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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <6F9AAA0F446E06438ECED7B0D6A679D5@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM6PR07MB4584.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 28c84b4b-a07a-4170-83bd-08d8818947f6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Nov 2020 12:49:49.0266 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: /d/M1LCREEdVKdUUdJwuTy5HmAQKR/STPu/x4B3MCgNhYv1Wh7bMkcNrr9VUtqHLZrT7gmbdpoX80aYdhYQ2MDvWAoAxq6M97kChYWl7js8= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB5397 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 12:49:54 -0000 SGksDQoNCkkgdGhlIG1vc3QgaW1wb3J0YW50IG1pc3NpbmcgcGllY2UgaW4gUkZDIDg2MTAgaXMg dGhlIGxhY2sgb2YgQ0RETCBmb3IgQ0JPUiBTZXF1ZW5jZXMgKFJGQyA4NzQyKSBhbmQgSSB0aGlu ayBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWNib3ItY2RkbC1jb250cm9sIHdvdWxkIGJlIGEgZ29vZCBwbGFjZSB0byBh ZGQgQ0RETCBmb3IgdGhhdC4NCg0KQ0JPUiBzZXF1ZW5jZXMgaGFzIGFscmVhZHkgYmVlbiBzdGFu ZGFyZGl6ZWQgaW4gUkZDIDg3NDIuIENCT1Igc2VxdWVuY2VzIGFyZSB1c2VkIHF1aXRlIGhlYXZp bHkgaW4gSUVURiBkb2N1bWVudHMgc3VjaCBhcyBSRkMgODc2OSwgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi02dGlzY2gt bWluaW1hbC1zZWN1cml0eSwgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1sYWtlLWVkaG9jLCBkcmFmdC1wYWxvbWJpbmkt Y29yZS1vc2NvcmUtZWRob2MsIGRyYWZ0LW1hdHRzc29uLWNvc2UtY2Jvci1jZXJ0LWNvbXByZXNz LCBldGMuDQoNCkkgZG9uJ3QgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCBhbGwgdGhlIGNvbXBsZXhpdGllcyBvZiBDRERM IGZvcm1hbGlzbSwgYnV0IHRoaXMgc2VlbXMgbGlrZSBhIHF1aXRlIGVhc3kgdGhpbmcgdG8gc29s dmUuIEkgZG8gbm90IGNhcmUgZXhhY3RseSB3aGljaCBub3RhdGlvbiBpcyB1c2VkLCBidXQgY291 bGQgd2UgcGxlYXNlIGp1c3QgYWdyZWUgb24gc29tZXRoaW5nIGFuZCBwdXQgaW4gYSBkcmFmdC4N Cg0KVGhlIG5vdGF0aW9uIGNvdWxkIGJlIHNvbWV0aGluZyBsaWtlOg0KDQotIHJldXNlIHRoZSBD RERMIG5vdGF0aW9uIGZvciBncm91cCAoIC4uLiApDQotIHJldXNlIHRoZSBEaWFnbm9zdGljIE5v dGF0aW9uIGZvciBDQk9SIHNlcXVlbmNlcyA8PCAuLi4gPj4NCi0gU29tZSBtb2RpZmljYXRpb24g b2YgdGhlIENEREwgYXJyYXkgbm90YXRpb24gXSAuLi4gWw0KLSBTb21ldGhpbmcgbG9va2luZyBs aWtlIHN5bWJvbCBzd2VhcmluZyAjJCVAIyQlIC4uLiAjJCVAIyQlDQouLi4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0K Sm9obg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQo= From nobody Thu Nov 5 06:28:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFBB03A1238 for ; 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Thu, 5 Nov 2020 15:28:46 +0100 Received: from [192.168.16.50] (79.234.121.161) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 15:28:39 +0100 To: John Mattsson , "cbor@ietf.org" References: <317AB3AB-B1E9-4AD9-911E-559D166E2788@ericsson.com> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 15:28:38 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <317AB3AB-B1E9-4AD9-911E-559D166E2788@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [79.234.121.161] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 14:28:57 -0000 Hi John, as the control for cborseq is introduced in: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8610#section-3.8.4 and RFC8742 states that: > Currently, CDDL does not provide for unadorned CBOR Sequences as a > top-level subject of a specification. For now, the suggestion is to > use an array for the top-level rule, as is used for the ".cborseq" > control operator, and add English text that explains that the > specification is really about a CBOR Sequence with the elements of > the array it seems to me that you are asking for a specific CDDL notation that can represent a cborseq as a top-level subject. Why is using an array here not good enough in your case? Viele Grüße, Henk On 05.11.20 13:49, John Mattsson wrote: > Hi, > > I the most important missing piece in RFC 8610 is the lack of CDDL for CBOR Sequences (RFC 8742) and I think draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control would be a good place to add CDDL for that. > > CBOR sequences has already been standardized in RFC 8742. CBOR sequences are used quite heavily in IETF documents such as RFC 8769, draft-ietf-6tisch-minimal-security, draft-ietf-lake-edhoc, draft-palombini-core-oscore-edhoc, draft-mattsson-cose-cbor-cert-compress, etc. > > I don't understand all the complexities of CDDL formalism, but this seems like a quite easy thing to solve. I do not care exactly which notation is used, but could we please just agree on something and put in a draft. > > The notation could be something like: > > - reuse the CDDL notation for group ( ... ) > - reuse the Diagnostic Notation for CBOR sequences << ... >> > - Some modification of the CDDL array notation ] ... [ > - Something looking like symbol swearing #$%@#$% ... #$%@#$% > ... > > Cheers, > John > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CBOR mailing list > CBOR@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor > From nobody Thu Nov 5 06:54:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C693A1302 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 06:54:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org 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(141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 16:02:08 +0100 To: John Mattsson , "cbor@ietf.org" References: <317AB3AB-B1E9-4AD9-911E-559D166E2788@ericsson.com> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: <3f63613d-9571-f739-d517-042b4ca9398d@sit.fraunhofer.de> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 16:02:08 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [79.234.121.161] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 15:02:27 -0000 Hi John, I might be totally missing something obvious here - it's just that I am having a hard time visualizing your problem at the moment. Maybe asking the obvious can help (me getting a grasp of the issue). Why does the following recommendation from RFC8764 not help you? > my-embedded-cbor-seq = bytes .cborseq my-array > my-array = [* my-element] > my-element = my-foo / my-bar Viele Grüße, Henk On 05.11.20 15:54, John Mattsson wrote: > Hi Henk, > > To quote RFC 8764 > > 1) "CBOR Sequences are already supported as contents of byte strings using the ".cborseq" control operator" > 2) "CDDL does not provide for unadorned CBOR Sequences as a top-level subject of a specification" > > All the document I cited do 2) not 1) .cborseq as currently specified is not a solution. > > Cheers, > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Henk Birkholz > Date: Thursday, 5 November 2020 at 15:29 > To: John Mattsson , "cbor@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences > > Hi John, > > as the control for cborseq is introduced in: > >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8610#section-3.8.4 > > and RFC8742 states that: > >> Currently, CDDL does not provide for unadorned CBOR Sequences as a >> top-level subject of a specification. For now, the suggestion is to >> use an array for the top-level rule, as is used for the ".cborseq" >> control operator, and add English text that explains that the >> specification is really about a CBOR Sequence with the elements of >> the array > > it seems to me that you are asking for a specific CDDL notation that can > represent a cborseq as a top-level subject. Why is using an array here > not good enough in your case? > > Viele Grüße, > > Henk > > On 05.11.20 13:49, John Mattsson wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I the most important missing piece in RFC 8610 is the lack of CDDL for CBOR Sequences (RFC 8742) and I think draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control would be a good place to add CDDL for that. >> >> CBOR sequences has already been standardized in RFC 8742. CBOR sequences are used quite heavily in IETF documents such as RFC 8769, draft-ietf-6tisch-minimal-security, draft-ietf-lake-edhoc, draft-palombini-core-oscore-edhoc, draft-mattsson-cose-cbor-cert-compress, etc. >> >> I don't understand all the complexities of CDDL formalism, but this seems like a quite easy thing to solve. I do not care exactly which notation is used, but could we please just agree on something and put in a draft. >> >> The notation could be something like: >> >> - reuse the CDDL notation for group ( ... ) >> - reuse the Diagnostic Notation for CBOR sequences << ... >> >> - Some modification of the CDDL array notation ] ... [ >> - Something looking like symbol swearing #$%@#$% ... #$%@#$% >> ... >> >> Cheers, >> John >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CBOR mailing list >> CBOR@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor >> > From nobody Thu Nov 5 07:10:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C83A3A12AC for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 07:10:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) 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JCVAIyQlIC4uLiAjJCVAIyQlDQo+PiAuLi4NCj4+DQo+PiBDaGVlcnMsDQo+PiBKb2huDQo+Pg0K Pj4NCj4+DQo+Pg0KPj4NCj4+DQo+Pg0KPj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4+IENCT1IgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+PiBDQk9SQGlldGYub3Jn DQo+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2Nib3INCj4+DQo+IA0K DQo= From nobody Thu