=3D"&quot;BGP MPLS-Based Ethernet VPN&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC743=
2</a>] for multi-homing and [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8317=
" title=3D"&quot;Ethernet-Tree (E-Tree) Support in Ethernet VPN (EVPN) and =
Provider Backbone Bridging EVPN (PBB-EVPN)&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC8317=
</a>] for
   leaf-to-leaf BUM filtering.  The ESI-label value is encoded in the
   high-order 20 bits of the Source-ESI field.</pre><pre style=3D"font-size=
:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">&gt;&gt;</s=
pan></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0p=
x;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,H=
elvetica,sans-serif">This could benefit from some formatting.  Very hard to=
 read, as is.</span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;fon=
t-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">R bit is not defined.</span></pre><pre=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before=
:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-=
serif">EVPN-OPTION appears to be missing from IANA section.</span></pre><pr=
e style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-befor=
e:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans=
-serif"><br></span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;m=
argin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"> &quot;Local- bias&quot; -&gt; &quot;Lo=
cal-bias </pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bott=
om:0px;break-before:page">ESI- labels -&gt; ESI-labels</pre><pre style=3D"f=
ont-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">(ext=
ra space)</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bott=
om:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Ar=
ial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333p=
x;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:13.3333px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">&gt;&gt;</span></pre>=
<pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-be=
fore:page">   The egress NVEs that make use of ESIs in the data path (becau=
se they
   have a local multi-homed ES or support [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/rfc8317" title=3D"&quot;Ethernet-Tree (E-Tree) Support in Ethernet V=
PN (EVPN) and Provider Backbone Bridging EVPN (PBB-EVPN)&quot;" target=3D"_=
blank">RFC8317</a>] </pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-s=
erif">&gt;&gt;</font></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px=
;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-=
serif">Missing a closing parenthesis.</font></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face=3D"=
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3=
333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face=3D"Ari=
al, Helvetica, sans-serif">&gt;&gt;&gt;</font></pre><pre style=3D"font-size=
:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">The use of t=
he B bit is only relevant
   to GENEVE packets with Protocol Type 0x6558 (Bridged Ethernet).</pre><pr=
e style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-befor=
e:page"><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">&gt;&gt;&gt;</font></pr=
e><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-=
before:page"><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">The entire option =
is relevant only for bridged ethernet, right?  What should</font></pre><pre=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before=
:page"><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">an implementation do if =
it receives a packet where this is in conflict?</font></pre></pre><pre styl=
e=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page=
"><br></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:=
0px;break-before:page">pg 6</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-t=
op:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre style=3D=
"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">Wh=
ere, an NVE receiving the above sub-TLV, will send GENEVE packets
   to the originator NVE with with only the option TLVs the receiver NVE
   is capable of receiving, and following the same order.</pre><pre style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"=
>&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-=
bottom:0px;break-before:page">This statement could be made clearer.  I thin=
k it&#39;s combining control </pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin=
-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">plane and data plane when des=
cribing originator or receiver.  Also, there</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">are 2 &quot;wi=
ths&quot;.</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bot=
tom:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;marg=
in-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><pre style=3D"font-size:13.=
3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pr=
e><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-=
before:page">Also the high order bit in the type, is the critical bit, MUST=
 be set accordingly.</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre style=3D"font-s=
ize:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">Please el=
aborate on what &quot;set accordingly&quot; means.  Use appropriate referen=
ce to Geneve doc if needed.</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-t=
op:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre style=3D"font-si=
ze:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&g=
t;</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;=
break-before:page">In the datapath, NVE2, NVE3 and NVE4
   only encapsulate overlay packets with the Geneve option TLV(s) that
   NVE1 is capable of receiving.</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;mar=
gin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre sty=
le=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:pag=
e">to</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0=
px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;m=
argin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">In the datapath, NVE2, N=
VE3 and NVE4 may
only encapsulate overlay packets with the Geneve option TLV(s) that
NVE1 is capable of receiving, and in case more than one option TLV is<br></=
pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;brea=
k-before:page">being used, they must be in the order specified by NVE1.</pr=
e><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-=
before:page">&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre style=3D"font-size=
:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">sec 7</pre><=
pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-bef=
ore:page">&gt;&gt;</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;ma=
rgin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">Security considerations described in [<a=
 href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7432" title=3D"&quot;BGP MPLS-Based=
 Ethernet VPN&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC7432</a>] and in
   [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01#r=
ef-I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-overlay" title=3D"&quot;A Network Virtualization Over=
lay Solution using EVPN&quot;" target=3D"_blank">I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-overlay=
</a>] are equally applicable.</pre><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin=
-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">&gt;&gt;</pre><pre style=3D"f=
ont-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">Also=
 security considerations in the Geneve doc especially</pre><pre style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page">since=
 securing options in Geneve has been a tricky topic.</pre></pre></pre></pre=
></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:46 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows=
.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR">=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello WG,<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This email starts a two=
 weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve-01 [1].<u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This poll =
runs until * the 27<sup>th</sup> Of July *.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US">We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR t=
hat applies to this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in comp=
liance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more det=
ails).<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you are listed as=
 an Author or a Contributor of this Document please respond to this email a=
nd indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR. T=
he Document won&#39;t progress without answers from all the Authors and Con=
tributors.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang=3D"EN-US">There is c=
urrently no IPR disclosed.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-left:=
72pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang=3D"=
EN-US">If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please exp=
licitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disc=
losed in conformance with IETF rules.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"m=
argin-left:72pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US">We are also polling for any existing implementation as pe=
r [2]. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p><p><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><=
span lang=3D"EN-US">Stephane &amp; Matthew<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[1] </span><a href=3D"https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/" target=3D"_blank"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-geneve/</s=
pan></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[2] <a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg=
/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ie=
tf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><u></u><u></u></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000000ad3c105aac5d8b2--


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From: "David Carrel (carrel)" <carrel@cisco.com>
To: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] WG adoption and IPR poll for draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-07
Thread-Index: AdZJV6xbIA5I4OJ8QneA/Wu9XJmpKQXntAUA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 20:38:03 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG adoption and IPR poll for draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-07
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All

I have updated the draft  "IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop Use Cases"  adding
Mankamana Mishra as co-author of the draft.  Mankamana representing Cisco
after reviewing the draft internally agrees that this solution has major
consequences and will be very valuable to all operators worldwide both
service providers & enterprises.

I will be presenting this draft on Tuesdays BESS WG IETF 108.

Kind Regards

Gyan

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mishra, Gyan S <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>
Date: Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:13 AM
Subject: Fwd: [E] New Version Notification for
draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-02.txt
To: Hayabusanew <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>




---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:12 AM
Subject: [E] New Version Notification for
draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-02.txt
To: Mankamana Mishra <mankamis@cisco.com>, Gyan S. Mishra <
gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-02.txt
has been successfully submitted by Gyan MIshra and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases
Revision:       02
Title:          IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop Use Cases
Document date:  2020-07-25
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          16
URL:
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Abstract:
   As Enterprises and Service Providers upgrade their brown field or
   green field MPLS/SR core to an IPv6 transport such as MPLS LDPv6, SR-
   MPLSv6 or SRv6, Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP)now plays an important role
   in the transition of the core from IPv4 to IPv6 being able to
   continue to support legacy IPv4, VPN-IPv4, and Multicast VPN IPv4
   customers.

   Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP) specifies that the set of usable next-hop
   address families is determined by the Address Family Identifier (AFI)
   and the Subsequent Address Family Identifier (SAFI).  Historically
   the AFI/SAFI definitions for the IPv4 address family only have
   provisions for advertising a Next Hop address that belongs to the
   IPv4 protocol when advertising IPv4 or VPN-IPv4 Network Layer
   Reachability Information (NLRI).  [RFC5549] specifies the extensions
   necessary to allow advertising IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI with a Next
   Hop address that belongs to the IPv6 protocol.  This comprises an
   extension of the AFI/SAFI definitions to allow the address of the
   Next Hop for IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI to also belong to the IPv6
   Protocol.  [RFC5549] defines the encoding of the Next Hop to
   determine which of the protocols the address actually belongs to, and
   a new BGP Capability allowing MP-BGP Peers to dynamically discover
   whether they can exchange IPv4 NLRI and VPN-IPv4 NLRI with an IPv6
   Next Hop.

   With this new MP-BGP capability exchange allows the BGP peering
   session to act as a pure transport to allow the session to carry
   Address Family Identifier (AFI) and the Subsequent Address Family
   Identifier (SAFI) for both IPv4 and IPv6.

   This document describes the critical use case and OPEX savings of
   being able to leverage the MP-BGP capability exchange usage as a pure
   transport allowing both IPv4 and IPv6 to be carried over the same BGP
   TCP session.  By doing so, allows for the elimination of Dual
   Stacking on the PE-CE connections making the peering IPv6-ONLY to now
   carry both IPv4 and IPv6 Network Layer Reachability Information
   (NLRI).  This document also provides a possible solution for IXPs
   (Internet Exchange points) that are facing IPv4 address depletion at
   these peering points to use BGP-MP capability exchange defined in
   [RFC5549] to carry IPv4 (Network Layer Reachability Information) NLRI
   in an IPv6 next hop using the [RFC5565] softwire mesh framework.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat




--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect & SME*


*Data Center Planning | Common Core | Development & Engineering Lab
ServicesGlobal Technology Services | ITNUC*




*O 240 970-6287M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike Rm 304-D*Silver Spring, MD
20904


*IETF  & ISOC Member since 2015*

https://www.ietf.org/

https://www.internetsociety.org/




--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--00000000000065ea1a05ab52321c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">All<div><br></div><div>I have updated the draft=C2=A0 &quo=
t;IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop Use Cases&quot;=C2=A0 adding Mankamana Mishr=
a as co-author of the draft.=C2=A0 Mankamana representing Cisco after revie=
wing the draft internally agrees that this solution has major consequences =
and will be very valuable to all operators worldwide both service providers=
 &amp; enterprises.</div><div><br></div><div>I will be presenting this draf=
t on Tuesdays BESS WG IETF 108.</div><div><br></div><div>Kind Regards</div>=
<div><br></div><div>Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>Fro=
m: <strong class=3D"gmail_sendername" dir=3D"auto">Mishra, Gyan S</strong> =
<span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com">gyan.s.=
mishra@verizon.com</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:13 AM<br>=
Subject: Fwd: [E] New Version Notification for draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-i=
pv6nh-use-cases-02.txt<br>To: Hayabusanew &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm=
@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">--------=
-- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org<=
/a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:12 AM<br>Subject: [E] New Ve=
rsion Notification for draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-02.txt<b=
r>To: Mankamana Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mankamis@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">mankamis@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Gyan S. Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gy=
an.s.mishra@verizon.com" target=3D"_blank">gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com</a>&gt=
;<br></div><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-02.txt<br=
>
has been successfully submitted by Gyan MIshra and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ip=
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Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A002<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop Use C=
ases<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-07-25<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 16<br>
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_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.=
ietf.org_doc_html_draft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6nh-2Duse-2Dcases&a=
mp;d=3DDwICaQ&amp;c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&amp;r=3DD=
nUkF34wu4mqq0UY8nn2rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&amp;m=3DfVUlStjtfsOBVqPy2hxxa_Vi=
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;e=3D</a> <br>
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rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&amp;m=3DfVUlStjtfsOBVqPy2hxxa_ViZ0q_9XphquMY8W-rV4E=
&amp;s=3DXDSdCVQsPjDmVxQ4e1Y9m59-poPXL_CuJk3OIRaa2n8&amp;e=3D" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps=
-3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdiff-3Furl2-3Ddraft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6n=
h-2Duse-2Dcases-2D02&amp;d=3DDwICaQ&amp;c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRx=
pb6__0PomBTQ&amp;r=3DDnUkF34wu4mqq0UY8nn2rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&amp;m=3DfV=
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oPXL_CuJk3OIRaa2n8&amp;e=3D</a> <br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0As Enterprises and Service Providers upgrade their brown field=
 or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0green field MPLS/SR core to an IPv6 transport such as MPLS LDP=
v6, SR-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MPLSv6 or SRv6, Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP)now plays an importa=
nt role<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the transition of the core from IPv4 to IPv6 being able to<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0continue to support legacy IPv4, VPN-IPv4, and Multicast VPN I=
Pv4<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0customers.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP) specifies that the set of usable ne=
xt-hop<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0address families is determined by the Address Family Identifie=
r (AFI)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and the Subsequent Address Family Identifier (SAFI).=C2=A0 His=
torically<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the AFI/SAFI definitions for the IPv4 address family only have=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0provisions for advertising a Next Hop address that belongs to =
the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv4 protocol when advertising IPv4 or VPN-IPv4 Network Layer<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Reachability Information (NLRI).=C2=A0 [RFC5549] specifies the=
 extensions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0necessary to allow advertising IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI with=
 a Next<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Hop address that belongs to the IPv6 protocol.=C2=A0 This comp=
rises an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0extension of the AFI/SAFI definitions to allow the address of =
the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Next Hop for IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI to also belong to the =
IPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Protocol.=C2=A0 [RFC5549] defines the encoding of the Next Hop=
 to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0determine which of the protocols the address actually belongs =
to, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a new BGP Capability allowing MP-BGP Peers to dynamically disc=
over<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0whether they can exchange IPv4 NLRI and VPN-IPv4 NLRI with an =
IPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Next Hop.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0With this new MP-BGP capability exchange allows the BGP peerin=
g<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0session to act as a pure transport to allow the session to car=
ry<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Address Family Identifier (AFI) and the Subsequent Address Fam=
ily<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Identifier (SAFI) for both IPv4 and IPv6.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes the critical use case and OPEX savings=
 of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0being able to leverage the MP-BGP capability exchange usage as=
 a pure<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0transport allowing both IPv4 and IPv6 to be carried over the s=
ame BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0TCP session.=C2=A0 By doing so, allows for the elimination of =
Dual<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Stacking on the PE-CE connections making the peering IPv6-ONLY=
 to now<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0carry both IPv4 and IPv6 Network Layer Reachability Informatio=
n<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(NLRI).=C2=A0 This document also provides a possible solution =
for IXPs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Internet Exchange points) that are facing IPv4 address deplet=
ion at<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0these peering points to use BGP-MP capability exchange defined=
 in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5549] to carry IPv4 (Network Layer Reachability Informatio=
n) NLRI<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in an IPv6 next hop using the [RFC5565] softwire mesh framewor=
k.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
</div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartma=
il=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><p><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85=
,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=
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t-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-ser=
if;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"margin:0=
px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;fon=
t-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=
=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect &amp; SME</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-si=
ze:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, s=
erif">Data Center Planning | Common Core | Development &amp; Engineering La=
b Services<br>Global Technology Services | ITNUC</font></i></p><p style=3D"=
font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"geo=
rgia, serif">O 240 970-6287<br>M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike Rm 304=
-D<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD 20904</p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margi=
n:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margi=
n:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font =
face=3D"georgia, serif" color=3D"#0000ff">IETF=C2=A0 &amp; ISOC Member sinc=
e 2015</font></i></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px"=
><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#000000=
">h</font><font color=3D"#0000ff">ttps://www.ietf.org/</font></a></p><p sty=
le=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px"><a href=3D"https://www.int=
ernetsociety.org/" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#0000ff">https://www.in=
ternetsociety.org/</font></a><br></p><p><i style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-s=
ize:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif"><br></font></i></p></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gma=
il_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://=
www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:=
inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/Ver=
izonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px=
;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&=
quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b=
>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:=
13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>=
Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, seri=
f"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;lin=
e-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<=
br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div>=
<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding@ietf.org>, "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, Zhaohui Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-09: (with COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHWW3ZwaqYXeUHbL06Kdlm3E5o4b6kaQvGA
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Subject: Re: [bess] Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-09: (with COMMENT)
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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: Murray Kucherawy <superuser@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding@ietf.org>, "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, Zhaohui Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-09: (with COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHWWaKc6/xb88EtDEKHs1Tbrvi99akaWxQA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 02:58:49 +0000
Message-ID: <21D9D46F-BA0F-4E51-80DA-CE543B940642@cisco.com>
References: <159470579470.10255.3900435915456888458@ietfa.amsl.com>
In-Reply-To: <159470579470.10255.3900435915456888458@ietfa.amsl.com>
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Subject: Re: [bess] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-09: (with COMMENT)
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From: <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
To: <bess@ietf.org>, <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org>
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Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:16:18 +0200
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Subject: Re: [bess] WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping
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Authors,

 

Please address the comments received during the WGLC (especially regarding
IANA section).

 

We haven't heard about any implementation during the WGLC.

 

We will have to ask if WG agrees to proceed without implementation as per
our policy.

 

 

Brgds,

 

Stephane

 

From: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com> 
Sent: vendredi 3 juillet 2020 15:29
To: bess@ietf.org; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org
Cc: bess-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: WGLC, IPR and implementation poll for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping

 

Hello WG,

 

This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping-02 [1].

