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From: "Wanghaibo (Rainsword)" <rainsword.wang@huawei.com>
To: "draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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Subject: [bess] Mail regarding draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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Hi authors,

 About the section 4.1 BGP Walk Through for Homogeneous SDWAN.
  It shows an example that:
      - MP-NLRI Path Attribute: to indicate multiple routes attached to
     the C-PE2:
         10.1.x.x/16
         VLAN #15
         12.1.1.x/24
     - Tunnel-Encap Path Attribute: to describe the IPsec attributes

 This is a way of associating routea with tunnels, but each route has a lar=
ge amount of information.

  However, there is another way to advertise routes with Tunnel Encapsulati=
on Extend Community attributes, like draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-poli=
cy.
In this method, tunnel information is advertised using independent SAFIs. R=
outes are associated with tunnels based on the Tunnel Encap EC.
Regards,
Haibo

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi authors,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;About the section 4.1 BGP=
 Walk Through for Homogeneous SDWAN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; It shows an example that=
:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;- MP-NLRI Path Attribute: to indicate multiple routes attached to<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the C-=
PE2:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 10.1.x.x/16<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; VLAN #15<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 12.1.1.x/24<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Tunn=
el-Encap Path Attribute: to describe the IPsec attributes<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;This is a way of associat=
ing routea with tunnels, but each route has a large amount of information.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; However, there is anothe=
r way to advertise routes with Tunnel Encapsulation Extend Community attrib=
utes, like draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:10.5pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In=
 this method, tunnel information is advertised using independent SAFIs. Rou=
tes are associated with tunnels based on the Tunnel Encap EC.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:10.5pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Haibo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: "Wanghaibo (Rainsword)" <rainsword.wang@huawei.com>, "draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] Mail regarding draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage
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Haibo,

Thank you very much for the suggestion.

How about using "Color Extended Community"? i.e. Client UPDATE recursive to=
 the node address with "Color Extended Community" attached. And the UPDATE =
for the Node describes the detailed IPsec attributes with the matching Colo=
r Extended Community value.

UPDATE #1:
      - MP-NLRI Path Attribute: to indicate multiple routes attached to
     the C-PE2:
          NextHop: C-PE2
         Prefix:
         10.1.x.x/16
         VLAN #15
         12.1.1.x/24
        Color Extended community: RED

UPDATE #2:

  *   MP-NLRI Path Attribute:
     *   Tunnel-Encap Path Attribute: to describe the IPsec attributes
     *   Color Extended Community: RED


Thank you,

Linda
From: Wanghaibo (Rainsword) <rainsword.wang@huawei.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 9:32 PM
To: draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Mail regarding draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage

Hi authors,

 About the section 4.1 BGP Walk Through for Homogeneous SDWAN.
  It shows an example that:
      - MP-NLRI Path Attribute: to indicate multiple routes attached to
     the C-PE2:
         10.1.x.x/16
         VLAN #15
         12.1.1.x/24
     - Tunnel-Encap Path Attribute: to describe the IPsec attributes

 This is a way of associating routea with tunnels, but each route has a lar=
ge amount of information.

  However, there is another way to advertise routes with Tunnel Encapsulati=
on Extend Community attributes, like draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-poli=
cy.
In this method, tunnel information is advertised using independent SAFIs. R=
outes are associated with tunnels based on the Tunnel Encap EC.

Regards,
Haibo

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Haibo, <o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Thank you very much=
 for the suggestion.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">How about using &#8=
220;Color Extended Community&#8221;? i.e. Client UPDATE recursive to the no=
de address with &#8220;Color Extended Community&#8221; attached. And the UP=
DATE for the Node describes the detailed IPsec attributes with
 the matching Color Extended Community value. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">UPDATE #1: <o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- MP-NLRI Path A=
ttribute: to indicate multiple routes attached to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the C-PE2:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; NextHop: C-PE2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pre=
fix: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 10.1.x.x/16<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; VLAN #15<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 12.1.1.x/24<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Color Extended community: RED<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">UPDATE #2: <o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:-8.25pt;mso-list:l0 lev=
el1 lfo1">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">MP-NLRI Path Attribute: <o:p></o:p></span>=
</li><ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"circle">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:-8.25pt;mso-list:l0 lev=
el2 lfo1">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Tunnel-Encap Path Attribute: to describe t=
he IPsec attributes<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:-8.25pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Color Extended Community: RED<o:p></o:p></=
span></li></ul>
</ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Thank you, <o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Linda <o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> =
Wanghaibo (Rainsword) &lt;rainsword.wang@huawei.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 1, 2020 9:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Mail regarding draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi authors,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;About the section 4.1 BGP Walk Through for Hom=
ogeneous SDWAN.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; It shows an example that:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- MP-NLRI Path A=
ttribute: to indicate multiple routes attached to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the C-PE2:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 10.=
1.x.x/16<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; VLA=
N #15<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 12.=
1.1.x/24<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Tunnel-Encap Path Attribu=
te: to describe the IPsec attributes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;This is a way of associating routea with tunne=
ls, but each route has a large amount of information.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; However, there is another way to advertise ro=
utes with Tunnel Encapsulation Extend Community attributes, like draft-ietf=
-idr-segment-routing-te-policy.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:10.5pt">In this method, tunnel =
information is advertised using independent SAFIs. Routes are associated wi=
th tunnels based on the Tunnel Encap EC.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:10.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Haibo<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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Hi Mankamana

I would like to request a time slot for draft below:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases/

Presentation attached.

Kind Regards

Gyan


On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 12:22 AM Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis=
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> All,
>
> Final agenda for IETF 109 is sent, please send me slot request if you want
> any.  We would be meeting on Thursday of IETF week.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/agenda.html
>
>
>
>
>
> *16:00-18:00*
>
> *Thursday Session III*
>
> Room 5
>
> rtg
>
> bess <https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/bess/about/>
>
> BGP Enabled ServiceS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mankamana
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>


-- 

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>Hi Mankamana</div><div><br></div><div><div dir=3D=
"auto">I would like to request a time slot for draft below:</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases/" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cas=
es/</a></div><br></div><div>Presentation attached.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind Regards=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, O=
ct 24, 2020 at 12:22 AM Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) &lt;mankamis=3D<a href=
=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-8493071701083836428WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">All, <u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Final agenda for IETF=
 109 is sent, please send me slot request if you want any.=C2=A0 We would b=
e meeting on Thursday of IETF week.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"https://da=
tatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/agenda.html" target=3D"_blank">https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/meeting/109/agenda.html</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"1440" styl=
e=3D"width:15in;background:white;border-collapse:collapse">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td nowrap colspan=3D"3" valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-right:none;border-b=
ottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(221,221,221);backgroun=
d:rgb(253,247,216);padding:2.25pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt;text-=
align:right">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Serif&quot;,serif;c=
olor:rgb(34,34,34)">16:00-18:00<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
</td>
<td colspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:n=
one;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(221,221,221);background:rgb(2=
53,247,216);padding:2.25pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Serif&quot;,serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">=
Thursday Session III<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-lef=
t:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(221,221,221);background:rgb(249,249,249);pa=
dding:2.25pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Serif&quot;,serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Roo=
m=C2=A05<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-lef=
t:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(221,221,221);background:rgb(249,249,249);pa=
dding:2.25pt;box-sizing:border-box">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span class=3D"gmail=
-m_-8493071701083836428hidden-xs"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;PT Serif&quot;,serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">rtg</span></span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Serif&quot;,serif;color:rgb(3=
4,34,34)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:n=
one;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(221,221,221);background:rgb(2=
49,249,249);padding:2.25pt;box-sizing:border-box">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Serif&quot;,serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/bess/about/" target=3D"_blank"><=
span style=3D"color:rgb(61,34,179)">bess</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-lef=
t:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(221,221,221);background:rgb(249,249,249);pa=
dding:2.25pt;box-sizing:border-box">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Serif&quot;,serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">BGP=
 Enabled ServiceS<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr height=3D"0">
<td width=3D"326" style=3D"border:none"></td>
<td width=3D"144" style=3D"border:none"></td>
<td width=3D"90" style=3D"border:none"></td>
<td width=3D"90" style=3D"border:none"></td>
<td width=3D"789" style=3D"border:none"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Mankamana <u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=
=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D=
"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-em=
ail" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18px; width: 81px;"></a><b=
r></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS=
&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D=
"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A=
</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=
=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;col=
or:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia=
 Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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--00000000000073184e05b3196cb4--


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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 02:40:35 -0500
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To: BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" <mankamis@cisco.com>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Stephane Litkowski <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>,  IDR List <idr@ietf.org>, grow@ietf.org
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Subject: [bess] Fwd: [E] New Version Notification for draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-06.txt
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--00000000000069f03905b31af213
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Dear, BESS, IDR, GROW

**I have added IDR & GROW to this email as this change benefits greatly
GROW(Global Routing Operations)**

This draft utilizes RFC 5549 next hop updated encoding draft update that is
used today for 4to6 Softwire mesh framework PE-P RR next hop encoding for
eBGP PE-CE peering where the IPv4 AFI 1/1  is stacked ontop of IPv6 AFI
2/1, thus eliminating the need for dual stacking PE-CE edge.  As stated
that RFC 5549 next hop encoding is predominantly used for PE-RR next hop
encoding for SAFI's stacked on IPv6 peer including VPN-IPv4 1/128 and MVPN
1/129.  This draft draws attention to the critical OPEX savings as well as
ensuring that all vendors support RFC 5549 encoding for eBGP PE-CE IPv6
next hop encoding for IPv4 NLRI to ensure the next hop is encoded correctly
per Stephane's updated RFC5549 draft which is almost ready for publication.

We have confirmed with Stepahanie that the RFC 5549 next hop encoding
updated draft works for any BGP peering carrying IPv4 NLRI over IPv6 next
hop so is agnostic of BGP internal versus external peering.

This draft ensures through vendor interoperability testing that the vendor
consortium represented on the IETF supports RFC 5549 next hop encoding for
this particular use case for carrying IPv4 NLRI over an IPv6 next hop in
the PE-CE eBGP peering scenario.  This use case is widespread across any
and all operator networks service providers and enterprises for both "core"
& "data center" and is relevant to any underlay IPv4, IPv6, MPLS, SR-MPLS,
SRv6 as the PE-CE customer edge is the same, but now with this draft there
is no longer dual stacked the edge which now can be "IPv6 Only".   This use
case with IPv4 elimination at the PE-CE edge helps tremendously with
proliferation of IPv6 and makes the entire core / edge now 100% IPv6
transport that can carry both IPv4 & IPv6 payload service overlay label.
This pushes IPv4 to the customer network only in the VPN overlay
encapsulation layer and keeps the transport underlay layer IPv4 Free.

With IPv4 address depletion issues with provisioning especially at large
IXP NAPs, this draft has worldwide benefits for internet service providers
so IPv4 can be 100% eliminated at the  internet transport layer.

For this change to gain traction and adoption across the public internet as
well a private networks we need to ensure that interoperability with the
next hop encoding works and is documented in this draft.

At this time we have one vendor Cisco which Mankamana Mishra is
representing for supporting this effort of support of this feature and
interoperability testing.

I would like to procure POC from each vendor listed below and any that I
may have missed please reply to all on this thread so I can get you added
to the vendor list.

I would like to kickoff  a Design Team for this effort for the Proof of
Concept collaboration between vendors so that we can get the process
started with logistics.

I will be presenting this draft at IETF 109 - BESS WG

!RFC 5549 Update - Ready for Publication
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision/

Appendix A <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-u=
se-cases-06#appendix-A>.
IPv4 NLRI IPv6 Next Hop Vendor Testing

   IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop encoding is supported for all BGP peers
   both iBGP and eBGP.

   This section details the vendor support and interoperability test
   results for router and switch vendors as well as White Box vendors.
A.1 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-case=
s-06#appendix-A.1>.
Router and Switch Vendors Support and Interoperability Test
      Results.

             +-----------------+---------+------------------+
             | Vendor          | Support | Interoperability |
             +-----------------+---------+------------------+
             | Nokia           |         |                  |
             | Arista          |         |                  |
             | Cisco           |   ***   |                  |
             | Ericsson        |         |                  |
             | Extremenetworks |         |                  |
             | HP              |         |                  |
             | Huawei          |         |                  |
             | Juniper         |         |                  |
             +-----------------+---------+------------------+


 Table 1: Vendor Interop


A.2 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-case=
s-06#appendix-A.2>.
White Box Vendors Support and Interoperability Test Results.

        +----------------------------+---------+------------------+
        | Vendor                     | Support | Interoperability |
        +----------------------------+---------+------------------+
        | Cumulus Networks           |         |                  |
        | PICA8                      |         |                  |
        | Pluribus Networks Netvisor |         |                  |
        +----------------------------+---------+------------------+

                     Table 2: White Box Vendor Interop






---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mishra, Gyan S <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>
Date: Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 12:58 AM
Subject: Fwd: [E] New Version Notification for
draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-06.txt
To: Hayabusanew <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>




---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 12:36 AM
Subject: [E] New Version Notification for
draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-06.txt
To: Mankamana Mishra <mankamis@cisco.com>, Jeff Tantsura <
jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Gyan Mishra <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-06.txt
has been successfully submitted by Gyan Mishra and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases
Revision:       06
Title:          IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop Use Cases
Document date:  2020-11-01
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          16
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Abstract:
   As Enterprises and Service Providers upgrade their brown field or
   green field MPLS/SR core to an IPv6 transport such as MPLS LDPv6, SR-
   MPLSv6 or SRv6, Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP)now plays an important role
   in the transition of the core from IPv4 to IPv6 being able to
   continue to support legacy IPv4, VPN-IPv4, and Multicast VPN IPv4
   customers.

   This document describes the critical use case and OPEX savings of
   being able to leverage the MP-BGP capability exchange usage as a pure
   transport allowing both IPv4 and IPv6 to be carried over the same BGP
   TCP session.  By doing so, allows for the elimination of Dual
   Stacking on the PE-CE connections making the peering IPv6-ONLY to now
   carry both IPv4 and IPv6 Network Layer Reachability Information
   (NLRI).  This document now provides a solution for IXPs (Internet
   Exchange points) that are facing IPv4 address depletion at these
   peering points to use BGP-MP capability exchange defined in [RFC5549]
   to carry IPv4 (Network Layer Reachability Information) NLRI in an
   IPv6 next hop using the [RFC5565] softwire mesh framework.




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The IETF Secretariat




--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect & SME*


*Data Center Planning | Common Core | Development & Engineering Lab
ServicesGlobal Technology Services | ITNUC*




*O 240 970-6287M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike Rm 304-D*Silver Spring, MD
20904


*IETF  & ISOC Member since 2015*

https://www.ietf.org/

https://www.internetsociety.org/




--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--00000000000069f03905b31af213
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Dear, BESS, IDR, GROW</div><div><br></div><div>**I ha=
ve added IDR &amp; GROW to this email as this change benefits greatly GROW(=
Global Routing Operations)**</div><div><br></div><div>This draft utilizes R=
FC 5549 next hop updated encoding draft update that is used today for 4to6 =
Softwire mesh framework PE-P RR next hop encoding for eBGP PE-CE peering wh=
ere the IPv4 AFI 1/1=C2=A0 is stacked ontop of IPv6 AFI 2/1, thus eliminati=
ng the need for dual stacking PE-CE edge.=C2=A0 As stated that RFC 5549 nex=
t hop encoding is predominantly used for PE-RR next hop encoding for SAFI&#=
39;s stacked on IPv6 peer including VPN-IPv4 1/128 and MVPN 1/129.=C2=A0 Th=
is draft draws attention to the critical OPEX savings as well as ensuring t=
hat all vendors support RFC 5549 encoding for eBGP PE-CE IPv6 next hop enco=
ding for IPv4 NLRI to ensure the next hop is encoded correctly per Stephane=
&#39;s updated RFC5549 draft which is almost ready for publication.=C2=A0</=
div><div><br></div><div>We have confirmed with Stepahanie that the RFC 5549=
 next hop encoding updated draft works for any BGP peering carrying IPv4 NL=
RI over IPv6 next hop so is agnostic of BGP internal versus external peerin=
g.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>This draft ensures through vendor i=
nteroperability testing that the vendor consortium represented on the IETF =
supports RFC 5549 next hop encoding for this particular use case for carryi=
ng IPv4 NLRI over an IPv6 next hop in the PE-CE eBGP peering scenario.=C2=
=A0 This use case is widespread across any and all operator networks servic=
e providers and enterprises for both &quot;core&quot; &amp; &quot;data cent=
er&quot; and is relevant to any underlay IPv4, IPv6, MPLS, SR-MPLS, SRv6 as=
 the PE-CE customer edge is the same, but now with this draft there is no l=
onger dual stacked the edge which now can be &quot;IPv6 Only&quot;.=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0This use case with IPv4 elimination at the PE-CE edge helps tremendou=
sly with proliferation of IPv6 and makes the entire core / edge now 100% IP=
v6 transport that can carry both IPv4 &amp; IPv6 payload service overlay la=
bel.=C2=A0 This pushes IPv4 to the customer network only in the VPN overlay=
 encapsulation layer and keeps the transport underlay layer IPv4 Free.=C2=
=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>With IPv4 address depletion issues with =
provisioning especially at large IXP NAPs, this draft has worldwide benefit=
s for internet service providers so IPv4 can be 100% eliminated at the=C2=
=A0 internet transport layer.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>For this chang=
e to gain traction and adoption across the public internet as well a privat=
e networks we need to ensure that interoperability with the next hop encodi=
ng works and is documented in this draft.</div><div><br></div><div>At this =
time we have one vendor Cisco which Mankamana Mishra is representing for su=
pporting this effort of support of this feature and interoperability testin=
g.</div><div><br></div><div>I would like to procure POC from each vendor li=
sted below and any that I may have missed please reply to all on this threa=
d so I can get you added to the vendor list.=C2=A0 =C2=A0</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>I would like to kickoff=C2=A0 a Design Team for this effort for the=
 Proof of Concept collaboration between vendors so that we can get the proc=
ess started with logistics.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I will be presen=
ting this draft at IETF 109 - BESS WG</div><div><br></div><div>!RFC 5549 Up=
date - Ready for Publication</div><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision/</a>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div><=
pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;mar=
gin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class=3D"gmail-h2"=
 style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em;font-weight:bold"><h2 style=3D"displ=
ay:inline;font-size:1em"><a class=3D"gmail-selflink" name=3D"appendix-A" hr=
ef=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cas=
es-06#appendix-A" style=3D"color:black;text-decoration-line:none">Appendix =
A</a>.  IPv4 NLRI IPv6 Next Hop Vendor Testing</h2></span>

   IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop encoding is supported for all BGP peers
   both iBGP and eBGP.

   This section details the vendor support and interoperability test
   results for router and switch vendors as well as White Box vendors.

<span class=3D"gmail-h3" style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em;font-weight:=
bold"><h3 style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em"><a class=3D"gmail-selflink=
" name=3D"appendix-A.1" href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mishra-be=
ss-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-06#appendix-A.1" style=3D"color:black;text-dec=
oration-line:none">A.1</a>.  Router and Switch Vendors Support and Interope=
rability Test</h3></span>
      Results.

             +-----------------+---------+------------------+
             | Vendor          | Support | Interoperability |
             +-----------------+---------+------------------+
             | Nokia           |         |                  |
             | Arista          |         |                  |
             | Cisco           |   ***   |                  |
             | Ericsson        |         |                  |
             | Extremenetworks |         |                  |
             | HP              |         |                  |
             | Huawei          |         |                  |
             | Juniper         |         |                  |
             +-----------------+---------+------------------+
</pre><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div><div><pre class=
=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-botto=
m:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> Table 1: Vendor Interop</pre><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margi=
n-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gm=
ail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;=
break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;brea=
k-before:page"><span class=3D"gmail-h3" style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1=
em;font-weight:bold"><h3 style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em"><a class=3D=
"gmail-selflink" name=3D"appendix-A.2" href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-06#appendix-A.2" style=3D"color=
:black;text-decoration-line:none">A.2</a>.  White Box Vendors Support and I=
nteroperability Test Results.</h3></span>

        +----------------------------+---------+------------------+
        | Vendor                     | Support | Interoperability |
        +----------------------------+---------+------------------+
        | Cumulus Networks           |         |                  |
        | PICA8                      |         |                  |
        | Pluribus Networks Netvisor |         |                  |
        +----------------------------+---------+------------------+

                     Table 2: White Box Vendor Interop
</pre><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">

</pre></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarde=
d message ---------<br>From: <strong class=3D"gmail_sendername" dir=3D"auto=
">Mishra, Gyan S</strong> <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.m=
ishra@verizon.com">gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Mon, N=
ov 2, 2020 at 12:58 AM<br>Subject: Fwd: [E] New Version Notification for dr=
aft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-06.txt<br>To: Hayabusanew &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br></di=
v><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <span dir=
=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 12:36=
 AM<br>Subject: [E] New Version Notification for draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri=
-ipv6nh-use-cases-06.txt<br>To: Mankamana Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mank=
amis@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mankamis@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.=
ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@ver=
izon.com" target=3D"_blank">gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com</a>&gt;<br></div><br>=
<br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-06.txt<br=
>
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Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A006<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop Use C=
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Document date:=C2=A0 2020-11-01<br>
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rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&amp;m=3DL0PwAGx0mUNp4TQYiyJ0aU40l3scPHNGMphrJ-PvCHw=
&amp;s=3DxUpzey9TC0t-9MIVKKdrwNCMzskJpjIh2VKnNU5xGb0&amp;e=3D" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps=
-3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdiff-3Furl2-3Ddraft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6n=
h-2Duse-2Dcases-2D06&amp;d=3DDwICaQ&amp;c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRx=
pb6__0PomBTQ&amp;r=3DDnUkF34wu4mqq0UY8nn2rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&amp;m=3DL0=
PwAGx0mUNp4TQYiyJ0aU40l3scPHNGMphrJ-PvCHw&amp;s=3DxUpzey9TC0t-9MIVKKdrwNCMz=
skJpjIh2VKnNU5xGb0&amp;e=3D</a> <br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0As Enterprises and Service Providers upgrade their brown field=
 or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0green field MPLS/SR core to an IPv6 transport such as MPLS LDP=
v6, SR-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MPLSv6 or SRv6, Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP)now plays an importa=
nt role<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the transition of the core from IPv4 to IPv6 being able to<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0continue to support legacy IPv4, VPN-IPv4, and Multicast VPN I=
Pv4<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0customers.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes the critical use case and OPEX savings=
 of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0being able to leverage the MP-BGP capability exchange usage as=
 a pure<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0transport allowing both IPv4 and IPv6 to be carried over the s=
ame BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0TCP session.=C2=A0 By doing so, allows for the elimination of =
Dual<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Stacking on the PE-CE connections making the peering IPv6-ONLY=
 to now<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0carry both IPv4 and IPv6 Network Layer Reachability Informatio=
n<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(NLRI).=C2=A0 This document now provides a solution for IXPs (=
Internet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Exchange points) that are facing IPv4 address depletion at the=
se<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0peering points to use BGP-MP capability exchange defined in [R=
FC5549]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to carry IPv4 (Network Layer Reachability Information) NLRI in=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6 next hop using the [RFC5565] softwire mesh framework.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
</div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartma=
il=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><p><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85=
,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=
=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81"=
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t-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-ser=
if;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"margin:0=
px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;fon=
t-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=
=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect &amp; SME</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-si=
ze:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, s=
erif">Data Center Planning | Common Core | Development &amp; Engineering La=
b Services<br>Global Technology Services | ITNUC</font></i></p><p style=3D"=
font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"geo=
rgia, serif">O 240 970-6287<br>M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike Rm 304=
-D<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD 20904</p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margi=
n:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margi=
n:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font =
face=3D"georgia, serif" color=3D"#0000ff">IETF=C2=A0 &amp; ISOC Member sinc=
e 2015</font></i></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px"=
><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#000000=
">h</font><font color=3D"#0000ff">ttps://www.ietf.org/</font></a></p><p sty=
le=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px"><a href=3D"https://www.int=
ernetsociety.org/" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#0000ff">https://www.in=
ternetsociety.org/</font></a><br></p><p><i style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-s=
ize:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif"><br></font></i></p></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gma=
il_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://=
www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:=
inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/Ver=
izonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px=
;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&=
quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b=
>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:=
13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>=
Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, seri=
f"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;lin=
e-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<=
br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div>=
<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--00000000000069f03905b31af213--


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From: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
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Subject: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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--_000_VI1PR0701MB699130A4E61403E41BF6A373EB100VI1PR0701MB6991_
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Hello,

This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].

Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.

Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.

This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.

Regards,
Matthew and Stephane

[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/





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: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG=
&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>=
for<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D=
"color:black">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post=
 any comments to the BESS working group list.</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">We are also&nbsp;polling for kno=
wledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that=
 IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4=
879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author o=
r a contributor of this document, please respond to this email and indicate=
 whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the =
BESS mailing list. The document will
 not &nbsp;progress without answers from all of the authors and contributor=
s.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disc=
losures against this document.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an auth=
or or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware o=
f any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</=
span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span>poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</sp=
an>for&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span>November 2020.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><span=
 style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1]&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"color:black">
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_VI1PR0701MB699130A4E61403E41BF6A373EB100VI1PR0701MB6991_--


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From: "Christian Schmutzer (cschmutz)" <cschmutz@cisco.com>
To: "Brown, Christopher" <cbrown@ciena.com>
CC: "Christian Schmutzer (cschmutz)" <cschmutz@cisco.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>, "draft-schmutzer-bess-ple.authors@ietf.org" <draft-schmutzer-bess-ple.authors@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-schmutzer-bess-ple-00
Thread-Index: AdauzvbjqnhYXNeMR3qHHoHLsCtkoQCVZ14A
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 14:29:33 +0000
Message-ID: <90DD7FA2-96B0-4A46-AD93-34879FA41802@cisco.com>
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Subject: [bess] Comments on draft-schmutzer-bess-ple-00
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Hello,


We have the following questions and feedback regarding https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-schmutzer-bess-ple-00



Q1: Section 4.2.2 RTP Header



>From the draft,



     "Timestamp values are used in accordance with the rules

      established in [RFC3550].  Frequency of the clock used

      for generating    timestamps MUST be 25 MHz based on a

      local reference."



Does 25MHz provide enough resolution to meet the jitter requirements of hig=
her bit rate signals?  A 25MHz clock provides 40ns of resolution in the tim=
estamp while a 125MHz clock would provide 8ns of resolution.  It is easier =
to filter out steps of 8ns than 40ns when recovering the client clock.



Q2: Section 5. PLE Payload Layer



The suggested default payload sizes for a constant bit rate payload (S5.1) =
is 480 bytes and an ODUk frame aligned payload (S5.2) is 478 bytes.  Should=
 we consider a bigger packet size in each case to lower the effective packe=
t rate and added overhead?  Doubling the default payload size would result =
in the maximum number of 10G clients per 100G link.


Thank you,
Chris
cbrown@ciena.com

Chris Brown | System Design & Development
cbrown@ciena.com<mailto:jdoe@ciena.com> | Building B, 385 Terry Fox Drive |=
 Ottawa, ON K2K 2P5 CA
Direct +1.613.670.2554



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Hello, <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas">We have the following questions a=
nd feedback regarding <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-schmutze=
r-bess-ple-00">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-schmutzer-bess-ple-00</a><=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas">Q1: Section 4.2.2 RTP Header<o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas">From the draft,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;T=
imestamp values are used in accordance with the rules <o:p></o:p></span></p=
re>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;established in [RFC3550].&nbsp; Frequency of the clock used <o:p></o:p><=
/span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;for generating &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;timestamps MUST be 25 MHz based on a <o=
:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;local reference.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas">Does 25MHz provide enough resolut=
ion to meet the jitter requirements of higher bit rate signals?&nbsp; A 25M=
Hz clock provides 40ns of resolution in the timestamp while a 125MHz clock =
would provide 8ns of resolution.&nbsp; It is easier to filter out steps of =
8ns than 40ns when recovering the client clock.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas">Q2: Section 5. PLE Payload Layer<=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas">The suggested default payload siz=
es for a constant bit rate payload (S5.1) is 480 bytes and an ODUk frame al=
igned payload (S5.2) is 478 bytes.&nbsp; Should we consider a bigger packet=
 size in each case to lower the effective packet rate and added overhead?&n=
bsp; Doubling the default payload size would result in the maximum number o=
f 10G clients per 100G link.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">cbrown@ciena.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Chris Brown</span></b><span style=3D"=
font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:red">|</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:gray">System Design &amp; Development</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:jdoe@ciena.com"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:blue">cbrown@ciena.com</span></=
a><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:#1F497D">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:red">|</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,sans-serif;color:purple">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:gray">Building B, 385 Terry Fox Drive
</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:red">|</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,sans-serif;color:purple">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5=
pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray">Ottawa, ON K2K 2P5
 CA<br>
Direct +1.613.670.2554 </span><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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From: Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bess] IETF 109, call for slots
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Hi Mankamana,

We need 15 mins slot to present
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr-00

Thanks,

Sami
> On Oct 23, 2020, at 9:22 PM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) =
<mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> All,=20
> Final agenda for IETF 109 is sent, please send me slot request if you =
want any.  We would be meeting on Thursday of IETF week.
> =20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/agenda.html =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/agenda.html>
> =20
> =20
> 16:00-18:00
>=20
> Thursday Session III
>=20
> Room 5
>=20
> rtg
>=20
> bess <https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/bess/about/>=09
> BGP Enabled ServiceS
>=20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> Mankamana=20
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess =
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Mankamana,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">We need 15 mins slot to present</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-=
sr-00" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-ov=
er-sr-00</a></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Sami<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Oct 23, 2020, at 9:22 PM, Mankamana Mishra =
(mankamis) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">All,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Final agenda for IETF 109 is sent, =
please send me slot request if you want any. &nbsp;We would be meeting =
on Thursday of IETF week.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/agenda.html" =
style=3D"color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/agenda.html</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" =
border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"1440" =
style=3D"width: 15in; background-color: white; border-collapse: =
collapse; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: =
initial initial;"><tbody class=3D""><tr class=3D""><td nowrap=3D"" =
colspan=3D"3" valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); border-top-width: 1pt; =
background-color: rgb(253, 247, 216); padding: 2.25pt; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 15.75pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; text-align: right;"><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11.5pt; font-family: 'PT Serif', serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" =
class=3D"">16:00-18:00<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></b></p></td><td =
colspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); border-top-width: 1pt; =
background-color: rgb(253, 247, 216); padding: 2.25pt; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
15.75pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: 'PT Serif', =
serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=3D"">Thursday Session III<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></b></p></td></tr><tr class=3D""><td =
valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: =
rgb(221, 221, 221); border-top-width: 1pt; background-color: rgb(249, =
249, 249); padding: 2.25pt; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 15.75pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: 'PT Serif', =
serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=3D"">Room&nbsp;5<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p></td><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-style:=
 solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); =
border-top-width: 1pt; background-color: rgb(249, 249, 249); padding: =
2.25pt; box-sizing: border-box; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 15.75pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span class=3D"hidden-xs"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; =
font-family: 'PT Serif', serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" =
class=3D"">rtg</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; =
font-family: 'PT Serif', serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p></td><td colspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(221, 221, =
221); border-top-width: 1pt; background-color: rgb(249, 249, 249); =
padding: 2.25pt; box-sizing: border-box; background-position: initial =
initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 15.75pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; =
font-family: 'PT Serif', serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/bess/about/" style=3D"color: =
rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(61, 34, 179);" class=3D"">bess</span></a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p></td><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-style:=
 solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); =
border-top-width: 1pt; background-color: rgb(249, 249, 249); padding: =
2.25pt; box-sizing: border-box; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 15.75pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: 'PT Serif', =
serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=3D"">BGP Enabled ServiceS<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr height=3D"0" class=3D""><td =
width=3D"326" style=3D"border: none;" class=3D""></td><td width=3D"144" =
style=3D"border: none;" class=3D""></td><td width=3D"90" style=3D"border: =
none;" class=3D""></td><td width=3D"90" style=3D"border: none;" =
class=3D""></td><td width=3D"789" style=3D"border: none;" =
class=3D""></td></tr></tbody></table><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Mankamana<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">BESS mailing =
list</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" style=3D"color: rgb(5, 99, 193); =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">BESS@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" =
style=3D"color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a></div></blockquot=
e></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From nobody Mon Nov  2 10:26:40 2020
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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : SRv6 BGP based Overlay services
        Authors         : Gaurav Dawra
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Ketan Talaulikar
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Bruno Decraene
                          Shunwan Zhuang
                          Jorge Rabadan
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05.txt
	Pages           : 29
	Date            : 2020-11-02

Abstract:
   This draft defines procedures and messages for SRv6-based BGP
   services including L3VPN, EVPN and Internet services.  It builds on
   RFC4364 "BGP/MPLS IP Virtual Private Networks (VPNs)" and RFC7432
   "BGP MPLS-Based Ethernet VPN".


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



From nobody Mon Nov  2 14:30:14 2020
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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP Usage for SDWAN Overlay Networks
        Authors         : Linda Dunbar
                          James Guichard
                          Ali Sajassi
                          John Drake
                          Basil Najem
                          David Carrel
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-01.txt
	Pages           : 29
	Date            : 2020-11-02

Abstract:
   The document describes three distinct SDWAN scenarios and discusses
   the applicability of BGP for each of those scenarios. The goal of
   the document is to demonstrate how BGP-based control plane is used
   for large scale SDWAN overlay networks with little manual
   intervention.

   SDWAN edge nodes are commonly interconnected by multiple underlay
   networks which can be owned and managed by different network
   providers.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
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Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-bfd-02.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Fault Management for EVPN networks
        Authors         : Vengada Prasad Govindan
                          Mudigonda Mallik
                          Ali Sajassi
                          Gregory Mirsky
                          Donald Eastlake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-bfd-02.txt
	Pages           : 22
	Date            : 2020-11-02

Abstract:
   This document specifies proactive, in-band network OAM mechanisms to
   detect loss of continuity and miss-connection faults that affect
   unicast and multi-destination paths (used by Broadcast, Unknown
   Unicast, and Multicast traffic) in an Ethernet VPN (EVPN) network.
   The mechanisms specified in the draft are based on the widely adopted
   Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) protocol.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-bfd/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-bfd-02
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-bfd-02

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https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-evpn-bfd-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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Subject: Re: [bess] IETF 109, call for slots
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Hi Mankamana,

We need 10 mins slot to present the update to : https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/

Thanks, Linda Dunbar


On Oct 23, 2020, at 9:22 PM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis=3D40cisc=
o.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:

All,
Final agenda for IETF 109 is sent, please send me slot request if you want =
any.  We would be meeting on Thursday of IETF week.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/agenda.html<https://nam11.safelink=
s.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fmeetin=
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16:00-18:00
Thursday Session III
Room 5
rtg
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tatracker.ietf.org%2Fgroup%2Fbess%2Fabout%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%=
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BGP Enabled ServiceS



Mankamana
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Mankamana,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We need 10 mins slot to present the update to : <a h=
ref=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/</a> <o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks, Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Oct 23, 2020, at 9:22 PM, Mankamana Mishra (manka=
mis) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">mankamis=
=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All,<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Final agenda for IETF 109 is sent, please send me sl=
ot request if you want any. &nbsp;We would be meeting on Thursday of IETF w=
eek.<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outloo=
k.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fmeeting%2F109%2Fagenda.ht=
ml&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C9a4d64d4871c45f0bbf3=
08d87f49e07a%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C63739930256571309=
7%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha=
WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DI2mE5ooOhgQBzbvemekXsAlF3BwJ47TMw20y9z=
GkAsQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D0"><span style=3D"color:#0563C1">https://datatracke=
r.ietf.org/meeting/109/agenda.html</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:12.0p=
t"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"1440" style=3D"width:15.0in;background:white;border-collaps=
e:collapse;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial in=
itial">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td nowrap=3D"" colspan=3D"3" valign=3D"top" style=3D"border:none;border-to=
p:solid #DDDDDD 1.0pt;background:#FDF7D8;padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25p=
t;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt;text-=
align:right">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
serif;color:#222222">16:00-18:00</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #DDD=
DDD 1.0pt;background:#FDF7D8;padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt;background=
-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;color:#222222"=
>Thursday Session III</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #DDDDDD 1.0pt;back=
ground:#F9F9F9;padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt;background-position:init=
ial initial;background-repeat:initial initial">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;color:#222222">Ro=
om&nbsp;5</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #DDDDDD 1.0pt;back=
ground:#F9F9F9;padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt;box-sizing: border-box;b=
ackground-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span class=3D"hidde=
n-xs"><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;,serif;color:#222222">rtg</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td colspan=3D"2" valign=3D"top" style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #DDD=
DDD 1.0pt;background:#F9F9F9;padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt;box-sizing=
: border-box;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial =
initial">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;color:#222222"><a=
 href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fgroup%2Fbess%2Fabout%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda=
.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C9a4d64d4871c45f0bbf308d87f49e07a%7C0fee8ff2a3b240=
189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637399302565723088%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ=
WIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;=
sdata=3DJGc8yrQfruJwostPTvFU5AEHE%2BSXP%2BkbCJnda4ofgRg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0=
"><span style=3D"color:#3D22B3">bess</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #DDDDDD 1.0pt;back=
ground:#F9F9F9;padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt;box-sizing: border-box;b=
ackground-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;color:#222222">BG=
P Enabled ServiceS</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"326" style=3D"width:244.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td>
<td width=3D"144" style=3D"width:1.5in;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td>
<td width=3D"90" style=3D"width:67.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td>
<td width=3D"90" style=3D"width:67.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td>
<td width=3D"789" style=3D"width:591.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:white">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mankamana<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br=
>
BESS mailing list<br>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#0563C1">BESS@ietf.org</span=
></a><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-=
serif"><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt=
ps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fbess&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cli=
nda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C9a4d64d4871c45f0bbf308d87f49e07a%7C0fee8ff2a3b=
240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637399302565723088%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8=
eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&a=
mp;sdata=3DUAjAjVyN60lya%2BABPel7eBuvHr9L2cxIlX1FiSyFlGU%3D&amp;reserved=3D=
0"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#0563C1">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</span></a><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Yaakov Stein <yaakov_s@rad.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, "cpignata@cisco.comp" <cpignata@cisco.comp>, "naikumar@cisco.com" <naikumar@cisco.com>, "cschmutz@cisco.com" <cschmutz@cisco.com>, "jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com" <jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>, "steven.gringeri@verizon.com" <steven.gringeri@verizon.com>
CC: "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments regarding draft-schmutzer-bess-ple-01
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/ffZk4jo6t71wNSUO2tvinzv852I>
Subject: Re: [bess] Comments regarding draft-schmutzer-bess-ple-01
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From: "Rishabh Parekh (riparekh)" <riparekh@cisco.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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As a co-author, I support adoption of this draft. It enables overlay MVPN/E=
VPN services over SR P2MP construct defined in drafts now adopted by SPRING=
 and PIM WG.

I am now aware of any relevant IPR applicable to this document.

-Rishabh

From: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2020 4:42 AM
To: bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org
Subject: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02

Hello,

This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].

Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.

Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.

This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.

Regards,
Matthew and Stephane

[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/





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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">As a =
co-author, I support adoption of this draft. It enables overlay MVPN/EVPN s=
ervices over SR P2MP construct defined in drafts now adopted by SPRING and =
PIM WG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">I am =
now aware of any relevant IPR applicable to this document.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">-Rish=
abh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;matthew.b=
occi@nokia.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 02, 2020 4:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hello,</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG&nbsp;adoption&=
nbsp;poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>for<span class=
=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=
=3D"color:black">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post any comments t=
o the BESS working group list.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">We are also&nbsp;polling for knowledge of any u=
ndisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that IPR has been d=
isclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5=
378 for more details).</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author or a contributor=
 of this document, please respond to this email and indicate whether or not=
 you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing li=
st. The document will not &nbsp;progress
 without answers from all of the authors and contributors.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against=
 this document.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an author or a contrib=
utor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that =
has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span>poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>for&nbsp;ado=
ption&nbsp;closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span>November 2020.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">[1]&nbsp; </span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"=
color:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-=
mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn=
-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_DM6PR11MB300214554573C5759D5E731DDEEF0DM6PR11MB3002namp_--


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From: "Clarence Filsfils (cfilsfil)" <cfilsfil@cisco.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
Thread-Index: AQHWsRUOBlzHDZGSO0qnOYHWggFo/Km4T4aA
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 18:32:55 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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I support adoption of this document and am now aware of any relevant IPR.

Cheers,
Clarence

From: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 13:42
To: bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org
Subject: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02

Hello,

This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].

Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.

Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.

This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.

Regards,
Matthew and Stephane

[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/





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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">I support adoption =
of this document and am now aware of any relevant IPR.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Cheers,<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Clarence<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;matthew.b=
occi@nokia.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 2, 2020 13:42<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hello,</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG&nbsp;adoption&=
nbsp;poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>for<span class=
=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=
=3D"color:black">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post any comments t=
o the BESS working group list.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">We are also&nbsp;polling for knowledge of any u=
ndisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that IPR has been d=
isclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5=
378 for more details).</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author or a contributor=
 of this document, please respond to this email and indicate whether or not=
 you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing li=
st. The document will not &nbsp;progress
 without answers from all of the authors and contributors.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against=
 this document.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an author or a contrib=
utor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that =
has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span>poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>for&nbsp;ado=
ption&nbsp;closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span>November 2020.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">[1]&nbsp; </span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"=
color:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-=
mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn=
-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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From: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 18:44:17 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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As co-author I Support this draft, needed for P2MP policy.

Thanks
Hooman

From: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 7:42 AM
To: bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org
Subject: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02

Hello,

This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].

Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.

Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.

This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.

Regards,
Matthew and Stephane

[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/





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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">As co-author I Supp=
ort this draft, needed for P2MP policy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Thanks<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Hooman<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;ms=
o-fareast-language:EN-CA">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;=
matthew.bocci@nokia.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 2, 2020 7:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Hello,</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG=
&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>=
for<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"=
EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post=
 any comments to the BESS working group list.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" st=
yle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">We are also&nbsp;polling for kno=
wledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that=
 IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4=
879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author o=
r a contributor of this document, please respond to this email and indicate=
 whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the =
BESS mailing list. The document will
 not &nbsp;progress without answers from all of the authors and contributor=
s.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disc=
losures against this document.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
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<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an auth=
or or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware o=
f any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</=
span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
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st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span>poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</sp=
an>for&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span>November 2020.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1]&nbsp; </span><a href=3D"http=
s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-GB">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-s=
r-p2mp/</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Rishabh Parekh <rishabhp@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 11:50:25 -0800
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To: "Rishabh Parekh (riparekh)" <riparekh=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>,  "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 10:23 AM Rishabh Parekh (riparekh) <riparekh=
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> As a co-author, I support adoption of this draft. It enables overlay
> MVPN/EVPN services over SR P2MP construct defined in drafts now adopted by
> SPRING and PIM WG.
>
>
>
> I am now aware of any relevant IPR applicable to this document.
>

I meant to say: I am NOT aware of any IPR related to this document.


>
> -Rishabh
>
>
>
> *From:* Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 02, 2020 4:42 AM
> *To:* bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org
> *Subject:* WG Adoption and IPR all for
> draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
> [1].
>
>
>
> Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group
> list.
>
>
>
> We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to
> this document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with
> IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
>
>
> If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please
> respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
> relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will
> not  progress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.
>
>
>
> Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.
>
>
>
> If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please
> explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been
> disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>
>
> This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Matthew and Stephane
>
>
>
> [1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 10:23 AM Risha=
bh Parekh (riparekh) &lt;riparekh=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.iet=
f.org">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-4747685039850700348WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
As a co-author, I support adoption of this draft. It enables overlay MVPN/E=
VPN services over SR P2MP construct defined in drafts now adopted by SPRING=
 and PIM WG.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
I am now aware of any relevant IPR applicable to this document.</span></p><=
/div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I meant to say: I am NOT aware =
of any IPR related to this document.</div><div> <br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_=
-4747685039850700348WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
-Rishabh<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11pt"> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:matthew.bocci@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">matthew.bocci@nokia.com</a>=
&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 02, 2020 4:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hello,</span><span style=
=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG=C2=A0adoption=
=C2=A0poll<span class=3D"gmail-m_-4747685039850700348apple-converted-space"=
>=C2=A0</span>for<span class=3D"gmail-m_-4747685039850700348apple-converted=
-space">=C2=A0</span></span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-GB">draf=
t-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><span style=3D"color:black" l=
ang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=
=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post any comments t=
o the BESS working group list.</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN=
-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">We are also=C2=A0polling for knowledge of any u=
ndisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that IPR has been d=
isclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5=
378 for more details).</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-GB"><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author or a contributor=
 of this document, please respond to this email and indicate whether or not=
 you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing li=
st. The document will not =C2=A0progress
 without answers from all of the authors and contributors.</span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against=
 this document.</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an author or a contrib=
utor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that =
has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"gmail-m_-4747685039850700348=
apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>poll<span class=3D"gmail-m_-47476850398=
50700348apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>for=C2=A0adoption=C2=A0closes o=
n Monday 16th<span class=3D"gmail-m_-4747685039850700348apple-converted-spa=
ce">=C2=A0</span>November 2020.</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"E=
N-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><span style=3D"color=
:black" lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">[1]=C2=A0 </span><span style=3D"color:black" la=
ng=3D"EN-GB"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-=
mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf=
t-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-GB">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;w=
ord-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-GB"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

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From: "Arvind Venkateswaran (arvvenka)" <arvvenka@cisco.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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As a co-author, I support adoption of this draft and am not aware of any re=
levant IPR applicable to this document.



-Arvind

________________________________
From: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 4:42 AM
To: bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org
Subject: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02

Hello,

This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].

Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.

Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.

This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.

Regards,
Matthew and Stephane

[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/





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<span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 10pt; line-height: 20px;=
">As a co-author, I support adoption of this draft and</span><span style=3D=
"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 10pt;">&nbsp;am not aware of any relev=
ant IPR applicable to this document.</span></p>
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<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 2, 2020 4:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">Hello,<=
/span><span style=3D"color: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">This email begins a two-weeks =
WG&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</spa=
n>for<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=
=3D"color: black;">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">[1].</span><span style=
=3D"color: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">&nbsp;<=
/span><span style=3D"color: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">Please review the draft and po=
st any comments to the BESS working group list.</span><span style=3D"color:=
 black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">We are also&nbsp;polling for k=
nowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure th=
at IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979,=
 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><span style=3D"color: black;"=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">If you are listed as an author=
 or a contributor of this document, please respond to this email and indica=
te whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying th=
e BESS mailing list. The document will
 not &nbsp;progress without answers from all of the authors and contributor=
s.</span><span style=3D"color: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">Currently, there are no IPR di=
sclosures against this document.</span><span style=3D"color: black;"></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">If you are not listed as an au=
thor or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware=
 of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.=
</span><span style=3D"color: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">This<span class=3D"apple-conve=
rted-space">&nbsp;</span>poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</=
span>for&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"apple-conve=
rted-space">&nbsp;</span>November 2020.</span><span style=3D"color: black;"=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">Regards,</span><span style=3D"=
color: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">Matthew and Stephane</span><sp=
an style=3D"color: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">[1]&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">
</span><span style=3D"color: black;"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/" data-ogsc=3D"" style=3D"">https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: black;">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color: black;">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; tex=
t-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: black;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: black;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_BYAPR11MB31897C9D53013037155BB475D2EF0BYAPR11MB3189namp_--


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From: "Clarence Filsfils (cfilsfil)" <cfilsfil@cisco.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 20:10:12 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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Please excuse the typo:

I support adoption of this document and am not aware of any relevant IPR.

Cheers,
Clarence

From: Clarence Filsfils (cfilsfil) <cfilsfil@cisco.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 19:33
To: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; bess@ietf.org; d=
raft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2m=
p-02

I support adoption of this document and am now aware of any relevant IPR.

Cheers,
Clarence

From: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com<mailto:matthew.b=
occi@nokia.com>>
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 13:42
To: bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2m=
p@ietf.org<mailto:draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Subject: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02

Hello,

This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].

Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.

Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.

This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.

Regards,
Matthew and Stephane

[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/





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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Please excuse the t=
ypo:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">I support adoption =
of this document and am not aware of any relevant IPR.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Cheers,<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Clarence<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> Clarence Filsfils (cfilsfil) &lt;cfilsfil=
@cisco.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2020 19:33<br>
<b>To:</b> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;matthew.bocci@nokia.com&gt;; bes=
s@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn=
-sr-p2mp-02<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">I support adoption =
of this document and am now aware of any relevant IPR.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Cheers,<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Clarence<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:matthew.bocci@nokia.com">matthew.bocci@nokia.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 2, 2020 13:42<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"m=
ailto:draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org">
draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hello,</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG&nbsp;adoption&=
nbsp;poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>for<span class=
=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=
=3D"color:black">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post any comments t=
o the BESS working group list.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">We are also&nbsp;polling for knowledge of any u=
ndisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that IPR has been d=
isclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5=
378 for more details).</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author or a contributor=
 of this document, please respond to this email and indicate whether or not=
 you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing li=
st. The document will not &nbsp;progress
 without answers from all of the authors and contributors.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against=
 this document.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an author or a contrib=
utor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that =
has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span>poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>for&nbsp;ado=
ption&nbsp;closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span>November 2020.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">[1]&nbsp; </span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"=
color:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-=
mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn=
-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 20:15:02 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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Support.

Regards,
Jakob.

From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 4:42 AM
To: bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org
Subject: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02

Hello,

This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].

Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.

Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.

This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.

Regards,
Matthew and Stephane

[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/





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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#441D61;mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN">Support.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#441D61;mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#441D61;mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#441D61;mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN">Jakob.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#441D61;mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
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0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-langu=
age:ZH-CN">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-lang=
uage:ZH-CN"> BESS &lt;bess-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 2, 2020 4:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp-02<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hello,</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG&nbsp;adoption&=
nbsp;poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>for<span class=
=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=
=3D"color:black">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post any comments t=
o the BESS working group list.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
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<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">We are also&nbsp;polling for knowledge of any u=
ndisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that IPR has been d=
isclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5=
378 for more details).</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author or a contributor=
 of this document, please respond to this email and indicate whether or not=
 you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing li=
st. The document will not &nbsp;progress
 without answers from all of the authors and contributors.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against=
 this document.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an author or a contrib=
utor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that =
has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span>poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>for&nbsp;ado=
ption&nbsp;closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span>November 2020.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">[1]&nbsp; </span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"=
color:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-=
mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn=
-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/P0CVrYpO4YGJILcoUAY9YdHsojI>
Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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In addition I am not aware of any relevant IPR applicable to this document

Thanks
Hooman
From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 1:44 PM
To: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; bess@ietf.org; d=
raft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2m=
p-02

As co-author I Support this draft, needed for P2MP policy.

Thanks
Hooman

From: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com<mailto:matthew.b=
occi@nokia.com>>
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 7:42 AM
To: bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2m=
p@ietf.org<mailto:draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Subject: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02

Hello,

This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].

Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.

Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.

This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.

Regards,
Matthew and Stephane

[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/





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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">In addition I am </=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">not aware of any relevant IPR applica=
ble to this document</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Thanks<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Hooman<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;ms=
o-fareast-language:EN-CA">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Otta=
wa) &lt;hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2020 1:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;matthew.bocci@nokia.com&gt;; bes=
s@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn=
-sr-p2mp-02<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">As co-author I Supp=
ort this draft, needed for P2MP policy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Thanks<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Hooman<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;ms=
o-fareast-language:EN-CA">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:matthew.bocci@nokia.com">matthew.bocci@nokia.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 2, 2020 7:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"m=
ailto:draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org">
draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Hello,</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG=
&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>=
for<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"=
EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post=
 any comments to the BESS working group list.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" st=
yle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">We are also&nbsp;polling for kno=
wledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that=
 IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4=
879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author o=
r a contributor of this document, please respond to this email and indicate=
 whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the =
BESS mailing list. The document will
 not &nbsp;progress without answers from all of the authors and contributor=
s.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disc=
losures against this document.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an auth=
or or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware o=
f any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</=
span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span>poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</sp=
an>for&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span>November 2020.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1]&nbsp; </span><a href=3D"http=
s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-GB">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-s=
r-p2mp/</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
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From: "Voyer, Daniel" <daniel.voyer@bell.ca>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXT]WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/863mWZz1R49mRwxYk5FHxEAlkOc>
Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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Support as co-author.
Not aware of any IPR.

Thanks.
Jeffrey

From: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 7:42 AM
To: bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org
Subject: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02

Hello,

This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].

Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not pr=
ogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.

Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.

This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.

Regards,
Matthew and Stephane

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/<h=
ttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bes=
s-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!XsculMVSot9X-k8DfjpmgZdHLfG9-lNwVwuLCg=
AbiQ3s0iUl_e9MvWRH8S4QEkdG$>






Juniper Business Use Only

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN">Support as co-author.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN">Not aware of any IPR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN">Thanks.<br>
Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-langu=
age:ZH-CN">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-lang=
uage:ZH-CN"> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;matthew.bocci@nokia.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 2, 2020 7:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hello,</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll<=
span class=3D"apple-converted-space">
</span>for<span class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post any comments t=
o the BESS working group list.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">We are also polling for knowledge of any undisc=
losed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that IPR has been disclo=
sed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 f=
or more details).</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author or a contributor=
 of this document, please respond to this email and indicate whether or not=
 you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing li=
st. The document will not progress
 without answers from all of the authors and contributors.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against=
 this document.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an author or a contrib=
utor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that =
has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </sp=
an>poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">
</span>for adoption closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"apple-converted-spa=
ce"> </span>
November 2020.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">[1] </span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:=
black"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/d=
oc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!XsculMVSot9X-k8Dfjp=
mgZdHLfG9-lNwVwuLCgAbiQ3s0iUl_e9MvWRH8S4QEkdG$">https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
CC: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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From: "Kundu, Tanmoy (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <tanmoy.kundu@nokia.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 07:20:52 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/TYxCsthz0Iz_jGUG8sTiRRt4Cs4>
Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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I support for the adoption.

Thanks,
Tanmoy
________________________________
From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)=
 <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 4:42 AM
To: bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf=
.org <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Subject: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02


Hello,



This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].



Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.



We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).



If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.



Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.



If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.



This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.



Regards,

Matthew and Stephane



[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/









--_000_BN7PR08MB555425CCEAFB0B479F67F4A498EE0BN7PR08MB5554namp_
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I support for the adoption. <br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;=
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<br>
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<div></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Tanmoy<br>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> BESS &lt;bess-bounces=
@ietf.org&gt; on behalf of Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;matthew.bocci@no=
kia.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 2, 2020 4:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn=
-sr-p2mp@ietf.org &lt;draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp-02</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Hello,<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG=
&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;poll<span class=3D"x_apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</spa=
n>for<span class=3D"x_apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post=
 any comments to the BESS working group list.</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
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<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">We are also&nbsp;polling for kno=
wledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that=
 IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4=
879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><span style=3D"color:black"></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author o=
r a contributor of this document, please respond to this email and indicate=
 whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the =
BESS mailing list. The document will
 not &nbsp;progress without answers from all of the authors and contributor=
s.</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disc=
losures against this document.</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an auth=
or or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware o=
f any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</=
span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"x_apple-conve=
rted-space">&nbsp;</span>poll<span class=3D"x_apple-converted-space">&nbsp;=
</span>for&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"x_apple-c=
onverted-space">&nbsp;</span>November 2020.</span><span style=3D"color:blac=
k"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><span=
 style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1]&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"color:black">
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Kundu, Tanmoy (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <tanmoy.kundu@nokia.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/3gLPrzWz08wo0QFwUwRw2k2nLq0>
Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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I support for the adoption and I am not aware of any IPR.

Thanks,
Tanmoy
________________________________
From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)=
 <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 4:42 AM
To: bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf=
.org <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Subject: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02


Hello,



This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].



Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.



We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).



If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.



Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.



If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.



This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.



Regards,

Matthew and Stephane



[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/









--_000_BN7PR08MB555480DEA0789749A627A8A498EE0BN7PR08MB5554namp_
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I support for the adoption and I am not aware of any IPR.<br>
</div>
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Thanks,</div>
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t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Tanmoy<br>
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<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> BESS &lt;bess-bounces=
@ietf.org&gt; on behalf of Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;matthew.bocci@no=
kia.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 2, 2020 4:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn=
-sr-p2mp@ietf.org &lt;draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp-02</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
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<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap:b=
reak-word">
<div class=3D"x_WordSection1">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Hello,<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG=
&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;poll<span class=3D"x_apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</spa=
n>for<span class=3D"x_apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post=
 any comments to the BESS working group list.</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">We are also&nbsp;polling for kno=
wledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that=
 IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4=
879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><span style=3D"color:black"></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author o=
r a contributor of this document, please respond to this email and indicate=
 whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the =
BESS mailing list. The document will
 not &nbsp;progress without answers from all of the authors and contributor=
s.</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disc=
losures against this document.</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an auth=
or or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware o=
f any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</=
span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"x_apple-conve=
rted-space">&nbsp;</span>poll<span class=3D"x_apple-converted-space">&nbsp;=
</span>for&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"x_apple-c=
onverted-space">&nbsp;</span>November 2020.</span><span style=3D"color:blac=
k"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><span=
 style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1]&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"color:black">
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal; orphans:auto; t=
ext-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_BN7PR08MB555480DEA0789749A627A8A498EE0BN7PR08MB5554namp_--


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From: "Ehsan Hemmati (ehemmati)" <ehemmati@cisco.com>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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As a contributor, I support adoption of this document. Also, I am not aware=
 of any relevant IPR.


Best,
Ehsan




________________________________
From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf =
of Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com<mailto:matthew.bocc=
i@nokia.com>>
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 4:42 AM
To: bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org> <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org=
>>; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org<mailto:draft-parekh-bess-m=
vpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org> <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org<ma=
ilto:draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>>
Subject: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02


Hello,



This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].



Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.



We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).



If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.



Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.



If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.



This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.



Regards,

Matthew and Stephane



[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/




--_000_CF7DF14038EB40CFAC17C2AA536C2586ciscocom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:=
 after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">As a contributor, I support adoption of this document. Also=
, I am not aware of any relevant IPR.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Best,</div>
<div class=3D"">Ehsan</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<pre class=3D"wordwrap">________________________________
From: BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org" class=3D"">bess-bou=
nces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:matthew.bocci@nokia.com" class=3D"">matthew.bocci@nokia.com</a>&=
gt;
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 4:42 AM
To: <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" class=3D"">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" class=3D"">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" class=3D"">draft-parekh-=
bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-parekh-bess=
-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" class=3D"">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp=
@ietf.org</a>&gt;
Subject: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02


Hello,



This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].



Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.



We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).



If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.



Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.



If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.



This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.



Regards,

Matthew and Stephane



[1]  <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evp=
n-sr-p2mp/" rel=3D"nofollow" class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a>

</pre>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CF7DF14038EB40CFAC17C2AA536C2586ciscocom_--


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From: "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" <mankamis@cisco.com>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: preliminary   bess agenda for IETF 109 posted 
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Subject: [bess] preliminary   bess agenda for IETF 109 posted
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From: Jayant KOTALWAR <jkotalwar@hotmail.com>
To: "Kundu, Tanmoy (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <tanmoy.kundu@nokia.com>, "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 23:47:21 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/7ZbaDDdqgqnNSBitspKGekX7G_g>
Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I support for the adoption and not aware of any IPR.

--Jayant
________________________________
From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Kundu, Tanmoy (Nokia - US/M=
ountain View) <tanmoy.kundu@nokia.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 9:59 AM
To: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; bess@ietf.org <b=
ess@ietf.org>; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org <draft-parekh-b=
ess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn=
-sr-p2mp-02

I support for the adoption and I am not aware of any IPR.

Thanks,
Tanmoy
________________________________
From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)=
 <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 4:42 AM
To: bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf=
.org <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Subject: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02


Hello,



This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].



Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.



We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).



If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.



Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.



If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.



This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.



Regards,

Matthew and Stephane



[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/









--_000_SJ0PR03MB563242CCDC4C06655FED5D0FBCED0SJ0PR03MB5632namp_
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana, Geneva, sans-s=
erif;color:black;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
I support for the adoption and not aware of any IPR.<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &=
quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-syste=
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:rgb(32, 31, 30);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
<br>
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</div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
--Jayant</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> BESS &lt;bess-bounces=
@ietf.org&gt; on behalf of Kundu, Tanmoy (Nokia - US/Mountain View) &lt;tan=
moy.kundu@nokia.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 5, 2020 9:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;matthew.bocci@nokia.com&gt;; bes=
s@ietf.org &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.=
org &lt;draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mv=
pn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif; font-size:10pt; color:=
rgb(0,0,0)">
I support for the adoption and I am not aware of any IPR.<br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif; font-size:10pt; color:=
rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_Signature">
<div>
<div></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Tanmoy<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_appendonsend"></div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" =
color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> BESS &lt;bess-bounc=
es@ietf.org&gt; on behalf of Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;matthew.bocci@=
nokia.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 2, 2020 4:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;; draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn=
-sr-p2mp@ietf.org &lt;draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp-02</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div class=3D"x_x_WordSection1">
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Hello,</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG=
&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;poll<span class=3D"x_x_apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</s=
pan>for<span class=3D"x_x_apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"color:black">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post=
 any comments to the BESS working group list.</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">We are also&nbsp;polling for kno=
wledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that=
 IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4=
879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><span style=3D"color:black"></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author o=
r a contributor of this document, please respond to this email and indicate=
 whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the =
BESS mailing list. The document will
 not &nbsp;progress without answers from all of the authors and contributor=
s.</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disc=
losures against this document.</span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an auth=
or or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware o=
f any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</=
span><span style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"x_x_apple-con=
verted-space">&nbsp;</span>poll<span class=3D"x_x_apple-converted-space">&n=
bsp;</span>for&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"x_x_a=
pple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>November 2020.</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><span=
 style=3D"color:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1]&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"color:black">
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;mar=
gin: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
To: <bess@ietf.org>, <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking@ietf.org>
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Subject: [bess] WGLC and IPR poll on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03
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Hello WG,

 

This email starts a three weeks Working Group Last Call on
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03 [1]. We add an additional week
due to the upcoming IETF meeting.

 

This poll runs until * the 30th Of  November *.

 

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to
this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please
respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from
all the Authors and Contributors. 

There is currently no IPR disclosed.

 

If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly
respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in
conformance with IETF rules.

 

We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2]. 

 

Thank you,

Stephane & Matthew

 

[1]
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking/

[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw

 

 


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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hello WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>This email starts a three weeks =
Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03 =
[1]. We add an additional week due to the upcoming IETF =
meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>This poll runs until * the 30<sup>th</sup> Of =
&nbsp;November *.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>We are also polling for knowledge of any =
undisclosed IPR that applies to this Document, to ensure that IPR has =
been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, =
3669 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of =
this Document please respond to this email and indicate whether or not =
you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't =
progress without answers from all the Authors and =
Contributors.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>There is currently no IPR =
disclosed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>If you are not listed as an Author or a =
Contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any =
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF =
rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>We are also polling for any existing implementation =
as per [2]. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>Stephane &amp; Matthew<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>[1] </span><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-inter=
working/"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-=
interworking/</span></a><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>[2] <a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdk=
jqDpw" =
target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vP=
C4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01D6B679.7C6D8A60--


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From: "Hassen, Clayton" <Clayton.Hassen@bell.ca>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXT]WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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To: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
Cc: "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, Zhaohui Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>,  "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On October 13, 2020 at 2:55:07 AM, Ali Sajassi wrote:


Ali:

Hi!


> Thanks very much for your comments and sorry for the delay, please refer =
to
> my replies marked with [AS].

I looked at the replies and I'm clearing my DISCUSS.

There is one outstanding issue that I trust you to complete before
Martin approves: =C2=A0The reference to draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps needs
to be Normative. =C2=A0Ben has this same point listed in his current
DISCUSS [1].

Thank you for also addressing the questions from John Scudder about
multiple MAC ECs.


Alvaro.