Nov 5 07:46:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C47623A135F for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 07:46:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wT5mD_DzKc7h for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 07:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52D7A3A1355 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 07:46:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.120] (p548dcc60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CRnv34n7VzySB; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 16:46:39 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 16:46:39 +0100 Cc: Henk Birkholz , "cbor@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 626283999.1670491-02399f849a6a2808cabe866a7bc49558 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <317AB3AB-B1E9-4AD9-911E-559D166E2788@ericsson.com> <3f63613d-9571-f739-d517-042b4ca9398d@sit.fraunhofer.de> To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 15:46:45 -0000 On 2020-11-05, at 16:10, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 > All the document I cited use unadorned CBOR Sequences (i.e. not = wrapped in a byte string). As far as I know there is no way to write = CDDL that matches the unadorned CBOR Sequence 0x0102 ( 1, 2 ). I think = this needs to be fixed. Citing RFC 8742 Section 4.1: Currently, CDDL does not provide for unadorned CBOR Sequences as a top-level subject of a specification. For now, the suggestion is to use an array for the top-level rule, as is used for the ".cborseq" control operator, and add English text that explains that the specification is really about a CBOR Sequence with the elements of the array: ; This defines an array, the elements of which are to be used ; in a CBOR Sequence: my-sequence =3D [* my-element] my-element =3D my-foo / my-bar (Future versions of CDDL may provide a notation for top-level CBOR Sequences, e.g., by using a group as the top-level rule in a CDDL specification.) Are you talking about the =E2=80=9Cfuture versions=E2=80=9D part of = that? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Nov 5 07:56:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F3833A1395 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 07:55:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.247, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FDz46uOY4eLK for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 07:55:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-edgeKA24.fraunhofer.de (mail-edgeka24.fraunhofer.de [153.96.1.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2555B3A138B for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 07:55:54 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2GcCQA1H6Rf/xwBYJliHQEBAQEJARI?= =?us-ascii?q?BBQUBQIFPgxqBNgqEM5ByLoEEmxwJCwEBAQEBAQEBAQcBARgLCgIEAQEChEg?= =?us-ascii?q?CghABJTgTAhABAQYBAQEBAQYEAgKGIQYnDINUgQcBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBFgJDVRIBAR0BAQEBAgEBASEPAQU2EAcECQIRAwECAQICJgICJyAICAY?= =?us-ascii?q?BDAYCAQEXgwsBglwfBQuUSJsPdoEyhVeDLoE8BoEOKoZjhlcPgU0/gREnD4I?= =?us-ascii?q?nNT6CXQEBAgGEc4JfBJNgpBYrB4FjgQ2BEAQLh2uGX4sUBQofgxiKEoUdBo8?= =?us-ascii?q?gk02KeJVMAgQCCQIVgWuBe00kT4JpUBcCDYZOh1oaFIhOhUVzAgE1AgYBCQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAwl8jDsBgRABAQ?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2GcCQA1H6Rf/xwBYJliHQEBAQEJARIBBQUBQIFPgxqBN?= =?us-ascii?q?gqEM5ByLoEEmxwJCwEBAQEBAQEBAQcBARgLCgIEAQEChEgCghABJTgTAhABA?= =?us-ascii?q?QYBAQEBAQYEAgKGIQYnDINUgQcBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBFgJDVRIBA?= =?us-ascii?q?R0BAQEBAgEBASEPAQU2EAcECQIRAwECAQICJgICJyAICAYBDAYCAQEXgwsBg?= =?us-ascii?q?lwfBQuUSJsPdoEyhVeDLoE8BoEOKoZjhlcPgU0/gREnD4InNT6CXQEBAgGEc?= =?us-ascii?q?4JfBJNgpBYrB4FjgQ2BEAQLh2uGX4sUBQofgxiKEoUdBo8gk02KeJVMAgQCC?= =?us-ascii?q?QIVgWuBe00kT4JpUBcCDYZOh1oaFIhOhUVzAgE1AgYBCQEBAwl8jDsBgRABA?= =?us-ascii?q?Q?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.77,453,1596492000"; d="scan'208";a="25379088" Received: from mail-mtaka28.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.1.28]) by mail-edgeKA24.fraunhofer.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 05 Nov 2020 16:55:52 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CMBwA1H6Rf/1lIDI1iHQEBAQEJARI?= =?us-ascii?q?BBQUBQIFPgipwWDAuCoQzkHIugQSbJQsBAwEBAQEBBwEBGAsKAgQBAYRKAoI?= =?us-ascii?q?OAiU4EwIQAQEFAQEBAgEGBHGFNAYnDIVyAQEBAwEBASEPAQU2EAcECQIRAwE?= =?us-ascii?q?CAQICJgICJyAICAYBDAYCAQEXgwsBglwkC5RImw92gTKFV4MugTwGgQ4qhmO?= =?us-ascii?q?GVw+BTT+BEScPgic1PoJdAQECAYRzgl8Ek2CkFisHgWOBDYEQBAuHa4ZfixQ?= =?us-ascii?q?FCh+DGIoShR0GjyCTTYp4lUwCBAIJAhWBayOBV00kT4JpUBcCDYZOh1oaFIh?= =?us-ascii?q?OhUVCMQIBNQIGAQkBAQMJfIw7AYEQAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.77,453,1596492000"; d="scan'208";a="39122874" Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de ([141.12.72.89]) by mail-mtaKA28.fraunhofer.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 05 Nov 2020 16:55:50 +0100 Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-10) with ESMTPS id 0A5Ftogf026951 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 5 Nov 2020 16:55:50 +0100 Received: from [192.168.16.50] (79.234.121.161) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 16:55:45 +0100 To: John Mattsson , "cbor@ietf.org" References: <317AB3AB-B1E9-4AD9-911E-559D166E2788@ericsson.com> <3f63613d-9571-f739-d517-042b4ca9398d@sit.fraunhofer.de> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 16:55:44 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [79.234.121.161] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 15:55:59 -0000 Hi John, picking the first of the documents you cited, I-D.ietf-6tisch-minimal-security states: > For encoding compactness, the Link_Layer_Key object is not enclosed > in a top-level CBOR object. Rather, it is transported as a sequence > of CBOR elements [I-D.ietf-cbor-sequence], some being optional. So the solution here is to concatenate four separate CBOR data items (key_id, key_usage, key_value, key_addinfo) in order to safe the bytes that would wrap them in an array and would result in a single CBOR data item. While I cannot assess, if the bytes saved here warrant the use of a cborseq, this seems like a solid spec to me and I wonder why this is not a solution therefore needs to be fixed. Circling back to my initial reply, I am still under the impression that you are asking for a CDDL notation that can express CBOR Sequences as a top-level item in a CDDL spec, right? (RFC8764 is hinting at that.) Viele Grüße, Henk On 05.11.20 16:10, John Mattsson wrote: > Hi Henk, > > The CDDL > > my-embedded-cbor-seq = bytes .cborseq my-array > > mathches a CBOR sequence wrapped in a byte string. I.e. "bytes .cborseq [ 1, 2 ]" would match the CBOR encoding 0x420102 > > All the document I cited use unadorned CBOR Sequences (i.e. not wrapped in a byte string). As far as I know there is no way to write CDDL that matches the unadorned CBOR Sequence 0x0102 ( 1, 2 ). I think this needs to be fixed. > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Henk Birkholz > Date: Thursday, 5 November 2020 at 16:02 > To: John Mattsson , "cbor@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences > > Hi John, > > I might be totally missing something obvious here - it's just that I am > having a hard time visualizing your problem at the moment. > > Maybe asking the obvious can help (me getting a grasp of the issue). Why > does the following recommendation from RFC8764 not help you? > >> my-embedded-cbor-seq = bytes .cborseq my-array >> my-array = [* my-element] >> my-element = my-foo / my-bar > > Viele Grüße, > > Henk > > > On 05.11.20 15:54, John Mattsson wrote: >> Hi Henk, >> >> To quote RFC 8764 >> >> 1) "CBOR Sequences are already supported as contents of byte strings using the ".cborseq" control operator" >> 2) "CDDL does not provide for unadorned CBOR Sequences as a top-level subject of a specification" >> >> All the document I cited do 2) not 1) .cborseq as currently specified is not a solution. >> >> Cheers, >> John >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Henk Birkholz >> Date: Thursday, 5 November 2020 at 15:29 >> To: John Mattsson , "cbor@ietf.org" >> Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences >> >> Hi John, >> >> as the control for cborseq is introduced in: >> >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8610#section-3.8.4 >> >> and RFC8742 states that: >> >>> Currently, CDDL does not provide for unadorned CBOR Sequences as a >>> top-level subject of a specification. For now, the suggestion is to >>> use an array for the top-level rule, as is used for the ".cborseq" >>> control operator, and add English text that explains that the >>> specification is really about a CBOR Sequence with the elements of >>> the array >> >> it seems to me that you are asking for a specific CDDL notation that can >> represent a cborseq as a top-level subject. Why is using an array here >> not good enough in your case? >> >> Viele Grüße, >> >> Henk >> >> On 05.11.20 13:49, John Mattsson wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I