 

This poll runs until * the 20th Of July *.

 

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to
this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please
respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from
all the Authors and Contributors. 

There is currently no IPR disclosed.

 

If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly
respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in
conformance with IETF rules.

 

We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2]. 

 

Thank you,

Stephane & Matthew

 

[1]  <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping/

[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw

 


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class=3DMsoNormal>Authors,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Please address the comments received during the WGLC =
(especially regarding IANA section).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>We haven&#8217;t heard about any =
implementation during the WGLC.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>We will have to ask if WG agrees to =
proceed without implementation as per our =
policy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Brgds,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Stephane<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:FR'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:FR'> slitkows.ietf@gmail.com =
&lt;slitkows.ietf@gmail.com&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> vendredi 3 juillet 2020 =
15:29<br><b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
bess-chairs@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> WGLC, IPR and implementation =
poll for =
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hello WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on =
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping-02 [1].<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>This poll runs until * the =
20<sup>th</sup> Of July *.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>We are also polling for knowledge of any =
undisclosed IPR that applies to this Document, to ensure that IPR has =
been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, =
3669 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of =
this Document please respond to this email and indicate whether or not =
you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't =
progress without answers from all the Authors and =
Contributors.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>There is currently no IPR =
disclosed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>If you are not listed as an Author or a =
Contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any =
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF =
rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>We are also polling for any existing implementation =
as per [2]. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>Stephane &amp; Matthew<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>[1] </span><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-ping/">=
<span =
lang=3DEN-US>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-lsp-pi=
ng/</span></a><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>[2] <a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdk=
jqDpw" =
target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vP=
C4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0180_01D66418.1E0D9E50--


From nobody Mon Jul 27 06:12:40 2020
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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-na-flags-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Propagation of ARP/ND Flags in EVPN
        Authors         : Jorge Rabadan
                          Senthil Sathappan
                          Kiran Nagaraj
                          Wen Lin
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-na-flags-05.txt
	Pages           : 10
	Date            : 2020-07-27

Abstract:
   An EVPN MAC/IP Advertisement route can optionally carry an IPv4 or
   IPv6 addresses associated with a MAC address.  Remote PEs can use
   this information to populate their ARP/ND tables on IRB interfaces or
   their proxy-ARP/ND tables in Broadcast Domains (BD).  PEs can then
   reply locally (act as an ARP/ND proxy) to IPv4 ARP requests and IPv6
   Neighbor Solicitation messages and reduce/suppress the flooding
   produced by the Address Resolution procedure.  However, the
   information conveyed in the MAC/IP route may not be enough for the
   remote PE to reply to local ARP or ND requests.  For example, if a PE
   learns an IPv6->MAC ND entry via EVPN, the PE would not know if that
   particular IPv6->MAC pair belongs to a host, a router or a host with
   an anycast address, as this information is not carried in the EVPN
   MAC/IP Advertisement routes.  Similarly, other information relevant
   to the IP->MAC ARP/ND entries may be needed.  This document defines
   an Extended Community that is advertised along with an EVPN MAC/IP
   Advertisement route and carries information relevant to the ARP/ND
   resolution, so that an EVPN PE implementing a proxy-ARP/ND function
   can reply to ARP Requests or Neighbor Solicitations with the correct
   information.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-na-flags/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-na-flags-05
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-na-flags-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-evpn-na-flags-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From nobody Mon Jul 27 18:27:48 2020
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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Weighted Multi-Path Procedures for EVPN All-Active Multi-Homing
        Authors         : Neeraj Malhotra
                          Ali Sajassi
                          Jorge Rabadan
                          John Drake
                          Avinash Lingala
                          Samir Thoria
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-06.txt
	Pages           : 18
	Date            : 2020-07-27

Abstract:
   In an EVPN-IRB based network overlay, EVPN all-active multi-homing
   enables multi-homing for a CE device connected to two or more PEs via
   a LAG, such that bridged and routed traffic from remote PEs can be
   equally load balanced (ECMPed) across the multi-homing PEs.  This
   document defines extensions to EVPN procedures to optimally handle
   unequal access bandwidth distribution across a set of multi-homing
   PEs in order to:

   o  provide greater flexibility, with respect to adding or removing
      individual PE-CE links within the access LAG.

   o  handle PE-CE LAG member link failures that can result in unequal
      PE-CE access bandwidth across a set of multi-homing PEs.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
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A diff from the previous version is available at:
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From nobody Tue Jul 28 05:01:32 2020
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Subject: [bess] Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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Hi,

As Linda noted in her agenda slot today, =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage version 08 introduced a new paragraph =
in the Introduction that says:

    - The Application Routing can also be based on specific
       performance criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter)
       to provide better application performance by choosing the right
       underlay that meets or exceeds the specified criteria.

Firstly, s/loos/loss/ =F0=9F=98=8A

But I am concerned by the concept of "application routing" and I note =
that the term is not used elsewhere in the document nor is the concept =
expanded upon.

As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the =
concept of traffic flows being routed according to the identity of the =
application is made complicated by various privacy and security =
concerns, not to mention issues of registering application identities.

Fortunately, I suspect that this draft wants to do something similar to =
APN: that is, to classify the service that a particular =
application-sourced flow wants to receive from the network. This may be =
considerably more complex than DSCP, but the concept is the same that =
either a tunnel/pipe/flow is negotiated and established for use by the =
application, or the packets are 'coloured' for routing and treatment in =
the network.

I would suggest two things:
1. Be a lot more clear about what is meant by "application routing" =
possibly even using a different term
2. Have a look at the APN work - side meeting on Thursday; see =
https://github.com/APN-Community/IETF108-Side-Meeting-APN for all the =
details

Best,
Adrian


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Subject: [bess] Why are you specifying two new tunnel types for encapsulation for EVPN?
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Ali: 


>From draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn: 


 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#section-6> 6
BGP Encoding

    This document defines two new Tunnel Types along with its associated
   sub-TLVs for The Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute [TUNNEL-ENCAP
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#ref-TUNNEL-EN
CAP> ]. These
   tunnel types correspond to ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP-Transport as
   described in section 4
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#section-4> .
The following sub-TLVs apply to both tunnel
   types unless stated otherwise.

 

 

1.  Why are you specifying 2 new tunnel types?  What makes these special? 

 

What in the use of the tunnel encapsulation draft 

does not support for the inner and outer tunnel requires 

you to specify a ESP-Transport and  ESP-in-UDP-Transport? 

 

[see section 5.1 of your draft] 

 

2.  What IPSEC security information is unique to the EVPN solution that is
not general? 

 

Section 4 of  draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03.txt 

describes the IPSEC DIM and security policies on in the following case:

 

a) you need to send IPSEC information - via RR mesh 

b) you have policies that you want to use  the
[draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt]

c) you want on demand re-keying 

d) "policy" - undefined

on #a) there are multiple BGP IPsec proposal using the RR mesh 

on #b) can you tell me what is unique about
[draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt] 

on #c) isn't on-demand re-keying a desire to prevent DDOS that is a good
feature for all IPsec? 

On #d) policy is normal for all IPsec 

 

Thank you, Sue


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><h2><a name=3Dsection-6><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black;font-weight:normal'>Ali: =
<o:p></o:p></span></a></h2><h2><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black;font-weight:normal'>From =
draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn: <o:p></o:p></span></h2><h2><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#sec=
tion-6"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black;font-weight:normal'>6</span></a><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black;font-weight:normal'> BGP =
Encoding<o:p></o:p></span></h2><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;This document defines two =
new Tunnel Types along with its =
associated<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; sub-TLVs for The Tunnel =
Encapsulation Attribute [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#ref=
-TUNNEL-ENCAP" title=3D"&quot;The BGP Tunnel Encapsulation =
Attribute&quot;">TUNNEL-ENCAP</a>]. =
These<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; tunnel types correspond to =
ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP-Transport =
as<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; described in <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#sec=
tion-4">section 4</a>. The following sub-TLVs apply to both =
tunnel<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; types unless stated =
otherwise.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>1. =
&nbsp;Why are you specifying 2 new tunnel types? &nbsp;What makes these =
special? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>What in =
the use of the tunnel encapsulation draft <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>does not support for the inner and outer tunnel requires =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>you to =
specify a ESP-Transport and &nbsp;ESP-in-UDP-Transport? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>[see =
section 5.1 of your draft] <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>2.&nbsp; What IPSEC security information is unique to =
the EVPN solution that is not general? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Section =
4 of &nbsp;draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03.txt =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>describes the IPSEC DIM and security policies on in the =
following case:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>a) you =
need to send IPSEC information &#8211; via RR mesh =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>b) you =
have policies that you want to use &nbsp;the =
[draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>c) you want on demand re-keying <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>d) &#8220;policy&#8221; &#8211; =
undefined<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>on #a) =
there are multiple BGP IPsec proposal using the RR mesh =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>on #b) =
can you tell me what is unique about =
[draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt] <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>on #c) isn&#8217;t on-demand re-keying a desire to =
prevent DDOS that is a good feature for all IPsec? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>On #d) =
policy is normal for all IPsec <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Thank =
you, Sue<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions about the  ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP transport in SECURE-EVPN
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Subject: [bess] Questions about the ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP transport in SECURE-EVPN
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Ali,

Just follow up with my question in the BESS WG session.
Your draft introduced two Tunnel Types in 5.1: ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP=
 Transport as below.


When standard IP Encapsulating Security Payload (ESP) is used
(without outer UDP header) for encryption of NVO packets, it is used
in transport mode as depicted below. When such encapsulation is used,
for BGP signaling, the Tunnel Type of Tunnel Encapsulation TLV is set
to ESP-Transport and the Tunnel Type of Encapsulation Extended
Community is set to NVO encapsulation type (e.g., VxLAN, GENEVE, GPE,
etc.). This implies that the customer packets are first encapsulated
using NVO encapsulation type and then it is further encapsulated &
encrypted using ESP-Transport mode.

Question 1:  Are you assuming that  using IPsec Transport mode? Instead of =
IPsec Tunnel mode?

Question 2: Your Figure 3 has two encodings, which one is "ESP-Transport", =
which one is "ESP-in-UDP"?

Question 3: The NVO encapsulation (VxLAN, GENEVE, GRE) can also be inside t=
he IPsec ESP tunnel. In that case, which type is used?

Thanks, Linda


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ali, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Just follow up with my question in the BESS WG sessi=
on. <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Your draft introduced two Tunnel Types in 5.1: ESP-T=
ransport and ESP-in-UDP Transport as below.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier">When standard IP Encapsulat=
ing Security Payload (ESP) is used<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier">(without outer UDP header) =
for encryption of NVO packets, it is used<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier">in transport mode as depict=
ed below. When such encapsulation is used,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier">for BGP signaling, the Tunn=
el Type of Tunnel Encapsulation TLV is set<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier">to ESP-Transport and the Tu=
nnel Type of Encapsulation Extended<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier">Community is set to NVO enc=
apsulation type (e.g., VxLAN, GENEVE, GPE,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier">etc.). This implies that th=
e customer packets are first encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier">using NVO encapsulation typ=
e and then it is further encapsulated &amp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Courier">encrypted using ESP-Transport mode.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Question 1: &nbsp;Are you assuming that &nbsp;using =
IPsec Transport mode? Instead of IPsec Tunnel mode?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Question 2: Your Figure 3 has two encodings, which o=
ne is &#8220;ESP-Transport&#8221;, which one is &#8220;ESP-in-UDP&#8221;?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Question 3: The NVO encapsulation (VxLAN, GENEVE, GR=
E) can also be inside the IPsec ESP tunnel. In that case, which type is use=
d?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks, Linda<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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Reply-To: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Najem, Basil'" <basil.najem@bell.ca>, <bess@ietf.org>
Cc: <draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
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Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 13:50:40 +0100
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/lCmxVOHGc68h9B4JikPlO50duQg>
Subject: Re: [bess] Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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Thanks for engaging.

I'm going to be picky!

The application is not routed. It sits there running on a host. I think =
it is the application's traffic that is routed, and I am assuming you =
mean specific traffic flows to/from an application because a single =
application may have:
- flows to/from multiple destinations
- multiple flows to/from a single destination
And each of these flows may request different performance criteria.

So, maybe...

A traffic flow for an application can be routed based on specific =
performance criteria (e.g., packets delay, packet lose, jitter) to =
provide a better user experience by choosing tunnels over an underlay =
network that meet or exceed the specified performance criteria threshold =
for that traffic flow.

I am still slightly worried about the term "routed" in this context. =
Routing is how we forward a packet from one router to the next. I think =
you are perhaps more likely describing "steering" or "directing" since =
you are putting the whole flow into a tunnel.

Best,
Adrian

-----Original Message-----
From: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca>=20
Sent: 28 July 2020 13:10
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; bess@ietf.org
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

Thanks Adrian for your comment.

How about changing the paragraph to something like:

"The application can be routed based on specific performance criteria =
(e.g. packets delay, packet lose, jitter) to provide a better experience =
by choosing a tunnel over an underlay that meets or exceeds the =
specified performance criteria threshold for that application"

Regards;

Basil



-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>=20
Sent: July-28-20 8:01 AM
To: bess@ietf.org
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org
Subject: [EXT]Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

Hi,

As Linda noted in her agenda slot today, =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage version 08 introduced a new paragraph =
in the Introduction that says:

    - The Application Routing can also be based on specific
       performance criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter)
       to provide better application performance by choosing the right
       underlay that meets or exceeds the specified criteria.

Firstly, s/loos/loss/ =F0=9F=98=8A

But I am concerned by the concept of "application routing" and I note =
that the term is not used elsewhere in the document nor is the concept =
expanded upon.

As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the =
concept of traffic flows being routed according to the identity of the =
application is made complicated by various privacy and security =
concerns, not to mention issues of registering application identities.

Fortunately, I suspect that this draft wants to do something similar to =
APN: that is, to classify the service that a particular =
application-sourced flow wants to receive from the network. This may be =
considerably more complex than DSCP, but the concept is the same that =
either a tunnel/pipe/flow is negotiated and established for use by the =
application, or the packets are 'coloured' for routing and treatment in =
the network.

I would suggest two things:
1. Be a lot more clear about what is meant by "application routing" =
possibly even using a different term 2. Have a look at the APN work - =
side meeting on Thursday; see =
https://github.com/APN-Community/IETF108-Side-Meeting-APN for all the =
details

Best,
Adrian

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From: "Najem, Basil" <basil.najem@bell.ca>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org" <draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXT]RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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Subject: Re: [bess] Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: "Najem, Basil" <basil.najem@bell.ca>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org" <draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 13:05:25 +0000
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References: <0c0301d664d6$d084ee80$718ecb80$@olddog.co.uk> <b9874c661e814aefb47cc871dfc7b6a6@DG4MBX02-WYN.bell.corp.bce.ca>
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Subject: Re: [bess] Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions about the  ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP transport in SECURE-EVPN
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Subject: Re: [bess] Questions about the ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP transport in SECURE-EVPN
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/LZ-qByxc4qbbTbXtQy2RoRq2Ec4>
Subject: Re: [bess] Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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Thanks to both Linda and Basil,

=20

My response is a little unthought as I am currently following two =
simultaneous sessions (sorry about that), but it seems to me that the =
answers from the two of you seem to be slightly at odds.

=20

Basil is talking about steering whole traffic flows onto tunnels to be =
carried over the network; Linda is talking about routing individual =
packets within the network.

=20

I would still caution you to avoid tying too tightly to the term =
=E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D. A single application may generate =
multiple flows with different performance criteria and you will treat =
the flows differently. Conversely, two applications may generate flows =
that have identical performance criteria.

=20

Thanks,

Adrian

=20

From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>=20
Sent: 28 July 2020 14:05
To: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca>; adrian@olddog.co.uk; =
bess@ietf.org
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Adrian,=20

=20

You said:=20

As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the =
concept of traffic flows being routed according to the identity of the =
application is made complicated by various privacy and security =
concerns, not to mention issues of registering application identities.

=20

The "Application" doesn't necessary mean all the bits in the payload. =
The "Application" can be any criteria that Client has indicated to =
Network Operators, for example the IPsec SA header bits, the TCP/UDP =
port number, the Source Addresses, etc.=20

The network will not alter the forwarding behavior unless there is the =
request from the client to inform the network to forward their traffic =
based on its provided criteria.

