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charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190612233930.D212AB80083@rfc-editor.org> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 16:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] =?utf-8?q?RFC_8610_on_Concise_Data_Definition_Language_?= =?utf-8?q?=28CDDL=29=3A_A_Notational_Convention_to_Express_Concise_Binary?= =?utf-8?q?_Object_Representation_=28CBOR=29_and_JSON_Data_Structures?= X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:39:48 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8610 Title: Concise Data Definition Language (CDDL): A Notational Convention to Express Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) and JSON Data Structures Author: H. Birkholz, C. Vigano, C. Bormann Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: June 2019 Mailbox: henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de, christoph.vigano@uni-bremen.de, cabo@tzi.org Pages: 64 Characters: 125233 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-08.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8610 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8610 This document proposes a notational convention to express Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) data structures (RFC 7049). Its main goal is to provide an easy and unambiguous way to express structures for protocol messages and data formats that use CBOR or JSON. This document is a product of the Concise Binary Object Representation Maintenance and Extensions Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. 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X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0701MB2444 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Habemus CDDL - RFC8610 X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 12:13:58 -0000 Q0JPUiB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwJ3MgZmlyc3QgUkZDIGlzIG91dC4NCg0KQ2VsZWJyYXRpb25zIGFy ZSBpbiBvcmRlciwgdGhhbmtzIHRvIGV2ZXJ5Ym9keSB3aG8gd29ya2VkIGhhcmQgdG8gZ2V0IHRo aXMgZG9uZSwgYXV0aG9ycywgb3VyIHJlc3BvbnNpYmxlIEFELCBzaGVwaGVyZCAoYW5kIGV4IGNv LWNoYWlyKSwgb2xkIGFuZCBuZXcgY28tY2hhaXJzLCBhbmQgZXZlcnlib2R5IGluIGFuZCBvdXQg b2YgdGhlIHdnIHdobyBwcm92aWRlZCB1c2VmdWwgZmVlZGJhY2sgYW5kIHRleHQuDQoNCkNvbmdy YXR1bGF0aW9ucyENCg0KRnJhbmNlc2NhDQoNCmh0dHBzOi8vbnVtYmVybWF0aWNzLmNvbS9uLzg2 MTAvIA0KDQrvu79PbiAxMy8wNi8yMDE5LCAwMTo0MCwgIkNCT1Igb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIHJmYy1l ZGl0b3JAcmZjLWVkaXRvci5vcmciIDxjYm9yLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9m 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(localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C439120271 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 04:07:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DpRenDIdVb15 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 04:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 118031202A9 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 04:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.113] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45QHr75HQJzyv8; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:07:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582203225.947556-909fbd59479fd3e7796eb2fce439f8ac Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:07:18 +0200 Message-Id: <0F4736CD-9C56-409E-AC69-E40FDEB663BE@tzi.org> To: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Regular expression flavors X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 11:07:30 -0000 Over in the YANG working group (which calls itself =E2=80=9Cnetmod=E2=80=9D= ), there is an interesting discussion about regex flavors and how W3C = XSD regexes are unloved by implementers and prompt open rebellion. = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/netmod/?gbt=3D1&index=3DWmiVRg1pE= EI_DNupsXnMFCWcwaU I think this discussion is also relevant for CDDL, even though we = already have defined our escape hatch [1]. [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8610#section-3.8.3.2 Still, since W3C XSD Appendix F [2] is our default (and currently only = defined) regex flavor, we are likely to run into similar problems with = unruly open source communities, so we=E2=80=99d better watch carefully = what this does to YANG. Maybe we also can mount some common efforts, as = is being discussed in the referenced thread. [2]: https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#regexs Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Jun 18 13:34:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 202DE1202CF for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:34:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id swDoZrtpqJbP for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E80712019C for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.113] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45T0DB0s5jzySM; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 22:34:02 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <008d01d510cc$47b932f0$d72b98d0$@augustcellars.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 22:34:01 +0200 Cc: cbor@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582582839.558086-fb1f2b70aee8154bd7e723505e25e3d2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <008d01d510cc$47b932f0$d72b98d0$@augustcellars.com> To: Jim Schaad X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Rechartering Process X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 20:34:07 -0000 A few minor comments on the current charter text in = https://github.com/cbor-wg/charter/blob/master/charter-01.md : > Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR, RFC 7049) extends the = JavaScript > Object Notation (JSON, RFC 7159) data interchange format to include = binary > data and an extensibility model, using a binary representation format = that > is easy to parse correctly. It has been picked up by a number of IETF > efforts (e.g., CORE, ANIMA GRASP) as a message format. I don=E2=80=99t think we need to give examples any more, so I think we = can get rid of the parenthesis in the last sentence. > The CBOR working group will update RFC 7049 to fix verified errata. = Security > issues and clarifications may be addressed, but changes to the = document will > ensure backward compatibility for popular deployed codebases. The = resulting > document will be targeted at becoming a Full Internet Standard. After = that, > the CBOR working group will monitor issues found with the CBOR = specification > and, if needed, will produce an updated document. >=20 > Similar to the way ABNF (RFC 5234/7405) can be used to describe the = set of > valid messages in a text representation, it is useful for protocol > specifications to use a description format for the data in = CBOR-encoded > messages. The Concise Data Definition Language (CDDL) is such a = description > technique that has already been used in CORE, ANIMA, CDNI, and efforts > outside the IETF. >=20 > CDDL has been published as RFC XXXX. While this specification has been > completed, several new features were raised during the update process = that > were not included, in order not to delay publication, and to allow > publication in the Standards Track. One example of such a feature is = the > ability to combine multiple CDDL files together using a mechanism = other that > manually concatenating them together for processing. The working group = will > collect these features as well as other features that are raised by = users of > CDDL, evaluate their utility and add to a second edition of the > specification if warranted. (The number is now known :-) > The working group will define the approach to further evolving CDDL as = a > sequence of editions, which might also add further extension points, > probably as part of the introduction of the next edition of the CDDL = base > specification. The body of existing specifications that make use of = CDDL is > considered precious, and the WG will set out not to damage their = value. >=20 > The working group will evaluate the necessity of providing advice and > guidance for developers using CBOR and CDDL. It is currently expected = that > this would be done using a Wiki of some type. This work would not be > expected to be published by the IETF. >=20 > There are a number of additional CBOR tagged types that are either = currently > adopted by the working group, by other working groups, or as = individual > submissions. Additionally, there are expected to be other such = documents > that will come to the attention of the working group. In some cases, = the > working group expects to adopt and publish these proposals. >=20 > The working group will evaluate and place proposals in one of the = following > categories using a dispatch like process: >=20 > * General purpose tagged types that are expected to have broad = usage: The > working group will normally adopt and publish such proposals. Examples = of > proposals in this category are CBOR Sequence = (draft-bormann-cbor-sequence) > and Error Indications (draft-richter-cbor-error-tag). The CBOR sequence is not really a CBOR tagged type (even though it could = be used as such in a byte string) as a new media type using CBOR in a = slightly different way than application/cbor is used. > * Internet wide specific purpose tagged types: The working group may > decide to adopt these proposals, but typically it would just provide = input > and recommend that they be published either as an Independent = Submission or > by a different working group. >=20 > * Narrow purpose tagged types: The working group may provide = evaluation > of such proposals, but typically would not support Working Group = adoption, > and could recommend publication in a different forum. An example of = this > might be portions of draft-bormann-cbor-tags-oid dealing with some of = the > more esoteric types such as regular expressions Period :-). 