the most important missing piece in RFC 8610 is the lack of CDDL for CBOR Sequences (RFC 8742) and I think draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control would be a good place to add CDDL for that. >>> >>> CBOR sequences has already been standardized in RFC 8742. CBOR sequences are used quite heavily in IETF documents such as RFC 8769, draft-ietf-6tisch-minimal-security, draft-ietf-lake-edhoc, draft-palombini-core-oscore-edhoc, draft-mattsson-cose-cbor-cert-compress, etc. >>> >>> I don't understand all the complexities of CDDL formalism, but this seems like a quite easy thing to solve. I do not care exactly which notation is used, but could we please just agree on something and put in a draft. >>> >>> The notation could be something like: >>> >>> - reuse the CDDL notation for group ( ... ) >>> - reuse the Diagnostic Notation for CBOR sequences << ... >> >>> - Some modification of the CDDL array notation ] ... [ >>> - Something looking like symbol swearing #$%@#$% ... #$%@#$% >>> ... >>> >>> Cheers, >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CBOR mailing list >>> CBOR@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor >>> >> > From nobody Thu Nov 5 08:06:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46A33A1410 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 08:06:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.146 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.247, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oFIyO2vStlAH for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 08:05:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-edgeKA27.fraunhofer.de (mail-edgeka27.fraunhofer.de [153.96.1.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 588553A142C for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 08:05:56 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2GNBgCjIaRf/xoBYJliHAEBAQEBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?BARIBAQQEAQFAgU+EUAqEM5BxLpwpCwEBAQEBAQEBAQcBAS0CBAEBhEoCghA?= =?us-ascii?q?BJTgTAhABAQYBAQEBAQYEAgKGIQYzhlABBSMPAQVBEAkCDgoCAiYCAkcQBgE?= =?us-ascii?q?MAQUCAQGDIoJ8BZROnAWBMoVXgy6BQoEOKoZjhlcPgU0/gREnD4JcPoJdBIR?= =?us-ascii?q?0gl8Ek2CkFisHgWOBDYEQBAuZXgUKH5JHBo8gk02gRAIEAgkCFYFrgXtNJIM?= =?us-ascii?q?4UBcCDYZOh10XFI4TcwIBNQIGAQkBAQMJfIw7AYEQAQE?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2GNBgCjIaRf/xoBYJliHAEBAQEBAQcBARIBAQQEAQFAg?= =?us-ascii?q?U+EUAqEM5BxLpwpCwEBAQEBAQEBAQcBAS0CBAEBhEoCghABJTgTAhABAQYBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQYEAgKGIQYzhlABBSMPAQVBEAkCDgoCAiYCAkcQBgEMAQUCAQGDIoJ8B?= =?us-ascii?q?ZROnAWBMoVXgy6BQoEOKoZjhlcPgU0/gREnD4JcPoJdBIR0gl8Ek2CkFisHg?= =?us-ascii?q?WOBDYEQBAuZXgUKH5JHBo8gk02gRAIEAgkCFYFrgXtNJIM4UBcCDYZOh10XF?= =?us-ascii?q?I4TcwIBNQIGAQkBAQMJfIw7AYEQAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.77,453,1596492000"; d="scan'208";a="25490899" Received: from mail-mtaka26.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.1.26]) by mail-edgeKA27.fraunhofer.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 05 Nov 2020 17:05:52 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ApBQDvIaRf/1lIDI1iHAEBAQEBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?BARIBAQQEAQFAgU+CKoFIMC4KhDOQcS6cKQsBAwEBAQEBBwEBLQIEAQGESgK?= =?us-ascii?q?CDgIlOBMCEAEBBQEBAQIBBgRxhTQGM4VzAQUjDwEFQRAJAg4KAgImAgJHEAY?= =?us-ascii?q?BDAEFAgEBgyKDAZROnAWBMoVXgy6BQoEOKoZjhlcPgU0/gREnD4JcPoJdBIR?= =?us-ascii?q?0gl8Ek2CkFisHgWOBDYEQBAuZXgUKH5JHBo8gk02gRAIEAgkCFYFrI4FXTSS?= =?us-ascii?q?DOFAXAg2GToddFxSOE0IxAgE1AgYBCQEBAwl8jDsBgRABAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.77,453,1596492000"; d="scan'208";a="95126370" Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de ([141.12.72.89]) by mail-mtaKA26.fraunhofer.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 05 Nov 2020 17:05:50 +0100 Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-10) with ESMTPS id 0A5G5oWe027164 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 5 Nov 2020 17:05:50 +0100 Received: from [192.168.16.50] (79.234.121.161) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 17:05:45 +0100 To: Carsten Bormann , John Mattsson CC: "cbor@ietf.org" References: <317AB3AB-B1E9-4AD9-911E-559D166E2788@ericsson.com> <3f63613d-9571-f739-d517-042b4ca9398d@sit.fraunhofer.de> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: <49921e68-b22b-0dfb-71a4-a1ae4f578c88@sit.fraunhofer.de> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 17:05:44 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [79.234.121.161] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 16:06:02 -0000 Or what Carsten said :-) Sry for just sending before checking! On 05.11.20 16:46, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2020-11-05, at 16:10, John Mattsson wrote: >> >> All the document I cited use unadorned CBOR Sequences (i.e. not wrapped in a byte string). As far as I know there is no way to write CDDL that matches the unadorned CBOR Sequence 0x0102 ( 1, 2 ). I think this needs to be fixed. > > Citing RFC 8742 Section 4.1: > > Currently, CDDL does not provide for unadorned CBOR Sequences as a > top-level subject of a specification. For now, the suggestion is to > use an array for the top-level rule, as is used for the ".cborseq" > control operator, and add English text that explains that the > specification is really about a CBOR Sequence with the elements of > the array: > > ; This defines an array, the elements of which are to be used > ; in a CBOR Sequence: > my-sequence = [* my-element] > my-element = my-foo / my-bar > > (Future versions of CDDL may provide a notation for top-level CBOR > Sequences, e.g., by using a group as the top-level rule in a CDDL > specification.) > > Are you talking about the “future versions” part of that? > > Grüße, Carsten > From nobody Thu Nov 5 08:25:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606B83A17F2 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 08:25:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Level: 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16:25:12 +0000 From: John Mattsson To: Henk Birkholz , "cbor@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences Thread-Index: AQHWs3IlKka0ymeJ+0erUQMYOdAYWam5mQIAgAAX5gD///F2AIAAEyCA///72gCAABj/AA== Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 16:25:12 +0000 Message-ID: <5CB44449-A1EB-465A-8A51-14FE14155B68@ericsson.com> References: <317AB3AB-B1E9-4AD9-911E-559D166E2788@ericsson.com> <3f63613d-9571-f739-d517-042b4ca9398d@sit.fraunhofer.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.42.20101102 authentication-results: sit.fraunhofer.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;sit.fraunhofer.de; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [81.225.97.222] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8bb01987-1f90-47e8-6f00-08d881a75f2a x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM6PR07MB4932: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: 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AM6PR07MB4584.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8bb01987-1f90-47e8-6f00-08d881a75f2a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Nov 2020 16:25:12.7873 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rOVrrOw1sBXTsRzX5DhP7OjKFmkiTokLd0tAHRwnpNJWMTU4AFu0wVM7D2/xN1JMBQ2UsRvE1BDY5Uwke8T/cKSSU8kXwmC/zkV822iU9L4= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB4932 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 16:25:19 -0000 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IF0gLi4uIFsNCj4+PiAtIFNvbWV0aGluZyBsb29raW5nIGxpa2Ugc3ltYm9sIHN3ZWFyaW5nICMk JUAjJCUgLi4uICMkJUAjJCUNCj4+PiAuLi4NCj4+Pg0KPj4+IENoZWVycywNCj4+PiBKb2huDQo+ Pj4NCj4+Pg0KPj4+DQo+Pj4NCj4+Pg0KPj4+DQo+Pj4NCj4+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4+IENCT1IgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+Pj4g Q0JPUkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v Y2Jvcg0KPj4+DQo+Pg0KPiANCg0K From nobody Thu Nov 5 09:02:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3A53A181F for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 09:02:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CtGGNqMwaEjL for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 09:02:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2937E3A1815 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 09:02:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.120] (p548dcc60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CRqZp5jvfzyWV; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 18:02:42 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <5CB44449-A1EB-465A-8A51-14FE14155B68@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 18:02:42 +0100 Cc: Henk Birkholz , "cbor@ietf.org" , Andrew Weiss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 626288562.324324-04eb3f9cc35f9ad70cd6411fc7d90188 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4CBAFAE0-EB02-4E02-9CAD-D7E0AB546F06@tzi.org> References: <317AB3AB-B1E9-4AD9-911E-559D166E2788@ericsson.com> <3f63613d-9571-f739-d517-042b4ca9398d@sit.fraunhofer.de> <5CB44449-A1EB-465A-8A51-14FE14155B68@ericsson.com> To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 17:02:49 -0000 On 2020-11-05, at 17:25, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Henk wrote: >> Circling back to my initial reply, I am still under the impression = that=20 >> you are asking for a CDDL notation that can express CBOR Sequences as = a=20 >> top-level item in a CDDL spec, right? (RFC8764 is hinting at that.) >=20 > Carsten wrote: >> Are you talking about the =E2=80=9Cfuture versions=E2=80=9D part of = that? >=20 > Yes, I am asking for a future update to CDDL that allows expression of = CBOR Sequences as a top-level item. I want that "future version" of CDDL = as soon as possible. I see. (I don=E2=80=99t see why.) The reason that this is under =E2=80=9Cfuture=E2=80=9D is that there is = no urgency to re-spin CDDL at this point =E2=80=94 we can handle all = current issues within the extension points (at least until we do the = module structure =E2=80=94 but that will take another year or two). > The reason I want that updated version is because I want to use CDDL.