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0siqx0IXNoJKkTimUusnSw7Ty/Haimb9lt42EK5MuRg5pWgxHyC2XAV8W81M1cedXvEJ nkDc+DdRUgX8g0O2gU9DsKJdHwkwuJX6Yp5AZmXH70DOOhQBOjN6lU5d9E+ULP1eKe9+ OZzQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYIKxbFfx/iB41g5k0R1n9hhaUEtv+o2usujuxjRQXKRqA46C90 r3KNTwC93GrVehum+KBMlMscHoroAVcXYCxQdEi/3Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/U2gPdvmNT+IgKsI5Jbnr9QuoLy5Y488vkpr5y2YJQ5ly+/UTgxm5P3w9ptDBwPRHC1Z8/oInNw/7APzrEahTM= X-Received: by 2002:a19:7919:: with SMTP id u25mr6800073lfc.18.1544458689035; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 08:18:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 16:17:57 +0000 Message-ID: To: Suneesh Babu Cc: BIER WG , Vero Zheng , Mach Chen , suneesh@juniper.net, Giuseppe Fioccola Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="00000000000087e64c057cad4f02" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-04 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 16:18:20 -0000 --00000000000087e64c057cad4f02 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000087e649057cad4f00" --00000000000087e649057cad4f00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Saneesh, thank you for your feedback. Please kindly consider the update to the draft reflected in the attached diff. Please let us know if the changes address your comments. Regards, Greg On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 4:31 PM Suneesh wrote: > Thanks Greg for the update, please find my comments inline below. > > Regards, > Suneesh > > On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:09 AM Greg Mirsky > wrote: > >> Now with the updated address to reach Giuseppe. >> >> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:37 AM Greg Mirsky >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Suneesh, >>> thank you for the feedback and the detailed questions. Please find my >>> responses and notes in-line below tagged GIM>>. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Greg >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:24 AM Suneesh wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Greg, >>>> >>>> I have following comments on PMMM draft, please share your thoughts. >>>> >>>> Q1. Can you please share how the draft is viewed as a hybrid model? >>>> >>> GIM>> RFC 7799 provided the definition of active and passive measurement >>> methods. Hybrid methods are "in between" these two groups. Even though the >>> Alternate marking in BIER domain may use already preallocated field, it >>> does change the content of the header by applying the marking values in the >>> OAM field. Thus it is neither passive, nor active method but "in between", >>> i.e., hybrid. Would you agree? >>> >> Suneesh>>> Agreed > >> >>>> Ref: Section-3: >>>> >>>> >>>> the marking method in BIER layer can be viewed as the example of the >>>> hybrid performance measurement method >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Q2. Can you please define what is meant by sub-flows >>>> a). Is the sub-flow set of flows on which marking method is applied >>>> OR >>>> b). sub-flow-1 with say marking 0 and sub flow-2 with say marking 1 >>>> OR >>>> c). Being a hybrid model, draft proposes to duplicate the multicast >>>> stream which is having marking and treated those as sub-flows? >>>> >>> GIM>> We use the term "sub-flow" as you've described in b). >>> >> Suneesh>>> Would be great if we can capture in the draft for more > clarity > >> Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation >>>> >>>> Using the marking method a BFR creates distinct sub-flows in the >>>> particular multicast traffic over BIER layer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Q3. Is there any recommended values for 'number of packets' or/and >>>> 'time duration' for alternate marking method >>>> a). Just to know what is recommended to avoid say number of >>>> packets/time duration = 1 >>>> >>> GIM>> You're right, 1 or even 2 would not be useful. 3 packets? May be. >>> >>>> >>>> Q4. Lets say that the nodes is like A->B->C->D->F->G->H->I, the segment >>>> of interest is B->C->D for performance measurement >>>> a). Does the alternate marking values will clear from node D onwards? >>>> b). If not, what is recommended if we wish to measure between G->H->I >>>> >>> GIM>> Very good question. It is expected that the marking values be >>> cleared at the edge of BIER domain and thus an operator may enable >>> measurements on segment G-H-I at any time. >>> >> Suneesh>> Please consider adding it to the draft > >> >>>> Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation >>>> >>>> >>>> Any combination of markings, Loss and/or Delay, can be applied to a >>>> multicast flow by >>>> any Bit Forwarding Router (BFR) at either ingress or egress point to >>>> perform node, link, segment or end-to-end measurement to detect >>>> performance degradation defect and localize it efficiently. >>>> >>>> >>>> Q5. Can we somewhere capture that 'proto' field of BIER header should >>>> not be "OAM request/reply", though we are using OAM bits in header. >>>> >>>> >>>> The OAM field MUST be used only >>>> for the performance measurement of data traffic in BIER layer. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> GIM>> I think it would be too restrictive. One may want to measure >>> performance of BIER OAM. >>> >> Suneesh >>> I understood your point. Thanks. > > >> Regards, >>>> Suneesh >>>> >>> --00000000000087e649057cad4f00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Saneesh,
thank you for your=C2=A0feedback. Please k= indly consider the update to the draft reflected in the attached diff. Plea= se let us know if the changes address your comments.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 4:31 PM Suneesh <suneeshbk@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg for the = update, please find my comments inline below.

Regards,
Suneesh

On Thu,= Nov 22, 2018 at 12:09 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Now with th= e updated address to reach Giuseppe.