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From: Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 18:09:36 -0800
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Subject: Fwd: [bess] New Extended Community for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb
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---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [bess] New Extended Community for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal=
-lb
To: Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, Jeff Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, bess@iet=
f.org <bess@ietf.org>



Hi John, Jeff,

FYI - latest revision of this draft corrects the BW attribute to be transit=
ive inline with Ali's explanation below: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/dra=
ft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-07.txt. Please do let us know if there are any =
further concerns.

4.2.  EVPN Link Bandwidth Extended Community
=20
   A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined to signal
   local ES link bandwidth to remote PEs.  This extended-community is
   defined of type 0x06 (EVPN).  IANA is requested to assign a sub-type
   value of 0x10 for the EVPN Link bandwidth extended community, of type
   0x06 (EVPN).  EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined as
   transitive.
=20
   Link bandwidth extended community described in [BGP-LINK-BW] for
   layer 3 VPNs was considered for re-use here.  This Link bandwidth
   extended community is however defined in [BGP-LINK-BW] as optional
   non-transitive.  Since it is not possible to change deployed behavior
   of extended-community defined in [BGP-LINK-BW], it was decided to
   define a new one.  In inter-AS scenarios, link-bandwidth needs to be
   signaled to eBGP neighbors.  When signaled across AS boundary, this
   attribute can be used to achieve optimal load-balancing towards
   source PEs from a different AS.  This is applicable both when next-
   hop is changed or unchanged across AS boundaries.


Thanks,
Neeraj

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:14 PM Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi=3D40cisco.com=
@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
John, Jeff:

=20

During the presentation of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb -03 at the BESS =
WG meeting, you had a question/concern regarding why we are defining a new E=
C if we are doing conditional transitive. First, I=E2=80=99d like to make a correc=
tion to the preso by saying that the transitivity is not conditional and we =
will correct this in the next rev of the draft. So, the EC is simply transit=
ive at all time. Given the EC defined in draft-ietf-idr-link-bandwidth-07.tx=
t is non-transitive, we cannot use this EC for our application. That=E2=80=99s why=
 we are defining a new one.=20

=20

Cheers,

Ali

=20
_______________________________________________
BESS mailing list
BESS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess


--B_3687790205_1525677902
Content-type: text/html;
	charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"></=
head><body><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <=
strong class=3D"gmail_sendername" dir=3D"auto">Neeraj Malhotra</strong> <sp=
an dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:neeraj.ietf@gmail.com">neeraj.ietf@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 11:24 AM<br>Subject: R=
e: [bess] New Extended Community for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb<br>To:=
 Ali Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;sajassi=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ie=
tf.org">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Cc: John Scudder &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt;, Jeff Haas &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:jhaas@juniper.net">jhaas@juniper.net</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mailto:=
bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@=
ietf.org</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>Hi John, Jeff,</div><div><br></div><div=
>FYI - latest revision of this draft corrects the BW attribute to be transi=
tive inline with Ali's explanation below:&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.=
org/archive/id/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-07.txt" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-07.txt</a>. P=
lease do let us know if there are any further concerns.</div><div><br></div=
><div><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">4.2.&nbsp; EVPN Link Bandwidth Extend=
ed Community<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-s=
ize:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span>&nbsp;=
</span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; A new EVPN Link B=
andwidth extended community is defined to signal<span></span></pre><pre sty=
le=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; local ES link bandwidth to remote PEs.=
&nbsp; This extended-community is<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0i=
n 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb=
(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; defined of type 0x06 (EVPN).&nbsp; IANA is requested =
to assign a sub-type<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001p=
t;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbs=
p;&nbsp; value of 0x10 for the EVPN Link bandwidth extended community, of t=
ype<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; 0x06 (EV=
PN).&nbsp; EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined as<span></span=
></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; transitive.<span></span=
></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span>&nbsp;</span></pre><pre style=
=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&qu=
ot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; Link bandwidth extended community descri=
bed in [BGP-LINK-BW] for<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0=
001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; layer 3 VPNs was considered for re-use here.&nbsp; This Link b=
andwidth<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:=
10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; ext=
ended community is however defined in [BGP-LINK-BW] as optional<span></span=
></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; non-transitive.&nbsp; S=
ince it is not possible to change deployed behavior<span></span></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier N=
ew&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; of extended-community defined in [B=
GP-LINK-BW], it was decided to<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0=
in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,=
0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; define a new one.&nbsp; In inter-AS scenarios, link-band=
width needs to be<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&=
nbsp; signaled to eBGP neighbors.&nbsp; When signaled across AS boundary, t=
his<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; attribut=
e can be used to achieve optimal load-balancing towards<span></span></pre><=
pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; source PEs from a different AS.=
&nbsp; This is applicable both when next-<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"m=
argin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; hop is changed or unchanged across AS boundar=
ies.</pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0i=
n 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb=
(0,0,0)"><br></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:-webkit-standard;font-size:medium;white-space:normal">Thanks,</span></pr=
e><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standa=
rd;font-size:medium;white-space:normal">Neeraj</span></pre></div></div></di=
v></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmai=
l_attr">On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:14 PM Ali Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;sajassi=
=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.=
com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style=
:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN=
-US"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">John, Jeff:=
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11=
pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11pt">During the presentation of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb -0=
3 at the BESS WG meeting, you had a question/concern regarding why we are d=
efining a new EC if we are doing conditional transitive. First, I=E2=80=99d=
 like to make a correction to the preso by saying that the transitivity is =
not conditional and we will correct this in the next rev of the draft. So, =
the EC is simply transitive at all time. Given the EC defined in draft-ietf=
-idr-link-bandwidth-07.txt is non-transitive, we cannot use this EC for our=
 application. That=E2=80=99s why we are defining a new one. <u></u><u></u><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbs=
p;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">C=
heers,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11pt">Ali<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p></div></div>_______________=
________________________________<br>BESS mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:=
BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br><a href=3D"https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br></blockquote></div></div></di=
v></body></html>

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Hi,

The document is ready to progress.
I=92m not aware of any related IPR.

Thank you.
Jorge

From: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:20 AM
To: bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking@=
ietf.org <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking@ietf.org>
Subject: WGLC and IPR poll on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03
Hello WG,

This email starts a three weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-=
evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03 [1]. We add an additional week due to the upcomi=
ng IETF meeting.

This poll runs until * the 30th Of  November *.


We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please res=
pond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevan=
t undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from all the=
 Authors and Contributors.

There is currently no IPR disclosed.



If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.



We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].



Thank you,

Stephane & Matthew

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworkin=
g/
[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw



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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">The document is ready to progress.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">I=92m not aware of any related IPR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Jorge<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com &lt;slitkows.iet=
f@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:20 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>bess@ietf.org &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;, draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-=
interworking@ietf.org &lt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking@ietf.org&=
gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>WGLC and IPR poll on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworkin=
g-03<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Hello WG,<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">This email starts a thr=
ee weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking=
-03 [1]. We add an additional week due to the upcoming IETF meeting.<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">This poll runs until * =
the 30<sup>th</sup> Of &nbsp;November *.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please res=
pond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevan=
t undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from all the=
 Authors and Contributors.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
There is currently no IPR disclosed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:108.0pt">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:108.0pt">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2]. <o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
Stephane &amp; Matthew<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">[1] <a href=3D"https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking/</=
a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">[2] <a href=3D"https://=
mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw" target=3D"_=
blank">
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" <mankamis@cisco.com>
To: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] WGLC and IPR poll on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03
Thread-Index: Ada2cQqHmeUFHrrzRnGAd9n1YWeRAAAwJV8A
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 15:18:03 +0000
Message-ID: <C5FD9101-5C3E-43BD-B218-C5A1BF672AC8@cisco.com>
References: <00a501d6b671$1aa8ad30$4ffa0790$@gmail.com>
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WGLC and IPR poll on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/FA50Hb5rDo9i_n2F5tX69u2W3xw>
Subject: Re: [bess] WGLC and IPR poll on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03
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Support and I'm not aware of any IPR

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 3:20 AM
To: bess@ietf.org; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking@ietf.org
Subject: WGLC and IPR poll on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

Hello WG,

This email starts a three weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-=
evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03 [1]. We add an additional week due to the upcomi=
ng IETF meeting.

This poll runs until * the 30th Of  November *.


We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please res=
pond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevan=
t undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from all the=
 Authors and Contributors.

There is currently no IPR disclosed.



If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.



We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].



Thank you,

Stephane & Matthew

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworkin=
g/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-b=
ess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Udv1wWTrY2Bgrrn0X26A27BpuOpWNk=
_oCga90EDbojQIcSToUq32-XvDIG8Isnk$>
[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw<=
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1=
tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Udv1wWTrY2Bgrrn0X26A27BpuOpWNk_oCga9=
0EDbojQIcSToUq32-XvD2wiLS7c$>



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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap:=
break-word">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Support and I&#8217;m not aware of any IPR<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> slitkows.ietf@gmail.com &lt;slitkows.ie=
tf@gmail.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 9, 2020 3:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bess@ietf.org; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking@ietf.org<=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> WGLC and IPR poll on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworkin=
g-03<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello WG,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This email starts a three weeks Working Group Last C=
all on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03 [1]. We add an additional=
 week due to the upcoming IETF meeting.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This poll runs until * the 30<sup>th</sup> Of &nbsp;=
November *.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies =
to this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with =
IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879,
 3669 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document pleas=
e respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any re=
levant undisclosed IPR. The Document
 won't progress without answers from all the Authors and Contributors.&nbsp=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">There is currently no IPR disclosed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please expli=
citly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclo=
sed in conformance with IETF rules.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaint=
ext">Stephane &amp; Matthew<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[1] <span lang=3D"FR"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.=
com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interwo=
rking/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Udv1wWTrY2Bgrrn0X26A27BpuOpWNk_oCga90EDbojQIcSToUq32=
-XvDIG8Isnk$"><span lang=3D"EN-US">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i=
etf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[2] <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/ma=
ilarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw__;!!NEt6yMaO-g=
k!Udv1wWTrY2Bgrrn0X26A27BpuOpWNk_oCga90EDbojQIcSToUq32-XvD2wiLS7c$" target=
=3D"_blank">
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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To: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, Jeff Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [bess] New Extended Community for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb
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Hi John, Jeff,

Could you please confirm that you are fine with the revised text below or if=
 you have any further input?

Thanks,
Neeraj

> On Oct 14, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
>=20
> Hi John, Jeff,
>=20
> FYI - latest revision of this draft corrects the BW attribute to be transi=
tive inline with Ali's explanation below: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/dr=
aft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-07.txt. Please do let us know if there are any=
 further concerns.
>=20
> 4.2.  EVPN Link Bandwidth Extended Community
> =20
>    A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined to signal
>    local ES link bandwidth to remote PEs.  This extended-community is
>    defined of type 0x06 (EVPN).  IANA is requested to assign a sub-type
>    value of 0x10 for the EVPN Link bandwidth extended community, of type
>    0x06 (EVPN).  EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined as
>    transitive.
> =20
>    Link bandwidth extended community described in [BGP-LINK-BW] for
>    layer 3 VPNs was considered for re-use here.  This Link bandwidth
>    extended community is however defined in [BGP-LINK-BW] as optional
>    non-transitive.  Since it is not possible to change deployed behavior
>    of extended-community defined in [BGP-LINK-BW], it was decided to
>    define a new one.  In inter-AS scenarios, link-bandwidth needs to be
>    signaled to eBGP neighbors.  When signaled across AS boundary, this
>    attribute can be used to achieve optimal load-balancing towards
>    source PEs from a different AS.  This is applicable both when next-
>    hop is changed or unchanged across AS boundaries.
>=20
>=20
> Thanks,
> Neeraj
>=20
>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:14 PM Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi=3D40cisco=
.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>> John, Jeff:
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> During the presentation of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb -03 at the BES=
S WG meeting, you had a question/concern regarding why we are defining a new=
 EC if we are doing conditional transitive. First, I=E2=80=99d like to make a=
 correction to the preso by saying that the transitivity is not conditional a=
nd we will correct this in the next rev of the draft. So, the EC is simply t=
ransitive at all time. Given the EC defined in draft-ietf-idr-link-bandwidth=
-07.txt is non-transitive, we cannot use this EC for our application. That=E2=
=80=99s why we are defining a new one.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>>=20
>> Ali
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> BESS mailing list
>> BESS@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><br>Hi John, Jeff,<div><br></div><div>Could=
 you please confirm that you are fine with the revised text below or if you h=
ave any further input?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Neeraj<div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Oct 14, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Nee=
raj Malhotra &lt;neeraj.ietf@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div>=
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>Hi John, Jeff,</div><di=
v><br></div><div>FYI - latest revision of this draft corrects the BW attribu=
te to be transitive inline with Ali's explanation below:&nbsp;<a href=3D"htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-07.txt">https:/=
/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-07.txt</a>. Please d=
o let us know if there are any further concerns.</div><div><br></div><div><p=
re style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">4.2.&nbsp; EVPN Link Bandwidth Extended Communi=
ty<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span>&nbsp;</span></pre=
><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; A new EVPN Link Bandwidth exten=
ded community is defined to signal<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0i=
n 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(=
0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; local ES link bandwidth to remote PEs.&nbsp; This exten=
ded-community is<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; defined of type 0x06 (EVPN).&nbsp; IANA is requested to assign a sub-type=
<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font=
-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; value of 0x10=
 for the EVPN Link bandwidth extended community, of type<span></span></pre><=
pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; 0x06 (EVPN).&nbsp; EVPN Link Band=
width extended community is defined as<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margi=
n:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:=
rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; transitive.<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:=
0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rg=
b(0,0,0)"><span>&nbsp;</span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; Link bandwidth extended community described in [BGP-LINK-BW] for<span></s=
pan></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&=
quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; layer 3 VPNs was consi=
dered for re-use here.&nbsp; This Link bandwidth<span></span></pre><pre styl=
e=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&qu=
ot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; extended community is however defined in [=
BGP-LINK-BW] as optional<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.00=
01pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&n=
bsp;&nbsp; non-transitive.&nbsp; Since it is not possible to change deployed=
 behavior<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:=
10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; of e=
xtended-community defined in [BGP-LINK-BW], it was decided to<span></span></=
pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; define a new one.&nbsp; In i=
nter-AS scenarios, link-bandwidth needs to be<span></span></pre><pre style=3D=
"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; signaled to eBGP neighbors.&nbsp; When signal=
ed across AS boundary, this<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0=
.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp; attribute can be used to achieve optimal load-balancing toward=
s<span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; source PEs f=
rom a different AS.&nbsp; This is applicable both when next-<span></span></p=
re><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;&nbsp; hop is changed or unchanged a=
cross AS boundaries.</pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></pre><pre styl=
e=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&qu=
ot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-s=
ize:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D=
"font-family:-webkit-standard;font-size:medium;white-space:normal">Thanks,</=
span></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"font-family:-webkit=
-standard;font-size:medium;white-space:normal">Neeraj</span></pre></div></di=
v></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:14 PM Ali Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;saja=
ssi=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.o=
rg</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left=
-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_3439128663922867166WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">John, Jeff:<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">During the presentatio=
n of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb -03 at the BESS WG meeting, you had a q=
uestion/concern regarding why we are defining a new EC if we are doing condi=
tional transitive. First, I=E2=80=99d like
 to make a correction to the preso by saying that the transitivity is not co=
nditional and we will correct this in the next rev of the draft. So, the EC i=
s simply transitive at all time. Given the EC defined in draft-ietf-idr-link=
-bandwidth-07.txt is non-transitive,
 we cannot use this EC for our application. That=E2=80=99s why we are defini=
ng a new one.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Cheers,<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Ali<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
span></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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From: Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 11:05:59 -0800
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Subject: Re: [bess] WGLC and IPR poll on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03
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Hi,

Support.

Thanks,
Neeraj


On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 12:20 AM <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello WG,
>
>
>
> This email starts a three weeks Working Group Last Call on
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03 [1]. We add an additional week
> due to the upcoming IETF meeting.
>
>
>
> This poll runs until * the 30th Of  November *.
>
>
>
> We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to
> this Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with
> IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this Document please
> respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
> relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from
> all the Authors and Contributors.
>
> There is currently no IPR disclosed.
>
>
>
> If you are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please
> explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been
> disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>
>
> We are also polling for any existing implementation as per [2].
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Stephane & Matthew
>
>
>
> [1]
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking/
>
> [2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>

--0000000000002d5c1705b3c55fa9
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>Sup=
port.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Neeraj</div><div><br></div=
></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr"=
>On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 12:20 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.=
com">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
lang=3D"FR"><div class=3D"gmail-m_5371639390977496780WordSection1"><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello WG,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This email starts a three weeks Work=
ing Group Last Call on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03 [1]. We a=
dd an additional week due to the upcoming IETF meeting.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This poll runs until * the=
 30<sup>th</sup> Of =C2=A0November *.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"g=
mail-m_5371639390977496780gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-64871772984392=
82362msoplaintext"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We are also polling for knowledge o=
f any undisclosed IPR that applies to this Document, to ensure that IPR has=
 been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 366=
9 and 5378 for more details).<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_5=
371639390977496780gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362mso=
plaintext"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you are listed as an Author or a Contrib=
utor of this Document please respond to this email and indicate whether or =
not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR. The Document won&#39;t p=
rogress without answers from all the Authors and Contributors.=C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_5371639390977496780gmail-m-3566480992=
569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintext"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ther=
e is currently no IPR disclosed.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-=
m_5371639390977496780gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362=
msoplaintext" style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_5371639390977496780gmail-m-3566480992=
569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintext"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If y=
ou are not listed as an Author or a Contributor, then please explicitly res=
pond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in co=
nformance with IETF rules.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_5371=
639390977496780gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msopla=
intext" style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u=
></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_5371639390977496780gmail-m-3566480992569920=
863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintext"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We are als=
o polling for any existing implementation as per [2]. <u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_5371639390977496780gmail-m-3566480992569920863gmail=
-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintext"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_5371639390977496780gmail-m-356648099256992=
0863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintext"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you=
,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_5371639390977496780gmail-m-35=
66480992569920863gmail-m-6487177298439282362msoplaintext"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US">Stephane &amp; Matthew<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US">[1] </span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking/" target=3D"_blank"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interwork=
ing/</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[2] <a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/a=
rch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarc=
hive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a><u></u><u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--0000000000002d5c1705b3c55fa9--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] IETF 109 draft idr agenda
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Subject: Re: [bess] [Idr] IETF 109 draft idr agenda
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/USgsoPWHfoL5L2sTifRTmj2D2tc>
Subject: Re: [bess] [Idr] IETF 109 draft idr agenda
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Acee:=20

=20

Linda=E2=80=99s started out in IDR as a replacement of IP-Sec tunnels =
for Tunnel encapsulation.   The Application draft for SDWAN is in BESS.  =


=20

Due to the shorten meeting time, I recommended to Linda and her =
co-authors to only do the mechanism presentation in either BESS or IDR.  =
 I recommended if she presented mechanisms in IDR that she shorten her =
time slot in BESS to 2 slides and 5 minutes.   Or if she presents the =
mechanisms in BESS (15 minutes) we do not need to present in IDR. =20

=20

Hu Jun, Linda,  and Ali S. all proposed mechanisms as a replacement for =
3 IP-Sec tunnel-types being removed by =
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-20.txt.   Each of these 3 solutions =
proposed either a replacement for IP-SEC or a new tunnel type (EVPN from =
Ali).   As a replacement for the tunnels in IDR,  Jun and =
Linda=E2=80=99s draft could go in either WG.   The EVPN draft from Ali =
clearly belongs in the BESS WG.  I am convinced by the authors we have 3 =
different use cases. =20

=20

As part of a joint work between IDR and BESS, all 3 gave presentations =
in IETF 105 and received feedback on security issues.  I chaired this =
section joint section.  I have seen security corrections and packing =
improvements from Jun Hu draft and Linda=E2=80=99s draft.  I have not =
seen any textual security improvements in the EVPN text.  Ali has =
reported security improvements, but the text and the text of drafts it =
points to does not seem to matter.   I hope to see that we can use =
common sub-TLVs for 3 different tunnel types.=20

=20

The drafts for the new tunnel types will need to be review and vetted by =
both working groups (IDR and BESS).=20

=20

I hope if Ali presents on the -03.txt he will provide details on why he =
has not address the concerns from the security review in IETF 105 and =
what alignment he plans with draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-20.txt.=20

=20

Cheers, Sue=20

=20

From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem =
(acee)
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 7:09 PM
To: Linda Dunbar; Dongjie (Jimmy); idr@ietf.org
Cc: idr-chairs@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] [Idr] IETF 109 draft idr agenda

=20

Hi Linda, et al, +BESS,=20

Isn=E2=80=99t this draft under the auspices of the BESS charter?

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Linda Dunbar =
<linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 6:02 PM
To: Jie Dong <jie.dong@huawei.com>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] IETF 109 draft idr agenda

=20

Jimmy and IDR chairs,=20

=20

Can you add the following to the agenda?=20

=20

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-discovery/

=20

The document describes encoding of BGP UPDATE messages for the SDWAN =
edge node discovery.

=20

Thank you very much.  I am very sorry that I missed sending the email (I =
thought I did). =20

=20

Linda Dunbar

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Dongjie (Jimmy)
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 9:26 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: idr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] IETF 109 draft idr agenda

=20

Hi all,

=20

A draft agenda of IDR session on IETF 109 has been posted at: =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/agenda-109-idr =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fmeeting%2F109%2Fmaterials%2Fagenda-109-idr&data=3D04%7=
C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Cad3c8a327e784534676908d885286e7d%7C0=
fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637405756005279871%7CUnknown%7C=
TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M=
n0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DR7BHCQgpilBDKeky4LsqL3nnfZb9T0ftGSKu5JNaW5I%3D&reser=
ved=3D0>=20

=20

Please take a look and let us know if any change is needed.

=20

Presenters, please remember to send your slides to me and CC the chairs =
24 hours before the meeting session of your presentation, for the first =
session it is Sunday 14:30 ICT (UTC +7) . Thanks.

=20

And FYI here is the checklist for presenting at IDR:

=20

https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20presenting=
%20at%20an%20IDR%20meeting =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac=
.tools.ietf.org%2Fwg%2Fidr%2Ftrac%2Fwiki%2FChecklist%2520for%2520presenti=
ng%2520at%2520an%2520IDR%2520meeting&data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futu=
rewei.com%7Cad3c8a327e784534676908d885286e7d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d55=
91fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637405756005279871%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wL=
jAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DFfma=
oS6o%2BfZOG7UC%2FVBZsfOWHNCKDLSdIvx9cy73ijs%3D&reserved=3D0>=20

=20

Best regards,

Jie


------=_NextPart_000_0462_01D6B798.9D39A100
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Acee: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Linda=E2=80=99s started out in =
IDR as a replacement of IP-Sec tunnels for Tunnel =
encapsulation.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The Application draft for SDWAN is in =
BESS.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Due to =
the shorten meeting time, I recommended to Linda and her co-authors to =
only do the mechanism presentation in either BESS or IDR.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I =
recommended if she presented mechanisms in IDR that she shorten her time =
slot in BESS to 2 slides and 5 minutes. =C2=A0=C2=A0Or if she presents =
the mechanisms in BESS (15 minutes) we do not need to present in =
IDR.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hu Jun, =
Linda,=C2=A0 and Ali S. all proposed mechanisms as a replacement for 3 =
IP-Sec tunnel-types being removed by =
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-20.txt. =C2=A0=C2=A0Each of these 3 =
solutions proposed either a replacement for IP-SEC or a new tunnel type =
(EVPN from Ali).=C2=A0=C2=A0 As a replacement for the tunnels in IDR, =
=C2=A0Jun and Linda=E2=80=99s draft could go in either WG. =
=C2=A0=C2=A0The EVPN draft from Ali clearly belongs in the BESS =
WG.=C2=A0 I am convinced by the authors we have 3 different use =
cases.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As part =
of a joint work between IDR and BESS, all 3 gave presentations in IETF =
105 and received feedback on security issues.=C2=A0 I chaired this =
section joint section.=C2=A0 I have seen security corrections and =
packing improvements from Jun Hu draft and Linda=E2=80=99s draft.=C2=A0 =
I have not seen any textual security improvements in the EVPN =
text.=C2=A0 Ali has reported security improvements, but the text and the =
text of drafts it points to does not seem to matter. =C2=A0=C2=A0I hope =
to see that we can use common sub-TLVs for 3 different tunnel types. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The =
drafts for the new tunnel types will need to be review and vetted by =
both working groups (IDR and BESS). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I hope =
if Ali presents on the -03.txt he will provide details on why he has not =
address the concerns from the security review in IETF 105 and what =
alignment he plans with draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-20.txt. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Cheers, =
Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 10, 2020 7:09 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Linda Dunbar; Dongjie (Jimmy); idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr-chairs@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] [Idr] =
IETF 109 draft idr agenda<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Hi Linda, et al, =
+BESS, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Isn=E2=80=99t this draft under the auspices =
of the BESS charter?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; =
on behalf of Linda Dunbar &lt;linda.dunbar@futurewei.com&gt;<br><b>Date: =
</b>Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 6:02 PM<br><b>To: </b>Jie Dong =
&lt;jie.dong@huawei.com&gt;, IDR List &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: =
</b>&quot;idr-chairs@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;idr-chairs@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Idr] IETF 109 draft =
idr agenda<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Jimmy and IDR chairs, =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Can you add the following to the agenda? =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-disc=
overy/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-sdwan-edge-disc=
overy/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>The document describes =
encoding of BGP UPDATE messages for the SDWAN edge node =
discovery.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Thank you very much. &nbsp;I am very sorry =
that I missed sending the email (I thought I did).&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Dongjie (Jimmy)<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 9, 2020 =
9:26 PM<br><b>To:</b> idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr-chairs@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] IETF 109 draft idr =
agenda</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-align:left'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>A draft agenda of IDR =
session on IETF 109 has been posted at: <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fmeeting%2F109%2Fmaterials%2Fagenda-109-idr&amp;=
data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Cad3c8a327e784534676908d88=
5286e7d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637405756005279871%7=
CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW=
wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3DR7BHCQgpilBDKeky4LsqL3nnfZb9T0ftGSKu5=
JNaW5I%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/mate=
rials/agenda-109-idr</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Please take a look and let us know if any =
change is needed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Presenters, please remember to send your =
slides to me and CC the chairs 24 hours before the meeting session of =
your presentation, for the first session it is Sunday 14:30 ICT (UTC +7) =
. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>And FYI here is the checklist for presenting =
at IDR:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Ftrac.tools.ietf.org%2Fwg%2Fidr%2Ftrac%2Fwiki%2FChecklist%2520for%2520p=
resenting%2520at%2520an%2520IDR%2520meeting&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.du=
nbar%40futurewei.com%7Cad3c8a327e784534676908d885286e7d%7C0fee8ff2a3b2401=
89c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637405756005279871%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8ey=
JWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&a=
mp;sdata=3DFfmaoS6o%2BfZOG7UC%2FVBZsfOWHNCKDLSdIvx9cy73ijs%3D&amp;reserve=
d=3D0">https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20pre=
senting%20at%20an%20IDR%20meeting</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Jie<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0462_01D6B798.9D39A100--


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In-Reply-To: <160345656094.22100.7057001737682109381@ietfa.amsl.com>
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 18:13:43 -0800
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmVXOrQu2Efs9nojMTOWyy09Cd4XEYS8a5HF+18C+_X1Nw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
Cc: secdir@ietf.org, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, last-call@ietf.org,  draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [bess] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
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Hi Daniel,
many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all are
much appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to your
comments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM>>.
Attached are the new working version and the diff to -12.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatracker <
noreply@ietf.org> wrote:

> Reviewer: Daniel Migault
> Review result: Has Nits
>
> Hi,
>
>
> I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate's ongoing
> effort to
> review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.  These comments were
> written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.  Document
> authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just
> like
> any other IETF Last Call comments.  Please note also that my expertise in
> BGP is
> limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.
>
> Review Results: Has Nits
>
> Please find my comments below.
>
> Yours,
> Daniel
>
>
>                   Multicast VPN Fast Upstream Failover
>                  draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
>
> Abstract
>
>    This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures that
>    allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstream PEs
>    to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels) when
>    selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extending BGP
>    MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised toward a
>    Standby Upstream PE.
>
> <mglt>
> Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN
> designates multicast VPN, it might be
> clarifying to specify the acronym in the
> first sentence. This would later make
> the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer.
>
> </mglt>
>
GIM>> I've updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mVPN/MVPN/
throughout the document.

>
>
> 1.  Introduction
>
>    In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable to
>    provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on
>    different types of failures.  This document addresses failures of
>    elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs connected
>    to VPN sites with receivers.
>
> <mglt>
> Well I am not familiar with neither BGP
> nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS
> and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am
> wondering if there is a distinction
> between the two and a preferred way to
> designate these VPNs.  My understanding
> is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the
> VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone
> for the transport.  Since the PE are
> connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4
> needs to be labeled.
>
> </mglt>
>
GIM>> I understand that this document often sends the reader to check RFC
6513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of providing a
multicast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed on the MPLS data plane
using the BGP control plane.

>
>    Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a PE
>    connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status of
>    P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a given
>    (C-S, C-G).  This method does not provide a "fast failover" solution
> <mglt>
> I understand the limitation is due to
> BGP convergence.
>
> </mglt>
>
GIM>> Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provides the
service restoration functionality but the restoration time is significant
and affects the experience of a client.

   when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism
>    described in Section 4 for a "fast failover" solution.
>
>    Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up failover by
>    not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at recovery
>    time.
>
>    Moreover, section 5 describes a "hot leaf standby" mechanism, that
>    uses a combination of these two mechanisms.  This approach has
>    similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to improve
>    failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given some
>    topology and metric constraints.
>
>
> [...]
>
> 3.1.1.  mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking
>
>    A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is that
>    the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute,
>    is reachable through unicast routing tables.  In this case, the
>    downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachability
>    condition changes.
>
>    That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, except that
>    the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but the root
>    address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.
>
>    If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root address
>    of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop address in
>    the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in unicast
>    routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be
>    unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific benefit.
>
> <mglt>
> It seems to me that x-PMSI address
> designates a different interface than
> the one used by the Tunnel itself. If
> that is correct, such mechanisms seems
> to assume that one equipment up on one
> interface will be up on the other
> interfaces. I have the impression that a
> configuration change in a PE may end up
> in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE
> still being reachable though the x-PMSI
> Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible
> scenario, the current mechanisms may not
> provide more efficient mechanism than
> then those of the standard BGP.
>
GIM>> That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, and in the
Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some
assumptions about the state of the remote system based on a single event or
change of state. Usually, AFAIK, operators use not a physical interface but
a loopback to associate with a tunnel. With a fast IGP convergence, a
loopback interface is reachable as long as there's a path through the
network between two nodes.

>
> Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is
> either up or down and the determination
> of not being up if being down.  I am not
> convinced that the two only states.
> Typically services under DDoS may be
> down for a small amount of time. While
> this affects the network, there is not
> always a clear cut between the PE being
> up or down.
> </mglt>
>
GIM>>  In defect detection a system often has some hysteresis, i.e., time
that the system has to wait to change its state. For example, BFD changes
state from Up to Down after the system does not receive N consecutive
packets (usually 3). As a result, in some cases, the system can be tuned to
detect relatively short outages while in others be slower and miss
short-lived outages.

>
>
> [...]
>
> 3.1.6.  BFD Discriminator Attribute
>
>    P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint BFD
>    session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with an
>    x-PMSI A-D Route.
>
>    This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP
>    attribute called the "BFD Discriminator".  It is an optional
>    transitive BGP attribute.  In Section 7.2, IANA is requested to
>    allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).  The format of this attribute is
>    shown in Figure 1.
>
> <mglt>
> I feel that the sentence "In Section ...
> TBA2)." should be removed.
>
> </mglt>
>
GIM>> We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usually, this
text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read

In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.



>
>        0                   1                   2                   3
>        0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       |    BFD Mode   |                  Reserved                     |
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       |                       BFD Discriminator                       |
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       ~                         Optional TLVs                         ~
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
>             Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discriminator Attribute
>
>    Where:
>
>       BFD Mode field is the one octet long.  This specification defines
>       the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.
>
>       Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUST be zeroed
>       on transmission and ignored on receipt.
>
>       BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.
>
>
>
>
>
> Morin, et al.             Expires April 5, 2021                 [Page 7]
>
> Internet-Draft         mVPN Fast Upstream Failover          October 2020
>
>
>       Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field that MAY be
>       used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future extensions.
>       TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.  To allow
>       for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as a variable-
>       length object.  Figure 2 presents the Optional TLV format TLV that
>       consists of:
>
>       *  one octet-long field of TLV 's Type value (Section 7.3)
>
>       *  one octet-long field of the length of the Value field in octets
>
>       *  variable length Value field.
>
>       The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.
> <mglt>
> I am wondering why the constraint on the
> length is not mentioned in the paragraph
> associated to the field - as opposed to
> a  separate paragraph.
>
> </mglt>
>
GIM>> There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length and
length. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length of
the Value field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV,
including lengths of Type, Length and Value fields.

>
> [..]
>
> 8.  Security Considerations
>
>    This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC6514]
>    and hence shares the security considerations respectively represented
>    in these specifications.
>
>    This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, in turn,
>    is based on [RFC5880].  Security considerations relevant to each
>    protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specifications.  An
>    implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mechanism
>    to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be active
>    at the same time.
>
> <mglt>
> At a high level view - or at least my
> interpretation of it - the document
> proposes a mechanism based on BFD to
> detect fault in the path.  Upon a fault
> detection a fail-over operation is
> instructed using BGP. This rocedure is
> expected to perform a faster fail-over
> than traditional BGP convergence on
> maintaining routing tables. Once the
> fail over has been performed, BFD is
> confirms the new path is "legitimate"
> and works.
>
> It seems correct to me that the current
> protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.
> That said, having BFD authentication
> based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that
> stronger primitives be recommended.
> While this does not concerns the current
> document, it seems to me that the
> information might be relayed to routing
> ADs.
>
> What remains unclear to me - and I
> assume this might be due to my lake or
> expertise in routing area - is the impact
> associated to performing a fail-over
> both on 1) the data plane and 2) the
> standard BGP way to establish routing
> tables.
>
> Regarding the data plane, I am wondering
> if fail-over results in a lost of
> packets for example - I suppose for
> example that at least the packets in the
> process of being forwarded might be
> lost. I believe that providing details
> on this may be good.
>
GIM>> You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. With network
failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the reaction to
a network failure.  If that is the case, then packet loss experienced by
service due to the fail-over is the result of the network failure. Would
you agree with that view? A shorter failure detection interval and faster
fail-over should minimize the packet loss and, as a result, the negative
impact on the service itself.

>
> If there are any impacts I would like to
> understand also in which cases the
> decision to perform a failover operation
> may result in more harm than the event
> that has been over-interpreted. An
> hypothetical scenario could be that the
> non reception of a BFD packet is
> interpreted as a PE being down while it
> may not be correct and the PE might have
> been simply under stress. A "too fast" fail-over
> may over interpreted it and perform a
> fail-over. If such things could happen,
> an attacker could leverage a micro event
> to perform network operation that are
> not negligible. Another way to see that
> is that an attacker might not have
> direct access to the control plan, but
> could use the data plan to generate a
> stress and sort of control the fail
> over. It seems to me that some text
> might be welcome to prevent such cases
> to happen. This could be guidance for
> declaring a tunnel down for example.
>
GIM>> I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval may produce
a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus triggering
the fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue, something
that an operator will consider when deploying the mechanism specified in
this draft. Resulting from addressing RtgDir review the draft was updated
to provide more guidance:
   In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection
   methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cause
   unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.
Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also applies to
the scenario you've presented.

>
> Similarly, it would be good to add some
> text regarding the interferences with
> the non-fast forwarding fail over when
> performed by the standard BGP.
> Typically, my impression is that the
> fast fail-over mechanism is a local
> decision versus the BGP convergence that
> is more global. As a result, even with
> more time this two mechanisms may come
> with different outcomes. One such
> example to illustrate my purpose could
> be the following. Note that this is only
> illustrative of my purpose, and I let
> you find and pick on ethat is more
> appropriated.   I am thinking of a case
> where a standby PE is be shared among
> multiple PEs - supposing this situation
> could occur.  Typically, if PE_1, PE_2
> are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case
> PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a
> to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to
> PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end
> up in such situation while a local
> decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to
> switch to PE_1.
>
> </mglt>
>
GIM>> Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deploying
protection based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referred
to as M:N protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network
failure, e.g., BFD, require a protocol to coordinate the switchover. This
specification applies to a more special deployment scenario where one
working PE is protected by one or more standby PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,<div>many thanks for the review=
, thoughtful comments, and questions, all are much appreciated. Also, my ap=
ologies for the long delay to respond to your comments. Please find my answ=
ers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM&gt;&gt;. Attached are the new wor=
king version and the diff to -12.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><d=
iv>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatracker=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org">noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Reviewer: Daniel M=
igault<br>
Review result: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Hi, <br>
<br>
<br>
I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate&#39;s ongoing =
effort to<br>
review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.=C2=A0 These comments=
 were<br>
written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.=C2=A0 Doc=
ument<br>
authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just l=
ike<br>
any other IETF Last Call comments.=C2=A0 Please note also that my expertise=
 in BGP is<br>
limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.=C2=A0 <b=
r>
<br>
Review Results: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Please find my comments below. <br>
<br>
Yours, <br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Multicast VP=
N Fast Upstream Failover<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-be=
ss-mvpn-fast-failover-11<br>
<br>
Abstract<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures =
that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstr=
eam PEs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels=
) when<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extend=
ing BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised tow=
ard a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Standby Upstream PE.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN<br>
designates multicast VPN, it might be<br>
clarifying to specify the acronym in the<br>
first sentence. This would later make<br>
the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I&#39;ve updated s/BGP MVPN/=
BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mVPN/MVPN/ throughout the document.</div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
1.=C2=A0 Introduction<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable =
to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0different types of failures.=C2=A0 This document addresses fai=
lures of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs conn=
ected<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to VPN sites with receivers.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Well I am not familiar with neither BGP<br>
nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS<br>
and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am<br>
wondering if there is a distinction<br>
between the two and a preferred way to<br>
designate these VPNs.=C2=A0 My understanding<br>
is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the<br>
VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone<br>
for the transport.=C2=A0 Since the PE are<br>
connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4<br>
needs to be labeled. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I understand that this docum=
ent often sends the reader to check RFC 6513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN=
 identifies the case of providing a multicast service over an IP VPN that i=
s overlayed=C2=A0on the MPLS data plane using the BGP control plane.</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a =
PE<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status =
of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a =
given<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(C-S, C-G).=C2=A0 This method does not provide a &quot;fast fa=
ilover&quot; solution<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I understand the limitation is due to<br>
BGP convergence. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Yes, a dynamic routing proto=
col, BGP in this case, provides the service restoration functionality but t=
he restoration time is significant and affects the experience of a client.<=
/div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0described in Section 4 for a &quot;fast failover&quot; solutio=
n.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up fail=
over by<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at re=
covery<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0time.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Moreover, section 5 describes a &quot;hot leaf standby&quot; m=
echanism, that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0uses a combination of these two mechanisms.=C2=A0 This approac=
h has<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to impro=
ve<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given som=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0topology and metric constraints.<br>
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.1.=C2=A0 mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is=
 that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel att=
ribute,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is reachable through unicast routing tables.=C2=A0 In this cas=
e, the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachabi=
lity<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0condition changes.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, excep=
t that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but th=
e root<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root a=
ddress<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop addre=
ss in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in un=
icast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific b=
enefit.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
It seems to me that x-PMSI address<br>
designates a different interface than<br>
the one used by the Tunnel itself. If<br>
that is correct, such mechanisms seems<br>
to assume that one equipment up on one<br>
interface will be up on the other<br>
interfaces. I have the impression that a<br>
configuration change in a PE may end up<br>
in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE<br>
still being reachable though the x-PMSI<br>
Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible<br>
scenario, the current mechanisms may not<br>
provide more efficient mechanism than<br>
then those of the standard BGP.<br></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; That is a =
very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, and in the Fault Management=
 (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some assumptions=C2=A0about the st=
ate of the remote system based on a single event or change of state. Usuall=
y, AFAIK, operators use not a physical interface but a loopback to associat=
e with a tunnel. With a fast IGP convergence, a loopback interface is reach=
able as long as there&#39;s a path through the network between two nodes.</=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is<br>
either up or down and the determination<br>
of not being up if being down.=C2=A0 I am not<br>
convinced that the two only states.<br>
Typically services under DDoS may be<br>
down for a small amount of time. While<br>
this affects the network, there is not<br>
always a clear cut between the PE being<br>
up or down. <br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 In defect detection a =
system often has some hysteresis, i.e., time that the system has to wait to=
 change its state. For example, BFD changes state from Up to Down after the=
 system does not receive N consecutive packets (usually 3). As a result, in=
 some cases, the system can be tuned to detect relatively short outages whi=
le in others be slower and miss short-lived outages.</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.6.=C2=A0 BFD Discriminator Attribute<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint=
 BFD<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0x-PMSI A-D Route.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attribute called the &quot;BFD Discriminator&quot;.=C2=A0 It i=
s an optional<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0transitive BGP attribute.=C2=A0 In Section 7.2, IANA is reques=
ted to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).=C2=A0 The format of this =
attribute is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0shown in Figure 1.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I feel that the sentence &quot;In Section ...<br>
TBA2).&quot; should be removed.<br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; We use this to mark where to=
 note the allocated value. Usually, this text is replaced by the RFC Editor=
 to read=C2=A0</div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;border:non=
e;padding:0px"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>In Section 7.2 IANA allocate=
d codepoint XXX.</div></div></blockquote><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A03<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 =
4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Mode=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reserved=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0BFD Discriminator=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ~=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Optional TLVs=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0~<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discr=
iminator Attribute<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Where:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Mode field is the one octet long.=C2=A0 This speci=
fication defines<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUS=
T be zeroed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on transmission and ignored on receipt.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Morin, et al.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Expires April =
5, 2021=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[Page =
7]<br>
<br>
Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mVPN Fast Upstream Failover=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 October 2020<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field th=
at MAY be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future ext=
ensions.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.=
=C2=A0 To allow<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as =
a variable-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 length object.=C2=A0 Figure 2 presents the Optional TL=
V format TLV that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 consists of:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 one octet-long field of TLV &#39;s Type value =
(Section 7.3)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 one octet-long field of the length of the Valu=
e field in octets<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 variable length Value field.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.<b=
r>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I am wondering why the constraint on the<br>
length is not mentioned in the paragraph<br>
associated to the field - as opposed to<br>
a=C2=A0 separate paragraph. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; There might be a slight conf=
usion due to the use of Length and length. Capitalized - the name of the fi=
eld which value is the length of the Value field. The last sentence refers =
to the overall length of a TLV, including lengths of Type, Length and Value=
 fields.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
[..]<br>
<br>
8.=C2=A0 Security Considerations<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC=
6514]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and hence shares the security considerations respectively repr=
esented<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in these specifications.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, i=
n turn,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is based on [RFC5880].=C2=A0 Security considerations relevant =
to each<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specificatio=
ns.=C2=A0 An<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mec=
hanism<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be=
 active<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0at the same time.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
At a high level view - or at least my<br>
interpretation of it - the document<br>
proposes a mechanism based on BFD to<br>
detect fault in the path.=C2=A0 Upon a fault<br>
detection a fail-over operation is<br>
instructed using BGP. This rocedure is<br>
expected to perform a faster fail-over<br>
than traditional BGP convergence on<br>
maintaining routing tables. Once the<br>
fail over has been performed, BFD is<br>
confirms the new path is &quot;legitimate&quot;<br>
and works.<br>
<br>
It seems correct to me that the current<br>
protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.<br>
That said, having BFD authentication<br>
based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that<br>
stronger primitives be recommended.<br>
While this does not concerns the current<br>
document, it seems to me that the<br>
information might be relayed to routing<br>
ADs. <br>
<br>
What remains unclear to me - and I<br>
assume this might be due to my lake or<br>
expertise in routing area - is the impact<br>
associated to performing a fail-over<br>
both on 1) the data plane and 2) the<br>
standard BGP way to establish routing<br>
tables. <br>
<br>
Regarding the data plane, I am wondering<br>
if fail-over results in a lost of<br>
packets for example - I suppose for<br>
example that at least the packets in the<br>
process of being forwarded might be<br>
lost. I believe that providing details<br>
on this may be good. <br></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; You bring up a very =
topic for the discussion, thank you. With network failure detection in plac=
e, the fail-over can be viewed as the reaction to a network failure.=C2=A0 =
If that is the case, then packet loss experienced by service due to the fai=
l-over is the result of the network failure. Would you agree with that view=
? A shorter failure detection interval=C2=A0and faster fail-over should min=
imize the packet loss and, as a result, the negative impact on the service =
itself.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
If there are any impacts I would like to<br>
understand also in which cases the<br>
decision to perform a failover operation<br>
may result in more harm than the event<br>
that has been over-interpreted. An<br>
hypothetical scenario could be that the<br>
non reception of a BFD packet is<br>
interpreted as a PE being down while it<br>
may not be correct and the PE might have<br>
been simply under stress. A &quot;too fast&quot; fail-over<br>
may over interpreted it and perform a<br>
fail-over. If such things could happen,<br>
an attacker could leverage a micro event<br>
to perform network operation that are<br>
not negligible. Another way to see that<br>
is that an attacker might not have<br>
direct access to the control plan, but<br>
could use the data plan to generate a<br>
stress and sort of control the fail<br>
over. It seems to me that some text<br>
might be welcome to prevent such cases<br>
to happen. This could be guidance for<br>
declaring a tunnel down for example. <br></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I ag=
ree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval may produce a false-n=
egative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus triggering the fail-ov=
er. I think that that is more an operational issue, something that an opera=
tor will consider when deploying the mechanism specified in this draft. Res=
ulting from addressing RtgDir review the draft was updated to provide more =
guidance:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0In many cases, it is not practical to use =
both protection<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0methods at the same time because uncorrelat=
ed timers might cause<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0unnecessary switchovers and destabili=
ze the network.<br></div><div>Though the text above might not be general, I=
 think that it also applies to the scenario you&#39;ve presented.</div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it would be good to add some<br>
text regarding the interferences with<br>
the non-fast forwarding fail over when<br>
performed by the standard BGP.<br>
Typically, my impression is that the<br>
fast fail-over mechanism is a local<br>
decision versus the BGP convergence that<br>
is more global. As a result, even with<br>
more time this two mechanisms may come<br>
with different outcomes. One such<br>
example to illustrate my purpose could<br>
be the following. Note that this is only<br>
illustrative of my purpose, and I let<br>
you find and pick on ethat is more<br>
appropriated.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I am thinking of a case<br>
where a standby PE is be shared among<br>
multiple PEs - supposing this situation<br>
could occur.=C2=A0 Typically, if PE_1, PE_2<br>
are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case<br>
PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a<br>
to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to<br>
PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end<br>
up in such situation while a local<br>
decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to<br>
switch to PE_1. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for the scenario t=
hat is very common in deploying protection based on the shared redundant re=
sources. Such schemes, referred to as M:N protection, in addition to using =
mechanism detecting a network failure, e.g., BFD, require a protocol to coo=
rdinate the switchover. This specification applies to a more special deploy=
ment scenario where one working PE is protected by one or more standby PEs,=
 i.e., 1:N protection.</div></div></div>

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To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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From: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 16:48:15 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/3i04sI-_Y7TZNFMQzBwQTIl-MUk>
Subject: Re: [bess] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
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Hi Greg,

Thanks for the response and clarifications. Most of my comments have been a=
ddressed/answered. However, it seems to me that some additional text might =
be added to the security consideration section document the impact on the n=
etwork of a fast-failover operation. The knowledge of these impact might be=
 useful for an operator to determine when the trigger can be done.

Please see more comments inline.

Yours,
Daniel

________________________________
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:13 PM
To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
Cc: secdir@ietf.org <secdir@ietf.org>; BESS <bess@ietf.org>; last-call@ietf=
.org <last-call@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org =
<draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-=
11

Hi Daniel,
many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all are muc=
h appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to your com=
ments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM>>. Atta=
ched are the new working version and the diff to -12.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatracker <noreply@iet=
f.org<mailto:noreply@ietf.org>> wrote:
Reviewer: Daniel Migault
Review result: Has Nits

Hi,


I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate's ongoing effo=
rt to
review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.  These comments were
written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.  Document
authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just l=
ike
any other IETF Last Call comments.  Please note also that my expertise in B=
GP is
limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.

Review Results: Has Nits

Please find my comments below.

Yours,
Daniel


                  Multicast VPN Fast Upstream Failover
                 draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11

Abstract

   This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures that
   allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstream PEs
   to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels) when
   selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extending BGP
   MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised toward a
   Standby Upstream PE.

<mglt>
Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN
designates multicast VPN, it might be
clarifying to specify the acronym in the
first sentence. This would later make
the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer.

</mglt>
GIM>> I've updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mVPN/MVPN/ throug=
hout the document.


1.  Introduction

   In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable to
   provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on
   different types of failures.  This document addresses failures of
   elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs connected
   to VPN sites with receivers.

<mglt>
Well I am not familiar with neither BGP
nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS
and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am
wondering if there is a distinction
between the two and a preferred way to
designate these VPNs.  My understanding
is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the
VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone
for the transport.  Since the PE are
connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4
needs to be labeled.

</mglt>
GIM>> I understand that this document often sends the reader to check RFC 6=
513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of providing a multi=
cast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed on the MPLS data plane using =
the BGP control plane.

   Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a PE
   connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status of
   P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a given
   (C-S, C-G).  This method does not provide a "fast failover" solution
<mglt>
I understand the limitation is due to
BGP convergence.

</mglt>
GIM>> Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provides the servi=
ce restoration functionality but the restoration time is significant and af=
fects the experience of a client.

   when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism
   described in Section 4 for a "fast failover" solution.

   Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up failover by
   not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at recovery
   time.

   Moreover, section 5 describes a "hot leaf standby" mechanism, that
   uses a combination of these two mechanisms.  This approach has
   similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to improve
   failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given some
   topology and metric constraints.


[...]

3.1.1.  mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking

   A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is that
   the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute,
   is reachable through unicast routing tables.  In this case, the
   downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachability
   condition changes.

   That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, except that
   the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but the root
   address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.

   If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root address
   of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop address in
   the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in unicast
   routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be
   unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific benefit.

<mglt>
It seems to me that x-PMSI address
designates a different interface than
the one used by the Tunnel itself. If
that is correct, such mechanisms seems
to assume that one equipment up on one
interface will be up on the other
interfaces. I have the impression that a
configuration change in a PE may end up
in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE
still being reachable though the x-PMSI
Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible
scenario, the current mechanisms may not
provide more efficient mechanism than
then those of the standard BGP.
GIM>> That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, and in the =
Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some assumptions a=
bout the state of the remote system based on a single event or change of st=
ate. Usually, AFAIK, operators use not a physical interface but a loopback =
to associate with a tunnel. With a fast IGP convergence, a loopback interfa=
ce is reachable as long as there's a path through the network between two n=
odes.
<mglt>
Thanks for the clarification
</mglt>

Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is
either up or down and the determination
of not being up if being down.  I am not
convinced that the two only states.
Typically services under DDoS may be
down for a small amount of time. While
this affects the network, there is not
always a clear cut between the PE being
up or down.
</mglt>
GIM>>  In defect detection a system often has some hysteresis, i.e., time t=
hat the system has to wait to change its state. For example, BFD changes st=
ate from Up to Down after the system does not receive N consecutive packets=
 (usually 3). As a result, in some cases, the system can be tuned to detect=
 relatively short outages while in others be slower and miss short-lived ou=
tages.


[...]

3.1.6.  BFD Discriminator Attribute

   P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint BFD
   session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with an
   x-PMSI A-D Route.

   This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP
   attribute called the "BFD Discriminator".  It is an optional
   transitive BGP attribute.  In Section 7.2, IANA is requested to
   allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).  The format of this attribute is
   shown in Figure 1.

<mglt>
I feel that the sentence "In Section ...
TBA2)." should be removed.

</mglt>
GIM>> We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usually, this =
text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read
In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.



       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |    BFD Mode   |                  Reserved                     |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                       BFD Discriminator                       |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      ~                         Optional TLVs                         ~
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


            Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discriminator Attribute

   Where:

      BFD Mode field is the one octet long.  This specification defines
      the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.

      Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUST be zeroed
      on transmission and ignored on receipt.

      BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.





Morin, et al.             Expires April 5, 2021                 [Page 7]

Internet-Draft         mVPN Fast Upstream Failover          October 2020


      Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field that MAY be
      used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future extensions.
      TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.  To allow
      for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as a variable-
      length object.  Figure 2 presents the Optional TLV format TLV that
      consists of:

      *  one octet-long field of TLV 's Type value (Section 7.3)

      *  one octet-long field of the length of the Value field in octets

      *  variable length Value field.

      The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.
<mglt>
I am wondering why the constraint on the
length is not mentioned in the paragraph
associated to the field - as opposed to
a  separate paragraph.

</mglt>
GIM>> There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length and length=
. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length of the Valu=
e field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV, including=
 lengths of Type, Length and Value fields.

<mglt>
you are correct that might have confused me.
</mglt>

[..]

8.  Security Considerations

   This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC6514]
   and hence shares the security considerations respectively represented
   in these specifications.

   This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, in turn,
   is based on [RFC5880].  Security considerations relevant to each
   protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specifications.  An
   implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mechanism
   to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be active
   at the same time.

<mglt>
At a high level view - or at least my
interpretation of it - the document
proposes a mechanism based on BFD to
detect fault in the path.  Upon a fault
detection a fail-over operation is
instructed using BGP. This rocedure is
expected to perform a faster fail-over
than traditional BGP convergence on
maintaining routing tables. Once the
fail over has been performed, BFD is
confirms the new path is "legitimate"
and works.

It seems correct to me that the current
protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.
That said, having BFD authentication
based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that
stronger primitives be recommended.
While this does not concerns the current
document, it seems to me that the
information might be relayed to routing
ADs.

What remains unclear to me - and I
assume this might be due to my lake or
expertise in routing area - is the impact
associated to performing a fail-over
both on 1) the data plane and 2) the
standard BGP way to establish routing
tables.

Regarding the data plane, I am wondering
if fail-over results in a lost of
packets for example - I suppose for
example that at least the packets in the
process of being forwarded might be
lost. I believe that providing details
on this may be good.
GIM>> You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. With network=
 failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the reaction to=
 a network failure.  If that is the case, then packet loss experienced by s=
ervice due to the fail-over is the result of the network failure. Would you=
 agree with that view? A shorter failure detection interval and faster fail=
-over should minimize the packet loss and, as a result, the negative impact=
 on the service itself.

<mglt>
sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively =
a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to =
a fast-fail-over without any network failure.  This would be useful for an =
operator to evaluate whether it should spend more time in diagnosing a netw=
ork failure versus performing a fast-fail-over.
Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would ma=
ybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.

At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to charac=
terize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it seems t=
o me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators.
</mglt>

If there are any impacts I would like to
understand also in which cases the
decision to perform a failover operation
may result in more harm than the event
that has been over-interpreted. An
hypothetical scenario could be that the
non reception of a BFD packet is
interpreted as a PE being down while it
may not be correct and the PE might have
been simply under stress. A "too fast" fail-over
may over interpreted it and perform a
fail-over. If such things could happen,
an attacker could leverage a micro event
to perform network operation that are
not negligible. Another way to see that
is that an attacker might not have
direct access to the control plan, but
could use the data plan to generate a
stress and sort of control the fail
over. It seems to me that some text
might be welcome to prevent such cases
to happen. This could be guidance for
declaring a tunnel down for example.
GIM>> I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval may produce=
 a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus triggering t=
he fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue, something tha=
t an operator will consider when deploying the mechanism specified in this =
draft. Resulting from addressing RtgDir review the draft was updated to pro=
vide more guidance:
   In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection
   methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cause
   unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.
<mglt>
Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not rec=
ommended these two mechanism co-exist.
How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft I=
 agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to =
the impacts associated to a fail-over.  In case the fast-failover comes wit=
h no impact this becomes less of a problem for operator deploying it.

</mglt>
Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also applies to=
 the scenario you've presented.

Similarly, it would be good to add some
text regarding the interferences with
the non-fast forwarding fail over when
performed by the standard BGP.
Typically, my impression is that the
fast fail-over mechanism is a local
decision versus the BGP convergence that
is more global. As a result, even with
more time this two mechanisms may come
with different outcomes. One such
example to illustrate my purpose could
be the following. Note that this is only
illustrative of my purpose, and I let
you find and pick on ethat is more
appropriated.   I am thinking of a case
where a standby PE is be shared among
multiple PEs - supposing this situation
could occur.  Typically, if PE_1, PE_2
are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case
PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a
to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to
PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end
up in such situation while a local
decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to
switch to PE_1.

</mglt>
GIM>> Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deploying protectio=
n based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referred to as M:N=
 protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network failure, e.=
g., BFD, require a protocol to coordinate the switchover. This specificatio=
n applies to a more special deployment scenario where one working PE is pro=
tected by one or more standby PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.

<mglt>
I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N s=
cenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the issue=
.
</mglt>

--_000_DM6PR15MB237965003540C4F0679A45DEE3E80DM6PR15MB2379namp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<head>
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1">
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ttom:0;} </style>
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<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi Greg,&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Thanks for the response and clarifications. Most of my comments have been a=
ddressed/answered. However, it seems to me that some additional text might =
be added to the security consideration section document the impact on the n=
etwork of a fast-failover operation.
 The knowledge of these impact might be useful for an operator to determine=
 when the trigger can be done.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Please see more comments inline.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Yours,&nbsp;<br>
Daniel&nbsp;</div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;gregi=
mirsky@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Migault &lt;daniel.migault@ericsson.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> secdir@ietf.org &lt;secdir@ietf.org&gt;; BESS &lt;bess@ietf.org&=
gt;; last-call@ietf.org &lt;last-call@ietf.org&gt;; draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fa=
st-failover.all@ietf.org &lt;draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.or=
g&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fa=
ilover-11</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,
<div>many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all ar=
e much appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to you=
r comments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM&gt=
;&gt;. Attached are the new working version
 and the diff to -12.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Dan=
iel Migault via Datatracker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org">noreply=
@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
Reviewer: Daniel Migault<br>
Review result: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Hi, <br>
<br>
<br>
I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate's ongoing effo=
rt to<br>
review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.&nbsp; These comments=
 were<br>
written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.&nbsp; Doc=
ument<br>
authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just l=
ike<br>
any other IETF Last Call comments.&nbsp; Please note also that my expertise=
 in BGP is<br>
limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.&nbsp; <b=
r>
<br>
Review Results: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Please find my comments below. <br>
<br>
Yours, <br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Multicast VP=
N Fast Upstream Failover<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-ietf-be=
ss-mvpn-fast-failover-11<br>
<br>
Abstract<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures =
that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstr=
eam PEs<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels=
) when<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extend=
ing BGP<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised tow=
ard a<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Standby Upstream PE.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN<br>
designates multicast VPN, it might be<br>
clarifying to specify the acronym in the<br>
first sentence. This would later make<br>
the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I've updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mVPN/M=
VPN/ throughout the document.</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
1.&nbsp; Introduction<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable =
to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on<b=
r>
&nbsp; &nbsp;different types of failures.&nbsp; This document addresses fai=
lures of<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs conn=
ected<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;to VPN sites with receivers.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Well I am not familiar with neither BGP<br>
nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS<br>
and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am<br>
wondering if there is a distinction<br>
between the two and a preferred way to<br>
designate these VPNs.&nbsp; My understanding<br>
is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the<br>
VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone<br>
for the transport.&nbsp; Since the PE are<br>
connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4<br>
needs to be labeled. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I understand that this document often sends the reader to =
check RFC 6513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of provid=
ing a multicast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed&nbsp;on the MPLS d=
ata plane using the BGP control plane.</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a =
PE<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status =
of<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a =
given<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;(C-S, C-G).&nbsp; This method does not provide a &quot;fast fa=
ilover&quot; solution<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I understand the limitation is due to<br>
BGP convergence. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provide=
s the service restoration functionality but the restoration time is signifi=
cant and affects the experience of a client.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
&nbsp; &nbsp;when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism<b=
r>
&nbsp; &nbsp;described in Section 4 for a &quot;fast failover&quot; solutio=
n.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up fail=
over by<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at re=
covery<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;time.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Moreover, section 5 describes a &quot;hot leaf standby&quot; m=
echanism, that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;uses a combination of these two mechanisms.&nbsp; This approac=
h has<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to impro=
ve<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given som=
e<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;topology and metric constraints.<br>
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.1.&nbsp; mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is=
 that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel att=
ribute,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;is reachable through unicast routing tables.&nbsp; In this cas=
e, the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachabi=
lity<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;condition changes.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, excep=
t that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but th=
e root<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root a=
ddress<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop addre=
ss in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in un=
icast<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be<=
br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific b=
enefit.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
It seems to me that x-PMSI address<br>
designates a different interface than<br>
the one used by the Tunnel itself. If<br>
that is correct, such mechanisms seems<br>
to assume that one equipment up on one<br>
interface will be up on the other<br>
interfaces. I have the impression that a<br>
configuration change in a PE may end up<br>
in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE<br>
still being reachable though the x-PMSI<br>
Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible<br>
scenario, the current mechanisms may not<br>
provide more efficient mechanism than<br>
then those of the standard BGP.<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, =
and in the Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some as=
sumptions&nbsp;about the state of the remote system based on a single event=
 or change of state. Usually, AFAIK, operators
 use not a physical interface but a loopback to associate with a tunnel. Wi=
th a fast IGP convergence, a loopback interface is reachable as long as the=
re's a path through the network between two nodes.</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Thanks for the clarification</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is<br>
either up or down and the determination<br>
of not being up if being down.&nbsp; I am not<br>
convinced that the two only states.<br>
Typically services under DDoS may be<br>
down for a small amount of time. While<br>
this affects the network, there is not<br>
always a clear cut between the PE being<br>
up or down. <br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt;&nbsp; In defect detection a system often has some hysteres=
is, i.e., time that the system has to wait to change its state. For example=
, BFD changes state from Up to Down after the system does not receive N con=
secutive packets (usually 3). As a result,
 in some cases, the system can be tuned to detect relatively short outages =
while in others be slower and miss short-lived outages.</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.6.&nbsp; BFD Discriminator Attribute<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint=
 BFD<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with=
 an<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;x-PMSI A-D Route.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP<b=
r>
&nbsp; &nbsp;attribute called the &quot;BFD Discriminator&quot;.&nbsp; It i=
s an optional<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;transitive BGP attribute.&nbsp; In Section 7.2, IANA is reques=
ted to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).&nbsp; The format of this =
attribute is<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;shown in Figure 1.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I feel that the sentence &quot;In Section ...<br>
TBA2).&quot; should be removed.<br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usu=
ally, this text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px; border:none; padding:0px">
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div>In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp;2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;3<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 =
4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; BFD Mode&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Reserved&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;BFD Discriminator&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Optional TLVs&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;~<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discr=
iminator Attribute<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Where:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; BFD Mode field is the one octet long.&nbsp; This speci=
fication defines<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUS=
T be zeroed<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; on transmission and ignored on receipt.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Morin, et al.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Expires April =
5, 2021&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[Page =
7]<br>
<br>
Internet-Draft&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;mVPN Fast Upstream Failover=
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; October 2020<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field th=
at MAY be<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future ext=
ensions.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.=
&nbsp; To allow<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as =
a variable-<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; length object.&nbsp; Figure 2 presents the Optional TL=
V format TLV that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; consists of:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *&nbsp; one octet-long field of TLV 's Type value (Sec=
tion 7.3)<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *&nbsp; one octet-long field of the length of the Valu=
e field in octets<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *&nbsp; variable length Value field.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.<b=
r>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I am wondering why the constraint on the<br>
length is not mentioned in the paragraph<br>
associated to the field - as opposed to<br>
a&nbsp; separate paragraph. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length=
 and length. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length =
of the Value field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV=
, including lengths of Type, Length and
 Value fields.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>you are correct that might have confused me.&nbsp;</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
[..]<br>
<br>
8.&nbsp; Security Considerations<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC=
6514]<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;and hence shares the security considerations respectively repr=
esented<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;in these specifications.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, i=
n turn,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;is based on [RFC5880].&nbsp; Security considerations relevant =
to each<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specificatio=
ns.&nbsp; An<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mec=
hanism<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be=
 active<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;at the same time.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
At a high level view - or at least my<br>
interpretation of it - the document<br>
proposes a mechanism based on BFD to<br>
detect fault in the path.&nbsp; Upon a fault<br>
detection a fail-over operation is<br>
instructed using BGP. This rocedure is<br>
expected to perform a faster fail-over<br>
than traditional BGP convergence on<br>
maintaining routing tables. Once the<br>
fail over has been performed, BFD is<br>
confirms the new path is &quot;legitimate&quot;<br>
and works.<br>
<br>
It seems correct to me that the current<br>
protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.<br>
That said, having BFD authentication<br>
based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that<br>
stronger primitives be recommended.<br>
While this does not concerns the current<br>
document, it seems to me that the<br>
information might be relayed to routing<br>
ADs. <br>
<br>
What remains unclear to me - and I<br>
assume this might be due to my lake or<br>
expertise in routing area - is the impact<br>
associated to performing a fail-over<br>
both on 1) the data plane and 2) the<br>
standard BGP way to establish routing<br>
tables. <br>
<br>
Regarding the data plane, I am wondering<br>
if fail-over results in a lost of<br>
packets for example - I suppose for<br>
example that at least the packets in the<br>
process of being forwarded might be<br>
lost. I believe that providing details<br>
on this may be good. <br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. W=
ith network failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the =
reaction to a network failure.&nbsp; If that is the case, then packet loss =
experienced by service due to the fail-over
 is the result of the network failure. Would you agree with that view? A sh=
orter failure detection interval&nbsp;and faster fail-over should minimize =
the packet loss and, as a result, the negative impact on the service itself=
.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definiti=
vely a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associate=
d to a fast-fail-over without any network failure.&nbsp; This would be usef=
ul for an operator to evaluate whether
 it should spend more time in diagnosing a network failure versus performin=
g a fast-fail-over.&nbsp;</div>
<div>Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator wou=
ld maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.&nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to c=
haracterize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it se=
ems to me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators.&=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
If there are any impacts I would like to<br>
understand also in which cases the<br>
decision to perform a failover operation<br>
may result in more harm than the event<br>
that has been over-interpreted. An<br>
hypothetical scenario could be that the<br>
non reception of a BFD packet is<br>
interpreted as a PE being down while it<br>
may not be correct and the PE might have<br>
been simply under stress. A &quot;too fast&quot; fail-over<br>
may over interpreted it and perform a<br>
fail-over. If such things could happen,<br>
an attacker could leverage a micro event<br>
to perform network operation that are<br>
not negligible. Another way to see that<br>
is that an attacker might not have<br>
direct access to the control plan, but<br>
could use the data plan to generate a<br>
stress and sort of control the fail<br>
over. It seems to me that some text<br>
might be welcome to prevent such cases<br>
to happen. This could be guidance for<br>
declaring a tunnel down for example. <br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval =
may produce a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus t=
riggering the fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue, so=
mething that an operator will consider
 when deploying the mechanism specified in this draft. Resulting from addre=
ssing RtgDir review the draft was updated to provide more guidance:</div>
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp;In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection=
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cau=
se<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.<br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is no=
t recommended these two mechanism co-exist.&nbsp;</div>
<div>How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the dr=
aft I agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relatio=
n to the impacts associated to a fail-over.&nbsp; In case the fast-failover=
 comes with no impact this becomes less
 of a problem for operator deploying it.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also appli=
es to the scenario you've presented.</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it would be good to add some<br>
text regarding the interferences with<br>
the non-fast forwarding fail over when<br>
performed by the standard BGP.<br>
Typically, my impression is that the<br>
fast fail-over mechanism is a local<br>
decision versus the BGP convergence that<br>
is more global. As a result, even with<br>
more time this two mechanisms may come<br>
with different outcomes. One such<br>
example to illustrate my purpose could<br>
be the following. Note that this is only<br>
illustrative of my purpose, and I let<br>
you find and pick on ethat is more<br>
appropriated.&nbsp; &nbsp;I am thinking of a case<br>
where a standby PE is be shared among<br>
multiple PEs - supposing this situation<br>
could occur.&nbsp; Typically, if PE_1, PE_2<br>
are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case<br>
PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a<br>
to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to<br>
PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end<br>
up in such situation while a local<br>
decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to<br>
switch to PE_1. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deployin=
g protection based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referre=
d to as M:N protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network =
failure, e.g., BFD, require a protocol
 to coordinate the switchover. This specification applies to a more special=
 deployment scenario where one working PE is protected by one or more stand=
by PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if =
M:N scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the =
issue.&nbsp;</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Richard Vallee (rvallee)" <rvallee@cisco.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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Subject: [bess] FW: [Pals] Mail regarding draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 15:09:24 -0500
Cc: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/-x-jhoThH9wkNxJsYxr0Ig240hE>
Subject: Re: [bess] New Extended Community for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb
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	charset=utf-8

Neeraj,

Thanks for reminding me to comment on the draft's Link Bandwidth =
procedures.