=20= Yes, and RFC 8742 tells you how to do this for CBOR sequences with = today=E2=80=99s CDDL. > The > alternative is to not use CDDL, or as suggested by RFC 8742 and use = CDDL together with human readable text. The human readable text cannot = be used for automatic verification unless you have a very smart AI. You already need something (=E2=80=9CEnglish=E2=80=9D or in your = implementation glue) that links the specific CDDL spec to the incoming = data. That something could as well tell you that the incoming data is a CBOR = sequence and not a single CBOR data item, and use the CDDL accordingly. Can you explain the difficulties you find with that? >> So the solution here is to concatenate four separate CBOR data items=20= >> (key_id, key_usage, key_value, key_addinfo) in order to safe the = bytes=20 >> that would wrap them in an array and would result in a single CBOR = data=20 >> item. >=20 > Yes, all the specs I referred to do something similar. My = understanding is that the result is a CBOR sequence (not a single CBOR = data item). In EDHOC we have taken every possible measure to shave of = bytes so that the message can fit in 5-hop 6TiSCH and LoRaWAN. The = resulting CBOR sequence for message_2 is 46 bytes which is still one (1) = byte too much. In EDHOC we will need concatenate byte strings of known = length to make the CBOR sequence fit inside a single frame. There is = absolutely no possibility to take the cost of even a single extra byte. I=E2=80=99m not arguing for converting the CBOR sequence into a single = CBOR data item. I=E2=80=99m just arguing that you can use the way of using CDDL for CBOR = sequences that is specified today in RFC 8742. Henk has pointed out to me in separate conversation that my CDDL tool is = not yet sequence-friendly; I=E2=80=99ll take that as an action point = now. =20 Andrew =E2=80=94 where is your tool with respect to handling RFC 8742 = CBOR sequences? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Nov 5 09:18:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D93B3A1933 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 09:18:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=github.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P0ogzEOJdTE1 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 09:18:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32f.google.com (mail-ot1-x32f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51FCD3A1324 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 09:18:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id n11so2129790ota.2 for ; Thu, 05 Nov 2020 09:18:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BXw5h7MpsZFynM0xvF0yzYfZXful/mh4IlzZBwThLL8=; b=Q955X4z4WXtyK6JAbo7bLe8YxS7vjSw2FfqJ9vA1fKZurPKaC9LuQ9IjnuKNsZPVVo SYjgkYj2XSAekzRRFCkw1s+WAlNJYvVsQhMfcj29RMX6F/mRHQy3YAEHLldc0KE1U/FH zkS2Zm3PCrL4BcEm1RWJE0O9n6AioOuvl2JdaJn7RTLdFn7RKg1Oq7MaUWMvsGxM1UJT I3T/B62FlJFU9puEgD/FNW3oH4xM5tW5kZilVbqOXtL+UMjzUTF6QvfnROFLLd+SJ60s n5XzCVe9yoaYM1zmGXu7PaeDUeB6nZysWe6u1QtuxU276atO4SPHtGf11uELNyenNfht iedA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BXw5h7MpsZFynM0xvF0yzYfZXful/mh4IlzZBwThLL8=; b=fuTwJbmtdHv+1aOhI/0ulQH6fGM/LcfF0nv1OiBy/zyEUjDaToeTHxyfBKbLLAXTJs cTqoQnmkY6P5McFJrQxiogfoVb2wwBYG6sM4A/3x96JvbI9Xa7J6cWa2K5lB3Noji53Y gN3bSi0TWncMQ38OhW1goGy32NnEDYqi7zLtXwcVhkMoouTJQ9WUf0ZXxhyU7K11qtiy 2Zm+4vmjLJr3xrcpJOM5MbSejAZGe1+N+jrqm80nlMAjICQxF1Y/GLty8dVB+mfl432h qQxWiLdL2A4Bi/+55HkuPibFIz77U6B+7Z85ldzeaI3podE2bV/ZSJoNVuw/PmvwXzwJ 9Skw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Jifsx+7jzYaU/PlNaqJasMm24z7sjsMzlRVxs+LVqA7yqnRgj CAeHvsfAHHpFK72FmQpem9r3ZPRjkuJudr0Dx7z4Hg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwcxAGVvXtMop1bDNVg0LS6RRJP9obbUClms0TEz/lAkf99xIrX6Q6Egy5BCxWW+ZqZ/6/pA9uyuE9od3koMzo= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:bec:: with SMTP id 99mr2501048oth.103.1604596679500; Thu, 05 Nov 2020 09:17:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <317AB3AB-B1E9-4AD9-911E-559D166E2788@ericsson.com> <3f63613d-9571-f739-d517-042b4ca9398d@sit.fraunhofer.de> <5CB44449-A1EB-465A-8A51-14FE14155B68@ericsson.com> <4CBAFAE0-EB02-4E02-9CAD-D7E0AB546F06@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <4CBAFAE0-EB02-4E02-9CAD-D7E0AB546F06@tzi.org> From: Andrew Weiss Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 12:17:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: John Mattsson , Henk Birkholz , "cbor@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000170d3705b35f4767" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 17:18:02 -0000 --000000000000170d3705b35f4767 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Carsten, I haven't yet implemented RFC 8742 CBOR sequences (per https://github.com/anweiss/cddl#validating-cbor), but it is next on my list= . *Andrew* On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 12:02 PM Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2020-11-05, at 17:25, John Mattsson 40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Henk wrote: > >> Circling back to my initial reply, I am still under the impression tha= t > >> you are asking for a CDDL notation that can express CBOR Sequences as = a > >> top-level item in a CDDL spec, right? (RFC8764 is hinting at that.) > > > > Carsten wrote: > >> Are you talking about the =E2=80=9Cfuture versions=E2=80=9D part of th= at? > > > > Yes, I am asking for a future update to CDDL that allows expression of > CBOR Sequences as a top-level item. I want that "future version" of CDDL = as > soon as possible. > > I see. (I don=E2=80=99t see why.) > > The reason that this is under =E2=80=9Cfuture=E2=80=9D is that there is n= o urgency to > re-spin CDDL at this point =E2=80=94 we can handle all current issues wit= hin the > extension points (at least until we do the module structure =E2=80=94 but= that will > take another year or two). > > > The reason I want that updated version is because I want to use CDDL. > > Yes, and RFC 8742 tells you how to do this for CBOR sequences with today= =E2=80=99s > CDDL. > > > The > > alternative is to not use CDDL, or as suggested by RFC 8742 and use CDD= L > together with human readable text. The human readable text cannot be used > for automatic verification unless you have a very smart AI. > > You already need something (=E2=80=9CEnglish=E2=80=9D or in your implemen= tation glue) that > links the specific CDDL spec to the incoming data. > That something could as well tell you that the incoming data is a CBOR > sequence and not a single CBOR data item, and use the CDDL accordingly. > Can you explain the difficulties you find with that? > > >> So the solution here is to concatenate four separate CBOR data items > >> (key_id, key_usage, key_value, key_addinfo) in order to safe the bytes > >> that would wrap them in an array and would result in a single CBOR dat= a > >> item. > > > > Yes, all the specs I referred to do something similar. My understanding > is that the result is a CBOR sequence (not a single CBOR data item). In > EDHOC we have taken every possible measure to shave of bytes so that the > message can fit in 5-hop 6TiSCH and LoRaWAN. The resulting CBOR sequence > for message_2 is 46 bytes which is still one (1) byte too much. In EDHOC = we > will need concatenate byte strings of known length to make the CBOR > sequence fit inside a single frame. There is absolutely no possibility to > take the cost of even a single extra byte. > > I=E2=80=99m not arguing for converting the CBOR sequence into a single CB= OR data > item. > I=E2=80=99m just arguing that you can use the way of using CDDL for CBOR = sequences > that is specified today in RFC 8742. > > Henk has pointed out to me in separate conversation that my CDDL tool is > not yet sequence-friendly; I=E2=80=99ll take that as an action point now. > > Andrew =E2=80=94 where is your tool with respect to handling RFC 8742 CBO= R > sequences? > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > --000000000000170d3705b35f4767 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Carsten,