On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:37 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
Hi Suneesh,
thank you for the=C2=A0feedback and the detailed= =C2=A0questions. Please find my responses and notes in-line below tagged GI= M>>.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:24 AM Sunee= sh <suneeshbk@g= mail.com> wrote:
Hi Greg,
=C2=A0
I have following comments on PMMM draft, please share your thoughts= .
=C2=A0
Q1. Can you please share how the draft is view= ed as a hybrid model?
GIM>> RFC 77= 99 provided the definition of active and passive measurement methods. Hybri= d methods are "in between" these two groups. Even though the Alte= rnate marking in BIER domain may use already preallocated field, it does ch= ange the content of the header by applying the marking values in the OAM fi= eld. Thus it is neither passive, nor active method but "in between&quo= t;, i.e., hybrid. Would you agree?=C2=A0
Suneesh>>> Agreed=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Ref: Section-3:
=C2=A0
<snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the marking method in BIER layer can= be viewed as the example of the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0hybrid performance = measurement method
</snip>
=C2=A0
=C2= =A0
Q2. Can you please define what is meant by sub-flows
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a). Is the sub-flow set of flows on which marking method is = applied OR
=C2=A0 =C2=A0b). sub-flow-1 with say marking 0 and sub= flow-2 with say marking 1 OR
=C2=A0 =C2=A0c). Being a hybrid mod= el, draft proposes to duplicate the multicast stream which is having markin= g and treated those as sub-flows?
GIM>= ;> We use the term "sub-flow" as you've described in b).= =C2=A0
Suneesh>>= ;> Would be great if we can capture in the draft for more clarity=C2=A0= =C2=A0
Ref: Section-4: Theory of Op= eration
<snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Using the marking met= hod a BFR creates distinct sub-flows in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0particul= ar multicast traffic over BIER layer
</snip>=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Q3. Is there any recommended valu= es for 'number of packets' or/and 'time duration' for alter= nate marking method
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a). Just to know what is recomm= ended to avoid say number of packets/time duration =3D 1
<= /blockquote>
GIM>> You're right, 1 or even 2 would not be use= ful. 3 packets? May be.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
Q= 4. Lets say that the nodes is like A->B->C->D->F->G->H-&g= t;I, the segment of interest is B->C->D for performance measurement
=C2=A0 a). Does the alternate marking values will clear from node = D onwards?
=C2=A0 b). If not, what is recommended if we wish to m= easure between G->H->I
GIM>>= Very good question. It is expected that the marking values be cleared at t= he edge of BIER domain and thus an operator may enable measurements on segm= ent G-H-I at any time.
Suneesh>> Please consider adding it to the draft=C2=A0=C2=A0<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0=C2=A0
Ref: Section-4: Th= eory of Operation
=C2=A0
<snip>=C2=A0
= =C2=A0 Any combination of markings, Loss and/or Delay, can be applied to a = multicast flow by
=C2=A0 any Bit Forwarding Router (BFR) at eithe= r ingress or egress point to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0perform node, link, seg= ment or end-to-end measurement to detect
=C2=A0 =C2=A0performance= degradation defect and localize it efficiently.
</snip>
=C2=A0
Q5. Can we somewhere capture that 'proto' = field of BIER header should not be "OAM request/reply", though we= are using OAM bits in header.
=C2=A0
<snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The OAM field MUST be used only
=C2=A0 =C2=A0f= or the performance measurement of data traffic in BIER layer.
<= ;/snip>
=C2=A0
GIM>> = I think it would be too restrictive. One may want to measure performance of= BIER OAM.=C2=A0
Sune= esh >>> I understood your point. Thanks.
=C2=A0
Regards,
Suneesh
<= /div>
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AA+aEWb3RqE6OBhdK2mZEcLzIRg8jIWAlHdZWH05aWYP8agw3ngACjEg uwqjnbxapKufA0B4zlS5GDnyvIyC7VTADb4QE3vhPXj57uFHkQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/XLgLwwRSch95A4QIJErfsw4UhW7MsW6qBl3y78z2XI93qPUypDeguA/6s37L9bKP4/NyNE1tU+TWU4uee3IPI= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:66f:: with SMTP id 102mr9643327otn.293.1544462829749; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 09:27:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Suneesh Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 22:56:58 +0530 Message-ID: To: Greg Mirsky Cc: bier@ietf.org, vero.zheng@huawei.com, mach.chen@huawei.com, suneesh@juniper.net, giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005608d2057cae46b9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-04 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 17:27:14 -0000 --0000000000005608d2057cae46b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Greg, Thanks, I'm a little confused about the following statement on clearing the marking. It is expected that the marking values be set and cleared at the edge of BIER domain. Is it edge of BIER domain or edge of measurement domain(link or segment or end to end). Please let me know. Regards, Suneesh On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 9:48 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Saneesh, > thank you for your feedback. Please kindly consider the update to the > draft reflected in the attached diff. Please let us know if the changes > address your comments. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 4:31 PM Suneesh wrote: > >> Thanks Greg for the update, please find my comments inline below. >> >> Regards, >> Suneesh >> >> On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:09 AM Greg Mirsky >> wrote: >> >>> Now with the updated address to reach Giuseppe. >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:37 AM Greg Mirsky >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Suneesh, >>>> thank you for the feedback and the detailed questions. Please find my >>>> responses and notes in-line below tagged GIM>>. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:24 AM Suneesh wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>> >>>>> I have following comments on PMMM draft, please share your thoughts. >>>>> >>>>> Q1. Can you please share how the draft is viewed as a hybrid model? >>>>> >>>> GIM>> RFC 7799 provided the definition of active and passive >>>> measurement methods. Hybrid methods are "in between" these two groups. Even >>>> though the Alternate marking in BIER domain may use already preallocated >>>> field, it does change the content of the header by applying the marking >>>> values in the OAM field. Thus it is neither passive, nor active method but >>>> "in between", i.e., hybrid. Would you agree? >>>> >>> Suneesh>>> Agreed >> >>> >>>>> Ref: Section-3: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> the marking method in BIER layer can be viewed as the example of the >>>>> hybrid performance measurement method >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Q2. Can you please define what is meant by sub-flows >>>>> a). Is the sub-flow set of flows on which marking method is applied >>>>> OR >>>>> b). sub-flow-1 with say marking 0 and sub flow-2 with say marking 1 >>>>> OR >>>>> c). Being a hybrid model, draft proposes to duplicate the multicast >>>>> stream which is having marking and treated those as sub-flows? >>>>> >>>> GIM>> We use the term "sub-flow" as you've described in b). >>>> >>> Suneesh>>> Would be great if we can capture in the draft for more >> clarity >> >>> Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation >>>>> >>>>> Using the marking method a BFR creates distinct sub-flows in the >>>>> particular multicast traffic over BIER layer >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Q3. Is there any recommended values for 'number of packets' or/and >>>>> 'time duration' for alternate marking method >>>>> a). Just to know what is recommended to avoid say number of >>>>> packets/time duration = 1 >>>>> >>>> GIM>> You're right, 1 or even 2 would not be useful. 3 packets? May be. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Q4. Lets say that the nodes is like A->B->C->D->F->G->H->I, the >>>>> segment of interest is B->C->D for performance measurement >>>>> a). Does the alternate marking values will clear from node D onwards? >>>>> b). If not, what is recommended if we wish to measure between G->H->I >>>>> >>>> GIM>> Very good question. It is expected that the marking values be >>>> cleared at the edge of BIER domain and thus an operator may enable >>>> measurements on segment G-H-I at any time. >>>> >>> Suneesh>> Please consider adding it to the draft >> >>> >>>>> Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Any combination of markings, Loss and/or Delay, can be applied to a >>>>> multicast flow by >>>>> any Bit Forwarding Router (BFR) at either ingress or egress point to >>>>> perform node, link, segment or end-to-end measurement to detect >>>>> performance degradation defect and localize it efficiently. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Q5. Can we somewhere capture that 'proto' field of BIER header should >>>>> not be "OAM request/reply", though we are using OAM bits in header. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The OAM field MUST be used only >>>>> for the performance measurement of data traffic in BIER layer. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> GIM>> I think it would be too restrictive. One may want to measure >>>> performance of BIER OAM. >>>> >>> Suneesh >>> I understood your point. Thanks. >> >> >>> Regards, >>>>> Suneesh >>>>> >>>> --0000000000005608d2057cae46b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=C2=A0Greg,=C2=A0

Thanks, I'm a l= ittle confused about the following statement on clearing the marking.
=
<snip>
It is expected that the marking values be set a= nd cleared at the edge of BIER domain.=C2=A0
</snip>
<= div>
Is it edge of BIER domain or edge of measurement domain(= link or segment or end to end).=C2=A0 Please let me=C2=A0know.
Regards,
Suneesh

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 9:48 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
Hi Saneesh,
thank you for your=C2=A0feedback. Please kindly consider t= he update to the draft reflected in the attached diff. Please let us know i= f the changes address your comments.

Regards,
Greg

On Mo= n, Nov 26, 2018 at 4:31 PM Suneesh <suneeshbk@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg for th= e update, please find my comments inline below.

Regards,=
Suneesh

On Th= u, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:09 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Now with = the updated address to reach Giuseppe.

=
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:37 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Suneesh,
thank you for the=C2=A0feedback and the deta= iled=C2=A0questions. Please find my responses and notes in-line below tagge= d GIM>>.