The existing link bandwidth feature, defined in an expired =
Internet-Draft, is a non-transitive extended community.

Part of the comments I'd given at prior BESS sessions at the microphone =
was that Juniper has used a similar code point with the transitive =
behavior.  This does create an interoperability problem between the =
published non-transitive and Juniper's transitive extended community.

Part of that discussion was with regards to whether this was motivation =
for Juniper to help clean up that situation.  I believe that based on =
the text in your current draft that making using of the transitive code =
point used by Juniper is likely not a good fit for your EVPN use case.  =
Based on that, I believe the request in the Internet-Draft for a new =
transitive code point is appropriate and I have no objections or further =
concerns.=20

By using split code points for general purpose BGP link bandwidth and =
EVPN link bandwidth, we accommodate not only load balancing at the EVPN =
level, but help avoid confusion when EVPN routes' nexthops may =
recursively resolve in some situations across other BGP transport routes =
that may have their own link bandwidth available.  Exactly how that =
interaction in recursive resolution is implemented will likely be =
somewhat vendor dependent as it currently is for existing BGP use cases =
of link-bandwidth.

Section 4.2 notes that the signaling may be used in an inter-as =
situation.  If my reading of the draft is correct, then the expected use =
case is primarily to add the new EVPN link bandwidth route on Type 1 =
routes.  If so, containing the scoping of the distribution of those =
routes is mostly limited to a set of EVPN domains that interact with =
each other.  You may wish to consider whether guidance for stripping =
this new Extended Community at such domain borders is necessary or not.

Thanks for addressing my concerns.

-- Jeff


> On Oct 14, 2020, at 2:24 PM, Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com> =
wrote:
> Hi John, Jeff,
>=20
> FYI - latest revision of this draft corrects the BW attribute to be =
transitive inline with Ali's explanation below: =
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-07.txt =
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-be=
ss-evpn-unequal-lb-07.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WpGNLTp80vY1SOBO7xUowqXjTj64Jwdl=
9QBfcynQ1zzzTYjC43p-e0M7uc4hpSk$>. Please do let us know if there are =
any further concerns.
>=20
> 4.2.  EVPN Link Bandwidth Extended Community
> =20
>    A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined to signal
>    local ES link bandwidth to remote PEs.  This extended-community is
>    defined of type 0x06 (EVPN).  IANA is requested to assign a =
sub-type
>    value of 0x10 for the EVPN Link bandwidth extended community, of =
type
>    0x06 (EVPN).  EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined as
>    transitive.
> =20
>    Link bandwidth extended community described in [BGP-LINK-BW] for
>    layer 3 VPNs was considered for re-use here.  This Link bandwidth
>    extended community is however defined in [BGP-LINK-BW] as optional
>    non-transitive.  Since it is not possible to change deployed =
behavior
>    of extended-community defined in [BGP-LINK-BW], it was decided to
>    define a new one.  In inter-AS scenarios, link-bandwidth needs to =
be
>    signaled to eBGP neighbors.  When signaled across AS boundary, this
>    attribute can be used to achieve optimal load-balancing towards
>    source PEs from a different AS.  This is applicable both when next-
>    hop is changed or unchanged across AS boundaries.
>=20
>=20
> Thanks,
> Neeraj
>=20
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:14 PM Ali Sajassi (sajassi) =
<sajassi=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org =
<mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:
> John, Jeff:
>=20
> =20
>=20
> During the presentation of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb -03 at the =
BESS WG meeting, you had a question/concern regarding why we are =
defining a new EC if we are doing conditional transitive. First, I=E2=80=99=
d like to make a correction to the preso by saying that the transitivity =
is not conditional and we will correct this in the next rev of the =
draft. So, the EC is simply transitive at all time. Given the EC defined =
in draft-ietf-idr-link-bandwidth-07.txt is non-transitive, we cannot use =
this EC for our application. That=E2=80=99s why we are defining a new =
one.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> Ali
>=20
> =20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess =
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess__;=
!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WpGNLTp80vY1SOBO7xUowqXjTj64Jwdl9QBfcynQ1zzzTYjC43p-e0M78itE=
AgE$>


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<html><head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"></=
head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-b=
reak: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Neeraj,<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">=
</div><div class=3D"">Thanks for reminding me to comment on the draft's Lin=
k Bandwidth procedures.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div clas=
s=3D"">The existing link bandwidth feature, defined in an expired Internet-=
Draft, is a non-transitive extended community.</div><div class=3D""><br cla=
ss=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Part of the comments I'd given at prior BESS =
sessions at the microphone was that Juniper has used a similar code point w=
ith the transitive behavior. &nbsp;This does create an interoperability pro=
blem between the published non-transitive and Juniper's transitive extended=
 community.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Part =
of that discussion was with regards to whether this was motivation for Juni=
per to help clean up that situation. &nbsp;I believe that based on the text=
 in your current draft that making using of the transitive code point used =
by Juniper is likely not a good fit for your EVPN use case. &nbsp;Based on =
that, I believe the request in the Internet-Draft for a new transitive code=
 point is appropriate and I have no objections or further concerns.&nbsp;</=
div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">By using split cod=
e points for general purpose BGP link bandwidth and EVPN link bandwidth, we=
 accommodate not only load balancing at the EVPN level, but help avoid conf=
usion when EVPN routes' nexthops may recursively resolve in some situations=
 across other BGP transport routes that may have their own link bandwidth a=
vailable. &nbsp;Exactly how that interaction in recursive resolution is imp=
lemented will likely be somewhat vendor dependent as it currently is for ex=
isting BGP use cases of link-bandwidth.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""=
></div><div class=3D"">Section 4.2 notes that the signaling may be used in =
an inter-as situation. &nbsp;If my reading of the draft is correct, then th=
e expected use case is primarily to add the new EVPN link bandwidth route o=
n Type 1 routes. &nbsp;If so, containing the scoping of the distribution of=
 those routes is mostly limited to a set of EVPN domains that interact with=
 each other. &nbsp;You may wish to consider whether guidance for stripping =
this new Extended Community at such domain borders is necessary or not.</di=
v><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks for addressin=
g my concerns.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">--=
 Jeff</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Oct 14, 2020, at 2:24 PM, Neeraj=
 Malhotra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:neeraj.ietf@gmail.com" class=3D"">neeraj.ie=
tf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=
=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div dir=3D"l=
tr" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hi John, Jeff,</=
div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">FYI - latest revision of this draft corrects the BW attribu=
te to be transitive inline with Ali's explanation below:&nbsp;<a href=3D"ht=
tps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-bess-e=
vpn-unequal-lb-07.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WpGNLTp80vY1SOBO7xUowqXjTj64Jwdl9QBfc=
ynQ1zzzTYjC43p-e0M7uc4hpSk$" class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/dra=
ft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-07.txt</a>.
 Please do let us know if there are any further concerns.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">4.2.&nbsp; EVPN Link Bandwidth Extended Com=
munity<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; A new EVPN Link Bandwidth exte=
nded community is defined to signal<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; local ES link bandwidth to rem=
ote PEs.&nbsp; This extended-community is<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; defined of type 0x06 (EVPN).&n=
bsp; IANA is requested to assign a sub-type<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; value of 0x10 for the EVPN Lin=
k bandwidth extended community, of type<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; 0x06 (EVPN).&nbsp; EVPN Link B=
andwidth extended community is defined as<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; transitive.<span class=3D""></=
span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; Link bandwidth extended commun=
ity described in [BGP-LINK-BW] for<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; layer 3 VPNs was considered fo=
r re-use here.&nbsp; This Link bandwidth<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; extended community is however =
defined in [BGP-LINK-BW] as optional<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; non-transitive.&nbsp; Since it=
 is not possible to change deployed behavior<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; of extended-community defined =
in [BGP-LINK-BW], it was decided to<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; define a new one.&nbsp; In int=
er-AS scenarios, link-bandwidth needs to be<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; signaled to eBGP neighbors.&nb=
sp; When signaled across AS boundary, this<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; attribute can be used to achie=
ve optimal load-balancing towards<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; source PEs from a different AS=
.&nbsp; This is applicable both when next-<span class=3D""></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; hop is changed or unchanged ac=
ross AS boundaries.</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standar=
d; font-size: 12px; white-space: normal;" class=3D"">Thanks,</span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot=
;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standar=
d; font-size: 12px; white-space: normal;" class=3D"">Neeraj</span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:14 PM Ali =
Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;sajassi=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.or=
g" class=3D"">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"">
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_3439128663922867166WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" class=3D"">John, Jeff:<u class=3D""></u><=
u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" class=3D"">During the pre=
sentation of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb -03 at the BESS WG meeting, yo=
u had a question/concern regarding why we are defining a new EC if we are d=
oing conditional transitive. First, I=E2=80=99d like
 to make a correction to the preso by saying that the transitivity is not c=
onditional and we will correct this in the next rev of the draft. So, the E=
C is simply transitive at all time. Given the EC defined in draft-ietf-idr-=
link-bandwidth-07.txt is non-transitive,
 we cannot use this EC for our application. That=E2=80=99s why we are defin=
ing a new one.
<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:11pt" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D"">=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" class=
=3D"">Cheers,<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" class=3D"">Ali<u class=3D""></u><u c=
lass=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11=
pt" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
BESS mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">BESS@ietf.org=
</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/bess__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WpGNLTp80vY1SOBO7xUowqXjTj64Jwdl9QBfcynQ1zzzTYjC43p-=
e0M78itEAgE$" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br class=3D"">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org" <draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org>,  mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] [Pals] Mail regarding draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions
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In my view, the discussion on this draft demonstrate that it is not yet =
ready for detailed discussion by these working groups next week.

- Stewart


> On 11 Nov 2020, at 16:32, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Andy, Stewart,
> =20
> Please see zzh> below.
> =20
> From: Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>=20=

> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 8:17 AM
> To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com =
<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net =
<mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; =
draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org>; mpls =
<mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>; pals@ietf.org =
<mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] Mail regarding =
draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions
> =20
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> =20
> Just to add a bit to Stewart's replies, I assume that you've read RFC =
8469, which was the result of the "disorderly queue of operators at the =
door of PALS".
> =20
> Zzh> Actually I need to read on that yet.
> =20
> Also, regarding VPLS, VPLS is just a full mesh of P2P Ethernet PWs, =
and while RFC 4762 is silent on the CW, in practice many (most?) VPLS =
implementations use the CW.
> =20
> Zzh> OK if VPLS relies on data plane mac learning for packets received =
from the core then indeed they=E2=80=99re a full mesh of PWs and =
that=E2=80=99s different from EVPN. I=E2=80=99ll need to dig deeper into =
that. Still, if we solve the EVPN problem using the generic =
fragmentation method, the solution works for VPLS/PW as well.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Andy
> =20
> =20
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:11 AM Stewart Bryant =
<stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Oh there is a deeper problem
>=20
> Unless you guarantee that you have defeated ECMP, which I don=E2=80=99t =
think the design does since first nibble is not 0000, I think the =
different fragments can get ECMPed differently. If that happens then =
(unlike the PW case) you cannot be sure that the fragments will arrive =
on the same LC, and that means that you need to support cross line card =
reassembly. If that happens your performance falls through the floor.
>=20
> Zzh> I see what you mean. Perhaps we can separate the one-octet =
=E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D from the existing IP =E2=80=9CNext =
Header=E2=80=9D space so that the first nibble is always 0000? That =
gives us 16 types of =E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 or we only =
need to make sure the nibble is not 4 or 6 =E2=80=93 that gives us more =
types.
>=20
> Zzh> Thanks.
>=20
> Zzh> Jeffrey
>=20
> Of course you could argue that it will mostly work, just like people =
argued that not having the CW would work well enough in PW, and it did =
mostly work, until it didn=E2=80=99t and we had a disorderly :) queue of =
operators at the door of PALS WG.
>=20
> Now what happens in the VPN cases in the existing design is that just =
like PW you will be seeing occasional Ethernet reordering, which mostly =
does not matter because what is being carried is IP, but as we found out =
in PALS it sometimes does matter an it is very difficult for the =
operators to diagnose, and then it does matter. However what you have is =
potentially much worse because you will accumulate fragments on =
different line cards, or have a very complex implementation problem to =
reassemble at speed.
>=20
> - Stewart
>=20
>=20
> Juniper Business Use Only
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_028D3256-2781-4381-A873-10DD17A58493
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">In =
my view, the discussion on this draft demonstrate that it is not yet =
ready for detailed discussion by these working groups next week.<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">- Stewart</div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 11 =
Nov 2020, at 16:32, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" class=3D"">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi Andy, Stewart,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Please see zzh&gt; =
below.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, =
225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Wednesday, November 11, =
2020 8:17 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Stewart Bryant &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org</a>; =
mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] Mail regarding =
draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; line-height: 12pt; background-color: =
rgb(255, 235, 156);" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class=3D"">[External Email. Be =
cautious of content]<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></b></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Just to add a bit to =
Stewart's replies, I assume that you've read RFC 8469, which was the =
result of the "disorderly queue of operators at the door of PALS".<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Zzh&gt; Actually I need to =
read on that yet.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Also, regarding VPLS, VPLS is just a =
full&nbsp;mesh of P2P Ethernet PWs, and while RFC&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">4762 is silent on the CW, in =
practice many (most?) VPLS implementations use the CW.</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Zzh&gt; OK if VPLS relies =
on data plane mac learning for packets received from the core then =
indeed they=E2=80=99re a full mesh of PWs and that=E2=80=99s different =
from EVPN. I=E2=80=99ll need to dig deeper into that. Still, if we solve =
the EVPN problem using the generic fragmentation method, the solution =
works for VPLS/PW as well.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">Cheers,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">Andy</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:11 AM Stewart Bryant =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:=
 none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; =
margin-right: 0in;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Oh =
there is a deeper problem<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Unless you =
guarantee that you have defeated ECMP, which I don=E2=80=99t think the =
design does since first nibble is not 0000, I think the different =
fragments can get ECMPed differently. If that happens then (unlike the =
PW case) you cannot be sure that the fragments will arrive on the same =
LC, and that means that you need to support cross line card reassembly. =
If that happens your performance falls through the floor.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Zzh&gt; I see =
what you mean. Perhaps we can separate the one-octet =E2=80=9CNext =
Header=E2=80=9D from the existing IP =E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D space =
so that the first nibble is always 0000? That gives us 16 types of =
=E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 or we only need to make sure the =
nibble is not 4 or 6 =E2=80=93 that gives us more types.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Zzh&gt; =
Thanks.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">Zzh&gt; Jeffrey<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Of course you =
could argue that it will mostly work, just like people argued that not =
having the CW would work well enough in PW, and it did mostly work, =
until it didn=E2=80=99t and we had a disorderly :) queue of operators at =
the door of PALS WG.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Now what happens in =
the VPN cases in the existing design is that just like PW you will be =
seeing occasional Ethernet reordering, which mostly does not matter =
because what is being carried is IP, but as we found out in PALS it =
sometimes does matter an it is very difficult for the operators to =
diagnose, and then it does matter. However what you have is potentially =
much worse because you will accumulate fragments on different line =
cards, or have a very complex implementation problem to reassemble at =
speed.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">- Stewart<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><p =
align=3D"Center" style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: =
Calibri; font-size: 7pt; margin: 15pt;" class=3D"">Juniper Business Use =
Only</p></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></body></html>=

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Hi Matthew

I have taken a look at this draft and think that it needs close review =
in PALS and ought to have a review in TICTOC.
It needs a much clearer description of the scenario. For instance in =
Figure 3 are A and G the same clock domain or is one the master. I think =
that for this to work one has to be the master otherwise I cannot see =
how you can ship an arbitrary bit stream between them. Even then it will =
not be easy and you need to give a lot of thought to the need for bit =
stuffing and bit slip since it is unlikely that you will generate =
perfect sync. In traditional wide area sync networks the protocols =
include features that support this action to cope with long term drift.
Also you talk about SyncE. That is specified to provide a 50bbp =
frequency accuracy, so this is going to need careful design and =
planning.
Also since this is an arbitrary bit stream, you have to comment on what =
you do when a packet is dropped.
Since this is PW encapsulation, it probably belongs in PALS, but I do =
have some reservations about what is proposed. This is not a turf issue =
for me, I just want to make sure it gets the  reviewed by the people =
that designed this type of technology in the past.
Best regards
Stewart

More comments inline.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
   Another example is addressing common ethernet
   control protocol transparency concerns for carrier ethernet services,
   beyond the behavior definitions of MEF specifications.
SB> That is a possible application, and that might include some of the =
link layer fragmentation that TSN is doing, but I do have to wonder if =
the network would destroy the other properties. This is certainly =
something worth discussing in DetNet.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


   To allow the clock of the transported signal to be carried across the
   PLE domain in a transparent way the network synchronization reference
   model and deployment scenario outlined in section 4.3.2 of [RFC4197]
   is applicable.




Gringeri, et al.           Expires May 6, 2021                  [Page 5]
=0C
Internet-Draft                     PLE                     November 2020


                       J
                       |                                         G
                       v                                         |
                       +-----+                 +-----+           v
      +-----+          |- - -|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D|- - -|          +-----+
      |     |<---------|.............................|<---------|     |
      | CE1 |          | PE1 |       VPWS      | PE2 |          | CE2 |
      |     |--------->|.............................|--------->|     |
      +-----+          |- - -|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D|- - -|          +-----+
           ^           +-----+<-------+------->+-----+
           |                          |              ^
           A                         +-+             |
                                     |I|             E
                                     +-+


                Figure 2: Relative Network Scenario Timing

   The attachment circuit clock E is generated by PE2 in reference to a
   common clock I.  For this to work the difference between clock I and
   A MUST be explicitly transferred between the PE1 and PE2 using the
   timestamp inside the RTP header.

   For the reverse direction PE1 does generate the clock J in reference
   to clock I and the clock difference between I and G.
SB> OK, so you are assuming that I is fully distributed through the =
network and that I does not change as it might if the clock master in I =
changes.
SB> That is not generally available in an MPLS network and we need to =
discuss the implications of providing it.
SB> This does not make sense to me and maybe I do not understand what =
you have in mind. CE would normally be a domain rather than a host, so =
the ingress and egress from CE1 and CE2 would need to be synchronous, =
but that is not what you are showing. However I think you have CE1 =
syncing CE2 and CE2 syncing CE1. I don=E2=80=99t think that will work.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
4.2.1.  PLE Control Word

   The format of the PLE control word is inline with the guidance in
   [RFC4385] and as shown in the below figure:
SB> You know that you are not required to follow this exact format.
SB> It would be worth losing at the SONET PW to see if that is more =
convenient.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

4.2.2.  RTP Header

   The RTP header MUST be included and is used for explicit transfer of
   timing information.  The RTP header is purely a formal reuse and RTP
   mechanisms, such as header extensions, contributing source (CSRC)
   list, padding, RTP Control Protocol (RTCP), RTP header compression,
   Secure Realtime Transport Protocol (SRTP), etc., are not applicable
   to PLE VPWS.
SB> RTP is clearly an option, but it is not clear whether it is better =
or not than creating custom CW as we did for the SONET PW.


   The format of the RTP header is as shown in the below figure:

        0                   1                   2                   3
        0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
       |V=3D2|P|X|  CC   |M|     PT      |       Sequence Number         =
|
       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
       |                           Timestamp                           |
       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
       |           Synchronization Source (SSRC) Identifier            |
       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+




                           Figure 5: RTP Header
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



   Sequence Number
SB> I am not sure we need two sequence numbers in the protocol - on in =
the CW and one in the RTP header

      The packet sequence number MUST continuously cycle from 0 to
      0xFFFF.  It is generated and processed in accordance with the
      rules established in [RFC3550].  The PLE receiver MUST sequence
      packets according to the Sequence Number field of the PLE control

SB> Also By using RTP you are of course tied to its S/N size. It is not =
clear to me that this is optimal.

      word and MAY verify correct sequencing using RTP Sequence Number
      field.

   Timestamp

      Timestamp values are used in accordance with the rules established
      in [RFC3550].  For bit-streams up to 200 Gbps the frequency of the
      clock used for generating timestamps MUST be 125 MHz based on a
      the common clock I.  For bit-streams above 200 Gbps the frequency
      MUST be 250 MHz.
SB> I am not sure how the TS is working her, because at a different =
point in the document I thought that you said that the TS was being used =
to convey the frequency difference between the clock domains.
SB> I think from this text you are only considering Ethernet bit =
streams. I am not sure you can describe arbitrary speeds with reference =
to a 200MHz clock. This needs a lot more thought.
SB> If you are only supporting syncE you need to say so, and of course =
reference the ITU-T material on the subject.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

5.  PLE Payload Layer

5.1.  Constant Bit Rate Payload

For CBR, I am not sure who is handling the clock slip.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


7.  Security Considerations

   As PLE is leveraging VPWS as transport mechanism the security
   considerations described in [RFC7432] and [RFC3985] are applicable.

SB> I think there is more to it that in this case. For example what =
about disruption to the clock service?

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

10.1.  Normative References
SB> I am surprised there are not G.8262 and G.8264 references since =
these are part of the SyncE specification.
SB> A lot of the difficulty in designing synchronisation architectures =
is in the management of the clock master and the actions to take when =
access to a clock fails.


--Apple-Mail=_A001556B-C799-459A-912B-2A92C13D1FFC
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
Matthew<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I have taken =
a look at this draft and think that it<span style=3D"white-space: =
pre-wrap;" class=3D""> needs close review in PALS and ought to have a =
review in TICTOC.</span><div class=3D""><pre style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">It needs a much clearer =
description of the scenario. For instance in Figure 3 are A and G the =
same clock domain or is one the master. I think that for this to work =
one has to be the master otherwise I cannot see how you can ship an =
arbitrary bit stream between them. Even then it will not be easy and you =
need to give a lot of thought to the need for bit stuffing and bit slip =
since it is unlikely that you will generate perfect sync. In traditional =
wide area sync networks the protocols include features that support this =
action to cope with long term drift.</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">Also you talk about =
SyncE. That is specified to provide a 50bbp frequency accuracy, so this =
is going to need careful design and planning.</pre><pre =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">Also =
since this is an arbitrary bit stream, you have to comment on what you =
do when a packet is dropped.</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">Since this is PW encapsulation, it =
probably belongs in PALS, but I do have some reservations about what is =
proposed. This is not a turf issue for me, I just want to make sure it =
gets the  reviewed by the people that designed this type of technology =
in the past.</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: =
pre-wrap;" class=3D"">Best regards</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">Stewart</pre><pre =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></pre><div class=3D""><span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap;" =
class=3D"">More comments inline.</span></div><pre style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></pre><pre =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" =
class=3D"">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">   Another example is =
addressing common ethernet
   control protocol transparency concerns for carrier ethernet services,
   beyond the behavior definitions of MEF specifications.</pre><pre =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">SB&gt; =
That is a possible application, and that might include some of the link =
layer fragmentation that TSN is doing, but I do have to wonder if the =
network would destroy the other properties. This is certainly something =
worth discussing in DetNet.
<br class=3D""></pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: =
pre-wrap;" class=3D"">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</pre><pre =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">

   To allow the clock of the transported signal to be carried across the
   PLE domain in a transparent way the network synchronization reference
   model and deployment scenario outlined in section 4.3.2 of [RFC4197]
   is applicable.




Gringeri, et al.           Expires May 6, 2021                  [Page 5]
=0C
Internet-Draft                     PLE                     November 2020


                       J
                       |                                         G
                       v                                         |
                       +-----+                 +-----+           v
      +-----+          |- - -|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D|- - -|          +-----+
      |     |&lt;---------|.............................|&lt;---------|  =
   |
      | CE1 |          | PE1 |       VPWS      | PE2 |          | CE2 |
      |     |---------&gt;|.............................|---------&gt;|  =
   |
      +-----+          |- - -|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D|- - -|          +-----+
           ^           +-----+&lt;-------+-------&gt;+-----+
           |                          |              ^
           A                         +-+             |
                                     |I|             E
                                     +-+


                Figure 2: Relative Network Scenario Timing

   The attachment circuit clock E is generated by PE2 in reference to a
   common clock I.  For this to work the difference between clock I and
   A MUST be explicitly transferred between the PE1 and PE2 using the
   timestamp inside the RTP header.

   For the reverse direction PE1 does generate the clock J in reference
   to clock I and the clock difference between I and G.</pre><pre =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">SB&gt; =
OK, so you are assuming that I is fully distributed through the network =
and that I does not change as it might if the clock master in I =
changes.</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: =
pre-wrap;" class=3D"">SB&gt; That is not generally available in an MPLS =
network and we need to discuss the implications of providing =
it.</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" =
class=3D"">SB&gt; This does not make sense to me and maybe I do not =
understand what you have in mind. CE would normally be a domain rather =
than a host, so the ingress and egress from CE1 and CE2 would need to be =
synchronous, but that is not what you are showing. However I think you =
have CE1 syncing CE2 and CE2 syncing CE1. I don=E2=80=99t think that =
will work.</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: =
pre-wrap;" class=3D"">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</pre><pre =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">4.2.1. =
 PLE Control Word

   The format of the PLE control word is inline with the guidance in
   [RFC4385] and as shown in the below figure:</pre><pre =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">SB&gt; =
You know that you are not required to follow this exact =
format.</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: =
pre-wrap;" class=3D"">SB&gt; It would be worth losing at the SONET PW to =
see if that is more convenient.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

4.2.2.  RTP Header</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></pre><pre =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">   =
The RTP header MUST be included and is used for explicit transfer of
   timing information.  The RTP header is purely a formal reuse and RTP
   mechanisms, such as header extensions, contributing source (CSRC)
   list, padding, RTP Control Protocol (RTCP), RTP header compression,
   Secure Realtime Transport Protocol (SRTP), etc., are not applicable
   to PLE VPWS.
<pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" =
class=3D"">SB&gt; RTP is clearly an option, but it is not clear whether =
it is better or not than creating custom CW as we did for the SONET =
PW.</pre><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>
   The format of the RTP header is as shown in the below figure:

        0                   1                   2                   3
        0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
       |V=3D2|P|X|  CC   |M|     PT      |       Sequence Number         =
|
       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
       |                           Timestamp                           |
       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
       |           Synchronization Source (SSRC) Identifier            |
       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
<br class=3D""></pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: =
pre-wrap;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">

                           Figure 5: RTP Header
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



   Sequence Number</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">SB&gt; I am not sure we need two =
sequence numbers in the protocol - on in the CW and one in the RTP =
header

      The packet sequence number MUST continuously cycle from 0 to
      0xFFFF.  It is generated and processed in accordance with the
      rules established in [RFC3550].  The PLE receiver MUST sequence
      packets according to the Sequence Number field of the PLE control
<br class=3D""></pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: =
pre-wrap;" class=3D"">SB&gt; Also By using RTP you are of course tied to =
its S/N size. It is not clear to me that this is optimal.</pre><pre =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">
      word and MAY verify correct sequencing using RTP Sequence Number
      field.

   Timestamp

      Timestamp values are used in accordance with the rules established
      in [RFC3550].  For bit-streams up to 200 Gbps the frequency of the
      clock used for generating timestamps MUST be 125 MHz based on a
      the common clock I.  For bit-streams above 200 Gbps the frequency
      MUST be 250 MHz.</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">SB&gt; I am not sure how the TS is =
working her, because at a different point in the document I thought that =
you said that the TS was being used to convey the frequency difference =
between the clock domains.</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">SB&gt; I think from this text you are =
only considering Ethernet bit streams. I am not sure you can describe =
arbitrary speeds with reference to a 200MHz clock. This needs a lot more =
thought.</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: =
pre-wrap;" class=3D"">SB&gt; If you are only supporting syncE you need =
to say so, and of course reference the ITU-T material on the =
subject.</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: =
pre-wrap;" class=3D"">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">
5.  PLE Payload Layer

5.1.  Constant Bit Rate Payload

For CBR, I am not sure who is handling the clock slip.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


7.  Security Considerations

   As PLE is leveraging VPWS as transport mechanism the security
   considerations described in [RFC7432] and [RFC3985] are applicable.

SB&gt; I think there is more to it that in this case. For example what =
about disruption to the clock service?

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

10.1.  Normative References</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D"">SB&gt; I am surprised there are not =
G.8262 and G.8264 references since these are part of the SyncE =
specification.</pre><pre style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: =
pre-wrap;" class=3D"">SB&gt; A lot of the difficulty in designing =
synchronisation architectures is in the management of the clock master =
and the actions to take when access to a clock fails.</pre><pre =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></pre></div></div></body></html>=

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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 07:47:11 -0800
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To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
Cc: "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>,  "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
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Hi Daniel,
thank you for your kind consideration of my notes. I've top-copied what
appeared to me as the remaining open issues. I hope I've not missed any of
your questions. Please find my notes in-line below tagged GIM>>. Attached
are the updated working version and the new diff.

Regards,
Greg

<mglt>
sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively
a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to
a fast-fail-over without any network failure.  This would be useful for an
operator to evaluate whether it should spend more time in diagnosing a
network failure versus performing a fast-fail-over.
Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would
maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.

At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to
characterize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it
seems to me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the
operators.
</mglt>
GIM>> I would like to add a new paragraph in Section 3.1:
NEW TEXT:
   All methods described in this section may produce false-negative
   state changes that can be the trigger for an unnecessary failover
   negatively impacting the multicast service provided by the VPN.  An
   operator expected to consider the network environment and use
   available controls of the mechanism used to determine the status of a
   P-tunnel.

Would the new text be helpful?

<mglt>
Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not
recommended these two mechanism co-exist.
How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft I
agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to
the impacts associated to a fail-over.  In case the fast-failover comes
with no impact this becomes less of a problem for operator deploying it.

</mglt>
GIM>> I hope that the new text presented above addresses this concern.

<mglt>
I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N
scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the
issue.
</mglt>
GIM>> I propose adding the clarification of the use of the Sandby PE in
Section 4:
OLD TEXT:
   The procedures described below are limited to the case where the site
   that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to
   simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described.
NEW TEXT:
   The procedures described below are limited to the case where the site
   that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to
   simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described.  Such
   a redundancy protection scheme, referred to as 1:N protection, is the
   special case of M:N protection, where M working instances are sharing
   protection of the N standby instances.  In addition to a network
   failure detection mechanism, the latter scheme requires using a
   mechanism to coordinate the failover among working instances.  For
   that reason, M:N protection is outside the scope of this
   specification.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:48 AM Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
> Thanks for the response and clarifications. Most of my comments have been
> addressed/answered. However, it seems to me that some additional text might
> be added to the security consideration section document the impact on the
> network of a fast-failover operation. The knowledge of these impact might
> be useful for an operator to determine when the trigger can be done.
>
> Please see more comments inline.
>
> Yours,
> Daniel
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:13 PM
> *To:* Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
> *Cc:* secdir@ietf.org <secdir@ietf.org>; BESS <bess@ietf.org>;
> last-call@ietf.org <last-call@ietf.org>;
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org <
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Secdir last call review of
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
>
> Hi Daniel,
> many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all are
> much appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to your
> comments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM>>.
> Attached are the new working version and the diff to -12.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatracker <
> noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Reviewer: Daniel Migault
> Review result: Has Nits
>
> Hi,
>
>
> I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate's ongoing
> effort to
> review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.  These comments were
> written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.  Document
> authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just
> like
> any other IETF Last Call comments.  Please note also that my expertise in
> BGP is
> limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.
>
> Review Results: Has Nits
>
> Please find my comments below.
>
> Yours,
> Daniel
>
>
>                   Multicast VPN Fast Upstream Failover
>                  draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
>
> Abstract
>
>    This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures that
>    allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstream PEs
>    to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels) when
>    selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extending BGP
>    MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised toward a
>    Standby Upstream PE.
>
> <mglt>
> Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN
> designates multicast VPN, it might be
> clarifying to specify the acronym in the
> first sentence. This would later make
> the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> I've updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mVPN/MVPN/
> throughout the document.
>
>
>
> 1.  Introduction
>
>    In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable to
>    provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on
>    different types of failures.  This document addresses failures of
>    elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs connected
>    to VPN sites with receivers.
>
> <mglt>
> Well I am not familiar with neither BGP
> nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS
> and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am
> wondering if there is a distinction
> between the two and a preferred way to
> designate these VPNs.  My understanding
> is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the
> VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone
> for the transport.  Since the PE are
> connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4
> needs to be labeled.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> I understand that this document often sends the reader to check RFC
> 6513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of providing a
> multicast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed on the MPLS data plane
> using the BGP control plane.
>
>
>    Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a PE
>    connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status of
>    P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a given
>    (C-S, C-G).  This method does not provide a "fast failover" solution
> <mglt>
> I understand the limitation is due to
> BGP convergence.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provides the
> service restoration functionality but the restoration time is significant
> and affects the experience of a client.
>
>    when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism
>    described in Section 4 for a "fast failover" solution.
>
>    Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up failover by
>    not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at recovery
>    time.
>
>    Moreover, section 5 describes a "hot leaf standby" mechanism, that
>    uses a combination of these two mechanisms.  This approach has
>    similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to improve
>    failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given some
>    topology and metric constraints.
>
>
> [...]
>
> 3.1.1.  mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking
>
>    A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is that
>    the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute,
>    is reachable through unicast routing tables.  In this case, the
>    downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachability
>    condition changes.
>
>    That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, except that
>    the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but the root
>    address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.
>
>    If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root address
>    of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop address in
>    the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in unicast
>    routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be
>    unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific benefit.
>
> <mglt>
> It seems to me that x-PMSI address
> designates a different interface than
> the one used by the Tunnel itself. If
> that is correct, such mechanisms seems
> to assume that one equipment up on one
> interface will be up on the other
> interfaces. I have the impression that a
> configuration change in a PE may end up
> in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE
> still being reachable though the x-PMSI
> Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible
> scenario, the current mechanisms may not
> provide more efficient mechanism than
> then those of the standard BGP.
>
> GIM>> That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, and in the
> Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some
> assumptions about the state of the remote system based on a single event or
> change of state. Usually, AFAIK, operators use not a physical interface but
> a loopback to associate with a tunnel. With a fast IGP convergence, a
> loopback interface is reachable as long as there's a path through the
> network between two nodes.
> <mglt>
> Thanks for the clarification
> </mglt>
>
>
> Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is
> either up or down and the determination
> of not being up if being down.  I am not
> convinced that the two only states.
> Typically services under DDoS may be
> down for a small amount of time. While
> this affects the network, there is not
> always a clear cut between the PE being
> up or down.
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>>  In defect detection a system often has some hysteresis, i.e., time
> that the system has to wait to change its state. For example, BFD changes
> state from Up to Down after the system does not receive N consecutive
> packets (usually 3). As a result, in some cases, the system can be tuned to
> detect relatively short outages while in others be slower and miss
> short-lived outages.
>
>
>
> [...]
>
> 3.1.6.  BFD Discriminator Attribute
>
>    P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint BFD
>    session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with an
>    x-PMSI A-D Route.
>
>    This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP
>    attribute called the "BFD Discriminator".  It is an optional
>    transitive BGP attribute.  In Section 7.2, IANA is requested to
>    allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).  The format of this attribute is
>    shown in Figure 1.
>
> <mglt>
> I feel that the sentence "In Section ...
> TBA2)." should be removed.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usually, this
> text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read
>
> In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.
>
>
>
>
>        0                   1                   2                   3
>        0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       |    BFD Mode   |                  Reserved                     |
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       |                       BFD Discriminator                       |
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       ~                         Optional TLVs                         ~
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
>             Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discriminator Attribute
>
>    Where:
>
>       BFD Mode field is the one octet long.  This specification defines
>       the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.
>
>       Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUST be zeroed
>       on transmission and ignored on receipt.
>
>       BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.
>
>
>
>
>
> Morin, et al.             Expires April 5, 2021                 [Page 7]
>
> Internet-Draft         mVPN Fast Upstream Failover          October 2020
>
>
>       Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field that MAY be
>       used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future extensions.
>       TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.  To allow
>       for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as a variable-
>       length object.  Figure 2 presents the Optional TLV format TLV that
>       consists of:
>
>       *  one octet-long field of TLV 's Type value (Section 7.3)
>
>       *  one octet-long field of the length of the Value field in octets
>
>       *  variable length Value field.
>
>       The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.
> <mglt>
> I am wondering why the constraint on the
> length is not mentioned in the paragraph
> associated to the field - as opposed to
> a  separate paragraph.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length and
> length. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length of
> the Value field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV,
> including lengths of Type, Length and Value fields.
>
> <mglt>
> you are correct that might have confused me.
> </mglt>
>
>
> [..]
>
> 8.  Security Considerations
>
>    This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC6514]
>    and hence shares the security considerations respectively represented
>    in these specifications.
>
>    This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, in turn,
>    is based on [RFC5880].  Security considerations relevant to each
>    protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specifications.  An
>    implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mechanism
>    to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be active
>    at the same time.
>
> <mglt>
> At a high level view - or at least my
> interpretation of it - the document
> proposes a mechanism based on BFD to
> detect fault in the path.  Upon a fault
> detection a fail-over operation is
> instructed using BGP. This rocedure is
> expected to perform a faster fail-over
> than traditional BGP convergence on
> maintaining routing tables. Once the
> fail over has been performed, BFD is
> confirms the new path is "legitimate"
> and works.
>
> It seems correct to me that the current
> protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.
> That said, having BFD authentication
> based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that
> stronger primitives be recommended.
> While this does not concerns the current
> document, it seems to me that the
> information might be relayed to routing
> ADs.
>
> What remains unclear to me - and I
> assume this might be due to my lake or
> expertise in routing area - is the impact
> associated to performing a fail-over
> both on 1) the data plane and 2) the
> standard BGP way to establish routing
> tables.
>
> Regarding the data plane, I am wondering
> if fail-over results in a lost of
> packets for example - I suppose for
> example that at least the packets in the
> process of being forwarded might be
> lost. I believe that providing details
> on this may be good.
>
> GIM>> You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. With
> network failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the
> reaction to a network failure.  If that is the case, then packet loss
> experienced by service due to the fail-over is the result of the network
> failure. Would you agree with that view? A shorter failure detection
> interval and faster fail-over should minimize the packet loss and, as a
> result, the negative impact on the service itself.
>
> <mglt>
> sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively
> a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to
> a fast-fail-over without any network failure.  This would be useful for an
> operator to evaluate whether it should spend more time in diagnosing a
> network failure versus performing a fast-fail-over.
> Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would
> maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.
>
> At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to
> characterize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it
> seems to me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the
> operators.
> </mglt>
>
> If there are any impacts I would like to
> understand also in which cases the
> decision to perform a failover operation
> may result in more harm than the event
> that has been over-interpreted. An
> hypothetical scenario could be that the
> non reception of a BFD packet is
> interpreted as a PE being down while it
> may not be correct and the PE might have
> been simply under stress. A "too fast" fail-over
> may over interpreted it and perform a
> fail-over. If such things could happen,
> an attacker could leverage a micro event
> to perform network operation that are
> not negligible. Another way to see that
> is that an attacker might not have
> direct access to the control plan, but
> could use the data plan to generate a
> stress and sort of control the fail
> over. It seems to me that some text
> might be welcome to prevent such cases
> to happen. This could be guidance for
> declaring a tunnel down for example.
>
> GIM>> I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval may
> produce a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus
> triggering the fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue,
> something that an operator will consider when deploying the mechanism
> specified in this draft. Resulting from addressing RtgDir review the draft
> was updated to provide more guidance:
>    In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection
>    methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cause
>    unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.
> <mglt>
> Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not
> recommended these two mechanism co-exist.
> How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft
> I agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to
> the impacts associated to a fail-over.  In case the fast-failover comes
> with no impact this becomes less of a problem for operator deploying it.
>
> </mglt>
> Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also applies
> to the scenario you've presented.
>
>
> Similarly, it would be good to add some
> text regarding the interferences with
> the non-fast forwarding fail over when
> performed by the standard BGP.
> Typically, my impression is that the
> fast fail-over mechanism is a local
> decision versus the BGP convergence that
> is more global. As a result, even with
> more time this two mechanisms may come
> with different outcomes. One such
> example to illustrate my purpose could
> be the following. Note that this is only
> illustrative of my purpose, and I let
> you find and pick on ethat is more
> appropriated.   I am thinking of a case
> where a standby PE is be shared among
> multiple PEs - supposing this situation
> could occur.  Typically, if PE_1, PE_2
> are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case
> PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a
> to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to
> PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end
> up in such situation while a local
> decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to
> switch to PE_1.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deploying
> protection based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referred
> to as M:N protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network
> failure, e.g., BFD, require a protocol to coordinate the switchover. This
> specification applies to a more special deployment scenario where one
> working PE is protected by one or more standby PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.
>
> <mglt>
> I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N
> scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the
> issue.
> </mglt>
>

--00000000000001992005b3ead4c2
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,<div>thank you for your kind consideration of my=
 notes. I&#39;ve top-copied what appeared to me as the remaining open issue=
s. I hope I&#39;ve not=C2=A0missed=C2=A0any of your questions. Please find =
my notes in-line below tagged GIM&gt;&gt;. Attached are the updated working=
 version and the new diff.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg=
</div><div><br></div><div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>sure. If you know the network is =
down, then fast fail-over is definitively a plus. What I think could be use=
ful is to evaluate the cost associated to a fast-fail-over without any netw=
ork failure.=C2=A0 This would be useful for an operator to evaluate whether=
 it should spend more time in diagnosing a network failure versus performin=
g a fast-fail-over. <br>Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at al=
l, one operator would maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node=
 rather than 3. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<br><br>At that point, it seems to me t=
hat additional text coudl be added to characterize the impact. These could =
be high level and indicative, but it seems to me that knowing these impacts=
 presents some value to the operators. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<br>&lt;/mglt&gt=
;<br></div><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I would like to add a new paragraph in Section =
3.1:</div><div>NEW TEXT:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0All methods described in th=
is section may produce false-negative<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0state changes that ca=
n be the trigger for an unnecessary failover<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0negatively imp=
acting the multicast service provided by the VPN.=C2=A0 An<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
operator expected to consider the network environment and use<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0available controls of the mechanism used to determine the status of a<br=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0P-tunnel.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Would the new text be =
helpful?</div><div><br></div><div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>Thanks for the feed back,=
 It seems to me important to mention it is not recommended these two mechan=
ism co-exist. <br>How to avoid false negative transition might be out of sc=
ope of the draft I agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especial=
ly in relation to the impacts associated to a fail-over.=C2=A0 In case the =
fast-failover comes with no impact this becomes less of a problem for opera=
tor deploying it.<br>=C2=A0<br>&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></div><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I ho=
pe that the new text presented above addresses this concern.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>I understand the document is addressing a 1:N sc=
enario. That said, if M:N scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to=
 me worth raising the issue. <br>&lt;/mglt&gt;<br></div><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I =
propose adding the clarification of the use of the Sandby PE in Section 4:<=
/div><div>OLD TEXT:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The procedures described below a=
re limited to the case where the site<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0that contains C-S is =
connected to two or more PEs, though, to<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0simplify the descr=
iption, the case of dual-homing is described.<br></div><div>NEW TEXT:</div>=
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The procedures described below are limited to the case wh=
ere the site<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0that contains C-S is connected to two or more =
PEs, though, to<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0simplify the description, the case of dual-=
homing is described.=C2=A0 Such<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0a redundancy protection sch=
eme, referred to as 1:N protection, is the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0special case of =
M:N protection, where M working instances are sharing<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0prote=
ction of the N standby instances.=C2=A0 In addition to a network<br>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0failure detection mechanism, the latter scheme requires using a<br>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanism to coordinate the failover among working instances.=
=C2=A0 For<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0that reason, M:N protection is outside the scope=
 of this<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0specification.=C2=A0<br></div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 11, 2020=
 at 8:48 AM Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.co=
m">daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Greg,=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks for the response and clarifications. Most of my comments have been a=
ddressed/answered. However, it seems to me that some additional text might =
be added to the security consideration section document the impact on the n=
etwork of a fast-failover operation.
 The knowledge of these impact might be useful for an operator to determine=
 when the trigger can be done.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Please see more comments inline.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Yours,=C2=A0<br>
Daniel=C2=A0</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-6627391055567166672appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-6627391055567166672divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font fac=
e=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>Fro=
m:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com=
" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ietf=
.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;; BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">last-call@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">last-call@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-=
mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fas=
t-failover.all@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast=
-failover.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failove=
r.all@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fa=
ilover-11</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,
<div>many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all ar=
e much appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to you=
r comments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM&gt=
;&gt;. Attached are the new working version
 and the diff to -12.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatra=
cker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">noreply@ietf=
.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Reviewer: Daniel Migault<br>
Review result: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Hi, <br>
<br>
<br>
I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate&#39;s ongoing =
effort to<br>
review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.=C2=A0 These comments=
 were<br>
written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.=C2=A0 Doc=
ument<br>
authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just l=
ike<br>
any other IETF Last Call comments.=C2=A0 Please note also that my expertise=
 in BGP is<br>
limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.=C2=A0 <b=
r>
<br>
Review Results: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Please find my comments below. <br>
<br>
Yours, <br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Multicast VP=
N Fast Upstream Failover<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-be=
ss-mvpn-fast-failover-11<br>
<br>
Abstract<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures =
that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstr=
eam PEs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels=
) when<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extend=
ing BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised tow=
ard a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Standby Upstream PE.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN<br>
designates multicast VPN, it might be<br>
clarifying to specify the acronym in the<br>
first sentence. This would later make<br>
the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I&#39;ve updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mV=
PN/MVPN/ throughout the document.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
1.=C2=A0 Introduction<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable =
to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0different types of failures.=C2=A0 This document addresses fai=
lures of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs conn=
ected<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to VPN sites with receivers.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Well I am not familiar with neither BGP<br>
nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS<br>
and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am<br>
wondering if there is a distinction<br>
between the two and a preferred way to<br>
designate these VPNs.=C2=A0 My understanding<br>
is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the<br>
VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone<br>
for the transport.=C2=A0 Since the PE are<br>
connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4<br>
needs to be labeled. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I understand that this document often sends the reader to =
check RFC 6513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of provid=
ing a multicast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed=C2=A0on the MPLS d=
ata plane using the BGP control plane.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a =
PE<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status =
of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a =
given<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(C-S, C-G).=C2=A0 This method does not provide a &quot;fast fa=
ilover&quot; solution<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I understand the limitation is due to<br>
BGP convergence. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provide=
s the service restoration functionality but the restoration time is signifi=
cant and affects the experience of a client.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0described in Section 4 for a &quot;fast failover&quot; solutio=
n.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up fail=
over by<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at re=
covery<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0time.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Moreover, section 5 describes a &quot;hot leaf standby&quot; m=
echanism, that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0uses a combination of these two mechanisms.=C2=A0 This approac=
h has<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to impro=
ve<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given som=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0topology and metric constraints.<br>
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.1.=C2=A0 mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is=
 that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel att=
ribute,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is reachable through unicast routing tables.=C2=A0 In this cas=
e, the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachabi=
lity<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0condition changes.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, excep=
t that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but th=
e root<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root a=
ddress<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop addre=
ss in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in un=
icast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific b=
enefit.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
It seems to me that x-PMSI address<br>
designates a different interface than<br>
the one used by the Tunnel itself. If<br>
that is correct, such mechanisms seems<br>
to assume that one equipment up on one<br>
interface will be up on the other<br>
interfaces. I have the impression that a<br>
configuration change in a PE may end up<br>
in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE<br>
still being reachable though the x-PMSI<br>
Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible<br>
scenario, the current mechanisms may not<br>
provide more efficient mechanism than<br>
then those of the standard BGP.<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, =
and in the Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some as=
sumptions=C2=A0about the state of the remote system based on a single event=
 or change of state. Usually, AFAIK, operators
 use not a physical interface but a loopback to associate with a tunnel. Wi=
th a fast IGP convergence, a loopback interface is reachable as long as the=
re&#39;s a path through the network between two nodes.</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Thanks for the clarification</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is<br>
either up or down and the determination<br>
of not being up if being down.=C2=A0 I am not<br>
convinced that the two only states.<br>
Typically services under DDoS may be<br>
down for a small amount of time. While<br>
this affects the network, there is not<br>
always a clear cut between the PE being<br>
up or down. <br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 In defect detection a system often has some hysteres=
is, i.e., time that the system has to wait to change its state. For example=
, BFD changes state from Up to Down after the system does not receive N con=
secutive packets (usually 3). As a result,
 in some cases, the system can be tuned to detect relatively short outages =
while in others be slower and miss short-lived outages.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.6.=C2=A0 BFD Discriminator Attribute<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint=
 BFD<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0x-PMSI A-D Route.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attribute called the &quot;BFD Discriminator&quot;.=C2=A0 It i=
s an optional<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0transitive BGP attribute.=C2=A0 In Section 7.2, IANA is reques=
ted to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).=C2=A0 The format of this =
attribute is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0shown in Figure 1.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I feel that the sentence &quot;In Section ...<br>
TBA2).&quot; should be removed.<br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usu=
ally, this text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<div>In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A03<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 =
4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Mode=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reserved=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0BFD Discriminator=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ~=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Optional TLVs=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0~<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discr=
iminator Attribute<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Where:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Mode field is the one octet long.=C2=A0 This speci=
fication defines<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUS=
T be zeroed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on transmission and ignored on receipt.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Morin, et al.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Expires April =
5, 2021=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[Page =
7]<br>
<br>
Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mVPN Fast Upstream Failover=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 October 2020<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field th=
at MAY be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future ext=
ensions.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.=
=C2=A0 To allow<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as =
a variable-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 length object.=C2=A0 Figure 2 presents the Optional TL=
V format TLV that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 consists of:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 one octet-long field of TLV &#39;s Type value =
(Section 7.3)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 one octet-long field of the length of the Valu=
e field in octets<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 variable length Value field.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.<b=
r>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I am wondering why the constraint on the<br>
length is not mentioned in the paragraph<br>
associated to the field - as opposed to<br>
a=C2=A0 separate paragraph. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length=
 and length. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length =
of the Value field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV=
, including lengths of Type, Length and
 Value fields.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>you are correct that might have confused me.=C2=A0</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
[..]<br>
<br>
8.=C2=A0 Security Considerations<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC=
6514]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and hence shares the security considerations respectively repr=
esented<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in these specifications.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, i=
n turn,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is based on [RFC5880].=C2=A0 Security considerations relevant =
to each<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specificatio=
ns.=C2=A0 An<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mec=
hanism<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be=
 active<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0at the same time.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
At a high level view - or at least my<br>
interpretation of it - the document<br>
proposes a mechanism based on BFD to<br>
detect fault in the path.=C2=A0 Upon a fault<br>
detection a fail-over operation is<br>
instructed using BGP. This rocedure is<br>
expected to perform a faster fail-over<br>
than traditional BGP convergence on<br>
maintaining routing tables. Once the<br>
fail over has been performed, BFD is<br>
confirms the new path is &quot;legitimate&quot;<br>
and works.<br>
<br>
It seems correct to me that the current<br>
protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.<br>
That said, having BFD authentication<br>
based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that<br>
stronger primitives be recommended.<br>
While this does not concerns the current<br>
document, it seems to me that the<br>
information might be relayed to routing<br>
ADs. <br>
<br>
What remains unclear to me - and I<br>
assume this might be due to my lake or<br>
expertise in routing area - is the impact<br>
associated to performing a fail-over<br>
both on 1) the data plane and 2) the<br>
standard BGP way to establish routing<br>
tables. <br>
<br>
Regarding the data plane, I am wondering<br>
if fail-over results in a lost of<br>
packets for example - I suppose for<br>
example that at least the packets in the<br>
process of being forwarded might be<br>
lost. I believe that providing details<br>
on this may be good. <br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. W=
ith network failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the =
reaction to a network failure.=C2=A0 If that is the case, then packet loss =
experienced by service due to the fail-over
 is the result of the network failure. Would you agree with that view? A sh=
orter failure detection interval=C2=A0and faster fail-over should minimize =
the packet loss and, as a result, the negative impact on the service itself=
.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definiti=
vely a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associate=
d to a fast-fail-over without any network failure.=C2=A0 This would be usef=
ul for an operator to evaluate whether
 it should spend more time in diagnosing a network failure versus performin=
g a fast-fail-over.=C2=A0</div>
<div>Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator wou=
ld maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to c=
haracterize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it se=
ems to me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
If there are any impacts I would like to<br>
understand also in which cases the<br>
decision to perform a failover operation<br>
may result in more harm than the event<br>
that has been over-interpreted. An<br>
hypothetical scenario could be that the<br>
non reception of a BFD packet is<br>
interpreted as a PE being down while it<br>
may not be correct and the PE might have<br>
been simply under stress. A &quot;too fast&quot; fail-over<br>
may over interpreted it and perform a<br>
fail-over. If such things could happen,<br>
an attacker could leverage a micro event<br>
to perform network operation that are<br>
not negligible. Another way to see that<br>
is that an attacker might not have<br>
direct access to the control plan, but<br>
could use the data plan to generate a<br>
stress and sort of control the fail<br>
over. It seems to me that some text<br>
might be welcome to prevent such cases<br>
to happen. This could be guidance for<br>
declaring a tunnel down for example. <br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval =
may produce a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus t=
riggering the fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue, so=
mething that an operator will consider
 when deploying the mechanism specified in this draft. Resulting from addre=
ssing RtgDir review the draft was updated to provide more guidance:</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cau=
se<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.<br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is no=
t recommended these two mechanism co-exist.=C2=A0</div>
<div>How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the dr=
aft I agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relatio=
n to the impacts associated to a fail-over.=C2=A0 In case the fast-failover=
 comes with no impact this becomes less
 of a problem for operator deploying it.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also appli=
es to the scenario you&#39;ve presented.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it would be good to add some<br>
text regarding the interferences with<br>
the non-fast forwarding fail over when<br>
performed by the standard BGP.<br>
Typically, my impression is that the<br>
fast fail-over mechanism is a local<br>
decision versus the BGP convergence that<br>
is more global. As a result, even with<br>
more time this two mechanisms may come<br>
with different outcomes. One such<br>
example to illustrate my purpose could<br>
be the following. Note that this is only<br>
illustrative of my purpose, and I let<br>
you find and pick on ethat is more<br>
appropriated.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I am thinking of a case<br>
where a standby PE is be shared among<br>
multiple PEs - supposing this situation<br>
could occur.=C2=A0 Typically, if PE_1, PE_2<br>
are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case<br>
PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a<br>
to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to<br>
PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end<br>
up in such situation while a local<br>
decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to<br>
switch to PE_1. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deployin=
g protection based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referre=
d to as M:N protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network =
failure, e.g., BFD, require a protocol
 to coordinate the switchover. This specification applies to a more special=
 deployment scenario where one working PE is protected by one or more stand=
by PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if =
M:N scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the =
issue.=C2=A0</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

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From: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
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Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 17:02:26 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/LHZDx0hUNidegXE1JIDAhJFXgKw>
Subject: Re: [bess] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
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Hi Greg,

Thanks for the response Greg. This seems to go in the right direction, but =
I think it would be nice to detail a bit on the negative impact that may re=
sult from the fast-fail over.

"""
unnecessary failover negatively impacting the multicast service
"""

I apology to appear being maybe a bit picky, but, at least to me, the secur=
ity consideration section is the place to point on specific impacts that an=
 operator may not have thought of and the text appears to me a bit too vagu=
e on what can impact negatively the multicast service.

Let me dig a bit on what I mean and probably what information I would have =
expected to find. Maybe that would have been useful I provided those earlie=
r. Again, not being an expert in this area, please take my following recomm=
endations with a pitch of salt.

What I would like, for example, to understand is whether having a fast-fail=
over between nodes that work properly results in a packet lost or not.
I also envision that in some cases, this will result in packet re-ordering =
which might result in packet being rejected by the end node.
In IPsec vpns, we have specific counters, keys that make fail-over relative=
ly complex as a context has to be maintained between the old and the new no=
de to pass anti replay protection and enable appropriated encryption/decryp=
tion. It would be good to clarify if any parameters need - or not - to be s=
ynchronized between the two nodes as its transfer represents a risk of disr=
upting the traffic, and thus may be mentioned.
There probably other points I am missing due to my lack of expertise - espe=
cially those due to operational practices.
I believe that any information that you could think of that would encourage=
 you to double check/validate a network outage is present over performing t=
he fast failover might be useful information.
Similarly, it would be good to mention cases where an operator may choose n=
ot to deploy such mechanism.

Yours,
Daniel

________________________________
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:47 AM
To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
Cc: secdir@ietf.org <secdir@ietf.org>; BESS <bess@ietf.org>; last-call@ietf=
.org <last-call@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org =
<draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-=
11

Hi Daniel,
thank you for your kind consideration of my notes. I've top-copied what app=
eared to me as the remaining open issues. I hope I've not missed any of you=
r questions. Please find my notes in-line below tagged GIM>>. Attached are =
the updated working version and the new diff.

Regards,
Greg

<mglt>
sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively =
a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to =
a fast-fail-over without any network failure.  This would be useful for an =
operator to evaluate whether it should spend more time in diagnosing a netw=
ork failure versus performing a fast-fail-over.
Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would ma=
ybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.

At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to charac=
terize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it seems t=
o me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators.
</mglt>
GIM>> I would like to add a new paragraph in Section 3.1:
NEW TEXT:
   All methods described in this section may produce false-negative
   state changes that can be the trigger for an unnecessary failover
   negatively impacting the multicast service provided by the VPN.  An
   operator expected to consider the network environment and use
   available controls of the mechanism used to determine the status of a
   P-tunnel.

Would the new text be helpful?

<mglt>
Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not rec=
ommended these two mechanism co-exist.
How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft I=
 agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to =
the impacts associated to a fail-over.  In case the fast-failover comes wit=
h no impact this becomes less of a problem for operator deploying it.

</mglt>
GIM>> I hope that the new text presented above addresses this concern.

<mglt>
I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N s=
cenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the issue=
.
</mglt>
GIM>> I propose adding the clarification of the use of the Sandby PE in Sec=
tion 4:
OLD TEXT:
   The procedures described below are limited to the case where the site
   that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to
   simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described.
NEW TEXT:
   The procedures described below are limited to the case where the site
   that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to
   simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described.  Such
   a redundancy protection scheme, referred to as 1:N protection, is the
   special case of M:N protection, where M working instances are sharing
   protection of the N standby instances.  In addition to a network
   failure detection mechanism, the latter scheme requires using a
   mechanism to coordinate the failover among working instances.  For
   that reason, M:N protection is outside the scope of this
   specification.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:48 AM Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com=
<mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com>> wrote:
Hi Greg,

Thanks for the response and clarifications. Most of my comments have been a=
ddressed/answered. However, it seems to me that some additional text might =
be added to the security consideration section document the impact on the n=
etwork of a fast-failover operation. The knowledge of these impact might be=
 useful for an operator to determine when the trigger can be done.

Please see more comments inline.

Yours,
Daniel

________________________________
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:13 PM
To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com<mailto:daniel.migault@erics=
son.com>>
Cc: secdir@ietf.org<mailto:secdir@ietf.org> <secdir@ietf.org<mailto:secdir@=
ietf.org>>; BESS <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>; last-call@ietf.org<=
mailto:last-call@ietf.org> <last-call@ietf.org<mailto:last-call@ietf.org>>;=
 draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvp=
n-fast-failover.all@ietf.org> <draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.=
org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-=
11

Hi Daniel,
many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all are muc=
h appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to your com=
ments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM>>. Atta=
ched are the new working version and the diff to -12.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatracker <noreply@iet=
f.org<mailto:noreply@ietf.org>> wrote:
Reviewer: Daniel Migault
Review result: Has Nits

Hi,


I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate's ongoing effo=
rt to
review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.  These comments were
written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.  Document
authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just l=
ike
any other IETF Last Call comments.  Please note also that my expertise in B=
GP is
limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.

