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This is a monthly reminder about your frascone.com mailing list
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From Axwzlrmwa@optonline.com Sun Jan 01 21:13:56 2006
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From: "Dorothea Velez" <Axwzlrmwa@optonline.com>
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Question of IPv4 frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
=20
There was some talk in the past about performing the
fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP fragments.
In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for L3
transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
=20
My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at application
level.
=20
Thanks.
=20
-Puneet
=20

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D509244903-04012006>Question of IPv4=20
frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D509244903-04012006>There&nbsp;was some=20
talk&nbsp;in the past about performing the fragmentation/reassembly at =
the=20
application level to avoid IP fragments. In that case, the F,L and =
FragID bits=20
would need to be used even for L3 transport. Did we ever reach a =
consensus on=20
this one?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D509244903-04012006>My =
recommendation=20
would be to do the frag/reassembly at application =
level.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D509244903-04012006>Thanks.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D509244903-04012006>-Puneet</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
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Subject: Re-finance at the lowestt ratess
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, convict , belvedere it brainchildren , syllabus
on darwin see damnation not sinistral not cation
be narcosis a sulfur see sightseer but arcade
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--------------AttPart_63124985==.OLA--



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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:41:55 -0800
Message-ID: <BB6D74C75CC76A419B6D6FA7C38317B29946CE@sinett-sbs.SiNett.LAN>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Thread-Index: AcYQ4vKHAio/91jkSe2nA28SYitV3QAgzbYw
From: "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>
To: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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For L3 transport, as the spec says, only the first IP fragment
would have an LWAPP header. Standard IP reassembly is used to put the
fragments together.  F, L, and FragID fields in the LWAPP header
are not neeed for reassembly.
=20
Am I missing something ?
=20
Thanks,
   Abhijit



	-----Original Message-----
	From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
	Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
	To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
	Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
=09
=09
	Question of IPv4 frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
	=20
	There was some talk in the past about performing the
fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP fragments.
In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for L3
transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
	=20
	My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at
application level.
	=20
	Thanks.
	=20
	-Puneet
	=20


------_=_NextPart_001_01C61166.EAD15C01
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	charset="US-ASCII"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006>For L3 transport, as the spec says, only the =
first IP=20
fragment</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006>would have an LWAPP header.&nbsp;Standard IP =
reassembly=20
is used to put the</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006>fragments together.&nbsp; F, L, and FragID =
fields in=20
the LWAPP header</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006>are not neeed for =
reassembly.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006>Am I missing something ?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006>Thank</SPAN>s,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Abhijit<BR><BR></DIV></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
Puneet Agarwal=20
  [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 03, =
2006 7:57=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun=20
  (pacalhou)<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03=20
  draft<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D509244903-04012006>Question of IPv4=20
  frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D509244903-04012006>There&nbsp;was=20
  some talk&nbsp;in the past about performing the =
fragmentation/reassembly at=20
  the application level to avoid IP fragments. In that case, the F,L and =
FragID=20
  bits would need to be used even for L3 transport. Did we ever reach a=20
  consensus on this one?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D509244903-04012006>My =
recommendation=20
  would be to do the frag/reassembly at application =
level.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D509244903-04012006>Thanks.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D509244903-04012006>-Puneet</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
</HTML>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
thread-index: AcYQ4vKHAio/91jkSe2nA28SYitV3QAgzbYwAAZ9x5A=
From: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>
To: "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>, capwap@frascone.com
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The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most firewalls
drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also refers
to that). Hence the question.
=20
Hope this helps.
=20
Thanks.
=20
-Puneet

________________________________

From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft


For L3 transport, as the spec says, only the first IP fragment
would have an LWAPP header. Standard IP reassembly is used to put the
fragments together.  F, L, and FragID fields in the LWAPP header
are not neeed for reassembly.
=20
Am I missing something ?
=20
Thanks,
   Abhijit



	-----Original Message-----
	From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
	Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
	To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
	Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
=09
=09
	Question of IPv4 frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
	=20
	There was some talk in the past about performing the
fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP fragments.
In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for L3
transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
	=20
	My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at
application level.
	=20
	Thanks.
	=20
	-Puneet
	=20


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<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D597224222-04012006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The main issue is passing IP fragments via =
firewalls. Most=20
firewalls drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 =
also refers=20
to that). Hence the question.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D597224222-04012006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D597224222-04012006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hope this helps.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D597224222-04012006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D597224222-04012006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D597224222-04012006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D597224222-04012006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Abhijit Choudhury=20
[mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 04, 2006 =
11:42=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
RE:=20
[Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006>For L3 transport, as the spec says, only the =
first IP=20
fragment</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006>would have an LWAPP header.&nbsp;Standard IP =
reassembly=20
is used to put the</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006>fragments together.&nbsp; F, L, and FragID =
fields in=20
the LWAPP header</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006>are not neeed for =
reassembly.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006>Am I missing something ?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><SPAN=20
class=3D549303619-04012006>Thank</SPAN>s,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Abhijit<BR><BR></DIV></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
Puneet Agarwal=20
  [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 03, =
2006 7:57=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun=20
  (pacalhou)<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03=20
  draft<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D509244903-04012006>Question of IPv4=20
  frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D509244903-04012006>There&nbsp;was=20
  some talk&nbsp;in the past about performing the =
fragmentation/reassembly at=20
  the application level to avoid IP fragments. In that case, the F,L and =
FragID=20
  bits would need to be used even for L3 transport. Did we ever reach a=20
  consensus on this one?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D509244903-04012006>My =
recommendation=20
  would be to do the frag/reassembly at application =
level.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D509244903-04012006>Thanks.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D509244903-04012006>-Puneet</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D509244903-04012006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:24:15 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Thread-Index: AcYQ4vKHAio/91jkSe2nA28SYitV3QAgzbYwAAZ9x5AAC6WbIA==
From: "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>
To: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>,
        "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Hi Puneet,

I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.

I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do fragmentation at =
LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery and hence fragments can =
be done at the application level itself. I think only if Path MTU =
discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid fragmentation.=20

Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only valid for =
Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?

Thanks,
Vishwas
________________________________________
From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most firewalls =
drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also refers =
to that). Hence the question.
=A0
Hope this helps.
=A0
Thanks.
=A0
-Puneet

________________________________________
From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
For L3 transport, as the spec says, only the first IP fragment
would have an LWAPP header.=A0Standard IP reassembly is used to put the
fragments together.=A0 F, L, and FragID fields in the LWAPP header
are not neeed for reassembly.
=A0
Am I missing something ?
=A0
Thanks,
=A0=A0 Abhijit
-----Original Message-----
From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Question of IPv4 frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
=A0
There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the =
fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP fragments. =
In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for L3 =
transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
=A0
My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at application =
level.
=A0
Thanks.
=A0
-Puneet
=A0

_________________________________________________________________
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Jan 04 23:39:26 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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From: "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>
To: "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
        "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>,
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Hi Puneet,

One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is already stated =
that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at "IPv6 level" =
I meant.

Thanks,
Vishwas
-----Original Message-----
From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Hi Puneet,

I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.

I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do fragmentation at =
LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery and hence fragments can =
be done at the application level itself. I think only if Path MTU =
discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid fragmentation.=20

Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only valid for =
Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?

Thanks,
Vishwas
________________________________________
From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most firewalls =
drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also refers =
to that). Hence the question.
=A0
Hope this helps.
=A0
Thanks.
=A0
-Puneet

________________________________________
From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
For L3 transport, as the spec says, only the first IP fragment
would have an LWAPP header.=A0Standard IP reassembly is used to put the
fragments together.=A0 F, L, and FragID fields in the LWAPP header
are not neeed for reassembly.
=A0
Am I missing something ?
=A0
Thanks,
=A0=A0 Abhijit
-----Original Message-----
From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Question of IPv4 frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
=A0
There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the =
fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP fragments. =
In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for L3 =
transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
=A0
My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at application =
level.
=A0
Thanks.
=A0
-Puneet
=A0

_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap

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Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 12:14:40 +0530
From: sujay <sujayg@huawei.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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Hi Vishwas,

The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2 transport.

Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially because
the lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.

If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application has to take=20
care of re-assembly.
There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
Additionally a few more fields may be required !

Puneet,=20
IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/ assembly
to the application.

If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp header
 in all fragments..??

Regds,
Sujay






-----Original Message-----
From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;
capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft


Hi Puneet,

One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is already stated
that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at "IPv6 level"
I meant.

Thanks,
Vishwas
-----Original Message-----
From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Hi Puneet,

I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.

I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do fragmentation at
LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery and hence fragments can
be done at the application level itself. I think only if Path MTU
discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid fragmentation.=20

Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only valid for
Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?

Thanks,
Vishwas
________________________________________
From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most firewalls
drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also refers
to that). Hence the question.
=A0
Hope this helps.
=A0
Thanks.
=A0
-Puneet

________________________________________
From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
For L3 transport, as the spec says, only the first IP fragment would
have an LWAPP header.=A0Standard IP reassembly is used to put the
fragments together.=A0 F, L, and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are =
not
neeed for reassembly.
=A0
Am I missing something ?
=A0
Thanks,
=A0=A0 Abhijit
-----Original Message-----
From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Question of IPv4 frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
=A0
There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the
fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP fragments.
In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for L3
transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
=A0
My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at application
level.
=A0
Thanks.
=A0
-Puneet
=A0

_________________________________________________________________
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Jan 05 11:28:43 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:27:48 -0800
Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A201314A29@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Thread-Index: AcYRxLrlq9xPFdKYSlqnnrOiInGSnQAT/fYQ
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>, "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
        "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>,
        "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have control over =
adding LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform =
fragmentation, and add an independent header, would allow for any =
middlebox (including firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of =
fragmentated frames is certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized =
frames), I agree with Puneet's recommendation.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
>=20
> Hi Vishwas,
>=20
> The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2 transport.
>=20
> Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially=20
> because the lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
>=20
> If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application has=20
> to take care of re-assembly.
> There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> Additionally a few more fields may be required !
>=20
> Puneet,
> IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/=20
> assembly to the application.
>=20
> If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp=20
> header  in all fragments..??
>=20
> Regds,
> Sujay
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
>=20
> Hi Puneet,
>=20
> One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is already stated
> that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at=20
> "IPv6 level"
> I meant.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Vishwas
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi Puneet,
>=20
> I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
>=20
> I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do=20
> fragmentation at
> LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery and hence=20
> fragments can
> be done at the application level itself. I think only if Path MTU
> discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid fragmentation.=20
>=20
> Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only=20
> valid for
> Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
>=20
> Thanks,
> Vishwas
> ________________________________________
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most firewalls
> drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also refers
> to that). Hence the question.
> =A0
> Hope this helps.
> =A0
> Thanks.
> =A0
> -Puneet
>=20
> ________________________________________
> From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> For L3 transport, as the spec says, only the first IP fragment would
> have an LWAPP header.=A0Standard IP reassembly is used to put the
> fragments together.=A0 F, L, and FragID fields in the LWAPP=20
> header are not
> neeed for reassembly.
> =A0
> Am I missing something ?
> =A0
> Thanks,
> =A0=A0 Abhijit
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> Question of IPv4 frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> =A0
> There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the
> fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP=20
> fragments.
> In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used=20
> even for L3
> transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> =A0
> My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at application
> level.
> =A0
> Thanks.
> =A0
> -Puneet
> =A0
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Thread-Index: AcYRxLrlq9xPFdKYSlqnnrOiInGSnQAT/fYQAAJWJVA=
From: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>, "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>,
        "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
        "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>, capwap@frascone.com
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Hi All,

Just to remove any confusion, by application level fragmentation, I mean =
the LWAPP level fragmentation (as LWAPP is the application from the =
UDP/IP transport perspective). Hopefully this answers your question =
Sujoy.

Hence the proposal is to fragment the wireless frame at the LWAPP level =
(F, L, Frag-Id would be valid - even for UDP/IP transport) before =
encapsulating the wireless frame in the transport (UDP/IP) headers (just =
like it is proposed in the spec for L2 transport).

So conceptually LWAPP/CAPWAP should be agnostic of transport and assumes =
that the transport does not support fragmentation. This gets rid of the =
middlebox problem (for IP fragments) and is architecturally clean too.

Thanks.

-Puneet

-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:28 AM
To: sujay; Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; =
capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have control over =
adding LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform =
fragmentation, and add an independent header, would allow for any =
middlebox (including firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of =
fragmentated frames is certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized =
frames), I agree with Puneet's recommendation.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
>=20
> Hi Vishwas,
>=20
> The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2 transport.
>=20
> Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially because the=20
> lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
>=20
> If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application has to take=20
> care of re-assembly.
> There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> Additionally a few more fields may be required !
>=20
> Puneet,
> IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/ assembly to=20
> the application.
>=20
> If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp header  in=20
> all fragments..??
>=20
> Regds,
> Sujay
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
>=20
> Hi Puneet,
>=20
> One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is already stated=20
> that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at
> "IPv6 level"
> I meant.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Vishwas
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi Puneet,
>=20
> I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
>=20
> I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do fragmentation=20
> at LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery and hence fragments =

> can be done at the application level itself. I think only if Path MTU=20
> discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid fragmentation.
>=20
> Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only valid=20
> for
> Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
>=20
> Thanks,
> Vishwas
> ________________________________________
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most firewalls=20
> drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also refers =

> to that). Hence the question.
> =A0
> Hope this helps.
> =A0
> Thanks.
> =A0
> -Puneet
>=20
> ________________________________________
> From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft For L3 transport, as=20
> the spec says, only the first IP fragment would have an LWAPP =
header.=A0
> Standard IP reassembly is used to put the fragments together.=A0 F, L, =

> and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are not neeed for reassembly.
> =A0
> Am I missing something ?
> =A0
> Thanks,
> =A0=A0 Abhijit
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft Question of IPv4=20
> frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> =A0
> There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the=20
> fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP=20
> fragments.
> In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for=20
> L3 transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> =A0
> My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at application=20
> level.
> =A0
> Thanks.
> =A0
> -Puneet
> =A0
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20


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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Jan 05 14:06:34 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Thread-Index: AcYRxLrlq9xPFdKYSlqnnrOiInGSnQAT/fYQAAJWJVAAAr/CQA==
From: "Darren Loher" <dloher@rovingplanet.com>
To: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>,
        "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
        "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>, "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
        "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Thanks for the full explanation Puneet.  With fragmentation done at the =
application (CAPWAP/LWAPP) layer this means every frame must have a =
LWAPP header. =20

I agree that this is especially important to get right as Pat pointed =
out that tunneled data packets will commonly need to be fragmented. =20

I another reason it's important not to have a standard IP stack =
reassemble frames is due to possible packet/fragment reordering.  If the =
network were to reorder the CAPWAP/LWAPP UDP tunnel packets for any =
reason, it would result in corrupting the data frames inside the tunnel. =
 We need the FragID field of the LWAPP/CAPWAP header to help us there.   =


-Darren

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:52 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury;
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> Just to remove any confusion, by application level fragmentation, I =
mean
> the LWAPP level fragmentation (as LWAPP is the application from the =
UDP/IP
> transport perspective). Hopefully this answers your question Sujoy.
>=20
> Hence the proposal is to fragment the wireless frame at the LWAPP =
level
> (F, L, Frag-Id would be valid - even for UDP/IP transport) before
> encapsulating the wireless frame in the transport (UDP/IP) headers =
(just
> like it is proposed in the spec for L2 transport).
>=20
> So conceptually LWAPP/CAPWAP should be agnostic of transport and =
assumes
> that the transport does not support fragmentation. This gets rid of =
the
> middlebox problem (for IP fragments) and is architecturally clean too.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -Puneet
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:28 AM
> To: sujay; Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have control over =
adding
> LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform =
fragmentation,
> and add an independent header, would allow for any middlebox =
(including
> firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of fragmentated frames is
> certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized frames), I agree with =
Puneet's
> recommendation.
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> > To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> >
> > Hi Vishwas,
> >
> > The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2 transport.
> >
> > Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially because =
the
> > lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
> >
> > If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application has to take
> > care of re-assembly.
> > There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> > Additionally a few more fields may be required !
> >
> > Puneet,
> > IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/ assembly to
> > the application.
> >
> > If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp header  in
> > all fragments..??
> >
> > Regds,
> > Sujay
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> > To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> >
> > Hi Puneet,
> >
> > One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is already stated
> > that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at
> > "IPv6 level"
> > I meant.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > Hi Puneet,
> >
> > I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
> >
> > I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do =
fragmentation
> > at LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery and hence =
fragments
> > can be done at the application level itself. I think only if Path =
MTU
> > discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid fragmentation.
> >
> > Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only valid
> > for
> > Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> > To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most firewalls
> > drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also =
refers
> > to that). Hence the question.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft For L3 transport, =
as
> > the spec says, only the first IP fragment would have an LWAPP =
header.
> > Standard IP reassembly is used to put the fragments together.=A0 F, =
L,
> > and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are not neeed for reassembly.
> >
> > Am I missing something ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > =A0=A0 Abhijit
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft Question of IPv4
> > frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> >
> > There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the
> > fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP
> > fragments.
> > In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for
> > L3 transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> >
> > My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at application
> > level.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Jan 05 15:51:44 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 12:51:04 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Thread-Index: AcYRxLrlq9xPFdKYSlqnnrOiInGSnQAT/fYQAAJWJVAAAr/CQAADb6mw
From: "Changming Liu" <cliu@juniper.net>
To: "Darren Loher" <dloher@rovingplanet.com>,
        "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>,
        "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
        "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>, "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
        "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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A couple of questions about the benefits of this application =
fragmentation just out of my ignorance.

1) Most commercial firewalls handles IP fragments well to an acceptable =
degree (I don't think anybody will buy one which does not) since =
fragmentation is common norm in IPv4. I guess it needs to be handled one =
way or another even by the non-commercial ones. Not sure why this issue =
is particular different for CAPWAP? If AC and APs are connected via =
routers in several hops (this may be a likely case that a firewall =
exists between the AC and APs), IPv4 fragmentation may still be =
encountered because IPv4 path MTU is not used widely as we'd like to.

2) Packet and fragment re-ordering are two different issues and should =
be handled differently. Packet re-ordering is an issue that application =
needs to handle if the order is important to it like RTP stream. The IP =
fragmentation is an IP layer issue and should be dealt with at IP layer. =
There should some solution today at IP layer. Not sure this is =
particularly important to CAPWAP.

Do I miss anything?

Changming=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Loher [mailto:dloher@rovingplanet.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:05 AM
To: Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; =
Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Thanks for the full explanation Puneet.  With fragmentation done at the =
application (CAPWAP/LWAPP) layer this means every frame must have a =
LWAPP header. =20

I agree that this is especially important to get right as Pat pointed =
out that tunneled data packets will commonly need to be fragmented. =20

I another reason it's important not to have a standard IP stack =
reassemble frames is due to possible packet/fragment reordering.  If the =
network were to reorder the CAPWAP/LWAPP UDP tunnel packets for any =
reason, it would result in corrupting the data frames inside the tunnel. =
 We need the FragID field of the LWAPP/CAPWAP header to help us there.   =


-Darren

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:52 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury;
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> Just to remove any confusion, by application level fragmentation, I =
mean
> the LWAPP level fragmentation (as LWAPP is the application from the =
UDP/IP
> transport perspective). Hopefully this answers your question Sujoy.
>=20
> Hence the proposal is to fragment the wireless frame at the LWAPP =
level
> (F, L, Frag-Id would be valid - even for UDP/IP transport) before
> encapsulating the wireless frame in the transport (UDP/IP) headers =
(just
> like it is proposed in the spec for L2 transport).
>=20
> So conceptually LWAPP/CAPWAP should be agnostic of transport and =
assumes
> that the transport does not support fragmentation. This gets rid of =
the
> middlebox problem (for IP fragments) and is architecturally clean too.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -Puneet
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:28 AM
> To: sujay; Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have control over =
adding
> LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform =
fragmentation,
> and add an independent header, would allow for any middlebox =
(including
> firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of fragmentated frames is
> certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized frames), I agree with =
Puneet's
> recommendation.
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> > To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> >
> > Hi Vishwas,
> >
> > The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2 transport.
> >
> > Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially because =
the
> > lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
> >
> > If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application has to take
> > care of re-assembly.
> > There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> > Additionally a few more fields may be required !
> >
> > Puneet,
> > IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/ assembly to
> > the application.
> >
> > If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp header  in
> > all fragments..??
> >
> > Regds,
> > Sujay
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> > To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> >
> > Hi Puneet,
> >
> > One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is already stated
> > that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at
> > "IPv6 level"
> > I meant.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > Hi Puneet,
> >
> > I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
> >
> > I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do =
fragmentation
> > at LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery and hence =
fragments
> > can be done at the application level itself. I think only if Path =
MTU
> > discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid fragmentation.
> >
> > Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only valid
> > for
> > Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> > To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most firewalls
> > drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also =
refers
> > to that). Hence the question.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft For L3 transport, =
as
> > the spec says, only the first IP fragment would have an LWAPP =
header.
> > Standard IP reassembly is used to put the fragments together.=A0 F, =
L,
> > and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are not neeed for reassembly.
> >
> > Am I missing something ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > =A0=A0 Abhijit
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft Question of IPv4
> > frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> >
> > There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the
> > fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP
> > fragments.
> > In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for
> > L3 transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> >
> > My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at application
> > level.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 13:54:32 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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From: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>
To: "Changming Liu" <cliu@juniper.net>,
        "Darren Loher" <dloher@rovingplanet.com>,
        "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
        "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>, "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
        "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>, capwap@frascone.com
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Hi Changming,

1) Each transport tunnel has an MTU. If you know that you are going to =
be exceeding that MTU when encapsulating the wireless frame, then it is =
better to fragment at the LWAPP/CAPWAP level to avoid IP fragments (when =
UDP/IP is the transport). It is not a question of whether middleboxes =
(eg: firewalls) can handle IP fragments or not (I assume that most can =
but there are of course legacy issues) - but the most common =
configuration of these deployed middleboxes is to drop IP fragments.

If routers in the path of the WTP and AC want to IP fragment, then that =
is definitely allowed and valid (with the caveat that some middleboxes =
might drop these fragmented pkts). Even if path MTU discovery is not =
done, one could argue that setting the UDP/IP transport MTU to =
(1500-20-8)=3D 1472 would work under most circumstances without the =
packet getting further IP fragmented by intervening routers (assuming =
you don't have any other VPN tunnels etc in the path).

2) Packet/fragment reordering is not really an issue for CAPWAP (and I =
agree with you).

Thanks.

-Puneet=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:51 PM
To: Darren Loher; Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas =
Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

A couple of questions about the benefits of this application =
fragmentation just out of my ignorance.

1) Most commercial firewalls handles IP fragments well to an acceptable =
degree (I don't think anybody will buy one which does not) since =
fragmentation is common norm in IPv4. I guess it needs to be handled one =
way or another even by the non-commercial ones. Not sure why this issue =
is particular different for CAPWAP? If AC and APs are connected via =
routers in several hops (this may be a likely case that a firewall =
exists between the AC and APs), IPv4 fragmentation may still be =
encountered because IPv4 path MTU is not used widely as we'd like to.

2) Packet and fragment re-ordering are two different issues and should =
be handled differently. Packet re-ordering is an issue that application =
needs to handle if the order is important to it like RTP stream. The IP =
fragmentation is an IP layer issue and should be dealt with at IP layer. =
There should some solution today at IP layer. Not sure this is =
particularly important to CAPWAP.

Do I miss anything?

Changming=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Loher [mailto:dloher@rovingplanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:05 AM
To: Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; =
Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Thanks for the full explanation Puneet.  With fragmentation done at the =
application (CAPWAP/LWAPP) layer this means every frame must have a =
LWAPP header. =20

I agree that this is especially important to get right as Pat pointed =
out that tunneled data packets will commonly need to be fragmented. =20

I another reason it's important not to have a standard IP stack =
reassemble frames is due to possible packet/fragment reordering.  If the =
network were to reorder the CAPWAP/LWAPP UDP tunnel packets for any =
reason, it would result in corrupting the data frames inside the tunnel. =
 We need the FragID field of the LWAPP/CAPWAP header to help us there.   =


-Darren

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:52 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> Just to remove any confusion, by application level fragmentation, I=20
> mean the LWAPP level fragmentation (as LWAPP is the application from=20
> the UDP/IP transport perspective). Hopefully this answers your =
question Sujoy.
>=20
> Hence the proposal is to fragment the wireless frame at the LWAPP=20
> level (F, L, Frag-Id would be valid - even for UDP/IP transport)=20
> before encapsulating the wireless frame in the transport (UDP/IP)=20
> headers (just like it is proposed in the spec for L2 transport).
>=20
> So conceptually LWAPP/CAPWAP should be agnostic of transport and=20
> assumes that the transport does not support fragmentation. This gets=20
> rid of the middlebox problem (for IP fragments) and is architecturally =
clean too.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -Puneet
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:28 AM
> To: sujay; Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have control over=20
> adding LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform=20
> fragmentation, and add an independent header, would allow for any=20
> middlebox (including
> firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of fragmentated frames is=20
> certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized frames), I agree with=20
> Puneet's recommendation.
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> > To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';=20
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> >
> > Hi Vishwas,
> >
> > The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2 transport.
> >
> > Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially because=20
> > the lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
> >
> > If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application has to take =

> > care of re-assembly.
> > There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> > Additionally a few more fields may be required !
> >
> > Puneet,
> > IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/ assembly to=20
> > the application.
> >
> > If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp header  in =

> > all fragments..??
> >
> > Regds,
> > Sujay
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> > To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> >
> > Hi Puneet,
> >
> > One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is already stated =

> > that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at
> > "IPv6 level"
> > I meant.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > Hi Puneet,
> >
> > I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
> >
> > I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do=20
> > fragmentation at LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery and =

> > hence fragments can be done at the application level itself. I think =

> > only if Path MTU discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid =
fragmentation.
> >
> > Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only valid=20
> > for
> > Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> > To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most firewalls =

> > drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also=20
> > refers to that). Hence the question.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft For L3 transport,=20
> > as the spec says, only the first IP fragment would have an LWAPP =
header.
> > Standard IP reassembly is used to put the fragments together.=A0 F, =
L,=20
> > and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are not neeed for reassembly.
> >
> > Am I missing something ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > =A0=A0 Abhijit
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft Question of IPv4=20
> > frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> >
> > There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the=20
> > fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP=20
> > fragments.
> > In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for
> > L3 transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> >
> > My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at application=20
> > level.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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>=20
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--------------AttPart_91104495==.OLA--



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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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From: "Darren Loher" <dloher@rovingplanet.com>
To: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>,
        "Changming Liu" <cliu@juniper.net>,
        "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
        "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>, "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
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Opps, dumb me, the 'fragment offset' in the standard IP header let's one =
reassemble IP fragments in the proper order. =20

So the only reason for fragmenting at the LWAPP/CAPWAP layer is avoid IP =
layer fragments because middleboxes are commonly configured to drop IP =
fragments.  In addition, since it is almost certain that fragmentation =
will need to occur on CAPWAP/LWAPP tunneled data packets, it is better =
to fragment the packets before they reach the IP layer.

I will be quiet now.  :)

-Darren

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 2:55 PM
> To: Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; =
Vishwas
> Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi Changming,
>=20
> 1) Each transport tunnel has an MTU. If you know that you are going to =
be
> exceeding that MTU when encapsulating the wireless frame, then it is
> better to fragment at the LWAPP/CAPWAP level to avoid IP fragments =
(when
> UDP/IP is the transport). It is not a question of whether middleboxes =
(eg:
> firewalls) can handle IP fragments or not (I assume that most can but
> there are of course legacy issues) - but the most common configuration =
of
> these deployed middleboxes is to drop IP fragments.
>=20
> If routers in the path of the WTP and AC want to IP fragment, then =
that is
> definitely allowed and valid (with the caveat that some middleboxes =
might
> drop these fragmented pkts). Even if path MTU discovery is not done, =
one
> could argue that setting the UDP/IP transport MTU to (1500-20-8)=3D =
1472
> would work under most circumstances without the packet getting further =
IP
> fragmented by intervening routers (assuming you don't have any other =
VPN
> tunnels etc in the path).
>=20
> 2) Packet/fragment reordering is not really an issue for CAPWAP (and I
> agree with you).
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -Puneet
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:51 PM
> To: Darren Loher; Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; =
Vishwas
> Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> A couple of questions about the benefits of this application =
fragmentation
> just out of my ignorance.
>=20
> 1) Most commercial firewalls handles IP fragments well to an =
acceptable
> degree (I don't think anybody will buy one which does not) since
> fragmentation is common norm in IPv4. I guess it needs to be handled =
one
> way or another even by the non-commercial ones. Not sure why this =
issue is
> particular different for CAPWAP? If AC and APs are connected via =
routers
> in several hops (this may be a likely case that a firewall exists =
between
> the AC and APs), IPv4 fragmentation may still be encountered because =
IPv4
> path MTU is not used widely as we'd like to.
>=20
> 2) Packet and fragment re-ordering are two different issues and should =
be
> handled differently. Packet re-ordering is an issue that application =
needs
> to handle if the order is important to it like RTP stream. The IP
> fragmentation is an IP layer issue and should be dealt with at IP =
layer.
> There should some solution today at IP layer. Not sure this is
> particularly important to CAPWAP.
>=20
> Do I miss anything?
>=20
> Changming
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Loher [mailto:dloher@rovingplanet.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:05 AM
> To: Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; =
Abhijit
> Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Thanks for the full explanation Puneet.  With fragmentation done at =
the
> application (CAPWAP/LWAPP) layer this means every frame must have a =
LWAPP
> header.
>=20
> I agree that this is especially important to get right as Pat pointed =
out
> that tunneled data packets will commonly need to be fragmented.
>=20
> I another reason it's important not to have a standard IP stack =
reassemble
> frames is due to possible packet/fragment reordering.  If the network =
were
> to reorder the CAPWAP/LWAPP UDP tunnel packets for any reason, it =
would
> result in corrupting the data frames inside the tunnel.  We need the
> FragID field of the LWAPP/CAPWAP header to help us there.
>=20
> -Darren
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:52 AM
> > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit =
Choudhury;
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Just to remove any confusion, by application level fragmentation, I
> > mean the LWAPP level fragmentation (as LWAPP is the application from
> > the UDP/IP transport perspective). Hopefully this answers your =
question
> Sujoy.
> >
> > Hence the proposal is to fragment the wireless frame at the LWAPP
> > level (F, L, Frag-Id would be valid - even for UDP/IP transport)
> > before encapsulating the wireless frame in the transport (UDP/IP)
> > headers (just like it is proposed in the spec for L2 transport).
> >
> > So conceptually LWAPP/CAPWAP should be agnostic of transport and
> > assumes that the transport does not support fragmentation. This gets
> > rid of the middlebox problem (for IP fragments) and is =
architecturally
> clean too.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:28 AM
> > To: sujay; Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have control over
> > adding LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform
> > fragmentation, and add an independent header, would allow for any
> > middlebox (including
> > firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of fragmentated frames is
> > certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized frames), I agree with
> > Puneet's recommendation.
> >
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> > > To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';
> > > capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Vishwas,
> > >
> > > The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2 =
transport.
> > >
> > > Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially because
> > > the lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
> > >
> > > If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application has to =
take
> > > care of re-assembly.
> > > There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> > > Additionally a few more fields may be required !
> > >
> > > Puneet,
> > > IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/ assembly =
to
> > > the application.
> > >
> > > If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp header  =
in
> > > all fragments..??
> > >
> > > Regds,
> > > Sujay
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> > > To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;
> > > capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Puneet,
> > >
> > > One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is already =
stated
> > > that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at
> > > "IPv6 level"
> > > I meant.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Vishwas
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> > > To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > > Hi Puneet,
> > >
> > > I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
> > >
> > > I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do
> > > fragmentation at LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery =
and
> > > hence fragments can be done at the application level itself. I =
think
> > > only if Path MTU discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid
> fragmentation.
> > >
> > > Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only =
valid
> > > for
> > > Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Vishwas
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> > > To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > > The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most =
firewalls
> > > drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also
> > > refers to that). Hence the question.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > -Puneet
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> > > To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft For L3 transport,
> > > as the spec says, only the first IP fragment would have an LWAPP
> header.
> > > Standard IP reassembly is used to put the fragments together.=A0 =
F, L,
> > > and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are not neeed for =
reassembly.
> > >
> > > Am I missing something ?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > =A0=A0 Abhijit
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> > > To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > > Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft Question of IPv4
> > > frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> > >
> > > There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the
> > > fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP
> > > fragments.
> > > In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even =
for
> > > L3 transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> > >
> > > My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at =
application
> > > level.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > -Puneet
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20

_________________________________________________________________
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Jan 05 19:50:52 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 16:49:58 -0800
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From: "Changming Liu" <cliu@juniper.net>
To: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>,
        "Darren Loher" <dloher@rovingplanet.com>,
        "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
        "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>, "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
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Hi Puneet,

Thanks for your quick reply. One thing I am confused about is the =
definition of a tunnel vs. a UDP application. Traditionally running an =
application on UDP/IP then over some kind of layer 2 is not defined as a =
tunnel rather just a  normal UDP application. Otherwise, DNS, RTP, SIP =
or any application on top of UDP will become a tunnel instead of an =
application. So is CAPWAP an application of UDP or UDP/IP is tunnel to =
CAPWAP? As a application, it is usually does not deal with fragmentation =
issue because it deems it as IP layer issue. Otherwise, each application =
will have its own built-in fragmentation algorithm and this will defeat =
the purpose of having fragmentation functionality at IP layer. As a =
tunnel, a MTU may be optionally defined to avoid tunneled packet =
fragmentation. But my experience with IPsec tunnel tells me that =
sometimes the pre and post encapsulation are both needed to be supported =
at the same time unless the MTU of entire path of a tunnel is known.  =
The "transport tunnel" is a definitely interesting definition. Not sure =
where this fits in.

The reason I talked about the tunnel vs application is that your answer =
to the fragmentation requirement is different from Pat's. His answer is =
about the middle box. Having worked on the firewall business for several =
years, I have hardly come across any middle box (firewall) to be =
configured to drop the fragmented IP packets. The customers or end users =
will screen at the IT if they chose to do that :-) Who knows how many =
layers of encap a packet will be subjected to after many layers of =
tunneling? Just for an example, IP over GRE over IPsec.... Whatever =
running on the inner IP may be encapsulated with its own layers of =
tunnels.... As having been pointed out, the fragmentation is not =
avoidable in today's networks, simply dropping it is usually not an =
option at all for any serious and real deployment. This may be true for =
some old stateless packet filtering firewalls. Not sure how many really =
still be deployed there.

Changming


-----Original Message-----
From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:55 PM
To: Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas =
Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Hi Changming,

1) Each transport tunnel has an MTU. If you know that you are going to =
be exceeding that MTU when encapsulating the wireless frame, then it is =
better to fragment at the LWAPP/CAPWAP level to avoid IP fragments (when =
UDP/IP is the transport). It is not a question of whether middleboxes =
(eg: firewalls) can handle IP fragments or not (I assume that most can =
but there are of course legacy issues) - but the most common =
configuration of these deployed middleboxes is to drop IP fragments.

If routers in the path of the WTP and AC want to IP fragment, then that =
is definitely allowed and valid (with the caveat that some middleboxes =
might drop these fragmented pkts). Even if path MTU discovery is not =
done, one could argue that setting the UDP/IP transport MTU to =
(1500-20-8)=3D 1472 would work under most circumstances without the =
packet getting further IP fragmented by intervening routers (assuming =
you don't have any other VPN tunnels etc in the path).

2) Packet/fragment reordering is not really an issue for CAPWAP (and I =
agree with you).

Thanks.

-Puneet=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:51 PM
To: Darren Loher; Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas =
Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

A couple of questions about the benefits of this application =
fragmentation just out of my ignorance.

1) Most commercial firewalls handles IP fragments well to an acceptable =
degree (I don't think anybody will buy one which does not) since =
fragmentation is common norm in IPv4. I guess it needs to be handled one =
way or another even by the non-commercial ones. Not sure why this issue =
is particular different for CAPWAP? If AC and APs are connected via =
routers in several hops (this may be a likely case that a firewall =
exists between the AC and APs), IPv4 fragmentation may still be =
encountered because IPv4 path MTU is not used widely as we'd like to.

2) Packet and fragment re-ordering are two different issues and should =
be handled differently. Packet re-ordering is an issue that application =
needs to handle if the order is important to it like RTP stream. The IP =
fragmentation is an IP layer issue and should be dealt with at IP layer. =
There should some solution today at IP layer. Not sure this is =
particularly important to CAPWAP.

Do I miss anything?

Changming=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Loher [mailto:dloher@rovingplanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:05 AM
To: Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; =
Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Thanks for the full explanation Puneet.  With fragmentation done at the =
application (CAPWAP/LWAPP) layer this means every frame must have a =
LWAPP header. =20

I agree that this is especially important to get right as Pat pointed =
out that tunneled data packets will commonly need to be fragmented. =20

I another reason it's important not to have a standard IP stack =
reassemble frames is due to possible packet/fragment reordering.  If the =
network were to reorder the CAPWAP/LWAPP UDP tunnel packets for any =
reason, it would result in corrupting the data frames inside the tunnel. =
 We need the FragID field of the LWAPP/CAPWAP header to help us there.   =


-Darren

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:52 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> Just to remove any confusion, by application level fragmentation, I=20
> mean the LWAPP level fragmentation (as LWAPP is the application from=20
> the UDP/IP transport perspective). Hopefully this answers your =
question Sujoy.
>=20
> Hence the proposal is to fragment the wireless frame at the LWAPP=20
> level (F, L, Frag-Id would be valid - even for UDP/IP transport)=20
> before encapsulating the wireless frame in the transport (UDP/IP)=20
> headers (just like it is proposed in the spec for L2 transport).
>=20
> So conceptually LWAPP/CAPWAP should be agnostic of transport and=20
> assumes that the transport does not support fragmentation. This gets=20
> rid of the middlebox problem (for IP fragments) and is architecturally =
clean too.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -Puneet
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:28 AM
> To: sujay; Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have control over=20
> adding LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform=20
> fragmentation, and add an independent header, would allow for any=20
> middlebox (including
> firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of fragmentated frames is=20
> certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized frames), I agree with=20
> Puneet's recommendation.
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> > To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';=20
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> >
> > Hi Vishwas,
> >
> > The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2 transport.
> >
> > Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially because=20
> > the lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
> >
> > If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application has to take =

> > care of re-assembly.
> > There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> > Additionally a few more fields may be required !
> >
> > Puneet,
> > IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/ assembly to=20
> > the application.
> >
> > If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp header  in =

> > all fragments..??
> >
> > Regds,
> > Sujay
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> > To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> >
> > Hi Puneet,
> >
> > One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is already stated =

> > that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at
> > "IPv6 level"
> > I meant.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > Hi Puneet,
> >
> > I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
> >
> > I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do=20
> > fragmentation at LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery and =

> > hence fragments can be done at the application level itself. I think =

> > only if Path MTU discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid =
fragmentation.
> >
> > Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only valid=20
> > for
> > Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> > To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most firewalls =

> > drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also=20
> > refers to that). Hence the question.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft For L3 transport,=20
> > as the spec says, only the first IP fragment would have an LWAPP =
header.
> > Standard IP reassembly is used to put the fragments together.=A0 F, =
L,=20
> > and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are not neeed for reassembly.
> >
> > Am I missing something ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > =A0=A0 Abhijit
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft Question of IPv4=20
> > frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> >
> > There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the=20
> > fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP=20
> > fragments.
> > In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for
> > L3 transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> >
> > My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at application=20
> > level.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
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>=20
>=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:22:02 -0800
Message-ID: <F07F17B61B7FF545BC7D7E4BFBE15D2A015970DF@hadron.jnpr.net>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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From: "Changming Liu" <cliu@juniper.net>
To: "Darren Loher" <dloher@rovingplanet.com>,
        "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>,
        "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
        "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>, "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
        "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Put CAPWAP on a side for a moment, it sounds so strange when hearing the =
claim that " middleboxes are commonly configured to drop IP fragments.", =
especially after several time.  Is there any data to support this claim? =
If so, we may have a broken internet. How many of us use one type of =
tunnel or another to access the company network from home or on the =
road, not mention the side to side VPN? If this is the case, and "it is =
almost certain that fragmentation will need to occur on xyz tunneled =
data packets", and "most middle boxes are commonly configured to drop IP =
fragments", how can we access the company's network from home?

It is not a big deal whether CAPWAP supports fragmentation or not. =
Either way will work. But the underneath assumptions need to be =
convincing.

Changming

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Loher [mailto:dloher@rovingplanet.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:07 PM
To: Puneet Agarwal; Changming Liu; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; =
Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Opps, dumb me, the 'fragment offset' in the standard IP header let's one =
reassemble IP fragments in the proper order. =20

So the only reason for fragmenting at the LWAPP/CAPWAP layer is avoid IP =
layer fragments because middleboxes are commonly configured to drop IP =
fragments.  In addition, since it is almost certain that fragmentation =
will need to occur on CAPWAP/LWAPP tunneled data packets, it is better =
to fragment the packets before they reach the IP layer.

I will be quiet now.  :)

-Darren

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 2:55 PM
> To: Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; =
Vishwas
> Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi Changming,
>=20
> 1) Each transport tunnel has an MTU. If you know that you are going to =
be
> exceeding that MTU when encapsulating the wireless frame, then it is
> better to fragment at the LWAPP/CAPWAP level to avoid IP fragments =
(when
> UDP/IP is the transport). It is not a question of whether middleboxes =
(eg:
> firewalls) can handle IP fragments or not (I assume that most can but
> there are of course legacy issues) - but the most common configuration =
of
> these deployed middleboxes is to drop IP fragments.
>=20
> If routers in the path of the WTP and AC want to IP fragment, then =
that is
> definitely allowed and valid (with the caveat that some middleboxes =
might
> drop these fragmented pkts). Even if path MTU discovery is not done, =
one
> could argue that setting the UDP/IP transport MTU to (1500-20-8)=3D =
1472
> would work under most circumstances without the packet getting further =
IP
> fragmented by intervening routers (assuming you don't have any other =
VPN
> tunnels etc in the path).
>=20
> 2) Packet/fragment reordering is not really an issue for CAPWAP (and I
> agree with you).
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -Puneet
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:51 PM
> To: Darren Loher; Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; =
Vishwas
> Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> A couple of questions about the benefits of this application =
fragmentation
> just out of my ignorance.
>=20
> 1) Most commercial firewalls handles IP fragments well to an =
acceptable
> degree (I don't think anybody will buy one which does not) since
> fragmentation is common norm in IPv4. I guess it needs to be handled =
one
> way or another even by the non-commercial ones. Not sure why this =
issue is
> particular different for CAPWAP? If AC and APs are connected via =
routers
> in several hops (this may be a likely case that a firewall exists =
between
> the AC and APs), IPv4 fragmentation may still be encountered because =
IPv4
> path MTU is not used widely as we'd like to.
>=20
> 2) Packet and fragment re-ordering are two different issues and should =
be
> handled differently. Packet re-ordering is an issue that application =
needs
> to handle if the order is important to it like RTP stream. The IP
> fragmentation is an IP layer issue and should be dealt with at IP =
layer.
> There should some solution today at IP layer. Not sure this is
> particularly important to CAPWAP.
>=20
> Do I miss anything?
>=20
> Changming
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Loher [mailto:dloher@rovingplanet.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:05 AM
> To: Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; =
Abhijit
> Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Thanks for the full explanation Puneet.  With fragmentation done at =
the
> application (CAPWAP/LWAPP) layer this means every frame must have a =
LWAPP
> header.
>=20
> I agree that this is especially important to get right as Pat pointed =
out
> that tunneled data packets will commonly need to be fragmented.
>=20
> I another reason it's important not to have a standard IP stack =
reassemble
> frames is due to possible packet/fragment reordering.  If the network =
were
> to reorder the CAPWAP/LWAPP UDP tunnel packets for any reason, it =
would
> result in corrupting the data frames inside the tunnel.  We need the
> FragID field of the LWAPP/CAPWAP header to help us there.
>=20
> -Darren
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:52 AM
> > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit =
Choudhury;
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Just to remove any confusion, by application level fragmentation, I
> > mean the LWAPP level fragmentation (as LWAPP is the application from
> > the UDP/IP transport perspective). Hopefully this answers your =
question
> Sujoy.
> >
> > Hence the proposal is to fragment the wireless frame at the LWAPP
> > level (F, L, Frag-Id would be valid - even for UDP/IP transport)
> > before encapsulating the wireless frame in the transport (UDP/IP)
> > headers (just like it is proposed in the spec for L2 transport).
> >
> > So conceptually LWAPP/CAPWAP should be agnostic of transport and
> > assumes that the transport does not support fragmentation. This gets
> > rid of the middlebox problem (for IP fragments) and is =
architecturally
> clean too.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:28 AM
> > To: sujay; Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have control over
> > adding LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform
> > fragmentation, and add an independent header, would allow for any
> > middlebox (including
> > firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of fragmentated frames is
> > certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized frames), I agree with
> > Puneet's recommendation.
> >
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> > > To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';
> > > capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Vishwas,
> > >
> > > The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2 =
transport.
> > >
> > > Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially because
> > > the lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
> > >
> > > If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application has to =
take
> > > care of re-assembly.
> > > There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> > > Additionally a few more fields may be required !
> > >
> > > Puneet,
> > > IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/ assembly =
to
> > > the application.
> > >
> > > If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp header  =
in
> > > all fragments..??
> > >
> > > Regds,
> > > Sujay
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> > > To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;
> > > capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Puneet,
> > >
> > > One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is already =
stated
> > > that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at
> > > "IPv6 level"
> > > I meant.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Vishwas
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> > > To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > > Hi Puneet,
> > >
> > > I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
> > >
> > > I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do
> > > fragmentation at LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery =
and
> > > hence fragments can be done at the application level itself. I =
think
> > > only if Path MTU discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid
> fragmentation.
> > >
> > > Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only =
valid
> > > for
> > > Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Vishwas
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> > > To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > > The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most =
firewalls
> > > drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also
> > > refers to that). Hence the question.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > -Puneet
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> > > To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft For L3 transport,
> > > as the spec says, only the first IP fragment would have an LWAPP
> header.
> > > Standard IP reassembly is used to put the fragments together.=A0 =
F, L,
> > > and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are not neeed for =
reassembly.
> > >
> > > Am I missing something ?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > =A0=A0 Abhijit
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> > > To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > > Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft Question of IPv4
> > > frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> > >
> > > There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the
> > > fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP
> > > fragments.
> > > In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even =
for
> > > L3 transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> > >
> > > My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at =
application
> > > level.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > -Puneet
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
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> > >
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> >
> >
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It is probably an exaggeration to say that that firewalls are commonly 
set to drop all IP fragmented packets.
It is however common in the particular case of dealing with teardrop 
attacks.
These attacks break up the malevolent packet in tiny fragments that the 
content of the packet cannot be determined.
If the firewall does not have enough data to classify the first fragment 
of a packet then it will drop it (firewalls cannot assemble).

Raouf

Changming Liu wrote:

>Put CAPWAP on a side for a moment, it sounds so strange when hearing the claim that " middleboxes are commonly configured to drop IP fragments.", especially after several time.  Is there any data to support this claim? If so, we may have a broken internet. How many of us use one type of tunnel or another to access the company network from home or on the road, not mention the side to side VPN? If this is the case, and "it is almost certain that fragmentation will need to occur on xyz tunneled data packets", and "most middle boxes are commonly configured to drop IP fragments", how can we access the company's network from home?
>
>It is not a big deal whether CAPWAP supports fragmentation or not. Either way will work. But the underneath assumptions need to be convincing.
>
>Changming
>
>  
>


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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 21:03:13 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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From: "Changming Liu" <cliu@juniper.net>
To: "Raouf Eldeeb" <reldeeb@broadcom.com>
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Teardrop is a special attack by overlaying the fragment offset to cause
the server reassembling buffer overflow. Thus this attack has its
"signature" and only fragments match its signature will be dropped
instead dropping all fragments blindly by the firewall.

There are other fragmentation attacks and stateful firewalls are usually
designed to be a little smarter to prevent such attacks other than just
simply dropping all the fragmented packets by keeping some states of the
fragments. =20

Because this is not a firewall related working group, without getting
into more specific issues of fragment attack prevention techniques,
getting around the middle box may not be strong enough reason, if this
is the only one, why the fragmentation should be supported by the
CAPWAP.=20

The real problem facing CAPWAP/LWAPP when dealing with the firewall
traversal is the " 6.2.4  WTP Manager Data IPv4 Address " option. To
support this option, an ALG on the firewall/NAT device is required
pretty much like FTP control/data case or SIP/RTP case. W/o it, this
option won't work. Are there any alternative proposals to this?


Changming
 =20
-----Original Message-----
From: Raouf Eldeeb [mailto:reldeeb@broadcom.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 5:43 PM
To: Changming Liu
Cc: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

It is probably an exaggeration to say that that firewalls are commonly=20
set to drop all IP fragmented packets.
It is however common in the particular case of dealing with teardrop=20
attacks.
These attacks break up the malevolent packet in tiny fragments that the=20
content of the packet cannot be determined.
If the firewall does not have enough data to classify the first fragment

of a packet then it will drop it (firewalls cannot assemble).

Raouf

Changming Liu wrote:

>Put CAPWAP on a side for a moment, it sounds so strange when hearing
the claim that " middleboxes are commonly configured to drop IP
fragments.", especially after several time.  Is there any data to
support this claim? If so, we may have a broken internet. How many of us
use one type of tunnel or another to access the company network from
home or on the road, not mention the side to side VPN? If this is the
case, and "it is almost certain that fragmentation will need to occur on
xyz tunneled data packets", and "most middle boxes are commonly
configured to drop IP fragments", how can we access the company's
network from home?
>
>It is not a big deal whether CAPWAP supports fragmentation or not.
Either way will work. But the underneath assumptions need to be
convincing.
>
>Changming
>
> =20
>
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From myki@asiana.co.kr Sun Jan 08 07:37:57 2006
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--------=206482634692867--




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Hi Changming,

(a) For CAPWAP data frames (C=3D0), you are "tunneling" wireless client =
frames inside the CAPWAP hdr (between the AC and WTP). Hence from the =
perspective of the wireless client frames - they are tunneled inside a =
CAPWAP/UDP/IP between WTP<-->AC. This CAPWAP/UDP/IP could be called the =
"transport tunnel" from the perspective of the wireless client frames.

>From the perspective of UDP, the UDP port numbers generally defines the =
application (in this case CAPWAP). Hence from the perspective of UDP, =
CAPWAP is an application.

So tunnel and UDP application are not mutually exclusive (it is a =
question of which layer's perspective one is talking about).

(b) I took Pat's comments to agree with my statements. Both he and I =
seem to be talking about fragmenting at the CAPWAP level before =
attaching a UDP/IP header. Maybe Pat can elaborate more on this.

Thanks.

-Puneet=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:50 PM
To: Puneet Agarwal; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas =
Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Hi Puneet,

Thanks for your quick reply. One thing I am confused about is the =
definition of a tunnel vs. a UDP application. Traditionally running an =
application on UDP/IP then over some kind of layer 2 is not defined as a =
tunnel rather just a  normal UDP application. Otherwise, DNS, RTP, SIP =
or any application on top of UDP will become a tunnel instead of an =
application. So is CAPWAP an application of UDP or UDP/IP is tunnel to =
CAPWAP? As a application, it is usually does not deal with fragmentation =
issue because it deems it as IP layer issue. Otherwise, each application =
will have its own built-in fragmentation algorithm and this will defeat =
the purpose of having fragmentation functionality at IP layer. As a =
tunnel, a MTU may be optionally defined to avoid tunneled packet =
fragmentation. But my experience with IPsec tunnel tells me that =
sometimes the pre and post encapsulation are both needed to be supported =
at the same time unless the MTU of entire path of a tunnel is known.  =
The "transport tunnel" is a definitely interesting definition. Not sure =
where this fits in.

