From nobody Sun Apr 1 11:15:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B356A120454; Sun, 1 Apr 2018 11:15:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions@ietf.org, Hooman Bidgoli , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, bier-chairs@ietf.org, hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com, bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.76.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152260650369.23739.8451982939109898752.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2018 11:15:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2018 18:15:04 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for addressing my DISCUSS From nobody Sun Apr 1 11:19:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924681201FA for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2018 11:19:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b_lxyRbSzNtm for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2018 11:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot0-x22c.google.com (mail-ot0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 033AE12706D for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2018 11:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id h8-v6so13792315oti.6 for ; Sun, 01 Apr 2018 11:19:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qhRvA/wLNybbA89U0EtF9tL3jZ9/KkerhvpB1+tZApo=; b=cG1iAKdeXAZNxuyMwip+AA5Lk8pWhq9wXAjpKk9lqdg5e6D4LSEoc6KHjtkzvykyDT wONIoOpAanVeqsVXxa0Pzm0jc5bkx15q3GFfCxxInKAzVI1gQfQzF96TfXpysbxj0Ns7 Qh1ETTAG1K4QNgzo9OpcVc1BWD7hdIaKPzEUFyD1OHYVlIwduwZo/XCSHje7WJmB79uV BIz2baLEMqYTSg9n5HvMGExdKCMbArDngiDSvISTWzJrpbT4wRKa2lnSrrVaOIDLrQZ3 owajJ7bUGU4btV/4UuL61ljgaEXL+Qn9HWbXq5jDbfkfiGfv0WDVZR9wZyKOBILNDGDN q8JQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qhRvA/wLNybbA89U0EtF9tL3jZ9/KkerhvpB1+tZApo=; b=DFQ5KInqhZWYg22xwL0pp1j+8EBeBbK6u+eLmAIn185MTZoGF8fFwGSIxUoIApQCZS FOumSeaLK9XdT9sqWgLSHnAntD5rIDl4eJNSYbidh2p8ggml7ot0EexBQ/fwp2YWLqdi K9gxqV1KAH6pMXyH/e9dIPCxQC+omMYdhL7pAaB0V5VUVjCT/k8e2JyO6ja+sd18Jqkf 2O42fSrMXjnbNZdcIfzMFg5M4qqf0Mp1XLNc/SFSpdelJIi20aTWwiSdQysodndMPENR cP8RLjuubgggM2RZROSPkg2AeeMXUlPg+Rni2iNuBcLHXV8piT/0ml8gNrnsIWyA9pOP MrzA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tBtgwh3FBY8WBEu0HtctuOq99fZZVqEefoNK9RsmntYzEUOWRds cNvkMCk3li0tnTTJ99bXyTQMLi7I6wxCuhaAxo7eSA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4+deVMUpof+wtVPUfqMDjIGa/4u47nTq9srbYp1Aann+b3oC5ekhI+pijfJxkq8uCMpXDexjmTzJfdo/Sg8vQ8= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:26d4:: with SMTP id i20-v6mr3700807otd.214.1522606781022; Sun, 01 Apr 2018 11:19:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.138.18.130 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Apr 2018 11:19:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <67c2dc1792974d8db3746042d638e10e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <151923384986.9826.9021725692873708788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <22d87ac3-eabd-784b-da03-8929e5cb00f5@juniper.net> <45b40b35-dc98-fb23-e549-a7eda2aa6aeb@juniper.net> <99bf13289a44450a86508aa22bd12bf0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <67c2dc1792974d8db3746042d638e10e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2018 11:19:00 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: Eric C Rosen , "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , "bier-chairs@ietf.org" , BIER WG , The IESG , "draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000050d85d0568cd8487" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2018 18:19:45 -0000 --00000000000050d85d0568cd8487 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you. I have cleared my DISCUSS On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Eric =E2=80=93 > > > > V11 of the IS-IS draft has been posted which we believe addresses your > concerns regarding the Security section. > > If you agree, please clear your DISCUSS. > > If not, please let us know why. > > > > Thanx. > > > > Les > > > > > > *From:* Eric Rescorla > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 20, 2018 11:24 PM > > *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > *Cc:* Eric C Rosen ; Reshad Rahman (rrahman) < > rrahman@cisco.com>; bier-chairs@ietf.org; BIER WG ; The > IESG ; draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on > draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS) > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 5:48 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) < > ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote: > > Eric =E2=80=93 > > > > What Eric Rosen said was (some emphasis added): > > > > *=E2=80=9COne could cause an amplification attack by modifying the data p= acket's > in-flight. Or one could compromise an ingress BFR (BFIR) and set all the > bits in the BIER BitString. These attacks are mentioned in the Security > Considerations section of RFC 8279.* > > > > *However, I don't think there is anything one can do to the OSPF or ISIS > control messages that would cause an amplification attack.* > > > > *The BFIR decides which hosts are to receive a packet. In making this > decision, it is not influenced by the IGP control messages. When creating > the encapsulation, the BFIR sets one bit in the encapsulation for each > destination host. The information in the OSPF/ISIS extensions is used to > construct the forwarding tables that map each bit in the encapsulation in= to > a set of next hops for the host that is identified by that bit.* > > > > *If a BFR receives a packet with n bits set, it may have to replicate the > packet and forward multiple copies. However, a given bit will only be se= t > in one copy of the packet.* > > > > *So I don't see how one could mount an amplification attack by modifying > the OSPF/ISIS messages.=E2=80=9D* > > > > If (as you suggest below) you are not satisfied with the discussion in RF= C > 8279 then the proper thing to do is to suggest an update to RFC 8279 =E2= =80=93 not > to insert a discussion of BIER security issues into the IGP drafts. > > > > Sorry, I also don't agree with this. BIER provides a mechanism for the > routing of the multicast packets but not for setting up the topology. It > leaves open how that topology is set up. These documents describe how to > set up that topology and permit that topology to be set up in a way that = is > subject to attack by on-path attackers. The discussion of the security > impact of that decision is therefore properly in these documents. > > > > -Ekr > > > > > > > > Note that the BIER IS-IS draft already includes the statement: > > > > *=E2=80=9CBIER specific security considerations are discussed in [RFC8279= ].=E2=80=9D* > > > > I would suggest that the same statement be added to the BIER OSPF draft. > > > > Les > > > > > > *From:* Eric Rescorla > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 20, 2018 4:28 PM > *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > *Cc:* Eric C Rosen ; Reshad Rahman (rrahman) < > rrahman@cisco.com>; bier-chairs@ietf.org; BIER WG ; The > IESG ; draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on > draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS) > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) < > ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote: > > Eric =E2=80=93 > > > > (Speaking as author of BIER IS-IS draft =E2=80=93 which I assume would re= quire > equivalent changes) > > I appreciate the careful review you have done =E2=80=93 and the meaningfu= l > discussion you and Eric Rosen have had. > > > > If we spent our lives recording everything which is =E2=80=9CNOT a risk= =E2=80=9D in every > draft we would have much less available time and much longer and less > readable drafts. > > > > The purpose of the Security Considerations section is to accurately > document the security properties of the system. This includes attacks tha= t > it protects against. > > > > > > If you are satisfied with the Security discussion in the BIER architectur= e > drafts I propose we leave it at that and allow the BIER IGP drafts to > proceed as is. > > > > I didn't say I was satisfied with them. I said that between the drafts an= d > Eric's explanation I was convinced this wasn't a problem. But other peopl= e > will not have the benefit of that interaction. For that reason, and given > that we know people will run the IGP in an unauthenticated mode, I think > it's important to document what the consequences of compromise of the IGP > are. Something like Eric's note should suffice. > > > > -Ekr > > > > I believe they have accurately captured what are the security issues > associated with the IGP BIER extensions and I believe the BIER architectu= re > RFCs have done a good job detailing the security issues associated with > BIER itself. I believe that is exactly what is appropriate and what is > needed. > > > > Thanx. > > > > Les > > > > > > *From:* BIER *On Behalf Of *Eric Rescorla > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 20, 2018 2:49 PM > *To:* Eric C Rosen > *Cc:* Reshad Rahman (rrahman) ; bier-chairs@ietf.org; > BIER WG ; The IESG ; > draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on > draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS) > > > > Thanks. Based on this and a review of the BIER architecture I agree with > this assessment. > > > > I think some text to this effect would be useful in the specification so > it's clear why the risk is low. Would it be a problem to add some? > > > > -Ekr > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 6:58 PM, Eric C Rosen wrote: > > On 3/15/2018 2:41 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: > > Because this is multicast, what I'm concerned with is whether it's > possible to manipulate the routing fabric to mount a serious amplificatio= n > attack. E.g., to cause a set of packets which should only have been sent = to > a small number of hosts to be amplified and sent to a large number of > hosts. This seems like would be qualitatively different from just rerouti= ng > unicast traffic. Is this possible (assuming that the routing layer is not > secured?) > > > One could cause an amplification attack by modifying the data packet's > in-flight. Or one could compromise an ingress BFR (BFIR) and set all the > bits in the BIER BitString. These attacks are mentioned in the Security > Considerations section of RFC 8279. > > However, I don't think there is anything one can do to the OSPF or ISIS > control messages that would cause an amplification attack. > > The BFIR decides which hosts are to receive a packet. In making this > decision, it is not influenced by the IGP control messages. When creating > the encapsulation, the BFIR sets one bit in the encapsulation for each > destination host. The information in the OSPF/ISIS extensions is used to > construct the forwarding tables that map each bit in the encapsulation in= to > a set of next hops for the host that is identified by that bit. > > If a BFR receives a packet with n bits set, it may have to replicate the > packet and forward multiple copies. However, a given bit will only be se= t > in one copy of the packet. > > So I don't see how one could mount an amplification attack by modifying > the OSPF/ISIS messages. > > > > > > > --00000000000050d85d0568cd8487 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you. I have cleared my DISCUSS

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 3:21 PM, = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:

Eric =E2=80=93

=C2=A0

V11 of the IS-IS draft has been poste= d which we believe addresses your concerns regarding the Security section.<= u>

If you agree, please clear your DISCU= SS.