I haven't yet implemen= ted RFC 8742 CBOR sequences (per https://github.com/anweiss/cddl#validating-cbor), but= it is next on my list.

Andrew


On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 12:02 PM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On 2020-11-05, at 17:25, John Matt= sson <john.mattsson=3D40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Henk wrote:
>> Circling back to my initial reply, I am still under the impression= that
>> you are asking for a CDDL notation that can express CBOR Sequences= as a
>> top-level item in a CDDL spec, right? (RFC8764 is hinting at that.= )
>
> Carsten wrote:
>> Are you talking about the =E2=80=9Cfuture versions=E2=80=9D part o= f that?
>
> Yes, I am asking for a future update to CDDL that allows expression of= CBOR Sequences as a top-level item. I want that "future version"= of CDDL as soon as possible.

I see.=C2=A0 (I don=E2=80=99t see why.)

The reason that this is under =E2=80=9Cfuture=E2=80=9D is that there is no = urgency to re-spin CDDL at this point =E2=80=94 we can handle all current i= ssues within the extension points (at least until we do the module structur= e =E2=80=94 but that will take another year or two).

> The reason I want that updated version is because I want to use CDDL. =

Yes, and RFC 8742 tells you how to do this for CBOR sequences with today=E2= =80=99s CDDL.

> The
> alternative is to not use CDDL, or as suggested by RFC 8742 and use CD= DL together with human readable text. The human readable text cannot be use= d for automatic verification unless you have a very smart AI.

You already need something (=E2=80=9CEnglish=E2=80=9D or in your implementa= tion glue) that links the specific CDDL spec to the incoming data.
That something could as well tell you that the incoming data is a CBOR sequ= ence and not a single CBOR data item, and use the CDDL accordingly.
Can you explain the difficulties you find with that?

>> So the solution here is to concatenate four separate CBOR data ite= ms
>> (key_id, key_usage, key_value, key_addinfo) in order to safe the b= ytes
>> that would wrap them in an array and would result in a single CBOR= data
>> item.
>
> Yes, all the specs I referred to do something similar. My understandin= g is that the result is a CBOR sequence (not a single CBOR data item). In E= DHOC we have taken every possible measure to shave of bytes so that the mes= sage can fit in 5-hop 6TiSCH and LoRaWAN. The resulting CBOR sequence for m= essage_2 is 46 bytes which is still one (1) byte too much. In EDHOC we will= need concatenate byte strings of known length to make the CBOR sequence fi= t inside a single frame. There is absolutely no possibility to take the cos= t of even a single extra byte.

I=E2=80=99m not arguing for converting the CBOR sequence into a single CBOR= data item.
I=E2=80=99m just arguing that you can use the way of using CDDL for CBOR se= quences that is specified today in RFC 8742.

Henk has pointed out to me in separate conversation that my CDDL tool is no= t yet sequence-friendly; I=E2=80=99ll take that as an action point now.=C2= =A0

Andrew =E2=80=94 where is your tool with respect to handling RFC 8742 CBOR = sequences?