=20

This draft, which was written 2 years ago, is indeed to show that BGP =
can be effectively used to =E2=80=9Cdo something similar to APN: that =
is, to classify the service that a particular application-sourced flow =
wants to receive from the network=E2=80=9D.=20

=20

Since SDWAN is over different types of underlay networks, with different =
performance and security aspects, clients may want their specific =
traffic to traverse specific underlay networks, or specific peers.=20

=20

Yes, indeed that the goal is to =E2=80=9C the packets are 'coloured' for =
routing and treatment in the network.=E2=80=9D

=20

There is another draft in IDR to describe the encoding =
=E2=80=9CColor=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CIPsec SA ID=E2=80=9D: =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-discovery/

=20

Welcome your comments to that draft.=20

=20

I will attend the APN side meeting on Thurs to understand more.=20

=20

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca>=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:10 AM
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; bess@ietf.org
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Thanks Adrian for your comment.

=20

How about changing the paragraph to something like:

=20

"The application can be routed based on specific performance criteria =
(e.g. packets delay, packet lose, jitter) to provide a better experience =
by choosing a tunnel over an underlay that meets or exceeds the =
specified performance criteria threshold for that application"

=20

Regards;

=20

Basil

=20

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----

From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> >=20

Sent: July-28-20 8:01 AM

To: bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>=20

Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>=20

Subject: [EXT]Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Hi,

=20

As Linda noted in her agenda slot today, =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage version 08 introduced a new paragraph =
in the Introduction that says:

=20

    - The Application Routing can also be based on specific

       performance criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter)

       to provide better application performance by choosing the right

       underlay that meets or exceeds the specified criteria.

=20

Firstly, s/loos/loss/ =F0=9F=98=8A

=20

But I am concerned by the concept of "application routing" and I note =
that the term is not used elsewhere in the document nor is the concept =
expanded upon.

=20

As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the =
concept of traffic flows being routed according to the identity of the =
application is made complicated by various privacy and security =
concerns, not to mention issues of registering application identities.

=20

Fortunately, I suspect that this draft wants to do something similar to =
APN: that is, to classify the service that a particular =
application-sourced flow wants to receive from the network. This may be =
considerably more complex than DSCP, but the concept is the same that =
either a tunnel/pipe/flow is negotiated and established for use by the =
application, or the packets are 'coloured' for routing and treatment in =
the network.

=20

I would suggest two things:

1. Be a lot more clear about what is meant by "application routing" =
possibly even using a different term 2. Have a look at the APN work - =
side meeting on Thursday; see =
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithu=
b.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgith=
ub.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cli=
nda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C456da5e6ae9e4fc3ff6808d832ef2ef0%7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315350161504633&amp;sdata=3DB4QkVHS%=
2FkUs%2BWFZgAFQ64BDIhNlIqYxnSrlQNOx%2Bblg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0> =
&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C456da5e6ae9e4fc3ff68=
08d832ef2ef0%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315350161504=
633&amp;sdata=3DB4QkVHS%2FkUs%2BWFZgAFQ64BDIhNlIqYxnSrlQNOx%2Bblg%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0 for all the details

=20

Best,

Adrian

=20

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

External Email: Please use caution when opening links and attachments / =
Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et documents joints

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thanks to both Linda and =
Basil,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>My response =
is a little unthought as I am currently following two simultaneous =
sessions (sorry about that), but it seems to me that the answers from =
the two of you seem to be slightly at odds.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Basil is =
talking about steering whole traffic flows onto tunnels to be carried =
over the network; Linda is talking about routing individual packets =
within the network.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I would =
still caution you to avoid tying too tightly to the term =
=E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D. A single application may generate =
multiple flows with different performance criteria and you will treat =
the flows differently. Conversely, two applications may generate flows =
that have identical performance criteria.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Linda Dunbar =
&lt;linda.dunbar@futurewei.com&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 28 July 2020 =
14:05<br><b>To:</b> Najem, Basil &lt;basil.najem@bell.ca&gt;; =
adrian@olddog.co.uk; bess@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
Thought about &quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Adrian, =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>You said: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><i><span style=3D'color:#00B0F0'>As will be seen from =
the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the concept of traffic =
flows being routed according to the identity of the application is made =
complicated by various privacy and security concerns, not to mention =
issues of registering application =
identities.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The &quot;Application&quot; doesn't necessary mean all =
the bits in the payload. The &quot;Application&quot; can be any criteria =
that Client has indicated to Network Operators, for example the IPsec SA =
header bits, the TCP/UDP port number, the Source Addresses, etc. =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>The network will not =
alter the forwarding behavior unless there is the request from the =
client to inform the network to forward their traffic based on its =
provided criteria.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>This draft, which was written 2 years ago, is indeed =
to show that BGP can be effectively used to =E2=80=9C<i><span =
style=3D'color:#00B0F0'>do something similar to APN: that is, to =
classify the service that a particular application-sourced flow wants to =
receive from the network=E2=80=9D.</span></i> =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Since SDWAN is over different types of underlay =
networks, with different performance and security aspects, clients may =
want their specific traffic to traverse specific underlay networks, or =
specific peers. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes, indeed that the goal is to <span =
style=3D'color:#00B0F0'>=E2=80=9C the packets are 'coloured' for routing =
and treatment in the =
network.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>There is another draft in IDR to describe the encoding =
=E2=80=9CColor=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CIPsec SA ID=E2=80=9D: <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-disc=
overy/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-disc=
overy/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Welcome your comments to that draft. =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I will attend the APN side meeting on Thurs to =
understand more. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Najem, Basil =
&lt;basil.najem@bell.ca&gt; <br>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:10 =
AM<br>To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; bess@ietf.org<br>Cc: =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org<br>Subject: RE: Thought about =
&quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks Adrian for your =
comment.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>How about changing the paragraph to something =
like:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&quot;The application can be routed based on specific =
performance criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet lose, jitter) to =
provide a better experience by choosing a tunnel over an underlay that =
meets or exceeds the specified performance criteria threshold for that =
application&quot;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Regards;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Basil<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>From: Adrian Farrel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: July-28-20 8:01 =
AM<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org">draft-dunbar-b=
ess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: [EXT]Thought about &quot;Application =
Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>As Linda noted in her agenda slot today, =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage version 08 introduced a new paragraph =
in the Introduction that says:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - The Application Routing can also =
be based on specific<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; performance =
criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, =
jitter)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to provide better =
application performance by choosing the =
right<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; underlay that =
meets or exceeds the specified criteria.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Firstly, s/loos/loss/ <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Segoe UI =
Emoji",sans-serif'>&#128522;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>But I am concerned by the concept of &quot;application =
routing&quot; and I note that the term is not used elsewhere in the =
document nor is the concept expanded upon.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking =
(APN) effort, the concept of traffic flows being routed according to the =
identity of the application is made complicated by various privacy and =
security concerns, not to mention issues of registering application =
identities.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Fortunately, I suspect that this draft wants to do =
something similar to APN: that is, to classify the service that a =
particular application-sourced flow wants to receive from the network. =
This may be considerably more complex than DSCP, but the concept is the =
same that either a tunnel/pipe/flow is negotiated and established for =
use by the application, or the packets are 'coloured' for routing and =
treatment in the network.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
would suggest two things:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>1. Be a lot more clear about what is meant by =
&quot;application routing&quot; possibly even using a different term 2. =
Have a look at the APN work - side meeting on Thursday; see <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fgithub.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN&amp;amp;data=3D0=
2%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C456da5e6ae9e4fc3ff6808d832ef2ef0%=
7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315350161504633&amp;amp;s=
data=3DB4QkVHS%2FkUs%2BWFZgAFQ64BDIhNlIqYxnSrlQNOx%2Bblg%3D&amp;amp;reser=
ved=3D0">https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fgithub.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN&amp;amp;data=3D=
02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C456da5e6ae9e4fc3ff6808d832ef2ef0=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315350161504633&amp;amp;=
sdata=3DB4QkVHS%2FkUs%2BWFZgAFQ64BDIhNlIqYxnSrlQNOx%2Bblg%3D&amp;amp;rese=
rved=3D0</a> for all the details<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Adrian<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>External Email: Please use caution when opening links =
and attachments / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et =
documents joints<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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From: "Najem, Basil" <basil.najem@bell.ca>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org" <draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXT]RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] Why are you specifying two new tunnel types for encapsulation for EVPN?
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Subject: Re: [bess] Why are you specifying two new tunnel types for encapsulation for EVPN?
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Najem, Basil'" <basil.najem@bell.ca>, "'Linda Dunbar'" <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, <bess@ietf.org>
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Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 15:06:44 +0100
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/-KlIp-2P2cgZDn-_Zh8AOBZIb84>
Subject: Re: [bess] Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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The issue I am trying to get at is that the text you have in the draft =
is unclear and probably going to explode.

*	We have an approximate solution for that

=20

The secondary issue is whether you are talking about routing/forwarding =
within the network, or placing the traffic onto tunnels at the edge.

*	You are pretty clear on what you mean, and I am fine with that since =
it fits with my understanding of VPN.
*	Possibly Linda is thinking about how those tunnels are maintained and =
operated to meet the service levels that they offer. That would be (I =
think) out of scope for a BGP VPN

=20

Maybe we can polish the paragraph in question to become=E2=80=A6

=20

Better user experience can be provided by placing traffic flows for an =
application onto tunnels over an underlay network that meet or exceed =
the specified performance criteria (e.g., packets delay, packet lose, =
jitter) for those traffic flows.

=20

Cheers,

Adrian

=20

From: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca>=20
Sent: 28 July 2020 14:28
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>; =
bess@ietf.org
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Let=E2=80=99s get back to what SD-WAN is doing: it can steer/forward the =
application traffic based on specified performance criteria value =
requirement. This criteria is set by the subscriber (user) to ensure a =
better experience (by choosing the best tunnel over an underlay). Not =
sure what=E2=80=99s the issue here Adrian? Can we capture this statement =
as per your suggestion and remove the word =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D (or =
routed) and replace it with =E2=80=9Cforward=E2=80=9D (or forwarded)?=20

=20

Regards;

=20

Basil

=20

=20

From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>=20
Sent: July-28-20 9:19 AM
To: 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>; Najem, Basil =
<basil.najem@bell.ca>; bess@ietf.org
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org
Subject: [EXT]RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Thanks to both Linda and Basil,

=20

My response is a little unthought as I am currently following two =
simultaneous sessions (sorry about that), but it seems to me that the =
answers from the two of you seem to be slightly at odds.

=20

Basil is talking about steering whole traffic flows onto tunnels to be =
carried over the network; Linda is talking about routing individual =
packets within the network.

=20

I would still caution you to avoid tying too tightly to the term =
=E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D. A single application may generate =
multiple flows with different performance criteria and you will treat =
the flows differently. Conversely, two applications may generate flows =
that have identical performance criteria.

=20

Thanks,

Adrian

=20

From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >=20
Sent: 28 July 2020 14:05
To: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca> >; =
adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> ; bess@ietf.org =
<mailto:bess@ietf.org>=20
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>=20
Subject: RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Adrian,=20

=20

You said:=20

As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the =
concept of traffic flows being routed according to the identity of the =
application is made complicated by various privacy and security =
concerns, not to mention issues of registering application identities.

=20

The "Application" doesn't necessary mean all the bits in the payload. =
The "Application" can be any criteria that Client has indicated to =
Network Operators, for example the IPsec SA header bits, the TCP/UDP =
port number, the Source Addresses, etc.=20

The network will not alter the forwarding behavior unless there is the =
request from the client to inform the network to forward their traffic =
based on its provided criteria.

=20

This draft, which was written 2 years ago, is indeed to show that BGP =
can be effectively used to =E2=80=9Cdo something similar to APN: that =
is, to classify the service that a particular application-sourced flow =
wants to receive from the network=E2=80=9D.=20

=20

Since SDWAN is over different types of underlay networks, with different =
performance and security aspects, clients may want their specific =
traffic to traverse specific underlay networks, or specific peers.=20

=20

Yes, indeed that the goal is to =E2=80=9C the packets are 'coloured' for =
routing and treatment in the network.=E2=80=9D

=20

There is another draft in IDR to describe the encoding =
=E2=80=9CColor=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CIPsec SA ID=E2=80=9D: =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-discovery/

=20

Welcome your comments to that draft.=20

=20

I will attend the APN side meeting on Thurs to understand more.=20

=20

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca> >=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:10 AM
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> ; bess@ietf.org =
<mailto:bess@ietf.org>=20
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>=20
Subject: RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Thanks Adrian for your comment.

=20

How about changing the paragraph to something like:

=20

"The application can be routed based on specific performance criteria =
(e.g. packets delay, packet lose, jitter) to provide a better experience =
by choosing a tunnel over an underlay that meets or exceeds the =
specified performance criteria threshold for that application"

=20

Regards;

=20

Basil

=20

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----

From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> >=20

Sent: July-28-20 8:01 AM

To: bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>=20

Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>=20

Subject: [EXT]Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Hi,

=20

As Linda noted in her agenda slot today, =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage version 08 introduced a new paragraph =
in the Introduction that says:

=20

    - The Application Routing can also be based on specific

       performance criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter)

       to provide better application performance by choosing the right

       underlay that meets or exceeds the specified criteria.

=20

Firstly, s/loos/loss/ =F0=9F=98=8A

=20

But I am concerned by the concept of "application routing" and I note =
that the term is not used elsewhere in the document nor is the concept =
expanded upon.

=20

As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the =
concept of traffic flows being routed according to the identity of the =
application is made complicated by various privacy and security =
concerns, not to mention issues of registering application identities.

=20

Fortunately, I suspect that this draft wants to do something similar to =
APN: that is, to classify the service that a particular =
application-sourced flow wants to receive from the network. This may be =
considerably more complex than DSCP, but the concept is the same that =
either a tunnel/pipe/flow is negotiated and established for use by the =
application, or the packets are 'coloured' for routing and treatment in =
the network.

=20

I would suggest two things:

1. Be a lot more clear about what is meant by "application routing" =
possibly even using a different term 2. Have a look at the APN work - =
side meeting on Thursday; see =
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithu=
b.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgith=
ub.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cli=
nda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C456da5e6ae9e4fc3ff6808d832ef2ef0%7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315350161504633&amp;sdata=3DB4QkVHS%=
2FkUs%2BWFZgAFQ64BDIhNlIqYxnSrlQNOx%2Bblg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0> =
&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C456da5e6ae9e4fc3ff68=
08d832ef2ef0%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315350161504=
633&amp;sdata=3DB4QkVHS%2FkUs%2BWFZgAFQ64BDIhNlIqYxnSrlQNOx%2Bblg%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0 for all the details