Review Results: Has Nits

Please find my comments below.

Yours,
Daniel


                  Multicast VPN Fast Upstream Failover
                 draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11

Abstract

   This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures that
   allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstream PEs
   to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels) when
   selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extending BGP
   MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised toward a
   Standby Upstream PE.

<mglt>
Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN
designates multicast VPN, it might be
clarifying to specify the acronym in the
first sentence. This would later make
the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer.

</mglt>
GIM>> I've updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mVPN/MVPN/ throug=
hout the document.


1.  Introduction

   In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable to
   provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on
   different types of failures.  This document addresses failures of
   elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs connected
   to VPN sites with receivers.

<mglt>
Well I am not familiar with neither BGP
nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS
and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am
wondering if there is a distinction
between the two and a preferred way to
designate these VPNs.  My understanding
is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the
VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone
for the transport.  Since the PE are
connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4
needs to be labeled.

</mglt>
GIM>> I understand that this document often sends the reader to check RFC 6=
513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of providing a multi=
cast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed on the MPLS data plane using =
the BGP control plane.

   Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a PE
   connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status of
   P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a given
   (C-S, C-G).  This method does not provide a "fast failover" solution
<mglt>
I understand the limitation is due to
BGP convergence.

</mglt>
GIM>> Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provides the servi=
ce restoration functionality but the restoration time is significant and af=
fects the experience of a client.

   when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism
   described in Section 4 for a "fast failover" solution.

   Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up failover by
   not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at recovery
   time.

   Moreover, section 5 describes a "hot leaf standby" mechanism, that
   uses a combination of these two mechanisms.  This approach has
   similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to improve
   failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given some
   topology and metric constraints.


[...]

3.1.1.  mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking

   A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is that
   the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute,
   is reachable through unicast routing tables.  In this case, the
   downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachability
   condition changes.

   That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, except that
   the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but the root
   address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.

   If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root address
   of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop address in
   the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in unicast
   routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be
   unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific benefit.

<mglt>
It seems to me that x-PMSI address
designates a different interface than
the one used by the Tunnel itself. If
that is correct, such mechanisms seems
to assume that one equipment up on one
interface will be up on the other
interfaces. I have the impression that a
configuration change in a PE may end up
in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE
still being reachable though the x-PMSI
Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible
scenario, the current mechanisms may not
provide more efficient mechanism than
then those of the standard BGP.
GIM>> That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, and in the =
Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some assumptions a=
bout the state of the remote system based on a single event or change of st=
ate. Usually, AFAIK, operators use not a physical interface but a loopback =
to associate with a tunnel. With a fast IGP convergence, a loopback interfa=
ce is reachable as long as there's a path through the network between two n=
odes.
<mglt>
Thanks for the clarification
</mglt>

Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is
either up or down and the determination
of not being up if being down.  I am not
convinced that the two only states.
Typically services under DDoS may be
down for a small amount of time. While
this affects the network, there is not
always a clear cut between the PE being
up or down.
</mglt>
GIM>>  In defect detection a system often has some hysteresis, i.e., time t=
hat the system has to wait to change its state. For example, BFD changes st=
ate from Up to Down after the system does not receive N consecutive packets=
 (usually 3). As a result, in some cases, the system can be tuned to detect=
 relatively short outages while in others be slower and miss short-lived ou=
tages.


[...]

3.1.6.  BFD Discriminator Attribute

   P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint BFD
   session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with an
   x-PMSI A-D Route.

   This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP
   attribute called the "BFD Discriminator".  It is an optional
   transitive BGP attribute.  In Section 7.2, IANA is requested to
   allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).  The format of this attribute is
   shown in Figure 1.

<mglt>
I feel that the sentence "In Section ...
TBA2)." should be removed.

</mglt>
GIM>> We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usually, this =
text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read
In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.



       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |    BFD Mode   |                  Reserved                     |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                       BFD Discriminator                       |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      ~                         Optional TLVs                         ~
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


            Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discriminator Attribute

   Where:

      BFD Mode field is the one octet long.  This specification defines
      the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.

      Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUST be zeroed
      on transmission and ignored on receipt.

      BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.





Morin, et al.             Expires April 5, 2021                 [Page 7]

Internet-Draft         mVPN Fast Upstream Failover          October 2020


      Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field that MAY be
      used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future extensions.
      TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.  To allow
      for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as a variable-
      length object.  Figure 2 presents the Optional TLV format TLV that
      consists of:

      *  one octet-long field of TLV 's Type value (Section 7.3)

      *  one octet-long field of the length of the Value field in octets

      *  variable length Value field.

      The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.
<mglt>
I am wondering why the constraint on the
length is not mentioned in the paragraph
associated to the field - as opposed to
a  separate paragraph.

</mglt>
GIM>> There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length and length=
. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length of the Valu=
e field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV, including=
 lengths of Type, Length and Value fields.

<mglt>
you are correct that might have confused me.
</mglt>

[..]

8.  Security Considerations

   This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC6514]
   and hence shares the security considerations respectively represented
   in these specifications.

   This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, in turn,
   is based on [RFC5880].  Security considerations relevant to each
   protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specifications.  An
   implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mechanism
   to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be active
   at the same time.

<mglt>
At a high level view - or at least my
interpretation of it - the document
proposes a mechanism based on BFD to
detect fault in the path.  Upon a fault
detection a fail-over operation is
instructed using BGP. This rocedure is
expected to perform a faster fail-over
than traditional BGP convergence on
maintaining routing tables. Once the
fail over has been performed, BFD is
confirms the new path is "legitimate"
and works.

It seems correct to me that the current
protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.
That said, having BFD authentication
based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that
stronger primitives be recommended.
While this does not concerns the current
document, it seems to me that the
information might be relayed to routing
ADs.

What remains unclear to me - and I
assume this might be due to my lake or
expertise in routing area - is the impact
associated to performing a fail-over
both on 1) the data plane and 2) the
standard BGP way to establish routing
tables.

Regarding the data plane, I am wondering
if fail-over results in a lost of
packets for example - I suppose for
example that at least the packets in the
process of being forwarded might be
lost. I believe that providing details
on this may be good.
GIM>> You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. With network=
 failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the reaction to=
 a network failure.  If that is the case, then packet loss experienced by s=
ervice due to the fail-over is the result of the network failure. Would you=
 agree with that view? A shorter failure detection interval and faster fail=
-over should minimize the packet loss and, as a result, the negative impact=
 on the service itself.

<mglt>
sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively =
a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to =
a fast-fail-over without any network failure.  This would be useful for an =
operator to evaluate whether it should spend more time in diagnosing a netw=
ork failure versus performing a fast-fail-over.
Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would ma=
ybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.

At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to charac=
terize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it seems t=
o me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators.
</mglt>

If there are any impacts I would like to
understand also in which cases the
decision to perform a failover operation
may result in more harm than the event
that has been over-interpreted. An
hypothetical scenario could be that the
non reception of a BFD packet is
interpreted as a PE being down while it
may not be correct and the PE might have
been simply under stress. A "too fast" fail-over
may over interpreted it and perform a
fail-over. If such things could happen,
an attacker could leverage a micro event
to perform network operation that are
not negligible. Another way to see that
is that an attacker might not have
direct access to the control plan, but
could use the data plan to generate a
stress and sort of control the fail
over. It seems to me that some text
might be welcome to prevent such cases
to happen. This could be guidance for
declaring a tunnel down for example.
GIM>> I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval may produce=
 a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus triggering t=
he fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue, something tha=
t an operator will consider when deploying the mechanism specified in this =
draft. Resulting from addressing RtgDir review the draft was updated to pro=
vide more guidance:
   In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection
   methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cause
   unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.
<mglt>
Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not rec=
ommended these two mechanism co-exist.
How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft I=
 agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to =
the impacts associated to a fail-over.  In case the fast-failover comes wit=
h no impact this becomes less of a problem for operator deploying it.

</mglt>
Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also applies to=
 the scenario you've presented.

Similarly, it would be good to add some
text regarding the interferences with
the non-fast forwarding fail over when
performed by the standard BGP.
Typically, my impression is that the
fast fail-over mechanism is a local
decision versus the BGP convergence that
is more global. As a result, even with
more time this two mechanisms may come
with different outcomes. One such
example to illustrate my purpose could
be the following. Note that this is only
illustrative of my purpose, and I let
you find and pick on ethat is more
appropriated.   I am thinking of a case
where a standby PE is be shared among
multiple PEs - supposing this situation
could occur.  Typically, if PE_1, PE_2
are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case
PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a
to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to
PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end
up in such situation while a local
decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to
switch to PE_1.

</mglt>
GIM>> Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deploying protectio=
n based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referred to as M:N=
 protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network failure, e.=
g., BFD, require a protocol to coordinate the switchover. This specificatio=
n applies to a more special deployment scenario where one working PE is pro=
tected by one or more standby PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.

<mglt>
I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N s=
cenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the issue=
.
</mglt>

--_000_DM6PR15MB2379F1203196C3015C583ECBE3E70DM6PR15MB2379namp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi Greg,&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Thanks for the response Greg. This seems to go in the right direction, but =
I think it would be nice to detail a bit on the negative impact that may re=
sult from the fast-fail over.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&quot;&quot;&quot;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-syst=
em, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(32, 31, 30);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !impor=
tant">unnecessary
 failover&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;font-family:=
&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe=
 UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&=
quot;, sans-serif;color:rgb(32, 31, 30);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)=
;display:inline !important">negatively
 impacting the multicast service</span><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-syst=
em, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(32, 31, 30);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !impor=
tant">&quot;&quot;&quot;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-syst=
em, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(32, 31, 30);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !impor=
tant"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-syst=
em, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(32, 31, 30);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !impor=
tant">I
 apology to appear being maybe a bit picky, but, at least to me, the securi=
ty consideration section is the place to point on specific impacts that an =
operator may not have thought of and the text appears to me a bit too vague=
 on what can impact negatively the
 multicast service.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-syst=
em, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(32, 31, 30);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !impor=
tant"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-syst=
em, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(32, 31, 30);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !impor=
tant">Let
 me dig a bit on what I mean and probably what information I would have exp=
ected to find. Maybe that would have been useful I provided those earlier.&=
nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Arial=
, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Again,
 not being an expert in this area, please take my following recommendations=
 with a pitch of salt.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
What I would like, for example, to understand is whether having a fast-fail=
over between nodes that work properly results in a packet lost or not.&nbsp=
;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I also envision that in some cases, this will result in packet re-ordering =
which might result in packet being rejected by the end node.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
In IPsec vpns, we have specific counters, keys that make fail-over relative=
ly complex as a context has to be maintained between the old and the new no=
de to pass anti replay protection and enable appropriated encryption/decryp=
tion. It would be good to clarify
 if any parameters need - or not - to be synchronized between the two nodes=
 as its transfer represents a risk of disrupting the traffic, and thus may =
be mentioned.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
There probably other points I am missing due to my lack of expertise - espe=
cially those due to operational practices.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I believe that any information that you could think of that would encourage=
 you to double check/validate a network outage is present over performing t=
he fast failover might be useful information.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Similarly, it would be good to mention cases where an operator may choose n=
ot to deploy such mechanism.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Yours,&nbsp;<br>
Daniel</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;gregi=
mirsky@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Migault &lt;daniel.migault@ericsson.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> secdir@ietf.org &lt;secdir@ietf.org&gt;; BESS &lt;bess@ietf.org&=
gt;; last-call@ietf.org &lt;last-call@ietf.org&gt;; draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fa=
st-failover.all@ietf.org &lt;draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.or=
g&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fa=
ilover-11</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,
<div>thank you for your kind consideration of my notes. I've top-copied wha=
t appeared to me as the remaining open issues. I hope I've not&nbsp;missed&=
nbsp;any of your questions. Please find my notes in-line below tagged GIM&g=
t;&gt;. Attached are the updated working version
 and the new diff.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively =
a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to =
a fast-fail-over without any network failure.&nbsp; This would be useful fo=
r an operator to evaluate whether it
 should spend more time in diagnosing a network failure versus performing a=
 fast-fail-over.
<br>
Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would ma=
ybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3. &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
<br>
At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to charac=
terize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it seems t=
o me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators. &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</div>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I would like to add a new paragraph in Section 3.1:</div>
<div>NEW TEXT:</div>
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp;All methods described in this section may produce false-n=
egative<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;state changes that can be the trigger for an unnecessary failo=
ver<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;negatively impacting the multicast service provided by the VPN=
.&nbsp; An<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;operator expected to consider the network environment and use<=
br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;available controls of the mechanism used to determine the stat=
us of a<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;P-tunnel.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Would the new text be helpful?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not rec=
ommended these two mechanism co-exist.
<br>
How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft I=
 agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to =
the impacts associated to a fail-over.&nbsp; In case the fast-failover come=
s with no impact this becomes less of
 a problem for operator deploying it.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</div>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I hope that the new text presented above addresses this co=
ncern.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N s=
cenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the issue=
.
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</div>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I propose adding the clarification of the use of the Sandb=
y PE in Section 4:</div>
<div>OLD TEXT:</div>
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp;The procedures described below are limited to the case wh=
ere the site<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to<=
br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described=
.<br>
</div>
<div>NEW TEXT:</div>
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp;The procedures described below are limited to the case wh=
ere the site<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to<=
br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described=
.&nbsp; Such<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;a redundancy protection scheme, referred to as 1:N protection,=
 is the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;special case of M:N protection, where M working instances are =
sharing<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protection of the N standby instances.&nbsp; In addition to a =
network<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;failure detection mechanism, the latter scheme requires using =
a<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;mechanism to coordinate the failover among working instances.&=
nbsp; For<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;that reason, M:N protection is outside the scope of this<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;specification.&nbsp;<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:48 AM Dan=
iel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com">daniel.migau=
lt@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Greg,&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks for the response and clarifications. Most of my comments have been a=
ddressed/answered. However, it seems to me that some additional text might =
be added to the security consideration section document the impact on the n=
etwork of a fast-failover operation.
 The knowledge of these impact might be useful for an operator to determine=
 when the trigger can be done.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Please see more comments inline.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Yours,&nbsp;<br>
Daniel&nbsp;</div>
<div id=3D"x_gmail-m_-6627391055567166672appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_gmail-m_-6627391055567166672divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font f=
ace=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>F=
rom:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D=
"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com=
" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ietf=
.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;; BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">last-call@ietf.org<=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">last-call@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:d=
raft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-iet=
f-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fa=
ilover-11</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,
<div>many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all ar=
e much appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to you=
r comments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM&gt=
;&gt;. Attached are the new working version
 and the diff to -12.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatra=
cker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">noreply@ietf=
.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
Reviewer: Daniel Migault<br>
Review result: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Hi, <br>
<br>
<br>
I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate's ongoing effo=
rt to<br>
review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.&nbsp; These comments=
 were<br>
written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.&nbsp; Doc=
ument<br>
authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just l=
ike<br>
any other IETF Last Call comments.&nbsp; Please note also that my expertise=
 in BGP is<br>
limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.&nbsp; <b=
r>
<br>
Review Results: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Please find my comments below. <br>
<br>
Yours, <br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Multicast VP=
N Fast Upstream Failover<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-ietf-be=
ss-mvpn-fast-failover-11<br>
<br>
Abstract<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures =
that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstr=
eam PEs<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels=
) when<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extend=
ing BGP<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised tow=
ard a<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Standby Upstream PE.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN<br>
designates multicast VPN, it might be<br>
clarifying to specify the acronym in the<br>
first sentence. This would later make<br>
the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I've updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mVPN/M=
VPN/ throughout the document.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
1.&nbsp; Introduction<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable =
to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on<b=
r>
&nbsp; &nbsp;different types of failures.&nbsp; This document addresses fai=
lures of<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs conn=
ected<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;to VPN sites with receivers.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Well I am not familiar with neither BGP<br>
nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS<br>
and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am<br>
wondering if there is a distinction<br>
between the two and a preferred way to<br>
designate these VPNs.&nbsp; My understanding<br>
is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the<br>
VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone<br>
for the transport.&nbsp; Since the PE are<br>
connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4<br>
needs to be labeled. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I understand that this document often sends the reader to =
check RFC 6513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of provid=
ing a multicast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed&nbsp;on the MPLS d=
ata plane using the BGP control plane.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a =
PE<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status =
of<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a =
given<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;(C-S, C-G).&nbsp; This method does not provide a &quot;fast fa=
ilover&quot; solution<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I understand the limitation is due to<br>
BGP convergence. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provide=
s the service restoration functionality but the restoration time is signifi=
cant and affects the experience of a client.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
&nbsp; &nbsp;when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism<b=
r>
&nbsp; &nbsp;described in Section 4 for a &quot;fast failover&quot; solutio=
n.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up fail=
over by<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at re=
covery<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;time.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Moreover, section 5 describes a &quot;hot leaf standby&quot; m=
echanism, that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;uses a combination of these two mechanisms.&nbsp; This approac=
h has<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to impro=
ve<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given som=
e<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;topology and metric constraints.<br>
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.1.&nbsp; mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is=
 that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel att=
ribute,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;is reachable through unicast routing tables.&nbsp; In this cas=
e, the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachabi=
lity<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;condition changes.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, excep=
t that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but th=
e root<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root a=
ddress<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop addre=
ss in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in un=
icast<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be<=
br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific b=
enefit.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
It seems to me that x-PMSI address<br>
designates a different interface than<br>
the one used by the Tunnel itself. If<br>
that is correct, such mechanisms seems<br>
to assume that one equipment up on one<br>
interface will be up on the other<br>
interfaces. I have the impression that a<br>
configuration change in a PE may end up<br>
in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE<br>
still being reachable though the x-PMSI<br>
Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible<br>
scenario, the current mechanisms may not<br>
provide more efficient mechanism than<br>
then those of the standard BGP.<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, =
and in the Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some as=
sumptions&nbsp;about the state of the remote system based on a single event=
 or change of state. Usually, AFAIK, operators
 use not a physical interface but a loopback to associate with a tunnel. Wi=
th a fast IGP convergence, a loopback interface is reachable as long as the=
re's a path through the network between two nodes.</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Thanks for the clarification</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is<br>
either up or down and the determination<br>
of not being up if being down.&nbsp; I am not<br>
convinced that the two only states.<br>
Typically services under DDoS may be<br>
down for a small amount of time. While<br>
this affects the network, there is not<br>
always a clear cut between the PE being<br>
up or down. <br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt;&nbsp; In defect detection a system often has some hysteres=
is, i.e., time that the system has to wait to change its state. For example=
, BFD changes state from Up to Down after the system does not receive N con=
secutive packets (usually 3). As a result,
 in some cases, the system can be tuned to detect relatively short outages =
while in others be slower and miss short-lived outages.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.6.&nbsp; BFD Discriminator Attribute<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint=
 BFD<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with=
 an<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;x-PMSI A-D Route.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP<b=
r>
&nbsp; &nbsp;attribute called the &quot;BFD Discriminator&quot;.&nbsp; It i=
s an optional<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;transitive BGP attribute.&nbsp; In Section 7.2, IANA is reques=
ted to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).&nbsp; The format of this =
attribute is<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;shown in Figure 1.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I feel that the sentence &quot;In Section ...<br>
TBA2).&quot; should be removed.<br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usu=
ally, this text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px; border:none; padding:0px">
<div>
<div>In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp;2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;3<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 =
4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; BFD Mode&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Reserved&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;BFD Discriminator&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Optional TLVs&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;~<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discr=
iminator Attribute<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Where:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; BFD Mode field is the one octet long.&nbsp; This speci=
fication defines<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUS=
T be zeroed<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; on transmission and ignored on receipt.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Morin, et al.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Expires April =
5, 2021&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[Page =
7]<br>
<br>
Internet-Draft&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;mVPN Fast Upstream Failover=
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; October 2020<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field th=
at MAY be<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future ext=
ensions.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.=
&nbsp; To allow<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as =
a variable-<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; length object.&nbsp; Figure 2 presents the Optional TL=
V format TLV that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; consists of:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *&nbsp; one octet-long field of TLV 's Type value (Sec=
tion 7.3)<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *&nbsp; one octet-long field of the length of the Valu=
e field in octets<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *&nbsp; variable length Value field.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.<b=
r>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I am wondering why the constraint on the<br>
length is not mentioned in the paragraph<br>
associated to the field - as opposed to<br>
a&nbsp; separate paragraph. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length=
 and length. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length =
of the Value field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV=
, including lengths of Type, Length and
 Value fields.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>you are correct that might have confused me.&nbsp;</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
[..]<br>
<br>
8.&nbsp; Security Considerations<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC=
6514]<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;and hence shares the security considerations respectively repr=
esented<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;in these specifications.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, i=
n turn,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;is based on [RFC5880].&nbsp; Security considerations relevant =
to each<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specificatio=
ns.&nbsp; An<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mec=
hanism<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be=
 active<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;at the same time.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
At a high level view - or at least my<br>
interpretation of it - the document<br>
proposes a mechanism based on BFD to<br>
detect fault in the path.&nbsp; Upon a fault<br>
detection a fail-over operation is<br>
instructed using BGP. This rocedure is<br>
expected to perform a faster fail-over<br>
than traditional BGP convergence on<br>
maintaining routing tables. Once the<br>
fail over has been performed, BFD is<br>
confirms the new path is &quot;legitimate&quot;<br>
and works.<br>
<br>
It seems correct to me that the current<br>
protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.<br>
That said, having BFD authentication<br>
based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that<br>
stronger primitives be recommended.<br>
While this does not concerns the current<br>
document, it seems to me that the<br>
information might be relayed to routing<br>
ADs. <br>
<br>
What remains unclear to me - and I<br>
assume this might be due to my lake or<br>
expertise in routing area - is the impact<br>
associated to performing a fail-over<br>
both on 1) the data plane and 2) the<br>
standard BGP way to establish routing<br>
tables. <br>
<br>
Regarding the data plane, I am wondering<br>
if fail-over results in a lost of<br>
packets for example - I suppose for<br>
example that at least the packets in the<br>
process of being forwarded might be<br>
lost. I believe that providing details<br>
on this may be good. <br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. W=
ith network failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the =
reaction to a network failure.&nbsp; If that is the case, then packet loss =
experienced by service due to the fail-over
 is the result of the network failure. Would you agree with that view? A sh=
orter failure detection interval&nbsp;and faster fail-over should minimize =
the packet loss and, as a result, the negative impact on the service itself=
.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definiti=
vely a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associate=
d to a fast-fail-over without any network failure.&nbsp; This would be usef=
ul for an operator to evaluate whether
 it should spend more time in diagnosing a network failure versus performin=
g a fast-fail-over.&nbsp;</div>
<div>Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator wou=
ld maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.&nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to c=
haracterize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it se=
ems to me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators.&=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
If there are any impacts I would like to<br>
understand also in which cases the<br>
decision to perform a failover operation<br>
may result in more harm than the event<br>
that has been over-interpreted. An<br>
hypothetical scenario could be that the<br>
non reception of a BFD packet is<br>
interpreted as a PE being down while it<br>
may not be correct and the PE might have<br>
been simply under stress. A &quot;too fast&quot; fail-over<br>
may over interpreted it and perform a<br>
fail-over. If such things could happen,<br>
an attacker could leverage a micro event<br>
to perform network operation that are<br>
not negligible. Another way to see that<br>
is that an attacker might not have<br>
direct access to the control plan, but<br>
could use the data plan to generate a<br>
stress and sort of control the fail<br>
over. It seems to me that some text<br>
might be welcome to prevent such cases<br>
to happen. This could be guidance for<br>
declaring a tunnel down for example. <br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval =
may produce a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus t=
riggering the fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue, so=
mething that an operator will consider
 when deploying the mechanism specified in this draft. Resulting from addre=
ssing RtgDir review the draft was updated to provide more guidance:</div>
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp;In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection=
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cau=
se<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.<br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is no=
t recommended these two mechanism co-exist.&nbsp;</div>
<div>How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the dr=
aft I agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relatio=
n to the impacts associated to a fail-over.&nbsp; In case the fast-failover=
 comes with no impact this becomes less
 of a problem for operator deploying it.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also appli=
es to the scenario you've presented.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it would be good to add some<br>
text regarding the interferences with<br>
the non-fast forwarding fail over when<br>
performed by the standard BGP.<br>
Typically, my impression is that the<br>
fast fail-over mechanism is a local<br>
decision versus the BGP convergence that<br>
is more global. As a result, even with<br>
more time this two mechanisms may come<br>
with different outcomes. One such<br>
example to illustrate my purpose could<br>
be the following. Note that this is only<br>
illustrative of my purpose, and I let<br>
you find and pick on ethat is more<br>
appropriated.&nbsp; &nbsp;I am thinking of a case<br>
where a standby PE is be shared among<br>
multiple PEs - supposing this situation<br>
could occur.&nbsp; Typically, if PE_1, PE_2<br>
are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case<br>
PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a<br>
to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to<br>
PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end<br>
up in such situation while a local<br>
decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to<br>
switch to PE_1. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deployin=
g protection based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referre=
d to as M:N protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network =
failure, e.g., BFD, require a protocol
 to coordinate the switchover. This specification applies to a more special=
 deployment scenario where one working PE is protected by one or more stand=
by PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if =
M:N scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the =
issue.&nbsp;</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 12:14:19 -0800
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To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
Cc: "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>,  "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
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Hi Daniel,
thank you for the additional information. I understand your concerns and
agree that it is helpful to provide implementors and operators with useful
information about the potential impact the new functionality may
demonstrate in the network and how to mitigate the risks. I believe it is
important to recognize that this draft proposes mechanisms that expedite
the failure detection in a P-tunnel from the perspective of a downstream
PE. And the detection directly impacts the control plane, not the data
plane. I believe that it is difficult to make any assumptions on how the
convergence in the control plane may impact the forwarding plane and what
effect that will have on a multicast flow. I think that very much depends
on the implementation and the HW capabilities of the platform used. I've
moved the new text from Section 3.1 into the Security Considerations
section. Please let me know if you think that is a more appropriate place
for that paragraph.
Also, I've realized that the text I've proposed earlier that refers to 1:N
and N:M protection might be the source of questions and arguments and would
like to withdraw it. I hope you'll agree.

I've attached the new diff reflecting the changes in the working version.

Regards,
Greg


On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 9:02 AM Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
> Thanks for the response Greg. This seems to go in the right direction, but
> I think it would be nice to detail a bit on the negative impact that may
> result from the fast-fail over.
>
> """
> unnecessary failover negatively impacting the multicast service
> """
>
> I apology to appear being maybe a bit picky, but, at least to me, the
> security consideration section is the place to point on specific impacts
> that an operator may not have thought of and the text appears to me a bit
> too vague on what can impact negatively the multicast service.
>
> Let me dig a bit on what I mean and probably what information I would have
> expected to find. Maybe that would have been useful I provided those
> earlier. Again, not being an expert in this area, please take my
> following recommendations with a pitch of salt.
>
> What I would like, for example, to understand is whether having a
> fast-failover between nodes that work properly results in a packet lost or
> not.
> I also envision that in some cases, this will result in packet re-ordering
> which might result in packet being rejected by the end node.
> In IPsec vpns, we have specific counters, keys that make fail-over
> relatively complex as a context has to be maintained between the old and
> the new node to pass anti replay protection and enable appropriated
> encryption/decryption. It would be good to clarify if any parameters need -
> or not - to be synchronized between the two nodes as its transfer
> represents a risk of disrupting the traffic, and thus may be mentioned.
> There probably other points I am missing due to my lack of expertise -
> especially those due to operational practices.
> I believe that any information that you could think of that would
> encourage you to double check/validate a network outage is present over
> performing the fast failover might be useful information.
> Similarly, it would be good to mention cases where an operator may choose
> not to deploy such mechanism.
>
> Yours,
> Daniel
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:47 AM
> *To:* Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
> *Cc:* secdir@ietf.org <secdir@ietf.org>; BESS <bess@ietf.org>;
> last-call@ietf.org <last-call@ietf.org>;
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org <
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Secdir last call review of
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
>
> Hi Daniel,
> thank you for your kind consideration of my notes. I've top-copied what
> appeared to me as the remaining open issues. I hope I've not missed any of
> your questions. Please find my notes in-line below tagged GIM>>. Attached
> are the updated working version and the new diff.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> <mglt>
> sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively
> a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to
> a fast-fail-over without any network failure.  This would be useful for an
> operator to evaluate whether it should spend more time in diagnosing a
> network failure versus performing a fast-fail-over.
> Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would
> maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.
>
> At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to
> characterize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it
> seems to me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the
> operators.
> </mglt>
> GIM>> I would like to add a new paragraph in Section 3.1:
> NEW TEXT:
>    All methods described in this section may produce false-negative
>    state changes that can be the trigger for an unnecessary failover
>    negatively impacting the multicast service provided by the VPN.  An
>    operator expected to consider the network environment and use
>    available controls of the mechanism used to determine the status of a
>    P-tunnel.
>
> Would the new text be helpful?
>
> <mglt>
> Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not
> recommended these two mechanism co-exist.
> How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft
> I agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to
> the impacts associated to a fail-over.  In case the fast-failover comes
> with no impact this becomes less of a problem for operator deploying it.
>
> </mglt>
> GIM>> I hope that the new text presented above addresses this concern.
>
> <mglt>
> I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N
> scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the
> issue.
> </mglt>
> GIM>> I propose adding the clarification of the use of the Sandby PE in
> Section 4:
> OLD TEXT:
>    The procedures described below are limited to the case where the site
>    that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to
>    simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described.
> NEW TEXT:
>    The procedures described below are limited to the case where the site
>    that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to
>    simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described.  Such
>    a redundancy protection scheme, referred to as 1:N protection, is the
>    special case of M:N protection, where M working instances are sharing
>    protection of the N standby instances.  In addition to a network
>    failure detection mechanism, the latter scheme requires using a
>    mechanism to coordinate the failover among working instances.  For
>    that reason, M:N protection is outside the scope of this
>    specification.
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:48 AM Daniel Migault <
> daniel.migault@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> Thanks for the response and clarifications. Most of my comments have been
> addressed/answered. However, it seems to me that some additional text might
> be added to the security consideration section document the impact on the
> network of a fast-failover operation. The knowledge of these impact might
> be useful for an operator to determine when the trigger can be done.
>
> Please see more comments inline.
>
> Yours,
> Daniel
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:13 PM
> *To:* Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
> *Cc:* secdir@ietf.org <secdir@ietf.org>; BESS <bess@ietf.org>;
> last-call@ietf.org <last-call@ietf.org>;
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org <
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Secdir last call review of
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
>
> Hi Daniel,
> many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all are
> much appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to your
> comments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM>>.
> Attached are the new working version and the diff to -12.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatracker <
> noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Reviewer: Daniel Migault
> Review result: Has Nits
>
> Hi,
>
>
> I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate's ongoing
> effort to
> review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.  These comments were
> written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.  Document
> authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just
> like
> any other IETF Last Call comments.  Please note also that my expertise in
> BGP is
> limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.
>
> Review Results: Has Nits
>
> Please find my comments below.
>
> Yours,
> Daniel
>
>
>                   Multicast VPN Fast Upstream Failover
>                  draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
>
> Abstract
>
>    This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures that
>    allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstream PEs
>    to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels) when
>    selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extending BGP
>    MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised toward a
>    Standby Upstream PE.
>
> <mglt>
> Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN
> designates multicast VPN, it might be
> clarifying to specify the acronym in the
> first sentence. This would later make
> the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> I've updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mVPN/MVPN/
> throughout the document.
>
>
>
> 1.  Introduction
>
>    In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable to
>    provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on
>    different types of failures.  This document addresses failures of
>    elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs connected
>    to VPN sites with receivers.
>
> <mglt>
> Well I am not familiar with neither BGP
> nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS
> and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am
> wondering if there is a distinction
> between the two and a preferred way to
> designate these VPNs.  My understanding
> is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the
> VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone
> for the transport.  Since the PE are
> connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4
> needs to be labeled.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> I understand that this document often sends the reader to check RFC
> 6513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of providing a
> multicast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed on the MPLS data plane
> using the BGP control plane.
>
>
>    Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a PE
>    connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status of
>    P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a given
>    (C-S, C-G).  This method does not provide a "fast failover" solution
> <mglt>
> I understand the limitation is due to
> BGP convergence.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provides the
> service restoration functionality but the restoration time is significant
> and affects the experience of a client.
>
>    when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism
>    described in Section 4 for a "fast failover" solution.
>
>    Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up failover by
>    not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at recovery
>    time.
>
>    Moreover, section 5 describes a "hot leaf standby" mechanism, that
>    uses a combination of these two mechanisms.  This approach has
>    similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to improve
>    failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given some
>    topology and metric constraints.
>
>
> [...]
>
> 3.1.1.  mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking
>
>    A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is that
>    the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute,
>    is reachable through unicast routing tables.  In this case, the
>    downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachability
>    condition changes.
>
>    That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, except that
>    the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but the root
>    address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.
>
>    If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root address
>    of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop address in
>    the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in unicast
>    routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be
>    unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific benefit.
>
> <mglt>
> It seems to me that x-PMSI address
> designates a different interface than
> the one used by the Tunnel itself. If
> that is correct, such mechanisms seems
> to assume that one equipment up on one
> interface will be up on the other
> interfaces. I have the impression that a
> configuration change in a PE may end up
> in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE
> still being reachable though the x-PMSI
> Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible
> scenario, the current mechanisms may not
> provide more efficient mechanism than
> then those of the standard BGP.
>
> GIM>> That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, and in the
> Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some
> assumptions about the state of the remote system based on a single event or
> change of state. Usually, AFAIK, operators use not a physical interface but
> a loopback to associate with a tunnel. With a fast IGP convergence, a
> loopback interface is reachable as long as there's a path through the
> network between two nodes.
> <mglt>
> Thanks for the clarification
> </mglt>
>
>
> Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is
> either up or down and the determination
> of not being up if being down.  I am not
> convinced that the two only states.
> Typically services under DDoS may be
> down for a small amount of time. While
> this affects the network, there is not
> always a clear cut between the PE being
> up or down.
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>>  In defect detection a system often has some hysteresis, i.e., time
> that the system has to wait to change its state. For example, BFD changes
> state from Up to Down after the system does not receive N consecutive
> packets (usually 3). As a result, in some cases, the system can be tuned to
> detect relatively short outages while in others be slower and miss
> short-lived outages.
>
>
>
> [...]
>
> 3.1.6.  BFD Discriminator Attribute
>
>    P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint BFD
>    session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with an
>    x-PMSI A-D Route.
>
>    This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP
>    attribute called the "BFD Discriminator".  It is an optional
>    transitive BGP attribute.  In Section 7.2, IANA is requested to
>    allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).  The format of this attribute is
>    shown in Figure 1.
>
> <mglt>
> I feel that the sentence "In Section ...
> TBA2)." should be removed.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usually, this
> text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read
>
> In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.
>
>
>
>
>        0                   1                   2                   3
>        0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       |    BFD Mode   |                  Reserved                     |
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       |                       BFD Discriminator                       |
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       ~                         Optional TLVs                         ~
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
>             Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discriminator Attribute
>
>    Where:
>
>       BFD Mode field is the one octet long.  This specification defines
>       the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.
>
>       Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUST be zeroed
>       on transmission and ignored on receipt.
>
>       BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.
>
>
>
>
>
> Morin, et al.             Expires April 5, 2021                 [Page 7]
>
> Internet-Draft         mVPN Fast Upstream Failover          October 2020
>
>
>       Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field that MAY be
>       used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future extensions.
>       TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.  To allow
>       for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as a variable-
>       length object.  Figure 2 presents the Optional TLV format TLV that
>       consists of:
>
>       *  one octet-long field of TLV 's Type value (Section 7.3)
>
>       *  one octet-long field of the length of the Value field in octets
>
>       *  variable length Value field.
>
>       The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.
> <mglt>
> I am wondering why the constraint on the
> length is not mentioned in the paragraph
> associated to the field - as opposed to
> a  separate paragraph.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length and
> length. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length of
> the Value field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV,
> including lengths of Type, Length and Value fields.
>
> <mglt>
> you are correct that might have confused me.
> </mglt>
>
>
> [..]
>
> 8.  Security Considerations
>
>    This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC6514]
>    and hence shares the security considerations respectively represented
>    in these specifications.
>
>    This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, in turn,
>    is based on [RFC5880].  Security considerations relevant to each
>    protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specifications.  An
>    implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mechanism
>    to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be active
>    at the same time.
>
> <mglt>
> At a high level view - or at least my
> interpretation of it - the document
> proposes a mechanism based on BFD to
> detect fault in the path.  Upon a fault
> detection a fail-over operation is
> instructed using BGP. This rocedure is
> expected to perform a faster fail-over
> than traditional BGP convergence on
> maintaining routing tables. Once the
> fail over has been performed, BFD is
> confirms the new path is "legitimate"
> and works.
>
> It seems correct to me that the current
> protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.
> That said, having BFD authentication
> based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that
> stronger primitives be recommended.
> While this does not concerns the current
> document, it seems to me that the
> information might be relayed to routing
> ADs.
>
> What remains unclear to me - and I
> assume this might be due to my lake or
> expertise in routing area - is the impact
> associated to performing a fail-over
> both on 1) the data plane and 2) the
> standard BGP way to establish routing
> tables.
>
> Regarding the data plane, I am wondering
> if fail-over results in a lost of
> packets for example - I suppose for
> example that at least the packets in the
> process of being forwarded might be
> lost. I believe that providing details
> on this may be good.
>
> GIM>> You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. With
> network failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the
> reaction to a network failure.  If that is the case, then packet loss
> experienced by service due to the fail-over is the result of the network
> failure. Would you agree with that view? A shorter failure detection
> interval and faster fail-over should minimize the packet loss and, as a
> result, the negative impact on the service itself.
>
> <mglt>
> sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively
> a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to
> a fast-fail-over without any network failure.  This would be useful for an
> operator to evaluate whether it should spend more time in diagnosing a
> network failure versus performing a fast-fail-over.
> Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would
> maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.
>
> At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to
> characterize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it
> seems to me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the
> operators.
> </mglt>
>
> If there are any impacts I would like to
> understand also in which cases the
> decision to perform a failover operation
> may result in more harm than the event
> that has been over-interpreted. An
> hypothetical scenario could be that the
> non reception of a BFD packet is
> interpreted as a PE being down while it
> may not be correct and the PE might have
> been simply under stress. A "too fast" fail-over
> may over interpreted it and perform a
> fail-over. If such things could happen,
> an attacker could leverage a micro event
> to perform network operation that are
> not negligible. Another way to see that
> is that an attacker might not have
> direct access to the control plan, but
> could use the data plan to generate a
> stress and sort of control the fail
> over. It seems to me that some text
> might be welcome to prevent such cases
> to happen. This could be guidance for
> declaring a tunnel down for example.
>
> GIM>> I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval may
> produce a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus
> triggering the fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue,
> something that an operator will consider when deploying the mechanism
> specified in this draft. Resulting from addressing RtgDir review the draft
> was updated to provide more guidance:
>    In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection
>    methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cause
>    unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.
> <mglt>
> Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not
> recommended these two mechanism co-exist.
> How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft
> I agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to
> the impacts associated to a fail-over.  In case the fast-failover comes
> with no impact this becomes less of a problem for operator deploying it.
>
> </mglt>
> Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also applies
> to the scenario you've presented.
>
>
> Similarly, it would be good to add some
> text regarding the interferences with
> the non-fast forwarding fail over when
> performed by the standard BGP.
> Typically, my impression is that the
> fast fail-over mechanism is a local
> decision versus the BGP convergence that
> is more global. As a result, even with
> more time this two mechanisms may come
> with different outcomes. One such
> example to illustrate my purpose could
> be the following. Note that this is only
> illustrative of my purpose, and I let
> you find and pick on ethat is more
> appropriated.   I am thinking of a case
> where a standby PE is be shared among
> multiple PEs - supposing this situation
> could occur.  Typically, if PE_1, PE_2
> are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case
> PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a
> to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to
> PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end
> up in such situation while a local
> decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to
> switch to PE_1.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deploying
> protection based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referred
> to as M:N protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network
> failure, e.g., BFD, require a protocol to coordinate the switchover. This
> specification applies to a more special deployment scenario where one
> working PE is protected by one or more standby PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.
>
> <mglt>
> I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N
> scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the
> issue.
> </mglt>
>
>

--00000000000045a2b805b3ee8faf
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,<div>thank you for the additional information. I=
 understand your concerns=C2=A0and agree that it is helpful to provide impl=
ementors and operators with useful information about the potential impact t=
he new functionality may demonstrate in the network and how to mitigate the=
 risks. I believe it is important to recognize that this draft proposes mec=
hanisms that expedite the failure detection in a P-tunnel from the perspect=
ive of a downstream PE. And the detection directly impacts the control plan=
e, not the data plane. I believe that it is difficult to make any assumptio=
ns on how the convergence in the control plane may impact the forwarding pl=
ane and what effect that will have on a multicast flow. I think that very m=
uch depends on the implementation and the HW capabilities of the platform u=
sed. I&#39;ve moved=C2=A0the new text from Section 3.1 into the Security Co=
nsiderations section. Please let me know if you think that is a more approp=
riate place for that paragraph.</div><div>Also, I&#39;ve realized that the =
text I&#39;ve proposed earlier that refers to 1:N and N:M protection might =
be the source of questions and arguments and would like to withdraw it. I h=
ope you&#39;ll agree.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;ve attached the new di=
ff reflecting the changes in the working version.</div><div><br></div><div>=
Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 9:02 AM=
 Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com">daniel.m=
igault@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Greg,=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks for the response Greg. This seems to go in the right direction, but =
I think it would be nice to detail a bit on the negative impact that may re=
sult from the fast-fail over.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
&quot;&quot;&quot;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">unnecessary
 failover=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32=
,31,30);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">negatively
 impacting the multicast service</span><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">&quot;&quot;&quot;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">I
 apology to appear being maybe a bit picky, but, at least to me, the securi=
ty consideration section is the place to point on specific impacts that an =
operator may not have thought of and the text appears to me a bit too vague=
 on what can impact negatively the
 multicast service.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">Let
 me dig a bit on what I mean and probably what information I would have exp=
ected to find. Maybe that would have been useful I provided those earlier.=
=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helv=
etica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Again,
 not being an expert in this area, please take my following recommendations=
 with a pitch of salt.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
What I would like, for example, to understand is whether having a fast-fail=
over between nodes that work properly results in a packet lost or not.=C2=
=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I also envision that in some cases, this will result in packet re-ordering =
which might result in packet being rejected by the end node.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
In IPsec vpns, we have specific counters, keys that make fail-over relative=
ly complex as a context has to be maintained between the old and the new no=
de to pass anti replay protection and enable appropriated encryption/decryp=
tion. It would be good to clarify
 if any parameters need - or not - to be synchronized between the two nodes=
 as its transfer represents a risk of disrupting the traffic, and thus may =
be mentioned.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
There probably other points I am missing due to my lack of expertise - espe=
cially those due to operational practices.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I believe that any information that you could think of that would encourage=
 you to double check/validate a network outage is present over performing t=
he fast failover might be useful information.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Similarly, it would be good to mention cases where an operator may choose n=
ot to deploy such mechanism.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Yours,=C2=A0<br>
Daniel</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_5353534145435562934appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_5353534145435562934divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=
=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From=
:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com=
" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ietf=
.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;; BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">last-call@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">last-call@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-=
mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fas=
t-failover.all@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast=
-failover.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failove=
r.all@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fa=
ilover-11</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,
<div>thank you for your kind consideration of my notes. I&#39;ve top-copied=
 what appeared to me as the remaining open issues. I hope I&#39;ve not=C2=
=A0missed=C2=A0any of your questions. Please find my notes in-line below ta=
gged GIM&gt;&gt;. Attached are the updated working version
 and the new diff.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively =
a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to =
a fast-fail-over without any network failure.=C2=A0 This would be useful fo=
r an operator to evaluate whether it
 should spend more time in diagnosing a network failure versus performing a=
 fast-fail-over.
<br>
Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would ma=
ybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3. =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0<br>
<br>
At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to charac=
terize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it seems t=
o me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators. =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</div>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I would like to add a new paragraph in Section 3.1:</div>
<div>NEW TEXT:</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0All methods described in this section may produce false-n=
egative<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0state changes that can be the trigger for an unnecessary failo=
ver<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0negatively impacting the multicast service provided by the VPN=
.=C2=A0 An<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0operator expected to consider the network environment and use<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0available controls of the mechanism used to determine the stat=
us of a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0P-tunnel.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Would the new text be helpful?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not rec=
ommended these two mechanism co-exist.
<br>
How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft I=
 agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to =
the impacts associated to a fail-over.=C2=A0 In case the fast-failover come=
s with no impact this becomes less of
 a problem for operator deploying it.<br>
=C2=A0<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</div>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I hope that the new text presented above addresses this co=
ncern.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N s=
cenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the issue=
.
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</div>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I propose adding the clarification of the use of the Sandb=
y PE in Section 4:</div>
<div>OLD TEXT:</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The procedures described below are limited to the case wh=
ere the site<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described=
.<br>
</div>
<div>NEW TEXT:</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The procedures described below are limited to the case wh=
ere the site<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described=
.=C2=A0 Such<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a redundancy protection scheme, referred to as 1:N protection,=
 is the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0special case of M:N protection, where M working instances are =
sharing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0protection of the N standby instances.=C2=A0 In addition to a =
network<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0failure detection mechanism, the latter scheme requires using =
a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanism to coordinate the failover among working instances.=
=C2=A0 For<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that reason, M:N protection is outside the scope of this<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0specification.=C2=A0<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:48 AM Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@er=
icsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Greg,=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks for the response and clarifications. Most of my comments have been a=
ddressed/answered. However, it seems to me that some additional text might =
be added to the security consideration section document the impact on the n=
etwork of a fast-failover operation.
 The knowledge of these impact might be useful for an operator to determine=
 when the trigger can be done.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Please see more comments inline.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Yours,=C2=A0<br>
Daniel=C2=A0</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_5353534145435562934x_gmail-m_-6627391055567166672appendo=
nsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_5353534145435562934x_gmail-m_-6627391055567166672divRply=
FwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregi=
mirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com=
" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ietf=
.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;; BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">last-call@ietf.org<=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">last-call@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:d=
raft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-iet=
f-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fa=
ilover-11</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,
<div>many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all ar=
e much appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to you=
r comments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM&gt=
;&gt;. Attached are the new working version
 and the diff to -12.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatra=
cker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">noreply@ietf=
.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Reviewer: Daniel Migault<br>
Review result: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Hi, <br>
<br>
<br>
I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate&#39;s ongoing =
effort to<br>
review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.=C2=A0 These comments=
 were<br>
written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.=C2=A0 Doc=
ument<br>
authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just l=
ike<br>
any other IETF Last Call comments.=C2=A0 Please note also that my expertise=
 in BGP is<br>
limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.=C2=A0 <b=
r>
<br>
Review Results: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Please find my comments below. <br>
<br>
Yours, <br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Multicast VP=
N Fast Upstream Failover<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-be=
ss-mvpn-fast-failover-11<br>
<br>
Abstract<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures =
that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstr=
eam PEs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels=
) when<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extend=
ing BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised tow=
ard a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Standby Upstream PE.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN<br>
designates multicast VPN, it might be<br>
clarifying to specify the acronym in the<br>
first sentence. This would later make<br>
the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I&#39;ve updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mV=
PN/MVPN/ throughout the document.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
1.=C2=A0 Introduction<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable =
to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0different types of failures.=C2=A0 This document addresses fai=
lures of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs conn=
ected<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to VPN sites with receivers.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Well I am not familiar with neither BGP<br>
nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS<br>
and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am<br>
wondering if there is a distinction<br>
between the two and a preferred way to<br>
designate these VPNs.=C2=A0 My understanding<br>
is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the<br>
VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone<br>
for the transport.=C2=A0 Since the PE are<br>
connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4<br>
needs to be labeled. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I understand that this document often sends the reader to =
check RFC 6513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of provid=
ing a multicast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed=C2=A0on the MPLS d=
ata plane using the BGP control plane.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a =
PE<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status =
of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a =
given<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(C-S, C-G).=C2=A0 This method does not provide a &quot;fast fa=
ilover&quot; solution<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I understand the limitation is due to<br>
BGP convergence. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provide=
s the service restoration functionality but the restoration time is signifi=
cant and affects the experience of a client.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0described in Section 4 for a &quot;fast failover&quot; solutio=
n.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up fail=
over by<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at re=
covery<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0time.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Moreover, section 5 describes a &quot;hot leaf standby&quot; m=
echanism, that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0uses a combination of these two mechanisms.=C2=A0 This approac=
h has<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to impro=
ve<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given som=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0topology and metric constraints.<br>
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.1.=C2=A0 mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is=
 that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel att=
ribute,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is reachable through unicast routing tables.=C2=A0 In this cas=
e, the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachabi=
lity<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0condition changes.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, excep=
t that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but th=
e root<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root a=
ddress<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop addre=
ss in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in un=
icast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific b=
enefit.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
It seems to me that x-PMSI address<br>
designates a different interface than<br>
the one used by the Tunnel itself. If<br>
that is correct, such mechanisms seems<br>
to assume that one equipment up on one<br>
interface will be up on the other<br>
interfaces. I have the impression that a<br>
configuration change in a PE may end up<br>
in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE<br>
still being reachable though the x-PMSI<br>
Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible<br>
scenario, the current mechanisms may not<br>
provide more efficient mechanism than<br>
then those of the standard BGP.<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, =
and in the Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some as=
sumptions=C2=A0about the state of the remote system based on a single event=
 or change of state. Usually, AFAIK, operators
 use not a physical interface but a loopback to associate with a tunnel. Wi=
th a fast IGP convergence, a loopback interface is reachable as long as the=
re&#39;s a path through the network between two nodes.</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Thanks for the clarification</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is<br>
either up or down and the determination<br>
of not being up if being down.=C2=A0 I am not<br>
convinced that the two only states.<br>
Typically services under DDoS may be<br>
down for a small amount of time. While<br>
this affects the network, there is not<br>
always a clear cut between the PE being<br>
up or down. <br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 In defect detection a system often has some hysteres=
is, i.e., time that the system has to wait to change its state. For example=
, BFD changes state from Up to Down after the system does not receive N con=
secutive packets (usually 3). As a result,
 in some cases, the system can be tuned to detect relatively short outages =
while in others be slower and miss short-lived outages.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.6.=C2=A0 BFD Discriminator Attribute<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint=
 BFD<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0x-PMSI A-D Route.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attribute called the &quot;BFD Discriminator&quot;.=C2=A0 It i=
s an optional<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0transitive BGP attribute.=C2=A0 In Section 7.2, IANA is reques=
ted to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).=C2=A0 The format of this =
attribute is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0shown in Figure 1.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I feel that the sentence &quot;In Section ...<br>
TBA2).&quot; should be removed.<br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usu=
ally, this text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<div>In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A03<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 =
4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Mode=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reserved=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0BFD Discriminator=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ~=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Optional TLVs=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0~<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discr=
iminator Attribute<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Where:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Mode field is the one octet long.=C2=A0 This speci=
fication defines<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUS=
T be zeroed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on transmission and ignored on receipt.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Morin, et al.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Expires April =
5, 2021=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[Page =
7]<br>
<br>
Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mVPN Fast Upstream Failover=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 October 2020<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field th=
at MAY be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future ext=
ensions.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.=
=C2=A0 To allow<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as =
a variable-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 length object.=C2=A0 Figure 2 presents the Optional TL=
V format TLV that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 consists of:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 one octet-long field of TLV &#39;s Type value =
(Section 7.3)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 one octet-long field of the length of the Valu=
e field in octets<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 variable length Value field.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.<b=
r>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I am wondering why the constraint on the<br>
length is not mentioned in the paragraph<br>
associated to the field - as opposed to<br>
a=C2=A0 separate paragraph. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length=
 and length. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length =
of the Value field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV=
, including lengths of Type, Length and
 Value fields.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>you are correct that might have confused me.=C2=A0</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
[..]<br>
<br>
8.=C2=A0 Security Considerations<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC=
6514]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and hence shares the security considerations respectively repr=
esented<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in these specifications.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, i=
n turn,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is based on [RFC5880].=C2=A0 Security considerations relevant =
to each<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specificatio=
ns.=C2=A0 An<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mec=
hanism<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be=
 active<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0at the same time.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
At a high level view - or at least my<br>
interpretation of it - the document<br>
proposes a mechanism based on BFD to<br>
detect fault in the path.=C2=A0 Upon a fault<br>
detection a fail-over operation is<br>
instructed using BGP. This rocedure is<br>
expected to perform a faster fail-over<br>
than traditional BGP convergence on<br>
maintaining routing tables. Once the<br>
fail over has been performed, BFD is<br>
confirms the new path is &quot;legitimate&quot;<br>
and works.<br>
<br>
It seems correct to me that the current<br>
protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.<br>
That said, having BFD authentication<br>
based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that<br>
stronger primitives be recommended.<br>
While this does not concerns the current<br>
document, it seems to me that the<br>
information might be relayed to routing<br>
ADs. <br>
<br>
What remains unclear to me - and I<br>
assume this might be due to my lake or<br>
expertise in routing area - is the impact<br>
associated to performing a fail-over<br>
both on 1) the data plane and 2) the<br>
standard BGP way to establish routing<br>
tables. <br>
<br>
Regarding the data plane, I am wondering<br>
if fail-over results in a lost of<br>
packets for example - I suppose for<br>
example that at least the packets in the<br>
process of being forwarded might be<br>
lost. I believe that providing details<br>
on this may be good. <br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. W=
ith network failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the =
reaction to a network failure.=C2=A0 If that is the case, then packet loss =
experienced by service due to the fail-over
 is the result of the network failure. Would you agree with that view? A sh=
orter failure detection interval=C2=A0and faster fail-over should minimize =
the packet loss and, as a result, the negative impact on the service itself=
.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definiti=
vely a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associate=
d to a fast-fail-over without any network failure.=C2=A0 This would be usef=
ul for an operator to evaluate whether
 it should spend more time in diagnosing a network failure versus performin=
g a fast-fail-over.=C2=A0</div>
<div>Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator wou=
ld maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to c=
haracterize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it se=
ems to me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
If there are any impacts I would like to<br>
understand also in which cases the<br>
decision to perform a failover operation<br>
may result in more harm than the event<br>
that has been over-interpreted. An<br>
hypothetical scenario could be that the<br>
non reception of a BFD packet is<br>
interpreted as a PE being down while it<br>
may not be correct and the PE might have<br>
been simply under stress. A &quot;too fast&quot; fail-over<br>
may over interpreted it and perform a<br>
fail-over. If such things could happen,<br>
an attacker could leverage a micro event<br>
to perform network operation that are<br>
not negligible. Another way to see that<br>
is that an attacker might not have<br>
direct access to the control plan, but<br>
could use the data plan to generate a<br>
stress and sort of control the fail<br>
over. It seems to me that some text<br>
might be welcome to prevent such cases<br>
to happen. This could be guidance for<br>
declaring a tunnel down for example. <br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval =
may produce a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus t=
riggering the fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue, so=
mething that an operator will consider
 when deploying the mechanism specified in this draft. Resulting from addre=
ssing RtgDir review the draft was updated to provide more guidance:</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cau=
se<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.<br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is no=
t recommended these two mechanism co-exist.=C2=A0</div>
<div>How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the dr=
aft I agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relatio=
n to the impacts associated to a fail-over.=C2=A0 In case the fast-failover=
 comes with no impact this becomes less
 of a problem for operator deploying it.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also appli=
es to the scenario you&#39;ve presented.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it would be good to add some<br>
text regarding the interferences with<br>
the non-fast forwarding fail over when<br>
performed by the standard BGP.<br>
Typically, my impression is that the<br>
fast fail-over mechanism is a local<br>
decision versus the BGP convergence that<br>
is more global. As a result, even with<br>
more time this two mechanisms may come<br>
with different outcomes. One such<br>
example to illustrate my purpose could<br>
be the following. Note that this is only<br>
illustrative of my purpose, and I let<br>
you find and pick on ethat is more<br>
appropriated.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I am thinking of a case<br>
where a standby PE is be shared among<br>
multiple PEs - supposing this situation<br>
could occur.=C2=A0 Typically, if PE_1, PE_2<br>
are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case<br>
PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a<br>
to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to<br>
PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end<br>
up in such situation while a local<br>
decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to<br>
switch to PE_1. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deployin=
g protection based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referre=
d to as M:N protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network =
failure, e.g., BFD, require a protocol
 to coordinate the switchover. This specification applies to a more special=
 deployment scenario where one working PE is protected by one or more stand=
by PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if =
M:N scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the =
issue.=C2=A0</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

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From: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
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Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 21:32:51 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/dQEJPG3QorIrrA6jIcVF6b3kLEs>
Subject: Re: [bess] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
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Thanks for the response and explanation. I am fine with the text you propos=
ed and I consider all my concerns being addressed.

I am reading your text as implicitly suggesting the following lines of your=
 response, which seems reasonable.

"""
 it is difficult to make any assumptions on how the convergence in the cont=
rol plane may impact the forwarding plane and what effect that will have on=
 a multicast flow. I think that very much depends on the implementation and=
 the HW capabilities of the platform used.
"""

There  one additional nit s/sectionSection/Section/ which I think comes fro=
m the conversion.

Thanks for all your clarifications!

Yours,
Daniel

________________________________
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 3:14 PM
To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
Cc: secdir@ietf.org <secdir@ietf.org>; BESS <bess@ietf.org>; last-call@ietf=
.org <last-call@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org =
<draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-=
11

Hi Daniel,
thank you for the additional information. I understand your concerns and ag=
ree that it is helpful to provide implementors and operators with useful in=
formation about the potential impact the new functionality may demonstrate =
in the network and how to mitigate the risks. I believe it is important to =
recognize that this draft proposes mechanisms that expedite the failure det=
ection in a P-tunnel from the perspective of a downstream PE. And the detec=
tion directly impacts the control plane, not the data plane. I believe that=
 it is difficult to make any assumptions on how the convergence in the cont=
rol plane may impact the forwarding plane and what effect that will have on=
 a multicast flow. I think that very much depends on the implementation and=
 the HW capabilities of the platform used. I've moved the new text from Sec=
tion 3.1 into the Security Considerations section. Please let me know if yo=
u think that is a more appropriate place for that paragraph.
Also, I've realized that the text I've proposed earlier that refers to 1:N =
and N:M protection might be the source of questions and arguments and would=
 like to withdraw it. I hope you'll agree.

I've attached the new diff reflecting the changes in the working version.

Regards,
Greg


On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 9:02 AM Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com=
<mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com>> wrote:
Hi Greg,

Thanks for the response Greg. This seems to go in the right direction, but =
I think it would be nice to detail a bit on the negative impact that may re=
sult from the fast-fail over.

"""
unnecessary failover negatively impacting the multicast service
"""

I apology to appear being maybe a bit picky, but, at least to me, the secur=
ity consideration section is the place to point on specific impacts that an=
 operator may not have thought of and the text appears to me a bit too vagu=
e on what can impact negatively the multicast service.

Let me dig a bit on what I mean and probably what information I would have =
expected to find. Maybe that would have been useful I provided those earlie=
r. Again, not being an expert in this area, please take my following recomm=
endations with a pitch of salt.

What I would like, for example, to understand is whether having a fast-fail=
over between nodes that work properly results in a packet lost or not.
I also envision that in some cases, this will result in packet re-ordering =
which might result in packet being rejected by the end node.
In IPsec vpns, we have specific counters, keys that make fail-over relative=
ly complex as a context has to be maintained between the old and the new no=
de to pass anti replay protection and enable appropriated encryption/decryp=
tion. It would be good to clarify if any parameters need - or not - to be s=
ynchronized between the two nodes as its transfer represents a risk of disr=
upting the traffic, and thus may be mentioned.
There probably other points I am missing due to my lack of expertise - espe=
cially those due to operational practices.
I believe that any information that you could think of that would encourage=
 you to double check/validate a network outage is present over performing t=
he fast failover might be useful information.
Similarly, it would be good to mention cases where an operator may choose n=
ot to deploy such mechanism.

Yours,
Daniel

________________________________
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:47 AM
To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com<mailto:daniel.migault@erics=
son.com>>
Cc: secdir@ietf.org<mailto:secdir@ietf.org> <secdir@ietf.org<mailto:secdir@=
ietf.org>>; BESS <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>; last-call@ietf.org<=
mailto:last-call@ietf.org> <last-call@ietf.org<mailto:last-call@ietf.org>>;=
 draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvp=
n-fast-failover.all@ietf.org> <draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.=
org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-=
11

Hi Daniel,
thank you for your kind consideration of my notes. I've top-copied what app=
eared to me as the remaining open issues. I hope I've not missed any of you=
r questions. Please find my notes in-line below tagged GIM>>. Attached are =
the updated working version and the new diff.

Regards,
Greg

<mglt>
sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively =
a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to =
a fast-fail-over without any network failure.  This would be useful for an =
operator to evaluate whether it should spend more time in diagnosing a netw=
ork failure versus performing a fast-fail-over.
Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would ma=
ybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.

At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to charac=
terize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it seems t=
o me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators.
</mglt>
GIM>> I would like to add a new paragraph in Section 3.1:
NEW TEXT:
   All methods described in this section may produce false-negative
   state changes that can be the trigger for an unnecessary failover
   negatively impacting the multicast service provided by the VPN.  An
   operator expected to consider the network environment and use
   available controls of the mechanism used to determine the status of a
   P-tunnel.

Would the new text be helpful?

<mglt>
Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not rec=
ommended these two mechanism co-exist.
How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft I=
 agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to =
the impacts associated to a fail-over.  In case the fast-failover comes wit=
h no impact this becomes less of a problem for operator deploying it.

</mglt>
GIM>> I hope that the new text presented above addresses this concern.

<mglt>
I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N s=
cenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the issue=
.
</mglt>
GIM>> I propose adding the clarification of the use of the Sandby PE in Sec=
tion 4:
OLD TEXT:
   The procedures described below are limited to the case where the site
   that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to
   simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described.
NEW TEXT:
   The procedures described below are limited to the case where the site
   that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to
   simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described.  Such
   a redundancy protection scheme, referred to as 1:N protection, is the
   special case of M:N protection, where M working instances are sharing
   protection of the N standby instances.  In addition to a network
   failure detection mechanism, the latter scheme requires using a
   mechanism to coordinate the failover among working instances.  For
   that reason, M:N protection is outside the scope of this
   specification.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:48 AM Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com=
<mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com>> wrote:
Hi Greg,

Thanks for the response and clarifications. Most of my comments have been a=
ddressed/answered. However, it seems to me that some additional text might =
be added to the security consideration section document the impact on the n=
etwork of a fast-failover operation. The knowledge of these impact might be=
 useful for an operator to determine when the trigger can be done.

Please see more comments inline.

Yours,
Daniel

________________________________
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:13 PM
To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com<mailto:daniel.migault@erics=
son.com>>
Cc: secdir@ietf.org<mailto:secdir@ietf.org> <secdir@ietf.org<mailto:secdir@=
ietf.org>>; BESS <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>; last-call@ietf.org<=
mailto:last-call@ietf.org> <last-call@ietf.org<mailto:last-call@ietf.org>>;=
 draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvp=
n-fast-failover.all@ietf.org> <draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.=
org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-=
11

Hi Daniel,
many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all are muc=
h appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to your com=
ments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM>>. Atta=
ched are the new working version and the diff to -12.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatracker <noreply@iet=
f.org<mailto:noreply@ietf.org>> wrote:
Reviewer: Daniel Migault
Review result: Has Nits

Hi,


I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate's ongoing effo=
rt to
review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.  These comments were
written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.  Document
authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just l=
ike
any other IETF Last Call comments.  Please note also that my expertise in B=
GP is
limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.

Review Results: Has Nits

Please find my comments below.

