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Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-07 Thread-Index: AQHSXXJ3pLtQUw9UTkO4OUC5WRZooqEnLgaA Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 08:36:19 +0000 Message-ID: <571231A9-2757-4B86-BC65-2491B6B7F882@cisco.com> References: <148253493203.16856.4857620752315294427.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148253493203.16856.4857620752315294427.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.196.92.60] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <7F215CA95AFAD948AA31E78DBCFD7D78@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri.all@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Review of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-07 X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0LgyNkgr8gor; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 06:17:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBD411295E7; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 06:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE06D4A7E64; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 06:17:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1483453060; bh=Qiy/DWrXN11rA4XgX8fpM4X99ExZaA6cCgb+K4S+jdg=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=ZlfOVLQIpg1RQfOJWIJmpbLFHJcR/5BpMtDZQxSq7bBNzxNa6F3eYZ2GiqQfqodBB nF9S2AC31f9dSMawLTwATKoUepYowYBV34KhCE2iqdPzA+1xiF+TGv+nH0NoPZvf0c w/XB8mBFD9dAepMMESK5ihz87MJAIfc6OSE4kwcU= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0C6FA1C0502; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 06:17:39 -0800 (PST) To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , "gen-art@ietf.org" References: <148253493203.16856.4857620752315294427.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <571231A9-2757-4B86-BC65-2491B6B7F882@cisco.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 09:17:38 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <571231A9-2757-4B86-BC65-2491B6B7F882@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri.all@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Review of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-07 X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 14:17:45 -0000 Yes, those fixes ddress my concerns. Thank you. Joel On 1/3/17 3:36 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: > Hi Joel, > > Thanks for your response. Please see inline > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel Halpern > Date: Saturday, 24 December 2016 at 4:45 AM > To: "gen-art@ietf.org" > Cc: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri.all@ietf.org" > Subject: Review of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-07 > Resent-From: > Resent-To: , , , , , , , Charles Eckel > Resent-Date: Saturday, 24 December 2016 at 4:45 AM > > Reviewer: Joel Halpern > Review result: Ready with Nits > > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just > like any other last call comments. > > For more information, please see the FAQ at > > . > > Document: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-?? > Reviewer: Joel Halpern > Review Date: 2016-12-23 > IETF LC End Date: 2017-01-12 > IESG Telechat date: 2017-01-19 > > Summary: This document is ready for publication as a Proposed Standard > RFC. I have a few minor comments that should be considered s they may > improve future understanding of the document. > > Major issues: None > > Minor issues: > In reading section 4.2 and 4.3, I believe I can guess at certain > intended behaviors, but it is not as clearly stated as I think is > desirable. There is also one odd statement in section 4.3 > > Taking the odd statement first, the text in section 4.3 refers the > active answerer "towards > the IP address and port of the offerer". But when WebSockets is > used, one does not connect to the IP address and port, but to the URI > specified. > > I will replace the text as below: > > EXISTING: > Towards the IP address and port of the offerer using the procedures described > in [RFC6455] > > NEW: > Towards the URI specified in a=ws-uri or a=wss-uri attribute using procedures described > in [RFC6455] > > I believe that the intent in 4.2 and 4.3 is that whichever side > will be "passive" is required to provide an a=ws-uri or a=wss-uri so > that the other side can establish the connection to the URI. But > section 4.2 does not say that. > > > EXISTING: > The offerer SHOULD assign the SDP "setup" attribute with a value of > "active" (the offerer will be the initiator of the outgoing TCP > connection), unless the offerer insists on being a receiver of an > incoming connection, in which case the offerer SHOULD use a value of > "passive". The offerer MUST NOT assign an SDP "setup" attribute with > a "holdconn" value. > > NEW: > The offerer SHOULD assign the SDP "setup" attribute with a value of > "active" (the offerer will be the initiator of the outgoing TCP > connection), unless the offerer insists on being a receiver of an > incoming connection, in which case the offerer SHOULD use a value of > "passive". The offerer MUST NOT assign an SDP "setup" attribute with > a "holdconn" value. If the “setup” attribute has a value “passive” it MUST also > have URI in the a=ws-uri or a=wss-uri attribute. > > And the text in section4.3 that talks > about providing the URI in the a= does not qualify whether it is > required with active, passive, or both. > > > NEW: > If the answers assigns SDP “setup” attribute with “passive”, then it MUST have URI in either > a=ws-uri or a=wss-uri attribute. > > Does this look good and makes it more clear ? > > Regards, > Ram > > Nits/editorial comments: N/A > > > > From nobody Tue Jan 3 11:44:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C047129B2F; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 11:44:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f26emO4Wpzm5; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 11:43:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F342C129B2E; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 11:43:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=21506; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1483472638; x=1484682238; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; 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v03JhuSg013608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 Jan 2017 19:43:57 GMT Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com (173.36.7.28) by XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com (173.37.102.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 13:43:56 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) by XCH-ALN-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 13:43:56 -0600 From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" To: Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] [bfcpbis] m= line protocol in case of ICE Thread-Index: AQHSZfm46LjmSy7T7UmDYerMTbGdsg== Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 19:43:55 +0000 Message-ID: <633D3491-83B1-421F-B48C-0A61B1314E99@cisco.com> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B4BE3AE83@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <16B5D8FF-F132-4B09-84D6-AE964CA7858D@cisco.com> <64E8A5CF-89ED-4673-AF23-2C960395C3EF@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <64E8A5CF-89ED-4673-AF23-2C960395C3EF@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: 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[209.85.216.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k143sm17289079qke.37.2017.01.03.12.08.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Jan 2017 12:08:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt0-f169.google.com with SMTP id k15so233896116qtg.3; Tue, 03 Jan 2017 12:08:05 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.200.45.144 with SMTP id p16mr589450qta.141.1483474085308; Tue, 03 Jan 2017 12:08:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.136.230 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 12:08:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <633D3491-83B1-421F-B48C-0A61B1314E99@cisco.com> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B4BE3AE83@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <16B5D8FF-F132-4B09-84D6-AE964CA7858D@cisco.com> <64E8A5CF-89ED-4673-AF23-2C960395C3EF@cisco.com> <633D3491-83B1-421F-B48C-0A61B1314E99@cisco.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 15:08:04 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1140396ce390540545363931 Archived-At: Cc: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , Christer Holmberg , "mmusic@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m= line protocol in case of ICE X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 20:08:10 -0000 --001a1140396ce390540545363931 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charles, I do not think not supporting ICE tcp candidates will quite work since it will reduce the usability considerably. The simplest way to move forward is to define a different transport tag for BFCP with RFC 4571 over TCP not to confuse it with TCP/BFCP. It can be TCP/UDP/BFCP (I know this looks strange and I am open to other suggestions, such as calling all packet based protocols DBFCP). In general what I am proposing is: TCP/BFCP -- existing BFCP over TCP TLS/BFCP -- exisitng BFCP over TLS UDP/BFCP -- BFCP over UDP or ICE udp candidates TCP/UDP/BFCP -- BFCP with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or over ICE tcp candidates UDP/DTLS/BFCP -- BFCP over DTLS or over ICE udp candidates TCP/DTLS/BFCP -- BFCP over DTLS with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or over ICE tcp candidates Legacy BFCP over TCP or TLS cannot work with ICE or NAT. Other protocols can work with NAT or ICE using normal ICE procedures. If we call all packet based protocols DBFCP then transport tags will be: TCP/BFCP -- existing BFCP over TCP TLS/BFCP -- exisitng BFCP over TLS UDP/DBFCP -- DBFCP over UDP or ICE udp candidates TCP/DBFCP -- DBFCP with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or over ICE tcp candidate= s UDP/DTLS/DBFCP -- DBFCP over DTLS or over ICE udp candidates TCP/DTLS/DBFCP -- DBFCP over DTLS with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or over ICE tcp candidates Since BFCP over UDP (or other packet based protocols) is quite different due to timers and transmission restrictions, it can have a different transport tag and even be defined in a separate RFC. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) wrote: > Crickets=E2=80=A6 > > If no one is or has plans for using ICE with TCP/BFCP, perhaps it is best > to state that as of this rev of the BFCP spec, BFCP with TCP candidates i= s > not defined. Future updates to the spec may define this usage. > > > > Cheers, > > Charles > > > > *From: *mmusic on behalf of Charles Eckel < > eckelcu@cisco.com> > *Date: *Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:01 PM > *To: *Roman Shpount > *Cc: *"ice@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , > Christer Holmberg , "mmusic@ietf.org" < > mmusic@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [MMUSIC] [bfcpbis] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE > > > > I have no experience with ICE with TCP candidates so hopefully others can > chime in as to what they think is a workable solution. > > > > Cheers, > > Charles > > > > *From: *Roman Shpount > *Date: *Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 12:34 PM > *To: *Charles Eckel > *Cc: *Alan Ford , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" < > bfcpbis@ietf.org>, "ice@ietf.org" , "mmusic@ietf.org" < > mmusic@ietf.org>, Christer Holmberg > *Subject: *Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE > > > > Charles, > > > > RFC 6544 Sending Media (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6544#section-10.1)= says > that "The framing defined in RFC 4571 > MUST be used when sending media." > This means the protocol used is not TCP/BFCP which is using application > level framing. I believe that STUN/Media demultiplexing requirements woul= d > prevent using TCP/BFCP directly with ice tcp candidates without redesign = of > either ICE TCP or TCP/BFCP. > > > > Furthermore there are other implied ICE requirements that I outlined > before (switching between udp and tpc candidates, existence of SBC which > terminate ICE only but do not support the embedded protocol) because of > which ice tcp is considered unreliable transport and will require > fragmentation support and re-transmit timers that are not part of TCP/BFC= P. > > > > Regards, > > > _____________ > Roman Shpount > > > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) > wrote: > > Roman, > > > > Why would selecting TCP/BFCP as transport violate RFC 6544? Perhaps it > does, but after a quick scan I am not sure why. > > > > Cheers, > > Charles > > > > *From: *Roman Shpount > *Date: *Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 10:38 AM > *To: *Charles Eckel > *Cc: *Alan Ford , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" < > bfcpbis@ietf.org>, "ice@ietf.org" , "mmusic@ietf.org" < > mmusic@ietf.org>, Christer Holmberg > *Subject: *Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE > > > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) < > eckelcu@cisco.com> wrote: > > It seems to me that the most straightforward approach would be to mandate > support for BFCP over UDP when using ICE, use UDP as the default candidat= e, > and signal the BFCP m-line as if it is BFCP over UDP. If we can mandate t= he > use of DTLS, that would be even better. > > Thoughts? > > > > > > I agree. > > > > The only issue that I still have, if DTLS is not used, what protocol is > used when ICE tcp candidate is selected for transport. Is this TCP/BFCP > (which goes against RFC6544) or is it UDP/BFCP with RFC4571 framing? If = it > is UDP/BFCP with RFC4571 framing, what transport tag should be used in th= e > re-INVITE which is sent after ICE nomination with only selected candidate= ? > Should it be TCP/UDP/BFCP or something similar? > > > > Regards, > > _____________ > Roman Shpount > > > > > > --001a1140396ce390540545363931 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Charles,

I do not think not supporting = ICE tcp candidates will quite work since it will reduce the usability consi= derably. The simplest way to move forward is to define a different transpor= t tag for BFCP =C2=A0with RFC 4571 over TCP not to confuse it with TCP/BFCP= . It can be TCP/UDP/BFCP (I know this looks strange and I am open to other = suggestions, such as calling all packet based protocols DBFCP).=C2=A0
=

In general what I am proposing is:

=
TCP/BFCP -- existing BFCP over TCP
TLS/BFCP -- exisitng BFCP= over TLS
UDP/BFCP -- BFCP over UDP or ICE udp candidates
TCP/UDP/BFCP -- BFCP with RFC 4571 framing=C2=A0over TCP or over ICE tcp= candidates
UDP/DTLS/BFCP -- BFCP over DTLS or over ICE udp c= andidates
TCP/DTLS/BFCP -- BFCP over DTLS with RFC 4571 framing= =C2=A0over TCP or over ICE tcp candidates

Legacy B= FCP over TCP or TLS cannot work with ICE or NAT. Other protocols can work w= ith NAT or ICE using normal ICE procedures.

If we = call all packet based protocols DBFCP then transport tags will be:

TCP/BFCP -- existing BFCP over TCP
TLS/BFCP= -- exisitng BFCP over TLS
UDP/DBFCP -- DBFCP over UDP or ICE udp= candidates
TCP/DBFCP -- DBFCP with RFC 4571 framing=C2=A0over TC= P or over ICE tcp candidates
UDP/DTLS/DBFCP -- DBFCP over DTL= S or over ICE udp candidates
TCP/DTLS/DBFCP -- DBFCP over DTLS wi= th RFC 4571 framing=C2=A0over TCP or over ICE tcp candidates

=
Since BFCP over UDP (or other packet based protocols) is q= uite different due to timers and transmission restrictions, it can have a d= ifferent transport tag and even be defined in a separate RFC.
Regards,

__= ___________
Roman Shpount

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Charles Ecke= l (eckelcu) <eckelcu@cisco.com> wrote:

Crickets=E2=80=A6

If no one is or has plans for using ICE with TCP/BFC= P, perhaps it is best to state that as of this rev of the BFCP spec, BFCP w= ith TCP candidates is not defined. Future updates to the spec may define th= is usage.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Charles

=C2=A0

F= rom: mmusic <mmusic-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Charles Eckel <eckelcu@cisco.com>
Date: Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:01 PM
To: Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Cc: "ice@ietf= .org" <ice@ie= tf.org>, "bfcpbis@ietf.org" <bfcpbis@ietf.org>, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@eric= sson.com>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] [bfcpbis] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE=

=C2=A0

I have no experience with ICE with TCP candidates so= hopefully others can chime in as to what they think is a workable solution= .

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Charles

=C2=A0

F= rom: Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>=
Date: Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 12:34 PM
To: Charles Eckel <eckelcu@cisco.com>
Cc: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>, "bfcpbis@ietf.org" <bfcpbis@ietf.org>, "ice@ietf.org" <ice@ietf.org>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <= ;mmusic@ietf.org&g= t;, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE

=C2=A0

Charles,

=C2=A0

RFC 6544 Sending Media (https://tools.ietf.org/h= tml/rfc6544#section-10.1)=C2=A0says that "The framing defined in RFC 4571 MUST be used when sending media." This means the = protocol used is not TCP/BFCP which is using application level framing. I believe that STUN/Media demultiplexing requirements would preve= nt using TCP/BFCP directly with ice tcp candidates without redesign of eith= er ICE TCP or TCP/BFCP.

=C2=A0

Further= more=C2=A0there are other implied ICE requirements that I outlined before (= switching between udp and tpc candidates, existence of SBC which terminate = ICE only but do not support the embedded protocol) because of which ice tcp is considered unreliable transport and = will require fragmentation support and re-transmit timers that are not part= of TCP/BFCP.

