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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Xiayang (Yolanda)" <yolanda.xia@huawei.com>, Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj@huawei.com>, Mike McBride <mmcbride7@gmail.com>, Liang Geng <gengliang@chinamobile.com>, Yangang <yangang@huawei.com>, Rajiv Asati <rajiva@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02.txt
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 08:49:28 +0000
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj@huawei.com>, Mike McBride <mmcbride7@gmail.com>, Liang Geng <gengliang@chinamobile.com>
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Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01.txt
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj@huawei.com>, Aijun Wang <wangaj.bri@chinatelecom.cn>, Yangang <yangang@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF.

        Title           : BIER IPv6 Requirements
        Authors         : Mike McBride
                          Jingrong Xie
                          Senthil Dhanaraj
                          Rajiv Asati
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements-01.txt
	Pages           : 13
	Date            : 2019-07-01

Abstract:
   The BIER WG has a charter item to work on mechanisms which use BIER
   natively in IPv6.  This document is intended to help the WG with this
   effort by specifying requirements for transporting packets, with Bit
   Index Explicit Replication (BIER) headers, in an IPv6 environment.
   There will be a need to send IPv6 payloads, to multiple IPv6
   destinations, using BIER.  There have been several proposed solutions
   in this area.  But there hasn't been a document which describes the
   problem and lists the requirements.  The goal of this document is to
   describe the BIER IPv6 requirements and summarize the pro's and con's
   of the proposed solutions.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Cc: draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam@ietf.org,  Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>,  BIER WG Chairs <bier-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] AD Review of draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-05
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On June 29, 2019 at 5:22:37 PM, Greg Mirsky (gregimirsky@gmail.com) wrote:

Greg:

Hi!

many thanks for your review, detailed questions, and the most helpful
suggestions. I've prepared the updated new version to address the nits,
minor and major issues you've pointed out. Please find my answers, notes
in-lined tagged GIM>>. We, the authors, will discuss your other comments
and respond to them soon.

As I mentioned before, I will be returning the document to the WG for
additional work.  Please submit an update in line with your responses =E2=
=80=94 I
think there are improvements, but the large underlying issues remain, which
is what I want the WG to discuss.  I will return the document as soon as
you submit the update.

I have a couple of comments inline.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


...

(1) This document uses the PNPM method described in rfc8321, which makes
> that RFC a required Normative reference because it "must be read to
> understand or implement the technology" [1].  Note that some of my commen=
ts
> below are precisely about being explicit with the use of PNPM; the text
> talks about the marking method in general...
>
GIM>> Moved to the Normative section of referenced documents.

That=E2=80=99s a required first step=E2=80=A6but the question of this docum=
ent=E2=80=99s status is
the bigger one:

(2) The use of PNPM results then in the fact that this document cannot be
> on the Standards Track because rfc8321 is Experimental.  In general,
> downward references are possible, but I don't think this is one of those
> cases.  The Shepherd writeup for rfc8321 [2] states that "the measurement
> utility of this extension still is to be demonstrated at a variety of
> scales in a plurality of network conditions."  As far as I can tell, that
> hasn't been demonstrated, nor specific information about the completion o=
f
> the experiment was included in the RFC text.  I didn't see the topic of t=
he
> document status discussed in the WG -- nor am I aware of discussions abou=
t
> the maturity of rfc8321 in the ippm WG.  The result is then that this
> document should be either Informational or Experimental.
>
> (3) Before digging further into the status of rfc8321, I want to ask the
> question of the applicability of PNPM to multicast traffic, is it?  On on=
e
> hand, I see that rfc8321 reports that the "methodology has been used
> experimentally in Telecom Italia's network and is applied to
> multicast...".  On the other hand, draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark [*=
]
> starts by saying that rfc8321 "can be applied only to point-to-point
> flows".  I think that we could stretch the use of PNPM to monitor
> (referring to Figure 2) both A-C-G and A-C-F using a single set of markin=
gs
> at A...but that piece of the methodology is not specified in the document=
.
>
GIM>> I think that the characterization of the method described in RFC 8321
in draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark must be revised. The multipoint
draft discusses methods needed to use the Alternate Marking method in cases
with multiple marking nodes, i.e., mp2p and mp2mp use cases. RFC 8321
addressed use case with a single marking node in the network and such use
cases fir with p2p and p2mp scenarios.

It would be a good idea then to clarify those scenarios here, with respect
to the BIER application=E2=80=A6. I couldn=E2=80=99t find an explicit discu=
ssion of those
scenarios in rfc8321: I searched for p2mp, p2p, multipoint, multi-point=E2=
=80=A6


(4) Finally, what is the relationship between this document and
> draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements?  How does this document address the
> requirements?  Why isn't draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements even mentioned?
>
GIM>> Added reference to specific requirements in the Introduction section:
   The method, called Packet Network Performance Monitoring
   (PNPM), can be used to measure packet loss, latency, and jitter on
   live traffic complies with requirements #5 and #12 listed in
   [I-D.ietf-bier-oam-requirements].

Ok=E2=80=A6but I-D.ietf-bier-oam-requirements lists 14 total requirements, =
many of
them with =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D.  What about them?


...

[major] It's not clear to me whether PNPM is known as *the* Marking Method,
> or if it is simply *a* marking method.  Please clarify.  I note that the
> later mentions to "marking method" are all in lower case, which seem to
> imply something generic -- if referring to PNPM, it would be better to do
> it explicitly.
>
GIM>> Changed to "a marking method". Removed MM from the Terminology
section.

The text in general talks about =E2=80=9Cmarking method=E2=80=9D, not PNPM=
=E2=80=A6it would be
better if the Normative sections talked about PNPM and not just a marking
method.


...

[major] "...if the operator initially monitors A-C-G and A-B-D segments he
> may enable measurements on segments C-F and B-E at any time."  How?  A
> similar question was asked in the Shepherd's review, and the answer
> included this: "the AltMark domain may be arbitrary and not identical to
> the BIER domain. But from operational PoV, I believe, it is useful to app=
ly
> AltMark at BFIR and then clear them by removing BIER encapsulation at
> BFERs." [3]  However, the document doesn't have any type of discussion
> related to the existence of multiple types of domains, or their
> congruence...much less operational guidance.  Please be explicit about th=
e
> potential different domains, their relationship to the specification in
> rfc8296 and provide operational guidance in an Operational Considerations
> section.
>
GIM>> Added the Operational Consideration section.

Assuming that A is the BFIR, the new section doesn=E2=80=99t explain the
measurement of C-F, for example.

...

[major] "this method is sensitive to packet loss and re-ordering of
> packets"  It will be important to point at the Considerations section fro=
m
> rfc8321.  It would be ideal to do so in the Operational Considerations
> section.
>
GIM>> Appreciate your feedback on the new section in the updated version of
the draft.

I think of an Operational Considerations section as one that gives
operators guidance on the use of the feature.  In this case, pointing at
rfc8321 helps provide some background, but it doesn=E2=80=99t help the oper=
ator in
actual settings like deciding the length of time, or number of packets, to
be used in each monitored flow.


>
> 203   o  Average Packet Delay calculation: an average delay is calculated
> 204      by considering the average arrival time of the packets within a
> 205      single block.  A BFR may collect timestamps for each packet
> 206      received within a single block.  Average of the timestamp is the
> 207      sum of all the timestamps divided by the total number of packets
> 208      received.  Then the difference between averages calculated at tw=
o
> 209      monitoring points is the average packet delay on that segment.
> 210      This method is robust to out of order packets and also to packet
> 211      loss (only a small error is introduced).  This method only
> 212      provides a single metric for the duration of the block and it
> 213      doesn't give the minimum and maximum delay values.  This
> 214      limitation could be overcome by reducing the duration of the blo=
ck
> 215      by means of a highly optimized implementation of the method.
>
> [minor] "Then the difference between averages calculated at two monitorin=
g
> points is the average packet delay on that segment."  Maybe my math is
> rusty, but I would have thought the average delay to be the average of th=
e
> averages, not the difference.  ??
>
GIM>> I think that the text needs improvement to clarify the math used here=
:
      Then the difference between the average packet arrival
      time calculated for the downstream monitoring point and the same
      metric but calculated at the upstream monitoring point is the
      average packet delay on the segment between these two points.

>
> [minor] "only a small error is introduced"  This seems to be a statement
> of faith: no proof or justification.
>
GIM>> The new text to explain that conclusion added:
      This method is robust to out of order packets and also to packet
      loss on the segment between the measurement points (packet loss
      may cause a minor loss of accuracy in the calculated metric
      because the number of packets used is different at each
      measurement point).

This is true but only as the BIER traffic is =E2=80=9Cforked off=E2=80=9D.


...

240 5.  IANA Considerations
>

> 242   This document requests IANA to register format of the OAM field of
> 243   BIER Header as the following:
>
> [major] =C2=A73 calls these bits L and D.
>
GIM>> Missed to update Section 3 to 'S' and 'D'. Should be fixed now.

>
> [major] If you're assigning values to all the bits in the field, then a
> registry is not needed.
>
> [major] If you want to set up a registry to avoid others using the bits i=
n
> different ways, then that requires an Update to rfc8296.  The way I read
> rfc8296 is that there could be multiple ways of using the field.  I also
> didn't see this type of discussion in the WG archive.
>
> 245   +--------------+---------+--------------------------+--------------=
-+
> 246   | Bit Position | Marking | Description              | Reference    =
 |
> 247   +--------------+---------+--------------------------+--------------=
-+
> 248   |      0       |    S    | Single Mark Measurement  | This document=
 |
> 249   |      1       |    D    | Double Mark Measurement  | This document=
 |
> 250   +--------------+---------+--------------------------+--------------=
-+
>
> 252                     Table 1: OAM field of BIER Header
>
> [major] =C2=A73 uses a different description, which seems inline with =C2=
=A74.
> Also, the use of a single bit doesn't indicate (according to =C2=A74) the=
 type
> of measurement done.
>
GIM>> I recall that the naming of the flags was discussed and there was a
suggestion to use more generic names than Loss and Delay because other
performance metrics can be measured using this method.

My point was that the name doesn=E2=80=99t reflect the use for what is desc=
ribed in
this document.  In the Double-Marking case, for example, both flags are
used.

As I mentioned above, if this document wants to define the use of the bits
in general, then an Update to rfc8296 will be needed.  Personally, I don=E2=
=80=99t
think that is the best direction=E2=80=A6specially since the a priori confi=
guration
(and not in-line signaling) is used for the nodes to know which OAM method
is being used.  But that is just my personal opinion=E2=80=A6the WG can dec=
ide
something different.

GIM>> Also, a more compact marking method has been proposed in
draft-mizrahi-ippm-compact-alternate-marking
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mizrahi-ippm-compact-alternate-mark=
ing/>.
This method allows the measurement of packet loss and packet delay using
one-bit long field.

Ok=E2=80=A6but that draft is not mentioned in this document?  Are you sugge=
sting
that the compact marking method could be used instead (?) of what is
defined in rfc8321?  This obviously needs more WG discussion as well.

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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">On June 29, 2019 at 5:22:37 PM, Greg Mirsky (<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>) wrote:</di=
v><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Greg:</div><div style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"fon=
t-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Hi!</div><div style=3D"font-family=
:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div> <div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font=
-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:no=
rmal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:norma=
l;word-spacing:0px"><span><div></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>many thanks for your review, detailed questions, and the most helpful sugg=
estions. I&#39;ve prepared the updated new version to address the nits, min=
or and major issues you&#39;ve pointed out. Please find my answers, notes i=
n-lined tagged GIM&gt;&gt;. We, the authors, will discuss your other commen=
ts and respond to them soon.</div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>=
As I mentioned before, I will be returning the document to the WG for addit=
ional work.=C2=A0 Please submit an update in line with your responses =E2=
=80=94 I think there are improvements, but the large underlying issues rema=
in, which is what I want the WG to discuss.=C2=A0 I will return the documen=
t as soon as you submit the update.</p><p>I have a couple of comments inlin=
e.</p><p>Thanks!</p><p>Alvaro.</p><p><br></p><p>...</p><div><div><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;fon=
t-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;l=
etter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;w=
hite-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div =
style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px">(1) This document uses the P=
NPM method described in rfc8321, which makes that RFC a required Normative =
reference because it &quot;must be read to understand or implement the tech=
nology&quot; [1].=C2=A0 Note that some of my comments below are precisely a=
bout being explicit with the use of PNPM; the text talks about the marking =
method in general...</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Moved t=
o the Normative section of referenced documents.=C2=A0</div></div></div></s=
pan></blockquote></div><p>That=E2=80=99s a required first step=E2=80=A6but =
the question of this document=E2=80=99s status is the bigger one:</p><div><=
div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-w=
eight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tr=
ansform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left=
-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: brea=
k-word;"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px">(2) The use of=
 PNPM results then in the fact that this document cannot be on the Standard=
s Track because rfc8321 is Experimental.=C2=A0 In general, downward referen=
ces are possible, but I don&#39;t think this is one of those cases.=C2=A0 T=
he Shepherd writeup for rfc8321 [2] states that &quot;the measurement utili=
ty of this extension still is to be demonstrated at a variety of scales in =
a plurality of network conditions.&quot; =C2=A0As far as I can tell, that h=
asn&#39;t been demonstrated, nor specific information about the completion =
of the experiment was included in the RFC text.=C2=A0 I didn&#39;t see the =
topic of the document status discussed in the WG -- nor am I aware of discu=
ssions about the maturity of rfc8321 in the ippm WG.=C2=A0 The result is th=
en that this document should be either Informational or Experimental.</div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">(3) Before di=
gging further into the status of rfc8321, I want to ask the question of the=
 applicability of PNPM to multicast traffic, is it?=C2=A0 On one hand, I se=
e that rfc8321 reports that the &quot;methodology has been used experimenta=
lly in Telecom Italia&#39;s network and is applied to multicast...&quot;.=
=C2=A0 On the other hand, draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark [*] starts by=
 saying that rfc8321 &quot;can be applied only to point-to-point flows&quot=
;.=C2=A0 I think that we could stretch the use of PNPM to monitor (referrin=
g to Figure 2) both A-C-G and A-C-F using a single set of markings at A...b=
ut that piece of the methodology is not specified in the document.</div></d=
iv></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I think that the characterization of=
 the method described in RFC 8321 in draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark mu=
st be revised. The multipoint draft discusses methods needed to use the Alt=
ernate Marking method in cases with multiple marking nodes, i.e., mp2p and =
mp2mp use cases. RFC 8321 addressed use case with a single marking node in =
the network and such use cases fir with p2p and p2mp scenarios.</div></div>=
</div></span></blockquote></div><p>It would be a good idea then to clarify =
those scenarios here, with respect to the BIER application=E2=80=A6. I coul=
dn=E2=80=99t find an explicit discussion of those scenarios in rfc8321: I s=
earched for p2mp, p2p, multipoint, multi-point=E2=80=A6</p><p><br></p><div>=
<div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helv=
etica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-=
weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-t=
ransform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-lef=
t-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: bre=
ak-word;"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px">(4) Finally, =
what is the relationship between this document and draft-ietf-bier-oam-requ=
irements?=C2=A0 How does this document address the requirements?=C2=A0 Why =
isn&#39;t draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements even mentioned?</div></div></div=
></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Added reference to specific requirements in =
the Introduction section:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The method, called Packet =
Network Performance Monitoring</div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0(PNPM), can be used to mea=
sure packet loss, latency, and jitter on<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0live traffic compl=
ies with requirements #5 and #12 listed in<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-bier-o=
am-requirements].</div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>Ok=E2=80=A6but=C2=
=A0I-D.ietf-bier-oam-requirements lists 14 total requirements, many of them=
 with =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 What about them?</p><p><br></p><p>...</=
p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:norma=
l;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px=
;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;bor=
der-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wr=
ap: break-word;"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major=
] It&#39;s not clear to me whether PNPM is known as *the* Marking Method, o=
r if it is simply *a* marking method.=C2=A0 Please clarify.=C2=A0 I note th=
at the later mentions to &quot;marking method&quot; are all in lower case, =
which seem to imply something generic -- if referring to PNPM, it would be =
better to do it explicitly.</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; =
Changed to &quot;a marking method&quot;. Removed MM from the Terminology se=
ction.</div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>The text in general ta=
lks about =E2=80=9Cmarking method=E2=80=9D, not PNPM=E2=80=A6it would be be=
tter if the Normative sections talked about PNPM and not just a marking met=
hod.</p><p><br></p><p>...</p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"c=
lean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:nor=
mal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-=
align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spa=
cing:0px"><span><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;=
border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div =
style=3D"margin:0px">[major] &quot;...if the operator initially monitors A-=
C-G and A-B-D segments he may enable measurements on segments C-F and B-E a=
t any time.&quot; =C2=A0How?=C2=A0 A similar question was asked in the Shep=
herd&#39;s review, and the answer included this: &quot;the AltMark domain m=
ay be arbitrary and not identical to the BIER domain. But from operational =
PoV, I believe, it is useful to apply AltMark at BFIR and then clear them b=
y removing BIER encapsulation at BFERs.&quot; [3] =C2=A0However, the docume=
nt doesn&#39;t have any type of discussion related to the existence of mult=
iple types of domains, or their congruence...much less operational guidance=
.=C2=A0 Please be explicit about the potential different domains, their rel=
ationship to the specification in rfc8296 and provide operational guidance =
in an Operational Considerations section.</div></div></div></blockquote><di=
v>GIM&gt;&gt; Added the Operational Consideration section.=C2=A0</div></div=
></div></span></blockquote></div><p>Assuming that A is the BFIR, the new se=
ction doesn=E2=80=99t explain the measurement of C-F, for example.</p><div>=
<div><br></div><div>...<br><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" sty=
le=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-var=
iant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;=
text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><s=
pan><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-=
style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=
=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px">[major] &quot;this method is sensitive to packet loss and re-order=
ing of packets&quot; =C2=A0It will be important to point at the Considerati=
ons section from rfc8321.=C2=A0 It would be ideal to do so in the Operation=
al Considerations section.</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; A=
ppreciate your feedback on the new section in the updated version of the dr=
aft.=C2=A0</div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>I think of an Oper=
ational Considerations section as one that gives operators guidance on the =
use of the feature.=C2=A0 In this case, pointing at rfc8321 helps provide s=
ome background, but it doesn=E2=80=99t help the operator in actual settings=
 like deciding the length of time, or number of packets, to be used in each=
 monitored flow.=C2=A0</p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clea=
n_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal=
;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-ali=
gn:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacin=
g:0px"><span><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;bo=
rder-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
<div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px"><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px">203 =C2=A0 o =C2=A0Average Packet Delay calculation: an=
 average delay is calculated</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">204 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0by considering the average arrival time of the packets within a</=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">205 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0single block.=C2=A0 A=
 BFR may collect timestamps for each packet</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
206 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0received within a single block.=C2=A0 Average of th=
e timestamp is the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">207 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0s=
um of all the timestamps divided by the total number of packets</div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px">208 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0received.=C2=A0 Then the differ=
ence between averages calculated at two</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">209 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0monitoring points is the average packet delay on that s=
egment.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">210 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This method =
is robust to out of order packets and also to packet</div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px">211 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0loss (only a small error is introduced).=
=C2=A0 This method only</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">212 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0provides a single metric for the duration of the block and it</div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px">213 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0doesn&#39;t give the minimu=
m and maximum delay values.=C2=A0 This</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">214 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0limitation could be overcome by reducing the duration o=
f the block</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">215 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0by means=
 of a highly optimized implementation of the method.</div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] &quot;Then the differe=
nce between averages calculated at two monitoring points is the average pac=
ket delay on that segment.&quot; =C2=A0Maybe my math is rusty, but I would =
have thought the average delay to be the average of the averages, not the d=
ifference. =C2=A0??</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I think =
that the text needs improvement to clarify the math used here:</div><div>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Then the difference between the average packet arrival=
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 time calculated for the downstream monitoring poin=
t and the same<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 metric but calculated at the upstrea=
m monitoring point is the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 average packet delay on t=
he segment between these two points.=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-l=
eft-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div s=
tyle=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D=
"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] &quot;only a small=
 error is introduced&quot; =C2=A0This seems to be a statement of faith: no =
proof or justification.</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; The =
new text to explain that conclusion added:</div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This m=
ethod is robust to out of order packets and also to packet<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 loss on the segment between the measurement points (packet loss<br>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 may cause a minor loss of accuracy in the calculated m=
etric<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 because the number of packets used is differe=
nt at each<br><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 measurement point).=C2=A0</div></di=
v></div></span></blockquote></div><p>This is true but only as the BIER traf=
fic is =E2=80=9Cforked off=E2=80=9D.</p><p><br></p><p>...</p><div><div><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Ari=
al;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:no=
rmal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:=
none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:r=
gb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"=
><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px">240 5.=C2=A0 IANA Cons=
iderations</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:s=
olid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"ove=
rflow-wrap: break-word;"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px=
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">242 =C2=A0 This document requests IAN=
A to register format of the OAM field of</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">243=
 =C2=A0 BIER Header as the following:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] =C2=A73 calls these bits L and D.</di=
v></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Missed to update Section 3 to &=
#39;S&#39; and &#39;D&#39;. Should be fixed now.=C2=A0</div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;=
border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div =
style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] If you&#39=
;re assigning values to all the bits in the field, then a registry is not n=
eeded.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[=
major] If you want to set up a registry to avoid others using the bits in d=
ifferent ways, then that requires an Update to rfc8296.=C2=A0 The way I rea=
d rfc8296 is that there could be multiple ways of using the field.=C2=A0 I =
also didn&#39;t see this type of discussion in the WG archive.</div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">245 =C2=A0 +--------=
------+---------+--------------------------+---------------+</div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">246 =C2=A0 | Bit Position | Marking | Description =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Reference =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |</div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">247 =C2=A0 +--------------+---------+-------------=
-------------+---------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">248 =C2=A0 | =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0S =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =
Single Mark Measurement =C2=A0| This document |</div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">249 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
D =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Double Mark Measurement =C2=A0| This document |</div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px">250 =C2=A0 +--------------+---------+-----------------=
---------+---------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">252 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Table 1: OAM field of BIER Header</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] =C2=A73 uses a differen=
t description, which seems inline with =C2=A74.=C2=A0 Also, the use of a si=
ngle bit doesn&#39;t indicate (according to =C2=A74) the type of measuremen=
t done.</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I recall that the na=
ming of the flags was discussed and there was a suggestion to use more gene=
ric names than Loss and Delay because other performance metrics can be meas=
ured using this method.</div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>My po=
int was that the name doesn=E2=80=99t reflect the use for what is described=
 in this document.=C2=A0 In the Double-Marking case, for example, both flag=
s are used.</p><p>As I mentioned above, if this document wants to define th=
e use of the bits in general, then an Update to rfc8296 will be needed.=C2=
=A0 Personally, I don=E2=80=99t think that is the best direction=E2=80=A6sp=
ecially since the a priori configuration (and not in-line signaling) is use=
d for the nodes to know which OAM method is being used.=C2=A0 But that is j=
ust my personal opinion=E2=80=A6the WG can decide something different.</p><=
div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:=
Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;f=
ont-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;te=
xt-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Also, a more compact marking=
 method has been proposed in=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/d=
oc/draft-mizrahi-ippm-compact-alternate-marking/">draft-mizrahi-ippm-compac=
t-alternate-marking</a>. This method allows the measurement of packet loss =
and packet delay using one-bit long field.</div></div></div></span></blockq=
uote></div><p>Ok=E2=80=A6but that draft is not mentioned in this document?=
=C2=A0 Are you suggesting that the compact marking method could be used ins=
tead (?) of what is defined in rfc8321?=C2=A0 This obviously needs more WG =
discussion as well.</p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_signature"></div></body></html>

--000000000000900e38058c9fd7c5--


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Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Performance Measurement (PM) with Marking Method in Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) Layer
        Authors         : Greg Mirsky
                          Lianshu Zheng
                          Mach Chen
                          Giuseppe Fioccola
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-06.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2019-07-01

Abstract:
   This document describes a hybrid performance measurement method for
   multicast service through a Bit Index Explicit Replication domain.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-06
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-06


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 10:39:28 -0700
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To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam@ietf.org,  Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>,  BIER WG Chairs <bier-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] AD Review of draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam-05
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Hi Alvaro,
thank you for your kind consideration of the proposed updates and sharing
additional comments. The new version has bee posted. We'll prepare for the
discussion at BIER meeting in Montreal. Please find my follow-up notes
in-line tagged GIM2>>.

Best regards,
Greg

On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 7:57 AM Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com> wrote=
:

> On June 29, 2019 at 5:22:37 PM, Greg Mirsky (gregimirsky@gmail.com) wrote=
:
>
> Greg:
>
> Hi!
>
> many thanks for your review, detailed questions, and the most helpful
> suggestions. I've prepared the updated new version to address the nits,
> minor and major issues you've pointed out. Please find my answers, notes
> in-lined tagged GIM>>. We, the authors, will discuss your other comments
> and respond to them soon.
>
> As I mentioned before, I will be returning the document to the WG for
> additional work.  Please submit an update in line with your responses =E2=
=80=94 I
> think there are improvements, but the large underlying issues remain, whi=
ch
> is what I want the WG to discuss.  I will return the document as soon as
> you submit the update.
>
> I have a couple of comments inline.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Alvaro.
>
>
> ...
>
> (1) This document uses the PNPM method described in rfc8321, which makes
>> that RFC a required Normative reference because it "must be read to
>> understand or implement the technology" [1].  Note that some of my comme=
nts
>> below are precisely about being explicit with the use of PNPM; the text
>> talks about the marking method in general...
>>
> GIM>> Moved to the Normative section of referenced documents.
>
> That=E2=80=99s a required first step=E2=80=A6but the question of this doc=
ument=E2=80=99s status is
> the bigger one:
>
> (2) The use of PNPM results then in the fact that this document cannot be
>> on the Standards Track because rfc8321 is Experimental.  In general,
>> downward references are possible, but I don't think this is one of those
>> cases.  The Shepherd writeup for rfc8321 [2] states that "the measuremen=
t
>> utility of this extension still is to be demonstrated at a variety of
>> scales in a plurality of network conditions."  As far as I can tell, tha=
t
>> hasn't been demonstrated, nor specific information about the completion =
of
>> the experiment was included in the RFC text.  I didn't see the topic of =
the
>> document status discussed in the WG -- nor am I aware of discussions abo=
ut
>> the maturity of rfc8321 in the ippm WG.  The result is then that this
>> document should be either Informational or Experimental.
>>
>> (3) Before digging further into the status of rfc8321, I want to ask the
>> question of the applicability of PNPM to multicast traffic, is it?  On o=
ne
>> hand, I see that rfc8321 reports that the "methodology has been used
>> experimentally in Telecom Italia's network and is applied to
>> multicast...".  On the other hand, draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark [=
*]
>> starts by saying that rfc8321 "can be applied only to point-to-point
>> flows".  I think that we could stretch the use of PNPM to monitor
>> (referring to Figure 2) both A-C-G and A-C-F using a single set of marki=
ngs
>> at A...but that piece of the methodology is not specified in the documen=
t.
>>
> GIM>> I think that the characterization of the method described in RFC
> 8321 in draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark must be revised. The multipoi=
nt
> draft discusses methods needed to use the Alternate Marking method in cas=
es
> with multiple marking nodes, i.e., mp2p and mp2mp use cases. RFC 8321
> addressed use case with a single marking node in the network and such use
> cases fir with p2p and p2mp scenarios.
>
> It would be a good idea then to clarify those scenarios here, with respec=
t
> to the BIER application=E2=80=A6. I couldn=E2=80=99t find an explicit dis=
cussion of those
> scenarios in rfc8321: I searched for p2mp, p2p, multipoint, multi-point=
=E2=80=A6
>
GIM2>> Yes, RFC8321 would have been the most appropriate for such
discussion. Will work on adding some of it in this document and work with
authors of draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark (with the help from
Giuseppe).

>
> (4) Finally, what is the relationship between this document and
>> draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements?  How does this document address the
>> requirements?  Why isn't draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements even mentioned=
?
>>
> GIM>> Added reference to specific requirements in the Introduction sectio=
n:
>    The method, called Packet Network Performance Monitoring
>    (PNPM), can be used to measure packet loss, latency, and jitter on
>    live traffic complies with requirements #5 and #12 listed in
>    [I-D.ietf-bier-oam-requirements].
>
> Ok=E2=80=A6but I-D.ietf-bier-oam-requirements lists 14 total requirements=
, many of
> them with =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D.  What about them?
>
GIM2>> The Alternate-Marking method is to support performance monitoring
and cannot be used to detect failures in a network, which is the task for
the Fault Management OAM protocols. Also, as a hybrid OAM method, it cannot
be used proactively, i.e., without the data flow being present in the
network. But I agree, more requirements listed can be referenced, i.e.,
related to the manageability of OAM in BIER. Will work on that for the next
update.

>
> ...
>
> [major] It's not clear to me whether PNPM is known as *the* Marking
>> Method, or if it is simply *a* marking method.  Please clarify.  I note
>> that the later mentions to "marking method" are all in lower case, which
>> seem to imply something generic -- if referring to PNPM, it would be bet=
ter
>> to do it explicitly.
>>
> GIM>> Changed to "a marking method". Removed MM from the Terminology
> section.
>
> The text in general talks about =E2=80=9Cmarking method=E2=80=9D, not PNP=
M=E2=80=A6it would be
> better if the Normative sections talked about PNPM and not just a marking
> method.
>
GIM2>> I've re-checked RFC 8321 and it looks that the term PNPM is used
only once in the document. To be consistent with the terminology of RFC
8321, I think, this draft should refer to the Alternate-Marking Method
(AMM) rather than "marking method". What do you think?

>
> ...
>
> [major] "...if the operator initially monitors A-C-G and A-B-D segments h=
e
>> may enable measurements on segments C-F and B-E at any time."  How?  A
>> similar question was asked in the Shepherd's review, and the answer
>> included this: "the AltMark domain may be arbitrary and not identical to
>> the BIER domain. But from operational PoV, I believe, it is useful to ap=
ply
>> AltMark at BFIR and then clear them by removing BIER encapsulation at
>> BFERs." [3]  However, the document doesn't have any type of discussion
>> related to the existence of multiple types of domains, or their
>> congruence...much less operational guidance.  Please be explicit about t=
he
>> potential different domains, their relationship to the specification in
>> rfc8296 and provide operational guidance in an Operational Consideration=
s
>> section.
>>
> GIM>> Added the Operational Consideration section.
>
> Assuming that A is the BFIR, the new section doesn=E2=80=99t explain the
> measurement of C-F, for example.
>
GIM2>> I clearly missed this question. The explanation can be provided (I
could have added it in the new version if I've taken time to read your
comments in details) with a simple update to the last sentence:
OLD TEXT:
   Thus for the
   scenario presented in Figure 2 if the operator initially monitors the
   A-C-G and A-B-D segments he may enable measurements on segments C-F
   and B-E at any time.
NEW TEXT:
   Thus for the
   scenario presented in Figure 2 if the operator initially monitors the
   A-C-G and A-B-D segments he may enable measurements on segments C-F
   and B-E at any time by configuring the monitoring point on nodes F or E.

>
> ...
>
> [major] "this method is sensitive to packet loss and re-ordering of
>> packets"  It will be important to point at the Considerations section fr=
om
>> rfc8321.  It would be ideal to do so in the Operational Considerations
>> section.
>>
> GIM>> Appreciate your feedback on the new section in the updated version
> of the draft.
>
> I think of an Operational Considerations section as one that gives
> operators guidance on the use of the feature.  In this case, pointing at
> rfc8321 helps provide some background, but it doesn=E2=80=99t help the op=
erator in
> actual settings like deciding the length of time, or number of packets, t=
o
> be used in each monitored flow.
>
>
>>
>> 203   o  Average Packet Delay calculation: an average delay is calculate=
d
>> 204      by considering the average arrival time of the packets within a
>> 205      single block.  A BFR may collect timestamps for each packet
>> 206      received within a single block.  Average of the timestamp is th=
e
>> 207      sum of all the timestamps divided by the total number of packet=
s
>> 208      received.  Then the difference between averages calculated at t=
wo
>> 209      monitoring points is the average packet delay on that segment.
>> 210      This method is robust to out of order packets and also to packe=
t
>> 211      loss (only a small error is introduced).  This method only
>> 212      provides a single metric for the duration of the block and it
>> 213      doesn't give the minimum and maximum delay values.  This
>> 214      limitation could be overcome by reducing the duration of the
>> block
>> 215      by means of a highly optimized implementation of the method.
>>
>> [minor] "Then the difference between averages calculated at two
>> monitoring points is the average packet delay on that segment."  Maybe m=
y
>> math is rusty, but I would have thought the average delay to be the aver=
age
>> of the averages, not the difference.  ??
>>
> GIM>> I think that the text needs improvement to clarify the math used
> here:
>       Then the difference between the average packet arrival
>       time calculated for the downstream monitoring point and the same
>       metric but calculated at the upstream monitoring point is the
>       average packet delay on the segment between these two points.
>
>>
>> [minor] "only a small error is introduced"  This seems to be a statement
>> of faith: no proof or justification.
>>
> GIM>> The new text to explain that conclusion added:
>       This method is robust to out of order packets and also to packet
>       loss on the segment between the measurement points (packet loss
>       may cause a minor loss of accuracy in the calculated metric
>       because the number of packets used is different at each
>       measurement point).
>
> This is true but only as the BIER traffic is =E2=80=9Cforked off=E2=80=9D=
.
>
>
> ...
>
> 240 5.  IANA Considerations
>>
>
>> 242   This document requests IANA to register format of the OAM field of
>> 243   BIER Header as the following:
>>
>> [major] =C2=A73 calls these bits L and D.
>>
> GIM>> Missed to update Section 3 to 'S' and 'D'. Should be fixed now.
>
>>
>> [major] If you're assigning values to all the bits in the field, then a
>> registry is not needed.
>>
>> [major] If you want to set up a registry to avoid others using the bits
>> in different ways, then that requires an Update to rfc8296.  The way I r=
ead
>> rfc8296 is that there could be multiple ways of using the field.  I also
>> didn't see this type of discussion in the WG archive.
>>
>> 245
>> +--------------+---------+--------------------------+---------------+
>> 246   | Bit Position | Marking | Description              | Reference
>> |
>> 247
>> +--------------+---------+--------------------------+---------------+
>> 248   |      0       |    S    | Single Mark Measurement  | This documen=
t
>> |
>> 249   |      1       |    D    | Double Mark Measurement  | This documen=
t
>> |
>> 250
>> +--------------+---------+--------------------------+---------------+
>>
>> 252                     Table 1: OAM field of BIER Header
>>
>> [major] =C2=A73 uses a different description, which seems inline with =
=C2=A74.
>> Also, the use of a single bit doesn't indicate (according to =C2=A74) th=
e type
>> of measurement done.
>>
> GIM>> I recall that the naming of the flags was discussed and there was a
> suggestion to use more generic names than Loss and Delay because other
> performance metrics can be measured using this method.
>
> My point was that the name doesn=E2=80=99t reflect the use for what is de=
scribed
> in this document.  In the Double-Marking case, for example, both flags ar=
e
> used.
>
> As I mentioned above, if this document wants to define the use of the bit=
s
> in general, then an Update to rfc8296 will be needed.  Personally, I don=
=E2=80=99t
> think that is the best direction=E2=80=A6specially since the a priori con=
figuration
> (and not in-line signaling) is used for the nodes to know which OAM metho=
d
> is being used.  But that is just my personal opinion=E2=80=A6the WG can d=
ecide
> something different.
>
> GIM>> Also, a more compact marking method has been proposed in
> draft-mizrahi-ippm-compact-alternate-marking
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mizrahi-ippm-compact-alternate-ma=
rking/>.
> This method allows the measurement of packet loss and packet delay using
> one-bit long field.
>
> Ok=E2=80=A6but that draft is not mentioned in this document?  Are you sug=
gesting
> that the compact marking method could be used instead (?) of what is
> defined in rfc8321?  This obviously needs more WG discussion as well.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Alvaro,<div>thank you for your kind co=
nsideration of the proposed updates and sharing additional comments. The ne=
w version has bee posted. We&#39;ll prepare for the discussion at BIER meet=
ing in Montreal. Please find my follow-up notes in-line tagged GIM2&gt;&gt;=
.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 1,=
 2019 at 7:57 AM Alvaro Retana &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.com=
">aretana.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div styl=
e=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">On June 29, 2019 at 5:22:3=
7 PM, Greg Mirsky (<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>) wrote:</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helveti=
ca,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Aria=
l;font-size:13px">Greg:</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font=
-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:1=
3px">Hi!</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br=
></div> <div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"gmail-m_-219359957228801795=
0clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px"><span><div></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">many th=
anks for your review, detailed questions, and the most helpful suggestions.=
 I&#39;ve prepared the updated new version to address the nits, minor and m=
ajor issues you&#39;ve pointed out. Please find my answers, notes in-lined =
tagged GIM&gt;&gt;. We, the authors, will discuss your other comments and r=
espond to them soon.</div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>As I men=
tioned before, I will be returning the document to the WG for additional wo=
rk.=C2=A0 Please submit an update in line with your responses =E2=80=94 I t=
hink there are improvements, but the large underlying issues remain, which =
is what I want the WG to discuss.=C2=A0 I will return the document as soon =
as you submit the update.</p><p>I have a couple of comments inline.</p><p>T=
hanks!</p><p>Alvaro.</p><p><br></p><p>...</p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"=
cite" class=3D"gmail-m_-2193599572288017950clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:H=
elvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;fo=
nt-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;tex=
t-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px">(1) This docum=
ent uses the PNPM method described in rfc8321, which makes that RFC a requi=
red Normative reference because it &quot;must be read to understand or impl=
ement the technology&quot; [1].=C2=A0 Note that some of my comments below a=
re precisely about being explicit with the use of PNPM; the text talks abou=
t the marking method in general...</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&g=
t;&gt; Moved to the Normative section of referenced documents.=C2=A0</div><=
/div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>That=E2=80=99s a required first ste=
p=E2=80=A6but the question of this document=E2=80=99s status is the bigger =
one:</p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"gmail-m_-2193599572288=
017950clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-st=
yle:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:norma=
l;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;w=
ord-spacing:0px"><span><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
 solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px">(2) The use of PNPM results then in the fact that t=
his document cannot be on the Standards Track because rfc8321 is Experiment=
al.=C2=A0 In general, downward references are possible, but I don&#39;t thi=
nk this is one of those cases.=C2=A0 The Shepherd writeup for rfc8321 [2] s=
tates that &quot;the measurement utility of this extension still is to be d=
emonstrated at a variety of scales in a plurality of network conditions.&qu=
ot; =C2=A0As far as I can tell, that hasn&#39;t been demonstrated, nor spec=
ific information about the completion of the experiment was included in the=
 RFC text.=C2=A0 I didn&#39;t see the topic of the document status discusse=
d in the WG -- nor am I aware of discussions about the maturity of rfc8321 =
in the ippm WG.=C2=A0 The result is then that this document should be eithe=
r Informational or Experimental.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">(3) Before digging further into the status of rfc8=
321, I want to ask the question of the applicability of PNPM to multicast t=
raffic, is it?=C2=A0 On one hand, I see that rfc8321 reports that the &quot=
;methodology has been used experimentally in Telecom Italia&#39;s network a=
nd is applied to multicast...&quot;.=C2=A0 On the other hand, draft-ietf-ip=
pm-multipoint-alt-mark [*] starts by saying that rfc8321 &quot;can be appli=
ed only to point-to-point flows&quot;.=C2=A0 I think that we could stretch =
the use of PNPM to monitor (referring to Figure 2) both A-C-G and A-C-F usi=
ng a single set of markings at A...but that piece of the methodology is not=
 specified in the document.</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; =
I think that the characterization of the method described in RFC 8321 in dr=
aft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark must be revised. The multipoint draft dis=
cusses methods needed to use the Alternate Marking method in cases with mul=
tiple marking nodes, i.e., mp2p and mp2mp use cases. RFC 8321 addressed use=
 case with a single marking node in the network and such use cases fir with=
 p2p and p2mp scenarios.</div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>It w=
ould be a good idea then to clarify those scenarios here, with respect to t=
he BIER application=E2=80=A6. I couldn=E2=80=99t find an explicit discussio=
n of those scenarios in rfc8321: I searched for p2mp, p2p, multipoint, mult=
i-point=E2=80=A6</p></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; Yes, R=
FC8321 would have been the most appropriate for such discussion. Will work =
on adding some of it in this document and work with authors of draft-ietf-i=
ppm-multipoint-alt-mark (with the help from Giuseppe).</div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;=
"><div><div><p><br></p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"gmail-m=
_-2193599572288017950clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-si=
ze:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;lette=
r-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white=
-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px">(4) Finally, what is the relationshi=
p between this document and draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements?=C2=A0 How doe=
s this document address the requirements?=C2=A0 Why isn&#39;t draft-ietf-bi=
er-oam-requirements even mentioned?</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&=
gt;&gt; Added reference to specific requirements in the Introduction sectio=
n:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The method, called Packet Network Performance Mon=
itoring</div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0(PNPM), can be used to measure packet loss, laten=
cy, and jitter on<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0live traffic complies with requirements #=
5 and #12 listed in<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-bier-oam-requirements].</div>=
</div></span></blockquote></div><p>Ok=E2=80=A6but=C2=A0I-D.ietf-bier-oam-re=
quirements lists 14 total requirements, many of them with =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=
=80=9D.=C2=A0 What about them?</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div=
>GIM2&gt;&gt; The Alternate-Marking method is to support performance monito=
ring and cannot be used to detect failures in a network, which is the task =
for the Fault Management OAM protocols. Also, as a hybrid OAM method, it ca=
nnot be used proactively, i.e., without the data flow being present in the =
network. But I agree, more requirements listed can be referenced, i.e., rel=
ated to the manageability of OAM in BIER. Will work on that for the next up=
date.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"=
overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><div><p><br></p><p>...</p><div><div><=
blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"gmail-m_-2193599572288017950clean_bq" sty=
le=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-var=
iant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;=
text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><s=
pan><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:=
0px">[major] It&#39;s not clear to me whether PNPM is known as *the* Markin=
g Method, or if it is simply *a* marking method.=C2=A0 Please clarify.=C2=
=A0 I note that the later mentions to &quot;marking method&quot; are all in=
 lower case, which seem to imply something generic -- if referring to PNPM,=
 it would be better to do it explicitly.</div></div></div></blockquote><div=
>GIM&gt;&gt; Changed to &quot;a marking method&quot;. Removed MM from the T=
erminology section.</div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>The text =
in general talks about =E2=80=9Cmarking method=E2=80=9D, not PNPM=E2=80=A6i=
t would be better if the Normative sections talked about PNPM and not just =
a marking method.</p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&g=
t;&gt; I&#39;ve re-checked RFC 8321 and it looks that the term PNPM is used=
 only once in the document. To be consistent with the terminology of RFC 83=
21, I think, this draft should refer to the Alternate-Marking Method (AMM) =
rather than &quot;marking method&quot;. What do you think?</div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-w=
ord;"><div><div><div><div><p><br></p><p>...</p><div><div><blockquote type=
=3D"cite" class=3D"gmail-m_-2193599572288017950clean_bq" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:norma=
l;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px=
;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] &q=
uot;...if the operator initially monitors A-C-G and A-B-D segments he may e=
nable measurements on segments C-F and B-E at any time.&quot; =C2=A0How?=C2=
=A0 A similar question was asked in the Shepherd&#39;s review, and the answ=
er included this: &quot;the AltMark domain may be arbitrary and not identic=
al to the BIER domain. But from operational PoV, I believe, it is useful to=
 apply AltMark at BFIR and then clear them by removing BIER encapsulation a=
t BFERs.&quot; [3] =C2=A0However, the document doesn&#39;t have any type of=
 discussion related to the existence of multiple types of domains, or their=
 congruence...much less operational guidance.=C2=A0 Please be explicit abou=
t the potential different domains, their relationship to the specification =
in rfc8296 and provide operational guidance in an Operational Consideration=
s section.</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Added the Operati=
onal Consideration section.=C2=A0</div></div></div></span></blockquote></di=
v><p>Assuming that A is the BFIR, the new section doesn=E2=80=99t explain t=
he measurement of C-F, for example.</p></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; I clearly missed this question. The explanat=
ion can be provided (I could have added it in the new version if I&#39;ve t=
aken time to read your comments in details) with a simple update to the las=
t sentence:</div><div>OLD TEXT:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thus for the<br>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0scenario presented in Figure 2 if the operator initially monitors=
 the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0A-C-G and A-B-D segments he may enable measurements on=
 segments C-F<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0and B-E at any time.<br></div><div>NEW TEXT:<=
/div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thus for the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0scenario presented in F=
igure 2 if the operator initially monitors the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0A-C-G and A-=
B-D segments he may enable measurements on segments C-F<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0and=
 B-E at any time by configuring the monitoring point on nodes F or E.<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflo=
w-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><br></div><div>...<=
br><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"gmail-m_-2193599572288017950clean_bq"=
 style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font=
-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:st=
art;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px=
"><span><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px">[major] &quot;this method is sensitive to packet loss and re-order=
ing of packets&quot; =C2=A0It will be important to point at the Considerati=
ons section from rfc8321.=C2=A0 It would be ideal to do so in the Operation=
al Considerations section.</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; A=
ppreciate your feedback on the new section in the updated version of the dr=
aft.=C2=A0</div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>I think of an Oper=
ational Considerations section as one that gives operators guidance on the =
use of the feature.=C2=A0 In this case, pointing at rfc8321 helps provide s=
ome background, but it doesn=E2=80=99t help the operator in actual settings=
 like deciding the length of time, or number of packets, to be used in each=
 monitored flow.=C2=A0</p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"gmai=
l-m_-2193599572288017950clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font=
-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;le=
tter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;wh=
ite-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br class=3D"gmail-m_-21935995722=
88017950Apple-interchange-newline"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">203 =
=C2=A0 o =C2=A0Average Packet Delay calculation: an average delay is calcul=
ated</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">204 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0by considering =
the average arrival time of the packets within a</div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px">205 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0single block.=C2=A0 A BFR may collect timestam=
ps for each packet</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">206 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0r=
eceived within a single block.=C2=A0 Average of the timestamp is the</div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">207 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sum of all the timestamps =
divided by the total number of packets</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">208 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0received.=C2=A0 Then the difference between averages ca=
lculated at two</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">209 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0moni=
toring points is the average packet delay on that segment.</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">210 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This method is robust to out of ord=
er packets and also to packet</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">211 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0loss (only a small error is introduced).=C2=A0 This method only</=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">212 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0provides a single met=
ric for the duration of the block and it</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">213=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0doesn&#39;t give the minimum and maximum delay values.=
=C2=A0 This</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">214 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0limitati=
on could be overcome by reducing the duration of the block</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">215 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0by means of a highly optimized impl=
ementation of the method.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px">[minor] &quot;Then the difference between averages calcul=
ated at two monitoring points is the average packet delay on that segment.&=
quot; =C2=A0Maybe my math is rusty, but I would have thought the average de=
lay to be the average of the averages, not the difference. =C2=A0??</div></=
div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I think that the text needs improve=
ment to clarify the math used here:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Then the=
 difference between the average packet arrival<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 time=
 calculated for the downstream monitoring point and the same<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 metric but calculated at the upstream monitoring point is the<br=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 average packet delay on the segment between these two=
 points.=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">[minor] &quot;only a small error is introduced&quot; =C2=
=A0This seems to be a statement of faith: no proof or justification.</div><=
/div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; The new text to explain that concl=
usion added:</div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This method is robust to out of orde=
r packets and also to packet<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 loss on the segment be=
tween the measurement points (packet loss<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 may cause=
 a minor loss of accuracy in the calculated metric<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
because the number of packets used is different at each<br><div>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 measurement point).=C2=A0</div></div></div></span></blockquote><=
/div><p>This is true but only as the BIER traffic is =E2=80=9Cforked off=E2=
=80=9D.</p><p><br></p><p>...</p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=
=3D"gmail-m_-2193599572288017950clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Ar=
ial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:n=
ormal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform=
:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div dir=3D"ltr"><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px">240 5.=C2=A0 IANA Conside=
rations</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br><=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px">242 =C2=A0 This document requests IANA to re=
gister format of the OAM field of</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">243 =C2=A0=
 BIER Header as the following:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">[major] =C2=A73 calls these bits L and D.</div></div=
></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Missed to update Section 3 to &#39;S&#=
39; and &#39;D&#39;. Should be fixed now.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] If you&#39;re assigni=
ng values to all the bits in the field, then a registry is not needed.</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] If y=
ou want to set up a registry to avoid others using the bits in different wa=
ys, then that requires an Update to rfc8296.=C2=A0 The way I read rfc8296 i=
s that there could be multiple ways of using the field.=C2=A0 I also didn&#=
39;t see this type of discussion in the WG archive.</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">245 =C2=A0 +--------------+----=
-----+--------------------------+---------------+</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">246 =C2=A0 | Bit Position | Marking | Description =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Reference =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">247 =C2=A0 +--------------+---------+----------------------=
----+---------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">248 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0S =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Single =
Mark Measurement =C2=A0| This document |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">249=
 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0D =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0| Double Mark Measurement =C2=A0| This document |</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">250 =C2=A0 +--------------+---------+----------------------=
----+---------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">252 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Table 1: OAM field of BIER Header</div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] =C2=A73 uses a different d=
escription, which seems inline with =C2=A74.=C2=A0 Also, the use of a singl=
e bit doesn&#39;t indicate (according to =C2=A74) the type of measurement d=
one.</div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I recall that the namin=
g of the flags was discussed and there was a suggestion to use more generic=
 names than Loss and Delay because other performance metrics can be measure=
d using this method.</div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>My point=
 was that the name doesn=E2=80=99t reflect the use for what is described in=
 this document.=C2=A0 In the Double-Marking case, for example, both flags a=
re used.</p><p>As I mentioned above, if this document wants to define the u=
se of the bits in general, then an Update to rfc8296 will be needed.=C2=A0 =
Personally, I don=E2=80=99t think that is the best direction=E2=80=A6specia=
lly since the a priori configuration (and not in-line signaling) is used fo=
r the nodes to know which OAM method is being used.=C2=A0 But that is just =
my personal opinion=E2=80=A6the WG can decide something different.</p><div>=
<div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"gmail-m_-2193599572288017950clean_b=
q" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;fo=
nt-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:=
start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0=
px"><span><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Also=
, a more compact marking method has been proposed in=C2=A0<a href=3D"https:=
//datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mizrahi-ippm-compact-alternate-marking/" t=
arget=3D"_blank">draft-mizrahi-ippm-compact-alternate-marking</a>. This met=
hod allows the measurement of packet loss and packet delay using one-bit lo=
ng field.</div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>Ok=E2=80=A6but that=
 draft is not mentioned in this document?=C2=A0 Are you suggesting that the=
 compact marking method could be used instead (?) of what is defined in rfc=
8321?=C2=A0 This obviously needs more WG discussion as well.</p></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail-m_-219359957=
2288017950gmail_signature"></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>

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--=====_003_next=====--

--=====_002_next=====--

--=====_001_next=====--


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From nobody Mon Jul  8 05:52:54 2019
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Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-lsr-ethernet-extensions-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF.

        Title           : LSR Extensions for BIER over Ethernet
        Authors         : Senthil Dhanaraj
                          IJsbrand Wijnands
                          Peter Psenak
                          Zhaohui Zhang
                          Gang Yan
                          Jingrong Xie
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bier-lsr-ethernet-extensions-01.txt
	Pages           : 13
	Date            : 2019-07-08

Abstract:
   Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that
   provides multicast forwarding through a "BIER domain" without
   requiring intermediate routers to maintain multicast related per-flow
   state.  BIER can be supported in MPLS and non-MPLS networks.

   This document specifies the required extensions to the IS-IS, OSPFv2
   and OSPFv3 protocols for supporting BIER in non-MPLS networks using
   BIER in Ethernet encapsulation.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-lsr-ethernet-extensions/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-lsr-ethernet-extensions-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-lsr-ethernet-extensions-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-lsr-ethernet-extensions-01


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From nobody Mon Jul  8 10:13:51 2019
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF.

        Title           : BIER Ingress Multicast Flow Overlay using Multicast Listener Discovery Protocols
        Authors         : Pierre Pfister
                          IJsbrand Wijnands
                          Stig Venaas
                          Cui(Linda) Wang
                          Zheng(Sandy) Zhang
                          Markus Stenberg
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bier-mld-02.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2019-07-08

Abstract:
   This document specifies the ingress part of a multicast flow overlay
   for BIER networks.  Using existing multicast listener discovery
   protocols, it enables multicast membership information sharing from
   egress routers, acting as listeners, toward ingress routers, acting
   as queriers.  Ingress routers keep per-egress-router state, used to
   construct the BIER bit mask associated with IP multicast packets
   entering the BIER domain.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-mld/

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https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-mld-02
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-mld-02

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From nobody Mon Jul  8 12:13:01 2019
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Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-arch-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Traffic Engineering for Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER-TE)
        Authors         : Toerless Eckert
                          Gregory Cauchie
                          Michael Menth
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bier-te-arch-03.txt
	Pages           : 39
	Date            : 2019-07-08

Abstract:
   This memo introduces per-packet stateless strict and loose path
   engineered replication and forwarding for Bit Index Explicit
   Replication packets ([RFC8279]).  This is called BIER-TE.

   BIER-TE leverages the BIER architecture ([RFC8279]) and extends it
   with a new semantic for bits in the bitstring.  BIER-TE can leverage
   BIER forwarding engines with little or no changes.

   In BIER, the BitPositions (BP) of the packets bitstring indicate BIER
   Forwarding Egress Routers (BFER), and hop-by-hop forwarding uses a
   Routing Underlay such as an IGP.

   In BIER-TE, BitPositions indicate adjacencies.  The BIFT of each BFR
   are only populated with BPs that are adjacent to the BFR in the BIER-
   TE topology.  The BIER-TE topology can consist of layer 2 or remote
   (route) adjacencies.  The BFR then replicates and forwards BIER
   packets to those adjacencies.  This results in the aforementioned
   strict and loose path forwarding.

   BIER-TE can co-exist with BIER forwarding in the same domain, for
   example by using seperate sub-domains.  In the absence of routed
   adjacencies, BIER-TE does not require a BIER routing underlay, and
   can then be operated without requiring an IGP routing protocol.

