From nobody Tue Aug 4 11:21:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD78D3A0FC0 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 11:20:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7MKsdLvdrxvO for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 11:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qv1-xf35.google.com (mail-qv1-xf35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98C033A0FC1 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 11:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qv1-xf35.google.com with SMTP id dd12so14475557qvb.0 for ; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 11:20:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=gWMBVQN12g65CV4qavcAEyUYe6fZw/0Wg4uVJqFhAQs=; b=tZlMwIg5PIelWFA59wK6m0iv4lg54fzHZC9IaJnHTW4DFpCNT8llJ8Kmcuxc1s42zh gVM5ngt7FkDZ/wC2AHgsviUpLjEr7AKMCXLn0ucuV7uFZLoJggJDYOhdzNIQaCwp0xFd GaCJ7fMY4yWaWgd0NaBWLIbHdLxjs1prA8BubsisduvXx5kbZf2a0SRGJo41MkPiyPTn PObWFh6DvWfl5KO8nQQFyd60CcozzG4YaXkeRFiqFAvhpmCrQChG56TkVm/DkupwXe1c JBxEK3oWS3aPmghEKNoTwP8JYAtMvBUUViM3wcHeKeMOEGZ9S3bCGiIjIZNG65gXe2tY WCyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=gWMBVQN12g65CV4qavcAEyUYe6fZw/0Wg4uVJqFhAQs=; b=Yp2R7PvS+s2QYoa5G7xW6cLgOC/semUekwvIf1ZXdIFzeJ7H3laqaIfzPE3Eco63nN jByQYaNorSekBBkZzLmlO+/rmsBFYv9p1gEq6nF55rc3pXNStOcv1OP0GtXtiqxpi0GJ 8Tlu4kh3sRq/3KkdoYAuykmhUY0VdGunF1W/6nfVlGwdaJP6jM9ckoBAfc2btMRg2Prl I/WTFtLWLALX8bqhNEC4GjRTlAZM7CjdOyCGfon6SEYqS9fusXPUzmfQzTDnUO5yBd0e /JgEkkpKBDA/P24WZqumNJdFEcaMj9Lr4xOSXxNHMYZ1e1+gETRCVGXozp/ABDN43G83 WOCg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530pwxUIP6hTB73vQ23oqS070vzKUBXrHfu/6BIYAgMlLSVVDvRL Atwvd1YzEl44Z6g3C1lSOE4S++SI68tGw5TFceakvQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyOED2iHmC5EJvpmTH2NA2U+vXq9fUDgOL1Bs94yHXqktSkdDluGzAb8gSBCeCQ0p9QSrACzZAU2S+9Dsud0lg= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:aa5e:: with SMTP id e30mr23153363qvb.212.1596565254190; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 11:20:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com From: Greg Shepherd Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 11:20:43 -0700 Message-ID: To: BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d6393505ac115025" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call For Adoption, BIER WG: draft-zwzw-bier-prefix-redistribute X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 18:20:57 -0000 --000000000000d6393505ac115025 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" ADOPTED Authors, please rev w/ WG naming and chairs will approve. Thanks, Shep (Chairs) On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:37 PM Greg Shepherd wrote: > Please read and respond to this thread: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zwzw-bier-prefix-redistribute/ > > Please respond by 3 Aug > > Thanks, > Chairs > (Shep) > --000000000000d6393505ac115025 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
ADOPTED

Authors, please rev w/ WG namin= g and chairs will approve.

Thanks,
Shep<= /div>
(Chairs)

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:37 PM Greg Shepherd <<= a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com">gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
Please read and respond to this thr= ead:

Please respond by 3 Aug

Thanks,
Chairs
(Shep)
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ADOPTED

Authors, please rev w/ W= G naming and chairs will approve.

=
Thanks,
Shep
(Chairs)

On Mo= n, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:34 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
Please read and respond to this thread:
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ADOPTED

Authors, please rev w/ W= G naming and chairs will approve.

=
Thanks,
Shep
(Chairs)

On Mo= n, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:32 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
Please read and respond to this thread:

Respond by 3 Aug.

Thanks,
Chairs
(Shep)
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ADOPTED

Authors, please rev w/ W= G naming and chairs will approve.

=
Thanks,
Shep
(Chairs)

On Mo= n, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:36 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
Please read and respond:

Respon= d by 3 Aug

Thanks,
Chairs
(She= p)
--0000000000008c672b05ac1158bb-- From nobody Tue Aug 4 17:31:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB1F3A1195; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 17:31:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <159658748598.27011.8468400083663528079@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 17:31:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-prefix-redistribute-00.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 00:31:26 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : BIER Prefix Redistribute Authors : Zheng(Sandy) Zhang Bo Wu Zhaohui Zhang IJsbrand Wijnands Yisong Liu Filename : draft-ietf-bier-prefix-redistribute-00.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2020-08-04 Abstract: This document defines a BIER proxy function to interconnect different underlay routing protocol areas in a network. And a new BIER proxy range sub-TLV is also defined to convey BIER BFR-id information across the routing areas. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-prefix-redistribute/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-prefix-redistribute-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-prefix-redistribute-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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(Jim) Stevens" Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 23:19:18 -0500 Message-ID: To: Joe Touch Cc: mboned@ietf.org, pim@ietf.org, bier@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d4356f05ac19ad56" X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_default_notspam policy=outbound_default score=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=951 priorityscore=1501 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008050038 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] [External] Re: [MBONED] Unambiguous IPv4 Multicast to Ethernet Address mapping? X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 04:19:40 -0000 --000000000000d4356f05ac19ad56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joe =E2=80=93 good question. We are currently working with proprietary multi-hop MANET wireless network protocols that use Ethernet addressing at the MAC layer but aren=E2=80=99t = WiFi networks. For IP multicast, there is ambiguity in the multicast routing since multiple multicast groups can map to the same MAC layer address. Of course, the probability that there are multiple user IP multicast addresses that map to the same MAC layer address is low, so there isn=E2=80=99t real= ly that much of an overhead in extra forwarded packets multihop to nodes that don= =E2=80=99t need to forward them. It=E2=80=99s really more of a =E2=80=9Cwhy did they do it that way=E2=80=9D= type question on my part. Especially when I found read the history - and then wondered why it was never turned into an unambiguous mapping. The idea of creating our own proprietary locally administered Ethernet address mapping is a good suggestion and something we will look into for our own use. However, I am surprised that an industry standard, like RFC 2464, used a locally administered addresses in a global standard like this. Doesn=E2=80= =99t this really violate the spirit of a locally administered address? And do any of y=E2=80=99all know why the IETF didn=E2=80=99t get a globally admini= stered address, similar to what was done for IPv4 (other than the cost of getting that many 24 bit Organizationally Unique Identifiers to only use the upper 16 bits)? It would seem to be a low priority that some locally administered multicast address would collide with RFC 2464, but it could; and even if it does, it should probably not be that large of an extra overhead on the network. IEEE came out with the Structured Local Address Plan (SLAP) that divides the locally administered addresses into 4 quadrants in IEEE 802C. RFC 2464 fits into what is called the Administratively Assigned Identifier (AAI) quadrant due to the value of the first octet value 33 (802C SLAP bits Z & Y =3D 00). SLAP defines a Standards Assigned Identifier quadrant (SAI) that uses bits X & Y set to 11. IEEE documentation says use of the SAI Specification of the use of the SAI quadrant for SLAP address assignments is reserved for the standard forthcoming from IEEE P802.1CQ. And, an SAI is assigned by a protocol specified in an IEEE 802 standard. It would seem like an RFC defined address would fit more into an SAI than an AAI role. So, I wonder if there are any plans to update RFC 2464 to use the SAI quadrant. Again, not really solving a practical problem because probability of collision is small =E2=80=93 especially the if locally assig= ning organization is aware of RFC 2464 =E2=80=93 but the chance of collision doe= s exist. So this is another =E2=80=9Cwonder if it could/should change=E2=80= =9D question. Jim On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:35 AM Joe Touch wrote: > First question - why? > > As in, what problem has been observed that this would solve? > > Note that the IPv6 is a locally administered Ethernet address, not one > registered by the IEEE for the IETF. > > Joe > > On Jul 26, 2020, at 10:44 PM, James A. (Jim) Stevens 40collins.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > RFC 1112 maps the 28 unique IPv4 multicast address bits to 23 bits within > the Ethernet address so that there is not a unique one to one mapping. > > According to > https://networklessons.com/multicast/multicast-ip-address-to-mac-address-= mapping > , > this was because it would have cost $16,000 in 1990 to have reserved 16 > OUIs (Organizational Unique Identifiers) to IP multicast MAC addresses so > that the IPv4 multicast to Ethernet multicast addressing would be unique. > > IPv6 in RFC 2464, maps the lower 32 bits of the IPv6 multicast addresses > into the lower 32 bits of the Ethernet Address - so it looks like IEEE > supports other IP address to ethernet multicast address mappings. > > Question - Is any interest within IETF about working with IEEE to come up > with an IPv4 to Ethernet multicast address mapping so that the 28 unique > IPv4 addresses map uniquely to Ethernet Addresses? > > For example, this could be a new Proposed Standard RFC that also allows > the existing RFC 1112 to continue to be used for backwards compatibility? > > Jim Stevens > > > > _______________________________________________ > MBONED mailing list > MBONED@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned > > > --000000000000d4356f05ac19ad56 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Joe =E2=80=93 good qu= estion.

We are currently working with propr= ietary multi-hop MANET wireless network protocols that use Ethernet addressing at the MAC layer but aren=E2= =80=99t WiFi networks. For IP multicast, there is ambiguity in the multicast routing sin= ce multiple multicast groups can map to the same MAC layer address.=C2=A0 Of c= ourse, the probability that there are multiple user IP multicast addresses that =C2=A0map to the same MAC layer address is low, so there isn=E2=80=99t really that much = of an overhead in extra forwarded packets multihop to nodes that don=E2=80=99t need to for= ward them.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

It=E2=80=99s really more of a =E2= =80=9Cwhy did they do it that way=E2=80=9D type question on my part.=C2=A0 Especially when I found read the history - and then wondered why it was never turned into an unambi= guous mapping.=C2=A0

The idea of creating our own=C2=A0p= roprietary locally administered Ethernet address mapping is a good suggestion and something we will look in= to for our own use.

However, I am surprised that an ind= ustry standard, like RFC 2464, used a locally administered addresses in a global standard like this.= =C2=A0 Doesn=E2=80=99t this really violate the spirit of a locally administered address?=C2=A0 And do any of y=E2=80=99all know why the IETF didn=E2=80=99t get a globally administer= ed address, similar to what was done for IPv4 (other than the cost of getting that many 24 bit = Organizationally Unique Identifiers to only use the upper 16 bits)?=C2=A0 =C2=A0It would seem to be a low priority that some locally administered multicast address would collide with RFC 2464, but it could; and even if it does, it should probably not be that large of an extra overhead on the network.

IEEE came out with the Structured L= ocal Address Plan (SLAP) that divides the locally administered addresses into 4 quadrants in IEEE 80= 2C.=C2=A0 RFC 2464 fits into what is called the Administratively Assigned Identifier (AAI) quadrant due to the value of the first octet valu= e 33 (802C SLAP bits Z & Y =3D 00).=C2=A0 SLAP defines a Standards Assigned Identifier quadrant (SAI) that uses bits X &am= p; Y set to 11. IEEE documentation says use of the SAI Specification of the use = of the SAI quadrant for SLAP address assignments is reserved for the standard forthcoming from IEEE P802.1CQ. And, an SAI is assigned by a protocol speci= fied in an IEEE 802 standard.=C2=A0 It would seem like an RFC defined address would fit more into an SAI than an AAI role.

So, I wonder if there are=C2=A0any = plans to update RFC 2464 to use the SAI quadrant.=C2=A0 Again, not really solving a practical problem because probability of collision is small =E2=80=93 esp= ecially the if locally assigning organization is aware of RFC 2464 =E2=80=93 but the ch= ance of collision does exist.=C2=A0 So this is another =E2=80=9Cwonder if it could/should change=E2=80=9D question.

Jim


On Mon, Jul 27, 2020= at 1:35 AM Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote:
First quest= ion - why?

As in, what pro= blem has been observed that this would solve?

Note that the IPv6 is a locally administered Ethernet a= ddress, not one registered by the IEEE for the IETF.
=
Joe

On Jul 26, 2020, at 10:44 PM, James A. (Jim) Stevens <james.a.= stevens=3D40collins.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
RFC 1112 maps the 28 unique IPv4 multicast address bit= s to 23 bits within the Ethernet address so that there is not a unique=C2= =A0one to one mapping.

According to=C2=A0https://networklessons.com/multicast/mu= lticast-ip-address-to-mac-address-mapping, this was because it would ha= ve cost $16,000 in 1990 to have reserved 16 OUIs (Organizational Unique Ide= ntifiers) to IP multicast MAC addresses so that the IPv4 multicast to Ether= net multicast=C2=A0addressing would be unique.

IPv6 in RFC 2464, maps the= lower 32 bits of the IPv6 multicast addresses into the lower 32 bits of th= e Ethernet Address - so it looks like IEEE supports other=C2=A0IP=C2=A0addr= ess to=C2=A0ethernet multicast address mappings.

Question - Is any intere= st within IETF about working with IEEE to come up with an IPv4 to Ethernet = multicast address mapping so that the 28 unique IPv4 addresses map uniquely= to Ethernet Addresses?

For example, this could be a new Proposed Standar= d RFC that also allows the existing RFC 1112 to continue to be used for bac= kwards compatibility?

Jim Stevens



_______________________________________________
MBONE= D mailing list
MBONED@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned
--000000000000d4356f05ac19ad56-- From nobody Wed Aug 5 08:03:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1AF3A0A9F; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 08:03:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.217 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.217 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2l665I9xoHT5; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 08:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server217-4.web-hosting.com (server217-4.web-hosting.com [198.54.116.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90FC33A0A9C; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 08:03:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To: From:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=8czORDpCZ+DxLbgZbEmA9gZ+g5UAj0dL87yxaswdwoc=; b=qvnJfShHbifPTuxWv7eRH3z7/ j5fdMBf/ji7FJig5GVR4vTBwYIZTDpKnlSdiwUeC8TFkzEdO9/0VY0CJyKDhqqdQ1BQjpavmvGV2e e7OQFoDWQN4LRJgGn4RVEeIHjV9Qngi+QXp8/L/91sX+P68TSUp9siwvY4p+C01qGNkn/L8s5hnw4 X0oKVy4Zh9QCZ5tUJ3VqR0vyakCafBBMd7b3v6gNN2z+qU5rPw5mxKLGpzrcDsBJrABfd23Yn5j4c R9CayMKpo8ohON1cDhNmiyS474sMqcrm+GgcUloNfLqlIcJ/l8wKOQCZYfN4vHc9C0JfzPVG1VryS 5QcjpmQgQ==; Received: from cpe-172-250-225-198.socal.res.rr.com ([172.250.225.198]:53107 helo=[192.168.1.14]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1k3Kws-000ich-M7; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 11:03:27 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_16C42EEB-EEBE-4A3A-A416-9427127BADFE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) From: Joseph Touch In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 08:03:21 -0700 Cc: mboned@ietf.org, pim@ietf.org, bier@ietf.org Message-Id: <4CC9C14D-E243-4E2E-8F96-A9167B3848DB@strayalpha.com> References: <2446466B-4F73-421F-AC68-38AAE64E3C3C@strayalpha.com> To: "James A. (Jim) Stevens" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] [External] [MBONED] Unambiguous IPv4 Multicast to Ethernet Address mapping? X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 15:03:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_16C42EEB-EEBE-4A3A-A416-9427127BADFE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Jim, IPv4 and IPv6 operate differently. IPv4 assumes global coordination of = addresses, so it makes sense that it relies on a reserved block of = Ethernet addresses for multicast. IPv6 creates its addresses by combining router prefixes with local = addresses and supports duplicate address detection (which IPv4 lacks), = so it makes sense that it would use locally administered addresses = instead. At least that=E2=80=99s from where I sit. History may have a different = story to tell - I happen to run the Internet History email list (not = associated with the IETF, but supported on the ISOC servers here: = https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history = ). You may = have better luck finding the legacy info there. Beyond the history, if your concern is that =E2=80=9Cthere=E2=80=99s = another way to do this=E2=80=9D that requires upending existing, = established, and deployed standards, the real question is =E2=80=9Cwhy = bother=E2=80=9D? You answered that several times - given there=E2=80=99s = not that much overhead and IP expects Ethernet can do Ethernet=E2=80=99s = job (i.e., L2 forwarding), there=E2=80=99s no need. If you=E2=80=99re = designing a new L2 (your MANET layer), then I would ask why you are = using Ethernet addresses if they cause a problem for your multihop = forwarding. IP expects L2 to do its job, including supporting multicast = and broadcast (as per RFC 3819); when that doesn=E2=80=99t happen, IP = still works (e.g., over carrier pigeons), but less efficiently. So, IMO, the real flaw here is adopting Ethernet addresses for your = MANET, not how IP maps multicast. Joe > On Aug 4, 2020, at 9:19 PM, James A. (Jim) Stevens = wrote: >=20 > Joe =E2=80=93 good question. >=20 > We are currently working with proprietary multi-hop MANET wireless = network protocols that use Ethernet addressing at the MAC layer but = aren=E2=80=99t WiFi networks. For IP multicast, there is ambiguity in = the multicast routing since multiple multicast groups can map to the = same MAC layer address. Of course, the probability that there are = multiple user IP multicast addresses that map to the same MAC layer = address is low, so there isn=E2=80=99t really that much of an overhead = in extra forwarded packets multihop to nodes that don=E2=80=99t need to = forward them. =20 >=20 > It=E2=80=99s really more of a =E2=80=9Cwhy did they do it that way=E2=80= =9D type question on my part. Especially when I found read the history = - and then wondered why it was never turned into an unambiguous mapping.=20= >=20 > The idea of creating our own proprietary locally administered Ethernet = address mapping is a good suggestion and something we will look into for = our own use. >=20 > However, I am surprised that an industry standard, like RFC 2464, used = a locally administered addresses in a global standard like this. = Doesn=E2=80=99t this really violate the spirit of a locally administered = address? And do any of y=E2=80=99all know why the IETF didn=E2=80=99t = get a globally administered address, similar to what was done for IPv4 = (other than the cost of getting that many 24 bit Organizationally Unique = Identifiers to only use the upper 16 bits)? It would seem to be a low = priority that some locally administered multicast address would collide = with RFC 2464, but it could; and even if it does, it should probably not = be that large of an extra overhead on the network. >=20 > IEEE came out with the Structured Local Address Plan (SLAP) that = divides the locally administered addresses into 4 quadrants in IEEE = 802C. RFC 2464 fits into what is called the Administratively Assigned = Identifier (AAI) quadrant due to the value of the first octet value 33 = (802C SLAP bits Z & Y =3D 00). SLAP defines a Standards Assigned = Identifier quadrant (SAI) that uses bits X & Y set to 11. IEEE = documentation says use of the SAI Specification of the use of the SAI = quadrant for SLAP address assignments is reserved for the standard = forthcoming from IEEE P802.1CQ. And, an SAI is assigned by a protocol = specified in an IEEE 802 standard. It would seem like an RFC defined = address would fit more into an SAI than an AAI role. >=20 > So, I wonder if there are any plans to update RFC 2464 to use the SAI = quadrant. Again, not really solving a practical problem because = probability of collision is small =E2=80=93 especially the if locally = assigning organization is aware of RFC 2464 =E2=80=93 but the chance of = collision does exist. So this is another =E2=80=9Cwonder if it = could/should change=E2=80=9D question. >=20 > Jim >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:35 AM Joe Touch > wrote: > First question - why? >=20 > As in, what problem has been observed that this would solve? >=20 > Note that the IPv6 is a locally administered Ethernet address, not one = registered by the IEEE for the IETF. >=20 > Joe >=20 >> On Jul 26, 2020, at 10:44 PM, James A. (Jim) Stevens = > wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BF >> RFC 1112 maps the 28 unique IPv4 multicast address bits to 23 bits = within the Ethernet address so that there is not a unique one to one = mapping. >>=20 >> According to = https://networklessons.com/multicast/multicast-ip-address-to-mac-address-m= apping = , this was because it would = have cost $16,000 in 1990 to have reserved 16 OUIs (Organizational = Unique Identifiers) to IP multicast MAC addresses so that the IPv4 = multicast to Ethernet multicast addressing would be unique. >>=20 >> IPv6 in RFC 2464, maps the lower 32 bits of the IPv6 multicast = addresses into the lower 32 bits of the Ethernet Address - so it looks = like IEEE supports other IP address to ethernet multicast address = mappings. >>=20 >> Question - Is any interest within IETF about working with IEEE to = come up with an IPv4 to Ethernet multicast address mapping so that the = 28 unique IPv4 addresses map uniquely to Ethernet Addresses? >>=20 >> For example, this could be a new Proposed Standard RFC that also = allows the existing RFC 1112 to continue to be used for backwards = compatibility? >>=20 >> Jim Stevens >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> MBONED mailing list >> MBONED@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned = --Apple-Mail=_16C42EEB-EEBE-4A3A-A416-9427127BADFE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Jim,

IPv4 = and IPv6 operate differently. IPv4 assumes global coordination of = addresses, so it makes sense that it relies on a reserved block of = Ethernet addresses for multicast.

IPv6 creates its addresses by combining = router prefixes with local addresses and supports duplicate address = detection (which IPv4 lacks), so it makes sense that it would use = locally administered addresses instead.

At least that=E2=80=99s from where I = sit. History may have a different story to tell - I happen to run the = Internet History email list (not associated with the IETF, but supported = on the ISOC servers here: https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history).= You may have better luck finding the legacy info there.

Beyond the history, if = your concern is that =E2=80=9Cthere=E2=80=99s another way to do this=E2=80= =9D that requires upending existing, established, and deployed = standards, the real question is =E2=80=9Cwhy bother=E2=80=9D? You = answered that several times - given there=E2=80=99s not that much = overhead and IP expects Ethernet can do Ethernet=E2=80=99s job (i.e., L2 = forwarding), there=E2=80=99s no need. If you=E2=80=99re designing a new = L2 (your MANET layer), then I would ask why you are using Ethernet = addresses if they cause a problem for your multihop forwarding. IP = expects L2 to do its job, including supporting multicast and broadcast = (as per RFC 3819); when that doesn=E2=80=99t happen, IP still works = (e.g., over carrier pigeons), but less efficiently.

So, IMO, the real flaw = here is adopting Ethernet addresses for your MANET, not how IP maps = multicast.

Joe

On = Aug 4, 2020, at 9:19 PM, James A. (Jim) Stevens <james.a.stevens@collins.com> wrote:

Joe = =E2=80=93 good question.

We = are currently working with proprietary multi-hop MANET wireless network protocols that use Ethernet addressing at the MAC layer but = aren=E2=80=99t WiFi networks. For IP multicast, there is ambiguity in the multicast routing = since multiple multicast groups can map to the same MAC layer address.  = Of course, the probability that there are multiple user IP multicast addresses that  map to the same MAC layer address is low, so there isn=E2=80=99t really that = much of an overhead in extra forwarded packets multihop to nodes that don=E2=80=99t need to = forward them.    

It=E2=80= =99s really more of a =E2=80=9Cwhy did they do it that way=E2=80=9D type question on my part.  Especially when I found read the history - and then wondered why it was never turned into an = unambiguous mapping. 

The = idea of creating our own proprietary locally administered Ethernet address mapping is a good suggestion and something we will look = into for our own use.

Howeve= r, I am surprised that an industry standard, like RFC 2464, used a locally administered addresses in a global standard like = this.  Doesn=E2=80=99t this really violate the spirit of a locally administered address?  And do any of y=E2=80=99all know why the IETF didn=E2=80=99t get a globally = administered address, similar to what was done for IPv4 (other than the cost of getting that many 24 = bit Organizationally Unique Identifiers to only use the upper 16 bits)?   It would seem to be a low priority that some locally administered multicast address would collide with RFC 2464, but it could; and even if it does, = it should probably not be that large of an extra overhead on the = network.