Yours,
Daniel


                  Multicast VPN Fast Upstream Failover
                 draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11

Abstract

   This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures that
   allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstream PEs
   to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels) when
   selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extending BGP
   MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised toward a
   Standby Upstream PE.

<mglt>
Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN
designates multicast VPN, it might be
clarifying to specify the acronym in the
first sentence. This would later make
the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer.

</mglt>
GIM>> I've updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mVPN/MVPN/ throug=
hout the document.


1.  Introduction

   In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable to
   provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on
   different types of failures.  This document addresses failures of
   elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs connected
   to VPN sites with receivers.

<mglt>
Well I am not familiar with neither BGP
nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS
and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am
wondering if there is a distinction
between the two and a preferred way to
designate these VPNs.  My understanding
is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the
VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone
for the transport.  Since the PE are
connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4
needs to be labeled.

</mglt>
GIM>> I understand that this document often sends the reader to check RFC 6=
513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of providing a multi=
cast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed on the MPLS data plane using =
the BGP control plane.

   Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a PE
   connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status of
   P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a given
   (C-S, C-G).  This method does not provide a "fast failover" solution
<mglt>
I understand the limitation is due to
BGP convergence.

</mglt>
GIM>> Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provides the servi=
ce restoration functionality but the restoration time is significant and af=
fects the experience of a client.

   when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism
   described in Section 4 for a "fast failover" solution.

   Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up failover by
   not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at recovery
   time.

   Moreover, section 5 describes a "hot leaf standby" mechanism, that
   uses a combination of these two mechanisms.  This approach has
   similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to improve
   failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given some
   topology and metric constraints.


[...]

3.1.1.  mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking

   A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is that
   the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute,
   is reachable through unicast routing tables.  In this case, the
   downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachability
   condition changes.

   That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, except that
   the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but the root
   address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.

   If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root address
   of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop address in
   the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in unicast
   routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be
   unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific benefit.

<mglt>
It seems to me that x-PMSI address
designates a different interface than
the one used by the Tunnel itself. If
that is correct, such mechanisms seems
to assume that one equipment up on one
interface will be up on the other
interfaces. I have the impression that a
configuration change in a PE may end up
in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE
still being reachable though the x-PMSI
Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible
scenario, the current mechanisms may not
provide more efficient mechanism than
then those of the standard BGP.
GIM>> That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, and in the =
Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some assumptions a=
bout the state of the remote system based on a single event or change of st=
ate. Usually, AFAIK, operators use not a physical interface but a loopback =
to associate with a tunnel. With a fast IGP convergence, a loopback interfa=
ce is reachable as long as there's a path through the network between two n=
odes.
<mglt>
Thanks for the clarification
</mglt>

Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is
either up or down and the determination
of not being up if being down.  I am not
convinced that the two only states.
Typically services under DDoS may be
down for a small amount of time. While
this affects the network, there is not
always a clear cut between the PE being
up or down.
</mglt>
GIM>>  In defect detection a system often has some hysteresis, i.e., time t=
hat the system has to wait to change its state. For example, BFD changes st=
ate from Up to Down after the system does not receive N consecutive packets=
 (usually 3). As a result, in some cases, the system can be tuned to detect=
 relatively short outages while in others be slower and miss short-lived ou=
tages.


[...]

3.1.6.  BFD Discriminator Attribute

   P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint BFD
   session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with an
   x-PMSI A-D Route.

   This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP
   attribute called the "BFD Discriminator".  It is an optional
   transitive BGP attribute.  In Section 7.2, IANA is requested to
   allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).  The format of this attribute is
   shown in Figure 1.

<mglt>
I feel that the sentence "In Section ...
TBA2)." should be removed.

</mglt>
GIM>> We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usually, this =
text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read
In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.



       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |    BFD Mode   |                  Reserved                     |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                       BFD Discriminator                       |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      ~                         Optional TLVs                         ~
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


            Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discriminator Attribute

   Where:

      BFD Mode field is the one octet long.  This specification defines
      the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.

      Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUST be zeroed
      on transmission and ignored on receipt.

      BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.





Morin, et al.             Expires April 5, 2021                 [Page 7]

Internet-Draft         mVPN Fast Upstream Failover          October 2020


      Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field that MAY be
      used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future extensions.
      TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.  To allow
      for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as a variable-
      length object.  Figure 2 presents the Optional TLV format TLV that
      consists of:

      *  one octet-long field of TLV 's Type value (Section 7.3)

      *  one octet-long field of the length of the Value field in octets

      *  variable length Value field.

      The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.
<mglt>
I am wondering why the constraint on the
length is not mentioned in the paragraph
associated to the field - as opposed to
a  separate paragraph.

</mglt>
GIM>> There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length and length=
. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length of the Valu=
e field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV, including=
 lengths of Type, Length and Value fields.

<mglt>
you are correct that might have confused me.
</mglt>

[..]

8.  Security Considerations

   This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC6514]
   and hence shares the security considerations respectively represented
   in these specifications.

   This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, in turn,
   is based on [RFC5880].  Security considerations relevant to each
   protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specifications.  An
   implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mechanism
   to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be active
   at the same time.

<mglt>
At a high level view - or at least my
interpretation of it - the document
proposes a mechanism based on BFD to
detect fault in the path.  Upon a fault
detection a fail-over operation is
instructed using BGP. This rocedure is
expected to perform a faster fail-over
than traditional BGP convergence on
maintaining routing tables. Once the
fail over has been performed, BFD is
confirms the new path is "legitimate"
and works.

It seems correct to me that the current
protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.
That said, having BFD authentication
based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that
stronger primitives be recommended.
While this does not concerns the current
document, it seems to me that the
information might be relayed to routing
ADs.

What remains unclear to me - and I
assume this might be due to my lake or
expertise in routing area - is the impact
associated to performing a fail-over
both on 1) the data plane and 2) the
standard BGP way to establish routing
tables.

Regarding the data plane, I am wondering
if fail-over results in a lost of
packets for example - I suppose for
example that at least the packets in the
process of being forwarded might be
lost. I believe that providing details
on this may be good.
GIM>> You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. With network=
 failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the reaction to=
 a network failure.  If that is the case, then packet loss experienced by s=
ervice due to the fail-over is the result of the network failure. Would you=
 agree with that view? A shorter failure detection interval and faster fail=
-over should minimize the packet loss and, as a result, the negative impact=
 on the service itself.

<mglt>
sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively =
a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to =
a fast-fail-over without any network failure.  This would be useful for an =
operator to evaluate whether it should spend more time in diagnosing a netw=
ork failure versus performing a fast-fail-over.
Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would ma=
ybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.

At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to charac=
terize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it seems t=
o me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators.
</mglt>

If there are any impacts I would like to
understand also in which cases the
decision to perform a failover operation
may result in more harm than the event
that has been over-interpreted. An
hypothetical scenario could be that the
non reception of a BFD packet is
interpreted as a PE being down while it
may not be correct and the PE might have
been simply under stress. A "too fast" fail-over
may over interpreted it and perform a
fail-over. If such things could happen,
an attacker could leverage a micro event
to perform network operation that are
not negligible. Another way to see that
is that an attacker might not have
direct access to the control plan, but
could use the data plan to generate a
stress and sort of control the fail
over. It seems to me that some text
might be welcome to prevent such cases
to happen. This could be guidance for
declaring a tunnel down for example.
GIM>> I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval may produce=
 a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus triggering t=
he fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue, something tha=
t an operator will consider when deploying the mechanism specified in this =
draft. Resulting from addressing RtgDir review the draft was updated to pro=
vide more guidance:
   In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection
   methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cause
   unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.
<mglt>
Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not rec=
ommended these two mechanism co-exist.
How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft I=
 agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to =
the impacts associated to a fail-over.  In case the fast-failover comes wit=
h no impact this becomes less of a problem for operator deploying it.

</mglt>
Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also applies to=
 the scenario you've presented.

Similarly, it would be good to add some
text regarding the interferences with
the non-fast forwarding fail over when
performed by the standard BGP.
Typically, my impression is that the
fast fail-over mechanism is a local
decision versus the BGP convergence that
is more global. As a result, even with
more time this two mechanisms may come
with different outcomes. One such
example to illustrate my purpose could
be the following. Note that this is only
illustrative of my purpose, and I let
you find and pick on ethat is more
appropriated.   I am thinking of a case
where a standby PE is be shared among
multiple PEs - supposing this situation
could occur.  Typically, if PE_1, PE_2
are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case
PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a
to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to
PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end
up in such situation while a local
decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to
switch to PE_1.

</mglt>
GIM>> Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deploying protectio=
n based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referred to as M:N=
 protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network failure, e.=
g., BFD, require a protocol to coordinate the switchover. This specificatio=
n applies to a more special deployment scenario where one working PE is pro=
tected by one or more standby PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.

<mglt>
I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N s=
cenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the issue=
.
</mglt>

--_000_DM6PR15MB2379A3F41D9EDE7A22BC7DBAE3E70DM6PR15MB2379namp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Thanks for the response and explanation. I am fine with the text you propos=
ed and I consider all my concerns being addressed.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I am reading your text as implicitly suggesting the following lines of your=
 response, which seems reasonable.&nbsp; &nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&quot;&quot;&quot;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32, 31, 30);font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quo=
t;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, =
BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;font-siz=
e:15px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important"><span=
>&nbsp;</span>it
 is difficult to make any assumptions on how the convergence in the control=
 plane may impact the forwarding plane and what effect that will have on a =
multicast flow. I think that very much depends on the implementation and th=
e HW capabilities of the platform
 used.</span><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32, 31, 30);font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quo=
t;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, =
BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;font-siz=
e:15px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important">&quot=
;&quot;&quot;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32, 31, 30);font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quo=
t;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, =
BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;font-siz=
e:15px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32, 31, 30);font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quo=
t;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, =
BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;font-siz=
e:15px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important">There=
&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(32, 31, 30); font-family: &quot;Sego=
e UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;,=
 -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, san=
s-serif; font-size: 15px;">&nbsp;one
 additional nit s/sectionSection/Section/ which I think comes from the conv=
ersion.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"color: rgb(32, 31, 30); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &=
quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-syste=
m, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font=
-size: 15px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"color: rgb(32, 31, 30); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &=
quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-syste=
m, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font=
-size: 15px;">Thanks for all your clarifications!</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"color: rgb(32, 31, 30); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &=
quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-syste=
m, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font=
-size: 15px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"color: rgb(32, 31, 30); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &=
quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-syste=
m, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font=
-size: 15px;">Yours,&nbsp;<br>
Daniel</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;gregi=
mirsky@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2020 3:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Migault &lt;daniel.migault@ericsson.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> secdir@ietf.org &lt;secdir@ietf.org&gt;; BESS &lt;bess@ietf.org&=
gt;; last-call@ietf.org &lt;last-call@ietf.org&gt;; draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fa=
st-failover.all@ietf.org &lt;draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.or=
g&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fa=
ilover-11</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,
<div>thank you for the additional information. I understand your concerns&n=
bsp;and agree that it is helpful to provide implementors and operators with=
 useful information about the potential impact the new functionality may de=
monstrate in the network and how to mitigate
 the risks. I believe it is important to recognize that this draft proposes=
 mechanisms that expedite the failure detection in a P-tunnel from the pers=
pective of a downstream PE. And the detection directly impacts the control =
plane, not the data plane. I believe
 that it is difficult to make any assumptions on how the convergence in the=
 control plane may impact the forwarding plane and what effect that will ha=
ve on a multicast flow. I think that very much depends on the implementatio=
n and the HW capabilities of the
 platform used. I've moved&nbsp;the new text from Section 3.1 into the Secu=
rity Considerations section. Please let me know if you think that is a more=
 appropriate place for that paragraph.</div>
<div>Also, I've realized that the text I've proposed earlier that refers to=
 1:N and N:M protection might be the source of questions and arguments and =
would like to withdraw it. I hope you'll agree.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've attached the new diff reflecting the changes in the working versi=
on.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 9:02 AM Dan=
iel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com">daniel.migau=
lt@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Greg,&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks for the response Greg. This seems to go in the right direction, but =
I think it would be nice to detail a bit on the negative impact that may re=
sult from the fast-fail over.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
&quot;&quot;&quot;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px; font-size:15px; color:rgb(32,31,30); background-=
color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline">unnecessary failover&nbsp;</span><s=
pan style=3D"margin:0px; font-size:15px; color:rgb(32,31,30); background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline">negatively
 impacting the multicast service</span><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px; font-size:15px; color:rgb(32,31,30); background-=
color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline">&quot;&quot;&quot;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px; font-size:15px; color:rgb(32,31,30); background-=
color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px; font-size:15px; color:rgb(32,31,30); background-=
color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline">I apology to appear being maybe a b=
it picky, but, at least to me, the security consideration section is the pl=
ace to point on specific impacts that
 an operator may not have thought of and the text appears to me a bit too v=
ague on what can impact negatively the multicast service.&nbsp;</span></div=
>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px; font-size:15px; color:rgb(32,31,30); background-=
color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px; font-size:15px; color:rgb(32,31,30); background-=
color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline">Let me dig a bit on what I mean and=
 probably what information I would have expected to find. Maybe that would =
have been useful I provided those
 earlier.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,=
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">Again, not being an expert in t=
his area, please take my following recommendations with a pitch of salt.&nb=
sp;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
What I would like, for example, to understand is whether having a fast-fail=
over between nodes that work properly results in a packet lost or not.&nbsp=
;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I also envision that in some cases, this will result in packet re-ordering =
which might result in packet being rejected by the end node.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
In IPsec vpns, we have specific counters, keys that make fail-over relative=
ly complex as a context has to be maintained between the old and the new no=
de to pass anti replay protection and enable appropriated encryption/decryp=
tion. It would be good to clarify
 if any parameters need - or not - to be synchronized between the two nodes=
 as its transfer represents a risk of disrupting the traffic, and thus may =
be mentioned.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
There probably other points I am missing due to my lack of expertise - espe=
cially those due to operational practices.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I believe that any information that you could think of that would encourage=
 you to double check/validate a network outage is present over performing t=
he fast failover might be useful information.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Similarly, it would be good to mention cases where an operator may choose n=
ot to deploy such mechanism.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Yours,&nbsp;<br>
Daniel</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_gmail-m_5353534145435562934appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_gmail-m_5353534145435562934divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font fa=
ce=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>Fr=
om:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com=
" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ietf=
.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;; BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">last-call@ietf.org<=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">last-call@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:d=
raft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-iet=
f-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fa=
ilover-11</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,
<div>thank you for your kind consideration of my notes. I've top-copied wha=
t appeared to me as the remaining open issues. I hope I've not&nbsp;missed&=
nbsp;any of your questions. Please find my notes in-line below tagged GIM&g=
t;&gt;. Attached are the updated working version
 and the new diff.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively =
a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to =
a fast-fail-over without any network failure.&nbsp; This would be useful fo=
r an operator to evaluate whether it
 should spend more time in diagnosing a network failure versus performing a=
 fast-fail-over.
<br>
Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would ma=
ybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3. &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
<br>
At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to charac=
terize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it seems t=
o me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators. &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</div>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I would like to add a new paragraph in Section 3.1:</div>
<div>NEW TEXT:</div>
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp;All methods described in this section may produce false-n=
egative<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;state changes that can be the trigger for an unnecessary failo=
ver<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;negatively impacting the multicast service provided by the VPN=
.&nbsp; An<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;operator expected to consider the network environment and use<=
br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;available controls of the mechanism used to determine the stat=
us of a<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;P-tunnel.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Would the new text be helpful?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not rec=
ommended these two mechanism co-exist.
<br>
How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft I=
 agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to =
the impacts associated to a fail-over.&nbsp; In case the fast-failover come=
s with no impact this becomes less of
 a problem for operator deploying it.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</div>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I hope that the new text presented above addresses this co=
ncern.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N s=
cenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the issue=
.
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</div>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I propose adding the clarification of the use of the Sandb=
y PE in Section 4:</div>
<div>OLD TEXT:</div>
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp;The procedures described below are limited to the case wh=
ere the site<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to<=
br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described=
.<br>
</div>
<div>NEW TEXT:</div>
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp;The procedures described below are limited to the case wh=
ere the site<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to<=
br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described=
.&nbsp; Such<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;a redundancy protection scheme, referred to as 1:N protection,=
 is the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;special case of M:N protection, where M working instances are =
sharing<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protection of the N standby instances.&nbsp; In addition to a =
network<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;failure detection mechanism, the latter scheme requires using =
a<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;mechanism to coordinate the failover among working instances.&=
nbsp; For<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;that reason, M:N protection is outside the scope of this<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;specification.&nbsp;<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:48 AM Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@er=
icsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Greg,&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks for the response and clarifications. Most of my comments have been a=
ddressed/answered. However, it seems to me that some additional text might =
be added to the security consideration section document the impact on the n=
etwork of a fast-failover operation.
 The knowledge of these impact might be useful for an operator to determine=
 when the trigger can be done.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Please see more comments inline.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Yours,&nbsp;<br>
Daniel&nbsp;</div>
<div id=3D"x_gmail-m_5353534145435562934x_gmail-m_-6627391055567166672appen=
donsend">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_gmail-m_5353534145435562934x_gmail-m_-6627391055567166672divRp=
lyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr">
<font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11p=
t"><b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com=
" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ietf=
.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;; BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">last-call@ietf.org<=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">last-call@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:d=
raft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-iet=
f-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fa=
ilover-11</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,
<div>many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all ar=
e much appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to you=
r comments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM&gt=
;&gt;. Attached are the new working version
 and the diff to -12.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatra=
cker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">noreply@ietf=
.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
Reviewer: Daniel Migault<br>
Review result: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Hi, <br>
<br>
<br>
I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate's ongoing effo=
rt to<br>
review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.&nbsp; These comments=
 were<br>
written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.&nbsp; Doc=
ument<br>
authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just l=
ike<br>
any other IETF Last Call comments.&nbsp; Please note also that my expertise=
 in BGP is<br>
limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.&nbsp; <b=
r>
<br>
Review Results: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Please find my comments below. <br>
<br>
Yours, <br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Multicast VP=
N Fast Upstream Failover<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-ietf-be=
ss-mvpn-fast-failover-11<br>
<br>
Abstract<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures =
that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstr=
eam PEs<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels=
) when<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extend=
ing BGP<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised tow=
ard a<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Standby Upstream PE.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN<br>
designates multicast VPN, it might be<br>
clarifying to specify the acronym in the<br>
first sentence. This would later make<br>
the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I've updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mVPN/M=
VPN/ throughout the document.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
1.&nbsp; Introduction<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable =
to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on<b=
r>
&nbsp; &nbsp;different types of failures.&nbsp; This document addresses fai=
lures of<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs conn=
ected<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;to VPN sites with receivers.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Well I am not familiar with neither BGP<br>
nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS<br>
and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am<br>
wondering if there is a distinction<br>
between the two and a preferred way to<br>
designate these VPNs.&nbsp; My understanding<br>
is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the<br>
VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone<br>
for the transport.&nbsp; Since the PE are<br>
connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4<br>
needs to be labeled. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I understand that this document often sends the reader to =
check RFC 6513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of provid=
ing a multicast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed&nbsp;on the MPLS d=
ata plane using the BGP control plane.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a =
PE<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status =
of<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a =
given<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;(C-S, C-G).&nbsp; This method does not provide a &quot;fast fa=
ilover&quot; solution<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I understand the limitation is due to<br>
BGP convergence. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provide=
s the service restoration functionality but the restoration time is signifi=
cant and affects the experience of a client.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
&nbsp; &nbsp;when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism<b=
r>
&nbsp; &nbsp;described in Section 4 for a &quot;fast failover&quot; solutio=
n.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up fail=
over by<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at re=
covery<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;time.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Moreover, section 5 describes a &quot;hot leaf standby&quot; m=
echanism, that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;uses a combination of these two mechanisms.&nbsp; This approac=
h has<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to impro=
ve<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given som=
e<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;topology and metric constraints.<br>
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.1.&nbsp; mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is=
 that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel att=
ribute,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;is reachable through unicast routing tables.&nbsp; In this cas=
e, the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachabi=
lity<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;condition changes.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, excep=
t that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but th=
e root<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root a=
ddress<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop addre=
ss in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in un=
icast<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be<=
br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific b=
enefit.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
It seems to me that x-PMSI address<br>
designates a different interface than<br>
the one used by the Tunnel itself. If<br>
that is correct, such mechanisms seems<br>
to assume that one equipment up on one<br>
interface will be up on the other<br>
interfaces. I have the impression that a<br>
configuration change in a PE may end up<br>
in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE<br>
still being reachable though the x-PMSI<br>
Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible<br>
scenario, the current mechanisms may not<br>
provide more efficient mechanism than<br>
then those of the standard BGP.<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, =
and in the Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some as=
sumptions&nbsp;about the state of the remote system based on a single event=
 or change of state. Usually, AFAIK, operators
 use not a physical interface but a loopback to associate with a tunnel. Wi=
th a fast IGP convergence, a loopback interface is reachable as long as the=
re's a path through the network between two nodes.</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Thanks for the clarification</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is<br>
either up or down and the determination<br>
of not being up if being down.&nbsp; I am not<br>
convinced that the two only states.<br>
Typically services under DDoS may be<br>
down for a small amount of time. While<br>
this affects the network, there is not<br>
always a clear cut between the PE being<br>
up or down. <br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt;&nbsp; In defect detection a system often has some hysteres=
is, i.e., time that the system has to wait to change its state. For example=
, BFD changes state from Up to Down after the system does not receive N con=
secutive packets (usually 3). As a result,
 in some cases, the system can be tuned to detect relatively short outages =
while in others be slower and miss short-lived outages.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.6.&nbsp; BFD Discriminator Attribute<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint=
 BFD<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with=
 an<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;x-PMSI A-D Route.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP<b=
r>
&nbsp; &nbsp;attribute called the &quot;BFD Discriminator&quot;.&nbsp; It i=
s an optional<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;transitive BGP attribute.&nbsp; In Section 7.2, IANA is reques=
ted to<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).&nbsp; The format of this =
attribute is<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;shown in Figure 1.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I feel that the sentence &quot;In Section ...<br>
TBA2).&quot; should be removed.<br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usu=
ally, this text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px; border:none; padding:0px">
<div>
<div>In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp;2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;3<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 =
4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; BFD Mode&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Reserved&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;BFD Discriminator&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Optional TLVs&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;~<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discr=
iminator Attribute<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Where:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; BFD Mode field is the one octet long.&nbsp; This speci=
fication defines<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUS=
T be zeroed<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; on transmission and ignored on receipt.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Morin, et al.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Expires April =
5, 2021&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[Page =
7]<br>
<br>
Internet-Draft&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;mVPN Fast Upstream Failover=
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; October 2020<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field th=
at MAY be<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future ext=
ensions.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.=
&nbsp; To allow<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as =
a variable-<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; length object.&nbsp; Figure 2 presents the Optional TL=
V format TLV that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; consists of:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *&nbsp; one octet-long field of TLV 's Type value (Sec=
tion 7.3)<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *&nbsp; one octet-long field of the length of the Valu=
e field in octets<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *&nbsp; variable length Value field.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.<b=
r>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I am wondering why the constraint on the<br>
length is not mentioned in the paragraph<br>
associated to the field - as opposed to<br>
a&nbsp; separate paragraph. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length=
 and length. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length =
of the Value field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV=
, including lengths of Type, Length and
 Value fields.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>you are correct that might have confused me.&nbsp;</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
[..]<br>
<br>
8.&nbsp; Security Considerations<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC=
6514]<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;and hence shares the security considerations respectively repr=
esented<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;in these specifications.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, i=
n turn,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;is based on [RFC5880].&nbsp; Security considerations relevant =
to each<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specificatio=
ns.&nbsp; An<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mec=
hanism<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be=
 active<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;at the same time.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
At a high level view - or at least my<br>
interpretation of it - the document<br>
proposes a mechanism based on BFD to<br>
detect fault in the path.&nbsp; Upon a fault<br>
detection a fail-over operation is<br>
instructed using BGP. This rocedure is<br>
expected to perform a faster fail-over<br>
than traditional BGP convergence on<br>
maintaining routing tables. Once the<br>
fail over has been performed, BFD is<br>
confirms the new path is &quot;legitimate&quot;<br>
and works.<br>
<br>
It seems correct to me that the current<br>
protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.<br>
That said, having BFD authentication<br>
based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that<br>
stronger primitives be recommended.<br>
While this does not concerns the current<br>
document, it seems to me that the<br>
information might be relayed to routing<br>
ADs. <br>
<br>
What remains unclear to me - and I<br>
assume this might be due to my lake or<br>
expertise in routing area - is the impact<br>
associated to performing a fail-over<br>
both on 1) the data plane and 2) the<br>
standard BGP way to establish routing<br>
tables. <br>
<br>
Regarding the data plane, I am wondering<br>
if fail-over results in a lost of<br>
packets for example - I suppose for<br>
example that at least the packets in the<br>
process of being forwarded might be<br>
lost. I believe that providing details<br>
on this may be good. <br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. W=
ith network failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the =
reaction to a network failure.&nbsp; If that is the case, then packet loss =
experienced by service due to the fail-over
 is the result of the network failure. Would you agree with that view? A sh=
orter failure detection interval&nbsp;and faster fail-over should minimize =
the packet loss and, as a result, the negative impact on the service itself=
.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definiti=
vely a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associate=
d to a fast-fail-over without any network failure.&nbsp; This would be usef=
ul for an operator to evaluate whether
 it should spend more time in diagnosing a network failure versus performin=
g a fast-fail-over.&nbsp;</div>
<div>Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator wou=
ld maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.&nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to c=
haracterize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it se=
ems to me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators.&=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
If there are any impacts I would like to<br>
understand also in which cases the<br>
decision to perform a failover operation<br>
may result in more harm than the event<br>
that has been over-interpreted. An<br>
hypothetical scenario could be that the<br>
non reception of a BFD packet is<br>
interpreted as a PE being down while it<br>
may not be correct and the PE might have<br>
been simply under stress. A &quot;too fast&quot; fail-over<br>
may over interpreted it and perform a<br>
fail-over. If such things could happen,<br>
an attacker could leverage a micro event<br>
to perform network operation that are<br>
not negligible. Another way to see that<br>
is that an attacker might not have<br>
direct access to the control plan, but<br>
could use the data plan to generate a<br>
stress and sort of control the fail<br>
over. It seems to me that some text<br>
might be welcome to prevent such cases<br>
to happen. This could be guidance for<br>
declaring a tunnel down for example. <br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval =
may produce a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus t=
riggering the fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue, so=
mething that an operator will consider
 when deploying the mechanism specified in this draft. Resulting from addre=
ssing RtgDir review the draft was updated to provide more guidance:</div>
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp;In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection=
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cau=
se<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.<br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is no=
t recommended these two mechanism co-exist.&nbsp;</div>
<div>How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the dr=
aft I agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relatio=
n to the impacts associated to a fail-over.&nbsp; In case the fast-failover=
 comes with no impact this becomes less
 of a problem for operator deploying it.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also appli=
es to the scenario you've presented.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it would be good to add some<br>
text regarding the interferences with<br>
the non-fast forwarding fail over when<br>
performed by the standard BGP.<br>
Typically, my impression is that the<br>
fast fail-over mechanism is a local<br>
decision versus the BGP convergence that<br>
is more global. As a result, even with<br>
more time this two mechanisms may come<br>
with different outcomes. One such<br>
example to illustrate my purpose could<br>
be the following. Note that this is only<br>
illustrative of my purpose, and I let<br>
you find and pick on ethat is more<br>
appropriated.&nbsp; &nbsp;I am thinking of a case<br>
where a standby PE is be shared among<br>
multiple PEs - supposing this situation<br>
could occur.&nbsp; Typically, if PE_1, PE_2<br>
are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case<br>
PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a<br>
to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to<br>
PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end<br>
up in such situation while a local<br>
decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to<br>
switch to PE_1. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deployin=
g protection based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referre=
d to as M:N protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network =
failure, e.g., BFD, require a protocol
 to coordinate the switchover. This specification applies to a more special=
 deployment scenario where one working PE is protected by one or more stand=
by PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if =
M:N scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the =
issue.&nbsp;</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
CC: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org" <draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 13:43:18 -0800
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmWrwHMk8f-oZaW52sjGZuJ9KHeNM-8EBpOrc5KRZZm9og@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
Cc: "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>,  "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
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Hi Daniel,
thank you for spotting it, fixed.
 I enjoyed our discussion and, again, thank you for the review and your
thoughtful comments.

Best regards,
Greg

On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 1:32 PM Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the response and explanation. I am fine with the text you
> proposed and I consider all my concerns being addressed.
>
> I am reading your text as implicitly suggesting the following lines of
> your response, which seems reasonable.
>
> """
>  it is difficult to make any assumptions on how the convergence in the
> control plane may impact the forwarding plane and what effect that will
> have on a multicast flow. I think that very much depends on the
> implementation and the HW capabilities of the platform used.
> """
>
> There  one additional nit s/sectionSection/Section/ which I think comes
> from the conversion.
>
> Thanks for all your clarifications!
>
> Yours,
> Daniel
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 12, 2020 3:14 PM
> *To:* Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
> *Cc:* secdir@ietf.org <secdir@ietf.org>; BESS <bess@ietf.org>;
> last-call@ietf.org <last-call@ietf.org>;
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org <
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Secdir last call review of
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
>
> Hi Daniel,
> thank you for the additional information. I understand your concerns and
> agree that it is helpful to provide implementors and operators with useful
> information about the potential impact the new functionality may
> demonstrate in the network and how to mitigate the risks. I believe it is
> important to recognize that this draft proposes mechanisms that expedite
> the failure detection in a P-tunnel from the perspective of a downstream
> PE. And the detection directly impacts the control plane, not the data
> plane. I believe that it is difficult to make any assumptions on how the
> convergence in the control plane may impact the forwarding plane and what
> effect that will have on a multicast flow. I think that very much depends
> on the implementation and the HW capabilities of the platform used. I've
> moved the new text from Section 3.1 into the Security Considerations
> section. Please let me know if you think that is a more appropriate place
> for that paragraph.
> Also, I've realized that the text I've proposed earlier that refers to 1:N
> and N:M protection might be the source of questions and arguments and would
> like to withdraw it. I hope you'll agree.
>
> I've attached the new diff reflecting the changes in the working version.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 9:02 AM Daniel Migault <
> daniel.migault@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> Thanks for the response Greg. This seems to go in the right direction, but
> I think it would be nice to detail a bit on the negative impact that may
> result from the fast-fail over.
>
> """
> unnecessary failover negatively impacting the multicast service
> """
>
> I apology to appear being maybe a bit picky, but, at least to me, the
> security consideration section is the place to point on specific impacts
> that an operator may not have thought of and the text appears to me a bit
> too vague on what can impact negatively the multicast service.
>
> Let me dig a bit on what I mean and probably what information I would have
> expected to find. Maybe that would have been useful I provided those
> earlier. Again, not being an expert in this area, please take my
> following recommendations with a pitch of salt.
>
> What I would like, for example, to understand is whether having a
> fast-failover between nodes that work properly results in a packet lost or
> not.
> I also envision that in some cases, this will result in packet re-ordering
> which might result in packet being rejected by the end node.
> In IPsec vpns, we have specific counters, keys that make fail-over
> relatively complex as a context has to be maintained between the old and
> the new node to pass anti replay protection and enable appropriated
> encryption/decryption. It would be good to clarify if any parameters need -
> or not - to be synchronized between the two nodes as its transfer
> represents a risk of disrupting the traffic, and thus may be mentioned.
> There probably other points I am missing due to my lack of expertise -
> especially those due to operational practices.
> I believe that any information that you could think of that would
> encourage you to double check/validate a network outage is present over
> performing the fast failover might be useful information.
> Similarly, it would be good to mention cases where an operator may choose
> not to deploy such mechanism.
>
> Yours,
> Daniel
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:47 AM
> *To:* Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
> *Cc:* secdir@ietf.org <secdir@ietf.org>; BESS <bess@ietf.org>;
> last-call@ietf.org <last-call@ietf.org>;
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org <
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Secdir last call review of
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
>
> Hi Daniel,
> thank you for your kind consideration of my notes. I've top-copied what
> appeared to me as the remaining open issues. I hope I've not missed any of
> your questions. Please find my notes in-line below tagged GIM>>. Attached
> are the updated working version and the new diff.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> <mglt>
> sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively
> a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to
> a fast-fail-over without any network failure.  This would be useful for an
> operator to evaluate whether it should spend more time in diagnosing a
> network failure versus performing a fast-fail-over.
> Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would
> maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.
>
> At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to
> characterize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it
> seems to me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the
> operators.
> </mglt>
> GIM>> I would like to add a new paragraph in Section 3.1:
> NEW TEXT:
>    All methods described in this section may produce false-negative
>    state changes that can be the trigger for an unnecessary failover
>    negatively impacting the multicast service provided by the VPN.  An
>    operator expected to consider the network environment and use
>    available controls of the mechanism used to determine the status of a
>    P-tunnel.
>
> Would the new text be helpful?
>
> <mglt>
> Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not
> recommended these two mechanism co-exist.
> How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft
> I agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to
> the impacts associated to a fail-over.  In case the fast-failover comes
> with no impact this becomes less of a problem for operator deploying it.
>
> </mglt>
> GIM>> I hope that the new text presented above addresses this concern.
>
> <mglt>
> I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N
> scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the
> issue.
> </mglt>
> GIM>> I propose adding the clarification of the use of the Sandby PE in
> Section 4:
> OLD TEXT:
>    The procedures described below are limited to the case where the site
>    that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to
>    simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described.
> NEW TEXT:
>    The procedures described below are limited to the case where the site
>    that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to
>    simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described.  Such
>    a redundancy protection scheme, referred to as 1:N protection, is the
>    special case of M:N protection, where M working instances are sharing
>    protection of the N standby instances.  In addition to a network
>    failure detection mechanism, the latter scheme requires using a
>    mechanism to coordinate the failover among working instances.  For
>    that reason, M:N protection is outside the scope of this
>    specification.
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:48 AM Daniel Migault <
> daniel.migault@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> Thanks for the response and clarifications. Most of my comments have been
> addressed/answered. However, it seems to me that some additional text might
> be added to the security consideration section document the impact on the
> network of a fast-failover operation. The knowledge of these impact might
> be useful for an operator to determine when the trigger can be done.
>
> Please see more comments inline.
>
> Yours,
> Daniel
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:13 PM
> *To:* Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
> *Cc:* secdir@ietf.org <secdir@ietf.org>; BESS <bess@ietf.org>;
> last-call@ietf.org <last-call@ietf.org>;
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org <
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Secdir last call review of
> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
>
> Hi Daniel,
> many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all are
> much appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to your
> comments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM>>.
> Attached are the new working version and the diff to -12.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatracker <
> noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Reviewer: Daniel Migault
> Review result: Has Nits
>
> Hi,
>
>
> I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate's ongoing
> effort to
> review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.  These comments were
> written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.  Document
> authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just
> like
> any other IETF Last Call comments.  Please note also that my expertise in
> BGP is
> limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.
>
> Review Results: Has Nits
>
> Please find my comments below.
>
> Yours,
> Daniel
>
>
>                   Multicast VPN Fast Upstream Failover
>                  draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-11
>
> Abstract
>
>    This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures that
>    allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstream PEs
>    to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels) when
>    selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extending BGP
>    MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised toward a
>    Standby Upstream PE.
>
> <mglt>
> Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN
> designates multicast VPN, it might be
> clarifying to specify the acronym in the
> first sentence. This would later make
> the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> I've updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mVPN/MVPN/
> throughout the document.
>
>
>
> 1.  Introduction
>
>    In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable to
>    provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on
>    different types of failures.  This document addresses failures of
>    elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs connected
>    to VPN sites with receivers.
>
> <mglt>
> Well I am not familiar with neither BGP
> nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS
> and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am
> wondering if there is a distinction
> between the two and a preferred way to
> designate these VPNs.  My understanding
> is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the
> VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone
> for the transport.  Since the PE are
> connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4
> needs to be labeled.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> I understand that this document often sends the reader to check RFC
> 6513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of providing a
> multicast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed on the MPLS data plane
> using the BGP control plane.
>
>
>    Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a PE
>    connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status of
>    P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a given
>    (C-S, C-G).  This method does not provide a "fast failover" solution
> <mglt>
> I understand the limitation is due to
> BGP convergence.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provides the
> service restoration functionality but the restoration time is significant
> and affects the experience of a client.
>
>    when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism
>    described in Section 4 for a "fast failover" solution.
>
>    Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up failover by
>    not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at recovery
>    time.
>
>    Moreover, section 5 describes a "hot leaf standby" mechanism, that
>    uses a combination of these two mechanisms.  This approach has
>    similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to improve
>    failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given some
>    topology and metric constraints.
>
>
> [...]
>
> 3.1.1.  mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking
>
>    A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is that
>    the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute,
>    is reachable through unicast routing tables.  In this case, the
>    downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachability
>    condition changes.
>
>    That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, except that
>    the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but the root
>    address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.
>
>    If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root address
>    of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop address in
>    the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in unicast
>    routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be
>    unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific benefit.
>
> <mglt>
> It seems to me that x-PMSI address
> designates a different interface than
> the one used by the Tunnel itself. If
> that is correct, such mechanisms seems
> to assume that one equipment up on one
> interface will be up on the other
> interfaces. I have the impression that a
> configuration change in a PE may end up
> in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE
> still being reachable though the x-PMSI
> Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible
> scenario, the current mechanisms may not
> provide more efficient mechanism than
> then those of the standard BGP.
>
> GIM>> That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, and in the
> Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some
> assumptions about the state of the remote system based on a single event or
> change of state. Usually, AFAIK, operators use not a physical interface but
> a loopback to associate with a tunnel. With a fast IGP convergence, a
> loopback interface is reachable as long as there's a path through the
> network between two nodes.
> <mglt>
> Thanks for the clarification
> </mglt>
>
>
> Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is
> either up or down and the determination
> of not being up if being down.  I am not
> convinced that the two only states.
> Typically services under DDoS may be
> down for a small amount of time. While
> this affects the network, there is not
> always a clear cut between the PE being
> up or down.
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>>  In defect detection a system often has some hysteresis, i.e., time
> that the system has to wait to change its state. For example, BFD changes
> state from Up to Down after the system does not receive N consecutive
> packets (usually 3). As a result, in some cases, the system can be tuned to
> detect relatively short outages while in others be slower and miss
> short-lived outages.
>
>
>
> [...]
>
> 3.1.6.  BFD Discriminator Attribute
>
>    P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint BFD
>    session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with an
>    x-PMSI A-D Route.
>
>    This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP
>    attribute called the "BFD Discriminator".  It is an optional
>    transitive BGP attribute.  In Section 7.2, IANA is requested to
>    allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).  The format of this attribute is
>    shown in Figure 1.
>
> <mglt>
> I feel that the sentence "In Section ...
> TBA2)." should be removed.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usually, this
> text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read
>
> In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.
>
>
>
>
>        0                   1                   2                   3
>        0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       |    BFD Mode   |                  Reserved                     |
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       |                       BFD Discriminator                       |
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       ~                         Optional TLVs                         ~
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
>             Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discriminator Attribute
>
>    Where:
>
>       BFD Mode field is the one octet long.  This specification defines
>       the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.
>
>       Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUST be zeroed
>       on transmission and ignored on receipt.
>
>       BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.
>
>
>
>
>
> Morin, et al.             Expires April 5, 2021                 [Page 7]
>
> Internet-Draft         mVPN Fast Upstream Failover          October 2020
>
>
>       Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field that MAY be
>       used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future extensions.
>       TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.  To allow
>       for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as a variable-
>       length object.  Figure 2 presents the Optional TLV format TLV that
>       consists of:
>
>       *  one octet-long field of TLV 's Type value (Section 7.3)
>
>       *  one octet-long field of the length of the Value field in octets
>
>       *  variable length Value field.
>
>       The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.
> <mglt>
> I am wondering why the constraint on the
> length is not mentioned in the paragraph
> associated to the field - as opposed to
> a  separate paragraph.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length and
> length. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length of
> the Value field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV,
> including lengths of Type, Length and Value fields.
>
> <mglt>
> you are correct that might have confused me.
> </mglt>
>
>
> [..]
>
> 8.  Security Considerations
>
>    This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC6514]
>    and hence shares the security considerations respectively represented
>    in these specifications.
>
>    This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, in turn,
>    is based on [RFC5880].  Security considerations relevant to each
>    protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specifications.  An
>    implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mechanism
>    to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be active
>    at the same time.
>
> <mglt>
> At a high level view - or at least my
> interpretation of it - the document
> proposes a mechanism based on BFD to
> detect fault in the path.  Upon a fault
> detection a fail-over operation is
> instructed using BGP. This rocedure is
> expected to perform a faster fail-over
> than traditional BGP convergence on
> maintaining routing tables. Once the
> fail over has been performed, BFD is
> confirms the new path is "legitimate"
> and works.
>
> It seems correct to me that the current
> protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.
> That said, having BFD authentication
> based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that
> stronger primitives be recommended.
> While this does not concerns the current
> document, it seems to me that the
> information might be relayed to routing
> ADs.
>
> What remains unclear to me - and I
> assume this might be due to my lake or
> expertise in routing area - is the impact
> associated to performing a fail-over
> both on 1) the data plane and 2) the
> standard BGP way to establish routing
> tables.
>
> Regarding the data plane, I am wondering
> if fail-over results in a lost of
> packets for example - I suppose for
> example that at least the packets in the
> process of being forwarded might be
> lost. I believe that providing details
> on this may be good.
>
> GIM>> You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. With
> network failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the
> reaction to a network failure.  If that is the case, then packet loss
> experienced by service due to the fail-over is the result of the network
> failure. Would you agree with that view? A shorter failure detection
> interval and faster fail-over should minimize the packet loss and, as a
> result, the negative impact on the service itself.
>
> <mglt>
> sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively
> a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to
> a fast-fail-over without any network failure.  This would be useful for an
> operator to evaluate whether it should spend more time in diagnosing a
> network failure versus performing a fast-fail-over.
> Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would
> maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.
>
> At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to
> characterize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it
> seems to me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the
> operators.
> </mglt>
>
> If there are any impacts I would like to
> understand also in which cases the
> decision to perform a failover operation
> may result in more harm than the event
> that has been over-interpreted. An
> hypothetical scenario could be that the
> non reception of a BFD packet is
> interpreted as a PE being down while it
> may not be correct and the PE might have
> been simply under stress. A "too fast" fail-over
> may over interpreted it and perform a
> fail-over. If such things could happen,
> an attacker could leverage a micro event
> to perform network operation that are
> not negligible. Another way to see that
> is that an attacker might not have
> direct access to the control plan, but
> could use the data plan to generate a
> stress and sort of control the fail
> over. It seems to me that some text
> might be welcome to prevent such cases
> to happen. This could be guidance for
> declaring a tunnel down for example.
>
> GIM>> I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval may
> produce a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus
> triggering the fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue,
> something that an operator will consider when deploying the mechanism
> specified in this draft. Resulting from addressing RtgDir review the draft
> was updated to provide more guidance:
>    In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection
>    methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cause
>    unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.
> <mglt>
> Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not
> recommended these two mechanism co-exist.
> How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft
> I agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to
> the impacts associated to a fail-over.  In case the fast-failover comes
> with no impact this becomes less of a problem for operator deploying it.
>
> </mglt>
> Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also applies
> to the scenario you've presented.
>
>
> Similarly, it would be good to add some
> text regarding the interferences with
> the non-fast forwarding fail over when
> performed by the standard BGP.
> Typically, my impression is that the
> fast fail-over mechanism is a local
> decision versus the BGP convergence that
> is more global. As a result, even with
> more time this two mechanisms may come
> with different outcomes. One such
> example to illustrate my purpose could
> be the following. Note that this is only
> illustrative of my purpose, and I let
> you find and pick on ethat is more
> appropriated.   I am thinking of a case
> where a standby PE is be shared among
> multiple PEs - supposing this situation
> could occur.  Typically, if PE_1, PE_2
> are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case
> PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a
> to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to
> PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end
> up in such situation while a local
> decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to
> switch to PE_1.
>
> </mglt>
>
> GIM>> Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deploying
> protection based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referred
> to as M:N protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network
> failure, e.g., BFD, require a protocol to coordinate the switchover. This
> specification applies to a more special deployment scenario where one
> working PE is protected by one or more standby PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.
>
> <mglt>
> I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N
> scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the
> issue.
> </mglt>
>
>

--00000000000078059905b3efcda5
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,<div>thank you for spotting it, fixed.</div><div=
>=C2=A0I enjoyed our discussion and, again, thank you for the review and yo=
ur thoughtful comments.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Gr=
eg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmai=
l_attr">On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 1:32 PM Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:daniel.migault@ericsson.com">daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks for the response and explanation. I am fine with the text you propos=
ed and I consider all my concerns being addressed.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I am reading your text as implicitly suggesting the following lines of your=
 response, which seems reasonable.=C2=A0 =C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
&quot;&quot;&quot;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(255,=
255,255);display:inline"><span>=C2=A0</span>it
 is difficult to make any assumptions on how the convergence in the control=
 plane may impact the forwarding plane and what effect that will have on a =
multicast flow. I think that very much depends on the implementation and th=
e HW capabilities of the platform
 used.</span><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(255,=
255,255);display:inline">&quot;&quot;&quot;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(255,=
255,255);display:inline"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(255,=
255,255);display:inline">There=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,3=
0);font-size:15px">=C2=A0one
 additional nit s/sectionSection/Section/ which I think comes from the conv=
ersion.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:15px"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:15px">Thanks for all your clar=
ifications!</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:15px"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:15px">Yours,=C2=A0<br>
Daniel</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_4315518724228570779appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_4315518724228570779divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=
=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From=
:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2020 3:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com=
" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ietf=
.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;; BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">last-call@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">last-call@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-=
mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fas=
t-failover.all@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast=
-failover.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failove=
r.all@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fa=
ilover-11</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,
<div>thank you for the additional information. I understand your concerns=
=C2=A0and agree that it is helpful to provide implementors and operators wi=
th useful information about the potential impact the new functionality may =
demonstrate in the network and how to mitigate
 the risks. I believe it is important to recognize that this draft proposes=
 mechanisms that expedite the failure detection in a P-tunnel from the pers=
pective of a downstream PE. And the detection directly impacts the control =
plane, not the data plane. I believe
 that it is difficult to make any assumptions on how the convergence in the=
 control plane may impact the forwarding plane and what effect that will ha=
ve on a multicast flow. I think that very much depends on the implementatio=
n and the HW capabilities of the
 platform used. I&#39;ve moved=C2=A0the new text from Section 3.1 into the =
Security Considerations section. Please let me know if you think that is a =
more appropriate place for that paragraph.</div>
<div>Also, I&#39;ve realized that the text I&#39;ve proposed earlier that r=
efers to 1:N and N:M protection might be the source of questions and argume=
nts and would like to withdraw it. I hope you&#39;ll agree.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I&#39;ve attached the new diff reflecting the changes in the working v=
ersion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 9:02 AM Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@er=
icsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Greg,=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks for the response Greg. This seems to go in the right direction, but =
I think it would be nice to detail a bit on the negative impact that may re=
sult from the fast-fail over.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
&quot;&quot;&quot;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">unnecessary failover=C2=A0</span><span =
style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-color:rgb=
(255,255,255);display:inline">negatively
 impacting the multicast service</span><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">&quot;&quot;&quot;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">I apology to appear being maybe a bit p=
icky, but, at least to me, the security consideration section is the place =
to point on specific impacts that
 an operator may not have thought of and the text appears to me a bit too v=
ague on what can impact negatively the multicast service.=C2=A0</span></div=
>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:15px;color:rgb(32,31,30);background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">Let me dig a bit on what I mean and pro=
bably what information I would have expected to find. Maybe that would have=
 been useful I provided those
 earlier.=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,A=
rial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Again, not being an expert in thi=
s area, please take my following recommendations with a pitch of salt.=C2=
=A0</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
What I would like, for example, to understand is whether having a fast-fail=
over between nodes that work properly results in a packet lost or not.=C2=
=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I also envision that in some cases, this will result in packet re-ordering =
which might result in packet being rejected by the end node.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
In IPsec vpns, we have specific counters, keys that make fail-over relative=
ly complex as a context has to be maintained between the old and the new no=
de to pass anti replay protection and enable appropriated encryption/decryp=
tion. It would be good to clarify
 if any parameters need - or not - to be synchronized between the two nodes=
 as its transfer represents a risk of disrupting the traffic, and thus may =
be mentioned.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
There probably other points I am missing due to my lack of expertise - espe=
cially those due to operational practices.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I believe that any information that you could think of that would encourage=
 you to double check/validate a network outage is present over performing t=
he fast failover might be useful information.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Similarly, it would be good to mention cases where an operator may choose n=
ot to deploy such mechanism.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Yours,=C2=A0<br>
Daniel</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_4315518724228570779x_gmail-m_5353534145435562934appendon=
send"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_4315518724228570779x_gmail-m_5353534145435562934divRplyF=
wdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000" sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregim=
irsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com=
" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ietf=
.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;; BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">last-call@ietf.org<=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">last-call@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:d=
raft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-iet=
f-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fa=
ilover-11</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,
<div>thank you for your kind consideration of my notes. I&#39;ve top-copied=
 what appeared to me as the remaining open issues. I hope I&#39;ve not=C2=
=A0missed=C2=A0any of your questions. Please find my notes in-line below ta=
gged GIM&gt;&gt;. Attached are the updated working version
 and the new diff.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definitively =
a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associated to =
a fast-fail-over without any network failure.=C2=A0 This would be useful fo=
r an operator to evaluate whether it
 should spend more time in diagnosing a network failure versus performing a=
 fast-fail-over.
<br>
Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator would ma=
ybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3. =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0<br>
<br>
At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to charac=
terize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it seems t=
o me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators. =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</div>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I would like to add a new paragraph in Section 3.1:</div>
<div>NEW TEXT:</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0All methods described in this section may produce false-n=
egative<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0state changes that can be the trigger for an unnecessary failo=
ver<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0negatively impacting the multicast service provided by the VPN=
.=C2=A0 An<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0operator expected to consider the network environment and use<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0available controls of the mechanism used to determine the stat=
us of a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0P-tunnel.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Would the new text be helpful?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is not rec=
ommended these two mechanism co-exist.
<br>
How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the draft I=
 agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relation to =
the impacts associated to a fail-over.=C2=A0 In case the fast-failover come=
s with no impact this becomes less of
 a problem for operator deploying it.<br>
=C2=A0<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</div>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I hope that the new text presented above addresses this co=
ncern.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if M:N s=
cenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the issue=
.
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</div>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I propose adding the clarification of the use of the Sandb=
y PE in Section 4:</div>
<div>OLD TEXT:</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The procedures described below are limited to the case wh=
ere the site<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described=
.<br>
</div>
<div>NEW TEXT:</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The procedures described below are limited to the case wh=
ere the site<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that contains C-S is connected to two or more PEs, though, to<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0simplify the description, the case of dual-homing is described=
.=C2=A0 Such<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a redundancy protection scheme, referred to as 1:N protection,=
 is the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0special case of M:N protection, where M working instances are =
sharing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0protection of the N standby instances.=C2=A0 In addition to a =
network<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0failure detection mechanism, the latter scheme requires using =
a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanism to coordinate the failover among working instances.=
=C2=A0 For<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that reason, M:N protection is outside the scope of this<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0specification.=C2=A0<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:48 AM Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@er=
icsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Greg,=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks for the response and clarifications. Most of my comments have been a=
ddressed/answered. However, it seems to me that some additional text might =
be added to the security consideration section document the impact on the n=
etwork of a fast-failover operation.
 The knowledge of these impact might be useful for an operator to determine=
 when the trigger can be done.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Please see more comments inline.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Yours,=C2=A0<br>
Daniel=C2=A0</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_4315518724228570779x_gmail-m_5353534145435562934x_gmail-=
m_-6627391055567166672appendonsend">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_4315518724228570779x_gmail-m_5353534145435562934x_gmail-=
m_-6627391055567166672divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr">
<font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11p=
t"><b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Migault &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com=
" target=3D"_blank">daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ietf=
.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:secdir@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">secdir@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;; BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">last-call@ietf.org<=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">last-call@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:d=
raft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-iet=
f-bess-mvpn-fast-failover.all@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fa=
ilover-11</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Daniel,
<div>many thanks for the review, thoughtful comments, and questions, all ar=
e much appreciated. Also, my apologies for the long delay to respond to you=
r comments. Please find my answers and notes in-line below tagged by GIM&gt=
;&gt;. Attached are the new working version
 and the diff to -12.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:36 AM Daniel Migault via Datatra=
cker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">noreply@ietf=
.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Reviewer: Daniel Migault<br>
Review result: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Hi, <br>
<br>
<br>
I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate&#39;s ongoing =
effort to<br>
review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.=C2=A0 These comments=
 were<br>
written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors.=C2=A0 Doc=
ument<br>
authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just l=
ike<br>
any other IETF Last Call comments.=C2=A0 Please note also that my expertise=
 in BGP is<br>
limited, so feel free to take these comments with a pitch of salt.=C2=A0 <b=
r>
<br>
Review Results: Has Nits<br>
<br>
Please find my comments below. <br>
<br>
Yours, <br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Multicast VP=
N Fast Upstream Failover<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-be=
ss-mvpn-fast-failover-11<br>
<br>
Abstract<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures =
that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allow fast failover for upstream failures, by allowing downstr=
eam PEs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to take into account the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels=
) when<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0selecting the Upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow, and extend=
ing BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MVPN routing so that a C-multicast route can be advertised tow=
ard a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Standby Upstream PE.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Though it might be just a nit, if MVPN<br>
designates multicast VPN, it might be<br>
clarifying to specify the acronym in the<br>
first sentence. This would later make<br>
the correlation with BGP MVPN clearer. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I&#39;ve updated s/BGP MVPN/BGP multicast VPN/. Also, s/mV=
PN/MVPN/ throughout the document.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
1.=C2=A0 Introduction<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In the context of multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs, it is desirable =
to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0provide mechanisms allowing fast recovery of connectivity on<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0different types of failures.=C2=A0 This document addresses fai=
lures of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0elements in the provider network that are upstream of PEs conn=
ected<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to VPN sites with receivers.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
Well I am not familiar with neither BGP<br>
nor MPLS. It seems that BGP/MLPS IP VPNS<br>
and MPLS/BGP IP VPNs are both used. I am<br>
wondering if there is a distinction<br>
between the two and a preferred way to<br>
designate these VPNs.=C2=A0 My understanding<br>
is that the VPN-IPv4 characterizes the<br>
VPN while MPLS is used by the backbone<br>
for the transport.=C2=A0 Since the PE are<br>
connected to the backbone the VPN-IPv4<br>
needs to be labeled. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I understand that this document often sends the reader to =
check RFC 6513 and/or RFC 6514. BGP/MPLS MVPN identifies the case of provid=
ing a multicast service over an IP VPN that is overlayed=C2=A0on the MPLS d=
ata plane using the BGP control plane.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 3 describes local procedures allowing an egress PE (a =
PE<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0connected to a receiver site) to take into account the status =
of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0P-tunnels to determine the Upstream Multicast Hop (UMH) for a =
given<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(C-S, C-G).=C2=A0 This method does not provide a &quot;fast fa=
ilover&quot; solution<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I understand the limitation is due to<br>
BGP convergence. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; Yes, a dynamic routing protocol, BGP in this case, provide=
s the service restoration functionality but the restoration time is signifi=
cant and affects the experience of a client.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0when used alone, but can be used together with the mechanism<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0described in Section 4 for a &quot;fast failover&quot; solutio=
n.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 4 describes protocol extensions that can speed up fail=
over by<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not requiring any multicast VPN routing message exchange at re=
covery<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0time.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Moreover, section 5 describes a &quot;hot leaf standby&quot; m=
echanism, that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0uses a combination of these two mechanisms.=C2=A0 This approac=
h has<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0similarities with the solution described in [RFC7431] to impro=
ve<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0failover times when PIM routing is used in a network given som=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0topology and metric constraints.<br>
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.1.=C2=A0 mVPN Tunnel Root Tracking<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A condition to consider that the status of a P-tunnel is up is=
 that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the root of the tunnel, as determined in the x-PMSI Tunnel att=
ribute,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is reachable through unicast routing tables.=C2=A0 In this cas=
e, the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0downstream PE can immediately update its UMH when the reachabi=
lity<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0condition changes.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0That is similar to BGP next-hop tracking for VPN routes, excep=
t that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the address considered is not the BGP next-hop address, but th=
e root<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0address in the x-PMSI Tunnel attribute.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0If BGP next-hop tracking is done for VPN routes and the root a=
ddress<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of a given tunnel happens to be the same as the next-hop addre=
ss in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the BGP A-D Route advertising the tunnel, then checking, in un=
icast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0routing tables, whether the tunnel root is reachable, will be<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0unnecessary duplication and thus will not bring any specific b=
enefit.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
It seems to me that x-PMSI address<br>
designates a different interface than<br>
the one used by the Tunnel itself. If<br>
that is correct, such mechanisms seems<br>
to assume that one equipment up on one<br>
interface will be up on the other<br>
interfaces. I have the impression that a<br>
configuration change in a PE may end up<br>
in the P-tunnel being down, while the PE<br>
still being reachable though the x-PMSI<br>
Tunnel attribute. If that is a possible<br>
scenario, the current mechanisms may not<br>
provide more efficient mechanism than<br>
then those of the standard BGP.<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; That is a very interesting angle, thank you. Yes, in OAM, =
and in the Fault Management (FM) OAM in particular, we have to make some as=
sumptions=C2=A0about the state of the remote system based on a single event=
 or change of state. Usually, AFAIK, operators
 use not a physical interface but a loopback to associate with a tunnel. Wi=
th a fast IGP convergence, a loopback interface is reachable as long as the=
re&#39;s a path through the network between two nodes.</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Thanks for the clarification</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it is assumed the tunnel is<br>
either up or down and the determination<br>
of not being up if being down.=C2=A0 I am not<br>
convinced that the two only states.<br>
Typically services under DDoS may be<br>
down for a small amount of time. While<br>
this affects the network, there is not<br>
always a clear cut between the PE being<br>
up or down. <br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 In defect detection a system often has some hysteres=
is, i.e., time that the system has to wait to change its state. For example=
, BFD changes state from Up to Down after the system does not receive N con=
secutive packets (usually 3). As a result,
 in some cases, the system can be tuned to detect relatively short outages =
while in others be slower and miss short-lived outages.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
3.1.6.=C2=A0 BFD Discriminator Attribute<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0P-tunnel status may be derived from the status of a multipoint=
 BFD<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0session [RFC8562] whose discriminator is advertised along with=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0x-PMSI A-D Route.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines the format and ways of using a new BGP<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attribute called the &quot;BFD Discriminator&quot;.=C2=A0 It i=
s an optional<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0transitive BGP attribute.=C2=A0 In Section 7.2, IANA is reques=
ted to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allocate the codepoint value (TBA2).=C2=A0 The format of this =
attribute is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0shown in Figure 1.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I feel that the sentence &quot;In Section ...<br>
TBA2).&quot; should be removed.<br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; We use this to mark where to note the allocated value. Usu=
ally, this text is replaced by the RFC Editor to read=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<div>In Section 7.2 IANA allocated codepoint XXX.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A03<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 =
4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Mode=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reserved=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0BFD Discriminator=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ~=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Optional TLVs=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0~<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Figure 1: Format of the BFD Discr=
iminator Attribute<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Where:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Mode field is the one octet long.=C2=A0 This speci=
fication defines<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the P2MP BFD Session as value 1 Section 7.2.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reserved field is three octets long, and the value MUS=
T be zeroed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on transmission and ignored on receipt.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Discriminator field is four octets long.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Morin, et al.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Expires April =
5, 2021=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[Page =
7]<br>
<br>
Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mVPN Fast Upstream Failover=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 October 2020<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Optional TLVs is the optional variable-length field th=
at MAY be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 used in the BFD Discriminator attribute for future ext=
ensions.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TLVs MAY be included in a sequential or nested manner.=
=C2=A0 To allow<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 for TLV nesting, it is advised to define a new TLV as =
a variable-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 length object.=C2=A0 Figure 2 presents the Optional TL=
V format TLV that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 consists of:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 one octet-long field of TLV &#39;s Type value =
(Section 7.3)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 one octet-long field of the length of the Valu=
e field in octets<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 variable length Value field.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The length of a TLV MUST be multiple of four octets.<b=
r>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
I am wondering why the constraint on the<br>
length is not mentioned in the paragraph<br>
associated to the field - as opposed to<br>
a=C2=A0 separate paragraph. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; There might be a slight confusion due to the use of Length=
 and length. Capitalized - the name of the field which value is the length =
of the Value field. The last sentence refers to the overall length of a TLV=
, including lengths of Type, Length and
 Value fields.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>you are correct that might have confused me.=C2=A0</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
[..]<br>
<br>
8.=C2=A0 Security Considerations<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes procedures based on [RFC6513] and [RFC=
6514]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and hence shares the security considerations respectively repr=
esented<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in these specifications.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document uses p2mp BFD, as defined in [RFC8562], which, i=
n turn,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is based on [RFC5880].=C2=A0 Security considerations relevant =
to each<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0protocol are discussed in the respective protocol specificatio=
ns.=C2=A0 An<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation that supports this specification MUST use a mec=
hanism<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to control the maximum number of p2mp BFD sessions that can be=
 active<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0at the same time.<br>
<br>
&lt;mglt&gt;<br>
At a high level view - or at least my<br>
interpretation of it - the document<br>
proposes a mechanism based on BFD to<br>
detect fault in the path.=C2=A0 Upon a fault<br>
detection a fail-over operation is<br>
instructed using BGP. This rocedure is<br>
expected to perform a faster fail-over<br>
than traditional BGP convergence on<br>
maintaining routing tables. Once the<br>
fail over has been performed, BFD is<br>
confirms the new path is &quot;legitimate&quot;<br>
and works.<br>
<br>
It seems correct to me that the current<br>
protocol relies on BGP / BFD security.<br>
That said, having BFD authentication<br>
based on MD5 or SHA1 may suggest that<br>
stronger primitives be recommended.<br>
While this does not concerns the current<br>
document, it seems to me that the<br>
information might be relayed to routing<br>
ADs. <br>
<br>
What remains unclear to me - and I<br>
assume this might be due to my lake or<br>
expertise in routing area - is the impact<br>
associated to performing a fail-over<br>
both on 1) the data plane and 2) the<br>
standard BGP way to establish routing<br>
tables. <br>
<br>
Regarding the data plane, I am wondering<br>
if fail-over results in a lost of<br>
packets for example - I suppose for<br>
example that at least the packets in the<br>
process of being forwarded might be<br>
lost. I believe that providing details<br>
on this may be good. <br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; You bring up a very topic for the discussion, thank you. W=
ith network failure detection in place, the fail-over can be viewed as the =
reaction to a network failure.=C2=A0 If that is the case, then packet loss =
experienced by service due to the fail-over
 is the result of the network failure. Would you agree with that view? A sh=
orter failure detection interval=C2=A0and faster fail-over should minimize =
the packet loss and, as a result, the negative impact on the service itself=
.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>sure. If you know the network is down, then fast fail-over is definiti=
vely a plus. What I think could be useful is to evaluate the cost associate=
d to a fast-fail-over without any network failure.=C2=A0 This would be usef=
ul for an operator to evaluate whether
 it should spend more time in diagnosing a network failure versus performin=
g a fast-fail-over.=C2=A0</div>
<div>Typically, if a fast failover comes a no cost at all, one operator wou=
ld maybe use one exchange to test the liveness of a node rather than 3.=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At that point, it seems to me that additional text coudl be added to c=
haracterize the impact. These could be high level and indicative, but it se=
ems to me that knowing these impacts presents some value to the operators.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
If there are any impacts I would like to<br>
understand also in which cases the<br>
decision to perform a failover operation<br>
may result in more harm than the event<br>
that has been over-interpreted. An<br>
hypothetical scenario could be that the<br>
non reception of a BFD packet is<br>
interpreted as a PE being down while it<br>
may not be correct and the PE might have<br>
been simply under stress. A &quot;too fast&quot; fail-over<br>
may over interpreted it and perform a<br>
fail-over. If such things could happen,<br>
an attacker could leverage a micro event<br>
to perform network operation that are<br>
not negligible. Another way to see that<br>
is that an attacker might not have<br>
direct access to the control plan, but<br>
could use the data plan to generate a<br>
stress and sort of control the fail<br>
over. It seems to me that some text<br>
might be welcome to prevent such cases<br>
to happen. This could be guidance for<br>
declaring a tunnel down for example. <br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I agree with your scenario. Over-short detection interval =
may produce a false-negative transition to the Down state in BFD and thus t=
riggering the fail-over. I think that that is more an operational issue, so=
mething that an operator will consider
 when deploying the mechanism specified in this draft. Resulting from addre=
ssing RtgDir review the draft was updated to provide more guidance:</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0In many cases, it is not practical to use both protection=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0methods at the same time because uncorrelated timers might cau=
se<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0unnecessary switchovers and destabilize the network.<br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Thanks for the feed back, It seems to me important to mention it is no=
t recommended these two mechanism co-exist.=C2=A0</div>
<div>How to avoid false negative transition might be out of scope of the dr=
aft I agree, but it seems to me worth being mentioned especially in relatio=
n to the impacts associated to a fail-over.=C2=A0 In case the fast-failover=
 comes with no impact this becomes less
 of a problem for operator deploying it.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
<div>Though the text above might not be general, I think that it also appli=
es to the scenario you&#39;ve presented.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Similarly, it would be good to add some<br>
text regarding the interferences with<br>
the non-fast forwarding fail over when<br>
performed by the standard BGP.<br>
Typically, my impression is that the<br>
fast fail-over mechanism is a local<br>
decision versus the BGP convergence that<br>
is more global. As a result, even with<br>
more time this two mechanisms may come<br>
with different outcomes. One such<br>
example to illustrate my purpose could<br>
be the following. Note that this is only<br>
illustrative of my purpose, and I let<br>
you find and pick on ethat is more<br>
appropriated.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I am thinking of a case<br>
where a standby PE is be shared among<br>
multiple PEs - supposing this situation<br>
could occur.=C2=A0 Typically, if PE_1, PE_2<br>
are shared by PE_a, ..., PE_z. In case<br>
PE_a and PE_b are down, we expect PE_a<br>
to switch to PE_1 and PE_b to switch to<br>
PE_2. It seems to me that BGP would end<br>
up in such situation while a local<br>
decision may end up in PE_a and PE_a to<br>
switch to PE_1. <br>
<br>
&lt;/mglt&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for the scenario that is very common in deployin=
g protection based on the shared redundant resources. Such schemes, referre=
d to as M:N protection, in addition to using mechanism detecting a network =
failure, e.g., BFD, require a protocol
 to coordinate the switchover. This specification applies to a more special=
 deployment scenario where one working PE is protected by one or more stand=
by PEs, i.e., 1:N protection.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&lt;mglt&gt;</div>
<div>I understand the document is addressing a 1:N scenario. That said, if =
M:N scenario leverage from 1:N protection it seems to me worth raising the =
issue.=C2=A0</div>
<div>&lt;/mglt&gt;</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

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From: Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 18:13:19 -0800
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To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>
Cc: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] New Extended Community for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb
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Hi Jeff,

Many thanks for the confirmation and detailed explanation / review. We will
move forward with the new code point for EVPN.

