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Message-ID: <1652EBA28502ED4393B9BC9B8A4B601368B40A@mism121a.toronto.chantrynetworks.com>
From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>,
	"Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT, I recommend 
	thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and Data Tunnel"
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David,

The scenario that I have observed where NAT traversal comes into play is
what I would call an enterprise branch scenario.

You have an AC that resides at the main office and a small remote branch
office. There is still a requirement for centralized control of the wireless
network. The operating mode of the WTP at the branch location would likely
be "Local MAC". 

All control traffic between the AC and the WTP would traverse the NAT. There
are two options for the data traffic:
1) The data traffic is bridged locally to the branch network. In this case
the STA would get an IP address on the LAN of the branch network.

2) The data traffic would traverse the WAN back to the AC. In this case the
STA would get an IP address on a network that AC lives on.

Cheers,

	Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins@dsperkins.com] 
> Sent: February 28, 2006 5:44 PM
> To: Scott G. Kelly
> Cc: capwap
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT, 
> I recommend thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control 
> tunnel and Data Tunnel"
> 
> HI Emek,
> 
> Last time around the scenario that you described below was 
> brought up, I believe I asked questions like, "what IP 
> address would the STA's get, and where would their data be 
> terminated". I don't remember seeing a response. If there is 
> a single WTP behind a NAT in a geographical area, I believe 
> that using a CAPWAP system is inappropriate. It would be more 
> cost effective (for both hardware and operations costs) to 
> use a "stand alone AP".
> Also, I'm not sure if all CAPWAP ACs support multiple groups 
> of separately geograpically located WTPs. Note that since an 
> AC is a single point of failure, I certainly would not want 
> to be in a position as a service provider where I had 
> multiple customers share the same fate, unless the cost of 
> the alternative was prohibative.
> I don't believe that this is the case.
> 
> I really do want to hear motivations, with the alternative 
> listed, and the tradeoffs for each approach. I've listed some 
> of the cons, can you list some of the pros?
> 
> Thanks,
> /david t. perkins
> 
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Scott G. Kelly wrote:
> 
> > I, like David, wonder how realistic this concern might be. 
> In the first case described below (MSP's cloud-based AC 
> manages customer WTP), where does this WTP reside with 
> respect to the Internet? Wouldn't the provider need a secure 
> tunnel to the customer edge in such cases?  The alternative 
> is unauthenticated tuple-based firewall holes - not a pretty 
> picture from a security perspective. 
> > 
> > In the second case described below (NAT traversal within a 
> single administrative domain), is this realistic? Seems more 
> like an abberation than a common case, and it seems clear 
> that we don' t want to add this level of complexity just so 
> we can deal with an edge case. It seems like the operational 
> issues with this topology would more than out-weigh any benefit. 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: Sadot, Emek (Emek) (esadotavaya.com)
> > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 07:16:16 -0800 (PST)
> > 
> > David,
> > 
> > I was under the impression that the working group already 
> went through 
> > the "justification" process. To refresh our memory, I 
> believe that the 
> > key points that were brought up discussed the possibility that a 
> > service provider will connect their AC to their customer's 
> WTPs across 
> > a NAT device, or a cooperation which segments its facilities by NAT 
> > devices and deploy the AC at the main site and the WTPs at remote 
> > sites (private side of NAT), or perhaps a deployment 
> scenario would be 
> > some sort of a hosted solutions environment, where the WTPs in the 
> > different NAT'ed customer enterprise sites are controlled 
> by a central 
> > AC which is part of the provider's hosted solutions equipment.
> > 
> > My belief is that the CAPWAP protocol should not disallow the NAT 
> > traversal.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Emek
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins [at] dsperkins.com]
> > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:21 PM
> > To: zhaoyujin 31390
> > Cc: capwap [at] frascone.com
> > Subject: Re: [Capwap] One issue "In order to support NAT, I 
> recommend 
> > thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and 
> Data Tunnel"
> > 
> > HI,
> > 
> > CAPWAP with NATs has come up from time to time on this list, and 
> > people have claimed that it is a "typical" or "basic"
> > scenario. I'm sorry, but I don't see it. Before the WG spends time 
> > resolving this issue, I'd really like to see STRONG justifications. 
> > That is, why would you deploy a CAPWAP system split this 
> way? And if 
> > CAPWAP didn't support this NAT split, what would it cost 
> you, or what 
> > would you not be able to do?
> > 
> > On Mon, 27 Feb 2006, zhaoyujin 31390 wrote:
> > > Dear all:
> > > 
> > >   I recommend that LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control 
> > > tunnel
> > and Data Tunnel. 
> > > 
> > >   LWAPP protocol uses UDP packets, so that it can 
> directly support 
> > > NAT
> > passthrough.
> > > 
> > >   One basic scenario is that WTP is behind NAT device and AC is in
> > public network. For control tunnel, there are no problem. 
> Because it 
> > is initiated by WTP, NAT device can create corresponding table for 
> > LWAPP control tunnel packets.
> > > 
> > >   The problems is:
> > > 
> > >    1. The data packets can not be firstly sent from AC to WTP.
> > > 
> > >    2. Even if WTP firstly sends pacekts, AC can get the 
> > > corresponding
> > control tunnel with this LWAPP data tunnel based on the packets.
> > Because in one NAT device, there may be multiple WTP. All WTP's IP 
> > addresses are same which is NAT device global IP address, 
> and AC can 
> > not know the data packets belonging to which AP.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Best regards
> > > Yujin Zhao
> > > H3Com
> > 
> > Regards,
> > /david t. perkins
> > 
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > 
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> 
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> 
_________________________________________________________________
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Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap



From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Mar 01 09:34:41 2006
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From: Scott G Kelly <scott@hyperthought.com>
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Subject: Re: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT, I recommend
	thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and Data Tunnel"
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Hi Mike,

Isn't there a VPN between the branch and the main office? If not, there 
are very definite security concerns here. If so, isn't this a 
configuration and routing problem, as opposed to a capwap NAT traversal 
problem?

Maybe a simple ascii topology diagram would be helpful...

Scott

Michael Montemurro wrote:
> David,
> 
> The scenario that I have observed where NAT traversal comes into play is
> what I would call an enterprise branch scenario.
> 
> You have an AC that resides at the main office and a small remote branch
> office. There is still a requirement for centralized control of the wireless
> network. The operating mode of the WTP at the branch location would likely
> be "Local MAC". 
> 
> All control traffic between the AC and the WTP would traverse the NAT. There
> are two options for the data traffic:
> 1) The data traffic is bridged locally to the branch network. In this case
> the STA would get an IP address on the LAN of the branch network.
> 
> 2) The data traffic would traverse the WAN back to the AC. In this case the
> STA would get an IP address on a network that AC lives on.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 	Mike
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins@dsperkins.com] 
>>Sent: February 28, 2006 5:44 PM
>>To: Scott G. Kelly
>>Cc: capwap
>>Subject: Re: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT, 
>>I recommend thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control 
>>tunnel and Data Tunnel"
>>
>>HI Emek,
>>
>>Last time around the scenario that you described below was 
>>brought up, I believe I asked questions like, "what IP 
>>address would the STA's get, and where would their data be 
>>terminated". I don't remember seeing a response. If there is 
>>a single WTP behind a NAT in a geographical area, I believe 
>>that using a CAPWAP system is inappropriate. It would be more 
>>cost effective (for both hardware and operations costs) to 
>>use a "stand alone AP".
>>Also, I'm not sure if all CAPWAP ACs support multiple groups 
>>of separately geograpically located WTPs. Note that since an 
>>AC is a single point of failure, I certainly would not want 
>>to be in a position as a service provider where I had 
>>multiple customers share the same fate, unless the cost of 
>>the alternative was prohibative.
>>I don't believe that this is the case.
>>
>>I really do want to hear motivations, with the alternative 
>>listed, and the tradeoffs for each approach. I've listed some 
>>of the cons, can you list some of the pros?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>/david t. perkins
>>
>>On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Scott G. Kelly wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I, like David, wonder how realistic this concern might be. 
>>
>>In the first case described below (MSP's cloud-based AC 
>>manages customer WTP), where does this WTP reside with 
>>respect to the Internet? Wouldn't the provider need a secure 
>>tunnel to the customer edge in such cases?  The alternative 
>>is unauthenticated tuple-based firewall holes - not a pretty 
>>picture from a security perspective. 
>>
>>>In the second case described below (NAT traversal within a 
>>
>>single administrative domain), is this realistic? Seems more 
>>like an abberation than a common case, and it seems clear 
>>that we don' t want to add this level of complexity just so 
>>we can deal with an edge case. It seems like the operational 
>>issues with this topology would more than out-weigh any benefit. 
>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>From: Sadot, Emek (Emek) (esadotavaya.com)
>>>Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 07:16:16 -0800 (PST)
>>>
>>>David,
>>>
>>>I was under the impression that the working group already 
>>
>>went through 
>>
>>>the "justification" process. To refresh our memory, I 
>>
>>believe that the 
>>
>>>key points that were brought up discussed the possibility that a 
>>>service provider will connect their AC to their customer's 
>>
>>WTPs across 
>>
>>>a NAT device, or a cooperation which segments its facilities by NAT 
>>>devices and deploy the AC at the main site and the WTPs at remote 
>>>sites (private side of NAT), or perhaps a deployment 
>>
>>scenario would be 
>>
>>>some sort of a hosted solutions environment, where the WTPs in the 
>>>different NAT'ed customer enterprise sites are controlled 
>>
>>by a central 
>>
>>>AC which is part of the provider's hosted solutions equipment.
>>>
>>>My belief is that the CAPWAP protocol should not disallow the NAT 
>>>traversal.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Emek
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins [at] dsperkins.com]
>>>Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:21 PM
>>>To: zhaoyujin 31390
>>>Cc: capwap [at] frascone.com
>>>Subject: Re: [Capwap] One issue "In order to support NAT, I 
>>
>>recommend 
>>
>>>thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and 
>>
>>Data Tunnel"
>>
>>>HI,
>>>
>>>CAPWAP with NATs has come up from time to time on this list, and 
>>>people have claimed that it is a "typical" or "basic"
>>>scenario. I'm sorry, but I don't see it. Before the WG spends time 
>>>resolving this issue, I'd really like to see STRONG justifications. 
>>>That is, why would you deploy a CAPWAP system split this 
>>
>>way? And if 
>>
>>>CAPWAP didn't support this NAT split, what would it cost 
>>
>>you, or what 
>>
>>>would you not be able to do?
>>>
>>>On Mon, 27 Feb 2006, zhaoyujin 31390 wrote:
>>>
>>>>Dear all:
>>>>
>>>>  I recommend that LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control 
>>>>tunnel
>>>
>>>and Data Tunnel. 
>>>
>>>>  LWAPP protocol uses UDP packets, so that it can 
>>
>>directly support 
>>
>>>>NAT
>>>
>>>passthrough.
>>>
>>>>  One basic scenario is that WTP is behind NAT device and AC is in
>>>
>>>public network. For control tunnel, there are no problem. 
>>
>>Because it 
>>
>>>is initiated by WTP, NAT device can create corresponding table for 
>>>LWAPP control tunnel packets.
>>>
>>>>  The problems is:
>>>>
>>>>   1. The data packets can not be firstly sent from AC to WTP.
>>>>
>>>>   2. Even if WTP firstly sends pacekts, AC can get the 
>>>>corresponding
>>>
>>>control tunnel with this LWAPP data tunnel based on the packets.
>>>Because in one NAT device, there may be multiple WTP. All WTP's IP 
>>>addresses are same which is NAT device global IP address, 
>>
>>and AC can 
>>
>>>not know the data packets belonging to which AP.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Best regards
>>>>Yujin Zhao
>>>>H3Com
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>/david t. perkins
>>>
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>>>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>>>
>>>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>>
>>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>>
> 
> 
_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT,
	I recommend thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel
	and Data Tunnel"
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:46:53 -0500
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT,
	I recommend thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control
	tunnel and Data Tunnel"
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From: "Sadot, Emek (Emek)" <esadot@avaya.com>
To: "Michael Montemurro" <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>,
	"David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>,
	"Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>
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David Hi,

To answer your two specific questions:
"what IP address would the STA's get, and where would their data be
terminated" - I would say that the STA will get local IP address (i.e.
from the private realm of the NAT), and data will be locally terminated
at the WTP.

The "BO scenario" drawn by Mike is exactly one (out of two) cases I
envisioned. I would even argue that Local MAC (option (1) - data traffic
is locally bridged) is the only realistic approach in this scenario as
overwhelming the WAN link with STA data seems awfully undesired vs. the
option of local bridging (BO might, and in most cases has, alternate
connections - local PSTN, and local Internet access).

The second scenario address a SP network with centralized AC to
customer's WTPs across a NAT device.

Might be useful if AC/WTP vendors on the list could enlighten the group
with respect to products deployment across NAT - if any.

Regards,
Emek

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Montemurro [mailto:michael.montemurro@siemens.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:11 AM
To: David T. Perkins; Scott G. Kelly
Cc: capwap
Subject: RE: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT, I
recommend thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and
Data Tunnel"

David,

The scenario that I have observed where NAT traversal comes into play is
what I would call an enterprise branch scenario.

You have an AC that resides at the main office and a small remote branch
office. There is still a requirement for centralized control of the
wireless network. The operating mode of the WTP at the branch location
would likely be "Local MAC".=20

All control traffic between the AC and the WTP would traverse the NAT.
There are two options for the data traffic:
1) The data traffic is bridged locally to the branch network. In this
case the STA would get an IP address on the LAN of the branch network.

2) The data traffic would traverse the WAN back to the AC. In this case
the STA would get an IP address on a network that AC lives on.

Cheers,

	Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins@dsperkins.com]
> Sent: February 28, 2006 5:44 PM
> To: Scott G. Kelly
> Cc: capwap
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT, I=20
> recommend thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and=20
> Data Tunnel"
>=20
> HI Emek,
>=20
> Last time around the scenario that you described below was brought up,

> I believe I asked questions like, "what IP address would the STA's=20
> get, and where would their data be terminated". I don't remember=20
> seeing a response. If there is a single WTP behind a NAT in a=20
> geographical area, I believe that using a CAPWAP system is=20
> inappropriate. It would be more cost effective (for both hardware and=20
> operations costs) to use a "stand alone AP".
> Also, I'm not sure if all CAPWAP ACs support multiple groups of=20
> separately geograpically located WTPs. Note that since an AC is a=20
> single point of failure, I certainly would not want to be in a=20
> position as a service provider where I had multiple customers share=20
> the same fate, unless the cost of the alternative was prohibative.
> I don't believe that this is the case.
>=20
> I really do want to hear motivations, with the alternative listed, and

> the tradeoffs for each approach. I've listed some of the cons, can you

> list some of the pros?
>=20
> Thanks,
> /david t. perkins
>=20
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Scott G. Kelly wrote:
>=20
> > I, like David, wonder how realistic this concern might be.=20
> In the first case described below (MSP's cloud-based AC manages=20
> customer WTP), where does this WTP reside with respect to the=20
> Internet? Wouldn't the provider need a secure tunnel to the customer=20
> edge in such cases?  The alternative is unauthenticated tuple-based=20
> firewall holes - not a pretty picture from a security perspective.
> >=20
> > In the second case described below (NAT traversal within a
> single administrative domain), is this realistic? Seems more like an=20
> abberation than a common case, and it seems clear that we don' t want=20
> to add this level of complexity just so we can deal with an edge case.

> It seems like the operational issues with this topology would more=20
> than out-weigh any benefit.
> >=20
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: Sadot, Emek (Emek) (esadotavaya.com)
> > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 07:16:16 -0800 (PST)
> >=20
> > David,
> >=20
> > I was under the impression that the working group already
> went through
> > the "justification" process. To refresh our memory, I
> believe that the
> > key points that were brought up discussed the possibility that a=20
> > service provider will connect their AC to their customer's
> WTPs across
> > a NAT device, or a cooperation which segments its facilities by NAT=20
> > devices and deploy the AC at the main site and the WTPs at remote=20
> > sites (private side of NAT), or perhaps a deployment
> scenario would be
> > some sort of a hosted solutions environment, where the WTPs in the=20
> > different NAT'ed customer enterprise sites are controlled
> by a central
> > AC which is part of the provider's hosted solutions equipment.
> >=20
> > My belief is that the CAPWAP protocol should not disallow the NAT=20
> > traversal.
> >=20
> > Regards,
> > Emek
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins [at] dsperkins.com]
> > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:21 PM
> > To: zhaoyujin 31390
> > Cc: capwap [at] frascone.com
> > Subject: Re: [Capwap] One issue "In order to support NAT, I
> recommend
> > thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and
> Data Tunnel"
> >=20
> > HI,
> >=20
> > CAPWAP with NATs has come up from time to time on this list, and=20
> > people have claimed that it is a "typical" or "basic"
> > scenario. I'm sorry, but I don't see it. Before the WG spends time=20
> > resolving this issue, I'd really like to see STRONG justifications.
> > That is, why would you deploy a CAPWAP system split this
> way? And if
> > CAPWAP didn't support this NAT split, what would it cost
> you, or what
> > would you not be able to do?
> >=20
> > On Mon, 27 Feb 2006, zhaoyujin 31390 wrote:
> > > Dear all:
> > >=20
> > >   I recommend that LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control=20
> > > tunnel
> > and Data Tunnel.=20
> > >=20
> > >   LWAPP protocol uses UDP packets, so that it can
> directly support
> > > NAT
> > passthrough.
> > >=20
> > >   One basic scenario is that WTP is behind NAT device and AC is in
> > public network. For control tunnel, there are no problem.=20
> Because it
> > is initiated by WTP, NAT device can create corresponding table for=20
> > LWAPP control tunnel packets.
> > >=20
> > >   The problems is:
> > >=20
> > >    1. The data packets can not be firstly sent from AC to WTP.
> > >=20
> > >    2. Even if WTP firstly sends pacekts, AC can get the=20
> > > corresponding
> > control tunnel with this LWAPP data tunnel based on the packets.
> > Because in one NAT device, there may be multiple WTP. All WTP's IP=20
> > addresses are same which is NAT device global IP address,
> and AC can
> > not know the data packets belonging to which AP.
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > Best regards
> > > Yujin Zhao
> > > H3Com
> >=20
> > Regards,
> > /david t. perkins
> >=20
> >=20
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >=20
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap

Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap

_________________________________________________________________
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Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap



From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Mar 01 10:16:55 2006
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: Scott G Kelly <scott@hyperthought.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT, I recommend 
	thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and Data Tunnel"
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:15:53 -0500 
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Scott,

Yes there generally is a VPN between the branch and the main office. We've
run into situations where a customer uses NAT at the branch to limit IP
address allocation across branch offices.

Cheers,

	Mike 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott G Kelly [mailto:scott@hyperthought.com] 
> Sent: March 1, 2006 9:34 AM
> To: Michael Montemurro
> Cc: capwap
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT, 
> I recommend thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control 
> tunnel and Data Tunnel"
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> Isn't there a VPN between the branch and the main office? If 
> not, there are very definite security concerns here. If so, 
> isn't this a configuration and routing problem, as opposed to 
> a capwap NAT traversal problem?
> 
> Maybe a simple ascii topology diagram would be helpful...
> 
> Scott
> 
> Michael Montemurro wrote:
> > David,
> > 
> > The scenario that I have observed where NAT traversal comes 
> into play 
> > is what I would call an enterprise branch scenario.
> > 
> > You have an AC that resides at the main office and a small remote 
> > branch office. There is still a requirement for centralized 
> control of 
> > the wireless network. The operating mode of the WTP at the branch 
> > location would likely be "Local MAC".
> > 
> > All control traffic between the AC and the WTP would 
> traverse the NAT. 
> > There are two options for the data traffic:
> > 1) The data traffic is bridged locally to the branch 
> network. In this 
> > case the STA would get an IP address on the LAN of the 
> branch network.
> > 
> > 2) The data traffic would traverse the WAN back to the AC. In this 
> > case the STA would get an IP address on a network that AC lives on.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > 	Mike
> > 
> > 
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins@dsperkins.com]
> >>Sent: February 28, 2006 5:44 PM
> >>To: Scott G. Kelly
> >>Cc: capwap
> >>Subject: Re: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT, I 
> >>recommend thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control 
> tunnel and 
> >>Data Tunnel"
> >>
> >>HI Emek,
> >>
> >>Last time around the scenario that you described below was 
> brought up, 
> >>I believe I asked questions like, "what IP address would the STA's 
> >>get, and where would their data be terminated". I don't remember 
> >>seeing a response. If there is a single WTP behind a NAT in a 
> >>geographical area, I believe that using a CAPWAP system is 
> >>inappropriate. It would be more cost effective (for both 
> hardware and 
> >>operations costs) to use a "stand alone AP".
> >>Also, I'm not sure if all CAPWAP ACs support multiple groups of 
> >>separately geograpically located WTPs. Note that since an AC is a 
> >>single point of failure, I certainly would not want to be in a 
> >>position as a service provider where I had multiple customers share 
> >>the same fate, unless the cost of the alternative was prohibative.
> >>I don't believe that this is the case.
> >>
> >>I really do want to hear motivations, with the alternative 
> listed, and 
> >>the tradeoffs for each approach. I've listed some of the 
> cons, can you 
> >>list some of the pros?
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>/david t. perkins
> >>
> >>On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Scott G. Kelly wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I, like David, wonder how realistic this concern might be. 
> >>
> >>In the first case described below (MSP's cloud-based AC manages 
> >>customer WTP), where does this WTP reside with respect to the 
> >>Internet? Wouldn't the provider need a secure tunnel to the 
> customer 
> >>edge in such cases?  The alternative is unauthenticated tuple-based 
> >>firewall holes - not a pretty picture from a security perspective.
> >>
> >>>In the second case described below (NAT traversal within a
> >>
> >>single administrative domain), is this realistic? Seems 
> more like an 
> >>abberation than a common case, and it seems clear that we 
> don' t want 
> >>to add this level of complexity just so we can deal with an 
> edge case. 
> >>It seems like the operational issues with this topology would more 
> >>than out-weigh any benefit.
> >>
> >>>----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>From: Sadot, Emek (Emek) (esadotavaya.com)
> >>>Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 07:16:16 -0800 (PST)
> >>>
> >>>David,
> >>>
> >>>I was under the impression that the working group already
> >>
> >>went through
> >>
> >>>the "justification" process. To refresh our memory, I
> >>
> >>believe that the
> >>
> >>>key points that were brought up discussed the possibility that a 
> >>>service provider will connect their AC to their customer's
> >>
> >>WTPs across
> >>
> >>>a NAT device, or a cooperation which segments its 
> facilities by NAT 
> >>>devices and deploy the AC at the main site and the WTPs at remote 
> >>>sites (private side of NAT), or perhaps a deployment
> >>
> >>scenario would be
> >>
> >>>some sort of a hosted solutions environment, where the WTPs in the 
> >>>different NAT'ed customer enterprise sites are controlled
> >>
> >>by a central
> >>
> >>>AC which is part of the provider's hosted solutions equipment.
> >>>
> >>>My belief is that the CAPWAP protocol should not disallow the NAT 
> >>>traversal.
> >>>
> >>>Regards,
> >>>Emek
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins [at] dsperkins.com]
> >>>Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:21 PM
> >>>To: zhaoyujin 31390
> >>>Cc: capwap [at] frascone.com
> >>>Subject: Re: [Capwap] One issue "In order to support NAT, I
> >>
> >>recommend
> >>
> >>>thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and
> >>
> >>Data Tunnel"
> >>
> >>>HI,
> >>>
> >>>CAPWAP with NATs has come up from time to time on this list, and 
> >>>people have claimed that it is a "typical" or "basic"
> >>>scenario. I'm sorry, but I don't see it. Before the WG spends time 
> >>>resolving this issue, I'd really like to see STRONG justifications.
> >>>That is, why would you deploy a CAPWAP system split this
> >>
> >>way? And if
> >>
> >>>CAPWAP didn't support this NAT split, what would it cost
> >>
> >>you, or what
> >>
> >>>would you not be able to do?
> >>>
> >>>On Mon, 27 Feb 2006, zhaoyujin 31390 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Dear all:
> >>>>
> >>>>  I recommend that LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control 
> >>>>tunnel
> >>>
> >>>and Data Tunnel. 
> >>>
> >>>>  LWAPP protocol uses UDP packets, so that it can
> >>
> >>directly support
> >>
> >>>>NAT
> >>>
> >>>passthrough.
> >>>
> >>>>  One basic scenario is that WTP is behind NAT device and AC is in
> >>>
> >>>public network. For control tunnel, there are no problem. 
> >>
> >>Because it
> >>
> >>>is initiated by WTP, NAT device can create corresponding table for 
> >>>LWAPP control tunnel packets.
> >>>
> >>>>  The problems is:
> >>>>
> >>>>   1. The data packets can not be firstly sent from AC to WTP.
> >>>>
> >>>>   2. Even if WTP firstly sends pacekts, AC can get the 
> >>>>corresponding
> >>>
> >>>control tunnel with this LWAPP data tunnel based on the packets.
> >>>Because in one NAT device, there may be multiple WTP. All WTP's IP 
> >>>addresses are same which is NAT device global IP address,
> >>
> >>and AC can
> >>
> >>>not know the data packets belonging to which AP.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Best regards
> >>>>Yujin Zhao
> >>>>H3Com
> >>>
> >>>Regards,
> >>>/david t. perkins
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>_________________________________________________________________
> >>>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> >>>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >>>
> >>>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >>>
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> >>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >>
> >>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >>
> > 
> > 
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> 
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> 
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Mar 01 10:27:41 2006
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To: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT, I recommend
	thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and Data Tunnel"
References: <1652EBA28502ED4393B9BC9B8A4B601368B44C@mism121a.toronto.chantrynetworks.com>
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Okay, so unless I'm missing something, isn't this just a routing/config 
problem?

Michael Montemurro wrote:
> Scott,
> 
> Yes there generally is a VPN between the branch and the main office. We've
> run into situations where a customer uses NAT at the branch to limit IP
> address allocation across branch offices.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 	Mike 
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:53:33 +0530
From: ArchanaSuresh <archanas@huawei.com>
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Hi All,

Considering we use two separate ports for control tunnel and 2 APs are
behind the NAT.

Cp - lwapp control port & Dp - lwapp data port
Ip1, Ip2, Ip3 - local IP address at AP1 , AC, NAT device respectively 
Np1, Np2, - New ports used on NAT

When a Ctrl packet goes from AP1 to AC.
	Src <Ip1,Cp> --- Dst <Ip2,Cp>
NAT binding for  <Ip1,Cp>
	Src <Ip3,Np1> --- Dst <Ip2,Cp>
At the AC
The AP1 identifier is <Ip3, Np1>  

When a Data packet goes from AP1 to AC.
	Src <Ip1, Dp> --- Dst <Ip2, Dp>
NAT binding to  <Ip1, Dp>
		Src <Ip3,Np2> --- Dst <Ip2, Dp>
At the AC
	The AP1 identifier is <Ip3, Np2>  

Question 1:
How will AC understand the source tuple  for AP1's data packet 
<Ip3, Np1>  is the same for <Ip3, Np2>  ??
How/When should AC relate these two to belong to AP1 ?

Question 2:
What happens in a case when a data packet first needs to go from the AC to
AP1.
There is no nat entry for the data path as yet.

Regards,
Archana Suresh



-----Original Message-----
From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:29 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] One issue "In order to support NAT, I recommend that LWAPP
only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and Data Tunnel"

Dear all:

  I recommend that LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and
Data Tunnel. 

  LWAPP protocol uses UDP packets, so that it can directly support NAT
passthrough.

  One basic scenario is that WTP is behind NAT device and AC is in public
network. For control tunnel, there are no problem. Because it is initiated
by WTP, NAT device can create corresponding table for LWAPP control tunnel
packets. 

  The problems is:

   1. The data packets can not be firstly sent from AC to WTP.

   2. Even if WTP firstly sends pacekts, AC can get the corresponding
control tunnel with this LWAPP data tunnel based on the packets.  Because in
one NAT device, there may be multiple WTP. All WTP's IP addresses are same
which is NAT device global IP address, and AC can not know the data packets
belonging to which AP.


Best regards
Yujin Zhao
H3Com

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To: Scott G Kelly <scott@hyperthought.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT, I recommend 
	thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and Data Tunnel"
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Scott,

If the VPN terminates on the egress of the branch router, that means WTP
needs to traverse the NAT in order to communicate with the AC.

Cheers,

	Mike
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott G Kelly [mailto:scott@hyperthought.com] 
> Sent: March 1, 2006 10:27 AM
> To: Michael Montemurro
> Cc: capwap
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] RE: One issue "In order to support NAT, 
> I recommend thatLWAPP only support one UDP port for Control 
> tunnel and Data Tunnel"
> 
> Okay, so unless I'm missing something, isn't this just a 
> routing/config problem?
> 
> Michael Montemurro wrote:
> > Scott,
> > 
> > Yes there generally is a VPN between the branch and the 
> main office. 
> > We've run into situations where a customer uses NAT at the 
> branch to 
> > limit IP address allocation across branch offices.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > 	Mike
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> 
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Support NAT..
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:59:19 -0500
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From: "Sadot, Emek (Emek)" <esadot@avaya.com>
To: "ArchanaSuresh" <archanas@huawei.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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I think the answer you are looking for in (1) is that the AC must
refrain from uniquely identified the WTP by the IP and Port pair. WTP
shall be uniquely identified by - MAC address, serial number for example
- and the AC shall map the control session and data sessions 5-tuples to
that identifier.

The WTP shall send (dummy) packet on behalf of a STA to the AC with its
unique identifier to allow the AC to identify the WTP and sets up WTP
5-tuple to identifier mapping. Note, that until such mapping is
established, downstream data packets cannot reach their destination.

Regards,
Emek

-----Original Message-----
From: ArchanaSuresh [mailto:archanas@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:24 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Support NAT..

Hi All,

Considering we use two separate ports for control tunnel and 2 APs are
behind the NAT.

Cp - lwapp control port & Dp - lwapp data port Ip1, Ip2, Ip3 - local IP
address at AP1 , AC, NAT device respectively Np1, Np2, - New ports used
on NAT

When a Ctrl packet goes from AP1 to AC.
	Src <Ip1,Cp> --- Dst <Ip2,Cp>
NAT binding for  <Ip1,Cp>
	Src <Ip3,Np1> --- Dst <Ip2,Cp>
At the AC
The AP1 identifier is <Ip3, Np1> =20

When a Data packet goes from AP1 to AC.
	Src <Ip1, Dp> --- Dst <Ip2, Dp>
NAT binding to  <Ip1, Dp>
		Src <Ip3,Np2> --- Dst <Ip2, Dp>
At the AC
	The AP1 identifier is <Ip3, Np2> =20

Question 1:
How will AC understand the source tuple  for AP1's data packet <Ip3,
Np1>  is the same for <Ip3, Np2>  ??
How/When should AC relate these two to belong to AP1 ?

Question 2:
What happens in a case when a data packet first needs to go from the AC
to AP1.
There is no nat entry for the data path as yet.

Regards,
Archana Suresh



-----Original Message-----
From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:29 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] One issue "In order to support NAT, I recommend that
LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and Data Tunnel"

Dear all:

  I recommend that LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel
and Data Tunnel.=20

  LWAPP protocol uses UDP packets, so that it can directly support NAT
passthrough.

  One basic scenario is that WTP is behind NAT device and AC is in
public network. For control tunnel, there are no problem. Because it is
initiated by WTP, NAT device can create corresponding table for LWAPP
control tunnel packets.=20

  The problems is:

   1. The data packets can not be firstly sent from AC to WTP.

   2. Even if WTP firstly sends pacekts, AC can get the corresponding
control tunnel with this LWAPP data tunnel based on the packets.
Because in one NAT device, there may be multiple WTP. All WTP's IP
addresses are same which is NAT device global IP address, and AC can not
know the data packets belonging to which AP.


Best regards
Yujin Zhao
H3Com

_________________________________________________________________
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From: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
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To: "Sadot, Emek (Emek)" <esadot@avaya.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Support NAT..
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HI,

It looks like progress is being made on some of the technical
issues, but no one has yet addressed the alternative of
placing an AC on the same side of the NAT as the WTPs.

The CAPWAP protocol includes:
 1) AC discovery,
 2) WTP system image transfer from the AC to the WTP
 3) STA authentication and authorization at the AC
 4) roaming of STAs from one WTP to another (in real time
    if you want to support Voice over 802.11)

Will you have the needed bandwidth, latency, jitter, and packet drop
characteristics if ACs and WTPs are configured as described
in the previous messages on this thread?

Also, unless I've missed it, the current version of the
CAPWAP protocol does not have the capability of indicating
that groups of WTPs are in separate geographic areas
(lets call them, "a WiFi cloud"). It is desirable
that an AC coordinate the WTPs in a WiFi cloud so that
compatable channel and power configurations are made
and these be updated as conditions change.
And in follow-on versions of CAPWAP, that compatable
rogue detection and countermeasures be applied to
WiFi clouds. 

It really seems like the scenarios described on this
thread are NOT CAPWAP technology, but instead are
coordinated standalone APs.

Finally, I do believe that this discussion is productive,
and I believe that we need to have more of it with
written findings before trying to go forward with
finalizing the CAPWAP proto document.
I suggest that we have a "terminology and scenario"
session on Sunday afternoon and/or evening at the
start of the IETF conference.

Regards,
/david t. perkins

On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Sadot, Emek (Emek) wrote:
> I think the answer you are looking for in (1) is that the AC must
> refrain from uniquely identified the WTP by the IP and Port pair. WTP
> shall be uniquely identified by - MAC address, serial number for example
> - and the AC shall map the control session and data sessions 5-tuples to
> that identifier.
> 
> The WTP shall send (dummy) packet on behalf of a STA to the AC with its
> unique identifier to allow the AC to identify the WTP and sets up WTP
> 5-tuple to identifier mapping. Note, that until such mapping is
> established, downstream data packets cannot reach their destination.
> 
> Regards,
> Emek
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ArchanaSuresh [mailto:archanas@huawei.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:24 AM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Support NAT..
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Considering we use two separate ports for control tunnel and 2 APs are
> behind the NAT.
> 
> Cp - lwapp control port & Dp - lwapp data port Ip1, Ip2, Ip3 - local IP
> address at AP1 , AC, NAT device respectively Np1, Np2, - New ports used
> on NAT
> 
> When a Ctrl packet goes from AP1 to AC.
> 	Src <Ip1,Cp> --- Dst <Ip2,Cp>
> NAT binding for  <Ip1,Cp>
> 	Src <Ip3,Np1> --- Dst <Ip2,Cp>
> At the AC
> The AP1 identifier is <Ip3, Np1>  
> 
> When a Data packet goes from AP1 to AC.
> 	Src <Ip1, Dp> --- Dst <Ip2, Dp>
> NAT binding to  <Ip1, Dp>
> 		Src <Ip3,Np2> --- Dst <Ip2, Dp>
> At the AC
> 	The AP1 identifier is <Ip3, Np2>  
> 
> Question 1:
> How will AC understand the source tuple  for AP1's data packet <Ip3,
> Np1>  is the same for <Ip3, Np2>  ??
> How/When should AC relate these two to belong to AP1 ?
> 
> Question 2:
> What happens in a case when a data packet first needs to go from the AC
> to AP1.
> There is no nat entry for the data path as yet.
> 
> Regards,
> Archana Suresh
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:29 AM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] One issue "In order to support NAT, I recommend that
> LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and Data Tunnel"
> 
> Dear all:
> 
>   I recommend that LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel
> and Data Tunnel. 
> 
>   LWAPP protocol uses UDP packets, so that it can directly support NAT
> passthrough.
> 
>   One basic scenario is that WTP is behind NAT device and AC is in
> public network. For control tunnel, there are no problem. Because it is
> initiated by WTP, NAT device can create corresponding table for LWAPP
> control tunnel packets. 
> 
>   The problems is:
> 
>    1. The data packets can not be firstly sent from AC to WTP.
> 
>    2. Even if WTP firstly sends pacekts, AC can get the corresponding
> control tunnel with this LWAPP data tunnel based on the packets.
> Because in one NAT device, there may be multiple WTP. All WTP's IP
> addresses are same which is NAT device global IP address, and AC can not
> know the data packets belonging to which AP.
> 
> 
> Best regards
> Yujin Zhao
> H3Com
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> 
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> 
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> 
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> 

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Support NAT..
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:10:05 -0500
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Support NAT..
Thread-Index: AcY9UpFjm1smuQtoSFC5v//bZGxtXQAFMdjA
From: "Sadot, Emek (Emek)" <esadot@avaya.com>
To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
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David Hi,

Forcing an Enterprise customer strive for centralized WLAN architecture
to place an AC at each branch office, or for that matter placing AC at
each Service Provider customer is IMHO more then a bit problematic.

Your 4 points pertain to control functionalities (vs. data), thus
latency, jitter, packet drop, etc. is probably a non-issue with a remote
AC, though fast roaming might need a special consideration.

A separate geographic areas might be a valuable notion, although I'm not
sure I see the difference between remote site (WTP behind NAT) and
different floors, buildings, etc. at the same geographical domain, thus
the same NAT side, as the AC.

I'm not religious. If the group feels that supporting NAT traversal is
pointless - then let's please hear it.

Regards,
Emek=20

-----Original Message-----
From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins@dsperkins.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 12:07 PM
To: Sadot, Emek (Emek)
Cc: ArchanaSuresh; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Support NAT..

HI,

It looks like progress is being made on some of the technical issues,
but no one has yet addressed the alternative of placing an AC on the
same side of the NAT as the WTPs.

The CAPWAP protocol includes:
 1) AC discovery,
 2) WTP system image transfer from the AC to the WTP
 3) STA authentication and authorization at the AC
 4) roaming of STAs from one WTP to another (in real time
    if you want to support Voice over 802.11)

Will you have the needed bandwidth, latency, jitter, and packet drop
characteristics if ACs and WTPs are configured as described in the
previous messages on this thread?

Also, unless I've missed it, the current version of the CAPWAP protocol
does not have the capability of indicating that groups of WTPs are in
separate geographic areas (lets call them, "a WiFi cloud"). It is
desirable that an AC coordinate the WTPs in a WiFi cloud so that
compatable channel and power configurations are made and these be
updated as conditions change.
And in follow-on versions of CAPWAP, that compatable rogue detection and
countermeasures be applied to WiFi clouds.=20

It really seems like the scenarios described on this thread are NOT
CAPWAP technology, but instead are coordinated standalone APs.

Finally, I do believe that this discussion is productive, and I believe
that we need to have more of it with written findings before trying to
go forward with finalizing the CAPWAP proto document.
I suggest that we have a "terminology and scenario"
session on Sunday afternoon and/or evening at the start of the IETF
conference.

Regards,
/david t. perkins

On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Sadot, Emek (Emek) wrote:
> I think the answer you are looking for in (1) is that the AC must=20
> refrain from uniquely identified the WTP by the IP and Port pair. WTP=20
> shall be uniquely identified by - MAC address, serial number for=20
> example
> - and the AC shall map the control session and data sessions 5-tuples=20
> to that identifier.
>=20
> The WTP shall send (dummy) packet on behalf of a STA to the AC with=20
> its unique identifier to allow the AC to identify the WTP and sets up=20
> WTP 5-tuple to identifier mapping. Note, that until such mapping is=20
> established, downstream data packets cannot reach their destination.
>=20
> Regards,
> Emek
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ArchanaSuresh [mailto:archanas@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:24 AM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Support NAT..
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> Considering we use two separate ports for control tunnel and 2 APs are

> behind the NAT.
>=20
> Cp - lwapp control port & Dp - lwapp data port Ip1, Ip2, Ip3 - local=20
> IP address at AP1 , AC, NAT device respectively Np1, Np2, - New ports=20
> used on NAT
>=20
> When a Ctrl packet goes from AP1 to AC.
> 	Src <Ip1,Cp> --- Dst <Ip2,Cp>
> NAT binding for  <Ip1,Cp>
> 	Src <Ip3,Np1> --- Dst <Ip2,Cp>
> At the AC
> The AP1 identifier is <Ip3, Np1>
>=20
> When a Data packet goes from AP1 to AC.
> 	Src <Ip1, Dp> --- Dst <Ip2, Dp>
> NAT binding to  <Ip1, Dp>
> 		Src <Ip3,Np2> --- Dst <Ip2, Dp>
> At the AC
> 	The AP1 identifier is <Ip3, Np2>
>=20
> Question 1:
> How will AC understand the source tuple  for AP1's data packet <Ip3,
> Np1>  is the same for <Ip3, Np2>  ??
> How/When should AC relate these two to belong to AP1 ?
>=20
> Question 2:
> What happens in a case when a data packet first needs to go from the=20
> AC to AP1.
> There is no nat entry for the data path as yet.
>=20
> Regards,
> Archana Suresh
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:29 AM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] One issue "In order to support NAT, I recommend that

> LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and Data Tunnel"
>=20
> Dear all:
>=20
>   I recommend that LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel=20
> and Data Tunnel.
>=20
>   LWAPP protocol uses UDP packets, so that it can directly support NAT

> passthrough.
>=20
>   One basic scenario is that WTP is behind NAT device and AC is in=20
> public network. For control tunnel, there are no problem. Because it=20
> is initiated by WTP, NAT device can create corresponding table for=20
> LWAPP control tunnel packets.
>=20
>   The problems is:
>=20
>    1. The data packets can not be firstly sent from AC to WTP.
>=20
>    2. Even if WTP firstly sends pacekts, AC can get the corresponding=20
> control tunnel with this LWAPP data tunnel based on the packets.
> Because in one NAT device, there may be multiple WTP. All WTP's IP=20
> addresses are same which is NAT device global IP address, and AC can=20
> not know the data packets belonging to which AP.
>=20
>=20
> Best regards
> Yujin Zhao
> H3Com
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20


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From: Behcet Sarikaya <behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com>
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Dear all, we submitted our draft:

draft-sarikaya-capwap-capwaphp-01
on newly designed 
CAPWAP Handover Protocol (CAPWAPHP)


until it appears at IETF site you can download it from:

http://www.geocities.com/behcetsarikaya/draft-sarikaya-capwap-capwaphp-01.txt

Comments are welcome.

Behcet


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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Control And Provisioning of Wireless Access Points Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: CAPWAP Protocol Specification
	Author(s)	: P. Calhoun, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-specification-00.txt
	Pages		: 119
	Date		: 2006-3-2
	
   Wireless LAN product architectures have evolved from single
   autonomous access points to systems consisting of a centralized
   controller and Wireless Termination Points (WTPs).  The general goal
   of centralized control architectures is to move access control,
   including user authentication and authorization, mobility management
   and radio management from the single access point to a centralized
   controller.

   This specification defines the Control And Provisioning of Wireless
   Access Points (CAPWAP) Protocol.  The CAPWAP protocol meets the IETF
   CAPWAP working group protocol requirements.  The CAPWAP protocol is
   designed to be flexible, allowing it to be used for a variety of
   wireless technologies.  This document describes the base CAPWAP
   protocol, including an extension which supports the IEEE 802.11
   wireless LAN protocol.  Future extensions will enable support of
   additional wireless technologies.

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Thread-Topic: Figure 1 - Generic figure for CAPWAP architecture
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C63E8E.55871F43
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Hi All,

=20

I was finally read through the new CAPWAP Specifications draft. I think
we have a very good start with this draft.=20

=20

This note is regarding Figure 1 "Representative CAPWAP Architecture for
Split-MAC" on page 7. I think it will be good to use a generic figure
that shows the CAPWAP architecture for both split-MAC and local-MAC.=20

=20

How about the following?

=20

=20

+-+                          (SM)  +-+

| |--------------------------------| |

| |          \802.11 frames        | |

| |           \                    | |

| |        (LM)\                   | |=20

| |             \+-+               | |

| |              | |               | |

| |--------------| |---------------| |

| |  802.11 PHY/ | |   CAPWAP      | |

| | MAC sublayer | |               | |

+-+              +-+               +-+

STA              WTP                AC

=20

=20

=20

The last sentence of the 2nd paragraph of the Introduction can be
modified to explain this.

=20

'Figure 1 illustrates this ...... to an IEEE 802.11 binding, "in which
paths for Split-MAC (SM) and Local-MAC (LM) designs are shown."

=20

=20

=20

Cheers,


Saravanan=20


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Hi =
All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>I was finally read through the new =
CAPWAP
Specifications draft. I think we have a very good start with this draft. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>This note is regarding Figure 1 =
&#8220;Representative
CAPWAP Architecture for Split-MAC&#8221; on page 7. I think it will be =
good to
use a generic figure that shows the CAPWAP architecture for both =
split-MAC and
local-MAC. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>How about the =
following?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>+-+&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
(SM)&nbsp; +-+<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>| =
|--------------------------------| |<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>| | =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;\802.11
frames&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>| =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;\ =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|
|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>| =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
(LM)\&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
| | <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>|
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 =
\+-+&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
| |<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>|
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
|
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;
| |<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>| |--------------| =
|---------------| |<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>| |&nbsp; 802.11 PHY/ | =
|&nbsp;&nbsp; CAPWAP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;| |<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>| | MAC sublayer | |&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|=

|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>+-+&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>STA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
WTP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
AC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The last sentence of the 2nd =
paragraph of
the Introduction can be modified to explain =
this.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&#8216;Figure 1 illustrates this =
&#8230;&#8230;
to an IEEE 802.11 binding, &#8220;in which paths for Split-MAC (SM) and
Local-MAC (LM) designs are shown.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><br>
Saravanan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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All,

=20

This is regarding the statistics exchanges. So far, the statistics
information are specified only for the IEEE 802.11 binding (11.7.2.1
"IEEE 802.11 Statistics").=20

=20

I think WTPs also need to exchange more general information about the
network as a whole and about the WTP. For instance, WTP needs to
exchange its loading and queuing information so that the AC can monitor
the state and capacity of the network.=20

Since this needs to be periodic, my suggestion is to have the Echo
Request (6.1 "Echo Request") carry statistics or general feedback
message elements. So with every Echo exchange, the AC will learn about
the prevailing general conditions of the network.=20

=20

The following proposal relates to the draft:

=20

----0000----

In section 6.1 Echo Request, introduce a "Statistics" message element
with the following fields.

=20

      0                   1                   2                   3

      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |          WTP Load             |     WTP Transmit Queue        |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |    Channel Interference       |          Congestion           |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=20

=20

Type: TBD

=20

WTP Load: A 16-bit value specifying the load (frames/sec) exchanged by
the WTP.

=20

WTP Transmit Queue: A 16-bit value specifying the prevailing queue level
as a=20

     portion of total queue size.

=20

Channel Interference: A 16-bit value specifying SINR (dB) monitored by
the WTP.

=20

Congestion: A 16-bit value specifying the congestion experienced by the
WTP.

----XXXX----

=20

=20

Saravanan


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>This is regarding the statistics =
exchanges.
So far, the statistics information are specified only for the IEEE =
802.11
binding (11.7.2.1 &#8220;IEEE 802.11 Statistics&#8221;). =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>I think WTPs also need to exchange =
more
general information about the network as a whole and about the WTP. For
instance, WTP needs to exchange its loading and queuing information so =
that the
AC can monitor the state and capacity of the network. <br>
<br>
Since this needs to be periodic, my suggestion is to have the Echo =
Request (6.1
&#8220;Echo Request&#8221;) carry statistics or general feedback message
elements. So with every Echo exchange, the AC will learn about the =
prevailing general
conditions of the network. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The following proposal relates to =
the
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>----0000----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>In section 6.1 Echo Request, =
introduce a &#8220;Statistics&#8221;
message element with the following fields.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0 1 =
2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP
Load&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP
Transmit Queue =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Channel Interference&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Congestion&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Type: =
TBD<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>WTP Load: A 16-bit value specifying =
the
load (frames/sec) exchanged by the WTP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>WTP Transmit Queue: A 16-bit value
specifying the prevailing queue level as a <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; portion of =
total
queue size.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Channel Interference: A 16-bit =
value
specifying SINR (dB) monitored by the WTP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Congestion: A 16-bit value =
specifying the
congestion experienced by the WTP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>----XXXX----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

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Thread-Topic: IEEE 802.11i - Encryption
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All,

=20

For the IEEE 802.11 binding, the protocol deals with split-MAC and
local-MAC architectures. For both types, there is the design case of
having encryption at the WTP and authenticator at the AC. This design
case is a mandatory requirement from the Objectives. I think there was a
discussion about this in the last meeting.=20

=20

I suggest adding new Key Configuration & Key Configuration Response
messages to 11.8 "802.11 Control Messages" in the IEEE 802.11 bindings
section and describing the exchange in new subsections 11.8.4 to 11.8.5.

=20

The suggested text follows;

=20

=20

=20

----0000----

11.8.4      IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration

=20

The IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration CAPWAP message is used in WTP designs
in which IEEE 802.11i authenticator functions are performed by the AC
and IEEE 802.11i cryptographic functions (encryption/decryption) are
performed by the WTPs.=20

=20

This CAPWAP message is sent from the AC to the WTP. It must contain
either of the following 2 message elements.=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

11.8.4.1     IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake

=20

The IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake message element is sent by the AC to the
WTP during the 4-way handshake. It contains Message-3 of the 4-way
handshake with unassigned values as the AC is unaware of the prevailing
KeyRSC sequence counter maintained by the WTP. =20

=20

Message-1, Message-2 and Message-4 of the 4-way handshake are
transported within CAPWAP data packets between AC and WTP.=20

=20

The IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake message element contains the following
values:

=20

=20

      0                   1                   2                   3

      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |    GTK-Flag   |                   Reserved                    |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |                        Encryption-Data                        |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |                          EAPoL-Frame                          |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=20

=20

GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag that determines the type of KeyMIC calculation

    =20

     0 - New GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC =3D 0

=20

     1 - Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing KeyRSC value

=20

Encryption-Data: Contains PTK and/or GTK

=20

EAPoL-Frame: Contains Message-3 of 4-way handshake with unassigned
fields

=20

Upon receipt of the Key Configuration message from the AC, the WTP
performs the following operations:

=20

    i.            Assigns the corresponding value to the KeyRSC field of
the EAPoL-Frame=20

ii.            Calculates KeyMIC with Encrytion-Data and KeyRSC

iii.            Updates Message-3 of 4-way handshake

iv.            Continues regular 4-way handshake with wireless terminals

=20

=20

=20

=20

11.8.4.2     IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake

=20

The IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake message element is sent by the AC to
the WTP during the group key handshake. It contains Message-1 of the
group key handshake with unassigned values as the AC is unaware of the
prevailing KeyRSC sequence counter maintained by the WTP. =20

=20

Message-2 of the group key handshake is transported within a CAPWAP data
packet between AC and WTP.=20

=20

The IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake message element contains the
following values:

=20

      0                   1                   2                   3

      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |    GTK-Flag   |                   Reserved                    |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |                        Encryption-Data                        |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |                          EAPoL-Frame                          |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=20

=20

GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag that determines the type of KeyMIC calculation

    =20

     0 - New GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC =3D 0

=20

     1 - Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing KeyRSC value

=20

Encryption-Data: Contains PTK and/or GTK

=20

EAPoL-Frame: Contains Message-1 of group key handshake with unassigned
fields

=20

Upon receipt of the Key Configuration message from AC, the WTP performs
the following operations:

    i.            Assigns the corresponding value to the KeyRSC field of
the EAPoL-Frame=20

ii.            Calculates KeyMIC with Encrytion-Data and KeyRSC

iii.            Updates Message-1 of group key handshake

iv.            Continues regular group handshake with wireless terminals

=20

=20

=20

=20

11.8.5     IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Response

=20

The IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Response CAPWAP message is sent by the
WTP to the AC as an acknowledgement of the receipt of an IEEE 802.11 Key
Configuration Request.=20

=20

----XXXX----

=20

=20


Saravanan


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>For the IEEE 802.11 binding, the =
protocol
deals with split-MAC and local-MAC architectures. For both types, there =
is the design
case of having encryption at the WTP and authenticator at the AC. This =
design
case is a mandatory requirement from the Objectives. I think there was a
discussion about this in the last meeting. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>I suggest adding new Key =
Configuration
&amp; Key Configuration Response messages to 11.8 &#8220;802.11 Control
Messages&#8221; in the IEEE 802.11 bindings section and describing the =
exchange
in new subsections 11.8.4 to 11.8.5.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The suggested text =
follows;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>----0000----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>11.8.4 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
IEEE 802.11
Key Configuration<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration =
CAPWAP
message is used in WTP designs in which IEEE 802.11i authenticator =
functions
are performed by the AC and IEEE 802.11i cryptographic functions
(encryption/decryption) are performed by the WTPs. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>This CAPWAP message is sent from =
the AC to
the WTP. It must contain either of the following 2 message elements. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>11.8.4.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
IEEE
802.11 4-way Handshake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The IEEE 802.11 =
4-way
Handshake message element is sent by the AC to the WTP during the 4-way
handshake. It contains Message-3 of the 4-way handshake with unassigned =
values
as the AC is unaware of the prevailing KeyRSC sequence counter =
maintained by
the WTP. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Message-1, =
Message-2 and
Message-4 of the 4-way handshake are transported within CAPWAP data =
packets
between AC and WTP. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The IEEE 802.11 =
4-way
Handshake message element contains the following =
values:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;GTK-Flag&nbsp; &nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reserved&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Encryption-Data&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;EAPoL-Frame =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag that =
determines
the type of KeyMIC calculation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0 &#8211; =
New GTK,
KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC =3D 0<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 &#8211;
Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing KeyRSC =
value<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Encryption-Data: Contains PTK =
and/or GTK<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>EAPoL-Frame: Contains Message-3 of =
4-way
handshake with unassigned fields<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Upon receipt of =
the Key
Configuration message from the AC, the WTP performs the following =
operations:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-.25in;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:
Ignore'><font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font>i.<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Assigns the =
corresponding
value to the KeyRSC field of the EAPoL-Frame =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-.25in;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:
Ignore'>ii.<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Calculates =
KeyMIC with
Encrytion-Data and KeyRSC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-.25in;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:
Ignore'>iii.<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Updates =
Message-3 of
4-way handshake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-.25in;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:
Ignore'>iv.<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Continues =
regular 4-way
handshake with wireless terminals<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>11.8.4.2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
IEEE
802.11 Group Key Handshake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The IEEE 802.11 =
Group Key
Handshake message element is sent by the AC to the WTP during the group =
key
handshake. It contains Message-1 of the group key handshake with =
unassigned
values as the AC is unaware of the prevailing KeyRSC sequence counter
maintained by the WTP. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Message-2 of the =
group
key handshake is transported within a CAPWAP data packet between AC and =
WTP. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The IEEE 802.11 =
Group Key
Handshake message element contains the following =
values:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;GTK-Flag&nbsp; &nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reserved&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Encryption-Data&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;EAPoL-Frame =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag that =
determines
the type of KeyMIC calculation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0 &#8211; =
New GTK,
KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC =3D 0<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 &#8211;
Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing KeyRSC =
value<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Encryption-Data: Contains PTK =
and/or GTK<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>EAPoL-Frame: Contains Message-1 of =
group
key handshake with unassigned fields<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Upon receipt of =
the Key
Configuration message from AC, the WTP performs the following =
operations:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-.25in;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:
Ignore'><font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font>i.<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Assigns the =
corresponding
value to the KeyRSC field of the EAPoL-Frame =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-.25in;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:
Ignore'>ii.<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Calculates =
KeyMIC with
Encrytion-Data and KeyRSC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-.25in;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:
Ignore'>iii.<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Updates =
Message-1 of
group key handshake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.5in;mso-text-indent-alt:-.25in;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:
Ignore'>iv.<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Continues =
regular group
handshake with wireless terminals<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>11.8.5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IEEE =
802.11
Key Configuration Response<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration =
Response
CAPWAP message is sent by the WTP to the AC as an acknowledgement of the
receipt of an IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Request. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>----XXXX----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><br>
Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11i - Encryption
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Saravanan,
 
It looks to me that some of this functionality is captured in the Add Mobile
message description in section 11.7.1.
Could you take a look at that section an suggest how it could be modified?
Or do you feel that we need to define a new message.
 
However I don't see what message would be used to transport a new GTK once
it has been generated by the AC.
 
Cheers,
 
    Mike


  _____  

From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] 
Sent: March 3, 2006 5:25 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11i - Encryption



All,

 

For the IEEE 802.11 binding, the protocol deals with split-MAC and local-MAC
architectures. For both types, there is the design case of having encryption
at the WTP and authenticator at the AC. This design case is a mandatory
requirement from the Objectives. I think there was a discussion about this
in the last meeting. 

 

I suggest adding new Key Configuration & Key Configuration Response messages
to 11.8 "802.11 Control Messages" in the IEEE 802.11 bindings section and
describing the exchange in new subsections 11.8.4 to 11.8.5.

 

The suggested text follows;

 

 

 

----0000----

11.8.4      IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration

 

The IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration CAPWAP message is used in WTP designs in
which IEEE 802.11i authenticator functions are performed by the AC and IEEE
802.11i cryptographic functions (encryption/decryption) are performed by the
WTPs. 

 

This CAPWAP message is sent from the AC to the WTP. It must contain either
of the following 2 message elements. 

 

 

 

 

11.8.4.1     IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake

 

The IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake message element is sent by the AC to the WTP
during the 4-way handshake. It contains Message-3 of the 4-way handshake
with unassigned values as the AC is unaware of the prevailing KeyRSC
sequence counter maintained by the WTP.  

 

Message-1, Message-2 and Message-4 of the 4-way handshake are transported
within CAPWAP data packets between AC and WTP. 

 

The IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake message element contains the following
values:

 

 

      0                   1                   2                   3

      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |    GTK-Flag   |                   Reserved                    |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |                        Encryption-Data                        |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |                          EAPoL-Frame                          |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 

 

GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag that determines the type of KeyMIC calculation

     

     0 - New GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC = 0

 

     1 - Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing KeyRSC value

 

Encryption-Data: Contains PTK and/or GTK

 

EAPoL-Frame: Contains Message-3 of 4-way handshake with unassigned fields

 

Upon receipt of the Key Configuration message from the AC, the WTP performs
the following operations:

 

    i.            Assigns the corresponding value to the KeyRSC field of the
EAPoL-Frame 

ii.            Calculates KeyMIC with Encrytion-Data and KeyRSC

iii.            Updates Message-3 of 4-way handshake

iv.            Continues regular 4-way handshake with wireless terminals

 

 

 

 

11.8.4.2     IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake

 

The IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake message element is sent by the AC to the
WTP during the group key handshake. It contains Message-1 of the group key
handshake with unassigned values as the AC is unaware of the prevailing
KeyRSC sequence counter maintained by the WTP.  

 

Message-2 of the group key handshake is transported within a CAPWAP data
packet between AC and WTP. 

 

The IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake message element contains the following
values:

 

      0                   1                   2                   3

      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |    GTK-Flag   |                   Reserved                    |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |                        Encryption-Data                        |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |                          EAPoL-Frame                          |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 

 

GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag that determines the type of KeyMIC calculation

     

     0 - New GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC = 0

 

     1 - Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing KeyRSC value

 

Encryption-Data: Contains PTK and/or GTK

 

EAPoL-Frame: Contains Message-1 of group key handshake with unassigned
fields

 

Upon receipt of the Key Configuration message from AC, the WTP performs the
following operations:

    i.            Assigns the corresponding value to the KeyRSC field of the
EAPoL-Frame 

ii.            Calculates KeyMIC with Encrytion-Data and KeyRSC

iii.            Updates Message-1 of group key handshake

iv.            Continues regular group handshake with wireless terminals

 

 

 

 

11.8.5     IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Response

 

The IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Response CAPWAP message is sent by the WTP
to the AC as an acknowledgement of the receipt of an IEEE 802.11 Key
Configuration Request. 

 

----XXXX----

 

 


Saravanan


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<BODY lang=EN-US vLink=purple link=blue>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=376464614-03032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>Saravanan,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=376464614-03032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=376464614-03032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>It looks to me that some of this functionality is captured 
in the Add Mobile message description in section 11.7.1.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=376464614-03032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>Could you take a look at that section an suggest how it 
could be modified? Or do you feel that we need to define a new 
message.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=376464614-03032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=376464614-03032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>However I don't see what message would be used to transport 
a new GTK once it has been generated by the&nbsp;AC.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=376464614-03032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=376464614-03032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=376464614-03032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=376464614-03032006>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT 
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Mike</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
  <HR tabIndex=-1>
  <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan 
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> March 3, 2006 
  5:25 AM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Capwap] IEEE 
  802.11i - Encryption<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=Section1>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">All,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">For the IEEE 802.11 
  binding, the protocol deals with split-MAC and local-MAC architectures. For 
  both types, there is the design case of having encryption at the WTP and 
  authenticator at the AC. This design case is a mandatory requirement from the 
  Objectives. I think there was a discussion about this in the last meeting. 
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">I suggest adding new 
  Key Configuration &amp; Key Configuration Response messages to 11.8 &#8220;802.11 
  Control Messages&#8221; in the IEEE 802.11 bindings section and describing the 
  exchange in new subsections 11.8.4 to 11.8.5.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The suggested text 
  follows;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">----0000----<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">11.8.4 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IEEE 802.11 Key 
  Configuration<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The IEEE 802.11 Key 
  Configuration CAPWAP message is used in WTP designs in which IEEE 802.11i 
  authenticator functions are performed by the AC and IEEE 802.11i cryptographic 
  functions (encryption/decryption) are performed by the WTPs. 
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">This CAPWAP message is 
  sent from the AC to the WTP. It must contain either of the following 2 message 
  elements. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">11.8.4.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The IEEE 802.11 4-way 
  Handshake message element is sent by the AC to the WTP during the 4-way 
  handshake. It contains Message-3 of the 4-way handshake with unassigned values 
  as the AC is unaware of the prevailing KeyRSC sequence counter maintained by 
  the WTP. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Message-1, Message-2 
  and Message-4 of the 4-way handshake are transported within CAPWAP data 
  packets between AC and WTP. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The IEEE 802.11 4-way 
  Handshake message element contains the following 
  values:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  3<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 
  1<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;GTK-Flag&nbsp; &nbsp;| 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reserved&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Encryption-Data&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;EAPoL-Frame 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag 
  that determines the type of KeyMIC calculation<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  0 &#8211; New GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC = 0<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  1 &#8211; Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing KeyRSC 
  value<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Encryption-Data: 
  Contains PTK and/or GTK<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">EAPoL-Frame: Contains 
  Message-3 of 4-way handshake with unassigned 
  fields<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Upon receipt of the Key 
  Configuration message from the AC, the WTP performs the following 
  operations:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P 
  style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: -.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT 
  face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN 
  style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN 
  style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT>i.<FONT 
  face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN 
  style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face="Lucida Console" 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Assigns 
  the corresponding value to the KeyRSC field of the EAPoL-Frame 
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P 
  style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: -.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT 
  face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN 
  style="mso-list: Ignore">ii.<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN 
  style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face="Lucida Console" 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Calculates 
  KeyMIC with Encrytion-Data and KeyRSC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P 
  style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: -.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT 
  face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN 
  style="mso-list: Ignore">iii.<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN 
  style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face="Lucida Console" 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Updates 
  Message-3 of 4-way handshake<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P 
  style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: -.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT 
  face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN 
  style="mso-list: Ignore">iv.<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN 
  style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face="Lucida Console" 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Continues 
  regular 4-way handshake with wireless terminals<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">11.8.4.2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The IEEE 802.11 Group 
  Key Handshake message element is sent by the AC to the WTP during the group 
  key handshake. It contains Message-1 of the group key handshake with 
  unassigned values as the AC is unaware of the prevailing KeyRSC sequence 
  counter maintained by the WTP. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Message-2 of the group 
  key handshake is transported within a CAPWAP data packet between AC and WTP. 
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The IEEE 802.11 Group 
  Key Handshake message element contains the following 
  values:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  3<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 
  1<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;GTK-Flag&nbsp; &nbsp;| 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reserved&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Encryption-Data&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;EAPoL-Frame 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag 
  that determines the type of KeyMIC calculation<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  0 &#8211; New GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC = 0<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  1 &#8211; Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing KeyRSC 
  value<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Encryption-Data: 
  Contains PTK and/or GTK<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">EAPoL-Frame: Contains 
  Message-1 of group key handshake with unassigned 
  fields<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Upon receipt of the Key 
  Configuration message from AC, the WTP performs the following 
  operations:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P 
  style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><FONT 
  face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN 
  style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN 
  style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT>i.<FONT 
  face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN 
  style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face="Lucida Console" 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Assigns 
  the corresponding value to the KeyRSC field of the EAPoL-Frame 
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P 
  style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><FONT 
  face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN 
  style="mso-list: Ignore">ii.<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN 
  style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face="Lucida Console" 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Calculates 
  KeyMIC with Encrytion-Data and KeyRSC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P 
  style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><FONT 
  face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN 
  style="mso-list: Ignore">iii.<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN 
  style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face="Lucida Console" 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Updates 
  Message-1 of group key handshake<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P 
  style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><FONT 
  face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN 
  style="mso-list: Ignore">iv.<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN 
  style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face="Lucida Console" 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Continues 
  regular group handshake with wireless terminals<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">11.8.5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Response<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The IEEE 802.11 Key 
  Configuration Response CAPWAP message is sent by the WTP to the AC as an 
  acknowledgement of the receipt of an IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Request. 
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">----XXXX----<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><BR>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 03 14:26:11 2006
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: "Bob O'Hara (boohara)" <boohara@cisco.com>,
	Dorothy Stanley <DStanley@arubanetworks.com>,
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Bob,

I created item 76 as a bug.

Cheers,

	Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@cisco.com] 
> Sent: March 3, 2006 1:02 PM
> To: Michael Montemurro; Dorothy Stanley; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Subject: RE: Bindings issue
> 
> Mike,
> 
> Nope.  Issue 74 looks like it has the right title. But, it 
> doesn't deal with the issue I raised, at all.
> 
> 
>  -Bob
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Montemurro [mailto:michael.montemurro@siemens.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:16 AM
> To: Bob O'Hara (boohara); Dorothy Stanley; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Subject: RE: Bindings issue
> 
> Bob,
> 
> I took a look. Didn't Pat create issue 74 to deal with this. 
> It looks like it was created on February 15.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 	Mike 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@cisco.com]
> > Sent: March 3, 2006 11:00 AM
> > To: Michael Montemurro; Dorothy Stanley; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > Subject: Bindings issue
> > 
> > I raised an issue about the lack of a mechanism to include bindings 
> > other than 802.11 in CAPWAP nearly two weeks ago.
> > It has generated some small amount of discussion on the list. 
> >  Even the AD contributed.  Yet, the issue has not been added to the 
> > issues tracker.
> > 
> > Will you please add this to the bug portion of the tracker database?
> > Thank you.
> > 
> >  -Bob
> > 
> > Bob O'Hara
> > Cisco Systems - WNBU
> > 
> > Phone:  +1 408 853 5513
> > Mobile: +1 408 218 4025
> >  
> > 
> 
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Bindings issue
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:17:20 -0800
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>,
	"Bob O'Hara (boohara)" <boohara@cisco.com>
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I feel like 256 for IETF is not sufficient. I think some alternative is
required to allow for standards to have a much larger address space.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins@dsperkins.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 2:23 PM
> To: Bob O'Hara (boohara)
> Cc: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] Bindings issue
>=20
> HI,
>=20
> Glad to see you bring up this topic. The eval report=20
> suggested that the numbering space of the attributes (called=20
> information elements in the LWAPP spec) be increased from 8=20
> bits (see section 9.1.1). Note that also that it appears to=20
> me that numbering space for message types is limited to 8=20
> bits and there is not a way to add vendor extensions.
> (And it looks to be an oversight that there was no mention of=20
> who (such as IANA) that manages this space.) The LWAPP spec=20
> for attributes does allow vendor additions (see section=20
> 4.2.2.1.1). However, it is quite wasteful of space, and=20
> suprisingly has a 16-bit space for vendor attributes (element=20
> IDs). Note LWAPP identifies vendors by the IANA enterprise=20
> number, which is also used by SNMP.
> In the SNMPv3 RFCs, the enterprise number is used in one case=20
> for a security model identifier, which is a 32-bit integer in=20
> range (0 .. 2147483647).=20
> (See RFC 3411, section 5, discussion of textual convention=20
> SnmpSecurityModel). The identifier is the enterprise number=20
> multiplied by 256 (that is, shifted left by 8 bits), plus an=20
> enterprise specific value.
> Since there is no assignment of 0 as an enterprise number,=20
> values less than 256 are IANA controlled.
> This scheme supports enterprise number of upto
> 23 bits (that is values upto 8,388,608 enterprises).
>=20
> Given the suggestion of the eval team, and Bob's input below,=20
> I suggest that the number space for message types and=20
> information element types be encoded as the following:
>  1) it be a 32 bit unsigned number
>  2) it is encoded as enterprise number times 256
>     plus enterprise value.
>  3) the values less than 256 be managed by IANA
>  4) an appropriate enterprise value be choosen
>     for each technology and managed either
>     by an IEEE group (or IANA)
>=20
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Bob O'Hara (boohara) wrote:
> > I believe there is an issue we need to address before the=20
> -00 draft is=20
> > produced.  This relates to the decision by the working=20
> group that the=20
> > original CAPWAP protocol would restrict itself to supporting only=20
> > 802.11, but would provide extensibility to support other wireless=20
> > protocols.  This support for extensibility is insufficient in the=20
> > LWAPP draft and, without direction from the working group, from the=20
> > -00 CAPWAP draft as well.
> >=20
> > In the current draft of the LWAPP proposal, all message element=20
> > identifiers in the protocol are drawn from a single, 16-bit, number=20
> > space.  This does not provide for parallel development of=20
> bindings for=20
> > different protocols or an unambiguous way to allocate these=20
> > identifiers without some central administration of the=20
> entire message=20
> > identifier number space.
> >=20
> > I propose that we add a binding identifier to each message element.
> > This identifier would, in the -00 draft, place each message element=20
> > into either the "base protocol" number space or the "IEEE 802.11"=20
> > number space.  It would also allow for reuse of the values in the=20
> > message identifier field.
> >=20
> > Alternatively, we could create a "Binding Separator"=20
> message element.
> > This element would separate message elements in the base portion of=20
> > the protocol from those defined in a binding.  The value carried by=20
> > the separator would identify the specific binding for the elements=20
> > that follow the separator, either to the next separator=20
> element or to=20
> > the end of the packet.
> >=20
> > Either alternative for this proposal would require=20
> administration of=20
> > the binding identifier number space.  But, that number space would=20
> > most likely last much longer than the message identifier space,=20
> > itself, if left as a single common number space for all=20
> bindings to share.
> >=20
> >  -Bob
> >=20
> > Bob O'Hara
> > Cisco Systems - WNBU
> >=20
> > Phone:  +1 408 853 5513
> > Mobile: +1 408 218 4025
> Regards,
> /david t. perkins
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
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>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Support NAT..
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I, and my customers, feel that NAT traversal is mandatory. No, there are
some customers that do not have VPNs, but these deployments do typically
perform local bridging, so latency, jitter (and such) does not affect
the quality of the service delivered. If local bridging is performed,
the STA is assigned an IP address in the branch office. If tunneling is
mandatory, then the STA is assigned an IP address on a subnet accessible
by the AC.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sadot, Emek (Emek) [mailto:esadot@avaya.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 12:10 PM
> To: David T. Perkins
> Cc: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Support NAT..
>=20
> David Hi,
>=20
> Forcing an Enterprise customer strive for centralized WLAN=20
> architecture to place an AC at each branch office, or for=20
> that matter placing AC at each Service Provider customer is=20
> IMHO more then a bit problematic.
>=20
> Your 4 points pertain to control functionalities (vs. data),=20
> thus latency, jitter, packet drop, etc. is probably a=20
> non-issue with a remote AC, though fast roaming might need a=20
> special consideration.
>=20
> A separate geographic areas might be a valuable notion,=20
> although I'm not sure I see the difference between remote=20
> site (WTP behind NAT) and different floors, buildings, etc.=20
> at the same geographical domain, thus the same NAT side, as the AC.
>=20
> I'm not religious. If the group feels that supporting NAT=20
> traversal is pointless - then let's please hear it.
>=20
> Regards,
> Emek=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins@dsperkins.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 12:07 PM
> To: Sadot, Emek (Emek)
> Cc: ArchanaSuresh; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Support NAT..
>=20
> HI,
>=20
> It looks like progress is being made on some of the technical=20
> issues, but no one has yet addressed the alternative of=20
> placing an AC on the same side of the NAT as the WTPs.
>=20
> The CAPWAP protocol includes:
>  1) AC discovery,
>  2) WTP system image transfer from the AC to the WTP
>  3) STA authentication and authorization at the AC
>  4) roaming of STAs from one WTP to another (in real time
>     if you want to support Voice over 802.11)
>=20
> Will you have the needed bandwidth, latency, jitter, and=20
> packet drop characteristics if ACs and WTPs are configured as=20
> described in the previous messages on this thread?
>=20
> Also, unless I've missed it, the current version of the=20
> CAPWAP protocol does not have the capability of indicating=20
> that groups of WTPs are in separate geographic areas (lets=20
> call them, "a WiFi cloud"). It is desirable that an AC=20
> coordinate the WTPs in a WiFi cloud so that compatable=20
> channel and power configurations are made and these be=20
> updated as conditions change.
> And in follow-on versions of CAPWAP, that compatable rogue=20
> detection and countermeasures be applied to WiFi clouds.=20
>=20
> It really seems like the scenarios described on this thread=20
> are NOT CAPWAP technology, but instead are coordinated standalone APs.
>=20
> Finally, I do believe that this discussion is productive, and=20
> I believe that we need to have more of it with written=20
> findings before trying to go forward with finalizing the=20
> CAPWAP proto document.
> I suggest that we have a "terminology and scenario"
> session on Sunday afternoon and/or evening at the start of=20
> the IETF conference.
>=20
> Regards,
> /david t. perkins
>=20
> On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Sadot, Emek (Emek) wrote:
> > I think the answer you are looking for in (1) is that the AC must=20
> > refrain from uniquely identified the WTP by the IP and Port=20
> pair. WTP=20
> > shall be uniquely identified by - MAC address, serial number for=20
> > example
> > - and the AC shall map the control session and data=20
> sessions 5-tuples=20
> > to that identifier.
> >=20
> > The WTP shall send (dummy) packet on behalf of a STA to the AC with=20
> > its unique identifier to allow the AC to identify the WTP=20
> and sets up=20
> > WTP 5-tuple to identifier mapping. Note, that until such mapping is=20
> > established, downstream data packets cannot reach their destination.
> >=20
> > Regards,
> > Emek
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ArchanaSuresh [mailto:archanas@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:24 AM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: [Capwap] Support NAT..
> >=20
> > Hi All,
> >=20
> > Considering we use two separate ports for control tunnel=20
> and 2 APs are
>=20
> > behind the NAT.
> >=20
> > Cp - lwapp control port & Dp - lwapp data port Ip1, Ip2,=20
> Ip3 - local=20
> > IP address at AP1 , AC, NAT device respectively Np1, Np2, -=20
> New ports=20
> > used on NAT
> >=20
> > When a Ctrl packet goes from AP1 to AC.
> > 	Src <Ip1,Cp> --- Dst <Ip2,Cp>
> > NAT binding for  <Ip1,Cp>
> > 	Src <Ip3,Np1> --- Dst <Ip2,Cp>
> > At the AC
> > The AP1 identifier is <Ip3, Np1>
> >=20
> > When a Data packet goes from AP1 to AC.
> > 	Src <Ip1, Dp> --- Dst <Ip2, Dp>
> > NAT binding to  <Ip1, Dp>
> > 		Src <Ip3,Np2> --- Dst <Ip2, Dp>
> > At the AC
> > 	The AP1 identifier is <Ip3, Np2>
> >=20
> > Question 1:
> > How will AC understand the source tuple  for AP1's data packet <Ip3,
> > Np1>  is the same for <Ip3, Np2>  ??
> > How/When should AC relate these two to belong to AP1 ?
> >=20
> > Question 2:
> > What happens in a case when a data packet first needs to go=20
> from the=20
> > AC to AP1.
> > There is no nat entry for the data path as yet.
> >=20
> > Regards,
> > Archana Suresh
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:29 AM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: [Capwap] One issue "In order to support NAT, I=20
> recommend that
>=20
> > LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and Data Tunnel"
> >=20
> > Dear all:
> >=20
> >   I recommend that LWAPP only support one UDP port for=20
> Control tunnel=20
> > and Data Tunnel.
> >=20
> >   LWAPP protocol uses UDP packets, so that it can directly=20
> support NAT
>=20
> > passthrough.
> >=20
> >   One basic scenario is that WTP is behind NAT device and AC is in=20
> > public network. For control tunnel, there are no problem.=20
> Because it=20
> > is initiated by WTP, NAT device can create corresponding table for=20
> > LWAPP control tunnel packets.
> >=20
> >   The problems is:
> >=20
> >    1. The data packets can not be firstly sent from AC to WTP.
> >=20
> >    2. Even if WTP firstly sends pacekts, AC can get the=20
> corresponding=20
> > control tunnel with this LWAPP data tunnel based on the packets.
> > Because in one NAT device, there may be multiple WTP. All WTP's IP=20
> > addresses are same which is NAT device global IP address,=20
> and AC can=20
> > not know the data packets belonging to which AP.
> >=20
> >=20
> > Best regards
> > Yujin Zhao
> > H3Com
> >=20
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >=20
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >=20
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >=20
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >=20
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >=20
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >=20
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11i - Encryption
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11i - Encryption
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Michael Montemurro" <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>,
	"Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
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Michael, the GTK is sent in the IEEE 802.11 Update WLAN.
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Michael Montemurro [mailto:michael.montemurro@siemens.com]

	Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 6:55 AM
	To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11i - Encryption
=09
=09
	Saravanan,
	=20
	It looks to me that some of this functionality is captured in
the Add Mobile message description in section 11.7.1.
	Could you take a look at that section an suggest how it could be
modified? Or do you feel that we need to define a new message.
	=20
	However I don't see what message would be used to transport a
new GTK once it has been generated by the AC.
	=20
	Cheers,
	=20
	    Mike


________________________________

		From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
		Sent: March 3, 2006 5:25 AM
		To: capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11i - Encryption
	=09
	=09

		All,

		=20

		For the IEEE 802.11 binding, the protocol deals with
split-MAC and local-MAC architectures. For both types, there is the
design case of having encryption at the WTP and authenticator at the AC.
This design case is a mandatory requirement from the Objectives. I think
there was a discussion about this in the last meeting.=20

		=20

		I suggest adding new Key Configuration & Key
Configuration Response messages to 11.8 "802.11 Control Messages" in the
IEEE 802.11 bindings section and describing the exchange in new
subsections 11.8.4 to 11.8.5.