   BIER-TE operates without explicit in-network tree-building and
   carries the multicast distribution tree in the packet header.  It can
   therefore be a good fit to support multicast path steering in Segment
   Routing (SR) networks.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-te-arch/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-te-arch-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-te-arch-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-te-arch-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
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From nobody Mon Jul  8 12:37:30 2019
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Subject: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
time to this thread.

Thanks,
Shep
(chairs)

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<div dir="ltr">Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested time to this thread.<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Shep</div><div>(chairs)</div></div>

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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 14:04:53 -0700
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Hi Greg and Tony,
in his AD review of draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam, Alvaro had asked questions
that require WG consideration. I'll be glad to prepare slides. Would you
prefer it to be a separate presentation or part of WG Status update?

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:

> Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
> time to this thread.
>
> Thanks,
> Shep
> (chairs)
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Greg and Tony,<div>in his AD review of draft-ietf-bier-=
pmmm-oam, Alvaro had asked questions that require WG consideration. I&#39;l=
l be glad to prepare slides. Would you prefer it to be a separate presentat=
ion or part of WG Status update?</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><di=
v>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"=
gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:gjshep@gmail.com">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Please send agenda =
items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested time to this thread.<d=
iv><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Shep</div><div>(chairs)</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
BIER mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BIER@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 14:23:35 -0700
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Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Let's make it a slot. 10min?

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 2:05 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg and Tony,
> in his AD review of draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam, Alvaro had asked questions
> that require WG consideration. I'll be glad to prepare slides. Would you
> prefer it to be a separate presentation or part of WG Status update?
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
>> time to this thread.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shep
>> (chairs)
>> _______________________________________________
>> BIER mailing list
>> BIER@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>>
>

--0000000000003a0ea3058d320f45
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Let&#39;s make it a slot. 10min?</div><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 2:0=
5 PM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@g=
mail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Greg and Tony,<div>in his AD review of draft-ie=
tf-bier-pmmm-oam, Alvaro had asked questions that require WG consideration.=
 I&#39;ll be glad to prepare slides. Would you prefer it to be a separate p=
resentation or part of WG Status update?</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,<=
/div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requ=
ested time to this thread.<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Shep</div><=
div>(chairs)</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
BIER mailing list<br>
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 14:37:12 -0700
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To: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Cc: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Works for me.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019, 14:23 Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:

> Let's make it a slot. 10min?
>
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 2:05 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Greg and Tony,
>> in his AD review of draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam, Alvaro had asked questions
>> that require WG consideration. I'll be glad to prepare slides. Would you
>> prefer it to be a separate presentation or part of WG Status update?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
>>> time to this thread.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Shep
>>> (chairs)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BIER mailing list
>>> BIER@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>>>
>>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Works for me.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Regards,=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">Greg=C2=A0</div></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul=
 8, 2019, 14:23 Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com">gjshe=
p@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Let&#39;s make it a slot. 10min?</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 2:05 PM Gre=
g Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Greg and Tony,<div=
>in his AD review of draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam, Alvaro had asked questions t=
hat require WG consideration. I&#39;ll be glad to prepare slides. Would you=
 prefer it to be a separate presentation or part of WG Status update?</div>=
<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:=
37 PM Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k" rel=3D"noreferrer">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Please send agenda i=
tems with title, draft, speaker name, and requested time to this thread.<di=
v><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Shep</div><div>(chairs)</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
BIER mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">BIER@=
ietf.org</a><br>
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referrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><=
br>
</blockquote></div>
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CC: "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org>, "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org>, "'draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org'" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org>, "draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org" <draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org>
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 07:01:34 +0000
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Subject: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Hi,
I have the following question regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>:

This document defines native IPv6 encapsulation for BIER
   hop-by-hop forwarding or BIERin6 for short.
[XJR Q1]: authors of the draft think BIER in IPv6 encapsulation is useful, =
right?

   [RFC8296] defines the BIER encapsulation format in MPLS and non-MPLS
   environment.  In case of non-MPLS environment, a BIER packet is the
   payload of an "outer" encapsulation, which has a "next protocol"
   codepoint that is set to a value that means "non-MPLS BIER".
[XJR Q2]: Is the proposal a Layer-4 solution ?

   The IPv6 encapsulation could be used even between two directly
   connected BFRs in the following two cases:

   o  An operator mandates all traffic to be carried in IPv6.
[XJR Q3]: Do the authors prefer to use IPv6-encapsulation between directly-=
connected BFRs? Or use BIER-ETH for directly-connected BFRs ? How could dir=
ectly-connected BFRs be detected when 3 BFRs connected on a L2-switch ?

   o  A BFR does not have BIER support in its "fast forwarding path" and
      relies on "slow/software forwarding path", e.g. in environments
      like [RFC7368] where high throughput multicast forwarding
      performance is not critical.
[XJR Q4]: Does the document intend for "fast forwarding" or "slow forwardin=
g" or both ?

2.  IPv6 Header

   Whenever IPv6 encapsulation is used for BIER forwarding, The Next
   Header field in the IPv6 Header (if there are no extension headers),
   or the Next Header field in the last extension header is set to TBD,
   indicating that the payload is a BIER packet.

   If the neighbor is directly connected, The destination address in
   IPv6 header SHOULD be the neighbor's link-local address on this
   router's outgoing interface, the source destination address SHOULD be
   this router's link-local address on the outgoing interface, and the
   IPv6 TTL MUST be set to 1.  Otherwise, the destination address SHOULD
   be the BIER prefix of the BFR neighbor, the source address SHOULD be
   this router's BIER prefix, and the TTL MUST be large enough to get
   the packet to the BFR neighbor.
[XJR Q5]: In both cases, the SA and DA both change when BFR B receive BIERi=
n6 packet and send to BFR C. right?

2.1.  IPv6 Options Considerations

   RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers.  Currently
   there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination
   options header, which can carry a variable number of options.  These
   extension headers are inserted by the source node.

   For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
   options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the
   BIERin6 packet.  In this case IPv6 header, Next Header field should
   be set to TBD.  Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with
   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next
   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should
   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the
   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for
   BIERin6').
[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to judg=
e if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an incoming pac=
ket(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you have to walk the whol=
e extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the above "=
discard" action. Right?

   This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6
   encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
   options be present in a BIERin6 packet.
[XJR Q7]: What does "disjoint BIER router" mean?


In this case, if additional traffic engineering is required, IPv6 tunneling=
 (i.e.  BIERin6 over
   SRv6) can be implemented.
[XJR Q8]
Speaking of the additional SRv6 for some future requirements, I agree it is=
 important for a solution to have the flexibility.
Suppose you may support BIER payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH)=
 and DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr:
Suppose also, you may support XXX payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeade=
r(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.
Suppose also, you may support YYY payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeade=
r(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.

I guess the following processing is needed:

Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA) ;;You have to do FIB lookup anyway
Switch(Result)
Case Local Interface IPv6 Address:
If packet is (IPv6+RH)+(BIER payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(BIER payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+RH+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(BIER payload)
     Process it
Else If packet is (IPv6+RH)+(XXX payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(XXX payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+RH+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(XXX payload)
     Process it
Else If packet is (IPv6+RH)+(YYY payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(YYY payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+RH+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(YYY payload)
     Process it
Else
     Do normal things as usual (like sending ICMPv6/UDP/TCP packet to the c=
ontrol-plane)
Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Address
  Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.

The normal things will need 10 steps, the YYY payload will need 7~9 Steps, =
the XXX will need 4~6 steps...... right ? Will that be suitable for fast-pa=
th ?

[XJR Q9] Also about the flexibility, Does AH function like Integrity Check =
possibly be supported?

[XJR Q10] Also about the flexibility, Are multiple BIER Headers possibly al=
lowed ?



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have the following question regarding &lt;d=
raft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-indent:=
22.0pt;text-autospace:none">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;color:navy">This document defines native IPv6 encapsulation for BIE=
R<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; hop-by-hop forwarding or BIERin6 =
for short.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q1]: authors of the draft =
think BIER in IPv6 encapsulation is useful, right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC8296] defines the BIER encaps=
ulation format in MPLS and non-MPLS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; environment.&nbsp; In case of non=
-MPLS environment, a BIER packet is the&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;payload of an &quot;outer&qu=
ot; encapsulation, which has a &quot;next protocol&quot;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; codepoint that is set to a value =
that means &quot;non-MPLS BIER&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q2]: Is the proposal a Lay=
er-4 solution ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; The IPv6 encapsulation could be u=
sed even between two directly&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;connected BFRs in the follow=
ing two cases:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; An operator mandates all =
traffic to be carried in IPv6.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q3]: Do the authors prefer=
 to use IPv6-encapsulation between directly-connected BFRs? Or use BIER-ETH=
 for directly-connected BFRs ? How could directly-connected BFRs be detecte=
d when 3 BFRs connected on a L2-switch
 ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; A BFR does not have BIER =
support in its &quot;fast forwarding path&quot; and&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;relies on =
&quot;slow/software forwarding path&quot;, e.g. in environments<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; like [RFC7368] =
where high throughput multicast forwarding<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; performance is =
not critical.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q4]: Does the document int=
end for &#8220;fast forwarding&#8221; or &#8220;slow forwarding&#8221; or b=
oth ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">2.&nbsp; IPv6 Header<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; Whenever IPv6 encapsulation is us=
ed for BIER forwarding, The Next<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; Header field in the IPv6 Header (=
if there are no extension headers),<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; or the Next Header field in the l=
ast extension header is set to TBD,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; indicating that the payload is a =
BIER packet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the neighbor is directly conne=
cted, The destination address in&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;IPv6 header SHOULD be the ne=
ighbor's link-local address on this<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; router's outgoing interface, the =
source destination address SHOULD be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; this router's link-local address =
on the outgoing interface, and the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; IPv6 TTL MUST be set to 1.&nbsp; =
Otherwise, the destination address SHOULD<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; be the BIER prefix of the BFR nei=
ghbor, the source address SHOULD be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; this router's BIER prefix, and th=
e TTL MUST be large enough to get<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; the packet to the BFR neighbor.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q5]: In both cases, the SA=
 and DA both change when BFR B receive BIERin6 packet and send to BFR C. ri=
ght?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">2.1.&nbsp; IPv6 Options Considerations<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; RFC 8200 section 4, defines the I=
Pv6 extension headers.&nbsp; Currently<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; there are two defined extension h=
eaders, Hop-by-Hop and Destination<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options header, which can carry a=
 variable number of options.&nbsp; These<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; extension headers are inserted by=
 the source node.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; For directly connected BIER route=
rs, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options are irrelevant and SHOULD=
 NOT be inserted by BFIR on the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6 packet.&nbsp; In this cas=
e IPv6 header, Next Header field should&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;be set to TBD.&nbsp; Any IPv=
6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;multiple extension header wh=
ere the last extension header has a Next<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; Header field set to TBD, SHOULD b=
e discard and the node should<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; transmit an ICMP Parameter Proble=
m message to the source of the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code v=
alue of TBD10 ('invalid options for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6').<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the =
ext header chain and get the last NH to judge if this packet need to be dis=
card, right? For example for an incoming packet(ipv6hdr&#43;RoutingHeader&#=
43;DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;), you have to walk the
 whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the ab=
ove &#8220;discard&#8221; action. Right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; This also indicates that for disj=
oint BIER routers using IPv6<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT b=
e any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options be present in a BIERin6 p=
acket.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q7]: What does &#8220;disj=
oint BIER router&#8221; mean?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-indent:=
22.0pt;text-autospace:none">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;color:navy">In this case, if additional traffic engineering is requ=
ired, IPv6 tunneling (i.e.&nbsp; BIERin6 over<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; SRv6) can be implemented.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q8]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Speaking of the additional SRv6=
 for some future requirements, I agree it is important for a solution to ha=
ve the flexibility.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose you may support BIER pa=
yload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two option=
s(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose also, you may support X=
XX payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two o=
ptions(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose also, you may support Y=
YY payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two o=
ptions(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I guess the following processin=
g is needed:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA) ;;You=
 have to do FIB lookup anyway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Switch(Result)<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Case Local Interface IPv6 Addre=
ss:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If packet is (IPv6&#43;RH)&#43;=
(BIER payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;Des=
tOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(BIER payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;RH&=
#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(BIER payload)<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else If packet is (IPv6&#43;RH)=
&#43;(XXX payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;Des=
tOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(XXX payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;RH&=
#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(XXX payload)<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else If packet is (IPv6&#43;RH)=
&#43;(YYY payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;Des=
tOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(YYY payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;RH&=
#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(YYY payload)<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;D=
o normal things as usual (like sending ICMPv6/UDP/TCP packet to the control=
-plane)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Ad=
dress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; Do normal routing and fo=
rwarding as usual.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The normal things will need 10 =
steps, the YYY payload will need 7~9 Steps, the XXX will need 4~6 steps&#82=
30;&#8230; right ? Will that be suitable for fast-path ?<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q9] Also about the flexibi=
lity, Does AH function like Integrity Check possibly be supported?<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q10] Also about the flexib=
ility, Are multiple BIER Headers possibly allowed ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Hi Jingrong,

Please see zzh> below for my understanding.



Juniper Business Use Only
From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Xiejingrong
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2019 3:02 AM
To: draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Subject: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>

Hi,
I have the following question regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>:

This document defines native IPv6 encapsulation for BIER
   hop-by-hop forwarding or BIERin6 for short.
[XJR Q1]: authors of the draft think BIER in IPv6 encapsulation is useful, =
right?

Zzh> It's useful in the situations described in the draft: a) ipv6 tunnel b=
etween non-adjacent BFRs b) two situations even between adjacent BFRs.

   [RFC8296] defines the BIER encapsulation format in MPLS and non-MPLS
   environment.  In case of non-MPLS environment, a BIER packet is the
   payload of an "outer" encapsulation, which has a "next protocol"
   codepoint that is set to a value that means "non-MPLS BIER".
[XJR Q2]: Is the proposal a Layer-4 solution ?

Zzh> It's not about layer-4, but about any kind of "outer" encapsulation/tu=
nneling. Besides, it's in RFC8296, not in this draft.

   The IPv6 encapsulation could be used even between two directly
   connected BFRs in the following two cases:

   o  An operator mandates all traffic to be carried in IPv6.
[XJR Q3]: Do the authors prefer to use IPv6-encapsulation between directly-=
connected BFRs? Or use BIER-ETH for directly-connected BFRs ? How could dir=
ectly-connected BFRs be detected when 3 BFRs connected on a L2-switch ?

Zzh> It's the operator's choice to use IPv6-encapsulation between directly-=
connected BFRs. They don't have to use it, but they could if they want.
Zzh> BFRs connected via a L2-swtich are considered as directly-connected, a=
nd that's detected by routing.

   o  A BFR does not have BIER support in its "fast forwarding path" and
      relies on "slow/software forwarding path", e.g. in environments
      like [RFC7368] where high throughput multicast forwarding
      performance is not critical.
[XJR Q4]: Does the document intend for "fast forwarding" or "slow forwardin=
g" or both ?

Zzh> For both. For BFRs capable of BIER in the "fast forwarding path", IPv6=
 encap is not required while an operator may still choose it. For BFRs only=
 capable in the "slow path", IPv6 encap is required so that the BIER packet=
s can be directed to the slow path.

2.  IPv6 Header

   Whenever IPv6 encapsulation is used for BIER forwarding, The Next
   Header field in the IPv6 Header (if there are no extension headers),
   or the Next Header field in the last extension header is set to TBD,
   indicating that the payload is a BIER packet.

   If the neighbor is directly connected, The destination address in
   IPv6 header SHOULD be the neighbor's link-local address on this
   router's outgoing interface, the source destination address SHOULD be
   this router's link-local address on the outgoing interface, and the
   IPv6 TTL MUST be set to 1.  Otherwise, the destination address SHOULD
   be the BIER prefix of the BFR neighbor, the source address SHOULD be
   this router's BIER prefix, and the TTL MUST be large enough to get
   the packet to the BFR neighbor.
[XJR Q5]: In both cases, the SA and DA both change when BFR B receive BIERi=
n6 packet and send to BFR C. right?

Zzh> Right. The original SA/DA of the packet is in the BIER payload itself.=
 The outer IPv6 header is only for getting packet from BFR A to BFR B and t=
hen to BFR C. This is just like the ether header's SA/DA changes as the pac=
kets are routed through networks.

Jeffrey

2.1.  IPv6 Options Considerations

   RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers.  Currently
   there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination
   options header, which can carry a variable number of options.  These
   extension headers are inserted by the source node.

   For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
   options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the
   BIERin6 packet.  In this case IPv6 header, Next Header field should
   be set to TBD.  Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with
   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next
   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should
   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the
   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for
   BIERin6').
[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to judg=
e if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an incoming pac=
ket(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you have to walk the whol=
e extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the above "=
discard" action. Right?

   This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6
   encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
   options be present in a BIERin6 packet.
[XJR Q7]: What does "disjoint BIER router" mean?


In this case, if additional traffic engineering is required, IPv6 tunneling=
 (i.e.  BIERin6 over
   SRv6) can be implemented.
[XJR Q8]
Speaking of the additional SRv6 for some future requirements, I agree it is=
 important for a solution to have the flexibility.
Suppose you may support BIER payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH)=
 and DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr:
Suppose also, you may support XXX payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeade=
r(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.
Suppose also, you may support YYY payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeade=
r(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.

I guess the following processing is needed:

Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA) ;;You have to do FIB lookup anyway
Switch(Result)
Case Local Interface IPv6 Address:
If packet is (IPv6+RH)+(BIER payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(BIER payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+RH+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(BIER payload)
     Process it
Else If packet is (IPv6+RH)+(XXX payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(XXX payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+RH+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(XXX payload)
     Process it
Else If packet is (IPv6+RH)+(YYY payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(YYY payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+RH+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(YYY payload)
     Process it
Else
     Do normal things as usual (like sending ICMPv6/UDP/TCP packet to the c=
ontrol-plane)
Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Address
  Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.

The normal things will need 10 steps, the YYY payload will need 7~9 Steps, =
the XXX will need 4~6 steps...... right ? Will that be suitable for fast-pa=
th ?

[XJR Q9] Also about the flexibility, Does AH function like Integrity Check =
possibly be supported?

[XJR Q10] Also about the flexibility, Are multiple BIER Headers possibly al=
lowed ?



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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Hi Jingrong,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Please see zzh&gt; =
below for my understanding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;margin=
-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> =
BIER &lt;bier-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 9, 2019 3:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG &lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Hi,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">I have the following qu=
estion regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;:</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy;mso-fareast=
-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-indent:=
22.0pt;text-autospace:none">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:n=
avy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">This document defines native IPv6 encapsula=
tion for BIER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; hop-by-hop forwarding=
 or BIERin6 for short.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[XJR Q1]:=
 authors of the draft think BIER in IPv6 encapsulation is useful, right?<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN">Zzh&gt; It&#8217;s useful in the situations described in the draft:=
 a) ipv6 tunnel between non-adjacent BFRs b) two situations even between ad=
jacent BFRs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC8296] defines the=
 BIER encapsulation format in MPLS and non-MPLS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; environment.&nbsp; In=
 case of non-MPLS environment, a BIER packet is the&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;payload of an &q=
uot;outer&quot; encapsulation, which has a &quot;next protocol&quot;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; codepoint that is set=
 to a value that means &quot;non-MPLS BIER&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[XJR Q2]:=
 Is the proposal a Layer-4 solution ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN">Zzh&gt; It&#8217;s not about layer-4, but about any kind of &#8220;=
outer&#8221; encapsulation/tunneling. Besides, it&#8217;s in RFC8296, not i=
n this draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; The IPv6 encapsulatio=
n could be used even between two directly&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;connected BFRs i=
n the following two cases:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; An operator m=
andates all traffic to be carried in IPv6.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[XJR Q3]:=
 Do the authors prefer to use IPv6-encapsulation between directly-connected=
 BFRs? Or use BIER-ETH for directly-connected BFRs ? How could directly-con=
nected BFRs be detected when 3 BFRs
 connected on a L2-switch ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN">Zzh&gt; It&#8217;s the operator&#8217;s choice to use IPv6-encapsul=
ation between directly-connected BFRs. They don&#8217;t have to use it, but=
 they could if they want.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN">Zzh&gt; BFRs connected via a L2-swtich are considered as directly-c=
onnected, and that&#8217;s detected by routing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; A BFR does no=
t have BIER support in its &quot;fast forwarding path&quot; and&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;relies on &quot;slow/software forwarding path&quot;, e.g. in environments=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; lik=
e [RFC7368] where high throughput multicast forwarding<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; per=
formance is not critical.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[XJR Q4]:=
 Does the document intend for &#8220;fast forwarding&#8221; or &#8220;slow =
forwarding&#8221; or both ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN">Zzh&gt; For both. For BFRs capable of BIER in the &#8220;fast forwa=
rding path&#8221;, IPv6 encap is not required while an operator may still c=
hoose it. For BFRs only capable in the &#8220;slow path&#8221;,
 IPv6 encap is required so that the BIER packets can be directed to the slo=
w path.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">2.&nbsp; IPv6 Header<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; Whenever IPv6 encapsu=
lation is used for BIER forwarding, The Next<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; Header field in the I=
Pv6 Header (if there are no extension headers),<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; or the Next Header fi=
eld in the last extension header is set to TBD,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; indicating that the p=
ayload is a BIER packet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the neighbor is di=
rectly connected, The destination address in&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;IPv6 header SHOU=
LD be the neighbor's link-local address on this<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; router's outgoing int=
erface, the source destination address SHOULD be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; this router's link-lo=
cal address on the outgoing interface, and the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; IPv6 TTL MUST be set =
to 1.&nbsp; Otherwise, the destination address SHOULD<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; be the BIER prefix of=
 the BFR neighbor, the source address SHOULD be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; this router's BIER pr=
efix, and the TTL MUST be large enough to get<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; the packet to the BFR=
 neighbor.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[XJR Q5]:=
 In both cases, the SA and DA both change when BFR B receive BIERin6 packet=
 and send to BFR C. right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN">Zzh&gt; Right. The original SA/DA of the packet is in the BIER payl=
oad itself. The outer IPv6 header is only for getting packet from BFR A to =
BFR B and then to BFR C. This is just like
 the ether header&#8217;s SA/DA changes as the packets are routed through n=
etworks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN">Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">2.1.&nbsp; IPv6 Options Considerat=
ions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; RFC 8200 section 4, d=
efines the IPv6 extension headers.&nbsp; Currently<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; there are two defined=
 extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; options header, which=
 can carry a variable number of options.&nbsp; These<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; extension headers are=
 inserted by the source node.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; For directly connecte=
d BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; options are irrelevan=
t and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6 packet.&nbsp;=
 In this case IPv6 header, Next Header field should&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;be set to TBD.&n=
bsp; Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;multiple extensi=
on header where the last extension header has a Next<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; Header field set to T=
BD, SHOULD be discard and the node should<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; transmit an ICMP Para=
meter Problem message to the source of the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; packet (BFIR) with an=
 ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6').<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[XJR Q6]:=
 You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to judge if this=
 packet need to be discard, right? For example for an incoming packet(ipv6h=
dr&#43;RoutingHeader&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;),
 you have to walk the whole extension header chain until you know the last =
NH, to execute the above &#8220;discard&#8221; action. Right?<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; This also indicates t=
hat for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation, there =
SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; options be present in=
 a BIERin6 packet.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[XJR Q7]:=
 What does &#8220;disjoint BIER router&#8221; mean?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-indent:=
22.0pt;text-autospace:none">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:n=
avy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">In this case, if additional traffic enginee=
ring is required, IPv6 tunneling (i.e.&nbsp; BIERin6 over<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:navy;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp; SRv6) can be implemen=
ted.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[XJR Q8]<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Speaking =
of the additional SRv6 for some future requirements, I agree it is importan=
t for a solution to have the flexibility.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Suppose y=
ou may support BIER payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH) and Dest=
OptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Suppose a=
lso, you may support XXX payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH) and=
 DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Suppose a=
lso, you may support YYY payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH) and=
 DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">I guess t=
he following processing is needed:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Result =
=3D FIB Lookup(DA) ;;You have to do FIB lookup anyway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Switch(Re=
sult)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Case Loca=
l Interface IPv6 Address:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">If packet=
 is (IPv6&#43;RH)&#43;(BIER payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Else if p=
acket is (IPv6&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(BIER payload)<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Else if p=
acket is (IPv6&#43;RH&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(BIER pay=
load)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Else If p=
acket is (IPv6&#43;RH)&#43;(XXX payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Else if p=
acket is (IPv6&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(XXX payload)<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Else if p=
acket is (IPv6&#43;RH&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(XXX payl=
oad)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Else If p=
acket is (IPv6&#43;RH)&#43;(YYY payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Else if p=
acket is (IPv6&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(YYY payload)<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Else if p=
acket is (IPv6&#43;RH&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(YYY payl=
oad)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Else <o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Do normal things as usual (like sending ICMPv6/UDP/TCP=
 packet to the control-plane)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Case Non-=
Local Routable IPv6 Address<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp; Do=
 normal routing and forwarding as usual.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">The norma=
l things will need 10 steps, the YYY payload will need 7~9 Steps, the XXX w=
ill need 4~6 steps&#8230;&#8230; right ? Will that be suitable for fast-pat=
h ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[XJR Q9] =
Also about the flexibility, Does AH function like Integrity Check possibly =
be supported?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[XJR Q10]=
 Also about the flexibility, Are multiple BIER Headers possibly allowed ?<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_DM5PR05MB3548E853C20E03CC58C7956BD4F10DM5PR05MB3548namp_--


From nobody Tue Jul  9 08:39:25 2019
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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:38:28 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Mike McBride <mmcbride7@gmail.com>
Cc: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>, "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC - draft-ietf-bier-te-arch
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Thanks, Mike

The authors also reviewed the document and concluded that it was really
hard to get into the document context because of too many forward
dependencies. We tried to fix this by adding two hopefully good & basic
examples into the Introduction section and using them to also add
a better definition of the term "BIER-TE Topology" in the Introduction.
Hopefully this makes readin the rest of te document smoother.

Also improved text of Abstract and refined text compariing BIER-TE with SR.

http://tools.ietf.org//rfcdiff?url1=https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-te-arch-02.txt&url2=https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-te-arch-03.txt

Cheers
    Toerless

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 10:39:36AM -0700, Mike McBride wrote:
> How about three? I support.
> mike
> 
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 10:42 AM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > We cannot take two 'yes' votes and WG consensus.
> > Please, read and respond. If you don't support, then please vote as much publicly right here.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Greg
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 10:05 PM Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Support:
> >>
> >> I see great value in deterministic networks as well as IOT (with RPL).
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >>
> >> Pascal
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert
> >> > Sent: mardi 4 juin 2019 02:03
> >> > To: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
> >> > Cc: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC - draft-ietf-bier-te-arch
> >> >
> >> > +1
> >> > Obviously support as co-author.
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 12:41:26PM -0700, Greg Shepherd wrote:
> >> > > Please read and respond to this thread w/ or w/o support.
> >> > >
> >> > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-te-arch/
> >> > >
> >> > > Vote ends 5 June 2019.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks,
> >> > > Shep
> >> > > (chairs)
> >> >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > BIER mailing list
> >> > > BIER@ietf.org
> >> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > BIER mailing list
> >> > BIER@ietf.org
> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BIER mailing list
> > BIER@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier

-- 
---
tte@cs.fau.de


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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:40:56 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>, bier-chairs@ietf.org
Cc: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Greg, *:

draft-ietf-bier-te-arch is in last call, i just pushed an update with 
hopefully helpful to reader more introductory text as part of the
authors last-call review, so if useful, i'll be happy to give an update
or use the slot for any other needed discuss to close the last call.

Cheers
    Toerless

In-Reply-To: <CABFReBqpmZicvit=95Mvbj7EWuPxFXCyx7-4U-tDauJz4UztWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 08, 2019 at 02:23:35PM -0700, Greg Shepherd wrote:
> Let's make it a slot. 10min?
> 
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 2:05 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Greg and Tony,
> > in his AD review of draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam, Alvaro had asked questions
> > that require WG consideration. I'll be glad to prepare slides. Would you
> > prefer it to be a separate presentation or part of WG Status update?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
> >> time to this thread.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Shep
> >> (chairs)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BIER mailing list
> >> BIER@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
> >>
> >

> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier


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From: Stig Venaas <stig@venaas.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:14:42 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHANBt+i2aaV5e=axBKfgT5UmBgy9G=ZL53SQLEut0ysp-y6ew@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/7uGSq6RGbij5Vyl5ZsveCdHccOE>
Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Hi

I would like 10 minutes for draft-ietf-bier-mld-02.txt. Presenter is myself.

My opinion previously was that this was ready for WGLC, and I think
that was the agreement the last meeting. However, I would like to
discuss one issue and potential change to the draft.

Thanks,
Stig

On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 7:44 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
<hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> wrote:
>
> Adding the WG, Sorry hit reply only
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Hooman
>
>
>
> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:54 PM
> To: gjshep@gmail.com
> Subject: RE: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
>
>
>
> Hello
>
>
>
> 10 min for mldp signaling over bier new version of it with tLDP.
>
>
>
> Also where are we with the last call on bier-pim-signaling? I have not got any more comments and did not see a last call on it.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Hooman
>
>
>
>
>
> From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd
> Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:37 PM
> To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
>
>
>
> Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested time to this thread.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shep
>
> (chairs)
>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier


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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8DCFE3nkgeml514mbxchi_
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Thanks Jeffrey for comments on some of the questions.

Can the authors respond to the left questions ? or do authors have differen=
t opinions than listed below ??

Thanks
Jingrong


From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [mailto:zzhang@juniper.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2019 6:46 PM
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org=
; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>

Hi Jingrong,

Please see zzh> below for my understanding.



Juniper Business Use Only
From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Xiejingrong
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2019 3:02 AM
To: draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org<mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.=
org>; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>>
Subject: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>

Hi,
I have the following question regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>:

This document defines native IPv6 encapsulation for BIER
   hop-by-hop forwarding or BIERin6 for short.
[XJR Q1]: authors of the draft think BIER in IPv6 encapsulation is useful, =
right?

Zzh> It's useful in the situations described in the draft: a) ipv6 tunnel b=
etween non-adjacent BFRs b) two situations even between adjacent BFRs.

   [RFC8296] defines the BIER encapsulation format in MPLS and non-MPLS
   environment.  In case of non-MPLS environment, a BIER packet is the
   payload of an "outer" encapsulation, which has a "next protocol"
   codepoint that is set to a value that means "non-MPLS BIER".
[XJR Q2]: Is the proposal a Layer-4 solution ?

Zzh> It's not about layer-4, but about any kind of "outer" encapsulation/tu=
nneling. Besides, it's in RFC8296, not in this draft.

   The IPv6 encapsulation could be used even between two directly
   connected BFRs in the following two cases:

   o  An operator mandates all traffic to be carried in IPv6.
[XJR Q3]: Do the authors prefer to use IPv6-encapsulation between directly-=
connected BFRs? Or use BIER-ETH for directly-connected BFRs ? How could dir=
ectly-connected BFRs be detected when 3 BFRs connected on a L2-switch ?

Zzh> It's the operator's choice to use IPv6-encapsulation between directly-=
connected BFRs. They don't have to use it, but they could if they want.
Zzh> BFRs connected via a L2-swtich are considered as directly-connected, a=
nd that's detected by routing.

   o  A BFR does not have BIER support in its "fast forwarding path" and
      relies on "slow/software forwarding path", e.g. in environments
      like [RFC7368] where high throughput multicast forwarding
      performance is not critical.
[XJR Q4]: Does the document intend for "fast forwarding" or "slow forwardin=
g" or both ?

Zzh> For both. For BFRs capable of BIER in the "fast forwarding path", IPv6=
 encap is not required while an operator may still choose it. For BFRs only=
 capable in the "slow path", IPv6 encap is required so that the BIER packet=
s can be directed to the slow path.

2.  IPv6 Header

   Whenever IPv6 encapsulation is used for BIER forwarding, The Next
   Header field in the IPv6 Header (if there are no extension headers),
   or the Next Header field in the last extension header is set to TBD,
   indicating that the payload is a BIER packet.

   If the neighbor is directly connected, The destination address in
   IPv6 header SHOULD be the neighbor's link-local address on this
   router's outgoing interface, the source destination address SHOULD be
   this router's link-local address on the outgoing interface, and the
   IPv6 TTL MUST be set to 1.  Otherwise, the destination address SHOULD
   be the BIER prefix of the BFR neighbor, the source address SHOULD be
   this router's BIER prefix, and the TTL MUST be large enough to get
   the packet to the BFR neighbor.
[XJR Q5]: In both cases, the SA and DA both change when BFR B receive BIERi=
n6 packet and send to BFR C. right?

Zzh> Right. The original SA/DA of the packet is in the BIER payload itself.=
 The outer IPv6 header is only for getting packet from BFR A to BFR B and t=
hen to BFR C. This is just like the ether header's SA/DA changes as the pac=
kets are routed through networks.

Jeffrey

2.1.  IPv6 Options Considerations

   RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers.  Currently
   there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination
   options header, which can carry a variable number of options.  These
   extension headers are inserted by the source node.

   For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
   options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the
   BIERin6 packet.  In this case IPv6 header, Next Header field should
   be set to TBD.  Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with
   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next
   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should
   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the
   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for
   BIERin6').
[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to judg=
e if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an incoming pac=
ket(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you have to walk the whol=
e extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the above "=
discard" action. Right?

   This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6
   encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
   options be present in a BIERin6 packet.
[XJR Q7]: What does "disjoint BIER router" mean?


In this case, if additional traffic engineering is required, IPv6 tunneling=
 (i.e.  BIERin6 over
   SRv6) can be implemented.
[XJR Q8]
Speaking of the additional SRv6 for some future requirements, I agree it is=
 important for a solution to have the flexibility.
Suppose you may support BIER payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH)=
 and DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr:
Suppose also, you may support XXX payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeade=
r(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.
Suppose also, you may support YYY payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeade=
r(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.

I guess the following processing is needed:

Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA) ;;You have to do FIB lookup anyway
Switch(Result)
Case Local Interface IPv6 Address:
If packet is (IPv6+RH)+(BIER payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(BIER payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+RH+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(BIER payload)
     Process it
Else If packet is (IPv6+RH)+(XXX payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(XXX payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+RH+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(XXX payload)
     Process it
Else If packet is (IPv6+RH)+(YYY payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(YYY payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+RH+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(YYY payload)
     Process it
Else
     Do normal things as usual (like sending ICMPv6/UDP/TCP packet to the c=
ontrol-plane)
Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Address
  Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.

The normal things will need 10 steps, the YYY payload will need 7~9 Steps, =
the XXX will need 4~6 steps...... right ? Will that be suitable for fast-pa=
th ?

[XJR Q9] Also about the flexibility, Does AH function like Integrity Check =
possibly be supported?

[XJR Q10] Also about the flexibility, Are multiple BIER Headers possibly al=
lowed ?



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<body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"text-justi=
fy-trim:punctuation">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks =
Jeffrey for comments on some of the questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Can the=
 authors respond to the left questions ? or do authors have different opini=
ons than listed below ??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jingron=
g<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [mailto:zzhang@junipe=
r.net]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 09, 2019 6:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;xiejingrong@huawei.com&gt;; draft-zhang-bier-bie=
rin6@ietf.org; BIER WG &lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Hi J=
ingrong,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Plea=
se see zzh&gt; below for my understanding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;margin=
-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business=
 Use Only</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> BIER &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.=
org">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 9, 2019 3:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org">draft-zhang=
-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org">bi=
er@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have the following question regarding &lt;d=
raft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-indent:=
22.0pt;text-autospace:none">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;color:navy">This document defines native IPv6 encapsulation for BIE=
R<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; hop-by-hop forwarding or BIERin6 =
for short.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q1]: authors of the draft =
think BIER in IPv6 encapsulation is useful, right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Zzh&=
gt; It&#8217;s useful in the situations described in the draft: a) ipv6 tun=
nel between non-adjacent BFRs b) two situations even between adjacent BFRs.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC8296] defines the BIER encaps=
ulation format in MPLS and non-MPLS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; environment.&nbsp; In case of non=
-MPLS environment, a BIER packet is the&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;payload of an &quot;outer&qu=
ot; encapsulation, which has a &quot;next protocol&quot;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; codepoint that is set to a value =
that means &quot;non-MPLS BIER&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q2]: Is the proposal a Lay=
er-4 solution ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Zzh&=
gt; It&#8217;s not about layer-4, but about any kind of &#8220;outer&#8221;=
 encapsulation/tunneling. Besides, it&#8217;s in RFC8296, not in this draft=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; The IPv6 encapsulation could be u=
sed even between two directly&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;connected BFRs in the follow=
ing two cases:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; An operator mandates all =
traffic to be carried in IPv6.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q3]: Do the authors prefer=
 to use IPv6-encapsulation between directly-connected BFRs? Or use BIER-ETH=
 for directly-connected BFRs ? How could directly-connected BFRs be detecte=
d when 3 BFRs connected on a L2-switch
 ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Zzh&=
gt; It&#8217;s the operator&#8217;s choice to use IPv6-encapsulation betwee=
n directly-connected BFRs. They don&#8217;t have to use it, but they could =
if they want.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Zzh&=
gt; BFRs connected via a L2-swtich are considered as directly-connected, an=
d that&#8217;s detected by routing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; A BFR does not have BIER =
support in its &quot;fast forwarding path&quot; and&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;relies on =
&quot;slow/software forwarding path&quot;, e.g. in environments<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; like [RFC7368] =
where high throughput multicast forwarding<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; performance is =
not critical.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q4]: Does the document int=
end for &#8220;fast forwarding&#8221; or &#8220;slow forwarding&#8221; or b=
oth ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Zzh&=
gt; For both. For BFRs capable of BIER in the &#8220;fast forwarding path&#=
8221;, IPv6 encap is not required while an operator may still choose it. Fo=
r BFRs only capable in the &#8220;slow path&#8221;, IPv6 encap is
 required so that the BIER packets can be directed to the slow path.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">2.&nbsp; IPv6 Header<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; Whenever IPv6 encapsulation is us=
ed for BIER forwarding, The Next<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; Header field in the IPv6 Header (=
if there are no extension headers),<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; or the Next Header field in the l=
ast extension header is set to TBD,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; indicating that the payload is a =
BIER packet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the neighbor is directly conne=
cted, The destination address in&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;IPv6 header SHOULD be the ne=
ighbor's link-local address on this<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; router's outgoing interface, the =
source destination address SHOULD be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; this router's link-local address =
on the outgoing interface, and the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; IPv6 TTL MUST be set to 1.&nbsp; =
Otherwise, the destination address SHOULD<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; be the BIER prefix of the BFR nei=
ghbor, the source address SHOULD be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; this router's BIER prefix, and th=
e TTL MUST be large enough to get<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; the packet to the BFR neighbor.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q5]: In both cases, the SA=
 and DA both change when BFR B receive BIERin6 packet and send to BFR C. ri=
ght?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Zzh&=
gt; Right. The original SA/DA of the packet is in the BIER payload itself. =
The outer IPv6 header is only for getting packet from BFR A to BFR B and th=
en to BFR C. This is just like the ether
 header&#8217;s SA/DA changes as the packets are routed through networks.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Jeff=
rey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">2.1.&nbsp; IPv6 Options Considerations<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; RFC 8200 section 4, defines the I=
Pv6 extension headers.&nbsp; Currently<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; there are two defined extension h=
eaders, Hop-by-Hop and Destination<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options header, which can carry a=
 variable number of options.&nbsp; These<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; extension headers are inserted by=
 the source node.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; For directly connected BIER route=
rs, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options are irrelevant and SHOULD=
 NOT be inserted by BFIR on the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6 packet.&nbsp; In this cas=
e IPv6 header, Next Header field should&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;be set to TBD.&nbsp; Any IPv=
6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;multiple extension header wh=
ere the last extension header has a Next<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; Header field set to TBD, SHOULD b=
e discard and the node should<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; transmit an ICMP Parameter Proble=
m message to the source of the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code v=
alue of TBD10 ('invalid options for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6').<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the =
ext header chain and get the last NH to judge if this packet need to be dis=
card, right? For example for an incoming packet(ipv6hdr&#43;RoutingHeader&#=
43;DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;), you have to walk the
 whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the ab=
ove &#8220;discard&#8221; action. Right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; This also indicates that for disj=
oint BIER routers using IPv6<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT b=
e any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options be present in a BIERin6 p=
acket.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q7]: What does &#8220;disj=
oint BIER router&#8221; mean?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-indent:=
22.0pt;text-autospace:none">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;color:navy">In this case, if additional traffic engineering is requ=
ired, IPv6 tunneling (i.e.&nbsp; BIERin6 over<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left;text-autospa=
ce:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; SRv6) can be implemented.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q8]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Speaking of the additional SRv6=
 for some future requirements, I agree it is important for a solution to ha=
ve the flexibility.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose you may support BIER pa=
yload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two option=
s(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose also, you may support X=
XX payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two o=
ptions(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose also, you may support Y=
YY payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two o=
ptions(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I guess the following processin=
g is needed:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA) ;;You=
 have to do FIB lookup anyway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Switch(Result)<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Case Local Interface IPv6 Addre=
ss:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If packet is (IPv6&#43;RH)&#43;=
(BIER payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;Des=
tOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(BIER payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;RH&=
#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(BIER payload)<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else If packet is (IPv6&#43;RH)=
&#43;(XXX payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;Des=
tOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(XXX payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;RH&=
#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(XXX payload)<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else If packet is (IPv6&#43;RH)=
&#43;(YYY payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;Des=
tOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(YYY payload)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;RH&=
#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(YYY payload)<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;D=
o normal things as usual (like sending ICMPv6/UDP/TCP packet to the control=
-plane)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Ad=
dress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; Do normal routing and fo=
rwarding as usual.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The normal things will need 10 =
steps, the YYY payload will need 7~9 Steps, the XXX will need 4~6 steps&#82=
30;&#8230; right ? Will that be suitable for fast-path ?<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q9] Also about the flexibi=
lity, Does AH function like Integrity Check possibly be supported?<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q10] Also about the flexib=
ility, Are multiple BIER Headers possibly allowed ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "bier-chairs@ietf.org" <bier-chairs@ietf.org>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Request For Comments on BIER IPv6 work and documents -- RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
Thread-Index: AdU32uDY4M7XOGV+QemdVnyRKAdECw==
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:29:18 +0000
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Subject: [Bier] Request For Comments on BIER IPv6 work and documents -- RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Dear BIER WG:

I would prefer very much the comments on the maillist about BIER IPv6.
I think it is the way we improve and progress documents, and improve the wo=
rk of BIER WG.

There have been quite a number of BIERv6 drafts, and the WG had make it cle=
ar to work on "BIER natively in IPv6" in charter.

Also there have been a work achievement of BIERv6-requirements WG document =
since ietf104.

Also from this thread before, and from the recent BIER sessions, BIER'es ha=
ve shown enthusiasm on BIER IPv6:
a) ipv6 tunnel between non-adjacent BFRs
b) situations even between adjacent BFRs.

Also as the stated by Toerless in inetf104: We need to wait for the result =
in SRv6 arch and encap work as they consider 8200 requirements during revie=
w. It applicable to hear as well.
I think it is more clear now, since the SRv6 SRH had LC, the SRv6 Network P=
rogramming had adopted, the SRv6-via-ISIS had adopted, and many SRv6 deploy=
ments or implementations or ongoing implementations.

Request the WG to initiate the discussions/questions/comparisons on the fol=
lowing BIERv6 documents:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhang-bier-bierin6/

I guess you have many comments/suggestions/questions/comparisons. Do you ? =
 There had been 2* 40 minutes talk at Bankok and Prague BIER sessions!

Appreciate very much for your comments/suggestions/questions/comparisons!
Appreciate very much for the guidance from Chairs and the AD!

Thanks,
Jingrong



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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Dear BI=
ER WG:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I would=
 prefer very much the comments on the maillist about BIER IPv6.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I think=
 it is the way we improve and progress documents, and improve the work of B=
IER WG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">There h=
ave been quite a number of BIERv6 drafts, and the WG had make it clear to w=
ork on &quot;BIER natively in IPv6&quot; in charter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also th=
ere have been a work achievement of BIERv6-requirements WG document since i=
etf104.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also fr=
om this thread before, and from the recent BIER sessions, BIER'es have show=
n enthusiasm on BIER IPv6:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">a) ipv6=
 tunnel between non-adjacent BFRs
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">b) situ=
ations even between adjacent BFRs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also as=
 the stated by Toerless in inetf104: We need to wait for the result in SRv6=
 arch and encap work as they consider 8200 requirements during review. It a=
pplicable to hear as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I think=
 it is more clear now, since the SRv6 SRH had LC, the SRv6 Network Programm=
ing had adopted, the SRv6-via-ISIS had adopted, and many SRv6 deployments o=
r implementations or ongoing implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Request=
 the WG to initiate the discussions/questions/comparisons on the following =
BIERv6 documents:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements/<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation/<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension/<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain/<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhang-bier-bierin6/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I guess=
 you have many comments/suggestions/questions/comparisons. Do you ?&nbsp; T=
here had been 2* 40 minutes talk at Bankok and Prague BIER sessions!<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Appreci=
ate very much for your comments/suggestions/questions/comparisons!<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Appreci=
ate very much for the guidance from Chairs and the AD!<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jingron=
g<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 16:02:16 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/_JrrgSB3coe76620OkkRdOAMdPQ>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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2.1.  IPv6 Options Considerations



   RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers.  Currently

   there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination

   options header, which can carry a variable number of options.  These

   extension headers are inserted by the source node.



   For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination

   options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the

   BIERin6 packet.  In this case IPv6 header, Next Header field should

   be set to TBD.  Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with

   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next

   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should

   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the

   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for

   BIERin6').

[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to judg=
e if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an incoming pac=
ket(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you have to walk the whol=
e extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the above =
=93discard=94 action. Right?




prz> topic for discussion. The whole v6 options consideration is basically =
a first stab.


   This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6

   encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination

   options be present in a BIERin6 packet.

[XJR Q7]: What does =93disjoint BIER router=94 mean?


prz> non-adjacent, good catch







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<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
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<br>
<div style=3D"" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"x_WordSection1">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">2.1.&nbsp; IPv6 Options Considerations</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers.=
&nbsp; Currently</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and=
 Destination</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options header, which can carry a variable number of op=
tions.&nbsp; These</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; extension headers are inserted by the source node.</spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or=
 Destination</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BF=
IR on the</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6 packet.&nbsp; In this case IPv6 header, Next He=
ader field should&nbsp;
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;be set to TBD.&nbsp; Any IPv6 packet arriving on B=
FRs and BFERs, with&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;multiple extension header where the last extension=
 header has a Next</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node=
 should</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the sourc=
e of the</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invali=
d options for</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6').</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"">[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get th=
e last NH to judge if this packet need to be discard, right? For example fo=
r an incoming packet(ipv6hdr&#43;RoutingHeader&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&=
gt;), you have to walk the whole extension header
 chain until you know the last NH, to execute the above =93discard=94 actio=
n. Right?</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;">
<b><span style=3D""><br>
</span></b></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;">
<b><span style=3D"">prz&gt; topic for discussion. The whole v6 options cons=
ideration is basically a first stab.
<br>
</span></b></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D""><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers usin=
g IPv6</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop =
or Destination</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;text-=
align:left; text-autospace:none" align=3D"left">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color=
:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options be present in a BIERin6 packet.&nbsp;
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"">[XJR Q7]: What does =93disjoint BIER router=94 mean?</span=
></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;">
<b><span style=3D""><br>
</span></b></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;">
<b><span style=3D"">prz&gt; non-adjacent, good catch <br>
</span></b></p>
<b></b>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;">
<b><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></b></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: jus=
tify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 11:19:43 +0000
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Hi Tony,

Exactly, the whole v6 extension headers(EH) and the v6 options consideratio=
n is basically a first stab!

Once a judgement is based on the "Upper-layer Protocol", the last next head=
er of a chain, then a walk through the chain is unavoidable, to "dig out" t=
he right format that need to be processed in fast-path.

The difficulty with a "regular" IPv6 DA is that, normal things like TCP/UDP=
/ICMPv6 packet must be handled without much impact on it.

Use a "XXX specific IPv6 DA" is not only the SRv6-NetworkProgramming concep=
t, but also the ISO NSAP address as I learned from a book and found in the =
WIKI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAP_address:

The NSEL (Network-Selector) is a field in the NSAP address that identifies =
the network layer<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_layer> service to w=
hich a packet should be sent.

BIER forwarding seems match very much a "network layer service" in my opini=
on, and the "AB37" in "2019::AB37" is very similar to a NSEL too.

Thanks
Jingrong


From: Antoni Przygienda [mailto:prz@juniper.net]
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:02 AM
To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@=
huawei.com>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>



2.1.  IPv6 Options Considerations



   RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers.  Currently

   there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination

   options header, which can carry a variable number of options.  These

   extension headers are inserted by the source node.



   For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination

   options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the

   BIERin6 packet.  In this case IPv6 header, Next Header field should

   be set to TBD.  Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with

   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next

   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should

   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the

   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for

   BIERin6').

[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to judg=
e if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an incoming pac=
ket(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you have to walk the whol=
e extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the above "=
discard" action. Right?





prz> topic for discussion. The whole v6 options consideration is basically =
a first stab.



   This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6

   encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination

   options be present in a BIERin6 packet.

[XJR Q7]: What does "disjoint BIER router" mean?



prz> non-adjacent, good catch







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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Tony,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Exactly, the whole v6 =
extension headers(EH) and the v6 options consideration is basically a first=
 stab!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Once a judgement is ba=
sed on the &#8220;Upper-layer Protocol&#8221;, the last next header of a ch=
ain, then a walk through the chain is unavoidable, to &#8220;dig out&#8221;
 the right format that need to be processed in fast-path.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The difficulty with a =
&#8220;regular&#8221; IPv6 DA is that, normal things like TCP/UDP/ICMPv6 pa=
cket must be handled without much impact on it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Use a &#8220;XXX speci=
fic IPv6 DA&#8221; is not only the SRv6-NetworkProgramming concept, but als=
o the ISO NSAP address as I learned from a book and found in
 the WIKI </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/w=
iki/NSAP_address">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAP_address</a>:</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">The&nbs=
p;<b>NSEL</b>&nbsp;(Network-Selector) is a field in the NSAP address that i=
dentifies the&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://en.wikipe=
dia.org/wiki/Network_layer" title=3D"Network layer"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#0B0080;background:=
white">network
 layer</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">&nbsp;=
service to which a packet should be sent.&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:=
#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">BIER forwarding seems =
match very much a &#8220;network layer service&#8221; in my opinion, and th=
e &#8220;AB37&#8221; in &#8220;2019::AB37&#8221; is very similar to a NSEL =
too.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Jingrong<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Antoni Przygienda [mailto:prz@juniper.net]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 12:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang@juniper.net&gt;; Xiejingrong =
&lt;xiejingrong@huawei.com&gt;; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG =
&lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">2=
.1.&nbsp; IPv6 Options Considerations</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers.&nbsp; C=
urrently</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destina=
tion</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; options header, which can carry a variable number of options.&n=
bsp; These</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; extension headers are inserted by the source node.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sa=
ns-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destina=
tion</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on th=
e</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6 packet.&nbsp; In this case IPv6 header, Next Header fie=
ld should&nbsp;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;be set to TBD.&nbsp; Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and =
BFERs, with&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;multiple extension header where the last extension header =
has a Next</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid option=
s for</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6').</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideo=
graph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and =
get the last NH to judge if this packet need to be
 discard, right? For example for an incoming packet(ipv6hdr&#43;RoutingHead=
er&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;), you have to walk the whole extension h=
eader chain until you know the last NH, to execute the above &#8220;discard=
&#8221; action. Right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideo=
graph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideo=
graph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideo=
graph"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">prz&gt; topic for discussion. The whole v6 option=
s consideration is basically a first stab.
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideo=
graph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6</=
span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Desti=
nation</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; options be present in a BIERin6 packet.&nbsp;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideo=
graph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">[XJR Q7]: What does &#8220;disjoint BIER router&#822=
1; mean?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideo=
graph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideo=
graph"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">prz&gt; non-adjacent, good catch
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideo=
graph"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideo=
graph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideo=
graph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>,  "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
Thread-Index: AdU2IrLV6PANcPQ8TJ2wzjJsYLxNqQAHa6GgAHBJYdsAJ5LssAAG4U8g
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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:27:18 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/G7FEnyd1MiVS2PVBzmSXMvWLlWA>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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I don't have a good understanding about the writing in the latest email bel=
ow, but for the following original comment that led to it:

>       [XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH=
 to judge if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an inco=
ming packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you have to walk =
the whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the=
 above "discard" action. Right?

What is the problem with that? This document is saying that for BIER packet=
s, the only header that is expected is the TBD (for BIER) and otherwise you=
 drop it. Normally, you would not have the (ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHd=
r<nh!=3DTBD>) situation.

If the concern is that someone could maliciously inject that kind of packet=
s for the purpose of slowing down a targeted BFR, then any of the following=
 situation in RFC8200, independent of BIER, will have the same effect:

   If, as a result of processing a header, the destination node is
   required to proceed to the next header but the Next Header value in
   the current header is unrecognized by the node, it should discard the
   packet and send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of
   the packet, with an ICMP Code value of 1 ("unrecognized Next Header
   type encountered") and the ICMP Pointer field containing the offset
   of the unrecognized value within the original packet.  The same
   action should be taken if a node encounters a Next Header value of
   zero in any header other than an IPv6 header.

Jeffrey


From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 7:20 AM
To: Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@ju=
niper.net>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>

Hi Tony,

Exactly, the whole v6 extension headers(EH) and the v6 options consideratio=
n is basically a first stab!

Once a judgement is based on the "Upper-layer Protocol", the last next head=
er of a chain, then a walk through the chain is unavoidable, to "dig out" t=
he right format that need to be processed in fast-path.

The difficulty with a "regular" IPv6 DA is that, normal things like TCP/UDP=
/ICMPv6 packet must be handled without much impact on it.

Use a "XXX specific IPv6 DA" is not only the SRv6-NetworkProgramming concep=
t, but also the ISO NSAP address as I learned from a book and found in the =
WIKI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAP_address<https://urldefense.proofpoi=
nt.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_NSAP-5Faddress&d=3DDwMFAg=
&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj=
_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZGNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&s=3DR=
h1tyYzDzhRq7ymA_JEJduNT94j_xiGhiQ-QgbwQ9L4&e=3D>:

The NSEL (Network-Selector) is a field in the NSAP address that identifies =
the network layer<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en=
.wikipedia.org_wiki_Network-5Flayer&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBX=
eMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&m=3DhKl=
g11Qzoo3dyO4pZGNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&s=3DCseHsrq8z_Cjx0ZsXzuYT3X9_3CMLv=
4SkB7Cs2nRPu0&e=3D> service to which a packet should be sent.