=20

Best,

Adrian

=20

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The issue I am trying to get at is =
that the text you have in the draft is unclear and probably going to =
explode.<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul style=3D'margin-top:0cm' =
type=3Ddisc><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>We have an approximate solution for =
that<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The =
secondary issue is whether you are talking about routing/forwarding =
within the network, or placing the traffic onto tunnels at the =
edge.<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul style=3D'margin-top:0cm' type=3Ddisc><li =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>You are pretty clear on =
what you mean, and I am fine with that since it fits with my =
understanding of VPN.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Possibly Linda is thinking about =
how those tunnels are maintained and operated to meet the service levels =
that they offer. That would be (I think) out of scope for a BGP =
VPN<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Maybe we =
can polish the paragraph in question to =
become=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Better user experience can be provided by placing =
traffic flows for an application onto tunnels over an underlay network =
that meet or exceed the specified performance criteria (e.g., packets =
delay, packet lose, jitter) for those traffic flows.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Najem, Basil =
&lt;basil.najem@bell.ca&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 28 July 2020 =
14:28<br><b>To:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Linda Dunbar' =
&lt;linda.dunbar@futurewei.com&gt;; bess@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
Thought about &quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Let=E2=80=99s get =
back to what SD-WAN is doing: it can steer/forward the application =
traffic based on specified performance criteria value requirement. This =
criteria is set by the subscriber (user) to ensure a better experience =
(by choosing the best tunnel over an underlay). Not sure what=E2=80=99s =
the issue here Adrian? Can we capture this statement as per your =
suggestion and remove the word =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D (or routed) and =
replace it with =E2=80=9Cforward=E2=80=9D (or forwarded)? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Regards;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Basil<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Adrian Farrel =
&lt;adrian@olddog.co.uk&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> July-28-20 9:19 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Linda Dunbar' &lt;linda.dunbar@futurewei.com&gt;; =
Najem, Basil &lt;basil.najem@bell.ca&gt;; bess@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [EXT]RE: =
Thought about &quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thanks to =
both Linda and Basil,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>My response =
is a little unthought as I am currently following two simultaneous =
sessions (sorry about that), but it seems to me that the answers from =
the two of you seem to be slightly at odds.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Basil is =
talking about steering whole traffic flows onto tunnels to be carried =
over the network; Linda is talking about routing individual packets =
within the network.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I would =
still caution you to avoid tying too tightly to the term =
=E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D. A single application may generate =
multiple flows with different performance criteria and you will treat =
the flows differently. Conversely, two applications may generate flows =
that have identical performance criteria.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 28 July 2020 14:05<br><b>To:</b> Najem, Basil =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca">basil.najem@bell.ca</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org">draft-dunbar-b=
ess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: Thought about =
&quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Adrian, =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>You said: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><i><span style=3D'color:#00B0F0'>As will be seen from =
the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the concept of traffic =
flows being routed according to the identity of the application is made =
complicated by various privacy and security concerns, not to mention =
issues of registering application =
identities.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The &quot;Application&quot; doesn't necessary mean all =
the bits in the payload. The &quot;Application&quot; can be any criteria =
that Client has indicated to Network Operators, for example the IPsec SA =
header bits, the TCP/UDP port number, the Source Addresses, etc. =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>The network will not =
alter the forwarding behavior unless there is the request from the =
client to inform the network to forward their traffic based on its =
provided criteria.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>This draft, which was written 2 years ago, is indeed =
to show that BGP can be effectively used to =E2=80=9C<i><span =
style=3D'color:#00B0F0'>do something similar to APN: that is, to =
classify the service that a particular application-sourced flow wants to =
receive from the network=E2=80=9D.</span></i> =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Since SDWAN is over different types of underlay =
networks, with different performance and security aspects, clients may =
want their specific traffic to traverse specific underlay networks, or =
specific peers. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes, indeed that the goal is to <span =
style=3D'color:#00B0F0'>=E2=80=9C the packets are 'coloured' for routing =
and treatment in the =
network.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>There is another draft in IDR to describe the encoding =
=E2=80=9CColor=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CIPsec SA ID=E2=80=9D: <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-disc=
overy/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-disc=
overy/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Welcome your comments to that draft. =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I will attend the APN side meeting on Thurs to =
understand more. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Najem, Basil =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca">basil.najem@bell.ca</a>&gt; =
<br>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:10 AM<br>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a><br>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org">draft-dunbar-b=
ess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: RE: Thought about =
&quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks Adrian for your =
comment.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>How about changing the paragraph to something =
like:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&quot;The application can be routed based on specific =
performance criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet lose, jitter) to =
provide a better experience by choosing a tunnel over an underlay that =
meets or exceeds the specified performance criteria threshold for that =
application&quot;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Regards;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Basil<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>From: Adrian Farrel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: July-28-20 8:01 =
AM<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org">draft-dunbar-b=
ess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: [EXT]Thought about &quot;Application =
Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>As Linda noted in her agenda slot today, =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage version 08 introduced a new paragraph =
in the Introduction that says:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - The Application Routing can also =
be based on specific<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; performance =
criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, =
jitter)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to provide better =
application performance by choosing the =
right<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; underlay that =
meets or exceeds the specified criteria.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Firstly, s/loos/loss/ <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Segoe UI =
Emoji",sans-serif'>&#128522;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>But I am concerned by the concept of &quot;application =
routing&quot; and I note that the term is not used elsewhere in the =
document nor is the concept expanded upon.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking =
(APN) effort, the concept of traffic flows being routed according to the =
identity of the application is made complicated by various privacy and =
security concerns, not to mention issues of registering application =
identities.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Fortunately, I suspect that this draft wants to do =
something similar to APN: that is, to classify the service that a =
particular application-sourced flow wants to receive from the network. =
This may be considerably more complex than DSCP, but the concept is the =
same that either a tunnel/pipe/flow is negotiated and established for =
use by the application, or the packets are 'coloured' for routing and =
treatment in the network.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
would suggest two things:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>1. Be a lot more clear about what is meant by =
&quot;application routing&quot; possibly even using a different term 2. =
Have a look at the APN work - side meeting on Thursday; see <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fgithub.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN&amp;amp;data=3D0=
2%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C456da5e6ae9e4fc3ff6808d832ef2ef0%=
7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315350161504633&amp;amp;s=
data=3DB4QkVHS%2FkUs%2BWFZgAFQ64BDIhNlIqYxnSrlQNOx%2Bblg%3D&amp;amp;reser=
ved=3D0">https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fgithub.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN&amp;amp;data=3D=
02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C456da5e6ae9e4fc3ff6808d832ef2ef0=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315350161504633&amp;amp;=
sdata=3DB4QkVHS%2FkUs%2BWFZgAFQ64BDIhNlIqYxnSrlQNOx%2Bblg%3D&amp;amp;rese=
rved=3D0</a> for all the details<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Adrian<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>External Email: Please use caution when opening links =
and attachments / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et =
documents joints<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><hr =
size=3D1 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><strong><i><span =
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ernal Email:</span></i></strong><em><span =
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Please use caution when opening links and attachments / =
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Soyez prudent avec les liens et documents joints </span></em><span =
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From: "Najem, Basil" <basil.najem@bell.ca>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org" <draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXT]RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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Subject: Re: [bess] Why are you specifying two new tunnel types for encapsulation for EVPN?
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Ali:=20

=20

Three major high points from the discussion:=20

=20

1) tunnel-encap and RFC6512 lack a clearly defined interoperability =
statement=20

    If you are using RFC6512 PMSI tunnel attribute and Tunnel-encap =
attribute, this issue needs to be sorted out.=20

=20

2)  If your draft depends on =
draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt,=20

     then the review at IETF 105 by security experts had concerns which =
have not been resolved.=20

    (Also draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-01.txt has expired and =
there is not a replacement.)=20

=20

If your draft depends on general features of rekeying, nonces, security =
association databases, and security policy data bases, then I suggest =
revising the draft to point to existing features. =20

=20

3) [IDR-Shepherd-hat on]  A general solution for IPsec security =
association passing is wise=20

=20

All of this points toward the creation of a general IPSEC functionality =
in BGP rather than EVPN specific work.    If it is true, then we ought =
to create one solution in IDR for the 3 scenarios.=20

=20

See my comments as Sue2>.  I use the following abbreviations=20

=20

tunnel-encaps -  draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-17.txt=20

sajassi-s-evpn =E2=80=93 draft-sajasssi-bess-secure-evpn-03.txt=20

RFC6514 =E2=80=93 PMSI Tunnel Attribute (PMSI)=20

=20

Cheerily, Sue=20

=20

From: Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [mailto:sajassi@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 9:45 AM
To: Susan Hares; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] Why are you specifying two new tunnel types for =
encapsulation for EVPN?

=20

Sue,

=20

Please see my responses below marked with AS>=20

=20

From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares =
<shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 5:43 AM
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: [bess] Why are you specifying two new tunnel types for =
encapsulation for EVPN?

=20


Ali:=20


>From draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn:=20


 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#section-6>=
 6 BGP Encoding

    This document defines two new Tunnel Types along with its associated
   sub-TLVs for The Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute [ =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#ref-TUNNEL=
-ENCAP> TUNNEL-ENCAP]. These
   tunnel types correspond to ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP-Transport as
   described in  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#section-4>=
 section 4. The following sub-TLVs apply to both tunnel
   types unless stated otherwise.

=20

=20

1.  Why are you specifying 2 new tunnel types?  What makes these =
special?=20

=20

What in the use of the tunnel encapsulation draft does not support for =
the inner and outer tunnel requires you to specify a ESP-Transport and  =
ESP-in-UDP-Transport?=20

=20

AS> We need to differentiate between underlay tunnel and overlay encap. =
For example, in PMSI tunnel attribute, tunnel type can be PIM-SM or =
PIM-SSM; whereas, overlay encap can be VxLAN, NVGRE, GENVE, etc. So, =
similarly here, the underlay tunnel can be ESP-Transport or =
ESP-in-UDP-Transport and the overlay can be any of the overlay encap. If =
you think the existing tunnel-encap can address both underlay and =
overlay, please indicate how.

=20

Sue2> One of my main concerns is the interoperability between =
tunnel-encaps and extensions to RFC6514.=20

=20

tunnel-encaps  provides both outer encapsulation [see section 3.3] and =
inner encapsulation [see section 3.2].  The only overlay thing in =
sajassi-s-evpn which tunnel-encaps  which cannot be supported is GENVE.  =
=20

=20

Reviewers of tunnel-encaps have requested why GENVE was not included.  =
IDR requires 2 implementation of the code.  If sajassi-s-evpn has an =
implementation with GENVE, then tunnel-encaps should include it in the =
base tunnel-encaps draft.

=20

I do not see a PIM-SM or PIM-SSM tunnel type in the following IANA =
table:=20

 =
<https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-parameters.xhtml#tun=
nel-types> =
https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunn=
el-types=E2=80=99

=20

I suspect you were meaning the tunnel type in PMSI tunnel attribute from =
RFC6514. =20

=20

Sajassi-s-evpn states in Section 6=20

=20

   This document defines two new Tunnel Types along with its associated

   sub-TLVs for The Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute [TUNNEL-ENCAP =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#ref-TUNNEL=
-ENCAP> ].

=20

Is sajassi-s-evpn defining the tunnel types from tunnel-encaps or PMSI =
Tunnel types?


Your IANA section does not specify a definition from:=20

P-Multicast Service Interface Tunnel (PMSI Tunnel) Tunnel Types, but  an =
extended community.

=20

https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-extended-communities/bgp-extended-co=
mmunities.xhtml#evpn

=20

And in section 6. 1

   When such encapsulation is used,

   for BGP signaling, the Tunnel Type of Tunnel Encapsulation TLV is set

   to ESP-Transport and the Tunnel Type of Encapsulation Extended

   Community is set to NVO encapsulation type (e.g., VxLAN, GENEVE, GPE,

   etc.). This implies that the customer packets are first encapsulated

   using NVO encapsulation type and then it is further encapsulated &

   encrypted using ESP-Transport mode.

=20

Which attribute are you setting the tunnel encapsulation type in?  =
tunnel-encaps or PMSI tunnel attribute?

What NVO encapsulation types are you specifying?=20

=20

What we lack is a clear definition of the interoperability between =
tunnel-encaps and RFC6514 in your draft.  If you have another draft you =
are relying on to provide this interoperability between 2 BGP =
attributes, please let me know.=20

=20

=20

2.  What IPSEC security information is unique to the EVPN solution that =
is not general?=20

=20

AS> They are general and not specific to EVPN.=20

Sue2> Then we should have one draft that passes this information that =
works for all BGP cases.=20

Then, this work belongs in IDR. =20

=20

Section 4 of  draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03.txt=20

describes the IPSEC DIM and security policies on in the following case:

=20

a) you need to send IPSEC information =E2=80=93 via RR mesh=20

b) you have policies that you want to use  the =
[draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt]

c) you want on demand re-keying=20

d) =E2=80=9Cpolicy=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 undefined

on #a) there are multiple BGP IPsec proposal using the RR mesh=20

=20

AS> What is the question wrt this draft?

Sue2> You answered the question above =E2=80=93 nothing is special to =
sajassi-s-evpn due to IPsec

Therefore, this work should take place in IDR. =20

=20

on #b) can you tell me what is unique about =
[draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt]=20

=20

AS> Again what is the specific question wrt this draft? What =
section/line of this draft is not clear?

=20

Sue2> What are the key features of =
[draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt] that sajassi-s-evpn =
depends on?=20

=20

I was trying to be polite =E2=80=93 so let me be blunt.  This draft has =
expired and it is not in the discussions for IPSECME. =20

=20

The Security folks had concerns about =
[draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt] asked you at 105.

They asked why you are not using existing IPsec distribution techniques. =


=20

The I2NSF WG has WG draft on SDN based IPsec Flow Protection =
(draft-ietf-i2nsf-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection-08.txt)

and RFC8329 comments on interface to security functions.   IMHO it does =
not seem to align with this 2 drafts, but I am not a security expert.=20

=20

You are specifying another draft which the security folks had serious =
concerns regarding and is not a WG Draft.  It seems to specify the =
keying, the nonce mechanisms, the security policy data base, the =
security associations, and policy distribution.  The draft reports to =
have looked at I2NSF and network controllers, but the IETF 105 review =
questioned both.=20

=20

So .. If your draft depends on =
draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt =E2=80=93 I have grave =
concerns.=20

=20

What are the key elements you need from =
draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt?

Can these be provided from existing IPSEC mechanisms.=20

=20

=20

on #c) isn=E2=80=99t on-demand re-keying a desire to prevent DDOS that =
is a good feature for all IPsec?=20

=20

AS> Yes, re-keying is a requirement.

Sue2> Good, then inserting this in BGP should be an IDR function.=20

=20

On #d) policy is normal for all IPsec=20

=20

AS> You can have min. set with no SA policy, you can have a single SA =
policy, or you can have a SA policy list.=20