		=20

		The suggested text follows;

		=20

		=20

		=20

		----0000----

		11.8.4      IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration

		=20

		The IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration CAPWAP message is used
in WTP designs in which IEEE 802.11i authenticator functions are
performed by the AC and IEEE 802.11i cryptographic functions
(encryption/decryption) are performed by the WTPs.=20

		=20

		This CAPWAP message is sent from the AC to the WTP. It
must contain either of the following 2 message elements.=20

		=20

		=20

		=20

		=20

		11.8.4.1     IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake

		=20

		The IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake message element is sent
by the AC to the WTP during the 4-way handshake. It contains Message-3
of the 4-way handshake with unassigned values as the AC is unaware of
the prevailing KeyRSC sequence counter maintained by the WTP. =20

		=20

		Message-1, Message-2 and Message-4 of the 4-way
handshake are transported within CAPWAP data packets between AC and WTP.


		=20

		The IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake message element contains
the following values:

		=20

		=20

		      0                   1                   2
3

		      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 0 1

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

		     |    GTK-Flag   |                   Reserved
|

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

		     |                        Encryption-Data
|

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

		     |                          EAPoL-Frame
|

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

		=20

		=20

		GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag that determines the type of
KeyMIC calculation

		    =20

		     0 - New GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC =3D 0

		=20

		     1 - Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with
prevailing KeyRSC value

		=20

		Encryption-Data: Contains PTK and/or GTK

		=20

		EAPoL-Frame: Contains Message-3 of 4-way handshake with
unassigned fields

		=20

		Upon receipt of the Key Configuration message from the
AC, the WTP performs the following operations:

		=20

		    i.            Assigns the corresponding value to the
KeyRSC field of the EAPoL-Frame=20

		ii.            Calculates KeyMIC with Encrytion-Data and
KeyRSC

		iii.            Updates Message-3 of 4-way handshake

		iv.            Continues regular 4-way handshake with
wireless terminals

		=20

		=20

		=20

		=20

		11.8.4.2     IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake

		=20

		The IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake message element is
sent by the AC to the WTP during the group key handshake. It contains
Message-1 of the group key handshake with unassigned values as the AC is
unaware of the prevailing KeyRSC sequence counter maintained by the WTP.


		=20

		Message-2 of the group key handshake is transported
within a CAPWAP data packet between AC and WTP.=20

		=20

		The IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake message element
contains the following values:

		=20

		      0                   1                   2
3

		      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 0 1

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

		     |    GTK-Flag   |                   Reserved
|

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

		     |                        Encryption-Data
|

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

		     |                          EAPoL-Frame
|

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

		=20

		=20

		GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag that determines the type of
KeyMIC calculation

		    =20

		     0 - New GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC =3D 0

		=20

		     1 - Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with
prevailing KeyRSC value

		=20

		Encryption-Data: Contains PTK and/or GTK

		=20

		EAPoL-Frame: Contains Message-1 of group key handshake
with unassigned fields

		=20

		Upon receipt of the Key Configuration message from AC,
the WTP performs the following operations:

		    i.            Assigns the corresponding value to the
KeyRSC field of the EAPoL-Frame=20

		ii.            Calculates KeyMIC with Encrytion-Data and
KeyRSC

		iii.            Updates Message-1 of group key handshake

		iv.            Continues regular group handshake with
wireless terminals

		=20

		=20

		=20

		=20

		11.8.5     IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Response

		=20

		The IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Response CAPWAP
message is sent by the WTP to the AC as an acknowledgement of the
receipt of an IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Request.=20

		=20

		----XXXX----

		=20

		=20

	=09
		Saravanan


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<DIV><SPAN class=3D317502623-04032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Michael, the GTK is sent in the IEEE 802.11 Update=20
WLAN.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
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  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Michael Montemurro=20
  [mailto:michael.montemurro@siemens.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March =
03,=20
  2006 6:55 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Saravanan Govindan;=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11i -=20
  Encryption<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D376464614-03032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Saravanan,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D376464614-03032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D376464614-03032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It looks to me that some of this =
functionality is=20
  captured in the Add Mobile message description in section=20
  11.7.1.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D376464614-03032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Could you take a look at that section an =
suggest how it=20
  could be modified? Or do you feel that we need to define a new=20
  message.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D376464614-03032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D376464614-03032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>However I don't see what message would be =
used to=20
  transport a new GTK once it has been generated by=20
  the&nbsp;AC.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D376464614-03032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D376464614-03032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D376464614-03032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN =
class=3D376464614-03032006>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  <FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Mike</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
    <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan=20
    [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> March =
3, 2006=20
    5:25 AM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Capwap] IEEE=20
    802.11i - Encryption<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DSection1>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">All,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">For the =
IEEE 802.11=20
    binding, the protocol deals with split-MAC and local-MAC =
architectures. For=20
    both types, there is the design case of having encryption at the WTP =
and=20
    authenticator at the AC. This design case is a mandatory requirement =
from=20
    the Objectives. I think there was a discussion about this in the =
last=20
    meeting. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">I suggest =
adding new=20
    Key Configuration &amp; Key Configuration Response messages to 11.8 =
&#8220;802.11=20
    Control Messages&#8221; in the IEEE 802.11 bindings section and =
describing the=20
    exchange in new subsections 11.8.4 to =
11.8.5.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The =
suggested text=20
    follows;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">----0000----<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">11.8.4=20
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IEEE 802.11 Key=20
    Configuration<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The IEEE =
802.11 Key=20
    Configuration CAPWAP message is used in WTP designs in which IEEE =
802.11i=20
    authenticator functions are performed by the AC and IEEE 802.11i=20
    cryptographic functions (encryption/decryption) are performed by the =
WTPs.=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">This CAPWAP =
message=20
    is sent from the AC to the WTP. It must contain either of the =
following 2=20
    message elements. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">11.8.4.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The IEEE =
802.11 4-way=20
    Handshake message element is sent by the AC to the WTP during the =
4-way=20
    handshake. It contains Message-3 of the 4-way handshake with =
unassigned=20
    values as the AC is unaware of the prevailing KeyRSC sequence =
counter=20
    maintained by the WTP. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Message-1, =
Message-2=20
    and Message-4 of the 4-way handshake are transported within CAPWAP =
data=20
    packets between AC and WTP. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The IEEE =
802.11 4-way=20
    Handshake message element contains the following=20
    values:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    3<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0=20
    1<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    |&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;GTK-Flag&nbsp; &nbsp;|=20
    =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reserved&nbsp;=20
    =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Encryption-Data&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN><=
/FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;EAPoL-Frame=20
    =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">GTK-Flag: =
An 8-bit=20
    flag that determines the type of KeyMIC=20
    calculation<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    0 &#8211; New GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC =3D=20
    0<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    1 &#8211; Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing KeyRSC=20
    value<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">Encryption-Data:=20
    Contains PTK and/or GTK<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">EAPoL-Frame: Contains=20
    Message-3 of 4-way handshake with unassigned=20
    fields<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Upon =
receipt of the=20
    Key Configuration message from the AC, the WTP performs the =
following=20
    operations:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P=20
    style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: =
-0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: =
-.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT=20
    face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D1><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</SPAN></FONT>i.<FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D1><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
    </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face=3D"Lucida =
Console"=20
    size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">Assigns=20
    the corresponding value to the KeyRSC field of the EAPoL-Frame=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P=20
    style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: =
-0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: =
-.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT=20
    face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">ii.<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D1><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
    </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face=3D"Lucida =
Console"=20
    size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Calculates =
KeyMIC=20
    with Encrytion-Data and KeyRSC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P=20
    style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: =
-0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: =
-.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT=20
    face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">iii.<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D1><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
    </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face=3D"Lucida =
Console"=20
    size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">Updates=20
    Message-3 of 4-way handshake<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P=20
    style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: =
-0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: =
-.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT=20
    face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">iv.<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D1><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
    </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face=3D"Lucida =
Console"=20
    size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Continues =
regular=20
    4-way handshake with wireless terminals<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">11.8.4.2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The IEEE =
802.11 Group=20
    Key Handshake message element is sent by the AC to the WTP during =
the group=20
    key handshake. It contains Message-1 of the group key handshake with =

    unassigned values as the AC is unaware of the prevailing KeyRSC =
sequence=20
    counter maintained by the WTP. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Message-2 =
of the=20
    group key handshake is transported within a CAPWAP data packet =
between AC=20
    and WTP. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The IEEE =
802.11 Group=20
    Key Handshake message element contains the following=20
    values:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    3<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0=20
    1<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    |&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;GTK-Flag&nbsp; &nbsp;|=20
    =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reserved&nbsp;=20
    =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Encryption-Data&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN><=
/FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;EAPoL-Frame=20
    =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">GTK-Flag: =
An 8-bit=20
    flag that determines the type of KeyMIC=20
    calculation<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    0 &#8211; New GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC =3D=20
    0<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    1 &#8211; Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing KeyRSC=20
    value<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">Encryption-Data:=20
    Contains PTK and/or GTK<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">EAPoL-Frame: Contains=20
    Message-1 of group key handshake with unassigned=20
    fields<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Upon =
receipt of the=20
    Key Configuration message from AC, the WTP performs the following=20
    operations:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P=20
    style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: =
-0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: =
-.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><FONT=20
    face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D1><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</SPAN></FONT>i.<FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D1><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
    </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face=3D"Lucida =
Console"=20
    size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">Assigns=20
    the corresponding value to the KeyRSC field of the EAPoL-Frame=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P=20
    style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: =
-0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: =
-.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><FONT=20
    face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">ii.<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D1><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
    </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face=3D"Lucida =
Console"=20
    size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Calculates =
KeyMIC=20
    with Encrytion-Data and KeyRSC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P=20
    style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: =
-0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: =
-.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><FONT=20
    face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">iii.<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D1><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
    </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face=3D"Lucida =
Console"=20
    size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">Updates=20
    Message-1 of group key handshake<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P=20
    style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: =
-0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-text-indent-alt: =
-.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><FONT=20
    face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">iv.<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D1><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
    </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><FONT face=3D"Lucida =
Console"=20
    size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Continues =
regular=20
    group handshake with wireless terminals<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">11.8.5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Response<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The IEEE =
802.11 Key=20
    Configuration Response CAPWAP message is sent by the WTP to the AC =
as an=20
    acknowledgement of the receipt of an IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration =
Request.=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'">----XXXX----<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida =
Console'"><BR>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11i - Encryption
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:39:27 +0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11i - Encryption
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Hi Mike,

I should have read better!

=20

Based on the Mobile Config Request message you pointed out (Section
11.7.1), an alternative to the suggestion below would be to include just
the message elements below;

=20

- IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake

- IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake

=20

These message elements could then be used with the Mobile Config Request
message in cases where the WTP handles IEEE 802.11i
encryption/decryption and the AC handles the Authenticator functions.


Cheers,


Saravanan

=20

=20

=20

=20

________________________________

From: Michael Montemurro [mailto:michael.montemurro@siemens.com]=20
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:55 PM
To: Saravanan Govindan; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11i - Encryption

=20

Saravanan,

=20

It looks to me that some of this functionality is captured in the Add
Mobile message description in section 11.7.1.

Could you take a look at that section an suggest how it could be
modified? Or do you feel that we need to define a new message.

=20

However I don't see what message would be used to transport a new GTK
once it has been generated by the AC.

=20

Cheers,

=20

    Mike

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
	Sent: March 3, 2006 5:25 AM
	To: capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: [Capwap] IEEE 802.11i - Encryption

	All,

	=20

	For the IEEE 802.11 binding, the protocol deals with split-MAC
and local-MAC architectures. For both types, there is the design case of
having encryption at the WTP and authenticator at the AC. This design
case is a mandatory requirement from the Objectives. I think there was a
discussion about this in the last meeting.=20

	=20

	I suggest adding new Key Configuration & Key Configuration
Response messages to 11.8 "802.11 Control Messages" in the IEEE 802.11
bindings section and describing the exchange in new subsections 11.8.4
to 11.8.5.

	=20

	The suggested text follows;

	=20

	=20

	=20

	----0000----

	11.8.4      IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration

	=20

	The IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration CAPWAP message is used in WTP
designs in which IEEE 802.11i authenticator functions are performed by
the AC and IEEE 802.11i cryptographic functions (encryption/decryption)
are performed by the WTPs.=20

	=20

	This CAPWAP message is sent from the AC to the WTP. It must
contain either of the following 2 message elements.=20

	=20

	=20

	=20

	=20

	11.8.4.1     IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake

	=20

	The IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake message element is sent by the
AC to the WTP during the 4-way handshake. It contains Message-3 of the
4-way handshake with unassigned values as the AC is unaware of the
prevailing KeyRSC sequence counter maintained by the WTP. =20

	=20

	Message-1, Message-2 and Message-4 of the 4-way handshake are
transported within CAPWAP data packets between AC and WTP.=20

	=20

	The IEEE 802.11 4-way Handshake message element contains the
following values:

	=20

	=20

	      0                   1                   2
3

	      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 0 1

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

	     |    GTK-Flag   |                   Reserved
|

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

	     |                        Encryption-Data
|

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

	     |                          EAPoL-Frame
|

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

	=20

	=20

	GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag that determines the type of KeyMIC
calculation

	    =20

	     0 - New GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC =3D 0

	=20

	     1 - Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing
KeyRSC value

	=20

	Encryption-Data: Contains PTK and/or GTK

	=20

	EAPoL-Frame: Contains Message-3 of 4-way handshake with
unassigned fields

	=20

	Upon receipt of the Key Configuration message from the AC, the
WTP performs the following operations:

	=20

	    i.            Assigns the corresponding value to the KeyRSC
field of the EAPoL-Frame=20

	ii.            Calculates KeyMIC with Encrytion-Data and KeyRSC

	iii.            Updates Message-3 of 4-way handshake

	iv.            Continues regular 4-way handshake with wireless
terminals

	=20

	=20

	=20

	=20

	11.8.4.2     IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake

	=20

	The IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake message element is sent by
the AC to the WTP during the group key handshake. It contains Message-1
of the group key handshake with unassigned values as the AC is unaware
of the prevailing KeyRSC sequence counter maintained by the WTP. =20

	=20

	Message-2 of the group key handshake is transported within a
CAPWAP data packet between AC and WTP.=20

	=20

	The IEEE 802.11 Group Key Handshake message element contains the
following values:

	=20

	      0                   1                   2
3

	      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 0 1

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

	     |    GTK-Flag   |                   Reserved
|

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

	     |                        Encryption-Data
|

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

	     |                          EAPoL-Frame
|

=09
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

	=20

	=20

	GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag that determines the type of KeyMIC
calculation

	    =20

	     0 - New GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC =3D 0

	=20

	     1 - Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing
KeyRSC value

	=20

	Encryption-Data: Contains PTK and/or GTK

	=20

	EAPoL-Frame: Contains Message-1 of group key handshake with
unassigned fields

	=20

	Upon receipt of the Key Configuration message from AC, the WTP
performs the following operations:

	    i.            Assigns the corresponding value to the KeyRSC
field of the EAPoL-Frame=20

	ii.            Calculates KeyMIC with Encrytion-Data and KeyRSC

	iii.            Updates Message-1 of group key handshake

	iv.            Continues regular group handshake with wireless
terminals

	=20

	=20

	=20

	=20

	11.8.5     IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Response

	=20

	The IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Response CAPWAP message is
sent by the WTP to the AC as an acknowledgement of the receipt of an
IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Request.=20

	=20

	----XXXX----

	=20

	=20

=09
	Saravanan


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi Mike,<br>
<br>
I should have read better!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Based on the Mobile Config Request message you =
pointed out (Section
11.7.1), an alternative to the suggestion below would be to include just =
the
message elements below;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>- IEEE 802.11 4-way =
Handshake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>- IEEE 802.11 Group Key =
Handshake</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>These message elements could then be used with the =
Mobile
Config Request message in cases where the WTP handles IEEE 802.11i
encryption/decryption and the AC handles the Authenticator =
functions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
Michael
Montemurro [mailto:michael.montemurro@siemens.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, March 03, =
2006 10:55
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Saravanan
 Govindan</st1:PersonName>; capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Capwap] =
IEEE 802.11i
- Encryption</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Saravanan,</span></font><o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>It looks to me that some of this =
functionality
is captured in the Add Mobile message description in section =
11.7.1.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Could you take a look at that =
section an
suggest how it could be modified? Or do you feel that we need to define =
a new
message.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>However I don't see what message =
would be
used to transport a new GTK once it has been generated by =
the&nbsp;AC.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Cheers,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Mike</span></font=
><o:p></o:p></p>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Saravanan Govindan</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> March 3, 2006 5:25 =
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Capwap] IEEE =
802.11i -
Encryption</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>For the IEEE 802.11 binding, the =
protocol
deals with split-MAC and local-MAC architectures. For both types, there =
is the
design case of having encryption at the WTP and authenticator at the AC. =
This
design case is a mandatory requirement from the Objectives. I think =
there was a
discussion about this in the last meeting. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>I suggest adding new Key =
Configuration
&amp; Key Configuration Response messages to 11.8 &#8220;802.11 Control
Messages&#8221; in the IEEE 802.11 bindings section and describing the =
exchange
in new subsections 11.8.4 to 11.8.5.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The suggested text =
follows;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>----0000----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>11.8.4 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
IEEE
802.11 Key Configuration<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration =
CAPWAP
message is used in WTP designs in which IEEE 802.11i authenticator =
functions
are performed by the AC and IEEE 802.11i cryptographic functions
(encryption/decryption) are performed by the WTPs. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>This CAPWAP message is sent from =
the AC to
the WTP. It must contain either of the following 2 message elements. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>11.8.4.1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
IEEE
802.11 4-way Handshake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The IEEE 802.11 =
4-way
Handshake message element is sent by the AC to the WTP during the 4-way
handshake. It contains Message-3 of the 4-way handshake with unassigned =
values
as the AC is unaware of the prevailing KeyRSC sequence counter =
maintained by
the WTP. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Message-1, =
Message-2 and
Message-4 of the 4-way handshake are transported within CAPWAP data =
packets
between AC and WTP. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The IEEE 802.11 =
4-way
Handshake message element contains the following =
values:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;GTK-Flag&nbsp; &nbsp;|
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reserved&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Encryption-Data&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;EAPoL-Frame
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag that =
determines
the type of KeyMIC calculation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0 &#8211; =
New
GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC =3D 0<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 &#8211;
Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing KeyRSC =
value<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Encryption-Data: Contains PTK =
and/or GTK<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>EAPoL-Frame: Contains Message-3 of =
4-way
handshake with unassigned fields<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Upon receipt of =
the Key
Configuration message from the AC, the WTP performs the following =
operations:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>i.</span></font><font
size=3D1><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Assigns the corresponding value to the =
KeyRSC
field of the EAPoL-Frame <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=3D2
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>ii.</span></font><font
size=3D1><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Calculates KeyMIC with Encrytion-Data and =
KeyRSC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=3D2
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>iii.</span></font><font
size=3D1><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Updates Message-3 of 4-way =
handshake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=3D2
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>iv.</span></font><font
size=3D1><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Continues regular 4-way handshake with =
wireless
terminals<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>11.8.4.2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
IEEE
802.11 Group Key Handshake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The IEEE 802.11 =
Group Key
Handshake message element is sent by the AC to the WTP during the group =
key
handshake. It contains Message-1 of the group key handshake with =
unassigned
values as the AC is unaware of the prevailing KeyRSC sequence counter
maintained by the WTP. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Message-2 of the =
group
key handshake is transported within a CAPWAP data packet between AC and =
WTP. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The IEEE 802.11 =
Group Key
Handshake message element contains the following =
values:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;GTK-Flag&nbsp; &nbsp;| =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reserved&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Encryption-Data&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;EAPoL-Frame
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>GTK-Flag: An 8-bit flag that =
determines
the type of KeyMIC calculation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0 &#8211; =
New
GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with KeyRSC =3D 0<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 &#8211;
Existing GTK, KeyMIC is calculated with prevailing KeyRSC =
value<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Encryption-Data: Contains PTK =
and/or GTK<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>EAPoL-Frame: Contains Message-1 of =
group
key handshake with unassigned fields<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Upon receipt of =
the Key
Configuration message from AC, the WTP performs the following =
operations:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>i.</span></font><font
size=3D1><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Assigns the corresponding value to the =
KeyRSC
field of the EAPoL-Frame <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=3D2
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>ii.</span></font><font
size=3D1><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Calculates KeyMIC with Encrytion-Data and =
KeyRSC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=3D2
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>iii.</span></font><font
size=3D1><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Updates Message-1 of group key =
handshake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin=
-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=3D2
face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>iv.</span></font><font
size=3D1><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Continues regular group handshake with =
wireless
terminals<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>11.8.5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IEEE =
802.11
Key Configuration Response<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>The IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration =
Response
CAPWAP message is sent by the WTP to the AC as an acknowledgement of the
receipt of an IEEE 802.11 Key Configuration Request. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>----XXXX----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><br>
Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</blockquote>

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Hi All,

=20

Based on feedback from the Chairs, this is an update to the responses
for the IESG review. Your comments/acceptance would be much appreciated.


Cheers,


Saravanan

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Brian Carpenter's Review:

=20

1. Section: 5.1.8 CAPWAP Protocol Security, Protocol Requirement

=20

Comment:=20

"Does that [secured] mean encrypted or integrity-protected?"

=20

Original text:=20

"The CAPWAP protocol MUST support mutual authentication of WTPs and the
centralized controller.  It must also ensure that information exchanges
between them are secured."

=20

Suggested new text: From Charles Clancy -=20

"The CAPWAP protocol MUST support mutual authentication of WTPs and the
centralized controller. It also MUST ensure that information exchanges
are integrity protected, and SHOULD ensure confidentiality through
encryption."

--XX--

=20

=20

2. Section: 5.1.9 System-wide Security, Protocol Requirement

=20

Comment:=20

"Strange phrasing" of requirement

=20

Original text:
 "The design of the CAPWAP protocol MUST NOT allow for any compromises
to the WLAN system by external entities."

=20

Suggested new text:=20

No new text is suggested. Clarification on the requirement is provided
below.

=20

Clarification: From Mani -=20

The intent [of the requirement] was to emphasize that the protocol MUST
not introduce additional threats weakening the security of WLAN system.
CAPWAP protocol by itself is not intended to and cannot protect against
all compromises to the WLAN system which is broader than the scope of
the protocol.

--XX-

=20

=20

3. Section: 5.1.12 Protocol Specifications

=20

Comment:=20

"Since this is a basic requirement of all IETF standards, why is it
listed?"

=20

Original text:=20
"Any WTP or WLAN controller vendor or any person MUST be able to
implement the CAPWAP protocol from the specification itself and by that
it is required that all such implementations do interoperate."
=20

Suggested new text:=20

No new text is suggested. Clarification on the need for this objective
is provided below.

=20
Clarification:=20
This objective arose during discussions on the scope of the CAPWAP
protocol in managing WLAN systems. The intent was to highlight the
'completeness' of protocol in terms of achieving its interoperability
goals.
--XX-
=20
=20
4. Section: 5.2 Desirable Objectives
=20
Comment:=20
"Why aren't the items in this section listed as SHOULD instead of MUST?"
=20
Original text:
Protocol Requirements for all objectives categorized as Desirable
Objectives include those in subsections 5.2.1 through 5.2.5.=20
=20

Suggested new text:=20

No new text is suggested. Clarification on the need for this objective
is provided below.

=20
Clarification:=20
The Desirable Objectives as a category can be listed as 'SHOULD'.
However, the individual objectives that make up the category are still
'MUST', because they represent mandatory operations for the protocol -
provided that the protocol chooses to realize a Desirable Objective.
--XX-
=20
=20
=20
Sam Hartman's Review
=20
=20
5. Section: 5.1.8 CAPWAP Protocol Security, Description
=20
Comment:=20
"Section 5.1.8 implies that an authenticated key exchange is optional. I
think that BCP 107 will require an authenticated key exchange for this
protocol."
=20
Original text: (Last paragraph of Description)
"CAPWAP MUST NOT prevent the use of asymmetric authentication. The
security considerations of such asymmetric authentication are described
in the Security Considerations section."
=20
Suggested new text: From Charles Clancy [To be inserted after
above-paragraph of original text] -=20
"If the CAPWAP protocol meets the criteria to require automated key
management per BCP 107, then mutual authentication MUST be accomplished
via an authenticated key exchange."
=20
Suggested new text:=20
Add reference to BCP 107.
--XX-
=20
=20
6. Section: 5.1.8 CAPWAP Protocol Security, Description, Paragraph 5
=20
Comment:=20
In the following text, please describe what security services are meant;
probable services include integrity and confidentiality.
=20
> Once WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually authenticated,
information exchanges between them
> must be secured against various security threats.
=20
Original text:
Once WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually authenticated,
information exchanges between them must be secured against various
security threats.
=20
Suggested text: From Charles Clancy-=20
"Once WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually authenticated,
information exchanges between them must be secured against various
security threats. So the CAPWAP protocol MUST provide
integrity-protection and replay-protection. The protocol SHOULD provide
confidentiality through encryption."
--XX-
=20
=20
7. Section: 5 Objectives, Introduction
=20
Comment:=20
"The introduction to section 5 implies that operator requirements are
valued less than non-objectives.  I don't think that is the message the
IETF wants to send to the operator community."
=20
Original text:
"The objectives described in this document have been prioritized based
on their immediate significance in the development and evaluation of a
control and provisioning protocol for large-scale WLAN deployments.
Additionally, one category is provided for requirements gathered from
network service operators.  These are specific need that arise from
operators' experiencese in deploying and managing large-scale WLANs. The
priorities are;
=20
   i.  Mandatory and Accepted Objectives
   ii.  Desirable Objectives
   iii.  Non-Objectives
   iv.  Operator Requirements
=20
The priorities have been assigned to individual objectives in accordance
with working group discussions."
=20
=20
Suggested new text:=20
"The objectives described in this document have been prioritized based
on their immediate significance in the development and evaluation of a
control and provisioning protocol for large-scale WLAN deployments.
=20
The priorities are;
=20
i.  Mandatory and Accepted Objectives
ii.  Desirable Objectives
iii.  Non-Objectives
=20
The priorities have been assigned to individual objectives in accordance
with working group discussions.
=20
Furthermore, a distinct category of objectives is provided based on
requirements gathered from network service operators.  These are
specific needs that arise from operators' experiences in deploying and
managing large-scale WLANs.
=20
a. Operator Requirements"
=20
=20
--XX-
=20
=20
=20

=20

=20

=20


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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Based on feedback from the Chairs, this is an update =
to the
responses for the IESG review. Your comments/acceptance would be much
appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Brian Carpenter&#8217;s =
Review:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>1. Section: 5.1.8 CAPWAP Protocol Security, Protocol
Requirement<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Comment: <font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&#8220;Does that [secured] mean encrypted or
integrity-protected?&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Original text: <font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&quot;The CAPWAP protocol MUST support mutual =
authentication
of WTPs and the centralized controller.&nbsp; It must also ensure that
information exchanges between them are =
secured.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Suggested new text: From Charles Clancy &#8211; <font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&#8220;The CAPWAP protocol MUST support mutual =
authentication
of WTPs and the centralized controller. It also MUST ensure that =
information
exchanges are integrity protected, and SHOULD ensure confidentiality =
through
encryption.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>--XX--<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>2. Section: 5.1.9 System-wide Security, Protocol =
Requirement<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Comment: <font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&#8220;Strange phrasing&#8221; of =
requirement<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Original text:<font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></pre><pre><f=
ont
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> &#8220;The design of the =
CAPWAP protocol MUST NOT allow for any compromises to the WLAN system by =
external entities.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Suggested new text: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>No new text is suggested. Clarification on the =
requirement is
provided below.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Clarification: From Mani &#8211; <font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>T</span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>he intent [of the =
requirement]<font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'> </span></font>was to emphasize =
that the
protocol MUST not introduce additional threats weakening the security of =
WLAN
system. CAPWAP protocol by itself is not intended to and cannot protect =
against
all compromises to the WLAN system which is broader than the scope of =
the
protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>--XX&#8212;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>3. Section: 5.1.12 Protocol =
Specifications<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Comment: <font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&#8220;Since this is a basic requirement of all IETF
standards, why is it listed?&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Original text: <font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></pre><pre><f=
ont
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8220;Any WTP or WLAN =
controller vendor or any person MUST be able to implement the CAPWAP =
protocol from the specification itself and by that it is required that =
all such implementations do =
interoperate.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Suggested new text: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>No new text is suggested. Clarification on the need =
for this
objective is provided below.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><=
font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Clarification: <font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></pre><pre><f=
ont
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>This objective arose during =
discussions on the scope of the CAPWAP protocol in managing WLAN =
systems. The intent was to highlight the 'completeness' of protocol in =
terms of achieving its interoperability =
goals.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>--XX&#8212;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>4. Section: 5.2 Desirable =
Objectives<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Comment: <font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></pre><pre><f=
ont
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8220;Why aren't the items =
in this section listed as SHOULD instead of =
MUST?&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Original =
text:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Protocol Requirements for =
all objectives categorized as Desirable Objectives include those in =
subsections 5.2.1 through 5.2.5. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Suggested new text: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>No new text is suggested. Clarification on the need =
for this
objective is provided below.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><=
font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Clarification: <font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></pre><pre><f=
ont
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The Desirable Objectives as =
a category can be listed as 'SHOULD'. However, the individual objectives =
that make up the category are still 'MUST', because they represent =
mandatory operations for the protocol - provided that the protocol =
chooses to realize a Desirable =
Objective.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>--XX&#8212;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Sam Hartman&#8217;s =
Review<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>5. Section: 5.1.8 CAPWAP =
Protocol Security, Description<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Comment: =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8220;Section 5.1.8 =
implies that an authenticated key exchange is optional. I think that BCP =
107 will require an authenticated key exchange for this =
protocol.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Original text: (Last =
paragraph of Description)<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8220;CAPWAP MUST NOT =
prevent the use of asymmetric authentication. The security =
considerations of such asymmetric authentication are described in the =
Security Considerations =
section.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Suggested new text: From =
Charles Clancy [To be inserted after above-paragraph of original text] =
&#8211; <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8220;If the CAPWAP =
protocol meets the criteria to require automated key management per BCP =
107, then mutual authentication MUST be accomplished via an =
authenticated key =
exchange.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Suggested new text: =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Add<font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'> </span></font>reference to BCP =
107<font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'>.</span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><=
font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>--XX&#8212;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>6. Section: 5.1.8 CAPWAP =
Protocol Security, Description, Paragraph =
5<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Comment: <font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></pre><pre><f=
ont
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>In the following text, =
please describe what security services are meant; probable services =
include integrity and =
confidentiality.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&gt; Once WTPs and WLAN =
controller have been mutually authenticated, information exchanges =
between them<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&gt; must be secured =
against various security =
threats.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Original =
text:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Once WTPs and WLAN =
controller have been mutually authenticated, information exchanges =
between them must be secured against various security =
threats.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Suggested text: From =
Charles Clancy- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&quot;Once WTPs and WLAN =
controller have been mutually authenticated, information exchanges =
between them must be secured against various security threats. So the =
CAPWAP protocol MUST provide integrity-protection and replay-protection. =
The protocol SHOULD provide confidentiality through =
encryption.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>--XX&#8212;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>7. Section: 5 Objectives, =
Introduction<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Comment: =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8220;The introduction to =
section 5 implies that operator requirements are valued less than =
non-objectives.&nbsp; I don't think that is the message the IETF wants =
to send to the operator =
community.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Original =
text:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8220;The objectives =
described in this document have been prioritized based on their =
immediate significance in the development and evaluation of a control =
and provisioning protocol for large-scale WLAN deployments. =
Additionally, one category is provided for requirements gathered from =
network service operators.&nbsp; These are specific need that arise from =
operators' experiencese in deploying and managing large-scale WLANs. The =
priorities are;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp; i.&nbsp; =
Mandatory and Accepted =
Objectives<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp; ii.&nbsp; =
Desirable Objectives<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp; iii.&nbsp; =
Non-Objectives<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp; iv.&nbsp; =
Operator Requirements<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The priorities have been =
assigned to individual objectives in accordance with working group =
discussions.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Suggested new text: =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8220;The objectives =
described in this document have been prioritized based on their =
immediate significance in the development and evaluation of a control =
and provisioning protocol for large-scale WLAN =
deployments.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The priorities =
are;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>i.&nbsp; Mandatory and =
Accepted Objectives<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ii.&nbsp; Desirable =
Objectives<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>iii.&nbsp; =
Non-Objectives<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The priorities have been =
assigned to individual objectives in accordance with working group =
discussions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Furthermore, a distinct =
category of objectives is provided based on requirements gathered from =
network service operators.&nbsp; These are specific need<font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'>s</span></font> that arise from =
operators' experiences in deploying and managing large-scale =
WLANs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a. Operator =
Requirements&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>--XX&#8212;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

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-----Original Message-----
From: sujathav [mailto:sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 11:04 AM
To: 'capwap@frascone.com'
Subject: 802.11 Specific - no result code for WLAN config command


 Hi,

   1.  I found that in the CAPWAP specification, the WLAN configuration
request sent from the AC to the WTP is acked
by the WLAN Configuration Response. This Message does not have any message
elements.
And I presume it is sent irrespective of success / failure of configuration.

 Can we have the Radio Id , WLAN ID and Success Code Message Elements (tlvs)
to be sent
as part of WLAN Configure Response ? ?If not, is there any other means of
finding out
if my WLAN Configuration (Add / Update / Delete ) succeeded or not?

 2. The WTP Radio Information that lists the Radio type and Id is part of
the Discovery Request.
It is not sent as part of any Message after that.
 But since the AC does not keep any state for a Discovery Request,
the AC does not remember it. I assume that without knowing the Radio type,
the AC would not be able to
configure the WTP. I suggest we add Radio Type TLV to the Configure Request,
to avoid this.



Thanks

Sujatha V


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 Hi,

   1.  I found that in the CAPWAP specification, the WLAN configuration
request sent from the AC to the WTP is acked
by the WLAN Configuration Response. This Message does not have any message
elements.
And I presume it is sent irrespective of success / failure of configuration.

 Can we have the Radio Id , WLAN ID and Success Code Message Elements (tlvs)
to be sent
as part of WLAN Configure Response ? ?If not, is there any other means of
finding out
if my WLAN Configuration (Add / Update / Delete ) succeeded or not?

 2. The WTP Radio Information that lists the Radio type and Id is part of
the Discovery Request.
It is not sent as part of any Message after that.
 But since the AC does not keep any state for a Discovery Request,
the AC does not remember it. I assume that without knowing the Radio type,
the AC would not be able to
configure the WTP. I suggest we add Radio Type TLV to the Configure Request,
to avoid this.



Thanks

Sujatha V


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Hi,

=20

After reading the CAPWAP protocol specification, I have two questions to
ask.

=20

1)       In page 13, on the state machine, after the DTLS-Complete,
there are two states named Configure and Image Data. It is not very
clear on what basis will the protocol transverse from the DTLS-complete
to the Configure state or to the Image Data state. What information is
required for the protocol to choose between the two transitions?
Appreciate some enlightenment here.

2)       In Section 5.2.5 WTP Manager Control, I understand that there
is some load balancing functionality from the message element. However,
I only see a WTP count and several IP addresses. Are these information
sufficient as decision-making factors for a WTP to perform load
balancing?

=20

Appreciate any reply.

=20

Thanks and regards

Richard Gwee



Republic Polytechnic, 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, Singapore 738964 (Near =
Woodlands MRT/Interchange)
. www.rp.sg . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20

Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>After reading the CAPWAP protocol specification, I =
have two
questions to ask.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>In page =
13,
on the state machine, after the DTLS-Complete, there are two states =
named
Configure and Image Data. It is not very clear on what basis will the =
protocol
transverse from the DTLS-complete to the Configure state or to the Image =
Data
state. What information is required for the protocol to choose between =
the two
transitions? Appreciate some enlightenment here.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>In =
Section
5.2.5 WTP Manager Control, I understand that there is some load =
balancing
functionality from the message element. However, I only see a WTP count =
and
several IP addresses. Are these information sufficient as =
decision-making
factors for a WTP to perform load balancing?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Appreciate any reply.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks and regards</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Richard Gwee</span></font></p>

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 Hi,

   1.  I found that in the CAPWAP specification, the WLAN configuration
request sent from the AC to the WTP is acked
by the WLAN Configuration Response. This Message does not have any message
elements.
And I presume it is sent irrespective of success / failure of configuration.

 Can we have the Radio Id , WLAN ID and Success Code Message Elements (tlvs)
to be sent
as part of WLAN Configure Response ? ?If not, is there any other means of
finding out
if my WLAN Configuration (Add / Update / Delete ) succeeded or not?

 2. The WTP Radio Information that lists the Radio type and Id is part of
the Discovery Request.
It is not sent as part of any Message after that.
 But since the AC does not keep any state for a Discovery Request,
the AC does not remember it. I assume that without knowing the Radio type,
the AC would not be able to
configure the WTP. I suggest we add Radio Type TLV to the Configure Request,
to avoid this.



Thanks

Sujatha V


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Sujatha,
The first point you have mentioned could  be addressed thus;

Send WLAN Configuration reponse only when the operation is 
successful.Using the sequence number in the request packet you should be
able identify
which WLAN configuration request has failed and thus the Radio ID. WLAN
Id etc.


Second point;

(In the expired lwapp-03.txt this message was being sent in the Join
Request Message,
not so in the current.)

It could be handled in two ways;
1. the AC should not send the Discovery Response if it is unable to
configure the WTP
With its given WTP radio information, that automatically means the
ClientHello SHOULD
not be expected from the that non-supported WTP.

2. It could be added as a part of the 802.11 binding message, IEEE
802.11 WTP WLAN Radio Configuration,
message another "Radio Type". 


Any comments?

Regards,
Sujay

My Location;
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=14.626109,76.959229&spn=4.724852,7.525085
&t=h&hl=en




 Hi,

   1.  I found that in the CAPWAP specification, the WLAN configuration
request sent from the AC to the WTP is acked by the WLAN Configuration
Response. This Message does not have any message elements. And I presume
it is sent irrespective of success / failure of configuration.

 Can we have the Radio Id , WLAN ID and Success Code Message Elements
(tlvs) to be sent as part of WLAN Configure Response ? ?If not, is there
any other means of finding out if my WLAN Configuration (Add / Update /
Delete ) succeeded or not?

 2. The WTP Radio Information that lists the Radio type and Id is part
of the Discovery Request. It is not sent as part of any Message after
that.  But since the AC does not keep any state for a Discovery Request,
the AC does not remember it. I assume that without knowing the Radio
type, the AC would not be able to configure the WTP. I suggest we add
Radio Type TLV to the Configure Request, to avoid this.



Thanks

Sujatha V


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From: sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com
To: "'sujay'" <sujayg@huawei.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] FW: 802.11 Specific - no result code for WLAN
	configcommand
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:59:51 +0530
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Sujay
 Thanks a lot  for the response.

I am afraid I still find that point 1  cannot be addressed this way .
If  a WTP  does not send the Wlan configure response because the
Configuration
did not succeed , it would be
mis-construed by the AC , as channel failure to deliver the message after a
few retries.
I am saying this based on my reading of Run To Idle state transition
definition.

As a result, the NeighborDead Activities will start on the AC side. So I
think we will
need to send the response from the WTP irrespective of failure / success.
That is
why I thought we could have the success code TLV added to the WLAN Configure
response.
And just to make an implementation easy, I threw in Radio ID and WLAN ID
also ;-)

Regarding point no 2 , The Radio type cannot be binding specific , in fact
it may be the
one that decides the bindings to be used. So we need a plcae holder for it
in a non-Binding
specific area . Do I make sense ?

Thanks
Sujatha V




-----Original Message-----
From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:41 PM
To: sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] FW: 802.11 Specific - no result code for WLAN
configcommand


Sujatha,
The first point you have mentioned could  be addressed thus;

Send WLAN Configuration reponse only when the operation is
successful.Using the sequence number in the request packet you should be
able identify
which WLAN configuration request has failed and thus the Radio ID. WLAN
Id etc.


Second point;

(In the expired lwapp-03.txt this message was being sent in the Join
Request Message,
not so in the current.)

It could be handled in two ways;
1. the AC should not send the Discovery Response if it is unable to
configure the WTP
With its given WTP radio information, that automatically means the
ClientHello SHOULD
not be expected from the that non-supported WTP.

2. It could be added as a part of the 802.11 binding message, IEEE
802.11 WTP WLAN Radio Configuration,
message another "Radio Type".


Any comments?

Regards,
Sujay

My Location;
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=14.626109,76.959229&spn=4.724852,7.525085
&t=h&hl=en




 Hi,

   1.  I found that in the CAPWAP specification, the WLAN configuration
request sent from the AC to the WTP is acked by the WLAN Configuration
Response. This Message does not have any message elements. And I presume
it is sent irrespective of success / failure of configuration.

 Can we have the Radio Id , WLAN ID and Success Code Message Elements
(tlvs) to be sent as part of WLAN Configure Response ? ?If not, is there
any other means of finding out if my WLAN Configuration (Add / Update /
Delete ) succeeded or not?

 2. The WTP Radio Information that lists the Radio type and Id is part
of the Discovery Request. It is not sent as part of any Message after
that.  But since the AC does not keep any state for a Discovery Request,
the AC does not remember it. I assume that without knowing the Radio
type, the AC would not be able to configure the WTP. I suggest we add
Radio Type TLV to the Configure Request, to avoid this.



Thanks

Sujatha V


_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap

Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap


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Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:27:04 +0530
From: sujay <sujayg@huawei.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] FW: 802.11 Specific - no result code for WLAN
	configcommand
In-reply-to: <000a01c64292$da761cf0$1471cb0a@asia.ad.flextronics.com>
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Correct ,with the given protocol, yes it will be an issue of non
reception of an ack 
taken as channel down event.
Again you could avoid this for the Add WLAN messages, ie have an
exception.
Else as you suggest add a Status Code! Or a Vendor Specific element.
Then again there is no point of the Radio ID and WLAN ID as the message
sequence number
is intact.
Another way, I recall there was a thread on a "Get WLAN config" ,
message requirement.
It is being tracked at;
http://capwap.org/cgi-bin/roundup/CAPWAP/index Issue no 72.
This message  could be used for verification.

I would recomment both the Get WLAN message as well as the Result Code
Element in the response.
Still better to have a re-usable message type exclusively for Result
Code which 
could be used across.


Radio Type- if getting lost after Discovery Request, should be repeated
in 
the configure request message.
Which doesn't  make sense ! 

One solution is to store the context received in the Discovery Request
message
that again implies some changes in the SM .
Else avoid sending Discovery Response messages if the Radio cannot be
supported.


Request the authors to comment.

Regds,
Sujay
My Location;
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=14.626109,76.959229&spn=4.724852,7.525085
&t=h&hl=en








-----Original Message-----
From: sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com
[mailto:sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:00 PM
To: 'sujay'; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] FW: 802.11 Specific - no result code for WLAN
configcommand


Sujay
 Thanks a lot  for the response.

I am afraid I still find that point 1  cannot be addressed this way . If
a WTP  does not send the Wlan configure response because the
Configuration did not succeed , it would be mis-construed by the AC , as
channel failure to deliver the message after a few retries. I am saying
this based on my reading of Run To Idle state transition definition.

As a result, the NeighborDead Activities will start on the AC side. So I
think we will need to send the response from the WTP irrespective of
failure / success. That is why I thought we could have the success code
TLV added to the WLAN Configure response. And just to make an
implementation easy, I threw in Radio ID and WLAN ID also ;-)

Regarding point no 2 , The Radio type cannot be binding specific , in
fact it may be the one that decides the bindings to be used. So we need
a plcae holder for it in a non-Binding specific area . Do I make sense ?

Thanks
Sujatha V




-----Original Message-----
From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:41 PM
To: sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] FW: 802.11 Specific - no result code for WLAN
configcommand


Sujatha,
The first point you have mentioned could  be addressed thus;

Send WLAN Configuration reponse only when the operation is
successful.Using the sequence number in the request packet you should be
able identify which WLAN configuration request has failed and thus the
Radio ID. WLAN Id etc.


Second point;

(In the expired lwapp-03.txt this message was being sent in the Join
Request Message, not so in the current.)

It could be handled in two ways;
1. the AC should not send the Discovery Response if it is unable to
configure the WTP With its given WTP radio information, that
automatically means the ClientHello SHOULD not be expected from the that
non-supported WTP.

2. It could be added as a part of the 802.11 binding message, IEEE
802.11 WTP WLAN Radio Configuration, message another "Radio Type".


Any comments?

Regards,
Sujay

My Location;
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=14.626109,76.959229&spn=4.724852,7.525085
&t=h&hl=en




 Hi,

   1.  I found that in the CAPWAP specification, the WLAN configuration
request sent from the AC to the WTP is acked by the WLAN Configuration
Response. This Message does not have any message elements. And I presume
it is sent irrespective of success / failure of configuration.

 Can we have the Radio Id , WLAN ID and Success Code Message Elements
(tlvs) to be sent as part of WLAN Configure Response ? ?If not, is there
any other means of finding out if my WLAN Configuration (Add / Update /
Delete ) succeeded or not?

 2. The WTP Radio Information that lists the Radio type and Id is part
of the Discovery Request. It is not sent as part of any Message after
that.  But since the AC does not keep any state for a Discovery Request,
the AC does not remember it. I assume that without knowing the Radio
type, the AC would not be able to configure the WTP. I suggest we add
Radio Type TLV to the Configure Request, to avoid this.



Thanks

Sujatha V


_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap

Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap


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Saravanan has posted the proposed changes to Objectives draft - in
response to the DISCUSSes and COMMENTs from IESG.

=20

We think the changes are benign editorial and/or technical
clarifications and not require another draft-revision.

We intend to submit the text clarifications to the ADs (to IESG) after
Friday (3/10/06). Do let us know if you have any concerns, comments by
then.

=20

Regards,

-mani & Dorothy


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Saravanan has posted the proposed changes to =
Objectives
draft &#8211; in response to the DISCUSSes and COMMENTs from =
IESG.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>We think the changes are benign editorial and/or =
technical clarifications
and not require another draft-revision.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>We intend to submit the text clarifications to the =
ADs (to
IESG) after Friday (3/10/06). Do let us know if you have any concerns, =
comments
by then.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>-mani &amp; Dorothy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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A tentative agenda has been posted for CAPWAP session on 3/20/06 in
IETF65: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06mar/agenda/capwap.htm

Tentative Agenda (2 hour session):

1. WG status, Milestones, Issue Tracker, Protocol Draft Status: 10 min.
2. IEEE Liaison Update - Dorothy Stanley (5 min.)
3. CAPWAP protocol -00 draft and Issues Discussion: Editor(s) - 30min
4. CAPWAP Protocol concerns: (Richard Gwee): 15 min
5. CAPWAP Protocol applicability to WiMAX (Parviz Yegani): 15min.
6. CAPWAP security Discussions: (TBD) 15 min
7. MIB updates - Dave Perkins (5 min.)


Comments welcome.

One presentation we had to cut short in IETF64 is back here - Parviz's
CAPWAP applicability to WiMAX.
Richard Gwee wishes to present what he feels are some specific basic
issues/concerns about CAPWAP protocol.

We have buffer time to make room for anticipated overruns in some agenda
items.

[Named Presenters - please send in their materials well ahead of time -
especially to let remote participants be prepared well - preferably
anytime from now to before Wednesday the 15th].

-mani & Dorothy

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This is in response to question 1 in Richard's email, and question 2 in
Sujatha's email: I think the two are related.

=20

> sujatha.varadarajan wrote:

=20

<trimmed unrelated question...>=20

=20

> 2. The WTP Radio Information that lists the Radio type and Id is part
of

> the Discovery Request.

> It is not sent as part of any Message after that.

> But since the AC does not keep any state for a Discovery Request,

> the AC does not remember it. I assume that without knowing the Radio
type,

> the AC would not be able to

> configure the WTP. I suggest we add Radio Type TLV to the Configure

> Request,

> to avoid this.

>=20

=20

> Richard Gwee wrote:

=20

<trimmed unrelated question...>=20

=20

>  In page 13, on the state machine, after the DTLS-Complete, there are
two states named

>  Configure and Image Data. It is not very clear on what basis will the
protocol transverse

>  from the DTLS-complete to the Configure state or to the Image Data
state. What information

>  is required for the protocol to choose between the two transitions?
Appreciate some=20

>  enlightenment here

=20

Basically, these problems are the result of removing the Join request. I
think one solution resolves both of these: add the relevant fields from
the Join-Request to the Configure-Request, and move the image-data
transition so that you must go into configure state first. Perhaps a
little less confusing way to put this is as follows: *always* go from
DTLS-Complete to Configure; put all required data in the configure
exchange, and if necessary, go from Configure to Image-Data.

=20

Scott

=20

________________________________

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. www.rp.sg <http://www.rp.sg>  . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>This is =
in
response to question 1 in Richard&#8217;s email, and question 2 in =
Sujatha&#8217;s
email: I think the two are related.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&gt; sujatha.varadarajan wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&lt;trimmed unrelated question&#8230;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&gt; 2. The WTP Radio Information that lists the Radio type and =
Id is
part of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&gt; the Discovery Request.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&gt; It is not sent as part of any Message after =
that.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&gt; But since the AC does not keep any state for a Discovery =
Request,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&gt; the AC does not remember it. I assume that without knowing =
the
Radio type,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&gt; the AC would not be able to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&gt; configure the WTP. I suggest we add Radio Type TLV to the
Configure<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&gt; Request,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&gt; to avoid this.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>&gt; =
Richard Gwee
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>&lt;trimmed unrelated question&#8230;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&nbsp; In page 13, on the state machine, =
after
the DTLS-Complete, there are two states =
named<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt; &nbsp;Configure and Image Data. It is =
not very
clear on what basis will the protocol =
transverse<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt; &nbsp;from the DTLS-complete to the =
Configure
state or to the Image Data state. What =
information<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&nbsp; is required for the protocol to =
choose
between the two transitions? Appreciate some =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&nbsp; enlightenment =
here</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New";
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
color:navy'>Basically, these problems are the result of removing the =
Join
request. </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>I think one solution resolves both of =
these:
add the relevant fields from the Join-Request to the Configure-Request, =
and
move the image-data transition so that you must go into configure state =
first.
Perhaps a little less confusing way to put this is as follows: *always* =
go from
DTLS-Complete to Configure; put all required data in the configure =
exchange,
and if necessary, go from Configure to =
Image-Data.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Scott<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:20:00 -0600
From: Behcet Sarikaya <behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Capwap] Handover issue
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Dear all,
  I would like to raise this issue within the framework of the draft we 
submitted to CAPWAP. I already raised it with the chairs.
  The issue is whether roaming/ handover is within the scope of CAPWAP.
I checked with the latest protocol spec :
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-specification-00.txt
in Sec. 11.2 there is a discussion of roaming stations.
  If the roaming is out of scope, I suggest that all roaming references 
be removed from the spec and this issue be left to further work.
  If the roaming is in the scope then I'll appreciate comments on our draft
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sarikaya-capwap-capwaphp-01.txt
which presents a more comprehensive solution.
Regards,

--behcet
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Handover issue
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Behcet Sarikaya" <sarikaya@ieee.org>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Behcet,

I haven't had a chance to read your specification, but I do plan to.
Having said that, I don't believe that removal of any mention of roaming
be removed from the capwap spec, and my product appears to provide
roaming services using the spec as currently published. Perhaps there
are optimizations that you are looking to create, which I will let the
chairs determine whether it is in scope or not, but the protocol as it
stands does provide roaming services.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 11:20 AM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Handover issue
>=20
> Dear all,
>   I would like to raise this issue within the framework of=20
> the draft we submitted to CAPWAP. I already raised it with the chairs.
>   The issue is whether roaming/ handover is within the scope=20
> of CAPWAP.
> I checked with the latest protocol spec :
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-capwap-protocol
> -specification-00.txt
> in Sec. 11.2 there is a discussion of roaming stations.
>   If the roaming is out of scope, I suggest that all roaming=20
> references be removed from the spec and this issue be left to=20
> further work.
>   If the roaming is in the scope then I'll appreciate=20
> comments on our draft=20
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sarikaya-capwap-capw
> aphp-01.txt
> which presents a more comprehensive solution.
> Regards,
>=20
> --behcet
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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Very Readable -- some minor comments

Page 33 -- Section 5.1 -- 5th paragraph

If a Discovery Response .... equal to SilentInterval before sending 
further Discovery Request messages.

change to
If a Discovery Response .... equal to SilentInterval before returning 
to the ide stand and sending further Discovery Request messages.


Section 5.1.5 WTP Frame Type -- Page 37 - Local Bridging

What do the frames look like -- do not understand what is sent or received.

Page 51 -- Top of Page -- Secton 7.3.2

cause repeated twice -- delete 1st reference



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Subject: [Capwap] Handover issue
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Dear all,
  It seems that any WTP to AC (which is a Layer 3 entity) is within the 
scope and this involves the roaming related exchanges WTP and AC would have.
  The chairs asked me to invite people to spare some comments, so here 
are some points.
  The draft on CAPWAPHP:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sarikaya-capwap-capwaphp-01.txt
handles handovers in such a way that in most cases the handover is 
anchored at the AC. As you can see from the scenarios for local and 
split MAC WTPs, most of the exchanges involve WTP and AC. CAPWAPHP 
features include:
- designed to be integrated into CAPWAP protocol
- STA context transfers using RFC 4067 needed for local MAC WTPs
- L2 Update frames needed for DS
- ensures that STA is associated with a single WTP
the last two unnecessitates 802.11f which is now defunct.
  So, in short, the draft is in scope, but maybe I am biased?
 
  Kind regards,

--behcet
 


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Dear all,<br>
&nbsp; It seems that any WTP to AC (which is a Layer 3 entity) is within the
scope and this involves the roaming related exchanges WTP and AC would
have.<br>
&nbsp; The chairs asked me to invite people to spare some comments, so here
are some points.<br>
&nbsp; The draft on CAPWAPHP:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sarikaya-capwap-capwaphp-01.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sarikaya-capwap-capwaphp-01.txt</a><br>
handles handovers in such a way that in most cases the handover is
anchored at the AC. As you can see from the scenarios for local and
split MAC WTPs, most of the exchanges involve WTP and AC. CAPWAPHP
features include: <br>
- designed to be integrated into CAPWAP protocol<br>
- STA context transfers using RFC 4067 needed for local MAC WTPs<br>
- L2 Update frames needed for DS <br>
- ensures that STA is associated with a single WTP<br>
the last two unnecessitates 802.11f which is now defunct.<br>
&nbsp; So, in short, the draft is in scope, but maybe I am biased?<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; Kind regards,<br>
<br>
--behcet<br>
&nbsp; <br>
<blockquote
 cite="midFA00572E7C7F3D4692A8987213A7892C0D4A4E37@cof110avexu1.global.avaya.com"
 type="cite">
  <div class="Section1">
  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font color="black"
 face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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Hi Scott, 
 Thanks for the response.
 I agree  that if we add all the relevant Message Elements to Configure
Request, my problem will be solved.
 
The suggested Message Elements from Join Request to be added to the
Configure Request are 
1. WTP name - this is the way the WTP identifies itself to the AC.
2.WTP descriptor  - the AC should know the encryption capabilities of the
WTP 
3.Location Data 
4. WTP radio information - radio type and radio id 
 
But I am not sure if this will solve Richard's Problem . I was under the
assumption that the  WTP should use the
AC Descriptor (Firmware Version/ SW version etc) to make that decision. The
AC descriptor is part of the 
Discovery REsponse from the AC to the WTP. 
 
Thanks again 
Sujatha 

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kelly [mailto:skelly@arubanetworks.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:18 AM
To: Richard Gwee; capwap@frascone.com;
sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification



This is in response to question 1 in Richard's email, and question 2 in
Sujatha's email: I think the two are related.

 

> sujatha.varadarajan wrote:

 

<trimmed unrelated question...> 

 

> 2. The WTP Radio Information that lists the Radio type and Id is part of

> the Discovery Request.

> It is not sent as part of any Message after that.

> But since the AC does not keep any state for a Discovery Request,

> the AC does not remember it. I assume that without knowing the Radio type,

> the AC would not be able to

> configure the WTP. I suggest we add Radio Type TLV to the Configure

> Request,

> to avoid this.

> 

 

> Richard Gwee wrote:

 

<trimmed unrelated question...> 

 

>  In page 13, on the state machine, after the DTLS-Complete, there are two
states named

>  Configure and Image Data. It is not very clear on what basis will the
protocol transverse

>  from the DTLS-complete to the Configure state or to the Image Data state.
What information

>  is required for the protocol to choose between the two transitions?
Appreciate some 

>  enlightenment here

 

Basically, these problems are the result of removing the Join request. I
think one solution resolves both of these: add the relevant fields from the
Join-Request to the Configure-Request, and move the image-data transition so
that you must go into configure state first. Perhaps a little less confusing
way to put this is as follows: *always* go from DTLS-Complete to Configure;
put all required data in the configure exchange, and if necessary, go from
Configure to Image-Data.

 

Scott

 



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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Mar 13 11:23:41 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:22:35 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification
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From: "Scott Kelly" <skelly@arubanetworks.com>
To: <sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com>,
	"Richard Gwee" <richard_gwee@rp.sg>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Comments inline below...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com
> [mailto:sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:58 PM
> To: Scott Kelly; 'Richard Gwee'; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification
>=20
> Hi Scott,
>  Thanks for the response.
>  I agree  that if we add all the relevant Message Elements to
Configure
> Request, my problem will be solved.
>=20
> The suggested Message Elements from Join Request to be added to the
> Configure Request are
> 1. WTP name - this is the way the WTP identifies itself to the AC.
> 2.WTP descriptor  - the AC should know the encryption capabilities of
the
> WTP
> 3.Location Data
> 4. WTP radio information - radio type and radio id
>=20
> But I am not sure if this will solve Richard's Problem . I was under
the
> assumption that the  WTP should use the
> AC Descriptor (Firmware Version/ SW version etc) to make that
decision.
> The AC descriptor is part of the
> Discovery REsponse from the AC to the WTP.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding Richard's complaint. I thought he was
concerned about the ambiguity as to how the AC knows which state to
transition to, and that this ambiguity arose due to the fact that with
the join removed, the AC has no idea which is appropriate - firmware
upgrade vs configuration.=20

I guess the question is, who makes the decision about the necessity of
firmware upgrade: the AC or the WTP? You seem to indicate it should be
the WTP, but I've been thinking it should be the AC. If this is correct,
then placing the fields you've described above into the configure
exchange resolve this. Am I missing something?

Scott

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Mar 13 16:40:53 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Handover issue
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:40:25 -0700
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Handover issue
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From: "Mani, Mahalingam (Mani)" <mmani@avaya.com>
To: "Behcet Sarikaya" <sarikaya@ieee.org>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Behcet,

CAPWAP does not decide how to roam but tells how the CAPWAP specifies
division of labor between WTP and AC in course of BSS transitions. Hence
section 11.2 is in scope.

The charter or agreed architectural objectives does not include context
transfers by CAPWAP between 'AP's - except: much of the context of
conventional AP is now already resident in AC and changes the scope of
an "inter-AP" transfer.

AC-AC context transfer also remains out of scope - though it is a worthy
problem as well for mobility considerations.

Your draft's overview section says
"For both Local and Split MAC WTPs, authentication is based on IEEE
   802.11i.  Full 802.11i authentication is carried for the first time
   association of the stations.  CAPWAPHP transfers AAA context to the
   neighbor Local MAC WTPs so that when the station reassociates with a
   neighbor WTP, only 4-way handshake of 802.11i authentication can be
   carried."

The relevance of this to the follow-up 802.11r and subsequent local-MAC
division of labor changes quite a bit. 802.11r optimizes intra-ESS
security transitions (and some related contexts) and is about to resolve
how to do so in the backend. It does not amount to plain context
transfer - but (security)context-derivation for the target and that too
not necessarily from deleted-mobile to added-mobile.

We have suggested pursuing discussions on the list as well to gauge WG
opinion if this draft shows up required functionality missing from what
is already provided.

If time permits (earlier agenda items do not eat up available time) - we
should be able to accommodate a short presentation at IETF65.

Regards,
-mani
-----Original Message-----
From: Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 11:20 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Handover issue

Dear all,
  I would like to raise this issue within the framework of the draft we=20
submitted to CAPWAP. I already raised it with the chairs.
  The issue is whether roaming/ handover is within the scope of CAPWAP.
I checked with the latest protocol spec :
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-capwap-protocol-specifica
tion-00.txt
in Sec. 11.2 there is a discussion of roaming stations.
  If the roaming is out of scope, I suggest that all roaming references=20
be removed from the spec and this issue be left to further work.
  If the roaming is in the scope then I'll appreciate comments on our
draft
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sarikaya-capwap-capwaphp-01.tx
t
which presents a more comprehensive solution.
Regards,

--behcet
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification
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From: "Richard Gwee" <richard_gwee@rp.sg>
To: "Scott Kelly" <skelly@arubanetworks.com>,
	<sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Hi Scott,

Thanks for the email. My "complaint" is about the ambiguity which is
your initial understanding. You have not misunderstood my meaning in the
first place :). However, you did raise a valid point in who determine
the necessity to upgrade the firmware. My opinion all the while is that
the decision making should lies with the AC.

Hi Sujatha,

Thanks for the email reply. The AC descriptor you mentioned does contain
some value on the hardware and software version. Unfortunately, the
draft specification does not seem to indicate clearly on how these
values are to be used in answering my question. Perhaps some
confirmation from others rather than we assume?

Thanks and Regards
Richard=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kelly [mailto:skelly@arubanetworks.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:23 AM
To: sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com; Richard Gwee;
capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification

Comments inline below...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com
> [mailto:sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:58 PM
> To: Scott Kelly; 'Richard Gwee'; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification
>=20
> Hi Scott,
>  Thanks for the response.
>  I agree  that if we add all the relevant Message Elements to
Configure
> Request, my problem will be solved.
>=20
> The suggested Message Elements from Join Request to be added to the
> Configure Request are
> 1. WTP name - this is the way the WTP identifies itself to the AC.
> 2.WTP descriptor  - the AC should know the encryption capabilities of
the
> WTP
> 3.Location Data
> 4. WTP radio information - radio type and radio id
>=20
> But I am not sure if this will solve Richard's Problem . I was under
the
> assumption that the  WTP should use the
> AC Descriptor (Firmware Version/ SW version etc) to make that
decision.
> The AC descriptor is part of the
> Discovery REsponse from the AC to the WTP.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding Richard's complaint. I thought he was
concerned about the ambiguity as to how the AC knows which state to
transition to, and that this ambiguity arose due to the fact that with
the join removed, the AC has no idea which is appropriate - firmware
upgrade vs configuration.=20

I guess the question is, who makes the decision about the necessity of
firmware upgrade: the AC or the WTP? You seem to indicate it should be
the WTP, but I've been thinking it should be the AC. If this is correct,
then placing the fields you've described above into the configure
exchange resolve this. Am I missing something?

Scott



Republic Polytechnic, 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, Singapore 738964 (Near =
Woodlands MRT/Interchange)
. www.rp.sg . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20

Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully =
adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to =
strive towards best practices and maintain excellence in service =
standards with the following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class =
(SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and =
QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of =
the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains =
information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of =
this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not =
disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received =
this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return =
email and delete the original message. Thank you. =20


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From: bharanidharan.indrababu@flextronicssoftware.com
To: "'Richard Gwee'" <richard_gwee@rp.sg>,
	"'Scott Kelly'" <skelly@arubanetworks.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:38:48 +0530
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Hi 

There is a mismatch in the information in the specification.

(a)
In Section 2.2 (CAPWAP state machine)

Run to Run(r): 
in WTP: 
Echo Request: The WTP receives an Echo Request message (see
            Section 6.1), to which it MUST respond with an Echo Response
            message(see Section 6.2).
Here it is mentioned  as WTP RECEIVES Echo Request and WTP has to send Echo
Response.


(b)In section 12 CAPWAP protocol timers 
  
   12.3.  NeighborDeadInterval

   The minimum time, in seconds, a WTP MUST wait without having received
   Echo Responses to its Echo Requests, before the destination for the
   Echo Request may be considered dead.  Must be no less than
   2*EchoInterval seconds and no greater than 240 seconds.

   12.5.  EchoInterval

   The minimum time, in seconds, between sending echo requests to the AC
   with which the WTP has joined.

   Here it is mentioned as WTP SENDS the Echo Request. 
     

  Please do the necessary changes in the spec.

Thanks and Regards
Bharani

***************************************


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 March 2006 11:59 AM
To: Scott Kelly; sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com;
capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification


Hi Scott,

Thanks for the email. My "complaint" is about the ambiguity which is
your initial understanding. You have not misunderstood my meaning in the
first place :). However, you did raise a valid point in who determine
the necessity to upgrade the firmware. My opinion all the while is that
the decision making should lies with the AC.

Hi Sujatha,

Thanks for the email reply. The AC descriptor you mentioned does contain
some value on the hardware and software version. Unfortunately, the
draft specification does not seem to indicate clearly on how these
values are to be used in answering my question. Perhaps some
confirmation from others rather than we assume?

Thanks and Regards
Richard 

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kelly [mailto:skelly@arubanetworks.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:23 AM
To: sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com; Richard Gwee;
capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification

Comments inline below...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com
> [mailto:sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:58 PM
> To: Scott Kelly; 'Richard Gwee'; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification
> 
> Hi Scott,
>  Thanks for the response.
>  I agree  that if we add all the relevant Message Elements to
Configure
> Request, my problem will be solved.
> 
> The suggested Message Elements from Join Request to be added to the
> Configure Request are
> 1. WTP name - this is the way the WTP identifies itself to the AC.
> 2.WTP descriptor  - the AC should know the encryption capabilities of
the
> WTP
> 3.Location Data
> 4. WTP radio information - radio type and radio id
> 
> But I am not sure if this will solve Richard's Problem . I was under
the
> assumption that the  WTP should use the
> AC Descriptor (Firmware Version/ SW version etc) to make that
decision.
> The AC descriptor is part of the
> Discovery REsponse from the AC to the WTP.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding Richard's complaint. I thought he was
concerned about the ambiguity as to how the AC knows which state to
transition to, and that this ambiguity arose due to the fact that with
the join removed, the AC has no idea which is appropriate - firmware
upgrade vs configuration. 

I guess the question is, who makes the decision about the necessity of
firmware upgrade: the AC or the WTP? You seem to indicate it should be
the WTP, but I've been thinking it should be the AC. If this is correct,
then placing the fields you've described above into the configure
exchange resolve this. Am I missing something?

Scott



Republic Polytechnic, 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, Singapore 738964 (Near Woodlands
MRT/Interchange)
. www.rp.sg . Fax: +65 6415-1310 . 

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To: "'Saravanan Govindan'" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
	capwap@frascone.com
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:26:54 +0100
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Cc: yaoth@huawei.com, Cheng Hong <Hong.Cheng@sg.panasonic.com>,
	zhouwenhui@chinamobile.com
Subject: [Capwap] RE: IESG Review - Update
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As a result of the below, I have now recorded the following "Notes to RFC-Editor"
 
Note to RFC Editor
 
- Please clarify section 5 on page 8.
  OLD:
   The objectives described in this document have been prioritized based
   on their immediate significance in the development and evaluation of
   a control and provisioning protocol for large-scale WLAN deployments.
   Additionally, one category is provided for requirements gathered from
   network service operators.  These are specific need that arise from
   operators' experiencese in deploying and managing large-scale WLANs.
   The priorities are;
 
   i.  Mandatory and Accepted Objectives
   ii.  Desirable Objectives
   iii.  Non-Objectives
   iv.  Operator Requirements
 
   The priorities have been assigned to individual objectives in
   accordance with working group discussions.
 
  NEW:
 
   The objectives described in this document have been prioritized based
   on their immediate significance in the development and evaluation of
   a control and provisioning protocol for large-scale WLAN deployments.
   The priorities are;
 
   i.  Mandatory and Accepted Objectives
   ii.  Desirable Objectives
   iii.  Non-Objectives
 
   The priorities have been assigned to individual objectives in
   accordance with working group discussions.
 
   Furthermore, a distinct category of objectives is provided based on
   requirements gathered from network service operators.  These are
   specific needs that arise from operators' experiences in deploying
   and managing large-scale WLANs.
 
   a. Operator Requirements
 
- Pls add some text in Section 5.1.8, in the 4th para on page 15
  OLD:
  Once WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually authenticated,
  information exchanges between them must be secured against various
  security threats.  This should cover illegitimate modifications to
  ...
  NEW:
  Once WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually authenticated,
  information exchanges between them must be secured against various
  security threats.  So the CAPWAP protocol MUST provide
  integrity-protection and replay-protection. The protocol SHOULD
  provide confidentiality through encryption.  This should cover
  illegitimate modifications to
  ...
- Pls insert a para in Section: 5.1.8, after last para on page 15
  OLD:
   CAPWAP MUST NOT prevent the use of asymmetric authentication.  The
   security considerations of such asymmetric authentication are
   described in the Security Considerations section.
  NEW:
   CAPWAP MUST NOT prevent the use of asymmetric authentication.  The
   security considerations of such asymmetric authentication are
   described in the Security Considerations section.
 
   If the CAPWAP protocol meets the criteria to require automated key
   management per BCP 107, then mutual authentication MUST be
   accomplished via an authenticated key exchange.
 