If not, please let us know why.

=C2=A0

Thanx.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2018 11:24 PM


To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>; Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com>; bier-chairs@ietf.org= ; BIER WG <bier@i= etf.org>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensi= ons@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bier-o= spf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 5:48 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsb= erg) <ginsberg@c= isco.com> wrote:

Eric =E2=80=93

=C2=A0

What Eric Rosen said was (some emphas= is added):

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9COne could cause an amplification attack by modif= ying the data packet's in-flight.=C2=A0 Or one could compromise an ingr= ess BFR (BFIR) and set all the bits in the BIER BitString.=C2=A0 These attacks are mentioned in the Security Considerations section of RF= C 8279.

=C2=A0

However, I don't think there is anything one can d= o to the OSPF or ISIS control messages that would cause an amplification at= tack.

=C2=A0

The BFIR decides which hosts are to receive a packet.=C2= =A0 In making this decision, it is not influenced by the IGP control messag= es. When creating the encapsulation, the BFIR sets one bit in the encapsulation for each destination host.=C2=A0 The informat= ion in the OSPF/ISIS extensions is used to construct the forwarding tables = that map each bit in the encapsulation into a set of next hops for the host= that is identified by that bit.

=C2=A0

If a BFR receives a packet with n bits set, it may have t= o replicate the packet and forward multiple copies.=C2=A0 However, a given = bit will only be set in one copy of the packet.

=C2=A0

So I don't see how one could mount an amplificatio= n attack by modifying the OSPF/ISIS messages.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

If (as you suggest below) you are not= satisfied with the discussion in RFC 8279 then the proper thing to do is to suggest an update to RFC 8279 =E2=80=93 not to insert a discus= sion of BIER security issues into the IGP drafts.

=C2=A0

Sorry, I also don't agree with this. BIER provid= es a mechanism for the routing of the multicast packets but not for setting= up the topology. It leaves open how that topology is set up. These documen= ts describe how to set up that topology and permit that topology to be set up in a way that is subject to attack b= y on-path attackers. The discussion of the security impact of that decision= is therefore properly in these documents.

=C2=A0

-Ekr

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Note that the BIER IS-IS draft alread= y includes the statement:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CBIER specific security considerations are discus= sed in [RFC8279].=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

I would suggest that the same stateme= nt be added to the BIER OSPF draft.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<= u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2018 4:28 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>; Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com>; bier-chairs@ietf.= org; BIER WG <bie= r@ietf.org>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org


Subject: Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bier-o= spf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Les Ginsberg (gins= berg) <ginsberg@= cisco.com> wrote:

Eric =E2=80=93

=C2=A0

(Speaking as author of BIER IS-IS dra= ft =E2=80=93 which I assume would require equivalent changes)=

I appreciate the careful review you h= ave done =E2=80=93 and the meaningful discussion you and Eric Rosen have had.

=C2=A0

If we spent our lives recording every= thing which is =E2=80=9CNOT a risk=E2=80=9D in every draft we would have mu= ch less available time and much longer and less readable drafts.

=C2=A0

The purpose of the Security Considerations section i= s to accurately document the security properties of the system. This includ= es attacks that it protects against.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

If you are satisfied with the Securit= y discussion in the BIER architecture drafts I propose we leave it at that and allow the BIER IGP drafts to proceed as is.

=C2=A0

I didn't say I was satisfied with them. I said t= hat between the drafts and Eric's explanation I was convinced this wasn= 't a problem. But other people will not have the benefit of that interaction. For that reason, and given that we know people will run = the IGP in an unauthenticated mode, I think it's important to document = what the consequences of compromise of the IGP are. Something like Eric'= ;s note should suffice.

=C2=A0

-Ekr

=C2=A0

I believe they have accurately captur= ed what are the security issues associated with the IGP BIER extensions and I believe the BIER architecture RFCs have done a good job detailing th= e security issues associated with BIER itself. I believe that is exactly wh= at is appropriate and what is needed.

=C2=A0

Thanx.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Eric Rescorla
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2018 2:49 PM
To: Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>
Cc: Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com>; bier-chairs@ietf.= org; BIER WG <bie= r@ietf.org>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bier-o= spf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS)

=C2=A0

Thanks. Based on this and a review of the BIER archi= tecture I agree with this assessment.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I think some text to this effect would be useful in = the specification so it's clear why the risk is low. Would it be a prob= lem to add some?

=C2=A0

-Ekr

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 6:58 PM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net> wrote:

On 3/15/2018 2:41 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote:=

Because this is multicast, what I'm concerned wi= th is whether it's possible to manipulate the routing fabric to mount a= serious amplification attack. E.g., to cause a set of packets which should only have been sent to a small number of hosts to be amplifie= d and sent to a large number of hosts. This seems like would be qualitative= ly different from just rerouting unicast traffic. Is this possible (assumin= g that the routing layer is not secured?)


One could cause an amplification attack by modifying the data packet's = in-flight.=C2=A0 Or one could compromise an ingress BFR (BFIR) and set all = the bits in the BIER BitString.=C2=A0 These attacks are mentioned in the Se= curity Considerations section of RFC 8279.

However, I don't think there is anything one can do to the OSPF or ISIS= control messages that would cause an amplification attack.

The BFIR decides which hosts are to receive a packet.=C2=A0 In making this = decision, it is not influenced by the IGP control messages. When creating t= he encapsulation, the BFIR sets one bit in the encapsulation for each desti= nation host.=C2=A0 The information in the OSPF/ISIS extensions is used to construct the forwarding tables that map e= ach bit in the encapsulation into a set of next hops for the host that is i= dentified by that bit.

If a BFR receives a packet with n bits set, it may have to replicate the pa= cket and forward multiple copies.=C2=A0 However, a given bit will only be s= et in one copy of the packet.

So I don't see how one could mount an amplification attack by modifying= the OSPF/ISIS messages.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


--00000000000050d85d0568cd8487-- From nobody Tue Apr 3 05:01:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54227120727; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 05:01:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ignas Bagdonas To: "The IESG" Cc: bier-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bier-architecture@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, bier@ietf.org, bier-chairs@ietf.org, Greg Shepherd , Tony Przygienda X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.77.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152275687232.14004.18356441912420041444.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 05:01:12 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Ignas Bagdonas' Yes on status-change-bier-core-to-proposed-standard-01 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 12:01:12 -0000 Ignas Bagdonas has entered the following ballot position for status-change-bier-core-to-proposed-standard-01: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/status-change-bier-core-to-proposed-standard/ There are no remarks associated with this position. From nobody Tue Apr 3 08:55:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C48112895E; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 08:55:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.77.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152277090560.22759.18272784179061341617@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 08:55:05 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:55:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : OSPFv2 Extensions for BIER Authors : Peter Psenak Nagendra Kumar IJsbrand Wijnands Andrew Dolganow Tony Przygienda Jeffrey Zhang Sam Aldrin Filename : draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2018-04-03 Abstract: Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that provides multicast forwarding through a "BIER domain" without requiring intermediate routers to maintain multicast related per-flow state. Neither does BIER require an explicit tree-building protocol for its operation. A multicast data packet enters a BIER domain at a "Bit-Forwarding Ingress Router" (BFIR), and leaves the BIER domain at one or more "Bit-Forwarding Egress Routers" (BFERs). The BFIR router adds a BIER header to the packet. Such header contains a bit-string in which each bit represents exactly one BFER to forward the packet to. The set of BFERs to which the multicast packet needs to be forwarded is expressed by the according set of bits set in BIER packet header. This document describes the OSPF [RFC2328] protocol extension required for BIER with MPLS encapsulation [RFC8296]. Support for other encapsulation types is outside thescope of this document. The use of multiple encapsulation types is outside the scope of this document. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Apr 3 13:35:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84B7612D872 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:35:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8nee9T_4S329 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x22d.google.com (mail-it0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B1F312D870 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id 19-v6so24529986itw.3 for ; Tue, 03 Apr 2018 13:35:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=aSQNbNv9F4SfjrrXmVJHaYaTXdRNsPTl+zn3ZoolMRs=; b=OkVzVBVRROUINHaKo/UlPGWGcY3fToYb+V4qjVtO5CdoIw1YNNKwiqlLlowqloJy+e 3+ezCv64gBXBwGyCmoSyThwGseZc3UfUVDBo+wj/e3KBID/GIN8ROtCDbpC56CqlKP4Q 3Lo0njO3+7R4Ff+PcXJQiSpwihOVYlzJ9g7wvt+uelStIu1FbpGfW0miYXgeWSM7/PUU nMgIOLuV3B3XWzOOXoQbLyy4ZDPlQh7+VIEfFz/b3Eh9yvzjttcMyr4720Ru9qaERlZ6 K2d5aLIuy4QrA7asY5jmJuuMa9gnyRyUIhbOP+Zo/fO0g3GRLl7o0YejxYge7IR6Ye0x BIoQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aSQNbNv9F4SfjrrXmVJHaYaTXdRNsPTl+zn3ZoolMRs=; b=kicK9bk9ad2lOBUoL3SCEjModvi0XfsnQ3+gUtcIZarHXj/M4Ko/d69Q8IatOTuM3W N2oL7akHfysyI2TNF5txcfk0qcOyrZQg2WvLdUTbVwrf4dT5ErHNxo2yXUEc8BDTpyMA dqTRb6qUR4AGqrF5M9ifJI3aYlEiOfl6ZXnFT0L6xQfD5jf9mevyLmaVeKXtgOMtS/Fc +kNm/7Y8wBUPUCbL+M2rOMk4OTERp91mBrNranDxrmMgMBZL/Y2MPeuFXfQ6yhVmZ/fn GhpDTIQI16HKhaiHClgRS09p9MRIBz/CNsZzcv58J1MyDZX1B18itFVaRS4vvgfqRdeN pP4g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tCYbBaFmCy9RmmGdi9RM+hwh74ly4ZeXjc0cwj0ofkHvypnIui5 EK4eoK8Zwzj7ZbQm/DANNKLRVySaM7YHcoaHV3U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4+khKlDhVGTXzUyzHIKqtaAJMWkxhR3hSDLt3UtLxp9XRduAanSluI6VLGbQgC8w4kl0V4oZQPUVZit6jcpvtw= X-Received: by 2002:a24:4352:: with SMTP id s79-v6mr6618026itb.84.1522787721568; Tue, 03 Apr 2018 13:35:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.151.13 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <03f0d1dc757344e2918a713c1bda77d3@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <03f0d1dc757344e2918a713c1bda77d3@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> From: Greg Shepherd Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:35:20 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003665690568f7a51e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-zzhang-bier-bar-ipa X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 20:35:24 -0000 --0000000000003665690568f7a51e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Solid support on the list. Thank you to all responders. Authors, Can you rev w/ the WG name and I'll accept. Thanks, Greg (Chairs) On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:33 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > I am not opposed to WG adoption =E2=80=93 but as the content of this draf= t is > quite limited in scope, I am wondering if it deserves to be a document on > its own. > > I could imagine that this content could be incorporated into a future > revision of a broader scoped discussion of algorithm usage (e.g. some > future revision of draft-zzhang-algorithms). > > Seems overkill to have a standalone draft for this limited content. > > > > But if the WG agrees that such a standalone document is the right way to > go I am not opposed. > > > > Les > > > > > > *From:* BIER *On Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 27, 2018 2:05 PM > *To:* BIER WG > *Subject:* [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-zzhang-bier-bar-ipa > > > > There was solid support in the room in London to adopt. Please > read/respond to this thread with/without your support to > adopt draft-zzhang-bier-bar-ipa as a BIER WG item. > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zzhang-bier-bar-ipa/ > > > > Thanks, > > Greg > > (Chairs) > --0000000000003665690568f7a51e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Solid support on the list. Thank you to all responders.=C2= =A0