Sue2> We are aligned on the policy.=20

=20

Cheers,

Ali

=20

Thank you, Sue


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>Ali: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Three major high points from the discussion: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>1) tunnel-encap and RFC6512 lack a clearly =
defined interoperability statement <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If you are using =
RFC6512 PMSI tunnel attribute and Tunnel-encap attribute, this issue =
needs to be sorted out. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>2) =C2=A0If your draft depends on =
draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0then the =
review at IETF 105 by security experts had concerns which have not been =
resolved. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0(Also =
draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-01.txt has expired and there is not =
a replacement.) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>If your draft depends on general features of =
rekeying, nonces, security association databases, and security policy =
data bases, then I suggest revising the draft to point to existing =
features.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>3) [IDR-Shepherd-hat on]=C2=A0 A general =
solution for IPsec security association passing is wise =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>All of this points toward the creation of a =
general IPSEC functionality in BGP rather than EVPN specific =
work.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If it is true, then we ought to create one =
solution in IDR for the 3 scenarios. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>See my comments as Sue2&gt;.=C2=A0 I use the =
following abbreviations <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>tunnel-encaps -=C2=A0 =
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-17.txt <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>sajassi-s-evpn =E2=80=93 =
draft-sajasssi-bess-secure-evpn-03.txt <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>RFC6514 =E2=80=93 PMSI Tunnel Attribute =
(PMSI) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Cheerily, Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'> Ali Sajassi =
(sajassi) [mailto:sajassi@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 28, =
2020 9:45 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; bess@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> =
Re: [bess] Why are you specifying two new tunnel types for encapsulation =
for EVPN?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Please see my responses below marked with =
AS&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>BESS =
&lt;bess-bounces@ietf.org&gt; on behalf of Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 5:43 =
AM<br><b>To: </b>&quot;bess@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>[bess] Why are you specifying =
two new tunnel types for encapsulation for =
EVPN?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><h2><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:normal'>Ali: </span><a =
name=3Dsection-6></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></h2><h2><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:normal'>From =
draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></h2><h2><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#sec=
tion-6"><span =
style=3D'color:black;font-weight:normal'>6</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:normal'> BGP =
Encoding</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></h2><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;This document defines two =
new Tunnel Types along with its =
associated<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; sub-TLVs for The Tunnel =
Encapsulation Attribute [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#ref=
-TUNNEL-ENCAP" title=3D"&quot;The BGP Tunnel Encapsulation =
Attribute&quot;"><span style=3D'color:black'>TUNNEL-ENCAP</span></a>]. =
These<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; tunnel types correspond to =
ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP-Transport =
as<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; described in <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#sec=
tion-4"><span style=3D'color:black'>section 4</span></a>. The following =
sub-TLVs apply to both tunnel<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; types unless stated =
otherwise.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>1. &nbsp;Why are you specifying 2 new tunnel =
types? &nbsp;What makes these special? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>What in the use of the tunnel encapsulation =
draft does not support for the inner and outer tunnel requires you to =
specify a ESP-Transport and &nbsp;ESP-in-UDP-Transport? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>AS&gt; We need to differentiate between =
underlay tunnel and overlay encap. For example, in PMSI tunnel =
attribute, tunnel type can be PIM-SM or PIM-SSM; whereas, overlay encap =
can be VxLAN, NVGRE, GENVE, etc. So, similarly here, the underlay tunnel =
can be ESP-Transport or ESP-in-UDP-Transport and the overlay can be any =
of the overlay encap. If you think the existing tunnel-encap can address =
both underlay and overlay, please indicate how.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Sue2&gt; One of my main concerns is the =
interoperability between tunnel-encaps and extensions to RFC6514. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>tunnel-encaps =C2=A0provides both outer =
encapsulation [see section 3.3] and inner encapsulation [see section =
3.2].=C2=A0 The only overlay thing in sajassi-s-evpn which tunnel-encaps =
=C2=A0which cannot be supported is GENVE.=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Reviewers of tunnel-encaps have requested =
why GENVE was not included.=C2=A0 IDR requires 2 implementation of the =
code.=C2=A0 If sajassi-s-evpn has an implementation with GENVE, then =
tunnel-encaps should include it in the base tunnel-encaps =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>I do not see a PIM-SM or PIM-SSM tunnel type =
in the following IANA table: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><a =
href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-parameters.xh=
tml#tunnel-types"><span =
style=3D'color:black'>https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp=
-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-types</span></a>=E2=80=99<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>I suspect you were meaning the tunnel type =
in PMSI tunnel attribute from RFC6514.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Sajassi-s-evpn states in Section 6 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 This document defines two new Tunnel =
Types along with its associated<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 sub-TLVs for The Tunnel Encapsulation =
Attribute [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03#ref=
-TUNNEL-ENCAP" title=3D"&quot;The BGP Tunnel Encapsulation =
Attribute&quot;">TUNNEL-ENCAP</a>].<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Is sajassi-s-evpn defining the tunnel types =
from tunnel-encaps or PMSI Tunnel types?<br> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Your IANA section does not specify a =
definition from: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>P-Multicast =
Service Interface Tunnel (PMSI Tunnel) Tunnel Types, but =C2=A0an =
extended community.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'> </span><a =
href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-extended-communities/bgp-ext=
ended-communities.xhtml#evpn">https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-extend=
ed-communities/bgp-extended-communities.xhtml#evpn</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>And in section 6. 1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 When such encapsulation is =
used,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 for BGP signaling, the Tunnel Type of =
Tunnel Encapsulation TLV is set<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 to ESP-Transport and the Tunnel Type of =
Encapsulation Extended<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 Community is set to NVO encapsulation =
type (e.g., VxLAN, GENEVE, GPE,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 etc.). This implies that the customer =
packets are first encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 using NVO encapsulation type and then it =
is further encapsulated &amp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 encrypted using ESP-Transport =
mode.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Which attribute are you setting the tunnel =
encapsulation type in?=C2=A0 tunnel-encaps or PMSI tunnel =
attribute?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>What NVO =
encapsulation types are you specifying? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>What we lack is a clear definition of the =
interoperability between tunnel-encaps and RFC6514 in your draft.=C2=A0 =
If you have another draft you are relying on to provide this =
interoperability between 2 BGP attributes, please let me know. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>=C2=A0</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>2.&nbsp; What IPSEC security information is unique to =
the EVPN solution that is not general? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>AS&gt; They =
are general and not specific to EVPN. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue2&gt; Then we should =
have one draft that passes this information that works for all BGP =
cases. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Then, this work belongs in IDR.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Section =
4 of &nbsp;draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-03.txt =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>describes the IPSEC DIM and security policies on in the =
following case:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>a) you =
need to send IPSEC information =E2=80=93 via RR mesh =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>b) you =
have policies that you want to use &nbsp;the =
[draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt]</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>c) you want on demand re-keying </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>d) =E2=80=9Cpolicy=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 =
undefined</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>on #a) =
there are multiple BGP IPsec proposal using the RR mesh =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>AS&gt; What is the question wrt this =
draft?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue2&gt; You answered the question above =
=E2=80=93 nothing is special to sajassi-s-evpn due to =
IPsec<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Therefore, this work should take place in =
IDR.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>on #b) can you tell me what is unique about =
[draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt] <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>AS&gt; Again =
what is the specific question wrt this draft? What section/line of this =
draft is not clear?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue2&gt; What are the =
key features of [draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt] that =
sajassi-s-evpn depends on? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I was trying to be =
polite =E2=80=93 so let me be blunt. =C2=A0This draft has expired and it =
is not in the discussions for IPSECME. =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The Security folks had =
concerns about [draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt] asked you =
at 105.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>They asked why you are not using existing IPsec =
distribution techniques. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The I2NSF WG has WG =
draft on SDN based IPsec Flow Protection =
(draft-ietf-i2nsf-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection-08.txt)<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>and RFC8329 comments =
on interface to security functions. =C2=A0=C2=A0IMHO it does not seem to =
align with this 2 drafts, but I am not a security expert. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>You are specifying =
another draft which the security folks had serious concerns regarding =
and is not a WG Draft. =C2=A0It seems to specify the keying, the nonce =
mechanisms, the security policy data base, the security associations, =
and policy distribution. =C2=A0The draft reports to have looked at I2NSF =
and network controllers, but the IETF 105 review questioned both. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>So .. If your draft =
depends on draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt =E2=80=93 I have =
grave concerns. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>What are the key =
elements you need from =
draft-carrell-ipsecme-controller-ike-00.txt?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Can these be provided =
from existing IPSEC mechanisms. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>on #c) =
isn=E2=80=99t on-demand re-keying a desire to prevent DDOS that is a =
good feature for all IPsec? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>AS&gt; Yes, =
re-keying is a requirement.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue2&gt; Good, then inserting this in BGP should =
be an IDR function. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>On #d) policy is normal for all IPsec =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>AS&gt; You can have min. set with no SA policy, you =
can have a single SA policy, or you can have a SA policy list. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue2&gt; We are aligned on the policy. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Ali<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Thank =
you, Sue</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
To: "'Ali Sajassi \(sajassi\)'" <sajassi@cisco.com>, <bess@ietf.org>
Cc: "'Hu, Jun \(Nokia - US/Mountain View\)'" <jun.hu@nokia.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/6EK7kAJSiHWA9QLxbWGx74Uf7vE>
Subject: [bess] IPSec Tunnels and draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn
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Ali and bess WG: 

 

IDR has 3 proposals for IPsec tunnels that impact
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-17.txt.  As an IDR co-chair/shepherd,  I have
been discussing these three drafts (Ali and two other authors sets) to try
to find out if we can have one general solutions.   

 

The discussion has been very fruitful to point up BGP issues of
interoperability, security, privacy, manageability, and scaling.  For
example, there is a lack of a clear specification between RFC6514 (PMSI
tunnel attribute) and the tunnel-encaps draft that specifies how these
drafts interoperate.  I suspect the bess and idr chairs will need to discuss
if tunnel-encaps has to address this point. 

 

I wrote up my ideas in draft-hares-idr-bgp-ipsec-analysis-00.txt so the
authors could tell me what I misunderstood.   You'll find this draft stops
half way.  I have the rest of the draft written, but I wanted feedback from
all the author teams before sending it out. 

 

After hearing some of the details from the authors, I would like to sponsor
an IDR interim so we could discuss these issues at length.   If you think
this is a good idea, please let me know. 

 

One other thing. unfortunately, I scheduled a set of meetings for EDT time
after IETF meetings this week.   Your next response will occur from 11-16
UTC on Wednesday. 

 

Cheerily, Sue 

 

 


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ali and =
bess WG: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>IDR has 3 proposals for IPsec tunnels that impact =
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-17.txt.&nbsp; As an IDR co-chair/shepherd, =
&nbsp;I have been discussing these three drafts (Ali and two other =
authors sets) to try to find out if we can have one general solutions. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The discussion has been very fruitful to point up BGP =
issues of interoperability, security, privacy, manageability, and =
scaling.&nbsp; For example, there is a lack of a clear specification =
between RFC6514 (PMSI tunnel attribute) and the tunnel-encaps draft that =
specifies how these drafts interoperate. &nbsp;I suspect the bess and =
idr chairs will need to discuss if tunnel-encaps has to address this =
point. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I wrote up my ideas in =
draft-hares-idr-bgp-ipsec-analysis-00.txt so the authors could tell me =
what I misunderstood.&nbsp; &nbsp;You&#8217;ll find this draft stops =
half way.&nbsp; I have the rest of the draft written, but I wanted =
feedback from all the author teams before sending it out. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>After hearing some of the details from the authors, I =
would like to sponsor an IDR interim so we could discuss these issues at =
length.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you think this is a good idea, please let me =
know. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>One other thing&#8230; unfortunately, I scheduled a =
set of meetings for EDT time after IETF meetings this week.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Your next response will occur from 11-16 UTC on Wednesday. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheerily, Sue <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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To: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Do you need IPsecme WG agreement  to create a new IPsec Transport Mode header:  ESP-in-UDP transport in SECURE-EVPN
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From nobody Tue Jul 28 23:16:38 2020
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From: Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 23:16:21 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+-tSzzmw-x-us+uXi=30i2YYSgHdiTQA-ZpE5CLFqVO9XWKPQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
Cc: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/rwVddZ0WD55qPbov3bddH_slOVs>
Subject: Re: [bess] Do you need IPsecme WG agreement to create a new IPsec Transport Mode header: ESP-in-UDP transport in SECURE-EVPN
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Linda,

The draft references RFC 3948 which already covers this.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3948#section-3.2

Anoop

On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 4:17 PM Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
wrote:

> Ali,
>
>
>
> Thank you very much for the explanation.
>
>
>
> IPsec ESP Transport mode header is :
>
>
>
> Do you need IPsecme WG to agree to insert a new UDP header between IP
> header and the ESP header?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Linda Dunbar
>
>
>
> *From:* Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi@cisco.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2020 8:14 AM
> *To:* Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>; bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Questions about the ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP transport
> in SECURE-EVPN
>
>
>
> Linda,
>
>
>
> Please see my responses inline marked with AS> =E2=80=A6
>
>
>
> *From: *Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 5:49 AM
> *To: *Cisco Employee <sajassi@cisco.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Questions about the ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP transport in
> SECURE-EVPN
>
>
>
> Ali,
>
>
>
> Just follow up with my question in the BESS WG session.
>
> Your draft introduced two Tunnel Types in 5.1: ESP-Transport and
> ESP-in-UDP Transport as below.
>
>
>
>
>
> When standard IP Encapsulating Security Payload (ESP) is used
>
> (without outer UDP header) for encryption of NVO packets, it is used
>
> in transport mode as depicted below. When such encapsulation is used,
>
> for BGP signaling, the Tunnel Type of Tunnel Encapsulation TLV is set
>
> to ESP-Transport and the Tunnel Type of Encapsulation Extended
>
> Community is set to NVO encapsulation type (e.g., VxLAN, GENEVE, GPE,
>
> etc.). This implies that the customer packets are first encapsulated
>
> using NVO encapsulation type and then it is further encapsulated &
>
> encrypted using ESP-Transport mode.
>
>
>
> Question 1:  Are you assuming that  using IPsec Transport mode? Instead o=
f
> IPsec Tunnel mode?
>
>
>
> AS> Not assuming but stating =E2=98=BA 1st line of section 5.1 says:
>
>  =E2=80=9C =E2=80=A6 it is used in transport mode as depicted below=E2=80=
=9D
>
>
>
> Question 2: Your Figure 3 has two encodings, which one is =E2=80=9CESP-Tr=
ansport=E2=80=9D,
> which one is =E2=80=9CESP-in-UDP=E2=80=9D?
>
>
>
> AS> Figure 3 is for ESP-transport and Figure 4 is for ESP-in-UDP.
> Furthermore, section 5.1 is for ESP-transport and section 5.2 is for
> ESP-in-UDP.
>
>
>
> Question 3: The NVO encapsulation (VxLAN, GENEVE, GRE) can also be inside
> the IPsec ESP tunnel. In that case, which type is used?
>
>
>
> AS> The tunnel type of the attribute indicates what kind of underlay
> tunnel is used and the tunnel type of the extended community indicates wh=
at
> kind of overlay encap is used. Section 5.1 says:
>
>
>
>        =E2=80=9Cthe Tunnel Type of Tunnel Encapsulation TLV is set
>
>    to ESP-Transport and the Tunnel Type of Encapsulation Extended
>
>    Community is set to NVO encapsulation type (e.g., VxLAN, GENEVE, GPE,
>
>    etc.).=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> And section 5.2 says:
>
>    =E2=80=9Cthe Tunnel Type
>
>    of Tunnel Encapsulation TLV is set to ESP-in-UDP-Transport and the
>
>    Tunnel Type of Encapsulation Extended Community is set to NVO
>
>    encapsulation type (e.g., VxLAN, GENEVE, GPE, etc.). =E2=80=9C
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ali
>
>
>
> Thanks, Linda
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Linda,<div><br></div><div>The draft refer=
ences RFC 3948 which already covers this.=C2=A0</div><div><a href=3D"https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3948#section-3.2">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3=
948#section-3.2</a></div><div><br></div><div>Anoop</div></div><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 28, 202=
0 at 4:17 PM Linda Dunbar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com"=
>linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-4515056277810119008WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ali, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you very much for the explanation. <u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IPsec ESP Transport mode header is :<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><img width=3D"697" height=3D"283" style=3D"width: 7.=
2604in; height: 2.9479in;" id=3D"gmail-m_-4515056277810119008Picture_x0020_=
2" src=3D"cid:1739933bf577745b41"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do you need IPsecme WG to agree to insert a new UDP =
header between IP header and the ESP header?
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><img width=3D"735" height=3D"290" style=3D"width: 7.=
6562in; height: 3.0208in;" id=3D"gmail-m_-4515056277810119008Picture_x0020_=
3" src=3D"cid:1739933bf579374b62"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Linda Dunbar<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Ali Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:sajassi@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sajassi@cisco.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 28, 2020 8:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Linda Dunbar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:bess=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Questions about the ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP transp=
ort in SECURE-EVPN<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Linda,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please see my responses inline marked with AS&gt; =
=E2=80=A6<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">From: =
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Linda Dunbar &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">linda.dunbar@fu=
turewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 5:49 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Cisco Employee &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">sajassi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Questions about the ESP-Transport and ESP-in-UDP transport =
in SECURE-EVPN<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ali, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Just follow up with my question in the BESS WG sessi=
on. <u></u>
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Your draft introduced two Tunnel Types in 5.1: ESP-T=
ransport and ESP-in-UDP Transport as below.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Courier">When standard IP Encapsulating Security Payload =
(ESP) is used</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Courier">(without outer UDP header) for encryption of NVO=
 packets, it is used</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Courier">in transport mode as depicted below. When such e=
ncapsulation is used,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Courier">for BGP signaling, the Tunnel Type of Tunnel Enc=
apsulation TLV is set</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Courier">to ESP-Transport and the Tunnel Type of Encapsul=
ation Extended</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Courier">Community is set to NVO encapsulation type (e.g.=
, VxLAN, GENEVE, GPE,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Courier">etc.). This implies that the customer packets ar=
e first encapsulated</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Courier">using NVO encapsulation type and then it is furt=
her encapsulated &amp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Courier">encrypted using ESP-Transport mode.</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Courier">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Question 1: =C2=A0Are you assuming that =C2=A0using =
IPsec Transport mode? Instead of IPsec Tunnel mode?
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">AS&gt; Not assuming but=
 stating </span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,sans-=
serif">=E2=98=BA</span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> 1<su=
p>st</sup> line of section 5.1 says:<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> =E2=80=9C =E2=80=A6 </=
span><span style=3D"color:black">it is used in transport mode as depicted b=
elow=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Question 2: Your Figure 3 has two encodings, which o=
ne is =E2=80=9CESP-Transport=E2=80=9D, which one is =E2=80=9CESP-in-UDP=E2=
=80=9D?
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">AS&gt; Figure 3 is for ESP-transport and Figure 4 is=
 for ESP-in-UDP. Furthermore, section 5.1 is for ESP-transport and section =
5.2 is for ESP-in-UDP.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Question 3: The NVO encapsulation (VxLAN, GENEVE, GR=
E) can also be inside the IPsec ESP tunnel. In that case, which type is use=
d?
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">AS&gt; The tunnel type of the attribute indicates wh=
at kind of underlay tunnel is used and the tunnel type of the extended comm=
unity indicates what kind of overlay encap is used. Section 5.1 says:<u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D"color:black">the Tunnel Type=
 of Tunnel Encapsulation TLV is set<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 to ESP-Transport and the Tunn=
el Type of Encapsulation Extended<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Community is set to NVO encap=
sulation type (e.g., VxLAN, GENEVE, GPE,<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 etc.).=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u>=
</span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">And section 5.2 says:<u></u><u></u></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9Cthe Tunnel Type<u></=
u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 of Tunnel Encapsulation TLV i=
s set to ESP-in-UDP-Transport and the<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tunnel Type of Encapsulation =
Extended Community is set to NVO<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 encapsulation type (e.g., VxL=
AN, GENEVE, GPE, etc.). =E2=80=9C<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ali<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks, Linda<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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From nobody Wed Jul 29 03:28:16 2020
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From: "Najem, Basil" <basil.najem@bell.ca>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
CC: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
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Dear Madam/Sir;

I am sending this email to confirm that I am NOT aware of any IPR associate=
d with this draft.