- Pls fix in Section: 5.1.8, first para on page 16
  OLD:
   The CAPWAP protocol MUST support mutual authentication of WTPs and
   the centralized controller.  It must also ensure that information
   exchanges between them are secured.
  NEW:
   The CAPWAP protocol MUST support mutual authentication of WTPs and
   the centralized controller. It also MUST ensure that information
   exchanges are integrity protected, and SHOULD ensure confidentiality
   through encryption."
 
  
- Please list all refrences as Normative.
  OLD:
  9.  References
 
   [RFC2119]  Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
              Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.
 
   [RFC3990]  O'Hara, B., Calhoun, P., and J. Kempf, "Configuration and
              Provisioning for Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP) Problem
              Statement", RFC 3990, February 2005.
 
   [RFC4118]  Yang, L., Zerfos, P., and E. Sadot, "Architecture Taxonomy
              for Control and Provisioning of Wireless Access Points
              (CAPWAP)", RFC 4118, June 2005.
 
  NEW:
  9. Normative References
 
   [RFC2119]  Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
              Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.
 
   [RFC3990]  O'Hara, B., Calhoun, P., and J. Kempf, "Configuration and
              Provisioning for Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP) Problem
              Statement", RFC 3990, February 2005.
 
   [RFC4118]  Yang, L., Zerfos, P., and E. Sadot, "Architecture Taxonomy
              for Control and Provisioning of Wireless Access Points
              (CAPWAP)", RFC 4118, June 2005.
 
 
Bert

-----Original Message-----
From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 09:03
To: capwap@frascone.com
Cc: bwijnen@lucent.com; Mani, Mahalingam (Mani); dorothy.gellert@nokia.com; lily.l.yang@intel.com; yaoth@huawei.com; zhouwenhui@chinamobile.com; Cheng Hong
Subject: IESG Review - Update



Hi All,

 

Based on feedback from the Chairs, this is an update to the responses for the IESG review. Your comments/acceptance would be much appreciated.


Cheers,


Saravanan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brian Carpenter's Review:

 

1. Section: 5.1.8 CAPWAP Protocol Security, Protocol Requirement

 

Comment: 

"Does that [secured] mean encrypted or integrity-protected?"

 

Original text: 

"The CAPWAP protocol MUST support mutual authentication of WTPs and the centralized controller.  It must also ensure that information exchanges between them are secured."

 

Suggested new text: From Charles Clancy - 

"The CAPWAP protocol MUST support mutual authentication of WTPs and the centralized controller. It also MUST ensure that information exchanges are integrity protected, and SHOULD ensure confidentiality through encryption."

--XX--

 

 

2. Section: 5.1.9 System-wide Security, Protocol Requirement

 

Comment: 

"Strange phrasing" of requirement

 

Original text:
 "The design of the CAPWAP protocol MUST NOT allow for any compromises to the WLAN system by external entities."

 

Suggested new text: 

No new text is suggested. Clarification on the requirement is provided below.

 

Clarification: From Mani - 

The intent [of the requirement] was to emphasize that the protocol MUST not introduce additional threats weakening the security of WLAN system. CAPWAP protocol by itself is not intended to and cannot protect against all compromises to the WLAN system which is broader than the scope of the protocol.

--XX-

 

 

3. Section: 5.1.12 Protocol Specifications

 

Comment: 

"Since this is a basic requirement of all IETF standards, why is it listed?"

 

Original text: 
"Any WTP or WLAN controller vendor or any person MUST be able to implement the CAPWAP protocol from the specification itself and by that it is required that all such implementations do interoperate."
 

Suggested new text: 

No new text is suggested. Clarification on the need for this objective is provided below.

 
Clarification: 
This objective arose during discussions on the scope of the CAPWAP protocol in managing WLAN systems. The intent was to highlight the 'completeness' of protocol in terms of achieving its interoperability goals.
--XX-
 
 
4. Section: 5.2 Desirable Objectives
 
Comment: 
"Why aren't the items in this section listed as SHOULD instead of MUST?"
 
Original text:
Protocol Requirements for all objectives categorized as Desirable Objectives include those in subsections 5.2.1 through 5.2.5. 
 

Suggested new text: 

No new text is suggested. Clarification on the need for this objective is provided below.

 
Clarification: 
The Desirable Objectives as a category can be listed as 'SHOULD'. However, the individual objectives that make up the category are still 'MUST', because they represent mandatory operations for the protocol - provided that the protocol chooses to realize a Desirable Objective.
--XX-
 
 
 
Sam Hartman's Review
 
 
5. Section: 5.1.8 CAPWAP Protocol Security, Description
 
Comment: 
"Section 5.1.8 implies that an authenticated key exchange is optional. I think that BCP 107 will require an authenticated key exchange for this protocol."
 
Original text: (Last paragraph of Description)
"CAPWAP MUST NOT prevent the use of asymmetric authentication. The security considerations of such asymmetric authentication are described in the Security Considerations section."
 
Suggested new text: From Charles Clancy [To be inserted after above-paragraph of original text] - 
"If the CAPWAP protocol meets the criteria to require automated key management per BCP 107, then mutual authentication MUST be accomplished via an authenticated key exchange."
 
Suggested new text: 
Add reference to BCP 107.
--XX-
 
 
6. Section: 5.1.8 CAPWAP Protocol Security, Description, Paragraph 5
 
Comment: 
In the following text, please describe what security services are meant; probable services include integrity and confidentiality.
 
> Once WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually authenticated, information exchanges between them
> must be secured against various security threats.
 
Original text:
Once WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually authenticated, information exchanges between them must be secured against various security threats.
 
Suggested text: From Charles Clancy- 
"Once WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually authenticated, information exchanges between them must be secured against various security threats. So the CAPWAP protocol MUST provide integrity-protection and replay-protection. The protocol SHOULD provide confidentiality through encryption."
--XX-
 
 
7. Section: 5 Objectives, Introduction
 
Comment: 
"The introduction to section 5 implies that operator requirements are valued less than non-objectives.  I don't think that is the message the IETF wants to send to the operator community."
 
Original text:
"The objectives described in this document have been prioritized based on their immediate significance in the development and evaluation of a control and provisioning protocol for large-scale WLAN deployments. Additionally, one category is provided for requirements gathered from network service operators.  These are specific need that arise from operators' experiencese in deploying and managing large-scale WLANs. The priorities are;
 
   i.  Mandatory and Accepted Objectives
   ii.  Desirable Objectives
   iii.  Non-Objectives
   iv.  Operator Requirements
 
The priorities have been assigned to individual objectives in accordance with working group discussions."
 
 
Suggested new text: 
"The objectives described in this document have been prioritized based on their immediate significance in the development and evaluation of a control and provisioning protocol for large-scale WLAN deployments.
 
The priorities are;
 
i.  Mandatory and Accepted Objectives
ii.  Desirable Objectives
iii.  Non-Objectives
 
The priorities have been assigned to individual objectives in accordance with working group discussions.
 
Furthermore, a distinct category of objectives is provided based on requirements gathered from network service operators.  These are specific needs that arise from operators' experiences in deploying and managing large-scale WLANs.
 
a. Operator Requirements"
 
 
--XX-
 
 
 

 

 

 


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D109242612-14032006>As a=20
result of the below, I have now recorded the following "Notes to=20
RFC-Editor"</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D109242612-14032006>Note=20
to RFC Editor</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D109242612-14032006>-=20
Please clarify section 5 on page 8.<BR>&nbsp; OLD:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The=20
objectives described in this document have been prioritized=20
based<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; on their immediate significance in the =
development and=20
evaluation of<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; a control and provisioning protocol for=20
large-scale WLAN deployments.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Additionally, one =
category is=20
provided for requirements gathered from<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; network service =

operators.&nbsp; These are specific need that arise =
from<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
operators' experiencese in deploying and managing large-scale=20
WLANs.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The priorities are;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;&nbsp; i.&nbsp; Mandatory and Accepted =

Objectives<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; ii.&nbsp; Desirable =
Objectives<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
iii.&nbsp; Non-Objectives<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; iv.&nbsp; Operator=20
Requirements</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;&nbsp; The priorities have been =
assigned to=20
individual objectives in<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; accordance with working group=20
discussions.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;=20
NEW:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;&nbsp; The objectives described in =
this document=20
have been prioritized based<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; on their immediate =
significance in=20
the development and evaluation of<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; a control and =
provisioning=20
protocol for large-scale WLAN deployments.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The =
priorities=20
are;<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; i.&nbsp; Mandatory and Accepted=20
Objectives<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; ii.&nbsp; Desirable =
Objectives<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
iii.&nbsp; Non-Objectives<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The priorities have =
been=20
assigned to individual objectives in<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; accordance with =
working=20
group discussions.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Furthermore, a distinct =
category of=20
objectives is provided based on<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; requirements gathered =
from=20
network service operators.&nbsp; These are<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; specific =
needs that=20
arise from operators' experiences in deploying<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; and =
managing=20
large-scale WLANs.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; a. Operator=20
Requirements</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D109242612-14032006>- Pls=20
add some text in Section 5.1.8, in the 4th para on page 15<BR>&nbsp;=20
OLD:<BR>&nbsp; Once WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually=20
authenticated,<BR>&nbsp; information exchanges between them must be =
secured=20
against various<BR>&nbsp; security threats.&nbsp; This should cover =
illegitimate=20
modifications to<BR>&nbsp; ...<BR>&nbsp; NEW:<BR>&nbsp; Once WTPs and =
WLAN=20
controller have been mutually authenticated,<BR>&nbsp; information =
exchanges=20
between them must be secured against various<BR>&nbsp; security =
threats.&nbsp;=20
So the CAPWAP protocol MUST provide<BR>&nbsp; integrity-protection and=20
replay-protection. The protocol SHOULD<BR>&nbsp; provide =
confidentiality through=20
encryption.&nbsp; This should cover<BR>&nbsp; illegitimate =
modifications=20
to<BR>&nbsp; ...<BR>- Pls insert a para in Section: 5.1.8, after last =
para on=20
page 15<BR>&nbsp; OLD:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; CAPWAP MUST NOT prevent the use =
of=20
asymmetric authentication.&nbsp; The<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; security =
considerations of=20
such asymmetric authentication are<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; described in the =
Security=20
Considerations section.<BR>&nbsp; NEW:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; CAPWAP MUST NOT =
prevent=20
the use of asymmetric authentication.&nbsp; The<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
security=20
considerations of such asymmetric authentication are<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
described=20
in the Security Considerations section.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;&nbsp; If the CAPWAP protocol meets =
the criteria=20
to require automated key<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; management per BCP 107, then =
mutual=20
authentication MUST be<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; accomplished via an =
authenticated key=20
exchange.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D109242612-14032006>- Pls=20
fix in Section: 5.1.8, first para on page 16<BR>&nbsp; =
OLD:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The=20
CAPWAP protocol MUST support mutual authentication of WTPs =
and<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
the centralized controller.&nbsp; It must also ensure that=20
information<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; exchanges between them are =
secured.<BR>&nbsp;=20
NEW:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The CAPWAP protocol MUST support mutual =
authentication of=20
WTPs and<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; the centralized controller. It also MUST =
ensure that=20
information<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; exchanges are integrity protected, and =
SHOULD ensure=20
confidentiality<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; through =
encryption."</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;=20
<BR>- Please list all refrences as Normative.<BR>&nbsp; OLD:<BR>&nbsp; =
9.&nbsp;=20
References</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC2119]&nbsp; Bradner, S., =
"Key words=20
for use in RFCs to=20
Indicate<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC3990]&nbsp; O'Hara, B., =
Calhoun, P.,=20
and J. Kempf, "Configuration=20
and<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Provisioning for Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP)=20
Problem<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Statement", RFC 3990, February 2005.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC4118]&nbsp; Yang, L., =
Zerfos, P., and=20
E. Sadot, "Architecture=20
Taxonomy<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
for Control and Provisioning of Wireless Access=20
Points<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
(CAPWAP)", RFC 4118, June 2005.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;=20
NEW:<BR>&nbsp; 9. Normative References</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC2119]&nbsp; Bradner, S., =
"Key words=20
for use in RFCs to=20
Indicate<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC3990]&nbsp; O'Hara, B., =
Calhoun, P.,=20
and J. Kempf, "Configuration=20
and<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Provisioning for Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP)=20
Problem<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Statement", RFC 3990, February 2005.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006>&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC4118]&nbsp; Yang, L., =
Zerfos, P., and=20
E. Sadot, "Architecture=20
Taxonomy<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
for Control and Provisioning of Wireless Access=20
Points<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
(CAPWAP)", RFC 4118, June 2005.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D109242612-14032006>Bert</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Saravanan =
Govindan=20
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, =
March 06,=20
  2006 09:03<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Cc:</B> =
bwijnen@lucent.com;=20
  Mani, Mahalingam (Mani); dorothy.gellert@nokia.com; =
lily.l.yang@intel.com;=20
  yaoth@huawei.com; zhouwenhui@chinamobile.com; Cheng =
Hong<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  IESG Review - Update<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
  All,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Based on feedback from =
the Chairs,=20
  this is an update to the responses for the IESG review. Your=20
  comments/acceptance would be much =
appreciated.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><BR>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><BR>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Brian Carpenter&#8217;s =

  Review:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1. Section: 5.1.8 =
CAPWAP Protocol=20
  Security, Protocol Requirement<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Comment: <FONT =
color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8220;Does that =
[secured] mean=20
  encrypted or integrity-protected?&#8221;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Original text: <FONT=20
  color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"The CAPWAP protocol =
MUST support=20
  mutual authentication of WTPs and the centralized controller.&nbsp; =
It must=20
  also ensure that information exchanges between them are=20
  secured."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Suggested new text: =
>From Charles=20
  Clancy &#8211; <FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8220;The CAPWAP =
protocol MUST support=20
  mutual authentication of WTPs and the centralized controller. It also =
MUST=20
  ensure that information exchanges are integrity protected, and SHOULD =
ensure=20
  confidentiality through encryption."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">--XX--<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2. Section: 5.1.9 =
System-wide=20
  Security, Protocol Requirement<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Comment: <FONT =
color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8220;Strange =
phrasing&#8221; of=20
  requirement<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Original =
text:<FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> &#8220;The design of the CAPWAP protocol MUST NOT allow for any =
compromises to the WLAN system by external =
entities.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Suggested new text:=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No new text is =
suggested.=20
  Clarification on the requirement is provided=20
  below.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Clarification: From =
Mani &#8211; <FONT=20
  color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">T</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">he intent=20
  [of the requirement]<FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy">=20
  </SPAN></FONT>was to emphasize that the protocol MUST not introduce =
additional=20
  threats weakening the security of WLAN system. CAPWAP protocol by =
itself is=20
  not intended to and cannot protect against all compromises to the =
WLAN system=20
  which is broader than the scope of the =
protocol.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">--XX&#8212;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">3. Section: 5.1.12 =
Protocol=20
  Specifications<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Comment: <FONT =
color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8220;Since this is a =
basic requirement=20
  of all IETF standards, why is it =
listed?&#8221;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Original =
text: <FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&#8220;Any WTP or WLAN controller vendor or any person MUST be =
able to implement the CAPWAP protocol from the specification itself and =
by that it is required that all such implementations do =
interoperate.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Suggested new text:=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No new text is =
suggested.=20
  Clarification on the need for this objective is provided=20
  below.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Clarification: <FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">This objective arose during discussions on the scope of the =
CAPWAP protocol in managing WLAN systems. The intent was to highlight =
the 'completeness' of protocol in terms of achieving its =
interoperability goals.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">--XX&#8212;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">4. Section: 5.2 Desirable =
Objectives<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Comment: =
<FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DAri=
al size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&#8220;Why aren't the items in this section listed as SHOULD =
instead of MUST?&#8221;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Original =
text:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Protocol =
Requirements for all objectives categorized as Desirable Objectives =
include those in subsections 5.2.1 through 5.2.5. =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Suggested new text:=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No new text is =
suggested.=20
  Clarification on the need for this objective is provided=20
  below.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Clarification: <FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">The Desirable Objectives as a category can be listed as =
'SHOULD'. However, the individual objectives that make up the category =
are still 'MUST', because they represent mandatory operations for the =
protocol - provided that the protocol chooses to realize a Desirable =
Objective.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">--XX&#8212;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sam =
Hartman&#8217;s Review<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">5. Section: 5.1.8 CAPWAP Protocol Security, =
Description<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Comment: =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8220;Section 5.1.8 =
implies that an authenticated key exchange is optional. I think that =
BCP 107 will require an authenticated key exchange for this =
protocol.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Original =
text: (Last paragraph of =
Description)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&#8220;CAPWAP MUST NOT prevent the use of asymmetric =
authentication. The security considerations of such asymmetric =
authentication are described in the Security Considerations section.&#82=
21;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Suggested =
new text: From Charles Clancy [To be inserted after above-paragraph of =
original text] &#8211; <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&#8220;If the CAPWAP protocol meets the criteria to require =
automated key management per BCP 107, then mutual authentication MUST =
be accomplished via an authenticated key =
exchange."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Suggested =
new text: <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Add<FONT =
color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT>reference to =
BCP 107<FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy">.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">--XX&#8212;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">6. Section: 5.1.8 CAPWAP Protocol Security, Description, =
Paragraph 5<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Comment: =
<FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">In the following text, please describe what security services =
are meant; probable services include integrity and =
confidentiality.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&gt; Once =
WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually authenticated, information =
exchanges between them<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&gt; must be secured against various security =
threats.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Original text:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Once WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually authenticated, =
information exchanges between them must be secured against various =
security threats.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Suggested text: From Charles Clancy- =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"Once WTPs and WLAN =
controller have been mutually authenticated, information exchanges =
between them must be secured against various security threats. So the =
CAPWAP protocol MUST provide integrity-protection and =
replay-protection. The protocol SHOULD provide confidentiality through =
encryption."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">--XX&#8212;=
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">7. Section: 5 Objectives, =
Introduction<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Comment: =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8220;The introduction =
to section 5 implies that operator requirements are valued less than =
non-objectives.&nbsp; I don't think that is the message the IETF wants =
to send to the operator =
community.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Original =
text:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8220;The =
objectives described in this document have been prioritized based on =
their immediate significance in the development and evaluation of a =
control and provisioning protocol for large-scale WLAN deployments. =
Additionally, one category is provided for requirements gathered from =
network service operators.&nbsp; These are specific need that arise =
from operators' experiencese in deploying and managing large-scale =
WLANs. The priorities are;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp; i.&nbsp; Mandatory and Accepted =
Objectives<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp; ii.&nbsp; Desirable =
Objectives<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp; iii.&nbsp; =
Non-Objectives<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp; iv.&nbsp; Operator =
Requirements<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The =
priorities have been assigned to individual objectives in accordance =
with working group =
discussions.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Suggested =
new text: <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8220;The =
objectives described in this document have been prioritized based on =
their immediate significance in the development and evaluation of a =
control and provisioning protocol for large-scale WLAN =
deployments.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The =
priorities are;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">i.&nbsp; =
Mandatory and Accepted Objectives<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FO=
NT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">ii.&nbsp; Desirable =
Objectives<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">iii.&nbsp; =
Non-Objectives<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The =
priorities have been assigned to individual objectives in accordance =
with working group =
discussions.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Furthermore, a distinct category of objectives is provided based =
on requirements gathered from network service operators.&nbsp; These =
are specific need<FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy">s</SPAN></FONT> that arise from operators' experiences in =
deploying and managing large-scale =
WLANs.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">a. =
Operator Requirements&#8221;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">--XX&#8212;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT=
ML>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:25:30 +0100
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification
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From: "Peter Nilsson J (LI/EAB)" <peter.j.nilsson@ericsson.com>
To: <capwap@frascone.com>
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Hi All,

As already mentioned in this track. By removing the Join phase the AC
really miss some intressting information about the WTP. I would say that
the AC would need about the same WTP information as anounced in the
Discovery Request.

I also agree in that the AC should decide if the firmware should be
updated in the WTP or not.

There is some ambigutiy regarding the firmware update
Chapter 8.2 Image Data Response. Says that this message carries no
information elements.
However
On page 16 Image Data to Image Data (n): indicates that the Image Data
Response would carry information elements such as more data indication.

Also the text in 8.1 Image Data Request indicate this message can be
sent both from WTP and AC, how would the update sequence look like if
the WTP initiated the update?

Regards
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Gwee [mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg]=20
Sent: den 14 mars 2006 07:29
To: Scott Kelly; sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com;
capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the email. My "complaint" is about the ambiguity which is
your initial understanding. You have not misunderstood my meaning in the
first place :). However, you did raise a valid point in who determine
the necessity to upgrade the firmware. My opinion all the while is that
the decision making should lies with the AC.

Hi Sujatha,

Thanks for the email reply. The AC descriptor you mentioned does contain
some value on the hardware and software version. Unfortunately, the
draft specification does not seem to indicate clearly on how these
values are to be used in answering my question. Perhaps some
confirmation from others rather than we assume?

Thanks and Regards
Richard=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kelly [mailto:skelly@arubanetworks.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:23 AM
To: sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com; Richard Gwee;
capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification

Comments inline below...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com
> [mailto:sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:58 PM
> To: Scott Kelly; 'Richard Gwee'; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Questions on the CAPWAP Protocol Specification
>=20
> Hi Scott,
>  Thanks for the response.
>  I agree  that if we add all the relevant Message Elements to
Configure
> Request, my problem will be solved.
>=20
> The suggested Message Elements from Join Request to be added to the=20
> Configure Request are 1. WTP name - this is the way the WTP identifies

> itself to the AC.
> 2.WTP descriptor  - the AC should know the encryption capabilities of
the
> WTP
> 3.Location Data
> 4. WTP radio information - radio type and radio id
>=20
> But I am not sure if this will solve Richard's Problem . I was under
the
> assumption that the  WTP should use the AC Descriptor (Firmware=20
> Version/ SW version etc) to make that
decision.
> The AC descriptor is part of the
> Discovery REsponse from the AC to the WTP.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding Richard's complaint. I thought he was
concerned about the ambiguity as to how the AC knows which state to
transition to, and that this ambiguity arose due to the fact that with
the join removed, the AC has no idea which is appropriate - firmware
upgrade vs configuration.=20

I guess the question is, who makes the decision about the necessity of
firmware upgrade: the AC or the WTP? You seem to indicate it should be
the WTP, but I've been thinking it should be the AC. If this is correct,
then placing the fields you've described above into the configure
exchange resolve this. Am I missing something?

Scott



Republic Polytechnic, 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, Singapore 738964 (Near
Woodlands MRT/Interchange) . www.rp.sg . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .=20

Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully
adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to
strive towards best practices and maintain excellence in service
standards with the following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class
(SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and
QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of
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this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not
disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Mar 15 06:34:53 2006
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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] two documents have been approved (eval and objectives)
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WG participants,

The IESG DISCUSS on the objectives document has now been cleared.
Also some comment for aval draft have been formulated (admin
stuff on citations). 

The resul is that both these documents:

   draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt
   draft-ietf-capwap-eval-00.txt

have now been approved. Formal announcement will come from the
iesg-secretariat over the next few days.

Congrats to the WG and spcial thanks to the authors/editors of
the documents.

Now let us get the protocol spec to good completion!

Bert
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-mani
-----Original Message-----
From: IETF Secretariat [mailto:ietf-secretariat@ietf.org]=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 8:26 PM
To: Working Group Chairs
Subject: Jabber service for IETF meetings=20

Dear IETF WG Chairs,

The Secretariat is pleased to announce a new Instant Messaging service.
This
service will provide jabber chat rooms to all IETF working groups for
their text
conferencing at IETF 65 and future meetings.

The new jabber server is located at jabber.ietf.org and is currently
accessible.  For those who are interested, please visit the above
location to
join any of the available chat rooms.

Over the next few days, please take the time to test this new service
and
provide us with all questions, comments, and suggestions.  Your feedback
is key
to our success!

Please note:

All traffic within the defined rooms (except "noc") is being logged and
updated
every 5 minutes to the ietf.org website.

To view the log directories, point your browser to
http://www.ietf.org/meetings/ietf-logs/.

If you click on a room directory, you will see one or more files named
"YYYY-MM-DD.html", e.g. 2006-03-14.html.  If you click on one of those
files,
you will see all logged traffic for that day.
=20
Please visit the IETF Text Conferencing Web page
(http://www.ietf.org/meetings/text_conf.html) for more information.

The IETF Secretariat.




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From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
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Cc: Internet Architecture Board <iab@iab.org>,
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Subject: [Capwap] Document Action: 'Objectives for Control and Provisioning
 of Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP)' to Informational RFC 
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Objectives for Control and Provisioning of Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP) '
   <draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt> as an Informational RFC

This document is the product of the Control And Provisioning of Wireless AccessPoints Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Bert Wijnen and David Kessens.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt

Technical Summary
 
  This document presents objectives for an interoperable protocol for
  the Control and Provisioning of Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP). 
  The document aims to establish a set of focused requirements for the
  development and evaluation of a CAPWAP protocol.  The objectives
  address Architecture, Operation, Security and Network Operator
  Requirements that are necessary to enable interoperability among
  wireless local area network (WLAN) architectural variants.
 
Working Group Summary
 
  Support for local-MAC and split-MAC (obj-5.1.1 related to logical
  groups) had generated quite some spirited discussions. It aims to
  seek support for both modes as identified in RFC4118.  Also worth
  noting is the NAT traversal requirement – which was not in initial
  revision; that brought a desired objective in (5.1.15).
  Another noteworthy (accepted objective; but still debated on its
  variants) is the firmware update requirement (whether trigger is
  enough or more needs specified in Protocol).
 
Protocol Quality
 
  This document has had the benefit of review from WG members and
  rigorous review from IEEE802.11 WLAN WG as well through IEEE
  liaison Dorothy Stanley.

  Bert Wijnen has reviewed the document for the IESG.

  Since this is an Informational document and since it has had 
  serious review as stated above, there was no IETF Last Call.

Note to RFC Editor

- Please clarify section 5 on page 8.
  OLD:
   The objectives described in this document have been prioritized based
   on their immediate significance in the development and evaluation of
   a control and provisioning protocol for large-scale WLAN deployments.
   Additionally, one category is provided for requirements gathered from
   network service operators.  These are specific need that arise from
   operators' experiencese in deploying and managing large-scale WLANs.
   The priorities are;

   i.  Mandatory and Accepted Objectives
   ii.  Desirable Objectives
   iii.  Non-Objectives
   iv.  Operator Requirements

   The priorities have been assigned to individual objectives in
   accordance with working group discussions.

  NEW:

   The objectives described in this document have been prioritized based
   on their immediate significance in the development and evaluation of
   a control and provisioning protocol for large-scale WLAN deployments.
   The priorities are;
 
   i.  Mandatory and Accepted Objectives
   ii.  Desirable Objectives
   iii.  Non-Objectives
 
   The priorities have been assigned to individual objectives in
   accordance with working group discussions.
 
   Furthermore, a distinct category of objectives is provided based on
   requirements gathered from network service operators.  These are
   specific needs that arise from operators' experiences in deploying
   and managing large-scale WLANs.
 
   a. Operator Requirements

- Pls add some text in Section 5.1.8, in the 4th para on page 15
  OLD:
  Once WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually authenticated,
  information exchanges between them must be secured against various
  security threats.  This should cover illegitimate modifications to
  ...
  NEW:
  Once WTPs and WLAN controller have been mutually authenticated,
  information exchanges between them must be secured against various
  security threats.  So the CAPWAP protocol MUST provide
  integrity-protection and replay-protection. The protocol SHOULD
  provide confidentiality through encryption.  This should cover
  illegitimate modifications to
  ...
- Pls insert a para in Section: 5.1.8, after last para on page 15
  OLD:
   CAPWAP MUST NOT prevent the use of asymmetric authentication.  The
   security considerations of such asymmetric authentication are
   described in the Security Considerations section.
  NEW:
   CAPWAP MUST NOT prevent the use of asymmetric authentication.  The
   security considerations of such asymmetric authentication are
   described in the Security Considerations section.

   If the CAPWAP protocol meets the criteria to require automated key
   management per BCP 107, then mutual authentication MUST be
   accomplished via an authenticated key exchange.

- Pls fix in Section: 5.1.8, first para on page 16
  OLD:
   The CAPWAP protocol MUST support mutual authentication of WTPs and
   the centralized controller.  It must also ensure that information
   exchanges between them are secured.
  NEW:
   The CAPWAP protocol MUST support mutual authentication of WTPs and
   the centralized controller. It also MUST ensure that information
   exchanges are integrity protected, and SHOULD ensure confidentiality
   through encryption."

  
- Please list all refrences as Normative.
  OLD:
  9.  References

   [RFC2119]  Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
              Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.

   [RFC3990]  O'Hara, B., Calhoun, P., and J. Kempf, "Configuration and
              Provisioning for Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP) Problem
              Statement", RFC 3990, February 2005.

   [RFC4118]  Yang, L., Zerfos, P., and E. Sadot, "Architecture Taxonomy
              for Control and Provisioning of Wireless Access Points
              (CAPWAP)", RFC 4118, June 2005.

  NEW:
  9. Normative References

   [RFC2119]  Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
              Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.

   [RFC3990]  O'Hara, B., Calhoun, P., and J. Kempf, "Configuration and
              Provisioning for Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP) Problem
              Statement", RFC 3990, February 2005.

   [RFC4118]  Yang, L., Zerfos, P., and E. Sadot, "Architecture Taxonomy
              for Control and Provisioning of Wireless Access Points
              (CAPWAP)", RFC 4118, June 2005.

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Subject: [Capwap] Document Action: 'Evaluation of Candidate CAPWAP
 Protocols' to Informational RFC 
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Evaluation of Candidate CAPWAP Protocols '
   <draft-ietf-capwap-eval-00.txt> as an Informational RFC

This document is the product of the Control And Provisioning of Wireless AccessPoints Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Bert Wijnen and David Kessens.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-capwap-eval-00.txt

Technical Summary
 
   This document is a record of the process and findings of the
   Configuration and Provisioning of Wireless Access Points Working
   Group (CAPWAP WG) evaluation team.  The evaluation team reviewed
   the four candidate protocols as they were submitted to the working
   group on the 26th of June, 2005. 
  
WG Summary

   this has been a non-controversial, albeit preceded by a highly
   contentious phase.  It has in itself raised no distinct
   controversies and some intermediate concerns related to
   correctness in interpretation of some protocol draft features
   were cleared prior to the issuance of this document.

Protocol quality

   This document has been reviewed for the IESG by Bert Wijnen.

   The document is intended as Informational RFC, so there was no
   IETF Last Call.


Note to RFC Editor
 
The first 2 references in sect 10 are:
   [ARCH]     Yang, L., Zerfos, P., and E. Sadot, "Architecture Taxonomy
              for Control and Provisioning of Wireless Access
              Points(CAPWAP)", November 2004.

   [OBJ]      Govindan, S., Yao, ZH., Zhou, WH., Yang, L., and H. Cheng,
              "Objectives for Control and Provisioning of Wireless
              Access Points (CAPWAP)", June 2005.

The first one is already published as RFC4118.
The second one has entered (or will enter) your RFC-Editor queue at
about the same tome as this document. So you probably can add a
RFC number as well.

Further, the following documents may get submitted as independent 
submissions, in which case you may want to use RFC numbers for
them as well. However, if you have not received such requests by
the time you are ready to publis this document as an RFC, then 
please do not wait with publication and keep references as is.

   [CTP]      Singh , I., Francisco, P., Pakulski , K., and F. Backes ,
              "CAPWAP Tunneling Protocol (CTP)", April 2005.

   [LWAPP]    Calhoun, P., O'Hara, B., Kelly, S., Suri, R., Williams,
              M., Hares, S., and N. Cam Winget, "Light Weight Access
              Point Protocol (LWAPP)", March 2005.

   [SLAPP]    Narasimhan, P., Harkins, D., and S. Ponnuswamy, "SLAPP :
              Secure Light Access Point Protocol", May 2005.

   [WICOP]    Iino, S., Govindan, S., Sugiura, M., and H. Cheng,
              "Wireless LAN Control Protocol (WiCoP)", March 2005.

IANA Note

  There are no actions to be performed by IANA.

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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:24:02 +0530
From: ArchanaSuresh <archanas@huawei.com>
To: capwap@frascone.com
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Subject: [Capwap] WTP Board Data
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Hi 

 

      As per the draft, WTP Board Data should be sent in the Config Request
message.

 

      Q1: Its better we send in this tlv in Join request.

            The Model number would be useful in the Join phase to watch for
compatibility

            The WTP Serial Number & WtpMac address will form key identifiers
for an AP if sent in Join phase.

      

      Q2: What is the CardID and Card Revision  content ? 

 

      Q3 What in case if the AP home multiple Ethernet MAC Address ?

 

Please clarify the above      

 

Regards,

Archana Suresh


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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041'>Hi </span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As
per the draft, WTP Board Data should be sent in the Config Request message.</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041;font-weight:
bold'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Q1: Its better we send in this tlv in Join
request.</span></font></b></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The
Model number would be useful in the Join phase to watch for compatibility</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The
</span></font><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>WTP Serial
Number &amp; </span></font><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041'>WtpMac address
will form key identifiers for an AP if sent in Join phase.</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041;font-weight:
bold'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></font></b></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041;font-weight:
bold'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Q2: What is the CardID and </span></font></b><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New";color:black;font-weight:bold'>Card Revision</span></font></b><b><font
size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041;font-weight:bold'>&nbsp; content ? </span></font></b></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041;font-weight:
bold'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041;font-weight:
bold'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Q3 What in case if the AP home multiple </span></font></b><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New";color:black;font-weight:bold'>Ethernet MAC Address ?</span></font></b></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><font size=2 color="#002041"
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
color:#002041'>Please clarify the above&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041'>Regards,</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#002041" face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002041'>Archana Suresh</span></font></p>

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Saravanan,
 
I've captured this item on the issues list as a bug. The issue number is
77.
 
Cheers,
 
    Mike


  _____  

From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] 
Sent: March 3, 2006 1:51 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Figure 1 - Generic figure for CAPWAP architecture



Hi All,

 

I was finally read through the new CAPWAP Specifications draft. I think we
have a very good start with this draft. 

 

This note is regarding Figure 1 "Representative CAPWAP Architecture for
Split-MAC" on page 7. I think it will be good to use a generic figure that
shows the CAPWAP architecture for both split-MAC and local-MAC. 

 

How about the following?

 

 

+-+                          (SM)  +-+

| |--------------------------------| |

| |          \802.11 frames        | |

| |           \                    | |

| |        (LM)\                   | | 

| |             \+-+               | |

| |              | |               | |

| |--------------| |---------------| |

| |  802.11 PHY/ | |   CAPWAP      | |

| | MAC sublayer | |               | |

+-+              +-+               +-+

STA              WTP                AC

 

 

 

The last sentence of the 2nd paragraph of the Introduction can be modified
to explain this.

 

'Figure 1 illustrates this ...... to an IEEE 802.11 binding, "in which paths
for Split-MAC (SM) and Local-MAC (LM) designs are shown."

 

 

 

Cheers,


Saravanan 


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<BODY lang=EN-US vLink=purple link=blue>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=582082617-16032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>Saravanan,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=582082617-16032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=582082617-16032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>I've captured this item on the issues list as a bug. The 
issue number is&nbsp; 77.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=582082617-16032006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=582082617-16032006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=582082617-16032006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=582082617-16032006>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>Mike</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
  <HR tabIndex=-1>
  <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan 
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> March 3, 2006 
  1:51 AM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Capwap] Figure 1 
  - Generic figure for CAPWAP architecture<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=Section1>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Hi 
  All,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">I was finally read 
  through the new CAPWAP Specifications draft. I think we have a very good start 
  with this draft. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">This note is regarding 
  Figure 1 &#8220;Representative CAPWAP Architecture for Split-MAC&#8221; on page 7. I think 
  it will be good to use a generic figure that shows the CAPWAP architecture for 
  both split-MAC and local-MAC. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">How about the 
  following?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">+-+&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  (SM)&nbsp; +-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">| 
  |--------------------------------| |<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">| | 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;\802.11 
  frames&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| 
  |<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">| 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;\ 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| 
  |<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">| 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  (LM)\&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  | | <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">| 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  \+-+&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  | |<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">| 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  | 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  | |<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">| |--------------| 
  |---------------| |<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">| |&nbsp; 802.11 PHY/ | 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp; CAPWAP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;| 
  |<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">| | MAC sublayer | 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| 
  |<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">+-+&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">STA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  WTP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  AC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The last sentence of 
  the 2nd paragraph of the Introduction can be modified to explain 
  this.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&#8216;Figure 1 illustrates 
  this &#8230;&#8230; to an IEEE 802.11 binding, &#8220;in which paths for Split-MAC (SM) and 
  Local-MAC (LM) designs are shown.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><BR>Saravanan 
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Mar 16 12:40:43 2006
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: sujay <sujayg@huawei.com>,
	sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com, capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] FW: 802.11 Specific - no result code for WLAN config
	command
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I've recorded this issue as a bug. The issue number is 78.

Cheers,

	Mike 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com] 
> Sent: March 8, 2006 2:11 AM
> To: sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] FW: 802.11 Specific - no result code 
> for WLAN config command
> 
> Sujatha,
> The first point you have mentioned could  be addressed thus;
> 
> Send WLAN Configuration reponse only when the operation is 
> successful.Using the sequence number in the request packet 
> you should be able identify which WLAN configuration request 
> has failed and thus the Radio ID. WLAN Id etc.
> 
> 
> Second point;
> 
> (In the expired lwapp-03.txt this message was being sent in the Join
> Request Message,
> not so in the current.)
> 
> It could be handled in two ways;
> 1. the AC should not send the Discovery Response if it is unable to
> configure the WTP
> With its given WTP radio information, that automatically means the
> ClientHello SHOULD
> not be expected from the that non-supported WTP.
> 
> 2. It could be added as a part of the 802.11 binding message, IEEE
> 802.11 WTP WLAN Radio Configuration,
> message another "Radio Type". 
> 
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> Regards,
> Sujay
> 
> My Location;
> http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=14.626109,76.959229&spn=4.72485
2,7.525085
> &t=h&hl=en
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Hi,
> 
>    1.  I found that in the CAPWAP specification, the WLAN 
> configuration
> request sent from the AC to the WTP is acked by the WLAN Configuration
> Response. This Message does not have any message elements. 
> And I presume
> it is sent irrespective of success / failure of configuration.
> 
>  Can we have the Radio Id , WLAN ID and Success Code Message Elements
> (tlvs) to be sent as part of WLAN Configure Response ? ?If 
> not, is there
> any other means of finding out if my WLAN Configuration (Add 
> / Update /
> Delete ) succeeded or not?
> 
>  2. The WTP Radio Information that lists the Radio type and Id is part
> of the Discovery Request. It is not sent as part of any Message after
> that.  But since the AC does not keep any state for a 
> Discovery Request,
> the AC does not remember it. I assume that without knowing the Radio
> type, the AC would not be able to configure the WTP. I suggest we add
> Radio Type TLV to the Configure Request, to avoid this.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sujatha V
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: "Mani, Mahalingam (Mani)" <mmani@avaya.com>,
	Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>, capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Handover issue
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:43:56 -0500
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I've created a new feature request issue on the issues list. The issue
number is 79.

Cheers,

	Mike 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mani, Mahalingam (Mani) [mailto:mmani@avaya.com] 
> Sent: March 13, 2006 4:40 PM
> To: Behcet Sarikaya; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Handover issue
> 
> Behcet,
> 
> CAPWAP does not decide how to roam but tells how the CAPWAP 
> specifies division of labor between WTP and AC in course of 
> BSS transitions. Hence section 11.2 is in scope.
> 
> The charter or agreed architectural objectives does not 
> include context transfers by CAPWAP between 'AP's - except: 
> much of the context of conventional AP is now already 
> resident in AC and changes the scope of an "inter-AP" transfer.
> 
> AC-AC context transfer also remains out of scope - though it 
> is a worthy problem as well for mobility considerations.
> 
> Your draft's overview section says
> "For both Local and Split MAC WTPs, authentication is based on IEEE
>    802.11i.  Full 802.11i authentication is carried for the first time
>    association of the stations.  CAPWAPHP transfers AAA context to the
>    neighbor Local MAC WTPs so that when the station 
> reassociates with a
>    neighbor WTP, only 4-way handshake of 802.11i authentication can be
>    carried."
> 
> The relevance of this to the follow-up 802.11r and subsequent 
> local-MAC division of labor changes quite a bit. 802.11r 
> optimizes intra-ESS security transitions (and some related 
> contexts) and is about to resolve how to do so in the 
> backend. It does not amount to plain context transfer - but 
> (security)context-derivation for the target and that too not 
> necessarily from deleted-mobile to added-mobile.
> 
> We have suggested pursuing discussions on the list as well to 
> gauge WG opinion if this draft shows up required 
> functionality missing from what is already provided.
> 
> If time permits (earlier agenda items do not eat up available 
> time) - we should be able to accommodate a short presentation 
> at IETF65.
> 
> Regards,
> -mani
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 11:20 AM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Handover issue
> 
> Dear all,
>   I would like to raise this issue within the framework of 
> the draft we submitted to CAPWAP. I already raised it with the chairs.
>   The issue is whether roaming/ handover is within the scope 
> of CAPWAP.
> I checked with the latest protocol spec :
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-capwap-protocol
-specifica
> tion-00.txt
> in Sec. 11.2 there is a discussion of roaming stations.
>   If the roaming is out of scope, I suggest that all roaming 
> references be removed from the spec and this issue be left to 
> further work.
>   If the roaming is in the scope then I'll appreciate 
> comments on our draft 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sarikaya-capwap-capw
aphp-01.tx
> t
> which presents a more comprehensive solution.
> Regards,
> 
> --behcet
> _________________________________________________________________
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To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
	zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>, capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] I recommend "Change MAC address to IP adderss in 10.
	3 Authenticated Key Exchange"
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I created a issue 80 as a bug to address this issue.

Cheers,

	Mike 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] 
> Sent: February 16, 2006 11:38 AM
> To: zhaoyujin 31390; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] I recommend "Change MAC address to IP 
> adderss in 10.3 Authenticated Key Exchange"
> 
> I disagree, especially since the WTP's BSSID must be known to the AC.
> 
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> 
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:33 AM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: [Capwap] I recommend "Change MAC address to IP adderss in 
> > 10.3 Authenticated Key Exchange"
> > 
> > Hi all:
> > 
> >   LWAPP will delete Layer 2 Tunnel mode.
> > 
> >   I think the LWAPP protocol should not use the MAC address 
> of AC and 
> > AP, so that I recommend we need think to change or delete all MAC 
> > address about AP and AC.
> > 
> > Best regards
> > Yujin Zhao
> > H3Com
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > 
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > 
> _________________________________________________________________
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To: Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com,
	"Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] minor edits and questions capwapp protocol specifica tion
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I created issue 81 as a bug to address these comments.

Cheers,

	Mike 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com [mailto:Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com] 
> Sent: March 11, 2006 8:28 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Cc: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] minor edits and questions capwapp protocol 
> specification
> 
> 
> Very Readable -- some minor comments
> 
> Page 33 -- Section 5.1 -- 5th paragraph
> 
> If a Discovery Response .... equal to SilentInterval before 
> sending further Discovery Request messages.
> 
> change to
> If a Discovery Response .... equal to SilentInterval before 
> returning to the ide stand and sending further Discovery 
> Request messages.
> 
> 
> Section 5.1.5 WTP Frame Type -- Page 37 - Local Bridging
> 
> What do the frames look like -- do not understand what is 
> sent or received.
> 
> Page 51 -- Top of Page -- Secton 7.3.2
> 
> cause repeated twice -- delete 1st reference
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>,
	zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] One issue "In order to support NAT, I recommend that
	LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control tunnel and Data Tunnel"
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I created issue 82 as a bug to track this issue.

Cheers,

	Mike 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins@dsperkins.com] 
> Sent: February 27, 2006 10:21 PM
> To: zhaoyujin 31390
> Cc: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] One issue "In order to support NAT, I 
> recommend that LWAPP only support one UDP port for Control 
> tunnel and Data Tunnel"
> 
> HI,
> 
> CAPWAP with NATs has come up from time to time on this list, 
> and people have claimed that it is a "typical" or "basic"
> scenario. I'm sorry, but I don't see it. Before the WG spends 
> time resolving this issue, I'd really like to see STRONG 
> justifications. That is, why would you deploy a CAPWAP system 
> split this way? And if CAPWAP didn't support this NAT split, 
> what would it cost you, or what would you not be able to do?
> 
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2006, zhaoyujin 31390 wrote:
> > Dear all:
> > 
> >   I recommend that LWAPP only support one UDP port for 
> Control tunnel and Data Tunnel. 
> > 
> >   LWAPP protocol uses UDP packets, so that it can directly 
> support NAT passthrough.
> > 
> >   One basic scenario is that WTP is behind NAT device and 
> AC is in public network. For control tunnel, there are no 
> problem. Because it is initiated by WTP, NAT device can 
> create corresponding table for LWAPP control tunnel packets. 
> > 
> >   The problems is:
> > 
> >    1. The data packets can not be firstly sent from AC to WTP.
> > 
> >    2. Even if WTP firstly sends pacekts, AC can get the 
> corresponding control tunnel with this LWAPP data tunnel 
> based on the packets.  Because in one NAT device, there may 
> be multiple WTP. All WTP's IP addresses are same which is NAT 
> device global IP address, and AC can not know the data 
> packets belonging to which AP.
> > 
> > 
> > Best regards
> > Yujin Zhao
> > H3Com
> 
> Regards,
> /david t. perkins
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
	Charles Clancy <clancy@cs.umd.edu>, sarikaya@ieee.org
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Radius
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:57:19 -0500
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I've created issue 83 as a bug to track this issue.

Cheers,

	Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] 
> Sent: February 22, 2006 5:00 PM
> To: Charles Clancy; sarikaya@ieee.org
> Cc: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Radius
> 
> Charles correctly interpreted my comment - and said it even 
> better than I did :)
> 
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> 
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Charles Clancy [mailto:clancy@cs.umd.edu]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:47 PM
> > To: sarikaya@ieee.org
> > Cc: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: Re: [Capwap] Radius
> > 
> > I don't think Pat's comments imply having only a split MAC.  
> > For example, local MAC with RADIUS client on the AC gives the added 
> > functionality of fast handoff between WTPs.
> > 
> > [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ 
> www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ 
> > computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ]
> > 
> > Behcet Sarikaya wrote:
> > > If others agree, I also agree but reducing the scope to Split MAC 
> > > only, this is a big change!
> > > 
> > > Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> > > 
> > >> I believe that having CAPWAP focus on creating what we 
> essentially 
> > >> have today, via autonomous or standalone APs, is not 
> necessarily a 
> > >> worthwhile exercise.
> > >>
> > >> Pat Calhoun
> > >> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> > >>
> > >>  
> > >>
> > >>     
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > >>     *From:* Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com]
> > >>     *Sent:* Sunday, February 19, 2006 2:35 PM
> > >>     *To:* Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > >>     *Cc:* David T. Perkins; Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com;
> > >>     capwap@frascone.com
> > >>     *Subject:* Re: [Capwap] Radius
> > >>
> > >>     I am confused, are you saying that local MAC WTPs
> > (with a Radius
> > >>     client) are not governed by CAPWAP work?
> > >>
> > >>     Behcet
> > >>
> > >>     Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>I concur with David, and therefore having RADIUS in the 
> AP implies 
> > >>>that it is a standalone AP, and therefore not governed by
> > the CAPWAP work.
> > >>>
> > >>>Pat Calhoun
> > >>>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> > >>>
> > >>> 
> > >>>
> > >>>  
> > >>>
> > >>>>-----Original Message-----
> > >>>>From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins@dsperkins.com]
> > >>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 10:19 AM
> > >>>>To: Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com
> > >>>>Cc: capwap@frascone.com
> > >>>>Subject: Re: [Capwap] Radius
> > >>>>
> > >>>>HI,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Where do you draw the line between:
> > >>>>1) a collection of stand-alone APs that have a management
> > >>>>   application apply a consistent configuration
> > >>>>2) a collection an AC and connected WTPs that
> > >>>>   act together as a system.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I believe that this is an important issue, because #1
> > does not need
> > >>>>the CAPWAP protocol. It can use the existing mangement 
> interfaces 
> > >>>>(be they CLI, SNMP, or proprietary) found on standalone 
> APs. And 
> > >>>>these interfaces can be different.
> > >>>>That is, AP #1 could be managed via scripted CLI
> > commands, and AP #2
> > >>>>could be managed via SNMP operations.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Regards,
> > >>>>/david t. perkins
> > >>>>
> > >>>>On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com wrote: 
> > >>>>    
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>My reading of the draft indicates there are 2 modes of 
> operation.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>a) Combined MAC (where the AP does everything)
> > >>>>>b) Split MAC (where the AC does most of the work)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>in case b) it is clear that the AC must act as the 
> radius relay.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>in case a) where the AC is just configuring the WTP, it is
> > >>>>>      
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>not clear
> > >>>>    
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>WHY the AC has to 'proxy' as the radius server.  I think the 
> > >>>>>restriction on REQUIRING that the AC act as the radius
> > >>>>>      
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>server (in base
> > >>>>    
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>a) is too strong.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Philip
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Quoting Charles Clancy <clancy@cs.umd.edu>:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>      
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>Are you suggesting the WTPs communicate directly with the AAA 
> > >>>>>>server, and the AC configures the WTPs with the appropriate 
> > >>>>>>connection information?  Two thoughts:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>1. AAA traffic is trivial compared to everything else the
> > >>>>>>        
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>AC will be
> > >>>>    
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>doing, so the performance increase would be minimal.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>2. You've broken the keying/trust hierarchy.  Now
> > compromise of a
> > >>>>>>single WTP would allow an attacker the ability to
> > compromise all
> > >>>>>>networks that AAA server manages.  You can't contain
> > >>>>>>        
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>attacks anymore.
> > >>>>    
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>[ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[
> > >>>>>>        
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [
> > >>>>    
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | 
> college park ]
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>        
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>I was wondering if it really makes sense in the NON
> > >>>>>>>          
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>split MAC case
> > >>>>    
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>to require the AC handle radius requests.  It seems
> > this is over
> > >>>>>>>burdening the AC.  The LWAPP protocol should allow the AC to 
> > >>>>>>>configure the radius server.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>regards,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>Philip
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________________
> > __________
> > >>>>>>>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options,
> > please visit:
> > >>>>>>>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >>>>>>>          
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>________________________________________________________
> > _________
> > >>>>>>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options,
> > please visit:
> > >>>>>>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>        
> > >>>>>>
> > 
> >>>>>_________________________________________________________________
> > >>>>>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, 
> please visit:
> > >>>>>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>      
> > >>>>>
> > 
> >>>>_________________________________________________________________
> > >>>>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, 
> please visit:
> > >>>>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >>>>
> > >>>>    
> > >>>>
> > >>>_________________________________________________________________
> > >>>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > >>>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >>>
> > >>>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>  
> > >>>
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > --
> > > 
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > > 
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > 
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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> 
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Statistics - General information exchange
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I've created issue 84 to track this feature request.
 
Cheers,
 
    Mike


  _____  

From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] 
Sent: March 3, 2006 4:05 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Statistics - General information exchange



All,

 

This is regarding the statistics exchanges. So far, the statistics
information are specified only for the IEEE 802.11 binding (11.7.2.1 "IEEE
802.11 Statistics"). 

 

I think WTPs also need to exchange more general information about the
network as a whole and about the WTP. For instance, WTP needs to exchange
its loading and queuing information so that the AC can monitor the state and
capacity of the network. 

Since this needs to be periodic, my suggestion is to have the Echo Request
(6.1 "Echo Request") carry statistics or general feedback message elements.
So with every Echo exchange, the AC will learn about the prevailing general
conditions of the network. 

 

The following proposal relates to the draft:

 

----0000----

In section 6.1 Echo Request, introduce a "Statistics" message element with
the following fields.

 

      0                   1                   2                   3

      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |          WTP Load             |     WTP Transmit Queue        |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |    Channel Interference       |          Congestion           |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 

 

Type: TBD

 

WTP Load: A 16-bit value specifying the load (frames/sec) exchanged by the
WTP.

 

WTP Transmit Queue: A 16-bit value specifying the prevailing queue level as
a 

     portion of total queue size.

 

Channel Interference: A 16-bit value specifying SINR (dB) monitored by the
WTP.

 

Congestion: A 16-bit value specifying the congestion experienced by the WTP.

----XXXX----

 

 

Saravanan


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<BODY lang=EN-US vLink=purple link=blue>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=057380318-16032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>I've created issue 84 to track this feature 
request.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=057380318-16032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=057380318-16032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=057380318-16032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=057380318-16032006>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT 
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Mike</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
  <HR tabIndex=-1>
  <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan 
  [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> March 3, 2006 
  4:05 AM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Capwap] 
  Statistics - General information exchange<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=Section1>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">All,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">This is regarding the 
  statistics exchanges. So far, the statistics information are specified only 
  for the IEEE 802.11 binding (11.7.2.1 &#8220;IEEE 802.11 Statistics&#8221;). 
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">I think WTPs also need 
  to exchange more general information about the network as a whole and about 
  the WTP. For instance, WTP needs to exchange its loading and queuing 
  information so that the AC can monitor the state and capacity of the network. 
  <BR><BR>Since this needs to be periodic, my suggestion is to have the Echo 
  Request (6.1 &#8220;Echo Request&#8221;) carry statistics or general feedback message 
  elements. So with every Echo exchange, the AC will learn about the prevailing 
  general conditions of the network. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">The following proposal 
  relates to the draft:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">----0000----<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">In section 6.1 Echo 
  Request, introduce a &#8220;Statistics&#8221; message element with the following 
  fields.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  3<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 
  1<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  | &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP Load&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP Transmit Queue 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Channel Interference&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Congestion&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Type: 
  TBD<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">WTP Load: A 16-bit 
  value specifying the load (frames/sec) exchanged by the 
  WTP.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">WTP Transmit Queue: A 
  16-bit value specifying the prevailing queue level as a 
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  portion of total queue size.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Channel Interference: A 
  16-bit value specifying SINR (dB) monitored by the 
  WTP.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Congestion: A 16-bit 
  value specifying the congestion experienced by the 
  WTP.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">----XXXX----<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 17 01:15:42 2006
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Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:45:02 +0530
From: sujay <sujayg@huawei.com>
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There are some comments w.r.t to the new capwap specs;

1. It is not clear as to how in the State Machine transition , the WTP
moves to Image Data State,
Since the Join - Join Configure stages are skipped, the Image Data else
Configuration to Run states have to be accomodated after the DTLS 
complete state.

2. As the AC does not maintain any state information of the AP until
DTLS complete
 some information which was sent by the WTP during Discovery phase gets
lost
 it is required by the AC to make Configuration and WTP acceptance
decisions.

This information was being send previously in the Join Request /
response message
Exchanges.


Recommendation would be;

1. Add the following elements to Configure Request and Response;


WTP Radio Info - As defined in Section 5.1.2
WTP Descriptor - As defined in Section 5.1.3

In the Configure Request Message.


And;

Result Code - As defined in Section 7.5.1

In the Configure Response Message.


2. Change the SM to;

       DTLS Reset
              ^
               |
       Image Data
                ^
                 |
         Configure ----> Run
               ^
                 |
---> DTLS complete

Where the WTP decides on Image loading based on the version information
obtained in
the Configure State, If Image Data is not required moves to Run.


Any  comments ?

Regds,
Sujay





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The CAPWAP does not specify as to how the selection is made if the WTP 
Can support both Modes Split and Local and Frame (Tunnel ) type.

The WTP specifies MAC Type and Frame Type  in Discovery Request message,
but if it supports 
both modes , there is no provision for the AC to select the working
mode.


Recommendation :
1. Add the WTP mode and WTP tunnel type messages  in the
configure response ? Which  makes it binding 
agnostic.

2. The logic for choosing WTP mode type on the AC could depend on the
load, and user policy.

Solicit comments.

Regds,
Sujay


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HI,

The posted agenda for the CAPWAP meeting is the following:
1. WG status, Milestones, Issue Tracker, 
   Protocol Draft Status: 10min.
2. IEEE Liaison Update - Dorothy Stanley (5 min.)
3. CAPWAP protocol -00 draft and Issues 
   Discussion: Editor(s) - 30min
4. CAPWAP Protocol concerns: (Richard Gwee): 15 min
5. CAPWAP Protocol applicability to WiMAX (Parviz Yegani): 15min.
6. CAPWAP security Discussions: (TBD) 15 min
7. CAPWAPHP draft & roaming services: (Behcet Sarikaya) ? 10min.
8. MIB updates - Dave Perkins (5 min.)

I suggest the following changes:
 - item #1 be removed (or shortened to 2 minutes)
 - item #2 be removed. Any undates/changes/news can simply be
   posted to the WG mailing list.
 - item #3 be moved to the end of the meeting. (I believe
   that it may be too early in the CAPWAP protocol development
   to send significant time on resolving details before big
   picture items are resolved.)
 - item #4 - this and other high level concerns need to be
   discussed so that all can gain an understanding followed
   by a resolution.
 - item #5 to be removed. There has been no info presented
   on the WG mailing list. If there are design choices with
   CAPWAP that would need to be modified so that CAPWAP
   could support WiMax, then these should be brought
   to the attention of the WG. However, spending significant
   time on WiMax without any postings on the WG mailing
   list does not seem appropriate.
 - item #6 - security discussions. What are the issues?
   I thought that this was settled.
 - item #7 - the handover/roaming protocol. In some ways
   this is out of scope of the present charter, and should
   be defered until present issues worked out. See Mani's
   email message on Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:40:32 -0800 (PST).
   However, to support roaming (and other capabilities),
   an AC needs to be able to determine geographic proximity
   of WTPs to other WTPs to create bounds of "WiFi Clouds".
   I believe that this is an important attribute, but
   not sure if this is work that needs to be done
   now, or can be done later, because maybe it is
   part of base attributes of WTPs.
 - item #8 - MIB status. This is in the charter, but not
   much has happened. It seems like there needs to be some
   opportunity for getting a feel of the WG as to the scope
   of the work, and the time frame. The 5 minutes seems to
   be the right ammount of time. (Also see the presentation
   http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06mar/slides/capwap-1.ppt )

With all of the time freed up, I suggest that the WG focus
on the following:
1) The state machine. It's way too late to ask Pat to walk
   through the state machine. But if he is willing, it would
   be quite useful. Why? Richard and others have brought
   up questions. (I have lots of markups that I haven't
   sent in yet. )
2) CAPWAP roadmap - most if not all vendors that are shipping
   "CAPWAP-like" products have many more features (such as
   multi-AC support, rogue detection and mitigation, and 
   QoS support) that are not included in CAPWAP-00. What
   might be the path to support them? Are there any common
   capabilities needed in CAPWAP to support the features?
   Are there any attributes that are needed in the first
   version of CAPWAP that would ease the addition of these
   capabilities?
3) When would be the best time to have an interim meeting?
4) Who is working on a "real" or prototype implementation,
   and what would be the best way to test interoperability?
5) Have all the required and optional information that
   is persistent across WTP reboots been identified, and
   are there messages to retrieve and modify each?

Regards,
/david t. perkins
 





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Hi,

CAPWAP Packet Formats described in section 4 (P#26) in the CAPWAP Protocol
Specification states that:
* For Data packers DTLS security is optional
* For Control pakcets DTLS security is required

Once Discovery phase completes, WTP will send ClientHello to its preferred
AC and wait for outcome of DTLS handshake. At the end of this handshake,
secured channel is established between AC and WTP.

I have a query regarding discovery operation. DTLS phase starts after
discovery phase (as per CAPWAP State Machine in section 2.2). If that is the
case, how can we send a discovery request, which is a control packet, with
DTLS header?

With Best Regards,
M.S. Basker

------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C64C17.71626370
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE></TITLE>

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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">Hi,</FONT><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D858544006-20032006>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D858544006-20032006>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>CAPWAP Packet Formats described in section 4 (P#26) in the =
CAPWAP=20
Protocol Specification states that:<BR>* For Data packers DTLS security =
is=20
optional<BR><FONT size=3D+0><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>* For=20
Control pakcets DTLS security is required</FONT></FONT><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2> </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Once Discovery phase completes, WTP will send ClientHello to =
its=20
preferred AC and wait for outcome of DTLS handshake. At the end of this=20
handshake, secured channel is established between AC and =
WTP.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>I have a query regarding discovery operation. DTLS phase starts =
after=20
discovery phase (as per CAPWAP State Machine in section 2.2). If that is =
the=20
case,&nbsp;how can we send a discovery request, which is a control =
packet, with=20
DTLS header? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>With Best Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>M.S. Basker</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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The discovery request is not dtls-encapsulated.

-----Original Message-----
>From: baskerms@future.futsoft.com
>Sent: Mar 19, 2006 10:41 PM
>To: capwap@frascone.com
>Subject: [Capwap] Discovery operation in CAPWAP
>
>Hi,
>
>CAPWAP Packet Formats described in section 4 (P#26) in the CAPWAP Protocol
>Specification states that:
>* For Data packers DTLS security is optional
>* For Control pakcets DTLS security is required
>
>Once Discovery phase completes, WTP will send ClientHello to its preferred
>AC and wait for outcome of DTLS handshake. At the end of this handshake,
>secured channel is established between AC and WTP.
>
>I have a query regarding discovery operation. DTLS phase starts after
>discovery phase (as per CAPWAP State Machine in section 2.2). If that is the
>case, how can we send a discovery request, which is a control packet, with
>DTLS header?
>
>With Best Regards,
>M.S. Basker

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Suggested change to agenda
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:56:59 -0800
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From: <Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com>
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Hi David-

Thanks for posting your comments on the agenda. It good to have this
before the meeting. =20
=20
I believe the capwap editors are planning summarize major issues and I
think time early in the meeting is warrented here.
Also there has been open issues with DTLS and CAPWAP security and we are
asking that SAAG provide a security advisor to our WG to help with these
issues, so the SAAG presentation needs to be understood by the WG.

I will ask the WG during the CAPWAP meeting to see if they want to defer
the Wimax presentation.
I'd like to keep the IEEE summary; usually this is fairly short.  I
don't believe all the WG members attend the IEEE.
The chairs presentation is 5 slides, most likely less than 5 minutes.

I'll move Richard Gwee's presentation after the CAPWAP Editors
presentation to group the CAPWAP draft issues.

So, Here is the modified agenda at this point:

WG Status:  5 minutes
IEEE update:  5 mintues
CAPWAP Protocol and Issues -30 minutes
CAPWAP Concerns by Richard Gwee - 15 minutes
CAPWAP Security - 30 mintues
CAPWAPHP - 10 minutes
MIB - 5 minutes
Wimax - 15 minutes

-Dorothy





=20

-----Original Message-----
From: ext David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins@dsperkins.com]=20
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:26 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Suggested change to agenda

HI,

The posted agenda for the CAPWAP meeting is the following:
1. WG status, Milestones, Issue Tracker,=20
   Protocol Draft Status: 10min.
2. IEEE Liaison Update - Dorothy Stanley (5 min.) 3. CAPWAP protocol -00
draft and Issues=20
   Discussion: Editor(s) - 30min
4. CAPWAP Protocol concerns: (Richard Gwee): 15 min 5. CAPWAP Protocol
applicability to WiMAX (Parviz Yegani): 15min.
6. CAPWAP security Discussions: (TBD) 15 min 7. CAPWAPHP draft & roaming
services: (Behcet Sarikaya) ? 10min.
8. MIB updates - Dave Perkins (5 min.)

I suggest the following changes:
 - item #1 be removed (or shortened to 2 minutes)
 - item #2 be removed. Any undates/changes/news can simply be
   posted to the WG mailing list.
 - item #3 be moved to the end of the meeting. (I believe
   that it may be too early in the CAPWAP protocol development
   to send significant time on resolving details before big
   picture items are resolved.)
 - item #4 - this and other high level concerns need to be
   discussed so that all can gain an understanding followed
   by a resolution.
 - item #5 to be removed. There has been no info presented
   on the WG mailing list. If there are design choices with
   CAPWAP that would need to be modified so that CAPWAP
   could support WiMax, then these should be brought
   to the attention of the WG. However, spending significant
   time on WiMax without any postings on the WG mailing
   list does not seem appropriate.
 - item #6 - security discussions. What are the issues?
   I thought that this was settled.
 - item #7 - the handover/roaming protocol. In some ways
   this is out of scope of the present charter, and should
   be defered until present issues worked out. See Mani's
   email message on Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:40:32 -0800 (PST).
   However, to support roaming (and other capabilities),
   an AC needs to be able to determine geographic proximity
   of WTPs to other WTPs to create bounds of "WiFi Clouds".
   I believe that this is an important attribute, but
   not sure if this is work that needs to be done
   now, or can be done later, because maybe it is
   part of base attributes of WTPs.
 - item #8 - MIB status. This is in the charter, but not
   much has happened. It seems like there needs to be some
   opportunity for getting a feel of the WG as to the scope
   of the work, and the time frame. The 5 minutes seems to
   be the right ammount of time. (Also see the presentation
   http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06mar/slides/capwap-1.ppt )

With all of the time freed up, I suggest that the WG focus on the
following:
1) The state machine. It's way too late to ask Pat to walk
   through the state machine. But if he is willing, it would
   be quite useful. Why? Richard and others have brought
   up questions. (I have lots of markups that I haven't
   sent in yet. )
2) CAPWAP roadmap - most if not all vendors that are shipping
   "CAPWAP-like" products have many more features (such as
   multi-AC support, rogue detection and mitigation, and=20
   QoS support) that are not included in CAPWAP-00. What
   might be the path to support them? Are there any common
   capabilities needed in CAPWAP to support the features?
   Are there any attributes that are needed in the first
   version of CAPWAP that would ease the addition of these
   capabilities?
3) When would be the best time to have an interim meeting?
4) Who is working on a "real" or prototype implementation,
   and what would be the best way to test interoperability?
5) Have all the required and optional information that
   is persistent across WTP reboots been identified, and
   are there messages to retrieve and modify each?

Regards,
/david t. perkins
=20





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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Mar 20 11:24:39 2006
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Subject: [Capwap] Proposal for updated State Machine
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HI,

Below is a proposal for an updated state machine:

   /-------------\                                                    
   |             v                                                      
   |       +------------+                                               
   |       | WTP-start  |<---------------------------------------+      
   |       +------------+                                       |       
   |        ^    |a                                             |       
   |        |    |                            y                 |       
   |        |    |              +-------------+------------+    |       
   |        |    |              |             | DTLS-rekey |    |       
   |        |    |              |  +--------->+------------+    |       
   |        |    |              |  |                  |6        ^       
   |        |    |              V  | x                V         |       
   |        |    |        +--------+--+       +------------+    |       
   |       /     |        |    Run    |------>| DTLS-Reset |<---|----\  
   |     /       |       r+-----------+     u +------------+    |     | 
   |    /        |              ^                ^     v|       |     | 
   |   |         v              |                |      |       |     | 
   |   |   +--------------+     |          /----/       V       |     | 
   |   |   |  Discovery   |    q|        k|           +-------+ |     | 
   |   |  b+--------------+    +-------------+        | Reset |-+ w   | 
   |   |     |d     f|  ^      |  Configure  |<--\    +-------+       | 
   |   |     |       |  |      +-------------+   |                    | 
   |   |e    v       |  |                        \----------\         | 
   |  +---------+    v  |i                                  |2        | 
   |  | Sulking |   +------------+    +--------------+    +---------+ | 
   |  +---------+   | DTLS-Init  |--->| DTLS-Complete|--->| Config1 | | 
   |                +------------+ z  +--------------+ x3 +---------+ | 
   |                   |h  ^                               |4         | 
   |                   |   |                               v        o / 
    \                  |   |                    +------------+-------/  
     \-----------------/   |x2                  | Image Data |          
                         +----------+           +------------+n
                         | AC-Start |           
                       x1+----------+           
                                                         

Changes:
1) Removed the "C" in all states
2) Renamed state "Idle" to "WTP start"
3) Removed transition "t" from "Run" to "WTP start(Idle)"
4) Added state "AC start" and "x1" and "x2"
   States:
     WTP-Start - the "start state" for WTPs
     AC-Start - the "start state for ACs
   Transitions:
     x1 - AC-Start to AC-Start - the AC recieves a Discover
          request message and responds with a Discovery
          response message
     x2 - AC-Start to DTLS-Init - the AC does this transition
          when it receives a ClientHello from a WTP 
5) Added start "Config1", renamed state "Configure" to "Config2",
   moved transition "2" from "DTLS-Complete" to "Configure"
   to "Config1" to "Config2", added transition "x3", and
   moved transition "4" from "DTL-Complete" to "Image Data"
   to "Config1" to "Image Data". The results are:
   States:
     Config1 - image version determination for the WTP
     Config2 - the "complete" initial configuration of
               a WTP
   Transitions:
     x3 - the DTLS session is established transition to
          state where the AC determines
          the WTP physical configuration, and the list of
          images available on the WTP, and the image that
          the WTP is running. 
     2 - The AC determined that the image that the WTP is
         running is appropriate and proceeds to a state
         to set the initial configuration of the WTP.
     4 - The AC determined that either that the WTP needs
         a new image, or that the WTP needs to be running
         a different image. Thus, it proceeds to a state
         to put (if needed) a new image on the WTP and
         set it to be used after the WTP resets.

Regards,
/david t. perkins

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Discovery operation in CAPWAP
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Hi Scott,

How can we tell the difference between Discovery Request and Client Hello?
On the AC, transition to DTLS-Init is after receiving Client Hello (and not
after transmitting Discovery Response). On the same port and in the same
state, we will be getting CAPWAP header and DTLS Header. We need to a way to
distinguish one from the other.

Regards,
-Rajesh Mohan


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 6:11 PM
To: basker.ms@flextronicssoftware.com; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Discovery operation in CAPWAP


The discovery request is not dtls-encapsulated.

-----Original Message-----
>From: baskerms@future.futsoft.com
>Sent: Mar 19, 2006 10:41 PM
>To: capwap@frascone.com
>Subject: [Capwap] Discovery operation in CAPWAP
>
>Hi,
>
>CAPWAP Packet Formats described in section 4 (P#26) in the CAPWAP Protocol
>Specification states that:
>* For Data packers DTLS security is optional
>* For Control pakcets DTLS security is required
>
>Once Discovery phase completes, WTP will send ClientHello to its preferred
>AC and wait for outcome of DTLS handshake. At the end of this handshake,
>secured channel is established between AC and WTP.
>
>I have a query regarding discovery operation. DTLS phase starts after
>discovery phase (as per CAPWAP State Machine in section 2.2). If that is
the
>case, how can we send a discovery request, which is a control packet, with
>DTLS header?
>
>With Best Regards,
>M.S. Basker

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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Scott Kelly" <skelly@arubanetworks.com>,
	<sujatha.varadarajan@flextronicssoftware.com>,
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> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding Richard's complaint. I thought=20
> he was concerned about the ambiguity as to how the AC knows=20
> which state to transition to, and that this ambiguity arose=20
> due to the fact that with the join removed, the AC has no=20
> idea which is appropriate - firmware upgrade vs configuration.=20
>=20
> I guess the question is, who makes the decision about the=20
> necessity of firmware upgrade: the AC or the WTP? You seem to=20
> indicate it should be the WTP, but I've been thinking it=20
> should be the AC. If this is correct, then placing the fields=20
> you've described above into the configure exchange resolve=20
> this. Am I missing something?

Currently, the AC communicates the info to the WTP, but it is the
latter who initiates the firmware download=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>, capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Proposal for updated State Machine
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I created Issue 85 to track this request.

Cheers,

	Mike  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David T. Perkins [mailto:dperkins@dsperkins.com] 
> Sent: March 20, 2006 11:24 AM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Proposal for updated State Machine
> 
> HI,
> 
> Below is a proposal for an updated state machine:
> 
>    /-------------\                                                    
>    |             v                                            
>           
>    |       +------------+                                     
>           
>    |       | WTP-start  
> |<---------------------------------------+      
>    |       +------------+                                     
>   |       
>    |        ^    |a                                           
>   |       
>    |        |    |                            y               
>   |       
>    |        |    |              +-------------+------------+  
>   |       
>    |        |    |              |             | DTLS-rekey |  
>   |       
>    |        |    |              |  +--------->+------------+  
>   |       
>    |        |    |              |  |                  |6      
>   ^       
>    |        |    |              V  | x                V       
>   |       
>    |        |    |        +--------+--+       +------------+  
>   |       
>    |       /     |        |    Run    |------>| DTLS-Reset 
> |<---|----\  
>    |     /       |       r+-----------+     u +------------+  
>   |     | 
>    |    /        |              ^                ^     v|     
>   |     | 
>    |   |         v              |                |      |     
>   |     | 
>    |   |   +--------------+     |          /----/       V     
>   |     | 
>    |   |   |  Discovery   |    q|        k|           
> +-------+ |     | 
>    |   |  b+--------------+    +-------------+        | Reset 
> |-+ w   | 
>    |   |     |d     f|  ^      |  Configure  |<--\    
> +-------+       | 
>    |   |     |       |  |      +-------------+   |            
>         | 
>    |   |e    v       |  |                        \----------\ 
>         | 
>    |  +---------+    v  |i                                  
> |2        | 
>    |  | Sulking |   +------------+    +--------------+    
> +---------+ | 
>    |  +---------+   | DTLS-Init  |--->| DTLS-Complete|--->| 
> Config1 | | 
>    |                +------------+ z  +--------------+ x3 
> +---------+ | 
>    |                   |h  ^                               |4 
>         | 
>    |                   |   |                               v  
>       o / 
>     \                  |   |                    
> +------------+-------/  
>      \-----------------/   |x2                  | Image Data 
> |          
>                          +----------+           +------------+n
>                          | AC-Start |           
>                        x1+----------+           
>                                                          
> 
> Changes:
> 1) Removed the "C" in all states
> 2) Renamed state "Idle" to "WTP start"
> 3) Removed transition "t" from "Run" to "WTP start(Idle)"
> 4) Added state "AC start" and "x1" and "x2"
>    States:
>      WTP-Start - the "start state" for WTPs
>      AC-Start - the "start state for ACs
>    Transitions:
>      x1 - AC-Start to AC-Start - the AC recieves a Discover
>           request message and responds with a Discovery
>           response message
>      x2 - AC-Start to DTLS-Init - the AC does this transition
>           when it receives a ClientHello from a WTP
> 5) Added start "Config1", renamed state "Configure" to "Config2",
>    moved transition "2" from "DTLS-Complete" to "Configure"
>    to "Config1" to "Config2", added transition "x3", and
>    moved transition "4" from "DTL-Complete" to "Image Data"
>    to "Config1" to "Image Data". The results are:
>    States:
>      Config1 - image version determination for the WTP
>      Config2 - the "complete" initial configuration of
>                a WTP
>    Transitions:
>      x3 - the DTLS session is established transition to
>           state where the AC determines
>           the WTP physical configuration, and the list of
>           images available on the WTP, and the image that
>           the WTP is running. 
>      2 - The AC determined that the image that the WTP is
>          running is appropriate and proceeds to a state
>          to set the initial configuration of the WTP.
>      4 - The AC determined that either that the WTP needs
>          a new image, or that the WTP needs to be running
>          a different image. Thus, it proceeds to a state
>          to put (if needed) a new image on the WTP and
>          set it to be used after the WTP resets.
> 
> Regards,
> /david t. perkins
> 
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Dear all,
  Before we forget, I wanted to wrap up the issues arising from today's 
presentation:
- Puneet's question on roaming, STA roaming not WTP roaming is what we 
are trying to do
- France Telecom colleague's question on the relationship with NEMO, 
NEMO and MIP try to provide the session continuity, i.e. try to keep the 
same IP address so that the sessions do not break after handover. This 
is not what CAPWAPHP is after. We are interested in roaming support  
that is needed to be included in the CAPWAP protocol.
- Pat mentioned that he was concerned on our model for Local MAC roaming 
handling in CAPWAPHP.
- Pat claimed that the Split MAC solution is already in CAPWAP protocol, 
however, of the two scenarios we have in CAPWAPHP only one of them is 
partially covered in CAPWAP.
 - Pat asked on inter-AC roaming, here the roaming scenario is where STA 
moves from a WTP in one domain, e.g. Verizon to a WTP in another domain, 
e.g. T-Mobile.
  Have I missed anything?
 