Regards,
Greg

Hi Greg,
=C2= =A0
I have following comments on PMMM draft, please share your th= oughts.
=C2=A0
Q1. Can you please share how the draft i= s viewed as a hybrid model?
GIM>> = RFC 7799 provided the definition of active and passive measurement methods.= Hybrid methods are "in between" these two groups. Even though th= e Alternate marking in BIER domain may use already preallocated field, it d= oes change the content of the header by applying the marking values in the = OAM field. Thus it is neither passive, nor active method but "in betwe= en", i.e., hybrid. Would you agree?=C2=A0
Suneesh>>> Agreed=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Ref: Section-3:
=C2=A0
<snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the marking method in BIER lay= er can be viewed as the example of the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0hybrid perfor= mance measurement method
</snip>
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Q2. Can you please define what is meant by sub-flows
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a). Is the sub-flow set of flows on which marking method= is applied OR
=C2=A0 =C2=A0b). sub-flow-1 with say marking 0 and= sub flow-2 with say marking 1 OR
=C2=A0 =C2=A0c). Being a hybrid= model, draft proposes to duplicate the multicast stream which is having ma= rking and treated those as sub-flows?
GI= M>> We use the term "sub-flow" as you've described in b= ).=C2=A0
Suneesh>&= gt;> Would be great if we can capture in the draft for more clarity=C2= =A0=C2=A0
Ref: Section-4: Theory of= Operation
<snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Using the marking = method a BFR creates distinct sub-flows in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0parti= cular multicast traffic over BIER layer
</snip>=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Q3. Is there any recommended v= alues for 'number of packets' or/and 'time duration' for al= ternate marking method
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a). Just to know what is rec= ommended to avoid say number of packets/time duration =3D 1
GIM>> You're right, 1 or even 2 would not be = useful. 3 packets? May be.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
Q4. Lets say that the nodes is like A->B->C->D->F->G->H-= >I, the segment of interest is B->C->D for performance measurement=
=C2=A0 a). Does the alternate marking values will clear from nod= e D onwards?
=C2=A0 b). If not, what is recommended if we wish to= measure between G->H->I
GIM>&g= t; Very good question. It is expected that the marking values be cleared at= the edge of BIER domain and thus an operator may enable measurements on se= gment G-H-I at any time.
<= div>Suneesh>> Please consider adding it to the draft=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0
Ref: Section-4: = Theory of Operation
=C2=A0
<snip>=C2=A0
=C2=A0 Any combination of markings, Loss and/or Delay, can be applied to a= multicast flow by
=C2=A0 any Bit Forwarding Router (BFR) at eith= er ingress or egress point to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0perform node, link, se= gment or end-to-end measurement to detect
=C2=A0 =C2=A0performanc= e degradation defect and localize it efficiently.
</snip>
=C2=A0
Q5. Can we somewhere capture that 'proto'= field of BIER header should not be "OAM request/reply", though w= e are using OAM bits in header.
=C2=A0
<snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The OAM field MUST be used only
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= for the performance measurement of data traffic in BIER layer.
&l= t;/snip>
=C2=A0
GIM>>= I think it would be too restrictive. One may want to measure performance o= f BIER OAM.=C2=A0
Sun= eesh >>> I understood your point. Thanks.
=C2=A0
Regards,
Suneesh
=
--0000000000005608d2057cae46b9-- From nobody Mon Dec 10 09:44:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41A7E13110D for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 09:44:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7p6lss8jd8l8 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 09:44:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com (mail-lf1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC073130F74 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 09:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id v5so8649199lfe.7 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 09:44:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jh9CMMqNAXtRCZXPJeqctg0WtMUdXyHgAF3pIML/SJs=; b=C/4q3Yu9OOGFfDCea9XiZ9ALfJhnC6devZstEKqEkmUkU9A3w7VuxO60xLiGmjaDkr cXR0fVG25AYcge+UeIp7OOldA0oq41LnL2CCDdyfXeZs83wL+T7Pd6SgUc5/JCSpsUYb 6N4tcb0OHQynI8zCjh0IOnA8OVB5yfKvfEUZ3OFympLVswnrkAwze0MGgOSBPMg9DzeE zIHabTmwp4RG3cDp4Glv6ZtooyFismDs7mxaTZRfuR0poxitnrpebnhgN0aohxUo+SyO LBDcfYL4m1sMLEehglJngbn/9/Sl8a0xV+FAR5669NJAhuxvk1QFtS1uBV7K4sc9ZvDN Kw0Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jh9CMMqNAXtRCZXPJeqctg0WtMUdXyHgAF3pIML/SJs=; b=n3pWhwuQS6BJdbk3u8TQ3L1JSiyVENoST3nw6FC+U4CVrTFbpqkY83JeJ5OGWaFsl+ 9AuB5NzBIvtCzPYYu5/7JRa43V4kmttvX8HZ+nduYTFl0tqBRNCj74/4fvqfBygJ6dgl 6SZ6m87lI9Qx6dhPohokpoktDM6TOVjhJS0MfZU0k9tN+4r91rE2mbVDj3hLvqFv5eE6 34yXTdAH0/bNCjCUyPaJtOHiISUKIgQ47Huz3beKV4xF10i/6CY/vkF3YNPg8KRB8gSi 3bj5vssnJlBZ3508BTmJnJ2Cc0zcf9q36q0OFhT5kZXzW0SSQtxRqzIXnHe9QRdG1RHi V+7w== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWa5od4fv5cDzH0U4vkkS8rNfaj5mrRT3tvL2HEzxAKDuf2wi1Ki ctU89mlmHmiXXLU9QiIk3fIUpg5Sti/wkM7sWIg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/UaVMjVY57Dun52uUXlLMbkGwUcuxE/DnrN53W/507+BQtyKxR1k7hhhySp+ofGSpHFoYc5u3lgVPR0U0wgKvY= X-Received: by 2002:a19:a149:: with SMTP id k70mr7366699lfe.5.1544463889048; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 09:44:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 17:44:37 +0000 Message-ID: To: Suneesh Babu Cc: BIER WG , Vero Zheng , Mach Chen , suneesh@juniper.net, Giuseppe Fioccola Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000079a9ed057cae851d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-04 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 17:44:53 -0000 --00000000000079a9ed057cae851d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Suneesh, if the marking removed at the edge of the initial AltMark measurement domain, then adding the new measurement points would require communicating, coordinating more state than if the AltMark domain matches the BIER domain from the beginning. Would you agree? Regards, Greg On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 5:27 PM Suneesh wrote: > Hi Greg, > > Thanks, I'm a little confused about the following statement on clearing > the marking. > > It is expected that the marking values be set and cleared at the edge of > BIER domain. > > > Is it edge of BIER domain or edge of measurement domain(link or segment or > end to end). Please let me know. > > Regards, > Suneesh > > On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 9:48 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > >> Hi Saneesh, >> thank you for your feedback. Please kindly consider the update to the >> draft reflected in the attached diff. Please let us know if the changes >> address your comments. >> >> Regards, >> Greg >> >> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 4:31 PM Suneesh wrote: >> >>> Thanks Greg for the update, please find my comments inline below. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Suneesh >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:09 AM Greg Mirsky >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Now with the updated address to reach Giuseppe. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:37 AM Greg Mirsky >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Suneesh, >>>>> thank you for the feedback and the detailed questions. Please find my >>>>> responses and notes in-line below tagged GIM>>. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Greg >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:24 AM Suneesh wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have following comments on PMMM draft, please share your thoughts. >>>>>> >>>>>> Q1. Can you please share how the draft is viewed as a hybrid model? >>>>>> >>>>> GIM>> RFC 7799 provided the definition of active and passive >>>>> measurement methods. Hybrid methods are "in between" these two groups. Even >>>>> though the Alternate marking in BIER domain may use already preallocated >>>>> field, it does change the content of the header by applying the marking >>>>> values in the OAM field. Thus it is neither passive, nor active method but >>>>> "in between", i.e., hybrid. Would you agree? >>>>> >>>> Suneesh>>> Agreed >>> >>>> >>>>>> Ref: Section-3: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> the marking method in BIER layer can be viewed as the example of >>>>>> the >>>>>> hybrid performance measurement method >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Q2. Can you please define what is meant by sub-flows >>>>>> a). Is the sub-flow set of flows on which marking method is >>>>>> applied OR >>>>>> b). sub-flow-1 with say marking 0 and sub flow-2 with say marking >>>>>> 1 OR >>>>>> c). Being a hybrid model, draft proposes to duplicate the >>>>>> multicast stream which is having marking and treated those as sub-flows? >>>>>> >>>>> GIM>> We use the term "sub-flow" as you've described in b). >>>>> >>>> Suneesh>>> Would be great if we can capture in the draft for more >>> clarity >>> >>>> Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation >>>>>> >>>>>> Using the marking method a BFR creates distinct sub-flows in the >>>>>> particular multicast traffic over BIER layer >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Q3. Is there any recommended values for 'number of packets' or/and >>>>>> 'time duration' for alternate marking method >>>>>> a). Just to know what is recommended to avoid say number of >>>>>> packets/time duration = 1 >>>>>> >>>>> GIM>> You're right, 1 or even 2 would not be useful. 3 packets? May >>>>> be. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Q4. Lets say that the nodes is like A->B->C->D->F->G->H->I, the >>>>>> segment of interest is B->C->D for performance measurement >>>>>> a). Does the alternate marking values will clear from node D >>>>>> onwards? >>>>>> b). If not, what is recommended if we wish to measure between >>>>>> G->H->I >>>>>> >>>>> GIM>> Very good question. It is expected that the marking values be >>>>> cleared at the edge of BIER domain and thus an operator may enable >>>>> measurements on segment G-H-I at any time. >>>>> >>>> Suneesh>> Please consider adding it to the draft >>> >>>> >>>>>> Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Any combination of markings, Loss and/or Delay, can be applied to a >>>>>> multicast flow by >>>>>> any Bit Forwarding Router (BFR) at either ingress or egress point to >>>>>> perform node, link, segment or end-to-end measurement to detect >>>>>> performance degradation defect and localize it efficiently. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Q5. Can we somewhere capture that 'proto' field of BIER header should >>>>>> not be "OAM request/reply", though we are using OAM bits in header. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The OAM field MUST be used only >>>>>> for the performance measurement of data traffic in BIER layer. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> GIM>> I think it would be too restrictive. One may want to measure >>>>> performance of BIER OAM. >>>>> >>>> Suneesh >>> I understood your point. Thanks. >>> >>> >>>> Regards, >>>>>> Suneesh >>>>>> >>>>> --00000000000079a9ed057cae851d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Suneesh,
if the marking removed at the edge of the = initial AltMark=C2=A0measurement domain, then adding the new measurement po= ints would require communicating, coordinating more state than if the AltMa= rk=C2=A0domain matches=C2=A0the BIER domain from=C2=A0the beginning. Would = you agree?