Best Regards;

Basil Najem

--_000_c9ba6ef3c1534f4ca655b84a967e1ebdDG4MBX02WYNbellcorpbcec_
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear Madam/Sir;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am sending this email to confirm that I am NOT awa=
re of any IPR associated with this draft.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best Regards;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Basil Najem<o:p></o:p></p>
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From: "Najem, Basil" <basil.najem@bell.ca>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org" <draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXT]Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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Subject: Re: [bess] Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
CC: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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From nobody Thu Jul 30 15:33:48 2020
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: "Najem, Basil" <basil.najem@bell.ca>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org" <draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
Thread-Index: AdZk1YG1DmNn3SN6SeKFKG+a3o8C+gAAaV3QAAGnBxAAAPxqAAAATEsAAAFbMwAAAVywAAB02zUA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 22:33:38 +0000
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References: <0c0301d664d6$d084ee80$718ecb80$@olddog.co.uk> <b9874c661e814aefb47cc871dfc7b6a6@DG4MBX02-WYN.bell.corp.bce.ca> <SN6PR13MB2334E829E9E87F9C02D2F42A85730@SN6PR13MB2334.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <0c3001d664e1$b5cabbf0$216033d0$@olddog.co.uk> <ebd80842fb26440d9622084b51ff72c4@DG4MBX02-WYN.bell.corp.bce.ca> <0c8d01d664e8$56f62310$04e26930$@olddog.co.uk> <39dd4ec463cf4563b400ba471cb0f705@DG4MBX02-WYN.bell.corp.bce.ca>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/PWvmluRA5IYVcvwRXup6UBIG01s>
Subject: Re: [bess] Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] Why are you specifying two new tunnel types for encapsulation for EVPN?
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Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 02:42:42 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] Why are you specifying two new tunnel types for encapsulation for EVPN?
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--_000_89C933FC8EB147549D488AA0B13089A8ciscocom_--


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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : SRv6 BGP based Overlay services
        Authors         : Gaurav Dawra
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Bruno Decraene
                          Shunwan Zhuang
                          Jorge Rabadan
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-04.txt
	Pages           : 28
	Date            : 2020-07-30

Abstract:
   This draft defines procedures and messages for SRv6-based BGP
   services including L3VPN, EVPN and Internet services.  It builds on
   RFC4364 "BGP/MPLS IP Virtual Private Networks (VPNs)" and RFC7432
   "BGP MPLS-Based Ethernet VPN".


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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--Apple-Mail-02FD052C-8069-4D0F-B600-8AF75FE2F134
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	charset=utf-8
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Hi Bess Chairs, WG,

As mentioned in the IETF108 presentation, we have submitted new version of t=
he document.

- Removing orphan reference
- Renaming Per-ES A-D route/ Per-EVI A-D route=E2=80=9D  to =E2=80=9CEtherne=
t A-D per ES/ Ethernet A-D per EVI=E2=80=9D  as per base 7432 draft

Authors would like to request WGLC for this document.

Many Thanks!

Gaurav

> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Date: July 30, 2020 at 10:13:37 PM PDT
> To: Shunwan Zhuang <zhuangshunwan@huawei.com>, Bruno Decraene <bruno.decra=
ene@orange.com>, Gaurav Dawra <gdawra.ietf@gmail.com>, Clarence Filsfils <cf=
ilsfil@cisco.com>, Jorge Rabadan <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, Robert Raszuk <r=
obert@raszuk.net>
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-04.txt=

>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-04.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Swadesh Agrawal and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>=20
> Name:        draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services
> Revision:    04
> Title:        SRv6 BGP based Overlay services
> Document date:    2020-07-30
> Group:        bess
> Pages:        28
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-=
services-04.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-serv=
ices/
> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-=
04
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-srv6=
-services
> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bess-srv6-s=
ervices-04
>=20
> Abstract:
>   This draft defines procedures and messages for SRv6-based BGP
>   services including L3VPN, EVPN and Internet services.  It builds on
>   RFC4364 "BGP/MPLS IP Virtual Private Networks (VPNs)" and RFC7432
>   "BGP MPLS-Based Ethernet VPN".
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissi=
on
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat

--Apple-Mail-02FD052C-8069-4D0F-B600-8AF75FE2F134
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"><meta http-equiv=3D"conten=
t-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><div dir=3D"ltr"><meta http-e=
quiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">Hi Bess Chairs,=
 WG,<div><br></div><div>As mentioned in the IETF108 presentation, we have su=
bmitted new version of the document.</div><div><br></div><div>- Removing orp=
han reference</div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-ad=
just: auto; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">- Renaming Per-=
ES A-D route/ Per-EVI A-D route=E2=80=9D&nbsp;&nbsp;to =E2=80=9CEthernet A-D=
 per ES/ Ethernet A-D per EVI=E2=80=9D&nbsp; as per base 7432 draft</span></=
div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><sp=
an style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br>=
</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif=
" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adj=
ust: auto;">Authors would like to request WGLC for this document.</span></fo=
nt></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" size=3D"3=
"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"=
><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-=
serif" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-siz=
e-adjust: auto;">Many Thanks!</span></font></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>G=
aurav<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><b>From:</b> i=
nternet-drafts@ietf.org<br><b>Date:</b> July 30, 2020 at 10:13:37 PM PDT<br>=
<b>To:</b> Shunwan Zhuang &lt;zhuangshunwan@huawei.com&gt;, Bruno Decraene &=
lt;bruno.decraene@orange.com&gt;, Gaurav Dawra &lt;gdawra.ietf@gmail.com&gt;=
, Clarence Filsfils &lt;cfilsfil@cisco.com&gt;, Jorge Rabadan &lt;jorge.raba=
dan@nokia.com&gt;, Robert Raszuk &lt;robert@raszuk.net&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b=
> <b>New Version Notification for draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-04.txt</b><b=
r><br></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF=
<span></span><br><span>A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-0=
4.txt</span><br><span>has been successfully submitted by Swadesh Agrawal and=
 posted to the</span><br><span>IETF repository.</span><br><span></span><br><=
span>Name: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services</span><b=
r><span>Revision: &nbsp; &nbsp;04</span><br><span>Title: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp;SRv6 BGP based Overlay services</span><br><span>Document date: &nbsp=
; &nbsp;2020-07-30</span><br><span>Group: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;bess</s=
pan><br><span>Pages: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;28</span><br><span>URL: &nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;https://www.ie=
tf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-04.txt</span><br><span>=
Status: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services/</span><br><span>Htmlized: &nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-sr=
v6-services-04</span><br><span>Htmlized: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services</span><=
br><span>Diff: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-04</span><b=
r><span></span><br><span>Abstract:</span><br><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;This draft d=
efines procedures and messages for SRv6-based BGP</span><br><span> &nbsp;&nb=
sp;services including L3VPN, EVPN and Internet services. &nbsp;It builds on<=
/span><br><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;RFC4364 "BGP/MPLS IP Virtual Private Networks (=
VPNs)" and RFC7432</span><br><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;"BGP MPLS-Based Ethernet VPN=
".</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span=
><br><span>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of=
 submission</span><br><span>until the htmlized version and diff are availabl=
e at tools.ietf.org.</span><br><span></span><br><span>The IETF Secretariat</=
span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></=
div></body></html>=

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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "'Hu, Jun (Nokia - US/Mountain View)'" <jun.hu@nokia.com>
Thread-Topic: IPSec Tunnels and draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn 
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Subject: Re: [bess] IPSec Tunnels and draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn
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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Do you need IPsecme WG agreement  to create a new IPsec Transport Mode header:  ESP-in-UDP transport in SECURE-EVPN
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Subject: Re: [bess] Do you need IPsecme WG agreement to create a new IPsec Transport Mode header: ESP-in-UDP transport in SECURE-EVPN
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To: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, Jeff Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG adoption and IPR poll for draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-07
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We have received all the IPR poll replies and the draft got a good amount of
support.

 

The document is adopted as a WG document.


Authors,

 

Please republish using -ietf-.

 

Thanks,

 

 

From: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com> 
Sent: mardi 23 juin 2020 14:14
To: bess@ietf.org
Subject: WG adoption and IPR poll for draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-07

 

Hello,

 

This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-07 [1] .

 

Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group
list.

 

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to
this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

 

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please
respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document won't
progress without answers from all the authors and contributors.

Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

 

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly
respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in
conformance with IETF rules.

 

This poll for adoption closes on 7th July 2020.

 

Regards,

Matthew and Stephane

 

[1]  <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/

 

 


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DFR =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>We have received =
all the IPR poll replies and the draft got a good amount of =
support.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The document is =
adopted as a WG document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><br>Authors,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Please republish =
using -ietf-.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> slitkows.ietf@gmail.com =
&lt;slitkows.ietf@gmail.com&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> mardi 23 juin 2020 =
14:14<br><b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> WG adoption and IPR =
poll for =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-07<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hello,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>This email begins a =
two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-07 [1] =
.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>Please review the draft =
and post any comments to the BESS working group =
list.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>We are also&nbsp;polling =
for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this Document, to =
ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules =
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more =
details).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>If you are listed as an =
author or a contributor of this document, please respond to this email =
and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed =
IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document won't progress without =
answers from all the authors and contributors.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this =
document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>If you are not listed as =
an author or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you =
are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with =
IETF rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>This poll for adoption =
closes on 7th July 2020.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>Matthew and =
Stephane<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>[1]&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usag=
e/"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan=
-usage/</span></a><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p></div></body></html>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/yRA6tMKHs7sYh_-kegElweyT-wU>
Subject: Re: [bess] Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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Hi Linda,

=20

Thank you so much for continuing to try to accommodate me. Please =
consider this my last attempt to fix this unless someone else on the =
mailing list joins in to support my opinion.

=20

I do not believe the term =E2=80=9Capplication forwarding=E2=80=9D is =
either defined in the document or particularly meaningful. It is no =
better than =E2=80=9Capplication routing=E2=80=9D in this respect.

=20

I think that you are trying to refer to =E2=80=9Cindividual traffic =
flows associated with a specific application=E2=80=9D (although you may =
intend to refer to =E2=80=9Cindividual packets=E2=80=9D). And you are =
either trying to describe how traffic is =E2=80=9Cclassified=E2=80=9D =
onto paths/tunnels (as in bullet 3) or trying to indicate how packets =
may be handled within the network (possibly bullet 4), or both.

=20

You also have the use of an application identifier as a mechanism to =
classify traffic. If you go down that path you must discuss privacy and =
netneutrality even if all you have to say is that this function takes =
place within a private (enterprise) network where all users are assumed =
to be required to comply with the network operator=E2=80=99s usage =
rules.

=20

I=E2=80=99ll stop now.

=20

Once again, thanks for trying to make me happy =F0=9F=98=8A

=20

Best,

Adrian

=20

From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>=20
Sent: 30 July 2020 23:34
To: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca>; adrian@olddog.co.uk; =
bess@ietf.org
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Adrian,=20

=20

Thank you very much for the comments and suggestions.=20

Per your suggestions, we have changed the wording to the following. Do =
you think it is clear?=20

=20

Here are some key characteristics of =E2=80=9CSDWAN=E2=80=9D networks:

-   Augment of transport, which refers to utilizing overlay paths over =
different underlay networks. Very often there are multiple parallel =
overlay paths between any two SDWAN edges, some of which are private =
networks over which traffic can traverse with or without encryption, =
others require encryption, e.g. over untrusted public networks.=20

-   Enable direct Internet access from remote sites, instead hauling all =
traffic to Corporate HQ for centralized policy control.=20

-   Some traffic can be forwarded based on their application IDs instead =
of based on destination IP addresses. For example, placing traffic onto =
specific overlay paths based on their application IDs. =20

-   The Application forwarding can also be based on specific performance =
criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter) to provide better =
application performance by choosing the right underlay that meets or =
exceeds the specified criteria.=20

=20

If it is not clear, can you help to wordsmith it?=20

=20

Linda Dunbar

From: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca> >=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 9:46 AM
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> ; Linda Dunbar =
<linda.dunbar@futurewei.com <mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; =
bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>=20
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>=20
Subject: RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Hi Adrian;

=20

Given the context in the document, I=E2=80=99d revert back to the =
original paragraph (my proposed text in the thread) and change =
=E2=80=9Croute/routed=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cforward/forwarded=E2=80=9D.

=20

Regards;

=20

Basil

=20

From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> >=20
Sent: July-28-20 10:07 AM
To: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca> >; =
'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; bess@ietf.org =
<mailto:bess@ietf.org>=20
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>=20
Subject: [EXT]RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

The issue I am trying to get at is that the text you have in the draft =
is unclear and probably going to explode.

*	We have an approximate solution for that

=20

The secondary issue is whether you are talking about routing/forwarding =
within the network, or placing the traffic onto tunnels at the edge.

*	You are pretty clear on what you mean, and I am fine with that since =
it fits with my understanding of VPN.
*	Possibly Linda is thinking about how those tunnels are maintained and =
operated to meet the service levels that they offer. That would be (I =
think) out of scope for a BGP VPN

=20

Maybe we can polish the paragraph in question to become=E2=80=A6

=20

Better user experience can be provided by placing traffic flows for an =
application onto tunnels over an underlay network that meet or exceed =
the specified performance criteria (e.g., packets delay, packet lose, =
jitter) for those traffic flows.

=20

Cheers,

Adrian

=20

From: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca> >=20
Sent: 28 July 2020 14:28
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> ; 'Linda Dunbar' =
<linda.dunbar@futurewei.com <mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; =
bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>=20
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>=20
Subject: RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Let=E2=80=99s get back to what SD-WAN is doing: it can steer/forward the =
application traffic based on specified performance criteria value =
requirement. This criteria is set by the subscriber (user) to ensure a =
better experience (by choosing the best tunnel over an underlay). Not =
sure what=E2=80=99s the issue here Adrian? Can we capture this statement =
as per your suggestion and remove the word =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D (or =
routed) and replace it with =E2=80=9Cforward=E2=80=9D (or forwarded)?=20

=20

Regards;

=20

Basil

=20

=20

From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> >=20
Sent: July-28-20 9:19 AM
To: 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca =
<mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca> >; bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>=20
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>=20
Subject: [EXT]RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Thanks to both Linda and Basil,

=20

My response is a little unthought as I am currently following two =
simultaneous sessions (sorry about that), but it seems to me that the =
answers from the two of you seem to be slightly at odds.

=20

Basil is talking about steering whole traffic flows onto tunnels to be =
carried over the network; Linda is talking about routing individual =
packets within the network.

=20

I would still caution you to avoid tying too tightly to the term =
=E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D. A single application may generate =
multiple flows with different performance criteria and you will treat =
the flows differently. Conversely, two applications may generate flows =
that have identical performance criteria.

=20

Thanks,

Adrian

=20

From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >=20
Sent: 28 July 2020 14:05
To: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca> >; =
adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> ; bess@ietf.org =
<mailto:bess@ietf.org>=20
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>=20
Subject: RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Adrian,=20

=20

You said:=20

As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the =
concept of traffic flows being routed according to the identity of the =
application is made complicated by various privacy and security =
concerns, not to mention issues of registering application identities.

=20

The "Application" doesn't necessary mean all the bits in the payload. =
The "Application" can be any criteria that Client has indicated to =
Network Operators, for example the IPsec SA header bits, the TCP/UDP =
port number, the Source Addresses, etc.=20

The network will not alter the forwarding behavior unless there is the =
request from the client to inform the network to forward their traffic =
based on its provided criteria.

=20

This draft, which was written 2 years ago, is indeed to show that BGP =
can be effectively used to =E2=80=9Cdo something similar to APN: that =
is, to classify the service that a particular application-sourced flow =
wants to receive from the network=E2=80=9D.=20

=20

Since SDWAN is over different types of underlay networks, with different =
performance and security aspects, clients may want their specific =
traffic to traverse specific underlay networks, or specific peers.=20

=20

Yes, indeed that the goal is to =E2=80=9C the packets are 'coloured' for =
routing and treatment in the network.=E2=80=9D

=20

There is another draft in IDR to describe the encoding =
=E2=80=9CColor=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CIPsec SA ID=E2=80=9D: =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-discovery/ =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-discovery%2F&data=3D=
02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C44850878a9dc4196eccf08d83304e94c=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315443483105481&sdata=3D=
noR0DNtSG7kVGTzqR98UCO33pMVQLFTvyOfCo1Jf%2BAk%3D&reserved=3D0>=20

=20

Welcome your comments to that draft.=20

=20

I will attend the APN side meeting on Thurs to understand more.=20

=20

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca> >=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:10 AM
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> ; bess@ietf.org =
<mailto:bess@ietf.org>=20
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>=20
Subject: RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Thanks Adrian for your comment.

=20

How about changing the paragraph to something like:

=20

"The application can be routed based on specific performance criteria =
(e.g. packets delay, packet lose, jitter) to provide a better experience =
by choosing a tunnel over an underlay that meets or exceeds the =
specified performance criteria threshold for that application"

=20

Regards;

=20

Basil

=20

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----

From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> >=20

Sent: July-28-20 8:01 AM

To: bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>=20

Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>=20

Subject: [EXT]Thought about "Application Routing" in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

=20

Hi,

=20

As Linda noted in her agenda slot today, =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage version 08 introduced a new paragraph =
in the Introduction that says:

=20

    - The Application Routing can also be based on specific

       performance criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter)

       to provide better application performance by choosing the right

       underlay that meets or exceeds the specified criteria.