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <1643FD71E437DF42A6C68F03BE2C0113@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: VI1PR07MB4477.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 11741e86-c4d9-4407-2b36-08d885af61da X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Nov 2020 19:32:37.8764 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 0O3U6zz1N42VZVMJXeItXStwT3Y3oWBHkz7fwymnyGz5MMJXZpfSQhfdU04fFKsGf110DexocWPrViVhr+x6tRiob3F8kr+XOIEN3NK5y5ye8emQihiNiUrpqwJiuXWX X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0702MB3727 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] IETF 109 agenda X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 19:32:48 -0000 SGkgYWxsLA0KDQpUaGUgYWdlbmRhIGhhcyBiZWVuIHVwbG9hZGVkOiBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFj a2VyLmlldGYub3JnL21lZXRpbmcvMTA5L21hdGVyaWFscy9hZ2VuZGEtMTA5LWNib3ItMDAuaHRt bCAuIElmIHlvdSBoYXZlIGFueSBjb21tZW50cyBvciBtb2RpZmljYXRpb25zIHlvdSdkIGxpa2Ug bWUgdG8gZG8sIHBsZWFzZSBsZXQgbWUga25vdy4NCg0KSSBhbSBsb29raW5nIGZvciBtaW51dGUg dGFrZXJzLCBpZiB5b3UgYXJlIHBsYW5uaW5nIHRvIGF0dGVuZCBwbGVhc2UgY29uc2lkZXIgdm9s dW50ZWVyaW5nLg0KDQpUYWxrIHRvIHlvdSBhbGwgc29vbiwNCkZyYW5jZXNjYQ0KDQrvu79PbiAy My8xMC8yMDIwLCAyMzoxNiwgIiJJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0IiIgPGFnZW5kYUBpZXRmLm9yZz4g d3JvdGU6DQoNCiAgICBEZWFyIEZyYW5jZXNjYSBQYWxvbWJpbmksDQoNCiAgICBUaGUgc2Vzc2lv bihzKSB0aGF0IHlvdSBoYXZlIHJlcXVlc3RlZCBoYXZlIGJlZW4gc2NoZWR1bGVkLg0KICAgIEJl bG93IGlzIHRoZSBzY2hlZHVsZWQgc2Vzc2lvbiBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBmb2xsb3dlZCBieQ0KICAg IHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCByZXF1ZXN0LiANCg0KDQogICAgICAgIGNib3IgU2Vzc2lvbiAxICgxOjAw IHJlcXVlc3RlZCkNCiAgICAgICAgVGh1cnNkYXksIDE5IE5vdmVtYmVyIDIwMjAsIFNlc3Npb24g SUkgMTQzMC0xNTMwDQogICAgICAgIFJvb20gTmFtZTogUm9vbSAxIHNpemU6IDUwMQ0KICAgICAg ICAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCg0KDQogICAg aUNhbGVuZGFyOiBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL21lZXRpbmcvMTA5L3Nlc3Np b25zL2Nib3IuaWNzDQoNCiAgICBSZXF1ZXN0IEluZm9ybWF0aW9uOg0KDQoNCiAgICAtLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCiAgICBX b3JraW5nIEdyb3VwIE5hbWU6IENvbmNpc2UgQmluYXJ5IE9iamVjdCBSZXByZXNlbnRhdGlvbiBN YWludGVuYW5jZSBhbmQgRXh0ZW5zaW9ucw0KICAgIEFyZWEgTmFtZTogQXBwbGljYXRpb25zIGFu ZCBSZWFsLVRpbWUgQXJlYQ0KICAgIFNlc3Npb24gUmVxdWVzdGVyOiBGcmFuY2VzY2EgUGFsb21i aW5pDQoNCg0KICAgIE51bWJlciBvZiBTZXNzaW9uczogMQ0KICAgIExlbmd0aCBvZiBTZXNzaW9u KHMpOiAgMSBIb3VyDQogICAgTnVtYmVyIG9mIEF0dGVuZGVlczogNTANCiAgICBDb25mbGljdHMg dG8gQXZvaWQ6IA0KICAgICBDaGFpciBDb25mbGljdDogc2FhZyBhY2UgY29yZSBsYW1wcyBjb3Nl IGxha2UgZ2VuZGlzcGF0Y2ggc2VjZGlzcGF0Y2gNCiAgICAgVGVjaG5vbG9neSBPdmVybGFwOiBy YXRzIHN1aXQgdGVlcCBsd2lnIDZ0aXNjaCA2bG8gYW5pbWEgdDJ0cmcgbHB3YW4gYXNkZg0KICAg ICBLZXkgUGFydGljaXBhbnQgQ29uZmxpY3Q6IGNmcmcgZW11IHRscyBvYXV0aCBhcnRhcmVhIHJv bGwgc2FjbSBkb3RzIGRuc29wIHdwYWNrIGpzb25wYXRoDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KICAgIFBlb3BsZSB3 aG8gbXVzdCBiZSBwcmVzZW50Og0KICAgICAgQ2Fyc3RlbiBCb3JtYW5uDQogICAgICBCYXJyeSBM ZWliYQ0KICAgICAgSmltIFNjaGFhZA0KICAgICAgRnJhbmNlc2NhIFBhbG9tYmluaQ0KDQogICAg UmVzb3VyY2VzIFJlcXVlc3RlZDoNCg0KICAgIFNwZWNpYWwgUmVxdWVzdHM6DQogICAgICBQbGVh c2UgYXZvaWQgY29sbGlzaW9uIHdpdGggYW55IFNlYyBhbmQgSW9ULXJlbGF0ZWQgQm9Gcy4NCiAg ICAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0NCg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Nov 13 16:25:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A666E3A1043 for ; 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Sat, 14 Nov 2020 01:25:33 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 627006332.530992-2dbb56f177e82980f5b9786510d57748 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 01:25:32 +0100 Message-Id: <1F68A747-B785-4A0C-A040-D22B56FEEF0F@tzi.org> To: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Allow reducing .feature diagnostic verbosity X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 00:25:46 -0000 Over in ASDF, with SDF 1.1 development picking up speed, we are noticing = some undue verbosity of .feature controls in type choices (as opposed to = keys of optional entries in maps, where they are usually fine). I made a pull request: https://github.com/cbor-wg/cddl-control/pull/1/files This is also implemented in cddl tool 0.8.13 (just pushed; update with = =E2=80=9Cgem update=E2=80=9D). Discussion welcome. Example for use in: https://github.com/ietf-wg-asdf/SDF/blob/1-1/sdf-1-1.cddl#L63 (I needed to put in extra parentheses because the cddl tool doesn=E2=80=99= t exactly implement the CDDL ABNF=E2=80=A6 On the list for the next = version of the tool; cddlc already has the correct ABNF.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Nov 17 07:43:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B9C53A1441 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:43:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=github.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dvgMBkNMy7AR for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:43:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x332.google.com (mail-ot1-x332.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::332]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 244F03A12B2 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:43:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x332.google.com with SMTP id o3so9283603ota.8 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:43:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+b0lG8ZJ+mkzOV6zrbBI2Gy7uHnnVDlnEALWz4SuNes=; b=FdBRdyWTKTmUKXxtfvirrNla0XJP6zi8hdIC0FvrRhSosXDhva9lmuEoqGcaG3p/cN 0YG7bxeV6aPZ+QOV48lCx6f5Wi3rZOGa/JBR5iRzbg8Tj3o4GGoHd4CMYgV7HTKT5U3q WMVgCRQaIJ8rkLl5qBWkLRebzfS0C8NOTEERun69kmiV9+yAHqDwbzlRu3RHeFwXOE1M Zoi94r7/+YRd1xeJazbPxBUNo7IL8iVvhk0uLJ1zYTq97PvpTSkHQHYpGnTLCeHRNT5v 8KBUaLL7JT7TIwMhTROlUsbhqLat5D1q5onYOc1jWMCH+O6AlYb6PaQIhAsDeQKKc4Su ObpA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+b0lG8ZJ+mkzOV6zrbBI2Gy7uHnnVDlnEALWz4SuNes=; b=hNQnk/RlKfqIbpYOOK1A6hkMmQJrSLyGCZ1CFRsb9lIEpnSDXaar8BdHBRJ8cMV/y+ B9uhsxI7LrVTKlAIf0iLJqfOcOESb0Vil2Eyw2pn96HOnPWRYU96neAzwLkLLf5IIzO7 OFclK4WmAP3IzgX9Jm6r3Xk/GmH5hLgS4c8EtAq6GV/vISHUAKKiHg0XpHft+ZX/mY17 hyUFJ4UOpx2u5O7RIzoQTHaOg1j9b7w9W1WqsBR5Y7HYLFEhLlYq8iHr4TiQVU9N+ENo m/wCWWkAJq2tljhT+rrSNKjK4hb6HyrUai9RF2GLftZrp/qzTT7OKjEtrtwR4jGvMEqE Ik2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531f2KKgzoTaBV7Ncb835QZge0V8dYf5q1NLzkGuSY4AnE2/QFHX /J4iZo/0sgzrmJELjPzoIHUUGCIDlOWbBQvDiGb3/O1HazA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyvi9bBDKqQj3FubeI91lKX6yUSl+DgFTch4Q0m5wrGADuqGR/15b/StdickqquqLdjoWh8KmpMsjyBB2tfsNw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:2415:: with SMTP id j21mr3262166ots.221.1605627823320; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:43:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <317AB3AB-B1E9-4AD9-911E-559D166E2788@ericsson.com> <3f63613d-9571-f739-d517-042b4ca9398d@sit.fraunhofer.de> <5CB44449-A1EB-465A-8A51-14FE14155B68@ericsson.com> <4CBAFAE0-EB02-4E02-9CAD-D7E0AB546F06@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: From: Andrew Weiss Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 10:43:32 -0500 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: John Mattsson , Henk Birkholz , "cbor@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000d233105b44f5c63" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-00 should add CDDL notation for CBOR Sequences X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 15:43:47 -0000 --0000000000000d233105b44f5c63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Carsten, As a follow up to my previous message, I recently released v0.8.4 of my CDDL tool which supports CBOR sequences. Feel free to give it a whirl and report back any issues ... https://github.com/anweiss/cddl/releases/tag/0.8.4 Cheers! *Andrew* On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 12:17 PM Andrew Weiss wrote: > Hey Carsten, > > I haven't yet implemented RFC 8742 CBOR sequences (per > https://github.com/anweiss/cddl#validating-cbor), but it is next on my > list. > > *Andrew* > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 12:02 PM Carsten Bormann wrote: > >> On 2020-11-05, at 17:25, John Mattsson > 40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > Henk wrote: >> >> Circling back to my initial reply, I am still under the impression >> that >> >> you are asking for a CDDL notation that can express CBOR Sequences as >> a >> >> top-level item in a CDDL spec, right? (RFC8764 is hinting at that.) >> > >> > Carsten wrote: >> >> Are you talking about the =E2=80=9Cfuture versions=E2=80=9D part of t= hat? >> > >> > Yes, I am asking for a future update to CDDL that allows expression of >> CBOR Sequences as a top-level item. I want that "future version" of CDDL= as >> soon as possible. >> >> I see. (I don=E2=80=99t see why.) >> >> The reason that this is under =E2=80=9Cfuture=E2=80=9D is that there is = no urgency to >> re-spin CDDL at this point =E2=80=94 we can handle all current issues wi= thin the >> extension points (at least until we do the module structure =E2=80=94 bu= t that will >> take another year or two). >> >> > The reason I want that updated version is because I want to use CDDL. >> >> Yes, and RFC 8742 tells you how to do this for CBOR sequences with >> today=E2=80=99s CDDL. >> >> > The >> > alternative is to not use CDDL, or as suggested by RFC 8742 and use >> CDDL together with human readable text. The human readable text cannot b= e >> used for automatic verification unless you have a very smart AI. >> >> You already need something (=E2=80=9CEnglish=E2=80=9D or in your impleme= ntation glue) >> that links the specific CDDL spec to the incoming data. >> That something could as well tell you that the incoming data is a CBOR >> sequence and not a single CBOR data item, and use the CDDL accordingly. >> Can you explain the difficulties you find with that? >> >> >> So the solution here is to concatenate four separate CBOR data items >> >> (key_id, key_usage, key_value, key_addinfo) in order to safe the byte= s >> >> that would wrap them in an array and would result in a single CBOR >> data >> >> item. >> > >> > Yes, all the specs I referred to do something similar. My understandin= g >> is that the result is a CBOR sequence (not a single CBOR data item). In >> EDHOC we have taken every possible measure to shave of bytes so that the >> message can fit in 5-hop 6TiSCH and LoRaWAN. The resulting CBOR sequence >> for message_2 is 46 bytes which is still one (1) byte too much. In EDHOC= we >> will need concatenate byte strings of known length to make the CBOR >> sequence fit inside a single frame. There is absolutely no possibility t= o >> take the cost of even a single extra byte. >> >> I=E2=80=99m not arguing for converting the CBOR sequence into a single C= BOR data >> item. >> I=E2=80=99m just arguing that you can use the way of using CDDL for CBOR >> sequences that is specified today in RFC 8742. >> >> Henk has pointed out to me in separate conversation that my CDDL tool is >> not yet sequence-friendly; I=E2=80=99ll take that as an action point now= . >> >> Andrew =E2=80=94 where is your tool with respect to handling RFC 8742 CB= OR >> sequences? >> >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >> >> --0000000000000d233105b44f5c63 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Carsten,