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(localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F4F1201A8; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:30:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: cbor@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cbor@ietf.org Message-ID: <156105542322.2980.12689186179744921847@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:30:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05.txt X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 18:30:27 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Concise Binary Object Representation Maintenance and Extensions WG of the IETF. Title : Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) Tags for Typed Arrays Author : Carsten Bormann Filename : draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2019-06-20 Abstract: The Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR, RFC 7049) is a data format whose design goals include the possibility of extremely small code size, fairly small message size, and extensibility without the need for version negotiation. The present document makes use of this extensibility to define a number of CBOR tags for typed arrays of numeric data, as well as two additional tags for multi-dimensional and homogeneous arrays. It is intended as the reference document for the IANA registration of the CBOR tags defined. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jun 20 11:36:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 240171200F3 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:36:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LWS6o5ItJR2M for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 862751200B6 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.113] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45V9WX4G8Qzym7; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 20:36:24 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8C07DAC3-78F5-40A7-990C-1E7DC6B15923" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582748579.640214-fb4487e28b3c090b3a4c04714c536d55 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 20:36:23 +0200 Message-Id: <3328CAA8-0D9A-4F6E-AFC3-E22814D41DA2@tzi.org> References: <156105542347.2980.12150350559185537715.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05.txt X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 18:36:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8C07DAC3-78F5-40A7-990C-1E7DC6B15923 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I believe array-tags-05 addresses the WGLC comments. Commenters: Please check whether your comments were addressed. Chairs: Please check whether a second WGLC is needed or this can = progress. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05.txt > Date: June 20, 2019 at 20:30:23 GMT+2 > To: "Carsten Bormann" > >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05.txt > has been successfully submitted by Carsten Bormann and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags > Revision: 05 > Title: Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) Tags = for Typed Arrays > Document date: 2019-06-20 > Group: cbor > Pages: 15 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05.txt = > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags/ = > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05 = > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags = > Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05 = >=20 > Abstract: > The Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR, RFC 7049) is a data > format whose design goals include the possibility of extremely small > code size, fairly small message size, and extensibility without the > need for version negotiation. >=20 > The present document makes use of this extensibility to define a > number of CBOR tags for typed arrays of numeric data, as well as two > additional tags for multi-dimensional and homogeneous arrays. It is > intended as the reference document for the IANA registration of the > CBOR tags defined. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org = . >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_8C07DAC3-78F5-40A7-990C-1E7DC6B15923 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = believe array-tags-05 addresses the WGLC comments.
Commenters: Please check whether your comments were = addressed.
Chairs: Please check whether a second = WGLC is needed or this can progress.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, = Carsten


Begin = forwarded message:

From: = internet-drafts@ietf.org
Subject: = New Version = Notification for draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05.txt
Date: = June 20, 2019 at 20:30:23 = GMT+2
To: = "Carsten Bormann" <cabo@tzi.org>

A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05.txt
has been successfully submitted by Carsten Bormann and posted = to the
IETF repository.

Name: = = draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags
Revision: 05
Title:= = Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) Tags for Typed = Arrays
Document date: 2019-06-20
Group:= = cbor
Pages: 15
URL: =            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags= -05.txt
Status: =         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-05Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cbor-array-tag= s
Diff: =           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cbor-array-tags-= 05

Abstract:
=   The Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR, RFC 7049) is = a data
  format whose design goals include the = possibility of extremely small
  code size, = fairly small message size, and extensibility without the
=   need for version negotiation.

=   The present document makes use of this extensibility to = define a
  number of CBOR tags for typed arrays = of numeric data, as well as two
  additional = tags for multi-dimensional and homogeneous arrays.  It is
  intended as the reference document for the IANA = registration of the
  CBOR tags defined.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the = time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are = available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF = Secretariat



= --Apple-Mail=_8C07DAC3-78F5-40A7-990C-1E7DC6B15923-- From nobody Fri Jun 21 15:47:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C577A1201CA; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 15:46:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yvIlyHtM1ZWt; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 15:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E089C120136; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 15:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.113] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45Vv205tNvzyNl; Sat, 22 Jun 2019 00:46:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582850006.279883-1de7b78efff3770d35256eae4114a31e Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2019 00:46:48 +0200 Message-Id: <82A54967-C272-4037-A933-52718CCB6BC6@tzi.org> To: Ace Wg , core , cose , cbor@ietf.org, t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF105: DRAFT AGENDA X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:46:54 -0000 Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the DRAFT AGENDA for IETF105. Remember that there is still quite some potential for changes. Conflicts that meet the eye: COSE/TEEP again! ROLL/SUIT/DINRG and 6TISCH/ACE are maybe slightly less annoying. (The poor TEEP people get to both start and end the week, too.) LAKE and LOOPS -- two BOFs at the same time? All times are EDT (Eastern Daylight Time) =3D=3D UTC -4 hours. (Pure UTC times at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc are useful for those who want to listen from remote.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten FRIDAY, March 22, 2019 -- OMA/T2TRG Work Meeting - @ Ericsson Montreal Office (St-Laurent) SATURDAY/SUNDAY, March 23/24. 2019 -- Hackathon (including various interops) - Centre Ville -- Sun 1700-1900 Welcome Reception - Place du Canada -- Sun 1800-2000 Hot RFC Lightning Talks - Viger MONDAY, July 22, 2019 1000-1200 Morning Session I Laurier ART dispatch Dispatch WG Van Horne SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment = Provisioning WG 1330-1530 Afternoon Session I Van Horne INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of = Resource-constrained Nodes WG Place du Canada SEC secdispatch Security Dispatch WG Duluth TSV taps Transport Services WG 1550-1750 Afternoon Session II Laurier ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG St-Catherine OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG Van Horne SEC *** lake Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange = BOF Place du Canada TSV loops Local Optimizations on Path Segments BOF 1810-1910 Afternoon Session III Laurier TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG TUESDAY, July 23, 2019 1000-1200 Morning Session I St-Catherine ART *** cbor 1000-1130 Concise Binary Object = Representation Maintenance and Extensions WG St-Catherine INT ipwave 1130-1200 IP Wireless Access in = Vehicular Environments WG Notre Dame IRTF icnrg Information-Centric Networking Duluth OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG Van Horne SEC cacao Collaborative Automated Course of Action = Operations for Cyber Security BOF Place du Canada TSV quic QUIC WG 1330-1500 Afternoon Session I Duluth OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG 1520-1650 Afternoon Session II Duluth INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Place du Canada IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting Van Horne SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG 1710-1810 Afternoon Session III Duluth ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Laurier INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Place du Canada SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG WEDNESDAY, July 24, 2019 1000-1200 Morning Session I Van Horne IRTF*** dinrg Decentralized Internet Infrastructure St-Catherine RTG *** roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy = networks WG Viger SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things = WG Place du Canada TSV quic QUIC WG 1330-1530 Afternoon Session I Place du Canada GEN netrqmts IETF Meeting Network = Requirements BOF Laurier IRTF pearg Privacy Enhancements and Assessments = Research Group Viger IRTF*** t2trg Thing-to-Thing St-Catherine RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Centre Ville RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG 1550-1650 Afternoon Session II St-Catherine RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG Centre Ville RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG Van Horne SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG THURSDAY, July 25, 2019 1000-1200 Morning Session I Centre Ville ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG St-Catherine RTG rift Routing In Fat Trees WG Place du Canada SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Laurier TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1330-1530 Afternoon Session I Duluth INT dnssd Extensions for Scalable DNS Service = Discovery WG Viger IRTF coinrg Computing in the Network Proposed = Research Group Laurier IRTF panrg Path Aware Networking RG Place du Canada SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting 1550-1720 Afternoon Session II Laurier ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG Duluth INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Place du Canada IRTF cfrg Crypto Forum St-Catherine SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG Centre Ville TSV tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting 1740-1910 Afternoon Session III Duluth INT *** 6tisch IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE = 802.15.4e WG Centre Ville SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for = Constrained Environments WG Place du Canada SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG Notre Dame TSV rmcat RTP Media Congestion Avoidance = Techniques WG FRIDAY, July 26, 2019 1000-1200 Morning Session I Notre Dame ART ice Interactive Connectivity Establishment = WG Centre Ville INT *** lpwan IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks = WG Place du Canada IRTF maprg Measurement and Analysis for Protocols Laurier SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG Duluth SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG 1220-1350 Afternoon Session I Centre Ville SEC acme Automated Certificate Management = Environment WG Van Horne SEC *** cose CBOR Object Signing and Encryption WG St-Catherine SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment = Provisioning WG From nobody Sat Jun 22 19:12:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B5512004C for ; 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Sun, 23 Jun 2019 02:12:10 +0000 Received: from MWHPR22MB0336.namprd22.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d489:2a46:3449:e1d9]) by MWHPR22MB0336.namprd22.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d489:2a46:3449:e1d9%9]) with mapi id 15.20.2008.014; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 02:12:10 +0000 From: Burt Harris To: "cbor@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-bormann-cbor-sequence-00 and Big Data Thread-Index: AdUpUgLr+XPcIF4kT4CtHwBS9wv+Lg== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 02:12:10 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:9F1A8E785B96EAE886DE745BADE123B58EF968EED2836D83A895A13B5DD8E31D; UpperCasedChecksum:45A195F9A01897898268B0EF4074FA130D26FAEB43D2888C1310F16FED4793B8; SizeAsReceived:6511; Count:40 x-tmn: [1d8Gh9b5q7uVifeybW5NoT0HWHsUdJTF] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 40 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(5050001)(7020095)(20181119110)(201702061078)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031322404)(2017031323274)(2017031324274)(1601125500)(1603101475)(1701031045); SRVR:BN3NAM01HT208; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN3NAM01HT208: x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: FYJZuiRmAjECcwD8l7d0Rp+PIzSY4UQkKE7/IW/bxprGZolAgksID8innM6Oy8AzC5HDtoT7khpfztAMczR9HQkHxkMS32NiQFTrpi7nYQhEkTZrG9IuqQNex18SV7MgYXPzQBup914Bk12pboofa13+yJGXapHZLbwvptKf44nMiH4Tr9O4o/P9yBXsYFeN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8639a1e9-93f2-463d-5d75-08d6f7803314 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Jun 2019 02:12:10.3490 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3NAM01HT208 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] draft-bormann-cbor-sequence-00 and Big Data X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 02:12:13 -0000 draft-borman-cbor-sequence-00 has me thinking, it's a great first draft. It is unquestionably good to logically distinguish between a single CBOR da= ta item and a (potentially large) stream of CBOR data items. MIME type ma= kes very good sense, but we might also back it up with by allocating a uniq= ue tag (similar to the self-describing CBOR tag number 55799 in RFC7049 sec= tion 2.4.5)) as a NO-OP "magic number" at the beginning of a stream. I think the current name and content of the draft implies the order of the = data items in the stream might be logically significant. I suggest for th= is media type we should consider overall sequence implementation detail (li= ke the order of keys in a map). In particular, to facilitate building sca= lable big-data systems using CBOR, it would be valuable to recognize that i= f the order of data items is important, a CBOR Array is probably more appro= priate. =20 Perhaps s/sequence/stream/g might be appropriate in the document because a = "sequence" (to me) implies order preservation. For example, to collect data from a few million IoT devices, I would use a = scale-out architecture where several identical front-end machines are load = balanced with each one buffering the little cbor messages into a large buff= er. The front-end machines flush their buffers asynchronously, either whe= n the buffer is full or the after expiration of a period. Due to the asyn= chronous distributed buffering, the order of the data items may not reflect= the actual sequence of events. This non-sequential logging can be sig= nificant even in multicore-processors with sophisticated logging infrastruc= ture. Similarly, big-data distributed processing architectures, e.g., the map / r= educe algorithm; there should be no assumption of global ordering. But lo= cal ordering (within a block) can sometimes be very useful. For that rea= son, we might want to consider allocating a single-byte CBOR special (MT 7)= value for delimiting portions of a stream where the sequence can be consid= ered meaningful. For applications not sensitive to the order of the value= s, it would effectively be a NoOp, but when compression approaches are used= in a CBOR stream, it should probably reset the compression state. A 1-by= te NoOp in Major Type 7 can also be useful in padding a CBOR stream into a = "splittable" storage format, which aids in distributed analysis processing = using frameworks like Hadoop. Finally, by testing for if a NoOp appears at the last element in a stream, = it may be possible to detect if the application writing to the stream pause= d at that point. For those familiar with YAML, consider the "..." token. P.S. I wanted to thank the members of the WG who participated in moving CD= DL forward to become RFC8610, great work! From nobody Sat Jun 22 22:43:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94FDD1200EB for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2019 22:43:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tQBncju9cIxD for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2019 22:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A49131200A4 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2019 22:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.113] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45WhD449ztz1005; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:43:16 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:43:14 +0200 Cc: "cbor@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582961392.086924-4abc59b4b5628e9b18a9489a9059dfbb Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Burt Harris X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-bormann-cbor-sequence-00 and Big Data X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 05:43:21 -0000 Hi Burt, thanks for your kind words on RFC 8610 and CBOR sequences! Whether the sequence-preserving property of CBOR sequences is useful for = your application or not depends on the application. CBOR sequences do = not take a position on this, they just preserve the sequence (because = they can, at approximately zero cost). This is exactly as with CBOR = arrays, where it also depends on the application whether the actual = sequence means something or not. For serialization, they need to be in = a specific sequence, so we might as well make that available to the = application. There are applications that use CBOR sequences in a way = that cannot really be called a stream, so I think we are better off with = the =E2=80=9Csequence=E2=80=9D name. Tagging a CBOR sequence as such is a bit difficult because logically a = CBOR tag would be tagging the first item in the sequence. CBOR = sequences are best used in a context where it is clear what they are = (e.g., via a media type); I tend to think of them like CBOR arrays that = have been taken out of their package=E2=80=A6 Any special split markers can be provided by simply putting CBOR data = items for those markers into the CBOR sequence. And, yes, such an = application might be a good reason to allocate a CBOR Simple value or = two. We don=E2=80=99t need an equivalent for YAML =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6=E2=80= =9D, though, because the CBOR data items themselves are self-delimiting. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sun Jun 23 09:53:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 343701200C7; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 09:53:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D0nuUsANVdZm; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 09:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DA7012000F; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 09:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from client-0062.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0062.