=C2=A0

Regards= ,


_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Charles Eckel (eckel= cu) <eckelcu@cisc= o.com> wrote:

Roman,

=C2=A0

Why would selecting TCP/BFCP as transport violate RF= C 6544? Perhaps it does, but after a quick scan I am not sure why.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Charles

=C2=A0

F= rom: Roman Shpount &l= t;roman@telurix.com<= /a>>
Date: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 10:38 AM
To: Charles Eckel <eckelcu@cisco.com>
Cc: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>, "bfcpbis@ietf.org" <bfcpbis@ietf.org>, "ice@ietf.org" <ice@ietf.org>= , "mmusic@ietf.or= g" <mmusic= @ietf.org>, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com&g= t;
Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE

=C2=A0

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Charles Eckel (eck= elcu) <eckelcu@ci= sco.com> wrote:

It seems to me that the most straightforward approac= h would be to mandate support for BFCP over UDP when using ICE, use UDP as = the default candidate, and signal the BFCP m-line as if it is BFCP over UDP. If we can mandate the use of DTLS, that would b= e even better.

Thoughts?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I agree.

=C2=A0

The only issue that I still have, if DTLS is not use= d, what protocol is used when ICE tcp candidate is=C2=A0selected for transp= ort. Is this TCP/BFCP (which goes against RFC6544) =C2=A0or is it UDP/BFCP with RFC4571 framing? If it is UDP/BFCP with RFC4571 framin= g, what transport tag should be used in the re-INVITE which is sent after I= CE nomination with only selected candidate? Should it be TCP/UDP/BFCP or so= mething similar?

=C2=A0

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


--001a1140396ce390540545363931-- From nobody Tue Jan 3 15:23:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6505C1296D2; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 15:23:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e1W2VjBQ6l5K; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 15:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x242.google.com (mail-wm0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AD26129489; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 15:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x242.google.com with SMTP id c85so50636396wmi.1; Tue, 03 Jan 2017 15:23:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=AkHARHZY+XfXLQV3sHh78JQyhU1tfmZeiNhVSbXkLnc=; b=R8b7nx3h9sjcj8vW/+hkDlOT6Q+PMl5eew0oKWnCYFX2X62ZpULrNBXW70XYsT6En8 rLTbhkWDo05p4yKyJWMlyTm8svY8B05hipzFtfEqYiXt5+EHihhxB1dyAAPKYqKqS5cR araqhUnU/xO6Ik91bgCr0Ck0D2i6O1j8fW/QNhlGebIIjmgUQfrM72cbtrVcN4Y6donc /ZqHAx1grpnNnRCfwEOrXPvUyZkmbtCf1tQHVeV5chswBqjrJcR+jOlZg8Y9H3FaktOP YCJaJd9J2GQwYJlmSqkqWfnx62VENZE6OH2Acvm6+Jlo1NHP3vkfRhB9Wp9AKNFvtvvb T22g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=AkHARHZY+XfXLQV3sHh78JQyhU1tfmZeiNhVSbXkLnc=; b=ggq2jWtHqeJQ55QzYpK50DCWqzYlh/Pg1VR14VXR3kS3LmS5fRgeL2QUxItuSjSWVp q//nyHJCtWBvDfogYSyraleCAifzEd/LlmMUCSHnboZsv24skVONxb32ldL5gW0BYU9I HC74Sz+x4wmTCDGbMl0DuJopN4UiSrfQw2SkQdnxC3wnrHcQ5dD/zsBj3RC4kkTISXyu Pszt7KcGI8Etby0x3ZFiqmKVq4u8uKKWeycXxJqDir5upXF3gxduakZJi9sFSqjpBGA7 EsyGQA7cEhcXCdkl49YxSmSA09nN41buyBzjVEHU8zjOXZEN90ouvqKvsy1i249vdYEX ek/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJfyrrdfWKKoy8TJtjJcId+3xOi7iuPB6xM8FZfMVosOEX15KFpfvNY2nuPe43tGw== X-Received: by 10.28.9.80 with SMTP id 77mr56746324wmj.68.1483485817526; Tue, 03 Jan 2017 15:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from alans-mbp.lan ([37.152.254.113]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u78sm91845081wma.11.2017.01.03.15.23.36 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Jan 2017 15:23:36 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_08AEB35B-C7EA-4835-939D-0F9C88F9998B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alan Ford In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 23:23:35 +0000 Message-Id: <739486DE-BDFA-48FD-ACBA-41E45D208748@gmail.com> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B4BE3AE83@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <16B5D8FF-F132-4B09-84D6-AE964CA7858D@cisco.com> <64E8A5CF-89ED-4673-AF23-2C960395C3EF@cisco.com> <633D3491-83B1-421F-B48C-0A61B1314E99@cisco.com> To: Roman Shpount X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" , "mmusic@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , Christer Holmberg Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m= line protocol in case of ICE X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 23:23:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_08AEB35B-C7EA-4835-939D-0F9C88F9998B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Roman, Do any of those work for having both tcp and udp ICE candidates? I = assume any with ICE (+ 4571 framing) would be acceptable for that case? Ideally we need to support the case where an answer=E2=80=99s m-line = protocol does not match any of the candidates, so that an answer could = only support TCP (say) when the offerer supported both (and used a UDP = m-line protocol). If Christer=E2=80=99s proposed change which permitted = an answer not to match the m-line protocol in the ICE candidates was = accepted, that would resolve this case. Do you see any problems here? Regards, Alan > On 3 Jan 2017, at 20:08, Roman Shpount wrote: >=20 > Charles, >=20 > I do not think not supporting ICE tcp candidates will quite work since = it will reduce the usability considerably. The simplest way to move = forward is to define a different transport tag for BFCP with RFC 4571 = over TCP not to confuse it with TCP/BFCP. It can be TCP/UDP/BFCP (I know = this looks strange and I am open to other suggestions, such as calling = all packet based protocols DBFCP).=20 >=20 > In general what I am proposing is: >=20 > TCP/BFCP -- existing BFCP over TCP > TLS/BFCP -- exisitng BFCP over TLS > UDP/BFCP -- BFCP over UDP or ICE udp candidates > TCP/UDP/BFCP -- BFCP with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or over ICE tcp = candidates > UDP/DTLS/BFCP -- BFCP over DTLS or over ICE udp candidates > TCP/DTLS/BFCP -- BFCP over DTLS with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or over = ICE tcp candidates >=20 > Legacy BFCP over TCP or TLS cannot work with ICE or NAT. Other = protocols can work with NAT or ICE using normal ICE procedures. >=20 > If we call all packet based protocols DBFCP then transport tags will = be: >=20 > TCP/BFCP -- existing BFCP over TCP > TLS/BFCP -- exisitng BFCP over TLS > UDP/DBFCP -- DBFCP over UDP or ICE udp candidates > TCP/DBFCP -- DBFCP with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or over ICE tcp = candidates > UDP/DTLS/DBFCP -- DBFCP over DTLS or over ICE udp candidates > TCP/DTLS/DBFCP -- DBFCP over DTLS with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or = over ICE tcp candidates >=20 > Since BFCP over UDP (or other packet based protocols) is quite = different due to timers and transmission restrictions, it can have a = different transport tag and even be defined in a separate RFC. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > _____________ > Roman Shpount >=20 > On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) = > wrote: > Crickets=E2=80=A6 >=20 > If no one is or has plans for using ICE with TCP/BFCP, perhaps it is = best to state that as of this rev of the BFCP spec, BFCP with TCP = candidates is not defined. Future updates to the spec may define this = usage. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Charles >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: mmusic > on behalf of Charles Eckel = > > Date: Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:01 PM > To: Roman Shpount > > Cc: "ice@ietf.org " >, "bfcpbis@ietf.org " = >, Christer Holmberg = >, "mmusic@ietf.org = " > > Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] [bfcpbis] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE >=20 > =20 >=20 > I have no experience with ICE with TCP candidates so hopefully others = can chime in as to what they think is a workable solution. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Charles >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Roman Shpount > > Date: Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 12:34 PM > To: Charles Eckel > > Cc: Alan Ford >, = "bfcpbis@ietf.org " >, "ice@ietf.org " = >, "mmusic@ietf.org = " >, = Christer Holmberg > > Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE >=20 > =20 >=20 > Charles, >=20 > =20 >=20 > RFC 6544 Sending Media = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6544#section-10.1 = ) says that "The = framing defined in RFC 4571 MUST = be used when sending media." This means the protocol used is not = TCP/BFCP which is using application level framing. I believe that = STUN/Media demultiplexing requirements would prevent using TCP/BFCP = directly with ice tcp candidates without redesign of either ICE TCP or = TCP/BFCP. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Furthermore there are other implied ICE requirements that I outlined = before (switching between udp and tpc candidates, existence of SBC which = terminate ICE only but do not support the embedded protocol) because of = which ice tcp is considered unreliable transport and will require = fragmentation support and re-transmit timers that are not part of = TCP/BFCP. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 >=20 >=20 > _____________ > Roman Shpount >=20 > =20 >=20 > On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) = > wrote: >=20 > Roman, >=20 > =20 >=20 > Why would selecting TCP/BFCP as transport violate RFC 6544? Perhaps it = does, but after a quick scan I am not sure why. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Charles >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Roman Shpount > > Date: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 10:38 AM > To: Charles Eckel > > Cc: Alan Ford >, = "bfcpbis@ietf.org " >, "ice@ietf.org " = >, "mmusic@ietf.org = " >, = Christer Holmberg > > Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE >=20 > =20 >=20 > On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) = > wrote: >=20 > It seems to me that the most straightforward approach would be to = mandate support for BFCP over UDP when using ICE, use UDP as the default = candidate, and signal the BFCP m-line as if it is BFCP over UDP. If we = can mandate the use of DTLS, that would be even better. >=20 > Thoughts? >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > I agree. >=20 > =20 >=20 > The only issue that I still have, if DTLS is not used, what protocol = is used when ICE tcp candidate is selected for transport. Is this = TCP/BFCP (which goes against RFC6544) or is it UDP/BFCP with RFC4571 = framing? If it is UDP/BFCP with RFC4571 framing, what transport tag = should be used in the re-INVITE which is sent after ICE nomination with = only selected candidate? Should it be TCP/UDP/BFCP or something similar? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > _____________ > Roman Shpount >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > bfcpbis mailing list > bfcpbis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bfcpbis --Apple-Mail=_08AEB35B-C7EA-4835-939D-0F9C88F9998B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Roman,

Do = any of those work for having both tcp and udp ICE candidates? I assume = any with ICE (+ 4571 framing) would be acceptable for that = case?

Ideally = we need to support the case where an answer=E2=80=99s m-line protocol = does not match any of the candidates, so that an answer could only = support TCP (say) when the offerer supported both (and used a UDP m-line = protocol). If Christer=E2=80=99s proposed change which permitted an = answer not to match the m-line protocol in the ICE candidates was = accepted, that would resolve this case. Do you see any problems = here?

Regards,
Alan

On = 3 Jan 2017, at 20:08, Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com> = wrote:

Charles,

I do not think not supporting ICE tcp candidates will quite = work since it will reduce the usability considerably. The simplest way = to move forward is to define a different transport tag for BFCP =  with RFC 4571 over TCP not to confuse it with TCP/BFCP. It can be = TCP/UDP/BFCP (I know this looks strange and I am open to other = suggestions, such as calling all packet based protocols = DBFCP). 

In= general what I am proposing is:

TCP/BFCP -- existing BFCP over = TCP
TLS/BFCP -- exisitng BFCP over TLS
UDP/BFCP -- BFCP over UDP or ICE udp candidates
TCP/UDP/BFCP -- BFCP with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or = over ICE tcp candidates
UDP/DTLS/BFCP = -- BFCP over DTLS or over ICE udp candidates
TCP/DTLS/BFCP -- BFCP over DTLS with RFC 4571 = framing over TCP or over ICE tcp candidates

Legacy BFCP over TCP or TLS cannot work = with ICE or NAT. Other protocols can work with NAT or ICE using normal = ICE procedures.

If we call all packet based protocols DBFCP then transport = tags will be:

TCP/BFCP -- existing BFCP over TCP
TLS/BFCP -- exisitng BFCP over TLS
UDP/DBFCP -- DBFCP over UDP or ICE udp candidates
TCP/DBFCP -- DBFCP with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or = over ICE tcp candidates
UDP/DTLS/DBFCP= -- DBFCP over DTLS or over ICE udp candidates
TCP/DTLS/DBFCP -- DBFCP over DTLS with RFC 4571 = framing over TCP or over ICE tcp candidates

Since BFCP over UDP (or other = packet based protocols) is quite different due to timers and = transmission restrictions, it can have a different transport tag and = even be defined in a separate RFC.

Regards,

_____________
Roman = Shpount

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 2:43 = PM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu@cisco.com> wrote:

Crickets=E2=80=A6

If no one is or has plans for = using ICE with TCP/BFCP, perhaps it is best to state that as of this rev = of the BFCP spec, BFCP with TCP candidates is not defined. Future = updates to the spec may define this usage.

 

Cheers,

Charles

 

From: mmusic <mmusic-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Charles Eckel = <eckelcu@cisco.com>
Date: Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:01 PM
= To: Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Cc: "ice@ietf.org" <ice@ietf.org>, "bfcpbis@ietf.org" <bfcpbis@ietf.org>, Christer Holmberg = <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] [bfcpbis] m=3D line protocol in = case of ICE

 

I have no experience with ICE with TCP = candidates so hopefully others can chime in as to what they think is a = workable solution.

 

Cheers,

Charles

 

From: Roman Shpount = <roman@telurix.com>
Date: Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 12:34 PM
To: Charles Eckel <eckelcu@cisco.com>
Cc: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>, "bfcpbis@ietf.org" <bfcpbis@ietf.org>, "ice@ietf.org" <ice@ietf.org>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>, Christer Holmberg = <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m=3D line protocol in = case of ICE

 

Charles,

 

RFC 6544 Sending Media (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6544#section-10.1) says that "The framing defined in RFC = 4571 MUST be used = when sending media." This means the protocol used is not TCP/BFCP which = is using application level framing. I believe that STUN/Media demultiplexing requirements would = prevent using TCP/BFCP directly with ice tcp candidates without redesign = of either ICE TCP or TCP/BFCP.

 

Furthermore there are other implied ICE requirements = that I outlined before (switching between udp and tpc candidates, = existence of SBC which terminate ICE only but do not support the = embedded protocol) because of which ice tcp is considered unreliable transport = and will require fragmentation support and re-transmit timers that are = not part of TCP/BFCP.

 

Regards,


_____________
Roman Shpount

 

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 3:17 PM, = Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu@cisco.com> wrote:

Roman,

 

Why would selecting TCP/BFCP = as transport violate RFC 6544? Perhaps it does, but after a quick scan I = am not sure why.