IEEE = came out with the Structured Local Address Plan (SLAP) that divides the locally administered addresses into 4 quadrants in IEEE = 802C.  RFC 2464 fits into what is called the Administratively Assigned Identifier (AAI) quadrant due to the value of the first octet = value 33 (802C SLAP bits Z & Y =3D 00).  SLAP defines a Standards Assigned Identifier quadrant (SAI) that uses bits X = & Y set to 11. IEEE documentation says use of the SAI Specification of the = use of the SAI quadrant for SLAP address assignments is reserved for the = standard forthcoming from IEEE P802.1CQ. And, an SAI is assigned by a protocol = specified in an IEEE 802 standard.  It would seem like an RFC defined address would fit more into an SAI than an AAI = role.

So, = I wonder if there are any plans to update RFC 2464 to use the SAI quadrant.  Again, not really solving a practical problem because probability of collision is small =E2=80=93 = especially the if locally assigning organization is aware of RFC 2464 =E2=80=93 but the = chance of collision does exist.  So this is another =E2=80=9Cwonder if it could/should change=E2=80=9D question.

Jim


On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:35 AM Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote:
First question - why?

As in, what = problem has been observed that this would solve?

Note that = the IPv6 is a locally administered Ethernet address, not one registered = by the IEEE for the IETF.

Joe

On Jul = 26, 2020, at 10:44 PM, James A. (Jim) Stevens <james.a.stevens=3D40collins.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
RFC 1112 maps the 28 unique IPv4 = multicast address bits to 23 bits within the Ethernet address so that = there is not a unique one to one mapping.

According to https://networklessons.com/multicast/multicast-ip-address-to-ma= c-address-mapping, this was because it would have cost $16,000 in = 1990 to have reserved 16 OUIs (Organizational Unique Identifiers) to IP = multicast MAC addresses so that the IPv4 multicast to Ethernet = multicast addressing would be unique.

IPv6 in RFC 2464, maps the lower 32 = bits of the IPv6 multicast addresses into the lower 32 bits of the = Ethernet Address - so it looks like IEEE supports = other IP address to ethernet multicast address = mappings.

Question - Is = any interest within IETF about working with IEEE to come up with an IPv4 = to Ethernet multicast address mapping so that the 28 unique IPv4 = addresses map uniquely to Ethernet Addresses?

For example, this could be a new = Proposed Standard RFC that also allows the existing RFC 1112 to continue = to be used for backwards compatibility?

Jim Stevens



_______________________________________________MBONED mailing list
MBONED@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned

= --Apple-Mail=_16C42EEB-EEBE-4A3A-A416-9427127BADFE-- From nobody Fri Aug 7 07:18:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE0D3A0407; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 07:18:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 93iOPuDQML5H; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 07:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x329.google.com (mail-wm1-x329.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::329]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 508E33A08B0; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 07:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x329.google.com with SMTP id d190so1877904wmd.4; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 07:18:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=5peRLw6BpFCvfNKP6uvymDeIlAyhutTYjmZUwZSK5To=; b=tkWl7huNuhQoeFVSVIkMCVHF7RmRYDnTCfZ2W9w04vCZDwP5plKE5dkgQmmkSimtRV VP/u+KQY5cR6ImPWOGu13VS5a94xl5Foq/KQZRErUYEQW8qMPuryOgqgaahEdxVZXU/U 1ZR/5i3Ex+GLgA1LdNCxRwzyVIWp1dUZC+xkJk74L6k1Aief6nzb5FZgbGQkGJeeAB2f GjJ7HAAtUK9P6iJDoS/Bt2YQgSToQkZy7gWHiiF4i51qDgsmKiBI9zvd2gx7Uy2iVCWX VJR8O3ZOyCkBJ5yKhDzaSd52orE1IeXkW1GF5cKKpoydBcZzw6TUqKbOCU58f4f+i4VD f7QQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=5peRLw6BpFCvfNKP6uvymDeIlAyhutTYjmZUwZSK5To=; b=pAA98KDkOEgU8HkxWzjcCBNcPp4zWpCpBeCSvMlq2aC/CYVEsDj6lMjK1FEr9crAoV eJHercsClImN3J6xiHFSt33H+cbKCJnGV8KCzB6pEVU8LdCJeARe4BATLfIi2O7SnHhP OXEE/bxRiYMnoAvae9oxYebF48SO/iU5b7Qm9XDhjzMXmRGfidm9qzXq7YC9k7gCjTI+ tHhn+9eNDJLVI5wsw/Ew/fwPSJBkACOc+IH979IJN1/432U6ez3qXIGZT3OuQsyRKrxr x2J8eG5qutLQ61dAlfA5xIN4o2fdYnlxnEDMsUgnRfWojXazKnjJWdehEJQrbhyqwSo9 C7Zg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5310X1eOkQkq7P7Bx68m0KSRNsBgN46vOVVA/tESjnXsNzFAiqdE MDaUDWOSmgZFsIpLOikmxb+b0YrcH1W4YD+kJCx6WyOs X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyC5LLvj3bXfzKyq71DKMt67MNeeRPQ/XtrFZK1XPcHE5BYvVJJyPsg3GG/1whzuVSRmMjkkJlcKALbZredws0= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:1bc4:: with SMTP id b187mr12808632wmb.175.1596809918367; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 07:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 07:18:37 -0700 From: Alvaro Retana MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 07:18:37 -0700 Message-ID: To: draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org, draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org, draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org, draft-pfister-bier-over-ipv6@ietf.org, draft-xu-bier-encapsulation@ietf.org Cc: bier@ietf.org, "bier-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] BIER/IPv6 Requirements and Solutions X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 14:18:46 -0000 Hello all! I am directing this message to the authors of the BIER in IPv6-related work. =C2=A0I am also copying the WG because this work needs more engagement[*], making sure I don't miss anyone. =C2=A0 [*] More engagement in the form of substantive discussions from non- =C2=A0 authors, and diversity of affiliations. Some of you raised concerns to the IESG about the speed at which the IPv6-related work has been moving, and the ability to discuss it during WG meetings. =C2=A0In response, I am providing my opinion of the current state and, after consultation with the Chairs, reinforcing the required steps to move any work forward. Note that my intent is not to insert myself in the discussions, but to get them back on track. =C2=A0All decisions should be made by WG consensus as interpreted by the Chairs [rfc2418]. I have done a preliminary/high-level review of the requirements document (see details below); I don't think it currently is in a state to provide adequate material for WG discussion. =C2=A0Besides specific requirements, the text should include a clear justification for the WG to reach a consensus. =C2=A0The current version doesn't properly cover these aspects. The document points to the WG Charter in a couple of places as justification for the work. =C2=A0Recommendation: Focus on the technical aspects and not whether something is in the Charter or not! =C2=A0If there is WG consensus, a Charter can be amended to include new work. =C2=A0On the other hand, while a Charter is used to provide scope and focus, it must not be used as justification for doing work in the absence of discussion and consensus. The critical step towards adopting a solution (or solutions) is engaged discussion of the requirements. =C2=A0After looking at the document (comments below), I don't think it provides a good base for analysis. The expectation is for the requirements to be clear, specific, measurable, and to justify their applicability in the solution. In consultation with the Chairs, we expect a revised requirements document *before* IETF 109. =C2=A0As I mentioned above, more engagement is needed in its development. =C2=A0Ideally, the text will be discussed on the list as it evolves. =C2=A0If a live discussion is required, the Chairs will organize one (an interim meeting, if there is enough time before IETF 109). Greg is the Chair responsible for this process. =C2=A0[Side note: Tony has decided to remove himself as co-author of one of the proposals. =C2=A0His comments will be considered as coming from a WG participant.] If anyone has concerns about this message, please contact me directly. Again, I won't participate in the WG discussions, but (if needed) may provide additional feedback related to my review of draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements-06 (below). Thanks!! Alvaro. Review of draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements-06 This is an informal review. =C2=A0While I expect this document to serve as a discussion point for the WG, and for it to *not* be published as an RFC, I have strong concerns about its contents. Note that the intent of providing a review at this point is to aid in progressing the IPv6-related discussion. =C2=A0Any consensus on the specific requirements should come from the WG, guided by the Chairs. Consider all my comments as my personal opinion. =3D=3D=3D In general, the requirements listed are either too vague or not well justified. =C2=A0The objective "to help the BIER WG evaluate the BIER v6 requirements" cannot be met unless there is clarity that can lead to engaged discussion. The document starts by explaining the problem space (from the Introduction)= : =C2=A0 =C2=A0As clarified in the working-group, "BIER natively in IPv6" mea= ns BIER not =C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulated in MPLS or Ethernet. =C2=A0This may include nativ= e IPv6 =C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulation and generic IPv6 tunnelling. I didn't look at the archive, but I'm sure the WG can do a better job!! This description is vague (""...natively in IPv6" means BIER not encapsulated in MPLS or Ethernet"), recursive (native "may include native") and confusing (native "may include native...and...tunnelling [sic]"). Note that the Problem Statement itself ("to transport BUM packets, with BIER headers, in an IPv6 environment.") is straightforward -- the expectation of what is required as a solution is not. Two conceptual solution models are presented. =C2=A0The description of the "Transport-Independent Model" is not in line with the layering model from rfc8279. =C2=A0In the best case, the terminology doesn't match; but I think that the description might introduce new concepts. =C2=A0Note also that the statement that "BIER-MPLS could use this approach directly since BIER-MPLS is based on MPLS" seems to contradict the definition of "natively in IPv6". The description of the "Native IPv6 Model" gets a slightly different treatment; for example, it includes benefits. =C2=A0Note that this model also mentions "a trusted IPv6-based domain" while comparing the model to SRv6, *and* talking about a "wider inter-AS scope". =C2=A0These seem to be contradictions as a trusted domain is typically aligned to a single administrative entity [rfc8402]. =C2=A0Again, the terminology may not be in alignment...or more discussion may be needed on the scope. On to the requirements. =C2=A0As far as requirement levels go, I recommend that you use three levels instead of two: required, recommended, and optional. =C2=A0The level should be justified depending on the potential deployment or solution model. Some of the mandatory requirements listed are obvious and probably don't need even to be mentioned. =C2=A0That is the case for: 352 4.1.2. =C2=A0Support BIER architecture 361 4.1.3. =C2=A0Conform to existing IPv6 Spec 368 4.1.4. =C2=A0Support deployment with Non-BFR routers Some of the requirements are not clear -- they need a better description and clear justification. 345 4.1.1. =C2=A0L2 Agnostic 347 =C2=A0 The solution must be agnostic to the underlying L2 data link ty= pe. 348 =C2=A0 The solution needs to support P2P ethernet links as well as sha= red 349 =C2=A0 media ethernet links without requiring the LAN switch to perfor= m BIER 350 =C2=A0 snooping. Agnostic to the L2 data link, but also needs to support specific topologies. =C2=A0That is a contradiction. =C2=A0Also, where is "BIER snoop= ing" defined? 376 4.1.5. =C2=A0Support inter-AS multicast deployment 378 =C2=A0 Inter-AS multicast support is needed for ease of provisioning t= he 379 =C2=A0 P2MP transport service to enterprises. =C2=A0This could greatly= increase 380 =C2=A0 the scalability of BIER, as it is usually considered to be suit= able 381 =C2=A0 only for small intra-AS scenarios. rfc8279 talks about a single BIER domain. =C2=A0There is no discussion about BIER domains in the context of inter-AS operation in this draft or draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain. =C2=A0Again, in the best case, we have a terminology mismatch. Still, it is not clear if the text proposes new functionality -- and using draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain as the base for a mandatory requirement doesn't seem correct without WG consensus. 383 4.1.6. =C2=A0Support Simple Encapsulation 385 =C2=A0 The solution must avoid requiring different encapsulation types= . =C2=A0A 386 =C2=A0 solution needs to do careful trade-off analysis and select one 387 =C2=A0 encapsulation as its proposal for best coverage of various scen= arios. Based on the description of "natively in IPv6", it seems like anything that is "not encapsulated in MPLS or Ethernet" should be ok. =C2=A0What is the justification behind one encapsulation? =C2=A0It sounds like this requirement opens the door to multiple solutions, each with different encapsulations -- doesn't that contradict a mandatory requirement of one? Finally, we find the security requirement: 389 4.1.7. =C2=A0Support Deployment Security 391 =C2=A0 The proposed solution must include careful security considerati= ons, 392 =C2=A0 including all that is already considered in BIER architecture R= FC8279 393 =C2=A0 and RFC8296, and other security concerns that may raise due to = the 394 =C2=A0 addition of IPv6. I want to highlight the obvious nature of "must include careful security considerations", which is a documentation issue -- there are no specific security requirements on the solution itself? =C2=A0No particular mention of any security aspect. =C2=A0What is the technical need? =C2=A0:-( The optional requirements don't fare much better. =C2=A0In general, please clarify and justify them. Some of the optional requirements seem to be associated with unexplained scenarios. =C2=A0For example, the support for MVPN or IPSEC...and the specific need to forward "in hardware fast path". Others seem to make improper assumptions (for example, as far as I know, there is no existing standard OAM method) or suggest potential enhancements ("enhance the capability of BIER leveraging the BIER-MTU" =C2=A0??). In summary, the list of requirements presented is not clear or adequately justified. =C2=A0It is not conducive to a WG discussion about the requirements themselves...much less about potential solutions. From nobody Sun Aug 9 15:39:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74BF03A0E3C; Sun, 9 Aug 2020 15:39:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.117 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.117 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A78v6RjJGhCO; Sun, 9 Aug 2020 15:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B03433A0E4F; Sun, 9 Aug 2020 15:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4368B54802F; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 00:38:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 3552B440059; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 00:38:51 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 00:38:51 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: "James A. (Jim) Stevens" Cc: Joe Touch , mboned@ietf.org, bier@ietf.org, pim@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200809223851.GA10736@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <2446466B-4F73-421F-AC68-38AAE64E3C3C@strayalpha.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] [MBONED] [External] Re: Unambiguous IPv4 Multicast to Ethernet Address mapping? X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2020 22:39:13 -0000 On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 11:19:18PM -0500, James A. (Jim) Stevens wrote: > Joe ??? good question. > > We are currently working with proprietary multi-hop MANET wireless network > protocols that use Ethernet addressing at the MAC layer but aren???t WiFi > networks. > For IP multicast, there is ambiguity in the multicast routing > since multiple multicast groups can map to the same MAC layer address. If your MANET nodes route/forward on the layer 3 address, then the L2 ambiguity is irrelevant. It is only relevant if your forwarders operate on L2, but then it is not a MANET router, but some form of MANET L2 switch. > Of course, the probability that there are multiple user IP multicast addresses > that map to the same MAC layer address is low, so there isn???t really that > much of an overhead in extra forwarded packets multihop to nodes that don???t > need to forward them. Probability of ambiguity depends on how addresses are allocated. There have been common examples of IPv4 multicast address allocations that caused the MAC ambiguity to kick in and required re-education of app developers. > It???s really more of a ???why did they do it that way??? type question on my > part. Especially when I found read the history - and then wondered why it > was never turned into an unambiguous mapping. The reason is well documented: The MAC mapping was part of Steve Deering PhD thesis at Stanford (1991), and a 24 bit OUI cost USD 1,000, so David Cheriton (Steve's PhD advisor) didn't want to spend 16 x $1,000 to fully map Ethernet but bought just one and gave Steve only half of it (23 bits), thus keeping another 23 bit for other experiments. Later the block was given by Stanford to IETF. This was never changed because the pain was never high enough. In a time of IGMP snooping switches, ambiguous traffic only is passed on to hosts when the switch only performs IGMP snooping based on DMAC, but more intelligent IGMP snooping switches have been filtering/forwarding based on Destination IP address for a long time. My personal theory of course is that a 1:1 mapping of the 28 bit IPv4 multicast addrsses to MAC addresses would have made IPv4 better than IPv6 could ever be (can't 1:1 map IPv6 multicast addresses into 48 bit ethernet). So why improve the protocol version that many would rather like to kill. I think this qualifies as a conspiracy theory ;-) > The idea of creating our own proprietary locally administered Ethernet > address mapping is a good suggestion and something we will look into for > our own use. Sounds like you don't only want to go down the painfull path of IGMP snooping, but then also creating a non-standard solution for that. I'd be doubtfull this is the best option, but of course i can only guess given how its proprietary. > However, I am surprised that an industry standard, like RFC 2464, used a > locally administered addresses in a global standard like this. Doesn???t > this really violate the spirit of a locally administered address? And do > any of y???all know why the IETF didn???t get a globally administered address, > similar to what was done for IPv4 (other than the cost of getting that many > 24 bit Organizationally Unique Identifiers to only use the upper 16 bits)? > It would seem to be a low priority that some locally administered > multicast address would collide with RFC 2464, but it could; and even if it > does, it should probably not be that large of an extra overhead on the > network. I don't know if/what discussion there was in the process of defining rfc2464 about this point. Might be a good question to as on internet history or to Bob Hinden directly, ipng mailing list archive as listed on datatracker does not exist anymore. > IEEE came out with the Structured Local Address Plan (SLAP) that divides > the locally administered addresses into 4 quadrants in IEEE 802C. RFC 2464 > fits into what is called the Administratively Assigned Identifier (AAI) > quadrant due to the value of the first octet value 33 (802C SLAP bits Z & Y > = 00). SLAP defines a Standards Assigned Identifier quadrant (SAI) that > uses bits X & Y set to 11. IEEE documentation says use of the SAI > Specification of the use of the SAI quadrant for SLAP address assignments > is reserved for the standard forthcoming from IEEE P802.1CQ. And, an SAI is > assigned by a protocol specified in an IEEE 802 standard. It would seem > like an RFC defined address would fit more into an SAI than an AAI role. > > So, I wonder if there are any plans to update RFC 2464 to use the SAI > quadrant. Again, not really solving a practical problem because > probability of collision is small ??? especially the if locally assigning > organization is aware of RFC 2464 ??? but the chance of collision does > exist. So this is another ???wonder if it could/should change??? question. As soon as no other L2 application would create a lot of CPU overhead for receiving non-IP 3333' MAC addresses, i would be surprised if IETF would do anything in this regards. But you are of course always welcome to propose and lead work. I don't think there would be resistance to updating the mapping, but a) you would have to do all the work, b) you shouldn't be frustrated if no vendor picks up the change. Cheers Toerless > Jim > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:35 AM Joe Touch wrote: > > > First question - why? > > > > As in, what problem has been observed that this would solve? > > > > Note that the IPv6 is a locally administered Ethernet address, not one > > registered by the IEEE for the IETF. > > > > Joe > > > > On Jul 26, 2020, at 10:44 PM, James A. (Jim) Stevens > 40collins.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > ??? > > RFC 1112 maps the 28 unique IPv4 multicast address bits to 23 bits within > > the Ethernet address so that there is not a unique one to one mapping. > > > > According to > > https://networklessons.com/multicast/multicast-ip-address-to-mac-address-mapping > > , > > this was because it would have cost $16,000 in 1990 to have reserved 16 > > OUIs (Organizational Unique Identifiers) to IP multicast MAC addresses so > > that the IPv4 multicast to Ethernet multicast addressing would be unique. > > > > IPv6 in RFC 2464, maps the lower 32 bits of the IPv6 multicast addresses > > into the lower 32 bits of the Ethernet Address - so it looks like IEEE > > supports other IP address to ethernet multicast address mappings. > > > > Question - Is any interest within IETF about working with IEEE to come up > > with an IPv4 to Ethernet multicast address mapping so that the 28 unique > > IPv4 addresses map uniquely to Ethernet Addresses? > > > > For example, this could be a new Proposed Standard RFC that also allows > > the existing RFC 1112 to continue to be used for backwards compatibility? > > > > Jim Stevens > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MBONED mailing list > > MBONED@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > MBONED mailing list > MBONED@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Sun Aug 9 21:24:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9173A13B4; Sun, 9 Aug 2020 21:24:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G1EwbF93_4OL; Sun, 9 Aug 2020 21:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C2033A13B3; Sun, 9 Aug 2020 21:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml701-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id BA299378059EB3543BA1; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 05:24:45 +0100 (IST) Received: from nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.157) by lhreml701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 05:24:44 +0100 Received: from nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.157) by nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.157) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:24:42 +0800 Received: from nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.98.57.157]) by nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.98.57.157]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:24:42 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Alvaro Retana , "draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org" , "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org" , "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" , "draft-pfister-bier-over-ipv6@ietf.org" , "draft-xu-bier-encapsulation@ietf.org" CC: "bier@ietf.org" , "bier-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER/IPv6 Requirements and Solutions Thread-Index: AQHWbMW/8KSCgA90lECbKPzj4GEb4qkwuWMg Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 04:24:42 +0000 Message-ID: <1ae42930c57c4a4f953136de2ff7707d@huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.128] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER/IPv6 Requirements and Solutions X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 04:24:53 -0000 SGkgQWx2YXJvIGFuZCB0aGUgV0csDQoNCkkganVtcGVkIGluIHRoaXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IGEg bW9udGggb3Igc28uDQpJIHdvdWxkIGxpa2UgdG8gc2hhcmUgbXkgcG9pbnRzIGFmdGVyIHRoaXMg bWFpbC4gDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4NCg0KQmVzdCwNClRpYW5yYW4NCg0KLS0tLS1Pcmln aW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEJJRVIgW21haWx0bzpiaWVyLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5v cmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBBbHZhcm8gUmV0YW5hDQpTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIEF1Z3VzdCA3LCAy MDIwIDEwOjE5IFBNDQpUbzogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1iaWVyLWlwdjYtcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzQGlldGYu 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10 08:53:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6119D3A07B5; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:53:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qikXcSrp1e9o; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42c.google.com (mail-wr1-x42c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42c]) (using 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Retana In-Reply-To: <1ae42930c57c4a4f953136de2ff7707d@huawei.com> References: <1ae42930c57c4a4f953136de2ff7707d@huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:44:25 -0700 Message-ID: To: "draft-pfister-bier-over-ipv6@ietf.org" , "draft-xu-bier-encapsulation@ietf.org" , "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org" , "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org" , Tianran Zhou Cc: "bier-chairs@ietf.org" , "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER/IPv6 Requirements and Solutions X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:53:12 -0000 On August 10, 2020 at 12:24:49 AM, Tianran Zhou =C2=A0wrote: Tianran: Hi! =C2=A0How are you? ... > I have done a preliminary/high-level review of the requirements document > (see details below); I don't think it currently is in a state to provide > adequate material for WG discussion. Besides specific requirements, the > text should include a clear justification for the WG to reach a consensus= . > The current version doesn't properly cover these aspects. > > ZTR> I do not agree with you. I think the requirement is straight forward > and easy to understand. I even think there is no need for the requirement > document for a consensus. Your comment here is very high level without an= y > guidance. Could you please point out, what justification need to reach > consensus? [I'm assuming you're talking about the general need to run bier over IPv6 when you characterize the requirement as "straight forward and easy to understand."] Given that this potential work item made it into the Charter, I also assume that the need to run bier over an IPv6 dataplane is straightforward. =C2=A0On the other hand, the decision of which of the multiple (and different) solutions to pursue (one, many, none ?) is what doesn't have consensus. =C2=A0I hope that my notes on the document itself were more specific. I will leave the discussion as to whether a requirements document is necessary to the WG. > The document points to the WG Charter in a couple of places as > justification for the work. Recommendation: Focus on the technical aspect= s > and not whether something is in the Charter or not! If there is WG > consensus, a Charter can be amended to include new work. On the other han= d, > while a Charter is used to provide scope and focus, it must not be used a= s > justification for doing work in the absence of discussion and consensus. > > ZTR> I agree with your point here. The document does not need to discuss > about the charter. So can I say the Chairs and anybody should not block > this work with the interpretation of current charter? The point I tried to make above is about not blindly allowing or blocking something just because it is in the Charter, or not. =C2=A0For both scenarios (written in the Charter or not) the important parts are discussion and consensus. =C2=A0IOW, nothing should progress if there is no WG consensus on it. Alvaro. From nobody Mon Aug 10 19:08:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F87F3A0EC5; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 19:08:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZMLlXb4xesen; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 19:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BB173A0EC2; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 19:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml728-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 9795059E69C9578D9C8B; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 03:08:08 +0100 (IST) Received: from nkgeml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.154) by lhreml728-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.79) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 03:08:08 +0100 Received: from nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.157) by nkgeml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 10:08:05 +0800 Received: from nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.98.57.157]) by nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.98.57.157]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 10:08:05 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Alvaro Retana , "draft-pfister-bier-over-ipv6@ietf.org" , "draft-xu-bier-encapsulation@ietf.org" , "draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation@ietf.org" , "draft-zhang-bier-bierin6@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org" CC: "bier-chairs@ietf.org" , "bier@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER/IPv6 Requirements and Solutions Thread-Index: AQHWbMW/8KSCgA90lECbKPzj4GEb4qkwuWMggABBNICAAScmkA== Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 02:08:05 +0000 Message-ID: <9246fef7ff8d40b28fb51034874e78d4@huawei.com> References: <1ae42930c57c4a4f953136de2ff7707d@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.128] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER/IPv6 Requirements and Solutions X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 02:08:16 -0000 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aGVyZSBpcyBubyBXRyBjb25zZW5zdXMgb24gaXQuDQoNClpUUj4gVGhlIGNvbnNlbnN1cyBzaG91 bGQgYmUgYmFzZWQgb24gcmVhc29uYWJsZSB0ZWNobmljYWwgcG9pbnRzLiBPdGhlcndpc2UgSSBj YW4gc2ltcGx5IG9iamVjdCBhbnkgcHJvcG9zYWwuIFRoZSBjaGFpcnMgc2hvdWxkIHJlbWluZCB0 aGlzIGFuZCBndWlkZSB0aGUgcmlnaHQgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbi4gQnV0LCBpbiB0aGlzIHdvcmtpbmcg Z3JvdXAsIGEgbG90IG9mIG5vbi10ZWNobmljYWwgcG9pbnRzIGluIG15IHBlcnNwZWN0aXZlLg0K SSBkbyBub3QgdGhpbmsgdGhlIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gc2hvdWxkIHJ1biBsaWtlIHRoaXMuDQoNCkFs dmFyby4NCg== From nobody Wed Aug 12 20:22:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8433A0E7F; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 20:22:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <159728895715.25444.15149655174418636865@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 20:22:37 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-yang-02.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 03:22:37 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : A YANG data model for Traffic Engineering for Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER-TE) Authors : Zheng(Sandy) Zhang Cui(Linda) Wang Ran Chen Fangwei Hu Mahesh Sivakumar Huanan Chen Filename : draft-ietf-bier-te-yang-02.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2020-08-12 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model for Traffic Engineering for Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER-TE) configuration and operation. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-te-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-te-yang-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-te-yang-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-te-yang-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Aug 12 20:31:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42C23A15FA for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 20:31:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hIxvor5Z4ybI for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 20:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x636.google.com (mail-pl1-x636.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::636]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 760853A15FD for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 20:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x636.google.com with SMTP id f5so2010470plr.9 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 20:31:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date:subject:message-id :to; bh=ooCEvu+MR3rXkWw1fOUIDb3sWhB2+Tl3l6pCai6uIVQ=; b=BmaVIWeT/hEakdDADRTMOCaf7alIHjDRU64n8WPDJzPPHRCY/QUcf0uD7h5nhdjm4e +RZfeFddLlemYdTIyKKRrvEz5LvAD042PmMd2k5gfcAJkHm5p+NuGmirmBLVuBPIOeAz dnz9u6TkAR/8Yyf54Y1jmMTqZZdCr/tk8TvRbrJIZ+JISE8ktAScXGkNLpQDsV7LUw7V 49O82he1f3LhW0rcacOWhMBJC7y6BkhViewdXR9bZQOY+CxG6fU1JsdDQ2WYhESx16Mu OcOZb8F0JoG8fcON3rWQFI9ITcuB2TE0BGb2ykTv5YFdqxSd9PP7487h/8mgesJx8dQY nLsw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date :subject:message-id:to; bh=ooCEvu+MR3rXkWw1fOUIDb3sWhB2+Tl3l6pCai6uIVQ=; b=Vm0xrt89P2TfIow1QFeIJGCQAyhj7OKgWyNXLe2OQOh4Ga+t5OOkz4Qgy64IjBvCi3 og8nRI7zpOhX6/Fpma2ccva+kCPI5RhcX3seQo1pBoBPnt+DgkhoqTxjVDSY+JGZtMyX xNRfQ7Vq1PJ3upN9OJlD5FoQCzOz3HNrOwwdASmTNZBleFhDB4Cd04nlJEB0FS1JlReA xzECbc731ySM0TvEYX35rvUgzzJbpfHigfdM3envaF90pD72UfY1oBbeqpZjcAv3mc1X 6IKlhxAnx9geAVpOw4vuMU9lj7I4FASo9NN5F7y5nKNzPgbgEcm9353AZZtynVg5gf4m KPnw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532GQI5wKgStVUD5Y25VMXk/tVdt9x+0L7KxlwdIGMggv5VgG0x3 6QaytA4lwn+sZ9KD/Eu1/6TfXxw6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw2YD5HS1VqBDsVVBmzQemxioLL7RTMq/ChIZahIyyckEsO9txGe1SaVgOy6IGUvHK+FhPuTQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:bcc5:: with SMTP id o5mr2235964pls.335.1597289462729; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 20:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.100.106.105] (mobile-166-176-186-70.mycingular.net. [166.176.186.70]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a15sm3859787pfo.185.2020.08.12.20.31.01 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 12 Aug 2020 20:31:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Shepherd X-Google-Original-From: Greg Shepherd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-16C712A0-35A2-4017-88C4-7F77BC930577 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 20:31:01 -0700 Message-Id: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> To: bier@ietf.org X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17D50) Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 03:31:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail-16C712A0-35A2-4017-88C4-7F77BC930577 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this draft previou= sly, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better.=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/ Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19. - Shep (Chairs)= --Apple-Mail-16C712A0-35A2-4017-88C4-7F77BC930577 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please read and respond to this thread.= We had a WGLC for this draft previously, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s= do better. 


Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19= .

- Shep
(Chairs)
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Mon, 17 Aug 2020 21:51:58 +0000 From: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: Greg Shepherd , "bier@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php Thread-Index: AQHWcSI1KQEDbG6bQU2mcaV+aAp4aKk83oyQ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 21:51:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [174.112.72.100] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 7feb514d-9633-4d94-6803-08d842f7c3b9 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR08MB4940: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:4714; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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"bier@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php Thread-Index: AQHWcSI7zdc5uL7o0kqkG1Km9yHz3qk99oVQ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:35:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.165.123] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_d3e78ad9427c4bcf988877488bae31c3huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:36:08 -0000 --_000_d3e78ad9427c4bcf988877488bae31c3huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:55:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x233.google.com with SMTP id w25so22182927ljo.12 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:55:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LR/mvB3lbYfGP/uOdDMFTQh/R82i7eT/Pbk5HRsMPoI=; b=gRQ6JPK/evotQolgeBavTzjaL7s0yKfwcgkt2x/VZr+3YNCIEdp1YWvJOlivIRTio9 2WDPjfj+L2rha8laKlWEbF0FUXS3uuoelkOnVkh6BA3R7MpbycLt16Ld3MWfdikYUT+r LsL3ot69gmJQMDLFMCzkZ84W42GtdDuJvdNhksaAgak04qyFtt5NoNim9DYZprSGAMqy +nh7wCjU+TmuUuZ7d6jaG6bZeI1PFzuXCng/b/xV0F3uW4zqbhKd/w40OIST8SR6oVa2 LKIoykhm0wc/P8tpo8pNKImONRrUQk5lcPPM/Lv6UUR4HdrD1+BaCFCKDGDdNsJoXjbV RyxA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LR/mvB3lbYfGP/uOdDMFTQh/R82i7eT/Pbk5HRsMPoI=; b=ff3CEHjwXAxbywVaWOCNGsC8QgqUZ5gH8ajUhSsLS7YiS/qJiDH4jOwXfgTxOlflVf tD/pxyvVO2S5OOzKfhOQQEUcyZihoc2smBP6rkMBmQI0bSC8JJKC89lOVk2X1ya6pEcN rFOzFAkkdiEVIn3Hb6WmTOXRnALRjP2uU17iPwUVsNlZq9ArgId7oXD3eudJjOkAaPNq /DkQbZrVmr7frjAnFdDvvc8d0mKe6akGYiWMfZ0f/jJp7ecR+Vdzeaa95a2blB0+nRT9 58DA/ok+mgF2APbcKjs7uMhgTTZkkKS7r1iBOwH/UwMbV6zYt8wU+lnVdA+uxznWLfSS XHLw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532mRhQ4vXxhcn3Yuj0y+Zo8Xablw6noF+sno5XRrty8wTEwi3Ua 1+VO8OxycEm4M4OjHZT1qq1ACO/YFVTSmCKy+uk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxVsJJZBARl1Eq/kT9RvEhp5bvTfjNk5wrhY3n6DKhc+FOd/6XWiR/nhNuVFPTerQuM9YYwceiBMgZ09Es/i+E= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b8cb:: with SMTP id s11mr10925866ljp.110.1597769754454; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:55:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:55:42 -0700 Message-ID: To: Greg Shepherd Cc: BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a5b20b05ad29c232" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:55:59 -0000 --000000000000a5b20b05ad29c232 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg S., et al., I've read the draft and support its publication. The document is well-written and addresses the practical use case. Several nits for the next update: Abstract - AFAIK, references are not used in the Abstract, documents mentioned as text, e.g., RFC 6514 or RFC 7432. In the text - s/BIER capable/BIER-capable/4 - s/the preferred the choice/the preferred choice/ - s/BIER incapable/BIER-incapable/7 The Security Considerations section might benefit from references to BIER Architecture and "OSPF/ISIS/BGP extensions for BIER signaling" mentioned there. Regards, Greg M On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 8:31 PM Greg Shepherd wrote: > > Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this draft > previously, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/ > > Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19.. > > - Shep > (Chairs) > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > --000000000000a5b20b05ad29c232 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Greg S., et al.,
I've read the draft and suppor= t its publication. The document is well-written and addresses the practical= use case.

Several nits for the next update:
=
Abstract
  • AFAIK, references are not used in the Abstr= act, documents mentioned as text, e.g., RFC 6514 or RFC 7432.
In t= he text
  • s/BIER capable/BIER-capable/4
  • s/the prefe= rred the choice/the preferred choice/
  • s/BIER incapable/BIER-incapab= le/7
The Security Considerations section might benefit from r= eferences to BIER Architecture and "OSPF/ISIS/BGP extensions for BIER = signaling" mentioned there.

Regards,
Greg M

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 8:31 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:

Please= read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this draft previously, = but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better.=C2=A0

Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..

- Shep
(Chairs)
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BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
--000000000000a5b20b05ad29c232-- From nobody Tue Aug 18 17:38:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6557D3A1066 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:38:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.329 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.329 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, INVALID_MSGID=0.568, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ipf5utxl8c8H for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta3.chinamobile.com (cmccmta3.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618663A0F4A for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.1]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app09-12009 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee95f3c744edb2-bcc82; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 08:37:36 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee95f3c744edb2-bcc82 X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from LAPTOP-5GS3BPC8 (unknown[223.69.29.119]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr01-12001 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee15f3c744caea-5ddbe; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 08:37:35 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee15f3c744caea-5ddbe MIME-Version: 1.0 x-PcFlag: ab7c66ac-09ca-4cbd-9b2d-23ba72a6de2f_5_12738 X-Mailer: PC_RICHMAIL 2.8.2 Date: 19 Aug 2020 08:37:33 +0800 From: =?utf-8?B?WWlzb25nIExpdQ==?= To: =?utf-8?B?R3JlZyBTaGVwaGVyZA==?=, bier Message-ID: 20200819083733227657013@chinamobile.com> Content-Type: multipart/Alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart227657013_=----" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] =?utf-8?q?RE=EF=BC=9A__WGLC=3A_draft-ietf-bier-php?= X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:38:02 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart227657013_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQ1IaSBhbGwNDQ0NDUkgc3VwcG9ydCBtb3ZpbmcgZm9yd2FyZCBvZiB0aGUgZHJhZnQuIEl0IGlz IHZlcnkgdXNlZnVsIGZvciBCSUVSIGRlcGxveW1lbnQuDQ0NDQ1UaGFua3MNDVlpc29uZw0NIA0N DQ3lj5Hku7bkuro6IEdyZWcgU2hlcGhlcmQNDeaXtumXtDogMjAyMC8wOC8xMyjmmJ/mnJ/lm5sp MTE6MzENDeaUtuS7tuS6ujogYmllcjsNDeS4u+mimDogW0JpZXJdIFdHTEM6IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYt Ymllci1waHANUGxlYXNlIHJlYWQgYW5kIHJlc3BvbmQgdG8gdGhpcyB0aHJlYWQuIFdlIGhhZCBh IFdHTEMgZm9yIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgcHJldmlvdXNseSwgYnV0IGhhZCBubyByZXNwb25zZS4gTGV0 4oCZcyBkbyBiZXR0ZXIuIA0NDQ0NaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJh ZnQtaWV0Zi1iaWVyLXBocC8NDQ0NDVN0YXJ0IG9mIHNob3J0IExDIHRpbWVyLiBSZXNwb25kIGJ5 IEF1ZyAxOS4uDQ0NDQ0tIFNoZXANDShDaGFpcnMp ------=_001_NextPart227657013_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H= i=20all

I=20support=20moving=20forward=20of=20the=20draft.=20It=20i= s=20very=20useful=20for=20BIER=20deployment.

Thanks
Yisong
&nbs= p;
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:=20Greg=20Shepherd=E6=97=B6=E9=97= =B4:=202020/08/13(=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E5=9B=9B)11:31=E6=94= =B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:=20bier;= =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:=20=5BBier=5D=20WGLC:=20draft-ietf-bier= -php
Please=20read=20and=20respond=20to=20this= =20thread.=20We=20had=20a=20WGLC=20for=20this=20draft=20previously,=20but= =20had=20no=20response.=20Let=E2=80=99s=20do=20better. 

=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/
Start=20of=20short=20LC=20timer.=20Respond=20by=20Aug=2019..

-=20Shep
(Chairs)
------=_001_NextPart227657013_=------ From nobody Tue Aug 18 18:40:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFF0B3A1091 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 18:40:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DdK3EM6SUyiK for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 18:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 180B23A1065 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 18:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml715-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id B933ED2ECA88956AD6EE; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 02:40:54 +0100 (IST) Received: from nkgeml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.40) by lhreml715-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.66) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 02:40:54 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by nkgeml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.40) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:40:51 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:40:51 +0800 From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" To: Greg Shepherd , "bier@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php Thread-Index: AQHWcSI7kKJt2oApPkmt7BAtfrraaKk+sRRA Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 01:40:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.242.209] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_e32aa446ef724e1287cd60975c265417huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 01:40:58 -0000 --_000_e32aa446ef724e1287cd60975c265417huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HEB6aow3XaOv for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 04:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 860C33A08AE for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 04:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.19] (unknown [122.2.101.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 73046326394; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:37:46 +0200 (CEST) To: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" , Greg Shepherd , "bier@ietf.org" References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> From: Loa Andersson Cc: Dhruv Dhody Message-ID: <1ad450e3-4c9b-c5ee-b68d-1a6c094105f8@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 19:37:14 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:37:56 -0000 All, yes, support. I have one thought that possibly don't need to have an impact on progressing this draft. If you think of the p2mp forwarding tree in bier as a p2mp LSP, it seems to me that the LSP setup by this draft ends on penultimate node (which is kind of an oxymoron). The ultimate node is also the node th do the PHP, which would make it UHP. If the LSP ends on a node that is the ultimate node. For example in MPLS the LSP ends on the ultimate node, while the pen-ultimate node does the PHP. It would also be interesting to know how PCE does this. Dhruv? As I said, don't let thgis stop progressing this draft, but we maybe should sit down and and come with a unified way of using the concepts. On 19/08/2020 09:40, Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) wrote: > Yes, support ! > > Best Regards > > Xuesong > > *From:*BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd > *Sent:* Thursday, August 13, 2020 11:31 AM > *To:* bier@ietf.org > *Subject:* [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php > > > Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this draft > previously, but had no response. Let’s do better. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/ > > Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19.. > > - Shep > > (Chairs) > > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Wed Aug 19 07:24:11 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975523A0B2F for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:24:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t_5sOV32l_rt for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:24:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com (mail-io1-xd2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 475F83A0A3B for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:24:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id g19so24870960ioh.8 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:24:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=M6JZOws0wp0YSZjpZIjL7mdjMQoK/DEK1m1lh6e/zCk=; b=h3t3NzOAnm6FasxD/RaGo7J7sLELb0Wg7VJegU7rbLRM6ulRwpCi+uowJ+lckcnX9W M+M5S0r4fcDUNDEgJtQIB8dTt6z0A70+/xUOI56LxSsr3Lix/pimdX1gUbjFOIydszv9 1mqtqax8G8sBkJ1Xqyq6RCEBXggaHgZC6Ydt3XTpgdrEGAze1Z0mMJ/vrNbMvys09PS6 H/9tF/1CAAEsGwCSnGrXEKz8d3J+LkzM/MQaAQ/DY6RJjtjHklXKjGBGAEo8Dxz+pjSY vwGrv6p5F36nVSON56+V8vRvkBpdNJBkOiVjm/Xa/b7nMSQFwKybXuRFVZpXaffJ57as 2pzw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=M6JZOws0wp0YSZjpZIjL7mdjMQoK/DEK1m1lh6e/zCk=; b=TPUjR3OZZXTdWAnyNJHc9JllYm/pMv5sfbLQ/Y6ljKSlEKaGgBCxiXhhjZPTpHCN4W FAgaHLmxIJEnq0+82kAiycUknr/GkMgSmHNMyhKfEuqZ2yCrWbP8U2CzPNVrMInk98TR AcEfTfgnms0sGhXuCaPw/n799Le5UVLpmYFY1eWWU6XVYADXiZ380I0WSarGPG1pDz7w qhV89BdGR+ix5UeVHPLn0PeYXkDF5wFyA+qwHvwmbxC8Q1fXQH/XXKeDPd8F+yv5nqfl 83WKU4tidCjJqvLZAWb3Mm+k4GXUaHXkfThg+ZlxCLiK38VHKAzVzgy9HRQOU6JnrKSl 6L4w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530xz5xcgkDLtb8dNb639aaQXHyDp2ltLlHy9g7//CGMB5yQU5o5 EoKYwhnXwO9YgHdGoydJbyDfyZcpbmbcSud3L50= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw76nsYa4HFaucuoFhk7Nm8hq6uNvyic0QUVDSecrdZEB3LrimqgGRpHPir5KMexdrCec2pqupyhPcYWUg6Tmo= X-Received: by 2002:a02:9307:: with SMTP id d7mr23657321jah.71.1597847048314; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:24:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> <1ad450e3-4c9b-c5ee-b68d-1a6c094105f8@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <1ad450e3-4c9b-c5ee-b68d-1a6c094105f8@pi.nu> From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 19:53:31 +0530 Message-ID: To: Loa Andersson Cc: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" , Greg Shepherd , "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:24:11 -0000 Hi Loa, On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 5:07 PM Loa Andersson wrote: > > All, > > yes, support. > > I have one thought that possibly don't need to have an impact on > progressing this draft. > > If you think of the p2mp forwarding tree in bier as a p2mp LSP, > it seems to me that the LSP setup by this draft ends on penultimate > node (which is kind of an oxymoron). The ultimate node is also the > node th do the PHP, which would make it UHP. If the LSP ends on a node > that is the ultimate node. > > For example in MPLS the LSP ends on the ultimate node, while the > pen-ultimate node does the PHP. > > It would also be interesting to know how PCE does this. Dhruv? > In my understanding, from the control plane point of view, the LSP does not end on the penultimate node, the destination is the ultimate node. While in the forwarding the bier header could be popped on the penultimate node and packet sent to the ultimate node, but the LSP's destination still is the ultimate node. BTW in PCE P2MP documents, you would not find any reference to PHP. >From the P2MP tree path computation point of view, the computation is done till the ultimate node and it is up to the signaling to handle PHP. Thanks! Dhruv > As I said, don't let thgis stop progressing this draft, but we > maybe should sit down and and come with a unified way of using > the concepts. > > On 19/08/2020 09:40, Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) wrote: > > Yes, support ! > > > > Best Regards > > > > Xuesong > > > > *From:*BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 13, 2020 11:31 AM > > *To:* bier@ietf.org > > *Subject:* [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php > > > > > > Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this draft > > previously, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better. > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/ > > > > Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19.. > > > > - Shep > > > > (Chairs) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > -- > > Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com > Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Wed Aug 19 09:08:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7803B3A1038 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham 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16:07:45 +0000 From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" To: Dhruv Dhody , Loa Andersson CC: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" , "bier@ietf.org" , Greg Shepherd Thread-Topic: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php Thread-Index: AQHWcSIyKr0dgAB8QECWZeOo5tdQgqk+sUWAgACmoQCAAC52gIAAHFYg Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:07:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> <1ad450e3-4c9b-c5ee-b68d-1a6c094105f8@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-08-19T16:07:44Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; 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Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:08:13 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4gSW4gbXkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZywgZnJvbSB0aGUgY29udHJvbCBwbGFuZSBwb2lu dCBvZiB2aWV3LCB0aGUgTFNQIGRvZXMgbm90IGVuZCBvbiB0aGUgcGVudWx0aW1hdGUgbm9kZSwg dGhlIGRlc3RpbmF0aW9uIGlzIHRoZSB1bHRpbWF0ZSBub2RlLiBXaGlsZSBpbiB0aGUgZm9yd2Fy ZGluZyB0aGUgYmllciBoZWFkZXIgY291bGQgYmUgcG9wcGVkIG9uIHRoZSBwZW51bHRpbWF0ZSBu b2RlIGFuZCBwYWNrZXQgc2VudCB0byB0aGUgdWx0aW1hdGUgbm9kZSwgYnV0IHRoZSBMU1AncyBk ZXN0aW5hdGlvbiBzdGlsbCBpcyB0aGUgdWx0aW1hdGUgbm9kZS4NCg0KVGhhdCdzIGhvdyBJIHNl ZSBpdCBhcyB3ZWxsLiBJbiBCSUVSIGNhc2UsIHRoZSBwZW51bHRpbWF0ZSBub2RlIGlzIGEgQkZS LCBhbmQgdGhlIHVsdGltYXRlIG5vZGUgaXMgYSBCRkVSIGluIGNvbnRyb2wgcGxhbmUgKGluIHRo YXQgaXQgaGFzIEJGUi1pZCBhbmQgcGFydGljaXBhdGUgaW4gQklFUiBzaWduYWxpbmcpIHRob3Vn 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RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cy7zN_21O1Os; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 00:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8471C3A095F; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 00:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml703-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 91DF6B19921B0EAB1DA2; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 08:14:11 +0100 (IST) Received: from nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.157) by lhreml703-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 08:14:10 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.157) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 15:14:07 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 15:14:07 +0800 From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" To: Mike McBride , "draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org" , "bier@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: BIER IPv6 Requirement Thread-Index: AdZ2v8bLfTLG4bZiScmsiW4U3pxzaA== Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 07:14:07 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.242.209] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_004_ee1dc8621a8447d8a910f47712d5669chuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] BIER IPv6 Requirement X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 07:14:20 -0000 --_004_ee1dc8621a8447d8a910f47712d5669chuaweicom_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ee1dc8621a8447d8a910f47712d5669chuaweicom_" --_000_ee1dc8621a8447d8a910f47712d5669chuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mike, authors and WG, I have read through the existing version of draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requiremen= ts and the comments in the mailing list. The concerns for this document ma= inly comes from three aspects: 1. The problem statement: why we need BIER IPv6 solution (which I thi= nk is straight forward: we need solution(s) to deploy BIER in an IPv6 domai= n) 2. The conceptual model for BIER IPv6 encapsulation (the existing mod= el classification seems to be roughly agreed in the WG but the descriptions= should be modified based on the comments) 3. The requirement items and classification I think the previous two points mainly request editing work and a document = with some my personal recommended text could be found in the attachment jus= t for your reference. For the third point, I list the requirement items based on the existing dis= cussions in the WG as follows: Mandatory: ? L2 Agnostic (may be removed) ? Align to BIER architecture defined in RFC8279 (may be removed) ? Support deployment with Non-BFR routers ? Support OAM ? Support overlay service, e.g., MVPN, EVPN Optional: ? Support native IPv6 functions, e.g., IPSEC, Fragmentation ? Support inter-AS multicast deployment ? Provide necessary security methods (may be removed) I suggest to discuss and confirm these items in WG first, including what sh= ould be included/excluded, which one should be mandatory etc., then we coul= d work on the detailed explanations for each item. Best Regards Xuesong --_000_ee1dc8621a8447d8a910f47712d5669chuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi M= ike, authors and WG,

 

I ha= ve read through the existing version of draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements a= nd the comments in the mailing list.  The concerns for this document m= ainly comes from three aspects:

1= .   &= nbsp;   The problem statement: = why we need BIER IPv6 solution (which I think is straight forward: we need = solution(s) to deploy BIER in an IPv6 domain)

2= .   &= nbsp;   The conceptual model fo= r BIER IPv6 encapsulation (the existing model classification seems to be ro= ughly agreed in the WG but the descriptions should be modified based on the= comments)

3= .   &= nbsp;   The requirement items a= nd classification

 

I th= ink the previous two points mainly request editing work and a document with= some my personal recommended text could be found in the attachment just fo= r your reference.

