From nobody Sat Sep 2 16:17:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C40D3132355 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2017 16:17:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6y7na_pTDAuE for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2017 16:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x231.google.com (mail-lf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 048C8132E0E for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2017 16:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id a126so10351337lfa.0 for ; Sat, 02 Sep 2017 16:17:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=J6FcYLr91tSlSTW07SFwDvNr8rcnmM3+TaQC/Y20ojw=; b=bCG3rS+rW2sD6u7UKWvA7PQINvmkZBNdj8quKYI8ccDrY1Cj5yyOh4aLrCuehUQx51 ZYe43U977GQ7NpHwhOBwya2zYKp4VhnYrlVIfGhbSSj2rMwiest2OE7PVMy6xzOz7xyx H+YQfDev8gnt695AKpuPoGJMuXba7HxHVSitMANBnKWPBfosiiS6uMSVxqtbn7apnyGD Oof4/690/zyGODQI5dWdiY1j4hgCQidPvnCXCY1T52sOoBLoL5+Dqq5f4O4rCAa+Dwmd B2iEyB/7cQUtG9FPWFdCJE50OIZDNZRcO6vmcO4VdqoX9R9ZNZ9kbWiyi9kZPfZTRdOK delQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=J6FcYLr91tSlSTW07SFwDvNr8rcnmM3+TaQC/Y20ojw=; b=PGUvmNnbLJZbEbjmIBhp2PNaIqTZ4RxkAKRcXGVpIKcztIyTSfxILRUwQ8gEmIdHTK FHl2nyD4KX/j14NYhFDLygOeQnlNRX6aXBXNKKhKKshCTVhE56boLfy5xs8x1vA+IB69 fdC/r/7B1YjRSyF9Cou1kNdOEWdPyb9QV21UjOBbeHaLSFHeb4stOU+EKCSWKLqgjMn0 D/dt905jXlZJWSo79YzocBe5QAsxijcRnzaOlANsaeJpbWMcPrpRgnsTVhEqDJ/HpveK K7aUwJxCR9R999ChZmuiXaPBR8SUODMbp2gYDLpFz/aGCaSW1jazyLwjID+Efw7SESBB NbMg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhlIiX98rvBZp9X77c7QZBHeBjhxgKdEVHHgm7f909az4opkc1I 1xn8iw7kejQBzNpd7ad0/CIiO8I0sw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb5STuC0m8F6KS1c6ER2IqWyJHe1+FRLs4eT9FvixGZedNxqIkEEK/Bz6Kz76t+nZws4fucnN2pKHKmjn2imTY8= X-Received: by 10.46.5.16 with SMTP id 16mr1035384ljf.155.1504394269126; Sat, 02 Sep 2017 16:17:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.88.81 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Sep 2017 16:17:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 16:17:48 -0700 Message-ID: To: Greg Shepherd Cc: "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114a72b203733b05583d16ea" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-eckert-bier-te-arch X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2017 23:17:53 -0000 --001a114a72b203733b05583d16ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear All, Toerless and I had very good technical discussion off-list. I now support adoption of both documents. Regards, Greg On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Greg Shepherd wrote: > We had solid support in the room in Prague to adopt this work. So let's > get a vote from the list. Please read and respond for or against adopting > this as a WG document: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-bier-te-arch/ > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-bier-te-frr/ > > Cheers, > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > --001a114a72b203733b05583d16ea Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
Toerless and I had very good technical discu= ssion off-list. I now support adoption of both documents.=C2=A0
<= br>
Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Greg Shephe= rd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
We had solid support in the room in Prague to adopt this= work. So let's get a vote from the list. Please read and respond for o= r against adopting this as a WG document:


--001a114a72b203733b05583d16ea-- From nobody Fri Sep 8 06:47:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE471321A4 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 06:47:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=nuagenetworks-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B57vK43QIRPo for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 06:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x229.google.com (mail-qk0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 082AC132153 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 06:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x229.google.com with SMTP id r141so6370740qke.2 for ; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 06:47:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nuagenetworks-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=7xQmej2qu3O2MigKuvFvRA79FEstF6Ew/5saZMzArpI=; b=NB+jn0WffBkDD5i7bClulY3u4xXEEMisuGGNcXNeBv2sgL21xuYf+1kQyzv76MeaY2 EeHnVFmaiUwite5QLSPhCeIykjsW1Rp0W0YvisEoJCaz4dT2b1l34+0ce66yBSs2oaa8 +Sq34eKzrRQngBin0bMgB9RuLTH0ol2I8gmLwV1aWV8Mc26m2QVBfHVJ/2ppo0onJ1BS /g848kXvALOlyKE9eMukzNzWD2Ykx2eJYL8kPNERtWx3/Uw4li9z1F86V3dbCh2sVEvy Qyucrr8mUwlcS6CxTZLYrmd4Unz2p1rVzaiuYG1gsjL+/080LBRAyy4iXOawcCfXVfv0 pLZQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=7xQmej2qu3O2MigKuvFvRA79FEstF6Ew/5saZMzArpI=; b=LgymvKMBx+ipnF8qgr51x/cmfRlQDb1tTwXtm1qJyFOkk88HYyUllLv6eZ4XfpSkpb Ng4eefqNlSoCaAjAO+1STrCIidM+U6i7j7fLFX/odpj+551Os99S9bBoK3TO70Fm73Ld BYvDYaeuzWG3/E9CbrvKWYvGaL/koBAi1Rx4fEv+2Ya9dlDCi6mLzPEeZFNZToB+mY25 1UqUNdGYLUT91OINgu7MmxF65Le4o0KWcr/EPyHcuJlGTXKJYP9Lo5MGgxMUZw3RGk3R KgnNmWNTRm3CSD6chJR3meJcjtzuj3A34J/5T4oqKG1csOAYVYTZaCTReeZIS2nPbY50 x2XQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgHsBS7LPZ8RHgrJlhZ2550Ee6m3nY5cX+7x5niqTFDcjTc1GpO hufzgtiqdP+Llc6OUBFz5w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAGLL9soNVEc0Lcfn/XVyQZcCYfAcisYWqSU8sMxOvnPi6psK1lvALj0o8X5LPV59sVC6QV0w== X-Received: by 10.233.220.199 with SMTP id q190mr3668663qkf.222.1504878452028; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 06:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.8] (ool-45721f4b.dyn.optonline.net. [69.114.31.75]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y11sm1279138qkb.20.2017.09.08.06.47.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 08 Sep 2017 06:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-158FA2BC-0E92-41D9-95D8-F87693721718 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Nabeel Cocker X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:47:30 -0400 Cc: "bier@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8F4AC90F-5A9D-4941-BE4E-644537787BC8@nuagenetworks.net> References: To: gjshep@gmail.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-eckert-bier-te-arch X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 13:47:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail-158FA2BC-0E92-41D9-95D8-F87693721718 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support Regards, Nabeel > On Aug 1, 2017, at 10:02 PM, Greg Shepherd wrote: >=20 > We had solid support in the room in Prague to adopt this work. So let's ge= t a vote from the list. Please read and respond for or against adopting this= as a WG document: >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-bier-te-arch/ > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-bier-te-frr/ >=20 > Cheers, > Greg > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier --Apple-Mail-158FA2BC-0E92-41D9-95D8-F87693721718 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Support

Regards,
Nabeel

On Aug 1, 2017, at 10:02 PM, Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:

We had solid support in the room in Prague to adopt this work. So let's get a vote from the list. Please read and respond for or against adopting this as a WG document:


Cheers,
Greg
_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
--Apple-Mail-158FA2BC-0E92-41D9-95D8-F87693721718-- From nobody Tue Sep 12 09:55:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31AC4133096 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:55:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BWnGm4M5mDHm for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x232.google.com (mail-io0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BDB1132403 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x232.google.com with SMTP id j141so51019745ioj.4 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:55:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=USoB/rmrvePR6ORl4HAtJOtbWKchNJjnfh13cuZSPPw=; b=S+vRI7UTn6VL8p6DdOgVTfLAHoK6+Kkv511NNN+Pe3LordTYa127m6RLxKs5hIW7Pw Hc12sWt/1PEzue5z4M5zZYyryhsd645vFgNHtEd9wN3Mkl8zPD7YRd/DkFJBPhi1phWm G/PjvZE2IscuMGxeHR9rFcxQqGfchDuYxVLa9kvydaci/mETGqEVDM1NF40smjFMOvj2 n5s/pg14LWKqAx6FlDjOfGqXVn6QWkBrbQR2X2PfYFpKADLSziPnYIzsomklcVMx1cEx XP4QkHjhFSrx30GCrscYFjlM0EXdll1J0JtZO6gu908xmDesq4GpcmtOPUTZWC73xA/W UcMA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=USoB/rmrvePR6ORl4HAtJOtbWKchNJjnfh13cuZSPPw=; b=SQHW+XuXYwvKTfT8T+qfqJ8XBmYwhVioUZrtWNyXG/9S996FsQ+QdJNzaeZnajchBB 5V+HA9xqzEqIBk1WcHN4mwHuYlFNFYrQNkb0jNozrJFd+q9Fnmw1s0mPxRdlfBZwysmy bCDNN+4Pmwts+JQki7cWB8TEixmwhFXw7+IKSdCZFcRb7qOtQVkWtrjAF3RZVD+5rr7R tfmlj/Eih5Q3eqVXRsnEQ7J4xcEdCqECHoEETMgMYPF7fmCpwQQNlJmO1z5usav/wsaW 04AXwQWCbuG9DZ6/TnRF1kZAzHtYfZavsnaWwDBvN3dkNKXxXUR6jnABrrskJTYGeXlV v4yg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUif6kZXAemRCIY6zVACjjHAKwlLtVD8dbRmchepRV0gJ1CGKuus OJsH3ZQ0zFMs3mopxIitk+0/dg5/ig== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDEGMZH1UJpmUUHqehTxADLzRnsnQeW+BhH0XhHABRrLDJqF6u8cUFsTfpdx3wZ5UaW+jUmX5b7CsYUa89yg2E= X-Received: by 10.107.7.161 with SMTP id g33mr20727378ioi.169.1505235317480; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:55:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.137.156 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com In-Reply-To: References: <7E91C246-6077-4172-A37C-C9B89AF92858@cisco.com> <7fba9717-b87d-ccd4-84b6-2e605ac0becf@juniper.net> <5617CDBE-E205-4E21-92F2-CDEFD07EDA06@cisco.com> From: Greg Shepherd Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:55:16 -0700 Message-ID: To: Tony Przygienda Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands , "BIER (bier@ietf.org)" , Pierre Pfister , "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , Eric C Rosen , "Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113eace466e0ad055900e8a3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] BitStringLengths in draft-ietf-bier-architecture-07 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 16:55:20 -0000 --001a113eace466e0ad055900e8a3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We need to move on these issues. My read from the thread is the majority of the objections to removing the text specifically stating 256bit minimum mask support, was primarily around stalling the publishing process. The others I can sum up as being concerns for ensuring interoperability. Alia has confirmed that the process will only be another two week call in parallel. We've already burned far more than that discussing it. Interoperability is a valid concern, as is "architecture should not overspecify a technology". So, I propose removing the 256 bit minimum bit length from the arch doc, and adding text that states a BIER domain/set/area must have a single mask length, and a single encapsulation. Please comment on the above. An Operational section has been approved by Benoit, who opened the discuss, and it too will be added to the arch draft. Cheers, Greg (Chairs) On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Tony Przygienda wrote= : > > > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 11:36 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands wrote: > >> Tony, >> >> > 1. As a matter of principle yes, one of my usual pony horses, >> "architecture should not overspecify a technology" and that applies here= . >> the architecture doc would be better served without that clause. >> >> Great, lets change it! >> >> > 3. Removing the restriction must not, IMO, result in a complete new WG >> LC and IESG review albeit Greg has to write a new Ops section which will >> probably make both prudent nevertheless >> >> We=E2=80=99ve been working on this architecture for a few years now, and= this >> document is the MAIN architecture for BIER. If we discovered an mistake >> before its published as RFC, lets fix it now. If WG LC and IESG will add= a >> 4 month delay, who cares? >> >> > OK, I go along with your arguments. > > Alia, how much of LC do we have to rerun after the section is removed fro= m > arch + ops added & section is added to encaps doc? > > But do not forget the 2) ! > > --- tony > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > --001a113eace466e0ad055900e8a3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We need to move on these issues. My read from the thread i= s the majority of the objections to removing the text specifically stating = 256bit minimum mask support, was primarily around stalling the publishing p= rocess. The others I can sum up as being concerns for ensuring interoperabi= lity.=C2=A0

Alia has confirmed that the process will onl= y be another two week call in parallel. We've already burned far more t= han that discussing it.

Interoperability is a vali= d concern, as is=C2=A0"= ar= chitecture=C2=A0shoul= d not overspecify a technology".
So, I propose removing the 256 bit=C2=A0minimum = bit length from the arch doc, and adding text that states a BIER domain/set= /area must have a single=C2=A0mask=C2=A0length, and a single encapsulation.=

Please comment on the above.
An Operational s= ection has been approved by Benoit, who opened the discuss, and it too will= be added to the arch draft.

Cheers,
Greg
(Chairs)

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@= gmail.com> wrote:


On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 11:36 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands <ice@cisco.c= om> wrote:
Tony,

> 1. As a matter of principle yes, one of my usual pony horses, "ar= chitecture should not overspecify a technology" and that applies here.= the architecture doc would be better served without that clause.

Great, lets change it!

> 3. Removing the restriction must not, IMO, result in a complete new WG= LC and IESG review albeit Greg has to write a new Ops section which will p= robably make both prudent nevertheless

We=E2=80=99ve been working on this architecture for a few years now,= and this document is the MAIN architecture for BIER. If we discovered an m= istake before its published as RFC, lets fix it now. If WG LC and IESG will= add a 4 month delay, who cares?


=
OK, I go along with your arguments.=C2=A0

Ali= a, how much of LC do we have to rerun after the section is removed from arc= h + ops added & section is added to encaps doc?

But do not forget the 2) !

--- tony=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier


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My primary concern is the introduction of last minute changes (after the reviews have been done) that might introduce mistakes, might be poorly thought out, or might have  unintended side-effects.   After all, no one is going to do the sort of review that determines whether a mistake has been added or an inconsistency introduced. Greg> We need to move on these issues. Generally if one is concerned about moving a document quickly, one doesn't propose last minute changes that are not necessary. Greg> So, I propose removing the 256 bit minimum bit length from the arch doc, and adding text that states a BIER domain/set/area must have a single mask length, and a single encapsulation. There is already extensive material (e.g., section 6.10) about handling the case where a BIER domain is using more than one BSL. This is necessary, at the very least, to handle the scenario where one is transitioning from one BSL to another.  This is not material that we can just strike out at the last minute.  There would also need to be some changes to section 3. I see no grounds for adding a requirement that a BIER domain support only a single encapsulation. Assuming the WG wants to make a change here (which I think is unwise), I would propose the following. Section 3 has the following two paragraphs: Every BFIR MUST be capable of being provisioned with an Imposition   BitStringLength of 256.  Every BFR and BFER MUST be capable of being   provisioned with a Disposition BitStringLength of 256.   Particular BIER encapsulation types MAY allow other BitStringLengths   to be OPTIONALLY supported.  For example, when using either of the   encapsulations specified in [MPLS_BIER_ENCAPS], a BFR may be capable   of being provisioned to use any or all of the following   BitStringLengths as Imposition BitStringLengths and as Disposition   BitStringLengths: 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, and 4096. We could replace that with the following: When a BIER encapsulation is specified, the specification MUST define a  default BitStringLength for the encapsulation.  Every BFIR supporting  that encapsulation MUST be capable of being provisioned with that default  BitStringLength as its Imposition BitStringLength.  Every BFR and BFER  supporting that encapsulation MUST be capable of being provisioned with  that default BitStringLength as a Disposition BitStringLength.  The specification of a BIER encapsulation MAY also allow other BitStringLengths. We'd also have to add something near the beginning of section 6.10 ("Use of Different BitStringLengths within a Domain") saying that the procedures of that section apply only when the same encapsulation is used throughout the domain, and that a discussion of the use of "multiple encapsulations AND multiple BitStringLengths" in a single domain is outside the scope of the document. Section 6.10.1 defines a "Fallback Disposition BitStringLength" (F) and says: It is RECOMMENDED that the value of F be 256. We would need to change that to something like: It is RECOMMENDED that the value of F be the default BitStringLength for the encapsulation being used. But I really think we'd be better served leaving everything as is, given that the material is complex and was discussed and agreed upon some time ago.  Then if someone proposes an encapsulation that can't handle 256 bits, the authors of that proposal can be tasked with taking the time to figure out just what in the architecture has to change.  If Greg's suggestion is really that we reopen the discussion that led to section 6.10, I would say that is certainly inappropriate at this stage in the life cycle of the document. From nobody Tue Sep 12 13:20:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C371330C9 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:20:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J5dUA88k7Psj for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x235.google.com (mail-it0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 382201330CA for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x235.google.com with SMTP id r131so1297239itc.1 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:20:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=ieFKvWzXWX8vEcxZmzk/4nCVAnktTlVmiDHXoU1CFQM=; b=WFIMlMBvCEfZFTdOP/dyc4Me83tdVrrSTwDP1D4M55raYnwc2PE3ABpKXz57O+sne6 rniO+7kQD5tPSpC9XdHavXB+uf7P9xEOrSiHIj6Ee67WQIBAq+aoGSvBv7a16kFJ6lo1 aBWKLHYhxmoldBD4RZHLqghPZT1HwwwPTKB1QtMKSQ3VmB89+8G1MjbjV4XJnV2e0eyd 4/uHY4QCiftbdm9rbMT5cexUqH653wADTxCAiJEfXeUKAGhx9WXY4zK13mBKriQG9DCK S9Ydd+yrHyXdRYjJnk8tGgcDbxUGZss34sPmRdGYhZ/TJWexohr7TWUx3W5ye99gbKl7 /+zg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ieFKvWzXWX8vEcxZmzk/4nCVAnktTlVmiDHXoU1CFQM=; b=l79ru/yNZXtqWdJlV9PLDDug2HLERAiK0+7ypEaZffEmb4pv2TjwnNjyGKo5IRKK6s umdiRtYQtKkpw+XzmYA4ZDqLv2uGUSejoCHILthyG9BqX9K25CDtYKflOwtdWM08PSvC pMkcS+bILSWDdB2rb0h2mEs0nKJTsMbjyDNzdLyQTcJDovwytvrAhXT5wpKIDgokYmH0 rL2bklo9XEtYjEr1ZLi0jq0A/e8yqjOJyIUw9yItyUWD/Cc6Y03S+S8Fnatp68FnRGsD fNjITJnlOtOEikBCYxgREWbzPVRC9Jjl/DJmzV/fwb14A5FBWXAC4k5Vn4byuCZ9NJxZ mlVQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiGYa2ghUxuFx6Lju0Z9mnIYu4iWFLTo43z2A3OpZGyEp+jj56p jpZ2pFy3yXxFMywKelwppMW42RSvLi6O538chuU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBVGNgaOTQ8mv8cL63fxk1c1n3WkVB+6EGJUKPLEP2AXhnc+nXKo661R5a2sgf1/MoCGZbGozK311ceRepJKeE= X-Received: by 10.36.83.20 with SMTP id n20mr1451374itb.120.1505247631580; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:20:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.137.156 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <4dcaff76-8faa-4733-992d-ddf4d575f6bd@juniper.net> References: <7E91C246-6077-4172-A37C-C9B89AF92858@cisco.com> <7fba9717-b87d-ccd4-84b6-2e605ac0becf@juniper.net> <5617CDBE-E205-4E21-92F2-CDEFD07EDA06@cisco.com> <4dcaff76-8faa-4733-992d-ddf4d575f6bd@juniper.net> From: Greg Shepherd Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:20:30 -0700 Message-ID: To: Eric C Rosen Cc: Tony Przygienda , IJsbrand Wijnands , "BIER (bier@ietf.org)" , Pierre Pfister , "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , "Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114195e261246b055903c624" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] BitStringLengths in draft-ietf-bier-architecture-07 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 20:20:34 -0000 --001a114195e261246b055903c624 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Eric C Rosen wrote: > Greg> My read from the thread is the majority of the objections to > removing the text specifically stating 256bit minimum mask support, was > primarily around stalling the publishing process. > > My primary concern is the introduction of last minute changes (after the > reviews have been done) that might introduce mistakes, might be poorly > thought out, or might have unintended side-effects. After all, no one is > going to do the sort of review that determines whether a mistake has been > added or an inconsistency introduced. > It's a paragraph at most. You underestimate the WG. :) > Greg> We need to move on these issues. > > Generally if one is concerned about moving a document quickly, one doesn't > propose last minute changes that are not necessary. > Generally, there is more than one concern that drives decisions. > Greg> So, I propose removing the 256 bit minimum bit length from the arch > doc, and adding text that states a BIER domain/set/area must have a single > mask length, and a single encapsulation. > > There is already extensive material (e.g., section 6.10) about handling > the case where a BIER domain is using more than one BSL. This is necessary, > at the very least, to handle the scenario where one is transitioning from > one BSL to another. This is not material that we can just strike out at > the last minute. There would also need to be some changes to section 3. > Nobody is proposing striking the entire text of this section. The proposal is just to remove the restriction of 256bit minimum length. > I see no grounds for adding a requirement that a BIER domain support only > a single encapsulation. > Neither do I. Thanks for your input. > Assuming the WG wants to make a change here (which I think is unwise), I > would propose the following. > > Section 3 has the following two paragraphs: > > Every BFIR MUST be capable of being provisioned with an Imposition > BitStringLength of 256. Every BFR and BFER MUST be capable of being > provisioned with a Disposition BitStringLength of 256. > > Particular BIER encapsulation types MAY allow other BitStringLengths > to be OPTIONALLY supported. For example, when using either of the > encapsulations specified in [MPLS_BIER_ENCAPS], a BFR may be capable > of being provisioned to use any or all of the following > BitStringLengths as Imposition BitStringLengths and as Disposition > BitStringLengths: 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, and 4096. > > We could replace that with the following: > > When a BIER encapsulation is specified, the specification MUST define a > default BitStringLength for the encapsulation. Every BFIR supporting > that encapsulation MUST be capable of being provisioned with that default > BitStringLength as its Imposition BitStringLength. Every BFR and BFER > supporting that encapsulation MUST be capable of being provisioned with > that default BitStringLength as a Disposition BitStringLength. > > The specification of a BIER encapsulation MAY also allow other > BitStringLengths. > That looks great, thanks. > We'd also have to add something near the beginning of section 6.10 ("Use > of Different BitStringLengths within a Domain") saying that the procedures > of that section apply only when the same encapsulation is used throughout > the domain, and that a discussion of the use of "multiple encapsulations > AND multiple BitStringLengths" in a single domain is outside the scope of > the document. > > Section 6.10.1 defines a "Fallback Disposition BitStringLength" (F) and > says: > > It is RECOMMENDED that the value of F be 256. > > We would need to change that to something like: > > It is RECOMMENDED that the value of F be the default BitStringLength for > the encapsulation being used. > Also looks great, thanks. > But I really think we'd be better served leaving everything as is, given > that the material is complex and was discussed and agreed upon some time > ago. Then if someone proposes an encapsulation that can't handle 256 bits, > the authors of that proposal can be tasked with taking the time to figure > out just what in the architecture has to change. If Greg's suggestion is > really that we reopen the discussion that led to section 6.10, I would say > that is certainly inappropriate at this stage in the life cycle of the > document. > Your objection is noted, again. Thanks, Greg --001a114195e261246b055903c624 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@ju= niper.net> wrote:
Greg> My read from the thre= ad is the majority of the objections to removing the text specifically stat= ing 256bit minimum mask support, was primarily around stalling the publishi= ng process.

My primary concern is the introduction of last minute changes (after the re= views have been done) that might introduce mistakes, might be poorly though= t out, or might have=C2=A0 unintended side-effects.=C2=A0=C2=A0 After all, = no one is going to do the sort of review that determines whether a mistake = has been added or an inconsistency introduced.

It's a paragraph at most. You underestimate the WG. :)
=C2=A0
Greg> We need to move on these issues.

Generally if one is concerned about moving a document quickly, one doesn= 9;t propose last minute changes that are not necessary.

Generally, there is more than one concern that drives deci= sions.
=C2=A0
Greg> So, I propose removing the 256 bit minimum bit length from the arc= h doc, and adding text that states a BIER domain/set/area must have a singl= e mask length, and a single encapsulation.

There is already extensive material (e.g., section 6.10) about handling the= case where a BIER domain is using more than one BSL. This is necessary, at= the very least, to handle the scenario where one is transitioning from one= BSL to another.=C2=A0 This is not material that we can just strike out at = the last minute.=C2=A0 There would also need to be some changes to section = 3.

Nobody is proposing striking the ent= ire text of this section. The proposal is just to remove the restriction of= 256bit minimum length.
=C2=A0
Assuming the WG wants to make a change here (which I think is unwise), I wo= uld propose the following.

Section 3 has the following two paragraphs:

Every BFIR MUST be capable of being provisioned with an Imposition
=C2=A0 BitStringLength of 256.=C2=A0 Every BFR and BFER MUST be capable of = being
=C2=A0 provisioned with a Disposition BitStringLength of 256.

 =C2=A0 Particular BIER encapsulation types MAY allow other BitStringLengths=
=C2=A0 to be OPTIONALLY supported.=C2=A0 For example, when using either of = the
=C2=A0 encapsulations specified in [MPLS_BIER_ENCAPS], a BFR may be capable=
=C2=A0 of being provisioned to use any or all of the following
=C2=A0 BitStringLengths as Imposition BitStringLengths and as Disposition =C2=A0 BitStringLengths: 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, and 4096.

We could replace that with the following:

When a BIER encapsulation is specified, the specification MUST define a
=C2=A0default BitStringLength for the encapsulation.=C2=A0 Every BFIR suppo= rting
=C2=A0that encapsulation MUST be capable of being provisioned with that def= ault
=C2=A0BitStringLength as its Imposition BitStringLength.=C2=A0 Every BFR an= d BFER
=C2=A0supporting that encapsulation MUST be capable of being provisioned wi= th
=C2=A0that default BitStringLength as a Disposition BitStringLength.

=C2=A0The specification of a BIER encapsulation MAY also allow other BitStr= ingLengths.

That looks great, thanks.
=C2=A0
We'd also have to add something near the beginning of section 6.10 (&qu= ot;Use of Different BitStringLengths within a Domain") saying that the= procedures of that section apply only when the same encapsulation is used = throughout the domain, and that a discussion of the use of "multiple e= ncapsulations AND multiple BitStringLengths" in a single domain is out= side the scope of the document.

Section 6.10.1 defines a "Fallback Disposition BitStringLength" (= F) and says:

It is RECOMMENDED that the value of F be 256.

We would need to change that to something like:

It is RECOMMENDED that the value of F be the default BitStringLength for th= e encapsulation being used.

Also looks = great, thanks.
=C2=A0
But I really think we'd be better served leaving everything as is, give= n that the material is complex and was discussed and agreed upon some time = ago.=C2=A0 Then if someone proposes an encapsulation that can't handle = 256 bits, the authors of that proposal can be tasked with taking the time t= o figure out just what in the architecture has to change.=C2=A0 If Greg'= ;s suggestion is really that we reopen the discussion that led to section 6= .10, I would say that is certainly inappropriate at this stage in the life = cycle of the document.

Your objection i= s noted, again.