Regards,

--behcet
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Hi,

The inclusion of DTLS has not addressed most if any of my initial
comments when it was a standalone draft. Beyond the comments I'd
provided previously against the draft-kelly-capwap-lwapp-dtls draft, I
have a few more to add (though I stopped once I realized that most of my
original comments stand as well):

* The draft now states that DTLS can optionally be used to protect
datagrams.  This is quite surprising as I do not recall this being
discussed in great depth.  If it is to be considered, and since the data
plane is in a separate port, I would assume that 2 (D)TLS sessions may
be required?  If not, how will the sequence number in or anti-replay
detection mechanism of DTLS be maintained for both control and data
planes?

* Discovery to DTLS-Init state description:
  - The AC state reflects that it is a meta state, which is not quite
right.  Since there is a DTLS-complete, it is appropriate for the AC to
enter this state as it is initiating a potential connection with the
WTP.

* The descriptions for the WTP actions for the DTLS-Init to Idle and
DTLS-Init to Discovery seem too similar.  What is the difference between
an unsuccessful DTLS session establishment and a failed DTLS handshake?
A similar conflict arises in the AC's descriptions.

* The DTLS-Init to DTLS-Complete appears that it implies a successful
DTLS session establishment and should be explicitly stated so....though
I am not sure why there needs to be such a distinction unless a true
capture of the DTLS state machine is warranted and these 2 states do not
fully cover.
  - The explanation for WTP and AC needs to clarify how each party knows
the DTLS session is live and is authorized to begin protected traffic. =20

* Under which conditions does the AC goes from the DTLS-Init to Idle or
Discovery? There's an inconsistancy between the figure and the text.
That is, there are several events within the DTLS conversation at which
the AC may choose to fail and tear down the DTLS conversation.  My
suggestion is that when these fail, they should go back to the Idle
state.

* The DTLS-Reset state doesn't seem to make sense or is inconsistant
with the general LWAPP framework.  What does it mean to be in a
DTLS-Reset state?  Does it mean a full DTLS session must be established?
If so, then it is an effective Reset from the overall state machine
standpoint....
  - why does a new configuration warrant a DTLS-Reset?
  - why does an image update warrant a DTLS-Reset?
  - it seems that perhaps for both of the above, the WTP should go back
to Idle or DTLS-Init again.
  - a Run to DTLS-Reset should force a full CAPWAP Reset, so why not
merge and retain the original Reset as is?

* Why does a key refresh in the DTLS warrant a full state transition?
What is implied by a DTLS-Rekey?=20

	Nancy
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: "Nancy Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>,
	capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:18:00 -0500
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I've created two issues to track these comments:
- Issue 86 refers to edits to the DTLS text in the CAPWAP specification.
- Issue 87 deals with the feature request for securing the data channel with
DTLS.

I think these issues really need to be resolved independently.

Cheers,

	Mike 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nancy Winget (ncamwing) [mailto:ncamwing@cisco.com] 
> Sent: March 21, 2006 9:59 AM
> To: capwap
> Subject: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues
> Sensitivity: Personal
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The inclusion of DTLS has not addressed most if any of my 
> initial comments when it was a standalone draft. Beyond the 
> comments I'd provided previously against the 
> draft-kelly-capwap-lwapp-dtls draft, I have a few more to add 
> (though I stopped once I realized that most of my original 
> comments stand as well):
> 
> * The draft now states that DTLS can optionally be used to 
> protect datagrams.  This is quite surprising as I do not 
> recall this being discussed in great depth.  If it is to be 
> considered, and since the data plane is in a separate port, I 
> would assume that 2 (D)TLS sessions may be required?  If not, 
> how will the sequence number in or anti-replay detection 
> mechanism of DTLS be maintained for both control and data planes?
> 
> * Discovery to DTLS-Init state description:
>   - The AC state reflects that it is a meta state, which is 
> not quite right.  Since there is a DTLS-complete, it is 
> appropriate for the AC to enter this state as it is 
> initiating a potential connection with the WTP.
> 
> * The descriptions for the WTP actions for the DTLS-Init to 
> Idle and DTLS-Init to Discovery seem too similar.  What is 
> the difference between an unsuccessful DTLS session 
> establishment and a failed DTLS handshake?
> A similar conflict arises in the AC's descriptions.
> 
> * The DTLS-Init to DTLS-Complete appears that it implies a 
> successful DTLS session establishment and should be 
> explicitly stated so....though I am not sure why there needs 
> to be such a distinction unless a true capture of the DTLS 
> state machine is warranted and these 2 states do not fully cover.
>   - The explanation for WTP and AC needs to clarify how each 
> party knows the DTLS session is live and is authorized to 
> begin protected traffic.  
> 
> * Under which conditions does the AC goes from the DTLS-Init 
> to Idle or Discovery? There's an inconsistancy between the 
> figure and the text.
> That is, there are several events within the DTLS 
> conversation at which the AC may choose to fail and tear down 
> the DTLS conversation.  My suggestion is that when these 
> fail, they should go back to the Idle state.
> 
> * The DTLS-Reset state doesn't seem to make sense or is 
> inconsistant with the general LWAPP framework.  What does it 
> mean to be in a DTLS-Reset state?  Does it mean a full DTLS 
> session must be established?
> If so, then it is an effective Reset from the overall state 
> machine standpoint....
>   - why does a new configuration warrant a DTLS-Reset?
>   - why does an image update warrant a DTLS-Reset?
>   - it seems that perhaps for both of the above, the WTP 
> should go back to Idle or DTLS-Init again.
>   - a Run to DTLS-Reset should force a full CAPWAP Reset, so 
> why not merge and retain the original Reset as is?
> 
> * Why does a key refresh in the DTLS warrant a full state transition?
> What is implied by a DTLS-Rekey? 
> 
> 	Nancy
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> 
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:19:25 -0800
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From: "Nancy Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
To: "Michael Montemurro" <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>,
	"capwap" <capwap@frascone.com>
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Hi Mike,

Yes, that makes sense.  Thanks,

	Nancy.=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Montemurro [mailto:michael.montemurro@siemens.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:18 AM
To: Nancy Winget (ncamwing); capwap
Subject: RE: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues
Sensitivity: Personal

I've created two issues to track these comments:
- Issue 86 refers to edits to the DTLS text in the CAPWAP specification.
- Issue 87 deals with the feature request for securing the data channel
with DTLS.

I think these issues really need to be resolved independently.

Cheers,

	Mike=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nancy Winget (ncamwing) [mailto:ncamwing@cisco.com]
> Sent: March 21, 2006 9:59 AM
> To: capwap
> Subject: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues
> Sensitivity: Personal
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> The inclusion of DTLS has not addressed most if any of my initial=20
> comments when it was a standalone draft. Beyond the comments I'd=20
> provided previously against the draft-kelly-capwap-lwapp-dtls draft, I

> have a few more to add (though I stopped once I realized that most of=20
> my original comments stand as well):
>=20
> * The draft now states that DTLS can optionally be used to protect=20
> datagrams.  This is quite surprising as I do not recall this being=20
> discussed in great depth.  If it is to be considered, and since the=20
> data plane is in a separate port, I would assume that 2 (D)TLS=20
> sessions may be required?  If not, how will the sequence number in or=20
> anti-replay detection mechanism of DTLS be maintained for both control

> and data planes?
>=20
> * Discovery to DTLS-Init state description:
>   - The AC state reflects that it is a meta state, which is not quite=20
> right.  Since there is a DTLS-complete, it is appropriate for the AC=20
> to enter this state as it is initiating a potential connection with=20
> the WTP.
>=20
> * The descriptions for the WTP actions for the DTLS-Init to Idle and=20
> DTLS-Init to Discovery seem too similar.  What is the difference=20
> between an unsuccessful DTLS session establishment and a failed DTLS=20
> handshake?
> A similar conflict arises in the AC's descriptions.
>=20
> * The DTLS-Init to DTLS-Complete appears that it implies a successful=20
> DTLS session establishment and should be explicitly stated=20
> so....though I am not sure why there needs to be such a distinction=20
> unless a true capture of the DTLS state machine is warranted and these

> 2 states do not fully cover.
>   - The explanation for WTP and AC needs to clarify how each party=20
> knows the DTLS session is live and is authorized to begin protected=20
> traffic.
>=20
> * Under which conditions does the AC goes from the DTLS-Init to Idle=20
> or Discovery? There's an inconsistancy between the figure and the=20
> text.
> That is, there are several events within the DTLS conversation at=20
> which the AC may choose to fail and tear down the DTLS conversation. =20
> My suggestion is that when these fail, they should go back to the Idle

> state.
>=20
> * The DTLS-Reset state doesn't seem to make sense or is inconsistant=20
> with the general LWAPP framework.  What does it mean to be in a=20
> DTLS-Reset state?  Does it mean a full DTLS session must be=20
> established?
> If so, then it is an effective Reset from the overall state machine=20
> standpoint....
>   - why does a new configuration warrant a DTLS-Reset?
>   - why does an image update warrant a DTLS-Reset?
>   - it seems that perhaps for both of the above, the WTP should go=20
> back to Idle or DTLS-Init again.
>   - a Run to DTLS-Reset should force a full CAPWAP Reset, so why not=20
> merge and retain the original Reset as is?
>=20
> * Why does a key refresh in the DTLS warrant a full state transition?
> What is implied by a DTLS-Rekey?=20
>=20
> 	Nancy
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Nancy Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>,
	capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues
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I'm going to reply inline below, but I would suggest that if any questions remain, we break them out into per-issue threads (to keep the discussions coherent and manageable).

Also, for the benefit of those who were not at the working group meeting yesterday,  we noted in the meeting that there were lots of questions outstanding when the capwap-00 draft publication deadline approached, and rather than delay the release of that draft, we included the far-from-perfect text. I think we agreed in the wg meeting to form a small design team for the purpose of resolving these issues.

Further comments inline below...

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Nancy Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
>Sent: Mar 21, 2006 6:58 AM
>To: capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
>Subject: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues
>
>Hi,
>
>The inclusion of DTLS has not addressed most if any of my initial
>comments when it was a standalone draft. Beyond the comments I'd
>provided previously against the draft-kelly-capwap-lwapp-dtls draft, I
>have a few more to add (though I stopped once I realized that most of my
>original comments stand as well):
>
>* The draft now states that DTLS can optionally be used to protect
>datagrams.  This is quite surprising as I do not recall this being
>discussed in great depth.  If it is to be considered, and since the data
>plane is in a separate port, I would assume that 2 (D)TLS sessions may
>be required?  If not, how will the sequence number in or anti-replay
>detection mechanism of DTLS be maintained for both control and data
>planes?

Two comments: first, I agree that we should discuss whether this is required. I think we should break out that discussion into its own thread.

Perhaps one of the editors can add this to the issues tracker?

Secondly, DTLS is transport independent; the DTLS session is uniquely identified by the DTLS record layer. Combining this with the fact that DTLS is a datagram protocol, this net result is that a single DTLS security association may utilize multiple communication channels for transport (e.g. N separate ports) without penalty. I'm not arguing that we should do this - I think we need to address the underlying question of capwap data channel security before going there.

>* Discovery to DTLS-Init state description:
>  - The AC state reflects that it is a meta state, which is not quite
>right.  Since there is a DTLS-complete, it is appropriate for the AC to
>enter this state as it is initiating a potential connection with the
>WTP.

Yes, I agree that this is rough. There is fundamental tension here between the desire to provide DoS resistance (by remaining stateless until the last possible moment) and the desire to provide determinism in the state machine. I have some ideas about how to address this, but we need to decide something related to NAT traversal first. I will start a separate thread on that point so that we can move this forward.

>* The descriptions for the WTP actions for the DTLS-Init to Idle and
>DTLS-Init to Discovery seem too similar.  What is the difference between
>an unsuccessful DTLS session establishment and a failed DTLS handshake?
>A similar conflict arises in the AC's descriptions.

Agree. This was inadverantly included, and is confusing.

>* The DTLS-Init to DTLS-Complete appears that it implies a successful
>DTLS session establishment and should be explicitly stated so....though
>I am not sure why there needs to be such a distinction unless a true
>capture of the DTLS state machine is warranted and these 2 states do not
>fully cover.

Yes, the current intent is that DTLS-Complete implies an established session. We could change the state name (to DTLS-Established?) to make this more clear if that would help. There are currently two states as there are multiple exits possible from DTLS-Init (i.e. failure or success).  We could encode these multiple exits as separate transitions, but using separate states seems more clear.

This skirts a problem I noted when trying to edit the state machine: sometimes the emphasis is on the states, and sometimes the emphasis is on the transitions (moore vs mealy state machines?). This is quite confusing (to me, at least), and we should try to clean this up.

>  - The explanation for WTP and AC needs to clarify how each party knows
>the DTLS session is live and is authorized to begin protected traffic.  

Agree that we need more complete specification of the state transitions...

>* Under which conditions does the AC goes from the DTLS-Init to Idle or
>Discovery? There's an inconsistancy between the figure and the text.
>That is, there are several events within the DTLS conversation at which
>the AC may choose to fail and tear down the DTLS conversation.  My
>suggestion is that when these fail, they should go back to the Idle
>state.

Agree.

>* The DTLS-Reset state doesn't seem to make sense or is inconsistant
>with the general LWAPP framework.  What does it mean to be in a
>DTLS-Reset state?  Does it mean a full DTLS session must be established?

To be in DTLS-Reset implies that DTLS session tear-down has just completed, but there are still capwap session elements. That is, this state is entered when the DTLS security context has been destroyed. Once this occurs, DTLS notifies the capwap implementation, at which point capwap must destroy its session context (or re-initialize for a new session). 

>If so, then it is an effective Reset from the overall state machine
>standpoint....
>  - why does a new configuration warrant a DTLS-Reset?

I don't know. This change is propagated from lwapp-03 (where you can go from config to reset), and DTLS-reset is inserted ahead of the original reset transition. My guess is that the reset transition was intended for cases where the config change is so dramatic that a WTP reboot is required.

>  - why does an image update warrant a DTLS-Reset?

Again, so the wtp can reboot with the new image. There is a more subtle question lurking in the shadows here, though, and we can address this in the design team: should we support session resumption (a la TLS)?

>  - it seems that perhaps for both of the above, the WTP should go back
>to Idle or DTLS-Init again.
>  - a Run to DTLS-Reset should force a full CAPWAP Reset, so why not
>merge and retain the original Reset as is?

Because the DTLS session must be cleaned up first. I'd want to think about whether you'd want to collapse these into one state or not before saying more, but my gut feel is that separate states are warranted and add clarity to the spec. Still, let me think about this a bit more.

>* Why does a key refresh in the DTLS warrant a full state transition?
>What is implied by a DTLS-Rekey? 

This gets to some complexity which is not currently called out in the draft: DTLS does not provide support for session lifetimes - the controlling application must provide this functionality. This means we need to fully specify the rekeying interface between capwap and dtls.

As for whether it merits a full state transition, I think my original text said this is a meta-state, and that the rekeying happens "behind the scenes", below the awareness of capwap. However, I was wrong about that. Since capwap must provide the controls for this process, it must explicitly initiate the rekey, and it must decide to do if it fails. These factors lead me to believe that separate state is necessary.

Scott
 
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CAPWAP Editors,

The current security considerations section seems more like a 
placeholder than anything else.  Here's a new one that addresses a lot 
more issues.  I'm sure there's more that can be added, but I think it 
covers the major issues.


15.  Security Considerations

    This section describes security considerations for the CAPWAP
    protocol.  It also provides security recommendations for protocols
    used in conjunction with CAPWAP.

15.1.  CAPWAP Security

    As it is currently specified, the CAPWAP protocol sits between the
    security mechanisms specified by IEEE 802.11i and AAA.  One goal of
    CAPWAP is to bootstrap trust between the STA and WTP using a series
    of preestablished trust relationships.

      STA            WTP           AC            AAA
      ==============================================

                         DTLS Cred     AAA Cred
                      <------------><------------->

                      EAP Credential
       <------------------------------------------>

          802.11i PTK
       <-------------->
           (derived)

    Within CAPWAP, DTLS is used to secure the link between the WTP and
    AC.  In addition to securing control messages, it's also a link in
    this chain of trust for establishing client keys.  Consequently, much
    rests on the security of DTLS.

    The use of parallel protected and unprotected channels deserves
    special consideration, but does not create a threat.  There are two
    potential concerns: attempting to convert protected data into un-
    protected data and attempting to convert un-protected data into
    protected data.  The use of message authentication makes it
    impossible for the attacker to forge protected records.  The attacker
    can easily remove protected records from the stream (this is a
    consequence of unreliability), though not undetectably so.  If a non-
    encrypted cipher suite is in use, the attacker can turn such a record
    into an un-protected record.  However, this attack is really no
    different from simple injection into the unprotected stream.

    Perfect Forward Secrecy is not a requirement for the CAPWAP
    protocol, though it can be accomplished using a
    Diffie-Hellman-based DTLS ciphersuite, as described in sections
    10.1.1 and 10.1.2.

    When DTLS is used with a preshared-key (PSK) ciphersuite, each WTP
    SHOULD have a unique PSK.  Since WTPs will likely be widely
    deployed, their physical security is not guaranteed.  If PSKs are
    not unique for each WTP, key reuse would allow the compromise of
    one WTP to result in the compromise of others.  Generating PSKs
    from low entropy passwords is NOT RECOMMENDED.

    It is RECOMMENDED that implementations that allow the administrator
    to manually configure the PSK also provide a functionality for
    generating a new random PSK, taking RFC 1750 [4] into account.

    For public-key-based DTLS deployments, each device SHOULD have
    unique credentials, with a certificate profile authorizing them to
    act as either a WTP or AC.  Each device is responsible for
    authenticating and authorizing devices to which they communicate.

15.2.  IEEE 802.11i Security

    When used with an IEEE 802.11 infrastructure with WEP encryption,
    the CAPWAP protocol does not add any new vulnerabilities.  Derived
    session keys between the STA and WTP can be compromised, resulting
    in many well-documented attacks against IEEE 802.11.  Implementors
    SHOULD discourage the use of WEP to allow the market to move
    towards technically sound cryptographic solutions, such as IEEE
    802.11i.

    STA authentication in CAPWAP is performed using IEEE 802.lX, and
    consequently EAP.  Implementors SHOULD use EAP methods meeting
    the requirements specified in RFC 4017 [ref].  These properties
    include:

    * generation of symmetric keying material
    * strong session keys
    * mutual authentication
    * shared state equivalence
    * resistance to dictionary attacks
    * protection against man-in-the-middle attacks
    * protected ciphersuite negotiation

15.3.  AAA Security

    The AAA protocol is used to distribute EAP keys to the ACs, and
    consequently its security is important to the overall system
    security.  When used with TLS or IPsec, security guidelines
    specified in RFC 3539 [ref] SHOULD be followed.

    In general, the link between the AC and AAA server SHOULD be
    secured using a strong ciphersuite keyed with mutually
    authenticated session keys.  Basic RADIUS shared secret
    authentication SHOULD NOT be implemented, as it is often
    vulnerable to dictionary attacks.


[ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ]
[ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ]

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From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: Re: [Capwap] New Security Considerations Section
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I agree with Charles' assessment - the current text actually *is* a place-holder :-) 

I think the suggested text below looks good and should be added to the draft.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Clancy <clancy@cs.umd.edu>
>Sent: Mar 21, 2006 8:19 AM
>To: capwap@frascone.com
>Subject: [Capwap] New Security Considerations Section
>
>CAPWAP Editors,
>
>The current security considerations section seems more like a 
>placeholder than anything else.  Here's a new one that addresses a lot 
>more issues.  I'm sure there's more that can be added, but I think it 
>covers the major issues.
>
>
>15.  Security Considerations
>
>    This section describes security considerations for the CAPWAP
>    protocol.  It also provides security recommendations for protocols
>    used in conjunction with CAPWAP.
>
>15.1.  CAPWAP Security
>
>    As it is currently specified, the CAPWAP protocol sits between the
>    security mechanisms specified by IEEE 802.11i and AAA.  One goal of
>    CAPWAP is to bootstrap trust between the STA and WTP using a series
>    of preestablished trust relationships.
>
>      STA            WTP           AC            AAA
>      ==============================================
>
>                         DTLS Cred     AAA Cred
>                      <------------><------------->
>
>                      EAP Credential
>       <------------------------------------------>
>
>          802.11i PTK
>       <-------------->
>           (derived)
>
>    Within CAPWAP, DTLS is used to secure the link between the WTP and
>    AC.  In addition to securing control messages, it's also a link in
>    this chain of trust for establishing client keys.  Consequently, much
>    rests on the security of DTLS.
>
>    The use of parallel protected and unprotected channels deserves
>    special consideration, but does not create a threat.  There are two
>    potential concerns: attempting to convert protected data into un-
>    protected data and attempting to convert un-protected data into
>    protected data.  The use of message authentication makes it
>    impossible for the attacker to forge protected records.  The attacker
>    can easily remove protected records from the stream (this is a
>    consequence of unreliability), though not undetectably so.  If a non-
>    encrypted cipher suite is in use, the attacker can turn such a record
>    into an un-protected record.  However, this attack is really no
>    different from simple injection into the unprotected stream.
>
>    Perfect Forward Secrecy is not a requirement for the CAPWAP
>    protocol, though it can be accomplished using a
>    Diffie-Hellman-based DTLS ciphersuite, as described in sections
>    10.1.1 and 10.1.2.
>
>    When DTLS is used with a preshared-key (PSK) ciphersuite, each WTP
>    SHOULD have a unique PSK.  Since WTPs will likely be widely
>    deployed, their physical security is not guaranteed.  If PSKs are
>    not unique for each WTP, key reuse would allow the compromise of
>    one WTP to result in the compromise of others.  Generating PSKs
>    from low entropy passwords is NOT RECOMMENDED.
>
>    It is RECOMMENDED that implementations that allow the administrator
>    to manually configure the PSK also provide a functionality for
>    generating a new random PSK, taking RFC 1750 [4] into account.
>
>    For public-key-based DTLS deployments, each device SHOULD have
>    unique credentials, with a certificate profile authorizing them to
>    act as either a WTP or AC.  Each device is responsible for
>    authenticating and authorizing devices to which they communicate.
>
>15.2.  IEEE 802.11i Security
>
>    When used with an IEEE 802.11 infrastructure with WEP encryption,
>    the CAPWAP protocol does not add any new vulnerabilities.  Derived
>    session keys between the STA and WTP can be compromised, resulting
>    in many well-documented attacks against IEEE 802.11.  Implementors
>    SHOULD discourage the use of WEP to allow the market to move
>    towards technically sound cryptographic solutions, such as IEEE
>    802.11i.
>
>    STA authentication in CAPWAP is performed using IEEE 802.lX, and
>    consequently EAP.  Implementors SHOULD use EAP methods meeting
>    the requirements specified in RFC 4017 [ref].  These properties
>    include:
>
>    * generation of symmetric keying material
>    * strong session keys
>    * mutual authentication
>    * shared state equivalence
>    * resistance to dictionary attacks
>    * protection against man-in-the-middle attacks
>    * protected ciphersuite negotiation
>
>15.3.  AAA Security
>
>    The AAA protocol is used to distribute EAP keys to the ACs, and
>    consequently its security is important to the overall system
>    security.  When used with TLS or IPsec, security guidelines
>    specified in RFC 3539 [ref] SHOULD be followed.
>
>    In general, the link between the AC and AAA server SHOULD be
>    secured using a strong ciphersuite keyed with mutually
>    authenticated session keys.  Basic RADIUS shared secret
>    authentication SHOULD NOT be implemented, as it is often
>    vulnerable to dictionary attacks.
>
>
>[ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ]
>[ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ]
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>
>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap

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Hi Scott,

I believe Mike has separated the general DTLS comments/issues I posted
as issue 86 while the DTLS for data transport is issue 87.

Nonetheless, further comments to yours below:=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:58 AM
To: Nancy Winget (ncamwing); capwap
Subject: Re: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues

I'm going to reply inline below, but I would suggest that if any
questions remain, we break them out into per-issue threads (to keep the
discussions coherent and manageable).

Also, for the benefit of those who were not at the working group meeting
yesterday,  we noted in the meeting that there were lots of questions
outstanding when the capwap-00 draft publication deadline approached,
and rather than delay the release of that draft, we included the
far-from-perfect text. I think we agreed in the wg meeting to form a
small design team for the purpose of resolving these issues.

Further comments inline below...

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Nancy Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
>Sent: Mar 21, 2006 6:58 AM
>To: capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
>Subject: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues
>
>Hi,
>
>The inclusion of DTLS has not addressed most if any of my initial=20
>comments when it was a standalone draft. Beyond the comments I'd=20
>provided previously against the draft-kelly-capwap-lwapp-dtls draft, I=20
>have a few more to add (though I stopped once I realized that most of=20
>my original comments stand as well):
>
>* The draft now states that DTLS can optionally be used to protect=20
>datagrams.  This is quite surprising as I do not recall this being=20
>discussed in great depth.  If it is to be considered, and since the=20
>data plane is in a separate port, I would assume that 2 (D)TLS sessions

>may be required?  If not, how will the sequence number in or=20
>anti-replay detection mechanism of DTLS be maintained for both control=20
>and data planes?

Two comments: first, I agree that we should discuss whether this is
required. I think we should break out that discussion into its own
thread.
[NCW] Agreed....it's not clear to me that this was openly discussed
before and was surprised by its inclusion (albeit with lack of details)
in this draft.

Perhaps one of the editors can add this to the issues tracker?

Secondly, DTLS is transport independent; the DTLS session is uniquely
identified by the DTLS record layer. Combining this with the fact that
DTLS is a datagram protocol, this net result is that a single DTLS
security association may utilize multiple communication channels for
transport (e.g. N separate ports) without penalty. I'm not arguing that
we should do this - I think we need to address the underlying question
of capwap data channel security before going there.
[NCW] While I'm sure that a single DTLS security association can provide
the means of securing two different communication channels, I believe
updates to the DTLS and specifically to the applicability for CAPWAP
must be explicitly defined.  [D]TLS only describes the generation of
keying material for securing only a single channel, so consideration for
the extra material has to be explicitly defined.  Also, the security
considerations and threat models must also be provided.

>* Discovery to DTLS-Init state description:
>  - The AC state reflects that it is a meta state, which is not quite=20
>right.  Since there is a DTLS-complete, it is appropriate for the AC to

>enter this state as it is initiating a potential connection with the=20
>WTP.

Yes, I agree that this is rough. There is fundamental tension here
between the desire to provide DoS resistance (by remaining stateless
until the last possible moment) and the desire to provide determinism in
the state machine. I have some ideas about how to address this, but we
need to decide something related to NAT traversal first. I will start a
separate thread on that point so that we can move this forward.
[NCW] I will look forward to exploring this with you.

>* The descriptions for the WTP actions for the DTLS-Init to Idle and=20
>DTLS-Init to Discovery seem too similar.  What is the difference=20
>between an unsuccessful DTLS session establishment and a failed DTLS
handshake?
>A similar conflict arises in the AC's descriptions.

Agree. This was inadverantly included, and is confusing.

>* The DTLS-Init to DTLS-Complete appears that it implies a successful=20
>DTLS session establishment and should be explicitly stated so....though

>I am not sure why there needs to be such a distinction unless a true=20
>capture of the DTLS state machine is warranted and these 2 states do=20
>not fully cover.

Yes, the current intent is that DTLS-Complete implies an established
session. We could change the state name (to DTLS-Established?) to make
this more clear if that would help. There are currently two states as
there are multiple exits possible from DTLS-Init (i.e. failure or
success).  We could encode these multiple exits as separate transitions,
but using separate states seems more clear.

This skirts a problem I noted when trying to edit the state machine:
sometimes the emphasis is on the states, and sometimes the emphasis is
on the transitions (moore vs mealy state machines?). This is quite
confusing (to me, at least), and we should try to clean this up.
[NCW] I agree. The benefit of having included DTLS is having separated
the mechanism for securing the communication channel as well as
providing better agility for the crypto; however, such benefits
introduce more complexity than was originally specified.  Having stated
that, we may have to resort to such state machines as you suggest....it
may also be that we may have to resort splitting the state machines one
for the WTP and one for the AC. =20

>  - The explanation for WTP and AC needs to clarify how each party=20
>knows the DTLS session is live and is authorized to begin protected
traffic.

Agree that we need more complete specification of the state
transitions...

>* Under which conditions does the AC goes from the DTLS-Init to Idle or

>Discovery? There's an inconsistancy between the figure and the text.
>That is, there are several events within the DTLS conversation at which

>the AC may choose to fail and tear down the DTLS conversation.  My=20
>suggestion is that when these fail, they should go back to the Idle=20
>state.

Agree.

>* The DTLS-Reset state doesn't seem to make sense or is inconsistant=20
>with the general LWAPP framework.  What does it mean to be in a=20
>DTLS-Reset state?  Does it mean a full DTLS session must be
established?

To be in DTLS-Reset implies that DTLS session tear-down has just
completed, but there are still capwap session elements. That is, this
state is entered when the DTLS security context has been destroyed. Once
this occurs, DTLS notifies the capwap implementation, at which point
capwap must destroy its session context (or re-initialize for a new
session).=20
[NCW] Okay, it seems that we agree in principle, though I think from the
state machine, there seems to be an implication that a DTLS-Reset does
not force a "capwap" reset.  I believe that whether the DTLS-Reset fails
or succeeds, it must be in conjuction with a "capwap" reset.

>If so, then it is an effective Reset from the overall state machine=20
>standpoint....
>  - why does a new configuration warrant a DTLS-Reset?

I don't know. This change is propagated from lwapp-03 (where you can go
from config to reset), and DTLS-reset is inserted ahead of the original
reset transition. My guess is that the reset transition was intended for
cases where the config change is so dramatic that a WTP reboot is
required.
[NCW] Ah, got it.  My question went more to the original comment of
converging DTLS-Reset and Reset into the same state.

>  - why does an image update warrant a DTLS-Reset?

Again, so the wtp can reboot with the new image. There is a more subtle
question lurking in the shadows here, though, and we can address this in
the design team: should we support session resumption (a la TLS)?
[NCW] Same comment as above.  Though, I think we do need to be somewhat
careful between a full teardown of DTLS vs. a session resumption.  I'd
prefer that the resumption be construed as a "rekey" (which I don't
believe needs to be called out as a separate state) and the DTLS-reset
should be a full teardown of the DTLS session.

>  - it seems that perhaps for both of the above, the WTP should go back

>to Idle or DTLS-Init again.
>  - a Run to DTLS-Reset should force a full CAPWAP Reset, so why not=20
>merge and retain the original Reset as is?

Because the DTLS session must be cleaned up first. I'd want to think
about whether you'd want to collapse these into one state or not before
saying more, but my gut feel is that separate states are warranted and
add clarity to the spec. Still, let me think about this a bit more.
[NCW] Fair enough.  I do believe that they can be merged as the reset
imho would imply initiating the DTLS teardown as well as the "capwap"
particular cleanup.

>* Why does a key refresh in the DTLS warrant a full state transition?
>What is implied by a DTLS-Rekey?=20

This gets to some complexity which is not currently called out in the
draft: DTLS does not provide support for session lifetimes - the
controlling application must provide this functionality. This means we
need to fully specify the rekeying interface between capwap and dtls.
[NCW] Rekeying was part of the original draft, albeit the lifetimes were
not explicitly called out.  Though, this may be construed as policy
driven?

As for whether it merits a full state transition, I think my original
text said this is a meta-state, and that the rekeying happens "behind
the scenes", below the awareness of capwap. However, I was wrong about
that. Since capwap must provide the controls for this process, it must
explicitly initiate the rekey, and it must decide to do if it fails.
These factors lead me to believe that separate state is necessary.
[NCW] Hmmm...I will have to think about promoting the rekey into a full
state as well....your comment of rekey failures forcing a teardown
(Reset?) is fair.

Scott
=20
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Dear All,

=20

Below is a summary of the points that I have presented during the CAPWAP
session regarding the CAPWAP protocol concerns.

=20

Issue 1: Change of State Machine.

=20

There is a need to provide a clearer State Machine as some of the
transitions between states are not clearly indicated. For example, from
the DTLS-complete to the Configure State or Image Data State, there is
no clear explanation on the basis of how the transition should be
carried out. I have noticed from the Mailing list that there have been
proposals to change the State Machine. Similar issues have also been
listed on the issue trackers. We should take a close look into creating
a viable State Machine first.

=20

Reference:=20

Issue Tracker: Issue #85

Mailing List: Email by Sujay (" Addition to SM and Configure States")
dated 17 March 2006.

=20

Issue 2: Load Balancing For WTP

=20

Message element in WTP Manager (Section 5.2.4 and 5.2.5) only contains
IP addresses and WTP count. While I do not condone the use of WTP count,
I strongly believe that effective load balancing cannot be performed
just using these parameters. There is a need to include more parameters
such as Traffic loading, network congestion etc. Although Pat Calhoun
has mentioned that such parameters capture only a snapshot of the
network conditions, I believe that this problem can be resolved through
the use of periodic updating of capturing the network conditions.
Furthermore, what Pat has argued is mainly scenario specific under fast
mobility conditions. I will appreciate if Pat can clarify more on the
reason why my suggestion may not be practical enough. I welcome any
feedback.

=20

I will appreciate if this can become an issue on the issue tracker.

=20

Issue 3: General Statistics

=20

There is a need to include general statistics for CAPWAP protocol. So
far, I have noticed only statistics that is technology-bind (in this
case 802.11) as stated in the draft.  There is a need to have statistics
that is applicable for the overall network such as congestion, traffic
loading, channel interferences etc. This type of information can be
piggy backed on regular messages exchange such as echo request. This
issue has been listed in the tracker.

=20

Reference:

Issue Tracker: Issue #84, #45,=20

Comparative Analysis Draft (Section 4.6.1)

=20

Issue 4: Firmware Trigger

=20

There is little clear indication on the State Machine of how firmware
trigger should be carried out in the running state. Firmware Management
has also been stated as optional in the draft specification. To ensure
consistent firmware version, we should made firmware management
mandatory and introduce proactive firmware trigger in the running state.
Pat has suggested the use of making firmware management mandatory for AC
and optional for WTP. I am ok with the suggestion.

=20

Reference:

Issue Tracker: Issue #40

Comparative Analysis Draft (Section 4.1.5)

=20

I appreciate any comments and feedback if I have missed out anything.

=20

Thanks and regards

Richard Gwee.



Republic Polytechnic, 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, Singapore 738964 (Near =
Woodlands MRT/Interchange)
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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Dear All,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Below is a summary of the points that I have =
presented during
the CAPWAP session regarding the CAPWAP protocol =
concerns.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue 1: Change of State Machine.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>There is a need to provide a clearer State Machine as =
some
of the transitions between states are not clearly indicated. For =
example, from
the DTLS-complete to the Configure State or Image
 Data State,
there is no clear explanation on the basis of how the transition should =
be
carried out. I have noticed from the Mailing list that there have been
proposals to change the State Machine. Similar issues have also been =
listed on
the issue trackers. We should take a close look into creating a viable =
State
Machine first.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Reference: </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue Tracker: Issue #85</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Mailing List: Email by Sujay (&#8220; Addition to SM =
and Configure States&#8221;) dated 17 March 2006.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue 2: Load Balancing For WTP</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Message element in WTP Manager (Section 5.2.4 and =
5.2.5)
only contains IP addresses and WTP count. While I do not condone the use =
of WTP
count, I strongly believe that effective load balancing cannot be =
performed
just using these parameters. There is a need to include more parameters =
such as
Traffic loading, network congestion etc. Although Pat Calhoun has =
mentioned
that such parameters capture only a snapshot of the network conditions, =
I
believe that this problem can be resolved through the use of periodic =
updating
of capturing the network conditions. Furthermore, what Pat has argued is =
mainly
scenario specific under fast mobility conditions. I will appreciate if =
Pat can
clarify more on the reason why my suggestion may not be practical =
enough. I
welcome any feedback.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I will appreciate if this can become an issue on the =
issue
tracker.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue 3: General Statistics</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>There is a need to include general statistics for =
CAPWAP
protocol. So far, I have noticed only statistics that is technology-bind =
(in
this case 802.11) as stated in the draft. &nbsp;There is a need to have
statistics that is applicable for the overall network such as =
congestion,
traffic loading, channel interferences etc. This type of information can =
be
piggy backed on regular messages exchange such as echo request. This =
issue has
been listed in the tracker.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Reference:</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue Tracker: Issue #84, #45, </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Comparative Analysis Draft (Section =
4.6.1)</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue 4: Firmware Trigger</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>There is little clear indication on the State Machine =
of how
firmware trigger should be carried out in the running state. Firmware
Management has also been stated as optional in the draft specification. =
To
ensure consistent firmware version, we should made firmware management
mandatory and introduce proactive firmware trigger in the running state. =
Pat
has suggested the use of making firmware management mandatory for AC and
optional for WTP. I am ok with the suggestion.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Reference:</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue Tracker: Issue #40</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Comparative Analysis Draft (Section =
4.1.5)</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I appreciate any comments and feedback if I have =
missed out
anything.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks and regards</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Richard Gwee.</span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:54:19 +0530
From: "R M" <rm0771@gmail.com>
To: "Richard Gwee" <richard_gwee@rp.sg>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] CAPWAP Protocol Concerns Summary
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On AC, how can you tell if the packet is "CAPWAP Discovery Request" or
"DTLS Client Hello". If this is an issue and is not covered in any of the
ones listed below, please add this to the list.

If this is not an issue, I request someone to tell me how I can
differentiate the too. To me, I can see both the packets coming to AC in th=
e
same state (due to retransmissions or the WTP getting reset or similar
scenarios).

Thanks.


On 3/22/06, Richard Gwee <richard_gwee@rp.sg> wrote:
>
>  Dear All,
>
>
>
> Below is a summary of the points that I have presented during the CAPWAP
> session regarding the CAPWAP protocol concerns.
>
>
>
> Issue 1: Change of State Machine.
>
>
>
> There is a need to provide a clearer State Machine as some of the
> transitions between states are not clearly indicated. For example, from t=
he
> DTLS-complete to the Configure State or Image Data State, there is no cle=
ar
> explanation on the basis of how the transition should be carried out. I h=
ave
> noticed from the Mailing list that there have been proposals to change th=
e
> State Machine. Similar issues have also been listed on the issue trackers=
.
> We should take a close look into creating a viable State Machine first.
>
>
>
> Reference:
>
> Issue Tracker: Issue #85
>
> Mailing List: Email by Sujay (" Addition to SM and Configure States")
> dated 17 March 2006.
>
>
>
> Issue 2: Load Balancing For WTP
>
>
>
> Message element in WTP Manager (Section 5.2.4 and 5.2.5) only contains IP
> addresses and WTP count. While I do not condone the use of WTP count, I
> strongly believe that effective load balancing cannot be performed just
> using these parameters. There is a need to include more parameters such a=
s
> Traffic loading, network congestion etc. Although Pat Calhoun has mention=
ed
> that such parameters capture only a snapshot of the network conditions, I
> believe that this problem can be resolved through the use of periodic
> updating of capturing the network conditions. Furthermore, what Pat has
> argued is mainly scenario specific under fast mobility conditions. I will
> appreciate if Pat can clarify more on the reason why my suggestion may no=
t
> be practical enough. I welcome any feedback.
>
>
>
> I will appreciate if this can become an issue on the issue tracker.
>
>
>
> Issue 3: General Statistics
>
>
>
> There is a need to include general statistics for CAPWAP protocol. So far=
,
> I have noticed only statistics that is technology-bind (in this case
> 802.11) as stated in the draft.  There is a need to have statistics that
> is applicable for the overall network such as congestion, traffic loading=
,
> channel interferences etc. This type of information can be piggy backed o=
n
> regular messages exchange such as echo request. This issue has been liste=
d
> in the tracker.
>
>
>
> Reference:
>
> Issue Tracker: Issue #84, #45,
>
> Comparative Analysis Draft (Section 4.6.1)
>
>
>
> Issue 4: Firmware Trigger
>
>
>
> There is little clear indication on the State Machine of how firmware
> trigger should be carried out in the running state. Firmware Management h=
as
> also been stated as optional in the draft specification. To ensure
> consistent firmware version, we should made firmware management mandatory
> and introduce proactive firmware trigger in the running state. Pat has
> suggested the use of making firmware management mandatory for AC and
> optional for WTP. I am ok with the suggestion.
>
>
>
> Reference:
>
> Issue Tracker: Issue #40
>
> Comparative Analysis Draft (Section 4.1.5)
>
>
>
> I appreciate any comments and feedback if I have missed out anything.
>
>
>
> Thanks and regards
>
> Richard Gwee.
>
> ------------------------------
>
>    Republic Polytechnic, 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, Singapore 738964 (Near
> Woodlands MRT/Interchange)
> . *www.rp.sg* <http://www.rp.sg/> . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .
>
> *Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully
> adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to stri=
ve
> towards best practices and maintain excellence in service standards with =
the
> following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class (SIC), Singapore
> Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001
> and OHSAS 18001)*
> ------------------------------
>
>   CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of
> the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information
> that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, =
are
> not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or cop=
y
> this communication. If you have received this communication in error, ple=
ase
> notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Th=
ank
> you.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
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> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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>

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<div>On AC, how can you tell if the packet is &quot;CAPWAP Discovery Reques=
t&quot; or&nbsp; &quot;DTLS Client Hello&quot;. If this is an issue and is =
not covered in any of the ones listed below, please add this to the list. <=
/div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>If this is not an issue, I request someone to tell&nbsp;me&nbsp;how I =
can differentiate the too. To me, I can see both the packets coming to AC i=
n the same state (due to retransmissions or the WTP getting reset or simila=
r scenarios).
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks.<br><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 3/22/06, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">=
Richard Gwee</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg">richard_gwee@rp.=
sg</a>&gt; wrote:</span>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr">
<div>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Dear All,</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Below is a summary of the points that I have presented during t=
he CAPWAP session regarding the CAPWAP protocol concerns.</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Issue 1: Change of State Machine.</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">There is a need to provide a clearer State Machine as some of t=
he transitions between states are not clearly indicated. For example, from =
the DTLS-complete to the Configure State or Image Data State, there is no c=
lear explanation on the basis of how the transition should be carried out. =
I have noticed from the Mailing list that there have been proposals to chan=
ge the State Machine. Similar issues have also been listed on the issue tra=
ckers. We should take a close look into creating a viable State Machine fir=
st.
</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Reference: </span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Issue Tracker: Issue #85</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Mailing List: Email by Sujay (" Addition to SM and Configure St=
ates") dated 17 March 2006.</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Issue 2: Load Balancing For WTP</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Message element in WTP Manager (Section 5.2.4 and 5.2.5) only c=
ontains IP addresses and WTP count. While I do not condone the use of WTP c=
ount, I strongly believe that effective load balancing cannot be performed =
just using these parameters. There is a need to include more parameters suc=
h as Traffic loading, network congestion etc. Although Pat Calhoun has ment=
ioned that such parameters capture only a snapshot of the network condition=
s, I believe that this problem can be resolved through the use of periodic =
updating of capturing the network conditions. Furthermore, what Pat has arg=
ued is mainly scenario specific under fast mobility conditions. I will appr=
eciate if Pat can clarify more on the reason why my suggestion may not be p=
ractical enough. I welcome any feedback.
</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">I will appreciate if this can become an issue on the issue trac=
ker.</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Issue 3: General Statistics</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">There is a need to include general statistics for CAPWAP protoc=
ol. So far, I have noticed only statistics that is technology-bind (in this=
 case=20
802.11) as stated in the draft. &nbsp;There is a need to have statistics th=
at is applicable for the overall network such as congestion, traffic loadin=
g, channel interferences etc. This type of information can be piggy backed =
on regular messages exchange such as echo request. This issue has been list=
ed in the tracker.
</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Reference:</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Issue Tracker: Issue #84, #45, </span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Comparative Analysis Draft (Section 4.6.1)</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Issue 4: Firmware Trigger</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">There is little clear indication on the State Machine of how fi=
rmware trigger should be carried out in the running state. Firmware Managem=
ent has also been stated as optional in the draft specification. To ensure =
consistent firmware version, we should made firmware management mandatory a=
nd introduce proactive firmware trigger in the running state. Pat has sugge=
sted the use of making firmware management mandatory for AC and optional fo=
r WTP. I am ok with the suggestion.
</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Reference:</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Issue Tracker: Issue #40</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Comparative Analysis Draft (Section 4.1.5)</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">I appreciate any comments and feedback if I have missed out any=
thing.</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
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<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Thanks and regards</span></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">Richard Gwee.</span></font></p></div>
<p align=3D"center"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><font color=3D"#0000ff=
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<p align=3D"center"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Republic Polytechnic, 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, =
Singapore 738964 (Near Woodlands MRT/Interchange)</span><br>. </font><a tit=
le=3D"http://www.rp.edu.sg/" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,ev=
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<p align=3D"center"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"1"><i>Republic Polytechni=
c, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully adopt the Problem-Based =
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e Developer Standards and QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)
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Hi Richard,
  Way back last summer I had posted an email on the typos in LWAPP, I do 
not know if your list contains those. Just in case I am attaching the 
email here (posted on August 3, 2005):
BR,
--behcet

All,
In Section 2.2 on LWAPP State Machine Definition, the transitions (or 
state transitions) have consistently been referred to as "state"s which 
is certainly wrong.
Here is an example:
Discovery to Discovery (b): This is the state the WTP uses to
     determine which AC it wishes to connect to.
b is certainly a transition not a state.

Section is repeated in referring to the section names as in:
section Section 5.2.3.

There is another one on page 89 (Section 11.1.1),
The WTP processes the probe request and responds with a
     corresponding probe response.  The problem request is then
     forwarded to the AC for optional processing.
Shouldn't the problem request be the probe request?
On page 92,
(see section Section 11.7.1.1. the paranthesis was not closed.
In Section 11.7.1.1 there is the following sentence:
An AC that wishes to update a
  mobile's policy on an WTP may be done by simply sending a new Add
  Mobile message element.

... (possibly some others).
 A note on the semantics, in Section 11.1 on Split MAC, two terms 
(verbs) that are used, forwards and tunnels with no clear definition in 
Section 3 on LWAPP transport. One possible interpretation is, for 
example, WTP sends an associate request frame as LWAPP Data Frame but AC 
replies with Add Mobile Request which is sent in a control frame.
 Is this correct interpretation? It seems not, because in some other 
parts, LWAPP data frame forwarding is referred to as tunneling.
 If a state machine for a few important aspects were defined, much of 
the ambiguity would be avoided.
 The other candidate protocols, time permitting, but for now, that's it.

Regards,

--behcet

Richard Gwee wrote:

> Dear All,
>
>  
>
> Below is a summary of the points that I have presented during the 
> CAPWAP session regarding the CAPWAP protocol concerns.
>
>  
>
> Issue 1: Change of State Machine.
>
>  
>
> There is a need to provide a clearer State Machine as some of the 
> transitions between states are not clearly indicated. For example, 
> from the DTLS-complete to the Configure State or Image Data State, 
> there is no clear explanation on the basis of how the transition 
> should be carried out. I have noticed from the Mailing list that there 
> have been proposals to change the State Machine. Similar issues have 
> also been listed on the issue trackers. We should take a close look 
> into creating a viable State Machine first.
>
>  
>
> Reference:
>
> Issue Tracker: Issue #85
>
> Mailing List: Email by Sujay (" Addition to SM and Configure States") 
> dated 17 March 2006.
>
>  
>
> Issue 2: Load Balancing For WTP
>
>  
>
> Message element in WTP Manager (Section 5.2.4 and 5.2.5) only contains 
> IP addresses and WTP count. While I do not condone the use of WTP 
> count, I strongly believe that effective load balancing cannot be 
> performed just using these parameters. There is a need to include more 
> parameters such as Traffic loading, network congestion etc. Although 
> Pat Calhoun has mentioned that such parameters capture only a snapshot 
> of the network conditions, I believe that this problem can be resolved 
> through the use of periodic updating of capturing the network 
> conditions. Furthermore, what Pat has argued is mainly scenario 
> specific under fast mobility conditions. I will appreciate if Pat can 
> clarify more on the reason why my suggestion may not be practical 
> enough. I welcome any feedback.
>
>  
>
> I will appreciate if this can become an issue on the issue tracker.
>
>  
>
> Issue 3: General Statistics
>
>  
>
> There is a need to include general statistics for CAPWAP protocol. So 
> far, I have noticed only statistics that is technology-bind (in this 
> case 802.11) as stated in the draft.  There is a need to have 
> statistics that is applicable for the overall network such as 
> congestion, traffic loading, channel interferences etc. This type of 
> information can be piggy backed on regular messages exchange such as 
> echo request. This issue has been listed in the tracker.
>
>  
>
> Reference:
>
> Issue Tracker: Issue #84, #45,
>
> Comparative Analysis Draft (Section 4.6.1)
>
>  
>
> Issue 4: Firmware Trigger
>
>  
>
> There is little clear indication on the State Machine of how firmware 
> trigger should be carried out in the running state. Firmware 
> Management has also been stated as optional in the draft 
> specification. To ensure consistent firmware version, we should made 
> firmware management mandatory and introduce proactive firmware trigger 
> in the running state. Pat has suggested the use of making firmware 
> management mandatory for AC and optional for WTP. I am ok with the 
> suggestion.
>
>  
>
> Reference:
>
> Issue Tracker: Issue #40
>
> Comparative Analysis Draft (Section 4.1.5)
>
>  
>
> I appreciate any comments and feedback if I have missed out anything.
>
>  
>
> Thanks and regards
>
> Richard Gwee.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Republic Polytechnic, 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, Singapore 738964 (Near 
> Woodlands MRT/Interchange)
> . www.rp.sg <http://www.rp.sg> . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .
>
> Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully 
> adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to 
> strive towards best practices and maintain excellence in service 
> standards with the following certifications: Singapore Innovation 
> Class (SIC), Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards 
> and QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of 
> the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains 
> information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of 
> this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not 
> disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have 
> received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by 
> return email and delete the original message. Thank you.
>
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>
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Hi Richard,<br>
&nbsp; Way back last summer I had posted an email on the typos in LWAPP, I
do not know if your list contains those. Just in case I am attaching
the email here (posted on August 3, 2005):<br>
BR,<br>
--behcet<br>
<br>
All,
<br>
In Section 2.2 on LWAPP State Machine Definition, the transitions (or
state transitions) have consistently been referred to as "state"s which
is certainly wrong.
<br>
Here is an example:
<br>
Discovery to Discovery (b): This is the state the WTP uses to
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; determine which AC it wishes to connect to.
<br>
b is certainly a transition not a state.
<br>
<br>
Section is repeated in referring to the section names as in:
<br>
section Section 5.2.3.
<br>
<br>
There is another one on page 89 (Section 11.1.1),
<br>
The WTP processes the probe request and responds with a
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; corresponding probe response.&nbsp; The problem request is then
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; forwarded to the AC for optional processing.
<br>
Shouldn't the problem request be the probe request?
<br>
On page 92,
<br>
(see section Section 11.7.1.1. the paranthesis was not closed.
<br>
In Section 11.7.1.1 there is the following sentence:
<br>
An AC that wishes to update a
<br>
&nbsp; mobile's policy on an WTP may be done by simply sending a new Add
<br>
&nbsp; Mobile message element.
<br>
<br>
... (possibly some others).
<br>
&nbsp;A note on the semantics, in Section 11.1 on Split MAC, two terms
(verbs) that are used, forwards and tunnels with no clear definition in
Section 3 on LWAPP transport. One possible interpretation is, for
example, WTP sends an associate request frame as LWAPP Data Frame but
AC replies with Add Mobile Request which is sent in a control frame.
<br>
&nbsp;Is this correct interpretation? It seems not, because in some other
parts, LWAPP data frame forwarding is referred to as tunneling.
<br>
&nbsp;If a state machine for a few important aspects were defined, much of
the ambiguity would be avoided.
<br>
&nbsp;The other candidate protocols, time permitting, but for now, that's
it.
<br>
<br>
Regards,
<br>
<br>
--behcet
<br>
<br>
Richard Gwee wrote:<br>
<blockquote
 cite="mid9C374CF75527504394E573E1937136C40298BEB2@staff-mail.rp.edu.sg"
 type="cite">
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  <div class="Section1">
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Dear All,</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Below is a summary of the
points that I have presented during
the CAPWAP session regarding the CAPWAP protocol concerns.</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Issue 1: Change of State
Machine.</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">There is a need to
provide a clearer State Machine as some
of the transitions between states are not clearly indicated. For
example, from
the DTLS-complete to the Configure State or Image Data State,
there is no clear explanation on the basis of how the transition should
be
carried out. I have noticed from the Mailing list that there have been
proposals to change the State Machine. Similar issues have also been
listed on
the issue trackers. We should take a close look into creating a viable
State
Machine first.</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Reference: </span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Issue Tracker: Issue #85</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Mailing List: Email by
Sujay (&#8220; Addition to SM and Configure States&#8221;) dated 17 March 2006.</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Issue 2: Load Balancing
For WTP</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Message element in WTP
Manager (Section 5.2.4 and 5.2.5)
only contains IP addresses and WTP count. While I do not condone the
use of WTP
count, I strongly believe that effective load balancing cannot be
performed
just using these parameters. There is a need to include more parameters
such as
Traffic loading, network congestion etc. Although Pat Calhoun has
mentioned
that such parameters capture only a snapshot of the network conditions,
I
believe that this problem can be resolved through the use of periodic
updating
of capturing the network conditions. Furthermore, what Pat has argued
is mainly
scenario specific under fast mobility conditions. I will appreciate if
Pat can
clarify more on the reason why my suggestion may not be practical
enough. I
welcome any feedback.</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">I will appreciate if this
can become an issue on the issue
tracker.</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Issue 3: General
Statistics</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">There is a need to
include general statistics for CAPWAP
protocol. So far, I have noticed only statistics that is
technology-bind (in
this case 802.11) as stated in the draft. &nbsp;There is a need to have
statistics that is applicable for the overall network such as
congestion,
traffic loading, channel interferences etc. This type of information
can be
piggy backed on regular messages exchange such as echo request. This
issue has
been listed in the tracker.</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Reference:</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Issue Tracker: Issue #84,
#45, </span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Comparative Analysis
Draft (Section 4.6.1)</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Issue 4: Firmware Trigger</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">There is little clear
indication on the State Machine of how
firmware trigger should be carried out in the running state. Firmware
Management has also been stated as optional in the draft specification.
To
ensure consistent firmware version, we should made firmware management
mandatory and introduce proactive firmware trigger in the running
state. Pat
has suggested the use of making firmware management mandatory for AC
and
optional for WTP. I am ok with the suggestion.</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Reference:</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Issue Tracker: Issue #40</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Comparative Analysis
Draft (Section 4.1.5)</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">I appreciate any comments
and feedback if I have missed out
anything.</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Thanks and regards</span></font></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Richard Gwee.</span></font></p>
  </div>
<!--[object_id=#rp.sg#]-->
  <p align="center"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><font color="#0000ff"><font
 color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
  <hr></font></font></font></p>
  <p align="center">
  <table width="100%">
    <tbody>
      <tr>
        <td width="100%">
        <p align="center"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">Republic Polytechnic, <st1:Street
 w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">9 Woodlands Avenue</st1:address></st1:Street>
9, <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Singapore</st1:place></st1:country-region>
738964 (Near Woodlands MRT/Interchange)</span><br>
. </font><a title="http://www.rp.edu.sg/" href="http://www.rp.sg"><font
 title="http://www.rp.edu.sg/" color="blue" face="Tahoma" size="2"><u
 title="http://www.rp.edu.sg/">www.rp.sg</u></font></a><font
 face="Tahoma" size="2"> . Fax: +65 6415-1310 . </font></p>
        </td>
      </tr>
      <tr>
        <td>
        <p align="center"><font face="Tahoma" size="1"><i>Republic
Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully adopt the
Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to strive
towards best practices and maintain excellence in service standards
with the following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class (SIC),
Singapore Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and QEHS (ISO
9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001)</i></font></p>
        </td>
      </tr>
    </tbody>
  </table>
  </p>
  <hr>
  <div align="center">
  <table width="100%">
    <tbody>
      <tr>
        <td width="100%"><font face="Tahoma" size="1">CONFIDENTIALITY
CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or
entity to whom it is addressed and contains information that is
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not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or
copy this communication. If you have received this communication in
error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the
original message. Thank you. </font></td>
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    </tbody>
  </table>
  </div>
  <pre wrap="">
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:53:21 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
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Hi All,

A group of us met yesterday to discuss dtls integration, and one related design point pertains to nat traversal. In particular, how we decide to handle directly impacts the design for dtls integration, so we want to get this resolved ASAP.

In the original lwapp-dtls draft, we discussed two options for differentiation: use a mux header, or use separate UDP ports, one for data and one for control. Initial agreement seems to be on the two-port approach, but this has nat-t implications.

Assume we're using two ports; in that case, the problem we have to solve is many ways similar to the one solved by the ipsec group (I'll use NAT rather than NAPT, as it's simpler to type :-)):

- the WTP sends a DISCOVER to the AC; note that if this is broadcast, no reply would be possible using a standard NAT implementation, as the NAT binding would be to the tuple (WTP-IP, BCAST-IP, UDP, WTP-PORT, AC-PORT). Since the response would not be from BCAST-IP, standard NAT implementations would drop it. This implies directed DISCOVER messages

- *if* the AC responds within the NAT binding timeout period (while the mapping record still exists on the middlebox), the WTP will receive the response; otherwise, it will be silently dropped

- assuming the WTP receives the response and wants to associate with the AC, it initiates the JOIN process (yes, the JOIN must be brought back, more on that later). One or both sides must also start a heartbeat over this channel in order to keep the NAPT binding(s) active.

- one point we skipped is that of NAT detection. You could always send heartbeats, regardless of the presence of NAT, but if you use the two-port method, you must detect NAT in any case (for reasons that will become obvious soon). The way IPsec handled this is to have the WTP include it's IP and port in one of the messages (in our case, during the JOIN), and having the AC compare this to the adress in the packet header; if they differ, the AC must inform the WTP of this in the response.

- NAT detection may be used as an indicator that heartbeat messages are needed. Note that the interval should probably be configurable (with sensible defaults),  as there is no standard NAT mapping lifetime.

Okay, so now we have the control channel. The first data channel message must be from a STA trying to associate. The WTP bundles this up and sends it to the AC - how does the AC associate this with a given WTP? Note that there is no guarantee the data channel will have the same source address as the control channel (L3 switching, load balancing), so we need a binding mechanism to associate the data and control channels, from the AC's perspective.

We could do this by placing the same session ID as used for the control channel into the data channel capwap header, but this header will be encrypted once dtls starts, adding some complexity to packet handling. Also, we need to manage heartbeats over this channel as well, and since we're doing dtls on this channel, we have to decide whether to encrypt these or not. If we don't, we've added new processing coplexity on both sides. If we do, we're chewing through our counter/iv space, meaning we have to take the heartbeat interval into rekey consideration for purposes of lifetime computations.

Okay, so clearly, using separate ports has some complexity associated with it. What about using a mux header instead? By this, I mean adding a field between the udp header and the 'data' (capwap header or dtls record layer header) to distinguish the two:

+----+-----+------+---------+
|  IP | UDP | mux | data    |
+----+-----+------+---------+

Let's say the mux header is 32 bits, and we use only one of these (for the time being) to indicate control/data (this is  much like the lwapp 'c' bit). What are the differences in this approach? Two issues have been raised:

- it adds 4 bytes to the packet

- it is unprotected

To the first, I would reply that this is a trade-off, the price you pay for greatly reduced complexity. But yes, the cost is 4 bytes

To the second point, I would reply that Eric addressed this in the security considerations of the lwapp-dtls draft: there are two things an adversary might attempt here: converting protected data into unprotected data (data channel into control channel), and vice versa. 

Now, keep in mind that an attacker must be a MiM to do this, implying they can insert and delete packets at will anyway. If the adversary converts a data packet (unencrypted) to a control packet, decryption/authentication will fail, and this will be detected. If the adversary converts a control packet (encrypted, authenticated) to a data packet, it will be interpreted as garbage - again, it will be detected. 

The bottom line: there is no threat here that does not exist in the two-port case. They are equivalent in this respect. 

In the plus column, I think we can say that the mux header approach is simpler, in that the NAT-T concerns only apply to one channel, and the binding between control and data channels is unambiguous. Further, it gives the ability to provide a single de-muxing channel in the code for inbound packet handling, which may be advantageous, depending on implementation nuances.

We decided at our meeting yesterday that for these reasons, the mux header approach seems the most sensible. Does anyone object?

--Scott

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From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
To: R M <rm0771@gmail.com>, Richard Gwee <richard_gwee@rp.sg>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] CAPWAP Protocol Concerns Summary
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See my latest post regarding NAT-T. Also, I ask that everyone be patient for a little longer. A group of us met yesterday to discuss dtls integration and state machine issues, and I think we've come up with a plan which allows us to address most open issues. I'm in the process of writing up our conclusions for submission to the lmailing ist, and Charles is working on a new state machine diagram. 

-----Original Message-----
>From: R M <rm0771@gmail.com>
>Sent: Mar 22, 2006 8:24 AM
>To: Richard Gwee <richard_gwee@rp.sg>
>Cc: capwap@frascone.com
>Subject: Re: [Capwap] CAPWAP Protocol Concerns Summary
>
>On AC, how can you tell if the packet is "CAPWAP Discovery Request" or
>"DTLS Client Hello". If this is an issue and is not covered in any of the
>ones listed below, please add this to the list.
>
>If this is not an issue, I request someone to tell me how I can
>differentiate the too. To me, I can see both the packets coming to AC in the
>same state (due to retransmissions or the WTP getting reset or similar
>scenarios).
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>On 3/22/06, Richard Gwee <richard_gwee@rp.sg> wrote:
>>
>>  Dear All,
>>
>>
>>
>> Below is a summary of the points that I have presented during the CAPWAP
>> session regarding the CAPWAP protocol concerns.
>>
>>
>>
>> Issue 1: Change of State Machine.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is a need to provide a clearer State Machine as some of the
>> transitions between states are not clearly indicated. For example, from the
>> DTLS-complete to the Configure State or Image Data State, there is no clear
>> explanation on the basis of how the transition should be carried out. I have
>> noticed from the Mailing list that there have been proposals to change the
>> State Machine. Similar issues have also been listed on the issue trackers.
>> We should take a close look into creating a viable State Machine first.
>>
>>
>>
>> Reference:
>>
>> Issue Tracker: Issue #85
>>
>> Mailing List: Email by Sujay (" Addition to SM and Configure States")
>> dated 17 March 2006.
>>
>>
>>
>> Issue 2: Load Balancing For WTP
>>
>>
>>
>> Message element in WTP Manager (Section 5.2.4 and 5.2.5) only contains IP
>> addresses and WTP count. While I do not condone the use of WTP count, I
>> strongly believe that effective load balancing cannot be performed just
>> using these parameters. There is a need to include more parameters such as
>> Traffic loading, network congestion etc. Although Pat Calhoun has mentioned
>> that such parameters capture only a snapshot of the network conditions, I
>> believe that this problem can be resolved through the use of periodic
>> updating of capturing the network conditions. Furthermore, what Pat has
>> argued is mainly scenario specific under fast mobility conditions. I will
>> appreciate if Pat can clarify more on the reason why my suggestion may not
>> be practical enough. I welcome any feedback.
>>
>>
>>
>> I will appreciate if this can become an issue on the issue tracker.
>>
>>
>>
>> Issue 3: General Statistics
>>
>>
>>
>> There is a need to include general statistics for CAPWAP protocol. So far,
>> I have noticed only statistics that is technology-bind (in this case
>> 802.11) as stated in the draft.  There is a need to have statistics that
>> is applicable for the overall network such as congestion, traffic loading,
>> channel interferences etc. This type of information can be piggy backed on
>> regular messages exchange such as echo request. This issue has been listed
>> in the tracker.
>>
>>
>>
>> Reference:
>>
>> Issue Tracker: Issue #84, #45,
>>
>> Comparative Analysis Draft (Section 4.6.1)
>>
>>
>>
>> Issue 4: Firmware Trigger
>>
>>
>>
>> There is little clear indication on the State Machine of how firmware
>> trigger should be carried out in the running state. Firmware Management has
>> also been stated as optional in the draft specification. To ensure
>> consistent firmware version, we should made firmware management mandatory
>> and introduce proactive firmware trigger in the running state. Pat has
>> suggested the use of making firmware management mandatory for AC and
>> optional for WTP. I am ok with the suggestion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Reference:
>>
>> Issue Tracker: Issue #40
>>
>> Comparative Analysis Draft (Section 4.1.5)
>>
>>
>>
>> I appreciate any comments and feedback if I have missed out anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks and regards
>>
>> Richard Gwee.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>    Republic Polytechnic, 9 Woodlands Avenue 9, Singapore 738964 (Near
>> Woodlands MRT/Interchange)
>> . *www.rp.sg* <http://www.rp.sg/> . Fax: +65 6415-1310 .
>>
>> *Republic Polytechnic, the first Institute of Higher Learning to fully
>> adopt the Problem-Based Learning approach in Singapore, continues to strive
>> towards best practices and maintain excellence in service standards with the
>> following certifications: Singapore Innovation Class (SIC), Singapore
>> Quality Class (SQC), People Developer Standards and QEHS (ISO 9001, 14001
>> and OHSAS 18001)*
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>   CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: This message is intended only for the use of
>> the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information
>> that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are
>> not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy
>> this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please
>> notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Thank
>> you.
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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Correction:

>We could do this by placing the same session ID as used for the control channel into the data
> channel capwap header, but this header will be encrypted once dtls starts, adding some complexity
> to packet handling. 

Doh! We won't be encrypting the data channel, so that's wrong, but the rest of the discussion remains the same. Sorry about that, must need more coffee :-)

Scott



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Subject: RE: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:33:57 -0800
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From: "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>
To: "Nancy Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>,
	"Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>,
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Hi,
As I mentioned at the meeting, I too was quite surprised at
the inclusion of DTLS protection on the data path without
any prior discussion and without enough details.

1. It's not clear to me that DTLS protection of the
data tunnel is necessary.
Vendors who decrypt packets at the WTP clearly think the
path from WTP to the AC is secure.  Others carry 802.11i
encryption all the way to the AC and would not require DTLS.
So, why complicate the spec with this additional mode ?

2. The next issue is whether the same key should be used to
protect the control and data tunnels. If not, there has to
be a way to initiate multiple DTLS sessions.

3. Also, is there a current restriction that there can be=20
ONLY one data tunnel ? The way the current spec is written
it seems that multiple data tunnels is possible.
Although a single UDP port may be used at the=20
AC, multiple ports could be used at the WTP to define
multiple data tunnels identified by=20
   (WTP-IP, WTP_port, AC-IP, AC-PORT)

For example, some vendor may want multiple data=20
tunnels to distinguish traffic frm different VLANs, or BSSIDs or
traffic for different service providers at a hot spot.
If this is possible, it seems that mutiple DTLS sessions
will be quite likely.

Thanks,
   Abhijit




-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Winget (ncamwing) [mailto:ncamwing@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:46 AM
To: Scott G. Kelly; capwap
Subject: RE: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues


Hi Scott,

I believe Mike has separated the general DTLS comments/issues I posted
as issue 86 while the DTLS for data transport is issue 87.

Nonetheless, further comments to yours below:=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:58 AM
To: Nancy Winget (ncamwing); capwap
Subject: Re: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues

I'm going to reply inline below, but I would suggest that if any
questions remain, we break them out into per-issue threads (to keep the
discussions coherent and manageable).

Also, for the benefit of those who were not at the working group meeting
yesterday,  we noted in the meeting that there were lots of questions
outstanding when the capwap-00 draft publication deadline approached,
and rather than delay the release of that draft, we included the
far-from-perfect text. I think we agreed in the wg meeting to form a
small design team for the purpose of resolving these issues.

Further comments inline below...

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Nancy Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
>Sent: Mar 21, 2006 6:58 AM
>To: capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
>Subject: [Capwap] DTLS comments, questions and issues
>
>Hi,
>
>The inclusion of DTLS has not addressed most if any of my initial
>comments when it was a standalone draft. Beyond the comments I'd=20
>provided previously against the draft-kelly-capwap-lwapp-dtls draft, I=20
>have a few more to add (though I stopped once I realized that most of=20
>my original comments stand as well):
>
>* The draft now states that DTLS can optionally be used to protect
>datagrams.  This is quite surprising as I do not recall this being=20
>discussed in great depth.  If it is to be considered, and since the=20
>data plane is in a separate port, I would assume that 2 (D)TLS sessions

>may be required?  If not, how will the sequence number in or
>anti-replay detection mechanism of DTLS be maintained for both control=20
>and data planes?

Two comments: first, I agree that we should discuss whether this is
required. I think we should break out that discussion into its own
thread. [NCW] Agreed....it's not clear to me that this was openly
discussed before and was surprised by its inclusion (albeit with lack of
details) in this draft.

Perhaps one of the editors can add this to the issues tracker?

Secondly, DTLS is transport independent; the DTLS session is uniquely
identified by the DTLS record layer. Combining this with the fact that
DTLS is a datagram protocol, this net result is that a single DTLS
security association may utilize multiple communication channels for
transport (e.g. N separate ports) without penalty. I'm not arguing that
we should do this - I think we need to address the underlying question
of capwap data channel security before going there. [NCW] While I'm sure
that a single DTLS security association can provide the means of
securing two different communication channels, I believe updates to the
DTLS and specifically to the applicability for CAPWAP must be explicitly
defined.  [D]TLS only describes the generation of keying material for
securing only a single channel, so consideration for the extra material
has to be explicitly defined.  Also, the security considerations and
threat models must also be provided.

>* Discovery to DTLS-Init state description:
>  - The AC state reflects that it is a meta state, which is not quite
>right.  Since there is a DTLS-complete, it is appropriate for the AC to

>enter this state as it is initiating a potential connection with the
>WTP.

Yes, I agree that this is rough. There is fundamental tension here
between the desire to provide DoS resistance (by remaining stateless
until the last possible moment) and the desire to provide determinism in
the state machine. I have some ideas about how to address this, but we
need to decide something related to NAT traversal first. I will start a
separate thread on that point so that we can move this forward. [NCW] I
will look forward to exploring this with you.

>* The descriptions for the WTP actions for the DTLS-Init to Idle and
>DTLS-Init to Discovery seem too similar.  What is the difference=20
>between an unsuccessful DTLS session establishment and a failed DTLS
handshake?
>A similar conflict arises in the AC's descriptions.

Agree. This was inadverantly included, and is confusing.

>* The DTLS-Init to DTLS-Complete appears that it implies a successful
>DTLS session establishment and should be explicitly stated so....though

>I am not sure why there needs to be such a distinction unless a true
>capture of the DTLS state machine is warranted and these 2 states do=20
>not fully cover.

Yes, the current intent is that DTLS-Complete implies an established
session. We could change the state name (to DTLS-Established?) to make
this more clear if that would help. There are currently two states as
there are multiple exits possible from DTLS-Init (i.e. failure or
success).  We could encode these multiple exits as separate transitions,
but using separate states seems more clear.

This skirts a problem I noted when trying to edit the state machine:
sometimes the emphasis is on the states, and sometimes the emphasis is
on the transitions (moore vs mealy state machines?). This is quite
confusing (to me, at least), and we should try to clean this up. [NCW] I
agree. The benefit of having included DTLS is having separated the
mechanism for securing the communication channel as well as providing
better agility for the crypto; however, such benefits introduce more
complexity than was originally specified.  Having stated that, we may
have to resort to such state machines as you suggest....it may also be
that we may have to resort splitting the state machines one for the WTP
and one for the AC. =20

>  - The explanation for WTP and AC needs to clarify how each party
>knows the DTLS session is live and is authorized to begin protected
traffic.

Agree that we need more complete specification of the state
transitions...

>* Under which conditions does the AC goes from the DTLS-Init to Idle or

>Discovery? There's an inconsistancy between the figure and the text.
>That is, there are several events within the DTLS conversation at which

>the AC may choose to fail and tear down the DTLS conversation.  My=20
>suggestion is that when these fail, they should go back to the Idle=20
>state.

Agree.

>* The DTLS-Reset state doesn't seem to make sense or is inconsistant=20
>with the general LWAPP framework.  What does it mean to be in a=20
>DTLS-Reset state?  Does it mean a full DTLS session must be
established?