The reason I talked about the tunnel vs application is that your answer =
to the fragmentation requirement is different from Pat's. His answer is =
about the middle box. Having worked on the firewall business for several =
years, I have hardly come across any middle box (firewall) to be =
configured to drop the fragmented IP packets. The customers or end users =
will screen at the IT if they chose to do that :-) Who knows how many =
layers of encap a packet will be subjected to after many layers of =
tunneling? Just for an example, IP over GRE over IPsec.... Whatever =
running on the inner IP may be encapsulated with its own layers of =
tunnels.... As having been pointed out, the fragmentation is not =
avoidable in today's networks, simply dropping it is usually not an =
option at all for any serious and real deployment. This may be true for =
some old stateless packet filtering firewalls. Not sure how many really =
still be deployed there.

Changming


-----Original Message-----
From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:55 PM
To: Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas =
Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Hi Changming,

1) Each transport tunnel has an MTU. If you know that you are going to =
be exceeding that MTU when encapsulating the wireless frame, then it is =
better to fragment at the LWAPP/CAPWAP level to avoid IP fragments (when =
UDP/IP is the transport). It is not a question of whether middleboxes =
(eg: firewalls) can handle IP fragments or not (I assume that most can =
but there are of course legacy issues) - but the most common =
configuration of these deployed middleboxes is to drop IP fragments.

If routers in the path of the WTP and AC want to IP fragment, then that =
is definitely allowed and valid (with the caveat that some middleboxes =
might drop these fragmented pkts). Even if path MTU discovery is not =
done, one could argue that setting the UDP/IP transport MTU to =
(1500-20-8)=3D 1472 would work under most circumstances without the =
packet getting further IP fragmented by intervening routers (assuming =
you don't have any other VPN tunnels etc in the path).

2) Packet/fragment reordering is not really an issue for CAPWAP (and I =
agree with you).

Thanks.

-Puneet=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:51 PM
To: Darren Loher; Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas =
Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

A couple of questions about the benefits of this application =
fragmentation just out of my ignorance.

1) Most commercial firewalls handles IP fragments well to an acceptable =
degree (I don't think anybody will buy one which does not) since =
fragmentation is common norm in IPv4. I guess it needs to be handled one =
way or another even by the non-commercial ones. Not sure why this issue =
is particular different for CAPWAP? If AC and APs are connected via =
routers in several hops (this may be a likely case that a firewall =
exists between the AC and APs), IPv4 fragmentation may still be =
encountered because IPv4 path MTU is not used widely as we'd like to.

2) Packet and fragment re-ordering are two different issues and should =
be handled differently. Packet re-ordering is an issue that application =
needs to handle if the order is important to it like RTP stream. The IP =
fragmentation is an IP layer issue and should be dealt with at IP layer. =
There should some solution today at IP layer. Not sure this is =
particularly important to CAPWAP.

Do I miss anything?

Changming=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Loher [mailto:dloher@rovingplanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:05 AM
To: Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; =
Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Thanks for the full explanation Puneet.  With fragmentation done at the =
application (CAPWAP/LWAPP) layer this means every frame must have a =
LWAPP header. =20

I agree that this is especially important to get right as Pat pointed =
out that tunneled data packets will commonly need to be fragmented. =20

I another reason it's important not to have a standard IP stack =
reassemble frames is due to possible packet/fragment reordering.  If the =
network were to reorder the CAPWAP/LWAPP UDP tunnel packets for any =
reason, it would result in corrupting the data frames inside the tunnel. =
 We need the FragID field of the LWAPP/CAPWAP header to help us there.   =


-Darren

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:52 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> Just to remove any confusion, by application level fragmentation, I=20
> mean the LWAPP level fragmentation (as LWAPP is the application from=20
> the UDP/IP transport perspective). Hopefully this answers your =
question Sujoy.
>=20
> Hence the proposal is to fragment the wireless frame at the LWAPP=20
> level (F, L, Frag-Id would be valid - even for UDP/IP transport)=20
> before encapsulating the wireless frame in the transport (UDP/IP)=20
> headers (just like it is proposed in the spec for L2 transport).
>=20
> So conceptually LWAPP/CAPWAP should be agnostic of transport and=20
> assumes that the transport does not support fragmentation. This gets=20
> rid of the middlebox problem (for IP fragments) and is architecturally =
clean too.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -Puneet
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:28 AM
> To: sujay; Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have control over=20
> adding LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform=20
> fragmentation, and add an independent header, would allow for any=20
> middlebox (including
> firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of fragmentated frames is=20
> certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized frames), I agree with=20
> Puneet's recommendation.
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> > To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';=20
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> >
> > Hi Vishwas,
> >
> > The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2 transport.
> >
> > Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially because=20
> > the lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
> >
> > If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application has to take =

> > care of re-assembly.
> > There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> > Additionally a few more fields may be required !
> >
> > Puneet,
> > IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/ assembly to=20
> > the application.
> >
> > If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp header  in =

> > all fragments..??
> >
> > Regds,
> > Sujay
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> > To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> >
> > Hi Puneet,
> >
> > One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is already stated =

> > that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at
> > "IPv6 level"
> > I meant.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > Hi Puneet,
> >
> > I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
> >
> > I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do=20
> > fragmentation at LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery and =

> > hence fragments can be done at the application level itself. I think =

> > only if Path MTU discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid =
fragmentation.
> >
> > Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only valid=20
> > for
> > Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> > To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most firewalls =

> > drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also=20
> > refers to that). Hence the question.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft For L3 transport,=20
> > as the spec says, only the first IP fragment would have an LWAPP =
header.
> > Standard IP reassembly is used to put the fragments together.=A0 F, =
L,=20
> > and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are not neeed for reassembly.
> >
> > Am I missing something ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > =A0=A0 Abhijit
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft Question of IPv4=20
> > frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> >
> > There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the=20
> > fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP=20
> > fragments.
> > In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for
> > L3 transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> >
> > My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at application=20
> > level.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap


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Subject: Re: oilcloth  Meidicatiobns
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VA  IUM
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Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:56:48 -0600
From: "Lucinda Fontenot" <junie56@email.msn.com>
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Subject: Mortagge ratee approvedd
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<a href="http://www.v1ckb1ke34.com/ax"><img alt="" src="cid:2.0.0.00.0.77820579255480.05489798@ross.yahoo.com.4"></a><br>
some townsend and omen the cia it midget
, orb not enormous it moreland and badinage
, candlestick it's litigant on prank may spheroid
try shasta see shinto Or maybe <a
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] Comments on CAPWAP protocol - based on LWAPP v03
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There are a couple of issues that I would like bring up for discussion based
on my review of LWAPP v03. 

Page 29, Section 4.2.1.1. Would it make sense to label a range of message
types as "reserved" and/or "vendor specific"?
Vendor Specific would require some additional mechanism, such as the OID. I
think we need to address vendor specific message type. The question is how?

Page 99, Section 11.7.1.1. Is there any way to provision TSPEC's for the
STA? Or would they be done on the AC?
The LWAPP protocol specification implies that Local MAC would be done at the
WTP and  Split MAC would be done at the AC. In the split MAC case, the TSpec
info could be sent to the WTP  in order to allow it to remark northbound
packets based on the TSpec, but this would add complexity, and is not there
today. Does this make sense to do?

Page 102, Section 11.7.2.1. The statistics element does not include counts
of management messages: Assoc, Auth, Dissassociate, Deauth, etc. We assume
that these message counts would be tracked by the AC. Is that correct? How
would this work in a local MAC case? What about traffic count information in
a local MAC case? For that matter, we need to decide what statistics are
tracked and how they are tracked for both split MAC and local MAC
implementations.

Cheers,

	Mike
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<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">40 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$159.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$849.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$169.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$1&nbsp;999.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$259.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$3&nbsp;099.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$299.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style="font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
<br>
Clothes and manners do not make the man but when he is made, they greatly improve his appearance<br>
Time and money spent in helping men to do more for themselves is far better than mere giving.Heaven will be inherited by every man who has heaven in his soul.
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Good morning sir,

Amazing, Stephan-> http://wldjwk.globaltrademarine.info/?qfepggxwpqqygsrpvczpoedffag

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in byword a potassium ! spate try yorktown
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--------------JavaMail.942015912871--



From lilasian@geocities.com Thu Jan 12 21:01:14 2006
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Message-ID: <63886@grenoble>
From: Melody York <lilasian@geocities.com>
To: capwap-archive@ietf.org
Subject: Amazing, Kelley
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:09:34 -0500
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<body>
<div style="margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; border: 3px solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style="font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style="border-collapse: collapse; background-color: #ffd; width: 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your local drugstore*</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our price</b></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: #ffa;" rowspan="6" align="center" valign="middle"><p style="font-size: 14pt; text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a href="http://luwawc.pinkocean.net/?vbbvhhxwpqqyfmmempzpokeglgl" style="text-decoration: none;">Learn<br>More<br>Now</a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$149.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$119.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">40 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$159.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$849.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$169.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$1&nbsp;999.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$259.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$3&nbsp;099.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$299.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style="font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
<br>
In bad fortune hold out, in good hold in.How many famous and high-spirited heroes have lived a day too long?<br>
Be the green grass above me, with showers and dewdrops wet and if thou wilt, remember, and if thou wilt, forget.
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Good morning sir,

Amazing, Audrey-> http://luwawc.pinkocean.net/?vbbvhhxwpqqyfmmempzpokeglgl

--------=892044067620--






From surfeur@earthlink.net Fri Jan 13 02:05:39 2006
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To: capwap-archive@ietf.org
Subject: Amazing, Sherry
From: Gilberto Champagne <surfeur@earthlink.net>
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</head>
<body>
<div style="margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; border: 3px solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style="font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style="border-collapse: collapse; background-color: #ffd; width: 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your local drugstore*</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our price</b></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: #ffa;" rowspan="6" align="center" valign="middle"><p style="font-size: 14pt; text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a href="http://contacroca.com/?a=1065" style="text-decoration: none;">Learn<br>More<br>Now</a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$149.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$119.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">40 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$159.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$849.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$169.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$1&nbsp;999.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$259.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 softtabs</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike style="color: #777;">$3&nbsp;099.95</strike></td>
<td style="border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span style="color: #900;"><b>$299.95</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style="font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
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Good morning sir,

Amazing, Rodrick-> http://contacroca.com/?a=1065

--------=1087728678751--





From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Jan 13 12:39:02 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:54:24 -0500
Message-ID: <5844A41F4E146044A2E8356C632858800A7A2E40@nj7460avexu2.global.avaya.com>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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From: "Sadot, Emek (Emek)" <esadot@avaya.com>
To: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>,
        "Changming Liu" <cliu@juniper.net>,
        "Darren Loher" <dloher@rovingplanet.com>,
        "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
        "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>, "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
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A question about former tunneling protocols architectures (just out of =
my ignorance): what is the landscape and motivations of other tunneling =
protocol that adopted a fragmentation at application level solution?

Out of curiosity, would it be fair to assume that most of the CAPWAP =
installations would be confined by a localized mobility domain were =
intermediate firewall is not likely to reside?

Regards,
Emek

-----Original Message-----
From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:29 PM
To: Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas =
Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Hi Changming,

(a) For CAPWAP data frames (C=3D0), you are "tunneling" wireless client =
frames inside the CAPWAP hdr (between the AC and WTP). Hence from the =
perspective of the wireless client frames - they are tunneled inside a =
CAPWAP/UDP/IP between WTP<-->AC. This CAPWAP/UDP/IP could be called the =
"transport tunnel" from the perspective of the wireless client frames.

>From the perspective of UDP, the UDP port numbers generally defines the =
application (in this case CAPWAP). Hence from the perspective of UDP, =
CAPWAP is an application.

So tunnel and UDP application are not mutually exclusive (it is a =
question of which layer's perspective one is talking about).

(b) I took Pat's comments to agree with my statements. Both he and I =
seem to be talking about fragmenting at the CAPWAP level before =
attaching a UDP/IP header. Maybe Pat can elaborate more on this.

Thanks.

-Puneet=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:50 PM
To: Puneet Agarwal; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas =
Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Hi Puneet,

Thanks for your quick reply. One thing I am confused about is the =
definition of a tunnel vs. a UDP application. Traditionally running an =
application on UDP/IP then over some kind of layer 2 is not defined as a =
tunnel rather just a  normal UDP application. Otherwise, DNS, RTP, SIP =
or any application on top of UDP will become a tunnel instead of an =
application. So is CAPWAP an application of UDP or UDP/IP is tunnel to =
CAPWAP? As a application, it is usually does not deal with fragmentation =
issue because it deems it as IP layer issue. Otherwise, each application =
will have its own built-in fragmentation algorithm and this will defeat =
the purpose of having fragmentation functionality at IP layer. As a =
tunnel, a MTU may be optionally defined to avoid tunneled packet =
fragmentation. But my experience with IPsec tunnel tells me that =
sometimes the pre and post encapsulation are both needed to be supported =
at the same time unless the MTU of entire path of a tunnel is known.  =
The "transport tunnel" is a definitely interesting definition. Not sure =
where this fits in.

The reason I talked about the tunnel vs application is that your answer =
to the fragmentation requirement is different from Pat's. His answer is =
about the middle box. Having worked on the firewall business for several =
years, I have hardly come across any middle box (firewall) to be =
configured to drop the fragmented IP packets. The customers or end users =
will screen at the IT if they chose to do that :-) Who knows how many =
layers of encap a packet will be subjected to after many layers of =
tunneling? Just for an example, IP over GRE over IPsec.... Whatever =
running on the inner IP may be encapsulated with its own layers of =
tunnels.... As having been pointed out, the fragmentation is not =
avoidable in today's networks, simply dropping it is usually not an =
option at all for any serious and real deployment. This may be true for =
some old stateless packet filtering firewalls. Not sure how many really =
still be deployed there.

Changming


-----Original Message-----
From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:55 PM
To: Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas =
Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Hi Changming,

1) Each transport tunnel has an MTU. If you know that you are going to =
be exceeding that MTU when encapsulating the wireless frame, then it is =
better to fragment at the LWAPP/CAPWAP level to avoid IP fragments (when =
UDP/IP is the transport). It is not a question of whether middleboxes =
(eg: firewalls) can handle IP fragments or not (I assume that most can =
but there are of course legacy issues) - but the most common =
configuration of these deployed middleboxes is to drop IP fragments.

If routers in the path of the WTP and AC want to IP fragment, then that =
is definitely allowed and valid (with the caveat that some middleboxes =
might drop these fragmented pkts). Even if path MTU discovery is not =
done, one could argue that setting the UDP/IP transport MTU to =
(1500-20-8)=3D 1472 would work under most circumstances without the =
packet getting further IP fragmented by intervening routers (assuming =
you don't have any other VPN tunnels etc in the path).

2) Packet/fragment reordering is not really an issue for CAPWAP (and I =
agree with you).

Thanks.

-Puneet=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:51 PM
To: Darren Loher; Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas =
Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

A couple of questions about the benefits of this application =
fragmentation just out of my ignorance.

1) Most commercial firewalls handles IP fragments well to an acceptable =
degree (I don't think anybody will buy one which does not) since =
fragmentation is common norm in IPv4. I guess it needs to be handled one =
way or another even by the non-commercial ones. Not sure why this issue =
is particular different for CAPWAP? If AC and APs are connected via =
routers in several hops (this may be a likely case that a firewall =
exists between the AC and APs), IPv4 fragmentation may still be =
encountered because IPv4 path MTU is not used widely as we'd like to.

2) Packet and fragment re-ordering are two different issues and should =
be handled differently. Packet re-ordering is an issue that application =
needs to handle if the order is important to it like RTP stream. The IP =
fragmentation is an IP layer issue and should be dealt with at IP layer. =
There should some solution today at IP layer. Not sure this is =
particularly important to CAPWAP.

Do I miss anything?

Changming=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Loher [mailto:dloher@rovingplanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:05 AM
To: Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; =
Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

Thanks for the full explanation Puneet.  With fragmentation done at the =
application (CAPWAP/LWAPP) layer this means every frame must have a =
LWAPP header. =20

I agree that this is especially important to get right as Pat pointed =
out that tunneled data packets will commonly need to be fragmented. =20

I another reason it's important not to have a standard IP stack =
reassemble frames is due to possible packet/fragment reordering.  If the =
network were to reorder the CAPWAP/LWAPP UDP tunnel packets for any =
reason, it would result in corrupting the data frames inside the tunnel. =
 We need the FragID field of the LWAPP/CAPWAP header to help us there.   =


-Darren

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:52 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> Just to remove any confusion, by application level fragmentation, I=20
> mean the LWAPP level fragmentation (as LWAPP is the application from=20
> the UDP/IP transport perspective). Hopefully this answers your =
question Sujoy.
>=20
> Hence the proposal is to fragment the wireless frame at the LWAPP=20
> level (F, L, Frag-Id would be valid - even for UDP/IP transport)=20
> before encapsulating the wireless frame in the transport (UDP/IP)=20
> headers (just like it is proposed in the spec for L2 transport).
>=20
> So conceptually LWAPP/CAPWAP should be agnostic of transport and=20
> assumes that the transport does not support fragmentation. This gets=20
> rid of the middlebox problem (for IP fragments) and is architecturally =
clean too.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -Puneet
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:28 AM
> To: sujay; Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have control over=20
> adding LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform=20
> fragmentation, and add an independent header, would allow for any=20
> middlebox (including
> firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of fragmentated frames is=20
> certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized frames), I agree with=20
> Puneet's recommendation.
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> > To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';=20
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> >
> > Hi Vishwas,
> >
> > The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2 transport.
> >
> > Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially because=20
> > the lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
> >
> > If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application has to take =

> > care of re-assembly.
> > There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> > Additionally a few more fields may be required !
> >
> > Puneet,
> > IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/ assembly to=20
> > the application.
> >
> > If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp header  in =

> > all fragments..??
> >
> > Regds,
> > Sujay
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> > To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> >
> > Hi Puneet,
> >
> > One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is already stated =

> > that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at
> > "IPv6 level"
> > I meant.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > Hi Puneet,
> >
> > I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
> >
> > I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do=20
> > fragmentation at LWAPP level because we have to do MTU discovery and =

> > hence fragments can be done at the application level itself. I think =

> > only if Path MTU discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we avoid =
fragmentation.
> >
> > Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were only valid=20
> > for
> > Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> > To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >
> > The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls. Most firewalls =

> > drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also=20
> > refers to that). Hence the question.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft For L3 transport,=20
> > as the spec says, only the first IP fragment would have an LWAPP =
header.
> > Standard IP reassembly is used to put the fragments together.=A0 F, =
L,=20
> > and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are not neeed for reassembly.
> >
> > Am I missing something ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > =A0=A0 Abhijit
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft Question of IPv4=20
> > frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> >
> > There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the=20
> > fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP=20
> > fragments.
> > In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be used even for
> > L3 transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> >
> > My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at application=20
> > level.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Puneet
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap


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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:43:53 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Sadot, Emek (Emek)" <esadot@avaya.com>,
        "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>,
        "Changming Liu" <cliu@juniper.net>,
        "Darren Loher" <dloher@rovingplanet.com>, "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>,
        "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
        "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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I'm aware of several of my customers using FWs to remote sites with =
WTPs.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sadot, Emek (Emek) [mailto:esadot@avaya.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 8:54 AM
> To: Puneet Agarwal; Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun=20
> (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> A question about former tunneling protocols architectures=20
> (just out of my ignorance): what is the landscape and=20
> motivations of other tunneling protocol that adopted a=20
> fragmentation at application level solution?
>=20
> Out of curiosity, would it be fair to assume that most of the=20
> CAPWAP installations would be confined by a localized=20
> mobility domain were intermediate firewall is not likely to reside?
>=20
> Regards,
> Emek
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:29 PM
> To: Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
> sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi Changming,
>=20
> (a) For CAPWAP data frames (C=3D0), you are "tunneling"=20
> wireless client frames inside the CAPWAP hdr (between the AC=20
> and WTP). Hence from the perspective of the wireless client=20
> frames - they are tunneled inside a CAPWAP/UDP/IP between=20
> WTP<-->AC. This CAPWAP/UDP/IP could be called the "transport=20
> tunnel" from the perspective of the wireless client frames.
>=20
> >From the perspective of UDP, the UDP port numbers generally=20
> defines the application (in this case CAPWAP). Hence from the=20
> perspective of UDP, CAPWAP is an application.
>=20
> So tunnel and UDP application are not mutually exclusive (it=20
> is a question of which layer's perspective one is talking about).
>=20
> (b) I took Pat's comments to agree with my statements. Both=20
> he and I seem to be talking about fragmenting at the CAPWAP=20
> level before attaching a UDP/IP header. Maybe Pat can=20
> elaborate more on this.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -Puneet=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:50 PM
> To: Puneet Agarwal; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
> sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi Puneet,
>=20
> Thanks for your quick reply. One thing I am confused about is=20
> the definition of a tunnel vs. a UDP application.=20
> Traditionally running an application on UDP/IP then over some=20
> kind of layer 2 is not defined as a tunnel rather just a =20
> normal UDP application. Otherwise, DNS, RTP, SIP or any=20
> application on top of UDP will become a tunnel instead of an=20
> application. So is CAPWAP an application of UDP or UDP/IP is=20
> tunnel to CAPWAP? As a application, it is usually does not=20
> deal with fragmentation issue because it deems it as IP layer=20
> issue. Otherwise, each application will have its own built-in=20
> fragmentation algorithm and this will defeat the purpose of=20
> having fragmentation functionality at IP layer. As a tunnel,=20
> a MTU may be optionally defined to avoid tunneled packet=20
> fragmentation. But my experience with IPsec tunnel tells me=20
> that sometimes the pre and post encapsulation are both needed=20
> to be supported at the same time unless the MTU of entire=20
> path of a tunnel is known.  The "transport tunnel" is a=20
> definitely interesting definition. Not sure where this fits in.
>=20
> The reason I talked about the tunnel vs application is that=20
> your answer to the fragmentation requirement is different=20
> from Pat's. His answer is about the middle box. Having worked=20
> on the firewall business for several years, I have hardly=20
> come across any middle box (firewall) to be configured to=20
> drop the fragmented IP packets. The customers or end users=20
> will screen at the IT if they chose to do that :-) Who knows=20
> how many layers of encap a packet will be subjected to after=20
> many layers of tunneling? Just for an example, IP over GRE=20
> over IPsec.... Whatever running on the inner IP may be=20
> encapsulated with its own layers of tunnels.... As having=20
> been pointed out, the fragmentation is not avoidable in=20
> today's networks, simply dropping it is usually not an option=20
> at all for any serious and real deployment. This may be true=20
> for some old stateless packet filtering firewalls. Not sure=20
> how many really still be deployed there.
>=20
> Changming
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:55 PM
> To: Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
> sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi Changming,
>=20
> 1) Each transport tunnel has an MTU. If you know that you are=20
> going to be exceeding that MTU when encapsulating the=20
> wireless frame, then it is better to fragment at the=20
> LWAPP/CAPWAP level to avoid IP fragments (when UDP/IP is the=20
> transport). It is not a question of whether middleboxes (eg:=20
> firewalls) can handle IP fragments or not (I assume that most=20
> can but there are of course legacy issues) - but the most=20
> common configuration of these deployed middleboxes is to drop=20
> IP fragments.
>=20
> If routers in the path of the WTP and AC want to IP fragment,=20
> then that is definitely allowed and valid (with the caveat=20
> that some middleboxes might drop these fragmented pkts). Even=20
> if path MTU discovery is not done, one could argue that=20
> setting the UDP/IP transport MTU to (1500-20-8)=3D 1472 would=20
> work under most circumstances without the packet getting=20
> further IP fragmented by intervening routers (assuming you=20
> don't have any other VPN tunnels etc in the path).
>=20
> 2) Packet/fragment reordering is not really an issue for=20
> CAPWAP (and I agree with you).
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -Puneet=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:51 PM
> To: Darren Loher; Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
> sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> A couple of questions about the benefits of this application=20
> fragmentation just out of my ignorance.
>=20
> 1) Most commercial firewalls handles IP fragments well to an=20
> acceptable degree (I don't think anybody will buy one which=20
> does not) since fragmentation is common norm in IPv4. I guess=20
> it needs to be handled one way or another even by the=20
> non-commercial ones. Not sure why this issue is particular=20
> different for CAPWAP? If AC and APs are connected via routers=20
> in several hops (this may be a likely case that a firewall=20
> exists between the AC and APs), IPv4 fragmentation may still=20
> be encountered because IPv4 path MTU is not used widely as=20
> we'd like to.
>=20
> 2) Packet and fragment re-ordering are two different issues=20
> and should be handled differently. Packet re-ordering is an=20
> issue that application needs to handle if the order is=20
> important to it like RTP stream. The IP fragmentation is an=20
> IP layer issue and should be dealt with at IP layer. There=20
> should some solution today at IP layer. Not sure this is=20
> particularly important to CAPWAP.
>=20
> Do I miss anything?
>=20
> Changming=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Loher [mailto:dloher@rovingplanet.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:05 AM
> To: Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas=20
> Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Thanks for the full explanation Puneet.  With fragmentation=20
> done at the application (CAPWAP/LWAPP) layer this means every=20
> frame must have a LWAPP header. =20
>=20
> I agree that this is especially important to get right as Pat=20
> pointed out that tunneled data packets will commonly need to=20
> be fragmented. =20
>=20
> I another reason it's important not to have a standard IP=20
> stack reassemble frames is due to possible packet/fragment=20
> reordering.  If the network were to reorder the CAPWAP/LWAPP=20
> UDP tunnel packets for any reason, it would result in=20
> corrupting the data frames inside the tunnel.  We need the=20
> FragID field of the LWAPP/CAPWAP header to help us there.  =20
>=20
> -Darren
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:52 AM
> > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit=20
> Choudhury;=20
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >=20
> > Hi All,
> >=20
> > Just to remove any confusion, by application level fragmentation, I=20
> > mean the LWAPP level fragmentation (as LWAPP is the=20
> application from=20
> > the UDP/IP transport perspective). Hopefully this answers=20
> your question Sujoy.
> >=20
> > Hence the proposal is to fragment the wireless frame at the LWAPP=20
> > level (F, L, Frag-Id would be valid - even for UDP/IP transport)=20
> > before encapsulating the wireless frame in the transport (UDP/IP)=20
> > headers (just like it is proposed in the spec for L2 transport).
> >=20
> > So conceptually LWAPP/CAPWAP should be agnostic of transport and=20
> > assumes that the transport does not support fragmentation.=20
> This gets=20
> > rid of the middlebox problem (for IP fragments) and is=20
> architecturally clean too.
> >=20
> > Thanks.
> >=20
> > -Puneet
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:28 AM
> > To: sujay; Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >=20
> > If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have control over=20
> > adding LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform=20
> > fragmentation, and add an independent header, would allow for any=20
> > middlebox (including
> > firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of fragmentated frames is=20
> > certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized frames), I agree with=20
> > Puneet's recommendation.
> >=20
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> > > To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';=20
> > > capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Vishwas,
> > >
> > > The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2=20
> transport.
> > >
> > > Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially because=20
> > > the lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
> > >
> > > If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application=20
> has to take=20
> > > care of re-assembly.
> > > There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> > > Additionally a few more fields may be required !
> > >
> > > Puneet,
> > > IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/=20
> assembly to=20
> > > the application.
> > >
> > > If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp=20
> header  in=20
> > > all fragments..??
> > >
> > > Regds,
> > > Sujay
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> > > To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> > > capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Puneet,
> > >
> > > One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is=20
> already stated=20
> > > that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at
> > > "IPv6 level"
> > > I meant.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Vishwas
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> > > To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > > Hi Puneet,
> > >
> > > I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
> > >
> > > I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do=20
> > > fragmentation at LWAPP level because we have to do MTU=20
> discovery and=20
> > > hence fragments can be done at the application level=20
> itself. I think=20
> > > only if Path MTU discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we=20
> avoid fragmentation.
> > >
> > > Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were=20
> only valid=20
> > > for
> > > Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Vishwas
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> > > To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > > The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls.=20
> Most firewalls=20
> > > drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also=20
> > > refers to that). Hence the question.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > -Puneet
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> > > To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft For L3=20
> transport,=20
> > > as the spec says, only the first IP fragment would have=20
> an LWAPP header.
> > > Standard IP reassembly is used to put the fragments=20
> together.=A0 F, L,=20
> > > and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are not neeed for=20
> reassembly.
> > >
> > > Am I missing something ?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > =A0=A0 Abhijit
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> > > To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > > Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft Question of IPv4=20
> > > frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> > >
> > > There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the=20
> > > fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP=20
> > > fragments.
> > > In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be=20
> used even for
> > > L3 transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> > >
> > > My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at=20
> application=20
> > > level.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > -Puneet
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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> > >
> >=20
> >=20
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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> >=20
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:58:17 -0500
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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From: "Sadot, Emek (Emek)" <esadot@avaya.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
        "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>,
        "Changming Liu" <cliu@juniper.net>,
        "Darren Loher" <dloher@rovingplanet.com>, "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>,
        "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
        "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Using a firewall seems as a reasonable choice for a topology where the =
AC and WTP are in separate geographical sites. The immediate follow up =
question that came in mind would be: does your solution employ a =
fragmentation scheme at the application level or let the IP transport =
layer handle it?

Another point is the use of VPN gateway. I'd think that it's rational to =
assume that the remote WTP is probably the only topology in which =
firewall make sense, thus wouldn't the VPN gateway at both ends moot the =
issue?

Regards,
Emek

-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 1:44 PM
To: Sadot, Emek (Emek); Puneet Agarwal; Changming Liu; Darren Loher; =
sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft

I'm aware of several of my customers using FWs to remote sites with =
WTPs.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sadot, Emek (Emek) [mailto:esadot@avaya.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 8:54 AM
> To: Puneet Agarwal; Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun=20
> (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> A question about former tunneling protocols architectures (just out of =

> my ignorance): what is the landscape and motivations of other=20
> tunneling protocol that adopted a fragmentation at application level=20
> solution?
>=20
> Out of curiosity, would it be fair to assume that most of the CAPWAP=20
> installations would be confined by a localized mobility domain were=20
> intermediate firewall is not likely to reside?
>=20
> Regards,
> Emek
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:29 PM
> To: Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay;=20
> Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi Changming,
>=20
> (a) For CAPWAP data frames (C=3D0), you are "tunneling"=20
> wireless client frames inside the CAPWAP hdr (between the AC and WTP). =

> Hence from the perspective of the wireless client frames - they are=20
> tunneled inside a CAPWAP/UDP/IP between WTP<-->AC. This CAPWAP/UDP/IP=20
> could be called the "transport tunnel" from the perspective of the=20
> wireless client frames.
>=20
> >From the perspective of UDP, the UDP port numbers generally
> defines the application (in this case CAPWAP). Hence from the=20
> perspective of UDP, CAPWAP is an application.
>=20
> So tunnel and UDP application are not mutually exclusive (it is a=20
> question of which layer's perspective one is talking about).
>=20
> (b) I took Pat's comments to agree with my statements. Both he and I=20
> seem to be talking about fragmenting at the CAPWAP level before=20
> attaching a UDP/IP header. Maybe Pat can elaborate more on this.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -Puneet
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:50 PM
> To: Puneet Agarwal; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay;=20
> Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi Puneet,
>=20
> Thanks for your quick reply. One thing I am confused about is the=20
> definition of a tunnel vs. a UDP application.
> Traditionally running an application on UDP/IP then over some kind of=20
> layer 2 is not defined as a tunnel rather just a normal UDP=20
> application. Otherwise, DNS, RTP, SIP or any application on top of UDP =

> will become a tunnel instead of an application. So is CAPWAP an=20
> application of UDP or UDP/IP is tunnel to CAPWAP? As a application, it =

> is usually does not deal with fragmentation issue because it deems it=20
> as IP layer issue. Otherwise, each application will have its own=20
> built-in fragmentation algorithm and this will defeat the purpose of=20
> having fragmentation functionality at IP layer. As a tunnel, a MTU may =

> be optionally defined to avoid tunneled packet fragmentation. But my=20
> experience with IPsec tunnel tells me that sometimes the pre and post=20
> encapsulation are both needed to be supported at the same time unless=20
> the MTU of entire path of a tunnel is known.  The "transport tunnel"=20
> is a definitely interesting definition. Not sure where this fits in.
>=20
> The reason I talked about the tunnel vs application is that your=20
> answer to the fragmentation requirement is different from Pat's. His=20
> answer is about the middle box. Having worked on the firewall business =

> for several years, I have hardly come across any middle box (firewall) =

> to be configured to drop the fragmented IP packets. The customers or=20
> end users will screen at the IT if they chose to do that :-) Who knows =

> how many layers of encap a packet will be subjected to after many=20
> layers of tunneling? Just for an example, IP over GRE over IPsec....=20
> Whatever running on the inner IP may be encapsulated with its own=20
> layers of tunnels.... As having been pointed out, the fragmentation is =

> not avoidable in today's networks, simply dropping it is usually not=20
> an option at all for any serious and real deployment. This may be true =

> for some old stateless packet filtering firewalls. Not sure how many=20
> really still be deployed there.
>=20
> Changming
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:55 PM
> To: Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay;=20
> Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Hi Changming,
>=20
> 1) Each transport tunnel has an MTU. If you know that you are going to =

> be exceeding that MTU when encapsulating the wireless frame, then it=20
> is better to fragment at the LWAPP/CAPWAP level to avoid IP fragments=20
> (when UDP/IP is the transport). It is not a question of whether=20
> middleboxes (eg:
> firewalls) can handle IP fragments or not (I assume that most can but=20
> there are of course legacy issues) - but the most common configuration =

> of these deployed middleboxes is to drop IP fragments.
>=20
> If routers in the path of the WTP and AC want to IP fragment, then=20
> that is definitely allowed and valid (with the caveat that some=20
> middleboxes might drop these fragmented pkts). Even if path MTU=20
> discovery is not done, one could argue that setting the UDP/IP=20
> transport MTU to (1500-20-8)=3D 1472 would work under most =
circumstances=20
> without the packet getting further IP fragmented by intervening=20
> routers (assuming you don't have any other VPN tunnels etc in the=20
> path).
>=20
> 2) Packet/fragment reordering is not really an issue for CAPWAP (and I =

> agree with you).
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -Puneet
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:51 PM
> To: Darren Loher; Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay;=20
> Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> A couple of questions about the benefits of this application=20
> fragmentation just out of my ignorance.
>=20
> 1) Most commercial firewalls handles IP fragments well to an=20
> acceptable degree (I don't think anybody will buy one which does not)=20
> since fragmentation is common norm in IPv4. I guess it needs to be=20
> handled one way or another even by the non-commercial ones. Not sure=20
> why this issue is particular different for CAPWAP? If AC and APs are=20
> connected via routers in several hops (this may be a likely case that=20
> a firewall exists between the AC and APs), IPv4 fragmentation may=20
> still be encountered because IPv4 path MTU is not used widely as we'd=20
> like to.
>=20
> 2) Packet and fragment re-ordering are two different issues and should =

> be handled differently. Packet re-ordering is an issue that=20
> application needs to handle if the order is important to it like RTP=20
> stream. The IP fragmentation is an IP layer issue and should be dealt=20
> with at IP layer. There should some solution today at IP layer. Not=20
> sure this is particularly important to CAPWAP.
>=20
> Do I miss anything?
>=20
> Changming
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Loher [mailto:dloher@rovingplanet.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:05 AM
> To: Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral;=20
> Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Thanks for the full explanation Puneet.  With fragmentation done at=20
> the application (CAPWAP/LWAPP) layer this means every frame must have=20
> a LWAPP header.
>=20
> I agree that this is especially important to get right as Pat pointed=20
> out that tunneled data packets will commonly need to be fragmented.
>=20
> I another reason it's important not to have a standard IP stack=20
> reassemble frames is due to possible packet/fragment reordering.  If=20
> the network were to reorder the CAPWAP/LWAPP UDP tunnel packets for=20
> any reason, it would result in corrupting the data frames inside the=20
> tunnel.  We need the
> FragID field of the LWAPP/CAPWAP header to help us there.  =20
>=20
> -Darren
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:52 AM
> > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit
> Choudhury;
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >=20
> > Hi All,
> >=20
> > Just to remove any confusion, by application level fragmentation, I=20
> > mean the LWAPP level fragmentation (as LWAPP is the
> application from
> > the UDP/IP transport perspective). Hopefully this answers
> your question Sujoy.
> >=20
> > Hence the proposal is to fragment the wireless frame at the LWAPP=20
> > level (F, L, Frag-Id would be valid - even for UDP/IP transport)=20
> > before encapsulating the wireless frame in the transport (UDP/IP)=20
> > headers (just like it is proposed in the spec for L2 transport).
> >=20
> > So conceptually LWAPP/CAPWAP should be agnostic of transport and=20
> > assumes that the transport does not support fragmentation.
> This gets
> > rid of the middlebox problem (for IP fragments) and is
> architecturally clean too.
> >=20
> > Thanks.
> >=20
> > -Puneet
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:28 AM
> > To: sujay; Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >=20
> > If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have control over=20
> > adding LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform=20
> > fragmentation, and add an independent header, would allow for any=20
> > middlebox (including
> > firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of fragmentated frames is=20
> > certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized frames), I agree with=20
> > Puneet's recommendation.
> >=20
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> > > To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';=20
> > > capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Vishwas,
> > >
> > > The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2
> transport.
> > >
> > > Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls, essentially because=20
> > > the lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
> > >
> > > If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application
> has to take
> > > care of re-assembly.
> > > There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> > > Additionally a few more fields may be required !
> > >
> > > Puneet,
> > > IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/
> assembly to
> > > the application.
> > >
> > > If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp
> header  in
> > > all fragments..??
> > >
> > > Regds,
> > > Sujay
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> > > To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> > > capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Puneet,
> > >
> > > One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is
> already stated
> > > that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at
> > > "IPv6 level"
> > > I meant.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Vishwas
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> > > To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > > Hi Puneet,
> > >
> > > I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
> > >
> > > I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do=20
> > > fragmentation at LWAPP level because we have to do MTU
> discovery and
> > > hence fragments can be done at the application level
> itself. I think
> > > only if Path MTU discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we
> avoid fragmentation.
> > >
> > > Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were
> only valid
> > > for
> > > Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Vishwas
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> > > To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >
> > > The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls.=20
> Most firewalls
> > > drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also=20
> > > refers to that). Hence the question.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > -Puneet
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> > > To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft For L3
> transport,
> > > as the spec says, only the first IP fragment would have
> an LWAPP header.
> > > Standard IP reassembly is used to put the fragments
> together.=A0 F, L,
> > > and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are not neeed for
> reassembly.
> > >
> > > Am I missing something ?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > =A0=A0 Abhijit
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> > > To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > > Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft Question of IPv4=20
> > > frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> > >
> > > There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the=20
> > > fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP=20
> > > fragments.
> > > In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be
> used even for
> > > L3 transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> > >
> > > My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at
> application
> > > level.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > -Puneet
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >
> >=20
> >=20
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >=20
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Sadot, Emek (Emek)" <esadot@avaya.com>,
        "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>,
        "Changming Liu" <cliu@juniper.net>,
        "Darren Loher" <dloher@rovingplanet.com>, "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>,
        "Vishwas Manral" <Vishwas@sinett.com>,
        "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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The LWAPP protocol does allow for the packets to be fragmented at the =
application layer, and yes, we have found this to be more transparent to =
any middlebox (FW or not) system, that would otherwise have store any =
fragments and reassemble in order to determine whether they comply to a =
corporate policy. Yes, you are correct that the simple inclusion of a =
site-to-site IPSec tunnel would resolve this problem, but we are =
unfortunately not always in a position to require that customers change =
their network deployments (hence cost) in order to deploy WLANs.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sadot, Emek (Emek) [mailto:esadot@avaya.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 1:58 PM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); Puneet Agarwal; Changming Liu;=20
> Darren Loher; sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> Using a firewall seems as a reasonable choice for a topology=20
> where the AC and WTP are in separate geographical sites. The=20
> immediate follow up question that came in mind would be: does=20
> your solution employ a fragmentation scheme at the=20
> application level or let the IP transport layer handle it?
>=20
> Another point is the use of VPN gateway. I'd think that it's=20
> rational to assume that the remote WTP is probably the only=20
> topology in which firewall make sense, thus wouldn't the VPN=20
> gateway at both ends moot the issue?
>=20
> Regards,
> Emek
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 1:44 PM
> To: Sadot, Emek (Emek); Puneet Agarwal; Changming Liu; Darren=20
> Loher; sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
>=20
> I'm aware of several of my customers using FWs to remote=20
> sites with WTPs.
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>=20
> =20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sadot, Emek (Emek) [mailto:esadot@avaya.com]
> > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 8:54 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun=20
> > (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> > capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >=20
> > A question about former tunneling protocols architectures=20
> (just out of=20
> > my ignorance): what is the landscape and motivations of other=20
> > tunneling protocol that adopted a fragmentation at=20
> application level=20
> > solution?
> >=20
> > Out of curiosity, would it be fair to assume that most of=20
> the CAPWAP=20
> > installations would be confined by a localized mobility domain were=20
> > intermediate firewall is not likely to reside?
> >=20
> > Regards,
> > Emek
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:29 PM
> > To: Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay;=20
> > Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >=20
> > Hi Changming,
> >=20
> > (a) For CAPWAP data frames (C=3D0), you are "tunneling"=20
> > wireless client frames inside the CAPWAP hdr (between the=20
> AC and WTP).=20
> > Hence from the perspective of the wireless client frames - they are=20
> > tunneled inside a CAPWAP/UDP/IP between WTP<-->AC. This=20
> CAPWAP/UDP/IP=20
> > could be called the "transport tunnel" from the perspective of the=20
> > wireless client frames.
> >=20
> > >From the perspective of UDP, the UDP port numbers generally
> > defines the application (in this case CAPWAP). Hence from the=20
> > perspective of UDP, CAPWAP is an application.
> >=20
> > So tunnel and UDP application are not mutually exclusive (it is a=20
> > question of which layer's perspective one is talking about).
> >=20
> > (b) I took Pat's comments to agree with my statements. Both=20
> he and I=20
> > seem to be talking about fragmenting at the CAPWAP level before=20
> > attaching a UDP/IP header. Maybe Pat can elaborate more on this.
> >=20
> > Thanks.
> >=20
> > -Puneet
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:50 PM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay;=20
> > Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >=20
> > Hi Puneet,
> >=20
> > Thanks for your quick reply. One thing I am confused about is the=20
> > definition of a tunnel vs. a UDP application.
> > Traditionally running an application on UDP/IP then over=20
> some kind of=20
> > layer 2 is not defined as a tunnel rather just a normal UDP=20
> > application. Otherwise, DNS, RTP, SIP or any application on=20
> top of UDP=20
> > will become a tunnel instead of an application. So is CAPWAP an=20
> > application of UDP or UDP/IP is tunnel to CAPWAP? As a=20
> application, it=20
> > is usually does not deal with fragmentation issue because=20
> it deems it=20
> > as IP layer issue. Otherwise, each application will have its own=20
> > built-in fragmentation algorithm and this will defeat the=20
> purpose of=20
> > having fragmentation functionality at IP layer. As a=20
> tunnel, a MTU may=20
> > be optionally defined to avoid tunneled packet=20
> fragmentation. But my=20
> > experience with IPsec tunnel tells me that sometimes the=20
> pre and post=20
> > encapsulation are both needed to be supported at the same=20
> time unless=20
> > the MTU of entire path of a tunnel is known.  The "transport tunnel"
> > is a definitely interesting definition. Not sure where this fits in.
> >=20
> > The reason I talked about the tunnel vs application is that your=20
> > answer to the fragmentation requirement is different from=20
> Pat's. His=20
> > answer is about the middle box. Having worked on the=20
> firewall business=20
> > for several years, I have hardly come across any middle box=20
> (firewall)=20
> > to be configured to drop the fragmented IP packets. The=20
> customers or=20
> > end users will screen at the IT if they chose to do that=20
> :-) Who knows=20
> > how many layers of encap a packet will be subjected to after many=20
> > layers of tunneling? Just for an example, IP over GRE over IPsec....
> > Whatever running on the inner IP may be encapsulated with its own=20
> > layers of tunnels.... As having been pointed out, the=20
> fragmentation is=20
> > not avoidable in today's networks, simply dropping it is=20
> usually not=20
> > an option at all for any serious and real deployment. This=20
> may be true=20
> > for some old stateless packet filtering firewalls. Not sure=20
> how many=20
> > really still be deployed there.
> >=20
> > Changming
> >=20
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:55 PM
> > To: Changming Liu; Darren Loher; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay;=20
> > Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >=20
> > Hi Changming,
> >=20
> > 1) Each transport tunnel has an MTU. If you know that you=20
> are going to=20
> > be exceeding that MTU when encapsulating the wireless=20
> frame, then it=20
> > is better to fragment at the LWAPP/CAPWAP level to avoid IP=20
> fragments=20
> > (when UDP/IP is the transport). It is not a question of whether=20
> > middleboxes (eg:
> > firewalls) can handle IP fragments or not (I assume that=20
> most can but=20
> > there are of course legacy issues) - but the most common=20
> configuration=20
> > of these deployed middleboxes is to drop IP fragments.
> >=20
> > If routers in the path of the WTP and AC want to IP fragment, then=20
> > that is definitely allowed and valid (with the caveat that some=20
> > middleboxes might drop these fragmented pkts). Even if path MTU=20
> > discovery is not done, one could argue that setting the UDP/IP=20
> > transport MTU to (1500-20-8)=3D 1472 would work under most=20
> circumstances=20
> > without the packet getting further IP fragmented by intervening=20
> > routers (assuming you don't have any other VPN tunnels etc in the=20
> > path).
> >=20
> > 2) Packet/fragment reordering is not really an issue for=20
> CAPWAP (and I=20
> > agree with you).
> >=20
> > Thanks.
> >=20
> > -Puneet
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:51 PM
> > To: Darren Loher; Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay;=20
> > Vishwas Manral; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >=20
> > A couple of questions about the benefits of this application=20
> > fragmentation just out of my ignorance.
> >=20
> > 1) Most commercial firewalls handles IP fragments well to an=20
> > acceptable degree (I don't think anybody will buy one which=20
> does not)=20
> > since fragmentation is common norm in IPv4. I guess it needs to be=20
> > handled one way or another even by the non-commercial ones.=20
> Not sure=20
> > why this issue is particular different for CAPWAP? If AC=20
> and APs are=20
> > connected via routers in several hops (this may be a likely=20
> case that=20
> > a firewall exists between the AC and APs), IPv4 fragmentation may=20
> > still be encountered because IPv4 path MTU is not used=20
> widely as we'd=20
> > like to.
> >=20
> > 2) Packet and fragment re-ordering are two different issues=20
> and should=20
> > be handled differently. Packet re-ordering is an issue that=20
> > application needs to handle if the order is important to it=20
> like RTP=20
> > stream. The IP fragmentation is an IP layer issue and=20
> should be dealt=20
> > with at IP layer. There should some solution today at IP layer. Not=20
> > sure this is particularly important to CAPWAP.
> >=20
> > Do I miss anything?
> >=20
> > Changming
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Darren Loher [mailto:dloher@rovingplanet.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:05 AM
> > To: Puneet Agarwal; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral;=20
> > Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> >=20
> > Thanks for the full explanation Puneet.  With fragmentation done at=20
> > the application (CAPWAP/LWAPP) layer this means every frame=20
> must have=20
> > a LWAPP header.
> >=20
> > I agree that this is especially important to get right as=20
> Pat pointed=20
> > out that tunneled data packets will commonly need to be fragmented.
> >=20
> > I another reason it's important not to have a standard IP stack=20
> > reassemble frames is due to possible packet/fragment=20
> reordering.  If=20
> > the network were to reorder the CAPWAP/LWAPP UDP tunnel packets for=20
> > any reason, it would result in corrupting the data frames=20
> inside the=20
> > tunnel.  We need the
> > FragID field of the LWAPP/CAPWAP header to help us there.  =20
> >=20
> > -Darren
> >=20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:52 AM
> > > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); sujay; Vishwas Manral; Abhijit
> > Choudhury;
> > > capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >=20
> > > Hi All,
> > >=20
> > > Just to remove any confusion, by application level=20
> fragmentation, I=20
> > > mean the LWAPP level fragmentation (as LWAPP is the
> > application from
> > > the UDP/IP transport perspective). Hopefully this answers
> > your question Sujoy.
> > >=20
> > > Hence the proposal is to fragment the wireless frame at the LWAPP=20
> > > level (F, L, Frag-Id would be valid - even for UDP/IP transport)=20
> > > before encapsulating the wireless frame in the transport (UDP/IP)=20
> > > headers (just like it is proposed in the spec for L2 transport).
> > >=20
> > > So conceptually LWAPP/CAPWAP should be agnostic of transport and=20
> > > assumes that the transport does not support fragmentation.
> > This gets
> > > rid of the middlebox problem (for IP fragments) and is
> > architecturally clean too.
> > >=20
> > > Thanks.
> > >=20
> > > -Puneet
> > >=20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:28 AM
> > > To: sujay; Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> > > capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > >=20
> > > If we let IP handle fragmentation, then we do not have=20
> control over=20
> > > adding LWAPP headers to it. It is true that having LWAPP perform=20
> > > fragmentation, and add an independent header, would allow for any=20
> > > middlebox (including
> > > firewall) traversal. Given the likelihood of fragmentated=20
> frames is=20
> > > certain (given we are tunneling MTU sized frames), I agree with=20
> > > Puneet's recommendation.
> > >=20
> > > Pat Calhoun
> > > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:45 PM
> > > > To: 'Vishwas Manral'; 'Puneet Agarwal'; 'Abhijit Choudhury';=20
> > > > capwap@frascone.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Vishwas,
> > > >
> > > > The F, L and Frag-id fields should be of use only for L2
> > transport.
> > > >
> > > > Fragmentation causes issues at the firewalls,=20
> essentially because=20
> > > > the lwapp header is carried in the first fragment alone.
> > > >
> > > > If the MTU is pre-determined for IPv4/6, the application
> > has to take
> > > > care of re-assembly.
> > > > There the F, L and Frag- id fields could be of use.
> > > > Additionally a few more fields may be required !
> > > >
> > > > Puneet,
> > > > IMO there is no advantage by pushing the fragmentation/
> > assembly to
> > > > the application.
> > > >
> > > > If firewall is the issue, is it possible to add the lwapp
> > header  in
> > > > all fragments..??
> > > >
> > > > Regds,
> > > > Sujay
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:09 AM
> > > > To: Vishwas Manral; Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury;=20
> > > > capwap@frascone.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Puneet,
> > > >
> > > > One small typo!! I had stated "I guess for IPv6 it is
> > already stated
> > > > that we do not do fragmentation at LWAPP level" I meant at
> > > > "IPv6 level"
> > > > I meant.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Vishwas
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:Vishwas@sinett.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:54 AM
> > > > To: Puneet Agarwal; Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > > >
> > > > Hi Puneet,
> > > >
> > > > I think you mean all middleboxes and not just firewalls.
> > > >
> > > > I guess for IPv6 it is already stated that we do not do=20
> > > > fragmentation at LWAPP level because we have to do MTU
> > discovery and
> > > > hence fragments can be done at the application level
> > itself. I think
> > > > only if Path MTU discovery is done for IPv4 too, can we
> > avoid fragmentation.
> > > >
> > > > Are you saying that the F, L and Fragment Id fields were
> > only valid
> > > > for
> > > > Layer-2 transport and not for Layer-3 transport earlier?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Vishwas
> > > > ________________________________________
> > > > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:16 AM
> > > > To: Abhijit Choudhury; capwap@frascone.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft
> > > >
> > > > The main issue is passing IP fragments via firewalls.=20
> > Most firewalls
> > > > drop fragmented packets (in fact the note is section 3.3.4 also=20
> > > > refers to that). Hence the question.
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > -Puneet
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________________
> > > > From: Abhijit Choudhury [mailto:Abhijit@sinett.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:42 AM
> > > > To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft For L3
> > transport,
> > > > as the spec says, only the first IP fragment would have
> > an LWAPP header.
> > > > Standard IP reassembly is used to put the fragments
> > together.=A0 F, L,
> > > > and FragID fields in the LWAPP header are not neeed for
> > reassembly.
> > > >
> > > > Am I missing something ?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > =A0=A0 Abhijit
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:57 PM
> > > > To: capwap@frascone.com; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > > > Subject: [Capwap] Question on LWAPP-03 draft Question of IPv4=20
> > > > frag/reassembly (Section 3.3.4):
> > > >
> > > > There=A0was some talk=A0in the past about performing the=20
> > > > fragmentation/reassembly at the application level to avoid IP=20
> > > > fragments.
> > > > In that case, the F,L and FragID bits would need to be
> > used even for
> > > > L3 transport. Did we ever reach a consensus on this one?
> > > >
> > > > My recommendation would be to do the frag/reassembly at
> > application
> > > > level.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > -Puneet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options,=20
> please visit:
> > > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > > >
> > > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options,=20
> please visit:
> > > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > > >
> > > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > > >
> > > >=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options,=20
> please visit:
> > > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > > >
> > > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > > >
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >=20
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >=20
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> >=20
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> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >=20
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >=20
>=20
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Hi All,

 I recently joined this group and i am delighted to
see emails from many industry experts in this group. I
have a quick questions about vlan tagging of 802.11
data frames.

 According to any of existing or drafting 802.11
standards, is it allowed to insert vlan tags in a
802.11 data frames? I have recently come across an AP
that inserts vlan tags in 802.11 data frames in the
frame payload right after the LLC header. Are WLAN NIC
cards expected to decode such packets? I thought that
the most common way of implementing vlans in 802.11 is
through multiple BSSIDs and not through vlan tags. Is
this correct?

 Any responses are greaty appreciated.

Thanks a lot,
Sitaram


		
___________________________________________________________ 
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday 
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
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From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 <Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com>
To: sitarama penumatsa <skcpenumatsa@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Question about vlan tagging of 802.11 data frames
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As far as I know, you are correct. 802.11 does not know about VLANs currently.

Donald 

-----Original Message-----
From: sitarama penumatsa [mailto:skcpenumatsa@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:19 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Question about vlan tagging of 802.11 data frames

Hi All,

 I recently joined this group and i am delighted to see emails from many industry experts in this group. I have a quick questions about vlan tagging of 802.11 data frames.

 According to any of existing or drafting 802.11 standards, is it allowed to insert vlan tags in a
802.11 data frames? I have recently come across an AP that inserts vlan tags in 802.11 data frames in the frame payload right after the LLC header. Are WLAN NIC cards expected to decode such packets? I thought that the most common way of implementing vlans in 802.11 is through multiple BSSIDs and not through vlan tags. Is this correct?

 Any responses are greaty appreciated.

Thanks a lot,
Sitaram


		
___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap

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Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:12:29 +0500
From: zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
Subject: Re:[Capwap] Question about vlan tagging of 802.11 data frames
To: skcpenumatsa@yahoo.com
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Hi:

   I think this is a good concept. Maybe in the future, station can support
protocol vlan.

  But at present, station is a vlan-unware device , so that station does not
insert vlan tag in 802.11 frame.

  And when AP receives 802.11 frame, it can transform to 802.3 frames or
directly send to AC. Only AP or AC is a vlan-ware device, it may insert a vlan tag for received frames.

Best regards
Michael

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "sitarama penumatsa" <skcpenumatsa@yahoo.com>
To: <capwap@frascone.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:48 AM
Subject: [Capwap] Question about vlan tagging of 802.11 data frames


> Hi All,
>
> I recently joined this group and i am delighted to
> see emails from many industry experts in this group. I
> have a quick questions about vlan tagging of 802.11
> data frames.
>
> According to any of existing or drafting 802.11
> standards, is it allowed to insert vlan tags in a
> 802.11 data frames? I have recently come across an AP
> that inserts vlan tags in 802.11 data frames in the
> frame payload right after the LLC header. Are WLAN NIC
> cards expected to decode such packets? I thought that
> the most common way of implementing vlans in 802.11 is
> through multiple BSSIDs and not through vlan tags. Is
> this correct?
>
> Any responses are greaty appreciated.
>
> Thanks a lot,
> Sitaram
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
> snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 14:11:32 +0200
From: Periklis Chatzimisios <peris@it.teithe.gr>
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Subject: [Capwap] CFP: Workshop on multiMedia Applications over Wireless
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  (Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this message)


                 C A L L   F O R   P A P E R S
                 =============================

                       1st Workshop on 
          multiMedia Applications over Wireless Networks             
                       (MediaWiN 2006)
                (http://mediaWiN.it.teithe.gr)

                        April 2, 2006
                        Athens, Greece

   In conjunction with 12th European Wireless Conference (EW 2006)
            (http://www.telecom.ece.ntua.gr/EW2006)


Scope
The purpose of the MediaWiN 2006 Workshop is to provide a forum for 
presenting and
discussing recent advances in multimedia systems, services and 
applications over wireless
networks. In particular, the Workshop will bring together leading 
researchers, industry
professionals and academics from companies, governmental agencies, and 
universities
around the world to exchange information and new findings as well as to 
study the special
problems and challenges of the multimedia mobile and wireless environments.


Topics of Interest
The workshop will only accept for review original papers that have not been
previously published and are not currently under review by another 
conference or journal.
Topics of particular interest include, but are not limited to the 
following:

Quality and Reliability of Wireless Multimedia

    * Providing QoS over wireless networks (Scheduling, Call admission
      Control and Rate control,packetization schemes, prioritization
      schemes)
    * Cross-Layer techniques for multimedia communications over wireless
      networks
    * Provisioning, monitoring, and management of IP services for
      WPANs/WLANs
    * Traffic charging and accounting of integrated systems and services
    * Multimedia support over multi-hop wireless networks (mesh, ad-hoc,
      sensor networks)


Performance Modeling and Analysis of High-speed Wireless PANs and LANs

    * Performance evaluation of multimedia services via analysis,
      simulation and experiments (voice, video, interactive gaming)
    * Design, implementation and testbed/experimental results for
      wireless multimedia systems
    * Energy efficiency in wireless multimedia protocols


Emerging Standards and Technologies for Wireless Multimedia Communications

    * Performance of VoIP, VoD services and related protocols (IPv4,
      IPv6, H.323, SIP,RTP,RTCP)
    * Standardization activities in emerging standards: IEEE 802.11,
      802.15, 802.16
    * New network architectures and management solutions for WLANs (IEEE
      802.11v,CAPWAP)
    * Emerging and visionary multimedia applications for wireless mobile
      networks
    * Authentication and security issues in wireless multimedia systems



Important dates
Submission of research papers:     February 5, 2006
Notification of paper acceptance:  February 25, 2006
Submission of camera-ready papers: March 6, 2006
Workshop date:                     April 2, 2006


Submission Guidelines
We encourage submission of high-quality technical papers reporting 
original work and
previously unpublished research in the above theoretical and 
experimental research areas.
Submitted papers must be submitted to any of the Chairs as a .PDF file 
and must not
exceed 7 A4 pages, double columned, single-spaced format, using 12-point 
font size. All
submissions must also contain full contact information of the authors 
along with an
abstract no more than 150 words describing the presented research content.



Organizing Committee

Workshop Co-Chairs

Periklis Chatzimisios, TEI of Thessaloniki, Greece
Vasileios Vitsas, TEI of Thessaloniki, Greece


Program Co-Chairs

Ilenia Tinnirello, University of Palermo, Italy
Andrea Zanella, University of Padova, Italy


Technical Program Committee

Dimitrios Amanatiadis (TEI of Thessaloniki, Greece)
Leonardo Badia (University of Ferrara, Italy)
Frank Ball (Bournemouth University, UK)
Paolo Bellavista (University of Bologna, Italy)
Giuseppe Bianchi (University of Rome Tor Vergata, Italy)
Anthony Boucouvalas (Bournemouth University, UK)
David Everitt (University of Sydney, Australia)
Fary Z. Ghassemlooy (Northumbria University, UK)
Fabrizio Granelli (University of Trento, Italy)
Ibrahim Habib (City University of New York, USA)
Pi Huang (Bournemouth University, UK)
Christos Ilioudis (TEI of Larissa, Greece)
Alexandros Kaloxylos (University of Peloponnese, Greece)
Michael Logothetis (University of Patras, Greece)
Vasileios Lourdas (TEI of Thessaloniki, Greece)
Stefan Mangold (Swisscom Innovations, Switzerland)
Ioannis Mavridis (University of Macedonia, Greece)
Georgios Papadimitriou (Aristotle University, Greece)
Kostas Pentikousis (VTT Tech. Research Centre, Finland)
Luca Scalia (University of Palermo, Italy)
Antonio Servetti (Politecnico di Torino, Italy)
Yang Xiao (University of Memphis, USA)
Michele Zorzi (University of Padova, Italy)



-- 
Dr. Periklis Chatzimisios
Researcher in Wireless Communications & Multimedia Networks
Department of Informatics,
TEI of Thessaloniki, GR-574 00
Thessaloniki, Greece

E-mail: pchatzimisios@ieee.org
URL: http://decweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/staff/pchatzimisios
Tel: +30 2310-791604
Fax: +30 2310-791290







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 style=3D"font-family: -moz-fixed; font-size: 13px;" lang=3D"el">=A0
(Apologies
if you receive multiple copies of this message)
<br>
<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 C A L L=A0=A0 F O R=A0=A0 =
P A P E R S
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1st Wo=
rkshop on=A0 <br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 multiMedia Applications over Wireless Network=
s=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 (MediaWi=
N 2006)
<br>
=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 (<a href=3D"http://mediaWiN.it.te=
ithe.gr">http://mediaWiN.it.teithe.gr</a>)<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 April=
 2, 2006
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ath=
ens, Greece
<br>
<br>
=A0=A0 In conjunction with 12th European Wireless Conference (EW 2006)<br=
>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 (<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext"
 href=3D"http://www.telecom.ece.ntua.gr/EW2006">http://www.telecom.ece.nt=
ua.gr/EW2006</a>)
<br>
<br>
<br>
Scope <br>
The purpose of the MediaWiN 2006 Workshop is to provide a forum
for presenting and
<br>
discussing recent advances in multimedia systems, services and
applications over wireless
<br>
networks. In particular, the Workshop will bring together leading
researchers, industry
<br>
professionals and academics from companies, governmental agencies, and
universities
<br>
around the world to exchange information and new findings as well as to
study the special
<br>
problems and challenges of the multimedia mobile and wireless
environments.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Topics of Interest
<br>
The workshop will only accept for review original papers that have
not been
<br>
previously published and are not currently under review by another
conference or journal.
<br>
Topics of particular interest include, but are not limited to the
following:
<br>
<br>
Quality and Reliability of Wireless Multimedia
<br>
<ul>
  <li>Providing QoS over wireless networks (Scheduling, Call admission
Control and Rate control,packetization schemes, prioritization schemes)
  </li>
  <li>Cross-Layer techniques for multimedia communications over
wireless networks </li>
  <li>Provisioning, monitoring, and management of IP services for
WPANs/WLANs </li>
  <li>Traffic charging and accounting of integrated systems and
services </li>
  <li>Multimedia support over multi-hop wireless networks (mesh,
ad-hoc, sensor networks) </li>
</ul>
<br>
Performance Modeling and Analysis of High-speed Wireless PANs and LANs
<br>
<ul>
  <li>Performance evaluation of multimedia services via analysis,
simulation
and experiments (voice, video, interactive gaming) </li>
  <li>Design, implementation and testbed/experimental results for
wireless multimedia systems </li>
  <li>Energy efficiency in wireless multimedia protocols </li>
</ul>
<br>
Emerging Standards and Technologies for Wireless Multimedia
Communications
<br>
<ul>
  <li>Performance of VoIP, VoD services and related protocols (IPv4,
IPv6, H.323, SIP,RTP,RTCP) </li>
  <li>Standardization activities in emerging standards: IEEE 802.11,
802.15, 802.16 </li>
  <li>New network architectures and management solutions for WLANs
(IEEE 802.11v,CAPWAP) </li>
  <li>Emerging and visionary multimedia applications for wireless
mobile networks </li>
  <li>Authentication and security issues in wireless multimedia systems
  </li>
</ul>
<br>
<br>
Important dates
<br>
Submission of research papers:=A0=A0=A0=A0 February 5, 2006
<br>
Notification of paper acceptance:=A0 February 25, 2006
<br>
Submission of camera-ready papers: March 6, 2006
<br>
Workshop date:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
 April 2, 2006
<br>
<br>
<br>
Submission Guidelines
<br>
We encourage submission of high-quality technical papers reporting
original work and
<br>
previously unpublished research in the above theoretical and
experimental research areas.
<br>
Submitted papers must be submitted to any of the Chairs as a .PDF file
and must not
<br>
exceed 7 A4 pages, double columned, single-spaced format, using
12-point font size. All
<br>
submissions must also contain full contact information of the authors
along with an
<br>
abstract no more than 150 words describing the presented research
content.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Organizing Committee
<br>
<br>
Workshop Co-Chairs
<br>
<br>
Periklis Chatzimisios, TEI of Thessaloniki, Greece
<br>
Vasileios Vitsas, TEI of Thessaloniki, Greece
<br>
<br>
<br>
Program Co-Chairs
<br>
<br>
Ilenia Tinnirello, University of Palermo, Italy
<br>
Andrea Zanella, University of Padova, Italy
<br>
<br>
<br>
Technical Program Committee
<br>
<br>
Dimitrios Amanatiadis (TEI of Thessaloniki, Greece)
<br>
Leonardo Badia (University of Ferrara, Italy)
<br>
Frank Ball (Bournemouth University, UK)
<br>
Paolo Bellavista (University of Bologna, Italy)<br>
Giuseppe Bianchi (University of Rome Tor Vergata, Italy)
<br>
Anthony Boucouvalas (Bournemouth University, UK)
<br>
David Everitt (University of Sydney, Australia)
<br>
Fary Z. Ghassemlooy (Northumbria University, UK)
<br>
Fabrizio Granelli (University of Trento, Italy)
<br>
Ibrahim Habib (City University of New York, USA)
<br>
Pi Huang (Bournemouth University, UK)
<br>
Christos Ilioudis (TEI of Larissa, Greece)
<br>
Alexandros Kaloxylos (University of Peloponnese, Greece)
<br>
Michael Logothetis (University of Patras, Greece)
<br>
Vasileios Lourdas (TEI of Thessaloniki, Greece)
<br>
Stefan Mangold (Swisscom Innovations, Switzerland)
<br>
Ioannis Mavridis (University of Macedonia, Greece)
<br>
Georgios Papadimitriou (Aristotle University, Greece)
<br>
Kostas Pentikousis (VTT Tech. Research Centre, Finland)
<br>
Luca Scalia (University of Palermo, Italy)
<br>
Antonio Servetti (Politecnico di Torino, Italy)
<br>
Yang Xiao (University of Memphis, USA)
<br>
Michele Zorzi (University of Padova, Italy)
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--
<br>
Dr. Periklis Chatzimisios
<br>
Researcher in Wireless Communications &amp; Multimedia Networks
<br>
Department of Informatics,
<br>
TEI of Thessaloniki, GR-574 00<br>
Thessaloniki, Greece
<br>
<br>
E-mail: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
 href=3D"mailto:pchatzimisios@ieee.org">pchatzimisios@ieee.org</a> <br>
URL: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext"
 href=3D"http://decweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/staff/pchatzimisios">http://decw=
eb.bournemouth.ac.uk/staff/pchatzimisios</a>
<br>
Tel: +30 2310-791604<br>
Fax: +30 2310-791290
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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In order to make sure that we can close on the request in section 9.2.3
of the recommendations document:

Summary: Either use L2TP or GRE for encapsulation

WG Update: Although I raised the issue, no discussion on this topic on
the list

Pat's Recommendation: While I understand the overall recommendation, I
believe that there are=20
misunderstandings of what this really means (see=20
http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg01864.html
<http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg01864.html> ). My
recommendation is=20
that do not implement this change.

=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20
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All,
=20
At the request of the chairs, Dave Frascone has graciously setup an
issue tracker to help track the pending change requests, and make sure
nothing falls through the crack. Over the course of the next few days, I
will be adding each request that has come up on the list into the issue
tracker, helping me identify what's completed, pending and under
discussion. As a result, I will most likely be initiating a bunch of
discussions based on the change requests for which we do not have
agreement.
=20
Given human nature, it is possible that I miss a request or two, so I
would appreciate that you keep an eye on the issue tracker to make sure
that all of your requests are present. This verification request is only
for the first batch as I believe there may be at least a hundred such
requests scattered across e-mails and the eval draft. The issue tracker
can be found at http://www.capwap.org/roundup.
=20
Moving forward, I will volunteer to manually add new change requests for
the base draft to tracker in order to limit who has read/write access,
but the information will be available for read only for everyone.
=20
Thanks,

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C61C4D.65F41C60
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	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D207303116-18012006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D207303116-18012006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D207303116-18012006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At the =
request of=20
the chairs, Dave Frascone has graciously setup an issue tracker to help =
track=20
the pending change requests, and make sure nothing falls through the =
crack. Over=20
the course of the next few days, I will be adding each request that has =
come up=20
on the list into the issue tracker, helping me identify what's =
completed,=20
pending and under discussion. As a result, I will most likely be =
initiating a=20
bunch of discussions based on the change requests for which we do not =
have=20
agreement.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D207303116-18012006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D207303116-18012006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Given =
human nature,=20
it is possible that I miss a request or two, so I would appreciate that =
you keep=20
an eye on the issue tracker to make sure that all of your requests are =
present.=20
This verification request is only for the first batch as I believe there =
may be=20
at least a hundred such requests scattered across e-mails and the eval =
draft.=20
The issue tracker can be found at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.capwap.org/roundup">http://www.capwap.org/roundup</A>.=
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D207303116-18012006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D207303116-18012006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Moving =
forward, I=20
will volunteer to manually add new change requests for the base =
draft&nbsp;to=20
tracker in order to limit who has read/write access, but the information =
will be=20
available for read only for everyone.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D207303116-18012006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D207303116-18012006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain =
format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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_________________________________________________________________
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Change request (c) in
http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg02056.html states that the
radio types in the specification are incorrect. The comment reads:
=20
Page 35 -- Radio Type --  no 802.11b (only) -- no 802.11n -- no
superG -- no superA
=20
I wonder whether it is really worth including an 802.11b only
enumeration, given that all 2.4Ghz devices I am aware of these days that
I am aware of support both b and g. Further, including SuperG and SuperA
is ill advised since it is not a standard. I will add 802.11n.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D609493418-18012006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Change =
request (c)=20
in <A=20
href=3D"http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg02056.html">http://=
lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg02056.html</A>&nbsp;states=20
that the radio types in the specification are incorrect. The comment=20
reads:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Page 35 -- Radio Type --&nbsp; no 802.11b (only) -- no 802.11n --=20
no<BR>superG -- no superA</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D609493418-18012006>I =
wonder whether it=20
is really worth including an 802.11b only enumeration, given that all =
2.4Ghz=20
devices I am aware of these days that I am aware of support both b and =
g.=20
Further, including SuperG and SuperA is ill advised since it is not a =
standard.=20
I will add 802.11n.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain =
format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: Philip Rakity <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Radio Type change request
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:43:38 -0800
To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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Pat,

Some devices I have come across have a configuration option to  
support ONLY G and not B/G.  So maybe there room to enumerate things.

Philip

On Jan 18, 2006, at 10:36 AM, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:

> Change request (c) in http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/ 
> msg02056.html states that the radio types in the specification are  
> incorrect. The comment reads:
>
> Page 35 -- Radio Type --  no 802.11b (only) -- no 802.11n -- no
> superG -- no superA
>
> I wonder whether it is really worth including an 802.11b only  
> enumeration, given that all 2.4Ghz devices I am aware of these days  
> that I am aware of support both b and g. Further, including SuperG  
> and SuperA is ill advised since it is not a standard. I will add  
> 802.11n.
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap

Philip Rakity
prakity@u4eatech.com


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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Radio Type change request
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:47:03 -0800
Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A2013D97A4@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Radio Type change request
Thread-Index: AcYcXyg4nQNYjfYbTQ6hPXcrer3ZoQAAGWZQ
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Philip Rakity" <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>
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Ok, I will make the change for completeness.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:44 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Cc: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] Radio Type change request
>=20
>=20
> Pat,
>=20
> Some devices I have come across have a configuration option=20
> to support ONLY G and not B/G.  So maybe there room to=20
> enumerate things.
>=20
> Philip
>=20
> On Jan 18, 2006, at 10:36 AM, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
>=20
> > Change request (c) in http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/
> > msg02056.html states that the radio types in the specification are=20
> > incorrect. The comment reads:
> >
> > Page 35 -- Radio Type --  no 802.11b (only) -- no 802.11n=20
> -- no superG=20
> > -- no superA
> >
> > I wonder whether it is really worth including an 802.11b only=20
> > enumeration, given that all 2.4Ghz devices I am aware of these days=20
> > that I am aware of support both b and g. Further, including=20
> SuperG and=20
> > SuperA is ill advised since it is not a standard. I will=20
> add 802.11n.
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
> Philip Rakity
> prakity@u4eatech.com
>=20
>=20
> This message is hereby marked U4EA CONFIDENTIAL, is intended=20
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>=20
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Pat Calhoun writes...

> Pat's Recommendation: While I understand the overall recommendation, I
> believe that there are misunderstandings of what this really means
(see
> http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg01864.html.
> My recommendation is that do not implement this change.

I agree.

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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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Change request (j) in
http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg02056.html
<http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg02056.html>  includes the
following request: "why not use the text in the 802.11 MIB definitions
and the name of the MIB entry where these are used to configure the
WTP".
=20
The text in the LWAPP spec was pulled from the MIB, but we are not using
the variable names (note that the names are nearly identical, but do not
have MIB variable name formats). I believe that adding a reference to
the MIB object is a valuable addition.
=20
Is this ok?

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Change request (j) in </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg02056.html"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg02056.html</FONT><=
/A><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> includes the following request: "why not use the =
text in the=20
802.11 MIB<SPAN class=3D007324119-18012006> </SPAN>definitions and the =
name of the=20
MIB entry where these are used to configure the WTP".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The text in the LWAPP spec was pulled =
from the MIB,=20
but we are not using the variable names (note that the names are nearly=20
identical, but do not have M<SPAN class=3D007324119-18012006>IB</SPAN> =
variable=20
name formats). I believe that adding a reference to the MIB object is a =
valuable=20
addition.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D007324119-18012006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is =
this=20
ok?</FONT></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Jan 18 14:49:03 2006
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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Just following up on Philip's previous question:

>> k) Page 94 -- Section 11.3.1 -- WLAN's field -- just do NOT =20
>> understand
>> how setting a bit relates to the WLAN ID's used later in the
>> document --
>> can you give an example or two ?  Only 16 WLAN ID's allowed ??/
>
> Well the text specifically states that if the AC wants to send a
> broadcast or multicast packet, it sets the BSSIDs that it wishes to
> transmit the packets on. This eliminates the need for the AC to =20
> have to
> replicate the packet n times. In terms of the number of WLAN IDs
> allowed, 16 is actually a large number because each BSSID has to
> transmit beacons every beacon interval period (typically 100ms), so
> that's 16 packets per 100ms of pure overhead.
>
>
> Can you give an example showing how this is used for say 3 different =20
> WLAN ID's.   I am confused.  Can we put the example as an appendix ?=20

Let's assume that I have three WLANs (1, 2 and 3). If the AC gets a
broadcast
Packet that needs to be forwarded only to the BSSID associated with WLAN
1, it
Would set the bitfield to 0x01. However, if VLANs associated with WLANs
1 and
2 required the AC to forward a broadcast packet to both WLANs, the WLAN
field
Would be set to 0x03.

Makes sense?

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
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I agree. -Puneet=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:30 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Closing on 9.2.3

In order to make sure that we can close on the request in section 9.2.3
of the recommendations document:

Summary: Either use L2TP or GRE for encapsulation

WG Update: Although I raised the issue, no discussion on this topic on
the list

Pat's Recommendation: While I understand the overall recommendation, I
believe that there are misunderstandings of what this really means (see
http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg01864.html
<http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg01864.html> ). My
recommendation is that do not implement this change.

=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:23:32 -0800
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Philip Rakity" <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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> On Dec 12, 2005, at 11:42 PM, sujay wrote:
> > b) page 32 --  section 5.1 "Discovery requests MUST be sent=20
> by an ...
> > AND when no echo responses are received and the WTP"    I think it
> > should say that "Discovery requests MUST be sent by a WTP when the
> > WTP returns to the idle state.   This can occur for example when no
> > echo responses are received for NeibhborDeadInteval. "
> >
> > Suj> IMHO in the Idle State No Discovery requests are sent, once
> > entering
> > the Idle state, the SM moves to Discovery state before sending Disc=20
> > Req messages.
> >
> > The section talks about when as you rightly pointed out no echo=20
> > responses are Received for NeighborDeadInterval.
> >
> Thanks --  So does idle state wait the random time interval=20
> and then move to discovery or is done in the discovery phase ?
> If the initial delay is done in the idle phase then the=20
> requirement is after no echo packets -- transition to idle phase.

Does the following text solve the issue, or do you need additional
clarification/changes in the spec?

        Discovery requests MUST be sent by a WTP when no echo responses
are=20
        received for NeighborDeadInterval and the WTP returns to the
Idle=20
        state.  Discovery requests are sent after NeighborDeadInterval,
they=20
        MUST be sent after waiting for a random delay less than=20
        MaxDiscoveryInterval.  A WTP MAY send up to a maximum of
MaxDiscoveries=20
        discoveries, waiting for a random delay less than
MaxDiscoveryInterval=20
        between each successive discovery.
>=20
> > d) Page 37 -- Section 5.2.4  WTP manager control IPV4 address -- do=20
> > not understand the text --  is there only one ip address ? =20
> if so --=20
> > then the ip address is used to return the interface of the AC.  If=20
> > only one address -- how is load balancing done ?
> >
> > Suj> If the AC has more than one Interfaces open for the WTP to
> > join, it
> > specifies each of these ip address's with Individual TLV's,
> > - right, for single ip interface load balancing cannot be=20
> done ,(given=20
> > only one AC) the AC should return its own interface Ip address.
>=20
> So the problem is the ip address CAN repeat but this is not=20
> reflected in the definition of the length?
An AC would include one such message element per interface it has. So
the length is correct.

> >
> >
> > h) Page 65 -- Blacklist Entry's  -- This whole area is not good =20
> > from my
> > point of view.  When I configure a firewall I say what is allowed
> > (explicitly) and forbid everything else -- there is no way I can =20
> > give a
> > list of trusted stations and forbid everything else.  This=20
> makes live
> > very difficult.  There is room for a blacklist -- but an allowed =20
> > list is
> > also needed.
> >
> >
> > Suj> In my opinion blacklisting is to prevent any .11 mgt=20
> frames from
> > passing upto the AC for the current WTP-AC session.
> > - to blacklist one MAC address and allow others is more exact and
> > specific rather than knowing ALL those which are
> > Allowed, either way the one which is allowed will is kept=20
> the Radius,
> > you could put your 'allowed' list there !
>=20
> I think there is a use for BOTH cases.  in a secure environment I do =20
> not want control frames from rogue AP's.

Looks like we are still not in complete agreement on this one. Typical
802.11
Devices include an approved list (known as MAC Filter). It is assumed
that this
function is provided w/o CAPWAP involvement, while a blacklist is
provided
by CAPWAP. If I understsand correct, you would like a replicated set of
messages
to serve as the permit list? Do others agree?

> >
> >
> > i) Page 70 -- Image Data -- do not understand how this can work -- =20
> > only
> > 2 fragments allowed -- no count of what is being sent etc=20
> -- no way to
> > detect packet loss ---  why not use data xfer mechanism of=20
> tftp ?  --
> > the blocks are numbered =3D=3D etc BUT define a md5 hash of the =
whole =20
> > image
> > and give its length in the initial request.
> >
> > Suj> LWAPP has the in-band Image transfer mechanism, some=20
> protocols =20
> > use
> > what you have specified.
> >
>=20
> I do not understand how this can work as defined in the text.  I =20
> understand I could overlay it but it needs a definition.

Could you help identify what needs a definition?

> > k) Page 72 -- Section 8.5.2   Duplicate IP address =3D=3D what is a
> > host ?  Is this a mobile station ?  What about the case of a mobile
> > station having the SAME mac address as a already connected mobile
> > station to the WTP.  =3D=3D only useful if NOT split mac
> >
> > Suj> host here is the WTP itself, MAC address are unique so there =20
> > should
> > not be a case of a  mobile station having
> > the same MAC address as another one.
> >
> Can we change text to say WTP -- thanks
> Just like there should not be a duplicate IP address in the network =20
> there should not be a duplicate MAC address, but MAC addresses are =20
> also soft
> the linux command
> ifconfig hwether allows one to change the mac address

I'm confused here because the text reads fine to me. I did change host
to
IP device, but I don't think this is addressing your original comment.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
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From: Philip Rakity <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>
Subject: Fwd: [Capwap] WLAN Field
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:34:36 -0800
To: capwap@frascone.com
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>
>
> Hi Pat,
>
> Makes sense --- just define which bit is bit 0 and bit 1 etc.  Got it
>
> Philip
>
> On Jan 18, 2006, at 11:46 AM, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
>
>> Just following up on Philip's previous question:
>>
>>>> k) Page 94 -- Section 11.3.1 -- WLAN's field -- just do NOT
>>>> understand
>>>> how setting a bit relates to the WLAN ID's used later in the
>>>> document --
>>>> can you give an example or two ?  Only 16 WLAN ID's allowed ??/
>>>
>>> Well the text specifically states that if the AC wants to send a
>>> broadcast or multicast packet, it sets the BSSIDs that it wishes to
>>> transmit the packets on. This eliminates the need for the AC to
>>> have to
>>> replicate the packet n times. In terms of the number of WLAN IDs
>>> allowed, 16 is actually a large number because each BSSID has to
>>> transmit beacons every beacon interval period (typically 100ms), so
>>> that's 16 packets per 100ms of pure overhead.
>>>
>>>
>>> Can you give an example showing how this is used for say 3 different
>>> WLAN ID's.   I am confused.  Can we put the example as an appendix ?
>>
>> Let's assume that I have three WLANs (1, 2 and 3). If the AC gets a
>> broadcast
>> Packet that needs to be forwarded only to the BSSID associated  
>> with WLAN
>> 1, it
>> Would set the bitfield to 0x01. However, if VLANs associated with  
>> WLANs
>> 1 and
>> 2 required the AC to forward a broadcast packet to both WLANs, the  
>> WLAN
>> field
>> Would be set to 0x03.
>>
>> Makes sense?
>>
>> Pat Calhoun
>> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
>> Cisco Systems
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>>
>
> Philip Rakity
> prakity@u4eatech.com
>
>
> This message is hereby marked U4EA CONFIDENTIAL, is intended only  
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>
>

Philip Rakity
prakity@u4eatech.com


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To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Closing on 9.2.3
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I agree that this issue should not be implemented and can be closed.

While the intent to reuse code and go with an existing standard of
some kind for data encapsulation is the right idea, Pat and Puneet
convinced me that that using GRE or L2TP will not actually help LWAPP.
 Upon closer examination, both would need some modification or
addition to carry the RSSI/SNR for data frames.

Regarding firewall/NAT traversal, since L2TP and LWAPP are based on
regular UDP they are effectively equivalent.  GRE is not often NAT'd
automatically by firewalls because it is not based on UDP or TCP.  In
addition, supporting more than one GRE tunnel is not possible without
an application layer (GRE layer) gateway in the firewall.  This is a
significant disadvantage compared to using the existing LWAPP header
for tunneling.

-Darren Loher

On 1/18/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:
> In order to make sure that we can close on the request in section 9.2.3
> of the recommendations document:
>
> Summary: Either use L2TP or GRE for encapsulation
>
> WG Update: Although I raised the issue, no discussion on this topic on
> the list
>
> Pat's Recommendation: While I understand the overall recommendation, I
> believe that there are
> misunderstandings of what this really means (see
> http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg01864.html
> <http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap/msg01864.html> ). My
> recommendation is
> that do not implement this change.
>
>
>
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:41:21 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
Thread-Index: AcX/Y7B3bgU7IpOSRvCH5LO06L+vKAB4j+KwBspV/RA=
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
        "Philip Rakity" <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Saravanan,

In order to ensure that I am tracking all of the issues properly, could
you please be more specific in your change recommendations below? I do
have the field size one already, as this was in the eval draft.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 11:08 PM
> To: Philip Rakity; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
>=20
> Hi Philip,
>=20
> You have clearly reviewed the draft in detail! I think the=20
> points you raise are very important for the protocol.=20
>=20
> Perhaps some recommendations can be made based on the points=20
> raised. I think it would be helpful for the WG to see how the=20
> recommendations can fit in to the current LWAPP specifications.=20
>=20
> On a related note, I think the first WG version of the=20
> protocol can also include those issues which were discussed=20
> during the last meeting. There seemed to be some agreement in=20
> the issues such as information elements field size, firmware=20
> operations and local-MAC mode operations.=20
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> Saravanan
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:35 AM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
>=20
>=20
> I am a newbie to the group and this the first time that I have read
> the internet draft.  I have a number of comments on the draft that
> are below.  Most a minor editorial things but some are areas I do not
> understand
>=20
> a) Use of "integer" is not consistent in the document --- most of the
> time it means unsigned, sometimes signed (but marked as signed), but
> sometimes the phrase "unsigned integer" is used and this then makes
> me wonder if the fields marked integer are signed or not.
>=20
> b) page 32 --  section 5.1 "Discovery requests MUST be sent by an ...
> AND when no echo responses are received and the WTP"    I think it
> should say that "Discovery requests MUST be sent by a WTP when the
> WTP returns to the idle state.   This can occur for example when no
> echo responses are received for NeibhborDeadInteval. "
>=20
> c) Page 35 -- Radio Type --  no 802.11b (only) -- no 802.11n -- no
> superG -- no superA
>=20
> d) Page 37 -- Section 5.2.4  WTP manager control IPV4 address -- do
> not understand the text --  is there only one ip address ?  if so --
> then the ip address is used to return the interface of the AC.  If
> only one address -- how is load balancing done ?
>=20
> e) Page 41 -- Section 6.1  Join Request  -- 3rd paragraph -- Why the
> 1596 MTU limit -- how was this number chosen ? =3D=3D (RIF routes if
> vlan ?)  if I use 802.3 then I have seen h/w do 1522 (4 byte vlan
> tag) -- some number a little bigger than 1522 and h/w do 16K bytes --
> (intel ixp 4xx series) ---  The 16K number is bigger than the 4k SDU
> for wireless medium...  Would it be better to base the discovery on
> the MTU of the wireless media and work down ?
>=20
> f) Page 52 -- Section 6.5 and Section 6.6 -- Change item that says
> see Figure 2 -- to read see section 2.2
>=20
> g) Page 60 -- REboot Statistics =3D=3D this requires the WTP maintain
> state to know if the last Failure Type was LWAPP initiated.   Same
> comment for Crash count.  No value defined for state not maintained
> by WTP.  Add cross reference to section where AC tells WTP to reboot.
>=20
> h) Page 65 -- Blacklist Entry's  -- This whole area is not good from
> my point of view.  When I configure a firewall I say what is allowed
> (explicitly) and forbid everything else -- there is no way I can give
> a list of trusted stations and forbid everything else.  This makes
> live very difficult.  There is room for a blacklist -- but an allowed
> list is also needed.
>=20
> i) Page 70 -- Image Data -- do not understand how this can work --
> only 2 fragments allowed -- no count of what is being sent etc -- no
> way to detect packet loss ---  why not use data xfer mechanism of
> tftp ?  -- the blocks are numbered =3D=3D etc BUT define a md5 hash of
> the whole image and give its length in the initial request.
>=20
> j) Page 72 -- Section 8.5.1 Decryption Error Report   =3D=3D add note
> about only useful if split mac.
>=20
> k) Page 72 -- Section 8.5.2   Duplicate IP address =3D=3D what is a
> host ?  Is this a mobile station ?  What about the case of a mobile
> station having the SAME mac address as a already connected mobile
> station to the WTP.  =3D=3D only useful if NOT split mac
>=20
> l) General comment -- there is no command to synchronize  time (set
> the clocks) in the WTP to a common time base
>=20
> j) General comment -- why not use the text in the 802.11 MIB
> definitions and the name of the MIB entry where these are used to
> configure the WTP
>=20
> k) Page 94 -- Section 11.3.1 -- WLAN's field -- just do NOT
> understand how setting a bit relates to the WLAN ID's used later in
> the document -- can you give an example or two ?  Only 16 WLAN ID's
> allowed ??/
>=20
> l) Page 97 -- WLAN ID -- field is 8 bits -- other places in document
> 16 bits
>=20
> m) Page 102 -- IEEE 802.11 stats -- Why not pad out Radio ID with 3
> bytes of "reserved field" so all other fields are 32 bit aligned or
> move it to the end of definition (after decryption errors).
>=20
> n) Page 105 -- WLAN ID -- picture is 8 bits -- text is 16 bits
>=20
> o) Page 109 WLAN Capability -- can you rename this and ALL other
> fields to use the same terms as the 802.11 base standard or the MIB
> (very confusing) -- or cross reference
>=20
> p) Page 113 -- Country Code -- reference 802.11d since this is the
> definition
>=20
> q) Page 113 -- Rate Set -- is length wrong ?  should be >=3D 2
> otherwise what is definition for rates NOT used
>=20
> r) Page 115 -- RTS Threshold etc -- use wording from the MIB
> definitions for all of these entries and reference mib object
>=20
> s) Page 119 -- IEEE Antenna length -- length sound be >=3D 5
>=20
> t) Page 120 -- Supported rates -- length >=3D 2 and <=3D 9
>=20
> u) Page 122 - WTP Qos -- length is 2 if untagged or 802.1p  -- if
> dscp it is 2 + (10)*dscp entries
>=20
> v) Security -- any reason ssl could not be used even for level 2
> encryption?  since the link is PT to PT -- the ip address/header is
> not need -- then almost same code as layer 3 -- and the package is
> public domain so easy to hack
>=20
> regards,
>=20
> Philip
>=20
> Philip Rakity
> prakity@u4eatech.com
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
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>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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From: Philip Rakity <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:30:06 -0800
To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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Comments belowl

On Jan 18, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:

>> On Dec 12, 2005, at 11:42 PM, sujay wrote:
>>> b) page 32 --  section 5.1 "Discovery requests MUST be sent
>> by an ...
>>> AND when no echo responses are received and the WTP"    I think it
>>> should say that "Discovery requests MUST be sent by a WTP when the
>>> WTP returns to the idle state.   This can occur for example when no
>>> echo responses are received for NeibhborDeadInteval. "
>>>
>>> Suj> IMHO in the Idle State No Discovery requests are sent, once
>>> entering
>>> the Idle state, the SM moves to Discovery state before sending Disc
>>> Req messages.
>>>
>>> The section talks about when as you rightly pointed out no echo
>>> responses are Received for NeighborDeadInterval.
>>>
>> Thanks --  So does idle state wait the random time interval
>> and then move to discovery or is done in the discovery phase ?
>> If the initial delay is done in the idle phase then the
>> requirement is after no echo packets -- transition to idle phase.
>
> Does the following text solve the issue, or do you need additional
> clarification/changes in the spec?
>
>         Discovery requests MUST be sent by a WTP when no echo  
> responses
> are
>         received for NeighborDeadInterval and the WTP returns to the
> Idle
>         state.  Discovery requests are sent after  
> NeighborDeadInterval,
> they
>         MUST be sent after waiting for a random delay less than
>         MaxDiscoveryInterval.  A WTP MAY send up to a maximum of
> MaxDiscoveries
>         discoveries, waiting for a random delay less than
> MaxDiscoveryInterval
>         between each successive discovery.


TEXT above is fine -- Thank You.

>>
>>> d) Page 37 -- Section 5.2.4  WTP manager control IPV4 address -- do
>>> not understand the text --  is there only one ip address ?
>> if so --
>>> then the ip address is used to return the interface of the AC.  If
>>> only one address -- how is load balancing done ?
>>>
>>> Suj> If the AC has more than one Interfaces open for the WTP to
>>> join, it
>>> specifies each of these ip address's with Individual TLV's,
>>> - right, for single ip interface load balancing cannot be
>> done ,(given
>>> only one AC) the AC should return its own interface Ip address.
>>
>> So the problem is the ip address CAN repeat but this is not
>> reflected in the definition of the length?
> An AC would include one such message element per interface it has. So
> the length is correct.


Could you add a note that message element is repeated per interface  
being sent to the WTP.

>
>>>
>>>
>>> h) Page 65 -- Blacklist Entry's  -- This whole area is not good
>>> from my
>>> point of view.  When I configure a firewall I say what is allowed
>>> (explicitly) and forbid everything else -- there is no way I can
>>> give a
>>> list of trusted stations and forbid everything else.  This
>> makes live
>>> very difficult.  There is room for a blacklist -- but an allowed
>>> list is
>>> also needed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Suj> In my opinion blacklisting is to prevent any .11 mgt
>> frames from
>>> passing upto the AC for the current WTP-AC session.
>>> - to blacklist one MAC address and allow others is more exact and
>>> specific rather than knowing ALL those which are
>>> Allowed, either way the one which is allowed will is kept
>> the Radius,
>>> you could put your 'allowed' list there !
>>
>> I think there is a use for BOTH cases.  in a secure environment I do
>> not want control frames from rogue AP's.
>
> Looks like we are still not in complete agreement on this one. Typical
> 802.11
> Devices include an approved list (known as MAC Filter). It is assumed
> that this
> function is provided w/o CAPWAP involvement, while a blacklist is
> provided
> by CAPWAP. If I understsand correct, you would like a replicated  
> set of
> messages
> to serve as the permit list? Do others agree?

Yes -- My Point.  In a secure environment I want to say what is  
allowed and forbid other things.

>
>>>
>>>
>>> i) Page 70 -- Image Data -- do not understand how this can work --
>>> only
>>> 2 fragments allowed -- no count of what is being sent etc
>> -- no way to
>>> detect packet loss ---  why not use data xfer mechanism of
>> tftp ?  --
>>> the blocks are numbered == etc BUT define a md5 hash of the whole
>>> image
>>> and give its length in the initial request.
>>>
>>> Suj> LWAPP has the in-band Image transfer mechanism, some
>> protocols
>>> use
>>> what you have specified.
>>>
>>
>> I do not understand how this can work as defined in the text.  I
>> understand I could overlay it but it needs a definition.
>
> Could you help identify what needs a definition?


I did not understand (and now do) how this mechanism works.  But I do  
not understand how one knows the transfer is finished?

Is there also another end-case to know if the xfer is beginning ?


>
>>> k) Page 72 -- Section 8.5.2   Duplicate IP address == what is a
>>> host ?  Is this a mobile station ?  What about the case of a mobile
>>> station having the SAME mac address as a already connected mobile
>>> station to the WTP.  == only useful if NOT split mac
>>>
>>> Suj> host here is the WTP itself, MAC address are unique so there
>>> should
>>> not be a case of a  mobile station having
>>> the same MAC address as another one.
>>>
>> Can we change text to say WTP -- thanks
>> Just like there should not be a duplicate IP address in the network
>> there should not be a duplicate MAC address, but MAC addresses are
>> also soft
>> the linux command
>> ifconfig hwether allows one to change the mac address
>
> I'm confused here because the text reads fine to me. I did change host
> to
> IP device, but I don't think this is addressing your original comment.
>


The change to IP device addresses my concern.

> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>

Philip Rakity
prakity@u4eatech.com


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Subject: [Capwap] MTU Discovery Section 6.1 (possible wording)
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We should require MTU discovery and if this is not available then  
require the JOIN request to do this

Change

If the transport used does not provide MTU path discovery, the
    initial Join Request is padded with the Test message element to 1596
    bytes.  If a Join Response is received, the WTP can forward frames
    without requiring any fragmentation.  If no Join Response is
    received, it issues a second Join Request padded with the Test
    payload to a total of 1500 bytes.  The WTP continues to cycle from
    large (1596) to small (1500) packets until a Join Response has been
    received , or until both packets sizes have been retransmitted 3
    times .  If the Join Response is not received after the maximum
    number of retransmissions, the WTP MUST abandon the AC and restart
    the discovery phase.

To
If the transport used does not provide MTU path discovery, the
    initial Join Request is used to perform this function.

The Test message element is used to pad the join request (including  
all headers) to the lesser of the Ethernet MTU and Wireless MTU.

If a Join Response is received, the WTP can forward frames
    without requiring any fragmentation.  If no Join Response is
    received, it issues a second Join Request padded with the Test
    payload to a total of 1500 bytes.  The WTP continues to cycle from
    lesser of the Ethernet MTU and Wireless MTU to small (1500)  
packets until a Join Response has been
    received , or until both packets sizes have been retransmitted 3
    times .  If the Join Response is not received after the maximum
    number of retransmissions, the WTP MUST abandon the AC and restart
    the discovery phase.

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:55:32 -0800
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: <Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Addressing the next round of comments.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com [mailto:Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:03 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
>=20
>=20
> I was re-reading the specification on the airplane and found=20
> the following items that may need addressing.  I do not have=20
> access to my previous e-mail so I may have duplicate comments=20
> from before.
>=20
> regards,
>=20
> Philip
>=20
>=20
> Page 15 Join to Join Confirm
> WTP -- the Join Response must include a valid <=3D=3D valid is =
mis-spelled
Done

>=20
> Page 16:  Image Data to Image Data
> WTP:  Response that indicates that the AC has more data to send
>=20
> I did not see in the definition of the Image Data how the WTP=20
> knows there is more data to come from the AC.

The Image Data message element specifies:

    The Image Data field contains 1024 characters, unless the payload=20
    being sent is the last one (end of file)

This means that a packet whose field does not include 1024 characters is
the last one. However, if the last packet is of length 1024, a clause is

required that specifies that a zero length payload needs to be
transmitted.

>=20
> Page 18:  4th item -- This is the AC's normal state of operation, ...
> delete the phrasethat says [, and there are many events that=20
> cause this to occur.]
Ok

>=20
> Page 26 last paragraph
> In the event the WTP and AC are separated by a NAT, delete=20
> the remark in between the comma's with the WTP using private=20
> IP address space,
I agree

>=20
> It is always the responsibility of NAT to manage the connection
>=20
> Page 27:  LWAPP Packet Definitions
>=20
> is the 802.11 FCS included in the LWAPP packets or not.  If=20
> so, how does one know that this is occuring.

Yes, I caught this during the fixups. So I have cleaned up the "LWAPP
Data Messages" section to include:
4.1.  LWAPP Data Messages

   An LWAPP data message is a forwarded wireless frame.  When forwarding
   wireless frames, the sender simply encapsulates the wireless frame in
   an LWAPP data packet, using the appropriate transport rules defined
   in section Section 3.

   In the event that the encapsulated frame would exceed the transport
   layer's MTU, the sender is responsible for the fragmentation of the
   frame, as specified in the transport specific section of Section 3.

   The actual format of the encapsulated LWAPP data frame is subject to
   the rules defined under the specific wireless technology binding.  As
   a consequence, each wireless technology binding MUST define a section
   entitled "Payload encapsulation", which defines the format of the
   wireless payload that is encapsulated within the LWAPP Data messages.

Then I created the IEEE 802.11 binding section text:

11.3.1.  Payload encapsulation

   The LWAPP protocol defines the data frame, which allows a wireless
   payload to be encapsulated.  For IEEE 802.11, the 802.11 header and
   payload is encapsulated.  However, it is important to note that the
   802.11 FCS checksum is handled by the WTP.  This allows the WTP to
   validate a frame prior to sending it to the AC.  Similarly, when an
   AC wishes to transmit a frame towards a station, the WTP computes and
   adds the FCS checksum.

>=20
> Page 59:  7.2.6 WTP Static IP Address Information
>=20
> add note to say that IP Address/ Netmask/ Gateway are only=20
> valid if static is 1 =3D=3D or rearrange structure so that static=20
> is first element and other elements follow if static is 1.

Fixed

>=20
> Page 90:  2nd sentence should read:  The probe request is then sent
Done

>=20
> Page 95:
> WLAN ID bit mask -- define which bit maps to which BSSID in=20
> reading the ieee spec the bits start of the left but I think=20
> here bit 0 is on the right.
Sorry, I don't follow

>=20
> Page 97:  Supported Rates
> I think this IE is between 1 and 8 octets -- if the length of=20
> the IE is not passed than the VLAN Name's starting position=20
> cannot be known.
Changed the data structure to:

[...]
     | 802.11e Mode  |      Qos      |Length of Rates|Supported Rates|
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |                        Supported Rates                        |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |Supported Rates|  VLAN Name...
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>=20
> Page 99:  VLAN Name --  do not understand "with local MAC WTPs"
Changed text to:
         An optional variable string containing the VLAN Name on which
the
	   WTP is to locally bridge user data. Note this field is only
valid
	   with WTPs configured in Local MAC mode.
>=20
> Page 101:  VLAN Identifier:  PRC  =3D=3D  What is a PRC ?
A PRC is an editor who forgets to remove his initials from the draft.
The new
Text reads:
         The VLAN to assign to the mobile station being updated. Note
that this
         field is only valid if per station VLAN assignment is being
enforced
         on the WTP.

>=20
> Page 113:  Add note on Number of BSSID's :  range 1 to 16

Done.
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All,
=20
I believe that I've entered all entries posted to the list after
November 1st. If you have any change requests on the list prior to that
date, please forward them to me.
=20
The issue tracker can be found at www.capwap.org. Please note that if
you search with no filters, you will find both open and resolved bugs. A
normal "Show All" does not display the resolved issues.
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D634425521-18012006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D634425521-18012006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D634425521-18012006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I =
believe that I've=20
entered all entries posted to the list after November 1st. If you have =
any=20
change requests on the list prior to that date, please forward them to=20
me.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D634425521-18012006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D634425521-18012006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The =
issue tracker=20
can be found at <A href=3D"http://www.capwap.org">www.capwap.org</A>. =
Please note=20
that if you search with no filters, you will find both open and resolved =
bugs. A=20
normal "Show All" does not display the resolved =
issues.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
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From krista@hammerhead.com Wed Jan 18 17:22:52 2006
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Subject: [Capwap] WLAN ID comment and thanks
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Thanks -- My WLAN ID comment  is probably clearer.  I hope.


                0                   1
                  0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5
                 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
                 |          WLAN ID(s)           |
                 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

What is bit 0 == indicating the base bssid ?  I think it the field  
labeled 15 and the field labeled 00 is the 16th entry (counting from  
one).

Philip


On Jan 18, 2006, at 1:55 PM, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:

> Addressing the next round of comments.
>
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com [mailto:Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com]
>> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:03 PM
>> To: capwap@frascone.com
>> Subject: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
>>
>>
>> I was re-reading the specification on the airplane and found
>> the following items that may need addressing.  I do not have
>> access to my previous e-mail so I may have duplicate comments
>> from before.
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Philip
>>
>>
>> Page 15 Join to Join Confirm
>> WTP -- the Join Response must include a valid <== valid is mis- 
>> spelled
> Done
>
>>
>> Page 16:  Image Data to Image Data
>> WTP:  Response that indicates that the AC has more data to send
>>
>> I did not see in the definition of the Image Data how the WTP
>> knows there is more data to come from the AC.
>
> The Image Data message element specifies:
>
>     The Image Data field contains 1024 characters, unless the payload
>     being sent is the last one (end of file)
>
> This means that a packet whose field does not include 1024  
> characters is
> the last one. However, if the last packet is of length 1024, a  
> clause is
>
> required that specifies that a zero length payload needs to be
> transmitted.
>
>>
>> Page 18:  4th item -- This is the AC's normal state of operation, ...
>> delete the phrasethat says [, and there are many events that
>> cause this to occur.]
> Ok
>
>>
>> Page 26 last paragraph
>> In the event the WTP and AC are separated by a NAT, delete
>> the remark in between the comma's with the WTP using private
>> IP address space,
> I agree
>
>>
>> It is always the responsibility of NAT to manage the connection
>>
>> Page 27:  LWAPP Packet Definitions
>>
>> is the 802.11 FCS included in the LWAPP packets or not.  If
>> so, how does one know that this is occuring.
>
> Yes, I caught this during the fixups. So I have cleaned up the "LWAPP
> Data Messages" section to include:
> 4.1.  LWAPP Data Messages
>
>    An LWAPP data message is a forwarded wireless frame.  When  
> forwarding
>    wireless frames, the sender simply encapsulates the wireless  
> frame in
>    an LWAPP data packet, using the appropriate transport rules defined
>    in section Section 3.
>
>    In the event that the encapsulated frame would exceed the transport
>    layer's MTU, the sender is responsible for the fragmentation of the
>    frame, as specified in the transport specific section of Section 3.
>
>    The actual format of the encapsulated LWAPP data frame is  
> subject to
>    the rules defined under the specific wireless technology  
> binding.  As
>    a consequence, each wireless technology binding MUST define a  
> section
>    entitled "Payload encapsulation", which defines the format of the
>    wireless payload that is encapsulated within the LWAPP Data  
> messages.
>
> Then I created the IEEE 802.11 binding section text:
>
> 11.3.1.  Payload encapsulation
>
>    The LWAPP protocol defines the data frame, which allows a wireless
>    payload to be encapsulated.  For IEEE 802.11, the 802.11 header and
>    payload is encapsulated.  However, it is important to note that the
>    802.11 FCS checksum is handled by the WTP.  This allows the WTP to
>    validate a frame prior to sending it to the AC.  Similarly, when an
>    AC wishes to transmit a frame towards a station, the WTP  
> computes and
>    adds the FCS checksum.
>
>>
>> Page 59:  7.2.6 WTP Static IP Address Information
>>
>> add note to say that IP Address/ Netmask/ Gateway are only
>> valid if static is 1 == or rearrange structure so that static
>> is first element and other elements follow if static is 1.
>
> Fixed
>
>>
>> Page 90:  2nd sentence should read:  The probe request is then sent
> Done
>
>>
>> Page 95:
>> WLAN ID bit mask -- define which bit maps to which BSSID in
>> reading the ieee spec the bits start of the left but I think
>> here bit 0 is on the right.
> Sorry, I don't follow
>
>>
>> Page 97:  Supported Rates
>> I think this IE is between 1 and 8 octets -- if the length of
>> the IE is not passed than the VLAN Name's starting position
>> cannot be known.
> Changed the data structure to:
>
> [...]
>      | 802.11e Mode  |      Qos      |Length of Rates|Supported Rates|
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |                        Supported Rates                        |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |Supported Rates|  VLAN Name...
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>> Page 99:  VLAN Name --  do not understand "with local MAC WTPs"
> Changed text to:
>          An optional variable string containing the VLAN Name on which
> the
> 	   WTP is to locally bridge user data. Note this field is only
> valid
> 	   with WTPs configured in Local MAC mode.
>>
>> Page 101:  VLAN Identifier:  PRC  ==  What is a PRC ?
> A PRC is an editor who forgets to remove his initials from the draft.
> The new
> Text reads:
>          The VLAN to assign to the mobile station being updated. Note
> that this
>          field is only valid if per station VLAN assignment is being
> enforced
>          on the WTP.
>
>>
>> Page 113:  Add note on Number of BSSID's :  range 1 to 16
>
> Done.
>

Philip Rakity
prakity@u4eatech.com


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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
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Thread-topic: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
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From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
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Hi Pat,

I'll send the issues in separate notes. In general, they follow the
issues list from the last meeting.

Saravanan



-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:41 AM
To: Saravanan Govindan; Philip Rakity; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP

Saravanan,

In order to ensure that I am tracking all of the issues properly, could
you please be more specific in your change recommendations below? I do
have the field size one already, as this was in the eval draft.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 11:08 PM
> To: Philip Rakity; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
>=20
> Hi Philip,
>=20
> You have clearly reviewed the draft in detail! I think the=20
> points you raise are very important for the protocol.=20
>=20
> Perhaps some recommendations can be made based on the points=20
> raised. I think it would be helpful for the WG to see how the=20
> recommendations can fit in to the current LWAPP specifications.=20
>=20
> On a related note, I think the first WG version of the=20
> protocol can also include those issues which were discussed=20
> during the last meeting. There seemed to be some agreement in=20
> the issues such as information elements field size, firmware=20
> operations and local-MAC mode operations.=20
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> Saravanan
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:35 AM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
>=20
>=20
> I am a newbie to the group and this the first time that I have read
> the internet draft.  I have a number of comments on the draft that
> are below.  Most a minor editorial things but some are areas I do not
> understand
>=20
> a) Use of "integer" is not consistent in the document --- most of the
> time it means unsigned, sometimes signed (but marked as signed), but
> sometimes the phrase "unsigned integer" is used and this then makes
> me wonder if the fields marked integer are signed or not.
>=20
> b) page 32 --  section 5.1 "Discovery requests MUST be sent by an ...
> AND when no echo responses are received and the WTP"    I think it
> should say that "Discovery requests MUST be sent by a WTP when the
> WTP returns to the idle state.   This can occur for example when no
> echo responses are received for NeibhborDeadInteval. "
>=20
> c) Page 35 -- Radio Type --  no 802.11b (only) -- no 802.11n -- no
> superG -- no superA
>=20
> d) Page 37 -- Section 5.2.4  WTP manager control IPV4 address -- do
> not understand the text --  is there only one ip address ?  if so --
> then the ip address is used to return the interface of the AC.  If
> only one address -- how is load balancing done ?
>=20
> e) Page 41 -- Section 6.1  Join Request  -- 3rd paragraph -- Why the
> 1596 MTU limit -- how was this number chosen ? =3D=3D (RIF routes if
> vlan ?)  if I use 802.3 then I have seen h/w do 1522 (4 byte vlan
> tag) -- some number a little bigger than 1522 and h/w do 16K bytes --
> (intel ixp 4xx series) ---  The 16K number is bigger than the 4k SDU
> for wireless medium...  Would it be better to base the discovery on
> the MTU of the wireless media and work down ?
>=20
> f) Page 52 -- Section 6.5 and Section 6.6 -- Change item that says
> see Figure 2 -- to read see section 2.2
>=20
> g) Page 60 -- REboot Statistics =3D=3D this requires the WTP maintain
> state to know if the last Failure Type was LWAPP initiated.   Same
> comment for Crash count.  No value defined for state not maintained
> by WTP.  Add cross reference to section where AC tells WTP to reboot.
>=20
> h) Page 65 -- Blacklist Entry's  -- This whole area is not good from
> my point of view.  When I configure a firewall I say what is allowed
> (explicitly) and forbid everything else -- there is no way I can give
> a list of trusted stations and forbid everything else.  This makes
> live very difficult.  There is room for a blacklist -- but an allowed
> list is also needed.
>=20
> i) Page 70 -- Image Data -- do not understand how this can work --
> only 2 fragments allowed -- no count of what is being sent etc -- no
> way to detect packet loss ---  why not use data xfer mechanism of
> tftp ?  -- the blocks are numbered =3D=3D etc BUT define a md5 hash of
> the whole image and give its length in the initial request.
>=20
> j) Page 72 -- Section 8.5.1 Decryption Error Report   =3D=3D add note
> about only useful if split mac.
>=20
> k) Page 72 -- Section 8.5.2   Duplicate IP address =3D=3D what is a
> host ?  Is this a mobile station ?  What about the case of a mobile
> station having the SAME mac address as a already connected mobile
> station to the WTP.  =3D=3D only useful if NOT split mac
>=20
> l) General comment -- there is no command to synchronize  time (set
> the clocks) in the WTP to a common time base
>=20
> j) General comment -- why not use the text in the 802.11 MIB
> definitions and the name of the MIB entry where these are used to
> configure the WTP
>=20
> k) Page 94 -- Section 11.3.1 -- WLAN's field -- just do NOT
> understand how setting a bit relates to the WLAN ID's used later in
> the document -- can you give an example or two ?  Only 16 WLAN ID's
> allowed ??/
>=20
> l) Page 97 -- WLAN ID -- field is 8 bits -- other places in document
> 16 bits
>=20
> m) Page 102 -- IEEE 802.11 stats -- Why not pad out Radio ID with 3
> bytes of "reserved field" so all other fields are 32 bit aligned or
> move it to the end of definition (after decryption errors).
>=20
> n) Page 105 -- WLAN ID -- picture is 8 bits -- text is 16 bits
>=20
> o) Page 109 WLAN Capability -- can you rename this and ALL other
> fields to use the same terms as the 802.11 base standard or the MIB
> (very confusing) -- or cross reference
>=20
> p) Page 113 -- Country Code -- reference 802.11d since this is the
> definition
>=20
> q) Page 113 -- Rate Set -- is length wrong ?  should be >=3D 2
> otherwise what is definition for rates NOT used
>=20
> r) Page 115 -- RTS Threshold etc -- use wording from the MIB
> definitions for all of these entries and reference mib object
>=20
> s) Page 119 -- IEEE Antenna length -- length sound be >=3D 5
>=20
> t) Page 120 -- Supported rates -- length >=3D 2 and <=3D 9
>=20
> u) Page 122 - WTP Qos -- length is 2 if untagged or 802.1p  -- if
> dscp it is 2 + (10)*dscp entries
>=20
> v) Security -- any reason ssl could not be used even for level 2
> encryption?  since the link is PT to PT -- the ip address/header is
> not need -- then almost same code as layer 3 -- and the package is
> public domain so easy to hack
>=20
> regards,
>=20
> Philip
>=20
> Philip Rakity
> prakity@u4eatech.com
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20

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Pat,

=20

Issue: The Evaluation draft (draft-ietf-capwap-eval-00.txt) in Section
6.5 recommends the state machine to support triggering of firmware
checks and updates independent of other operations.=20

=20

My recommendation: To introduce a Firmware-Update state after the
Configure state (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 2.2.

=20

Saravanan


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font-family:Arial'>Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue: The Evaluation draft =
(draft-ietf-capwap-eval-00.txt) in
Section 6.5 recommends the state machine to support triggering of =
firmware
checks and updates independent of other operations. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My recommendation: To introduce a Firmware-Update =
state
after the Configure state (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section =
2.2.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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Thread-topic: Default mode for logical groups
Thread-index: AcYcl5TWMIIGbIwiRmOufZe4zQIvuQ==
From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] Default mode for logical groups
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Pat,

=20

Issue:=20

Assign a default mode for configuring logical groups
(draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments.
This makes for consistent configuration and management across logical
groups.=20

=20

=20

My recommendation:

Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config message
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map wired-segment
VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and most common
case for logical groups.=20

=20

Then include description of logical group configuration in BSSID to WLAN
ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4).=20

=20


Saravanan


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Assign a default mode for configuring logical groups
(draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments. =
This
makes for consistent configuration and management across logical groups. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My recommendation:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config =
message
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map wired-segment =
VLANs to
wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and most common case for =
logical
groups. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Then include description of logical group =
configuration in
BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section =
11.4). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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Thread-topic: PMK Sharing
Thread-index: AcYcmU+6qksdXfRCS8Sx+WQAWUWX3A==
From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Pat,

=20

Issue:

In the case of an AC managing a same PMK across many WTPs, IEEE 802.11
stations cannot distinguish between PMKs that are validly shared and
those that have been compromised (I0 of Issues/Recommendations).

=20

My recommendation:

Include text in the Security Considerations
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 15 along the lines;

=20

"The CAPWAP protocol may be used in scenarios in which an AC manages a
PMK across many WTPs. In such scenarios, IEEE 802.11 stations moving
across WTPs cannot distinguish between PMKs that are legitimately shared
and PMKs that have been compromised.=20

=20

The CAPWAP WG recognizes this ambiguity and recommends implementers of
the protocol to review the outcome of IEEE 802.11r efforts for
resolution."

=20


Saravanan=20

=20

=20


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>In the case of an AC managing a same PMK across many =
WTPs, IEEE
802.11 stations cannot distinguish between PMKs that are validly shared =
and
those that have been compromised (I0 of =
Issues/Recommendations).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My recommendation:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Include text in the Security Considerations =
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt)
Section 15 along the lines;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&#8220;The CAPWAP protocol may be used in scenarios =
in which
an AC manages a PMK across many WTPs. In such scenarios, IEEE 802.11 =
stations moving
across WTPs cannot distinguish between PMKs that are legitimately shared =
and
PMKs that have been compromised. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The CAPWAP WG recognizes this ambiguity and =
recommends
implementers of the protocol to review the outcome of IEEE 802.11r =
efforts for
resolution.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Saravanan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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Thread-topic: IEEE 802.11i Considerations
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From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Pat,





Issue:

In cases where IEEE 802.11i encryption/decryption is located in a WTP
and IEEE 802.11i authenticator is located in an AC, there is a mismatch
in tracking KeyRSC values (draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section
5.1.10. The CAPWAP protocol must allow the 4-way and Group-key exchanges
to use accurate values of KeyRSC and KeyMIC in all cases.=20

=20

My recommendation:

Introduce new Key Configuration & Key Configuration Response messages as
part of Message Types (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 4.2.1.1.
Key Configuration message will be used to exchange 3rd message (for
4-way exchange & with unassigned KeyMIC and KeyRSC fields) and 1st
message (for group-key exchange & with unassigned KeyMIC and KeyRSC
fields).=20

=20

Describe use of Key Configuration as part of WTP Configuration
Management (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-o3.txt) Section 7.=20

=20

=20

Saravanan=20

=20

=20


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>In cases where IEEE 802.11i encryption/decryption is =
located
in a WTP and IEEE 802.11i authenticator is located in an AC, there is a =
mismatch
in tracking KeyRSC values (draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section =
5.1.10.
The CAPWAP protocol must allow the 4-way and Group-key exchanges to use
accurate values of KeyRSC and KeyMIC in all cases. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My recommendation:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Introduce new Key Configuration &amp; Key =
Configuration
Response messages as part of Message Types =
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt)
Section 4.2.1.1. Key Configuration message will be used to exchange =
3<sup>rd</sup>
message (for 4-way exchange &amp; with unassigned KeyMIC and KeyRSC =
fields) and
1<sup>st</sup> message (for group-key exchange &amp; with unassigned =
KeyMIC and
KeyRSC fields). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Describe use of Key Configuration as part of WTP =
Configuration
Management (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-o3.txt) Section 7. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Saravanan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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Thread-Topic: Local MAC Tunneling Mode
Thread-Index: AcYHe2JXbjfQ/iSmSNGzkQlPLn0lqgVJrOjQ
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
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Saravanan,
=20
Thanks for the contributed text. I have slightly changed the text you
proposed in order to allow a WTP to provide more than one mode of
operation and allow the AC to pick which mode it wants (based on some
internal policy).
=20
The Discovery Request now includes:=20

5.1.4.  WTP MAC Type

   The WTP MAC-Type message element allows the WTP to communicate its
   mode of operation to the AC.  A WTP that advertises support for both
   modes allows the AC to dictate the mode to use, based on some local
   policy decision.

      0                 =20
      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |   MAC Type    |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   Type:  TBD for WTP MAC Type

   Length:  1

   MAC Type:  The MAC mode of operation supported by the WTP.  The
      following values are supported

      0 - Local-MAC:  Local-MAC is the default mode that MUST be
         supported by all WTPs.

      1 - Split-MAC:  Split-MAC support is optional, and allows the AC
         to receive and process native wireless frames.

      2 - Both:  WTP is capable of supporting both Local-MAC and Split-
         MAC.

5.1.5.  WTP Frame Type

   The WTP Frame-Type message element allows the WTP to communicate its
   supported tunneling modes of operation to the AC.  A WTP that
   advertises support for all modes allows the AC to dictate which mode
   whill be used, based on its local policy.

      0             =20
      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |   Frame Type  |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   Type:  TBD for WTP Frame Type

   Length:  1

   Frame Type:  The Frame type specifies the encapsulation modes
      supported by the WTP.  The following values are supported

      0 - Local Briding:  Local Bridging allows the WTP to perform the
         bridging function.  Note this value MUST NOT be used when the
         MAC Type is set to Split-MAC.

      1 - 802.3 Bridging:  802.3 Bridging requires the WTP and AC to
         encapsulate all user payload as native 802.3 frames (see
         Section 4.2).  Note this value MUST NOT be used when the MAC
         Type is set to Split-MAC.

      2 - Native Bridging:  Native Bridging requires the WTP and AC to
         encapsulate all user payloads as native wireless frames, as
         defined by the wireless binding (see Section 4.2).

      3 - All:  The WTP is capable of supporting all frame types.

However, I have also allowed the message elements to be included in the
Join Response, allowing the AC to specify which modes it wants the WTP
to use. I have also included your proposed text under Configuration
Consistency, but it is less clear to me that this specific text is
mandatory, but would like to hear from others on whether they feel this
helps clarify the protocol.
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 8:43 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: Local MAC Tunneling Mode
=09
=09

	Pat,=20

	=20

	Thank you for summarizing the major recommendations.=20
=09
	The following is some proposed additions relating to the local
MAC tunneling mode recommendation. In essence, it adds identifiers for
the WTP variations and their modes of operation. I look forward to the
WG's review on this.

	=20

	=20

	Section: 5.1      Discover Request=20

	Type of change: Additional text after 1st paragraph, ("The
Discovery Request is used by the WTP...")

	Proposal:=20

	                        "The Discovery Request provides ACs with
primary functionalities of the WTP. A WTP must exchange this information
to ensure subsequent exchanges with the ACs are consistent with the
WTP's functional characteristics."

	            ------------------

	=20

	            Section: 5         LWAPP Discovery Operations=20

	Type of change: Additional message elements

	Proposal-1:

	            "5.1.3               WTP MAC-Type

	The WTP MAC-Type message element distinguishes between local-MAC
and split-MAC WTPs. It is used by the AC to determine subsequent
exchanges with the WTP.

	Type:=20

	Length: 1

	MAC-Type: An 8-bits value indicating the type of MAC used by the
WTP.=20

	=20

	The following values are supported:

	0 - Split-MAC

	1 - Local-MAC"

	=20

	            Proposal-2:

	                        "5.1.4               WTP Frame Type

	The WTP Frame Type message element is used to determine the
nature of frames to be exchanged between the AC and WTP.

	Type:=20

	Length: 1

	Frame Type: An 8-bits value indicating the type of frames to be
exchanged between the AC and WTP.=20

	=20

	The following values are supported:

	0 - Native frames=20

	1 - Tunneled frames (IEEE 802.3)

	2 - No frames (local bridge at WTP)"

	            ---------------------

	=20

	            Section: 7.1                  Configuration
Consistency=20

	Type of change: Addition of sub-section to Section 7.1=20

	Proposal:=20

	            "7.1.1               Configuration Flexibility

	"The protocol also provides the flexibility to configure and
manage WTPs of varying design and functional characteristics. When a WTP
first discovers an AC, it provides primary functional information
relating to its type of MAC and to the nature of frames to be exchanged.
The AC configures the WTP appropriately. The AC also establishes
corresponding internal operations to deal with the WTP according to its
functionalities."

	            ----------------------

	=20

	It may be useful to use a figure to show how the modes are
selected and what happens afterwards. I can help prepare one if there is
agreement to do so.

=09
	Saravanan=20

	=20
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Subject: [Capwap] RE: PMK Sharing
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I guess I will once more raise my concern that there is nothing specific
about CAPWAP that changes how one implements 802.11, or 802.1X for that
matter. Could I get a better understanding of why the eval team believe
this statement is required in the CAPWAP protocol?
=20
Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
=20


________________________________

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:40 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: PMK Sharing
=09
=09

	Pat,

	=20

	Issue:

	In the case of an AC managing a same PMK across many WTPs, IEEE
802.11 stations cannot distinguish between PMKs that are validly shared
and those that have been compromised (I0 of Issues/Recommendations).

	=20

	My recommendation:

	Include text in the Security Considerations
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 15 along the lines;

	=20

	"The CAPWAP protocol may be used in scenarios in which an AC
manages a PMK across many WTPs. In such scenarios, IEEE 802.11 stations
moving across WTPs cannot distinguish between PMKs that are legitimately
shared and PMKs that have been compromised.=20

	=20

	The CAPWAP WG recognizes this ambiguity and recommends
implementers of the protocol to review the outcome of IEEE 802.11r
efforts for resolution."

	=20

=09
	Saravanan=20

	=20

	=20
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Thread-Topic: Default mode for logical groups
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
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Subject: [Capwap] RE: Default mode for logical groups
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Thanks for the e-mail. I recall this conversation, but I believe where I
am getting confused is what we believe is missing.=20
=20
I believe we can agree that if *any* form of tunneling is occuring, then
no mapping is required since VLANs will be enforced on the AC. Further,
the protocol already has a provision to specify the VLAN to associate
with a given user when Local MAC is used.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:28 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: Default mode for logical groups
=09
=09

	Pat,

	=20

	Issue:=20

	Assign a default mode for configuring logical groups
(draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments.
This makes for consistent configuration and management across logical
groups.=20

	=20

	=20

	My recommendation:

	Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config message
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map wired-segment
VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and most common
case for logical groups.=20

	=20

	Then include description of logical group configuration in BSSID
to WLAN ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4).=20

	=20

=09
	Saravanan


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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D959415502-19012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Thanks=20
for the e-mail. I recall this conversation, but I believe where I am =
getting=20
confused is what we believe is missing. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D959415502-19012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D959415502-19012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I=20
believe we can agree that if *any* form of tunneling is occuring, then =
no=20
mapping is required since VLANs will be enforced on the AC. Further, the =

protocol already has a provision to specify the VLAN to associate with a =
given=20
user when Local MAC is used.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from =
text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan=20
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Wednesday,=20
  January 18, 2006 5:28 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Default mode for logical=20
  groups<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue:=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Assign a default mode =
for=20
  configuring logical groups (draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) =
Section 5.1.1=20
  and (draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless =
segments.=20
  This makes for consistent configuration and management across logical =
groups.=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My=20
  recommendation:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Introduce a message =
element in the=20
  WLAN Config message (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 =
to map=20
  wired-segment VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest =
and most=20
  common case for logical groups. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Then include description =
of=20
  logical group configuration in BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping=20
  (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4).=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><BR>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BOD=
Y></HTML>

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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
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I would have thought that the group would want it after the Run state,
no?=20
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:17 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: Firmware Trigger
=09
=09

	Pat,

	=20

	Issue: The Evaluation draft (draft-ietf-capwap-eval-00.txt) in
Section 6.5 recommends the state machine to support triggering of
firmware checks and updates independent of other operations.=20

	=20

	My recommendation: To introduce a Firmware-Update state after
the Configure state (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 2.2.

	=20

	Saravanan


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would have thought that the group would want it after the Run state, no? =

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  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan=20
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Wednesday,=20
  January 18, 2006 5:17 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Firmware =
Trigger<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue: The Evaluation =
draft=20
  (draft-ietf-capwap-eval-00.txt) in Section 6.5 recommends the state =
machine to=20
  support triggering of firmware checks and updates independent of other =

  operations. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My recommendation: To =
introduce a=20
  Firmware-Update state after the Configure state=20
  (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section =
2.2.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></=
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Thread-topic: Local-MAC & Split-MAC Negotiations
Thread-index: AcYcpUMf740yQ5RlQquDnQJZAhQclw==
From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Pat,

=20


Issue:

The CAPWAP protocol is expected to support major WTP designs. It is
important for information on these design types to be exchanged during
configuration so that subsequent protocol operations are consistent and
accurate.=20

=20

My recommendation:

To specify WTP characteristics as part of Discovery state
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5. The following message
elements to be included to Discovery Request
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5.1;

=20

MAC Type - Split-MAC, Local-MAC

MAC Frame Type - Native (IEEE 802.11), IEEE 802.3, No frames (local
bridging)

IEEE 802.11i Design - Encryption & Authenticator on same entity,
Encryption on WTP & Authenticator on AC

=20

=20

=20

Saravanan=20


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Issue:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The CAPWAP protocol is expected to support major WTP
designs. It is important for information on these design types to be =
exchanged
during configuration so that subsequent protocol operations are =
consistent and
accurate. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My recommendation:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>To specify WTP characteristics as part of Discovery =
state (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt)
Section 5. The following message elements to be included to Discovery =
Request (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt)
Section 5.1;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>MAC Type &#8211; Split-MAC, =
Local-MAC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>MAC Frame Type &#8211; Native (IEEE 802.11), IEEE =
802.3, No
frames (local bridging)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>IEEE 802.11i Design &#8211; Encryption &amp; =
Authenticator
on same entity, Encryption on WTP &amp; Authenticator on =
AC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Saravanan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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Thread-topic: Default mode for logical groups
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From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
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Pat,

=20

I see your point.=20

=20

My concern is with the operation of the consistent operation of the
protocol. So if we were to design in such a way that each logical group
- or WLAN  - is a VLAN + a BSSID, then it makes configuring local-MAC
and split-MAC WTPs similar.=20

=20

I think the current protocol already does what we are talking about in
some form. It would be nice to bring out how logical group configuration
works is a common way for local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs.

=20

Do you think this is the case?

Saravanan=20

=20

=20

=20

________________________________

From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:57 AM
To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

=20

Thanks for the e-mail. I recall this conversation, but I believe where I
am getting confused is what we believe is missing.=20

=20

I believe we can agree that if *any* form of tunneling is occuring, then
no mapping is required since VLANs will be enforced on the AC. Further,
the protocol already has a provision to specify the VLAN to associate
with a given user when Local MAC is used.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:28 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: Default mode for logical groups

	Pat,

	=20

	Issue:=20

	Assign a default mode for configuring logical groups
(draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments.
This makes for consistent configuration and management across logical
groups.=20

	=20

	=20

	My recommendation:

	Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config message
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map wired-segment
VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and most common
case for logical groups.=20

	=20

	Then include description of logical group configuration in BSSID
to WLAN ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4).=20

	=20

=09
	Saravanan


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font-family:Arial'>I see your point. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My concern is with the operation of the consistent =
operation
of the protocol. So if we were to design in such a way that each logical =
group -
or WLAN &nbsp;- is a VLAN + a BSSID, then it makes configuring local-MAC =
and
split-MAC WTPs similar. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I think the current protocol already does what we are
talking about in some form. It would be nice to bring out how logical =
group
configuration works is a common way for local-MAC and split-MAC =
WTPs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Do you think this is the case?<br>
<br>
Saravanan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Pat =
Calhoun
(pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
19, 2006
10:57 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Saravanan
 Govindan</st1:PersonName>; capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Default mode =
for
logical groups</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thanks for the e-mail. I recall =
this
conversation, but I believe where I am getting confused is what we =
believe is
missing. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I believe we can agree that if =
*any* form
of tunneling is occuring, then no mapping is required since VLANs will =
be
enforced on the AC. Further, the protocol already has a provision to =
specify
the VLAN to associate with a given user when Local MAC is =
used.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat
Calhoun<br>
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<br>
Cisco Systems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January =
18, 2006
5:28 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Pat Calhoun =
(pacalhou);
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Default mode for =
logical
groups</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Assign a default mode for configuring logical groups
(draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments. =
This
makes for consistent configuration and management across logical groups. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My recommendation:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config =
message
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map wired-segment =
VLANs to
wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and most common case for =
logical
groups. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Then include description of logical group =
configuration in
BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section =
11.4). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</blockquote>

</div>

</body>

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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
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I think the crux of the problem is that in Local MAC the bridging
function is provided by the WTP, and therefore it needs a VLAN. However,
pushing this to a WTP when bridging is performed in the AC would be
pointless since the WTP is never connected to a trunk. Unfortunately, by
relocating the bridging function, there is no way to make this common :(
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:17 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups
=09
=09

	Pat,

	=20

	I see your point.=20

	=20

	My concern is with the operation of the consistent operation of
the protocol. So if we were to design in such a way that each logical
group - or WLAN  - is a VLAN + a BSSID, then it makes configuring
local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs similar.=20

	=20

	I think the current protocol already does what we are talking
about in some form. It would be nice to bring out how logical group
configuration works is a common way for local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs.

	=20

	Do you think this is the case?
=09
	Saravanan=20

	=20

	=20

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
	Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:57 AM
	To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

	=20

	Thanks for the e-mail. I recall this conversation, but I believe
where I am getting confused is what we believe is missing.=20

	=20

	I believe we can agree that if *any* form of tunneling is
occuring, then no mapping is required since VLANs will be enforced on
the AC. Further, the protocol already has a provision to specify the
VLAN to associate with a given user when Local MAC is used.

	Pat Calhoun
	CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
	Cisco Systems

	=20

		=20

	=09
________________________________


		From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
		Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:28 PM
		To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: Default mode for logical groups

		Pat,

		=20

		Issue:=20

		Assign a default mode for configuring logical groups
(draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments.
This makes for consistent configuration and management across logical
groups.=20

		=20

		=20

		My recommendation:

		Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config message
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map wired-segment
VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and most common
case for logical groups.=20

		=20

		Then include description of logical group configuration
in BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section
11.4).=20

		=20

	=09
		Saravanan


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<DIV><SPAN class=3D639331603-19012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I=20
think the crux of the problem is that in Local MAC the bridging function =
is=20
provided by the WTP, and therefore it needs a VLAN. However, pushing =
this to a=20
WTP when bridging is performed in the AC would be pointless since the =
WTP is=20
never connected to a trunk. Unfortunately, by relocating the bridging =
function,=20
there is no way to make this common :(</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan=20
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Wednesday,=20
  January 18, 2006 7:17 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Default mode for logical=20
  groups<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I see your point.=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My concern is with the =
operation=20
  of the consistent operation of the protocol. So if we were to design =
in such a=20
  way that each logical group - or WLAN &nbsp;- is a VLAN + a BSSID, =
then it=20
  makes configuring local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs similar.=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think the current =
protocol=20
  already does what we are talking about in some form. It would be nice =
to bring=20
  out how logical group configuration works is a common way for =
local-MAC and=20
  split-MAC WTPs.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Do you think this is the =

  case?<BR><BR>Saravanan <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma"> Pat=20
  Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, January 19, =
2006 10:57=20
  AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
<st1:PersonName=20
  w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>; =
capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: Default mode for =
logical=20
  groups</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for =
the=20
  e-mail. I recall this conversation, but I believe where I am getting =
confused=20
  is what we believe is missing. </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I believe =
we can=20
  agree that if *any* form of tunneling is occuring, then no mapping is =
required=20
  since VLANs will be enforced on the AC. Further, the protocol already =
has a=20
  provision to specify the VLAN to associate with a given user when =
Local MAC is=20
  used.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat=20
  Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<BR>Cisco=20
  Systems<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt =
3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: =
medium none">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
    </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
    size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
    face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">=20
    <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>=20
    [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, January 18, =
2006 5:28=20
    PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Pat =
Calhoun=20
    (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Default mode for =
logical=20
    groups</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue:=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Assign a default mode =
for=20
    configuring logical groups (draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) =
Section=20
    5.1.1 and (draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and =
wireless=20
    segments. This makes for consistent configuration and management =
across=20
    logical groups. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My=20
    recommendation:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Introduce a message =
element in=20
    the WLAN Config message (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section =
11.8.2 to=20
    map wired-segment VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the =
simplest and=20
    most common case for logical groups. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Then include =
description of=20
    logical group configuration in BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping=20
    (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4).=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><BR>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLO=
CKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Jan 18 22:30:44 2006
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Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:28:03 -0500 (EST)
From: "T. Charles Clancy" <clancy@cs.umd.edu>
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To: Saravanan Govindan <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] PMK Sharing
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On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Saravanan Govindan wrote:

> Issue:
>
> In the case of an AC managing a same PMK across many WTPs, IEEE 802.11
> stations cannot distinguish between PMKs that are validly shared and
> those that have been compromised (I0 of Issues/Recommendations).

It was my impression that the PMK would never be transported from the AC 
to the WTPs.  The AC transports the *PTK* to the WTPs in the add mobile 
message.  Since the 802.11i four-way handshake is re-executed after each 
handoff, a fresh PTK is used in each add mobile message.  So, I still 
don't understand why PMK sharing is something people are concerned about.

[ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ]
[ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ]
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Thread-topic: WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
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From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
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Pat,

=20

This is a general issue for the WG milestones. I wanted to get the
group's input on it, so I was hoping you could help add it to the
issues-tracker for resolution.

=20

=20

Issue:

The proposed timeline for WGLC on the Evaluation draft is January 2006.
However, as I went through the presentation on the Comparative Analysis
draft (draft-gwee-capwap-comparative-analysis-00) from the last meeting,
I notice that there a number of important points that are currently not
in the Evaluation draft. Particularly, there are issues regarding joint
wireless and VLAN Resource Control (Slide 7) and structured approach to
Logical Groups (Slide 6) of the IETF64 CAPWAP Comparative Analysis
presentation.=20

=20

While some of these have been included in the issues list, I think would
be good to formalize them so as to make it easier during protocol
development.=20

=20

=20

My recommendation:

To have discussions on the key recommendations of the Comparative
Analysis draft and then incorporate them in the final Evaluation draft
based on consensus.=20

=20

So extending the timeline for the WGLC on the draft would help in this
direction.=20

=20

=20

Thanks,


Saravanan=20


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>This is a general issue for the WG milestones. I =
wanted to
get the group&#8217;s input on it, so I was hoping you could help add it =
to the
issues-tracker for resolution.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The proposed timeline for WGLC on the Evaluation =
draft is January
2006. However, as I went through the presentation on the Comparative =
Analysis
draft (draft-gwee-capwap-comparative-analysis-00) from the last meeting, =
I
notice that there a number of important points that are currently not in =
the
Evaluation draft. Particularly, there are issues regarding joint =
wireless and
VLAN Resource Control (Slide 7) and structured approach to Logical =
Groups
(Slide 6) of the IETF64 CAPWAP Comparative Analysis presentation. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>While some of these have been included in the issues =
list, I
think would be good to formalize them so as to make it easier during =
protocol development.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My recommendation:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>To have discussions on the key recommendations of the
Comparative Analysis draft and then incorporate them in the final =
Evaluation
draft based on consensus. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>So extending the timeline for the WGLC on the draft =
would
help in this direction. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Saravanan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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Thread-topic: Default mode for logical groups
Thread-index: AcYcl5TWMIIGbIwiRmOufZe4zQIvuQADEECQAACAcEAAADoTAAAFXYug
From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] RE: Default mode for logical groups
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Hi Pat,

=20

My point here is not with the location of the bridging function, rather
the way the protocol manages logical groups in general.=20

=20

It is a need arising from two objectives (draft-ietf-objectives-04) -
Logical Groups (Section 5.1.1) and Resource Control Objective (5.1.7).
So the need is to provide logical subsets - with the ability to manage
resources on both wireless segment and the wired segment. I see this as
requiring a type of mapping between the wired segment, say VLAN, and
wireless segment, say BSSID.=20

=20

So even in the case of an AC doing bridging, it needs to be able to
configure its WTPs so that the WTPs can map between the right wired
segment VLAN and right wireless segment BSSID.=20

I think this can be provided by including a configuration element for
the WTP, which maps VLAN to BSSID for each of the logical groups being
configured in the WLAN system.=20

=20

I'm open to any other ways of realizing these two objectives.=20

=20

Saravanan

=20

=20

=20

=20

________________________________

From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:18 AM
To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

=20

I think the crux of the problem is that in Local MAC the bridging
function is provided by the WTP, and therefore it needs a VLAN. However,
pushing this to a WTP when bridging is performed in the AC would be
pointless since the WTP is never connected to a trunk. Unfortunately, by
relocating the bridging function, there is no way to make this common :(

=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:17 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

	Pat,

	=20

	I see your point.=20

	=20

	My concern is with the operation of the consistent operation of
the protocol. So if we were to design in such a way that each logical
group - or WLAN  - is a VLAN + a BSSID, then it makes configuring
local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs similar.=20

	=20

	I think the current protocol already does what we are talking
about in some form. It would be nice to bring out how logical group
configuration works is a common way for local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs.

	=20

	Do you think this is the case?
=09
	Saravanan=20

	=20

	=20

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
	Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:57 AM
	To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

	=20

	Thanks for the e-mail. I recall this conversation, but I believe
where I am getting confused is what we believe is missing.=20

	=20

	I believe we can agree that if *any* form of tunneling is
occuring, then no mapping is required since VLANs will be enforced on
the AC. Further, the protocol already has a provision to specify the
VLAN to associate with a given user when Local MAC is used.

	Pat Calhoun
	CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
	Cisco Systems

	=20

		=20

	=09
________________________________


		From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
		Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:28 PM
		To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: Default mode for logical groups

		Pat,

		=20

		Issue:=20

		Assign a default mode for configuring logical groups
(draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments.
This makes for consistent configuration and management across logical
groups.=20

		=20

		=20

		My recommendation:

		Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config message
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map wired-segment
VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and most common
case for logical groups.=20

		=20

		Then include description of logical group configuration
in BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section
11.4).=20

		=20

	=09
		Saravanan


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My point here is not with the location of the =
bridging
function, rather the way the protocol manages logical groups in general. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>It is a need arising from two objectives
(draft-ietf-objectives-04) &#8211; Logical Groups (Section 5.1.1) and =
Resource
Control Objective (5.1.7). So the need is to provide logical subsets =
&#8211;
with the ability to manage resources on both wireless segment and the =
wired
segment. I see this as requiring a type of mapping between the wired =
segment,
say VLAN, and wireless segment, say BSSID. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>So even in the case of an AC doing bridging, it needs =
to be
able to configure its WTPs so that the WTPs can map between the right =
wired
segment VLAN and right wireless segment BSSID. <br>
<br>
I think this can be provided by including a configuration element for =
the WTP,
which maps VLAN to BSSID for each of the logical groups being configured =
in the
WLAN system. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I&#8217;m open to any other ways of realizing these =
two
objectives. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Pat =
Calhoun
(pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
19, 2006
11:18 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Saravanan
 Govindan</st1:PersonName>; capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Default mode =
for logical
groups</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I think the crux of the problem is =
that in
Local MAC the bridging function is provided by the WTP, and therefore it =
needs
a VLAN. However, pushing this to a WTP when bridging is performed in the =
AC
would be pointless since the WTP is never connected to a trunk. =
Unfortunately,
by relocating the bridging function, there is no way to make this common =
:(</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat
Calhoun<br>
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<br>
Cisco Systems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January =
18, 2006
7:17 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Pat Calhoun =
(pacalhou);
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Default mode =
for
logical groups</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I see your point. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My concern is with the operation of the consistent =
operation
of the protocol. So if we were to design in such a way that each logical =
group
- or WLAN &nbsp;- is a VLAN + a BSSID, then it makes configuring =
local-MAC and
split-MAC WTPs similar. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I think the current protocol already does what we are
talking about in some form. It would be nice to bring out how logical =
group
configuration works is a common way for local-MAC and split-MAC =
WTPs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Do you think this is the case?<br>
<br>
Saravanan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Pat =
Calhoun
(pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
19, 2006
10:57 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Saravanan
 Govindan</st1:PersonName>; capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Default mode =
for
logical groups</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thanks for the e-mail. I recall =
this
conversation, but I believe where I am getting confused is what we =
believe is
missing. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I believe we can agree that if =
*any* form
of tunneling is occuring, then no mapping is required since VLANs will =
be
enforced on the AC. Further, the protocol already has a provision to =
specify
the VLAN to associate with a given user when Local MAC is =
used.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat
Calhoun<br>
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<br>
Cisco Systems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January =
18, 2006
5:28 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Pat Calhoun =
(pacalhou);
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Default mode for =
logical
groups</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Assign a default mode for configuring logical groups
(draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments. =
This
makes for consistent configuration and management across logical groups. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My recommendation:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config =
message
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map wired-segment =
VLANs to
wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and most common case for =
logical
groups. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Then include description of logical group =
configuration in
BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section =
11.4). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</div>

</body>

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Thread-Topic: Questions regarding LWAPP draft v03
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Hi all,

I read the LWAPP draft, and I have questions/comments (maybe already
addressed, but I did not find any trace of that):

1- The Control Message format (section 4.2.1) indicates the message type
is 8-bit encoded. Don't you think this numbering space could be too
small, for further extensions? The section might also mention how this
numbering space is managed (IANA?). Same thing for section 4.2.2.
(Message Element Format), refering to section 16 which is empty.
2- I know that the evaluation team asked for an extension of the Type
field. It might seem obvious, but I think that having its length equal
to the Element ID field of the Vendor-Specific element would make sense.
3- I cannot figure out why Clear Config Indication is the only message
that doesn't need acknowledgment from the WTP. Any particular reason?

Gilles.

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hi all,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I read the LWAPP draft, and I have =
questions/comments (maybe already addressed, but I did not find any =
trace of that):</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">1- The Control Message format (section =
4.2.1) indicates the message type is 8-bit encoded. Don't you think this =
numbering space could be too small, for further extensions? The section =
might also mention how this numbering space is managed (IANA?). Same =
thing for section 4.2.2. (Message Element Format), refering to section =
16 which is empty.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">2- I know that the evaluation team =
asked for an extension of the Type field. It might seem obvious, but I =
think that having its length equal to the Element ID field of the =
Vendor-Specific element would make sense.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">3- I cannot figure out why Clear Config =
Indication is the only message that doesn't need acknowledgment from the =
WTP. Any particular reason?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Gilles.</FONT>
</P>

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Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:32:13 +0530
From: sujay <sujayg@huawei.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
In-reply-to: <12F9AA6C-7C82-4BFC-9A19-A644ACD662C8@u4eatech.com>
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Hi, 
Albeit a late reply;
See SUJ>> below;


-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 3:00 AM
To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
Cc: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP



Comments belowl

On Jan 18, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:



<snipped>

>>>
>>>
>>> h) Page 65 -- Blacklist Entry's  -- This whole area is not good from

>>> my point of view.  When I configure a firewall I say what is allowed
>>> (explicitly) and forbid everything else -- there is no way I can
>>> give a
>>> list of trusted stations and forbid everything else.  This
>> makes live
>>> very difficult.  There is room for a blacklist -- but an allowed 
>>> list is also needed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Suj> In my opinion blacklisting is to prevent any .11 mgt
>> frames from
>>> passing upto the AC for the current WTP-AC session.
>>> - to blacklist one MAC address and allow others is more exact and 
>>> specific rather than knowing ALL those which are Allowed, either way

>>> the one which is allowed will is kept
>> the Radius,
>>> you could put your 'allowed' list there !
>>
>> I think there is a use for BOTH cases.  in a secure environment I do 
>> not want control frames from rogue AP's.
>
> Looks like we are still not in complete agreement on this one. Typical

> 802.11 Devices include an approved list (known as MAC Filter). It is 
> assumed that this
> function is provided w/o CAPWAP involvement, while a blacklist is
> provided
> by CAPWAP. If I understsand correct, you would like a replicated  
> set of
> messages
> to serve as the permit list? Do others agree?

Yes -- My Point.  In a secure environment I want to say what is  
allowed and forbid other things.


SUJ>> AFAIK it should be best suited on the 'default' mode of 802.11
Device behaviour , if it blocks ALL, use a permit list.
If it allows ALL , use a deny list.

Possibly the default mode is allow ALL !

>
>>>
>>>
>>> i) Page 70 -- Image Data -- do not understand how this can work -- 
>>> only 2 fragments allowed -- no count of what is being sent etc
>> -- no way to
>>> detect packet loss ---  why not use data xfer mechanism of
>> tftp ?  --
>>> the blocks are numbered == etc BUT define a md5 hash of the whole 
>>> image and give its length in the initial request.
>>>
>>> Suj> LWAPP has the in-band Image transfer mechanism, some
>> protocols
>>> use
>>> what you have specified.
>>>
>>
>> I do not understand how this can work as defined in the text.  I 
>> understand I could overlay it but it needs a definition.
>
> Could you help identify what needs a definition?


I did not understand (and now do) how this mechanism works.  But I do  
not understand how one knows the transfer is finished?

Is there also another end-case to know if the xfer is beginning ?


SUJ>> it is by the length of Image Data , iff less than 1024 indicates
operation over, else if the op-code indicates a failure.

> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>

Philip Rakity
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Jan 19 07:10:14 2006
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Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:38:40 +0530
From: sujay <sujayg@huawei.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] RE: Firmware Trigger
In-reply-to: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A201437660@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
To: "'Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)'" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
        "'Saravanan Govindan'" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
        capwap@frascone.com
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My recommendation would be to keep it as a 
trigger message allowed only in the Run state.
 
Sujay

-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:34 AM
To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] RE: Firmware Trigger


I would have thought that the group would want it after the Run state,
no? 
 

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

 


  _____  

From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:17 PM
To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
Subject: Firmware Trigger



Pat,

 

Issue: The Evaluation draft (draft-ietf-capwap-eval-00.txt) in Section
6.5 recommends the state machine to support triggering of firmware
checks and updates independent of other operations. 

 

My recommendation: To introduce a Firmware-Update state after the
Configure state (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 2.2.

 

Saravanan


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</HEAD>
<BODY lang=EN-US vLink=purple link=blue>
<DIV><SPAN class=240290612-19012006><FONT face="Lucida Console" color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=240290612-19012006><FONT face="Lucida Console" color=#0000ff 
size=2>My recommendation would be to keep it as a </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=240290612-19012006><FONT face="Lucida Console" color=#0000ff 
size=2>trigger message allowed only in the Run state.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=240290612-19012006><FONT face="Lucida Console" color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=240290612-19012006><FONT face="Lucida Console" color=#0000ff 
size=2>Sujay</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
  face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Pat Calhoun 
  (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 19, 
  2006 8:34 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Saravanan Govindan; 
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Capwap] RE: Firmware 
  Trigger<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=537350303-19012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I 
  would have thought that the group would want it after the Run state, no? 
  </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
  <P align=left><FONT size=2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking Business 
  Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
    <HR tabIndex=-1>
    <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan 
    [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 
    January 18, 2006 5:17 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); 
    capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Firmware Trigger<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=Section1>
    <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue: The Evaluation draft 
    (draft-ietf-capwap-eval-00.txt) in Section 6.5 recommends the state machine 
    to support triggering of firmware checks and updates independent of other 
    operations. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My recommendation: To introduce 
    a Firmware-Update state after the Configure state 
    (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 
    2.2.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Jan 19 10:42:46 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:41:59 -0500
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Saravanan Govindan writes...

> To have discussions on the key recommendations of the=20
> Comparative Analysis draft and then incorporate them in
> the final Evaluation draft based on consensus.

With all due respect, the Evaluation Team draft (and eventual
Informational RFC) documents the proceedings and findings of the CAPWAP
WG Evaluation Team, during a specific period of time when the Eval Team
was in operation.  The draft is intended to accurately reflect that
process, as an historical record.  The recommendations of the Eval Team
are not binding upon the WG.  However, the WG is not expected to
*revise* the record of the Eval Team proceedings, except to correct
errors of fact.

For that reason, adding substantive comments and recommendations, that
did not come from the Eval Team proceedings, into the Eval Team draft
would not be appropriate.

Regards,

Dave
=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] RE: Firmware Trigger
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:22:49 -0800
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
        "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
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The following state machine is the result of the requested change to
allow for firmware to be triggered while in the run state. I've had to
change much of the figure in order to allow for an ackward ASCII state
machine to be able to take into account the new state transition, and do
believe I have it correct, but will spend more time later this week
verifying it once more.

      /-------------\
      |             v
      |       +------------+
      |      C|    Idle    |<--------------------------------------\
      |       +------------+<--------------------------\           |
      |        ^    |a   ^                             |           |
      |        |    |    |    +------------+   5    +------------+ |
      |        |    |    |    | Key Update |------->| Key Confirm| |
      |        |    |    |    +------------+        +------------+ |
      |        |    |    |              ^              |           |
      |        |    |    |              |  u           |w          |
      |        |    |    |              \------\       |           |
      |        |    |    |y                    |       v      t    |
      |        |    |   +------------+        +------------+------/
      |       /     |   |   Reset    |<-------|     Run    |C
      |     /       |   r+-----------+    s   +------------+
      |    /        |              ^ ^        7|          ^
      |   |         v              | \         |    p     |
      |   |   +--------------+    o|  ---------+------\  q|
      |   |  C|  Discovery   |     |           V     +-----------+
      |   |  b+--------------+    +-------------+    | Configure |
      |   |     |d     f|  ^     C| Image Data  |--->+-----------+
      |   |     |       |  |     n+-------------+p       ^
      |   |e    v       |  |        ^         ^          |
      |  +---------+    v  |i       |m       4|         2|
      | C| Sulking |   +--------------+    +--------------+
      |  +---------+  C|     Join     |--->| Join-Confirm |
      |               g+--------------+z   +--------------+
      |                   |h                3|
       \------------------/                  |
        \------------------------------------/=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:04 PM
	To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: [Capwap] RE: Firmware Trigger
=09
=09
	I would have thought that the group would want it after the Run
state, no?=20
	=20

	Pat Calhoun
	CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
	Cisco Systems

		=20


________________________________

		From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
		Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:17 PM
		To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: Firmware Trigger
	=09
	=09

		Pat,

		=20

		Issue: The Evaluation draft
(draft-ietf-capwap-eval-00.txt) in Section 6.5 recommends the state
machine to support triggering of firmware checks and updates independent
of other operations.=20

		=20

		My recommendation: To introduce a Firmware-Update state
after the Configure state (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section
2.2.

		=20

		Saravanan
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From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
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The eval team recommended that DTLS be used to secure the CAPWAP protocol, and several
others have been suggesting this same thing for some time now. Two revisions of a draft explaining
how to do this have been published - the first elicited a few minor comments, and
the second (modified to reflect those comments) has drawn no fire.

Are we done with this discussion? If so, let's get DTLS incorporated into the next rev of the draft. 
If not, let's hear why not.

--Scott



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Subject: RE: [Capwap] DTLS
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:17:04 -0700
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] DTLS
Thread-Index: AcYdF8SGXCcTiq2vSV+lfBmWgFZk5wADLVsg
From: "Susan Hares" <skh@nexthop.com>
To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>, "capwap" <capwap@frascone.com>
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 Scott:

I would like to forward concerns about DTLS draft 2.=20
I will send them by Monday. =20

Sue Hares

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:45 AM
To: capwap
Subject: [Capwap] DTLS

The eval team recommended that DTLS be used to secure the CAPWAP
protocol, and several
others have been suggesting this same thing for some time now. Two
revisions of a draft explaining
how to do this have been published - the first elicited a few minor
comments, and
the second (modified to reflect those comments) has drawn no fire.

Are we done with this discussion? If so, let's get DTLS incorporated
into the next rev of the draft.=20
If not, let's hear why not.

--Scott



_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] DTLS
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:12:33 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] DTLS
Thread-Index: AcYdF9EGID0UIpiqSXm7qpjqAWzEsAAE/Sog
From: "Nancy Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>, "capwap" <capwap@frascone.com>
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Scott,

I will provide some comments by next week.

	Nancy.
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:45 AM
To: capwap
Subject: [Capwap] DTLS

The eval team recommended that DTLS be used to secure the CAPWAP
protocol, and several others have been suggesting this same thing for
some time now. Two revisions of a draft explaining how to do this have
been published - the first elicited a few minor comments, and the second
(modified to reflect those comments) has drawn no fire.

Are we done with this discussion? If so, let's get DTLS incorporated
into the next rev of the draft.=20
If not, let's hear why not.

--Scott



_________________________________________________________________
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From trplj@cyberhighway.net Thu Jan 19 14:19:57 2006
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--------=05099385506--





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Subject: Essenitial P haramabcy
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=20
These and many other at http://www.ofheciwil.com

Va
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liu
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m
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=20


$
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] RE: Default mode for logical groups
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] RE: Default mode for logical groups
Thread-Index: AcYc+T3B9Jlrsy8+SYmQVSMX2xMvHQAaIjBg
From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
To: "sujay" <sujayg@huawei.com>, "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
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Hi Sujay,

=20

VLAN + BSSID is a common way for realizing logical groups due to its
relative ease in implementation.=20

=20

I realize there are cases where using VLAN information may not be
directly required at a WTP. However, for the protocol to work
consistently for local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs, I believe there is a need
for this.=20

=20

Saravanan

=20

=20

=20

=20

________________________________

From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:03 PM
To: Saravanan Govindan; 'Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)'
Subject: RE: [Capwap] RE: Default mode for logical groups

=20

Hi Saravanan,

=20

Is talking of a WLAN logical group comprising

of VLAN + BSSID always true?

=20

The VLAN mapping to is from  Mobile MAC address<-->VLAN Name

As in the 'Add Mobile' message.

and not from WLANID <--> VLAN ID

=20

However; as a measure of resource control and uniformity its a nice idea

in having the VLAN info on the WTP whether it is of use there or not.

=20

=20

Does it make sense to make the VLAN name as a mandotory element in=20

the Add mobile message??