Thanks,
Greg=C2=A0
=

--001a114195e261246b055903c624-- From nobody Wed Sep 13 07:46:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E90F13208E; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 07:46:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.61.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150531401800.30434.5889113060953350849@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 07:46:58 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 14:46:58 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : Multicast using Bit Index Explicit Replication Authors : IJsbrand Wijnands Eric C. Rosen Andrew Dolganow Tony Przygienda Sam K Aldrin Filename : draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08.txt Pages : 40 Date : 2017-09-13 Abstract: This document specifies a new architecture for the forwarding of multicast data packets. It provides optimal forwarding of multicast packets through a "multicast domain". However, it does not require a protocol for explicitly building multicast distribution trees, nor does it require intermediate nodes to maintain any per-flow state. This architecture is known as "Bit Index Explicit Replication" (BIER). When a multicast data packet enters the domain, the ingress router determines the set of egress routers to which the packet needs to be sent. The ingress router then encapsulates the packet in a BIER header. The BIER header contains a bitstring in which each bit represents exactly one egress router in the domain; to forward the packet to a given set of egress routers, the bits corresponding to those routers are set in the BIER header. The procedures for forwarding a packet based on its BIER header are specified in this document. Elimination of the per-flow state and the explicit tree- building protocols results in a considerable simplification. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Sep 13 07:48:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00C5D13305B; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 07:48:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.61.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150531410497.30539.9717247734559549195@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 07:48:24 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 14:48:25 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : Encapsulation for Bit Index Explicit Replication in MPLS and non-MPLS Networks Authors : IJsbrand Wijnands Eric C. Rosen Andrew Dolganow Jeff Tantsura Sam K Aldrin Israel Meilik Filename : draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2017-09-13 Abstract: Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that provides optimal multicast forwarding through a "multicast domain", without requiring intermediate routers to maintain any per-flow state or to engage in an explicit tree-building protocol. When a multicast data packet enters the domain, the ingress router determines the set of egress routers to which the packet needs to be sent. The ingress router then encapsulates the packet in a BIER header. The BIER header contains a bitstring in which each bit represents exactly one egress router in the domain; to forward the packet to a given set of egress routers, the bits corresponding to those routers are set in the BIER header. The details of the encapsulation depend on the type of network used to realize the multicast domain. This document specifies a BIER encapsulation that can be used in an MPLS network, or with slight differences, in a non-MPLS network. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Sep 13 07:52:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1478213305D for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 07:52:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y6OMjQBck4y2 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 07:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM03-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam03on0102.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.40.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27CA8133055 for ; 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On 9/13/2017 10:46 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. > > Title : Multicast using Bit Index Explicit Replication > Authors : IJsbrand Wijnands > Eric C. Rosen > Andrew Dolganow > Tony Przygienda > Sam K Aldrin > Filename : draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08.txt > Pages : 40 > Date : 2017-09-13 > > Abstract: > This document specifies a new architecture for the forwarding of > multicast data packets. It provides optimal forwarding of multicast > packets through a "multicast domain". However, it does not require a > protocol for explicitly building multicast distribution trees, nor > does it require intermediate nodes to maintain any per-flow state. > This architecture is known as "Bit Index Explicit Replication" > (BIER). When a multicast data packet enters the domain, the ingress > router determines the set of egress routers to which the packet needs > to be sent. The ingress router then encapsulates the packet in a > BIER header. The BIER header contains a bitstring in which each bit > represents exactly one egress router in the domain; to forward the > packet to a given set of egress routers, the bits corresponding to > those routers are set in the BIER header. The procedures for > forwarding a packet based on its BIER header are specified in this > document. Elimination of the per-flow state and the explicit tree- > building protocols results in a considerable simplification. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier From nobody Wed Sep 13 07:54:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01C9132949 for ; 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On 9/13/2017 10:48 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. > > Title : Encapsulation for Bit Index Explicit Replication in MPLS and non-MPLS Networks > Authors : IJsbrand Wijnands > Eric C. Rosen > Andrew Dolganow > Jeff Tantsura > Sam K Aldrin > Israel Meilik > Filename : draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.txt > Pages : 21 > Date : 2017-09-13 > > Abstract: > Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that > provides optimal multicast forwarding through a "multicast domain", > without requiring intermediate routers to maintain any per-flow state > or to engage in an explicit tree-building protocol. When a multicast > data packet enters the domain, the ingress router determines the set > of egress routers to which the packet needs to be sent. The ingress > router then encapsulates the packet in a BIER header. The BIER > header contains a bitstring in which each bit represents exactly one > egress router in the domain; to forward the packet to a given set of > egress routers, the bits corresponding to those routers are set in > the BIER header. The details of the encapsulation depend on the type > of network used to realize the multicast domain. This document > specifies a BIER encapsulation that can be used in an MPLS network, > or with slight differences, in a non-MPLS network. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Wed Sep 13 08:34:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 714BC132949; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:34:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benoit Claise To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-bier-architecture@ietf.org, Greg Shepherd , bier-chairs@ietf.org, gjshep@gmail.com, bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.61.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150531684245.30379.9964449565727529961.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:34:02 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:34:02 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Next point moved from DISCUSS to COMMENT after the IESG telechat: 1. I want to come back to the experimental status. I have seen Alia's reply: In the BIER Charter, work item 9 describes a document based on deployment experience that can justify moving the BIER work from Experimental to Standards Track. When I chartered the WG, it wasn't clear whether it was merely a good idea or a good idea with enough motivations towards deployment that it is worth complicating the architecture at the narrow point of the IP hourglass. >From the writeup, it seems that the experiment is successful already: The vendors are being quite tight lipped about current implementations. Operator feedback indicates there are at least two implementations currently, with others in the works. There are currently five vendors collaborating on the work in the IETF. However, I've not been following the specifications development and implementation to provide a definitive answer. At the minimum, the document needs to describe what the criteria are for a successful experiment. Implementations (RFC7942?)? two interop implementations? hardware implementation? "deployment experience" (to cite the charter text)? impact analysis? something else? The ideal BIER document for this explanation is this architecture doc. A reference to the charter Item 9 would be a good start. Examples: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7360#section-1.3 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7499#section-2 - Each BFR MUST be assigned a single "BFR-Prefix" for each sub-domain to which it belongs. A BFR's BFR-Prefix MUST be an IP address (either IPv4 or IPv6) of the BFR. It is RECOMMENDED that the BFR-prefix be a loopback address of the BFR. Just one observation. Was thinking, so it's like an (OSPF) routerId, except that it's called a prefix. Then I understood, reading further. It's not called a routerId because this address/prefix must be routable - Was wondering. Is this mechanism only for multicast packets? What about anycast/unicast? Some multicast packets would take BIER encap, while others packets would take a different encap From a troubleshooting point of view, does it make sense (is it even allowed) to send non multicast traffic over BIER. From nobody Wed Sep 13 11:14:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71FA0132D4C for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:14:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u_VMMIlE1vsr for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x236.google.com (mail-io0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F37CB1320D9 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x236.google.com with SMTP id n69so5775515ioi.5 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:14:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=4no/56Vjy6c1OHwVKtL/vaUAGVrDzHqgdJ+ICqlqWdk=; b=HCTkMN4omZ7Cawx4ci7gbY8D2gsNvz5vQ94rq88aK8Rni0WVoooSxJcp++Dk2Jaclf /aqUWMYZdkFB0lU5uOS9zl+HBX3+lmnVLHlfozbnlVXLGhTkbqt9Jads08X0yJlQ2rEn 27utNfLKYuivHWBoJFH94MB5mXTfgnKdgk+Xo9rSVDudaOTYsOCAchUR9i+x5ha+fxg9 wFsgqqvejpT0ZroRHVXUOZ+ByBqb7V+dUgGCh7jtLP9p3hz+4JdOTBIFzOz86cUHKEtl SQXF2bYlYcOLYqCnl0jv4xSHbYV288iMCBlSLT+/G8ExW7hWyfwYl/DpyFS03lkEUxc3 AUnQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=4no/56Vjy6c1OHwVKtL/vaUAGVrDzHqgdJ+ICqlqWdk=; b=Hx2KPnDHPJRWqYbhzE0HtFwJgKXu2ouCj9JBFf6XN3ewVdpc5Fm9uZU+OFU14D+U+S 8MJ1qRMKVT34/aE6q8d/qt/ph2tRViwfDFWfevidVXNB9DfwHFsmzaFLPoeoY5jaYJDJ e++WASr93azlIRF7zNT4OCWKzFdrBhUlc/yJM5TqYBJ40d9Ae3pqakS70/2uVYFhrqi7 mqcPGJELjLKWMwTE++wvexmvmeh/OHxYUr9yx0U2LzIhZvsnbhX+5wsTmwrV1dI+Rzke m/2Ik2yTqAdPS5lpMO+2gFXiMcf5oaPqMzYVbs1+GeTwFoFtFg3263JYEwmpxOAwfGG0 2uKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgJFGPKTBPc5IDKkeu68+60REQRl7Ut2t23SyRSEuQgvxJ9me3P Yga0iJn7PXwYHtntN1BI2U4G2WxYnUVVZCqtnYyh0w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDClxSIdgKQvMug2pa3t2jOKe0Db9QKjKEZ9zwj7kRRxOE5ZwVdqov2T90RrM2aT8o4j6Y2v29LicS/BDaa5J8= X-Received: by 10.107.7.161 with SMTP id g33mr26114933ioi.169.1505326487151; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:14:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.137.156 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:14:46 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com From: Greg Shepherd Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:14:46 -0700 Message-ID: To: "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113eace489ab0705591622f5" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Last Call: X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 18:14:49 -0000 --001a113eace489ab0705591622f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" WGLC timer starting for draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08.txt Removed 256bit mask minimum limit, with the intention of letting encapsulation drafts specify minimum length. Also added an Operational Consideration section. Thanks, Greg ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: DraftTracker Mail System Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 11:02 AM Subject: Last Call: To: iesg-secretary@ietf.org Cc: Greg Shepherd , akatlas@gmail.com Last Call Request has been submitted for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/ --001a113eace489ab0705591622f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WGLC timer starting for=C2=A0draft-ietf-bier-architecture-= 08.txt

Removed 256bit mask minimum limit, with the inten= tion of letting encapsulation drafts specify minimum length.

=
Also added an Operational Consideration section.

<= /div>
Thanks,
Greg
---------- F= orwarded message ----------
From: DraftTra= cker Mail System <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, Sep 13, 201= 7 at 11:02 AM
Subject: Last Call: <draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08.tx= t>
To: iesg-secretary@ietf= .org
Cc: Greg Shepherd <gjshe= p@gmail.com>, akatlas@gmail.com=



Last Call Request has been submitted for
<draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08.txt>

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/= draft-ietf-bier-architecture/

--001a113eace489ab0705591622f5-- From nobody Wed Sep 13 11:35:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F46E132932 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:35:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pUyMDBmx9In6 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x22f.google.com (mail-io0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8560713207A for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id n69so6128449ioi.5 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:35:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=E0O7I4O6dC2W2Cz4QJX2xsWJb7+3rnqX6UK81IbPw2M=; b=sq6BlwknGUPptLU5lTsHWtcqyVD0YAMQbk/s2MZJWLMvC7+HLrKaJsAfiu/qCUAlw9 uivHbiGx/gse4fqtF+QxVOSEr3O5Am1pBGIi+6nI0nrBPqj0CuJELfh7jXrsPeKulc2Y HMq8Cg0rBiKESR5nJieLUAIWlC+BbZQXEzMoT3QenGJFXr0n+JKJiy9U/OgBozgD+TSC ClfDikWllr3gr6mBlKuXpU5I7O0BZoajCW/aTtpxLGX106lknNLp7JxhidWmGblHwPoi vmsnRI+7Oi6smoglXLLhPB6qNoZEPl6UPmeRMVw2R74+bsSCwJoDj0D/wBG2Y4bV4Prs hOug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=E0O7I4O6dC2W2Cz4QJX2xsWJb7+3rnqX6UK81IbPw2M=; b=IQyDDxWjFTBRB+hm95fK9dT+0yQJXWm/ngVP+qKK9eDU5x5yjIbSUMVJ5XnUp5LvI5 VPSr0gGY+UBxWBnneFPFOFXHSEB6JHPWdJUn2ZhEjZM5Nws2iDKLUwCGr1mqi8OXH3ws B8MoJMdwJwtbmJXYu9BYf2njGLD27zm85UxrxMGTlWqzaJYmoNg6nfbW5xo80vlMsDFJ XQiR8Ysv+9N72lAJilv8lnZPIboXo0gpmE+PhrggM+TANjvii/bF1rvgiFWsv7OS0mij DJg+yJDt2Qk44MUslvKnwONJDZ5X9ltcDfa0ltpo9L6UaiwtT9+msLP5mSIYUto2PhGS S2NA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjFDSYb10MoEmtDdsErJSAxb+mkvdrPkawFqX1kxZij6q9VM+RJ MtPzRB8EdOkC1Kb3f3KZf5rlK1Swa/OeWHAfOwlnMw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAw+0+Poh1gZCgN/MkHp9SYaI5LoUNdCUx/0ohjTle7e7fp8GzJWMSZKBQB4zvyUNge7AaytR6m1+lWJcuC+Go= X-Received: by 10.107.7.161 with SMTP id g33mr26200016ioi.169.1505327714520; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:35:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.137.156 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com From: Greg Shepherd Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:35:14 -0700 Message-ID: To: "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113eace4b1d4ad0559166bd4" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Document Shepherd needed X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 18:35:17 -0000 --001a113eace4b1d4ad0559166bd4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" We're still looking for a volunteer to shepherd draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions. It's not difficult, and doesn't take much time. It does require that you read the draft. :) The process is just answering a series of questions into a document to progress with the draft to the IESG queue. The list of questions and the shepherding process overall is documented here: https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/document-shepherds.html We'd like to get these into the publishing queue - and hopefully assigned and RFC number - before Singapore. This is a good opportunity to gain some experience with the IETF publishing process, without much pain. Thanks, Greg --001a113eace4b1d4ad0559166bd4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We're still looking for a volunteer to shepherd=C2=A0<= span style=3D"color:rgb(35,35,35);font-family:Arial;font-size:12.8000001907= 34863px">draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions. It's not difficult, and doesn't=C2=A0= take much time. It does require that you read the draft. :)
The process is just a= nswering a series of questions into a document to progress with the draft t= o the IESG queue. The list of questions and the shepherding process overall= is=C2=A0documented here:


We'd like to get= these into the publishing queue - and hopefully assigned and RFC number - = before Singapore. This is a good opportunity to gain some experience with t= he IETF publishing process, without much pain.

Tha= nks,
Greg
--001a113eace4b1d4ad0559166bd4-- From nobody Wed Sep 13 11:42:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AD6C13207A for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:42:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CDum7YtdnLa6 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B068132D4C for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.77]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1764758C4C2; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:42:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id E8431B0CB9C; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:42:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:42:20 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Eric C Rosen Cc: bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170913184220.GA20269@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <150531401800.30434.5889113060953350849@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 18:42:28 -0000 Nice, Eric. The only section which IMHO is somewhat confusing and IMHO not well enough descriptive is the new operational considerations text: "(1) BIER packet forwarding/replication is along the unicast paths to each bit position set in the packet, ensuring the encapsulated multicast packets follow the same path as unicast to each set bit in the header. (2) The BIER FIB can be derived from the unicast SPF calculated unicast FIB, or any other forwarding path calculation in or out of band. (3) Each bit will follow this unicast path from the entry point of the BIER domain to edge device with that assigned bit" I think this does not well highlight the BIER benefit for the uninitiated reader (aka: the reader who does not know how and why IP multicast in comparison sucks). It may also be misleading: How is (2) different from PIM/mLDP ? You could say the same thing about the RPF information for PIM/mLDP. And like multicast RPF, BIER FIB does not require a unicast FIB, but could also use information from a RIB, aka: YOu do not need to calculate a FIB (which often is interpreted to imply unicast packet forwarding resources) to derive the BIER FIB. (1) Is this true when ECMP is taken into consideration ? Especially given how unicast ECMP can leverage all type of unicast payload fields. Some suggested text: Most IP multicast tree building (DVMRP, PIM, mLDP - except upstream Bidir-PIM/MP2MP mLDP) makes IP multicast traffic follow the reverse direction of the paths calculated by the routing protocol used. When unicast link metrics or path policies are set up to take traffic utilization or policies such as hot-potato routing into account , the resulting routing tables can not be used for these IP multicast protocols with the expectation that the IP multicast traffic will flow along the same paths as IP unicast traffic. Instead, it will flow across the reserve direction of the best paths, which are NOT the best reverse path whenever assymmetric routes exist. This RPF problem of IP multicast makes it necessary in those situations to add routing protocol instances, topologies or SAFI (BGP) for IP multicast or otherwise account for the bandwidth used by IP multicast. None of this complexity is necessary with BIER because its forwarding is based on sender-to-receiver hop-by-hop routing table lookup - like IP unicast. Except for ECMP policies that may differ between unicast and BIER, BIER traffic for a specific bit will flow along the same path as IP unicast traffic to the BFER for that bit - when using the same routing tables for BIER and IP unicast. Wrt. to the monitoring: I would change the text as follows to be more crisp to the benefit (again pbeing more descriptive to the IP multicast problem. BIER does not have any user/application generated state such a (*,G) or (S,G) in the network. This has two important benefits: 1. Diagnostics and troubleshooting of BIER is (like for IP unicast routing and forwarding) independent of application activity. There are no (complex) (*,G), (S,G) or (S,G,RPbit-prune) states that need to be troubleshot - because they do not exist! 2. Convergence of BIER in the network is deterministic and solely depends on IP unicast convergence and the number of BFER. In classical IP multicast, traffic interruption during reconvergence is proportional to the number of (*,G)/(S,G) in the network. In BIER it is the same as IP unicast reconvergence. Operators with business criticial traffic such as IPTV or finance traffic often rely on PIM or mLDP per-(S,G) counters not only to troubleshoot tree building, but also as poor mans SLA tools for the traffic carried. With BIER, SLA dagnostics needs to use the same tools available for IP unicast, such as IPFIX. Diagnostics of BIER itself can include simple counters per neighboring BFR and/or per BFER/bit. Cheers Toerless On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 10:52:23AM -0400, Eric C Rosen wrote: > This draft > > - Adds Greg's "Operational Considerations" text > > - Allows each encapsulation to specify its own default BitStringLength > > - Contains various other little changes made as a result of the LC > and IESG reviews. > > > On 9/13/2017 10:46 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > >This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. > > > > Title : Multicast using Bit Index Explicit Replication > > Authors : IJsbrand Wijnands > > Eric C. Rosen > > Andrew Dolganow > > Tony Przygienda > > Sam K Aldrin > > Filename : draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08.txt > > Pages : 40 > > Date : 2017-09-13 > > > >Abstract: > > This document specifies a new architecture for the forwarding of > > multicast data packets. It provides optimal forwarding of multicast > > packets through a "multicast domain". However, it does not require a > > protocol for explicitly building multicast distribution trees, nor > > does it require intermediate nodes to maintain any per-flow state. > > This architecture is known as "Bit Index Explicit Replication" > > (BIER). When a multicast data packet enters the domain, the ingress > > router determines the set of egress routers to which the packet needs > > to be sent. The ingress router then encapsulates the packet in a > > BIER header. The BIER header contains a bitstring in which each bit > > represents exactly one egress router in the domain; to forward the > > packet to a given set of egress routers, the bits corresponding to > > those routers are set in the BIER header. The procedures for > > forwarding a packet based on its BIER header are specified in this > > document. Elimination of the per-flow state and the explicit tree- > > building protocols results in a considerable simplification. > > > > > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/ > > > >There are also htmlized versions available at: > >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 > > > >A diff from the previous version is available at: > >https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 > > > > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > >ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >BIER mailing list > >BIER@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier From nobody Wed Sep 13 11:49:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2532133085 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:49:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qXNUtMmrQVgN for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x234.google.com (mail-it0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB453133074 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x234.google.com with SMTP id v19so4922887ite.0 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:49:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=o7uMuFPMk2PkD9IFYrhth5dVgtvdUcqwWkGkEUu3Msk=; b=tRNxX0B7GrFIUcBAzgSQjQ7+TKwT6RI+DsFqGpmnc9Ii0idWN51Xj6kDeoQu72B+TO 8IpWTE7wJDXxBd6IHM75V1z056CdoMaUgTfKAKB1ZFPL5xsDrgXRL7XrzYq1aex2udOQ euj9IYwcETyRdrG7zN8RZ37+MnMobIIbJlZNcCVpgke80rz9krRApiCi5pJg0cdscz3k 9C0U3B5PSa/r3qoLgCZ7H46f1E3P60xNY8lf82Xg5SZxQe/YcVj+aHpDyRUD9d2ILM9v 4jKdzDNE+QCQ9i6dwRdgaa8oyfuF8Mx0jkHlqVTcBqD01+mknNi05xoYFzYmInUDq5jO AOGw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=o7uMuFPMk2PkD9IFYrhth5dVgtvdUcqwWkGkEUu3Msk=; b=dHZJaGFsvbuJhadlL6AHGkQRGAXKxaqtND1V+yo6fXd0fiSPu4p90wyU3bzsNlPCK3 m3A2TqA/YV4TMJ07ZqjH5M00/fnHPrB+H7QhVVS2mMKvpHAEUIOz16DB+Vpk7VxywxoA Nbg2Yk6wIZhJWoUuzIJ/P79IxTRMM+cBrTZWaJ2K6YO+m4JufqF4mmyV6NrCHODuq2oV J4NWG3RCZRRpH+jegWRd17tLPFSVzaVyhPOe6FX3kaJj6VPRx5IgGNharh+mn/2V8h5i BX9Z8Mkth+hXo944FsFPlpd2gZ0bZAy3F/NsqYN59JMYMRnfV60coAS2OG3HQBLod9D9 qLUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjdTDhHZIkElkwoTw0qvJMoBPH8157UZ7KLn6UaFQ5vCaxK78UP UbB7DlbtIGS1EiFH/ss4OdK8mfb60WghBIHDSbo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCiQJcrc4HeLenqFwTvj2GuZPN74KD1P6HoWaD9w7Y2//CV3bPmw4S4CBo3HLIvHP32bAVH7vUnEH2OwhAcYFw= X-Received: by 10.36.78.137 with SMTP id r131mr6098405ita.111.1505328592010; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:49:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.137.156 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20170913184220.GA20269@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <150531401800.30434.5889113060953350849@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170913184220.GA20269@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: Greg Shepherd Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:49:51 -0700 Message-ID: To: Toerless Eckert Cc: Eric C Rosen , "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11402b2affee7b0559169f17" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 18:49:56 -0000 --001a11402b2affee7b0559169f17 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Toerless, The Operational Considerations section was added at the request of one Discuss during IETF-LC. It is NOT intended to be a comprehensive piece about the benefits and/or differences of BIER over other multi-point solutions. The text has already been approved by the originator of the Discuss. Let's please not open this up into a months long discussion about what should or should not be in this section. It is an architecture draft. The value of an operations section at all in an architecture draft is debatable. If you want an extensive informational draft on the differences and benefits of BIER over IPMcast and/or MPLS please feel free to write it. Your email seems to be a good start. ;-) Greg On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Toerless Eckert wrote: > Nice, Eric. > > The only section which IMHO is somewhat confusing and IMHO not well enough > descriptive is the new operational considerations text: > > "(1) BIER packet forwarding/replication is along the unicast paths > to each bit position set in the packet, ensuring the encapsulated > multicast packets follow the same path as unicast to each set bit in > the header. (2) The BIER FIB can be derived from the unicast SPF > calculated unicast FIB, or any other forwarding path calculation in > or out of band. (3) Each bit will follow this unicast path from the > entry point of the BIER domain to edge device with that assigned bit" > > I think this does not well highlight the BIER benefit for the > uninitiated reader (aka: the reader who does not know how and why IP > multicast > in comparison sucks). It may also be misleading: > > How is (2) different from PIM/mLDP ? You could say the same thing about > the RPF information for PIM/mLDP. And like multicast RPF, BIER FIB does > not require a unicast FIB, but could also use information from a RIB, > aka: YOu do not need to calculate a FIB (which often is interpreted to > imply > unicast packet forwarding resources) to derive the BIER FIB. > > (1) Is this true when ECMP is taken into consideration ? Especially given > how > unicast ECMP can leverage all type of unicast payload fields. > > Some suggested text: > > Most IP multicast tree building (DVMRP, PIM, mLDP - except upstream > Bidir-PIM/MP2MP mLDP) > makes IP multicast traffic follow the reverse direction of the paths > calculated by the > routing protocol used. When unicast link metrics or path policies are set > up to > take traffic utilization or policies such as hot-potato routing into > account , > the resulting routing tables can not be used for these IP multicast > protocols > with the expectation that the IP multicast traffic will flow along the > same paths > as IP unicast traffic. Instead, it will flow across the reserve direction > of the > best paths, which are NOT the best reverse path whenever assymmetric > routes exist. > This RPF problem of IP multicast makes it necessary in those situations to > add > routing protocol instances, topologies or SAFI (BGP) for IP multicast or > otherwise > account for the bandwidth used by IP multicast. > > None of this complexity is necessary with BIER because its forwarding is > based > on sender-to-receiver hop-by-hop routing table lookup - like IP unicast. > Except > for ECMP policies that may differ between unicast and BIER, BIER traffic > for a > specific bit will flow along the same path as IP unicast traffic to the > BFER for > that bit - when using the same routing tables for BIER and IP unicast. > > Wrt. to the monitoring: I would change the text as follows to be more crisp > to the benefit (again pbeing more descriptive to the IP multicast problem. > > BIER does not have any user/application generated state such a (*,G) or > (S,G) > in the network. This has two important benefits: > > 1. Diagnostics and troubleshooting of BIER is (like for IP unicast routing > and forwarding) > independent of application activity. There are no (complex) (*,G), (S,G) or > (S,G,RPbit-prune) states that need to be troubleshot - because they do not > exist! > > 2. Convergence of BIER in the network is deterministic and solely depends > on IP > unicast convergence and the number of BFER. In classical IP multicast, > traffic > interruption during reconvergence is proportional to the number of > (*,G)/(S,G) > in the network. In BIER it is the same as IP unicast reconvergence. > > Operators with business criticial traffic such as IPTV or finance traffic > often > rely on PIM or mLDP per-(S,G) counters not only to troubleshoot tree > building, but > also as poor mans SLA tools for the traffic carried. With BIER, SLA > dagnostics > needs to use the same tools available for IP unicast, such as IPFIX. > Diagnostics > of BIER itself can include simple counters per neighboring BFR and/or per > BFER/bit. > > Cheers > Toerless > > On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 10:52:23AM -0400, Eric C Rosen wrote: > > This draft > > > > - Adds Greg's "Operational Considerations" text > > > > - Allows each encapsulation to specify its own default BitStringLength > > > > - Contains various other little changes made as a result of the LC > > and IESG reviews. > > > > > > On 9/13/2017 10:46 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > >This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of > the IETF. > > > > > > Title : Multicast using Bit Index Explicit > Replication > > > Authors : IJsbrand Wijnands > > > Eric C. Rosen > > > Andrew Dolganow > > > Tony Przygienda > > > Sam K Aldrin > > > Filename : draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08.txt > > > Pages : 40 > > > Date : 2017-09-13 > > > > > >Abstract: > > > This document specifies a new architecture for the forwarding of > > > multicast data packets. It provides optimal forwarding of multicast > > > packets through a "multicast domain". However, it does not require > a > > > protocol for explicitly building multicast distribution trees, nor > > > does it require intermediate nodes to maintain any per-flow state. > > > This architecture is known as "Bit Index Explicit Replication" > > > (BIER). When a multicast data packet enters the domain, the ingress > > > router determines the set of egress routers to which the packet > needs > > > to be sent. The ingress router then encapsulates the packet in a > > > BIER header. The BIER header contains a bitstring in which each bit > > > represents exactly one egress router in the domain; to forward the > > > packet to a given set of egress routers, the bits corresponding to > > > those routers are set in the BIER header. The procedures for > > > forwarding a packet based on its BIER header are specified in this > > > document. Elimination of the per-flow state and the explicit tree- > > > building protocols results in a considerable simplification. > > > > > > > > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/ > > > > > >There are also htmlized versions available at: > > >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 > > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 > > > > > >A diff from the previous version is available at: > > >https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 > > > > > > > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > > >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > >ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >BIER mailing list > > >BIER@ietf.org > > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > --001a11402b2affee7b0559169f17 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Toerless,

The Operational Consideration= s section was added at the request of one Discuss during IETF-LC. It is NOT= intended to be a comprehensive piece about the benefits and/or differences= of BIER over other multi-point solutions. The text has already been approv= ed by the originator of the Discuss. Let's please not open this up into= a months long discussion about what should or should not be in this sectio= n. It is an architecture draft. The value of an operations section at all i= n an architecture draft is debatable.

If you want = an extensive informational draft on the differences and benefits of BIER ov= er IPMcast and/or MPLS please feel free to write it. Your email seems to be= a good start. ;-)

Greg

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM= , Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
Nice, Eric.

The only section which IMHO is somewhat confusing and IMHO not well enough<= br> descriptive is the new operational considerations text:

"(1) BIER packet forwarding/replication is along the unicast paths
=C2=A0to each bit position set in the packet, ensuring the encapsulated
=C2=A0multicast packets follow the same path as unicast to each set bit in<= br> =C2=A0the header. (2) The BIER FIB can be derived from the unicast SPF
=C2=A0calculated unicast FIB, or any other forwarding path calculation in =C2=A0or out of band. (3) Each bit will follow this unicast path from the =C2=A0entry point of the BIER domain to edge device with that assigned bit&= quot;

I think this does not well highlight the BIER benefit for the
uninitiated reader (aka: the reader who does not know how and why IP multic= ast
in comparison sucks). It may also be misleading:

How is (2) different from PIM/mLDP ? You could say the same thing about
the RPF information for PIM/mLDP. And like multicast RPF, BIER FIB does
not require a unicast FIB, but could also use information from a RIB,
aka: YOu do not need to calculate a FIB (which often is interpreted to impl= y
unicast packet forwarding resources) to derive the BIER FIB.

(1) Is this true when ECMP is taken into consideration ? Especially given h= ow
unicast ECMP can leverage all type of unicast payload fields.

Some suggested text:

Most IP multicast tree building (DVMRP, PIM, mLDP - except upstream Bidir-P= IM/MP2MP mLDP)
makes IP multicast traffic follow the reverse direction of the paths calcul= ated by the
routing protocol used. When unicast link metrics or path policies are set u= p to
take traffic utilization or policies such as hot-potato routing into accoun= t ,
the resulting routing tables can not be used for these IP multicast protoco= ls
with the expectation that the IP multicast traffic will flow along the same= paths
as IP unicast traffic. Instead, it will flow across the reserve direction o= f the
best paths, which are NOT the best reverse path whenever assymmetric routes= exist.
This RPF problem of IP multicast makes it necessary in those situations to = add
routing protocol instances, topologies or SAFI=C2=A0 (BGP) for IP multicast= or otherwise
account for the bandwidth used by IP multicast.

None of this complexity is necessary with BIER because its forwarding is ba= sed
on sender-to-receiver hop-by-hop routing table lookup - like IP unicast. Ex= cept
for ECMP policies that may differ between unicast and BIER, BIER traffic fo= r a
specific bit will flow along the same path as IP unicast traffic to the BFE= R for
that bit - when using the same routing tables for BIER and IP unicast.

Wrt. to the monitoring: I would change the text as follows to be more crisp=
to the benefit (again pbeing more descriptive to the IP multicast problem.<= br>
BIER does not have any user/application generated state such a (*,G) or (S,= G)
in the network. This has two important benefits:

1. Diagnostics and troubleshooting of BIER is (like for IP unicast routing = and forwarding)
independent of application activity. There are no (complex) (*,G), (S,G) or=
(S,G,RPbit-prune) states that need to be troubleshot - because they do not = exist!

2. Convergence of BIER in the network is deterministic and solely depends o= n IP
unicast convergence and the number of BFER. In classical IP multicast, traf= fic
interruption during reconvergence is proportional to the number of (*,G)/(S= ,G)
in the network. In BIER it is the same as IP unicast reconvergence.

Operators with business criticial traffic such as IPTV or finance traffic o= ften
rely on PIM or mLDP per-(S,G) counters not only to troubleshoot tree buildi= ng, but
also as poor mans SLA tools for the traffic carried. With BIER, SLA dagnost= ics
needs to use the same tools available for IP unicast, such as IPFIX. Diagno= stics
of BIER itself can include simple counters per neighboring BFR and/or per B= FER/bit.

Cheers
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Toerless

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 10:52:23AM -0400, Eric C Rosen wrote:
> This draft
>
> - Adds Greg's "Operational Considerations" text
>
> - Allows each encapsulation to specify its own default BitStringLength=
>
> - Contains various other little changes made as a result of the LC
> and IESG reviews.
>
>
> On 9/13/2017 10:46 AM, int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts= directories.
> >This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication = WG of the IETF.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Multicast using Bit Index Explicit Replication
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: IJsbrand Wijnands
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Eric C. Rosen
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Andrew Dolganow
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tony Przygienda
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sam K Aldrin
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-ie= tf-bier-architecture-08.txt
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= : 40
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = : 2017-09-13
> >
> >Abstract:
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document specifies a new architecture for the f= orwarding of
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 multicast data packets.=C2=A0 It provides optimal fo= rwarding of multicast
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packets through a "multicast domain".=C2= =A0 However, it does not require a
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 protocol for explicitly building multicast distribut= ion trees, nor
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 does it require intermediate nodes to maintain any p= er-flow state.
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This architecture is known as "Bit Index Explic= it Replication"
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (BIER).=C2=A0 When a multicast data packet enters th= e domain, the ingress
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 router determines the set of egress routers to which= the packet needs
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to be sent.=C2=A0 The ingress router then encapsulat= es the packet in a
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 BIER header.=C2=A0 The BIER header contains a bitstr= ing in which each bit
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 represents exactly one egress router in the domain; = to forward the
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet to a given set of egress routers, the bits co= rresponding to
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 those routers are set in the BIER header.=C2=A0 The = procedures for
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 forwarding a packet based on its BIER header are spe= cified in this
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document.=C2=A0 Elimination of the per-flow state an= d the explicit tree-
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 building protocols results in a considerable simplif= ication.
> >
> >
> >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> >https://datatracker.ietf.org/= doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/
> >
> >There are also htmlized versions available at:
> >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08
> >https://datatracker.ie= tf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08
> >
> >A diff from the previous version is available at:
> >https://www.ietf.org/rfc= diff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bier-architecture-08
> >
> >
> >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission
> >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >
> >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> >ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >BIER mailing list
> >BIER@ietf.org
> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier

--001a11402b2affee7b0559169f17-- From nobody Wed Sep 13 12:15:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B51C132D6D; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:15:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.61.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: Greg Shepherd , gjshep@gmail.com, bier@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bier-architecture@ietf.org, akatlas@gmail.com, bier-chairs@ietf.org Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <150533015232.30425.9002000720350975329.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:15:52 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Last Call: (Multicast using Bit Index Explicit Replication) to Experimental RFC X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 19:15:52 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG (bier) to consider the following document: - 'Multicast using Bit Index Explicit Replication' as Experimental RFC This Last Call is on the technical changes between draft-ietf-bier-architecture-07 and draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08. Specifically, this is specifying that each encapsulation should specify its own default bitStringLength. The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-09-20. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document specifies a new architecture for the forwarding of multicast data packets. It provides optimal forwarding of multicast packets through a "multicast domain". However, it does not require a protocol for explicitly building multicast distribution trees, nor does it require intermediate nodes to maintain any per-flow state. This architecture is known as "Bit Index Explicit Replication" (BIER). When a multicast data packet enters the domain, the ingress router determines the set of egress routers to which the packet needs to be sent. The ingress router then encapsulates the packet in a BIER header. The BIER header contains a bitstring in which each bit represents exactly one egress router in the domain; to forward the packet to a given set of egress routers, the bits corresponding to those routers are set in the BIER header. The procedures for forwarding a packet based on its BIER header are specified in this document. Elimination of the per-flow state and the explicit tree- building protocols results in a considerable simplification. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/ballot/ The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2624/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2439/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2986/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2987/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2447/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2512/ From nobody Thu Sep 14 02:07:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00BC9132981 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 02:07:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.439 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.439 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.26, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FMZnUJ9I0LLR for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 02:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com (mail-wm0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24813132705 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 02:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id i189so8383275wmf.1 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 02:07:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=p8xXyEzynK0/LIbVou2e1W2+773XDdeE0IqlWGY2kyc=; b=YeLBU6+7SPZb5k17+09Iunv1mhx9km7XnMgOl/3d6w0b+/0PaPE9/epPfywT0sF6wV 030pkI/HCyaNHn6l79K0YYKcSzK3/NZRdHXaxFEJoVGMiPqyc58db/cqt5x34J5iAZrv FJ5U5OkhDVOG11KNTMLdfoJEvTGS1F8e8zuLtyu215gqxeH7eqjeEeiq+66dvmcVUKjY 7w3wHkLie0I1OPGFRQ6xeY3fDwwPUv1jh53b33VOij0Plfj17HCrcN7IhIl7oqKlI67q JhC137/7U4xkBr80W7RKScYsytCBSvTbIGMXt5HdX+z0bfcxoSZBeOGY+420eJ8gGAHL vh+g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=p8xXyEzynK0/LIbVou2e1W2+773XDdeE0IqlWGY2kyc=; b=dIXGrtSJzrHP7Sh3BuOrGE+iEhOO0VfiW4rvWAKWoRpCWYUhVGv/b12c5WBie61Zdo ZK8uNywH84u9SZ9LsctD3p/mLyTZap62h4yzryNXP/Y9mJcAaq0PYImZ2ImRsyrismM4 1K9DfRZ8RS516i3ZXas7vTj1ObkS0MDubl9yaBWpFd3hHgUftZxZhaWy8Z9Ph3Pqdk/B tsMJFBYUR9e0MjlVr3+Pq8z8K3nVHd1iVh+54RCxYKXX7zl/59kKZC9duPrZOO7JeArC cVCNW6XpA952UQKuB3vCcLsdxwSyprXKmAWcAukaARPKB6tXK/gdUK3UFbgsiLh9Jybr nYyw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjGQ8bXxtGdeV5wdUA7SNrbY6oIhEYQnPyKTV2KM/1tOU6yLEHz nWE2HapWncnymXhAEG4gR+k+64P3MgFVY7jLiBOyCA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBEySXKT0IWfXXZ1d5A3zFkBI6lh7jUr6QqEpU6tZ+cOw91A9YBpij2b7FljsMOjcSo+BoUpWsnp2QDPOCvirg= X-Received: by 10.80.136.85 with SMTP id c21mr5218190edc.171.1505380052652; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 02:07:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.182.193 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 02:06:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Przygienda Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:06:52 +0200 Message-ID: To: Eric C Rosen Cc: "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c118e4a55750559229bfd" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Limited WG Last Call: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 09:07:37 -0000 --f403045c118e4a55750559229bfd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The required default BML change has been introduced based on IESG reviews of bier architecture and changes therein, IMO to the better. Since encapsulation draft is heading towards IESG review as well we start here a one week last call _on the added paragraph only_ parallel to moving it towards IESG. On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Eric C Rosen wrote: > This rev specifies 256 as the default BitStringLength for the > encapsulations defined in the draft, and references Section 3 of the > architecture draft for the definition of "default BitStringLength". > > > > On 9/13/2017 10:48 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of >> the IETF. >> >> Title : Encapsulation for Bit Index Explicit >> Replication in MPLS and non-MPLS Networks >> Authors : IJsbrand Wijnands >> Eric C. Rosen >> Andrew Dolganow >> Jeff Tantsura >> Sam K Aldrin >> Israel Meilik >> Filename : draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.txt >> Pages : 21 >> Date : 2017-09-13 >> >> Abstract: >> Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that >> provides optimal multicast forwarding through a "multicast domain", >> without requiring intermediate routers to maintain any per-flow state >> or to engage in an explicit tree-building protocol. When a multicast >> data packet enters the domain, the ingress router determines the set >> of egress routers to which the packet needs to be sent. The ingress >> router then encapsulates the packet in a BIER header. The BIER >> header contains a bitstring in which each bit represents exactly one >> egress router in the domain; to forward the packet to a given set of >> egress routers, the bits corresponding to those routers are set in >> the BIER header. The details of the encapsulation depend on the type >> of network used to realize the multicast domain. This document >> specifies a BIER encapsulation that can be used in an MPLS network, >> or with slight differences, in a non-MPLS network. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation/ >> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-e >> ncapsulation-08 >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> I-D-Announce mailing list >> I-D-Announce@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce >> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > --f403045c118e4a55750559229bfd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<chair hat>=C2=A0

The required de= fault BML change has been introduced based on IESG reviews of bier architec= ture and changes therein, IMO to the better. Since encapsulation draft is h= eading towards IESG review as well we start here a one week last call _on t= he added paragraph only_ parallel to moving it towards IESG.=C2=A0

</chair hat>

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Eric C Rosen <er= osen@juniper.net> wrote:
Th= is rev specifies 256 as the default BitStringLength for the encapsulations = defined in the draft, and references Section 3 of the architecture draft fo= r the definition of "default BitStringLength".



On 9/13/2017 10:48 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the= IETF.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0: Encapsulation for Bit Index Explicit Replication in MPLS and non-MP= LS Networks
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= : IJsbrand Wijnands
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Eric C. Rosen
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Andrew Dolganow
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jeff Tantsura
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sam K Aldrin
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Israel Meilik
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 21
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2017-09-13

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 provides optimal multicast forwarding through a "multica= st domain",
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 without requiring intermediate routers to maintain any per-fl= ow state
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 or to engage in an explicit tree-building protocol.=C2=A0 Whe= n a multicast
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 data packet enters the domain, the ingress router determines = the set
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of egress routers to which the packet needs to be sent.=C2=A0= The ingress
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 router then encapsulates the packet in a BIER header.=C2=A0 T= he BIER
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 header contains a bitstring in which each bit represents exac= tly one
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 egress router in the domain; to forward the packet to a given= set of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 egress routers, the bits corresponding to those routers are s= et in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the BIER header.=C2=A0 The details of the encapsulation depen= d on the type
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of network used to realize the multicast domain.=C2=A0 This d= ocument
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 specifies a BIER encapsulation that can be used in an MPLS ne= twork,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 or with slight differences, in a non-MPLS network.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr= aft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08
https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdif= f?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
I-D-Announce@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-ann= ounce
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html<= br> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier

--f403045c118e4a55750559229bfd-- From nobody Tue Sep 19 09:42:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77AC5134286; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:42:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dan Romascanu To: Cc: bier@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bier-architecture.all@ietf.org, dromasca@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.62.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150583936645.11787.3653434949933737592@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:42:46 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 16:42:46 -0000 Reviewer: Dan Romascanu Review result: Ready I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 Reviewer: Dan Romascanu Review Date: 2017-09-19 IETF LC End Date: 2017-09-20 IESG Telechat date: 2017-09-28 Summary: This document is Ready. I have reviewed the previous version (07) and the resulting discussions with the authors and the edits for the current version (08) addressed most of the issues raised in the previous review. One single issue remains open, it is minor, and concerns more the charter scope. However, as it is related to the Experimental status of the document, I am mentioning it again. I do not believe it was clarified in the revision or the discussions. Major issues: Minor issues: 1. As the document is targeting 'Experimental' it would be useful to mention what is the scope of the experiment. The charter actually says: ' The scope of the experiment will be documented in the output of the Working Group.' Would not the Architecture document be the right place for this? If not, is there another document that deals or is planned to define the scope of the experiment? Nits/editorial comments: From nobody Tue Sep 19 09:46:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6805D12895E; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:46:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RWloRMq8ZcgN; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x232.google.com (mail-wr0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 307E41331C1; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x232.google.com with SMTP id l39so148570wrl.12; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:46:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=pmk3swYPWjsudG1z+OLB2vlgtAinCrYg6pD62qod39E=; b=FZkYArILZ7DskZTFEx3uA3otadM+R2pNEe8ZLjgYPhad2HoZW/J/qAAdeRM1f11JpD zo2gHeSvlICFAEwfcPQJlS8URs0iAdE+oWXx4bNsNBeBn0RCoAUOv8U9cBVI0M+Ago6J jydU4I5X6RmomZpNBd1hq9VgCJAwMVq0Q6HCekegDWywrIAM32KFPs+poiHDGo7K6XNj ZVycafU8DEvQgDM6yyyBV7ZXFchSJiJTMP4N5L+34fmwBPf6F9MYwD0BcnySMeUwPxem 3m8COc3yICFxSMN7Z9NZZ2AvA8tPVwY9eE3bBNt7bez3NPAoTNlJS6q650YpgGga3kKk lFdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pmk3swYPWjsudG1z+OLB2vlgtAinCrYg6pD62qod39E=; b=CG+Hfk6oHMO/8SKBgd97DrxbFzGScfWiup3qUVpZ/JlVxVPCXGvKWrInnf0ywGXQmm hgQzfnpdvpy3WlhN7S1zGkQbtFQODG6cDtmXhL546GuKN4OxMoq+5Rxa4v9ZYLU7ggr6 2jXHm2rTkVf0O0w7wqMsV/Rn6LFJoL9Td1RuKay2hAlyG05W8gm3EQIWTkBTcwu1aEkT mWOX67bps2it4OQC8dAKmwpGW6JUZazWm2RKoHO4E3yJ6FFQFuTBVDwYMzVgygcbOu6N uQjaXUjUtAdbWGa1aIZUAvED7MQ1NtdJ45PRI8X6VpKI2Y8iNHC1cC+L3CQmzns3qBZh LiCw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjXnAmeSNLrXZprvlR1aWVRdTuBV2H1Hobj8pNTk0ctO2QHmgei 4pW+1eZTQHpS3TMUQbUg1NwjJWHEvXiph1Y7kYU9YA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QA9/mtIFdIp2pd4/I9iYbyMADIlJr7Dram3cfndPnQP3LhSaq43GTk+KLwc7mAjvlCE4dG/k/tppRWAIhuhG9k= X-Received: by 10.223.169.51 with SMTP id u48mr2010278wrc.270.1505839589502; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:46:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.136.153 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:46:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <150583936645.11787.3653434949933737592@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <150583936645.11787.3653434949933737592@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Alia Atlas Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 12:46:28 -0400 Message-ID: To: Dan Romascanu Cc: "gen-art@ietf.org" , "bier@ietf.org" , IETF Discussion Mailing List , draft-ietf-bier-architecture.all@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045cf4dad248e005598d99c1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 16:46:36 -0000 --f403045cf4dad248e005598d99c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Dan, On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Dan Romascanu wrote: > Reviewer: Dan Romascanu > Review result: Ready > > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just > like any other last call comments. > > For more information, please see the FAQ at > > . > > Document: draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 > Reviewer: Dan Romascanu > Review Date: 2017-09-19 > IETF LC End Date: 2017-09-20 > IESG Telechat date: 2017-09-28 > > Summary: > > This document is Ready. I have reviewed the previous version (07) and the > resulting discussions with the authors and the edits for the current > version > (08) addressed most of the issues raised in the previous review. One single > issue remains open, it is minor, and concerns more the charter scope. > However, > as it is related to the Experimental status of the document, I am > mentioning it > again. I do not believe it was clarified in the revision or the > discussions. > > Major issues: > > Minor issues: > > 1. As the document is targeting 'Experimental' it would be useful to > mention > what is the scope of the experiment. The charter actually says: > > ' The scope of the experiment will be > documented in the output of the Working Group.' > > Would not the Architecture document be the right place for this? If not, is > there another document that deals or is planned to define the scope of the > experiment? > Thanks for the review! The charter has an item (#9, I believe) for describing the results to progress to standards track. Regards, Alia --f403045cf4dad248e005598d99c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dan,

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Dan Romascanu &l= t;dromasca@gmail.co= m> wrote:
Reviewer: Dan Rom= ascanu
Review result: Ready

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.=C2=A0 Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at

<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq<= /a>>.

Document: draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08
Reviewer: Dan Romascanu
Review Date: 2017-09-19
IETF LC End Date: 2017-09-20
IESG Telechat date: 2017-09-28

Summary:

This document is Ready. I have reviewed the previous version (07) and the resulting discussions with the authors and the edits for the current versio= n
(08) addressed most of the issues raised in the previous review. One single=
issue remains open, it is minor, and concerns more the charter scope. Howev= er,
as it is related to the Experimental status of the document, I am mentionin= g it
again. I do not believe it was clarified in the revision or the discussions= .

Major issues:

Minor issues:

1. As the document is targeting 'Experimental' it would be useful t= o mention
what is the scope of the experiment. The charter actually says:

' The scope of the experiment will be
documented in the output of the Working Group.'

Would not the Architecture document be the right place for this? If not, is=
there another document that deals or is planned to define the scope of the<= br> experiment?


--f403045cf4dad248e005598d99c1-- From nobody Tue Sep 19 09:56:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63629134296; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:56:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rz7ThZGdqrbK; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x235.google.com (mail-qk0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58D70134295; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x235.google.com with SMTP id b23so256989qkg.1; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:56:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=c9mDwRqmvwuAdaD1EkGhf+khyehDFl3+dlvIU1UNRlg=; b=HFTVgRHBA3mwVpJmPde5gMjlMb78MN4YUIZjmmrbPpYYpopQ42c47rcnsJU2GTxq1M SpDNA38et5lSORLV0DPumbhwCGe2d5TdArfTmKaqONksMRMcs42GDakBnmxBIa9Ktndt iNXMPKH0pno3R2RP3/va5Ga3AWBejVdzLIfiKKqbWh1YIBbbPWCxB7O5l0RKIWkiNDO6 WeH1HOwjqXRDFDA97Gw1rFSMXpHMasdCJwfAKz5C+GASulZ2xaD+5nbOoqW/D3E1ddoF UJs9G+KQZMHXh50Q9W2WIu1gtdgR8IK2EXRySLrOE2+lRWUJ0Mb6jvytGvG1J5te1S/s SplQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=c9mDwRqmvwuAdaD1EkGhf+khyehDFl3+dlvIU1UNRlg=; b=QdB2B4tFKELiOxZxJw5dxhNOtWDv5695tci2BBw54f0jcshqNvZuK8GvFOk/B2FVkj 4IgPsh1e6usODrmILjKobltNTAuS51EXxnWZkdVdkXmhP6mJgB8gBPkk9gMZCLo0jIPf Uo9DBhxEMUXJ+a/9R/Q18067M5/FCEmrJyfalwiTCnoKJxzCDHTVsVG8x3AAmh6JVXdv 5kz794lEC9oILs4r6YqKAN9OW6OevuGJnQGWIwvy6bk0xUuOHjK+gt5W+Xgy5IulvuV4 ZHSjQOlp2AwwkNaoGZaKMxkEHh6omsKweS3oD3g2wgJmCiTcG+Fw5PrnvuwACcwUZMZT H9Hw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjARv4hX2914MenzIfZTN0DrTRwpbTNEKLDW297yA9BN5t0/UX4 bFGNXuZC5KdjliCLj5QLPOMkDeAggo+l+zcI46E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBnxSAWXuyiqUyNQzWr7ZE4f0Qif4hFz/3GhhNsG1wsktrGFIWkiL/0NHQ26Lo2HFWxykAsc00PGz2N7tVJI8I= X-Received: by 10.55.19.75 with SMTP id d72mr2737735qkh.266.1505840198508; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:56:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.19.206 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:56:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <150583936645.11787.3653434949933737592@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Dan Romascanu Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 19:56:37 +0300 Message-ID: To: Alia Atlas Cc: "gen-art@ietf.org" , "bier@ietf.org" , IETF Discussion Mailing List , draft-ietf-bier-architecture.all@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113fffb81ee32f05598dbef5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 16:56:42 -0000 --001a113fffb81ee32f05598dbef5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Alia, Yes, I am aware about this. Yet, there is this little sentence in the WG charter which does not seem to be answered by now :-) 'The scope of the experiment will be documented in the output of the Working Group.' Regards, Dan On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > Hi Dan, > > On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Dan Romascanu > wrote: > >> Reviewer: Dan Romascanu >> Review result: Ready >> >> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed >> by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just >> like any other last call comments. >> >> For more information, please see the FAQ at >> >> . >> >> Document: draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 >> Reviewer: Dan Romascanu >> Review Date: 2017-09-19 >> IETF LC End Date: 2017-09-20 >> IESG Telechat date: 2017-09-28 >> >> Summary: >> >> This document is Ready. I have reviewed the previous version (07) and the >> resulting discussions with the authors and the edits for the current >> version >> (08) addressed most of the issues raised in the previous review. One >> single >> issue remains open, it is minor, and concerns more the charter scope. >> However, >> as it is related to the Experimental status of the document, I am >> mentioning it >> again. I do not believe it was clarified in the revision or the >> discussions. >> >> Major issues: >> >> Minor issues: >> >> 1. As the document is targeting 'Experimental' it would be useful to >> mention >> what is the scope of the experiment. The charter actually says: >> >> ' The scope of the experiment will be >> documented in the output of the Working Group.' >> >> Would not the Architecture document be the right place for this? If not, >> is >> there another document that deals or is planned to define the scope of the >> experiment? >> > > Thanks for the review! The charter has an item (#9, I believe) for > describing > the results to progress to standards track. > > Regards, > Alia > --001a113fffb81ee32f05598dbef5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Alia,

Yes, I am aware abou= t this. Yet, there is this little sentence in the WG charter which does not= seem to be answered by now :-)

'The scope of the experiment wi= ll be documented in the output of the Working Group.'

Regards,

Dan


On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Alia Atlas <akat= las@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dan,

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Dan Romascanu <dromasca@gmail.com> wrote:
Reviewer: Dan Romascanu
Review result: Ready

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.=C2=A0 Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at

<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq<= /a>>.

Document: draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08
Reviewer: Dan Romascanu
Review Date: 2017-09-19
IETF LC End Date: 2017-09-20
IESG Telechat date: 2017-09-28

Summary:

This document is Ready. I have reviewed the previous version (07) and the resulting discussions with the authors and the edits for the current versio= n
(08) addressed most of the issues raised in the previous review. One single=
issue remains open, it is minor, and concerns more the charter scope. Howev= er,
as it is related to the Experimental status of the document, I am mentionin= g it
again. I do not believe it was clarified in the revision or the discussions= .

Major issues:

Minor issues:

1. As the document is targeting 'Experimental' it would be useful t= o mention
what is the scope of the experiment. The charter actually says:

' The scope of the experiment will be
documented in the output of the Working Group.'

Would not the Architecture document be the right place for this? If not, is=
there another document that deals or is planned to define the scope of the<= br> experiment?

<= div>the results to progress to standards track.


--001a113fffb81ee32f05598dbef5-- From nobody Tue Sep 19 10:12:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12FB13304E; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:12:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HVRL7nGX5yPI; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x236.google.com (mail-it0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFE95124207; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x236.google.com with SMTP id c195so324341itb.1; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:12:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=jjEiGf5cvMHqULcCv1h7YQfxchjJjH6p30sJ3zcPsEU=; b=vb6Go+7v79TviP8er3hphOYKyZRzhgzcb+plKTaMGAAcMp0P5C+kww+KBp98DtMqx5 JdGzDB2jkSmA9ctXWEXNVWsLVKDBr1KxUErs3aMF7NJZWzqaLXf5g2WbwmQb2f1kGUiA gB8HhUevYtO0kY50WJHV2Kmrk+U9WbefjkhwDD/ygglMT8PzCKpl82lZrjXWaFbNlopP vR290aE8O/a+XITKpswt786pXBzhBXJnR5J9UyWrt4tZou1924j9W15vNJG3VawV+2Q2 tyOYCH+2dM5lAJTx9IE2N0/l32I3HS6dFHsJzc4uvdJTMT9qetUxQ448PCdxNtKvYJW1 YEgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jjEiGf5cvMHqULcCv1h7YQfxchjJjH6p30sJ3zcPsEU=; b=JDYfvNOVrGokhdlaHCZXxEslLdLlo7reB+W6r5FFNdt6dEsymAtlU7fMJ8sc0L4WJh 1fpiGfuIKxjIyLqGElMHQt4yp019CsglubsYKQa5ZtQ/5ocOoctN1kiP3qW33peP5U+W vpBuBPkVPAWSX+uTVVDOXOsqrZFNQwQmIuY4IoGYulMbu8pctjnR85KByWhFnurjd2ZG a5O8foRCbiPWiKLR/jpqubYXecjVp0klKmnxCZghG5jZoG4YYg4fTmjGe/Yt7zcHgCKr xrreY7mnULyJJAbjHjsIntT7Ov5WLGXaEggdLygsFwF0NYCg/SLdqtvtriQEwSeqPfSw iTQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjBiY9luiLHmzfmL8cLp4pI0o0dXrKRERb0c3h0a31L06yWEgAH i/nAyU1LKW7N4mAkAp8N6UOVu7d+YpN+ZxY01Vg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAyCWRH/HZ9U/fcO1nQIOpgPPbPE7zGkmsiR5jXn3SRpTAlPGgMVLpk6Pnhoc8nOTqwAOQ51VmVareeJeTkfeY= X-Received: by 10.36.14.87 with SMTP id 84mr2557938ite.71.1505841134062; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:12:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.137.156 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com In-Reply-To: References: <150583936645.11787.3653434949933737592@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Greg Shepherd Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:12:13 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dan Romascanu Cc: Alia Atlas , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "bier@ietf.org" , IETF Discussion Mailing List , draft-ietf-bier-architecture.all@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11437264e254aa05598df553" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 17:12:17 -0000 --001a11437264e254aa05598df553 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The intent is for the WG to author a results draft with or without justification for moving the work to Standards track. Greg On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Dan Romascanu wrote: > Hi Alia, > > Yes, I am aware about this. Yet, there is this little sentence in the WG > charter which does not seem to be answered by now :-) > > 'The scope of the experiment will be documented in the output of the > Working Group.' > > Regards, > > Dan > > > On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > >> Hi Dan, >> >> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Dan Romascanu >> wrote: >> >>> Reviewer: Dan Romascanu >>> Review result: Ready >>> >>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed >>> by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just >>> like any other last call comments. >>> >>> For more information, please see the FAQ at >>> >>> . >>> >>> Document: draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08 >>> Reviewer: Dan Romascanu >>> Review Date: 2017-09-19 >>> IETF LC End Date: 2017-09-20 >>> IESG Telechat date: 2017-09-28 >>> >>> Summary: >>> >>> This document is Ready. I have reviewed the previous version (07) and the >>> resulting discussions with the authors and the edits for the current >>> version >>> (08) addressed most of the issues raised in the previous review. One >>> single >>> issue remains open, it is minor, and concerns more the charter scope. >>> However, >>> as it is related to the Experimental status of the document, I am >>> mentioning it >>> again. I do not believe it was clarified in the revision or the >>> discussions. >>> >>> Major issues: >>> >>> Minor issues: >>> >>> 1. As the document is targeting 'Experimental' it would be useful to >>> mention >>> what is the scope of the experiment. The charter actually says: >>> >>> ' The scope of the experiment will be >>> documented in the output of the Working Group.' >>> >>> Would not the Architecture document be the right place for this? If not, >>> is >>> there another document that deals or is planned to define the scope of >>> the >>> experiment? >>> >> >> Thanks for the review! The charter has an item (#9, I believe) for >> describing >> the results to progress to standards track. >> >> Regards, >> Alia >> > > --001a11437264e254aa05598df553 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The intent is for the WG to author a results draft with or= without justification for moving the work to Standards track.

Greg

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Dan Romascanu <= dromasca@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
Hi Alia,

Yes, I am aware about this. Yet, there = is this little sentence in the WG charter which does not seem to be answere= d by now :-)

'The scope of the experiment will be documented in= the output of the Working Group.'

Regards,

=
Dan


On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 7:4= 6 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dan,

On Tu= e, Sep 19, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Dan Romascanu <dromasca@gmail.com> wrote:
Reviewer: Dan Romascanu
Review result: Ready

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.=C2=A0 Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at

<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq<= /a>>.

Document: draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08
Reviewer: Dan Romascanu
Review Date: 2017-09-19
IETF LC End Date: 2017-09-20
IESG Telechat date: 2017-09-28

Summary:

This document is Ready. I have reviewed the previous version (07) and the resulting discussions with the authors and the edits for the current versio= n
(08) addressed most of the issues raised in the previous review. One single=
issue remains open, it is minor, and concerns more the charter scope. Howev= er,
as it is related to the Experimental status of the document, I am mentionin= g it
again. I do not believe it was clarified in the revision or the discussions= .

Major issues:

Minor issues:

1. As the document is targeting 'Experimental' it would be useful t= o mention
what is the scope of the experiment. The charter actually says:

' The scope of the experiment will be
documented in the output of the Working Group.'

Would not the Architecture document be the right place for this? If not, is=
there another document that deals or is planned to define the scope of the<= br> experiment?

<= div>the results to progress to standards track.



--001a11437264e254aa05598df553-- From nobody Sat Sep 23 06:31:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADE9313234B; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 06:31:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: akatlas@gmail.com, bier@ietf.org, tonysietf@gmail.com, bier-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.62.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150617348168.22449.15480092470592428215.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 06:31:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] bier - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 13:31:22 -0000 An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Tony Przygienda, a Chair of the bier working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Bit Indexed Explicit Replication Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Tony Przygienda Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: ospf isis idr pim rtgwg Second Priority: bess spring Third Priority: detnet homenet grow sfc People who must be present: Tony Przygienda Greg Shepherd Alia Atlas Resources Requested: Special Requests: avoid overlap with the DC routing BoF as first priority, please. As well, it would be great (as 2nd priority) if we can avoid Friday on the scheduling since I may have to leave on Fri already. tony --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Sep 23 18:28:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 845F413303A for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:28:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.439 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.439 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.26, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IOSfAJ5The9y for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:28:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22e.google.com (mail-wm0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEFA7132FB1 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:28:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id r74so11503050wme.4 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:28:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UWHGdz3n+3UF0jkbbJsDlBP1HkIUqTt6zDOkqsapN+w=; b=aFIBN5Ji1sbx98opoehMtMU24d+NyOKbMk29+82GDyASxWxwh2Fw6hRD58h0xbh2TY UjZb3oUVezxD+vzOfajqaXUYoHEa3TpFqlp0vgtyCSTedbsF6fEeVqm1Ae6xNw+/7Typ i9Y/F46CIo7BH8MvxBN7Qltj0j/K+ygvKvs7VWROhCO4sbgpCZPctxqJNrsBn5WEaGZ+ Df7CN73X5OKCepXXwVtswVBL0+v4qeATTgxORs2YqvOpfJoVv/IVaw0xj9kCmVt4cOSv GOBZinD5oDm4xpmeeKNjB3Y0V+39AVa2ZO8FZJoLuHnphhBoRO4qATgUXNoT681zVq0d D6Hw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UWHGdz3n+3UF0jkbbJsDlBP1HkIUqTt6zDOkqsapN+w=; b=i3RgL6XLsrqeBIBcHGz390jX7NyPbTYUelNTv6nkXRUkpIHqrHyqcxOVGOOBjtU5Y9 Ng55zyMqX2M2CqzBoD8t8CDPzVaP9thHnCcKDfM9D3mH6Lgcjmm6Bx8Ufp/zRK82Ob23 MIk2kRYEWfXGjCuClZgc0MOlS9pH1behKMBcDIQKpnZb9zJJ26S8mgrfaxT6+cMMU5YK Gprqx6nkYzT0NB2WH6CHpORTQQ0rm+8DynWx2mgWYDXJ05MkzgpoeUrACFeWIL6vhPbh jF7TAaPcS04J2wB2bqb+pMZg8ZBqM5tKqU1R52TAhmYZVfitbJAFZuouZHgM9W9DIBw2 xXOg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiX/apwkD2kN7bNu4y11sxNdoCcO9BxNWnB2b7Hc7s5sXfRE/3h hIOChHOLVHLXXXJ0iIgDg3K3rfJWbnXDCTfDuh0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDYW5STqfYpNkbl62J/wiR+sDqYFdckLmv6hGOIFu0vDNQmPH+fY+hJ+tUo0H6fHHxCT1KFViodlNtrp/uzWrs= X-Received: by 10.80.216.66 with SMTP id v2mr9621548edj.121.1506216485325; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:28:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.140.187 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:27:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Tony Przygienda Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:27:25 -0700 Message-ID: To: Eric C Rosen Cc: "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e08222158900e660559e55ae8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Limited WG Last Call: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 01:28:09 -0000 --089e08222158900e660559e55ae8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" BTW, the ISIS/OSPF drafts need re-spin/comment when referring to the required BML for MPLS from the architecture draft to the encapsulation draft. For the shepherds ... --- tony On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 2:06 AM, Tony Przygienda wrote: > > > The required default BML change has been introduced based on IESG reviews > of bier architecture and changes therein, IMO to the better. Since > encapsulation draft is heading towards IESG review as well we start here a > one week last call _on the added paragraph only_ parallel to moving it > towards IESG. > > > > On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Eric C Rosen wrote: > >> This rev specifies 256 as the default BitStringLength for the >> encapsulations defined in the draft, and references Section 3 of the >> architecture draft for the definition of "default BitStringLength". >> >> >> >> On 9/13/2017 10:48 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >> >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>> directories. >>> This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of >>> the IETF. >>> >>> Title : Encapsulation for Bit Index Explicit >>> Replication in MPLS and non-MPLS Networks >>> Authors : IJsbrand Wijnands >>> Eric C. Rosen >>> Andrew Dolganow >>> Jeff Tantsura >>> Sam K Aldrin >>> Israel Meilik >>> Filename : draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.txt >>> Pages : 21 >>> Date : 2017-09-13 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that >>> provides optimal multicast forwarding through a "multicast domain", >>> without requiring intermediate routers to maintain any per-flow state >>> or to engage in an explicit tree-building protocol. When a multicast >>> data packet enters the domain, the ingress router determines the set >>> of egress routers to which the packet needs to be sent. The ingress >>> router then encapsulates the packet in a BIER header. The BIER >>> header contains a bitstring in which each bit represents exactly one >>> egress router in the domain; to forward the packet to a given set of >>> egress routers, the bits corresponding to those routers are set in >>> the BIER header. The details of the encapsulation depend on the type >>> of network used to realize the multicast domain. This document >>> specifies a BIER encapsulation that can be used in an MPLS network, >>> or with slight differences, in a non-MPLS network. >>> >>> >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation/ >>> >>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-e >>> ncapsulation-08 >>> >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>> submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> I-D-Announce mailing list >>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce >>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BIER mailing list >> BIER@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> > > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > --089e08222158900e660559e55ae8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
BTW, the ISIS/OSPF drafts need re-spin/comment when referr= ing to the required BML for MPLS from the architecture draft to the encapsu= lation draft. For the shepherds ...=C2=A0

--- tony=C2=A0=

On Th= u, Sep 14, 2017 at 2:06 AM, Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
<cha= ir hat>=C2=A0

The required default BML change has bee= n introduced based on IESG reviews of bier architecture and changes therein= , IMO to the better. Since encapsulation draft is heading towards IESG revi= ew as well we start here a one week last call _on the added paragraph only_= parallel to moving it towards IESG.=C2=A0

</ch= air hat>

= On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>= wrote:
This rev specifies 256 as = the default BitStringLength for the encapsulations defined in the draft, an= d references Section 3 of the architecture draft for the definition of &quo= t;default BitStringLength".



On 9/13/2017 10:48 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the= IETF.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0: Encapsulation for Bit Index Explicit Replication in MPLS and non-MP= LS Networks
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= : IJsbrand Wijnands
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Eric C. Rosen
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Andrew Dolganow
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jeff Tantsura
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sam K Aldrin
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Israel Meilik
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 21
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2017-09-13

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 provides optimal multicast forwarding through a "multica= st domain",
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 without requiring intermediate routers to maintain any per-fl= ow state
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 or to engage in an explicit tree-building protocol.=C2=A0 Whe= n a multicast
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 data packet enters the domain, the ingress router determines = the set
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of egress routers to which the packet needs to be sent.=C2=A0= The ingress
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 router then encapsulates the packet in a BIER header.=C2=A0 T= he BIER
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 header contains a bitstring in which each bit represents exac= tly one
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 egress router in the domain; to forward the packet to a given= set of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 egress routers, the bits corresponding to those routers are s= et in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the BIER header.=C2=A0 The details of the encapsulation depen= d on the type
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of network used to realize the multicast domain.=C2=A0 This d= ocument
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 specifies a BIER encapsulation that can be used in an MPLS ne= twork,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 or with slight differences, in a non-MPLS network.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr= aft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08
https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdif= f?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
I-D-Announce@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-ann= ounce
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html<= br> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier


_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier


--089e08222158900e660559e55ae8-- From nobody Mon Sep 25 14:11:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDA5D1345A8; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:11:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WNc31LSSj65M; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22a.google.com (mail-wm0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 502261345AB; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id m72so1552054wmc.1; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:11:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dv6qfTa1amOSm7i3L4zqszu5y4dmiILQZMA4Kkg6S/g=; b=Tid8L5h82q7Ix2WdUi7K6k4nVQAqXS0EZYcOnYfeQxzM6DukG9nEYjtNWxDZrEYdIt 8R1ZPwM3dpgT69DkM5VcGxcXrPZFQwOip7nLzQp+kIhk/6u27RSdvLoNaI3KwRz0ugbz Y7r9djRf9HULApNPfo0DgTJblt7z+p4PPWcd4NmgxMls8vMZU5txSuIoiqci3OawUQeB Q8GzknAeoI32fxB1h/4uhmUenaknqbxR3YXFG4W9OW6698QvFY/FZj1ZCgz4vpkqU9ZQ caQx7W/e2QYVgS6ltC1tiIS7dQch7pMA+kS8ivCVHF8eEZtT26DyEm9cVLUzyuPT32N/ 6zoA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dv6qfTa1amOSm7i3L4zqszu5y4dmiILQZMA4Kkg6S/g=; b=DMZS3Oh1l7JT0eBpamTfpOgkYnn8/pFj10kz+8UK4MQ7kW4nUUu6muzjtlqVts4LGY jNN/l/hk5J0dsmDMVujSHunlB2Tef2tHZYRLOikj/mqnvFLpuOnYrWT62Vt6HIYVd0pS kJ/Nw0drxWg+5c8p7tb0q574fRflsjiNNjA7sYxgvOfx1m0whF207TOTQuWThZIuyTpx F3UM8oHnZX3khGv/YE2foMRzSPT+XcqqSVToBXidVC6pgcnYnKU0hbD9yfu7nCuT/GLT MZCNPxxLg4+BDbQ4LkvN5kegd4tvBrCTwMwW4YsQ2hHmpGXJ0nQH5Vf7mneR6J4+YLWQ dPxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUg8h+G0yXZTkHaDegrAEOvzZRKlu5Atf3nH/KWiQlXBkG6TABQQ VJpcWI+Jgyzq77ZuB5oQ0qTH9DJtodJJsp8ZuDh9Q4UR X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAgV8uNV9cJIcoSdsYWxGHdenL7mAlRdGXS/O7lyyPQ5/j5DpAietPKUobXNgcKiqSOFyah7Qgb2ifz4/4xLGQ= X-Received: by 10.80.177.29 with SMTP id k29mr15127462edd.159.1506373859796; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:10:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.140.187 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:10:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Przygienda Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:10:19 -0700 Message-ID: To: draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org, "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c14f6cfe9eb055a09feec" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] IPR disclosures for draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 21:11:06 -0000 --f403045c14f6cfe9eb055a09feec Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" To all authors of *draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation* I need IPR disclosure confirmation in full conformance with BCP 78 and BCP 79 for document shepherd writedown, please --- tony --f403045c14f6cfe9eb055a09feec Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

To all authors of = draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation

=C2=A0

I need IPR disclosure confirmation in full conformance with BCP 78 and BCP 79 for document shephe= rd writedown, please=C2=A0

=C2=A0

--- tony

--f403045c14f6cfe9eb055a09feec-- From nobody Mon Sep 25 14:16:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D5F1345A5; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:16:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mk8y4yRJZryH; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x234.google.com (mail-oi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89EF01321A7; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x234.google.com with SMTP id n82so4003921oib.8; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:16:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=OprrPyqCd3tJSPXL/gI9H2uiOA9ohxrctcoBF+qiNLw=; b=NffWiNxMHE8ULSgenEVzODwXtY5iCESwtIUrXc7IEKmhawklpaB6COTcT59rl98CHx ko5+MregYSsp2VMnNQcsVvPRP8lKw/D3x7btdF8TWl1617hIvj364SDmaYbB4h0aspRe dapSUYTP0MkPy1MHr+guVkW1Sddub4gcstXp86mdlGG2Rg7+WGyxIT1EDKttLjrEaHE5 xiSK1EQaYrwIEhA5nJ2T6w/NkjSrSORs3vC/P9qO8Zqo8XZNJ0JJyCO6CWZDc29fCE9o FwTtgYG1RpvkXWXGPJjylFBmyY2rJOKLn22EGHIo8mohQn6EEB6cHihF85IdC2hk7g5l dJDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=OprrPyqCd3tJSPXL/gI9H2uiOA9ohxrctcoBF+qiNLw=; b=gjoxmdW6BjKhf/rhGSG4uyknE3j8/6Jw0ITrg4rqNvuavXZ1W5lsiosryr57iXnRXk WOF9U0csECqhx97qNCp5wjxw0kTICaJLIJJsMjd3udBQZkfum7W8kJFL7hh4xE26pLYI mOx5jC7GJvmTcV/LIY5HYXlhH6ZH1om+KhfbO1niUVzxzG7UdnYF6zIci9KAGSF5Sm8M qaXADFzB1hIUnBBiTHgUkqdUO31ERgyEROKjXNvXo+VvYYmu7AInfZwuN/gyH4Ka1LSC otjZcxWIA/17JOsCq5Nu+KiJQski9SLBICUSmjOyXVK4EI8/YPgounitgl6Bbc3Euj3p m2mw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgL5QcTnnVkNKdEZFbq9wmylMPMVc2v5ZYCR9cldMsCv9VJYFkN KoQJ73TjxKAdtQV0pmFePV1qhRVh X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAZyOe/XlhPgz+nh0VLPKgqpy9aR1fafEC4HhEYGI+8Fv8L1897P4ALo4/FyxFwDCt0bc9/ng== X-Received: by 10.202.44.134 with SMTP id s128mr9237065ois.99.1506374182790; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2607:fb90:c2a4:e8f2:516b:81a7:e72e:c6a? ([2607:fb90:c2a4:e8f2:516b:81a7:e72e:c6a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f6sm7887932oib.27.2017.09.25.14.16.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-61751F00-FB55-4DCA-AA30-408D8325576A Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jeff Tantsura X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15A372) In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 16:16:21 -0500 Cc: draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org, "bier@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1B44B454-743D-4B18-B75A-46AEE512CC19@gmail.com> References: To: Tony Przygienda Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] IPR disclosures for draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 21:16:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail-61751F00-FB55-4DCA-AA30-408D8325576A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony, I=92m not aware of any IPR that applies to the draft. Regards, Jeff > On Sep 25, 2017, at 16:10, Tony Przygienda wrote: >=20 > To all authors of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation >=20 > =20 >=20 > I need IPR disclosure confirmation in full conformance with BCP 78 and BCP= 79 for document shepherd writedown, please=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > --- tony --Apple-Mail-61751F00-FB55-4DCA-AA30-408D8325576A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony,

I=E2=80=99m not aw= are of any IPR that applies to the draft.

Regards,
Jeff

On Sep 25, 2017, at 16:10, Tony Pr= zygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

To all authors of d= raft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation

 

I need IPR disclosure confirmation in full conformance with BCP 78 and BCP 79 for document shepher= d writedown, please 

 

--- tony

= --Apple-Mail-61751F00-FB55-4DCA-AA30-408D8325576A-- From nobody Mon Sep 25 17:27:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED3EC1321DC; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 17:27:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-bier-architecture@ietf.org, Greg Shepherd , bier-chairs@ietf.org, gjshep@gmail.com, bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.62.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150638565196.10096.12789639497874716816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 17:27:31 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 00:27:32 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Just asking for my own understanding ... In this text, If, at some time, the routing underlay is not providing a loop free path between BFIR-A and BFER-B, then BIER encapsulated packets may loop while traveling from BFIR-A to BFER-B. However, such loops will never result in delivery of duplicate packets to BFER-B. I'm assuming that these loops could result in out of order delivery of packets to BFER-B? No document change requested, of course. And either answer is fine. From nobody Tue Sep 26 08:29:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3EF134213; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:29:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E3YOTGa_rNIC; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x236.google.com (mail-wr0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B33C126BF3; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x236.google.com with SMTP id c23so13565660wrg.9; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:29:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UYg1zxS+ge4CNz53cAVWugyz247r61okOMAlH/T54Z0=; b=V85DBOifltp+eiF55pM+nhq7XYymVzcyk4cjamjMpeR9L6eVW/BoLDrrr66FZLII8W d7cIXPTHQ/rENndseDqRveKa1wBh0XTFvLk9lLl3cmurNIaSnozXqe5p0GSX+cirnM52 KOHBpByfnqvMyJ0Bxf8BVSJwyI58z4tzU2CSE6Co1R2jm+3qcOlCEgVdOtRc/r8OBRCd Q8sI6e08LM9AyJF53DmPngfAyNW0T/66tZx4OMCXPFkpYlQ8SYb9BN/MbAKu65Gk/2PW qrj7xgYM8NKmVA4287088JyZq/n2mBJAV8KAitPSeeGmOildcsm20cWX/6plrSGvaOrs axMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UYg1zxS+ge4CNz53cAVWugyz247r61okOMAlH/T54Z0=; b=CEE5vJN5+vCSHoXeQJTf5V38CCstUDOLJ11MMP7yqiZqFMCGW7jRQ4SDZyt5iZU93X WbsMaPDMkOU8kpV/ucz3GAvbRiBLjIL6I8qCjkkMixmpEQEAtC8RlTFuOAe8kl/VE/Mg /uXkg4z3TJC6X8WEZ1/ejQZ8aDsbaAEnslyFJ5HRk4MdVzJb3YmOxo4m4M96hIw37w0r +Mw7gKzC5L1yp3AmmEn4sJeLEc8B7ieH5SGMLZkATpvr4HAvPp7gADUymKsDTaQ9zlai jQs+0ryQp+lscZs24jSYNfgFH7pJCmDVxOOvDwai/m2fVizjYZsKIzyrdJmZd2nJfePF /NHA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUi4LOKHm4DM1lmoD6k5yJ5lcuBIXbe6dbrRag1Yw4soO+bwWCav V1SpPYYPNXDpCxkLuyF6oE7CfiuR3+B04ljBzAA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAGu2jLg0uQvVdO4Mb2q/8EatFauyJ50uttfIup0qkHrGEjuGVYkM1puzO6R0+7nWA92jsqllc8gPCdopBAtr8= X-Received: by 10.223.136.43 with SMTP id d40mr8695611wrd.121.1506439792386; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:29:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.136.153 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:29:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Alia Atlas Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 11:29:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: Tony Przygienda Cc: "bier@ietf.org" , OSPF List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11491596b369ed055a1958d1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] [OSPF] Document Shepherd for OSPF BIER draft ... X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:29:56 -0000 --001a11491596b369ed055a1958d1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'd like to see this draft progressed in Oct. I need the shepherd's report for next week to make that happen. It's a quick read :-) Regards, Alia On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Tony Przygienda wrote: > Ladies & Gentlemen, we still look for OSPF BIER document shepherd towards > IESG. It's important, doc is ready, you will be helped and it's a good > possibility to meet/work with the upstairs crowd a bit ... > > Takers ? please ping bier-chairs@ietf.org then ... > > thanks > > -- tony > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > > --001a11491596b369ed055a1958d1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd like to see this draft progressed in Oct.=C2=A0 I = need the shepherd's report
for next week to make that happen.
=

It's a quick read :-)

Rega= rds,
Alia

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Tony Przygienda <tonys= ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Ladies & Gentlemen, we still look for OSPF BIER document = shepherd towards IESG. It's important, doc is ready, you will be helped= and it's a good possibility to meet/work with the upstairs crowd a bit= ...=C2=A0

Takers ? =C2=A0please ping bier-chairs@ietf.org=C2=A0then = ...=C2=A0

thanks=C2=A0

-- tony=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
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--001a11491596b369ed055a1958d1-- From nobody Tue Sep 26 08:56:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 879A11342D5; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:56:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XFUZwhRgNMsT; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97F6E1342DD; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:56:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1084; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1506441384; x=1507650984; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=2VEQUhUxnD6zh/XwmCGK+KkL2yrqiriGVNJzlvy0954=; b=CenOkjtPactiv1Wp3YaQsL+ZqGIAhIU9j1X6IJy0sX1OH8w8LlJMJGNd stoTx1qBVydNliH4ySk4+bxrdzjawBJvUQWxNYI6GUn9jpU8gO8zP3F/k r5N6OQUSKOBbt1of/Bo83tQrxuhx1I5bnH3CEeYN/QXv8gxcEHxMVvo3w 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CiAwADeMpZ/5BdJa1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg1tEgQ6EHZobPwEBAQEBAQUBgQkeAYVmklkKhTsChE9XAQIBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQJrKIUZBiNWEAsSCAImAgJJDgaKOA2oRYInixwBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBH4EOgh2CAoEJgjEBKwuCcoUEgxMvgjEFihKIOI5WizqJI5MGkhCDCgIECwI?= =?us-ascii?q?ZAYE5V4EOUyUVWwGCdIJIgW4gizEBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,441,1500940800"; d="scan'208";a="8913634" Received: from rcdn-core-8.cisco.com ([173.37.93.144]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 26 Sep 2017 15:56:24 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-155-68-202.cisco.com (dhcp-10-155-68-202.cisco.com [10.155.68.202]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v8QFuMfZ021937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:56:22 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: IJsbrand Wijnands In-Reply-To: <150638565196.10096.12789639497874716816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:57:24 -0700 Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-bier-architecture@ietf.org, gjshep@gmail.com, bier@ietf.org, bier-chairs@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <252FCC81-29D7-4F95-8413-CFCEBF099FCD@cisco.com> References: <150638565196.10096.12789639497874716816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Spencer Dawkins X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:56:29 -0000 Hi Spencer, See my response below to your question: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Just asking for my own understanding ... >=20 > In this text, >=20 > If, at some time, the routing underlay is not providing a loop free > path between BFIR-A and BFER-B, then BIER encapsulated packets may > loop while traveling from BFIR-A to BFER-B. However, such loops = will > never result in delivery of duplicate packets to BFER-B. >=20 > I'm assuming that these loops could result in out of order delivery of = packets to BFER-B? Its correct there is no duplicate delivery of packets, which is a great = benefit of BIER over traditional multicast protocols. The loop behaves = just like with Unicast, for a particular BFER that is effected, the = traffic is back holed. As soon as the loop is broken, normal delivery of = packets resumes. I don=E2=80=99t think that will result in out-of-order = packets. Thx, Ice.= From nobody Tue Sep 26 08:59:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 208D11342D9; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:59:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.023 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.023 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.059, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.437, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3QCUZVufD5g8; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9107B1342D8; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:59:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=62189; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1506441553; x=1507651153; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to; bh=Yjgg99NHCXStUUjGwDJpj9WZ0q15dfLit+aQNWXBaqQ=; b=f9l6tSHossRbrAoEQlbFZQzuRovG3oetW4xN3cP7OtKdTvhter3muXqZ fynb9C8vMgiy8kIz6U1J53C1F2SN19Ad1IGE6Gp6si4wdC5ZL8qKbogXo c5Kzb1QZAtrnYjB/aACOyvwPOKPf/3fZfxo+NR58rHkaJevh1WRGBJkBl E=; X-Files: PastedGraphic-6.png : 43631 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AIBAB0eMpZ/4oNJK1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgnIDBmBEgQ4ng3aaGz8BAQEBAQEGgSuIQYgrghaFOgcBAoU7AoR?= =?us-ascii?q?PVwECAQEBAQECayiFGAEBAQECAQUeVgULCwEBAgETBQEBASICAgIVAQkFMQYSA?= =?us-ascii?q?QaKFAMIBQioRoInhzcNg1gBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEOD4MrggKBCYJ?= =?us-ascii?q?dgn2CXoU5L4IxAQSSSo4aPIZeiQaEeYIThW+LBIxnhSmDCgIECwIZAYE5V4EOU?= =?us-ascii?q?yUVWwGCdIQ2IDaKewEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,441,1500940800"; d="png'150?scan'150,208,217,150";a="8385701" Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 26 Sep 2017 15:59:12 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-155-68-202.cisco.com (dhcp-10-155-68-202.cisco.com [10.155.68.202]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v8QFxBGh017746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:59:12 GMT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_35ACEFA8-0817-49FA-97CD-1CF8B3782848" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: IJsbrand Wijnands In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 09:00:14 -0700 Cc: draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org, "bier@ietf.org" Message-Id: <7C661A41-959D-41C9-877F-4047D20AC51F@cisco.com> References: To: Tony Przygienda X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] IPR disclosures for draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:59:15 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_35ACEFA8-0817-49FA-97CD-1CF8B3782848 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80=99m not aware of other IPR (that was not already disclosed). Thx, Ice. > On 25 Sep 2017, at 14:10, Tony Przygienda wrote: >=20 > To all authors of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation >=20 > =20 > I need IPR disclosure confirmation in full conformance with BCP 78 and = BCP 79 for document shepherd writedown, please=20 >=20 > =20 > --- tony >=20 --Apple-Mail=_35ACEFA8-0817-49FA-97CD-1CF8B3782848 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CBC5A163-8E67-4484-A3CC-DBF07B66887A" --Apple-Mail=_CBC5A163-8E67-4484-A3CC-DBF07B66887A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I=E2=80=99m not = aware of other IPR (that was not already disclosed).

Thx,

Ice.

On 25 Sep 2017, at = 14:10, Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> wrote:

To all authors of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation

 
I need IPR = disclosure confirmation in full conformance with BCP 78 and BCP 79 = for document shepherd writedown, please 

 
--- tony




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SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2017 17:17:03.7806 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN1PR05MB2302 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] IPR disclosures for draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 17:17:08 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------20321FACCAE7D1A5A55B43FF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am unaware of any undisclosed IPR applicable to this draft. On 9/25/2017 5:10 PM, Tony Przygienda wrote: > > To all authors of *draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation* > > I need IPR disclosure confirmation in full conformance with BCP 78 and > BCP 79 for document shepherd writedown, please > > --- tony > --------------20321FACCAE7D1A5A55B43FF Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I am unaware of any undisclosed IPR applicable to this draft.



On 9/25/2017 5:10 PM, Tony Przygienda wrote:

To all authors of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation

 

I need IPR disclosure confirmation in full conformance with BCP 78 and BCP 79 for document shepherd writedown, please 

 

--- tony


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The loop behaves just like with Unicast, for a particular BFER that is effected, the traffic is back holed. As soon as the loop is broken, normal delivery of packets resumes. I don’t think that will result in out-of-order packets. The looping traffic is only blackholed if the loop still exists by the time the TTL becomes zero.  If the loop ends while some looping packets are still in flight, with TTLs still large enough to reach the destination, those packets will get delivered. Note that misordering is always possible (even in unicast) when there is a topology change.  Consider packets P1 and P2, where P1 entered the network first and is closer to the destination.  If there is a topology change while both packets are in flight, it might happen that P2 is now closer to the destination than P1.  This would result in out of order delivery.  And a packet, P3, that entered the network after the change, could conceivably get delivered before either P1 or P2. So I think Spencer's observation is correct.  But  this sort of misordering is not specific to multicast or to BIER. The big problem with loops in conventional multicast is not misordering, but duplication.  In conventional multicast, if a packet travels around a loop 100 times, 100 copies of it could get delivered to each destination.  This can't happen in BIER, because when a packet is replicated, the BitStrings are disjoint. From nobody Tue Sep 26 10:52:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B47C1342CE; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 10:52:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SlirZLvdVC99; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 10:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x229.google.com (mail-yw0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A1E01330AE; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 10:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x229.google.com with SMTP id p10so7642202ywh.8; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 10:52:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VFpcwcPKCs8TrJxVmdOblhDRieA1wkqsJxMoyMfNpHI=; b=gHoIfxA5vskJpD9CuGYI7LqvTe656MQcYKzuIQLqPKhF0kQcfeGuPLlcSymXn1OmEN snURdpA/WQS2mBaFKpRuU7PF7K6daigMNeW0rlrAhttQFgx2qNnmZ1wUw9H22amaipxA DfRgGHP2YgSp3zHlyByks2JQ0lb1nn3M934fqibOeqS+FjI0azxk9iZ+N/PkDlMJ8ume Wjx46b6kiyxNW2hiOuGA2dHmiGEOjDWC2n32oq42tRMAVYiUAOkRVaQ7RIgK7UI/nrHH tWfdz7mnp6KgdmFcI2+R+BO5qi11G/6pBPJKR6ya0tF1cRtzmJpLNEjFepsPjrq1J7N7 0IvA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VFpcwcPKCs8TrJxVmdOblhDRieA1wkqsJxMoyMfNpHI=; b=JMmhXqBhqwTVOFkmREUbwQdtToE/g3/+PNBkKsa1S0vXz7o1WpT1C5fiCFB2uyjnrh 2cXnwme1XFX6rmT5aIaagqO2GAu22mYJtYBdAR2WFGgLEcVHeebVNum6vrdmdH0RI7w9 VnHRFssfpKOff4oRwvTMbt85VUhQ4esX6lBz6eI73CykOgQkv7MwK3FIm14arcQPowHx h3ODwz1I1JGQfSMUWyPonn4Koc6+htGdcqIxytHejQieOKOdrhK2MM47xHhpRSu09JqV 4OQapETXTIBmw6b/xMLajaYeBAtPi9xmm/1T4+S5FB4wDAj+AwN2ZQKb6PvkluBbQNAH OUDA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUj7f9duP7BUFzLFSdwV/lskp0PwFosWqf4oA8y1SqOPaTqoLLGw LHDOzU21GLbKevLIvF9nt15YUm2AYTWqOWl+0VU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCmJmVG+CTZCEezq7ESuzVakme3UqnPm+OCj7W54ZVQZfMuzpR1hm2dSIdMKrYpkezKgAO2iPbJShdp0Fq/LlY= X-Received: by 10.129.115.197 with SMTP id o188mr6821943ywc.124.1506448341764; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 10:52:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.2.71 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 10:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.2.71 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 10:52:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <25b5b625-e8eb-5e7c-0708-64432fd0e8c7@juniper.net> References: <150638565196.10096.12789639497874716816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <252FCC81-29D7-4F95-8413-CFCEBF099FCD@cisco.com> <25b5b625-e8eb-5e7c-0708-64432fd0e8c7@juniper.net> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 01:52:20 +0800 Message-ID: To: Eric C Rosen Cc: iesg@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bier-architecture@ietf.org, IJsbrand Wijnands , gjshep@gmail.com, bier@ietf.org, bier-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114934dc488d93055a1b5617" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 17:52:24 -0000 --001a114934dc488d93055a1b5617 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sep 27, 2017 01:36, "Eric C Rosen" wrote: On 9/26/2017 11:57 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands wrote: > Its correct there is no duplicate delivery of packets, which is a great > benefit of BIER over traditional multicast protocols. The loop behaves ju= st > like with Unicast, for a particular BFER that is effected, the traffic is > back holed. As soon as the loop is broken, normal delivery of packets > resumes. I don=E2=80=99t think that will result in out-of-order packets. > The looping traffic is only blackholed if the loop still exists by the time the TTL becomes zero. If the loop ends while some looping packets are still in flight, with TTLs still large enough to reach the destination, those packets will get delivered. Note that misordering is always possible (even in unicast) when there is a topology change. Consider packets P1 and P2, where P1 entered the network first and is closer to the destination. If there is a topology change while both packets are in flight, it might happen that P2 is now closer to the destination than P1. This would result in out of order delivery. And a packet, P3, that entered the network after the change, could conceivably get delivered before either P1 or P2. So I think Spencer's observation is correct. But this sort of misordering is not specific to multicast or to BIER. The big problem with loops in conventional multicast is not misordering, but duplication. In conventional multicast, if a packet travels around a loop 100 times, 100 copies of it could get delivered to each destination. This can't happen in BIER, because when a packet is replicated, the BitStrings are disjoint. Thank you both for helping me understand. So the situation when out of order packet delivery happens is no worse with BIER. Spencer --001a114934dc488d93055a1b5617 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sep 27, 2017 01:36, "Eric C Rosen" <erosen@juniper.net> wrote:
On 9/26/2017 11= :57 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands wrote:
Its correct there is no duplicate delivery of packets, which is a great ben= efit of BIER over traditional multicast protocols. The loop behaves just li= ke with Unicast, for a particular BFER that is effected, the traffic is bac= k holed. As soon as the loop is broken, normal delivery of packets resumes.= I don=E2=80=99t think that will result in out-of-order packets.

The looping traffic is only blackholed if the loop still exists by the time= the TTL becomes zero.=C2=A0 If the loop ends while some looping packets ar= e still in flight, with TTLs still large enough to reach the destination, t= hose packets will get delivered.

Note that misordering is always possible (even in unicast) when there is a = topology change.=C2=A0 Consider packets P1 and P2, where P1 entered the net= work first and is closer to the destination.=C2=A0 If there is a topology c= hange while both packets are in flight, it might happen that P2 is now clos= er to the destination than P1.=C2=A0 This would result in out of order deli= very.=C2=A0 And a packet, P3, that entered the network after the change, co= uld conceivably get delivered before either P1 or P2.

So I think Spencer's observation is correct.=C2=A0 But=C2=A0 this sort = of misordering is not specific to multicast or to BIER.

The big problem with loops in conventional multicast is not misordering, bu= t duplication.=C2=A0 In conventional multicast, if a packet travels around = a loop 100 times, 100 copies of it could get delivered to each destination.= =C2=A0 This can't happen in BIER, because when a packet is replicated, = the BitStrings are disjoint.

Thank you both for helping me understand.=

So the situation when o= ut of order packet delivery happens is no worse with BIER.

Spencer
--001a114934dc488d93055a1b5617-- From nobody Tue Sep 26 14:05:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D53613446D; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 14:05:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Fi6NOTU8wWP; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 14:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22f.google.com (mail-wr0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 065E113446C; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 14:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id v109so14248133wrc.1; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 14:05:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=OU1ezuB7FzBBZObenpIXyABsBGvct33MzCUSj+unH/I=; b=pC6JE+Z4KYfcVJfmnE6I7C9ridlf+rmwSK5BTSoSem/76QzlkjppcRBefrWfyWxIi+ wYyT2dnRUWLz13KQoa2xCTFplOe0clxFQCMZJqZ4uADSWS+289TxlVJeYwofY1vw0YEU d9JdxGO9o4GtWud6tuVN4DBySSjXQ+ctYH6aH0GuoJGYatgnvoku9OWTiCKaXks3+CJU 6HpSaH1gIZGrUQwO1pl+kX9e3MQ1SpWXAPHdex+Fj23K1cFnPRhGYn2+Ge0pZAQroXw4 pnCxBPB8W9q87FwZSpb5lNdCz9X1bUroZSOW2i1S+J0UFhnoZtN04LKCr+i+/pW8QdpP lBKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=OU1ezuB7FzBBZObenpIXyABsBGvct33MzCUSj+unH/I=; b=XpC8qycCMNEfFBjbMiz5n1fyKZLHfje01Q2juDR6n9XSdTwrLoqalWuata75w/GMp+ PGJtDf63oGc/sGOTrquY+33A0w7804W98S46sqaaLXhBmcHlHVG8Tm9+xlkVW6PVQiQL gni0De1UQuX5G2RRAO59VRTBbZN8t408DjHTy4LYRrw/ANtf2hdHPT9jZbK4uYJYywem buumc1GC7p6UzsmMv+c0Es8cKYr9OgVof9XwGSTwWN0/0FwRIXmU5Y4FyscY5xqa84HV J2gF4iqkRyddsDlJY1MdDufa8uYLTmxkZndYA73H7PtDHUszle47gDf5i8dTG052IbPs 6idw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiV1ed44ZM8d5WkeJ2lHDP4J56qe8LUL1jKLFomZulajaFmwEWl IZh4INQK0Sa7bDSpOPpK+wR5OEtbmbOmthMd6QMP/0Rs X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAMffZpoH4wf7cbx9DM+KfnNk0FtnBq3jU+bMekPKQmCEFTBgImca7vGx+ORtBE6dRgJA2gr9ZSDJBySD90K+I= X-Received: by 10.223.196.228 with SMTP id o33mr10179847wrf.253.1506459933195; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 14:05:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.136.153 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 14:05:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Alia Atlas Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 17:05:32 -0400 Message-ID: To: "bier@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f566a2fd388055a1e0954" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 21:05:36 -0000 --f403045f566a2fd388055a1e0954 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08. First, I would like to thank the authors & editors, Ice, Eric, Andrew, Jeff, Sam, and Israel, as well as the WG for this solid document. I do have a couple major issues that need to be resolved ASAP so I can get this document into IETF Last Call and scheduled for the telechat on Oct 26. Major: 1) First, this draft references draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-06 for the only description of how the OAM bits are used. I think, based on a very quick scan, that perhaps draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-10 would work as well - but even that is Experimental so would be a downref when this goes Standards Track. What might be useful to say in this draft is: "'Specifying the values of the OAM bits or interpreting them is not done by the BIER forwarding layer. Instead, an OAM layer can specify the value to be used by a BFIR and process the received OAM values at a BFER. The OAM bits MAY be set to any value by a BFIR; the OAM bits SHOULD NOT be modified by BFRs as part of normal processing, unless instructed to by an OAM process. The BFERs SHOULD provide a mechanism for reporting at least the number of packets received in a row with each value. One example of how such OAM bits can be used by different OAM processing is described in [draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark]." I'm sure it can be wordsmithed better. The key points are to define where the OAM bits can be set, where they can be modified, and that packets counts based on the values should be provided in some fashion. Then the reference to what the OAM layer does can be informative. Regardless of the reference type, this type of normative language is needed. 2) In Sec 2.2.3, it says: "Rather, a new ethertype would have to be assigned and used. Specification of the layer 2 codepoints to be used for the non-MPLS BIER encapsulation is outside the scope of this document." I thought that this document is asking for a standard EtherType for the non-MPLS BIER encapsulation?? Certainly, I need text like that to request the allocation from IEEE. Please be clear that this document is asking for an IEEE Ethertype to be allocated, if that is, as I understood, the WG's intent. Nit: a) Sec 3 bullet 6a: s/BFIR's BFIR-id/BFIR's BFR-id Regards, Alia --f403045f566a2fd388055a1e0954 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ie= tf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.=C2=A0 First, I would like to thank the autho= rs & editors, Ice, Eric, Andrew, Jeff, Sam, and Israel, as well as the = WG for this solid document.

I do have a couple maj= or issues that need to be resolved ASAP so I can get this document into IET= F Last Call and scheduled for the telechat on Oct 26.

<= div>Major:

1) First, this draft references=C2=A0dr= aft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-06 for the only description of= how the OAM bits are used.=C2=A0 I think, based on a very quick scan, that= perhaps=C2=A0
draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-10 would work as well - but ev= en that is Experimental so would be a downref when this goes Standards Trac= k.=C2=A0 =C2=A0What might be useful to say in this draft is:

=
"'Specifying the values of the OAM bits or interpreting them = is not done by the BIER forwarding layer. Instead, an OAM layer can specify= the value to be used by a BFIR and process the received OAM values at a BF= ER.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The OAM bits MAY be set to any value by a BFIR; the OAM bit= s SHOULD NOT be modified by BFRs as part of normal processing, unless instr= ucted to by an OAM process. The BFERs SHOULD provide a mechanism for report= ing at least the number of packets received in a row with each value.=C2=A0= One example of how such OAM bits can be used by different OAM processing i= s described in [draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark]."

I&#= 39;m sure it can be wordsmithed better.=C2=A0 The key points are to define = where the OAM bits can be set, where they can be modified, and that packets= counts based on the values should be provided in some fashion.=C2=A0 Then = the reference to what the OAM layer does can be informative.=C2=A0 Regardle= ss of the reference type, this type of normative language is needed.
<= div>
2) In Sec 2.2.3, it says: "Rather, a new ethertype would= have to be assigned and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0used.=C2=A0 Specification of the l= ayer 2 codepoints to be used for the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0non-MPLS BIER encapsul= ation is outside the scope of this document."

I= thought that this document is asking for a standard EtherType for the non-= MPLS BIER encapsulation??=C2=A0 Certainly, I need text like that to request= the allocation from IEEE.
Please be clear that this document is = asking for an IEEE Ethertype to be allocated,
if that is, as I un= derstood, the WG's intent.

Nit:
a) S= ec 3 bullet 6a:=C2=A0 s/BFIR's BFIR-id/BFIR's BFR-id
=C2=A0
Regards,
Alia
--f403045f566a2fd388055a1e0954-- From nobody Tue Sep 26 15:09:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDD2913449D; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:09:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EHIG0MPt6-ac; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22a.google.com (mail-wm0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFE5313306F; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id q124so12260436wmb.0; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:09:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=zMrM5EjTN1sHb5P1rRJw90dQ3pzSPikYnIY8uRrIkHE=; b=tL95K9T5A7aP8V0wbeYnrQIbYV5nYNwNgGaxTpAVCKzPLpXee7g9X0N20DTC0Z7tcV VIF3xdKr1C5dUGoa6EIXim5jRRBjohb8U3kXyv1FQIyW6Stc/49PwA3YUA13LWh+q1BW XxEH7/dA11zUkgW/RP8JJUW7XgwxD753MEZdIAMwOrag74lGgfM8Z1yNRx2k7AO3+38u A9TUJb0EwbBc2ZgSjrSIfMVGM3H9N+NboMBsgB9uqZ7gsPJu3gMpb8XE281vGL62b3YZ YENanaB5hcITPjPfl/kPH4uZ++ww9tNfhQN3ZUvNTiViV+T3xGcY+2QhkJMuS64c2kSF xnpg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zMrM5EjTN1sHb5P1rRJw90dQ3pzSPikYnIY8uRrIkHE=; b=KY6UL5lpJbtQhYX9KNw+QNf5cGE5gmiewirnV1PwkRK813U9kAtLq2pVVfkOm3D3EM DmCmAgdssbQC3ux/wVM4+ODK56GKA5CF16blAl4PXor9S4tr3uc8soWwTjpg9ykZdc4p LBeFsQDLwooZhklhuxEVfCLKyJPrEWCCAkGX6A6Erw2G5vAVaIpUitQkNhMSIK9sn+YV eDcKwMqSLSqjUMVLjSLcd/aIBWS5uUEDegAtoVEMvzAAhxTHdLZLtKTvkCR3bPmylHRL Z7afgu1LCpckysn0CdabqjvbgFBtLX/DotNrkcS3F0vQgGmFfqWMF+4VN61b7AOFVLow 6Yqw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjDId6kDIf7uQGNS6O+BuzUlDoVcByMgQsVEy/TmoTNnAeFWjNI 3sDXuW3/2RdjX/ihOzzsamDrywIcMrFZFVe8wCI6YQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDGErZYzM1V78mzemp76gUKuX/KdH5hNNiYlIKGhQORLC7+lfrQeMlq9RNtqMGSmdqYfAKM90R/HM/9okGTuro= X-Received: by 10.80.206.73 with SMTP id k9mr19143110edj.145.1506463789335; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:09:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.140.187 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:09:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Tony Przygienda Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:09:09 -0700 Message-ID: To: Alia Atlas Cc: "bier@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045dbdfc07cb27055a1eef28" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:09:54 -0000 --f403045dbdfc07cb27055a1eef28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" There is a -09 version pending where Eric already took care of all my nits in the shepherd writedown ... This can go in. My only observation here is that I'm confused ;-) since I assumed the EtherType is gated on architecture RFC and nothing else but if we want to request EtherType in this doc specifically I'm fine as well of course ... --- tony On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08. > First, I would like to thank the authors & editors, Ice, Eric, Andrew, > Jeff, Sam, and Israel, as well as the WG for this solid document. > > I do have a couple major issues that need to be resolved ASAP so I can get > this document into IETF Last Call and scheduled for the telechat on Oct 26. > > Major: > > 1) First, this draft references draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-06 > for the only description of how the OAM bits are used. I think, based on a > very quick scan, that perhaps > draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-10 would work as well - but even that is > Experimental so would be a downref when this goes Standards Track. What > might be useful to say in this draft is: > > "'Specifying the values of the OAM bits or interpreting them is not done > by the BIER forwarding layer. Instead, an OAM layer can specify the value > to be used by a BFIR and process the received OAM values at a BFER. The > OAM bits MAY be set to any value by a BFIR; the OAM bits SHOULD NOT be > modified by BFRs as part of normal processing, unless instructed to by an > OAM process. The BFERs SHOULD provide a mechanism for reporting at least > the number of packets received in a row with each value. One example of > how such OAM bits can be used by different OAM processing is described in > [draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark]." > > I'm sure it can be wordsmithed better. The key points are to define where > the OAM bits can be set, where they can be modified, and that packets > counts based on the values should be provided in some fashion. Then the > reference to what the OAM layer does can be informative. Regardless of the > reference type, this type of normative language is needed. > > 2) In Sec 2.2.3, it says: "Rather, a new ethertype would have to be > assigned and > used. Specification of the layer 2 codepoints to be used for the > non-MPLS BIER encapsulation is outside the scope of this document." > > I thought that this document is asking for a standard EtherType for the > non-MPLS BIER encapsulation?? Certainly, I need text like that to request > the allocation from IEEE. > Please be clear that this document is asking for an IEEE Ethertype to be > allocated, > if that is, as I understood, the WG's intent. > > Nit: > a) Sec 3 bullet 6a: s/BFIR's BFIR-id/BFIR's BFR-id > > Regards, > Alia > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > --f403045dbdfc07cb27055a1eef28 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There is a -09 version pending where Eric already took car= e of all my nits in the shepherd writedown ... This can go in.=C2=A0
My only observation here is that I'm confused ;-) since I = assumed the EtherType is gated on architecture RFC and nothing else but if = we want to request EtherType in this doc specifically I'm fine as well = of course ...=C2=A0

--- tony=C2=A0

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 = at 2:05 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:
As is customary, I have done = my AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.=C2=A0 First, I = would like to thank the authors & editors, Ice, Eric, Andrew, Jeff, Sam= , and Israel, as well as the WG for this solid document.

I do have a couple major issues that need to be resolved ASAP so I c= an get this document into IETF Last Call and scheduled for the telechat on = Oct 26.

Major:

1) First, = this draft references=C2=A0draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-f= ramework-06 for the only description of how the OAM bits are used.=C2=A0 I = think, based on a very quick scan, that perhaps=C2=A0
draft-ietf-ippm-= alt-mark-10 would work as well - but even that is Experimental so would be = a downref when this goes Standards Track.=C2=A0 =C2=A0What might be useful = to say in this draft is:

"'Specifying the value= s of the OAM bits or interpreting them is not done by the BIER forwarding l= ayer. Instead, an OAM layer can specify the value to be used by a BFIR and = process the received OAM values at a BFER.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The OAM bits MAY be = set to any value by a BFIR; the OAM bits SHOULD NOT be modified by BFRs as = part of normal processing, unless instructed to by an OAM process. The BFER= s SHOULD provide a mechanism for reporting at least the number of packets r= eceived in a row with each value.=C2=A0 One example of how such OAM bits ca= n be used by different OAM processing is described in [draft-ietf-ippm-alt-= mark]."

I'm sure it can be wordsmithed bett= er.=C2=A0 The key points are to define where the OAM bits can be set, where= they can be modified, and that packets counts based on the values should b= e provided in some fashion.=C2=A0 Then the reference to what the OAM layer = does can be informative.=C2=A0 Regardless of the reference type, this type = of normative language is needed.

2) In Sec 2.2.3, it sa= ys: "Rather, a new ethertype would have to be assigned and
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0used.=C2=A0 Specification of the layer 2 codepoints to be used for th= e
=C2=A0 =C2=A0non-MPLS BIER encapsulation is outside the scope of this = document."

I thought that this document is aski= ng for a standard EtherType for the non-MPLS BIER encapsulation??=C2=A0 Cer= tainly, I need text like that to request the allocation from IEEE.
Please be clear that this document is asking for an IEEE Ethertype to be = allocated,
if that is, as I understood, the WG's intent.

Nit:
a) Sec 3 bullet 6a:=C2=A0 s/BFIR's = BFIR-id/BFIR's BFR-id
=C2=A0
Regards,
Alia=

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--f403045dbdfc07cb27055a1eef28-- From nobody Tue Sep 26 15:12:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08BA9134493; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:12:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3oeGdqmkf8Z8; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x233.google.com (mail-wr0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7737413306F; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x233.google.com with SMTP id v109so14340597wrc.1; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:12:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=qmNBJm37wpV1KH/tV82QQ0o7fM2qACvHaXrugeNJ9uQ=; b=lX9vGpgD2sScSx5r7CtJSEZUjYgBvZxublgieQYac1qPNKdb7yF64O4VaHI6i+uFH/ CxpvOX+C6cBkDLBt9qbxcGwX3KExtWpBVufSj6qlhz6ZgSBsr9yffv/6VZqQMrr/GmUR MwKiuImTKGPMsux1GvOIrXU50rzbROYRWhbsNFE0HdOk3w8EppXt748oaZSigeRwxHzZ tP6mGN93zeGW/66YemDF3RGB6wQ4Dd5mXgVnN9yQ6cmGVfZtYJm+NvG50EpbCJKEuRS6 AIGmBj9jwuFPMJHFvdkhOWFEngVRHwmR7eAffhDb1iqJqzWkPoUVd4HAsyoVORk402fk IVkg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=qmNBJm37wpV1KH/tV82QQ0o7fM2qACvHaXrugeNJ9uQ=; b=NougQza+WsyUnOzc1YCDXkry+cLBy+EY2Yx6cV22RY9biY6EmOP111FqHboijphgtH r0obUFAPqJYq4NenGIG/egfpp8pDsWQj4gsfAOdOS5MjFkxX+NhXb25Ra2uCnQsGkKH7 ccM46fIHee0BZdgq/n8Czlx07E1drlTJTWodHavuXCvCTL2sfjNqhe5oCXuXEoFDdwvG VgizzS29lNbXyRic+khFFjeADgmtXidkUlRRW7YgWdn2hKTK2D80X36PgF+Y9YK2oZ3P DO0VkH+6RmGGDTL6OgGOvl2wEJ0UnQGn+xTIQw8WaRlpDRIpNvRggTHNsLeDd6vVtO9g Fu/g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUi0RDVw7yLkX+GmMtei5LU8G0HIjiuCUUo9hOKp9B3tONRq65wk I1ou4MW3YHsdTWzg13P9L/7pFronvl6MURBoL4UjJI59 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCKi2oqWHl6Uy3Akjw5GmYATICMWpCXTQWWTQQcW46uPFVoEpXbELECfZ0bhRKinyJV3ErVR30Mpr+svoefYCo= X-Received: by 10.223.136.43 with SMTP id d40mr9412913wrd.121.1506463961521; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:12:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.136.153 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:12:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Alia Atlas Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 18:12:41 -0400 Message-ID: To: "bier@ietf.org" , OSPF List , draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114915964b220b055a1ef919" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] early AD review of draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-07 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:12:48 -0000 --001a114915964b220b055a1ef919 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I have done an early AD review of draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-07 in preparation for the publication request. First, I would like to thank the many authors for their work on this draft. Given that there are currently 7 authors listed, I'd recommend appointing a few editors or otherwise reducing down to 5 or fewer. Of course, I am also willing to consider extraordinary circumstances where the shepherd can explain to me privately the deep technical contribution made by each author. I do see a number of major issues. Major Issues: 1) RFC7684 is just for OSPFv2. How is the information carried for OSPFv3? We need a mechanism that works for IPv6 also. 2) In Sec 2.1, the Length is defined as variable and the figure includes additional sub-TLVs. Please clarify in the text what other sub-TLVs can be carried & how the length is calculated (yes, same as always - but clarity helps with interoperability). 3) Sec 2.2 "The size of the label range is determined by the number of Set Identifiers (SI) (section 1 of [I-D.ietf-bier-architecture]) that are used in the network. Each SI maps to a single label in the label range. The first label is for SI=0, the second label is for SI=1, etc.: This implies that there is no way to indicate only a label for SI=1 or a range for SI=1 to 3. That seems unfortunate and assumes that the BFR-ids are always allocated from SI=0 up. Is there a reason not to use some of the reserved bits to indicate the starting SI value? 4) Sec 2.3: The Tree type is a 1 octet value - that doesn't appear to have any IANA allocation or meaning clearly indicated - beyond the parenthetical that 0=SPF. Please fix this. 5) Sec 2.5: This section could benefit greatly from a diagram - showing the advertising router for a prefix, the ABR, and what is then flooded for the BIER MPLS Sub-TLV for the new areas. Minor: 4) Sec 2.3: "Label Range Base: A 3 octet field, where the 20 rightmost bits represent the first label in the label range." What about the top 4 bits? Are they Must Be Zero (MBZ)? How about making that explicit? Are they potential future flags?/ Thanks, Alia --001a114915964b220b055a1ef919 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have done an early AD review of draft-ietf-bier-osp= f-bier-extensions-07 in preparation for the publication request.
=
First, I would like to thank the many authors for their work= on this draft. Given that there are currently 7 authors listed, I'd re= commend appointing a few editors or otherwise reducing down to 5 or fewer. = Of course, I am also willing to consider extraordinary circumstances where = the shepherd can explain to me privately the deep technical contribution ma= de by each author.

I do see a number of major issu= es.

Major Issues:

1)=C2=A0 RFC7684 i= s just for OSPFv2.=C2=A0 How is the information carried for OSPFv3? We need= a mechanism that works for IPv6 also.

2) In Sec 2= .1, the Length is defined as variable and the figure includes additional su= b-TLVs. Please clarify in the text what other sub-TLVs can be carried &= how the length is calculated (yes, same as always - but clarity helps with= interoperability).

3) Sec 2.2=C2=A0"The size= of the label range is determined by the number of Set
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 Identifiers (SI) (section 1 of [I-D.ietf-bier-architecture]) that
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 are used in the network.=C2=A0 Each SI maps to a singl= e label in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 label range.=C2=A0 The first label i= s for SI=3D0, the second label is for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SI=3D1, etc.:=

This implies that there is no way to indicate onl= y a label for SI=3D1 or a range for SI=3D1 to 3. That seems unfortunate and= assumes that the BFR-ids are always allocated from SI=3D0 up.=C2=A0 =C2=A0= Is there a reason not to use some of the reserved bits to indicate the star= ting SI value?

4) Sec 2.3: The Tree type is a 1 oc= tet value - that doesn't appear to have any IANA allocation or meaning = clearly indicated - beyond the parenthetical that 0=3DSPF.=C2=A0 Please fix= this.

5) Sec 2.5: This section could benefit grea= tly from a diagram - showing the advertising router for a prefix, the ABR, = and what is then flooded for the BIER MPLS Sub-TLV for the new areas.=C2=A0= =C2=A0

Minor:=C2=A0

4= ) Sec 2.3:=C2=A0"Label Range Base: A 3 octet field, where the 20 right= most bits=C2=A0represent the first label in the label range."=C2=A0 Wh= at about the top 4 bits?=C2=A0 Are they Must Be Zero (MBZ)?=C2=A0 How about= making that explicit?=C2=A0 Are they potential future flags?/
Thanks,
Alia
--001a114915964b220b055a1ef919-- From nobody Tue Sep 26 15:13:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E531344B2; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:13:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tcCi5irBQeDz; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x231.google.com (mail-lf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8C6C134493; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id r17so5950543lff.6; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:13:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FqtFbwc8TFOkL22nIcUKuDueA7QnzdGzaJqHDMwK1HI=; b=jI7UfZpGZjo5t+TLO8TMPnSOE2vHkWkuIZsQyc0JX65a0/gjeudWtkDnngxeISe0NL NEriR9i5nPKqunjpj68qoBDaY35Y31Q6Mk/ByoWYl/NgEwZnv4QnLQk08fMkh8K5QWl+ l+bFaBvdKldKvihItzXI4NGCMhqH8lAdkv50KYIdW/l+6mHtCxX4JehsFlc6N21mMiC9 xbIq8wmCpmwAiBBR2PCjt0WSNZ4PL5rZ8AXBc5AhgSLybk1kbGN2efrCaKq9+r+m8Iu2 3W0hAYMJEdENr1kQwKaVmWeOrk62nTDbv1f+aPvKdo+dXpN9eyLjizwemYmo4j+CEyg5 Lisw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FqtFbwc8TFOkL22nIcUKuDueA7QnzdGzaJqHDMwK1HI=; b=oV5HS5QvJP6dZrNUbsi4e9wzlbP5UqFeEXEQqeQ8SQ9lwx7CBOoa1UiYOs59069+p1 E8+gVw4AO2aJzNiW1woz5xueUrj13gF/Pi5ydDAQqv14SGnj5AdZT5O8jRTOfemUaKjp HEnAWQ06qhkEdqZKpwS/wsVM6/vm+9MbMPDX21GaCSznv5w1iCq+2kxQ7gze4YweiRiv dAv8+25csp+UYCn5vdIkb/IyBF/NVqTWHqqUbyPdLSqGCNKq54L1yfddHOtvvMtbKU17 agrHtHGZAJYXcMR/M/nJIjlZdqsxbmqIjpLNhZVO/Ie2rf++LqrhlPW1JVgdNpevCgQc BhVg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiOzLuh+9AL6fIBdwA1Zyy0kTFVqy+NUnS3JzBtm2ZxLBLEZkRe jQybjF8BxpuZ23GSjtJTUeX71GpNnsRXMenZv3c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDkGkMXXjSqMRFWzTiTU+WypRgccCILTHUAKPiEgQtKQqBO85jc5uXpQg9KkvYJRcLXGpJWv9XN1GhnpNFp6q0= X-Received: by 10.25.205.149 with SMTP id d143mr3876299lfg.147.1506464019802; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:13:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.32.201 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:13:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:13:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: Alia Atlas Cc: "bier@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11412192c46e30055a1efc69" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:13:45 -0000 --001a11412192c46e30055a1efc69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Alia, thank you for raising the question of proper reference in regard to use of the OAM field. It is very good to have an opportunity to update BIER WG on work related to use of the Alternate Marking method in SFC and NVO3. But first my thought about the reference. We have Performance Measurement with Marking Method in BIER Layer where use of the OAM field is discussed. Perhaps this BIER WG draft could be used as reference in draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation in place of draft-chen-ippm- coloring-based-ipfpm-framework. And short update with a proposal to change naming. There two drafts that discuss applicability of the Alternate Marking method (AMM) in SFC and NVO3. Working on them we've realized that 'Mark' as name of the field to be used for AMM is more informative than 'OAM'. Hence the proposal to change the name of OAM field into Mark field. Regards, Greg On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08. > First, I would like to thank the authors & editors, Ice, Eric, Andrew, > Jeff, Sam, and Israel, as well as the WG for this solid document. > > I do have a couple major issues that need to be resolved ASAP so I can get > this document into IETF Last Call and scheduled for the telechat on Oct 26. > > Major: > > 1) First, this draft references draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-06 > for the only description of how the OAM bits are used. I think, based on a > very quick scan, that perhaps > draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-10 would work as well - but even that is > Experimental so would be a downref when this goes Standards Track. What > might be useful to say in this draft is: > > "'Specifying the values of the OAM bits or interpreting them is not done > by the BIER forwarding layer. Instead, an OAM layer can specify the value > to be used by a BFIR and process the received OAM values at a BFER. The > OAM bits MAY be set to any value by a BFIR; the OAM bits SHOULD NOT be > modified by BFRs as part of normal processing, unless instructed to by an > OAM process. The BFERs SHOULD provide a mechanism for reporting at least > the number of packets received in a row with each value. One example of > how such OAM bits can be used by different OAM processing is described in > [draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark]." > > I'm sure it can be wordsmithed better. The key points are to define where > the OAM bits can be set, where they can be modified, and that packets > counts based on the values should be provided in some fashion. Then the > reference to what the OAM layer does can be informative. Regardless of the > reference type, this type of normative language is needed. > > 2) In Sec 2.2.3, it says: "Rather, a new ethertype would have to be > assigned and > used. Specification of the layer 2 codepoints to be used for the > non-MPLS BIER encapsulation is outside the scope of this document." > > I thought that this document is asking for a standard EtherType for the > non-MPLS BIER encapsulation?? Certainly, I need text like that to request > the allocation from IEEE. > Please be clear that this document is asking for an IEEE Ethertype to be > allocated, > if that is, as I understood, the WG's intent. > > Nit: > a) Sec 3 bullet 6a: s/BFIR's BFIR-id/BFIR's BFR-id > > Regards, > Alia > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > --001a11412192c46e30055a1efc69 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Alia,
thank you for raising the question of proper = reference in regard to use of the OAM field. It is very good to have an opp= ortunity to update BIER WG on work related to use of the Alternate Marking = method in SFC and NVO3. But first my thought about the reference. We have <= a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam/">Perfo= rmance Measurement with Marking Method in BIER Layer=C2=A0where use of = the OAM field is discussed. Perhaps this BIER WG draft could be used as ref= erence in=C2=A0draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation in place of=C2=A0draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework.
And short update with a proposal = to change naming. There two drafts that discuss applicability of the Altern= ate Marking method (AMM) in SFC and NVO3. Working on them we've realize= d that 'Mark' as name of the field to be used for AMM is more infor= mative than 'OAM'. Hence the proposal to change the name of OAM fie= ld into Mark field.

<= /span>
Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Al= ia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:
As is customary, I have done my AD review = of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.=C2=A0 First, I would like to= thank the authors & editors, Ice, Eric, Andrew, Jeff, Sam, and Israel,= as well as the WG for this solid document.

I do h= ave a couple major issues that need to be resolved ASAP so I can get this d= ocument into IETF Last Call and scheduled for the telechat on Oct 26.
=

Major:

1) First, this draft re= ferences=C2=A0draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-06 f= or the only description of how the OAM bits are used.=C2=A0 I think, based = on a very quick scan, that perhaps=C2=A0
draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-10 w= ould work as well - but even that is Experimental so would be a downref whe= n this goes Standards Track.=C2=A0 =C2=A0What might be useful to say in thi= s draft is:

"'Specifying the values of the OAM = bits or interpreting them is not done by the BIER forwarding layer. Instead= , an OAM layer can specify the value to be used by a BFIR and process the r= eceived OAM values at a BFER.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The OAM bits MAY be set to any va= lue by a BFIR; the OAM bits SHOULD NOT be modified by BFRs as part of norma= l processing, unless instructed to by an OAM process. The BFERs SHOULD prov= ide a mechanism for reporting at least the number of packets received in a = row with each value.=C2=A0 One example of how such OAM bits can be used by = different OAM processing is described in [draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark]."<= br>

I'm sure it can be wordsmithed better.=C2=A0 The= key points are to define where the OAM bits can be set, where they can be = modified, and that packets counts based on the values should be provided in= some fashion.=C2=A0 Then the reference to what the OAM layer does can be i= nformative.=C2=A0 Regardless of the reference type, this type of normative = language is needed.

2) In Sec 2.2.3, it says: "Rat= her, a new ethertype would have to be assigned and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0used.=C2= =A0 Specification of the layer 2 codepoints to be used for the
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0non-MPLS BIER encapsulation is outside the scope of this document.&qu= ot;

I thought that this document is asking for a sta= ndard EtherType for the non-MPLS BIER encapsulation??=C2=A0 Certainly, I ne= ed text like that to request the allocation from IEEE.
Please be = clear that this document is asking for an IEEE Ethertype to be allocated,
if that is, as I understood, the WG's intent.

Nit:
a) Sec 3 bullet 6a:=C2=A0 s/BFIR's BFIR-id/BFIR= 's BFR-id
=C2=A0
Regards,
Alia

_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier


--001a11412192c46e30055a1efc69-- From nobody Tue Sep 26 15:15:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DBDE1344B2; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:15:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RPUiJXEXmE-s; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x233.google.com (mail-wm0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAAC613306F; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x233.google.com with SMTP id b195so12275965wmb.5; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:15:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=16vZ0BtcJsRpuYczFA/4G2wcbJ+If8wSzRjIzoEJhjw=; b=bjC7VIfoMS/jgiV5kYWZBOyTVEmgLZtUHwuVhEbrvd90CUrWIcUaL9Vs9D2jCrFupm GmEoEvieBMx5YjgxkuViHuou9RpJTyt7E4hFOi0Z+SoBqqb423dycJJE2vHiei9iTRny n/acTvcDj75cwfCBiJb2El375iMbSMEdQQ/EMUZpfPC1iEcdMJxhUjFkQgBhoOvsIVXy 3S5tVsFtTEfGdIGDmomp0q9tSxCd/q1szc8meqd8MAgliz/QIQ0xNyOSYwckleD7xbta 6U12VloyHQHE9kVfh+dMpE9YSXd2Mif5s7Sm8NzOUnyz2biI1TpkkenDOrhRpOTUkTNb BsTg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=16vZ0BtcJsRpuYczFA/4G2wcbJ+If8wSzRjIzoEJhjw=; b=i4uaAsn1fs2LGQ69/a6Y4FuKU3NC+odvyWU8ijV0+JFgkwsxBwnYgp3r5ILjb+7d6R fO2ZNxsMWCMpV21uQlKlN+2++OvCLruBlve6ALL3VMzipl8cpdQddjstivLyxBqt4RyO qey5dak/as8CZKMv5jS9wc+0W0DNmOlgxClHmwKdEezZFouHWtaIl2qsrycwbIypBv55 e9TRwCkgjEuJz/FLMBsX1qNjNoJCC30mBugqNL1P8vIEKDBfJhy+Wu/9jxZxSIO+Tm/C TUYKwhUi6exENdPTqcUUwtpIXuR2kQVX/nFwKImIu88oCbDRKN4myts8P8uplKQuuy0S MXuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgPKwQUULbZfTeyP37KqqYDuJstLZgdCsOLDBcjXEIbQDlt0FJu KPEoohAFkaAlTsjVqe0NiT20pqKtgfbg28O/rHM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAhmrSTHiIRIE1UD1fJzZyQHpQft1gRStQDljrytLxqFMxDWx9LpM4p7k639yVNNF01nHOUH4TdeOxodw53VAU= X-Received: by 10.28.54.101 with SMTP id d98mr3972204wma.90.1506464100055; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:15:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.136.153 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:14:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Alia Atlas Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 18:14:59 -0400 Message-ID: To: Tony Przygienda Cc: "bier@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11436bb28d024b055a1f010f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:15:04 -0000 --001a11436bb28d024b055a1f010f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Tony, On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 6:09 PM, Tony Przygienda wrote: > There is a -09 version pending where Eric already took care of all my nits > in the shepherd writedown ... This can go in. > Excellent :-) > My only observation here is that I'm confused ;-) since I assumed the > EtherType is gated on architecture RFC and nothing else but if we want to > request EtherType in this doc specifically I'm fine as well of course ... > I believe that we do need to explicity request an EtherType in this document. The architecture draft doesn't mention Ethertype at all - and the details of the encapsulation and reasoning for needing it are in this document - except for the "out of scope"' part. Regards, Alia > --- tony > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > >> As is customary, I have done my AD review of >> draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08. First, I would like to thank the >> authors & editors, Ice, Eric, Andrew, Jeff, Sam, and Israel, as well as the >> WG for this solid document. >> >> I do have a couple major issues that need to be resolved ASAP so I can >> get this document into IETF Last Call and scheduled for the telechat on Oct >> 26. >> >> Major: >> >> 1) First, this draft references draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-06 >> for the only description of how the OAM bits are used. I think, based on a >> very quick scan, that perhaps >> draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-10 would work as well - but even that is >> Experimental so would be a downref when this goes Standards Track. What >> might be useful to say in this draft is: >> >> "'Specifying the values of the OAM bits or interpreting them is not done >> by the BIER forwarding layer. Instead, an OAM layer can specify the value >> to be used by a BFIR and process the received OAM values at a BFER. The >> OAM bits MAY be set to any value by a BFIR; the OAM bits SHOULD NOT be >> modified by BFRs as part of normal processing, unless instructed to by an >> OAM process. The BFERs SHOULD provide a mechanism for reporting at least >> the number of packets received in a row with each value. One example of >> how such OAM bits can be used by different OAM processing is described in >> [draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark]." >> >> I'm sure it can be wordsmithed better. The key points are to define >> where the OAM bits can be set, where they can be modified, and that packets >> counts based on the values should be provided in some fashion. Then the >> reference to what the OAM layer does can be informative. Regardless of the >> reference type, this type of normative language is needed. >> >> 2) In Sec 2.2.3, it says: "Rather, a new ethertype would have to be >> assigned and >> used. Specification of the layer 2 codepoints to be used for the >> non-MPLS BIER encapsulation is outside the scope of this document." >> >> I thought that this document is asking for a standard EtherType for the >> non-MPLS BIER encapsulation?? Certainly, I need text like that to request >> the allocation from IEEE. >> Please be clear that this document is asking for an IEEE Ethertype to be >> allocated, >> if that is, as I understood, the WG's intent. >> >> Nit: >> a) Sec 3 bullet 6a: s/BFIR's BFIR-id/BFIR's BFR-id >> >> Regards, >> Alia >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BIER mailing list >> BIER@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> >> > --001a11436bb28d024b055a1f010f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tony,

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 6:09 PM, Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@= gmail.com> wrote:
There is a -09 version pending where Eric already took care of all= my nits in the shepherd writedown ... This can go in.=C2=A0

Excellent :-)=C2=A0
=C2=A0
My only observation = here is that I'm confused ;-) since I assumed the EtherType is gated on= architecture RFC and nothing else but if we want to request EtherType in t= his doc specifically I'm fine as well of course ...=C2=A0

I believe that we do need to explicity reque= st an EtherType in this document.=C2=A0 The architecture draft doesn't = mention Ethertype at all - and the details of the encapsulation and reasoni= ng for needing it are in this document - except for the "out of scope&= quot;' part.

Regards,
Alia=C2=A0

=C2=A0
--- tony=C2=A0

On Tue, Sep 26, 20= 17 at 2:05 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:
As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-= encapsulation-08.=C2=A0 First, I would like to thank the authors &= editors, Ice, Eric, Andrew, Jeff, Sam, and Israel, as well as the WG for t= his solid document.

I do have a couple major issue= s that need to be resolved ASAP so I can get this document into IETF Last C= all and scheduled for the telechat on Oct 26.

Majo= r:

1) First, this draft references=C2=A0draft-chen= -ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-06 for the only description of ho= w the OAM bits are used.=C2=A0 I think, based on a very quick scan, that pe= rhaps=C2=A0
draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-10 would work as well - but even = that is Experimental so would be a downref when this goes Standards Track.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0What might be useful to say in this draft is:

"'Specifying the values of the OAM bits or interpreting them is= not done by the BIER forwarding layer. Instead, an OAM layer can specify t= he value to be used by a BFIR and process the received OAM values at a BFER= .=C2=A0 =C2=A0The OAM bits MAY be set to any value by a BFIR; the OAM bits = SHOULD NOT be modified by BFRs as part of normal processing, unless instruc= ted to by an OAM process. The BFERs SHOULD provide a mechanism for reportin= g at least the number of packets received in a row with each value.=C2=A0 O= ne example of how such OAM bits can be used by different OAM processing is = described in [draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark]."

I'= ;m sure it can be wordsmithed better.=C2=A0 The key points are to define wh= ere the OAM bits can be set, where they can be modified, and that packets c= ounts based on the values should be provided in some fashion.=C2=A0 Then th= e reference to what the OAM layer does can be informative.=C2=A0 Regardless= of the reference type, this type of normative language is needed.

2) In Sec 2.2.3, it says: "Rather, a new ethertype would h= ave to be assigned and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0used.=C2=A0 Specification of the lay= er 2 codepoints to be used for the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0non-MPLS BIER encapsulat= ion is outside the scope of this document."