To be in DTLS-Reset implies that DTLS session tear-down has just
completed, but there are still capwap session elements. That is, this
state is entered when the DTLS security context has been destroyed. Once
this occurs, DTLS notifies the capwap implementation, at which point
capwap must destroy its session context (or re-initialize for a new
session).=20
[NCW] Okay, it seems that we agree in principle, though I think from the
state machine, there seems to be an implication that a DTLS-Reset does
not force a "capwap" reset.  I believe that whether the DTLS-Reset fails
or succeeds, it must be in conjuction with a "capwap" reset.

>If so, then it is an effective Reset from the overall state machine=20
>standpoint....
>  - why does a new configuration warrant a DTLS-Reset?

I don't know. This change is propagated from lwapp-03 (where you can go
from config to reset), and DTLS-reset is inserted ahead of the original
reset transition. My guess is that the reset transition was intended for
cases where the config change is so dramatic that a WTP reboot is
required.
[NCW] Ah, got it.  My question went more to the original comment of
converging DTLS-Reset and Reset into the same state.

>  - why does an image update warrant a DTLS-Reset?

Again, so the wtp can reboot with the new image. There is a more subtle
question lurking in the shadows here, though, and we can address this in
the design team: should we support session resumption (a la TLS)?
[NCW] Same comment as above.  Though, I think we do need to be somewhat
careful between a full teardown of DTLS vs. a session resumption.  I'd
prefer that the resumption be construed as a "rekey" (which I don't
believe needs to be called out as a separate state) and the DTLS-reset
should be a full teardown of the DTLS session.

>  - it seems that perhaps for both of the above, the WTP should go back

>to Idle or DTLS-Init again.
>  - a Run to DTLS-Reset should force a full CAPWAP Reset, so why not=20
>merge and retain the original Reset as is?

Because the DTLS session must be cleaned up first. I'd want to think
about whether you'd want to collapse these into one state or not before
saying more, but my gut feel is that separate states are warranted and
add clarity to the spec. Still, let me think about this a bit more.
[NCW] Fair enough.  I do believe that they can be merged as the reset
imho would imply initiating the DTLS teardown as well as the "capwap"
particular cleanup.

>* Why does a key refresh in the DTLS warrant a full state transition?
>What is implied by a DTLS-Rekey?=20

This gets to some complexity which is not currently called out in the
draft: DTLS does not provide support for session lifetimes - the
controlling application must provide this functionality. This means we
need to fully specify the rekeying interface between capwap and dtls.
[NCW] Rekeying was part of the original draft, albeit the lifetimes were
not explicitly called out.  Though, this may be construed as policy
driven?

As for whether it merits a full state transition, I think my original
text said this is a meta-state, and that the rekeying happens "behind
the scenes", below the awareness of capwap. However, I was wrong about
that. Since capwap must provide the controls for this process, it must
explicitly initiate the rekey, and it must decide to do if it fails.
These factors lead me to believe that separate state is necessary.
[NCW] Hmmm...I will have to think about promoting the rekey into a full
state as well....your comment of rekey failures forcing a teardown
(Reset?) is fair.

Scott
=20
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:40:44 -0800
From: "Dorothy Stanley" <dstanley1389@gmail.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] Editorial question - Location of Message elements
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All,

In the -00 draft, the CAPWAP message elements are defined in multiple
sections, specifically the section defining
the first message in which a particular message element appears.

I propose to collect all of the message element definitions in a single
section, so that there is
one place where they are all defined, and can easily be found.

Is there any objection to proceeding with this editorial change?

At the CAPWAP meeting on Monday, there seemed to be support for this
approach, with
Pat noting that he LWAPP draft at one point was organized this way, but was
then changed, due to
comments received. So, comments please on this proposed editorial change to
the CAPWAP  draft specification.

Thanks,

Dorothy

-----------------
Dorothy Stanley
Aruba Networks
630-363-1389 (cell) 630-836-9734 (office)

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">All,<br>
<br>
In the -00 draft, the CAPWAP
message elements are defined in multiple sections, specifically the section=
 defining<br>
the first message in which a
particular message element appears. </span></p>






<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I propose to collec=
t all of
the message element definitions in a single section, so that there is<br>
one place where they are all
defined, and can easily be found.</span></p>




<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Is there any object=
ion to
proceeding with this editorial change?</span></p>












<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">At the CAPWAP meeti=
ng on
Monday, there seemed to be support for this approach, with<br>
Pat noting that he LWAPP
draft at one point was organized this way, but was then changed, due to <br=
>
comments received. So, comments please on this proposed editorial change to=
 the CAPWAP&nbsp; draft specification.</span></p>




<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Thanks,</span></p>




<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Dorothy</span></p>




<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailAutoSig"><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
0pt;">-----------------</span></a><br>
<span style=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Dorothy Stanley</span><br=
>
<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Aruba</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt=
;"> Networks<br>
630-363-1389 (cell) 630-836-9734
(office)</span></span></p>


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From: "Fatima Peter" <fatima.peter@u4eatech.com>
To: <capwap@frascone.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:41:49 -0800
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Subject: [Capwap] Plans for verification for CAPWAP interoperability
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Hello,

     We have implemented last 2 versions of LWAPP and is (bug)
compatible/inter-operable between our own AC & AP implementation.

     We are currently looking at the CAPWAP draft and wonder what are the
plans for interoperability verifications.

 

     Basically, following are my questions:

 

(i)                   What are the plans for inter-operability testing?

(ii)                 Is there a minimal set of requirements for
interoperability? For example, if an AP cannot support one of the config
setting (e.g RTS threshold), is t considered non-interoperable?

 

Thanks & Regards,

 

Fatima



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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hello,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We have implemented last 2 =
versions
of LWAPP and is (bug) compatible/inter-operable between our own AC &amp; =
AP
implementation.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We are currently looking at =
the
CAPWAP draft and wonder what are the plans for interoperability =
verifications.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Basically, following are my
questions:</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>(i)<font =
size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>What are the plans for inter-operability =
testing?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>(ii)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Is there a minimal set of requirements for
interoperability? For example, if an AP cannot support one of the config
setting (e.g RTS threshold), is t considered =
non-interoperable?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks &amp; Regards,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>Fatima</span></font></p>

</div>

<BR><PRE>
</pre><BR>
</body>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:27:33 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] NAT-T
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>,
	"capwap" <capwap@frascone.com>
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Scott,

I'm not sure I follow.

Are you stating that the MUX is a replacement for the dual UDP port
solution? The latter allows existing NATs to handle the packet, while
the MUX is useful at the application layer. That said, I'm not sure that
I understand why we cannot rely on the BSSID in the 802.11 frame to
identify the WTP.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:53 AM
> To: capwap
> Subject: [Capwap] NAT-T
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> A group of us met yesterday to discuss dtls integration, and=20
> one related design point pertains to nat traversal. In=20
> particular, how we decide to handle directly impacts the=20
> design for dtls integration, so we want to get this resolved ASAP.
>=20
> In the original lwapp-dtls draft, we discussed two options=20
> for differentiation: use a mux header, or use separate UDP=20
> ports, one for data and one for control. Initial agreement=20
> seems to be on the two-port approach, but this has nat-t implications.
>=20
> Assume we're using two ports; in that case, the problem we=20
> have to solve is many ways similar to the one solved by the=20
> ipsec group (I'll use NAT rather than NAPT, as it's simpler=20
> to type :-)):
>=20
> - the WTP sends a DISCOVER to the AC; note that if this is=20
> broadcast, no reply would be possible using a standard NAT=20
> implementation, as the NAT binding would be to the tuple=20
> (WTP-IP, BCAST-IP, UDP, WTP-PORT, AC-PORT). Since the=20
> response would not be from BCAST-IP, standard NAT=20
> implementations would drop it. This implies directed DISCOVER messages
>=20
> - *if* the AC responds within the NAT binding timeout period=20
> (while the mapping record still exists on the middlebox), the=20
> WTP will receive the response; otherwise, it will be silently dropped
>=20
> - assuming the WTP receives the response and wants to=20
> associate with the AC, it initiates the JOIN process (yes,=20
> the JOIN must be brought back, more on that later). One or=20
> both sides must also start a heartbeat over this channel in=20
> order to keep the NAPT binding(s) active.
>=20
> - one point we skipped is that of NAT detection. You could=20
> always send heartbeats, regardless of the presence of NAT,=20
> but if you use the two-port method, you must detect NAT in=20
> any case (for reasons that will become obvious soon). The way=20
> IPsec handled this is to have the WTP include it's IP and=20
> port in one of the messages (in our case, during the JOIN),=20
> and having the AC compare this to the adress in the packet=20
> header; if they differ, the AC must inform the WTP of this in=20
> the response.
>=20
> - NAT detection may be used as an indicator that heartbeat=20
> messages are needed. Note that the interval should probably=20
> be configurable (with sensible defaults),  as there is no=20
> standard NAT mapping lifetime.
>=20
> Okay, so now we have the control channel. The first data=20
> channel message must be from a STA trying to associate. The=20
> WTP bundles this up and sends it to the AC - how does the AC=20
> associate this with a given WTP? Note that there is no=20
> guarantee the data channel will have the same source address=20
> as the control channel (L3 switching, load balancing), so we=20
> need a binding mechanism to associate the data and control=20
> channels, from the AC's perspective.
>=20
> We could do this by placing the same session ID as used for=20
> the control channel into the data channel capwap header, but=20
> this header will be encrypted once dtls starts, adding some=20
> complexity to packet handling. Also, we need to manage=20
> heartbeats over this channel as well, and since we're doing=20
> dtls on this channel, we have to decide whether to encrypt=20
> these or not. If we don't, we've added new processing=20
> coplexity on both sides. If we do, we're chewing through our=20
> counter/iv space, meaning we have to take the heartbeat=20
> interval into rekey consideration for purposes of lifetime=20
> computations.
>=20
> Okay, so clearly, using separate ports has some complexity=20
> associated with it. What about using a mux header instead? By=20
> this, I mean adding a field between the udp header and the=20
> 'data' (capwap header or dtls record layer header) to=20
> distinguish the two:
>=20
> +----+-----+------+---------+
> |  IP | UDP | mux | data    |
> +----+-----+------+---------+
>=20
> Let's say the mux header is 32 bits, and we use only one of=20
> these (for the time being) to indicate control/data (this is =20
> much like the lwapp 'c' bit). What are the differences in=20
> this approach? Two issues have been raised:
>=20
> - it adds 4 bytes to the packet
>=20
> - it is unprotected
>=20
> To the first, I would reply that this is a trade-off, the=20
> price you pay for greatly reduced complexity. But yes, the=20
> cost is 4 bytes
>=20
> To the second point, I would reply that Eric addressed this=20
> in the security considerations of the lwapp-dtls draft: there=20
> are two things an adversary might attempt here: converting=20
> protected data into unprotected data (data channel into=20
> control channel), and vice versa.=20
>=20
> Now, keep in mind that an attacker must be a MiM to do this,=20
> implying they can insert and delete packets at will anyway.=20
> If the adversary converts a data packet (unencrypted) to a=20
> control packet, decryption/authentication will fail, and this=20
> will be detected. If the adversary converts a control packet=20
> (encrypted, authenticated) to a data packet, it will be=20
> interpreted as garbage - again, it will be detected.=20
>=20
> The bottom line: there is no threat here that does not exist=20
> in the two-port case. They are equivalent in this respect.=20
>=20
> In the plus column, I think we can say that the mux header=20
> approach is simpler, in that the NAT-T concerns only apply to=20
> one channel, and the binding between control and data=20
> channels is unambiguous. Further, it gives the ability to=20
> provide a single de-muxing channel in the code for inbound=20
> packet handling, which may be advantageous, depending on=20
> implementation nuances.
>=20
> We decided at our meeting yesterday that for these reasons,=20
> the mux header approach seems the most sensible. Does anyone object?
>=20
> --Scott
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
	capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
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Yes, I'm suggesting use of one port with a mux header rather than 2 ports: it's much simpler operationally.

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
>Sent: Mar 22, 2006 11:27 AM
>To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>, capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
>Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
>
>Scott,
>
>I'm not sure I follow.
>
>Are you stating that the MUX is a replacement for the dual UDP port
>solution? The latter allows existing NATs to handle the packet, while
>the MUX is useful at the application layer. That said, I'm not sure that
>I understand why we cannot rely on the BSSID in the 802.11 frame to
>identify the WTP.
>
>Pat Calhoun
>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
>Cisco Systems
>
> 
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:53 AM
>> To: capwap
>> Subject: [Capwap] NAT-T
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> A group of us met yesterday to discuss dtls integration, and 
>> one related design point pertains to nat traversal. In 
>> particular, how we decide to handle directly impacts the 
>> design for dtls integration, so we want to get this resolved ASAP.
>> 
>> In the original lwapp-dtls draft, we discussed two options 
>> for differentiation: use a mux header, or use separate UDP 
>> ports, one for data and one for control. Initial agreement 
>> seems to be on the two-port approach, but this has nat-t implications.
>> 
>> Assume we're using two ports; in that case, the problem we 
>> have to solve is many ways similar to the one solved by the 
>> ipsec group (I'll use NAT rather than NAPT, as it's simpler 
>> to type :-)):
>> 
>> - the WTP sends a DISCOVER to the AC; note that if this is 
>> broadcast, no reply would be possible using a standard NAT 
>> implementation, as the NAT binding would be to the tuple 
>> (WTP-IP, BCAST-IP, UDP, WTP-PORT, AC-PORT). Since the 
>> response would not be from BCAST-IP, standard NAT 
>> implementations would drop it. This implies directed DISCOVER messages
>> 
>> - *if* the AC responds within the NAT binding timeout period 
>> (while the mapping record still exists on the middlebox), the 
>> WTP will receive the response; otherwise, it will be silently dropped
>> 
>> - assuming the WTP receives the response and wants to 
>> associate with the AC, it initiates the JOIN process (yes, 
>> the JOIN must be brought back, more on that later). One or 
>> both sides must also start a heartbeat over this channel in 
>> order to keep the NAPT binding(s) active.
>> 
>> - one point we skipped is that of NAT detection. You could 
>> always send heartbeats, regardless of the presence of NAT, 
>> but if you use the two-port method, you must detect NAT in 
>> any case (for reasons that will become obvious soon). The way 
>> IPsec handled this is to have the WTP include it's IP and 
>> port in one of the messages (in our case, during the JOIN), 
>> and having the AC compare this to the adress in the packet 
>> header; if they differ, the AC must inform the WTP of this in 
>> the response.
>> 
>> - NAT detection may be used as an indicator that heartbeat 
>> messages are needed. Note that the interval should probably 
>> be configurable (with sensible defaults),  as there is no 
>> standard NAT mapping lifetime.
>> 
>> Okay, so now we have the control channel. The first data 
>> channel message must be from a STA trying to associate. The 
>> WTP bundles this up and sends it to the AC - how does the AC 
>> associate this with a given WTP? Note that there is no 
>> guarantee the data channel will have the same source address 
>> as the control channel (L3 switching, load balancing), so we 
>> need a binding mechanism to associate the data and control 
>> channels, from the AC's perspective.
>> 
>> We could do this by placing the same session ID as used for 
>> the control channel into the data channel capwap header, but 
>> this header will be encrypted once dtls starts, adding some 
>> complexity to packet handling. Also, we need to manage 
>> heartbeats over this channel as well, and since we're doing 
>> dtls on this channel, we have to decide whether to encrypt 
>> these or not. If we don't, we've added new processing 
>> coplexity on both sides. If we do, we're chewing through our 
>> counter/iv space, meaning we have to take the heartbeat 
>> interval into rekey consideration for purposes of lifetime 
>> computations.
>> 
>> Okay, so clearly, using separate ports has some complexity 
>> associated with it. What about using a mux header instead? By 
>> this, I mean adding a field between the udp header and the 
>> 'data' (capwap header or dtls record layer header) to 
>> distinguish the two:
>> 
>> +----+-----+------+---------+
>> |  IP | UDP | mux | data    |
>> +----+-----+------+---------+
>> 
>> Let's say the mux header is 32 bits, and we use only one of 
>> these (for the time being) to indicate control/data (this is  
>> much like the lwapp 'c' bit). What are the differences in 
>> this approach? Two issues have been raised:
>> 
>> - it adds 4 bytes to the packet
>> 
>> - it is unprotected
>> 
>> To the first, I would reply that this is a trade-off, the 
>> price you pay for greatly reduced complexity. But yes, the 
>> cost is 4 bytes
>> 
>> To the second point, I would reply that Eric addressed this 
>> in the security considerations of the lwapp-dtls draft: there 
>> are two things an adversary might attempt here: converting 
>> protected data into unprotected data (data channel into 
>> control channel), and vice versa. 
>> 
>> Now, keep in mind that an attacker must be a MiM to do this, 
>> implying they can insert and delete packets at will anyway. 
>> If the adversary converts a data packet (unencrypted) to a 
>> control packet, decryption/authentication will fail, and this 
>> will be detected. If the adversary converts a control packet 
>> (encrypted, authenticated) to a data packet, it will be 
>> interpreted as garbage - again, it will be detected. 
>> 
>> The bottom line: there is no threat here that does not exist 
>> in the two-port case. They are equivalent in this respect. 
>> 
>> In the plus column, I think we can say that the mux header 
>> approach is simpler, in that the NAT-T concerns only apply to 
>> one channel, and the binding between control and data 
>> channels is unambiguous. Further, it gives the ability to 
>> provide a single de-muxing channel in the code for inbound 
>> packet handling, which may be advantageous, depending on 
>> implementation nuances.
>> 
>> We decided at our meeting yesterday that for these reasons, 
>> the mux header approach seems the most sensible. Does anyone object?
>> 
>> --Scott
>> 
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Wed Mar 22 15:08:16 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
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From: "Abhijit Choudhury" <Abhijit@sinett.com>
To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>,
	"capwap" <capwap@frascone.com>
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Scott,

I am not sure I understand the issue you are raising.
How much of this has to do with the "optional" DTLS
protection of the data channel ? I think we need to
decide as a group whether DTLS protection of the data
channel is even needed before we go ahead and complicate
the state machine further.

That said, a lot of applications use separate TCP or UDP ports
for control and data and they have no issue traversing
NAT. The control channel conveys the data port that
needs to be opened up, and this may require ALG intervention
to set up the data connection in the NAT box.

In CAPWAP, I'm not sure why the first
packet from the client has to initiate the data channel
setup. Clearly, a data channel will be needed, and the
UDP port can be identified during the control channel
setup process. So, when the first data packet shows up,
everything including the NAT session is already in place.
Applications like FTP do this on a command by command basis.
In the case of CAPWAP it's much much simpler; there is
one session that needs to be opened up in advance and
is long-lived.

Thanks,
   Abhijit




-----Original Message-----
From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:53 AM
To: capwap
Subject: [Capwap] NAT-T


Hi All,

A group of us met yesterday to discuss dtls integration, and one related
design point pertains to nat traversal. In particular, how we decide to
handle directly impacts the design for dtls integration, so we want to
get this resolved ASAP.

In the original lwapp-dtls draft, we discussed two options for
differentiation: use a mux header, or use separate UDP ports, one for
data and one for control. Initial agreement seems to be on the two-port
approach, but this has nat-t implications.

Assume we're using two ports; in that case, the problem we have to solve
is many ways similar to the one solved by the ipsec group (I'll use NAT
rather than NAPT, as it's simpler to type :-)):

- the WTP sends a DISCOVER to the AC; note that if this is broadcast, no
reply would be possible using a standard NAT implementation, as the NAT
binding would be to the tuple (WTP-IP, BCAST-IP, UDP, WTP-PORT,
AC-PORT). Since the response would not be from BCAST-IP, standard NAT
implementations would drop it. This implies directed DISCOVER messages

- *if* the AC responds within the NAT binding timeout period (while the
mapping record still exists on the middlebox), the WTP will receive the
response; otherwise, it will be silently dropped

- assuming the WTP receives the response and wants to associate with the
AC, it initiates the JOIN process (yes, the JOIN must be brought back,
more on that later). One or both sides must also start a heartbeat over
this channel in order to keep the NAPT binding(s) active.

- one point we skipped is that of NAT detection. You could always send
heartbeats, regardless of the presence of NAT, but if you use the
two-port method, you must detect NAT in any case (for reasons that will
become obvious soon). The way IPsec handled this is to have the WTP
include it's IP and port in one of the messages (in our case, during the
JOIN), and having the AC compare this to the adress in the packet
header; if they differ, the AC must inform the WTP of this in the
response.

- NAT detection may be used as an indicator that heartbeat messages are
needed. Note that the interval should probably be configurable (with
sensible defaults),  as there is no standard NAT mapping lifetime.

Okay, so now we have the control channel. The first data channel message
must be from a STA trying to associate. The WTP bundles this up and
sends it to the AC - how does the AC associate this with a given WTP?
Note that there is no guarantee the data channel will have the same
source address as the control channel (L3 switching, load balancing), so
we need a binding mechanism to associate the data and control channels,
from the AC's perspective.

We could do this by placing the same session ID as used for the control
channel into the data channel capwap header, but this header will be
encrypted once dtls starts, adding some complexity to packet handling.
Also, we need to manage heartbeats over this channel as well, and since
we're doing dtls on this channel, we have to decide whether to encrypt
these or not. If we don't, we've added new processing coplexity on both
sides. If we do, we're chewing through our counter/iv space, meaning we
have to take the heartbeat interval into rekey consideration for
purposes of lifetime computations.

Okay, so clearly, using separate ports has some complexity associated
with it. What about using a mux header instead? By this, I mean adding a
field between the udp header and the 'data' (capwap header or dtls
record layer header) to distinguish the two:

+----+-----+------+---------+
|  IP | UDP | mux | data    |
+----+-----+------+---------+

Let's say the mux header is 32 bits, and we use only one of these (for
the time being) to indicate control/data (this is  much like the lwapp
'c' bit). What are the differences in this approach? Two issues have
been raised:

- it adds 4 bytes to the packet

- it is unprotected

To the first, I would reply that this is a trade-off, the price you pay
for greatly reduced complexity. But yes, the cost is 4 bytes

To the second point, I would reply that Eric addressed this in the
security considerations of the lwapp-dtls draft: there are two things an
adversary might attempt here: converting protected data into unprotected
data (data channel into control channel), and vice versa.=20

Now, keep in mind that an attacker must be a MiM to do this, implying
they can insert and delete packets at will anyway. If the adversary
converts a data packet (unencrypted) to a control packet,
decryption/authentication will fail, and this will be detected. If the
adversary converts a control packet (encrypted, authenticated) to a data
packet, it will be interpreted as garbage - again, it will be detected.=20

The bottom line: there is no threat here that does not exist in the
two-port case. They are equivalent in this respect.=20

In the plus column, I think we can say that the mux header approach is
simpler, in that the NAT-T concerns only apply to one channel, and the
binding between control and data channels is unambiguous. Further, it
gives the ability to provide a single de-muxing channel in the code for
inbound packet handling, which may be advantageous, depending on
implementation nuances.

We decided at our meeting yesterday that for these reasons, the mux
header approach seems the most sensible. Does anyone object?

--Scott

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From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
To: Abhijit Choudhury <Abhijit@sinett.com>,
	capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
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Hi Abhijit,

Comments inline below...

-----Original Message-----
>From: Abhijit Choudhury <Abhijit@sinett.com>
>Sent: Mar 22, 2006 12:07 PM
>To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>, capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
>Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
>
>Scott,
>
>I am not sure I understand the issue you are raising.
>How much of this has to do with the "optional" DTLS
>protection of the data channel ? I think we need to
>decide as a group whether DTLS protection of the data
>channel is even needed before we go ahead and complicate
>the state machine further.

The issues exist no matter what. Data channel protection is not a factor in this discussion. And I think this will simplify, not complicate, the state machine implementation.

>That said, a lot of applications use separate TCP or UDP ports
>for control and data and they have no issue traversing
>NAT. The control channel conveys the data port that
>needs to be opened up, and this may require ALG intervention
>to set up the data connection in the NAT box.

I think this is a misconception. Sure, there are protocols with multiple channels that eventually gained middlebox support, but it was not simple, and it took a long time.  What you seem to be suggesting is that we rely on middlebox vendors to implement CAPWAP ALGs. I think this is a very risky strategy.

Take a look at what IPsec went through for NAT-T.  The IPsec group explored and rejected this approach. Let's not repeat their trials and tribulations. They solved this problem by pushing both datagram channels over one UDP session. It works, it's simpler than two ports, and we can do it today, without requiring lobbying and  cooperation from middlebox vendors.

>In CAPWAP, I'm not sure why the first
>packet from the client has to initiate the data channel
>setup. Clearly, a data channel will be needed, and the
>UDP port can be identified during the control channel
>setup process. So, when the first data packet shows up,
>everything including the NAT session is already in place.
>Applications like FTP do this on a command by command basis.
>In the case of CAPWAP it's much much simpler; there is
>one session that needs to be opened up in advance and
>is long-lived.

Applications like FTP run over TCP, and are so ubiquitous that firewall vendors eventually came around to supporting them as part of the cost of market admission. TCP sessions are stateful, and that makes deciding when to tear down bindings straightforward for the middlebox. Not so for CAPWAP, on either count - it's UDP, and while we might hope it will someday become ubiquitous, it's not today. If we want to finish the spec in this decade, I think we should focus on defining a solution that stands on its own, without dependencies on yet to be formed working groups and vendor alliances.

I don't understand the resistance. The mux header will make implementations much simpler.

Scott


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Thread-Topic: Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
Thread-Index: AcZOQCgaCsnrfjUjR3qI8toXSkqJjA==
From: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>
To: capwap@frascone.com
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Hi All,
=20
One of the recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to
tunnel 802.3 frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement
was interpreted as tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. However after
talking to various folks at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent was to
tunnel 802.3 frames in the split MAC (and not local MAC).
=20
Hence I would propose the following:
=20
(a) Delete the tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC<->WTP for Local MAC
and replace it with (b).
(b) Add tunneling 802.3 frames between AC <-> WTP for Split MAC.
Following the notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC
should be defined (based on recommendation of the eval team) as follows.
I have marked the changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1 with *
(note: section 11.1.1 remains unchanged - this proposal is an addition
to and not a replacement for section 11.1.1):
=20
        Function                               Location
        -------------                               -------------
            Distribution Service                       AC
            Integration Service                       *WTP*
            Beacon Generation                       WTP
            Probe Response                           WTP
            Power Mgmt/Packet Buffering        WTP
            Fragmentation/Defragmentation      WTP
            Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc              AC
=20
       802.11e
            Classifying                               AC
            Scheduling                               *WTP* (I don't
understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at AC)
            Queuing                                   WTP
=20
       802.11i
            802.1X/EAP                                AC
            Key Management                        AC
            802.11 Encryption/Decryption      *WTP*
=20
Thanks.
=20
-Puneet
=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C64E40.28A157C4
Content-Type: text/html;
 charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi=20
All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One of =
the=20
recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to tunnel =
802.3 frames=20
between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement was interpreted as =
tunneling=20
802.3 frames for local MAC. However after talking to various folks at =
IETF 65=20
(dallas), it seems the intent was to tunnel 802.3 frames in the split =
MAC (and=20
not local MAC).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hence =
I would=20
propose the following:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(a) =
Delete the=20
tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC&lt;-&gt;WTP for Local MAC and =
replace it=20
with (b).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(b) =
Add tunneling=20
802.3 frames between AC &lt;-&gt; WTP for Split MAC. Following the =
notation in=20
section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC should be defined (based on=20
recommendation of the eval team) as follows. I have marked the changes =
wrt the=20
draft-00's section 11.1.1 with * (note: section 11.1.1 remains unchanged =
- this=20
proposal is an addition to and not a replacement for section=20
11.1.1):</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Function&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Location</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-------------&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
-------------<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
Distribution=20
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

Integration=20
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*=
WTP*<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
Beacon=20
Generation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;=20
Probe=20
Response&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Power Mgmt/Packet=20
Buffering&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Fragmentation/Defragmentation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;AC</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
802.11e<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
Classifying&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

Scheduling&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*&nbsp;(I=20
don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at=20
AC)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
Queuing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
WTP</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
802.11i<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
802.1X/EAP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Key=20
Management&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
802.11=20
Encryption/Decryption&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*</FONT></SP=
AN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Thu Mar 23 02:09:59 2006
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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 01:09:09 -0600
From: Darren <dplore@gmail.com>
To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] NAT-T
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Another way to explain this NAT issue is an AC cannot not know what
source IP or source UDP port a WTP's data channel may show up on if
the data port is separate from the control channel port.  It doesn't
matter if the AC told the WTP which port to use or if the WTP used a
well known port.  A NAT between AC and WTP can and will change this.

It is an issue of using a separate port for the data channel.  The
data channel is not protected in any way by DTLS.  If one wants to
protect the data channel, that can be handled outside of capwap.

Two possible fixes both sound "okay" to me.  It would be good to hear
from implementors on what they would prefer:

1. Pat points out that we can identify which WTP is sending traffic to
the AC by the BSSID carried in the (unprotected, unencrypted) data
packet.   The AC could also verify the STA MAC address is on the
authorized list as well.

2. A mux field could be added as Scott specifies.  This would be
similar to the layer 2 mux header from lwapp.


This did make me think of a different question though....  Can a
spoofed BSSID/STA data packets can make it through the AC?  Is this
something to be worried about?  Conceivably such packets would not
traverse a properly functioning WTP, but could be sent from other
hosts who would have to guess WTP BSSID's and possibly STA MAC if the
AC checked both.


-Darren


On 3/22/06, Scott G. Kelly <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Hi Abhijit,
>
> Comments inline below...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Abhijit Choudhury <Abhijit@sinett.com>
> >Sent: Mar 22, 2006 12:07 PM
> >To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>, capwap <capwap@frascone.c=
om>
> >Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
> >
> >Scott,
> >
> >I am not sure I understand the issue you are raising.
> >How much of this has to do with the "optional" DTLS
> >protection of the data channel ? I think we need to
> >decide as a group whether DTLS protection of the data
> >channel is even needed before we go ahead and complicate
> >the state machine further.
>
> The issues exist no matter what. Data channel protection is not a factor =
in this discussion. And I think this will simplify, not complicate, the sta=
te machine implementation.
>
> >That said, a lot of applications use separate TCP or UDP ports
> >for control and data and they have no issue traversing
> >NAT. The control channel conveys the data port that
> >needs to be opened up, and this may require ALG intervention
> >to set up the data connection in the NAT box.
>
> I think this is a misconception. Sure, there are protocols with multiple =
channels that eventually gained middlebox support, but it was not simple, a=
nd it took a long time.  What you seem to be suggesting is that we rely on =
middlebox vendors to implement CAPWAP ALGs. I think this is a very risky st=
rategy.
>
> Take a look at what IPsec went through for NAT-T.  The IPsec group explor=
ed and rejected this approach. Let's not repeat their trials and tribulatio=
ns. They solved this problem by pushing both datagram channels over one UDP=
 session. It works, it's simpler than two ports, and we can do it today, wi=
thout requiring lobbying and  cooperation from middlebox vendors.
>
> >In CAPWAP, I'm not sure why the first
> >packet from the client has to initiate the data channel
> >setup. Clearly, a data channel will be needed, and the
> >UDP port can be identified during the control channel
> >setup process. So, when the first data packet shows up,
> >everything including the NAT session is already in place.
> >Applications like FTP do this on a command by command basis.
> >In the case of CAPWAP it's much much simpler; there is
> >one session that needs to be opened up in advance and
> >is long-lived.
>
> Applications like FTP run over TCP, and are so ubiquitous that firewall v=
endors eventually came around to supporting them as part of the cost of mar=
ket admission. TCP sessions are stateful, and that makes deciding when to t=
ear down bindings straightforward for the middlebox. Not so for CAPWAP, on =
either count - it's UDP, and while we might hope it will someday become ubi=
quitous, it's not today. If we want to finish the spec in this decade, I th=
ink we should focus on defining a solution that stands on its own, without =
dependencies on yet to be formed working groups and vendor alliances.
>
> I don't understand the resistance. The mux header will make implementatio=
ns much simpler.
>
> Scott
>
>
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
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To: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Puneet,
=20
Could you once more remind me why two different tunneling formats is
required in split-MAC mode?
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:08 PM
	To: capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
=09
=09
	Hi All,
	=20
	One of the recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a
mode to tunnel 802.3 frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that
requirement was interpreted as tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC.
However after talking to various folks at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the
intent was to tunnel 802.3 frames in the split MAC (and not local MAC).
	=20
	Hence I would propose the following:
	=20
	(a) Delete the tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC<->WTP for
Local MAC and replace it with (b).
	(b) Add tunneling 802.3 frames between AC <-> WTP for Split MAC.
Following the notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC
should be defined (based on recommendation of the eval team) as follows.
I have marked the changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1 with *
(note: section 11.1.1 remains unchanged - this proposal is an addition
to and not a replacement for section 11.1.1):
	=20
	        Function                               Location
	        -------------
-------------
	            Distribution Service                       AC
	            Integration Service                       *WTP*
	            Beacon Generation                       WTP
	            Probe Response                           WTP
	            Power Mgmt/Packet Buffering        WTP
	            Fragmentation/Defragmentation      WTP
	            Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc              AC
	=20
	       802.11e
	            Classifying                               AC
	            Scheduling                               *WTP* (I
don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at AC)
	            Queuing                                   WTP
	=20
	       802.11i
	            802.1X/EAP                                AC
	            Key Management                        AC
	            802.11 Encryption/Decryption      *WTP*
	=20
	Thanks.
	=20
	-Puneet
	=20


------_=_NextPart_001_01C64EA6.847E3BB7
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D693272018-23032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Puneet,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D693272018-23032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D693272018-23032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Could=20
you once more remind me why two different tunneling formats is required =
in=20
split-MAC mode?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Puneet Agarwal=20
  [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 22, =
2006=20
  10:08 PM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Capwap] =
Data=20
  tunneling between WTP &lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi=20
  All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One =
of the=20
  recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to tunnel =
802.3=20
  frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement was =
interpreted as=20
  tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. However after talking to various =
folks=20
  at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent was to tunnel 802.3 frames in =
the=20
  split MAC (and not local MAC).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Hence I would=20
  propose the following:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(a) =
Delete the=20
  tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC&lt;-&gt;WTP for Local MAC and =
replace it=20
  with (b).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(b) =
Add tunneling=20
  802.3 frames between AC &lt;-&gt; WTP for Split MAC. Following the =
notation in=20
  section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC should be defined (based on =

  recommendation of the eval team) as follows. I have marked the changes =
wrt the=20
  draft-00's section 11.1.1 with * (note: section 11.1.1 remains =
unchanged -=20
  this proposal is an addition to and not a replacement for section=20
  11.1.1):</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
Function&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Location</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-------------&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
-------------<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
  Distribution=20
  =
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

  Integration=20
  =
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*=
WTP*<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
  Beacon=20
  =
Generation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;=20
  Probe=20
  =
Response&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Power Mgmt/Packet=20
  =
Buffering&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
Fragmentation/Defragmentation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;AC</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
802.11e<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
  =
Classifying&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

  =
Scheduling&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*&nbsp;(I=20
  don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at=20
  =
AC)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
  =
Queuing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  WTP</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
802.11i<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
  =
802.1X/EAP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Key=20
  =
Management&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
  802.11=20
  =
Encryption/Decryption&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*</FONT></SP=
AN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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I'm not a big fan of approach #1, where we look at the 802.11 header. 
The definition and operation of the data channel and DTLS control 
channel are core parts of CAPWAP, and IMHO should be L2-agnostic. 
Defining a link-layer binding for something so fundamental seems 
inappropriate.

[ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ]
[ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ]

Darren wrote:
> Another way to explain this NAT issue is an AC cannot not know what
> source IP or source UDP port a WTP's data channel may show up on if
> the data port is separate from the control channel port.  It doesn't
> matter if the AC told the WTP which port to use or if the WTP used a
> well known port.  A NAT between AC and WTP can and will change this.
> 
> It is an issue of using a separate port for the data channel.  The
> data channel is not protected in any way by DTLS.  If one wants to
> protect the data channel, that can be handled outside of capwap.
> 
> Two possible fixes both sound "okay" to me.  It would be good to hear
> from implementors on what they would prefer:
> 
> 1. Pat points out that we can identify which WTP is sending traffic to
> the AC by the BSSID carried in the (unprotected, unencrypted) data
> packet.   The AC could also verify the STA MAC address is on the
> authorized list as well.
> 
> 2. A mux field could be added as Scott specifies.  This would be
> similar to the layer 2 mux header from lwapp.
> 
> 
> This did make me think of a different question though....  Can a
> spoofed BSSID/STA data packets can make it through the AC?  Is this
> something to be worried about?  Conceivably such packets would not
> traverse a properly functioning WTP, but could be sent from other
> hosts who would have to guess WTP BSSID's and possibly STA MAC if the
> AC checked both.
> 
> 
> -Darren
> 
> 
> On 3/22/06, Scott G. Kelly <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> 
>>Hi Abhijit,
>>
>>Comments inline below...
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>
>>>From: Abhijit Choudhury <Abhijit@sinett.com>
>>>Sent: Mar 22, 2006 12:07 PM
>>>To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>, capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
>>>Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
>>>
>>>Scott,
>>>
>>>I am not sure I understand the issue you are raising.
>>>How much of this has to do with the "optional" DTLS
>>>protection of the data channel ? I think we need to
>>>decide as a group whether DTLS protection of the data
>>>channel is even needed before we go ahead and complicate
>>>the state machine further.
>>
>>The issues exist no matter what. Data channel protection is not a factor in this discussion. And I think this will simplify, not complicate, the state machine implementation.
>>
>>
>>>That said, a lot of applications use separate TCP or UDP ports
>>>for control and data and they have no issue traversing
>>>NAT. The control channel conveys the data port that
>>>needs to be opened up, and this may require ALG intervention
>>>to set up the data connection in the NAT box.
>>
>>I think this is a misconception. Sure, there are protocols with multiple channels that eventually gained middlebox support, but it was not simple, and it took a long time.  What you seem to be suggesting is that we rely on middlebox vendors to implement CAPWAP ALGs. I think this is a very risky strategy.
>>
>>Take a look at what IPsec went through for NAT-T.  The IPsec group explored and rejected this approach. Let's not repeat their trials and tribulations. They solved this problem by pushing both datagram channels over one UDP session. It works, it's simpler than two ports, and we can do it today, without requiring lobbying and  cooperation from middlebox vendors.
>>
>>
>>>In CAPWAP, I'm not sure why the first
>>>packet from the client has to initiate the data channel
>>>setup. Clearly, a data channel will be needed, and the
>>>UDP port can be identified during the control channel
>>>setup process. So, when the first data packet shows up,
>>>everything including the NAT session is already in place.
>>>Applications like FTP do this on a command by command basis.
>>>In the case of CAPWAP it's much much simpler; there is
>>>one session that needs to be opened up in advance and
>>>is long-lived.
>>
>>Applications like FTP run over TCP, and are so ubiquitous that firewall vendors eventually came around to supporting them as part of the cost of market admission. TCP sessions are stateful, and that makes deciding when to tear down bindings straightforward for the middlebox. Not so for CAPWAP, on either count - it's UDP, and while we might hope it will someday become ubiquitous, it's not today. If we want to finish the spec in this decade, I think we should focus on defining a solution that stands on its own, without dependencies on yet to be formed working groups and vendor alliances.
>>
>>I don't understand the resistance. The mux header will make implementations much simpler.
>>
>>Scott
>>
>>
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:37:58 -0800
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>,
	"capwap" <capwap@frascone.com>
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I don't agree with the use of a single UDP port, as it would require the
state of DTLS to be the same for both data and control - certainly not
something that we've *ever* agreed to. In fact, the concept of DTLS for
data showed up in the latest document without discussion among the
editors and the WG. Must discussion needs to occur on this topic before
we can even assume it is a given.

My understanding is that the MUX is used to bind the control and data
plane, which could be useful if we have two UDP ports. However, you've
completely lost me as to why it would ever be required if we were to
make use of a single UDP port. Looking at HTTP, it certainly is
NAT'able, and there is nothing specific in that protocol that needs to
be done in order to support NAT.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:03 PM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
>=20
> Yes, I'm suggesting use of one port with a mux header rather=20
> than 2 ports: it's much simpler operationally.
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
> >Sent: Mar 22, 2006 11:27 AM
> >To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>, capwap=20
> ><capwap@frascone.com>
> >Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
> >
> >Scott,
> >
> >I'm not sure I follow.
> >
> >Are you stating that the MUX is a replacement for the dual UDP port=20
> >solution? The latter allows existing NATs to handle the=20
> packet, while=20
> >the MUX is useful at the application layer. That said, I'm not sure=20
> >that I understand why we cannot rely on the BSSID in the=20
> 802.11 frame=20
> >to identify the WTP.
> >
> >Pat Calhoun
> >CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> >Cisco Systems
> >
> >=20
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:53 AM
> >> To: capwap
> >> Subject: [Capwap] NAT-T
> >>=20
> >> Hi All,
> >>=20
> >> A group of us met yesterday to discuss dtls integration, and one=20
> >> related design point pertains to nat traversal. In=20
> particular, how we=20
> >> decide to handle directly impacts the design for dtls=20
> integration, so=20
> >> we want to get this resolved ASAP.
> >>=20
> >> In the original lwapp-dtls draft, we discussed two options for=20
> >> differentiation: use a mux header, or use separate UDP=20
> ports, one for=20
> >> data and one for control. Initial agreement seems to be on the=20
> >> two-port approach, but this has nat-t implications.
> >>=20
> >> Assume we're using two ports; in that case, the problem we have to=20
> >> solve is many ways similar to the one solved by the ipsec=20
> group (I'll=20
> >> use NAT rather than NAPT, as it's simpler to type :-)):
> >>=20
> >> - the WTP sends a DISCOVER to the AC; note that if this is=20
> broadcast,=20
> >> no reply would be possible using a standard NAT implementation, as=20
> >> the NAT binding would be to the tuple (WTP-IP, BCAST-IP, UDP,=20
> >> WTP-PORT, AC-PORT). Since the response would not be from BCAST-IP,=20
> >> standard NAT implementations would drop it. This implies directed=20
> >> DISCOVER messages
> >>=20
> >> - *if* the AC responds within the NAT binding timeout=20
> period (while=20
> >> the mapping record still exists on the middlebox), the WTP will=20
> >> receive the response; otherwise, it will be silently dropped
> >>=20
> >> - assuming the WTP receives the response and wants to=20
> associate with=20
> >> the AC, it initiates the JOIN process (yes, the JOIN must=20
> be brought=20
> >> back, more on that later). One or both sides must also start a=20
> >> heartbeat over this channel in order to keep the NAPT binding(s)=20
> >> active.
> >>=20
> >> - one point we skipped is that of NAT detection. You could always=20
> >> send heartbeats, regardless of the presence of NAT, but if you use=20
> >> the two-port method, you must detect NAT in any case (for reasons=20
> >> that will become obvious soon). The way IPsec handled this=20
> is to have=20
> >> the WTP include it's IP and port in one of the messages=20
> (in our case,=20
> >> during the JOIN), and having the AC compare this to the=20
> adress in the=20
> >> packet header; if they differ, the AC must inform the WTP=20
> of this in=20
> >> the response.
> >>=20
> >> - NAT detection may be used as an indicator that heartbeat=20
> messages=20
> >> are needed. Note that the interval should probably be configurable=20
> >> (with sensible defaults),  as there is no standard NAT mapping=20
> >> lifetime.
> >>=20
> >> Okay, so now we have the control channel. The first data channel=20
> >> message must be from a STA trying to associate. The WTP=20
> bundles this=20
> >> up and sends it to the AC - how does the AC associate this with a=20
> >> given WTP? Note that there is no guarantee the data=20
> channel will have=20
> >> the same source address as the control channel (L3 switching, load=20
> >> balancing), so we need a binding mechanism to associate=20
> the data and=20
> >> control channels, from the AC's perspective.
> >>=20
> >> We could do this by placing the same session ID as used for the=20
> >> control channel into the data channel capwap header, but=20
> this header=20
> >> will be encrypted once dtls starts, adding some complexity=20
> to packet=20
> >> handling. Also, we need to manage heartbeats over this channel as=20
> >> well, and since we're doing dtls on this channel, we have=20
> to decide=20
> >> whether to encrypt these or not. If we don't, we've added new=20
> >> processing coplexity on both sides. If we do, we're=20
> chewing through=20
> >> our counter/iv space, meaning we have to take the=20
> heartbeat interval=20
> >> into rekey consideration for purposes of lifetime computations.
> >>=20
> >> Okay, so clearly, using separate ports has some complexity=20
> associated=20
> >> with it. What about using a mux header instead? By this, I mean=20
> >> adding a field between the udp header and the 'data'=20
> (capwap header=20
> >> or dtls record layer header) to distinguish the two:
> >>=20
> >> +----+-----+------+---------+
> >> |  IP | UDP | mux | data    |
> >> +----+-----+------+---------+
> >>=20
> >> Let's say the mux header is 32 bits, and we use only one of these=20
> >> (for the time being) to indicate control/data (this is=20
> much like the=20
> >> lwapp 'c' bit). What are the differences in this approach?=20
> Two issues=20
> >> have been raised:
> >>=20
> >> - it adds 4 bytes to the packet
> >>=20
> >> - it is unprotected
> >>=20
> >> To the first, I would reply that this is a trade-off, the=20
> price you=20
> >> pay for greatly reduced complexity. But yes, the cost is 4 bytes
> >>=20
> >> To the second point, I would reply that Eric addressed this in the=20
> >> security considerations of the lwapp-dtls draft: there are=20
> two things=20
> >> an adversary might attempt here: converting protected data into=20
> >> unprotected data (data channel into control channel), and=20
> vice versa.
> >>=20
> >> Now, keep in mind that an attacker must be a MiM to do=20
> this, implying=20
> >> they can insert and delete packets at will anyway.
> >> If the adversary converts a data packet (unencrypted) to a control=20
> >> packet, decryption/authentication will fail, and this will be=20
> >> detected. If the adversary converts a control packet (encrypted,=20
> >> authenticated) to a data packet, it will be interpreted as=20
> garbage -=20
> >> again, it will be detected.
> >>=20
> >> The bottom line: there is no threat here that does not=20
> exist in the=20
> >> two-port case. They are equivalent in this respect.
> >>=20
> >> In the plus column, I think we can say that the mux header=20
> approach=20
> >> is simpler, in that the NAT-T concerns only apply to one=20
> channel, and=20
> >> the binding between control and data channels is unambiguous.=20
> >> Further, it gives the ability to provide a single=20
> de-muxing channel=20
> >> in the code for inbound packet handling, which may be=20
> advantageous,=20
> >> depending on implementation nuances.
> >>=20
> >> We decided at our meeting yesterday that for these=20
> reasons, the mux=20
> >> header approach seems the most sensible. Does anyone object?
> >>=20
> >> --Scott
> >>=20
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> >> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >>=20
> >> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >>=20
>=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Handover issue
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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Behcet, I believe that I claimed that 802.1X authentication works for
both local and split MAC. In both cases, the 802.11 MAC management
packets, and 802.1X, need to be forwarded to the AC for centralized
authentication.

Moving across ACs is out of scope for CAPWAP.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 4:37 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] Handover issue
>=20
> Dear all,
>   Before we forget, I wanted to wrap up the issues arising=20
> from today's
> presentation:
> - Puneet's question on roaming, STA roaming not WTP roaming=20
> is what we are trying to do
> - France Telecom colleague's question on the relationship=20
> with NEMO, NEMO and MIP try to provide the session=20
> continuity, i.e. try to keep the same IP address so that the=20
> sessions do not break after handover. This is not what=20
> CAPWAPHP is after. We are interested in roaming support that=20
> is needed to be included in the CAPWAP protocol.
> - Pat mentioned that he was concerned on our model for Local=20
> MAC roaming handling in CAPWAPHP.
> - Pat claimed that the Split MAC solution is already in=20
> CAPWAP protocol, however, of the two scenarios we have in=20
> CAPWAPHP only one of them is partially covered in CAPWAP.
>  - Pat asked on inter-AC roaming, here the roaming scenario=20
> is where STA moves from a WTP in one domain, e.g. Verizon to=20
> a WTP in another domain, e.g. T-Mobile.
>   Have I missed anything?
> =20
> Regards,
>=20
> --behcet
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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The MUX header would be necessary if you had a DTLS control channel and 
an unprotected data channel using the *same* UDP port.  It would look 
something like:

+---------+-------------+-------------------------------
| UDP Hdr | MUX Hdr = 1 | DTLS Enc Control Packet ....
+---------+-------------+----------------------

+---------+-------------+---------------------------
| UDP Hdr | MUX Hdr = 2 | Encapsulated Data Packet
+---------+-------------+----------------------

It's basically 1 bit (though 32 bits may be necessary for alignment) 
that says whether the rest of the packet is encrypted or not.

If you DTLS-encrypt both channels, then the MUX header would not be 
necessary.  If you use two UDP channels and have some way to correlate 
data and control channels, then the MUX header is not necessary.  Such 
correlation could be done perhaps with a session ID in the CAPWAP header.

[ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ]
[ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ]

Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> I don't agree with the use of a single UDP port, as it would require the
> state of DTLS to be the same for both data and control - certainly not
> something that we've *ever* agreed to. In fact, the concept of DTLS for
> data showed up in the latest document without discussion among the
> editors and the WG. Must discussion needs to occur on this topic before
> we can even assume it is a given.
> 
> My understanding is that the MUX is used to bind the control and data
> plane, which could be useful if we have two UDP ports. However, you've
> completely lost me as to why it would ever be required if we were to
> make use of a single UDP port. Looking at HTTP, it certainly is
> NAT'able, and there is nothing specific in that protocol that needs to
> be done in order to support NAT.
> 
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> 
>  
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com] 
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:03 PM
>>To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
>>Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
>>
>>Yes, I'm suggesting use of one port with a mux header rather 
>>than 2 ports: it's much simpler operationally.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>
>>>From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
>>>Sent: Mar 22, 2006 11:27 AM
>>>To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>, capwap 
>>><capwap@frascone.com>
>>>Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
>>>
>>>Scott,
>>>
>>>I'm not sure I follow.
>>>
>>>Are you stating that the MUX is a replacement for the dual UDP port 
>>>solution? The latter allows existing NATs to handle the 
>>
>>packet, while 
>>
>>>the MUX is useful at the application layer. That said, I'm not sure 
>>>that I understand why we cannot rely on the BSSID in the 
>>
>>802.11 frame 
>>
>>>to identify the WTP.
>>>
>>>Pat Calhoun
>>>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
>>>Cisco Systems
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:53 AM
>>>>To: capwap
>>>>Subject: [Capwap] NAT-T
>>>>
>>>>Hi All,
>>>>
>>>>A group of us met yesterday to discuss dtls integration, and one 
>>>>related design point pertains to nat traversal. In 
>>
>>particular, how we 
>>
>>>>decide to handle directly impacts the design for dtls 
>>
>>integration, so 
>>
>>>>we want to get this resolved ASAP.
>>>>
>>>>In the original lwapp-dtls draft, we discussed two options for 
>>>>differentiation: use a mux header, or use separate UDP 
>>
>>ports, one for 
>>
>>>>data and one for control. Initial agreement seems to be on the 
>>>>two-port approach, but this has nat-t implications.
>>>>
>>>>Assume we're using two ports; in that case, the problem we have to 
>>>>solve is many ways similar to the one solved by the ipsec 
>>
>>group (I'll 
>>
>>>>use NAT rather than NAPT, as it's simpler to type :-)):
>>>>
>>>>- the WTP sends a DISCOVER to the AC; note that if this is 
>>
>>broadcast, 
>>
>>>>no reply would be possible using a standard NAT implementation, as 
>>>>the NAT binding would be to the tuple (WTP-IP, BCAST-IP, UDP, 
>>>>WTP-PORT, AC-PORT). Since the response would not be from BCAST-IP, 
>>>>standard NAT implementations would drop it. This implies directed 
>>>>DISCOVER messages
>>>>
>>>>- *if* the AC responds within the NAT binding timeout 
>>
>>period (while 
>>
>>>>the mapping record still exists on the middlebox), the WTP will 
>>>>receive the response; otherwise, it will be silently dropped
>>>>
>>>>- assuming the WTP receives the response and wants to 
>>
>>associate with 
>>
>>>>the AC, it initiates the JOIN process (yes, the JOIN must 
>>
>>be brought 
>>
>>>>back, more on that later). One or both sides must also start a 
>>>>heartbeat over this channel in order to keep the NAPT binding(s) 
>>>>active.
>>>>
>>>>- one point we skipped is that of NAT detection. You could always 
>>>>send heartbeats, regardless of the presence of NAT, but if you use 
>>>>the two-port method, you must detect NAT in any case (for reasons 
>>>>that will become obvious soon). The way IPsec handled this 
>>
>>is to have 
>>
>>>>the WTP include it's IP and port in one of the messages 
>>
>>(in our case, 
>>
>>>>during the JOIN), and having the AC compare this to the 
>>
>>adress in the 
>>
>>>>packet header; if they differ, the AC must inform the WTP 
>>
>>of this in 
>>
>>>>the response.
>>>>
>>>>- NAT detection may be used as an indicator that heartbeat 
>>
>>messages 
>>
>>>>are needed. Note that the interval should probably be configurable 
>>>>(with sensible defaults),  as there is no standard NAT mapping 
>>>>lifetime.
>>>>
>>>>Okay, so now we have the control channel. The first data channel 
>>>>message must be from a STA trying to associate. The WTP 
>>
>>bundles this 
>>
>>>>up and sends it to the AC - how does the AC associate this with a 
>>>>given WTP? Note that there is no guarantee the data 
>>
>>channel will have 
>>
>>>>the same source address as the control channel (L3 switching, load 
>>>>balancing), so we need a binding mechanism to associate 
>>
>>the data and 
>>
>>>>control channels, from the AC's perspective.
>>>>
>>>>We could do this by placing the same session ID as used for the 
>>>>control channel into the data channel capwap header, but 
>>
>>this header 
>>
>>>>will be encrypted once dtls starts, adding some complexity 
>>
>>to packet 
>>
>>>>handling. Also, we need to manage heartbeats over this channel as 
>>>>well, and since we're doing dtls on this channel, we have 
>>
>>to decide 
>>
>>>>whether to encrypt these or not. If we don't, we've added new 
>>>>processing coplexity on both sides. If we do, we're 
>>
>>chewing through 
>>
>>>>our counter/iv space, meaning we have to take the 
>>
>>heartbeat interval 
>>
>>>>into rekey consideration for purposes of lifetime computations.
>>>>
>>>>Okay, so clearly, using separate ports has some complexity 
>>
>>associated 
>>
>>>>with it. What about using a mux header instead? By this, I mean 
>>>>adding a field between the udp header and the 'data' 
>>
>>(capwap header 
>>
>>>>or dtls record layer header) to distinguish the two:
>>>>
>>>>+----+-----+------+---------+
>>>>|  IP | UDP | mux | data    |
>>>>+----+-----+------+---------+
>>>>
>>>>Let's say the mux header is 32 bits, and we use only one of these 
>>>>(for the time being) to indicate control/data (this is 
>>
>>much like the 
>>
>>>>lwapp 'c' bit). What are the differences in this approach? 
>>
>>Two issues 
>>
>>>>have been raised:
>>>>
>>>>- it adds 4 bytes to the packet
>>>>
>>>>- it is unprotected
>>>>
>>>>To the first, I would reply that this is a trade-off, the 
>>
>>price you 
>>
>>>>pay for greatly reduced complexity. But yes, the cost is 4 bytes
>>>>
>>>>To the second point, I would reply that Eric addressed this in the 
>>>>security considerations of the lwapp-dtls draft: there are 
>>
>>two things 
>>
>>>>an adversary might attempt here: converting protected data into 
>>>>unprotected data (data channel into control channel), and 
>>
>>vice versa.
>>
>>>>Now, keep in mind that an attacker must be a MiM to do 
>>
>>this, implying 
>>
>>>>they can insert and delete packets at will anyway.
>>>>If the adversary converts a data packet (unencrypted) to a control 
>>>>packet, decryption/authentication will fail, and this will be 
>>>>detected. If the adversary converts a control packet (encrypted, 
>>>>authenticated) to a data packet, it will be interpreted as 
>>
>>garbage - 
>>
>>>>again, it will be detected.
>>>>
>>>>The bottom line: there is no threat here that does not 
>>
>>exist in the 
>>
>>>>two-port case. They are equivalent in this respect.
>>>>
>>>>In the plus column, I think we can say that the mux header 
>>
>>approach 
>>
>>>>is simpler, in that the NAT-T concerns only apply to one 
>>
>>channel, and 
>>
>>>>the binding between control and data channels is unambiguous. 
>>>>Further, it gives the ability to provide a single 
>>
>>de-muxing channel 
>>
>>>>in the code for inbound packet handling, which may be 
>>
>>advantageous, 
>>
>>>>depending on implementation nuances.
>>>>
>>>>We decided at our meeting yesterday that for these 
>>
>>reasons, the mux 
>>
>>>>header approach seems the most sensible. Does anyone object?
>>>>
>>>>--Scott
>>>>
>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>>>>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>>>>
>>>>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>>>>
>>
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From: zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
Subject: Re:Re: [Capwap] NAT-T
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Hi all:

  For Nat passthrogh, I recommend the first step is including AP ip address in "join request".

Best regards
Michael 


> The MUX header would be necessary if you had a DTLS control 
> channel and 
> an unprotected data channel using the *same* UDP port.  It would 
> look 
> something like:
> 
> +---------+-------------+-------------------------------
> | UDP Hdr | MUX Hdr = 1 | DTLS Enc Control Packet ....
> +---------+-------------+----------------------
> 
> +---------+-------------+---------------------------
> | UDP Hdr | MUX Hdr = 2 | Encapsulated Data Packet
> +---------+-------------+----------------------
> 
> It's basically 1 bit (though 32 bits may be necessary for 
> alignment) 
> that says whether the rest of the packet is encrypted or not.
> 
> If you DTLS-encrypt both channels, then the MUX header would not 
> be 
> necessary.  If you use two UDP channels and have some way to 
> correlate 
> data and control channels, then the MUX header is not necessary.  
> Such 
> correlation could be done perhaps with a session ID in the CAPWAP 
> header.
> [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ]
> [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ]
> 
> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> > I don't agree with the use of a single UDP port, as it would 
> require the
> > state of DTLS to be the same for both data and control - 
> certainly not
> > something that we've *ever* agreed to. In fact, the concept of 
> DTLS for
> > data showed up in the latest document without discussion among the
> > editors and the WG. Must discussion needs to occur on this topic 
> before> we can even assume it is a given.
> > 
> > My understanding is that the MUX is used to bind the control and 
> data> plane, which could be useful if we have two UDP ports. 
> However, you've
> > completely lost me as to why it would ever be required if we 
> were to
> > make use of a single UDP port. Looking at HTTP, it certainly is
> > NAT'able, and there is nothing specific in that protocol that 
> needs to
> > be done in order to support NAT.
> > 
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> > Cisco Systems
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Scott G. Kelly [s.kelly@ix.netcom.com] 
> >>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:03 PM
> >>To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
> >>Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
> >>
> >>Yes, I'm suggesting use of one port with a mux header rather 
> >>than 2 ports: it's much simpler operationally.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>
> >>>From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
> >>>Sent: Mar 22, 2006 11:27 AM
> >>>To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>, capwap 
> >>><capwap@frascone.com>
> >>>Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
> >>>
> >>>Scott,
> >>>
> >>>I'm not sure I follow.
> >>>
> >>>Are you stating that the MUX is a replacement for the dual UDP 
> port 
> >>>solution? The latter allows existing NATs to handle the 
> >>
> >>packet, while 
> >>
> >>>the MUX is useful at the application layer. That said, I'm not 
> sure 
> >>>that I understand why we cannot rely on the BSSID in the 
> >>
> >>802.11 frame 
> >>
> >>>to identify the WTP.
> >>>
> >>>Pat Calhoun
> >>>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> >>>Cisco Systems
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: Scott G. Kelly [s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]
> >>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:53 AM
> >>>>To: capwap
> >>>>Subject: [Capwap] NAT-T
> >>>>
> >>>>Hi All,
> >>>>
> >>>>A group of us met yesterday to discuss dtls integration, and 
> one 
> >>>>related design point pertains to nat traversal. In 
> >>
> >>particular, how we 
> >>
> >>>>decide to handle directly impacts the design for dtls 
> >>
> >>integration, so 
> >>
> >>>>we want to get this resolved ASAP.
> >>>>
> >>>>In the original lwapp-dtls draft, we discussed two options for 
> >>>>differentiation: use a mux header, or use separate UDP 
> >>
> >>ports, one for 
> >>
> >>>>data and one for control. Initial agreement seems to be on the 
> >>>>two-port approach, but this has nat-t implications.
> >>>>
> >>>>Assume we're using two ports; in that case, the problem we 
> have to 
> >>>>solve is many ways similar to the one solved by the ipsec 
> >>
> >>group (I'll 
> >>
> >>>>use NAT rather than NAPT, as it's simpler to type :-)):
> >>>>
> >>>>- the WTP sends a DISCOVER to the AC; note that if this is 
> >>
> >>broadcast, 
> >>
> >>>>no reply would be possible using a standard NAT 
> implementation, as 
> >>>>the NAT binding would be to the tuple (WTP-IP, BCAST-IP, UDP, 
> >>>>WTP-PORT, AC-PORT). Since the response would not be from BCAST-
> IP, 
> >>>>standard NAT implementations would drop it. This implies 
> directed 
> >>>>DISCOVER messages
> >>>>
> >>>>- *if* the AC responds within the NAT binding timeout 
> >>
> >>period (while 
> >>
> >>>>the mapping record still exists on the middlebox), the WTP 
> will 
> >>>>receive the response; otherwise, it will be silently dropped
> >>>>
> >>>>- assuming the WTP receives the response and wants to 
> >>
> >>associate with 
> >>
> >>>>the AC, it initiates the JOIN process (yes, the JOIN must 
> >>
> >>be brought 
> >>
> >>>>back, more on that later). One or both sides must also start a 
> >>>>heartbeat over this channel in order to keep the NAPT 
> binding(s) 
> >>>>active.
> >>>>
> >>>>- one point we skipped is that of NAT detection. You could 
> always 
> >>>>send heartbeats, regardless of the presence of NAT, but if you 
> use 
> >>>>the two-port method, you must detect NAT in any case (for 
> reasons 
> >>>>that will become obvious soon). The way IPsec handled this 
> >>
> >>is to have 
> >>
> >>>>the WTP include it's IP and port in one of the messages 
> >>
> >>(in our case, 
> >>
> >>>>during the JOIN), and having the AC compare this to the 
> >>
> >>adress in the 
> >>
> >>>>packet header; if they differ, the AC must inform the WTP 
> >>
> >>of this in 
> >>
> >>>>the response.
> >>>>
> >>>>- NAT detection may be used as an indicator that heartbeat 
> >>
> >>messages 
> >>
> >>>>are needed. Note that the interval should probably be 
> configurable 
> >>>>(with sensible defaults),  as there is no standard NAT mapping 
> >>>>lifetime.
> >>>>
> >>>>Okay, so now we have the control channel. The first data 
> channel 
> >>>>message must be from a STA trying to associate. The WTP 
> >>
> >>bundles this 
> >>
> >>>>up and sends it to the AC - how does the AC associate this 
> with a 
> >>>>given WTP? Note that there is no guarantee the data 
> >>
> >>channel will have 
> >>
> >>>>the same source address as the control channel (L3 switching, 
> load 
> >>>>balancing), so we need a binding mechanism to associate 
> >>
> >>the data and 
> >>
> >>>>control channels, from the AC's perspective.
> >>>>
> >>>>We could do this by placing the same session ID as used for 
> the 
> >>>>control channel into the data channel capwap header, but 
> >>
> >>this header 
> >>
> >>>>will be encrypted once dtls starts, adding some complexity 
> >>
> >>to packet 
> >>
> >>>>handling. Also, we need to manage heartbeats over this channel 
> as 
> >>>>well, and since we're doing dtls on this channel, we have 
> >>
> >>to decide 
> >>
> >>>>whether to encrypt these or not. If we don't, we've added new 
> >>>>processing coplexity on both sides. If we do, we're 
> >>
> >>chewing through 
> >>
> >>>>our counter/iv space, meaning we have to take the 
> >>
> >>heartbeat interval 
> >>
> >>>>into rekey consideration for purposes of lifetime computations.
> >>>>
> >>>>Okay, so clearly, using separate ports has some complexity 
> >>
> >>associated 
> >>
> >>>>with it. What about using a mux header instead? By this, I 
> mean 
> >>>>adding a field between the udp header and the 'data' 
> >>
> >>(capwap header 
> >>
> >>>>or dtls record layer header) to distinguish the two:
> >>>>
> >>>>+----+-----+------+---------+
> >>>>|  IP | UDP | mux | data    |
> >>>>+----+-----+------+---------+
> >>>>
> >>>>Let's say the mux header is 32 bits, and we use only one of 
> these 
> >>>>(for the time being) to indicate control/data (this is 
> >>
> >>much like the 
> >>
> >>>>lwapp 'c' bit). What are the differences in this approach? 
> >>
> >>Two issues 
> >>
> >>>>have been raised:
> >>>>
> >>>>- it adds 4 bytes to the packet
> >>>>
> >>>>- it is unprotected
> >>>>
> >>>>To the first, I would reply that this is a trade-off, the 
> >>
> >>price you 
> >>
> >>>>pay for greatly reduced complexity. But yes, the cost is 4 bytes
> >>>>
> >>>>To the second point, I would reply that Eric addressed this in 
> the 
> >>>>security considerations of the lwapp-dtls draft: there are 
> >>
> >>two things 
> >>
> >>>>an adversary might attempt here: converting protected data 
> into 
> >>>>unprotected data (data channel into control channel), and 
> >>
> >>vice versa.
> >>
> >>>>Now, keep in mind that an attacker must be a MiM to do 
> >>
> >>this, implying 
> >>
> >>>>they can insert and delete packets at will anyway.
> >>>>If the adversary converts a data packet (unencrypted) to a 
> control 
> >>>>packet, decryption/authentication will fail, and this will be 
> >>>>detected. If the adversary converts a control packet 
> (encrypted, 
> >>>>authenticated) to a data packet, it will be interpreted as 
> >>
> >>garbage - 
> >>
> >>>>again, it will be detected.
> >>>>
> >>>>The bottom line: there is no threat here that does not 
> >>
> >>exist in the 
> >>
> >>>>two-port case. They are equivalent in this respect.
> >>>>
> >>>>In the plus column, I think we can say that the mux header 
> >>
> >>approach 
> >>
> >>>>is simpler, in that the NAT-T concerns only apply to one 
> >>
> >>channel, and 
> >>
> >>>>the binding between control and data channels is unambiguous. 
> >>>>Further, it gives the ability to provide a single 
> >>
> >>de-muxing channel 
> >>
> >>>>in the code for inbound packet handling, which may be 
> >>
> >>advantageous, 
> >>
> >>>>depending on implementation nuances.
> >>>>
> >>>>We decided at our meeting yesterday that for these 
> >>
> >>reasons, the mux 
> >>
> >>>>header approach seems the most sensible. Does anyone object?
> >>>>
> >>>>--Scott
> >>>>
> >>>>_________________________________________________________________
> >>>>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> >>>>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >>>>
> >>>>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >>>>
> >>
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > 
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> _________________________________________________________________
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From: Scott G Kelly <scott@hyperthought.com>
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Subject: Re: [Capwap] NAT-T
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Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> I don't agree with the use of a single UDP port, as it would require the
> state of DTLS to be the same for both data and control - certainly not
> something that we've *ever* agreed to. In fact, the concept of DTLS for
> data showed up in the latest document without discussion among the
> editors and the WG. Must discussion needs to occur on this topic before
> we can even assume it is a given.

Okay, one more time for the people in the back of the room: this has 
absolutely nothing to do with data channel encryption - nothing 
whatsover. I've said that several times now, yet people keep coming back 
to this. This is a waste of energy.

> My understanding is that the MUX is used to bind the control and data
> plane, which could be useful if we have two UDP ports. However, you've
> completely lost me as to why it would ever be required if we were to
> make use of a single UDP port. Looking at HTTP, it certainly is
> NAT'able, and there is nothing specific in that protocol that needs to
> be done in order to support NAT.

HTTP has nothing to do with this discussion. This has to do with (1) 
managing 2 separate unbound *datagram* channels over NAT-T, and (2) the 
complexity this adds to the state machine. I can re-write a description 
of the problems we'll have to solve with two channel NAT-T again, but 
the rationale is all in the first email in this thread.

The basic function of the mux header is that it allows you to combine 
the two channels over one UDP transport session. That accomplishes three 
things for us: implicit channel binding, elimination of a second 
keepalive timer and associated processing, and simplification of the 
state machine, both with respect to normal processing and error states. 
It's easier to implement and operate.

A mux header does not require DTLS state for data and control to be the 
same - it does not require DTLS state for data - period. It does, 
however, require a unified input routine which looks at the mux header 
and then de-muxes the traffic (to dtls if control, to capwap if data).
Charles correctly describes the packet format in a later email in this 
thread. Assuming you were blocked on a UDP socket read, you would (in 
the generic sense) receive something like this:

+---------+--------------------------------------+
| MUX Hdr | Encapsulated control or Data Packet  |
+---------+--------------------------------------+

Of course, if you want IP header field values, you can get them with the 
appropriate socket calls. Some implementations might instead want to 
have the whole packet, and those implementations could set a pointer to 
the mux header prior to exec'ing the the code that looks a the mux 
header, but either way, here's pseudocode showing where you wind up:

if ( mux header type is control )
{
   if ( dtlsInput(encap'd data) returns error )
     do error handling
   else if ( capwapInput(unencap'd data) returns error )
     do error handling
}
else /* it's a data packet */
{
   if ( capwapInput(unencap'd data) returns error )
     do error handling
}

[there are certainly more efficient ways to code this, but this is aimed 
at clarity]

You presumably have something very much like this in your lwapp 
implementation right now - it looks at the c bit and makes the same sort 
of demux decision, right?

The only drawback I can see is that you can't use the openssl SSL_read() 
call directly with the socket (assuming you use sockets), due to the mux 
header - but it would be straightforward to code an openssl BIO 
extension to allow this if that were really important to someone.

So, once again, let me summarize: using two unbound datagram channels 
greatly complicates things when compared to this approach. You need to 
create a binding between the two channels somehow, you need to manage 
dual keep-alives (one per channel), and there are more error conditions 
to manage in the state machine.

What are the benefits of the two-port approach that outweigh these 
drawbacks?

Scott

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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] NAT-T
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Charles Clancy" <clancy@cs.umd.edu>
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Thanks Charles, I think you've answered my question.

So my fundamental issue here is that I was under the impression that
DTLS would operate natively over UDP. Now we are adding a new 'bit'
above UDP to allow DTLS to determine whether it needs to
encrypt/decrypt. I think I have fundamental issues with this approach.
Further, my assumption is that if one enables DTLS on a UDP port, that
port will *require* encryption of all packets - and not let those
unencrypted data packets through. If we are doing to use DTLS, then
let's use it as it was intended to be used.