Authors,
Can you rev w/ the WG name and I&= #39;ll accept.

Thanks,
Greg
(C= hairs)

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:33 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco= .com> wrote:

I am not opposed to WG adoption =E2= =80=93 but as the content of this draft is quite limited in scope, I am won= dering if it deserves to be a document on its own.

I could imagine that this content cou= ld be incorporated into a future revision of a broader scoped discussion of= algorithm usage (e.g. some future revision of draft-zzhang-algorithms).

Seems overkill to have a standalone d= raft for this limited content.

=C2=A0

But if the WG agrees that such a stan= dalone document is the right way to go I am not opposed.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 2:05 PM
To: BIER WG <b= ier@ietf.org>
Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-zzhang-bier-bar-ipa<= u>

=C2=A0

There was solid support in the room in London to ado= pt. Please read/respond to this thread with/without your support to adopt= =C2=A0draft-zzhang-bier-bar-ipa as a BIER WG item.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Greg

(Chairs)


--0000000000003665690568f7a51e-- From nobody Tue Apr 3 13:37:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467D512D870 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:37:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iLAW8siserRt for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x233.google.com (mail-io0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1679B128C0A for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x233.google.com with SMTP id d5so23596032iob.9 for ; Tue, 03 Apr 2018 13:37:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=dhYhe7LFdr480uRyQQHOUGNe9NRcCT4Rs4K99QAtFvQ=; b=I05RFAYQ2/ESDearzzUGQxGxE6+iemK2H8+fhOPkiJ/pLLj4OLbIfHRUMhG+KG4pTx j627QMD3QZ4OsuZDP0JJ6OhIxSwn9njgG7Gdf7atysEdDNO+t66rTAB6Hi3EShiivG8f noWnJTvOZyXeVVmA4jh/9kwkH2T1EnFJ/67oOBZUd9d4acP+fQmBg5evsURTI6bd6HBd u3ZFrAyoq6nGyOBXkhgpuBweg0YNvWDKNciZqBXiX7lqziI6R1orOkBQ9I5J24Z5xdu3 Ao7rQge68nHvhxegXY9i7RsDF5p8KFqSuMF6l1keSScraURb/BIC9pL3H+mPJWBkBXJB dJGw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dhYhe7LFdr480uRyQQHOUGNe9NRcCT4Rs4K99QAtFvQ=; b=qBsSCprAwYNF4H1jqDS1J7KA5DhPVbc2b4Ee2Z7Mvidm7JuEzyP9fjuiPz3a/WJHWn BSb4e4q3lzuiJeAUJ5c2azrzK/LXEFmiKvdmk67gb0La5sfw2G6SIP+3dx0llXOuvcup TV8unD5WEqdRRBLllBIIsAzSePwqWkyt59gt8/Dd+C5ZoDD+f5m3cctqWi0FsSe5al/4 dsjLqU8j+tu0pNzIUepHjXD5K40KOyjfq5ZxoqaojuRW7vqy0kk7Al+IVRvK2O2FJ6Dc Vxi2N6rZq/5/i/wYmoZY4QDtjtnuxlXtRCQAeKOeYlnkGguyVmrqMJ734RBwbIYPxypI w/Ow== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7H5av1yig0iigO5oZGwbnjW6hWlFUF2aIxbVOWGSUb450sYcxbG cLOTkRclL5/po5kYYSIVkPERVFCpdcViMkuruDs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx48kVz9Y4aVGHJBn2AKDpqp09gUy2sum3o5/PhLPCjxf7vcZISEro725LPYiF8E90Cv02QDGhzFxfXBeg0rDYeo= X-Received: by 10.107.16.65 with SMTP id y62mr13457041ioi.213.1522787840414; Tue, 03 Apr 2018 13:37:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.151.13 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <81050ae2067547fd9447657962301d34@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <72697141210f42dc801099eee969217d@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <81050ae2067547fd9447657962301d34@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> From: Greg Shepherd Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:37:19 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113f22564be33c0568f7ac81" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-zzhang-algorithms X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 20:37:23 -0000 --001a113f22564be33c0568f7ac81 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I may have jumped a bit on this one, but the discussion has been good. So I don't apologize for anything. :) WG will pass on this doc for now. Resubmit if/when there are updates from this discussion. Thanks, Greg (Chairs) On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:55 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Greg =E2=80=93 > > > > I am not questioning the process. > > You had sufficient input from the room to justify asking the question. > > > > My surprise is that the authors of the draft thought this was the right > time to ask. > > > > Peace. > > > > Les > > > > *From:* Greg Shepherd > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:42 AM > *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > *Cc:* BIER WG > *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-zzhang-algorithms > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) < > ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote: > > Oppose. > > > > I am quite surprised that an adoption call is being requested at this tim= e. > > > > Why? The room showed support, so we take it to the list. It's this proces= s > that triggers these discussions. If the call hadn't been made, this threa= d > allowing everyone to voice their concerns in one place wouldn't exist. :-= ) > > > > Greg > > > > The document as it exists is a placeholder for things which will be > discussed in (to quote the draft) =E2=80=9Cfuture versions=E2=80=9D. > > So the substance of the draft is still TBD. Why then would we consider > this ready for WG adoption? > > > > I would agree that the draft mentions problems of interest to the WG =E2= =80=93 but > this is just the beginning. Please continue to work on/discuss the proble= ms > mentioned in the draft. I would expect at some future time there would be > enough substance/consensus for the WG to consider that the solutions > defined in some future revision are on the right track and deserve WG > status =E2=80=93 but this is much too early to consider WG adoption. > > > > Les > > > > > > *From:* BIER *On Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 27, 2018 2:04 PM > *To:* BIER WG > *Subject:* [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-zzhang-algorithms > > > > We had solid support in London to adopt draft-zzhang-algorithms as a WG > item. Please respond to this thread with/without your support to adopt: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zzhang-bier-algorithm/ > > > > Thanks, > > Greg > > (Chairs) > > > --001a113f22564be33c0568f7ac81 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I may have jumped a bit on this one, but the discussion ha= s been good. So I don't apologize for anything. :)

W= G will pass on this doc for now. Resubmit if/when there are updates from th= is discussion.

Thanks,
Greg
(C= hairs)


On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:55 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <= span dir=3D"ltr"><ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:

Greg =E2=80=93

=C2=A0

I am not questioning the process.<= /u>

You had sufficient input from the roo= m to justify asking the question.

=C2=A0

My surprise is that the authors of th= e draft thought this was the right time to ask.

=C2=A0

Peace.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les=

=C2=A0

From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:42 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: BIER WG <b= ier@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-zzhang-algorithms

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsb= erg) <ginsberg@c= isco.com> wrote:

Oppose.

=C2=A0=C2=A0

I am quite surprised that an adoption= call is being requested at this time.

=C2=A0

Why? The room showed support, so we take it to the l= ist. It's this process that triggers these discussions. If the call had= n't been made, this thread allowing everyone to voice their concerns in= one place wouldn't exist. :-)

=C2=A0

Greg

=C2=A0

The document as it exists is a placeh= older for things which will be discussed in (to quote the draft) =E2=80=9Cfuture versions=E2=80=9D.