I t= hought that this document is asking for a standard EtherType for the non-MP= LS BIER encapsulation??=C2=A0 Certainly, I need text like that to request t= he allocation from IEEE.
Please be clear that this document is as= king for an IEEE Ethertype to be allocated,
if that is, as I unde= rstood, the WG's intent.

Nit:
a) Sec= 3 bullet 6a:=C2=A0 s/BFIR's BFIR-id/BFIR's BFR-id
=C2=A0
<= /div>
Regards,
Alia

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BIER mailing list
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--001a11436bb28d024b055a1f010f-- From nobody Tue Sep 26 15:17:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE6813306F; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:17:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ymQ8qum3fz6H; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:17:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com (mail-wm0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E77E1344B2; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id m72so17617266wmc.0; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=om3W1OzfA3uxcQm0WuHTxY5d6ETEtnrFgktre4KFyic=; b=GdAv/raZpQ4z+52t1qgJG3PFXbKsgSfFSgPdsNmKW08sgU5dhSTdMpxvx53t9jThr7 j0uCYqRxSoyFRCkkIoowIb5DUAAmEwWO2kxWQ3i18KuGXz7yu9yMcPN2jwgGtlEEJXsv YyVYt7YD8k37YkR0DsNz7qlfN2rTt12my79hBisckc9DGpdqJ3ZfLRa6KLyj4HlU/d4q DsdOzgYAPgS+D+Wyb/52fuI6ftON0mA1hzd9h+eHf6c8Crw/Ul5IEK2w6HXkf4e8m7Qs 1tsogGAk5FCPRs4PQbDDYBV82qvcv5FO5EiCsPSrZhJIkzD3rjDrd/ZXRPsYgQoy31r0 euPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=om3W1OzfA3uxcQm0WuHTxY5d6ETEtnrFgktre4KFyic=; b=VBGufzWOAxzHG9X3fargXipess5Xz2WXOESi9BJUAajvsy33EP1jlz1N+CrIC2loje yBgxcUg7fKXoruT7FPudbPClXyTqivGL7Eyi2VIR9FSUImxSVnjUeIQRMIFdSu7Ngy8J RO5aLJWLvAfzkc6aFuUugTo4MCenIW/W4qPa4oU5bbYmmcp5CXWNH9GVaMo5ZnY1MT39 198HOKDSlLN7AJLO6rMcU7fUxStKi/KO3nALUIaXMJCTfCdGXEsCIHgNW1jdEdzltoHd zKQL0ouIFfrmfEHTTkFPF6szxJmYvWxYCkAPkoTNpAebHC3xCzT0jilfAXiSRUiCNb3i OcYA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUirhOYGOLPc5DmfbA0ZcdqgAFt9tfDlrTI8MjIYsgAf2vO5Rwd7 Q4l+prR4SzxfmKkdYn2B6MuOtXyTnpq856UuV+o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBFv0YsgoSJk4iwAuRU/JTIDlnyAQO1H530FMw72P+X/SCvVgqIdAJ31YtIMueeKkLuaTBWpPON5rIVqvJ/QA4= X-Received: by 10.28.18.210 with SMTP id 201mr3837179wms.135.1506464246706; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:17:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.136.153 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:17:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Alia Atlas Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 18:17:26 -0400 Message-ID: To: Greg Mirsky Cc: "bier@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145b02c4ab7ac055a1f0af5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:17:32 -0000 --001a1145b02c4ab7ac055a1f0af5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Greg, Thanks - I went looking at the work in IPPM and not at the drafts in BIER. >From a quick glance, draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam does seem like a better reference. Regards, Alia On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Alia, > thank you for raising the question of proper reference in regard to use of > the OAM field. It is very good to have an opportunity to update BIER WG on > work related to use of the Alternate Marking method in SFC and NVO3. But > first my thought about the reference. We have Performance Measurement > with Marking Method in BIER Layer > where use of > the OAM field is discussed. Perhaps this BIER WG draft could be used as > reference in draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation in place of > draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework. > And short update with a proposal to change naming. There two drafts that > discuss applicability of the Alternate Marking method (AMM) in SFC and > NVO3. Working on them we've realized that 'Mark' as name of the field to be > used for AMM is more informative than 'OAM'. Hence the proposal to change > the name of OAM field into Mark field. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > >> As is customary, I have done my AD review of >> draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08. First, I would like to thank the >> authors & editors, Ice, Eric, Andrew, Jeff, Sam, and Israel, as well as the >> WG for this solid document. >> >> I do have a couple major issues that need to be resolved ASAP so I can >> get this document into IETF Last Call and scheduled for the telechat on Oct >> 26. >> >> Major: >> >> 1) First, this draft references draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-06 >> for the only description of how the OAM bits are used. I think, based on a >> very quick scan, that perhaps >> draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-10 would work as well - but even that is >> Experimental so would be a downref when this goes Standards Track. What >> might be useful to say in this draft is: >> >> "'Specifying the values of the OAM bits or interpreting them is not done >> by the BIER forwarding layer. Instead, an OAM layer can specify the value >> to be used by a BFIR and process the received OAM values at a BFER. The >> OAM bits MAY be set to any value by a BFIR; the OAM bits SHOULD NOT be >> modified by BFRs as part of normal processing, unless instructed to by an >> OAM process. The BFERs SHOULD provide a mechanism for reporting at least >> the number of packets received in a row with each value. One example of >> how such OAM bits can be used by different OAM processing is described in >> [draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark]." >> >> I'm sure it can be wordsmithed better. The key points are to define >> where the OAM bits can be set, where they can be modified, and that packets >> counts based on the values should be provided in some fashion. Then the >> reference to what the OAM layer does can be informative. Regardless of the >> reference type, this type of normative language is needed. >> >> 2) In Sec 2.2.3, it says: "Rather, a new ethertype would have to be >> assigned and >> used. Specification of the layer 2 codepoints to be used for the >> non-MPLS BIER encapsulation is outside the scope of this document." >> >> I thought that this document is asking for a standard EtherType for the >> non-MPLS BIER encapsulation?? Certainly, I need text like that to request >> the allocation from IEEE. >> Please be clear that this document is asking for an IEEE Ethertype to be >> allocated, >> if that is, as I understood, the WG's intent. >> >> Nit: >> a) Sec 3 bullet 6a: s/BFIR's BFIR-id/BFIR's BFR-id >> >> Regards, >> Alia >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BIER mailing list >> BIER@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> >> > --001a1145b02c4ab7ac055a1f0af5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Greg,

Thanks - I went looking at the= work in IPPM and not at the drafts in BIER.
From a quick glance,= =C2=A0draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam does seem like a better reference.

Regards,
Alia

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Greg Mir= sky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Alia,
thank you for raising the ques= tion of proper reference in regard to use of the OAM field. It is very good= to have an opportunity to update BIER WG on work related to use of the Alt= ernate Marking method in SFC and NVO3. But first my thought about the refer= ence. We have Performance Measurement with Marking Method in = BIER Layer=C2=A0where use of the OAM field is discussed. Perhaps this B= IER WG draft could be used as reference in=C2=A0draft-ietf-bier-mpls-e= ncapsulation in place of=C2=A0draft-chen-i= ppm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework.
And short update with a proposal to change naming. Th= ere two drafts that discuss applicability of the Alternate Marking method (= AMM) in SFC and NVO3. Working on them we've realized that 'Mark'= ; as name of the field to be used for AMM is more informative than 'OAM= '. Hence the proposal to change the name of OAM field into Mark field.<= /span>

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Alia = Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:
As is customary,= I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.=C2= =A0 First, I would like to thank the authors & editors, Ice, Eric, Andr= ew, Jeff, Sam, and Israel, as well as the WG for this solid document.
=

I do have a couple major issues that need to be resolve= d ASAP so I can get this document into IETF Last Call and scheduled for the= telechat on Oct 26.

Major:

1) First, this draft references=C2=A0draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based= -ipfpm-framework-06 for the only description of how the OAM bits are used.= =C2=A0 I think, based on a very quick scan, that perhaps=C2=A0
draft-i= etf-ippm-alt-mark-10 would work as well - but even that is Experimental so = would be a downref when this goes Standards Track.=C2=A0 =C2=A0What might b= e useful to say in this draft is:

"'Specifying = the values of the OAM bits or interpreting them is not done by the BIER for= warding layer. Instead, an OAM layer can specify the value to be used by a = BFIR and process the received OAM values at a BFER.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The OAM bit= s MAY be set to any value by a BFIR; the OAM bits SHOULD NOT be modified by= BFRs as part of normal processing, unless instructed to by an OAM process.= The BFERs SHOULD provide a mechanism for reporting at least the number of = packets received in a row with each value.=C2=A0 One example of how such OA= M bits can be used by different OAM processing is described in [draft-ietf-= ippm-alt-mark]."

I'm sure it can be wordsmi= thed better.=C2=A0 The key points are to define where the OAM bits can be s= et, where they can be modified, and that packets counts based on the values= should be provided in some fashion.=C2=A0 Then the reference to what the O= AM layer does can be informative.=C2=A0 Regardless of the reference type, t= his type of normative language is needed.

2) In Sec 2.2= .3, it says: "Rather, a new ethertype would have to be assigned and=C2=A0 =C2=A0used.=C2=A0 Specification of the layer 2 codepoints to be use= d for the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0non-MPLS BIER encapsulation is outside the scope = of this document."

I thought that this document= is asking for a standard EtherType for the non-MPLS BIER encapsulation??= =C2=A0 Certainly, I need text like that to request the allocation from IEEE= .
Please be clear that this document is asking for an IEEE Ethert= ype to be allocated,
if that is, as I understood, the WG's in= tent.

Nit:
a) Sec 3 bullet 6a:=C2=A0 s/B= FIR's BFIR-id/BFIR's BFR-id
=C2=A0
Regards,
Alia

_____________________________________= __________
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--001a1145b02c4ab7ac055a1f0af5-- From nobody Tue Sep 26 16:09:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D0CE134499; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 16:09:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5zYqF698LnnA; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 16:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com (mail-wm0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53CB413202D; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 16:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id m72so12598585wmc.1; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 16:09:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=XMFJjiAeFHmH8hcn3QUGUsigL/tZeZ3VKuFBrzak85Q=; b=MpahHf6/7yK76hAL0+WDn0Qk0fG7W0/zFGAw5CbqMo1khxbxlhORZy9uRVd0Vjj3xr vCi8xr/bkmb2wi1ozqDA3+sjGTCmfQchMCwjSeiRPqC4B7aTMrn+IVznbDqQLZzWkII/ OChg12OtYQm9dVFe16Y4sA6HhxUor+Ees463ndYT9Lw8qNrLrYkIfKUKFMuPmXwOolcl jUma79Bld83wQEUhNtUMfLnJ6lXxPsf9Pri/Y5e4CgwQEhsl0EKS3vqZfbXoecGT30Dm 73F+zJ14OcFiK60RttUctjXULtEviYaBchJH46Ffaf5zs7j58rL84BvmsuI/OKSN102R qNug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=XMFJjiAeFHmH8hcn3QUGUsigL/tZeZ3VKuFBrzak85Q=; b=B2PdP7Oefdmy1CQhmrtIuy+6kIlIt/tgw8lU6XPcOZr8msU4p/9srG3KNoGv9btzry uxdjJoGtaaskgF33CuvHOlQW2xdwQZSI0PeX2kJ6xGM+5mWCis0HbdCMwiBwQQrkzSfX Qs45JYFZ+kHQmHI2QBKy0zyFBlJzsiAVK6Ub5Jlovv1PXc3c815VXhMuMHecNJ+vY87p TvNybYCB03JlbNyOMDG+ZxQh+MJPJs470HAtB+94BWLOpA8jz0v5FXajigelkvLo/T15 PWquleDojvTzy94B2D7OauuatUNoxcvqUtpzibh1lp/UL/p70oTFEpWF99UUiOvwImXQ 4KVw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhVi4rGboyrkrE7vdIs/D4O8+d01WikudvsqeypBh4nrMyDmuRb JtsBA0Smv3m/kBctegPbBKOfWuwSYVKejJq2jbjQI67N X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDD7AXP3JMoY5/qpO4asDit9Jf9edYxIbF5Z3iAoPrl1mXJTqKLUx3t5oeDMwZAyEoWvo9VHNi3SE6s6s8f03k= X-Received: by 10.28.18.210 with SMTP id 201mr3896404wms.135.1506467351476; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 16:09:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.136.153 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 16:09:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Alia Atlas Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 19:09:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: "bier@ietf.org" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145b02c59be6c055a1fc3e4" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] early AD review of draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-05 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 23:09:18 -0000 --001a1145b02c59be6c055a1fc3e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I have done an early AD review of draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-05 in preparation for receiving a request to publish it. First, I would like to thank the authors - Les, Tony, Sam and Jeffrey - for their work on this document. In my ideal timing, this draft would be updated and ready for IETF Last Call by Oct 5 so that it could reach the IESG telechat on Oct 26 with draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation and draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions. It would be great to have 4 drafts approved for RFC publication - or even some RFCs! If we can't make this timeline, then it'll add at least a month or more. I do see a number of issues to be addressed. Major: 1) Sec 4.1: "At present, IS-IS support for a given BIER domain/sub-domain is limited to a single area - or to the IS-IS L2 sub-domain." Why is there this limitation? Having just reviewed the ospf draft, the detail needed to handle inter-area seems straightforward there. It'd be a pity to have different support in ISIS and OSPF... I didn't see anything about such a limitation in the bier-architecture or bier-mpls-encapsulation drafts, so I'm startled to see it here. At the very least, some explanation of why IS-IS can't handle inter-area and the implications for deployments is needed. In Sec 4.2, this is enforced by "BIER sub-TLVs MUST NOT be included when a prefix reachability advertisement is leaked between levels." but I don't see any reasoning for why the BIER sub-TLVs couldn't be included... 2) Sec 5.1: This section has concern about restricting the advertisement of BIER information in IS-IS for scalability - but it doesn't discuss at all when a router would stop advertising the BIER sub-TLVs. It feels like the section is hunting for a bit of a manageability or operational considerations section. I'm not comfortable with the interoperability issues posed by not indicating what triggers should cause advertisements or withdrawals. Receiving an advertisement from a BFER seems like a reasonable trigger to me, since it indicates an active receiver for the . 3) Sec 5.5 contradicts the last paragraph in Sec 2.1.1.1 in draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 which says" Note that in practice, labels only have to be assigned if they are going to be used. If a particular BIER domain supports BSLs 256 and 512, but some SD, say SD 1, only uses BSL 256, then it is not necessary to assign labels that correspond to the combination of SD 1 and BSL 512." 4) Sec 5.6: "A valid BFR-id MUST be unique within the flooding scope of the BIER advertisments." This doesn't leave scope for expanding to inter-area in the future because the issue is not the flooding scope but rather the distribution. 5) Sec 6.1: " The sub-TLV advertises a single combination followed by optional sub-sub-TLVs as described in the following sections." The figure and field descriptions do not include the MT-ID. There is clearly the reserved octet intended for that?? 6) Sec 6.2: This section needs to clearly define the relationship between the labels and the Set Index in the specified . It's also unclear whether it is better to advertise all the labels ever needed or be able to advertise only labels for a particular sequential number of SIs. The restriction that only one sub-sub-TLV with the same BitStringLength makes that impossible (but so does the lack of explicit starting SI). 7) Sec 6.3: The values for the Length & Tree Type field need to be clearer after the figure. Also, is Tree Type an IANA-managed field?? I don't see it in the IANA considerations. Ca it be different between IS-IS and OSPF? Minor: a) Sec 2: "Invalid BFR-id: Unassigned BFR-id, consisting of all 0s." A clearer definition might be "Invalid BFR-ID: The special value of 0 - used to indicate that there is not a valid BFR-ID" The same comment applies to "Invalid BMP". b) Sec 5.7: Please add some text about dampening the reports of misconfiguration - as usual. Nits: i) Sec 5.1: "supported bitstring lengths MLs " All the other BIER drafts use the acronym BSL (BitStringLength). Consistency is frequently useful for clarity. ii) Sec 6.2: "Length: 1 octet." Please specify the value! Regards, Alia --001a1145b02c59be6c055a1fc3e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have done an early AD review of draft-ietf-bier-isi= s-extensions-05 in preparation for receiving a request to publish it. First= , I would like to thank the authors - Les, Tony, Sam and Jeffrey - for thei= r work on this document.

In my ideal timing, this = draft would be updated and ready for IETF Last Call by Oct 5 so that it cou= ld reach the IESG telechat on Oct 26 with=C2=A0draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsu= lation and=C2=A0draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions. It would be great to = have 4 drafts approved for RFC publication - or even some RFCs!=C2=A0 If we= can't make this timeline, then it'll add at least a month or more.=

I do see a number of issues to be addressed.=C2= =A0=C2=A0

Major:

1) Sec 4= .1:=C2=A0"At present, IS-IS support for a given BIER domain/sub-domain= is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0limited to a single area - or to the IS-IS L2 sub-domai= n."
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Why is there this limitation?=C2=A0 Having = just reviewed the ospf draft, the detail needed to handle inter-area seems = straightforward there.=C2=A0 It'd be a pity to have different support i= n ISIS and OSPF...
I didn't see anything about such a limitat= ion in the bier-architecture or bier-mpls-encapsulation drafts, so I'm = startled to see it here.

At the very least, some e= xplanation of why IS-IS can't handle inter-area and the implications fo= r deployments is needed.

In Sec 4.2, this is enfor= ced by "BIER sub-TLVs MUST NOT be included when a prefix reachability<= br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 advertisement is leaked between levels." but I= don't see any reasoning for why the BIER sub-TLVs couldn't be incl= uded...

2) Sec 5.1: This section has concern about= restricting the advertisement of BIER information in IS-IS for scalability= - but it doesn't discuss at all when a router would stop advertising t= he BIER sub-TLVs.=C2=A0 It feels like the section is hunting for a bit of a= manageability or operational considerations section.=C2=A0 I'm not com= fortable with the interoperability issues posed by not indicating what trig= gers should cause advertisements or withdrawals.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Receiving an a= dvertisement from a BFER seems like a reasonable trigger to me, since it in= dicates an active receiver for the <MT, SD>.

3) Sec 5.5 contradicts the last paragraph in Sec 2.1.1.1 in draft-ietf-bie= r-mpls-encapsulation-08 which says" Note that in practice, labels only= have to be assigned if they are
=C2=A0 =C2=A0going to be used.=C2=A0 If= a particular BIER domain supports BSLs 256 and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0512, but so= me SD, say SD 1, only uses BSL 256, then it is not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0necessar= y to assign labels that correspond to the combination of SD 1
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0and BSL 512."

4) Sec 5.6:=C2=A0"A val= id BFR-id MUST be unique within the flooding scope of the BIER advertisment= s."=C2=A0 This doesn't leave scope for expanding to inter-area in = the future because the issue is not the flooding scope but rather the distr= ibution.

5) Sec 6.1:=C2=A0" The sub-TLV adver= tises a single <MT,SD> combination followed by
=C2=A0 =C2=A0option= al sub-sub-TLVs as described in the following sections."
The figure and field descriptions do not include the MT-ID.=C2=A0 There is= clearly the reserved octet intended for that??=C2=A0=C2=A0

<= /div>
6) Sec 6.2:=C2=A0 This section needs to clearly define the relati= onship between the labels and the Set Index in the specified <MT, SD>= .=C2=A0 It's also unclear whether it is better to advertise all the lab= els ever needed or be able to advertise only labels for a particular sequen= tial number of SIs.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The restriction that only one sub-sub-TLV w= ith the same BitStringLength makes that impossible (but so does the lack of= explicit starting SI).

7) Sec 6.3: The values for= the Length & Tree Type field need to be clearer after the figure.=C2= =A0 Also, is Tree Type an IANA-managed field??=C2=A0 I don't see it in = the IANA considerations.=C2=A0 Ca it be different between IS-IS and OSPF?


Minor:=C2=A0

a) Sec 2:= =C2=A0"Invalid BFR-id: Unassigned BFR-id, consisting of all 0s."<= /div>
A clearer definition might be "Invalid BFR-ID: The special v= alue of 0 - used to indicate that there is not a valid BFR-ID"=C2=A0 T= he same comment applies to "Invalid BMP".

b) Sec 5.7:=C2=A0 Please add some text about dampening the reports of mis= configuration - as usual.


Nits:

i) Sec 5.1:=C2=A0"supported bitstring=C2=A0lengt= hs MLs "=C2=A0 All the other BIER drafts use the acronym=C2=A0 BSL (Bi= tStringLength).=C2=A0 Consistency is frequently useful for clarity.

ii) Sec 6.2:=C2=A0"Length: 1 octet."=C2=A0 = =C2=A0Please specify the value!

Regards,
Alia
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X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXmH5FPdzs2iH2ylP55mjZT00nk8fdEApB28Xy+gBqG1/0Qn1e2 CtdkzetG3mwa2ArTPHiDTonhDvXzAhamfbEyrPWg6w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBPgA2VfXWqE3IRBaMapepqcVhnWJDmJdZl1KDjjsktexi9LuTfAcOWLdpmtZoOYDX/P+XLc+VbZ5uYV0rsZ6s= X-Received: by 10.107.132.226 with SMTP id o95mr247522ioi.79.1506488883965; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:08:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Israel Meilik References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIKt48Um9h7lqf7j7tgr/etI7wrMaJZLfXw Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 08:08:03 +0300 Message-ID: <80787eea9a7b65b641a330d3ea3f4ca1@mail.gmail.com> To: Tony Przygienda , draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org, bier@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113ec01cc9bf10055a24c680" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] IPR disclosures for draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 05:08:07 -0000 --001a113ec01cc9bf10055a24c680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Tony, I am unaware of any undisclosed IPR applicable to this draft. Regards, Israel *From:* Tony Przygienda [mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:10 AM *To:* draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org; bier@ietf.org *Subject:* IPR disclosures for draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation To all authors of *draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation* I need IPR disclosure confirmation in full conformance with BCP 78 and BCP 79 for document shepherd writedown, please --- tony --001a113ec01cc9bf10055a24c680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi= Tony,

=C2=A0

I am unaware of = any undisclosed IPR applicable to this draft.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Israel

=C2=A0

From: Tony Przygienda [mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017= 12:10 AM
To: draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org; bier@ietf.org
Subject: IPR disclosures for= draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation

=C2=A0=

To all authors of dra= ft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation

=C2=A0

I = need IPR disclosure confirmation in full conformance with BCP 78 and BCP 79= for document shepherd writedown, please=C2=A0

=C2=A0

--- tony

--001a113ec01cc9bf10055a24c680-- From nobody Tue Sep 26 22:50:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCC2E132076; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:50:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bGSuw_6JYrlm; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x230.google.com (mail-io0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56137124B18; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x230.google.com with SMTP id h66so14686478ioh.11; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:50:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VkAlWmzQsHihVjppOVceXBucqOsK4JjuvcQbaZ3SI9Y=; b=uUmxKOs4I0M44Qsotl73hRcdMmg3TujUfyq9zxtol1OQyI2kMLgPRwOCuzTZdZxTip 0jb7Qrf+jo2aNK784qMKnbrr0yoLcHYj+FViddgpp7CrgpzpwKqcfw4XXj1EORIiXNhD ClK+l4lOAOfylocGG68hPYntOiLrw32HWP368O6kSIOlVJneAlqgvyIfnutnhFkaRgR8 n7wLToSjUXQRK378p+nLrbi3vHo88/bDHoFAhnq0ZMZ/oxpkyyeSs2QnphJ0hCPqdx1P pavAWjfZqs5vuNu5xkNciA7OV88hBLTFZSbcOgfZmYZlV3bpz1ZMnnqJ06UglKloVa8/ rbIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VkAlWmzQsHihVjppOVceXBucqOsK4JjuvcQbaZ3SI9Y=; b=Lib/OooKl9Hnmp4rE78I1z6wnI/d/YERZltpzEcoPXKuudgNgRqV5mBMOUhxg+Eumt lQYmzuNdm6ZNbH+PavXrfqsIgy/UIWIZlioZ/v6jQr5d5UvSyyJjwqeaVUD1mQSmoRMl 1hAVfQy/xImjBV522FFJIi5STfTAN47HLRsHAjmQL4ZzwWXL/fVCLMJg9rYe7iyDzy6X KYKLXnARzm3FihSrS+M+OE5QqTGONnfrQcsSAAGea8U5K3HI0tII+hADcuGag2gkU1CB Vflgf4K9ufv86AfPspsO6LJgXWVJRj04NY5soYtPcnazA5vii4frVNufGSkGOoNNQ64O O6FQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXn/+DFHrk4Dztb/+VAgWyo9gV6BGP8QdJihHaVG/ucuzKlm6B9 rrQ8wuxos07af2DWm3p1J8/5La8Exaza3go2x4Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAotfJ1KZtxiMlvVt7JyIXWfXhMd9uzdtxa6FLKHe22xSoV407vHY6UHu4Fi+Ttrt2T+KwSCb4BMri6mUBneKI= X-Received: by 10.107.55.86 with SMTP id e83mr362823ioa.230.1506491437637; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:50:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.152.79 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:50:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <80787eea9a7b65b641a330d3ea3f4ca1@mail.gmail.com> References: <80787eea9a7b65b641a330d3ea3f4ca1@mail.gmail.com> From: Sam Aldrin Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:50:37 -0700 Message-ID: To: Israel Meilik Cc: Tony Przygienda , draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org, "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114ab84aff6255055a255e45" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] IPR disclosures for draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 05:50:40 -0000 --001a114ab84aff6255055a255e45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this draft. -sam On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Israel Meilik wrote: > Hi Tony, > > > > I am unaware of any undisclosed IPR applicable to this draft. > > > > Regards, > > Israel > > > > *From:* Tony Przygienda [mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:10 AM > *To:* draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org; bier@ietf.org > *Subject:* IPR disclosures for draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation > > > > To all authors of *draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation* > > > > I need IPR disclosure confirmation in full conformance with BCP 78 and BCP > 79 for document shepherd writedown, please > > > > --- tony > --001a114ab84aff6255055a255e45 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this draft.
-sam

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Israel Meilik <israel.meilik@broadcom.com> wrote:

Hi Tony,

=C2=A0

I am unaware of any undisclosed IPR applicable to this draft.<= /span>

=C2=A0

Regards,<= /p>

Israel

=C2=A0

From: Tony Przygienda [mail= to:tonysietf@gmail= .com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:10 AM
To: draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org; bier@ietf.orgSubject: IPR disclosures for draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulati= on

=C2=A0

To all authors of draft-ietf-bier= -mpls-encapsulation

=C2=A0

I need IPR disclosure confirmation in fu= ll conformance with BCP 78 and BCP 79 for document shepherd writedown, plea= se=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

--- tony


--001a114ab84aff6255055a255e45-- From nobody Wed Sep 27 05:24:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D30E7134A31; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 05:24:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-bier-architecture@ietf.org, Greg Shepherd , bier-chairs@ietf.org, gjshep@gmail.com, bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.62.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150651505685.25015.12139010927302537018.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 05:24:16 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-i?= =?utf-8?q?etf-bier-architecture-08=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 12:24:17 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Update: While it is now clearer why this doc is not informational, I agree with the gen-art review (Thanks Dan!) that is could be made even clearer what the experiment is/why this is experimental and not PS. Old ballot text: I also initially expected that this document should be informational because it specifies an architecture, however, while reading I realized that is rather specifies abstract mechanisms and a data model. So it's basically an abstract protocol spec without defining the on the wire format. Maybe it would be helpful to describe the content of this document this way, rather than speaking of an architecture. However, I guess the word architecture is rather board though. Thanks for a well-written doc; especially the ECMP part is very clear! From nobody Wed Sep 27 07:42:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF76134CA2; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 07:42:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QzLM3nCXzAPc; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 07:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM03-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2nam03on0138.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.42.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E77C7134C9E; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 07:34:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=LMWBKXk7mnejFNNJ3LSxKC0lpbmJLnDB6O/946jJugU=; b=jFPB6tdASFLhOBAGMEpYV6ZP1WZV7hc6m7k5gBO4Mxpmkck5IL3RLb6+SJSVzJpH4On4MHViBYxT/Y7pZiIF3w4FxzVyzZOyMnAjpD/WuhQmZqW27mP+cEJ6wXW71EWWHeNVqMWPmK4uSrXKyOA1useMGKRz1TNfNWX1kBJTI80= Authentication-Results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=erosen@juniper.net; Received: from [172.29.34.134] (66.129.241.14) by BY2PR05MB2294.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.166.112.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.77.5; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 14:34:11 +0000 To: Alia Atlas , Tony Przygienda Cc: "bier@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org References: From: Eric C Rosen Message-ID: <537a50fe-d929-64ae-28ff-ea781ead17a7@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:34:10 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; 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In that case, someone will need to provide the necessary text, and say where exactly to put it. Unless there's a BCP that says how to request an ethertype in an internet-draft, in which case perhaps someone could send a pointer to it. 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In the section where an EtherType is needed, specify that the non-MPLS encapsulation uses EtherType TBA1. Add a section after the IANA considerations that says: "To support this standard, the IESG and IETF request the allocation of an EtherType TBA1 to be used for the BIER non-MPLS encapsulation. " It would be helpful to also include Tony's text from earlier about why using a sub-type isn't useful - so that the IEEE expert can easily find that. Thanks, Alia --94eb2c0da5e8d25a3a055a2cf0fd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
[cc&= #39;ing Pat & Russ for their opinions on the right way to document the = need for a new EtherType]

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Eric C Rosen <erose= n@juniper.net> wrote:
On 9/= 26/2017 6:14 PM, Alia Atlas wrote:
I believe that we do need to explicitly request an EtherType in this docume= nt.

In that case, someone will need to provide the necessary text, and say wher= e exactly to put it.

Unless there's a BCP that says how to request an ethertype in an intern= et-draft, in which case perhaps someone could send a pointer to it.

The reference is to= RFC 7241, which describes the formal relationship between IEEE 802 and IET= F.

In the section where an EtherType is needed, specify that the non-MPLS enc= apsulation uses EtherType TBA1.
Add a secti= on after the IANA considerations that says:

"To support this standard, the I= ESG and IETF request the allocation of an EtherType TBA1 to be used for the= BIER non-MPLS encapsulation. "

It would be helpful to also include Tony'= ;s text from earlier about why using a sub-type isn't useful - so that = the IEEE expert can easily find that.