With respect to your comment in the last paragraph, your understanding is
correct - primary use case for this attribute is for it to be carried in
Type 1 route within and across EVPN domains. It would not be stripped at
the domain border. Will update the text to make sure this is clear.

Thanks,
Neeraj

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 12:09 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net> wrote:

> Neeraj,
>
> Thanks for reminding me to comment on the draft's Link Bandwidth
> procedures.
>
> The existing link bandwidth feature, defined in an expired Internet-Draft=
,
> is a non-transitive extended community.
>
> Part of the comments I'd given at prior BESS sessions at the microphone
> was that Juniper has used a similar code point with the transitive
> behavior.  This does create an interoperability problem between the
> published non-transitive and Juniper's transitive extended community.
>
> Part of that discussion was with regards to whether this was motivation
> for Juniper to help clean up that situation.  I believe that based on the
> text in your current draft that making using of the transitive code point
> used by Juniper is likely not a good fit for your EVPN use case.  Based o=
n
> that, I believe the request in the Internet-Draft for a new transitive co=
de
> point is appropriate and I have no objections or further concerns.
>
> By using split code points for general purpose BGP link bandwidth and EVP=
N
> link bandwidth, we accommodate not only load balancing at the EVPN level,
> but help avoid confusion when EVPN routes' nexthops may recursively resol=
ve
> in some situations across other BGP transport routes that may have their
> own link bandwidth available.  Exactly how that interaction in recursive
> resolution is implemented will likely be somewhat vendor dependent as it
> currently is for existing BGP use cases of link-bandwidth.
>
> Section 4.2 notes that the signaling may be used in an inter-as
> situation.  If my reading of the draft is correct, then the expected use
> case is primarily to add the new EVPN link bandwidth route on Type 1
> routes.  If so, containing the scoping of the distribution of those route=
s
> is mostly limited to a set of EVPN domains that interact with each other.
> You may wish to consider whether guidance for stripping this new Extended
> Community at such domain borders is necessary or not.
>
> Thanks for addressing my concerns.
>
> -- Jeff
>
>
> On Oct 14, 2020, at 2:24 PM, Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Hi John, Jeff,
>
> FYI - latest revision of this draft corrects the BW attribute to be
> transitive inline with Ali's explanation below:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-07.txt
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-b=
ess-evpn-unequal-lb-07.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WpGNLTp80vY1SOBO7xUowqXjTj64Jwdl=
9QBfcynQ1zzzTYjC43p-e0M7uc4hpSk$>.
> Please do let us know if there are any further concerns.
>
> 4.2.  EVPN Link Bandwidth Extended Community
>
>
>
>    A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined to signal
>
>    local ES link bandwidth to remote PEs.  This extended-community is
>
>    defined of type 0x06 (EVPN).  IANA is requested to assign a sub-type
>
>    value of 0x10 for the EVPN Link bandwidth extended community, of type
>
>    0x06 (EVPN).  EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined as
>
>    transitive.
>
>
>
>    Link bandwidth extended community described in [BGP-LINK-BW] for
>
>    layer 3 VPNs was considered for re-use here.  This Link bandwidth
>
>    extended community is however defined in [BGP-LINK-BW] as optional
>
>    non-transitive.  Since it is not possible to change deployed behavior
>
>    of extended-community defined in [BGP-LINK-BW], it was decided to
>
>    define a new one.  In inter-AS scenarios, link-bandwidth needs to be
>
>    signaled to eBGP neighbors.  When signaled across AS boundary, this
>
>    attribute can be used to achieve optimal load-balancing towards
>
>    source PEs from a different AS.  This is applicable both when next-
>
>    hop is changed or unchanged across AS boundaries.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neeraj
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:14 PM Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
>> John, Jeff:
>>
>>
>>
>> During the presentation of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb -03 at the
>> BESS WG meeting, you had a question/concern regarding why we are definin=
g a
>> new EC if we are doing conditional transitive. First, I=E2=80=99d like t=
o make a
>> correction to the preso by saying that the transitivity is not condition=
al
>> and we will correct this in the next rev of the draft. So, the EC is sim=
ply
>> transitive at all time. Given the EC defined in
>> draft-ietf-idr-link-bandwidth-07.txt is non-transitive, we cannot use th=
is
>> EC for our application. That=E2=80=99s why we are defining a new one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Ali
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BESS mailing list
>> BESS@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess_=
_;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WpGNLTp80vY1SOBO7xUowqXjTj64Jwdl9QBfcynQ1zzzTYjC43p-e0M78it=
EAgE$>
>>
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>Hi Jeff,</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Many thanks for the confirmation and detailed explanation / review. We wi=
ll move forward with the new code point for EVPN.</div><div><br></div></div=
>With respect to your comment in the last paragraph, your understanding is =
correct - primary use case for this attribute is for it to be carried in Ty=
pe 1 route within and across=C2=A0EVPN domains. It would not be stripped at=
 the domain border. Will update the text to make sure this is clear.<div><b=
r></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Neeraj<br><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 12:09 PM Je=
ffrey Haas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@juniper.net">jhaas@juniper.net</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color=
:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Neeraj,<di=
v><br></div><div>Thanks for reminding me to comment on the draft&#39;s Link=
 Bandwidth procedures.</div><div><br></div><div>The existing link bandwidth=
 feature, defined in an expired Internet-Draft, is a non-transitive extende=
d community.</div><div><br></div><div>Part of the comments I&#39;d given at=
 prior BESS sessions at the microphone was that Juniper has used a similar =
code point with the transitive behavior.=C2=A0 This does create an interope=
rability problem between the published non-transitive and Juniper&#39;s tra=
nsitive extended community.</div><div><br></div><div>Part of that discussio=
n was with regards to whether this was motivation for Juniper to help clean=
 up that situation.=C2=A0 I believe that based on the text in your current =
draft that making using of the transitive code point used by Juniper is lik=
ely not a good fit for your EVPN use case.=C2=A0 Based on that, I believe t=
he request in the Internet-Draft for a new transitive code point is appropr=
iate and I have no objections or further concerns.=C2=A0</div><div><br></di=
v><div>By using split code points for general purpose BGP link bandwidth an=
d EVPN link bandwidth, we accommodate not only load balancing at the EVPN l=
evel, but help avoid confusion when EVPN routes&#39; nexthops may recursive=
ly resolve in some situations across other BGP transport routes that may ha=
ve their own link bandwidth available.=C2=A0 Exactly how that interaction i=
n recursive resolution is implemented will likely be somewhat vendor depend=
ent as it currently is for existing BGP use cases of link-bandwidth.</div><=
div><br></div><div>Section 4.2 notes that the signaling may be used in an i=
nter-as situation.=C2=A0 If my reading of the draft is correct, then the ex=
pected use case is primarily to add the new EVPN link bandwidth route on Ty=
pe 1 routes.=C2=A0 If so, containing the scoping of the distribution of tho=
se routes is mostly limited to a set of EVPN domains that interact with eac=
h other.=C2=A0 You may wish to consider whether guidance for stripping this=
 new Extended Community at such domain borders is necessary or not.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Thanks for addressing my concerns.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>-- Jeff</div><div><br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Oct 14,=
 2020, at 2:24 PM, Neeraj Malhotra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:neeraj.ietf@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">neeraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><div><div>=
<div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv>Hi John, Jeff,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>FYI - latest revision of this draft corrects the BW attribute to be tr=
ansitive inline with Ali&#39;s explanation below:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://u=
rldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-une=
qual-lb-07.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WpGNLTp80vY1SOBO7xUowqXjTj64Jwdl9QBfcynQ1zzz=
TYjC43p-e0M7uc4hpSk$" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/dra=
ft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-07.txt</a>.
 Please do let us know if there are any further concerns.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">4.2.=C2=A0 EVPN Link Bandwidth Extended Community<span></spa=
n></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><span>=C2=A0</span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is=
 defined to signal<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 local ES link bandwidth to remote PEs.=C2=A0 Th=
is extended-community is<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 defined of type 0x06 (EVPN).=C2=A0 IANA is requ=
ested to assign a sub-type<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 value of 0x10 for the EVPN Link bandwidth exten=
ded community, of type<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 0x06 (EVPN).=C2=A0 EVPN Link Bandwidth extended=
 community is defined as<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 transitive.<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><span>=C2=A0</span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Link bandwidth extended community described in =
[BGP-LINK-BW] for<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 layer 3 VPNs was considered for re-use here.=C2=
=A0 This Link bandwidth<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 extended community is however defined in [BGP-L=
INK-BW] as optional<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 non-transitive.=C2=A0 Since it is not possible =
to change deployed behavior<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 of extended-community defined in [BGP-LINK-BW],=
 it was decided to<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 define a new one.=C2=A0 In inter-AS scenarios, =
link-bandwidth needs to be<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 signaled to eBGP neighbors.=C2=A0 When signaled=
 across AS boundary, this<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 attribute can be used to achieve optimal load-b=
alancing towards<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 source PEs from a different AS.=C2=A0 This is a=
pplicable both when next-<span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 hop is changed or unchanged across AS boundarie=
s.</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><br></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><br></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><span style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standard;font-size:12px;w=
hite-space:normal">Thanks,</span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><span style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standard;font-size:12px;w=
hite-space:normal">Neeraj</span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:14 PM Ali =
Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;sajassi=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">John, Jeff:<u></=
u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><=
u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt">During the presentation of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb -03 at =
the BESS WG meeting, you had a question/concern regarding why we are defini=
ng a new EC if we are doing conditional transitive. First, I=E2=80=99d like
 to make a correction to the preso by saying that the transitivity is not c=
onditional and we will correct this in the next rev of the draft. So, the E=
C is simply transitive at all time. Given the EC defined in draft-ietf-idr-=
link-bandwidth-07.txt is non-transitive,
 we cannot use this EC for our application. That=E2=80=99s why we are defin=
ing a new one.
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11=
pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11pt">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11pt">Ali<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/bess__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WpGNLTp80vY1SOBO7xUowqXjTj64Jwdl9QBfcynQ1zzzTYjC43p-=
e0M78itEAgE$" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mai=
lman/listinfo/bess</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></d=
iv>

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Subject: Re: [bess] [Bier] PCE Controller & SDN Controller & Netconf/Yang NMS Controller - lines blurred and can the names be used ubiquitously meaning the same
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Hi Gyan,

=20

Sorry, I missed this (got caught on a filter cos it was a bit spammed to =
a lot of lists :-).

=20

> I have noticed that after reviewing many drafts across many WGs it =
seems in the

> industry that the lines seem to be blurred between a PCE controller, =
ODL or

> Openflow SDN Controller and a Netconf/Yang NMS Controller ZTP & Day X

> provisioning.

=20

Yes, blurriness our speciality.

=20

You my find RFC 7491 useful in this respect, although it is a little =
dated. And, of course, RFC 8283 is a good starting point.

=20

> As this is a software sitting on a server you can have a swiss army =
knife server that

> does everything from PCE path computation to  Netconf/Yang ZTP & Day N =


> provisioning as well as any SDN Controller ODL or Openflow controller =
type

> functions as well.

=20

Yes, and this is one of the risks of PCE as a shiny thing: that it be =
converted from a useful toolkit into some form of god-box. I =
pontificated on this way back in 2014 at =
http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnwards.pdf

=20

> How this comes into play and realization of the lines being blurred is =
the use of

> BGP-LS in building the IGP topological graph of the network which was =
designed

> for PCEP and PCE & PCC active & passive off line path computation for =
both

> RSVP-TE or SR-TE path instantiation. =20

=20

In some senses, BGP-LS didn=E2=80=99t add anything because a PCE could =
have snooped on the IGP. But BGP-LS provides an export mechanism and =
importantly adds to that some policy filters to determine what is =
exported thus giving the network some control over what is exported.

=20

FWIW, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-ls/ =
proposes using PCEP for the same function. The argument in favor is that =
a PCE has to implement PCEP anyway, so why not include the LS export as =
well. The argument against is that BGP-LS has wider applicability and =
that it will typically be exported from an ASBR which already supports =
BGP.

=20

> However now BGP-LS can also be used for other functions now such as =
usage as

> I am a Shepherd reviewing a draft for BGP-LS usage for BIER to use =
BGP-LS to

> gather the elements internals within BIER using the same BGP-LS data =
structures

> to populate with BIER specific information to graph the BIER topology. =
 So here

> we are not doing any path computations as we are using in this use =
case  for

> NMS type function to gather data for ZTP & Day N provisioning.

>=20

> Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and =
being able

> to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN RT & resource =
information

> and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gathering & ZTP like =
controller style

> provisioning.=20

=20

Is there a fundamental difference between ZTP & Day N provisioning and =
path computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all =
determining how to configure the network to best carry traffic.

=20

> It does seem as though BGP-LS as its a means of "data gathering" "dump =
truck"

> of anything with the kitchen sink included to build any type of =
topological graph

> of literally anything under the sun.

=20

Remembering Yakov Rekhter saying you could use BGP to transport =
Shakespeare.=20

This is a tension with any protocol BGP-LS, PCEP, etc., etc. Stuff gets =
added, further use gets made.

=20

BGP-LS was intended to export routing information =
=E2=80=9Cnorthbound=E2=80=9D from the network.

=20

> I see that is a nice to leverage but it does in fact blur the lines of =
NMS Netconf/Yang

> Controller based functionality and  PCE path computation functionality =
and SDN

> controller based ZTP functionality into a single ubiquitous server =
that can do all of

> the above and use BGP-LS to accomplish the "kitchen sink" tasks.  It =
does however

> transform BGP to be an NMS tool but a "tool" and not just the original =
function

> which it was intended NLRI network reachability.

=20

Not sure that BGP-LS is BGP. But I agree that BGP-LS is =E2=80=9Can NMS =
tool=E2=80=9D.

I might argue that BGP distributing policies from installation on PEs is =
an NMS protocol.

=20

> Am I off base and please let me know as its BGP-LS is being way over =
leveraged.=20

> There are pros & cons to everything but I thought I would bring up to =
the WG as

> an important discussion point.

=20

Who are we to argue with real implementations? Assuming that there is a =
push for implementation and deployment, then the thing to look for is =
=E2=80=9Charm=E2=80=9D. Does this use of BGP-LS cause harm, sow =
confusion, risk destabilising the network? Should it use a different =
code point to be distinguishable?

=20

I think the argument that =E2=80=9Cthere is already another protocol for =
doing this=E2=80=9D is worth examining. But we have to be careful that =
it doesn=E2=80=99t get us stuck, or force everyone to do something they =
don=E2=80=99t want to do. After all, we could carry any protocol message =
using Netconf/YANG, but we don=E2=80=99t do =E2=80=9CRSVP-TE over =
Netconf=E2=80=9D.

=20

Best,

Adrian

=20


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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Gyan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Sorry, I =
missed this (got caught on a filter cos it was a bit spammed to a lot of =
lists :-).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; I have noticed that after reviewing many =
drafts across many WGs it seems in the<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; industry that the lines seem to be blurred =
between a PCE controller, ODL or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; =
Openflow SDN Controller and a Netconf/Yang NMS Controller ZTP &amp; Day =
X<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; provisioning.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes, =
blurriness our speciality.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>You my find =
RFC 7491 useful in this respect, although it is a little dated. And, of =
course, RFC 8283 is a good starting point.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; As this is a software sitting on a server you can =
have a swiss army knife server that<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; does everything from PCE path computation =
to&nbsp; Netconf/Yang ZTP &amp; Day N <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; provisioning as well as any SDN Controller ODL or =
Openflow controller type<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; =
functions as well.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes, and =
this is one of the risks of PCE as a shiny thing: that it be converted =
from a useful toolkit into some form of god-box. I pontificated on this =
way back in 2014 at =
http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnwards.pdf<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; How this comes into play and realization of the =
lines being blurred is the use of<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; BGP-LS in building the IGP topological graph of =
the network which was designed<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; =
for PCEP and PCE &amp; PCC active &amp; passive off line path =
computation for both<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; RSVP-TE or =
SR-TE path instantiation.&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>In some =
senses, BGP-LS didn=E2=80=99t add anything because a PCE could have =
snooped on the IGP. But BGP-LS provides an export mechanism and =
importantly adds to that some policy filters to determine what is =
exported thus giving the network some control over what is =
exported.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FWIW, <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-ls/">htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-ls/</a> proposes =
using PCEP for the same function. The argument in favor is that a PCE =
has to implement PCEP anyway, so why not include the LS export as well. =
The argument against is that BGP-LS has wider applicability and that it =
will typically be exported from an ASBR which already supports =
BGP.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; However now BGP-LS can also be used for other =
functions now such as usage as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; I =
am a Shepherd reviewing a draft for BGP-LS usage for BIER to use BGP-LS =
to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; gather the elements internals =
within BIER using the same BGP-LS data structures<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; to populate with BIER specific information to =
graph the BIER topology.&nbsp; So here<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; we are not doing any path computations as we are =
using in this use case&nbsp; for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; =
NMS type function to gather data for ZTP &amp; Day N =
provisioning.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS =
TS-Transport slice and being able<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN =
RT &amp; resource information<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; =
and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gathering &amp; ZTP like =
controller style<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; =
provisioning.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Is there a =
fundamental difference between ZTP &amp; Day N provisioning and path =
computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all =
determining how to configure the network to best carry =
traffic.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; It does seem as though BGP-LS as its a means of =
&quot;data gathering&quot; &quot;dump truck&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; of anything with the kitchen sink included to =
build any type of topological graph<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; of literally anything under the =
sun.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Remembering Yakov Rekhter saying you could use BGP to =
transport Shakespeare. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>This is a =
tension with any protocol BGP-LS, PCEP, etc., etc. Stuff gets added, =
further use gets made.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>BGP-LS was =
intended to export routing information =E2=80=9Cnorthbound=E2=80=9D from =
the network.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt;&nbsp;I see that is a nice to leverage but it does =
in fact blur the lines of NMS Netconf/Yang<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; Controller based functionality and&nbsp; PCE path =
computation functionality and SDN<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; controller based ZTP functionality into a single =
ubiquitous server that can do all of<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; the above and use BGP-LS to accomplish the =
&quot;kitchen sink&quot; tasks.&nbsp; It does however<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; transform BGP to be an NMS tool but a =
&quot;tool&quot; and not just the original function<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; which it was intended NLRI network =
reachability.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Not sure that BGP-LS is BGP. But I agree that BGP-LS =
is =E2=80=9Can NMS tool=E2=80=9D.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
might argue that BGP distributing policies from installation on PEs is =
an NMS protocol.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; Am I off base and please let me know as its =
BGP-LS is being way over leveraged.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; There are pros &amp; cons to everything but I =
thought I would bring up to the WG as<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; an important discussion point.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Who are we =
to argue with real implementations? Assuming that there is a push for =
implementation and deployment, then the thing to look for is =
=E2=80=9Charm=E2=80=9D. Does this use of BGP-LS cause harm, sow =
confusion, risk destabilising the network? Should it use a different =
code point to be distinguishable?<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I think the =
argument that =E2=80=9Cthere is already another protocol for doing =
this=E2=80=9D is worth examining. But we have to be careful that it =
doesn=E2=80=99t get us stuck, or force everyone to do something they =
don=E2=80=99t want to do. After all, we could carry any protocol message =
using Netconf/YANG, but we don=E2=80=99t do =E2=80=9CRSVP-TE over =
Netconf=E2=80=9D.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Adrian<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></h=
tml>
------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01D6BB47.7EE27210--


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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Multicast VPN Fast Upstream Failover
        Authors         : Thomas Morin
                          Robert Kebler
                          Greg Mirsky
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13.txt
	Pages           : 24
	Date            : 2020-11-15

Abstract:
   This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures that
   allow fast failover for upstream failures by allowing downstream PEs
   to consider the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels) when selecting
   the upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow.  The fast failover is
   enabled by using RFC 8562 BFD for Multipoint Networks and the new BGP
   Attribute - BFD Discriminator.  Also, the document introduces a new
   BGP Community, Standby PE, extending BGP Multicast VPN routing so
   that a C-multicast route can be advertised toward a Standby Upstream
   PE.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
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--00000000000010f7fa05b42b09f0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear All,
updates included in this version address comments received earlier in the
SecDir review. Many thanks to Daniel for his helpful comments and the great
discussion. To the best of my knowledge, all comments received from RtgDir
and SecDir reviews have been addressed.
Please let the authors know if there are any remaining issues.

Regards,
Greg (on behalf of the authors)

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 12:19 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for
draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13.txt
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Thomas Morin <
thomas.morin@orange-ftgroup.com>, Robert Kebler <rkebler@juniper.net>



A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover
Revision:       13
Title:          Multicast VPN Fast Upstream Failover
Document date:  2020-11-15
Group:          bess
Pages:          24
URL:
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13.txt
Status:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover/
Htmlized:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover
Htmlized:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13
Diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13

Abstract:
   This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures that
   allow fast failover for upstream failures by allowing downstream PEs
   to consider the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels) when selecting
   the upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow.  The fast failover is
   enabled by using RFC 8562 BFD for Multipoint Networks and the new BGP
   Attribute - BFD Discriminator.  Also, the document introduces a new
   BGP Community, Standby PE, extending BGP Multicast VPN routing so
   that a C-multicast route can be advertised toward a Standby Upstream
   PE.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--00000000000010f7fa05b42b09f0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>updates included in this version address com=
ments received earlier=C2=A0in the SecDir review. Many thanks to Daniel for=
 his helpful comments and the great discussion. To the best of my knowledge=
, all comments received from RtgDir and SecDir reviews have been addressed.=
</div><div>Please let the authors know if there are any remaining issues.</=
div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg (on behalf=C2=A0of the auth=
ors)<br><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail=
_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <span dir=3D"auto">&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>=
&gt;</span><br>Date: Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 12:19 PM<br>Subject: New Version =
Notification for draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13.txt<br>To: Greg Mirs=
ky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;, Thomas Morin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange-ftgroup.com">tho=
mas.morin@orange-ftgroup.com</a>&gt;, Robert Kebler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:r=
kebler@juniper.net">rkebler@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fai=
lover<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A013<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Multicast VPN Fast Upstream Failov=
er<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-11-15<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 bess<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 24<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/archive/id/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fas=
t-failover-13.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failove=
r/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"=
_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-fai=
lover</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bess-mvpn-fast-failover-13" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bess-mvpn=
-fast-failover-13</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines multicast VPN extensions and procedures =
that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allow fast failover for upstream failures by allowing downstre=
am PEs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to consider the status of Provider-Tunnels (P-tunnels) when se=
lecting<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the upstream PE for a VPN multicast flow.=C2=A0 The fast failo=
ver is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0enabled by using RFC 8562 BFD for Multipoint Networks and the =
new BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Attribute - BFD Discriminator.=C2=A0 Also, the document introd=
uces a new<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0BGP Community, Standby PE, extending BGP Multicast VPN routing=
 so<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that a C-multicast route can be advertised toward a Standby Up=
stream<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0PE.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></div></div>

--00000000000010f7fa05b42b09f0--


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Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-aggregation-label-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : MVPN/EVPN Tunnel Aggregation with Common Labels
        Authors         : Zhaohui Zhang
                          Eric Rosen
                          Wen Lin
                          Zhenbin Li
                          IJsbrand Wijnands
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-aggregation-label-04.txt
	Pages           : 14
	Date            : 2020-11-15

Abstract:
   The MVPN specifications allow a single Point-to-Multipoint (P2MP)
   tunnel to carry traffic of multiple VPNs.  The EVPN specifications
   allow a single P2MP tunnel to carry traffic of multiple Broadcast
   Domains (BDs).  These features require the ingress router of the P2MP
   tunnel to allocate an upstream-assigned MPLS label for each VPN or
   for each BD.  A packet sent on a P2MP tunnel then carries the label
   that is mapped to its VPN or BD.  (In some cases, a distinct
   upstream-assigned is needed for each flow.)  Since each ingress
   router allocates labels independently, with no coordination among the
   ingress routers, the egress routers may need to keep track of a large
   number of labels.  The number of labels may need to be as large (or
   larger) than the product of the number of ingress routers times the
   number of VPNs or BDs.  However, the number of labels can be greatly
   reduced if the association between a label and a VPN or BD is made by
   provisioning, so that all ingress routers assign the same label to a
   particular VPN or BD.  New procedures are needed in order to take
   advantage of such provisioned labels.  These new procedures also
   apply to Multipoint-to-Multipoint (MP2MP) tunnels.  This document
   updates RFCs 6514, 7432 and 7582 by specifying the necessary
   procedures.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-aggregation-label/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-aggregation-label-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-aggregation-label-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-aggregation-label-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org" <draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org>,  mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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I think that it would be more productive to address the known issues =
first, particularly the issue of ECMP and the need to change the packet =
structure to make it ECMP safe, and then the WG discussion will be more =
focused.=20

- Stewart


> On 12 Nov 2020, at 21:37, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Stewart,
> =20
> I hope you did not mean that the draft should not be presented. =
Whether detailed discussions can happen after the presentation in the =
session itself depends on many factors (we quite often run out of time =
in the sessions), and the presentation itself quite often is a good way =
to stir up wide discussions.
> =20
> Thanks to your review and comment, I think we=E2=80=99re having good =
discussions on mailing lists on the draft. I hope I have answered your =
questions and addressed your main concerns, and I hope more people chime =
in, before and after the presentations in relevant WGs.
> =20
> Thanks.
> Jeffrey
> =20
> =20
> From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com =
<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>=20
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 7:16 AM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net =
<mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>
> Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com =
<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com =
<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>; =
draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org>; mpls =
<mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>; pals@ietf.org =
<mailto:pals@ietf.org>; bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] Mail regarding =
draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions
> =20
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> =20
> In my view, the discussion on this draft demonstrate that it is not =
yet ready for detailed discussion by these working groups next week.
> =20
> - Stewart
> =20
>=20
>=20
> On 11 Nov 2020, at 16:32, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net =
<mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>> wrote:
> =20
> Hi Andy, Stewart,
> =20
> Please see zzh> below.
> =20
> From: Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>=20=

> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 8:17 AM
> To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com =
<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net =
<mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; =
draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org>; mpls =
<mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>; pals@ietf.org =
<mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] Mail regarding =
draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions
> =20
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> =20
> Just to add a bit to Stewart's replies, I assume that you've read RFC =
8469, which was the result of the "disorderly queue of operators at the =
door of PALS".
> =20
> Zzh> Actually I need to read on that yet.
> =20
> Also, regarding VPLS, VPLS is just a full mesh of P2P Ethernet PWs, =
and while RFC 4762 is silent on the CW, in practice many (most?) VPLS =
implementations use the CW.
> =20
> Zzh> OK if VPLS relies on data plane mac learning for packets received =
from the core then indeed they=E2=80=99re a full mesh of PWs and =
that=E2=80=99s different from EVPN. I=E2=80=99ll need to dig deeper into =
that. Still, if we solve the EVPN problem using the generic =
fragmentation method, the solution works for VPLS/PW as well.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Andy
> =20
> =20
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:11 AM Stewart Bryant =
<stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Oh there is a deeper problem
>=20
> Unless you guarantee that you have defeated ECMP, which I don=E2=80=99t =
think the design does since first nibble is not 0000, I think the =
different fragments can get ECMPed differently. If that happens then =
(unlike the PW case) you cannot be sure that the fragments will arrive =
on the same LC, and that means that you need to support cross line card =
reassembly. If that happens your performance falls through the floor.
>=20
> Zzh> I see what you mean. Perhaps we can separate the one-octet =
=E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D from the existing IP =E2=80=9CNext =
Header=E2=80=9D space so that the first nibble is always 0000? That =
gives us 16 types of =E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 or we only =
need to make sure the nibble is not 4 or 6 =E2=80=93 that gives us more =
types.
>=20
> Zzh> Thanks.
>=20
> Zzh> Jeffrey
>=20
> Of course you could argue that it will mostly work, just like people =
argued that not having the CW would work well enough in PW, and it did =
mostly work, until it didn=E2=80=99t and we had a disorderly :) queue of =
operators at the door of PALS WG.
>=20
> Now what happens in the VPN cases in the existing design is that just =
like PW you will be seeing occasional Ethernet reordering, which mostly =
does not matter because what is being carried is IP, but as we found out =
in PALS it sometimes does matter an it is very difficult for the =
operators to diagnose, and then it does matter. However what you have is =
potentially much worse because you will accumulate fragments on =
different line cards, or have a very complex implementation problem to =
reassemble at speed.
>=20
> - Stewart
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Juniper Business Use Only
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Juniper Business Use Only
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">I =
think that it would be more productive to address the known issues =
first, particularly the issue of ECMP and the need to change the packet =
structure to make it ECMP safe, and then the WG discussion will be more =
focused.&nbsp;<div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">- Stewart</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12 =
Nov 2020, at 21:37, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" class=3D"">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi Stewart,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I hope you did not mean =
that the draft should not be presented. Whether detailed discussions can =
happen after the presentation in the session itself depends on many =
factors (we quite often run out of time in the sessions), and the =
presentation itself quite often is a good way to stir up wide =
discussions.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Thanks to your review and =
comment, I think we=E2=80=99re having good discussions on mailing lists =
on the draft. I hope I have answered your questions and addressed your =
main concerns, and I hope more people chime in, before and after the =
presentations in relevant WGs.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Thanks.<br class=3D"">Jeffrey<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, =
225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Stewart Bryant &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, November 12, 2020 =
7:16 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Stewart Bryant &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org</a>; =
mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">bess@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] Mail regarding =
draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; line-height: 12pt; background-color: =
rgb(255, 235, 156);" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class=3D"">[External Email. Be =
cautious of content]<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></b></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">In my view, the discussion on this =
draft demonstrate that it is not yet ready for detailed discussion by =
these working groups next week.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">- =
Stewart<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">On =
11 Nov 2020, at 16:32, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi Andy, Stewart,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Please =
see zzh&gt; below.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: =
3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Wednesday, November 11, =
2020 8:17 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Stewart Bryant &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org</a>; =
mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] Mail regarding =
draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; line-height: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 235, =
156);" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class=3D"">[External Email. Be cautious =
of content]</span></b><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Just to add a bit to Stewart's replies, =
I assume that you've read RFC 8469, which was the result of the =
"disorderly queue of operators at the door of PALS".<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Zzh&gt; =
Actually I need to read on that yet.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Also, regarding VPLS, VPLS is just a =
full&nbsp;mesh of P2P Ethernet PWs, and while RFC&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">4762 is silent on the CW, in =
practice many (most?) VPLS implementations use the CW.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Zzh&gt; =
OK if VPLS relies on data plane mac learning for packets received from =
the core then indeed they=E2=80=99re a full mesh of PWs and that=E2=80=99s=
 different from EVPN. I=E2=80=99ll need to dig deeper into that. Still, =
if we solve the EVPN problem using the generic fragmentation method, the =
solution works for VPLS/PW as well.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;" class=3D"">Cheers,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D"">Andy</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">On Wed, =
Nov 11, 2020 at 8:11 AM Stewart Bryant &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><blockquote =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: =
5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Oh =
there is a deeper problem<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Unless you =
guarantee that you have defeated ECMP, which I don=E2=80=99t think the =
design does since first nibble is not 0000, I think the different =
fragments can get ECMPed differently. If that happens then (unlike the =
PW case) you cannot be sure that the fragments will arrive on the same =
LC, and that means that you need to support cross line card reassembly. =
If that happens your performance falls through the floor.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Zzh&gt; I see =
what you mean. Perhaps we can separate the one-octet =E2=80=9CNext =
Header=E2=80=9D from the existing IP =E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D space =
so that the first nibble is always 0000? That gives us 16 types of =
=E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 or we only need to make sure the =
nibble is not 4 or 6 =E2=80=93 that gives us more types.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Zzh&gt; =
Thanks.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">Zzh&gt; Jeffrey<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Of course you =
could argue that it will mostly work, just like people argued that not =
having the CW would work well enough in PW, and it did mostly work, =
until it didn=E2=80=99t and we had a disorderly :) queue of operators at =
the door of PALS WG.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Now what happens in =
the VPN cases in the existing design is that just like PW you will be =
seeing occasional Ethernet reordering, which mostly does not matter =
because what is being carried is IP, but as we found out in PALS it =
sometimes does matter an it is very difficult for the operators to =
diagnose, and then it does matter. However what you have is potentially =
much worse because you will accumulate fragments on different line =
cards, or have a very complex implementation problem to reassemble at =
speed.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">- Stewart<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
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0px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin: 15pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: center;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 7pt;" class=3D"">Juniper Business Use Only<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
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text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
CC: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org" <draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] Mail regarding draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions
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From: "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" <mankamis@cisco.com>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF 109 agenda modified 
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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8365,
"A Network Virtualization Overlay Solution Using Ethernet VPN (EVPN)".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid6336

--------------------------------------
Type: Editorial
Reported by: Luc Andre Burdet <laburdet.ietf@gmail.com>

Section: 8.1.5

Original Text
-------------
8.1.5.  DF Election
...
   EVI, normalized VIDs, and etc., as along the IDs are configured


Corrected Text
--------------
8.1.5.  DF Election
...
   EVI, normalized VIDs, and etc., as long as the IDs are configured


Notes
-----
Nit.
=> as long as

Instructions:
-------------
This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party  
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. 

--------------------------------------
RFC8365 (draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-12)
--------------------------------------
Title               : A Network Virtualization Overlay Solution Using Ethernet VPN (EVPN)
Publication Date    : March 2018
Author(s)           : A. Sajassi, Ed., J. Drake, Ed., N. Bitar, R. Shekhar, J. Uttaro, W. Henderickx
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : BGP Enabled Services
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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Hi authors,

Please make sure to update -05 to drop mention of DF Types 2&3 (these are a=
 Capability) and the pluralisation Nit raised below?
Thanks !

Regards,
Luc Andr=E9

Luc Andr=E9 Burdet |  Cisco  |  laburdet.ietf@gmail.com  |  Tel: +1 613 254=
 4814


From: Luc Andr=E9 Burdet <laburdet.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, December 6, 2019 at 11:49
To: "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-per-mcast-flow-df-election@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-=
bess-evpn-per-mcast-flow-df-election@ietf.org>
Cc: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Mail regarding draft-ietf-bess-evpn-per-mcast-flow-df-election

Hi authors,
Quick note: can you make sure that in the next revision of this draft the D=
F Election EC section 3 is updated?
Fast-DF-recovery is claiming 2 DF Capability bits, not DF-Types


      *  Type 2: Handshake defines in

         [I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-fast-df-recovery<https://tools.ietf.org/html/d=
raft-ietf-bess-evpn-per-mcast-flow-df-election-02#ref-I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-fa=
st-df-recovery>]



      *  Type 3: Time-Synch defined in

         [I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-fast-df-recovery<https://tools.ietf.org/html/d=
raft-ietf-bess-evpn-per-mcast-flow-df-election-02#ref-I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-fa=
st-df-recovery>]

As a general comment to WG, the DF-Type and DF-Capabilities values are neve=
r pre-allocated for WG-adopted documents... making tracking & updating tedi=
ous.  Can we at/before 107 request pre-allocation of some of these in the W=
G drafts that have stabilised?

Nit:

The current proposal extends the existing extended community defined in

   [I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-df-election-framework<https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-ietf-bess-evpn-per-mcast-flow-df-election-02#ref-I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-df-=
election-framework>]. This draft defines new a DF type.
-->Defines =93two new DF Types=94


Regards,
Luc Andr=E9

Luc Andr=E9 Burdet |  Cisco  |  laburdet.ietf@gmail.com  |  Tel: +1 613 254=
 4814


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Hi authors,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Please make sure to update -05 to drop mention of DF Types 2&amp;=
3 (these are a Capability) and the pluralisation Nit raised below?<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Thanks !<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Luc Andr=E9<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Luc Andr=E9 Burdet | &nbsp;Cisco &nbsp;|&nbsp; laburdet.ietf@gmai=
l.com&nbsp; |&nbsp; Tel: +1 613 254 4814<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From: </span></b><spa=
n style=3D"color:black">Luc Andr=E9 Burdet &lt;laburdet.ietf@gmail.com&gt;<=
br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, December 6, 2019 at 11:49<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-per-mcast-flow-df-election@ietf.org&q=
uot; &lt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-per-mcast-flow-df-election@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;bess@ietf.org&quot; &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Mail regarding draft-ietf-bess-evpn-per-mcast-flow-df-elect=
ion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Hi authors,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Quick note: can you make sure that in the next revision of this d=
raft the DF Election EC section 3 is updated?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Fast-DF-recovery is claiming 2 DF Capability bits, not DF-Types</=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; Typ=
e 2: Handshake defines in</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-per-mca=
st-flow-df-election-02#ref-I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-fast-df-recovery" title=3D"&q=
uot;Fast Recovery for EVPN DF Election&quot;">I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-fast-df-re=
covery</a>]</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; Typ=
e 3: Time-Synch defined in</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-per-mca=
st-flow-df-election-02#ref-I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-fast-df-recovery" title=3D"&q=
uot;Fast Recovery for EVPN DF Election&quot;">I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-fast-df-re=
covery</a>]</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">As a general comment to WG, the DF-Type and DF-Capabilities value=
s are never pre-allocated for WG-adopted documents... making tracking &amp;=
 updating tedious.&nbsp; Can we at/before 107 request
 pre-allocation of some of these in the WG drafts that have stabilised?</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Nit:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">The current proposal extends the existing =
extended community defined in</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; [<a href=3D"https://tools.iet=
f.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-per-mcast-flow-df-election-02#ref-I-D.ietf-=
bess-evpn-df-election-framework" title=3D"&quot;Framework for EVPN Designat=
ed Forwarder Election Extensibility&quot;">I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-df-election-f=
ramework</a>]. This draft defines new a DF type.</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F4E79">--&gt;Defines =93two new DF Types=94=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Luc Andr=E9</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F4E79">Luc Andr=E9 Burdet | &nbsp;Cisco &nbsp;|&nbsp; laburdet.ietf@gmai=
l.com&nbsp; |&nbsp; Tel: +1 613 254 4814</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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Subject: Re: [bess] Mail regarding draft-ietf-bess-evpn-per-mcast-flow-df-election
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The following errata report has been held for document update 
for RFC8365, "A Network Virtualization Overlay Solution Using Ethernet VPN (EVPN)". 

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid6336

--------------------------------------
Status: Held for Document Update
Type: Editorial

Reported by: Luc Andre Burdet <laburdet.ietf@gmail.com>
Date Reported: 2020-11-16
Held by: Alvaro Retana (IESG)

Section: 8.1.5

Original Text
-------------
8.1.5.  DF Election
...
   EVI, normalized VIDs, and etc., as along the IDs are configured


Corrected Text
--------------
8.1.5.  DF Election
...
   EVI, normalized VIDs, and etc., as long as the IDs are configured


Notes
-----
Nit.
=> as long as

--------------------------------------
RFC8365 (draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-12)
--------------------------------------
Title               : A Network Virtualization Overlay Solution Using Ethernet VPN (EVPN)
Publication Date    : March 2018
Author(s)           : A. Sajassi, Ed., J. Drake, Ed., N. Bitar, R. Shekhar, J. Uttaro, W. Henderickx
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : BGP Enabled Services
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org" <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 08:49:28 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/O_gfIIWt2UizMlfFxrYLK97PLB0>
Subject: Re: [bess] WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
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--_000_VI1PR0701MB699106B15B49924F200D5604EBE10VI1PR0701MB6991_
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This poll has now concluded.

I believe there is consensus to adopt the draft as a BESS WG draft.

Authors: Please upload a new version with the name draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evp=
n-sr-p2mp-00

Regards

Matthew

From: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Date: Monday, 2 November 2020 at 12:42
To: bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>, draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf=
.org <draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org>
Subject: WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-02
Hello,

This email begins a two-weeks WG adoption poll for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-e=
vpn-sr-p2mp [1].

Please review the draft and post any comments to the BESS working group lis=
t.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re=
spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva=
nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document will not  p=
rogress without answers from all of the authors and contributors.

Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly=
 respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i=
n conformance with IETF rules.

This poll for adoption closes on Monday 16th November 2020.

Regards,
Matthew and Stephane

[1]  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/





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<body lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:b=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">This poll has now c=
oncluded.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">I believe there is =
consensus to adopt the draft as a BESS WG draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Authors: Please upl=
oad a new version with the name draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-00<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Regards<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Matthew<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"col=
or:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;matt=
hew.bocci@nokia.com&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, 2 November 2020 at 12:42<br>
<b>To: </b>bess@ietf.org &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;, draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn=
-sr-p2mp@ietf.org &lt;draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>WG Adoption and IPR all for draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-=
p2mp-02</span><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Hello,</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This email begins a two-weeks WG=
&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>=
for<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D=
"color:black">draft-parekh-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1].</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Please review the draft and post=
 any comments to the BESS working group list.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">We are also&nbsp;polling for kno=
wledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this document, to ensure that=
 IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4=
879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are listed as an author o=
r a contributor of this document, please respond to this email and indicate=
 whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the =
BESS mailing list. The document will
 not &nbsp;progress without answers from all of the authors and contributor=
s.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Currently, there are no IPR disc=
losures against this document.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">If you are not listed as an auth=
or or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware o=
f any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span>poll<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</sp=
an>for&nbsp;adoption&nbsp;closes on Monday 16th<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span>November 2020.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Matthew and Stephane</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1]&nbsp; </span><span style=3D"=
color:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-=
mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-parekh-bess-mvpn=
-evpn-sr-p2mp/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
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References: <041601d5ecaf$d3e46410$7bad2c30$@gmail.com> <477475D5-5521-48F8-850B-9DA353CEE297@nokia.com> <0b9301d67f7c$0809f1b0$181dd510$@gmail.com> <MWHPR08MB3520F6DDC633ED95F9DB046FF72E0@MWHPR08MB3520.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Luc_Andr=C3=A9_Burdet?= <laburdet.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:05:20 -0500
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To: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>,  "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org>,  "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] Shepherd's Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df
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Hi St=C3=A9phane, Jorge,


On the issue of tie-breaking, I would agree with St=C3=A9phane.


It is too easy for peering PEs to be misconfigured / in disagreement as to
Hi or Lo and this should be signaled if at least in an error reporting
capacity.



I would propose to go even further. This DF Election algorithm compares
fields in a given order:

   - Field 1: Preference Weight
   - Field 2: IP Address Tie-break if Field1 is a tie, and hope all PEs use
   same Hi or Lo.



The algorithm could be made very generic in terms of tie break and provide
for a cascading order or skipping a field entirely:

   - Field 1: Preference Weight


   - Optional Tie-break Method X: IP Address Field, Highest-IP
   - Optional Tie-break Method Y: IP Address Field, Lowest-IP
   - Optional Tie-break Method Z: Local-Policy ( see section 4.1(g) )


We could potentially mandate at least one MUST be provided and signaled
incl order of resolving tie-break?

Basically my point is that IP is unique but also an arbitrary Field to use,
many more *could* be better suited for tie-break d=C3=A9p. use-case.  There=
 are
practical examples where *local policies* will affect weight but perhaps
that *local-policy itself serves as a tie-break*.

One could split the Reserved field of section 3 into 2 nibbles:
Tie-break-1, Tie-break-2 for mismatch detection, and this draft defines
"well-known values" IP-Hi=3D0 and IP-Lo=3D1 (leaving all others to
implementation-specific values (non-assigned) and ONLY for error detection.

Luc Andr=C3=A9 Burdet | laburdet.ietf@gmail.com | +1 613 254 48 14
.:|:.:|:. Cisco Systems Canada Inc.


On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 1:25 AM Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) <
jorge.rabadan@nokia.com> wrote:

> Hi Stephane,
>
>
>
> Please see in-line with [jorge2].
>
> Thank you!
>
> Jorge
>
>
>
> *From: *slitkows.ietf@gmail.com <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, August 31, 2020 at 11:49 AM
> *To: *Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>=
,
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org <
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org>, bess-chairs@ietf.org <
> bess-chairs@ietf.org>, bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *RE: Shepherd's Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df
>
> Hi Jorge,
>
>
>
> Please find additional feedback inline.
>
> (Stripping things we agree on)
>
>
>
> Stephane
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) <jorge.rabadan@nokia.co=
m>
>
> *Sent:* vendredi 19 juin 2020 20:37
> *To:* slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org;
> bess-chairs@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Shepherd's Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df
>
>
>
> Hi Stephane,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the review and my apologies for the delay.
>
> We just posted a new revision.
>
>
>
> As usual, very good points. Please see in-line.
>
>
>
> Thx
>
> Jorge
>
>
>
> *From: *"slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, February 26, 2020 at 3:20 PM
> *To: *"draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org" <
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org>, 'BESS' <bess@ietf.org>
> *Cc: *"bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Shepherd's Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df
> *Resent-From: *<alias-bounces@ietf.org>
> *Resent-To: *<jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, <senthil.sathappan@nokia.com>, <
> prz@juniper.net>, <wlin@juniper.net>, <jdrake@juniper.net>, <
> sajassi@cisco.com>, <satyamoh@cisco.com>
> *Resent-Date: *Wednesday, February 26, 2020 at 3:20 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Section 4.1:
>
>         =E2=80=9C Note that, by default, the Highest-Preference is chosen=
 for each
>
>        ES or vES, however the ES configuration can be changed to the
>
>        Lowest-Preference algorithm as long as this option is consistent
>
>        in all the PEs in the ES.
>
> I don=E2=80=99t think it is a good idea to open this modification. People=
 can play
> with preference values to achieve the required behavior while always
> keeping high pref.
>
> We have no way to ensure consistency, except if we advertise the behavior
> as part of the exct. Consistency of DF election is key and needs to be
> ensured as much as we can.
>
> *[Jorge] the idea is have the highest preference as default (maybe use
> normative language?), which means that it will work fine. Opening to lowe=
st
> is to give more flexibility, knowing that if the user has to change the
> config from the default, they will do it in all the PEs of the ES.*
>
>
>
> [SLI] I don=E2=80=99t think this is a good idea, consistency is really im=
portant,
> if you absolutely want to do both lowest and highest, you can allocate a
> new DF Alg for lowest so we ensure that everybody uses the same algorithm=
.
> But I don=E2=80=99t think this is necessary, having highest preference is=
 enough. I
> don=E2=80=99t remember any feature using a preference that can do both hi=
ghest and
> lowest, it is usually one or the other.
>
>
>
>
>
> *[Jorge2] ok, we can leave just the highest-preference in section 4.1.
> We=E2=80=99ll fix it in the next revision. Note that in 4.2 we still need=
 to have
> highest and lowest pref per ethernet tag range to make sure there is load
> balancing.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CWhen PE3's vES2 comes back up, PE3 will start a boot-timer (if
>
>        booting up) or hold-timer (if the port or EVC recovers).  That
>
>        timer will allow some time for PE3 to receive the ES routes from
>
>        PE1 and PE2. =C2=BB
>
>
>
> Are you changing the way the DF election works ? Usually, PE advertises i=
ts route and then wait to receive other routes.
>
> *[Jorge] those timers are on top of the FSM defined in RFC8584, e.g. we n=
eed to give some extra time before the ES goes up and we advertise the ES r=
oute, if the ES is configured with the DP capability. This is because the a=
dvertised preference and DP values may not be the same as the configured on=
es, and the =E2=80=98in-use=E2=80=99 values will depend on the other ES rou=
tes in the ES. If we advertise the ES route immediately after the ES is up,=
 we may not have received the other ES routes and we don=E2=80=99t know wha=
t =E2=80=9Cin-use=E2=80=9D values to advertise in order to avoid preemption=
 in the ES. I added some text on point 5 (section 4.3).*
>
>
>
>
>
> *[SLI] As we are updating the FSM, could we have new state and events def=
ined to update the FSM similarly as we have in RFC8584 ?*
>
> *[jorge2] not sure if we should update the FSM, the reason being that
> those hold timers are generic for any redundancy mechanism, to avoid
> attracting traffic from the access before the core IGP/BGP are up and hav=
e
> all the required routes available. Some implementations use fixed timers,
> others configurable timers, others watch when the IGP/BGP come up and lea=
ve
> an additional delta. I thought the current text is generic enough to allo=
w
> all those implementations.*
>
>
>
>
>
> What happens if all PEs on the ES are failing at the same time or the ES =
booting up on all the PEs at the same time ? you have no way to hear what i=
s the pref from the remote.
>
> *[Jorge] The non-revertive capability makes sense when there is at least =
one PE alive in the ES and we don=E2=80=99t want to preempt it so that ther=
e is no traffic impact. If all the PEs fail, there is traffic impact anyway=
, so there is really no non-revertive behavior, but an initialization in al=
l the PEs.*
>
>
>
> *[SLI] Let=E2=80=99s say that you have a CE attached to 3 PEs (same ESI).=
 PE1 pref 100, PE2 pref 200, PE3 pref 300. PE1 to 3 are configured with DP =
set. PE4 is a remote PE.*
>
> *T0:CE fails and boots up.*
>
> *T1:PE1 to PE3 starts their HOLD_TIMER*
>
> *T2: PE1 HOLD_TIMER expires,  advertises ES route and starts DF_TIMER*
>
> *T3: PE4 discovers ES from PE1 and starts DF_TIMER*
>
> *[jorge2] I assume you mean PE3 here.*
>
> *T4: PE2 HOLD_TIMER expires,  advertises ES route and starts DF_TIMER, do=
es it advertises with Pref100 and DP=3D0 as it knows from PE1 route even if=
 PE1 is not DF yet ?*
>
> *[jorge2] this is an example in which all PEs are =E2=80=98initializing=
=E2=80=99 at the
> same time, so there is traffic impact anyway because the CE reboots. So i=
t
> would be more like an initialization example. Nevertheless, PE2 in this
> case should advertise the ES route with in-use pref 100 and DP=3D0.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Brgds,
>
>
>
> Stephane
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">Hi St=C3=A9phane, Jo=
rge,</font></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001=
pt"><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><br></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">On the i=
ssue of tie-breaking,=C2=A0I would agree with St=C3=A9phane.</font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><br></font></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D""><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">It is too easy for peering PEs to =
be
misconfigured / in disagreement as to Hi or Lo and this should be signaled =
if at least in an error reporting capacity. </font></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">=C2=A0</font></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font face=3D"aria=
l, sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">I would propose to go even f=
urther. T</span>his DF Election algorithm compares fields in a
given order:</font></p>

<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm" type=3D"disc">
 <li class=3D"gmail-MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">Field
     1: Preference Weight</font></span></li>
 <li class=3D"gmail-MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">Field
     2: IP Address Tie-break if Field1 is a tie, and hope all PEs use same =
Hi or Lo.</font></span></li>
</ul>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">=C2=A0</font></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">The algorithm could be made =
very generic in
terms of tie break and provide for a cascading order or skipping
a field entirely:</font></span></p>

<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm" type=3D"disc">
 <li class=3D"gmail-MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">Field
     1: Preference Weight</font></span></li></ul>

<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm" type=3D"disc">
 <li class=3D"gmail-MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">Optional
     Tie-break Method X: IP Address Field, Highest-IP</font></span></li>
 <li class=3D"gmail-MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">Optional
     Tie-break Method Y: IP Address Field, Lowest-IP</font></span></li>
 <li class=3D"gmail-MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">Optional
     Tie-break Method Z: Local-Policy ( see section 4.1(g) )</font></span><=
/li>
</ul>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font face=3D"aria=
l, sans-serif"><br></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt"><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">We could potentially mandate a=
t least one MUST be provided and signaled incl order
of resolving tie-break?=C2=A0</font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font face=3D"aria=
l, sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">Basically my point is that I=
P is unique but also an arbitrary
Field to use, many more <b>could</b> be better suited for tie-break d=C3=A9=
p. use-case.=C2=A0=C2=A0</span>There are practical examples where <b>local =
policies</b> will affect weight but perhaps that <i>local-policy itself ser=
ves as a tie-break</i>.</font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font face=3D"aria=
l, sans-serif" style=3D"">One could split the Reserved field of section 3 i=
nto 2 nibbles: Tie-break-1, Tie-break-2 for mismatch detection, and this dr=
aft defines &quot;well-known values&quot; IP-Hi=3D0 and IP-Lo=3D1 (leaving =
all others to implementation-specific values (non-assigned) and ONLY for er=
ror detection.</font></p></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" clas=
s=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"monosp=
ace"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12px">Luc Andr=C3=A9 Burdet =
|</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12px">=C2=A0</span><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:laburdet.ietf@gmail.com" style=3D"color:rgb(149,79,114);font-si=
ze:12px" target=3D"_blank">laburdet.ietf@gmail.com</a>=C2=A0|=C2=A0<span st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12px">+1 613 254 48 14</span></font></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12px"><font fac=
e=3D"monospace"></font></span></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><font=
 face=3D"monospace"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12px">.:|:.:|=
:.=C2=A0</span>Cisco Systems Canada Inc.</font></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt=
r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 1:25 AM Rabadan, Jorge (Noki=
a - US/Mountain View) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com">jorge.=
rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_7267405999117697995WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Hi Stephane,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Please see in-line with [jorge2].<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Thank you!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Jorge<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-=
left:36pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkow=
s.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, August 31, 2020 at 11:49 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jorge.rabadan@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt;,=
 <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf=
-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df=
@ietf.org</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mailto:bess-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">bess-chairs@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess-chairs@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">bess-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: Shepherd&#39;s Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">Hi Jorge,<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">Please find additional fe=
edback inline.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">(Stripping things we agre=
e on)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">Stephane<u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b>From:</b> Rabadan, Jor=
ge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com=
" target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> vendredi 19 juin 2020 20:37<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sli=
tkows.ietf@gmail.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org</a>; <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:bess-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess-chairs@ietf.org</a=
>; <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Shepherd&#39;s Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Hi Stephane,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Thanks for the review and my apologies for the=
 delay.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">We just posted a new revision.</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">As usual, very good points. Please see in-line=
.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Thx</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Jorge
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mail=
to:slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">slitk=
ows.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, February 26, 2020 at 3:20 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-=
ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &#39;BESS&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bess-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bess-chairs@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">bess-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Shepherd&#39;s Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df<br>
<b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">alias-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Resent-To: </b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com" target=3D"=
_blank">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.sath=
appan@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.sathappan@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&g=
t;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wlin@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">wlin@juniper.=
net</a>&gt;,
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper=
.net</a>&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sa=
jassi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:satyamoh@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">satyamoh@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Resent-Date: </b>Wednesday, February 26, 2020 at 3:20 PM</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72pt">Section 4.1:<u></u><u></u=
></p>
<div style=3D"border:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:8pt">
<pre style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.9pt;margin-left:72pt;backgro=
und:rgb(255,253,245);word-break:break-all"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9C </span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.5pt;color:black">Note that, by default, the Highest-Preference is=
 chosen for each</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.9pt;margin=
-left:72pt;background:rgb(255,253,245);word-break:break-all">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:b=
lack">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ES or vES, however the ES config=
uration can be changed to the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.9pt;margin=
-left:72pt;background:rgb(255,253,245);word-break:break-all">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:b=
lack">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Lowest-Preference algorithm as l=
ong as this option is consistent</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.9pt;margin=
-left:72pt;background:rgb(255,253,245);word-break:break-all">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:b=
lack">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in all the PEs in the ES.</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72pt">I don=E2=80=99t think it =
is a good idea to open this modification. People can play with preference v=
alues to achieve the required behavior while always keeping high pref.<u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72pt">We have no way to ensure =
consistency, except if we advertise the behavior as part of the exct. Consi=
stency of DF election is key and needs to be ensured as much as we can.<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">[Jorge] the idea is have the highest prefer=
ence as default (maybe use normative language?), which means that it will w=
ork fine. Opening to lowest is to give
 more flexibility, knowing that if the user has to change the config from t=
he default, they will do it in all the PEs of the ES.</span></b><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b>=C2=A0</b><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">[SLI] I don=E2=80=99t thi=
nk this is a good idea, consistency is really important, if you absolutely =
want to do both lowest and highest, you can allocate a new DF Alg for lowes=
t so we ensure that everybody uses the same
 algorithm. But I don=E2=80=99t think this is necessary, having highest pre=
ference is enough. I don=E2=80=99t remember any feature using a preference =
that can do both highest and lowest, it is usually one or the other.<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:red"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Conso=
las"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Conso=
las;color:red">[Jorge2] ok, we can leave just the highest-preference in sec=
tion 4.1. We=E2=80=99ll fix it in the next revision. Note that in 4.2 we st=
ill need to have highest and lowest pref per
 ethernet tag range to make sure there is load balancing.</span></b><b><u><=
/u><u></u></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u=
></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u=
></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:72pt">=E2=80=9C<span style=3D"color:black">When P=
E3&#39;s vES2 comes back up, PE3 will start a boot-timer (if</span><u></u><=
u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 booting up) or hold-timer (if the port or EVC recover=
s).=C2=A0 That</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 timer will allow some time for PE3 to receive the ES =
routes from</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 PE1 and PE2.=C2=A0=C2=BB</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u=
></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span style=3D"color:black">Are you changin=
g the way the DF election works ? Usually, PE advertises its route and then=
 wait to receive other routes.</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:Consolas">[Jorge] those timers are on top of the FSM defined in RFC8584=
, e.g. we need to give some extra time before the ES goes up and we adverti=
se the ES route, if the ES is configured with the DP capability. This is be=
cause the advertised preference and DP values may not be the same as the co=
nfigured ones, and the =E2=80=98in-use=E2=80=99 values will depend on the o=
ther ES routes in the ES. If we advertise the ES route immediately after th=
e ES is up, we may not have received the other ES routes and we don=E2=80=
=99t know what =E2=80=9Cin-use=E2=80=9D values to advertise in order to avo=
id preemption in the ES. I added some text on point 5 (section 4.3).</span>=
</b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">[SLI] As we are updating the FSM, could we have new s=
tate and events defined to update the FSM similarly as we have in RFC8584 ?=
<u></u><u></u></span></b></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Conso=
las;color:red">[jorge2] not sure if we should update the FSM, the reason be=
ing that those hold timers are generic for any redundancy mechanism, to avo=
id attracting traffic from the access
 before the core IGP/BGP are up and have all the required routes available.=
 Some implementations use fixed timers, others configurable timers, others =
watch when the IGP/BGP come up and leave an additional delta. I thought the=
 current text is generic enough
 to allow all those implementations.</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span style=3D"color:black">What happens if=
 all PEs on the ES are failing at the same time or the ES booting up on all=
 the PEs at the same time ? you have no way to hear what is the pref from t=
he remote.</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:Consolas">[Jorge] The non-revertive capability makes sense when there i=
s at least one PE alive in the ES and we don=E2=80=99t want to preempt it s=
o that there is no traffic impact. If all the PEs fail, there is traffic im=
pact anyway, so there is really no non-revertive behavior, but an initializ=
ation in all the PEs.</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">[SLI] Let=E2=80=99s say that you have a CE attached t=
o 3 PEs (same ESI). PE1 pref 100, PE2 pref 200, PE3 pref 300. PE1 to 3 are =
configured with DP set. PE4 is a remote PE.</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">T0:CE fails and boots up.</span></b><u></u><u></u></p=
re>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">T1:PE1 to PE3 starts their HOLD_TIMER</span></b><u></=
u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">T2: PE1 HOLD_TIMER expires, =C2=A0advertises ES route=
 and starts DF_TIMER</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">T3: PE4 discovers ES from PE1 and starts DF_TIMER<u><=
/u><u></u></span></b></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Conso=
las;color:red">[jorge2] I assume you mean PE3 here.</span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">T4: PE2 HOLD_TIMER expires, =C2=A0advertises ES route=
 and starts DF_TIMER, does it advertises with Pref100 and DP=3D0 as it know=
s from PE1 route even if PE1 is not DF yet ?<u></u><u></u></span></b></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Conso=
las;color:red">[jorge2] this is an example in which all PEs are =E2=80=98in=
itializing=E2=80=99 at the same time, so there is traffic impact anyway bec=
ause the CE reboots. So it would be more like an initialization
 example. Nevertheless, PE2 in this case should advertise the ES route with=
 in-use pref 100 and DP=3D0.</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:72pt"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u=
></u><u></u></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72pt">Brgds,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72pt">Stephane<u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

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arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000009cb41805b4664bd5--


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From: "Suresh Basavarajappa (sureshb)" <sureshb@cisco.com>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Some clarification required for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03
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Subject: [bess] Some clarification required for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03
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Hi Authors,

I have the following comments on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-ipvpn-interworking-03=
 version of the draft.
Please see below.

Thanks,
Suresh


4.1.  No-Propagation-Mode
This is the default mode of operation.
Comment:
We must not have default mode of operation which could result in loops.
So the default mode of operation must be Uniform-Propagation-mode,
and No-Propagation-Mode should be made optional.

--

4.3.  Aggregation of Routes and Path Attribute Propagation
   -  ISF routes that have different attributes of the following type
      codes MUST NOT be aggregated: D-PATH, LOCAL_PREF, ORIGINATOR_ID,
      CLUSTER_ID, MED or AIGP.

Comment:

The draft can add a rule on D-PATH asking for not aggregating routes
if they have a different D-PATH value. However, the draft must not talk abo=
ut
other attributes (this is out of scope of the work).