=20

Firstly, s/loos/loss/ =F0=9F=98=8A

=20

But I am concerned by the concept of "application routing" and I note =
that the term is not used elsewhere in the document nor is the concept =
expanded upon.

=20

As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the =
concept of traffic flows being routed according to the identity of the =
application is made complicated by various privacy and security =
concerns, not to mention issues of registering application identities.

=20

Fortunately, I suspect that this draft wants to do something similar to =
APN: that is, to classify the service that a particular =
application-sourced flow wants to receive from the network. This may be =
considerably more complex than DSCP, but the concept is the same that =
either a tunnel/pipe/flow is negotiated and established for use by the =
application, or the packets are 'coloured' for routing and treatment in =
the network.

=20

I would suggest two things:

1. Be a lot more clear about what is meant by "application routing" =
possibly even using a different term 2. Have a look at the APN work - =
side meeting on Thursday; see =
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithu=
b.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgith=
ub.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN&data=3D02%7C01%7Clinda.=
dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C44850878a9dc4196eccf08d83304e94c%7C0fee8ff2a3b24=
0189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315443483115477&sdata=3D1SI6sXCb0WQGtpvg=
QxFheQ1KhnOIZhnSDSpbmUA5mvY%3D&reserved=3D0> =
&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C456da5e6ae9e4fc3ff68=
08d832ef2ef0%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315350161504=
633&amp;sdata=3DB4QkVHS%2FkUs%2BWFZgAFQ64BDIhNlIqYxnSrlQNOx%2Bblg%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0 for all the details

=20

Best,

Adrian

=20

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External Email: Please use caution when opening links and attachments / =
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Linda,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thank you =
so much for continuing to try to accommodate me. Please consider this my =
last attempt to fix this unless someone else on the mailing list joins =
in to support my opinion.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I do not =
believe the term =E2=80=9Capplication forwarding=E2=80=9D is either =
defined in the document or particularly meaningful. It is no better than =
=E2=80=9Capplication routing=E2=80=9D in this =
respect.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I think =
that you are trying to refer to =E2=80=9Cindividual traffic flows =
associated with a specific application=E2=80=9D (although you may intend =
to refer to =E2=80=9Cindividual packets=E2=80=9D). And you are either =
trying to describe how traffic is =E2=80=9Cclassified=E2=80=9D onto =
paths/tunnels (as in bullet 3) or trying to indicate how packets may be =
handled within the network (possibly bullet 4), or =
both.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>You also =
have the use of an application identifier as a mechanism to classify =
traffic. If you go down that path you must discuss privacy and =
netneutrality even if all you have to say is that this function takes =
place within a private (enterprise) network where all users are assumed =
to be required to comply with the network operator=E2=80=99s usage =
rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I=E2=80=99ll stop =
now.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Once again, =
thanks for trying to make me happy </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Segoe UI =
Emoji",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>&#128522;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Linda Dunbar =
&lt;linda.dunbar@futurewei.com&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 30 July 2020 =
23:34<br><b>To:</b> Najem, Basil &lt;basil.najem@bell.ca&gt;; =
adrian@olddog.co.uk; bess@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
Thought about &quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Adrian, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thank you very much for the comments and suggestions. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Per your =
suggestions, we have changed the wording to the following. Do you think =
it is clear? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#0070C0'>Here are some key characteristics of =
=E2=80=9CSDWAN=E2=80=9D networks:</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#0070C0'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left:90.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;m=
so-list:l3 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0070C0'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#0070C0'>Augment of transport, which refers to utilizing =
overlay paths over different underlay networks. Very often there are =
multiple parallel overlay paths between any two SDWAN edges, some of =
which are private networks over which traffic can traverse with or =
without encryption, others require encryption, e.g. over untrusted =
public networks. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left:90.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;m=
so-list:l3 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0070C0'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#0070C0'>Enable direct Internet access from remote sites, =
instead hauling all traffic to Corporate HQ for centralized policy =
control. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left:90.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;m=
so-list:l3 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0070C0'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0070C0'>Some =
traffic can be forwarded based on their application IDs instead of based =
on destination IP addresses. For example, placing traffic onto specific =
overlay paths based on their application IDs.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left:90.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;m=
so-list:l3 level1 lfo2'><a name=3D"_Hlk45536369"><![if =
!supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0070C0'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0070C0'>The =
Application forwarding can also be based on specific performance =
criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter) to provide better =
application performance by choosing the right underlay that meets or =
exceeds the specified criteria. </span></a><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#0070C0'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>If it is not clear, can you help to wordsmith it? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Najem, Basil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca">basil.najem@bell.ca</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 28, 2020 9:46 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>; Linda =
Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org">draft-dunbar-b=
ess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: Thought about =
&quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi =
Adrian;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Given the context in =
the document, I=E2=80=99d revert back to the original paragraph (my =
proposed text in the thread) and change =E2=80=9Croute/routed=E2=80=9D =
to =E2=80=9Cforward/forwarded=E2=80=9D.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Regards;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Basil</span><span =
lang=3DEN-CA style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Adrian Farrel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Sent:</b> July-28-20 10:07 AM<br><b>To:</b> Najem, Basil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca">basil.najem@bell.ca</a>&gt;; 'Linda =
Dunbar' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org">draft-dunbar-b=
ess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [EXT]RE: Thought =
about &quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The issue I =
am trying to get at is that the text you have in the draft is unclear =
and probably going to explode.<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul =
style=3D'margin-top:0cm' type=3Ddisc><li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>We have an approximate solution for =
that<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The =
secondary issue is whether you are talking about routing/forwarding =
within the network, or placing the traffic onto tunnels at the =
edge.<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul style=3D'margin-top:0cm' type=3Ddisc><li =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>You are pretty clear on what you =
mean, and I am fine with that since it fits with my understanding of =
VPN.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l2 =
level1 lfo5'><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Possibly Linda =
is thinking about how those tunnels are maintained and operated to meet =
the service levels that they offer. That would be (I think) out of scope =
for a BGP VPN<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Maybe we =
can polish the paragraph in question to =
become=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Better user experience can be provided by placing =
traffic flows for an application onto tunnels over an underlay network =
that meet or exceed the specified performance criteria (e.g., packets =
delay, packet lose, jitter) for those traffic flows.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Najem, Basil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca">basil.najem@bell.ca</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Sent:</b> 28 July 2020 14:28<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>; 'Linda =
Dunbar' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org">draft-dunbar-b=
ess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: Thought about =
&quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Let=E2=80=99s get =
back to what SD-WAN is doing: it can steer/forward the application =
traffic based on specified performance criteria value requirement. This =
criteria is set by the subscriber (user) to ensure a better experience =
(by choosing the best tunnel over an underlay). Not sure what=E2=80=99s =
the issue here Adrian? Can we capture this statement as per your =
suggestion and remove the word =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D (or routed) and =
replace it with =E2=80=9Cforward=E2=80=9D (or forwarded)? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Regards;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Basil<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Adrian Farrel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Sent:</b> July-28-20 9:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Linda Dunbar' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; Najem, Basil &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca">basil.najem@bell.ca</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org">draft-dunbar-b=
ess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [EXT]RE: Thought =
about &quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thanks to =
both Linda and Basil,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>My response =
is a little unthought as I am currently following two simultaneous =
sessions (sorry about that), but it seems to me that the answers from =
the two of you seem to be slightly at odds.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Basil is =
talking about steering whole traffic flows onto tunnels to be carried =
over the network; Linda is talking about routing individual packets =
within the network.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I would =
still caution you to avoid tying too tightly to the term =
=E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D. A single application may generate =
multiple flows with different performance criteria and you will treat =
the flows differently. Conversely, two applications may generate flows =
that have identical performance criteria.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 28 July 2020 14:05<br><b>To:</b> Najem, Basil =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca">basil.najem@bell.ca</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org">draft-dunbar-b=
ess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: Thought about =
&quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Adrian, =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>You said: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><i><span style=3D'color:#00B0F0'>As will be seen from =
the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the concept of traffic =
flows being routed according to the identity of the application is made =
complicated by various privacy and security concerns, not to mention =
issues of registering application =
identities.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The &quot;Application&quot; doesn't necessary mean all =
the bits in the payload. The &quot;Application&quot; can be any criteria =
that Client has indicated to Network Operators, for example the IPsec SA =
header bits, the TCP/UDP port number, the Source Addresses, etc. =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>The network will not =
alter the forwarding behavior unless there is the request from the =
client to inform the network to forward their traffic based on its =
provided criteria.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>This draft, which was written 2 years ago, is indeed =
to show that BGP can be effectively used to =E2=80=9C<i><span =
style=3D'color:#00B0F0'>do something similar to APN: that is, to =
classify the service that a particular application-sourced flow wants to =
receive from the network=E2=80=9D.</span></i> =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Since SDWAN is over different types of underlay =
networks, with different performance and security aspects, clients may =
want their specific traffic to traverse specific underlay networks, or =
specific peers. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes, indeed that the goal is to <span =
style=3D'color:#00B0F0'>=E2=80=9C the packets are 'coloured' for routing =
and treatment in the =
network.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>There is another draft in IDR to describe the encoding =
=E2=80=9CColor=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CIPsec SA ID=E2=80=9D: <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-discovery%2F&=
amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C44850878a9dc4196eccf0=
8d83304e94c%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6373154434831054=
81&amp;sdata=3DnoR0DNtSG7kVGTzqR98UCO33pMVQLFTvyOfCo1Jf%2BAk%3D&amp;reser=
ved=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-dis=
covery/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Welcome your comments to that draft. =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I will attend the APN side meeting on Thurs to =
understand more. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Najem, Basil =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca">basil.najem@bell.ca</a>&gt; =
<br>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:10 AM<br>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a><br>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org">draft-dunbar-b=
ess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: RE: Thought about =
&quot;Application Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks Adrian for your =
comment.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>How about changing the paragraph to something =
like:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&quot;The application can be routed based on specific =
performance criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet lose, jitter) to =
provide a better experience by choosing a tunnel over an underlay that =
meets or exceeds the specified performance criteria threshold for that =
application&quot;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Regards;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Basil<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>From: Adrian Farrel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: July-28-20 8:01 =
AM<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org">draft-dunbar-b=
ess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: [EXT]Thought about &quot;Application =
Routing&quot; in =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>As Linda noted in her agenda slot today, =
draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage version 08 introduced a new paragraph =
in the Introduction that says:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - The Application Routing can also =
be based on specific<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; performance =
criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, =
jitter)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to provide better =
application performance by choosing the =
right<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; underlay that =
meets or exceeds the specified criteria.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Firstly, s/loos/loss/ <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Segoe UI =
Emoji",sans-serif'>&#128522;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>But I am concerned by the concept of &quot;application =
routing&quot; and I note that the term is not used elsewhere in the =
document nor is the concept expanded upon.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking =
(APN) effort, the concept of traffic flows being routed according to the =
identity of the application is made complicated by various privacy and =
security concerns, not to mention issues of registering application =
identities.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Fortunately, I suspect that this draft wants to do =
something similar to APN: that is, to classify the service that a =
particular application-sourced flow wants to receive from the network. =
This may be considerably more complex than DSCP, but the concept is the =
same that either a tunnel/pipe/flow is negotiated and established for =
use by the application, or the packets are 'coloured' for routing and =
treatment in the network.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
would suggest two things:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>1. Be a lot more clear about what is meant by =
&quot;application routing&quot; possibly even using a different term 2. =
Have a look at the APN work - side meeting on Thursday; see <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fgithub.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN&amp;data=3D02%7C=
01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C44850878a9dc4196eccf08d83304e94c%7C0f=
ee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315443483115477&amp;sdata=3D1=
SI6sXCb0WQGtpvgQxFheQ1KhnOIZhnSDSpbmUA5mvY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FA=
PN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN&amp;amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Clinda.du=
nbar%40futurewei.com%7C456da5e6ae9e4fc3ff6808d832ef2ef0%7C0fee8ff2a3b2401=
89c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315350161504633&amp;amp;sdata=3DB4QkVHS%2F=
kUs%2BWFZgAFQ64BDIhNlIqYxnSrlQNOx%2Bblg%3D&amp;amp;reserved=3D0</a> for =
all the details<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Adrian<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>External Email: Please use caution when opening links =
and attachments / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et =
documents joints<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><hr =
size=3D0 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><strong><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue'>Ext=
ernal Email:</span></i></strong><em><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue'> =
Please use caution when opening links and attachments / =
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style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue'>Cou=
rriel externe:</span></i></strong><em><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue'> =
Soyez prudent avec les liens et documents joints </span></em><span =
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class=3DMsoNormal><strong><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue'>Ext=
ernal Email:</span></i></strong><em><span =
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Please use caution when opening links and attachments / =
</span></em><strong><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue'>Cou=
rriel externe:</span></i></strong><em><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue'> =
Soyez prudent avec les liens et documents joints </span></em><span =
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From nobody Fri Jul 31 04:35:37 2020
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To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, "'Najem, Basil'" <basil.najem@bell.ca>, bess@ietf.org
Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org
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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [bess] Thought about "Application Routing" in draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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So Adrian does not feel like is a lone voice, let me agree publicly that 
the terminology you are using is either wrong or more likely ambiguous 
as to its purpose.  If you really want to use the term, define it 
explicitly please.