For = the third point, I list the requirement items based on the existing discuss= ions in the WG as follows:

M= andatory:

<= span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">Ÿ   L2 Agnostic (may be rem= oved)

<= span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">Ÿ   Align to BIER architect= ure defined in RFC8279 (may be removed)

<= span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">Ÿ   Support deployment with= Non-BFR routers

<= span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">Ÿ   Support OAM<= /span>

<= span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">Ÿ   Support overlay service= , e.g., MVPN, EVPN

O= ptional:

<= span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">Ÿ   Support native IPv6 fun= ctions, e.g., IPSEC, Fragmentation

<= span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">Ÿ   Support inter-AS multic= ast deployment

<= span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">Ÿ   Provide necessary secur= ity methods (may be removed)

 

I su= ggest to discuss and confirm these items in WG first, including what should= be included/excluded, which one should be mandatory etc., then we could wo= rk on the detailed explanations for each item.

 

Best= Regards

Xues= ong

 

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text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.14.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <159793552524.31327.45624048892277947@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 07:58:45 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-tether-00.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 14:58:46 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : Tethering A BIER Router To A BIER incapable Router Authors : Zhaohui Zhang Nils Warnke IJsbrand Wijnands Daniel Awduche Filename : draft-ietf-bier-tether-00.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2020-08-20 Abstract: This document specifies optional procedures to optimize the handling of Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) incapable routers, by attaching (tethering) a BIER router to a BIER incapable router. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-tether/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-tether-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-tether-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Aug 20 08:53:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5B63A02BC; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 08:53:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ap5Kiu6iUoiS; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 08:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vs1-xe30.google.com (mail-vs1-xe30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1941A3A0141; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 08:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vs1-xe30.google.com with SMTP id n25so1320975vsq.6; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 08:53:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=PeHKCbvfLu3F/hHJYmqH9AAK3bIoLy8MLlnwDoLZ6hY=; b=U5nCE66Bm4S0ChnwIoY3metOsCMR/jl80d03Wx0gkerTPk2UKTpTGedDCIGkjdVqPo iWar3Jn9wgptFmTkPzCAQ6O3U4eos/2jrYbW6hzANdzkk7zly11DJUJ/gTi2D9k8ou+B bdIGJinkxNM4HuQMsHUsLt5i+oB3BH7mpjhT4gt9zKEoM6jGLm9w3tyQajq7PyVKh1Z3 f6uoBDkEMvH7hMS5siV7SqXTMwPp31B2rlusaSILWlS2NQNpQbxm9qxtPLzJlhWf11f2 zKo5MHlPxyHc0DUA/DS6hP06Vl5oTQm/y5VgBbz0aTaQ6ztf7SUJiB/dXT5YkYB2cUM8 1gKw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PeHKCbvfLu3F/hHJYmqH9AAK3bIoLy8MLlnwDoLZ6hY=; b=lrh4aTaJ2mkmcz/Fei/AQ0sFVYIvmDlodMZAo3T9AqaZV2Eppurtie0KJ13DXIm0hq pl8fZSfwAIppli9iBr4M5NSXRPv/JkQq8BmvdEdl5qyHxRZngzuINtyyilIBRg7T3Wba SBO0ypd/xTburqgH5dZIhtbfzF3vfFL2opAbUJwIbrH6LJT8PwZUx6uGmPuE1DYnaPOD 91qv3/j42QWKd9GfytHceGX4/nHd1xhfiV2mKD9yvhxCnjyUDP28wlklmlblktP0JuWT tcFp/RNuDdvVwGzalk9LjPAWc2ch7z/CuBm1GGTl+B0gQGbgM3/Cvaf6ZBzx2vvZWaIk rz/g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530233mqlAA2AFJBeyg+kVXnpqCpPA5A5Kgbz1YKOQVj/gRKJWMV YRFxaJcY26ui64MSKld4YSMzx9c7nqS1rBiH8v0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw4A7xRw5ZS1U3Wfhjr87RvEssEioA/la++1UMJTMOzCbFgNSJGCD8SJ9NlGxVUT+DnfSucZV9Igp/24rfmBXk= X-Received: by 2002:a67:ce12:: with SMTP id s18mr2587586vsl.116.1597938779045; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 08:52:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 11:52:47 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" Cc: Mike McBride , "bier@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004c419a05ad511d8b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER IPv6 Requirement X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 15:53:02 -0000 --0000000000004c419a05ad511d8b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Xuesong I am working on an update I will be posting to GitHub using Mikes version. The main item I am updating is clarifying the BIER layers definition In the drawing and verbiage with the three layers so it=E2=80=99s crystal clear th= at we discussed in our understanding discussion. Their were some comments that Alvaro mentioned so I am trying to address some of those as well. I will be completed tomorrow and then you can update the draft with comments. Mike has a -mm version that I am building on in GitHub link below. https://github.com/mmcbride7/bier-v6-requirements Thanks Gyan On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:14 AM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) < gengxuesong@huawei.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, authors and WG, > > > > > > I have read through the existing version of > draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements and the comments in the mailing list. > The concerns for this document mainly comes from three aspects: > > > > > 1.. > > The problem statement: why we need BIER IPv6 solution (which I think is > straight forward: we need solution(s) to deploy BIER in an IPv6 domain) > > > > > 2.. > > The conceptual model for BIER IPv6 encapsulation (the existing model > classification seems to be roughly agreed in the WG but the descriptions > should be modified based on the comments) > > > > > 3.. > > The requirement items and classification > > > > > > > I think the previous two points mainly request editing work and a documen= t > with some my personal recommended text could be found in the attachment > just for your reference. > > > For the third point, I list the requirement items based on the existing > discussions in the WG as follows: > > > *Mandatory:* > > > > > =C5=B8 > > L2 Agnostic (may be removed) > > > > > =C5=B8 > > Align to BIER architecture defined in RFC8279 (may be removed) > > > > > =C5=B8 > > Support deployment with Non-BFR routers > > > > > =C5=B8 > > Support OAM > > > > > =C5=B8 > > Support overlay service, e.g., MVPN, EVPN > > > *Optional:* > > > > > =C5=B8 > > Support native IPv6 functions, e.g., IPSEC, Fragmentation > > > > > =C5=B8 > > Support inter-AS multicast deployment > > > > > =C5=B8 > > Provide necessary security methods (may be removed) > > > > > > I suggest to discuss and confirm these items in WG first, including what > should be included/excluded, which one should be mandatory etc., then we > could work on the detailed explanations for each > > item. > > > > > > Best Regards > > > Xuesong > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > -- *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --0000000000004c419a05ad511d8b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Xuesong=C2=A0

I am working on an update I will be posting to GitHub= using Mikes version.

Th= e main item I am updating is clarifying the BIER layers definition In the d= rawing and verbiage with the three layers so it=E2=80=99s crystal clear tha= t we discussed in our understanding discussion.

=
Their were some comments that Alvaro mentioned so I= am trying to address some of those as well.

I will be completed tomorrow and then you can update t= he draft with comments. =C2=A0

Mike has a -mm version that I am building on in GitHub link below.


Thanks=C2=A0

Gyan


On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:14 AM Gengxueso= ng (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong= @huawei.com> wrote:















Hi Mike, authors and WG,


=C2=A0



I have read through the existing versio= n of draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements and the comments in the mailing list= .=C2=A0 The concerns for this document mainly comes from three aspects:<= /u>





1..=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

The problem statement: why we need BIER IPv6 solution (which I = think is straight forward: we need solution(s) to deploy BIER in an IPv6 do= main)





2..=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

The conceptual model for BIER IPv6 encapsulation (the ex= isting model classification seems to be roughly agreed in the WG but the de= scriptions should be modified based on the comments)



3..=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0

The requi= rement items and classification



= =C2=A0



I think the previous two points mainly request = editing work and a document with some my personal recommended text could be= found in the attachment just for your reference.

<= br>

For the third point, I list the requirement items based on the existing = discussions in the WG as follows:



Mandatory= :





=C5=B8=C2=A0= =C2=A0

L2 Agnostic = (may be removed)





=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

Al= ign to BIER architecture defined in RFC8279 (may be removed)<= /span>





=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

= Support deployment with Non-BFR r= outers





=C5=B8=C2=A0= =C2=A0

Support OAM<= u>





=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0<= br>
Support overlay ser= vice, e.g., MVPN, EVPN



Optional:




=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

= Support native IPv6 functi= ons, e.g., IPSEC, Fragmentation





=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

Support inter-AS multicast deployment

=



=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

Provide necessary security methods (may be = removed)



=C2=A0


I s= uggest to discuss and confirm these items in WG first, including what shoul= d be included/excluded, which one should be mandatory etc., then we could w= ork on the detailed explanations for each

item.



=C2=A0



Best Regards



Xuesong



= =C2=A0





<= /div>



_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list

BIER@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/bier

--
=


Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

M 301 5= 02-1347
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0
Silver Spring, MD


--0000000000004c419a05ad511d8b-- From nobody Thu Aug 20 09:08:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63FC63A03EA; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:08:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fphihjhmYl3M; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vs1-xe34.google.com (mail-vs1-xe34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AD0E3A0140; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vs1-xe34.google.com with SMTP id n4so1339120vsl.10; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:08:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wjvMMFLqz0royBMCCH3Vat26lHZ/UMiSVxR3kuAtRwo=; b=SKTc8B0ZgMKHxgTTPRz8seJ5RP4OZgFBxY1tJ33jIVoP0cXEP96+yg+Bd1xNzvW2pq zp9IYKgFNUftBzErkQ5BUD2DYOqahWQoFMd35rHELsNNIhkskv6FnkR9SSU39KKulfho DSckF4GGVEX+MGzN38Ek7psChvNq2iSGBx4YBA7bYkipCmnuVr99/jxpFxYkVHu4tZKz zPQTDQLMhnDSQC/xahN5Ed7yu55LVtn8lyxwk101CTulsi4lQk6kmJl7PQzw36RQtFWB TfnAEpIBBDaYjatZHYN7S4YU+/aIZpFHJr2cgH/nGEWyRiQ+BypHjvtxvTUlLLc+jwxM pjcw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wjvMMFLqz0royBMCCH3Vat26lHZ/UMiSVxR3kuAtRwo=; b=RivR90RT2ii5FtS2ii/n0QMiX3k8lmzSPb0Tmq0efOhf4kqkQTBKj84i6B82B3N4z/ oCcE2wwuJyI2SzQXwpdzFSWsdEGC41OR4QXzwjr3lMznhWkRZrFSNlbupygtsCd/v8m2 /k+8up3tr10SaBDKez+wmcZqO7CNyIbQ4YmzAHch4VIuvpFWHD5sXr/gqd8MQtalL+/j TIQmZPtHJ85So19RqNUmCgH4R95WWN5XgmSCsogo/ifJDWF98hi4UE9lVJ4dgToaRM9i LgpXmlMZ/NH28LKFjwXRL92+inmVgUhCwbbrCoYEyNdKQhVATaa2JSX7pm6RYTe1I5uN vwQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530K9oYbgZvQlkd3S/e9y2UIuaay++44PfaOtTL3A1/AC/O176QZ GpxNjvnIzzXQE7AF3JshrWfJPtXEj7LNA7YqYE2ut+esqOVghw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwKAf5fNKvRNk3CAcJXAe21qqq94cpCXfEdAaX08m0og5MEbgnuA/nNtTFe7VnqMnauEv9h+MXmp1c1k1z4Hqw= X-Received: by 2002:a67:f941:: with SMTP id u1mr2595382vsq.128.1597939701172; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:08:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:08:10 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" Cc: Mike McBride , "bier@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000042cd7105ad5154df" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER IPv6 Requirement X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 16:08:25 -0000 --00000000000042cd7105ad5154df Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike I am using your -mm version as the base version as you sand then creating a new -gsm version and a full aggregate version called -final. That way anyone else Xuesong, Jingrong and other authors can create their version and then also update the -final version so we have incremental updates as well as full final version so we can easily make incremental author changes and finalize the =E2=80=9C-final=E2=80=9C version. Thanks Gyan On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 11:52 AM Gyan Mishra wrote: > Hi Xuesong > > I am working on an update I will be posting to GitHub using Mikes version= . > > The main item I am updating is clarifying the BIER layers definition In > the drawing and verbiage with the three layers so it=E2=80=99s crystal cl= ear that > we discussed in our understanding discussion. > > Their were some comments that Alvaro mentioned so I am trying to address > some of those as well. > > I will be completed tomorrow and then you can update the draft with > comments. > > Mike has a -mm version that I am building on in GitHub link below. > > https://github.com/mmcbride7/bier-v6-requirements > > Thanks > > Gyan > > > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:14 AM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) < > gengxuesong@huawei.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Mike, authors and WG, >> >> >> >> >> >> I have read through the existing version of >> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements and the comments in the mailing list. >> The concerns for this document mainly comes from three aspects: >> >> >> >> >> 1.. >> >> The problem statement: why we need BIER IPv6 solution (which I think is >> straight forward: we need solution(s) to deploy BIER in an IPv6 domain) >> >> >> >> >> 2.. >> >> The conceptual model for BIER IPv6 encapsulation (the existing model >> classification seems to be roughly agreed in the WG but the descriptions >> should be modified based on the comments) >> >> >> >> >> 3.. >> >> The requirement items and classification >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I think the previous two points mainly request editing work and a >> document with some my personal recommended text could be found in the >> attachment just for your reference. >> >> >> For the third point, I list the requirement items based on the existing >> discussions in the WG as follows: >> >> >> *Mandatory:* >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> L2 Agnostic (may be removed) >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Align to BIER architecture defined in RFC8279 (may be removed) >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Support deployment with Non-BFR routers >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Support OAM >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Support overlay service, e.g., MVPN, EVPN >> >> >> *Optional:* >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Support native IPv6 functions, e.g., IPSEC, Fragmentation >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Support inter-AS multicast deployment >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Provide necessary security methods (may be removed) >> >> >> >> >> >> I suggest to discuss and confirm these items in WG first, including what >> should be included/excluded, which one should be mandatory etc., then we >> could work on the detailed explanations for each >> >> item. >> >> >> >> >> >> Best Regards >> >> >> Xuesong >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> BIER mailing list >> >> BIER@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> >> -- > > > > *Gyan Mishra* > > *Network Solutions A**rchitect * > > > > *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD > > > > -- *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --00000000000042cd7105ad5154df Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mike=C2=A0

I am using your -mm version as the base version as you sand= then creating a new -gsm version and a full aggregate version called -fina= l.

That way anyone else = Xuesong, Jingrong and other authors can create their version and then also = update the -final version so we have incremental updates as well as full fi= nal version so we can easily make incremental author changes and finalize t= he =E2=80=9C-final=E2=80=9C version.

Thanks

Gyan=

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 11:52 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Xuesong=C2=A0

I am working on an update I will be posting t= o GitHub using Mikes version.

The main item I am updating is clarifying the BIER layers definition = In the drawing and verbiage with the three layers so it=E2=80=99s crystal c= lear that we discussed in our understanding discussion.

Their were some comments that Alvaro mentio= ned so I am trying to address some of those as well.

I will be completed tomorrow and then you can = update the draft with comments. =C2=A0

Mike has a -mm version that I am building on in GitHub link = below.


Thanks=C2=A0

Gyan<= /div>



On Thu, Aug 20,= 2020 at 3:14 AM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.com> wrote:
<= /div>
















Hi Mike,= authors and WG,



=C2=A0

I have read through the existing version of draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requi= rements and the comments in the mailing list.=C2=A0 The concerns for this d= ocument mainly comes from three aspects:





1..=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
The problem statement= : why we need BIER IPv6 solution (which I think is straight forward: we nee= d solution(s) to deploy BIER in an IPv6 domain)




2..=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0

The conceptu= al model for BIER IPv6 encapsulation (the existing model classification see= ms to be roughly agreed in the WG but the descriptions should be modified b= ased on the comments)





3..=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

= The requirement items and classification=



=C2=A0


I t= hink the previous two points mainly request editing work and a document wit= h some my personal recommended text could be found in the attachment just f= or your reference.



For the third point, I list = the requirement items based on the existing discussions in the WG as follow= s:



Mandatory:




=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

L2 Agnostic (may be removed)





<= /u>=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

Align to BIER architecture defined = in RFC8279 (may be removed)





=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

Support deployment with Non-BFR routers

=



=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

Support OAM




=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

<= u>Support overlay service, e.g., MVPN, EVPN=



Optional:





= =C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

= Support native IPv6 functions, e.g., IPSEC, Fragmentat= ion





=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2= =A0

Support inter-A= S multicast deployment





=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

Provide necessary security methods (may be removed)



=C2=A0



I suggest to discuss and conf= irm these items in WG first, including what should be included/excluded, wh= ich one should be mandatory etc., then we could work on the detailed explan= ations for each

item.



=C2=A0=



Best Regards



Xuesong<= u>



=C2=A0









______= _________________________________________

BIER mailing list

<= a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BIER@ietf.org

= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier

--


Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

M 301 502-1347
13101 Col= umbia Pike=C2=A0
Silver Spring, MD




--

=

Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0<= /p>

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0
= Silver Spring, MD


--00000000000042cd7105ad5154df-- From nobody Thu Aug 20 12:55:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD0933A130E; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:55:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.086 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.086 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KXR7xy_R99nG; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x102a.google.com (mail-pj1-x102a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5BE93A0D6E; 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Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.1.20.196] ([208.85.232.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y135sm3925738pfg.148.2020.08.20.12.55.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:55:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Shepherd X-Google-Original-From: Greg Shepherd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-B6B64FA6-AAC0-4415-8060-3EE9A2054D41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:55:11 -0700 Message-Id: References: Cc: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" , "draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org" , Mike McBride , "bier@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: To: Gyan Mishra X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17D50) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER IPv6 Requirement X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 19:55:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail-B6B64FA6-AAC0-4415-8060-3EE9A2054D41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had comments from a previous thread that need to be considered as well.=20= Shep Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 20, 2020, at 08:53, Gyan Mishra wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Hi Xuesong=20 >=20 > I am working on an update I will be posting to GitHub using Mikes version.= >=20 > The main item I am updating is clarifying the BIER layers definition In th= e drawing and verbiage with the three layers so it=E2=80=99s crystal clear t= hat we discussed in our understanding discussion. >=20 > Their were some comments that Alvaro mentioned so I am trying to address s= ome of those as well. >=20 > I will be completed tomorrow and then you can update the draft with commen= ts. =20 >=20 > Mike has a -mm version that I am building on in GitHub link below. >=20 > https://github.com/mmcbride7/bier-v6-requirements >=20 > Thanks=20 >=20 > Gyan >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:14 AM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Hi Mike, authors and WG, >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> I have read through the existing version of draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirem= ents and the comments in the mailing list.. The concerns for this document m= ainly comes from three aspects: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 1.. =20 >>=20 >> The problem statement: why we need BIER IPv6 solution (which I think is s= traight forward: we need solution(s) to deploy BIER in an IPv6 domain) >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 2.. =20 >>=20 >> The conceptual model for BIER IPv6 encapsulation (the existing model clas= sification seems to be roughly agreed in the WG but the descriptions should b= e modified based on the comments) >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 3.. =20 >>=20 >> The requirement items and classification >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> I think the previous two points mainly request editing work and a documen= t with some my personal recommended text could be found in the attachment ju= st for your reference. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> For the third point, I list the requirement items based on the existing d= iscussions in the WG as follows: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Mandatory: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =C5=B8 =20 >>=20 >> L2 Agnostic (may be removed) >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =C5=B8 =20 >>=20 >> Align to BIER architecture defined in RFC8279 (may be removed) >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =C5=B8 =20 >>=20 >> Support deployment with Non-BFR routers >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =C5=B8 =20 >>=20 >> Support OAM >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =C5=B8 =20 >>=20 >> Support overlay service, e.g., MVPN, EVPN >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Optional: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =C5=B8 =20 >>=20 >> Support native IPv6 functions, e.g., IPSEC, Fragmentation >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =C5=B8 =20 >>=20 >> Support inter-AS multicast deployment >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =C5=B8 =20 >>=20 >> Provide necessary security methods (may be removed) >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> I suggest to discuss and confirm these items in WG first, including what s= hould be included/excluded, which one should be mandatory etc., then we coul= d work on the detailed explanations for each >>=20 >> item. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Best Regards >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Xuesong >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >> BIER mailing list >>=20 >> BIER@ietf.org >>=20 >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >>=20 > --=20 >=20 >=20 > Gyan Mishra > Network Solutions Architect=20 > M 301 502-1347 > 13101 Columbia Pike=20 > Silver Spring, MD >=20 > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier --Apple-Mail-B6B64FA6-AAC0-4415-8060-3EE9A2054D41 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had comments from a previous thread that n= eed to be considered as well. 

Shep

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 20, 2020, at 08:53, Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote= :

=EF=BB= =BF
Hi Xuesong 

=
I am working on an update I will be posting to GitHu= b using Mikes version.

Th= e main item I am updating is clarifying the BIER layers definition In the dr= awing and verbiage with the three layers so it=E2=80=99s crystal clear that w= e discussed in our understanding discussion.

Their were some comments that Alvaro mentioned so I am t= rying to address some of those as well.

I will be completed tomorrow and then you can update the draf= t with comments.  

M= ike has a -mm version that I am building on in GitHub link below.


Thanks 
=
Gyan



On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:14 AM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <= gengxuesong@huawei.com> wro= te:












=




=

Hi Mi= ke, authors and WG,



 

I have read through the existing version of draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requir= ements and the comments in the mailing list..  The concerns for this do= cument mainly comes from three aspects:





1..      

<= /span>The problem statement: why w= e need BIER IPv6 solution (which I think is straight forward: we need soluti= on(s) to deploy BIER in an IPv6 domain)





2..      

<= /span>The conceptual model for BIE= R IPv6 encapsulation (the existing model classification seems to be roughly a= greed in the WG but the descriptions should be modified based on the comment= s)





3.. =      

The requirement items and classification



 



I think the previous two points= mainly request editing work and a document with some my personal recommende= d text could be found in the attachment just for your reference.



For the third point, I list the requirement items based on t= he existing discussions in the WG as follows:


= Mandatory:





=C5=B8&nb= sp; 

L2 Agnosti= c (may be removed)





=C5=B8  

Align t= o BIER architecture defined in RFC8279 (may be removed)=





=C5=B8  

Support deployment with Non-BFR routers




=C5=B8  

Support OAM





= =C5=B8  

Support overlay service, e.g., MVPN, EVPN



Optional:



<= p style=3D"margin-left:21pt;line-height:150%">

= =C5=B8  

Support native IPv6 functions, e.g., IPSEC, Fragmentation<= u>





=C5=B8  
Support inter-AS multicas= t deployment





=C5=B8 = ; 

Provide nece= ssary security methods (may be removed)



&n= bsp;



I suggest to discuss and confirm these items in WG f= irst, including what should be included/excluded, which one should be mandat= ory etc., then we could work on the detailed explanations for each

i= tem.



 



Best Rega= rds



Xuesong



 








______________________________________= _________

BIER mailing list

BIER@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/bier

--

<= a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bot= tom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank">

Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect 

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike 
S= ilver Spring, MD


_______________________________________________
BIER m= ailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/bier
= --Apple-Mail-B6B64FA6-AAC0-4415-8060-3EE9A2054D41-- From nobody Thu Aug 20 13:26:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 819173A13F3; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:26:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UoRgRMH4452Y; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk1-xa35.google.com (mail-vk1-xa35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0E933A13F0; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk1-xa35.google.com with SMTP id i20so716011vkk.2; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:26:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cSPVdmmpV3741MxOGkER6TfJHrfKKgJwpj2blmu5gWU=; b=CjOTpijfZLgN8Nn8LYOIWKDs5Ep56kIblAGEBWiIBVfyoyL8J0jRnmavh2DW6WhJC+ mF9r2a9PB6oKxGhkkgjqFEjlKA7DK5w0/n7gawWWXgMg4U5ctFkZ6tA48DYY/aUfXFJo 72NcmWzPRzX2BzT8pg12+2Rw2xL59Y5bmdkQBjlulsGpfbZDaxgFMuDHb+VL+SLaTgAS Ddzm9ZuoikU3/PukZsuAIaydGYzXaaEHxSQb7QGWdzceIzT35cF1CL4Rp2PKK9QHncyS vdnHZU/dIKEYnGXq5xyatcOG6z6AMkbQGZSReAYYkIz9isTmvbjACLyqvjQ9hjPqS6fe w2pg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cSPVdmmpV3741MxOGkER6TfJHrfKKgJwpj2blmu5gWU=; b=XZlC5NbSx46mc7axa+d3LtjQaYA5j/J0AeD9QFbLoSxmTY3h/ln7YZvDWk3t+ugTRL tBFdr+SEzCyCQj2dDHLUgjJvOfT/YOy9YN8yivXHZ3RnOwRBrYOrg+SvOmzJxp2NLYmr FDMIwYy1JTWBSlB2A1MCWrnZgfY8u23bSuYdT9ptd8XZngeG4rIF2R0QmCPFyed8HgOM jnCZVf0qIkblvbJxt9OMOjV4/2Hr5iVd3GduMtAH0W9zXWLpxooTKxFpFKi47gWYDSAO Ri/iUBaSxkHfQ8qn+PL8SLTlxQpEwM9bc4rQ4AFskJBuwFTe8uD/2F0IDiVbQYX2jyJQ GegQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533A86JfZdZJN9LCCdoGTxyU7oei32qntPe0IZ4t7xuDvaoEWglP hwI+jZvRYv+ztpFCUX13y35VByf7CqvO1VGtTy7QtYWbLGA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJztFWWtXWSYI3CHQZgRzRmWynguyO8SQCelgCi2jrEEnYm/kzFPN6O1FSsRGMTqclY0Ry4blhBK6Vc0WmHjNc4= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:5fcf:: with SMTP id t198mr154004vkb.32.1597955203612; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:26:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 16:22:24 -0400 Message-ID: To: Greg Shepherd Cc: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" , "draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org" , Mike McBride , "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000047443805ad54f0dd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER IPv6 Requirement X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 20:26:47 -0000 --00000000000047443805ad54f0dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes will do. Thanks Gyan On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:55 PM Greg Shepherd wrote: > I had comments from a previous thread that need to be considered as well. > > Shep > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 20, 2020, at 08:53, Gyan Mishra wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > Hi Xuesong > > I am working on an update I will be posting to GitHub using Mikes version= . > > The main item I am updating is clarifying the BIER layers definition In > the drawing and verbiage with the three layers so it=E2=80=99s crystal cl= ear that > we discussed in our understanding discussion. > > Their were some comments that Alvaro mentioned so I am trying to address > some of those as well. > > I will be completed tomorrow and then you can update the draft with > comments. > > Mike has a -mm version that I am building on in GitHub link below. > > https://github.com/mmcbride7/bier-v6-requirements > > > Thanks > > Gyan > > > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:14 AM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) < > gengxuesong@huawei.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Mike, authors and WG, >> >> >> >> >> >> I have read through the existing version of >> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements and the comments in the mailing list.. >> The concerns for this document mainly comes from three aspects: >> >> >> >> >> 1.. >> >> The problem statement: why we need BIER IPv6 solution (which I think is >> straight forward: we need solution(s) to deploy BIER in an IPv6 domain) >> >> >> >> >> 2.. >> >> The conceptual model for BIER IPv6 encapsulation (the existing model >> classification seems to be roughly agreed in the WG but the descriptions >> should be modified based on the comments) >> >> >> >> >> 3.. >> >> The requirement items and classification >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I think the previous two points mainly request editing work and a >> document with some my personal recommended text could be found in the >> attachment just for your reference. >> >> >> For the third point, I list the requirement items based on the existing >> discussions in the WG as follows: >> >> >> *Mandatory:* >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> L2 Agnostic (may be removed) >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Align to BIER architecture defined in RFC8279 (may be removed) >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Support deployment with Non-BFR routers >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Support OAM >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Support overlay service, e.g., MVPN, EVPN >> >> >> *Optional:* >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Support native IPv6 functions, e.g., IPSEC, Fragmentation >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Support inter-AS multicast deployment >> >> >> >> >> =C5=B8 >> >> Provide necessary security methods (may be removed) >> >> >> >> >> >> I suggest to discuss and confirm these items in WG first, including what >> should be included/excluded, which one should be mandatory etc., then we >> could work on the detailed explanations for each >> >> item. >> >> >> >> >> >> Best Regards >> >> >> Xuesong >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> BIER mailing list >> >> BIER@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> >> -- > > > > *Gyan Mishra* > > *Network Solutions A**rchitect * > > > > *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --00000000000047443805ad54f0dd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes will do.

Thanks

Gyan

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:55 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
I had commen= ts from a previous thread that need to be considered as well.=C2=A0
Shep

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 20, 2020, at 08:53, Gyan Mish= ra <hayabusag= sm@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Hi Xuesong=C2=A0

I am working on an upd= ate I will be posting to GitHub using Mikes version.

The main item I am updating is clarifying the = BIER layers definition In the drawing and verbiage with the three layers so= it=E2=80=99s crystal clear that we discussed in our understanding discussi= on.

Their were some comm= ents that Alvaro mentioned so I am trying to address some of those as well.=

I will be completed tom= orrow and then you can update the draft with comments. =C2=A0

Mike has a -mm version that I am buil= ding on in GitHub link below.


Thanks=C2=A0

Gyan



On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:14 AM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawe= i.com> wrote:















Hi Mike, authors and WG,



= =C2=A0



I have read through the existing version of dra= ft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements and the comments in the mailing list..=C2=A0= The concerns for this document mainly comes from three aspects:<= /u>




1..=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

The problem statement: why we need BIER IPv6 solution (which I think is = straight forward: we need solution(s) to deploy BIER in an IPv6 domain)<= /u>





2..=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

The conceptual model for BIER IPv6 encapsulation (the existing = model classification seems to be roughly agreed in the WG but the descripti= ons should be modified based on the comments)


<= br>



3..=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0

The requirement= items and classification



=C2= =A0



I think the previous two points mainly request edi= ting work and a document with some my personal recommended text could be fo= und in the attachment just for your reference.


=

= For the third point, I list the requirement items based on the existing dis= cussions in the WG as follows:



Mandatory:=





<= span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings">=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2= =A0

L2 Agnostic (ma= y be removed)





=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

Align= to BIER architecture defined in RFC8279 (may be removed)





=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

Support deployment with Non-BFR rout= ers





=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2= =A0

Support OAM<= /u>





=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0
=
Support overlay servic= e, e.g., MVPN, EVPN



Optional:<= /span>




=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

<= /span>Support native IPv6 functio= ns, e.g., IPSEC, Fragmentation





=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

Support inter-AS multicast deployment

<= br>



=C5=B8=C2=A0=C2=A0

Provide necessary security methods (may be r= emoved)



=C2=A0



=

I su= ggest to discuss and confirm these items in WG first, including what should= be included/excluded, which one should be mandatory etc., then we could wo= rk on the detailed explanations for each

item.



=C2=A0



Best Regards



Xuesong



= =C2=A0





<= /div>



_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list

BIER@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/bier

--


Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0
Silv= er Spring, MD


<= /div>
_______________________________________________
BIER = mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/= bier


--


Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0
<= /i>Silver Spring, MD


=
--00000000000047443805ad54f0dd-- From nobody Thu Aug 20 18:53:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8821E3A0FF1; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:53:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9-85ILCR_5_B; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67DC53A0FE9; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml740-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id BFB1328DA5A486FED268; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 02:53:38 +0100 (IST) Received: from dggema722-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.86) by lhreml740-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.190) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 02:53:37 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggema722-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.86) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 09:53:35 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 09:53:35 +0800 From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" To: Gyan Mishra , Greg Shepherd CC: "draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements@ietf.org" , Mike McBride , "bier@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER IPv6 Requirement Thread-Index: AdZ2v8bLfTLG4bZiScmsiW4U3pxzaAABx4eAAAh3OYAAAPNWAAAcLZRQ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 01:53:35 +0000 Message-ID: <14679f563d124fbb9b6f8c961ce88d44@huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.242.209] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_14679f563d124fbb9b6f8c961ce88d44huaweicom_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER IPv6 Requirement X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 01:53:44 -0000 --_004_14679f563d124fbb9b6f8c961ce88d44huaweicom_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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ABdhPJwfDNF8k5KqxMViYiuFKLHEEL2/m7kXNKRzhY1k5PYkux8QjSvszCBuoIB83DwFGMtKGlN5JT2Dm2fMv6svlmg= X-Received: by 2002:a9f:29a5:: with SMTP id s34mr3020336uas.111.1598045113915; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 14:25:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> <9300613D-A740-476E-BC8F-3B0D25C8E883@cisco.com> <223C9348-563A-43DC-B9E3-DE978CA7FA68@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <223C9348-563A-43DC-B9E3-DE978CA7FA68@cisco.com> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 17:20:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" Cc: "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" , Greg Shepherd , "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000599c0905ad69dfd8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 21:25:19 -0000 --000000000000599c0905ad69dfd8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support advancing this critical draft forward. I agree that the PHP feature traditionally used with MPLS and has been adopted by SR and now by BIER for similar reasons of being able to pop the BIER header similar to what is done with SR PHP concept and now extensible with BIER for Non-BRF capable PE's. BIER IPv6 is still being developed, however I think maybe BIERin6 could take advantage of PHP by popping the encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER shim for "Non-BFR" capable PE. I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header is encoded in DOH it may be difficult to support PHP. Thanks Gyan On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) wrote: > Support moving this document forward. > > > > *From: *BIER on behalf of "IJsbrand Wijnands > (iwijnand)" > *Date: *Monday, August 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM > *To: *Greg Shepherd > *Cc: *"bier@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php > > > > In support moving this draft forward, > > > > Thx, > > > > Ice. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:31, Greg Shepherd wrote: > > > Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this draft > previously, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better. > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/ > > > > Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19.. > > > > - Shep > > (Chairs) > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --000000000000599c0905ad69dfd8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I support advancing this critical draft forward.= =C2=A0 I agree that the PHP feature traditionally used with MPLS and has be= en adopted by SR and now by BIER for similar reasons of being able to pop t= he BIER header similar to what is done with SR PHP concept and now extensib= le with BIER for Non-BRF capable PE's.=C2=A0

B= IER IPv6 is still being developed, however I think maybe BIERin6 could take= advantage of=C2=A0 PHP by popping the encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER shim for &q= uot;Non-BFR" capable PE.=C2=A0 I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header i= s encoded in DOH it may be difficult to support PHP.

Thanks

Gyan

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 P= M Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Support moving this document forward. =

=C2=A0

From: = BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org>= ; on behalf of "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dma= rc.ietf.org>
Date: Monday, August 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM
To: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Cc: "bier@ie= tf.org" <bie= r@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php

=C2=A0

In support moving this draft forward, =

=C2=A0

Thx,

=C2=A0

Ice.

Sent from my iPhone



On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:3= 1, Greg Shepherd <= gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:


Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this draft previo= usly, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..<= u>

=C2=A0

- Shep

(Chairs)

_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier

_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier


--

Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions A= rchitect=C2= =A0

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia= Pike=C2=A0
Silver Spring, MD


<= /div>
--000000000000599c0905ad69dfd8-- From nobody Fri Aug 21 22:57:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA9F53A0DC8 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 22:57:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.846 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.846 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R_bAQAPEbige for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 22:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 636643A0DC1 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 22:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.19] (unknown [122.2.101.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 384513279B5; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 07:57:16 +0200 (CEST) To: Gyan Mishra , "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" Cc: "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" , Greg Shepherd , "bier@ietf.org" References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> <9300613D-A740-476E-BC8F-3B0D25C8E883@cisco.com> <223C9348-563A-43DC-B9E3-DE978CA7FA68@cisco.com> From: Loa Andersson Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 13:57:03 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 05:57:38 -0000 Working Group, I've had time to read the draft a bit more in detail. I'm convinced that this will work, and support progressing the draft. I still think there are some minor description details that could be improved. The draft says: One way to solve this problem is to use Penultimate Hop Popping (PHP) so that the upstream BFR can pop the BIER header and send the payload "natively" (note that the upstream BFR can be connected directly or indirectly via any type of tunnel to the PE). This is similar to Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) PHP though it is the BIER header that is popped. This indicate that this is a "per node" decision, while in MPLS it is a per LSP decision. I would think that it is possible for one node to be the penultimate node for some traffic but not for other traffic, even though the traffic is sent to the same node, which can be both ultimate node, pen-ultimate node or transit node. +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ | | | | | | -a,b-+ A +-----a',b-----+ B +----a'----+ CPE1 | | | | | | | +-------+ +---+---+ +-------+ | b' | +---+---+ +-------+ | | | | + C +----b'----+ CPE2 | | | | | +---+---+ +-------+ Two streams comes in to A from the left (a and b). A is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE1 (a) so the BIER header is popped. A is not the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b) so the BIER header is popped. Both a' and b is sent to B. B forward a' natively to CPE1. B is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b) so the BIER header is popped. b' is forwarded to C and onto CPE2 Works just fine. Question: If the PHP is a "per node decision" how is A stopped from doing PHP for b? /Loa On 22/08/2020 05:20, Gyan Mishra wrote: > > I support advancing this critical draft forward.  I agree that the PHP > feature traditionally used with MPLS and has been adopted by SR and now > by BIER for similar reasons of being able to pop the BIER header similar > to what is done with SR PHP concept and now extensible with BIER for > Non-BRF capable PE's. > > BIER IPv6 is still being developed, however I think maybe BIERin6 could > take advantage of  PHP by popping the encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER shim for > "Non-BFR" capable PE.  I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header is encoded > in DOH it may be difficult to support PHP. > > Thanks > > Gyan > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) > > wrote: > > Support moving this document forward. ____ > > __ __ > > *From: *BIER > > on behalf of "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" > > > *Date: *Monday, August 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM > *To: *Greg Shepherd > > *Cc: *"bier@ietf.org " > > *Subject: *Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php____ > > __ __ > > In support moving this draft forward, ____ > > __ __ > > Thx,____ > > __ __ > > Ice.____ > > Sent from my iPhone____ > > > > ____ > > On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:31, Greg Shepherd > wrote:____ > > > Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this > draft previously, but had no response. Let’s do better. ____ > > __ __ > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/____ > > __ __ > > Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..____ > > __ __ > > - Shep____ > > (Chairs)____ > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier____ > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > -- > > > > *Gyan Mishra* > > /Network Solutions A//rchitect / > > /M 301 502-1347 > 13101 Columbia Pike > /Silver Spring, MD > > > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Mon Aug 24 00:30:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1253A0B4B for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 00:30:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3g3R6mnCxg86 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 00:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FE3C3A0B48 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 00:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml736-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id CD15479BA0956C3EEEE5; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 08:30:45 +0100 (IST) Received: from nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.157) by lhreml736-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.87) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 08:30:45 +0100 Received: from nkgeml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.154) by nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.157) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 15:30:42 +0800 Received: from nkgeml705-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.98.57.154]) by nkgeml705-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.98.57.154]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 15:30:42 +0800 From: "Xiejingrong (Jingrong)" To: Gyan Mishra , "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" CC: "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" , Greg Shepherd , "bier@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php Thread-Index: AQHWcSI7zdc5uL7o0kqkG1Km9yHz3qk8J6+AgAMVhgCAA1xUAIAEUrRw Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 07:30:42 +0000 Message-ID: <69124cd19b994ec39bc71900054b298f@huawei.com> References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> 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X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.14.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <159829130384.20747.13009464157427481853@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:48:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-php-06.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 17:48:24 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : BIER Penultimate Hop Popping Author : Zhaohui Zhang Filename : draft-ietf-bier-php-06.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2020-08-24 Abstract: Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) can be used as provider tunnel for Multicast Virtual Private Network (MVPN). Global Table Multicast [RFC7716] or Ethernet Virtual Private Network (EVPN). It is possible that not all routers in the provider network support BIER and there are various methods to handle BIER-incapable transit routers. However those methods assume the MVPN/EVPN Provider Edges (PEs) are BIER-capable. This document specifies a method to allow BIER- incapable routers to act as MVPN/EVPN PEs with BIER as the transport, by having the upstream BIER Forwarding Router (BFR) that is connected directly or indirectly via a tunnel to a BIER-incapable PE remove the BIER header and send the payload to the PE. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-php-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-php-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-php-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Mon, 24 Aug 2020 17:50:25 +0000 From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" To: Loa Andersson , 'Greg Mirsky' CC: "bier@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php Thread-Index: AQHWcSIyKr0dgAB8QECWZeOo5tdQgqk8rcuAgAMVhgCAA1xUAIAAkDSAgAO9ESCAAC6AEA== Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 17:50:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> <9300613D-A740-476E-BC8F-3B0D25C8E883@cisco.com> <223C9348-563A-43DC-B9E3-DE978CA7FA68@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-08-24T15:16:03Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=d6ea84f2-2176-4dd4-9fe0-f52d9adf2b40; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Loa, Greg, I've submitted -06 to take care of your comments. Thanks. Jeffrey Juniper Business Use Only From: BIER On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 11:16 AM To: Loa Andersson ; Gyan Mishra ; Mankama= na Mishra (mankamis) Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) ; G= reg Shepherd ; bier@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Loa, Please see zzh> below. -----Original Message----- From: BIER > On Behalf = Of Loa Andersson Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 1:57 AM To: Gyan Mishra >; Mank= amana Mishra (mankamis) > Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) >; Greg Shepherd >; bier@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php [External Email. Be cautious of content] Working Group, I've had time to read the draft a bit more in detail. I'm convinced that this will work, and support progressing the draft. I still think there are some minor description details that could be improv= ed. The draft says: One way to solve this problem is to use Penultimate Hop Popping (PHP) so that the upstream BFR can pop the BIER header and send the payload "natively" (note that the upstream BFR can be connected directly or indirectly via any type of tunnel to the PE). This is similar to Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) PHP though it is the BIER header that is popped. This indicate that this is a "per node" decision, while in MPLS it is a per= LSP decision. Zzh> It's a per node decision for all traffic to a particular "BFER" who do= es not really support BIER forwarding. PHP is not used when the BFERs do su= pport BIER. I would think that it is possible for one node to be the penultimate node f= or some traffic but not for other traffic, even though the traffic is sent = to the same node, which can be both ultimate node, pen-ultimate node or tra= nsit node. +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ | | | | | | -a,b-+ A +-----a',b-----+ B +----a'----+ CPE1 | | | | | | | +-------+ +---+---+ +-------+ | b' | +---+---+ +-------+ | | | | + C +----b'----+ CPE2 | | | | | +---+---+ +-------+ Two streams comes in to A from the left (a and b). A is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE1 (a) so the BIER header is = popped. A is not the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b) so the BIER heade= r is not popped. Zzh> So the context is that B does support BIER. In that case, A won't do P= HP for B at all. Both a' and b is sent to B. B forward a' natively to CPE1. B is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b) so the BIER header is = popped. b' is forwarded to C and onto CPE2 Works just fine. Question: If the PHP is a "per node decision" how is A stopped from doing P= HP for b? Zzh> Please see above :-) Zzh> Thanks. Zzh> Jeffrey /Loa On 22/08/2020 05:20, Gyan Mishra wrote: > > I support advancing this critical draft forward. I agree that the PHP > feature traditionally used with MPLS and has been adopted by SR and > now by BIER for similar reasons of being able to pop the BIER header > similar to what is done with SR PHP concept and now extensible with > BIER for Non-BRF capable PE's. > > BIER IPv6 is still being developed, however I think maybe BIERin6 > could take advantage of PHP by popping the encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER > shim for "Non-BFR" capable PE. I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header > is encoded in DOH it may be difficult to support PHP. > > Thanks > > Gyan > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) > > wrote: > > Support moving this document forward. ____ > > __ __ > > *From: *BIER >> > on behalf of "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" > > > *Date: *Monday, August 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM > *To: *Greg Shepherd >> > *Cc: *"bier@ietf.org " > > *Subject: *Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php____ > > __ __ > > In support moving this draft forward, ____ > > __ __ > > Thx,____ > > __ __ > > Ice.____ > > Sent from my iPhone____ > > > > ____ > > On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:31, Greg Shepherd > wrote:____ > > > Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this > draft previously, but had no response. Let's do better. ____ > > __ __ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iet > f-bier-php/______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7Cnpq > vfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVq2FrBGNX$ > > __ __ > > Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..____ > > __ __ > > - Shep____ > > (Chairs)____ > Juniper Business Use Only > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > ______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLy > E8pK0PVq8rXWgdg$ > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK > 0PVq9z6N_yR$ > > > > -- > > s4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVqyDf-6DB$ > > > *Gyan Mishra* > > /Network Solutions A//rchitect / > > /M 301 502-1347 > 13101 Columbia Pike > /Silver Spring, MD > > > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK > 0PVq9z6N_yR$ > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ BIER mailing list BIER@ietf.org https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier__;!!= NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVq9z6N_y= R$ --_000_MN2PR05MB598179FDB227909DFB5FE3B6D4560MN2PR05MB5981namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Loa, Greg,

 

I’ve submitted -06 to take care of your commen= ts.

 

Thanks.

Jeffrey

 


Juniper Business= Use Only

From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> O= n Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 11:16 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gma= il.com>; Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ie= tf.org>
Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ie= tf.org>; Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>; bier@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi Loa,

 

Please see zzh> below.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.o= rg> On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 1:57 AM
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gm= ail.com>; Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>= ;
Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Greg Shep= herd <gjshep@gmail.com>; bier@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php

 

[External Email. Be cautious of content]<= /p>

 

 

Working Group,

 

I've had time to read the draft a bit more in detail= .

 

I'm convinced that this will work, and support progr= essing the draft.

 

I still think there are some minor description detai= ls that could be improved.