Regards,
Greg

=
On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 5:27 PM= Suneesh <suneeshbk@gmail.com= > wrote:
Hi=C2=A0Greg,=C2=A0

Thanks, I'm a littl= e confused about the following statement on clearing the marking.
<snip>
It is expected that the marking values be set and c= leared at the edge of BIER domain.=C2=A0
</snip>
=
Is it edge of BIER domain or edge of measurement domain(link= or segment or end to end).=C2=A0 Please let me=C2=A0know.

Regards,
Suneesh

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 9:48 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Saneesh,
thank you for your=C2=A0feedback. Please kin= dly consider the update to the draft reflected in the attached diff. Please= let us know if the changes address your comments.

Regards,

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 4:31 PM Suneesh <suneeshbk@gmail.com> wrote:
Than= ks Greg for the update, please find my comments inline below.

Regards,
Suneesh

On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:09 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wro= te:
Now with the updated address to reach Giuseppe.

On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:37 AM Greg Mirsky= <gregimirsky= @gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Suneesh,
thank you for the=C2=A0feedback= and the detailed=C2=A0questions. Please find my responses and notes in-lin= e below tagged GIM>>.

Regards,
Gre= g

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018= at 9:24 AM Suneesh <suneeshbk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Greg,
=C2=A0
I have following comments on PMMM draft, please sh= are your thoughts.
=C2=A0
Q1. Can you please share how = the draft is viewed as a hybrid model?
G= IM>> RFC 7799 provided the definition of active and passive measureme= nt methods. Hybrid methods are "in between" these two groups. Eve= n though the Alternate marking in BIER domain may use already preallocated = field, it does change the content of the header by applying the marking val= ues in the OAM field. Thus it is neither passive, nor active method but &qu= ot;in between", i.e., hybrid. Would you agree?=C2=A0
=
Suneesh>>> Agreed=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0
Ref: Section-3:
=C2=A0
<snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the marking method = in BIER layer can be viewed as the example of the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0hy= brid performance measurement method
</snip>
=C2= =A0
=C2=A0
Q2. Can you please define what is meant by s= ub-flows
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a). Is the sub-flow set of flows on which m= arking method is applied OR
=C2=A0 =C2=A0b). sub-flow-1 with say = marking 0 and sub flow-2 with say marking 1 OR
=C2=A0 =C2=A0c). B= eing a hybrid model, draft proposes to duplicate the multicast stream which= is having marking and treated those as sub-flows?
GIM>> We use the term "sub-flow" as you've d= escribed in b).=C2=A0
Suneesh>>> Would be great if we can capture in the draft for more= clarity=C2=A0=C2=A0
Ref: Section-4= : Theory of Operation
<snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Using t= he marking method a BFR creates distinct sub-flows in the
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0particular multicast traffic over BIER layer
</snip>= =C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Q3. Is there any r= ecommended values for 'number of packets' or/and 'time duration= ' for alternate marking method
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a). Just to know= what is recommended to avoid say number of packets/time duration =3D 1
GIM>> You're right, 1 or even 2 w= ould not be useful. 3 packets? May be.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0
Q4. Lets say that the nodes is like A->B->C->D->F= ->G->H->I, the segment of interest is B->C->D for performanc= e measurement
=C2=A0 a). Does the alternate marking values will c= lear from node D onwards?
=C2=A0 b). If not, what is recommended = if we wish to measure between G->H->I
<= div>GIM>> Very good question. It is expected that the marking values = be cleared at the edge of BIER domain and thus an operator may enable measu= rements on segment G-H-I at any time.
<= /blockquote>
Suneesh>> Please consider adding it to the draft=C2= =A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0
Re= f: Section-4: Theory of Operation
=C2=A0
<snip>= =C2=A0
=C2=A0 Any combination of markings, Loss and/or Delay, can= be applied to a multicast flow by
=C2=A0 any Bit Forwarding Rout= er (BFR) at either ingress or egress point to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0perfor= m node, link, segment or end-to-end measurement to detect
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0performance degradation defect and localize it efficiently.
</snip>
=C2=A0
Q5. Can we somewhere capture that= 'proto' field of BIER header should not be "OAM request/reply= ", though we are using OAM bits in header.
=C2=A0
= <snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The OAM field MUST be used only
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for the performance measurement of data traffic in BIER lay= er.
</snip>
=C2=A0
=
GIM>> I think it would be too restrictive. One may want to measu= re performance of BIER OAM.=C2=A0
Suneesh >>> I understood your point. Thanks.
=C2=A0
Regards,
Sun= eesh
--00000000000079a9ed057cae851d-- From nobody Mon Dec 10 18:58:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8D73126CC7 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 18:58:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lzEZj_xafR4Y for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 18:58:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32a.google.com (mail-ot1-x32a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D4A312426A for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 18:58:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id 40so12637379oth.4 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 18:58:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=fNzklGfHXON5aNxs5rb6RFocSTTWC5Z2BryO8ay6iR4=; b=L6RaG5DH5CRbQHYgYmKq8QBgs8s2kKMmT/0mByU2dRnfxIVyYnT/QXsYLdyl9upIgF W/Zh3PYaj+S8OhAjHfOmyx2JrNtGOlV9AdV9Ww75TIuDxKbCUysJMUwwf8kIJFKMjOtO yXaR/Cq+HR99F8VKuF9vqiCIYDQe/CXIaTFk21nJ24OQlXDLdd8sXNntdGelMYA6IN93 U+FSODH236zRkuf04okOZQTA50C+vV9icn/QR6P9Hazu29zgXwNQDScjjHswZ6LWZ1fy b0hFIBC+uMtONtAIF7ZZSAD8cZH3Tezw6ujDlZ4mH2fGPR5iA3JT2H2WZ+bTcETJv6la xiYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fNzklGfHXON5aNxs5rb6RFocSTTWC5Z2BryO8ay6iR4=; b=IzD0afQwmSe3u5WoAMc8exK3Nf3sRQWNnfPdyrVWDOiverxZyl8c6yzG8KWgx/CVyb 2MLUlSSFrwbawflB1nBE06pzghtx+gqUo7nj+ZRT3bgqRELVZhyBRPx7GummX7D42QbR R5n4Wgxe+phED/mykjQUKNjJETTJdhAxk3tpPoyvC+J3WcE9QD23/S9RR3x+1ieYJY7a oHgeOq0DI/GDDI1gBd2wu6XNEt9+J/ThB0XAMv7xp0QwEGBskRC2oApEyDi2Q4TTnZbt GbkmKglyvyJWm66Ur3/aBYWBXJVUvU9uEETxkvCmomAGuyVLxw6mi9rc3s37eBpH0Sc1 NbAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYPwnJE0yEhnmBphWe79vbreeavQOMGs6zaCkdKzdyJrhcs7D57 zSVjrzUO4BcK5+RpkVLPHGhliqRwXZV682mnUBs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WVGZra3WttUC26EqpqTdrR0mLENiDORZckxscyy+jP+Lje3DnCBjcCmxzVe9BopfCYRoEaM/RaR2Ai3jh8MsQ= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:501:: with SMTP id 1mr10871316otw.133.1544497093397; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 18:58:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Suneesh Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:28:02 +0530 Message-ID: To: Greg Mirsky Cc: bier@ietf.org, vero.zheng@huawei.com, mach.chen@huawei.com, suneesh@juniper.net, giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009bd123057cb640d7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-04 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 02:58:17 -0000 --0000000000009bd123057cb640d7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Greg, Ok, agree that point. So the marking always starts at the BFIR(Bit Forwarding Ingress Router), which can be used for PMM at node, link, segment or end-to-end level. Regards, Suneesh On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 11:14 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Suneesh, > if the marking removed at the edge of the initial AltMark measurement > domain, then adding the new measurement points would require communicating, > coordinating more state than if the AltMark domain matches the BIER domain > from the beginning. Would you agree? > > Regards, > Greg > > On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 5:27 PM Suneesh wrote: > >> Hi Greg, >> >> Thanks, I'm a little confused about the following statement on clearing >> the marking. >> >> It is expected that the marking values be set and cleared at the edge of >> BIER domain. >> >> >> Is it edge of BIER domain or edge of measurement domain(link or segment >> or end to end). Please let me know. >> >> Regards, >> Suneesh >> >> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 9:48 PM Greg Mirsky >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Saneesh, >>> thank you for your feedback. Please kindly consider the update to the >>> draft reflected in the attached diff. Please let us know if the changes >>> address your comments. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Greg >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 4:31 PM Suneesh wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Greg for the update, please find my comments inline below. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Suneesh >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:09 AM Greg Mirsky >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Now with the updated address to reach Giuseppe. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:37 AM Greg Mirsky >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Suneesh, >>>>>> thank you for the feedback and the detailed questions. Please find my >>>>>> responses and notes in-line below tagged GIM>>. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Greg >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:24 AM Suneesh wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have following comments on PMMM draft, please share your thoughts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Q1. Can you please share how the draft is viewed as a hybrid model? >>>>>>> >>>>>> GIM>> RFC 7799 provided the definition of active and passive >>>>>> measurement methods. Hybrid methods are "in between" these two groups. Even >>>>>> though the Alternate marking in BIER domain may use already preallocated >>>>>> field, it does change the content of the header by applying the marking >>>>>> values in the OAM field. Thus it is neither passive, nor active method but >>>>>> "in between", i.e., hybrid. Would you agree? >>>>>> >>>>> Suneesh>>> Agreed >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Ref: Section-3: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the marking method in BIER layer can be viewed as the example of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> hybrid performance measurement method >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Q2. Can you please define what is meant by sub-flows >>>>>>> a). Is the sub-flow set of flows on which marking method is >>>>>>> applied OR >>>>>>> b). sub-flow-1 with say marking 0 and sub flow-2 with say marking >>>>>>> 1 OR >>>>>>> c). Being a hybrid model, draft proposes to duplicate the >>>>>>> multicast stream which is having marking and treated those as sub-flows? >>>>>>> >>>>>> GIM>> We use the term "sub-flow" as you've described in b). >>>>>> >>>>> Suneesh>>> Would be great if we can capture in the draft for more >>>> clarity >>>> >>>>> Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Using the marking method a BFR creates distinct sub-flows in the >>>>>>> particular multicast traffic over BIER layer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Q3. Is there any recommended values for 'number of packets' or/and >>>>>>> 'time duration' for alternate marking method >>>>>>> a). Just to know what is recommended to avoid say number of >>>>>>> packets/time duration = 1 >>>>>>> >>>>>> GIM>> You're right, 1 or even 2 would not be useful. 3 packets? May >>>>>> be. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Q4. Lets say that the nodes is like A->B->C->D->F->G->H->I, the >>>>>>> segment of interest is B->C->D for performance measurement >>>>>>> a). Does the alternate marking values will clear from node D >>>>>>> onwards? >>>>>>> b). If not, what is recommended if we wish to measure between >>>>>>> G->H->I >>>>>>> >>>>>> GIM>> Very good question. It is expected that the marking values be >>>>>> cleared at the edge of BIER domain and thus an operator may enable >>>>>> measurements on segment G-H-I at any time. >>>>>> >>>>> Suneesh>> Please consider adding it to the draft >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any combination of markings, Loss and/or Delay, can be applied to >>>>>>> a multicast flow by >>>>>>> any Bit Forwarding Router (BFR) at either ingress or egress point >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> perform node, link, segment or end-to-end measurement to detect >>>>>>> performance degradation defect and localize it efficiently. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Q5. Can we somewhere capture that 'proto' field of BIER header >>>>>>> should not be "OAM request/reply", though we are using OAM bits in header. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The OAM field MUST be used only >>>>>>> for the performance measurement of data traffic in BIER layer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> GIM>> I think it would be too restrictive. One may want to measure >>>>>> performance of BIER OAM. >>>>>> >>>>> Suneesh >>> I understood your point. Thanks. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Suneesh >>>>>>> >>>>>> --0000000000009bd123057cb640d7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Greg,

Ok, agree that point.=C2=A0
So the marking always starts at the BFIR(Bit Forwarding Ingress Rou= ter), which can be used for PMM at node, link, segment or end-to-end level.= =C2=A0

Regards,
Suneesh

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 11:14 PM= Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail= .com> wrote:
Hi Suneesh,
if the marking removed at the edge of = the initial AltMark=C2=A0measurement domain, then adding the new measuremen= t points would require communicating, coordinating more state than if the A= ltMark=C2=A0domain matches=C2=A0the BIER domain from=C2=A0the beginning. Wo= uld you agree?

Regards,
Greg
=
On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 5:2= 7 PM Suneesh <s= uneeshbk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi=C2=A0Greg,=C2=A0

T= hanks, I'm a little confused about the following statement on clearing = the marking.
<snip>
It is expected that the marki= ng values be set and cleared at the edge of BIER domain.=C2=A0
&l= t;/snip>

Is it edge of BIER domain or edge of m= easurement domain(link or segment or end to end).=C2=A0 Please let me=C2=A0= know.