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.62]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45Wz4j4LtNzyh1; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:52:53 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <01f201d50ac9$d6b1abd0$84150370$@augustcellars.com> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:52:52 +0200 Cc: draft-bormann-cbor-sequence@ietf.org, cbor@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 583001569.77864-8f135aee96659190c603c16a0eb43d17 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <01f201d50ac9$d6b1abd0$84150370$@augustcellars.com> To: Jim Schaad X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Review of draft-bormann-cbor-sequence X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 16:53:01 -0000 Hi Jim, except for items 3 and 5 below, where I don=E2=80=99t quite agree, I = believe I have addressed all your comments as well as the other items = that popped up for -00 in Prague and on the mailing list. Please enjoy at: Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bormann-cbor-sequence/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bormann-cbor-sequence Diff2: = https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-bormann-cbor-sequence-01.txt Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On May 15, 2019, at 04:56, Jim Schaad wrote: >=20 > [=E2=80=A6] > 3. Section 2 - I think that I would remove the parenthesis in the = third > paragraph. This is almost the entire paragraph. I believe that is useful information, so I don=E2=80=99t think the = parenthesis should be removed. > [=E2=80=A6] > 5. Section 2 - A program, not the decoder, may also be able to = recover by > decoding individual fields looking for a pattern that matches an = expected > structure. As an example, looking for a byte which corresponds to an = array > of 3 items and then test decoding to see if it works and continue from = that > point. The specific recovery actions are out of scope (and the text says so). I don=E2=80=99t think we should give advice here for diagnostic tools = beyond what is needed for a true decoder.= From nobody Mon Jun 24 00:33:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietf.org Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49ECD12008B; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 00:33:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Barry Leiba via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: cbor-chairs@ietf.org, cbor@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Barry Leiba Message-ID: <156136162522.17502.17006799946775417333.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 00:33:45 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Barry Leiba's Yes on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:33:45 -0000 Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-cbor/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nit: "a mechanism other that" should be "a mechanism other than". "and add to a second edition of the specification if warranted" ... presumably this is in the re-charter because it *is* warranted. I suggest removing "if warranted". "The body of existing specifications that make use of CDDL is considered precious": Awwwwwwwww... :-) "It is currently expected that this would be done using a Wiki of some type. This work would not be expected to be published by the IETF." Yayyyyy! Thanks. Nit: that are either currently adopted by the working group, by other working groups, or as individual submissions" is not a parallel list. Maybe, "that are currently adopted by the working group, are work items in other working groups, or exist as individual submissions." Also, I suggest removing the paragraph break between this paragraph and the next. Nit: "Internet wide specifications" needs a hyphen: "Internet-wide specifications". From nobody Tue Jun 25 09:25:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietf.org Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D0BD120401; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:25:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alvaro Retana via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: cbor-chairs@ietf.org, cbor@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Alvaro Retana Message-ID: <156147992423.31177.7055113333809228268.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:25:24 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:25:25 -0000 Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-cbor/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a couple of editorial suggestions: (1) The charter talks about "using a DISPATCH like process". While most people might have an idea of what that is, I think mentioning it is not necessary. (2) The first category is: General purpose specifications that are expected to have broad usage: The working group will normally adopt and publish such proposals. Examples of proposals in this category are CBOR Sequence media type (draft-bormann-cbor-sequence) and Error Indications tag (draft-richter-cbor-error-tag). It would be nice if the examples of WG adoption were adopted documents. I think the description is enough -- let the WG decide if these are this type of documents. (3) Similarly, in the third category... "An example of this might be portions of draft-bormann-cbor-tags-oid..." The tentative language is not great, even for an example. From nobody Tue Jun 25 09:56:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95BEC12091D; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:56:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CG0mXethLz_C; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-f49.google.com (mail-io1-f49.google.com [209.85.166.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 335DB120926; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-f49.google.com with SMTP id u19so724114ior.9; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:55:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=32XqLPzYQlI+yLJNF62a0Cw6RItkf+XGl7EwN4GI6OY=; b=Qy4tsbU9GSR2eVIIY1UK5Lx+UEffUqW7AUYSo/oj9JLPlc04/ZHPDb3iVSq0/8zrHm vJqxu+v0nWgavVOBL3WDtAoStdEreovdb31mtiTlVnqGg6ONxAwxGUWyyeI4S1B0Tev9 AihVDXgbfF+qFLbbDHDfWBDtBmQiUy6gC6OFPCSPs4XNfjdEmQTenFip0mS9mMHSOaj4 e6/R5ph1vV+Hf0TcSuTYeqmzB7HQU3WlvuUm8ZbzBkBoAWvXiJ/9XhnG9phsV+EXAFh4 Xm2oRe066dJEDQC0XLTg3eFQY2kSNKer/Fl69KynwPCWn0aGL5YPvxbr0UOk/2v9KjNQ 8KtA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWWgHoBq0Wf7DYJsfN+Z31AsNs3sVd5PIHiCXbZY1fdX4eKLkgb 4kH6D218mcca++oKhyCDQ2l2AuFkVIer+jqYOW9Srzt4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqysDVcErR86wfh+7TwCoLThSaLL76lOUySQe0toFQva/0vSmh++ImM4Cf4Bk3x9T/YE2PloZFnA0D89KTg7cjc= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:9701:: with SMTP id w1mr3419327ioj.294.1561481747071; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:55:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <156147992423.31177.7055113333809228268.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <156147992423.31177.7055113333809228268.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Barry Leiba Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 17:55:36 +0100 Message-ID: To: Alvaro Retana Cc: The IESG , cbor@ietf.org, cbor-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:56:14 -0000 > (1) The charter talks about "using a DISPATCH like process". While most people > might have an idea of what that is, I think mentioning it is not necessary. Would noting RFC 7957 help? Barry From nobody Tue Jun 25 10:03:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42841202E1; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:03:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GWY-mizltr4y; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ed1-x529.google.com (mail-ed1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::529]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B9C612014E; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x529.google.com with SMTP id s49so28195956edb.1; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:03:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VmDCfW1nxw5B9x98gPwKu8ysXw9P73rBKxTztEEGD/E=; b=jGqjE5n04KnB0bbnEFZO6ZGOxt6SHehPHL2hjNKgnTQ6JkDcVd6yVyGnHbVqLkJ3AT 3badHqKyIk/mMC2y8yz0rBIx/vCulrPmG4s2dZeRjNKVuLjzBACAVdBqHtzGdp2lscKR 46VEWYPgbJ3qc35pBToAgZp40ankHV2iTtmAOMZtZ6dTYbYKLAqnPaC6PiQH1WG/Bu03 OlAIMWQAQaT6hiUzRiDM7UP/RXc0PfYbx0C9/b3nWiurZQZbhnL1cTLtQ+sOz4TFajKX GS0dVtiuqqxMq4paDQbBISmQik/hErm/maX3FTlkrmbJmj2jvI+PJNqDlhpMyfh5cjJN LcQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VmDCfW1nxw5B9x98gPwKu8ysXw9P73rBKxTztEEGD/E=; b=nUcTJocI4oY0vVJDJV1dVKBWF231uXEknmRw5kYiLAPbKrUzARWY/GRYQoHxu8QiFR VzQjGsiHrU9V6nr7rEI2pYwOin60EDdvM6t/siy23v5NUPnw/m1YAMCCDjRE/sRQmFaC SwzOhlhqj3bzrCwEemyEOmRFhzwgP8GPpEjZRy4Ubz6zuE0cqZt1VFFUz/kRL7pJfjfO caJ2pP/PZlg2IrOED5FOHqMTh4HDWIbI4x9qDjeh2O9toLL8ZUba3XGZyZUpCwUMAWQV UIlOAFR4EcTFT51CiFPh+v+4P5vqJZehX9ol7lCWn99OKTJDngYNVkEKWjfwWi2Xv18S GjEQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWxbyKDNClAluvPqQST9y4/lcYlYXtl/GE78tpP3FLBzcAY7qFa MSpLXSh4TEAHJQJthqHV3AP7qR/TAqUIsoMJViLOyg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqycZojM3AXr0Ta0Txp4loCKueuSaCMGZ7KeYjf7YnWnogOzrtWNEHtQ+s08w+FZPQdhUlOrNEqOss821hGiGdA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:3ed1:: with SMTP id d17mr12756711ejj.285.1561482211997; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:03:31 -0400 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: References: <156147992423.31177.7055113333809228268.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:03:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: Barry Leiba Cc: cbor@ietf.org, The IESG , cbor-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000091c00f058c28e810" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 17:03:35 -0000 --00000000000091c00f058c28e810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On June 25, 2019 at 12:55:47 PM, Barry Leiba (barryleiba@computer.org) wrote: > (1) The charter talks about "using a DISPATCH like process". While most people > might have an idea of what that is, I think mentioning it is not necessary. Would noting RFC 7957 help? Sure. Thanks! Alvaro. --00000000000091c00f058c28e810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
On June 25, 2019 at 12:55:47 PM, Barry Leiba (barryleiba@computer.org) wrote:
> (1) The charter talks about "using a DISPA= TCH like process". While most people=C2=A0
> might have an i= dea of what that is, I think mentioning it is not necessary.=C2=A0

Would noting RFC 7957 help?=C2=A0

Sure.