=20

Regds,

Sujay

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

	-----Original Message-----
	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:35 AM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: [Capwap] RE: Default mode for logical groups

	Hi Pat,

	=20

	My point here is not with the location of the bridging function,
rather the way the protocol manages logical groups in general.=20

	=20

	It is a need arising from two objectives
(draft-ietf-objectives-04) - Logical Groups (Section 5.1.1) and Resource
Control Objective (5.1.7). So the need is to provide logical subsets -
with the ability to manage resources on both wireless segment and the
wired segment. I see this as requiring a type of mapping between the
wired segment, say VLAN, and wireless segment, say BSSID.=20

	=20

	So even in the case of an AC doing bridging, it needs to be able
to configure its WTPs so that the WTPs can map between the right wired
segment VLAN and right wireless segment BSSID.=20
=09
	I think this can be provided by including a configuration
element for the WTP, which maps VLAN to BSSID for each of the logical
groups being configured in the WLAN system.=20

	=20

	I'm open to any other ways of realizing these two objectives.=20

	=20

	Saravanan

	=20

	=20

	=20

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
	Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:18 AM
	To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

	=20

	I think the crux of the problem is that in Local MAC the
bridging function is provided by the WTP, and therefore it needs a VLAN.
However, pushing this to a WTP when bridging is performed in the AC
would be pointless since the WTP is never connected to a trunk.
Unfortunately, by relocating the bridging function, there is no way to
make this common :(

	=20

	Pat Calhoun
	CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
	Cisco Systems

	=20

		=20

	=09
________________________________


		From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
		Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:17 PM
		To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

		Pat,

		=20

		I see your point.=20

		=20

		My concern is with the operation of the consistent
operation of the protocol. So if we were to design in such a way that
each logical group - or WLAN  - is a VLAN + a BSSID, then it makes
configuring local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs similar.=20

		=20

		I think the current protocol already does what we are
talking about in some form. It would be nice to bring out how logical
group configuration works is a common way for local-MAC and split-MAC
WTPs.

		=20

		Do you think this is the case?
	=09
		Saravanan=20

		=20

		=20

		=20

	=09
________________________________


		From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]

		Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:57 AM
		To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

		=20

		Thanks for the e-mail. I recall this conversation, but I
believe where I am getting confused is what we believe is missing.=20

		=20

		I believe we can agree that if *any* form of tunneling
is occuring, then no mapping is required since VLANs will be enforced on
the AC. Further, the protocol already has a provision to specify the
VLAN to associate with a given user when Local MAC is used.

		Pat Calhoun
		CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
		Cisco Systems

		=20

			=20

		=09
________________________________


			From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
			Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:28 PM
			To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
			Subject: Default mode for logical groups

			Pat,

			=20

			Issue:=20

			Assign a default mode for configuring logical
groups (draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments.
This makes for consistent configuration and management across logical
groups.=20

			=20

			=20

			My recommendation:

			Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config
message (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map
wired-segment VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and
most common case for logical groups.=20

			=20

			Then include description of logical group
configuration in BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4).=20

			=20

		=09
			Saravanan


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi Sujay,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>VLAN + BSSID is a common way for realizing logical =
groups
due to its relative ease in implementation. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I realize there are cases where using VLAN =
information may
not be directly required at a WTP. However, for the protocol to work
consistently for local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs, I believe there is a need =
for
this. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> sujay
[mailto:sujayg@huawei.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
19, 2006
9:03 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Saravanan Govindan; =
'Pat
Calhoun (pacalhou)'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Capwap] RE: =
Default
mode for logical groups</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:blue'>Hi =
Saravanan,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:blue'>Is =
talking of
a WLAN logical group comprising</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:blue'>of =
VLAN +
BSSID always true?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:blue'>The =
VLAN
mapping to is from&nbsp; Mobile MAC address&lt;--&gt;VLAN =
Name</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'>As&nbsp;in the
'Add Mobile' message.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:blue'>and =
not from
WLANID &lt;--&gt; VLAN ID</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'>However; as a
measure of resource control and uniformity its a nice =
idea</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:blue'>in =
having the
VLAN info on the WTP whether it is of use there or =
not.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:blue'>Does =
it make
sense to make the VLAN name as a mandotory element in =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:blue'>the =
Add mobile
message??</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'>Regds,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'>Sujay</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Saravanan Govindan =
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]
<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
19, 2006
11:35 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Pat Calhoun =
(pacalhou);
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Capwap] RE: =
Default mode
for logical groups</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My point here is not with the location of the =
bridging
function, rather the way the protocol manages logical groups in general. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>It is a need arising from two objectives
(draft-ietf-objectives-04) &#8211; Logical Groups (Section 5.1.1) and =
Resource
Control Objective (5.1.7). So the need is to provide logical subsets =
&#8211;
with the ability to manage resources on both wireless segment and the =
wired
segment. I see this as requiring a type of mapping between the wired =
segment,
say VLAN, and wireless segment, say BSSID. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>So even in the case of an AC doing bridging, it needs =
to be
able to configure its WTPs so that the WTPs can map between the right =
wired
segment VLAN and right wireless segment BSSID. <br>
<br>
I think this can be provided by including a configuration element for =
the WTP,
which maps VLAN to BSSID for each of the logical groups being configured =
in the
WLAN system. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I&#8217;m open to any other ways of realizing these =
two
objectives. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Pat =
Calhoun
(pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
19, 2006
11:18 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName
style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: =
url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>; capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Default mode =
for
logical groups</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I think the crux of the problem is =
that in
Local MAC the bridging function is provided by the WTP, and therefore it =
needs
a VLAN. However, pushing this to a WTP when bridging is performed in the =
AC
would be pointless since the WTP is never connected to a trunk. =
Unfortunately,
by relocating the bridging function, there is no way to make this common =
:(</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat
Calhoun<br>
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<br>
Cisco Systems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: =
url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January =
18, 2006
7:17 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Pat Calhoun =
(pacalhou);
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Default mode =
for
logical groups</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I see your point. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My concern is with the operation of the consistent =
operation
of the protocol. So if we were to design in such a way that each logical =
group
- or WLAN &nbsp;- is a VLAN + a BSSID, then it makes configuring =
local-MAC and
split-MAC WTPs similar. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I think the current protocol already does what we are
talking about in some form. It would be nice to bring out how logical =
group
configuration works is a common way for local-MAC and split-MAC =
WTPs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Do you think this is the case?<br>
<br>
Saravanan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Pat =
Calhoun
(pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
19, 2006
10:57 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName
style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: =
url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>; capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Default mode =
for
logical groups</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thanks for the e-mail. I recall =
this
conversation, but I believe where I am getting confused is what we =
believe is
missing. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I believe we can agree that if =
*any* form
of tunneling is occuring, then no mapping is required since VLANs will =
be
enforced on the AC. Further, the protocol already has a provision to =
specify
the VLAN to associate with a given user when Local MAC is =
used.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat
Calhoun<br>
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<br>
Cisco Systems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: =
url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January =
18, 2006
5:28 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Pat Calhoun =
(pacalhou);
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Default mode for =
logical
groups</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Pat,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Assign a default mode for configuring logical groups
(draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments. =
This
makes for consistent configuration and management across logical groups. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My recommendation:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config =
message
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map wired-segment =
VLANs to
wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and most common case for =
logical
groups. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Then include description of logical group =
configuration in
BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section =
11.4). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</div>

</body>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
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From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
To: "Nelson, David" <dnelson@enterasys.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Dave,

I think the Evaluation Team has made solid recommendations based on its
review.=20

My concern is that as a WG document, which is an output from the CAPWAP
WG as a whole, the Evaluation draft should also incorporate key findings
made outside the Evaluation Team review.=20

For consideration, these 'other' findings can be included in a separate
section that clearly highlights their origins.=20

This way, the Evaluation document will cover greater analyses of the
protocols and help implementers understand the CAPWAP protocol better.=20

I hope this helps to better understand my concern.=20

Cheers,

Saravanan





-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson, David [mailto:dnelson@enterasys.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:42 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft


Saravanan Govindan writes...

> To have discussions on the key recommendations of the=20
> Comparative Analysis draft and then incorporate them in
> the final Evaluation draft based on consensus.

With all due respect, the Evaluation Team draft (and eventual
Informational RFC) documents the proceedings and findings of the CAPWAP
WG Evaluation Team, during a specific period of time when the Eval Team
was in operation.  The draft is intended to accurately reflect that
process, as an historical record.  The recommendations of the Eval Team
are not binding upon the WG.  However, the WG is not expected to
*revise* the record of the Eval Team proceedings, except to correct
errors of fact.

For that reason, adding substantive comments and recommendations, that
did not come from the Eval Team proceedings, into the Eval Team draft
would not be appropriate.

Regards,

Dave
=20
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Jan 19 22:53:53 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:53:15 +0800
Message-ID: <9C374CF75527504394E573E1937136C4022661FA@staff-mail.rp.edu.sg>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
thread-index: AcYcuEXXgsVdSDySRmKLHXgbPHFu3AAVaCsgABdfXfAAAmXl0A==
From: "Richard Gwee" <richard_gwee@rp.sg>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
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Hi,

I agree with the recommendation to incorporate the key recommendations
of the Comparative Analysis draft into the final Evaluation draft. It is
a pity that I am not able to present the recommendations during the 64th
IETF meeting but I feel that the recommendations highlighted in the
Comparative Analysis draft are valid points for discussion. I do
understand the Evaluation draft is the official working item but I do
believe that we can actually look into recommendations outside the
Evaluation draft if they are valid and help in the development of a
better CAPWAP protocol standard.

Thanks and regards
Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 11:20 AM
To: Nelson, David; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft

Dave,

I think the Evaluation Team has made solid recommendations based on its
review.=20

My concern is that as a WG document, which is an output from the CAPWAP
WG as a whole, the Evaluation draft should also incorporate key findings
made outside the Evaluation Team review.=20

For consideration, these 'other' findings can be included in a separate
section that clearly highlights their origins.=20

This way, the Evaluation document will cover greater analyses of the
protocols and help implementers understand the CAPWAP protocol better.=20

I hope this helps to better understand my concern.=20

Cheers,

Saravanan





-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson, David [mailto:dnelson@enterasys.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:42 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft


Saravanan Govindan writes...

> To have discussions on the key recommendations of the=20
> Comparative Analysis draft and then incorporate them in
> the final Evaluation draft based on consensus.

With all due respect, the Evaluation Team draft (and eventual
Informational RFC) documents the proceedings and findings of the CAPWAP
WG Evaluation Team, during a specific period of time when the Eval Team
was in operation.  The draft is intended to accurately reflect that
process, as an historical record.  The recommendations of the Eval Team
are not binding upon the WG.  However, the WG is not expected to
*revise* the record of the Eval Team proceedings, except to correct
errors of fact.

For that reason, adding substantive comments and recommendations, that
did not come from the Eval Team proceedings, into the Eval Team draft
would not be appropriate.

Regards,

Dave
=20
_________________________________________________________________
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Republic Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922
. www.rp.sg . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20
>From March 2006, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands =
Avenue 9, Singapore 738964. Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of =
Higher Learning to fully adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in =
Singapore, continues to strive towards best practices and maintain =
excellence in service standards with the following certifications: =
Singapore Innovation Class (SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People =
Developer Standards and QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of =
the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains =
information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of =
this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not =
disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received =
this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return =
email and delete the original message. Thank you. =20


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Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
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Saravanan Govindan writes...

> My concern is that as a WG document, which is an output from the =
CAPWAP
> WG as a whole, the Evaluation draft should also incorporate key =
findings
> made outside the Evaluation Team review.
>=20
> For consideration, these 'other' findings can be included in a =
separate
> section that clearly highlights their origins.

I understand your concerns, but this is not the process that was agreed =
to by the Evaluation Team, the WG Chairs and the Area Directors.  The =
Eval Team draft reports the procedings and findings of the Eval Team.  =
It is what it is.  It is, in fact, *not* the output of the WG as a =
whole, but specifically the output of the Evaluation Team.  This same =
process has been used multiple times in various IETF WGs.

The WG is free to publish whatever additional evaluation documents it =
wishes, but I don't beleive it is appropriate to add opinions and =
recommendations to the Eval Team document that did not originate from =
within the Eval Team process.

Regards,

Dave

=20

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Jan 19 23:11:26 2006
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Subject: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
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From: "Richard Gwee" <richard_gwee@rp.sg>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Hi Pat,

=20

I refer to the issue on "Using MIB variable names instead" on the issue
tracker. In addition to using MIBs, there is also a need for the
protocol to define its own statistics and configuration items. Such
items can be used for functionalities that include congestion
monitoring, feedback etc.

=20

Thus I will like to recommend to include the definition of the
protocol's own statistics and configuration items and that one of these
statistics items to be used for congestion control and feedback.

=20

Thanks and regards

Richard

=20

________________________________

From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:57 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Done w/ Issue Tracker

=20

All,

=20

I believe that I've entered all entries posted to the list after
November 1st. If you have any change requests on the list prior to that
date, please forward them to me.

=20

The issue tracker can be found at www.capwap.org. Please note that if
you search with no filters, you will find both open and resolved bugs. A
normal "Show All" does not display the resolved issues.

=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20



Republic Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922
. www.rp.sg . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20
>From March 2006, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands =
Avenue 9, Singapore 738964. Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of =
Higher Learning to fully adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in =
Singapore, continues to strive towards best practices and maintain =
excellence in service standards with the following certifications: =
Singapore Innovation Class (SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People =
Developer Standards and QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of =
the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains =
information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of =
this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not =
disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received =
this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return =
email and delete the original message. Thank you. =20



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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Pat,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I refer to the issue on =
&#8220;Using MIB variable
names instead&#8221; on the issue tracker. In addition to using MIBs, =
there is also
a need for the protocol to define its own statistics and configuration =
items. Such
items can be used for functionalities that include congestion =
monitoring,
feedback etc.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thus I will like to recommend to =
include
the definition of the protocol&#8217;s own statistics and configuration =
items
and that one of these statistics items to be used for congestion control =
and
feedback.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks and =
regards</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Richard</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Pat Calhoun
(pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
19, 2006
5:57 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Capwap] Done w/ =
Issue
Tracker</span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>All,</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I believe that I've entered all entries posted to the =
list
after November 1st. If you have any change requests on the list prior to =
that
date, please forward them to me.</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The issue tracker can be found at <a =
href=3D"http://www.capwap.org">www.capwap.org</a>. Please note that if =
you search
with no filters, you will find both open and resolved bugs. A normal =
&quot;Show
All&quot; does not display the resolved issues.</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat
Calhoun<br>
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<br>
Cisco Systems</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

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<TABLE width=3D"100%">
<TBODY>
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<TD width=3D"100%">
<P align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Republic Polytechnic, =
Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922<BR>. </FONT><A =
title=3Dhttp://www.rp.edu.sg/ href=3D"http://www.rp.sg"><FONT =
title=3Dhttp://www.rp.edu.sg/ face=3DTahoma color=3Dblue size=3D2><U =
title=3Dhttp://www.rp.edu.sg/>www.rp.sg</U></FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DTahoma size=3D2> . Fax: +65 6415-1310 . =
<BR><EM>&nbsp;From&nbsp;<U>March 2006</U>, we will be located in our new =
home at 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, Singapore 738964.</EM></FONT></P>
<TR>
<TD>
<P align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D1><I>Republic Polytechnic, =
the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully adopt the Problem-Based =
Learning approach in Singapore, continues to strive towards best =
practices and maintain excellence in service standards with the =
following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class (SIC), Singapore =
Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and QEHS (ISO 9001, =
14001 and OHSAS 18001)</I></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Jan 19 23:17:31 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:16:59 -0500
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 Richard Gwee writes...

> I agree with the recommendation to incorporate the key recommendations
> of the Comparative Analysis draft into the final Evaluation draft.
=20
I respectfully disagree, for the reasons I've explained.
=20
> ...but I feel that the recommendations highlighted in the
> Comparative Analysis draft are valid points for discussion.=20
=20
Indeed, they are valid points for discussion.  They are simply not the =
output of the official CAPWAP WG Evaluation Team, and should be =
documented, and discussed separately.   The tradition of using an =
Evaluation Team, within the IETF, includes the issuance of a report of =
findings from that panel that stands alone as the historical record of =
the Evaluation Team's work, process and findings.
=20
The Evaluation Team document is clearly *not*, nor does it portend to =
be, the WG's consensus position on protocol selection and evaluation.  =
It is the work product and recommendations of the Evaluation Team.
=20
Regards,

Dave

=20
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From: "Richard Gwee" <richard_gwee@rp.sg>
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Subject: [Capwap] Issue on Combining messages
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi Pat,

=20

I will like to propose a new thread on the issue tracker. Appreciate if
you can help to add it in.

=20

Issue:

=20

Currently, the keepalive and statistics messages are separated. Separate
messages for keepalive signaling and statistics can lead to high
overhead. Initial analysis have shown that these overhead can be reduced
significantly if the messages can be combined.

=20

Recommendation:

=20

To combine the keepalive and statistics message into one combined
message, thus reducing overhead significantly.

=20

Thanks and regards

Richard



Republic Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922
. www.rp.sg . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20
>From March 2006, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands =
Avenue 9, Singapore 738964. Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of =
Higher Learning to fully adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in =
Singapore, continues to strive towards best practices and maintain =
excellence in service standards with the following certifications: =
Singapore Innovation Class (SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People =
Developer Standards and QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of =
the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains =
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this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not =
disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received =
this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return =
email and delete the original message. Thank you. =20



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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi Pat,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I will like to propose a new thread on the issue =
tracker.
Appreciate if you can help to add it in.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue:</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Currently, the keepalive and statistics messages are
separated. Separate messages for keepalive signaling and statistics can =
lead to
high overhead. Initial analysis have shown that these overhead can be =
reduced
significantly if the messages can be combined.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Recommendation:</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>To combine the keepalive and statistics message into =
one
combined message, thus reducing overhead =
significantly.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks and regards</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Richard</span></font></p>

</div>

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From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
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Dave,

I respect your view on the current state of the Evaluation document.=20

However, since the Evaluation document is subject to WG consensus, I
think it should represent that.=20

In the spirit of a quick resolution, maybe we can get the Chairs' input
in this.=20

Cheers,

Saravanan




-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson, David [mailto:dnelson@enterasys.com]=20
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:06 PM
To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft

Saravanan Govindan writes...

> My concern is that as a WG document, which is an output from the
CAPWAP
> WG as a whole, the Evaluation draft should also incorporate key
findings
> made outside the Evaluation Team review.
>=20
> For consideration, these 'other' findings can be included in a
separate
> section that clearly highlights their origins.

I understand your concerns, but this is not the process that was agreed
to by the Evaluation Team, the WG Chairs and the Area Directors.  The
Eval Team draft reports the procedings and findings of the Eval Team.
It is what it is.  It is, in fact, *not* the output of the WG as a
whole, but specifically the output of the Evaluation Team.  This same
process has been used multiple times in various IETF WGs.

The WG is free to publish whatever additional evaluation documents it
wishes, but I don't beleive it is appropriate to add opinions and
recommendations to the Eval Team document that did not originate from
within the Eval Team process.

Regards,

Dave

=20


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Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
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Saravanan Govindan writes...
=20
> However, since the Evaluation document is subject to WG consensus, I
> think it should represent that.
=20
Well, in fact ,the Evaluation Team document was *not* intended to be =
subject to WG consensus, when the Chairs and Area Director initially set =
the ground rules for the Evaluation Team process.  That's the basis of =
my issue with your suggestion to incorporate other opinions.=20

> In the spirit of a quick resolution, maybe we can get the Chairs' =
input
> in this.
=20
Yes, I agree.  I would appreciate clarification from the Chairs.
=20
Regards,

Dave


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The evaluation draft will stand as is for the purpose of documenting
the evaluation team's efforts.  The draft and informational RFC is the
historical record of the evaluation team's efforts at that point in
time.  It's primary goal was to help the working group consolidate
it's efforts around one protocol to deliver on the CAPWAP objectives.=20
The draft is not intended to be an exclusive list of issues and
recommendations for the life of the working group.

I agree that Richard's comparative analysis draft brings up some
important points that are not in the official evaluation draft.  These
issues can be considered by the working group in without editing the
evaluation draft.  If there is sufficient support from the working
group to addresss those issues, they should be addressed.  This
includes consensus that they are important issues that must be
resolved and volunteers to develop the solutions.

-Darren


On 1/19/06, Richard Gwee <richard_gwee@rp.sg> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I agree with the recommendation to incorporate the key recommendations
> of the Comparative Analysis draft into the final Evaluation draft. It is
> a pity that I am not able to present the recommendations during the 64th
> IETF meeting but I feel that the recommendations highlighted in the
> Comparative Analysis draft are valid points for discussion. I do
> understand the Evaluation draft is the official working item but I do
> believe that we can actually look into recommendations outside the
> Evaluation draft if they are valid and help in the development of a
> better CAPWAP protocol standard.
>
> Thanks and regards
> Richard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 11:20 AM
> To: Nelson, David; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
>
> Dave,
>
> I think the Evaluation Team has made solid recommendations based on its
> review.
>
> My concern is that as a WG document, which is an output from the CAPWAP
> WG as a whole, the Evaluation draft should also incorporate key findings
> made outside the Evaluation Team review.
>
> For consideration, these 'other' findings can be included in a separate
> section that clearly highlights their origins.
>
> This way, the Evaluation document will cover greater analyses of the
> protocols and help implementers understand the CAPWAP protocol better.
>
> I hope this helps to better understand my concern.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Saravanan
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nelson, David [mailto:dnelson@enterasys.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:42 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
>
>
> Saravanan Govindan writes...
>
> > To have discussions on the key recommendations of the
> > Comparative Analysis draft and then incorporate them in
> > the final Evaluation draft based on consensus.
>
> With all due respect, the Evaluation Team draft (and eventual
> Informational RFC) documents the proceedings and findings of the CAPWAP
> WG Evaluation Team, during a specific period of time when the Eval Team
> was in operation.  The draft is intended to accurately reflect that
> process, as an historical record.  The recommendations of the Eval Team
> are not binding upon the WG.  However, the WG is not expected to
> *revise* the record of the Eval Team proceedings, except to correct
> errors of fact.
>
> For that reason, adding substantive comments and recommendations, that
> did not come from the Eval Team proceedings, into the Eval Team draft
> would not be appropriate.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>
>
> Republic Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922
> . www.rp.sg . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .
> >From March 2006, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands Avenu=
e 9, Singapore 738964. Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher =
Learning to fully adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, c=
ontinues to strive towards best practices and maintain excellence in servic=
e standards with the following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class (=
SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and QEHS (I=
SO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
> CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of the=
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 is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are no=
t the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy th=
is communication. If you have received this communication in error, please =
notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Than=
k you.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Jan 20 13:12:40 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:12:03 -0800
Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A201437CE9@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
Thread-Index: AcYd4XXkbm8gx38ERcuwgCrEzPbZEQAC2/5Q
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Darren" <dplore@gmail.com>, "Richard Gwee" <richard_gwee@rp.sg>
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        capwap@frascone.com
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Personally, I think we can start dealing with these change requests via
e-mail. I don't see value in documenting changes in a separate document
when we are in the process of editing.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren [mailto:dplore@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:48 AM
> To: Richard Gwee
> Cc: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
>=20
> The evaluation draft will stand as is for the purpose of=20
> documenting the evaluation team's efforts.  The draft and=20
> informational RFC is the historical record of the evaluation=20
> team's efforts at that point in time.  It's primary goal was=20
> to help the working group consolidate it's efforts around one=20
> protocol to deliver on the CAPWAP objectives.=20
> The draft is not intended to be an exclusive list of issues=20
> and recommendations for the life of the working group.
>=20
> I agree that Richard's comparative analysis draft brings up=20
> some important points that are not in the official evaluation=20
> draft.  These issues can be considered by the working group=20
> in without editing the evaluation draft.  If there is=20
> sufficient support from the working group to addresss those=20
> issues, they should be addressed.  This includes consensus=20
> that they are important issues that must be resolved and=20
> volunteers to develop the solutions.
>=20
> -Darren
>=20
>=20
> On 1/19/06, Richard Gwee <richard_gwee@rp.sg> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I agree with the recommendation to incorporate the key=20
> recommendations=20
> > of the Comparative Analysis draft into the final Evaluation=20
> draft. It=20
> > is a pity that I am not able to present the recommendations=20
> during the=20
> > 64th IETF meeting but I feel that the recommendations=20
> highlighted in=20
> > the Comparative Analysis draft are valid points for=20
> discussion. I do=20
> > understand the Evaluation draft is the official working=20
> item but I do=20
> > believe that we can actually look into recommendations outside the=20
> > Evaluation draft if they are valid and help in the development of a=20
> > better CAPWAP protocol standard.
> >
> > Thanks and regards
> > Richard
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Saravanan Govindan=20
> [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]
> > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 11:20 AM
> > To: Nelson, David; capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > I think the Evaluation Team has made solid recommendations based on=20
> > its review.
> >
> > My concern is that as a WG document, which is an output from the=20
> > CAPWAP WG as a whole, the Evaluation draft should also=20
> incorporate key=20
> > findings made outside the Evaluation Team review.
> >
> > For consideration, these 'other' findings can be included in a=20
> > separate section that clearly highlights their origins.
> >
> > This way, the Evaluation document will cover greater=20
> analyses of the=20
> > protocols and help implementers understand the CAPWAP=20
> protocol better.
> >
> > I hope this helps to better understand my concern.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Saravanan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nelson, David [mailto:dnelson@enterasys.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:42 PM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] WGLC timeline for Evaluation draft
> >
> >
> > Saravanan Govindan writes...
> >
> > > To have discussions on the key recommendations of the Comparative=20
> > > Analysis draft and then incorporate them in the final Evaluation=20
> > > draft based on consensus.
> >
> > With all due respect, the Evaluation Team draft (and eventual=20
> > Informational RFC) documents the proceedings and findings of the=20
> > CAPWAP WG Evaluation Team, during a specific period of time=20
> when the=20
> > Eval Team was in operation.  The draft is intended to accurately=20
> > reflect that process, as an historical record.  The=20
> recommendations of=20
> > the Eval Team are not binding upon the WG.  However, the WG is not=20
> > expected to
> > *revise* the record of the Eval Team proceedings, except to correct=20
> > errors of fact.
> >
> > For that reason, adding substantive comments and=20
> recommendations, that=20
> > did not come from the Eval Team proceedings, into the Eval=20
> Team draft=20
> > would not be appropriate.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> >
> > Republic Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore=20
> > 248922 . www.rp.sg . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .
> > >From March 2006, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands=20
> > >Avenue 9, Singapore 738964. Republic Polytechnic, the=20
> first Institute=20
> > >of Higher Learning to fully adopt the Problem-Based=20
> Learning approach=20
> > >in Singapore, continues to strive towards best practices=20
> and maintain=20
> > >excellence in service standards with the following certifications:=20
> > >Singapore Innovation Class (SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC),=20
> > >People Developer Standards and QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and=20
> OHSAS 18001)
> >=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---------- CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is=20
> intended only for=20
> > the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed=20
> and contains information that is privileged and confidential.=20
> If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended=20
> recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy=20
> this communication. If you have received this communication=20
> in error, please notify us immediately by return email and=20
> delete the original message. Thank you.
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Additional Comments on LWAPP
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:12:18 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Additional Comments on LWAPP
Thread-Index: AcYBB9Hpbdh1FGdKTeeL9oLQHvwYfgbZgoXg
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: <Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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> General Comment:  Radio ID's are limited to be between 0 and=20
> 7 inclusive.=20
> The definition of Radio ID in the fields should show this=20
> limited range -- one byte allocated but only 8 values allowed.

A previous comment of yours caught caused me to catch this one already.
It will be fixed in the first rev.

>=20
> Page 35 -- 5.2.1 AC address
> I do not understand this.  It is not useful with a layer 3=20
> transport.  If using a layer 2 transport then I would assume=20
> the broadcast or multicast from the Discovery Message would=20
> have been heard by any other AC's -- so rather than respond=20
> -- would it not be best to stay silent?

I believe you are correct that this information element is not required
for layer 3, and can be removed. I've added this to tracker.

>=20
> General Comment:  Is there a case where one has a simple=20
> discovery agent running in dumb hardware -- its only purpose=20
> is to redirect the WTP to the real AC?  There seems to be=20
> hints of this possibility but it is not spelled out.

There are many things one can do with the protocol, but I think we=20
should leave implementors determine what they can, and cannot, do.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com [mailto:Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 3:40 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Additional Comments on LWAPP
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Philip
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:19:38 -0800
Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A201437D7E@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Comments on Draft 3 -- LWAPP
Thread-Index: AcYcdmRVimrRgZRQQxGkrRRIdDrfyQBfzNQA
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Philip Rakity" <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>
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> >>> d) Page 37 -- Section 5.2.4  WTP manager control IPV4=20
> address -- do=20
> >>> not understand the text --  is there only one ip address ?
> >> if so --
> >>> then the ip address is used to return the interface of=20
> the AC.  If=20
> >>> only one address -- how is load balancing done ?
> >>>
> >>> Suj> If the AC has more than one Interfaces open for the WTP to
> >>> join, it
> >>> specifies each of these ip address's with Individual TLV's,
> >>> - right, for single ip interface load balancing cannot be
> >> done ,(given
> >>> only one AC) the AC should return its own interface Ip address.
> >>
> >> So the problem is the ip address CAN repeat but this is=20
> not reflected=20
> >> in the definition of the length?
> > An AC would include one such message element per interface=20
> it has. So=20
> > the length is correct.
>=20
>=20
> Could you add a note that message element is repeated per=20
> interface being sent to the WTP.
Issue tracker 12: Text modified to add:
    In the event that multiple such message elements are
    returned, the WTP is expected to perform load balancing across
    the multiple interfaces.

>=20
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> h) Page 65 -- Blacklist Entry's  -- This whole area is not good
> >>> from my
> >>> point of view.  When I configure a firewall I say what is allowed
> >>> (explicitly) and forbid everything else -- there is no way I can
> >>> give a
> >>> list of trusted stations and forbid everything else.  This
> >> makes live
> >>> very difficult.  There is room for a blacklist -- but an allowed
> >>> list is
> >>> also needed.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Suj> In my opinion blacklisting is to prevent any .11 mgt
> >> frames from
> >>> passing upto the AC for the current WTP-AC session.
> >>> - to blacklist one MAC address and allow others is more exact and
> >>> specific rather than knowing ALL those which are
> >>> Allowed, either way the one which is allowed will is kept
> >> the Radius,
> >>> you could put your 'allowed' list there !
> >>
> >> I think there is a use for BOTH cases.  in a secure=20
> environment I do
> >> not want control frames from rogue AP's.
> >
> > Looks like we are still not in complete agreement on this=20
> one. Typical
> > 802.11
> > Devices include an approved list (known as MAC Filter). It=20
> is assumed
> > that this
> > function is provided w/o CAPWAP involvement, while a blacklist is
> > provided
> > by CAPWAP. If I understsand correct, you would like a replicated =20
> > set of
> > messages
> > to serve as the permit list? Do others agree?
>=20
> Yes -- My Point.  In a secure environment I want to say what is =20
> allowed and forbid other things.
Need others to chime in. A MAC Filter, while typical for APs, is not
what I would consider secure.

>=20
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> i) Page 70 -- Image Data -- do not understand how this can work --
> >>> only
> >>> 2 fragments allowed -- no count of what is being sent etc
> >> -- no way to
> >>> detect packet loss ---  why not use data xfer mechanism of
> >> tftp ?  --
> >>> the blocks are numbered =3D=3D etc BUT define a md5 hash of the =
whole
> >>> image
> >>> and give its length in the initial request.
> >>>
> >>> Suj> LWAPP has the in-band Image transfer mechanism, some
> >> protocols
> >>> use
> >>> what you have specified.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I do not understand how this can work as defined in the text.  I
> >> understand I could overlay it but it needs a definition.
> >
> > Could you help identify what needs a definition?
>=20
>=20
> I did not understand (and now do) how this mechanism works. =20
> But I do =20
> not understand how one knows the transfer is finished?
>=20
> Is there also another end-case to know if the xfer is beginning ?
Philip and I have talked, and I believe that a small change to text
has resolved his comment. Issue tracker 31 has been created for this.
I have resolved this by adding the following text to the description of
the Image Data information element:
      If the last block was 1024 in length, an Image
      Data with a zero length payload is sent.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
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Issue 42 created, although there is no agreement to make this change at
this time.
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:40 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: PMK Sharing
=09
=09

	Pat,

	=20

	Issue:

	In the case of an AC managing a same PMK across many WTPs, IEEE
802.11 stations cannot distinguish between PMKs that are validly shared
and those that have been compromised (I0 of Issues/Recommendations).

	=20

	My recommendation:

	Include text in the Security Considerations
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 15 along the lines;

	=20

	"The CAPWAP protocol may be used in scenarios in which an AC
manages a PMK across many WTPs. In such scenarios, IEEE 802.11 stations
moving across WTPs cannot distinguish between PMKs that are legitimately
shared and PMKs that have been compromised.=20

	=20

	The CAPWAP WG recognizes this ambiguity and recommends
implementers of the protocol to review the outcome of IEEE 802.11r
efforts for resolution."

	=20

=09
	Saravanan=20

	=20

	=20


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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D353202519-20012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Issue=20
42 created, although there is no agreement to make this change at this=20
time.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan=20
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Wednesday,=20
  January 18, 2006 5:40 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> PMK =
Sharing<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Issue:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In the case of an AC =
managing a=20
  same PMK across many WTPs, IEEE 802.11 stations cannot distinguish =
between=20
  PMKs that are validly shared and those that have been compromised (I0 =
of=20
  Issues/Recommendations).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My=20
  recommendation:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Include text in the =
Security=20
  Considerations (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 15 along the=20
  lines;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8220;The CAPWAP =
protocol may be used=20
  in scenarios in which an AC manages a PMK across many WTPs. In such =
scenarios,=20
  IEEE 802.11 stations moving across WTPs cannot distinguish between =
PMKs that=20
  are legitimately shared and PMKs that have been compromised.=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The CAPWAP WG recognizes =
this=20
  ambiguity and recommends implementers of the protocol to review the =
outcome of=20
  IEEE 802.11r efforts for =
resolution.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR>Saravanan=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
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  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
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Thread-Topic: Default mode for logical groups
Thread-Index: AcYcl5TWMIIGbIwiRmOufZe4zQIvuQBX7WIA
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
        <capwap@frascone.com>
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Issue 41 created although there is no agreement to this change at this
time.
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:28 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: Default mode for logical groups
=09
=09

	Pat,

	=20

	Issue:=20

	Assign a default mode for configuring logical groups
(draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments.
This makes for consistent configuration and management across logical
groups.=20

	=20

	=20

	My recommendation:

	Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config message
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map wired-segment
VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and most common
case for logical groups.=20

	=20

	Then include description of logical group configuration in BSSID
to WLAN ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4).=20

	=20

=09
	Saravanan


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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D877362519-20012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Issue=20
41 created although there is no agreement to this change at this=20
time.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan=20
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Wednesday,=20
  January 18, 2006 5:28 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Default mode for logical=20
  groups<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue:=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Assign a default mode =
for=20
  configuring logical groups (draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) =
Section 5.1.1=20
  and (draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless =
segments.=20
  This makes for consistent configuration and management across logical =
groups.=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My=20
  recommendation:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Introduce a message =
element in the=20
  WLAN Config message (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 =
to map=20
  wired-segment VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest =
and most=20
  common case for logical groups. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Then include description =
of=20
  logical group configuration in BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping=20
  (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4).=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><BR>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BOD=
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
        <capwap@frascone.com>
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Issue 43 created.
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:47 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: IEEE 802.11i Considerations
=09
=09

	Pat,

=09
=09
=09

	Issue:

	In cases where IEEE 802.11i encryption/decryption is located in
a WTP and IEEE 802.11i authenticator is located in an AC, there is a
mismatch in tracking KeyRSC values (draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt)
Section 5.1.10. The CAPWAP protocol must allow the 4-way and Group-key
exchanges to use accurate values of KeyRSC and KeyMIC in all cases.=20

	=20

	My recommendation:

	Introduce new Key Configuration & Key Configuration Response
messages as part of Message Types (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt)
Section 4.2.1.1. Key Configuration message will be used to exchange 3rd
message (for 4-way exchange & with unassigned KeyMIC and KeyRSC fields)
and 1st message (for group-key exchange & with unassigned KeyMIC and
KeyRSC fields).=20

	=20

	Describe use of Key Configuration as part of WTP Configuration
Management (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-o3.txt) Section 7.=20

	=20

	=20

	Saravanan=20

	=20

	=20


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size=3D2>Issue=20
43 created.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan=20
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Wednesday,=20
  January 18, 2006 6:47 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> IEEE 802.11i=20
  Considerations<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Issue:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In cases where IEEE =
802.11i=20
  encryption/decryption is located in a WTP and IEEE 802.11i =
authenticator is=20
  located in an AC, there is a mismatch in tracking KeyRSC values=20
  (draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.10. The CAPWAP =
protocol must=20
  allow the 4-way and Group-key exchanges to use accurate values of =
KeyRSC and=20
  KeyMIC in all cases. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My=20
  recommendation:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Introduce new Key =
Configuration=20
  &amp; Key Configuration Response messages as part of Message Types=20
  (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 4.2.1.1. Key Configuration =
message=20
  will be used to exchange 3<SUP>rd</SUP> message (for 4-way exchange =
&amp; with=20
  unassigned KeyMIC and KeyRSC fields) and 1<SUP>st</SUP> message (for =
group-key=20
  exchange &amp; with unassigned KeyMIC and KeyRSC fields).=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Describe use of Key =
Configuration=20
  as part of WTP Configuration Management =
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-o3.txt)=20
  Section 7. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Saravanan=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>

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Thread-Topic: Local-MAC & Split-MAC Negotiations
Thread-Index: AcYcpUMf740yQ5RlQquDnQJZAhQclwBUmebw
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
        <capwap@frascone.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] RE: Local-MAC & Split-MAC Negotiations
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This request is already encompased in tracker entries 3 and 4, which I
have already addressed and sent text earlier this week.
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:06 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: Local-MAC & Split-MAC Negotiations
=09
=09

	Pat,

	=20

=09
	Issue:

	The CAPWAP protocol is expected to support major WTP designs. It
is important for information on these design types to be exchanged
during configuration so that subsequent protocol operations are
consistent and accurate.=20

	=20

	My recommendation:

	To specify WTP characteristics as part of Discovery state
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5. The following message
elements to be included to Discovery Request
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5.1;

	=20

	MAC Type - Split-MAC, Local-MAC

	MAC Frame Type - Native (IEEE 802.11), IEEE 802.3, No frames
(local bridging)

	IEEE 802.11i Design - Encryption & Authenticator on same entity,
Encryption on WTP & Authenticator on AC

	=20

	=20

	=20

	Saravanan=20


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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D514182819-20012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>This=20
request is already encompased in tracker entries 3 and 4, which I have =
already=20
addressed and sent text earlier this week.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan=20
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Wednesday,=20
  January 18, 2006 7:06 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Local-MAC &amp; Split-MAC=20
  Negotiations<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><BR>Issue:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The CAPWAP protocol is =
expected to=20
  support major WTP designs. It is important for information on these =
design=20
  types to be exchanged during configuration so that subsequent protocol =

  operations are consistent and accurate. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My=20
  recommendation:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To specify WTP =
characteristics as=20
  part of Discovery state (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5. =
The=20
  following message elements to be included to Discovery Request=20
  (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section =
5.1;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">MAC Type &#8211; =
Split-MAC,=20
  Local-MAC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">MAC Frame Type &#8211; =
Native (IEEE=20
  802.11), IEEE 802.3, No frames (local =
bridging)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">IEEE 802.11i Design =
&#8211; Encryption=20
  &amp; Authenticator on same entity, Encryption on WTP &amp; =
Authenticator on=20
  AC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Saravanan=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
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So you've confused me. Typically, a CAPWAP enabled WTP would not be
connected to a trunk, but would instead be treated as a normal host on
an Ethernet network. Therefore the edge port would be configured to a
specific VLAN. All CAPWAP traffic would be sent on a single VLAN. What
you are implying is that some CAPWAP traffic is sent on one VLAN, while
some on a different VLAN, meaning that the WTP has multiple IP
addresses.
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:05 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups
=09
=09

	Hi Pat,

	=20

	My point here is not with the location of the bridging function,
rather the way the protocol manages logical groups in general.=20

	=20

	It is a need arising from two objectives
(draft-ietf-objectives-04) - Logical Groups (Section 5.1.1) and Resource
Control Objective (5.1.7). So the need is to provide logical subsets -
with the ability to manage resources on both wireless segment and the
wired segment. I see this as requiring a type of mapping between the
wired segment, say VLAN, and wireless segment, say BSSID.=20

	=20

	So even in the case of an AC doing bridging, it needs to be able
to configure its WTPs so that the WTPs can map between the right wired
segment VLAN and right wireless segment BSSID.=20
=09
	I think this can be provided by including a configuration
element for the WTP, which maps VLAN to BSSID for each of the logical
groups being configured in the WLAN system.=20

	=20

	I'm open to any other ways of realizing these two objectives.=20

	=20

	Saravanan

	=20

	=20

	=20

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
	Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:18 AM
	To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

	=20

	I think the crux of the problem is that in Local MAC the
bridging function is provided by the WTP, and therefore it needs a VLAN.
However, pushing this to a WTP when bridging is performed in the AC
would be pointless since the WTP is never connected to a trunk.
Unfortunately, by relocating the bridging function, there is no way to
make this common :(

	=20

	Pat Calhoun
	CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
	Cisco Systems

	=20

		=20

	=09
________________________________


		From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
		Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:17 PM
		To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

		Pat,

		=20

		I see your point.=20

		=20

		My concern is with the operation of the consistent
operation of the protocol. So if we were to design in such a way that
each logical group - or WLAN  - is a VLAN + a BSSID, then it makes
configuring local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs similar.=20

		=20

		I think the current protocol already does what we are
talking about in some form. It would be nice to bring out how logical
group configuration works is a common way for local-MAC and split-MAC
WTPs.

		=20

		Do you think this is the case?
	=09
		Saravanan=20

		=20

		=20

		=20

	=09
________________________________


		From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]

		Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:57 AM
		To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

		=20

		Thanks for the e-mail. I recall this conversation, but I
believe where I am getting confused is what we believe is missing.=20

		=20

		I believe we can agree that if *any* form of tunneling
is occuring, then no mapping is required since VLANs will be enforced on
the AC. Further, the protocol already has a provision to specify the
VLAN to associate with a given user when Local MAC is used.

		Pat Calhoun
		CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
		Cisco Systems

		=20

			=20

		=09
________________________________


			From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
			Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:28 PM
			To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
			Subject: Default mode for logical groups

			Pat,

			=20

			Issue:=20

			Assign a default mode for configuring logical
groups (draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments.
This makes for consistent configuration and management across logical
groups.=20

			=20

			=20

			My recommendation:

			Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config
message (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map
wired-segment VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and
most common case for logical groups.=20

			=20

			Then include description of logical group
configuration in BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4).=20

			=20

		=09
			Saravanan


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<DIV><SPAN class=3D564292919-20012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>So=20
you've confused me. Typically, a CAPWAP enabled WTP would not be =
connected to a=20
trunk, but would instead be treated as a normal host on an Ethernet =
network.=20
Therefore the edge port would be configured to a specific VLAN. All =
CAPWAP=20
traffic would be sent&nbsp;on a single VLAN. What you are implying is =
that some=20
CAPWAP traffic is sent on one VLAN, while some on a different VLAN, =
meaning that=20
the WTP has multiple IP addresses.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan=20
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Wednesday,=20
  January 18, 2006 10:05 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Default mode for logical=20
  groups<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
  Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My point here is not =
with the=20
  location of the bridging function, rather the way the protocol manages =
logical=20
  groups in general. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It is a need arising =
from two=20
  objectives (draft-ietf-objectives-04) &#8211; Logical Groups (Section =
5.1.1) and=20
  Resource Control Objective (5.1.7). So the need is to provide logical =
subsets=20
  &#8211; with the ability to manage resources on both wireless segment =
and the wired=20
  segment. I see this as requiring a type of mapping between the wired =
segment,=20
  say VLAN, and wireless segment, say BSSID. =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">So even in the case of =
an AC doing=20
  bridging, it needs to be able to configure its WTPs so that the WTPs =
can map=20
  between the right wired segment VLAN and right wireless segment BSSID. =

  <BR><BR>I think this can be provided by including a configuration =
element for=20
  the WTP, which maps VLAN to BSSID for each of the logical groups being =

  configured in the WLAN system. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I&#8217;m open to any =
other ways of=20
  realizing these two objectives. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma"> Pat=20
  Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, January 19, =
2006 11:18=20
  AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
<st1:PersonName=20
  w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>; =
capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: Default mode for =
logical=20
  groups</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think the =
crux of=20
  the problem is that in Local MAC the bridging function is provided by =
the WTP,=20
  and therefore it needs a VLAN. However, pushing this to a WTP when =
bridging is=20
  performed in the AC would be pointless since the WTP is never =
connected to a=20
  trunk. Unfortunately, by relocating the bridging function, there is no =
way to=20
  make this common :(</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat=20
  Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<BR>Cisco=20
  Systems<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt =
3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: =
medium none">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
    </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
    size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
    face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">=20
    <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>=20
    [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, January 18, =
2006 7:17=20
    PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Pat =
Calhoun=20
    (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: Default mode for =
logical=20
    groups</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I see your point.=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My concern is with the =
operation=20
    of the consistent operation of the protocol. So if we were to design =
in such=20
    a way that each logical group - or WLAN &nbsp;- is a VLAN + a BSSID, =
then it=20
    makes configuring local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs similar.=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think the current =
protocol=20
    already does what we are talking about in some form. It would be =
nice to=20
    bring out how logical group configuration works is a common way for=20
    local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Do you think this is =
the=20
    case?<BR><BR>Saravanan <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <DIV>
    <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
    </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
    face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma"> Pat=20
    Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, January 19, =
2006 10:57=20
    AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
<st1:PersonName=20
    w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>;=20
    capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: Default mode for =
logical=20
    groups</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks =
for the=20
    e-mail. I recall this conversation, but I believe where I am getting =

    confused is what we believe is missing. =
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I believe =
we can=20
    agree that if *any* form of tunneling is occuring, then no mapping =
is=20
    required since VLANs will be enforced on the AC. Further, the =
protocol=20
    already has a provision to specify the VLAN to associate with a =
given user=20
    when Local MAC is used.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
    <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat=20
    Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<BR>Cisco=20
    Systems<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt =
3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: =
medium none">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =

      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
      face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
      <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
      </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
      size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
      face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">=20
      <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>=20
      [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, January =
18, 2006=20
      5:28 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Pat =
Calhoun=20
      (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Default mode for =
logical=20
      groups</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue:=20
      <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Assign a default =
mode for=20
      configuring logical groups (draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) =
Section=20
      5.1.1 and (draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and =
wireless=20
      segments. This makes for consistent configuration and management =
across=20
      logical groups. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My=20
      recommendation:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Introduce a message =
element in=20
      the WLAN Config message (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section =
11.8.2=20
      to map wired-segment VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the =

      simplest and most common case for logical groups.=20
      <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Then include =
description of=20
      logical group configuration in BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping=20
      (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4).=20
      <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><BR>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions regarding LWAPP draft v03
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:35:16 -0800
Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A201437D9C@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Questions regarding LWAPP draft v03
Thread-Index: AcYc4a+gr9vzgFp2Q/SRfBE/LCm2FABFpJKg
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "BOURDON Gilles RD-CORE-ISS" <gilles.bourdon@francetelecom.com>,
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1- The Control Message format (section 4.2.1) indicates the message type
is 8-bit encoded. Don't you think this numbering space could be too
small, for further extensions? The section might also mention how this
numbering space is managed (IANA?). Same thing for section 4.2.2.
(Message Element Format), refering to section 16 which is empty.
<PRC> Created tracker entry 44

2- I know that the evaluation team asked for an extension of the Type
field. It might seem obvious, but I think that having its length equal
to the Element ID field of the Vendor-Specific element would make sense.
<PRC> This request already exists by the eval team, and has already been
taken care of.

3- I cannot figure out why Clear Config Indication is the only message
that doesn't need acknowledgment from the WTP. Any particular reason?
<PRC> Indication messages are acknowledged at the reliable link layer,
and no response is required.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20
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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:36:31 -0800
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Subject: [Capwap] MTU Discovery
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I understand the LWAPP will no longer layer 2 transport.  Is there  
any reason why we should just not require MTU discovery and remove  
the option from the spec.
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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Richard,
=20
Sorry, you've lost me, but the original request was to provide a pointer
of some form to the IEEE MIB variables.
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]=20
	Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:11 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
=09
=09

	Hi Pat,

	=20

	I refer to the issue on "Using MIB variable names instead" on
the issue tracker. In addition to using MIBs, there is also a need for
the protocol to define its own statistics and configuration items. Such
items can be used for functionalities that include congestion
monitoring, feedback etc.

	=20

	Thus I will like to recommend to include the definition of the
protocol's own statistics and configuration items and that one of these
statistics items to be used for congestion control and feedback.

	=20

	Thanks and regards

	Richard

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
	Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:57 AM
	To: capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: [Capwap] Done w/ Issue Tracker

	=20

	All,

	=20

	I believe that I've entered all entries posted to the list after
November 1st. If you have any change requests on the list prior to that
date, please forward them to me.

	=20

	The issue tracker can be found at www.capwap.org. Please note
that if you search with no filters, you will find both open and resolved
bugs. A normal "Show All" does not display the resolved issues.

	=20

	Pat Calhoun
	CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
	Cisco Systems

	=20

=09
________________________________


=09

=09
Republic Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922
. www.rp.sg <http://www.rp.sg>  . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20
 From March 2006, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands
Avenue 9, Singapore 738964.

Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully
adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to
strive towards best practices and maintain excellence in service
standards with the following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class
(SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and
QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)

________________________________

=09

CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of
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"Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto
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	COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply
}
DIV.Section1 {
	page: Section1
}
</STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY vLink=3Dblue link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D324053719-20012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Richard,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D324053719-20012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D324053719-20012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Sorry,=20
you've lost me, but the original request was to provide a pointer of =
some form=20
to the IEEE MIB variables.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Richard Gwee =
[mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]=20
  <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:11 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat =
Calhoun=20
  (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Capwap] Addition =
to MIB=20
  issue<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
  Pat,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I refer to =
the issue=20
  on &#8220;Using MIB variable names instead&#8221; on the issue =
tracker. In addition to=20
  using MIBs, there is also a need for the protocol to define its own =
statistics=20
  and configuration items. Such items can be used for functionalities =
that=20
  include congestion monitoring, feedback etc.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thus I will =
like to=20
  recommend to include the definition of the protocol&#8217;s own =
statistics and=20
  configuration items and that one of these statistics items to be used =
for=20
  congestion control and feedback.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks and=20
  regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Richard</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <DIV>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
  <HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma"> Pat=20
  Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, January 19, =
2006 5:57=20
  AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>=20
  [Capwap] Done w/ Issue Tracker</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">All,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I believe that I've =
entered all=20
  entries posted to the list after November 1st. If you have any change =
requests=20
  on the list prior to that date, please forward them to=20
  me.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The issue tracker can be =
found at=20
  <A href=3D"http://www.capwap.org">www.capwap.org</A>. Please note that =
if you=20
  search with no filters, you will find both open and resolved bugs. A =
normal=20
  "Show All" does not display the resolved =
issues.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat=20
  Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<BR>Cisco=20
  Systems</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV></DIV><!--[object_id=3D#rp.sg#]-->
  <P align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 size=3D3>
  <HR>

  <P></P></FONT>
  <P align=3Dcenter>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR>
      <TD width=3D"100%">
        <P align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Republic =
Polytechnic, Tanglin=20
        Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922<BR>. </FONT><A=20
        title=3Dhttp://www.rp.edu.sg/ href=3D"http://www.rp.sg"><FONT=20
        title=3Dhttp://www.rp.edu.sg/ face=3DTahoma color=3Dblue =
size=3D2><U=20
        title=3Dhttp://www.rp.edu.sg/>www.rp.sg</U></FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
        size=3D2> . Fax: +65 6415-1310 . =
<BR><EM>&nbsp;From&nbsp;<U>March=20
        2006</U>, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands =
Avenue 9,=20
        Singapore 738964.</EM></FONT></P>
    <TR>
      <TD>
        <P align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D1><I>Republic =
Polytechnic, the=20
        first Institute of Higher Learning to fully adopt the =
Problem-Based=20
        Learning approach in Singapore, continues to strive towards best =

        practices and maintain excellence in service standards with the=20
        following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class (SIC), =
Singapore=20
        Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and QEHS (ISO =
9001,=20
        14001 and OHSAS 18001)</I></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  <HR>

  <P></P>
  <DIV align=3Dcenter>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR>
      <TD width=3D"100%"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D1>CONFIDENTIALITY =
CAUTION: This=20
        message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity =
to whom=20
        it is addressed and contains information that is privileged and=20
        confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the =
intended=20
        recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this=20
        communication. If you have received this communication in error, =
please=20
        notify us immediately by return email and delete the original =
message.=20
        Thank you.=20
</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Jan 20 14:41:03 2006
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Thread-Topic: MTU Discovery
Thread-Index: AcYd+N4K37zLnZi5SEyWbMX3O5w8EgAAG62Q
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Philip Rakity" <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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No, we've agreed to do application layer fragmentation/reassembly, and
therefore we have a need to identify the link layer's MTU size.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 11:37 AM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Cc: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Subject: MTU Discovery
>=20
>=20
> I understand the LWAPP will no longer layer 2 transport.  Is=20
> there any reason why we should just not require MTU discovery=20
> and remove the option from the spec.
>=20
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Issue 45 created.
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]=20
	Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:24 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
	Cc: capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: Issue on Combining messages
=09
=09

	Hi Pat,

	=20

	I will like to propose a new thread on the issue tracker.
Appreciate if you can help to add it in.