BIER forwarding seems match very much a "network layer service" in my opini=
on, and the "AB37" in "2019::AB37" is very similar to a NSEL too.

Thanks
Jingrong


From: Antoni Przygienda [mailto:prz@juniper.net]
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:02 AM
To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net<mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>=
; Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com<mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com>>; draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org<mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>; BI=
ER WG <bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>


2.1.  IPv6 Options Considerations

   RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers.  Currently
   there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination
   options header, which can carry a variable number of options.  These
   extension headers are inserted by the source node.

   For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
   options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the
   BIERin6 packet.  In this case IPv6 header, Next Header field should
   be set to TBD.  Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with
   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next
   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should
   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the
   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for
   BIERin6').
[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to judg=
e if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an incoming pac=
ket(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you have to walk the whol=
e extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the above "=
discard" action. Right?


prz> topic for discussion. The whole v6 options consideration is basically =
a first stab.

   This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6
   encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
   options be present in a BIERin6 packet.
[XJR Q7]: What does "disjoint BIER router" mean?

prz> non-adjacent, good catch




Juniper Business Use Only


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<body>
<font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">
<div>I don&#8217;t have a good understanding about the writing in the lates=
t email below, but for the following original comment that led to it:</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<ul style=3D"text-align:left;margin:0;padding-left:36pt;">
<font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">
<li>[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to =
judge if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an incoming=
 packet(ipv6hdr&#43;RoutingHeader&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;), you hav=
e to walk the whole extension header chain until
you know the last NH, to execute the above &#8220;discard&#8221; action. Ri=
ght?</li></span></font>
</ul>
<div style=3D"text-align:left;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><=
span style=3D"font-size:12pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">What is the problem=
 with that? This document is saying that for BIER packets, the only header =
that is expected is the TBD (for BIER) and otherwise you drop it. Normally,=
 you would not have the (ipv6hdr&#43;RoutingHeader&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3D=
TBD&gt;)
situation.</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">&nbsp;</span></font=
></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">If the concern is t=
hat someone could maliciously inject that kind of packets for the purpose o=
f slowing down a targeted BFR, then any of the following situation in RFC82=
00, independent of BIER, will have the
same effect:</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">&nbsp;</span></font=
></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; If, as a result of processing a header, the destination node i=
s</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; required to proceed to the next header but the Next Header val=
ue in</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; the current header is unrecognized by the node, it should disc=
ard the</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; packet and send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the sourc=
e of</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; the packet, with an ICMP Code value of 1 (&quot;unrecognized N=
ext Header</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; type encountered&quot;) and the ICMP Pointer field containing =
the offset</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; of the unrecognized value within the original packet.&nbsp; Th=
e same</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; action should be taken if a node encounters a Next Header valu=
e of</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; zero in any header other than an IPv6 header.</span></font></d=
iv>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size:12p=
t;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">Jeffrey</span></fon=
t></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size:12p=
t;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><b>From:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;xiejingrong@huawei.com&gt; <br>

<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 7:20 AM<br>

<b>To:</b> Antoni Przygienda &lt;prz@juniper.net&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zha=
ng &lt;zzhang@juniper.net&gt;; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG &=
lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;<br>

<b>Subject:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size:12p=
t;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">H=
i Tony,</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">&=
nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">E=
xactly, the whole v6 extension headers(EH) and the v6 options consideration=
 is basically a first stab!</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">&=
nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">O=
nce a judgement is based on the &#8220;Upper-layer Protocol&#8221;, the las=
t next header of a chain, then a walk through the chain is unavoidable, to =
&#8220;dig out&#8221; the right format that need to be processed
in fast-path.</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">&=
nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">T=
he difficulty with a &#8220;regular&#8221; IPv6 DA is that, normal things l=
ike TCP/UDP/ICMPv6 packet must be handled without much impact on it.</span>=
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">&=
nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">U=
se a &#8220;XXX specific IPv6 DA&#8221; is not only the SRv6-NetworkProgram=
ming concept, but also the ISO NSAP address as I learned from a book and fo=
und in the WIKI <a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhtt=
ps-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_NSAP-5Faddress&amp;d=3DDwMFAg&amp;c=3DHAkYuh63=
rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&amp;r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZq=
drR2IDAzeZqE&amp;m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZGNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&amp;s=3DRh=
1tyYzDzhRq7ymA_JEJduNT94j_xiGhiQ-QgbwQ9L4&amp;e=3D"><font face=3D"Times New=
 Roman" size=3D"3" color=3D"#0563C1"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><u>htt=
ps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAP_address</u></span></font></a><font face=3D"=
Times New Roman" size=3D"3" color=3D"black"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"=
>:</span></font></span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3" color=3D"#1F497D"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#222222"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.5pt;">The&nbsp;<b>NSEL</b>&nbsp;(Network-Selector) is a field in th=
e NSAP address that identifies the&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.proof=
point.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Network-5Flayer&amp;d=
=3DDwMFAg&amp;c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&amp;r=3Df7wsL=
GcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&amp;m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZGNb6wtU4M6K=
b1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&amp;s=3DCseHsrq8z_Cjx0ZsXzuYT3X9_3CMLv4SkB7Cs2nRPu0&amp;e=
=3D"><font color=3D"#0B0080"><u>network
layer</u></font></a>&nbsp;service to which a packet should be sent.&nbsp;</=
span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3" color=3D"#1F497D"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">B=
IER forwarding seems match very much a &#8220;network layer service&#8221; =
in my opinion, and the &#8220;AB37&#8221; in &#8220;2019::AB37&#8221; is ve=
ry similar to a NSEL too. </span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">&=
nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">T=
hanks</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">J=
ingrong</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">&=
nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">&=
nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><b>From:</b> Antoni Przygienda [<a href=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net"><fo=
nt color=3D"#0563C1"><u>mailto:prz@juniper.net</u></font></a>]
<br>

<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 12:02 AM<br>

<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
"><font color=3D"#0563C1"><u>zzhang@juniper.net</u></font></a>&gt;; Xiejing=
rong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com"><font color=3D"#0563C1">=
<u>xiejingrong@huawei.com</u></font></a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang=
-bier-bierin6@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0563C1"><u>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
@ietf.org</u></font></a>;
BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0563C1"><u>bie=
r@ietf.org</u></font></a>&gt;<br>

<b>Subject:</b> Re: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size:12p=
t;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size:12p=
t;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">2.1.&nbsp; IPv6 Options Cons=
iderations</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; RFC 8200 sectio=
n 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers.&nbsp; Currently</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; there are two d=
efined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options header,=
 which can carry a variable number of options.&nbsp; These</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; extension heade=
rs are inserted by the source node.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; For directly co=
nnected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options are irr=
elevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6 packet.=
&nbsp; In this case IPv6 header, Next Header field should&nbsp; </font></di=
v>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;be set to =
TBD.&nbsp; Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; </font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;multiple e=
xtension header where the last extension header has a Next</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; Header field se=
t to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; transmit an ICM=
P Parameter Problem message to the source of the</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; packet (BFIR) w=
ith an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6').</fon=
t></div>
<div style=3D"text-align:left;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;">[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH=
 to judge if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an inco=
ming packet(ipv6hdr&#43;RoutingHeader&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;),
you have to walk the whole extension header chain until you know the last N=
H, to execute the above &#8220;discard&#8221; action. Right?</span></font><=
/div>
<div style=3D"text-align:left;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"text-align:left;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"text-align:left;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;"><b>prz&gt; topic for discussion. The whole v6 options consideration=
 is basically a first stab. </b></span></font></div>
<div style=3D"text-align:left;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><=
span style=3D"font-size:12pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; This also indic=
ates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation, =
there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options be pres=
ent in a BIERin6 packet.&nbsp; </font></div>
<div style=3D"text-align:left;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;">[XJR Q7]: What does &#8220;disjoint BIER router&#8221; mean?</span>=
</font></div>
<div style=3D"text-align:left;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"text-align:left;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;"><b>prz&gt; non-adjacent, good catch </b></span></font></div>
<div style=3D"text-align:left;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;"><b>&nbsp;</b></span></font></div>
<div style=3D"text-align:left;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"text-align:left;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"text-align:center;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"=
><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><br>

<a name=3D"_msipfooter30b3d538"></a><font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"1"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:7pt;">Juniper Business Use Only</span></font></span></f=
ont></div>
<div style=3D"text-align:center;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"=
><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
</span></font>
</body>
</html>

--_000_DM5PR05MB3548F4EFF3EFC0CCDA3FDE73D4F20DM5PR05MB3548namp_--


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Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com
From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 08:41:00 -0700
Message-ID: <CABFReBodixF2ULaaXnBEKnYUptKzi3vK=K8Q5y+tYAvLMe+rLg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
Cc: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org>,  "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org>,  "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org>,  "draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org" <draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/-cpi3gXqea0jX33kRQrL8W7gD4M>
Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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--0000000000006b930c058d7dbd49
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Jingrong,

This is a significant amount of IPv6 content to present when we're still
discussing the new use-cases draft from last meeting. Let's get the
use-cases draft on the agenda with adequate discussion time. If interest
and time allow, we can dig into each of these as applicable. If we have
enough time we can hit them all, I just want to focus the discussion from
where we left off in Prague.

Any opinions from the WG?

Shep

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 6:32 PM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote:

> We=E2=80=99d like to request 35-40 minutes for the presentation of the fo=
llowing
> BIERv6 drafts.  I will be the speaker (may have some adjustment before th=
e
> session).
>
>
>
> BIERv6 Encapsulation  //  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02, 15min
>
> BIERv6 via IS-IS  //  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00  10min
>
> MVPN using BIERv6  //  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01            5min
>
> Inter-domain Multicast Deployment using BIERv6  //
> draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00  10min
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Jingrong on behalf of the authors
>
>
>
> *From:* BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 09, 2019 3:37 AM
> *To:* BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
>
>
>
> Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
> time to this thread.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shep
>
> (chairs)
>

--0000000000006b930c058d7dbd49
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Jingrong,<div><br></div><div>This is a significant amount =
of IPv6 content to present when we&#39;re still discussing the new use-case=
s draft from last meeting. Let&#39;s get the use-cases draft on the agenda =
with adequate discussion time. If interest and time allow, we can dig into =
each of these as applicable. If we have enough time we can hit them all, I =
just want to focus the discussion from where we left off in Prague.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Any opinions from the WG?</div><div><br></div><div>Shep</=
div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_at=
tr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 6:32 PM Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejin=
grong@huawei.com">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width=
:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex">





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_7783596806819254101WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">We=E2=80=99d like to reques=
t 35-40 minutes for the presentation of the following BIERv6 drafts.=C2=A0 =
I will be the speaker (may have some adjustment before the
 session).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:10.5pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">BIERv6 Encapsulation=C2=A0 //=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02,=
 15min=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:10.5pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">BIERv6 via IS-IS=C2=A0 //=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00 =C2=
=A010min=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:10.5pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">MVPN using BIERv6=C2=A0 //=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 5min=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:10.5pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Inter-domain Multicast Deployment using BIERv6 =C2=A0//=C2=A0 draft-geng-=
bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00=C2=A0 10min
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Jingrong on behalf of the a=
uthors<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> BIER [mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Shepherd<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 09, 2019 3:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">b=
ier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please send agenda items with t=
itle, draft, speaker name, and requested time to this thread.<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shep<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">(chairs)<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--0000000000006b930c058d7dbd49--


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Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com
From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 08:43:09 -0700
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To: Stig Venaas <stig@venaas.com>
Cc: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/0vrKw6UTpKfQGMbRSOZSOm7msKY>
Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Right. And it's in my queue. I chose to leak out 2 at a time to not
overwhelm the WG. The results were the same - very little responders.. So
we're going to address this in the WG. We nee engagement, and we need doc
Shepherds to step up ASAP.

Thanks,
Shep
(Chairs)

On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 10:14 AM Stig Venaas <stig@venaas.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I would like 10 minutes for draft-ietf-bier-mld-02.txt. Presenter is
> myself.
>
> My opinion previously was that this was ready for WGLC, and I think
> that was the agreement the last meeting. However, I would like to
> discuss one issue and potential change to the draft.
>
> Thanks,
> Stig
>
> On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 7:44 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> wrote:
> >
> > Adding the WG, Sorry hit reply only
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Hooman
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> > Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:54 PM
> > To: gjshep@gmail.com
> > Subject: RE: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello
> >
> >
> >
> > 10 min for mldp signaling over bier new version of it with tLDP.
> >
> >
> >
> > Also where are we with the last call on bier-pim-signaling? I have not
> got any more comments and did not see a last call on it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Hooman
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd
> > Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:37 PM
> > To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> > Subject: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
> >
> >
> >
> > Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
> time to this thread.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Shep
> >
> > (chairs)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BIER mailing list
> > BIER@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Right. And it&#39;s in my queue. I chose to leak out 2 at =
a time to not overwhelm the WG. The results were the same - very little res=
ponders.. So we&#39;re going to address this in the WG. We nee engagement, =
and we need doc Shepherds to step up ASAP.<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div>=
<div>Shep</div><div>(Chairs)</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 10:14 AM Stig Ven=
aas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stig@venaas.com">stig@venaas.com</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi<br>
<br>
I would like 10 minutes for draft-ietf-bier-mld-02.txt. Presenter is myself=
.<br>
<br>
My opinion previously was that this was ready for WGLC, and I think<br>
that was the agreement the last meeting. However, I would like to<br>
discuss one issue and potential change to the draft.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Stig<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 7:44 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">hooman.bi=
dgoli@nokia.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Adding the WG, Sorry hit reply only<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hooman<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:54 PM<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail=
.com</a><br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hello<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 10 min for mldp signaling over bier new version of it with tLDP.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also where are we with the last call on bier-pim-signaling? I have not=
 got any more comments and did not see a last call on it.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hooman<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: BIER &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:37 PM<br>
&gt; To: BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bie=
r@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requeste=
d time to this thread.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Shep<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (chairs)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; BIER mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BIER@ietf.org</a><b=
r>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 08:51:13 -0700
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
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This is a draft agenda from what's been requested so far. This will be
posted today (email harassment has begun..), and I'll update with
corrections as they come. This is in no particular order. I will re-arrange
as necessary. Please confirm your request is there and send any updates
ASAP. We need someone to present the IPV6 requirements before we dive into
any proposed solutions draft.


WG Status Update 15mins, chairs

draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang

draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli

draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen

draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky

draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert

draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas

draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, ???


Thanks,

Shep

(chairs)

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 10:15 AM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:

> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption
> of:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling/
>
> ..as a BIER WG document.
>
> This starts a two week counter.
>
> Thanks,
> Chairs
> (Shep)
>

--000000000000f76bd7058d7de131
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><p style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:norma=
l;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,2=
6)"><span style=3D"-webkit-font-kerning: none;">This is a draft agenda from=
 what&#39;s been requested so far. This will be posted today (email harassm=
ent has begun..), and I&#39;ll update with corrections as they come. This i=
s in no particular order. I will re-arrange as necessary. Please confirm yo=
ur request is there and send any updates ASAP. We need someone to present t=
he IPV6 requirements before we dive into any proposed solutions draft.</spa=
n></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height=
:normal;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><span style=3D"-webkit-f=
ont-kerning: none;"><br></span></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:norm=
al;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,=
26)"><span style=3D"-webkit-font-kerning: none;">WG Status Update 15mins, c=
hairs</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:norma=
l;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><span style=3D"-webkit-font-ke=
rning: none;">draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</span>=
</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:norma=
l;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><span style=3D"-webkit-font-ke=
rning: none;">draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgol=
i</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:14.7px;line-height:nor=
mal;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><span style=3D"-webkit-font-=
kerning: none;">draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk T=
rossen</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:norma=
l;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><span style=3D"-webkit-font-ke=
rning: none;">draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:norma=
l;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><span style=3D"-webkit-font-ke=
rning: none;">draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:norma=
l;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><span style=3D"-webkit-font-ke=
rning: none;">draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:norma=
l;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><span style=3D"-webkit-font-ke=
rning: none;">draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, ???</span></p><p style=3D"=
margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-famil=
y:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><span style=3D"-webkit-font-kerning: none;=
"><br></span></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;=
line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><span style=
=3D"-webkit-font-kerning: none;">Thanks,</span></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;f=
ont-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica;=
color:rgb(26,26,26)"><span style=3D"-webkit-font-kerning: none;">Shep</span=
></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:=
normal;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><span style=3D"-webkit-fo=
nt-kerning: none;">(chairs)</span></p></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 10:15 A=
M Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com">gjshep@gmail.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/agai=
nst adoption of:<div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>=
..as a BIER WG document.</div><div><br></div><div>This starts a two week co=
unter.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Chairs</div><div>(Shep)</=
div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

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Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com
From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 10:49:56 -0700
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To: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
Cc: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
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Thanks Hooman! I'll correct.



On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 10:41 AM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <
hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> wrote:

> Hi Chairs
>
>
>
> Not sure if the title of this email corresponds to the content. This seems
> to be the BIER agenda maybe we want to change the title?
>
>
>
> There is on need for call on adoption of draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling as draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier
> is replacing it.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Hooman
>
>
>
> *From:* BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd
> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 11:51 AM
> *To:* BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
>
>
>
> This is a draft agenda from what's been requested so far. This will be
> posted today (email harassment has begun..), and I'll update with
> corrections as they come. This is in no particular order. I will re-arrange
> as necessary. Please confirm your request is there and send any updates
> ASAP. We need someone to present the IPV6 requirements before we dive into
> any proposed solutions draft.
>
>
>
> WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
>
> draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
>
> draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
>
> draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
>
> draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
>
> draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
>
> draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
>
> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, ???
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shep
>
> (chairs)
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 10:15 AM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption
> of:
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling/
>
>
>
> ...as a BIER WG document.
>
>
>
> This starts a two week counter.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chairs
>
> (Shep)
>
>

--00000000000090200c058d7f8a03
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks Hooman! I&#39;ll correct.<div><br></div><div><br></=
div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_at=
tr">On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 10:41 AM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com">hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-colo=
r:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-CA">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_555692910655519710WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hi Chairs<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Not sure if the title of this email correspond=
s to the content. This seems to be the BIER agenda maybe we want to change =
the title?
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>There is on need for call on adoption of draft=
-hj-bier-ldp-signaling as
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(26,26,26)">draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier is replacing it.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><br>
Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hooman<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> BIER &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Shepherd<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 11:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">b=
ier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fam=
ily:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">This is a draft agenda from w=
hat&#39;s been requested so far. This will be posted today (email harassmen=
t has begun..), and I&#39;ll update with
 corrections as they come. This is in no particular order. I will re-arrang=
e as necessary. Please confirm your request is there and send any updates A=
SAP. We need someone to present the IPV6 requirements before we dive into a=
ny proposed solutions draft.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">WG Status=
 Update 15mins, chairs<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">draft-zzh=
ang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">draft-hb-=
bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">draft-ietf-bier-multicas=
t-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">draft-iet=
f-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">draft-iet=
f-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">draft-iet=
f-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">draft-iet=
f-bier-ipv6-requirements, ???<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">Thanks,<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">Shep<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">(chairs)<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 10:15 AM Greg Shepherd &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.=
8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please read and reply to this thread with your vote =
for/against adoption of:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hj=
-bier-mldp-signaling/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">...as a BIER WG document.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This starts a two week counter.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Chairs<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">(Shep)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--00000000000090200c058d7f8a03--


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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
CC: "'draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org'" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org>,  "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org>, "draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org" <draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org>, "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 23:33:51 +0000
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--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8DD87Ankgeml514mbxchi_
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<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
<style>=0A=
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<body fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">Hi Jeffrey,
<div>Please see my comments inline below<br>
<div style=3D"font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; color: rgb(0, 0, 0)=
;">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"font-size: 16px;">
<div id=3D"divRpF634748" style=3D"font-size: 16px; direction: ltr;"><font f=
ace=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang [zzhang@juniper.net]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2019=C4=EA7=D4=C212=C8=D5 22:27<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Xiejingrong; Antoni Przygienda; draft-zhang-bier=
-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-0=
3&gt;<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 16px;"></div>
<div style=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" style=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">I don=A1=AFt have a good understanding abou=
t the writing in the latest email below, but for the following original com=
ment that led to it:</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">&nbsp;</div>
<ul style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left; margin: 0px; padding-left: =
36pt;">
<font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt"></span></font>
<li><font size=3D"2">[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and ge=
t the last NH to judge if this packet need to be discard, right? For exampl=
e for an incoming packet(ipv6hdr&#43;RoutingHeader&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3D=
TBD&gt;), you have to walk the whole extension header
 chain until you know the last NH, to execute the above =A1=B0discard=A1=B1=
 action. Right?</font>
</li></ul>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><font face=3D"Times New R=
oman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt">What is the problem with that? This document is saying that for BIER=
 packets, the only header that is expected is the TBD (for BIER) and otherw=
ise you drop it. Normally, you would not
 have the (ipv6hdr&#43;RoutingHeader&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;) situa=
tion.</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt">&nbsp;[XJR]&nbsp; This document also said the following.&nbsp;</span=
></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">
<div align=3D"left" style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: medium; text-align: justify; margin: 0px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5=
pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2" color=3D"navy"><span lang=3D"en-=
US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">&nbsp; &nbsp;Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFR=
s and BFERs, with&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font></span></font>=
</div>
<div align=3D"left" style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: medium; text-align: justify; margin: 0px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5=
pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2" color=3D"navy"><span lang=3D"en-=
US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;multiple extension header =
where the last extension header has a Next</span></font></span></font></div=
>
<div align=3D"left" style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: medium; text-align: justify; margin: 0px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5=
pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2" color=3D"navy"><span lang=3D"en-=
US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Header field set to TBD, SHOULD=
 be discard and the node should</span></font></span></font></div>
<div align=3D"left" style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: medium; text-align: justify; margin: 0px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5=
pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2" color=3D"navy"><span lang=3D"en-=
US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">&nbsp;&nbsp; transmit an ICMP Parameter Prob=
lem message to the source of the</span></font></span></font></div>
<div align=3D"left" style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: medium; text-align: justify; margin: 0px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5=
pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2" color=3D"navy"><span lang=3D"en-=
US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">&nbsp;&nbsp; packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code=
 value of TBD10 ('invalid options for</span></font></span></font></div>
<div align=3D"left" style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: medium; text-align: justify; margin: 0px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5=
pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2" color=3D"navy"><span lang=3D"en-=
US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6').</span></font></span>=
</font></div>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt">If the concern is that someone could maliciously inject that kind of=
 packets for the purpose of slowing down a targeted BFR, then any of the fo=
llowing situation in RFC8200, independent
 of BIER, will have the same effect:</span></font></div>
<div style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">[XJR] Right. There is also=
 concern of injection of packets to slow down a targeted BFR. That may not =
the below case listed in RFC8200.</span></div>
<div style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">Also, there are concerns o=
f flexibility as my comments before.</span></div>
<div style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">For example:</span></div>
<div style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">BIER may want to process a=
 packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_N=
H=3DBIER.</span></div>
<div style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">BIER may want to process a=
 packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER or IPv6 NH=3DRH and RH_NH=3DBIER in fast-path, =
and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.</span></div>
<div style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">a new feature, let's say R=
EIB may have the similar requirements:</span></div>
<div style=3D"">
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">REIB may want to process a packet wit=
h IPv6 NH=3DREIB in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.</=
span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">REIB may want to process a packet wit=
h IPv6 NH=3DREIB or IPv6 NH=3DRH and RH_NH=3DREIB in fast-path, and drop IP=
v6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.</span></div>
</div>
<div style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">then I guess a lot of &quo=
t;walking through the EH chain&quot; have to be executed like [XJR Q8].</sp=
an></div>
<div style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">Thanks,</span></div>
<div style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">Jingrong</span></div>
<div style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; If, as a result of processing a head=
er, the destination node is</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; required to proceed to the next head=
er but the Next Header value in</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; the current header is unrecognized b=
y the node, it should discard the</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; packet and send an ICMP Parameter Pr=
oblem message to the source of</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; the packet, with an ICMP Code value =
of 1 (&quot;unrecognized Next Header</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; type encountered&quot;) and the ICMP=
 Pointer field containing the offset</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; of the unrecognized value within the=
 original packet.&nbsp; The same</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; action should be taken if a node enc=
ounters a Next Header value of</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; zero in any header other than an IPv=
6 header.</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><=
span style=3D"font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt">Jeffrey</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><=
span style=3D"font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a></span>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;xiejingrong@hu=
awei.com&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 7:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antoni Przygienda &lt;prz@juniper.net&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zha=
ng &lt;zzhang@juniper.net&gt;; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG &=
lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><=
span style=3D"font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Hi Tony,</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Exactly, the whole v6 extension headers(EH) and th=
e v6 options consideration is basically a first stab!</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Once a judgement is based on the =A1=B0Upper-layer=
 Protocol=A1=B1, the last next header of a chain, then a walk through the c=
hain is unavoidable, to =A1=B0dig out=A1=B1 the right format
 that need to be processed in fast-path.</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">The difficulty with a =A1=B0regular=A1=B1 IPv6 DA =
is that, normal things like TCP/UDP/ICMPv6 packet must be handled without m=
uch impact on it.</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Use a =A1=B0XXX specific IPv6 DA=A1=B1 is not only=
 the SRv6-NetworkProgramming concept, but also the ISO NSAP address as I le=
arned from a book and found in the WIKI
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipe=
dia.org_wiki_NSAP-5Faddress&amp;d=3DDwMFAg&amp;c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBX=
eMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&amp;r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&amp=
;m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZGNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&amp;s=3DRh1tyYzDzhRq7ymA_J=
EJduNT94j_xiGhiQ-QgbwQ9L4&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noref=
errer">
<font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3" color=3D"#0563C1"><span style=3D"=
font-size:12pt"><u>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAP_address</u></span></f=
ont></a><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3" color=3D"black"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:12pt">:</span></font></span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3" c=
olor=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#2=
22222"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">The&nbsp;<b>NSEL</b>&nbsp;(Network-=
Selector) is a field in the NSAP address that identifies the&nbsp;<a href=
=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipedia.org=
_wiki_Network-5Flayer&amp;d=3DDwMFAg&amp;c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-nd=
b3voDTXcWzoCI&amp;r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&amp;m=3Dh=
Klg11Qzoo3dyO4pZGNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&amp;s=3DCseHsrq8z_Cjx0ZsXzuYT3X9=
_3CMLv4SkB7Cs2nRPu0&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer"=
><font color=3D"#0B0080"><u>network
 layer</u></font></a>&nbsp;service to which a packet should be sent.&nbsp;<=
/span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3" c=
olor=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">BIER forwarding seems match very much a =A1=B0netw=
ork layer service=A1=B1 in my opinion, and the =A1=B0AB37=A1=B1 in =A1=B020=
19::AB37=A1=B1 is very similar to a NSEL too.
</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Thanks</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Jingrong</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> Antoni Przygienda [<a href=3D"=
mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer"><font=
 color=3D"#0563C1"><u>mailto:prz@juniper.net</u></font></a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 12:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer"><font color=3D"#0563C1"><u>=
zzhang@juniper.net</u></font></a>&gt;; Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xi=
ejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer"><font c=
olor=3D"#0563C1"><u>xiejingrong@huawei.com</u></font></a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer">
<font color=3D"#0563C1"><u>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</u></font></a>=
; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noo=
pener noreferrer"><font color=3D"#0563C1"><u>bier@ietf.org</u></font></a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><=
span style=3D"font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><=
span style=3D"font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">2=
.1.&nbsp; IPv6 Options Considerations</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers.&nbsp; C=
urrently</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destina=
tion</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; options header, which can carry a variable number of options.&n=
bsp; These</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; extension headers are inserted by the source node.</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destina=
tion</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on th=
e</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6 packet.&nbsp; In this case IPv6 header, Next Header fie=
ld should&nbsp;
</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;be set to TBD.&nbsp; Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and =
BFERs, with&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;multiple extension header where the last extension header =
has a Next</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should<=
/font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the=
</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid option=
s for</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6').</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><font size=3D"2"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain an=
d get the last NH to judge if this packet need to be discard, right? For ex=
ample for an incoming packet(ipv6hdr&#43;RoutingHeader&#43;DestOptHdr&lt;nh=
!=3DTBD&gt;),
 you have to walk the whole extension header chain until you know the last =
NH, to execute the above =A1=B0discard=A1=B1 action. Right?</span></font></=
div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><font size=3D"2"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><font size=3D"2"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><font size=3D"2"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt"><b>prz&gt; topic for discussion. The whole v6 opti=
ons consideration is basically a first stab.
</b></span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><font face=3D"Times New R=
oman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6</=
font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Desti=
nation</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><font face=3D"Courier New" color=3D"navy">&=
nbsp;&nbsp; options be present in a BIERin6 packet.&nbsp;
</font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><font size=3D"2"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">[XJR Q7]: What does =A1=B0disjoint BIER router=A1=
=B1 mean?</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><font size=3D"2"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><font size=3D"2"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt"><b>prz&gt; non-adjacent, good catch
</b></span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><font size=3D"2"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt"><b>&nbsp;</b></span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><font size=3D"2"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><font size=3D"2"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: center;"><font face=3D"Times New=
 Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><br>
<a name=3D"_msipfooter30b3d538"></a><font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"1"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:7pt">Juniper Business Use Only</span></font></span></fo=
nt></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt; text-align: center;"><font face=3D"Times New=
 Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span></font></div=
>
</font></div>
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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>,  "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/-kl0RFnVmD6s65FCzjTBK667oL4>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 00:09:37 +0000
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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>,  "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/-rnJwj50acozizKFx4jH-IKmAnY>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>
CC: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org>, "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org>, "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org>, "draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org" <draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 00:43:06 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
CC: "'draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org'" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org>,  "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org>, "draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org" <draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org>, "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 01:23:34 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
CC: "'draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org'" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org>,  "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org>, "draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org" <draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org>, "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 01:37:46 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/wsyCQgF-wb0X6fxXJHqKDqvkoKM>
Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
CC: "'draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org'" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org>,  "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org>, "draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org" <draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org>, "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 03:24:23 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
CC: "'draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org'" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org>,  "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org>, "draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org" <draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org>, "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 04:19:27 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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From: Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:46:38 +0530
Message-ID: <CAG9=0bJyYGhmLnm8CVk904EcouaW7VCP7KTvuciWc57NuiFDpQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>,  "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Hi Jeffrey, Jingrong, et.al

The way IPv6 header [RFC8200] is defined, i believe we *cannot avoid*
walking through & process the chain of EHs in IPv6.
At best, what we can do (which is what i believe today's CHIP's do is),

If NH=3DX -> process in fast path defined for hdr-type=3Dx
else       -> process in slow path  (or drop - bad?)

Above technique can be applied to both draft-zhang-bier-bierin6 &
draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation.

Besides above, below are some of the broader points considered for
comparison, that are discussed with Tony/Ice/Sandy/.. during the course of
& after ietf104.
Sharing it in the list and we shall continue to discuss on the pros & cons.

*1. Change of source-address at each hop*

draft-zhang-bier-bierin6:
Considering BIER as an L4 header, we are required to modify the source
address at each hop.
Loss of original source address (BFIR's SA) might impact source address
based filtering policies applied if any, breaks ICMP6 based error reporting
back to source etc
Yes, BFIR(source) can be identified from the bfir-id in BIER header.
But we may need to consider the cases where in the ICMP6 error packet needs
to be initiated by an non-BIER router based on IPv6 header alone.

draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:
RFC8200 allows us to change the content of a TLV (which is part of
extension header) without having to require changing the source-address.

*2. Presence of AH/ESP headers*

draft-zhang-bier-bierin6:
Requires re-hash(AH), re-encrypt(ESP) at each hop

draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:
Does not require hop-by-hop processing. Possible to employ E2E IPsec
protection.

*3. Fragmentation*

draft-zhang-bier-bierin6:
Requires hop-by-hop re-assembly and fragmentation ?
But IPv6 requires that only source node MUST fragment the packet &
intermediate nodes cannot fragment.
For draft-zhang-bier-bierin6, we shall consider that each hop re-originates
the packet (with self as source) and fragment afresh.
Again, this reminds us that, we cannot avoid changing the source address of
packet at each hop (point 1).

draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:
Does not require hop-by-hop fragmentation / re-assembly

*4. Network programming *
(ex: See draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn, Use FUNC part to identify the
vpn-instance instead of using MPLS style service labels)

draft-zhang-bier-bierin6:
Because the source-address is required to change at each hop, we cannot use
this technique?

draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:
Can support.

Thanks,
Senthil

On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 5:48 AM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D
40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Let me ask it this way:
>
>
>
> What=E2=80=99s the difference between the following situation:
>
>
>
>    1. <some hop-by-hop or destination option hdr, NH=3DBIER> (per
>    draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03)
>    2. <same hop-by-hop or destination option hdr, NH=3D<undefined> (per
>    RFC8200)
>
>
>
> If you have concern with #1, wouldn=E2=80=99t you have the same concern w=
ith #2?
>
>
>
> Jeffrey
>
>
>
>
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
>
> *From:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 8:10 PM
> *To:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Antoni Przygienda <
> prz@juniper.net>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <
> bier@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>
>
>
> Pls See comments inline:
>
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@jun=
iper.net>
>
> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com=
>;Antoni Przygienda <
> prz@juniper.net>;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org <
> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>;BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
>
> *=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A*2019-07-13 07:43:22
>
> *=E4=B8=BB **=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A*RE: Questions regarding
>
>
>
> Please see zzh> below.
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
>
> *From:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 7:34 PM
> *To:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Antoni Przygienda <
> prz@juniper.net>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <
> bier@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>
> Hi Jeffrey,
>
> Please see my comments inline below
> ------------------------------
>
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [zzhang@juniper.=
net]
> *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4**:* 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8812=E6=97=
=A5 22:27
> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Xiejingrong; Antoni Przygienda; draft-zh=
ang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org;
> BIER WG
> *=E4=B8=BB**=E9=A2=98**:* RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bieri=
n6-03>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t have a good understanding about the writing in the latest=
 email
> below, but for the following original comment that led to it:
>
> =C2=B7        [XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the=
 last
> NH to judge if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an
> incoming packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you have to
> walk the whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to
> execute the above =E2=80=9Cdiscard=E2=80=9D action. Right?
>
> What is the problem with that? This document is saying that for BIER
> packets, the only header that is expected is the TBD (for BIER) and
> otherwise you drop it. Normally, you would not have the
> (ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>) situation.
>
> [XJR] This document also said the following.
>
>  Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with
>
>   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next
>
>   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should
>
>   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the
>
>   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for
>
>   BIERin6').
>
> If the concern is that someone could maliciously inject that kind of
> packets for the purpose of slowing down a targeted BFR, then any of the
> following situation in RFC8200, independent of BIER, will have the same
> effect:
>
> [XJR] Right. There is also concern of injection of packets to slow down a
> targeted BFR. That may not the below case listed in RFC8200.
>
> Zzh> The RFC8200 text that I quoted would have the same concern =E2=80=93=
 that=E2=80=99s
> my point and it=E2=80=99s not BIER specific. In other words, some one cou=
ld
> maliciously construct some NON-BIER IPv6 packets with certain headers and
> slow down a router. Your concern with this draft would exist with RFC8200
> as well.
>
> [XJR] rfc8200 doesn't assume specific NH like BIER be processed in fast
> path. In real world, packets with any extension headers may be sent to CP=
U
> without "digging out some bier specific patterns and processing specially=
"
> and CPU can do that. They are always slow but doesn't walk the chain in
> chips.
>
> Jingrong
>
>
>
> Zzh> Jeffrey
>
> Also, there are concerns of flexibility as my comments before.
>
> For example:
>
> BIER may want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER in fast-path, and d=
rop
> IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.
>
> BIER may want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER or IPv6 NH=3DRH and
> RH_NH=3DBIER in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.
>
> a new feature, let's say REIB may have the similar requirements:
>
> REIB may want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DREIB in fast-path, and d=
rop
> IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.
>
> REIB may want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DREIB or IPv6 NH=3DRH and
> RH_NH=3DREIB in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.
>
> then I guess a lot of "walking through the EH chain" have to be executed
> like [XJR Q8].
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jingrong
>
>   If, as a result of processing a header, the destination node is
>
>   required to proceed to the next header but the Next Header value in
>
>   the current header is unrecognized by the node, it should discard the
>
>   packet and send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of
>
>   the packet, with an ICMP Code value of 1 ("unrecognized Next Header
>
>   type encountered") and the ICMP Pointer field containing the offset
>
>   of the unrecognized value within the original packet. The same
>
>   action should be taken if a node encounters a Next Header value of
>
>   zero in any header other than an IPv6 header.
>
> Jeffrey
>
> *From:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 7:20 AM
> *To:* Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <
> zzhang@juniper.net>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <
> bier@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> Exactly, the whole v6 extension headers(EH) and the v6 options
> consideration is basically a first stab!
>
> Once a judgement is based on the =E2=80=9CUpper-layer Protocol=E2=80=9D, =
the last next
> header of a chain, then a walk through the chain is unavoidable, to =E2=
=80=9Cdig
> out=E2=80=9D the right format that need to be processed in fast-path.
>
> The difficulty with a =E2=80=9Cregular=E2=80=9D IPv6 DA is that, normal t=
hings like
> TCP/UDP/ICMPv6 packet must be handled without much impact on it.
>
> Use a =E2=80=9CXXX specific IPv6 DA=E2=80=9D is not only the SRv6-Network=
Programming
> concept, but also the ISO NSAP address as I learned from a book and found
> in the WIKI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAP_address
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipedia.org_=
wiki_NSAP-5Faddress&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWz=
oCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZGN=
b6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&s=3DRh1tyYzDzhRq7ymA_JEJduNT94j_xiGhiQ-QgbwQ9L4&e=
=3D>
> :
>
> The *NSEL* (Network-Selector) is a field in the NSAP address that
> identifies the network layer
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipedia.org_=
wiki_Network-5Flayer&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcW=
zoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZG=
Nb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&s=3DCseHsrq8z_Cjx0ZsXzuYT3X9_3CMLv4SkB7Cs2nRPu0&e=
=3D>
> service to which a packet should be sent.
>
> BIER forwarding seems match very much a =E2=80=9Cnetwork layer service=E2=
=80=9D in my
> opinion, and the =E2=80=9CAB37=E2=80=9D in =E2=80=9C2019::AB37=E2=80=9D i=
s very similar to a NSEL too.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jingrong
>
> *From:* Antoni Przygienda [mailto:prz@juniper.net <prz@juniper.net>]
> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 12:02 AM
> *To:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Xiejingrong <
> xiejingrong@huawei.com>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <
> bier@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>
> 2.1. IPv6 Options Considerations
>
>   RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers. Currently
>
>   there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination
>
>   options header, which can carry a variable number of options. These
>
>   extension headers are inserted by the source node.
>
>   For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
>
>   options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the
>
>   BIERin6 packet. In this case IPv6 header, Next Header field should
>
>   be set to TBD. Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with
>
>   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next
>
>   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should
>
>   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the
>
>   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for
>
>   BIERin6').
>
> [XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to
> judge if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an incomi=
ng
> packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you have to walk the
> whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the
> above =E2=80=9Cdiscard=E2=80=9D action. Right?
>
> *prz> topic for discussion. The whole v6 options consideration is
> basically a first stab. *
>
>   This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6
>
>   encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
>
>   options be present in a BIERin6 packet.
>
> [XJR Q7]: What does =E2=80=9Cdisjoint BIER router=E2=80=9D mean?
>
> *prz> non-adjacent, good catch *
>
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Jeffrey, Jingrong, <a href=3D"http://et.al">et.al<=
/a></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The way IPv6 header [R=
FC8200] is defined, i believe we <u>cannot avoid</u> walking through &amp; =
process the chain of EHs in IPv6.<br>At best, what we can do (which is what=
 i believe today&#39;s CHIP&#39;s do is),<br><br>If NH=3DX -&gt; process in=
 fast path defined for hdr-type=3Dx<br>else=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-&gt;=
 process in slow path=C2=A0 (or drop - bad?)<br><br>Above technique can be =
applied to both draft-zhang-bier-bierin6 &amp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsul=
ation.<br><br>Besides above, below are some of the broader points considere=
d for comparison, that are discussed with Tony/Ice/Sandy/.. during the cour=
se of &amp; after ietf104.<br>Sharing it in the list and we shall continue =
to discuss on the pros &amp; cons.<br><br><b>1. Change of source-address at=
 each hop</b><br><br>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6: <br>Considering BIER as an L=
4 header, we are required to modify the source address at each hop. <br>Los=
s of original source address (BFIR&#39;s SA) might impact source address ba=
sed filtering policies applied if any, breaks ICMP6 based error reporting b=
ack to source etc<br>Yes, BFIR(source) can be identified from the bfir-id i=
n BIER header.<br>But we may need to consider the cases where in the ICMP6 =
error packet needs to be initiated by an non-BIER router based on IPv6 head=
er alone.<br><br>draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:<br>RFC8200 allows us to=
 change the content of a TLV (which is part of extension header) without ha=
ving to require changing the source-address.<br><br><b>2. Presence of AH/ES=
P headers</b><br><br>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6: <br>Requires re-hash(AH), re=
-encrypt(ESP) at each hop<br><br>draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:<br>Does=
 not require hop-by-hop processing. Possible to employ E2E IPsec protection=
.<br><br><b>3. Fragmentation</b><br><br>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6: <br>Requi=
res hop-by-hop re-assembly and fragmentation ?<br>But IPv6 requires that on=
ly source node MUST fragment the packet &amp; intermediate nodes cannot fra=
gment.<br>For draft-zhang-bier-bierin6, we shall consider that each hop re-=
originates the packet (with self as source) and fragment afresh.</div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">Again, this reminds us that, we cannot avoid changing the sourc=
e address of packet at each hop (point 1).<br><br>draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encap=
sulation:<br>Does not require hop-by-hop fragmentation / re-assembly<br><br=
><b>4. Network programming </b><br>(ex: See draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn, Use F=
UNC part to identify the vpn-instance instead of using MPLS style service l=
abels)<br><br>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6: <br>Because the source-address is r=
equired to change at each hop, we cannot use this technique?<br><br>draft-x=
ie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:<br>Can support.<br><br>Thanks,</div><div>Senthi=
l<br><br>On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 5:48 AM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=
=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org">40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_1932608104696389761WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Let me ask it this way:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What=E2=80=99s the difference between the following =
situation:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"gmail-m_1932608104696389761MsoListParagraph">&lt;some hop-by-h=
op or destination option hdr, NH=3DBIER&gt; (per draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-0=
3)<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"gmail-m_1932608104696389761MsoListParagra=
ph">&lt;same hop-by-hop or destination option hdr, NH=3D&lt;undefined&gt; (=
per RFC8200)<u></u><u></u></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If you have concern with #1, wouldn=E2=80=99t you ha=
ve the same concern with #2?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jeffrey<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_1932608104696389761msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center"=
 style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xieji=
ngrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 8:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-=
zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pls See comments inline:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:6pt 0in 0in" name=3D"AnyOffice-Backg=
round-Image">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=
=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</span></b>Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzh=
ang@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</span>=
</b>Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;;Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;;<a href=3D"mail=
to:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-zhang-bier-bi=
erin6@ietf.org</a>
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>&gt;;BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bi=
er@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif">=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=
=BC=9A</span></b>2019-07-13 07:43:22<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E4=B8=BB</span>=E2=80=83</b><b><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif">=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=
=9A</span></b>RE: Questions regarding
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"mail_hist_content">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please see zzh&gt; below.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_1932608104696389761msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center"=
 style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xieji=
ngrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 7:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,san=
s-serif;color:black">Hi Jeffrey,
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,san=
s-serif;color:black">Please see my comments inline below</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;colo=
r:black">
<hr size=3D"1" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_1932608104696389761divRpF634748">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN"=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:black">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
 Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" target=3D"_=
blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>]<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Mi=
crosoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=
=E9=97=B4</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,san=
s-serif;color:black">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
 2019</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;=
MS Gothic&quot;;color:black">=E5=B9=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">7</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" sty=
le=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;;color:black">=E6=9C=
=88</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color=
:black">12</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&=
quot;MS Gothic&quot;;color:black">=E6=97=A5</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
 22:27<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS=
 Gothic&quot;;color:black">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">:</span><=
/b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"=
>
 Xiejingrong; Antoni Przygienda; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS=
 Gothic&quot;;color:black">=E4=B8=BB</span></b><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" styl=
e=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:black">=E9=A2=98</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
 RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">I don=E2=80=99t have a g=
ood understanding about the writing in the latest email below, but for the =
following original comment that led to it:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black">=C2=B7</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:7pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;=
color:black"> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:black">[XJR Q6]: You have to wal=
k the ext header chain and get the last NH to judge if this packet need to =
be discard, right? For example for an incoming packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader=
+DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;), you have
 to walk the whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to ex=
ecute the above =E2=80=9Cdiscard=E2=80=9D action. Right?</span><span style=
=3D"color:black">
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">What is=
 the problem with that? This document is saying that for BIER packets, the =
only header that is expected is the TBD (for BIER) and
 otherwise you drop it. Normally, you would not have the (ipv6hdr+RoutingHe=
ader+DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;) situation.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">[XJR] T=
his document also said the following.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0Any IP=
v6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0 Heade=
r field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0 trans=
mit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0 packe=
t (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 (&#39;invalid options for</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0 BIERi=
n6&#39;).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">If the =
concern is that someone could maliciously inject that kind of packets for t=
he purpose of slowing down a targeted BFR, then any
 of the following situation in RFC8200, independent of BIER, will have the =
same effect:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">[XJR] R=
ight. There is also concern of injection of packets to slow down a targeted=
 BFR. That may not the below case listed in RFC8200.</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; The RFC8200 text that I quoted would have th=
e same concern =E2=80=93 that=E2=80=99s my point and it=E2=80=99s not BIER =
specific. In other words, some one could maliciously construct some NON-BIE=
R
 IPv6 packets with certain headers and slow down a router. Your concern wit=
h this draft would exist with RFC8200 as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[XJR] rfc8200 doesn&#39;t assume specific NH like BI=
ER be processed in fast path. In real world, packets with any extension hea=
ders may be sent to CPU without &quot;digging out some bier
 specific patterns and processing specially&quot; and CPU can do that. They=
 are always slow but doesn&#39;t walk the chain in chips.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jingrong<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; Jeffrey<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Also, t=
here are concerns of flexibility as my comments before.</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">For exa=
mple:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">BIER ma=
y want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER in fast-path, and drop IPv6 =
NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">BIER ma=
y want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER or IPv6 NH=3DRH and RH_NH=3D=
BIER in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">a new f=
eature, let&#39;s say REIB may have the similar requirements:</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">REIB ma=
y want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DREIB in fast-path, and drop IPv6 =
NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">REIB ma=
y want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DREIB or IPv6 NH=3DRH and RH_NH=3D=
REIB in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">then I =
guess a lot of &quot;walking through the EH chain&quot; have to be executed=
 like [XJR Q8].</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Thanks,=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Jingron=
g</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 If, as a result of processing a header, t=
he destination node is</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 required to proceed to the next header bu=
t the Next Header value in</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 the current header is unrecognized by the=
 node, it should discard the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 packet and send an ICMP Parameter Problem=
 message to the source of</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 the packet, with an ICMP Code value of 1 =
(&quot;unrecognized Next Header</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 type encountered&quot;) and the ICMP Poin=
ter field containing the offset</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 of the unrecognized value within the orig=
inal packet. The same</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 action should be taken if a node encounte=
rs a Next Header value of</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 zero in any header other than an IPv6 hea=
der.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Jeffrey=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:black"> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawe=
i.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 7:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=
=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Hi Tony,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Exactly, the whole v6 extension headers(EH) and the v6 options considerat=
ion is basically a first stab!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Once a judgement is based on the =E2=80=9CUpper-layer Protocol=E2=80=9D, =
the last next header of a chain, then a walk through the chain is unavoidab=
le,
 to =E2=80=9Cdig out=E2=80=9D the right format that need to be processed in=
 fast-path.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The difficulty with a =E2=80=9Cregular=E2=80=9D IPv6 DA is that, normal t=
hings like TCP/UDP/ICMPv6 packet must be handled without much impact on it.=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Use a =E2=80=9CXXX specific IPv6 DA=E2=80=9D is not only the SRv6-Network=
Programming concept, but also the ISO NSAP address as I learned from a book
 and found in the WIKI <a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?=
u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_NSAP-5Faddress&amp;d=3DDwMFAg&amp;c=3DH=
AkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&amp;r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_O=
LAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&amp;m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZGNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&amp=
;s=3DRh1tyYzDzhRq7ymA_JEJduNT94j_xiGhiQ-QgbwQ9L4&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_blank=
">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif=
;color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAP_address</span></a>=
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;color:b=
lack">:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">The
<b>NSEL</b> (Network-Selector) is a field in the NSAP address that identifi=
es the
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipe=
dia.org_wiki_Network-5Flayer&amp;d=3DDwMFAg&amp;c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjB=
XeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&amp;r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&am=
p;m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZGNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&amp;s=3DCseHsrq8z_Cjx0ZsX=
zuYT3X9_3CMLv4SkB7Cs2nRPu0&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(11,0,128)">network layer</span></a> service to whi=
ch a packet should be sent.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">BIER forwarding seems match very much a =E2=80=9Cnetwork layer service=E2=
=80=9D in my opinion, and the =E2=80=9CAB37=E2=80=9D in =E2=80=9C2019::AB37=
=E2=80=9D is very similar to a NSEL
 too. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Thanks</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Jingrong</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:black"> Antoni Przygienda [<a href=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.ne=
t" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">mailto:prz@juniper=
.net</span></a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 12:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">zzhang@juniper.net<=
/span></a>&gt;; Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">xiejingrong@huawei.com=
</span></a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><spa=
n style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</span></a=
>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">bier@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">2.1. IPv6 Options Considerations</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers. C=
urrently</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and D=
estination</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 options header, which can carry a variable number of opti=
ons. These</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 extension headers are inserted by the source node.</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or D=
estination</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR=
 on the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 BIERin6 packet. In this case IPv6 header, Next Header fie=
ld should
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0=C2=A0be set to TBD. Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and =
BFERs, with =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0=C2=A0multiple extension header where the last extension h=
eader has a Next</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node s=
hould</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source =
of the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 (&#39;inva=
lid options for</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 BIERin6&#39;).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">[XJR Q6=
]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to judge if th=
is packet need to be discard, right? For example for
 an incoming packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;), you=
 have to walk the whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, =
to execute the above =E2=80=9Cdiscard=E2=80=9D action. Right?</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">prz&=
gt; topic for discussion. The whole v6 options consideration is basically a=
 first stab.
</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using =
IPv6</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or=
 Destination</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 options be present in a BIERin6 packet.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">[XJR Q7=
]: What does =E2=80=9Cdisjoint BIER router=E2=80=9D mean?</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">prz&=
gt; non-adjacent, good catch
</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;color:black"><=
br>
</span><a name=3D"m_1932608104696389761__msipfooter30b3d538"></a><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:7pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
BIER mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BIER@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000218b0e058db22e5c--


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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 00:04:10 -0700
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To: Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>,  Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>,  "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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if your router can do BIER fast path IPv6 is not an interesting option no
matter which draft. one would either carry native ether or MPLS rather than
trying to build IPv6 fast path with header options @ arbitrary place,
probably misaligning bitmasks and ultimately forcing 4K buffers on v6
option processing in silicon which may be fun but it is expensive, complex
fun.

if a router cannot do native fast path BIER but it can do simple v6 then it
needs to throw off to slow-path and that is scenario on lots of low-end
silicon in Wi-Fi and so on where multicast is needed but throughput does
not have to be necessarily high. And yes, one could build v6 hop-by-hop
tunnels everywhere to tunnel BIER over hop-by-hop without any drafts needed
but obviously one can implement it simpler just like the market is liking
the simplicity of v4ov6 forwarding without tunnels ...