--

5.  Route Selection Process between EVPN and other ISF SAFIs
   For a given prefix advertised in one or more non-EVPN ISF routes, the
   BGP best path selection procedure will produce a set of "non-EVPN
   best paths".  For a given prefix advertised in one or more EVPN ISF
   routes, the BGP best path selection procedure will produce a set of
   "EVPN best paths".  To support IP/EVPN interworking, it is then
   necessary to run a tie-breaking selection algorithm on the union of
   these two sets.
Comment:
The above sentence does not convey the context in which the best path is
calculated. Do you mean the following.

  For a given prefix present in one or more ISF routes, the BGP best path i=
s
  first run in the respective ISF SAFI and then again on the union of
  ISF SAFI best paths in the IP-VRF context.

--

5.  Route Selection Process between EVPN and other ISF SAFIs
   4- Steps 1-3 could possibly leave Equal Cost Multi-Path (ECMP)
      between IP and EVPN paths.  By default, the EVPN path is
      considered (and the IP path removed from consideration).  However,
      if ECMP across ISF SAFIs is enabled by policy, and an "IP path"
      and an "EVPN path" remain at the end of step 3, both path types
      will be used.

Comment:

Referring to non-EVPN paths as IP paths is confusing since EVPN path is
also an IP path

--

7.  Gateway PE Procedures
   The gateway PE procedures are described as follows:
   o  A gateway PE that imports an ISF SAFI-x route to prefix P in an
      IP-VRF, MUST export P in ISF SAFI-y if:
      1.  P is installed in the IP-VRF (hence the SAFI-x route is the
          best one for P) and
      2.  PE has a BGP peer for SAFI-y (enabled for the same IP-VRF) and
      3.  Either x or y is EVPN

Comment:

This above text is unclear and possibly wrong on a couple of points:

- 1. SAFI-x route is the BGP best path for P and

- The last point brings some ambiguity. As SAFI 1 is considered as an ISF S=
AFI,
  you have to consider all combinations of ISF at the gateway, not only
  EVPN <-> something else. The current text could be interpreted in a way t=
hat
  SAFI 1 <-> SAFI 128 route export is broken and it must not.

--

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Authors,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have the following comments on draft-ietf-bess-evp=
n-ipvpn-interworking-03 version of the draft.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please see below.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Suresh<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">4.1.&nbsp; No-Propagation-Mode<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is the default mode of operation.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comment:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We must not have default mode of operation which cou=
ld result in loops.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So the default mode of operation must be Uniform-Pro=
pagation-mode,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and No-Propagation-Mode should be made optional.<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">4.3.&nbsp; Aggregation of Routes and Path Attribute =
Propagation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-&nbsp; ISF routes that have diffe=
rent attributes of the following type<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; codes MUST NOT be agg=
regated: D-PATH, LOCAL_PREF, ORIGINATOR_ID,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; CLUSTER_ID, MED or AI=
GP.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comment:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft can add a rule on D-PATH asking for not ag=
gregating routes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">if they have a different D-PATH value. However, the =
draft must not talk about<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">other attributes (this is out of scope of the work).=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">5.&nbsp; Route Selection Process between EVPN and ot=
her ISF SAFIs<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;For a given prefix advertised in o=
ne or more non-EVPN ISF routes, the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP best path selection procedure will =
produce a set of &quot;non-EVPN<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; best paths&quot;.&nbsp; For a given pre=
fix advertised in one or more EVPN ISF<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; routes, the BGP best path selection pro=
cedure will produce a set of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;EVPN best paths&quot;.&nbsp; To s=
upport IP/EVPN interworking, it is then<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; necessary to run a tie-breaking selecti=
on algorithm on the union of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; these two sets.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comment:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The above sentence does not convey the context in wh=
ich the best path is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">calculated. Do you mean the following.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; For a given prefix present in one or more ISF=
 routes, the BGP best path is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; first run in the respective ISF SAFI and then=
 again on the union of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; ISF SAFI best paths in the IP-VRF context.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">5.&nbsp; Route Selection Process between EVPN and ot=
her ISF SAFIs<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;4- Steps 1-3 could possibly leave =
Equal Cost Multi-Path (ECMP)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; between IP and EVPN p=
aths.&nbsp; By default, the EVPN path is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; considered (and the I=
P path removed from consideration).&nbsp; However,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if ECMP across ISF SA=
FIs is enabled by policy, and an &quot;IP path&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and an &quot;EVPN pat=
h&quot; remain at the end of step 3, both path types<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; will be used.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comment:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Referring to non-EVPN paths as IP paths is confusing=
 since EVPN path is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">also an IP path<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">7.&nbsp; Gateway PE Procedures<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The gateway PE procedures are desc=
ribed as follows:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;o&nbsp; A gateway PE that imports =
an ISF SAFI-x route to prefix P in an<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IP-VRF, MUST export P=
 in ISF SAFI-y if:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1.&nbsp; P is in=
stalled in the IP-VRF (hence the SAFI-x route is the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; best one for P) and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2.&nbsp; PE has =
a BGP peer for SAFI-y (enabled for the same IP-VRF) and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;3.&nbsp; Either =
x or y is EVPN<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comment:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This above text is unclear and possibly wrong on a c=
ouple of points:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- 1. SAFI-x route is the BGP best path for P and<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- The last point brings some ambiguity. As SAFI 1 is=
 considered as an ISF SAFI,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; you have to consider all combinations of ISF =
at the gateway, not only<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; EVPN &lt;-&gt; something else. The current te=
xt could be interpreted in a way that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; SAFI 1 &lt;-&gt; SAFI 128 route export is bro=
ken and it must not.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_BYAPR11MB255272A5485B28A8A9875DDAA8E10BYAPR11MB2552namp_--


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> On 11 Nov 2020, at 16:32, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net> =
wrote:
>=20
> Zzh> I see what you mean. Perhaps we can separate the one-octet =
=E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D from the existing IP =E2=80=9CNext =
Header=E2=80=9D space so that the first nibble is always 0000? That =
gives us 16 types of =E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 or we only =
need to make sure the nibble is not 4 or 6 =E2=80=93 that gives us more =
types.
>=20
>=20


You should use 0000.

This is the IP version number space. 4 and 6 are taken as IP. BIER sits =
on 3, PWs sit on 0 and 1 (for OAM), and of course there is a chance that =
INT might like invent another IP at some time in the future (a general =
note and nothing to do with NewIP).

Now what I am not sure about is why you need a next header as this is =
not needed elsewhere in MPLS PWs. If you do, then I would suggest that =
16 is likely too few.

The standard MPLS method is to trigger processing from the label, so if =
you want to do other processing then why not allocate a new label so you =
can vector straight to the right packet handler.

What I think you need is the existing PW frag design with the =
identification field appended. Then to advertise those propertied with =
the label.

- Stewart




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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On 11 Nov 2020, at 16:32, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" class=3D"">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;">Zzh&gt; I see what you mean. Perhaps we can =
separate the one-octet =E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D from the existing =
IP =E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D space so that the first nibble is =
always 0000? That gives us 16 types of =E2=80=9CNext Header=E2=80=9D =E2=80=
=93 or we only need to make sure the nibble is not 4 or 6 =E2=80=93 that =
gives us more types.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">You =
should use 0000.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">This is the IP version number space. 4 and 6 are taken as IP. =
BIER sits on 3, PWs sit on 0 and 1 (for OAM), and of course there is a =
chance that INT might like invent another IP at some time in the future =
(a general note and nothing to do with NewIP).</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Now what I am not sure about is why you =
need a next header as this is not needed elsewhere in MPLS PWs. If you =
do, then I would suggest that 16 is likely too few.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The standard MPLS method =
is to trigger processing from the label, so if you want to do other =
processing then why not allocate a new label so you can vector straight =
to the right packet handler.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">What I think you need is the existing =
PW frag design with the identification field appended. Then to advertise =
those propertied with the label.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">- Stewart</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Luc Andre:

=20

I=E2=80=99m pleased to see your issue of tie-breaking that pushes for =
specific order and definitions in the DF election.  I also would suggest =
you have a mandated algorithm and define whether policy change this =
mandatory algorithm.  =20

=20

Since you are in the middle of defining the revised algorithm, I will =
await until you and the authors agree on some changes.  =20

=20

Sue Hares=20

=20

=20

From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Luc Andr=C3=A9 =
Burdet
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:05 PM
To: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View); slitkows.ietf@gmail.com
Cc: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org; bess-chairs@ietf.org; =
bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] Shepherd's Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df

=20

Hi St=C3=A9phane, Jorge,

=20

On the issue of tie-breaking, I would agree with St=C3=A9phane.

=20

It is too easy for peering PEs to be misconfigured / in disagreement as =
to Hi or Lo and this should be signaled if at least in an error =
reporting capacity.=20

=20

I would propose to go even further. This DF Election algorithm compares =
fields in a given order:

*	Field 1: Preference Weight
*	Field 2: IP Address Tie-break if Field1 is a tie, and hope all PEs use =
same Hi or Lo.

=20

The algorithm could be made very generic in terms of tie break and =
provide for a cascading order or skipping a field entirely:

*	Field 1: Preference Weight

*	Optional Tie-break Method X: IP Address Field, Highest-IP
*	Optional Tie-break Method Y: IP Address Field, Lowest-IP
*	Optional Tie-break Method Z: Local-Policy ( see section 4.1(g) )

=20

We could potentially mandate at least one MUST be provided and signaled =
incl order of resolving tie-break?=20

=20

Basically my point is that IP is unique but also an arbitrary Field to =
use, many more could be better suited for tie-break d=C3=A9p. use-case.  =
There are practical examples where local policies will affect weight but =
perhaps that local-policy itself serves as a tie-break.

=20

=20

One could split the Reserved field of section 3 into 2 nibbles: =
Tie-break-1, Tie-break-2 for mismatch detection, and this draft defines =
"well-known values" IP-Hi=3D0 and IP-Lo=3D1 (leaving all others to =
implementation-specific values (non-assigned) and ONLY for error =
detection.




Luc Andr=C3=A9 Burdet |  <mailto:laburdet.ietf@gmail.com> =
laburdet.ietf@gmail.com | +1 613 254 48 14

.:|:.:|:. Cisco Systems Canada Inc.

=20

=20

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 1:25 AM Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) =
<jorge.rabadan@nokia.com> wrote:

Hi Stephane,

=20

Please see in-line with [jorge2].

Thank you!

Jorge

=20

From: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, August 31, 2020 at 11:49 AM
To: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, =
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org =
<draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org>, bess-chairs@ietf.org =
<bess-chairs@ietf.org>, bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Shepherd's Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df

Hi Jorge,

=20

Please find additional feedback inline.

(Stripping things we agree on)

=20

Stephane

=20

=20

From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) =
<jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>=20
Sent: vendredi 19 juin 2020 20:37
To: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org; =
bess-chairs@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Shepherd's Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df

=20

Hi Stephane,

=20

Thanks for the review and my apologies for the delay.

We just posted a new revision.

=20

As usual, very good points. Please see in-line.

=20

Thx

Jorge=20

=20

From: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 at 3:20 PM
To: "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org>, 'BESS' <bess@ietf.org>
Cc: "bess-chairs@ietf.org" <bess-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Shepherd's Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, <senthil.sathappan@nokia.com>, =
<prz@juniper.net>, <wlin@juniper.net>, <jdrake@juniper.net>, =
<sajassi@cisco.com>, <satyamoh@cisco.com>
Resent-Date: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 at 3:20 PM

=20

=20

=20

Section 4.1:

        =E2=80=9C Note that, by default, the Highest-Preference is =
chosen for each

       ES or vES, however the ES configuration can be changed to the

       Lowest-Preference algorithm as long as this option is consistent

       in all the PEs in the ES.

I don=E2=80=99t think it is a good idea to open this modification. =
People can play with preference values to achieve the required behavior =
while always keeping high pref.

We have no way to ensure consistency, except if we advertise the =
behavior as part of the exct. Consistency of DF election is key and =
needs to be ensured as much as we can.

[Jorge] the idea is have the highest preference as default (maybe use =
normative language?), which means that it will work fine. Opening to =
lowest is to give more flexibility, knowing that if the user has to =
change the config from the default, they will do it in all the PEs of =
the ES.

=20

[SLI] I don=E2=80=99t think this is a good idea, consistency is really =
important, if you absolutely want to do both lowest and highest, you can =
allocate a new DF Alg for lowest so we ensure that everybody uses the =
same algorithm. But I don=E2=80=99t think this is necessary, having =
highest preference is enough. I don=E2=80=99t remember any feature using =
a preference that can do both highest and lowest, it is usually one or =
the other.

=20

=20

[Jorge2] ok, we can leave just the highest-preference in section 4.1. =
We=E2=80=99ll fix it in the next revision. Note that in 4.2 we still =
need to have highest and lowest pref per ethernet tag range to make sure =
there is load balancing.

=20

=20

=20

=20
=20
=E2=80=9CWhen PE3's vES2 comes back up, PE3 will start a boot-timer (if
       booting up) or hold-timer (if the port or EVC recovers).  That
       timer will allow some time for PE3 to receive the ES routes from
       PE1 and PE2. =C2=BB
=20
Are you changing the way the DF election works ? Usually, PE advertises =
its route and then wait to receive other routes.
[Jorge] those timers are on top of the FSM defined in RFC8584, e.g. we =
need to give some extra time before the ES goes up and we advertise the =
ES route, if the ES is configured with the DP capability. This is =
because the advertised preference and DP values may not be the same as =
the configured ones, and the =E2=80=98in-use=E2=80=99 values will depend =
on the other ES routes in the ES. If we advertise the ES route =
immediately after the ES is up, we may not have received the other ES =
routes and we don=E2=80=99t know what =E2=80=9Cin-use=E2=80=9D values to =
advertise in order to avoid preemption in the ES. I added some text on =
point 5 (section 4.3).
=20
=20
[SLI] As we are updating the FSM, could we have new state and events =
defined to update the FSM similarly as we have in RFC8584 ?

[jorge2] not sure if we should update the FSM, the reason being that =
those hold timers are generic for any redundancy mechanism, to avoid =
attracting traffic from the access before the core IGP/BGP are up and =
have all the required routes available. Some implementations use fixed =
timers, others configurable timers, others watch when the IGP/BGP come =
up and leave an additional delta. I thought the current text is generic =
enough to allow all those implementations.

=20
=20
What happens if all PEs on the ES are failing at the same time or the ES =
booting up on all the PEs at the same time ? you have no way to hear =
what is the pref from the remote.
[Jorge] The non-revertive capability makes sense when there is at least =
one PE alive in the ES and we don=E2=80=99t want to preempt it so that =
there is no traffic impact. If all the PEs fail, there is traffic impact =
anyway, so there is really no non-revertive behavior, but an =
initialization in all the PEs.
=20
[SLI] Let=E2=80=99s say that you have a CE attached to 3 PEs (same ESI). =
PE1 pref 100, PE2 pref 200, PE3 pref 300. PE1 to 3 are configured with =
DP set. PE4 is a remote PE.
T0:CE fails and boots up.
T1:PE1 to PE3 starts their HOLD_TIMER
T2: PE1 HOLD_TIMER expires,  advertises ES route and starts DF_TIMER
T3: PE4 discovers ES from PE1 and starts DF_TIMER

[jorge2] I assume you mean PE3 here.

T4: PE2 HOLD_TIMER expires,  advertises ES route and starts DF_TIMER, =
does it advertises with Pref100 and DP=3D0 as it knows from PE1 route =
even if PE1 is not DF yet ?

[jorge2] this is an example in which all PEs are =
=E2=80=98initializing=E2=80=99 at the same time, so there is traffic =
impact anyway because the CE reboots. So it would be more like an =
initialization example. Nevertheless, PE2 in this case should advertise =
the ES route with in-use pref 100 and DP=3D0.

=20
=20

=20

Brgds,

=20

Stephane

=20

_______________________________________________
BESS mailing list
BESS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Luc Andre:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I=E2=80=99m pleased to see your issue of tie-breaking that pushes for =
specific order and definitions in the DF election. =C2=A0I also would =
suggest you have a mandated algorithm and define whether policy change =
this mandatory algorithm.=C2=A0 =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Since you are in the middle of defining the revised algorithm, I will =
await until you and the authors agree on some changes.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Luc Andr=C3=A9 =
Burdet<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:05 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View); =
slitkows.ietf@gmail.com<br><b>Cc:</b> =
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org; bess-chairs@ietf.org; =
bess@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] Shepherd's Review of =
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
St=C3=A9phane, Jorge,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>On the issue of =
tie-breaking,&nbsp;I would agree with =
St=C3=A9phane.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>It is too easy for peering =
PEs to be misconfigured / in disagreement as to Hi or Lo and this should =
be signaled if at least in an error reporting capacity. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
would propose to go even further. This DF Election algorithm compares =
fields in a given order:</span><o:p></o:p></p><ul =
style=3D'margin-top:0in' type=3Ddisc><li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Field 1: Preference =
Weight</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Field 2: =
IP Address Tie-break if Field1 is a tie, and hope all PEs use same Hi or =
Lo.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The =
algorithm could be made very generic in terms of tie break and provide =
for a cascading order or skipping a field =
entirely:</span><o:p></o:p></p><ul style=3D'margin-top:0in' =
type=3Ddisc><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l2 level1 =
lfo2'><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Field 1: =
Preference Weight</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul><ul =
style=3D'margin-top:0in' type=3Ddisc><li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Optional Tie-break Method X: =
IP Address Field, Highest-IP</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Optional Tie-break Method Y: =
IP Address Field, Lowest-IP</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Optional Tie-break Method Z: =
Local-Policy ( see section 4.1(g) )</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We could potentially mandate =
at least one MUST be provided and signaled incl order of resolving =
tie-break?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Basically my point is that IP =
is unique but also an arbitrary Field to use, many more <b>could</b> be =
better suited for tie-break d=C3=A9p. use-case.&nbsp;&nbsp;There are =
practical examples where <b>local policies</b> will affect weight but =
perhaps that <i>local-policy itself serves as a =
tie-break</i>.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>One could split the Reserved =
field of section 3 into 2 nibbles: Tie-break-1, Tie-break-2 for mismatch =
detection, and this draft defines &quot;well-known values&quot; =
IP-Hi=3D0 and IP-Lo=3D1 (leaving all others to implementation-specific =
values (non-assigned) and ONLY for error =
detection.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br =
clear=3Dall><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>Luc Andr=C3=A9 Burdet |&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"mailto:laburdet.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;color:#954F72'>laburdet.ietf@gmail.com</span></a=
>&nbsp;|&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>+1 613 254 48 =
14</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>.:|:.:|:.&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Cisco Systems Canada =
Inc.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 1:25 AM Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Hi =
Stephane,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Please see in-line with =
[jorge2].</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Thank =
you!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Jorge</span><o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><=
b><span style=3D'color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'color:black'><a href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: =
</b>Monday, August 31, 2020 at 11:49 AM<br><b>To: </b>Rabadan, Jorge =
(Nokia - US/Mountain View) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com" =
target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt;, <a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org</a>&gt;, <a =
href=3D"mailto:bess-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">bess-chairs@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bess-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">bess-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;, <a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
Shepherd's Review of =
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Hi Jorge,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Please find additional feedback inline.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>(Stripping things we agree on)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Stephane<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b>From:</b> Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com" =
target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> =
vendredi 19 juin 2020 20:37<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:bess-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">bess-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Shepherd's =
Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Hi =
Stephane,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Thanks for =
the review and my apologies for the delay.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>We just =
posted a new revision.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>As usual, =
very good points. Please see in-line.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Thx</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Jorge =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
.0in'><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">slitkows.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: =
</b>Wednesday, February 26, 2020 at 3:20 PM<br><b>To: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df@ietf.org</a>&gt;, 'BESS' =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bess-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">bess-chairs@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bess-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">bess-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>Shepherd's Review of draft-ietf-bess-evpn-pref-df<br><b>Resent-From: =
</b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">alias-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Resent-To: =
</b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com" =
target=3D"_blank">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:senthil.sathappan@nokia.com" =
target=3D"_blank">senthil.sathappan@nokia.com</a>&gt;, &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" =
target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;, &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wlin@juniper.net" =
target=3D"_blank">wlin@juniper.net</a>&gt;, &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" =
target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;, &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank">sajassi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:satyamoh@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank">satyamoh@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Resent-Date: =
</b>Wednesday, February 26, 2020 at 3:20 =
PM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
.0in'>Section 4.1:<o:p></o:p></p><div style=3D'border:solid #CCCCCC =
1.0pt;padding:8.0pt 8.0pt 8.0pt 8.0pt'><pre =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.9pt;marg=
in-left:1.0in;background:#FFFDF5;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
=E2=80=9C </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Note that, =
by default, the Highest-Preference is chosen for =
each</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:7.9pt;margin-left:1.0in;ba=
ckground:#FFFDF5;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ES or vES, =
however the ES configuration can be changed to =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:7.9pt;margin-left:1.0in;ba=
ckground:#FFFDF5;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lowest-Preference =
algorithm as long as this option is consistent</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:7.9pt;margin-left:1.0in;ba=
ckground:#FFFDF5;word-break:break-all'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; in all the PEs in =
the ES.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
.0in'>I don=E2=80=99t think it is a good idea to open this modification. =
People can play with preference values to achieve the required behavior =
while always keeping high pref.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
.0in'>We have no way to ensure consistency, except if we advertise the =
behavior as part of the exct. Consistency of DF election is key and =
needs to be ensured as much as we can.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>[Jorge] =
the idea is have the highest preference as default (maybe use normative =
language?), which means that it will work fine. Opening to lowest is to =
give more flexibility, knowing that if the user has to change the config =
from the default, they will do it in all the PEs of the =
ES.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b>&nbsp;</b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>[SLI] I don=E2=80=99t think this is a good idea, consistency is =
really important, if you absolutely want to do both lowest and highest, =
you can allocate a new DF Alg for lowest so we ensure that everybody =
uses the same algorithm. But I don=E2=80=99t think this is necessary, =
having highest preference is enough. I don=E2=80=99t remember any =
feature using a preference that can do both highest and lowest, it is =
usually one or the other.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:red'>&nbsp;</span><o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span></b><o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:red'>[Jorge2] ok, =
we can leave just the highest-preference in section 4.1. We=E2=80=99ll =
fix it in the next revision. Note that in 4.2 we still need to have =
highest and lowest pref per ethernet tag range to make sure there is =
load balancing.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>=E2=80=9C<span style=3D'color:black'>When =
PE3's vES2 comes back up, PE3 will start a boot-timer =
(if</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; booting up) =
or hold-timer (if the port or EVC recovers).&nbsp; =
That</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; timer will =
allow some time for PE3 to receive the ES routes =
from</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PE1 and =
PE2.&nbsp;=C2=BB</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>Are you changing =
the way the DF election works ? Usually, PE advertises its route and =
then wait to receive other routes.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>[Jorge] those timers are =
on top of the FSM defined in RFC8584, e.g. we need to give some extra =
time before the ES goes up and we advertise the ES route, if the ES is =
configured with the DP capability. This is because the advertised =
preference and DP values may not be the same as the configured ones, and =
the =E2=80=98in-use=E2=80=99 values will depend on the other ES routes =
in the ES. If we advertise the ES route immediately after the ES is up, =
we may not have received the other ES routes and we don=E2=80=99t know =
what =E2=80=9Cin-use=E2=80=9D values to advertise in order to avoid =
preemption in the ES. I added some text on point 5 (section =
4.3).</span></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>[SLI] As =
we are updating the FSM, could we have new state and events defined to =
update the FSM similarly as we have in RFC8584 =
?</span></b><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:red'>[jorge2] not =
sure if we should update the FSM, the reason being that those hold =
timers are generic for any redundancy mechanism, to avoid attracting =
traffic from the access before the core IGP/BGP are up and have all the =
required routes available. Some implementations use fixed timers, others =
configurable timers, others watch when the IGP/BGP come up and leave an =
additional delta. I thought the current text is generic enough to allow =
all those implementations.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span></b><o:p></o=
:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>What happens if all PEs on the ES are failing at =
the same time or the ES booting up on all the PEs at the same time ? you =
have no way to hear what is the pref from the =
remote.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>[Jorge] The =
non-revertive capability makes sense when there is at least one PE alive =
in the ES and we don=E2=80=99t want to preempt it so that there is no =
traffic impact. If all the PEs fail, there is traffic impact anyway, so =
there is really no non-revertive behavior, but an initialization in all =
the PEs.</span></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>[SLI] =
Let=E2=80=99s say that you have a CE attached to 3 PEs (same ESI). PE1 =
pref 100, PE2 pref 200, PE3 pref 300. PE1 to 3 are configured with DP =
set. PE4 is a remote PE.</span></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>T0:CE =
fails and boots up.</span></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>T1:PE1 to =
PE3 starts their HOLD_TIMER</span></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>T2: PE1 =
HOLD_TIMER expires, &nbsp;advertises ES route and starts =
DF_TIMER</span></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>T3: PE4 =
discovers ES from PE1 and starts DF_TIMER</span></b><o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:red'>[jorge2] I =
assume you mean PE3 here.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>T4: PE2 =
HOLD_TIMER expires, &nbsp;advertises ES route and starts DF_TIMER, does =
it advertises with Pref100 and DP=3D0 as it knows from PE1 route even if =
PE1 is not DF yet ?</span></b><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:red'>[jorge2] this =
is an example in which all PEs are =E2=80=98initializing=E2=80=99 at the =
same time, so there is traffic impact anyway because the CE reboots. So =
it would be more like an initialization example. Nevertheless, PE2 in =
this case should advertise the ES route with in-use pref 100 and =
DP=3D0.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
.0in'>Brgds,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
.0in'>Stephane<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>BESS=
 mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><o:p></o:=
p></p></blockquote></div></div></body></html>
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Dear BESS,

I have updated the draft adding a Juniper point of contact "Lili Wang" as
co-author to the draft to support the vendor interoperability testing.

We now have a point of contact for Cisco & Juniper and  soon to be added
contact for Arista & Nokia-ALU.  We have good news to report that at this
time so far  3 out of 5 vendors  Cisco, Juniper & Nokia/ALU do support the
PE-CE eBGP RFC 5549 IPv6 next hop encoding to carry IPv4 NLRI.

Appendix A <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-u=
se-cases-07#appendix-A>.
IPv4 NLRI IPv6 Next Hop Vendor Testing

   IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop encoding is supported for all BGP peers
   both iBGP and eBGP.

   This section details the vendor support of RFC5549
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5549> "PE-RR iBGP", "PE-
   CE eBGP" using GUA (Global Unicast Address), Link Local (LL) peering
   and Quality Assurance lab testing.  This drafts goal is to ensure
   that all features and functionality works with "eBGP PE-CE" use case
   single peer carrying both IPv4 NLRI and IPv6 NLRI and that the
   routing policy features are all still fully functionality do not
   change.
A.1 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-case=
s-07#appendix-A.1>.
Router and Switch Vendors Support and Quality Assurance
      Engineering Lab Results.

   +-----------+------------+--------------+---------------+-----------+
   | Vendor    | PE-RR iBGP |  PE-CE eBGP  | PE-CE eBGP LL | QA Tested |
   |           |            |     GUI      |               |           |
   +-----------+------------+--------------+---------------+-----------+
   | Cisco     |    ***     |     ***      |               |           |
   | Juniper   |    ***     |     ***      |               |           |
   | Nokia/ALU |    ***     |     ***      |               |           |
   | Arista    |            |              |               |           |
   | Huawei    |            |              |               |           |
   +-----------+------------+--------------+---------------+-----------+

                          Table 1: Vendor Support
A.2 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-case=
s-07#appendix-A.2>.
Router and Switch Vendors Interoperability Lab Results.

   This section details the vendor interoperability testing and support
   of RFC5549 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5549> that all features
and functionality works with "eBGP PE-
   CE" use case with having a single peer carrying both IPv4 NLRI and
   IPv6 NLRI and that the routing policy features are fully tested for
   quality assurance.

       +-----------+-------+---------+-----------+--------+--------+
       | Vendor    | Cisco | Juniper | Nokia/ALU | Arista | Huawei |
       +-----------+-------+---------+-----------+--------+--------+
       | Cisco     |       |         |           |        |        |
       | Juniper   |       |         |           |        |        |
       | Nokia/ALU |       |         |           |        |        |
       | Arista    |       |         |           |        |        |
       | Huawei    |       |         |           |        |        |
       +-----------+-------+---------+-----------+--------+--------+

                          Table 2: Vendor Interop


**Motivation for the draft**

This draft utilizes RFC 5549 next hop updated encoding draft update that is
used today for 4to6 Softwire mesh framework PE-P RR next hop encoding for
eBGP PE-CE peering where the IPv4 AFI 1/1  is stacked ontop of IPv6 AFI
2/1, thus eliminating the need for dual stacking PE-CE edge.  As stated
that RFC 5549 next hop encoding is predominantly used for PE-RR next hop
encoding for SAFI's stacked on IPv6 peer including VPN-IPv4 1/128 and MVPN
1/129.  This draft draws attention to the critical OPEX savings as well as
ensuring that all vendors support RFC 5549 encoding for eBGP PE-CE IPv6
next hop encoding for IPv4 NLRI to ensure the next hop is encoded correctly
per Stephane's updated RFC5549 draft which is almost ready for publication.

We have confirmed with Stepahanie that the RFC 5549 next hop encoding
updated draft works for any BGP peering carrying IPv4 NLRI over IPv6 next
hop so is agnostic of BGP internal versus external peering.

This draft ensures through vendor interoperability testing that the vendor
consortium represented on the IETF supports RFC 5549 next hop encoding for
this particular use case for carrying IPv4 NLRI over an IPv6 next hop in
the PE-CE eBGP peering scenario.  This use case is widespread across any
and all operator networks service providers and enterprises for both "core"
& "data center" and is relevant to any underlay IPv4, IPv6, MPLS, SR-MPLS,
SRv6 as the PE-CE customer edge is the same, but now with this draft there
is no longer dual stacked the edge which now can be "IPv6 Only".   This use
case with IPv4 elimination at the PE-CE edge helps tremendously with
proliferation of IPv6 and makes the entire core / edge now 100% IPv6
transport that can carry both IPv4 & IPv6 payload service overlay label.
This pushes IPv4 to the customer network only in the VPN overlay
encapsulation layer and keeps the transport underlay layer IPv4 Free.

With IPv4 address depletion issues with provisioning especially at large
IXP NAPs, this draft has worldwide benefits for internet service providers
so IPv4 can be 100% eliminated at the  internet transport layer.

Kind Regards

Gyan


---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mishra, Gyan S <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 2:56 AM
Subject: Fwd: [E] New Version Notification for
draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-07.txt
To: Hayabusanew <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>




---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 2:54 AM
Subject: [E] New Version Notification for
draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-07.txt
To: Gyan Mishra <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>, Mankamana Mishra <
mankamis@cisco.com>, Lili Wang <liliw@juniper.net>, Jeff Tantsura <
jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-07.txt
has been successfully submitted by Gyan Mishra and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases
Revision:       07
Title:          IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop Use Cases
Document date:  2020-11-18
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          17
URL:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_archive=
_id_draft-2Dmishra-2Dbess-2Dipv4nlri-2Dipv6nh-2Duse-2Dcases-2D07.txt&d=3DDw=
ICaQ&c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&r=3DDnUkF34wu4mqq0UY8n=
n2rxBBO7qOW_D-RfNVLML28ZU&m=3DW0oJ8rJFiz621ORe1GObdWqIeTijDwQDa9ByheMqSvA&s=
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Status:
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Abstract:
   As Enterprises and Service Providers upgrade their brown field or
   green field MPLS/SR core to an IPv6 transport such as MPLS LDPv6, SR-
   MPLSv6 or SRv6, Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP)now plays an important role
   in the transition of the core from IPv4 to IPv6 being able to
   continue to support legacy IPv4, VPN-IPv4, and Multicast VPN IPv4
   customers.

   This document describes the critical use case and OPEX savings of
   being able to leverage the MP-BGP capability exchange usage as a pure
   transport allowing both IPv4 and IPv6 to be carried over the same BGP
   TCP session.  By doing so, allows for the elimination of Dual
   Stacking on the PE-CE connections making the peering IPv6-ONLY to now
   carry both IPv4 and IPv6 Network Layer Reachability Information
   (NLRI).  This document now provides a solution for IXPs (Internet
   Exchange points) that are facing IPv4 address depletion at these
   peering points to use BGP-MP capability exchange defined in [RFC5549]
   to carry IPv4 (Network Layer Reachability Information) NLRI in an
   IPv6 next hop using the [RFC5565] softwire mesh framework.




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The IETF Secretariat




--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect & SME*


*Data Center Planning | Common Core | Development & Engineering Lab
ServicesGlobal Technology Services | ITNUC*




*O 240 970-6287M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike Rm 304-D*Silver Spring, MD
20904


*IETF  & ISOC Member since 2015*

https://www.ietf.org/

https://www.internetsociety.org/




--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--0000000000004b571b05b471526b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>Dear BESS,</div><div><br></div><div>I =
have updated the draft adding a Juniper point of contact &quot;Lili Wang&qu=
ot; as co-author to the draft to support the vendor interoperability testin=
g.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>We now have a point of contact for =
Cisco &amp; Juniper and=C2=A0 soon to be added contact for Arista &amp; Nok=
ia-ALU.=C2=A0 We have good news to report that at this time so far=C2=A0 3 =
out of 5 vendors=C2=A0 Cisco, Juniper &amp; Nokia/ALU do support the PE-CE =
eBGP RFC 5549 IPv6 next hop encoding to carry IPv4 NLRI.</div><div><br></di=
v><div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class=3D"g=
mail-h2" style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em;font-weight:bold"><h2 style=
=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em"><a class=3D"gmail-selflink" name=3D"appen=
dix-A" href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6n=
h-use-cases-07#appendix-A" style=3D"color:black;text-decoration-line:none">=
Appendix A</a>.  IPv4 NLRI IPv6 Next Hop Vendor Testing</h2></span>

   IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop encoding is supported for all BGP peers
   both iBGP and eBGP.

   This section details the vendor support of <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/rfc5549">RFC5549</a> &quot;PE-RR iBGP&quot;, &quot;PE-
   CE eBGP&quot; using GUA (Global Unicast Address), Link Local (LL) peerin=
g
   and Quality Assurance lab testing.  This drafts goal is to ensure
   that all features and functionality works with &quot;eBGP PE-CE&quot; us=
e case
   single peer carrying both IPv4 NLRI and IPv6 NLRI and that the
   routing policy features are all still fully functionality do not
   change.

<span class=3D"gmail-h3" style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em;font-weight:=
bold"><h3 style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em"><a class=3D"gmail-selflink=
" name=3D"appendix-A.1" href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mishra-be=
ss-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-07#appendix-A.1" style=3D"color:black;text-dec=
oration-line:none">A.1</a>.  Router and Switch Vendors Support and Quality =
Assurance</h3></span>
      Engineering Lab Results.

   +-----------+------------+--------------+---------------+-----------+
   | Vendor    | PE-RR iBGP |  PE-CE eBGP  | PE-CE eBGP LL | QA Tested |
   |           |            |     GUI      |               |           |
   +-----------+------------+--------------+---------------+-----------+
   | Cisco     |    ***     |     ***      |               |           |
   | Juniper   |    ***     |     ***      |               |           |
   | Nokia/ALU |    ***     |     ***      |               |           |
   | Arista    |            |              |               |           |
   | Huawei    |            |              |               |           |
   +-----------+------------+--------------+---------------+-----------+

                          Table 1: Vendor Support

<span class=3D"gmail-h3" style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em;font-weight:=
bold"><h3 style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em"><a class=3D"gmail-selflink=
" name=3D"appendix-A.2" href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mishra-be=
ss-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-07#appendix-A.2" style=3D"color:black;text-dec=
oration-line:none">A.2</a>.  Router and Switch Vendors Interoperability Lab=
 Results.</h3></span>

   This section details the vendor interoperability testing and support
   of <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5549">RFC5549</a> that all =
features and functionality works with &quot;eBGP PE-
   CE&quot; use case with having a single peer carrying both IPv4 NLRI and
   IPv6 NLRI and that the routing policy features are fully tested for
   quality assurance.

       +-----------+-------+---------+-----------+--------+--------+
       | Vendor    | Cisco | Juniper | Nokia/ALU | Arista | Huawei |
       +-----------+-------+---------+-----------+--------+--------+
       | Cisco     |       |         |           |        |        |
       | Juniper   |       |         |           |        |        |
       | Nokia/ALU |       |         |           |        |        |
       | Arista    |       |         |           |        |        |
       | Huawei    |       |         |           |        |        |
       +-----------+-------+---------+-----------+--------+--------+

                          Table 2: Vendor Interop
</pre><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div><div>**Motivation=
 for the draft**</div><div><br></div><div><div>This draft utilizes RFC 5549=
 next hop updated encoding draft update that is used today for 4to6 Softwir=
e mesh framework PE-P RR next hop encoding for eBGP PE-CE peering where the=
 IPv4 AFI 1/1=C2=A0 is stacked ontop of IPv6 AFI 2/1, thus eliminating the =
need for dual stacking PE-CE edge.=C2=A0 As stated that RFC 5549 next hop e=
ncoding is predominantly used for PE-RR next hop encoding for SAFI&#39;s st=
acked on IPv6 peer including VPN-IPv4 1/128 and MVPN 1/129.=C2=A0 This draf=
t draws attention to the critical OPEX savings as well as ensuring that all=
 vendors support RFC 5549 encoding for eBGP PE-CE IPv6 next hop encoding fo=
r IPv4 NLRI to ensure the next hop is encoded correctly per Stephane&#39;s =
updated RFC5549 draft which is almost ready for publication.=C2=A0</div><di=
v><br></div><div>We have confirmed with Stepahanie that the RFC 5549 next h=
op encoding updated draft works for any BGP peering carrying IPv4 NLRI over=
 IPv6 next hop so is agnostic of BGP internal versus external peering.=C2=
=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>This draft ensures through vendor intero=
perability testing that the vendor consortium represented on the IETF suppo=
rts RFC 5549 next hop encoding for this particular use case for carrying IP=
v4 NLRI over an IPv6 next hop in the PE-CE eBGP peering scenario.=C2=A0 Thi=
s use case is widespread across any and all operator networks service provi=
ders and enterprises for both &quot;core&quot; &amp; &quot;data center&quot=
; and is relevant to any underlay IPv4, IPv6, MPLS, SR-MPLS, SRv6 as the PE=
-CE customer edge is the same, but now with this draft there is no longer d=
ual stacked the edge which now can be &quot;IPv6 Only&quot;.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Th=
is use case with IPv4 elimination at the PE-CE edge helps tremendously with=
 proliferation of IPv6 and makes the entire core / edge now 100% IPv6 trans=
port that can carry both IPv4 &amp; IPv6 payload service overlay label.=C2=
=A0 This pushes IPv4 to the customer network only in the VPN overlay encaps=
ulation layer and keeps the transport underlay layer IPv4 Free.=C2=A0=C2=A0=
</div><div><br></div><div>With IPv4 address depletion issues with provision=
ing especially at large IXP NAPs, this draft has worldwide benefits for int=
ernet service providers so IPv4 can be 100% eliminated at the=C2=A0 interne=
t transport layer.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Kind Regards</div></div><=
div><br></div><div>Gyan</div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: =
<strong class=3D"gmail_sendername" dir=3D"auto">Mishra, Gyan S</strong> <sp=
an dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com">gyan.s.mis=
hra@verizon.com</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 2:56 AM<br>Sub=
ject: Fwd: [E] New Version Notification for draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6=
nh-use-cases-07.txt<br>To: Hayabusanew &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gm=
ail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- =
Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>=
&gt;</span><br>Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 2:54 AM<br>Subject: [E] New Versi=
on Notification for draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-07.txt<br>T=
o: Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com" target=3D"_=
blank">gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com</a>&gt;, Mankamana Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:mankamis@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mankamis@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Lil=
i Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:liliw@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">liliw@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ipv6nh-use-cases-07.txt<br=
>
has been successfully submitted by Gyan Mishra and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mishra-bess-ipv4nlri-ip=
v6nh-use-cases<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A007<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IPv4 NLRI with IPv6 Next Hop Use C=
ases<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-11-18<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 17<br>
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<br>
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<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0As Enterprises and Service Providers upgrade their brown field=
 or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0green field MPLS/SR core to an IPv6 transport such as MPLS LDP=
v6, SR-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MPLSv6 or SRv6, Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP)now plays an importa=
nt role<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the transition of the core from IPv4 to IPv6 being able to<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0continue to support legacy IPv4, VPN-IPv4, and Multicast VPN I=
Pv4<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0customers.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes the critical use case and OPEX savings=
 of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0being able to leverage the MP-BGP capability exchange usage as=
 a pure<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0transport allowing both IPv4 and IPv6 to be carried over the s=
ame BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0TCP session.=C2=A0 By doing so, allows for the elimination of =
Dual<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Stacking on the PE-CE connections making the peering IPv6-ONLY=
 to now<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0carry both IPv4 and IPv6 Network Layer Reachability Informatio=
n<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(NLRI).=C2=A0 This document now provides a solution for IXPs (=
Internet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Exchange points) that are facing IPv4 address depletion at the=
se<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0peering points to use BGP-MP capability exchange defined in [R=
FC5549]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to carry IPv4 (Network Layer Reachability Information) NLRI in=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6 next hop using the [RFC5565] softwire mesh framework.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
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inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/Ver=
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quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b=
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13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>=
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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/W_RBniRRAZLOBbXHvLb_8znR1xQ>
Subject: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Hi,

It seems that the draft is about using data-plane mac learning in an EVPN-l=
ike solution. That retains other properties of EVPN, but removes the need f=
or advertising MAC addresses, with the consequences/problems that Ali was t=
rying to point out.

Leaving the pros and cons of data plane mac learning out, I want to point o=
ut that the idea is actually orthogonal with SR - even if SR were not inven=
ted this concept still applies. With VXLAN the source address corresponds t=
o the "source node SID", and with MPLS the "PE Distinguisher Label" in MVPN=
 (and extended to other use cases) serves the same purpose. That same "PE D=
istinguisher Label" concept is also used in my Generic Fragmentation propos=
al.

With that, the discussion for this draft should be in BESS, not in SPRING.

Jeffrey

Juniper Business Use Only


From nobody Thu Nov 19 05:09:22 2020
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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 13:09:15 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Hi everyone,

Jeffrey, not sure how much of EVPN this solution is, since there are no =91=
overlay=92 routes advertised. In fact the draft says that no routes type 1.=
.4 are needed at all.
But I see your point Jeffrey, and I agree the concept of the source identif=
ication is not SR specific.

@Sami,

I couldn=92t speak during the meeting so I=92ll throw a couple of general c=
omments/questions:


  1.  While I see the anycast-SID as an interesting point, I disagree with =
the document=92s motivation that EVPN needed to introduce control-plane lea=
rning due to the MP2P tunnels. Control plane learning has a lot of advantag=
es and data-plane learning/aging has tons of issues. So this should be deba=
ted in the WG.



  1.  Irrespective, the anycast-SID idea could work in regular EVPN as an o=
ptional alternative to aliasing. You don=92t need to do data-plane learning=
 for that, right?



  1.  The document seems to claim fast mac move. How can that be guaranteed=
 if the mac learning is data plane based?



  1.  ARP suppression is not a merit of this solution. It could work even i=
n RFC4761/74762 VPLS networks.



I have a few more, but those are enough to start.
Thank you!
Jorge


From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2020 at 12:46 PM
To: bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
Hi,

It seems that the draft is about using data-plane mac learning in an EVPN-l=
ike solution. That retains other properties of EVPN, but removes the need f=
or advertising MAC addresses, with the consequences/problems that Ali was t=
rying to point out.

Leaving the pros and cons of data plane mac learning out, I want to point o=
ut that the idea is actually orthogonal with SR - even if SR were not inven=
ted this concept still applies. With VXLAN the source address corresponds t=
o the "source node SID", and with MPLS the "PE Distinguisher Label" in MVPN=
 (and extended to other use cases) serves the same purpose. That same "PE D=
istinguisher Label" concept is also used in my Generic Fragmentation propos=
al.

With that, the discussion for this draft should be in BESS, not in SPRING.

Jeffrey

Juniper Business Use Only

_______________________________________________
BESS mailing list
BESS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Hi everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Jeffrey, not sure how much of EVPN this solution is, since there are no =
=91overlay=92 routes advertised. In fact the draft says that no routes type=
 1..4 are needed at all.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">But I see your point Jeffrey, and I agree the concept of the source ident=
ification is not SR specific.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">@Sami, <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">I couldn=92t speak during the meeting so I=92ll throw a couple of general=
 comments/questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">While I see the=
 anycast-SID as an interesting point, I disagree with the document=92s moti=
vation that EVPN needed to introduce control-plane
 learning due to the MP2P tunnels. Control plane learning has a lot of adva=
ntages and data-plane learning/aging has tons of issues. So this should be =
debated in the WG.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:C=
onsolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Irrespective, t=
he anycast-SID idea could work in regular EVPN as an optional alternative t=
o aliasing. You don=92t need to do data-plane
 learning for that, right?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:C=
onsolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">The document se=
ems to claim fast mac move. How can that be guaranteed if the mac learning =
is data plane based?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:C=
onsolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"4" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">ARP suppression=
 is not a merit of this solution. It could work even in RFC4761/74762 VPLS =
networks.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:C=
onsolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">I have a few more, but those are enough to start.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Thank you!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Jorge<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">BESS &lt;bess-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, November 19, 2020 at 12:46 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>bess@ietf.org &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Hi,<br>
<br>
It seems that the draft is about using data-plane mac learning in an EVPN-l=
ike solution. That retains other properties of EVPN, but removes the need f=
or advertising MAC addresses, with the consequences/problems that Ali was t=
rying to point out.<br>
<br>
Leaving the pros and cons of data plane mac learning out, I want to point o=
ut that the idea is actually orthogonal with SR - even if SR were not inven=
ted this concept still applies. With VXLAN the source address corresponds t=
o the &quot;source node SID&quot;, and with
 MPLS the &quot;PE Distinguisher Label&quot; in MVPN (and extended to other=
 use cases) serves the same purpose. That same &quot;PE Distinguisher Label=
&quot; concept is also used in my Generic Fragmentation proposal.<br>
<br>
With that, the discussion for this draft should be in BESS, not in SPRING.<=
br>
<br>
Jeffrey<br>
<br>
Juniper Business Use Only<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
BESS@ietf.org<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_MWHPR08MB3520BEB2DF4B838D11A7FEFFF7E00MWHPR08MB3520namp_--


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Hi Jeff,


> On Nov 19, 2020, at 3:46 AM, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang =
<zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> It seems that the draft is about using data-plane mac learning in an =
EVPN-like solution.


Actually the draft explicitly mention that we don=E2=80=99t need any =
EVPN routes, and not sure what EVPN-like solution you are referring too.

> That retains other properties of EVPN, but removes the need for =
advertising MAC addresses, with the consequences/problems that Ali was =
trying to point out.
>=20

It will be good that you point out those specific consequences/problems.

> Leaving the pros and cons of data plane mac learning out, I want to =
point out that the idea is actually orthogonal with SR - even if SR were =
not invented this concept still applies.

Agreed, but SR enabled the concept, via the ability to define SRGB for =
services across the network.

> With VXLAN the source address corresponds to the "source node SID", =
and with MPLS the "PE Distinguisher Label" in MVPN (and extended to =
other use cases) serves the same purpose. That same "PE Distinguisher =
Label" concept is also used in my Generic Fragmentation proposal.
>=20
> With that, the discussion for this draft should be in BESS, not in =
SPRING.
>=20

As I mentioned this is still about BGP enabled services, however we can =
still present this in SPRING.

Thanks,

Sami

> Jeffrey
>=20
> Juniper Business Use Only
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess


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Hi Jorge,


> On Nov 19, 2020, at 5:09 AM, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) =
<jorge.rabadan@nokia.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi everyone,
> =20
> Jeffrey, not sure how much of EVPN this solution is, since there are =
no =E2=80=98overlay=E2=80=99 routes advertised. In fact the draft says =
that no routes type 1..4 are needed at all.
> But I see your point Jeffrey, and I agree the concept of the source =
identification is not SR specific.

Agreed, source identification is not SR specific.

> =20
> @Sami,=20
> =20
> I couldn=E2=80=99t speak during the meeting so I=E2=80=99ll throw a =
couple of general comments/questions:
> =20
> While I see the anycast-SID as an interesting point, I disagree with =
the document=E2=80=99s motivation that EVPN needed to introduce =
control-plane learning due to the MP2P tunnels.

What I said is with MP2P tunnels EVPN was forced to only control plane =
Mac learning. Are you saying this is incorrect? If so, Why?

> Control plane learning has a lot of advantages and data-plane =
learning/aging has tons of issues. So this should be debated in the WG.

Sure, will be good to get Service providers input on that too. One thing =
to note here, our proposal is by no mean don=E2=80=99t use EVPN, it is =
simply another option that greatly simplify the control plane and remove =
tons of control plane overhead, as well simplify the data plane and =
remove need for any overlay convergence.

> =20
> Irrespective, the anycast-SID idea could work in regular EVPN as an =
optional alternative to aliasing. You don=E2=80=99t need to do =
data-plane learning for that, right?

Agreed, any technology can use any cast SID.

> The document seems to claim fast mac move. How can that be guaranteed =
if the mac learning is data plane based?

In data plane when a MAC move from one port to another, or one PW to =
another, routers simply adjust no need for any EVPN procedure for MAC =
move.

> =20
> ARP suppression is not a merit of this solution. It could work even in =
RFC4761/74762 VPLS networks.
> =20

Agreed, we don=E2=80=99t claim any of that, the proposal doesn=E2=80=99t =
claim that it invented ARP suppression, or invented SR, it simply say it =
will use it this way, I hope this is OK.

> =20

> I have a few more, but those are enough to start.

Thanks,

Sami
> Thank you!
> Jorge
> =20
> =20
> From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org>
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2020 at 12:46 PM
> To: bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>
> Subject: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> It seems that the draft is about using data-plane mac learning in an =
EVPN-like solution. That retains other properties of EVPN, but removes =
the need for advertising MAC addresses, with the consequences/problems =
that Ali was trying to point out.
>=20
> Leaving the pros and cons of data plane mac learning out, I want to =
point out that the idea is actually orthogonal with SR - even if SR were =
not invented this concept still applies. With VXLAN the source address =
corresponds to the "source node SID", and with MPLS the "PE =
Distinguisher Label" in MVPN (and extended to other use cases) serves =
the same purpose. That same "PE Distinguisher Label" concept is also =
used in my Generic Fragmentation proposal.
>=20
> With that, the discussion for this draft should be in BESS, not in =
SPRING.
>=20
> Jeffrey
>=20
> Juniper Business Use Only
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess>______________________________=
_________________
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<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess>

--Apple-Mail=_72131EEE-0D1B-458E-86C3-3F8490E488D9
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
Jorge,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov 19, 2020, at 5:09 AM, =
Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com" =
class=3D"">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">Hi everyone,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">Jeffrey, =
not sure how much of EVPN this solution is, since there are no =
=E2=80=98overlay=E2=80=99 routes advertised. In fact the draft says that =
no routes type 1..4 are needed at all.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">But I see =
your point Jeffrey, and I agree the concept of the source identification =
is not SR specific.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas;" class=3D""></span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Agreed, source identification is not SR =
specific.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas;" class=3D"">@Sami,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">I =
couldn=E2=80=99t speak during the meeting so I=E2=80=99ll throw a couple =
of general comments/questions:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><ol =
start=3D"1" type=3D"1" style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" =
class=3D""><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0cm; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">While I =
see the anycast-SID as an interesting point, I disagree with the =
document=E2=80=99s motivation that EVPN needed to introduce =
control-plane learning due to the MP2P tunnels. =
</span></li></ol></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>What I said is with MP2P tunnels EVPN was forced =
to only control plane Mac learning. Are you saying this is incorrect? If =
so, Why?</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><ol start=3D"1" =
type=3D"1" style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" class=3D""><li =
class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">Control plane learning has a lot of =
advantages and data-plane learning/aging has tons of issues. So this =
should be debated in the =
WG.</span></li></ol></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Sure, will be good to get Service providers input =
on that too. One thing to note here, our proposal is by no mean don=E2=80=99=
t use EVPN, it is simply another option that greatly simplify the =
control plane and remove tons of control plane overhead, as well =
simplify the data plane and remove need for any overlay =
convergence.</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><ol start=3D"2" type=3D"1" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" class=3D""><li =
class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">Irrespective, the anycast-SID idea =
could work in regular EVPN as an optional alternative to aliasing. You =
don=E2=80=99t need to do data-plane learning for that, =
right?</span></li></ol></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Agreed, any technology can use any cast =
SID.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><ol start=3D"2" type=3D"1" style=3D"margin-bottom:=
 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" class=3D""><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li></ol><ol start=3D"3" =
type=3D"1" style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" class=3D""><li =
class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">The document seems to claim fast mac =
move. How can that be guaranteed if the mac learning is data plane =
based?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li></ol><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" =
class=3D""></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>In =
data plane when a MAC move from one port to another, or one PW to =
another, routers simply adjust no need for any EVPN procedure for MAC =
move.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><ol start=3D"4" type=3D"1" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" class=3D""><li =
class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">ARP suppression is not a merit of =
this solution. It could work even in RFC4761/74762 VPLS networks.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li></ol><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm =
36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" =
class=3D""></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Agreed, we don=E2=80=99t claim any of that, the =
proposal doesn=E2=80=99t claim that it invented ARP suppression, or =
invented SR, it simply say it will use it this way, I hope this is =
OK.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">I have a few more, but those =
are enough to start.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Thanks,</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Sami<br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">Thank =
you!<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">Jorge<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"border-style: solid =
none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); =
padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 12pt 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">BESS &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">bess-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Date:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Thursday, November 19, =
2020 at 12:46 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" class=3D"">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" class=3D"">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>[bess] comments on =
draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Hi,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">It seems that the draft is =
about using data-plane mac learning in an EVPN-like solution. That =
retains other properties of EVPN, but removes the need for advertising =
MAC addresses, with the consequences/problems that Ali was trying to =
point out.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Leaving the pros and cons of =
data plane mac learning out, I want to point out that the idea is =
actually orthogonal with SR - even if SR were not invented this concept =
still applies. With VXLAN the source address corresponds to the "source =
node SID", and with MPLS the "PE Distinguisher Label" in MVPN (and =
extended to other use cases) serves the same purpose. That same "PE =
Distinguisher Label" concept is also used in my Generic Fragmentation =
proposal.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">With that, the discussion for =
this draft should be in BESS, not in SPRING.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Jeffrey<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Juniper Business Use =
Only<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">BESS mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" class=3D"">BESS@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">BESS mailing list</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
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none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">BESS@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
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blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a></blockquote></di=
v><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_72131EEE-0D1B-458E-86C3-3F8490E488D9--


From nobody Thu Nov 19 09:21:31 2020
Return-Path: <zzhang@juniper.net>
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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
CC: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org" <draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions@ietf.org>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] Mail regarding draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/LWRTaKmSv5EUziu2QwYqaQzMMco>
Subject: Re: [bess] [Pals] Mail regarding draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions
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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
CC: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 18:20:04 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
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Subject: [bess] Issues w/ draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Is there any objection to adopting the MEF's SDWAN service definition for  draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage?
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Subject: [bess] Is there any objection to adopting the MEF's SDWAN service definition for draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage?
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BESS WG,

MEF SDWAN Service Specification project defines "SDWAN Service" as:

SD-WAN Service

A connectivity service, offered by a Service Provider, that optimizes trans=
port of IP Packets over multiple Underlay Connectivity Services by recogniz=
ing applications (Application Flows) at Ingress and determining forwarding =
behavior by applying Policies to them. MEF SD-WAN Services are specified us=
ing Service Attributes defined in this MEF Standard.


draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-01 currently has a very long description fo=
r SDWAN networks characteristics in its Introduction section. It would be b=
etter to have a short description in the Section 2 (Convention).


  *   Augment of transport, which refers to utilizing overlay paths over di=
fferent underlay networks. Very often there are multiple parallel overlay p=
aths between any two SDWAN edges, some of which are private networks over w=
hich traffic can traverse with or without encryption, others require encryp=
tion, e.g. over untrusted public networks.
  *   Enable direct Internet access from remote sites, instead hauling all =
traffic to Corporate HQ for centralized policy control.
  *   Some traffic flows can be forwarded based on their application identi=
fiers instead of based on destination IP addresses, by the edge nodes placi=
ng the traffic flows onto specific overlay paths based on their application=
 requirement.
  *   The traffic flows forwarding can also be based on specific performanc=
e criteria (e.g. packets delay, packet loos, jitter) to provide better appl=
ication performance by choosing the right underlay that meets or exceeds th=
e specified criteria.

Any opinion?

Thanks, Linda Dunbar

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">BESS WG, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">MEF SDWAN Service Specification project defines &#82=
20;SDWAN Service&#8221; as:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"CellBodySplit">SD-WAN Service<o:p></o:p></p>
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text 1.5pt;border-left:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"CellBodySplit"><a name=3D"OLE_LINK137"></a><a name=3D"OLE_LINK1=
36"></a><a name=3D"OLE_LINK105"></a><a name=3D"OLE_LINK104"><span style=3D"=
mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK105"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK136"><span st=
yle=3D"mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK137">A connectivity
 service, offered by a Service Provider, that optimizes transport of IP Pac=
kets over multiple Underlay Connectivity Services by recognizing applicatio=
ns (Application Flows) at Ingress and determining forwarding behavior by ap=
plying Policies to them. MEF SD-WAN
 Services are specified using Service Attributes defined in this MEF Standa=
rd.</span></span></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage-01 currently has a v=
ery long description for SDWAN networks characteristics in its Introduction=
 section. It would be better to have a short description in the Section 2 (=
Convention).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left=
:.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<a name=3D"_Hlk47022760"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Courier New&quot;">Augment of transport, which refers to utilizing overlay =
paths over different underlay networks. Very often there are multiple paral=
lel overlay paths between any two SDWAN edges,
 some of which are private networks over which traffic can traverse with or=
 without encryption, others require encryption, e.g. over untrusted public =
networks.
<o:p></o:p></span></a></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-marg=
in-top-alt:auto;margin-left:.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_Hlk47022760"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Enable direct Internet access from remo=
te sites, instead hauling all traffic to Corporate HQ for centralized polic=
y control.
<o:p></o:p></span></span></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-m=
argin-top-alt:auto;margin-left:.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_Hlk47022760"><a name=3D"_Hlk47348749"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Some traffic f=
lows can be forwarded based on their application identifiers instead of bas=
ed on destination IP addresses, by the edge nodes
 placing the traffic flows onto specific overlay paths based on their appli=
cation requirement.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></a></span></li><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_Hlk47348749"=
></span>
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left=
:.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_Hlk47022760"><a name=3D"_Hlk45536369"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">The traffic fl=
ows forwarding can also be based on specific performance criteria (e.g. pac=
kets delay, packet loos, jitter) to provide better
 application performance by choosing the right underlay that meets or excee=
ds the specified criteria.
</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any opinion? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks, Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></p>
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Subject: [bess] draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage needs a new Tunnel-Type = SDWAN-Hybrid, Is it necessary to discuss the new Tunnel-Type in IDR WG?
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Matthew, Stephane, and BESS experts,

It is not too clear to me the demarcation of BGP protocol extension between=
 BESS WG and IDR WG.

draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage needs a new Tunnel-Type =3D SDWAN-Hybrid. C=
an BESS drafts apply for a new Tunnel Type from IANA? Or needs an IDR draft=
 to be discussed in IDR WG to get one?
What is the right procedure? Your guidance is greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Linda Dunbar

--_000_SN6PR13MB23344759A3913E6792F947A885E00SN6PR13MB2334namp_
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Matthew, Stephane, and BESS experts, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It is not too clear to me the demarcation of BGP pro=
tocol extension between BESS WG and IDR WG.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">draft-ietf-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage needs a new Tunnel-T=
ype =3D SDWAN-Hybrid. Can BESS drafts apply for a new Tunnel Type from IANA=
? Or needs an IDR draft to be discussed in IDR WG to get one?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What is the right procedure? Your guidance is greatl=
y appreciated.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you very much. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></p>
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Subject: [bess] =?utf-8?q?RFC_8950_on_Advertising_IPv4_Network_Layer_Reac?= =?utf-8?q?hability_Information_=28NLRI=29_with_an_IPv6_Next_Hop?=
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 8950

        Title:      Advertising IPv4 Network Layer Reachability 
                    Information (NLRI) with an IPv6 Next Hop
        Author:     S. Litkowski,
                    S. Agrawal,
                    K. Ananthamurthy,
                    K. Patel
        Status:     Standards Track
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       November 2020
        Mailbox:    slitkows@cisco.com, 
                    swaagraw@cisco.com, 
                    kriswamy@cisco.com,
                    keyur@arrcus.com
        Pages:      12
        Obsoletes:  RFC 5549

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-bess-rfc5549revision-06.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8950

        DOI:        10.17487/RFC8950

Multiprotocol BGP (MP-BGP) specifies that the set of usable next-hop
address families is determined by the Address Family Identifier (AFI)
and the Subsequent Address Family Identifier (SAFI).  The AFI/SAFI
definitions for the IPv4 address family only have provisions for
advertising a next-hop address that belongs to the IPv4 protocol when
advertising IPv4 Network Layer Reachability Information (NLRI) or
VPN-IPv4 NLRI. 

This document specifies the extensions necessary to allow the
advertising of IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI with a next-hop address
that belongs to the IPv6 protocol.  This comprises an extension of
the AFI/SAFI definitions to allow the address of the next hop for
IPv4 NLRI or VPN-IPv4 NLRI to also belong to the IPv6 protocol, the
encoding of the next hop to determine which of the protocols the
address actually belongs to, and a BGP Capability allowing MP-BGP
peers to dynamically discover whether they can exchange IPv4 NLRI and
VPN-IPv4 NLRI with an IPv6 next hop. This document obsoletes RFC
5549.

This document is a product of the BGP Enabled Services Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track
protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Official
Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the 
standardization state and status of this protocol.  Distribution of this 
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From: Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 18:32:44 -0800
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Cc: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, Sami Boutros <sboutros@ciena.com>
To: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [bess] Issues w/ draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Hi Ali,

The draft doesn=E2=80=99t state neither 1 or 2 below. I=E2=80=99m not =
sure if we are looking at the same draft.

Here is the text in the draft introduction

   The goal of the proposed approach is to greatly simplify control
   plane functions and minimize the amount of control plane messages PE
   nodes have to process.  In this version of the document, we assume
   Segment Routing (SR) underlay network.  A future version of this
   document will generalize the underlay network to both classical MPLS
   and SR technologies.

   The proposed approach does not require PW, and hence the control
   plane complexity and message overhead associated with signaling and
   maintaining PWs are eliminated.

Our goal is to simplify:

1- The control plane by signaling very few messages possibly 1 message =
per node to signal all ELAN services configured on that node, presenting =
each ELAN service as 1 bit in the control plane message.

2- The data plane by setting up much less control plane elements like =
PWs, tunnels etc., and more importantly leveraging SR redundancy =
mechanisms of any cast SID to remove the need of any overlay convergence =
or redundancy mechanisms.

Not sure if any the stuff u listed below can address any of the above!