 

The draft says:

 

    One way to solve this problem is = to use Penultimate Hop Popping (PHP)

    so that the upstream BFR can pop = the BIER header and send the payload

    "natively" (note that t= he upstream BFR can be connected directly or

    indirectly via any type of tunnel= to the PE).  This is similar to

    Multi-Protocol Label Switching (M= PLS) PHP though it is the BIER

    header that is popped.=

 

This indicate that this is a "per node" de= cision, while in MPLS it is a per LSP decision.

 

Zzh> It’s a per node decision for all traff= ic to a particular “BFER” who does not really support BIER forw= arding. PHP is not used when the BFERs do support BIER.

 

I would think that it is possible for one node to be= the penultimate node for some traffic but not for other traffic, even thou= gh the traffic is sent to the same node, which can be both ultimate node, p= en-ultimate node or transit node.

 

=       +-------+      = ;        +-------+   &nbs= p;      +-------+

=       |       | = ;             |=        |      &= nbsp;   |       |=

= -a,b-+   A   +-----a',b-----+   B  = +----a'----+  CPE1 |

=       |       | = ;             |=        |      &= nbsp;   |       |=

=       +-------+      = ;        +---+---+   &nbs= p;      +-------+

=             &nb= sp;            =         |

=             &nb= sp;            =         b'

=             &nb= sp;            =         |

=             &nb= sp;            =     +---+---+        = ;  +-------+

=             &nb= sp;            =     |       |   = ;       |      = |

=             &nb= sp;            =     +   C   +----b'----+  CPE2 |

=             &nb= sp;            =     |       |   = ;       |      = |

=             &nb= sp;            =     +---+---+        = ;  +-------+

 

 

Two streams comes in to A from the left (a and b).

 

A is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE1 (a)= so the BIER header is popped.

 

A is not the  penultimate node for traffic to t= o CPE2 (b) so the BIER header is not popped.

 

Zzh> So the context is that B does support BIER. = In that case, A won’t do PHP for B at all.

 

Both a' and b is sent to B.

 

B forward a' natively to CPE1.

 

B is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b)= so the BIER header is popped.

 

b' is forwarded to C and onto CPE2

 

Works just fine.

 

Question: If the PHP is a "per node decision&qu= ot; how is A stopped from doing PHP for b?

 

Zzh> Please see above :-)

Zzh> Thanks.

Zzh> Jeffrey

 

/Loa

 

 

 

On 22/08/2020 05:20, Gyan Mishra wrote:

> 

> I support advancing this critical draft forward= .  I agree that the PHP

> feature traditionally used with MPLS and has be= en adopted by SR and

> now by BIER for similar reasons of being able t= o pop the BIER header

> similar to what is done with SR PHP concept and= now extensible with

> BIER for Non-BRF capable PE's.

> 

> BIER IPv6 is still being developed, however I t= hink maybe BIERin6

> could take advantage of  PHP by popping th= e encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER

> shim for "Non-BFR" capable PE.  = I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header

> is encoded in DOH it may be difficult to suppor= t PHP.

> 

> Thanks

> 

> Gyan

> 

> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM Mankamana Mishr= a (mankamis)

> <mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<= /o:p>

> 

>     Support moving this doc= ument forward. ____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     on behalf of "IJsb= rand Wijnands (iwijnand)"

>     <iwijnand=3D40cisco.= com@dmarc.ietf.org

>     *Date: *Monday, August = 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM

>     *To: *Greg Shepherd <= ;gjshep@gm= ail.com <mailto:gjshep@gmail.com>>

>     *Cc: *"bier@ietf.org <mailto= :bier@ietf.org>" <bier@ietf.org

>     <mailto:bier@ietf.org>>

>     *Subject: *Re: [Bier] W= GLC: draft-ietf-bier-php____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     In support moving this = draft forward, ____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     Thx,____

> 

>     __ __

> 

>     Ice.____

> 

>     Sent from my iPhone____=

> 

> 

> 

>     ____

> 

>        = On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:31, Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com

>        = <mailto:gjshep@gmail.com>>= ; wrote:____

> 

> 

>        = Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this<= /p>

>        = draft previously, but had no response. Let’s do better. ____

> 

>        = __ __

> 

>        =

> f-bier-php/______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaE= jyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7Cnpq

> vfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVq2FrBGNX$

> 

>        = __ __

> 

>        = Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..____

> 

>        = __ __

> 

>        = - Shep____

> 

>        = (Chairs)____

> Juniper= Business Use Only

 

>        = _______________________________________________

>        = BIER mailing list

>        = BIER@ietf.org <mailto:BIER@ietf.org>

>        =

> ______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcm= mmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLy

> E8pK0PVq8rXWgdg$

> 

>     _______________________= ________________________

>     BIER mailing list<= /o:p>

>    

> __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGg= DiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK

> 0PVq9z6N_yR$

> 

> 

> 

> --

> 

> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.veri= zon.com/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!W

> s4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JL= yE8pK0PVqyDf-6DB$ >

> 

> *Gyan Mishra*

> 

> /Network Solutions A//rchitect /

> 

> /M 301 502-1347

> 13101 Columbia Pike

> /Silver Spring, MD

> 

> 

> 

> _______________________________________________=

> BIER mailing list

> __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGg= DiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK

> 0PVq9z6N_yR$

> 

 

--

 

Loa Andersson      &nb= sp;            =      email: loa@pi.nu

Senior MPLS Expert     &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;       loa.pi.nu@gmail.com

Bronze Dragon Consulting    &nbs= p;        phone: +46 739 81 21 64

 

_______________________________________________=

BIER mailing list

 

--_000_MN2PR05MB598179FDB227909DFB5FE3B6D4560MN2PR05MB5981namp_-- From nobody Mon Aug 24 11:19:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81EEF3A09EB for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:19:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cyBgrD3bfmGW for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x132.google.com (mail-lf1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30B943A09FF for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x132.google.com with SMTP id x64so4052767lff.0 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:19:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=e525jCpzfis6+dEozhX0d2jV1LW7P0E4WZDs6EMr2Pc=; b=p6+Cj/axYGSugUMuAQRvVjq2nClo6Dv6PulWAOEgHTKnZfZnfsAbhMWDkpYzs0h96h MYjg3h9irE/1URLFaygLR6S1UTf9MbmbfkpS83RoACUCm0R+P5wTykU+P9ZkRVcNVWJs O1uG5pY7pCi3bJpTZkmndmtvtAl7NsRM/wanj87/O2OcDUtQz7kA7IQmcW4dqbhOZyY9 chmkYA3OjD8hgpdHoNi05cVJkwg1KGyBeGCJqy8iWJ5cHvd8WmurNASnciY8IdcLTrL1 LzuJHa+RcNDSVI0tZwtlyCwFhLWR17qFcwvESBXfT6FjiKHKQIgtu+LrfteNknf1TTnG muNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e525jCpzfis6+dEozhX0d2jV1LW7P0E4WZDs6EMr2Pc=; b=gxbHs1uY4QKJ8FmrWNudWOd1yGTspKXUTmucmklvRxMIckNSmSz+pRrpJeZODb0G8u 2S/+vg6yJ0KXLzHG6ectvNvz9ZhsSYaK/I2x9RPgyWM5yU1IW9ID0IfF/nlwhBXP2/EN TCyNvmsnfb5l5XmchdRGSQ1mKQrkVu1bZpwhVF4+89BM/ttuGYEIOS8vHBAw6M5hEVpY p5814P+R6PcG+vfD63RXoW05GXi0EWGC4pM6nEa9jPjiSM2R2tvds6lo81e1ZFCdtn1O hBceAGBDUE7xKUo6x10bRY2hjTBKxpI0qvdTV6xFWE6krkVQ2Tfmj2udHE0SXJK0XWah H51g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530jexpSeTVy3gU55lfDo3Pnzrgrsg9usr15uElGutUzhGBtpHXS 3kNuztvKEO30uxb/ZI03pPylm+2Jc2sGpg4PMys= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxW4FicasilWZj1nJ66y2AsR9QLmpq9oFryYP/GxZjA3GON0+v9xuiXlIDp1oBHMiaIfmEGR/WV9ewbWCs/Lt0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:314a:: with SMTP id s10mr2952188lfi.123.1598293173087; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:19:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> <9300613D-A740-476E-BC8F-3B0D25C8E883@cisco.com> <223C9348-563A-43DC-B9E3-DE978CA7FA68@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:19:21 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" Cc: Loa Andersson , "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d4311805ada3a0a4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 18:19:46 -0000 --000000000000d4311805ada3a0a4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeffrey, thank you for your kind consideration of my comments and addressing them. Regards, Greg On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 10:50 AM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote: > Hi Loa, Greg, > > > > I=E2=80=99ve submitted -06 to take care of your comments. > > > > Thanks. > > Jeffrey > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > *From:* BIER *On Behalf Of * Jeffrey (Zhaohui) > Zhang > *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2020 11:16 AM > *To:* Loa Andersson ; Gyan Mishra ; > Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) > *Cc:* IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) ; > Greg Shepherd ; bier@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php > > > > *[External Email. Be cautious of content]* > > > > Hi Loa, > > > > Please see zzh> below. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BIER On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 1:57 AM > To: Gyan Mishra ; Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) < > mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) ; > Greg Shepherd ; bier@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php > > > > [External Email. Be cautious of content] > > > > > > Working Group, > > > > I've had time to read the draft a bit more in detail. > > > > I'm convinced that this will work, and support progressing the draft. > > > > I still think there are some minor description details that could be > improved. > > > > The draft says: > > > > One way to solve this problem is to use Penultimate Hop Popping (PHP) > > so that the upstream BFR can pop the BIER header and send the payload > > "natively" (note that the upstream BFR can be connected directly or > > indirectly via any type of tunnel to the PE). This is similar to > > Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) PHP though it is the BIER > > header that is popped. > > > > This indicate that this is a "per node" decision, while in MPLS it is a > per LSP decision. > > > > Zzh> It=E2=80=99s a per node decision for all traffic to a particular =E2= =80=9CBFER=E2=80=9D who > does not really support BIER forwarding. PHP is not used when the BFERs d= o > support BIER. > > > > I would think that it is possible for one node to be the penultimate node > for some traffic but not for other traffic, even though the traffic is se= nt > to the same node, which can be both ultimate node, pen-ultimate node or > transit node. > > > > +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ > > | | | | | | > > -a,b-+ A +-----a',b-----+ B +----a'----+ CPE1 | > > | | | | | | > > +-------+ +---+---+ +-------+ > > | > > b' > > | > > +---+---+ +-------+ > > | | | | > > + C +----b'----+ CPE2 | > > | | | | > > +---+---+ +-------+ > > > > > > Two streams comes in to A from the left (a and b). > > > > A is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE1 (a) so the BIER header i= s > popped. > > > > A is not the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b) so the BIER > header is not popped. > > > > Zzh> So the context is that B does support BIER. In that case, A won=E2= =80=99t do > PHP for B at all. > > > > Both a' and b is sent to B. > > > > B forward a' natively to CPE1. > > > > B is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b) so the BIER header i= s > popped. > > > > b' is forwarded to C and onto CPE2 > > > > Works just fine. > > > > Question: If the PHP is a "per node decision" how is A stopped from doing > PHP for b? > > > > Zzh> Please see above :-) > > Zzh> Thanks. > > Zzh> Jeffrey > > > > /Loa > > > > > > > > On 22/08/2020 05:20, Gyan Mishra wrote: > > > > > > I support advancing this critical draft forward. I agree that the PHP > > > feature traditionally used with MPLS and has been adopted by SR and > > > now by BIER for similar reasons of being able to pop the BIER header > > > similar to what is done with SR PHP concept and now extensible with > > > BIER for Non-BRF capable PE's. > > > > > > BIER IPv6 is still being developed, however I think maybe BIERin6 > > > could take advantage of PHP by popping the encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER > > > shim for "Non-BFR" capable PE. I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header > > > is encoded in DOH it may be difficult to support PHP. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Gyan > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) > > > > > >> wrote= : > > > > > > Support moving this document forward. ____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > *From: *BIER > > > > on behalf of "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" > > > > > >> > > > *Date: *Monday, August 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM > > > *To: *Greg Shepherd > > > > *Cc: *"bier@ietf.org " > > >> > > > *Subject: *Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > In support moving this draft forward, ____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > Thx,____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > Ice.____ > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone____ > > > > > > > > > > > > ____ > > > > > > On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:31, Greg Shepherd > > >> wrote:____ > > > > > > > > > Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this > > > draft previously, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better.= ____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iet > > > > f-bier-php/______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7Cnpq > > > vfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVq2FrBGNX$ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > - Shep____ > > > > > > (Chairs)____ > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BIER mailing list > > > BIER@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > ______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLy > > > E8pK0PVq8rXWgdg$ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BIER mailing list > > > BIER@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK > > > 0PVq9z6N_yR$ > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > s4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVqyDf-6DB$ > > > > > > > *Gyan Mishra* > > > > > > /Network Solutions A//rchitect / > > > > > > /M 301 502-1347 > > > 13101 Columbia Pike > > > /Silver Spring, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BIER mailing list > > > BIER@ietf.org > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK > > > 0PVq9z6N_yR$ > > > > > > > -- > > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu > > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com > > Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier__;= !!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVq9z6N= _yR$ > > > > --000000000000d4311805ada3a0a4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jeffrey,
thank you for your kind consideration=C2= =A0of my comments and addressing them.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 10:50 AM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang = <zzhang@juniper.net> wrote:=

Hi Loa, Greg,

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99ve submitted -06 to take care of your comm= ents.

=C2=A0

Thanks.

Jeffrey

=C2=A0


Juniper Business Use Only

From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of = Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 11:16 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Mankamana Mishra (mankam= is) <mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&= gt;; Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>; bier@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php

=C2=A0

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

=C2=A0

Hi Loa,

=C2=A0

Please see zzh> below.

=C2=A0

-----Original Message-----
From: BIER <b= ier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 1:57 AM
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankami= s=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<= /a>>; Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>; bier@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php

=C2=A0

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Working Group,

=C2=A0

I've had time to read the draft a bit more in de= tail.

=C2=A0

I'm convinced that this will work, and support p= rogressing the draft.

=C2=A0

I still think there are some minor description detai= ls that could be improved.

=C2=A0

The draft says:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 One way to solve this problem is = to use Penultimate Hop Popping (PHP)

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 so that the upstream BFR can pop = the BIER header and send the payload

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "natively" (note that t= he upstream BFR can be connected directly or

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 indirectly via any type of tunnel= to the PE).=C2=A0 This is similar to

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Multi-Protocol Label Switching (M= PLS) PHP though it is the BIER

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 header that is popped.<= /u>

=C2=A0

This indicate that this is a "per node" de= cision, while in MPLS it is a per LSP decision.

=C2=A0

Zzh> It=E2=80=99s a per node decision for all tra= ffic to a particular =E2=80=9CBFER=E2=80=9D who does not really support BIE= R forwarding. PHP is not used when the BFERs do support BIER.=

=C2=A0

I would think that it is possible for one node to be= the penultimate node for some traffic but not for other traffic, even thou= gh the traffic is sent to the same node, which can be both ultimate node, p= en-ultimate node or transit node.

=C2=A0

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=

= -a,b-+=C2=A0=C2=A0 A=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-----a',b-----+=C2=A0=C2=A0 B=C2=A0= =C2=A0 +----a'----+=C2=A0 CPE1 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 b'

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 +-------+

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +=C2=A0=C2=A0 C=C2=A0=C2=A0 +----b'----+=C2=A0 CPE2 = |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 +-------+

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Two streams comes in to A from the left (a and b).

=C2=A0

A is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE1 (a)= so the BIER header is popped.

=C2=A0

A is not the=C2=A0 penultimate node for traffic to t= o CPE2 (b) so the BIER header is not popped.

=C2=A0

Zzh> So the context is that B does support BIER. = In that case, A won=E2=80=99t do PHP for B at all.

=C2=A0

Both a' and b is sent to B.

=C2=A0

B forward a' natively to CPE1.

=C2=A0

B is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b)= so the BIER header is popped.

=C2=A0

b' is forwarded to C and onto CPE2=

=C2=A0

Works just fine.

=C2=A0

Question: If the PHP is a "per node decision&qu= ot; how is A stopped from doing PHP for b?

=C2=A0

Zzh> Please see above :-)

Zzh> Thanks.

Zzh> Jeffrey

=C2=A0

/Loa

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On 22/08/2020 05:20, Gyan Mishra wrote:

>=C2=A0

> I support advancing this critical draft forward= .=C2=A0 I agree that the PHP

> feature traditionally used with MPLS and has be= en adopted by SR and

> now by BIER for similar reasons of being able t= o pop the BIER header

> similar to what is done with SR PHP concept and= now extensible with

> BIER for Non-BRF capable PE's.

>=C2=A0

> BIER IPv6 is still being developed, however I t= hink maybe BIERin6

> could take advantage of=C2=A0 PHP by popping th= e encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER

> shim for "Non-BFR" capable PE.=C2=A0 = I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header

> is encoded in DOH it may be difficult to suppor= t PHP.

>=C2=A0

> Thanks

>=C2=A0

> Gyan

>=C2=A0

> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM Mankamana Mishr= a (mankamis)

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Support moving this doc= ument forward. ____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *From: *BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>&= gt;

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 on behalf of "IJsb= rand Wijnands (iwijnand)"

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.= ietf.org

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.= org>>

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Date: *Monday, August = 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *To: *Greg Shepherd <= ;gjshep@gmail.com <mailto:gjshep@gmail.com>>=

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Cc: *"bier@i= etf.org <mailto:bier@ietf.org>" <bier@ietf.org

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:bier@ietf.org>><= /u>

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Subject: *Re: [Bier] W= GLC: draft-ietf-bier-php____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In support moving this = draft forward, ____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thx,____<= /p>

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ice.____<= /p>

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sent from my iPhone____=

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:31, Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= <mailto:gjshep@gm= ail.com>> wrote:____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= draft previously, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better. ____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=

> f-bier-php/______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaE= jyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7Cnpq

> vfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVq2FrBGNX$

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= - Shep____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= (Chairs)____

> Juniper Business Use Only

=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= _______________________________________________

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= BIER mailing list

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= BIER@ietf.org <<= a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:BIER@ietf.org&= gt;

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=

> ______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcm= mmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLy

> E8pK0PVq8rXWgdg$

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 _______________________= ________________________

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 BIER mailing list

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 BIER@ietf.org <mailto:BIER@ietf.org>

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

> __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGg= DiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK

> 0PVq9z6N_yR$

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

> --

>=C2=A0

> s4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JL= yE8pK0PVqyDf-6DB$ >

>=C2=A0

> *Gyan Mishra*

>=C2=A0

> /Network Solutions A//rchitect /<= /p>

>=C2=A0

> /M 301 502-1347

> 13101 Columbia Pike

> /Silver Spring, MD

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

> _______________________________________________=

> BIER mailing list

> __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGg= DiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK

> 0PVq9z6N_yR$

>=C2=A0

=C2=A0

--

=C2=A0

Loa Andersson=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 email: loa@pi.nu

Senior MPLS Expert=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 loa.pi.nu@gmail.com

Bronze Dragon Consulting=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 phone: +46 739 81 21 64

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________

BIER mailing list

=C2=A0

--000000000000d4311805ada3a0a4-- From nobody Mon Aug 24 12:06:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3FA73A09A3 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:06:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pqIm27Lostij for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ed1-x52c.google.com (mail-ed1-x52c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C84D3A0994 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id l23so9053413edv.11 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:06:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=h52z68uoR6RwQDfDjUSuYG/eZ3DWKECSCNTpw4SvVEk=; b=NC+R+KLBJ8nIdMvojQip2h3rH2FCS+RhFYcGiedQXC0bg1TYeBDOBpvjh43eXuh6Yy T/Wv6on2vtYOw2TP1IaweFzH+qMF5PFUBtRvQ+WKXpB95tWlCNyZKbL3vewUOyeE0S4z anCk/8b6kmCJtt+/RVayeOW+1o47PPrmoDSHZVMf5b8Gccv+0Xx3dgYkW+vq7hvPtHf9 q/E24uiaUKN6OGly4+AMvIWN5QRdO/j4lE1EHymo4FXvz6tqEQcWMXQQtAZQIcuWsE00 NobRWVmLD/BSrMkka/Zmm9GJafLp7GNB9mfDs8pAfEuQIyaehsisyxKk54HkZBne2cFZ I6ow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=h52z68uoR6RwQDfDjUSuYG/eZ3DWKECSCNTpw4SvVEk=; b=ZlmVuTFOGDK+tXC9RswE7wTPmBVdAcUewP+280MjrANDqKHY1O8hDua+S36IOqc335 L3SIt+RW4HF98VGXAC+45cqfR5Gu//J9wUcm1pwdDj1Vm+kMhZyT1JPWZcLz63DNMo7g z4ToxG0UDErMyvpRPq8wLNzBBRj+T10RYZGiolseIS8TAfBOWzWpHC+lxpa3nZbCr47U D9hR+YWh5GaVpru6dbf0I0CsqLFvh7vtQCj2xnxQOLA/403egsbq/jbundXM8I8hxtyH jmUuGEU7ydddlp+ZfcJDTda52sTfm3QgbSr9fDCJEUnWnyZLgBwgiwB25T43IIe0Nt/x J2Ag== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53301Pv1xKee+QtJ1QIMG6nh1VNCsCylrzM15TjfVY948LfQqnHH 4ihx1EW/2umXOxvRaZjuAtRSwRXmpUQQGYG3KuiUp8D6P4A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwzZSJEj3wEqOGezWj4UtOL/wjPyvWJARdlekHzPd67UgVnEQolGv7KpI8W+pCvZSsWwBtc6uCj+DppEsxFRT8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:17c2:: with SMTP id s2mr6667192edy.188.1598295990360; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:06:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> <9300613D-A740-476E-BC8F-3B0D25C8E883@cisco.com> <223C9348-563A-43DC-B9E3-DE978CA7FA68@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com From: Greg Shepherd Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:06:21 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" Cc: Loa Andersson , Greg Mirsky , "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c05f2d05ada44868" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 19:06:35 -0000 --000000000000c05f2d05ada44868 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jeffrey and Greg. Loa, please confirm when you can that this rev addresses your concerns. Shep (chairs) On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 10:50 AM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote: > Hi Loa, Greg, > > > > I=E2=80=99ve submitted -06 to take care of your comments. > > > > Thanks. > > Jeffrey > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > *From:* BIER *On Behalf Of * Jeffrey (Zhaohui) > Zhang > *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2020 11:16 AM > *To:* Loa Andersson ; Gyan Mishra ; > Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) > *Cc:* IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) ; > Greg Shepherd ; bier@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php > > > > *[External Email. Be cautious of content]* > > > > Hi Loa, > > > > Please see zzh> below. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BIER On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 1:57 AM > To: Gyan Mishra ; Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) < > mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) ; > Greg Shepherd ; bier@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php > > > > [External Email. Be cautious of content] > > > > > > Working Group, > > > > I've had time to read the draft a bit more in detail.. > > > > I'm convinced that this will work, and support progressing the draft. > > > > I still think there are some minor description details that could be > improved. > > > > The draft says: > > > > One way to solve this problem is to use Penultimate Hop Popping (PHP) > > so that the upstream BFR can pop the BIER header and send the payload > > "natively" (note that the upstream BFR can be connected directly or > > indirectly via any type of tunnel to the PE). This is similar to > > Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) PHP though it is the BIER > > header that is popped. > > > > This indicate that this is a "per node" decision, while in MPLS it is a > per LSP decision. > > > > Zzh> It=E2=80=99s a per node decision for all traffic to a particular =E2= =80=9CBFER=E2=80=9D who > does not really support BIER forwarding. PHP is not used when the BFERs d= o > support BIER. > > > > I would think that it is possible for one node to be the penultimate node > for some traffic but not for other traffic, even though the traffic is se= nt > to the same node, which can be both ultimate node, pen-ultimate node or > transit node. > > > > +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ > > | | | | | | > > -a,b-+ A +-----a',b-----+ B +----a'----+ CPE1 | > > | | | | | | > > +-------+ +---+---+ +-------+ > > | > > b' > > | > > +---+---+ +-------+ > > | | | | > > + C +----b'----+ CPE2 | > > | | | | > > +---+---+ +-------+ > > > > > > Two streams comes in to A from the left (a and b). > > > > A is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE1 (a) so the BIER header i= s > popped. > > > > A is not the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b) so the BIER > header is not popped. > > > > Zzh> So the context is that B does support BIER. In that case, A won=E2= =80=99t do > PHP for B at all. > > > > Both a' and b is sent to B. > > > > B forward a' natively to CPE1. > > > > B is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b) so the BIER header i= s > popped. > > > > b' is forwarded to C and onto CPE2 > > > > Works just fine. > > > > Question: If the PHP is a "per node decision" how is A stopped from doing > PHP for b? > > > > Zzh> Please see above :-) > > Zzh> Thanks. > > Zzh> Jeffrey > > > > /Loa > > > > > > > > On 22/08/2020 05:20, Gyan Mishra wrote: > > > > > > I support advancing this critical draft forward.. I agree that the PHP > > > feature traditionally used with MPLS and has been adopted by SR and > > > now by BIER for similar reasons of being able to pop the BIER header > > > similar to what is done with SR PHP concept and now extensible with > > > BIER for Non-BRF capable PE's. > > > > > > BIER IPv6 is still being developed, however I think maybe BIERin6 > > > could take advantage of PHP by popping the encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER > > > shim for "Non-BFR" capable PE. I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header > > > is encoded in DOH it may be difficult to support PHP. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Gyan > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) > > > > > >> wrote= : > > > > > > Support moving this document forward. ____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > *From: *BIER > > > > on behalf of "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" > > > > > >> > > > *Date: *Monday, August 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM > > > *To: *Greg Shepherd > > > > *Cc: *"bier@ietf.org " > > >> > > > *Subject: *Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > In support moving this draft forward, ____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > Thx,____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > Ice.____ > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone____ > > > > > > > > > > > > ____ > > > > > > On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:31, Greg Shepherd > > >> wrote:____ > > > > > > > > > Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this > > > draft previously, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better.= ____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iet > > > > f-bier-php/______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7Cnpq > > > vfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVq2FrBGNX$ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > - Shep____ > > > > > > (Chairs)____ > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BIER mailing list > > > BIER@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > ______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLy > > > E8pK0PVq8rXWgdg$ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BIER mailing list > > > BIER@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK > > > 0PVq9z6N_yR$ > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > s4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVqyDf-6DB$ > > > > > > > *Gyan Mishra* > > > > > > /Network Solutions A//rchitect / > > > > > > /M 301 502-1347 > > > 13101 Columbia Pike > > > /Silver Spring, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BIER mailing list > > > BIER@ietf.org > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK > > > 0PVq9z6N_yR$ > > > > > > > -- > > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu > > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com > > > Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier__;= !!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVq9z6N= _yR$ > > > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > --000000000000c05f2d05ada44868 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Jeffrey and Greg. Loa, please confirm when you can = that this rev addresses your concerns.