--- tony



On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 11:15 PM Senthil Dhanaraj <
senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Jeffrey, Jingrong, et.al
>
> The way IPv6 header [RFC8200] is defined, i believe we *cannot avoid*
> walking through & process the chain of EHs in IPv6.
> At best, what we can do (which is what i believe today's CHIP's do is),
>
> If NH=3DX -> process in fast path defined for hdr-type=3Dx
> else       -> process in slow path  (or drop - bad?)
>
> Above technique can be applied to both draft-zhang-bier-bierin6 &
> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation.
>
> Besides above, below are some of the broader points considered for
> comparison, that are discussed with Tony/Ice/Sandy/.. during the course o=
f
> & after ietf104.
> Sharing it in the list and we shall continue to discuss on the pros & con=
s.
>
> *1. Change of source-address at each hop*
>
> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6:
> Considering BIER as an L4 header, we are required to modify the source
> address at each hop.
> Loss of original source address (BFIR's SA) might impact source address
> based filtering policies applied if any, breaks ICMP6 based error reporti=
ng
> back to source etc
> Yes, BFIR(source) can be identified from the bfir-id in BIER header.
> But we may need to consider the cases where in the ICMP6 error packet
> needs to be initiated by an non-BIER router based on IPv6 header alone.
>
> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:
> RFC8200 allows us to change the content of a TLV (which is part of
> extension header) without having to require changing the source-address.
>
> *2. Presence of AH/ESP headers*
>
> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6:
> Requires re-hash(AH), re-encrypt(ESP) at each hop
>
> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:
> Does not require hop-by-hop processing. Possible to employ E2E IPsec
> protection..
>
> *3. Fragmentation*
>
> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6:
> Requires hop-by-hop re-assembly and fragmentation ?
> But IPv6 requires that only source node MUST fragment the packet &
> intermediate nodes cannot fragment.
> For draft-zhang-bier-bierin6, we shall consider that each hop
> re-originates the packet (with self as source) and fragment afresh.
> Again, this reminds us that, we cannot avoid changing the source address
> of packet at each hop (point 1).
>
> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:
> Does not require hop-by-hop fragmentation / re-assembly
>
> *4. Network programming *
> (ex: See draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn, Use FUNC part to identify the
> vpn-instance instead of using MPLS style service labels)
>
> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6:
> Because the source-address is required to change at each hop, we cannot
> use this technique?
>
> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:
> Can support.
>
> Thanks,
> Senthil
>
> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 5:48 AM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D
> 40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf..org <40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:
>
>> Let me ask it this way:
>>
>>
>>
>> What=E2=80=99s the difference between the following situation:
>>
>>
>>
>>    1. <some hop-by-hop or destination option hdr, NH=3DBIER> (per
>>    draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03)
>>    2. <same hop-by-hop or destination option hdr, NH=3D<undefined> (per
>>    RFC8200)
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have concern with #1, wouldn=E2=80=99t you have the same concern =
with #2?
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeffrey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Juniper Business Use Only
>>
>> *From:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 8:10 PM
>> *To:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Antoni Przygienda <
>> prz@juniper.net>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <
>> bier@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>>
>>
>>
>> Pls See comments inline:
>>
>> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@ju=
niper.net>
>>
>> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.co=
m>;Antoni Przygienda <
>> prz@juniper.net>;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org <
>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>;BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
>>
>> *=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A*2019-07-13 07:43:22
>>
>> *=E4=B8=BB **=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A*RE: Questions regarding
>>
>>
>>
>> Please see zzh> below.
>>
>> Juniper Business Use Only
>>
>> *From:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 7:34 PM
>> *To:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Antoni Przygienda <
>> prz@juniper.net>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <
>> bier@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>>
>> Hi Jeffrey,
>>
>> Please see my comments inline below
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [zzhang@juniper=
.net]
>> *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4**:* 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8812=E6=
=97=A5 22:27
>> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Xiejingrong; Antoni Przygienda;
>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG
>> *=E4=B8=BB**=E9=A2=98**:* RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bier=
in6-03>
>>
>> I don=E2=80=99t have a good understanding about the writing in the lates=
t email
>> below, but for the following original comment that led to it:
>>
>> =C2=B7        [XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get th=
e
>> last NH to judge if this packet need to be discard, right? For example f=
or
>> an incoming packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you hav=
e to
>> walk the whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to
>> execute the above =E2=80=9Cdiscard=E2=80=9D action. Right?
>>
>> What is the problem with that? This document is saying that for BIER
>> packets, the only header that is expected is the TBD (for BIER) and
>> otherwise you drop it. Normally, you would not have the
>> (ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>) situation.
>>
>> [XJR] This document also said the following.
>>
>>  Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with
>>
>>   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next
>>
>>   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should
>>
>>   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the
>>
>>   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for
>>
>>   BIERin6').
>>
>> If the concern is that someone could maliciously inject that kind of
>> packets for the purpose of slowing down a targeted BFR, then any of the
>> following situation in RFC8200, independent of BIER, will have the same
>> effect:
>>
>> [XJR] Right. There is also concern of injection of packets to slow down =
a
>> targeted BFR. That may not the below case listed in RFC8200.
>>
>> Zzh> The RFC8200 text that I quoted would have the same concern =E2=80=
=93 that=E2=80=99s
>> my point and it=E2=80=99s not BIER specific. In other words, some one co=
uld
>> maliciously construct some NON-BIER IPv6 packets with certain headers an=
d
>> slow down a router. Your concern with this draft would exist with RFC820=
0
>> as well.
>>
>> [XJR] rfc8200 doesn't assume specific NH like BIER be processed in fast
>> path. In real world, packets with any extension headers may be sent to C=
PU
>> without "digging out some bier specific patterns and processing speciall=
y"
>> and CPU can do that. They are always slow but doesn't walk the chain in
>> chips.
>>
>> Jingrong
>>
>>
>>
>> Zzh> Jeffrey
>>
>> Also, there are concerns of flexibility as my comments before.
>>
>> For example:
>>
>> BIER may want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER in fast-path, and
>> drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.
>>
>> BIER may want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER or IPv6 NH=3DRH an=
d
>> RH_NH=3DBIER in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.
>>
>> a new feature, let's say REIB may have the similar requirements:
>>
>> REIB may want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DREIB in fast-path, and
>> drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.
>>
>> REIB may want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DREIB or IPv6 NH=3DRH an=
d
>> RH_NH=3DREIB in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.
>>
>> then I guess a lot of "walking through the EH chain" have to be executed
>> like [XJR Q8].
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jingrong
>>
>>   If, as a result of processing a header, the destination node is
>>
>>   required to proceed to the next header but the Next Header value in
>>
>>   the current header is unrecognized by the node, it should discard the
>>
>>   packet and send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of
>>
>>   the packet, with an ICMP Code value of 1 ("unrecognized Next Header
>>
>>   type encountered") and the ICMP Pointer field containing the offset
>>
>>   of the unrecognized value within the original packet. The same
>>
>>   action should be taken if a node encounters a Next Header value of
>>
>>   zero in any header other than an IPv6 header.
>>
>> Jeffrey
>>
>> *From:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 7:20 AM
>> *To:* Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <
>> zzhang@juniper.net>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <
>> bier@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>>
>> Hi Tony,
>>
>> Exactly, the whole v6 extension headers(EH) and the v6 options
>> consideration is basically a first stab!
>>
>> Once a judgement is based on the =E2=80=9CUpper-layer Protocol=E2=80=9D,=
 the last next
>> header of a chain, then a walk through the chain is unavoidable, to =E2=
=80=9Cdig
>> out=E2=80=9D the right format that need to be processed in fast-path.
>>
>> The difficulty with a =E2=80=9Cregular=E2=80=9D IPv6 DA is that, normal =
things like
>> TCP/UDP/ICMPv6 packet must be handled without much impact on it.
>>
>> Use a =E2=80=9CXXX specific IPv6 DA=E2=80=9D is not only the SRv6-Networ=
kProgramming
>> concept, but also the ISO NSAP address as I learned from a book and foun=
d
>> in the WIKI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAP_address
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipedia.org=
_wiki_NSAP-5Faddress&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcW=
zoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZG=
Nb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&s=3DRh1tyYzDzhRq7ymA_JEJduNT94j_xiGhiQ-QgbwQ9L4&e=
=3D>
>> :
>>
>> The *NSEL* (Network-Selector) is a field in the NSAP address that
>> identifies the network layer
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipedia.org=
_wiki_Network-5Flayer&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXc=
WzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZ=
GNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&s=3DCseHsrq8z_Cjx0ZsXzuYT3X9_3CMLv4SkB7Cs2nRPu0&=
e=3D>
>> service to which a packet should be sent.
>>
>> BIER forwarding seems match very much a =E2=80=9Cnetwork layer service=
=E2=80=9D in my
>> opinion, and the =E2=80=9CAB37=E2=80=9D in =E2=80=9C2019::AB37=E2=80=9D =
is very similar to a NSEL too.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jingrong
>>
>> *From:* Antoni Przygienda [mailto:prz@juniper..net <prz@juniper.net>]
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 12:02 AM
>> *To:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Xiejingrong <
>> xiejingrong@huawei.com>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <
>> bier@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>>
>> 2.1. IPv6 Options Considerations
>>
>>   RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers. Currently
>>
>>   there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination
>>
>>   options header, which can carry a variable number of options. These
>>
>>   extension headers are inserted by the source node.
>>
>>   For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
>>
>>   options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the
>>
>>   BIERin6 packet. In this case IPv6 header, Next Header field should
>>
>>   be set to TBD. Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with
>>
>>   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next
>>
>>   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should
>>
>>   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the
>>
>>   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for
>>
>>   BIERin6').
>>
>> [XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to
>> judge if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an incom=
ing
>> packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you have to walk th=
e
>> whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the
>> above =E2=80=9Cdiscard=E2=80=9D action. Right?
>>
>> *prz> topic for discussion. The whole v6 options consideration is
>> basically a first stab. *
>>
>>   This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6
>>
>>   encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
>>
>>   options be present in a BIERin6 packet.
>>
>> [XJR Q7]: What does =E2=80=9Cdisjoint BIER router=E2=80=9D mean?
>>
>> *prz> non-adjacent, good catch *
>>
>>
>> Juniper Business Use Only
>> _______________________________________________
>> BIER mailing list
>> BIER@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>if your router can do BIER fast path IPv6 is not an i=
nteresting option no matter which draft. one would either carry native ethe=
r or MPLS rather than trying to build IPv6 fast path with header options @ =
arbitrary place, probably misaligning bitmasks and ultimately forcing 4K bu=
ffers on v6 option processing in silicon which may be fun but it is expensi=
ve, complex fun. <br></div><div><br></div><div>if a router cannot do native=
 fast path BIER but it can do simple v6 then it needs to throw off to slow-=
path and that is scenario on lots of low-end silicon in Wi-Fi and so on whe=
re multicast is needed but throughput does not have to be necessarily high.=
 And yes, one could build v6 hop-by-hop tunnels everywhere to tunnel BIER o=
ver hop-by-hop without any drafts needed but obviously one can implement it=
 simpler just like the market is liking the simplicity of v4ov6 forwarding =
without tunnels ... <br></div><div><br></div><div>--- tony <br></div><div><=
br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt=
r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 11:15 PM Senthil Dhanaraj &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sen=
thil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Jeffrey, Jingrong, <a =
href=3D"http://et.al" target=3D"_blank">et.al</a></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The way IPv6 header [RFC8200] is defined, i believe=
 we <u>cannot avoid</u> walking through &amp; process the chain of EHs in I=
Pv6.<br>At best, what we can do (which is what i believe today&#39;s CHIP&#=
39;s do is),<br><br>If NH=3DX -&gt; process in fast path defined for hdr-ty=
pe=3Dx<br>else=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-&gt; process in slow path=C2=A0 (=
or drop - bad?)<br><br>Above technique can be applied to both draft-zhang-b=
ier-bierin6 &amp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation.<br><br>Besides above, =
below are some of the broader points considered for comparison, that are di=
scussed with Tony/Ice/Sandy/.. during the course of &amp; after ietf104.<br=
>Sharing it in the list and we shall continue to discuss on the pros &amp; =
cons.<br><br><b>1. Change of source-address at each hop</b><br><br>draft-zh=
ang-bier-bierin6: <br>Considering BIER as an L4 header, we are required to =
modify the source address at each hop. <br>Loss of original source address =
(BFIR&#39;s SA) might impact source address based filtering policies applie=
d if any, breaks ICMP6 based error reporting back to source etc<br>Yes, BFI=
R(source) can be identified from the bfir-id in BIER header.<br>But we may =
need to consider the cases where in the ICMP6 error packet needs to be init=
iated by an non-BIER router based on IPv6 header alone.<br><br>draft-xie-bi=
er-ipv6-encapsulation:<br>RFC8200 allows us to change the content of a TLV =
(which is part of extension header) without having to require changing the =
source-address.<br><br><b>2. Presence of AH/ESP headers</b><br><br>draft-zh=
ang-bier-bierin6: <br>Requires re-hash(AH), re-encrypt(ESP) at each hop<br>=
<br>draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:<br>Does not require hop-by-hop proce=
ssing. Possible to employ E2E IPsec protection..<br><br><b>3. Fragmentation=
</b><br><br>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6: <br>Requires hop-by-hop re-assembly a=
nd fragmentation ?<br>But IPv6 requires that only source node MUST fragment=
 the packet &amp; intermediate nodes cannot fragment.<br>For draft-zhang-bi=
er-bierin6, we shall consider that each hop re-originates the packet (with =
self as source) and fragment afresh.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Again, this remi=
nds us that, we cannot avoid changing the source address of packet at each =
hop (point 1).<br><br>draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:<br>Does not requir=
e hop-by-hop fragmentation / re-assembly<br><br><b>4. Network programming <=
/b><br>(ex: See draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn, Use FUNC part to identify the vpn=
-instance instead of using MPLS style service labels)<br><br>draft-zhang-bi=
er-bierin6: <br>Because the source-address is required to change at each ho=
p, we cannot use this technique?<br><br>draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:<=
br>Can support.<br><br>Thanks,</div><div>Senthil<br><br>On Sat, Jul 13, 201=
9 at 5:48 AM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40junip=
er.net@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf..org</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-3139957942292676518gmail-m_-2387845595867114155gmail=
-m_1932608104696389761WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Let me ask it this way:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What=E2=80=99s the difference between the following =
situation:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"1" start=3D"1">
<li class=3D"gmail-m_-3139957942292676518gmail-m_-2387845595867114155gmail-=
m_1932608104696389761MsoListParagraph">&lt;some hop-by-hop or destination o=
ption hdr, NH=3DBIER&gt; (per draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03)<u></u><u></u></l=
i><li class=3D"gmail-m_-3139957942292676518gmail-m_-2387845595867114155gmai=
l-m_1932608104696389761MsoListParagraph">&lt;same hop-by-hop or destination=
 option hdr, NH=3D&lt;undefined&gt; (per RFC8200)<u></u><u></u></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If you have concern with #1, wouldn=E2=80=99t you ha=
ve the same concern with #2?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jeffrey<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_-3139957942292676518gmail-m_-2387845595867114155gmail-m=
_1932608104696389761msipfooter30b3d538" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;te=
xt-align:center" align=3D"center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xieji=
ngrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 8:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-=
zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pls See comments inline:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:6pt 0in 0in"=
 name=3D"AnyOffice-Background-Image">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=
=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</span></b>Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzh=
ang@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</span>=
</b>Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;;Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;;<a href=3D"mail=
to:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-zhang-bier-bi=
erin6@ietf.org</a>
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>&gt;;BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bi=
er@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif">=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=
=BC=9A</span></b>2019-07-13 07:43:22<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E4=B8=BB</span>=E2=80=83</b><b><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif">=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=
=9A</span></b>RE: Questions regarding
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"mail_hist_content">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please see zzh&gt; below.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_-3139957942292676518gmail-m_-2387845595867114155gmail-m=
_1932608104696389761msipfooter30b3d538" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;te=
xt-align:center" align=3D"center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xieji=
ngrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 7:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,san=
s-serif;color:black">Hi Jeffrey,
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,san=
s-serif;color:black">Please see my comments inline below</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center" align=3D"center"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;colo=
r:black">
<hr width=3D"100%" size=3D"1" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3139957942292676518gmail-m_-2387845595867114155gmail-m_=
1932608104696389761divRpF634748">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif;color:black=
" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
 Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" target=3D"_=
blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>]<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHe=
i&quot;,sans-serif;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=
=E9=97=B4</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,san=
s-serif;color:black">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
 2019</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;=
;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=B9=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">7</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=9C=
=88</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color=
:black">12</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&=
quot;;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=97=A5</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
 22:27<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;;c=
olor:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">:</span><=
/b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"=
>
 Xiejingrong; Antoni Przygienda; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;;c=
olor:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E4=B8=BB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:=
10pt;font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif;color:black" lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN">=E9=A2=98</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
 RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">I don=E2=80=99t have a g=
ood understanding about the writing in the latest email below, but for the =
following original comment that led to it:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black">=C2=B7</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:7pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;=
color:black"> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:black">[XJR Q6]: You have to wal=
k the ext header chain and get the last NH to judge if this packet need to =
be discard, right? For example for an incoming packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader=
+DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;), you have
 to walk the whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to ex=
ecute the above =E2=80=9Cdiscard=E2=80=9D action. Right?</span><span style=
=3D"color:black">
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">What is=
 the problem with that? This document is saying that for BIER packets, the =
only header that is expected is the TBD (for BIER) and
 otherwise you drop it. Normally, you would not have the (ipv6hdr+RoutingHe=
ader+DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;) situation.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">[XJR] T=
his document also said the following.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0Any IP=
v6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0 Heade=
r field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0 trans=
mit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0 packe=
t (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 (&#39;invalid options for</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0 BIERi=
n6&#39;).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">If the =
concern is that someone could maliciously inject that kind of packets for t=
he purpose of slowing down a targeted BFR, then any
 of the following situation in RFC8200, independent of BIER, will have the =
same effect:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">[XJR] R=
ight. There is also concern of injection of packets to slow down a targeted=
 BFR. That may not the below case listed in RFC8200.</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; The RFC8200 text that I quoted would have th=
e same concern =E2=80=93 that=E2=80=99s my point and it=E2=80=99s not BIER =
specific. In other words, some one could maliciously construct some NON-BIE=
R
 IPv6 packets with certain headers and slow down a router. Your concern wit=
h this draft would exist with RFC8200 as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[XJR] rfc8200 doesn&#39;t assume specific NH like BI=
ER be processed in fast path. In real world, packets with any extension hea=
ders may be sent to CPU without &quot;digging out some bier
 specific patterns and processing specially&quot; and CPU can do that. They=
 are always slow but doesn&#39;t walk the chain in chips.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jingrong<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; Jeffrey<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Also, t=
here are concerns of flexibility as my comments before.</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">For exa=
mple:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">BIER ma=
y want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER in fast-path, and drop IPv6 =
NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">BIER ma=
y want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER or IPv6 NH=3DRH and RH_NH=3D=
BIER in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">a new f=
eature, let&#39;s say REIB may have the similar requirements:</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">REIB ma=
y want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DREIB in fast-path, and drop IPv6 =
NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">REIB ma=
y want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DREIB or IPv6 NH=3DRH and RH_NH=3D=
REIB in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">then I =
guess a lot of &quot;walking through the EH chain&quot; have to be executed=
 like [XJR Q8].</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Thanks,=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Jingron=
g</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 If, as a result of processing a header, t=
he destination node is</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 required to proceed to the next header bu=
t the Next Header value in</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 the current header is unrecognized by the=
 node, it should discard the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 packet and send an ICMP Parameter Problem=
 message to the source of</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 the packet, with an ICMP Code value of 1 =
(&quot;unrecognized Next Header</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 type encountered&quot;) and the ICMP Poin=
ter field containing the offset</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 of the unrecognized value within the orig=
inal packet. The same</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 action should be taken if a node encounte=
rs a Next Header value of</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 zero in any header other than an IPv6 hea=
der.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Jeffrey=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:black"> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawe=
i.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 7:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=
=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Hi Tony,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Exactly, the whole v6 extension headers(EH) and the v6 options considerat=
ion is basically a first stab!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Once a judgement is based on the =E2=80=9CUpper-layer Protocol=E2=80=9D, =
the last next header of a chain, then a walk through the chain is unavoidab=
le,
 to =E2=80=9Cdig out=E2=80=9D the right format that need to be processed in=
 fast-path.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The difficulty with a =E2=80=9Cregular=E2=80=9D IPv6 DA is that, normal t=
hings like TCP/UDP/ICMPv6 packet must be handled without much impact on it.=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Use a =E2=80=9CXXX specific IPv6 DA=E2=80=9D is not only the SRv6-Network=
Programming concept, but also the ISO NSAP address as I learned from a book
 and found in the WIKI <a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?=
u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_NSAP-5Faddress&amp;d=3DDwMFAg&amp;c=3DH=
AkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&amp;r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_O=
LAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&amp;m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZGNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&amp=
;s=3DRh1tyYzDzhRq7ymA_JEJduNT94j_xiGhiQ-QgbwQ9L4&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_blank=
">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif=
;color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAP_address</span></a>=
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;color:b=
lack">:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">The
<b>NSEL</b> (Network-Selector) is a field in the NSAP address that identifi=
es the
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipe=
dia.org_wiki_Network-5Flayer&amp;d=3DDwMFAg&amp;c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjB=
XeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&amp;r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&am=
p;m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZGNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&amp;s=3DCseHsrq8z_Cjx0ZsX=
zuYT3X9_3CMLv4SkB7Cs2nRPu0&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(11,0,128)">network layer</span></a> service to whi=
ch a packet should be sent.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">BIER forwarding seems match very much a =E2=80=9Cnetwork layer service=E2=
=80=9D in my opinion, and the =E2=80=9CAB37=E2=80=9D in =E2=80=9C2019::AB37=
=E2=80=9D is very similar to a NSEL
 too. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Thanks</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Jingrong</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:black"> Antoni Przygienda [<a href=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.ne=
t" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">mailto:prz@juniper=
..net</span></a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 12:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">zzhang@juniper.net<=
/span></a>&gt;; Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">xiejingrong@huawei.com=
</span></a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><spa=
n style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</span></a=
>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">bier@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">2.1. IPv6 Options Considerations</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers. C=
urrently</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and D=
estination</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 options header, which can carry a variable number of opti=
ons. These</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 extension headers are inserted by the source node.</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or D=
estination</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR=
 on the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 BIERin6 packet. In this case IPv6 header, Next Header fie=
ld should
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0=C2=A0be set to TBD. Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and =
BFERs, with =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0=C2=A0multiple extension header where the last extension h=
eader has a Next</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node s=
hould</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source =
of the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 (&#39;inva=
lid options for</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 BIERin6&#39;).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">[XJR Q6=
]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to judge if th=
is packet need to be discard, right? For example for
 an incoming packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;), you=
 have to walk the whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, =
to execute the above =E2=80=9Cdiscard=E2=80=9D action. Right?</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">prz&=
gt; topic for discussion. The whole v6 options consideration is basically a=
 first stab.
</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using =
IPv6</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or=
 Destination</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 options be present in a BIERin6 packet.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">[XJR Q7=
]: What does =E2=80=9Cdisjoint BIER router=E2=80=9D mean?</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">prz&=
gt; non-adjacent, good catch
</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center" align=3D"center">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;color:black"><=
br>
</span><a name=3D"m_-3139957942292676518_m_-2387845595867114155_m_193260810=
4696389761__msipfooter30b3d538"></a><span style=3D"font-size:7pt;color:blac=
k">Juniper Business Use Only</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
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arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>, Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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References: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8DC468@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> <DM5PR05MB3548E853C20E03CC58C7956BD4F10@DM5PR05MB3548.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <MWHPR05MB32792FD6E09E4444B8DF45C3ACF30@MWHPR05MB3279.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8DD5B0@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> <DM5PR05MB3548F4EFF3EFC0CCDA3FDE73D4F20@DM5PR05MB3548.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8DD87A@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> <DM5PR05MB354819A911C930C1B8519CD4D4F20@DM5PR05MB3548.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <DM5PR05MB3548637A9F8CBB1CB70BE3E6D4CD0@DM5PR05MB3548.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CAG9=0bJyYGhmLnm8CVk904EcouaW7VCP7KTvuciWc57NuiFDpQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+wi2hNW4CbKgG1qgiaKqeGsz4GjS7hLkSDWH1yu4VFWfg2C5A@mail.gmail.com>
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From: Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 13:57:08 +0530
Message-ID: <CAG9=0b+DAKx0Xm_gBrYiQfkCi5kK0NX=PM4WMetQetVy4ND+Hg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Cc: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>,  Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>,  "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Hi Tony,
Pls see my comments inline !
Thanks,
Senthil

On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:34 PM Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

> if your router can do BIER fast path IPv6 is not an interesting option no
> matter which draft.
>
SEN1// Why not? ref SRv6/SRH - could successfully do fast-path with IPv6 ?


> one would either carry native ether or MPLS rather than trying to build
> IPv6 fast path with header options @ arbitrary place, probably misalignin=
g
> bitmasks and ultimately forcing 4K buffers on v6 option processing in
> silicon which may be fun but it is expensive, complex fun.
>
SEN1// Not at arbitrary places. draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation does
define some rules and assumption. We can continue to discuss and define the
rules/assumptions to facilitate fast path forwarding at chip. But
completely ruling out the presence of any EH in IPv6 BIER packet altogether
(or) ignoring the advantages brought by NP paradigm is harsh ?

if a router cannot do native fast path BIER but it can do simple v6 then it
> needs to throw off to slow-path and that is scenario on lots of low-end
> silicon in Wi-Fi and so on where multicast is needed but throughput does
> not have to be necessarily high.
>
SEN1// Agreed that, low cost devices, home networks does not require high
throughput and draft-zhang-bier-bierin6 could be an option for such
deployments. But again, even for such deployments we need to crack the
limitations (listed in my previous mail) that arises out of using "BIER as
payload of L3" ? Pls do let us know your thoughts.


> And yes, one could build v6 hop-by-hop tunnels everywhere to tunnel BIER
> over hop-by-hop without any drafts needed but obviously one can implement
> it simpler just like the market is liking the simplicity of v4ov6
> forwarding without tunnels ...
>
> --- tony
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 11:15 PM Senthil Dhanaraj <
> senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jeffrey, Jingrong, et.al
>>
>> The way IPv6 header [RFC8200] is defined, i believe we *cannot avoid*
>> walking through & process the chain of EHs in IPv6.
>> At best, what we can do (which is what i believe today's CHIP's do is),
>>
>> If NH=3DX -> process in fast path defined for hdr-type=3Dx
>> else       -> process in slow path  (or drop - bad?)
>>
>> Above technique can be applied to both draft-zhang-bier-bierin6 &
>> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation.
>>
>> Besides above, below are some of the broader points considered for
>> comparison, that are discussed with Tony/Ice/Sandy/.. during the course =
of
>> & after ietf104.
>> Sharing it in the list and we shall continue to discuss on the pros &
>> cons.
>>
>> *1. Change of source-address at each hop*
>>
>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6:
>> Considering BIER as an L4 header, we are required to modify the source
>> address at each hop.
>> Loss of original source address (BFIR's SA) might impact source address
>> based filtering policies applied if any, breaks ICMP6 based error report=
ing
>> back to source etc
>> Yes, BFIR(source) can be identified from the bfir-id in BIER header.
>> But we may need to consider the cases where in the ICMP6 error packet
>> needs to be initiated by an non-BIER router based on IPv6 header alone.
>>
>> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:
>> RFC8200 allows us to change the content of a TLV (which is part of
>> extension header) without having to require changing the source-address.
>>
>> *2. Presence of AH/ESP headers*
>>
>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6:
>> Requires re-hash(AH), re-encrypt(ESP) at each hop
>>
>> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:
>> Does not require hop-by-hop processing. Possible to employ E2E IPsec
>> protection..
>>
>> *3. Fragmentation*
>>
>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6:
>> Requires hop-by-hop re-assembly and fragmentation ?
>> But IPv6 requires that only source node MUST fragment the packet &
>> intermediate nodes cannot fragment.
>> For draft-zhang-bier-bierin6, we shall consider that each hop
>> re-originates the packet (with self as source) and fragment afresh.
>> Again, this reminds us that, we cannot avoid changing the source address
>> of packet at each hop (point 1).
>>
>> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:
>> Does not require hop-by-hop fragmentation / re-assembly
>>
>> *4. Network programming *
>> (ex: See draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn, Use FUNC part to identify the
>> vpn-instance instead of using MPLS style service labels)
>>
>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6:
>> Because the source-address is required to change at each hop, we cannot
>> use this technique?
>>
>> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:
>> Can support.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Senthil
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 5:48 AM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D
>> 40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf..org <40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:
>>
>>> Let me ask it this way:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What=E2=80=99s the difference between the following situation:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    1. <some hop-by-hop or destination option hdr, NH=3DBIER> (per
>>>    draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03)
>>>    2. <same hop-by-hop or destination option hdr, NH=3D<undefined> (per
>>>    RFC8200)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have concern with #1, wouldn=E2=80=99t you have the same concern=
 with #2?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeffrey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Juniper Business Use Only
>>>
>>> *From:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 8:10 PM
>>> *To:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Antoni Przygienda <
>>> prz@juniper.net>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <
>>> bier@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pls See comments inline:
>>>
>>> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@j=
uniper.net>
>>>
>>> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.c=
om>;Antoni Przygienda <
>>> prz@juniper.net>;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org <
>>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>;BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
>>>
>>> *=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A*2019-07-13 07:43:22
>>>
>>> *=E4=B8=BB **=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A*RE: Questions regarding
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please see zzh> below.
>>>
>>> Juniper Business Use Only
>>>
>>> *From:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 7:34 PM
>>> *To:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Antoni Przygienda <
>>> prz@juniper.net>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <
>>> bier@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>>>
>>> Hi Jeffrey,
>>>
>>> Please see my comments inline below
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [zzhang@junipe=
r.net]
>>> *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4**:* 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8812=E6=
=97=A5 22:27
>>> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Xiejingrong; Antoni Przygienda;
>>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG
>>> *=E4=B8=BB**=E9=A2=98**:* RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bie=
rin6-03>
>>>
>>> I don=E2=80=99t have a good understanding about the writing in the late=
st email
>>> below, but for the following original comment that led to it:
>>>
>>> =C2=B7        [XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get t=
he
>>> last NH to judge if this packet need to be discard, right? For example =
for
>>> an incoming packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you ha=
ve to
>>> walk the whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to
>>> execute the above =E2=80=9Cdiscard=E2=80=9D action. Right?
>>>
>>> What is the problem with that? This document is saying that for BIER
>>> packets, the only header that is expected is the TBD (for BIER) and
>>> otherwise you drop it. Normally, you would not have the
>>> (ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>) situation.
>>>
>>> [XJR] This document also said the following.
>>>
>>>  Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with
>>>
>>>   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next
>>>
>>>   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should
>>>
>>>   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the
>>>
>>>   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for
>>>
>>>   BIERin6').
>>>
>>> If the concern is that someone could maliciously inject that kind of
>>> packets for the purpose of slowing down a targeted BFR, then any of the
>>> following situation in RFC8200, independent of BIER, will have the same
>>> effect:
>>>
>>> [XJR] Right. There is also concern of injection of packets to slow down
>>> a targeted BFR. That may not the below case listed in RFC8200.
>>>
>>> Zzh> The RFC8200 text that I quoted would have the same concern =E2=80=
=93 that=E2=80=99s
>>> my point and it=E2=80=99s not BIER specific. In other words, some one c=
ould
>>> maliciously construct some NON-BIER IPv6 packets with certain headers a=
nd
>>> slow down a router. Your concern with this draft would exist with RFC82=
00
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> [XJR] rfc8200 doesn't assume specific NH like BIER be processed in fast
>>> path. In real world, packets with any extension headers may be sent to =
CPU
>>> without "digging out some bier specific patterns and processing special=
ly"
>>> and CPU can do that. They are always slow but doesn't walk the chain in
>>> chips.
>>>
>>> Jingrong
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Zzh> Jeffrey
>>>
>>> Also, there are concerns of flexibility as my comments before.
>>>
>>> For example:
>>>
>>> BIER may want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER in fast-path, and
>>> drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.
>>>
>>> BIER may want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER or IPv6 NH=3DRH a=
nd
>>> RH_NH=3DBIER in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.
>>>
>>> a new feature, let's say REIB may have the similar requirements:
>>>
>>> REIB may want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DREIB in fast-path, and
>>> drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.
>>>
>>> REIB may want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DREIB or IPv6 NH=3DRH a=
nd
>>> RH_NH=3DREIB in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.
>>>
>>> then I guess a lot of "walking through the EH chain" have to be execute=
d
>>> like [XJR Q8].
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jingrong
>>>
>>>   If, as a result of processing a header, the destination node is
>>>
>>>   required to proceed to the next header but the Next Header value in
>>>
>>>   the current header is unrecognized by the node, it should discard the
>>>
>>>   packet and send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of
>>>
>>>   the packet, with an ICMP Code value of 1 ("unrecognized Next Header
>>>
>>>   type encountered") and the ICMP Pointer field containing the offset
>>>
>>>   of the unrecognized value within the original packet. The same
>>>
>>>   action should be taken if a node encounters a Next Header value of
>>>
>>>   zero in any header other than an IPv6 header.
>>>
>>> Jeffrey
>>>
>>> *From:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 7:20 AM
>>> *To:* Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <
>>> zzhang@juniper.net>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <
>>> bier@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>>>
>>> Hi Tony,
>>>
>>> Exactly, the whole v6 extension headers(EH) and the v6 options
>>> consideration is basically a first stab!
>>>
>>> Once a judgement is based on the =E2=80=9CUpper-layer Protocol=E2=80=9D=
, the last next
>>> header of a chain, then a walk through the chain is unavoidable, to =E2=
=80=9Cdig
>>> out=E2=80=9D the right format that need to be processed in fast-path.
>>>
>>> The difficulty with a =E2=80=9Cregular=E2=80=9D IPv6 DA is that, normal=
 things like
>>> TCP/UDP/ICMPv6 packet must be handled without much impact on it.
>>>
>>> Use a =E2=80=9CXXX specific IPv6 DA=E2=80=9D is not only the SRv6-Netwo=
rkProgramming
>>> concept, but also the ISO NSAP address as I learned from a book and fou=
nd
>>> in the WIKI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAP_address
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipedia.or=
g_wiki_NSAP-5Faddress&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXc=
WzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZ=
GNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&s=3DRh1tyYzDzhRq7ymA_JEJduNT94j_xiGhiQ-QgbwQ9L4&=
e=3D>
>>> :
>>>
>>> The *NSEL* (Network-Selector) is a field in the NSAP address that
>>> identifies the network layer
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipedia.or=
g_wiki_Network-5Flayer&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTX=
cWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4p=
ZGNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&s=3DCseHsrq8z_Cjx0ZsXzuYT3X9_3CMLv4SkB7Cs2nRPu0=
&e=3D>
>>> service to which a packet should be sent.
>>>
>>> BIER forwarding seems match very much a =E2=80=9Cnetwork layer service=
=E2=80=9D in my
>>> opinion, and the =E2=80=9CAB37=E2=80=9D in =E2=80=9C2019::AB37=E2=80=9D=
 is very similar to a NSEL too.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Jingrong
>>>
>>> *From:* Antoni Przygienda [mailto:prz@juniper..net <prz@juniper.net>]
>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 12:02 AM
>>> *To:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Xiejingrong <
>>> xiejingrong@huawei.com>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG <
>>> bier@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>>>
>>> 2.1. IPv6 Options Considerations
>>>
>>>   RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers. Currently
>>>
>>>   there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination
>>>
>>>   options header, which can carry a variable number of options. These
>>>
>>>   extension headers are inserted by the source node.
>>>
>>>   For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
>>>
>>>   options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the
>>>
>>>   BIERin6 packet. In this case IPv6 header, Next Header field should
>>>
>>>   be set to TBD. Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with
>>>
>>>   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next
>>>
>>>   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should
>>>
>>>   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the
>>>
>>>   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for
>>>
>>>   BIERin6').
>>>
>>> [XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to
>>> judge if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an inco=
ming
>>> packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you have to walk t=
he
>>> whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the
>>> above =E2=80=9Cdiscard=E2=80=9D action. Right?
>>>
>>> *prz> topic for discussion. The whole v6 options consideration is
>>> basically a first stab. *
>>>
>>>   This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6
>>>
>>>   encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
>>>
>>>   options be present in a BIERin6 packet.
>>>
>>> [XJR Q7]: What does =E2=80=9Cdisjoint BIER router=E2=80=9D mean?
>>>
>>> *prz> non-adjacent, good catch *
>>>
>>>
>>> Juniper Business Use Only
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BIER mailing list
>>> BIER@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BIER mailing list
>> BIER@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi=C2=A0Tony,</div><div>Pls see my comments inline !<=
br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Senthil</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:34 PM Ton=
y Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com">tonysietf@gmail.com=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>if your router can do BIER fast path IPv6 is not an i=
nteresting option no matter which draft. </div></div></blockquote><div>SEN1=
// Why not? ref SRv6/SRH - could successfully do fast-path with IPv6 ?</div=
><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div>one would either carry native ether or MPLS rather than tryi=
ng to build IPv6 fast path with header options @ arbitrary place, probably =
misaligning bitmasks and ultimately forcing 4K buffers on v6 option process=
ing in silicon which may be fun but it is expensive, complex fun. <br></div=
></div></blockquote><div>SEN1// Not at arbitrary places. draft-xie-bier-ipv=
6-encapsulation does define some rules and assumption. We can continue to d=
iscuss and define the rules/assumptions to facilitate fast path forwarding =
at chip. But completely ruling out the presence of any EH in IPv6 BIER pack=
et altogether (or) ignoring the advantages brought by NP paradigm is harsh =
?</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><div>if a router cannot do native fast path BIER but it can d=
o simple v6 then it needs to throw off to slow-path and that is scenario on=
 lots of low-end silicon in Wi-Fi and so on where multicast is needed but t=
hroughput does not have to be necessarily high. </div></div></blockquote><d=
iv>SEN1// Agreed that, low cost devices, home networks does not require hig=
h throughput and draft-zhang-bier-bierin6 could be an option for such deplo=
yments. But again, even for such deployments we need to crack the limitatio=
ns (listed in my previous mail) that arises out of using &quot;BIER as payl=
oad of L3&quot; ? Pls do let us know your thoughts.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>And =
yes, one could build v6 hop-by-hop tunnels everywhere to tunnel BIER over h=
op-by-hop without any drafts needed but obviously one can implement it simp=
ler just like the market is liking the simplicity of v4ov6 forwarding witho=
ut tunnels ... <br></div><div><br></div><div>--- tony <br></div><div><br></=
div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 11:15 PM Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.=
dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Jeffrey, Jingrong, <a href=
=3D"http://et.al" target=3D"_blank">et.al</a></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">The way IPv6 header [RFC8200] is defined, i believe we =
<u>cannot avoid</u> walking through &amp; process the chain of EHs in IPv6.=
<br>At best, what we can do (which is what i believe today&#39;s CHIP&#39;s=
 do is),<br><br>If NH=3DX -&gt; process in fast path defined for hdr-type=
=3Dx<br>else=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-&gt; process in slow path=C2=A0 (or=
 drop - bad?)<br><br>Above technique can be applied to both draft-zhang-bie=
r-bierin6 &amp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation.<br><br>Besides above, be=
low are some of the broader points considered for comparison, that are disc=
ussed with Tony/Ice/Sandy/.. during the course of &amp; after ietf104.<br>S=
haring it in the list and we shall continue to discuss on the pros &amp; co=
ns.<br><br><b>1. Change of source-address at each hop</b><br><br>draft-zhan=
g-bier-bierin6: <br>Considering BIER as an L4 header, we are required to mo=
dify the source address at each hop. <br>Loss of original source address (B=
FIR&#39;s SA) might impact source address based filtering policies applied =
if any, breaks ICMP6 based error reporting back to source etc<br>Yes, BFIR(=
source) can be identified from the bfir-id in BIER header.<br>But we may ne=
ed to consider the cases where in the ICMP6 error packet needs to be initia=
ted by an non-BIER router based on IPv6 header alone.<br><br>draft-xie-bier=
-ipv6-encapsulation:<br>RFC8200 allows us to change the content of a TLV (w=
hich is part of extension header) without having to require changing the so=
urce-address.<br><br><b>2. Presence of AH/ESP headers</b><br><br>draft-zhan=
g-bier-bierin6: <br>Requires re-hash(AH), re-encrypt(ESP) at each hop<br><b=
r>draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:<br>Does not require hop-by-hop process=
ing. Possible to employ E2E IPsec protection..<br><br><b>3. Fragmentation</=
b><br><br>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6: <br>Requires hop-by-hop re-assembly and=
 fragmentation ?<br>But IPv6 requires that only source node MUST fragment t=
he packet &amp; intermediate nodes cannot fragment.<br>For draft-zhang-bier=
-bierin6, we shall consider that each hop re-originates the packet (with se=
lf as source) and fragment afresh.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Again, this remind=
s us that, we cannot avoid changing the source address of packet at each ho=
p (point 1).<br><br>draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:<br>Does not require =
hop-by-hop fragmentation / re-assembly<br><br><b>4. Network programming </b=
><br>(ex: See draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn, Use FUNC part to identify the vpn-i=
nstance instead of using MPLS style service labels)<br><br>draft-zhang-bier=
-bierin6: <br>Because the source-address is required to change at each hop,=
 we cannot use this technique?<br><br>draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation:<br=
>Can support.<br><br>Thanks,</div><div>Senthil<br><br>On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 =
at 5:48 AM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40juniper=
.net@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf..org</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_3045844361074727436gmail-m_-3139957942292676518gmail-=
m_-2387845595867114155gmail-m_1932608104696389761WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Let me ask it this way:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What=E2=80=99s the difference between the following =
situation:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"1" start=3D"1">
<li class=3D"gmail-m_3045844361074727436gmail-m_-3139957942292676518gmail-m=
_-2387845595867114155gmail-m_1932608104696389761MsoListParagraph">&lt;some =
hop-by-hop or destination option hdr, NH=3DBIER&gt; (per draft-zhang-bier-b=
ierin6-03)<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"gmail-m_3045844361074727436gmail-=
m_-3139957942292676518gmail-m_-2387845595867114155gmail-m_19326081046963897=
61MsoListParagraph">&lt;same hop-by-hop or destination option hdr, NH=3D&lt=
;undefined&gt; (per RFC8200)<u></u><u></u></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If you have concern with #1, wouldn=E2=80=99t you ha=
ve the same concern with #2?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jeffrey<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_3045844361074727436gmail-m_-3139957942292676518gmail-m_=
-2387845595867114155gmail-m_1932608104696389761msipfooter30b3d538" style=3D=
"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-align:center" align=3D"center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xieji=
ngrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 8:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-=
zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pls See comments inline:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:6pt 0in 0in"=
 name=3D"AnyOffice-Background-Image">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=
=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</span></b>Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzh=
ang@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</span>=
</b>Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;;Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;;<a href=3D"mail=
to:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-zhang-bier-bi=
erin6@ietf.org</a>
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>&gt;;BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bi=
er@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif">=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=
=BC=9A</span></b>2019-07-13 07:43:22<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E4=B8=BB</span>=E2=80=83</b><b><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif">=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=
=9A</span></b>RE: Questions regarding
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"mail_hist_content">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please see zzh&gt; below.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_3045844361074727436gmail-m_-3139957942292676518gmail-m_=
-2387845595867114155gmail-m_1932608104696389761msipfooter30b3d538" style=3D=
"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-align:center" align=3D"center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xieji=
ngrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 7:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,san=
s-serif;color:black">Hi Jeffrey,
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,san=
s-serif;color:black">Please see my comments inline below</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center" align=3D"center"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;colo=
r:black">
<hr width=3D"100%" size=3D"1" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_3045844361074727436gmail-m_-3139957942292676518gmail-m_-=
2387845595867114155gmail-m_1932608104696389761divRpF634748">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif;color:black=
" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
 Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" target=3D"_=
blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>]<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHe=
i&quot;,sans-serif;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=
=E9=97=B4</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,san=
s-serif;color:black">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
 2019</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;=
;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=B9=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">7</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=9C=
=88</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color=
:black">12</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&=
quot;;color:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=97=A5</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
 22:27<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;;c=
olor:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">:</span><=
/b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"=
>
 Xiejingrong; Antoni Przygienda; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;;c=
olor:black" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E4=B8=BB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:=
10pt;font-family:&quot;Microsoft JhengHei&quot;,sans-serif;color:black" lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN">=E9=A2=98</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
 RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">I don=E2=80=99t have a g=
ood understanding about the writing in the latest email below, but for the =
following original comment that led to it:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black">=C2=B7</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:7pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;=
color:black"> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:black">[XJR Q6]: You have to wal=
k the ext header chain and get the last NH to judge if this packet need to =
be discard, right? For example for an incoming packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader=
+DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;), you have
 to walk the whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to ex=
ecute the above =E2=80=9Cdiscard=E2=80=9D action. Right?</span><span style=
=3D"color:black">
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">What is=
 the problem with that? This document is saying that for BIER packets, the =
only header that is expected is the TBD (for BIER) and
 otherwise you drop it. Normally, you would not have the (ipv6hdr+RoutingHe=
ader+DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;) situation.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">[XJR] T=
his document also said the following.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0Any IP=
v6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0 Heade=
r field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0 trans=
mit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0 packe=
t (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 (&#39;invalid options for</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:navy">=C2=A0 BIERi=
n6&#39;).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">If the =
concern is that someone could maliciously inject that kind of packets for t=
he purpose of slowing down a targeted BFR, then any
 of the following situation in RFC8200, independent of BIER, will have the =
same effect:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">[XJR] R=
ight. There is also concern of injection of packets to slow down a targeted=
 BFR. That may not the below case listed in RFC8200.</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; The RFC8200 text that I quoted would have th=
e same concern =E2=80=93 that=E2=80=99s my point and it=E2=80=99s not BIER =
specific. In other words, some one could maliciously construct some NON-BIE=
R
 IPv6 packets with certain headers and slow down a router. Your concern wit=
h this draft would exist with RFC8200 as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[XJR] rfc8200 doesn&#39;t assume specific NH like BI=
ER be processed in fast path. In real world, packets with any extension hea=
ders may be sent to CPU without &quot;digging out some bier
 specific patterns and processing specially&quot; and CPU can do that. They=
 are always slow but doesn&#39;t walk the chain in chips.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jingrong<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; Jeffrey<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Also, t=
here are concerns of flexibility as my comments before.</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">For exa=
mple:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">BIER ma=
y want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER in fast-path, and drop IPv6 =
NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">BIER ma=
y want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DBIER or IPv6 NH=3DRH and RH_NH=3D=
BIER in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DBIER.</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">a new f=
eature, let&#39;s say REIB may have the similar requirements:</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">REIB ma=
y want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DREIB in fast-path, and drop IPv6 =
NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">REIB ma=
y want to process a packet with IPv6 NH=3DREIB or IPv6 NH=3DRH and RH_NH=3D=
REIB in fast-path, and drop IPv6 NH=3Dxxx and Last_NH=3DREIB.</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">then I =
guess a lot of &quot;walking through the EH chain&quot; have to be executed=
 like [XJR Q8].</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Thanks,=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Jingron=
g</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 If, as a result of processing a header, t=
he destination node is</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 required to proceed to the next header bu=
t the Next Header value in</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 the current header is unrecognized by the=
 node, it should discard the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 packet and send an ICMP Parameter Problem=
 message to the source of</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 the packet, with an ICMP Code value of 1 =
(&quot;unrecognized Next Header</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 type encountered&quot;) and the ICMP Poin=
ter field containing the offset</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 of the unrecognized value within the orig=
inal packet. The same</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 action should be taken if a node encounte=
rs a Next Header value of</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 zero in any header other than an IPv6 hea=
der.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Jeffrey=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:black"> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawe=
i.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 7:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=
=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Hi Tony,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Exactly, the whole v6 extension headers(EH) and the v6 options considerat=
ion is basically a first stab!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Once a judgement is based on the =E2=80=9CUpper-layer Protocol=E2=80=9D, =
the last next header of a chain, then a walk through the chain is unavoidab=
le,
 to =E2=80=9Cdig out=E2=80=9D the right format that need to be processed in=
 fast-path.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The difficulty with a =E2=80=9Cregular=E2=80=9D IPv6 DA is that, normal t=
hings like TCP/UDP/ICMPv6 packet must be handled without much impact on it.=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Use a =E2=80=9CXXX specific IPv6 DA=E2=80=9D is not only the SRv6-Network=
Programming concept, but also the ISO NSAP address as I learned from a book
 and found in the WIKI <a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?=
u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_NSAP-5Faddress&amp;d=3DDwMFAg&amp;c=3DH=
AkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&amp;r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_O=
LAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&amp;m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZGNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&amp=
;s=3DRh1tyYzDzhRq7ymA_JEJduNT94j_xiGhiQ-QgbwQ9L4&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_blank=
">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif=
;color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAP_address</span></a>=
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;color:b=
lack">:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">The
<b>NSEL</b> (Network-Selector) is a field in the NSAP address that identifi=
es the
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__en.wikipe=
dia.org_wiki_Network-5Flayer&amp;d=3DDwMFAg&amp;c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjB=
XeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&amp;r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&am=
p;m=3DhKlg11Qzoo3dyO4pZGNb6wtU4M6Kb1RXIFHB6JnSl4A&amp;s=3DCseHsrq8z_Cjx0ZsX=
zuYT3X9_3CMLv4SkB7Cs2nRPu0&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(11,0,128)">network layer</span></a> service to whi=
ch a packet should be sent.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">BIER forwarding seems match very much a =E2=80=9Cnetwork layer service=E2=
=80=9D in my opinion, and the =E2=80=9CAB37=E2=80=9D in =E2=80=9C2019::AB37=
=E2=80=9D is very similar to a NSEL
 too. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Thanks</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Jingrong</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:black"> Antoni Przygienda [<a href=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.ne=
t" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">mailto:prz@juniper=
..net</span></a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 12, 2019 12:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">zzhang@juniper.net<=
/span></a>&gt;; Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">xiejingrong@huawei.com=
</span></a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><spa=
n style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</span></a=
>; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)">bier@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">2.1. IPv6 Options Considerations</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers. C=
urrently</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and D=
estination</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 options header, which can carry a variable number of opti=
ons. These</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 extension headers are inserted by the source node.</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or D=
estination</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR=
 on the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 BIERin6 packet. In this case IPv6 header, Next Header fie=
ld should
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0=C2=A0be set to TBD. Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and =
BFERs, with =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0=C2=A0multiple extension header where the last extension h=
eader has a Next</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node s=
hould</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source =
of the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 (&#39;inva=
lid options for</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 BIERin6&#39;).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">[XJR Q6=
]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to judge if th=
is packet need to be discard, right? For example for
 an incoming packet(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;), you=
 have to walk the whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, =
to execute the above =E2=80=9Cdiscard=E2=80=9D action. Right?</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">prz&=
gt; topic for discussion. The whole v6 options consideration is basically a=
 first stab.
</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using =
IPv6</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or=
 Destination</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:navy">=C2=A0 options be present in a BIERin6 packet.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">[XJR Q7=
]: What does =E2=80=9Cdisjoint BIER router=E2=80=9D mean?</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">prz&=
gt; non-adjacent, good catch
</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center" align=3D"center">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif;color:black"><=
br>
</span><a name=3D"m_3045844361074727436_m_-3139957942292676518_m_-238784559=
5867114155_m_1932608104696389761__msipfooter30b3d538"></a><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:7pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BIER@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div>

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In-Reply-To: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8EAFB1@nkgeml514-mbs.china.huawei.com>
From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 08:57:37 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+wi2hNZVEmUGBunc1YD5JAG7xtNnCf5hgzQ8FuSYOfJw2OcZg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
Cc: Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>,  "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>,  "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/YVSgzG4WFoqR3oVS1njuMTwVq8Q>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:39 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote=
:

> Please see my comments below:
>
>
>
> *From:* Tony Przygienda [mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2019 3:04 PM
> *To:* Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>;
> Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>;
> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>
>
>
> if your router can do BIER fast path IPv6 is not an interesting option no
> matter which draft.
>
> [XJR] That=E2=80=99s not true. The interest in BIER-IPv6-fast-path is str=
ong.
> There is no problem of =E2=80=9Cinterest=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Crequirement=
=E2=80=9D. The problem is the lack
> of convinced  =E2=80=9Ctechnology=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Csolution=E2=80=9D.
>

enlighten me where you saw that except being personally convinced it's cool
... And what is the specific reason customer would want that
complexity/cost of v6 option processing silicon compared to ether/mpls
encaps.


> one would either carry native ether or MPLS rather than trying to build
> IPv6 fast path with header options @ arbitrary place,
>
> probably misaligning bitmasks and ultimately forcing 4K buffers on v6
> option processing in silicon which may be fun but it is expensive, comple=
x
> fun.
>
> [XJR] The proposals are not as good as expected,  or could not do it in a
> simple and inexpensive way! I guess this is the point.
>

yupp. MPLS/Ether will be as inexpensive as it can be and shares same
processing block.


> [XJR] Well I think, using a preceding BIER-Specific IPv6 Address in IPv6
> DA can solve the problem perfectly.
>
> [XJR] This is the way SRv6/SRH do, *which first introduces the fast-path
> processing of extension header*, without recognition the pattern of the
> EHs and the TLVs, but simply =E2=80=98process the desired packet, and dro=
p the
> undesired packet=E2=80=99!
>

BIER is neither SRv6 nor SRH so your point here is?

BIER is a L2.5 hop-by-hop multicast switching technology that should be
tunneled otherwise. v6 enaps (where we really abuse v6 as L1 transport) is
only justified if ether/mpls cannot be implemented but chips can do very
simple v6 processing and there is not high throughput requirement (albeit
one could build bierin6 fast-path in silicon obviously). Obviously bierin6
gives you the nice trick to tunnel it to a v6 destination without
establishing a real tunnel but it's really just a by-product and not its
main goal

--- tony


>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:39 AM Xiej=
ingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com">xiejingrong@huawei.co=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
>





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_6538577138558118875WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Please see my c=
omments below:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font=
-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" lang=3D"EN-US"> Tony=
 Przygienda [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 15, 2019 3:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40juniper=
.net@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;=
; Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang=
-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org=
</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">if your router can do BIER fast=
 path IPv6 is not an interesting option no matter which draft.
<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR] That=E2=
=80=99s not true. The interest in BIER-IPv6-fast-path is strong.=C2=A0 Ther=
e is no problem of =E2=80=9Cinterest=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Crequirement=E2=80=
=9D. The problem is the lack
 of convinced =C2=A0=E2=80=9Ctechnology=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Csolution=E2=80=
=9D.</span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>enl=
ighten me where you saw that except being personally convinced it&#39;s coo=
l ... And what is the specific reason customer would want that complexity/c=
ost of v6 option processing silicon compared to ether/mpls encaps. <br></di=
v><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div l=
ang=3D"ZH-CN"><div class=3D"gmail-m_6538577138558118875WordSection1"><div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">one would either carry native e=
ther or MPLS rather than trying to build IPv6 fast path with header options=
 @ arbitrary place,
<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">probably misaligning bitmasks a=
nd ultimately forcing 4K buffers on v6 option processing in silicon which m=
ay be fun but it is expensive, complex fun.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR] The propo=
sals are not as good as expected, =C2=A0or could not do it in a simple and =
inexpensive way! I guess this is the point.</span></p></div></div></div></d=
iv></blockquote><div><br></div><div>yupp. MPLS/Ether will be as inexpensive=
 as it can be and shares same processing block. <br></div><div>=C2=A0</div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div =
class=3D"gmail-m_6538577138558118875WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR] Well I th=
ink, using a preceding BIER-Specific IPv6 Address in IPv6 DA can solve the =
problem perfectly.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR] This is t=
he way SRv6/SRH do,
<b>which first introduces the fast-path processing of extension header</b>,=
 without recognition the pattern of the EHs and the TLVs, but simply =E2=80=
=98process the desired packet, and drop the undesired packet=E2=80=99!</spa=
n></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>BIER is neit=
her SRv6 nor SRH so your point here is?</div><div><br></div><div>BIER is a =
L2.5 hop-by-hop multicast switching technology that should be tunneled othe=
rwise. v6 enaps (where we really abuse v6 as L1 transport) is only justifie=
d if ether/mpls cannot be implemented but chips can do very simple v6 proce=
ssing and there is not high throughput requirement (albeit one could build =
bierin6 fast-path in silicon obviously). Obviously bierin6 gives you the ni=
ce trick to tunnel it to a v6 destination without establishing a real tunne=
l but it&#39;s really just a by-product and not its main goal <br></div><di=
v><br></div><div>--- tony <br></div><div>=C2=A0<span lang=3D"EN-US"></span>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"=
><div class=3D"gmail-m_6538577138558118875WordSection1"><div><blockquote st=
yle=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)=
;border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;pa=
dding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000d338d0058dba531a--


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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
CC: Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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--_004_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8F1681nkgeml514mbschi_--


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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
CC: Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 08:28:50 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+wi2hM=xME5-nYCP1xkfMx7+SwSQUtSXqnywBaC9Vamx+rzEA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
Cc: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>,  BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>,  "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>,  "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/DBcUQOdiK065yW_XqsZwFGn5V08>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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To close this thread the discussion needs to focus on the requirements
draft during IETF and on this mailing list first and we see what comes out
of that and accordingly the drafts will evolve ...

I have many observations towards the req' draft and I expect a lively
discussion. If I find time I may fire off something to the list before IETF
along those lines ...

thanks

--- tony

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 3:31 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote:

> Sorry, the picture didn=E2=80=99t show in the list.
>
> I re-write in text:
>
>
>
> -------Solution Using NH=3DBIER (draft-zhang-bier-bierin6)-------
>
> Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA)                            //Step 0
>
> Switch(Result)
>
>   Case Local Interface IPv6 Address:               //Step 1
>
>     If packet is (NH=3DBIER)                         //Step 2 (*A*)
>
>         Process it
>
>     Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d & Last_NH=3DBIER)  //Step 3
>
>         Process it
>
>     Else If packet is (NH=3DXXXX)                    //Step 4 (*B*)
>
>         Process it
>
>     Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d & Last_NH=3DXXXX)  //Step 5
>
>         Process it
>
>     Else If packet is (NH=3DYYYY)                    //Step 6 (*C*)
>
>         Process it
>
>     Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d & Last_NH=3DYYYY)  //Step 7
>
>         Process it
>
>     Else
>
>         Do normal things as usual                  //Step 8 (*D*)
>
>   Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Address
>
>       Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.
>
>
>
> (A) need 2~3 steps!
>
> (B) need 4~5 steps!
>
> (C) need 6~7 steps!
>
> (D) need 8 steps!
>
>
>
>
>
> -------Solution Using EH and
> End.BIER(draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation)-------
>
> Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA)                                   //Step 0
>
> Switch(Result)
>
>   Case End.BIER:                                          //Step 1
>
>     IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4  //Step 2(=
A)
>
>          Process it
>
>     ELSE IF (NH=3DICMPv6) or (NH=3D60 and Dest_NH=3DICMPv6)
>
>          Send to CPU.
>
>     ELSE
>
>          Drop the packet.
>
>   Case End.XXXX:                                         //Step 1
>
>     IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(B=
)
>
>         Process it
>
>     ELSE
>
>         Drop the packet
>
>  Case End.YYYY:                                          //Step 1
>
>     IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(C=
)
>
>         Process it
>
>     ELSE
>
>         Drop the packet
>
>   Case Local Interface IPv6 Address:                     //Step 1
>
>         Do normal things as usual                        //Step 2(D)
>
>   Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Address
>
>         Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.
>
>
>
> (A) need 2 steps!
>
> (B) need 2 steps!
>
> (C) need 2 steps!
>
> (D) need 2 steps!
>
>
>
>
>
> -------Repeat the advantages-------
>
> The least impact:  Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=E2=80=99t im=
pact
> other cases.
>
> The most efficient:  Do not need walking through EH ---- only check the
> first EH.
>
> The most extensible to support features in the future:   Combine with
> Routing Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation, AH or ESP.  Support Multiple BI=
ER
> TLVs in a single Destination Options header. etc.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Jingrong.
>
>
>
> *From:* BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xiejingrong
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 5:29 PM
> *To:* Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <
> zzhang@juniper.net>
> *Cc:* Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>; BIER WG <
> bier@ietf.org>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda <
> prz@juniper.net>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D
> 40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>
>
>
> Hi Tony, Jeffrey:
>
> Let=E2=80=99s f2f in BIER session at Montreal.
>
> Here is a page I think useful to understand the difference between Layer-=
4
> solution(left) and Layer-3 solution(right).
>
> That=E2=80=99s why I think use of a preceding End.BIER is most efficient =
(for BIER
> forwarding), least impact (to exist functions), and most extensible for
> future functions.
>
>
>
> The least impact:  Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=E2=80=99t im=
pact
> other cases.
>
> The most efficient:  Do not need walking through EH ---- only check the
> first EH.
>
> The most extensible to support features in the future:   Combine with
> Routing Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation, AH or ESP.  Support Multiple BI=
ER
> TLVs in a single Destination Options header. etc.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Jingrong
>
>
>
> *From:* Tony Przygienda [mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com <tonysietf@gmail.com>=
]
>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2019 11:58 PM
> *To:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
> *Cc:* Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>; Jeffrey
> (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; BIER WG <
> bier@ietf.org>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda <
> prz@juniper.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:39 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Please see my comments below:
>
>
>
> *From:* Tony Przygienda [mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2019 3:04 PM
> *To:* Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>;
> Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>;
> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>
>
>
> if your router can do BIER fast path IPv6 is not an interesting option no
> matter which draft.
>
> [XJR] That=E2=80=99s not true. The interest in BIER-IPv6-fast-path is str=
ong.
> There is no problem of =E2=80=9Cinterest=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Crequirement=
=E2=80=9D. The problem is the lack
> of convinced  =E2=80=9Ctechnology=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Csolution=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
> enlighten me where you saw that except being personally convinced it's
> cool ... And what is the specific reason customer would want that
> complexity/cost of v6 option processing silicon compared to ether/mpls
> encaps.
>
>
>
> one would either carry native ether or MPLS rather than trying to build
> IPv6 fast path with header options @ arbitrary place,
>
> probably misaligning bitmasks and ultimately forcing 4K buffers on v6
> option processing in silicon which may be fun but it is expensive, comple=
x
> fun.
>
> [XJR] The proposals are not as good as expected,  or could not do it in a
> simple and inexpensive way! I guess this is the point.
>
>
>
> yupp. MPLS/Ether will be as inexpensive as it can be and shares same
> processing block.
>
>
>
> [XJR] Well I think, using a preceding BIER-Specific IPv6 Address in IPv6
> DA can solve the problem perfectly.
>
> [XJR] This is the way SRv6/SRH do, *which first introduces the fast-path
> processing of extension header*, without recognition the pattern of the
> EHs and the TLVs, but simply =E2=80=98process the desired packet, and dro=
p the
> undesired packet=E2=80=99!
>
>
>
> BIER is neither SRv6 nor SRH so your point here is?
>
>
>
> BIER is a L2.5 hop-by-hop multicast switching technology that should be
> tunneled otherwise. v6 enaps (where we really abuse v6 as L1 transport) i=
s
> only justified if ether/mpls cannot be implemented but chips can do very
> simple v6 processing and there is not high throughput requirement (albeit
> one could build bierin6 fast-path in silicon obviously). Obviously bierin=
6
> gives you the nice trick to tunnel it to a v6 destination without
> establishing a real tunnel but it's really just a by-product and not its
> main goal
>
>
>
> --- tony
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>To close this thread the discussion needs to focus on=
 the requirements draft during IETF and on this mailing list first and we s=
ee what comes out of that and accordingly the drafts will evolve ... <br></=
div><div><br></div><div>I have many observations towards the req&#39; draft=
 and I expect a lively discussion. If I find time I may fire off something =
to the list before IETF along those lines ... <br></div><div><br></div><div=
>thanks <br></div><div><br></div><div>--- tony <br></div></div><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 16, 20=
19 at 3:31 AM Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com">xie=
jingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-7369688171043148700WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Sorry, the picture =
didn=E2=80=99t show in the list.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">I re-write in text:=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">-------Solution Usi=
ng NH=3DBIER (draft-zhang-bier-bierin6)-------<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Result =3D FIB Look=
up(DA)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Switch(Result)<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 Case Local I=
nterface IPv6 Address:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
If packet is (NH=3DBIER)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 2 (*A*)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d &amp; Last_NH=3DBIER)=C2=A0 //Step 3<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Else If packet is (NH=3DXXXX)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Ste=
p 4 (*B*)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d &amp; Last_NH=3DXXXX)=C2=A0 //Step 5<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Else If packet is (NH=3DYYYY)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Ste=
p 6 (*C*)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d &amp; Last_NH=3DYYYY) =C2=A0//Step 7<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Else
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Do normal things as usual=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 //Step 8 (*D*)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 Case Non-Loc=
al Routable IPv6 Address<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">(A) need 2~3 steps!=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">(B) need 4~5 steps!=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">(C) need 6~7 steps!=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">(D) need 8 steps!<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">-------Solution Usi=
ng EH and End.BIER(draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation)-------</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rg=
b(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Result =3D FIB Look=
up(DA)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 0<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Switch(Result)<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 Case End.BIE=
R:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4=C2=A0 //Step 2(A=
)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
ELSE IF (NH=3DICMPv6) or (NH=3D60 and Dest_NH=3DICMPv6)<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Send to CPU.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
ELSE<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Drop the packet.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 Case End.XXX=
X:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(B)<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
ELSE<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Drop the packet<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0Case End.YYYY=
:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(C)<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
ELSE<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Drop the packet<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 Case Local I=
nterface IPv6 Address:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Ste=
p 1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Do normal things as usual=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0//Step 2(D)<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 Case Non-Loc=
al Routable IPv6 Address<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">(A) need 2 steps!<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">(B) need 2 steps!<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">(C) need 2 steps!<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">(D) need 2 steps!<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">-------Repeat the a=
dvantages-------</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">The least impac=
t:=C2=A0 Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=E2=80=99t impact other c=
ases.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">The most effici=
ent:=C2=A0 Do not need walking through EH ---- only check the first EH.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">The most extens=
ible to support features in the future:=C2=A0=C2=A0 Combine with Routing He=
ader(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation, AH or ESP.=C2=A0 Support Multiple BIER
 TLVs in a single Destination Options header. etc.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Jingrong.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font=
-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" lang=3D"EN-US"> BIER=
 [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier-bo=
unces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 5:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tony Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; BIER WG =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt=
;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">d=
raft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zha=
ohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Tony, Jeffre=
y:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Let=E2=80=99s f=
2f in BIER session at Montreal.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Here is a page =
I think useful to understand the difference between Layer-4 solution(left) =
and Layer-3 solution(right).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">That=E2=80=99s =
why I think use of a preceding End.BIER is most efficient (for BIER forward=
ing), least impact (to exist functions), and most extensible for
 future functions.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">The least impac=
t:=C2=A0 Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=E2=80=99t impact other c=
ases.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">The most effici=
ent:=C2=A0 Do not need walking through EH ---- only check the first EH.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">The most extens=
ible to support features in the future:=C2=A0=C2=A0 Combine with Routing He=
ader(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation, AH or ESP.=C2=A0 Support Multiple BIER
 TLVs in a single Destination Options header. etc.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Jingrong<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font=
-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" lang=3D"EN-US"> Tony=
 Przygienda [<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mailt=
o:tonysietf@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 15, 2019 11:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey =
(Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; BIER WG =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt=
;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:39 A=
M Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rg=
b(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium=
 medium 1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Please see my c=
omments below:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font=
-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" lang=3D"EN-US"> Tony
 Przygienda [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 15, 2019 3:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40juniper=
.net@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;=
; Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">if your router can do BIER fast=
 path IPv6 is not an interesting option no matter which draft.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR] That=E2=
=80=99s not true. The interest in BIER-IPv6-fast-path is strong.=C2=A0 Ther=
e is no problem
 of =E2=80=9Cinterest=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Crequirement=E2=80=9D. The proble=
m is the lack of convinced =C2=A0=E2=80=9Ctechnology=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cs=
olution=E2=80=9D.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">enlighten me where you saw that=
 except being personally convinced it&#39;s cool ... And what is the specif=
ic reason customer would want that complexity/cost of v6 option processing =
silicon compared to ether/mpls encaps.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rg=
b(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium=
 medium 1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">one would either carry native e=
ther or MPLS rather than trying to build IPv6 fast path with header options=
 @ arbitrary place,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">probably misaligning bitmasks a=
nd ultimately forcing 4K buffers on v6 option processing in silicon which m=
ay be fun but it is expensive, complex fun.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR] The propo=
sals are not as good as expected, =C2=A0or could not do it in a simple and =
inexpensive
 way! I guess this is the point.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">yupp. MPLS/Ether will be as ine=
xpensive as it can be and shares same processing block.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rg=
b(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium=
 medium 1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR] Well I th=
ink, using a preceding BIER-Specific IPv6 Address in IPv6 DA can solve
 the problem perfectly.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR] This is t=
he way SRv6/SRH do,
<b>which first introduces the fast-path processing of extension header</b>,=
 without recognition the pattern of the EHs and the TLVs, but simply =E2=80=
=98process the desired packet, and drop the undesired packet=E2=80=99!</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">BIER is neither SRv6 nor SRH so=
 your point here is?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">BIER is a L2.5 hop-by-hop multi=
cast switching technology that should be tunneled otherwise. v6 enaps (wher=
e we really abuse v6 as L1 transport) is only justified if ether/mpls canno=
t be implemented but chips can do very
 simple v6 processing and there is not high throughput requirement (albeit =
one could build bierin6 fast-path in silicon obviously). Obviously bierin6 =
gives you the nice trick to tunnel it to a v6 destination without establish=
ing a real tunnel but it&#39;s really
 just a by-product and not its main goal <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">--- tony <u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--000000000000bc8acd058dce0aa7--


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--0000000000002e8bf3058dceb792
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Stig,

Hooman suggested that draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier was
replacing draft-ietf-bier-mld,
but there's no replacement status in data-tracker, and you asked to
present. What's your take?

Thanks,
Greg

On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 10:14 AM Stig Venaas <stig@venaas.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I would like 10 minutes for draft-ietf-bier-mld-02.txt. Presenter is
> myself.
>
> My opinion previously was that this was ready for WGLC, and I think
> that was the agreement the last meeting. However, I would like to
> discuss one issue and potential change to the draft.
>
> Thanks,
> Stig
>
> On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 7:44 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> wrote:
> >
> > Adding the WG, Sorry hit reply only
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Hooman
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> > Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:54 PM
> > To: gjshep@gmail.com
> > Subject: RE: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello
> >
> >
> >
> > 10 min for mldp signaling over bier new version of it with tLDP.
> >
> >
> >
> > Also where are we with the last call on bier-pim-signaling? I have not
> got any more comments and did not see a last call on it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Hooman
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd
> > Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:37 PM
> > To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> > Subject: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
> >
> >
> >
> > Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
> time to this thread.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Shep
> >
> > (chairs)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BIER mailing list
> > BIER@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>

--0000000000002e8bf3058dceb792
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Stig,<div><br></div><div=
>Hooman suggested that=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(26,26,26);font-family:=
Helvetica;font-size:13px">draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier was replac=
ing=C2=A0</span><font color=3D"#1a1a1a" face=3D"Helvetica">draft-ietf-bier-=
mld, but there&#39;s no replacement status in data-tracker, and you asked t=
o present. What&#39;s your take?</font></div><div><font color=3D"#1a1a1a" f=
ace=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div><font color=3D"#1a1a1a" face=3D"Hel=
vetica">Thanks,</font></div><div><font color=3D"#1a1a1a" face=3D"Helvetica"=
>Greg</font></div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 10:14 AM Stig Venaas =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stig@venaas.com">stig@venaas.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex">Hi<br>
<br>
I would like 10 minutes for draft-ietf-bier-mld-02.txt. Presenter is myself=
.<br>
<br>
My opinion previously was that this was ready for WGLC, and I think<br>
that was the agreement the last meeting. However, I would like to<br>
discuss one issue and potential change to the draft.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Stig<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 7:44 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">hooman.bi=
dgoli@nokia.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Adding the WG, Sorry hit reply only<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hooman<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:54 PM<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail=
.com</a><br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hello<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 10 min for mldp signaling over bier new version of it with tLDP.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also where are we with the last call on bier-pim-signaling? I have not=
 got any more comments and did not see a last call on it.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hooman<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: BIER &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:37 PM<br>
&gt; To: BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bie=
r@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requeste=
d time to this thread.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Shep<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (chairs)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; BIER mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BIER@ietf.org</a><b=
r>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
To: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, Stig Venaas <stig@venaas.com>
CC: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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From: Michael McBride <michael.mcbride@futurewei.com>
To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>, Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
CC: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 19:16:48 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/hsrMERa5e7D2lLS_MJHyrn5EO7o>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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From nobody Tue Jul 16 12:21:03 2019
Return-Path: <michael.mcbride@futurewei.com>
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From: Michael McBride <michael.mcbride@futurewei.com>
To: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/_xunedK3tCXsV9sdfDMZ4IltJ0k>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
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Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com
From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 12:40:48 -0700
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To: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
Cc: Stig Venaas <stig@venaas.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/gfPBeJv5WPMpPfxm4TjXAXgTtq4>
Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Thanks, that makes more sense. :)



On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:12 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <
hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg
>
>
>
> I do apologies if I was not clear and for any confusion
>
>
>
> IN your previous email the title was [[Bier] Call for adoption:
> draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling]
>
>
>
> What I was suggesting it that this draft has been replaced with [draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier]
> that uses RFC 7060 as per agreement with Ice and Jeffrey
>
>
>
> I did not make any comments on draft-ietf-bier-mld
>
>
>
> Please let me know if this clears up the situation, if not lets have a
> quick call.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Hooman
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 12:17 PM
> *To:* Stig Venaas <stig@venaas.com>
> *Cc:* BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
>
>
>
> Stig,
>
>
>
> Hooman suggested that draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier was
> replacing draft-ietf-bier-mld, but there's no replacement status in
> data-tracker, and you asked to present. What's your take?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 10:14 AM Stig Venaas <stig@venaas.com> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I would like 10 minutes for draft-ietf-bier-mld-02.txt. Presenter is
> myself..
>
> My opinion previously was that this was ready for WGLC, and I think
> that was the agreement the last meeting. However, I would like to
> discuss one issue and potential change to the draft.
>
> Thanks,
> Stig
>
> On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 7:44 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> wrote:
> >
> > Adding the WG, Sorry hit reply only
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Hooman
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> > Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:54 PM
> > To: gjshep@gmail..com <gjshep@gmail.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello
> >
> >
> >
> > 10 min for mldp signaling over bier new version of it with tLDP.
> >
> >
> >
> > Also where are we with the last call on bier-pim-signaling? I have not
> got any more comments and did not see a last call on it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Hooman
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd
> > Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:37 PM
> > To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> > Subject: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
> >
> >
> >
> > Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
> time to this thread.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Shep
> >
> > (chairs)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BIER mailing list
> > BIER@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>
>

--000000000000630419058dd18ed4
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks, that makes more sense. :)<div><br></div><div><br><=
/div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_a=
ttr">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:12 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com">hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-col=
or:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-CA">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-1208251802436505402WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hi Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I do apologies if I was not clear and for any =
confusion
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>IN your previous email the title was [[Bier] C=
all for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling]
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>What I was suggesting it that this draft has b=
een replaced with [</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helveti=
ca,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier] =
that
 uses RFC 7060 as per agreement with Ice and Jeffrey <u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I did not make any comments on draft-ietf-bier=
-mld<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Please let me know if this clears up the situa=
tion, if not lets have a quick call.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hooman<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> BIER &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Shepherd<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 12:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Stig Venaas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stig@venaas.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">stig@venaas.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">b=
ier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Stig,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hooman suggested that=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:=
10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">draft-hb-bier-ml=
dp-signaling-over-bier was replacing=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-family=
:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,26,26)">draft-ietf-bier-mld,
 but there&#39;s no replacement status in data-tracker, and you asked to pr=
esent. What&#39;s your take?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(26,26,26)">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(26,26,26)">Greg</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 10:14 AM Stig Venaas &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:stig@venaas.com" target=3D"_blank">stig@venaas.com</a>&gt; w=
rote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.=
8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi<br>
<br>
I would like 10 minutes for draft-ietf-bier-mld-02.txt. Presenter is myself=
..<br>
<br>
My opinion previously was that this was ready for WGLC, and I think<br>
that was the agreement the last meeting. However, I would like to<br>
discuss one issue and potential change to the draft.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Stig<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 7:44 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">hooman.bi=
dgoli@nokia.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Adding the WG, Sorry hit reply only<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hooman<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:54 PM<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail=
..com</a><br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hello<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 10 min for mldp signaling over bier new version of it with tLDP.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also where are we with the last call on bier-pim-signaling? I have not=
 got any more comments and did not see a last call on it.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hooman<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: BIER &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:37 PM<br>
&gt; To: BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bie=
r@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requeste=
d time to this thread.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Shep<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (chairs)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; BIER mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BIER@ietf.org</a><b=
r>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--000000000000630419058dd18ed4--


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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for your review (below).
Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (unicast to this gmail
address).

IETF 105, Montreal
BIER WG Agenda

WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride
- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
- requirements draft.
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
  draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:

> Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
> time to this thread.
>
> Thanks,
> Shep
> (chairs)
>

--0000000000004e3c85058dd1d06d
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">I just uploaded the first draft agenda. H=
ere it is for your review (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to=
 me directly (unicast to this gmail address).<div><br></div><div><div>IETF =
105, Montreal</div><div>BIER WG Agenda</div><div><br></div><div>WG Status U=
pdate 15mins, chairs</div><div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jef=
frey Zhang</div><div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman=
 Bidgoli</div><div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dir=
k Trossen</div><div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div><div>d=
raft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div><div>draft-ietf-bier-mld=
-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div><div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min,=
 Mike McBride</div><div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides=
, based on the above=C2=A0</div><div>- requirements draft.</div><div>=C2=A0=
 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div><div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-=
isis-extension-00</div><div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div><div>=
=C2=A0 draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div></div></div></div><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8,=
 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com">gjs=
hep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:soli=
d;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Ple=
ase send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested time t=
o this thread.<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Shep</div><div>(chairs)=
</div></div>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000004e3c85058dd1d06d--


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References: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8DC468@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> <DM5PR05MB3548E853C20E03CC58C7956BD4F10@DM5PR05MB3548.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <MWHPR05MB32792FD6E09E4444B8DF45C3ACF30@MWHPR05MB3279.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8DD5B0@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> <DM5PR05MB3548F4EFF3EFC0CCDA3FDE73D4F20@DM5PR05MB3548.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8DD87A@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> <DM5PR05MB354819A911C930C1B8519CD4D4F20@DM5PR05MB3548.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <DM5PR05MB3548637A9F8CBB1CB70BE3E6D4CD0@DM5PR05MB3548.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CAG9=0bJyYGhmLnm8CVk904EcouaW7VCP7KTvuciWc57NuiFDpQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+wi2hNW4CbKgG1qgiaKqeGsz4GjS7hLkSDWH1yu4VFWfg2C5A@mail.gmail.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8EAFB1@nkgeml514-mbs.china.huawei.com> <CA+wi2hNZVEmUGBunc1YD5JAG7xtNnCf5hgzQ8FuSYOfJw2OcZg@mail.gmail.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8F1681@nkgeml514-mbs.china.huawei.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8F19ED@nkgeml514-mbs.china.huawei.com> <CA+wi2hM=xME5-nYCP1xkfMx7+SwSQUtSXqnywBaC9Vamx+rzEA@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB31500D98A77FBCCF7FC907C7F4CE0@MN2PR13MB3150.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR13MB31500D98A77FBCCF7FC907C7F4CE0@MN2PR13MB3150.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com
From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 13:00:54 -0700
Message-ID: <CABFReBroQ9085fu+nu383H9iii_J7n3gvNkd9N+43CFqJn0vsg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Michael McBride <michael.mcbride@futurewei.com>
Cc: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>, Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>,  "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>,  "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/8GiL4-GggTs0Xk1OtEfXKIcNrw0>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Thanks Mike. That's exactly what I had in mind. Take a look at the draft
agenda I just sent.

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:17 PM Michael McBride <
michael.mcbride@futurewei.com> wrote:

> We better ask for a bit more time for bier-ipv6-requirements discussion
> then. Perhaps put it at the end again and we will use whatever time is
> available. I=E2=80=99ll lead it.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> mike
>
>
>
> *From:* Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:29 AM
> *To:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
> *Cc:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Senthil Dhanaraj <
> senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>;
> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>;
> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>
>
>
> To close this thread the discussion needs to focus on the requirements
> draft during IETF and on this mailing list first and we see what comes ou=
t
> of that and accordingly the drafts will evolve ...
>
>
>
> I have many observations towards the req' draft and I expect a lively
> discussion. If I find time I may fire off something to the list before IE=
TF
> along those lines ...
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> --- tony
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 3:31 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Sorry, the picture didn=E2=80=99t show in the list.
>
> I re-write in text:
>
>
>
> -------Solution Using NH=3DBIER (draft-zhang-bier-bierin6)-------
>
> Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA)                            //Step 0
>
> Switch(Result)
>
>   Case Local Interface IPv6 Address:               //Step 1
>
>     If packet is (NH=3DBIER)                         //Step 2 (*A*)
>
>         Process it
>
>     Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d & Last_NH=3DBIER)  //Step 3
>
>         Process it
>
>     Else If packet is (NH=3DXXXX)                    //Step 4 (*B*)
>
>         Process it
>
>     Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d & Last_NH=3DXXXX)  //Step 5
>
>         Process it
>
>     Else If packet is (NH=3DYYYY)                    //Step 6 (*C*)
>
>         Process it
>
>     Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d & Last_NH=3DYYYY)  //Step 7
>
>         Process it
>
>     Else
>
>         Do normal things as usual                  //Step 8 (*D*)
>
>   Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Address
>
>       Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.
>
>
>
> (A) need 2~3 steps!
>
> (B) need 4~5 steps!
>
> (C) need 6~7 steps!
>
> (D) need 8 steps!
>
>
>
>
>
> -------Solution Using EH and
> End.BIER(draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation)-------
>
> Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA)                                   //Step 0
>
> Switch(Result)
>
>   Case End.BIER:                                          //Step 1
>
>     IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4  //Step 2(=
A)
>
>          Process it
>
>     ELSE IF (NH=3DICMPv6) or (NH=3D60 and Dest_NH=3DICMPv6)
>
>          Send to CPU.
>
>     ELSE
>
>          Drop the packet.
>
>   Case End.XXXX:                                         //Step 1
>
>     IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(B=
)
>
>         Process it
>
>     ELSE
>
>         Drop the packet
>
>  Case End.YYYY:                                          //Step 1
>
>     IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(C=
)
>
>         Process it
>
>     ELSE
>
>         Drop the packet
>
>   Case Local Interface IPv6 Address:                     //Step 1
>
>         Do normal things as usual                        //Step 2(D)
>
>   Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Address
>
>         Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.
>
>
>
> (A) need 2 steps!
>
> (B) need 2 steps!
>
> (C) need 2 steps!
>
> (D) need 2 steps!
>
>
>
>
>
> -------Repeat the advantages-------
>
> The least impact:  Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=E2=80=99t im=
pact
> other cases.
>
> The most efficient:  Do not need walking through EH ---- only check the
> first EH.
>
> The most extensible to support features in the future:   Combine with
> Routing Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation, AH or ESP.  Support Multiple BI=
ER
> TLVs in a single Destination Options header. etc.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Jingrong.
>
>
>
> *From:* BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xiejingrong
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 5:29 PM
> *To:* Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <
> zzhang@juniper.net>
> *Cc:* Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>; BIER WG <
> bier@ietf.org>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda <
> prz@juniper.net>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D
> 40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>
>
>
> Hi Tony, Jeffrey:
>
> Let=E2=80=99s f2f in BIER session at Montreal.
>
> Here is a page I think useful to understand the difference between Layer-=
4
> solution(left) and Layer-3 solution(right).
>
> That=E2=80=99s why I think use of a preceding End.BIER is most efficient =
(for BIER
> forwarding), least impact (to exist functions), and most extensible for
> future functions.
>
>
>
> The least impact:  Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=E2=80=99t im=
pact
> other cases.
>
> The most efficient:  Do not need walking through EH ---- only check the
> first EH.
>
> The most extensible to support features in the future:   Combine with
> Routing Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation, AH or ESP.  Support Multiple BI=
ER
> TLVs in a single Destination Options header. etc.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Jingrong
>
>
>
> *From:* Tony Przygienda [mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com <tonysietf@gmail.com>=
]
>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2019 11:58 PM
> *To:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
> *Cc:* Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>; Jeffrey
> (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; BIER WG <
> bier@ietf.org>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda <
> prz@juniper.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:39 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Please see my comments below:
>
>
>
> *From:* Tony Przygienda [mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2019 3:04 PM
> *To:* Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>;
> Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>;
> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>
>
>
> if your router can do BIER fast path IPv6 is not an interesting option no
> matter which draft.
>
> [XJR] That=E2=80=99s not true. The interest in BIER-IPv6-fast-path is str=
ong.
> There is no problem of =E2=80=9Cinterest=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Crequirement=
=E2=80=9D. The problem is the lack
> of convinced  =E2=80=9Ctechnology=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Csolution=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
> enlighten me where you saw that except being personally convinced it's
> cool ... And what is the specific reason customer would want that
> complexity/cost of v6 option processing silicon compared to ether/mpls
> encaps.
>
>
>
> one would either carry native ether or MPLS rather than trying to build
> IPv6 fast path with header options @ arbitrary place,
>
> probably misaligning bitmasks and ultimately forcing 4K buffers on v6
> option processing in silicon which may be fun but it is expensive, comple=
x
> fun.
>
> [XJR] The proposals are not as good as expected,  or could not do it in a
> simple and inexpensive way! I guess this is the point.
>
>
>
> yupp. MPLS/Ether will be as inexpensive as it can be and shares same
> processing block.
>
>
>
> [XJR] Well I think, using a preceding BIER-Specific IPv6 Address in IPv6
> DA can solve the problem perfectly.
>
> [XJR] This is the way SRv6/SRH do, *which first introduces the fast-path
> processing of extension header*, without recognition the pattern of the
> EHs and the TLVs, but simply =E2=80=98process the desired packet, and dro=
p the
> undesired packet=E2=80=99!
>
>
>
> BIER is neither SRv6 nor SRH so your point here is?
>
>
>
> BIER is a L2.5 hop-by-hop multicast switching technology that should be
> tunneled otherwise. v6 enaps (where we really abuse v6 as L1 transport) i=
s
> only justified if ether/mpls cannot be implemented but chips can do very
> simple v6 processing and there is not high throughput requirement (albeit
> one could build bierin6 fast-path in silicon obviously). Obviously bierin=
6
> gives you the nice trick to tunnel it to a v6 destination without
> establishing a real tunnel but it's really just a by-product and not its
> main goal
>
>
>
> --- tony
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks Mike. That&#39;s exactly what I had in mind. Take a=
 look at the draft agenda I just sent.=C2=A0</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:17 P=
M Michael McBride &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael.mcbride@futurewei.com">mich=
ael.mcbride@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-lef=
t-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_1911915935813033854WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We better ask for a bit more time for bier-ipv6-requ=
irements discussion then. Perhaps put it at the end again and we will use w=
hatever time is available. I=E2=80=99ll lead it.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">mike<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tony Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
onysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhan=
araj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-=
bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; =
Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">=
prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40juniper.net@dmarc.ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">To close this thread the discussion needs to focus o=
n the requirements draft during IETF and on this mailing list first and we =
see what comes out of that and accordingly the drafts will evolve ...
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have many observations towards the req&#39; draft =
and I expect a lively discussion. If I find time I may fire off something t=
o the list before IETF along those lines ...
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thanks <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--- tony <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 3:31 AM Xiejingrong &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.=
8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sorry, the picture didn=E2=80=99t =
show in the list.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I re-write in text:</span><span><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">-------Solution Using NH=3DBIER (d=
raft-zhang-bier-bierin6)-------</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA)=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 //Step 0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Switch(Result)</span><span><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0 Case Local Interface IPv6 A=
ddress:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 1</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If packet is (N=
H=3DBIER)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 //Step 2 (*A*)</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Else if packet =
is (NH=3Da/b/c/d &amp; Last_NH=3DBIER)=C2=A0 //Step 3</span><span><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Else If packet =
is (NH=3DXXXX)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 4 (*B*)</span=
><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Else if packet =
is (NH=3Da/b/c/d &amp; Last_NH=3DXXXX)=C2=A0 //Step 5</span><span><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Else If packet =
is (NH=3DYYYY)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 6 (*C*)</span=
><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Else if packet =
is (NH=3Da/b/c/d &amp; Last_NH=3DYYYY) =C2=A0//Step 7</span><span><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Else
</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Do normal things as usual=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Ste=
p 8 (*D*)</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0 Case Non-Local Routable IPv=
6 Address</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Do =
normal routing and forwarding as usual.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(A) need 2~3 steps!</span><span><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(B) need 4~5 steps!</span><span><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(C) need 6~7 steps!</span><span><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(D) need 8 steps!</span><span><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">-------Solution Using EH and End.B=
IER(draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation)-------</span><span><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA)=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 0</span><span><u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Switch(Result)</span><span><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0 Case End.BIER:=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 //Step 1</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IF NH=3D60 and =
OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4=C2=A0 //Step 2(A)</span><span><=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ELSE IF (NH=3DI=
CMPv6) or (NH=3D60 and Dest_NH=3DICMPv6)</span><span><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Send to CPU.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ELSE</span><spa=
n><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Drop the packet.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0 Case End.XXXX:=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 //Step 1</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IF NH=3D60 and =
OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(B)</span><span><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ELSE</span><spa=
n><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Drop the packet</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0Case End.YYYY:=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 //Step 1</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IF NH=3D60 and =
OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(C)</span><span><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ELSE</span><spa=
n><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Drop the packet</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0 Case Local Interface IPv6 A=
ddress:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 1</span><span=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0Do normal things as usual=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0//Step 2(D)</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0 Case Non-Local Routable IPv=
6 Address</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.</span><span><u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(A) need 2 steps!</span><span><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(B) need 2 steps!</span><span><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(C) need 2 steps!</span><span><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(D) need 2 steps!</span><span><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">-------Repeat the advantages------=
-</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The least impact:=C2=A0 Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=E2=80=
=99t impact other cases.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The most efficient:=C2=A0 Do not need walking through EH ---- only check =
the first EH.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The most extensible to support features in the future:=C2=A0=C2=A0 Combin=
e with Routing Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation,
 AH or ESP.=C2=A0 Support Multiple BIER TLVs in a single Destination Option=
s header. etc.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Thanks</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Jingrong.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span> BIER [mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier-bounces@ietf.org</=
a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 5:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tony Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; BIER WG =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt=
;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohu=
i) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Hi Tony, Jeffrey:</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Let=E2=80=99s f2f in BIER session at Montreal.</span><span><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Here is a page I think useful to understand the difference between Layer-=
4 solution(left) and Layer-3 solution(right).</span><span><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">That=E2=80=99s why I think use of a preceding End.BIER is most efficient =
(for BIER forwarding), least impact (to
 exist functions), and most extensible for future functions.</span><span><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The least impact:=C2=A0 Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=E2=80=
=99t impact other cases.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The most efficient:=C2=A0 Do not need walking through EH ---- only check =
the first EH.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The most extensible to support features in the future:=C2=A0=C2=A0 Combin=
e with Routing Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation,
 AH or ESP.=C2=A0 Support Multiple BIER TLVs in a single Destination Option=
s header. etc.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Thanks</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Jingrong</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span> Tony Przygienda [<a =
href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:tonysietf@gmai=
l.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 15, 2019 11:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey =
(Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
 BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.o=
rg</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:39 AM Xiejingrong &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@=
huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolo=
r currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Please see my comments below:</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span> Tony Przygienda [mai=
lto:<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tonysietf@gmai=
l.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 15, 2019 3:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40juniper=
.net@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;=
; Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>if your router can do BIER fast path IPv6 is n=
ot an interesting option no matter which draft.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">[XJR] That=E2=80=99s not true. The interest in BIER-IPv6-fast-path is str=
ong.=C2=A0 There is no problem of =E2=80=9Cinterest=E2=80=9D
 or =E2=80=9Crequirement=E2=80=9D. The problem is the lack of convinced =C2=
=A0=E2=80=9Ctechnology=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Csolution=E2=80=9D.</span><span>=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>enlighten me where you saw that except being p=
ersonally convinced it&#39;s cool ... And what is the specific reason custo=
mer would want that
 complexity/cost of v6 option processing silicon compared to ether/mpls enc=
aps. <u></u>
<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolo=
r currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>one would either carry native ether or MPLS ra=
ther than trying to build IPv6 fast path with header options @ arbitrary pl=
ace,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>probably misaligning bitmasks and ultimately f=
orcing 4K buffers on v6 option processing in silicon which may be fun but i=
t is expensive,
 complex fun. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">[XJR] The proposals are not as good as expected, =C2=A0or could not do it=
 in a simple and inexpensive way! I guess
 this is the point.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>yupp. MPLS/Ether will be as inexpensive as it =
can be and shares same processing block.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolo=
r currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">[XJR] Well I think, using a preceding BIER-Specific IPv6 Address in IPv6 =
DA can solve the problem perfectly.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">[XJR] This is the way SRv6/SRH do,
<b>which first introduces the fast-path processing of extension header</b>,=
 without recognition the pattern of the EHs and the TLVs, but simply =E2=80=
=98process the desired packet, and drop the undesired packet=E2=80=99!</spa=
n><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>BIER is neither SRv6 nor SRH so your point her=
e is?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>BIER is a L2.5 hop-by-hop multicast switching =
technology that should be tunneled otherwise. v6 enaps (where we really abu=
se v6 as L1 transport)
 is only justified if ether/mpls cannot be implemented but chips can do ver=
y simple v6 processing and there is not high throughput requirement (albeit=
 one could build bierin6 fast-path in silicon obviously). Obviously bierin6=
 gives you the nice trick to tunnel
 it to a v6 destination without establishing a real tunnel but it&#39;s rea=
lly just a by-product and not its main goal
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>--- tony
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
BIER mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BIER@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000003e1816058dd1d6f9--


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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 14:49:00 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+wi2hNqSLAdSoYUnhp5e_L4KJE0iydRRNcb7C6D0YQFQM6wdQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Cc: Michael McBride <michael.mcbride@futurewei.com>, Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>,  BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>,  Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>,  "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>,  "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/zXVA2NCiKaZDIivCbVW6F9CPQBo>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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concur, I see a longish discussion there ...

My usual prescient co-chair arranged accordingly I see ;-)

--- tony


On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 1:01 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Mike. That's exactly what I had in mind. Take a look at the draft
> agenda I just sent.
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:17 PM Michael McBride <
> michael.mcbride@futurewei.com> wrote:
>
>> We better ask for a bit more time for bier-ipv6-requirements discussion
>> then. Perhaps put it at the end again and we will use whatever time is
>> available. I=E2=80=99ll lead it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> mike
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:29 AM
>> *To:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
>> *Cc:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Senthil Dhanaraj <
>> senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>;
>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>;
>> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>>
>>
>>
>> To close this thread the discussion needs to focus on the requirements
>> draft during IETF and on this mailing list first and we see what comes o=
ut
>> of that and accordingly the drafts will evolve ...
>>
>>
>>
>> I have many observations towards the req' draft and I expect a lively
>> discussion. If I find time I may fire off something to the list before I=
ETF
>> along those lines ...
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> --- tony
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 3:31 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, the picture didn=E2=80=99t show in the list.
>>
>> I re-write in text:
>>
>>
>>
>> -------Solution Using NH=3DBIER (draft-zhang-bier-bierin6)-------
>>
>> Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA)                            //Step 0
>>
>> Switch(Result)
>>
>>   Case Local Interface IPv6 Address:               //Step 1
>>
>>     If packet is (NH=3DBIER)                         //Step 2 (*A*)
>>
>>         Process it
>>
>>     Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d & Last_NH=3DBIER)  //Step 3
>>
>>         Process it
>>
>>     Else If packet is (NH=3DXXXX)                    //Step 4 (*B*)
>>
>>         Process it
>>
>>     Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d & Last_NH=3DXXXX)  //Step 5
>>
>>         Process it
>>
>>     Else If packet is (NH=3DYYYY)                    //Step 6 (*C*)
>>
>>         Process it
>>
>>     Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d & Last_NH=3DYYYY)  //Step 7
>>
>>         Process it
>>
>>     Else
>>
>>         Do normal things as usual                  //Step 8 (*D*)
>>
>>   Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Address
>>
>>       Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.
>>
>>
>>
>> (A) need 2~3 steps!
>>
>> (B) need 4~5 steps!
>>
>> (C) need 6~7 steps!
>>
>> (D) need 8 steps!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------Solution Using EH and
>> End.BIER(draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation)-------
>>
>> Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA)                                   //Step 0
>>
>> Switch(Result)
>>
>>   Case End.BIER:                                          //Step 1
>>
>>     IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4  //Step 2=
(A)
>>
>>          Process it
>>
>>     ELSE IF (NH=3DICMPv6) or (NH=3D60 and Dest_NH=3DICMPv6)
>>
>>          Send to CPU.
>>
>>     ELSE
>>
>>          Drop the packet.
>>
>>   Case End.XXXX:                                         //Step 1
>>
>>     IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(=
B)
>>
>>         Process it
>>
>>     ELSE
>>
>>         Drop the packet
>>
>>  Case End.YYYY:                                          //Step 1
>>
>>     IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(=
C)
>>
>>         Process it
>>
>>     ELSE
>>
>>         Drop the packet
>>
>>   Case Local Interface IPv6 Address:                     //Step 1
>>
>>         Do normal things as usual                        //Step 2(D)
>>
>>   Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Address
>>
>>         Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.
>>
>>
>>
>> (A) need 2 steps!
>>
>> (B) need 2 steps!
>>
>> (C) need 2 steps!
>>
>> (D) need 2 steps!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------Repeat the advantages-------
>>
>> The least impact:  Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=E2=80=99t i=
mpact
>> other cases.
>>
>> The most efficient:  Do not need walking through EH ---- only check the
>> first EH.
>>
>> The most extensible to support features in the future:   Combine with
>> Routing Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation, AH or ESP.  Support Multiple B=
IER
>> TLVs in a single Destination Options header. etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jingrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xiejingrong
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 5:29 PM
>> *To:* Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <
>> zzhang@juniper.net>
>> *Cc:* Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>; BIER WG <
>> bier@ietf.org>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda <
>> prz@juniper.net>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D
>> 40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tony, Jeffrey:
>>
>> Let=E2=80=99s f2f in BIER session at Montreal.
>>
>> Here is a page I think useful to understand the difference between
>> Layer-4 solution(left) and Layer-3 solution(right).
>>
>> That=E2=80=99s why I think use of a preceding End.BIER is most efficient=
 (for
>> BIER forwarding), least impact (to exist functions), and most extensible
>> for future functions.
>>
>>
>>
>> The least impact:  Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=E2=80=99t i=
mpact
>> other cases.
>>
>> The most efficient:  Do not need walking through EH ---- only check the
>> first EH.
>>
>> The most extensible to support features in the future:   Combine with
>> Routing Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation, AH or ESP.  Support Multiple B=
IER
>> TLVs in a single Destination Options header. etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jingrong
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Tony Przygienda [mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com <tonysietf@gmail.com=
>]
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2019 11:58 PM
>> *To:* Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
>> *Cc:* Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>; Jeffrey
>> (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; BIER WG <
>> bier@ietf.org>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda <
>> prz@juniper.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:39 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Please see my comments below:
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Tony Przygienda [mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2019 3:04 PM
>> *To:* Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>;
>> Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>;
>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
>>
>>
>>
>> if your router can do BIER fast path IPv6 is not an interesting option n=
o
>> matter which draft.
>>
>> [XJR] That=E2=80=99s not true. The interest in BIER-IPv6-fast-path is st=
rong.
>> There is no problem of =E2=80=9Cinterest=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Crequiremen=
t=E2=80=9D. The problem is the lack
>> of convinced  =E2=80=9Ctechnology=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Csolution=E2=80=9D=
.
>>
>>
>>
>> enlighten me where you saw that except being personally convinced it's
>> cool ... And what is the specific reason customer would want that
>> complexity/cost of v6 option processing silicon compared to ether/mpls
>> encaps.
>>
>>
>>
>> one would either carry native ether or MPLS rather than trying to build
>> IPv6 fast path with header options @ arbitrary place,
>>
>> probably misaligning bitmasks and ultimately forcing 4K buffers on v6
>> option processing in silicon which may be fun but it is expensive, compl=
ex
>> fun.
>>
>> [XJR] The proposals are not as good as expected,  or could not do it in =
a
>> simple and inexpensive way! I guess this is the point.
>>
>>
>>
>> yupp. MPLS/Ether will be as inexpensive as it can be and shares same
>> processing block.
>>
>>
>>
>> [XJR] Well I think, using a preceding BIER-Specific IPv6 Address in IPv6
>> DA can solve the problem perfectly.
>>
>> [XJR] This is the way SRv6/SRH do, *which first introduces the fast-path
>> processing of extension header*, without recognition the pattern of the
>> EHs and the TLVs, but simply =E2=80=98process the desired packet, and dr=
op the
>> undesired packet=E2=80=99!
>>
>>
>>
>> BIER is neither SRv6 nor SRH so your point here is?
>>
>>
>>
>> BIER is a L2.5 hop-by-hop multicast switching technology that should be
>> tunneled otherwise. v6 enaps (where we really abuse v6 as L1 transport) =
is
>> only justified if ether/mpls cannot be implemented but chips can do very
>> simple v6 processing and there is not high throughput requirement (albei=
t
>> one could build bierin6 fast-path in silicon obviously). Obviously bieri=
n6
>> gives you the nice trick to tunnel it to a v6 destination without
>> establishing a real tunnel but it's really just a by-product and not its
>> main goal
>>
>>
>>
>> --- tony
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BIER mailing list
>> BIER@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>concur, I see a longish discussion there ... <br></di=
v><div><br></div><div>My usual prescient co-chair arranged accordingly I se=
e ;-)<br></div><div><br></div><div>--- tony <br></div><div><br></div></div>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue=
, Jul 16, 2019 at 1:01 PM Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.=
com">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks Mike. That&#39;s exactly what =
I had in mind. Take a look at the draft agenda I just sent.=C2=A0</div><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Ju=
l 16, 2019 at 12:17 PM Michael McBride &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael.mcbrid=
e@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">michael.mcbride@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wr=
ote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_7299111242162794642gmail-m_1911915935813033854WordSec=
tion1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We better ask for a bit more time for bier-ipv6-requ=
irements discussion then. Perhaps put it at the end again and we will use w=
hatever time is available. I=E2=80=99ll lead it.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">mike<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tony Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
onysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhan=
araj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-=
bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; =
Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">=
prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40juniper.net@dmarc.ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">To close this thread the discussion needs to focus o=
n the requirements draft during IETF and on this mailing list first and we =
see what comes out of that and accordingly the drafts will evolve ...
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have many observations towards the req&#39; draft =
and I expect a lively discussion. If I find time I may fire off something t=
o the list before IETF along those lines ...
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thanks <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--- tony <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 3:31 AM Xiejingrong &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left:1pt soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0=
in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sorry, the picture didn=E2=80=99t =
show in the list.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I re-write in text:</span><span><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">-------Solution Using NH=3DBIER (d=
raft-zhang-bier-bierin6)-------</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA)=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 //Step 0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Switch(Result)</span><span><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0 Case Local Interface IPv6 A=
ddress:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 1</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If packet is (N=
H=3DBIER)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 //Step 2 (*A*)</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Else if packet =
is (NH=3Da/b/c/d &amp; Last_NH=3DBIER)=C2=A0 //Step 3</span><span><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Else If packet =
is (NH=3DXXXX)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 4 (*B*)</span=
><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Else if packet =
is (NH=3Da/b/c/d &amp; Last_NH=3DXXXX)=C2=A0 //Step 5</span><span><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Else If packet =
is (NH=3DYYYY)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 6 (*C*)</span=
><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Else if packet =
is (NH=3Da/b/c/d &amp; Last_NH=3DYYYY) =C2=A0//Step 7</span><span><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Else
</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Do normal things as usual=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Ste=
p 8 (*D*)</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0 Case Non-Local Routable IPv=
6 Address</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Do =
normal routing and forwarding as usual.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(A) need 2~3 steps!</span><span><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(B) need 4~5 steps!</span><span><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(C) need 6~7 steps!</span><span><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(D) need 8 steps!</span><span><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">-------Solution Using EH and End.B=
IER(draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation)-------</span><span><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA)=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 0</span><span><u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Switch(Result)</span><span><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0 Case End.BIER:=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 //Step 1</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IF NH=3D60 and =
OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4=C2=A0 //Step 2(A)</span><span><=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ELSE IF (NH=3DI=
CMPv6) or (NH=3D60 and Dest_NH=3DICMPv6)</span><span><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Send to CPU.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ELSE</span><spa=
n><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Drop the packet.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0 Case End.XXXX:=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 //Step 1</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IF NH=3D60 and =
OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(B)</span><span><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ELSE</span><spa=
n><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Drop the packet</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0Case End.YYYY:=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 //Step 1</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IF NH=3D60 and =
OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(C)</span><span><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Process it</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ELSE</span><spa=
n><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Drop the packet</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0 Case Local Interface IPv6 A=
ddress:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 //Step 1</span><span=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0Do normal things as usual=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0//Step 2(D)</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0 Case Non-Local Routable IPv=
6 Address</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.</span><span><u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(A) need 2 steps!</span><span><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(B) need 2 steps!</span><span><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(C) need 2 steps!</span><span><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">(D) need 2 steps!</span><span><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">-------Repeat the advantages------=
-</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The least impact:=C2=A0 Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=E2=80=
=99t impact other cases.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The most efficient:=C2=A0 Do not need walking through EH ---- only check =
the first EH.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The most extensible to support features in the future:=C2=A0=C2=A0 Combin=
e with Routing Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation,
 AH or ESP.=C2=A0 Support Multiple BIER TLVs in a single Destination Option=
s header. etc.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Thanks</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Jingrong.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top:1pt solid;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span> BIER [mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier-bounces@ietf.org</=
a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 5:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tony Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; BIER WG =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt=
;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohu=
i) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Hi Tony, Jeffrey:</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Let=E2=80=99s f2f in BIER session at Montreal.</span><span><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Here is a page I think useful to understand the difference between Layer-=
4 solution(left) and Layer-3 solution(right).</span><span><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">That=E2=80=99s why I think use of a preceding End.BIER is most efficient =
(for BIER forwarding), least impact (to
 exist functions), and most extensible for future functions.</span><span><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The least impact:=C2=A0 Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=E2=80=
=99t impact other cases.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The most efficient:=C2=A0 Do not need walking through EH ---- only check =
the first EH.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">The most extensible to support features in the future:=C2=A0=C2=A0 Combin=
e with Routing Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation,
 AH or ESP.=C2=A0 Support Multiple BIER TLVs in a single Destination Option=
s header. etc.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Thanks</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Jingrong</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span> Tony Przygienda [<a =
href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:tonysietf@gmai=
l.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 15, 2019 11:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey =
(Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
 BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.o=
rg</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:39 AM Xiejingrong &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@=
huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left:1pt soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-=
color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Please see my comments below:</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">=C2=A0</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span> Tony Przygienda [mai=
lto:<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tonysietf@gmai=
l.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 15, 2019 3:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40juniper=
.net@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;=
; Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">prz@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>if your router can do BIER fast path IPv6 is n=
ot an interesting option no matter which draft.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">[XJR] That=E2=80=99s not true. The interest in BIER-IPv6-fast-path is str=
ong.=C2=A0 There is no problem of =E2=80=9Cinterest=E2=80=9D
 or =E2=80=9Crequirement=E2=80=9D. The problem is the lack of convinced =C2=
=A0=E2=80=9Ctechnology=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Csolution=E2=80=9D.</span><span>=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>enlighten me where you saw that except being p=
ersonally convinced it&#39;s cool ... And what is the specific reason custo=
mer would want that
 complexity/cost of v6 option processing silicon compared to ether/mpls enc=
aps. <u></u>
<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left:1pt soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-=
color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>one would either carry native ether or MPLS ra=
ther than trying to build IPv6 fast path with header options @ arbitrary pl=
ace,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>probably misaligning bitmasks and ultimately f=
orcing 4K buffers on v6 option processing in silicon which may be fun but i=
t is expensive,
 complex fun. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">[XJR] The proposals are not as good as expected, =C2=A0or could not do it=
 in a simple and inexpensive way! I guess
 this is the point.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>yupp. MPLS/Ether will be as inexpensive as it =
can be and shares same processing block.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left:1pt soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-=
color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">[XJR] Well I think, using a preceding BIER-Specific IPv6 Address in IPv6 =
DA can solve the problem perfectly.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">[XJR] This is the way SRv6/SRH do,
<b>which first introduces the fast-path processing of extension header</b>,=
 without recognition the pattern of the EHs and the TLVs, but simply =E2=80=
=98process the desired packet, and drop the undesired packet=E2=80=99!</spa=
n><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>BIER is neither SRv6 nor SRH so your point her=
e is?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>BIER is a L2.5 hop-by-hop multicast switching =
technology that should be tunneled otherwise. v6 enaps (where we really abu=
se v6 as L1 transport)
 is only justified if ether/mpls cannot be implemented but chips can do ver=
y simple v6 processing and there is not high throughput requirement (albeit=
 one could build bierin6 fast-path in silicon obviously). Obviously bierin6=
 gives you the nice trick to tunnel
 it to a v6 destination without establishing a real tunnel but it&#39;s rea=
lly just a by-product and not its main goal
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>--- tony
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
BIER mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BIER@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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Just updated the agenda:

IETF 105, Montreal
BIER WG Agenda

WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03
 draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang
draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride
- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
- requirements draft.
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
  draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:

> I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for your review
> (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (unicast to
> this gmail address).
>
> IETF 105, Montreal
> BIER WG Agenda
>
> WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
> draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
> draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
> draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
> draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
> draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
> draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride
> - additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
> - requirements draft.
>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
>   draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00
>
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
>> time to this thread.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shep
>> (chairs)
>>
>

--000000000000740378058de1df26
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Just updated the agenda:=
<div><br></div><div><div>IETF 105, Montreal</div><div>BIER WG Agenda</div><=
div><br></div><div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div><div>draft-zzhang-b=
ier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div><div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signa=
ling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div><div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-=
http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div><div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam =
10min, Greg Mirsky</div><div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert=
</div><div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div><div>draft-zhang=
-bier-bierin6-03 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, =
Sandy Zhang</div><div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBrid=
e</div><div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on t=
he above=C2=A0</div><div>- requirements draft.</div><div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-b=
ier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div><div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extensi=
on-00</div><div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div><div>=C2=A0 draft-g=
eng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div></div></div></div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019=
 at 12:59 PM Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com">gjshep@g=
mail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;bor=
der-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for your review=
 (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (unicast to =
this gmail address).<div><br></div><div><div>IETF 105, Montreal</div><div>B=
IER WG Agenda</div><div><br></div><div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div=
><div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div><div>draf=
t-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div><div>draft-=
ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div><div>draft=
-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div><div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10=
min, Toerless Eckert</div><div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</=
div><div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride</div><div>-=
 additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above=C2=
=A0</div><div>- requirements draft.</div><div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-en=
capsulation-02</div><div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>=
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div><div>=C2=A0 draft-geng-bier-ip=
v6-inter-domain-00</div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Sh=
epherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gma=
il.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;borde=
r-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Please sen=
d agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested time to this =
thread.<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Shep</div><div>(chairs)</div><=
/div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000740378058de1df26--


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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
CC: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Hi
Waterfall model? Requirements first, then find solutions?
I am afraid that's not the right way.
Requirement draft does not make clear itself until proposals are compared c=
arefully.
Let's see how we get here:
    1. draft-xu-bier-encapsulation-06 ------(Sep. 2014)
    2. draft-pfister-bier-over-ipv6-01 -------(Sep. 2016)
    3. draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03  ----------(Oct. 2017)
    4. draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02-----(Apr. 2018)
    5. draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements-01 ----(Apr. 2019)

I welcome any comments and questions on any proposed drafts, always.
The authors of this draft don't think so ?
Why the raised questions and discussions be eager to close ?
Clearly there are many questions still open, while the authors are on the l=
ist but never respond.

Thanks
Jingrong

________________________________
From: Tony Przygienda [tonysietf@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 23:28
To: Xiejingrong
Cc: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Senthil Dhanaraj; BIER WG; draft-zhang-bier-bi=
erin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>

To close this thread the discussion needs to focus on the requirements draf=
t during IETF and on this mailing list first and we see what comes out of t=
hat and accordingly the drafts will evolve ...

I have many observations towards the req' draft and I expect a lively discu=
ssion. If I find time I may fire off something to the list before IETF alon=
g those lines ...

thanks

--- tony

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 3:31 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com<mailto:=
xiejingrong@huawei.com>> wrote:
Sorry, the picture didn=92t show in the list.
I re-write in text:

-------Solution Using NH=3DBIER (draft-zhang-bier-bierin6)-------
Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA)                            //Step 0
Switch(Result)
  Case Local Interface IPv6 Address:               //Step 1
    If packet is (NH=3DBIER)                         //Step 2 (*A*)
        Process it
    Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d & Last_NH=3DBIER)  //Step 3
        Process it
    Else If packet is (NH=3DXXXX)                    //Step 4 (*B*)
        Process it
    Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d & Last_NH=3DXXXX)  //Step 5
        Process it
    Else If packet is (NH=3DYYYY)                    //Step 6 (*C*)
        Process it
    Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d & Last_NH=3DYYYY)  //Step 7
        Process it
    Else
        Do normal things as usual                  //Step 8 (*D*)
  Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Address
      Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.

(A) need 2~3 steps!
(B) need 4~5 steps!
(C) need 6~7 steps!
(D) need 8 steps!


-------Solution Using EH and End.BIER(draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation)---=
----
Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA)                                   //Step 0
Switch(Result)
  Case End.BIER:                                          //Step 1
    IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4  //Step 2(A)
         Process it
    ELSE IF (NH=3DICMPv6) or (NH=3D60 and Dest_NH=3DICMPv6)
         Send to CPU.
    ELSE
         Drop the packet.
  Case End.XXXX:                                         //Step 1
    IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(B)
        Process it
    ELSE
        Drop the packet
 Case End.YYYY:                                          //Step 1
    IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8+4 //Step 2(C)
        Process it
    ELSE
        Drop the packet
  Case Local Interface IPv6 Address:                     //Step 1
        Do normal things as usual                        //Step 2(D)
  Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Address
        Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.

(A) need 2 steps!
(B) need 2 steps!
(C) need 2 steps!
(D) need 2 steps!


-------Repeat the advantages-------
The least impact:  Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=92t impact oth=
er cases.
The most efficient:  Do not need walking through EH ---- only check the fir=
st EH.
The most extensible to support features in the future:   Combine with Routi=
ng Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation, AH or ESP.  Support Multiple BIER TLVs=
 in a single Destination Options header. etc.

Thanks
Jingrong.

From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>] On =
Behalf Of Xiejingrong
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 5:29 PM
To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com<mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com>>; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net<mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>
Cc: Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com<mailto:senthil.dhanar=
aj.ietf@gmail.com>>; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>>; draft-z=
hang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org<mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>; Anton=
i Przygienda <prz@juniper.net<mailto:prz@juniper.net>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Z=
hang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org>>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>

Hi Tony, Jeffrey:
Let=92s f2f in BIER session at Montreal.
Here is a page I think useful to understand the difference between Layer-4 =
solution(left) and Layer-3 solution(right).
That=92s why I think use of a preceding End.BIER is most efficient (for BIE=
R forwarding), least impact (to exist functions), and most extensible for f=
uture functions.

The least impact:  Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=92t impact oth=
er cases.
The most efficient:  Do not need walking through EH ---- only check the fir=
st EH.
The most extensible to support features in the future:   Combine with Routi=
ng Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation, AH or ESP.  Support Multiple BIER TLVs=
 in a single Destination Options header. etc.

Thanks
Jingrong

From: Tony Przygienda [mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2019 11:58 PM
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com<mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com>>
Cc: Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com<mailto:senthil.dhanar=
aj.ietf@gmail.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.=
ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; BIER WG <bier@ietf=
.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org<mailto:draft=
-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>; Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net<mailto:pr=
z@juniper.net>>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>



On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:39 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com<mailto=
:xiejingrong@huawei.com>> wrote:
Please see my comments below:

From: Tony Przygienda [mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com<mailto:tonysietf@gmail.co=
m>]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2019 3:04 PM
To: Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com<mailto:senthil.dhanar=
aj.ietf@gmail.com>>
Cc: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:4=
0juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com<mailto:x=
iejingrong@huawei.com>>; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>>; dra=
ft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org<mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>; A=
ntoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net<mailto:prz@juniper.net>>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>

if your router can do BIER fast path IPv6 is not an interesting option no m=
atter which draft.
[XJR] That=92s not true. The interest in BIER-IPv6-fast-path is strong.  Th=
ere is no problem of =93interest=94 or =93requirement=94. The problem is th=
e lack of convinced  =93technology=94 or =93solution=94.

enlighten me where you saw that except being personally convinced it's cool=
 ... And what is the specific reason customer would want that complexity/co=
st of v6 option processing silicon compared to ether/mpls encaps.

one would either carry native ether or MPLS rather than trying to build IPv=
6 fast path with header options @ arbitrary place,
probably misaligning bitmasks and ultimately forcing 4K buffers on v6 optio=
n processing in silicon which may be fun but it is expensive, complex fun.
[XJR] The proposals are not as good as expected,  or could not do it in a s=
imple and inexpensive way! I guess this is the point.

yupp. MPLS/Ether will be as inexpensive as it can be and shares same proces=
sing block.

[XJR] Well I think, using a preceding BIER-Specific IPv6 Address in IPv6 DA=
 can solve the problem perfectly.
[XJR] This is the way SRv6/SRH do, which first introduces the fast-path pro=
cessing of extension header, without recognition the pattern of the EHs and=
 the TLVs, but simply =91process the desired packet, and drop the undesired=
 packet=92!

BIER is neither SRv6 nor SRH so your point here is?

BIER is a L2.5 hop-by-hop multicast switching technology that should be tun=
neled otherwise. v6 enaps (where we really abuse v6 as L1 transport) is onl=
y justified if ether/mpls cannot be implemented but chips can do very simpl=
e v6 processing and there is not high throughput requirement (albeit one co=
uld build bierin6 fast-path in silicon obviously). Obviously bierin6 gives =
you the nice trick to tunnel it to a v6 destination without establishing a =
real tunnel but it's really just a by-product and not its main goal

--- tony


--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8F2AD1nkgeml514mbschi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"></style>
</head>
<body fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">Hi&nbsp;
<div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;">Waterfall model=
? Requirements first, then find solutions?&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">I am afra=
id that's not the right way.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Requireme=
nt draft does not make clear itself until proposals are compared carefully.=
</span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Let's see=
 how we get here:</span></font></div>
<div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1. draft-xu-bier-e=
ncapsulation-06 ------(Sep. 2014)</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. draft-pfister-b=
ier-over-ipv6-01 -------(Sep. 2016)</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp; 3. draft-zhang-bie=
r-bierin6-03&nbsp; ----------(Oct. 2017)</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp; 4. draft-xie-bier-=
ipv6-encapsulation-02-----(Apr. 2018)</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp; 5. draft-ietf-bier=
-ipv6-requirements-01 ----(Apr. 2019)</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I welcome any comments and questions on any proposed drafts, always.</=
div>
<div>The authors of this draft don't think so ?</div>
<div>Why the raised questions and discussions be eager to close ?&nbsp;</di=
v>
<div>Clearly there are many questions still open, while the authors are on =
the list but never respond.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF871379" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si=
ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Tony Przygienda [tonysietf@gmail.co=
m]</font></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF871379" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si=
ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 23:28<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Senthil Dhanaraj; BIER WG; draft-zhang-=
bier-bierin6@ietf.org; Antoni Przygienda; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>To close this thread the discussion needs to focus on the requirements=
 draft during IETF and on this mailing list first and we see what comes out=
 of that and accordingly the drafts will evolve ...
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have many observations towards the req' draft and I expect a lively =
discussion. If I find time I may fire off something to the list before IETF=
 along those lines ...
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>thanks <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--- tony <br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 3:31 AM Xieji=
ngrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"ZH-CN">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-7369688171043148700WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sorry, the pictur=
e didn=92t show in the list.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">I re-write in tex=
t:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;<u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">-------Solution U=
sing NH=3DBIER (draft-zhang-bier-bierin6)-------<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Result =3D FIB Lo=
okup(DA)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; //Step 0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Switch(Result)<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp; Case Local=
 Interface IPv6 Address:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; //Step 1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; If packet is (NH=3DBIER)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; //Step 2 (*A*)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d &amp; Last_NH=3DBIER)&nbsp; //Step 3<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; Else If packet is (NH=3DXXXX)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; //St=
ep 4 (*B*)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d &amp; Last_NH=3DXXXX)&nbsp; //Step 5<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; Else If packet is (NH=3DYYYY)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; //St=
ep 6 (*C*)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; Else if packet is (NH=3Da/b/c/d &amp; Last_NH=3DYYYY) &nbsp;//Step 7<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; Else
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Do normal things as usual&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; //Step 8 (*D*)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp; Case Non-L=
ocal Routable IPv6 Address<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;<u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">(A) need 2~3 step=
s!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">(B) need 4~5 step=
s!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">(C) need 6~7 step=
s!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">(D) need 8 steps!=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">-------Solution U=
sing EH and End.BIER(draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation)-------</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,s=
ans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Result =3D FIB Lo=
okup(DA)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; //Step 0<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Switch(Result)<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp; Case End.B=
IER:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; //Step 1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8&#43;4&nbsp; //St=
ep 2(A)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ELSE IF (NH=3DICMPv6) or (NH=3D60 and Dest_NH=3DICMPv6)<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Send to CPU.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ELSE<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Drop the packet.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp; Case End.X=
XXX:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; //Step 1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8&#43;4 //Step 2(B=
)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ELSE<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Drop the packet<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;Case End.YY=
YY:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; //Step 1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; IF NH=3D60 and OptType1=3DBIER and OptLen1=3DHdrExtLen*8&#43;4 //Step 2(C=
)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ELSE<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Drop the packet<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp; Case Local=
 Interface IPv6 Address:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; //Ste=
p 1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Do normal things as usual&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;//Step 2(D)<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp; Case Non-L=
ocal Routable IPv6 Address<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;<u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">(A) need 2 steps!=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">(B) need 2 steps!=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">(C) need 2 steps!=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">(D) need 2 steps!=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Lucida Console&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">-------Repeat the=
 advantages-------</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">The least imp=
act:&nbsp; Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=92t impact other cases=
.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">The most effi=
cient:&nbsp; Do not need walking through EH ---- only check the first EH.<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">The most exte=
nsible to support features in the future:&nbsp;&nbsp; Combine with Routing =
Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation, AH or ESP.&nbsp; Support Multiple
 BIER TLVs in a single Destination Options header. etc.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Jingrong.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;=
<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor; bord=
er-style:solid none none; border-width:1pt medium medium; padding:3pt 0cm 0=
cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt; fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> BI=
ER [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 5:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tony Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Jeffr=
ey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">zzhang@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;; BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer">
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">prz@juni=
per.net</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40j=
uniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">40=
juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Tony, Jeff=
rey:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Let=92s f2f i=
n BIER session at Montreal.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Here is a pag=
e I think useful to understand the difference between Layer-4 solution(left=
) and Layer-3 solution(right).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">That=92s why =
I think use of a preceding End.BIER is most efficient (for BIER forwarding)=
, least impact (to exist functions), and most extensible
 for future functions.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">The least imp=
act:&nbsp; Switch-case by preceding FIB lookup doesn=92t impact other cases=
.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">The most effi=
cient:&nbsp; Do not need walking through EH ---- only check the first EH.<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">The most exte=
nsible to support features in the future:&nbsp;&nbsp; Combine with Routing =
Header(e.g., SRH), Fragmentation, AH or ESP.&nbsp; Support Multiple
 BIER TLVs in a single Destination Options header. etc.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Jingrong<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt; fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> To=
ny Przygienda [<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer">mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 15, 2019 11:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D=
40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer"=
>zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
 BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noop=
ener noreferrer">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer">
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">prz@juni=
per.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:39 A=
M Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blan=
k" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rg=
b(204,204,204); border-style:none none none solid; border-width:medium medi=
um medium 1pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Please see my=
 comments below:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;</span>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt; fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> To=
ny Przygienda [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 15, 2019 3:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Senthil Dhanaraj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">senthil.dhanaraj.ietf=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40juniper=
.net@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">40junipe=
r.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong=
@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">xiejingrong@huaw=
ei.com</a>&gt;;
 BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noop=
ener noreferrer">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer">
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org</a>; Antoni Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:prz@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">prz@juni=
per.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6=
-03&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">if your router can do BIER fast=
 path IPv6 is not an interesting option no matter which draft.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">[XJR] That=92=
s not true. The interest in BIER-IPv6-fast-path is strong.&nbsp; There is n=
o problem of =93interest=94 or =93requirement=94. The problem is
 the lack of convinced &nbsp;=93technology=94 or =93solution=94.</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">enlighten me where you saw that=
 except being personally convinced it's cool ... And what is the specific r=
eason customer would want that complexity/cost of v6 option processing sili=
con compared to ether/mpls encaps.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rg=
b(204,204,204); border-style:none none none solid; border-width:medium medi=
um medium 1pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">one would either carry native e=
ther or MPLS rather than trying to build IPv6 fast path with header options=
 @ arbitrary place,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">probably misaligning bitmasks a=
nd ultimately forcing 4K buffers on v6 option processing in silicon which m=
ay be fun but it is expensive, complex fun.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">[XJR] The pro=
posals are not as good as expected, &nbsp;or could not do it in a simple an=
d inexpensive way! I guess this is the point.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">yupp. MPLS/Ether will be as ine=
xpensive as it can be and shares same processing block.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rg=
b(204,204,204); border-style:none none none solid; border-width:medium medi=
um medium 1pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">[XJR] Well I =
think, using a preceding BIER-Specific IPv6 Address in IPv6 DA can solve th=
e problem perfectly.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">[XJR] This is=
 the way SRv6/SRH do,
<b>which first introduces the fast-path processing of extension header</b>,=
 without recognition the pattern of the EHs and the TLVs, but simply =91pro=
cess the desired packet, and drop the undesired packet=92!</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">BIER is neither SRv6 nor SRH so=
 your point here is?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">BIER is a L2.5 hop-by-hop multi=
cast switching technology that should be tunneled otherwise. v6 enaps (wher=
e we really abuse v6 as L1 transport) is only justified if ether/mpls canno=
t be implemented but chips can do very
 simple v6 processing and there is not high throughput requirement (albeit =
one could build bierin6 fast-path in silicon obviously). Obviously bierin6 =
gives you the nice trick to tunnel it to a v6 destination without establish=
ing a real tunnel but it's really
 just a by-product and not its main goal <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">--- tony <u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Hi
There are only 5 minutes left for my 4 drafts (which I had required for tim=
e slot very early).
I don't think that's good.
A better way in my opinion is that, each topic need some work begin on the =
list and shorten the time on the session.

Thanks
Jingrong

________________________________
From: BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Greg Shepherd [gjshep@gmail=
.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08
To: BIER WG
Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105

Just updated the agenda:

IETF 105, Montreal
BIER WG Agenda

WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03
 draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang
draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride
- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
- requirements draft.
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
  draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjs=
hep@gmail.com>> wrote:
I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for your review (below).=
 Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (unicast to this gmai=
l address).

IETF 105, Montreal
BIER WG Agenda

WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride
- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
- requirements draft.
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
  draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjsh=
ep@gmail.com>> wrote:
Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested tim=
e to this thread.

Thanks,
Shep
(chairs)

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<div>Hi</div>
<div>There are only 5 minutes left for my 4 drafts (which I had required fo=
r time slot very early).</div>
<div>I don't think that's good.</div>
<div>A better way in my opinion is that, each topic need some work begin on=
 the list and shorten the time on the session.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF287005" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si=
ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org] on beh=
alf of Greg Shepherd [gjshep@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Just updated the agenda:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e&nbsp;</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg=
 Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"=
noopener noreferrer">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204=
); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for you=
r review (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (uni=
cast to this gmail address).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e&nbsp;</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg =
Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
oopener noreferrer">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204=
); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, =
and requested time to this thread.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Shep</div>
<div>(chairs)</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8F2B04nkgeml514mbschi_--


From nobody Wed Jul 17 15:45:17 2019
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "bier-chairs@ietf.org" <bier-chairs@ietf.org>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Request For Comments on BIER IPv6 work and documents -- RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
Thread-Index: AdU32uDY4M7XOGV+QemdVnyRKAdECwFFhA24
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 22:44:52 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Request For Comments on BIER IPv6 work and documents -- RE: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Repost.

________________________________
From: BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Xiejingrong [xiejingrong@hu=
awei.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2019 19:29
To: BIER WG; bier-chairs@ietf.org; aretana.ietf@gmail.com
Cc: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org
Subject: [Bier] Request For Comments on BIER IPv6 work and documents -- RE:=
 Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>

Dear BIER WG:

I would prefer very much the comments on the maillist about BIER IPv6.
I think it is the way we improve and progress documents, and improve the wo=
rk of BIER WG.

There have been quite a number of BIERv6 drafts, and the WG had make it cle=
ar to work on "BIER natively in IPv6" in charter.

Also there have been a work achievement of BIERv6-requirements WG document =
since ietf104.

Also from this thread before, and from the recent BIER sessions, BIER'es ha=
ve shown enthusiasm on BIER IPv6:
a) ipv6 tunnel between non-adjacent BFRs
b) situations even between adjacent BFRs.

Also as the stated by Toerless in inetf104: We need to wait for the result =
in SRv6 arch and encap work as they consider 8200 requirements during revie=
w. It applicable to hear as well.
I think it is more clear now, since the SRv6 SRH had LC, the SRv6 Network P=
rogramming had adopted, the SRv6-via-ISIS had adopted, and many SRv6 deploy=
ments or implementations or ongoing implementations.

Request the WG to initiate the discussions/questions/comparisons on the fol=
lowing BIERv6 documents:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhang-bier-bierin6/

I guess you have many comments/suggestions/questions/comparisons. Do you ? =
 There had been 2* 40 minutes talk at Bankok and Prague BIER sessions!

Appreciate very much for your comments/suggestions/questions/comparisons!
Appreciate very much for the guidance from Chairs and the AD!

Thanks,
Jingrong



--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8F2B2Bnkgeml514mbschi_
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<body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"" fpstyle=
=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">Repost.
<div>
<div><br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF692952" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si=
ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org] on beh=
alf of Xiejingrong [xiejingrong@huawei.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 11, 2019 19:29<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG; bier-chairs@ietf.org; aretana.ietf@gmail.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bier] Request For Comments on BIER IPv6 work and documents=
 -- RE: Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Dear BI=
ER WG:</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I would=
 prefer very much the comments on the maillist about BIER IPv6.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I think=
 it is the way we improve and progress documents, and improve the work of B=
IER WG.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">There h=
ave been quite a number of BIERv6 drafts, and the WG had make it clear to w=
ork on &quot;BIER natively in IPv6&quot; in charter.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also th=
ere have been a work achievement of BIERv6-requirements WG document since i=
etf104.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also fr=
om this thread before, and from the recent BIER sessions, BIER'es have show=
n enthusiasm on BIER IPv6:</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">a) ipv6=
 tunnel between non-adjacent BFRs
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">b) situ=
ations even between adjacent BFRs.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also as=
 the stated by Toerless in inetf104: We need to wait for the result in SRv6=
 arch and encap work as they consider 8200 requirements during review. It a=
pplicable to hear as well.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I think=
 it is more clear now, since the SRv6 SRH had LC, the SRv6 Network Programm=
ing had adopted, the SRv6-via-ISIS had adopted, and many SRv6 deployments o=
r implementations or ongoing implementations.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Request=
 the WG to initiate the discussions/questions/comparisons on the following =
BIERv6 documents:</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements/</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation/</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension/</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn/</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain/</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhang-bier-bierin6/</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I guess=
 you have many comments/suggestions/questions/comparisons. Do you ?&nbsp; T=
here had been 2* 40 minutes talk at Bankok and Prague BIER sessions!</span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Appreci=
ate very much for your comments/suggestions/questions/comparisons!</span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Appreci=
ate very much for the guidance from Chairs and the AD!</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jingron=
g</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8F2B2Bnkgeml514mbschi_--


From nobody Wed Jul 17 20:10:23 2019
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments on <draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling-00>
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Subject: [Bier] Comments on <draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling-00>
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Hi
I have read the draft and think it looks far better by using multi-hop tLDP=
 session than the complex mechanism that I had not understand well in previ=
ous draft.
some comments/questions below:

3.2. EBBR procedure method

   The Egress BBR (EBBR) is connected to the mLDP domain which the root
   of the P2MP or MP2MP LSP resides on. The EBBR should accept the tLDP
   session and assign a upstream assigned label for arriving FEC.

   The EBBR should follow the [RFC7060] procedures with following
   modifications:
[XJR] the following procedures follow 7060 or 7389 ?

   - The label assigned by EBBR cannot be Implicit Null. This is to
   ensure that identity of each p2mp and/or mp2mp tunnel in BIER domain
   is uniquely distinguished.

   - The label can be assigned from a domain-wide Common Block (DCB) [I-
   D.zzhang-bess-mvpn-evpn-aggregation-label], as well as upstream
   assigned.

   - The Interface ID TLV [RFC6389]includes a new BIER sub-domain sub-
   tlv (type TBD)
[XJR] this Interface ID TLV is carried in message from EBBR(BFIR) to IBBR(B=
FERs)?

   With same token the EBBR should track all the arriving FECs and the
   IBBRs that are generating these FECs. EBBR will use this information
   to build the bier header for each set of common FEC arriving from the
   IBBRs.
[XJR] How does EBBR track the IBBRs?
[XJR] Let me imagine:
(1) IBBR(BFER) receive the mLDP Mapping from downstream LSR, and send a xxx=
 message to EBBR(BFIR).
(2) EBBR(BFIR) send a LDP Mapping message (with Upstream-Assigned Label Req=
uest TLV) to all its tLDP neighbors ?
(3) BFIR should tell the BFERs the upstrea-assigned Label, and the Sub-doma=
in, and the BFIR-id at least I guess.
Is that right ?
What's the xxx message (in case the tLDP is static configured, in case the =
tLDP is dynamicly established)?
Thinking of the information need to carry in the LDP message, there will be=
 MPLS WG be considered more.

4. Datapath Forwarding

4.1. Datapath traffic flow

   On BFIR when the MPLS label for P2MP/MP2MP LSP arrives a lookup in
   ILM table is done and the label is swapped with tLDP upstream
   assigned label. The BFIR will note all the BFERs that are interested
   in specific p2mp/mp2mp LSP (as per section 3.2). BFIR will put the
   corresponding BIER header with bit index set for all IBBRs interested
   in this P2MP LSP. BFIR will set the  BIERHeader.Proto =3D MPLS and will
   forward the BIER packet into BIER domain.
[XJR] is there a proper BFIR-id value to be mentioned ?


Thanks
Jingrong


--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB8F2C6Ankgeml514mbschi_
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<html dir=3D"ltr">
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1">
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10pt;">
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Hi</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">I have read the draft and think =
it looks far better by using multi-hop tLDP session than the complex mechan=
ism that I had not understand well in previous draft.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">some comments/questions below:</=
span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">3.2. EBBR procedure method&nbsp;=
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;The Egress BBR (EBB=
R) is connected to the mLDP domain which the root</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;of the P2MP or MP2M=
P LSP resides on. The EBBR should accept the tLDP</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;session and assign =
a upstream assigned label for arriving FEC.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;The EBBR should fol=
low the [RFC7060] procedures with following</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;modifications:</spa=
n></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR] the following procedures f=
ollow 7060 or 7389 ?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;- The label assigne=
d by EBBR cannot be Implicit Null. This is to</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;ensure that identit=
y of each p2mp and/or mp2mp tunnel in BIER domain</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;is uniquely disting=
uished.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;- The label can be =
assigned from a domain-wide Common Block (DCB) [I-</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;D.zzhang-bess-mvpn-=
evpn-aggregation-label], as well as upstream</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;assigned.</span></d=
iv>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;- The Interface ID =
TLV [RFC6389]includes a new BIER sub-domain sub-</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;tlv (type TBD)</spa=
n></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR] this Interface ID TLV is c=
arried in message from EBBR(BFIR) to IBBR(BFERs)?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;With same token the=
 EBBR should track all the arriving FECs and the</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;IBBRs that are gene=
rating these FECs. EBBR will use this information</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;to build the bier h=
eader for each set of common FEC arriving from the</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;IBBRs.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR] How does EBBR track the IB=
BRs?&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR] Let me imagine:</span></di=
v>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">(1) IBBR(BFER) receive the mLDP =
Mapping from downstream LSR, and send a xxx message to EBBR(BFIR).</span></=
div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">(2) EBBR(BFIR) send a LDP Mappin=
g message (with Upstream-Assigned Label Request TLV) to all its tLDP neighb=
ors ?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">(3) BFIR should tell the BFERs t=
he upstrea-assigned Label, and the Sub-domain, and
<font color=3D"#0000ff">the BFIR-id</font> at least I guess.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Is that right ?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">What's the xxx message (in case =
the tLDP is static configured, in case the tLDP is dynamicly established)?<=
/span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Thinking of the information need=
 to carry in the LDP message, there will be MPLS WG be considered more.</sp=
an></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">4. Datapath Forwarding</span></d=
iv>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">4.1. Datapath traffic flow</span=
></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;On BFIR when the MP=
LS label for P2MP/MP2MP LSP arrives a lookup in</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;ILM table is done a=
nd the label is swapped with tLDP upstream</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;assigned label. The=
 BFIR will note all the BFERs that are interested</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;in specific p2mp/mp=
2mp LSP (as per section 3.2). BFIR will put the</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;corresponding BIER =
header with bit index set for all IBBRs interested</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;in this P2MP LSP. B=
FIR will set the&nbsp; BIERHeader.Proto =3D MPLS and will</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;forward the BIER pa=
cket into BIER domain.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR] is there a proper BFIR-id =
value to be mentioned ?</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] Comments on <draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling-00>
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correction:
it's on draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier-00
sorry for the typo.
From:Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To:BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Date:2019-07-17 23:10:45
Subject:[Bier] Comments on

Hi
I have read the draft and think it looks far better by using multi-hop tLDP=
 session than the complex mechanism that I had not understand well in previ=
ous draft.
some comments/questions below:

3.2. EBBR procedure method

   The Egress BBR (EBBR) is connected to the mLDP domain which the root
   of the P2MP or MP2MP LSP resides on. The EBBR should accept the tLDP
   session and assign a upstream assigned label for arriving FEC.

   The EBBR should follow the [RFC7060] procedures with following
   modifications:
[XJR] the following procedures follow 7060 or 7389 ?

   - The label assigned by EBBR cannot be Implicit Null. This is to
   ensure that identity of each p2mp and/or mp2mp tunnel in BIER domain
   is uniquely distinguished.

   - The label can be assigned from a domain-wide Common Block (DCB) [I-
   D.zzhang-bess-mvpn-evpn-aggregation-label], as well as upstream
   assigned.

   - The Interface ID TLV [RFC6389]includes a new BIER sub-domain sub-
   tlv (type TBD)
[XJR] this Interface ID TLV is carried in message from EBBR(BFIR) to IBBR(B=
FERs)?

   With same token the EBBR should track all the arriving FECs and the
   IBBRs that are generating these FECs. EBBR will use this information
   to build the bier header for each set of common FEC arriving from the
   IBBRs.
[XJR] How does EBBR track the IBBRs?
[XJR] Let me imagine:
(1) IBBR(BFER) receive the mLDP Mapping from downstream LSR, and send a xxx=
 message to EBBR(BFIR).
(2) EBBR(BFIR) send a LDP Mapping message (with Upstream-Assigned Label Req=
uest TLV) to all its tLDP neighbors ?
(3) BFIR should tell the BFERs the upstrea-assigned Label, and the Sub-doma=
in, and the BFIR-id at least I guess.
Is that right ?
What's the xxx message (in case the tLDP is static configured, in case the =
tLDP is dynamicly established)?
Thinking of the information need to carry in the LDP message, there will be=
 MPLS WG be considered more.

4. Datapath Forwarding

4.1. Datapath traffic flow

   On BFIR when the MPLS label for P2MP/MP2MP LSP arrives a lookup in
   ILM table is done and the label is swapped with tLDP upstream
   assigned label. The BFIR will note all the BFERs that are interested
   in specific p2mp/mp2mp LSP (as per section 3.2). BFIR will put the
   corresponding BIER header with bit index set for all IBBRs interested
   in this P2MP LSP. BFIR will set the  BIERHeader.Proto =3D MPLS and will
   forward the BIER packet into BIER domain.
[XJR] is there a proper BFIR-id value to be mentioned ?


Thanks
Jingrong


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<div>correction: <br>
it's on draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier-00 <br>
sorry for the typo.</div>
<div></div>
<div name=3D"AnyOffice-Background-Image" style=3D"border-top:1px solid #B5C=
4DF; padding:8px">
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>From:</b>Xiejingrong &lt;xiejingrong=
@huawei.com&gt;</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>To:</b>BIER WG &lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;=
</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Date:</b>2019-07-17 23:10:45</div>
<div style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Subject:</b>[Bier] Comments on </div=
>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma; color:#000000; font-size:1=
0pt">
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Hi</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">I have read the draft and think it=
 looks far better by using multi-hop tLDP session than the complex mechanis=
m that I had not understand well in previous draft.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">some comments/questions below:</sp=
an></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">3.2. EBBR procedure method&nbsp;</=
span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;The Egress BBR (EBBR)=
 is connected to the mLDP domain which the root</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;of the P2MP or MP2MP =
LSP resides on. The EBBR should accept the tLDP</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;session and assign a =
upstream assigned label for arriving FEC.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;The EBBR should follo=
w the [RFC7060] procedures with following</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;modifications:</span>=
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">[XJR] the following procedures fol=
low 7060 or 7389 ?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;- The label assigned =
by EBBR cannot be Implicit Null. This is to</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;ensure that identity =
of each p2mp and/or mp2mp tunnel in BIER domain</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;is uniquely distingui=
shed.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;- The label can be as=
signed from a domain-wide Common Block (DCB) [I-</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;D.zzhang-bess-mvpn-ev=
pn-aggregation-label], as well as upstream</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;assigned.</span></div=
>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;- The Interface ID TL=
V [RFC6389]includes a new BIER sub-domain sub-</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;tlv (type TBD)</span>=
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">[XJR] this Interface ID TLV is car=
ried in message from EBBR(BFIR) to IBBR(BFERs)?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;With same token the E=
BBR should track all the arriving FECs and the</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;IBBRs that are genera=
ting these FECs. EBBR will use this information</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;to build the bier hea=
der for each set of common FEC arriving from the</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;IBBRs.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">[XJR] How does EBBR track the IBBR=
s?&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">[XJR] Let me imagine:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">(1) IBBR(BFER) receive the mLDP Ma=
pping from downstream LSR, and send a xxx message to EBBR(BFIR).</span></di=
v>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">(2) EBBR(BFIR) send a LDP Mapping =
message (with Upstream-Assigned Label Request TLV) to all its tLDP neighbor=
s ?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">(3) BFIR should tell the BFERs the=
 upstrea-assigned Label, and the Sub-domain, and
<font color=3D"#0000ff">the BFIR-id</font> at least I guess.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Is that right ?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">What's the xxx message (in case th=
e tLDP is static configured, in case the tLDP is dynamicly established)?</s=
pan></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Thinking of the information need t=
o carry in the LDP message, there will be MPLS WG be considered more.</span=
></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">4. Datapath Forwarding</span></div=
>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">4.1. Datapath traffic flow</span><=
/div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;On BFIR when the MPLS=
 label for P2MP/MP2MP LSP arrives a lookup in</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;ILM table is done and=
 the label is swapped with tLDP upstream</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;assigned label. The B=
FIR will note all the BFERs that are interested</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;in specific p2mp/mp2m=
p LSP (as per section 3.2). BFIR will put the</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;corresponding BIER he=
ader with bit index set for all IBBRs interested</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;in this P2MP LSP. BFI=
R will set the&nbsp; BIERHeader.Proto =3D MPLS and will</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&nbsp; &nbsp;forward the BIER pack=
et into BIER domain.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">[XJR] is there a proper BFIR-id va=
lue to be mentioned ?</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From nobody Thu Jul 18 04:34:48 2019
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
CC: "'draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org'" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn@ietf.org>,  "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension@ietf.org>, "draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org" <draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain@ietf.org>, "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org" <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 11:33:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Doubt regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 11:47:33 +0000
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Subject: [Bier] Doubt regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>
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Hi authors,

I did not see the authors/presenter answer the qestions below, though I hav=
e discussed with Jeffrey about some of these questions.
Such the silence makes me more doubtful.
(1) don't the authors think there is serious problem like the below [Q8] ?
(2) don't the authors think this draft is a Layer-4 and thus conflicts with=
 the requirement draft ?
(3) have the authors thought why the layer-4 is not recommended 2 years bef=
ore by Eric ?
(4) have the authors been aware this solution is similar to or the same as =
the <draft-xu-bier-encapsulation> that had proposed since 2014?
(5) Do the authors think it good to grab the time slot on BIER session anyw=
ay while ignoring the questions already raised here in text?

Thanks
Jingrong

________________________________
From: Xiejingrong
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2019 15:01
To: draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG
Subject: Questions regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>

Hi,
I have the following question regarding <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03>:

This document defines native IPv6 encapsulation for BIER
   hop-by-hop forwarding or BIERin6 for short.
[XJR Q1]: authors of the draft think BIER in IPv6 encapsulation is useful, =
right?

   [RFC8296] defines the BIER encapsulation format in MPLS and non-MPLS
   environment.  In case of non-MPLS environment, a BIER packet is the
   payload of an "outer" encapsulation, which has a "next protocol"
   codepoint that is set to a value that means "non-MPLS BIER".
[XJR Q2]: Is the proposal a Layer-4 solution ?

   The IPv6 encapsulation could be used even between two directly
   connected BFRs in the following two cases:

   o  An operator mandates all traffic to be carried in IPv6.
[XJR Q3]: Do the authors prefer to use IPv6-encapsulation between directly-=
connected BFRs? Or use BIER-ETH for directly-connected BFRs ? How could dir=
ectly-connected BFRs be detected when 3 BFRs connected on a L2-switch ?

   o  A BFR does not have BIER support in its "fast forwarding path" and
      relies on "slow/software forwarding path", e.g. in environments
      like [RFC7368] where high throughput multicast forwarding
      performance is not critical.
[XJR Q4]: Does the document intend for =93fast forwarding=94 or =93slow for=
warding=94 or both ?

2.  IPv6 Header

   Whenever IPv6 encapsulation is used for BIER forwarding, The Next
   Header field in the IPv6 Header (if there are no extension headers),
   or the Next Header field in the last extension header is set to TBD,
   indicating that the payload is a BIER packet.

   If the neighbor is directly connected, The destination address in
   IPv6 header SHOULD be the neighbor's link-local address on this
   router's outgoing interface, the source destination address SHOULD be
   this router's link-local address on the outgoing interface, and the
   IPv6 TTL MUST be set to 1.  Otherwise, the destination address SHOULD
   be the BIER prefix of the BFR neighbor, the source address SHOULD be
   this router's BIER prefix, and the TTL MUST be large enough to get
   the packet to the BFR neighbor.
[XJR Q5]: In both cases, the SA and DA both change when BFR B receive BIERi=
n6 packet and send to BFR C. right?

2.1.  IPv6 Options Considerations

   RFC 8200 section 4, defines the IPv6 extension headers.  Currently
   there are two defined extension headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination
   options header, which can carry a variable number of options.  These
   extension headers are inserted by the source node.

   For directly connected BIER routers, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
   options are irrelevant and SHOULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the
   BIERin6 packet.  In this case IPv6 header, Next Header field should
   be set to TBD.  Any IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with
   multiple extension header where the last extension header has a Next
   Header field set to TBD, SHOULD be discard and the node should
   transmit an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the source of the
   packet (BFIR) with an ICMP code value of TBD10 ('invalid options for
   BIERin6').
[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the ext header chain and get the last NH to judg=
e if this packet need to be discard, right? For example for an incoming pac=
ket(ipv6hdr+RoutingHeader+DestOptHdr<nh!=3DTBD>), you have to walk the whol=
e extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the above =
=93discard=94 action. Right?

   This also indicates that for disjoint BIER routers using IPv6
   encapsulation, there SHOULD NOT be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination
   options be present in a BIERin6 packet.
[XJR Q7]: What does =93disjoint BIER router=94 mean?


In this case, if additional traffic engineering is required, IPv6 tunneling=
 (i.e.  BIERin6 over
   SRv6) can be implemented.
[XJR Q8]
Speaking of the additional SRv6 for some future requirements, I agree it is=
 important for a solution to have the flexibility.
Suppose you may support BIER payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH)=
 and DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr:
Suppose also, you may support XXX payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeade=
r(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.
Suppose also, you may support YYY payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeade=
r(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two options(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.

I guess the following processing is needed:

Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA) ;;You have to do FIB lookup anyway
Switch(Result)
Case Local Interface IPv6 Address:
If packet is (IPv6+RH)+(BIER payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(BIER payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+RH+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(BIER payload)
     Process it
Else If packet is (IPv6+RH)+(XXX payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(XXX payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+RH+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(XXX payload)
     Process it
Else If packet is (IPv6+RH)+(YYY payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(YYY payload)
     Process it
Else if packet is (IPv6+RH+DestOptHdr<Code X or Code Y>)+(YYY payload)
     Process it
Else
     Do normal things as usual (like sending ICMPv6/UDP/TCP packet to the c=
ontrol-plane)
Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Address
  Do normal routing and forwarding as usual.

The normal things will need 10 steps, the YYY payload will need 7~9 Steps, =
the XXX will need 4~6 steps=85=85 right ? Will that be suitable for fast-pa=
th ?

[XJR Q9] Also about the flexibility, Does AH function like Integrity Check =
possibly be supported?

[XJR Q10] Also about the flexibility, Are multiple BIER Headers possibly al=
lowed ?



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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">Hi authors,
<div><br>
<div>I did not see the authors/presenter answer the qestions below, though =
I have discussed with Jeffrey about some of these questions.</div>
<div>Such the silence makes me more doubtful.</div>
<div>(1) don't the authors think there is serious problem like the below [Q=
8] ?</div>
<div>(2) don't the authors think this draft is a Layer-4 and thus conflicts=
 with the requirement draft ?</div>
<div>(3) have the authors thought why the layer-4 is not recommended 2 year=
s before by Eric ?</div>
<div>(4) have the authors been aware this solution is similar to or the sam=
e as the &lt;draft-xu-bier-encapsulation&gt; that had proposed since 2014?<=
/div>
<div>(5) Do the authors think it good to grab the time slot on BIER session=
 anyway while ignoring the questions already raised here in text?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong</div>
<div><br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF350455" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si=
ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 09, 2019 15:01<br>
<b>To:</b> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org; BIER WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Questions regarding &lt;draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have the following question regarding &lt;=
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03&gt;:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;; color:navy"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-indent=
:22.0pt; text-autospace:none">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier N=
ew&quot;; color:navy">This document defines native IPv6 encapsulation for B=
IER</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; hop-by-hop forwarding or BIERi=
n6 for short.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q1]: authors of the draft =
think BIER in IPv6 encapsulation is useful, right?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC8296] defines the BIER enc=
apsulation format in MPLS and non-MPLS</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; environment.&nbsp; In case of =
non-MPLS environment, a BIER packet is the&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;payload of an &quot;outer=
&quot; encapsulation, which has a &quot;next protocol&quot;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; codepoint that is set to a val=
ue that means &quot;non-MPLS BIER&quot;.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q2]: Is the proposal a Lay=
er-4 solution ?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; The IPv6 encapsulation could b=
e used even between two directly&nbsp;
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;connected BFRs in the fol=
lowing two cases:</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; An operator mandates a=
ll traffic to be carried in IPv6.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q3]: Do the authors prefer=
 to use IPv6-encapsulation between directly-connected BFRs? Or use BIER-ETH=
 for directly-connected BFRs ? How could directly-connected BFRs be detecte=
d when 3 BFRs connected on a L2-switch
 ?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; A BFR does not have BI=
ER support in its &quot;fast forwarding path&quot; and&nbsp;
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;relies =
on &quot;slow/software forwarding path&quot;, e.g. in environments</span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; like [RFC736=
8] where high throughput multicast forwarding</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; performance =
is not critical.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q4]: Does the document int=
end for =93fast forwarding=94 or =93slow forwarding=94 or both ?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">2.&nbsp; IPv6 Header</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; Whenever IPv6 encapsulation is=
 used for BIER forwarding, The Next</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; Header field in the IPv6 Heade=
r (if there are no extension headers),</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; or the Next Header field in th=
e last extension header is set to TBD,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; indicating that the payload is=
 a BIER packet.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the neighbor is directly co=
nnected, The destination address in&nbsp;
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;IPv6 header SHOULD be the=
 neighbor's link-local address on this</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; router's outgoing interface, t=
he source destination address SHOULD be</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; this router's link-local addre=
ss on the outgoing interface, and the</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; IPv6 TTL MUST be set to 1.&nbs=
p; Otherwise, the destination address SHOULD</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; be the BIER prefix of the BFR =
neighbor, the source address SHOULD be</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; this router's BIER prefix, and=
 the TTL MUST be large enough to get</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; the packet to the BFR neighbor=
.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q5]: In both cases, the SA=
 and DA both change when BFR B receive BIERin6 packet and send to BFR C. ri=
ght?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">2.1.&nbsp; IPv6 Options Considerations</spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; RFC 8200 section 4, defines th=
e IPv6 extension headers.&nbsp; Currently</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; there are two defined extensio=
n headers, Hop-by-Hop and Destination</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options header, which can carr=
y a variable number of options.&nbsp; These</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; extension headers are inserted=
 by the source node.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; For directly connected BIER ro=
uters, IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options are irrelevant and SHO=
ULD NOT be inserted by BFIR on the</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6 packet.&nbsp; In this =
case IPv6 header, Next Header field should&nbsp;
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;be set to TBD.&nbsp; Any =
IPv6 packet arriving on BFRs and BFERs, with&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;multiple extension header=
 where the last extension header has a Next</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; Header field set to TBD, SHOUL=
D be discard and the node should</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; transmit an ICMP Parameter Pro=
blem message to the source of the</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; packet (BFIR) with an ICMP cod=
e value of TBD10 ('invalid options for</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; BIERin6').</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q6]: You have to walk the =
ext header chain and get the last NH to judge if this packet need to be dis=
card, right? For example for an incoming packet(ipv6hdr&#43;RoutingHeader&#=
43;DestOptHdr&lt;nh!=3DTBD&gt;), you have to walk the
 whole extension header chain until you know the last NH, to execute the ab=
ove =93discard=94 action. Right?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; This also indicates that for d=
isjoint BIER routers using IPv6</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation, there SHOULD NO=
T be any IPv6 Hop-by-Hop or Destination</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; options be present in a BIERin=
6 packet.&nbsp;
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q7]: What does =93disjoint=
 BIER router=94 mean?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-indent=
:22.0pt; text-autospace:none">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Courier N=
ew&quot;; color:navy">In this case, if additional traffic engineering is re=
quired, IPv6 tunneling (i.e.&nbsp; BIERin6 over</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left; text-autosp=
ace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;; color:navy">&nbsp;&nbsp; SRv6) can be implemented.</spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q8]</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Speaking of the additional SRv6=
 for some future requirements, I agree it is important for a solution to ha=
ve the flexibility.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose you may support BIER pa=
yload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two option=
s(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr:
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose also, you may support X=
XX payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two o=
ptions(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose also, you may support Y=
YY payload with two Ext Headers RoutingHeader(RH) and DestOptHdr, and two o=
ptions(code X or code Y) in DestOptHdr.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I guess the following processin=
g is needed:</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Result =3D FIB Lookup(DA) ;;You=
 have to do FIB lookup anyway</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Switch(Result)</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Case Local Interface IPv6 Addre=
ss:</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If packet is (IPv6&#43;RH)&#43;=
(BIER payload)</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;Des=
tOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(BIER payload)</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;RH&=
#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(BIER payload)</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else If packet is (IPv6&#43;RH)=
&#43;(XXX payload)</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;Des=
tOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(XXX payload)</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;RH&=
#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(XXX payload)</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else If packet is (IPv6&#43;RH)=
&#43;(YYY payload)</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;Des=
tOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(YYY payload)</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else if packet is (IPv6&#43;RH&=
#43;DestOptHdr&lt;Code X or Code Y&gt;)&#43;(YYY payload)</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Proces=
s it</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Else </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;D=
o normal things as usual (like sending ICMPv6/UDP/TCP packet to the control=
-plane)</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Case Non-Local Routable IPv6 Ad=
dress</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; Do normal routing and fo=
rwarding as usual.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The normal things will need 10 =
steps, the YYY payload will need 7~9 Steps, the XXX will need 4~6 steps=85=
=85 right ? Will that be suitable for fast-path ?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q9] Also about the flexibi=
lity, Does AH function like Integrity Check possibly be supported?</span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[XJR Q10] Also about the flexib=
ility, Are multiple BIER Headers possibly allowed ?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments on <draft-ietf-bier-mld-02>
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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:30:29 +0000
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Subject: [Bier] Comments on <draft-ietf-bier-mld-02>
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Hi,
I have the some comments on the draft.

3.  Overview
   This document proposes to use the mechanisms described in MLDv2 in
   order to enable multicast membership information sharing from BFERs
   toward BFIRs within a given BIER domain.  BMLD queries (resp.
   reports) are sent over BIER toward all BMLD Nodes (resp.  BMLD
   Queriers) using modified MLDv2 messages which IP destination is set
   to a configured 'all BMLD Nodes' (resp. 'all BMLD Queriers') IP
   multicast address.
[XJR] I don't think the 'resp.' is good for a draft. I try to understand li=
ke this:
BMLD queries are sent over BIER toward all BMLD Nodes, using DA 'all BMLD N=
odes'.
BMLD reports are sent over BIER toward all BMLD Queriers, using DA 'all BML=
D Queriers'.

5.1.  Configuration Parameters
   Both Queriers and Listeners MUST operate as BFIRs and BFERs within
   the BIER domain in order to send and receive BMLD messages.  They
   MUST therefore be configured accordingly, as specified in [RFC8279].
   All Listeners MUST be configured with an 'all BMLD Queriers'
   multicast address and the BFR-ids of all the BMLD Queriers.  This is
   used by Listeners to send BMLD reports over BIER toward all Queriers.
   All Queriers MUST be configured to accept BMLD reports sent to this
   address.
   All Queriers MUST be configured with an 'all BMLD Nodes' multicast
   address and the BFR-ids of all the Queriers and Listeners.  This
   information is used by Queriers to send BMLD queries over BIER toward
   all BMLD Nodes.  All BMLD Nodes MUST be configured to accept BMLD
   queries sent to this address.

   It may be cumbersone to configure the exact set of BFR-ids for
   Queriers and Listeners.  One MAY configure the set of BFR-ids to
   contain any potentially used BFR-id, perhaps having all bit positions
   set.  There is no harm in configuring unused BFR-ids.  Configuring
   the BFR-ids of additional routers would in most cases cause no harm,
   as a router would drop the BMLD message unless it is configured as a
   Querier or a Listener.
[XJR] I am afraid that may still be a lot of configuration, considering the=
 use case this draft listed ---- each vni need to configure a 'all BMLD Que=
riers' and 'all BMLD Nodes' multicast address.
[XJR] besides that, the 'would in most cases cause no harm' is very confuse=
d to me. Can the authors point out which may be the cases cause harm, how w=
ould that harm be?

5.3.  Packet Forwarding

   BMLD Queriers configure the BIER Layer using the information obtained
   using BMLD, which associates BMLD Listeners (identified by their BFR-
   Prefixes) with their respective MLDv2 membership state.
[XJR] BMLD Queries construct the multicast overlay forwarding information. =
The text are saying the Queriers construct the BIER Layer ?

A.3.  A BIER MLD solution for Virtual Network information
   The BIER MLD solution allows having multiple MLD instances by having
   unique pairs of BMLD Nodes and BMLD Querier addresses for each
   instance.  Assume for now that we have a unique instance per VNI and
   that all BMLD routers are using the same mapping between VNIs and
   BMLD address pairs.  Also for each VNI there is a multicast group
   used for encapsulation of BUM traffic over BIER.  This group may
   potentially be shared by some or all of the VNIs.
[XJR] per the VNI, an 'all BMLD Nodes' and 'all BMLD Queriers' need to be c=
onfigured, as pointed above.
Besides, how could you differentiate the VNI a packet belongs to ? Do you h=
ave a upstream-assigned VpnLabel or a domain-unique Vni value ? What's the =
proto value in the BIER header ?

Besides the above comments, I have the following questions:
(1) What is the advantages does the authors think this draft as a solution =
to DC BUM using BIER, comparing to <draft-ietf-bier-evpn> draft ?
(2) There is even consideration to use MVPN signal between EVPN PEs for per=
-VRF. How do you feel about that as an alternative?