So the substance of the draft is stil= l TBD. Why then would we consider this ready for WG adoption?=

=C2=A0

I would agree that the draft mentions= problems of interest to the WG =E2=80=93 but this is just the beginning. Please continue to work on/discuss the problems mentioned in the draft. I = would expect at some future time there would be enough substance/consensus = for the WG to consider that the solutions defined in some future revision a= re on the right track and deserve WG status =E2=80=93 but this is much too early to consider WG adoption.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<= u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 2:04 PM
To: BIER WG <b= ier@ietf.org>
Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-zzhang-algorithms=

=C2=A0

We had solid support in London to adopt =C2=A0draft-= zzhang-algorithms as a WG item. Please respond to this thread with/without = your support to adopt:

=C2=A0


--001a113f22564be33c0568f7ac81-- From nobody Tue Apr 3 14:08:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73AAF120454; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 14:08:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.77.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152278972638.22739.13128513258820736368@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 14:08:46 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-00.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 21:08:46 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : BIER Underlay Path Calculation Algorithm and Contraints Authors : Zhaohui Zhang Antoni Przygienda Andrew Dolganow Hooman Bidgoli IJsbrand Wijnands Arkadiy Gulko Filename : draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-00.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2018-04-03 Abstract: This document specifies general rules for interaction between the BAR and IPA fields defined in [I-D.ietf-bier-isis-extensions] and [I-D.ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions]. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Apr 3 15:38:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51CD12D886; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 15:38:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.96 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.96 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mkATVwJkIk6z; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 15:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42EA51200A0; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 15:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:77]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 816DD58C518; Wed, 4 Apr 2018 00:38:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 684CCB0DF00; Wed, 4 Apr 2018 00:38:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 00:38:02 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery@ietf.org Cc: bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180403223802.GA1919@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-03 comments X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 22:38:08 -0000 Quite nice. Almost makes me not hate PMTUD ;-) Would suggest to add two explanatory things 1) Abstract Sentence like "PMTUD for BIER as described here is significantly easier than PMTUD for IP multicast, because it leverages unique properties of BIER" 2) Add section "comparison with PMTUD for IP multicast" Summarize the claim from abstract, e.g.: a) The network/transport stack of sender in IP multicast has usually no clear understanding who their receivers are, so it is more difficult to figure out when to re-probe. b) Senders in IP multicast can not target any subset of receivers to probe their MTU. In BIER this is at the core of the BIER forwarding mechnism. c) Midpoints in IP multicast with an MTU issue have even less chance to know what subset of receivers is south of the adjacenc with MTU issues (the sender could have application layer mechanisms to know all receivers). In BIER this knowledge is immediately available from the bitstring of the packet causing the issue. d) IP multicast trees can be arbitrarily large, which together with b) and c) has resulted in so many IP Multicast PMTUD that there is no standards IP multicast PMTUD discovery mechanism. In addition to the solutions to a)..c) that BIER provides, the number of receivers for every packet is also limited to the BSL. Or something similar fixing whatever might be wrong or missing in above. Cheers Toerless -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Tue Apr 3 22:16:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE441200FC; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 22:16:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pELIf-4_-ueQ; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 22:16:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84335126DD9; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 22:16:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id AAB2AFF835527; Wed, 4 Apr 2018 06:16:51 +0100 (IST) Received: from BLREML701-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.20.4.170) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Wed, 4 Apr 2018 06:16:53 +0100 Received: from BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.12.113]) by blreml701-cah.china.huawei.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Wed, 4 Apr 2018 10:46:48 +0530 From: Senthil Dhanaraj To: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" , "i-d-announce@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org" CC: "bier@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Comment on draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17.txt // RE: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17.txt Thread-Index: AdPL071fZwbu0dIGQpq91TUUDopTiA== Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 05:16:48 +0000 Message-ID: <9778B23E32FB2745BEA3BE037F185DC4A5BC40D1@BLREML503-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.18.148.65] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Comment on draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17.txt // RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2018 05:16:58 -0000 Hi Peter and Authors, Have a suggestion ! It is better if we could clearly state the procedure to select the "BIER pa= rameters to use" when the same BFR (a.k.a IGP) prefix is advertised by mult= iple BFR's. Text from OSPF RFC 7684, 2.1. OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV If this TLV is advertised multiple times for the same prefix in different OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSAs originated by different OSPFv2 routers, the application using the information is required to = // SEN1 determine which OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA is used. For example, the application could prefer the LSA providing the best path to the prefix. // SEN1: Leave it to specific applications (like SR, BIER) to determine the= rule. Text from draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-24, 7.2. Inter-area S= egment routing in OSPFv2 The Prefix-SID Sub-TLV will be included in this LSA and the Prefix- SID value will be set as follows: The ABR will look at its best path to the prefix in the source = // SEN2=20 area and find the advertising router associated with the best path to that prefix. The ABR will then determine if such router advertised a Prefix-SID = =20 for the prefix and use it when advertising the Prefix-SID to other connected areas. If no Prefix-SID was advertised for the prefix in the source area = // SEN3 by the router that contributes to the best path to the prefix, the originating ABR will use the Prefix-SID advertised by any other router when propagating the Prefix-SID for the prefix to other areas. // SEN2: Select the Prefix-SID TLV from the router which has best path =20 // SEN3: If the router which has best path to the prefix does not advertise= Prefix-SID TLV, then select the other =20 In fact there are two cases here, Case-1: Different routers advertising same prefix with same BIER parameters Case-2: Different routers advertising same prefix with different BIER param= eters (ex: bfr-id is different) Though the SR draft specified this procedure only with respect to case-1 an= d in the context of "Inter-Area" flooding,=20 I believe case-1 & case-2 is applicable for Intra-Area as well to let the B= FR choose one advertising-router or ignore the prefix. My suggestion is, Case-1: Add a text to draft, specify the BFR MUST choose the prefix from a= advertising router which has best path to the prefix Case-2: Do not consider the BFR prefix as valid unless the configuration i= ssue is resolved. Thanks, Senthil -----Original Message----- From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf= .org Sent: 03 April 2018 21:25 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: bier@ietf.org Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the= IETF. Title : OSPFv2 Extensions for BIER Authors : Peter Psenak Nagendra Kumar IJsbrand Wijnands Andrew Dolganow Tony Przygienda Jeffrey Zhang Sam Aldrin Filename : draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2018-04-03 Abstract: Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that provides multicast forwarding through a "BIER domain" without requiring intermediate routers to maintain multicast related per-flow state. Neither does BIER require an explicit tree-building protocol for its operation. A multicast data packet enters a BIER domain at a "Bit-Forwarding Ingress Router" (BFIR), and leaves the BIER domain at one or more "Bit-Forwarding Egress Routers" (BFERs). The BFIR router adds a BIER header to the packet. Such header contains a bit-string in which each bit represents exactly one BFER to forward the packet to. The set of BFERs to which the multicast packet needs to be forwarded is expressed by the according set of bits set in BIER packet header. This document describes the OSPF [RFC2328] protocol extension required for BIER with MPLS encapsulation [RFC8296]. Support for other encapsulation types is outside thescope of this document. The use of multiple encapsulation types is outside the scope of this document. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-= 17 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ BIER mailing list BIER@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier From nobody Wed Apr 4 20:47:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E8F312785F; Wed, 4 Apr 2018 20:47:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla To: "The IESG" Cc: bier-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bier-architecture@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, bier@ietf.org, bier-chairs@ietf.org, Greg Shepherd , Tony Przygienda X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.77.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152290006905.25952.17761936081171732030.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2018 20:47:49 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on status-change-bier-core-to-proposed-standard-01 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2018 03:47:49 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for status-change-bier-core-to-proposed-standard-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/status-change-bier-core-to-proposed-standard/ There are no remarks associated with this position. From nobody Fri Apr 6 02:49:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E36C120725; Fri, 6 Apr 2018 02:49:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4iwsP0C_WklS; Fri, 6 Apr 2018 02:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot0-x229.google.com (mail-ot0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A2AE1241F3; Fri, 6 Apr 2018 02:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot0-x229.google.com with SMTP id o9-v6so566790otj.5; Fri, 06 Apr 2018 02:49:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=G3RzuJkfOmhWOTenilxxZUEAnphJk1BCfo0XmWUarBE=; b=BGqQMsEKWujpnqUND//5pw+LJiyg9UX8oJCQYmj7CBBcI+ZMhoRy6w3gCIOlYp6Gh7 tFcf2euw7AFaVeFbg2jyappDnQN4kk3ciFUioL+J/MPfne8Pcyden3iA8ty9SlSn9Ncv /SZqEAyZJraLRRFJYoxFkl0JBP9wd9NqtKggEi07R26FEKk16/XoUgOiy524sD2RJuoD 5Zx6/IxX/XFoV+BsIf4i94f+F9e+bbfke9aDq6j8QR9NjM1Qaz6Magxal/eLG8xavDpJ VhPW+33COHMmF5vzmr7udswwlOs62FIA1gcHkkq6mbS/Z0vJub1y5hdvgzDJwn76WhpE Cqpw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=G3RzuJkfOmhWOTenilxxZUEAnphJk1BCfo0XmWUarBE=; b=SNiKOsavvvMf93Z7/WWYmjM7Y+0mkEwxIcnpLJFNXIXwqBEAZKRCFsYwx+v0kPCQCO iqSiezVjlOwl+dhrzC4mlzXDvB3LaodauBNwBMI4pLHKJS7M6gck+rSpK8cqbzESRR0V V9ZEznSHN4syFK4QmwysiExeHNW4RGJbBKcu6zQtbI7OCvxuHHlX3bTvWydWrZRLfmJl koEa0uKUYmSu6gpDafnTiIOj0RACKgVPNyI0LJIfgdj3vHMedNIiv+z4jJ5Ou4D+TO7T QPzddyyLflSPAcqUgNT1sx3eu+R2JhLjfXOzGt9f+W3An8n8+KfyXWsiHyO068qkBzbp GCSg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tA4Dd6+Qp2mmmvj63Szcdgo74RLQQw4gHKMVKHV3Gqy73X8P2Rt S+IM+Hu4TikBJhS6Uf4Bz/cB//jcv/TC4VY0wlg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4/8WL1Ci6RXYsJalsRfQtz2Jl6Fy2XqM38awXxfiySUwINRpd3MNsHJm9CHbU6O33Zr8cYa8x8KvmawF+KeQ4Y= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:16f3:: with SMTP id s48-v6mr2028639ots.304.1523008159353; Fri, 06 Apr 2018 02:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 6 Apr 2018 05:49:18 -0400 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: References: <151923384986.9826.9021725692873708788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <22d87ac3-eabd-784b-da03-8929e5cb00f5@juniper.net> <45b40b35-dc98-fb23-e549-a7eda2aa6aeb@juniper.net> <99bf13289a44450a86508aa22bd12bf0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> X-Mailer: Airmail (467) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 05:49:18 -0400 Message-ID: To: Eric Rescorla , "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" Cc: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , Eric C Rosen , "bier-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , BIER WG , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000054111705692af8fb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2018 09:49:24 -0000 --00000000000054111705692af8fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nagendra/Eric: Hi! Where are we on this document? It looks like this was the last OSPF-related message in the thread (the next two were about the ISIS version). An update (-17) was posted after this message with changes to the Security Considerations [1]. Does that address the open issues? Thanks! Alvaro. [1] https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-16= &url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-17 On March 21, 2018 at 1:06:43 PM, Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar) ( naikumar@cisco.com) wrote: Hi Eric Rescorla, Sorry, I also don't agree with this. BIER provides a mechanism for the routing of the multicast packets but not for setting up the topology. It leaves open how that topology is set up. These documents describe how to set up that topology and permit that topology to be set up in a way that is subject to attack by on-path attackers. The discussion of the security impact of that decision is therefore properly in these documents. BIER OSPF extensions leverages the existing topology setup mechanism and advertises additional details for BIER forwarding. OSPF extensions does not control or map the receivers to each multicast stream. This document does not define any changes in SPF computation and follow the unicast path to the relevant prefixes associated with BFR-ID. I think, compromising the extension defined in this draft may need one to modify domain/topology/BFR ID, algorithms or the label. In any of these cases, I think the packet will result in black holing. I don=E2=80=99t thin= k compromising any of these fields will result in populating the forwarding table to rewrite the header with additional bits which I think is required for amplification attack. Thanks, Nagendra *From: *Eric Rescorla *Date: *Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:25 AM *To: *"Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" *Cc: *Eric C Rosen , "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" < rrahman@cisco.com>, "bier-chairs@ietf.org" , BIER WG = < bier@ietf.org>, The IESG , " draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org" < draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org> *Subject: *Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS) *Resent-From: * *Resent-To: *, Nagendra Kumar Nainar , IJsbrand Wijnands , , < prz@juniper.net>, , *Resent-Date: *Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:25 AM On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 5:48 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: Eric =E2=80=93 What Eric Rosen said was (some emphasis added): *=E2=80=9COne could cause an amplification attack by modifying the data pac= ket's in-flight. Or one could compromise an ingress BFR (BFIR) and set all the bits in the BIER BitString. These attacks are mentioned in the Security Considerations section of RFC 8279.* *However, I don't think there is anything one can do to the OSPF or ISIS control messages that would cause an amplification attack.* *The BFIR decides which hosts are to receive a packet. In making this decision, it is not influenced by the IGP control messages. When creating the encapsulation, the BFIR sets one bit in the encapsulation for each destination host. The information in the OSPF/ISIS extensions is used to construct the forwarding tables that map each bit in the encapsulation into a set of next hops for the host that is identified by that bit.* *If a BFR receives a packet with n bits set, it may have to replicate the packet and forward multiple copies. However, a given bit will only be set in one copy of the packet.* *So I don't see how one could mount an amplification attack by modifying the OSPF/ISIS messages.=E2=80=9D* If (as you suggest below) you are not satisfied with the discussion in RFC 8279 then the proper thing to do is to suggest an update to RFC 8279 =E2=80= =93 not to insert a discussion of BIER security issues into the IGP drafts. Sorry, I also don't agree with this. BIER provides a mechanism for the routing of the multicast packets but not for setting up the topology. It leaves open how that topology is set up. These documents describe how to set up that topology and permit that topology to be set up in a way that is subject to attack by on-path attackers. The discussion of the security impact of that decision is therefore properly in these documents. -Ekr Note that the BIER IS-IS draft already includes the statement: *=E2=80=9CBIER specific security considerations are discussed in [RFC8279].= =E2=80=9D* I would suggest that the same statement be added to the BIER OSPF draft. Les *From:* Eric Rescorla *Sent:* Tuesday, March 20, 2018 4:28 PM *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) *Cc:* Eric C Rosen ; Reshad Rahman (rrahman) < rrahman@cisco.com>; bier-chairs@ietf.org; BIER WG ; The IESG ; draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS) On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) < ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote: Eric =E2=80=93 (Speaking as author of BIER IS-IS draft =E2=80=93 which I assume would requ= ire equivalent changes) I appreciate the careful review you have done =E2=80=93 and the meaningful discussion you and Eric Rosen have had. If we spent our lives recording everything which is =E2=80=9CNOT a risk=E2= =80=9D in every draft we would have much less available time and much longer and less readable drafts. The purpose of the Security Considerations section is to accurately document the security properties of the system. This includes attacks that it protects against. If you are satisfied with the Security discussion in the BIER architecture drafts I propose we leave it at that and allow the BIER IGP drafts to proceed as is. I didn't say I was satisfied with them. I said that between the drafts and Eric's explanation I was convinced this wasn't a problem. But other people will not have the benefit of that interaction. For that reason, and given that we know people will run the IGP in an unauthenticated mode, I think it's important to document what the consequences of compromise of the IGP are. Something like Eric's note should suffice. -Ekr I believe they have accurately captured what are the security issues associated with the IGP BIER extensions and I believe the BIER architecture RFCs have done a good job detailing the security issues associated with BIER itself. I believe that is exactly what is appropriate and what is needed. Thanx. Les *From:* BIER *On Behalf Of *Eric Rescorla *Sent:* Tuesday, March 20, 2018 2:49 PM *To:* Eric C Rosen *Cc:* Reshad Rahman (rrahman) ; bier-chairs@ietf.org; BIER WG ; The IESG ; draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS) Thanks. Based on this and a review of the BIER architecture I agree with this assessment. I think some text to this effect would be useful in the specification so it's clear why the risk is low. Would it be a problem to add some? -Ekr On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 6:58 PM, Eric C Rosen wrote: On 3/15/2018 2:41 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: Because this is multicast, what I'm concerned with is whether it's possible to manipulate the routing fabric to mount a serious amplification attack. E.g., to cause a set of packets which should only have been sent to a small number of hosts to be amplified and sent to a large number of hosts. This seems like would be qualitatively different from just rerouting unicast traffic. Is this possible (assuming that the routing layer is not secured?) One could cause an amplification attack by modifying the data packet's in-flight. Or one could compromise an ingress BFR (BFIR) and set all the bits in the BIER BitString. These attacks are mentioned in the Security Considerations section of RFC 8279. However, I don't think there is anything one can do to the OSPF or ISIS control messages that would cause an amplification attack. The BFIR decides which hosts are to receive a packet. In making this decision, it is not influenced by the IGP control messages. When creating the encapsulation, the BFIR sets one bit in the encapsulation for each destination host. The information in the OSPF/ISIS extensions is used to construct the forwarding tables that map each bit in the encapsulation into a set of next hops for the host that is identified by that bit. If a BFR receives a packet with n bits set, it may have to replicate the packet and forward multiple copies. However, a given bit will only be set in one copy of the packet. So I don't see how one could mount an amplification attack by modifying the OSPF/ISIS messages. _______________________________________________ BIER mailing list BIER@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier --00000000000054111705692af8fb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Nagendra/Eric:

Hi!

Where are we on this document?=C2=A0 It looks like this was the last OSP= F-related message in the thread (the next two were about the ISIS version).=

An update (-17) was = posted after this message with changes to the Security Considerations [1].= =C2=A0 Does that address the open issues?

Thanks!

Alvaro.


On March 21, 2018 at 1:06:43 PM, Nagendra Kumar Nainar (nai= kumar) (naikumar@cisco.com) wrote= :

Hi Eric Rescorla,

=C2=A0

<Eric> Sorry, I also don't agree with this= . BIER provides a mechanism for the routing of the multicast packets but no= t for setting up the topology. It leaves open how that topology is set up. = These documents describe how to set up that topology and permit that topology to be set up in a way that is subject to= attack by on-path attackers. The discussion of the security impact of that= decision is therefore properly in these documents.

=C2=A0

<Nagendra> BIER OSPF extensions leverages the = existing topology setup mechanism and advertises additional details for BIE= R forwarding. OSPF extensions does not control or map the receivers to each= multicast stream. This document does not define any changes in SPF computation and follow the unicast path to the r= elevant prefixes associated with BFR-ID. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

I think, compromising the extension defined in this = draft may need one to modify domain/topology/BFR ID, algorithms or the labe= l. In any of these cases, I think the packet will result in black holing. I= don=E2=80=99t think compromising any of these fields will result in populating the forwarding table to rewrite the heade= r with additional bits which I think is required for amplification attack.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Nagendra

=C2=A0

From= : Eric Rescorla <= ;ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:25 AM
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: Eric C Rosen <erosen@ju= niper.net>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, "bier-chairs@ietf.org" <bier-chairs@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.o= rg" <draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bier-o= spf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS)
Resent-From: <alias-bou= nces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: <ppsenak@cisco.co= m>, Nagendra Kumar Nainar <= naikumar@cisco.com>, IJsbrand Wijnands <ice@cisco.com>, <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com>, <prz@juniper.net>, <zzha= ng@juniper.net>, <aldrin= .ietf@gmail.com>
Resent-Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:25 AM

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2= =A0

On We= d, Mar 21, 2018 at 5:48 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:

Eric =E2=80=93

=C2=A0

What Eric Rosen said was (some emphasis added):

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9COne could cause an amplification attack by modifying the data= packet's in-flight.=C2=A0 Or one could compromise an ingress BFR (BFIR= ) and set all the bits in the BIER BitString.=C2=A0 These attacks are mentioned in the Security Considerations section of RF= C 8279.

=C2=A0

However, I don't think there is anything one can do to the OSPF= or ISIS control messages that would cause an amplification attack.<= /i>

=C2=A0

The BFIR decides which hosts are to receive a packet.=C2=A0 In making = this decision, it is not influenced by the IGP control messages. When creat= ing the encapsulation, the BFIR sets one bit in the encapsulation for each destination host.=C2=A0 The information = in the OSPF/ISIS extensions is used to construct the forwarding tables that= map each bit in the encapsulation into a set of next hops for the host tha= t is identified by that bit.

=C2=A0

If a BFR receives a packet with n bits set, it may have to replicate t= he packet and forward multiple copies.=C2=A0 However, a given bit will only= be set in one copy of the packet.

=C2=A0

So I don't see how one could mount an amplification attack by m= odifying the OSPF/ISIS messages.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

If (as you suggest below) you are not satisfied with the discuss= ion in RFC 8279 then the proper thing to do is to suggest an update to RFC 8279 =E2=80=93 not to insert a discussio= n of BIER security issues into the IGP drafts.

=C2= =A0

Sorry= , I also don't agree with this. BIER provides a mechanism for the routi= ng of the multicast packets but not for setting up the topology. It leaves = open how that topology is set up. These documents describe how to set up that topology and permit that topology to= be set up in a way that is subject to attack by on-path attackers. The dis= cussion of the security impact of that decision is therefore properly in th= ese documents.

=C2= =A0

-Ekr<= /span>

=C2= =A0

=C2= =A0

=C2= =A0

Note that the BIER IS-IS draft already includes the statement:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CBIER specific security considerations are discussed in [RFC82= 79].=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

I would suggest that the same statement be added to the BIER OSP= F draft.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Eric R= escorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2018 4:28 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <g= insberg@cisco.com>
Cc: Eric C Rosen <erosen@junip= er.net>; Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisc= o.com>; bier-chairs@ietf.org; BIER WG <bier@ietf.or= g>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-bi= er-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org


Subject: Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bier-o= spf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Mar 20, 201= 8 at 11:22 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com= > wrote:

Eric =E2=80=93

=C2=A0

(Speaking as author of BIER IS-IS draft =E2=80=93 which I assume= would require equivalent changes)

I appreciate the careful review you have done =E2=80=93 and the = meaningful discussion you and Eric Rosen have had.

=C2=A0

If we spent our lives recording everything which is =E2=80=9CNOT= a risk=E2=80=9D in every draft we would have much less available time and much longer and less readable drafts.

=C2=A0

The purpose of the = Security Considerations section is to accurately document the security prop= erties of the system. This includes attacks that it protects against.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

If you are satisfied with the Security discussion in the BIER ar= chitecture drafts I propose we leave it at that and allow the BIER IGP drafts to proceed as is.

=C2=A0

I didn't say I = was satisfied with them. I said that between the drafts and Eric's expl= anation I was convinced this wasn't a problem. But other people will not have the benefit of that interaction. For that r= eason, and given that we know people will run the IGP in an unauthenticated= mode, I think it's important to document what the consequences of comp= romise of the IGP are. Something like Eric's note should suffice.

=C2=A0

-Ekr

=C2=A0

I believe they have accurately captured what are the security is= sues associated with the IGP BIER extensions and I believe the BIER architecture RFCs have done a good job detailing th= e security issues associated with BIER itself. I believe that is exactly wh= at is appropriate and what is needed.

=C2=A0

Thanx.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: BIER &= lt;bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Eric Rescorla
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2018 2:49 PM
To: Eric C Rosen <erosen@junip= er.net>
Cc: Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rr= ahman@cisco.com>; bier-chairs@ietf.org; BIER WG <bier@ietf.or= g>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-bi= er-ospf-bier-extensions@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bier-o= spf-bier-extensions-13: (with DISCUSS)

=C2=A0

Thanks. Based on th= is and a review of the BIER architecture I agree with this assessment.=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

I think some text t= o this effect would be useful in the specification so it's clear why th= e risk is low. Would it be a problem to add some?

=C2=A0

-Ekr

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Mar 15, 201= 8 at 6:58 PM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@ju= niper.net<= span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">> wrote:

On 3/15/2018 2:41 P= M, Eric Rescorla wrote:

Because this is mul= ticast, what I'm concerned with is whether it's possible to manipul= ate the routing fabric to mount a serious amplification attack. E.g., to cause a set of packets which should only have been sent t= o a small number of hosts to be amplified and sent to a large number of hos= ts. This seems like would be qualitatively different from just rerouting un= icast traffic. Is this possible (assuming that the routing layer is not secured?)


One could cause an amplification attack by modifying the data packet's = in-flight.=C2=A0 Or one could compromise an ingress BFR (BFIR) and set all = the bits in the BIER BitString.=C2=A0 These attacks are mentioned in the Se= curity Considerations section of RFC 8279.

However, I don't think there is anything one can do to the OSPF or ISIS= control messages that would cause an amplification attack.

The BFIR decides which hosts are to receive a packet.=C2=A0 In making this = decision, it is not influenced by the IGP control messages. When creating t= he encapsulation, the BFIR sets one bit in the encapsulation for each desti= nation host.=C2=A0 The information in the OSPF/ISIS extensions is used to construct the forwarding tables that map e= ach bit in the encapsulation into a set of next hops for the host that is i= dentified by that bit.

If a BFR receives a packet with n bits set, it may have to replicate the pa= cket and forward multiple copies.=C2=A0 However, a given bit will only be s= et in one copy of the packet.

So I don't see how one could mount an amplification attack by modifying= the OSPF/ISIS messages.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2= =A0

_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf= .org/mailman/listinfo/bier
--00000000000054111705692af8fb-- From nobody Fri Apr 6 06:47:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B891201FA; Fri, 6 Apr 2018 06:47:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.77.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: The IESG , bier@ietf.org, Hooman Bidgoli , draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, bier-chairs@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <152302243280.3731.13606309578404458097.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2018 06:47:12 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Protocol Action: 'BIER support via ISIS' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-11.txt) X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2018 13:47:13 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'BIER support via ISIS' (draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-11.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Martin Vigoureux and Deborah Brungard. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions/ Technical Summary This draft presents extension needed for isis to advertise BIER information with in a bier domain and its subdomains. This information can be used to build a Bit Index Forwarding Table for BIER, which in order is used for forwarding multicast packets with in a BIER domain or subdomain. The ISIS extension BIER sub-tlv carries the information for BIER sub-domain that the router participates in. This sub-tlv includes multiple sub-sub-tlvs with label range and a bit string length for certain. Working Group Summary The draft has been well received. There has been discussion only recently brought to the mailing list about changing the length of the BAR field from 8 to 16 bits for future-proofing. IF there is WG consensus on this, I expect an update before the IESG telechat and will pass the technical change through a 1 week WGLC before final approval. Document Quality based on the IETF discussions there are implementation of this draft and/or strong roadmap commitment from other vendors. Personnel Hooman Bidgoli is the shepherd and Alvaro Retana is the Area Director From nobody Sun Apr 8 14:53:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C191712D872; Sun, 8 Apr 2018 14:53:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yC7arioABiXR; Sun, 8 Apr 2018 14:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x230.google.com (mail-wm0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C2BB1201F2; Sun, 8 Apr 2018 14:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x230.google.com with SMTP id t67so14336109wmt.0; Sun, 08 Apr 2018 14:53:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Z3swayQEo7QkxyK/RU2G6HmrJQ0NKjsXm1/S5AdGIfY=; b=rkirtJ9WgzSM+1ONDfpMNm2/cIWZMF8LaQzkaJHt27N13fZzVD7akaiqFiSnIMyVc0 ZebKbIR8DUtmI9X8Ti6Yzkp+C3ub62j9JqG0WpP16TjjO+IfrRPPMnRbdLMLefFOc7Ks YexPnliFw9qK4mNRs9GsCqnFi4dmlT7wLVcglOV4U1jp1fXxLr9Fwa4PF06MdXdkd6rQ IgoaVYSy9KUUdW80KdoJZBC+1Aeh9Ww1MeS90VmQsKJY5CjZTz/yp0c8DXv7gX0LlXqV Vm955BYplHB+bBw3Bak+HvJeLiMNBaBNltYjYWB2cy7ab3+rI+q3bHXbOEBVH4LURqn/ qtDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Z3swayQEo7QkxyK/RU2G6HmrJQ0NKjsXm1/S5AdGIfY=; b=hvut7mscXYS/t0IUpdH0Q6symrok9OYPiHScP8F8S9OIQai0yGRv7RA7U0kZVT43aV pM6crqH6T1KLqo4PuleSETVh4OBJdROc37rQqlb6cS87zwCZefTXCLQ4aO4tQ7M9EbqA J2rFk10K4kgTCkasfJAUftBUcqN1ZvOxN2aTTgLVwQ+yZsP2NcvcPEuhCTHLssB8loBq /sFteUr8n/KYka8nUA+YryJoFV/JqMDt97J42BOekoq7i7xXikDrC5fNbo8NXsJz7slt Tby2ZF4rhvqVvqu5PjrLFNhpAbQG6iAV19x6o93FyTxVxSUv5L0Dy8Rhq9V7xOidv0De dA8g== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7Gwbwt7dGW/OmbGXjE2ccZxS38tU3+/kA+8e9fy2MSl03ScN1ry 9fDdNi5n/OvJsmVrJW7sfMkJJYyMczh2eVwLH+U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4/Hs+M0g3WGRcuGNJlwbv/oVG3TXPRo1s0J3Hkl8uxOtEA/LOgSfH7VkOAzh8waG9vHj8okT/yu+avVjl/uelo= X-Received: by 10.46.156.132 with SMTP id x4mr21013295lji.19.1523224405579; Sun, 08 Apr 2018 14:53:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.73.66 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Apr 2018 14:53:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87muyfzq1l.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> References: <87muyfzq1l.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 14:53:24 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Dale R. Worley" Cc: NVO3 , draft-ietf-bier-ping@ietf.org, BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="883d24f227549b9c8405695d5197" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] [nvo3] BIER OAM (was: IETF101 NVO3 draft minutes posted) X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2018 21:53:30 -0000 --883d24f227549b9c8405695d5197 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Dale, great catch, thank you. Will correct to match the size of the Proto field, 6 bits-long, as defined in RFC 8296 in the next update of our draft. Regards, Greg On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 7:52 PM, Dale R. Worley wrote: > Greg Mirsky writes: > > you may be surprised to check BIER OAM, section 3.1 of > draft-ietf-bier-ping > > to be precise, as > it > > defines the header for active BIER OAM. > > Interesting. But I note that in RFC 8296, the next protocol field > ("Proto") is 6 bits, and the "BIER Next Protocol Identifiers" is defined > to match. But in draft-ietf-bier-ping-03, the "Proto" field is only 4 > bits, although it seems to intend that the values be taken fromn "BIER > Next Protocol Identifiers". > > Dale > > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > --883d24f227549b9c8405695d5197 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dale,
great catch, thank you. Will correct to match= the size of the Proto field, 6 bits-long, as defined in RFC 8296 in the ne= xt update of our draft.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, = Apr 6, 2018 at 7:52 PM, Dale R. Worley <worley@ariadne.com>= wrote:
Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> writes:
> you may be surprised to check BIER OAM, section 3.1 of draft-ietf-bier= -ping
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i= etf-bier-ping-03> to be precise, as it
> defines the header for active BIER OAM.