=
Th= anks!
<= br>
Alv= aro.
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Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:15:22 +0000 From: Burt Harris To: "cbor@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Re: [Cbor] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdUrka1XelnVN7wORpemWhTRQo0hgQ== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:15:22 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:813E8A5043B893A1B59439009A9C564492F47E2BAC479BD71960490B7D9A6686; UpperCasedChecksum:FA25CD187E44D8C3E3C119BF11511A69C87FF1E05572DB652AF8E2A2B5735785; SizeAsReceived:6591; Count:40 x-tmn: [jOwNwWIENMtbnFiU8+Ez2PpzPhx9fyLJ] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 40 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(5050001)(7020095)(20181119110)(201702061078)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031322404)(2017031323274)(2017031324274)(1601125500)(1603101475)(1701031045); SRVR:CO1NAM03HT117; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CO1NAM03HT117: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: dpH42jzswunoKXxtEEzuCpYGne0nyjkpQAqcoOqM00/34UQ7rG/cfcgxONWNHDzEKcVBSBHdOOStXT6aj4r3/nas8F0X61LHDlJUpG1pJYld7NGsxjwd+3bD/HbGzEe+xwQVdOLP9pSqbPd1VyhA4bkuO7T71Wuz/KPcs27h/qGH9RIvqLepEzjvZBtBFEZJ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We should probably use the compound term "DISPATCH-Style" and mention the t= he charter of the DISPATCH working group. Mentioning the RFC helped, but = better yet might be linking to https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/secdispatch/= charter/ --_000_MWHPR22MB0336D7DB50F9D2250543FFC292E30MWHPR22MB0336namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We should probably use the compound term “DISP= ATCH-Style” and mention the the charter of the DISPATCH working group= .   Mentioning the RFC helped, but better yet might be linking to https://da= tatracker.ietf.org/wg/secdispatch/charter/ 

 

 

 

--_000_MWHPR22MB0336D7DB50F9D2250543FFC292E30MWHPR22MB0336namp_-- From nobody Tue Jun 25 20:59:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietf.org Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55A012061C; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:59:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adam Roach via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: cbor-chairs@ietf.org, cbor@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Adam Roach Message-ID: <156152155760.31137.14743795939001646314.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:59:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Adam Roach's Block on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 03:59:18 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: Block When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-cbor/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BLOCK: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a "DISCUSS-discuss" style block, in the spirit of backing up and making sure we're making the right overall decision here. I'd like us to have a short conversation about whether it makes sense for the CDDL work to continue in the CBOR working group. Given that it has been rescoped and renamed to be a more general-purpose schema language covering not just CBOR, but the much broader JSON universe, it seems that this work is extremely likely to have a broad constituency outside of those people who typically participate in working groups that focus on IoT use-cases. Keeping it part of CBOR does not seem to serve that community well. Should we consider splitting the CDDL update and maintenance work off into a separate working group, rather than rechartering CBOR with the rather significant expansion considered in this charter proposal? From nobody Tue Jun 25 22:53:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D711D120123; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 22:53:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0y0Za7a0_Egq; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 22:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D9021200EC; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 22:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.110] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45YXJZ2WVTzyYX; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:53:34 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <156152155760.31137.14743795939001646314.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:53:33 +0200 Cc: The IESG , cbor@ietf.org, cbor-chairs@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 583221211.577556-b6285d443e5b2f525ede3134c4d5273f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <156152155760.31137.14743795939001646314.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Adam Roach X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Adam Roach's Block on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:53:40 -0000 Hi Adam, these are very good questions indeed. As you may have noticed, the rescoping beyond IoT is not just happening = to CDDL. CBOR is now being used in a wide variety of specifications that have = varying aspects of IoTness to them, e.g., consider WebAuthn and CTAP2. = This is also visible in the set of people who are contributing. So I don=E2=80=99t think the rechartered CBOR WG as proposed will be an = obscure IoT only working group. Of the three jobs of the rechartered WG, the CBORbis part has the = shortest timeline. Once that is finished, we are left with CDDL and the Tags documents (and = occasional media type documents). While Tags are specific to CBOR, they = also could be viewed as a component model that will increasingly be used = in CDDL as well. The more general purpose (or internet-wide) Tags = documents that would be worked on by the WG would flow together with the = desire to componentize CDDL. With respect to the broader field of =E2=80=9Cschema languages=E2=80=9D, = the extreme version of your proposal would be to merge into one WG the = existing netmod WG (the work on YANG), the CDDL work of the CBOR WG, and = the various approaches to data modeling being discussed on the JSON WG = mailing list right now. Clearly, data modeling has become an important = aspect of the field of protocol development. But that does not mean all = that work needs to be in one WG. The constituents are overlapping, but = mostly distinct: operations and management, application layer and = security protocol design, application API development. Creating a new =E2=80=9Cdata modeling for JSON and friends=E2=80=9D WG = would send a signal that we take the data modeling area more seriously. = But it would also defocus from the evolution of CDDL as one description = technique in this space; it seems to me that the current approach of = evolving a number of coherent designs in a competitive manner is = ultimately more productive. A pure CDDL working group would certainly work, but would leave the work = on Tags on the sidelines =E2=80=94 keeping a CBOR working group just for = the Tags work (once CBORbis is completed) doesn=E2=80=99t seem to make a = lot of sense, and we want to achieve a higher degree of integration = between components work and language work anyway. So I think the charter proposal has it about right, with the possible = exception of the need for a signal that this WG is not just about IoT = any more. But that signal can be outside the charter. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On Jun 26, 2019, at 05:59, Adam Roach via Datatracker = wrote: >=20 > Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: Block >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-cbor/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > BLOCK: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > This is a "DISCUSS-discuss" style block, in the spirit of backing up = and making > sure we're making the right overall decision here. >=20 > I'd like us to have a short conversation about whether it makes sense = for the > CDDL work to continue in the CBOR working group. Given that it has = been > rescoped and renamed to be a more general-purpose schema language = covering not > just CBOR, but the much broader JSON universe, it seems that this work = is > extremely likely to have a broad constituency outside of those people = who > typically participate in working groups that focus on IoT use-cases. = Keeping it > part of CBOR does not seem to serve that community well. >=20 > Should we consider splitting the CDDL update and maintenance work off = into a > separate working group, rather than rechartering CBOR with the rather > significant expansion considered in this charter proposal? >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CBOR mailing list > CBOR@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor >=20 From nobody Wed Jun 26 08:03:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietf.org Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 797111202AD; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:03:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Vigoureux via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: cbor-chairs@ietf.org, cbor@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Martin Vigoureux Message-ID: <156156141243.20102.16028455341094597596.