Regards,
Suneesh

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 9:48 PM G= reg Mirsky <g= regimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Saneesh,
thank you for your=C2= =A0feedback. Please kindly consider the update to the draft reflected in th= e attached diff. Please let us know if the changes address your comments.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 4:31 PM Suneesh &= lt;suneeshbk@gmail= .com> wrote:
Thanks Greg for the update, please find my comments in= line below.

Regards,
Suneesh

On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:09 AM Greg Mir= sky <gregimir= sky@gmail.com> wrote:
Now with the updated address to reach Giusepp= e.

On Wed, Nov 21, 201= 8 at 10:37 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Suneesh,
thank y= ou for the=C2=A0feedback and the detailed=C2=A0questions. Please find my re= sponses and notes in-line below tagged GIM>>.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:24 AM Suneesh <suneeshbk@gmail.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Hi Greg,
=C2=A0
I have following comments= on PMMM draft, please share your thoughts.
=C2=A0
Q1. = Can you please share how the draft is viewed as a hybrid model?
=
GIM>> RFC 7799 provided the definition of act= ive and passive measurement methods. Hybrid methods are "in between&qu= ot; these two groups. Even though the Alternate marking in BIER domain may = use already preallocated field, it does change the content of the header by= applying the marking values in the OAM field. Thus it is neither passive, = nor active method but "in between", i.e., hybrid. Would you agree= ?=C2=A0
Suneesh>&g= t;> Agreed=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0
Ref: Section-3:
=C2=A0
<snip>
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0the marking method in BIER layer can be viewed as the example of the<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0hybrid performance measurement method
<= /snip>
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Q2. Can you please de= fine what is meant by sub-flows
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a). Is the sub-flow = set of flows on which marking method is applied OR
=C2=A0 =C2=A0b= ). sub-flow-1 with say marking 0 and sub flow-2 with say marking 1 OR
=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0c). Being a hybrid model, draft proposes to duplicate the= multicast stream which is having marking and treated those as sub-flows?
GIM>> We use the term "sub-flo= w" as you've described in b).=C2=A0
=
Suneesh>>> Would be great if we can captur= e in the draft for more clarity=C2=A0=C2=A0
Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation
<snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Using the marking method a BFR creates distinct sub-flows i= n the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0particular multicast traffic over BIER layer
</snip>=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
<= div>Q3. Is there any recommended values for 'number of packets' or/= and 'time duration' for alternate marking method
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 a). Just to know what is recommended to avoid say number of packets/= time duration =3D 1
GIM>> You'= re right, 1 or even 2 would not be useful. 3 packets? May be.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
Q4. Lets say that the nodes is like A= ->B->C->D->F->G->H->I, the segment of interest is B-&g= t;C->D for performance measurement
=C2=A0 a). Does the alterna= te marking values will clear from node D onwards?
=C2=A0 b). If n= ot, what is recommended if we wish to measure between G->H->I
GIM>> Very good question. It is expected = that the marking values be cleared at the edge of BIER domain and thus an o= perator may enable measurements on segment G-H-I at any time.
Suneesh>> Please consider ad= ding it to the draft=C2=A0=C2=A0
= =C2=A0=C2=A0
Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation
=C2=A0=
<snip>=C2=A0
=C2=A0 Any combination of markings,= Loss and/or Delay, can be applied to a multicast flow by
=C2=A0 = any Bit Forwarding Router (BFR) at either ingress or egress point to
<= div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0perform node, link, segment or end-to-end measurement to d= etect
=C2=A0 =C2=A0performance degradation defect and localize it= efficiently.
</snip>
=C2=A0
Q5. Can we= somewhere capture that 'proto' field of BIER header should not be = "OAM request/reply", though we are using OAM bits in header.
=C2=A0
<snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The OAM field MU= ST be used only
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for the performance measurement of d= ata traffic in BIER layer.
</snip>
=C2=A0
GIM>> I think it would be too restrictive= . One may want to measure performance of BIER OAM.=C2=A0
<= /blockquote>
Suneesh >>> I understood your = point. Thanks.
=C2=A0
Regards,
Suneesh
--0000000000009bd123057cb640d7-- From nobody Mon Dec 10 22:49:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531EC1294D0 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 22:49:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rtVhYuu2P2q2 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 22:49:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6596412D4EF for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 22:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id n18-v6so11935323lji.7 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 22:49:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=x8Dm+npnRnZ/0Ut3p1QHQaRgTiZO8wZj4Oqa8vm9xPA=; b=WSV2kiwWoTHV1s2F+I0aG0IJS1QYBagGUhqMT6S3llFWT/k6XvwZtsy8t51Kc0Q6ML 9YyYqaFPCcUfd1btbAXQQHnSRKDAH8dF5+MS1qCuHZEvshZ5a6HYqfZzW92a1SvxkwPg H0Eh51P3bJhDf28do9NbQCOFrMcuyeNzvGeVm2cCgRTqxbRqbOIIlXAR50RbVxLfs7hZ 8y+cLunDDF9LCUhwS8zg39BZc+xQk0JHQ0aFFOz9KL5azlms+jfucve32vWwyz0Y1qfs uOMiQA7ahRJpUdZIMZAj0a8asOOD6uGw/2CnJkOJD/KDCSvDTUJjzcEeGKw8J0PU8w9a g5EA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=x8Dm+npnRnZ/0Ut3p1QHQaRgTiZO8wZj4Oqa8vm9xPA=; b=M9IXS0X5lU+W0Fkgt3+SY83FvrVcN0JuwYs0A24XzH4fDYyTzxylXpm16f9an4YKeP APnMkM/hdREOFQTqTsycJiB+YSWO+YsGvAFyMA7OCKgZj/1xtbT+DvHBrmV4eaSrgAPe us2TGDZUM29AZykfM+r1MIfOO52Rhm2YPKer6O39tMkwUj5Iz92RLEd6iVXCni0mjEKZ XwWVf98U+Kgnw1REo+3CJR9nYFx/aPBBiHMmqoR3GTGrDMifx+NjhNd6zgUN28+gpBu3 aJeH1Hl29C6hz3rOzwgaiX1DFCuch/SZiDn56x1oE+6bXFaD1eDJNHaQ4SVW41TAnn4k Jjjg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZ4y6M4cMpiH0nG7x2vNcdhiVcbf3JoNM+/OftZCwEuQoAhf5AW IQuzEcCG+Hs+U9e8ct1FO9uZ87QaXE12yk95vSg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/X6QLDehCsE1yFRjm34am5SFAntv4QsB5GhsiaoLzEhzhoq0QIioHxPXe5llmPp0o7RHXU50YYrTSISrfQIVY0= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:21a9:: with SMTP id h41-v6mr8829965lji.103.1544510982337; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 22:49:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 06:49:31 +0000 Message-ID: To: Suneesh Babu Cc: BIER WG , Vero Zheng , Mach Chen , suneesh@juniper.net, Giuseppe Fioccola Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007439b8057cb97c35" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-04 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 06:49:47 -0000 --0000000000007439b8057cb97c35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Suneesh, yes, as you've suggested, the AltMark domain may be arbitrary and not identical to the BIER domain. But from operational PoV, I believe, it is useful to apply AltMark at BFIR and then clear them by removing BIER encapsulation at BFERs. Please let me know if you agree and the proposed change addressed your comments. Then I'll upload the new version of the draft. Regards, Greg On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 2:58 AM Suneesh wrote: > Hi Greg, > > Ok, agree that point. > So the marking always starts at the BFIR(Bit Forwarding Ingress Router), > which can be used for PMM at node, link, segment or end-to-end level. > > Regards, > Suneesh > > On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 11:14 PM Greg Mirsky > wrote: > >> Hi Suneesh, >> if the marking removed at the edge of the initial AltMark measurement >> domain, then adding the new measurement points would require communicating, >> coordinating more state than if the AltMark domain matches the BIER domain >> from the beginning. Would you agree? >> >> Regards, >> Greg >> >> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 5:27 PM Suneesh wrote: >> >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> Thanks, I'm a little confused about the following statement on clearing >>> the marking. >>> >>> It is expected that the marking values be set and cleared at the edge of >>> BIER domain. >>> >>> >>> Is it edge of BIER domain or edge of measurement domain(link or segment >>> or end to end). Please let me know. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Suneesh >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 9:48 PM Greg Mirsky >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Saneesh, >>>> thank you for your feedback. Please kindly consider the update to the >>>> draft reflected in the attached diff. Please let us know if the changes >>>> address your comments. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 4:31 PM Suneesh wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks Greg for the update, please find my comments inline below. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Suneesh >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:09 AM Greg Mirsky >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Now with the updated address to reach Giuseppe. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:37 AM Greg Mirsky >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Suneesh, >>>>>>> thank you for the feedback and the detailed questions. Please find >>>>>>> my responses and notes in-line below tagged GIM>>. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:24 AM Suneesh wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have following comments on PMMM draft, please share your thoughts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Q1. Can you please share how the draft is viewed as a hybrid model? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> GIM>> RFC 7799 provided the definition of active and passive >>>>>>> measurement methods. Hybrid methods are "in between" these two groups. Even >>>>>>> though the Alternate marking in BIER domain may use already preallocated >>>>>>> field, it does change the content of the header by applying the marking >>>>>>> values in the OAM field. Thus it is neither passive, nor active method but >>>>>>> "in between", i.e., hybrid. Would you agree? >>>>>>> >>>>>> Suneesh>>> Agreed >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ref: Section-3: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the marking method in BIER layer can be viewed as the example of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> hybrid performance measurement method >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Q2. Can you please define what is meant by sub-flows >>>>>>>> a). Is the sub-flow set of flows on which marking method is >>>>>>>> applied OR >>>>>>>> b). sub-flow-1 with say marking 0 and sub flow-2 with say >>>>>>>> marking 1 OR >>>>>>>> c). Being a hybrid model, draft proposes to duplicate the >>>>>>>> multicast stream which is having marking and treated those as sub-flows? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> GIM>> We use the term "sub-flow" as you've described in b). >>>>>>> >>>>>> Suneesh>>> Would be great if we can capture in the draft for more >>>>> clarity >>>>> >>>>>> Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Using the marking method a BFR creates distinct sub-flows in the >>>>>>>> particular multicast traffic over BIER layer >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Q3. Is there any recommended values for 'number of packets' or/and >>>>>>>> 'time duration' for alternate marking method >>>>>>>> a). Just to know what is recommended to avoid say number of >>>>>>>> packets/time duration = 1 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> GIM>> You're right, 1 or even 2 would not be useful. 3 packets? May >>>>>>> be. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Q4. Lets say that the nodes is like A->B->C->D->F->G->H->I, the >>>>>>>> segment of interest is B->C->D for performance measurement >>>>>>>> a). Does the alternate marking values will clear from node D >>>>>>>> onwards? >>>>>>>> b). If not, what is recommended if we wish to measure between >>>>>>>> G->H->I >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> GIM>> Very good question. It is expected that the marking values be >>>>>>> cleared at the edge of BIER domain and thus an operator may enable >>>>>>> measurements on segment G-H-I at any time. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Suneesh>> Please consider adding it to the draft >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any combination of markings, Loss and/or Delay, can be applied to >>>>>>>> a multicast flow by >>>>>>>> any Bit Forwarding Router (BFR) at either ingress or egress point >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> perform node, link, segment or end-to-end measurement to detect >>>>>>>> performance degradation defect and localize it efficiently. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Q5. Can we somewhere capture that 'proto' field of BIER header >>>>>>>> should not be "OAM request/reply", though we are using OAM bits in header. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The OAM field MUST be used only >>>>>>>> for the performance measurement of data traffic in BIER layer. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> GIM>> I think it would be too restrictive. One may want to measure >>>>>>> performance of BIER OAM. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Suneesh >>> I understood your point. Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Suneesh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> --0000000000007439b8057cb97c35 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Suneesh,
yes, as you've suggested, the AltMark = domain may be arbitrary and not identical to the BIER domain. But from ope= rational PoV, I believe, it is useful to apply AltMark=C2=A0at BFIR and the= n clear them by removing BIER encapsulation at BFERs.