So this brings back my original question of how do we use two ports and
provide correlation between the control and data frame. This could be
done through the Session ID in the CAPWAP header, as you state.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Clancy [mailto:clancy@cs.umd.edu]=20
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:15 PM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Cc: Scott G. Kelly; capwap
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] NAT-T
>=20
> The MUX header would be necessary if you had a DTLS control=20
> channel and an unprotected data channel using the *same* UDP=20
> port.  It would look something like:
>=20
> +---------+-------------+-------------------------------
> | UDP Hdr | MUX Hdr =3D 1 | DTLS Enc Control Packet ....
> +---------+-------------+----------------------
>=20
> +---------+-------------+---------------------------
> | UDP Hdr | MUX Hdr =3D 2 | Encapsulated Data Packet
> +---------+-------------+----------------------
>=20
> It's basically 1 bit (though 32 bits may be necessary for=20
> alignment) that says whether the rest of the packet is=20
> encrypted or not.
>=20
> If you DTLS-encrypt both channels, then the MUX header would=20
> not be necessary.  If you use two UDP channels and have some=20
> way to correlate data and control channels, then the MUX=20
> header is not necessary.  Such correlation could be done=20
> perhaps with a session ID in the CAPWAP header.
>=20
> [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[=20
> www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[=20
> university of maryland | college park ]
>=20
> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> > I don't agree with the use of a single UDP port, as it=20
> would require=20
> > the state of DTLS to be the same for both data and control=20
> - certainly=20
> > not something that we've *ever* agreed to. In fact, the concept of=20
> > DTLS for data showed up in the latest document without discussion=20
> > among the editors and the WG. Must discussion needs to=20
> occur on this=20
> > topic before we can even assume it is a given.
> >=20
> > My understanding is that the MUX is used to bind the=20
> control and data=20
> > plane, which could be useful if we have two UDP ports.=20
> However, you've=20
> > completely lost me as to why it would ever be required if=20
> we were to=20
> > make use of a single UDP port. Looking at HTTP, it certainly is=20
> > NAT'able, and there is nothing specific in that protocol=20
> that needs to=20
> > be done in order to support NAT.
> >=20
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> >=20
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]
> >>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:03 PM
> >>To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
> >>Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
> >>
> >>Yes, I'm suggesting use of one port with a mux header rather than 2=20
> >>ports: it's much simpler operationally.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>
> >>>From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
> >>>Sent: Mar 22, 2006 11:27 AM
> >>>To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>, capwap=20
> >>><capwap@frascone.com>
> >>>Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
> >>>
> >>>Scott,
> >>>
> >>>I'm not sure I follow.
> >>>
> >>>Are you stating that the MUX is a replacement for the dual=20
> UDP port=20
> >>>solution? The latter allows existing NATs to handle the
> >>
> >>packet, while
> >>
> >>>the MUX is useful at the application layer. That said, I'm=20
> not sure=20
> >>>that I understand why we cannot rely on the BSSID in the
> >>
> >>802.11 frame
> >>
> >>>to identify the WTP.
> >>>
> >>>Pat Calhoun
> >>>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]
> >>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:53 AM
> >>>>To: capwap
> >>>>Subject: [Capwap] NAT-T
> >>>>
> >>>>Hi All,
> >>>>
> >>>>A group of us met yesterday to discuss dtls integration, and one=20
> >>>>related design point pertains to nat traversal. In
> >>
> >>particular, how we
> >>
> >>>>decide to handle directly impacts the design for dtls
> >>
> >>integration, so
> >>
> >>>>we want to get this resolved ASAP.
> >>>>
> >>>>In the original lwapp-dtls draft, we discussed two options for
> >>>>differentiation: use a mux header, or use separate UDP
> >>
> >>ports, one for
> >>
> >>>>data and one for control. Initial agreement seems to be on the=20
> >>>>two-port approach, but this has nat-t implications.
> >>>>
> >>>>Assume we're using two ports; in that case, the problem=20
> we have to=20
> >>>>solve is many ways similar to the one solved by the ipsec
> >>
> >>group (I'll
> >>
> >>>>use NAT rather than NAPT, as it's simpler to type :-)):
> >>>>
> >>>>- the WTP sends a DISCOVER to the AC; note that if this is
> >>
> >>broadcast,
> >>
> >>>>no reply would be possible using a standard NAT=20
> implementation, as=20
> >>>>the NAT binding would be to the tuple (WTP-IP, BCAST-IP, UDP,=20
> >>>>WTP-PORT, AC-PORT). Since the response would not be from=20
> BCAST-IP,=20
> >>>>standard NAT implementations would drop it. This implies directed=20
> >>>>DISCOVER messages
> >>>>
> >>>>- *if* the AC responds within the NAT binding timeout
> >>
> >>period (while
> >>
> >>>>the mapping record still exists on the middlebox), the WTP will=20
> >>>>receive the response; otherwise, it will be silently dropped
> >>>>
> >>>>- assuming the WTP receives the response and wants to
> >>
> >>associate with
> >>
> >>>>the AC, it initiates the JOIN process (yes, the JOIN must
> >>
> >>be brought
> >>
> >>>>back, more on that later). One or both sides must also start a=20
> >>>>heartbeat over this channel in order to keep the NAPT binding(s)=20
> >>>>active.
> >>>>
> >>>>- one point we skipped is that of NAT detection. You could always=20
> >>>>send heartbeats, regardless of the presence of NAT, but=20
> if you use=20
> >>>>the two-port method, you must detect NAT in any case (for reasons=20
> >>>>that will become obvious soon). The way IPsec handled this
> >>
> >>is to have
> >>
> >>>>the WTP include it's IP and port in one of the messages
> >>
> >>(in our case,
> >>
> >>>>during the JOIN), and having the AC compare this to the
> >>
> >>adress in the
> >>
> >>>>packet header; if they differ, the AC must inform the WTP
> >>
> >>of this in
> >>
> >>>>the response.
> >>>>
> >>>>- NAT detection may be used as an indicator that heartbeat
> >>
> >>messages
> >>
> >>>>are needed. Note that the interval should probably be=20
> configurable=20
> >>>>(with sensible defaults),  as there is no standard NAT mapping=20
> >>>>lifetime.
> >>>>
> >>>>Okay, so now we have the control channel. The first data channel=20
> >>>>message must be from a STA trying to associate. The WTP
> >>
> >>bundles this
> >>
> >>>>up and sends it to the AC - how does the AC associate this with a=20
> >>>>given WTP? Note that there is no guarantee the data
> >>
> >>channel will have
> >>
> >>>>the same source address as the control channel (L3=20
> switching, load=20
> >>>>balancing), so we need a binding mechanism to associate
> >>
> >>the data and
> >>
> >>>>control channels, from the AC's perspective.
> >>>>
> >>>>We could do this by placing the same session ID as used for the=20
> >>>>control channel into the data channel capwap header, but
> >>
> >>this header
> >>
> >>>>will be encrypted once dtls starts, adding some complexity
> >>
> >>to packet
> >>
> >>>>handling. Also, we need to manage heartbeats over this channel as=20
> >>>>well, and since we're doing dtls on this channel, we have
> >>
> >>to decide
> >>
> >>>>whether to encrypt these or not. If we don't, we've added new=20
> >>>>processing coplexity on both sides. If we do, we're
> >>
> >>chewing through
> >>
> >>>>our counter/iv space, meaning we have to take the
> >>
> >>heartbeat interval
> >>
> >>>>into rekey consideration for purposes of lifetime computations.
> >>>>
> >>>>Okay, so clearly, using separate ports has some complexity
> >>
> >>associated
> >>
> >>>>with it. What about using a mux header instead? By this, I mean=20
> >>>>adding a field between the udp header and the 'data'
> >>
> >>(capwap header
> >>
> >>>>or dtls record layer header) to distinguish the two:
> >>>>
> >>>>+----+-----+------+---------+
> >>>>|  IP | UDP | mux | data    |
> >>>>+----+-----+------+---------+
> >>>>
> >>>>Let's say the mux header is 32 bits, and we use only one of these=20
> >>>>(for the time being) to indicate control/data (this is
> >>
> >>much like the
> >>
> >>>>lwapp 'c' bit). What are the differences in this approach?=20
> >>
> >>Two issues
> >>
> >>>>have been raised:
> >>>>
> >>>>- it adds 4 bytes to the packet
> >>>>
> >>>>- it is unprotected
> >>>>
> >>>>To the first, I would reply that this is a trade-off, the
> >>
> >>price you
> >>
> >>>>pay for greatly reduced complexity. But yes, the cost is 4 bytes
> >>>>
> >>>>To the second point, I would reply that Eric addressed=20
> this in the=20
> >>>>security considerations of the lwapp-dtls draft: there are
> >>
> >>two things
> >>
> >>>>an adversary might attempt here: converting protected data into=20
> >>>>unprotected data (data channel into control channel), and
> >>
> >>vice versa.
> >>
> >>>>Now, keep in mind that an attacker must be a MiM to do
> >>
> >>this, implying
> >>
> >>>>they can insert and delete packets at will anyway.
> >>>>If the adversary converts a data packet (unencrypted) to=20
> a control=20
> >>>>packet, decryption/authentication will fail, and this will be=20
> >>>>detected. If the adversary converts a control packet (encrypted,
> >>>>authenticated) to a data packet, it will be interpreted as
> >>
> >>garbage -
> >>
> >>>>again, it will be detected.
> >>>>
> >>>>The bottom line: there is no threat here that does not
> >>
> >>exist in the
> >>
> >>>>two-port case. They are equivalent in this respect.
> >>>>
> >>>>In the plus column, I think we can say that the mux header
> >>
> >>approach
> >>
> >>>>is simpler, in that the NAT-T concerns only apply to one
> >>
> >>channel, and
> >>
> >>>>the binding between control and data channels is unambiguous.=20
> >>>>Further, it gives the ability to provide a single
> >>
> >>de-muxing channel
> >>
> >>>>in the code for inbound packet handling, which may be
> >>
> >>advantageous,
> >>
> >>>>depending on implementation nuances.
> >>>>
> >>>>We decided at our meeting yesterday that for these
> >>
> >>reasons, the mux
> >>
> >>>>header approach seems the most sensible. Does anyone object?
> >>>>
> >>>>--Scott
> >>>>
> >>>>_________________________________________________________________
> >>>>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> >>>>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >>>>
> >>>>Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >>>>
> >>
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >=20
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Scott G Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>
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[...]=20

> if ( mux header type is control )
> {
>    if ( dtlsInput(encap'd data) returns error )
>      do error handling
>    else if ( capwapInput(unencap'd data) returns error )
>      do error handling
> }
> else /* it's a data packet */
> {
>    if ( capwapInput(unencap'd data) returns error )
>      do error handling
> }
>=20
[...]=20
>=20
> The only drawback I can see is that you can't use the openssl=20
> SSL_read() call directly with the socket (assuming you use=20
> sockets), due to the mux header - but it would be=20
> straightforward to code an openssl BIO extension to allow=20
> this if that were really important to someone.

My confusion stemmed from the fact that I had missed that you were using
openSSL in a completely different way from the way it is traditionally
used. I am not in agreement with the use of DTLS if we end up having to
play games on having the app invoke DTLS when it is convenient. I agree
to the use of DTLS, but in the traditional sense of having a port be
DTLS enabled (control), and one without. No MUX needed.

>=20
> So, once again, let me summarize: using two unbound datagram=20
> channels greatly complicates things when compared to this=20
> approach. You need to create a binding between the two=20
> channels somehow, you need to manage dual keep-alives (one=20
> per channel), and there are more error conditions to manage=20
> in the state machine.

Correct - and there are ways to do this. For instance, the combination
of the IP address and the Session ID would be one such way.

>=20
> What are the benefits of the two-port approach that outweigh=20
> these drawbacks?
The use of openSSL-read(), and the traditional use of DTLS, eliminating
the need to do a security review of how we actually use the protocol -
the whole reasoning for using a standard approach in the first place.


Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
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From: Darren <dplore@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Capwap] Handover issue
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At IETF65 I heard a couple of suggestions that a CAPWAP roadmap
document should be written.  Given the number of good ideas and
additional requirements popping up, it seems clear there is going to
be need for CAPWAP development for the next several years.

In order to have a completed capwap version 1 protocol this year, we
need to finish a specification for only the most basic features.

Extensions to the core capwap protocol version 1 can be planned and
debated as part of a roadmap document. I also strongly believe that AC
- AC communications is important, but it is out of scope for version 1
of CAPWAP and it should be a roadmap item.

-Darren Loher


On 3/23/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:
> Behcet, I believe that I claimed that 802.1X authentication works for
> both local and split MAC. In both cases, the 802.11 MAC management
> packets, and 802.1X, need to be forwarded to the AC for centralized
> authentication.
>
> Moving across ACs is out of scope for CAPWAP.
>
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 4:37 PM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: Re: [Capwap] Handover issue
> >
> > Dear all,
> >   Before we forget, I wanted to wrap up the issues arising
> > from today's
> > presentation:
> > - Puneet's question on roaming, STA roaming not WTP roaming
> > is what we are trying to do
> > - France Telecom colleague's question on the relationship
> > with NEMO, NEMO and MIP try to provide the session
> > continuity, i.e. try to keep the same IP address so that the
> > sessions do not break after handover. This is not what
> > CAPWAPHP is after. We are interested in roaming support that
> > is needed to be included in the CAPWAP protocol.
> > - Pat mentioned that he was concerned on our model for Local
> > MAC roaming handling in CAPWAPHP.
> > - Pat claimed that the Split MAC solution is already in
> > CAPWAP protocol, however, of the two scenarios we have in
> > CAPWAPHP only one of them is partially covered in CAPWAP.
> >  - Pat asked on inter-AC roaming, here the roaming scenario
> > is where STA moves from a WTP in one domain, e.g. Verizon to
> > a WTP in another domain, e.g. T-Mobile.
> >   Have I missed anything?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > --behcet
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
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Hi Pat,

<much trimmed...>

>> Tthe only drawback I can see is that you can't use the openssl 
>> SSL_read() call directly with the socket (assuming you use 
>> sockets), due to the mux header - but it would be 
>> straightforward to code an openssl BIO extension to allow 
>> this if that were really important to someone.
>
>My confusion stemmed from the fact that I had missed that you were using
>openSSL in a completely different way from the way it is traditionally
>used. I am not in agreement with the use of DTLS if we end up having to
>play games on having the app invoke DTLS when it is convenient. I agree
>to the use of DTLS, but in the traditional sense of having a port be
>DTLS enabled (control), and one without. No MUX needed.

There is no game-playing here - this is exactly what lwapp does today: look at a header field and branch based on whether it's a control packet or a data packet. Is there something technically wrong with this?

As for openssl tradition, openssl supports the BIO abstraction, which allows all sorts of "traditional" approaches to input/output. I think by traditional, you probably mean "socket", but that is a misconception. But this is a distraction, and here's why: openssl is not the security protocol here; DTLS is. Openssl provides one example of an open-source implementation of DTLS, but there are others - and there is no requirement that our solution conform to one particular open-source interpretation. Rather, we should aim to conform to the DTLS specification.

If this socket issue is the only complaint you have, I think we can find someone to provide the community with a dtls extension BIO for openssl which ignores the mux header (or in general, n bytes at the beginning of the buffer). I'm sure this would be useful for other applications. Will that address your concerns? Having spent a significant portion of the last few months knee-deep in the openssl dtls code, I can assert authoritatively that this is not a difficult thing to add, and it will have absolutely no impact on the security properties of dtls. 

And I think this is an important enough point that I want to emphasize it again: however one particular openssl implementer chose to render one particular embodiment of DTLS, we shlould not be discussing standardizing on that API. I can just about guarantee that if we try to send through a standards document which depends on openssl, the security ADs will send this back for a do-over. Openssl is not a standard - it's an open-source implementation.

>> So, once again, let me summarize: using two unbound datagram 
>> channels greatly complicates things when compared to this 
>> approach. You need to create a binding between the two 
>> channels somehow, you need to manage dual keep-alives (one 
>> per channel), and there are more error conditions to manage 
>> in the state machine.
>
>Correct - and there are ways to do this. For instance, the combination
>of the IP address and the Session ID would be one such way.

Of course there are ways to do it - but the two-port approach is more painful and prone to implementation error, and the state machine is much simpler if we don't go this route. Simpler implementations are almost certainly more secure. Your current implementation already does what I am proposing. I don't understand the resistance.

>> What are the benefits of the two-port approach that outweigh 
>> these drawbacks?
>The use of openSSL-read(), and the traditional use of DTLS, eliminating
>the need to do a security review of how we actually use the protocol -
>the whole reasoning for using a standard approach in the first place.

I think the fear of additional security review is a bit irrational. If we use the protocol according to specification, no additional security review will be required (beyond the ongoing review we will be conducting in any event). We are not talking about hacking dtls in any way. We are talking about using it in completely standard way. But again, let me underscore the point: DTLS is the standard; openssl is *not*. Let's not confuse these.

Scott

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From: "Yang, Lily L" <lily.l.yang@intel.com>
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Does anyone aware of any open source development effort for CAPWAP?
Obviously the protocol itself is still evolving but I am just wondering
if there is any effort underway that is in public domain?

Any insight will be appreciated.

=20

=20

Thanks,

Lily


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Does anyone aware of any open source development =
effort for
CAPWAP? Obviously the protocol itself is still evolving but I am just =
wondering
if there is any effort underway that is in public =
domain?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Any insight will be =
appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Lily<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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From: Rajesh.Mohan@flextronicssoftware.com
To: "'Scott G. Kelly'" <scott@hyperthought.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:20:01 +0530
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Hi Scott,

Very keen on seeing your next draft on NAT-T, esp the topologies that you
have considered. If it is just a matter of forwarding one email to the
group, can you share the objectives of NAT-T?

Assuming a traditional NAT device that supports port-forwarding, is there
any restriction on where we place AC/WTP (w.r.t. public-private network).
Also, tunneling data-packets to a different AC must be covered. In that
case, WTP must detect NAT device in the path to data-AC and may have to run
two keepalives. There are other requirements which I am sure are covered. If
there is a writeup or some text on these, please share it.

Regards,
-Rajesh Mohan


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 11:10 PM
To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
Cc: capwap
Subject: RE: [Capwap] NAT-T


Hi Pat,

<much trimmed...>

>> Tthe only drawback I can see is that you can't use the openssl
>> SSL_read() call directly with the socket (assuming you use
>> sockets), due to the mux header - but it would be
>> straightforward to code an openssl BIO extension to allow
>> this if that were really important to someone.
>
>My confusion stemmed from the fact that I had missed that you were using
>openSSL in a completely different way from the way it is traditionally
>used. I am not in agreement with the use of DTLS if we end up having to
>play games on having the app invoke DTLS when it is convenient. I agree
>to the use of DTLS, but in the traditional sense of having a port be
>DTLS enabled (control), and one without. No MUX needed.

There is no game-playing here - this is exactly what lwapp does today: look
at a header field and branch based on whether it's a control packet or a
data packet. Is there something technically wrong with this?

As for openssl tradition, openssl supports the BIO abstraction, which allows
all sorts of "traditional" approaches to input/output. I think by
traditional, you probably mean "socket", but that is a misconception. But
this is a distraction, and here's why: openssl is not the security protocol
here; DTLS is. Openssl provides one example of an open-source implementation
of DTLS, but there are others - and there is no requirement that our
solution conform to one particular open-source interpretation. Rather, we
should aim to conform to the DTLS specification.

If this socket issue is the only complaint you have, I think we can find
someone to provide the community with a dtls extension BIO for openssl which
ignores the mux header (or in general, n bytes at the beginning of the
buffer). I'm sure this would be useful for other applications. Will that
address your concerns? Having spent a significant portion of the last few
months knee-deep in the openssl dtls code, I can assert authoritatively that
this is not a difficult thing to add, and it will have absolutely no impact
on the security properties of dtls.

And I think this is an important enough point that I want to emphasize it
again: however one particular openssl implementer chose to render one
particular embodiment of DTLS, we shlould not be discussing standardizing on
that API. I can just about guarantee that if we try to send through a
standards document which depends on openssl, the security ADs will send this
back for a do-over. Openssl is not a standard - it's an open-source
implementation.

>> So, once again, let me summarize: using two unbound datagram
>> channels greatly complicates things when compared to this
>> approach. You need to create a binding between the two
>> channels somehow, you need to manage dual keep-alives (one
>> per channel), and there are more error conditions to manage
>> in the state machine.
>
>Correct - and there are ways to do this. For instance, the combination
>of the IP address and the Session ID would be one such way.

Of course there are ways to do it - but the two-port approach is more
painful and prone to implementation error, and the state machine is much
simpler if we don't go this route. Simpler implementations are almost
certainly more secure. Your current implementation already does what I am
proposing. I don't understand the resistance.

>> What are the benefits of the two-port approach that outweigh
>> these drawbacks?
>The use of openSSL-read(), and the traditional use of DTLS, eliminating
>the need to do a security review of how we actually use the protocol -
>the whole reasoning for using a standard approach in the first place.

I think the fear of additional security review is a bit irrational. If we
use the protocol according to specification, no additional security review
will be required (beyond the ongoing review we will be conducting in any
event). We are not talking about hacking dtls in any way. We are talking
about using it in completely standard way. But again, let me underscore the
point: DTLS is the standard; openssl is *not*. Let's not confuse these.

Scott

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Hi Rajesh,

Rajesh.Mohan@flextronicssoftware.com wrote:
> Hi Scott,
> 
> Very keen on seeing your next draft on NAT-T, esp the topologies that you
> have considered. If it is just a matter of forwarding one email to the
> group, can you share the objectives of NAT-T?
> Assuming a traditional NAT device that supports port-forwarding, is there
> any restriction on where we place AC/WTP (w.r.t. public-private network).
> Also, tunneling data-packets to a different AC must be covered. In that
> case, WTP must detect NAT device in the path to data-AC and may have to run
> two keepalives. There are other requirements which I am sure are covered. If
> there is a writeup or some text on these, please share it.
> 
> Regards,
> -Rajesh Mohan


To be clear, I have no intention of writing a draft on this at this 
time. However, I've asked before if people would detail the NAT 
scenarios they think must be supported, but nobody gave any detail.

Personally, I think most such scenarios require a VPN between the two 
network edges (for security reasons), so this is more a routing problem 
than a NAT-T problem. Some folks might object to this assessment, yet 
none seem willing to detail concrete examples. I think that in order to 
assess requirements, we need a complete enumeration of use cases. Short 
of that, I don't think we should consider NAT-T.

Scott
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:38:22 -0800
From: Scott G Kelly <scott@hyperthought.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient capwap base protocol
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At the capwap wg meeting last week, the chairs and editors detailed a 
very aggressive schedule for completing the capwap protocol document. 
Basically, we want to wrap this up sometime in July. I think this is 
highly optimistic (some might say unrealistic) given all the 
functionality folks are saying we must support.

I'd like to make a suggestion, following precedents set in other working 
groups faced with similar problems: we should define a base protocol 
consisting of the minimal necessary and sufficient elements for capwap 
interoperability. In addition, I think we should discuss Darren's 
question about a roadmap document (and/or effort). Here, we could detail 
extensions we intend to address once the base protocol is complete.

Some things I think we might want to consider deferring from the base 
protocol discussion include these:

- NAT traversal (IPsec working group did this as an add-on, and since 
not all vendors care about this, it makes sense to consider that 
approach here)

- AC/WTP load balancing; different vendors have different approaches, 
and it's not clear that we should be forcing one vendor's view on 
everyone else.

- split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a different endpoint 
than the control channel; this has definite security implications, and 
probably requires a secure inter-AC protocol, in addition to its own 
state machine loop(s). It's a corner case that many won't care about.

I'm sure there are others. I'm not in my office right now, so I don't 
have the annotated document handy, but I'll make a point of looking at 
it Monday and following up with any additional items.

I want to emphasize that this does not preclude support of any 
particular feature - rather, it is a pragmatic approach aimed at getting 
us to a standard protocol quickly. I'd like to hear what others think 
about this.

--Scott

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From: Philip Rakity <philip.rakity@u4eatech.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient capwap base protocol
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 14:05:45 -0800
To: Scott G Kelly <scott@hyperthought.com>
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Scott,

We strongly believe that this specification (in it's draft 3  
incarnation) could not be implemented in a manner that allowed 3  
independent  implementation to inter-operate.   Draft-00 is better  
but still will have holes.   (Just looking at NAT and DTLS).  Before  
progressing to a real RFC, we believe a number of back-off's are  
required.

regards,

Philip


On Mar 25, 2006, at 9:38 AM, Scott G Kelly wrote:

> At the capwap wg meeting last week, the chairs and editors detailed  
> a very aggressive schedule for completing the capwap protocol  
> document. Basically, we want to wrap this up sometime in July. I  
> think this is highly optimistic (some might say unrealistic) given  
> all the functionality folks are saying we must support.
>
> I'd like to make a suggestion, following precedents set in other  
> working groups faced with similar problems: we should define a base  
> protocol consisting of the minimal necessary and sufficient  
> elements for capwap interoperability. In addition, I think we  
> should discuss Darren's question about a roadmap document (and/or  
> effort). Here, we could detail extensions we intend to address once  
> the base protocol is complete.
>
> Some things I think we might want to consider deferring from the  
> base protocol discussion include these:
>
> - NAT traversal (IPsec working group did this as an add-on, and  
> since not all vendors care about this, it makes sense to consider  
> that approach here)
>
> - AC/WTP load balancing; different vendors have different  
> approaches, and it's not clear that we should be forcing one  
> vendor's view on everyone else.
>
> - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a different  
> endpoint than the control channel; this has definite security  
> implications, and probably requires a secure inter-AC protocol, in  
> addition to its own state machine loop(s). It's a corner case that  
> many won't care about.
>
> I'm sure there are others. I'm not in my office right now, so I  
> don't have the annotated document handy, but I'll make a point of  
> looking at it Monday and following up with any additional items.
>
> I want to emphasize that this does not preclude support of any  
> particular feature - rather, it is a pragmatic approach aimed at  
> getting us to a standard protocol quickly. I'd like to hear what  
> others think about this.
>
> --Scott
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap

Philip Rakity
prakity@u4eatech.com


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I've captured this item as Issue 89.


  _____  

From: R M [mailto:rm0771@gmail.com] 
Sent: March 22, 2006 11:24 AM
To: Richard Gwee
Cc: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: Re: [Capwap] CAPWAP Protocol Concerns Summary


On AC, how can you tell if the packet is "CAPWAP Discovery Request" or
"DTLS Client Hello". If this is an issue and is not covered in any of the
ones listed below, please add this to the list. 
 
If this is not an issue, I request someone to tell me how I can
differentiate the too. To me, I can see both the packets coming to AC in the
same state (due to retransmissions or the WTP getting reset or similar
scenarios). 
 
Thanks.

 
On 3/22/06, Richard Gwee <richard_gwee@rp.sg <mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg> >
wrote: 

Dear All,

 

Below is a summary of the points that I have presented during the CAPWAP
session regarding the CAPWAP protocol concerns.

 

Issue 1: Change of State Machine.

 

There is a need to provide a clearer State Machine as some of the
transitions between states are not clearly indicated. For example, from the
DTLS-complete to the Configure State or Image Data State, there is no clear
explanation on the basis of how the transition should be carried out. I have
noticed from the Mailing list that there have been proposals to change the
State Machine. Similar issues have also been listed on the issue trackers.
We should take a close look into creating a viable State Machine first. 

 

Reference: 

Issue Tracker: Issue #85

Mailing List: Email by Sujay (" Addition to SM and Configure States") dated
17 March 2006.

 

Issue 2: Load Balancing For WTP

 

Message element in WTP Manager (Section 5.2.4 and 5.2.5) only contains IP
addresses and WTP count. While I do not condone the use of WTP count, I
strongly believe that effective load balancing cannot be performed just
using these parameters. There is a need to include more parameters such as
Traffic loading, network congestion etc. Although Pat Calhoun has mentioned
that such parameters capture only a snapshot of the network conditions, I
believe that this problem can be resolved through the use of periodic
updating of capturing the network conditions. Furthermore, what Pat has
argued is mainly scenario specific under fast mobility conditions. I will
appreciate if Pat can clarify more on the reason why my suggestion may not
be practical enough. I welcome any feedback. 

 

I will appreciate if this can become an issue on the issue tracker.

 

Issue 3: General Statistics

 

There is a need to include general statistics for CAPWAP protocol. So far, I
have noticed only statistics that is technology-bind (in this case 802.11)
as stated in the draft.  There is a need to have statistics that is
applicable for the overall network such as congestion, traffic loading,
channel interferences etc. This type of information can be piggy backed on
regular messages exchange such as echo request. This issue has been listed
in the tracker. 

 

Reference:

Issue Tracker: Issue #84, #45, 

Comparative Analysis Draft (Section 4.6.1)

 

Issue 4: Firmware Trigger

 

There is little clear indication on the State Machine of how firmware
trigger should be carried out in the running state. Firmware Management has
also been stated as optional in the draft specification. To ensure
consistent firmware version, we should made firmware management mandatory
and introduce proactive firmware trigger in the running state. Pat has
suggested the use of making firmware management mandatory for AC and
optional for WTP. I am ok with the suggestion. 

 

Reference:

Issue Tracker: Issue #40

Comparative Analysis Draft (Section 4.1.5)

 

I appreciate any comments and feedback if I have missed out anything.

 

Thanks and regards

Richard Gwee.



  _____  







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MRT/Interchange)
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<BODY>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=581272715-27032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>I've captured this item as Issue 
89.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
  <HR tabIndex=-1>
  <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> R M [mailto:rm0771@gmail.com] 
  <BR><B>Sent:</B> March 22, 2006 11:24 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Richard 
  Gwee<BR><B>Cc:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Capwap] CAPWAP 
  Protocol Concerns Summary<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>On AC, how can you tell if the packet is "CAPWAP Discovery Request" 
  or&nbsp; "DTLS Client Hello". If this is an issue and is not covered in any of 
  the ones listed below, please add this to the list. </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>If this is not an issue, I request someone to tell&nbsp;me&nbsp;how I can 
  differentiate the too. To me, I can see both the packets coming to AC in the 
  same state (due to retransmissions or the WTP getting reset or similar 
  scenarios). </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Thanks.<BR><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 3/22/06, <B class=gmail_sendername>Richard 
  Gwee</B> &lt;<A href="mailto:richard_gwee@rp.sg">richard_gwee@rp.sg</A>&gt; 
  wrote:</SPAN> 
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote 
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
    <DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr">
    <DIV>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dear All,</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Below is a summary of the points 
    that I have presented during the CAPWAP session regarding the CAPWAP 
    protocol concerns.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue 1: Change of State 
    Machine.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">There is a need to provide a 
    clearer State Machine as some of the transitions between states are not 
    clearly indicated. For example, from the DTLS-complete to the Configure 
    State or Image Data State, there is no clear explanation on the basis of how 
    the transition should be carried out. I have noticed from the Mailing list 
    that there have been proposals to change the State Machine. Similar issues 
    have also been listed on the issue trackers. We should take a close look 
    into creating a viable State Machine first. </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Reference: </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue Tracker: Issue 
    #85</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Mailing List: Email by Sujay (" 
    Addition to SM and Configure States") dated 17 March 2006.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue 2: Load Balancing For 
    WTP</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Message element in WTP Manager 
    (Section 5.2.4 and 5.2.5) only contains IP addresses and WTP count. While I 
    do not condone the use of WTP count, I strongly believe that effective load 
    balancing cannot be performed just using these parameters. There is a need 
    to include more parameters such as Traffic loading, network congestion etc. 
    Although Pat Calhoun has mentioned that such parameters capture only a 
    snapshot of the network conditions, I believe that this problem can be 
    resolved through the use of periodic updating of capturing the network 
    conditions. Furthermore, what Pat has argued is mainly scenario specific 
    under fast mobility conditions. I will appreciate if Pat can clarify more on 
    the reason why my suggestion may not be practical enough. I welcome any 
    feedback. </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I will appreciate if this can 
    become an issue on the issue tracker.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue 3: General 
    Statistics</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">There is a need to include 
    general statistics for CAPWAP protocol. So far, I have noticed only 
    statistics that is technology-bind (in this case 802.11) as stated in the 
    draft. &nbsp;There is a need to have statistics that is applicable for the 
    overall network such as congestion, traffic loading, channel interferences 
    etc. This type of information can be piggy backed on regular messages 
    exchange such as echo request. This issue has been listed in the tracker. 
    </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Reference:</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue Tracker: Issue #84, #45, 
    </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Comparative Analysis Draft 
    (Section 4.6.1)</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue 4: Firmware 
    Trigger</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">There is little clear indication 
    on the State Machine of how firmware trigger should be carried out in the 
    running state. Firmware Management has also been stated as optional in the 
    draft specification. To ensure consistent firmware version, we should made 
    firmware management mandatory and introduce proactive firmware trigger in 
    the running state. Pat has suggested the use of making firmware management 
    mandatory for AC and optional for WTP. I am ok with the suggestion. 
    </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Reference:</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Issue Tracker: Issue 
    #40</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Comparative Analysis Draft 
    (Section 4.1.5)</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I appreciate any comments and 
    feedback if I have missed out anything.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks and 
    regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Richard 
    Gwee.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <P align=center><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
    face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3>
    <HR>
    </FONT></FONT></FONT>
    <P></P>
    <P align=center>
    <TABLE width="100%">
      <TBODY>
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        <TD width="100%">
          <P align=center><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN 
          style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Republic Polytechnic, 9 
          Woodlands Avenue 9, Singapore 738964 (Near Woodlands 
          MRT/Interchange)</SPAN><BR>. </FONT><A title=http://www.rp.edu.sg/ 
          onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" 
          href="http://www.rp.sg/" target=_blank><FONT 
          title=http://www.rp.edu.sg/ face=Tahoma color=blue size=2><U 
          title=http://www.rp.edu.sg/>www.rp.sg</U></FONT></A><FONT face=Tahoma 
          size=2> . Fax: +65 6415-1310 . </FONT></P>
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          <P align=center><FONT face=Tahoma size=1><I>Republic Polytechnic, the 
          first Institute of Higher Learning to fully adopt the Problem-Based 
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          practices and maintain excellence in service standards with the 
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Mar 27 10:33:09 2006
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: Puneet Agarwal <pagarwal@broadcom.com>, capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
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Puneet,
 
One issue I see with using 802.3 frames in split-MAC mode is that the WTP
would have to reformat every 802.11 management frame that it exchanges with
the AC. For this reason, I think that it makes sense to use 802.11 frame
formats in split-MAC mode.
 
Cheers,
 
    Mike


  _____  

From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] 
Sent: March 23, 2006 1:08 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC


Hi All,
 
One of the recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to
tunnel 802.3 frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement was
interpreted as tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. However after talking
to various folks at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent was to tunnel
802.3 frames in the split MAC (and not local MAC).
 
Hence I would propose the following:
 
(a) Delete the tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC<->WTP for Local MAC and
replace it with (b).
(b) Add tunneling 802.3 frames between AC <-> WTP for Split MAC. Following
the notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC should be defined
(based on recommendation of the eval team) as follows. I have marked the
changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1 with * (note: section 11.1.1
remains unchanged - this proposal is an addition to and not a replacement
for section 11.1.1):
 
        Function                               Location
        -------------                               -------------
            Distribution Service                       AC
            Integration Service                       *WTP*
            Beacon Generation                       WTP
            Probe Response                           WTP
            Power Mgmt/Packet Buffering        WTP
            Fragmentation/Defragmentation      WTP
            Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc              AC
 
       802.11e
            Classifying                               AC
            Scheduling                               *WTP* (I don't
understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at AC)
            Queuing                                   WTP
 
       802.11i
            802.1X/EAP                                AC
            Key Management                        AC
            802.11 Encryption/Decryption      *WTP*
 
Thanks.
 
-Puneet
 


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<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=US-ASCII">


<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203323115-27032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>Puneet,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203323115-27032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203323115-27032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>One issue I see with using 802.3 frames in split-MAC mode 
is that the WTP would have to reformat every 802.11 management frame that it 
exchanges with the AC. For this reason, I think that it makes sense to use 
802.11 frame formats in split-MAC mode.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203323115-27032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203323115-27032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203323115-27032006><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203323115-27032006>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT 
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Mike</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
  <HR tabIndex=-1>
  <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Puneet Agarwal 
  [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> March 23, 2006 1:08 
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Capwap] Data 
  tunneling between WTP &lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi 
  All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial size=2>One of the 
  recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to tunnel 802.3 
  frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement was interpreted as 
  tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. However after talking to various folks 
  at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent was to tunnel 802.3 frames in the 
  split MAC (and not local MAC).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hence I would 
  propose the following:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial size=2>(a) Delete the 
  tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC&lt;-&gt;WTP for Local MAC and replace it 
  with (b).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial size=2>(b) Add tunneling 
  802.3 frames between AC &lt;-&gt; WTP for Split MAC. Following the notation in 
  section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC should be defined (based on 
  recommendation of the eval team) as follows. I have marked the changes wrt the 
  draft-00's section 11.1.1 with * (note: section 11.1.1 remains unchanged - 
  this proposal is an addition to and not a replacement for section 
  11.1.1):</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Function&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Location</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  -------------<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Distribution 
  Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Integration 
  Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Beacon 
  Generation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Probe 
  Response&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Power Mgmt/Packet 
  Buffering&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Fragmentation/Defragmentation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;AC</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  802.11e<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Classifying&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Scheduling&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*&nbsp;(I 
  don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at 
  AC)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Queuing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  WTP</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  802.11i<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  802.1X/EAP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Key 
  Management&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  802.11 
  Encryption/Decryption&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=762204805-23032006><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: Darren <dplore@gmail.com>, capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Handover issue
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:37:42 -0500
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I totally agree that we have way too much work to do to get the base CAPWAP
protocol published as an RFC, and we should consider AC-AC communications
should be out-of-scope for this submission.

Cheers,

	Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren [mailto:dplore@gmail.com] 
> Sent: March 24, 2006 12:13 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Cc: sarikaya@ieee.org
> Subject: Re: [Capwap] Handover issue
> 
> At IETF65 I heard a couple of suggestions that a CAPWAP 
> roadmap document should be written.  Given the number of good 
> ideas and additional requirements popping up, it seems clear 
> there is going to be need for CAPWAP development for the next 
> several years.
> 
> In order to have a completed capwap version 1 protocol this 
> year, we need to finish a specification for only the most 
> basic features.
> 
> Extensions to the core capwap protocol version 1 can be 
> planned and debated as part of a roadmap document. I also 
> strongly believe that AC
> - AC communications is important, but it is out of scope for 
> version 1 of CAPWAP and it should be a roadmap item.
> 
> -Darren Loher
> 
> 
> On 3/23/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:
> > Behcet, I believe that I claimed that 802.1X authentication 
> works for 
> > both local and split MAC. In both cases, the 802.11 MAC management 
> > packets, and 802.1X, need to be forwarded to the AC for centralized 
> > authentication.
> >
> > Moving across ACs is out of scope for CAPWAP.
> >
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 4:37 PM
> > > To: capwap@frascone.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Capwap] Handover issue
> > >
> > > Dear all,
> > >   Before we forget, I wanted to wrap up the issues arising
> > > from today's
> > > presentation:
> > > - Puneet's question on roaming, STA roaming not WTP roaming
> > > is what we are trying to do
> > > - France Telecom colleague's question on the relationship
> > > with NEMO, NEMO and MIP try to provide the session
> > > continuity, i.e. try to keep the same IP address so that the
> > > sessions do not break after handover. This is not what
> > > CAPWAPHP is after. We are interested in roaming support that
> > > is needed to be included in the CAPWAP protocol.
> > > - Pat mentioned that he was concerned on our model for Local
> > > MAC roaming handling in CAPWAPHP.
> > > - Pat claimed that the Split MAC solution is already in
> > > CAPWAP protocol, however, of the two scenarios we have in
> > > CAPWAPHP only one of them is partially covered in CAPWAP.
> > >  - Pat asked on inter-AC roaming, here the roaming scenario
> > > is where STA moves from a WTP in one domain, e.g. Verizon to
> > > a WTP in another domain, e.g. T-Mobile.
> > >   Have I missed anything?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > --behcet
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: Puneet Agarwal <pagarwal@broadcom.com>, capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
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I've captured this item as number 90.


  _____  

From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] 
Sent: March 23, 2006 1:08 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC


Hi All,
 
One of the recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to
tunnel 802.3 frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement was
interpreted as tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. However after talking
to various folks at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent was to tunnel
802.3 frames in the split MAC (and not local MAC).
 
Hence I would propose the following:
 
(a) Delete the tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC<->WTP for Local MAC and
replace it with (b).
(b) Add tunneling 802.3 frames between AC <-> WTP for Split MAC. Following
the notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC should be defined
(based on recommendation of the eval team) as follows. I have marked the
changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1 with * (note: section 11.1.1
remains unchanged - this proposal is an addition to and not a replacement
for section 11.1.1):
 
        Function                               Location
        -------------                               -------------
            Distribution Service                       AC
            Integration Service                       *WTP*
            Beacon Generation                       WTP
            Probe Response                           WTP
            Power Mgmt/Packet Buffering        WTP
            Fragmentation/Defragmentation      WTP
            Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc              AC
 
       802.11e
            Classifying                               AC
            Scheduling                               *WTP* (I don't
understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at AC)
            Queuing                                   WTP
 
       802.11i
            802.1X/EAP                                AC
            Key Management                        AC
            802.11 Encryption/Decryption      *WTP*
 
Thanks.
 
-Puneet
 


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUS-ASCII">


<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D346133115-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I've captured this item as number=20
90.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Puneet Agarwal=20
  [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> March 23, 2006 1:08=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Capwap] Data =

  tunneling between WTP &lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi=20
  All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One =
of the=20
  recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to tunnel =
802.3=20
  frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement was =
interpreted as=20
  tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. However after talking to =
various folks=20
  at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent was to tunnel 802.3 frames =
in the=20
  split MAC (and not local MAC).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Hence I would=20
  propose the following:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(a) =
Delete the=20
  tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC&lt;-&gt;WTP for Local MAC and =
replace it=20
  with (b).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(b) =
Add tunneling=20
  802.3 frames between AC &lt;-&gt; WTP for Split MAC. Following the =
notation in=20
  section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC should be defined (based =
on=20
  recommendation of the eval team) as follows. I have marked the =
changes wrt the=20
  draft-00's section 11.1.1 with * (note: section 11.1.1 remains =
unchanged -=20
  this proposal is an addition to and not a replacement for section=20
  11.1.1):</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
Function&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Location</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-------------&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
-------------<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Distribution=20
  =
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
  Integration=20
  =
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;*WTP*<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
  Beacon=20
  Generation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
  Probe=20
  =
Response&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Power Mgmt/Packet=20
  =
Buffering&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
Fragmentation/Defragmentation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;AC</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
802.11e<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;=20
  =
Classifying&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
  =
Scheduling&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*&nbsp;(I=20
  don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at=20
  =
AC)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
  =
Queuing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  WTP</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
802.11i<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;=20
  =
802.1X/EAP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 Key=20
  =
Management&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
  802.11=20
  =
Encryption/Decryption&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*</FONT></S=
PAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:00:14 -0700
From: Darren <dplore@gmail.com>
To: "Michael Montemurro" <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
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Regarding the evaluation draft and this item, the intent was to
recommend support for an 802.3 based user data tunnel back to the AC.=20
See the eval draft, section 9.1.3.1 for the details.  We did not
specify a breakdown of AC and WTP functions as Puneet has.

Generally I think the definition of Split MAC and Local MAC is not as
clear as it could be in the working group.  The evaluation team
recommended support of 802.3 data tunneling in Local MAC mode.  The
team's general understanding was that Local MAC was defined by where
data is converted from 802.11 frames to 802.3 frames.  But I think
it's not that simple.  :)

Whichever MAC mode we want to call this, I think (please correct me!)
that the major difference in Puneet's proposal from the evaluation
team recommendation is that the 802.11 distribution function should
remain in the AC while doing an 802.3 data tunnel from WTP to AC.

It would be good to hear what the use cases are from Puneet and any
others who want this mode.  Why do we need this mode?  I can think of
a couple reasons myself, but I am not making any hardware or software
in this area anymore.  It would be good to hear about a real need for
this mode from those who are solving real problems out there.

-Darren Loher

PS: The evaluation team recommendations are not requirements.  They
are an interpretation of how well the protocols met the objectives and
recommendations on how to meet them better.  All recommendations are
up to the working group to decide if and when they want to adopt them.

On 3/27/06, Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com> wrote:
>
>
> Puneet,
>
> One issue I see with using 802.3 frames in split-MAC mode is that the WTP
> would have to reformat every 802.11 management frame that it exchanges wi=
th
> the AC. For this reason, I think that it makes sense to use 802.11 frame
> formats in split-MAC mode.
>
> Cheers,
>
>     Mike
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
>  From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]
> Sent: March 23, 2006 1:08 AM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> One of the recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to
> tunnel 802.3 frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement wa=
s
> interpreted as tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. However after talkin=
g
> to various folks at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent was to tunnel
> 802.3 frames in the split MAC (and not local MAC).
>
> Hence I would propose the following:
>
> (a) Delete the tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC<->WTP for Local MAC a=
nd
> replace it with (b).
> (b) Add tunneling 802.3 frames between AC <-> WTP for Split MAC. Followin=
g
> the notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC should be defi=
ned
> (based on recommendation of the eval team) as follows. I have marked the
> changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1 with * (note: section 11.1.1
> remains unchanged - this proposal is an addition to and not a replacement
> for section 11.1.1):
>
>         Function                               Location
>         -------------
> -------------
>             Distribution Service                       AC
>             Integration Service                       *WTP*
>             Beacon Generation                       WTP
>             Probe Response                           WTP
>             Power Mgmt/Packet Buffering        WTP
>             Fragmentation/Defragmentation      WTP
>             Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc              AC
>
>        802.11e
>             Classifying                               AC
>             Scheduling                               *WTP*
> (I don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at AC)
>             Queuing                                   WTP
>
>        802.11i
>             802.1X/EAP                                AC
>             Key Management                        AC
>             802.11 Encryption/Decryption      *WTP*
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Puneet
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
Thread-Index: AcZOQCgaCsnrfjUjR3qI8toXSkqJjAAZk3XAAMonRfA=
From: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
	capwap@frascone.com
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Hi Pat,
=20
Sorry for the delayed response.
=20
The main reason for doing .11 Integration service (convert 802.11 <-->
802.3 frame) in the WTP is that it insulates the AC data plane from any
changes in the 802.11 (and other wireless bindings) frame format. For
many reasons, including fast roaming now (and in future inter AC
roaming), one still wants to do the .11 Distribution service at the AC
(for a single point of presence in the L2 wired network of a wireless
node) - hence the split MAC model. The proposed split insulates the
"data plane" at the AC from the vagaries of the underlying wireless
binding formats (802.11, 802.16, 802.xx) and any changes to those
formats.
=20
Wrt Mike M's comment about "802.11 management frame" - 802.11 non-data
frames (like management frames etc) are not handled by the data plane
(as they are not switched into the L2 network). Hence the CAPWAP
protocol should really provide a separate mechanism in the control
channel to carry such non-data frames unmodified to the AC if so desired
(could be a separate opcode in the control channel that is specific to
the 802.11 binding). This will go a long way in decoupling the data and
control plane in the CAPWAP protocol and provide for the architectural
longevity of the CAPWAP protocol. Moreover, it is highly likely that
other wireless MACs have their own management frames which need to be
sent to the AC control channel that do not need to be processed by the
data channel.
=20
It is my humble opinion that the CAPWAP base protocol should be designed
such that it is independent of the underlying wireless technology. When
one introduces a new wireless binding (like 802.16), we will have to
write a new control plane (and do a software upgrade) but the intent
should be able to reuse the same dataplane hardware/firmware as was
deployed for 802.11. Control plane changes are primarily a new software
load on the AC - a data plane change is much more expensive to customers
as it typically involves hardware.
=20
Thanks.
=20
-Puneet

________________________________

From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:21 AM
To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC


Puneet,
=20
Could you once more remind me why two different tunneling formats is
required in split-MAC mode?
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:08 PM
	To: capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
=09
=09
	Hi All,
	=20
	One of the recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a
mode to tunnel 802.3 frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that
requirement was interpreted as tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC.
However after talking to various folks at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the
intent was to tunnel 802.3 frames in the split MAC (and not local MAC).
	=20
	Hence I would propose the following:
	=20
	(a) Delete the tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC<->WTP for
Local MAC and replace it with (b).
	(b) Add tunneling 802.3 frames between AC <-> WTP for Split MAC.
Following the notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC
should be defined (based on recommendation of the eval team) as follows.
I have marked the changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1 with *
(note: section 11.1.1 remains unchanged - this proposal is an addition
to and not a replacement for section 11.1.1):
	=20
	        Function                               Location
	        -------------
-------------
	            Distribution Service                       AC
	            Integration Service                       *WTP*
	            Beacon Generation                       WTP
	            Probe Response                           WTP
	            Power Mgmt/Packet Buffering        WTP
	            Fragmentation/Defragmentation      WTP
	            Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc              AC
	=20
	       802.11e
	            Classifying                               AC
	            Scheduling                               *WTP* (I
don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at AC)
	            Queuing                                   WTP
	=20
	       802.11i
	            802.1X/EAP                                AC
	            Key Management                        AC
	            802.11 Encryption/Decryption      *WTP*
	=20
	Thanks.
	=20
	-Puneet
	=20


------_=_NextPart_001_01C651D5.68494652
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Pat,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Sorry for the delayed =
response.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The main reason for doing .11 Integration =
service (convert=20
802.11&nbsp;&lt;--&gt; 802.3 frame) in the WTP is that it insulates the =
AC data=20
plane from any changes in the 802.11 (and other wireless bindings) frame =
format.=20
For many reasons, including fast roaming now (and in future inter AC =
roaming),=20
one still wants to do the .11 Distribution service at the AC (for a =
single point=20
of presence in the L2 wired network of a wireless node) - hence the =
split MAC=20
model. The proposed split insulates the "data plane" at the AC from the =
vagaries=20
of the underlying wireless binding formats (802.11, 802.16, 802.xx) and =
any=20
changes to those formats.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Wrt Mike M's comment about "<FONT =
size=3D2>802.11 management=20
frame</FONT>" - 802.11 non-data frames (like management frames etc) are =
not=20
handled by the data plane (as they are not switched into the L2 =
network). Hence=20
the CAPWAP protocol should really provide a separate mechanism in the =
control=20
channel to carry such non-data frames unmodified to the AC if so desired =
(could=20
be a separate opcode in the control channel that is specific to the =
802.11=20
binding). This will go a long way in decoupling the data and control =
plane in=20
the CAPWAP protocol and provide for the architectural longevity of the =
CAPWAP=20
protocol. Moreover, it is highly likely that other wireless MACs have =
their own=20
management frames which need to be sent to the AC control channel that =
do not=20
need to be processed by the data channel.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It is my humble opinion that the CAPWAP base =
protocol=20
should be designed such that it is independent of the underlying =
wireless=20
technology. When one introduces a new wireless binding (like 802.16), we =
will=20
have to write a new control plane (and do a software upgrade) but the =
intent=20
should be able to reuse the same dataplane hardware/firmware as was =
deployed for=20
802.11. Control plane changes are primarily a new software load on the =
AC - a=20
data plane change is much more expensive to customers as it typically =
involves=20
hardware.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)=20
[mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 23, 2006 =
10:21=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
RE:=20
[Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP &lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D693272018-23032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Puneet,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D693272018-23032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D693272018-23032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Could=20
you once more remind me why two different tunneling formats is required =
in=20
split-MAC mode?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Puneet Agarwal=20
  [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 22, =
2006=20
  10:08 PM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Capwap] =
Data=20
  tunneling between WTP &lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi=20
  All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One =
of the=20
  recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to tunnel =
802.3=20
  frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement was =
interpreted as=20
  tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. However after talking to various =
folks=20
  at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent was to tunnel 802.3 frames in =
the=20
  split MAC (and not local MAC).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Hence I would=20
  propose the following:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(a) =
Delete the=20
  tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC&lt;-&gt;WTP for Local MAC and =
replace it=20
  with (b).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(b) =
Add tunneling=20
  802.3 frames between AC &lt;-&gt; WTP for Split MAC. Following the =
notation in=20
  section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC should be defined (based on =

  recommendation of the eval team) as follows. I have marked the changes =
wrt the=20
  draft-00's section 11.1.1 with * (note: section 11.1.1 remains =
unchanged -=20
  this proposal is an addition to and not a replacement for section=20
  11.1.1):</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
Function&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Location</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-------------&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
-------------<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
  Distribution=20
  =
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

  Integration=20
  =
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*=
WTP*<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
  Beacon=20
  =
Generation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;=20
  Probe=20
  =
Response&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Power Mgmt/Packet=20
  =
Buffering&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
Fragmentation/Defragmentation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;AC</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
802.11e<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
  =
Classifying&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

  =
Scheduling&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*&nbsp;(I=20
  don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at=20
  =
AC)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
  =
Queuing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  WTP</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
802.11i<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
  =
802.1X/EAP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Key=20
  =
Management&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
  802.11=20
  =
Encryption/Decryption&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*</FONT></SP=
AN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient capwap base protocol
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:02:45 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient capwap base protocol
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Scott G Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>,
	"capwap" <capwap@frascone.com>
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I believe that rushing to provide a sub-optimal protocol is not in the
best interest of the Internet community. In fact, I've been thinking
about the comment made at the IETF about perhaps not waiting for
802.11n, and get CAPWAP out the door. My recollection of the reasoning
was that we needed to address market need while it still existed.
However, I would claim that if we don't have a solution that supports
802.11n, then all vendors will still end up with proprietary solutions
by the time the CAPWAP standard is ready - as 802.11n will be mandatory
for our customers. So if interoperability is the key goal for CAPWAP,
then I propose we do it right.

More on Scott's proposals...

> - NAT traversal (IPsec working group did this as an add-on,=20
> and since not all vendors care about this, it makes sense to=20
> consider that approach here)

Plenty of protocols are NAT-able, and my belief is that we are chasing a
problem that doesn't need to be. The protocol, as it stands, already is
NAT'ed in various customer deployments.

>=20
> - AC/WTP load balancing; different vendors have different=20
> approaches, and it's not clear that we should be forcing one=20
> vendor's view on everyone else.

Going back to my comment above, it's all about interoperability. If we
can to design a protocol that scales, then this feature is required.

> - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a=20
> different endpoint than the control channel; this has=20
> definite security implications, and probably requires a=20
> secure inter-AC protocol, in addition to its own state=20
> machine loop(s). It's a corner case that many won't care about.

Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale deployments
and the protocol supports it already.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
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Puneet,
=20
You are making assumptions about 802.16 that converting the frames to
802.3 will allow the AC to provide the normal function of an 802.16 base
station - ditto for all wireless technologies. Is this realistic?
=20
As an aside, the hardware needs to be modified to support CAPWAP frames
too...

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
	Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:34 AM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
=09
=09
	Hi Pat,
	=20
	Sorry for the delayed response.
	=20
	The main reason for doing .11 Integration service (convert
802.11 <--> 802.3 frame) in the WTP is that it insulates the AC data
plane from any changes in the 802.11 (and other wireless bindings) frame
format. For many reasons, including fast roaming now (and in future
inter AC roaming), one still wants to do the .11 Distribution service at
the AC (for a single point of presence in the L2 wired network of a
wireless node) - hence the split MAC model. The proposed split insulates
the "data plane" at the AC from the vagaries of the underlying wireless
binding formats (802.11, 802.16, 802.xx) and any changes to those
formats.
	=20
	Wrt Mike M's comment about "802.11 management frame" - 802.11
non-data frames (like management frames etc) are not handled by the data
plane (as they are not switched into the L2 network). Hence the CAPWAP
protocol should really provide a separate mechanism in the control
channel to carry such non-data frames unmodified to the AC if so desired
(could be a separate opcode in the control channel that is specific to
the 802.11 binding). This will go a long way in decoupling the data and
control plane in the CAPWAP protocol and provide for the architectural
longevity of the CAPWAP protocol. Moreover, it is highly likely that
other wireless MACs have their own management frames which need to be
sent to the AC control channel that do not need to be processed by the
data channel.
	=20
	It is my humble opinion that the CAPWAP base protocol should be
designed such that it is independent of the underlying wireless
technology. When one introduces a new wireless binding (like 802.16), we
will have to write a new control plane (and do a software upgrade) but
the intent should be able to reuse the same dataplane hardware/firmware
as was deployed for 802.11. Control plane changes are primarily a new
software load on the AC - a data plane change is much more expensive to
customers as it typically involves hardware.
	=20
	Thanks.
	=20
	-Puneet

________________________________

	From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
	Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:21 AM
	To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
=09
=09
	Puneet,
	=20
	Could you once more remind me why two different tunneling
formats is required in split-MAC mode?
	=20

	Pat Calhoun
	CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
	Cisco Systems

	=20


________________________________

		From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
		Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:08 PM
		To: capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
	=09
	=09
		Hi All,
		=20
		One of the recommendations of the evaluation team was to
have a mode to tunnel 802.3 frames between WTP and AC. It seems that
that requirement was interpreted as tunneling 802.3 frames for local
MAC. However after talking to various folks at IETF 65 (dallas), it
seems the intent was to tunnel 802.3 frames in the split MAC (and not
local MAC).
		=20
		Hence I would propose the following:
		=20
		(a) Delete the tunneling of 802.3 frames between
AC<->WTP for Local MAC and replace it with (b).
		(b) Add tunneling 802.3 frames between AC <-> WTP for
Split MAC. Following the notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of
Split MAC should be defined (based on recommendation of the eval team)
as follows. I have marked the changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1
with * (note: section 11.1.1 remains unchanged - this proposal is an
addition to and not a replacement for section 11.1.1):
		=20
		        Function                               Location
		        -------------
-------------
		            Distribution Service
AC
		            Integration Service
*WTP*
		            Beacon Generation                       WTP
		            Probe Response                           WTP
		            Power Mgmt/Packet Buffering        WTP
		            Fragmentation/Defragmentation      WTP
		            Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc              AC
		=20
		       802.11e
		            Classifying                               AC
		            Scheduling
*WTP* (I don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at
AC)
		            Queuing
WTP
		=20
		       802.11i
		            802.1X/EAP                                AC
		            Key Management                        AC
		            802.11 Encryption/Decryption      *WTP*
		=20
		Thanks.
		=20
		-Puneet
		=20


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<DIV><SPAN class=3D751222422-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Puneet,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D751222422-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D751222422-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>You=20
are making assumptions about 802.16 that converting the frames to 802.3 =
will=20
allow the AC to provide the normal function of an 802.16 base station - =
ditto=20
for all wireless technologies. Is this realistic?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D751222422-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D751222422-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>As an=20
aside, the hardware needs to be modified to support CAPWAP frames=20
too...</FONT></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Puneet Agarwal=20
  [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 27, 2006 =
11:34=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling =
between WTP=20
  &lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Pat,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Sorry for the delayed =
response.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The main reason for doing .11 Integration =
service=20
  (convert 802.11&nbsp;&lt;--&gt; 802.3 frame) in the WTP is that it =
insulates=20
  the AC data plane from any changes in the 802.11 (and other wireless =
bindings)=20
  frame format. For many reasons, including fast roaming now (and in =
future=20
  inter AC roaming), one still wants to do the .11 Distribution service =
at the=20
  AC (for a single point of presence in the L2 wired network of a =
wireless node)=20
  - hence the split MAC model. The proposed split insulates the "data =
plane" at=20
  the AC from the vagaries of the underlying wireless binding formats =
(802.11,=20
  802.16, 802.xx) and any changes to those formats.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Wrt Mike M's comment about "<FONT =
size=3D2>802.11=20
  management frame</FONT>" - 802.11 non-data frames (like management =
frames etc)=20
  are not handled by the data plane (as they are not switched into the =
L2=20
  network). Hence the CAPWAP protocol should really provide a separate =
mechanism=20
  in the control channel to carry such non-data frames unmodified to the =
AC if=20
  so desired (could be a separate opcode in the control channel that is =
specific=20
  to the 802.11 binding). This will go a long way in decoupling the data =
and=20
  control plane in the CAPWAP protocol and provide for the architectural =

  longevity of the CAPWAP protocol. Moreover, it is highly likely that =
other=20
  wireless MACs have their own management frames which need to be sent =
to the AC=20
  control channel that do not need to be processed by the data=20
  channel.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT=20
  face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It is my humble opinion that the CAPWAP base =
protocol=20
  should be designed such that it is independent of the underlying =
wireless=20
  technology. When one introduces a new wireless binding (like 802.16), =
we will=20
  have to write a new control plane (and do a software upgrade) but the =
intent=20
  should be able to reuse the same dataplane hardware/firmware as was =
deployed=20
  for 802.11. Control plane changes are primarily a new software load on =
the AC=20
  - a data plane change is much more expensive to customers as it =
typically=20
  involves hardware.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)=20
  [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 23, 2006 =
10:21=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Puneet Agarwal; =
capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
  [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP &lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D693272018-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Puneet,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D693272018-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D693272018-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Could you once more remind me why two different tunneling =
formats is=20
  required in split-MAC mode?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
  <P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
  Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
    <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Puneet Agarwal=20
    [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 22, =
2006=20
    10:08 PM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Capwap] Data=20
    tunneling between WTP &lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi =

    All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>One of the=20
    recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to tunnel =
802.3=20
    frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement was =
interpreted as=20
    tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. However after talking to =
various folks=20
    at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent was to tunnel 802.3 frames =
in the=20
    split MAC (and not local MAC).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Hence I would=20
    propose the following:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>(a) Delete the=20
    tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC&lt;-&gt;WTP for Local MAC and =
replace=20
    it with (b).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>(b) Add=20
    tunneling 802.3 frames between AC &lt;-&gt; WTP for Split MAC. =
Following the=20
    notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC should be =
defined=20
    (based on recommendation of the eval team) as follows. I have marked =
the=20
    changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1 with * (note: section =
11.1.1=20
    remains unchanged - this proposal is an addition to and not a =
replacement=20
    for section 11.1.1):</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
Function&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    Location</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-------------&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
-------------<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
    Distribution=20
    =
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

    Integration=20
    =
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*=
WTP*<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
    Beacon=20
    =
Generation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;=20
    Probe=20
    =
Response&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    Power Mgmt/Packet=20
    =
Buffering&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
Fragmentation/Defragmentation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;AC</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
802.11e<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
    =
Classifying&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

    =
Scheduling&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*&nbsp;(I=20
    don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at=20
    =
AC)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
    =
Queuing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    WTP</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
802.11i<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
    =
802.1X/EAP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Key=20
    =
Management&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
    802.11=20
    =
Encryption/Decryption&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*</FONT></SP=
AN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Looking just at the a/b/g vs a/b/g/n question:
We know the a/b/g impacts on the CAPWAP protocol now. The unknown is when
will we know the .11n
impacts. July06? Jan 07? Sept 07 (.11n ratification)?  If .11n impacts are
not known until Sept 07, I
would definitiely support getting a "sub-optimal" protocol out, as we would
learn alot from the
intial deployments and implementation, and subsequent CAPWAP  .11n protocol
work could track the .11n ratification work.

One way to get resolution on the a/b/g vs a/b/g/n support question is to
answer the following questions
- What is the scope of changes to the CAPWAP protocol to support  .11n. Is
it just a few radio type changes?
Fundamental control protocol changes?
- When could we have changes needed for .11n integrated into the CAPWAP
protocol?
- Agree on a timeframe when it would be in/out. If our goal is completion i=
s
July-September 06, we would need
to have the scope and most changes identified by say end June 06.

Do we need a sub-team/set of volunteers to go and look at this, and report
back? It sounds like we need to do some (home)work to be able to make an
informed
data-driven decision.

Dorothy Stanley



On 3/27/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> I believe that rushing to provide a sub-optimal protocol is not in the
> best interest of the Internet community. In fact, I've been thinking
> about the comment made at the IETF about perhaps not waiting for
> 802.11n, and get CAPWAP out the door. My recollection of the reasoning
> was that we needed to address market need while it still existed.
> However, I would claim that if we don't have a solution that supports
> 802.11n, then all vendors will still end up with proprietary solutions
> by the time the CAPWAP standard is ready - as 802.11n will be mandatory
> for our customers. So if interoperability is the key goal for CAPWAP,
> then I propose we do it right.
>
> More on Scott's proposals...
>
> > - NAT traversal (IPsec working group did this as an add-on,
> > and since not all vendors care about this, it makes sense to
> > consider that approach here)
>
> Plenty of protocols are NAT-able, and my belief is that we are chasing a
> problem that doesn't need to be. The protocol, as it stands, already is
> NAT'ed in various customer deployments.
>
> >
> > - AC/WTP load balancing; different vendors have different
> > approaches, and it's not clear that we should be forcing one
> > vendor's view on everyone else.
>
> Going back to my comment above, it's all about interoperability. If we
> can to design a protocol that scales, then this feature is required.
>
> > - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a
> > different endpoint than the control channel; this has
> > definite security implications, and probably requires a
> > secure inter-AC protocol, in addition to its own state
> > machine loop(s). It's a corner case that many won't care about.
>
> Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale deployments
> and the protocol supports it already.
>
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>

------=_Part_11309_9240527.1143499591387
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Looking just at the a/b/g vs a/b/g/n question:</div>
<div>We know the a/b/g impacts on the CAPWAP protocol now. The unknown is w=
hen will we know the .11n</div>
<div>impacts. July06? Jan 07? Sept 07 (.11n ratification)?&nbsp; If .11n im=
pacts are not known until Sept 07, I</div>
<div>would definitiely support getting a &quot;sub-optimal&quot; protocol o=
ut, as we would learn alot from the</div>
<div>intial deployments and implementation, and subsequent CAPWAP&nbsp; .11=
n protocol work could track the .11n ratification work. </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>One way to&nbsp;get resolution on the a/b/g vs a/b/g/n support questio=
n is to answer the following questions</div>
<div>- What&nbsp;is the scope of&nbsp;changes to the CAPWAP protocol to sup=
port&nbsp; .11n. Is it just a few radio type changes?</div>
<div>Fundamental control protocol changes?</div>
<div>- When could we have changes needed for .11n integrated into the CAPWA=
P protocol? </div>
<div>- Agree on a timeframe when it would be in/out. If our goal is complet=
ion is July-September 06, we would need</div>
<div>to have the scope and most changes identified by say end June 06.</div=
>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Do we need a sub-team/set of volunteers to=20
<div>go and look at this, and report back? It sounds like we need to do som=
e (home)work to be able to make an informed</div>
<div>data-driven decision.</div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Dorothy Stanley</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 3/27/06, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">=
Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com">pcalho=
un@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">I believe that rushing to provid=
e a sub-optimal protocol is not in the<br>best interest of the Internet com=
munity. In fact, I've been thinking
<br>about the comment made at the IETF about perhaps not waiting for<br>802=
.11n, and get CAPWAP out the door. My recollection of the reasoning<br>was =
that we needed to address market need while it still existed.<br>However, I=
 would claim that if we don't have a solution that supports
<br>802.11n, then all vendors will still end up with proprietary solutions<=
br>by the time the CAPWAP standard is ready - as 802.11n will be mandatory<=
br>for our customers. So if interoperability is the key goal for CAPWAP,
<br>then I propose we do it right.<br><br>More on Scott's proposals...<br><=
br>&gt; - NAT traversal (IPsec working group did this as an add-on,<br>&gt;=
 and since not all vendors care about this, it makes sense to<br>&gt; consi=
der that approach here)
<br><br>Plenty of protocols are NAT-able, and my belief is that we are chas=
ing a<br>problem that doesn't need to be. The protocol, as it stands, alrea=
dy is<br>NAT'ed in various customer deployments.<br><br>&gt;<br>&gt; - AC/W=
TP load balancing; different vendors have different
<br>&gt; approaches, and it's not clear that we should be forcing one<br>&g=
t; vendor's view on everyone else.<br><br>Going back to my comment above, i=
t's all about interoperability. If we<br>can to design a protocol that scal=
es, then this feature is required.
<br><br>&gt; - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a<br>&gt; =
different endpoint than the control channel; this has<br>&gt; definite secu=
rity implications, and probably requires a<br>&gt; secure inter-AC protocol=
, in addition to its own state
<br>&gt; machine loop(s). It's a corner case that many won't care about.<br=
><br>Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale deployment=
s<br>and the protocol supports it already.<br><br>Pat Calhoun<br>CTO, Wirel=
ess Networking Business Unit
<br>Cisco Systems<br>______________________________________________________=
___________<br>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please v=
isit:<br><a href=3D"http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap">http=
://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
</a><br><br>Archives: <a href=3D"http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap=
">http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap</a><br></blockquote></div><br>

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_________________________________________________________________
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To: "Dorothy Stanley" <dstanley1389@gmail.com>
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Well, for instance, 802.11n supports MPDU aggregation, which
fundamentally changes the format of the user frames, and their length.
Further, the question of how many receivers/transmitters for MIMO
support needs to be factored in.
=20
I'm not a fan of moving forward. Doing so will produce a protocol that
will have limited market traction - or worse, one where each vendor
implements a bunch of vendor proprietary extensions in order to meet
market demand. I'd much prefer to come out the gate with a protocol that
satisfies the known market requirements.
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Dorothy Stanley [mailto:dstanley1389@gmail.com]=20
	Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:47 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
	Cc: Scott G Kelly; capwap
	Subject: Re: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient capwap base
protocol
=09
=09
	=20
	Looking just at the a/b/g vs a/b/g/n question:
	We know the a/b/g impacts on the CAPWAP protocol now. The
unknown is when will we know the .11n
	impacts. July06? Jan 07? Sept 07 (.11n ratification)?  If .11n
impacts are not known until Sept 07, I
	would definitiely support getting a "sub-optimal" protocol out,
as we would learn alot from the
	intial deployments and implementation, and subsequent CAPWAP
.11n protocol work could track the .11n ratification work.=20
	=20
	One way to get resolution on the a/b/g vs a/b/g/n support
question is to answer the following questions
	- What is the scope of changes to the CAPWAP protocol to support
.11n. Is it just a few radio type changes?
	Fundamental control protocol changes?
	- When could we have changes needed for .11n integrated into the
CAPWAP protocol?=20
	- Agree on a timeframe when it would be in/out. If our goal is
completion is July-September 06, we would need
	to have the scope and most changes identified by say end June
06.
	=20
	Do we need a sub-team/set of volunteers to=20
	go and look at this, and report back? It sounds like we need to
do some (home)work to be able to make an informed
	data-driven decision.
	=20
	Dorothy Stanley
	=20

	=20
	On 3/27/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:=20

		I believe that rushing to provide a sub-optimal protocol
is not in the
		best interest of the Internet community. In fact, I've
been thinking=20
		about the comment made at the IETF about perhaps not
waiting for
		802.11n, and get CAPWAP out the door. My recollection of
the reasoning
		was that we needed to address market need while it still
existed.
		However, I would claim that if we don't have a solution
that supports=20
		802.11n, then all vendors will still end up with
proprietary solutions
		by the time the CAPWAP standard is ready - as 802.11n
will be mandatory
		for our customers. So if interoperability is the key
goal for CAPWAP,=20
		then I propose we do it right.
	=09
		More on Scott's proposals...
	=09
		> - NAT traversal (IPsec working group did this as an
add-on,
		> and since not all vendors care about this, it makes
sense to
		> consider that approach here)=20
	=09
		Plenty of protocols are NAT-able, and my belief is that
we are chasing a
		problem that doesn't need to be. The protocol, as it
stands, already is
		NAT'ed in various customer deployments.
	=09
		>
		> - AC/WTP load balancing; different vendors have
different=20
		> approaches, and it's not clear that we should be
forcing one
		> vendor's view on everyone else.
	=09
		Going back to my comment above, it's all about
interoperability. If we
		can to design a protocol that scales, then this feature
is required.=20
	=09
		> - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a
		> different endpoint than the control channel; this has
		> definite security implications, and probably requires
a
		> secure inter-AC protocol, in addition to its own state

		> machine loop(s). It's a corner case that many won't
care about.
	=09
		Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large
scale deployments
		and the protocol supports it already.
	=09
		Pat Calhoun
		CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit=20
		Cisco Systems
=09
_________________________________________________________________
		To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options,
please visit:
		http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap=20
	=09
		Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
	=09



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	charset="us-ascii"
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charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D474025522-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Well,=20
for instance, 802.11n supports MPDU aggregation, which fundamentally =
changes the=20
format of the user frames, and their length. Further, the question of =
how many=20
receivers/transmitters for MIMO support needs to be factored=20
in.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D474025522-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D474025522-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I'm=20
not a fan of moving forward. Doing so will produce a protocol that will =
have=20
limited market traction - or worse, one where each vendor implements a =
bunch of=20
vendor proprietary extensions in order to meet market demand. I'd much =
prefer to=20
come out the gate with a protocol that satisfies the known market=20
requirements.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Dorothy Stanley=20
  [mailto:dstanley1389@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 27, =
2006 2:47=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)<BR><B>Cc:</B> Scott G Kelly;=20
  capwap<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient =
capwap base=20
  protocol<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Looking just at the a/b/g vs a/b/g/n question:</DIV>
  <DIV>We know the a/b/g impacts on the CAPWAP protocol now. The unknown =
is when=20
  will we know the .11n</DIV>
  <DIV>impacts. July06? Jan 07? Sept 07 (.11n ratification)?&nbsp; If =
.11n=20
  impacts are not known until Sept 07, I</DIV>
  <DIV>would definitiely support getting a "sub-optimal" protocol out, =
as we=20
  would learn alot from the</DIV>
  <DIV>intial deployments and implementation, and subsequent =
CAPWAP&nbsp; .11n=20
  protocol work could track the .11n ratification work. </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>One way to&nbsp;get resolution on the a/b/g vs a/b/g/n support =
question=20
  is to answer the following questions</DIV>
  <DIV>- What&nbsp;is the scope of&nbsp;changes to the CAPWAP protocol =
to=20
  support&nbsp; .11n. Is it just a few radio type changes?</DIV>
  <DIV>Fundamental control protocol changes?</DIV>
  <DIV>- When could we have changes needed for .11n integrated into the =
CAPWAP=20
  protocol? </DIV>
  <DIV>- Agree on a timeframe when it would be in/out. If our goal is =
completion=20
  is July-September 06, we would need</DIV>
  <DIV>to have the scope and most changes identified by say end June =
06.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Do we need a sub-team/set of volunteers to=20
  <DIV>go and look at this, and report back? It sounds like we need to =
do some=20
  (home)work to be able to make an informed</DIV>
  <DIV>data-driven decision.</DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Dorothy Stanley</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail_quote>On 3/27/06, <B =
class=3Dgmail_sendername>Pat Calhoun=20
  (pacalhou)</B> &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com">pcalhoun@cisco.com</A>&gt; =
wrote:</SPAN>=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ccc 1px solid">I=20
    believe that rushing to provide a sub-optimal protocol is not in =
the<BR>best=20
    interest of the Internet community. In fact, I've been thinking =
<BR>about=20
    the comment made at the IETF about perhaps not waiting =
for<BR>802.11n, and=20
    get CAPWAP out the door. My recollection of the reasoning<BR>was =
that we=20
    needed to address market need while it still existed.<BR>However, I =
would=20
    claim that if we don't have a solution that supports <BR>802.11n, =
then all=20
    vendors will still end up with proprietary solutions<BR>by the time =
the=20
    CAPWAP standard is ready - as 802.11n will be mandatory<BR>for our=20
    customers. So if interoperability is the key goal for CAPWAP, =
<BR>then I=20
    propose we do it right.<BR><BR>More on Scott's =
proposals...<BR><BR>&gt; -=20
    NAT traversal (IPsec working group did this as an add-on,<BR>&gt; =
and since=20
    not all vendors care about this, it makes sense to<BR>&gt; consider =
that=20
    approach here) <BR><BR>Plenty of protocols are NAT-able, and my =
belief is=20
    that we are chasing a<BR>problem that doesn't need to be. The =
protocol, as=20
    it stands, already is<BR>NAT'ed in various customer=20
    deployments.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; - AC/WTP load balancing; different =
vendors=20
    have different <BR>&gt; approaches, and it's not clear that we =
should be=20
    forcing one<BR>&gt; vendor's view on everyone else.<BR><BR>Going =
back to my=20
    comment above, it's all about interoperability. If we<BR>can to =
design a=20
    protocol that scales, then this feature is required. <BR><BR>&gt; - =
split=20
    tunneling, where data channel terminates on a<BR>&gt; different =
endpoint=20
    than the control channel; this has<BR>&gt; definite security =
implications,=20
    and probably requires a<BR>&gt; secure inter-AC protocol, in =
addition to its=20
    own state <BR>&gt; machine loop(s). It's a corner case that many =
won't care=20
    about.<BR><BR>Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large =
scale=20
    deployments<BR>and the protocol supports it already.<BR><BR>Pat=20
    Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit <BR>Cisco=20
    =
Systems<BR>______________________________________________________________=
___<BR>To=20
    unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:<BR><A =

    =
href=3D"http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap">http://lists.f=
rascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap=20
    </A><BR><BR>Archives: <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap">http://lists.frascone=
.com/pipermail/capwap</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY><=
/HTML>

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Comments inline below...