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:03:32 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Martin Vigoureux's No Objection on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:03:33 -0000 Martin Vigoureux has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-cbor/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello, I have few comments: * why only mention verified errata? what about "held for document update" type of errata? I also note there are 4 Reported errata. A more general sentence could be: "The CBOR working group will update RFC 7049 based on existing errata." * I find "popular" a bit subjective. Is that really needed? * s/a Full Internet Standard/an Internet Standard/ Thank you -m From nobody Wed Jun 26 08:27:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietf.org Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71B81202AD; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:27:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind_via_Datatracker?= To: "The IESG" Cc: cbor-chairs@ietf.org, cbor@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= Message-ID: <156156286460.20075.13525430993942460353.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:27:44 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_Block_on_charter-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?cbor-01-01=3A_=28with_BLOCK=29?= X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:27:45 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: Block When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-cbor/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BLOCK: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Not sure if my two points justify a block, so I'm happy to change my position if other ADs tell me to, but I'm also not certain if I want to go for "No Objection". Here are my points: 1) First on this: "After that, the CBOR working group will monitor issues found with the CBOR specification and, if needed, will produce an updated document." This intention seems to contradict the idea of an Internet Standard in RFC2026 a bit: "A specification for which significant implementation and successful operational experience has been obtained may be elevated to the Internet Standard level. An Internet Standard (which may simply be referred to as a Standard) is characterized by a high degree of technical maturity and by a generally held belief that the specified protocol or service provides significant benefit to the Internet community." Maybe this is nit-picking but if the group is not sure if there are further issue, one should probably simply not push for Internet Standard... 2) I find the later part of the charter rather generic (starting which "There are a number of additional CBOR tagged types..."). I also don't really understand the difference of "General purpose" and "Internet-wide". These are two different aspects for me that don't exclude each other. I would rather like to see a charter that actually limits the technical scope rather than talking about a generic process (that may or could be or is applied in other groups as well). From nobody Wed Jun 26 08:32:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietf.org Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7AF1201D5; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:32:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: cbor-chairs@ietf.org, cbor@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Alissa Cooper Message-ID: <156156315741.19968.250842784323555012.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:32:37 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:32:38 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-cbor/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with Mirja's second point. From nobody Wed Jun 26 09:46:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07885120203; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 09:46:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WltgQi4IkjzD; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 09:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6264F1200C4; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 09:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from client-0057.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0057.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45Ypng1PQSzydX; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 18:46:15 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <156156286460.20075.13525430993942460353.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 18:46:14 +0200 Cc: The IESG , cbor@ietf.org, cbor-chairs@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 583260372.693769-02ae78bf8b3efcca094ef01864a4d4f9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <156156286460.20075.13525430993942460353.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_Block_on_charter-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?cbor-01-01=3A_=28with_BLOCK=29?= X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:46:20 -0000 Hi Mirja, good points. Details below. > On Jun 26, 2019, at 17:27, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind via Datatracker = wrote: >=20 > Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: Block >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-cbor/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > BLOCK: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Not sure if my two points justify a block, so I'm happy to change my = position > if other ADs tell me to, but I'm also not certain if I want to go for = "No > Objection". >=20 > Here are my points: >=20 > 1) First on this: > "After that, the CBOR working group will monitor issues found with the = CBOR > specification and, if needed, will produce an updated document." This = intention > seems to contradict the idea of an Internet Standard in RFC2026 a bit: > "A specification for which significant implementation and successful > operational experience has been obtained may be elevated to the > Internet Standard level. An Internet Standard (which may simply be > referred to as a Standard) is characterized by a high degree of > technical maturity and by a generally held belief that the specified > protocol or service provides significant benefit to the Internet > community." > Maybe this is nit-picking but if the group is not sure if there are = further > issue, one should probably simply not push for Internet Standard=E2=80=A6= Of course the group is sure about that!!!1one Some STD documents do have updates (say, RFC 791 is updated by RFC1349, = RFC2474, RFC6864), but I would actually also feel better without = this apparent escape hatch. We do want to get this right! > 2) I find the later part of the charter rather generic (starting which = "There > are a number of additional CBOR tagged types..."). I also don't really > understand the difference of "General purpose" and "Internet-wide". = These are > two different aspects for me that don't exclude each other. I would = rather like > to see a charter that actually limits the technical scope rather than = talking > about a generic process (that may or could be or is applied in other = groups as > well). My fault. This was specifically about CBOR Tag definitions, until we = noticed that we might be having some glue/housekeeping like the CBOR = sequence document. But really, this is almost all about CBOR Tag = definitions. General purpose vs. Internet-wide: Not all usage of CBOR occurs on the = Internet, so there is a difference, but yes, these generally will = overlap. (Example for non-Internet usage: CBOR can be a great log file = format.) So when is a Tag spec in scope: When we expect a general purpose and/or = Internet-wide usage of the Tag (or other CBOR specific housekeeping = document like a media type definition). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jun 26 21:37:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietf.org Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEA61120110; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 21:37:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: cbor-chairs@ietf.org, cbor@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <156161024386.20075.12704154800776897327.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 21:37:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 04:37:24 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-cbor/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I also agree with Mirja's second point, and with Alvaro's note that examples of WG adoption work better when they are actually WG-adopted documents. The enumeration of potential inputs to the DISPATCH-like process seems potentially quite broad, though I suppose that need not translate to "approval" or adoption by the WG. I found the wording confusing in some parts of the charter, such as "collect these features", the treatment of CDDL evolution as a "sequence of editions", and what makes an "Internet wide [sic]" specification. This work would not be expected to be published by the IETF. "as an RFC", presumably? From nobody Thu Jun 27 06:14:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietf.org Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BA441202E7; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 06:14:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Roman Danyliw via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: cbor-chairs@ietf.org, cbor@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Roman Danyliw Message-ID: <156164124047.21323.7390079965019244513.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 06:14:00 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:14:07 -0000 Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-cbor/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I support Mirja's second DISCUSS item. I'd add to it that the distinction between "Internet-wide" and "Narrow purpose" is also not clear to me. In particular, I'm not sure why "Narrow purpose" couldn't also be published through the ISE. From nobody Fri Jun 28 16:00:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietf.org Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0F112097E; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:57:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: cbor@ietf.org, aamelnikov@fastmail.fm X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <156176267411.11015.3764078456832696040.