<= div>Please=C2=A0let me know=C2=A0if you agree and the proposed change addre= ssed your comments. Then I'll upload the new version of the draft.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 2:58 AM Suneesh <suneeshbk@gmail.com> wrote:
=
Hi= Greg,

Ok, agree that point.=C2=A0
So the mark= ing always starts at the BFIR(Bit Forwarding Ingress Router), which can be = used for PMM at node, link, segment or end-to-end level.=C2=A0
Regards,
Suneesh

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 11:14 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.= com> wrote:
Hi Suneesh,
if the marking removed at the edge of t= he initial AltMark=C2=A0measurement domain, then adding the new measurement= points would require communicating, coordinating more state than if the Al= tMark=C2=A0domain matches=C2=A0the BIER domain from=C2=A0the beginning. Wou= ld you agree?

Regards,
Greg
<= br>
On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 5:27= PM Suneesh <su= neeshbk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi=C2=A0Greg,=C2=A0

Th= anks, I'm a little confused about the following statement on clearing t= he marking.
<snip>
It is expected that the markin= g values be set and cleared at the edge of BIER domain.=C2=A0
<= ;/snip>

Is it edge of BIER domain or edge of me= asurement domain(link or segment or end to end).=C2=A0 Please let me=C2=A0k= now.

Regards,
Suneesh

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 9:48 PM Gr= eg Mirsky <gr= egimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Saneesh,
thank you for your=C2= =A0feedback. Please kindly consider the update to the draft reflected in th= e attached diff. Please let us know if the changes address your comments.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 4:31 PM Suneesh &= lt;suneeshbk@gmail= .com> wrote:
Thanks Greg for the update, please find my comments in= line below.

Regards,
Suneesh

On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:09 AM Greg Mir= sky <gregimir= sky@gmail.com> wrote:
Now with the updated address to reach Giusepp= e.