As a follow up to my previ= ous message, I recently released v0.8.4 of my CDDL tool which supports CBOR= sequences. Feel free to give it a whirl and report back any issues ...=C2= =A0https://github.com/anweiss/cddl/releases/tag/0.8.4
<= br>
Cheers!

Andrew
On Thu, N= ov 5, 2020 at 12:17 PM Andrew Weiss <anweiss@github.com> wrote:
Hey Carsten,
I haven't yet implemented RFC 8742 CBOR sequences (per = https://github.com/anweiss/cddl#validating-cbor), but it is next on my = list.

Andrew
<= /div>

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 12:02 PM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
<= /div>
On 2020-11-05, at 17= :25, John Mattsson <john.mattsson=3D40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:=
>
> Hi,
>
> Henk wrote:
>> Circling back to my initial reply, I am still under the impression= that
>> you are asking for a CDDL notation that can express CBOR Sequences= as a
>> top-level item in a CDDL spec, right? (RFC8764 is hinting at that.= )
>
> Carsten wrote:
>> Are you talking about the =E2=80=9Cfuture versions=E2=80=9D part o= f that?
>
> Yes, I am asking for a future update to CDDL that allows expression of= CBOR Sequences as a top-level item. I want that "future version"= of CDDL as soon as possible.

I see.=C2=A0 (I don=E2=80=99t see why.)

The reason that this is under =E2=80=9Cfuture=E2=80=9D is that there is no = urgency to re-spin CDDL at this point =E2=80=94 we can handle all current i= ssues within the extension points (at least until we do the module structur= e =E2=80=94 but that will take another year or two).

> The reason I want that updated version is because I want to use CDDL. =

Yes, and RFC 8742 tells you how to do this for CBOR sequences with today=E2= =80=99s CDDL.

> The
> alternative is to not use CDDL, or as suggested by RFC 8742 and use CD= DL together with human readable text. The human readable text cannot be use= d for automatic verification unless you have a very smart AI.

You already need something (=E2=80=9CEnglish=E2=80=9D or in your implementa= tion glue) that links the specific CDDL spec to the incoming data.
That something could as well tell you that the incoming data is a CBOR sequ= ence and not a single CBOR data item, and use the CDDL accordingly.
Can you explain the difficulties you find with that?

>> So the solution here is to concatenate four separate CBOR data ite= ms
>> (key_id, key_usage, key_value, key_addinfo) in order to safe the b= ytes
>> that would wrap them in an array and would result in a single CBOR= data
>> item.
>
> Yes, all the specs I referred to do something similar. My understandin= g is that the result is a CBOR sequence (not a single CBOR data item). In E= DHOC we have taken every possible measure to shave of bytes so that the mes= sage can fit in 5-hop 6TiSCH and LoRaWAN. The resulting CBOR sequence for m= essage_2 is 46 bytes which is still one (1) byte too much. In EDHOC we will= need concatenate byte strings of known length to make the CBOR sequence fi= t inside a single frame. There is absolutely no possibility to take the cos= t of even a single extra byte.

I=E2=80=99m not arguing for converting the CBOR sequence into a single CBOR= data item.
I=E2=80=99m just arguing that you can use the way of using CDDL for CBOR se= quences that is specified today in RFC 8742.

Henk has pointed out to me in separate conversation that my CDDL tool is no= t yet sequence-friendly; I=E2=80=99ll take that as an action point now.=C2= =A0

Andrew =E2=80=94 where is your tool with respect to handling RFC 8742 CBOR = sequences?