 

Cheers,

Charles

 

From: Roman = Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 10:38 AM
To: Charles Eckel <eckelcu@cisco.com>
Cc: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>, "bfcpbis@ietf.org" <bfcpbis@ietf.org>, "ice@ietf.org" <ice@ietf.org>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m=3D line protocol in = case of ICE

 

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:48 PM, = Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu@cisco.com> wrote:

It seems to me that the most = straightforward approach would be to mandate support for BFCP over UDP = when using ICE, use UDP as the default candidate, and signal the BFCP = m-line as if it is BFCP over UDP. If we can mandate the use of DTLS, that = would be even better.

Thoughts?

 

 

I agree.

 

The only issue that I still have, = if DTLS is not used, what protocol is used when ICE tcp candidate = is selected for transport. Is this TCP/BFCP (which goes against = RFC6544)  or is it UDP/BFCP with RFC4571 framing? If it is UDP/BFCP with RFC4571 = framing, what transport tag should be used in the re-INVITE which is = sent after ICE nomination with only selected candidate? Should it be = TCP/UDP/BFCP or something similar?

=

 

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount

 

 


_______________________________________________
bfcpbis = mailing list
bfcpbis@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bfcpbis

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[209.85.220.177]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h47sm44734971qtc.27.2017.01.03.15.44.55 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Jan 2017 15:44:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-f177.google.com with SMTP id t184so391765693qkd.0; Tue, 03 Jan 2017 15:44:55 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.55.142.1 with SMTP id q1mr59800932qkd.225.1483487095063; Tue, 03 Jan 2017 15:44:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.136.230 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 15:44:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <739486DE-BDFA-48FD-ACBA-41E45D208748@gmail.com> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B4BE3AE83@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <16B5D8FF-F132-4B09-84D6-AE964CA7858D@cisco.com> <64E8A5CF-89ED-4673-AF23-2C960395C3EF@cisco.com> <633D3491-83B1-421F-B48C-0A61B1314E99@cisco.com> <739486DE-BDFA-48FD-ACBA-41E45D208748@gmail.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 18:44:54 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Alan Ford Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c0830de5493180545394135 Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" , "mmusic@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , Christer Holmberg Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m= line protocol in case of ICE X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 23:45:02 -0000 --94eb2c0830de5493180545394135 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan, TCP/BFCP and TLS/BFCP will not work with ICE. Or, to be more precise, will not work without some specification changes either in ICE tcp or in BFCP. One pair of protocols which will work with ICE is UDP/DTLS/BFCP and TCP/DTLS/BFCP. It will support both tcp and udp candidates. I think this pair should be recommended since it provides encryption. Another pair that will work with ICE is UDP/BFCP and TCP/UDP/BFCP. It will also support tcp and udp candidates. It is not something I would use over public internet since it will transmit data in the clear text. Finally, I prefer that any end point which implement BFCP and supports ICE and DTLS, MUST support UDP/DTLS/BFCP and use it for default candidate. Any endpoint which implements BFCP and ICE, but does not support DTLS, MUST support UDP/BFCP and use it as a default candidate. Once the ICE candidate pair is selected, the transport matching the selected candidate pair should be used in the SDP. There is no practical need for the asymmetric transport tags. I think the whole thing is coming from the confusion that TCP/BFCP can be used with ICE tcp candidates. It cannot without some specification changes. Also, there is no reason to use TCP/DTLS/BFCP or TCP/UDP/BFCP, unless ICE is used. Because of this, there is no reason to use either of those transports for default candidate, since default candidate is selected for interop with end points not supporting ICE. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 6:23 PM, Alan Ford wrote: > Roman, > > Do any of those work for having both tcp and udp ICE candidates? I assume > any with ICE (+ 4571 framing) would be acceptable for that case? > > Ideally we need to support the case where an answer=E2=80=99s m-line prot= ocol does > not match any of the candidates, so that an answer could only support TCP > (say) when the offerer supported both (and used a UDP m-line protocol). I= f > Christer=E2=80=99s proposed change which permitted an answer not to match= the > m-line protocol in the ICE candidates was accepted, that would resolve th= is > case. Do you see any problems here? > > Regards, > Alan > > On 3 Jan 2017, at 20:08, Roman Shpount wrote: > > Charles, > > I do not think not supporting ICE tcp candidates will quite work since it > will reduce the usability considerably. The simplest way to move forward = is > to define a different transport tag for BFCP with RFC 4571 over TCP not = to > confuse it with TCP/BFCP. It can be TCP/UDP/BFCP (I know this looks stran= ge > and I am open to other suggestions, such as calling all packet based > protocols DBFCP). > > In general what I am proposing is: > > TCP/BFCP -- existing BFCP over TCP > TLS/BFCP -- exisitng BFCP over TLS > UDP/BFCP -- BFCP over UDP or ICE udp candidates > TCP/UDP/BFCP -- BFCP with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or over ICE tcp > candidates > UDP/DTLS/BFCP -- BFCP over DTLS or over ICE udp candidates > TCP/DTLS/BFCP -- BFCP over DTLS with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or over IC= E > tcp candidates > > Legacy BFCP over TCP or TLS cannot work with ICE or NAT. Other protocols > can work with NAT or ICE using normal ICE procedures. > > If we call all packet based protocols DBFCP then transport tags will be: > > TCP/BFCP -- existing BFCP over TCP > TLS/BFCP -- exisitng BFCP over TLS > UDP/DBFCP -- DBFCP over UDP or ICE udp candidates > TCP/DBFCP -- DBFCP with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or over ICE tcp > candidates > UDP/DTLS/DBFCP -- DBFCP over DTLS or over ICE udp candidates > TCP/DTLS/DBFCP -- DBFCP over DTLS with RFC 4571 framing over TCP or over > ICE tcp candidates > > Since BFCP over UDP (or other packet based protocols) is quite different > due to timers and transmission restrictions, it can have a different > transport tag and even be defined in a separate RFC. > > Regards, > > _____________ > Roman Shpount > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) > wrote: > >> Crickets=E2=80=A6 >> >> If no one is or has plans for using ICE with TCP/BFCP, perhaps it is bes= t >> to state that as of this rev of the BFCP spec, BFCP with TCP candidates = is >> not defined. Future updates to the spec may define this usage. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Charles >> >> >> >> *From: *mmusic on behalf of Charles Eckel < >> eckelcu@cisco.com> >> *Date: *Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:01 PM >> *To: *Roman Shpount >> *Cc: *"ice@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , >> Christer Holmberg , "mmusic@ietf.org" < >> mmusic@ietf.org> >> *Subject: *Re: [MMUSIC] [bfcpbis] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE >> >> >> >> I have no experience with ICE with TCP candidates so hopefully others ca= n >> chime in as to what they think is a workable solution. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Charles >> >> >> >> *From: *Roman Shpount >> *Date: *Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 12:34 PM >> *To: *Charles Eckel >> *Cc: *Alan Ford , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" < >> bfcpbis@ietf.org>, "ice@ietf.org" , "mmusic@ietf.org" < >> mmusic@ietf.org>, Christer Holmberg >> *Subject: *Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE >> >> >> >> Charles, >> >> >> >> RFC 6544 Sending Media (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6544#section-10.1= ) says >> that "The framing defined in RFC 4571 >> MUST be used when sending media." >> This means the protocol used is not TCP/BFCP which is using application >> level framing. I believe that STUN/Media demultiplexing requirements wou= ld >> prevent using TCP/BFCP directly with ice tcp candidates without redesign= of >> either ICE TCP or TCP/BFCP. >> >> >> >> Furthermore there are other implied ICE requirements that I outlined >> before (switching between udp and tpc candidates, existence of SBC which >> terminate ICE only but do not support the embedded protocol) because of >> which ice tcp is considered unreliable transport and will require >> fragmentation support and re-transmit timers that are not part of TCP/BF= CP. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> _____________ >> Roman Shpount >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) < >> eckelcu@cisco.com> wrote: >> >> Roman, >> >> >> >> Why would selecting TCP/BFCP as transport violate RFC 6544? Perhaps it >> does, but after a quick scan I am not sure why. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Charles >> >> >> >> *From: *Roman Shpount >> *Date: *Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 10:38 AM >> *To: *Charles Eckel >> *Cc: *Alan Ford , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" < >> bfcpbis@ietf.org>, "ice@ietf.org" , "mmusic@ietf.org" < >> mmusic@ietf.org>, Christer Holmberg >> *Subject: *Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) < >> eckelcu@cisco.com> wrote: >> >> It seems to me that the most straightforward approach would be to mandat= e >> support for BFCP over UDP when using ICE, use UDP as the default candida= te, >> and signal the BFCP m-line as if it is BFCP over UDP. If we can mandate = the >> use of DTLS, that would be even better. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> >> >> >> >> I agree. >> >> >> >> The only issue that I still have, if DTLS is not used, what protocol is >> used when ICE tcp candidate is selected for transport. Is this TCP/BFCP >> (which goes against RFC6544) or is it UDP/BFCP with RFC4571 framing? If= it >> is UDP/BFCP with RFC4571 framing, what transport tag should be used in t= he >> re-INVITE which is sent after ICE nomination with only selected candidat= e? >> Should it be TCP/UDP/BFCP or something similar? >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> _____________ >> Roman Shpount >> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > bfcpbis mailing list > bfcpbis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bfcpbis > > > --94eb2c0830de5493180545394135 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alan,

TCP/BFCP and=C2=A0TLS/BFCP will not work with ICE. Or, to be more precise, w= ill not work without some specification changes either in ICE tcp or in BFC= P.

<= /span>
One pair= of protocols which will work with ICE is UDP/DTLS/BFCP and=C2=A0TCP/DTLS/BFCP. It wil= l support both tcp and udp candidates. I think this pair should be recommen= ded since it provides encryption.=C2=A0

= Another pair that = will work with ICE is=C2=A0UDP/BFCP and=C2=A0TCP/UDP/BFCP. It will also support tcp and udp candidates. = It is not something I would use over public internet since it will transmit= data in the clear text.

Finally, I prefer that any end point which implement BFCP= and supports ICE and DTLS, MUST support=C2=A0UDP/DTLS/BFCP and use it=C2=A0for default candidate. Any e= ndpoint which implements=C2=A0BFCP and ICE, but does not support DTLS, MUST= support UDP/BFCP and use it as a default candidate.=C2=A0

Once the ICE candidate pair is selected, the transport matching the select= ed candidate pair should be used in the SDP.

=
There is no p= ractical need for the asymmetric transport tags. I think the whole thing is= coming from =C2=A0the confusion that TCP/BFCP can be used with ICE tcp can= didates. It cannot without some specification changes. Also, there is no re= ason to use=C2=A0TCP/DTLS/BFCP or=C2=A0TCP/UDP/BFCP, unless ICE is used. Because of this, there is no re= ason to use either of those transports for default candidate, since default= candidate is selected for interop with end points not supporting ICE.

<= /span>
Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 6:23 PM, Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com> wrote:
Roman,

Do any of = those work for having both tcp and udp ICE candidates? I assume any with IC= E (+ 4571 framing) would be acceptable for that case?

<= div>Ideally we need to support the case where an answer=E2=80=99s m-line pr= otocol does not match any of the candidates, so that an answer could only s= upport TCP (say) when the offerer supported both (and used a UDP m-line pro= tocol). If Christer=E2=80=99s proposed change which permitted an answer not= to match the m-line protocol in the ICE candidates was accepted, that woul= d resolve this case. Do you see any problems here?

Regards,
Alan

=
On 3 Jan 2017, at 20:08, Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com> w= rote:

Charles,

I do not think not supporting ICE tcp candidates will quite work si= nce it will reduce the usability considerably. The simplest way to move for= ward is to define a different transport tag for BFCP =C2=A0with RFC 4571 ov= er TCP not to confuse it with TCP/BFCP. It can be TCP/UDP/BFCP (I know this= looks strange and I am open to other suggestions, such as calling all pack= et based protocols DBFCP).=C2=A0

In general what I= am proposing is:

TCP/BFCP -- existing BFCP over T= CP
TLS/BFCP -- exisitng BFCP over TLS
UDP/BFCP -- BFCP = over UDP or ICE udp candidates
TCP/UDP/BFCP -- BFCP with RFC 4571= framing=C2=A0over TCP or over ICE tcp candidates
UDP/DTLS/BF= CP -- BFCP over DTLS or over ICE udp candidates
TCP/DTLS/BFCP -- = BFCP over DTLS with RFC 4571 framing=C2=A0over TCP or over ICE tcp candidat= es

Legacy BFCP over TCP or TLS cannot work with IC= E or NAT. Other protocols can work with NAT or ICE using normal ICE procedu= res.

If we call all packet based protocols DBFCP t= hen transport tags will be:

TCP/BFCP -- exist= ing BFCP over TCP
TLS/BFCP -- exisitng BFCP over TLS
UD= P/DBFCP -- DBFCP over UDP or ICE udp candidates
TCP/DBFCP -- DBFC= P with RFC 4571 framing=C2=A0over TCP or over ICE tcp candidates
<= div>UDP/DTLS/DBFCP -- DBFCP over DTLS or over ICE udp candidates
= TCP/DTLS/DBFCP -- DBFCP over DTLS with RFC 4571 framing=C2=A0over TCP or ov= er ICE tcp candidates

Since BFCP over UDP (o= r other packet based protocols) is quite different due to timers and transm= ission restrictions, it can have a different transport tag and even be defi= ned in a separate RFC.

Regards,

_____________
Ro= man Shpount

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Charles Ecke= l (eckelcu) <eckelcu@cisco.com> wrote:

Crickets=E2=80=A6

If no one is or has plans for using ICE with TCP/BFCP, perhaps it is best= to state that as of this rev of the BFCP spec, BFCP with TCP candidates is= not defined. Future updates to the spec may define this usage.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Charles

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0

From= : mmusic <mmusic-bounces@ietf.org> on beh= alf of Charles Eckel <eckelcu@cisco.com>
Date: Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:01 PM
To: Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Cc: "ice@ietf= .org" <ice@ie= tf.org>, "bfcpbis@ietf.org" <bfcpbis@ietf.org>, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@eric= sson.com>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] [bfcpbis] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE=

=C2=A0

I have no experience with ICE with TCP candida= tes so hopefully others can chime in as to what they think is a workable so= lution.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Charles

=C2=A0

From= : Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Date: Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 12:34 PM
To: Charles Eckel <eckelcu@cisco.com>
Cc: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>, "bfcpbis@ietf.org" <bfcpbis@ietf.org>, "ice@ietf.org" <ice@ietf.org>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <= ;mmusic@ietf.org&g= t;, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE

=C2=A0

Charles,

=C2=A0

RFC 6544 Sending Media (https://tools.ietf.= org/html/rfc6544#section-10.1)=C2=A0says that "The framing defined in RFC 4571 MUST be used when sending media." This means the protocol used = is not TCP/BFCP which is using application level framing. I believe that STUN/Media demultiplexing requirements would preve= nt using TCP/BFCP directly with ice tcp candidates without redesign of eith= er ICE TCP or TCP/BFCP.