Thanks,
Jingrong


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<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Hi,&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">I have the some comments on the =
draft.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">3.&nbsp; Overview</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;This document propo=
ses to use the mechanisms described in MLDv2 in</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;order to enable mul=
ticast membership information sharing from BFERs</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;toward BFIRs within=
 a given BIER domain.&nbsp; BMLD queries (resp.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;reports) are sent o=
ver BIER toward all BMLD Nodes (resp.&nbsp; BMLD</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;Queriers) using mod=
ified MLDv2 messages which IP destination is set</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;to a configured 'al=
l BMLD Nodes' (resp. 'all BMLD Queriers') IP</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;multicast address.<=
/span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR] I don't think the 'resp.' =
is good for a draft. I try to understand like this:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">BMLD queries are sent over BIER =
toward all BMLD Nodes, using DA 'all BMLD Nodes'.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">BMLD reports are sent over BIER =
toward all BMLD Queriers, using DA 'all BMLD Queriers'.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">5.1.&nbsp; Configuration Paramet=
ers</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;Both Queriers and L=
isteners MUST operate as BFIRs and BFERs within</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;the BIER domain in =
order to send and receive BMLD messages.&nbsp; They</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;MUST therefore be c=
onfigured accordingly, as specified in [RFC8279].</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;All Listeners MUST =
be configured with an 'all BMLD Queriers'</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;multicast address a=
nd the BFR-ids of all the BMLD Queriers.&nbsp; This is</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;used by Listeners t=
o send BMLD reports over BIER toward all Queriers.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;All Queriers MUST b=
e configured to accept BMLD reports sent to this</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;address.</span></di=
v>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;All Queriers MUST b=
e configured with an 'all BMLD Nodes' multicast</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;address and the BFR=
-ids of all the Queriers and Listeners.&nbsp; This</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;information is used=
 by Queriers to send BMLD queries over BIER toward</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;all BMLD Nodes.&nbs=
p; All BMLD Nodes MUST be configured to accept BMLD</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;queries sent to thi=
s address.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;It may be cumberson=
e to configure the exact set of BFR-ids for</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;Queriers and Listen=
ers.&nbsp; One MAY configure the set of BFR-ids to</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;contain any potenti=
ally used BFR-id, perhaps having all bit positions</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;set.&nbsp; There is=
 no harm in configuring unused BFR-ids.&nbsp; Configuring</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;the BFR-ids of addi=
tional routers would in most cases cause no harm,</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;as a router would d=
rop the BMLD message unless it is configured as a</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;Querier or a Listen=
er.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR] I am afraid that may still=
 be a lot of configuration,&nbsp;</span>considering the use case this draft=
 listed ---- each vni need to configure a 'all BMLD Queriers' and 'all BMLD=
 Nodes' multicast address.</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR] besides that, the 'would i=
n most cases cause no harm' is very confused to me.&nbsp;</span>Can the aut=
hors point out which may be the cases cause harm, how would that harm be?</=
div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">5.3.&nbsp; Packet Forwarding</sp=
an></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;BMLD Queriers confi=
gure the BIER Layer using the information obtained</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;using BMLD, which a=
ssociates BMLD Listeners (identified by their BFR-</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;Prefixes) with thei=
r respective MLDv2 membership state.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR] BMLD Queries construct the=
 multicast overlay forwarding information. The text are saying the Queriers=
 construct the BIER Layer ?&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">A.3.&nbsp; A BIER MLD solution f=
or Virtual Network information</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;The BIER MLD soluti=
on allows having multiple MLD instances by having</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;unique pairs of BML=
D Nodes and BMLD Querier addresses for each</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;instance.&nbsp; Ass=
ume for now that we have a unique instance per VNI and</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;that all BMLD route=
rs are using the same mapping between VNIs and</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;BMLD address pairs.=
&nbsp; Also for each VNI there is a multicast group</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;used for encapsulat=
ion of BUM traffic over BIER.&nbsp; This group may</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp;potentially be shar=
ed by some or all of the VNIs.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR] per the VNI, an 'all BMLD =
Nodes' and 'all BMLD Queriers' need to be configured, as pointed above.</sp=
an></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Besides, how could you different=
iate the VNI a packet belongs to ? Do you have a upstream-assigned VpnLabel=
 or a domain-unique Vni value ? What's the proto value in the BIER header ?=
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Besides the above comments, I ha=
ve the following questions:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">(1) What is the advantages does =
the authors think this draft as a solution to DC BUM using BIER, comparing =
to &lt;draft-ietf-bier-evpn&gt; draft ?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">(2) There is even consideration =
to use MVPN signal between EVPN PEs for per-VRF. How do you feel about that=
 as an alternative?&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Thanks,</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Jingrong</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, Mike McBride <mmcbride7@gmail.com>
CC: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] WGLC - draft-ietf-bier-te-arch
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Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC - draft-ietf-bier-te-arch
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Good examples in the -03 draft.=0A=
I like the style of rich examples as I have been used to use in my document=
s.=0A=
The more I think about the BIER-TE idea, the more I feel it is useful and c=
reative recently.=0A=
I support the BIER-TE LC.=0A=
=0A=
Thanks=0A=
Jingrong=0A=
=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Toerless Eckert [tte@cs.fau=
.de]=0A=
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2019 23:38=0A=
To: Mike McBride=0A=
Cc: Greg Shepherd; BIER WG; Pascal Thubert (pthubert)=0A=
Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC - draft-ietf-bier-te-arch=0A=
=0A=
Thanks, Mike=0A=
=0A=
The authors also reviewed the document and concluded that it was really=0A=
hard to get into the document context because of too many forward=0A=
dependencies. We tried to fix this by adding two hopefully good & basic=0A=
examples into the Introduction section and using them to also add=0A=
a better definition of the term "BIER-TE Topology" in the Introduction.=0A=
Hopefully this makes readin the rest of te document smoother.=0A=
=0A=
Also improved text of Abstract and refined text compariing BIER-TE with SR.=
=0A=
=0A=
http://tools.ietf.org//rfcdiff?url1=3Dhttps://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-=
bier-te-arch-02.txt&url2=3Dhttps://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-te-arc=
h-03.txt=0A=
=0A=
Cheers=0A=
    Toerless=0A=
=0A=
On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 10:39:36AM -0700, Mike McBride wrote:=0A=
> How about three? I support.=0A=
> mike=0A=
>=0A=
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 10:42 AM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:=
=0A=
> >=0A=
> > We cannot take two 'yes' votes and WG consensus.=0A=
> > Please, read and respond. If you don't support, then please vote as muc=
h publicly right here.=0A=
> >=0A=
> > Thanks,=0A=
> > Greg=0A=
> >=0A=
> > On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 10:05 PM Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cis=
co.com> wrote:=0A=
> >>=0A=
> >> Support:=0A=
> >>=0A=
> >> I see great value in deterministic networks as well as IOT (with RPL).=
=0A=
> >>=0A=
> >> All the best,=0A=
> >>=0A=
> >> Pascal=0A=
> >>=0A=
> >> > -----Original Message-----=0A=
> >> > From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert=0A=
> >> > Sent: mardi 4 juin 2019 02:03=0A=
> >> > To: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>=0A=
> >> > Cc: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>=0A=
> >> > Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC - draft-ietf-bier-te-arch=0A=
> >> >=0A=
> >> > +1=0A=
> >> > Obviously support as co-author.=0A=
> >> >=0A=
> >> > On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 12:41:26PM -0700, Greg Shepherd wrote:=0A=
> >> > > Please read and respond to this thread w/ or w/o support.=0A=
> >> > >=0A=
> >> > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-te-arch/=0A=
> >> > >=0A=
> >> > > Vote ends 5 June 2019.=0A=
> >> > >=0A=
> >> > > Thanks,=0A=
> >> > > Shep=0A=
> >> > > (chairs)=0A=
> >> >=0A=
> >> > > _______________________________________________=0A=
> >> > > BIER mailing list=0A=
> >> > > BIER@ietf.org=0A=
> >> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier=0A=
> >> >=0A=
> >> > _______________________________________________=0A=
> >> > BIER mailing list=0A=
> >> > BIER@ietf.org=0A=
> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier=0A=
> >=0A=
> > _______________________________________________=0A=
> > BIER mailing list=0A=
> > BIER@ietf.org=0A=
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier=0A=
=0A=
--=0A=
---=0A=
tte@cs.fau.de=0A=
=0A=
_______________________________________________=0A=
BIER mailing list=0A=
BIER@ietf.org=0A=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier=0A=


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Thread-Topic: [Bier]  ///Re:  WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-bgp-ls-bier-ext
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Subject: Re: [Bier] ///Re:  WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-bgp-ls-bier-ext
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--_000_DM5PR11MB2027FC8CF1FB1BA064C1D1FBC1C40DM5PR11MB2027namp_--


From nobody Mon Jul 22 05:40:29 2019
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "bier-chairs@ietf.org" <bier-chairs@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:40:11 +0000
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Subject: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda
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Dear Greg & Chairs,
I have sent my concerns days ago but haven't got any response, so I have to=
 use a new title on the mail.
I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for <draft-=
xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03> draft, and give up the requested time slot =
for the other 3 drafts.
I have the following reasons:
(1) It is the time now to discuss encapsulation proposals, to help making t=
he <bier-ipv6-requirements> more clear.
(2) the <bierin6> draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. Obviously it=
 is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on the list whi=
ch I think is serious.
(3) as a cmpromise, I ack to give up the time slot request on other 3 draft=
s. Does that work for you ?
(4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorten the=
 presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks
Jingrong

________________________________
From: BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Greg Shepherd [gjshep@gmail=
.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08
To: BIER WG
Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105

Just updated the agenda:.

IETF 105, Montreal
BIER WG Agenda

WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03
 draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang
draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride
- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
- requirements draft.
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
  draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjs=
hep@gmail.com>> wrote:
I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for your review (below).=
 Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (unicast to this gmai=
l address).

IETF 105, Montreal
BIER WG Agenda

WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride
- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
- requirements draft.
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
  draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjsh=
ep@gmail.com>> wrote:
Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested tim=
e to this thread.

Thanks,
Shep
(chairs)

--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB90985Cnkgeml514mbschi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"></style>
</head>
<body fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<div>Dear Greg &amp; Chairs,</div>
<div>I have sent my concerns&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">days ago=
&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">but haven't got any response,=
 so I have to use a new title on the mail.</span></div>
<div>I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for &l=
t;draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03&gt; draft, and give up the requested=
 time slot for the other 3 drafts.</div>
<div>I have the following reasons:</div>
<div>(1) I<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">t is the time now to discuss enc=
apsulation proposals, to help making&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">the &lt;bier-ipv6-requirements&gt; more clear.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div>(2) the &lt;bierin6&gt; draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. O=
bviously it is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on t=
he list which I think is serious.</div>
<div>(3)&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">as a cmpromise,&nbsp;</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I ack to give up the time slot request on =
other 3 drafts. Does that work for you ?</span></div>
<div>(4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorte=
n the presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please let me know your thoughts.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong</div>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF638309" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si=
ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org] on beh=
alf of Greg Shepherd [gjshep@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Just updated the agenda:.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e&nbsp;</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg=
 Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"=
noopener noreferrer">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204=
); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for you=
r review (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (uni=
cast to this gmail address).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e&nbsp;</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg =
Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
oopener noreferrer">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204=
); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, =
and requested time to this thread.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Shep</div>
<div>(chairs)</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB90985Cnkgeml514mbschi_--


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Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com
From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 11:30:02 -0700
Message-ID: <CABFReBpnEmHKTFfcHaum5BzKdh0KYSB90rsThyKgZqz7nXjLuA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
Cc: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "bier-chairs@ietf.org" <bier-chairs@ietf.org>,  "bier-ads@ietf.org" <bier-ads@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/4utEhR8vJQB97oMBcWIXSBYx6W8>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda
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Jingrong,

The agenda stands as a reflection of the decisions of the WG according to
our procedures and charter. From the charter:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/

7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be
standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood
applicability.

As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER
is no longer native v6

Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/

There was a productive discussion in the room. The consensus in the room,
which was confirmed from the list, was that this work will focus on the
problem statement first. If one or more unique use-cases are presented that
require a new encoding or encapsulation then we can address solutions to
these use-case in the associated drafts. If these solutions are out of
scope of our charter, we can propose changing the charter to include this
work at that time, as necessary.

I'm sorry the WG is not moving as fast as you like. I agree with you. :) We
have more than a handful of active drafts ready for WGLC and we can't get
volunteers for Doc Shepherds. Some WGLC email responses were so
depressingly low it can't be considered much of a consensus. But it's what
we have and where we are at this time.

I look forward getting deeper into the use-cases draft this week. Thanks
for you help and patience.

- Shep
(chairs)

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:40 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote:

> Dear Greg & Chairs,
> I have sent my concerns days ago but haven't got any response, so I have
> to use a new title on the mail.
> I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for
> <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03> draft, and give up the requested
> time slot for the other 3 drafts.
> I have the following reasons:
> (1) It is the time now to discuss encapsulation proposals, to help making the
> <bier-ipv6-requirements> more clear.
> (2) the <bierin6> draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. Obviously
> it is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on the list
> which I think is serious.
> (3) as a cmpromise, I ack to give up the time slot request on other 3
> drafts. Does that work for you ?
> (4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorten
> the presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes?
>
> Please let me know your thoughts.
>
> Thanks
> Jingrong
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Greg Shepherd [
> gjshep@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08
> *To:* BIER WG
> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
>
> Just updated the agenda:.
>
> IETF 105, Montreal
> BIER WG Agenda
>
> WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
> draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
> draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
> draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
> draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
> draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
> draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03
>  draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang
> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride
> - additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
> - requirements draft.
>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
>   draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for your review
>> (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (unicast to
>> this gmail address).
>>
>> IETF 105, Montreal
>> BIER WG Agenda
>>
>> WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
>> draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
>> draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
>> draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
>> draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
>> draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
>> draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
>> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride
>> - additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
>> - requirements draft.
>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
>>   draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
>>> time to this thread.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Shep
>>> (chairs)
>>>
>>

--0000000000003dbc6e058e4944bf
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13.3=
33333015441895px">Jingrong,</span><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13.333333015441895px"><br></=
span></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma">The agenda stands a=
s a=C2=A0reflection of the=C2=A0decisions of the WG=C2=A0according to our p=
rocedures and charter. From the charter:</font></div><div><font color=3D"#0=
00000" face=3D"Tahoma"><br></font></div><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker=
.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/</a><f=
ont color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma"><br></font></div><div><br></div><div>=
<div>7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be</div=
><div>standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood</div=
><div>applicability.</div></div><div><br></div><div>As of now, the WG has d=
ecided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER is no longer native v6</=
div><div><br></div><div>Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:<=
/div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minute=
s-104-bier/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/</a><br></di=
v><div><br></div><div>There was a productive discussion in the room. The co=
nsensus in the room, which was confirmed from the list, was that this work =
will focus on the problem statement first. If one or more unique use-cases =
are presented that require a new encoding or encapsulation then we can addr=
ess solutions to these use-case in the associated drafts. If these solution=
s are out of scope of our charter, we can propose changing the charter to i=
nclude this work at that time, as necessary.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39=
;m sorry the WG is not moving as fast as you like. I agree with you. :) We =
have more than a handful of active drafts ready for WGLC and we can&#39;t g=
et volunteers for Doc Shepherds. Some WGLC email responses were so depressi=
ngly low it can&#39;t be considered much of a consensus. But it&#39;s what =
we have and where we are at this time.</div><div><br></div><div>I look forw=
ard getting deeper into the use-cases draft this week. Thanks for you help =
and patience.</div><div><br></div><div>- Shep</div><div>(chairs)</div></div=
></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:40 AM Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:xiejingrong@huawei.com">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">




<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:1=
0pt">
<div>Dear Greg &amp; Chairs,</div>
<div>I have sent my concerns=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">days ago=
=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">but haven&#39;t got any respons=
e, so I have to use a new title on the mail.</span></div>
<div>I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for &l=
t;draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03&gt; draft, and give up the requested=
 time slot for the other 3 drafts.</div>
<div>I have the following reasons:</div>
<div>(1) I<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">t is the time now to discuss encap=
sulation proposals, to help making=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t">the &lt;bier-ipv6-requirements&gt; more clear.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div>(2) the &lt;bierin6&gt; draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. O=
bviously it is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on t=
he list which I think is serious.</div>
<div>(3)=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">as a cmpromise,=C2=A0</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt">I ack to give up the time slot request on othe=
r 3 drafts. Does that work for you ?</span></div>
<div>(4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorte=
n the presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please let me know your thoughts.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong</div>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);font=
-size:16px">
<hr>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_4762263837237781353divRpF638309" style=3D"direction:ltr"=
><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> BIER [<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier-bounces@ietf.or=
g</a>] on behalf of Greg Shepherd [<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Just updated the agenda:.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e=C2=A0</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg=
 Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for you=
r review (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (uni=
cast to this gmail address).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e=C2=A0</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg =
Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, =
and requested time to this thread.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Shep</div>
<div>(chairs)</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--0000000000003dbc6e058e4944bf--


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Thread-Topic: Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 20:39:54 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda
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Dear Greg,

7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be
standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood
applicability.

As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER
is no longer native v6
[XJR]
Maybe the "natively" in the charter is subjective. Let's think about "BIER =
in IPv6".
BIERv6 is BIER in IPv6 extension header, and BIERin6 is BIER in IPv6 payloa=
d.
Which one do you think is more "native" ? say one is 50% native and one is =
60% native?
It's clear when this charter text was discussing, we want to have a useful =
BIER IPv6, instead of limiting ourselves by "native" or not.
This can be refered to https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_U=
oHBrxza7iar8jMjYJg
This conclusion above will unnecessarily kill the work we have done on BIER=
v6 so far, and discourage the work later.

Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/
[XJR]
I have read the minutes many times. Maybe we went wrong to judge native or =
not from this. For example here is one of the discussion about native:
Because bier uses its own header, no matter how you do it, we cannot call i=
t ipv6 native.
>From this, the "native" does not really exist. How do we explain the charte=
r text then ?

If these solutions are out of scope of our charter, we can propose changing=
 the charter to include this
work at that time, as necessary.
[XJR]
I don't think the BIERv6 is out of our current charter.
Quite the contrary, it is the reason why we gether here, thinking, discussi=
on, arguing and producing.
The current charter is not a far thing, just a year approximately.
Maybe the current AD Alvaro can give us the guidence.

Thanks
Jingrong

________________________________
From: Greg Shepherd [gjshep@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:30
To: Xiejingrong
Cc: BIER WG; bier-chairs@ietf.org; bier-ads@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda

Jingrong,

The agenda stands as a reflection of the decisions of the WG according to o=
ur procedures and charter. From the charter:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/

7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be
standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood
applicability.

As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER i=
s no longer native v6

Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/

There was a productive discussion in the room. The consensus in the room, w=
hich was confirmed from the list, was that this work will focus on the prob=
lem statement first. If one or more unique use-cases are presented that req=
uire a new encoding or encapsulation then we can address solutions to these=
 use-case in the associated drafts. If these solutions are out of scope of =
our charter, we can propose changing the charter to include this work at th=
at time, as necessary.

I'm sorry the WG is not moving as fast as you like. I agree with you. :) We=
 have more than a handful of active drafts ready for WGLC and we can't get =
volunteers for Doc Shepherds. Some WGLC email responses were so depressingl=
y low it can't be considered much of a consensus. But it's what we have and=
 where we are at this time.

I look forward getting deeper into the use-cases draft this week. Thanks fo=
r you help and patience.

- Shep
(chairs)

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:40 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com<mailto:=
xiejingrong@huawei.com>> wrote:
Dear Greg & Chairs,
I have sent my concerns days ago but haven't got any response, so I have to=
 use a new title on the mail.
I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for <draft-=
xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03> draft, and give up the requested time slot =
for the other 3 drafts.
I have the following reasons:
(1) It is the time now to discuss encapsulation proposals, to help making t=
he <bier-ipv6-requirements> more clear.
(2) the <bierin6> draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. Obviously it=
 is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on the list whi=
ch I think is serious.
(3) as a cmpromise, I ack to give up the time slot request on other 3 draft=
s. Does that work for you ?
(4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorten the=
 presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks
Jingrong

________________________________
From: BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>] on behalf =
of Greg Shepherd [gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjshep@gmail.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08
To: BIER WG
Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105

Just updated the agenda:.

IETF 105, Montreal
BIER WG Agenda

WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03
 draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang
draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride
- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
- requirements draft.
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
  draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjs=
hep@gmail.com>> wrote:
I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for your review (below).=
 Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (unicast to this gmai=
l address).

IETF 105, Montreal
BIER WG Agenda

WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride
- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
- requirements draft.
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
  draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjsh=
ep@gmail.com>> wrote:
Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested tim=
e to this thread.

Thanks,
Shep
(chairs)

--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB909B4Fnkgeml514mbschi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"></style>
</head>
<body fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<div>
<div>Dear Greg,</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to=
 use BIER natively in IPv6 may be</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">standardized if coordinated with=
 the 6MAN WG and with understood</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">applicability.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">As of now, the WG has decided th=
at modifying the v6 header to encode BIER</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">is no longer native v6</span></d=
iv>
<div>[XJR]&nbsp;</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Maybe the &quot;natively&quot; i=
n the charter is subjective. Let's think about &quot;BIER in IPv6&quot;.</s=
pan></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">BIERv6 is BIER in IPv6 extension=
 header, and BIERin6 is BIER in IPv6 payload.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Which one do you think is more &=
quot;native&quot; ? say one is 50% native and one is 60% native?</span></di=
v>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">It's clear when this charter tex=
t was discussing, we want to have a useful BIER IPv6, instead of limiting o=
urselves by &quot;native&quot; or not.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">This can be refered to https://m=
ailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_UoHBrxza7iar8jMjYJg</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">This conclusion above will unnec=
essarily kill the work we have done on BIERv6 so far, and discourage the wo=
rk later.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Please review the minutes from I=
ETF 104 in Prague:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/minutes-104-bier/</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR]</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">I have read the minutes many tim=
es. Maybe we went wrong to judge native or not from this. For example here =
is one of the discussion about native:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Because bier uses its own header=
, no matter how you do it, we cannot call it ipv6 native.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">From this, the &quot;native&quot=
; does not really exist. How do we explain the charter text then ?</span></=
div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">If these solutions are out of sc=
ope of our charter, we can propose changing the charter to include this</sp=
an></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">work at that time, as necessary.=
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR]</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">I don't think the BIERv6 is out =
of our current charter.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Quite the contrary, it is the re=
ason why we gether here, thinking, discussion, arguing and producing.</span=
></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">The current charter is not a far=
 thing, just a year approximately.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Maybe the current AD Alvaro can =
give us the guidence.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Thanks</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Jingrong</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF22664" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" siz=
e=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Greg Shepherd [gjshep@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:30<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Cc:</b> BIER WG; bier-chairs@ietf.org; bier-ads@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Tahoma; font-=
size:13.333333015441895px">Jingrong,</span><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Tahoma; font-=
size:13.333333015441895px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma">The agenda stands as a&nbsp;re=
flection of the&nbsp;decisions of the WG&nbsp;according to our procedures a=
nd charter. From the charter:</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma"><br>
</font></div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/" target=3D"_bla=
nk" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/=
</a><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma"><br>
</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be</div=
>
<div>standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood</div>
<div>applicability.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode B=
IER is no longer native v6</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/mi=
nutes-104-bier/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There was a productive discussion in the room. The consensus in the ro=
om, which was confirmed from the list, was that this work will focus on the=
 problem statement first. If one or more unique use-cases are presented tha=
t require a new encoding or encapsulation
 then we can address solutions to these use-case in the associated drafts. =
If these solutions are out of scope of our charter, we can propose changing=
 the charter to include this work at that time, as necessary.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm sorry the WG is not moving as fast as you like. I agree with you. =
:) We have more than a handful of active drafts ready for WGLC and we can't=
 get volunteers for Doc Shepherds. Some WGLC email responses were so depres=
singly low it can't be considered
 much of a consensus. But it's what we have and where we are at this time.<=
/div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I look forward getting deeper into the use-cases draft this week. Than=
ks for you help and patience.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- Shep</div>
<div>(chairs)</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:40 AM Xieji=
ngrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204=
); padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma; color:rgb(0,0,0); font-siz=
e:10pt">
<div>Dear Greg &amp; Chairs,</div>
<div>I have sent my concerns&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">days ago&n=
bsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">but haven't got any response, so =
I have to use a new title on the mail.</span></div>
<div>I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for &l=
t;draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03&gt; draft, and give up the requested=
 time slot for the other 3 drafts.</div>
<div>I have the following reasons:</div>
<div>(1) I<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">t is the time now to discuss encap=
sulation proposals, to help making&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t">the &lt;bier-ipv6-requirements&gt; more clear.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div>(2) the &lt;bierin6&gt; draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. O=
bviously it is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on t=
he list which I think is serious.</div>
<div>(3)&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">as a cmpromise,&nbsp;</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt">I ack to give up the time slot request on othe=
r 3 drafts. Does that work for you ?</span></div>
<div>(4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorte=
n the presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please let me know your thoughts.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong</div>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;; color:rgb(0,0,0); fo=
nt-size:16px">
<hr>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_4762263837237781353divRpF638309" style=3D"direction:ltr"=
><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> BIER [<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener nore=
ferrer">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>] on behalf of
 Greg Shepherd [<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer">gjshep@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Just updated the agenda:.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e&nbsp;</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg=
 Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204=
); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for you=
r review (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (uni=
cast to this gmail address).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e&nbsp;</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg =
Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204=
); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, =
and requested time to this thread.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Shep</div>
<div>(chairs)</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com
From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:04:56 -0700
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To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
Cc: "bier-ads@ietf.org" <bier-ads@ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>,  "bier-chairs@ietf.org" <bier-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda
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Thank you for your input. The fact that draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements
is an adopted WG document should be confirmation that this work is being
seriously fconsidered by the WG regardless of current charter
interpretation, just as I've outlined in email here more than once. Seems
the only remaining concern is the pace of the IETF WG process. Sorry. I too
wish things move more quickly. I look forward to further discussions on
Thurs.

Cheers,
Greg
(chairs)

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 1:40 PM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote:

> Dear Greg,
>
> 7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be
> standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood
> applicability.
>
> As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER
> is no longer native v6
> [XJR]
> Maybe the "natively" in the charter is subjective. Let's think about "BIER
> in IPv6".
> BIERv6 is BIER in IPv6 extension header, and BIERin6 is BIER in IPv6
> payload.
> Which one do you think is more "native" ? say one is 50% native and one is
> 60% native?
> It's clear when this charter text was discussing, we want to have a useful
> BIER IPv6, instead of limiting ourselves by "native" or not.
> This can be refered to
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_UoHBrxza7iar8jMjYJg
> This conclusion above will unnecessarily kill the work we have done on
> BIERv6 so far, and discourage the work later.
>
> Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/
> [XJR]
> I have read the minutes many times. Maybe we went wrong to judge native or
> not from this. For example here is one of the discussion about native:
> Because bier uses its own header, no matter how you do it, we cannot call
> it ipv6 native.
> From this, the "native" does not really exist. How do we explain the
> charter text then ?
>
> If these solutions are out of scope of our charter, we can propose
> changing the charter to include this
> work at that time, as necessary.
> [XJR]
> I don't think the BIERv6 is out of our current charter.
> Quite the contrary, it is the reason why we gether here, thinking,
> discussion, arguing and producing.
> The current charter is not a far thing, just a year approximately.
> Maybe the current AD Alvaro can give us the guidence.
>
> Thanks
> Jingrong
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Greg Shepherd [gjshep@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:30
> *To:* Xiejingrong
> *Cc:* BIER WG; bier-chairs@ietf.org; bier-ads@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda
>
> Jingrong,
>
> The agenda stands as a reflection of the decisions of the WG according to
> our procedures and charter. From the charter:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/
>
> 7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be
> standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood
> applicability.
>
> As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER
> is no longer native v6
>
> Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/
>
> There was a productive discussion in the room. The consensus in the room,
> which was confirmed from the list, was that this work will focus on the
> problem statement first. If one or more unique use-cases are presented that
> require a new encoding or encapsulation then we can address solutions to
> these use-case in the associated drafts. If these solutions are out of
> scope of our charter, we can propose changing the charter to include this
> work at that time, as necessary.
>
> I'm sorry the WG is not moving as fast as you like. I agree with you. :)
> We have more than a handful of active drafts ready for WGLC and we can't
> get volunteers for Doc Shepherds. Some WGLC email responses were so
> depressingly low it can't be considered much of a consensus. But it's what
> we have and where we are at this time.
>
> I look forward getting deeper into the use-cases draft this week. Thanks
> for you help and patience.
>
> - Shep
> (chairs)
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:40 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Greg & Chairs,
>> I have sent my concerns days ago but haven't got any response, so I have
>> to use a new title on the mail.
>> I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for
>> <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03> draft, and give up the requested
>> time slot for the other 3 drafts.
>> I have the following reasons:
>> (1) It is the time now to discuss encapsulation proposals, to help
>> making the <bier-ipv6-requirements> more clear.
>> (2) the <bierin6> draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. Obviously
>> it is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on the list
>> which I think is serious.
>> (3) as a cmpromise, I ack to give up the time slot request on other 3
>> drafts. Does that work for you ?
>> (4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorten
>> the presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes?
>>
>> Please let me know your thoughts.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jingrong
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Greg Shepherd [
>> gjshep@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08
>> *To:* BIER WG
>> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
>>
>> Just updated the agenda:.
>>
>> IETF 105, Montreal
>> BIER WG Agenda
>>
>> WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
>> draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
>> draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
>> draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
>> draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
>> draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
>> draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03
>>  draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang
>> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride
>> - additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
>> - requirements draft.
>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
>>   draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for your review
>>> (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (unicast to
>>> this gmail address).
>>>
>>> IETF 105, Montreal
>>> BIER WG Agenda
>>>
>>> WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
>>> draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
>>> draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
>>> draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
>>> draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
>>> draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
>>> draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
>>> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride
>>> - additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
>>> - requirements draft.
>>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
>>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
>>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
>>>   draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested
>>>> time to this thread.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Shep
>>>> (chairs)
>>>>
>>>

--000000000000472fe9058e4b6e16
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Thank you for your input. The fact t=
hat=C2=A0draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements is an adopted WG document should=
 be confirmation that this work is being seriously fconsidered by the WG re=
gardless of current charter interpretation, just as I&#39;ve outlined in em=
ail here more than once. Seems the only remaining concern is the pace of th=
e IETF WG process. Sorry. I too wish things move more quickly. I look forwa=
rd to further discussions on Thurs.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><=
div>Greg</div><div>(chairs)</div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 1:40 PM Xieji=
ngrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com">xiejingrong@huawei.com=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left=
-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">




<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:1=
0pt">
<div>
<div>Dear Greg,</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to u=
se BIER natively in IPv6 may be</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">standardized if coordinated with t=
he 6MAN WG and with understood</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">applicability.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">As of now, the WG has decided that=
 modifying the v6 header to encode BIER</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">is no longer native v6</span></div=
>
<div>[XJR]=C2=A0</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Maybe the &quot;natively&quot; in =
the charter is subjective. Let&#39;s think about &quot;BIER in IPv6&quot;.<=
/span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">BIERv6 is BIER in IPv6 extension h=
eader, and BIERin6 is BIER in IPv6 payload.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Which one do you think is more &qu=
ot;native&quot; ? say one is 50% native and one is 60% native?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">It&#39;s clear when this charter t=
ext was discussing, we want to have a useful BIER IPv6, instead of limiting=
 ourselves by &quot;native&quot; or not.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">This can be refered to <a href=3D"=
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_UoHBrxza7iar8jMjYJg" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_UoHBrxza7=
iar8jMjYJg</a></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">This conclusion above will unneces=
sarily kill the work we have done on BIERv6 so far, and discourage the work=
 later.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Please review the minutes from IET=
F 104 in Prague:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/minutes-104-bier/</a></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">[XJR]</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">I have read the minutes many times=
. Maybe we went wrong to judge native or not from this. For example here is=
 one of the discussion about native:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Because bier uses its own header, =
no matter how you do it, we cannot call it ipv6 native.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">From this, the &quot;native&quot; =
does not really exist. How do we explain the charter text then ?</span></di=
v>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">If these solutions are out of scop=
e of our charter, we can propose changing the charter to include this</span=
></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">work at that time, as necessary.</=
span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">[XJR]</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">I don&#39;t think the BIERv6 is ou=
t of our current charter.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Quite the contrary, it is the reas=
on why we gether here, thinking, discussion, arguing and producing.</span><=
/div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">The current charter is not a far t=
hing, just a year approximately.=C2=A0=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Maybe the current AD Alvaro can gi=
ve us the guidence.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Thanks</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Jingrong</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);font=
-size:16px">
<hr>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-1492516332519887871divRpF22664" style=3D"direction:ltr"=
><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Greg Sheph=
erd [<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com=
</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:30<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Cc:</b> BIER WG; <a href=3D"mailto:bier-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">bier-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:bier-ads@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">bier-ads@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Tahoma;font-si=
ze:13.333333015441895px">Jingrong,</span><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Tahoma;font-si=
ze:13.333333015441895px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma">The agenda stands as a=C2=A0re=
flection of the=C2=A0decisions of the WG=C2=A0according to our procedures a=
nd charter. From the charter:</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma"><br>
</font></div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/" rel=3D"noopene=
r noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/=
</a><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma"><br>
</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be</div=
>
<div>standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood</div>
<div>applicability.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode B=
IER is no longer native v6</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/" rel=3D"=
noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/min=
utes-104-bier/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There was a productive discussion in the room. The consensus in the ro=
om, which was confirmed from the list, was that this work will focus on the=
 problem statement first. If one or more unique use-cases are presented tha=
t require a new encoding or encapsulation
 then we can address solutions to these use-case in the associated drafts. =
If these solutions are out of scope of our charter, we can propose changing=
 the charter to include this work at that time, as necessary.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I&#39;m sorry the WG is not moving as fast as you like. I agree with y=
ou. :) We have more than a handful of active drafts ready for WGLC and we c=
an&#39;t get volunteers for Doc Shepherds. Some WGLC email responses were s=
o depressingly low it can&#39;t be considered
 much of a consensus. But it&#39;s what we have and where we are at this ti=
me.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I look forward getting deeper into the use-cases draft this week. Than=
ks for you help and patience.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- Shep</div>
<div>(chairs)</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:40 AM Xieji=
ngrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" rel=3D"noopener norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:1=
0pt">
<div>Dear Greg &amp; Chairs,</div>
<div>I have sent my concerns=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">days ago=
=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">but haven&#39;t got any respons=
e, so I have to use a new title on the mail.</span></div>
<div>I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for &l=
t;draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03&gt; draft, and give up the requested=
 time slot for the other 3 drafts.</div>
<div>I have the following reasons:</div>
<div>(1) I<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">t is the time now to discuss encap=
sulation proposals, to help making=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t">the &lt;bier-ipv6-requirements&gt; more clear.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div>(2) the &lt;bierin6&gt; draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. O=
bviously it is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on t=
he list which I think is serious.</div>
<div>(3)=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">as a cmpromise,=C2=A0</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt">I ack to give up the time slot request on othe=
r 3 drafts. Does that work for you ?</span></div>
<div>(4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorte=
n the presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please let me know your thoughts.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong</div>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);font=
-size:16px">
<hr>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-1492516332519887871gmail-m_4762263837237781353divRpF638=
309" style=3D"direction:ltr"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000=
000"><b>From:</b> BIER [<a href=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" rel=3D"noo=
pener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>] on behalf of
 Greg Shepherd [<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Just updated the agenda:.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e=C2=A0</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg=
 Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for you=
r review (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (uni=
cast to this gmail address).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e=C2=A0</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg =
Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, =
and requested time to this thread.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Shep</div>
<div>(chairs)</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div></div>

--000000000000472fe9058e4b6e16--


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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:07:19 -0400
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Cc: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>,  "bier-ads@ietf.org" <bier-ads@ietf.org>, "bier-chairs@ietf.org" <bier-chairs@ietf.org>
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--000000000000cf35f2058e4b7676
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I only meant natively - as opposed to over MPLS or Ethernet.
There were a couple drafts discussing options at the time.

Of course, Alvaro has the current state and interpretation!

Regards,
Alia

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:05 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for your input. The fact that draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements
> is an adopted WG document should be confirmation that this work is being
> seriously fconsidered by the WG regardless of current charter
> interpretation, just as I've outlined in email here more than once. Seems
> the only remaining concern is the pace of the IETF WG process. Sorry. I too
> wish things move more quickly. I look forward to further discussions on
> Thurs.
>
> Cheers,
> Greg
> (chairs)
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 1:40 PM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Greg,
>>
>> 7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be
>> standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood
>> applicability.
>>
>> As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER
>> is no longer native v6
>> [XJR]
>> Maybe the "natively" in the charter is subjective. Let's think about
>> "BIER in IPv6".
>> BIERv6 is BIER in IPv6 extension header, and BIERin6 is BIER in IPv6
>> payload.
>> Which one do you think is more "native" ? say one is 50% native and one
>> is 60% native?
>> It's clear when this charter text was discussing, we want to have a
>> useful BIER IPv6, instead of limiting ourselves by "native" or not.
>> This can be refered to
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_UoHBrxza7iar8jMjYJg
>> This conclusion above will unnecessarily kill the work we have done on
>> BIERv6 so far, and discourage the work later.
>>
>> Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/
>> [XJR]
>> I have read the minutes many times.. Maybe we went wrong to judge native
>> or not from this. For example here is one of the discussion about native:
>> Because bier uses its own header, no matter how you do it, we cannot call
>> it ipv6 native.
>> From this, the "native" does not really exist. How do we explain the
>> charter text then ?
>>
>> If these solutions are out of scope of our charter, we can propose
>> changing the charter to include this
>> work at that time, as necessary.
>> [XJR]
>> I don't think the BIERv6 is out of our current charter.
>> Quite the contrary, it is the reason why we gether here, thinking,
>> discussion, arguing and producing.
>> The current charter is not a far thing, just a year approximately.
>> Maybe the current AD Alvaro can give us the guidence.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jingrong
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Greg Shepherd [gjshep@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:30
>> *To:* Xiejingrong
>> *Cc:* BIER WG; bier-chairs@ietf.org; bier-ads@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda
>>
>> Jingrong,
>>
>> The agenda stands as a reflection of the decisions of the WG according to
>> our procedures and charter. From the charter:
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/
>>
>> 7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be
>> standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood
>> applicability.
>>
>> As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER
>> is no longer native v6
>>
>> Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/
>>
>> There was a productive discussion in the room. The consensus in the room,
>> which was confirmed from the list, was that this work will focus on the
>> problem statement first. If one or more unique use-cases are presented that
>> require a new encoding or encapsulation then we can address solutions to
>> these use-case in the associated drafts. If these solutions are out of
>> scope of our charter, we can propose changing the charter to include this
>> work at that time, as necessary.
>>
>> I'm sorry the WG is not moving as fast as you like. I agree with you. :)
>> We have more than a handful of active drafts ready for WGLC and we can't
>> get volunteers for Doc Shepherds. Some WGLC email responses were so
>> depressingly low it can't be considered much of a consensus. But it's what
>> we have and where we are at this time.
>>
>> I look forward getting deeper into the use-cases draft this week. Thanks
>> for you help and patience.
>>
>> - Shep
>> (chairs)
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:40 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Greg & Chairs,
>>> I have sent my concerns days ago but haven't got any response, so I
>>> have to use a new title on the mail.
>>> I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for
>>> <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03> draft, and give up the requested
>>> time slot for the other 3 drafts.
>>> I have the following reasons:
>>> (1) It is the time now to discuss encapsulation proposals, to help
>>> making the <bier-ipv6-requirements> more clear.
>>> (2) the <bierin6> draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. Obviously
>>> it is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on the list
>>> which I think is serious.
>>> (3) as a cmpromise, I ack to give up the time slot request on other 3
>>> drafts. Does that work for you ?
>>> (4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorten
>>> the presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes?
>>>
>>> Please let me know your thoughts.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Jingrong
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Greg Shepherd [
>>> gjshep@gmail.com]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08
>>> *To:* BIER WG
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105
>>>
>>> Just updated the agenda:.
>>>
>>> IETF 105, Montreal
>>> BIER WG Agenda
>>>
>>> WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
>>> draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
>>> draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
>>> draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
>>> draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
>>> draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
>>> draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
>>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03
>>>  draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang
>>> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride
>>> - additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
>>> - requirements draft.
>>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
>>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
>>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
>>>   draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for your review
>>>> (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (unicast to
>>>> this gmail address).
>>>>
>>>> IETF 105, Montreal
>>>> BIER WG Agenda
>>>>
>>>> WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
>>>> draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
>>>> draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
>>>> draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
>>>> draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
>>>> draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
>>>> draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
>>>> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride
>>>> - additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
>>>> - requirements draft.
>>>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
>>>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
>>>>   draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
>>>>   draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and
>>>>> requested time to this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Shep
>>>>> (chairs)
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>

--000000000000cf35f2058e4b7676
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I only meant natively - as opposed to over MPLS or Etherne=
t.<div>There were a couple drafts discussing options at the time.</div><div=
><br></div><div>Of course, Alvaro has the current state and interpretation!=
</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Alia</div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 22, 2019=
 at 5:05 PM Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com">gjshep@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Thank you for your input. The=
 fact that=C2=A0draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements is an adopted WG document=
 should be confirmation that this work is being seriously fconsidered by th=
e WG regardless of current charter interpretation, just as I&#39;ve outline=
d in email here more than once. Seems the only remaining concern is the pac=
e of the IETF WG process. Sorry. I too wish things move more quickly. I loo=
k forward to further discussions on Thurs.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,=
</div><div>Greg</div><div>(chairs)</div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 1:40 P=
M Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex">




<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:1=
0pt">
<div>
<div>Dear Greg,</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to u=
se BIER natively in IPv6 may be</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">standardized if coordinated with t=
he 6MAN WG and with understood</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">applicability.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">As of now, the WG has decided that=
 modifying the v6 header to encode BIER</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">is no longer native v6</span></div=
>
<div>[XJR]=C2=A0</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Maybe the &quot;natively&quot; in =
the charter is subjective. Let&#39;s think about &quot;BIER in IPv6&quot;.<=
/span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">BIERv6 is BIER in IPv6 extension h=
eader, and BIERin6 is BIER in IPv6 payload.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Which one do you think is more &qu=
ot;native&quot; ? say one is 50% native and one is 60% native?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">It&#39;s clear when this charter t=
ext was discussing, we want to have a useful BIER IPv6, instead of limiting=
 ourselves by &quot;native&quot; or not.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">This can be refered to <a href=3D"=
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_UoHBrxza7iar8jMjYJg" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_UoHBrxza7=
iar8jMjYJg</a></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">This conclusion above will unneces=
sarily kill the work we have done on BIERv6 so far, and discourage the work=
 later.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Please review the minutes from IET=
F 104 in Prague:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/minutes-104-bier/</a></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">[XJR]</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">I have read the minutes many times=
.. Maybe we went wrong to judge native or not from this. For example here i=
s one of the discussion about native:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Because bier uses its own header, =
no matter how you do it, we cannot call it ipv6 native.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">From this, the &quot;native&quot; =
does not really exist. How do we explain the charter text then ?</span></di=
v>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">If these solutions are out of scop=
e of our charter, we can propose changing the charter to include this</span=
></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">work at that time, as necessary.</=
span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">[XJR]</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">I don&#39;t think the BIERv6 is ou=
t of our current charter.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Quite the contrary, it is the reas=
on why we gether here, thinking, discussion, arguing and producing.</span><=
/div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">The current charter is not a far t=
hing, just a year approximately.=C2=A0=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Maybe the current AD Alvaro can gi=
ve us the guidence.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Thanks</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Jingrong</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);font=
-size:16px">
<hr>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-8186182518230120582gmail-m_-1492516332519887871divRpF22=
664" style=3D"direction:ltr"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000=
000"><b>From:</b> Greg Shepherd [<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:30<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Cc:</b> BIER WG; <a href=3D"mailto:bier-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">bier-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:bier-ads@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">bier-ads@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Tahoma;font-si=
ze:13.3333px">Jingrong,</span><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Tahoma;font-si=
ze:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma">The agenda stands as a=C2=A0re=
flection of the=C2=A0decisions of the WG=C2=A0according to our procedures a=
nd charter. From the charter:</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma"><br>
</font></div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/" rel=3D"noopene=
r noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/=
</a><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma"><br>
</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be</div=
>
<div>standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood</div>
<div>applicability.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode B=
IER is no longer native v6</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/" rel=3D"=
noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/min=
utes-104-bier/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There was a productive discussion in the room. The consensus in the ro=
om, which was confirmed from the list, was that this work will focus on the=
 problem statement first. If one or more unique use-cases are presented tha=
t require a new encoding or encapsulation
 then we can address solutions to these use-case in the associated drafts. =
If these solutions are out of scope of our charter, we can propose changing=
 the charter to include this work at that time, as necessary.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I&#39;m sorry the WG is not moving as fast as you like. I agree with y=
ou. :) We have more than a handful of active drafts ready for WGLC and we c=
an&#39;t get volunteers for Doc Shepherds. Some WGLC email responses were s=
o depressingly low it can&#39;t be considered
 much of a consensus. But it&#39;s what we have and where we are at this ti=
me.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I look forward getting deeper into the use-cases draft this week. Than=
ks for you help and patience.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- Shep</div>
<div>(chairs)</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:40 AM Xieji=
ngrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" rel=3D"noopener norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:1=
0pt">
<div>Dear Greg &amp; Chairs,</div>
<div>I have sent my concerns=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">days ago=
=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">but haven&#39;t got any respons=
e, so I have to use a new title on the mail.</span></div>
<div>I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for &l=
t;draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03&gt; draft, and give up the requested=
 time slot for the other 3 drafts.</div>
<div>I have the following reasons:</div>
<div>(1) I<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">t is the time now to discuss encap=
sulation proposals, to help making=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t">the &lt;bier-ipv6-requirements&gt; more clear.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div>(2) the &lt;bierin6&gt; draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. O=
bviously it is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on t=
he list which I think is serious.</div>
<div>(3)=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">as a cmpromise,=C2=A0</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt">I ack to give up the time slot request on othe=
r 3 drafts. Does that work for you ?</span></div>
<div>(4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorte=
n the presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please let me know your thoughts.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong</div>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);font=
-size:16px">
<hr>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-8186182518230120582gmail-m_-1492516332519887871gmail-m_=
4762263837237781353divRpF638309" style=3D"direction:ltr"><font face=3D"Taho=
ma" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> BIER [<a href=3D"mailto:bier-=
bounces@ietf.org" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bier-bounce=
s@ietf.org</a>] on behalf of
 Greg Shepherd [<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Just updated the agenda:.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e=C2=A0</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg=
 Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for you=
r review (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (uni=
cast to this gmail address).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e=C2=A0</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>=C2=A0 draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg =
Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, =
and requested time to this thread.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Shep</div>
<div>(chairs)</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
BIER mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BIER@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000cf35f2058e4b7676--


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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
CC: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "bier-ads@ietf.org" <bier-ads@ietf.org>, "bier-chairs@ietf.org" <bier-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda
Thread-Index: AQHVQIjArZFTr0UuAE+XzAIjv1F1BqbWb8UAgACpi8b//4G8AIAAAKuAgACIuOQ=
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:36:05 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda
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Thanks Alia very much for the explanation! That's what I understand about "=
natively" word too.

to Greg:
The fact that draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements is an adopted WG document s=
hould be confirmation that this work is being seriously fconsidered by the =
WG regardless of current charter interpretation, just as I've outlined in e=
mail here more than once.
[XJR] That's good!
I apologize if I misunderstand the "the WG has decided that modifying the v=
6 header to encode BIER is no longer native v6".
We should have agreed on the work and drafts, regardless of the "native" in=
terpretation.
And there is no concerns "If these solutions are out of scope of our charte=
r" for me now.
Thanks for the carification.

Seems the only remaining concern is the pace of the IETF WG process.
[XJR] I have no objection to the pace of WG that the chairs think the best.
So I clear the comments on the agenda now.
I would like to discuss only if room decides based on the requirements draf=
t.

Thanks
Jingrong

________________________________
From: Alia Atlas [akatlas@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 5:07
To: Greg Shepherd
Cc: Xiejingrong; BIER WG; bier-ads@ietf.org; bier-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda

I only meant natively - as opposed to over MPLS or Ethernet.
There were a couple drafts discussing options at the time.

Of course, Alvaro has the current state and interpretation!

Regards,
Alia

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:05 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjsh=
ep@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thank you for your input. The fact that draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements i=
s an adopted WG document should be confirmation that this work is being ser=
iously fconsidered by the WG regardless of current charter interpretation, =
just as I've outlined in email here more than once. Seems the only remainin=
g concern is the pace of the IETF WG process. Sorry. I too wish things move=
 more quickly. I look forward to further discussions on Thurs.

Cheers,
Greg
(chairs)

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 1:40 PM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com<mailto:=
xiejingrong@huawei.com>> wrote:
Dear Greg,

7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be
standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood
applicability.

As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER
is no longer native v6
[XJR]
Maybe the "natively" in the charter is subjective. Let's think about "BIER =
in IPv6".
BIERv6 is BIER in IPv6 extension header, and BIERin6 is BIER in IPv6 payloa=
d.
Which one do you think is more "native" ? say one is 50% native and one is =
60% native?
It's clear when this charter text was discussing, we want to have a useful =
BIER IPv6, instead of limiting ourselves by "native" or not.
This can be refered to https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_U=
oHBrxza7iar8jMjYJg
This conclusion above will unnecessarily kill the work we have done on BIER=
v6 so far, and discourage the work later.

Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/
[XJR]
I have read the minutes many times.. Maybe we went wrong to judge native or=
 not from this. For example here is one of the discussion about native:
Because bier uses its own header, no matter how you do it, we cannot call i=
t ipv6 native.
>From this, the "native" does not really exist. How do we explain the charte=
r text then ?

If these solutions are out of scope of our charter, we can propose changing=
 the charter to include this
work at that time, as necessary.
[XJR]
I don't think the BIERv6 is out of our current charter.
Quite the contrary, it is the reason why we gether here, thinking, discussi=
on, arguing and producing.
The current charter is not a far thing, just a year approximately.
Maybe the current AD Alvaro can give us the guidence.

Thanks
Jingrong

________________________________
From: Greg Shepherd [gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjshep@gmail.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:30
To: Xiejingrong
Cc: BIER WG; bier-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:bier-chairs@ietf.org>; bier-ads@ie=
tf.org<mailto:bier-ads@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda

Jingrong,

The agenda stands as a reflection of the decisions of the WG according to o=
ur procedures and charter. From the charter:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/

7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be
standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood
applicability.

As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER i=
s no longer native v6

Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/

There was a productive discussion in the room. The consensus in the room, w=
hich was confirmed from the list, was that this work will focus on the prob=
lem statement first. If one or more unique use-cases are presented that req=
uire a new encoding or encapsulation then we can address solutions to these=
 use-case in the associated drafts. If these solutions are out of scope of =
our charter, we can propose changing the charter to include this work at th=
at time, as necessary.

I'm sorry the WG is not moving as fast as you like. I agree with you. :) We=
 have more than a handful of active drafts ready for WGLC and we can't get =
volunteers for Doc Shepherds. Some WGLC email responses were so depressingl=
y low it can't be considered much of a consensus. But it's what we have and=
 where we are at this time.

I look forward getting deeper into the use-cases draft this week. Thanks fo=
r you help and patience.

- Shep
(chairs)

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:40 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com<mailto:=
xiejingrong@huawei.com>> wrote:
Dear Greg & Chairs,
I have sent my concerns days ago but haven't got any response, so I have to=
 use a new title on the mail.
I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for <draft-=
xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03> draft, and give up the requested time slot =
for the other 3 drafts.
I have the following reasons:
(1) It is the time now to discuss encapsulation proposals, to help making t=
he <bier-ipv6-requirements> more clear.
(2) the <bierin6> draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. Obviously it=
 is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on the list whi=
ch I think is serious.
(3) as a cmpromise, I ack to give up the time slot request on other 3 draft=
s. Does that work for you ?
(4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorten the=
 presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks
Jingrong

________________________________
From: BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>] on behalf =
of Greg Shepherd [gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjshep@gmail.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08
To: BIER WG
Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105

Just updated the agenda:.

IETF 105, Montreal
BIER WG Agenda

WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03
 draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang
draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride
- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
- requirements draft.
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
  draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjs=
hep@gmail.com>> wrote:
I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for your review (below).=
 Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (unicast to this gmai=
l address).

IETF 105, Montreal
BIER WG Agenda

WG Status Update 15mins, chairs
draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang
draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli
draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky
draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert
draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas
draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride
- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above
- requirements draft.
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00
  draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01
  draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjsh=
ep@gmail.com>> wrote:
Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and requested tim=
e to this thread.

Thanks,
Shep
(chairs)
_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org<mailto:BIER@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier

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1">
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</head>
<body fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<div><br>
</div>
Thanks Alia very much for the explanation! That's what I understand about &=
quot;natively&quot; word too.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>to Greg:</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size: 16=
px;">The fact that&nbsp;draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements is an adopted WG =
document should be confirmation that this work is being seriously fconsider=
ed by the WG regardless of current charter interpretation,
 just as I've outlined in email here more than once.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size: 16=
px;">[XJR] That's good!&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size: 16=
px;">I apologize if I misunderstand the &quot;</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 10pt;">the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER&n=
bsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">is no longer native
 v6&quot;.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">We should have agreed on the work and=
 drafts, regardless of the &quot;native&quot; interpretation.&nbsp;</span><=
/div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">And there is no concerns &quot;</span=
><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">If these solutions are out of scope of ou=
r charter&quot; for me now.</span></div>
<div>Thanks for the carification.</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size: 16=
px;">Seems the only remaining concern is the pace of the IETF WG process.</=
span><br>
<div>[XJR] I have no objection to the pace of WG that the chairs think the =
best.</div>
<div>So I clear the comments on the agenda now.&nbsp;</div>
<div>I would like to <span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;; font-size: 16px;">
discuss only if room decides based on the&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-f=
amily: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size: 16px;">requirements draft.</=
span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size: 16=
px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size: 16=
px;">Thanks</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size: 16=
px;">Jingrong</span></div>
<div><br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF104323" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si=
ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Alia Atlas [akatlas@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 23, 2019 5:07<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Shepherd<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Xiejingrong; BIER WG; bier-ads@ietf.org; bier-chairs@ietf.org<br=
>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I only meant natively - as opposed to over MPLS or Etherne=
t.
<div>There were a couple drafts discussing options at the time.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Of course, Alvaro has the current state and interpretation!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Alia</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:05 PM Greg =
Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
oopener noreferrer">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Thank you for your input. The fact that&nbsp;draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requ=
irements is an adopted WG document should be confirmation that this work is=
 being seriously fconsidered by the WG regardless of current charter interp=
retation, just as I've outlined in email
 here more than once. Seems the only remaining concern is the pace of the I=
ETF WG process. Sorry. I too wish things move more quickly. I look forward =
to further discussions on Thurs.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div>(chairs)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 1:40 PM Xieji=
ngrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma; color:rgb(0,0,0); font-siz=
e:10pt">
<div>
<div>Dear Greg,</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to u=
se BIER natively in IPv6 may be</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">standardized if coordinated with t=
he 6MAN WG and with understood</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">applicability.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">As of now, the WG has decided that=
 modifying the v6 header to encode BIER</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">is no longer native v6</span></div=
>
<div>[XJR]&nbsp;</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Maybe the &quot;natively&quot; in =
the charter is subjective. Let's think about &quot;BIER in IPv6&quot;.</spa=
n></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">BIERv6 is BIER in IPv6 extension h=
eader, and BIERin6 is BIER in IPv6 payload.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Which one do you think is more &qu=
ot;native&quot; ? say one is 50% native and one is 60% native?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">It's clear when this charter text =
was discussing, we want to have a useful BIER IPv6, instead of limiting our=
selves by &quot;native&quot; or not.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">This can be refered to <a href=3D"=
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_UoHBrxza7iar8jMjYJg" tar=
get=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_UoHBrxza7iar8jMjYJg</a><=
/span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">This conclusion above will unneces=
sarily kill the work we have done on BIERv6 so far, and discourage the work=
 later.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Please review the minutes from IET=
F 104 in Prague:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/</a></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">[XJR]</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">I have read the minutes many times=
.. Maybe we went wrong to judge native or not from this. For example here i=
s one of the discussion about native:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Because bier uses its own header, =
no matter how you do it, we cannot call it ipv6 native.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">From this, the &quot;native&quot; =
does not really exist. How do we explain the charter text then ?</span></di=
v>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">If these solutions are out of scop=
e of our charter, we can propose changing the charter to include this</span=
></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">work at that time, as necessary.</=
span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">[XJR]</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">I don't think the BIERv6 is out of=
 our current charter.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Quite the contrary, it is the reas=
on why we gether here, thinking, discussion, arguing and producing.</span><=
/div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">The current charter is not a far t=
hing, just a year approximately.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Maybe the current AD Alvaro can gi=
ve us the guidence.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Thanks</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Jingrong</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;; color:rgb(0,0,0); fo=
nt-size:16px">
<hr>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-8186182518230120582gmail-m_-1492516332519887871divRpF22=
664" style=3D"direction:ltr">
<font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Greg Shephe=
rd [<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener n=
oreferrer">gjshep@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:30<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Cc:</b> BIER WG; <a href=3D"mailto:bier-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">
bier-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:bier-ads@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">
bier-ads@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Tahoma; font-=
size:13.3333px">Jingrong,</span><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Tahoma; font-=
size:13.3333px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma">The agenda stands as a&nbsp;re=
flection of the&nbsp;decisions of the WG&nbsp;according to our procedures a=
nd charter. From the charter:</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma"><br>
</font></div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/" rel=3D"noopene=
r noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/=
</a><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma"><br>
</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be</div=
>
<div>standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood</div>
<div>applicability.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode B=
IER is no longer native v6</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/" rel=3D"=
noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/min=
utes-104-bier/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There was a productive discussion in the room. The consensus in the ro=
om, which was confirmed from the list, was that this work will focus on the=
 problem statement first. If one or more unique use-cases are presented tha=
t require a new encoding or encapsulation
 then we can address solutions to these use-case in the associated drafts. =
If these solutions are out of scope of our charter, we can propose changing=
 the charter to include this work at that time, as necessary.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm sorry the WG is not moving as fast as you like. I agree with you. =
:) We have more than a handful of active drafts ready for WGLC and we can't=
 get volunteers for Doc Shepherds. Some WGLC email responses were so depres=
singly low it can't be considered
 much of a consensus. But it's what we have and where we are at this time.<=
/div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I look forward getting deeper into the use-cases draft this week. Than=
ks for you help and patience.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- Shep</div>
<div>(chairs)</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:40 AM Xieji=
ngrong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" rel=3D"noopener norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma; color:rgb(0,0,0); font-siz=
e:10pt">
<div>Dear Greg &amp; Chairs,</div>
<div>I have sent my concerns&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">days ago&n=
bsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">but haven't got any response, so =
I have to use a new title on the mail.</span></div>
<div>I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for &l=
t;draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03&gt; draft, and give up the requested=
 time slot for the other 3 drafts.</div>
<div>I have the following reasons:</div>
<div>(1) I<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">t is the time now to discuss encap=
sulation proposals, to help making&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t">the &lt;bier-ipv6-requirements&gt; more clear.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div>(2) the &lt;bierin6&gt; draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. O=
bviously it is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on t=
he list which I think is serious.</div>
<div>(3)&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:10pt">as a cmpromise,&nbsp;</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt">I ack to give up the time slot request on othe=
r 3 drafts. Does that work for you ?</span></div>
<div>(4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorte=
n the presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please let me know your thoughts.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong</div>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;; color:rgb(0,0,0); fo=
nt-size:16px">
<hr>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-8186182518230120582gmail-m_-1492516332519887871gmail-m_=
4762263837237781353divRpF638309" style=3D"direction:ltr">
<font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> BIER [<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>] on behalf of Greg Shepherd [<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">gjshep=
@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Just updated the agenda:.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e&nbsp;</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg=
 Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for you=
r review (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (uni=
cast to this gmail address).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IETF 105, Montreal</div>
<div>BIER WG Agenda</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WG Status Update 15mins, chairs</div>
<div>draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang</div>
<div>draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen</div=
>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas</div>
<div>draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride</div>
<div>- additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the abov=
e&nbsp;</div>
<div>- requirements draft.</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01</div>
<div>&nbsp; draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg =
Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, =
and requested time to this thread.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Shep</div>
<div>(chairs)</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
BIER mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferr=
er">BIER@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB90A025nkgeml514mbschi_--


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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments on <draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02>
Thread-Index: AdVA22plhBGDvUW3TOaz0cghOQgEWw==
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:20:45 +0000
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Subject: [Bier] Comments on <draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02>
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Hi,
I have some comments on this draft below:

     This can easily be prevented if BFR1 does an SPF calculation with the
     helper BFRx as the root.  For any BFERn reached via X from BFR1, if
     BFRx's SPF path to BFERn includes BFR1 then BFR1 must not use the
     helper.  Instead, BFR1 must directly tunnel packets for BFERn to X's
     BFR (grand-)child on BFR1's SPF path to BFERn, per section 6.9 of
     [RFC8279].