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

--0000000000000d233105b44f5c63-- From nobody Tue Nov 17 12:07:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietf.org Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA13F3A02BD; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:07:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: cbor@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cbor@ietf.org Message-ID: <160564365981.11210.9226568497103498501@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:07:39 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-01.txt X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 20:07:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Concise Binary Object Representation Maintenance and Extensions WG of the IETF. Title : Additional Control Operators for CDDL Author : Carsten Bormann Filename : draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-01.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2020-11-17 Abstract: The Concise Data Definition Language (CDDL), standardized in RFC 8610, provides "control operators" as its main language extension point. The present document defines a number of control operators that did not make it into RFC 8610: ".cat"/".plus" for the construction of constants, ".abnf"/".abnfb" for including ABNF (RFC 5234/RFC 7405) in CDDL specifications, and ".feature" for indicating the use of a non- basic feature in an instance. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-01.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Nov 17 12:10:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98E23A03F1 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:10:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mB-HKBHfLRr7 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:10:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 799513A03EE for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:10:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.120] (p548dcb31.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.203.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CbHBH3PBVzyQn; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 21:10:47 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <1F68A747-B785-4A0C-A040-D22B56FEEF0F@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 21:10:47 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 627336646.8877-f613a67df2ec02e14fae382fd8f5f79e Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1F68A747-B785-4A0C-A040-D22B56FEEF0F@tzi.org> To: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Allow reducing .feature diagnostic verbosity X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 20:10:52 -0000 On 2020-11-14, at 01:25, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Over in ASDF, with SDF 1.1 development picking up speed, we are = noticing some undue verbosity of .feature controls in type choices (as = opposed to keys of optional entries in maps, where they are usually = fine). >=20 > I made a pull request: >=20 > https://github.com/cbor-wg/cddl-control/pull/1/files >=20 > This is also implemented in cddl tool 0.8.13 (just pushed; update with = =E2=80=9Cgem update=E2=80=9D). >=20 > Discussion welcome. > Example for use in: >=20 > https://github.com/ietf-wg-asdf/SDF/blob/1-1/sdf-1-1.cddl#L63 This is now in active use in draft-ietf-asdf-sdf-01 [1]. In preparation for Thursday=E2=80=99s WG meeting, I have submitted = draft-ietf-cbor-cddl-control-01 with this change. Comments, as always, = welcome! As a little bonus, the cddl tool (version 0.8.14) now does .cat, .plus = as well. (ABNF is next week, then :-) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten [1]: = https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-asdf-sdf-01.html#name-formal-syntax-o= f-sdf From nobody Tue Nov 17 12:32:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietf.org Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFDF73A0844; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:32:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: cbor@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cbor@ietf.org Message-ID: <160564516394.23772.979331601036599508@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:32:43 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cbor-tags-oid-03.txt X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 20:32:44 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Concise Binary Object Representation Maintenance and Extensions WG of the IETF. Title : Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) Tags for Object Identifiers Authors : Carsten Bormann Sean Leonard Filename : draft-ietf-cbor-tags-oid-03.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2020-11-17 Abstract: The Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR, draft-ietf-cbor- 7049bis) is a data format whose design goals include the possibility of extremely small code size, fairly small message size, and extensibility without the need for version negotiation. The present document defines CBOR tags for object identifiers (OIDs). It is intended as the reference document for the IANA registration of the CBOR tags so defined. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cbor-tags-oid/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-cbor-tags-oid-03.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cbor-tags-oid-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Nov 17 12:39:11 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD9C43A0954 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:39:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YIe6dAytd7lt for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:39:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 742003A091C for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:39:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.120] (p548dcb31.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.203.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CbHpy3WwMzyQn; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 21:39:06 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <160564516394.23772.979331601036599508@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 21:39:06 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 627338345.781951-7a8404753543c0f96519e461d0c3cc68 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <160564516394.23772.979331601036599508@ietfa.amsl.com> To: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cbor-tags-oid-03.txt X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 20:39:11 -0000 To make some progress on tags-oid, I addressed issues 6 and 7. Please comment on text and technical content. Issue 5 could be closed (amazingly, there is nothing to fix, and this = will be removed before publication anyway). I didn=E2=80=99t tackle issue 3 yet: I haven=E2=80=99t seen any feedback = on it: https://github.com/cbor-wg/cbor-oid/issues/3 The control suggested in the issue seems to a no-brainer, but we need to = check the name and see whether we need any other CDDL control operators = (which we *could* also define later, of course). Maybe we want a cross = of .cat and .minus (which doesn=E2=80=99t exist yet, either) instead? Enjoy! Best before Thursday=E2=80=99s CBOR meeting... Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On 2020-11-17, at 21:32, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the Concise Binary Object Representation = Maintenance and Extensions WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) = Tags for Object Identifiers > Authors : Carsten Bormann > Sean Leonard > Filename : draft-ietf-cbor-tags-oid-03.txt > Pages : 14 > Date : 2020-11-17 >=20 > Abstract: > The Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR, draft-ietf-cbor- > 7049bis) is a data format whose design goals include the possibility > of extremely small code size, fairly small message size, and > extensibility without the need for version negotiation. >=20 > The present document defines CBOR tags for object identifiers = (OIDs). > It is intended as the reference document for the IANA registration = of > the CBOR tags so defined. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cbor-tags-oid/ >=20 > There is also an HTML version available at: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-cbor-tags-oid-03.html >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cbor-tags-oid-03 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CBOR mailing list > CBOR@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor From nobody Fri Nov 20 15:47:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C049E3A0CA0; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:47:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EogI2OzxleKW; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2CB7B3A0C9C; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 5E0DAF4077C; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:47:23 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, drafts-update-ref@iana.org, cbor@ietf.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20201120234723.5E0DAF4077C@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:47:23 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] =?utf-8?q?RFC_8943_on_Concise_Binary_Object_Representatio?= =?utf-8?q?n_=28CBOR=29_Tags_for_Date?= X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 23:47:40 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8943 Title: Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) Tags for Date Author: M. Jones, A. Nadalin, J. Richter Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: November 2020 Mailbox: mbj@microsoft.com, nadalin@prodigy.net, joerg.richter@pdv-fs.de Pages: 6 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-cbor-date-tag-07.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8943 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8943 The Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR), as specified in RFC 7049, is a data format whose design goals include the possibility of extremely small code size, fairly small message size, and extensibility without the need for version negotiation. In CBOR, one point of extensibility is the definition of CBOR tags. RFC 7049 defines two tags for time: CBOR tag 0 (date/time string as per RFC 3339) and tag 1 (POSIX "seconds since the epoch"). Since then, additional requirements have become known. This specification defines a CBOR tag for a date text string (as per RFC 3339) for applications needing a textual date representation within the Gregorian calendar without a time. It also defines a CBOR tag for days since the date 1970-01-01 in the Gregorian calendar for applications needing a numeric date representation without a time. This specification is the reference document for IANA registration of the CBOR tags defined. This document is a product of the Concise Binary Object Representation Maintenance and Extensions Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. 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boundary="_000_CH2PR00MB0679FB5E242369CC908D024CF5FE9CH2PR00MB0679namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CH2PR00MB0679.namprd00.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c74b9bd4-50c5-4131-3bec-08d88db4af76 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Nov 2020 00:30:44.9529 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: pt5f0bGEFSpa0VaQgAhuJeU5tT6hQBNwkStDQZOPz2oUdiXHomrJiczvmriVDrII8MpIJGpK9NDtARsVzVRLBQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR00MB0854 Archived-At: Subject: [Cbor] Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) Tags for Date is now RFC 8943 X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 00:30:49 -0000 --_000_CH2PR00MB0679FB5E242369CC908D024CF5FE9CH2PR00MB0679namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) Tags for Date specification= has now been published as RFC 8943= . In particular, the full-date tag requested for use by the ISO Mobile Dri= ver's License specification in the ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 17 "Cards and security devices for personal identificati= on" working group has been created by this RFC. The abstract of the RFC is= : The Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR), as specified in RFC 7049, = is a data format whose design goals include the possibility of extremely sm= all code size, fairly small message size, and extensibility without the nee= d for version negotiation. In CBOR, one point of extensibility is the definition of CBOR tags. RFC 70= 49 defines two tags for time: CBOR tag 0 (date/time string as per RFC 3339)= and tag 1 (POSIX "seconds since the epoch"). Since then, additional requi= rements have become known. This specification defines a CBOR tag for a dat= e text string (as per RFC 3339) for applications needing a textual date rep= resentation within the Gregorian calendar without a time. It also defines = a CBOR tag for days since the date 1970-01-01 in the Gregorian calendar for= applications needing a numeric date representation without a time. This s= pecification is the reference document for IANA registration of the CBOR ta= gs defined. Note that a gifted musical singer/songwriter appears in this RFC in a conte= xtually appropriate fashion, should you need an additional incentive to rea= d the specification. ;-) -- Mike P.S. This note was also published at https://self-issued.info/?p=3D2136 an= d as @selfissued. --_000_CH2PR00MB0679FB5E242369CC908D024CF5FE9CH2PR00MB0679namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) Tags= for Date specification has now been published as RFC 8943.  In p= articular, the full-date tag re= quested for use by the ISO Mobile Driver’s License specification in t= he ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 17 “Cards and security devices for personal identification” work= ing group has been created by this RFC.  The abstract of the RFC is:

 

The Concise Binary Obj= ect Representation (CBOR), as specified in RFC 7049, is a data format whose= design goals include the possibility of extremely small code size, fairly = small message size, and extensibility without the need for version negotiation.

 <= /p>

In CBOR, one point of = extensibility is the definition of CBOR tags.  RFC 7049 defines two ta= gs for time: CBOR tag 0 (date/time string as per RFC 3339) and tag 1 (POSIX= "seconds since the epoch").  Since then, additional requirements have become known.  This specification define= s a CBOR tag for a date text string (as per RFC 3339) for applications need= ing a textual date representation within the Gregorian calendar without a t= ime.  It also defines a CBOR tag for days since the date 1970-01-01 in the Gregorian calendar for applications = needing a numeric date representation without a time.  This specificat= ion is the reference document for IANA registration of the CBOR tags define= d.

 

Note that a gifted musical singer/songwriter appears= in this RFC in a contextually appropriate fashion, should you need an addi= tional incentive to read the specification. ;-)

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        -- Mike

 

P.S.  This note was also published at https://self-issued.info/?p=3D2136 and as @selfissued.

 

--_000_CH2PR00MB0679FB5E242369CC908D024CF5FE9CH2PR00MB0679namp_-- From nobody Fri Nov 20 23:12:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1C503A0A3E for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 23:12:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dp9O7k3lD4C6 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 23:12:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57B603A0A3B for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 23:12:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcb31.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.203.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CdPjs5g7fzySD; Sat, 21 Nov 2020 08:12:01 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 08:12:01 +0100 Cc: "cbor@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 627635521.3826309-efc12673f2c7cb99b49064c0da6bd88b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <367E5B95-35DF-4D06-AE0C-A499607B602E@tzi.org> References: To: Mike Jones X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cbor] Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) Tags for Date is now RFC 8943 X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 07:12:07 -0000 Congratulations to the authors and to the whole WG for getting this one = right! Maybe this is a good time to revisit Joerg=E2=80=99s other tag = proposals: https://j-richter.github.io/CBOR/date.html https://j-richter.github.io/CBOR/currency.html As well as the extended time tag (1001) and friends: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bormann-cbor-time-tag/ Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Nov 30 02:38:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E43983A04BC for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 02:38:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aGtO_UVwFgzU for ; 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