Thanks,

Sami

> On Nov 19, 2020, at 12:21 PM, Ali Sajassi (sajassi) =
<sajassi=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> Sami,
> =20
> Since we didn=E2=80=99t have time to discuss the issues during the =
BESS meeting, let me explain and elaborate them here:
> =20
> The draft states the following two main objectives for its purpose but =
both have been addressed already !!
> =20
> Reducing # of PWs in VPLS:
> VPLS (both BGP and LDP) is a 20-year old technology which is getting =
deprecated and many providers (SP, DC, and EN) are moving toward EVPN. =
However, a few years after VPLS (about 15 years ago) we introduced =
PBB-VPLS (RFCs 7041 and 7080) to address the PW scale issues along with =
few other things.
> Reducing # of EVPN MAC route advertisements:
> This may have been an issue 10 years ago and that=E2=80=99s why we =
introduced simultaneously both EVPN and PBB-EVPN (RFC 7623) but not =
anymore. PBB-EVPN uses data-plane learning and it uses concepts of =
service-id, source B-MAC (for MAC learning) and destination B-MAC (for =
BUM ID), and same concepts are used in your draft. Furthermore RFC 7623 =
supports All-Active multi-homing as well as Single-Active with all the =
improvements that came later including per-ISID c-mac flushing that =
Jorge presented during the call. Needless to say that PBB-EVPN is =
transport agnostic and can work with SR, MPLS, TE, etc.
> =20
> So,  my question is that: what is the point of this draft? Are you =
trying to have a bit more compressed header over what we currently have =
in PBB-EVPN because in terms of functionality, I don=E2=80=99t see much =
difference. However, I see even more issues than PBB-EVPN such as IRB =
handling  and Unequal load-balancing  for an ES.
> =20
> The idea of breaking a PW in to three components of service-id, =
source-id, and dest-id has been around for almost twenty years. I =
introduced mvpls draft in 2002, followed by PBB-VPLS. VxLAN RFC (which =
also talks about data-plane learning) is along the same idea introduced =
in 2010. And finally PBB-EVPN in 2012. So, why do we need to re-invent =
the wheel again?
> =20
> -Ali
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess>

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
Ali,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The draft =
doesn=E2=80=99t state neither 1 or 2 below. I=E2=80=99m not sure if we =
are looking at the same draft.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Here is the text in the draft =
introduction</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px; =
margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; break-before: page; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
text-decoration-thickness: initial;">   The goal of the proposed =
approach is to greatly simplify control
   plane functions and minimize the amount of control plane messages PE
   nodes have to process.  In this version of the document, we assume
   Segment Routing (SR) underlay network.  A future version of this
   document will generalize the underlay network to both classical MPLS
   and SR technologies.

   The proposed approach does not require PW, and hence the control
   plane complexity and message overhead associated with signaling and
   maintaining PWs are eliminated.
</pre></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Our =
goal is to simplify:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">1- The control plane by signaling very few messages possibly =
1 message per node to signal all ELAN services configured on that node, =
presenting each ELAN service as 1 bit in the control plane =
message.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">2- =
The data plane by setting up much less control plane elements like PWs, =
tunnels etc., and more importantly leveraging SR redundancy mechanisms =
of any cast SID to remove the need of any overlay convergence or =
redundancy mechanisms.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Not sure if any the stuff u listed below can address any of =
the above!</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Sami<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov 19, 2020, at 12:21 PM, =
Ali Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sajassi=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">sajassi=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D"">Sami,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Since we didn=E2=80=99t have time =
to discuss the issues during the BESS meeting, let me explain and =
elaborate them here:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">The draft states the following two =
main objectives for its purpose but both have been addressed already =
!!<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><ol start=3D"1" type=3D"1" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;" class=3D""><li =
class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">Reducing # of PWs in VPLS:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li><ol=
 start=3D"1" type=3D"a" style=3D"margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;" =
class=3D""><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">VPLS (both BGP and LDP) is a =
20-year old technology which is getting deprecated and many providers =
(SP, DC, and EN) are moving toward EVPN. However, a few years after VPLS =
(about 15 years ago) we introduced PBB-VPLS (RFCs 7041 and 7080) to =
address the PW scale issues along with few other things.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li></ol><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Reducing # of =
EVPN MAC route advertisements:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li><ol =
start=3D"1" type=3D"a" style=3D"margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;" =
class=3D""><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">This may have been an issue 10 =
years ago and that=E2=80=99s why we introduced simultaneously both EVPN =
and PBB-EVPN (RFC 7623) but not anymore. PBB-EVPN uses data-plane =
learning and it uses concepts of service-id, source B-MAC (for MAC =
learning) and destination B-MAC (for BUM ID), and same concepts are used =
in your draft. Furthermore RFC 7623 supports All-Active multi-homing as =
well as Single-Active with all the improvements that came later =
including per-ISID c-mac flushing that Jorge presented during the call. =
Needless to say that PBB-EVPN is transport agnostic and can work with =
SR, MPLS, TE, etc.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li></ol></ol><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">So, &nbsp;my question is that: =
what is the point of this draft? Are you trying to have a bit more =
compressed header over what we currently have in PBB-EVPN because in =
terms of functionality, I don=E2=80=99t see much difference. However, I =
see even more issues than PBB-EVPN such as IRB handling &nbsp;and =
Unequal load-balancing &nbsp;for an ES.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">The idea of breaking a PW in to =
three components of service-id, source-id, and dest-id has been around =
for almost twenty years. I introduced mvpls draft in 2002, followed by =
PBB-VPLS. VxLAN RFC (which also talks about data-plane learning) is =
along the same idea introduced in 2010. And finally PBB-EVPN in 2012. =
So, why do we need to re-invent the wheel again?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">-Ali<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">BESS mailing list</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">BESS@ietf.org</a><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
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normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a></div></blockquot=
e></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>
CC: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/WRW-sL6Og5ttz3L1q51QdyoLcw8>
Subject: Re: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Hi Sami and Jeffrey,

Please see some comments/replies in-line.

Thank you!
Jorge

From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2020 at 7:20 PM
To: Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mount=
ain View) <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
Cc: bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
To clarify, when I said =93evpn-like solution=94 I was referring to the fac=
t that it uses service-SID/label instead of per-PW labels, and it supports =
split horizon for multi-homing.

As for control  plane learning vs. data plane learning, I don=92t know abou=
t the history, but my impression is that control plane learning is consider=
ed as a feature but not as a fallback solution for not having the PW contex=
ts for do data plane learning. I could be wrong though.
[jorge] I agree with you Jeffrey, to me is an improvement too. More below.


Jeffrey

From: Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:11 PM
To: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
Cc: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

Hi Jorge,




On Nov 19, 2020, at 5:09 AM, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) <jor=
ge.rabadan@nokia.com<mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>> wrote:

Hi everyone,

Jeffrey, not sure how much of EVPN this solution is, since there are no =91=
overlay=92 routes advertised. In fact the draft says that no routes type 1.=
.4 are needed at all.
But I see your point Jeffrey, and I agree the concept of the source identif=
ication is not SR specific.

Agreed, source identification is not SR specific.




@Sami,

I couldn=92t speak during the meeting so I=92ll throw a couple of general c=
omments/questions:


1.       While I see the anycast-SID as an interesting point, I disagree wi=
th the document=92s motivation that EVPN needed to introduce control-plane =
learning due to the MP2P tunnels.

What I said is with MP2P tunnels EVPN was forced to only control plane Mac =
learning. Are you saying this is incorrect? If so, Why?
[jorge] No, I didn=92t make myself clear enough =96 control plane is needed=
 with MP2P tunnels, yes, but what I meant is that in your motivation it *so=
unds* like control-plane learning was a necessary evil due to the need for =
MP2P tunnels to fix the scale issue. I see control-plane learning as an add=
itional improvement/feature, as Jeffrey was saying.




1.       Control plane learning has a lot of advantages and data-plane lear=
ning/aging has tons of issues. So this should be debated in the WG.

Sure, will be good to get Service providers input on that too. One thing to=
 note here, our proposal is by no mean don=92t use EVPN, it is simply anoth=
er option that greatly simplify the control plane and remove tons of contro=
l plane overhead, as well simplify the data plane and remove need for any o=
verlay convergence.





2.       Irrespective, the anycast-SID idea could work in regular EVPN as a=
n optional alternative to aliasing. You don=92t need to do data-plane learn=
ing for that, right?

Agreed, any technology can use any cast SID.
[jorge] if you want to specify an anycast SID solution for EVPN as an alter=
native to aliasing, since it may have its merits, I=92ll be glad to investi=
gate it with you and help. However data plane-learning sounds a step back t=
o me.






3.       The document seems to claim fast mac move. How can that be guarant=
eed if the mac learning is data plane based?

In data plane when a MAC move from one port to another, or one PW to anothe=
r, routers simply adjust no need for any EVPN procedure for MAC move.
[jorge] you are assuming that when that MAC moves to another port, it sends=
 BUM traffic that is flooded and all the nodes can update. That is not alwa=
ys the case. The host that moves can simply generate known unicast traffic,=
 and hence most nodes in the network will have stale information for the ag=
ing time. EVPN takes care of the mobility immediately as soon as the MAC th=
at moves generates *any* type of frame.





4.       ARP suppression is not a merit of this solution. It could work eve=
n in RFC4761/74762 VPLS networks.


Agreed, we don=92t claim any of that, the proposal doesn=92t claim that it =
invented ARP suppression, or invented SR, it simply say it will use it this=
 way, I hope this is OK.
[jorge] yes, that=92s ok, just wanted to clarify Sami.





I have a few more, but those are enough to start.

Thanks,

Sami


Thank you!
Jorge


From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org>>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2020 at 12:46 PM
To: bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org> <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org=
>>
Subject: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
Hi,

It seems that the draft is about using data-plane mac learning in an EVPN-l=
ike solution. That retains other properties of EVPN, but removes the need f=
or advertising MAC addresses, with the consequences/problems that Ali was t=
rying to point out.

Leaving the pros and cons of data plane mac learning out, I want to point o=
ut that the idea is actually orthogonal with SR - even if SR were not inven=
ted this concept still applies. With VXLAN the source address corresponds t=
o the "source node SID", and with MPLS the "PE Distinguisher Label" in MVPN=
 (and extended to other use cases) serves the same purpose. That same "PE D=
istinguisher Label" concept is also used in my Generic Fragmentation propos=
al.

With that, the discussion for this draft should be in BESS, not in SPRING.

Jeffrey

Juniper Business Use Only

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--></style>
</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:brea=
k-word">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Hi Sami and Jeffrey,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Please see some comments/replies in-line.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Thank you!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Jorge<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang@junip=
er.net&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, November 19, 2020 at 7:20 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Sami Boutros &lt;boutros.sami@gmail.com&gt;, Rabadan, Jorge (Nok=
ia - US/Mountain View) &lt;jorge.rabadan@nokia.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>bess@ietf.org &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-ove=
r-sr<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">To clarify, when I said=
 =93evpn-like solution=94 I was referring to the fact that it uses service-=
SID/label instead of per-PW labels, and it supports split horizon for multi=
-homing.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">As for control&nbsp; pl=
ane learning vs. data plane learning, I don=92t know about the history, but=
 my impression is that control plane learning is considered as a feature bu=
t not as a fallback solution for not having
 the PW contexts for do data plane learning. I could be wrong though.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">[jorge] I agree with you Jeffrey, to me is an improvement too. More below=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><b>From:</b> Sami Boutr=
os &lt;boutros.sami@gmail.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) &lt;jorge.rabadan@noki=
a.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang@juniper.net&gt;; bess@ietf.or=
g<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-ove=
r-sr<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;line-height:12.0pt;backg=
round:#FFEB9C">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External =
Email. Be cautious of content]</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Hi Jorge, <o:p></o:p></=
p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">On Nov 19, 2020, at 5:0=
9 AM, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge=
.rabadan@nokia.com">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Hi everyone,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Jeffrey, not sure how much of EVPN this solu=
tion is, since there are no =91overlay=92 routes advertised. In fact the dr=
aft says that no routes type 1..4 are needed
 at all.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">But I see your point Jeffrey, and I agree th=
e concept of the source identification is not SR specific.</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Agreed, source identifi=
cation is not SR specific.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">@Sami,<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">=
&nbsp;</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">I couldn=92t speak during the meeting so I=
=92ll throw a couple of general comments/questions:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:=
0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l5 le=
vel1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consola=
s">While I see the anycast-SID as an interesting point, I disagree with the=
 document=92s motivation that EVPN needed to introduce control-plane learni=
ng due to the MP2P tunnels.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">What I said is with MP2=
P tunnels EVPN was forced to only control plane Mac learning. Are you sayin=
g this is incorrect? If so, Why?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">[jorge] No, I didn=92t make myself clear enough =96 control plane is need=
ed with MP2P tunnels, yes, but what I meant is that in your motivation it *=
<b>sounds</b>* like control-plane learning
 was a necessary evil due to the need for MP2P tunnels to fix the scale iss=
ue. I see control-plane learning as an additional improvement/feature, as J=
effrey was saying.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:=
0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 le=
vel1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consola=
s">Control plane learning has a lot of advantages and data-plane learning/a=
ging has tons of issues. So this should be debated in the WG.</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Sure, will be good to g=
et Service providers input on that too. One thing to note here, our proposa=
l is by no mean don=92t use EVPN, it is simply another option that greatly =
simplify the control plane and remove
 tons of control plane overhead, as well simplify the data plane and remove=
 need for any overlay convergence.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:=
0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l4 le=
vel1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consola=
s">Irrespective, the anycast-SID idea could work in regular EVPN as an opti=
onal alternative to aliasing. You don=92t need to do data-plane learning fo=
r that, right?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Agreed, any technology =
can use any cast SID.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">[jorge] if you want to specify an anycast SID solution for EVPN as an alt=
ernative to aliasing, since it may have its merits, I=92ll be glad to inves=
tigate it with you and help. However data
 plane-learning sounds a step back to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:=
0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:72.0pt">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:=
0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l3 le=
vel1 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consola=
s">The document seems to claim fast mac move. How can that be guaranteed if=
 the mac learning is data plane based?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">In data plane when a MA=
C move from one port to another, or one PW to another, routers simply adjus=
t no need for any EVPN procedure for MAC move.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">[jorge] you are assuming that when that MAC moves to another port, it sen=
ds BUM traffic that is flooded and all the nodes can update. That is not al=
ways the case. The host that moves can
 simply generate known unicast traffic, and hence most nodes in the network=
 will have stale information for the aging time. EVPN takes care of the mob=
ility immediately as soon as the MAC that moves generates *any* type of fra=
me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:=
0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 le=
vel1 lfo6">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consola=
s">ARP suppression is not a merit of this solution. It could work even in R=
FC4761/74762 VPLS networks.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Agreed, we don=92t clai=
m any of that, the proposal doesn=92t claim that it invented ARP suppressio=
n, or invented SR, it simply say it will use it this way, I hope this is OK=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">[jorge] yes, that=92s ok, just wanted to clarify Sami.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">I have a few more, but those are enough to s=
tart.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Sami<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Thank you!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Jorge</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:72.0pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">From:<span class=3D"apple-converted-spa=
ce">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">BESS &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org">bess-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date:<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Thursday, No=
vember 19, 2020 at 12:46 PM<br>
<b>To:<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a href=3D"mai=
lto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">b=
ess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>[bess] co=
mments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Hi,<br>
<br>
It seems that the draft is about using data-plane mac learning in an EVPN-l=
ike solution. That retains other properties of EVPN, but removes the need f=
or advertising MAC addresses, with the consequences/problems that Ali was t=
rying to point out.<br>
<br>
Leaving the pros and cons of data plane mac learning out, I want to point o=
ut that the idea is actually orthogonal with SR - even if SR were not inven=
ted this concept still applies. With VXLAN the source address corresponds t=
o the &quot;source node SID&quot;, and with
 MPLS the &quot;PE Distinguisher Label&quot; in MVPN (and extended to other=
 use cases) serves the same purpose. That same &quot;PE Distinguisher Label=
&quot; concept is also used in my Generic Fragmentation proposal.<br>
<br>
With that, the discussion for this draft should be in BESS, not in SPRING.<=
br>
<br>
Jeffrey<br>
<br>
Juniper Business Use Only<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo=
/bess__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!VxGsf2muy1oOc43yyMHygNmGkHp0T1soQk5peu2Fy52TPBZCmPstn=
w7sc4NEkzej$">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">____________________________________________=
___<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font=
-family:Helvetica">BESS@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;f=
ont-family:Helvetica"><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/l=
istinfo/bess__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!VxGsf2muy1oOc43yyMHygNmGkHp0T1soQk5peu2Fy52TPB=
ZCmPstnw7sc4NEkzej$"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p align=3D"center" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:15.0pt;margin-right:15.0pt;=
margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:51.0pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_MWHPR08MB3520703259C3317280FE3021F7FF0MWHPR08MB3520namp_--


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Multicast and Ethernet VPN with Segment Routing Point-to-Multipoint Trees
        Authors         : Rishabh Parekh
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Arvind Venkateswaran
                          Hooman Bidgoli
                          Daniel Voyer
                          Zhaohui Zhang
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-00.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2020-11-18

Abstract:
   A Point-to-Multipoint (P2MP) Tree in a Segment Routing domain
   efficiently carries traffic from a Root to a set of Leaves.  This
   document describes extensions to BGP encodings and procedures for
   P2MP trees used in BGP/MPLS IP VPNs and Ethernet VPNs.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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Hi Jorge,

Please see few comments inline.

> =20
> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net =
<mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2020 at 7:20 PM
> To: Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com =
<mailto:boutros.sami@gmail.com>>, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain =
View) <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com <mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>>
> Cc: bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org> <bess@ietf.org =
<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
> Subject: RE: [bess] comments on =
draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
>=20
> To clarify, when I said =E2=80=9Cevpn-like solution=E2=80=9D I was =
referring to the fact that it uses service-SID/label instead of per-PW =
labels, and it supports split horizon for multi-homing.
> =20
> As for control  plane learning vs. data plane learning, I don=E2=80=99t =
know about the history, but my impression is that control plane learning =
is considered as a feature but not as a fallback solution for not having =
the PW contexts for do data plane learning. I could be wrong though.
> [jorge] I agree with you Jeffrey, to me is an improvement too. More =
below.
> =20
> =20
> Jeffrey
> =20
> From: Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com =
<mailto:boutros.sami@gmail.com>>=20
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:11 PM
> To: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com =
<mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>>
> Cc: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net =
<mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [bess] comments on =
draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
> =20
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> =20
> Hi Jorge,=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Nov 19, 2020, at 5:09 AM, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) =
<jorge.rabadan@nokia.com <mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>> wrote:
> =20
> Hi everyone,
> =20
> Jeffrey, not sure how much of EVPN this solution is, since there are =
no =E2=80=98overlay=E2=80=99 routes advertised. In fact the draft says =
that no routes type 1..4 are needed at all.
> But I see your point Jeffrey, and I agree the concept of the source =
identification is not SR specific.
> =20
> Agreed, source identification is not SR specific.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =20
> @Sami,=20
> =20
> I couldn=E2=80=99t speak during the meeting so I=E2=80=99ll throw a =
couple of general comments/questions:
> =20
> 1.       While I see the anycast-SID as an interesting point, I =
disagree with the document=E2=80=99s motivation that EVPN needed to =
introduce control-plane learning due to the MP2P tunnels.
> =20
> What I said is with MP2P tunnels EVPN was forced to only control plane =
Mac learning. Are you saying this is incorrect? If so, Why?
> [jorge] No, I didn=E2=80=99t make myself clear enough =E2=80=93 =
control plane is needed with MP2P tunnels, yes, but what I meant is that =
in your motivation it *sounds* like control-plane learning was a =
necessary evil due to the need for MP2P tunnels to fix the scale issue. =
I see control-plane learning as an additional improvement/feature, as =
Jeffrey was saying.
>=20

Our motivation is to simplify control plane for use cases that don=E2=80=99=
t need control plane MAC learning.=20

>=20
> 1.       Control plane learning has a lot of advantages and data-plane =
learning/aging has tons of issues. So this should be debated in the WG.
> =20
> Sure, will be good to get Service providers input on that too. One =
thing to note here, our proposal is by no mean don=E2=80=99t use EVPN, =
it is simply another option that greatly simplify the control plane and =
remove tons of control plane overhead, as well simplify the data plane =
and remove need for any overlay convergence.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =20
> 2.       Irrespective, the anycast-SID idea could work in regular EVPN =
as an optional alternative to aliasing. You don=E2=80=99t need to do =
data-plane learning for that, right?
> =20
> Agreed, any technology can use any cast SID.
> [jorge] if you want to specify an anycast SID solution for EVPN as an =
alternative to aliasing, since it may have its merits, I=E2=80=99ll be =
glad to investigate it with you and help. However data plane-learning =
sounds a step back to me.
>=20

Sure, we can consider this option for the control plane Mac learning =
too.

>=20
> =20
> 3.       The document seems to claim fast mac move. How can that be =
guaranteed if the mac learning is data plane based?
> =20
> In data plane when a MAC move from one port to another, or one PW to =
another, routers simply adjust no need for any EVPN procedure for MAC =
move.
> [jorge] you are assuming that when that MAC moves to another port, it =
sends BUM traffic that is flooded and all the nodes can update. That is =
not always the case. The host that moves can simply generate known =
unicast traffic, and hence most nodes in the network will have stale =
information for the aging time. EVPN takes care of the mobility =
immediately as soon as the MAC that moves generates *any* type of frame.
>=20

I see your point, this should be a good problem to solve for data plane =
Mac learning, if the node is learning a new Mac on a port should it =
flood even if the destination is known?

>=20
> =20
> 4.       ARP suppression is not a merit of this solution. It could =
work even in RFC4761/74762 VPLS networks.
> =20
> =20
> Agreed, we don=E2=80=99t claim any of that, the proposal doesn=E2=80=99t=
 claim that it invented ARP suppression, or invented SR, it simply say =
it will use it this way, I hope this is OK.
> [jorge] yes, that=E2=80=99s ok, just wanted to clarify Sami.
> =20

Cool

Thanks,

Sami
> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I have a few more, but those are enough to start.
> =20
> Thanks,
> =20
> Sami
>=20
>=20
> Thank you!
> Jorge
> =20
> =20
> From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org>>
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2020 at 12:46 PM
> To: bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org> <bess@ietf.org =
<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
> Subject: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> It seems that the draft is about using data-plane mac learning in an =
EVPN-like solution. That retains other properties of EVPN, but removes =
the need for advertising MAC addresses, with the consequences/problems =
that Ali was trying to point out.
>=20
> Leaving the pros and cons of data plane mac learning out, I want to =
point out that the idea is actually orthogonal with SR - even if SR were =
not invented this concept still applies. With VXLAN the source address =
corresponds to the "source node SID", and with MPLS the "PE =
Distinguisher Label" in MVPN (and extended to other use cases) serves =
the same purpose. That same "PE Distinguisher Label" concept is also =
used in my Generic Fragmentation proposal.
>=20
> With that, the discussion for this draft should be in BESS, not in =
SPRING.
>=20
> Jeffrey
>=20
> Juniper Business Use Only
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess =
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess__;!=
!NEt6yMaO-gk!VxGsf2muy1oOc43yyMHygNmGkHp0T1soQk5peu2Fy52TPBZCmPstnw7sc4NEk=
zej$>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org <mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess =
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess__;!=
!NEt6yMaO-gk!VxGsf2muy1oOc43yyMHygNmGkHp0T1soQk5peu2Fy52TPBZCmPstnw7sc4NEk=
zej$>
> =20
> =20
> Juniper Business Use Only
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_5D65E644-A21F-40F9-8603-A679A396D46E
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
Jorge,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Please see =
few comments inline.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"border-style: solid =
none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); =
padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 12pt 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Thursday, November 19, =
2020 at 7:20 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Sami Boutros &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:boutros.sami@gmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">boutros.sami@gmail.com</a>&gt;, =
Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br=
 class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">bess@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>RE: [bess] comments on =
draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm =
36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">To =
clarify, when I said =E2=80=9Cevpn-like solution=E2=80=9D I was =
referring to the fact that it uses service-SID/label instead of per-PW =
labels, and it supports split horizon for multi-homing.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">As for =
control&nbsp; plane learning vs. data plane learning, I don=E2=80=99t =
know about the history, but my impression is that control plane learning =
is considered as a feature but not as a fallback solution for not having =
the PW contexts for do data plane learning. I could be wrong though.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">[jorge] I agree with you =
Jeffrey, to me is an improvement too. More =
below.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Jeffrey<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: =
3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Sami Boutros &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:boutros.sami@gmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">boutros.sami@gmail.com</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, November 19, 2020 =
12:11 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - =
US/Mountain View) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">bess@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [bess] comments on =
draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm =
36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
line-height: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 235, 156);" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Lato;" =
class=3D"">[External Email. Be cautious of content]</span></b><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm =
36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi =
Jorge,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm =
36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">On Nov 19, 2020, at 5:09 AM, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - =
US/Mountain View) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">Hi everyone,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">Jeffrey, not sure how much of =
EVPN this solution is, since there are no =E2=80=98overlay=E2=80=99 =
routes advertised. In fact the draft says that no routes type 1..4 are =
needed at all.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">But I see your point Jeffrey, =
and I agree the concept of the source identification is not SR =
specific.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Agreed, =
source identification is not SR specific.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" =
class=3D"">@Sami,<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">I couldn=E2=80=99t speak =
during the meeting so I=E2=80=99ll throw a couple of general =
comments/questions:</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-indent: =
-18pt;"><span class=3D"">1.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">While I =
see the anycast-SID as an interesting point, I disagree with the =
document=E2=80=99s motivation that EVPN needed to introduce =
control-plane learning due to the MP2P tunnels.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">What I said is with MP2P tunnels EVPN was forced to only =
control plane Mac learning. Are you saying this is incorrect? If so, =
Why?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">[jorge] =
No, I didn=E2=80=99t make myself clear enough =E2=80=93 control plane is =
needed with MP2P tunnels, yes, but what I meant is that in your =
motivation it *<b class=3D"">sounds</b>* like control-plane learning was =
a necessary evil due to the need for MP2P tunnels to fix the scale =
issue. I see control-plane learning as an additional =
improvement/feature, as Jeffrey was saying.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm =
36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Our motivation is to simplify control plane for =
use cases that don=E2=80=99t need control plane MAC =
learning.&nbsp;</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
72pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-bottom: =
0cm; text-indent: -18pt;"><span class=3D"">1.<span style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: =
normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: &quot;Times =
New Roman&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">Control =
plane learning has a lot of advantages and data-plane learning/aging has =
tons of issues. So this should be debated in the WG.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Sure, will be good to get Service providers input on that =
too. One thing to note here, our proposal is by no mean don=E2=80=99t =
use EVPN, it is simply another option that greatly simplify the control =
plane and remove tons of control plane overhead, as well simplify the =
data plane and remove need for any overlay convergence.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin-left: 36pt;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-indent: =
-18pt;"><span class=3D"">2.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" =
class=3D"">Irrespective, the anycast-SID idea could work in regular EVPN =
as an optional alternative to aliasing. You don=E2=80=99t need to do =
data-plane learning for that, right?</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Agreed, =
any technology can use any cast SID.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas;" class=3D"">[jorge] if you want to specify an anycast SID =
solution for EVPN as an alternative to aliasing, since it may have its =
merits, I=E2=80=99ll be glad to investigate it with you and help. =
However data plane-learning sounds a step back to me.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Sure, we can consider this option for the control plane =
Mac learning too.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0cm;">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-indent: -18pt;"><span =
class=3D"">3.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; =
line-height: normal; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">The =
document seems to claim fast mac move. How can that be guaranteed if the =
mac learning is data plane based?</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p></blockquote><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">In data plane when a MAC move from one port to another, or =
one PW to another, routers simply adjust no need for any EVPN procedure =
for MAC move.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">[jorge] =
you are assuming that when that MAC moves to another port, it sends BUM =
traffic that is flooded and all the nodes can update. That is not always =
the case. The host that moves can simply generate known unicast traffic, =
and hence most nodes in the network will have stale information for the =
aging time. EVPN takes care of the mobility immediately as soon as the =
MAC that moves generates *any* type of frame.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>I see your point, this should be a good problem to =
solve for data plane Mac learning, if the node is learning a new Mac on =
a port should it flood even if the destination is known?</div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin-left: 36pt;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-indent: =
-18pt;"><span class=3D"">4.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">ARP =
suppression is not a merit of this solution. It could work even in =
RFC4761/74762 VPLS networks.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><div =
style=3D"margin-left: 36pt;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Agreed, =
we don=E2=80=99t claim any of that, the proposal doesn=E2=80=99t claim =
that it invented ARP suppression, or invented SR, it simply say it will =
use it this way, I hope this is OK.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Consolas;" class=3D"">[jorge] yes, that=E2=80=99s ok, just wanted to =
clarify Sami.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br=
 class=3D""></div>Cool</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Sami</div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" =
class=3D"">I have a few more, but those are enough to start.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Sami<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" =
class=3D"">Thank you!</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">Jorge</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Consolas;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"border-style: solid none =
none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); =
padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 12pt 72pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">From:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">BESS &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">bess-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Thursday, November 19, =
2020 at 12:46 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">bess@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>[bess] comments on =
draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin-left: =
36pt;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi,<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">It seems that the draft is about using data-plane mac =
learning in an EVPN-like solution. That retains other properties of =
EVPN, but removes the need for advertising MAC addresses, with the =
consequences/problems that Ali was trying to point out.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Leaving the pros and cons of data plane mac learning out, I =
want to point out that the idea is actually orthogonal with SR - even if =
SR were not invented this concept still applies. With VXLAN the source =
address corresponds to the "source node SID", and with MPLS the "PE =
Distinguisher Label" in MVPN (and extended to other use cases) serves =
the same purpose. That same "PE Distinguisher Label" concept is also =
used in my Generic Fragmentation proposal.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">With that, the discussion for this draft should be in BESS, =
not in SPRING.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Jeffrey<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Juniper Business Use Only<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">BESS mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">BESS@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/b=
ess__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!VxGsf2muy1oOc43yyMHygNmGkHp0T1soQk5peu2Fy52TPBZCmPstnw=
7sc4NEkzej$" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm =
36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">BESS mailing list<br class=3D""></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
Helvetica;" class=3D"">BESS@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size: =
9pt; font-family: Helvetica;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></span><a =
href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/b=
ess__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!VxGsf2muy1oOc43yyMHygNmGkHp0T1soQk5peu2Fy52TPBZCmPstnw=
7sc4NEkzej$" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</span></a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></blockquote></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><p =
align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-right: 15pt; margin-bottom: 15pt; =
margin-left: 51pt; text-align: center;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 7pt;" class=3D"">Juniper Business Use Only<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
CC: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, Sami Boutros <sboutros@ciena.com>
Thread-Topic: [bess] Issues w/ draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Subject: Re: [bess] Issues w/ draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>
CC: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 18:21:33 +0000
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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
To: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/wwFRv1IgXXibo0WBA3iWzVibA8M>
Subject: Re: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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--_000_MWHPR08MB3520E9A89EF062728984138AF7FF0MWHPR08MB3520namp_
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Hi Ali,

Yes, I understand it has pros and cons. What I meant is that, if using anyc=
ast SID in EVPN satisfies Sami=92s requirements (or most), there is no need=
 to add a completely new technology that needs to reinvent how to do all se=
rvices (elan, eline, etree, L3, mcast, etc) and relies on data-plane mac-le=
arning - we can apply anycast SIDs to existing EVPN.

Thanks.
Jorge

From: Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi@cisco.com>
Date: Friday, November 20, 2020 at 7:21 PM
To: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, Je=
ffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>, Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmai=
l.com>
Cc: bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
Hi Jorge,

<snip>
Agreed, any technology can use any cast SID.
[jorge] if you want to specify an anycast SID solution for EVPN as an alter=
native to aliasing, since it may have its merits, I=92ll be glad to investi=
gate it with you and help. However data plane-learning sounds a step back t=
o me.
<end of snip>

I looked at this long time ago and it had some issues. For example, if you =
pass the anycast ID in underlay, then the load balancing is dictated by you=
r underlay topology instead of the actual link BW of MCLAG. If you try to g=
et fancier and distribute link bw info in the underlay (IGP), then you are =
burdening the underly protocol with overlay info.  And finally if you distr=
ibute it in the overlay (e.g., BGP), it becomes very similar to what we do =
currently.

BTW, Aliasing feature in EVPN is not mandatory but rather optional as you k=
now.

Cheers,
Ali




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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Hi Ali,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Yes, I understand it has pros and cons. What I meant is that, if using an=
ycast SID in EVPN satisfies Sami=92s requirements (or most), there is no ne=
ed to add a completely new technology
 that needs to reinvent how to do all services (elan, eline, etree, L3, mca=
st, etc) and relies on data-plane mac-learning - we can apply anycast SIDs =
to existing EVPN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Jorge <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Ali Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;sajassi@cisco.=
com&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, November 20, 2020 at 7:21 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) &lt;jorge.rabadan@noki=
a.com&gt;, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang@juniper.net&gt;, Sami Boutros=
 &lt;boutros.sami@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>bess@ietf.org &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-ove=
r-sr<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Hi Jorge,<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt">&lt;snip&gt;&nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt">Agreed, any technology =
can use any cast SID.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">[jorge] if you want to specify an anycast SI=
D solution for EVPN as an alternative to aliasing, since it may have its me=
rits, I=92ll be glad to investigate it with
 you and help. However data plane-learning sounds a step back to me.</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt">&lt;end of snip&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">I looked at this long t=
ime ago and it had some issues. For example, if you pass the anycast ID in =
underlay, then the load balancing is dictated by your underlay topology ins=
tead of the actual link BW of MCLAG.
 If you try to get fancier and distribute link bw info in the underlay (IGP=
), then you are burdening the underly protocol with overlay info. &nbsp;And=
 finally if you distribute it in the overlay (e.g., BGP), it becomes very s=
imilar to what we do currently.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">BTW, Aliasing feature i=
n EVPN is not mandatory but rather optional as you know.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Ali<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:15.0pt;margin-right:15.0pt;margin-bottom:15.=
0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_MWHPR08MB3520E9A89EF062728984138AF7FF0MWHPR08MB3520namp_--


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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: "Boutros, Sami" <sboutros@ciena.com>, Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
CC: "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [**EXTERNAL**] Re: [bess] Issues w/ draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 20:28:03 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bess] [**EXTERNAL**] Re: Issues w/ draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 16:10:32 -0500
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Subject: Re: [bess] [Bier] PCE Controller & SDN Controller & Netconf/Yang NMS Controller - lines blurred and can the names be used ubiquitously meaning the same
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Hi Adrian,

In line

Kind Regards

Gyan
On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 7:04 AM Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
> Sorry, I missed this (got caught on a filter cos it was a bit spammed to =
a
> lot of lists :-).
>
>
>
> > I have noticed that after reviewing many drafts across many WGs it seem=
s
> in the
>
> > industry that the lines seem to be blurred between a PCE controller, OD=
L
> or
>
> > Openflow SDN Controller and a Netconf/Yang NMS Controller ZTP & Day X
>
> > provisioning.
>
>
>
> Yes, blurriness our speciality.
>
>  Gyan> :)
>
> You my find RFC 7491 useful in this respect, although it is a little
> dated. And, of course, RFC 8283 is a good starting point.
>
>  Gyan> Thanks
>
> As this is a software sitting on a server you can have a swiss army knife
> server that
>
> > does everything from PCE path computation to  Netconf/Yang ZTP & Day N
>
> > provisioning as well as any SDN Controller ODL or Openflow controller
> type
>
> > functions as well.
>
>
>
> Yes, and this is one of the risks of PCE as a shiny thing: that it be
> converted from a useful toolkit into some form of god-box. I pontificated
> on this way back in 2014 at http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnwards.pdf
>
>  Gyan> My sentiments exactly - With that power at your fingertips comes
> responsibility.
>
> How this comes into play and realization of the lines being blurred is
> the use of
>
> > BGP-LS in building the IGP topological graph of the network which was
> designed
>
> > for PCEP and PCE & PCC active & passive off line path computation for
> both
>
> > RSVP-TE or SR-TE path instantiation.
>
>
>
> In some senses, BGP-LS didn=E2=80=99t add anything because a PCE could ha=
ve
> snooped on the IGP. But BGP-LS provides an export mechanism and important=
ly
> adds to that some policy filters to determine what is exported thus givin=
g
> the network some control over what is exported.
>
>  Gyan> Agreed
>
> FWIW, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-ls/
> proposes using PCEP for the same function. The argument in favor is that =
a
> PCE has to implement PCEP anyway, so why not include the LS export as wel=
l.
> The argument against is that BGP-LS has wider applicability and that it
> will typically be exported from an ASBR which already supports BGP.
>
>  Gyan> Makes sense and in some ways cuts out the middle man BGP-LS
> overloading burden on BGP.  Great idea.  I like it.  Another very valuabl=
e
> tool in the operators toolbox.
>
> > However now BGP-LS can also be used for other functions now such as
> usage as
>
> > I am a Shepherd reviewing a draft for BGP-LS usage for BIER to use
> BGP-LS to
>
> > gather the elements internals within BIER using the same BGP-LS data
> structures
>
> > to populate with BIER specific information to graph the BIER topology.
> So here
>
> > we are not doing any path computations as we are using in this use case
> for
>
> > NMS type function to gather data for ZTP & Day N provisioning.
>
> >
>
> > Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and bein=
g
> able
>
> > to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN RT & resource
> information
>
> > and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gathering & ZTP like
> controller style
>
> > provisioning.
>
>
>
> Is there a fundamental difference between ZTP & Day N provisioning and
> path computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all d=
etermining
> how to configure the network to best carry traffic.
>
>
>
   Gyan> In my mind the fundamental difference would be TE - control plane
TEDs and forwarding plane routing action path computation and instantiation
of path action as compare to a NMS type Netconf/Yang configuration snippet
push function not routing or TE related.

> > It does seem as though BGP-LS as its a means of "data gathering" "dump
> truck"
>
> > of anything with the kitchen sink included to build any type of
> topological graph
>
> > of literally anything under the sun.
>
>
>
> Remembering Yakov Rekhter saying you could use BGP to transport
> Shakespeare.
>
> This is a tension with any protocol BGP-LS, PCEP, etc., etc. Stuff gets
> added, further use gets made.
>
>  Gyan> Understood
>
> BGP-LS was intended to export routing information =E2=80=9Cnorthbound=E2=
=80=9D from the
> network.
>
>  Gyan> Understood
>
> > I see that is a nice to leverage but it does in fact blur the lines of
> NMS Netconf/Yang
>
> > Controller based functionality and  PCE path computation functionality
> and SDN
>
> > controller based ZTP functionality into a single ubiquitous server that
> can do all of
>
> > the above and use BGP-LS to accomplish the "kitchen sink" tasks.  It
> does however
>
> > transform BGP to be an NMS tool but a "tool" and not just the original
> function
>
> > which it was intended NLRI network reachability.
>
>
>
> Not sure that BGP-LS is BGP. But I agree that BGP-LS is =E2=80=9Can NMS t=
ool=E2=80=9D.
>
> I might argue that BGP distributing policies from installation on PEs is
> an NMS protocol.
>
>  Gyan> Agreed.  One way to look at it is that as BGP primary function is
> routing, however there many code points that are not necessarily routing
> related , and BGP provides the ability to have each code point or SAFI or
> parameters as a discrete container - to be enabled as desired, however wi=
th
> that flexibility not all containers have to be used by the operator.  So
> the operator can custom tailor what SAFI, codepoint or parameters are
> required for the implementation per design requirements and only enable
> those that are necessary.  So that would of course be the case for BGP-LS=
.
> So in that case BGP can be utilized for routing or as an NMS tool extendi=
ng
> Netconf/Yang via BGP-LS or any other function that requires import of dat=
a
> structures.   And that=E2=80=99s Ok.
>
> Am I off base and please let me know as its BGP-LS is being way over
> leveraged.
>
> > There are pros & cons to everything but I thought I would bring up to
> the WG as
>
> > an important discussion point.
>
>
>
> Who are we to argue with real implementations? Assuming that there is a
> push for implementation and deployment, then the thing to look for is
> =E2=80=9Charm=E2=80=9D. Does this use of BGP-LS cause harm, sow confusion=
, risk
> destabilising the network? Should it use a different code point to be
> distinguishable?
>
> Gyan> Completely agree.  I agree negative impact if any exist.  See my
> comments above.  As BGP has the ability to compartmentalize SAFI,
> codepoints and parameters into containers to be used discretely for
> specific use cases tailored to the operators need. So it may feel that we
> are throwing the kitchen sink at BGP and as that may not have been the
> intention way back but as BGP is customizable BGP can truly be a ubiquito=
us
> tool in the operators toolbox.
>
> I think the argument that =E2=80=9Cthere is already another protocol for =
doing
> this=E2=80=9D is worth examining. But we have to be careful that it doesn=
=E2=80=99t get us
> stuck, or force everyone to do something they don=E2=80=99t want to do. A=
fter all,
> we could carry any protocol message using Netconf/YANG, but we don=E2=80=
=99t do
> =E2=80=9CRSVP-TE over Netconf=E2=80=9D.
>

   Gyan> Agreed

Many thanks for your feedback!

>
>
> Best,
>
> Adrian
>
>
>
--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Adrian,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">In line=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Kind Regards=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">Gyan<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote" dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 7:04 AM Adrian Farrel &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:=
rgb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_2775002839800588745WordSection1">=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hi Gyan,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
>Sorry, I missed this (got caught on a filter cos it was a bit spammed to a=
 lot of lists :-).<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; I have no=
ticed that after reviewing many drafts across many WGs it seems in the<u></=
u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; industry that the lines seem to be=
 blurred between a PCE controller, ODL or<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">&gt; Openflow SDN Controller and a Netconf/Yang NMS Controller ZTP &=
amp; Day X<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; provisioning.<u></u=
><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">Yes, blurriness our speciality.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; :)<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
You my find RFC 7491 useful in this respect, although it is a little dated.=
 And, of course, RFC 8283 is a good starting point.<u></u><u></u></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; Thanks=C2=A0</p></div><=
/div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;paddin=
g-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"=
blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_27750=
02839800588745WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><=
u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; As this is a software sitt=
ing on a server you can have a swiss army knife server that<u></u><u></u></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; does everything from PCE path computation to=
=C2=A0 Netconf/Yang ZTP &amp; Day N <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">&gt; provisioning as well as any SDN Controller ODL or Openflow controlle=
r type<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; functions as well.<u></=
u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">Yes, and this is one of the risks of PCE as a shiny thing: that it =
be converted from a useful toolkit into some form of god-box. I pontificate=
d on this way back in 2014 at <a href=3D"http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnw=
ards.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnwards.pdf</a><=
u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; =
My sentiments exactly - With that power at your fingertips comes responsibi=
lity. =C2=A0</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div =
lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word=
"><div class=3D"m_2775002839800588745WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; How=
 this comes into play and realization of the lines being blurred is the use=
 of<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; BGP-LS in building the IGP=
 topological graph of the network which was designed<u></u><u></u></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; for PCEP and PCE &amp; PCC active &amp; passive off =
line path computation for both<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;=
 RSVP-TE or SR-TE path instantiation.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">In some sense=
s, BGP-LS didn=E2=80=99t add anything because a PCE could have snooped on t=
he IGP. But BGP-LS provides an export mechanism and importantly adds to tha=
t some policy filters to determine what is exported thus giving the network=
 some control over what is exported.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agreed=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">FWIW, <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pc=
e-pcep-ls/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodyl=
ee-pce-pcep-ls/</a> proposes using PCEP for the same function. The argument=
 in favor is that a PCE has to implement PCEP anyway, so why not include th=
e LS export as well. The argument against is that BGP-LS has wider applicab=
ility and that it will typically be exported from an ASBR which already sup=
ports BGP.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=C2=
=A0Gyan&gt; Makes sense and in some ways cuts out the middle man BGP-LS ove=
rloading burden on BGP.=C2=A0 Great idea.=C2=A0 I like it.=C2=A0 Another ve=
ry valuable tool in the operators toolbox.<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">&gt; However now BGP-LS can also be used for other functions no=
w such as usage as<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; I am a Shep=
herd reviewing a draft for BGP-LS usage for BIER to use BGP-LS to<u></u><u>=
</u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; gather the elements internals within BI=
ER using the same BGP-LS data structures<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">&gt; to populate with BIER specific information to graph the BIER top=
ology.=C2=A0 So here<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; we are no=
t doing any path computations as we are using in this use case=C2=A0 for<u>=
</u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; NMS type function to gather data=
 for ZTP &amp; Day N provisioning.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal">&gt;<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&g=
t; Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and being=
 able<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; to provision TS and capt=
uring the TS Enhanced VPN RT &amp; resource information<u></u><u></u></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gatheri=
ng &amp; ZTP like controller style<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
&gt; provisioning.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is there a fundamental diff=
erence between ZTP &amp; Day N provisioning and path computation for traffi=
c engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all determining how to configure t=
he network to best carry traffic.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
u></u>=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; In my mind the fundamental difference would be TE - cont=
rol plane TEDs and forwarding plane routing action path computation and ins=
tantiation of path action as compare to a NMS type Netconf/Yang configurati=
on snippet push function not routing or TE related.</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;bo=
rder-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">=
<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break=
-word"><div class=3D"m_2775002839800588745WordSection1"><div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&g=
t; It does seem as though BGP-LS as its a means of &quot;data gathering&quo=
t; &quot;dump truck&quot;<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; of a=
nything with the kitchen sink included to build any type of topological gra=
ph<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; of literally anything under=
 the sun.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">Remembering Yakov Rekhter saying you could use BGP to=
 transport Shakespeare. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is a =
tension with any protocol BGP-LS, PCEP, etc., etc. Stuff gets added, furthe=
r use gets made.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></=
u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; Understood=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">BGP-LS w=
as intended to export routing information =E2=80=9Cnorthbound=E2=80=9D from=
 the network.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=
=C2=A0Gyan&gt; Understood=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;=C2=A0=
I see that is a nice to leverage but it does in fact blur the lines of NMS =
Netconf/Yang<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; Controller based =
functionality and=C2=A0 PCE path computation functionality and SDN<u></u><u=
></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; controller based ZTP functionality int=
o a single ubiquitous server that can do all of<u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; the above and use BGP-LS to accomplish the &quot;kitche=
n sink&quot; tasks.=C2=A0 It does however<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">&gt; transform BGP to be an NMS tool but a &quot;tool&quot; and not =
just the original function<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; whi=
ch it was intended NLRI network reachability.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Not sure that BGP=
-LS is BGP. But I agree that BGP-LS is =E2=80=9Can NMS tool=E2=80=9D.<u></u=
><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I might argue that BGP distributing poli=
cies from installation on PEs is an NMS protocol.<u></u><u></u></p></div><d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agreed.=
=C2=A0 One way to look at it is that as BGP primary function is routing, ho=
wever there many code points that are not necessarily routing related , and=
 BGP provides the ability to have each code point or SAFI or parameters as =
a discrete container - to be enabled as desired, however with that flexibil=
ity not all containers have to be used by the operator.=C2=A0 So the operat=
or can custom tailor what SAFI, codepoint or parameters are required for th=
e implementation per design requirements and only enable those that are nec=
essary.=C2=A0 So that would of course be the case for BGP-LS.=C2=A0 So in t=
hat case BGP can be utilized for routing or as an NMS tool extending Netcon=
f/Yang via BGP-LS or any other function that requires import of data struct=
ures. =C2=A0 And that=E2=80=99s Ok.=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></div></div>=
</blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border=
-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"pu=
rple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_2775002839800588745Wor=
dSection1"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; Am I off base and please let me know a=
s its BGP-LS is being way over leveraged.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; There are pros &amp; cons to everything but I thought I=
 would bring up to the WG as<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; a=
n important discussion point.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Who are we to argue with real imp=
lementations? Assuming that there is a push for implementation and deployme=
nt, then the thing to look for is =E2=80=9Charm=E2=80=9D. Does this use of =
BGP-LS cause harm, sow confusion, risk destabilising the network? Should it=
 use a different code point to be distinguishable?<u></u><u></u></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>Gyan&gt; Completely agree.=C2=A0 I agre=
e negative impact if any exist.=C2=A0 See my comments above.=C2=A0 As BGP h=
as the ability to compartmentalize SAFI, codepoints and parameters into con=
tainers to be used discretely for specific use cases tailored to the operat=
ors need. So it may feel that we are throwing the kitchen sink at BGP and a=
s that may not have been the intention way back but as BGP is customizable =
BGP can truly be a ubiquitous tool in the operators toolbox.<u></u></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal">I think the argument that =E2=80=9Cthere is already anot=
her protocol for doing this=E2=80=9D is worth examining. But we have to be =
careful that it doesn=E2=80=99t get us stuck, or force everyone to do somet=
hing they don=E2=80=99t want to do. After all, we could carry any protocol =
message using Netconf/YANG, but we don=E2=80=99t do =E2=80=9CRSVP-TE over N=
etconf=E2=80=9D.</p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agreed</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Many thanks for your feedback!</div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:r=
gb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_2775002839800588745WordSection1">=
<div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u><u></u></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best,<u></u=
><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Adrian<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=
=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blan=
k"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" w=
idth=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></a><br></p><p s=
tyle=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Ari=
al,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=
=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia,=
 serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></fon=
t><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></fo=
nt></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><=
i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0=
<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div>

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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>
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Thread-Topic: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Subject: Re: [bess] comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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From: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
To: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/e-MY4o15C_SnB5w-MT95Ydg7W8w>
Subject: Re: [bess] [**EXTERNAL**] Re: comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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To: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Sami Boutros <boutros.sami@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bess] [**EXTERNAL**] Re: comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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Subject: Re: [bess] [**EXTERNAL**] Re: comments on draft-boutros-bess-elan-services-over-sr
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From nobody Sat Nov 21 07:47:07 2020
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/MuthwyAZYks_R28m-Sa2dhGueAA>
Subject: Re: [bess] [Bier] PCE Controller & SDN Controller & Netconf/Yang NMS Controller - lines blurred and can the names be used ubiquitously meaning the same
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Hi again Gyan,

=20

I think we=E2=80=99re narrowing down and getting somewhat esoteric for =
the mailing lists we=E2=80=99re spamming.

> Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and =
being able
> to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN RT & resource =
information
> and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gathering & ZTP like =
controller style
> provisioning.=20

Is there a fundamental difference between ZTP & Day N provisioning and =
path computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all =
determining how to configure the network to best carry traffic.=20

Gyan> In my mind the fundamental difference would be TE - control plane =
TEDs and
forwarding plane routing action path computation and instantiation of =
path action
as compare to a NMS type Netconf/Yang configuration snippet push =
function not
routing or TE related.

=20

[Adrian] I think it depends. The protocols are just tools. You could =
have a centralised TE system with a PCE to preform computations, but you =
can use any combinations of protocols to extract information from the =
network (IGPs, BGP-LS, PCEP-LS, Netconf, =E2=80=A6) and any combination =
of protocols to program the network devices to install TE paths, reserve =
resources, and configure traffic forwarding rules (PCEP, RSVP-TE, =
Netconf, =E2=80=A6).

=20

Cheers,

Adrian


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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi again =
Gyan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I think =
we=E2=80=99re narrowing down and getting somewhat esoteric for the =
mailing lists we=E2=80=99re =
spamming.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&gt; =
Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and being =
able<br>&gt; to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN RT &amp; =
resource information<br>&gt; and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data =
gathering &amp; ZTP like controller style<br>&gt; =
provisioning.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Is there a =
fundamental difference between ZTP &amp; Day N provisioning and path =
computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all =
determining how to configure the network to best carry =
traffic.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal>Gyan&gt; In my mind the fundamental difference would =
be TE - control plane TEDs and<br>forwarding plane routing action path =
computation and instantiation of path action<br>as compare to a NMS type =
Netconf/Yang configuration snippet push function not<br>routing or TE =
related.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>[Adrian] I think it depends. The protocols are just =
tools. You could have a centralised TE system with a PCE to preform =
computations, but you can use any combinations of protocols to extract =
information from the network (IGPs, BGP-LS, PCEP-LS, Netconf, =E2=80=A6) =
and any combination of protocols to program the network devices to =
install TE paths, reserve resources, and configure traffic forwarding =
rules (PCEP, RSVP-TE, Netconf, =E2=80=A6).<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Adrian<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></h=
tml>
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--_000_49FAF199946C44D98BE4CF32AAC8A3B2ciscocom_--


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From: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
To: "draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Last Call, IPR and Implementation Poll for draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:15:43 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/xuM9eaqsLsRW-FujVM4EEeDgz08>
Subject: [bess] WG Last Call, IPR and Implementation Poll for draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05
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--_000_VI1PR0701MB69918DAD0FDF3C7E18BB53E9EBF50VI1PR0701MB6991_
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This email starts a two-week working group last call for draft-ietf-bess-sr=
v6-services-05 [1]

Please review the draft and send any comments to the BESS list. Also, pleas=
e indicate if you support publishing the draft as a standards track RFC.

This poll runs until Monday 14th December 2020.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this document please res=
pond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevan=
t undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from all the=
 Authors and Contributors.
There is currently one IPR disclosure.

In addition, we are polling for knowledge of implementations of this draft,=
 per the BESS policy in [2].

Thank you,
Matthew & Stephane


[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services/
[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-fareas=
t-language:EN-GB">This email starts a two-week working group last call for&=
nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">draft-ie=
tf-bess-srv6-services-05 [1]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-G=
B">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-fareas=
t-language:EN-GB">Please review the draft and send any comments to the BESS=
 list. Also, please indicate if you support publishing the draft as a stand=
ards track RFC.</span><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-fareas=
t-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-langu=
age:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-fareas=
t-language:EN-GB">This&nbsp;poll&nbsp;runs until Monday 14th&nbsp;December =
2020.</span><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-fareas=
t-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-langu=
age:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-G=
B">We are also&nbsp;polling for knowledge of any undisclosed&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;=
that applies to this Document, to ensure that&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;has been disclo=
sed in compliance with IETF&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669
 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-G=
B"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-G=
B">If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this document please =
respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any rele=
vant undisclosed&nbsp;IPR. The Document won't
 progress without answers from all the Authors and Contributors.&nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">There is currently one&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;dis=
closure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">In addition, we are polling for knowledg=
e of implementations</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black;mso-farea=
st-language:EN-GB">of this draft, per the BESS policy in [2]. &nbsp;&nbsp;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-G=
B"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Thank you,</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Matthew &amp; Stephane</span><span style=
=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black;mso-fare=
ast-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1]<span class=3D"apple-converte=
d-space">&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-=
srv6-services/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-servi=
ces/</a><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[2]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"https://mailarchive=
.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw" target=3D"_blank" titl=
e=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw=
">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a=
></span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
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From: "Krishna Muddenahally Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)" <kriswamy@cisco.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] WG Last Call, IPR and Implementation Poll for draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Last Call, IPR and Implementation Poll for draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05
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To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Last Call, IPR and Implementation Poll for draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05
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Subject: Re: [bess] WG Last Call, IPR and Implementation Poll for draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05
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Matthew, Stephane,

I'm not aware of non-disclosed IPR.
As a co-author, I support publishing this draft as a standards track RFC.

Regards,
--Bruno

From: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) [mailto:matthew.bocci@nokia.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 6:16 PM
To: draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org
Subject: WG Last Call, IPR and Implementation Poll for draft-ietf-bess-srv6=
-services-05

This email starts a two-week working group last call for draft-ietf-bess-sr=
v6-services-05 [1]

Please review the draft and send any comments to the BESS list. Also, pleas=
e indicate if you support publishing the draft as a standards track RFC.

This poll runs until Monday 14th December 2020.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this document please res=
pond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevan=
t undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from all the=
 Authors and Contributors.
There is currently one IPR disclosure.

In addition, we are polling for knowledge of implementations of this draft,=
 per the BESS policy in [2].

Thank you,
Matthew & Stephane


[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services/
[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw


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" Name=3D"Table List 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table List 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table List 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table List 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table List 7"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table List 8"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table 3D effects 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table 3D effects 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table 3D effects 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table Contemporary"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table Elegant"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table Professional"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table Subtle 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table Subtle 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table Web 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table Web 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table Web 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Balloon Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" Name=3D"Table Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Table Theme"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" Name=3D"Placeholder Te=
xt"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"1" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"No=
 Spacing"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
nt 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
ccent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
ccent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
nt 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" Name=3D"Revision"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"34" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"L=
ist Paragraph"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"29" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Q=
uote"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"30" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"I=
ntense Quote"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
nt 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
nt 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
nt 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
nt 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 1=
"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
ccent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
nt 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
nt 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
nt 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
ccent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
ccent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
nt 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
nt 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
nt 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
nt 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
nt 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 2=
"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
ccent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
nt 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
nt 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
nt 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
ccent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
ccent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
nt 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
nt 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
nt 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
nt 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
nt 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 3=
"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
ccent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
nt 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
nt 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
nt 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
ccent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
ccent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
nt 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
nt 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
nt 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
nt 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
nt 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 4=
"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
ccent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
nt 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
nt 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
nt 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
ccent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
ccent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
nt 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
nt 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
nt 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
nt 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
nt 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 5=
"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
ccent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
nt 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
nt 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
nt 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
ccent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
ccent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
nt 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
nt 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
nt 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
nt 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
nt 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 6=
"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
ccent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
nt 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
nt 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"19" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"S=
ubtle Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"21" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"I=
ntense Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"31" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"S=
ubtle Reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"32" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"I=
ntense Reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"33" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"B=
ook Title"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"37" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
WhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Bibliography"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
WhenUsed=3D"true" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"TOC Heading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"41" Name=3D"Plain Table 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"42" Name=3D"Plain Table 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"43" Name=3D"Plain Table 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"44" Name=3D"Plain Table 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"45" Name=3D"Plain Table 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"40" Name=3D"Grid Table Light"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"Grid Table 1 Light=
"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"Grid Table 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"Grid Table 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"Grid Table 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"Grid Table 5 Dark"=
/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"Grid Table 6 Color=
ful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"Grid Table 7 Color=
ful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"Grid Table 1 Light=
 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"Grid Table 2 Accen=
t 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"Grid Table 3 Accen=
t 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"Grid Table 4 Accen=
t 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"Grid Table 5 Dark =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"Grid Table 6 Color=
ful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"Grid Table 7 Color=
ful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"Grid Table 1 Light=
 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"Grid Table 2 Accen=
t 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"Grid Table 3 Accen=
t 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"Grid Table 4 Accen=
t 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"Grid Table 5 Dark =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"Grid Table 6 Color=
ful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"Grid Table 7 Color=
ful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"Grid Table 1 Light=
 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"Grid Table 2 Accen=
t 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"Grid Table 3 Accen=
t 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"Grid Table 4 Accen=
t 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"Grid Table 5 Dark =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"Grid Table 6 Color=
ful Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"Grid Table 7 Color=
ful Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"Grid Table 1 Light=
 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"Grid Table 2 Accen=
t 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"Grid Table 3 Accen=
t 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"Grid Table 4 Accen=
t 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"Grid Table 5 Dark =
Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"Grid Table 6 Color=
ful Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"Grid Table 7 Color=
ful Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"Grid Table 1 Light=
 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"Grid Table 2 Accen=
t 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"Grid Table 3 Accen=
t 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"Grid Table 4 Accen=
t 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"Grid Table 5 Dark =
Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"Grid Table 6 Color=
ful Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"Grid Table 7 Color=
ful Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"Grid Table 1 Light=
 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"Grid Table 2 Accen=
t 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"Grid Table 3 Accen=
t 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"Grid Table 4 Accen=
t 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"Grid Table 5 Dark =
Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"Grid Table 6 Color=
ful Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"Grid Table 7 Color=
ful Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"List Table 1 Light=
"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"List Table 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"List Table 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"List Table 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"List Table 5 Dark"=
/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"List Table 6 Color=
ful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"List Table 7 Color=
ful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"List Table 1 Light=
 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"List Table 2 Accen=
t 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"List Table 3 Accen=
t 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"List Table 4 Accen=
t 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"List Table 5 Dark =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"List Table 6 Color=
ful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"List Table 7 Color=
ful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"List Table 1 Light=
 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"List Table 2 Accen=
t 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"List Table 3 Accen=
t 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"List Table 4 Accen=
t 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"List Table 5 Dark =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"List Table 6 Color=
ful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"List Table 7 Color=
ful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"List Table 1 Light=
 Accent 3"/>
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35.4pt">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Matthew, Stephan=
e,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">I&#8217;m not aw=
are of non-disclosed IPR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">As a co-author, =
I support
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;ms=
o-fareast-language:EN-GB">publishing this draft as a standards track RFC.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">--Bruno</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast=
-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-a=
scii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family=
:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-fareast-language:FR">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;;mso-fareast-language:FR"> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia
 - GB) [mailto:matthew.bocci@nokia.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 30, 2020 6:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> WG Last Call, IPR and Implementation Poll for draft-ietf-be=
ss-srv6-services-05<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">This email starts a two-week work=
ing group last call for&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:bla=
ck;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">draft-ietf-bess-srv6=
-services-05
 [1]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Please review the draft and send =
any comments to the BESS list. Also, please indicate if you support publish=
ing the draft as a standards track RFC.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D=
"color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">This&nbsp;poll&nbsp;runs until Mo=
nday 14th&nbsp;December 2020.</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:bla=
ck;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">We are also&nbsp;polling for know=
ledge of any undisclosed&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;that applies to this Document, to en=
sure that&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;has been disclosed in compliance with IETF&nbsp;IPR=
&nbsp;rules
 (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">If you are listed as an Author or=
 a Contributor of this document please respond to this email and indicate w=
hether or not you are aware of any relevant
 undisclosed&nbsp;IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from all=
 the Authors and Contributors.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">There is current=
ly one&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;disclosure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">In addition, we =
are polling for knowledge of implementations</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">of this draft, per the BESS poli=
cy in [2]. &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Thank you,</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fare=
ast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Matthew &amp; St=
ephane</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN=
-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-=
language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black;mso-a=
nsi-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps=
: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adju=
st: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[1]<span=
 class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-ietf-bess-srv6-services/</a></span></span><span class=3D"apple-converte=
d-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US">[2]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a hre=
f=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw=
" target=3D"_blank" title=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3=
X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1t=
Tqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw</a></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-a=
nsi-language:EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Last Call, IPR and Implementation Poll for draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 18:57:57 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/ahOCnaawv2CULHyjH95xf2KEYmg>
Subject: Re: [bess] WG Last Call, IPR and Implementation Poll for draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05
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Hi,

Not aware of any relevant IPR.
As co-author, I support the publication of this document as standards track=
 RFC.

Thank you.
Jorge

From: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
Date: Monday, November 30, 2020 at 6:16 PM
To: draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@ietf.org <draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@i=
etf.org>, bess@ietf.org <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: WG Last Call, IPR and Implementation Poll for draft-ietf-bess-srv6=
-services-05
This email starts a two-week working group last call for draft-ietf-bess-sr=
v6-services-05 [1]

Please review the draft and send any comments to the BESS list. Also, pleas=
e indicate if you support publishing the draft as a standards track RFC.

This poll runs until Monday 14th December 2020.

We are also polling for knowledge of any undisclosed IPR that applies to th=
is Document, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF =
IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

If you are listed as an Author or a Contributor of this document please res=
pond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevan=
t undisclosed IPR. The Document won't progress without answers from all the=
 Authors and Contributors.
There is currently one IPR disclosure.

In addition, we are polling for knowledge of implementations of this draft,=
 per the BESS policy in [2].

Thank you,
Matthew & Stephane


[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services/
[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Not aware of any relevant IPR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">As co-author, I support the publication of this document as standards tra=
ck RFC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Jorge<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From: </span></b><span style=3D"color:black"=
>Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;matthew.bocci@nokia.com&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 30, 2020 at 6:16 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services@ietf.org &lt;draft-ietf-bess-srv6-=
services@ietf.org&gt;, bess@ietf.org &lt;bess@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>WG Last Call, IPR and Implementation Poll for draft-ietf-be=
ss-srv6-services-05<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">This email starts a two-week working group =
last call for&nbsp;draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-05 [1]</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Please review the draft and send any commen=
ts to the BESS list. Also, please indicate if you support publishing the dr=
aft as a standards track RFC.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">This&nbsp;poll&nbsp;runs until Monday 14th&=
nbsp;December 2020.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">We are also&nbsp;polling for knowledge of a=
ny undisclosed&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;that applies to this Document, to ensure that&=
nbsp;IPR&nbsp;has been disclosed in compliance with IETF&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;rule=
s
 (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">If you are listed as an Author or a Contrib=
utor of this document please respond to this email and indicate whether or =
not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed&nbsp;IPR.
 The Document won't progress without answers from all the Authors and Contr=
ibutors.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">There is currently one&nbs=
p;IPR&nbsp;disclosure.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">In addition, we are pollin=
g for knowledge of implementations</span>
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">of =
this draft, per the BESS policy in [2]. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Thank you,</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Matthew &amp; Stephane</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0=
);font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-we=
bkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px=
">
<span style=3D"color:black">[1]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;=
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services/"=
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services/</a></span>=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack">[2]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"https=
://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4rg56SEdkjqDpw" target=
=3D"_blank" title=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_v=
PC4rg56SEdkjqDpw">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bess/cG3X1tTqb_vPC4=
rg56SEdkjqDpw</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
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