On Wed, Nov 21, 201= 8 at 10:37 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Suneesh,
thank y= ou for the=C2=A0feedback and the detailed=C2=A0questions. Please find my re= sponses and notes in-line below tagged GIM>>.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 9:24 AM Suneesh <suneeshbk@gmail.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Hi Greg,
=C2=A0
I have following comments= on PMMM draft, please share your thoughts.
=C2=A0
Q1. = Can you please share how the draft is viewed as a hybrid model?
=
GIM>> RFC 7799 provided the definition of act= ive and passive measurement methods. Hybrid methods are "in between&qu= ot; these two groups. Even though the Alternate marking in BIER domain may = use already preallocated field, it does change the content of the header by= applying the marking values in the OAM field. Thus it is neither passive, = nor active method but "in between", i.e., hybrid. Would you agree= ?=C2=A0
Suneesh>&g= t;> Agreed=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0
Ref: Section-3:
=C2=A0
<snip>
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0the marking method in BIER layer can be viewed as the example of the<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0hybrid performance measurement method
<= /snip>
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Q2. Can you please de= fine what is meant by sub-flows
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a). Is the sub-flow = set of flows on which marking method is applied OR
=C2=A0 =C2=A0b= ). sub-flow-1 with say marking 0 and sub flow-2 with say marking 1 OR
=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0c). Being a hybrid model, draft proposes to duplicate the= multicast stream which is having marking and treated those as sub-flows?
GIM>> We use the term "sub-flo= w" as you've described in b).=C2=A0
=
Suneesh>>> Would be great if we can captur= e in the draft for more clarity=C2=A0=C2=A0
Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation
<snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Using the marking method a BFR creates distinct sub-flows i= n the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0particular multicast traffic over BIER layer
</snip>=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
<= div>Q3. Is there any recommended values for 'number of packets' or/= and 'time duration' for alternate marking method
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 a). Just to know what is recommended to avoid say number of packets/= time duration =3D 1
GIM>> You'= re right, 1 or even 2 would not be useful. 3 packets? May be.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
Q4. Lets say that the nodes is like A= ->B->C->D->F->G->H->I, the segment of interest is B-&g= t;C->D for performance measurement
=C2=A0 a). Does the alterna= te marking values will clear from node D onwards?
=C2=A0 b). If n= ot, what is recommended if we wish to measure between G->H->I
GIM>> Very good question. It is expected = that the marking values be cleared at the edge of BIER domain and thus an o= perator may enable measurements on segment G-H-I at any time.
Suneesh>> Please consider ad= ding it to the draft=C2=A0=C2=A0
= =C2=A0=C2=A0
Ref: Section-4: Theory of Operation
=C2=A0=
<snip>=C2=A0
=C2=A0 Any combination of markings,= Loss and/or Delay, can be applied to a multicast flow by
=C2=A0 = any Bit Forwarding Router (BFR) at either ingress or egress point to
<= div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0perform node, link, segment or end-to-end measurement to d= etect
=C2=A0 =C2=A0performance degradation defect and localize it= efficiently.
</snip>
=C2=A0
Q5. Can we= somewhere capture that 'proto' field of BIER header should not be = "OAM request/reply", though we are using OAM bits in header.
=C2=A0
<snip>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The OAM field MU= ST be used only
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for the performance measurement of d= ata traffic in BIER layer.
</snip>
=C2=A0
GIM>> I think it would be too restrictive= . One may want to measure performance of BIER OAM.=C2=A0
<= /blockquote>
Suneesh >>> I understood your = point. Thanks.
=C2=A0
Regards,
Suneesh
--0000000000007439b8057cb97c35-- From nobody Tue Dec 11 01:52:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 556D71200B3; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 01:51:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <154452191430.13233.4416630758933175059@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 01:51:54 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-05.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 09:51:54 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : Performance Measurement (PM) with Marking Method in Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) Layer Authors : Greg Mirsky Lianshu Zheng Mach Chen Giuseppe Fioccola Filename : draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-05.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2018-12-11 Abstract: This document describes a hybrid performance measurement method for multicast service over Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) domain. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 18 09:04:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A656713113E; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:04:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <154515268062.5681.17525938213560085872@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:04:40 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:04:41 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : Path Maximum Transmission Unit Discovery (PMTUD) for Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) Layer Authors : Greg Mirsky Tony Przygienda Andrew Dolganow Filename : draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2018-12-18 Abstract: This document describes Path Maximum Transmission Unit Discovery (PMTUD) in Bit Indexed Explicit Replication (BIER) layer. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 18 09:08:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D605A13113E; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:07:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1AsbkPoPHgy0; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59F52130EC9; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id v1-v6so14896065ljd.0; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:07:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=I3YQjPQ1VQjlGE4h6VvqOYRCtpPs86JjE9UN9sIdJNA=; b=Gn0rfl4XZI/A8EVD4dPjjjtQQN7Lun2cZxiRQU1PTirRnwbLfiEI/2THvg18XU67fB cVBXa9Z3Do02aQ7dfZMVXxOzc+riqod8d9xwq4at4Eo2rCGJIAWOGYzo7DLfvHZILHvp GAnm36j+2yUyAGgptsDUKbfB1nVpQEEWcTNuGNImy9MrWniy1bYzRFxb1atZOijWWmKY qrCgBD8OAR3o195Vfxj2bzp38JB59rTdSOFxg7Pd6IyIJnXx/JgRUZPjoQxYP3cOk7HR sNfYLpMUwXenq3wt5lTgEx1hP9Gk9xrOO7mYJsB27xkLN+vVs1hZLK9uwDIt6BD8sKt2 jRXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=I3YQjPQ1VQjlGE4h6VvqOYRCtpPs86JjE9UN9sIdJNA=; b=KsY36FVCFEU2Rbje2FtiMIwmEpQd6wpAJVImaQmYYTkoDTaXlec/q335EjMt7Q/hix g5O4tHdNpyktJ0fgzoVQcvqUBX+cv9bGmzJVGm+5T82YwYAWZCwD46hq9lGDOxx25zRo 28uJGBpTCqyIQxKvW71RFD98vYr6Hj47UpF2AFhsG35Phx+bnqSN7niA7Yuw/VRPyq1X juLmuHnAq4oiqmxUWS9TqkE8Vr8/z8tz9ird4Y7g6AE3eBR8arEFTjOCD7u5lJors+eL QUoXP7dwHiOn70R7XSykdHmvXzo3OgcKk/grM489lP6EA5htd7D9UoWrAWXtmrdgwwRb v87Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYkAZvB8soohf9xcYo8y2k6zGSm3ax+TIF5CGUTHMxzmfKxbejs ivgi1IbSH6QNwN6/5hfQ3/rilLArRaboK6gYPbsmqA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/XOgQUDk9ZCF5HDeXUp8knE5kMqR4mfb/bJYM9TpTMgSaVRYLIqZi/wqDXW8u9cNBkckjpuTed3NHiqel6FAMo= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9c52:: with SMTP id t18-v6mr5055919ljj.149.1545152874769; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:07:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154515268062.5681.17525938213560085872@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <154515268062.5681.17525938213560085872@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:07:43 +0000 Message-ID: To: BIER WG Cc: bier-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000397201057d4ef0e2" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:08:00 -0000 --000000000000397201057d4ef0e2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear All, this is technical upload to refresh the document and avoid expiration. Ready for Shepherd's write-up. Regards, Greg ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Date: Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 9:04 AM Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05.txt To: Cc: A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : Path Maximum Transmission Unit Discovery (PMTUD) for Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) Layer Authors : Greg Mirsky Tony Przygienda Andrew Dolganow Filename : draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2018-12-18 Abstract: This document describes Path Maximum Transmission Unit Discovery (PMTUD) in Bit Indexed Explicit Replication (BIER) layer. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ BIER mailing list BIER@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier --000000000000397201057d4ef0e2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear All,
this is technical upload to refresh the = document and avoid expiration. Ready for Shepherd's write-up.

Regards,
Greg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-draf= ts@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 9:04 AM
Subject= : [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05.txt
To: <= i-d-announce@ietf.org>
C= c: <bier@ietf.org>


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the= IETF.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= Path Maximum Transmission Unit Discovery (PMTUD) for Bit Index Explicit Re= plication (BIER) Layer
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Greg= Mirsky
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tony Przygienda
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Andrew Dolganow
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 8
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2018-12-18

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes Path Maximum Transmission Unit Discove= ry
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(PMTUD) in Bit Indexed Explicit Replication (BIER) layer.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i= etf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05
https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdif= f?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bier-path-mtu-discovery-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
--000000000000397201057d4ef0e2-- From nobody Thu Dec 20 10:45:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A38E130E6C; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 10:45:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: aretana.ietf@gmail.com, bier@ietf.org, gjshep@gmail.com, bier-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154533153542.18992.2090580036463572285.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 10:45:35 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] bier - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 104 X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 18:45:36 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Greg Shepherd, a Chair of the bier working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Bit Indexed Explicit Replication Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Greg Shepherd Number of Sessions: 2 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours, 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 40 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: babel lsr mboned pim roll rift mpls spring People who must be present: Tony Przygienda Greg Shepherd Alvaro Retana Resources Requested: Special Requests: ---------------------------------------------------------