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
>Sent: Mar 27, 2006 2:02 PM
>To: Scott G Kelly <scott@hyperthought.com>, capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
>Subject: RE: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient capwap base protocol
>
>I believe that rushing to provide a sub-optimal protocol is not in the
>best interest of the Internet community. 

I don't think anyone suggested rushing to provide a sub-optimal protocol, but I think all vendors save the incumbent have a strong interest in getting something interoperable out there expeditiously. Delaying deployment of useful and interoperable implementations in the interest of designing a massive everything-plus-the-kitchen-sink monolith does nothing to benefit the Internet community.

> In fact, I've been thinking
>about the comment made at the IETF about perhaps not waiting for
>802.11n, and get CAPWAP out the door. My recollection of the reasoning
>was that we needed to address market need while it still existed.
>However, I would claim that if we don't have a solution that supports
>802.11n, then all vendors will still end up with proprietary solutions
>by the time the CAPWAP standard is ready - as 802.11n will be mandatory
>for our customers. So if interoperability is the key goal for CAPWAP,
>then I propose we do it right.

With a well-designed (read: extensible) base protocol, why can't 11n functionality be modularly added? Why must it be in the base spec?


>More on Scott's proposals...
>
>> - NAT traversal (IPsec working group did this as an add-on, 
>>  and since not all vendors care about this, it makes sense to 
>> consider that approach here)
>
>Plenty of protocols are NAT-able, and my belief is that we are chasing a
>problem that doesn't need to be. The protocol, as it stands, already is
>NAT'ed in various customer deployments.

Historically, new _tunneling_ protocols are not NAT-able until either the protocols are somehow extended or the market reaches a critical mass, and middlebox vendors are forced by their customers to accommodate the protocols.

LWAPP, as it stands, already runs over one port with a MUX header. This, in conjunction with the built-in heartbeat (echo request/reply), suggests that it should work as-is in some simple NAT scenarios. However, the IPsec group dedicated 2 RFCs to this problem, suggesting that it is not really all that simple. Still, if you could share the details of the scenarios in which it *is* currently working, that might help to clarify how much remains to be done. If we are willing to stick with one channel and a mux header, maybe we can deal with simple nat-t in the base spec, and worry about more complex scenarios in follow-on work.

>> - AC/WTP load balancing; different vendors have different 
>> approaches, and it's not clear that we should be forcing one 
>> vendor's view on everyone else.
>
>Going back to my comment above, it's all about interoperability. If we
>can to design a protocol that scales, then this feature is required.

I don't disagree that we can design such a protocol, given enough time, but load balancing is a complex topic, and getting everyone to agree on the details may take significant discussion. The point wasn't that load balancing is not a worthy objective, the point was that there are short-term ways to resolve it without complicating the base protocol. 

For example, I would argue that the controller, not the wtp, should make such decisions, and it could do so by simply not responding to a discover request (or the JOIN which follows, if you prefer) when it is too busy to be bothered. After all, it is the _controller_, is it not? This does not require any special protocol elements, and is arguably sufficient for a base protocol. More complex approaches can be layered on top of this, and need not delay advancement of the base protocol.

>> - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a
>> different endpoint than the control channel; this has 
>> definite security implications, and probably requires a
>> secure inter-AC protocol, in addition to its own state 
>> machine loop(s). It's a corner case that many won't care about.
>
>Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale deployments
>and the protocol supports it already.

By what rationale is this mandatory? In any event,  this implies a (secure) inter-AC protocol, which is not currently in scope, and is not currently specified. If this functionality is truly mandatory, we need to expand our wg charter to include secure inter-AC communications.

Scott

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	base protocol
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From: <Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com>
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Mani and I did have a chance to talk to the ADs briefly last week about
the milestone dates.  Their concerns are based on meeting the market
need for CAPWAP before it becomes obsolete. =20

Can we have the WG weigh in on the mailing list as to how urgent the
need is to release the CAPWAP protocol to meet the market's
expectations?  =20

Thanks,
Dorothy=20


-----Original Message-----
From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:03 PM
To: Scott G Kelly; capwap
Subject: RE: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient capwap base protocol

I believe that rushing to provide a sub-optimal protocol is not in the
best interest of the Internet community. In fact, I've been thinking
about the comment made at the IETF about perhaps not waiting for
802.11n, and get CAPWAP out the door. My recollection of the reasoning
was that we needed to address market need while it still existed.
However, I would claim that if we don't have a solution that supports
802.11n, then all vendors will still end up with proprietary solutions
by the time the CAPWAP standard is ready - as 802.11n will be mandatory
for our customers. So if interoperability is the key goal for CAPWAP,
then I propose we do it right.

More on Scott's proposals...

> - NAT traversal (IPsec working group did this as an add-on, and since=20
> not all vendors care about this, it makes sense to consider that=20
> approach here)

Plenty of protocols are NAT-able, and my belief is that we are chasing a
problem that doesn't need to be. The protocol, as it stands, already is
NAT'ed in various customer deployments.

>=20
> - AC/WTP load balancing; different vendors have different approaches,=20
> and it's not clear that we should be forcing one vendor's view on=20
> everyone else.

Going back to my comment above, it's all about interoperability. If we
can to design a protocol that scales, then this feature is required.

> - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a different=20
> endpoint than the control channel; this has definite security=20
> implications, and probably requires a secure inter-AC protocol, in=20
> addition to its own state machine loop(s). It's a corner case that=20
> many won't care about.

Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale deployments
and the protocol supports it already.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
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From: "Dorothy Stanley" <dstanley1389@gmail.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient capwap base protocol
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Comments inline...

On 3/27/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>  Well, for instance, 802.11n supports MPDU aggregation, which
> fundamentally changes the format of the user frames, and their length.
> Further, the question of how many receivers/transmitters for MIMO support
> needs to be factored in.
>

Agreed, these 2 and likely more - It's this detail that we need to get a
handle on, and determine when the
support can be integrated into the CAPWAP protocol. Depending on when we ca=
n
complete the
integration, we decide that it's in or out.


> I'm not a fan of moving forward. Doing so will produce a protocol that
> will have limited market traction - or worse, one where each vendor
> implements a bunch of vendor proprietary extensions in order to meet mark=
et
> demand. I'd much prefer to come out the gate with a protocol that satisfi=
es
> the known market requirements.
>
>

The knowm market requirements are a moving, growing target. If we wait to
include them all, we'll
never release a version of the CAPWAP protocol. So we as a WG have to make
some hard decisions and tradeoffs, to meet
enough of the market requirements to provide value, and then have a roadmap
for meeting additional requirements.


 Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Dorothy Stanley [mailto:dstanley1389@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2006 2:47 PM
> *To:* Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> *Cc:* Scott G Kelly; capwap
> *Subject:* Re: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient capwap base protocol
>
>
>
>
> Looking just at the a/b/g vs a/b/g/n question:
> We know the a/b/g impacts on the CAPWAP protocol now. The unknown is when
> will we know the .11n
> impacts. July06? Jan 07? Sept 07 (.11n ratification)?  If .11n impacts ar=
e
> not known until Sept 07, I
> would definitiely support getting a "sub-optimal" protocol out, as we
> would learn alot from the
> intial deployments and implementation, and subsequent CAPWAP  .11n
> protocol work could track the .11n ratification work.
>
> One way to get resolution on the a/b/g vs a/b/g/n support question is to
> answer the following questions
> - What is the scope of changes to the CAPWAP protocol to support  .11n. I=
s
> it just a few radio type changes?
> Fundamental control protocol changes?
> - When could we have changes needed for .11n integrated into the CAPWAP
> protocol?
> - Agree on a timeframe when it would be in/out. If our goal is completion
> is July-September 06, we would need
> to have the scope and most changes identified by say end June 06.
>
> Do we need a sub-team/set of volunteers to go and look at this, and repor=
t
> back? It sounds like we need to do some (home)work to be able to make an
> informed
> data-driven decision.
>
> Dorothy Stanley
>
>
>
> On 3/27/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:
> >
> > I believe that rushing to provide a sub-optimal protocol is not in the
> > best interest of the Internet community. In fact, I've been thinking
> > about the comment made at the IETF about perhaps not waiting for
> > 802.11n, and get CAPWAP out the door. My recollection of the reasoning
> > was that we needed to address market need while it still existed.
> > However, I would claim that if we don't have a solution that supports
> > 802.11n, then all vendors will still end up with proprietary solutions
> > by the time the CAPWAP standard is ready - as 802.11n will be mandatory
> > for our customers. So if interoperability is the key goal for CAPWAP,
> > then I propose we do it right.
> >
> > More on Scott's proposals...
> >
> > > - NAT traversal (IPsec working group did this as an add-on,
> > > and since not all vendors care about this, it makes sense to
> > > consider that approach here)
> >
> > Plenty of protocols are NAT-able, and my belief is that we are chasing =
a
> > problem that doesn't need to be. The protocol, as it stands, already is
> > NAT'ed in various customer deployments.
> >
> > >
> > > - AC/WTP load balancing; different vendors have different
> > > approaches, and it's not clear that we should be forcing one
> > > vendor's view on everyone else.
> >
> > Going back to my comment above, it's all about interoperability. If we
> > can to design a protocol that scales, then this feature is required.
> >
> > > - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a
> > > different endpoint than the control channel; this has
> > > definite security implications, and probably requires a
> > > secure inter-AC protocol, in addition to its own state
> > > machine loop(s). It's a corner case that many won't care about.
> >
> > Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale deployments
> > and the protocol supports it already.
> >
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> > Cisco Systems
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
>
>

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Comments inline...<br><br>
<div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 3/27/06, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">=
Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com">pcalho=
un@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr">
<div><span><font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Well, for inst=
ance, 802.11n supports MPDU aggregation, which fundamentally changes the fo=
rmat of the user frames, and their length. Further, the question of how man=
y receivers/transmitters for MIMO support needs to be factored in.
</font></span></div></div></blockquote>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Agreed, these 2 and likely more - It's this detail that we need to get=
 a handle on, and determine when the</div>
<div>support can be integrated into the CAPWAP protocol.&nbsp;Depending on =
when we can complete the</div>
<div>integration, we decide that it's in or out.</div><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr">
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">I'm not a fan =
of moving forward. Doing so will produce a protocol that will have limited =
market traction - or worse, one where each vendor implements a bunch of ven=
dor proprietary extensions in order to meet market demand. I'd much prefer =
to come out the gate with a protocol that satisfies the known market requir=
ements.
</font></span></div></div>
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr"><span class=3D"q">
<div>&nbsp;</div></span></div></blockquote>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>The knowm market requirements are a moving, growing&nbsp;target. If we=
 wait to include them all, we'll</div>
<div>never release a version of the CAPWAP protocol. So we as a WG have to =
make some hard decisions and tradeoffs, to meet</div>
<div>enough of the market requirements to provide value, and then have a ro=
admap for meeting additional requirements.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr"><span class=3D"q">
<p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2">Pat Calhoun<br>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business Unit<br>Cisco Systems</font></p>
<div>&nbsp;</div><br></span></div>
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr">
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000=
0ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div lang=3D"en-us" dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left">
<hr>
<font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> Dorothy Stanley [mailto:<a on=
click=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href=3D"mailto:dstan=
ley1389@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dstanley1389@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sen=
t:</b>
 Monday, March 27, 2006 2:47 PM<br><b>To:</b> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)<br><b>=
Cc:</b> Scott G Kelly; capwap<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Capwap] a necessary a=
nd sufficient capwap base protocol<br></font><br>&nbsp;</div></blockquote><=
/div>

<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr"><span class=3D"q" id=3D"q_10a3decf515884ff_3"=
>
<div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Looking just at the a/b/g vs a/b/g/n question:</div>
<div>We know the a/b/g impacts on the CAPWAP protocol now. The unknown is w=
hen will we know the .11n</div>
<div>impacts. July06? Jan 07? Sept 07 (.11n ratification)?&nbsp; If .11n im=
pacts are not known until Sept 07, I</div>
<div>would definitiely support getting a &quot;sub-optimal&quot; protocol o=
ut, as we would learn alot from the</div>
<div>intial deployments and implementation, and subsequent CAPWAP&nbsp; .11=
n protocol work could track the .11n ratification work. </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>One way to&nbsp;get resolution on the a/b/g vs a/b/g/n support questio=
n is to answer the following questions</div>
<div>- What&nbsp;is the scope of&nbsp;changes to the CAPWAP protocol to sup=
port&nbsp; .11n. Is it just a few radio type changes?</div>
<div>Fundamental control protocol changes?</div>
<div>- When could we have changes needed for .11n integrated into the CAPWA=
P protocol? </div>
<div>- Agree on a timeframe when it would be in/out. If our goal is complet=
ion is July-September 06, we would need</div>
<div>to have the scope and most changes identified by say end June 06.</div=
>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Do we need a sub-team/set of volunteers to=20
<div>go and look at this, and report back? It sounds like we need to do som=
e (home)work to be able to make an informed</div>
<div>data-driven decision.</div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Dorothy Stanley</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 3/27/06, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">=
Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)</b> &lt;<a onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(wind=
ow,event,this)" href=3D"mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">pcalho=
un@cisco.com
</a>&gt; wrote:</span>=20
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">I believe that rushing to provid=
e a sub-optimal protocol is not in the<br>best interest of the Internet com=
munity. In fact, I've been thinking=20
<br>about the comment made at the IETF about perhaps not waiting for<br>802=
.11n, and get CAPWAP out the door. My recollection of the reasoning<br>was =
that we needed to address market need while it still existed.<br>However, I=
 would claim that if we don't have a solution that supports=20
<br>802.11n, then all vendors will still end up with proprietary solutions<=
br>by the time the CAPWAP standard is ready - as 802.11n will be mandatory<=
br>for our customers. So if interoperability is the key goal for CAPWAP,=20
<br>then I propose we do it right.<br><br>More on Scott's proposals...<br><=
br>&gt; - NAT traversal (IPsec working group did this as an add-on,<br>&gt;=
 and since not all vendors care about this, it makes sense to<br>&gt; consi=
der that approach here)=20
<br><br>Plenty of protocols are NAT-able, and my belief is that we are chas=
ing a<br>problem that doesn't need to be. The protocol, as it stands, alrea=
dy is<br>NAT'ed in various customer deployments.<br><br>&gt;<br>&gt; - AC/W=
TP load balancing; different vendors have different=20
<br>&gt; approaches, and it's not clear that we should be forcing one<br>&g=
t; vendor's view on everyone else.<br><br>Going back to my comment above, i=
t's all about interoperability. If we<br>can to design a protocol that scal=
es, then this feature is required.=20
<br><br>&gt; - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a<br>&gt; =
different endpoint than the control channel; this has<br>&gt; definite secu=
rity implications, and probably requires a<br>&gt; secure inter-AC protocol=
, in addition to its own state=20
<br>&gt; machine loop(s). It's a corner case that many won't care about.<br=
><br>Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale deployment=
s<br>and the protocol supports it already.<br><br>Pat Calhoun<br>CTO, Wirel=
ess Networking Business Unit=20
<br>Cisco Systems<br>______________________________________________________=
___________<br>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please v=
isit:<br><a onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href=
=3D"http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap" target=3D"_blank">
http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap </a><br><br>Archives: <a =
onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href=3D"http://lis=
ts.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.frascone.c=
om/pipermail/capwap
</a><br></blockquote></div><br></span></div>
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr">
<blockquote></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
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From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
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Puneet,

=20

Since the evaluation teams recommended in introducing a 802.3-tunnel
mode option, would it be better to have integration services performed
at AC "or" WTP?



In general, I think this is a configuration feature to be determined
during initial WTP configuration. So we can introduce the tunnel mode
option here and include text in Section 5.1.5 (WTP Frame Type) to the
effect of=20

=20

"2 - 802.3 Bridging:  802.3 Bridging requires the WTP and AC to=20

     encapsulate all user payload as native IEEE 802.3 frames (see

     Section 4.2).  This value DELETE: (MUST NOT be) REPLACE WITH: (is)
used when the MAC Type is

     set to Split-MAC."

=20

=20

Cheers,


Saravanan

=20

=20

=20

=20

________________________________

From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:08 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC

=20

Hi All,

=20

One of the recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to
tunnel 802.3 frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement
was interpreted as tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. However after
talking to various folks at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent was to
tunnel 802.3 frames in the split MAC (and not local MAC).

=20

Hence I would propose the following:

=20

(a) Delete the tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC<->WTP for Local MAC
and replace it with (b).

(b) Add tunneling 802.3 frames between AC <-> WTP for Split MAC.
Following the notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC
should be defined (based on recommendation of the eval team) as follows.
I have marked the changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1 with *
(note: section 11.1.1 remains unchanged - this proposal is an addition
to and not a replacement for section 11.1.1):

=20

        Function                               Location

        -------------                               -------------
            Distribution Service                       AC
            Integration Service                       *WTP*
            Beacon Generation                       WTP
            Probe Response                           WTP
            Power Mgmt/Packet Buffering        WTP
            Fragmentation/Defragmentation      WTP
            Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc              AC

=20

       802.11e
            Classifying                               AC
            Scheduling                               *WTP* (I don't
understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at AC)
            Queuing                                   WTP

=20

       802.11i
            802.1X/EAP                                AC
            Key Management                        AC
            802.11 Encryption/Decryption      *WTP*

=20

Thanks.

=20

-Puneet

=20


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Puneet,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Since the evaluation teams recommended in introducing =
a
802.3-tunnel mode option, would it be better to have integration =
services
performed at AC &#8220;or&#8221; WTP?<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>In general, I think this is a configuration feature =
to be
determined during initial WTP configuration. So we can introduce the =
tunnel
mode option here and include text in Section 5.1.5 (WTP Frame Type) to =
the
effect of <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&#8220;2 - 802.3 Bridging:&nbsp; 802.3 Bridging =
requires the
WTP and AC to <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;encapsulate all user payload =
as
native IEEE 802.3 frames (see<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Section 4.2).&nbsp; This =
value DELETE:
(MUST NOT be) REPLACE WITH: (is) used when the MAC Type =
is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; set to =
Split-MAC.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
Puneet Agarwal
[mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 23, =
2006
2:08 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Capwap] Data =
tunneling
between WTP &lt;-&gt;AC</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi All,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>One of the recommendations of the evaluation team was =
to
have a mode to tunnel 802.3 frames between WTP and AC. It seems that =
that
requirement was interpreted as tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. =
However
after talking to various folks at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent =
was to
tunnel 802.3 frames in the split MAC (and not local =
MAC).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hence I would propose the =
following:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>(a) Delete the tunneling of 802.3 frames between
AC&lt;-&gt;WTP for Local MAC and replace it with =
(b).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>(b) Add tunneling 802.3 frames between AC &lt;-&gt; =
WTP for
Split MAC. Following the notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of =
Split MAC
should be defined (based on recommendation of the eval team) as follows. =
I have
marked the changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1 with * (note: =
section
11.1.1 remains unchanged - this proposal is an addition to and not a
replacement for section 11.1.1):</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Function&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Location</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;------=
-------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
-------------<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Distribution
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
AC<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Integration
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*=
WTP*<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Beacon
Generation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;WTP<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Probe
Response&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Power
Mgmt/Packet =
Buffering&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Fragmentation/Defragmentation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;AC</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 802.11e<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Classifying&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
AC<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Scheduling&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*&nbsp;(I
don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at AC)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Queuing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
WTP</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 802.11i<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
802.1X/EAP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
AC<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Key
Management&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;AC<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
802.11
Encryption/Decryption&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*</span></fo=
nt><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>-Puneet</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Editorial question - Location of Message elements
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Dorothy,

=20

I think structuring all the message elements in a single section is very
useful. It helps make reading easier.=20

=20

Saravanan

=20

=20

=20

=20

________________________________

From: Dorothy Stanley [mailto:dstanley1389@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:41 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Editorial question - Location of Message elements

=20

All,

In the -00 draft, the CAPWAP message elements are defined in multiple
sections, specifically the section defining
the first message in which a particular message element appears.=20

I propose to collect all of the message element definitions in a single
section, so that there is
one place where they are all defined, and can easily be found.

Is there any objection to proceeding with this editorial change?

At the CAPWAP meeting on Monday, there seemed to be support for this
approach, with
Pat noting that he LWAPP draft at one point was organized this way, but
was then changed, due to=20
comments received. So, comments please on this proposed editorial change
to the CAPWAP  draft specification.

Thanks,

Dorothy

-----------------
Dorothy Stanley
Aruba Networks
630-363-1389 (cell) 630-836-9734 (office)


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Dorothy,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I think structuring all the message elements in a =
single
section is very useful. It helps make reading easier. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
Dorothy Stanley
[mailto:dstanley1389@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 23, =
2006
1:41 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
capwap@frascone.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Capwap] =
Editorial
question - Location of Message elements</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>All,<br>
<br>
In the -00 draft, the CAPWAP message elements are defined in multiple =
sections,
specifically the section defining<br>
the first message in which a particular message element appears. =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I =
propose to
collect all of the message element definitions in a single section, so =
that
there is<br>
one place where they are all defined, and can easily be =
found.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Is =
there any
objection to proceeding with this editorial =
change?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>At =
the CAPWAP
meeting on Monday, there seemed to be support for this approach, =
with<br>
Pat noting that he LWAPP draft at one point was organized this way, but =
was
then changed, due to <br>
comments received. So, comments please on this proposed editorial change =
to the
CAPWAP&nbsp; draft specification.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Dorothy</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-----------------</span></font><br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Dorothy =
Stanley</span></font><br>
<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Aruba</span></font></st1:place><font
size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Networks<br>
630-363-1389 (cell) 630-836-9734 (office)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</body>

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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Mon Mar 27 19:56:45 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Handover issue
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:59:57 +0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Handover issue
Thread-Index: AcZPZiHDeQr4xk2NQWOtyWAtgLOGewCnDP/w
From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
To: "Darren" <dplore@gmail.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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Hi Darren,

I like the idea of having a separate roadmap document. There are a
number of features being introduced now that deserves greater review
after the base specifications are completed.

For the time being, the group can consider using a separate tracker that
lists these newly introduced features. This will help separate them from
the more pressing immediate bugs/features of the protocol.

Cheers,

Saravanan





-----Original Message-----
From: Darren [mailto:dplore@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:13 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Cc: sarikaya@ieee.org
Subject: Re: [Capwap] Handover issue

At IETF65 I heard a couple of suggestions that a CAPWAP roadmap
document should be written.  Given the number of good ideas and
additional requirements popping up, it seems clear there is going to
be need for CAPWAP development for the next several years.

In order to have a completed capwap version 1 protocol this year, we
need to finish a specification for only the most basic features.

Extensions to the core capwap protocol version 1 can be planned and
debated as part of a roadmap document. I also strongly believe that AC
- AC communications is important, but it is out of scope for version 1
of CAPWAP and it should be a roadmap item.

-Darren Loher


On 3/23/06, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) <pcalhoun@cisco.com> wrote:
> Behcet, I believe that I claimed that 802.1X authentication works for
> both local and split MAC. In both cases, the 802.11 MAC management
> packets, and 802.1X, need to be forwarded to the AC for centralized
> authentication.
>
> Moving across ACs is out of scope for CAPWAP.
>
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 4:37 PM
> > To: capwap@frascone.com
> > Subject: Re: [Capwap] Handover issue
> >
> > Dear all,
> >   Before we forget, I wanted to wrap up the issues arising
> > from today's
> > presentation:
> > - Puneet's question on roaming, STA roaming not WTP roaming
> > is what we are trying to do
> > - France Telecom colleague's question on the relationship
> > with NEMO, NEMO and MIP try to provide the session
> > continuity, i.e. try to keep the same IP address so that the
> > sessions do not break after handover. This is not what
> > CAPWAPHP is after. We are interested in roaming support that
> > is needed to be included in the CAPWAP protocol.
> > - Pat mentioned that he was concerned on our model for Local
> > MAC roaming handling in CAPWAPHP.
> > - Pat claimed that the Split MAC solution is already in
> > CAPWAP protocol, however, of the two scenarios we have in
> > CAPWAPHP only one of them is partially covered in CAPWAP.
> >  - Pat asked on inter-AC roaming, here the roaming scenario
> > is where STA moves from a WTP in one domain, e.g. Verizon to
> > a WTP in another domain, e.g. T-Mobile.
> >   Have I missed anything?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > --behcet
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
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Well, we shouldn't consolidate ALL the message elements in one section.
I think that the elements used in the base protocol should be
consolidated in one section and those for the 802.11 binding in another.

 -Bob
 =20

=20

________________________________

From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 4:52 PM
To: Dorothy Stanley; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Editorial question - Location of Message elements



Dorothy,

=20

I think structuring all the message elements in a single section is very
useful. It helps make reading easier.=20

=20

Saravanan

=20

=20

=20

=20

________________________________

From: Dorothy Stanley [mailto:dstanley1389@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:41 AM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Editorial question - Location of Message elements

=20

All,

In the -00 draft, the CAPWAP message elements are defined in multiple
sections, specifically the section defining
the first message in which a particular message element appears.=20

I propose to collect all of the message element definitions in a single
section, so that there is
one place where they are all defined, and can easily be found.

Is there any objection to proceeding with this editorial change?

At the CAPWAP meeting on Monday, there seemed to be support for this
approach, with
Pat noting that he LWAPP draft at one point was organized this way, but
was then changed, due to=20
comments received. So, comments please on this proposed editorial change
to the CAPWAP  draft specification.

Thanks,

Dorothy

-----------------
Dorothy Stanley
Aruba Networks
630-363-1389 (cell) 630-836-9734 (office)


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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D542360201-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Well, we shouldn't consolidate ALL the message =
elements in=20
one section.&nbsp; I think that the elements used in the base protocol =
should be=20
consolidated in one section and those for the 802.11 binding in=20
another.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain =
format -->
<P><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;-Bob<BR>&nbsp;</FONT> </P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan=20
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, =
March 27,=20
2006 4:52 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Dorothy Stanley;=20
capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Capwap] Editorial question - =

Location of Message elements<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Dorothy,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think structuring all =
the message=20
elements in a single section is very useful. It helps make reading =
easier.=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
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<DIV>
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<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma"> Dorothy=20
Stanley [mailto:dstanley1389@gmail.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, March 23, 2006 =
1:41=20
AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>=20
[Capwap] Editorial question - Location of Message=20
elements</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">All,<BR><BR>In the=20
-00 draft, the CAPWAP message elements are defined in multiple sections, =

specifically the section defining<BR>the first message in which a =
particular=20
message element appears. </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I =
propose to collect=20
all of the message element definitions in a single section, so that =
there=20
is<BR>one place where they are all defined, and can easily be=20
found.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Is =
there any=20
objection to proceeding with this editorial =
change?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">At the =
CAPWAP=20
meeting on Monday, there seemed to be support for this approach, =
with<BR>Pat=20
noting that he LWAPP draft at one point was organized this way, but was =
then=20
changed, due to <BR>comments received. So, comments please on this =
proposed=20
editorial change to the CAPWAP&nbsp; draft=20
specification.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dorothy</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----------------</SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dorothy Stanley</SPAN></FONT><BR><st1:place=20
w:st=3D"on"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Aruba</SPAN></FONT></st1:place><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Networks<BR>630-363-1389 (cell) 630-836-9734=20
(office)</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:11:20 -0800
Message-ID: <8954613CA6BB3242A1531D916A527A419E3D61@NT-SJCA-0751.brcm.ad.broadcom.com>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
Thread-Index: AcZOQCgaCsnrfjUjR3qI8toXSkqJjAAZk3XAAMonRfAAB4fwUAAEbJMw
From: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
	capwap@frascone.com
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Hi Pat,
=20
It is hard for me to conjecture how realistic this goal is as it is
difficult for me to speculate how the various protocols (.11, .16 etc)
are going to evolve. All I can do is point to past architectural
frameworks within IETF that were application neutral and led to and
explosion (in a manner of speaking) of applications after the base
protocol data path was defined - the most recent one that comes to mind
is MPLS. The base architecture of MPLS was application neutral and this
led to many variants like RSVP-TE LSPs, L2 VPNs, L3VPN etc. Each of
these applications had a different control plane protocol variant (RSVP,
LDP, BGP) but the same/similar data plane processing for most part. This
is not an apples to apples comparison with wireless but just an
illustration to substantiate my point.
=20
I believe that the CAPWAP working group is in a unique position to
influence the wired/wireless network evolution. I think that it is up to
us to take the long term architectural view of the problem and then
propose solutions within the constraints of those architectural
framework. To that extent, I believe we (CAPWAP) need to document our
architectural constraints that we want to use as guideposts as we are
developing our protocol(s). [Aside: If the groups feels that this is a
useful exercise then I am willing to contribute to that effort as
required.]
=20
With regard to the hardware - yes, the hardware will need to be modified
for the initial implementation of CAPWAP frames but the intent is that
we should not have to rev the hardware when we extend CAPWAP control
plane for 802.16, 802.xx or new variants in 802.11. Software revs are
much cheaper (and faster) than hardware revs.
=20
Thanks.
=20
-Puneet

________________________________

From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:25 PM
To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC


Puneet,
=20
You are making assumptions about 802.16 that converting the frames to
802.3 will allow the AC to provide the normal function of an 802.16 base
station - ditto for all wireless technologies. Is this realistic?
=20
As an aside, the hardware needs to be modified to support CAPWAP frames
too...

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20


________________________________

	From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
	Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:34 AM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
=09
=09
	Hi Pat,
	=20
	Sorry for the delayed response.
	=20
	The main reason for doing .11 Integration service (convert
802.11 <--> 802.3 frame) in the WTP is that it insulates the AC data
plane from any changes in the 802.11 (and other wireless bindings) frame
format. For many reasons, including fast roaming now (and in future
inter AC roaming), one still wants to do the .11 Distribution service at
the AC (for a single point of presence in the L2 wired network of a
wireless node) - hence the split MAC model. The proposed split insulates
the "data plane" at the AC from the vagaries of the underlying wireless
binding formats (802.11, 802.16, 802.xx) and any changes to those
formats.
	=20
	Wrt Mike M's comment about "802.11 management frame" - 802.11
non-data frames (like management frames etc) are not handled by the data
plane (as they are not switched into the L2 network). Hence the CAPWAP
protocol should really provide a separate mechanism in the control
channel to carry such non-data frames unmodified to the AC if so desired
(could be a separate opcode in the control channel that is specific to
the 802.11 binding). This will go a long way in decoupling the data and
control plane in the CAPWAP protocol and provide for the architectural
longevity of the CAPWAP protocol. Moreover, it is highly likely that
other wireless MACs have their own management frames which need to be
sent to the AC control channel that do not need to be processed by the
data channel.
	=20
	It is my humble opinion that the CAPWAP base protocol should be
designed such that it is independent of the underlying wireless
technology. When one introduces a new wireless binding (like 802.16), we
will have to write a new control plane (and do a software upgrade) but
the intent should be able to reuse the same dataplane hardware/firmware
as was deployed for 802.11. Control plane changes are primarily a new
software load on the AC - a data plane change is much more expensive to
customers as it typically involves hardware.
	=20
	Thanks.
	=20
	-Puneet

________________________________

	From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
	Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:21 AM
	To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
	Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
=09
=09
	Puneet,
	=20
	Could you once more remind me why two different tunneling
formats is required in split-MAC mode?
	=20

	Pat Calhoun
	CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
	Cisco Systems

	=20


________________________________

		From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
		Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:08 PM
		To: capwap@frascone.com
		Subject: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
	=09
	=09
		Hi All,
		=20
		One of the recommendations of the evaluation team was to
have a mode to tunnel 802.3 frames between WTP and AC. It seems that
that requirement was interpreted as tunneling 802.3 frames for local
MAC. However after talking to various folks at IETF 65 (dallas), it
seems the intent was to tunnel 802.3 frames in the split MAC (and not
local MAC).
		=20
		Hence I would propose the following:
		=20
		(a) Delete the tunneling of 802.3 frames between
AC<->WTP for Local MAC and replace it with (b).
		(b) Add tunneling 802.3 frames between AC <-> WTP for
Split MAC. Following the notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of
Split MAC should be defined (based on recommendation of the eval team)
as follows. I have marked the changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1
with * (note: section 11.1.1 remains unchanged - this proposal is an
addition to and not a replacement for section 11.1.1):
		=20
		        Function                               Location
		        -------------
-------------
		            Distribution Service
AC
		            Integration Service
*WTP*
		            Beacon Generation                       WTP
		            Probe Response                           WTP
		            Power Mgmt/Packet Buffering        WTP
		            Fragmentation/Defragmentation      WTP
		            Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc              AC
		=20
		       802.11e
		            Classifying                               AC
		            Scheduling
*WTP* (I don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at
AC)
		            Queuing
WTP
		=20
		       802.11i
		            802.1X/EAP                                AC
		            Key Management                        AC
		            802.11 Encryption/Decryption      *WTP*
		=20
		Thanks.
		=20
		-Puneet
		=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D334033100-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Pat,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D334033100-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D334033100-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It is hard for me to conjecture how realistic =
this goal is=20
as it is difficult for me to speculate how the various protocols (.11, =
.16 etc)=20
are going to evolve. All I can do is point to past architectural =
frameworks=20
within IETF that were application neutral and led to and explosion (in a =
manner=20
of speaking) of applications after the base protocol data path was =
defined - the=20
most recent one that comes to mind is MPLS. The base architecture of =
MPLS was=20
application neutral and this led to many variants like RSVP-TE LSPs, L2 =
VPNs,=20
L3VPN etc. Each of these applications had a different control plane =
protocol=20
variant (RSVP, LDP, BGP) but the same/similar data plane processing for =
most=20
part.&nbsp;This is not an apples to apples comparison with wireless but =
just an=20
illustration to&nbsp;substantiate my point.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN =
class=3D334033100-28032006></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D334033100-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I believe that the CAPWAP working group is in a =
unique=20
position to influence the wired/wireless network evolution. I think that =
it is=20
up to us to take the long term architectural view of the problem and =
then=20
propose solutions within the constraints of those architectural =
framework. To=20
that extent, I believe we (CAPWAP) need to document our architectural=20
constraints that we want to use as guideposts as we are developing our=20
protocol(s). [Aside: If the groups feels that this is a useful exercise =
then I=20
am willing to contribute to that effort as =
required.]</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D334033100-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D334033100-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>With regard to the hardware - yes, the hardware =
will need=20
to be modified for the initial&nbsp;implementation of CAPWAP frames but =
the=20
intent is that we should not have to rev the hardware when we extend =
CAPWAP=20
control plane for 802.16, 802.xx or new variants in 802.11. Software =
revs are=20
much cheaper (and faster) than hardware revs.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D334033100-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D334033100-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D334033100-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D334033100-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)=20
[mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 27, 2006 2:25 =

PM<BR><B>To:</B> Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
RE:=20
[Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP &lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D751222422-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Puneet,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D751222422-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D751222422-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>You=20
are making assumptions about 802.16 that converting the frames to 802.3 =
will=20
allow the AC to provide the normal function of an 802.16 base station - =
ditto=20
for all wireless technologies. Is this realistic?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D751222422-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D751222422-27032006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>As an=20
aside, the hardware needs to be modified to support CAPWAP frames=20
too...</FONT></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Puneet Agarwal=20
  [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 27, 2006 =
11:34=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
  capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling =
between WTP=20
  &lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Pat,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Sorry for the delayed =
response.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The main reason for doing .11 Integration =
service=20
  (convert 802.11&nbsp;&lt;--&gt; 802.3 frame) in the WTP is that it =
insulates=20
  the AC data plane from any changes in the 802.11 (and other wireless =
bindings)=20
  frame format. For many reasons, including fast roaming now (and in =
future=20
  inter AC roaming), one still wants to do the .11 Distribution service =
at the=20
  AC (for a single point of presence in the L2 wired network of a =
wireless node)=20
  - hence the split MAC model. The proposed split insulates the "data =
plane" at=20
  the AC from the vagaries of the underlying wireless binding formats =
(802.11,=20
  802.16, 802.xx) and any changes to those formats.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Wrt Mike M's comment about "<FONT =
size=3D2>802.11=20
  management frame</FONT>" - 802.11 non-data frames (like management =
frames etc)=20
  are not handled by the data plane (as they are not switched into the =
L2=20
  network). Hence the CAPWAP protocol should really provide a separate =
mechanism=20
  in the control channel to carry such non-data frames unmodified to the =
AC if=20
  so desired (could be a separate opcode in the control channel that is =
specific=20
  to the 802.11 binding). This will go a long way in decoupling the data =
and=20
  control plane in the CAPWAP protocol and provide for the architectural =

  longevity of the CAPWAP protocol. Moreover, it is highly likely that =
other=20
  wireless MACs have their own management frames which need to be sent =
to the AC=20
  control channel that do not need to be processed by the data=20
  channel.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT=20
  face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It is my humble opinion that the CAPWAP base =
protocol=20
  should be designed such that it is independent of the underlying =
wireless=20
  technology. When one introduces a new wireless binding (like 802.16), =
we will=20
  have to write a new control plane (and do a software upgrade) but the =
intent=20
  should be able to reuse the same dataplane hardware/firmware as was =
deployed=20
  for 802.11. Control plane changes are primarily a new software load on =
the AC=20
  - a data plane change is much more expensive to customers as it =
typically=20
  involves hardware.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D594444818-27032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)=20
  [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 23, 2006 =
10:21=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Puneet Agarwal; =
capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
  [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP &lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D693272018-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Puneet,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D693272018-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D693272018-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Could you once more remind me why two different tunneling =
formats is=20
  required in split-MAC mode?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
  <P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Pat Calhoun<BR>CTO, Wireless Networking =
Business=20
  Unit<BR>Cisco Systems</P></FONT>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
    <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Puneet Agarwal=20
    [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 22, =
2006=20
    10:08 PM<BR><B>To:</B> capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Capwap] Data=20
    tunneling between WTP &lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi =

    All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>One of the=20
    recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to tunnel =
802.3=20
    frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement was =
interpreted as=20
    tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. However after talking to =
various folks=20
    at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent was to tunnel 802.3 frames =
in the=20
    split MAC (and not local MAC).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Hence I would=20
    propose the following:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>(a) Delete the=20
    tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC&lt;-&gt;WTP for Local MAC and =
replace=20
    it with (b).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>(b) Add=20
    tunneling 802.3 frames between AC &lt;-&gt; WTP for Split MAC. =
Following the=20
    notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC should be =
defined=20
    (based on recommendation of the eval team) as follows. I have marked =
the=20
    changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1 with * (note: section =
11.1.1=20
    remains unchanged - this proposal is an addition to and not a =
replacement=20
    for section 11.1.1):</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
Function&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    Location</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-------------&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
-------------<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
    Distribution=20
    =
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

    Integration=20
    =
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*=
WTP*<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
    Beacon=20
    =
Generation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;=20
    Probe=20
    =
Response&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    Power Mgmt/Packet=20
    =
Buffering&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
Fragmentation/Defragmentation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;AC</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
802.11e<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
    =
Classifying&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

    =
Scheduling&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*&nbsp;(I=20
    don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at=20
    =
AC)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
    =
Queuing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    WTP</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
802.11i<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
    =
802.1X/EAP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Key=20
    =
Management&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
    802.11=20
    =
Encryption/Decryption&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*</FONT></SP=
AN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D762204805-23032006><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: RE: Milestone dates was: RE: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient
	capwap base protocol
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:29:58 -0800
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: <Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com>, <scott@hyperthought.com>,
	<capwap@frascone.com>
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Dorothy, you state " meet the market's expectations". Do we have anyway
to quantify that statement?

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com [mailto:Dorothy.Gellert@nokia.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 3:39 PM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); scott@hyperthought.com;=20
> capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Milestone dates was: RE: [Capwap] a necessary and=20
> sufficient capwap base protocol
>=20
> Mani and I did have a chance to talk to the ADs briefly last=20
> week about the milestone dates.  Their concerns are based on=20
> meeting the market need for CAPWAP before it becomes obsolete. =20
>=20
> Can we have the WG weigh in on the mailing list as to how=20
> urgent the need is to release the CAPWAP protocol to meet the market's
> expectations?  =20
>=20
> Thanks,
> Dorothy=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:03 PM
> To: Scott G Kelly; capwap
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient capwap base protocol
>=20
> I believe that rushing to provide a sub-optimal protocol is=20
> not in the best interest of the Internet community. In fact,=20
> I've been thinking about the comment made at the IETF about=20
> perhaps not waiting for 802.11n, and get CAPWAP out the door.=20
> My recollection of the reasoning was that we needed to=20
> address market need while it still existed.
> However, I would claim that if we don't have a solution that=20
> supports 802.11n, then all vendors will still end up with=20
> proprietary solutions by the time the CAPWAP standard is=20
> ready - as 802.11n will be mandatory for our customers. So if=20
> interoperability is the key goal for CAPWAP, then I propose=20
> we do it right.
>=20
> More on Scott's proposals...
>=20
> > - NAT traversal (IPsec working group did this as an add-on,=20
> and since=20
> > not all vendors care about this, it makes sense to consider that=20
> > approach here)
>=20
> Plenty of protocols are NAT-able, and my belief is that we=20
> are chasing a problem that doesn't need to be. The protocol,=20
> as it stands, already is NAT'ed in various customer deployments.
>=20
> >=20
> > - AC/WTP load balancing; different vendors have different=20
> approaches,=20
> > and it's not clear that we should be forcing one vendor's view on=20
> > everyone else.
>=20
> Going back to my comment above, it's all about=20
> interoperability. If we can to design a protocol that scales,=20
> then this feature is required.
>=20
> > - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a different=20
> > endpoint than the control channel; this has definite security=20
> > implications, and probably requires a secure inter-AC protocol, in=20
> > addition to its own state machine loop(s). It's a corner case that=20
> > many won't care about.
>=20
> Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale=20
> deployments and the protocol supports it already.
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> _________________________________________________________________
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> With a well-designed (read: extensible) base protocol, why=20
> can't 11n functionality be modularly added? Why must it be in=20
> the base spec?

The 802.11n spec is in letter ballot, and some early products are coming
out
next year. This is not the moving target that folks seem to think it is.
There is
significant pressure to get the spec out on time. If we were to push
CAPWAP out
without support for 802.11n, we will end up with a proposal that doesn't
match the
realities of 802.11, and therefore will have limited applicability.

Dorothy stated that we need to have a spec that is shipped in time to
match market
need, but I would counter this by stating that the spec must be capable
of matching
market feature needs as well.

> Historically, new _tunneling_ protocols are not NAT-able=20
> until either the protocols are somehow extended or the market=20
> reaches a critical mass, and middlebox vendors are forced by=20
> their customers to accommodate the protocols.

Umm... L2TP was absolutely NAT-able from day one without any ALGs
required
on the NAT device. LWAPP used many of the concepts from this protocol in
its early designs.

>=20
> LWAPP, as it stands, already runs over one port with a MUX=20
> header. This, in conjunction with the built-in heartbeat=20
> (echo request/reply), suggests that it should work as-is in=20
> some simple NAT scenarios. However, the IPsec group dedicated=20
> 2 RFCs to this problem, suggesting that it is not really all=20
> that simple. Still, if you could share the details of the=20
> scenarios in which it *is* currently working, that might help=20
> to clarify how much remains to be done. If we are willing to=20
> stick with one channel and a mux header, maybe we can deal=20
> with simple nat-t in the base spec, and worry about more=20
> complex scenarios in follow-on work.

I don't argue that IPSec had multiple specs for this purpose, but again,
L2TP designed their
protocol from the get-go with NAT in mind - and it does work. If we
decide to push this off,
then we will end up with the multiple specs defining possible changes to
the base spec to
support NAT environments.

NAT was a recommendation by the eval team that I agree we need to
pursue.

> For example, I would argue that the controller, not the wtp,=20
> should make such decisions, and it could do so by simply not=20
> responding to a discover request (or the JOIN which follows,=20
> if you prefer) when it is too busy to be bothered. After all,=20
> it is the _controller_, is it not? This does not require any=20
> special protocol elements, and is arguably sufficient for a=20
> base protocol. More complex approaches can be layered on top=20
> of this, and need not delay advancement of the base protocol.

How does a controller know whether it is any busier than the other
controllers? Seems like you end up in a scenario where a WTP can end
up being stranded. While it is an example, I don't think it's the best
one.

That said, we need to design a protocol that allows systems to scale.
If that means we have to do real engineering work to solve this issue,
then by all means.

> By what rationale is this mandatory? In any event,  this=20
> implies a (secure) inter-AC protocol, which is not currently=20
> in scope, and is not currently specified. If this=20
> functionality is truly mandatory, we need to expand our wg=20
> charter to include secure inter-AC communications.

Allows vendors to innovate and provide scalable solutions - has always
been in the LWAPP spec, and I'm not supportive of removing this feature.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:22:15 +0300
From: Periklis Chatzimisios <peris@it.teithe.gr>
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  (Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this message)
               

                          Workshop Program and Call for Participation

             ====================================

                       1st Workshop on 
          multiMedia Applications over Wireless Networks             
                       (MediaWiN 2006)
                (http://mediaWiN.it.teithe.gr)
                        
   In conjunction with 12th European Wireless Conference (EW 2006)
            (http://www.telecom.ece.ntua.gr/EW2006)



_Workshop Date:_  Sunday, April 2nd, 2006

_Location:_ MediaWiN 2006 will take place at the National Technical 
University of Athens (NTUA), in Athens, Greece.


_Workshop Program:_

8:00 - 9:00*   *Registration - Welcome Reception
*
*9:00 - 9:30   Opening talk by Ilenia Tinnirello
              "Evolution of the WLAN Access Protocols and Infrastructures"


9:30 - 12:30*  *Session I

"A CAPWAP Architecture for Dynamic Configuration of QoS MAC Parameters" 
A. Banchs, G. Iannello, P. Serrano and L. Vollero (invited)

"Performance Measurements of Multimedia Flows over a WiFi-based Mesh 
Network"
Roberto Riggio, Daniele Miorandi, Giovanni Iacovoni, Imrich Chlamtac, 
Nicola Scalabrino and Enrico Gregori (invited)

"Optimal power control for embedded packet video transmission over WiFi" 
Cristina Emilia Costa and Fabrizio Granelli (invited)

"Enabling eCommunities with the 3GPP IP Multimedia Subsystem" 
Niklas Blum, Jens-Michael Klaus, Simon Dutkowski and Thomas Magedanz

"CLPC: Cross-Layer Product Code for Video Multicast over IEEE 802.11" 
Kihwan Choi and Sunghyun Choi (invited)

"Increasing Revenues via Adaptive Filtering for Multimedia 
Communications over Multi Code CDMA Networks"  
Flavio De Angelis and Ibrahim Habib (invited)

---------------------

12:30 - 14:00   Lunch

---------------------


14:00 -17:30 Session II

"A Practical Location Aware Access Control Solution for HTML Content in 
Wireless Networks"  
Vasilios Katos and Ioannis Mavridis (invited)

"SIP-based Multimedia Service Continuity across Various Hosts and 
Networks" 
Mejdi Kaddour, Djamel Belaid and Guy Bernard

"Improving Scalable Video Delivery with Crosslayer Design" 
Janne Vehkapera", Kostas Pentikousis, Jyrki Huusko, Johannes Peltola and 
Mikko Majanen (invited)

"Efficient Packetization for Bluetooth Video Transmission" 
R. Razavi, M. Fleury, E. A. Jammeh and M. Ghanbari

"Resource & Service Discovery in Ad-hoc Visual Sensor Networks" 
Th. Zahariadis, S. Voliotis, Ch. Manasis and D. Bargiotas

"IEEE 802.11b voice quality assessment using cross-layer information" 
Ian Marsh, Juan Carlos Martin Severiano, Victor Yuri Diogo Nunes and 
Gerald Q. Maguire Jr.





-----
Dr. Periklis Chatzimisios
Researcher in Wireless Communications & Multimedia Networks
Department of Informatics,
TEI of Thessaloniki, GR-574 00
Thessaloniki, Greece

E-mail: pchatzimisios@ieee.org
URL: http://decweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/staff/pchatzimisios
Tel: +30 2310-791604
Fax: +30 2310-791290
MediaWiN 2006 Workshop <http://mediawin.it.teithe.gr/>





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=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1st Wo=
rkshop on=A0 <br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 multiMedia Applications over Wireless Network=
s=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 (MediaWi=
N 2006)
<br>
=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 (<a href=3D"http://mediaWiN.it.te=
ithe.gr">http://mediaWiN.it.teithe.gr</a>)<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0<br=
>
=A0=A0 In conjunction with 12th European Wireless Conference (EW 2006)<br=
>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 (<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext"
 href=3D"http://www.telecom.ece.ntua.gr/EW2006">http://www.telecom.ece.nt=
ua.gr/EW2006</a>)
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<u>Workshop Date:</u>=A0 Sunday, April 2nd, 2006<br>
<br>
<u>Location:</u> MediaWiN 2006 will take place at the National
Technical University of Athens (NTUA), in Athens, Greece.<br>
<br>
<br>
<u>Workshop Program:</u><br>
<br>
8:00 - 9:00<b>=A0=A0 </b>Registration - Welcome Reception<br>
<b><br>
</b>9:00 - 9:30=A0=A0 Opening talk by Ilenia Tinnirello <br>
=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 &#8220;Evolution of the WLAN Access=
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Infrastructures&#8221;<br>
<br>
<br>
9:30 - 12:30<b>=A0 </b>Session I<br>
<br>
&#8220;A CAPWAP Architecture for Dynamic Configuration of QoS MAC
Parameters&#8221;=A0 <br>
A. Banchs, G. Iannello, P. Serrano and L. Vollero (invited)<br>
<br>
&#8220;Performance Measurements of Multimedia Flows over a WiFi-based Mes=
h
Network&#8221; <br>
Roberto Riggio, Daniele Miorandi, Giovanni Iacovoni, Imrich Chlamtac,
Nicola Scalabrino and Enrico Gregori (invited)<br>
<br>
&#8220;Optimal power control for embedded packet video transmission over
WiFi&#8221;=A0 <br>
Cristina Emilia Costa and Fabrizio Granelli (invited)<br>
<br>
&#8220;Enabling eCommunities with the 3GPP IP Multimedia Subsystem&#8221;=
=A0 <br>
Niklas Blum, Jens-Michael Klaus, Simon Dutkowski and Thomas Magedanz<br>
<br>
&#8220;CLPC: Cross-Layer Product Code for Video Multicast over IEEE 802.1=
1&#8221;=A0 <br>
Kihwan Choi and Sunghyun Choi (invited)<br>
<br>
&#8220;Increasing Revenues via Adaptive Filtering for Multimedia
Communications over Multi Code CDMA Networks&#8221;=A0=A0 <br>
Flavio De Angelis and Ibrahim Habib (invited)<br>
<br>
<pre wrap=3D"">---------------------</pre>
12:30 - 14:00=A0=A0 Lunch<br>
<pre wrap=3D"">---------------------

</pre>
14:00 -17:30 Session II<br>
<br>
&#8220;A Practical Location Aware Access Control Solution for HTML Conten=
t in
Wireless Networks&#8221;=A0=A0 <br>
Vasilios Katos and Ioannis Mavridis (invited)<br>
<br>
&#8220;SIP-based Multimedia Service Continuity across Various Hosts and
Networks&#8221;=A0 <br>
Mejdi Kaddour, Djamel Belaid and Guy Bernard<br>
<br>
&#8220;Improving Scalable Video Delivery with Crosslayer Design&#8221;=A0=
 <br>
Janne Vehkaper&auml;, Kostas Pentikousis, Jyrki Huusko, Johannes Peltola =
and
Mikko Majanen (invited)<br>
<br>
&#8220;Efficient Packetization for Bluetooth Video Transmission&#8221;=A0=
 <br>
R. Razavi, M. Fleury, E. A. Jammeh and M. Ghanbari<br>
<br>
&#8220;Resource &amp; Service Discovery in Ad-hoc Visual Sensor Networks&=
#8221;=A0 <br>
Th. Zahariadis, S. Voliotis, Ch. Manasis and D. Bargiotas<br>
<br>
&#8220;IEEE 802.11b voice quality assessment using cross-layer informatio=
n&#8221;=A0 <br>
Ian Marsh, Juan Carlos Martin Severiano, Victor Yuri Diogo Nunes and
Gerald Q. Maguire Jr.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----
<br>
Dr. Periklis Chatzimisios
<br>
Researcher in Wireless Communications &amp; Multimedia Networks
<br>
Department of Informatics,
<br>
TEI of Thessaloniki, GR-574 00<br>
Thessaloniki, Greece
<br>
<br>
E-mail: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
 href=3D"mailto:pchatzimisios@ieee.org">pchatzimisios@ieee.org</a> <br>
URL: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext"
 href=3D"http://decweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/staff/pchatzimisios">http://decw=
eb.bournemouth.ac.uk/staff/pchatzimisios</a>
<br>
Tel: +30 2310-791604<br>
Fax: +30 2310-791290
<br>
<a href=3D"http://mediawin.it.teithe.gr/">MediaWiN 2006
Workshop</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
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The original request stated:
> Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a=20
> slightly different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.=20
> The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration=20
> Request and the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would=20
> be used for the WLAN as part of the Configuration Response.=20
> In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID to=20
> WLAN ID mappings.

I'd like to better understand the justification for making such
a change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for this
feature?
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:10:36 -0800
Message-ID: <8954613CA6BB3242A1531D916A527A419E3DFF@NT-SJCA-0751.brcm.ad.broadcom.com>
Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC
Thread-Index: AcZOQCgaCsnrfjUjR3qI8toXSkqJjADwFG3QACP5YeA=
From: "Puneet Agarwal" <pagarwal@broadcom.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
	capwap@frascone.com
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Hi Saravan,
=20
802.3 tunnel mode option only applies when WTP is performing the
Integration service.
=20
Part of the challenge is that Split MAC is a very overloaded term. We
really need to specify clearly which capabilities reside where (even in
modified Split MAC) for the proposed 802.3 tunneling mode. This is what
I attempted to do in specifying the new variant of Split MAC (where
integration in done on the WTP but Distribution is still done at the
AC). For clarity in specification, I would err on the side of being a
little verbose, and add the necessary text that I outlined in my earlier
email (or some variant of it) to the spec for the 802.3 tunneling mode
as a separate subsection of 11.1.1.
=20
Thanks.
=20
-Puneet

________________________________

From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 4:50 PM
To: Puneet Agarwal; capwap@frascone.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC



Puneet,

=20

Since the evaluation teams recommended in introducing a 802.3-tunnel
mode option, would it be better to have integration services performed
at AC "or" WTP?



In general, I think this is a configuration feature to be determined
during initial WTP configuration. So we can introduce the tunnel mode
option here and include text in Section 5.1.5 (WTP Frame Type) to the
effect of=20

=20

"2 - 802.3 Bridging:  802.3 Bridging requires the WTP and AC to=20

     encapsulate all user payload as native IEEE 802.3 frames (see

     Section 4.2).  This value DELETE: (MUST NOT be) REPLACE WITH: (is)
used when the MAC Type is

     set to Split-MAC."

=20

=20

Cheers,


Saravanan

=20

=20

=20

=20

________________________________

From: Puneet Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:08 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Subject: [Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP <->AC

=20

Hi All,

=20

One of the recommendations of the evaluation team was to have a mode to
tunnel 802.3 frames between WTP and AC. It seems that that requirement
was interpreted as tunneling 802.3 frames for local MAC. However after
talking to various folks at IETF 65 (dallas), it seems the intent was to
tunnel 802.3 frames in the split MAC (and not local MAC).

=20

Hence I would propose the following:

=20

(a) Delete the tunneling of 802.3 frames between AC<->WTP for Local MAC
and replace it with (b).

(b) Add tunneling 802.3 frames between AC <-> WTP for Split MAC.
Following the notation in section 11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC
should be defined (based on recommendation of the eval team) as follows.
I have marked the changes wrt the draft-00's section 11.1.1 with *
(note: section 11.1.1 remains unchanged - this proposal is an addition
to and not a replacement for section 11.1.1):

=20

        Function                               Location

        -------------                               -------------
            Distribution Service                       AC
            Integration Service                       *WTP*
            Beacon Generation                       WTP
            Probe Response                           WTP
            Power Mgmt/Packet Buffering        WTP
            Fragmentation/Defragmentation      WTP
            Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc              AC

=20

       802.11e
            Classifying                               AC
            Scheduling                               *WTP* (I don't
understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at AC)
            Queuing                                   WTP

=20

       802.11i
            802.1X/EAP                                AC
            Key Management                        AC
            802.11 Encryption/Decryption      *WTP*

=20

Thanks.

=20

-Puneet

=20


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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D496255217-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Saravan,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D496255217-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D496255217-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>802.3 tunnel mode option only applies when WTP =
is=20
performing the Integration service.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D496255217-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D496255217-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Part of the challenge is that Split MAC is a =
very=20
overloaded term. We really need to specify clearly which capabilities =
reside=20
where (even in modified Split MAC) for the proposed 802.3 tunneling =
mode. This=20
is what I attempted to do in specifying the new variant of Split MAC =
(where=20
integration in done on the WTP but Distribution is still done at the =
AC). For=20
clarity in specification, I would err on the side of being a little =
verbose, and=20
add the necessary text that I outlined in my earlier email (or some =
variant of=20
it) to the spec for the 802.3 tunneling mode as a separate subsection of =

11.1.1.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D496255217-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D496255217-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D496255217-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D496255217-28032006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>-Puneet</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Saravanan Govindan=20
[mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, =
March 27,=20
2006 4:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Puneet Agarwal;=20
capwap@frascone.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Capwap] Data tunneling =
between WTP=20
&lt;-&gt;AC<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Puneet,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Since the evaluation teams =

recommended in introducing a 802.3-tunnel mode option, would it be =
better to=20
have integration services performed at AC &#8220;or&#8221;=20
WTP?<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In general, I think this =
is a=20
configuration feature to be determined during initial WTP configuration. =
So we=20
can introduce the tunnel mode option here and include text in Section =
5.1.5 (WTP=20
Frame Type) to the effect of <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8220;2 - 802.3 =
Bridging:&nbsp; 802.3=20
Bridging requires the WTP and AC to <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;encapsulate=20
all user payload as native IEEE 802.3 frames =
(see<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Section=20
4.2).&nbsp; This value DELETE: (MUST NOT be) REPLACE WITH: (is) used =
when the=20
MAC Type is<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
set to=20
Split-MAC.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><BR>Saravanan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT =

face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma"> Puneet=20
Agarwal [mailto:pagarwal@broadcom.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, March 23, 2006 =
2:08=20
PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
capwap@frascone.com<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>=20
[Capwap] Data tunneling between WTP=20
&lt;-&gt;AC</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
All,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">One of the recommendations =
of the=20
evaluation team was to have a mode to tunnel 802.3 frames between WTP =
and AC. It=20
seems that that requirement was interpreted as tunneling 802.3 frames =
for local=20
MAC. However after talking to various folks at IETF 65 (dallas), it =
seems the=20
intent was to tunnel 802.3 frames in the split MAC (and not local=20
MAC).</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hence I would propose the=20
following:</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(a) Delete the tunneling =
of 802.3=20
frames between AC&lt;-&gt;WTP for Local MAC and replace it with=20
(b).</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(b) Add tunneling 802.3 =
frames=20
between AC &lt;-&gt; WTP for Split MAC. Following the notation in =
section=20
11.1.1, a new variant of Split MAC should be defined (based on =
recommendation of=20
the eval team) as follows. I have marked the changes wrt the draft-00's =
section=20
11.1.1 with * (note: section 11.1.1 remains unchanged - this proposal is =
an=20
addition to and not a replacement for section=20
11.1.1):</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Function&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Location</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-------------&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
-------------<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
Distribution=20
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

Integration=20
Service&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*=
WTP*<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
Beacon=20
Generation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;=20
Probe=20
Response&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Power Mgmt/Packet=20
Buffering&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Fragmentation/Defragmentation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP<BR>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Assoc/Disassoc/Reassoc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;AC</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
802.11e<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
Classifying&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

Scheduling&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*&nbsp;(I=20
don't understand why section 11.1.1 shows .11e scheduling at=20
AC)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
Queuing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
WTP</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
802.11i<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
802.1X/EAP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Key=20
Management&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;AC<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
802.11=20
Encryption/Decryption&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*WTP*</SPAN></FO=
NT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Thanks.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">-Puneet</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Thread-Topic: Issue 69: Clarify the contents of the key field in add/update
	WLAN
Thread-Index: AcZSkxT+6e4I9zTlSpOHuNm/3jGPnw==
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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Subject: [Capwap] Issue 69: Clarify the contents of the key field in
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The original comment was:
>  2. Isn't it likely for the WTP and AC to support more than=20
> one encryption algorithm for the data from the  mobile=20
> stations ? And the mobile stations can make a choice of the=20
> encr algo that they can use.
>=20
>     In that case, the Encryption policy defined as part of =20
> Update WLAN ( Section 11.8.1.3) and Secn 11.8.1.1 (Add WLAN)=20
> should  be a bit-map.=20

The quick answer is no, only a single encryption mechanism can be used.
Recall that this key indication is for either shared WEP, or dynamic
(802.11i) encryption keys. Using the former, only a single method is
supported. As far as 802.11i, the standard states that the lower=20
encryption method advertised is used in broadcast messages. For
instance,
if a BSSID advertises support for WEP, TKIP and AES, all broadcast=20
messages would use WEP. So there is no such concept as having different
encryption group encryption algorithms per BSSID.

So I'd like to close this issue, unless folks disagree.=20


Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
	capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
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Pat,

The idea behind the recommendation was that you could define a WLAN ID and
map it to an VLAN/ESS/Broadcast domain and include it in the CAPWAP header
for data traffic. In this way, the fast path would not have to interpret the
BSSID to make forwarding decisions.

I don't have particularily strong feelings for this feature.

Cheers,

	Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] 
> Sent: March 28, 2006 1:06 PM
> To: capwap
> Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> 
> The original request stated:
> > Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly 
> > different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
> > The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration 
> Request and 
> > the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would be used for 
> the WLAN 
> > as part of the Configuration Response.
> > In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID 
> to WLAN ID 
> > mappings.
> 
> I'd like to better understand the justification for making 
> such a change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for 
> this feature?
>  
> 
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> _________________________________________________________________
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:40:35 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
Thread-Index: AcZSllYZhdsI4wU9SWG5Qa7CdQXf+QAAHrIA
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Michael Montemurro" <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>,
	"capwap" <capwap@frascone.com>
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But as I understand the original recommendation, the change=20
request was to make the WLAN configuration a two step process, where
the WTP simply uses an index (base BSSID + WLAN ID) and the AC can
assume what the BSSID for the WLAN is. This is the simplest solution
but does have a requirement that the MAC addresses allocated on the WTP
are contiguous (which is really not an unrealistic requirement anyhow).

Based on your comment below, it appears that you are ok with the
protocol
as-is. Correct?

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Montemurro [mailto:michael.montemurro@siemens.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:34 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
>=20
> Pat,
>=20
> The idea behind the recommendation was that you could define=20
> a WLAN ID and map it to an VLAN/ESS/Broadcast domain and=20
> include it in the CAPWAP header for data traffic. In this=20
> way, the fast path would not have to interpret the BSSID to=20
> make forwarding decisions.
>=20
> I don't have particularily strong feelings for this feature.
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> 	Mike
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> > Sent: March 28, 2006 1:06 PM
> > To: capwap
> > Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> >=20
> > The original request stated:
> > > Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly=20
> > > different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
> > > The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration
> > Request and
> > > the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would be used for
> > the WLAN
> > > as part of the Configuration Response.
> > > In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID
> > to WLAN ID
> > > mappings.
> >=20
> > I'd like to better understand the justification for making such a=20
> > change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for this feature?
> > =20
> >=20
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> > Cisco Systems
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >=20
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >=20
>=20
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From: Michael Montemurro <michael.montemurro@siemens.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
	capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
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Yes I am.

	Mike 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] 
> Sent: March 28, 2006 1:41 PM
> To: Michael Montemurro; capwap
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> 
> But as I understand the original recommendation, the change 
> request was to make the WLAN configuration a two step 
> process, where the WTP simply uses an index (base BSSID + 
> WLAN ID) and the AC can assume what the BSSID for the WLAN 
> is. This is the simplest solution but does have a requirement 
> that the MAC addresses allocated on the WTP are contiguous 
> (which is really not an unrealistic requirement anyhow).
> 
> Based on your comment below, it appears that you are ok with 
> the protocol as-is. Correct?
> 
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> 
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Montemurro [mailto:michael.montemurro@siemens.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:34 AM
> > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> > 
> > Pat,
> > 
> > The idea behind the recommendation was that you could 
> define a WLAN ID 
> > and map it to an VLAN/ESS/Broadcast domain and include it in the 
> > CAPWAP header for data traffic. In this way, the fast path 
> would not 
> > have to interpret the BSSID to make forwarding decisions.
> > 
> > I don't have particularily strong feelings for this feature.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > 	Mike
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> > > Sent: March 28, 2006 1:06 PM
> > > To: capwap
> > > Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> > > 
> > > The original request stated:
> > > > Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly 
> > > > different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
> > > > The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration
> > > Request and
> > > > the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would be used for
> > > the WLAN
> > > > as part of the Configuration Response.
> > > > In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID
> > > to WLAN ID
> > > > mappings.
> > > 
> > > I'd like to better understand the justification for making such a 
> > > change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for 
> this feature?
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Pat Calhoun
> > > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems 
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > > 
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > > 
> > 
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> 
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> 
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From: Partha Narasimhan <partha@arubanetworks.com>
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
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I am aware of implementations (not my own) where the BSSID map does not 
follow the mapping you have listed below. The MAC addresses are contiguous 
except not in the LSB bits. IMHO, it is cleaner to let the WTP manage that 
mapping and notify the AC of the same. Which, if I understood it 
correctly, is what the original comment was asking for.

Thanks
partha

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:

> But as I understand the original recommendation, the change
> request was to make the WLAN configuration a two step process, where
> the WTP simply uses an index (base BSSID + WLAN ID) and the AC can
> assume what the BSSID for the WLAN is. This is the simplest solution
> but does have a requirement that the MAC addresses allocated on the WTP
> are contiguous (which is really not an unrealistic requirement anyhow).
>
> Based on your comment below, it appears that you are ok with the
> protocol
> as-is. Correct?
>
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Montemurro [mailto:michael.montemurro@siemens.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:34 AM
>> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
>> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
>>
>> Pat,
>>
>> The idea behind the recommendation was that you could define
>> a WLAN ID and map it to an VLAN/ESS/Broadcast domain and
>> include it in the CAPWAP header for data traffic. In this
>> way, the fast path would not have to interpret the BSSID to
>> make forwarding decisions.
>>
>> I don't have particularily strong feelings for this feature.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> 	Mike
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
>>> Sent: March 28, 2006 1:06 PM
>>> To: capwap
>>> Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
>>>
>>> The original request stated:
>>>> Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly
>>>> different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
>>>> The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration
>>> Request and
>>>> the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would be used for
>>> the WLAN
>>>> as part of the Configuration Response.
>>>> In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID
>>> to WLAN ID
>>>> mappings.
>>>
>>> I'd like to better understand the justification for making such a
>>> change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for this feature?
>>>
>>>
>>> Pat Calhoun
>>> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
>>> Cisco Systems
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>>> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>>>
>>
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:56:47 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Partha Narasimhan" <partha@arubanetworks.com>
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You are correct, Partha. My point is that it involves new messages
that don't exist, possible changes to the state machine (not sure).
So I'm trying to find out how much people care about this feature
Before I go ahead and start writing significant text.

So far, looks like you think it would be a neat idea, but not
necessary (based on your comment "I am aware of implementations
(not my own)". Correct?

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Partha Narasimhan [mailto:partha@arubanetworks.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:46 AM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Cc: Michael Montemurro; capwap
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
>=20
> I am aware of implementations (not my own) where the BSSID=20
> map does not follow the mapping you have listed below. The=20
> MAC addresses are contiguous except not in the LSB bits.=20
> IMHO, it is cleaner to let the WTP manage that mapping and=20
> notify the AC of the same. Which, if I understood it=20
> correctly, is what the original comment was asking for.
>=20
> Thanks
> partha
>=20
> On Tue, 28 Mar 2006, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
>=20
> > But as I understand the original recommendation, the change request=20
> > was to make the WLAN configuration a two step process,=20
> where the WTP=20
> > simply uses an index (base BSSID + WLAN ID) and the AC can=20
> assume what=20
> > the BSSID for the WLAN is. This is the simplest solution=20
> but does have=20
> > a requirement that the MAC addresses allocated on the WTP are=20
> > contiguous (which is really not an unrealistic requirement anyhow).
> >
> > Based on your comment below, it appears that you are ok with the=20
> > protocol as-is. Correct?
> >
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Michael Montemurro [mailto:michael.montemurro@siemens.com]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:34 AM
> >> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
> >> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> >>
> >> Pat,
> >>
> >> The idea behind the recommendation was that you could define
> >> a WLAN ID and map it to an VLAN/ESS/Broadcast domain and
> >> include it in the CAPWAP header for data traffic. In this
> >> way, the fast path would not have to interpret the BSSID to
> >> make forwarding decisions.
> >>
> >> I don't have particularily strong feelings for this feature.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> 	Mike
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> >>> Sent: March 28, 2006 1:06 PM
> >>> To: capwap
> >>> Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> >>>
> >>> The original request stated:
> >>>> Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly
> >>>> different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
> >>>> The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration
> >>> Request and
> >>>> the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would be used for
> >>> the WLAN
> >>>> as part of the Configuration Response.
> >>>> In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID
> >>> to WLAN ID
> >>>> mappings.
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to better understand the justification for making such a
> >>> change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for=20
> this feature?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pat Calhoun
> >>> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> >>> Cisco Systems
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> >>> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >>>
> >>> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >>>
> >>
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
>=20
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:26:14 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
Thread-Index: AcZSmA4SD1ofNB8IRE6y0T7H32jYzQAAP1/gAAIwSmA=
From: "Partha Narasimhan" <partha@arubanetworks.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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Pat

While the current mapping seems the simplest one to choose from a design
perspective, my earlier statement was to show that there are other
implementations out there that use a different one. This is about a WTP
vendor choosing a method to manage their MAC address space and how they
allocate addresses to their devices. IMHO, we should leave it to the WTP
vendor to use their own MAC address management method(s) rather than
impose one particular scheme on them from a protocol spec.=20

Based on a very quick glance, it is not clear to me why this would
require new messages or changes to the state machine (quite possible I
am missing something). It does seem to require adding a field or two to
some messages.

Thanks
partha
=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:57 AM
> To: Partha Narasimhan
> Cc: Michael Montemurro; capwap
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
>=20
> You are correct, Partha. My point is that it involves new messages
> that don't exist, possible changes to the state machine (not sure).
> So I'm trying to find out how much people care about this feature
> Before I go ahead and start writing significant text.
>=20
> So far, looks like you think it would be a neat idea, but not
> necessary (based on your comment "I am aware of implementations
> (not my own)". Correct?
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Partha Narasimhan [mailto:partha@arubanetworks.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:46 AM
> > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> > Cc: Michael Montemurro; capwap
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> >
> > I am aware of implementations (not my own) where the BSSID
> > map does not follow the mapping you have listed below. The
> > MAC addresses are contiguous except not in the LSB bits.
> > IMHO, it is cleaner to let the WTP manage that mapping and
> > notify the AC of the same. Which, if I understood it
> > correctly, is what the original comment was asking for.
> >
> > Thanks
> > partha
> >
> > On Tue, 28 Mar 2006, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> >
> > > But as I understand the original recommendation, the change
request
> > > was to make the WLAN configuration a two step process,
> > where the WTP
> > > simply uses an index (base BSSID + WLAN ID) and the AC can
> > assume what
> > > the BSSID for the WLAN is. This is the simplest solution
> > but does have
> > > a requirement that the MAC addresses allocated on the WTP are
> > > contiguous (which is really not an unrealistic requirement
anyhow).
> > >
> > > Based on your comment below, it appears that you are ok with the
> > > protocol as-is. Correct?
> > >
> > > Pat Calhoun
> > > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Michael Montemurro [mailto:michael.montemurro@siemens.com]
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:34 AM
> > >> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
> > >> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> > >>
> > >> Pat,
> > >>
> > >> The idea behind the recommendation was that you could define
> > >> a WLAN ID and map it to an VLAN/ESS/Broadcast domain and
> > >> include it in the CAPWAP header for data traffic. In this
> > >> way, the fast path would not have to interpret the BSSID to
> > >> make forwarding decisions.
> > >>
> > >> I don't have particularily strong feelings for this feature.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >>
> > >> 	Mike
> > >>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> > >>> Sent: March 28, 2006 1:06 PM
> > >>> To: capwap
> > >>> Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> > >>>
> > >>> The original request stated:
> > >>>> Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly
> > >>>> different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
> > >>>> The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration
> > >>> Request and
> > >>>> the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would be used for
> > >>> the WLAN
> > >>>> as part of the Configuration Response.
> > >>>> In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID
> > >>> to WLAN ID
> > >>>> mappings.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'd like to better understand the justification for making such
a
> > >>> change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for
> > this feature?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Pat Calhoun
> > >>> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> > >>> Cisco Systems
> > >>>
_________________________________________________________________
> > >>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please
visit:
> > >>> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >>>
> > >>> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > _________________________________________________________________
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> > >
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> > >
> >
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:20:50 +0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
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From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
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Pat,

I like the idea of specifying a default mode for WLAN configuration
because it helps implementers with an exact spec. In a slight change
from the request below, I would like to see the AC decide the WLAN ID
and its corresponding BSSID (for the WTP) and notify this mapping within
the Configuration Response.=20

Saravanan




-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:06 AM
To: capwap
Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required

The original request stated:
> Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a=20
> slightly different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.=20
> The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration=20
> Request and the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would=20
> be used for the WLAN as part of the Configuration Response.=20
> In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID to=20
> WLAN ID mappings.

I'd like to better understand the justification for making such
a change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for this
feature?
=20

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
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Hi Pat,

In the interest of clarity, I'm breaking out a few of the issues in this thread so we can deal with them individually. Comments inline below...