	=20

	Issue:

	=20

	Currently, the keepalive and statistics messages are separated.
Separate messages for keepalive signaling and statistics can lead to
high overhead. Initial analysis have shown that these overhead can be
reduced significantly if the messages can be combined.

	=20

	Recommendation:

	=20

	To combine the keepalive and statistics message into one
combined message, thus reducing overhead significantly.

	=20

	Thanks and regards

	Richard

=09
________________________________


=09

=09
Republic Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922
. www.rp.sg <http://www.rp.sg>  . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20
 From March 2006, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands
Avenue 9, Singapore 738964.

Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully
adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to
strive towards best practices and maintain excellence in service
standards with the following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class
(SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and
QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)

________________________________

=09

CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of
the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains
information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of
this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not
disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received
this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return
email and delete the original message. Thank you. =09


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	COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-compose
}
DIV.Section1 {
	page: Section1
}
</STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D828164119-20012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Issue=20
45 created.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Richard Gwee =
[mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]=20
  <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:24 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat =
Calhoun=20
  (pacalhou)<BR><B>Cc:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Issue =
on=20
  Combining messages<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi =
Pat,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I will like to propose a =
new=20
  thread on the issue tracker. Appreciate if you can help to add it=20
  in.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue:</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Currently, the keepalive =
and=20
  statistics messages are separated. Separate messages for keepalive =
signaling=20
  and statistics can lead to high overhead. Initial analysis have shown =
that=20
  these overhead can be reduced significantly if the messages can be=20
  combined.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Recommendation:</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To combine the keepalive =
and=20
  statistics message into one combined message, thus reducing overhead=20
  significantly.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks and=20
  regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Richard</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><!--[object_id=3D#rp.sg#]-->
  <P align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 size=3D3>
  <HR>

  <P></P></FONT>
  <P align=3Dcenter>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR>
      <TD width=3D"100%">
        <P align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Republic =
Polytechnic, Tanglin=20
        Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922<BR>. </FONT><A=20
        title=3Dhttp://www.rp.edu.sg/ href=3D"http://www.rp.sg"><FONT=20
        title=3Dhttp://www.rp.edu.sg/ face=3DTahoma color=3Dblue =
size=3D2><U=20
        title=3Dhttp://www.rp.edu.sg/>www.rp.sg</U></FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
        size=3D2> . Fax: +65 6415-1310 . =
<BR><EM>&nbsp;From&nbsp;<U>March=20
        2006</U>, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands =
Avenue 9,=20
        Singapore 738964.</EM></FONT></P>
    <TR>
      <TD>
        <P align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D1><I>Republic =
Polytechnic, the=20
        first Institute of Higher Learning to fully adopt the =
Problem-Based=20
        Learning approach in Singapore, continues to strive towards best =

        practices and maintain excellence in service standards with the=20
        following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class (SIC), =
Singapore=20
        Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and QEHS (ISO =
9001,=20
        14001 and OHSAS 18001)</I></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  <HR>

  <P></P>
  <DIV align=3Dcenter>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR>
      <TD width=3D"100%"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D1>CONFIDENTIALITY =
CAUTION: This=20
        message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity =
to whom=20
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        confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the =
intended=20
        recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this=20
        communication. If you have received this communication in error, =
please=20
        notify us immediately by return email and delete the original =
message.=20
        Thank you.=20
</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
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=20
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VAL
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IUM
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From: zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
Subject: Re:[Capwap] RE: Local-MAC & Split-MAC Negotiations
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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Dear all

For this feature
Section 11=2E9=2E12  =22IEEE 802=2E11 WTP Mode and Type=22
Can LWAPP redefine the type=3A (Next LWAPP can extend to manage all types=
 of AP)
      0 - Split MAC

      1 - Remote MAC

      2 - Local MAC

      3 - Fat AP

Next give comments=3A =

  The encapsulated data should be in the form of 802=2E3 for Fat AP and L=
ocal MAC=2E  And the encapsulated data should be in the form of 802=2E11 =
for Split AP and Remote MAC=2E

Best regards
Michael





This request is already encompased in tracker entries 3 and 4=2C which I =
have already addressed and sent text earlier this week=2E
 =

Pat Calhoun
CTO=2C Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

 =




-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
From=3A Saravanan Govindan =5Bmailto=3ASaravanan=2EGovindan=40sg=2Epanaso=
nic=2Ecom=5D =

Sent=3A Wednesday=2C January 18=2C 2006 7=3A06 PM
To=3A Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)=3B capwap=40frascone=2Ecom
Subject=3A Local-MAC =26 Split-MAC Negotiations


Pat=2C

 =



Issue=3A

The CAPWAP protocol is expected to support major WTP designs=2E It is imp=
ortant for information on these design types to be exchanged during confi=
guration so that subsequent protocol operations are consistent and accura=
te=2E =


 =


My recommendation=3A

To specify WTP characteristics as part of Discovery state (draft-ohara-ca=
pwap-lwapp-03=2Etxt) Section 5=2E The following message elements to be in=
cluded to Discovery Request (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03=2Etxt) Section 5=
=2E1=3B

 =


MAC Type =A8C Split-MAC=2C Local-MAC

MAC Frame Type =A8C Native (IEEE 802=2E11)=2C IEEE 802=2E3=2C No frames (=
local bridging)

IEEE 802=2E11i Design =A8C Encryption =26 Authenticator on same entity=2C=
 Encryption on WTP =26 Authenticator on AC

 =


 =


 =


Saravanan =




-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options=2C please visit=3A
http=3A//lists=2Efrascone=2Ecom/mailman/listinfo/capwap

Archives=3A http=3A//lists=2Efrascone=2Ecom/pipermail/capwap
 =

 =



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This request is already encompased in tracker entries 3 and 4, which I
have already addressed and sent text earlier this week.
 

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

 


________________________________

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] 
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:06 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: Local-MAC & Split-MAC Negotiations
	
	

	Pat,

	 

	
	Issue:

	The CAPWAP protocol is expected to support major WTP designs. It
is important for information on these design types to be exchanged
during configuration so that subsequent protocol operations are
consistent and accurate. 

	 

	My recommendation:

	To specify WTP characteristics as part of Discovery state
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5. The following message
elements to be included to Discovery Request
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5.1;

	 

	MAC Type - Split-MAC, Local-MAC

	MAC Frame Type - Native (IEEE 802.11), IEEE 802.3, No frames
(local bridging)

	IEEE 802.11i Design - Encryption & Authenticator on same entity,
Encryption on WTP & Authenticator on AC

	 

	 

	 

	Saravanan 


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<DIV><SPAN class=514182819-20012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>This 
request is already encompased in tracker entries 3 and 4, which I have already 
addressed and sent text earlier this week.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=left><FONT size=2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking Business 
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
  <HR tabIndex=-1>
  <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan 
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 
  January 18, 2006 7:06 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); 
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Local-MAC &amp; Split-MAC 
  Negotiations<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=Section1>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR>Issue:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The CAPWAP protocol is expected to 
  support major WTP designs. It is important for information on these design 
  types to be exchanged during configuration so that subsequent protocol 
  operations are consistent and accurate. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My 
  recommendation:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To specify WTP characteristics as 
  part of Discovery state (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5. The 
  following message elements to be included to Discovery Request 
  (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5.1;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">MAC Type &#8211; Split-MAC, 
  Local-MAC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">MAC Frame Type &#8211; Native (IEEE 
  802.11), IEEE 802.3, No frames (local bridging)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">IEEE 802.11i Design &#8211; Encryption 
  &amp; Authenticator on same entity, Encryption on WTP &amp; Authenticator on 
  AC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Saravanan 
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Jan 23 08:55:52 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:54:49 +0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
thread-index: AcYcehnLehEPfW3lSAGbqYvk46RYQQA/B0NQACCreEAAipnZUA==
From: "Richard Gwee" <richard_gwee@rp.sg>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Hi Pat,

=20

I am sorry over the confusion. In this case, can you create an issue
thread?

=20

Issue: There exists a need for the CAPWAP protocol to define its own
current statistics and configuration items. It will be good if the
definition of such items can be explicitly stated at a sufficient level.
Functionalities for the use of such items should be considered such as
QoS monitoring, security purposes, congestion control, feedback for
example. To a certain extent, this can help to improve the performance
of the CAPWAP protocol.

=20

Recommendation: To include definition of the protocol's own definition
of configuration and statistics items. To also include the purpose of
these items in the area of monitoring purposes, security purposes,
congestion control, feedback etc.

=20

Thanks and regards

Richard

  =20

=20

________________________________

From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:38 AM
To: Richard Gwee; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue

=20

Richard,

=20

Sorry, you've lost me, but the original request was to provide a pointer
of some form to the IEEE MIB variables.

=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]=20
	Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:11 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue

	Hi Pat,

	=20

	I refer to the issue on "Using MIB variable names instead" on
the issue tracker. In addition to using MIBs, there is also a need for
the protocol to define its own statistics and configuration items. Such
items can be used for functionalities that include congestion
monitoring, feedback etc.

	=20

	Thus I will like to recommend to include the definition of the
protocol's own statistics and configuration items and that one of these
statistics items to be used for congestion control and feedback.

	=20

	Thanks and regards

	Richard

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
	Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:57 AM
	To: capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: [Capwap] Done w/ Issue Tracker

	=20

	All,

	=20

	I believe that I've entered all entries posted to the list after
November 1st. If you have any change requests on the list prior to that
date, please forward them to me.

	=20

	The issue tracker can be found at www.capwap.org. Please note
that if you search with no filters, you will find both open and resolved
bugs. A normal "Show All" does not display the resolved issues.

	=20

	Pat Calhoun
	CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
	Cisco Systems

	=20

=09
________________________________

Republic Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922
. www.rp.sg <http://www.rp.sg>  . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20
 From March 2006, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands
Avenue 9, Singapore 738964.

Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully
adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to
strive towards best practices and maintain excellence in service
standards with the following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class
(SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and
QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)

=09
________________________________

CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of
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</head>

<body link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Pat,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am sorry over the confusion. In =
this
case, can you create an issue thread?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Issue: There exists a need for the =
CAPWAP
protocol to define its own current statistics and configuration items. =
It will
be good if the definition of such items can be explicitly stated at a
sufficient level. Functionalities for the use of such items should be
considered such as QoS monitoring, security purposes, congestion =
control,
feedback for example. To a certain extent, this can help to improve the
performance of the CAPWAP protocol.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Recommendation: To include =
definition of
the protocol&#8217;s own definition of configuration and statistics =
items. To
also include the purpose of these items in the area of monitoring =
purposes, security
purposes, congestion control, feedback etc.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks and =
regards</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Richard</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Pat Calhoun
(pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, January =
21, 2006
3:38 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Richard Gwee;
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Capwap] =
Addition to
MIB issue</span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Richard,</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Sorry, you've lost me, but the =
original
request was to provide a pointer of some form to the IEEE MIB =
variables.</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat
Calhoun<br>
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<br>
Cisco Systems</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Richard
Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
19, 2006
8:11 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Pat Calhoun =
(pacalhou);
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Capwap] =
Addition to MIB
issue</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Pat,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I refer to the issue on =
&#8220;Using MIB
variable names instead&#8221; on the issue tracker. In addition to using =
MIBs,
there is also a need for the protocol to define its own statistics and
configuration items. Such items can be used for functionalities that =
include
congestion monitoring, feedback etc.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thus I will like to recommend to =
include
the definition of the protocol&#8217;s own statistics and configuration =
items
and that one of these statistics items to be used for congestion control =
and
feedback.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks and =
regards</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Richard</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Pat Calhoun
(pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
19, 2006
5:57 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Capwap] Done w/ =
Issue
Tracker</span></font></p>

</div>

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</div>

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I believe that I've entered all entries posted to the =
list
after November 1st. If you have any change requests on the list prior to =
that
date, please forward them to me.</span></font></p>

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</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The issue tracker can be found at <a =
href=3D"http://www.capwap.org">www.capwap.org</a>. Please note that if =
you search
with no filters, you will find both open and resolved bugs. A normal =
&quot;Show
All&quot; does not display the resolved issues.</span></font></p>

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<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat
Calhoun<br>
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<br>
Cisco Systems</span></font></p>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
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From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: "Richard Gwee" <richard_gwee@rp.sg>,
        "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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In other words, are you talking about defining a MIB? A SMIv2 definition
of the management objects (for 'monitoring purposes, security purposes,
congestion control, feedback etc') could be used either in-band with
CAPWAP or out-of-band with SNMP.
=20
I would like to observe that the WG has a chartered item for the
definition of a MIB module. It should go to WGLC this month actually.
The chairs would probably ask for a time extension.=20
=20
Regards,
=20
Dan
=20
=20
=20
=20


  _____ =20

	From: Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]=20
	Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:55 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
=09
=09

	Hi Pat,

	=20

	I am sorry over the confusion. In this case, can you create an
issue thread?

	=20

	Issue: There exists a need for the CAPWAP protocol to define its
own current statistics and configuration items. It will be good if the
definition of such items can be explicitly stated at a sufficient level.
Functionalities for the use of such items should be considered such as
QoS monitoring, security purposes, congestion control, feedback for
example. To a certain extent, this can help to improve the performance
of the CAPWAP protocol.

	=20

	Recommendation: To include definition of the protocol's own
definition of configuration and statistics items. To also include the
purpose of these items in the area of monitoring purposes, security
purposes, congestion control, feedback etc.

	=20

	Thanks and regards

	Richard

	  =20

	=20

=09
  _____ =20


	From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
	Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:38 AM
	To: Richard Gwee; capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue

	=20

	Richard,

	=20

	Sorry, you've lost me, but the original request was to provide a
pointer of some form to the IEEE MIB variables.

	=20

	Pat Calhoun
	CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
	Cisco Systems

	=20

		=20

	=09
  _____ =20


		From: Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]=20
		Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:11 PM
		To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue

		Hi Pat,

		=20

		I refer to the issue on "Using MIB variable names
instead" on the issue tracker. In addition to using MIBs, there is also
a need for the protocol to define its own statistics and configuration
items. Such items can be used for functionalities that include
congestion monitoring, feedback etc.

		=20

		Thus I will like to recommend to include the definition
of the protocol's own statistics and configuration items and that one of
these statistics items to be used for congestion control and feedback.

		=20

		Thanks and regards

		Richard

		=20

	=09
  _____ =20


		From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]

		Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:57 AM
		To: capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: [Capwap] Done w/ Issue Tracker

		=20

		All,

		=20

		I believe that I've entered all entries posted to the
list after November 1st. If you have any change requests on the list
prior to that date, please forward them to me.

		=20

		The issue tracker can be found at www.capwap.org. Please
note that if you search with no filters, you will find both open and
resolved bugs. A normal "Show All" does not display the resolved issues.

		=20

		Pat Calhoun
		CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
		Cisco Systems

		=20

	=09
  _____ =20

Republic Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922
. www.rp.sg <http://www.rp.sg>  . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20
 From March 2006, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands
Avenue 9, Singapore 738964.

Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully
adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to
strive towards best practices and maintain excellence in service
standards with the following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class
(SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and
QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)

	=09
  _____ =20

CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of
the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains
information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of
this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not
disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received
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email and delete the original message. Thank you.=20

		=20


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<BODY vLink=3Dblue link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><STRONG><EM>In other words,&nbsp;are you&nbsp;talking =
about=20
defining a MIB? A SMIv2 definition of the management objects (for =
'monitoring=20
purposes, security purposes, congestion control, feedback etc') could be =
used=20
either in-band with CAPWAP or out-of-band with=20
SNMP.</EM></STRONG></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>I would like to observe that the WG has a chartered item for =
the=20
definition of a MIB module. It should go to WGLC this month actually. =
The chairs=20
would probably ask for a time extension. =
</FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Dan</FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Richard Gwee =
[mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]=20
  <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 23, 2006 3:55 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat =
Calhoun=20
  (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Capwap] =
Addition to=20
  MIB issue<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
  Pat,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am sorry =
over the=20
  confusion. In this case, can you create an issue =
thread?</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue: =
There exists a=20
  need for the CAPWAP protocol to define its own current statistics and=20
  configuration items. It will be good if the definition of such items =
can be=20
  explicitly stated at a sufficient level. Functionalities for the use =
of such=20
  items should be considered such as QoS monitoring, security purposes,=20
  congestion control, feedback for example. To a certain extent, this =
can help=20
  to improve the performance of the CAPWAP protocol.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Recommendation: To=20
  include definition of the protocol&#8217;s own definition of =
configuration and=20
  statistics items. To also include the purpose of these items in the =
area of=20
  monitoring purposes, security purposes, congestion control, feedback=20
  etc.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks and=20
  regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Richard</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <DIV>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
  <HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma"> Pat=20
  Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, January 21, =
2006 3:38=20
  AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Richard =
Gwee;=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>=20
  RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Richard,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sorry, =
you've lost=20
  me, but the original request was to provide a pointer of some form to =
the IEEE=20
  MIB variables.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat=20
  Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<BR>Cisco=20
  Systems</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt =
3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: =
medium none">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
    <HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2>
    </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
    size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
    face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">=20
    Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg] <BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, January 19, =
2006 8:11=20
    PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Pat =
Calhoun=20
    (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Capwap] Addition to =
MIB=20
    issue</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
    Pat,</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I refer =
to the=20
    issue on &#8220;Using MIB variable names instead&#8221; on the issue =
tracker. In=20
    addition to using MIBs, there is also a need for the protocol to =
define its=20
    own statistics and configuration items. Such items can be used for=20
    functionalities that include congestion monitoring, feedback=20
    etc.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thus I =
will like to=20
    recommend to include the definition of the protocol&#8217;s own =
statistics and=20
    configuration items and that one of these statistics items to be =
used for=20
    congestion control and feedback.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks =
and=20
    regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Richard</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <DIV>
    <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
    <HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2>
    </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
    face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma"> Pat=20
    Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, January 19, =
2006 5:57=20
    AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
    capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Capwap] Done w/ =
Issue=20
    Tracker</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">All,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I believe that I've =
entered all=20
    entries posted to the list after November 1st. If you have any =
change=20
    requests on the list prior to that date, please forward them to=20
    me.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The issue tracker can =
be found=20
    at <A href=3D"http://www.capwap.org">www.capwap.org</A>. Please note =
that if=20
    you search with no filters, you will find both open and resolved =
bugs. A=20
    normal "Show All" does not display the resolved=20
    issues.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat=20
    Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<BR>Cisco=20
    Systems</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV><!--[object_id=3D#rp.sg#]-->
    <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
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        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 100%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
        width=3D"100%">
          <P style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
          size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">Republic=20
          Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore =
248922<BR>.=20
          </SPAN></FONT><A title=3Dhttp://www.rp.edu.sg/=20
          href=3D"http://www.rp.sg"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">www.rp.sg</SPAN></FONT></A><FONT=20
          face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">=20
          . Fax: +65 6415-1310 . <BR><EM><I><FONT face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">&nbsp;From&nbsp;<U>March =
2006</U>, we will=20
          be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, Singapore=20
          738964.</SPAN></FONT></I></EM></SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR>
      <TR>
        <TD=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt">
          <P style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><I><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
          size=3D1><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: =
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          Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully =
adopt the=20
          Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to =
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          towards best practices and maintain excellence in service =
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          with the following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class =
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          Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and =
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          (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>,
        "Richard Gwee" <richard_gwee@rp.sg>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Dan is correct. The WG has already stated that we would create a CAPWAP
MIB. Therefore, I don't think that adding a tracker entry is in order
given that I am using tracker for the base draft.
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) [mailto:dromasca@avaya.com]=20
	Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:12 AM
	To: Richard Gwee; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
=09
=09
	In other words, are you talking about defining a MIB? A SMIv2
definition of the management objects (for 'monitoring purposes, security
purposes, congestion control, feedback etc') could be used either
in-band with CAPWAP or out-of-band with SNMP.
	=20
	I would like to observe that the WG has a chartered item for the
definition of a MIB module. It should go to WGLC this month actually.
The chairs would probably ask for a time extension.=20
	=20
	Regards,
	=20
	Dan
	=20
	=20
	=20
	=20


________________________________

		From: Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]=20
		Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:55 PM
		To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
	=09
	=09

		Hi Pat,

		=20

		I am sorry over the confusion. In this case, can you
create an issue thread?

		=20

		Issue: There exists a need for the CAPWAP protocol to
define its own current statistics and configuration items. It will be
good if the definition of such items can be explicitly stated at a
sufficient level. Functionalities for the use of such items should be
considered such as QoS monitoring, security purposes, congestion
control, feedback for example. To a certain extent, this can help to
improve the performance of the CAPWAP protocol.

		=20

		Recommendation: To include definition of the protocol's
own definition of configuration and statistics items. To also include
the purpose of these items in the area of monitoring purposes, security
purposes, congestion control, feedback etc.

		=20

		Thanks and regards

		Richard

		  =20

		=20

	=09
________________________________


		From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]

		Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:38 AM
		To: Richard Gwee; capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue

		=20

		Richard,

		=20

		Sorry, you've lost me, but the original request was to
provide a pointer of some form to the IEEE MIB variables.

		=20

		Pat Calhoun
		CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
		Cisco Systems

		=20

			=20

		=09
________________________________


			From: Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]=20
			Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:11 PM
			To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
			Subject: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue

			Hi Pat,

			=20

			I refer to the issue on "Using MIB variable
names instead" on the issue tracker. In addition to using MIBs, there is
also a need for the protocol to define its own statistics and
configuration items. Such items can be used for functionalities that
include congestion monitoring, feedback etc.

			=20

			Thus I will like to recommend to include the
definition of the protocol's own statistics and configuration items and
that one of these statistics items to be used for congestion control and
feedback.

			=20

			Thanks and regards

			Richard

			=20

		=09
________________________________


			From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
[mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
			Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:57 AM
			To: capwap@frascone.com
			Subject: [Capwap] Done w/ Issue Tracker

			=20

			All,

			=20

			I believe that I've entered all entries posted
to the list after November 1st. If you have any change requests on the
list prior to that date, please forward them to me.

			=20

			The issue tracker can be found at
www.capwap.org. Please note that if you search with no filters, you will
find both open and resolved bugs. A normal "Show All" does not display
the resolved issues.

			=20

			Pat Calhoun
			CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
			Cisco Systems

			=20

		=09
________________________________

Republic Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922
. www.rp.sg <http://www.rp.sg>  . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20
 From March 2006, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands
Avenue 9, Singapore 738964.

Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully
adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to
strive towards best practices and maintain excellence in service
standards with the following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class
(SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and
QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)

		=09
________________________________

CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of
the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains
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			=20


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<BODY vLink=3Dblue link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D144550715-23012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Dan is=20
correct. The WG has already stated that we would create a CAPWAP MIB. =
Therefore,=20
I don't think that adding a tracker entry is in order given that I am =
using=20
tracker for the base draft.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Romascanu, Dan (Dan)=20
  [mailto:dromasca@avaya.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 23, 2006 =
6:12=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Richard Gwee; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB=20
  issue<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff><STRONG><EM>In other words,&nbsp;are you&nbsp;talking =
about=20
  defining a MIB? A SMIv2 definition of the management objects (for =
'monitoring=20
  purposes, security purposes, congestion control, feedback etc') could =
be used=20
  either in-band with CAPWAP or out-of-band with=20
  SNMP.</EM></STRONG></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>I would like to observe that the WG has a chartered item for =
the=20
  definition of a MIB module. It should go to WGLC this month actually. =
The=20
  chairs would probably ask for a time extension.=20
  </FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Dan</FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D086550614-23012006><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
    <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Richard Gwee=20
    [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 23, =
2006 3:55=20
    PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
    capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB=20
    issue<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DSection1>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
    Pat,</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am =
sorry over the=20
    confusion. In this case, can you create an issue =
thread?</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue: =
There exists=20
    a need for the CAPWAP protocol to define its own current statistics =
and=20
    configuration items. It will be good if the definition of such items =
can be=20
    explicitly stated at a sufficient level. Functionalities for the use =
of such=20
    items should be considered such as QoS monitoring, security =
purposes,=20
    congestion control, feedback for example. To a certain extent, this =
can help=20
    to improve the performance of the CAPWAP protocol.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Recommendation: To=20
    include definition of the protocol&#8217;s own definition of =
configuration and=20
    statistics items. To also include the purpose of these items in the =
area of=20
    monitoring purposes, security purposes, congestion control, feedback =

    etc.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks =
and=20
    regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Richard</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <DIV>
    <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
    <HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2>
    </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
    face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma"> Pat=20
    Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, January 21, =
2006 3:38=20
    AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Richard =
Gwee;=20
    capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [Capwap] =
Addition to MIB=20
    issue</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Richard,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sorry, =
you've lost=20
    me, but the original request was to provide a pointer of some form =
to the=20
    IEEE MIB variables.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat=20
    Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<BR>Cisco=20
    Systems</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt =
3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: =
medium none">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =

      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
      face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
      <HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2>
      </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
      size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
      face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">=20
      Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg] <BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, January 19, =
2006 8:11=20
      PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Pat =
Calhoun=20
      (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Capwap] Addition =
to MIB=20
      issue</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
      Pat,</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =

      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I refer =
to the=20
      issue on &#8220;Using MIB variable names instead&#8221; on the =
issue tracker. In=20
      addition to using MIBs, there is also a need for the protocol to =
define=20
      its own statistics and configuration items. Such items can be used =
for=20
      functionalities that include congestion monitoring, feedback=20
      etc.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =

      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thus I =
will like=20
      to recommend to include the definition of the protocol&#8217;s own =
statistics=20
      and configuration items and that one of these statistics items to =
be used=20
      for congestion control and feedback.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =

      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks =
and=20
      regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Richard</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =

      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <DIV>
      <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
      face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
      <HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2>
      </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
      face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Pat=20
      Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, January 19, =
2006 5:57=20
      AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
      capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Capwap] Done w/ =
Issue=20
      Tracker</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =

      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">All,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =

      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I believe that I've =
entered=20
      all entries posted to the list after November 1st. If you have any =
change=20
      requests on the list prior to that date, please forward them to=20
      me.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =

      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The issue tracker =
can be found=20
      at <A href=3D"http://www.capwap.org">www.capwap.org</A>. Please =
note that if=20
      you search with no filters, you will find both open and resolved =
bugs. A=20
      normal "Show All" does not display the resolved=20
      issues.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =

      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
      <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->Pat=20
      Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<BR>Cisco=20
      Systems</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =

      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV><!--[object_id=3D#rp.sg#]-->
      <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
      face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">
      <HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2>
      </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV align=3Dcenter>
      <TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" =
cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"=20
      border=3D0>
        <TBODY>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 100%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          width=3D"100%">
            <P style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
            size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">Republic=20
            Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore =
248922<BR>.=20
            </SPAN></FONT><A title=3Dhttp://www.rp.edu.sg/=20
            href=3D"http://www.rp.sg"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN =

            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">www.rp.sg</SPAN></FONT></A><FONT=20
            face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> . Fax: +65 =
6415-1310 .=20
            <BR><EM><I><FONT face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">&nbsp;From&nbsp;<U>March =
2006</U>, we=20
            will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, =
Singapore=20
            738964.</SPAN></FONT></I></EM></SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt">
            <P style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><I><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
            size=3D1><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">Republic=20
            Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully =
adopt=20
            the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues =
to=20
            strive towards best practices and maintain excellence in =
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] RE: Local-MAC & Split-MAC Negotiations
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 07:09:38 -0800
Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A201438151@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] RE: Local-MAC & Split-MAC Negotiations
Thread-Index: AcYgDa0W4NoFN6txSWasGQboxpq0ywAIUD6A
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "zhaoyujin 31390" <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
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Michael, I believe that I have responded to the original request, which
was to define two separate message elements, one for tunneling and one
for MAC mode. Could you apply your comments based on that proposed text?

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:11 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Cc: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Re:[Capwap] RE: Local-MAC & Split-MAC Negotiations
>=20
> Dear all
>=20
> For this feature
> Section 11.9.12  "IEEE 802.11 WTP Mode and Type"
> Can LWAPP redefine the type: (Next LWAPP can extend to manage=20
> all types of AP)
>       0 - Split MAC
>=20
>       1 - Remote MAC
>=20
>       2 - Local MAC
>=20
>       3 - Fat AP
>=20
> Next give comments:=20
>   The encapsulated data should be in the form of 802.3 for=20
> Fat AP and Local MAC.  And the encapsulated data should be in=20
> the form of 802.11 for Split AP and Remote MAC.
>=20
> Best regards
> Michael
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> This request is already encompased in tracker entries 3 and=20
> 4, which I have already addressed and sent text earlier this week.
> =20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------
> From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:06 PM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Local-MAC & Split-MAC Negotiations
>=20
>=20
> Pat,
>=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
> Issue:
>=20
> The CAPWAP protocol is expected to support major WTP designs.=20
> It is important for information on these design types to be=20
> exchanged during configuration so that subsequent protocol=20
> operations are consistent and accurate.=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> My recommendation:
>=20
> To specify WTP characteristics as part of Discovery state=20
> (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5. The following=20
> message elements to be included to Discovery Request=20
> (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5.1;
>=20
> =20
>=20
> MAC Type - Split-MAC, Local-MAC
>=20
> MAC Frame Type - Native (IEEE 802.11), IEEE 802.3, No frames=20
> (local bridging)
>=20
> IEEE 802.11i Design - Encryption & Authenticator on same=20
> entity, Encryption on WTP & Authenticator on AC
>=20
> =20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Saravanan=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> =20
> =20
>=20
>=20
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] Review of LWAPP 3.0
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I have spent some time going through the latest LWAPP draft (v 3.0) and I
have a number of comments that I think should be resolved. Some of them, I
believe, have been discussed. I think we should add the others to the issues
list.

Thanks,

	Mike

Here they are:

Page 8, Figure 1. Figure 1 refers to the LWAPP architecture for split MAC.
Rename the figure to "Representative LWAPP Architecture for Split MAC".


Page 12, Figure 2. It's possible for the WTP to receiving a new image while
in the RUN state (i.e. image upgrade "out-of-band"). After the image
download is complete and has been verified, the WTP would reset. Would it be
worthwhile to include this case?

Page 12, Figure 2. If the WTP already knows which AC it wants to join with,
it should be possible to "Join" without doing "Discovery". It would speed up
system recovery. 

Page 21, Section 3.1. It would be nice to include a "session identifier" in
the transport header. A session identifier would make it easier to do a
lookup on the WTP.

Page 24, Section 3.3 and Section 6.1. If you have a bit set to identify a
control message, why do you need 2 UDP ports to differentiate between
control and data messages for the protocol?

Page 25, Section 3.3.2. You could use SLP for discovery. SLP describes both
a broadcast mechanism and a unicast mechanism for discovery.

Page 28, Section 4.2.1. The Session ID field is only included in the header
for Control packets. Why it is not included for all packets. It's easier to
do a table lookup using a Session ID versus MAC or other data field.

Page 29, Section 4.2.1.1. Would it make sense to label a range of message
types as "reserved" and/or "vendor specific".

Page 34, Section 5.1.3. The WTP should indicate whether it is capable of
operating in Local/Split MAC modes. Since the presence of the Integration
function on the WTP is the requirement for Local MAC, an additional field
called "Bridging Capability" should be added that would be 0 if the WTP
cannot bridge traffic locally (can only operate in split MAC mode); and 1 if
the WTP can bridge traffic and could operate in either split or local MAC
mode.


Page 34, Section 5.1.3. LWAPP seems to assume that WLAN radios will support
16 BSS's per Radio. It would be better not assume that every WTP supports 16
radios and add a field to indicate the number of virtual networks per radio.

Page 37, Section 5.2.4 (and Section 5.2.5). The first paragraph of this
section refers to "load". How is it defined? If it simply refers to the
number of WTP's, why call it load and simply refer to it as the WTP count.

Page 3, Section 5.3. Why define a separate message for Primary Discovery?
Why not simply add an option in the header of the primary discovery and
reduce the number of messages in the protocol?

Page 42, Section 6.1.4. How does the WTP know its location? Would this be a
GPS sort of thing for outdoors? I would think that for in-building, it would
be better for the AC to tell the WTP where it is. Moreover, we don't really
understand why the WTP needs to understand its location?

Page 43, Section 6.1.7. In order to maintain uniqueness, it would be better
for the AC to generate the session ID and transmit it to the WTP. It's
easier for the AC to maintain uniqueness.

Page 46, Section 6.2.2. The model for sending back status is good. The
definition of the error codes need to be clarified.

Page 52, Section 6.5. CTP has a similar mechanism for keep-alive. In the
case where the network between the AC and the WTP is un-reliable, it was
necessary to address the case where a keep-alive message was dropped. CTP
allows for a fixed number of echo messages to be lost before terminating the
session.

Page 66, Section 7.4.11. Why do you need to provide persistent and
non-persistent Blacklist entries? Does this have to do with the two options
for configuration?

Page 67, Section 7.5. Are there any status codes for Configuration Response?

Page 71, Section 8.3. This command could be combined with the Change State
event. We would assume that system state changes should be controlled by the
AC. That way the AC could reset the WTP to either the Join or Discovery
state.

Page 91, Section 11.1.2. CTP allows client data to be optionally tunneled to
the AC. Under certain network deployments, the policy would be applied at
the AC for Local MAC behavior.


Page 93, Section 11.1.2. Add a bullet worded as follows: "The WTP optionally
may tunnel client data frames to the AC.

Page 94, Section 11.3.1. It would be better to report RSSI and data rate,
instead of RSSI and SNR. This gives an indication of the interference as
well as channel capacity.

Page 95, Section 11.4. It would be better for the WTP to indicate the number
of virtual WLAN's it supports as part of the Discovery process (at the same
time that it gives its radio information).

Page 95, Section 11.5. Could this section be renamed to "Quality of Service
for Control Messages"?

Page 96, Section 11.7.1.1. Is the Session Key information in the Add Mobile
message intended to carry the PMK?

Page 96, Section 11.7.1.1. Why are Capabilities and Supported Rates included
in the Add Mobile message?

Page 96, Section 11.7.1.1. Is all of this information required for Add
Mobile in the local MAC case?

Page 99, Section 11.7.1.1. The "QoS" field provides an interesting mechanism
for doing STA-based prioritization. However strictly speaking, it does not
really need to be part of the protocol.

Page 99, Section 11.7.1.1. Is there any way to provision TSPEC's for the
STA? Or would they be done on the AC?

Page 99, Section 11.7.1.2. I don't understand what this message elementis
used for. There is already a Session Key entry on page 97. Furthermore, what
does "???" refer to? I assume this message would plumb PMK's.

Page 102, Section 11.7.2.1. The statistics element does not include counts
of management messages: Assoc, Auth, Dissassociate, Deauth, etc. We assume
that these message counts would be tracked by the AC. Is that correct? How
would this work in a local MAC case? What about traffic count information in
a local MAC case?

Page 104, Section 11.8.1. The description for Config-Request describes a
message sent from the AC to the WTP. In Section 7.2, the config request is
sent from the AP to the WTP. I would prefer the mechanism described in
11.8.1.
40.	

Page 105, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to add an additional element called
something like "tunnel client traffic" to provision a Local MAC WTP to
tunnel client data back to the AC.

Page 106, Section 11.8.1.1. Practically speaking, it would be very difficult
to maintain a scheduler with different WMM queue properties on the same
radio. Would it be possible to configure WMM queues along with the radio
properties and simply provide an enabled/disabled configuration here?

Page 107, Section 11.8.1.1. The "Broadcast SSID" term is confusing. It
should be renamed to a more common term such as "suppress SSID".

Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly different
behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP. The AC would send a WLAN ID as
part of the Configuration Request and the WTP would respond with the BSSID
that would be used for the WLAN as part of the Configuration Response. In
that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID to WLAN ID mappings.

Page 111, Section 11.9.1. I recommend that the WMM IE goes here. Its really
a radio property given that all WMM-enabled traffic would need to use the
same parameters.

Page 112, Section 11.9.1. If the WTP is responsible for maintaining WLAN ID
to BSSID mappings (see comment 39), then the AC does not have to know the
WLAN ID to BSSID mappings.

Page 121, Section 11.9. Page 124. There were a couple of configuration
elements missed: short/long preamble, 802.11g protection mode, 802.11g mode:
PBCC, OFDM-DSSS. Actually, it would be a good exercise to go through the
current 802.11 MIB and make sure that nothing was missed as part of the
binding.
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From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
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Hi Michael,

I was hoping you could help clarify the difference between 'Fat AP' and
Local MAC.=20

I assume that 'Fat AP' refers to a standalone AP. If so, is your
suggestion to have standalone APs exchange data with an AC?=20

Cheers,

Saravanan


=20

-----Original Message-----
From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:11 PM
To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
Cc: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: Re:[Capwap] RE: Local-MAC & Split-MAC Negotiations

Dear all

For this feature
Section 11.9.12  "IEEE 802.11 WTP Mode and Type"
Can LWAPP redefine the type: (Next LWAPP can extend to manage all types
of AP)
      0 - Split MAC

      1 - Remote MAC

      2 - Local MAC

      3 - Fat AP

Next give comments:=20
  The encapsulated data should be in the form of 802.3 for Fat AP and
Local MAC.  And the encapsulated data should be in the form of 802.11
for Split AP and Remote MAC.

Best regards
Michael





This request is already encompased in tracker entries 3 and 4, which I
have already addressed and sent text earlier this week.
=20
Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20



------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:06 PM
To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
Subject: Local-MAC & Split-MAC Negotiations


Pat,

=20


Issue:

The CAPWAP protocol is expected to support major WTP designs. It is
important for information on these design types to be exchanged during
configuration so that subsequent protocol operations are consistent and
accurate.=20

=20

My recommendation:

To specify WTP characteristics as part of Discovery state
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5. The following message
elements to be included to Discovery Request
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 5.1;

=20

MAC Type - Split-MAC, Local-MAC

MAC Frame Type - Native (IEEE 802.11), IEEE 802.3, No frames (local
bridging)

IEEE 802.11i Design - Encryption & Authenticator on same entity,
Encryption on WTP & Authenticator on AC

=20

=20

=20

Saravanan=20



------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

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=20
=20


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Subject: [Capwap] About dynamic udpating Bootrom and Image data
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Hi:

  Both split MAC and local MAC can be called "Fit AP". Presently, many "Fit AP" devices don't have other manangement method (For example Console, Telnet, and so on).

  Can we add two control message elements which are used for updating Bootrom and Image data, when "Fit AP" is running.

Best regards
Michael

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions regarding LWAPP draft v03
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About point #3.. Section 7.8 still confuses me: the Reset Request =
message is mentionned in this section, so one might think that Clear =
Config Indication is a message element embedded in Reset Request... =
However, Clear Config Indication is a plain control message as stated in =
section 4.2.1.1, and I still can't figure out how it is acknowledged... =
Could you elaborate a little bit more on this one?

Thanks,

Gilles.


-----Message d'origine-----
De : Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 20 janvier 2006 20:35
=C0 : BOURDON Gilles RD-CORE-ISS; capwap@frascone.com
Objet : RE: [Capwap] Questions regarding LWAPP draft v03

1- The Control Message format (section 4.2.1) indicates the message type =
is 8-bit encoded. Don't you think this numbering space could be too =
small, for further extensions? The section might also mention how this =
numbering space is managed (IANA?). Same thing for section 4.2.2.
(Message Element Format), refering to section 16 which is empty.
<PRC> Created tracker entry 44

2- I know that the evaluation team asked for an extension of the Type =
field. It might seem obvious, but I think that having its length equal =
to the Element ID field of the Vendor-Specific element would make sense.
<PRC> This request already exists by the eval team, and has already been =
taken care of.

3- I cannot figure out why Clear Config Indication is the only message =
that doesn't need acknowledgment from the WTP. Any particular reason?
<PRC> Indication messages are acknowledged at the reliable link layer, =
and no response is required.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20
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From: "Fatima Peter" <fatima.peter@u4eatech.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] LWAPP Draft 3, wtpModel & Serial Number 
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All,

 

The length of wtpModel in Section 7.2.4 is specified as 8 bytes. I think
this space could be small for some model types. 

Same way, 24 bytes WTP Serial Number could be small depending upon how
serial number is assigned.

 

 

Thanks & Regards,

 

Fatima

U4EA Technologies



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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>All,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The length of wtpModel in Section 7.2.4 is specified =
as 8
bytes. I think this space could be small for some model types. =
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Same way, 24 bytes WTP Serial Number could be small
depending upon how serial number is assigned.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks &amp; Regards,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>Fatima</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>U4EA Technologies</span></font></p>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] LWAPP Draft 3, wtpModel & Serial Number 
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] LWAPP Draft 3, wtpModel & Serial Number 
Thread-Index: AcYhEJiO6cZjQul5SgScR7LvOdwkCgAAH8Dg
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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Issue 46 created
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Fatima Peter [mailto:fatima.peter@u4eatech.com]=20
	Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:01 AM
	To: capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: [Capwap] LWAPP Draft 3, wtpModel & Serial Number=20
=09
=09

	All,

	=20

	The length of wtpModel in Section 7.2.4 is specified as 8 bytes.
I think this space could be small for some model types.=20

	Same way, 24 bytes WTP Serial Number could be small depending
upon how serial number is assigned.

	=20

	=20

	Thanks & Regards,

	=20

	Fatima

	U4EA Technologies


=09



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<DIV><SPAN class=3D050520718-24012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Issue=20
46 created</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Fatima Peter=20
  [mailto:fatima.peter@u4eatech.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January =
24, 2006=20
  10:01 AM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Capwap] =
LWAPP=20
  Draft 3, wtpModel &amp; Serial Number <BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">All,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The length of wtpModel =
in Section=20
  7.2.4 is specified as 8 bytes. I think this space could be small for =
some=20
  model types. </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Same way, 24 bytes WTP =
Serial=20
  Number could be small depending upon how serial number is=20
  assigned.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks &amp;=20
  Regards,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Fatima</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">U4EA=20
  =
Technologies</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><BR><PRE></PRE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BOD=
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Thread-Topic: About dynamic udpating Bootrom and Image data
Thread-Index: AcYgoonD7a5QWkIPTlurDMof6Vx4eAAb7DvQ
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "zhaoyujin 31390" <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
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The LWAPP protocol already defines a method of downloading firmware on
both Split and Local MAC Aps.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:56 PM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Cc: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: About dynamic udpating Bootrom and Image data
>=20
> Hi:
>=20
>   Both split MAC and local MAC can be called "Fit AP".=20
> Presently, many "Fit AP" devices don't have other manangement=20
> method (For example Console, Telnet, and so on).
>=20
>   Can we add two control message elements which are used for=20
> updating Bootrom and Image data, when "Fit AP" is running.
>=20
> Best regards
> Michael
>=20
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Tue Jan 24 17:19:46 2006
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To: Capwap@frascone.com
From: Philip Rakity <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:19:09 -0800
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Subject: [Capwap] Supported Rates IE
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Question on Supported Rates IE

    Length of Rates:  The length of the supported rates field.

    Supported Rates:  The supported rates to be used with the mobile
       station.


Does this also included the extended rates or only the supported  
rates  or both ?


Philip Rakity
prakity@u4eatech.com

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Tue Jan 24 17:26:44 2006
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From: "Bob O'Hara (boohara)" <boohara@cisco.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] Protocol name
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I have seen only two emails objecting to the use of LWAPP as the name
for the protocol developed by the CAPWAP WG, since the thread was
started last year.  I believe that this indicates the consensus of the
WG is that "LWAPP" is the agreed upon name of the protocol.  Is there
any further disagreement?

 -Bob

Bob O'Hara
Cisco Systems - WNBU

Phone:  +1 408 853 5513
Mobile: +1 408 218 4025
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:30:41 -0500
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Bob O'Hara writes...

> I believe that this indicates the consensus of the
> WG is that "LWAPP" is the agreed upon name of the protocol.

How many affirmative replies were recorded?  As a WG process
observation, I don't believe it is acceptable to judge non-response to
an assertion as consensus support for that assertion.

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name
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As a member of the CAPWAP group, I vote for LWAP.

Sue

-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson, David [mailto:dnelson@enterasys.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:31 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name

Bob O'Hara writes...

> I believe that this indicates the consensus of the
> WG is that "LWAPP" is the agreed upon name of the protocol.

How many affirmative replies were recorded?  As a WG process
observation, I don't believe it is acceptable to judge non-response to
an assertion as consensus support for that assertion.

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Tue Jan 24 18:28:24 2006
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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:27:50 -0700
From: Darren <dplore@gmail.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Additional Comments on LWAPP
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Regarding 5.2.1 AC Address,  I think there could still be use for this
information.  As Philip started to point out, it's possible that an AC
might want to refer a WTP to a different address than the WTP first
discovered.

I suppose there are other ways to direct WTP's to discover alternative
AC's, such as via multiple DNS A records or SRV records.  So perhaps
the AC address is not really needed even for a sort of redirection or
load balancing.

-Darren Loher

On 1/20/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:
> > General Comment:  Radio ID's are limited to be between 0 and
> > 7 inclusive.
> > The definition of Radio ID in the fields should show this
> > limited range -- one byte allocated but only 8 values allowed.
>
> A previous comment of yours caught caused me to catch this one already.
> It will be fixed in the first rev.
>
> >
> > Page 35 -- 5.2.1 AC address
> > I do not understand this.  It is not useful with a layer 3
> > transport.  If using a layer 2 transport then I would assume
> > the broadcast or multicast from the Discovery Message would
> > have been heard by any other AC's -- so rather than respond
> > -- would it not be best to stay silent?
>
> I believe you are correct that this information element is not required
> for layer 3, and can be removed. I've added this to tracker.
>
> >
> > General Comment:  Is there a case where one has a simple
> > discovery agent running in dumb hardware -- its only purpose
> > is to redirect the WTP to the real AC?  There seems to be
> > hints of this possibility but it is not spelled out.
>
> There are many things one can do with the protocol, but I think we
> should leave implementors determine what they can, and cannot, do.
>
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Tue Jan 24 19:15:35 2006
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HI,

I suggest using a name that is free of political baggage
because 
 1) the resulting protocol from the WG process may be
    quite different from the starting point
 2) there may be trademark and other branding issues
 3) this does not seem to be an action to bring
    the WG together to make forward progress.


On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Bob O'Hara (boohara) wrote:
> I have seen only two emails objecting to the use of LWAPP as the name
> for the protocol developed by the CAPWAP WG, since the thread was
> started last year.  I believe that this indicates the consensus of the
> WG is that "LWAPP" is the agreed upon name of the protocol.  Is there
> any further disagreement?
> 
>  -Bob
> 
> Bob O'Hara
> Cisco Systems - WNBU
> 
> Phone:  +1 408 853 5513
> Mobile: +1 408 218 4025
>  

Regards,
/david t. perkins

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HI,

Let's backup here to understand the big picture before specifying
the details.

Currently, the CAPWAP architecture for which the protocol
is being standardized consists of
 1) a collection of WTPs
 2) a single AC
 3) an L2 or L3 interconnection cloud between the WTPs
    and single AC
 4) a protocol between the single AC and each WTP that
    allows the AC to configure(provision), control,
    monitor, and potentially tunnel wireless client
    stattion data frames between an WTP and AC

Thus, there is no concept of multiple ACs such as
for robustness using a "backup AC", or scaling with
load balancing WTPs amoung a set of cooperating ACs.

The LWAPP specification, unfortunately, has impurities that
suggests a richer architecture that contains multiple ACs.

It seems to me that the WG needs to determine the scope
of version 1.0 of the CAPWAP architecture and protocol.
If it is a single AC, then the impurities due to multiple
ACs should be removed. Otherwise, the architecture should
be extended to describe what features are to be addressed
by multiple ACs. Note that even in a single AC architecture,
the protocol must cope with rogue ACs (and WTPs).

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Darren wrote:
> Regarding 5.2.1 AC Address,  I think there could still be use for this
> information.  As Philip started to point out, it's possible that an AC
> might want to refer a WTP to a different address than the WTP first
> discovered.
> 
> I suppose there are other ways to direct WTP's to discover alternative
> AC's, such as via multiple DNS A records or SRV records.  So perhaps
> the AC address is not really needed even for a sort of redirection or
> load balancing.
> 
> -Darren Loher
> 
> On 1/20/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:
> > > General Comment:  Radio ID's are limited to be between 0 and
> > > 7 inclusive.
> > > The definition of Radio ID in the fields should show this
> > > limited range -- one byte allocated but only 8 values allowed.
> >
> > A previous comment of yours caught caused me to catch this one already.
> > It will be fixed in the first rev.
> >
> > >
> > > Page 35 -- 5.2.1 AC address
> > > I do not understand this.  It is not useful with a layer 3
> > > transport.  If using a layer 2 transport then I would assume
> > > the broadcast or multicast from the Discovery Message would
> > > have been heard by any other AC's -- so rather than respond
> > > -- would it not be best to stay silent?
> >
> > I believe you are correct that this information element is not required
> > for layer 3, and can be removed. I've added this to tracker.
> >
> > >
> > > General Comment:  Is there a case where one has a simple
> > > discovery agent running in dumb hardware -- its only purpose
> > > is to redirect the WTP to the real AC?  There seems to be
> > > hints of this possibility but it is not spelled out.
> >
> > There are many things one can do with the protocol, but I think we
> > should leave implementors determine what they can, and cannot, do.
> >
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> > Cisco Systems

Regards,
/david t. perkins

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> Page 8, Figure 1. Figure 1 refers to the LWAPP architecture=20
> for split MAC.
> Rename the figure to "Representative LWAPP Architecture for=20
> Split MAC".
Issue 47, resolved.

>=20
> Page 12, Figure 2. It's possible for the WTP to receiving a=20
> new image while in the RUN state (i.e. image upgrade=20
> "out-of-band"). After the image download is complete and has=20
> been verified, the WTP would reset. Would it be worthwhile to=20
> include this case?
This is an issue that was raised by the eval team, and has already
been resolved.

>=20
> Page 12, Figure 2. If the WTP already knows which AC it wants=20
> to join with, it should be possible to "Join" without doing=20
> "Discovery". It would speed up system recovery.=20
There is nothing in the Discovery that is cached so it is possible,
but I would not necessarily recommend that we make any changes to
the state machine as the Discovery phase does provide a way for
the WTP to decide the best AC to connect to. I feel the benefits would
be small vs. the complexity in the spec.

>=20
> Page 21, Section 3.1. It would be nice to include a "session=20
> identifier" in the transport header. A session identifier=20
> would make it easier to do a lookup on the WTP.
There is a session identifier in the control header, and it is used to
identify the encryption key. However, there is no session identifier
for user data because:
1. In some cases, there is no session (e.g., probe, broadcast)
2. The session is identified via the destination MAC address
3. Any encryption would use the identifiers defined in 802.11i anyways

> Page 24, Section 3.3 and Section 6.1. If you have a bit set=20
> to identify a control message, why do you need 2 UDP ports to=20
> differentiate between control and data messages for the protocol?
Issue 48 created, and this issue is resolved in the next draft.

>=20
> Page 25, Section 3.3.2. You could use SLP for discovery. SLP=20
> describes both a broadcast mechanism and a unicast mechanism=20
> for discovery.
Could you please send proposed text?

>=20
> Page 28, Section 4.2.1. The Session ID field is only included=20
> in the header for Control packets. Why it is not included for=20
> all packets. It's easier to do a table lookup using a Session=20
> ID versus MAC or other data field.
Replicate from above. Rejected for same reason.

>=20
> Page 29, Section 4.2.1.1. Would it make sense to label a=20
> range of message types as "reserved" and/or "vendor specific".
There is already a change request to allow for vendor specific control
messages. I would prefer that we address this request through the same
tracker request 37 (but added your comment to this tracker entry).

>=20
> Page 34, Section 5.1.3. The WTP should indicate whether it is=20
> capable of operating in Local/Split MAC modes. Since the=20
> presence of the Integration function on the WTP is the=20
> requirement for Local MAC, an additional field called=20
> "Bridging Capability" should be added that would be 0 if the=20
> WTP cannot bridge traffic locally (can only operate in split=20
> MAC mode); and 1 if the WTP can bridge traffic and could=20
> operate in either split or local MAC mode.
This is an existing request (tracker entry 3), which I have sent
text to the mailing list about. I would appreciate if you could
provide your comments on the submitted text on whether it addresses
your comment.

>=20
>=20
> Page 34, Section 5.1.3. LWAPP seems to assume that WLAN=20
> radios will support
> 16 BSS's per Radio. It would be better not assume that every=20
> WTP supports 16 radios and add a field to indicate the number=20
> of virtual networks per radio.
At one point, the sheer number of beacons will saturate the air waves,
so we need to pick a maximum. What number do we want? Frankly, 16 seems
like a lot given that we need to transmit a packet every 100ms per
BSS.

Created Issue 50.

>=20
> Page 37, Section 5.2.4 (and Section 5.2.5). The first=20
> paragraph of this section refers to "load". How is it=20
> defined? If it simply refers to the number of WTP's, why call=20
> it load and simply refer to it as the WTP count.
Tracker entry 12 handles this one, and has already been resolved.

>=20
> Page 3, Section 5.3. Why define a separate message for=20
> Primary Discovery?
> Why not simply add an option in the header of the primary=20
> discovery and reduce the number of messages in the protocol?
The idea is for the primary AC to know why it is receiving a Discovery
message, and this is separate from a normal discovery mode. If the AC
wants to allocate resources for WTPs for which it is primary, then
it can do so through this message.

>=20
> Page 42, Section 6.1.4. How does the WTP know its location?=20
> Would this be a GPS sort of thing for outdoors? I would think=20
> that for in-building, it would be better for the AC to tell=20
> the WTP where it is. Moreover, we don't really understand why=20
> the WTP needs to understand its location?
Added tracker entry 51 and resolved by adding the following text
"This information is configurable by the network
 administrator, and allows for the WTP's location to be determined
 through the field."

>=20
> Page 43, Section 6.1.7. In order to maintain uniqueness, it=20
> would be better for the AC to generate the session ID and=20
> transmit it to the WTP. It's easier for the AC to maintain uniqueness.
The text does not state that global uniqueness is required, so I
am not sure why you think this would help.

>=20
> Page 46, Section 6.2.2. The model for sending back status is=20
> good. The definition of the error codes need to be clarified.
I suspect you may have the order of the sections inversed because
6.2.2 is the Status, not the Result Code. Could you clarify
your point?

>=20
> Page 52, Section 6.5. CTP has a similar mechanism for=20
> keep-alive. In the case where the network between the AC and=20
> the WTP is un-reliable, it was necessary to address the case=20
> where a keep-alive message was dropped. CTP allows for a=20
> fixed number of echo messages to be lost before terminating=20
> the session.
Correct, and this is addressed in section 6.6 (Echo Response).

>=20
> Page 66, Section 7.4.11. Why do you need to provide=20
> persistent and non-persistent Blacklist entries? Does this=20
> have to do with the two options for configuration?
Local and Split MAC. For Local MAC, you need to have some way to
permanently store the blacklist entries because you will need
this list to be used even across reboots.

>=20
> Page 67, Section 7.5. Are there any status codes for=20
> Configuration Response?
It simply uses the same values defined in the original Status Code
Section.

>=20
> Page 71, Section 8.3. This command could be combined with the=20
> Change State event. We would assume that system state changes=20
> should be controlled by the AC. That way the AC could reset=20
> the WTP to either the Join or Discovery state.
One disables a radio, while the other resets the AP. These are=20
mutually exclusive, IMHO.

>=20
> Page 91, Section 11.1.2. CTP allows client data to be=20
> optionally tunneled to the AC. Under certain network=20
> deployments, the policy would be applied at the AC for Local=20
> MAC behavior.
This is already in tracker entry 3, and existing text has been submitted
on the list.

>=20
>=20
> Page 93, Section 11.1.2. Add a bullet worded as follows: "The=20
> WTP optionally may tunnel client data frames to the AC.
Tracker entry 52 created, and the issue is resolved by changing the
existing
text to:
   o  The WTP optionally may tunnel client data frames to the AC.  If
      client data frames are locally bridged, the WTP will need to
      provide the necessary encryption and decryption services.

>=20
> Page 94, Section 11.3.1. It would be better to report RSSI=20
> and data rate, instead of RSSI and SNR. This gives an=20
> indication of the interference as well as channel capacity.
I would argue that we probably need all three, but I've created tracker
entry 53 for this

>=20
> Page 95, Section 11.4. It would be better for the WTP to=20
> indicate the number of virtual WLAN's it supports as part of=20
> the Discovery process (at the same time that it gives its=20
> radio information).
Duplicate issue from above, using Tracker 50.

>=20
> Page 95, Section 11.5. Could this section be renamed to=20
> "Quality of Service for Control Messages"?
Tracker entry 54 created, and resolved.

>=20
> Page 96, Section 11.7.1.1. Is the Session Key information in=20
> the Add Mobile message intended to carry the PMK?
Added tracker entry 55, and added the following text:
"For dynamically created keys, this is commonly known
 as a Pairwise Transient Key (PTK)."

>=20
> Page 96, Section 11.7.1.1. Why are Capabilities and Supported=20
> Rates included in the Add Mobile message?
Because they are negotiated on a per user basis. The WTP
advertises in the beacon and probe, but the station will send
its rates (and capabilities) in the association request, so this
allows the AC to send what it had received to the WTP.

>=20
> Page 96, Section 11.7.1.1. Is all of this information=20
> required for Add Mobile in the local MAC case?
Issue 63 created.

>=20
> Page 99, Section 11.7.1.1. The "QoS" field provides an=20
> interesting mechanism for doing STA-based prioritization.=20
> However strictly speaking, it does not really need to be part=20
> of the protocol.
Correct, and I have cleaned that up. Issue 56.

>=20
> Page 99, Section 11.7.1.1. Is there any way to provision=20
> TSPEC's for the STA? Or would they be done on the AC?
Issue 64 created.

The TSPEC is processed on the WTP because with TGw (Management Frame
Protection), the packet will be encrypted between the AC and the STA
when AC encryption is enabled. This means that TCLASS policing and
classification MUST be done in the AC, and therefore the AC MUST add
the proper QoS fields (incl. UP field), and add the appropriate DSCP or
Dot1P field. Note that there is already a way to communicate the desire
to use either DSCP or Dot1P to the WTP in LWAPP.

The major issue, which we've raised before, is that the WTP has no way
to enforce the UP to TCLASS mapping on the upstream packets, and
therefore
it is very easy for a client to blow its reservation, which only the
AC could catch.

>=20
> Page 99, Section 11.7.1.2. I don't understand what this=20
> message elementis used for. There is already a Session Key=20
> entry on page 97. Furthermore, what does "???" refer to? I=20
> assume this message would plumb PMK's.
Tracker entry 57, and the original intention was to split up the
key from the original message element. In the new draft this=20
split is complete, and therefore this ambiguity no longer
exists.

>=20
> Page 102, Section 11.7.2.1. The statistics element does not=20
> include counts of management messages: Assoc, Auth,=20
> Dissassociate, Deauth, etc. We assume that these message=20
> counts would be tracked by the AC. Is that correct? How would=20
> this work in a local MAC case? What about traffic count=20
> information in a local MAC case?
Even in the local MAC case, these messages are forwarded to the AC,
so it can maintain statistics regardless.

>=20
> Page 104, Section 11.8.1. The description for Config-Request=20
> describes a message sent from the AC to the WTP. In Section=20
> 7.2, the config request is sent from the AP to the WTP. I=20
> would prefer the mechanism described in 11.8.1.
> 40.=09

There are two types of configuration messages, one that comes from
the WTP to the AC, and is used for the WTP to update the AC with its
config at boot time. The second allows the AC to push down a new
config to the WTP, and this can occur at run time. The former is
called the Configure Request, while the latter is called the
Configuration
update Request. That said, I think we should come up with a different
set of names to differentiate them better.

Issue 58

>=20
> Page 105, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to add an additional=20
> element called something like "tunnel client traffic" to=20
> provision a Local MAC WTP to tunnel client data back to the AC.
Issue 59.

>=20
> Page 106, Section 11.8.1.1. Practically speaking, it would be=20
> very difficult to maintain a scheduler with different WMM=20
> queue properties on the same radio. Would it be possible to=20
> configure WMM queues along with the radio properties and=20
> simply provide an enabled/disabled configuration here?
I disagree. I believe that this provides the flexibility for
people to create their MACs to support such a differentiation.

>=20
> Page 107, Section 11.8.1.1. The "Broadcast SSID" term is=20
> confusing. It should be renamed to a more common term such as=20
> "suppress SSID".
Tracker 60 and resolved in next draft.

>=20
> Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a=20
> slightly different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.=20
> The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration=20
> Request and the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would=20
> be used for the WLAN as part of the Configuration Response.=20
> In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID to=20
> WLAN ID mappings.
This would complicate how the broadcast/multicast mapping works,
so I'd like to better understand how you would propose to resolve
this issue.

Issue 65 created.

>=20
> Page 111, Section 11.9.1. I recommend that the WMM IE goes=20
> here. Its really a radio property given that all WMM-enabled=20
> traffic would need to use the same parameters.
See my above response

>=20
> Page 112, Section 11.9.1. If the WTP is responsible for=20
> maintaining WLAN ID to BSSID mappings (see comment 39), then=20
> the AC does not have to know the WLAN ID to BSSID mappings.
Which creates additional issues in terms of broadcast mapping because
the AC does need this info. Added entry 61

>=20
> Page 121, Section 11.9. Page 124. There were a couple of=20
> configuration elements missed: short/long preamble, 802.11g=20
> protection mode, 802.11g mode:
> PBCC, OFDM-DSSS. Actually, it would be a good exercise to go=20
> through the current 802.11 MIB and make sure that nothing was=20
> missed as part of the binding.

Added Tracker 62, and I will look into this one.
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:44:19 +0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Protocol name
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From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
To: "Bob O'Hara (boohara)" <boohara@cisco.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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I think a vendor-neutral name for the protocol would be better. It would
be more acceptable this way.

Plus, the protocol no longer deals with "light-weight" APs alone.=20

Saravanan



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:26 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Protocol name

I have seen only two emails objecting to the use of LWAPP as the name
for the protocol developed by the CAPWAP WG, since the thread was
started last year.  I believe that this indicates the consensus of the
WG is that "LWAPP" is the agreed upon name of the protocol.  Is there
any further disagreement?

 -Bob

Bob O'Hara
Cisco Systems - WNBU

Phone:  +1 408 853 5513
Mobile: +1 408 218 4025
=20
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What is the definition of this field in the WTP Descriptor?

regards,

Philip Rakity
prakity@u4eatech.com



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--------=2931749793--





From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Jan 25 08:02:33 2006
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To: "Nancy Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>,
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Just a reminder, so we can keep this discussion moving....

Sue Harris wrote:

>  Scott:
> 
> I would like to forward concerns about DTLS draft 2. 
> I will send them by Monday.  
> 
> Sue Hares

Nancy Winget (ncamwing) wrote:
> Scott,
> 
> I will provide some comments by next week.
> 
> 	Nancy.

Scott Kelly wrote:
> 
> The eval team recommended that DTLS be used to secure the CAPWAP
> protocol, and several others have been suggesting this same thing for
> some time now. Two revisions of a draft explaining how to do this have
> been published - the first elicited a few minor comments, and the second
> (modified to reflect those comments) has drawn no fire.
> 
> Are we done with this discussion? If so, let's get DTLS incorporated
> into the next rev of the draft. 
> If not, let's hear why not.
> 
> --Scott
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Jan 25 11:13:08 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:47:41 -0700
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Protocol name
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From: "Mani, Mahalingam (Mani)" <mmani@avaya.com>
To: "Bob O'Hara (boohara)" <boohara@cisco.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Bob,

The protocol name has come up
a. on the one hand we hear some wanting to go with the baseline
protocol's name (LWAPP) and
b. on the other hand some others leaning towards naming the protocol to
reflect close to the identity of the WG:

1.	contribution and analysis of the CAPWAP protocol objectives and
evaluation leading to ensuing recommended changes to its features
2.	name distinct from LWAPP would better distinguish the CAPWAP
standard from the baseline (or prior ones already in the market)
3.	The need to distinguish this protocol standard-to-be from what
is already discussed in context of the selected baseline protocol and
used in the market.
4. To eliminate confusion this has to do with light-weight APs only -
and what that means by now.

Here's what is proposed:

The protocol going forward will go under the name of CAPWAP for the
upcoming revision. If we find the WG coming up with any other
appropriate name later we may revisit. However, we would not encourage
lingering on naming too long.

That said, there will not be any contest or 'voting' to start another
protracted distraction.

To acknowledge history of the baseline protocol chosen (LWAPP) name is
in the evaluation draft and may optionally be noted on that in the
protocol draft as well.

-mani
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:26 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Protocol name

I have seen only two emails objecting to the use of LWAPP as the name
for the protocol developed by the CAPWAP WG, since the thread was
started last year.  I believe that this indicates the consensus of the
WG is that "LWAPP" is the agreed upon name of the protocol.  Is there
any further disagreement?

 -Bob

Bob O'Hara
Cisco Systems - WNBU

Phone:  +1 408 853 5513
Mobile: +1 408 218 4025
=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name
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From: "Sadot, Emek (Emek)" <esadot@avaya.com>
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Respectfully I think that an IETF working group shall come up with a
protocol name that reflects the entire working group consensus, as
opposed to be associated with a specific vendor. Furthermore, I believe
that naming the protocol LWAPP will incur confusion in the market place
w.r.t. protocol being the IETF standard or vendor-specific version.

Regards,
Emek

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:26 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Protocol name

I have seen only two emails objecting to the use of LWAPP as the name
for the protocol developed by the CAPWAP WG, since the thread was
started last year.  I believe that this indicates the consensus of the
WG is that "LWAPP" is the agreed upon name of the protocol.  Is there
any further disagreement?

 -Bob

Bob O'Hara
Cisco Systems - WNBU

Phone:  +1 408 853 5513
Mobile: +1 408 218 4025
=20
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Subject: Re: [Capwap] Protocol name
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Mani,

This sounds like an excellent plan.

            jak

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mani, Mahalingam (Mani)" <mmani@avaya.com>
To: "Bob O'Hara (boohara)" <boohara@cisco.com>; <capwap@frascone.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 7:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name


Bob,

The protocol name has come up
a. on the one hand we hear some wanting to go with the baseline
protocol's name (LWAPP) and
b. on the other hand some others leaning towards naming the protocol to
reflect close to the identity of the WG:

1. contribution and analysis of the CAPWAP protocol objectives and
evaluation leading to ensuing recommended changes to its features
2. name distinct from LWAPP would better distinguish the CAPWAP
standard from the baseline (or prior ones already in the market)
3. The need to distinguish this protocol standard-to-be from what
is already discussed in context of the selected baseline protocol and
used in the market.
4. To eliminate confusion this has to do with light-weight APs only -
and what that means by now.

Here's what is proposed:

The protocol going forward will go under the name of CAPWAP for the
upcoming revision. If we find the WG coming up with any other
appropriate name later we may revisit. However, we would not encourage
lingering on naming too long.

That said, there will not be any contest or 'voting' to start another
protracted distraction.

To acknowledge history of the baseline protocol chosen (LWAPP) name is
in the evaluation draft and may optionally be noted on that in the
protocol draft as well.

-mani
======
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@cisco.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:26 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Protocol name

I have seen only two emails objecting to the use of LWAPP as the name
for the protocol developed by the CAPWAP WG, since the thread was
started last year.  I believe that this indicates the consensus of the
WG is that "LWAPP" is the agreed upon name of the protocol.  Is there
any further disagreement?

 -Bob

Bob O'Hara
Cisco Systems - WNBU

Phone:  +1 408 853 5513
Mobile: +1 408 218 4025
 
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Jan 25 12:35:50 2006
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Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:35:11 -0700
From: Darren <dplore@gmail.com>
To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
Subject: Multiple/Redundant AC's (was: Re: [Capwap] Additional Comments on
	LWAPP)
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David,

I am in support for removing the AC address information element.

Regarding the big picture of multiple AC's, I agree with you that this
is a scope question.  Should this be a requirement or not?

>From my experience working with large customer deployments, it is a
common requirement that there is some ability to utilize multiple
AC's.  First they want some kind of redundancy and second there is
load balancing.  I have worked with several real campus deployments
where there are over 500 WTP's (some with 1,000's of WTP's and
growing).  These environments are deployed in a design that is very
much like a Local-MAC with 802.3 backhaul to an "AC-like" device.=20
Multiple AC-like devices are already in these networks.  Mitigating
the AC as a single point of failure is a requirement for them.  Load
balancing of AC's (as cool as I think this is) is only a requirement
for the largest of WLAN's I've seen and is merely nice to have for
almost everyone else.

So I think it's very important to have this problem solved one way or
another.  There should be one solution and it should be multi-vendor
WTP <-> AC interoperable.

LWAPP/CAPWAP will work without explicit support for this and there can
be proprietary extensions (as suggested in LWAPP 3.3.2) to solve the
problem.  But those will not likely be plug-and-play interoperable.

Is there any support for making support multiple AC discovery mandatory?

-Darren Loher


On 1/24/06, David T. Perkins <dperkins@dsperkins.com> wrote:
> HI,
>
> Let's backup here to understand the big picture before specifying
> the details.
>
> Currently, the CAPWAP architecture for which the protocol
> is being standardized consists of
>  1) a collection of WTPs
>  2) a single AC
>  3) an L2 or L3 interconnection cloud between the WTPs
>     and single AC
>  4) a protocol between the single AC and each WTP that
>     allows the AC to configure(provision), control,
>     monitor, and potentially tunnel wireless client
>     stattion data frames between an WTP and AC
>
> Thus, there is no concept of multiple ACs such as
> for robustness using a "backup AC", or scaling with
> load balancing WTPs amoung a set of cooperating ACs.
>
> The LWAPP specification, unfortunately, has impurities that
> suggests a richer architecture that contains multiple ACs.
>
> It seems to me that the WG needs to determine the scope
> of version 1.0 of the CAPWAP architecture and protocol.
> If it is a single AC, then the impurities due to multiple
> ACs should be removed. Otherwise, the architecture should
> be extended to describe what features are to be addressed
> by multiple ACs. Note that even in a single AC architecture,
> the protocol must cope with rogue ACs (and WTPs).
>
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Darren wrote:
> > Regarding 5.2.1 AC Address,  I think there could still be use for this
> > information.  As Philip started to point out, it's possible that an AC
> > might want to refer a WTP to a different address than the WTP first
> > discovered.
> >
> > I suppose there are other ways to direct WTP's to discover alternative
> > AC's, such as via multiple DNS A records or SRV records.  So perhaps
> > the AC address is not really needed even for a sort of redirection or
> > load balancing.
> >
> > -Darren Loher
> >
> > On 1/20/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:
> > > > General Comment:  Radio ID's are limited to be between 0 and
> > > > 7 inclusive.
> > > > The definition of Radio ID in the fields should show this
> > > > limited range -- one byte allocated but only 8 values allowed.
> > >
> > > A previous comment of yours caught caused me to catch this one alread=
y.
> > > It will be fixed in the first rev.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Page 35 -- 5.2.1 AC address
> > > > I do not understand this.  It is not useful with a layer 3
> > > > transport.  If using a layer 2 transport then I would assume
> > > > the broadcast or multicast from the Discovery Message would
> > > > have been heard by any other AC's -- so rather than respond
> > > > -- would it not be best to stay silent?
> > >
> > > I believe you are correct that this information element is not requir=
ed
> > > for layer 3, and can be removed. I've added this to tracker.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > General Comment:  Is there a case where one has a simple
> > > > discovery agent running in dumb hardware -- its only purpose
> > > > is to redirect the WTP to the real AC?  There seems to be
> > > > hints of this possibility but it is not spelled out.
> > >
> > > There are many things one can do with the protocol, but I think we
> > > should leave implementors determine what they can, and cannot, do.
> > >
> > > Pat Calhoun
> > > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> > > Cisco Systems
>
> Regards,
> /david t. perkins
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: Darren <dplore@gmail.com>, "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
Subject: RE: Multiple/Redundant AC's (was: Re: [Capwap] Additional Comment
	s on LWAPP)
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My personal opinion on this one is that we have enough issues to resolve
with the AP-WTP protocol definition. I think AC-AC communications is
important. However I think we should table that issue for now.

Cheers,

	Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren [mailto:dplore@gmail.com] 
> Sent: January 25, 2006 12:35 PM
> To: David T. Perkins
> Cc: Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Multiple/Redundant AC's (was: Re: [Capwap] 
> Additional Comments on LWAPP)
> 
> David,
> 
> I am in support for removing the AC address information element.
> 
> Regarding the big picture of multiple AC's, I agree with you 
> that this is a scope question.  Should this be a requirement or not?
> 
> >From my experience working with large customer deployments, it is a
> common requirement that there is some ability to utilize 
> multiple AC's.  First they want some kind of redundancy and 
> second there is load balancing.  I have worked with several 
> real campus deployments where there are over 500 WTP's (some 
> with 1,000's of WTP's and growing).  These environments are 
> deployed in a design that is very much like a Local-MAC with 
> 802.3 backhaul to an "AC-like" device. 
> Multiple AC-like devices are already in these networks.  
> Mitigating the AC as a single point of failure is a 
> requirement for them.  Load balancing of AC's (as cool as I 
> think this is) is only a requirement for the largest of 
> WLAN's I've seen and is merely nice to have for almost everyone else.
> 
> So I think it's very important to have this problem solved 
> one way or another.  There should be one solution and it 
> should be multi-vendor WTP <-> AC interoperable.
> 
> LWAPP/CAPWAP will work without explicit support for this and 
> there can be proprietary extensions (as suggested in LWAPP 
> 3.3.2) to solve the problem.  But those will not likely be 
> plug-and-play interoperable.
> 
> Is there any support for making support multiple AC discovery 
> mandatory?
> 
> -Darren Loher
> 
> 
> On 1/24/06, David T. Perkins <dperkins@dsperkins.com> wrote:
> > HI,
> >
> > Let's backup here to understand the big picture before 
> specifying the 
> > details.
> >
> > Currently, the CAPWAP architecture for which the protocol is being 
> > standardized consists of
> >  1) a collection of WTPs
> >  2) a single AC
> >  3) an L2 or L3 interconnection cloud between the WTPs
> >     and single AC
> >  4) a protocol between the single AC and each WTP that
> >     allows the AC to configure(provision), control,
> >     monitor, and potentially tunnel wireless client
> >     stattion data frames between an WTP and AC
> >
> > Thus, there is no concept of multiple ACs such as for 
> robustness using 
> > a "backup AC", or scaling with load balancing WTPs amoung a set of 
> > cooperating ACs.
> >
> > The LWAPP specification, unfortunately, has impurities that 
> suggests a 
> > richer architecture that contains multiple ACs.
> >
> > It seems to me that the WG needs to determine the scope of 
> version 1.0 
> > of the CAPWAP architecture and protocol.
> > If it is a single AC, then the impurities due to multiple 
> ACs should 
> > be removed. Otherwise, the architecture should be extended 
> to describe 
> > what features are to be addressed by multiple ACs. Note 
> that even in a 
> > single AC architecture, the protocol must cope with rogue ACs (and 
> > WTPs).
> >
> > On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Darren wrote:
> > > Regarding 5.2.1 AC Address,  I think there could still be use for 
> > > this information.  As Philip started to point out, it's possible 
> > > that an AC might want to refer a WTP to a different 
> address than the 
> > > WTP first discovered.
> > >
> > > I suppose there are other ways to direct WTP's to discover 
> > > alternative AC's, such as via multiple DNS A records or 
> SRV records.  
> > > So perhaps the AC address is not really needed even for a sort of 
> > > redirection or load balancing.
> > >
> > > -Darren Loher
> > >
> > > On 1/20/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:
> > > > > General Comment:  Radio ID's are limited to be between 0 and
> > > > > 7 inclusive.
> > > > > The definition of Radio ID in the fields should show this 
> > > > > limited range -- one byte allocated but only 8 values allowed.
> > > >
> > > > A previous comment of yours caught caused me to catch 
> this one already.
> > > > It will be fixed in the first rev.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Page 35 -- 5.2.1 AC address
> > > > > I do not understand this.  It is not useful with a layer 3 
> > > > > transport.  If using a layer 2 transport then I would 
> assume the 
> > > > > broadcast or multicast from the Discovery Message would have 
> > > > > been heard by any other AC's -- so rather than respond
> > > > > -- would it not be best to stay silent?
> > > >
> > > > I believe you are correct that this information element is not 
> > > > required for layer 3, and can be removed. I've added 
> this to tracker.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > General Comment:  Is there a case where one has a simple 
> > > > > discovery agent running in dumb hardware -- its only 
> purpose is 
> > > > > to redirect the WTP to the real AC?  There seems to 
> be hints of 
> > > > > this possibility but it is not spelled out.
> > > >
> > > > There are many things one can do with the protocol, but 
> I think we 
> > > > should leave implementors determine what they can, and 
> cannot, do.
> > > >
> > > > Pat Calhoun
> > > > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >
> > Regards,
> > /david t. perkins
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
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Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:41:37 -0700
From: Darren <dplore@gmail.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
In-Reply-To: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A201438150@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
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I also support focusing monitoring and statistics efforts via the CAPWAP
MIB.

The base draft should maintain focus on configuration and control.

-Darren Loher

On 1/23/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Dan is correct. The WG has already stated that we would create a CAPWAP
> MIB. Therefore, I don't think that adding a tracker entry is in order giv=
en
> that I am using tracker for the base draft.
>
>
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Romascanu, Dan (Dan) [mailto:dromasca@avaya.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, January 23, 2006 6:12 AM
> *To:* Richard Gwee; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
> *Subject:* RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
>
>  *In other words, are you talking about defining a MIB? A SMIv2 definitio=
n
> of the management objects (for 'monitoring purposes, security purposes,
> congestion control, feedback etc') could be used either in-band with CAPW=
AP
> or out-of-band with SNMP.*
> **
> *I would like to observe that the WG has a chartered item for the
> definition of a MIB module. It should go to WGLC this month actually. The
> chairs would probably ask for a time extension. *
> **
> *Regards,*
> **
> *Dan*
> **
>
>
> **
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]
> *Sent:* Monday, January 23, 2006 3:55 PM
> *To:* Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
> *Subject:* RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
>
>  Hi Pat,
>
>
>
> I am sorry over the confusion. In this case, can you create an issue
> thread?
>
>
>
> Issue: There exists a need for the CAPWAP protocol to define its own
> current statistics and configuration items. It will be good if the
> definition of such items can be explicitly stated at a sufficient level.
> Functionalities for the use of such items should be considered such as Qo=
S
> monitoring, security purposes, congestion control, feedback for example. =
To
> a certain extent, this can help to improve the performance of the CAPWAP
> protocol.
>
>
>
> Recommendation: To include definition of the protocol's own definition of
> configuration and statistics items. To also include the purpose of these
> items in the area of monitoring purposes, security purposes, congestion
> control, feedback etc.
>
>
>
> Thanks and regards
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:38 AM
> *To:* Richard Gwee; capwap@frascone.com
> *Subject:* RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
>
>
>
> Richard,
>
>
>
> Sorry, you've lost me, but the original request was to provide a pointer
> of some form to the IEEE MIB variables.
>
>
>
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:11 PM
> *To:* Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
> *Subject:* [Capwap] Addition to MIB issue
>
> Hi Pat,
>
>
>
> I refer to the issue on "Using MIB variable names instead" on the issue
> tracker. In addition to using MIBs, there is also a need for the protocol=
 to
> define its own statistics and configuration items. Such items can be used
> for functionalities that include congestion monitoring, feedback etc.
>
>
>
> Thus I will like to recommend to include the definition of the protocol's
> own statistics and configuration items and that one of these statistics
> items to be used for congestion control and feedback.
>
>
>
> Thanks and regards
>
> Richard
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:57 AM
> *To:* capwap@frascone.com
> *Subject:* [Capwap] Done w/ Issue Tracker
>
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> I believe that I've entered all entries posted to the list after November
> 1st. If you have any change requests on the list prior to that date, plea=
se
> forward them to me.
>
>
>
> The issue tracker can be found at www.capwap.org. Please note that if you
> search with no filters, you will find both open and resolved bugs. A norm=
al
> "Show All" does not display the resolved issues.
>
>
>
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> Republic Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922
> . www.rp.sg . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .
> * From March 2006, we will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands
> Avenue 9, Singapore 738964.*
>
> *Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully
> adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to stri=
ve
> towards best practices and maintain excellence in service standards with =
the
> following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class (SIC), Singapore
> Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001
> and OHSAS 18001)*
>  ------------------------------
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of the
> individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information tha=
t
> is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are n=
ot
> the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy th=
is
> communication. If you have received this communication in error, please
> notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Th=
ank
> you.
>
>
>
>

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I also support focusing monitoring and statistics efforts via the CAPWAP MI=
B.<br><br>The base draft should maintain focus on configuration and control=
.<br><br>-Darren Loher<br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 1/23/06,=
=20
<b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:pcalhoun@cisco.com">pcalhoun@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); =
margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">







<div><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Dan is=20
correct. The WG has already stated that we would create a CAPWAP MIB. There=
fore,=20
I don't think that adding a tracker entry is in order given that I am using=
=20
tracker for the base draft.</font></span></div><span class=3D"q">
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2">Pat Calhoun<br>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<br>Cisco Systems</font></p>
<div>&nbsp;</div><br>
</span><blockquote dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 25=
5); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
  <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left" lang=3D"en-us">
  <hr>
  <font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> Romascanu, Dan (Dan)=20
  [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dromasca@avaya.com" target=3D"_blank" onclick=
=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">dromasca@avaya.com</a>] <=
br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 23, 2006 6:12=20
  AM<br><b>To:</b> Richard Gwee; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
  <a href=3D"mailto:capwap@frascone.com" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"retur=
n top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">capwap@frascone.com</a></font><div=
><span class=3D"e" id=3D"q_108f7cfc0871b4eb_3"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=
=3D"2"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB=20
  issue<br></font></span></div><br></div><div><span class=3D"e" id=3D"q_108=
f7cfc0871b4eb_5">
  <div></div>
  <div><span><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><font color=3D"#0000ff"><stron=
g><em>In other words,&nbsp;are you&nbsp;talking about=20
  defining a MIB? A SMIv2 definition of the management objects (for 'monito=
ring=20
  purposes, security purposes, congestion control, feedback etc') could be =
used=20
  either in-band with CAPWAP or out-of-band with=20
  SNMP.</em></strong></font></font></span></div>
  <div><span><strong><em><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">=
</font></em></strong></span>&nbsp;</div>
  <div><span><strong><em><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">=
I would like to observe that the WG has a chartered item for the=20
  definition of a MIB module. It should go to WGLC this month actually. The=
=20
  chairs would probably ask for a time extension.=20
  </font></em></strong></span></div>
  <div><span><strong><em><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">=
</font></em></strong></span>&nbsp;</div>
  <div><span><strong><em><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">=
Regards,</font></em></strong></span></div>
  <div><span><strong><em><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">=
</font></em></strong></span>&nbsp;</div>
  <div><span><strong><em><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">=
Dan</font></em></strong></span></div>
  <div><span><strong><em><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">=
</font></em></strong></span>&nbsp;</div>
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
  <div><strong><em><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"></font=
></em></strong>&nbsp;</div><br>
  <blockquote dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); p=
adding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
    <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left" lang=3D"en-us">
    <hr>
    <font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> Richard Gwee=20
    [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg" target=3D"_blank" onclick=
=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">richard_gwee@rp.sg</a>] <=
br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 23, 2006 3:55=20
    PM<br><b>To:</b> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
    <a href=3D"mailto:capwap@frascone.com" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"ret=
urn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">capwap@frascone.com</a><br><b>Su=
bject:</b> RE: [Capwap] Addition to MIB=20
    issue<br></font><br></div>
    <div></div>
    <div>
    <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Hi=20
    Pat,</span></font></p>
    <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p>
    <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">I am sorry over the=20
    confusion. In this case, can you create an issue thread?</span></font><=
/p>
    <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p>
    <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Issue: There exists=20
    a need for the CAPWAP protocol to define its own current statistics and=
=20
    configuration items. It will be good if the definition of such items ca=
n be=20
    explicitly stated at a sufficient level. Functionalities for the use of=
 such=20
    items should be considered such as QoS monitoring, security purposes,=
=20
    congestion control, feedback for example. To a certain extent, this can=
 help=20
    to improve the performance of the CAPWAP protocol.</span></font></p>
    <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p>
    <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Recommendation: To=20
    include definition of the protocol's own definition of configuration an=
d=20
    statistics items. To also include the purpose of these items in the are=
a of=20
    monitoring purposes, security purposes, congestion control, feedback=20
    etc.</span></font></p>
    <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p>
    <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Thanks and=20
    regards</span></font></p>
    <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Richard</span></font></p>
    <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></fon=
t></p>
    <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p>
    <div>
    <div style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><font face=3D"Times=
 New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">
    <hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2">
    </span></font></div>
    <p><b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-weight: bold=
; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">From:</span></font></b><font face=
=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;=
"> Pat=20
    Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">pcalho=
un@cisco.com</a>] <br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b=
> Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:38=20
    AM<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Richard Gwee=
;=20
    <a href=3D"mailto:capwap@frascone.com" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"ret=
urn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">capwap@frascone.com</a><br><b><s=
pan style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: [Capwap] Addition =
to MIB=20
    issue</span></font></p></div>
    <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: =
12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p>
    <div>
    <p><font color=3D"blue" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: blue; font-family: Arial;">Richard,</span></font></p></di=
v>
    <div>
    <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: =
12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p></div>
    <div>
    <p><font color=3D"blue" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: blue; font-family: Arial;">Sorry, you've lost=20
    me, but the original request was to provide a pointer of some form to t=
he=20
    IEEE MIB variables.</span></font></p></div>
    <div>
    <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: =
12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p></div>
    <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">Pat=20
    Calhoun<br>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<br>Cisco=20
    Systems</span></font></p>
    <div>
    <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: =
12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p></div>
    <blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-color: =
-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-wi=
dth: medium medium medium 1.5pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; padding: 0in 0=
in 0in 4pt;">

      <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p>
      <div style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><font face=3D"Tim=
es New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">
      <hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2">
      </span></font></div>
      <p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"=
><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">F=
rom:</span></font></b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-=
size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
=20
      Richard Gwee [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg" target=3D"=
_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">richard_gw=
ee@rp.sg</a>] <br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Th=
ursday, January 19, 2006 8:11=20
      PM<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Pat Calhou=
n=20
      (pacalhou); <a href=3D"mailto:capwap@frascone.com" target=3D"_blank" =
onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">capwap@frascone.co=
m</a><br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Capwap]=
 Addition to MIB=20
      issue</span></font></p>
      <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Hi=20
      Pat,</span></font></p>
      <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p>
      <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">I refer to the=20
      issue on "Using MIB variable names instead" on the issue tracker. In=
=20
      addition to using MIBs, there is also a need for the protocol to defi=
ne=20
      its own statistics and configuration items. Such items can be used fo=
r=20
      functionalities that include congestion monitoring, feedback=20
      etc.</span></font></p>
      <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p>
      <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Thus I will like=20
      to recommend to include the definition of the protocol's own statisti=
cs=20
      and configuration items and that one of these statistics items to be =
used=20
      for congestion control and feedback.</span></font></p>
      <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p>
      <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Thanks and=20
      regards</span></font></p>
      <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Richard</span></font></p>
      <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p>
      <div>
      <div style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><font face=3D"Tim=
es New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">
      <hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2">
      </span></font></div>
      <p><b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-weight: bo=
ld; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">From:</span></font></b><font fac=
e=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma=
;"> Pat=20
      Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">pcal=
houn@cisco.com</a>] <br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span><=
/b>
 Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:57=20
      AM<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>=20
      <a href=3D"mailto:capwap@frascone.com" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"r=
eturn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">capwap@frascone.com</a><br><b>=
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Capwap] Done w/ Iss=
ue=20
      Tracker</span></font></p></div>
      <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p>
      <div>
      <p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; fo=
nt-family: Arial;">All,</span></font></p></div>
      <div>
      <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p></div>
      <div>
      <p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; fo=
nt-family: Arial;">I believe that I've entered=20
      all entries posted to the list after November 1st. If you have any ch=
ange=20
      requests on the list prior to that date, please forward them to=20
      me.</span></font></p></div>
      <div>
      <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p></div>
      <div>
      <p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; fo=
nt-family: Arial;">The issue tracker can be found=20
      at <a href=3D"http://www.capwap.org" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"ret=
urn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">www.capwap.org</a>. Please note =
that if=20
      you search with no filters, you will find both open and resolved bugs=
. A=20
      normal &quot;Show All&quot; does not display the resolved=20
      issues.</span></font></p></div>
      <div>
      <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p></div>
      <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 10pt;">Pat=20
      Calhoun<br>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit<br>Cisco=20
      Systems</span></font></p>
      <div>
      <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p></div>
      <div style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><font color=3D"bl=
ack" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; co=
lor: black;">
      <hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2">
      </span></font></div>
      <div align=3D"center">
      <table style=3D"width: 100%;" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D=
"100%">
        <tbody>
        <tr>
          <td style=3D"padding: 0.75pt; width: 100%;" width=3D"100%">
            <p style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><font face=3D=
"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">R=
epublic=20
            Polytechnic, Tanglin Campus, 1 Kay Siang Road, Singapore 248922=
<br>.=20
            </span></font><a title=3D"http://www.rp.edu.sg/" href=3D"http:/=
/www.rp.sg" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,e=
vent,this)"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt=
; font-family: Tahoma;">
www.rp.sg</span></font></a><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"=
font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20
            <br><em><i><font face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-family: Ta=
homa;">&nbsp;From&nbsp;<u>March 2006</u>, we=20
            will be located in our new home at 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, Singap=
ore=20
            738964.</span></font></i></em></span></font></p></td></tr>
        <tr>
          <td style=3D"padding: 0.75pt;">
            <p style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><i><font face=
=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"1"><span style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; font-style: italic;=
 font-family: Tahoma;">Republic=20
            Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully ad=
opt=20
            the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to=
=20
            strive towards best practices and maintain excellence in servic=
e=20
            standards with the following certifications: Singapore Innovati=
on=20
            Class (SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People Developer=20
            Standards and QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS=20
            18001)</span></font></i></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div>
      <div style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><font color=3D"bl=
ue" face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: blue;=
 font-family: Tahoma;">
      <hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2">
      </span></font></div>
      <div align=3D"center">
      <table style=3D"width: 100%;" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D=
"100%">
        <tbody>
        <tr>
          <td style=3D"padding: 0.75pt; width: 100%;" width=3D"100%">
            <p><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"1"><span style=3D"font-size: 7=
.5pt; font-family: Tahoma;">CONFIDENTIALITY=20
            CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of the indiv=
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      </span></font></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div>
      <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt;"></span></font>&nbsp;</p></blockquote></div></blockquote></span></d=
iv></blockquote>

</blockquote></div><br>

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Jan 25 12:59:58 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:59:23 -0800
Message-ID: <F07F17B61B7FF545BC7D7E4BFBE15D2A0159712A@hadron.jnpr.net>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Protocol name
Thread-Index: AcYhNStKyjDCz9CCTWGnJWfheLPRRQAk386QAAP8g8A=
From: "Changming Liu" <cliu@juniper.net>
To: "Sadot, Emek (Emek)" <esadot@avaya.com>,
        "Bob O'Hara (boohara)" <boohara@cisco.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Can we learn something from VRRP group? HSRP vs VRRP? VRRP is the
protocol name, same as the working group's name. HSRP becomes a
different spec.=20

Changming

-----Original Message-----
From: Sadot, Emek (Emek) [mailto:esadot@avaya.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:18 AM
To: Bob O'Hara (boohara); capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name

Respectfully I think that an IETF working group shall come up with a
protocol name that reflects the entire working group consensus, as
opposed to be associated with a specific vendor. Furthermore, I believe
that naming the protocol LWAPP will incur confusion in the market place
w.r.t. protocol being the IETF standard or vendor-specific version.

Regards,
Emek

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:26 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Protocol name

I have seen only two emails objecting to the use of LWAPP as the name
for the protocol developed by the CAPWAP WG, since the thread was
started last year.  I believe that this indicates the consensus of the
WG is that "LWAPP" is the agreed upon name of the protocol.  Is there
any further disagreement?

 -Bob

Bob O'Hara
Cisco Systems - WNBU

Phone:  +1 408 853 5513
Mobile: +1 408 218 4025
=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:02:53 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Protocol name
Thread-Index: AcYhNStKyjDCz9CCTWGnJWfheLPRRQAk386QAAP8g8AAADUHgA==
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Changming Liu" <cliu@juniper.net>,
        "Sadot, Emek (Emek)" <esadot@avaya.com>,
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But there are probably an equal number of examples that contradict
your example, but yes, that is one option.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Changming Liu [mailto:cliu@juniper.net]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 9:59 AM
> To: Sadot, Emek (Emek); Bob O'Hara (boohara); capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name
>=20
> Can we learn something from VRRP group? HSRP vs VRRP? VRRP is=20
> the protocol name, same as the working group's name. HSRP=20
> becomes a different spec.=20
>=20
> Changming
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sadot, Emek (Emek) [mailto:esadot@avaya.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:18 AM
> To: Bob O'Hara (boohara); capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name
>=20
> Respectfully I think that an IETF working group shall come up=20
> with a protocol name that reflects the entire working group=20
> consensus, as opposed to be associated with a specific=20
> vendor. Furthermore, I believe that naming the protocol LWAPP=20
> will incur confusion in the market place w.r.t. protocol=20
> being the IETF standard or vendor-specific version.
>=20
> Regards,
> Emek
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@cisco.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:26 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Protocol name
>=20
> I have seen only two emails objecting to the use of LWAPP as=20
> the name for the protocol developed by the CAPWAP WG, since=20
> the thread was started last year.  I believe that this=20
> indicates the consensus of the WG is that "LWAPP" is the=20
> agreed upon name of the protocol.  Is there any further disagreement?
>=20
>  -Bob
>=20
> Bob O'Hara
> Cisco Systems - WNBU
>=20
> Phone:  +1 408 853 5513
> Mobile: +1 408 218 4025
> =20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
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Scott:

Thanks for the query.=20

1st - my name is Susan Hares [Not Harris - Susan is a friend]

2nd - I am trying to meet with Nancy to make sure we've covered our
concerns.
	We hope to discuss our concerns this week and send out the data.

Sue

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott G Kelly [mailto:scott@hyperthought.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:02 AM
To: Nancy Winget (ncamwing); Susan Hares
Cc: capwap
Subject: Re: [Capwap] DTLS

Just a reminder, so we can keep this discussion moving....

Sue Harris wrote:

>  Scott:
>=20
> I would like to forward concerns about DTLS draft 2.=20
> I will send them by Monday. =20
>=20
> Sue Hares

Nancy Winget (ncamwing) wrote:
> Scott,
>=20
> I will provide some comments by next week.
>=20
> 	Nancy.

Scott Kelly wrote:
>=20
> The eval team recommended that DTLS be used to secure the CAPWAP
> protocol, and several others have been suggesting this same thing for
> some time now. Two revisions of a draft explaining how to do this have
> been published - the first elicited a few minor comments, and the
second
> (modified to reflect those comments) has drawn no fire.
>=20
> Are we done with this discussion? If so, let's get DTLS incorporated
> into the next rev of the draft.=20
> If not, let's hear why not.
>=20
> --Scott
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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>=20
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>=20




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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:07:38 -0800
Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A2014A253F@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Protocol name
Thread-Index: AcYhNStKyjDCz9CCTWGnJWfheLPRRQAinLjQAArWMWA=
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Mani, Mahalingam (Mani)" <mmani@avaya.com>,
        "Bob O'Hara (boohara)" <boohara@cisco.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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I've created entry 67 to track this request

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mani, Mahalingam (Mani) [mailto:mmani@avaya.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 7:48 AM
> To: Bob O'Hara (boohara); capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Protocol name
>=20
> Bob,
>=20
> The protocol name has come up
> a. on the one hand we hear some wanting to go with the=20
> baseline protocol's name (LWAPP) and b. on the other hand=20
> some others leaning towards naming the protocol to reflect=20
> close to the identity of the WG:
>=20
> 1.	contribution and analysis of the CAPWAP protocol objectives and
> evaluation leading to ensuing recommended changes to its features
> 2.	name distinct from LWAPP would better distinguish the CAPWAP
> standard from the baseline (or prior ones already in the market)
> 3.	The need to distinguish this protocol standard-to-be from what
> is already discussed in context of the selected baseline=20
> protocol and used in the market.
> 4. To eliminate confusion this has to do with light-weight=20
> APs only - and what that means by now.
>=20
> Here's what is proposed:
>=20
> The protocol going forward will go under the name of CAPWAP=20
> for the upcoming revision. If we find the WG coming up with=20
> any other appropriate name later we may revisit. However, we=20
> would not encourage lingering on naming too long.
>=20
> That said, there will not be any contest or 'voting' to start=20
> another protracted distraction.
>=20
> To acknowledge history of the baseline protocol chosen=20
> (LWAPP) name is in the evaluation draft and may optionally be=20
> noted on that in the protocol draft as well.
>=20
> -mani
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@cisco.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:26 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Protocol name
>=20
> I have seen only two emails objecting to the use of LWAPP as=20
> the name for the protocol developed by the CAPWAP WG, since=20
> the thread was started last year.  I believe that this=20
> indicates the consensus of the WG is that "LWAPP" is the=20
> agreed upon name of the protocol.  Is there any further disagreement?
>=20
>  -Bob
>=20
> Bob O'Hara
> Cisco Systems - WNBU
>=20
> Phone:  +1 408 853 5513
> Mobile: +1 408 218 4025
> =20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
>=20
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>=20
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From: Philip Rakity <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:29:55 -0800
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There is a general problem that one cannot read information that the  
AC sets from the AP.
For example the SSID and perhaps other fields.

This makes debugging difficult and in general is not a good idea.   
For each mesage element
such as  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN there should be a corresponding get.


Philip Rakity
prakity@u4eatech.com


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<p style="font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
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Good morning sir,

Amazing, Marvin-> http://tnvsqi.marchstamp.info/?88327777

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the AC
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:06:53 -0800
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From: "Bob O'Hara (boohara)" <boohara@cisco.com>
To: "Philip Rakity" <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>, <Capwap@frascone.com>
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I don't believe that debugging is one of the requirements agreed to by
the group.  I don't think that readback is necessary to support the
operational requirements.

 -Bob
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:30 PM
To: Capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the
AC

There is a general problem that one cannot read information that the =20
AC sets from the AP.
For example the SSID and perhaps other fields.

This makes debugging difficult and in general is not a good idea.  =20
For each mesage element
such as  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN there should be a corresponding get.


Philip Rakity
prakity@u4eatech.com


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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the AC
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:09:02 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the AC
Thread-Index: AcYiIHXevtCdEiCQQ6ywyrfl5kJxGQAekcsQAAAZo1A=
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Bob O'Hara (boohara)" <boohara@cisco.com>,
        "Philip Rakity" <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>, <Capwap@frascone.com>
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Further, when an AP comes up, it provides its configuration. So I'm not
sure how/why an AP would have a different config from what the AC told
it.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob O'Hara (boohara)=20
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:07 AM
> To: Philip Rakity; Capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information=20
> Set from the AC
>=20
> I don't believe that debugging is one of the requirements=20
> agreed to by the group.  I don't think that readback is=20
> necessary to support the operational requirements.
>=20
>  -Bob
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:30 PM
> To: Capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set=20
> from the AC
>=20
> There is a general problem that one cannot read information=20
> that the AC sets from the AP.
> For example the SSID and perhaps other fields.
>=20
> This makes debugging difficult and in general is not a good idea.  =20
> For each mesage element
> such as  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN there should be a corresponding get.
>=20
>=20
> Philip Rakity
> prakity@u4eatech.com
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> _________________________________________________________________
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>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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From: Darren <dplore@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the AC
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A few thoughts here...  these are probably related to issue #58, "Need
to rename Config Request and Config Update Request"

I think Phillip's point is explained by the two options presented in
section 7.1.  Is there something missing?  Relying on defaults in this
way is a pretty good way to scale configuration.

However, while confirming this all for myself.  I did run across
something a little confusing to me.

Section 2.2's description of the "Join-Confirm to Configure (2)" state
refers to section 7.2.  Section 7.2 states that the WTP sends a
configuration request to the AC.  The section then refers to the
binding specific section for the details of what should be in the WTP
initiated configuration request. I assume this is an implicit
reference to section 11.9.

When I first went through it though I started reading the binding
specific Configuration Request message (11.8).  This message is
described as being initiated by the AC.  Shouldn't 11.8 be named the
Configuration Update message?  Or maybe I am missing something. It was
a bit confusing for me.  :)

If there is concern about how long the configure state might take,
perhaps we could look at a configuration versioning method as
described in the evaluation draft section 6.4.  But I think this is
something that can wait for a future version of capwap.

-Darren

On 1/25/06, Philip Rakity <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com> wrote:
> There is a general problem that one cannot read information that the
> AC sets from the AP.
> For example the SSID and perhaps other fields.
>
> This makes debugging difficult and in general is not a good idea.
> For each mesage element
> such as  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN there should be a corresponding get.
>
>
> Philip Rakity
> prakity@u4eatech.com
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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From: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
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To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the AC
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HI,

Another way to look at this is the following....

Does the CAPWAP architecture model and protocol support
only WTPs that have a single management interface for
configuration change, which is the CAPWAP protocol.
If so, then, yes, all config changes are applied
via the CAPWAP protocol, and thus there is only
a single reason for the CAPWAP protocol to support
an AC to retrieve config info from an WTP.
That reason would be if an AC was restarted,
and thus, it would have to recover the config
and status of operating WTPs. (When an AC
stops operation, then split MAC WTPs that
tunnel STA traffic to an AC would have to
drop or queue traffic until the AC restarted,
but could keep up the 802.11 session. However,
most likely new authenticated sessions could
not be started. I'm not sure what would be
the effect to local MAC WTPs.)
However, I don't believe the current CAPWAP 
architecture supports WTPs "holding" current
start and "graceful reconnect" with a restarted
AC.

I'm guessing that there may be strong proponents
of WTPs that allow a second management interface
to change config at the WTPs durring real-world
user deployments. If so, I suggest that these
proponents speak up and present a case.
Note that I don't consider developer debugging
as another management interface for applying
config changes, and worth the cost to extend
the CAPWAP architecture and protocol to support it.