<= /div>
Thanks,
Ali= a
--94eb2c0da5e8d25a3a055a2cf0fd-- From nobody Wed Sep 27 08:34:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA69413430A; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 08:34:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dvu5UYk4Nr-c; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 08:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFAAD134D46; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 08:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id m127so19733531wmm.3; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 08:30:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=zUaKB+h7zaemfCMKIoq8rIyxYAMIansZ0SwpIfRtnvQ=; b=hYRegmVAY8eSEhcZ1V+4y4Ls/xVGklTQA+PVdrQxj42fwtgSwYkiiq3wlgVrjFOG78 iAhsZaMLn25ZpoZhCm4Mw+rasqrGKmxS1LvCURZRFKJ5DsWs5BEBWE1w51cYSvMVQ1VI 21GxP8NpoMgYj7e3rVE0GU/gQJMfXbAPspxhejpKM1j2YjvXT4VEhPVtLzVNZkL50mGq 5okN5SZcyT1UVjYPHukFHOFqxrjN4ktYrqwEOopU4qIFb1b1qdeuT5q4Yk6W02QNoZtV /Ql5tvyZTvzMuur1Y6ATWn9i9lQArCg0yuStDb19dBilGWpUJwcX6H05IGaT/D9BzECd ln9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zUaKB+h7zaemfCMKIoq8rIyxYAMIansZ0SwpIfRtnvQ=; b=U0k8jUwg4pvH/7mVENBfLIn4qQZ/e4Yg5LZGlQXgRqWzgz1uEbbaWeM8tIJCvXfWgl 67P3F0HcFPhfzPM36HMQbO2nXixt0CvkNeK80ypUR++/3V+gmm98eAYNdA3Y4NGefcmz Kg9tFhm0YRj8jl/yI+/GzqCA/1+dw98nfSWgkjkNqlm08KMGWsm2FgiYnBtFK+agkIzw gYVxd/FRYPwhwzan+B/EQ9gWQWRqS+bR4u94xqZn4ns7ywB/m8h/8tQc8iFbAXh9rS6a atM9P7j6/Yz4pVrz+ncO5V5M9ssUXQ5WrkojDurhMr/Ro9YlVqW3O6acHinxbEdVxaSe C3UA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjh+H7P5OXBBgA30uGqzvIOMn5VPxm7KfRCMmSXSkgJ5Gui91FY BX3B4UUZ2tFZUSmmAQAqINAj0EyCKtn5I7lQVQc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QApvJX+xHGcXCYcfsvKJ+99obq9TkL1OESdQ8ODB9pRDsQLQk4lYZu0LuE+wyRxlpzetRCqO7qcELzrldXYoL0= X-Received: by 10.80.206.73 with SMTP id k9mr2315763edj.145.1506526214199; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 08:30:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.140.187 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <537a50fe-d929-64ae-28ff-ea781ead17a7@juniper.net> From: Tony Przygienda Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 08:29:33 -0700 Message-ID: To: Alia Atlas Cc: Eric C Rosen , "bier@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org, Russ Housley , Pat Thaler Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045dbdfcd79f7b055a2d7743" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:34:10 -0000 --f403045dbdfcd79f7b055a2d7743 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's the text I fired off to Alia and was bonvolently received by IEEE with the comment of "look us up again when you have an RFC" --- =E2=80=9CWe would like to request a distinct IEEE Ethernet Type for the use= of the draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation/ which defines an encapsulation for BIER technology that can be either carried natively as MPLS frames or the same way MPLS is carried over Ethernet in types 0x8847 and 0x8848. Major reasons why we would like to avoid using existing types or a subtype field are a) The BIER header is carefully aligned for fast processing being at the same point in the networking stack as native MPLS (sometimes colloquially called level 2.5). It is a carrier backbone targeted technology where forwarding speed requirements are the highest. Fast silicon can easily strip today Ethernet II headers to provide an aligned structure and adding subtype field would present unnecessary practical difficulty in implementation of the technology. b) Albeit it would be thinkable that 0x8847 or 0x8848 types could be used directly to carry the BIER encapsulation relying on the fact that BIER also presents a =E2=80=9Clabel=E2=80=9D equivalent, we do perceive that suc= h a route would be very perilous since the label MUST be presented in the same place in the payload (which BIER encapsulation today does not) and even then, intermediate hops may not be able to tell whether the label presents a BIER encapsulation or an MPLS label stack. c) BIER header carries in front today a well defined nibble value that allows silicon that =E2=80=9Cpeeks=E2=80=9D behind ether frame or MPLS labe= l stack without understanding the payload precisely to avoid interpreting BIER as IPv4 or IPv6 frame and build 5-tuple spurious entropy that way. Albeit such a behavior is questionable, it is widely deployed in today=E2=80=99s vendors= =E2=80=99 silicon chips to distinguish =E2=80=9Cflows=E2=80=9D behind MPLS and unknown frames= . Adding subtype field will misalign this field and may lead to unforeseen results. d) No obvious candidate Ethernet Type to =E2=80=9Csubtype=E2=80=9D BIE= R into is discernible =E2=80=9C --- --- tony On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Alia Atlas wrote: > [cc'ing Pat & Russ for their opinions on the right way to document the > need for a new EtherType] > > On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Eric C Rosen wrote= : > >> On 9/26/2017 6:14 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: >> >>> I believe that we do need to explicitly request an EtherType in this >>> document. >>> >> >> In that case, someone will need to provide the necessary text, and say >> where exactly to put it. >> >> Unless there's a BCP that says how to request an ethertype in an >> internet-draft, in which case perhaps someone could send a pointer to it= . >> > > The reference is to RFC 7241, which describes the formal relationship > between IEEE 802 and IETF. > > In the section where an EtherType is needed, specify that the non-MPLS > encapsulation uses EtherType TBA1. > Add a section after the IANA considerations that says: > > "To support this standard, the IESG and IETF request the allocation of an > EtherType TBA1 to be used for the BIER non-MPLS encapsulation. " > > It would be helpful to also include Tony's text from earlier about why > using a sub-type isn't useful - so that the IEEE expert can easily find > that. > > Thanks, > Alia > --f403045dbdfcd79f7b055a2d7743 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here's the text I fired off to Alia and was bonvolentl= y received by IEEE with the comment of "look us up again when you have= an RFC"

---

=E2=80=9CWe would like to request a distinct IEEE Ethernet T= ype for the use of the draft

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation/

=C2=A0

which defines an encapsul= ation for BIER technology that can be either carried natively as MPLS frame= s or the same way MPLS is carried over Ethernet in types 0x8847 and 0x8848.= Major reasons why we would like to avoid using existing types or a subtype= field are

a)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:"American Typewriter"">T= he BIER header is carefully aligned =C2=A0for fast processing being at the = same point in the networking stack as native MPLS (sometimes colloquially c= alled level 2.5). It is a carrier backbone targeted technology where forwar= ding speed requirements are the highest. Fast silicon can easily strip toda= y Ethernet II headers to provide an aligned structure and adding subtype fi= eld would present unnecessary practical difficulty in implementation of the= technology.=C2=A0

b)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Albeit it would be thinkable that 0x8847 or 0x8848 types could be us= ed directly to carry the BIER encapsulation relying on the fact that BIER a= lso presents a =E2=80=9Clabel=E2=80=9D equivalent, we do perceive that such= a route would be very perilous since the label =C2=A0MUST be presented in = the same place in the payload (which BIER encapsulation today does not) and= even then, intermediate hops may not be able to tell whether the label pre= sents a BIER encapsulation or an MPLS label stack.=C2=A0

c)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0BIER header carries in front = today a well defined nibble value that allows silicon that =E2=80=9Cpeeks= =E2=80=9D behind ether frame or MPLS label stack without understanding the = payload precisely to avoid interpreting BIER as IPv4 or IPv6 frame and buil= d 5-tuple spurious entropy that way. Albeit such a behavior is questionable= , it is widely deployed in today=E2=80=99s vendors=E2=80=99 silicon chips t= o distinguish =E2=80=9Cflows=E2=80=9D behind MPLS and unknown frames. Addin= g subtype field will misalign this field and may lead to unforeseen results= .=C2=A0

d)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0No o= bvious candidate Ethernet Type to =E2=80=9Csubtype=E2=80=9D BIER into is di= scernible

= = =E2=80=9C

---

--- tony=C2=A0<= /div>


On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Alia Atlas <= akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:
[cc'ing Pat & Rus= s for their opinions on the right way to document the need for a new EtherT= ype]

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Eric C Rosen <ero= sen@juniper.net> wrote:
On = 9/26/2017 6:14 PM, Alia Atlas wrote:
I believe that we do need to explicitly request an EtherType in this docume= nt.

In that case, someone will need to provide the necessary text, and say wher= e exactly to put it.

Unless there's a BCP that says how to request an ethertype in an intern= et-draft, in which case perhaps someone could send a pointer to it.

The ref= erence is to RFC 7241, which describes the formal relationship between IEEE= 802 and IETF.

In the section where an EtherType is needed, specify that the = non-MPLS encapsulation uses EtherType TBA1.
Add a section after the IANA considerations that says:

"To support this sta= ndard, the IESG and IETF request the allocation of an EtherType TBA1 to be = used for the BIER non-MPLS encapsulation. "

It would be helpful to also incl= ude Tony's text from earlier about why using a sub-type isn't usefu= l - so that the IEEE expert can easily find that.

Thanks,
Alia

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Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:40:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=ulaDqE9CAh0ow1u09KP/bpOB21sZA0QXGHYF1Viq5sI=; b=N/tzPJtedUiuQnY+EDWu0XaVlquQ+WIExl5R7r/5jnFAuVuMfLCI65tyQVg5KpqbGlAAsRhqi4uEY+gQZGwNzshW/j2tSbpF5R84IVSSA/cUDi9nPdOD8VShpfHSg1LnZcEZGfVYQh70q3PIfwu2A7c12lVO5WHIbp2zp8Zr0vc= Received: from [172.29.34.134] (66.129.241.14) by BL2PR05MB2292.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:c74f::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.77.5; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 17:40:14 +0000 To: Alia Atlas , Tony Przygienda Cc: "bier@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org References: From: Eric C Rosen Message-ID: <36f2b526-71ba-363b-74c3-842f0eb7d65a@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 13:40:08 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; 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Let me ask one more time whether we really want to do this.  If we do, the document's publication will be held up until the ethertype gets assigned.  If the IEEE decides not to assign an ethertype, the document will never get published (at least, not without additional process).  That's why the document says that the specification of a layer 2 codepoint for non-MPLS BIER is outside the scope of the document.  We really shouldn't gate the publication of the document on non-IETF process/politics. RFC 7241 does not seem to provide a procedure in which an RFC explicitly makes a request of the IEEE. If we do put an "IEEE Considerations" section in the document, to request the ethertype, I don't think it's appropriate to include Tony's text arguing that we don't want to use subtypes.  If an ethertype gets assigned, that all becomes irrelevant.  Tony's text is a good stand-alone message that can be sent to IEEE after the document is approved by IESG. On the issue of the OAM bits, I suggest the following text for section 2.1.2:    OAM:       By default, these two bits are set to zero by the BFIR, and are       not modified by other BFRs.  These two bits have no effect on the       path taken by a BIER packet, and have no effect on the the quality       of service applied to a BIER packet.       The use of these bits in other than the default manner is       OPTIONAL.  Specification of the non-default use or uses of these       bits is outside the scope of this document.  (See [BIER-PMM] for       an example of such a specification.) This makes it clear that the reference to BIER-PMM (draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam) is non-normative. I didn't add anything about keeping counts of consecutive packets with the OAM bits set.  That really requires a more detailed specification (consecutive packets with the same entropy?  with the same BitString?  with the same payload header?) and I think we want to keep the OAM specification in a separate document. I don't think it is wise to change the name of the "OAM bits" to the "Mark bits".  That will cause a problem if for some reason the bier-pmmm draft fails to advance. From nobody Wed Sep 27 10:47:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0F2B1349C4; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:47:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Oyv8wv9PIEr2; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:47:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com (mail-wm0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0D081342F1; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id m72so21252716wmc.1; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:47:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0uOWfxrXMre9u0LuKNyiFQio1zAiTRiNw1wYtECO2qY=; b=MOXQNymcw2CZNid6kXO+DiQiLoxiPcM+lQvFjjv7NrD1f4blmZxBOTeawoSJVfejb6 WNvTQtHmP4pD16pUtDiHC9VJWRygYyln59sF5Wx7HLcmXiJ/MayeBxPjgZfT7G8Hdy/h R45IWPztbqQkSb11fOZVu6DzDif64JfPltbBRcRYe4V3O7Jj+65LkKrszvzqgsvWDF1e DGRJdy7yzhtsQHMuw9YDNL224cudea808FH3e9Z+gaIMeGZ+nWFxPm5GGk3OJ8ROqw8X HhPxF2IAkiJ8FwDGsZ2RYIsNfBKB74yf8YB2+UA6TY20JbzXqm8L7kbevUk/ZAeW5kX+ cMQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0uOWfxrXMre9u0LuKNyiFQio1zAiTRiNw1wYtECO2qY=; b=t4MPydqO7bxuEMGionehVS7Nq0M/MtSHq3jo/y3FoLYPwOG7uWXpVKnGtup6amPdly akYm0waefG59YarR9AnjAPksVG5Nu2nSQo9/G233YRv8112mZDJtaroK6o2tpoLTbp3O gkANvpggTWGVmlPBwHxvlJaaUYMvI0sv0eIbtTzOPEXOQaYE+Hw320dWpq+T5w6ZJ2wB bLN98cXf/ewEvYvMRLBDSUs14DRzzBbrHtdrtqN/oLduREVQTH63uzfiVYanxqLZXfOM Un4w2BRn9frmEJjg/Cv1NCdc2RVZBXSm/VrsnNlk/18n+l4jXL3dGXRXgQSa9Ct/l2OZ BfYg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgbu4mwgpaw8mUW0Z7yz6JepKe8aVpLaL225rMatOFYA/RY3w9t 3oEPbwl2ADKcgeZpvbH99PF1mQYGQNWxwXNA1HQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBP1qCYzGC1Qrw7SNViNvJCE16wuVop6akWYhnhIlpK1Z1m8D4uIjO0UEp9KLvczgg+lmgNx+jdu5+sSV80uPM= X-Received: by 10.28.18.210 with SMTP id 201mr853914wms.135.1506534447941; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:47:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.136.153 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:47:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <36f2b526-71ba-363b-74c3-842f0eb7d65a@juniper.net> References: <36f2b526-71ba-363b-74c3-842f0eb7d65a@juniper.net> From: Alia Atlas Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 13:47:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: Eric C Rosen Cc: Tony Przygienda , "bier@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145b02c9c9d46055a2f627e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 17:47:32 -0000 --001a1145b02c9c9d46055a2f627e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Eric C Rosen wrote: > On 9/26/2017 6:14 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > >> I believe that we do need to explicitly request an EtherType in this >> document. >> > > Let me ask one more time whether we really want to do this. If we do, the > document's publication will be held up until the ethertype gets assigned. > If the IEEE decides not to assign an ethertype, the document will never get > published (at least, not without additional process). That's why the > document says that the specification of a layer 2 codepoint for non-MPLS > BIER is outside the scope of the document. We really shouldn't gate the > publication of the document on non-IETF process/politics. > > RFC 7241 does not seem to provide a procedure in which an RFC explicitly > makes a request of the IEEE. > > If we do put an "IEEE Considerations" section in the document, to request > the ethertype, I don't think it's appropriate to include Tony's text > arguing that we don't want to use subtypes. If an ethertype gets assigned, > that all becomes irrelevant. Tony's text is a good stand-alone message > that can be sent to IEEE after the document is approved by IESG. > I am fine with sending Tony's text separately. I am not concerned about the speed at which the IEEE will respond for this EtherType request. I am not concerned about asking the IESG to make a request. I have been through the process of getting an EtherType before. We have an excellent relationship with IEEE 802.1 and I expect that this will go smoothly and not slow things down. The worst-case response time is 3 months. > On the issue of the OAM bits, I suggest the following text for section > 2.1.2: > > OAM: > > By default, these two bits are set to zero by the BFIR, and are > not modified by other BFRs. These two bits have no effect on the > path taken by a BIER packet, and have no effect on the the quality > of service applied to a BIER packet. > > The use of these bits in other than the default manner is > OPTIONAL. Specification of the non-default use or uses of these > bits is outside the scope of this document. (See [BIER-PMM] for > an example of such a specification.) > > This makes it clear that the reference to BIER-PMM > (draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam) is non-normative. > > I didn't add anything about keeping counts of consecutive packets with the > OAM bits set. That really requires a more detailed specification > (consecutive packets with the same entropy? with the same BitString? with > the same payload header?) and I think we want to keep the OAM specification > in a separate document. > > I don't think it is wise to change the name of the "OAM bits" to the "Mark > bits". That will cause a problem if for some reason the bier-pmmm draft > fails to advance. > This text looks good to me. Thanks, Alia --001a1145b02c9c9d46055a2f627e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net= > wrote:
On 9/= 26/2017 6:14 PM, Alia Atlas wrote:
I believe that we do need to explicitly request an EtherType in this docume= nt.

Let me ask one more time whether we really want to do this.=C2=A0 If we do,= the document's publication will be held up until the ethertype gets as= signed.=C2=A0 If the IEEE decides not to assign an ethertype, the document = will never get published (at least, not without additional process).=C2=A0 = That's why the document says that the specification of a layer 2 codepo= int for non-MPLS BIER is outside the scope of the document.=C2=A0 We really= shouldn't gate the publication of the document on non-IETF process/pol= itics.

RFC 7241 does not seem to provide a procedure in which an RFC explicitly ma= kes a request of the IEEE.

If we do put an "IEEE Considerations" section in the document, to= request the ethertype, I don't think it's appropriate to include T= ony's text arguing that we don't want to use subtypes.=C2=A0 If an = ethertype gets assigned, that all becomes irrelevant.=C2=A0 Tony's text= is a good stand-alone message that can be sent to IEEE after the document = is approved by IESG.

I am fine with sen= ding Tony's text separately.
I am not concerned about the spe= ed at which the IEEE will respond for this EtherType request. I am not conc= erned about asking the IESG to make a request. I have been through the proc= ess of getting an EtherType before.
We have an excellent relation= ship with IEEE 802.1 and I expect that this will go smoothly and not slow t= hings down.
The worst-case response time is 3 months.=C2=A0
=

=C2=A0
On the issue= of the OAM bits, I suggest the following text for section 2.1.2:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 By default, these two bits are set to zero b= y the BFIR, and are
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 not modified by other BFRs.=C2=A0 These two = bits have no effect on the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 path taken by a BIER packet, and have no eff= ect on the the quality
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 of service applied to a BIER packet.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The use of these bits in other than the defa= ult manner is
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 OPTIONAL.=C2=A0 Specification of the non-def= ault use or uses of these
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 bits is outside the scope of this document.= =C2=A0 (See [BIER-PMM] for
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an example of such a specification.)

This makes it clear that the reference to BIER-PMM (draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oa= m) is non-normative.

I didn't add anything about keeping counts of consecutive packets with = the OAM bits set.=C2=A0 That really requires a more detailed specification = (consecutive packets with the same entropy?=C2=A0 with the same BitString?= =C2=A0 with the same payload header?) and I think we want to keep the OAM s= pecification in a separate document.

I don't think it is wise to change the name of the "OAM bits"= to the "Mark bits".=C2=A0 That will cause a problem if for some = reason the bier-pmmm draft fails to advance.

This text looks good to me.

Thanks,
Alia=C2=A0

--001a1145b02c9c9d46055a2f627e-- From nobody Wed Sep 27 13:48:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18D4A1350AA; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 13:48:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.62.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150654531104.32571.13092142898899880505@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 13:48:31 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-09.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 20:48:31 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : Encapsulation for Bit Index Explicit Replication in MPLS and non-MPLS Networks Authors : IJsbrand Wijnands Eric C. Rosen Andrew Dolganow Jeff Tantsura Sam K Aldrin Israel Meilik Filename : draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-09.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2017-09-27 Abstract: Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that provides optimal multicast forwarding through a "multicast domain", without requiring intermediate routers to maintain any per-flow state or to engage in an explicit tree-building protocol. When a multicast data packet enters the domain, the ingress router determines the set of egress routers to which the packet needs to be sent. The ingress router then encapsulates the packet in a BIER header. The BIER header contains a bitstring in which each bit represents exactly one egress router in the domain; to forward the packet to a given set of egress routers, the bits corresponding to those routers are set in the BIER header. The details of the encapsulation depend on the type of network used to realize the multicast domain. This document specifies a BIER encapsulation that can be used in an MPLS network, or with slight differences, in a non-MPLS network. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Sep 27 17:13:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15AED1351D8; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 17:13:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jeAaX5PEX7pk; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 17:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com (mail-wm0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0081A1351D0; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 17:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id r136so336527wmf.2; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 17:13:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Z1d561IDQUFSs/re6bKt/miDrNH8WFDDOlGdo/7jHOo=; b=icPW8Szkt8dX0dvWExKO0JExPpHdKp08w4devL3Ti/oDx3bpF47C2W/J+zUhlJsiRJ 4e+YDukpCZdAQfO1cC60tj4bzQKb9bmgDrByrCDjS9780hsTYgTHEdLFZGmsc/T4Z7Ic kp8p7iOQ5tsDJHqTL9btmTHa2oGsZZh99CeUkmO6gIL4McAULr+Xfyurw6SpKj1pNoo0 MSfUBWfKIGYgqg/hN3eZj0kPAO8SflxWSWD3hRiQN2bQXAaP/KzrGH7rA6SmFAPbtHvO pSWKoG4UBC+EvryI0YzHpbUbQR478sTEFEVKs6G8u5nWklgLKvOZofM1VmB+o+qPUEfl /a2g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Z1d561IDQUFSs/re6bKt/miDrNH8WFDDOlGdo/7jHOo=; b=ViD8zvpiz4fH+18a8n7+wdLoCh8Xa+r7uecnuxo9LpnInbeFqCq53vXZJTWf6JkFDV RWKs3QMdSzJ5E7pbYoLT2Nk719+cf5GmolhIDmbSF/IqzXZLqo2l/WN6JI037hV5m50S BMbHnryN3ANptxYDicNVshTgEgE+o5yP6naxIHlc1RYwgVYYjOFhQi7SvSAPA1xascUy CNYjE/D1vr7lNNf67DADO+pt5utPXLPaHAct0FTf7qeOO+GWaklyWYh8Vp1Qv4VbocRi MyytSMM0FVas8Md7sn3+EhGFW8eJLeOCfoXRPtboYLFXstGp2hvWBoszqiDHmflznR/5 CsuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgVUzymayz0wWb4bT7kL3FUCXxI9DCQ9Isr3rbKQNyAFpTy7RDx vd9P76xkUkzmLkCbo8uJIqbrgI/d6vsVTVZYh2Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAf+B0TY+qdF0aff8mi6AyOkVDRCHrKdWbg1k0SePjlKt3rFMDZPC9vpCpEN61Qfaa3SqI5rGQ1kK0amwUbF9k= X-Received: by 10.80.136.85 with SMTP id c21mr3663156edc.171.1506557623432; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 17:13:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.140.187 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 17:13:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Tony Przygienda Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 17:13:03 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)" Cc: Alia Atlas , "bier@ietf.org" , OSPF List , "draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c118efa7c0a055a34c771" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] early AD review of draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-07 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 00:13:48 -0000 --f403045c118efa7c0a055a34c771 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable inlined into inlines ;-) On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) < andrew.dolganow@nokia.com> wrote: > Alia, > > > > Thanks, so quick comments: > > > > *From: *Alia Atlas > *Date: *Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 6:12 AM > *To: *"bier@ietf.org" , OSPF List , " > draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org" extensions@ietf.org> > *Subject: *early AD review of draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-07 > *Resent-From: * > *Resent-To: *Peter Psenak , , > "(Ice) IJsbrand Wijnands" , Andrew Dolganow < > andrew.dolganow@nokia.com>, , Jeffrey Zhang < > zzhang@juniper.net>, > *Resent-Date: *Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 6:12 AM > > > > I have done an early AD review of draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-07 > in preparation for the publication request. > > > > First, I would like to thank the many authors for their work on this > draft. Given that there are currently 7 authors listed, I'd recommend > appointing a few editors or otherwise reducing down to 5 or fewer. Of > course, I am also willing to consider extraordinary circumstances where t= he > shepherd can explain to me privately the deep technical contribution made > by each author. > > > > I do see a number of major issues. > > > > Major Issues: > > > > 1) RFC7684 is just for OSPFv2. How is the information carried for > OSPFv3? We need a mechanism that works for IPv6 also. > > ad> agree =E2=80=93 the way the draft is written is v2 only. need to add= ress that. > > > +1 > 2) In Sec 2.1, the Length is defined as variable and the figure includes > additional sub-TLVs. Please clarify in the text what other sub-TLVs can b= e > carried & how the length is calculated (yes, same as always - but clarity > helps with interoperability). > > > > ad> Repeating may not be clarifying. How about we say =E2=80=9CVariable, = dependent > on sub-TLVs=E2=80=9D to use RFC7684-like text for the Extended prefix TLV= . I could > not find a single example where we list what sub-TLVs are carried either. > That is done =E2=80=93 as in this draft =E2=80=93 in sub-TLV sections. > +1 RFC7684-like text is good. Allegedly it's tad underspecified (unless you know other drafts), i.e. it should mention whether TLV header is included in the length or not. That's the most common implementation disagreement > > > 3) Sec 2.2 "The size of the label range is determined by the number of Se= t > Identifiers (SI) (section 1 of [I-D.ietf-bier-architecture]) that > are used in the network. Each SI maps to a single label in the > label range. The first label is for SI=3D0, the second label is fo= r > SI=3D1, etc.: > > > > This implies that there is no way to indicate only a label for SI=3D1 or = a > range for SI=3D1 to 3. That seems unfortunate and assumes that the BFR-id= s > are always allocated from SI=3D0 up. Is there a reason not to use some = of > the reserved bits to indicate the starting SI value? > > > > ad>set-identifiers provide a scaling for BIER sub-domains based on > supported BitString lengths. Conceptually we forward in sub-domains, thus > advertising label ranges for a sub-domain (as a base =E2=80=9Cunit=E2=80= =9D of forwarding) > makes sense. The extra level of granularity would break that sub-domain > consistency. Sometimes just because we could provide a higher granularity= I > do not think we should. This sub-domain granularity makes advertising and > processing simpler. > > > Yes, to keep sub-TLVs compact and computation simple (missing labels would create complex error criteria) we agreed to base @ SI=3D0 always and requir= e that all BFER-ids are covered by the range. > 4) Sec 2.3: The Tree type is a 1 octet value - that doesn't appear to hav= e > any IANA allocation or meaning clearly indicated - beyond the parenthetic= al > that 0=3DSPF. Please fix this. > > > > ad> agree this would need to be fixed > yes, parallel to ISIS draft. Right now missing or value =3D 0 is SPF. Needs in IANA section a registry request > > > 5) Sec 2.5: This section could benefit greatly from a diagram - showing > the advertising router for a prefix, the ABR, and what is then flooded fo= r > the BIER MPLS Sub-TLV for the new areas. > > > > ad> again without arguing against diagram, I can only say this text is > consistent with other similar paragraphs in other drafts/RFCs (like 7684)= . > I could not find an example when we do put a diagram (but only looked at > about 5 OSPF RFCs. > > > I don't consider it particularly necessary given it's basically RFC7684 behavior and easily understood by anyone who implemented type-3, type-1 behavior in OSPF. We don't summarize or play any tricks (given the draft mandates /32 and N bit). > Minor: > > > > 4) Sec 2.3: "Label Range Base: A 3 octet field, where the 20 rightmost > bits represent the first label in the label range." What about the top 4 > bits? Are they Must Be Zero (MBZ)? How about making that explicit? Are > they potential future flags?/ > > > > ad> I assume you mean 2.2 section, yes MBZ. > > > yepp, needs adding Ultimate observation: We should add that if the BML translation TLV is present, it indicates that the node CAN translate between all BMLs it advertised itself in SD and NOT all possible downstream BMLs. Important clarification if we end up running multi-BML computations or a BFER has to decide which BML to inject in a mix environ (doesn't look like we go there but it's better be safe than sorry and it's a small addition making the spec water-tighter). Overall, stuff doesn't look like any major items popped up and too much work overall. Given Les made noises to rev ISIS BIER towards start next week I'm sure Peter as editor of OSPF BIER doesn't want to be bested (nudge, nudge ;-P --- tony --f403045c118efa7c0a055a34c771 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
inlined into inlines ;-)


On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Dolganow,= Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com><= /span> wrote:

A= lia,

<= u>=C2=A0

T= hanks, so quick comments:

<= u>=C2=A0

From: Alia Atlas <<= a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com= >
Date: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 6:12 AM
To: "bier@ie= tf.org" <bie= r@ietf.org>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-= extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org>
Subject: early AD review of draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extension= s-07
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, <naikumar@cisco.com>, "(Ice) IJsbrand= Wijnands" <ice@= cisco.com>, Andrew Dolganow <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com>, <prz@juniper.net>, Jeff= rey Zhang <zzhan= g@juniper.net>, <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Resent-Date: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 6:12 AM<= /span>

=C2=A0

I have done an early AD r= eview of draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-07 in preparation for th= e publication request.

=C2=A0

First, I would like to th= ank the many authors for their work on this draft. Given that there are cur= rently 7 authors listed, I'd recommend appointing a few editors or othe= rwise reducing down to 5 or fewer. Of course, I am also willing to consider extraordinary circumstances where th= e shepherd can explain to me privately the deep technical contribution made= by each author.

=C2=A0

I do see a number of majo= r issues.

=C2=A0

Major Issues:

=C2=A0

1)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 RFC7684 is just for OSPFv2.=C2=A0 How is the informati= on carried for OSPFv3? We need a mechanism that works for IPv6 also.=

ad> agree =E2= =80=93 the way the draft is written is v2 only.=C2=A0 need to address that.=

=C2=A0


+1
=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);pa= dding-left:1ex">

2) In Sec 2.1, the Length= is defined as variable and the figure includes additional sub-TLVs. Please= clarify in the text what other sub-TLVs can be carried & how the lengt= h is calculated (yes, same as always - but clarity helps with interoperability).

=C2=A0

ad> Repeating m= ay not be clarifying. How about we say =E2=80=9CVariable, dependent on sub-= TLVs=E2=80=9D to use RFC7684-like text for the Extended prefix TLV. I could= not find a single example where we list what sub-TLVs are carried either. That is done =E2=80=93 as in this draft =E2=80=93 in sub-TLV secti= ons.


+1 RFC7684= -like text is good. Allegedly it's tad underspecified (unless you know = other drafts), i.e. it should mention whether TLV header is included in the= length or not. That's the most common implementation disagreement
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

3) Sec 2.2=C2=A0"The= size of the label range is determined by the number of Set
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Identifiers (SI) (section 1 of [I-D.ietf-bier-architec= ture]) that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 are used in the network.=C2=A0 Each SI maps to a singl= e label in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 label range.=C2=A0 The first label is for SI=3D0, the = second label is for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SI=3D1, etc.:

=C2=A0

This implies that there i= s no way to indicate only a label for SI=3D1 or a range for SI=3D1 to 3. Th= at seems unfortunate and assumes that the BFR-ids are always allocated from= SI=3D0 up.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Is there a reason not to use some of the reserved bits to indicate the starting SI value?=

=C2=A0

ad>set-identifi= ers provide a scaling for BIER sub-domains based on supported BitString len= gths. Conceptually we forward in sub-domains, thus advertising label ranges= for a sub-domain (as a base =E2=80=9Cunit=E2=80=9D of forwarding) makes sense. The extra level of granularity would break that sub-domain co= nsistency. Sometimes just because we could provide a higher granularity I d= o not think we should. This sub-domain granularity makes advertising and pr= ocessing simpler.

=C2=A0


Yes, to keep sub-TLVs comp= act and computation simple (missing labels would create complex error crite= ria) we agreed to base @ SI=3D0 always and require that all BFER-ids are co= vered by the range.
=C2=A0

4) Sec 2.3: The Tree type= is a 1 octet value - that doesn't appear to have any IANA allocation o= r meaning clearly indicated - beyond the parenthetical that 0=3DSPF.=C2=A0 = Please fix this.

=C2=A0

ad> agree this = would need to be fixed


yes, parallel to ISIS draft. Right now missing or value =3D 0 is SP= F. Needs in IANA section a registry request=C2=A0
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

5) Sec 2.5: This section = could benefit greatly from a diagram - showing the advertising router for a= prefix, the ABR, and what is then flooded for the BIER MPLS Sub-TLV for th= e new areas.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

ad> again without argu= ing against diagram, I can only say this text is consistent with other simi= lar paragraphs in other drafts/RFCs (like 7684). I could not find an exampl= e when we do put a diagram (but only looked at about 5 OSPF RFCs.

=C2=A0


I don't consider it pa= rticularly necessary given it's basically RFC7684 behavior and easily u= nderstood by anyone who implemented type-3, type-1 behavior in OSPF. We don= 't summarize or play any tricks (given the draft mandates /32 and N bit= ).=C2=A0
=C2=A0

Minor:=C2=A0

=C2=A0

4) Sec 2.3:=C2=A0"La= bel Range Base: A 3 octet field, where the 20 rightmost bits=C2=A0represent= the first label in the label range."=C2=A0 What about the top 4 bits?= =C2=A0 Are they Must Be Zero (MBZ)?=C2=A0 How about making that explicit?= =C2=A0 Are they potential future flags?/

=C2=A0

ad> I assume you mean = 2.2 section, yes MBZ.