Shep
(c= hairs)

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 10:50 AM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zz= hang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.= ietf.org> wrote:

Hi Loa, Greg,

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99ve submitted -06 to take care of your comm= ents.

=C2=A0

Thanks.

Jeffrey

=C2=A0


Juniper Business Use Only

From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of = Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 11:16 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Mankamana Mishra (mankam= is) <mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&= gt;; Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>; bier@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php

=C2=A0

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

=C2=A0

Hi Loa,

=C2=A0

Please see zzh> below.

=C2=A0

-----Original Message-----
From: BIER <b= ier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 1:57 AM
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankami= s=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<= /a>>; Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>; bier@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php

=C2=A0

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Working Group,

=C2=A0

I've had time to read the draft a bit more in de= tail..

=C2=A0

I'm convinced that this will work, and support p= rogressing the draft.

=C2=A0

I still think there are some minor description detai= ls that could be improved.

=C2=A0

The draft says:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 One way to solve this problem is = to use Penultimate Hop Popping (PHP)

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 so that the upstream BFR can pop = the BIER header and send the payload

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "natively" (note that t= he upstream BFR can be connected directly or

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 indirectly via any type of tunnel= to the PE).=C2=A0 This is similar to

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Multi-Protocol Label Switching (M= PLS) PHP though it is the BIER

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 header that is popped.<= /u>

=C2=A0

This indicate that this is a "per node" de= cision, while in MPLS it is a per LSP decision.

=C2=A0

Zzh> It=E2=80=99s a per node decision for all tra= ffic to a particular =E2=80=9CBFER=E2=80=9D who does not really support BIE= R forwarding. PHP is not used when the BFERs do support BIER.=

=C2=A0

I would think that it is possible for one node to be= the penultimate node for some traffic but not for other traffic, even thou= gh the traffic is sent to the same node, which can be both ultimate node, p= en-ultimate node or transit node.

=C2=A0

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=

= -a,b-+=C2=A0=C2=A0 A=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-----a',b-----+=C2=A0=C2=A0 B=C2=A0= =C2=A0 +----a'----+=C2=A0 CPE1 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 b'

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 +-------+

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +=C2=A0=C2=A0 C=C2=A0=C2=A0 +----b'----+=C2=A0 CPE2 = |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 +-------+

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Two streams comes in to A from the left (a and b).

=C2=A0

A is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE1 (a)= so the BIER header is popped.

=C2=A0

A is not the=C2=A0 penultimate node for traffic to t= o CPE2 (b) so the BIER header is not popped.

=C2=A0

Zzh> So the context is that B does support BIER. = In that case, A won=E2=80=99t do PHP for B at all.

=C2=A0

Both a' and b is sent to B.

=C2=A0

B forward a' natively to CPE1.

=C2=A0

B is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b)= so the BIER header is popped.

=C2=A0

b' is forwarded to C and onto CPE2=

=C2=A0

Works just fine.

=C2=A0

Question: If the PHP is a "per node decision&qu= ot; how is A stopped from doing PHP for b?

=C2=A0

Zzh> Please see above :-)

Zzh> Thanks.

Zzh> Jeffrey

=C2=A0

/Loa

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On 22/08/2020 05:20, Gyan Mishra wrote:

>=C2=A0

> I support advancing this critical draft forward= ..=C2=A0 I agree that the PHP

> feature traditionally used with MPLS and has be= en adopted by SR and

> now by BIER for similar reasons of being able t= o pop the BIER header

> similar to what is done with SR PHP concept and= now extensible with

> BIER for Non-BRF capable PE's.

>=C2=A0

> BIER IPv6 is still being developed, however I t= hink maybe BIERin6

> could take advantage of=C2=A0 PHP by popping th= e encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER

> shim for "Non-BFR" capable PE.=C2=A0 = I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header

> is encoded in DOH it may be difficult to suppor= t PHP.

>=C2=A0

> Thanks

>=C2=A0

> Gyan

>=C2=A0

> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM Mankamana Mishr= a (mankamis)

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Support moving this doc= ument forward. ____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *From: *BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>&= gt;

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 on behalf of "IJsb= rand Wijnands (iwijnand)"

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.= ietf.org

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.= org>>

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Date: *Monday, August = 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *To: *Greg Shepherd <= ;gjshep@gmail.com <mailto:gjshep@gmail.com>>=

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Cc: *"bier@i= etf.org <mailto:bier@ietf.org>" <bier@ietf.org

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:bier@ietf.org>><= /u>

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Subject: *Re: [Bier] W= GLC: draft-ietf-bier-php____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In support moving this = draft forward, ____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thx,____<= /p>

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ice.____<= /p>

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sent from my iPhone____=

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:31, Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= <mailto:gjshep@gm= ail.com>> wrote:____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= draft previously, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better. ____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=

> f-bier-php/______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaE= jyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7Cnpq

> vfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVq2FrBGNX$

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= - Shep____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= (Chairs)____

> Juniper Business Use Only

=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= _______________________________________________

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Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QnYI2XSwtKpl for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 20:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua1-x944.google.com (mail-ua1-x944.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::944]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BBD73A0C0D for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 20:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua1-x944.google.com with SMTP id d20so115951ual.13 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 20:12:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FUPoiwcrvw2YJRrL0vz6kjkJYGDFS5Q7C1EfXpxNLU0=; b=Ll8TwwbuVoDILnepo23wgO/QZKAFaenVupWItJEKT0P7RLeYT+aPEkO70ESIj6LBGr 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X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx3CeCqjHsOjzYjYzg8a5bRoN9hLS46+5xYEBoCxMnY8ISpv2RIIzmRGoiOYXIrHKbtsnGGG7/183k+NDU/WhY= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:2704:: with SMTP id s4mr7152074uao.141.1598411570115; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 20:12:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> <9300613D-A740-476E-BC8F-3B0D25C8E883@cisco.com> <223C9348-563A-43DC-B9E3-DE978CA7FA68@cisco.com> <69124cd19b994ec39bc71900054b298f@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <69124cd19b994ec39bc71900054b298f@huawei.com> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 23:12:38 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Xiejingrong (Jingrong)" Cc: Greg Shepherd , "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" , "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" , "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="000000000000d7dde705adbf311f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 03:12:54 -0000 --000000000000d7dde705adbf311f Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d7dde605adbf311e" --000000000000d7dde605adbf311e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jingrong for the graphical depiction of BIERv6 PSP and how it would work. The pop/delete in MPLS or SR-MPLS construct with MPLS-BIER we have the BIER L2.5 shim to be popped so BIERin6 pop is similar to MPLS PHP as we have a L2.5 shim to be popped similar to MPLS shim. With BIERv6 native encoding in DOH was not sure how it would be popped. Looking at it further the SRv6 construct its PSP POP/Delete very similar to SRV6 SRH PSP pop. Makes sense DOH PSP is similar to SRH PSP. Yes I remember all the many threads on 6MAN and in flight eh insertion or removal violation of RFC 8200 contentious debate. I agree that PSP would be beneficial for supporting Non BFR capable PEs and agree with the behavior makes sense that the entire DOH would get popped removed. Thanks Gyan On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 3:30 AM Xiejingrong (Jingrong) < xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Gyan, > > > > > > Thanks for raising the PHP consideration in v6. > > > > > > There is a thorough discussion in IETF community, especially 6man, about > Penultimate Segment Pop (PSP) ---- to Pop an EH when an IPv6 packet with > > EH reaches the node identified in the destination address [RFC8200 sectio= n > 4]. > > > This thorough discussion has led to a wide consensus among IETF community= , > and led to the progress of draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-17 > > to IETF last call. > > > > > > So for BIERv6, I think the PSP can be very well supported to provide > incremental deployment for Non-BIER-capable PEs. > > > > > > > Note, the whole DoH (not only the BIER option data) is popped/deleted whe= n > the BIERv6 packet is sent to the ultimate PE. Here is a diagram: > > > > > > CE1----A----B----C----D----CE2 > > > > > > A is BFIR, D is Non-BFR router but acting as a BFER requesting PSP > (signaling defined in draft-ietf-bier-php), and both B and C are BFRs > (could be > > BFERs at the same time). > > > > > > Packet from A to B: (IPv6 SA=3DA, DA=3DB) (DoH carrying BIER) (c-multicas= t > packet). > > > Packet from B to C: (IPv6 SA=3DA, DA=3DC) (DoH carrying BIER) (c-multicas= t > packet). > > > Packet from C to D: (IPv6 SA=3DA, DA=3DD) (c-multicast packet). > > > > > > > Thanks > > > Jingrong > > > > > > *From:* BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] > > *On Behalf Of *Gyan Mishra > > > *Sent:* Saturday, August 22, 2020 5:21 AM > > > *To:* Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) > > > *Cc:* IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) ; > Greg Shepherd ; bier@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php > > > > > > > > > > > > > I support advancing this critical draft forward. I agree that the PHP > feature traditionally used with MPLS and has been adopted by SR and now b= y > BIER for similar reasons of being able to pop the BIER header similar to > > what is done with SR PHP concept and now extensible with BIER for Non-BRF > capable PE's. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BIER IPv6 is still being developed, however I think maybe BIERin6 could > take advantage of PHP by popping the encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER shim for > "Non-BFR" capable PE. I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header is encoded i= n > > DOH it may be difficult to support PHP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Support moving this document forward. > > > > > > > > > > > *From:*BIER on behalf of "IJsbrand Wijnands > (iwijnand)" > > > *Date: *Monday, August 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM > > > *To: *Greg Shepherd > > > *Cc: *"bier@ietf.org" > > > *Subject: *Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php > > > > > > > > > > > > In support moving this draft forward, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thx, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ice. > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:31, Greg Shepherd wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this draft > previously, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Shep > > > > > > > (Chairs) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BIER mailing list > > > BIER@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BIER mailing list > > > BIER@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [image: =E5=9B=BE=E5=83=8F=E5=B7=B2=E8=A2=AB=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA= =E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E3=80=82] > > > *Gyan Mishra* > > > *Network Solutions Architect * > > > > > > > > > *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike > *Silver > Spring, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --000000000000d7dde605adbf311e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Jingrong for the graphical depictio= n of BIERv6 PSP and how it would work.=C2=A0

The pop/delete in MPLS or SR-MPLS construct with MPLS-= BIER we have the BIER =C2=A0L2.5 shim to be popped so BIERin6 pop is simila= r to MPLS PHP as we have a L2.5 shim to be popped similar to MPLS shim.

With BIERv6 native encoding= in DOH was not sure how it would be popped. Looking at it further the SRv6= construct its PSP POP/Delete very similar to SRV6 SRH PSP pop.=C2=A0 Makes= sense DOH PSP is similar to SRH PSP.

Yes I remember all the many threads on 6MAN and in flight eh = insertion or removal violation of RFC 8200 contentious debate.=C2=A0
<= div dir=3D"auto">
I agree that PSP would be bene= ficial for supporting Non BFR capable PEs and agree with the behavior makes= sense that the entire DOH would get popped removed. =C2=A0

Thanks=C2=A0
<= br>
Gyan

On Mon, Aug 24,= 2020 at 3:30 AM Xiejingrong (Jingrong) <xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote:
















Hi Gyan,



=C2=A0



Thanks for raising the PHP consid= eration in v6.



=C2=A0



There is a thorough discussion in= IETF community, especially 6man,=C2=A0 about Penultimate Segment Pop (PSP)= ---- to Pop an EH when an IPv6 packet with

EH reaches the node ide= ntified in the destination address [RFC8200 section 4].



This thor= ough discussion has led to a wide consensus among IETF community, and led t= o the progress of draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-17

to = IETF last call.



=C2=A0



So for BIERv6, I think the PSP= can be very well supported to provide incremental deployment for Non-BIER-= capable PEs.



=C2=A0



Note, the whole DoH (not on= ly the BIER option data) is popped/deleted when the BIERv6 packet is sent t= o the ultimate PE. Here is a diagram:



=C2=A0=



CE1----A--= --B----C----D----CE2



=C2=A0



A is BFIR, D is Non-BFR rou= ter but acting as a BFER requesting PSP (signaling defined in draft-ietf-bi= er-php), and both B and C are BFRs (could be

BFERs at the same time= ).



=C2=A0



= Packet from A to B: (IPv6 SA=3DA, DA=3DB) (Do= H carrying BIER) (c-multicast packet).



Packet from B to C: (IPv6 = SA=3DA, DA=3DC) (DoH carrying BIER) (c-multicast packet).



Packet = from C to D: (IPv6 SA=3DA, DA=3DD) (c-multicast packet).

<= /u>



= =C2=A0



Thanks



Jingrong



=C2=A0



From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org]

On Behalf Of Gyan Mishra


Sent: Saturday= , August 22, 2020 5:21 AM


To: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)= <mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>


Cc: IJsbrand Wijn= ands (iwijnand) <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Greg Shepherd <<= a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com&g= t;; bier@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php=



=C2= =A0





=C2=A0





I support advancing this critical draft for= ward.=C2=A0 I agree that the PHP feature traditionally used with MPLS and h= as been adopted by SR and now by BIER for similar reasons of being able to = pop the BIER header similar to

what is done with SR PHP concept and= now extensible with BIER for Non-BRF capable PE's.=C2=A0=







=C2=A0






BIER IPv6 is still being = developed, however I think maybe BIERin6 could take advantage of=C2=A0 PHP = by popping the encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER shim for "Non-BFR" capabl= e PE.=C2=A0 I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header is encoded in

DOH= it may be difficult to support PHP.



=



=C2= =A0







Thanks




<= br>


=C2=A0







<= span lang=3D"EN-US">Gyan







=C2=A0<= /span>







On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) &l= t;mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:






=




Suppo= rt moving this document forward.



=C2=A0




From:

BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijn= and)" <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>


Date: M= onday, August 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM


To: Greg Shepherd <= gjshep@gmail.com&= gt;


Cc: "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>


Subject: Re: [Bier] WGL= C: draft-ietf-bier-php

=





=C2=A0





In support moving this draft forward,

<= /u>





=C2=A0






Thx,

=





=C2=A0







Ice.<= u>





Sent from my iPhone






=C2=A0





On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:31,= Greg Shepherd <gj= shep@gmail.com> wrote:



=








=

Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this draf= t previously, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better.=C2=A0





=C2=A0






=

https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/







=C2=A0<= u>







Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..=







=C2=A0




=


- Shep<= u>







= (Chairs)




______________________________= _________________


BIER mailing list


BIER@ietf.org


https://www.ie= tf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier




=








_______________________________________= ________


BIER mailing list


BIER@ietf.org


https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/bier













=C2=A0




=

--



















3D"=E5=9B=BE=E5=83=8F=E5=B7=B2=E8=A2=AB=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=

<= /div>
<= div class=3D"m_1070706832568798239WordSection1">


= Gyan Mishra



Network Solutions Ar= chitect=C2=A0



M 301 502-1347


13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0


Sil= ver Spring, MD






<= br>

=C2=A0<= /p>























--
=


Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

M 301 5= 02-1347
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0
Silver Spring, MD


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Wed, 26 Aug 2020 11:17:20 +0000 From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" To: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" , Greg Shepherd , "bier@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php Thread-Index: AQHWcSIyKr0dgAB8QECWZeOo5tdQgqlJrEGAgACi0oA= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 11:17:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> <55E0BD27-F7F1-4D20-ACA2-5D2E4BB80D8B@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <55E0BD27-F7F1-4D20-ACA2-5D2E4BB80D8B@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-08-26T11:17:16Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=28ea0309-f562-40e6-964d-0089adce3a6b; 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boundary="_000_MN2PR05MB59818AF76B31E894EC3C2B71D4540MN2PR05MB5981namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR05MB5981.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 71f4f30d-cf07-4d5b-02be-08d849b19940 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Aug 2020 11:17:20.0973 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: iP52AY+/sReR1kVxJmviZktVHHiAlNN/Gm1iXMe9TccH9mkxZ35OPT/zBPX5ynBjUxCx6ETae9ypxvb2hCcLKA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR05MB7188 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.687 definitions=2020-08-26_08:2020-08-26, 2020-08-26 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008260090 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 11:17:26 -0000 --_000_MN2PR05MB59818AF76B31E894EC3C2B71D4540MN2PR05MB5981namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Nagendra, Thanks for your comments. Please see zzh> below. Juniper Business Use Only From: BIER On Behalf Of Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naik= umar) Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 9:22 PM To: Greg Shepherd ; bier@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi, Support. Few comments below: =3D=3D> The below text appears to give an impression that the router is BIE= R incapable at both control plane and data plane. This either can be clarif= ied or can include a terminology explaining what it is. "A BIER-incapable router, if acting as a multicast flow overlay router, MUST signal its BIER information as specified in [RFC8401] or [RFC8444] or [I-D.ietf-bier-idr-extensions]" Zzh> How about adding the following paragraph after the above paragraph? This implies that while the router is not capable of BIER forwarding, It is capable of BIER control plane signaling. =3D=3D> Section 2.1.1.1 of RFC8296 states that PHP MUST NOT be applied to B= IER-MPLS-Label. While the below statement mandates the signaling of Imp-Nul= l (which is to enable PHP). So I think the draft should update RFC8296?. "With MPLS encapsulation, the BIER-incapable multicast flow overlay router MAY omit the BIER MPLS Encapsulation sub-sub-TLV, or MUST set the Label field in BIER MPLS Encapsulation sub-sub-TLV to Implicit Null Label [RFC3032]." Zzh> The spirit of that text in 8296 is to say that the BIER label must not= be PHP'ed *while keeping the BIER header*. We're talking about PHP the ent= ire BIER header, so it should be ok. Zzh> Thanks! Zzh> Jeffrey Regards, Nagendra From: BIER > on behalf = of Greg Shepherd > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 11:31 PM To: "bier@ietf.org" > Subject: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this draft previo= usly, but had no response. Let's do better. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-php/ Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19.. - Shep (Chairs) --_000_MN2PR05MB59818AF76B31E894EC3C2B71D4540MN2PR05MB5981namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Nagendra,

 

Thanks for your comments. Please see zzh> below.<= o:p>

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> O= n Behalf Of Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 9:22 PM
To: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>; bier@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi,

 

Support.

 

Few comments below:

 

è The below text appears to give an impression that the router is BIER inca= pable at both control plane and data plane. This either can be clarified or= can include a terminology explaining what it is.

 

“A BIER-incapable router, if acting as = a multicast flow overlay

   router, MUST signal its BIER informatio= n as specified in [RFC8401] or

   [RFC8444] or [I-D.ietf-bier-idr-extensi= ons]”

 

Zzh> How about adding the following paragraph aft= er the above paragraph?

 

   This implies that while the router is n= ot capable of BIER forwarding,

   It is capable of BIER control plane sig= naling.

 

è Section 2.1.1.1 of RFC8296 states that PHP MUST NOT be applied to BIER-MP= LS-Label. While the below statement mandates the signaling of Imp-Null (whi= ch is to enable PHP). So I think the draft should update RFC8296?.

 

“With MPLS encapsulation, the BIER-incapable m= ulticast flow overlay

   router MAY omit the BIER MPLS Encapsula= tion sub-sub-TLV, or MUST set

   the Label field in BIER MPLS Encapsulat= ion sub-sub-TLV to Implicit

   Null Label [RFC3032].”=

 

Zzh> The spirit of that text in 8296 is to say th= at the BIER label must not be PHP’ed *while keeping the BIER heade= r*. We’re talking about PHP the entire BIER header, so it should = be ok.

Zzh> Thanks!

Zzh> Jeffrey

 

Regards,

Nagendra

 

From= : BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf o= f Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 11:31 PM
To: "bier@ietf.org" &= lt;bier@ietf.org>
Subject: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php

 


Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this draft previo= usly, but had no response. Let’s do better. 

 

 

Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..