Interesting.=C2=A0 But I note that in RFC 8296, the next protocol field
("Proto") is 6 bits, and the "BIER Next Protocol Identifiers= " is defined
to match.=C2=A0 But in draft-ietf-bier-ping-03, the "Proto" field= is only 4
bits, although it seems to intend that the values be taken fromn "BIER=
Next Protocol Identifiers".

Dale

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nvo3@ietf.org
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--883d24f227549b9c8405695d5197-- From nobody Sun Apr 8 15:11:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 663E71201F2; Sun, 8 Apr 2018 15:11:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aAKC_hRUBv3n; Sun, 8 Apr 2018 15:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E62BD12D87A; Sun, 8 Apr 2018 15:10:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=11288; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1523225452; x=1524435052; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=wAc+5ZbmUP2haACGdndif/k/TtnDHswrhoh8D1fy5xs=; b=V2AKJGY2uDo62tnEZg9Jsc7L8+yIWwhvrbfqCFvpKGgCkaWhkU5AcQBQ vcMoxfKckDypWU6B9cLWBXqmQrhqIdomofreEcq8kPfcdG01ESsbH6Nc+ irBODbGT095N+UVqLWfRsPGylLcboeW0wX/gzAHcNaxZJDW5B7tdxeW9r k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DqAAC7kspa/5RdJa1bGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYJNdWFvKAqDVogBjQmBdIEPhmSHFYRkgXoLGAEKhGACGoI?= =?us-ascii?q?fITQYAQIBAQEBAQECbBwMhSIBAQEBAwEBIUsLEAIBCBEDAQIoAwICAh8GCxQ?= =?us-ascii?q?JCAIEAQ0FhClMAxUPpSSCHIcDDYErghkFh2uCE4EMIoJigUGBDkIBAQOBeRa?= =?us-ascii?q?CSjCCJAKIDI8PLAgChVSFYoJ9gTKLEYcogXQ8hgcCERMBgSQBHDiBUnAVOio?= =?us-ascii?q?BghgJgiOEEYRThT5vAY0lgRcBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.48,425,1517875200"; d="scan'208,217";a="378450857" Received: from rcdn-core-12.cisco.com ([173.37.93.148]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Apr 2018 22:10:51 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-011.cisco.com (xch-aln-011.cisco.com [173.36.7.21]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w38MAprN016139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 Apr 2018 22:10:51 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com (173.37.102.25) by XCH-ALN-011.cisco.com (173.36.7.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Sun, 8 Apr 2018 17:10:50 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Sun, 8 Apr 2018 17:10:50 -0500 From: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" To: Greg Mirsky , "Dale R. Worley" CC: NVO3 , "draft-ietf-bier-ping@ietf.org" , BIER WG Thread-Topic: [nvo3] BIER OAM (was: IETF101 NVO3 draft minutes posted) Thread-Index: AQHTz4QIzOpEWfttsEmN3ZlKU88Zl6P3fqSA Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 22:10:50 +0000 Message-ID: <8B6D4317-96F9-483D-AF16-B8DB021AC4DB@cisco.com> References: <87muyfzq1l.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.a.0.180210 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.216.124] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8B6D431796F9483DAF16B8DB021AC4DBciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] [nvo3] BIER OAM (was: IETF101 NVO3 draft minutes posted) X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: 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b3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJtc28tYm9va21hcms6X01haWxPcmlnaW5hbEJvZHkiPjxvOnA+ Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+ DQo= --_000_8B6D431796F9483DAF16B8DB021AC4DBciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Apr 9 13:01:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF141272E1; Mon, 9 Apr 2018 13:01:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.77.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152330411464.30706.2884597431305776009@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2018 13:01:54 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-pim-signaling-01.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2018 20:01:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : PIM Signaling Through BIER Core Authors : Hooman Bidgoli Andrew Dolganow Jayant Kotalwar Fengman Xu Mankamana Mishra Cisco Systems Zhaohui Zhang Filename : draft-ietf-bier-pim-signaling-01.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2018-04-09 Abstract: Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that provides multicast forwarding through a "BIER domain" without requiring intermediate routers to maintain multicast related per-flow state. Neither does BIER require an explicit tree-building protocol for its operation. A multicast data packet enters a BIER domain at a "Bit-Forwarding Ingress Router" (BFIR), and leaves the BIER domain at one or more "Bit-Forwarding Egress Routers" (BFERs). The BFIR router adds a BIER header to the packet. Such header contains a bit-string in which each bit represents exactly one BFER to forward the packet to. The set of BFERs to which the multicast packet needs to be forwarded is expressed by the according set of bits switched on in BIER packet header. This document describes the procedure needed for PIM Joins and Prunes to be signaled through a BIER core. Allowing PIM routers to run traditional PIM multicast services through a BIER core. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-pim-signaling/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-pim-signaling-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-pim-signaling-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-pim-signaling-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Apr 10 19:02:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F55126C0F; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 19:01:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.78.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152341211730.2246.15563055855319979505@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 19:01:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-01.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 02:01:57 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : BIER Underlay Path Calculation Algorithm and Contraints Authors : Zhaohui Zhang Antoni Przygienda Andrew Dolganow Hooman Bidgoli IJsbrand Wijnands Arkadiy Gulko Filename : draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-01.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2018-04-10 Abstract: This document specifies general rules for interaction between the BAR and IPA fields defined in [I-D.ietf-bier-isis-extensions] and [I-D.ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions]. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Apr 12 00:20:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56E371241FC for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 00:20:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8TYk-jI_dYww for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 00:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxhk.zte.com.cn (mxhk.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99D881201F8 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 00:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxct.zte.com.cn (unknown [192.168.164.215]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTPS id 32B294CDF2DEB83ADFC4 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 15:20:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from mse02.zte.com.cn (unknown [10.30.3.21]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTPS id 19139F65F8EA51D6E833; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 15:20:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from njxapp01.zte.com.cn ([10.41.132.200]) by mse02.zte.com.cn with SMTP id w3C7KMx5010036; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 15:20:22 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn) Received: from mapi (njxapp04[null]) by mapi (Zmail) with MAPI id mid203; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 15:20:24 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 15:20:24 +0800 (CST) X-Zmail-TransId: 2afc5acf08b87aa-d100d X-Mailer: Zmail v1.0 Message-ID: <201804121520243382476@zte.com.cn> Mime-Version: 1.0 From: To: , , , Cc: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====_001_next=====" X-MAIL: mse02.zte.com.cn w3C7KMx5010036 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] =?utf-8?q?_Comments_on_draft-ietf-bier-te-arch-00?= X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 07:20:56 -0000 --=====_001_next===== Content-Type: multipart/related; 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Mon, 16 Apr 2018 07:41:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.78.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152388967709.20886.1993050289556244395@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 07:41:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding-00.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 14:41:17 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : An Optional Encoding of the BIFT-id Field in the non-MPLS BIER Encapsulation Authors : IJsbrand Wijnands Xiaohu Xu Hooman Bidgoli Filename : draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding-00.txt Pages : 5 Date : 2018-04-13 Abstract: Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that provides optimal multicast forwarding through a "multicast domain", without requiring intermediate routers to maintain any per-flow state or to engage in an explicit tree-building protocol. The Multicast packet is encapsulated using a BIER Header and transported through an MPLS or non-MPLS network. When MPLS is used as the transport, the Bit Indexed Forwarding Table (BIFT) is identified by a MPLS Label. When non-MPLS transport is used, the BIFT is identified by a 20bit value. This document describes one way of encoding the 20bit value. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Apr 16 16:04:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E0212702E; Mon, 16 Apr 2018 16:04:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: aretana.ietf@gmail.com, bier@ietf.org, gjshep@gmail.com, bier-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.78.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152391985639.26140.4610850732933776249.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 16:04:16 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] bier - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 102 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 23:04:16 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Greg Shepherd, a Chair of the bier working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Bit Indexed Explicit Replication Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Greg Shepherd Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: pim,babel,mboned,mpls,homenet,lsr,roll People who must be present: Tony Przygienda Greg Shepherd Alvaro Retana Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Apr 18 07:30:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9967F124F57; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 07:30:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.78.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152406183656.983.1456765813493198923@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 07:30:36 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-pim-signaling-02.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 14:30:37 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : PIM Signaling Through BIER Core Authors : Hooman Bidgoli Andrew Dolganow Jayant Kotalwar Fengman Xu Mankamana Mishra Cisco Systems Zhaohui Zhang Filename : draft-ietf-bier-pim-signaling-02.