=C2=A0


yepp, needs adding=C2=A0

Ultimate observation: We should add that if the BML= translation TLV is present, it indicates that the node CAN translate betwe= en all BMLs it advertised itself in SD and NOT all possible downstream BMLs= . Important clarification if we end up running multi-BML computations or a = BFER has to decide which BML to inject in a mix environ (doesn't look l= ike we go there but it's better be safe than sorry and it's a small= addition making the spec water-tighter).=C2=A0

Ov= erall, stuff doesn't look like any major items popped up and too much w= ork overall. Given Les made noises to rev ISIS BIER towards start next week= I'm sure Peter as editor of OSPF BIER doesn't want to be bested (n= udge, nudge ;-P=C2=A0

--- tony=C2=A0
--f403045c118efa7c0a055a34c771-- From nobody Wed Sep 27 19:27:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC88C13525E; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-bier-architecture@ietf.org, Greg Shepherd , bier-chairs@ietf.org, gjshep@gmail.com, bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.62.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150656564096.13704.9439200557289680846.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 19:27:20 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 02:27:21 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bier-architecture-08: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with other comments that the architecture document should describe the experiment. From nobody Thu Sep 28 06:29:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B665134736; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:29:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FM7v4qaltAs4; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AD63133044; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DWL44684; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:29:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:29:38 +0100 Received: from NKGEML514-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.149]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 21:29:30 +0800 From: Xiejingrong To: Alia Atlas , "bier@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 Thread-Index: AdM4XF1+IkJCmhfmQPSk5YFNQvwWyw== Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:29:29 +0000 Message-ID: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115A951AD547@nkgeml514-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.217.214] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115A951AD547nkgeml514mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020203.59CCF945.007F, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.149, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a58cc67fe5d8b2dbac480f00752bab10 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:29:46 -0000 --_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115A951AD547nkgeml514mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0822048c3e77ce055a4255d6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 16:23:54 -0000 --089e0822048c3e77ce055a4255d6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As we found out over time a label is a 20bit number that can be used as pivoting point for all kind of decisions (SPRING, unified SR or a SID, or a value that reboots the silicon ;-) so this is a fair observation. Let me react to that: Generally, BIER is laid out broadly enough _anything_ can install BIFTs and for that matter incoming "bindings" for (SD,SI,BML), controller, IGPs, static config. So all those encaps & binding drafts are just incarnations of different ways to get the forwarding state into the nodes. IGP downstream being most interesting one for initial deployments. MPLS is a "label switching" architecture so it deals with labels being locally significant for better or for worse. So the draft is logically consistent. The labels _are_ locally significant in BIER and have to be for MPLS since we have to deal with all kind of vast MPLS ecosystem such as 0x8847/8, MPLS in UDP and so on. All that can carry MPLS BIER. Nothing will prevent the encapsulation from working in a different way, i.e. a box does not allocate local labels but gets the binding including all the downstream labels from something else than IGP, static, controller, or magic. I don't consider that particularly practical except for maybe very few, static "trees" but time will tell. The most extreme version of that is something like a global SID which is basically described in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wijnandsxu-bier-non-mpls-bift-encodi= ng/?include_text=3D1. Strictly speaking this is indistinguishable from all the boxes _by chance_ having allocated all the same label or having those labels statically synchronized and with that the MPLS encapsulation could be "abused" that way or rather, it's one of the extreme points in the spectrum it covers. In short, I think the draft is consistent in the "MPLS section" and allows non-locally significant (or whatever scope is chosen) labels in non-MPLS part with the tactic understanding that you _could_ use MPLS in the style of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wijnandsxu-bier-non-mpls-bift-encodi= ng/?include_text=3D1 whereas all the unintended consequences of that are yours and yours alone ;-) --- tony On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:29 AM, Xiejingrong wrote= : > In chap 2.1.1.1, there is a description: > > =E2=80=9CThe BIER-MPLS labels are locally significant (i.e., unique only = to the > BFR that advertises them) downstream-assigned MPLS labels.=E2=80=9D > > > > I have a question: Why BIER-MPLS labels must be downstream-assigned MPLS > labels ? > > Althrough in current BIER using IGP , MPLS labels to (SD, SI, BSL) are > downstream-assigned, BUT there may be other Possibility, for example when > considering use a controller. > > I advice remove this limit, or describe this limit as a case of using IGP= . > > > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] *=E4= =BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 *Alia Atlas > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2017=E5=B9=B49=E6=9C=8827=E6=97= =A5 5:06 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* bier@ietf.org; draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encaps= ulation@ietf.org > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulat= ion-08 > > > > As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsu= lation-08. > First, I would like to thank the authors & editors, Ice, Eric, Andrew, > Jeff, Sam, and Israel, as well as the WG for this solid document. > > > > I do have a couple major issues that need to be resolved ASAP so I can ge= t > this document into IETF Last Call and scheduled for the telechat on Oct 2= 6. > > > > Major: > > > > 1) First, this draft references draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-fram= ework-06 > for the only description of how the OAM bits are used. I think, based on= a > very quick scan, that perhaps > > draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-10 would work as well - but even that is > Experimental so would be a downref when this goes Standards Track. What > might be useful to say in this draft is: > > > > "'Specifying the values of the OAM bits or interpreting them is not done > by the BIER forwarding layer. Instead, an OAM layer can specify the value > to be used by a BFIR and process the received OAM values at a BFER. The > OAM bits MAY be set to any value by a BFIR; the OAM bits SHOULD NOT be > modified by BFRs as part of normal processing, unless instructed to by an > OAM process. The BFERs SHOULD provide a mechanism for reporting at least > the number of packets received in a row with each value. One example of > how such OAM bits can be used by different OAM processing is described in > [draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark]." > > > > I'm sure it can be wordsmithed better. The key points are to define wher= e > the OAM bits can be set, where they can be modified, and that packets > counts based on the values should be provided in some fashion. Then the > reference to what the OAM layer does can be informative. Regardless of t= he > reference type, this type of normative language is needed. > > > > 2) In Sec 2.2.3, it says: "Rather, a new ethertype would have to be > assigned and > used. Specification of the layer 2 codepoints to be used for the > non-MPLS BIER encapsulation is outside the scope of this document." > > > > I thought that this document is asking for a standard EtherType for the > non-MPLS BIER encapsulation?? Certainly, I need text like that to reques= t > the allocation from IEEE. > > Please be clear that this document is asking for an IEEE Ethertype to be > allocated, > > if that is, as I understood, the WG's intent. > > > > Nit: > > a) Sec 3 bullet 6a: s/BFIR's BFIR-id/BFIR's BFR-id > > > Regards, > > Alia > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > --089e0822048c3e77ce055a4255d6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As we found out over time a label is a 20bit number that c= an be used as pivoting point for all kind of decisions (SPRING, unified SR = or a SID, or a value that reboots the silicon ;-) so this is a fair observa= tion. Let me react to that:=C2=A0

Generally, BIER is lai= d out broadly enough _anything_ can install BIFTs and for that matter incom= ing "bindings" for (SD,SI,BML), controller, IGPs, static config. = So all those encaps & binding drafts are just incarnations of different= ways to get the forwarding state into the nodes. IGP downstream being most= interesting one for initial deployments.

MPLS is = a "label switching" architecture so it deals with labels being lo= cally significant for better or for worse. So the draft is logically consis= tent. The labels _are_ locally significant in BIER and have to be for MPLS = since we have to deal with all kind of vast MPLS ecosystem such as 0x8847/8= , MPLS in UDP and so on. All that can carry MPLS BIER.=C2=A0

=
Nothing will prevent the encapsulation from working in a differe= nt way, i.e. a box does not allocate local labels but gets the binding incl= uding all the downstream labels from something else than IGP, static, contr= oller, or magic. I don't consider that particularly practical except fo= r maybe very few, static "trees" but time will tell.=C2=A0
<= div>
The most extreme version of that is something like a glo= bal SID which is basically described in ht= tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wijnandsxu-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding= /?include_text=3D1. Strictly speaking this is indistinguishable from al= l the boxes _by chance_ having allocated all the same label or having those= labels statically synchronized and with that the MPLS encapsulation could = be "abused" that way or rather, it's one of the extreme point= s in the spectrum it covers.=C2=A0

In short, I thi= nk the draft is consistent in the "MPLS section" and allows non-l= ocally significant (or whatever scope is chosen) labels in non-MPLS part wi= th the tactic understanding that you _could_ use MPLS in the style of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wijnands= xu-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding/?include_text=3D1=C2=A0whereas all the u= nintended consequences of that are yours and yours alone ;-)=C2=A0

--- tony=C2=A0



On Thu, Sep 28, 201= 7 at 6:29 AM, Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrot= e:

In chap 2.1.1.1, there= is a description:

=E2=80=9CThe BIER-MPLS= labels are locally significant (i.e., unique only to the BFR that advertis= es them) downstream-assigned MPLS labels.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

I have a question: Why= BIER-MPLS labels must be downstream-assigned MPLS labels ?

Althrough in current B= IER using IGP , =C2=A0MPLS labels to (SD, SI, BSL) are downstream-assigned,= BUT there may be other Possibility, for example when considering use a controller.

I advice remove this l= imit, or describe this limit as a case of using IGP.

=C2=A0

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA= := bier-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Alia Atlas
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017= =E5=B9=B49=E6=9C= =8827=E6=97=A5 5:06
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: bier@ie= tf.org; draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08

=C2=A0

As is customary, I have done my= AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08.=C2=A0 First, I wo= uld like to thank the authors & editors, Ice, Eric, Andrew, Jeff, Sam, = and Israel, as well as the WG for this solid document.=

=C2=A0

I do have a couple major issues= that need to be resolved ASAP so I can get this document into IETF Last Ca= ll and scheduled for the telechat on Oct 26.

=C2=A0

Major:

=C2=A0

1) First, this draft references= =C2=A0draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework-06 for the o= nly description of how the OAM bits are used.=C2=A0 I think, based on a ver= y quick scan, that perhaps=C2=A0

draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-10 wou= ld work as well - but even that is Experimental so would be a downref when = this goes Standards Track.=C2=A0 =C2=A0What might be useful to say in this = draft is:

=C2=A0

"'Specifying the value= s of the OAM bits or interpreting them is not done by the BIER forwarding l= ayer. Instead, an OAM layer can specify the value to be used by a BFIR and = process the received OAM values at a BFER.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The OAM bits MAY be set to any value by a BFIR; the OAM bits SHOULD NOT be mod= ified by BFRs as part of normal processing, unless instructed to by an OAM = process. The BFERs SHOULD provide a mechanism for reporting at least the nu= mber of packets received in a row with each value.=C2=A0 One example of how such OAM bits can be used by dif= ferent OAM processing is described in [draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark]."<= /u>

=C2=A0

I'm sure it can be wordsmit= hed better.=C2=A0 The key points are to define where the OAM bits can be se= t, where they can be modified, and that packets counts based on the values = should be provided in some fashion.=C2=A0 Then the reference to what the OAM layer does can be informative.=C2=A0 Regardless = of the reference type, this type of normative language is needed.=

=C2=A0

2) In Sec 2.2.3, it says: "= ;Rather, a new ethertype would have to be assigned and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0used.=C2=A0 Specification of the layer 2 codepoints to be used= for the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0non-MPLS BIER encapsulation is outside the scope of this docum= ent."

=C2=A0

I thought that this document is= asking for a standard EtherType for the non-MPLS BIER encapsulation??=C2= =A0 Certainly, I need text like that to request the allocation from IEEE.

Please be clear that this docum= ent is asking for an IEEE Ethertype to be allocated,

if that is, as I understood, th= e WG's intent.

=C2=A0

Nit:

a) Sec 3 bullet 6a:=C2=A0 s/BFI= R's BFIR-id/BFIR's BFR-id
=C2=A0

Regards,

Alia


_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier


--089e0822048c3e77ce055a4255d6-- From nobody Fri Sep 29 05:29:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43196134511; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 05:29:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lnnothww4FFH; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 05:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E834133074; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 05:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DPP32733; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 12:29:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 13:29:45 +0100 Received: from NKGEML514-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.149]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 20:29:32 +0800 From: Xiejingrong To: Tony Przygienda CC: Alia Atlas , "bier@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 Thread-Index: AdM5HmKfFMKZ/5FQQYaBc5LHne7Erg== Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 12:29:31 +0000 Message-ID: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115A951B08CC@nkgeml514-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US 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--------------96F65DD1D5CD89D471DD3F7E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 9/29/2017 8:29 AM, Xiejingrong wrote: > > Yes, MPLS is MP-Label-Switch, and MPLS-Labels are traditional > downstream-assigned and locally. > > But, one example, draft-ietf-bier-mvpn-07 define BIER used in MVPN, > and use an upstream-assigned MPLS-Label as VPN-label. > > Does it implied the upstream-assigned label is also REAL MPLS ? > The upstream-assigned label used in bier-mvpn  is not the BIER-MPLS label, it is part of the BIER payload.   The upstream-assigned label is not interpreted by the BIER layer, and has no impact on the BIER forwarding process.  It belongs to the MVPN overlay layer. > Another example, draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-09 add chap 5, and > it says "IEEE has been requested to assign ethertype TBD1 for non-MPLS > BIER packets". > > Upstream-assigned labels with a precursor context-label, also use a > Eth with old ethertype 0x8847. > > How should we differ 'MPLS networks' and 'Non-MPLS Networks' in this > draft ? > When using the non-MPLS encapsulation, the ethertype would NOT be 0x8847, but rather some new value to be assigned by IEEE. To get back to your original question ... > I have a question: Why BIER-MPLS labels must be downstream-assigned > MPLS labels ? > > Although in current BIER using IGP ,  MPLS labels to (SD, SI, BSL) are > downstream-assigned, BUT there may be other Possibility, for example > when considering use a controller. > > I advice remove this limit, or describe this limit as a case of using IGP. > This document is about the dataplane, so we need to look at this from the dataplane perspective. In the dataplane, it doesn't really  matter what procedure was used to bind the label, all that matter is what procedure you use to look up the label. Suppose the mpls encapsulation is being used.  When a router first receives a BIER packet, it appears to be an ordinary MPLS packet. The router does not know  that it is a BIER packet until after it looks up the top label.  Therefore the BIER-MPLS label must be looked up in the same label space that the router would use for looking up the top label in any other MPLS packet it receives. There is no special "BIER context" that can be derived before looking up the top label, so it cannot be in a context-specific label space. In the case of an "upstream-assigned label with a precursor context-label and an ethertype of 0x8847", the context-label is treated as "downstream-assigned", in that it is looked up in the ordinary MPLS table.  The upstream-assigned label following it would then be looked up in the MPLS label table that is identified by context label. If the BIER-MPLS labels were assigned and distributed by a controller, the routers would still need to do the lookups in the ordinary MPLS label table (not a context-specific table), and hence the labels would still function in the dataplane as downstream-assigned labels. With ten years of hindsight, one can see that RFC 5331 should have made a clearer distinction between (a) who binds the label and propagates the binding, and (b) which MPLS table is used for the look up. --------------96F65DD1D5CD89D471DD3F7E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 9/29/2017 8:29 AM, Xiejingrong wrote:

 

Yes, MPLS is MP-Label-Switch, and MPLS-Labels are traditional downstream-assigned and locally.

But, one example, draft-ietf-bier-mvpn-07 define BIER used in MVPN, and use an upstream-assigned MPLS-Label as VPN-label.

Does it implied the upstream-assigned label is also REAL MPLS ?


The upstream-assigned label used in bier-mvpn  is not the BIER-MPLS label, it is part of the BIER payload.   The upstream-assigned label is not interpreted by the BIER layer, and has no impact on the BIER forwarding process.  It belongs to the MVPN overlay layer. 

 

Another example, draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-09 add chap 5, and it says "IEEE has been requested to assign ethertype TBD1 for non-MPLS BIER packets".

Upstream-assigned labels with a precursor context-label, also use a Eth with old ethertype 0x8847.

How should we differ 'MPLS networks' and 'Non-MPLS Networks' in this draft ?


When using the non-MPLS encapsulation, the ethertype would NOT be 0x8847, but rather some new value to be assigned by IEEE.

To get back to your original question ...

I have a question: Why BIER-MPLS labels must be downstream-assigned MPLS labels ?

Although in current BIER using IGP ,  MPLS labels to (SD, SI, BSL) are downstream-assigned, BUT there may be other Possibility, for example when considering use a controller.

I advice remove this limit, or describe this limit as a case of using IGP.


This document is about the dataplane, so we need to look at this from the dataplane perspective.

In the dataplane, it doesn't really  matter what procedure was used to bind the label, all that matter is what procedure you use to look up the label.

Suppose the mpls encapsulation is being used.  When a router first receives a BIER packet, it appears to be an ordinary MPLS packet.  The router does not know  that it is a BIER packet until after it looks up the top label.  Therefore the BIER-MPLS label must be looked up in the same label space that the router would use for looking up the top label in any other MPLS packet it receives.  There is no special "BIER context" that can be derived before looking up the top label, so it cannot be in a context-specific label space.

In the case of an "upstream-assigned label with a precursor context-label and an ethertype of 0x8847", the context-label is treated as "downstream-assigned", in that it is looked up in the ordinary MPLS table.  The upstream-assigned label following it would then be looked up in the MPLS label table that is identified by
context label.

If the BIER-MPLS labels were assigned and distributed by a controller, the routers would still need to do the lookups in the ordinary MPLS label table (not a context-specific table), and hence the labels would still function in the dataplane as downstream-assigned labels.

With ten years of hindsight, one can see that RFC 5331 should have made a clearer distinction between (a) who binds the label and propagates the binding, and (b) which MPLS table is used for the look up. 




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tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q7-BufsuFIEW; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 07:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com (mail-wm0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A2EF1344D6; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 07:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id i82so1573272wmd.3; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 07:27:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KhsBSqGC1yGmgih78iVAjtNQ/W0bXiU/tsSN5knHmuo=; b=qQlL6J/EV15lQECKDTgXOl+Vr59cRicYGcv4ysR2Tfv7M7ORHNJ/eL3QGRuwg9gQ1F QGdEpvUS7LgV735BErtZAgFX4LIOC9uvf2SEEjYNHrD7Ewv0uhY7MuvxIeK/I2l4p9zI 0aEBPN+kwRMOM6lK+XseyM7QkMJlLCLe+L46tlWiZ6ZS9OLb5tdfWzGX4ypD1OSk5ebl WpxPgBTYglfljFRQzezVvj+FsWYs8Q0HyQ/ROQKqHJnMeuPxtZOBpV+C5/kJmJourURc tcPE7jfWNK7dYzfn3qgyt5HzP6yPrR/V0n6k5+CAbHsMfsYhGIiJw7NbCm4kbRUk3QmV QMgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KhsBSqGC1yGmgih78iVAjtNQ/W0bXiU/tsSN5knHmuo=; b=RFrjKrR/lKHmlDGn3nD/Tatpg08x19/Tcg0ZJ/J6G0r8ArXLP1KxGwjeu81GRXUhmu Bynm3+jeM/y4VFPqFI6k9W1ZwtaT+DBO4REHv+51+dRdea6nLIcQpc6wWxU7fgmzhNg3 6okmlxKSzblTjRCSPLTAfOmdsdLlMFnncTYg8NAQ+0cLUeiEKxXFcJesNLYzQKtWvH8p bz2zxDkmbbdliXLvpaTMxBtqQ9KZNHSttehHJXkJGXpDThPZ1czl6SUYxKgwhd3YYxQb KK7jaMiR6cO282vR3hT5M5iieyLuxffPK52ya396dr+mzKA17WQda2WJTiq4nzf7KIy+ Cdhw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUi6dRR8PPb3c4XWpXtvK9JqVaB25d7sai8nobYci8g75XtEc3Fl IYmB1dkyoEuv46okcvgrPpaDflfPKz1l7cqODx0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QB6W2A3wdEML3SEPRA9I+Q1gzKCLH+qX1PpM8T/LVMes08fDF7RO07OcmxD3xBSWoPSC9Icuk8xjQHnE+hfVMo= X-Received: by 10.80.136.85 with SMTP id c21mr13513109edc.171.1506781660968; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 07:27:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.140.187 with HTTP; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 07:27:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115A951B0B3E@nkgeml514-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115A951B0B3E@nkgeml514-mbs.china.huawei.com> From: Tony Przygienda Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 07:27:00 -0700 Message-ID: To: Xiejingrong Cc: Eric C Rosen , Alia Atlas , "bier@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c118ea7ff79055a68f175" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgQUQgcmV2aWV3IG9mIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYt?= =?utf-8?q?bier-mpls-encapsulation-08?= X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 14:27:45 -0000 --f403045c118ea7ff79055a68f175 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mrses Xuxiaohu & Xiejingrong, your comments are late, broad and generic in nature. Generally, I don't think they point out any technical defects that merit attention but extend alternative ideas, seek clarification and alternative text to be written. * For alternative ideas we encourage procurement of new drafts * For clarification people on this list will chime in if necessary whereas MPLS as idea/papers/minutes/technology/deployed products exist for many, many years and literature is widely available for consultation * For suggestions along the lines of alternative text of the draft I observe that the WG LC has been very long and very extensive and is closed since long time. The document @ this point in time is in the hands of Directorate & IESG reviewers. Obviously, nits and serious technical defects are still of interest but I don't see neither in your mails thanks -- tony On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Xiejingrong wrote= : > Another minor point: > > chap 3 has a title "Imposing and Processing the BIER Encapsulation". > Should this chap focus on specifying the data-plane aspect ? > > The 1/2/3/4/5/6 and a/b/c/d is not very continuous, and they seems to be > control-plane and data-plane respectively. > > There are paragraphs about BFIR (with a/b/c/d) processing, intermediate > BFR processing, but BFER/BUD processing is only implied in the last > paragraph. > > > > Again, chap 3 describe "An MPLS label stack is then prepended to the > packet. This label stack [RFC3032] will contain one label, the > aforementioned BIER-MPLS label." > > I wonder, If the whole label stack only allow One label, will the > ability/possibility to run over a MPLS transport-network lost ? > > I am confused, which level is BIER belong to in OSI 7-levels mode, > compared to the traditional layer 2.5 MPLS 'tunnel' ? > > > > > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Xiejingrong > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2017=E5=B9=B49=E6=9C=8830=E6=97= =A5 10:41 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* 'Eric C Rosen' ; Tony = Przygienda < > tonysietf@gmail.com> > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:* Alia Atlas ; bier@ietf.org; draf= t-ietf-bier-mpls- > encapsulation@ietf.org > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-= bier-mpls-encapsulation-08 > > > > Hi, Tony and Rosen, > > Thanks a lot for answering my question in detail. I still have some > concern: > > Suppose 1 SD, 64bit BSL, with a 65536 BFERs, then every router will > consume 1024 per-platform downstream-assigned labels. how about 256 SDs > then ? > > If replaced with one Per-SD Per-router 1 context-label and 1024 > upstream-assigned BIER-label, then per-platform Labels will saved and > allocing BIER-label will be easy. > > Bier-mvpn begin using upstream-assigned label. Need open the door more ? > > > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Eric C Rosen [mailto:erosen@juniper.net ] > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2017=E5=B9=B49=E6=9C=8829=E6=97= =A5 22:20 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Xiejingrong ; Tony= Przygienda < > tonysietf@gmail.com> > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:* Alia Atlas ; bier@ietf.org; draf= t-ietf-bier-mpls- > encapsulation@ietf.org > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* Re: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encaps= ulation-08 > > > > On 9/29/2017 8:29 AM, Xiejingrong wrote: > > > > Yes, MPLS is MP-Label-Switch, and MPLS-Labels are traditional > downstream-assigned and locally. > > But, one example, draft-ietf-bier-mvpn-07 define BIER used in MVPN, and > use an upstream-assigned MPLS-Label as VPN-label. > > Does it implied the upstream-assigned label is also REAL MPLS ? > > > The upstream-assigned label used in bier-mvpn is not the BIER-MPLS label= , > it is part of the BIER payload. The upstream-assigned label is not > interpreted by the BIER layer, and has no impact on the BIER forwarding > process. It belongs to the MVPN overlay layer. > > > > Another example, draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-09 add chap 5, and it > says "IEEE has been requested to assign ethertype TBD1 for non-MPLS BIER > packets". > > Upstream-assigned labels with a precursor context-label, also use a Eth > with old ethertype 0x8847. > > How should we differ 'MPLS networks' and 'Non-MPLS Networks' in this draf= t > ? > > > When using the non-MPLS encapsulation, the ethertype would NOT be 0x8847, > but rather some new value to be assigned by IEEE. > > To get back to your original question ... > > I have a question: Why BIER-MPLS labels must be downstream-assigned MPLS > labels ? > > Although in current BIER using IGP , MPLS labels to (SD, SI, BSL) are > downstream-assigned, BUT there may be other Possibility, for example when > considering use a controller. > > I advice remove this limit, or describe this limit as a case of using IGP= . > > > This document is about the dataplane, so we need to look at this from the > dataplane perspective. > > In the dataplane, it doesn't really matter what procedure was used to > bind the label, all that matter is what procedure you use to look up the > label. > > Suppose the mpls encapsulation is being used. When a router first > receives a BIER packet, it appears to be an ordinary MPLS packet. The > router does not know that it is a BIER packet until after it looks up th= e > top label. Therefore the BIER-MPLS label must be looked up in the same > label space that the router would use for looking up the top label in any > other MPLS packet it receives. There is no special "BIER context" that c= an > be derived before looking up the top label, so it cannot be in a > context-specific label space. > > In the case of an "upstream-assigned label with a precursor context-label > and an ethertype of 0x8847", the context-label is treated as > "downstream-assigned", in that it is looked up in the ordinary MPLS table= . > The upstream-assigned label following it would then be looked up in the > MPLS label table that is identified by > context label. > > If the BIER-MPLS labels were assigned and distributed by a controller, th= e > routers would still need to do the lookups in the ordinary MPLS label tab= le > (not a context-specific table), and hence the labels would still function > in the dataplane as downstream-assigned labels. > > With ten years of hindsight, one can see that RFC 5331 should have made a > clearer distinction between (a) who binds the label and propagates the > binding, and (b) which MPLS table is used for the look up. > > > --f403045c118ea7ff79055a68f175 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mrses=C2=A0Xuxiaohu &=C2=A0Xiejingrong, your comments are late, b= road and generic in nature. Generally, I don't think they point out any= technical defects that merit attention but extend alternative ideas, seek = clarification and alternative text to be written.=C2=A0

=
* Fo= r alternative ideas we encourage procurement of new drafts
* For cl= arification people on this list will chime in if necessary whereas MPLS as = idea/papers/minutes/technology/deployed products exist for many, many years= and literature is widely available for consultation
* For suggesti= ons along the lines of alternative text of the draft I observe that the WG = LC has been very long and very extensive and is closed since long time. The= document @ this point in time is in the hands of Directorate & IESG re= viewers. Obviously, nits and serious technical defects are still of interes= t but I don't see neither in your mails

<= span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px;white-space:nowrap">thanks=C2= =A0

-- tony=C2=A0

On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Xi= ejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote:

Anothe= r minor point:

chap 3= has a title "Imposing and Processing the BIER Encapsulation".=C2= =A0 Should this chap focus on specifying the data-plane aspect ?<= /u>

The 1/= 2/3/4/5/6 and a/b/c/d is not very continuous, and they seems to be control-= plane and data-plane respectively.

There = are paragraphs about BFIR (with a/b/c/d) processing, intermediate BFR proce= ssing, but BFER/BUD processing is only implied in the last paragraph.

=C2=A0

Again,= chap 3 describe "An MPLS label stack is then prepended to the packet.= This label stack [RFC3032] will contain one label, the aforementioned BIER= -MPLS label."

I wond= er, If the whole label stack only allow One label, =C2=A0will the ability/p= ossibility to run over a MPLS transport-network lost ? =C2=A0=

I am c= onfused, which level is BIER belong to in OSI 7-levels mode, compared to th= e traditional layer 2.5 MPLS 'tunnel' ?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=E5=8F=91= =E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Xiejingrong
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97= =B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B49=E6=9C=88= 30=E6=97=A5 10:41
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: 'Eric C Rosen' <erosen@juniper.net>; Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com<= /a>>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:<= /b> Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>; bier@ietf.org; draft-ietf-bier-mpls-e= ncapsulation@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Bier] AD re= view of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-08

=C2=A0

Hi, Tony and Rosen,

Thanks a lot for answe= ring my question in detail. I still have some concern:

Suppose 1 SD, 64bit BS= L, with a 65536 BFERs, then every router will consume 1024 per-platform dow= nstream-assigned labels. how about 256 SDs then ?

If replaced with one P= er-SD Per-router 1 context-label and 1024 upstream-assigned BIER-label, the= n per-platform Labels will saved and allocing BIER-label will be easy.

Bier-mvpn begin using = upstream-assigned label. Need open the door more ?

=C2=A0

=E5=8F=91= =E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Eric C Rosen [mailto:erosen@juniper.net]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97= =B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B49=E6=9C=88= 29=E6=97=A5 22:20
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Xiejingrong <= xiejingrong@huawei.com>; Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com<= /span>>= ; bier@ietf.org; draft-ietf-bier-mpl= s-encapsulation@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Bier] AD review of draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation= -08

=C2=A0

= On 9/29/2017 8:29 AM, Xiejingrong wrote:

=C2=A0

Yes, MPLS is MP-Label-= Switch, and MPLS-Labels are traditional downstream-assigned and locally.

But, one example, draf= t-ietf-bier-mvpn-07 define BIER used in MVPN, and use an upstream-assigned = MPLS-Label as VPN-label.

Does it implied the up= stream-assigned label is also REAL MPLS ?

=
The upstream-assigned label used in bier-mvpn=C2=A0 is not the BIER-MPLS la= bel, it is part of the BIER payload.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The upstream-assigned labe= l is not interpreted by the BIER layer, and has no impact on the BIER forwa= rding process.=C2=A0 It belongs to the MVPN overlay layer.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Another example, draft= -ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-09 add chap 5, and it says "IEEE ha= s been requested to assign ethertype TBD1 for non-MPLS BIER packets".

Upstream-assigned labe= ls with a precursor context-label, also use a Eth with old ethertype 0x8847= .

How should we differ &= #39;MPLS networks' and 'Non-MPLS Networks' in this draft ?

=
When using the non-MPLS encapsulation, the ethertype would NOT be 0x8847, b= ut rather some new value to be assigned by IEEE.

To get back to your original question ...

I have a question: Why= BIER-MPLS labels must be downstream-assigned MPLS labels ?

Although in current BI= ER using IGP , =C2=A0MPLS labels to (SD, SI, BSL) are downstream-assigned, = BUT there may be other Possibility, for example when considering use a controller.

I advice remove this l= imit, or describe this limit as a case of using IGP.

=
This document is about the dataplane, so we need to look at this from the d= ataplane perspective.

In the dataplane, it doesn't really=C2=A0 matter what procedure was use= d to bind the label, all that matter is what procedure you use to look up t= he label.

Suppose the mpls encapsulation is being used.=C2=A0 When a router first rec= eives a BIER packet, it appears to be an ordinary MPLS packet.=C2=A0 The ro= uter does not know=C2=A0 that it is a BIER packet until after it looks up t= he top label.=C2=A0 Therefore the BIER-MPLS label must be looked up in the same label space that the router would use for looking= up the top label in any other MPLS packet it receives.=C2=A0 There is no s= pecial "BIER context" that can be derived before looking up the t= op label, so it cannot be in a context-specific label space.

In the case of an "upstream-assigned label with a precursor context-la= bel and an ethertype of 0x8847", the context-label is treated as "= ;downstream-assigned", in that it is looked up in the ordinary MPLS ta= ble.=C2=A0 The upstream-assigned label following it would then be looked up in the MPLS label table that is identified by
context label.

If the BIER-MPLS labels were assigned and distributed by a controller, the = routers would still need to do the lookups in the ordinary MPLS label table= (not a context-specific table), and hence the labels would still function = in the dataplane as downstream-assigned labels.

With ten years of hindsight, one can see that RFC 5331 should have made a c= learer distinction between (a) who binds the label and propagates the bindi= ng, and (b) which MPLS table is used for the look up.=C2=A0



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