     In the following example, there is a connection between BFR1 and
     BFRx.  If the link metrics are all 1 on the three sides of
     BFR1-X-BFRx triangle, loop won't happen
[XJR]
This is an example of static condition. There may be some dynamic condition=
s too.
For example, the link BFRx-x goes down, and the original tunnel from BFR1 t=
o BFRx will cause loop.
the tunnel will destroy and packet may lose (which wouldn't in this topolog=
y if not using the method).

           but if the BFRx-X metric is 3
     while other two sides of the triangle has metric 1 then BFRx will
     send BIER packets tunneled to it from BFR1 back to BFR1, causing a loo=
p.
[XJR]
As above, when BFRx-X metric changes from 1 to 3, there may be packet loss =
too.
I mean the additional caculation is required not only at the first time, bu=
t at time when configuration/link-state changes.
If the BFR1 is a Non-BIER router1, then BFER1 has to tunnel to BFRx, and th=
is procedure can not  share the LFA caculation.
Is the load of additional caculation a concern ?

Thanks
Jingrong


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<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"></style>
</head>
<body fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">Hi,</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">I have some comments on this dra=
ft below:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp;<span style=3D"white-space=
:pre"> </span>&nbsp; &nbsp;This can easily be prevented if BFR1 does an SPF=
 calculation with the<span style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp;<span style=3D"white-space=
:pre"> </span>&nbsp; &nbsp;helper BFRx as the root.&nbsp; For any BFERn rea=
ched via X from BFR1, if<span style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp;<span style=3D"white-space=
:pre"> </span>&nbsp; &nbsp;BFRx's SPF path to BFERn includes BFR1 then BFR1=
 must not use the<span style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp;<span style=3D"white-space=
:pre"> </span>&nbsp; &nbsp;helper.&nbsp; Instead, BFR1 must directly tunnel=
 packets for BFERn to X's<span style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp;<span style=3D"white-space=
:pre"> </span>&nbsp; &nbsp;BFR (grand-)child on BFR1's SPF path to BFERn, p=
er section 6.9 of<span style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp;<span style=3D"white-space=
:pre"> </span>&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC8279].</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp;<span style=3D"white-space=
:pre"> </span>&nbsp; &nbsp;In the following example, there is a connection =
between BFR1 and<span style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp;<span style=3D"white-space=
:pre"> </span>&nbsp; &nbsp;BFRx.&nbsp; If the link metrics are all 1 on the=
 three sides of<span style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp;<span style=3D"white-space=
:pre"> </span>&nbsp; &nbsp;BFR1-X-BFRx triangle, loop won't happen</span></=
div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">This is an example of static con=
dition. There may be some dynamic conditions too.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">For example, the link BFRx-x goe=
s down, and the original tunnel from BFR1 to BFRx will cause loop.&nbsp;</s=
pan></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">the tunnel will destroy and pack=
et may lose (which wouldn't in this topology if not using the method).</spa=
n></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp;but if the BFRx-X metric is 3<span style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp;<span style=3D"white-space=
:pre"> </span>&nbsp; &nbsp;while other two sides of the triangle has metric=
 1 then BFRx will<span style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">&nbsp;<span style=3D"white-space=
:pre"> </span>&nbsp; &nbsp;send BIER packets tunneled to it from BFR1 back =
to BFR1, causing a loop.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">[XJR]&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">As above, when BFRx-X metric cha=
nges from 1 to 3, there may be packet loss too.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px;">I mean the additional caculation=
 is required not only at the first time, but at time when configuration/lin=
k-state changes.</span></div>
<div>If the BFR1 is a Non-BIER router1, then BFER1 has to tunnel to BFRx, a=
nd this procedure can not&nbsp; share the LFA caculation.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div>Is the load of additional caculation a concern ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
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From: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/6fKep8iAd_qjN1zxqSwNlQt49mM>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on <draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling-00>
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Thanks for comments Jingrong

Inline HB>

Regards

Hooman

From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Xiejingrong
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 11:22 PM
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on <draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling-00>

correction:
it's on draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier-00
sorry for the typo.
From:Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com<mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com>>
To:BIER WG <bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>>
Date:2019-07-17 23:10:45
Subject:[Bier] Comments on

Hi
I have read the draft and think it looks far better by using multi-hop tLDP=
 session than the complex mechanism that I had not understand well in previ=
ous draft.
some comments/questions below:

3.2. EBBR procedure method

   The Egress BBR (EBBR) is connected to the mLDP domain which the root
   of the P2MP or MP2MP LSP resides on. The EBBR should accept the tLDP
   session and assign a upstream assigned label for arriving FEC.

   The EBBR should follow the [RFC7060] procedures with following
   modifications:
[XJR] the following procedures follow 7060 or 7389 ?

HB> follows 7060 not sure what does 7389 has to do with this.

   - The label assigned by EBBR cannot be Implicit Null. This is to
   ensure that identity of each p2mp and/or mp2mp tunnel in BIER domain
   is uniquely distinguished.

   - The label can be assigned from a domain-wide Common Block (DCB) [I-
   D.zzhang-bess-mvpn-evpn-aggregation-label], as well as upstream
   assigned.

   - The Interface ID TLV [RFC6389]includes a new BIER sub-domain sub-
   tlv (type TBD)
[XJR] this Interface ID TLV is carried in message from EBBR(BFIR) to IBBR(B=
FERs)?

HB> this is part of TLDP signaling

   With same token the EBBR should track all the arriving FECs and the
   IBBRs that are generating these FECs. EBBR will use this information
   to build the bier header for each set of common FEC arriving from the
   IBBRs.
[XJR] How does EBBR track the IBBRs?
[XJR] Let me imagine:
(1) IBBR(BFER) receive the mLDP Mapping from downstream LSR, and send a xxx=
 message to EBBR(BFIR).
(2) EBBR(BFIR) send a LDP Mapping message (with Upstream-Assigned Label Req=
uest TLV) to all its tLDP neighbors ?
(3) BFIR should tell the BFERs the upstrea-assigned Label, and the Sub-doma=
in, and the BFIR-id at least I guess.
Is that right ?
What's the xxx message (in case the tLDP is static configured, in case the =
tLDP is dynamicly established)?
Thinking of the information need to carry in the LDP message, there will be=
 MPLS WG be considered more.

HB> we can talk about this in person after BIER WG? But basically this impl=
ementation, for an specific upstream assigned label on BFIR, all the TLDP P=
EERs (BFERs) that have requested for that label should be noted. The TLDP P=
EER session IP can be used to correlate it to a BIER prefix (BFER) for buil=
ding the BIER header.
We might need to beef up the draft with a bit more explanation here.

4. Datapath Forwarding

4.1. Datapath traffic flow

   On BFIR when the MPLS label for P2MP/MP2MP LSP arrives a lookup in
   ILM table is done and the label is swapped with tLDP upstream
   assigned label. The BFIR will note all the BFERs that are interested
   in specific p2mp/mp2mp LSP (as per section 3.2). BFIR will put the
   corresponding BIER header with bit index set for all IBBRs interested
   in this P2MP LSP. BFIR will set the  BIERHeader.Proto =3D MPLS and will
   forward the BIER packet into BIER domain.
[XJR] is there a proper BFIR-id value to be mentioned ?

HB> the BFIR should have a list of all BFERs that are interested so you are=
 probably correct that in the draft we need to mention that the targeted LD=
P session setup should be in sync with BIER prefix used.  If they are then =
the TLDP Peer and the FEC can be used to find all the BFERs.
I will add more details about this in next version of the draft, Thank you!


Thanks
Jingrong


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks fo=
r comments
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">Jingrong&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Inline HB=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hooman<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> BIER &lt;bier-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2019 11:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG &lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Comments on &lt;draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling-00&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">correction: <br>
it's on draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier-00 <br>
sorry for the typo.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:6.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm" name=3D"AnyOffice-Background-Image">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>From:</b>Xiejingro=
ng &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>To:</b>BIER WG &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Date:</b>2019-07-1=
7 23:10:45<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Subject:</b>[Bier]=
 Comments on
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Hi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">I have read the draft and think it looks=
 far better by using multi-hop tLDP session than the complex mechanism that=
 I had not understand well in previous draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">some comments/questions below:<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">3.2. EBBR procedure method&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;The Egress BBR (EBBR) is co=
nnected to the mLDP domain which the root<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;of the P2MP or MP2MP LSP re=
sides on. The EBBR should accept the tLDP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;session and assign a upstre=
am assigned label for arriving FEC.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;The EBBR should follow the =
[RFC7060] procedures with following<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;modifications:<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">[XJR] the following procedures follow 70=
60 or 7389 ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">HB&gt; follows 7060 not sure what does 7389 has to d=
o with this.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;- The label assigned by EBB=
R cannot be Implicit Null. This is to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;ensure that identity of eac=
h p2mp and/or mp2mp tunnel in BIER domain<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;is uniquely distinguished.&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;- The label can be assigned=
 from a domain-wide Common Block (DCB) [I-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;D.zzhang-bess-mvpn-evpn-agg=
regation-label], as well as upstream<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;assigned.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;- The Interface ID TLV [RFC=
6389]includes a new BIER sub-domain sub-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;tlv (type TBD)<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">[XJR] this Interface ID TLV is carried i=
n message from EBBR(BFIR) to IBBR(BFERs)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">HB&gt; this is part of TLDP signaling<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;With same token the EBBR sh=
ould track all the arriving FECs and the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;IBBRs that are generating t=
hese FECs. EBBR will use this information<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;to build the bier header fo=
r each set of common FEC arriving from the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;IBBRs.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">[XJR] How does EBBR track the IBBRs?&nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">[XJR] Let me imagine:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">(1) IBBR(BFER) receive the mLDP Mapping =
from downstream LSR, and send a xxx message to EBBR(BFIR).<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">(2) EBBR(BFIR) send a LDP Mapping messag=
e (with Upstream-Assigned Label Request TLV) to all its tLDP neighbors ?<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">(3) BFIR should tell the BFERs the upstr=
ea-assigned Label, and the Sub-domain, and
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:blue">the BFIR-id</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"> at least I guess.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Is that right ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">What's the xxx message (in case the tLDP=
 is static configured, in case the tLDP is dynamicly established)?<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Thinking of the information need to carr=
y in the LDP message, there will be MPLS WG be considered more.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">HB&gt; we can talk about this in person =
after BIER WG? But basically this implementation, for an specific upstream =
assigned label on BFIR, all the TLDP PEERs (BFERs)
 that have requested for that label should be noted. The TLDP PEER session =
IP can be used to correlate it to a BIER prefix (BFER) for building the BIE=
R header.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">We might need to beef up the draft with =
a bit more explanation here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">4. Datapath Forwarding<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">4.1. Datapath traffic flow<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;On BFIR when the MPLS label=
 for P2MP/MP2MP LSP arrives a lookup in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;ILM table is done and the l=
abel is swapped with tLDP upstream<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;assigned label. The BFIR wi=
ll note all the BFERs that are interested<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;in specific p2mp/mp2mp LSP =
(as per section 3.2). BFIR will put the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;corresponding BIER header w=
ith bit index set for all IBBRs interested<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;in this P2MP LSP. BFIR will=
 set the&nbsp; BIERHeader.Proto =3D MPLS and will<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;forward the BIER packet int=
o BIER domain.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">[XJR] is there a proper BFIR-id value to=
 be mentioned ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">HB&gt; the BFIR should have a list of al=
l BFERs that are interested so you are probably correct that in the draft w=
e need to mention that the targeted LDP session setup
 should be in sync with BIER prefix used. &nbsp;If they are then the TLDP P=
eer and the FEC can be used to find all the BFERs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">I will add more details about this in ne=
xt version of the draft, Thank you!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Jingrong&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments on <draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02>
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:05:18 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/_bfXdZDMzJVhV7yYBRTPWBZDiko>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on <draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02>
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Please see zzh> below.



Juniper Business Use Only
From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Xiejingrong
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 6:21 PM
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Subject: [Bier] Comments on <draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02>

Hi,
I have some comments on this draft below:

     This can easily be prevented if BFR1 does an SPF calculation with the

     helper BFRx as the root.  For any BFERn reached via X from BFR1, if

     BFRx's SPF path to BFERn includes BFR1 then BFR1 must not use the

     helper.  Instead, BFR1 must directly tunnel packets for BFERn to X's

     BFR (grand-)child on BFR1's SPF path to BFERn, per section 6.9 of

     [RFC8279].

     In the following example, there is a connection between BFR1 and

     BFRx.  If the link metrics are all 1 on the three sides of

     BFR1-X-BFRx triangle, loop won't happen
[XJR]
This is an example of static condition. There may be some dynamic condition=
s too.
For example, the link BFRx-x goes down, and the original tunnel from BFR1 t=
o BFRx will cause loop.
the tunnel will destroy and packet may lose (which wouldn't in this topolog=
y if not using the method).

           but if the BFRx-X metric is 3

     while other two sides of the triangle has metric 1 then BFRx will

     send BIER packets tunneled to it from BFR1 back to BFR1, causing a loo=
p.
[XJR]
As above, when BFRx-X metric changes from 1 to 3, there may be packet loss =
too.
I mean the additional caculation is required not only at the first time, bu=
t at time when configuration/link-state changes.

Zzh> That's expected. Same with LFA situation.

If the BFR1 is a Non-BIER router1, then BFER1 has to tunnel to BFRx, and th=
is procedure can not  share the LFA caculation.
Is the load of additional caculation a concern ?

Zzh> I assume you meant that in the following:

                             ------ BFR2 ------- BFER2
                            /
     BFER1---non-BFR1 ---- X ------- BFR3 ------- BFER3
                   \      / \  .........
                    \    /   \
                     BFRx    ------ BFRn ------- BFERn

Zzh> Because BFRx is not directly connected to BFER1, there is no need to d=
o an LFA calculation for BFRx, so doing a BIER-loop-detection calculation w=
ith BFRx is extra burden.
Zzh> If that extra calculation is your concern, then you would be concerned=
 with LFA as well - a router needs to do LFA-loop-detection calculation for=
 all its protection neighbors and there could be many of them (in this pict=
ure as long as there is a BFER1-BFRx connection it needs a LFA-loop-detecti=
on calculation for BFRx).
Zzh> Jeffrey


Thanks
Jingrong


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please see zzh&gt; below.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;margin=
-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> BIER &lt;bier-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>
Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 22, 2019 6:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG &lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bier] Comments on &lt;draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">I have some comments on this draft below=
:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;This can easily be p=
revented if BFR1 does an SPF calculation with the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;helper BFRx as the r=
oot.&nbsp; For any BFERn reached via X from BFR1, if<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;BFRx's SPF path to B=
FERn includes BFR1 then BFR1 must not use the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;helper.&nbsp; Instea=
d, BFR1 must directly tunnel packets for BFERn to X's<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;BFR (grand-)child on=
 BFR1's SPF path to BFERn, per section 6.9 of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC8279].<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;In the following exa=
mple, there is a connection between BFR1 and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;BFRx.&nbsp; If the l=
ink metrics are all 1 on the three sides of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;BFR1-X-BFRx triangle=
, loop won't happen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">[XJR]&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">This is an example of static condition. =
There may be some dynamic conditions too.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">For example, the link BFRx-x goes down, =
and the original tunnel from BFR1 to BFRx will cause loop.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">the tunnel will destroy and packet may l=
ose (which wouldn't in this topology if not using the method).<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;but if the BFRx-X metric is 3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;while other two side=
s of the triangle has metric 1 then BFRx will<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;send BIER packets tu=
nneled to it from BFR1 back to BFR1, causing a loop.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">[XJR]&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">As above, when BFRx-X metric changes fro=
m 1 to 3, there may be packet loss too.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">I mean the additional caculation is requ=
ired not only at the first time, but at time when configuration/link-state =
changes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; That&#8217;s expected. Same with LFA situati=
on.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">If the BFR1 is a Non-BIER router1, then =
BFER1 has to tunnel to BFRx, and this procedure can not&nbsp; share the LFA=
 caculation.&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Is the load of additional caculation a c=
oncern ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; I assume you meant that in the following:<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;------ BFR2 ------- BFER2<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;BFER1---non-BFR1 ----=
 X ------- BFR3 ------- BFER3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; / \&nbsp; .........<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; /&nbsp;&nbsp; \<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
BFRx&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ------ BFRn ------- BFERn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; Because BFRx is not directly connected to BF=
ER1, there is no need to do an LFA calculation for BFRx, so doing a BIER-lo=
op-detection calculation with BFRx is extra burden.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; If that extra calculation is your concern, t=
hen you would be concerned with LFA as well &#8211; a router needs to do LF=
A-loop-detection calculation for all its protection neighbors and there cou=
ld be many of them (in this picture as long
 as there is a BFER1-BFRx connection it needs a LFA-loop-detection calculat=
ion for BFRx).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Jingrong<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments on <draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02>
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Thanks for the clarification.
Works for me.

Jingrong

________________________________
From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [zzhang@juniper.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 3:05
To: Xiejingrong; BIER WG
Subject: RE: Comments on <draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02>

Please see zzh> below.



Juniper Business Use Only
From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Xiejingrong
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 6:21 PM
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Subject: [Bier] Comments on <draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02>

Hi,
I have some comments on this draft below:

     This can easily be prevented if BFR1 does an SPF calculation with the

     helper BFRx as the root.  For any BFERn reached via X from BFR1, if

     BFRx's SPF path to BFERn includes BFR1 then BFR1 must not use the

     helper.  Instead, BFR1 must directly tunnel packets for BFERn to X's

     BFR (grand-)child on BFR1's SPF path to BFERn, per section 6.9 of

     [RFC8279].

     In the following example, there is a connection between BFR1 and

     BFRx.  If the link metrics are all 1 on the three sides of

     BFR1-X-BFRx triangle, loop won't happen
[XJR]
This is an example of static condition. There may be some dynamic condition=
s too.
For example, the link BFRx-x goes down, and the original tunnel from BFR1 t=
o BFRx will cause loop.
the tunnel will destroy and packet may lose (which wouldn't in this topolog=
y if not using the method).

           but if the BFRx-X metric is 3

     while other two sides of the triangle has metric 1 then BFRx will

     send BIER packets tunneled to it from BFR1 back to BFR1, causing a loo=
p.
[XJR]
As above, when BFRx-X metric changes from 1 to 3, there may be packet loss =
too.
I mean the additional caculation is required not only at the first time, bu=
t at time when configuration/link-state changes.

Zzh> That=92s expected. Same with LFA situation.

If the BFR1 is a Non-BIER router1, then BFER1 has to tunnel to BFRx, and th=
is procedure can not  share the LFA caculation.
Is the load of additional caculation a concern ?

Zzh> I assume you meant that in the following:

                             ------ BFR2 ------- BFER2
                            /
     BFER1---non-BFR1 ---- X ------- BFR3 ------- BFER3
                   \      / \  .........
                    \    /   \
                     BFRx    ------ BFRn ------- BFERn

Zzh> Because BFRx is not directly connected to BFER1, there is no need to d=
o an LFA calculation for BFRx, so doing a BIER-loop-detection calculation w=
ith BFRx is extra burden.
Zzh> If that extra calculation is your concern, then you would be concerned=
 with LFA as well =96 a router needs to do LFA-loop-detection calculation f=
or all its protection neighbors and there could be many of them (in this pi=
cture as long as there is a BFER1-BFRx connection it needs a LFA-loop-detec=
tion calculation for BFRx).
Zzh> Jeffrey


Thanks
Jingrong


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=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">Thanks for the clarification.
<div>Works for me.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jingrong</div>
<div><br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF948170" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si=
ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [zzhang@jun=
iper.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 24, 2019 3:05<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong; BIER WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Comments on &lt;draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02&gt;<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please see zzh&gt; below.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in; margi=
n-bottom:.0001pt; text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt; color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> BIER &lt;bier-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>
Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 22, 2019 6:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG &lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bier] Comments on &lt;draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02&gt;</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Hi,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">I have some comments on this draft bel=
ow:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;This can easily be=
 prevented if BFR1 does an SPF calculation with the</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;helper BFRx as the=
 root.&nbsp; For any BFERn reached via X from BFR1, if</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;BFRx's SPF path to=
 BFERn includes BFR1 then BFR1 must not use the</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;helper.&nbsp; Inst=
ead, BFR1 must directly tunnel packets for BFERn to X's</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;BFR (grand-)child =
on BFR1's SPF path to BFERn, per section 6.9 of</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC8279].</span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;In the following e=
xample, there is a connection between BFR1 and</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;BFRx.&nbsp; If the=
 link metrics are all 1 on the three sides of</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;BFR1-X-BFRx triang=
le, loop won't happen</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">[XJR]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">This is an example of static condition=
. There may be some dynamic conditions too.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">For example, the link BFRx-x goes down=
, and the original tunnel from BFR1 to BFRx will cause loop.&nbsp;</span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">the tunnel will destroy and packet may=
 lose (which wouldn't in this topology if not using the method).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp;but if the BFRx-X metric is 3</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;while other two si=
des of the triangle has metric 1 then BFRx will</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;send BIER packets =
tunneled to it from BFR1 back to BFR1, causing a loop.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">[XJR]&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">As above, when BFRx-X metric changes f=
rom 1 to 3, there may be packet loss too.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">I mean the additional caculation is re=
quired not only at the first time, but at time when configuration/link-stat=
e changes.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; That=92s expected. Same with LFA situation.<=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">If the BFR1 is a Non-BIER router1, the=
n BFER1 has to tunnel to BFRx, and this procedure can not&nbsp; share the L=
FA caculation.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Is the load of additional caculation a=
 concern ?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; I assume you meant that in the following:</p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;------ BFR2 ------- BFER2=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;BFER1---non-BFR1 --=
-- X ------- BFR3 ------- BFER3</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; / \&nbsp; .........</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /&nbsp;&nbsp; \</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;BFRx&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ------ BFRn ------- BFERn</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; Because BFRx is not directly connected to BF=
ER1, there is no need to do an LFA calculation for BFRx, so doing a BIER-lo=
op-detection calculation with BFRx is extra burden.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; If that extra calculation is your concern, t=
hen you would be concerned with LFA as well =96 a router needs to do LFA-lo=
op-detection calculation for all its protection neighbors and there could b=
e many of them (in this picture as long
 as there is a BFER1-BFRx connection it needs a LFA-loop-detection calculat=
ion for BFRx).</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Zzh&gt; Jeffrey</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Thanks</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Jingrong</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] Comments on <draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling-00>
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Hi Hooman,
Thanks for the response.
we can talk about this in person after BIER WG?
=3D>Sure.
We might need to beef up the draft with a bit more explanation here.
=3D>Alright.

Jingrong.

________________________________
From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) [hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 23:38
To: Xiejingrong; BIER WG
Subject: RE: [Bier] Comments on <draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling-00>

Thanks for comments Jingrong

Inline HB>

Regards

Hooman

From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Xiejingrong
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 11:22 PM
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on <draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling-00>

correction:
it's on draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier-00
sorry for the typo.
From:Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com<mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com>>
To:BIER WG <bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>>
Date:2019-07-17 23:10:45
Subject:[Bier] Comments on

Hi
I have read the draft and think it looks far better by using multi-hop tLDP=
 session than the complex mechanism that I had not understand well in previ=
ous draft.
some comments/questions below:

3.2. EBBR procedure method

   The Egress BBR (EBBR) is connected to the mLDP domain which the root
   of the P2MP or MP2MP LSP resides on. The EBBR should accept the tLDP
   session and assign a upstream assigned label for arriving FEC.

   The EBBR should follow the [RFC7060] procedures with following
   modifications:
[XJR] the following procedures follow 7060 or 7389 ?

HB> follows 7060 not sure what does 7389 has to do with this.

   - The label assigned by EBBR cannot be Implicit Null. This is to
   ensure that identity of each p2mp and/or mp2mp tunnel in BIER domain
   is uniquely distinguished.

   - The label can be assigned from a domain-wide Common Block (DCB) [I-
   D.zzhang-bess-mvpn-evpn-aggregation-label], as well as upstream
   assigned.

   - The Interface ID TLV [RFC6389]includes a new BIER sub-domain sub-
   tlv (type TBD)
[XJR] this Interface ID TLV is carried in message from EBBR(BFIR) to IBBR(B=
FERs)?

HB> this is part of TLDP signaling

   With same token the EBBR should track all the arriving FECs and the
   IBBRs that are generating these FECs. EBBR will use this information
   to build the bier header for each set of common FEC arriving from the
   IBBRs.
[XJR] How does EBBR track the IBBRs?
[XJR] Let me imagine:
(1) IBBR(BFER) receive the mLDP Mapping from downstream LSR, and send a xxx=
 message to EBBR(BFIR).
(2) EBBR(BFIR) send a LDP Mapping message (with Upstream-Assigned Label Req=
uest TLV) to all its tLDP neighbors ?
(3) BFIR should tell the BFERs the upstrea-assigned Label, and the Sub-doma=
in, and the BFIR-id at least I guess.
Is that right ?
What's the xxx message (in case the tLDP is static configured, in case the =
tLDP is dynamicly established)?
Thinking of the information need to carry in the LDP message, there will be=
 MPLS WG be considered more.

HB> we can talk about this in person after BIER WG? But basically this impl=
ementation, for an specific upstream assigned label on BFIR, all the TLDP P=
EERs (BFERs) that have requested for that label should be noted. The TLDP P=
EER session IP can be used to correlate it to a BIER prefix (BFER) for buil=
ding the BIER header.
We might need to beef up the draft with a bit more explanation here.

4. Datapath Forwarding

4.1. Datapath traffic flow

   On BFIR when the MPLS label for P2MP/MP2MP LSP arrives a lookup in
   ILM table is done and the label is swapped with tLDP upstream
   assigned label. The BFIR will note all the BFERs that are interested
   in specific p2mp/mp2mp LSP (as per section 3.2). BFIR will put the
   corresponding BIER header with bit index set for all IBBRs interested
   in this P2MP LSP. BFIR will set the  BIERHeader.Proto =3D MPLS and will
   forward the BIER packet into BIER domain.
[XJR] is there a proper BFIR-id value to be mentioned ?

HB> the BFIR should have a list of all BFERs that are interested so you are=
 probably correct that in the draft we need to mention that the targeted LD=
P session setup should be in sync with BIER prefix used.  If they are then =
the TLDP Peer and the FEC can be used to find all the BFERs.
I will add more details about this in next version of the draft, Thank you!


Thanks
Jingrong


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<body lang=3D"EN-CA" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=
=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<div>Hi Hooman,</div>
<div>Thanks for the response.</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">we can talk about thi=
s in person after BIER WG?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">=3D&gt;Sure.&nbsp;</s=
pan></div>
<span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">We might need to beef up t=
he draft with a bit more explanation here.</span>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">=3D&gt;Alright.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">Jingrong.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif"><br>
</font>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF583083" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si=
ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)=
 [hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 23, 2019 23:38<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong; BIER WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bier] Comments on &lt;draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling-00&=
gt;<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Thanks for comments </span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:b=
lack">Jingrong&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Inline HB&gt;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D""><br>
Regards</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Hooman</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0c=
m 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> BIER &lt;bier-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 17, 2019 11:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG &lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bier] Comments on &lt;draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling-00&=
gt;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">correction: <br>
it's on draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier-00 <br>
sorry for the typo.</p>
</div>
<div name=3D"AnyOffice-Background-Image" style=3D"border:none; border-top:s=
olid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:6.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>From:</b>Xiejingro=
ng &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
oopener noreferrer">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>To:</b>BIER WG &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener norefer=
rer">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Date:</b>2019-07-1=
7 23:10:45</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-all"><b>Subject:</b>[Bier]=
 Comments on
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Hi</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">I have read the draft and think it loo=
ks far better by using multi-hop tLDP session than the complex mechanism th=
at I had not understand well in previous draft.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">some comments/questions below:</span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">3.2. EBBR procedure method&nbsp;</span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;The Egress BBR (EBBR) is =
connected to the mLDP domain which the root</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;of the P2MP or MP2MP LSP =
resides on. The EBBR should accept the tLDP</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;session and assign a upst=
ream assigned label for arriving FEC.&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;The EBBR should follow th=
e [RFC7060] procedures with following</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;modifications:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">[XJR] the following procedures follow =
7060 or 7389 ?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">HB&gt; follows 7060 not sure what does 7389 has to d=
o with this.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;- The label assigned by E=
BBR cannot be Implicit Null. This is to</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;ensure that identity of e=
ach p2mp and/or mp2mp tunnel in BIER domain</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;is uniquely distinguished=
.&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;- The label can be assign=
ed from a domain-wide Common Block (DCB) [I-</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;D.zzhang-bess-mvpn-evpn-a=
ggregation-label], as well as upstream</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;assigned.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;- The Interface ID TLV [R=
FC6389]includes a new BIER sub-domain sub-</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;tlv (type TBD)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">[XJR] this Interface ID TLV is carried=
 in message from EBBR(BFIR) to IBBR(BFERs)?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">HB&gt; this is part of TLDP signaling</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;With same token the EBBR =
should track all the arriving FECs and the</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;IBBRs that are generating=
 these FECs. EBBR will use this information</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;to build the bier header =
for each set of common FEC arriving from the</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;IBBRs.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">[XJR] How does EBBR track the IBBRs?&n=
bsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">[XJR] Let me imagine:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">(1) IBBR(BFER) receive the mLDP Mappin=
g from downstream LSR, and send a xxx message to EBBR(BFIR).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">(2) EBBR(BFIR) send a LDP Mapping mess=
age (with Upstream-Assigned Label Request TLV) to all its tLDP neighbors ?<=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">(3) BFIR should tell the BFERs the ups=
trea-assigned Label, and the Sub-domain, and
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans=
-serif; color:blue">the BFIR-id</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font=
-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black"> at least I guess.</spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Is that right ?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">What's the xxx message (in case the tL=
DP is static configured, in case the tLDP is dynamicly established)?</span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Thinking of the information need to ca=
rry in the LDP message, there will be MPLS WG be considered more.</span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">HB&gt; we can talk about this in perso=
n after BIER WG? But basically this implementation, for an specific upstrea=
m assigned label on BFIR, all the TLDP PEERs (BFERs)
 that have requested for that label should be noted. The TLDP PEER session =
IP can be used to correlate it to a BIER prefix (BFER) for building the BIE=
R header.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">We might need to beef up the draft wit=
h a bit more explanation here.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">4. Datapath Forwarding</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">4.1. Datapath traffic flow</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;On BFIR when the MPLS lab=
el for P2MP/MP2MP LSP arrives a lookup in</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;ILM table is done and the=
 label is swapped with tLDP upstream</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;assigned label. The BFIR =
will note all the BFERs that are interested</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;in specific p2mp/mp2mp LS=
P (as per section 3.2). BFIR will put the</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;corresponding BIER header=
 with bit index set for all IBBRs interested</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;in this P2MP LSP. BFIR wi=
ll set the&nbsp; BIERHeader.Proto =3D MPLS and will</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp;forward the BIER packet i=
nto BIER domain.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">[XJR] is there a proper BFIR-id value =
to be mentioned ?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">HB&gt; the BFIR should have a list of =
all BFERs that are interested so you are probably correct that in the draft=
 we need to mention that the targeted LDP session
 setup should be in sync with BIER prefix used. &nbsp;If they are then the =
TLDP Peer and the FEC can be used to find all the BFERs.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">I will add more details about this in =
next version of the draft, Thank you!</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Thanks</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Jingrong&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: The offline talk about BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-requirements drafts
Thread-Index: AdVEbDdfSasS0zeXTT+PUAHUwHtauQ==
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 11:24:19 +0000
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Subject: [Bier] The offline talk about BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-requirements drafts
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Thanks Jeffrey and Sandy for the patient talk offline about the BIERin6 and=
 BIER-ipv6-requirements yesterday.
I summarized the talk afterwards, and have the following points.

(1) BIERin6 is a Layer-4 solution, which has its special advantages and dis=
advantages in different scenarios, comparing to Layer-3 solution (the solut=
ion using IPv6 Extension Header).

(2) The <bier-ipv6-requirements> can be more inclusive to include Layer-3, =
Layer-4, and Layer-5 solution, so that many of the interests, Layer-3/4/5, =
in the WG can be all considered.

What's your opinion ?

Thanks
Jingrong


--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB90D974nkgeml514mbschi_
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">Thanks Jeffrey and Sandy for the patient talk offline about the BIER=
in6 and BIER-ipv6-requirements yesterday.
<div>I summarized the talk afterwards, and have the following points.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(1) BIERin6 is a Layer-4 solution, which has its special advantages an=
d disadvantages in different scenarios, comparing to Layer-3 solution (the =
solution using IPv6 Extension Header).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(2) The &lt;bier-ipv6-requirements&gt; can be more inclusive to includ=
e Layer-3, Layer-4, and Layer-5 solution, so that many of the interests, La=
yer-3/4/5, in the WG can be all considered.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What's your opinion ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Jingrong</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB90D974nkgeml514mbschi_--


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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: The offline talk about BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-requirements drafts
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/RvqN-oNLYcQYIlFXP9HCfeVIOAg>
Subject: Re: [Bier] The offline talk about BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-requirements drafts
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Hi Jingrong,

We emphasized several times it is not layer-4, just like you would not cons=
ider IPinIP/IPinWhatever as layer-4.

Jeffrey



Juniper Business Use Only
From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Xiejingrong
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:24 AM
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ie=
tf.org
Subject: [Bier] The offline talk about BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-requirements d=
rafts

Thanks Jeffrey and Sandy for the patient talk offline about the BIERin6 and=
 BIER-ipv6-requirements yesterday.
I summarized the talk afterwards, and have the following points.

(1) BIERin6 is a Layer-4 solution, which has its special advantages and dis=
advantages in different scenarios, comparing to Layer-3 solution (the solut=
ion using IPv6 Extension Header).

(2) The <bier-ipv6-requirements> can be more inclusive to include Layer-3, =
Layer-4, and Layer-5 solution, so that many of the interests, Layer-3/4/5, =
in the WG can be all considered.

What's your opinion ?

Thanks
Jingrong


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Jingrong,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We emphasized several times it is not layer-4, just =
like you would not consider IPinIP/IPinWhatever as layer-4.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;margin=
-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> BIER &lt;bier-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>
Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG &lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org; draft-zhang-bier-bie=
rin6@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bier] The offline talk about BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-require=
ments drafts<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Thanks Jeffrey and Sandy for the patient=
 talk offline about the BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-requirements yesterday.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">I summarized the talk afterwards, and ha=
ve the following points.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">(1) BIERin6 is a Layer-4 solution, which=
 has its special advantages and disadvantages in different scenarios, compa=
ring to Layer-3 solution (the solution using IPv6
 Extension Header).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">(2) The &lt;bier-ipv6-requirements&gt; c=
an be more inclusive to include Layer-3, Layer-4, and Layer-5 solution, so =
that many of the interests, Layer-3/4/5, in the WG can
 be all considered.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">What's your opinion ?<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Jingrong<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org>, "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" <draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: The offline talk about BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-requirements drafts
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Subject: Re: [Bier] The offline talk about BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-requirements drafts
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Hi Jeffrey,

The IPinIP (as a comparison to BIERin6) you mentioned in the discussion rea=
lly confused me then without a word.

But afterwards, I convinced myself it is definitely a Layer-4, and the prob=
lems we had talked about are the hints of Layer-4:

(1)     In Fragmentation, BIER is payload, and will be fragmented.  (BIER-h=
eader + payload-1-to-1xxx bytes) in one packet, and (payload-1xxx-to-2xxx) =
in another packet.

Thus, when BFR B receive a packet from BFR A, BFR B has to assembly the fra=
gmented packets before sending to BFR C and BFR D.

(2)     In AH, BIER is payload, and will be seen as immutable for Integrity=
 Check Value (ICV) calculation.

Thus, when BFR B receive a packet with AH ICV from BFR A, BFR B has to do t=
he AH verification before sending to BFR C and BFR D.

(3)     In SRH, BIER is payload, and will be reached only after the SRH is =
processed.

Thus, when BFR B receive a packet with SRH from BFR A, BFR B has to process=
 the SRH first, and then the Upper-layer BIER header at last.

Make sense ?

Thanks
Jingrong

From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [mailto:zzhang@juniper.net]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 9:26 PM
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ie=
tf.org
Subject: RE: The offline talk about BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-requirements draf=
ts

Hi Jingrong,

We emphasized several times it is not layer-4, just like you would not cons=
ider IPinIP/IPinWhatever as layer-4.

Jeffrey



Juniper Business Use Only
From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Xiejingrong
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:24 AM
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>>
Cc: draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-=
requirements@ietf.org>; draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org<mailto:draft-zhan=
g-bier-bierin6@ietf.org>
Subject: [Bier] The offline talk about BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-requirements d=
rafts

Thanks Jeffrey and Sandy for the patient talk offline about the BIERin6 and=
 BIER-ipv6-requirements yesterday.
I summarized the talk afterwards, and have the following points.

(1) BIERin6 is a Layer-4 solution, which has its special advantages and dis=
advantages in different scenarios, comparing to Layer-3 solution (the solut=
ion using IPv6 Extension Header).

(2) The <bier-ipv6-requirements> can be more inclusive to include Layer-3, =
Layer-4, and Layer-5 solution, so that many of the interests, Layer-3/4/5, =
in the WG can be all considered.

What's your opinion ?

Thanks
Jingrong


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Hi Jeffrey,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">The IPinIP (as a comparison to BIERin6) you mentioned in the disc=
ussion really confused me then without a word.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">But afterwards, I convinced myself it is definitely a Layer-4, an=
d the problems we had talked about are the hints of Layer-4:<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#=
1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">(1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5=
pt;color:#1F497D">In Fragmentation, BIER is payload, and will be fragmented=
.&nbsp; (BIER-header &#43; payload-1-to-1xxx bytes) in one packet, and (pay=
load-1xxx-to-2xxx) in another packet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:0cm">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Thus, when BF=
R B receive a packet from BFR A, BFR B has to assembly the fragmented packe=
ts before sending to BFR C and BFR D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#=
1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">(2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5=
pt;color:#1F497D">In AH, BIER is payload, and will be seen as immutable for=
 Integrity Check Value (ICV) calculation.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:0cm">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Thus, when BF=
R B receive a packet with AH ICV from BFR A, BFR B has to do the AH verific=
ation before sending to BFR C and BFR D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#=
1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">(3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5=
pt;color:#1F497D">In SRH, BIER is payload, and will be reached only after t=
he SRH is processed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:0cm">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Thus, when BF=
R B receive a packet with SRH from BFR A, BFR B has to process the SRH firs=
t, and then the Upper-layer BIER header
 at last.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Make sense ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Jingrong<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [mailto:zzhang@juniper.net]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 29, 2019 9:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Xiejingrong &lt;xiejingrong@huawei.com&gt;; BIER WG &lt;bier@iet=
f.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org; draft-zhang-bier-bie=
rin6@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: The offline talk about BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-requiremen=
ts drafts<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Jingrong,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We emphasized several times it =
is not layer-4, just like you would not consider IPinIP/IPinWhatever as lay=
er-4.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;margin=
-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business=
 Use Only</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> BIER &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org">bier-bounces@=
ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Xiejingrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org">bier@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org">dr=
aft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org">draft-zhang-bier-bieri=
n6@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bier] The offline talk about BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-require=
ments drafts<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Thanks Jeffrey and Sandy =
for the patient talk offline about the BIERin6 and BIER-ipv6-requirements y=
esterday.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">I summarized the talk aft=
erwards, and have the following points.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">(1) BIERin6 is a Layer-4 =
solution, which has its special advantages and disadvantages in different s=
cenarios, comparing to Layer-3 solution (the solution
 using IPv6 Extension Header).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">(2) The &lt;bier-ipv6-req=
uirements&gt; can be more inclusive to include Layer-3, Layer-4, and Layer-=
5 solution, so that many of the interests, Layer-3/4/5,
 in the WG can be all considered.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">What's your opinion ?<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Jingrong<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB920525nkgeml514mbxchi_--


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From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:02:17 -0700
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To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Bier] BIER IETF 105 Minutes
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Minutes are posted:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-105-bier/

Read and send corrections/clarifications.

Next, expect a wave of Adoption calls and WGLC. We had one person step up
as Doc Shepherd, but we need a couple more.

Cheers,
Shep
(chairs)

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Minutes are posted:<div><br></div><div><a=
 href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-105-bier/">https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-105-bier/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Read =
and send corrections/clarifications.</div><div><br></div><div>Next, expect =
a wave of Adoption calls and WGLC. We had one person step up as Doc Shepher=
d, but we need a couple more.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Sh=
ep</div><div>(chairs)</div></div></div>

--000000000000d0b73c058ee9cfd9--


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From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:23:25 -0700
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Subject: [Bier] BIER WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php
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Please read and respond to this thread:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/

EOTWT: Aug 13th.

Thanks,
Shep
(chairs)

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Please read and respond to this thread:<d=
iv><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bi=
er-php/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/</a><br></div=
><div><br></div><div>EOTWT: Aug 13th.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div=
><div>Shep</div><div>(chairs)</div></div></div>

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From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:26:42 -0700
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Cc: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding
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Can the authors please refresh this draft? It cleared WGLC a while ago but
we lacked Doc Shepherd volunteers. We have them now. :)

Thanks,
Shep
(chairs)

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 9:34 AM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:

> Looks like we are there. We need a Doc Shepherd to move this past WGLC.
>
> Doc Shepherd Volunteers needed!
>
> Thanks,
> Chairs
> (Shep)
>
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 5:32 PM =E5=BE=90=E5=B0=8F=E8=99=8E(=E4=B9=89=E5=
=85=88) <xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Support as one co-author.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Xiaohu
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> From:Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
>> Send Time:2019=E5=B9=B41=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5(=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E5=85=AD=
) 04:13
>> To:BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
>> Subject:[Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding
>>
>>
>> Change of subject. This is WGLC for:
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding/
>>
>> Same two week timer.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 10:13 AM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption
>> of:
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding/
>>
>> ..as a BIER WG document.
>>
>> This starts a two week counter.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chairs
>> (Shep)
>>
>>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Can the authors please refresh this draft? It cleared WGLC=
 a while ago but we lacked Doc Shepherd volunteers. We have them now. :)<di=
v><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Shep</div><div>(chairs)</div></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Feb=
 13, 2019 at 9:34 AM Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com">=
gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:s=
olid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
Looks like we are there. We need a Doc Shepherd to move this past WGLC.<div=
><br></div><div>Doc Shepherd Volunteers needed!</div><div><br></div><div>Th=
anks,</div><div>Chairs</div><div>(Shep)</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 5:32 P=
M =E5=BE=90=E5=B0=8F=E8=99=8E(=E4=B9=89=E5=85=88) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xia=
ohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com" target=3D"_blank">xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color=
:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail-m_64476963252079341=
72gmail-m_-978032179486459234__aliyun_email_body_block"><div style=3D"line-=
height:1.7;font-family:Tahoma,Arial,STHeiti,SimSun;font-size:14px;color:rgb=
(0,0,0)"><div style=3D"clear:both">Support as one co-author.</div><div styl=
e=3D"clear:both"><br></div><div style=3D"clear:both">Best regards,</div><di=
v style=3D"clear:both">Xiaohu</div><div style=3D"clear:both"><br></div><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-right:0px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-fam=
ily:Tahoma,Arial,STHeiti,SimSun;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style=
=3D"clear:both">-----------------------------------------------------------=
-------</div><div style=3D"clear:both">From:Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt;</div><div=
 style=3D"clear:both">Send Time:2019=E5=B9=B41=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5(=E6=98=
=9F=E6=9C=9F=E5=85=AD) 04:13</div><div style=3D"clear:both">To:BIER WG &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;</d=
iv><div style=3D"clear:both">Subject:[Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-=
bift-encoding</div><div style=3D"clear:both"><br></div><div><div><br></div>=
Change of subject. This is WGLC for:<div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding/" target=3D=
"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-enc=
oding/</a></div><div><br></div><div>Same two week timer.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Thanks</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_=
attr">On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 10:13 AM Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:14px 40px"><div>Please read and reply to this thread=
 with your vote for/against adoption of:<div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http=
s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding/" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift=
-encoding/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>..as a BIER WG document.</div><=
div><br></div><div>This starts a two week counter.</div><div><br></div><div=
>Thanks,</div><div>Chairs</div><div>(Shep)</div></div></div></div></div></d=
iv></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000201318058eea27dd--


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From: Chonggang Wang <Chonggang.Wang@InterDigital.com>
To: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER IETF 105 Minutes
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/DGyzYNSDoiqaQvdopsHcQZKnMjI>
Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER IETF 105 Minutes
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Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com
From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:22:58 -0700
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Will do. Thanks!

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 12:01 PM Chonggang Wang <
Chonggang.Wang@interdigital.com> wrote:

> Hello Greg,
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9C4-draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01=E2=80=9D is already=
 WG adopted.
>
>
>
> Could you please change =E2=80=9CWG-adoption=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9CWGLC=E2=
=80=9D for the following I-D?
>
>
>
> 4-draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen
>
> WG-adoption
>
> 2 ppl have read it and support
>
> Take it to list
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> CG
>
>
>
> *From:* BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of * Greg Shepherd
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 30, 2019 2:02 PM
> *To:* BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* [Bier] BIER IETF 105 Minutes
>
>
>
> Minutes are posted:
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-105-bier/
>
>
>
> Read and send corrections/clarifications.
>
>
>
> Next, expect a wave of Adoption calls and WGLC. We had one person step up
> as Doc Shepherd, but we need a couple more.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Shep
>
> (chairs)
> [image: Banner]
>
>
> [image: Banner] [image: Banner]
>
> This e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to
> which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged,
> confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to anyone other
> than its intended recipient. Unintended transmission shall not constitute
> waiver of any privilege or confidentiality obligation. If you received th=
is
> communication in error, please do not review, copy or distribute it, noti=
fy
> me immediately by email, and delete the original message and any
> attachments. Unless expressly stated in this e-mail, nothing in this
> message or any attachment should be construed as a digital or electronic
> signature.
>

--000000000000910b6b058eec9d12
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Will do. Thanks!</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 12:01 PM Chonggang=
 Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Chonggang.Wang@interdigital.com">Chonggang.Wang=
@interdigital.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:=
solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_775243281337273108WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello Greg,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=9C4-draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-0=
1=E2=80=9D is already WG adopted.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Could you please change =E2=80=9CWG-adoption=E2=80=
=9D to =E2=80=9CWGLC=E2=80=9D for the following I-D?
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:bl=
ack;background-color:rgb(255,253,245);background-position:initial initial;b=
ackground-repeat:initial initial">4-draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response=
-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:bl=
ack;background-color:rgb(255,253,245);background-position:initial initial;b=
ackground-repeat:initial initial">WG-adoption<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.75pt;word-break:break-all"><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:bl=
ack;background-color:rgb(255,253,245);background-position:initial initial;b=
ackground-repeat:initial initial">2 ppl have read it and support<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;background-color:rgb(255,253,245);background-po=
sition:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial">Take it to list<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;background-color:rgb(255,253,245);background-po=
sition:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial"><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">CG<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> BIER &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier-bounces=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>
Greg Shepherd<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 30, 2019 2:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">b=
ier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bier] BIER IETF 105 Minutes<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Minutes are posted:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-=
105-bier/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-105-b=
ier/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Read and send corrections/clarifications.<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Next, expect a wave of Adoption calls and WGLC. We h=
ad one person step up as Doc Shepherd, but we need a couple more.<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Shep<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">(chairs)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:ARIAL;font-size:10pt">
<table style=3D"width:515px">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"height:25px;padding-top:10px;padding-bottom:10p=
x;font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt;vertical-align:top" colspan=3D"2">
<img width=3D"200" alt=3D"Banner" src=3D"http://www.interdigital.com/resour=
ces/img_new/logo.png" border=3D"0">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<img width=3D"auto" alt=3D"Banner" src=3D"https://www.interdigital.com/reso=
urces/uploads/email/glotelAwards2018.png" border=3D"0" align=3D"middle">
<img width=3D"auto" alt=3D"Banner" src=3D"https://www.interdigital.com/reso=
urces/uploads/email/CSI-awards.png" border=3D"0" align=3D"middle" hspace=3D=
"20">
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"height:25px;padding-top:10px;font-family:Arial;=
font-size:10pt;vertical-align:top" colspan=3D"2">
<div align=3D"justify" style=3D"text-align:justify;font-family:Arial;font-s=
ize:9pt">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69)">This e-mail is intended only for the us=
e of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain inf=
ormation that is privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from d=
isclosure to anyone other than
 its intended recipient. Unintended transmission shall not constitute waive=
r of any privilege or confidentiality obligation. If you received this comm=
unication in error, please do not review, copy or distribute it, notify me =
immediately by email, and delete
 the original message and any attachments. Unless expressly stated in this =
e-mail, nothing in this message or any attachment should be construed as a =
digital or electronic signature.</span>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--000000000000910b6b058eec9d12--


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From nobody Wed Jul 31 08:39:14 2019
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References: <CABFReBqOdL0HwEk0JaVVjpsOeLwzxebiJXcYuWa=GqHAFzHhww@mail.gmail.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AAB921C11@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com>
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Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com
From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 08:38:58 -0700
Message-ID: <CABFReBp7QtDhDcnAsWAu6M=2+t8TjiQ0693dY40ZLgne=gO-9w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
Cc: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002d9f27058efbedb6"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/34NiNRUKa2KNR3Gj4etSxFltv5A>
Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER IETF 105 Minutes
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Thanks!! I'll send you email with a doc assignment hopefully later today.

Cheers,
Shep
(chairs)

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 11:26 PM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote=
:

> I=E2=80=99d like to be contributing as a Doc Shepherd.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Jingrong
>
>
>
> *From:* BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 31, 2019 2:02 AM
> *To:* BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* [Bier] BIER IETF 105 Minutes
>
>
>
> Minutes are posted:
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-105-bier/
>
>
>
> Read and send corrections/clarifications.
>
>
>
> Next, expect a wave of Adoption calls and WGLC. We had one person step up
> as Doc Shepherd, but we need a couple more.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Shep
>
> (chairs)
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks!! I&#39;ll send you email with a doc assignment hop=
efully later today.<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Shep</div><div>(ch=
airs)</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_attr">On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 11:26 PM Xiejingrong &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:xiejingrong@huawei.com">xiejingrong@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_2897112997380921913WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I=E2=80=99d like to be cont=
ributing as a Doc Shepherd.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Jingrong<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> BIER [mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:bier-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Shepherd<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 31, 2019 2:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> BIER WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">b=
ier@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bier] BIER IETF 105 Minutes<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Minutes are posted:<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/minutes-105-bier/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/minutes-105-bier/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Read and send corrections/clari=
fications.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Next, expect a wave of Adoption=
 calls and WGLC. We had one person step up as Doc Shepherd, but we need a c=
ouple more.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shep<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">(chairs)<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

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