Regards,
/david t. perkins
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> Further, when an AP comes up, it provides its configuration. So I'm not
> sure how/why an AP would have a different config from what the AC told
> it.
> 
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> 
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) 
> > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:07 AM
> > To: Philip Rakity; Capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information 
> > Set from the AC
> > 
> > I don't believe that debugging is one of the requirements 
> > agreed to by the group.  I don't think that readback is 
> > necessary to support the operational requirements.
> > 
> >  -Bob
> >  
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:30 PM
> > To: Capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set 
> > from the AC
> > 
> > There is a general problem that one cannot read information 
> > that the AC sets from the AP.
> > For example the SSID and perhaps other fields.
> > 
> > This makes debugging difficult and in general is not a good idea.   
> > For each mesage element
> > such as  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN there should be a corresponding get.
> > 
> > 
> > Philip Rakity
> > prakity@u4eatech.com
> > 
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > 
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > 
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > 
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> 
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> 

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From: Philip Rakity <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the AC
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:57:04 -0800
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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It is not unreasonable to be able to confirm that a request one has  
made has been performed.  I can set the SSID but cannot read it back.

  I went a few months ago to the Intel Developers Conference and they  
mentioned they needed to re-architect their chip because they could  
not get read information that was set once the chip came up.   It is  
true that I cannot think of a great reason to be able to do this BUT  
this seems a minor change to the spec.

Philip


On Jan 26, 2006, at 9:09 AM, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:

> Further, when an AP comes up, it provides its configuration. So I'm  
> not
> sure how/why an AP would have a different config from what the AC told
> it.
>
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob O'Hara (boohara)
>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:07 AM
>> To: Philip Rakity; Capwap@frascone.com
>> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information
>> Set from the AC
>>
>> I don't believe that debugging is one of the requirements
>> agreed to by the group.  I don't think that readback is
>> necessary to support the operational requirements.
>>
>>  -Bob
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:30 PM
>> To: Capwap@frascone.com
>> Subject: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set
>> from the AC
>>
>> There is a general problem that one cannot read information
>> that the AC sets from the AP.
>> For example the SSID and perhaps other fields.
>>
>> This makes debugging difficult and in general is not a good idea.
>> For each mesage element
>> such as  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN there should be a corresponding get.
>>
>>
>> Philip Rakity
>> prakity@u4eatech.com
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>>
>

Philip Rakity
prakity@u4eatech.com


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shall notbe disclose or made available to any other party except with  
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the AC
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:50:53 -0800
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It may be a minor change to the spec.  But, it dramatically changes the
work to implement the spec.  I still see no reason to add this
capability to the protocol.  The protocol does not need to provide a
mechanism to police the implementation of the protocol in a particular
instantiation.  The market will do that.


 -Bob
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:57 AM
To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
Cc: Bob O'Hara (boohara); Capwap@frascone.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from
the AC


It is not unreasonable to be able to confirm that a request one has =20
made has been performed.  I can set the SSID but cannot read it back.

  I went a few months ago to the Intel Developers Conference and they =20
mentioned they needed to re-architect their chip because they could =20
not get read information that was set once the chip came up.   It is =20
true that I cannot think of a great reason to be able to do this BUT =20
this seems a minor change to the spec.

Philip


On Jan 26, 2006, at 9:09 AM, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:

> Further, when an AP comes up, it provides its configuration. So I'm =20
> not
> sure how/why an AP would have a different config from what the AC told
> it.
>
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob O'Hara (boohara)
>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:07 AM
>> To: Philip Rakity; Capwap@frascone.com
>> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information
>> Set from the AC
>>
>> I don't believe that debugging is one of the requirements
>> agreed to by the group.  I don't think that readback is
>> necessary to support the operational requirements.
>>
>>  -Bob
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:30 PM
>> To: Capwap@frascone.com
>> Subject: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set
>> from the AC
>>
>> There is a general problem that one cannot read information
>> that the AC sets from the AP.
>> For example the SSID and perhaps other fields.
>>
>> This makes debugging difficult and in general is not a good idea.
>> For each mesage element
>> such as  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN there should be a corresponding get.
>>
>>
>> Philip Rakity
>> prakity@u4eatech.com
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>>
>

Philip Rakity
prakity@u4eatech.com


This message is hereby marked U4EA CONFIDENTIAL, is intended only for =20
the use of the individual or individuals to which it is addressed and =20
shall notbe disclose or made available to any other party except with =20
the prior written consent of the sender. If the reader of this =20
message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that =20
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is =20
strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in =20
error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this =20
E-Mail.
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the AC
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:08:14 -0800
Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A2014A2A7B@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the AC
Thread-Index: AcYiqlYU2SfyEli/QiOay6TY3LOr4gACbArQ
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Philip Rakity" <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>
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Confirmation exists, through an explicit ack message. Extending
the protocol to allow this then opens up the need for the AC to
periodically poll WTP configs (a la SNMP) to validate local config
store with WTP remote store.

Introduces significant complexity, and frankly, I think we should
just assume that people build systems that can remember basic
instructions.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:57 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Cc: Bob O'Hara (boohara); Capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information=20
> Set from the AC
>=20
>=20
> It is not unreasonable to be able to confirm that a request=20
> one has made has been performed.  I can set the SSID but=20
> cannot read it back.
>=20
>   I went a few months ago to the Intel Developers Conference=20
> and they mentioned they needed to re-architect their chip=20
> because they could =20
> not get read information that was set once the chip came up.   It is =20
> true that I cannot think of a great reason to be able to do=20
> this BUT this seems a minor change to the spec.
>=20
> Philip
>=20
>=20
> On Jan 26, 2006, at 9:09 AM, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
>=20
> > Further, when an AP comes up, it provides its configuration. So I'm=20
> > not sure how/why an AP would have a different config from=20
> what the AC=20
> > told it.
> >
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Bob O'Hara (boohara)
> >> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:07 AM
> >> To: Philip Rakity; Capwap@frascone.com
> >> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information
> >> Set from the AC
> >>
> >> I don't believe that debugging is one of the requirements
> >> agreed to by the group.  I don't think that readback is
> >> necessary to support the operational requirements.
> >>
> >>  -Bob
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:30 PM
> >> To: Capwap@frascone.com
> >> Subject: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set
> >> from the AC
> >>
> >> There is a general problem that one cannot read information
> >> that the AC sets from the AP.
> >> For example the SSID and perhaps other fields.
> >>
> >> This makes debugging difficult and in general is not a good idea.
> >> For each mesage element
> >> such as  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN there should be a corresponding get.
> >>
> >>
> >> Philip Rakity
> >> prakity@u4eatech.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> >> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> >> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >>
> >
>=20
> Philip Rakity
> prakity@u4eatech.com
>=20
>=20
> This message is hereby marked U4EA CONFIDENTIAL, is intended=20
> only for =20
> the use of the individual or individuals to which it is=20
> addressed and =20
> shall notbe disclose or made available to any other party=20
> except with =20
> the prior written consent of the sender. If the reader of this =20
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> any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is =20
> strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in =20
> error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender=20
> of this =20
> E-Mail.
>=20
>=20
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Jan 26 15:16:57 2006
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: "Bob O'Hara (boohara)" <boohara@cisco.com>, Capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the AC
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Incidentally, this is the reason why we decided to use SNMP payload inside
of our configuration messages when we defined our CTP protocol. 

Cheers,

	Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@cisco.com] 
> Sent: January 26, 2006 2:51 PM
> To: Capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information 
> Set from the AC
> 
> It may be a minor change to the spec.  But, it dramatically 
> changes the work to implement the spec.  I still see no 
> reason to add this capability to the protocol.  The protocol 
> does not need to provide a mechanism to police the 
> implementation of the protocol in a particular instantiation. 
>  The market will do that.
> 
> 
>  -Bob
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:57 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Cc: Bob O'Hara (boohara); Capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information 
> Set from the AC
> 
> 
> It is not unreasonable to be able to confirm that a request one has  
> made has been performed.  I can set the SSID but cannot read it back.
> 
>   I went a few months ago to the Intel Developers Conference 
> and they  
> mentioned they needed to re-architect their chip because they could  
> not get read information that was set once the chip came up.   It is  
> true that I cannot think of a great reason to be able to do this BUT  
> this seems a minor change to the spec.
> 
> Philip
> 
> 
> On Jan 26, 2006, at 9:09 AM, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> 
> > Further, when an AP comes up, it provides its 
> configuration. So I'm  
> > not
> > sure how/why an AP would have a different config from what 
> the AC told
> > it.
> >
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> > Cisco Systems
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Bob O'Hara (boohara)
> >> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:07 AM
> >> To: Philip Rakity; Capwap@frascone.com
> >> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information
> >> Set from the AC
> >>
> >> I don't believe that debugging is one of the requirements
> >> agreed to by the group.  I don't think that readback is
> >> necessary to support the operational requirements.
> >>
> >>  -Bob
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:30 PM
> >> To: Capwap@frascone.com
> >> Subject: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set
> >> from the AC
> >>
> >> There is a general problem that one cannot read information
> >> that the AC sets from the AP.
> >> For example the SSID and perhaps other fields.
> >>
> >> This makes debugging difficult and in general is not a good idea.
> >> For each mesage element
> >> such as  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN there should be a corresponding get.
> >>
> >>
> >> Philip Rakity
> >> prakity@u4eatech.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> >> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> >> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >>
> >
> 
> Philip Rakity
> prakity@u4eatech.com
> 
> 
> This message is hereby marked U4EA CONFIDENTIAL, is intended 
> only for  
> the use of the individual or individuals to which it is 
> addressed and  
> shall notbe disclose or made available to any other party 
> except with  
> the prior written consent of the sender. If the reader of this  
> message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that  
> any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is  
> strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in  
> error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender 
> of this  
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> _________________________________________________________________
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> 
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> 
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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:39:12 -0700
From: Darren <dplore@gmail.com>
To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the AC
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I am strongly in favor of a strict and exclusive, master/slave
relationship between the WTP and AC.  This is especially important to
maintain configuration consistency, one of the main reasons to even
have a CAPWAP protocol.  Having more than one configuration master
creates many complexities.  In my experience, that just doesn't work
in production network environments.

I agree with Pat that the WTP Configuration Request (7.2) and WTP
Configuration Update Response (7.5) should be sufficient to report the
WTP configuration and confirm that a configuration update was applied.

-Darren

On 1/26/06, David T. Perkins <dperkins@dsperkins.com> wrote:
> HI,
>
> Another way to look at this is the following....
>
> Does the CAPWAP architecture model and protocol support
> only WTPs that have a single management interface for
> configuration change, which is the CAPWAP protocol.
> If so, then, yes, all config changes are applied
> via the CAPWAP protocol, and thus there is only
> a single reason for the CAPWAP protocol to support
> an AC to retrieve config info from an WTP.
> That reason would be if an AC was restarted,
> and thus, it would have to recover the config
> and status of operating WTPs. (When an AC
> stops operation, then split MAC WTPs that
> tunnel STA traffic to an AC would have to
> drop or queue traffic until the AC restarted,
> but could keep up the 802.11 session. However,
> most likely new authenticated sessions could
> not be started. I'm not sure what would be
> the effect to local MAC WTPs.)
> However, I don't believe the current CAPWAP
> architecture supports WTPs "holding" current
> start and "graceful reconnect" with a restarted
> AC.
>
> I'm guessing that there may be strong proponents
> of WTPs that allow a second management interface
> to change config at the WTPs durring real-world
> user deployments. If so, I suggest that these
> proponents speak up and present a case.
> Note that I don't consider developer debugging
> as another management interface for applying
> config changes, and worth the cost to extend
> the CAPWAP architecture and protocol to support it.
>
> Regards,
> /david t. perkins
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> > Further, when an AP comes up, it provides its configuration. So I'm not
> > sure how/why an AP would have a different config from what the AC told
> > it.
> >
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> > Cisco Systems
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bob O'Hara (boohara)
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:07 AM
> > > To: Philip Rakity; Capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information
> > > Set from the AC
> > >
> > > I don't believe that debugging is one of the requirements
> > > agreed to by the group.  I don't think that readback is
> > > necessary to support the operational requirements.
> > >
> > >  -Bob
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Philip Rakity [mailto:philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:30 PM
> > > To: Capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set
> > > from the AC
> > >
> > > There is a general problem that one cannot read information
> > > that the AC sets from the AP.
> > > For example the SSID and perhaps other fields.
> > >
> > > This makes debugging difficult and in general is not a good idea.
> > > For each mesage element
> > > such as  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN there should be a corresponding get.
> > >
> > >
> > > Philip Rakity
> > > prakity@u4eatech.com
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From: zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
Subject: Re:Re: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set from the
	AC
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> I agree with Pat that the WTP Configuration Request (7.2) and WTP
> Configuration Update Response (7.5) should be sufficient to report the
> WTP configuration and confirm that a configuration update was applied.

I aggree with above description.


Distributed configuration is difficult to maintain. Unfortunately, fit AP solution 
has this problem. So that I think WTP is only a logical part of AC. LWAPP should resolve the problem. When configure on AC, LWAPP should confirm configuration consistence on WTP and AC.

Current LWAPP configuration messages can realized normal configuration from AC to AP. And
if there are some errores, WTP can notify AC with "change event messge".

Best regards

Michael




> I am strongly in favor of a strict and exclusive, master/slave
> relationship between the WTP and AC.  This is especially important to
> maintain configuration consistency, one of the main reasons to even
> have a CAPWAP protocol.  Having more than one configuration master
> creates many complexities.  In my experience, that just doesn't work
> in production network environments.
> 
> I agree with Pat that the WTP Configuration Request (7.2) and WTP
> Configuration Update Response (7.5) should be sufficient to report the
> WTP configuration and confirm that a configuration update was applied.
> 
> -Darren
> 
> On 1/26/06, David T. Perkins <dperkins@dsperkins.com> wrote:
> > HI,
> >
> > Another way to look at this is the following....
> >
> > Does the CAPWAP architecture model and protocol support
> > only WTPs that have a single management interface for
> > configuration change, which is the CAPWAP protocol.
> > If so, then, yes, all config changes are applied
> > via the CAPWAP protocol, and thus there is only
> > a single reason for the CAPWAP protocol to support
> > an AC to retrieve config info from an WTP.
> > That reason would be if an AC was restarted,
> > and thus, it would have to recover the config
> > and status of operating WTPs. (When an AC
> > stops operation, then split MAC WTPs that
> > tunnel STA traffic to an AC would have to
> > drop or queue traffic until the AC restarted,
> > but could keep up the 802.11 session. However,
> > most likely new authenticated sessions could
> > not be started. I'm not sure what would be
> > the effect to local MAC WTPs.)
> > However, I don't believe the current CAPWAP
> > architecture supports WTPs "holding" current
> > start and "graceful reconnect" with a restarted
> > AC.
> >
> > I'm guessing that there may be strong proponents
> > of WTPs that allow a second management interface
> > to change config at the WTPs durring real-world
> > user deployments. If so, I suggest that these
> > proponents speak up and present a case.
> > Note that I don't consider developer debugging
> > as another management interface for applying
> > config changes, and worth the cost to extend
> > the CAPWAP architecture and protocol to support it.
> >
> > Regards,
> > /david t. perkins
> > On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> > > Further, when an AP comes up, it provides its configuration. 
> So I'm not
> > > sure how/why an AP would have a different config from what the 
> AC told
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Pat Calhoun
> > > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> > > Cisco Systems
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Bob O'Hara (boohara)
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:07 AM
> > > > To: Philip Rakity; Capwap@frascone.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information
> > > > Set from the AC
> > > >
> > > > I don't believe that debugging is one of the requirements
> > > > agreed to by the group.  I don't think that readback is
> > > > necessary to support the operational requirements.
> > > >
> > > >  -Bob
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Philip Rakity [philip.rakity@u4eatech.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:30 PM
> > > > To: Capwap@frascone.com
> > > > Subject: [Capwap] Should be able to Read Back Information Set
> > > > from the AC
> > > >
> > > > There is a general problem that one cannot read information
> > > > that the AC sets from the AP.
> > > > For example the SSID and perhaps other fields.
> > > >
> > > > This makes debugging difficult and in general is not a good 
> idea.> > > For each mesage element
> > > > such as  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN there should be a 
> corresponding get.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Philip Rakity
> > > > prakity@u4eatech.com
> _________________________________________________________________
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Jan 27 00:47:47 2006
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Hi all:

   I have a doubt about AP configuration.

   All WLAN configurations are on AC. When LWAPP transmits WLAN configuration using "11.8.1.1  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN".

   But on AP device, configuration process may be asynchronous. This means AP responses the "11.8.1.1  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN" message before finishing configuration process. If configuration is fail (For example memory is not enough), how to notify AC about this error.

   Can LWAPP defines notification message for "11.  IEEE 802.11 Binding". Or LWAPP appends mention that all "11.  IEEE 802.11 Binding" message should firstly be processed before AP sends corresponding response.

Best regards
Michael

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Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:30:40 +0530
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> 
> <snipped>
> 
> > Page 24, Section 3.3 and Section 6.1. If you have a bit set to
> > identify a control message, why do you need 2 UDP ports to 
> > differentiate between control and data messages for the protocol?
> Issue 48 created, and this issue is resolved in the next draft.
> 
 IMO;
 
 Agree,the bit set is deprecated if Layer 3 transport is ONLY used.
 
 My recommendation would be;
 For layer 3 transport as well, the data and control
 channels should be Distinguished with sockets and not Bits.
 
 Because;
 1. the data flow packet rate may need to be handled
 seperately from the control channel flow, as there rates will differ.
 -> so typically I would handle the data socket at a lower layer rather
 than the control traffic.
 -> it could also help in a distributed AC architecture, where the
 forwarding
 plane is separate from the control plane.
 
 2. considering multi threaded OS apps, implementations
 MAY find it better to use the efficient native threads 
 (rather than implement something of their own or re-invent).
 
 Regards,
 Sujay
 

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From: zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] About BSS number "Issue 50"
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Issue50 (wish)=3A
=3E Page 34=2C Section 5=2E1=2E3=2E LWAPP seems to assume that WLAN =

=3E radios will support
=3E 16 BSS=27s per Radio=2E It would be better not assume that every =

=3E WTP supports 16 radios and add a field to indicate the number =

=3E of virtual networks per radio=2E
At one point=2C the sheer number of beacons will saturate the air waves=2C=

so we need to pick a maximum=2E What number do we want=3F



Hi=3A

Sorry=2C I can not get the information=2E

=A1=B03=2E1=2E2  RID Field=A1=B1 defines LWAPP supports 8 radios=2E I thi=
nk this performance is enough=2E If AP supports =A1=B0every WTP supports =
16 radios=A1=B1=2C the AP should has 16 wireless chipset=2C and it will b=
e too expensive=2E So that AP supports virtual multiple wireless networks=
 on same radio=2E

And there is no limitation about how many BSS are supported by one radio=2C=
 because =A1=B03=2E1=2E8  Status and WLANS=A1=B1 defines 16-bits =A1=B0WL=
AN ID=A1=B1=2E  The product can define corresponding BSS number per radio=
 based on product performance=2E

So I think that current definition for =A1=B0radio and WLAN=A1=B1 is enou=
gh=2E

Best regard
Michael




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Thread-Topic: About BSS number "Issue 50"
Thread-Index: AcYjFHjeBZFN1d3KT5avZK2mp2/ZRAASL+hg
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "zhaoyujin 31390" <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
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So you are stating that the current text is sufficient, right?

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:37 PM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Cc: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: About BSS number "Issue 50"
>=20
> Issue50 (wish):
> > Page 34, Section 5.1.3. LWAPP seems to assume that WLAN radios will=20
> > support
> > 16 BSS's per Radio. It would be better not assume that every WTP=20
> > supports 16 radios and add a field to indicate the number=20
> of virtual=20
> > networks per radio.
> At one point, the sheer number of beacons will saturate the=20
> air waves, so we need to pick a maximum. What number do we want?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hi:
>=20
> Sorry, I can not get the information.
>=20
> "3.1.2  RID Field" defines LWAPP supports 8 radios. I think=20
> this performance is enough. If AP supports "every WTP=20
> supports 16 radios", the AP should has 16 wireless chipset,=20
> and it will be too expensive. So that AP supports virtual=20
> multiple wireless networks on same radio.
>=20
> And there is no limitation about how many BSS are supported=20
> by one radio, because "3.1.8  Status and WLANS" defines=20
> 16-bits "WLAN ID".  The product can define corresponding BSS=20
> number per radio based on product performance.
>=20
> So I think that current definition for "radio and WLAN" is enough.
>=20
> Best regard
> Michael
>=20
>=20
>=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] About "IEEE 802.11 Binding"
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:19:48 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] About "IEEE 802.11 Binding"
Thread-Index: AcYjBTXKwvufE5IbTIKZb4ak6/HNAwAWDypA
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "zhaoyujin 31390" <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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They do have to be processed prior to responding. What would you like to
see changed to make this clearer?

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:47 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] About "IEEE 802.11 Binding"
>=20
> Hi all:
>=20
>    I have a doubt about AP configuration.
>=20
>    All WLAN configurations are on AC. When LWAPP transmits=20
> WLAN configuration using "11.8.1.1  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN".
>=20
>    But on AP device, configuration process may be=20
> asynchronous. This means AP responses the "11.8.1.1  IEEE=20
> 802.11 Add WLAN" message before finishing configuration=20
> process. If configuration is fail (For example memory is not=20
> enough), how to notify AC about this error.
>=20
>    Can LWAPP defines notification message for "11.  IEEE=20
> 802.11 Binding". Or LWAPP appends mention that all "11.  IEEE=20
> 802.11 Binding" message should firstly be processed before AP=20
> sends corresponding response.
>=20
> Best regards
> Michael
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Review of LWAPP 3.0
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I believe Sujay is arguing for the use of separate UDP ports vs. the
'C' bit in the header. Please note that the 'C' bit was required for
non Layer 3. However, if we are opting to only support layer 3, then=20
I would agree that the use of UDP ports is a great way to differentiate
control vs. data.

Thoughts?

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:01 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] Review of LWAPP 3.0
>=20
>=20
> >=20
> > <snipped>
> >=20
> > > Page 24, Section 3.3 and Section 6.1. If you have a bit set to=20
> > > identify a control message, why do you need 2 UDP ports to=20
> > > differentiate between control and data messages for the protocol?
> > Issue 48 created, and this issue is resolved in the next draft.
> >=20
>  IMO;
> =20
>  Agree,the bit set is deprecated if Layer 3 transport is ONLY used.
> =20
>  My recommendation would be;
>  For layer 3 transport as well, the data and control =20
> channels should be Distinguished with sockets and not Bits.
> =20
>  Because;
>  1. the data flow packet rate may need to be handled =20
> seperately from the control channel flow, as there rates will differ.
>  -> so typically I would handle the data socket at a lower=20
> layer rather  than the control traffic.
>  -> it could also help in a distributed AC architecture,=20
> where the  forwarding  plane is separate from the control plane.
> =20
>  2. considering multi threaded OS apps, implementations  MAY=20
> find it better to use the efficient native threads  (rather=20
> than implement something of their own or re-invent).
> =20
>  Regards,
>  Sujay
> =20
>=20
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I've noticed some things in the 01 draft that need fixing, and I intend to try to roll those edits in and submit a rev'd draft over the weekend. In particular, there are some adjustments to the state machine diagram, and the PSK algorithm idenitifiers are not consistent with the text (missing DHE and RSA variants, and including plain PSK algorithms even though the text says those must not be supported).

As for the PSK algorithms, the text currently says plain psk's must not be used due to their vulnerability to dictionary attacks.. Some have suggested this is too restrictive, and after thinking it over, I think I agree. It seems like allowing plain psk's but adding the standard admonishments regarding weak passphrases and dictionary attacks might make sense.

So, two questions: first, does anyone have any opinions on the above? Second, does anyone have any other issues that should be considered prior to rev'ing the draft?

Thanks,

Scott

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Scott G. Kelly writes... [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]

> As for the PSK algorithms, the text currently says plain psk's must
not be
> used due to their vulnerability to dictionary attacks.. Some have
> suggested this is too restrictive, and after thinking it over, I think
I
> agree. It seems like allowing plain psk's but adding the standard
> admonishments regarding weak passphrases and dictionary attacks might
make
> sense.

I don't have any problem with PSK methods, using suitable crypto-suites,
key lengths, and key entropy.  I would recommend including one of there.
As you say, the risk is in generating keys from pass-phrases that have
low entropy and are subject to dictionary attack.=20

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--------------AttPart_54496788==.OLA--



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From: zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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Yes.
I think current protocol definition is sufficient for product.

Best regards
Michael


> So you are stating that the current text is sufficient, right?
> 
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: zhaoyujin 31390 [zhaoyujin@huawei.com] 
> > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:37 PM
> > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > Cc: capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: About BSS number "Issue 50"
> > 
> > Issue50 (wish):
> > > Page 34, Section 5.1.3. LWAPP seems to assume that WLAN radios 
> will 
> > > support
> > > 16 BSS's per Radio. It would be better not assume that every 
> WTP 
> > > supports 16 radios and add a field to indicate the number 
> > of virtual 
> > > networks per radio.
> > At one point, the sheer number of beacons will saturate the 
> > air waves, so we need to pick a maximum. What number do we want?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi:
> > 
> > Sorry, I can not get the information.
> > 
> > "3.1.2  RID Field" defines LWAPP supports 8 radios. I think 
> > this performance is enough. If AP supports "every WTP 
> > supports 16 radios", the AP should has 16 wireless chipset, 
> > and it will be too expensive. So that AP supports virtual 
> > multiple wireless networks on same radio.
> > 
> > And there is no limitation about how many BSS are supported 
> > by one radio, because "3.1.8  Status and WLANS" defines 
> > 16-bits "WLAN ID".  The product can define corresponding BSS 
> > number per radio based on product performance.
> > 
> > So I think that current definition for "radio and WLAN" is enough.
> > 
> > Best regard
> > Michael
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

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From: zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
Subject: Re:RE: [Capwap] About "IEEE 802.11 Binding"
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Because deifferent product has different process mechanism, LWAPP need give clear description about process.

I suggest:

>11.8.2  IEEE 802.11 WLAN Config Response
>
>   The IEEE 802.11 WLAN Configuration Response is sent by the WTP to the
>   AC as an acknowledgement of the receipt of an IEEE 802.11 WLAN
>   Configuration Request.
>   This LWAPP control message does not include any message elements.

change to:
11.8.2  IEEE 802.11 WLAN Config Response
    The IEEE 802.11 WLAN Configuration Response is sent by the WTP to the
    AC as an acknowledgement of the receipt of an IEEE 802.11 WLAN
    Configuration Request.

    Before this LWAPP control message is sent, the IEEE 802.11 WLAN 
    Cofiguration should be successfully implemented.

    This LWAPP control message does not include any message elements.

>9.2  Mobile Config Response
>
>   The Mobile Configuration Response is used to acknowledge a previously
>   received Mobile Configuration Request, and includes a Result Code
>   message element which indicates whether an error occured on the WTP.
>
>   This message requires no special processing, and is only used to
>   acknowledge the Mobile Configuration Request.
>
>   The data transfer request message MUST contain the message elements
>   described in the next subsection.

change to:
9.2  Mobile Config Response

   The Mobile Configuration Response is used to acknowledge a previously
   received Mobile Configuration Request, and includes a Result Code
   message element which indicates whether an error occured on the WTP.

   Before this message is sent, the Mobile Cofiguration should be implemented.
   The Result Code indicate if Mobile Cofiguration is successfully on WTP.

   This message requires no special processing, and is only used to
   acknowledge the Mobile Configuration Request.

   The data transfer request message MUST contain the message elements
   described in the next subsection.

And if "IEEE 802.11 WLAN Configuration Response" also has a Result Code message element
as "Mobile Config Response", 802.11 protocol may be better to control WLAN configuration.

Best regards
Michael


> They do have to be processed prior to responding. What would you 
> like to
> see changed to make this clearer?
> 
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: zhaoyujin 31390 [zhaoyujin@huawei.com] 
> > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:47 PM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: [Capwap] About "IEEE 802.11 Binding"
> > 
> > Hi all:
> > 
> >    I have a doubt about AP configuration.
> > 
> >    All WLAN configurations are on AC. When LWAPP transmits 
> > WLAN configuration using "11.8.1.1  IEEE 802.11 Add WLAN".
> > 
> >    But on AP device, configuration process may be 
> > asynchronous. This means AP responses the "11.8.1.1  IEEE 
> > 802.11 Add WLAN" message before finishing configuration 
> > process. If configuration is fail (For example memory is not 
> > enough), how to notify AC about this error.
> > 
> >    Can LWAPP defines notification message for "11.  IEEE 
> > 802.11 Binding". Or LWAPP appends mention that all "11.  IEEE 
> > 802.11 Binding" message should firstly be processed before AP 
> > sends corresponding response.
> > 
> > Best regards
> > Michael
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > 
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > 
> 

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Subject: Re:RE: [Capwap] lwapp-dtls edits
	"LWAPP need support "NULL-Authentication" and "NLL-Encryption" feature"
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LWAPP need support "NULL-Authentication" and "NLL-Encryption" feature.

We have discussed many security issues.

But factly many "fit AP"scenarioes may be interior of one company. The company current wired network does not need secruity.

In "5.2.2  AC Descriptor" only defines two type authentication, this will limit user's application and increase user cost. Fit AP should support to get "shared-key" or "Certificate ".
>   Security:  A 8 bit bit mask specifying the security schemes supported
>      by the AC.  The following values are supported (see Section 10):
>
>      1 - X.509 Certificate Based
>
>      2 - Pre-Shared Secret

Can LWAPP add new Security: 3- NULL-Authentication

Best regards
Michael


> Scott G. Kelly writes... [s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]
> 
> > As for the PSK algorithms, the text currently says plain psk's must
> not be
> > used due to their vulnerability to dictionary attacks.. Some have
> > suggested this is too restrictive, and after thinking it over, I 
> thinkI
> > agree. It seems like allowing plain psk's but adding the standard
> > admonishments regarding weak passphrases and dictionary attacks 
> mightmake
> > sense.
> 
> I don't have any problem with PSK methods, using suitable crypto-
> suites,key lengths, and key entropy.  I would recommend including 
> one of there.
> As you say, the risk is in generating keys from pass-phrases that have
> low entropy and are subject to dictionary attack. 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 06:59:30 -0800
From: Scott G Kelly <scott@hyperthought.com>
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To: zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] lwapp-dtls edits	"LWAPP need support
	"NULL-Authentication" and "NLL-Encryption" feature"
References: <770e5d7717b9.7717b9770e5d@huawei.com>
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zhaoyujin 31390 wrote:
> LWAPP need support "NULL-Authentication" and "NLL-Encryption"
> feature.
> 
> We have discussed many security issues.
> 
> But factly many "fit AP"scenarioes may be interior of one company.
> The company current wired network does not need secruity.

I assume you mean "fat AP" - if not, please define "fit AP" (maybe it's 
one that works out for the customer :-))

> In "5.2.2  AC Descriptor" only defines two type authentication, this
> will limit user's application and increase user cost. Fit AP should
> support to get "shared-key" or "Certificate ".

These are both defined authentication methods, so I'm missing something. 
Can you re-phrase your request?

>> Security:  A 8 bit bit mask specifying the security schemes
>> supported by the AC.  The following values are supported (see
>> Section 10):
>> 
>> 1 - X.509 Certificate Based
>> 
>> 2 - Pre-Shared Secret
> 
> 
> Can LWAPP add new Security: 3- NULL-Authentication

Do you mean no security, e.g. TLS_NULL_WITH_NULL_NULL?

--Scott
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--------------AttPart_74067676==.OLA--



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Page 37 -- Top

The items labeled Radio and Max Radios:  The supporting text implies these
items have nothing to do with Radio's.  More descriptive labels:

ConfWTP -- Configued WTP
MaxWTP -- Max WTP

regards,

Philip

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From: zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] Re:RE: RE: RE: About dynamic udpating Bootrom and Image
	data
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I have checked current issues=2C draft=2C and eval=2E

There is no mention about =22bootrom download=22=2E

=22Issue40 (Feature resolved)=3A Adapt firmware trigger state machine to =
allow transition from Run state=22 resolves that AC can dynamically updat=
e AP firmware after AP runs=2E

I suggestion=3A

  LWAPP defines a new massage which is used in running state=2E This mass=
age notifies AP to check or download its firmware or bootrom=2E

If LWAPP provides this feature=2C user can directly update bootrom softwa=
re without take down the AP from the ceiling=2E

Best regards
Michael

=3E Why can=27t the image being downloaded=2C as defined in the LWAPP=2C =

=3E also include the bootrom=3F
=3E =

=3E Pat Calhoun
=3E CTO=2C Wireless Networking Business Unit
=3E Cisco Systems
=3E =

=3E =

=3E =

=3E =3E -----Original Message-----
=3E =3E From=3A zhaoyujin 31390 =5Bzhaoyujin=40huawei=2Ecom=5D =

=3E =3E Sent=3A Thursday=2C January 26=2C 2006 9=3A23 PM
=3E =3E To=3A Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
=3E =3E Subject=3A =BB=D8=B8=B4=3ARE=3A RE=3A About dynamic udpating Boot=
rom and Image data
=3E =3E =

=3E =3E I think this is my comment=2E
=3E =3E =

=3E =3E Can we provide a method to update the bootrom=2E Many device =

=3E =3E supports update the bootrom on-line=2E
=3E =3E =

=3E =3E Best regards
=3E =3E Michael
=3E =3E =

=3E =3E =

=3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E Sorry=2C but I am not sure that I follow=2E Is your comment =

=3E =3E that you want =

=3E =3E =3E to *also* manage the bootrom=3F
=3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E Pat Calhoun
=3E =3E =3E CTO=2C Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
=3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E -----Original Message-----
=3E =3E =3E =3E From=3A zhaoyujin 31390 =5Bzhaoyujin=40huawei=2Ecom=5D
=3E =3E =3E =3E Sent=3A Wednesday=2C January 25=2C 2006 6=3A01 AM
=3E =3E =3E =3E To=3A Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
=3E =3E =3E =3E Subject=3A =BB=D8=B8=B4=3ARE=3A About dynamic udpating Bo=
otrom and Image data
=3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E Hi pat=3A
=3E =3E =3E =3E   =

=3E =3E =3E =3E    But current downloading firmware only before AP is run=
ning=2E
=3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E    For some AP=2C if we need update the bootrom of device=
=2E =

=3E =3E We should =

=3E =3E =3E =3E get the bootrom off device and write it=2E This is very =

=3E diffcult to =

=3E =3E =3E =3E manage=2E
=3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E    So I think we can provide dynamical downloading firmwa=
re =

=3E and =

=3E =3E =3E =3E bootrom=2E
=3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E Best regards
=3E =3E =3E =3E Michael
=3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E The LWAPP protocol already defines a method of downlo=
ading
=3E =3E =3E =3E firmware on
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E both Split and Local MAC Aps=2E
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E Pat Calhoun
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E CTO=2C Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco System=
s
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E -----Original Message-----
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E From=3A zhaoyujin 31390 =5Bzhaoyujin=40huawei=2Ec=
om=5D
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E Sent=3A Monday=2C January 23=2C 2006 8=3A56 PM
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E To=3A Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E Cc=3A capwap=40frascone=2Ecom
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E Subject=3A About dynamic udpating Bootrom and Ima=
ge data
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E Hi=3A
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E   Both split MAC and local MAC can be called =22F=
it AP=22=2E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E Presently=2C many =22Fit AP=22 devices don=27t ha=
ve other
=3E =3E =3E =3E manangement method
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E (For example Console=2C Telnet=2C and so on)=2E
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E   Can we add two control message elements which a=
re used =

=3E for =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E updating Bootrom and Image data=2C when =22Fit AP=
=22 is running=2E
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E Best regards
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E Michael
=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =3E =

=3E =3E =

=3E 

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Jan 30 00:45:57 2006
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From: "sujathav" <sujathav@future.futsoft.com>
To: <capwap@frascone.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:15:00 +0530
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Subject: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11 ADd WLAN and Update WLAN
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Hi,

 1. The Update WLAN is available for pushing new  configuration to the WTP
when there are
changes to the WLAN configuration. It allows for change of encryption
policy.

The issue is that for some cases, when 802.11i is used, a change in
encryption policy cannot be
fully effected without re-programming the beacons that are to be sent out
from the Radio for this WLAN.

 Don't we need, along with other fields . a place-holder in the WLAN update
request for the RSN IE and
its length ? The RSN IE changes everytime there is a change in the RSNA
configuration for the WLAN
(like changing the Group Cipher / Adding more Pairwise Ciphers etc) and can
be sent out in the WLAN
Update .

 2. Isn't it likely for the WTP and AC to support more than one encryption
algorithm for the data
from the  mobile stations ? And the mobile stations can make a choice of the
encr algo that
they can use.

    In that case, the Encryption policy defined as part of  Update WLAN (
Section 11.8.1.3)
and Secn 11.8.1.1 (Add WLAN) should  be a bit-map.


Thanks
Sujatha




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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Jan 30 02:23:21 2006
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From: zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
To: Capwap@frascone.com
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Subject: [Capwap] About "WTP Serial Number"
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Hi all:

  I suggestion:

    In "5.1.2  WTP Descriptor", we add field "WTP Serial Number" as following:

5.1.2  WTP Descriptor

   The WTP descriptor message element is used by the WTP to communicate
   it's current hardware/firmware configuration.  The value contains the
   following fields.

      0                   1                   2                   3
      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |                      Hardware   Version                       |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |                      Software   Version                       |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |                          Boot   Version                       |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |   Max Radios  | Radios in use |    Encryption Capabilities    |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |                      WTP Serial Number ...                    |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


   Type:  3 for WTP Descriptor

   Length:  16

   Hardware Version:  A 32-bit integer representing the WTP's hardware
      version number

   Software Version:  A 32-bit integer representing the WTP's Firmware
      version number

   Boot Version:  A 32-bit integer representing the WTP's boot loader's
      version number

   Max Radios:  An 8-bit value representing the number of radios (where
      each radio is identified via the RID field) supported by the WTP

   Radios in use:  An 8-bit value representing the number of radios
      present in the WTP

   Encryption Capabilities:  This 16-bit field is used by the WTP to
      communicate it's capabilities to the AC.  Since most WTPs support
      link layer encryption, the AC may make use of these services.
      There are binding dependent encryption capabilites.  An WTP that
      does not have any encryption capabilities would set this field to
      zero (0).  Refer to the specific binding for the specification.

   WTP Serial Number:  24 byte WTP Serial Number.



If LWAPP provides this message, AC can decide if response the AP discovery request. This feature will help for AP management.

If there is no this field, only in "7.2  Configure Request" includes "WTP Serial Number". In fact, AC maybe does not exist configuration for this AP. But before check this, LWAPP had negotiated many cotrol packets which wastes system resource.

Best regards
Michael


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From jaasaeger@telemed.de Mon Jan 30 03:32:14 2006
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Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:03:06 +0500
From: zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
Subject: Re:[Capwap] IEEE 802.11 ADd WLAN and Update WLAN
To: sujathav@future.futsoft.com
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I agree you.

Presently, one ESS should support multiple encryption method including "Auth Type" and "Encryption Policy"

We should try to define as:
      0x01 - Encrypt WEP 104:  All packets to/from the mobile station must
         be encrypted using standard 104 bit WEP.

      0x02 - Clear Text:  All packets to/from the mobile station do not
         require any additional crypto processing by the WTP.

      0x04 - Encrypt WEP 40:  All packets to/from the mobile station must
         be encrypted using standard 40 bit WEP.

      0x08 - Encrypt WEP 128:  All packets to/from the mobile station must
         be encrypted using standard 128 bit WEP.

      0x10 - Encrypt AES-CCMP 128:  All packets to/from the mobile station
         must be encrypted using 128 bit AES CCMP [7]

      0x20 - Encrypt TKIP-MIC:  All packets to/from the mobile station must
         be encrypted using TKIP and authenticated using Michael [18]

      0x40 - Encrypt CKIP:  All packets to/from the mobile station must be
         encrypted using Cisco TKIP.

and same for "auth type"

Best regards
Michael

> 
> Hi,
> 
> 1. The Update WLAN is available for pushing new  configuration to 
> the WTP
> when there are
> changes to the WLAN configuration. It allows for change of encryption
> policy.
> 
> The issue is that for some cases, when 802.11i is used, a change in
> encryption policy cannot be
> fully effected without re-programming the beacons that are to be 
> sent out
> from the Radio for this WLAN.
> 
> Don't we need, along with other fields . a place-holder in the 
> WLAN update
> request for the RSN IE and
> its length ? The RSN IE changes everytime there is a change in the 
> RSNAconfiguration for the WLAN
> (like changing the Group Cipher / Adding more Pairwise Ciphers 
> etc) and can
> be sent out in the WLAN
> Update .
> 
> 2. Isn't it likely for the WTP and AC to support more than one 
> encryptionalgorithm for the data
> from the  mobile stations ? And the mobile stations can make a 
> choice of the
> encr algo that
> they can use.
> 
>    In that case, the Encryption policy defined as part of  Update 
> WLAN (
> Section 11.8.1.3)
> and Secn 11.8.1.1 (Add WLAN) should  be a bit-map.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Sujatha
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Subject: Re: [Capwap] lwapp-dtls edits	"LWAPP need
	support	"NULL-Authentication" and "NLL-Encryption" feature"
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 >> But factly many "fit AP"scenarioes may be interior of one company.
 >> The company current wired network does not need secruity.
 >
 >
 > I assume you mean "fat AP" - if not, please define "fit AP" (maybe
 > it's one that works out for the customer :-))

I think "fit" == "thin".

The point of the original post is that security on the wired network is 
unnecessary in many cases.  The whole point of most wireless 
installation is to provide access to the wired network.  Thus if you 
have to run MitM/spoofing attacks against wired devices before you can 
access the wireless ones, then you should be safe due to the apparent 
paradox.  That is, if you have access to the wired network already, why 
attack the wireless one?

Of course, being the security guy it's my job to strongly disagree. 
Well, I guess it all depends on your threat model.  I imagine the 
so-called "NULL Authentication" would facilitate WTP configuration, but 
a manufacturer generated cert isn't that much harder, and gives you more 
security.

If DTLS were used, then using the NULL ciphersuite would be a good way 
to tackle this problem (if there even really is a problem...)

[ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ]
[ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ]

Scott G Kelly wrote:
> zhaoyujin 31390 wrote:
> 
>> LWAPP need support "NULL-Authentication" and "NLL-Encryption"
>> feature.
>>
>> We have discussed many security issues.
>>
> 
>> In "5.2.2  AC Descriptor" only defines two type authentication, this
>> will limit user's application and increase user cost. Fit AP should
>> support to get "shared-key" or "Certificate ".
> 
> 
> These are both defined authentication methods, so I'm missing something. 
> Can you re-phrase your request?
> 
>>> Security:  A 8 bit bit mask specifying the security schemes
>>> supported by the AC.  The following values are supported (see
>>> Section 10):
>>>
>>> 1 - X.509 Certificate Based
>>>
>>> 2 - Pre-Shared Secret
>>
>>
>>
>> Can LWAPP add new Security: 3- NULL-Authentication
> 
> 
> Do you mean no security, e.g. TLS_NULL_WITH_NULL_NULL?
> 
> --Scott
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 >> But factly many "fit AP"scenarioes may be interior of one company.
 >> The company current wired network does not need secruity.
 >
 >
 > I assume you mean "fat AP" - if not, please define "fit AP" (maybe
 > it's one that works out for the customer :-))

I think "fit" == "thin".

The point of the original post is that security on the wired network is 
unnecessary in many cases.  The whole point of most wireless 
installation is to provide access to the wired network.  Thus if you 
have to run MitM/spoofing attacks against wired devices before you can 
access the wireless ones, then you should be safe due to the apparent 
paradox.  That is, if you have access to the wired network already, why 
attack the wireless one?

Of course, being the security guy it's my job to strongly disagree. 
Well, I guess it all depends on your threat model.  I imagine the 
so-called "NULL Authentication" would facilitate WTP configuration, but 
a manufacturer generated cert isn't that much harder, and gives you more 
security.

If DTLS were used, then using the NULL ciphersuite would be a good way 
to tackle this problem (if there even really is a problem...)

[ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ]
[ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ]
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Tue Jan 31 18:47:22 2006
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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:46:09 -0800
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Thread-Topic: RE: RE: RE: About dynamic udpating Bootrom and Image data
Thread-Index: AcYlUrGFNaohO+3TS3KWJv4zYHvYEQBbcbnw
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "zhaoyujin 31390" <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
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I've reopened issue 40, and added your comments, which need to be =
discussed as a group.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:07 PM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Cc: Capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Re:RE: RE: RE: About dynamic udpating Bootrom and Image data
>=20
> I have checked current issues, draft, and eval.
>=20
> There is no mention about "bootrom download".
>=20
> "Issue40 (Feature resolved): Adapt firmware trigger state=20
> machine to allow transition from Run state" resolves that AC=20
> can dynamically update AP firmware after AP runs.
>=20
> I suggestion:
>=20
>   LWAPP defines a new massage which is used in running state.=20
> This massage notifies AP to check or download its firmware or bootrom.
>=20
> If LWAPP provides this feature, user can directly update=20
> bootrom software without take down the AP from the ceiling.
>=20
> Best regards
> Michael
>=20
> > Why can't the image being downloaded, as defined in the LWAPP, also=20
> > include the bootrom?
> >=20
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: zhaoyujin 31390 [zhaoyujin@huawei.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:23 PM
> > > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > > Subject: =BB=D8=B8=B4:RE: RE: About dynamic udpating Bootrom and =
Image data
> > >=20
> > > I think this is my comment.
> > >=20
> > > Can we provide a method to update the bootrom. Many=20
> device supports=20
> > > update the bootrom on-line.
> > >=20
> > > Best regards
> > > Michael
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > > Sorry, but I am not sure that I follow. Is your comment
> > > that you want
> > > > to *also* manage the bootrom?
> > > >=20
> > > > Pat Calhoun
> > > > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: zhaoyujin 31390 [zhaoyujin@huawei.com]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:01 AM
> > > > > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > > > > Subject: =BB=D8=B8=B4:RE: About dynamic udpating Bootrom and =
Image data
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Hi pat:
> > > > >  =20
> > > > >    But current downloading firmware only before AP is running.
> > > > >=20
> > > > >    For some AP, if we need update the bootrom of device.=20
> > > We should
> > > > > get the bootrom off device and write it. This is very
> > diffcult to
> > > > > manage.
> > > > >=20
> > > > >    So I think we can provide dynamical downloading firmware
> > and
> > > > > bootrom.
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Best regards
> > > > > Michael
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > > The LWAPP protocol already defines a method of downloading
> > > > > firmware on
> > > > > > both Split and Local MAC Aps.
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Pat Calhoun
> > > > > > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: zhaoyujin 31390 [zhaoyujin@huawei.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:56 PM
> > > > > > > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > > > > > > Cc: capwap@frascone.com
> > > > > > > Subject: About dynamic udpating Bootrom and Image data
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > Hi:
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > >   Both split MAC and local MAC can be called "Fit AP".=20
> > > > > > > Presently, many "Fit AP" devices don't have other
> > > > > manangement method
> > > > > > > (For example Console, Telnet, and so on).
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > >   Can we add two control message elements which are used
> > for
> > > > > > > updating Bootrom and Image data, when "Fit AP" is running.
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > Best regards
> > > > > > > Michael
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Tue Jan 31 18:54:41 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11 ADd WLAN and Update WLAN
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:53:41 -0800
Message-ID: <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A2014F9F50@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11 ADd WLAN and Update WLAN
Thread-Index: AcYlYGyo+qOiEffiRG+KODPnI4YddwBYISJQ
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: <sujathav@future.futsoft.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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1. I've created tracker entry 68.

2. No, but I do believe that some clarifications are required in the
text. The presence of a key is either because a shared key system is
being used (e.g., WEP), or it is a GTK (Group Transient Key), both of
which only allow for a single transform to be used. Issue 69 is created.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sujathav [mailto:sujathav@future.futsoft.com]=20
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 9:45 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11 ADd WLAN and Update WLAN
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
>  1. The Update WLAN is available for pushing new =20
> configuration to the WTP when there are changes to the WLAN=20
> configuration. It allows for change of encryption policy.
>=20
> The issue is that for some cases, when 802.11i is used, a=20
> change in encryption policy cannot be fully effected without=20
> re-programming the beacons that are to be sent out from the=20
> Radio for this WLAN.
>=20
>  Don't we need, along with other fields . a place-holder in=20
> the WLAN update request for the RSN IE and its length ? The=20
> RSN IE changes everytime there is a change in the RSNA=20
> configuration for the WLAN (like changing the Group Cipher /=20
> Adding more Pairwise Ciphers etc) and can be sent out in the=20
> WLAN Update .
>=20
>  2. Isn't it likely for the WTP and AC to support more than=20
> one encryption algorithm for the data from the  mobile=20
> stations ? And the mobile stations can make a choice of the=20
> encr algo that they can use.
>=20
>     In that case, the Encryption policy defined as part of =20
> Update WLAN ( Section 11.8.1.3) and Secn 11.8.1.1 (Add WLAN)=20
> should  be a bit-map.
>=20
>=20
> Thanks
> Sujatha
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> **************************************************************
> *************
> This message is proprietary to Future Software Limited (FSL)=20
> and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom=20
> it is addressed. It may contain  privileged or confidential=20
> information and should not be circulated or used for any=20
> purpose other than for what it is intended.
>=20
> If you have received this message in error, please notify the=20
> originator immediately. If you are not the intended=20
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> FSL accepts no responsibility for loss or damage arising from=20
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> including damage from virus.
> **************************************************************
> *************
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Section 5.2.2 Minor Editioral Comment
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:54:47 -0800
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Issue 70.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com [mailto:Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com]=20
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 2:04 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Section 5.2.2 Minor Editioral Comment
>=20
>=20
> Page 37 -- Top
>=20
> The items labeled Radio and Max Radios:  The supporting text=20
> implies these items have nothing to do with Radio's.  More=20
> descriptive labels:
>=20
> ConfWTP -- Configued WTP
> MaxWTP -- Max WTP
>=20
> regards,
>=20
> Philip
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
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>=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] About "WTP Serial Number"
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:55:46 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] About "WTP Serial Number"
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "zhaoyujin 31390" <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>, <Capwap@frascone.com>
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I've created issue 71.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 11:22 PM
> To: Capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] About "WTP Serial Number"
>=20
> Hi all:
>=20
>   I suggestion:
>=20
>     In "5.1.2  WTP Descriptor", we add field "WTP Serial=20
> Number" as following:
>=20
> 5.1.2  WTP Descriptor
>=20
>    The WTP descriptor message element is used by the WTP to=20
> communicate
>    it's current hardware/firmware configuration.  The value=20
> contains the
>    following fields.
>=20
>       0                   1                   2                   3
>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |                      Hardware   Version                       |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |                      Software   Version                       |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |                          Boot   Version                       |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |   Max Radios  | Radios in use |    Encryption Capabilities    |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |                      WTP Serial Number ...                    |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>=20
>=20
>    Type:  3 for WTP Descriptor
>=20
>    Length:  16
>=20
>    Hardware Version:  A 32-bit integer representing the WTP's hardware
>       version number
>=20
>    Software Version:  A 32-bit integer representing the WTP's Firmware
>       version number
>=20
>    Boot Version:  A 32-bit integer representing the WTP's=20
> boot loader's
>       version number
>=20
>    Max Radios:  An 8-bit value representing the number of=20
> radios (where
>       each radio is identified via the RID field) supported by the WTP
>=20
>    Radios in use:  An 8-bit value representing the number of radios
>       present in the WTP
>=20
>    Encryption Capabilities:  This 16-bit field is used by the WTP to
>       communicate it's capabilities to the AC.  Since most=20
> WTPs support
>       link layer encryption, the AC may make use of these services.
>       There are binding dependent encryption capabilites.  An WTP that
>       does not have any encryption capabilities would set=20
> this field to
>       zero (0).  Refer to the specific binding for the specification.
>=20
>    WTP Serial Number:  24 byte WTP Serial Number.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> If LWAPP provides this message, AC can decide if response the=20
> AP discovery request. This feature will help for AP management.
>=20
> If there is no this field, only in "7.2  Configure Request"=20
> includes "WTP Serial Number". In fact, AC maybe does not=20
> exist configuration for this AP. But before check this, LWAPP=20
> had negotiated many cotrol packets which wastes system resource.
>=20
> Best regards
> Michael
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
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>=20
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>=20
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