 

- Shep

(Chairs)

--_000_MN2PR05MB59818AF76B31E894EC3C2B71D4540MN2PR05MB5981namp_-- From nobody Fri Aug 28 17:13:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C529D3A0E6D; Fri, 28 Aug 2020 17:13:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zhtDiF6TL91M; Fri, 28 Aug 2020 17:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com (mail-lf1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4246B3A0E6C; Fri, 28 Aug 2020 17:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id k10so556583lfm.5; Fri, 28 Aug 2020 17:13:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ci8X9j7aUS/5zUxnetJ6uiwyGjWXxyegVG5mc/dLmNM=; b=WT5c77dmgz5gHobpZPI7oEPnsd78gAJtzakYfQKUsQB74IGnr2A9Wy1qSry1NQc3pB wOxFS9AQqDl3QGrTEdEfFRysdAXhEru6bZhtXHogG7lRffAxFl/NQKFGk+f7DBeGNt7A 8yn87HARPySbN/Dj+gQWkpVOItiNBpbBwYXqxsksLiU3kOnMwgeMMThQnJg1csojI9RQ p7ioQuCMF2GCBTWB9asE42+TR586k/npV3Tur7a9oOBYF5WmxEdq1H0ofdzlgxuOxcNh vkC3wxIqpJoidmitxTRu3yVG0vANMVrC7a5HSk/yPLU7INXVORwP3atmOGmJU2AM97a0 PlaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ci8X9j7aUS/5zUxnetJ6uiwyGjWXxyegVG5mc/dLmNM=; b=Fsl7qYdwgnB2Iv4XnOGf1xaAntmwlOlMhU67W3+7zrFi9ZmZwEEZQDeWtgwH29iIyM RCj8BOQRGfiUp0tpEblkoq6wXrC0yNtU75Agjw45Sqc8Ti3UqAyu06/biR6i59/rlMBe W8PjDUtZ6369bVenKE9UjxdSeOvwUSHcVegBhZrD1T+aHBlKxDzoftOWe+i8zh5a36z5 QnvJAS6ypnh1jGNWTksUKT7EpPfVDD+INm7ET7RSdF+HmktihXwT7tJutwAD9f6OTYld UIr0c17z3L8zj90qA8X7tFpN4HJamt+b0bGhZfJrm91X1N48IqpTs686/OBn9pBoc1iE UJGQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5303SmfA4Oh4/lnGFNZn18Hx0ZZZvUg8EF3nNrwOLAjV4spDtAzR T3QKq9mX5v8QDI+4hqv2mget82ip/et7vqN2S7HsrfmhTEQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxGyZowpjl07ujW3i69qeu96ckEF/ND/pQ1mCIvmrHMRCBp8E2qYbQ5SFo+6iHBARwoCLj10d6keOAndnQjdCA= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4c9c:: with SMTP id d28mr444167lfl.93.1598660030634; Fri, 28 Aug 2020 17:13:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Greg Mirsky Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2020 17:13:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa@ietf.org, BIER WG Chairs , BIER WG , bier-ads@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003e1ebe05adf90be7" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] IPR poll on draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 00:13:58 -0000 --0000000000003e1ebe05adf90be7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Authors, et al, I was assigned as the Shepherd of this document. Looking through the email archive, I couldn't find your responses to the IPR Poll. Hence, as an important step in preparing to advance this document, could you please respond to this the list to confirm whether you are aware of IPR that applies to this document. Common replies include: * No, I am not aware of any IPR that applies to this document * Yes, I am aware of IPR that applies to this document, and it has already been disclosed and is recorded in the datatracker. * Yes, I am aware of IPR that applies to this document, but it has not yet been disclosed. I will ensure that it is disclosed and recorded in the datatracker in a timely way. * I am aware of IPR held by a third party that might be applicable to this document but has not been disclosed. I will make a third-party IPR disclosure in a timely way. Other members of the WG who are aware of IPR related to this work are encouraged to make the necessary disclosures. In the meantime, I'll work on my comments and the write-up. Regards, Greg M. --0000000000003e1ebe05adf90be7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Authors, et al,

I was=C2=A0assigned as the Sheph= erd of this document. Looking through the email archive, I couldn't fin= d your responses to the IPR Poll. Hence, as an important=C2=A0step in prepa= ring to advance this document, could you please respond to this the list to= confirm whether you are aware of IPR that applies to this document.
Common replies include:

* No, I am not aware of any IPR that applie= s to this document

* Yes, I am aware of IPR that applies to this doc= ument, and it has already been disclosed and is recorded in the datatracker= .

* Yes, I am aware of IPR that applies to this document, but it has= not yet been disclosed. I will ensure that it is disclosed and recorded in= the datatracker in a timely way.

* I am aware of IPR held by a thir= d party that might be applicable to this document but has not been disclose= d. I will make a third-party IPR disclosure in a timely way.

Other m= embers of the WG who are aware of IPR related to this work are encouraged t= o make the necessary disclosures.=C2=A0=C2=A0

In the= meantime, I'll work on my comments and the write-up.

Regards,
Greg M.
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Mon, 31 Aug 2020 11:58:51 +0000 From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" To: Greg Mirsky , "draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa@ietf.org" , BIER WG Chairs , BIER WG , "bier-ads@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa Thread-Index: AQHWfZlNG2NeuaAhMUi+AD8Q3TX0gqlSID4g Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 11:58:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-08-31T11:58:49Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=5c229665-7552-415c-bc73-4eff2245b635; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ContentBits=2 dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.5.0.60 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: gmail.com; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am not aware of any IPR that applies to this document. Jeffrey Juniper Business Use Only From: Greg Mirsky Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 8:14 PM To: draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa@ietf.org; BIER WG Chairs = ; BIER WG ; bier-ads@ietf.org Subject: IPR poll on draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Authors, et al, I was assigned as the Shepherd of this document. Looking through the email = archive, I couldn't find your responses to the IPR Poll. Hence, as an impor= tant step in preparing to advance this document, could you please respond t= o this the list to confirm whether you are aware of IPR that applies to thi= s document. Common replies include: * No, I am not aware of any IPR that applies to this document * Yes, I am aware of IPR that applies to this document, and it has already = been disclosed and is recorded in the datatracker. * Yes, I am aware of IPR that applies to this document, but it has not yet = been disclosed. I will ensure that it is disclosed and recorded in the data= tracker in a timely way. * I am aware of IPR held by a third party that might be applicable to this = document but has not been disclosed. I will make a third-party IPR disclosu= re in a timely way. Other members of the WG who are aware of IPR related to this work are encou= raged to make the necessary disclosures. In the meantime, I'll work on my comments and the write-up. Regards, Greg M. --_000_MN2PR05MB598180A351ABD86990156945D4510MN2PR05MB5981namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am not aware of any IPR that applies to this docum= ent.

 

Jeffrey

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com&g= t;
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 8:14 PM
To: draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa@ietf.org; BIER WG Chairs <bier-chairs= @ietf.org>; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>; bier-ads@ietf.org
Subject: IPR poll on draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi Authors, et al,

I was assigned as the Shepherd of this document. Looking through the e= mail archive, I couldn't find your responses to the IPR Poll. Hence, as an = important step in preparing to advance this document, could you please= respond to this the list to confirm whether you are aware of IPR that applies to this document.

Common replies include:

* No, I am not aware of any IPR that applies to this document

* Yes, I am aware of IPR that applies to this document, and it has already = been disclosed and is recorded in the datatracker.

* Yes, I am aware of IPR that applies to this document, but it has not yet = been disclosed. I will ensure that it is disclosed and recorded in the data= tracker in a timely way.

* I am aware of IPR held by a third party that might be applicable to this = document but has not been disclosed. I will make a third-party IPR disclosu= re in a timely way.

Other members of the WG who are aware of IPR related to this work are encou= raged to make the necessary disclosures.  

 

In the meantime, I'll work on my comments and the wr= ite-up.

 

Regards,

Greg M.

--_000_MN2PR05MB598180A351ABD86990156945D4510MN2PR05MB5981namp_-- From nobody Mon Aug 31 08:18:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DAAF3A14E5 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 08:18:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KFuKxDWpWBWu for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 08:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ej1-x62d.google.com (mail-ej1-x62d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 449523A14AA for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 08:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id q13so5543181ejo.9 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 08:18:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=6p0zi5fJXtiYBoG4P9JBcaLQu8h7NHBK35emtv/5c2M=; b=tmi1HnmlFEcsFaKA+foF8UUOmmJ5IfpgkwJJ6mbhlCFt8E58wrxHCkTCkhWKE7jvNo t72sRAigbgLkguIiewBRMe6yv1nhGhbF5ukJrpoP8MHOMuQy5Flkp1SaNE/l3FAqVOg9 xej56hkdlE1vo+Ts7ZpcpAttfGPBrpdxOLp87HSLhi6S9Bkylsl1rvI5NtLBeSu0B/h9 KAAynoBhkmWLVS37vbgGDzUKx7kMDnknIdlF2nztvwGvJBXKIBS3u5QTLGstO0ArssFS UgaZUJgs5/LW8Q1VNojQrHGqmtooiT6TmrGoH0SHM4CfdOf7tyZNVNK5WDwfna3abN5d LMyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6p0zi5fJXtiYBoG4P9JBcaLQu8h7NHBK35emtv/5c2M=; b=P1L3Ucu/yGOilKaZYuZ/IkgYMEelwlaVukHkc/PSPIWAUoXViT0zXogIFpypRV2EQ+ tungvjvfLFSjmxuMiboiotm36QY8C/67smKk1i/CX8uTnIcsrmry8gffnFFbAKPCl2tz hm3Xq64VJ+rhOVO2wi+r2tl7+j18k2nlxmyfxeTCrEG7NTuY715Jy5EaIhrTccwanmX3 bLgO8cmPN1GDPn3Cul5bmZM5+RdwpTzrp0qAiZlyWz4Mwfouu0aYX30Jtg7ga844kdW5 SYktLsNBEpUZ+XnpNzC/4BqIWP/IM8Zz3Cz98KKFHW6WUgMBgzzS7IH24iqAntiKgwoW K6zw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533OaLfGxzcj/EGzz2rMNcVPkm0a0tVYntVg/tdm2LMlX72EMTU3 HmzGOC1y9ouqrjfUbPsudlIUR2eq9rRy3HQfRmufkW89SNg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxvM+ieKgHgwAe5OEdu1bpK1FW4PUQuGJJZ/JC8UVIarnfujn7C7yZ1cNHibAt+hloUlPPM5vaCbbNon6egrWw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b210:: with SMTP id p16mr1568485ejz.312.1598887100707; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 08:18:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1E057E92-424E-4456-936C-F8C842340ADB@gmail.com> <9300613D-A740-476E-BC8F-3B0D25C8E883@cisco.com> <223C9348-563A-43DC-B9E3-DE978CA7FA68@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com From: Greg Shepherd Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 08:18:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" Cc: Loa Andersson , Greg Mirsky , "bier@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ac789505ae2de984" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 15:18:25 -0000 --000000000000ac789505ae2de984 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Loa, Can you please review Jeffrey's changes to confirm they address your concerns? If so, then we can move this along. Thanks, Greg On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 12:06 PM Greg Shepherd wrote: > Thanks Jeffrey and Greg. Loa, please confirm when you can that this rev > addresses your concerns. > > Shep > (chairs) > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 10:50 AM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang 40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> Hi Loa, Greg, >> >> >> >> I=E2=80=99ve submitted -06 to take care of your comments. >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> Jeffrey >> >> >> >> Juniper Business Use Only >> >> *From:* BIER *On Behalf Of * Jeffrey (Zhaohui) >> Zhang >> *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2020 11:16 AM >> *To:* Loa Andersson ; Gyan Mishra ; >> Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) >> *Cc:* IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) ; >> Greg Shepherd ; bier@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php >> >> >> >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]* >> >> >> >> Hi Loa, >> >> >> >> Please see zzh> below. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BIER On Behalf Of Loa Andersson >> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 1:57 AM >> To: Gyan Mishra ; Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) < >> mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> >> Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) = ; >> Greg Shepherd ; bier@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php >> >> >> >> [External Email. Be cautious of content] >> >> >> >> >> >> Working Group, >> >> >> >> I've had time to read the draft a bit more in detail.. >> >> >> >> I'm convinced that this will work, and support progressing the draft. >> >> >> >> I still think there are some minor description details that could be >> improved. >> >> >> >> The draft says: >> >> >> >> One way to solve this problem is to use Penultimate Hop Popping (PHP= ) >> >> so that the upstream BFR can pop the BIER header and send the payloa= d >> >> "natively" (note that the upstream BFR can be connected directly or >> >> indirectly via any type of tunnel to the PE). This is similar to >> >> Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) PHP though it is the BIER >> >> header that is popped. >> >> >> >> This indicate that this is a "per node" decision, while in MPLS it is a >> per LSP decision. >> >> >> >> Zzh> It=E2=80=99s a per node decision for all traffic to a particular = =E2=80=9CBFER=E2=80=9D who >> does not really support BIER forwarding. PHP is not used when the BFERs = do >> support BIER. >> >> >> >> I would think that it is possible for one node to be the penultimate nod= e >> for some traffic but not for other traffic, even though the traffic is s= ent >> to the same node, which can be both ultimate node, pen-ultimate node or >> transit node. >> >> >> >> +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ >> >> | | | | | | >> >> -a,b-+ A +-----a',b-----+ B +----a'----+ CPE1 | >> >> | | | | | | >> >> +-------+ +---+---+ +-------+ >> >> | >> >> b' >> >> | >> >> +---+---+ +-------+ >> >> | | | | >> >> + C +----b'----+ CPE2 | >> >> | | | | >> >> +---+---+ +-------+ >> >> >> >> >> >> Two streams comes in to A from the left (a and b). >> >> >> >> A is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE1 (a) so the BIER header >> is popped. >> >> >> >> A is not the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b) so the BIER >> header is not popped. >> >> >> >> Zzh> So the context is that B does support BIER. In that case, A won=E2= =80=99t do >> PHP for B at all. >> >> >> >> Both a' and b is sent to B. >> >> >> >> B forward a' natively to CPE1. >> >> >> >> B is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b) so the BIER header >> is popped. >> >> >> >> b' is forwarded to C and onto CPE2 >> >> >> >> Works just fine. >> >> >> >> Question: If the PHP is a "per node decision" how is A stopped from doin= g >> PHP for b? >> >> >> >> Zzh> Please see above :-) >> >> Zzh> Thanks. >> >> Zzh> Jeffrey >> >> >> >> /Loa >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 22/08/2020 05:20, Gyan Mishra wrote: >> >> > >> >> > I support advancing this critical draft forward.. I agree that the PH= P >> >> > feature traditionally used with MPLS and has been adopted by SR and >> >> > now by BIER for similar reasons of being able to pop the BIER header >> >> > similar to what is done with SR PHP concept and now extensible with >> >> > BIER for Non-BRF capable PE's. >> >> > >> >> > BIER IPv6 is still being developed, however I think maybe BIERin6 >> >> > could take advantage of PHP by popping the encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER >> >> > shim for "Non-BFR" capable PE. I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header >> >> > is encoded in DOH it may be difficult to support PHP. >> >> > >> >> > Thanks >> >> > >> >> > Gyan >> >> > >> >> > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) >> >> > > >> > >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Support moving this document forward. ____ >> >> > >> >> > __ __ >> >> > >> >> > *From: *BIER = > >> >> > on behalf of "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" >> >> > > >> > >> >> >> > *Date: *Monday, August 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM >> >> > *To: *Greg Shepherd > >> >> > *Cc: *"bier@ietf.org " > >> > >> >> >> > *Subject: *Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php____ >> >> > >> >> > __ __ >> >> > >> >> > In support moving this draft forward, ____ >> >> > >> >> > __ __ >> >> > >> >> > Thx,____ >> >> > >> >> > __ __ >> >> > >> >> > Ice.____ >> >> > >> >> > Sent from my iPhone____ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ____ >> >> > >> >> > On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:31, Greg Shepherd > >> > >> wrote:____ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this >> >> > draft previously, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better= . ____ >> >> > >> >> > __ __ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iet >> >> >> > f-bier-php/______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7Cnpq >> >> > vfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVq2FrBGNX$ >> >> > >> >> > __ __ >> >> > >> >> > Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..____ >> >> > >> >> > __ __ >> >> > >> >> > - Shep____ >> >> > >> >> > (Chairs)____ >> >> > >> Juniper Business Use Only >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > BIER mailing list >> >> > BIER@ietf.org > >> >> > >> >> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> >> >> > ______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLy >> >> > E8pK0PVq8rXWgdg$ >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > BIER mailing list >> >> > BIER@ietf.org > >> >> > >> >> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> >> >> > __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK >> >> > 0PVq9z6N_yR$ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > >> >> > > >> > s4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVqyDf-6DB$ > >> >> > >> >> > *Gyan Mishra* >> >> > >> >> > /Network Solutions A//rchitect / >> >> > >> >> > /M 301 502-1347 >> >> > 13101 Columbia Pike >> >> > /Silver Spring, MD >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > BIER mailing list >> >> > BIER@ietf.org >> >> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> >> >> > __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK >> >> > 0PVq9z6N_yR$ >> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu >> >> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com >> >> >> Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> BIER mailing list >> >> BIER@ietf.org >> >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier__= ;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVq9z6= N_yR$ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BIER mailing list >> BIER@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >> > --000000000000ac789505ae2de984 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Loa,

Can you please review=C2=A0Jeffrey= 's changes to confirm they address your concerns? If so, then we can mo= ve this along.

Thanks,
Greg
<= br>
On Mon,= Aug 24, 2020 at 12:06 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Jeffrey and Greg. Loa, please confirm when you can that this re= v addresses your concerns.

Shep
(chairs)
=

= On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 10:50 AM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@= dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Hi Loa, Greg,

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99ve submitted -06 to take care of your comm= ents.

=C2=A0

Thanks.

Jeffrey

=C2=A0


Juniper Business Use Only

From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of = Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 11:16 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Mankamana Mishra (mankam= is) <mankamis=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&= gt;; Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>; bier@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php

=C2=A0

[External Email. Be cautious of content]=

=C2=A0

Hi Loa,

=C2=A0

Please see zzh> below.

=C2=A0

-----Original Message-----
From: BIER <b= ier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 1:57 AM
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankami= s=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<= /a>>; Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>; bier@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-php

=C2=A0

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Working Group,

=C2=A0

I've had time to read the draft a bit more in de= tail..

=C2=A0

I'm convinced that this will work, and support p= rogressing the draft.

=C2=A0

I still think there are some minor description detai= ls that could be improved.

=C2=A0

The draft says:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 One way to solve this problem is = to use Penultimate Hop Popping (PHP)

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 so that the upstream BFR can pop = the BIER header and send the payload

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "natively" (note that t= he upstream BFR can be connected directly or

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 indirectly via any type of tunnel= to the PE).=C2=A0 This is similar to

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Multi-Protocol Label Switching (M= PLS) PHP though it is the BIER

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 header that is popped.<= /u>

=C2=A0

This indicate that this is a "per node" de= cision, while in MPLS it is a per LSP decision.

=C2=A0

Zzh> It=E2=80=99s a per node decision for all tra= ffic to a particular =E2=80=9CBFER=E2=80=9D who does not really support BIE= R forwarding. PHP is not used when the BFERs do support BIER.=

=C2=A0

I would think that it is possible for one node to be= the penultimate node for some traffic but not for other traffic, even thou= gh the traffic is sent to the same node, which can be both ultimate node, p= en-ultimate node or transit node.

=C2=A0

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=

= -a,b-+=C2=A0=C2=A0 A=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-----a',b-----+=C2=A0=C2=A0 B=C2=A0= =C2=A0 +----a'----+=C2=A0 CPE1 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 b'

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 +-------+

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +=C2=A0=C2=A0 C=C2=A0=C2=A0 +----b'----+=C2=A0 CPE2 = |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 |

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 +-------+

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Two streams comes in to A from the left (a and b).

=C2=A0

A is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE1 (a)= so the BIER header is popped.

=C2=A0

A is not the=C2=A0 penultimate node for traffic to t= o CPE2 (b) so the BIER header is not popped.

=C2=A0

Zzh> So the context is that B does support BIER. = In that case, A won=E2=80=99t do PHP for B at all.

=C2=A0

Both a' and b is sent to B.

=C2=A0

B forward a' natively to CPE1.

=C2=A0

B is the penultimate node for traffic to to CPE2 (b)= so the BIER header is popped.

=C2=A0

b' is forwarded to C and onto CPE2=

=C2=A0

Works just fine.

=C2=A0

Question: If the PHP is a "per node decision&qu= ot; how is A stopped from doing PHP for b?

=C2=A0

Zzh> Please see above :-)

Zzh> Thanks.

Zzh> Jeffrey

=C2=A0

/Loa

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On 22/08/2020 05:20, Gyan Mishra wrote:

>=C2=A0

> I support advancing this critical draft forward= ..=C2=A0 I agree that the PHP

> feature traditionally used with MPLS and has be= en adopted by SR and

> now by BIER for similar reasons of being able t= o pop the BIER header

> similar to what is done with SR PHP concept and= now extensible with

> BIER for Non-BRF capable PE's.

>=C2=A0

> BIER IPv6 is still being developed, however I t= hink maybe BIERin6

> could take advantage of=C2=A0 PHP by popping th= e encapsulated L2 1/2 BIER

> shim for "Non-BFR" capable PE.=C2=A0 = I think for BIERv6 as the BIER header

> is encoded in DOH it may be difficult to suppor= t PHP.

>=C2=A0

> Thanks

>=C2=A0

> Gyan

>=C2=A0

> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM Mankamana Mishr= a (mankamis)

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Support moving this doc= ument forward. ____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *From: *BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>&= gt;

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 on behalf of "IJsb= rand Wijnands (iwijnand)"

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <iwijnand=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.= ietf.org

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.= org>>

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Date: *Monday, August = 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *To: *Greg Shepherd <= ;gjshep@gmail.com <mailto:gjshep@gmail.com>>=

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Cc: *"bier@i= etf.org <mailto:bier@ietf.org>" <bier@ietf.org

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:bier@ietf.org>><= /u>

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Subject: *Re: [Bier] W= GLC: draft-ietf-bier-php____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In support moving this = draft forward, ____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thx,____<= /p>

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ice.____<= /p>

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sent from my iPhone____=

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= On 13 Aug 2020, at 05:31, Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= <mailto:gjshep@gm= ail.com>> wrote:____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Please read and respond to this thread. We had a WGLC for this

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= draft previously, but had no response. Let=E2=80=99s do better. ____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=

> f-bier-php/______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaE= jyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7Cnpq

> vfA3s4r-JLyE8pK0PVq2FrBGNX$

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Start of short LC timer. Respond by Aug 19..____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= __ __

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= - Shep____

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= (Chairs)____

> Juniper Business Use Only=

=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= _______________________________________________

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>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=

> ______;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcm= mmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLy

> E8pK0PVq8rXWgdg$

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 _______________________= ________________________

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>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 BIER@ietf.org <mailto:BIER@ietf.org>

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> __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGg= DiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK

> 0PVq9z6N_yR$

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

>=C2=A0

> --

>=C2=A0

> s4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGgDiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JL= yE8pK0PVqyDf-6DB$ >

>=C2=A0

> *Gyan Mishra*

>=C2=A0

> /Network Solutions A//rchitect /<= /p>

>=C2=A0

> /M 301 502-1347

> 13101 Columbia Pike

> /Silver Spring, MD

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> BIER mailing list

> __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Ws4otxDsuVKTsaEjyRKVYz-hcmmmGg= DiE7CnpqvfA3s4r-JLyE8pK

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Loa Andersson=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 email: loa@pi.nu

Senior MPLS Expert=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 loa.pi.nu@gmail.com

Bronze Dragon Consulting=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 phone: +46 739 81 21 64

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[86.97.144.125]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id re10sm5618917ejb.68.2020.08.30.09.17.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 30 Aug 2020 09:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Andrew Dolganow In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 20:17:23 +0400 Cc: draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa@ietf.org, BIER WG Chairs , BIER WG , bier-ads@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Greg Mirsky X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] IPR poll on draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 17:36:34 -0000 Not aware of any IPR Andrew > On Aug 29, 2020, at 4:13 AM, Greg Mirsky = wrote: >=20 > Hi Authors, et al, >=20 > I was assigned as the Shepherd of this document. Looking through the = email archive, I couldn't find your responses to the IPR Poll. Hence, as = an important step in preparing to advance this document, could you = please respond to this the list to confirm whether you are aware of IPR = that applies to this document. >=20 > Common replies include: >=20 > * No, I am not aware of any IPR that applies to this document >=20 > * Yes, I am aware of IPR that applies to this document, and it has = already been disclosed and is recorded in the datatracker. >=20 > * Yes, I am aware of IPR that applies to this document, but it has not = yet been disclosed. I will ensure that it is disclosed and recorded in = the datatracker in a timely way. >=20 > * I am aware of IPR held by a third party that might be applicable to = this document but has not been disclosed. I will make a third-party IPR = disclosure in a timely way. >=20 > Other members of the WG who are aware of IPR related to this work are = encouraged to make the necessary disclosures. =20 >=20 > In the meantime, I'll work on my comments and the write-up. >=20 > Regards, > Greg M.