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2018-04-18 Abstract: Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that provides multicast forwarding through a "BIER domain" without requiring intermediate routers to maintain multicast related per-flow state. Neither does BIER require an explicit tree-building protocol for its operation. A multicast data packet enters a BIER domain at a "Bit-Forwarding Ingress Router" (BFIR), and leaves the BIER domain at one or more "Bit-Forwarding Egress Routers" (BFERs). The BFIR router adds a BIER header to the packet. Such header contains a bit-string in which each bit represents exactly one BFER to forward the packet to. The set of BFERs to which the multicast packet needs to be forwarded is expressed by the according set of bits switched on in BIER packet header. This document describes the procedure needed for PIM Joins and Prunes to be signaled through a BIER core. Allowing PIM routers to run traditional PIM multicast services through a BIER core. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-pim-signaling/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-pim-signaling-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-pim-signaling-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-pim-signaling-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Apr 20 01:51:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E7D129C6C; Fri, 20 Apr 2018 01:51:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.19 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.19 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tm-ptiEoik1P; Fri, 20 Apr 2018 01:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94051126B6D; Fri, 20 Apr 2018 01:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6478B3CC9FDFD; Fri, 20 Apr 2018 09:50:55 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Fri, 20 Apr 2018 09:50:56 +0100 Received: from NKGEML514-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::40a8:f0d:c0f3:2ca5]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Fri, 20 Apr 2018 16:50:47 +0800 From: Xiejingrong To: "draft-ietf-bier-mvpn@ietf.org" , "bier-chairs@ietf.org" , BIER WG Thread-Topic: [BIER] Question regarding the and a new Thread-Index: AdPYhA7SU2ACD7l6TIechAqMofwHXQ== Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 08:50:46 +0000 Message-ID: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115A99A26AE3@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN 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IHVwZGF0ZXM8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvUGxhaW5UZXh0Ij48 c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7IFtJLUQuaWV0Zi1iaWVyLW12cG5dLjxvOnA+ PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29QbGFpblRleHQiPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVO LVVTIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvUGxhaW5UZXh0 Ij48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+ DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115A99A26AE3nkgeml514mbxchi_-- From nobody Sat Apr 21 14:36:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2B0312E8C5 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 14:36:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wGuLOfBYZVNG for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 14:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2766C12D880 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 14:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B45458C4B1; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 23:36:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 1964E440214; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 23:36:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 23:36:07 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn Cc: gcauchie@bouyguestelecom.fr, wolfgang.braun@uni-tuebingen.de, menth@uni-tuebingen.de, bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180421213606.6z5nqy7qagfswch4@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <201804121520243382476@zte.com.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201804121520243382476@zte.com.cn> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on draft-ietf-bier-te-arch-00 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 21:36:15 -0000 Thanks a lot Will fix in next rev. On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 03:20:24PM +0800, zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn wrote: > Hi authors, > > > > > There are some small nits in several example parts, IMO it's better to revise them though these nits may not lead to misunderstanding. > > > > 1)In section 3.4, > > a, "pXX indicate ...... For example, > > > p9 is the adjacency towards BFR9 on the LAN connecting to BFER2." > > ---There isn't BFR9 in the figure, it should be BFR5. > > > > > > b, "BFIR2 forwards based on that BitString...... > > Only p13 is in BitString which has an adjacency towards BFR3. BFIR2 > > resets p2 in BitString and sends a copy towards BFR2." > > ---It should be: "Only p2 is in BitString which has an adjacency towards BFR3. BFIR2 resets p2 in BitString and sends a copy towards BFR3." > > > > > > 2), In the second paragraph of section 3.5, > > "When a packet is received, ......, but not BIER-T > > > itself. It is expected ......." > > ---It is "BIER-TE". > > > > > > 3) In the pseudocode of section 6, > > "for (Index = 0; Index++ ; Index <= BitStringLength) > > > if(BIFT[Index] != ) > > MyBitsOfInterest != 2<<(Index-1)" > > ---My understanding is MyBitsOfInterest is the collection of the non-zero bps in a BIFT array. The corresponding bit in MyBitsOfInterest should be set to 1 when BIFT[Index]'s value is non-zero. If my understanding is right, it seems like the pseudocode should be: > > > > > > "for (Index = 0; Index++ ; Index < BitStringLength) > > if(BIFT[Index] != ) > > MyBitsOfInterest |= 1<<(Index);" > > > > > And this modification is also suitable for the ForwardBierTePacket pseudocode example in section 6. > > > > > 4) In the first paragraph of section 7.5.1, > > "Consider a network setup with a bitstring length of 256 for a network > > > topology ...... The network has 6 areas, > > each with ca. 180 BFR, connecting via a core with some larger (core) > > BFR. To address all BFER with BIER, 4 SI are required." > > ---It seems like 4 SIs for 256 BitStringLength are not enough to hold 180*6=1080 BFERs. To modify simply, 170 BFR is suitable. > > > > > > 5) In the pseudocode of section 6, > > The "interface" mentioned in ForwardBierTePacket pseudocode seems the same as "adjacency". Should it be modified uniformly? > > > > > > BTW: In section 4.7, I am not understanding well about the usage of seed. Are these seeds' value in BFR1/2/3's BIFT entry same? > > Could you please add more detail about how to use it? > > > > > Thanks, > > Sandy -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Fri Apr 27 21:02:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3F6124319; Fri, 27 Apr 2018 21:02:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.79.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152488816551.31565.17585773068584639583@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2018 21:02:45 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-evpn-01.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2018 04:02:45 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : EVPN BUM Using BIER Authors : Zhaohui Zhang Antoni Przygienda Ali Sajassi Jorge Rabadan Filename : draft-ietf-bier-evpn-01.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2018-04-27 Abstract: This document specifies protocols and procedures for forwarding broadcast, unknown unicast and multicast (BUM) traffic of Ethernet VPNs (EVPN) using Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-evpn/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-evpn-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-evpn-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-evpn-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Apr 28 01:29:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5138912D882; Sat, 28 Apr 2018 01:29:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2d_-XCTCQeyB; Sat, 28 Apr 2018 01:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D0BA1204DA; Sat, 28 Apr 2018 01:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 3163CACD1E5A5; Sat, 28 Apr 2018 09:29:00 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Sat, 28 Apr 2018 09:29:01 +0100 Received: from NKGEML514-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.19]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Sat, 28 Apr 2018 16:28:50 +0800 From: Xiejingrong To: BIER WG , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-xie-bier-6man-encapsulation-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHT3snp4skuESinpEqpRj2B03g9B6QV13Yw Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2018 08:28:50 +0000 Message-ID: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115A99A30489@nkgeml514-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <152490367966.31593.17756365239115545336.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <152490367966.31593.17756365239115545336.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.217.214] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xie-bier-6man-encapsulation-00.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2018 08:29:06 -0000 DQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYu b3JnIFttYWlsdG86aW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnXSANClNlbnQ6IFNhdHVyZGF5LCBB cHJpbCAyOCwgMjAxOCA0OjIxIFBNDQpUbzogWGllamluZ3JvbmcgPHhpZWppbmdyb25nQGh1YXdl aS5jb20+OyBYaWF5YW5nIChZb2xhbmRhKSA8eW9sYW5kYS54aWFAaHVhd2VpLmNvbT47IE1pa2Ug TWNCcmlkZSA8bW1jYnJpZGU3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT47IFlhbmdhbmcgPHlhbmdhbmdAaHVhd2VpLmNv bT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQteGllLWJpZXIt Nm1hbi1lbmNhcHN1bGF0aW9uLTAwLnR4dA0KDQoNCkEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24gb2YgSS1ELCBkcmFm dC14aWUtYmllci02bWFuLWVuY2Fwc3VsYXRpb24tMDAudHh0DQpoYXMgYmVlbiBzdWNjZXNzZnVs bHkgc3VibWl0dGVkIGJ5IEppbmdyb25nIFhpZSBhbmQgcG9zdGVkIHRvIHRoZSBJRVRGIHJlcG9z aXRvcnkuDQoNCk5hbWU6CQlkcmFmdC14aWUtYmllci02bWFuLWVuY2Fwc3VsYXRpb24NClJldmlz aW9uOgkwMA0KVGl0bGU6CQlFbmNhcHN1bGF0aW9uIGZvciBCSUVSIGluIE5vbi1NUExTIElQdjYg TmV0d29ya3MNCkRvY3VtZW50IGRhdGU6CTIwMTgtMDQtMjgNCkdyb3VwOgkJSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBT dWJtaXNzaW9uDQpQYWdlczoJCTEwDQpVUkw6ICAgICAgICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzL2RyYWZ0LXhpZS1iaWVyLTZtYW4tZW5jYXBzdWxhdGlvbi0wMC50 eHQNClN0YXR1czogICAgICAgICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFm dC14aWUtYmllci02bWFuLWVuY2Fwc3VsYXRpb24vDQpIdG1saXplZDogICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly90 b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LXhpZS1iaWVyLTZtYW4tZW5jYXBzdWxhdGlvbi0wMA0K SHRtbGl6ZWQ6ICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2h0bWwvZHJh ZnQteGllLWJpZXItNm1hbi1lbmNhcHN1bGF0aW9uDQoNCg0KQWJzdHJhY3Q6DQogICBCaXQgSW5k ZXggRXhwbGljaXQgUmVwbGljYXRpb24gKEJJRVIpIGludHJvZHVjZXMgYSBuZXcgbXVsdGljYXN0 LQ0KICAgc3BlY2lmaWMgQklFUiBIZWFkZXIuICBDdXJyZW50bHkgQklFUiBoYXMgdHdvIHR5cGVz IG9mIGVuY2Fwc3VsYXRpb24NCiAgIGZvcm1hdHM6IG9uZSBpcyBNUExTIGVuY2Fwc3VsYXRpb24s IHRoZSBvdGhlciBpcyBFdGhlcm5ldA0KICAgZW5jYXBzdWxhdGlvbi4gIFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQg cHJvcG9zZXMgYSBCSUVSIElQdjYgZW5jYXBzdWxhdGlvbiBmb3INCiAgIE5vbi1NUExTIElQdjYg TmV0d29ya3MgdXNpbmcgYW4gSVB2NiBEZXN0aW5hdGlvbiBPcHRpb24gZXh0ZW5zaW9uDQogICBo ZWFkZXIuDQoNCg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KDQoNClBsZWFzZSBub3RlIHRo YXQgaXQgbWF5IHRha2UgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgbWludXRlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0aW1lIG9mIHN1Ym1p c3Npb24gdW50aWwgdGhlIGh0bWxpemVkIHZlcnNpb24gYW5kIGRpZmYgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBh dCB0b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy4NCg0KVGhlIElFVEYgU2VjcmV0YXJpYXQNCg0K