Yours,
Joel

On 7/31/2020 4:34 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi Linda,
> 
> Thank you so much for continuing to try to accommodate me. Please 
> consider this my last attempt to fix this unless someone else on the 
> mailing list joins in to support my opinion.
> 
> I do not believe the term “application forwarding” is either defined in 
> the document or particularly meaningful. It is no better than 
> “application routing” in this respect.
> 
> I think that you are trying to refer to “individual traffic flows 
> associated with a specific application” (although you may intend to 
> refer to “individual packets”). And you are either trying to describe 
> how traffic is “classified” onto paths/tunnels (as in bullet 3) or 
> trying to indicate how packets may be handled within the network 
> (possibly bullet 4), or both.
> 
> You also have the use of an application identifier as a mechanism to 
> classify traffic. If you go down that path you must discuss privacy and 
> netneutrality even if all you have to say is that this function takes 
> place within a private (enterprise) network where all users are assumed 
> to be required to comply with the network operator’s usage rules.
> 
> I’ll stop now.
> 
> Once again, thanks for trying to make me happy 😊
> 
> Best,
> 
> Adrian
> 
> *From:*Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
> *Sent:* 30 July 2020 23:34
> *To:* Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca>; adrian@olddog.co.uk; bess@ietf.org
> *Cc:* draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in 
> draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
> 
> Adrian,
> 
> Thank you very much for the comments and suggestions.
> 
> Per your suggestions, we have changed the wording to the following. Do 
> you think it is clear?
> 
> Here are some key characteristics of “SDWAN” networks:
> 
> -Augment of transport, which refers to utilizing overlay paths over 
> different underlay networks. Very often there are multiple parallel 
> overlay paths between any two SDWAN edges, some of which are private 
> networks over which traffic can traverse with or without encryption, 
> others require encryption, e.g. over untrusted public networks.
> 
> -Enable direct Internet access from remote sites, instead hauling all 
> traffic to Corporate HQ for centralized policy control.
> 
> -Some traffic can be forwarded based on their application IDs instead of 
> based on destination IP addresses. For example, placing traffic onto 
> specific overlay paths based on their application IDs.
> 
> -The Application forwarding can also be based on specific performance 
> criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter) to provide better 
> application performance by choosing the right underlay that meets or 
> exceeds the specified criteria.
> 
> If it is not clear, can you help to wordsmith it?
> 
> Linda Dunbar
> 
> *From:*Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca>>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2020 9:46 AM
> *To:* adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>; Linda Dunbar 
> <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com <mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>>; 
> bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
> *Cc:* draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in 
> draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
> 
> Hi Adrian;
> 
> Given the context in the document, I’d revert back to the original 
> paragraph (my proposed text in the thread) and change “route/routed” to 
> “forward/forwarded”.
> 
> Regards;
> 
> Basil
> 
> *From:*Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>>
> *Sent:* July-28-20 10:07 AM
> *To:* Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca>>; 
> 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com 
> <mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>>; bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
> *Cc:* draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* [EXT]RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in 
> draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
> 
> The issue I am trying to get at is that the text you have in the draft 
> is unclear and probably going to explode.
> 
>   * We have an approximate solution for that
> 
> The secondary issue is whether you are talking about routing/forwarding 
> within the network, or placing the traffic onto tunnels at the edge.
> 
>   * You are pretty clear on what you mean, and I am fine with that since
>     it fits with my understanding of VPN.
>   * Possibly Linda is thinking about how those tunnels are maintained
>     and operated to meet the service levels that they offer. That would
>     be (I think) out of scope for a BGP VPN
> 
> Maybe we can polish the paragraph in question to become…
> 
> Better user experience can be provided by placing traffic flows for an 
> application onto tunnels over an underlay network that meet or exceed 
> the specified performance criteria (e.g., packets delay, packet lose, 
> jitter) for those traffic flows.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Adrian
> 
> *From:*Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca>>
> *Sent:* 28 July 2020 14:28
> *To:* adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>; 'Linda Dunbar' 
> <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com <mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>>; 
> bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
> *Cc:* draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in 
> draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
> 
> Let’s get back to what SD-WAN is doing: it can steer/forward the 
> application traffic based on specified performance criteria value 
> requirement. This criteria is set by the subscriber (user) to ensure a 
> better experience (by choosing the best tunnel over an underlay). Not 
> sure what’s the issue here Adrian? Can we capture this statement as per 
> your suggestion and remove the word “route” (or routed) and replace it 
> with “forward” (or forwarded)?
> 
> Regards;
> 
> Basil
> 
> *From:*Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>>
> *Sent:* July-28-20 9:19 AM
> *To:* 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com 
> <mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>>; Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca 
> <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca>>; bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
> *Cc:* draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* [EXT]RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in 
> draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
> 
> Thanks to both Linda and Basil,
> 
> My response is a little unthought as I am currently following two 
> simultaneous sessions (sorry about that), but it seems to me that the 
> answers from the two of you seem to be slightly at odds.
> 
> Basil is talking about steering whole traffic flows onto tunnels to be 
> carried over the network; Linda is talking about routing individual 
> packets within the network.
> 
> I would still caution you to avoid tying too tightly to the term 
> “application”. A single application may generate multiple flows with 
> different performance criteria and you will treat the flows differently. 
> Conversely, two applications may generate flows that have identical 
> performance criteria.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Adrian
> 
> *From:*Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com 
> <mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>>
> *Sent:* 28 July 2020 14:05
> *To:* Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca>>; 
> adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>; bess@ietf.org 
> <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
> *Cc:* draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in 
> draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
> 
> Adrian,
> 
> You said:
> 
> /As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the 
> concept of traffic flows being routed according to the identity of the 
> application is made complicated by various privacy and security 
> concerns, not to mention issues of registering application identities./
> 
> The "Application" doesn't necessary mean all the bits in the payload. 
> The "Application" can be any criteria that Client has indicated to 
> Network Operators, for example the IPsec SA header bits, the TCP/UDP 
> port number, the Source Addresses, etc.
> 
> The network will not alter the forwarding behavior unless there is the 
> request from the client to inform the network to forward their traffic 
> based on its provided criteria.
> 
> This draft, which was written 2 years ago, is indeed to show that BGP 
> can be effectively used to “/do something similar to APN: that is, to 
> classify the service that a particular application-sourced flow wants to 
> receive from the network”./
> 
> Since SDWAN is over different types of underlay networks, with different 
> performance and security aspects, clients may want their specific 
> traffic to traverse specific underlay networks, or specific peers.
> 
> Yes, indeed that the goal is to “ the packets are 'coloured' for routing 
> and treatment in the network.”
> 
> There is another draft in IDR to describe the encoding “Color” or “IPsec 
> SA ID”: 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-discovery/ 
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-discovery%2F&data=02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C44850878a9dc4196eccf08d83304e94c%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315443483105481&sdata=noR0DNtSG7kVGTzqR98UCO33pMVQLFTvyOfCo1Jf%2BAk%3D&reserved=0>
> 
> Welcome your comments to that draft.
> 
> I will attend the APN side meeting on Thurs to understand more.
> 
> Linda Dunbar
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Najem, Basil <basil.najem@bell.ca <mailto:basil.najem@bell.ca>>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:10 AM
> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>; bess@ietf.org 
> <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
> Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: Thought about "Application Routing" in 
> draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
> 
> Thanks Adrian for your comment.
> 
> How about changing the paragraph to something like:
> 
> "The application can be routed based on specific performance criteria 
> (e.g. packets delay, packet lose, jitter) to provide a better experience 
> by choosing a tunnel over an underlay that meets or exceeds the 
> specified performance criteria threshold for that application"
> 
> Regards;
> 
> Basil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk <mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>>
> 
> Sent: July-28-20 8:01 AM
> 
> To: bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
> 
> Cc: draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>
> 
> Subject: [EXT]Thought about "Application Routing" in 
> draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
> 
> Hi,
> 
> As Linda noted in her agenda slot today, 
> draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage version 08 introduced a new paragraph 
> in the Introduction that says:
> 
>      - The Application Routing can also be based on specific
> 
>         performance criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter)
> 
>         to provide better application performance by choosing the right
> 
>         underlay that meets or exceeds the specified criteria.
> 
> Firstly, s/loos/loss/ 😊
> 
> But I am concerned by the concept of "application routing" and I note 
> that the term is not used elsewhere in the document nor is the concept 
> expanded upon.
> 
> As will be seen from the Application Aware Networking (APN) effort, the 
> concept of traffic flows being routed according to the identity of the 
> application is made complicated by various privacy and security 
> concerns, not to mention issues of registering application identities.
> 
> Fortunately, I suspect that this draft wants to do something similar to 
> APN: that is, to classify the service that a particular 
> application-sourced flow wants to receive from the network. This may be 
> considerably more complex than DSCP, but the concept is the same that 
> either a tunnel/pipe/flow is negotiated and established for use by the 
> application, or the packets are 'coloured' for routing and treatment in 
> the network.
> 
> I would suggest two things:
> 
> 1. Be a lot more clear about what is meant by "application routing" 
> possibly even using a different term 2. Have a look at the APN work - 
> side meeting on Thursday; see 
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN&amp;data=02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C456da5e6ae9e4fc3ff6808d832ef2ef0%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315350161504633&amp;sdata=B4QkVHS%2FkUs%2BWFZgAFQ64BDIhNlIqYxnSrlQNOx%2Bblg%3D&amp;reserved=0 
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FAPN-Community%2FIETF108-Side-Meeting-APN&data=02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C44850878a9dc4196eccf08d83304e94c%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637315443483115477&sdata=1SI6sXCb0WQGtpvgQxFheQ1KhnOIZhnSDSpbmUA5mvY%3D&reserved=0> 
> for all the details
> 
> Best,
> 
> Adrian
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> External Email: Please use caution when opening links and attachments / 
> Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et documents joints
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> */External Email:/*/Please use caution when opening links and 
> attachments / /*/Courriel externe:/*/Soyez prudent avec les liens et 
> documents joints /
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> */External Email:/*/Please use caution when opening links and 
> attachments / /*/Courriel externe:/*/Soyez prudent avec les liens et 
> documents joints /
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
> 


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Cc: "'Hu, Jun \(Nokia - US/Mountain View\)'" <jun.hu@nokia.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/iJwnkL2rZ73PYIgmyOaxot6zuo4>
Subject: Re: [bess] IPSec Tunnels and draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn
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Ali:

=20

It is wise to start with the RFC6514 and the =
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation draft.  =20

=20

[WG chair hat on]=20

The tunnel-encapsulation draft has passed general WG LC =E2=80=93 so it =
is inappropriate to call for the request to remove these sections.  The =
WG LC that is currently running is whether to remove the =
=E2=80=9CAS=E2=80=9D field from the tunnel endpoint field, and replace =
it with a reserved field.=20

=20

The implementation page is on:=20

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps%20implem=
entations

=20

If you wish to provide information on the cisco implementation, you are =
welcome to add information on the page.=20

I can call for an update to the page from vendors.

=20

[WG chair hat off[

[Document shepherd hat on]=20

=20

The issue is during the edits the text from RFC6514 from Eric Rosen was =
unclear.  The text was:=20





   It has been suggested that it may sometimes be useful to attach a

   Tunnel Encapsulation attribute to a BGP UPDATE message that is also

   carrying a PMSI (Provider Multicast Service Interface) Tunnel

   attribute [ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6514> RFC6514]. =
 If the PMSI Tunnel attribute specifies an IP

   tunnel, the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute could be used to provide

   additional information about the IP tunnel.  The usage of the Tunnel

   Encapsulation attribute in combination with the PMSI Tunnel attribute

   is outside the scope of this document.

=20

Since the text itself was unclear what additional information could be =
provided, the authors removed it from the draft.=20

=20

As we had not received any feedback about active RFC6514 interactions on =
the list.=20

=20

[document shepherd off]

=20

If you have an implementation of the interaction between the RF6514 and =
tunnel encapsulation, it would be valuable to provide:

=20

a)  either a draft specifying the interaction you wish to IDR WG, or =20

b)  comments that could replace the original the original text.=20

=20

Since the IDR draft has gone through multiple WG LC and a very complete =
review from Alvaro =E2=80=93 so a quick response would be appreciated.   =
IMHO a draft on the interaction between RFC6514 and the =
tunnel-encapsulation draft =E2=80=93 would be the best thing at this =
point.  Let me know if you are interested in working on such a draft.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

=20

From: Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [mailto:sajassi@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 1:54 AM
To: Susan Hares; bess@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'Hu, Jun (Nokia - US/Mountain View)'
Subject: Re: IPSec Tunnels and draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn=20

=20

<added idr@ietf.org>

=20

Sue,

=20

Before getting to the discussions of the three IPsec proposals, there =
are some elements of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-17.txt that I can see =
might have caused some confusions and I=E2=80=99d like to get those =
sorted out first.=20

=20

The tunnel-encap draft specifies sub-tlv for VxLAN, VxLAN GDP, and NVGRE =
in sections 3.2.1, 3.2.2, and 3.2.3. I am not aware of any vendor that =
has implemented these sub-tlvs because the info in these sub-tlv already =
exist in EVPN routes (e.g., MAC addresses, Ethernet Tags, etc.) which =
they have implemented it. Therefore, all the vendors that I am aware of =
use Extended Community  defined in section 4.1  along with EVPN routes =
to signal VxLAN and GENEVE tunnel types. Furthermore, I am not aware of =
anyone using NVGRE encap! So, as the first step, we should remove these =
three sections from the draft if there is no objection.=20

=20

Cheers,

Ali

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 8:30 AM
To: Cisco Employee <sajassi@cisco.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Cc: "'Hu, Jun (Nokia - US/Mountain View)'" <jun.hu@nokia.com>
Subject: IPSec Tunnels and draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn=20

=20

Ali and bess WG:=20

=20

IDR has 3 proposals for IPsec tunnels that impact =
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-17.txt.  As an IDR co-chair/shepherd,  I =
have been discussing these three drafts (Ali and two other authors sets) =
to try to find out if we can have one general solutions.  =20

=20

The discussion has been very fruitful to point up BGP issues of =
interoperability, security, privacy, manageability, and scaling.  For =
example, there is a lack of a clear specification between RFC6514 (PMSI =
tunnel attribute) and the tunnel-encaps draft that specifies how these =
drafts interoperate.  I suspect the bess and idr chairs will need to =
discuss if tunnel-encaps has to address this point.=20

=20

I wrote up my ideas in draft-hares-idr-bgp-ipsec-analysis-00.txt so the =
authors could tell me what I misunderstood.   You=E2=80=99ll find this =
draft stops half way.  I have the rest of the draft written, but I =
wanted feedback from all the author teams before sending it out.=20

=20

After hearing some of the details from the authors, I would like to =
sponsor an IDR interim so we could discuss these issues at length.   If =
you think this is a good idea, please let me know.=20

=20

One other thing=E2=80=A6 unfortunately, I scheduled a set of meetings =
for EDT time after IETF meetings this week.   Your next response will =
occur from 11-16 UTC on Wednesday.=20

=20

Cheerily, Sue=20

=20

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Ali:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>It is wise to start with =
the RFC6514 and the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation =
draft.=C2=A0=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[WG chair hat on] =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The tunnel-encapsulation draft has passed =
general WG LC =E2=80=93 so it is inappropriate to call for the request =
to remove these sections.=C2=A0 The WG LC that is currently running is =
whether to remove the =E2=80=9CAS=E2=80=9D field from the tunnel =
endpoint field, and replace it with a reserved field. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The implementation page =
is on: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps%=
20implementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-tun=
nel-encaps%20implementations</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>If you wish =
to provide information on the cisco implementation, you are welcome to =
add information on the page. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I can =
call for an update to the page from vendors.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>[WG chair =
hat off[<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>[Document shepherd hat on] =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The issue is during the edits the text from RFC6514 =
from Eric Rosen was unclear.=C2=A0 The text was: <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0It has been suggested that it may =
sometimes be useful to attach a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tunnel Encapsulation attribute to a BGP =
UPDATE message that is also<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 carrying a PMSI (Provider Multicast =
Service Interface) Tunnel<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 attribute [<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6514" title=3D""><span =
style=3D'color:#3D22B3'>RFC6514</span></a>].=C2=A0 If the PMSI Tunnel =
attribute specifies an IP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 tunnel, the Tunnel Encapsulation =
attribute could be used to provide<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 additional information about the IP =
tunnel.=C2=A0 The usage of the Tunnel<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encapsulation attribute in combination =
with the PMSI Tunnel attribute<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 is outside the scope of this =
document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Since the =
text itself was unclear what additional information could be provided, =
the authors removed it from the draft. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>As we had =
not received any feedback about active RFC6514 interactions on the list. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>[document shepherd off]<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>If you have =
an implementation of the interaction between the RF6514 and tunnel =
encapsulation, it would be valuable to provide:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>a) =
=C2=A0either a draft specifying the interaction you wish to IDR WG, or =
=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>b) =C2=A0comments that could =
replace the original the original text. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Since the =
IDR draft has gone through multiple WG LC and a very complete review =
from Alvaro =E2=80=93 so a quick response would be appreciated. =
=C2=A0=C2=A0IMHO a draft on the interaction between RFC6514 and the =
tunnel-encapsulation draft =E2=80=93 would be the best thing at this =
point.=C2=A0 Let me know if you are interested in working on such a =
draft. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sue <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [mailto:sajassi@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Friday, July 31, 2020 1:54 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; bess@ietf.org; =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> 'Hu, Jun (Nokia - US/Mountain =
View)'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: IPSec Tunnels and =
draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&lt;added =
idr@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sue,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Before =
getting to the discussions of the three IPsec proposals, there are some =
elements of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-17.txt that I can see might =
have caused some confusions and I=E2=80=99d like to get those sorted out =
first. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The tunnel-encap draft specifies sub-tlv for VxLAN, =
VxLAN GDP, and NVGRE in sections 3.2.1, 3.2.2, and 3.2.3. I am not aware =
of any vendor that has implemented these sub-tlvs because the info in =
these sub-tlv already exist in EVPN routes (e.g., MAC addresses, =
Ethernet Tags, etc.) which they have implemented it. Therefore, all the =
vendors that I am aware of use Extended Community &nbsp;defined in =
section 4.1&nbsp; along with EVPN routes to signal VxLAN and GENEVE =
tunnel types. Furthermore, I am not aware of anyone using NVGRE encap! =
So, as the first step, we should remove these three sections from the =
draft if there is no objection. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Ali<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 8:30 =
AM<br><b>To: </b>Cisco Employee &lt;sajassi@cisco.com&gt;, =
&quot;bess@ietf.org&quot; &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;'Hu, =
Jun (Nokia - US/Mountain View)'&quot; =
&lt;jun.hu@nokia.com&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>IPSec Tunnels and =
draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ali =
and bess WG: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>IDR has 3 proposals for IPsec tunnels that impact =
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-17.txt.&nbsp; As an IDR co-chair/shepherd, =
&nbsp;I have been discussing these three drafts (Ali and two other =
authors sets) to try to find out if we can have one general solutions. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The discussion has been very fruitful to point up BGP =
issues of interoperability, security, privacy, manageability, and =
scaling.&nbsp; For example, there is a lack of a clear specification =
between RFC6514 (PMSI tunnel attribute) and the tunnel-encaps draft that =
specifies how these drafts interoperate. &nbsp;I suspect the bess and =
idr chairs will need to discuss if tunnel-encaps has to address this =
point. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I wrote up my ideas in =
draft-hares-idr-bgp-ipsec-analysis-00.txt so the authors could tell me =
what I misunderstood.&nbsp; &nbsp;You=E2=80=99ll find this draft stops =
half way.&nbsp; I have the rest of the draft written, but I wanted =
feedback from all the author teams before sending it out. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>After hearing some of the details from the authors, I =
would like to sponsor an IDR interim so we could discuss these issues at =
length.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you think this is a good idea, please let me =
know. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>One other thing=E2=80=A6 unfortunately, I scheduled a =
set of meetings for EDT time after IETF meetings this week.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Your next response will occur from 11-16 UTC on Wednesday. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheerily, Sue <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "'Hu, Jun (Nokia - US/Mountain View)'" <jun.hu@nokia.com>
Thread-Topic: IPSec Tunnels and draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn 
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Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 01:18:15 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] IPSec Tunnels and draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn
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