> > Historically, new _tunneling_ protocols are not NAT-able
> > until either the protocols are somehow extended or the market
> > reaches a critical mass, and middlebox vendors are forced by
> > their customers to accommodate the protocols.
> 
> Umm... L2TP was absolutely NAT-able from day one without any ALGs
> required
> on the NAT device. LWAPP used many of the concepts from this
> protocol in
> its early designs.
> 

I was overly general in my statement above - I agree that l2tp does do pretty well with NATs in general these days, though there actually were issues with some NAT implementations dropping fragments in the early days. But, those issues are not there for modern gear. 

We didn't start having problems with l2tp and NAT until we tried to combine it with IPsec. One of the primary reasons for this was that at that point, we began trying to manage two related datagram channels through a nat, not just one. Sound familiar?

If you read on to what I said just below, that gets to the heart of it:

> > LWAPP, as it stands, already runs over one port with a MUX
> > header. This, in conjunction with the built-in heartbeat
> > (echo request/reply), suggests that it should work as-is in
> > some simple NAT scenarios. However, the IPsec group dedicated
> > 2 RFCs to this problem, suggesting that it is not really all
> > that simple. Still, if you could share the details of the
> > scenarios in which it *is* currently working, that might help
> > to clarify how much remains to be done. If we are willing to
> > stick with one channel and a mux header, maybe we can deal
> > with simple nat-t in the base spec, and worry about more
> > complex scenarios in follow-on work.
>
> I don't argue that IPSec had multiple specs for this purpose, but
> again,
> L2TP designed their
> protocol from the get-go with NAT in mind - and it does work. If we
> decide to push this off,
> then we will end up with the multiple specs defining possible
> changes to
> the base spec to
> support NAT environments.
> 
> NAT was a recommendation by the eval team that I agree we need to
> pursue.

In actuality, the IPsec group dedicated *3* RFC's to this problem, if you include the ipsec-nat requirements doc (RFC 3715), and NAT'd l2tp/ipsec was one of problem areas those RFCs were trying to address. I think there are two critical distinctions we must recognize in order to get this dialog off of square 1:

- the current lwapp implementation is getting some traction in NAT environments right now precisely because it multiplexes data and control messages over one channel

- we have a proposal on the table to run these channels over separate datagram ports; this introduces all of the issues IPsec had to deal with; and the IPsec folks, after thinking long and hard about this, solved the problems by putting both channels onto one port (doh!)

Bottom line: we can probably solve most NAT traversal issues by simply using a mux header, rather than two ports, (and this ignores other issues we'll have with the two-port approach, which I'll address in another email)

Scott

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:36:22 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Partha Narasimhan" <partha@arubanetworks.com>
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> While the current mapping seems the simplest one to choose=20
> from a design perspective, my earlier statement was to show=20
> that there are other implementations out there that use a=20
> different one. This is about a WTP vendor choosing a method=20
> to manage their MAC address space and how they allocate=20
> addresses to their devices. IMHO, we should leave it to the=20
> WTP vendor to use their own MAC address management method(s)=20
> rather than impose one particular scheme on them from a=20
> protocol spec.=20

Which is why I'm hoping that such vendors speak up now. Frankly,
I have a hard time understanding the manufacturing process that
allows for non-contiguous MAC addresses to be assigned to a WTP.
Given the rarity of MAC addresses, vendors generally try to use=20
them as efficiently as possible.

So I would prefer we keep it simple vs. maximum flexibility, unless
vendors out there see a specific problem with this approach.

> Based on a very quick glance, it is not clear to me why this=20
> would require new messages or changes to the state machine=20
> (quite possible I am missing something). It does seem to=20
> require adding a field or two to some messages.

You may be right - it depends on how we end up implementing it.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
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From: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
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HI,

The use case is the following:

A manufacturer creates an AP that is designed to support
a single BSSID. Later on, new software is developed so that
the device can support multiple BSSIDs (and supports
CAPWAP.) The question is where does the device receive
the needed MAC addresses to support this increased
capability. One approach is to have the
AC manage a pool of MAC addresses that can be allocated
to WTPs (which were previously standalone APs). The
MAC addresses in the pool are typically a rare resource
not to be squandered. Thus, the AC might allocate them
to converted WTPs only as needed. If this approach
is followed, then the MAC address used for the BSSIDs
in the converted WTPs may not (and are probably not)
be contiguous.

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> > While the current mapping seems the simplest one to choose 
> > from a design perspective, my earlier statement was to show 
> > that there are other implementations out there that use a 
> > different one. This is about a WTP vendor choosing a method 
> > to manage their MAC address space and how they allocate 
> > addresses to their devices. IMHO, we should leave it to the 
> > WTP vendor to use their own MAC address management method(s) 
> > rather than impose one particular scheme on them from a 
> > protocol spec. 
> 
> Which is why I'm hoping that such vendors speak up now. Frankly,
> I have a hard time understanding the manufacturing process that
> allows for non-contiguous MAC addresses to be assigned to a WTP.
> Given the rarity of MAC addresses, vendors generally try to use 
> them as efficiently as possible.
> 
> So I would prefer we keep it simple vs. maximum flexibility, unless
> vendors out there see a specific problem with this approach.
> 
> > Based on a very quick glance, it is not clear to me why this 
> > would require new messages or changes to the state machine 
> > (quite possible I am missing something). It does seem to 
> > require adding a field or two to some messages.
> 
> You may be right - it depends on how we end up implementing it.
> 
> Pat Calhoun

Regards,
/david t. perkins

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
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1 "extra" MAC address is available for free by using the locally 
administrated bit.


Quoting "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>:

> HI,
>
> The use case is the following:
>
> A manufacturer creates an AP that is designed to support
> a single BSSID. Later on, new software is developed so that
> the device can support multiple BSSIDs (and supports
> CAPWAP.) The question is where does the device receive
> the needed MAC addresses to support this increased
> capability. One approach is to have the
> AC manage a pool of MAC addresses that can be allocated
> to WTPs (which were previously standalone APs). The
> MAC addresses in the pool are typically a rare resource
> not to be squandered. Thus, the AC might allocate them
> to converted WTPs only as needed. If this approach
> is followed, then the MAC address used for the BSSIDs
> in the converted WTPs may not (and are probably not)
> be contiguous.
>
> On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
>> > While the current mapping seems the simplest one to choose
>> > from a design perspective, my earlier statement was to show
>> > that there are other implementations out there that use a
>> > different one. This is about a WTP vendor choosing a method
>> > to manage their MAC address space and how they allocate
>> > addresses to their devices. IMHO, we should leave it to the
>> > WTP vendor to use their own MAC address management method(s)
>> > rather than impose one particular scheme on them from a
>> > protocol spec.
>>
>> Which is why I'm hoping that such vendors speak up now. Frankly,
>> I have a hard time understanding the manufacturing process that
>> allows for non-contiguous MAC addresses to be assigned to a WTP.
>> Given the rarity of MAC addresses, vendors generally try to use
>> them as efficiently as possible.
>>
>> So I would prefer we keep it simple vs. maximum flexibility, unless
>> vendors out there see a specific problem with this approach.
>>
>> > Based on a very quick glance, it is not clear to me why this
>> > would require new messages or changes to the state machine
>> > (quite possible I am missing something). It does seem to
>> > require adding a field or two to some messages.
>>
>> You may be right - it depends on how we end up implementing it.
>>
>> Pat Calhoun
>
> Regards,
> /david t. perkins
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
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Subject: split AC-WTP tunneling (was RE:[Capwap] a necessary and sufficient
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A few days ago I suggested that we should not be considering split tunneling in the base draft. Below is a quote, including Pat's response. I followed up previously, but I want to spend a bit more energy on this:

>> - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a different 
>> endpoint than the control channel; this has definite security 
>> implications, and probably requires a secure inter-AC protocol, in 
>> addition to its own state machine loop(s). It's a corner case that 
>> many won't care about.
>
>Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale deployments 
>and the protocol supports it already.

I've included a diagram in a text file attachment (sorry, but my webmail interface mangles ascii drawings). In the diagram, I've include a NAT cloud for good measure, but what I really want to draw attention to first is the inter-ac communication this requires.

The proposal is to allow the AC with which the control channel is established to tell the WTP to terminate its data channel on a different AC. I think this is a rather curious construct, since control channel overhead is relatively light, and it seems like the whole session could be pushed to AC-2 just as easily (isn't this sort of like load balancing?), but apparently some folks really want this functionality.

I've proposed not supporting this in the base spec, deferring it until later (assuming it turns out to be useful, of which I remain unconvinced). One reason is that it requires a back-end inter-AC protocol, and this MUST be secured - this is currently out of scope, and bringing it into scope for the base protocol will just about guarantee that we won't have interoperable implementations before *next* year at this time.

A secondary issue pertains to the complexity this introduces into the state machines in both ACs and the WTP. AC-1 must make sure that AC-2 can "handle" the WTP before telling the WTP to use AC-2. What if AC-2 can't take the load? And what about race conditions - what if WTP sends data before AC-2 is ready, or after AC-1 told AC-2 to tear down the session? And if there's a NAT, what if one channel is lost but the other one is still there? Or AC-2 turns out to be unreachable for some reason? Or AC-2 can't reach WTP?

This is just stream-of-consiousness rambling after 30 seconds of thinking about it - I'm sure there's plenty more complexity where that came from. This looks like a minority solution that will take lots of time plus a charter change to address. I suggest we defer this.

To be very clear, the fact that something is not in the base spec does not mean a vendor is not free to differentiate by adding the feature using VSA's or some such approach.

Scott

-----------------------------243542962715479
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="CapwapSplitTunnel.txt"
Content-Type: text/plain; name=CapwapSplitTunnel.txt; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit






                                                    +----------+
                                     +------------->|   AC-1   |
+-------+ control   (========)      /               +----------+
|       |<-------->(          )<---/                      ^
|  WTP  |          (   NAT    )                           | binding ctrl
|       |<-------->(          )<---\                      |  protocol?
+-------+  data     (========)      \                     v
                                     \              +----------+  
                                      +------------>|   AC-2   |
                                                    +----------+ 
-----------------------------243542962715479
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

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HI,

I haven't seen any vendors that support the architecture
as shown on your diagram. That is,
  a) having the control channel going to one AC
  b) having the tunneled data channel going directly
     to another AC

I have seen a product that supports multi-ACs where 
the data tunnel from a WTP is further tunneled from
the AC where the control channel is terminated to
another AC that supports the VLAN where the data
is needed to be delivered.

On first look at what you have described, my reaction is
that this seems to add more cost than the cost
savings by tunneling the data directly to another AC
instead of having the data tunneled between the ACs.


On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, Scott G. Kelly wrote:
> A few days ago I suggested that we should not be considering split tunneling in the base draft. Below is a quote, including Pat's response. I followed up previously, but I want to spend a bit more energy on this:
> 
> >> - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a different 
> >> endpoint than the control channel; this has definite security 
> >> implications, and probably requires a secure inter-AC protocol, in 
> >> addition to its own state machine loop(s). It's a corner case that 
> >> many won't care about.
> >
> >Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale deployments 
> >and the protocol supports it already.
> 
> I've included a diagram in a text file attachment (sorry, but my webmail interface mangles ascii drawings). In the diagram, I've include a NAT cloud for good measure, but what I really want to draw attention to first is the inter-ac communication this requires.
> 
> The proposal is to allow the AC with which the control channel is established to tell the WTP to terminate its data channel on a different AC. I think this is a rather curious construct, since control channel overhead is relatively light, and it seems like the whole session could be pushed to AC-2 just as easily (isn't this sort of like load balancing?), but apparently some folks really want this functionality.
> 
> I've proposed not supporting this in the base spec, deferring it until later (assuming it turns out to be useful, of which I remain unconvinced). One reason is that it requires a back-end inter-AC protocol, and this MUST be secured - this is currently out of scope, and bringing it into scope for the base protocol will just about guarantee that we won't have interoperable implementations before *next* year at this time.
> 
> A secondary issue pertains to the complexity this introduces into the state machines in both ACs and the WTP. AC-1 must make sure that AC-2 can "handle" the WTP before telling the WTP to use AC-2. What if AC-2 can't take the load? And what about race conditions - what if WTP sends data before AC-2 is ready, or after AC-1 told AC-2 to tear down the session? And if there's a NAT, what if one channel is lost but the other one is still there? Or AC-2 turns out to be unreachable for some reason? Or AC-2 can't reach WTP?
> 
> This is just stream-of-consiousness rambling after 30 seconds of thinking about it - I'm sure there's plenty more complexity where that came from. This looks like a minority solution that will take lots of time plus a charter change to address. I suggest we defer this.
> 
> To be very clear, the fact that something is not in the base spec does not mean a vendor is not free to differentiate by adding the feature using VSA's or some such approach.
> 
> Scott
> 
Regards,
/david t. perkins

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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
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So if I understand properly, you'd like the AC to also include the
BSSID the WTP should use, in addition to the WLAN ID?

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:21 PM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
>=20
> Pat,
>=20
> I like the idea of specifying a default mode for WLAN=20
> configuration because it helps implementers with an exact=20
> spec. In a slight change from the request below, I would like=20
> to see the AC decide the WLAN ID and its corresponding BSSID=20
> (for the WTP) and notify this mapping within the=20
> Configuration Response.=20
>=20
> Saravanan
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:06 AM
> To: capwap
> Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
>=20
> The original request stated:
> > Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly=20
> > different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
> > The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration=20
> Request and=20
> > the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would be used for=20
> the WLAN=20
> > as part of the Configuration Response.
> > In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID=20
> to WLAN ID=20
> > mappings.
>=20
> I'd like to better understand the justification for making=20
> such a change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for=20
> this feature?
> =20
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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Yes, Pat.



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,"capwap" 
<capwap@frascone.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:36:22 -0800

So if I understand properly, you'd like the AC to also include the
BSSID the WTP should use, in addition to the WLAN ID?

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems



 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]
 > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:21 PM
 > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
 > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
 >
 > Pat,
 >
 > I like the idea of specifying a default mode for WLAN
 > configuration because it helps implementers with an exact
 > spec. In a slight change from the request below, I would like
 > to see the AC decide the WLAN ID and its corresponding BSSID
 > (for the WTP) and notify this mapping within the
 > Configuration Response.
 >
 > Saravanan
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
 > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:06 AM
 > To: capwap
 > Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
 >
 > The original request stated:
 > > Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly
 > > different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
 > > The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration
 > Request and
 > > the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would be used for
 > the WLAN
 > > as part of the Configuration Response.
 > > In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID
 > to WLAN ID
 > > mappings.
 >
 > I'd like to better understand the justification for making
 > such a change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for
 > this feature?
 >
 >
 > Pat Calhoun
 > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
 > Cisco Systems
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
 > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
 >
 > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
 >
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:44:07 +0530
From: Leo Yao <yaoxi@huawei-3com.com>
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Hi all,
The capwap ac discory phase should add a new phase to get the actual path
MTU, to make sure the packets should not be fragged between STA to AP & AC.
Regards,
Leo Yao

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Today's Topics:

   1. nat-t issues (was Re: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient
      capwap	base protocol) (Scott G. Kelly)
   2. RE: Issue 61: Justification Required (Pat Calhoun (pacalhou))
   3. RE: Issue 61: Justification Required (Pat Calhoun (pacalhou))
   4. RE: Issue 61: Justification Required (David T. Perkins)
   5. RE: Issue 61: Justification Required (Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com)
   6. split AC-WTP tunneling (was RE:[Capwap] a necessary and
      sufficient	capwap base protocol) (Scott G. Kelly)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:01:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: nat-t issues (was Re: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient
	capwap	base protocol)
To: Pat Calhoun <pcalhoun@cisco.com>, capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
Message-ID:
	
<6688958.1143655317774.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi Pat,

In the interest of clarity, I'm breaking out a few of the issues in this
thread so we can deal with them individually. Comments inline below...

> > Historically, new _tunneling_ protocols are not NAT-able
> > until either the protocols are somehow extended or the market
> > reaches a critical mass, and middlebox vendors are forced by
> > their customers to accommodate the protocols.
> 
> Umm... L2TP was absolutely NAT-able from day one without any ALGs
> required
> on the NAT device. LWAPP used many of the concepts from this
> protocol in
> its early designs.
> 

I was overly general in my statement above - I agree that l2tp does do
pretty well with NATs in general these days, though there actually were
issues with some NAT implementations dropping fragments in the early days.
But, those issues are not there for modern gear. 

We didn't start having problems with l2tp and NAT until we tried to combine
it with IPsec. One of the primary reasons for this was that at that point,
we began trying to manage two related datagram channels through a nat, not
just one. Sound familiar?

If you read on to what I said just below, that gets to the heart of it:

> > LWAPP, as it stands, already runs over one port with a MUX
> > header. This, in conjunction with the built-in heartbeat
> > (echo request/reply), suggests that it should work as-is in
> > some simple NAT scenarios. However, the IPsec group dedicated
> > 2 RFCs to this problem, suggesting that it is not really all
> > that simple. Still, if you could share the details of the
> > scenarios in which it *is* currently working, that might help
> > to clarify how much remains to be done. If we are willing to
> > stick with one channel and a mux header, maybe we can deal
> > with simple nat-t in the base spec, and worry about more
> > complex scenarios in follow-on work.
>
> I don't argue that IPSec had multiple specs for this purpose, but
> again,
> L2TP designed their
> protocol from the get-go with NAT in mind - and it does work. If we
> decide to push this off,
> then we will end up with the multiple specs defining possible
> changes to
> the base spec to
> support NAT environments.
> 
> NAT was a recommendation by the eval team that I agree we need to
> pursue.

In actuality, the IPsec group dedicated *3* RFC's to this problem, if you
include the ipsec-nat requirements doc (RFC 3715), and NAT'd l2tp/ipsec was
one of problem areas those RFCs were trying to address. I think there are
two critical distinctions we must recognize in order to get this dialog off
of square 1:

- the current lwapp implementation is getting some traction in NAT
environments right now precisely because it multiplexes data and control
messages over one channel

- we have a proposal on the table to run these channels over separate
datagram ports; this introduces all of the issues IPsec had to deal with;
and the IPsec folks, after thinking long and hard about this, solved the
problems by putting both channels onto one port (doh!)

Bottom line: we can probably solve most NAT traversal issues by simply using
a mux header, rather than two ports, (and this ignores other issues we'll
have with the two-port approach, which I'll address in another email)

Scott



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:36:22 -0800
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
To: "Partha Narasimhan" <partha@arubanetworks.com>
Cc: capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
Message-ID:
	
<4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A201A57643@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"


> While the current mapping seems the simplest one to choose 
> from a design perspective, my earlier statement was to show 
> that there are other implementations out there that use a 
> different one. This is about a WTP vendor choosing a method 
> to manage their MAC address space and how they allocate 
> addresses to their devices. IMHO, we should leave it to the 
> WTP vendor to use their own MAC address management method(s) 
> rather than impose one particular scheme on them from a 
> protocol spec. 

Which is why I'm hoping that such vendors speak up now. Frankly,
I have a hard time understanding the manufacturing process that
allows for non-contiguous MAC addresses to be assigned to a WTP.
Given the rarity of MAC addresses, vendors generally try to use 
them as efficiently as possible.

So I would prefer we keep it simple vs. maximum flexibility, unless
vendors out there see a specific problem with this approach.

> Based on a very quick glance, it is not clear to me why this 
> would require new messages or changes to the state machine 
> (quite possible I am missing something). It does seem to 
> require adding a field or two to some messages.

You may be right - it depends on how we end up implementing it.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:36:22 -0800
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
	"capwap" <capwap@frascone.com>
Message-ID:
	
<4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A201A57644@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

So if I understand properly, you'd like the AC to also include the
BSSID the WTP should use, in addition to the WLAN ID?

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:21 PM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> 
> Pat,
> 
> I like the idea of specifying a default mode for WLAN 
> configuration because it helps implementers with an exact 
> spec. In a slight change from the request below, I would like 
> to see the AC decide the WLAN ID and its corresponding BSSID 
> (for the WTP) and notify this mapping within the 
> Configuration Response. 
> 
> Saravanan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:06 AM
> To: capwap
> Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> 
> The original request stated:
> > Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly 
> > different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
> > The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration 
> Request and 
> > the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would be used for 
> the WLAN 
> > as part of the Configuration Response.
> > In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID 
> to WLAN ID 
> > mappings.
> 
> I'd like to better understand the justification for making 
> such a change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for 
> this feature?
>  
> 
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> 
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> 


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:51:54 -0800 (PST)
From: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
Cc: capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
Message-ID:
	<Pine.LNX.4.10.10603291041071.26409-100000@shell4.bayarea.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

HI,

The use case is the following:

A manufacturer creates an AP that is designed to support
a single BSSID. Later on, new software is developed so that
the device can support multiple BSSIDs (and supports
CAPWAP.) The question is where does the device receive
the needed MAC addresses to support this increased
capability. One approach is to have the
AC manage a pool of MAC addresses that can be allocated
to WTPs (which were previously standalone APs). The
MAC addresses in the pool are typically a rare resource
not to be squandered. Thus, the AC might allocate them
to converted WTPs only as needed. If this approach
is followed, then the MAC address used for the BSSIDs
in the converted WTPs may not (and are probably not)
be contiguous.

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> > While the current mapping seems the simplest one to choose 
> > from a design perspective, my earlier statement was to show 
> > that there are other implementations out there that use a 
> > different one. This is about a WTP vendor choosing a method 
> > to manage their MAC address space and how they allocate 
> > addresses to their devices. IMHO, we should leave it to the 
> > WTP vendor to use their own MAC address management method(s) 
> > rather than impose one particular scheme on them from a 
> > protocol spec. 
> 
> Which is why I'm hoping that such vendors speak up now. Frankly,
> I have a hard time understanding the manufacturing process that
> allows for non-contiguous MAC addresses to be assigned to a WTP.
> Given the rarity of MAC addresses, vendors generally try to use 
> them as efficiently as possible.
> 
> So I would prefer we keep it simple vs. maximum flexibility, unless
> vendors out there see a specific problem with this approach.
> 
> > Based on a very quick glance, it is not clear to me why this 
> > would require new messages or changes to the state machine 
> > (quite possible I am missing something). It does seem to 
> > require adding a field or two to some messages.
> 
> You may be right - it depends on how we end up implementing it.
> 
> Pat Calhoun

Regards,
/david t. perkins



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:04:51 +0100
From: Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com
Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
To: capwap@frascone.com
Message-ID: <20060329210451.4u012s8r4c0ok4wo@webmail.u4eatech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=ISO-8859-1;	format="flowed"


1 "extra" MAC address is available for free by using the locally 
administrated bit.


Quoting "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>:

> HI,
>
> The use case is the following:
>
> A manufacturer creates an AP that is designed to support
> a single BSSID. Later on, new software is developed so that
> the device can support multiple BSSIDs (and supports
> CAPWAP.) The question is where does the device receive
> the needed MAC addresses to support this increased
> capability. One approach is to have the
> AC manage a pool of MAC addresses that can be allocated
> to WTPs (which were previously standalone APs). The
> MAC addresses in the pool are typically a rare resource
> not to be squandered. Thus, the AC might allocate them
> to converted WTPs only as needed. If this approach
> is followed, then the MAC address used for the BSSIDs
> in the converted WTPs may not (and are probably not)
> be contiguous.
>
> On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
>> > While the current mapping seems the simplest one to choose
>> > from a design perspective, my earlier statement was to show
>> > that there are other implementations out there that use a
>> > different one. This is about a WTP vendor choosing a method
>> > to manage their MAC address space and how they allocate
>> > addresses to their devices. IMHO, we should leave it to the
>> > WTP vendor to use their own MAC address management method(s)
>> > rather than impose one particular scheme on them from a
>> > protocol spec.
>>
>> Which is why I'm hoping that such vendors speak up now. Frankly,
>> I have a hard time understanding the manufacturing process that
>> allows for non-contiguous MAC addresses to be assigned to a WTP.
>> Given the rarity of MAC addresses, vendors generally try to use
>> them as efficiently as possible.
>>
>> So I would prefer we keep it simple vs. maximum flexibility, unless
>> vendors out there see a specific problem with this approach.
>>
>> > Based on a very quick glance, it is not clear to me why this
>> > would require new messages or changes to the state machine
>> > (quite possible I am missing something). It does seem to
>> > require adding a field or two to some messages.
>>
>> You may be right - it depends on how we end up implementing it.
>>
>> Pat Calhoun
>
> Regards,
> /david t. perkins
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>





------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:30:11 -0500 (EST)
From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: split AC-WTP tunneling (was RE:[Capwap] a necessary and
	sufficient	capwap base protocol)
To: capwap <capwap@frascone.com>, Pat Calhoun <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
Message-ID:
	
<16499866.1143660611147.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

A few days ago I suggested that we should not be considering split tunneling
in the base draft. Below is a quote, including Pat's response. I followed up
previously, but I want to spend a bit more energy on this:

>> - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a different 
>> endpoint than the control channel; this has definite security 
>> implications, and probably requires a secure inter-AC protocol, in 
>> addition to its own state machine loop(s). It's a corner case that 
>> many won't care about.
>
>Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale deployments 
>and the protocol supports it already.

I've included a diagram in a text file attachment (sorry, but my webmail
interface mangles ascii drawings). In the diagram, I've include a NAT cloud
for good measure, but what I really want to draw attention to first is the
inter-ac communication this requires.

The proposal is to allow the AC with which the control channel is
established to tell the WTP to terminate its data channel on a different AC.
I think this is a rather curious construct, since control channel overhead
is relatively light, and it seems like the whole session could be pushed to
AC-2 just as easily (isn't this sort of like load balancing?), but
apparently some folks really want this functionality.

I've proposed not supporting this in the base spec, deferring it until later
(assuming it turns out to be useful, of which I remain unconvinced). One
reason is that it requires a back-end inter-AC protocol, and this MUST be
secured - this is currently out of scope, and bringing it into scope for the
base protocol will just about guarantee that we won't have interoperable
implementations before *next* year at this time.

A secondary issue pertains to the complexity this introduces into the state
machines in both ACs and the WTP. AC-1 must make sure that AC-2 can "handle"
the WTP before telling the WTP to use AC-2. What if AC-2 can't take the
load? And what about race conditions - what if WTP sends data before AC-2 is
ready, or after AC-1 told AC-2 to tear down the session? And if there's a
NAT, what if one channel is lost but the other one is still there? Or AC-2
turns out to be unreachable for some reason? Or AC-2 can't reach WTP?

This is just stream-of-consiousness rambling after 30 seconds of thinking
about it - I'm sure there's plenty more complexity where that came from.
This looks like a minority solution that will take lots of time plus a
charter change to address. I suggest we defer this.

To be very clear, the fact that something is not in the base spec does not
mean a vendor is not free to differentiate by adding the feature using VSA's
or some such approach.

Scott
-------------- next part --------------





                                                    +----------+
                                     +------------->|   AC-1   |
+-------+ control   (========)      /               +----------+
|       |<-------->(          )<---/                      ^
|  WTP  |          (   NAT    )                           | binding ctrl
|       |<-------->(          )<---\                      |  protocol?
+-------+  data     (========)      \                     v
                                     \              +----------+  
                                      +------------>|   AC-2   |
                                                    +----------+ 

------------------------------

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:07:02 +0500
From: zhaoyujin 31390 <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>
Subject: RE:RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
To: Saravanan Govindan <saravanang@hotmail.com>
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Hi all:

  I think current protocol mechanism is ok. 

  The map of WLAN ID and BSSID is very simple, and it is only an offset from based BSSID.

  The WLAN ID length is shorter than BSSID, and easy to used than BSSID (It is a MAC address).

  Another if keep BSSID on AC is based on vendor, and it is out of protocol scope.

Best regard
Michael



> Yes, Pat.
> 
> 
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
> To: "Saravanan Govindan" 
> <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,"capwap" 
> <capwap@frascone.com>
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:36:22 -0800
> 
> So if I understand properly, you'd like the AC to also include the
> BSSID the WTP should use, in addition to the WLAN ID?
> 
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Saravanan Govindan [Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:21 PM
> > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> >
> > Pat,
> >
> > I like the idea of specifying a default mode for WLAN
> > configuration because it helps implementers with an exact
> > spec. In a slight change from the request below, I would like
> > to see the AC decide the WLAN ID and its corresponding BSSID
> > (for the WTP) and notify this mapping within the
> > Configuration Response.
> >
> > Saravanan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:06 AM
> > To: capwap
> > Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> >
> > The original request stated:
> > > Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly
> > > different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
> > > The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration
> > Request and
> > > the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would be used for
> > the WLAN
> > > as part of the Configuration Response.
> > > In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID
> > to WLAN ID
> > > mappings.
> >
> > I'd like to better understand the justification for making
> > such a change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for
> > this feature?
> >
> >
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> > Cisco Systems
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
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From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
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Currently, there is a vendor-specific payload defined for capwap (section 4.3.2.1.1). The struct definition would look like this:

struct vsp
{
    uint32_t  VendorId;
    uint16_t  ElementId;
    uint8_t   Value[];
};

Is there some reason not to have a length field following the value, so that these can be stepped over if desired?

--Scott

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Should have said "length field following the ElementId", not "...following the value"

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
>Sent: Mar 30, 2006 1:10 PM
>To: capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
>Subject: [Capwap] VSPs in capwap
>
>Currently, there is a vendor-specific payload defined for capwap (section 4.3.2.1.1). The struct definition would look like this:
>
>struct vsp
>{
>    uint32_t  VendorId;
>    uint16_t  ElementId;
>    uint8_t   Value[];
>};
>
>Is there some reason not to have a length field following the value, so that these can be stepped over if desired?
>
>--Scott
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>
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Hi Pat,

The following capwap message elements are currently defined with duplicate values:

- AC Address and Result Code (2)

- 802.11 supported rates and 802.11 rate set (16)

- Duplicate IPv4 address and Duplicate IPv6 address (77)

Are these typos, or do new unique values need to be assigned?

Scott

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--===============1640974036==
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C65462.A698AEEE"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C65462.A698AEEE
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	charset="us-ascii"
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Dear All,

=20

I'd like to re-introduce text proposal for this issue. Following from
Richard Gwee's presentation in IETF65, it is clear that overhead is
reduced by combining statistics information with Echo Request exchanges.


=20

=20

----oooo----

=20

In section 6.1 Echo Request, introduce a "Statistics" message element
with the following fields.

=20

      0                   1                   2                   3

      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |          WTP Load             |     WTP Transmit Queue        |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

     |    Channel Interference       |          Congestion           |

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=20

=20

Type: TBD

=20

WTP Load: A 16-bit value specifying the load (frames/sec) exchanged by
the WTP.

=20

WTP Transmit Queue: A 16-bit value specifying the prevailing queue level
as a=20

     portion of total queue size.

=20

Channel Interference: A 16-bit value specifying SINR (dB) monitored by
the WTP.

=20

Congestion: A 16-bit value specifying the congestion experienced by the
WTP.

=20

=20

----xxxx----

=20

=20

Cheers,


Saravanan


------_=_NextPart_001_01C65462.A698AEEE
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	charset="us-ascii"
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<html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Dear =
All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>I&#8217;d like to re-introduce text
proposal for this issue. Following from Richard Gwee&#8217;s =
presentation in
IETF65, it is clear that overhead is reduced by combining statistics
information with Echo Request exchanges. </span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----oooo----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>In section 6.1 Echo Request, =
introduce a
&#8220;Statistics&#8221; message element with the following =
fields.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0 1 =
2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP =
Load&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTP Transmit Queue
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Channel Interference&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Congestion&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
|<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Type: =
TBD<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>WTP Load: A 16-bit value specifying =
the
load (frames/sec) exchanged by the WTP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>WTP Transmit Queue: A 16-bit value =
specifying
the prevailing queue level as a <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; portion of =
total
queue size.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Channel Interference: A 16-bit =
value
specifying SINR (dB) monitored by the WTP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Congestion: A 16-bit value =
specifying the
congestion experienced by the WTP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----xxxx----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

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Thread-Topic: WTP Mac Type negotiation.
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From: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C6546C.F34CA81D
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear All,

=20

Following from Sujay G's suggestion, this is text for mode selection in
the case where a WTP supports both split-MAC and local-MAC modes and can
also support the different tunnel options.=20

=20

Cheers,

Saravanan

=20

=20

=20

=20

----oooo----

<NOTE>=20

Introduce how operational mode is selected in Section 2 (Protocol
Overview) [Paragraph 3, after 2nd sentence]

<END NOTE>

=20

"The WTPs specify their operational modes in their Discovery Request
message, to which the responding AC selects particular operational modes
and specifies them in the Discovery Response message."

=20

=20

<NOTE>=20

Then in Section 5.2 (Discovery Response) [After Paragraph 2, include
following paragraph]

<END NOTE>

=20

=20

" In the case where a requesting WTP is capable of both Local-MAC and
Split-MAC operations (MAC Type [Section 5.1.4] value "2") or where a WTP
is capable of all types of bridging (Frame Type [Section 5.1.5] value
"7"), AC determines the particular operating mode based on the
following;

=20

i. Control-bias Mode

=20

In this mode, the AC has greater control of WTP operations. So the AC
instructs the requesting WTP to operate in Split-MAC mode.=20

=20

ii. Load-bias Mode

=20

In this mode, the AC reduces processing load of WTP operations. So the
AC instructs the requesting WTP to operate in Local-MAC mode. "

=20

=20

<NOTE>

Introduce Operation Mode message element as Section 5.2.6 (Operating
Mode).

<END NOTE>

=20

=20

5.2.6.   Operating Mode

=20

   The Operating Mode message element specifies the mode of operation
for a WTP capable of =20

   operating in both Local-MAC and Split-MAC modes.=20

=20

      0
      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |Operating Mode |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
=20
   Type:  TBD
=20
   Length:  1
=20
   Operating Mode:  The selected mode for WTP operation
=20
        0: Control-bias mode, WTP operates in Split-MAC mode
=20
        1: Load-bias mode, WTP operates in Local-MAC mode=20

=20

----XXXX----

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:32 PM
To: capwap@frascone.com
Cc: Saravanan Govindan
Subject: WTP Mac Type negotiation.

=20

Importance: Normal

X-Priority: 3 (Normal)

X-MSMail-priority: Normal

=20

=20

The CAPWAP does not specify as to how the selection is made if the WTP=20

Can support both Modes Split and Local and Frame (Tunnel ) type.

=20

The WTP specifies MAC Type and Frame Type  in Discovery Request message,

but if it supports=20

both modes , there is no provision for the AC to select the working

mode.

=20

=20

Recommendation :

1. Add the WTP mode and WTP tunnel type messages  in the

configure response ? Which  makes it binding=20

agnostic.

=20

2. The logic for choosing WTP mode type on the AC could depend on the

load, and user policy.

=20

Solicit comments.

=20

Regds,

Sujay

=20

=20


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Dear =
All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Following from =
Sujay G's suggestion,
this is text for mode selection in the case where a WTP supports both =
split-MAC
and local-MAC modes and can also support the different tunnel options. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Cheers,<br>
<br>
Saravanan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
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<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>----oooo----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&lt;NOTE&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Introduce how =
operational
mode is selected in Section 2 (Protocol Overview) [Paragraph 3, after =
2nd
sentence]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&lt;END =
NOTE&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&quot;The WTPs =
specify
their operational modes in their Discovery Request message, to which the
responding AC selects particular operational modes and specifies them in =
the
Discovery Response message.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&lt;NOTE&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Then in Section =
5.2 (Discovery
Response) [After Paragraph 2, include following =
paragraph]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&lt;END =
NOTE&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&quot; In the =
case where
a requesting WTP is capable of both Local-MAC and Split-MAC operations =
(MAC
Type [Section 5.1.4] value &quot;2&quot;) or where a WTP is capable of =
all
types of bridging (Frame Type [Section 5.1.5] value &quot;7&quot;), AC
determines the particular operating mode based on the =
following;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>i. Control-bias =
Mode<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>In this mode, =
the AC has
greater control of WTP operations. So the AC instructs the requesting =
WTP to
operate in Split-MAC mode. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>ii. Load-bias =
Mode<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>In this mode, =
the AC
reduces processing load of WTP operations. So the AC instructs the =
requesting WTP
to operate in Local-MAC mode. &quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&lt;NOTE&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>Introduce =
Operation Mode
message element as Section 5.2.6 (Operating =
Mode).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&lt;END =
NOTE&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>5.2.6.&nbsp;&nbsp;
Operating Mode<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The =
Operating
Mode message element specifies the mode of operation for a WTP capable =
of &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
operating in
both Local-MAC and Split-MAC modes. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
0<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 =
7<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |Operating Mode =
|<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Type:&nbsp; TBD<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Length:&nbsp; 1<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Operating Mode:&nbsp; The selected mode for WTP =
operation<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0: Control-bias =
mode, WTP operates in Split-MAC =
mode<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console"'> =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1: Load-bias =
mode, WTP operates in Local-MAC mode <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Lucida Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console"'>----XXXX----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: sujay [mailto:sujayg@huawei.com] <br>
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:32 PM<br>
To: capwap@frascone.com<br>
Cc: Saravanan Govindan<br>
Subject: WTP Mac Type negotiation.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>Importance: <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Normal</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>X-Priority: 3 (<st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Normal</st1:place></st1:City>)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>X-MSMail-priority: <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Normal</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>The CAPWAP does not specify as to how the selection is made if =
the WTP <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>Can support both Modes Split and Local and Frame (Tunnel ) =
type.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>The WTP specifies MAC Type and Frame Type&nbsp; in Discovery =
Request
message,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>but if it supports <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>both modes , there is no provision for the AC to select the =
working<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>mode.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>Recommendation :<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>1. Add the WTP mode and WTP tunnel type messages&nbsp; in =
the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>configure response ? Which&nbsp; makes it binding =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>agnostic.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>2. The logic for choosing WTP mode type on the AC could depend =
on the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>load, and user policy.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>Solicit comments.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>Regds,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>Sujay<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

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$ 4 C 92,000 at a 3 s ,21% in K tere x st - onl 0 y=20
$ 2 g 48,000 at a 3 S ,36% fi m xed - rat b e=20
$ 1 p 98,000 at a 3,5 E 5% va w riable - rat R e=20
 =20
Hu 8 rry, when these de 4 aI u s are gone, they are gone !
 =20
Don't worry about approva K l, your cred G it will not di z squ T alify
you !=20
 =20
V C isi 6 t our s x ite <http://geocities.com/LawarloJohnntr/>=20
 =20
Sincerely, Sadaf Moncayo
 =20
Ap b pr 5 oval Manager


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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 31 10:04:15 2006
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:03:39 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
Thread-Index: AcZTeLOfprzwbpVlSDOt8Bk03SVLoQBW46gA
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Saravanan Govindan" <saravanang@hotmail.com>,
	<Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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With the understanding that the WTP would have a contiguous range of MAC
addresses.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saravanan Govindan [mailto:saravanang@hotmail.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 1:35 PM
> To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
> Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
>=20
> Yes, Pat.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
> To: "Saravanan Govindan"=20
> <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,"capwap"=20
> <capwap@frascone.com>
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:36:22 -0800
>=20
> So if I understand properly, you'd like the AC to also=20
> include the BSSID the WTP should use, in addition to the WLAN ID?
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>=20
>=20
>=20
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: Saravanan Govindan=20
> [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]
>  > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:21 PM  > To: Pat Calhoun=20
> (pacalhou); capwap  > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61:=20
> Justification Required  >  > Pat,  >  > I like the idea of=20
> specifying a default mode for WLAN  > configuration because=20
> it helps implementers with an exact  > spec. In a slight=20
> change from the request below, I would like  > to see the AC=20
> decide the WLAN ID and its corresponding BSSID  > (for the=20
> WTP) and notify this mapping within the  > Configuration Response.
>  >
>  > Saravanan
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com] =20
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:06 AM  > To: capwap  >=20
> Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required  >  > The=20
> original request stated:
>  > > Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a=20
> slightly  > > different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
>  > > The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration=20
>  > Request and  > > the WTP would respond with the BSSID that=20
> would be used for  > the WLAN  > > as part of the=20
> Configuration Response.
>  > > In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining=20
> BSSID  > to WLAN ID  > > mappings.
>  >
>  > I'd like to better understand the justification for making=20
>  > such a change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons,=20
> for  > this feature?
>  >
>  >
>  > Pat Calhoun
>  > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit  > Cisco Systems  >=20
> _________________________________________________________________
>  > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
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> Get an advanced look at the new version of MSN Messenger.=20
> http://messenger.msn.com.sg/Beta/Default.aspx
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Subject: RE: [Capwap] RE: Capwap Digest, Vol 5, Issue 49
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:04:23 -0800
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Thread-Topic: [Capwap] RE: Capwap Digest, Vol 5, Issue 49
Thread-Index: AcZTuO2CZLtk1NMrTMaXERfWRXY2PABG2dXg
From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Leo Yao" <yaoxi@huawei-3com.com>, <capwap@frascone.com>
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This implies a change on the STA, which is out of scope of CAPWAP. We
have no means to inform a station of the MTU to use over the air.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leo Yao [mailto:yaoxi@huawei-3com.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:14 PM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: [Capwap] RE: Capwap Digest, Vol 5, Issue 49
>=20
> Hi all,
> The capwap ac discory phase should add a new phase to get the=20
> actual path MTU, to make sure the packets should not be=20
> fragged between STA to AP & AC.
> Regards,
> Leo Yao
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: capwap-request@frascone.com [mailto:capwap-request@frascone.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:01 AM
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: Capwap Digest, Vol 5, Issue 49
>=20
> Send Capwap mailing list submissions to
> 	capwap@frascone.com
>=20
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	capwap-request@frascone.com
>=20
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	capwap-owner@frascone.com
>=20
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more=20
> specific than "Re: Contents of Capwap digest..."
>=20
>=20
> Today's Topics:
>=20
>    1. nat-t issues (was Re: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient
>       capwap	base protocol) (Scott G. Kelly)
>    2. RE: Issue 61: Justification Required (Pat Calhoun (pacalhou))
>    3. RE: Issue 61: Justification Required (Pat Calhoun (pacalhou))
>    4. RE: Issue 61: Justification Required (David T. Perkins)
>    5. RE: Issue 61: Justification Required=20
> (Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com)
>    6. split AC-WTP tunneling (was RE:[Capwap] a necessary and
>       sufficient	capwap base protocol) (Scott G. Kelly)
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:01:57 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
> Subject: nat-t issues (was Re: [Capwap] a necessary and sufficient
> 	capwap	base protocol)
> To: Pat Calhoun <pcalhoun@cisco.com>, capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
> Message-ID:
> =09
> <6688958.1143655317774.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.eart
> hlink.net>
> =09
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii
>=20
> Hi Pat,
>=20
> In the interest of clarity, I'm breaking out a few of the=20
> issues in this thread so we can deal with them individually.=20
> Comments inline below...
>=20
> > > Historically, new _tunneling_ protocols are not NAT-able until=20
> > > either the protocols are somehow extended or the market reaches a=20
> > > critical mass, and middlebox vendors are forced by their=20
> customers=20
> > > to accommodate the protocols.
> >=20
> > Umm... L2TP was absolutely NAT-able from day one without any ALGs=20
> > required on the NAT device. LWAPP used many of the concepts=20
> from this=20
> > protocol in its early designs.
> >=20
>=20
> I was overly general in my statement above - I agree that=20
> l2tp does do pretty well with NATs in general these days,=20
> though there actually were issues with some NAT=20
> implementations dropping fragments in the early days.
> But, those issues are not there for modern gear.=20
>=20
> We didn't start having problems with l2tp and NAT until we=20
> tried to combine it with IPsec. One of the primary reasons=20
> for this was that at that point, we began trying to manage=20
> two related datagram channels through a nat, not just one.=20
> Sound familiar?
>=20
> If you read on to what I said just below, that gets to the=20
> heart of it:
>=20
> > > LWAPP, as it stands, already runs over one port with a=20
> MUX header.=20
> > > This, in conjunction with the built-in heartbeat (echo=20
> > > request/reply), suggests that it should work as-is in some simple=20
> > > NAT scenarios. However, the IPsec group dedicated
> > > 2 RFCs to this problem, suggesting that it is not really all that=20
> > > simple. Still, if you could share the details of the scenarios in=20
> > > which it *is* currently working, that might help to=20
> clarify how much=20
> > > remains to be done. If we are willing to stick with one=20
> channel and=20
> > > a mux header, maybe we can deal with simple nat-t in the=20
> base spec,=20
> > > and worry about more complex scenarios in follow-on work.
> >
> > I don't argue that IPSec had multiple specs for this purpose, but=20
> > again, L2TP designed their protocol from the get-go with=20
> NAT in mind -=20
> > and it does work. If we decide to push this off, then we=20
> will end up=20
> > with the multiple specs defining possible changes to the=20
> base spec to=20
> > support NAT environments.
> >=20
> > NAT was a recommendation by the eval team that I agree we need to=20
> > pursue.
>=20
> In actuality, the IPsec group dedicated *3* RFC's to this=20
> problem, if you include the ipsec-nat requirements doc (RFC=20
> 3715), and NAT'd l2tp/ipsec was one of problem areas those=20
> RFCs were trying to address. I think there are two critical=20
> distinctions we must recognize in order to get this dialog=20
> off of square 1:
>=20
> - the current lwapp implementation is getting some traction=20
> in NAT environments right now precisely because it=20
> multiplexes data and control messages over one channel
>=20
> - we have a proposal on the table to run these channels over=20
> separate datagram ports; this introduces all of the issues=20
> IPsec had to deal with; and the IPsec folks, after thinking=20
> long and hard about this, solved the problems by putting both=20
> channels onto one port (doh!)
>=20
> Bottom line: we can probably solve most NAT traversal issues=20
> by simply using a mux header, rather than two ports, (and=20
> this ignores other issues we'll have with the two-port=20
> approach, which I'll address in another email)
>=20
> Scott
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:36:22 -0800
> From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> To: "Partha Narasimhan" <partha@arubanetworks.com>
> Cc: capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
> Message-ID:
> =09
> <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A201A57643@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=3D"us-ascii"
>=20
>=20
> > While the current mapping seems the simplest one to choose from a=20
> > design perspective, my earlier statement was to show that there are=20
> > other implementations out there that use a different one. This is=20
> > about a WTP vendor choosing a method to manage their MAC=20
> address space=20
> > and how they allocate addresses to their devices. IMHO, we should=20
> > leave it to the WTP vendor to use their own MAC address management=20
> > method(s) rather than impose one particular scheme on them from a=20
> > protocol spec.
>=20
> Which is why I'm hoping that such vendors speak up now.=20
> Frankly, I have a hard time understanding the manufacturing=20
> process that allows for non-contiguous MAC addresses to be=20
> assigned to a WTP.
> Given the rarity of MAC addresses, vendors generally try to=20
> use them as efficiently as possible.
>=20
> So I would prefer we keep it simple vs. maximum flexibility,=20
> unless vendors out there see a specific problem with this approach.
>=20
> > Based on a very quick glance, it is not clear to me why this would=20
> > require new messages or changes to the state machine (quite=20
> possible I=20
> > am missing something). It does seem to require adding a=20
> field or two=20
> > to some messages.
>=20
> You may be right - it depends on how we end up implementing it.
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:36:22 -0800
> From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> To: "Saravanan Govindan" <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,
> 	"capwap" <capwap@frascone.com>
> Message-ID:
> =09
> <4FF84B0BC277FF45AA27FE969DD956A201A57644@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=3D"us-ascii"
>=20
> So if I understand properly, you'd like the AC to also=20
> include the BSSID the WTP should use, in addition to the WLAN ID?
>=20
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
>=20
> =20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Saravanan Govindan=20
> [mailto:Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:21 PM
> > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> >=20
> > Pat,
> >=20
> > I like the idea of specifying a default mode for WLAN configuration=20
> > because it helps implementers with an exact spec. In a=20
> slight change=20
> > from the request below, I would like to see the AC decide=20
> the WLAN ID=20
> > and its corresponding BSSID (for the WTP) and notify this mapping=20
> > within the Configuration Response.
> >=20
> > Saravanan
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:06 AM
> > To: capwap
> > Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> >=20
> > The original request stated:
> > > Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly=20
> > > different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
> > > The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration
> > Request and
> > > the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would be used for
> > the WLAN
> > > as part of the Configuration Response.
> > > In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID
> > to WLAN ID
> > > mappings.
> >=20
> > I'd like to better understand the justification for making such a=20
> > change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for this feature?
> > =20
> >=20
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> > Cisco Systems
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >=20
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:51:54 -0800 (PST)
> From: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
> Cc: capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<Pine.LNX.4.10.10603291041071.26409-100000@shell4.bayarea.net>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=3DUS-ASCII
>=20
> HI,
>=20
> The use case is the following:
>=20
> A manufacturer creates an AP that is designed to support
> a single BSSID. Later on, new software is developed so that
> the device can support multiple BSSIDs (and supports
> CAPWAP.) The question is where does the device receive
> the needed MAC addresses to support this increased
> capability. One approach is to have the
> AC manage a pool of MAC addresses that can be allocated
> to WTPs (which were previously standalone APs). The
> MAC addresses in the pool are typically a rare resource
> not to be squandered. Thus, the AC might allocate them
> to converted WTPs only as needed. If this approach
> is followed, then the MAC address used for the BSSIDs
> in the converted WTPs may not (and are probably not)
> be contiguous.
>=20
> On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> > > While the current mapping seems the simplest one to choose=20
> > > from a design perspective, my earlier statement was to show=20
> > > that there are other implementations out there that use a=20
> > > different one. This is about a WTP vendor choosing a method=20
> > > to manage their MAC address space and how they allocate=20
> > > addresses to their devices. IMHO, we should leave it to the=20
> > > WTP vendor to use their own MAC address management method(s)=20
> > > rather than impose one particular scheme on them from a=20
> > > protocol spec.=20
> >=20
> > Which is why I'm hoping that such vendors speak up now. Frankly,
> > I have a hard time understanding the manufacturing process that
> > allows for non-contiguous MAC addresses to be assigned to a WTP.
> > Given the rarity of MAC addresses, vendors generally try to use=20
> > them as efficiently as possible.
> >=20
> > So I would prefer we keep it simple vs. maximum flexibility, unless
> > vendors out there see a specific problem with this approach.
> >=20
> > > Based on a very quick glance, it is not clear to me why this=20
> > > would require new messages or changes to the state machine=20
> > > (quite possible I am missing something). It does seem to=20
> > > require adding a field or two to some messages.
> >=20
> > You may be right - it depends on how we end up implementing it.
> >=20
> > Pat Calhoun
>=20
> Regards,
> /david t. perkins
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:04:51 +0100
> From: Philip.Rakity@u4eatech.com
> Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> To: capwap@frascone.com
> Message-ID: <20060329210451.4u012s8r4c0ok4wo@webmail.u4eatech.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=3DISO-8859-1;	format=3D"flowed"
>=20
>=20
> 1 "extra" MAC address is available for free by using the locally=20
> administrated bit.
>=20
>=20
> Quoting "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>:
>=20
> > HI,
> >
> > The use case is the following:
> >
> > A manufacturer creates an AP that is designed to support
> > a single BSSID. Later on, new software is developed so that
> > the device can support multiple BSSIDs (and supports
> > CAPWAP.) The question is where does the device receive
> > the needed MAC addresses to support this increased
> > capability. One approach is to have the
> > AC manage a pool of MAC addresses that can be allocated
> > to WTPs (which were previously standalone APs). The
> > MAC addresses in the pool are typically a rare resource
> > not to be squandered. Thus, the AC might allocate them
> > to converted WTPs only as needed. If this approach
> > is followed, then the MAC address used for the BSSIDs
> > in the converted WTPs may not (and are probably not)
> > be contiguous.
> >
> > On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
> >> > While the current mapping seems the simplest one to choose
> >> > from a design perspective, my earlier statement was to show
> >> > that there are other implementations out there that use a
> >> > different one. This is about a WTP vendor choosing a method
> >> > to manage their MAC address space and how they allocate
> >> > addresses to their devices. IMHO, we should leave it to the
> >> > WTP vendor to use their own MAC address management method(s)
> >> > rather than impose one particular scheme on them from a
> >> > protocol spec.
> >>
> >> Which is why I'm hoping that such vendors speak up now. Frankly,
> >> I have a hard time understanding the manufacturing process that
> >> allows for non-contiguous MAC addresses to be assigned to a WTP.
> >> Given the rarity of MAC addresses, vendors generally try to use
> >> them as efficiently as possible.
> >>
> >> So I would prefer we keep it simple vs. maximum flexibility, unless
> >> vendors out there see a specific problem with this approach.
> >>
> >> > Based on a very quick glance, it is not clear to me why this
> >> > would require new messages or changes to the state machine
> >> > (quite possible I am missing something). It does seem to
> >> > require adding a field or two to some messages.
> >>
> >> You may be right - it depends on how we end up implementing it.
> >>
> >> Pat Calhoun
> >
> > Regards,
> > /david t. perkins
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:30:11 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
> Subject: split AC-WTP tunneling (was RE:[Capwap] a necessary and
> 	sufficient	capwap base protocol)
> To: capwap <capwap@frascone.com>, Pat Calhoun <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
> Message-ID:
> =09
> <16499866.1143660611147.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.ear
> thlink.net>
> =09
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
>=20
> A few days ago I suggested that we should not be considering=20
> split tunneling
> in the base draft. Below is a quote, including Pat's=20
> response. I followed up
> previously, but I want to spend a bit more energy on this:
>=20
> >> - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a different=20
> >> endpoint than the control channel; this has definite security=20
> >> implications, and probably requires a secure inter-AC protocol, in=20
> >> addition to its own state machine loop(s). It's a corner case that=20
> >> many won't care about.
> >
> >Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale=20
> deployments=20
> >and the protocol supports it already.
>=20
> I've included a diagram in a text file attachment (sorry, but=20
> my webmail
> interface mangles ascii drawings). In the diagram, I've=20
> include a NAT cloud
> for good measure, but what I really want to draw attention to=20
> first is the
> inter-ac communication this requires.
>=20
> The proposal is to allow the AC with which the control channel is
> established to tell the WTP to terminate its data channel on=20
> a different AC.
> I think this is a rather curious construct, since control=20
> channel overhead
> is relatively light, and it seems like the whole session=20
> could be pushed to
> AC-2 just as easily (isn't this sort of like load balancing?), but
> apparently some folks really want this functionality.
>=20
> I've proposed not supporting this in the base spec, deferring=20
> it until later
> (assuming it turns out to be useful, of which I remain=20
> unconvinced). One
> reason is that it requires a back-end inter-AC protocol, and=20
> this MUST be
> secured - this is currently out of scope, and bringing it=20
> into scope for the
> base protocol will just about guarantee that we won't have=20
> interoperable
> implementations before *next* year at this time.
>=20
> A secondary issue pertains to the complexity this introduces=20
> into the state
> machines in both ACs and the WTP. AC-1 must make sure that=20
> AC-2 can "handle"
> the WTP before telling the WTP to use AC-2. What if AC-2=20
> can't take the
> load? And what about race conditions - what if WTP sends data=20
> before AC-2 is
> ready, or after AC-1 told AC-2 to tear down the session? And=20
> if there's a
> NAT, what if one channel is lost but the other one is still=20
> there? Or AC-2
> turns out to be unreachable for some reason? Or AC-2 can't reach WTP?
>=20
> This is just stream-of-consiousness rambling after 30 seconds=20
> of thinking
> about it - I'm sure there's plenty more complexity where that=20
> came from.
> This looks like a minority solution that will take lots of time plus a
> charter change to address. I suggest we defer this.
>=20
> To be very clear, the fact that something is not in the base=20
> spec does not
> mean a vendor is not free to differentiate by adding the=20
> feature using VSA's
> or some such approach.
>=20
> Scott
> -------------- next part --------------
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>                                                     +----------+
>                                      +------------->|   AC-1   |
> +-------+ control   (=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D)      /               =
+----------+
> |       |<-------->(          )<---/                      ^
> |  WTP  |          (   NAT    )                           |=20
> binding ctrl
> |       |<-------->(          )<---\                      |  protocol?
> +-------+  data     (=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D)      \                  =
   v
>                                      \              +----------+ =20
>                                       +------------>|   AC-2   |
>                                                     +----------+=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
> End of Capwap Digest, Vol 5, Issue 49
> *************************************
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
>=20
> Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
>=20
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From capwap-bounces+capwap-archive=lists.ietf.org@frascone.com Fri Mar 31 10:06:35 2006
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Subject: RE: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:05:05 -0800
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Thread-Topic: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "zhaoyujin 31390" <zhaoyujin@huawei.com>,
	"Saravanan Govindan" <saravanang@hotmail.com>
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Unfortunately, radios have BSSIDs, not the ACs.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: zhaoyujin 31390 [mailto:zhaoyujin@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 5:07 AM
> To: Saravanan Govindan
> Cc: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou);=20
> Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com; capwap@frascone.com
> Subject: RE:RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
>=20
> Hi all:
>=20
>   I think current protocol mechanism is ok.=20
>=20
>   The map of WLAN ID and BSSID is very simple, and it is only=20
> an offset from based BSSID.
>=20
>   The WLAN ID length is shorter than BSSID, and easy to used=20
> than BSSID (It is a MAC address).
>=20
>   Another if keep BSSID on AC is based on vendor, and it is=20
> out of protocol scope.
>=20
> Best regard
> Michael
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > Yes, Pat.
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
> > To: "Saravanan Govindan"=20
> > <Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com>,"capwap"=20
> > <capwap@frascone.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:36:22 -0800
> >=20
> > So if I understand properly, you'd like the AC to also include the=20
> > BSSID the WTP should use, in addition to the WLAN ID?
> >=20
> > Pat Calhoun
> > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Saravanan Govindan [Saravanan.Govindan@sg.panasonic.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:21 PM
> > > To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); capwap
> > > Subject: RE: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> > >
> > > Pat,
> > >
> > > I like the idea of specifying a default mode for WLAN=20
> configuration=20
> > > because it helps implementers with an exact spec. In a=20
> slight change=20
> > > from the request below, I would like to see the AC decide=20
> the WLAN=20
> > > ID and its corresponding BSSID (for the WTP) and notify=20
> this mapping=20
> > > within the Configuration Response.
> > >
> > > Saravanan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [pcalhoun@cisco.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:06 AM
> > > To: capwap
> > > Subject: [Capwap] Issue 61: Justification Required
> > >
> > > The original request stated:
> > > > Page 108, Section 11.8.1.1. I would like to suggest a slightly=20
> > > > different behavior for configuring a WLAN on a WTP.
> > > > The AC would send a WLAN ID as part of the Configuration
> > > Request and
> > > > the WTP would respond with the BSSID that would be used for
> > > the WLAN
> > > > as part of the Configuration Response.
> > > > In that way, the WTP is responsible for maintaining BSSID
> > > to WLAN ID
> > > > mappings.
> > >
> > > I'd like to better understand the justification for making such a=20
> > > change. Anyone have strong feelings, and reasons, for=20
> this feature?
> > >
> > >
> > > Pat Calhoun
> > > CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit Cisco Systems=20
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> > >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >=20
> > Archives: http://lists.frascone.com/pipermail/capwap
> >=20
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get an advanced look at the new version of MSN Messenger.=20
> > http://messenger.msn.com.sg/Beta/Default.aspx
> >=20
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > http://lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/capwap
> >=20
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Subject: RE: split AC-WTP tunneling (was RE:[Capwap] a necessary and
	sufficient capwap base protocol)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:21:40 -0800
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Thread-Topic: split AC-WTP tunneling (was RE:[Capwap] a necessary and
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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>,
	"capwap" <capwap@frascone.com>
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Scott,

I believe that the diagram you had in your e-mail is incorrect. Instead,
I'd like
to propose the following figure:

                                                +-------------------+
                                                |         AC        |
                                                |   +----------+    |
                                     +----------+-->| Control  |    |
+-------+ control   (=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D)      /           |   =
+----------+    |
|       |<-------->(          )<---/            |         ^         |
|  WTP  |          (   NAT    )                 |         | binding ctrl
|       |<-------->(          )<---\            |         |  protocol?
+-------+  data     (=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D)      \           |        =
 v         |
                                     \          |   +----------+    |
                                      +---------+-->|   Data   |+   |
                                                |   +----------+|   |
                                                |    +----------+   |
                                                +-------------------+

I believe that the above scenario is one that CAPWAP must be able to
support
in order to allow to be able to create scalable systems based on the
standard.
In fact, it is a feature that is already part of the specification,
albeit it=20
is possible that the NAT feature poses challenges to this scenario.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:30 AM
> To: capwap; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
> Subject: split AC-WTP tunneling (was RE:[Capwap] a necessary=20
> and sufficient capwap base protocol)
>=20
> A few days ago I suggested that we should not be considering=20
> split tunneling in the base draft. Below is a quote,=20
> including Pat's response. I followed up previously, but I=20
> want to spend a bit more energy on this:
>=20
> >> - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a different=20
> >> endpoint than the control channel; this has definite security=20
> >> implications, and probably requires a secure inter-AC protocol, in=20
> >> addition to its own state machine loop(s). It's a corner case that=20
> >> many won't care about.
> >
> >Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale=20
> deployments=20
> >and the protocol supports it already.
>=20
> I've included a diagram in a text file attachment (sorry, but=20
> my webmail interface mangles ascii drawings). In the diagram,=20
> I've include a NAT cloud for good measure, but what I really=20
> want to draw attention to first is the inter-ac communication=20
> this requires.
>=20
> The proposal is to allow the AC with which the control=20
> channel is established to tell the WTP to terminate its data=20
> channel on a different AC. I think this is a rather curious=20
> construct, since control channel overhead is relatively=20
> light, and it seems like the whole session could be pushed to=20
> AC-2 just as easily (isn't this sort of like load=20
> balancing?), but apparently some folks really want this functionality.
>=20
> I've proposed not supporting this in the base spec, deferring=20
> it until later (assuming it turns out to be useful, of which=20
> I remain unconvinced). One reason is that it requires a=20
> back-end inter-AC protocol, and this MUST be secured - this=20
> is currently out of scope, and bringing it into scope for the=20
> base protocol will just about guarantee that we won't have=20
> interoperable implementations before *next* year at this time.
>=20
> A secondary issue pertains to the complexity this introduces=20
> into the state machines in both ACs and the WTP. AC-1 must=20
> make sure that AC-2 can "handle" the WTP before telling the=20
> WTP to use AC-2. What if AC-2 can't take the load? And what=20
> about race conditions - what if WTP sends data before AC-2 is=20
> ready, or after AC-1 told AC-2 to tear down the session? And=20
> if there's a NAT, what if one channel is lost but the other=20
> one is still there? Or AC-2 turns out to be unreachable for=20
> some reason? Or AC-2 can't reach WTP?
>=20
> This is just stream-of-consiousness rambling after 30 seconds=20
> of thinking about it - I'm sure there's plenty more=20
> complexity where that came from. This looks like a minority=20
> solution that will take lots of time plus a charter change to=20
> address. I suggest we defer this.
>=20
> To be very clear, the fact that something is not in the base=20
> spec does not mean a vendor is not free to differentiate by=20
> adding the feature using VSA's or some such approach.
>=20
> Scott
>=20
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From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <pcalhoun@cisco.com>,
	capwap <capwap@frascone.com>
Subject: RE: split AC-WTP tunneling (was RE:[Capwap] a necessary and
	sufficient capwap base protocol)
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Hi Pat,

>Pat Calhoun wrote:
>
>I believe that the diagram you had in your e-mail is incorrect. Instead,
>I'd like
>to propose the following figure:
>
>                                                +-------------------+
>                                                |         AC        |
>                                                |   +----------+    |
>                                     +----------+-->| Control  |    |
>+-------+ control   (========)      /           |   +----------+    |
>|       |<-------->(          )<---/            |         ^         |
>|  WTP  |          (   NAT    )                 |         | binding ctrl
>|       |<-------->(          )<---\            |         |  protocol?
>+-------+  data     (========)      \           |         v         |
>                                     \          |   +----------+    |
>                                      +---------+-->|   Data   |+   |
>                                                |   +----------+|   |
>                                                |    +----------+   |
>                                                +-------------------+
>
>I believe that the above scenario is one that CAPWAP must be able to
>support
>in order to allow to be able to create scalable systems based on the
>standard.
>In fact, it is a feature that is already part of the specification,
>albeit it 
>is possible that the NAT feature poses challenges to this scenario.

A few comments: first, incorrect by whose definition? If we allow separate termination points for data channel and control channel, the diagram I submitted is a valid deployment scenario, and you can be sure someone will try it.

Second, I'm not sure I know what your diagram implies - is this supposed to refer to two blades in one chassis? If so, why are two IP addresses required? Such switching could easily be accomplished by looking at the mux header.

Finally, it's not a specification yet, so let's not rush to declare lwapp-03 immutable. The wg never agreed that everything in lwapp-03 must be implemented verbatim, only that lwapp is a good starting point.

Scott

>
>Pat Calhoun
>CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
>Cisco Systems
>
> 
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:30 AM
>> To: capwap; Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)
>> Subject: split AC-WTP tunneling (was RE:[Capwap] a necessary 
>> and sufficient capwap base protocol)
>> 
>> A few days ago I suggested that we should not be considering 
>> split tunneling in the base draft. Below is a quote, 
>> including Pat's response. I followed up previously, but I 
>> want to spend a bit more energy on this:
>> 
>> >> - split tunneling, where data channel terminates on a different 
>> >> endpoint than the control channel; this has definite security 
>> >> implications, and probably requires a secure inter-AC protocol, in 
>> >> addition to its own state machine loop(s). It's a corner case that 
>> >> many won't care about.
>> >
>> >Same as previous comment. This is mandatory for large scale 
>> deployments 
>> >and the protocol supports it already.
>> 
>> I've included a diagram in a text file attachment (sorry, but 
>> my webmail interface mangles ascii drawings). In the diagram, 
>> I've include a NAT cloud for good measure, but what I really 
>> want to draw attention to first is the inter-ac communication 
>> this requires.
>> 
>> The proposal is to allow the AC with which the control 
>> channel is established to tell the WTP to terminate its data 
>> channel on a different AC. I think this is a rather curious 
>> construct, since control channel overhead is relatively 
>> light, and it seems like the whole session could be pushed to 
>> AC-2 just as easily (isn't this sort of like load 
>> balancing?), but apparently some folks really want this functionality.
>> 
>> I've proposed not supporting this in the base spec, deferring 
>> it until later (assuming it turns out to be useful, of which 
>> I remain unconvinced). One reason is that it requires a 
>> back-end inter-AC protocol, and this MUST be secured - this 
>> is currently out of scope, and bringing it into scope for the 
>> base protocol will just about guarantee that we won't have 
>> interoperable implementations before *next* year at this time.
>> 
>> A secondary issue pertains to the complexity this introduces 
>> into the state machines in both ACs and the WTP. AC-1 must 
>> make sure that AC-2 can "handle" the WTP before telling the 
>> WTP to use AC-2. What if AC-2 can't take the load? And what 
>> about race conditions - what if WTP sends data before AC-2 is 
>> ready, or after AC-1 told AC-2 to tear down the session? And 
>> if there's a NAT, what if one channel is lost but the other 
>> one is still there? Or AC-2 turns out to be unreachable for 
>> some reason? Or AC-2 can't reach WTP?
>> 
>> This is just stream-of-consiousness rambling after 30 seconds 
>> of thinking about it - I'm sure there's plenty more 
>> complexity where that came from. This looks like a minority 
>> solution that will take lots of time plus a charter change to 
>> address. I suggest we defer this.
>> 
>> To be very clear, the fact that something is not in the base 
>> spec does not mean a vendor is not free to differentiate by 
>> adding the feature using VSA's or some such approach.
>> 
>> Scott
>> 

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To: "Scott G. Kelly" <scott@hyperthought.com>,
	capwap <capwap@frascone.com>, Pat Calhoun <pcalhoun@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: [Capwap] duplicate message element values
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I've created item 91 to track this issue.

Cheers,

	Mike 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott G. Kelly [mailto:s.kelly@ix.netcom.com] 
> Sent: March 30, 2006 6:07 PM
> To: capwap; Pat Calhoun
> Subject: [Capwap] duplicate message element values
> 
> Hi Pat,
> 
> The following capwap message elements are currently defined 
> with duplicate values:
> 
> - AC Address and Result Code (2)
> 
> - 802.11 supported rates and 802.11 rate set (16)
> 
> - Duplicate IPv4 address and Duplicate IPv6 address (77)
> 
> Are these typos, or do new unique values need to be assigned?
> 
> Scott
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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Subject: [Capwap] PFS: requirement or not?
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I've heard it asserted that PFS (perfect forward secrecy) is not a requirement for capwap. After thinking this over, I don't agree.

For those of you who aren't crypto geeks, here's a simple definition of PFS (you can see this one on the FreeS/WAN site at http://www.freeswan.org/freeswan_snaps/CURRENT-SNAP/doc/glossary.html#PFS):

Perfect forward secrecy (PFS)
    A property of systems such as Diffie-Hellman key exchange which use a long-term key (such as the shared 
    secret in IKE) and generate short-term keys as required. If an attacker who acquires the long-term key
    provably can

        * neither read previous messages which he may have archived
        * nor read future messages without performing additional successful attacks

    then the system has PFS. The attacker needs the short-term keys in order to read the trafiic and merely having
    the long-term key does not allow him to infer those. Of course, it may allow him to conduct another attack
    (such as man-in-the-middle) which gives him some short-term keys, but he does not automatically get them
    just by acquiring the long-term key.

...and of course, there are other definitions out there, but this one is pretty non-controversial, and captures the general gist of it.

So, back to the point: I'm puzzled by the assertion that PFS is not a requirement for capwap, and I want to assert that in fact, it *is* a requirement.

Why? Because WTP's will often be deployed in scenarios where physical security is very difficult, if not impossible to provide. That being the case, their credentials (i.e. the long-term key referred to above) could be compromised at any time, possibly without detection. If compromising this key allows someone to decrypt previously recorded exchanges (and future ones by simply recording them), this violates the confidentiality requirement which led us to support encryption to begin with.

As it turns out, DTLS supports PFS, provided we choose the right key exchange (KE) schemes. In particular, the DHE_PSK ciphersuites provide PFS, while the vanilla PSK and RSA_PSK ciphersuites do not.

We can easily deal with this by naming only the appropriate ciphersuites in the spec, but I think it's important that we explicitly assert PFS as a requirement now, so that someone doesn't inadvertantly add support for the "wrong" KE schemes in the future.

Scott

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> A few comments: first, incorrect by whose definition? If we=20
> allow separate termination points for data channel and=20
> control channel, the diagram I submitted is a valid=20
> deployment scenario, and you can be sure someone will try it.

By my definition, of course :)

My point is that the scenario you had drawn was inconsistent with=20
the scenario that I was thinking.

>=20
> Second, I'm not sure I know what your diagram implies - is=20
> this supposed to refer to two blades in one chassis? If so,=20
> why are two IP addresses required? Such switching could=20
> easily be accomplished by looking at the mux header.

Please note the multiple data planes in the picture. That said, it
is possible that the MUX would work, but would be great if you could
provide more concrete details.

>=20
> Finally, it's not a specification yet, so let's not rush to=20
> declare lwapp-03 immutable. The wg never agreed that=20
> everything in lwapp-03 must be implemented verbatim, only=20
> that lwapp is a good starting point.

Fair enough. However, I'd prefer that we have widespread agreement prior
to pulling features out of the spec.=20

PatC
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> Why? Because WTP's will often be deployed in scenarios where=20
> physical security is very difficult, if not impossible to=20
> provide. That being the case, their credentials (i.e. the=20
> long-term key referred to above) could be compromised at any=20
> time, possibly without detection. If compromising this key=20
> allows someone to decrypt previously recorded exchanges (and=20
> future ones by simply recording them), this violates the=20
> confidentiality requirement which led us to support=20
> encryption to begin with.

Not that I'm in disagreement, but I question whether the process
required to gain access to the key is such that one could
just as easily gain access to the credentials - making the whole
point moot.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems
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In general, transient DTLS keys for past sessions would not be saved on 
the WTP.  Without PFS, if an attacker had saved the DTLS handshake from 
the previous session, they could use the compromised long-term key to 
derive past session keys, and therefore compromise past sessions. 
Therefore, in general, PFS is a good thing.

HOWEVER, what exactly are we trying to protect?  The whole point of DTLS 
is to prevent an attacker from compromising control traffic.  My 
question: What good is old control traffic to an attacker?  The only 
thing of value contained within is the PTK for 802.11i sessions that are 
no longer active.  Thus, my conclusion is that PFS is not a requirement.

I see no reason not to have PFS ciphersuites defined, but I don't think 
they should be mandatory to implement.

[ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ]
[ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ]

Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) wrote:
>>Why? Because WTP's will often be deployed in scenarios where 
>>physical security is very difficult, if not impossible to 
>>provide. That being the case, their credentials (i.e. the 
>>long-term key referred to above) could be compromised at any 
>>time, possibly without detection. If compromising this key 
>>allows someone to decrypt previously recorded exchanges (and 
>>future ones by simply recording them), this violates the 
>>confidentiality requirement which led us to support 
>>encryption to begin with.
> 
> 
> Not that I'm in disagreement, but I question whether the process
> required to gain access to the key is such that one could
> just as easily gain access to the credentials - making the whole
> point moot.
> 
> Pat Calhoun
> CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
> Cisco Systems
> _________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:52:09 -0500 (EST)
From: "Scott G. Kelly" <s.kelly@ix.netcom.com>
To: Charles Clancy <clancy@cs.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: [Capwap] PFS: requirement or not?
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Hi Charles,

>In general, transient DTLS keys for past sessions would not be saved on 
>the WTP.  Without PFS, if an attacker had saved the DTLS handshake from 
>the previous session, they could use the compromised long-term key to 
>derive past session keys, and therefore compromise past sessions. 
>Therefore, in general, PFS is a good thing.
>
>HOWEVER, what exactly are we trying to protect?  The whole point of DTLS 
>is to prevent an attacker from compromising control traffic.  My 
>question: What good is old control traffic to an attacker?  The only 
>thing of value contained within is the PTK for 802.11i sessions that are 
>no longer active.  Thus, my conclusion is that PFS is not a requirement.

I know of at least two interesting use cases. I want to spend a little more time thinking about this before summarizing those - I'll post a follow-up by Monday.

Scott


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