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:57:54 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] cbor - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 105 X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 22:58:03 -0000 Dear Francesca Palombini, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. cbor Session 1 (1:30 requested) Tuesday, 23 July 2019, Morning Session I 1000-1200 Room Name: Sainte-Catherine size: 100 --------------------------------------------- Special Note: 1000-1130 iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/sessions/cbor.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Concise Binary Object Representation Maintenance and Extensions Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Francesca Palombini Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: saag ace core lamps cose Second Priority: emu cfrg secdispatch tls t2trg suit oauth rats Third Priority: anima teep 6tisch curdle httpbis dtn dots People who must be present: Carsten Bormann Alexey Melnikov Jim Schaad Francesca Palombini Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please avoid collision with any Sec and IoT-related BoFs Please avoid collision with lake (Lightweight AKE) --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sun Jun 30 10:48:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A6631200F7; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 10:48:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lNZg8A7E9vxV; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 10:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F34212010C; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 10:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 10:48:30 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Carsten Bormann' CC: , References: <01f201d50ac9$d6b1abd0$84150370$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 10:48:28 -0700 Message-ID: <0e8901d52f6c$08291060$187b3120$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQImhLicfHZBN1Ohg94FAkXRvyHrVAIUMN81pgErdRA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Review of draft-bormann-cbor-sequence X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 17:48:39 -0000 See below. -----Original Message----- From: Carsten Bormann =20 Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2019 9:53 AM To: Jim Schaad Cc: draft-bormann-cbor-sequence@ietf.org; cbor@ietf.org Subject: Re: Review of draft-bormann-cbor-sequence=20 Hi Jim, except for items 3 and 5 below, where I don=E2=80=99t quite agree, I = believe I have addressed all your comments as well as the other items = that popped up for -00 in Prague and on the mailing list. Please enjoy at: Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bormann-cbor-sequence/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bormann-cbor-sequence Diff2: = https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-bormann-cbor-sequence-01.txt Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On May 15, 2019, at 04:56, Jim Schaad wrote: >=20 > [=E2=80=A6] > 3. Section 2 - I think that I would remove the parenthesis in the=20 > third paragraph. This is almost the entire paragraph. I believe that is useful information, so I don=E2=80=99t think the = parenthesis should be removed. [JLS] I am not suggesting that the sentence be removed, just the = parenthesis characters. > [=E2=80=A6] > 5. Section 2 - A program, not the decoder, may also be able to=20 > recover by decoding individual fields looking for a pattern that=20 > matches an expected structure. As an example, looking for a byte=20 > which corresponds to an array of 3 items and then test decoding to see = > if it works and continue from that point. The specific recovery actions are out of scope (and the text says so). I don=E2=80=99t think we should give advice here for diagnostic tools = beyond what is needed for a true decoder. [JLS] The problem I have with this argument is that you are actually = giving an example - should that example then be deleted? From nobody Sun Jun 30 11:43:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A74120187; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 11:43:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L0DFMAkF7nTI; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 11:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 119FF120176; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 11:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 11:42:54 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Barry Leiba' , 'The IESG' CC: , References: <156136162522.17502.17006799946775417333.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <156136162522.17502.17006799946775417333.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 11:42:53 -0700 Message-ID: <0e9201d52f73$a1f85a50$e5e90ef0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQMD07XSb0WNI8+/zCCX7XjtWWv02qRXProg Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Barry Leiba's Yes on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 18:43:04 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: Barry Leiba via Datatracker =20 Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 12:34 AM To: The IESG Cc: cbor-chairs@ietf.org; cbor@ietf.org Subject: Barry Leiba's Yes on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-cbor/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nit: "a mechanism other that" should be "a mechanism other than". "and add to a second edition of the specification if warranted" ... = presumably this is in the re-charter because it *is* warranted. I = suggest removing "if warranted". [JLS] I would be happy for a re-wording, but the "if warranted" related = to individual features and not to the entire process of producing a = second version. A better string might be "where warrented" "The body of existing specifications that make use of CDDL is considered precious": Awwwwwwwww... :-) [JLS] Not actionable? "It is currently expected that this would be done using a Wiki of some = type. This work would not be expected to be published by the IETF." Yayyyyy! = Thanks. Nit: that are either currently adopted by the working group, by other = working groups, or as individual submissions" is not a parallel list. = Maybe, "that are currently adopted by the working group, are work items = in other working groups, or exist as individual submissions." Also, I = suggest removing the paragraph break between this paragraph and the = next. Nit: "Internet wide specifications" needs a hyphen: "Internet-wide = specifications". From nobody Sun Jun 30 13:04:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 255371201AF; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:04:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JU_eW2_2nJ98; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 419D212019B; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:03:50 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Roman Danyliw' , 'The IESG' CC: , References: <156164124047.21323.7390079965019244513.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <156164124047.21323.7390079965019244513.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:03:49 -0700 Message-ID: <0e9501d52f7e$f09d67d0$d1d83770$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKMAaInjJKYun2fr3m3NZTZF1ZhdqVG+niQ Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 20:04:04 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: Roman Danyliw via Datatracker =20 Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2019 6:14 AM To: The IESG Cc: cbor-chairs@ietf.org; cbor@ietf.org Subject: Roman Danyliw's No Objection on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with = COMMENT) Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-cbor/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I support Mirja's second DISCUSS item. I'd add to it that the = distinction between "Internet-wide" and "Narrow purpose" is also not = clear to me. In particular, I'm not sure why "Narrow purpose" couldn't = also be published through the ISE. [JLS] In my mind the ISE is a different forum. I do not consider the = IETF and the ISE to be the same things. From nobody Sun Jun 30 14:36:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8881201CC; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:36:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DyQQp-m_1I_m; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-f51.google.com (mail-io1-f51.google.com [209.85.166.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9342112009C; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-f51.google.com with SMTP id k20so24161335ios.10; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:36:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+sGqarmttBmfLf/X+5HX5CWJVDdUFBRTBMDM0KEGP8w=; b=jubsmH/mXWTSwtwLTir2QRDpivAa+DgN6eEkbt9FgrT/lx5fMQpfLnO/uV/8jB624P kqcOmcvELLaQLH0hQksbrXaL2On63HXC0DivhLzNxNnGpnNOwxAnnXBJyjaD6/905QgB W0oAtT3u9sze3J8FVowyr2FdjES0yoLgpX2zHv03w/IaHvV/qmJRkWzbzU8CMWBBdW+f W/bBwY8U2U0Svj+NDqbSpOfDux/nJzzZ5qKV3ngANqSQCd5zl3iRp0Szqxh9H3iFeUgZ t+bZBfshwY/PmyTVGQBrQSQv6CUTXbWnLkSBlzCpq8688GyPTPGsfIca5po/q0vWimxn TRgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVwL3Bw2qvMyc5fGOzsODptnFHk1wCjXBvXLjvJ57NRJ2hzIpzp p6zuMZpYM7pRt24bW+Sfov9FbwECz1IwsB/ltGGwCA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyn0ybsAgb2zpDR+2n3AJfTEGCuJR/t1On4+ssFpzBsfevtTFoLprEIM+hOp3UUdXUmZCLI+7clpG4BQzvC/30= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:b497:: with SMTP id d145mr9426967iof.17.1561930583477; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:36:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <156136162522.17502.17006799946775417333.