=C2=A0

Furthermore=C2= =A0there are other implied ICE requirements that I outlined before (switchi= ng between udp and tpc candidates, existence of SBC which terminate ICE onl= y but do not support the embedded protocol) because of which ice tcp is considered unreliable transport and = will require fragmentation support and re-transmit timers that are not part= of TCP/BFCP.

=C2=A0

Regards,<= u>


_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Charles Eckel (= eckelcu) <eckelcu= @cisco.com> wrote:

Roman,

= =C2=A0

Why would selecting TCP/BFCP= as transport violate RFC 6544? Perhaps it does, but after a quick scan I a= m not sure why.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Charles

=C2=A0

From= : Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 10:38 AM
To: Charles Eckel <eckelcu@cisco.com>
Cc: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>, "bfcpbis@ietf.org" <bfcpbis@ietf.org>, "ice@ietf.org" <ice@ietf.org>= , "mmusic@ietf.or= g" <mmusic= @ietf.org>, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com&g= t;
Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m=3D line protocol in case of ICE

=C2=A0

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Charles Eckel= (eckelcu) <eckel= cu@cisco.com> wrote:

It seems to me that the most straightforward ap= proach would be to mandate support for BFCP over UDP when using ICE, use UD= P as the default candidate, and signal the BFCP m-line as if it is BFCP over UDP. If we can mandate the use of DTLS, that would b= e even better.

Thoughts?<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I agree.

=C2=A0

The only issue that I still have, if DTLS is no= t used, what protocol is used when ICE tcp candidate is=C2=A0selected for t= ransport. Is this TCP/BFCP (which goes against RFC6544) =C2=A0or is it UDP/BFCP with RFC4571 framing? If it is UDP/BFCP with RFC4571 framin= g, what transport tag should be used in the re-INVITE which is sent after I= CE nomination with only selected candidate? Should it be TCP/UDP/BFCP or so= mething similar?

=C2=A0

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
bfcpbis mailing lis= t
bfcpbis@ietf.org=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bfcpbis


--94eb2c0830de5493180545394135-- From nobody Wed Jan 4 14:36:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A9A12979D; Wed, 4 Jan 2017 14:35:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Robert Sparks To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148356935771.12990.3012565684208685571.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 14:35:57 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket.all@ietf.org, bfcpbis@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] Review of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13 X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 22:35:57 -0000 Reviewer: Robert Sparks Review result: Ready with Issues I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket13- Reviewer: Robert Sparks Review Date: 2017-01-04 IETF LC End Date: 2017-01-11 IESG Telechat date: 2017-01-19 Summary: Basically ready but with issues that need to be addressed before publication as a Proposed Standard Issues: The BFCP spec (at draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis) relies heavily on recommendations it makes about the use of TLS or DTLS, and even goes to the point of specifyig a particular set of cipher suites to use wih those protocols when using them with BFCP. The security considerations section of that document details some specific attacks and how the use of TLS/DTLS mitigates them (providing some justification for the cipher suites that the document specifies). This document provides a _COMPLETELY DIFFERENT_ security mechanism (essentially punting entirely to whatever a websocket library provides with the expectation that that will also be rooted in TLS) when it substitutes websockets as the layer under BFCP. The security considerations section needs to make this much more obvious - implementers and deployers need to be see this as a strong-primary point to avoid anyone thinking all the thinking that went into securing BFCP as captured in draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis still applies. There should be more discussion about what a BFCP implementation that cares about the attacks discussed in section 14 of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis requires of its library. The current document gets most of the way there, but there are things missing. Shouldn't there be some discussion of ensuring the websocket library used supports and will use the cipher suites called out in the core BFCP document? If not, this document needs to be very explicit that you are only going to get the confidentiality protection the library provides. The current consideration section calls out relying on "a typical webserver-client model" and talks about server authentication, but not client authentication. Section 8 shows most of what you're expecting the server to do to authenticate the client, but you need more text about what you expect the client libraries to be doing to let the server do its job (and you should point back to that from the security considerations section). I strongly recommend simply walking through the cases again in the security considerations section of this document, explaining how the websocket library and the bfcp implementation are going to interact to mitigate the attacks. Nits/editorial comments: The 3rd paragraph of section 3 speaks generally about how the websocket protocol works - you call out it can carry text or binary data and that it supports split frames. But then you go on to constrain the use of the protocol in this document to a particular bit of binary data and constrain using the protocol to not split frames (and to only put one BFCP message in each frame). This is confusing. I suggest deleting the second sentence of that paragraph and the indented call-out below it. If the observation about the API callbacks is important, work it in where you talk about the one-messsage-per-frame restriction. The last sentence of the second paragraph of section 5 relies on an inference that you should make explicit. Instead of "is a server on the Internet", say "will have a globally routable address". The last paragraph of 6.1 is not logically sound - it falls apart at "So". Please restructure it. As it stands, it says something like: 'Some soda manufacturers don't provide sugar-free variants of their soda. Therefore, we recommend always drinking sugar-laden soda, but we allow drinking sugar-free.' What were you actually trying to say? 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(eckelcu)" To: Roman Shpount , Alan Ford , "Tom Kristensen (tomkrist)" , Tom Kristensen <2mkristensen@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m= line protocol in case of ICE Thread-Index: AQHSZhtknFAwOo6gtkq09SOaLvmbNKEyD0MA Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:17:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B4BE3AE83@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <16B5D8FF-F132-4B09-84D6-AE964CA7858D@cisco.com> <64E8A5CF-89ED-4673-AF23-2C960395C3EF@cisco.com> <633D3491-83B1-421F-B48C-0A61B1314E99@cisco.com> <739486DE-BDFA-48FD-ACBA-41E45D208748@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1d.0.161209 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.156.130.222] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E141AB908F354786B443DF7682F3D5FAciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "mmusic@ietf.org" , Christer Holmberg Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] [MMUSIC] m= line protocol in case of ICE X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:17:08 -0000 --_000_E141AB908F354786B443DF7682F3D5FAciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Um9tYW4sDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3Igc2hhcmluZyB0aGlzIHZlcnkgY2xlYXIgcHJvcG9zYWwuIFVu bGVzcyBzb21lb25lIHNlZXMgYW4gaXNzdWUgd2l0aCBpdCwgSSB0aGluayBpdCBzaG91bGQgYmUg aW5jb3Jwb3JhdGVkIGludG8gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1iZmNwYmlzLXJmYzQ1ODNiaXMuIFN1cHBvcnQg Zm9yIERUTFMgaXMgcmVxdWlyZWQgYnkgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1iZmNwYmlzLXJmYzQ1ODJiaXMgZm9y IHRyYW5zcG9ydCBvZiBCRkNQIG92ZXIgVURQLCBzbyByZXF1aXJpbmcgc3VwcG9ydCBmb3IgVURQ L0RUTFMvQkZDUCBhcyB0aGUgZGVmYXVsdCBjYW5kaWRhdGUgd2hlbiB1c2luZyBJQ0UgYW5kIERU 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bWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2JmY3BiaXM8L2E+PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYmxvY2tx dW90ZT4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+ DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9y bWFsIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+ DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_E141AB908F354786B443DF7682F3D5FAciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Jan 13 10:05:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4201294F3; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 10:05:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148433071650.26816.8576832326000853637.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 10:05:16 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: bfcpbis@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08.txt X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 18:05:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Binary Floor Control Protocol Bis of the IETF. Title : Session Description Protocol (SDP) WebSocket Connection URI Attribute Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath Gonzalo Salgueiro Filename : draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2017-01-13 Abstract: The WebSocket protocol enables bidirectional real-time communication between clients and servers in web-based applications. This document specifies extensions to Session Description Protocol (SDP) for application protocols using WebSocket as a transport. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Jan 13 14:19:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0B5129509; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:19:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Alexey Melnikov" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148434596441.9752.6696571117558965561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:19:24 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org, bfcpbis@ietf.org, eckelcu@cisco.com, bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 22:19:24 -0000 Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This is generally a well written document, but I have a small list of issues that I would like to discuss before recommending its approval: 1) Are a=ws-uri and a=wss-uri mutually exclusive? (Section 4.3 is a good place to mention what to do if both are specified). Why not a single attribute, considering that both ws: and wss: URIs are possible? 2) In Section 6: how is Websocket TLS server identity verified? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Is S/MIME protection with SIP actually deployed? From nobody Sun Jan 15 09:39:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1770E129648; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:38:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Mirja Kuehlewind" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148450193905.3263.13819840691112205423.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:38:59 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org, bfcpbis@ietf.org, eckelcu@cisco.com, bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draf?= =?utf-8?q?t-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:38:59 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - sec 4.2. The MUST here is inappropriate (given the split of docs): „For example, to negotiate BFCP-over-WebSocket the "proto" value in the "m=" line MUST be TCP/WSS/BFCP if WebSocket is over TLS, else it MUST be TCP/WS/BFCP.“ Should be instead: „For example, to negotiate BFCP-over-WebSocket the "proto" value in the "m=" line is TCP/WSS/BFCP if WebSocket is over TLS, else it is TCP/WS/BFCP., as specified in [I-D.ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket]“ - Also remove the following sentence in section 4.3:
 „For BFCP application, the "proto" value in the "m=" line MUST be TCP/WSS/BFCP if WebSocket is run on TLS, else it MUST be TCP/WS/BFCP.“ - In section 6: „a=ws/a=wss-uri“. Maybe use „a=ws-uri/a=wss-uri“ instead? 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(rmohanr)" To: Robert Sparks , "gen-art@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13 Thread-Index: AQHSZtrvLlWBbuxPF0Ot2Hb1sMMLCaE7V2SA Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 05:36:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <148356935771.12990.3012565684208685571.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148356935771.12990.3012565684208685571.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [72.163.172.131] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket.all@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Review of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13 X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 05:37:00 -0000 SGkgUm9iZXJ0LA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHlvdXIgcmV2aWV3LiBQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZSA8 UmFtPg0KDQo+LS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj5Gcm9tOiBSb2JlcnQgU3Bhcmtz IDxyanNwYXJrc0Bub3N0cnVtLmNvbT4NCj5EYXRlOiBUaHVyc2RheSwgNSBKYW51YXJ5IDIwMTcg YXQgNDowNSBBTQ0KPlRvOiAiZ2VuLWFydEBpZXRmLm9yZyIgPGdlbi1hcnRAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+ Q2M6ICJkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWJmY3BiaXMtYmZjcC13ZWJzb2NrZXQuYWxsQGlldGYub3JnIiA8ZHJh ZnQtaWV0Zi1iZmNwYmlzLWJmY3Atd2Vic29ja2V0LmFsbEBpZXRmLm9yZz4sICJiZmNwYmlzQGll dGYub3JnIiA8YmZjcGJpc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4sICJpZXRmQGlldGYub3JnIiA+PGlldGZAaWV0Zi5v cmc+DQo+U3ViamVjdDogUmV2aWV3IG9mIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtYmZjcGJpcy1iZmNwLXdlYnNvY2tl dC0xMw0KPlJlc2VudC1Gcm9tOiA8YWxpYXMtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NCj5SZXNlbnQtVG86 IDxhbnRvbi5yb21hbkBxdW9iaXMuY29tPiwgPHN0ZXBoYW5lLmNhemVhdXhAb3JhbmdlLmNvbT4s 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Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 06:09:33 -0000 SGkgQWxleGV5LA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHlvdXIgZmVlZGJhY2suIFBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5l IDxSYW0+DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBiZmNwYmlzIDxiZmNw YmlzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+IG9uIGJlaGFsZiBvZiBBbGV4ZXkgTWVsbmlrb3YgPGFhbWVs bmlrb3ZAZmFzdG1haWwuZm0+DQpEYXRlOiBTYXR1cmRheSwgMTQgSmFudWFyeSAyMDE3IGF0IDM6 NDkgQU0NClRvOiBUaGUgSUVTRyA8aWVzZ0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NCkNjOiAiZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1iZmNw 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Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org, bfcpbis@ietf.org, "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:27:48 -0000 Hi Ram, On Mon, Jan 16, 2017, at 06:09 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: > Hi Alexey, > > Thanks for your feedback. Please see inline > > -----Original Message----- > From: bfcpbis on behalf of Alexey Melnikov > > Date: Saturday, 14 January 2017 at 3:49 AM > To: The IESG > Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" > , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" > , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , > "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" > Subject: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on > draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: Discuss > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This is generally a well written document, but I have a small list of > issues that I would like to discuss before recommending its approval: > > 1) Are a=ws-uri and a=wss-uri mutually exclusive? (Section 4.3 is a > good > place to mention what to do if both are specified). > > Yes kind of. In a given media line (m= line) we will either have > a=ws-uri or a=wss-uri. That said a response from a BFCP server using > webSocket as a transport can > have two media lines one with ws and other with wss. Something like: > > Answer (server): > m=application 50000 TCP/WSS/BFCP * > a=setup:passive > a=connection:new > a=wss-uri:wss://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3170449312 > m=application 50000 TCP/WS/BFCP * > a=setup:passive > a=connection:new > a=ws-uri:ws://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3170449312 [Alexey]: This is exactly my problem, you should specify how a recipient should handle your example above. If you only have 1 attribute, the problem goes away entirely. > Why not a single attribute, considering that both ws: and wss: URIs > are > possible? > > I would still prefer two attributes. We just followed the > convention / approach that was used in [RFC6455]. 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Thread-Topic: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSbeseZdw0JJoDs02EXfYysuX0qaE7UlwAgAAvAwCAAGIlAA== Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:49:01 +0000 Message-ID: <30CC3092-0ED4-4983-8203-8394FD06D0A9@cisco.com> References: <148434596441.9752.6696571117558965561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1484576862.2842665.849203352.4F87F4EA@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1484576862.2842665.849203352.4F87F4EA@webmail.messagingengine.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.76.147] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , 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(MEProxy); Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:55:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=iCaMQQED1+VK+1Jt/mysHAUusv 8=; b=ORIDvZeS2fqGmcJJZOsvKBE4i2u2EuV2XUnxHrKBkIic0T8cPlDllZ4zce 7g0dAi6eW6EreaTTtdndPK9g7V05kMNlG+I64yT2Fr6ArPQdPt7sgd+vTitn48Ry iSwkUdG6W3v0DgDt3SL1rkfkwdiaAbshnMNgz7Sra3OVRbPAU= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=iC aMQQED1+VK+1Jt/mysHAUusv8=; b=J3rKzm91RxUfSkeK2F96IkW7gzFDlCGfQe UiO1IQm8HFPBMhNvkN+VmlFicJeqOUN2+pK0jMAeg/zoCv3Nl/UX071hy52qrq48 wpwIblcdRxmd7qC0AzE2Khmfge69q0FvEG+qacbTVP71hHw5O4mmCPSE8sMjV19f Q2Lu60cYs= X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 8C9D76ABF3; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:55:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1484578527.2848348.849241320.7317C68A@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , The IESG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-d492654e In-Reply-To: <30CC3092-0ED4-4983-8203-8394FD06D0A9@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:55:27 +0000 References: <148434596441.9752.6696571117558965561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1484576862.2842665.849203352.4F87F4EA@webmail.messagingengine.com> <30CC3092-0ED4-4983-8203-8394FD06D0A9@cisco.com> Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org, bfcpbis@ietf.org, "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:55:29 -0000 Hi Ram, On Mon, Jan 16, 2017, at 02:49 PM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: > Hi Alexey, >=20 > Please see inline >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexey Melnikov > Date: Monday, 16 January 2017 at 7:57 PM > To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , The IESG > Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" > , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" > , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , > "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on > draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 > Hi Ram, >=20=20=20=20=20 > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017, at 06:09 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: > > Hi Alexey, > >=20 > > Thanks for your feedback. Please see inline > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bfcpbis on behalf of Alexey Melnik= ov > > > > Date: Saturday, 14 January 2017 at 3:49 AM > > To: The IESG > > Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" > > , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" > > , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , > > "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" > > Subject: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on > > draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > >=20 > > Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: Discuss > >=20=20=20=20=20 >=20=20=20=20=20 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > >=20=20=20=20=20 > > This is generally a well written document, but I have a small l= ist of > > issues that I would like to discuss before recommending its app= roval: > >=20=20=20=20=20 > > 1) Are a=3Dws-uri and a=3Dwss-uri mutually exclusive? (Section = 4.3 is a > > good > > place to mention what to do if both are specified). > >=20 > > Yes kind of. In a given media line (m=3D line) we will either= have > > a=3Dws-uri or a=3Dwss-uri. That said a response from a BFCP server = using > > webSocket as a transport can > > have two media lines one with ws and other with wss. Something like: > >=20 > > Answer (server): > > m=3Dapplication 50000 TCP/WSS/BFCP * > > a=3Dsetup:passive > > a=3Dconnection:new > > a=3Dwss-uri:wss://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3D3170449312 > > m=3Dapplication 50000 TCP/WS/BFCP * > > a=3Dsetup:passive > > a=3Dconnection:new > > a=3Dws-uri:ws://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3D3170449312 >=20=20=20=20=20 > [Alexey]: This is exactly my problem, you should specify how a > recipient > should handle your example above. If you only have 1 attribute, the > problem goes away entirely. >=20 > in the above case, they are still two different m=3D lines. The > receiver (after offer/answer is done) of this SDP connects to the URI > mentioned in that m=3D line.=20 > Note I just re-used the same URL/port in the example above. If there are > multiple m=3Dapplication media lines (they will be for different > applications) being negotiated in SDP, one application may use secure WS > and other application may use non-secure WS. The client after it receives > the answer SDP will just setup the connection to the URI specified in the > attribute.=20=20 Sorry, I was thinking about different example: m=3Dapplication 50000 TCP/WSS/BFCP * a=3Dsetup:passive a=3Dconnection:new a=3Dwss-uri:wss://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3D3170449312 a=3Dws-uri:ws://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3D3170449312 You have 2 conflicting URIs for the same m=3D line. Is this possible? > I don=E2=80=99t see any problem in here.=20=20 >=20 > Regards, > Ram >=20 > > Why not a single attribute, considering that both ws: and wss: = URIs > > are > > possible? > >=20 > > I would still prefer two attributes. We just followed the > > convention / approach that was used in [RFC6455].=20=20 >=20=20=20=20=20 >=20 From nobody Mon Jan 16 07:09:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 911E8129574; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 07:09:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 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by XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:09:28 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Alexey Melnikov , The IESG Thread-Topic: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSbeseZdw0JJoDs02EXfYysuX0qaE7UlwAgAAvAwCAAGIlAP//pZyAgABgG4A= Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 15:09:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <148434596441.9752.6696571117558965561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1484576862.2842665.849203352.4F87F4EA@webmail.messagingengine.com> <30CC3092-0ED4-4983-8203-8394FD06D0A9@cisco.com> <1484578527.2848348.849241320.7317C68A@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1484578527.2848348.849241320.7317C68A@webmail.messagingengine.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: 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XS4gIA0KICAgID4gICAgIA0KICAgID4gDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Jan 16 17:04:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0871298D0; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:04:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148461509307.22532.2587841723140215984.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:04:53 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org, bfcpbis@ietf.org, eckelcu@cisco.com, bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 01:04:53 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This document was very clear for me. Thank you for that. From nobody Tue Jan 17 06:21:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B87D1294A4; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 06:21:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Mirja Kuehlewind" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148466290819.32063.16647641365576028822.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 06:21:48 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: bfcpbis@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org, eckelcu@cisco.com, bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draf?= =?utf-8?q?t-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:21:48 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) I find this sentence slightly confusing: 
„This document specifies a new WebSocket sub- protocol as a reliable transport mechanism between Binary Floor Control Protocol (BFCP) entities to enable usage of BFCP in new scenarios.“
because it suggests that this document specifies a new protocol which is not true.
How about the following instead: „This document specifies the use of Binary Floor Control Protocol (BFCP) as a new WebSocket sub- protocol enabling a reliable transport mechanism between 
 BFCP entities in new scenarios.“ If this change is used, please also check similar wording in the rest of the doc. 2) In section 4.1: „The WebSocket messages transmitted over this connection MUST conform to the negotiated WebSocket sub-protocol.“
Not sure if this is actually meaningful given the subsequent MUSTs in the next section. I guess this sentence could simply be removed… Also would this mean that it is the task of the BFCP WS sub protocol to verify that BFCP messages are valid? 3) In section 5: „Each BFCP message MUST be carried within a single WebSocket message, and a WebSocket message MUST NOT contain more than one BFCP message.“
This seem to be long rather in section 4.2 than in 5. 4) The following sentence in section 6.2 is basically copied and pasted from ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri. It’s usually not a good idea to duplicate normative text (as problems when updating might occur). I’d recommend to either a) remove this text (and only refer to ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri), or b) use quotes to make clear that this is a citation, or c) rephrase in non-normative language (with a clear indication that the normative text can be found in ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri).
„When the 'ws-uri' or 'wss-uri' attribute is present in the media section of the SDP, the IP and port information provided in the 'c' lines SHALL be ignored and the full URI SHALL be used instead to open the WebSocket connection. “ From nobody Tue Jan 17 06:37:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE38C1294D0; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 06:37:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=2VsFkuPd; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=gIRCWwYR Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hPs9S_EfoH6V; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 06:37:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F38AA1294B5; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 06:37:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CE7320599; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:37:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:37:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=GdWSbQZ0/4BM/2I L2CWrOq2fptw=; b=2VsFkuPdSLeEYmkIz2v+SLUqISuTNcbLL1Cq4eKfPki2Pva 6MejQMKwNix9429TOVKIVzAiwfytog9A3+3+RGjlXF4oa03LTO6oYwnSStHkogVx sAEmcowla0lY6F/14MsYtqEVJNgXBTuk5c32BU0BFEjgR7pR6XD64FmejGl4= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s= smtpout; bh=GdWSbQZ0/4BM/2IL2CWrOq2fptw=; b=gIRCWwYR1ybeyRi0halp izwHojLG3dnsFverILVKKb6FG+lYklXKHuzymeJrpIzjma7JeFnEO9tbepWaUDgr 5fHglfxJVdD5jREFXs/y/38h0oE8lf457IDVdOVGo8T4U+V7hoRrnls7mX6JSk/t v/SKF2KRNYtRhJOBW+mVPpw= X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: GqK9U2UjeWQMzcNtAkpwyRmazbkhB1E/6vqVkej6VoU8 1484663844 Received: from sjc-alcoop-8818.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.241.169]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id DD0702486D; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:37:23 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:37:22 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3E8813A2-FC3D-433F-B51B-41380ABD3D95@cooperw.in> References: <148434596441.9752.6696571117558965561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1484576862.2842665.849203352.4F87F4EA@webmail.messagingengine.com> <30CC3092-0ED4-4983-8203-8394FD06D0A9@cisco.com> <1484578527.2848348.849241320.7317C68A@webmail.messagingengine.com> To: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" , "Ram Mohan R \(rmohanr\)" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , The IESG Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:37:28 -0000 Alexey, would the following changes clarify things? Section 4.1 OLD the server side, which could be either the offerer or answerer, MUST add an "a=3Dws-uri" or "a=3Dwss-uri" attribute in the media section NEW the server side, which could be either the offerer or answerer, MUST add an "a=3Dws-uri" or "a=3Dwss-uri=E2=80= =9D attribute (but not both) in the media section Section 4.3 OLD If the answers assigns SDP "setup" attribute with "passive", then it MUST have a URI in either "a=3Dws-uri" or "a=3Dwss-uri" attribute depending on whether the application uses WebSocket or secureWebSocket. NEW If the answers assigns SDP "setup" attribute with "passive", then it MUST have a URI in either "a=3Dws-uri" or "a=3Dwss-uri" attribute (but not both) in the media section, depending on whether the = application uses WebSocket or secureWebSocket. Ram, would you be okay with those clarifications? Alissa > On Jan 16, 2017, at 10:09 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Alexey, >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexey Melnikov > Date: Monday, 16 January 2017 at 8:25 PM > To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , The IESG = > Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" = , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" = , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , = "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on = draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 > Hi Ram, >=20 > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017, at 02:49 PM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: >> Hi Alexey, >>=20 >> Please see inline >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alexey Melnikov >> Date: Monday, 16 January 2017 at 7:57 PM >> To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , The IESG = >> Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" >> , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" >> , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , >> "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" >> Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on >> draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>=20 >> Hi Ram, >>=20 >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017, at 06:09 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: >>> Hi Alexey, >>>=20 >>> Thanks for your feedback. Please see inline >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: bfcpbis on behalf of Alexey = Melnikov >>> >>> Date: Saturday, 14 January 2017 at 3:49 AM >>> To: The IESG >>> Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" >>> , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" >>> , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , >>> "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" >>> Subject: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on >>> draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>>=20 >>> Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for >>> draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: Discuss >>>=20 >>=20 >>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> DISCUSS: >>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>=20 >>> This is generally a well written document, but I have a small = list of >>> issues that I would like to discuss before recommending its = approval: >>>=20 >>> 1) Are a=3Dws-uri and a=3Dwss-uri mutually exclusive? (Section = 4.3 is a >>> good >>> place to mention what to do if both are specified). >>>=20 >>> Yes kind of. In a given media line (m=3D line) we will either = have >>> a=3Dws-uri or a=3Dwss-uri. That said a response from a BFCP server = using >>> webSocket as a transport can >>> have two media lines one with ws and other with wss. Something like: >>>=20 >>> Answer (server): >>> m=3Dapplication 50000 TCP/WSS/BFCP * >>> a=3Dsetup:passive >>> a=3Dconnection:new >>> a=3Dwss-uri:wss://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3D3170449312 >>> m=3Dapplication 50000 TCP/WS/BFCP * >>> a=3Dsetup:passive >>> a=3Dconnection:new >>> a=3Dws-uri:ws://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3D3170449312 >>=20 >> [Alexey]: This is exactly my problem, you should specify how a >> recipient >> should handle your example above. If you only have 1 attribute, = the >> problem goes away entirely. >>=20 >> in the above case, they are still two different m=3D lines. The >> receiver (after offer/answer is done) of this SDP connects to the URI >> mentioned in that m=3D line.=20 >> Note I just re-used the same URL/port in the example above. If there = are >> multiple m=3Dapplication media lines (they will be for different >> applications) being negotiated in SDP, one application may use secure = WS >> and other application may use non-secure WS. The client after it = receives >> the answer SDP will just setup the connection to the URI specified in = the >> attribute. =20 >=20 > Sorry, I was thinking about different example: >=20 > m=3Dapplication 50000 TCP/WSS/BFCP * > a=3Dsetup:passive > a=3Dconnection:new > a=3Dwss-uri:wss://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3D3170449312 > a=3Dws-uri:ws://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3D3170449312 >=20 > You have 2 conflicting URIs for the same m=3D line. Is this = possible? >=20 > No this is not possible. If the transport is TCP/WSS/BFCP we = should have only a=3Dwss-uri. If transport is TCP/WS/BFCP we should have = only a=3Dws-uri. >=20 > Regards, > Ram >=20 >> I don=E2=80=99t see any problem in here. =20 >>=20 >> Regards, >> Ram >>=20 >>> Why not a single attribute, considering that both ws: and wss: = URIs >>> are >>> possible? >>>=20 >>> I would still prefer two attributes. We just followed the >>> convention / approach that was used in [RFC6455]. =20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Tue Jan 17 06:39:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89F421294DC; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 06:39:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draf?= =?utf-8?q?t-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:39:47 -0000 SGkgTWlyamEsDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgeW91ciBmZWVkYmFjay4gUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxpbmUg PFJhbT4NCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IE1pcmphIEt1ZWhsZXdp bmQgPGlldGZAa3VlaGxld2luZC5uZXQ+DQpEYXRlOiBUdWVzZGF5LCAxNyBKYW51YXJ5IDIwMTcg YXQgNzo1MSBQTQ0KVG86IFRoZSBJRVNHIDxpZXNnQGlldGYub3JnPg0KQ2M6ICJkcmFmdC1pZXRm LWJmY3BiaXMtYmZjcC13ZWJzb2NrZXRAaWV0Zi5vcmciIDxkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWJmY3BiaXMtYmZj 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[64.101.220.158]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v0HEeh0L028662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:40:44 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com (64.101.220.157) by XCH-RTP-018.cisco.com (64.101.220.158) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:40:42 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) by XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:40:42 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Alissa Cooper , Alexey Melnikov Thread-Topic: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSbeseZdw0JJoDs02EXfYysuX0qaE7UlwAgAAvAwCAAGIlAP//pZyAgABgG4CAAS0tAIAAXSIA Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:40:42 +0000 Message-ID: <60D33439-D03C-4E3D-A293-9DE608AC5DB4@cisco.com> References: <148434596441.9752.6696571117558965561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1484576862.2842665.849203352.4F87F4EA@webmail.messagingengine.com> <30CC3092-0ED4-4983-8203-8394FD06D0A9@cisco.com> <1484578527.2848348.849241320.7317C68A@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3E8813A2-FC3D-433F-B51B-41380ABD3D95@cooperw.in> In-Reply-To: <3E8813A2-FC3D-433F-B51B-41380ABD3D95@cooperw.in> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.53.77] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <9A9D85E6D3E5924996755C86BE6E1964@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , The IESG , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: 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DQo= From nobody Tue Jan 17 07:21:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2733E1294D4; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:21:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X3V0SbM_pl7c; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:21:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3710F129426; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:21:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from unnumerable.local ([47.186.22.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v0HFLOal075237 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=OK); Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:21:24 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.22.210] claimed to be unnumerable.local To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , "gen-art@ietf.org" References: <148356935771.12990.3012565684208685571.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:21:23 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket.all@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Review of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13 X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 15:21:33 -0000 On 1/15/17 11:36 PM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: > Hi Robert, > > Thanks for your review. Please see inline > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Sparks >> Date: Thursday, 5 January 2017 at 4:05 AM >> To: "gen-art@ietf.org" >> Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket.all@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" > >> Subject: Review of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13 >> Resent-From: >> Resent-To: , , , , , >, , , , , >, Charles Eckel >> Resent-Date: Thursday, 5 January 2017 at 4:05 AM > > Reviewer: Robert Sparks > > Review result: Ready with Issues > > > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just > > like any other last call comments. > > > For more information, please see the FAQ at > > . > > > > Document: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket13- > > Reviewer: Robert Sparks > > Review Date: 2017-01-04 > > IETF LC End Date: 2017-01-11 > > IESG Telechat date: 2017-01-19 > > > > Summary: Basically ready but with issues that need to be addressed > > before publication as a Proposed Standard > > > > Issues: > > > > The BFCP spec (at draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis) relies heavily on > > recommendations it makes about the use of TLS or DTLS, and even goes > > to > > the point of specifyig a particular set of cipher suites to use wih > > those protocols when using them with BFCP. The security > > considerations > > section of that document details some specific attacks and how the > > use > > of TLS/DTLS mitigates them (providing some justification for the > > cipher > > suites that the document specifies). > > > > This document provides a _COMPLETELY DIFFERENT_ security mechanism > > (essentially punting entirely to whatever a websocket library > > provides > > with the expectation that that will also be rooted in TLS) when it > > substitutes websockets as the layer under BFCP. The security > > considerations section needs to make this much more obvious - > > implementers and deployers need to be see this as a strong-primary > > point to avoid anyone thinking all the thinking that went into > > securing > > BFCP as captured in draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis still applies. > > I will add the below line in security consideration section. Is this sufficient? > > NEW: > “The security considerations described in draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis are applicable here as well.” Well, no. That misses the point entirely. > > > There should be more discussion about what a BFCP implementation that > > cares about the attacks discussed in section 14 of > > draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis requires of its library. The current > > document gets most of the way there, but there are things missing. > >Shouldn't there be some discussion of ensuring the websocket library > > used supports and will use the cipher suites called out in the core > > BFCP document? If not, this document needs to be very explicit that > > you > > are only going to get the confidentiality protection the library > > provides. > > Good point. I would prefer to add a text something to the effect of: > > “The security considerations mentioned in section 14 of [draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis] are applicable here. In order to mitigate > the attacks mentioned in section 14 of [draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis], it is RECOMMENDED that the clients and server use secure WebSocket > with an encryption algorithm according to Section 7 of [draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis]” Do websocket libraries give the application that kind of control? > >> The current consideration section calls out relying on "a > > typical webserver-client model" and talks about server > > authentication, > > but not client authentication. Section 8 shows most of what you're > > expecting the server to do to authenticate the client, but you need > > more text about what you expect the client libraries to be doing to > > let > > the server do its job (and you should point back to that from the > > security considerations section). > > section 8 second para has text on what client should do. Also 4th para has some text. Is there anything else you would like to see in that? Yes - you're still looking at the text that describes how the client authenticates the server. I was asking for more text talking about what the client needs to do to allow the server to authenticate the client. I'm rereading the 5th paragraph now and maybe you're saying all you can. > I will add a line in security considerations > > EXISTING: > The security model here is a typical webserver- > client model where the client validates the server certificate and > then connects to the server > > NEW: > The security model here is a typical webserver- > client model where the client validates the server certificate and > then connects to the server. Section 8 describes the authentication procedures between client and server. > > > I strongly recommend simply walking through the cases again in the > > security considerations section of this document, explaining how the > > websocket library and the bfcp implementation are going to interact > > to > > mitigate the attacks. > > > > Nits/editorial comments: > > > > The 3rd paragraph of section 3 speaks generally about how the > > websocket > > protocol works - you call out it can carry text or binary data and > > that > > it supports split frames. But then you go on to constrain the use of > > the protocol in this document to a particular bit of binary data and > > constrain using the protocol to not split frames (and to only put one > > BFCP message in each frame). This is confusing. I suggest deleting > > the > > second sentence of that paragraph and the indented call-out below it. > > If the observation about the API callbacks is important, work it in > > where you talk about the one-messsage-per-frame restriction. > > I am ok to delete the second line and the indented call-out. > > > > > The last sentence of the second paragraph of section 5 relies on an > > inference that you should make explicit. Instead of "is a server on > > the > > Internet", say "will have a globally routable address". > > Ok will fix it. > > > > > The last paragraph of 6.1 is not logically sound - it falls apart at > > "So". Please restructure it. As it stands, it says something like: > > 'Some soda manufacturers don't provide sugar-free variants of their > > soda. Therefore, we recommend always drinking sugar-laden soda, but > > we > > allow drinking sugar-free.' What were you actually trying to say? > > How about changing to this? > > EXISTING: > Some web browsers do not allow non-secure WebSocket connections to be > made. So, while this document recommends the use of Secure > WebSockets (i.e.TCP/WSS) for security reasons, TCP/WS is also > permitted so as to achieve maximum compatibility among clients. > > NEW: > While this document recommends the use of Secure > WebSockets (i.e.TCP/WSS) for security reasons, TCP/WS is also > permitted so as to achieve maximum compatibility among clients. That's much clearer > > Regards, > Ram > > > > > > From nobody Tue Jan 17 07:47:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7501293F8; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:47:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148466803770.32051.5938243863646069856.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:47:17 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: bfcpbis@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org, eckelcu@cisco.com, bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 15:47:18 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a couple of questions on authentication in this draft. Does this text, Since the WebSocket API does not distinguish between certificate errors and other kinds of failure to establish a connection, it is expected that browser vendors will warn end users directly of any kind of problem with the server certificate. apply to any WebSocket-based application? In this text, A floor control server that receives a message over TCP/WS can request the use of TCP/WSS by generating an Error message, as described in Section 13.8 of [I-D.ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis], with an Error code with a value of 9 (use TLS). is "request" the right word? Or is "require" more accurate, if the server isn't going to establish a TCP/WS connection? From nobody Tue Jan 17 08:34:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1725129982; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:34:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Alexey Melnikov" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148467088398.32098.5746976377858263906.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:34:43 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: bfcpbis@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org, eckelcu@cisco.com, bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 16:34:44 -0000 Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In 4.2, last sentence: wouldn't that require a new WebSocket sub-protocol identifier? In 6.2: some formatting errors in the PDF version. Also, I think you meant Section 3.3 (not 3.2) when talking about WSS. In 7.2: when referencing Section 3, you are missing the RFC number. At least section 3 of this draft is not relevant. In 8: HTTP authentication text is rather weak. From nobody Tue Jan 17 09:28:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A71120725; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:28:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148467410894.32070.12790854414395102654.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:28:28 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: bfcpbis@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14.txt X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 17:28:29 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Binary Floor Control Protocol Bis of the IETF. Title : The WebSocket Protocol as a Transport for the Binary Floor Control Protocol (BFCP) Authors : Victor Pascual Antón Román Stéphane Cazeaux Gonzalo Salgueiro Ram Mohan Ravindranath Sergio Garcia Murillo Filename : draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2017-01-17 Abstract: The WebSocket protocol enables two-way realtime communication between clients and servers. This document specifies the use of Binary Floor Control Protocol(BFCP) as a new WebSocket sub-protocol enabling a reliable transport mechanism between BFCP entities in new scenarios. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jan 18 11:40:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89F7F129881; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 11:40:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Kathleen Moriarty" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148476840952.2190.615912845986321795.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 11:40:09 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: bfcpbis@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org, eckelcu@cisco.com, bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:40:09 -0000 Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with Alexey's comment on section 8. If fallback to HTTP authentication happens, the implementer should be aware of the weaknesses in HTTP basic [RFC7617] and digest [RFC7616] spelled out in the respective security considerations sections. The HTTPAuth WG put out a few experimental RFCs with methods to eliminate some of the weaknesses, like HOBA [RFC7486] that gets rid of the need for passwords. Adding this detail would be helpful. From nobody Wed Jan 18 12:28:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09DFC129863; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:28:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=vy776P9v; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=caUEewjq Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iCQdGaW-JtXN; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5CD412983F; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:28:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB9120930; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:28:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:28:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=sDrhDgoCggVdzsB DhF7qxCapZxE=; b=vy776P9vVlJh2EQp0QooAIXl5vC3LqGoN2u24J6RfE2ZGiu EMTMx+J4pXsfueab7PqqjWOF/d0FB4Aswtf54Zmol/iYFoXn7E8VMdZ8wUg41S1/ tOE874B8vw7DEfoTaXgaEZDx2npJggazNvXPN1YDKRu/Z1joI0hrOI11aSlU= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s= smtpout; bh=sDrhDgoCggVdzsBDhF7qxCapZxE=; b=caUEewjqeUgQSNqev/T8 X7VPSsOMQ+6wEQMQs1sZAK9e36+q6VvTP0zzt6X7VJzhfXn2Sswp4g1DBZEGgnvS KT31FMhUESWEh6WYZN/RAl9U5/3WSr0qa8M7MavB2mS621+1r4Ro7ytMNDoqEZv3 LzwWHBqGJfLNf2QAtkdeb9M= X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: QfQMgfi6Diq828DoUjt4X5cuLkkffNBFQlILigkCLxBg 1484771307 Received: from dhcp-10-150-9-164.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.90]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B857A7E351; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:28:27 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <60D33439-D03C-4E3D-A293-9DE608AC5DB4@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:28:27 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6E698BCA-2F14-4660-B053-BEDA42860B86@cooperw.in> References: <148434596441.9752.6696571117558965561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1484576862.2842665.849203352.4F87F4EA@webmail.messagingengine.com> <30CC3092-0ED4-4983-8203-8394FD06D0A9@cisco.com> <1484578527.2848348.849241320.7317C68A@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3E8813A2-FC3D-433F-B51B-41380ABD3D95@cooperw.in> <60D33439-D03C-4E3D-A293-9DE608AC5DB4@cisco.com> To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" , Alexey Melnikov , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , The IESG Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:28:31 -0000 Hi Ram, I had some further conversation with Alexey on the side and wanted to = come back to a question he posed: is there a reason why a=3Dws-uri and = a=3Dwss-uri both need to be specified? Why can=E2=80=99t a single label = be specified, say a=3Dwebsocket-uri, and then have normative language = requiring the scheme in the URI itself to match what=E2=80=99s in the = associated m-line (ws:// for TCP/WS/BFCP and wss:// for TCP/WSS/BFCP)? = Won=E2=80=99t it be more efficient for implementations to grab the URI = itself anyway and check that the scheme matches the m-line? Thanks, Alissa > On Jan 17, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) = wrote: >=20 > Alissa, >=20 > I am fine with the proposed text. >=20 > Thanks, > Ram >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Alissa Cooper > Date: Tuesday, 17 January 2017 at 8:07 PM > To: Alexey Melnikov > Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" = , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" = , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , = "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" , "Ram Mohan R = (rmohanr)" > Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on = draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 > Alexey, would the following changes clarify things? >=20 > Section 4.1 > OLD > the server side, which could be either > the offerer or answerer, MUST add an "a=3Dws-uri" or "a=3Dwss-uri"= > attribute in the media section > NEW > the server side, which could be either > the offerer or answerer, MUST add an "a=3Dws-uri" or = "a=3Dwss-uri=E2=80=9D > attribute (but not both) in the media section >=20 > Section 4.3 > OLD > If the answers assigns SDP "setup" attribute with "passive", then = it > MUST have a URI in either "a=3Dws-uri" or "a=3Dwss-uri" = attribute > depending on whether the application uses WebSocket or > secureWebSocket. > NEW > If the answers assigns SDP "setup" attribute with "passive", then = it > MUST have a URI in either "a=3Dws-uri" or "a=3Dwss-uri" = attribute > (but not both) in the media section, depending on whether the = application uses WebSocket or > secureWebSocket. >=20 > Ram, would you be okay with those clarifications? >=20 > Alissa >=20 >=20 >> On Jan 16, 2017, at 10:09 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Alexey, >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alexey Melnikov >> Date: Monday, 16 January 2017 at 8:25 PM >> To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , The IESG = >> Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" = , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" = , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , = "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" >> Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on = draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>=20 >> Hi Ram, >>=20 >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017, at 02:49 PM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: >>> Hi Alexey, >>>=20 >>> Please see inline >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Alexey Melnikov >>> Date: Monday, 16 January 2017 at 7:57 PM >>> To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , The IESG = >>> Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" >>> , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" >>> , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , >>> "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" >>> Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on >>> draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>>=20 >>> Hi Ram, >>>=20 >>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017, at 06:09 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: >>>> Hi Alexey, >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks for your feedback. Please see inline >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: bfcpbis on behalf of Alexey = Melnikov >>>> >>>> Date: Saturday, 14 January 2017 at 3:49 AM >>>> To: The IESG >>>> Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" >>>> , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" >>>> , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , >>>> "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" >>>> Subject: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on >>>> draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>>>=20 >>>> Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for >>>> draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: Discuss >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> DISCUSS: >>>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>=20 >>>> This is generally a well written document, but I have a small = list of >>>> issues that I would like to discuss before recommending its = approval: >>>>=20 >>>> 1) Are a=3Dws-uri and a=3Dwss-uri mutually exclusive? (Section = 4.3 is a >>>> good >>>> place to mention what to do if both are specified). >>>>=20 >>>> Yes kind of. In a given media line (m=3D line) we will either = have >>>> a=3Dws-uri or a=3Dwss-uri. That said a response from a BFCP server = using >>>> webSocket as a transport can >>>> have two media lines one with ws and other with wss. Something = like: >>>>=20 >>>> Answer (server): >>>> m=3Dapplication 50000 TCP/WSS/BFCP * >>>> a=3Dsetup:passive >>>> a=3Dconnection:new >>>> a=3Dwss-uri:wss://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3D3170449312 >>>> m=3Dapplication 50000 TCP/WS/BFCP * >>>> a=3Dsetup:passive >>>> a=3Dconnection:new >>>> a=3Dws-uri:ws://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3D3170449312 >>>=20 >>> [Alexey]: This is exactly my problem, you should specify how a >>> recipient >>> should handle your example above. If you only have 1 attribute, = the >>> problem goes away entirely. >>>=20 >>> in the above case, they are still two different m=3D lines. = The >>> receiver (after offer/answer is done) of this SDP connects to the = URI >>> mentioned in that m=3D line.=20 >>> Note I just re-used the same URL/port in the example above. If there = are >>> multiple m=3Dapplication media lines (they will be for different >>> applications) being negotiated in SDP, one application may use = secure WS >>> and other application may use non-secure WS. The client after it = receives >>> the answer SDP will just setup the connection to the URI specified = in the >>> attribute. =20 >>=20 >> Sorry, I was thinking about different example: >>=20 >> m=3Dapplication 50000 TCP/WSS/BFCP * >> a=3Dsetup:passive >> a=3Dconnection:new >> a=3Dwss-uri:wss://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3D3170449312 >> a=3Dws-uri:ws://bfcp-ws.example.com?token=3D3170449312 >>=20 >> You have 2 conflicting URIs for the same m=3D line. Is this = possible? >>=20 >> No this is not possible. If the transport is TCP/WSS/BFCP we = should have only a=3Dwss-uri. If transport is TCP/WS/BFCP we should have = only a=3Dws-uri. >>=20 >> Regards, >> Ram >>=20 >>> I don=E2=80=99t see any problem in here. =20 >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> Ram >>>=20 >>>> Why not a single attribute, considering that both ws: and wss: = URIs >>>> are >>>> possible? >>>>=20 >>>> I would still prefer two attributes. We just followed the >>>> convention / approach that was used in [RFC6455]. =20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Jan 18 12:46:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C6A012940D; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:46:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Kathleen Moriarty" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148477238653.1935.13141262288783728473.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:46:26 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org, bfcpbis@ietf.org, eckelcu@cisco.com, bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:46:26 -0000 Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I may have missed it, but don't see a clear reason (would expect to see it in the security considerations section) as to why TLS isn't a MUST. RECOMMENDED is good, but having a reason to justify this would be helpful. It seems like it is for legacy support of HTTP applications, but spelling that out might be helpful. From nobody Wed Jan 18 13:50:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A172C1294E6; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 13:50:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jari Arkko" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148477620464.2006.18263271376456351206.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 13:50:04 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: rjsparks@nostrum.com, bfcpbis@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org, eckelcu@cisco.com, bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] Jari Arkko's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 21:50:04 -0000 Jari Arkko has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There is ongoing discussion based on the security considerations questions from Robert Sparks in his Gen-ART review. That discussion is not yet finished, but needs to finish before we can approve this document. From nobody Wed Jan 18 13:53:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0188B1294E6; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 13:53:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ghctnhMJ-WQu; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 13:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2565129437; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 13:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 002CE2CD02; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 23:53:20 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jw7cVIVyViYH; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 23:53:19 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5252CCAF; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 23:53:19 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D2DD44A3-FA33-4150-9F52-37D7895B4B08"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 23:53:18 +0200 Message-Id: <3365DA0B-F80A-4E92-AE2F-A877C72A8DF7@piuha.net> References: <148253493203.16856.4857620752315294427.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <571231A9-2757-4B86-BC65-2491B6B7F882@cisco.com> To: "Joel M. Halpern" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri.all@ietf.org" , "Ram Mohan R \(rmohanr\)" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Review of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-07 X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 21:53:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D2DD44A3-FA33-4150-9F52-37D7895B4B08 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Joel, Ram =97 thanks for the review and fixes! Jari --Apple-Mail=_D2DD44A3-FA33-4150-9F52-37D7895B4B08 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYf+POAAoJEM80gCTQU46qilsQAL+njK5SwFOhKl26/SKHRuzo PkgsRCuYKVvcOJWfjsgI4zHjXA8WgG8V7zmvu3OsDszlPqMdGyD4kCWPTriAspeY vHQiF7iS4gVm3nc3UwgWsk1CN1O6uciAeHz8CEW4S8sRsPxD3wBhZq5QhbSeSXLM JVihCDmxomXHc5Q76D52My46FGRQr93Co/rdGJ6yvjg8MrgIKlx8+Z3wXgwGK4AR Xvbxk0Rr40c0C8pcBuZKQdyd5HuUM3/wfKWE7ggpYFkXTj0vNK+VjqOtGKPYYJBo YOF+Paij/SBpS5QreQhbir42cH1RlA7g/J8tQ3jS/aSTys198yPrez4e4nd2Eysy K7qYg5h/DyCYbRNnkeMDQ3yRaKYs7DQVu+miqe2Q6DadYNrSdqLjm6Ial5jT/I6P Pb/YjWNLg37rV/t4Kl1vZyYxZMZ+xNnGRi7ktsxl5y+47v98V+JkFE67zzg4Nzjm Sk02DiaHe3ibzeMYMcFI0jRdilxq3mlm7+vifeISG3CcDOU1yamkFoou+DE0bKS6 oE6SjFqihNR7cIIlUcBawhQ4tSKDIiqBvwb5bkJz1KSh8bBL+QSlQQeD9HDxxlhp ws+BWhWxS4pyw/TZQynsAUnt5sV8pHP/bMo++CIuEpgUCMPtlPIzPJkzWD6fvwGh N+Bpq0sEozf6fX++8AGX =I8LA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_D2DD44A3-FA33-4150-9F52-37D7895B4B08-- From nobody Wed Jan 18 15:40:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4304E126D74; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:40:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ben Campbell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148478285523.2190.2128906462944738445.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:40:55 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: bfcpbis@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org, eckelcu@cisco.com, bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 23:40:55 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I plan to ballot "yes" for this document, but I have some concerns about the security properties that I think need to be resolved first. I have followed the discussion resulting from Robert's Gen-ART review (and will have comments about that in the "COMMENTS section", but I think I see an additional issue that hasn't been covered in that discussion. draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis (currently in the RFC Editors queue) defines some situations where TLS and client authentication are normatively required. Specifically, section 9 of that draft says that, if the signaling channel is authenticated and has confidentiality and integrity protection, the BFCP client MUST be authenticated. Section 14 additionally says that under those circumstances, BFCP is REQUIRED to use the mandated cryptographic algorithm. But bfcp-websocket only says that WSS and client authentication are RECOMMENDED. I think this could be fixed by requiring WSS, and the web-based client authentication techniques described in this draft whenever the signaling protocol is secured. The simplest way to describe that might be to say that BFCP-websocket must use at least as strong protections as the signaling channel. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I appreciate the author's efforts in resolving the security considerations issues from Robert's Gen-ART review, but I don't think the current text is quite there yet. Version 14 added the text to say that, when using websockets, the websocket security mechanisms are used instead of those from draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis. But Robert also asked for the draft to describe how that change impacts the security analysis in draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis. I don't see text that does that. I'd like to see, for each of the attacks described in draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis, text that says describes how (or if) a similar attack would be mitigated using websocket. -4.2, first paragraph: You talk about how the payload size limit is smaller when using websocket. Can you give guidance for actual reasonable limits? -5, 2nd paragraph: "The BFCP server is a will have a globally routable address" Is there an implied MUST hiding in there? Also, there's a typo around "is will have". -8, paragraph 8: Is the point that you SHOULD authenticate the client, or that if you want to authenticate the client you SHOULD do it this way? I suspect the former is intended, but the text implies the latter. From nobody Wed Jan 18 19:07:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C6C712940F; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:07:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ben Campbell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148479523358.2237.1559325648971286444.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:07:13 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org, bfcpbis@ietf.org, eckelcu@cisco.com, bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 03:07:13 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- How does this interact with websocket sub-protocol specifications? Is there an expectation one might take some existing media protocol and use it with this draft _without_ a sub-protocol spec? I note the examples use bfcp, which in fact has a sub-protocol spec on this same telechat. (Most of my detailed comments are related to this) - 4.2, first paragraph: Am I correct that the "proto" field would also include the sub-protocol? (e.g. TCP/WSS/BFCP)? Would you ever have a "proto" filed value of just "TCP/WS(S)? - 4.2, 2nd paragraph I wonder if the guidance here (the recommendation that the offerer is the active party) doesn't vary by sub-protocol? Or if it doesn't, if it's more a matter of topology (e.g. servers with global IP addresses vs clients behind NATs) than a matter of who sends the offer? Also, please consider citing 4145 in this paragraph. (You do in 4.3). From nobody Wed Jan 18 19:38:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC40128824; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:38:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2JBQaW2Nmt-n; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:38:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from 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(rmohanr)" To: Robert Sparks , "gen-art@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13 Thread-Index: AQHSZtrvLlWBbuxPF0Ot2Hb1sMMLCaE7V2SAgAHZcICAArxVAA== Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 03:37:59 +0000 Message-ID: <71C7D0A4-33D3-4A8C-87BF-1DBD260C5E4A@cisco.com> References: <148356935771.12990.3012565684208685571.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.196.92.111] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket.all@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , Jari Arkko , "ietf@ietf.org" , Alissa Cooper Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Review of draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13 X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 03:38:03 -0000 SnVzdCB0byBjbG9zZSB0aGlzIHRocmVhZC4gV2UgaGFkIGFuIG9mZmxpbmUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiB3 aXRoIFJvYmVydCBhbmQgcG9zdGVkIGEgbmV3IHJldmlzaW9uIHdpdGggaGlzIGNvbW1lbnRzIGlu Y29ycG9yYXRlZC4gQmVsb3cgYXJlIHRoZSBjaGFuZ2VzDQoNCkluIHNlY3VyaXR5IGNvbnNpZGVy YXRpb24gc2VjdGlvbiB3ZSBhZGRlZDoNCldoZW4gdXNpbmcgQkZDUCBvdmVyIHdlYnNvY2tldHMs IHRoZSBzZWN1cml0eSBtZWNoYW5pc21zIGRlZmluZWQgaW4NCiAgIFtJLUQuaWV0Zi1iZmNwYmlz LXJmYzQ1ODJiaXNdIGFyZSBub3QgdXNlZC4gIEluc3RlYWQsIHRoZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbg0KICAg aXMgcmVxdWlyZWQgdG8gYnVpbGQgYW5kIHJlbHkgb24gdGhlIHNlY3VyaXR5IG1lY2hhbmlzbXMg aW4NCiAgIFtSRkM2NDU1XS4NCg0KT24gdGhlIHBvaW50IGFib3V0IHdlYnNvY2tldCBsaWJyYXJp ZXMgZ2l2aW5nIHRoZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbiB0aGUgY29udHJvbCB0byBzZWxlY3QgdGhlIGFsZ29y aXRobSB0byB1c2UgZm9yIFRMUyBzZXR1cCwgdGhlcmUgaXMgbm8gc3VjaCBjb250cm9sIHByb3Zp 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XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 23:00:11 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Alissa Cooper Thread-Topic: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSbeseZdw0JJoDs02EXfYysuX0qaE7UlwAgAAvAwCAAGIlAP//pZyAgABgG4CAAS0tAIAAXSIAgAGXSoCAANpmAA== Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 04:00:11 +0000 Message-ID: <67E82966-54E2-403B-9684-2F8580B75A9E@cisco.com> References: <148434596441.9752.6696571117558965561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1484576862.2842665.849203352.4F87F4EA@webmail.messagingengine.com> <30CC3092-0ED4-4983-8203-8394FD06D0A9@cisco.com> <1484578527.2848348.849241320.7317C68A@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3E8813A2-FC3D-433F-B51B-41380ABD3D95@cooperw.in> <60D33439-D03C-4E3D-A293-9DE608AC5DB4@cisco.com> <6E698BCA-2F14-4660-B053-BEDA42860B86@cooperw.in> In-Reply-To: <6E698BCA-2F14-4660-B053-BEDA42860B86@cooperw.in> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.196.92.111] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <12511A574B95F444B6F78BBF26A660C1@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" , Alexey Melnikov , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , The IESG Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 04:00:15 -0000 SGkgQWxpc3NhLA0KDQpJIGRvbuKAmXQgaGF2ZSBhIHN0cm9uZyBvcGluaW9uIG9uIHRoaXMuIEVp 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CiAgICA+IA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Thu Jan 19 04:58:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietf.org Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A68B1293E8; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 04:58:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148483073216.10382.9377294000590118868.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 04:58:52 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: bfcpbis@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org, eckelcu@cisco.com, bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bfcpbis] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:58:52 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - I support Ben's discuss and hope the discussion about the gen-art review continues and reaches a good conclusion. - WRT Kathleen's comment, while I think it'd be a fine thing were HOBA usable with ws/wss, I doubt that browsers will do that, so adding the reference may be misleading. From nobody Thu Jan 19 06:01:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80A7A1295D5; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 06:01:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=EHdXw0vI; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=lFGeGEse Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N3bI5Ad9I-ej; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 06:01:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC2001295D0; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 06:01:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C1A20651; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 09:01:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from web5 ([10.202.2.215]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 19 Jan 2017 09:01:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=Ofs5pd8NikVP3c5EhJczYOA5DB 4=; b=EHdXw0vIO54tfSzSDODCXqI7xSzqllfMtARqfEh6kGAqKes7m6RSnRr+b1 C++2LaIzGgiPch6/ABxkDoe+d/8FXbJTzIdAcxoINRS+5vo8oilF2KyXG8/FRhrH eDIBRUxCw4nSwVHpYV2Y6h5a3T4bMQF+LCpTIM+KSHaf+jUk4= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=Of s5pd8NikVP3c5EhJczYOA5DB4=; b=lFGeGEse9N/sLaY0KakT8ccYwKwlHGcKh4 ltJks31URmwTD0dVyAa5LcBFzsHWEWydDtNOo/59UXVoUAeEKHKhnaL0inNaFm2M NGSLcw9zgpIgCfnG2iGVX+pzT5ZbbsimvwBSrUjFrDlF/yzBWjnv4RwBBg/yW4Gg O6v0DxTHE= X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 08EBD6ABF3; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 09:01:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1484834486.429378.852857416.0FD086B0@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , The IESG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-ebcecf34 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:01:26 +0000 References: <148434596441.9752.6696571117558965561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org, bfcpbis@ietf.org, "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:01:34 -0000 Hi Ram, On Mon, Jan 16, 2017, at 06:09 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: > Hi Alexey, > > Thanks for your feedback. Please see inline > 2) In Section 6: how is Websocket TLS server identity verified? > > [rfc7525] which is referred in this draft has some text (in Section 6) > on how server certs can be verified. Do you see a need to anything > specific in this draft? As hostname verification is often omitted in naive implementations, I would rather this was called out explicitly. For example: 6. Security Considerations The WebSocket clients have to initiate the TCP connection to the WebSocket server identified by the FQDN in a=ws/a=wss-uri. Further as with any other web connection, the clients will verify the servers certificate. The WebSocket client MUST follow the procedures in [RFC7525] while setting up TLS connection with webSocket server. I would insert "(including hostname verification as per section 6.1 in [RFC7525])" after "[RFC7525]" above. Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Thu Jan 19 06:18:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC0F21295F7; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 06:18:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vK5dFCyeYIUh; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 06:18:41 -0800 (PST) Received: 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Jan 2017 09:18:39 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Alexey Melnikov , The IESG Thread-Topic: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSbeseZdw0JJoDs02EXfYysuX0qaE7UlwAgATeqwCAAGECAA== Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:18:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <148434596441.9752.6696571117558965561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1484834486.429378.852857416.0FD086B0@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1484834486.429378.852857416.0FD086B0@webmail.messagingengine.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.37.142] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <41AE2CDFFF3AFA4684B1E3E1B330DBA9@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:18:43 -0000 SGkgQWxleHksDQoNCkkgd2lsbCBpbmNvcnBvcmF0ZSB0aGUgYmVsb3cgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbiBmcm9t IHlvdS4gDQoNClRoYW5rcywNClJhbQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJv bTogQWxleGV5IE1lbG5pa292IDxhYW1lbG5pa292QGZhc3RtYWlsLmZtPg0KRGF0ZTogVGh1cnNk YXksIDE5IEphbnVhcnkgMjAxNyBhdCA3OjMxIFBNDQpUbzogIlJhbSBNb2hhbiBSIChybW9oYW5y KSIgPHJtb2hhbnJAY2lzY28uY29tPiwgVGhlIElFU0cgPGllc2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpDYzogImRy YWZ0LWlldGYtYmZjcGJpcy1zZHAtd3MtdXJpQGlldGYub3JnIiA8ZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1iZmNwYmlz 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Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Kathleen Moriarty , The IESG Thread-Topic: [bfcpbis] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSccvzicC2YxaLEkmgOd4T5l0SJ6FRJoKA Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 04:27:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <148477238653.1935.13141262288783728473.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148477238653.1935.13141262288783728473.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.143.30.47] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 04:27:29 -0000 SGkgS2F0aGxlZW4sDQoNClBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5lIDxSYW0+DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwg TWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBiZmNwYmlzIDxiZmNwYmlzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+IG9u IGJlaGFsZiBvZiBLYXRobGVlbiBNb3JpYXJ0eSA8S2F0aGxlZW4uTW9yaWFydHkuaWV0ZkBnbWFp bC5jb20+DQpEYXRlOiBUaHVyc2RheSwgMTkgSmFudWFyeSAyMDE3IGF0IDI6MTYgQU0NClRvOiBU aGUgSUVTRyA8aWVzZ0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NCkNjOiAiZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1iZmNwYmlzLXNkcC13cy11 cmlAaWV0Zi5vcmciIDxkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWJmY3BiaXMtc2RwLXdzLXVyaUBpZXRmLm9yZz4sICJi ZmNwYmlzQGlldGYub3JnIiA8YmZjcGJpc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4sICJDaGFybGVzIEVja2VsIChlY2tl bGN1KSIgPGVja2VsY3VAY2lzY28uY29tPiwgImJmY3BiaXMtY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnIiA8YmZj cGJpcy1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbYmZjcGJpc10gS2F0aGxlZW4gTW9yaWFy 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Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com (64.101.220.157) by XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com (64.101.220.160) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 00:04:53 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) by XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 00:04:54 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Ben Campbell , The IESG Thread-Topic: Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHScgEleXSYQKQ27UWX/97BnqiwA6FROMiA Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 05:04:53 +0000 Message-ID: <96EDC9AC-B59B-4EDB-BF9F-45682013A03C@cisco.com> References: <148479523358.2237.1559325648971286444.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148479523358.2237.1559325648971286444.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.143.30.47] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <59391BDE4E7CF249B5402085DF7CA664@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 05:04:58 -0000 SGkgQmVuLA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZSBmb3IgPFJhbT4NCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBN ZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEJlbiBDYW1wYmVsbCA8YmVuQG5vc3RydW0uY29tPg0KRGF0ZTog VGh1cnNkYXksIDE5IEphbnVhcnkgMjAxNyBhdCA4OjM3IEFNDQpUbzogVGhlIElFU0cgPGllc2dA 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([173.37.93.147]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 30 Jan 2017 05:30:24 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-018.cisco.com (xch-rtp-018.cisco.com [64.101.220.158]) by rcdn-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v0U5UNTj019387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 30 Jan 2017 05:30:24 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com (64.101.220.157) by XCH-RTP-018.cisco.com (64.101.220.158) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 00:30:22 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) by XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 00:30:22 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Alissa Cooper , Alexey Melnikov , Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSbeseZdw0JJoDs02EXfYysuX0qaE7UlwAgAAvAwCAAGIlAP//pZyAgABgG4CAAS0tAIAAXSIAgAGXSoCAANpmAIARYtkA 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, "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , The IESG , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-sdp-ws-uri-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 05:30:31 -0000 --_003_CD64A07293BA4C01850F1654FAA59549ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgQWxleGV5L2FsbCwNCg0KUGxlYXNlIGZpbmQgdGhlIGRpZmZzIHdpdGggdGhlIGNoYW5nZXMg dG8gdXNlIHNpbmdsZSBhdHRyaWJ1dGUuIFRoaXMgZGlmZiBhbHNvIGhhcyBvdGhlciBjb21tZW50 cyBmcm9tIEJlbiwgS2F0aGxlZW4gaW5jb3Jwb3JhdGVkLg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KUmFtDQoNCi0t LS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiAiUmFtIE1vaGFuIFIgKHJtb2hhbnIpIiA8 cm1vaGFuckBjaXNjby5jb20+DQpEYXRlOiBUaHVyc2RheSwgMTkgSmFudWFyeSAyMDE3IGF0IDk6 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R (rmohanr)" To: Spencer Dawkins , The IESG Thread-Topic: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHScNkACrTHzuLnYUCVszFqszkAeaFRpT4A Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:24:48 +0000 Message-ID: <616B68FF-11A7-49D4-BB60-121A2A5C786A@cisco.com> References: <148466803770.32051.5938243863646069856.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148466803770.32051.5938243863646069856.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.143.30.47] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on 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alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 30 Jan 2017 15:11:22 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-018.cisco.com (xch-rtp-018.cisco.com [64.101.220.158]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v0UFBMkp001542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:11:22 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com (64.101.220.157) by XCH-RTP-018.cisco.com (64.101.220.158) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:11:21 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) by XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:11:21 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Alexey Melnikov , The IESG Thread-Topic: Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHScN+m3ScWswMku0+y1F9K/iBRD6FR5HwA Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:11:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <148467088398.32098.5746976377858263906.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148467088398.32098.5746976377858263906.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.75.132] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <16D1759D9F783D4DB3951BBE0F884259@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: 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Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSccKvjyuyRcnCxUGP9NblC2p5S6FR4uSA Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:12:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <148476840952.2190.615912845986321795.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148476840952.2190.615912845986321795.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.75.132] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <416463C56C5FF44DB826CEA018FB7D8F@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: (with COMMENT) 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15:13:29 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com (xch-rtp-017.cisco.com [64.101.220.157]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v0UFDSUl002915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:13:29 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com (64.101.220.157) by XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com (64.101.220.157) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:13:28 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) by XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:13:28 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Stephen Farrell , The IESG Thread-Topic: Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSclPLj7Olf4czeU6xdHTDtvBr4KFR4iuA Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:13:27 +0000 Message-ID: <06251372-30D2-4BAF-B11E-6E356671D88A@cisco.com> References: <148483073216.10382.9377294000590118868.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148483073216.10382.9377294000590118868.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.75.132] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <94816DD11F3F8048879704A658B775CD@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:20:16 -0000 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dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wjfR6qJtnnCa; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:24:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt0-x22a.google.com (mail-qt0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5719129548; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:24:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id k15so208857649qtg.3; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:24:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cK3oOpSZRJ/Bqw0sQqiH7GmaG47lj5Trp31sVM7ymag=; b=pTAznNx8C0fFfxXmFwYTNKoRVk6/+tvSvZ/zT+YBeXp1D20XF1dxXkE2CB1VgtNW4h pjgDwNK3n/wTyUDgUzX+6fROa6vjCPY3zc/wCH4hZ1Q0U80XQb2TRtgLkaVHeC9dw5Wh 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e35mr21001891qtc.30.1485793482972; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:24:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.170.30 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:24:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <148476840952.2190.615912845986321795.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:24:42 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org" , The IESG , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 16:24:46 -0000 Hi Ram, On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: > Hi Kathleen, > > Please see inline > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kathleen Moriarty > Date: Thursday, 19 January 2017 at 1:10 AM > To: The IESG > Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , "bfcpb= is-chairs@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" > Subject: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-webs= ocket-14: (with COMMENT) > Resent-From: > Resent-To: , , , , , > Resent-Date: Thursday, 19 January 2017 at 1:10 AM > > Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut th= is > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.= html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > I agree with Alexey's comment on section 8. If fallback to HTTP > authentication happens, the implementer should be aware of the weakne= sses > in HTTP basic [RFC7617] and digest [RFC7616] spelled out in the > respective security considerations sections. The HTTPAuth WG put out= a > few experimental RFCs with methods to eliminate some of the weaknesse= s, > like HOBA [RFC7486] that gets rid of the need for passwords. Adding = this > detail would be helpful. > > Does this text looks ok ? > > EXISTING: > If the status code received from the server is not 101, > the WebSocket client stack handles the response per HTTP > [RFC7230] procedures, in particular the > client might perform authentication if it receives 401 > status code. > NEW: > If the status code received from the server is not 101, > the WebSocket client stack handles the response per HTTP > [RFC7230] procedures, in particular the > client might perform authentication if it receives 401 > status code. The WebSocket clients are vulnerable to the attac= ks > of basic authentication (mentioned in Section 4 of [RFC7617]) an= d > digest authentication (mentioned in Section 5 of [RFC7616]). To o= vercome > some of these weakness, the WebSocket clients can use HTTP Origin= -Bound Authentication (HOBA) > mechanism mentioned in [RFC7486]. This looks good, but HOBA is just one of 3 experimental options to improve HTTPAuth. SCRAM, RFC7804, is one of the other options, then the third is in 3 RFCs that are int he RFC editor queue. You could list one as an example or maybe add in SCRAM too. Thank you, Kathleen > > > > --=20 Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Mon Jan 30 08:43:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85E8012945C; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:43:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 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with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:42:54 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Kathleen Moriarty Thread-Topic: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSccKvjyuyRcnCxUGP9NblC2p5S6FR4uSA//+4IACAAGFHAA== Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 16:42:54 +0000 Message-ID: <5BE73E23-4BA9-4706-946C-2FC333E71EEB@cisco.com> References: <148476840952.2190.615912845986321795.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.75.132] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5A9B3ACBF8B8264F91FE7EEC5847575A@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org" , 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4t76RVK97oR9xkRRf9uB0qrUn7wIVo7ZzyQLV0mCyXs=; b=SqrT0iYSWFvZY/XvNRkDZaGTXLVyMsrbn+5XjDYARrqKZPdxfjr5KH/m3MIoE8/eQJ Kmxkygxa0+C/1NIu+9+xNM0xbP85926XG8KWFwuHRTsO5Yi0k3mJhNlLYL+g5IfL/yUN DSQoGEQtReOGJtHPcDgO00auo5k32wXzk3SvWgvp1FvXrDghrmlnzBJ0y2cTiffDfUHc jpmA+60U1nuNfIY+mgo8TpgYyyZ2fggSUgyKbC86ti8vSGSWCiIyeKnk27kKX7VXspMf DSlQ1mEmbBGrWW3zYXLZn7FdN2uCpzBKj5KReSJASZASK9lA3jhVKAjGXb+18raf7I8V ++cw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4t76RVK97oR9xkRRf9uB0qrUn7wIVo7ZzyQLV0mCyXs=; b=Q5vslGyig1blzucsR8ynWPk6TQmTXAx/5OQRTYM8C6zXnhTRlKjHzMt4Xib0xbylYw 6aKi2f2pfVtEdaFcRC0M+OE+rBw9otxG9UtjKoX3KJP99RWQ/cNpZd3hZdMipER01BYn AlyBs9SPghhudPXAvrAQ4PaT7tVOl52C7ipGOl7lehYim8iB4/a1qS5ThM5qZCkAUhqJ W5gMhguWZfOAsiiIGO/9KRxe9J2to1I91ErIC3DIQbY8blupex3vgpnQ7snnYEtaTBV2 rbwkekd6tgsbKZbAS0+3euhr+72jxuN9/JkRv3VUguUSYp/pfPUhyTFnw21K/twbPzXR TTEA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXIISce0naEVdlRdysawXAVA2JNLei5X0mvPSZ9simXN9i0pTCKVmJn3B5RvgcKTTuVZcDpbv3waKKgDsQ== X-Received: by 10.55.9.15 with SMTP id 15mr22585196qkj.118.1485797118089; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 09:25:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.170.30 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 09:25:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5BE73E23-4BA9-4706-946C-2FC333E71EEB@cisco.com> References: <148476840952.2190.615912845986321795.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5BE73E23-4BA9-4706-946C-2FC333E71EEB@cisco.com> From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:25:17 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "bfcpbis@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org" , The IESG , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 17:25:21 -0000 Thank you, Ram. On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: > HI Kathleen, > > I will add the text =E2=80=9Cas an example=E2=80=9D to the sentence. > > Thanks, > Ram > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kathleen Moriarty > Date: Monday, 30 January 2017 at 9:54 PM > To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" > Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org= " , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <= eckelcu@cisco.com>, "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" , "b= fcpbis@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-= websocket-14: (with COMMENT) > > Hi Ram, > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) > wrote: > > Hi Kathleen, > > > > Please see inline > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kathleen Moriarty > > Date: Thursday, 19 January 2017 at 1:10 AM > > To: The IESG > > Cc: "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , = "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" , "Charles Eckel (eckelc= u)" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" > > Subject: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfc= p-websocket-14: (with COMMENT) > > Resent-From: > > Resent-To: , ,= , , , > > Resent-Date: Thursday, 19 January 2017 at 1:10 AM > > > > Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websocket-14: No Objection > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply = to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to = cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-cri= teria.html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found h= ere: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfcpbis-bfcp-websoc= ket/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > > > > I agree with Alexey's comment on section 8. If fallback to HTT= P > > authentication happens, the implementer should be aware of the = weaknesses > > in HTTP basic [RFC7617] and digest [RFC7616] spelled out in the > > respective security considerations sections. The HTTPAuth WG p= ut out a > > few experimental RFCs with methods to eliminate some of the wea= knesses, > > like HOBA [RFC7486] that gets rid of the need for passwords. A= dding this > > detail would be helpful. > > > > Does this text looks ok ? > > > > EXISTING: > > If the status code received from the server is not 101, > > the WebSocket client stack handles the response per HTTP > > [RFC7230] procedures, in particular the > > client might perform authentication if it receives 401 > > status code. > > NEW: > > If the status code received from the server is not 101, > > the WebSocket client stack handles the response per HTTP > > [RFC7230] procedures, in particular the > > client might perform authentication if it receives 401 > > status code. The WebSocket clients are vulnerable to the= attacks > > of basic authentication (mentioned in Section 4 of [RFC761= 7]) and > > digest authentication (mentioned in Section 5 of [RFC7616])= . To overcome > > some of these weakness, the WebSocket clients can use HTTP = Origin-Bound Authentication (HOBA) > > mechanism mentioned in [RFC7486]. > > This looks good, but HOBA is just one of 3 experimental options to > improve HTTPAuth. SCRAM, RFC7804, is one of the other options, then > the third is in 3 RFCs that are int he RFC editor queue. You could > list one as an example or maybe add in SCRAM too. > > Thank you, > Kathleen > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Best regards, > Kathleen > > --=20 Best regards, Kathleen