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <0e9201d52f73$a1f85a50$e5e90ef0$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: <0e9201d52f73$a1f85a50$e5e90ef0$@augustcellars.com> From: Barry Leiba Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 17:36:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: Jim Schaad Cc: The IESG , cbor-chairs@ietf.org, cbor@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Barry Leiba's Yes on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 21:36:26 -0000 Hi, Jim, >> "and add to a second edition of the specification if warranted" ... presumably this is in the >> re-charter because it *is* warranted. I suggest removing "if warranted". > > [JLS] I would be happy for a re-wording, but the "if warranted" related to individual features > and not to the entire process of producing a second version. A better string might be > "where warranted" Yeh, that works. >> "The body of existing specifications that make use of CDDL is considered >> precious": Awwwwwwwww... :-) > > [JLS] Not actionable? And not expected to be; it was a silly. Barry From nobody Sun Jun 30 14:55:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B00B81201D3; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:55:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=felipegasper.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LLIXppVO5Lk3; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web1.siteocity.com (web1.siteocity.com [67.227.147.204]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDF081201D1; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:55:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=felipegasper.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Wk6cnkkPmwMp3ZFNrOHlKS/yMNIejcm21LDYvaiVgO8=; b=HgKxxfVGPUh6HMQYrHEPwVzFK bATiDyvq4kMLlh1Ohr9aU5b+MBtpE31v0sQHCj/lreC5cAOgcc29lzJg1j8akJo/9+MFMhtvQjdPl ffHZlgHHnFxkdrD+PBeda9NvEKpJGMrqK5PKhE7qO3ZbFiqjf+7966n7veFp521xBQ96OAGP9Ia+L 1G/a88oRH2yLA2C4xQdCpe/YtVbOBDQx6eBH9Ppbr76xtSm/V9DkHhgZXoBBZ0VQD7K+TcXVjjHvv U5wMw0AeM6vgYNVtetR3RZmsnwGrcSdU/q+6gf9gTMsN9WOaC5Y+CAy/V2lFkjbZCiP2lGUHmi3vn zZ9Anz8kg==; Received: from [149.248.87.38] (port=51358 helo=[192.168.86.56]) by web1.siteocity.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hhhnX-006mKs-79; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 16:55:48 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Felipe Gasper X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16F203) In-Reply-To: <0e8901d52f6c$08291060$187b3120$@augustcellars.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 17:55:45 -0400 Cc: Carsten Bormann , draft-bormann-cbor-sequence@ietf.org, cbor@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4AF53D16-C6AE-4D53-9A3A-DF442D827D86@felipegasper.com> References: <01f201d50ac9$d6b1abd0$84150370$@augustcellars.com> <0e8901d52f6c$08291060$187b3120$@augustcellars.com> To: Jim Schaad X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - web1.siteocity.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - felipegasper.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: web1.siteocity.com: authenticated_id: fgasper/from_h X-Authenticated-Sender: web1.siteocity.com: felipe@felipegasper.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Review of draft-bormann-cbor-sequence X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 21:55:52 -0000 What is the advantage of defining a CBOR data sequence as a simple concatena= tion versus a tagged CBOR array of indefinite length? Thank you! -FG > On Jun 30, 2019, at 1:48 PM, Jim Schaad wrote: >=20 > See below. >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Carsten Bormann =20 > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2019 9:53 AM > To: Jim Schaad > Cc: draft-bormann-cbor-sequence@ietf.org; cbor@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Review of draft-bormann-cbor-sequence=20 >=20 > Hi Jim, >=20 > except for items 3 and 5 below, where I don=E2=80=99t quite agree, I belie= ve I have addressed all your comments as well as the other items that popped= up for -00 in Prague and on the mailing list. >=20 > Please enjoy at: >=20 > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bormann-cbor-sequence/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bormann-cbor-sequence > Diff2: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-bormann-cbor-sequenc= e-01.txt >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 >=20 >> On May 15, 2019, at 04:56, Jim Schaad wrote: >>=20 >> [=E2=80=A6] >> 3. Section 2 - I think that I would remove the parenthesis in the=20 >> third paragraph. This is almost the entire paragraph. >=20 > I believe that is useful information, so I don=E2=80=99t think the parenth= esis should be removed. >=20 > [JLS] I am not suggesting that the sentence be removed, just the parenthes= is characters. >=20 >> [=E2=80=A6] >> 5. Section 2 - A program, not the decoder, may also be able to=20 >> recover by decoding individual fields looking for a pattern that=20 >> matches an expected structure. As an example, looking for a byte=20 >> which corresponds to an array of 3 items and then test decoding to see=20= >> if it works and continue from that point. >=20 > The specific recovery actions are out of scope (and the text says so). > I don=E2=80=99t think we should give advice here for diagnostic tools beyo= nd what is needed for a true decoder. >=20 > [JLS] The problem I have with this argument is that you are actually givin= g an example - should that example then be deleted? >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CBOR mailing list > CBOR@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor From nobody Sun Jun 30 18:19:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A4131201E3; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 18:18:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s5Jj3nXCD7fb; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 18:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A05C61201E8; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 18:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 18:18:49 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Felipe Gasper' CC: , , 'Carsten Bormann' References: <01f201d50ac9$d6b1abd0$84150370$@augustcellars.com> <0e8901d52f6c$08291060$187b3120$@augustcellars.com> <4AF53D16-C6AE-4D53-9A3A-DF442D827D86@felipegasper.com> In-Reply-To: <4AF53D16-C6AE-4D53-9A3A-DF442D827D86@felipegasper.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 18:18:48 -0700 Message-ID: <0eb801d52faa$f118fc70$d34af550$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQImhLicfHZBN1Ohg94FAkXRvyHrVAIUMN81Ar0OSnoBzkljRaXdUB1A Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Review of draft-bormann-cbor-sequence X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 01:19:00 -0000 This is the text I was referring to An implementation may be able to recover from some errors in a sequence of bytes that is almost, but not entirely a well-formed encoded CBOR data item. -----Original Message----- From: CBOR On Behalf Of Felipe Gasper Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2019 2:56 PM To: Jim Schaad Cc: draft-bormann-cbor-sequence@ietf.org; cbor@ietf.org; Carsten Bormann = Subject: Re: [Cbor] Review of draft-bormann-cbor-sequence What is the advantage of defining a CBOR data sequence as a simple = concatenation versus a tagged CBOR array of indefinite length? Thank you! -FG > On Jun 30, 2019, at 1:48 PM, Jim Schaad = wrote: >=20 > See below. >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Carsten Bormann > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2019 9:53 AM > To: Jim Schaad > Cc: draft-bormann-cbor-sequence@ietf.org; cbor@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Review of draft-bormann-cbor-sequence >=20 > Hi Jim, >=20 > except for items 3 and 5 below, where I don=E2=80=99t quite agree, I = believe I have addressed all your comments as well as the other items = that popped up for -00 in Prague and on the mailing list. >=20 > Please enjoy at: >=20 > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bormann-cbor-sequence/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bormann-cbor-sequence > Diff2: = https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-bormann-cbor-sequence-01.txt >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 >=20 >> On May 15, 2019, at 04:56, Jim Schaad wrote: >>=20 >> [=E2=80=A6] >> 3. Section 2 - I think that I would remove the parenthesis in the=20 >> third paragraph. This is almost the entire paragraph. >=20 > I believe that is useful information, so I don=E2=80=99t think the = parenthesis should be removed. >=20 > [JLS] I am not suggesting that the sentence be removed, just the = parenthesis characters. >=20 >> [=E2=80=A6] >> 5. Section 2 - A program, not the decoder, may also be able to=20 >> recover by decoding individual fields looking for a pattern that=20 >> matches an expected structure. As an example, looking for a byte=20 >> which corresponds to an array of 3 items and then test decoding to=20 >> see if it works and continue from that point. >=20 > The specific recovery actions are out of scope (and the text says so). > I don=E2=80=99t think we should give advice here for diagnostic tools = beyond what is needed for a true decoder. >=20 > [JLS] The problem I have with this argument is that you are actually = giving an example - should that example then be deleted? >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CBOR mailing list > CBOR@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor _______________________________________________ CBOR mailing list CBOR@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor