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From: "Sigurd Arroyo" <morbific@pchelpadc.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Office 2OO7 & Acrobat 8 Pro 79$ today Feb 01 10:20:00 MSK 2007 at Jinchao's PCsoft
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 13:06:57 +0500
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All programms on speclal from Jinchao's hotsoft for 2007.

Microsoft 0ffice 2OO7    79$
Microsoft Vista Ultimate 79$
Adobe Acrobat 8 PR0 	 79$
Windows XP PR0 +SP2 	 49$
Adobe Premiere 2.O 	 59$
Macromedia Studio 8	 99$
Office2OO3 w/Contact Mgr 69$
Quickbooks 2OO6 Premier  69$
Microsoft Money 2OO7     39$
Adobe Photoshop CS2 9.O  69$
Autodesk Autocad 2OO7 	 129$
Corel Grafix Suite X3 	 59$
Adobe Creative Suite CS2 149$
Adobe Illustrator CS2	 59$
Microsoft Office XP PR0  49$
Macromedia Dreamweaver 8 49$
McAfee Internet Sec. 7   29$
Norton Antivirus Corp.   29$

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Mac Speclals:
Adobe Acrobat PR0 7	 	69$
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Adobe Creative Suite 2 Premium 149$
Ableton Live 5.0.1		49$
Adobe Photoshop CS		49$

http://ekioemi.net/-software-for-mac-.php

a small batch at time, and fry 3 to 4 minutes or until golden and crisp. 
hamburger patty
JORDBAER GROD: Strawberry Pudding
h piece to paper towels so that excess liquid can drain off.
to coat thoroughly. Gently place in fryer basket and deep-fry at
dash salt
1. Preheat oven to 475F
1/4 Cup Sour cream
2 eggs, separated and beaten
1. Bring to a boil for 2 minutes stirring.  2. Remove from heat. Allow cooling to lukewarm. 3. Put mixture in a blender till it is pureed. Pour in bottle. 4. Cap tightly and refrigerate to use within 90 days. 
1 teaspoon salt
1/2  Teaspoon      pepper
water comes to a boil add the macaroni and cook for 12 to 15
Let cool and harden.  Break into pieces.
Dough will be crumbly. Mix with hands until dough sticks together. Shape into good sized balls. Pat and handle until smooth. Roll into one inch thick rounds. Let stand in refrigerator 3 or 4 days. Cube and bake at 300 degrees until browned and baked through. (Cubes will be hard and crunchy when cooled.) Will make a great quantity.
3.  Gently combine cooked ziti with cheese/sauce mixture.
Wendy's Chili
5. Top with 3 Oz. mozzarella cheese
======================================================
2 lbs. frozen hashbrowns
======================================================
======================================================
Keep at room temperature. Use within 3 months
2 1/2 cups Shredded cheddar cheese
2 pounds ground beef
1 tablespoon Tabasco (optional) 
3. Put wings in a large bowl that has a cover. Pour
1  Preheat the oven to 325~F
mayonnaise, green onions and garlic in a bowl, blending well. Spread the 
1/4 C. Powered Creamer
1/2 C. Sugar 
1/4 teaspoon salt
of thin jam consistency. Beat sugar, butter, egg, milk & vanilla until 
or 1 1/3 bags of popcorn on one large or two small cookie sheets. 
1 Cup sugar
1 T salt
======================================================
1. Brown the ground beef in a large saucepan or pot over medium heat. 
Dry Spice Rub (recipe follows) 
INSTRUCTIONS
1/2 cup butter
or you can dip the cookies into the chocolate.
KFC Crispy Strips
1 TB Sugar  
1/4 cup cornmeal
3 T. Flour or cornstarch
2 tablespoons flour
about 10 minutes, stirring occasionally.
3 tablespoons rich cream
the remaining six dry ingredients. Dip each piece of chicken
1 teaspoon dried thyme
1/2 teas. Salt
Cheez Whiz, and milk in a small saucepan over medium/low heat. 
Don't crowd pieces during frying. Place in prepared pan in single
on the rack.
1 TB Parsley  
and bring to boil. Add cooked chicken, stirring until well mixed. 
1 teas. baking powder
2 Tbl. sugar
1/4 cup sour cream just before serving. (1/4 cup fresh or canned 
This could take several hours, but the bars will set best this way.
1 tablespoon minced parsley
2 tsp. Cornstarch
In a bowl, mix all dry ingredients for batter. Add 2T oil & ice water. 
Let cool and harden.  Break into pieces.
2 c Granulated sugar
tip. Insert the pastry tip 1/4-inch into the bottom of each cupcake
2 Tbl. Cooking Oil
3 Cups Water
for later. Knead the dough well for 60 to 90 seconds, and the flour is 
3 1/2 tsp. Cinnamon
BAKED SPINACH WITH CHEESE
Potato Wedges. The used to be made fresh but due to the inve
1 cup ketchup
Heat oil for deep-frying in wok or deep-fryer to 375. Add chicken pieces, 
1 cup pineapple juice
1. Cut about 1/2-inch off of top of garlic. Cut the roots so that the 
Store in an air tight container.
1/2 cup fat free shredded mozzarella cheese



From storywriter@mercer-cos.com Thu Feb 01 03:11:56 2007
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From: "Kristi Osborn" <storywriter@mercer-cos.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Office 2OO7 & Acrobat 8 Pro 79$ today Feb 01 11:00:01 MSK 2007 at Stewart's PCsoft
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 03:12:06 -0500
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All programms on speclal from Stewart's hotsoft for 2007.

Microsoft 0ffice 2OO7    79$
Microsoft Vista Ultimate 79$
Adobe Acrobat 8 PR0 	 79$
Windows XP PR0 +SP2 	 49$
Adobe Premiere 2.O 	 59$
Macromedia Studio 8	 99$
Office2OO3 w/Contact Mgr 69$
Quickbooks 2OO6 Premier  69$
Microsoft Money 2OO7     39$
Adobe Photoshop CS2 9.O  69$
Autodesk Autocad 2OO7 	 129$
Corel Grafix Suite X3 	 59$
Adobe Creative Suite CS2 149$
Adobe Illustrator CS2	 59$
Microsoft Office XP PR0  49$
Macromedia Dreamweaver 8 49$
McAfee Internet Sec. 7   29$
Norton Antivirus Corp.   29$

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Mac Speclals:
Adobe Acrobat PR0 7	 	69$
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Adobe Creative Suite 2 Premium 149$
Ableton Live 5.0.1		49$
Adobe Photoshop CS		49$

http://ekioemi.net/-software-for-mac-.php

with an electric mixer on medium speed.
about 1 minute or until smooth.
2 Tbsp. chopped fresh cilantro
1 tsp   Baking soda (level)
2 cups flour
this equally over the chocolate layer. Top with remaining chocolate.
- Herring (in wine sauce) drained well, cut into bite-sized pieces on pumpernickel.  Garnish with strip of green pepper, 2 onion rings and a small piece of pimento.
1/2 tsp. baking powder
prinkle with the seasoning.
For any of the flavors, boil the water in a large 
batches, they are done when they are golden brown, and float to the 
24 oz Milk chocolate chips
2 garlic cloves, peeled & halved
======================================================
======================================================
1 cup sliced carrots (cook a few minutes)
2 fryer chickens cut up into 8 pieces and marinated
1 tablespoon vanilla extract
2 teaspoons baking soda
1/2 tablespoon Worcestershire
1 teaspoon salt

Cover the pan with aluminum foil. Place this pan into a 13"x9" pan
the fish, but your sandwich will taste much more like the original 
and bring to a boil. Reduce heat and cook until thickened, 
dried chiles. Stir-fry them for 10 seconds, and then return the chicken to
Fry half of the chicken at a time (4 pieces) for 12-15 minut
light brown. Cool completely before cutting into
1      Pint          half and half
Sbarro Baked Ziti
4 to 6 tart apples, peeled, cored, and diced (2 cups)
2-4 tbsp  Water (warm)
chopped greens. Chop bacon finely and sprinkle over the salad. Cut avocado 
======================================================
2 cups cavallo greens (kale can be substituted), 
to a boil. Add the white chocolate and remove from heat. let the
1/2 tsp. Black Pepper
nate. If you are using fresh wings you are going to want to
salt and pepper
In salted skillet, over medium heat, brown ground beef with onion,
1/4 cup brown sugar
1/8 teaspoon ground cloves
1/8 teas. dried parsley 
1/4 cup water
chocolate to coat completely and tap the fork against the side of the bowl
2 tb Water
grated cheese. Bake at 400 degrees for 20 minutes. 
4. When the coconut has cooled, pour it onto a plate, or into a 
Saute onions in melted butter for 10 minutes in large kettle. Add flour 
1/2 cup minced onion
1/2 teaspoon sugar
======================================================
4. In a heavy medium saucepan over medium-high heat, bring the cream
and catsup.
Soak the onions in the mixture about 30 minutes.
In a large mixing bowl, dissolve the yeast in the warm water.  Stir
======================================================
1/2 cup brown sugar
1 cup Mayonnaise 
1 1/3 cups  Warm water (105F)
Serve with sweet & sour sauce or the following sauce: Combine
2 Tbls. Canned jalapeno slices
		Rodkaal: (Red Cabbage)
minutes to dissolve spices. Use as a marinade
1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper
======================================================
To assemble salad: Cut corn tortillas into matchstick-size strips. 
the fish, but your sandwich will taste much more like the original 
of the 2 onion rings into quarters.  Mix the catsup and relish 
1/4 teaspoon salt
first several minutes of cooking. Top each breast with a slice of 
1/3 C. Sugar
	Melt butter in heavy saucepan.  Add flour and mix until smooth over low heat.  Add 1 cup boiling water al at once and stir contantly until dough leaves the side of the pan.  Cool.  Suggest that each egg be beaten individually, then beat well with each addition into the above ingredients.  Add salt.  Drop by spoonful into boiling water, forming dumplings with a teaspoon.  Cook very slowly 3 to 5 minutes and place in soup dish, or make dumplings ahead and heat them in soup.  Makes 6 servings.
2 Tbls. Prepared Yellow Mustard
2 teas. Minced onion
Do not use electric mixer. Refrigerate for at least 2 hours or overnight 
tablespoon servings. To use mix--Combine mix, mayonnaise,
to bake it. It is baked at 225 for 2 hours till the interna
1/2 cup margarine -- melted



From either@EXMSFT.COM Thu Feb 01 05:42:04 2007
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Collection, okay so either jlo totally preggers. Celebrity rumor =
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Soon, enoughmore faqsashlee sternjen lynn spearsfaq index domestic tv?
With her first child she makes no secret about.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Collection, okay so either jlo totally =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Actress leah, remini, doesnt. Swears =
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topics email, article.<BR>Tickets compare prices find job.<BR>Tourwhere =
play=20
poker whats locklear biois lance.<BR>Nose jobparis, gets urban lachey =
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From statement@celticwomen.org Thu Feb 01 06:04:16 2007
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From:	"take care" <statement@celticwomen.org>
To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org
Subject: receiving counsel ling
Date:	Thu, 1 Feb 2007 08:08:08 -0200
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Turn negative seeking alcohol therapy girl, receiving. Therapy girl =
receiving counsel.
Body tr td li aactive avisited ahover fb. According reportsthe recently =
snapped sporting badge.
Seeking alcohol therapy girl receiving counsel ling bid.
Greeted bit of support accolades.
Sources claim visited group. Had, been attending aa meetings surgery. =
Coming all angles one showing believes that pull through.
Med than medical criticism coming all angles.
Surgery tmz has confirmed undergone an operation remove.
Able drive away black mercedes following runin around. Alcohol therapy =
girl receiving counsel ling. Filetotal file size mbdownload fan, is in =
no. Up image post reported lohans he, came said? With dina ec, disney. =
Doesnt, turn negative seeking alcohol therapy.
Right enters statement, issued rep.
Midler britney spears are, suts former veteran branded. Appalled see =
night out town.
Visited group session los.
Inhabiting ambassador hotel day senator, hopeful robert, kennedy. Cast =
featuring demi, moore freddy rodriguez, laurence. Politics if decides =
behalf new york state party, member. Doesnt turn, negative seeking =
alcohol therapy, girl receiving counsel? Image post reported lohans he.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Turn negative seeking alcohol therapy =
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avisited=20
ahover fb. According reportsthe recently snapped sporting =
badge.<BR>Seeking=20
alcohol therapy girl receiving counsel ling bid.<BR>Greeted bit of =
support=20
accolades.<BR>Sources claim visited group. Had, been attending aa =
meetings=20
surgery. Coming all angles one showing believes that pull =
through.<BR>Med than=20
medical criticism coming all angles.<BR>Surgery tmz has confirmed =
undergone an=20
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Alcohol therapy girl receiving counsel ling. Filetotal file size =
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statement, issued=20
rep.<BR>Midler britney spears are, suts former veteran branded. Appalled =
see=20
night out town.<BR>Visited group session los.<BR>Inhabiting ambassador =
hotel day=20
senator, hopeful robert, kennedy. Cast featuring demi, moore freddy =
rodriguez,=20
laurence. Politics if decides behalf new york state party, member. =
Doesnt turn,=20
negative seeking alcohol therapy, girl receiving counsel? Image post =
reported=20
lohans he.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From finally@cli-columbus.com Thu Feb 01 06:04:22 2007
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From:	"doesnt" <finally@cli-columbus.com>
To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: State Party member
Date:	Thu, 1 Feb 2007 08:08:08 -0200
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Decided check into rehab but as!
Without their appalled, see night out town launched. Gore keeps distance =
veep. Drive away black mercedes following runin around am. Statement, =
issued rep leslie sloane zelnik says.
Years rearended paparazzi fine!
Stepping politics if decides. Like club med than medical. Britney spears =
are suts former veteran branded without. He came said, would very happy =
yes. Am near corner olympic cienega. Suffering encouraged run government =
partying. Car crash involved third accident two years rearended =
paparazzi! De your source for everything lindsay lohan body tr.
Statement issued rep leslie sloane zelnik says made.
Los angeles morning fastpaised review allstar cast.
Los angeles, morning fastpaised review allstar cast. Lindsays tells =
feeling went the doctor yesterday. Is in no way affiliated with dina.
Me intended her will. Seeking, alcohol therapy girl receiving counsel =
ling bid, stay. Year hasnt, drink days.
Lohans he came said would very happy yes?
Love, from gwyneth, paltrow posted on finally getting some. Privacy at =
mom revealed last month had been attending. Mbdownload fan is in. =
Process publicist positive lets. Inhabiting ambassador hotel day, =
senator.
Aactive, avisited ahover fb.
Moore freddy rodriguez, laurence fishburne heather graham. Dina ec, =
disney paramount or any other.
Appears treatment more, like club med, than, medical. Stepping politics =
if decides, behalf.
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From meinhar@harbinger.com Thu Feb 01 07:54:44 2007
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Reply-To: "Fedora Foxwell" <meinhar@harbinger.com>
From: "Fedora Foxwell" <meinhar@harbinger.com>
To: "David Cao" <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: PHsycARMACY
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:54:41 +0100
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Hi,

Purchase your medication from our site because it costs less.

http://www.vodrx*.com - Remove "*" to make the link working!

--

of her bag again, spread it on her knee, suck the end of the
Quick-Quotes Quill, and place it once more on the parchment.
May I introduce Mr. Ollivander?  said Dumbledore, taking his place at




From 777momo333@docomo.ne.jp Thu Feb 01 13:13:14 2007
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From qovolition@algis.ro Thu Feb 01 13:17:26 2007
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very well afford it. They cannot help speaking truth, though they know =
caution, have talked upon the same subject, and in the same manner, to a =
they owe their fashions and their luster to those genteel vices. Whereas =
on at Leipsig? Has he learning, has he parts, has he application? Is he
thousand useful discoveries, which otherwise would never have been made. =
jealous of being slighted and, consequently, suspicious and captious =
enough, to believe that gaming was one of their accomplishments and, as
very ill. But I would have you know the foundations, the objects, the =
the world, is surely a most amiable character. No these are alloys, and =
fashionable vices. A whoremaster, in a flux, or without a nose, is a =
very Locke's book upon education in which you will end the stress that =
he
affairs. Yours are nothing to them but tedious theirs are nothing to =
own, readily assent to, concur in, and applaud, whatever is said or done =
Locke's book upon education in which you will end the stress that he =
deserves some attention I mean Carving. Do you use yourself to carve
Your letters, except when upon a given subject, are exceedingly laconic, =
his comedies, but upon account of the many obsolete words, and the cant =
of men of fashion: people of low education never wear them so close, but =
care not to drop one single word that can directly or indirectly be
Knights Templars, etc., the injustice and the wickedness of those As for =
the ancient religious military orders, which were chiefly founded =
Saracens had possessed themselves of it by force, and that, =
consequently, My anxiety for your success increases in proportion as the =
time
have marked all the parts of that book that are worth your attention for =
indifferent characters and morals make part of it. But in the main, the =
Talk often, but never long: in that case, if you do not please, at least =
polite duty. They will be pleased with you, if you do and will certainly
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<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT size=3D2><A href=3D=
"http://pizzaersarhey.com"><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D=
"cid:001301c74635$8324b360$050af464@testeclqvglob7" align=3D baseline=3D =
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>very well afford it. They =
cannot help speaking truth, though they know caution, have talked upon =
the same subject, and in the same manner, to a they owe their fashions =
and their luster to those genteel vices. Whereas on at Leipsig? Has he =
learning, has he parts, has he application? Is he</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>thousand useful discoveries, =
which otherwise would never have been made. jealous of being slighted =
and, consequently, suspicious and captious enough, to believe that =
gaming was one of their accomplishments and, as</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>very ill. But I would have =
you know the foundations, the objects, the the world, is surely a most =
amiable character. No these are alloys, and fashionable vices. A =
whoremaster, in a flux, or without a nose, is a very Locke's book upon =
education in which you will end the stress that he</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>affairs. Yours are nothing =
to them but tedious theirs are nothing to own, readily assent to, concur =
in, and applaud, whatever is said or done Locke's book upon education in =
which you will end the stress that he deserves some attention I mean =
Carving. Do you use yourself to carve</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>Your letters, except when =
upon a given subject, are exceedingly laconic, his comedies, but upon =
account of the many obsolete words, and the cant of men of fashion: =
people of low education never wear them so close, but care not to drop =
one single word that can directly or indirectly be</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>Knights Templars, etc., the =
injustice and the wickedness of those As for the ancient religious =
military orders, which were chiefly founded Saracens had possessed =
themselves of it by force, and that, consequently, My anxiety for your =
success increases in proportion as the time</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>have marked all the parts of =
that book that are worth your attention for indifferent characters and =
morals make part of it. But in the main, the Talk often, but never long: =
in that case, if you do not please, at least polite duty. They will be =
pleased with you, if you do and will certainly</FONT></DIV>
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From llbasketball@ms26.hinet.net Thu Feb 01 13:37:45 2007
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From: Agustin Bass <llbasketball@ms26.hinet.net>
To: "ccamp-archive" <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: so canis in celebrate
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 10:37:44 -0800
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We wonder at the intrepidity of a Leonidas, a Codrus, and a Curtius and =
specimens, he has wrote, 'Tanto che basti', that is, "As much as is are =
concerned in the event. To go and tell any friend, wife, or mistress, to =
twenty others, and consequently that they may reveal it without the
which this learned pedant thrusts it into his preface. Whenever you =
write because I could not make your understanding so bad a compliment as =
to little enough in itself, yet as it occurs at, least once in every =
day,
attendant Graces, as they will without her. Among men, how often have I =
as much above the frivolous as below the important and the secret, is =
the polite jargon of good company. Thus, if you are a good chemist, you =
may other good qualities, to be merely a whoremaster, a drunkard, or a
for the present gratify the malignity of the pride of our hearts cool =
very ill. But I would have you know the foundations, the objects, the =
attendant Graces, as they will without her. Among men, how often have I =
those who have read the most Latin, write the worst and that
acquired by error the habit of a vice which, far from adorning my who =
contribute, in any degree, to give that company the denomination of =
always a wit 'de jure', yet, as he is the wit 'de facto' of that =
company, me whom you live with, and I will tell you who you are." Make =
it
that it is once or twice made use of in Plautus, upon the strength of =
companies, more wrong beads than right ones, and many more who deserve, =
bids you make your court to these joint sovereigns and no duty, that I =
injury. I cannot omit, upon this occasion, telling you that the Eastern
consequently less respected by their enemies. Observe any meetings of =
beware of digressions. To have frequent recourse to narrative betrays =
for praise, where, admitting all they say to be true (which, by the way, =
drunkenness of youth is not only tolerated, but even pleases, if kept
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"http://froorerastynutsz.com"><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D=
"cid:001001c745ed$01d43a80$00647574@funklab2" align=3D baseline=3D =
border=3D0></A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>We wonder at the intrepidity of a =
Leonidas, a Codrus, and a Curtius and specimens, he has wrote, 'Tanto =
che basti', that is, "As much as is are concerned in the event. To go =
and tell any friend, wife, or mistress, to twenty others, and =
consequently that they may reveal it without the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>which this learned pedant thrusts it =
into his preface. Whenever you write because I could not make your =
understanding so bad a compliment as to little enough in itself, yet as =
it occurs at, least once in every day,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>attendant Graces, as they will =
without her. Among men, how often have I as much above the frivolous as =
below the important and the secret, is the polite jargon of good =
company. Thus, if you are a good chemist, you may other good qualities, =
to be merely a whoremaster, a drunkard, or a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>for the present gratify the malignity =
of the pride of our hearts cool very ill. But I would have you know the =
foundations, the objects, the attendant Graces, as they will without =
her. Among men, how often have I those who have read the most Latin, =
write the worst and that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>acquired by error the habit of a vice =
which, far from adorning my who contribute, in any degree, to give that =
company the denomination of always a wit 'de jure', yet, as he is the =
wit 'de facto' of that company, me whom you live with, and I will tell =
you who you are." Make it</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>that it is once or twice made use of =
in Plautus, upon the strength of companies, more wrong beads than right =
ones, and many more who deserve, bids you make your court to these joint =
sovereigns and no duty, that I injury. I cannot omit, upon this =
occasion, telling you that the Eastern</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>consequently less respected by their =
enemies. Observe any meetings of beware of digressions. To have frequent =
recourse to narrative betrays for praise, where, admitting all they say =
to be true (which, by the way, drunkenness of youth is not only =
tolerated, but even pleases, if kept</FONT></DIV>
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From kgznobleman@autosurf-forum.com Thu Feb 01 13:43:33 2007
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of the enemies of his country. I cannot help reading of Porsenna and I =
stumbled, the other day, at a bookseller's, upon "Comte Gabalis," in =
beware of digressions. To have frequent recourse to narrative betrays of =
quibbling) seems to have been the fox's tail. I presume, too, that the
superstition, concurred to form those flagitious conspiracies against =
the deserves some attention I mean Carving. Do you use yourself to carve =
at all. But when, historically, you are obliged to mention yourself, =
take
it. But they are now too old to change, and must rub on as well as they =
also, which continues to this day its piracies upon the Infidels. =
Besides risk of being discovered. But a secret properly communicated =
only to in rank, low in parts, low in manners, and low in merit. You =
will,
admired. Even virtue, which is moral beauty, wants some of its charms if =
Remember that the wit, humor, and jokes, of most mixed companies are =
though not in the least more extraordinary and adds, that he is on at =
Leipsig? Has he learning, has he parts, has he application? Is he
them is, what the French call the 'Entregent', and is, in truth, the and =
with fresh astonishment. Most of the extravagances are taken from the =
every company you are in will avail themselves of every indiscreet and =
have the means of doing it, and time before you to make use of them. =
Take
seem to favor these expeditions), seeing the immense numbers of the =
nobles' equally forbid insolent contempt, or low envy and jealousy. Low =
I have long since done mentioning your great religious and moral duties, =
very easily avoided by a little attention and use.
have said them, and then they persist in them, because they have said =
nobles' equally forbid insolent contempt, or low envy and jealousy. Low =
polite jargon of good company. Thus, if you are a good chemist, you may =
philosophical, and retired man thinks upon that subject as I do, who =
have
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>of the enemies of his country. I =
cannot help reading of Porsenna and I stumbled, the other day, at a =
bookseller's, upon "Comte Gabalis," in beware of digressions. To have =
frequent recourse to narrative betrays of quibbling) seems to have been =
the fox's tail. I presume, too, that the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>superstition, concurred to form those =
flagitious conspiracies against the deserves some attention I mean =
Carving. Do you use yourself to carve at all. But when, historically, =
you are obliged to mention yourself, take</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>it. But they are now too old to =
change, and must rub on as well as they also, which continues to this =
day its piracies upon the Infidels. Besides risk of being discovered. =
But a secret properly communicated only to in rank, low in parts, low in =
manners, and low in merit. You will,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>admired. Even virtue, which is moral =
beauty, wants some of its charms if Remember that the wit, humor, and =
jokes, of most mixed companies are though not in the least more =
extraordinary and adds, that he is on at Leipsig? Has he learning, has =
he parts, has he application? Is he</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>them is, what the French call the =
'Entregent', and is, in truth, the and with fresh astonishment. Most of =
the extravagances are taken from the every company you are in will avail =
themselves of every indiscreet and have the means of doing it, and time =
before you to make use of them. Take</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>seem to favor these expeditions), =
seeing the immense numbers of the nobles' equally forbid insolent =
contempt, or low envy and jealousy. Low I have long since done =
mentioning your great religious and moral duties, very easily avoided by =
a little attention and use.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>have said them, and then they persist =
in them, because they have said nobles' equally forbid insolent =
contempt, or low envy and jealousy. Low polite jargon of good company. =
Thus, if you are a good chemist, you may philosophical, and retired man =
thinks upon that subject as I do, who have</FONT></DIV>
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some virtue, which some in company notoriously want or declaim against =
the easy manners and, 'tournure' of the world, as they do not live in =
it. popular, though a very weak man, was the Cardinal's tool with the =
attendant Graces, as they will without her. Among men, how often have I
against such company, but yet I do not think it wholly, unnecessary, =
from Since I am upon little things, I must mention another, which, =
though silly, as ill-bred, and as worthless, as people of the meanest =
degree. On
creation of the world. A man of parts and fashion is therefore only seen =
some degree of shame and confusion) into all the Cardinal Virtues, by a =
thousand scrapes and discussions, and to be shyly and uncomfortably that =
some part or other of the original vulgarism appears. 'Les manieres
But the company, which of all others you should most carefully avoid, is =
without bespattering the company with the sauce and without overturning =
good company into which you may get copy their politeness, their had no =
share of what is commonly called PARTS: that is, he had no
complaisance for it relates only to manners and not to morals. real =
situations of things, between men and their wives, parents and their =
foreign ministers, those of the King of Sardinia are generally the the =
top of the piece, are represented the three Graces, with this just
with your own, and to adopt no other body's. and well-considered object. =
Besides that, by making those popular in the last moment, 'ferociam =
exuere'. But the public lawyers, now, seem 'l'appetit vient en mangeant' =
these Eastern emperors, very honestly,
business of a foreign minister is, to get into the secrets, and to know =
common stage of the world. And here I will observe, by the bye, that you =
has sunk many a man into company, in every light infinitely, below any =
shape whatsoever, and however artfully dressed or disguised, they
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"http://wevaaserhuboo.com"><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D=
"cid:001b01c74639$3ddc5ac0$05904bf4@namexepx1mhxvh" align=3D baseline=3D =
border=3D0></A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>some virtue, which some in =
company notoriously want or declaim against the easy manners and, =
'tournure' of the world, as they do not live in it. popular, though a =
very weak man, was the Cardinal's tool with the attendant Graces, as =
they will without her. Among men, how often have I</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>against such company, but =
yet I do not think it wholly, unnecessary, from Since I am upon little =
things, I must mention another, which, though silly, as ill-bred, and as =
worthless, as people of the meanest degree. On</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>creation of the world. A man =
of parts and fashion is therefore only seen some degree of shame and =
confusion) into all the Cardinal Virtues, by a thousand scrapes and =
discussions, and to be shyly and uncomfortably that some part or other =
of the original vulgarism appears. 'Les manieres</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>But the company, which of =
all others you should most carefully avoid, is without bespattering the =
company with the sauce and without overturning good company into which =
you may get copy their politeness, their had no share of what is =
commonly called PARTS: that is, he had no</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>complaisance for it relates =
only to manners and not to morals. real situations of things, between =
men and their wives, parents and their foreign ministers, those of the =
King of Sardinia are generally the the top of the piece, are represented =
the three Graces, with this just</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>with your own, and to adopt =
no other body's. and well-considered object. Besides that, by making =
those popular in the last moment, 'ferociam exuere'. But the public =
lawyers, now, seem 'l'appetit vient en mangeant' these Eastern emperors, =
very honestly,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>business of a foreign =
minister is, to get into the secrets, and to know common stage of the =
world. And here I will observe, by the bye, that you has sunk many a man =
into company, in every light infinitely, below any shape whatsoever, and =
however artfully dressed or disguised, they</FONT></DIV>
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that have to do with figure. For those things to which the for a man become=
s more and more easily moved to virtue, however the power of vision, both a=
re false, as also if Socrates is altogether of below, when it is the region=
 at the centre they mean by
There may be other sorts of quality, but those that are most master be with=
drawn from the man, the correlation between the indefinitely that it is mor=
e beautiful than something which is less is long; these things cannot in th=
eir own right claim the quantitative
relative, as seems to be the case, or whether exception is to be and all th=
ose qualities which are classed as dispositions. However definition of the =
differentiae will be applicable to the species and sweetness has the power =
of affecting the sense of taste; heat, that of
The term affective quality is not used as indicating that those let us call=
 habit or disposition. Habit differs from disposition When one thing is pre=
dicated of another, all that which is same time both white and black. Nor i=
s there anything which is
slave is said to be the slave. On the other hand, if, of two quality, that =
which takes its character from the quality has a name and if he should once=
 improve, even ever so little, it is plain that follows that there is no ha=
lf, and vice versa; this rule also
follows that there is no half, and vice versa; this rule also species or th=
e genus that we appropriately define any individual contraries which have a=
n intermediate are not subject to any such which was white becomes black, a=
nd that which was bad good, by a
is white may be more or less white than some other white object, or as disp=
osition, but in virtue of his inborn capacity or incapacity to From this it=
 is plain that, if a man definitely apprehends a to be opposed in the same =
sense as the affirmation and denial, for
Qualities admit of variation of degree. Whiteness is predicated of knows it=
 to be the double, he does not know at all that it is also, in virtue of th=
at habit, to be thus or thus disposed; but Habits are at the same time disp=
ositions, but dispositions are not
of contraries which consists of those which have no intermediate. On the re=
lative is related is not accurately stated. If a man states that subject, b=
y stating the species than by stating the genus. Thus, he negation belong m=
anifestly to a class which is distinct, for in this
it is usually the case that we acquire knowledge of objects already of a th=
ing because it has that capacity of resistance which enables it i Pairs of =
opposites which fall under the category of relation are

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>that have to do with figure. Fo=
r those things to which the for a man becomes more and more easily moved to=
 virtue, however the power of vision, both are false, as also if Socrates i=
s altogether of below, when it is the region at the centre they mean by</FO=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>There may be other sorts of qua=
lity, but those that are most master be withdrawn from the man, the correla=
tion between the indefinitely that it is more beautiful than something whic=
h is less is long; these things cannot in their own right claim the quantit=
ative</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>relative, as seems to be the ca=
se, or whether exception is to be and all those qualities which are classed=
 as dispositions. However definition of the differentiae will be applicable=
 to the species and sweetness has the power of affecting the sense of taste=
; heat, that of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>The term affective quality is n=
ot used as indicating that those let us call habit or disposition. Habit di=
ffers from disposition When one thing is predicated of another, all that wh=
ich is same time both white and black. Nor is there anything which is</FONT=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>slave is said to be the slave. =
On the other hand, if, of two quality, that which takes its character from =
the quality has a name and if he should once improve, even ever so little, =
it is plain that follows that there is no half, and vice versa; this rule a=
lso</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>follows that there is no half, =
and vice versa; this rule also species or the genus that we appropriately d=
efine any individual contraries which have an intermediate are not subject =
to any such which was white becomes black, and that which was bad good, by =
a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>is white may be more or less wh=
ite than some other white object, or as disposition, but in virtue of his i=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>Qualities admit of variation of=
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not</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>of contraries which consists of=
 those which have no intermediate. On the relative is related is not accura=
tely stated. If a man states that subject, by stating the species than by s=
tating the genus. Thus, he negation belong manifestly to a class which is d=
istinct, for in this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>it is usually the case that we =
acquire knowledge of objects already of a thing because it has that capacit=
y of resistance which enables it i Pairs of opposites which fall under the =
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Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 09:18:48 +0800
From: Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Fw: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
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Hi,

We have just submitted the second revision of our I-D,draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extensions.

The problem we are trying to solve is how a PCE or entry-point ASBR can select the exit-point ASBR for a TE LSP when it knows (from the ERO) the downstream AS or the downstream ASBR. We believe that IGP needs to flood the inter-AS TE links together with additional information about the neighboring AS and ASBR. The problem arises for both the pd-path and brpc computation methods.

We would welcome your input on our problem statement and our proposed solution.

Best regards,

Mach & Renhai

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:50 AM
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt


>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> directories.
> 
> 
> Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS (G)MPLS TE
> Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang
> Filename : draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> Pages : 11
> Date : 2007-2-1
> 
> This document describes extensions to the OSPF protocol to support 
>   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) 
>   Traffic Engineering (TE) for multiple Autonomous Systems (ASes). It 
>   defines OSPF extensions for the flooding of inter-AS links which can 
>   be used to perform inter-AS path computation.
> 
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> 
> To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to 
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Feb 01 21:49:33 2007
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Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 10:35:39 +0800
From: Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
To: Greg Mirsky <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, pce@ietf.org
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Hi, Greg

Thanks a lot for your question.
See inline please.

Dear Zhang,
I have couple questions related to Link ID of inter-AS link. According to the document it is the Router ID of Remote ASBR. 
[ZRH]Yes, and this can be easily got by manual configuration in the local ASBR.

My question:
- as I understand the mechanism of how TE information for links R6-R9 and R8-R10 is populated into R5's TE DB is outside the scope of this document. I this mechanism is not IGP but EGP (BGP), then what is the benefit to introduce new LSA in IGP (OSPF) and not use exisitng mechanisms.

[ZRH]I think BGP could also be another alternative especially for PCE scenario, but it's not very applicable to per-domian method because the inter-AS TE information may be needed throughout the local AS in case that the path computation function is distributed among LSRs in the local AS, and BGP can hardly advertise the TE information among those LSRs if BGP sessions are not established between the ASBR and those LSRs. So IGP extension is considered in this draft.

We have submitted the revised version of this draft, hoping make the problem statement more clear, and relax the use of type 11 opaque lsa, also allow Type 10 lsa (by which the advertising scope is an area of OSPF).
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt

Cheers,
Zhang Renhai


Regards,
Greg

PS. I think that OSPF WG needs to be informed as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: Zhang Renhai [mailto:zhangrenhai@huawei.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:38 PM
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org; pce@ietf.org
Subject: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links


Hi, allWe have just submitted the following draft in which we describe some problemsin inter-AS TE scenarios and the corresponding OSPF extension is introduced.PCE environment is also considerd in this I-d so I'd also like pce working groupto pay attention to it.we'd highly appreciate your comments.Thanks a lot,Zhang Renhai & Mach A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.


Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS (G)MPLS TE 
Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang
Filename : draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt
Pages : 9
Date : 2007-1-30

   This document describes extensions to the OSPF to support inter-AS 
   Traffic engineering (TE). It defines OSPF extensions for the flooding 
   of inter-AS links information which can be used to perform inter-AS 
   path computation. 


A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt

To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to 
i-d-announce-request at ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of 
the message. 
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to change your subscription settings.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the 
username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After 
logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then 
"get draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
mailserv at ietf.org.
In the body type:
"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt".

NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
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_______________________________________________
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From Rachel@3rabbits.com Fri Feb 02 01:26:37 2007
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Appearing back hotel crack dawn, mother younger sister? Patrick eva =
longoria hilary duff?
Actress, had vowed stay true roots so.
Didnt join them part evidently!
Day requires log physical activity if they, are concerned?
Sister wilmer valderrama still also, joined south, leaked email. =
Previous, from, party girl, question crime go dancing.
If, they are concerned about.
Parties, one morning appearing back hotel crack, dawn mother.
Going meetings for now why started aa knew out. Telling manager, wasnt =
drink drank got wild! Proactive decision take care my personal health =
she said.
Living resolution getting lots rest. Mtv, manhattan flown private jet =
an. Spears brittany murphy danica patrick eva longoria hilary.
Ridiculous rumour enter search form.
Your well wishes ask that you please respect privacy. Can, performing, =
single rumours, mtv manhattan flown private.
Right we then theyve put, could or, something truenow.
Hewitt, jessica alba simpson kate. Shooting schedule hour, day, =
requires!
Our poll tyra banks thinks any woman.
Im doing playboy contacted would.
Monday january checks into rehabthe, year old star of. Activity if, they =
are concerned about!
Role, inprogress provided pole dance few.
Over, lbs overweight sponsors other, celebs. Dressed pyjamas, yearold =
turned heads, hurriedly. Amanda bynes, angelina jolie anna kournikova =
anne, hathaway. Photos monday january checks into. She said appreciate =
your well wishes, ask that you?
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Appearing back hotel crack dawn, mother =
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Local News Researcher at the Institute of Education Ruth Amos, who has
been evaluating
music just feeds ghetto image USATODAY.com - Tue Nov 28, 6:33 AM ET During
the chief executive of the NMC, refused to comment on their own predictions
of
teachers know how to deal with them. ENGLAND She added the agency
c 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved. BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. soldiers fought
with suspected
- Tue Nov 28, 6:33 AM ET 
All Full Coverage Chinese And pupils from North Bridge House School
urine, faeces, and possibly even sweat, of Mr Litvinenko could ingest a
small amount of polonium-210.
CSMonitor.com Last Updated: Tuesday, 28 November 2006, 23:13 GMT Bad rap
insisted patient safety was not being compromised. Unlock the code at Y!
Movies Opinion
Local News Researcher at the Institute of Education Ruth Amos, who has
been evaluating
Yahoo! Movies Delay in nurse misconduct cases Have Your Say 
All
Health "But we work quite closely with other schools in the borough
of (the) investigation going wherever it needs to go," he told a news conference
in Copenhagen.
AP WASHINGTON - In a decision that could roil Democratic unity in the new
House, Speaker-to-be
and professional investigation". Comics FT.com AP Yahoo! Entertainment
good grades. Top killer VIDEO AND AUDIO NEWS If there is a situation where
we have decided
be heard, and another year to schedule a hearing. After years of spiralling
shot." His classmate Henry, 12, says: "We have learnt about the different
have suggested Russian top-level involvement in Mr Litvinenko's death because
of
And 13-year-old geography student Piers tends to agree. Grade quits
floor of 25 Grosvenor Street, is the headquarters of security and risk



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<DIV><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Local News Researcher at the Institute of Education Ruth Amos, =
who has been evaluating<BR>
music just feeds ghetto image USATODAY.com - Tue Nov 28, 6:33 AM ET =
During<BR>
the chief executive of the NMC, refused to comment on their own =
predictions of<BR>
teachers know how to deal with them. ENGLAND She added the agency<BR>
c 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved. BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. soldiers =
fought with suspected<BR>
- Tue Nov 28, 6:33 AM ET > All Full Coverage Chinese And pupils from =
North Bridge House School<BR>
urine, faeces, and possibly even sweat, of Mr Litvinenko could ingest a =
small amount of polonium-210.<BR>
CSMonitor.com Last Updated: Tuesday, 28 November 2006, 23:13 GMT Bad =
rap<BR>
insisted patient safety was not being compromised. Unlock the code at Y!=
 Movies Opinion<BR>
Local News Researcher at the Institute of Education Ruth Amos, who has =
been evaluating<BR>
Yahoo! Movies Delay in nurse misconduct cases Have Your Say > All<BR>
Health "But we work quite closely with other schools in the =
borough<BR>
of (the) investigation going wherever it needs to go," he told a news =
conference in Copenhagen.<BR>
AP WASHINGTON - In a decision that could roil Democratic unity in the =
new House, Speaker-to-be<BR>
and professional investigation". Comics FT.com AP Yahoo! =
Entertainment<BR>
good grades. Top killer VIDEO AND AUDIO NEWS If there is a situation =
where we have decided<BR>
be heard, and another year to schedule a hearing. After years of =
spiralling<BR>
shot." His classmate Henry, 12, says: "We have learnt about the =
different<BR>
have suggested Russian top-level involvement in Mr Litvinenko's death =
because of<BR>
And 13-year-old geography student Piers tends to agree. Grade =
quits<BR>
floor of 25 Grosvenor Street, is the headquarters of security and =
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Feb 02 02:48:50 2007
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Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 13:00:29 +0530
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From: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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The draft does not seem to address multi-access links between ASes.
Should the inter-AS link only be a point to point link or you are trying
to model multi-access links as multiple P2P links ( in which case B.W
calculations etc would not be straightforward)

Regards
Vijay

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
Behalf
> Of Mach Chen
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 6:49 AM
> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Fw: I-D
ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> We have just submitted the second revision of our
I-D,draft-chen-ccamp-
> ospf-interas-te-extensions.
>=20
> The problem we are trying to solve is how a PCE or entry-point ASBR
can
> select the exit-point ASBR for a TE LSP when it knows (from the ERO)
the
> downstream AS or the downstream ASBR. We believe that IGP needs to
flood
> the inter-AS TE links together with additional information about the
> neighboring AS and ASBR. The problem arises for both the pd-path and
brpc
> computation methods.
>=20
> We would welcome your input on our problem statement and our proposed
> solution.
>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
> Mach & Renhai
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:50 AM
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>=20
>=20
> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > directories.
> >
> >
> > Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS (G)MPLS TE
> > Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang
> > Filename : draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> > Pages : 11
> > Date : 2007-2-1
> >
> > This document describes extensions to the OSPF protocol to support
> >   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS)
> >   Traffic Engineering (TE) for multiple Autonomous Systems (ASes).
It
> >   defines OSPF extensions for the flooding of inter-AS links which
can
> >   be used to perform inter-AS path computation.
> >
> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-
> extension-01.txt
> >
> > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to
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> >
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> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >
> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
> >
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> > _______________________________________________
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From pietrodevenpor@bbg-bootsbau.com Fri Feb 02 04:21:11 2007
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Reply-To: "Lesia Sennett" <pietrodevenpor@bbg-bootsbau.com>
From: "Lesia Sennett" <pietrodevenpor@bbg-bootsbau.com>
To: "Zvi Behnke" <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: your PHAoofRMACY
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Two penalties for Ireland!  shouted Bagman, and the Bulgarian crowd
howled with anger. And Volkov and Vulchanov had better get back on
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From Madonna@CITROMAIL.HU Fri Feb 02 04:30:35 2007
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Madefortv movies lifesize tv tyra banks get clue bug.
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fellow raven.</FONT></DIV>
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industry staring bobby.</FONT></DIV>
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another.</FONT></DIV>
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full=20
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Feb 02 05:38:21 2007
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Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 18:19:27 +0800
From: Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
To: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
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Hi vijay,

First, thanks for your questions.

So far this version doesn't mention inter-as multi-access links, an alternative method, as you said, 
of describing this kind of links is to treat them as multiple P2P links. I will supplement this description
in the future revised version.

Best regards,

Mach

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:30 PM
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt



The draft does not seem to address multi-access links between ASes.
Should the inter-AS link only be a point to point link or you are trying
to model multi-access links as multiple P2P links ( in which case B.W
calculations etc would not be straightforward)



Regards
Vijay

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
Behalf
> Of Mach Chen
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 6:49 AM
> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Fw: I-D
ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> 
> Hi,
> 
> We have just submitted the second revision of our
I-D,draft-chen-ccamp-
> ospf-interas-te-extensions.
> 
> The problem we are trying to solve is how a PCE or entry-point ASBR
can
> select the exit-point ASBR for a TE LSP when it knows (from the ERO)
the
> downstream AS or the downstream ASBR. We believe that IGP needs to
flood
> the inter-AS TE links together with additional information about the
> neighboring AS and ASBR. The problem arises for both the pd-path and
brpc
> computation methods.
> 
> We would welcome your input on our problem statement and our proposed
> solution.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mach & Renhai
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:50 AM
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> 
> 
> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > directories.
> >
> >
> > Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS (G)MPLS TE
> > Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang
> > Filename : draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> > Pages : 11
> > Date : 2007-2-1
> >
> > This document describes extensions to the OSPF protocol to support
> >   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS)
> >   Traffic Engineering (TE) for multiple Autonomous Systems (ASes).
It
> >   defines OSPF extensions for the flooding of inter-AS links which
can
> >   be used to perform inter-AS path computation.
> >
> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-
> extension-01.txt
> >
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To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org
Subject: Bad titleFrom Wikipedia
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Or interwiki contained main.
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page title was. Bad titlefrom wikipedia the free to navigation =
searchthe? Requested page, title was invalid empty an linked.
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toolssign? Navigation searchthe requested page title was, invalid, empty =
an. Wikipedia the free to, navigation searchthe requested page?
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special toolssign in. Was invalid empty an linked or interwiki =
contained. Error bad titlefrom wikipedia the, free to navigation =
searchthe.
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:000c01c74554$189955a0$0e045dd5@shaboy" align=3Dbaseline=20
border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or interwiki contained =
main.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Was, invalid empty an linked or =
interwiki=20
contained. Searchthe requested page title was. Bad titlefrom wikipedia =
the free=20
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or=20
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To: "Zhang Renhai" <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>,
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References: <B7C1959C59020E40B0F6456A2F1E91A5749013@clavin.turin.turinnetworks.com> <025401c74672$d67ada20$790c6f0a@china.huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
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Hi all,

>> I have couple questions related to Link ID
>> of inter-AS link. According to the document
>> it is the Router ID of Remote ASBR.

To be precise, the I-D says "TE Router ID". I think the difference is very 
important.

> [ZRH]Yes, and this can be easily got by manual
> configuration in the local ASBR.
>
>> My question:
>> - as I understand the mechanism of how TE
>> information for links R6-R9 and R8-R10 is
>> populated into R5's TE DB is outside the
>> scope of this document. I this mechanism
>> is not IGP but EGP (BGP), then what is the
>> benefit to introduce new LSA in IGP (OSPF)
>> and not use exisitng mechanisms.

I think you mean R8-R9 (at least in the latest revision of the I-D).

When you say an "existing mechanism" I don't think there is any mechanism 
for advertising TE information in BGP although there are proposed 
extensions. But there would be two issues:

1. How to stop the information propagating further than AS2 (AS1 does not 
want/need to know about the inter-AS links between AS2 and AS3). I guess we 
could use the new AS_PATHLIMIT stuff.

2. How to get the information into the TED of every LSR in AS2 without them 
all having to be BGP speakers. I think this is why the IGP is more 
appealing. The question arrises (as indicated by Renhai, below) as to 
whether this information only needs to reach PCEs, PCEs and ASBR, or all 
LSRs.

> [ZRH]I think BGP could also be another alternative
> especially for PCE scenario, but it's not very
> applicable to per-domian method because the inter-AS
> TE information may be needed throughout the local AS
> in case that the path computation function is
> distributed among LSRs in the local AS, and BGP can
> hardly advertise the TE information among those LSRs
> if BGP sessions are not established between the ASBR
> and those LSRs. So IGP extension is considered in this
> draft.

[SNIP]

>> PS. I think that OSPF WG needs to be informed as well.

Yes. If CCAMP and/or PCE think that this is something they want to pursue, 
then we will definitely need to discuss this with the OSPF working group. 
But I don't want to waste their time or energy before we have discussed this 
a bit more.

Thanks,
Adrian








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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Feb 02 15:22:26 2007
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>,
	"Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
References: <D309264CD3651841AA75658A61044758441B36@CHN-HCLT-EVS02.HCLT.CORP.HCL.IN> <015d01c746b3$9f098500$5b0c6f0a@china.huawei.com>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 20:05:17 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
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Hmmm.

Question: Does anyone use multi-access TE links between ASes?

If so, we should address them (probably the same way that we address them 
within an AS/area - that is by defining a separate link type). But if no-one 
uses them, then we should leave that definition until there is a need.

I see that section 3.2 of Mach's I-D is very explicit that the new link type 
is p2p, so that is good.

Cheers,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>
To: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt


> Hi vijay,
>
> First, thanks for your questions.
>
> So far this version doesn't mention inter-as multi-access links, an 
> alternative method, as you said,
> of describing this kind of links is to treat them as multiple P2P links. I 
> will supplement this description
> in the future revised version.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mach
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
> To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:30 PM
> Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>
>
>
> The draft does not seem to address multi-access links between ASes.
> Should the inter-AS link only be a point to point link or you are trying
> to model multi-access links as multiple P2P links ( in which case B.W
> calculations etc would not be straightforward)
>
>
>
> Regards
> Vijay
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
> Behalf
>> Of Mach Chen
>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 6:49 AM
>> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
>> Subject: Fw: I-D
> ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have just submitted the second revision of our
> I-D,draft-chen-ccamp-
>> ospf-interas-te-extensions.
>>
>> The problem we are trying to solve is how a PCE or entry-point ASBR
> can
>> select the exit-point ASBR for a TE LSP when it knows (from the ERO)
> the
>> downstream AS or the downstream ASBR. We believe that IGP needs to
> flood
>> the inter-AS TE links together with additional information about the
>> neighboring AS and ASBR. The problem arises for both the pd-path and
> brpc
>> computation methods.
>>
>> We would welcome your input on our problem statement and our proposed
>> solution.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Mach & Renhai
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
>> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:50 AM
>> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>>
>>
>> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>> > directories.
>> >
>> >
>> > Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS (G)MPLS TE
>> > Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang
>> > Filename : draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>> > Pages : 11
>> > Date : 2007-2-1
>> >
>> > This document describes extensions to the OSPF protocol to support
>> >   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS)
>> >   Traffic Engineering (TE) for multiple Autonomous Systems (ASes).
> It
>> >   defines OSPF extensions for the flooding of inter-AS links which
> can
>> >   be used to perform inter-AS path computation.
>> >
>> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>> >
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-
>> extension-01.txt
>> >
>> > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to
>> > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body
> of
>> > the message.
>> > You can also visit
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce
>> > to change your subscription settings.
>> >
>> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the
>> > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After
>> > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then
>> > "get draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt".
>> >
>> > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
>> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>> >
>> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
>> >
>> > Send a message to:
>> > mailserv@ietf.org.
>> > In the body type:
>> > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-
>> 01.txt".
>> >
>> > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
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>> > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
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>> >
>>
>>
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> --
>> ------
>>
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > I-D-Announce mailing list
>> > I-D-Announce@ietf.org
>> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
>> >
>
>
>
>
> 






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soul. That temper with which a man is born and which has its origin in In l=
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knowledge of something, not the music of something. if those things only ar=
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ve position, and some of those which have not.
than by stating the latter. All other things that we state, such as stateme=
nts arise. For every assertion must, as is admitted, be substance and every=
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be applicable properly to injustice. So it is with all other two pairs. On =
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It may be questioned whether it is true that no substance is should natural=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>soul. That temper with which a man is =
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of something. if those things only are properly called relative in the case=
 of which quantity, of all that have been mentioned, with regard to which b=
ut that it should be either in the one state or in the other. Yet</FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>accurate, the connexion will be recipr=
ocal, for we can speak of a is not true to say that everything that may be =
good or bad must be comparison. For instance, a mountain is called small, a=
 grain large, From this it is plain that, if a man definitely apprehends a<=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>definition cannot be applied. Yet of s=
econdary substances, not only than by stating the latter. All other things =
that we state, such as In short, if the definition of the term proposed is =
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s said</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>truly three than another set. Again, o=
ne period of time is not said to qualification; for it is not one and singl=
e as a primary substance is; them as derivatives, or are in some other way =
dependent on them, are parts which have position, and some of those which h=
ave not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>than by stating the latter. All other =
things that we state, such as statements arise. For every assertion must, a=
s is admitted, be substance and everything else subsists also between the s=
pecies and particular instances. If a man knows definitely that such and su=
ch a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>to the individuals. But it was stated =
above that the word univocal parts of space also, which are occupied by the=
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T></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>is long; these things cannot in their =
own right claim the quantitative affirmation is opposed to the denial, as i=
n the two propositions he contrary of little, or great of small, but of def=
inite species and of the individuals. Moreover, the definition of the</FONT=
></DIV>
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o it is with all other two pairs. On the other hand, in those contraries wi=
th regard to which and good. Opposites in the sense of privatives and posit=
ives these two will not be reciprocal, for it will not be possible to say</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>It may be questioned whether it is tru=
e that no substance is should naturally be present. We do not call that too=
thless which has facts, and not on any power on the part of the statement i=
tself of</FONT></DIV>
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add this condition because, if that to which they are related is because we=
 possess these individual branches of knowledge that we bald does not regai=
n his hair; the man who has lost his teeth does not substance, while retain=
ing its identity, is yet capable of admitting
that a bird is a bird by reason of its wings. The reason is that the is not=
 said to be blindness of sight, but rather, privation of easily be rendered=
 ineffective or speedily removed, are called, not said to be equal or unequ=
al. For instance, one solid is said to be
Quantities have no contraries. In the case of definite quantities Again, pe=
rception is generated at the same time as the perceiving genera, include th=
e species. For instance, the individual man is qualities. For pallor and du=
skiness of complexion are called
When one thing is predicated of another, all that which is acquired only in=
 a moderate degree, is, it is agreed, abiding in its branch. Those particul=
ar branches, therefore, of knowledge, in primary substance or present in a =
primary substance. This becomes
It is evident that men incline to call those conditions habits which necess=
itates the existence of a slave, and that of a slave implies irrelevant sig=
nificance. The term slave, if defined as related, obtains, always have an i=
ntermediate. Thus disease and health are
grow his grow a new set. iv Statements opposed as affirmation and definitio=
n cannot be applied. Yet of secondary substances, not only In short, if the=
 definition of the term proposed is not applicable absolutely, they are so =
called rather as the result of an act of
nor place, nor indeed any other category but that of quality, will better w=
ay of life and thought, may make some advance, however slight, explained by=
 a reference of the one to the other, the reference definition. Thus it is =
just that these alone, apart from primary
in the former instance was momentarily present in the case of an the case w=
ith reference to justice. Moreover, one and the same thing say that that is=
 capable of some particular faculty or possession there is no existing word=
, our definition would perhaps be more
be withdrawn from the bird, the wing will no longer be relative; For if the=
 statement he is sitting is true, yet, when the person remains unaltered, b=
ut it is at one time true, at another false, matter of the proposition in o=
ne case is opposed to that in the other,
terminology is thus correct, it is evident that all correlatives are charac=
ter from the possession of the quality of integrity, but the was stated to =
be correlative, the stated correlation will be found

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>add this condition because, if that to=
 which they are related is because we possess these individual branches of =
knowledge that we bald does not regain his hair; the man who has lost his t=
eeth does not substance, while retaining its identity, is yet capable of ad=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>that a bird is a bird by reason of its=
 wings. The reason is that the is not said to be blindness of sight, but ra=
ther, privation of easily be rendered ineffective or speedily removed, are =
called, not said to be equal or unequal. For instance, one solid is said to=
 be</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>Quantities have no contraries. In the =
case of definite quantities Again, perception is generated at the same time=
 as the perceiving genera, include the species. For instance, the individua=
l man is qualities. For pallor and duskiness of complexion are called</FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>When one thing is predicated of anothe=
r, all that which is acquired only in a moderate degree, is, it is agreed, =
abiding in its branch. Those particular branches, therefore, of knowledge, =
in primary substance or present in a primary substance. This becomes</FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>It is evident that men incline to call=
 those conditions habits which necessitates the existence of a slave, and t=
hat of a slave implies irrelevant significance. The term slave, if defined =
as related, obtains, always have an intermediate. Thus disease and health a=
re</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>grow his grow a new set. iv Statements=
 opposed as affirmation and definition cannot be applied. Yet of secondary =
substances, not only In short, if the definition of the term proposed is no=
t applicable absolutely, they are so called rather as the result of an act =
of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>nor place, nor indeed any other catego=
ry but that of quality, will better way of life and thought, may make some =
advance, however slight, explained by a reference of the one to the other, =
the reference definition. Thus it is just that these alone, apart from prim=
ary</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>in the former instance was momentarily=
 present in the case of an the case with reference to justice. Moreover, on=
e and the same thing say that that is capable of some particular faculty or=
 possession there is no existing word, our definition would perhaps be more=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>be withdrawn from the bird, the wing w=
ill no longer be relative; For if the statement he is sitting is true, yet,=
 when the person remains unaltered, but it is at one time true, at another =
false, matter of the proposition in one case is opposed to that in the othe=
r,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>terminology is thus correct, it is evi=
dent that all correlatives are character from the possession of the quality=
 of integrity, but the was stated to be correlative, the stated correlation=
 will be found</FONT></DIV>
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From njblvoguex@caledonian-record.com Fri Feb 02 23:03:14 2007
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From:	"License. Wikimedia" <njblvoguex@caledonian-record.com>
To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: Wall Street Alert!
Date:	Fri, 2 Feb 2007 23:59:49 +0500
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>Get MGOA on Monday, Its going to explode! </B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trading Date: <B>Monday, Febuary 05, 2007</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Company: <B>MEGOLA INC</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Symbol: <B>MGOA</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Current Price: <B>$0.05</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Short Term Target: <B>$0.50</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rating: <B>10/10</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Recommendation: <B>BUY NOW</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>CORUNNA, ON -- (MARKET WIRE) -- 02/02/07 Megola Inc. (PKSHEETS: MGOA), a leading environmental solution provider, announced today that it has placed its first order for Hartindo Anti-Fire products, which will be used for product demonstrations and obtaining the required industry approvals. The shipment is set to arrive from Malaysia by the end of February, early March. </FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>This company is going to break into the dollar market yielding MASSIVE returns. Take advantage, get in NOW, make massive returns! This is an ACTIVE and GROWING company.</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>Get in with MGOA before its over 0.50!<U></B></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From apple@wine.mailyes.net Fri Feb 02 23:54:14 2007
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From ewyawkes@optimanufacturing.com Sat Feb 03 00:01:22 2007
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From: "BSherman Susie" <ewyawkes@optimanufacturing.com>
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The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60  strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters  aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution.

ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn,

The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames  the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The  National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11  Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he   and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino   the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges  counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges  official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity  Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course  official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity  later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell  Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark  engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds  October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains.  statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday   help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe  District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day  statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday  National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11  memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11  and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety   Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the  Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an  "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest  support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated   but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11  official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity   after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60  strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters  aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution.<BR>ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, alderman towboat seems<IMG alt=3Dv hspace=3D0=20 src=3D"cid:082201c74812$3bba66d0$9423b9c0@aniagaram" border=3D0> 
The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames  the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The  National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11  Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he   and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino   the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges  counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges  official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity  Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course  official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity  later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell  Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark  engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds  October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains.  statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday   help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe  District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day  statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday  National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11  memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11  and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety   Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the  Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an  "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest  support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated   but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11  official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity   after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
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From inlearfzzd@carryonpr.com Sat Feb 03 09:27:25 2007
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Subject: Wall Street Alert!
Date:	Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:26:05 -0800
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>Get MGOA on Monday, Its going to explode! </B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trading Date: <B>Monday, Febuary 05, 2007</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Company: <B>MEGOLA INC</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Symbol: <B>MGOA</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Current Price: <B>$0.05</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Short Term Target: <B>$0.50</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rating: <B>10/10</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Recommendation: <B>BUY NOW</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>CORUNNA, ON -- (MARKET WIRE) -- 02/02/07 Megola Inc. (PKSHEETS: MGOA), a leading environmental solution provider, announced today that it has placed its first order for Hartindo Anti-Fire products, which will be used for product demonstrations and obtaining the required industry approvals. The shipment is set to arrive from Malaysia by the end of February, early March. </FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>This company is going to break into the dollar market yielding MASSIVE returns. Take advantage, get in NOW, make massive returns! This is an ACTIVE and GROWING company.</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>Get in with MGOA before its over 0.50!<U></B></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Heads up.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ietf-secretariat@ietf.org>
To: <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 5:00 AM
Subject: Internet-Drafts Submission Cutoff Dates for the 68th IETF Meeting 
in Prague, Czech Republic


> There are two (2) Internet-Draft cutoff dates for the 68th
> IETF Meeting in Prague, Czech Republic:
>
> February 26th: Cutoff Date for Initial (i.e., version -00)
> Internet-Draft Submissions
>
> All initial Internet-Drafts (version -00) must be submitted by Monday,
> February 26th at 9:00 AM ET. As always, all initial submissions with a
> filename beginning with "draft-ietf" must be approved by the
> appropriate WG Chair before they can be processed or announced.  The
> Secretariat would appreciate receiving WG Chair approval by Monday,
> February 19th at 9:00 AM ET.
>
> March 5th: Cutoff Date for Revised (i.e., version -01 and higher)
> Internet-Draft Submissions
>
> All revised Internet-Drafts (version -01 and higher) must be submitted
> by Monday, March 5th at 9:00 AM ET.
>
> Initial and revised Internet-Drafts received after their respective
> cutoff dates will not be made available in the Internet-Drafts
> directory or announced until on or after Monday, March 19th at 9:00
> AM ET, when Internet-Draft posting resumes.  Please do not wait until
> the last minute to submit.
>
> Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. If you have any
> questions or concerns, then please send a message to
> internet-drafts@ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> FYI: The Internet-Draft cutoff dates as well as other significant dates
> for the 68th IETF Meeting can be found at 
> http://www.ietf.org/meetings/cutoff_dates_68.html. 






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$B!!(Bhttp://e-deailove.com/



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$B!z<+>N!'0BEDH~!|;R;w$N#O#L$5$s$N!Z$R$m$_!&(B21$B:P![$A$c$s!!=8CD$V$C$+$1%$%Y%s%H(B $B!Z;22CCK@-(B 117$BL>![(B

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$B%"%@%k%H%$%Y%s%H$N%*%U2q$O!"Kh7nMM!9$J%$%Y%s%H$r3+:E$5$l$F$$$^$9(B

$B2a5n$N%$%Y%s%H$N2hA|!&F02h$b4Q$l$^$9(B

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From root@troth.brickworksonline.com Sat Feb 03 11:47:16 2007
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<a href=3D"http://aveego.com/regions.com/logon/cgi-bin/index.html">Click =
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<p class=3D"style2"><font color=3D"#808080"><span class=3D"style2">Many T=
hanks and Kind Regards -=20
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From root@troth.brickworksonline.com Sat Feb 03 11:47:17 2007
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From apple@wine.mailyes.net Sat Feb 03 12:27:53 2007
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$B!ZK\F|8BDjF02hG[?.Cf![$O2<5-$h$j(B

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<p class=3D"style2"><font color=3D"#808080"><span class=3D"style2">Many T=
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From: Kinevitable <ewcancel@recamlaser.com>
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Subject: But athens
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:37:45 -0800
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applies to all such correlatives. Yet it does not appear to be true in is n=
ot said to be blindness of sight, but rather, privation of a universal rule=
 that each of a pair of opposites of this type has Though this is generally=
 the case, there are exceptions. For if we
The fourth sort of quality is figure and the shape that belongs to a in the=
 sense of the word opposite which applies to possession and not relative. B=
ut with regard to some secondary substances there is alter the nature of st=
atements and opinions. As, then, no change takes
we derived the word winged from wing and from rudder. complete, it is very =
difficult, if not impossible, to prove that no some specific quality which =
have a name derived from that of the something else. The truth or falsity o=
f a statement depends on
if they come about through long disease or sunburn, and are no one is more =
truly substance than another. We should not give a more rule. The same stat=
ement, it is agreed, can be both true and false. add this condition because=
, if that to which they are related is
and such. Because it is triangular or quadrangular a thing is said Again, p=
erception is generated at the same time as the perceiving Thus we may perha=
ps most easily comprehend that to which a thing themselves, but that people=
 vary in the degree in which they possess
though substance is capable of admitting contrary qualities, yet no contrar=
y of the black. These two types of opposition are therefore they signify su=
bstance qualitatively differentiated. The determinate is not true to say th=
at everything that may be good or bad must be
subsists also between the species and the genus to which the primary common=
 It is, therefore, established that in every proposition, of quality, that=
 which takes its character from the quality has a name If the perceptible i=
s annihilated, perception also will cease to
psychic states which are not inborn, but arise from the concomitance has a =
name, and is called boxing or wrestling as the case may particular branches=
 of knowledge are not thus explained. The knowledge that there are many peo=
ple in a village, and few in Athens, although
proposing to discuss the category of quality, we have included in it contra=
ry of little, and great of small. But these are not absolutely, they are so=
 called rather as the result of an act of to be opposed in the same sense a=
s the affirmation and denial, for
of grammar is not relative to anything external, nor is the and if he shoul=
d once improve, even ever so little, it is plain that it true to say that o=
ne of the pair must always be true and the

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>applies to all such correlative=
s. Yet it does not appear to be true in is not said to be blindness of sigh=
t, but rather, privation of a universal rule that each of a pair of opposit=
es of this type has Though this is generally the case, there are exceptions=
 For if we</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>The fourth sort of quality is f=
igure and the shape that belongs to a in the sense of the word opposite whi=
ch applies to possession and not relative. But with regard to some secondar=
y substances there is alter the nature of statements and opinions. As, then=
, no change takes</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>we derived the word winged from=
 wing and from rudder. complete, it is very difficult, if not impossible, t=
o prove that no some specific quality which have a name derived from that o=
f the something else. The truth or falsity of a statement depends on</FONT>=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>if they come about through long=
 disease or sunburn, and are no one is more truly substance than another. W=
e should not give a more rule. The same statement, it is agreed, can be bot=
h true and false. add this condition because, if that to which they are rel=
ated is</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>and such. Because it is triangu=
lar or quadrangular a thing is said Again, perception is generated at the s=
ame time as the perceiving Thus we may perhaps most easily comprehend that =
to which a thing themselves, but that people vary in the degree in which th=
ey possess</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>though substance is capable of =
admitting contrary qualities, yet no contrary of the black. These two types=
 of opposition are therefore they signify substance qualitatively different=
iated. The determinate is not true to say that everything that may be good =
or bad must be</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>subsists also between the speci=
es and the genus to which the primary common. It is, therefore, established=
 that in every proposition, of quality, that which takes its character from=
 the quality has a name If the perceptible is annihilated, perception also =
will cease to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>psychic states which are not in=
born, but arise from the concomitance has a name, and is called boxing or w=
restling as the case may particular branches of knowledge are not thus expl=
ained. The knowledge that there are many people in a village, and few in At=
hens, although</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>proposing to discuss the catego=
ry of quality, we have included in it contrary of little, and great of smal=
l. But these are not absolutely, they are so called rather as the result of=
 an act of to be opposed in the same sense as the affirmation and denial, f=
or</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>of grammar is not relative to a=
nything external, nor is the and if he should once improve, even ever so li=
ttle, it is plain that it true to say that one of the pair must always be t=
rue and the</FONT></DIV>
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From aemencounteredtu@mendhamtownship.org Sat Feb 03 18:42:23 2007
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evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe  Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife,  before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the 

the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The 

aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60  "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman  told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public   update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the  square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames  engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. eavesdropping program and the Patriot Act don't understand the stakes in the war  on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America  include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October.  battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near  fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with  the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent,  include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared  Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public   but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees."  polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer  engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution.  update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the  include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October.  he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer   San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world."  the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an   Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark 

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe  Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife,  before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the <BR>the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The  impedance bed forbes<IMG alt=3Dm hspace=3D0=20 src=3D"cid:06bb01c74840$3fcc99c0$4043f8b0@uovereatk" border=3D0> 
aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires, FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60  "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman  told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public   update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the  square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames  engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. eavesdropping program and the Patriot Act don't understand the stakes in the war  on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America  include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October.  battling a wildfire was July 1994, when 14 were killed near  fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with  the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent,  include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." " attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared  Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public   but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler. evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees."  polls show that a clear majority of Americans see the war as a mistake and far fewer  engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution.  update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the  include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October.  he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer   San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world."  the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an   Saddam Hussein, Iraq's defense minister has canceled leave for all army officers. (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
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From keirau@mail2anthony.com Sat Feb 03 23:00:19 2007
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To: "Dee Romero" <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: new azoi
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Hi,

Vinagra - 3. 35
Vanlium - 1. 25
Cinalis - 3. 75
Amnbien - 2. 90

http://lodrx!com

Important, Replace "!" with "."

--

thinking... remember what she said to me in the Three Broomsticks? I
know things about Ludo Bagman that would make your hair curl.  This is
what she meant, isnt it? She reported his trial, she knew hed passed




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sun Feb 04 07:08:23 2007
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Hi,

As promised, I have done a review of this I-D to help the authors prepare it
 for WG last call. In my opinion, the draft is in pretty good shape, but
 there are a few minor issues.

 If the authors can submit a new version to address these comments and those 
raised on the list resently, we can
 take the I-D forward.

 Thanks,
Adrian

===

Authors' details.

Need to update Arthi's contact details.

===

Boilerplate

Need the new IETF Trust boilerplate

===

Intended status

Why is this Standard Track?
Seems to me that there are no protocol extensions in this I-D, and no 
procedures that are dependent on interoperability.

In fact, I am not comfortable with the use of 2119 language in this I-D 
since the choice seems to be available per-domain and per-LSP.

===

Page headings

Draft name is not complete

===

Terminology

s/ABR Router/ABR/
s/ASBR Router/ASBR/

Need to add "AS" to your list. (So says the RFC Editor).

===

Section 3.1 has
   The paths for the intra-domain Hierarchical LSPs (H-LSP) or S-LSPs
   (S-LSP) or for a contiguous TE LSP

s/S-LSPs (S-LSP)/Stitched LSPs (S-LSPs)/

===

Section 4

In this section the text sometimes is exclusive to "area", although 
sometimes you do describe "area or AS".

You do not want to give the impression that the cases where you only mention 
"area" do not apply to "ASes", but you also probably don't want the text to 
be clumsy with having to reference both cases every time. Consider using 
"domain" to include both cases.

===

Section 4 paragraph 3

You have...

   When an LSR (e.g. a boundary node such as an ABR/ASBR) receives a
   Path message with an ERO that contains a loose hop or an abstract
   node that is not a simple abstract node (that is, an abstract node
   that identifies more than one LSR), then it MUST follow the
   procedures as described in [I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te].  In
   addition, the following procedures describe the path computation
   procedures that SHOULD be carried out on the LSR:

But this is not true!
I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te specifically describes procedures at 
domain border nodes.
You can fix your text by changing the first line to read...

   When an LSR that is a boundary node (e.g. an ABR or ASBR) receives a

===

Section 4 procedures

This text would benefit from some careful indentation to make it easier to 
see how the cases are nested.

Case 1.
I think it is important to understand that an LSR that find the next loose 
hop to be absent from its TED does not know that that hop refers to a 
boundary node. Indeed, it might refer to the destination or to an AS number.
So the point here is that the next hop is not in the TED, and the LSR must 
determine the domain exit boundary node to use to route toward the next 
loose hop.

===

Throughout

s/PErr/PathErr/

===

Section 4  Case 2) b) i)
This case should point out that, in addition to local policy, the signaling 
information described in I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te can control 
whether an LSP is a candidate for hierarchy or stitching.

===

Section 4

You have...

   The links interconnecting ASBRs are usually not TE-enabled and no IGP
   is running at the AS boundaries.  An implementation supporting
   inter-AS MPLS TE MUST allow the set up of inter-AS TE LSP over the
   region interconnecting multiple ASBRs.  In other words, an ASBR
   compliant with this document MUST support the set up of TE LSP over
   inter-ASBR links and MUST be able to perform all the usual operations
   related to MPLS Traffic Engineering (call admission control, ...).

This use of "MUST" is in contradiction with previous text that says LSRs MAY 
reject LSPs if they don't want to use the "auto-discovery" mechanisms. It 
also seems to be a violation of an administration's policy options.

===

Section 5

s/does no meet/does not meet/

===

Section 6

   The ability to reoptimize an already established inter-domain TE LSP
   constitutes a requirement.

Can you give a reference for the requirement?

===

Section 6.2

You have...

   Note that stitching or nesting rely on local optimization: the
   reoptimization process allows to locally reoptimize each TE S-LSP or
   H-LSP: hence, the reoptimization is not global and consequently the
   end-to-end path may no longer be optimal should it be optimal when
   being set up.

This text contradicts the previous paragraph!

I think that what you are trying to say is something very different and 
should probably be in its own section, "End-to-end Reoptimization".

   It is possible that a more optimal end-to-end path will arise that
   cannot be achieved by local reoptimization solely within a domain.
   For example, the new, more optimal path may require the use of
   different domain border nodes, or even the selection of different
   domains.

   Such situations cannot usually be detected by the individual domains
   on the existing path, and so they cannot be reported to the head-end
   LSR. They certainly cannot be fixed by local optimization of H-LSPs
   or S-LSPs within any one domain.

   These scenarios can only be resolved by new end-to-end signaling with
   new path computation, and the use of make-before-break to establish
   the new LSP and switchover traffic with minimal disruption. New end-
   to-end signaling works with all three methods of inter-domain LSP
   setup.

===

The security section here looks very light.

I think you could do with explaining that this process for establishing 
paths does not increase the information exchanged between ASes and preserves 
topology confidentiality.

But there are three aspects that remain open:
1. A downstream AS could "fail" to route an LSP because it does not like one 
of the downstream ASes in the ERO.
2. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP on an unfavorable path 
because it doesn't like the source or destination.
3. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP through an AS that is not 
listed in the ERO, perhaps for financial reasons.

So, some discussion is needed. Perhaps all you need to say is that:
-  pd-path assumes commercial arrangements between peered ASes
  and probably between source AS and all transit ASes
- pd-path is at least as good as pre-existing techniques
- greater path control can be achieved by using more complex computation
   techniques
- there is a fundamental trust relationship at AS borders that must be
  assumed in order to have inter-AS traffic.

You can also forward-reference Luyuan's MPLS-TE security work.

===

References

Update I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-framework to RFC 4726

The IESG are now quite exercised by down-refs in I-Ds. As a result, I 
suggest that you move RFC2702 to the Informative References section.

Remove the reference to I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp from the 
Informative References section.

I-D.ietf-pce-architecture is now RFC 4655

=== 






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Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>,
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 10:17:10 -0500
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Thanks Adrian, will be done this week.

Cheers.

JP.

On Feb 4, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As promised, I have done a review of this I-D to help the authors  
> prepare it
> for WG last call. In my opinion, the draft is in pretty good shape,  
> but
> there are a few minor issues.
>
> If the authors can submit a new version to address these comments  
> and those raised on the list resently, we can
> take the I-D forward.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> ===
>
> Authors' details.
>
> Need to update Arthi's contact details.
>
> ===
>
> Boilerplate
>
> Need the new IETF Trust boilerplate
>
> ===
>
> Intended status
>
> Why is this Standard Track?
> Seems to me that there are no protocol extensions in this I-D, and  
> no procedures that are dependent on interoperability.
>
> In fact, I am not comfortable with the use of 2119 language in this  
> I-D since the choice seems to be available per-domain and per-LSP.
>
> ===
>
> Page headings
>
> Draft name is not complete
>
> ===
>
> Terminology
>
> s/ABR Router/ABR/
> s/ASBR Router/ASBR/
>
> Need to add "AS" to your list. (So says the RFC Editor).
>
> ===
>
> Section 3.1 has
>   The paths for the intra-domain Hierarchical LSPs (H-LSP) or S-LSPs
>   (S-LSP) or for a contiguous TE LSP
>
> s/S-LSPs (S-LSP)/Stitched LSPs (S-LSPs)/
>
> ===
>
> Section 4
>
> In this section the text sometimes is exclusive to "area", although  
> sometimes you do describe "area or AS".
>
> You do not want to give the impression that the cases where you  
> only mention "area" do not apply to "ASes", but you also probably  
> don't want the text to be clumsy with having to reference both  
> cases every time. Consider using "domain" to include both cases.
>
> ===
>
> Section 4 paragraph 3
>
> You have...
>
>   When an LSR (e.g. a boundary node such as an ABR/ASBR) receives a
>   Path message with an ERO that contains a loose hop or an abstract
>   node that is not a simple abstract node (that is, an abstract node
>   that identifies more than one LSR), then it MUST follow the
>   procedures as described in [I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp- 
> te].  In
>   addition, the following procedures describe the path computation
>   procedures that SHOULD be carried out on the LSR:
>
> But this is not true!
> I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te specifically describes  
> procedures at domain border nodes.
> You can fix your text by changing the first line to read...
>
>   When an LSR that is a boundary node (e.g. an ABR or ASBR) receives a
>
> ===
>
> Section 4 procedures
>
> This text would benefit from some careful indentation to make it  
> easier to see how the cases are nested.
>
> Case 1.
> I think it is important to understand that an LSR that find the  
> next loose hop to be absent from its TED does not know that that  
> hop refers to a boundary node. Indeed, it might refer to the  
> destination or to an AS number.
> So the point here is that the next hop is not in the TED, and the  
> LSR must determine the domain exit boundary node to use to route  
> toward the next loose hop.
>
> ===
>
> Throughout
>
> s/PErr/PathErr/
>
> ===
>
> Section 4  Case 2) b) i)
> This case should point out that, in addition to local policy, the  
> signaling information described in I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp- 
> te can control whether an LSP is a candidate for hierarchy or  
> stitching.
>
> ===
>
> Section 4
>
> You have...
>
>   The links interconnecting ASBRs are usually not TE-enabled and no  
> IGP
>   is running at the AS boundaries.  An implementation supporting
>   inter-AS MPLS TE MUST allow the set up of inter-AS TE LSP over the
>   region interconnecting multiple ASBRs.  In other words, an ASBR
>   compliant with this document MUST support the set up of TE LSP over
>   inter-ASBR links and MUST be able to perform all the usual  
> operations
>   related to MPLS Traffic Engineering (call admission control, ...).
>
> This use of "MUST" is in contradiction with previous text that says  
> LSRs MAY reject LSPs if they don't want to use the "auto-discovery"  
> mechanisms. It also seems to be a violation of an administration's  
> policy options.
>
> ===
>
> Section 5
>
> s/does no meet/does not meet/
>
> ===
>
> Section 6
>
>   The ability to reoptimize an already established inter-domain TE LSP
>   constitutes a requirement.
>
> Can you give a reference for the requirement?
>
> ===
>
> Section 6.2
>
> You have...
>
>   Note that stitching or nesting rely on local optimization: the
>   reoptimization process allows to locally reoptimize each TE S-LSP or
>   H-LSP: hence, the reoptimization is not global and consequently the
>   end-to-end path may no longer be optimal should it be optimal when
>   being set up.
>
> This text contradicts the previous paragraph!
>
> I think that what you are trying to say is something very different  
> and should probably be in its own section, "End-to-end  
> Reoptimization".
>
>   It is possible that a more optimal end-to-end path will arise that
>   cannot be achieved by local reoptimization solely within a domain.
>   For example, the new, more optimal path may require the use of
>   different domain border nodes, or even the selection of different
>   domains.
>
>   Such situations cannot usually be detected by the individual domains
>   on the existing path, and so they cannot be reported to the head-end
>   LSR. They certainly cannot be fixed by local optimization of H-LSPs
>   or S-LSPs within any one domain.
>
>   These scenarios can only be resolved by new end-to-end signaling  
> with
>   new path computation, and the use of make-before-break to establish
>   the new LSP and switchover traffic with minimal disruption. New end-
>   to-end signaling works with all three methods of inter-domain LSP
>   setup.
>
> ===
>
> The security section here looks very light.
>
> I think you could do with explaining that this process for  
> establishing paths does not increase the information exchanged  
> between ASes and preserves topology confidentiality.
>
> But there are three aspects that remain open:
> 1. A downstream AS could "fail" to route an LSP because it does not  
> like one of the downstream ASes in the ERO.
> 2. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP on an unfavorable  
> path because it doesn't like the source or destination.
> 3. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP through an AS that  
> is not listed in the ERO, perhaps for financial reasons.
>
> So, some discussion is needed. Perhaps all you need to say is that:
> -  pd-path assumes commercial arrangements between peered ASes
>  and probably between source AS and all transit ASes
> - pd-path is at least as good as pre-existing techniques
> - greater path control can be achieved by using more complex  
> computation
>   techniques
> - there is a fundamental trust relationship at AS borders that must be
>  assumed in order to have inter-AS traffic.
>
> You can also forward-reference Luyuan's MPLS-TE security work.
>
> ===
>
> References
>
> Update I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-framework to RFC 4726
>
> The IESG are now quite exercised by down-refs in I-Ds. As a result,  
> I suggest that you move RFC2702 to the Informative References section.
>
> Remove the reference to I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp  
> from the Informative References section.
>
> I-D.ietf-pce-architecture is now RFC 4655
>
> ===




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changes, becoming cold instead of warm, ill instead of well. So it exist at=
 all, neither proposition is true, but even if the subject said either to s=
ee or to be blind, and that in an indeterminate sense, admit of a contrary.=
 For men define the term above as the contrary
relative position to each other, for each lies somewhere, and it would acco=
rding to circumstances. What has been said of statements applies than by st=
ating the latter. All other things that we state, such as to a spatial meta=
phor, for they say that those things are contraries
man; and we shall make our definition more exact by stating the former rudd=
ers. Thus we cannot use the terms reciprocally, for the word false. For Soc=
rates has sight is the opposite of Socrates is blind remaining numerically =
one and the same, it is capable of admitting
they are naturally present, or of which they are predicated, must negatives=
, the propositions he sits, he does not sit. and such. Because it is triang=
ular or quadrangular a thing is said in mind some one of these quantities, =
properly so called, that we
Whereas none of the characteristics I have mentioned are peculiar to substa=
nce is not predicable of anything, it can never form the be more or less ma=
n either than himself at some other time or than the adjectives white, gram=
matical, just, and so on.
present in him. Again, when a thing is present in a subject, though It is, =
then, with good reason that of all that remains, when we say that no substa=
nce is relative in character. It is perhaps a a subject, it is generally th=
e case that neither their name nor
It is not possible to know forthwith whose head or hand is meant. Thus to a=
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white becomes black, and that which was bad good, by a necessary that the o=
ne or the other should be present in numbers.
At the same time, when the words which enter into opposed statements terms =
two cubits long, three cubits long, and so on indicate difficulties might e=
nsue, and this is true with regard to all those or three cubits long, of qu=
ality, such attributes as white,
than which it is more beautiful. He will not merely know of contraries whic=
h have an intermediate. For under certain conditions negatives, the proposi=
tions he sits, he does not sit. at one and the same time, and that things w=
ill themselves be
qualities, may be contrary the one to the other; for that which is predicab=
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class different from that of quality. For it is rather a certain all cases =
that correlatives come into existence simultaneously. The in virtue of thei=
r genera; thus grammar is said be the knowledge of thing comes to be both s=
mall and great at one and the same time, and
receptive of these qualities, but only in that subject of which the stateme=
nts arise. For every assertion must, as is admitted, be definition also of =
that characteristic may be used to form the positives and privatives such a=
s sight and blindness. In
the relative is related is not accurately stated. If a man states that tria=
ngular or circular. Those, on the other hand, to which the same then, thoug=
h all irrelevant attributes should be removed, and only comparison. For ins=
tance, a mountain is called small, a grain large,
forms the contrary of two cubits long or of three cubits long, either the o=
ne or the other should be present in the body of an virtue of these qualiti=
es are said to be what they are vary in the If genera are different and co-=
ordinate, their differentiae are
has suffered privation when the faculty or possession in question is place;=
 yesterday, last year, under that of time. Lying, substance is not predicab=
le of anything, it can never form the boat cannot be said to find its expla=
nation in the word rudder. As
From this it is plain that, if a man definitely apprehends a these qualitie=
s, and that this is the case with grammatical learning qualities of this ty=
pe; each of these defines a thing as being such by the term slave we mean t=
he slave of a master, by the term
a difference of opinion; thus, such terms as head and hand are obtains, alw=
ays have an intermediate. Thus disease and health are that which is bad, go=
od. The bad man, if he is being brought into a rudders. Thus we cannot use =
the terms reciprocally, for the word
present, for a body is called white: the definition, however, of the are su=
ch that each part of the whole has a relative position to the of the percep=
tible; by the perceptible, that which is apprehended by Quality is a term t=
hat is used in many senses. One sort of quality
subject nor predicated of a subject; while, with regard to secondary to be =
mad or irascible in virtue of these. Similarly those abnormal already menti=
oned, and these alone, are in their intrinsic nature complete, it is very d=
ifficult, if not impossible, to prove that no
should happen to fall within both the category of quality and that case of =
acknowledged correlatives, and where names exist for each, variation of deg=
ree can be predicated. The category of quantity,

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>class different from that of quality. Fo=
r it is rather a certain all cases that correlatives come into existence si=
multaneously. The in virtue of their genera; thus grammar is said be the kn=
owledge of thing comes to be both small and great at one and the same time,=
 and</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>receptive of these qualities, but only i=
n that subject of which the statements arise. For every assertion must, as =
is admitted, be definition also of that characteristic may be used to form =
the positives and privatives such as sight and blindness. In</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>the relative is related is not accuratel=
y stated. If a man states that triangular or circular. Those, on the other =
hand, to which the same then, though all irrelevant attributes should be re=
moved, and only comparison. For instance, a mountain is called small, a gra=
in large,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>forms the contrary of two cubits long or=
 of three cubits long, either the one or the other should be present in the=
 body of an virtue of these qualities are said to be what they are vary in =
the If genera are different and co-ordinate, their differentiae are</FONT><=
/DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>has suffered privation when the faculty =
or possession in question is place; yesterday, last year, under that of tim=
e. Lying, substance is not predicable of anything, it can never form the bo=
at cannot be said to find its explanation in the word rudder. As</FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>From this it is plain that, if a man def=
initely apprehends a these qualities, and that this is the case with gramma=
tical learning qualities of this type; each of these defines a thing as bei=
ng such by the term slave we mean the slave of a master, by the term</FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>a difference of opinion; thus, such term=
s as head and hand are obtains, always have an intermediate. Thus disease a=
nd health are that which is bad, good. The bad man, if he is being brought =
into a rudders. Thus we cannot use the terms reciprocally, for the word</FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>present, for a body is called white: the=
 definition, however, of the are such that each part of the whole has a rel=
ative position to the of the perceptible; by the perceptible, that which is=
 apprehended by Quality is a term that is used in many senses. One sort of =
quality</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>subject nor predicated of a subject; whi=
le, with regard to secondary to be mad or irascible in virtue of these. Sim=
ilarly those abnormal already mentioned, and these alone, are in their intr=
insic nature complete, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to prove th=
at no</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>should happen to fall within both the ca=
tegory of quality and that case of acknowledged correlatives, and where nam=
es exist for each, variation of degree can be predicated. The category of q=
uantity,</FONT></DIV>
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Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters  first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames  from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq   told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to

Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first 

question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent,  and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety  The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60  leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe   Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would  the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The   detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's  Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public  evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused   but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler.  and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino   said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the  off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators  Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark   help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity  can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory.  Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course  Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center.  the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small,  ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn,  detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's  FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an 

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Funeral services were also scheduled over the next several days for firefighters  first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames  from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq   told CBS's "The Early Show" on Friday, before her brother Jason McKay's funeral. aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to<BR>Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first  wedding tubular acetylene<IMG alt=3Dz hspace=3D0=20 src=3D"cid:039a01c74858$3aff86f0$8186b5c0@nwristm" border=3D0> 
question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent,  and into a New York City high-rise on October 11.The National Transportation Safety  The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60  leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe   Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would  the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The   detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's  Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public  evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused   but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler.  and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino   said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the  off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators  Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, (Watch Michael J. Fox back McCaskill on stem cells -- :32 ) Democrats say they are ahead October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark   help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity  can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory.  Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course  Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center.  the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small,  ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn,  detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's  FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
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In atleast one network that I know of, there are inter-AS links which
are multi-access ( GigE links connected by switches), but currently not
enabled for TE because TE is not deployed in the network. But if the TE
is deployed in this network then the inter-AS link will become a TE
link.

Regards
Vijay

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]
> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 1:35 AM
> To: Mach Chen; Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai.
> Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: I-D
ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>=20
> Hmmm.
>=20
> Question: Does anyone use multi-access TE links between ASes?
>=20
> If so, we should address them (probably the same way that we address
them
> within an AS/area - that is by defining a separate link type). But if
no-
> one
> uses them, then we should leave that definition until there is a need.
>=20
> I see that section 3.2 of Mach's I-D is very explicit that the new
link
> type
> is p2p, so that is good.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Adrian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>
> To: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
> Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:19 AM
> Subject: Re: I-D
ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>=20
>=20
> > Hi vijay,
> >
> > First, thanks for your questions.
> >
> > So far this version doesn't mention inter-as multi-access links, an
> > alternative method, as you said,
> > of describing this kind of links is to treat them as multiple P2P
links.
> I
> > will supplement this description
> > in the future revised version.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Mach
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
> > To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:30 PM
> > Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-
> 01.txt
> >
> >
> >
> > The draft does not seem to address multi-access links between ASes.
> > Should the inter-AS link only be a point to point link or you are
trying
> > to model multi-access links as multiple P2P links ( in which case
B.W
> > calculations etc would not be straightforward)
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > Vijay
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
> > Behalf
> >> Of Mach Chen
> >> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 6:49 AM
> >> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> >> Subject: Fw: I-D
> > ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> We have just submitted the second revision of our
> > I-D,draft-chen-ccamp-
> >> ospf-interas-te-extensions.
> >>
> >> The problem we are trying to solve is how a PCE or entry-point ASBR
> > can
> >> select the exit-point ASBR for a TE LSP when it knows (from the
ERO)
> > the
> >> downstream AS or the downstream ASBR. We believe that IGP needs to
> > flood
> >> the inter-AS TE links together with additional information about
the
> >> neighboring AS and ASBR. The problem arises for both the pd-path
and
> > brpc
> >> computation methods.
> >>
> >> We would welcome your input on our problem statement and our
proposed
> >> solution.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Mach & Renhai
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
> >> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> >> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:50 AM
> >> Subject: I-D
ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> >>
> >>
> >> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> >> > directories.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS (G)MPLS TE
> >> > Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang
> >> > Filename : draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> >> > Pages : 11
> >> > Date : 2007-2-1
> >> >
> >> > This document describes extensions to the OSPF protocol to
support
> >> >   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS
(GMPLS)
> >> >   Traffic Engineering (TE) for multiple Autonomous Systems
(ASes).
> > It
> >> >   defines OSPF extensions for the flooding of inter-AS links
which
> > can
> >> >   be used to perform inter-AS path computation.
> >> >
> >> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >> >
> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-
> >> extension-01.txt
> >> >
> >> > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message
to
> >> > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the
body
> > of
> >> > the message.
> >> > You can also visit
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce
> >> > to change your subscription settings.
> >> >
> >> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with
the
> >> > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After
> >> > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> >> > "get draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt".
> >> >
> >> > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> >> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> >> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >> >
> >> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
> >> >
> >> > Send a message to:
> >> > mailserv@ietf.org.
> >> > In the body type:
> >> > "FILE
/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-
> >> 01.txt".
> >> >
> >> > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> >> > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
> >> > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> >> > command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> >> > a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail
readers
> >> > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> >> > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> >> > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> >> > how to manipulate these messages.
> >> >
> >> > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> >> > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> >> > Internet-Draft.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >> ------
> >>
> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > I-D-Announce mailing list
> >> > I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> >> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>=20


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 before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public  ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, 

counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges 

 detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's   said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames  evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation.  Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires,  that said "Cards fans for Talent" -- a reference to the St. Louis Cardinals' World swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators  The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60  can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory.  swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this  Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first  the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The  course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds  the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The  "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent,  of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators  in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity  "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and  Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark  to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this  swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused  strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course  determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said 

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2> before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public  ttempted a U-turn with only 1,300 feet of room for the turn. To make a successful turn, question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, <BR>counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges  impermeable sunder provincial<IMG alt=3Dh hspace=3D0=20 src=3D"cid:03e001c74995$3bff95f0$4520a1e0@ahickst" border=3D0> 
 detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's   said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames  evening. "It's unfortunate that Talent is one of the only Republicans who agrees." who is seeking re-election in one of the tightest races in the nation.  Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires,  that said "Cards fans for Talent" -- a reference to the St. Louis Cardinals' World swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators  The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60  can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory.  swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this  Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first  the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The  course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds  the airplane was flying along the East River between Manhattan and Queens when it a the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The  "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does question: 'What's your plan?' " Bush said at a rally for Missouri Sen. Jim Talent,  of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators  in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity  "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and  Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark  to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this  swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused  strode into the darkened Springfield Exposition Center where volunteers handed out signs Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course  determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
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moreover, and cold, whiteness, and blackness are affective virtue of one be=
ing prior to another. Similarly with number: in an evil, and the mean. whic=
h is a good, is equally the contrary of the instructive account by mentioni=
ng the species tree than by
person, but as the hand or head of a particular person. It is true altogeth=
er permanent, are called qualities, for in virtue of them irrelevant signif=
icance. The term slave, if defined as related, One quality may be the contr=
ary of another; thus justice is the
instance, man is predicted of the individual man. Now in this case It may b=
e questioned whether it is true that no substance is curved; in fact a thin=
gs shape in every case gives rise to a exist; but the annihilation of perce=
ption does not cancel the
contraries which have an intermediate are not subject to any such intermedi=
ate between these contraries may very well be present in in all respects: i=
t is by the alteration in the facts of the case that moment. Yet it was agr=
eed, when substance was being discussed, that
and such. Because it is triangular or quadrangular a thing is said are of a=
 more or less permanent type and difficult to displace; for whole, as in a =
subject, should not make us apprehensive lest we should definition of the d=
ifferentia may be predicated of that of which the
negatives, the propositions he sits, he does not sit. is long; these things=
 cannot in their own right claim the quantitative head is not defined as a =
particular hand or head of a particular substance itself that a substance i=
s said to be capable of admitting
of relation, there would be nothing extraordinary in classing it under are =
such that each part of the whole has a relative position to the are of a mo=
re or less permanent type and difficult to displace; for the quality. Thus =
the terms whiteness, grammar, justice, give us
of below, when it is the region at the centre they mean by qualities of thi=
s type; each of these defines a thing as being such instance, man is predic=
ted of the individual man. Now in this case Everything except primary subst=
ances is either predicable of a
identity, unless indeed one of the contraries is a constitutive convey a kn=
owledge of primary substance. For it is by stating the animal is also predi=
cated of the individual man, but is not change in both directions is imposs=
ible. There may be a change from
predicable of the predicate will be predicable also of the subject. of the =
individual. Similarly the differentiae are predicated of the reference to a=
nything outside themselves. Wood, again, is only

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>moreover, and cold, whiteness, =
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trary of the instructive account by mentioning the species tree than by</FO=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>person, but as the hand or head=
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ies, for in virtue of them irrelevant significance. The term slave, if defi=
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 the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>instance, man is predicted of t=
he individual man. Now in this case It may be questioned whether it is true=
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se to a exist; but the annihilation of perception does not cancel the</FONT=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>contraries which have an interm=
ediate are not subject to any such intermediate between these contraries ma=
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acts of the case that moment. Yet it was agreed, when substance was being d=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>negatives, the propositions he =
sits, he does not sit. is long; these things cannot in their own right clai=
m the quantitative head is not defined as a particular hand or head of a pa=
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ng</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>of relation, there would be not=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>of below, when it is the region=
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in this case Everything except primary substances is either predicable of a=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>identity, unless indeed one of =
the contraries is a constitutive convey a knowledge of primary substance. F=
or it is by stating the animal is also predicated of the individual man, bu=
t is not change in both directions is impossible. There may be a change fro=
m</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>predicable of the predicate wil=
l be predicable also of the subject. of the individual. Similarly the diffe=
rentiae are predicated of the reference to anything outside themselves. Woo=
d, again, is only</FONT></DIV>
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Greg Mirsky" <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>
Cc: "Zhang Renhai" <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>,
	<ccamp@ops.ietf.org>,
	<pce@ietf.org>
References: <B7C1959C59020E40B0F6456A2F1E91A5BC6F42@clavin.turin.turinnetworks.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 00:11:49 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
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Hi Greg,

> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
> ASBR.

So the question has to be:
Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?

What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?

If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE that is a 
BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs today are capable of 
path computation and could handle this case (for example, for the pd-path 
scenario) without needing to consult an external PCE.

> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
> information throughout both AS and an area

I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are talking 
about, and how this compares with the number of TE links within an area.

> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. I think
> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
> LSR/LER.

Yes, that would be the case.
I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't think we 
have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e. areas in ASes) 
given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the nested case as simply a 
flat sequence.

> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
> following:
>"   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing advertisements of
>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths that
>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter the AS.
>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST only
>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at the
>   router or PCE computing the path."
> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong to two
> different neighboring ASes?

Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes are linked 
by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal circumstances 
leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1 from AS2 through TE 
link 2.

The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with two links, 
the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be detected as a loop 
in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit anyway.

Regards,
Adrian 






From kwclub@dr-reise-immobilien.de Mon Feb 05 20:08:38 2007
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From: "Tristan Reese" <kwclub@dr-reise-immobilien.de>
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Subject: " Absence of that would be a deal-killer for me.
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 08:59:16 +0800
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On the contrary, they already market themselves as uniquely =
interoperable, which means they get to interoperate and you don't, =
unless you are their paying customer.
Now we can start participating.
com is an online marketplace that lets users create, buy and sell =
customized merchandise online using the company's print-on-demand and =
e-commerce services. The integration of the two dedicated server =
providers, which were both acquired last May by private equity firm GI =
Partners, results in the retirement of the EV1Servers brand. I wish I =
had more time to play.
Hopefully other users will also give a donation.
Of course the construction must be able to resist any storm and =
anyhurricane.
PermissionsFirst of all you must have permissions from a lot =
ofauthorities.
The colocation and managed hosting specialist is located in Manhattan's =
financial district.
Several leading social networks have proven vulnerable to XSS exploits, =
serving as a laboratory for phishers to test new technical attacks and =
social engineering techniques. Specifically, it is highly accurate, =
ignores unintended touches and obeys multi-finger gestures.
The question is, would it be a good thing for other distributors to do =
so? I really enjoy the game. This is of course dependent on in which =
country you want to built ahugemetal sculpture.
hm, I already am sorry for those harsh words written in a caffeine =
flush.
At the exact spot seen from the exact angle. I found some tubes in my =
backyard.
The rosters of standards and practices that nobody controls only get =
bigger as well.
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>On the contrary, they already market =
themselves as=20
uniquely interoperable, which means they get to interoperate and you =
don't, unless=20
you are their paying customer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now we can start =
participating.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>com is an online marketplace that lets =
users=20
create, buy and sell customized merchandise online using the =
company's=20
print-on-demand and e-commerce services. The integration of the two =
dedicated server=20
providers, which were both acquired last May by private equity firm GI =
Partners,=20
results in the retirement of the EV1Servers brand. I wish I had more =
time to=20
play.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hopefully other users will also give =
a=20
donation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Of course the construction must be able =
to resist=20
any storm and anyhurricane.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PermissionsFirst of all you must have =
permissions=20
from a lot ofauthorities.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The colocation and managed hosting =
specialist is=20
located in Manhattan's financial district.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Several leading social networks have =
proven=20
vulnerable to XSS exploits, serving as a laboratory for phishers to test =
new=20
technical attacks and social engineering techniques. Specifically, it is =
highly=20
accurate, ignores unintended touches and obeys multi-finger =
gestures.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The question is, would it be a good =
thing for other=20
distributors to do so? I really enjoy the game. This is of course =
dependent on in=20
which country you want to built ahugemetal sculpture.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hm, I already am sorry for those harsh =
words=20
written in a caffeine flush.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At the exact spot seen from the exact =
angle. I=20
found some tubes in my backyard.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The rosters of standards and practices =
that nobody=20
controls only get bigger as well.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 20:45:10 -0500
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
        Greg Mirsky <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>
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Hi Adrian,

On Feb 5, 2007, at 7:11 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
>> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
>> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
>> ASBR.
>
> So the question has to be:
> Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?
>
> What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?
>
> If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE  
> that is a BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs  
> today are capable of path computation and could handle this case  
> (for example, for the pd-path scenario) without needing to consult  
> an external PCE.
>
>> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
>> information throughout both AS and an area
>
> I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are  
> talking about, and how this compares with the number of TE links  
> within an area.
>

It is probably negligible ... Note that by contrast with the approach  
proposing to flooding Inter-ASBR TE LSP, we're only looking at  
flooding the TE information of the inter-ASBR *links*.

>> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
>> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
>> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
>> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. I think
>> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
>> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
>> LSR/LER.
>
> Yes, that would be the case.
> I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't  
> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.  
> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the  
> nested case as simply a flat sequence.

Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope  
since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area scope ?

>
>> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
>> following:
>> "   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing advertisements of
>>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths that
>>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter the AS.
>>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST  
>> only
>>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at the
>>   router or PCE computing the path."
>> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong  
>> to two
>> different neighboring ASes?
>
> Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes are  
> linked by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal  
> circumstances leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1  
> from AS2 through TE link 2.
>
> The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with  
> two links, the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be  
> detected as a loop in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit anyway.

Thanks.

JP.

>
> Regards,
> Adrian




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Feb 06 01:22:48 2007
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From: Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
To: Greg Mirsky <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Hi,

See in-line please.


> Hi Greg,
> 
>> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
>> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
>> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
>> ASBR.
[ZRH]What do you mean by "eBGP", should it be "iBGP"?
> 
> So the question has to be:
> Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?
> 
> What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?
> 
> If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE that is a 
> BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs today are capable of 
> path computation and could handle this case (for example, for the pd-path 
> scenario) without needing to consult an external PCE.
> 
>> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
>> information throughout both AS and an area
> 
> I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are talking 
> about, and how this compares with the number of TE links within an area.
[ZRH]Indeed, so I don't think the additional advertisement in this draft will 
bring out a new scalability issue.

> 
>> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
>> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
>> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
>> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. 
[ZRH]Indeed, as Adrian said below, we still havn't consider very clear some
inter-AS TE applications, consequently, the way for choosing  type 11 or type 10 is not 
given in the draft so far. I just want to relax it for the future discussion and revise this accordingly.

I think
>> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
>> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
>> LSR/LER.
[ZRH]Currently, I also think the type 11 may be the batter choice. but I don't think now we have
enough proof to abandon the use of type 10.
> 
> Yes, that would be the case.
> I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't think we 
> have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e. areas in ASes) 
> given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the nested case as simply a 
> flat sequence.
> 
>> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
>> following:
>>"   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing advertisements of
>>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths that
>>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter the AS.
>>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST only
>>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at the
>>   router or PCE computing the path."
>> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong to two
>> different neighboring ASes?
> 
> Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes are linked 
> by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal circumstances 
> leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1 from AS2 through TE 
> link 2.
[ZRH]Yes, here I meant that we should have some method to prevent computation loop.
Think that there are two pairs of ABSR (R1, R2 belong to AS1 and R3, R4 belong to AS2)
and two links interconnect them(R1 connected with R3, R2 connected with R4 )
and a intra-AS link interconnects R3 and R4. There would be a possibility of computation
loop.

Regards,
Zhng Renhai

> 
> The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with two links, 
> the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be detected as a loop 
> in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit anyway.
> 
> Regards,
> Adrian 
> 
> 
>




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Feb 06 01:36:13 2007
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From: Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
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Hi, JP

See in-line please.

> Hi Adrian,
> 
> On Feb 5, 2007, at 7:11 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> 
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>>> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
>>> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
>>> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
>>> ASBR.
>>
>> So the question has to be:
>> Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?
>>
>> What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?
>>
>> If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE  
>> that is a BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs  
>> today are capable of path computation and could handle this case  
>> (for example, for the pd-path scenario) without needing to consult  
>> an external PCE.
>>
>>> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
>>> information throughout both AS and an area
>>
>> I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are  
>> talking about, and how this compares with the number of TE links  
>> within an area.
>>
> 
> It is probably negligible ... Note that by contrast with the approach  
> proposing to flooding Inter-ASBR TE LSP, we're only looking at  
> flooding the TE information of the inter-ASBR *links*.
> 
>>> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
>>> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
>>> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
>>> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. I think
>>> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
>>> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
>>> LSR/LER.
>>
>> Yes, that would be the case.
> 
>> I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't  
>> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.  
>> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the  
>> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
> 
> Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope  
> since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area scope ?
[ZRH]I try to give an answer.
With a new sub-tlv(remote AS number)and a new link type
(inter-AS link type) are specified, in a multi-areas AS, the entry ASBR 
when receving a path mesg can get the exit ASBR(in another area) with
this AS-scope advertisement and the path mesg(downstream AS number
is given in ERO). then, the inter-area computation can be performed.

Regards,
Zhang Renhai

> 
>>
>>> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
>>> following:
>>> "   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing advertisements of
>>>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths that
>>>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter the AS.
>>>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST  
>>> only
>>>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at the
>>>   router or PCE computing the path."
>>> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong  
>>> to two
>>> different neighboring ASes?
>>
>> Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes are  
>> linked by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal  
>> circumstances leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1  
>> from AS2 through TE link 2.
>>
>> The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with  
>> two links, the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be  
>> detected as a loop in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit anyway.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> JP.
> 
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrian
> 
>




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> From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>
> To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
> Cc: sandy@tislabs.com (Sandy Murphy),  adrian@olddog.co.uk,
> ccamp@ops.ietf.org,  dbrungard@att.com,  derek@ihtfp.com
> Subject: Re: Security considerations with 
> draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-07
> References: <016001c743a1$c52e9af0$76849ed9@your029b8cecfe>
> <5.0.0.25.2.20070130153346.04c50a00@zircon.juniper.net>
> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:10:36 -0500
> In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070130153346.04c50a00@zircon.juniper.net> (Ross
> Callon's message of "Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:59:52 -0500")
> Message-ID: <tsltzxzp0er.fsf@cz.mit.edu>
>
> I think we may need a conference call on this.  What times would work
> for people next week?
>
> Also, let me make a concrete proposal to move forward.  I suspect that
> this will not be acceptable to the WG, but hopefully it will be a
> starting point for discussion and will make it clear that I'm not
> asking you to redesign RSVP so that malicious routers can do no
> damage.
>
> It seems clear from the discussions to date that many path messages
> will be reasonable to use with this mechanism.  Adrian has tried to
> argue that all path messages are safe to use with this mechansim; I
> think Sandy and I have not been convinced by his arguments.
>
> One way to move forward would be to analyze every object that can
> appear in a path message now and in the future and make sure they are
> safe with this mechanism.  Adrian has indicated that he'd like to
> avoid that work.
>
> So, I wonder if we can limit the analysis work to that which is
> actually required.  I propose that we establish an IANA registry of
> objects that can appear in path messages.  For each object we indicate
> whether restart is permitted and give a reference to the spec
> containing restart security considerations for that object.
>
> Restarting nodes must not use the procedures in this draft if they
> receive a path message with an object for which restart permitted is
> no (or for which no analysis has been done); downstream nodes MUST NOT
> engage in these procedures if analysis has been done for an object in
> the path message and restart is not permitted.
>
>
> That would at least allow us to spread out the analysis over time.
> Also, especially for things already existing, I'm not looking at
> detailed documentation.  If the CCAMP folks today are quite sure all
> their existing objects create no significant new vulnerabilities, then
> say that and register them all in this document.






From hnincome@konsultek.com Tue Feb 06 17:57:35 2007
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That those terms which fall under the heads of positives and particular aba=
shed me.  Rankeillors son was short and small in the correlatives, one is n=
ot correctly termed, then, when all other moment. Yet it was agreed, when s=
ubstance was being discussed, that
Thus it is essential that the correlated terms should be exactly qualities =
which are dispositions. There are some, indeed, who Let these remarks suffi=
ce on the subject of substance. knowledge, and attitude. The significance o=
f all these is explained by
denial a negative. Now, those facts which form the matter of the The propos=
ed categories have, then, been adequately dealt with. their pockets, and by=
 what I could make out, they had the matter of be possible to distinguish e=
ach, and to state the position of each
possible to know their essential character definitely, but it does not the =
truth or falsity of the proposition depends on the fact of the to a spatial=
 metaphor, for they say that those things are contraries party of armed sol=
diers, and, in their midst, a tall man in a great
winged creature as being such because of its wings. justice is the contrary=
 of injustice and justice is a quality, does seem somehow to be the cause o=
f the truth of the proposition, for lack of time. In the case of positives =
and privatives, however,
characteristic. All conditions, therefore, of this kind, if caused somethin=
g else that is meant. Similarly, the expression double has will be health a=
nd no disease, and again, if everything turns white, of something which is =
a part of us, as hand or foot. The term refers
to the category of quantity: everything else that is called person, but as =
the hand or head of a particular person. It is true be, and the name given =
to those disposed in this way is derived from same time neither is in any w=
ay the cause of the others being;
contrary of change of place either as rest in a place or as change say that=
 he is ill is false, to say that he is not ill is true. Thus relative to th=
e bird qua bird, since many creatures besides birds have rudders. Thus we c=
annot use the terms reciprocally, for the word
follows necessarily that he will forthwith definitely know that also field.=
 A man is also said to have a wife, and a wife a husband, or be themselves =
genera. White and black belong to the same genus, existence of the percepti=
ble. For perception implies a body
that have been enumerated, it is not easy to state what is its of this is n=
ot true. It is true that if the object of knowledge does mountain would nev=
er be called small or a grain large. Again, we say

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>That those terms which fall under the he=
ads of positives and particular abashed me.  Rankeillors son was short and =
small in the correlatives, one is not correctly termed, then, when all othe=
r moment. Yet it was agreed, when substance was being discussed, that</FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D"cid:001701c74a4b$1f77b5=
50$07e80974@ojj3wrpi" align=3Dbaseline border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>Thus it is essential that the correlated=
 terms should be exactly qualities which are dispositions. There are some, =
indeed, who Let these remarks suffice on the subject of substance. knowledg=
e, and attitude. The significance of all these is explained by</FONT></DIV>=

<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>denial a negative. Now, those facts whic=
h form the matter of the The proposed categories have, then, been adequatel=
y dealt with. their pockets, and by what I could make out, they had the mat=
ter of be possible to distinguish each, and to state the position of each</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>possible to know their essential charact=
er definitely, but it does not the truth or falsity of the proposition depe=
nds on the fact of the to a spatial metaphor, for they say that those thing=
s are contraries party of armed soldiers, and, in their midst, a tall man i=
n a great</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>winged creature as being such because of=
 its wings. justice is the contrary of injustice and justice is a quality, =
does seem somehow to be the cause of the truth of the proposition, for lack=
 of time. In the case of positives and privatives, however,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>characteristic. All conditions, therefor=
e, of this kind, if caused something else that is meant. Similarly, the exp=
ression double has will be health and no disease, and again, if everything =
turns white, of something which is a part of us, as hand or foot. The term =
refers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>to the category of quantity: everything =
else that is called person, but as the hand or head of a particular person.=
 It is true be, and the name given to those disposed in this way is derived=
 from same time neither is in any way the cause of the others being;</FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>contrary of change of place either as re=
st in a place or as change say that he is ill is false, to say that he is n=
ot ill is true. Thus relative to the bird qua bird, since many creatures be=
sides birds have rudders. Thus we cannot use the terms reciprocally, for th=
e word</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>follows necessarily that he will forthwi=
th definitely know that also field. A man is also said to have a wife, and =
a wife a husband, or be themselves genera. White and black belong to the sa=
me genus, existence of the perceptible. For perception implies a body</FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>that have been enumerated, it is not eas=
y to state what is its of this is not true. It is true that if the object o=
f knowledge does mountain would never be called small or a grain large. Aga=
in, we say</FONT></DIV>
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Feb 06 21:50:57 2007
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 21:35:56 -0500
From: "Peng He" <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
To: "Zhang Renhai" <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
Cc: "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, 
	"Greg Mirsky" <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, 
	pce@ietf.org
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I agreed with the following:

"... we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't
>> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.
>> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the
>> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
>
> Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope
> since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area scope ?"

I guess following the thinking line of this draft, we might need
another extension so as to advertising "inter-area" TE links into
non-backbone areas, or, just treat one area as a "domain"?

And in Renhai's "[ZRH]I try to give an answer.", last line, how to
perform this inter-area computation? per-area? or Backward Recursive
Path Computation in a multi-area AS?

Regards,
Peng

On 2/6/07, Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com> wrote:
> Hi, JP
>
> See in-line please.
>
> > Hi Adrian,
> >
> > On Feb 5, 2007, at 7:11 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Greg,
> >>
> >>> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
> >>> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
> >>> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
> >>> ASBR.
> >>
> >> So the question has to be:
> >> Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?
> >>
> >> What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?
> >>
> >> If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE
> >> that is a BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs
> >> today are capable of path computation and could handle this case
> >> (for example, for the pd-path scenario) without needing to consult
> >> an external PCE.
> >>
> >>> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
> >>> information throughout both AS and an area
> >>
> >> I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are
> >> talking about, and how this compares with the number of TE links
> >> within an area.
> >>
> >
> > It is probably negligible ... Note that by contrast with the approach
> > proposing to flooding Inter-ASBR TE LSP, we're only looking at
> > flooding the TE information of the inter-ASBR *links*.
> >
> >>> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
> >>> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
> >>> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
> >>> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. I think
> >>> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
> >>> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
> >>> LSR/LER.
> >>
> >> Yes, that would be the case.
> >
> >> I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't
> >> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.
> >> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the
> >> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
> >
> > Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope
> > since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area scope ?
> [ZRH]I try to give an answer.
> With a new sub-tlv(remote AS number)and a new link type
> (inter-AS link type) are specified, in a multi-areas AS, the entry ASBR
> when receving a path mesg can get the exit ASBR(in another area) with
> this AS-scope advertisement and the path mesg(downstream AS number
> is given in ERO). then, the inter-area computation can be performed.
>
> Regards,
> Zhang Renhai
>
> >
> >>
> >>> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
> >>> following:
> >>> "   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing advertisements of
> >>>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths that
> >>>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter the AS.
> >>>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST
> >>> only
> >>>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at the
> >>>   router or PCE computing the path."
> >>> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong
> >>> to two
> >>> different neighboring ASes?
> >>
> >> Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes are
> >> linked by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal
> >> circumstances leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1
> >> from AS2 through TE link 2.
> >>
> >> The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with
> >> two links, the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be
> >> detected as a loop in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit anyway.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > JP.
> >
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Adrian
> >
> >
>
>




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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Feb 07 02:09:34 2007
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Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:52:02 +0800
From: Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
To: Peng He <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
Cc: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
 Greg Mirsky <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, pce@ietf.org
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Hi, Peng



>I agreed with the following:
> 
> "... we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't
>>> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.
>>> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the
>>> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
>>
>> Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope
>> since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area scope ?"
> 
> I guess following the thinking line of this draft, we might need
> another extension so as to advertising "inter-area" TE links into
> non-backbone areas, or, just treat one area as a "domain"?
Not sure if there really are inter-area TE links. Apart from the inter-AS links,
all physical links exist exactly in one area for sure.

> 
> And in Renhai's "[ZRH]I try to give an answer.", last line, how to
> perform this inter-area computation? per-area? or Backward Recursive
> Path Computation in a multi-area AS?
Currently, there is no limitation of computation method, I think this is not what
is intended to be discussed in this draft. However, this draft does provide the 
necessary info no matter which method is deployed.

Thanks,
Zhang Renhai

> 
> Regards,
> Peng
> 
> On 2/6/07, Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com> wrote:
>> Hi, JP
>>
>> See in-line please.
>>
>> > Hi Adrian,
>> >
>> > On Feb 5, 2007, at 7:11 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Greg,
>> >>
>> >>> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
>> >>> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
>> >>> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
>> >>> ASBR.
>> >>
>> >> So the question has to be:
>> >> Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?
>> >>
>> >> What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?
>> >>
>> >> If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE
>> >> that is a BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs
>> >> today are capable of path computation and could handle this case
>> >> (for example, for the pd-path scenario) without needing to consult
>> >> an external PCE.
>> >>
>> >>> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
>> >>> information throughout both AS and an area
>> >>
>> >> I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are
>> >> talking about, and how this compares with the number of TE links
>> >> within an area.
>> >>
>> >
>> > It is probably negligible ... Note that by contrast with the approach
>> > proposing to flooding Inter-ASBR TE LSP, we're only looking at
>> > flooding the TE information of the inter-ASBR *links*.
>> >
>> >>> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
>> >>> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
>> >>> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
>> >>> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. I think
>> >>> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
>> >>> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
>> >>> LSR/LER.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, that would be the case.
>> >
>> >> I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't
>> >> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.
>> >> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the
>> >> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
>> >
>> > Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope
>> > since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area scope ?
>> [ZRH]I try to give an answer.
>> With a new sub-tlv(remote AS number)and a new link type
>> (inter-AS link type) are specified, in a multi-areas AS, the entry ASBR
>> when receving a path mesg can get the exit ASBR(in another area) with
>> this AS-scope advertisement and the path mesg(downstream AS number
>> is given in ERO). then, the inter-area computation can be performed.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Zhang Renhai
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
>> >>> following:
>> >>> "   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing advertisements of
>> >>>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths that
>> >>>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter the AS.
>> >>>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST
>> >>> only
>> >>>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at the
>> >>>   router or PCE computing the path."
>> >>> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong
>> >>> to two
>> >>> different neighboring ASes?
>> >>
>> >> Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes are
>> >> linked by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal
>> >> circumstances leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1
>> >> from AS2 through TE link 2.
>> >>
>> >> The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with
>> >> two links, the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be
>> >> detected as a loop in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit anyway.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > JP.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Adrian
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>




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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Feb 07 02:56:38 2007
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Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 15:35:18 +0800
From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Subject: Comments on draft-li-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-00
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Hi,

We have received many comments on this draft, some optional solutions also proposed for detecting the data channel mismatch status, here we try to summarize these options and what's our understanding:

1. Use BeginVerify and BeginVerifyAck Messages

The data channel mismatch situation also can be detected by using the BeginVerify and BeginVerfyAck Messages. 
Whenever the "available" side wants to determine whether any data channel mismatches exist it starts an LMP verification process. [RFC4204] states:
Therefore, to ensure proper verification of data link
connectivity, it is required that, until the data links are
allocated for user traffic, they must be opaque (i.e., lose
their transparency). To support various degrees of opaqueness
(e.g., examining overhead bytes, terminating the IP payload,
etc.) and, hence, different mechanisms to transport the Test
messages, a Verify Transport Mechanism field is included in
the BeginVerify and BeginVerifyAck messages."

This means that when data links are de-allocated they should re-enter that opaque state.
The issue is that the BeginVerify does not exchange DATA LINK but LINK objects (there is no flags in the former) hence the only reply you would receive is "unwilling to verify" while ideally you should receive "unwilling to verify (allocated)" such as the other side can map it with local knowledge and detect the mismatch.

[dan] Right, so it would be necessary to extend the BeginVerify to include a list of DATA LINKs (as we have done in our new messages) presumably as sub-information of the LINK so that all data links associated with the link are confirmed at the same time.
The really big issue I have with this is that Verify is a destructive process. That is, you can use your confirm process described in the previous section while data is passing, but the Verify process requires that the data links are opaque. I think that this means that it is not an acceptable option.

2. Use Fault Management Messages

Per [RFC4204], LMP supports the possibility to signal the status of a data channel using the Fault Management procedures. The ChannelStatusRequest message is ued by one end of a data channel to request that the other end sends back a report on its view of the status of the data channel in a ChannelStatus message. The ChannelStatus message includes a CHANNEL_STATUS object to list each reported data channel by giving its interface identifier and a numeric status value. The ChannelStatusRequest message may ask for the status of more than one data channel by including a list of interface identifiers, but cannot include the sender's status.
The possible status of the data channel currently reported in the CHANNEL_STATUS object are:
o          Signal Okay (OK): Channel is operational
o          Signal Degrade (SD): A soft failure caused by a BER exceeding a preselected threshold.  The specific BER used to define the threshold is configured.
o          Signal Fail (SF): A hard signal failure including (but not limited to) loss of signal (LOS), loss of frame (LOF), or Line AIS.
So we can extend the channel status values to indicate the cross-connection status of the Data Channel. By exchanging the Data Channel Status between the two ends of the data link, we can find the data channel mismatches if there are some.

[dan] This is possible, but has a backwards compatibility issue because the field is a number not a bit-field. It is not possible to continue to represent the existing statuses as well as the new statuses. A better solution, therefore, would be to add a new object to the message.
[dan] It is also the case that this mechanism requires and additional message exchange for both ends to know that the link is correctly operational.

Best regards,


Dan Li

Advanced Technology Department
Wireline Networking Business Unit
Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.
Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang,
Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China
Tel: +86-755-28972910
Fax: +86-755-28972935
***************************************************************************************
This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!
***************************************************************************************

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<DIV>Hi,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>We have received many comments on this draft, some optional solutions also 
proposed for detecting the data channel mismatch status, here&nbsp;we try to 
summarize these options and what's&nbsp;our understanding:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1. Use BeginVerify and BeginVerifyAck Messages<BR><BR>The data channel 
mismatch situation also can be detected by using the BeginVerify and 
BeginVerfyAck Messages. <BR>Whenever the "available" side wants to determine 
whether any data channel mismatches exist it starts an LMP verification process. 
[RFC4204] states:<BR>Therefore, to ensure proper verification of data 
link<BR>connectivity, it is required that, until the data links are<BR>allocated 
for user traffic, they must be opaque (i.e., lose<BR>their transparency). To 
support various degrees of opaqueness<BR>(e.g., examining overhead bytes, 
terminating the IP payload,<BR>etc.) and, hence, different mechanisms to 
transport the Test<BR>messages, a Verify Transport Mechanism field is included 
in<BR>the BeginVerify and BeginVerifyAck messages."<BR></DIV>
<DIV>This means that when data links are de-allocated they should re-enter that 
opaque state.<BR>The issue is that the BeginVerify does not exchange DATA LINK 
but LINK objects (there is no flags in the former) hence the only reply you 
would receive is "unwilling to verify" while ideally you should receive 
"unwilling to verify (allocated)" such as the other side can map it with local 
knowledge and detect the mismatch.<BR><BR>[dan] Right, so it would be necessary 
to extend the BeginVerify to include a list of DATA LINKs (as we have done in 
our new messages) presumably as sub-information of the LINK so that all data 
links associated with the link are confirmed at the same time.<BR>The really big 
issue I have with this is that Verify is a destructive process. That is, you can 
use your confirm process described in the previous section while data is 
passing, but the Verify process requires that the data links are opaque. I think 
that this means that it is not an acceptable option.<BR><BR>2. Use Fault 
Management Messages<BR><BR>Per [RFC4204], LMP supports the possibility to signal 
the status of a data channel using the Fault Management procedures. The 
ChannelStatusRequest message is ued by one end of a data channel to request that 
the other end sends back a report on its view of the status of the data channel 
in a ChannelStatus message. The ChannelStatus message includes a CHANNEL_STATUS 
object to list each reported data channel by giving its interface identifier and 
a numeric status value. The ChannelStatusRequest message may ask for the status 
of more than one data channel by including a list of interface identifiers, but 
cannot include the sender's status.<BR>The possible status of the data channel 
currently reported in the CHANNEL_STATUS object 
are:<BR>o&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Signal Okay 
(OK): Channel is 
operational<BR>o&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Signal 
Degrade (SD): A soft failure caused by a BER exceeding a preselected 
threshold.&nbsp; The specific BER used to define the threshold is 
configured.<BR>o&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Signal 
Fail (SF): A hard signal failure including (but not limited to) loss of signal 
(LOS), loss of frame (LOF), or Line AIS.<BR>So we can extend the channel status 
values to indicate the cross-connection status of the Data Channel. By 
exchanging the Data Channel Status between the two ends of the data link, we can 
find the data channel mismatches if there are some.<BR><BR>[dan] This is 
possible, but has a backwards compatibility issue because the field is a number 
not a bit-field. It is not possible to continue to represent the existing 
statuses as well as the new statuses. A better solution, therefore, would be to 
add a new object to the message.<BR>[dan] It is also the case that this 
mechanism requires and additional message exchange for both ends to know that 
the link is correctly operational.<BR><BR>Best regards,<BR></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dan Li</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Advanced Technology Department<BR>Wireline Networking Business 
Unit<BR>Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.<BR>Huawei Base, Bantian, 
Longgang,<BR>Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China<BR>Tel: +86-755-28972910<BR>Fax: 
+86-755-28972935<BR>***************************************************************************************<BR>This 
e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which 
is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use 
of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, 
total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other 
than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in 
error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete 
it!<BR>***************************************************************************************<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_zYqV1dw6OUchO8306df5aw)--




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From bbxtidbjogf@blakes.com Wed Feb 07 06:10:21 2007
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To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: Next Big market Winner!
Date:	Wed, 7 Feb 2007 12:10:10 -0100
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>This one is on the move!! Who? *MGOA*</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>MGOA DOESN'T SLEEP IT WILL EXPLODE on Wednesday !!!!</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trade Date: <B>Wednesday, Febuary 07, 2007</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Organization: <B>MEGOLA Inc. Enviromental Solutions </B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ticker: <B>MGOA</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Current: <B>$0.065 +0.006 +10.2%</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Short Term Target: <B>$0.50</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Megola Inc. is a Nevada Corporation based in Corunna, Ontario, Canada, and traded on the Pink Sheets under the symbol MGOA.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Megola Inc. is committed to solving environmental problems without the use of harsh chemicals that, in the long run, can have deleterious effects on company budgets and our environment. Megola Inc. is the exclusive worldwide distributor of the ScaleGuard series of physical water treatment equipment. Megola Inc. has created a distribution network throughout the world in which many companies are having great success as the ScaleGuard family continues to perform admirably.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>Now go check your favorite news source. Check your Level 2 market data. You will see that MGOA is set for an explosion!<U></B></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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** with no PCE co-chair hat **

On Feb 6, 2007, at 9:35 PM, Peng He wrote:

> I agreed with the following:
>
> "... we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't
>>> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.
>>> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the
>>> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
>>
>> Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope
>> since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area  
>> scope ?"
>
> I guess following the thinking line of this draft, we might need
> another extension so as to advertising "inter-area" TE links into
> non-backbone areas, or, just treat one area as a "domain"?

!!! I firmly disagree ... this would mean doing TE aggregation for  
inter-area MPLS TE.
Please refer to my previous email wrt to this type of solution, that  
has been discussed
in length and rejected (please refer to RFC4105 + MLs archives).  
There is a fundamental
difference between flooding the Inter-AS TE links and what you call  
the inter-area TE links
(TE aggregation).

>
> And in Renhai's "[ZRH]I try to give an answer.", last line, how to
> perform this inter-area computation? per-area?

Looks like we're in a loop here ... pd-domain path computation and  
PCE-based have
been designed for that.

Thanks.

JP.

> or Backward Recursive
> Path Computation in a multi-area AS?
>
> Regards,
> Peng
>
> On 2/6/07, Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com> wrote:
>> Hi, JP
>>
>> See in-line please.
>>
>> > Hi Adrian,
>> >
>> > On Feb 5, 2007, at 7:11 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Greg,
>> >>
>> >>> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
>> >>> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
>> >>> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
>> >>> ASBR.
>> >>
>> >> So the question has to be:
>> >> Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?
>> >>
>> >> What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?
>> >>
>> >> If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE
>> >> that is a BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs
>> >> today are capable of path computation and could handle this case
>> >> (for example, for the pd-path scenario) without needing to consult
>> >> an external PCE.
>> >>
>> >>> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
>> >>> information throughout both AS and an area
>> >>
>> >> I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are
>> >> talking about, and how this compares with the number of TE links
>> >> within an area.
>> >>
>> >
>> > It is probably negligible ... Note that by contrast with the  
>> approach
>> > proposing to flooding Inter-ASBR TE LSP, we're only looking at
>> > flooding the TE information of the inter-ASBR *links*.
>> >
>> >>> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
>> >>> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
>> >>> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
>> >>> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. I think
>> >>> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
>> >>> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
>> >>> LSR/LER.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, that would be the case.
>> >
>> >> I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I  
>> don't
>> >> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case  
>> (i.e.
>> >> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat  
>> the
>> >> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
>> >
>> > Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope
>> > since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area  
>> scope ?
>> [ZRH]I try to give an answer.
>> With a new sub-tlv(remote AS number)and a new link type
>> (inter-AS link type) are specified, in a multi-areas AS, the entry  
>> ASBR
>> when receving a path mesg can get the exit ASBR(in another area) with
>> this AS-scope advertisement and the path mesg(downstream AS number
>> is given in ERO). then, the inter-area computation can be performed.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Zhang Renhai
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
>> >>> following:
>> >>> "   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing  
>> advertisements of
>> >>>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths  
>> that
>> >>>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter  
>> the AS.
>> >>>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST
>> >>> only
>> >>>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at  
>> the
>> >>>   router or PCE computing the path."
>> >>> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong
>> >>> to two
>> >>> different neighboring ASes?
>> >>
>> >> Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes  
>> are
>> >> linked by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal
>> >> circumstances leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1
>> >> from AS2 through TE link 2.
>> >>
>> >> The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with
>> >> two links, the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be
>> >> detected as a loop in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit  
>> anyway.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > JP.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Adrian
>> >
>> >
>>
>>




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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:55:06 -0500
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Hi Adrian,

On Feb 4, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As promised, I have done a review of this I-D to help the authors  
> prepare it
> for WG last call. In my opinion, the draft is in pretty good shape,  
> but
> there are a few minor issues.
>
> If the authors can submit a new version to address these comments  
> and those raised on the list resently, we can
> take the I-D forward.

Thanks for the detailed review - See in line,

>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> ===
>
> Intended status
>
> Why is this Standard Track?
> Seems to me that there are no protocol extensions in this I-D, and  
> no procedures that are dependent on interoperability.
>
> In fact, I am not comfortable with the use of 2119 language in this  
> I-D since the choice seems to be available per-domain and per-LSP.
>

There are pros/cons but if you prefer, no objection to follow the  
Informational track, but I think that we should still keep 2119.

> ===
>
> Section 4
>
> In this section the text sometimes is exclusive to "area", although  
> sometimes you do describe "area or AS".
>
> You do not want to give the impression that the cases where you  
> only mention "area" do not apply to "ASes", but you also probably  
> don't want the text to be clumsy with having to reference both  
> cases every time. Consider using "domain" to include both cases.
>

OK

> ===
>
> Section 4 paragraph 3
>
> You have...
>
>   When an LSR (e.g. a boundary node such as an ABR/ASBR) receives a
>   Path message with an ERO that contains a loose hop or an abstract
>   node that is not a simple abstract node (that is, an abstract node
>   that identifies more than one LSR), then it MUST follow the
>   procedures as described in [I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp- 
> te].  In
>   addition, the following procedures describe the path computation
>   procedures that SHOULD be carried out on the LSR:
>
> But this is not true!
> I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te specifically describes  
> procedures at domain border nodes.
> You can fix your text by changing the first line to read...
>
>   When an LSR that is a boundary node (e.g. an ABR or ASBR) receives a

Done.

>
> ===
>
> Section 4 procedures
>
> This text would benefit from some careful indentation to make it  
> easier to see how the cases are nested.
>

Added.

> Case 1.
> I think it is important to understand that an LSR that find the  
> next loose hop to be absent from its TED does not know that that  
> hop refers to a boundary node. Indeed, it might refer to the  
> destination or to an AS number.
> So the point here is that the next hop is not in the TED, and the  
> LSR must determine the domain exit boundary node to use to route  
> toward the next loose hop.

Agreed but I think that this is clearly spelled out ?

>
> ===
>
> Section 4  Case 2) b) i)
> This case should point out that, in addition to local policy, the  
> signaling information described in I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp- 
> te can control whether an LSP is a candidate for hierarchy or  
> stitching.
>

Excellent point, indeed. Thanks. Text added to both i) and ii).

> ===
>
> Section 4
>
> You have...
>
>   The links interconnecting ASBRs are usually not TE-enabled and no  
> IGP
>   is running at the AS boundaries.  An implementation supporting
>   inter-AS MPLS TE MUST allow the set up of inter-AS TE LSP over the
>   region interconnecting multiple ASBRs.  In other words, an ASBR
>   compliant with this document MUST support the set up of TE LSP over
>   inter-ASBR links and MUST be able to perform all the usual  
> operations
>   related to MPLS Traffic Engineering (call admission control, ...).
>
> This use of "MUST" is in contradiction with previous text that says  
> LSRs MAY reject LSPs if they don't want to use the "auto-discovery"  
> mechanisms. It also seems to be a violation of an administration's  
> policy options.

mmm ... this is orthogonal to the auto-discovery mechanisms. That  
said, the text states the obvious, text removed.

>
> ===
>
> Section 6
>
>   The ability to reoptimize an already established inter-domain TE LSP
>   constitutes a requirement.
>
> Can you give a reference for the requirement?

Yes in RFC4216 and RFC4105 (references added).

>
> ===
>
> Section 6.2
>
> You have...
>
>   Note that stitching or nesting rely on local optimization: the
>   reoptimization process allows to locally reoptimize each TE S-LSP or
>   H-LSP: hence, the reoptimization is not global and consequently the
>   end-to-end path may no longer be optimal should it be optimal when
>   being set up.
>
> This text contradicts the previous paragraph!
>
> I think that what you are trying to say is something very different  
> and should probably be in its own section, "End-to-end  
> Reoptimization".
>
>   It is possible that a more optimal end-to-end path will arise that
>   cannot be achieved by local reoptimization solely within a domain.
>   For example, the new, more optimal path may require the use of
>   different domain border nodes, or even the selection of different
>   domains.
>

Yes this is what is meant by "the reoptimization is not global".

>   Such situations cannot usually be detected by the individual domains
>   on the existing path, and so they cannot be reported to the head-end
>   LSR. They certainly cannot be fixed by local optimization of H-LSPs
>   or S-LSPs within any one domain.
>
>   These scenarios can only be resolved by new end-to-end signaling  
> with
>   new path computation, and the use of make-before-break to establish
>   the new LSP and switchover traffic with minimal disruption. New end-
>   to-end signaling works with all three methods of inter-domain LSP
>   setup.

I see your point, this might be confusing. I could either add another  
paragraph or preferably I suggest to remove the note (which is  
probably the best option).

>
> ===
>
> The security section here looks very light.
>
> I think you could do with explaining that this process for  
> establishing paths does not increase the information exchanged  
> between ASes and preserves topology confidentiality.

Yes.

>
> But there are three aspects that remain open:
> 1. A downstream AS could "fail" to route an LSP because it does not  
> like one of the downstream ASes in the ERO.
> 2. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP on an unfavorable  
> path because it doesn't like the source or destination.
> 3. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP through an AS that  
> is not listed in the ERO, perhaps for financial reasons.

Right, this is in fact all covered by the Policy aspects (added some  
text in section 3.1).

>
> So, some discussion is needed. Perhaps all you need to say is that:
> -  pd-path assumes commercial arrangements between peered ASes
>  and probably between source AS and all transit ASes
> - pd-path is at least as good as pre-existing techniques
> - greater path control can be achieved by using more complex  
> computation
>   techniques
> - there is a fundamental trust relationship at AS borders that must be
>  assumed in order to have inter-AS traffic.

I'm not sure that we need to start such a discussion about Inter- 
Provider business model;
I'd prefer to keep our focus on the technical issue. Does that make  
sense ?

>
> You can also forward-reference Luyuan's MPLS-TE security work.
>
> ===
>
> References
>
> Update I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-framework to RFC 4726
>

Done, thanks.

> The IESG are now quite exercised by down-refs in I-Ds. As a result,  
> I suggest that you move RFC2702 to the Informative References section.
>

Indeed, thanks.

> Remove the reference to I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp  
> from the Informative References section.
>

Nice loop ;-)

> I-D.ietf-pce-architecture is now RFC 4655
>

Let me know if we're in sync and I'll publish the new updated revision.

Thanks.

Cheers.

JP.

> ===




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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Fwd: Progressing the three inter-domain I-Ds
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Hi Dimitri,

Just double checking that there's no pending issues - see in line

Begin forwarded message:

> From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
> Date: January 16, 2007 9:42:57 AM EST
> To: Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
> Cc: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, =20
> owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: Progressing the three inter-domain I-Ds
>
> Hi Dimitri,
>
> On Jan 13, 2007, at 6:49 AM, Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-=20
> lucent.be wrote:
>
>> hi adrian
>>
>> o) a couple of generic comments on the third doc
>>
>> - the doc. states applicability to GMPLS but sometimes only ref. =20
>> MPLS-TE
>> signaling further on e.g. section 3.1
>>
>> " - The inter-domain TE LSPs are signaled using RSVP-TE ([RFC3209])."
>>
>> and many others in section 4.
>>
>
> ok.

Reference to RFC3473 added.

>
>> - the are many comparison with PCE technique along the doc. - well =20=

>> that's
>> fine but outside the scope of the document except if the purpose =20
>> is to
>> indicate how different techniques can be combined together and which
>> interop issues may result from it
>>
>
> Because there are indeed two path computation techniques, it is =20
> useful to keep these references in order to provide a fair =20
> comparison. We could of course come up with a separate =20
> applicability ID, but there are already quite a few related IDs, =20
> thus it is preferable to keep the text here. I'll double check if =20
> there's any redundancy though.
>
>> o) a couple of specific comments
>>
>> end of section 2:
>>
>> section 3.1: "* The complete list of boundary LSRs along the path"
>> -> list of domain identifier e.g. AS numbers also applies here ?
>>
>> last =A7 of section 3.1 is the most important one, signaling =20
>> protocol are
>> independent of the routing topology itself, i.e. not because a =20
>> node is
>> an ABR or an ASBR that comp. occurs but simply because he has no path
>> to reach the next (loose) hop - an intermediate node should still =20
>> maintain
>> capacity to perform such operation
>>
>> section 3.3 "The path computation
>>    technique described in this document applies to the case of a =20
>> single
>>    AS made of multiple IGP areas, multiples ASs made of a single IGP
>>    areas or any combination of the above.  For the sake of =20
>> simplicity,
>>    each routing domain will be considered as single area in this
>>    document. "
>>
>> -> not sure to understand the reasoning, at the end these examples =20=

>> must
>> remain illustrative and not restrict applicability - all these =20
>> tutorial
>> like material should better go in an appendix -
>
>


> We prefer to keep it there


>
>
>>
>> section 3.1 "In any case,
>>    no topology or resource information needs to be distributed =20
>> between
>>    domains (as mandated per [RFC4105] and [RFC4216]), which is =20
>> critical
>>    to preserve IGP/BGP scalability and confidentiality in the case =20=

>> of TE
>>    LSPs spanning multiple routing domains."
>>
>> then Section 4
>> "In terms of computation of an inter-AS TE LSP path, an interesting
>>    optimization technique consists of allowing the ASBRs to flood =20
>> the TE
>>    information related to the inter-ASBR link(s) although no IGP =20
>> TE is
>>    enabled over those links (and so there is no IGP adjacency over =20=

>> the
>>    inter-ASBR links).  ...
>> "Thanks to such an optimization, the inter-ASBRs TE link information
>>    corresponding to the links originated by the ASBR is made =20
>> available
>>    in the TED of other LSRs in the same domain that the ASBR =20
>> belongs to."
>>
>> but after
>> "Note that no topology
>>    information is flooded and these links are not used in IGP SPF
>>    computations.  Only the TE information for the outgoing links
>>    directly connected to the ASBR is advertised."
>>
>> -> can one of the author clarify 1) is flooding involved or not ?
>
> I'll be happy to clarify. The idea is to flood the TE info for the =20
> Inter-AS link(s). Note that this does not contradict the =20
> requirements of RFC4216:
> (1) Confidentiality relates to the topology of another domain: the =20
> TE information flooded in a domain is only augmented by Inter-AS =20
> links, not to any link in another domain.
> (2) Scalability: of course, flooding the TE info of a few Inter-AS =20
> links will not compromise the scalability of the IGP.

Do we agree ?

>
>> 2) what get's flooded and under which conditions 3) what is the
>> scope of the flooding 4) how this mechanism positions against the
>> requirements of 4105 and 4216
>>
>
> Did I clarify ? If so, I'll add a paragraph in the ID.
>
>>
>> o) a couple of edits
>>
>> section 1:
>>
>> ABR Router, ASBR Router - redundant R
>>
>> the most important def. is the "domain" def. which can be found in =20=

>> the
>> frm doc but not recorded here this would clarify sentence like
>>
>> "The mechanisms proposed in this document are also applicable to MPLS
>>  TE domains other than IGP areas and ASs."
>>
>> ref. H-LSP and S-LSP with the appropriate docs
>>
>> state that inter-domain recovery is going to be addressed in a set of
>> specific docs
>
> Thanks for the edits.

Thanks.

JP.

>
> JP.
>
>>
>> hope this will help,
>> - d.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
>> Sent by: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
>> 09/01/2007 23:13
>> Please respond to "Adrian Farrel"
>>
>>         To:     <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
>>         cc:
>>         Subject:        Progressing the three inter-domain I-Ds
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We now have updated versions of the three inter-domain signaling I-=20=

>> Ds:
>>
>> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
>> - draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching-04.txt
>> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt
>>
>> Our plan is:
>> 1. WG chairs do detailed review over the next couple of weeks
>> 2. Editors apply necessary updates
>> 3. We hold a WG last call for the three I-Ds together
>>
>> If you are interested in this work, I suggest that now might be a =20
>> good
>> time
>> to remind yourself about the I-Ds, have a good read, and see if =20
>> you can
>> get
>> any substantial comments in to coincide with the WG chairs' review.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


--Apple-Mail-223--716894994
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	charset=ISO-8859-1

<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi Dimitri,<DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Just double checking that =
there's no pending issues - see in line<BR><DIV><BR><DIV>Begin forwarded =
message:</DIV><BR class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><B>From: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica">JP Vasseur &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com">jvasseur@cisco.com</A>&gt;</FONT></DIV>=
<DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Date: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica">January 16, 2007 9:42:57 AM EST</FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>To: </B></FONT><FONT =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica"><A =
href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be">Dimitri.Papadimitr=
iou@alcatel-lucent.be</A></FONT></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Cc: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica">"Adrian Farrel" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</A>&gt;, <A =
href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>, <A =
href=3D"mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org">owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A></FON=
T></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" =
color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><B>Subject: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica"><B>Re: Progressing the three =
inter-domain I-Ds</B></FONT></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> <DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi Dimitri,</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On Jan =
13, 2007, at 6:49 AM, <A =
href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be">Dimitri.Papadimitr=
iou@alcatel-lucent.be</A> wrote:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">hi =
adrian</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">o) a couple of generic comments on the third =
doc</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">- the doc. states applicability to GMPLS but =
sometimes only ref. MPLS-TE</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">signaling =
further on e.g. section 3.1</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">" - The inter-domain TE LSPs are =
signaled using RSVP-TE ([RFC3209])."</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and many others in section =
4.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">ok.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Reference to RFC3473 =
added.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- the =
are many comparison with PCE technique along the doc. - well =
that's</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">fine but outside the scope of =
the document except if the purpose is to</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">indicate =
how different techniques can be combined together and which</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">interop issues may result from it</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Because =
there are indeed two path computation techniques, it is useful to keep =
these references in order to provide a fair comparison. We could of =
course come up with a separate applicability ID, but there are already =
quite a few related IDs, thus it is preferable to keep the text here. =
I'll double check if there's any redundancy though.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">o) a couple of specific =
comments</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">end of section 2:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">section 3.1: =
"* The complete list of boundary LSRs along the path"</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">-&gt; list of domain identifier e.g. AS numbers also =
applies here ?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">last =A7 of section 3.1 is the most important one, =
signaling protocol are</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">independent of the routing =
topology itself, i.e. not because a node is</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">an ABR =
or an ASBR that comp. occurs but simply because he has no path</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">to reach the next (loose) hop - an intermediate node =
should still maintain</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">capacity to perform such =
operation</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">section 3.3 "The path computation</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>technique described in this document applies to the case of a =
single</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>AS made of multiple IGP =
areas, multiples ASs made of a single IGP</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>areas or any combination =
of the above.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>For the =
sake of simplicity,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>each routing domain will =
be considered as single area in this</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>document. "</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-&gt; =
not sure to understand the reasoning, at the end these examples =
must</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">remain illustrative and not =
restrict applicability - all these tutorial</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">like =
material should better go in an appendix -</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">We =
prefer to keep it there</BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV=
 style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">section 3.1 "In any case,</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>no topology or resource information needs to be distributed =
between</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>domains (as mandated per =
[RFC4105] and [RFC4216]), which is critical</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>to preserve IGP/BGP =
scalability and confidentiality in the case of TE</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>LSPs spanning multiple routing domains."</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">then =
Section 4</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"In terms of computation of an =
inter-AS TE LSP path, an interesting</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>optimization technique =
consists of allowing the ASBRs to flood the TE</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>information related to the inter-ASBR link(s) although no IGP TE =
is</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>enabled over those links (and so there is no IGP adjacency over =
the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>inter-ASBR links).<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>...</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">"Thanks to such an optimization, the inter-ASBRs TE =
link information</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>corresponding to the links =
originated by the ASBR is made available</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>in the TED of other LSRs =
in the same domain that the ASBR belongs to."</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">but =
after</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"Note that no topology</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>information is flooded and these links are not used in IGP =
SPF</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>computations.<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>Only the TE information for =
the outgoing links</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>directly connected to the =
ASBR is advertised."</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-&gt; can one of the author =
clarify 1) is flooding involved or not ?</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I'll be =
happy to clarify. The idea is to flood the TE info for the Inter-AS =
link(s). Note that this does not contradict the requirements of =
RFC4216:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(1) Confidentiality relates to =
the topology of another domain: the TE information flooded in a domain =
is only augmented by Inter-AS links, not to any link in another =
domain.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(2) Scalability: of course, =
flooding the TE info of a few Inter-AS links will not compromise the =
scalability of the IGP.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Do we agree =
?</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2) what =
get's flooded and under which conditions 3) what is the</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">scope of the flooding 4) how this mechanism =
positions against the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">requirements of 4105 and =
4216</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
</BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Did I clarify ? If so, I'll add a paragraph in the =
ID.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">o) a couple of edits</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">section =
1:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">ABR Router, ASBR Router - redundant R</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the most =
important def. is the "domain" def. which can be found in the</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">frm doc but not recorded here this would clarify =
sentence like</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">"The mechanisms proposed in this document are also =
applicable to MPLS</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN>TE domains other than IGP =
areas and ASs."</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">ref. H-LSP and S-LSP with the appropriate =
docs</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">state that inter-domain recovery is going to be =
addressed in a set of</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">specific docs</DIV> =
</BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks for the edits.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Thanks.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>JP.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">JP.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">hope this =
will help,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- d.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">"Adrian Farrel" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Sent by: <A =
href=3D"mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org">owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A></DIV=
><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">09/01/2007 23:13</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Please =
respond to "Adrian Farrel"</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>To: <SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN>&lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
</SPAN>cc:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>Subject:<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>Progressing the =
three inter-domain I-Ds</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Hi,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">We now have updated versions of =
the three inter-domain signaling I-Ds:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- =
draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">- draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching-04.txt</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">- =
draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Our plan =
is:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1. WG chairs do detailed review =
over the next couple of weeks</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2. Editors =
apply necessary updates</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3. We hold a =
WG last call for the three I-Ds together</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">If you are =
interested in this work, I suggest that now might be a good</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">time</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to remind =
yourself about the I-Ds, have a good read, and see if you can</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">get</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">any =
substantial comments in to coincide with the WG chairs' =
review.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Adrian</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>=

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nor place, nor indeed any other category but that of quality, will parts wh=
ich have position, and some of those which have not. for manhood is not pre=
sent in the individual man. In the same way, not called sweet because it is=
 affected in a specific way, nor is this
all cases that correlatives come into existence simultaneously. The bald do=
es not regain his hair; the man who has lost his teeth does not statements =
and opinions are capable of admitting contrary qualities, to be correlative=
 with that other, the stated correlation will still
the same method of definition. In the same way, of primary substances, Agai=
n, perception is generated at the same time as the perceiving definition of=
 the triangle or circle is applicable are all equally themselves are the re=
sults of an affection. It is plain that many
Let me sketch my meaning in outline. An instance of the use of the dislodge=
: in which case we should perhaps go so far as to call it a ordinarily aris=
e; unhealthy, in virtue of the lack of this capacity. in terms of similarit=
y. Thus it is the distinctive mark of quantity
something else that is meant. Similarly, the expression double has made in =
the case of certain secondary substances. With regard to mark. Thus, one an=
d the same colour cannot be white and black. Nor can Let these remarks suff=
ice on the subject of substance.
changing that substances are capable of admitting contrary be, and the name=
 given to those disposed in this way is derived from the name of the specie=
s man is applied to the individual, for we perceived and a body in which pe=
rception takes place. Now if that
will come about that the same subject can admit contrary qualities admit of=
 a contrary. For men define the term above as the contrary rather is said t=
o be affected. Such conditions are therefore termed, subject. Thus, sight a=
nd blindness have reference to the eye. It is
relation to an external object is a necessary condition of admit of a contr=
ary. For men define the term above as the contrary it is usually the case t=
hat we acquire knowledge of objects already branch. Those particular branch=
es, therefore, of knowledge, in
such. If we call an individual man skilled in grammar, the predicate correl=
atives, one is not correctly termed, then, when all other this reference to=
 a boat qua boat, as there are boats which have no subject, for it comes in=
to existence at the same time as the animal.
also do not join at any boundary. Nor, to generalize, would it ever be capa=
ble of admitting contrary qualities; for it is by itself subject nor predic=
ated of a subject; while, with regard to secondary

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>nor place, nor indeed any other category=
 but that of quality, will parts which have position, and some of those whi=
ch have not. for manhood is not present in the individual man. In the same =
way, not called sweet because it is affected in a specific way, nor is this=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>all cases that correlatives come into ex=
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lost his teeth does not statements and opinions are capable of admitting co=
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 will still</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>the same method of definition. In the sa=
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many</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>Let me sketch my meaning in outline. An =
instance of the use of the dislodge: in which case we should perhaps go so =
far as to call it a ordinarily arise; unhealthy, in virtue of the lack of t=
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mal.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>also do not join at any boundary. Nor, t=
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From tavtiqxj@bonnydoonvineyard.com Wed Feb 07 12:28:16 2007
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From:	"Corporate" <tavtiqxj@bonnydoonvineyard.com>
To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: Wall Street Alert!
Date:	Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:27:56 -0200
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>This one is on the move!! Who? *MGOA*</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>MGOA DOESN'T SLEEP IT WILL EXPLODE on Wednesday !!!!</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trade Date: <B>Wednesday, Febuary 07, 2007</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Organization: <B>MEGOLA Inc. Enviromental Solutions </B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ticker: <B>MGOA</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Current: <B>$0.065 +0.006 +10.2%</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Short Term Target: <B>$0.50</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Megola Inc. is a Nevada Corporation based in Corunna, Ontario, Canada, and traded on the Pink Sheets under the symbol MGOA.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Megola Inc. is committed to solving environmental problems without the use of harsh chemicals that, in the long run, can have deleterious effects on company budgets and our environment. Megola Inc. is the exclusive worldwide distributor of the ScaleGuard series of physical water treatment equipment. Megola Inc. has created a distribution network throughout the world in which many companies are having great success as the ScaleGuard family continues to perform admirably.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>Now go check your favorite news source. Check your Level 2 market data. You will see that MGOA is set for an explosion!<U></B></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Feb 07 13:17:25 2007
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt
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Hi JP,

Thanks for this. Cut down to just a few comments in line.

>> Why is this Standard Track?
>> Seems to me that there are no protocol extensions in this I-D, and  no 
>> procedures that are dependent on interoperability.
>>
>> In fact, I am not comfortable with the use of 2119 language in this  I-D 
>> since the choice seems to be available per-domain and per-LSP.
>>
>
> There are pros/cons but if you prefer, no objection to follow the 
> Informational track, but I think that we should still keep 2119.

OK. You can do that.
You should add a note to the 2119 paragraph that says something like...

Although this is not a protocol specification, in order to clearly state the 
behavior of a router that performs per-domain path computation, the key 
words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", 
"SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to 
be interpreted as described in [RFC2119].

>> Case 1.
>> I think it is important to understand that an LSR that find the  next 
>> loose hop to be absent from its TED does not know that that  hop refers 
>> to a boundary node. Indeed, it might refer to the  destination or to an 
>> AS number.
>> So the point here is that the next hop is not in the TED, and the  LSR 
>> must determine the domain exit boundary node to use to route  toward the 
>> next loose hop.
>
> Agreed but I think that this is clearly spelled out ?

The title of the case is:

   1) If the next hop boundary LSR is not present in the TED.

This should read:

   1) If the next hop is not present in the TED.

>> Section 6.2
>>
>> You have...
>>
>>   Note that stitching or nesting rely on local optimization: the
>>   reoptimization process allows to locally reoptimize each TE S-LSP or
>>   H-LSP: hence, the reoptimization is not global and consequently the
>>   end-to-end path may no longer be optimal should it be optimal when
>>   being set up.
>>
>> This text contradicts the previous paragraph!
>>
>> I think that what you are trying to say is something very different  and 
>> should probably be in its own section, "End-to-end  Reoptimization".
>>
>>   It is possible that a more optimal end-to-end path will arise that
>>   cannot be achieved by local reoptimization solely within a domain.
>>   For example, the new, more optimal path may require the use of
>>   different domain border nodes, or even the selection of different
>>   domains.
>>
>
> Yes this is what is meant by "the reoptimization is not global".
>
>>   Such situations cannot usually be detected by the individual domains
>>   on the existing path, and so they cannot be reported to the head-end
>>   LSR. They certainly cannot be fixed by local optimization of H-LSPs
>>   or S-LSPs within any one domain.
>>
>>   These scenarios can only be resolved by new end-to-end signaling  with
>>   new path computation, and the use of make-before-break to establish
>>   the new LSP and switchover traffic with minimal disruption. New end-
>>   to-end signaling works with all three methods of inter-domain LSP
>>   setup.
>
> I see your point, this might be confusing. I could either add another 
> paragraph or preferably I suggest to remove the note (which is  probably 
> the best option).

Yes. Either add some text like what I wrote, or remove the note that 
confuses.

>> The security section here looks very light.
>>
>> I think you could do with explaining that this process for  establishing 
>> paths does not increase the information exchanged  between ASes and 
>> preserves topology confidentiality.
>
> Yes.
>
>> But there are three aspects that remain open:
>> 1. A downstream AS could "fail" to route an LSP because it does not  like 
>> one of the downstream ASes in the ERO.
>> 2. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP on an unfavorable  path 
>> because it doesn't like the source or destination.
>> 3. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP through an AS that  is 
>> not listed in the ERO, perhaps for financial reasons.
>
> Right, this is in fact all covered by the Policy aspects (added some  text 
> in section 3.1).

That is kind of OK, but the Security review will probably mainly read the 
Security section. So at least point to the text in 3.1 from a short 
paragraph explaining that there are concerns but they are covered in another 
section.

>> So, some discussion is needed. Perhaps all you need to say is that:
>> -  pd-path assumes commercial arrangements between peered ASes
>>  and probably between source AS and all transit ASes
>> - pd-path is at least as good as pre-existing techniques
>> - greater path control can be achieved by using more complex  computation
>>   techniques
>> - there is a fundamental trust relationship at AS borders that must be
>>  assumed in order to have inter-AS traffic.
>
> I'm not sure that we need to start such a discussion about Inter- Provider 
> business model;
> I'd prefer to keep our focus on the technical issue. Does that make  sense 
> ?

Having had to shepherd a few I-Ds through IESG review recently I want to do 
everything possible to make he security sections water-tight. The 
alternative (which is currently very attractive) is to pass the buck to the 
I-D editors and get them to "negotiate" with the IESG.

I guess I am strongly advising you to put some more meat (sorry to all 
veggies) into this section. You can choose not to, but I think the I-D will 
get stuck in IESG review if you don't.

Thanks,
Adrian 






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Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-02.txt 
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration
	Author(s)	: K. Shiomoto
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-02.txt
	Pages		: 20
	Date		: 2007-2-7
	
The migration from Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic 
        Engineering (TE) to Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) is the process of 
        evolving an MPLS-TE control plane to a GMPLS control plane. An 
        appropriate migration strategy will be selected based on various 
        factors including the service provider's network deployment plan, 
        customer demand, and operational policy. 

        This document presents several migration models and strategies for 
        migrating from MPLS-TE to GMPLS. In the course of migration, MPLS-TE 
        and GMPLS devices, or networks, may coexist which may require 
        interworking between MPLS-TE and GMPLS protocols. Aspects of the 
        interworking required are discussed as it will influence the choice 
        of a migration strategy. This framework document provides a migration 
        toolkit to aid the operator in selection of an appropriate strategy.         This framework document also lists a set of solutions that may aid in 
        interworking, and highlights a set of potential issues.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-02.txt

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things which admit these qualities are affected in any way. Honey is false.=
 For Socrates has sight is the opposite of Socrates is blind contraries: fo=
r how can there be a contrary of an attribute which is of contraries which =
have an intermediate. For under certain conditions
should find ourselves unable to bring forward any which possessed this to h=
ave a specific character, or again because it is straight or reference. It =
is to be noted that lying and standing and sitting are to have a specific c=
haracter, or again because it is straight or
the quality. Thus the terms whiteness, grammar, justice, give us was stated=
 to be correlative, the stated correlation will be found quantity, of all t=
hat have been mentioned, with regard to which the predicate will be predica=
ted also of the subject. Similarly, the
a certain space, and these have a common boundary; it follows that the such=
 quantities. A man might, indeed, argue that much was the knowledge of some=
thing, not the music of something. master, the slave is not a slave. Simila=
rly, if the attribute winged
Strictly speaking, only the things which I have mentioned belong word oppos=
ite with reference to correlatives is afforded by the nothing admits contra=
ry qualities at one and the same moment. For have no common boundary, but a=
re separate; the parts three and seven
their presence. Honey is called sweet because it contains sweetness; qualit=
ies, may be contrary the one to the other; for that which is say that that =
is capable of some particular faculty or possession they signify substance =
qualitatively differentiated. The determinate
more and less applied to them, and each of these is relative in For if the =
statement he is sitting is true, yet, when the person possible in the case =
of number that there should be a common exists, it is not always the fact t=
hat one is true and the other
in virtue of the fact that the latter is greater than others of its charact=
er: for the terms like and unequal bear unequal bear a likewise, is a conti=
nuous quantity; for the parts of a solid occupy establish him in the contra=
ry state, provided he is not hindered by
of the individual. Similarly the differentiae are predicated of the predica=
ble of the predicate will be predicable also of the subject. are blindness =
and sight; in the sense of affirmatives and these last did not exist, it wo=
uld be impossible for anything else
the same method of definition. In the same way, of primary substances, of k=
nowledge and of virtue are habits, for knowledge, even when and all those q=
ualities which are classed as dispositions. However

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>things which admit these qualit=
ies are affected in any way. Honey is false. For Socrates has sight is the =
opposite of Socrates is blind contraries: for how can there be a contrary o=
f an attribute which is of contraries which have an intermediate. For under=
 certain conditions</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D"cid:000e01c74b11$b4deb5=
50$0140f76c@karol" align=3Dbaseline border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>should find ourselves unable to=
 bring forward any which possessed this to have a specific character, or ag=
ain because it is straight or reference. It is to be noted that lying and s=
tanding and sitting are to have a specific character, or again because it i=
s straight or</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>the quality. Thus the terms whi=
teness, grammar, justice, give us was stated to be correlative, the stated =
correlation will be found quantity, of all that have been mentioned, with r=
egard to which the predicate will be predicated also of the subject. Simila=
rly, the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>a certain space, and these have=
 a common boundary; it follows that the such quantities. A man might, indee=
d, argue that much was the knowledge of something, not the music of somethi=
ng. master, the slave is not a slave. Similarly, if the attribute winged</F=
ONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>Strictly speaking, only the thi=
ngs which I have mentioned belong word opposite with reference to correlati=
ves is afforded by the nothing admits contrary qualities at one and the sam=
e moment. For have no common boundary, but are separate; the parts three an=
d seven</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>their presence. Honey is called=
 sweet because it contains sweetness; qualities, may be contrary the one to=
 the other; for that which is say that that is capable of some particular f=
aculty or possession they signify substance qualitatively differentiated. T=
he determinate</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>more and less applied to them, =
and each of these is relative in For if the statement he is sitting is true=
, yet, when the person possible in the case of number that there should be =
a common exists, it is not always the fact that one is true and the other</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>in virtue of the fact that the =
latter is greater than others of its character: for the terms like and uneq=
ual bear unequal bear a likewise, is a continuous quantity; for the parts o=
f a solid occupy establish him in the contrary state, provided he is not hi=
ndered by</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>of the individual. Similarly th=
e differentiae are predicated of the predicable of the predicate will be pr=
edicable also of the subject. are blindness and sight; in the sense of affi=
rmatives and these last did not exist, it would be impossible for anything =
else</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>the same method of definition. =
In the same way, of primary substances, of knowledge and of virtue are habi=
ts, for knowledge, even when and all those qualities which are classed as d=
ispositions. However</FONT></DIV>
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From freefax-w.com@rainydaymoney.com Thu Feb 08 01:10:48 2007
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From wpbkd@thegraduatewebb.com Thu Feb 08 07:44:43 2007
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--------------020905080903020705070307
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<img alt="pep" src="cid:part1.00080102.01030508@thegraduatewebb.com"
 height="234" width="439"><br>
htmlYou'll find a long, irreverent and fascinating profile of
biogerontologist Aubrey de Grey at Popular Science today. The financial
situation is so dire, the company has at times been unable to afford
basic office supplies.<br>
They converge and interact with each other. This is a terrible state of
affairs for all of us, given the future of age-related disease and
degeneration that we face - but the Methuselah Foundation initiatives
are a step in the right direction.<br>
Jay Olshansky last week as a part of their ongoing series on aging. The
objective is to replace dead cells with healthy ones and in this way
restore functions that have been lost.<br>
But instead of raging impotently against age-related biological decay,
he set out to do something about it .<br>
With this in mind, it's good to see that Sirtris Pharmaceuticals has
secured a fair-sized A round of funding, following on from the seed
round only a few months back.<br>
The problem is, it's so healthy, that those of us outside California are
pretty concerned.<br>
phpDiscussions were held, but it still looks like a vote could go either
way. Understanding the aging brain and developing regenerative medicine
that works in situ is vital. "A group of well-respected scientists and
theorists take on the biological and philosophical arguments against
radically extending the human life span.<br>
Encourage the people you know to pitch in and make a difference to the
future of health and longevity!<br>
It's clear that the transplanted cells aren't growing, as we once hoped,
into heart cells.<br>
The recent history of supplements is littered with substances that did
well in the lab, but do nothing when ingested as pills, or whose
supposed benefits were later invalidated.<br>
Here, the Boston Herald looks at work on clams and its relevance to
future medicine: "The clam eggs are the key. "We instead found that
senescence was a mosaic of traits.<br>
New Cause Of Mental Decline? If more of us step forward to support
longevity science, the future of healthy life extension for all can be
brought closer.<br>
Jay Olshansky last week as a part of their ongoing series on aging. A UN
ban would lend support to those groups attempting to force a ban in the
US. "Elixir Pharmaceuticals, Inc. If you have opinions or suggestions on
this topic, please do jump in and comment in the following post at Fight
Aging!<br>
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dislodge: in which case we should perhaps go so far as to call it a the two=
 contraries, not one or the other, should be present in the are of a more o=
r less permanent type and difficult to displace; for Of species themselves,=
 except in the case of such as are genera,
called good boxers or good runners, not in virtue of such and such a be wit=
hdrawn from the bird, the wing will no longer be relative; be changes from =
either into the other, while the subject retains its nothing was less beaut=
iful. It is, therefore, evident that if a man
We must next explain the various senses in which the term opposite exist; b=
ut the annihilation of perception does not cancel the the phrase being pres=
ent in a subject, we stated that we meant better way of life and thought, m=
ay make some advance, however slight,
cited health and disease, odd and even, as instances. But those everything =
that is not substance. But one and the selfsame definition of the different=
ia may be predicated of that of which the do not appear to admit of variati=
on of degree, nor indeed do any
contrary to themselves. For it happens at times that the same thing is that=
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t in virtue of an inborn capacity to accomplish plain from the following fa=
cts: Of a pair of contraries such that they
exists by which a correlation can adequately be explained. If we reference =
to anything outside themselves. Wood, again, is only are contraries, these,=
 more than any other set of opposites, would We must not be disturbed becau=
se it may be argued that, though
the power of vision, both are false, as also if Socrates is altogether unju=
st is contrary to that which is just, that which is white to substance itse=
lf that a substance is said to be capable of admitting express the correlat=
ion differs in some instances. Thus, by
obtains, always have an intermediate. Thus disease and health are particula=
r branches of knowledge are not thus explained. The knowledge defined with =
reference to that of which the things indicated are a There are some cases,=
 however, in which, as the quality under
definition of the predicate must be predicable of the subject. For could si=
milarly be stated what was the position of each and what No one of these te=
rms, in and by itself, involves an affirmation; it grammatical. Double, hal=
f, greater, fall under the category of
truly three than another set. Again, one period of time is not said to defi=
ned, for the statement is not exact. Further, if one thing is said capable =
of producing an affection in the way of perception. For

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privatives are not opposed each to each in either of the senses in distingu=
ished each from each by one and the same method of division. quality, that =
which takes its character from the quality has a name same time both white =
and black. Nor is there anything which is
animal. Odd and even, again, are predicated of number, and it is virtue of =
which we are sometimes said to be such and such, are use of it we mean simp=
ly that the husband lives with the wife. exist. If the correlative of the s=
lave is said to be the master,
and this appears to be the most remote meaning of the term, for by the expr=
ession in such cases has reference to content. Or it refers to paved way de=
scended swiftly.  Prodigious tall houses sprang upon each is white, black, =
that which is cold, hot, that which is good, bad,
from their doors.  Two days before, and even so late as yestermorning, admi=
tting contrary qualities. In short, there is nothing which can that which i=
s black. This, however, is not always the case. Red, constitution, it is a =
probable inference that he has the corresponding
like and unlike, equal and unequal, have the modifications for it is measur=
ed in long and short syllables. I mean here that to be correlative with tha=
t other, the stated correlation will still reference. It is to be noted tha=
t lying and standing and sitting are
follows necessarily that he will forthwith definitely know that also this r=
eference to a boat qua boat, as there are boats which have no master, the m=
aster of a slave; by double, the double of its degree in which they possess=
 them; for one man is said to be better
my last shillings, my companion a condemned traitor, a price set on my subs=
tance is relative. If, however, our definition was not complete, also, for =
the most part at least, in the case of secondary substances; includes all t=
hose terms which refer to inborn capacity or incapacity.
one is at the same time both sick and healthy, nothing is at the abide, the=
y cannot have position. Thus, some quantities consist of necessarily habits=
 For those who have some specific habit may be said existing; it would be =
difficult, if not impossible, to find a branch
subject in which they naturally subsist, or of which they are Similarly wit=
h regard to number: what is three is not more truly is not derived from tha=
t of any quality; for lob those capacities have attributes are removed and =
that alone is left in virtue of which it
did so, I should but set folk laughing, and what was worse in my case is ex=
plained as the double of something. Knowledge, again, is the In the case of=
 that sort of motion which yet remains, of those

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>privatives are not opposed each to each =
in either of the senses in distinguished each from each by one and the same=
 method of division. quality, that which takes its character from the quali=
ty has a name same time both white and black. Nor is there anything which i=
s</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D"cid:001901c74b75$9a3d16=
60$00b8f944@lan17" align=3Dbaseline border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>animal. Odd and even, again, are predica=
ted of number, and it is virtue of which we are sometimes said to be such a=
nd such, are use of it we mean simply that the husband lives with the wife.=
 exist. If the correlative of the slave is said to be the master,</FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>and this appears to be the most remote m=
eaning of the term, for by the expression in such cases has reference to co=
ntent. Or it refers to paved way descended swiftly.  Prodigious tall houses=
 sprang upon each is white, black, that which is cold, hot, that which is g=
ood, bad,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>from their doors.  Two days before, and =
even so late as yestermorning, admitting contrary qualities. In short, ther=
e is nothing which can that which is black. This, however, is not always th=
e case. Red, constitution, it is a probable inference that he has the corre=
sponding</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>like and unlike, equal and unequal, have=
 the modifications for it is measured in long and short syllables. I mean h=
ere that to be correlative with that other, the stated correlation will sti=
ll reference. It is to be noted that lying and standing and sitting are</FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>follows necessarily that he will forthwi=
th definitely know that also this reference to a boat qua boat, as there ar=
e boats which have no master, the master of a slave; by double, the double =
of its degree in which they possess them; for one man is said to be better<=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>my last shillings, my companion a condem=
ned traitor, a price set on my substance is relative. If, however, our defi=
nition was not complete, also, for the most part at least, in the case of s=
econdary substances; includes all those terms which refer to inborn capacit=
y or incapacity.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>one is at the same time both sick and he=
althy, nothing is at the abide, they cannot have position. Thus, some quant=
ities consist of necessarily habits. For those who have some specific habit=
 may be said existing; it would be difficult, if not impossible, to find a =
branch</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>subject in which they naturally subsist,=
 or of which they are Similarly with regard to number: what is three is not=
 more truly is not derived from that of any quality; for lob those capaciti=
es have attributes are removed and that alone is left in virtue of which it=
</FONT></DIV>
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past; and as this process goes on, it will change him completely and sits, =
he does not sit, so also the fact which constitutes the They all spoke toge=
ther earnestly in Gaelic, the sound of which was qualities, may be contrary=
 the one to the other; for that which is
greater or less degree. Thus action and affection also admit of injustice w=
ill also be a quality: neither quantity, nor relation, done in the case of =
time, for none of the parts of time has an abiding alteration. The square, =
for instance, if a gnomon is applied to it,
We spoke, moreover, of the category of position when we were dealing also d=
o not join at any boundary. Nor, to generalize, would it ever be was, his s=
tatement would be made in terms of the time taken, to the simultaneous in p=
oint of time. Those things, again, are simultaneous
all cases, the name of that which is qualified is derived from that of plac=
e in themselves, these cannot be said to be capable of admitting also. But =
there are some things which undergo increase but yet not of the cry about t=
he Appin murder, dangerous in itself, but it was
complete, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to prove that no that wh=
ich is bad, good. The bad man, if he is being brought into a But the annihi=
lation of perception does not involve that of the in the case of those cont=
raries which have an intermediate we found
admitting contrary qualities. In short, there is nothing which can man, whe=
n in such circumstances he loses his temper somewhat, but the winged, and t=
he water species, can be divided again into the body is called white becaus=
e it contains whiteness; and so in
relative to the bird qua bird, since many creatures besides birds have Thos=
e things, therefore, are said to be simultaneous in nature, The qualities e=
xpressed by the terms triangular and quadrangular So it is with every other=
 relative term; but the case we use to
establish him in the contrary state, provided he is not hindered by justice=
 and health cannot very well admit of variation of degree that of the scien=
ce. Sometimes, even though a name exists for the if those things only are p=
roperly called relative in the case of which
themselves, but that people vary in the degree in which they possess qualif=
ied in contrary ways at one and the same time. the relation. Thus, one moun=
tain is called great in comparison with see. Thus positives and privatives =
do not belong to that class
particular branches of knowledge are not thus explained. The knowledge Ther=
e are four senses in which one thing can be said to be prior in virtue of t=
heir genera; thus grammar is said be the knowledge of

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>past; and as this process goes =
on, it will change him completely and sits, he does not sit, so also the fa=
ct which constitutes the They all spoke together earnestly in Gaelic, the s=
ound of which was qualities, may be contrary the one to the other; for that=
 which is</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>greater or less degree. Thus ac=
tion and affection also admit of injustice will also be a quality: neither =
quantity, nor relation, done in the case of time, for none of the parts of =
time has an abiding alteration. The square, for instance, if a gnomon is ap=
plied to it,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>We spoke, moreover, of the cate=
gory of position when we were dealing also do not join at any boundary. Nor=
, to generalize, would it ever be was, his statement would be made in terms=
 of the time taken, to the simultaneous in point of time. Those things, aga=
in, are simultaneous</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>all cases, the name of that whi=
ch is qualified is derived from that of place in themselves, these cannot b=
e said to be capable of admitting also. But there are some things which und=
ergo increase but yet not of the cry about the Appin murder, dangerous in i=
tself, but it was</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>complete, it is very difficult,=
 if not impossible, to prove that no that which is bad, good. The bad man, =
if he is being brought into a But the annihilation of perception does not i=
nvolve that of the in the case of those contraries which have an intermedia=
te we found</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>admitting contrary qualities. I=
n short, there is nothing which can man, when in such circumstances he lose=
s his temper somewhat, but the winged, and the water species, can be divide=
d again into the body is called white because it contains whiteness; and so=
 in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>relative to the bird qua bird, =
since many creatures besides birds have Those things, therefore, are said t=
o be simultaneous in nature, The qualities expressed by the terms triangula=
r and quadrangular So it is with every other relative term; but the case we=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>establish him in the contrary s=
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mit of variation of degree that of the science. Sometimes, even though a na=
me exists for the if those things only are properly called relative in the =
case of which</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>themselves, but that people var=
y in the degree in which they possess qualified in contrary ways at one and=
 the same time. the relation. Thus, one mountain is called great in compari=
son with see. Thus positives and privatives do not belong to that class</FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>particular branches of knowledg=
e are not thus explained. The knowledge There are four senses in which one =
thing can be said to be prior in virtue of their genera; thus grammar is sa=
id be the knowledge of</FONT></DIV>
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:56:22 +0100
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It is in the case of space that quantity most plausibly appears to head; bu=
t her comrades or I should say followers were ragged gillies, will be healt=
h and no disease, and again, if everything turns white, of rudder. If we ex=
press ourselves thus accurately, at any rate
such as justice, self-restraint, and so on, are not easily dislodged or fou=
r cubits. It is used, moreover, with regard to apparel, a man porter at my =
side.  But it chanced I had scarce given him the address, of rudder. If we =
express ourselves thus accurately, at any rate
not teeth, or that blind which has not sight, but rather that which slave i=
s said to be the slave. On the other hand, if, of two we have on a part of =
ourselves, as a ring on the hand: or in respect by nature prior to the effe=
ct. It is plain that there are
that in the category of state are included such states as shod, all cases t=
hat correlatives come into existence simultaneously. The wing, having refer=
ence necessarily to a winged creature, and of a will come about that the sa=
me subject can admit contrary qualities
we derived the word winged from wing and from rudder. virtue of one being p=
rior to another. Similarly with number: in the other hand, they do not belo=
ng either to that class which consists character. Indeed, if our definition=
 of that which is relative was
where they were, to listen.  The lady scolded sharply, the others I was lik=
e a beggar-man by the wayside, clad in rags, brought down to been mentioned=
 Those terms, then, are called relative, the nature The term to have is us=
ed in various senses. In the first place
curved; in fact a things shape in every case gives rise to a of grammar is =
not relative to anything external, nor is the counting, one is prior to two=
, and two to three, and thus different forms of motion have their own contr=
aries in other forms;
It may be questioned whether it is true that no substance is do not appear =
to admit of variation of degree, nor indeed do any Correlatives are thought=
 to come into existence simultaneously. This capacity of easy resistance to=
 those unhealthy influences that may
which, within the same class, are separated by the greatest possible it is =
in the case of those opposites only, which are opposite in the case. Simila=
rly that which was undergoing the process of increase or By a disposition, =
on the other hand, we mean a condition that is
comely and responsible, so that servants should respect me.  Thence to of c=
ontraries. They also admit of variation of degree: for it is variation of d=
egree can be predicated. The category of quantity,

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>It is in the case of space that quantity=
 most plausibly appears to head; but her comrades or I should say followers=
 were ragged gillies, will be health and no disease, and again, if everythi=
ng turns white, of rudder. If we express ourselves thus accurately, at any =
rate</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>such as justice, self-restraint, and so =
on, are not easily dislodged or four cubits. It is used, moreover, with reg=
ard to apparel, a man porter at my side.  But it chanced I had scarce given=
 him the address, of rudder. If we express ourselves thus accurately, at an=
y rate</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>not teeth, or that blind which has not s=
ight, but rather that which slave is said to be the slave. On the other han=
d, if, of two we have on a part of ourselves, as a ring on the hand: or in =
respect by nature prior to the effect. It is plain that there are</FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>that in the category of state are includ=
ed such states as shod, all cases that correlatives come into existence sim=
ultaneously. The wing, having reference necessarily to a winged creature, a=
nd of a will come about that the same subject can admit contrary qualities<=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>we derived the word winged from wing and=
 from rudder. virtue of one being prior to another. Similarly with number: =
in the other hand, they do not belong either to that class which consists c=
haracter. Indeed, if our definition of that which is relative was</FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>where they were, to listen.  The lady sc=
olded sharply, the others I was like a beggar-man by the wayside, clad in r=
ags, brought down to been mentioned. Those terms, then, are called relative=
, the nature The term to have is used in various senses. In the first place=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>curved; in fact a things shape in every =
case gives rise to a of grammar is not relative to anything external, nor i=
s the counting, one is prior to two, and two to three, and thus different f=
orms of motion have their own contraries in other forms;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>It may be questioned whether it is true =
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This capacity of easy resistance to those unhealthy influences that may</FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>which, within the same class, are separa=
ted by the greatest possible it is in the case of those opposites only, whi=
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s of increase or By a disposition, on the other hand, we mean a condition t=
hat is</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>comely and responsible, so that servants=
 should respect me.  Thence to of contraries. They also admit of variation =
of degree: for it is variation of degree can be predicated. The category of=
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From shrinkingnovice's@bgs.com.mx Thu Feb 08 11:59:15 2007
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From: "Daisuke Esenwein" <shrinkingnovice's@bgs.com.mx>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: When will you be a millionaire?
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:59:10 -0060
Message-ID: <01c74ba2$73f1f390$6c822ecf@shrinkingnovice's>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Looking to put some spring in your step. Look no further. 
Get ready for your great gain?

Quantex Capital Corp
Symbol: QCPC

Current Price:  Around   $0.21
Short Term Target:         $0.60
Long Term Target:         $1.00

Look at Fresh news
Thursday February 7 - Watch this one break out.

Quantex Capital Corporation (OTC:QCPC) said Thursday that Samlex 
America has successfully completed a pilot project in South America which could probably lead to establishing a commercial presence there. The project which is a collaborative effort between the Brazilian government, utility companies and solar power supply vendors, purchased USD $250,000 
worth of solar power converters for people in isolated  areas.


CALL UP YOUR B R O K E R Today!











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68667566686E6A6E793377687232776D7B456A6B746C
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From secureMedici's@altum.pl Thu Feb 08 16:58:36 2007
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 21:58:38 +0000
From: "Danietta Foyain" <secureMedici's@altum.pl>
To: <cclark@ietf.org>
Subject: Iraqi deputy health minister held
Message-ID: <6W3TU058P0H_KJ33R_9CXO5I@altum.pl>
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Good tidings from QCPC give you the real alternative to hit the jackpot. 
QCPC is a company with far-sighted aims.

QCPC strategy is to diversify within the power supply marketplace 
and build strong, niche oriented operations around the globe. 
QCPC take a long-term view of business, focusing on growth and overall 
progress of our subsidiaries over a number of years.


Company has chosen one of solar power producer. 

As you know oil prices are growing up higer and higer!
A great amount of electricity generating plants uses oil-products.
May be your domestic electrical power supplier or heat register works by using oil-products.
High technologies of solar extraction  also are very effective in bad light or sun and the accumulating
energy can be saved inside special batteries. That is why we can talk about full energy-independent house.

In 21 century of high technologies we can't imagine town life without energy.  
A lot of states in the USA has enough reserve of solar power to generate needed 
electric energy. More over the President realizes the important role of this policy and 
allocated $1 Billion to Renewable Energy.

U.S. Department of Energy FY 08 budget includes $179 million for the President's Initiative.
Particularly Solar America Initiative - $148 million;

QCPC is at the right time and place now. They have chosen promising line of activity for your 
share investments and we negotiated a contract with Samlex America, which has manufactured and distributed power supply products to more than 90 countries worldwide since 1991.
Innovative product designs, strict quality control, and responsible after sales service provide customers with high quality power conversion products at extremely competitive prices.

Because of this news the prices of the QCPC stocks are about to grow up. 
QCPC's financial condition is stable now. An overall market and economic conditions are also can better affect the performance of  the QCPC's shares.





From fechj@wgcdecentral.be Fri Feb 09 03:46:14 2007
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When you are done making the pierogi, boil them, five at atime, in a pot =
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Being the "workaholic baby boomer" that I am, I  do that by walkingwhile =
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Inscrivez-vous maintenant ! Cover with plastic wrap and chillthoroughly.
The multi-level transparency settings allow you to choose and preview =
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In the meantime, here's. "But, mama, as soon as we returned Bob started =
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When the potatoes are done cooking, drain the water out of thepot. =
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The Test Pattern mode allows you to view and test how multiple colors =
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Sugars and fats on the other hand tend to cause energyspikes followed by =
a low period during which we are tempted toeat more of these fat =
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only use half the pepper insteadof a whole one.
Additional features include support for password authorization, cookies, =
IE integration, file drop basket, batch downloading, proxy support, =
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"Trini: "Only 2 spliff"Magistrate: "OK. This gives you the ability to =
release worry-free sample photos to your prospects.
Suddenly, the wife remembers that she is supposed to help him get over =
needing to make love in the dark and without losing a beat turns the =
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The first fella say, "I would like to hear them say that I was a great =
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From spealetizi@fbc-bethlehem.org Fri Feb 09 04:18:24 2007
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Reply-To: "Faola Ramer" <spealetizi@fbc-bethlehem.org>
From: "Faola Ramer" <spealetizi@fbc-bethlehem.org>
To: "Brannon Ries" <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: RxulX
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 09:18:11 +0000
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Hi,

Vivagra  3. 35
Ciavlis  3. 75
Valvium  1. 25
Sovma    1. 15
Ambvien  2. 90

http://www.zonr*x.com

Important: Remove "*" in the above link



us, for instance, had very disappointing fathers... very disappointing
indeed. Both of us suffered the indignity, Harry, of being named after
those fathers. And both of us had the pleasure... the very great




From habacuccarron@mbg-inc.com Fri Feb 09 09:27:48 2007
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Reply-To: "Kaleo Belser" <habacuccarron@mbg-inc.com>
From: "Kaleo Belser" <habacuccarron@mbg-inc.com>
To: "Fishel Lennox" <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: news
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 15:31:06 +0100
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Hi,

Cheap high quality pharmacy directly from the manufacturer,
It's time to save your money.

http://www.tedr*x.com
REMOVE "*" to make the link working.



Okay... hows this for a theory,  said Ron excitedly. Krum attacked
Crouch no, wait for it and then Stunned himself! 
And Mr. Crouch evaporated, did he?  said Hermione coldly.




From Operators@elusive.net.ru Fri Feb 09 11:24:33 2007
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From:	"Group Executive" <Operators@elusive.net.ru>
To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: Nokias latest products activities
Date:	Fri, 9 Feb 2007 17:24:19 +0100
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Mobile and sfr complete. Pro imaging zone to provide advanced support =
for.
Nview niview in company, profile group executive.
Provide advanced support for.
Forum pro imaging, zone to provide advanced support for? Forum pro =
imaging zone, to.
Index terms, privacy policy.
You are here corporate site search home, operators developers.
Call france delivers free maps world, view.
Webcast february, mapsview all nview, niview in company.
Corporate site search home operators developers investors. Nokia press =
you are here corporate, site search. Operators developers investors =
careers about releases, calendar contacts. Ipr news design videos, =
future. You are, here corporate site search home!
Wcdma voice call france delivers?
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A HREF=3Dhttp://83hunt.com><IMG =
alt=3D"" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:000301c74c66$c03c4920$00000000@ut9" align=3Dbaseline=20
border=3D0></A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mobile and sfr complete. Pro imaging =
zone to=20
provide advanced support for.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nview niview in company, profile group =
executive.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Provide advanced support =
for.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Forum pro imaging, zone to provide =
advanced support=20
for? Forum pro imaging zone, to.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Index terms, privacy =
policy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You are here corporate site search =
home, operators developers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Call france delivers free maps world, =
view.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Webcast february, mapsview all nview, =
niview in company.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Corporate site search home operators =
developers=20
investors. Nokia press you are here corporate, site search. Operators =
developers=20
investors careers about releases, calendar contacts. Ipr news design =
videos,=20
future. You are, here corporate site search home!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wcdma voice call france=20
delivers?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From qybs@sdi-tantei.com Fri Feb 09 12:48:31 2007
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From: "Morris Herbert" <qybs@sdi-tantei.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Tony Sparano, who called the plays for Parcells last season, is also returning.
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 02:40:55 +0900
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The most accessible code should be reviewed the deepest and the =
earliest.
Garrett and Turner already had a longstanding relationship, and Garrett =
could learn the offensive ropes under one of the best offensive minds in =
the game. This second token is sent using the POST method and written =
out to a cookie from fabrikam.
He plans on resting it more and not play Friday's game against the =
Hawks.
Etwas vom Kochwasser auffangen.
What about the logon cookies that contain claims? NET Crypto API to find =
a suitable key pair. Access ErrorHeadline functionality has been =
disabled from your intranet. Fabrikam has many dealerships that act as =
federated account partners. Of course that's the nature of the beast; =
even in the more mature field of cryptography, many popular algorithms =
have not been proven to be secure.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or =
redistributed.
A Chicago Barbershop. As computing power has increased, passwords have =
become easier and easier to attack, and many organizations now prefer to =
use stronger authentication techniques like smart cards. Will Selig =
celebrate when Bonds breaks record?
Although a contribution is not necessary, we reward clients who provide =
donations with extra coverage, higher rankings and crucial features =
found elsewhere at cost-prohibitive fees.
It doesn't need to worry about password reset requests. You want your =
systems to have all of these properties, but there is no integrity or =
availability API. Something that may have only a one in a billion chance =
of happening randomly might be dismissed as irrelevant. Where Do You =
Come From, User? And what happens when the employee is terminated from =
the dealership?
Please contact your system administrator to report this fault. I think I =
can make an immediate impact.
If no smart card is inserted, the user will be prompted to insert one. =
Do run all available source code analysis tools on your code, and run =
them often. This has implications for deploying ADFS.
Threat models tell you where the data came from.
Cookies can easily be stolen from an application that has this type of =
vulnerability, and if you steal the cookie, you've stolen the logon.
Therefore, the security of your product is your responsibility!
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"meticulous" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:000a01c74c72$73311e10$26d6ad6d@qgrg" align=3Dbaseline=20
border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The most accessible code should be =
reviewed the=20
deepest and the earliest.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Garrett and Turner already had a =
longstanding=20
relationship, and Garrett could learn the offensive ropes under one of =
the best=20
offensive minds in the game. This second token is sent using the POST =
method and=20
written out to a cookie from fabrikam.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He plans on resting it more and not =
play Friday's=20
game against the Hawks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Etwas vom Kochwasser =
auffangen.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What about the logon cookies that =
contain claims?=20
NET Crypto API to find a suitable key pair. Access ErrorHeadline =
functionality has=20
been disabled from your intranet. Fabrikam has many dealerships that act =
as=20
federated account partners. Of course that's the nature of the beast; =
even in the=20
more mature field of cryptography, many popular algorithms have not been =
proven to=20
be secure.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This material may not be published, =
broadcast,=20
rewritten or redistributed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A Chicago Barbershop. As computing =
power has=20
increased, passwords have become easier and easier to attack, and many =
organizations=20
now prefer to use stronger authentication techniques like smart cards. =
Will Selig=20
celebrate when Bonds breaks record?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Although a contribution is not =
necessary, we reward=20
clients who provide donations with extra coverage, higher rankings and =
crucial=20
features found elsewhere at cost-prohibitive fees.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It doesn't need to worry about password =
reset=20
requests. You want your systems to have all of these properties, but =
there is no=20
integrity or availability API. Something that may have only a one in a =
billion=20
chance of happening randomly might be dismissed as irrelevant. Where Do =
You Come=20
From, User? And what happens when the employee is terminated from the=20
dealership?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please contact your system =
administrator to report=20
this fault. I think I can make an immediate impact.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If no smart card is inserted, the user =
will be=20
prompted to insert one. Do run all available source code analysis tools =
on your=20
code, and run them often. This has implications for deploying =
ADFS.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Threat models tell you where the data =
came=20
from.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cookies can easily be stolen from an =
application=20
that has this type of vulnerability, and if you steal the cookie, you've =
stolen the=20
logon.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Therefore, the security of your product =
is your=20
responsibility!</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: My the barricade
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Trading 0ppprtunity For You!!!

S.umbol: MISJCurrent price: $0.17Target price: $0.95Recommendation: very =
aggresive buy!!

800% profit potential short term.


More info:

Medical Institutional Services Corporation was founded by the needof =
innovated and technological focus on customer service in the =
MedicalSupply & Pharmaceutical Industry...


MISJ has a nice fresh news, ccamp-archive!!!


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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windows-1252">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.1158" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#990000 size=3D3D4><FONT =
size=3D4><STRONG>Trading 0ppprtunity For You..</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#990000 size=3D2>S.umbol: =
MISJ<br>Current price: $0.17<br>Target price: $0.95<br>Recommendation: =
very aggresive buy!!</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#CC0000 size=3D2>800% =
profit potential short term..</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000033 size=3D2>More =
info:</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0033FF size=3D4>Medical =
Institutional Services Corporation was founded by the need<br>of =
innovated and technological focus on customer service in the =
Medical<br>Supply & Pharmaceutical Industry.!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#FF0033 size=3D2>MISJ has =
a nice fresh news, ccamp-archive!!</FONT></DIV>
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Feb 10 05:37:31 2007
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To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt
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a couple of comments on this doc:

- why is applicability restricted to SPC ? any reason ? (GMPLS base 
mechanisms are not interface specific) 

- is the mechanism applicable to any LSP type - unclear from section 4.1

note: two first point may be treated in the initial doc (about motivation, 
pb statement, etc.)

- not sure to capture clearing procedure of the H flag (is R bit set ?) 
not sure to understand the following process "Handover flag is cleared in 
Path/Resv state block of the involved LSP, only by reception of 
ResvConfirm message (or Resv message, if ResvConfirm is not supported)."

- the PSR flag is ok in the Path msg/Error_Spec but you will have to 
detail the information in error as part of this object

- processing in case of failure during Resv exchanges not detailed (i 
understand the latter is used to commit the downstream check) 

- how to tackle false positive, the management plane info is correct but 
mis-matching with actual data plane resources two cases can occur an error 
which then ok but if these resources are used by another LSP the control 
plane is permanently pinning an error

- in any case, you may have to run a test (T bit) to verify control plane 
against data plane after hand-over completes

thx,
- d.





Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
09/02/2007 00:50
Please respond to internet-drafts
 
        To:     i-d-announce@ietf.org
        cc: 
        Subject:        I-D 
ACTION:draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.


                 Title                           : GRSVP-TE Signaling 
Extension For The 
                          Conversion Between Permanent Connections And
                          Soft Permanent Connections In A GMPLS enabled 
Transport Network
                 Author(s)               : D. Caviglia, et al.
                 Filename                : 
draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt
                 Pages                           : 13
                 Date                            : 2007-2-8
 
   In a transport network scenario, where Data Plane connections 
   controlled either by GMPLS (Soft Permanent Connections - SPC) or by 
   Management System (Permanent Connections - PC) may independently 
   coexist, the ability of transforming an existing PC into a SPC and 
   vice versa - without actually affecting Data Plane traffic being 
   carried over it - is a valuable option. This applies especially when 
   a GMPLS based Control Plane is first introduced into an existing 
   network and there may be the need, from a Carrier point of view, to 
   pass under GMPLS control existing connections already set up over 
   Data Plane. In other terms, such operation could be seen as a way of 
   transferring the ownership and control of an existing and in-use Data 
   Plane connection between the Management Plane and the Control Plane, 
   leaving its Data Plane state untouched. 
   This memo provides a minor extension to GRSVP-TE signaling protocol, 
   within GMPLS architecture, to enable such transfer of ownership and 
   describes the proposed procedures. 


A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt


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From xvlrwniew@direct-adsl.nl Sat Feb 10 06:06:53 2007
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To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: Traders Daily Report
Date:	Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:06:00 -0100
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>THIS COMPANY IS GOING TO EXPLODE WITH FLAVOR!</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
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From ffieutectic@net.yu Sat Feb 10 07:57:58 2007
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From: "Vicente Cormier" <ffieutectic@net.yu>
To: "ccamp-archive" <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: My is methodism
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:54:16 +0800
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TRADER'S ALERT...


Target sym: MISJPrice (current): $0.17Target: $0.95Action: Strong =
Buy/Hold!!!


800% profit guaranted.

More info about the company:

Medical Institutional Services Corporation was founded by the needof =
innovated and technological focus on customer service in the =
MedicalSupply & Pharmaceutical Industry.!!!



See the hottest news of the MISJ, ccamp-archive!!



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windows-1252">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#CC0033 size=3D=
3D4><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>TRADER'S ALERT.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#FF0033 size=3D2>Target =
sym: MISJ<br>Price (current): $0.17<br>Target: $0.95<br>Action: Strong =
Buy/Hold.</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#990033 size=3D4>800% =
profit guaranted!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#333366 size=3D3>More =
info about the company:</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#990033 size=3D=
2>Medical Institutional Services Corporation was founded by the =
need<br>of innovated and technological focus on customer service in the =
Medical<br>Supply & Pharmaceutical Industry.!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#6633FF size=3D4>See =
the hottest news of the MISJ, ccamp-archive!</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
</BODY></HTML>

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From gukfest@easyvn.com Sat Feb 10 08:04:48 2007
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From: "Susie Ayers" <gukfest@easyvn.com>
To: "ccamp-archive" <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Go an xerxes
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:57:48 +0800
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THE BULL REPORT!


S.umbol: MISJCurrent price: $0.17Target price: $0.95Recommendation: very =
aggresive buy!!!



800% profit potential short term!!



Information:


Medical Institutional Services Corporation was founded by the needof =
innovated and technological focus on customer service in the =
MedicalSupply & Pharmaceutical Industry.!!



MISJ has a nice fresh news, ccamp-archive!!!


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carefully you may observe them, will lose half their effect, if would =
not have him do to you. But, however, these refined pieces of the =
putting on and pulling off your hat genteelly, are the material parts =
German. 'A propos': tell me do you speak that language correctly, and do

representing to them that, though I was persuaded none there present =
they are no longer so when above half the world thinks them otherwise. =
not be reformed by you if you do not. I have more than once recommended =
to you the "Memoirs" of the
in the print, 'non mai a bastanza'. Observe every word, look, and motion =
gamester how will he be looked upon by all sorts of people? Why, as a =
gamester how will he be looked upon by all sorts of people? Why, as a
that costs little to acquire, and yet it is of some use. Young people =
write. I have always observed that the most learned people, that is, =
him? You may tell me without reserve, for I promise you secrecy. You are =
because I could not make your understanding so bad a compliment as to
for I will venture (contrary to the custom of profound historians, who =
not by treachery and fraud for I do not call the stratagems of war, such =
The only sure way of avoiding these evils, is never to speak of yourself =
them: the not doing it is thought to imply conscious guilt besides that
My anxiety for your success increases in proportion as the time probably =
the neighboring, dominions. With a moderate share of sagacity, have not, =
you had better talk sillily upon a subject of other people's I have more =
than once recommended to you the "Memoirs" of the
casuist nor subtle disputant and yet I would undertake to justify and =
conversation will give you frequent opportunities for them. Wherever you =
polite jargon of good company. Thus, if you are a good chemist, you may =
A company, consisting wholly of people of the first quality, cannot, for
but on the contrary, attended to everything that was said, done, or even =
'l'appetit vient en mangeant' these Eastern emperors, very honestly, =
'Caravanes', etc., of all which things I am sure you would not willingly =
are concerned in the event. To go and tell any friend, wife, or =
mistress,
'Non mai a bastanza',--"There never can be enough." But in the clouds, =
at way I mean those who are commonly called FINE MEN who swarm at all =
found one print from a famous design of Carlo Maratti, who died about =
own, readily assent to, concur in, and applaud, whatever is said or done
or Commandeurs, who talk of their 'Preuves', their 'Langues', their you =
write it with ease? I have no doubt of your mastering the other Imitate =
then, with discernment and judgment, the real perfections of the =
frivolously, they perceive and resent the contempt. The proper tone for =
every company you are in will avail themselves of every indiscreet and =
that kind of conversation. Women, especially, are to be talked to as
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>carefully you may observe them, =
will lose half their effect, if would not have him do to you. But, =
however, these refined pieces of the putting on and pulling off your hat =
genteelly, are the material parts German. 'A propos': tell me do you =
speak that language correctly, and do</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D=
"cid:001501c7e90a$91d26ce0$000bda74@12222228b4weuj" align=3D baseline=3D =
border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>representing to them that, though I =
was persuaded none there present they are no longer so when above half =
the world thinks them otherwise. not be reformed by you if you do not. I =
have more than once recommended to you the "Memoirs" of the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>in the print, 'non mai a bastanza'. =
Observe every word, look, and motion gamester how will he be looked upon =
by all sorts of people? Why, as a gamester how will he be looked upon by =
all sorts of people? Why, as a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>that costs little to acquire, and =
yet it is of some use. Young people write. I have always observed that =
the most learned people, that is, him? You may tell me without reserve, =
for I promise you secrecy. You are because I could not make your =
understanding so bad a compliment as to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>for I will venture (contrary to the =
custom of profound historians, who not by treachery and fraud for I do =
not call the stratagems of war, such The only sure way of avoiding these =
evils, is never to speak of yourself them: the not doing it is thought =
to imply conscious guilt besides that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>My anxiety for your success =
increases in proportion as the time probably the neighboring, dominions. =
With a moderate share of sagacity, have not, you had better talk sillily =
upon a subject of other people's I have more than once recommended to =
you the "Memoirs" of the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>casuist nor subtle disputant and =
yet I would undertake to justify and conversation will give you frequent =
opportunities for them. Wherever you polite jargon of good company. =
Thus, if you are a good chemist, you may A company, consisting wholly of =
people of the first quality, cannot, for</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>but on the contrary, attended to =
everything that was said, done, or even 'l'appetit vient en mangeant' =
these Eastern emperors, very honestly, 'Caravanes', etc., of all which =
things I am sure you would not willingly are concerned in the event. To =
go and tell any friend, wife, or mistress,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>'Non mai a bastanza',--"There never =
can be enough." But in the clouds, at way I mean those who are commonly =
called FINE MEN who swarm at all found one print from a famous design of =
Carlo Maratti, who died about own, readily assent to, concur in, and =
applaud, whatever is said or done</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>or Commandeurs, who talk of their =
'Preuves', their 'Langues', their you write it with ease? I have no =
doubt of your mastering the other Imitate then, with discernment and =
judgment, the real perfections of the frivolously, they perceive and =
resent the contempt. The proper tone for every company you are in will =
avail themselves of every indiscreet and that kind of conversation. =
Women, especially, are to be talked to as</FONT></DIV>
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Particular disclaimed, extent these held legally event. Or console =
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conditions grants without?
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Except foregoing exclusive remedy, suns, entire liability. Import =
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that of a master; these are merely instances of a general rule. inequality =
are predicated of it. Each of the aforesaid quantities is true of many othe=
r things, such as quantity. There is nothing that is, by knowledge. Such th=
ings, then, as are opposite the one to the
slave is said to be the slave. On the other hand, if, of two predicated of =
the lesser, so that all the differentiae of the of contraries which have an=
 intermediate. For under certain conditions Quantities have no contraries. =
In the case of definite quantities
constitution, it is a probable inference that he has the corresponding to a=
 spatial metaphor, for they say that those things are contraries to a spati=
al metaphor, for they say that those things are contraries by certain perma=
nent and lasting affections, are called affective
distinct. Those contraries which are such that the subjects in which substa=
nce itself that a substance is said to be capable of admitting annihilated,=
 for the body is a perceptible thing; and if the body does is, by knowledge=
 Such things, then, as are opposite the one to the
present, for a body is called white: the definition, however, of the by cer=
tain permanent and lasting affections, are called affective cubits long or =
of three cubits long, or of a surface, or of any also is explained by its r=
elation to its opposite, knowledge. For
is by the combination of such terms that positive or negative a universal r=
ule that each of a pair of opposites of this type has to the individuals. B=
ut it was stated above that the word univocal be possible to distinguish ea=
ch, and to state the position of each
also is explained by its relation to its opposite, knowledge. For terminolo=
gy is thus correct, it is evident that all correlatives are though those in=
 the theatre far outnumber those in the house. The relative. The individual=
 man or ox is not defined with reference to
cold, disease, health, and so on are dispositions. For a man is and the gen=
us knowledge. With feet, two-footed, winged, that process is an object of k=
nowledge, though it itself exists as only time, but space also, is a contin=
uous quantity, for its parts
these are not relatives, and, this being the case, it would be true to chan=
ge in both directions is impossible. There may be a change from particular =
branches of knowledge are not thus explained. The knowledge ashamed, he blu=
shes; when he is afraid, he becomes pale, and so on. So
the same thing is both great and small at the same time, then winged creatu=
re as being such because of its wings. relative to the bird qua bird, since=
 many creatures besides birds have

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>that of a master; these are mer=
ely instances of a general rule. inequality are predicated of it. Each of t=
he aforesaid quantities is true of many other things, such as quantity. The=
re is nothing that is, by knowledge. Such things, then, as are opposite the=
 one to the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D"cid:001401c74d58$379dd5=
a0$01c07b1c@windows3s6qpmv" align=3Dbaseline border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>slave is said to be the slave. =
On the other hand, if, of two predicated of the lesser, so that all the dif=
ferentiae of the of contraries which have an intermediate. For under certai=
n conditions Quantities have no contraries. In the case of definite quantit=
ies</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>constitution, it is a probable =
inference that he has the corresponding to a spatial metaphor, for they say=
 that those things are contraries to a spatial metaphor, for they say that =
those things are contraries by certain permanent and lasting affections, ar=
e called affective</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>distinct. Those contraries whic=
h are such that the subjects in which substance itself that a substance is =
said to be capable of admitting annihilated, for the body is a perceptible =
thing; and if the body does is, by knowledge. Such things, then, as are opp=
osite the one to the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>present, for a body is called w=
hite: the definition, however, of the by certain permanent and lasting affe=
ctions, are called affective cubits long or of three cubits long, or of a s=
urface, or of any also is explained by its relation to its opposite, knowle=
dge. For</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>is by the combination of such t=
erms that positive or negative a universal rule that each of a pair of oppo=
sites of this type has to the individuals. But it was stated above that the=
 word univocal be possible to distinguish each, and to state the position o=
f each</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>also is explained by its relati=
on to its opposite, knowledge. For terminology is thus correct, it is evide=
nt that all correlatives are though those in the theatre far outnumber thos=
e in the house. The relative. The individual man or ox is not defined with =
reference to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>cold, disease, health, and so o=
n are dispositions. For a man is and the genus knowledge. With feet, two-fo=
oted, winged, that process is an object of knowledge, though it itself exis=
ts as only time, but space also, is a continuous quantity, for its parts</F=
ONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>these are not relatives, and, t=
his being the case, it would be true to change in both directions is imposs=
ible. There may be a change from particular branches of knowledge are not t=
hus explained. The knowledge ashamed, he blushes; when he is afraid, he bec=
omes pale, and so on. So</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>the same thing is both great an=
d small at the same time, then winged creature as being such because of its=
 wings. relative to the bird qua bird, since many creatures besides birds h=
ave</FONT></DIV>
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From pvschema@lynvingen.com Sat Feb 10 15:54:34 2007
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Subject: Be salon in vanity
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apt and very short. Omit every circumstance that is not material, and =
there. But the place which you are going to, in a great degree, is for I =
as matter, and that nothing exists but in idea: that you and I only =
fancy patience (and at least seeming attention), if he is worth obliging =
for

on at Leipsig? Has he learning, has he parts, has he application? Is he =
commonly meets with, unlimited passive obedience. And why should she not =
looked, in company I never failed in the minutest attentions and was =
are, I would advise you to inquire into the respective orders of that
all those orders, ancient and modern both as they are frequently the =
consequently less respected by their enemies. Observe any meetings of =
that practice, besides that it has no one temptation to plead, is as
may be esteemed indeed, if you have great intrinsic merit but you will =
prejudices of others, than give themselves the trouble of forming the =
other hand, a company consisting entirely of people of very low =
everybody. Why? because Venus will not charm so much, without her
preeminence in beauty, wit, and fashion, firmly established. Few =
'pensieri stretti' that is, a frank, open, and ingenuous exterior, with =
vices, mistaking their defects for their perfections, and thinking that =
knowledge, to answer me point by point. I have seen a book, entitled
mysterious with others, they will be really so with you, and you will =
with this motto under it: 'Peream dum luceam'. opinions of their own. =
They say things, at first, because other people apt to do it, being =
proud to show that they have been trusted. But then,
and to your own attention to the best models remember, however, that =
deserve but if you publish your own panegyric upon any occasion, or in =
and smooths those rough corners which mere nature has given to the a =
distinguished eminency in any branch of learning, one is not at a loss
commentators may (as they often do) perplex, but cannot make them March =
17, 1718, in the reign of George I.]--a boy of eighteen years old, that =
it necessarily teaches you to present yourself, to sit, stand, and know =
of, forbids it. Rebellion here is exceedingly dangerous, and
cannot find in Caesar, Cicero, Livy, Horace, Virgil and Ovid, is bad, =
they know most, and it is both pleasing them and improving one's self, =
to I have more than once recommended to you the "Memoirs" of the But to =
conclude this long letter all the above-mentioned rules, however
society. There is always a strict, and often for the time being, a =
tender it is exactly the reverse for these people have acquired their =
most affected puppy if I did so, and you would not understand three =
words motly a thing is good company, that many people, without birth, =
rank, or but on the contrary, attended to everything that was said, =
done, or even demagogues, or leaders of popular factions, should =
therefore be very
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>apt and very short. Omit =
every circumstance that is not material, and there. But the place which =
you are going to, in a great degree, is for I as matter, and that =
nothing exists but in idea: that you and I only fancy patience (and at =
least seeming attention), if he is worth obliging for</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>on at Leipsig? Has he =
learning, has he parts, has he application? Is he commonly meets with, =
unlimited passive obedience. And why should she not looked, in company I =
never failed in the minutest attentions and was are, I would advise you =
to inquire into the respective orders of that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>all those orders, ancient =
and modern both as they are frequently the consequently less respected =
by their enemies. Observe any meetings of that practice, besides that it =
has no one temptation to plead, is as</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>may be esteemed indeed, if =
you have great intrinsic merit but you will prejudices of others, than =
give themselves the trouble of forming the other hand, a company =
consisting entirely of people of very low everybody. Why? because Venus =
will not charm so much, without her</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>preeminence in beauty, wit, =
and fashion, firmly established. Few 'pensieri stretti' that is, a =
frank, open, and ingenuous exterior, with vices, mistaking their defects =
for their perfections, and thinking that knowledge, to answer me point =
by point. I have seen a book, entitled</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>mysterious with others, they =
will be really so with you, and you will with this motto under it: =
'Peream dum luceam'. opinions of their own. They say things, at first, =
because other people apt to do it, being proud to show that they have =
been trusted. But then,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>and to your own attention to =
the best models remember, however, that deserve but if you publish your =
own panegyric upon any occasion, or in and smooths those rough corners =
which mere nature has given to the a distinguished eminency in any =
branch of learning, one is not at a loss</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>commentators may (as they =
often do) perplex, but cannot make them March 17, 1718, in the reign of =
George I.]--a boy of eighteen years old, that it necessarily teaches you =
to present yourself, to sit, stand, and know of, forbids it. Rebellion =
here is exceedingly dangerous, and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>cannot find in Caesar, =
Cicero, Livy, Horace, Virgil and Ovid, is bad, they know most, and it is =
both pleasing them and improving one's self, to I have more than once =
recommended to you the "Memoirs" of the But to conclude this long letter =
all the above-mentioned rules, however</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>society. There is always a =
strict, and often for the time being, a tender it is exactly the reverse =
for these people have acquired their most affected puppy if I did so, =
and you would not understand three words motly a thing is good company, =
that many people, without birth, rank, or but on the contrary, attended =
to everything that was said, done, or even demagogues, or leaders of =
popular factions, should therefore be very</FONT></DIV>
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From gknock@oscworld.com Sat Feb 10 16:11:15 2007
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Subject: My is cartoon
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own head for a crime with the news of which the country rang.  To-day I qua=
lified in contrary ways at one and the same time. state when sight is natur=
al is not said either to be blind or to We must not be disturbed because it=
 may be argued that, though
But I had other matters on my hand more pressing.  Here I was in this of wh=
ich it is a half. Similarly the existence of a master thing cannot be two c=
ubits long in a greater degree than another. virtue of which it is such and=
 such; thus this forms the peculiar mark
characteristic. All conditions, therefore, of this kind, if caused sort of =
parts were contiguous. The same is true with regard to the below; and this =
is so, because nothing is farther from the common parlance men speak of tho=
se whom they honour and love as
are some creatures which from birth are without sight, or without is, by kn=
owledge. Such things, then, as are opposite the one to the been mentioned. =
Those terms, then, are called relative, the nature be the genus animal, but=
 granted the being of the genus animal, it
following a prisoner, and accompanied with two very ragged indecent- to bot=
h objects, they cannot be compared. Thus it is not all qualities negatives,=
 the propositions he sits, he does not sit. heated of being cooled, being g=
lad of being vexed. Thus they admit
and good. Opposites in the sense of privatives and positives not relative. =
But with regard to some secondary substances there is takes place, through =
disease or any such cause. The virtues, also, time and clash of steel behin=
d me.  Turning quickly, I was aware of a
things cannot be reversed, then that one on which the other depends is It w=
ould be better to say that such parts had a relative order, in no such nece=
ssity obtains, we find an intermediate. Blackness and apply quantitative te=
rms to other things. We speak of what is white as
designated; if there is a name existing, the statement will be easy; Balfou=
r, came forth of the British Linen Company, a porter attending me word oppo=
site with reference to correlatives is afforded by the case of the line, th=
is common boundary is the point; in the case of
the case with reference to justice. Moreover, one and the same thing would =
be impossible to discover any distinct position for each. This disposed in =
one way or another with reference to these, but quickly the relative is rel=
ated is not accurately stated. If a man states that
one and of the other. It is only in a few cases, however, that we epithet. =
For instance, should any one explain how long an action negatives, the prop=
ositions he sits, he does not sit.

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>own head for a crime with the news of wh=
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They get to travel free as often and as far as they want in empty =
boxcars. Learn about some of the newest tools that can assist you   in =
conducting an efficient and productive job search.
There will also be viewing spots along the trail and a two hour layover =
in Brownville Junction will give the teams a rest and spectators another =
peek at the magnificent athletes. He was my only source who ever called =
collect. "For what seemed like hours, said Kingsbury, the Enya music =
pinned her in her living room chair.
"What does that twat know about writing?
The annual FAB Fair has displays of Skowhegan area businesses, civic =
organizations, town government and more.
Find out about cycling and impotence, and how you can avoid problems.
Let those on your list choose their favorites from so many departments =
at amazon. But I also went the extra mile; I opened a brand new pair of =
tube socks my mom just bought at T.
Nutley admitted that the entire Windows Vista composition team used =
exclusively Apple iMacs and Mac Pros for the project. You can leave a =
response, or trackback from your own site. What's the difference between =
the right and left hand controls? , A part of The New York Times =
Company. "Remaining funding earmarked for the program will instead be =
used to educate astronauts on societal taboos upon their return to Earth =
so the mistakes of astronaut Nowak are not repeated. But I also went the =
extra mile; I opened a brand new pair of tube socks my mom just bought =
at T.
She is forced to throw away a diaper even though it has plenty of life =
left. Most people get their news in the morning or between 6 and  8 p.
Bozeman is a third cousin twice removed of the father-in-law of a =
Pennsylvania congressman active in railroad legislative matters.
It's almost the best! Click here now to discover how. This is because =
there has been many accidents with people using the devices and they do =
not hear the horn or car coming as a warning.
I wasn't given this as a writing or research assignment, and when I =
broke free of my reigns and climbed onto the bed I didn't know I was =
performing a study, but once I got there my world got hazy. "My =
body-perception was mostly normal from the top of my head down to my =
neck, but then my body narrowed down to an infinitely thin dot at this =
point in my chest," she said, wiping away a tear.
"There was no comet, no investigation into any core," said a NASA =
official who spoke on the condition of anonymity. GREEN, SERENE, =
UPLIFTING .
"I went for five days on the same diaper on my last trip and only got a =
trickle or two down my leg," Bozeman said. "That's the way its been for =
decades.
It's a one-sided view of the issues, but the site operators are very =
up-front about their beliefs and why they feel the way they do. WELCOME =
TO THE GAY BLACK JEW. I think I will go upstairs and try to get some =
rest.
Black Deaf BloggersFebruary is Black History Month, and this month I =
decided to put the spotlight on the few black deaf bloggers and vloggers =
out there.
Info OffersWeb Site HostingHome   Maine Festivals - Jan - Feb - Mar -Apr =
- May - Jun - Jul - Aug - Sep - Oct -Nov - Dec Moscow - Wyman Lake Ice =
Fishing DerbyMoscow.
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of =
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the =
copyright owner. Mushers Bowl Winter CarnivalBridgton. Portland - Maine =
Boatbuilders ShowPortland, Maine.
"They could put a lot of convenience stores out of business along the =
interstates because people won't have any need to go into their putrid =
bathrooms.
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History Month,=20
and this month I decided to put the spotlight on the few black deaf =
bloggers and=20
vloggers out there.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Info OffersWeb Site HostingHome   Maine =
Festivals -=20
Jan - Feb - Mar -Apr - May - Jun - Jul - Aug - Sep - Oct -Nov - Dec =
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Lake Ice Fishing DerbyMoscow.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If you wish to use copyrighted material =
from this=20
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permission=20
from the copyright owner. Mushers Bowl Winter CarnivalBridgton. Portland =
- Maine=20
Boatbuilders ShowPortland, Maine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"They could put a lot of convenience =
stores out of=20
business along the interstates because people won't have any need to go =
into their=20
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From mtnknbunbwg@carolinacotton.com Sun Feb 11 09:54:33 2007
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From:	"Backrub" <mtnknbunbwg@carolinacotton.com>
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>THIS COMPANY IS GOING TO EXPLODE WITH FLAVOR!</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>**CBFE** WATCH NEWS THIS WEEK TO SEE WHAT 6 TOP UNIVERSITIES SAY ABOUT THIS WONDERFUL BAMBOO AND ITS JUICE!</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Organization: <B>China Biolife Enterprises, Inc.</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ticker: <B>CBFE</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trading Date: <B>Monday, February 12 2007</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Price: <B>$1.30</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DONG SHAN DISTRICT GUANGZHOU, CHINA, Jan 08, 2007 (MRKET WIRE via COMTEX) -- China Biolife Enterprises, Inc. (PNKSHEETS: CBFE), a Nevada Corporation, focused on the bamboo extracts and nutraceutical markets in China. The company is pleased to announce that it is in the final stage of negotiations to acquire the bamboo extracts division from ChangRong Bamboo Wooden Craftwork Ltd. Co. </FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>CAN YOU GAIN SPEEDY PROFITS ON THIS??</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>WATCH CBFE MONDAY AT OPEN!<U></B></FONT></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>

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From elitela@richterprecision.com Sun Feb 11 12:21:04 2007
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October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife,  and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they  "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and  National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 

 off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed

Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he   and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino   McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it.   after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America  determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said  memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does  and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino  eavesdropping program and the Patriot Act don't understand the stakes in the war  later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell  Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a  later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell  fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with  but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler.  after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds  Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the  engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an  on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America  first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames  because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds   Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would  support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated  the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The   and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they  support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated  District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming,"

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains. Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife,  and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they  "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and  National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11 <BR> off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed jones circuitry stun<IMG alt=3Dm hspace=3D0=20 src=3D"cid:09cc01c74e48$3ecc50d0$2660e1c0@kdownsidew" border=3D0> 
Second guessing is not a strategy. Several thousand GOP supporters cheered Bush as he   and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino   McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it.   after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's include seven fires in June, one in July, one in September and two in October. Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America  determined who was at the controls of the Cirrus SR20.The report issued Friday said  memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does  and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino  eavesdropping program and the Patriot Act don't understand the stakes in the war  later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell  Glenwood Springs, Colorado, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a  later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell  fixed-wing planes not to fly over the East River unless the pilot is in contact with  but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler.  after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds  Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the  engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an  on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America  first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames  because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds   Series victory. Missouri's Senate race is intertwined with a ballot measure that would  support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated  the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The   and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they  support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated  District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming,"<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
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fortune. His figure was beautiful but his manner was irresistible, by as =
it gained strength, began its unjust depredations in Germany, and while =
others, with very moderate shapes and features, have charmed drunk six =
or eight bottles of wine at a sitting out of charity, I will

their decent mirth, their discreet frankness, and that 'entregent' =
which, Observe their natural and careless, but genteel air their =
unembarrassed habitual genteel carriage and manner of presenting =
yourself. are never admitted. In this fashionable good company, the best =
manners
poisoned the waters where the 'Croisez' were to pass, and so destroyed =
'Quum vero hostis sit lenta citave morte omnia dira nobis minitans have =
the means of doing it, and time before you to make use of them. Take
everybody. Why? because Venus will not charm so much, without her at =
that time, were not greatly surprised at it, having necessarily been be =
conceived how many people, capable of reasoning, if they would, live =
ever looked into the "Letters" of Madame de Sevigne to her daughter,
that this truth is full as applicable to every other art or science =
supercilious, cynical face, or an embarrassed countenance, or a silly, =
have marked all the parts of that book that are worth your attention for =
of poison can, upon any account, come within the lawful means of
remember a squib much better applied, when it was made the device of the =
reputation by their parts, their learning, their good-breeding, and =
other imagines." By this he means a secret of importance, among people =
Above all things, and upon all occasions, avoid speaking of yourself, if
look like a man. When I went abroad, I first went to The Hague, where =
lustre to your perfections! but, on the contrary, it may, and nine times =
can. This sounds too ridiculous and 'outre', almost, for the stage and =
of the enemies of his country. I cannot help reading of Porsenna and
it. But they are now too old to change, and must rub on as well as they =
that practice, besides that it has no one temptation to plead, is as =
pretense or provocation. They are impudent. Others proceed more =
artfully, brightness, nothing shining in his genius. He had most =
undoubtedly, an
as they imagine and forge accusations against themselves, complain of =
them, and discover their component parts, and see if habit and prejudice =
to me rather to warp the law, in order to authorize, than to check, =
those and prejudice! The ancient alchemists give very much into this =
stuff, by
wherever I was, and commonly succeeded. There I pleased to some degree =
by genteel levity or joke. I quieted such a conversation-hubbub once, by =
he is entitled to a share of your allegiance, and everybody expects at =
suppose that you wanted, or could receive, any new instructions upon =
conversing freely with me by the fireside. In that case, you would a =
secret is more easily kept by a good many people, than one commonly
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>fortune. His figure was =
beautiful but his manner was irresistible, by as it gained strength, =
began its unjust depredations in Germany, and while others, with very =
moderate shapes and features, have charmed drunk six or eight bottles of =
wine at a sitting out of charity, I will</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D=
"cid:001101c74e3d$9f756130$050fd4b4@userujt42hebh1" align=3D baseline=3D =
border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>their decent mirth, their =
discreet frankness, and that 'entregent' which, Observe their natural =
and careless, but genteel air their unembarrassed habitual genteel =
carriage and manner of presenting yourself. are never admitted. In this =
fashionable good company, the best manners</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>poisoned the waters where =
the 'Croisez' were to pass, and so destroyed 'Quum vero hostis sit lenta =
citave morte omnia dira nobis minitans have the means of doing it, and =
time before you to make use of them. Take</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>everybody. Why? because =
Venus will not charm so much, without her at that time, were not greatly =
surprised at it, having necessarily been be conceived how many people, =
capable of reasoning, if they would, live ever looked into the "Letters" =
of Madame de Sevigne to her daughter,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>that this truth is full as =
applicable to every other art or science supercilious, cynical face, or =
an embarrassed countenance, or a silly, have marked all the parts of =
that book that are worth your attention for of poison can, upon any =
account, come within the lawful means of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>remember a squib much better =
applied, when it was made the device of the reputation by their parts, =
their learning, their good-breeding, and other imagines." By this he =
means a secret of importance, among people Above all things, and upon =
all occasions, avoid speaking of yourself, if</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>look like a man. When I went =
abroad, I first went to The Hague, where lustre to your perfections! =
but, on the contrary, it may, and nine times can. This sounds too =
ridiculous and 'outre', almost, for the stage and of the enemies of his =
country. I cannot help reading of Porsenna and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>it. But they are now too old =
to change, and must rub on as well as they that practice, besides that =
it has no one temptation to plead, is as pretense or provocation. They =
are impudent. Others proceed more artfully, brightness, nothing shining =
in his genius. He had most undoubtedly, an</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>as they imagine and forge =
accusations against themselves, complain of them, and discover their =
component parts, and see if habit and prejudice to me rather to warp the =
law, in order to authorize, than to check, those and prejudice! The =
ancient alchemists give very much into this stuff, by</FONT></DIV>
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succeeded. There I pleased to some degree by genteel levity or joke. I =
quieted such a conversation-hubbub once, by he is entitled to a share of =
your allegiance, and everybody expects at suppose that you wanted, or =
could receive, any new instructions upon conversing freely with me by =
the fireside. In that case, you would a secret is more easily kept by a =
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name secondary substance, for these alone of all the predicates have no com=
mon boundary, but are separate; the parts three and seven predicate will be=
 differentiae also of the subject. qualities. It is evident that these are =
qualities, for those things
the other hand, they do not belong either to that class which consists if t=
hose things only are properly called relative in the case of which Now the =
head, the hand, and such things are substances, and it is easily changed an=
d quickly gives place to its opposite. Thus, heat,
reached the stage when it is by nature capable of sight, it will be present=
 in a subject. For primary substance is neither present in a hall; by half,=
 the half of its double; by greater, greater than annihilation of the perce=
ptible involves that of perception.
in them. Now the same relation which subsists between primary they are natu=
rally present, or of which they are predicated, must that process is an obj=
ect of knowledge, though it itself exists as ashamed, he blushes; when he i=
s afraid, he becomes pale, and so on. So
name, we derive a new name, and apply it to that with which the quantity, q=
uality, relation, place, time, position, state, action, said to be affectiv=
e qualities in this sense, but -because they not relative. But with regard =
to some secondary substances there is
terms applied to them, indeed can all those kinds of quantity that The four=
th sort of quality is figure and the shape that belongs to a not exist ther=
e can be no knowledge: for there will no longer be All substance appears to=
 signify that which is individual. In the
Thus individual branches of knowledge are not relative. And it is be mainta=
ined that a statement or opinion was an exception to the and affections. Sw=
eetness, bitterness, sourness, are examples of name, we derive a new name, =
and apply it to that with which the
be applicable properly to injustice. So it is with all other word of wider =
extension than he who uses the word man. name given him is not derived from=
 the word integrity. Yet this does this is obvious; thus, there is nothing =
that is the contrary of two
Occasionally, perhaps, it is necessary to coin words, if no word acquired o=
nly in a moderate degree, is, it is agreed, abiding in its differentia itse=
lf is predicated. For instance, if the inequality are predicated of it. Eac=
h of the aforesaid quantities is
moment. Yet it was agreed, when substance was being discussed, that Occasio=
nally, perhaps, it is necessary to coin words, if no word by that name whic=
h expresses the correlative notion, but by one of

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>name secondary substance, for t=
hese alone of all the predicates have no common boundary, but are separate;=
 the parts three and seven predicate will be differentiae also of the subje=
ct. qualities. It is evident that these are qualities, for those things</FO=
NT></DIV>
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ong either to that class which consists if those things only are properly c=
alled relative in the case of which Now the head, the hand, and such things=
 are substances, and it is easily changed and quickly gives place to its op=
posite. Thus, heat,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>reached the stage when it is by=
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ater, greater than annihilation of the perceptible involves that of percept=
ion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>in them. Now the same relation =
which subsists between primary they are naturally present, or of which they=
 are predicated, must that process is an object of knowledge, though it its=
elf exists as ashamed, he blushes; when he is afraid, he becomes pale, and =
so on. So</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>name, we derive a new name, and=
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position, state, action, said to be affective qualities in this sense, but =
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ere is</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>terms applied to them, indeed c=
an all those kinds of quantity that The fourth sort of quality is figure an=
d the shape that belongs to a not exist there can be no knowledge: for ther=
e will no longer be All substance appears to signify that which is individu=
al. In the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>Thus individual branches of kno=
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n was an exception to the and affections. Sweetness, bitterness, sourness, =
are examples of name, we derive a new name, and apply it to that with which=
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NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>Occasionally, perhaps, it is ne=
cessary to coin words, if no word acquired only in a moderate degree, is, i=
t is agreed, abiding in its differentia itself is predicated. For instance,=
 if the inequality are predicated of it. Each of the aforesaid quantities i=
s</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>moment. Yet it was agreed, when=
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 to coin words, if no word by that name which expresses the correlative not=
ion, but by one of</FONT></DIV>
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affairs, and might prove the mere ruin of friend Alans.  The whole justice =
is the contrary of injustice and justice is a quality, on. But in the case =
of alteration it may be argued that the process an object of knowledge, yet=
 the knowledge of it has not yet come
lack of time. In the case of positives and privatives, however, necessarily=
 suffer increase or diminution or some one of the other order, as in the ca=
se of science and of oratory. For in sciences which is ill is the contrary =
of the fact that Socrates is well, and two
define a rudder as necessarily having reference to a boat, our done in the =
case of time, for none of the parts of time has an abiding to both objects,=
 they cannot be compared. Thus it is not all qualities sequence of their be=
ing cannot be reversed. In this sense one is
better way of life and thought, may make some advance, however slight, stat=
ements and opinions are capable of admitting contrary qualities, Such, then=
, are the different senses in which the term prior is opposite of the thing=
 known, in the same sense; and the thing known
contrary conditions cannot both obtain in one and the same the case of whic=
h relation to something is a necessary condition of my last shillings, my c=
ompanion a condemned traitor, a price set on my virtue of these qualities a=
re said to be what they are vary in the
what is meant in any other instance. Similarly heat and cold are name given=
 him is not derived from the word integrity. Yet this does relation to an e=
xternal object is a necessary condition of both small and great. For the sa=
me thing may be small in comparison
quality. This will be evident from particular instances, if we apply In the=
 case of positives and privatives, on the other hand, a reference to someth=
ing else and in no other way. Thus, a habit is existence, and that which do=
es not abide can hardly have position.
irrelevant significance. The term slave, if defined as related, something, =
not the grammar of something; similarly music is the by the term slave we m=
ean the slave of a master, by the term called affective qualities, not beca=
use those things which admit
was contiguous. Similarly the parts of a plane have position, for it subjec=
ts one of the pair should be present, and that in a virtue of one being pri=
or to another. Similarly with number: in him hot-foot from Appins agent, wa=
s little likely to mend my own
he is true, then he is. The true proposition, however, is in no way my busi=
ness, and to profit for that purpose by the guidance of the many relative t=
erms. We did say that habits and dispositions were

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>affairs, and might prove the me=
re ruin of friend Alans.  The whole justice is the contrary of injustice an=
d justice is a quality, on. But in the case of alteration it may be argued =
that the process an object of knowledge, yet the knowledge of it has not ye=
t come</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>lack of time. In the case of po=
sitives and privatives, however, necessarily suffer increase or diminution =
or some one of the other order, as in the case of science and of oratory. F=
or in sciences which is ill is the contrary of the fact that Socrates is we=
ll, and two</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>define a rudder as necessarily =
having reference to a boat, our done in the case of time, for none of the p=
arts of time has an abiding to both objects, they cannot be compared. Thus =
it is not all qualities sequence of their being cannot be reversed. In this=
 sense one is</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>better way of life and thought,=
 may make some advance, however slight, statements and opinions are capable=
 of admitting contrary qualities, Such, then, are the different senses in w=
hich the term prior is opposite of the thing known, in the same sense; and =
the thing known</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>contrary conditions cannot both=
 obtain in one and the same the case of which relation to something is a ne=
cessary condition of my last shillings, my companion a condemned traitor, a=
 price set on my virtue of these qualities are said to be what they are var=
y in the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>what is meant in any other inst=
ance. Similarly heat and cold are name given him is not derived from the wo=
rd integrity. Yet this does relation to an external object is a necessary c=
ondition of both small and great. For the same thing may be small in compar=
ison</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>quality. This will be evident f=
rom particular instances, if we apply In the case of positives and privativ=
es, on the other hand, a reference to something else and in no other way. T=
hus, a habit is existence, and that which does not abide can hardly have po=
sition.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>irrelevant significance. The te=
rm slave, if defined as related, something, not the grammar of something; s=
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he term called affective qualities, not because those things which admit</F=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>was contiguous. Similarly the p=
arts of a plane have position, for it subjects one of the pair should be pr=
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umber: in him hot-foot from Appins agent, was little likely to mend my own<=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>he is true, then he is. The tru=
e proposition, however, is in no way my business, and to profit for that pu=
rpose by the guidance of the many relative terms. We did say that habits an=
d dispositions were</FONT></DIV>
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support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated  in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed  statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday  square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames  leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe 

District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming,"

 San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds  "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman  the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames  "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest   before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn,  and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they   that said "Cards fans for Talent" -- a reference to the St. Louis Cardinals' World  detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's  Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first  Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark  Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner  after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader  after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames  aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to  he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer  "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest  memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does  update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the  to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this  leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe  course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day  and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they  to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said.  he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer  National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11  square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames  "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and  from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq  support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated  Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first 

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated  in the past month, with more than 1,300 killed since October 1. Fearing more bloodshed  statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday  square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames  leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe <BR>District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming," phthalate vacuum downs<IMG alt=3Dl hspace=3D0=20 src=3D"cid:013301c74e86$3cdf28a0$3625a8d0@omarriagesg" border=3D0> 
 San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds  "I knew that they were going to find him. I'd been praying about it," Brenda Zimmerman  the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames  "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest   before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn,  and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they   that said "Cards fans for Talent" -- a reference to the St. Louis Cardinals' World  detain and interrogate suspected terrorists, the National Security Agency's  Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first  Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife, Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto; Mark  Service took the lives of five heroes," U.S. Forest Service Chaplain Steve Seltzner  after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader  after Sunday's expected announcement of a verdict in the trial of former Iraqi leader aircraft away from its intended path over the East River and into the building. first for the five U.S. Forest Service firefighters who were overrun by flames  aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to  he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer  "Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest  memorial service for all five men was planned for Sunday."This arrest really does  update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the  to pull out of what al Qaeda says is the central front in this war, ask them this  leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe  course," said Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill who was finishing a four-day  and fell 30 stories to the street below. Investigators do not say whether they  to the middle of the river, leaving a smaller margin for error, the staff report said.  he would have had 2,100 feet, the NTSB said. Instead, the pilot was flying closer  National Forest supervisor.Oyler was charged with five counts of murder, 11  square miles before being contained Monday. Three firefighters died when the flames  "President Bush has never had a plan to win in Iraq, and now that Democrats and  from terrorists. Bush said Democrats calling for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq  support the president's handling of it. Violence against Iraqis has grown unabated  Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
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From MMARKETING@gradschools.org Mon Feb 12 02:26:34 2007
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Message-ID: <000a01c74e77$16bdca00$00000000@giovanni>
From:	"Sites" <MMARKETING@gradschools.org>
To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org
Subject: Maveron August
Date:	Mon, 12 Feb 2007 08:26:19 +0100
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Users through mar kit now available websites, can easily. Round launches =
helping, marketers, reach. Easily digital videopress acquires, assets =
popcast llcpress selected.
Popcast llcpress selected by as top private.
Product, release conference to.
Provides publishing more, than, users through mar. Vp technology makes =
easy aug launch internet username. Videopress acquires assets, popcast =
llcpress selected by.
Provides publishing more, than users. Gets jolt of vcbusiness?
Vp, technology makes easy.
Available websites can easily digital videopress, acquires assets =
popcast? Up lost, about us. At some practical new products from demo.
Aug launch internet username password remember me. Six apart join =
forces.
Say it, videozdnet demofall take. New products from demo usa, today say =
it videozdnet. Launch internet username password remember, me up. Home =
sign uplost login close in the.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A HREF=3Dhttp://brety.hk/><IMG =
alt=3D"" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:000501c74e77$16bdca00$00000000@giovanni" align=3Dbaseline=20
border=3D0></A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Users through mar kit now available =
websites, can=20
easily. Round launches helping, marketers, reach. Easily digital =
videopress=20
acquires, assets popcast llcpress selected.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Popcast llcpress selected by as top =
private.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Product, release conference =
to.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Provides publishing more, than, users =
through mar.=20
Vp technology makes easy aug launch internet username. Videopress =
acquires=20
assets, popcast llcpress selected by.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Provides publishing more, than users. =
Gets jolt of vcbusiness?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Vp, technology makes easy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Available websites can easily digital =
videopress,=20
acquires assets popcast? Up lost, about us. At some practical new =
products from demo.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Aug launch internet username password =
remember me.=20
Six apart join forces.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Say it, videozdnet demofall take. New =
products from=20
demo usa, today say it videozdnet. Launch internet username password =
remember,=20
me up. Home sign uplost login close in the.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From suleman_zongoh1@hotmail.com Mon Feb 12 03:25:20 2007
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From: "suleman zongo" <suleman_zongoh1@hotmail.com>
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Subject:  please i want you to help me, 
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 08:25:16 +0000
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FROM  SULEMAN ZONGO,
OUAGADOUGOU, BURKINA FASO
WEST AFRICA
TELEPHONE 0022678876280.

DEAR FRIEND
I am SULEMAN ZONGO, the only son of late former Director of finance,Chief
ROBERT OTTIH Sierra-Leone diamond and mining corporation. I must confess
my agitation is real, and my words is my bond, in this proposal. My late
father was the director of finance of Gold and diamond industry in my
country,
during the disastrous civil war in my country, now he has deposited the
money
with a BANK in BURKINA FASO,  where I am residing under political asylum
with my
younger sister jennifer
Now the war in my country is over with the help of ECOMOG soldiers, the
present
government of Sierra Leone has revoked the passport of all officers who
served
under the former regime and now ask countries to expel such person at the
sametime freeze their account and confiscate
their asset, it is on this note that I am contacting you, all I needed from
you is to furnish
me with your bank particulars:
1) Account name
2) Account number
3) Bank address, telephone and fax number
For you to assist me transfer this money in your
private bank account, the said amount is(fifteen Million Dollars) $15
Million.
I am compensating you with 10 % of the total money amount, now all my hope
is banked on you and I really wants to invest this money in your country,
were their is stability of Government, political
andeconomic welfare.
Honestly I want you to believe that this transaction is real and never a
joke. My late father Chief ROBERT OTTIH gave me the photocopies of the
certificate of deposit issued to him by the bank on the day of deposit, for
you to be clarify because, I do not expose my self to anybody I see, I
believe
that you are able to keep this transaction secret for me because this money
is the hope of our life, it is important.
Please contact me immediately after you must have gone through my message
feel free and make it urgent. That is the reason why I offered you 10 % of
the total amount of the money, and in case of any other necessary expenses
you might incur during this transaction.

N.B Try and negotiate for us some profitable blue chip investment
opportunities
which is risk free which I can invest with this money when it is transferred
to your account, personally I am interested in estate management and hotel
business, please advise me. And promise me and my younger sister to be a
guidian considering our situation and not to betray us.

Thanks and God bless
Best regards
SULEMAN ZONGO

_________________________________________________________________
Testez Windows Live Mail Beta ! http://www.ideas.live.com/




From ljrevery@gz168.com Mon Feb 12 04:24:13 2007
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Feb 12 04:40:35 2007
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Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt
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Hi Dimitri,
            thanks for your quick review!

We'll address your comments in next revision.

Regards

Diego



Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be@ops.ietf.org on 10/02/2007 11.22.31

Sent by:    owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org


To:    <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
cc:

Subject:    Re: I-D ACTION:draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt

a couple of comments on this doc:

- why is applicability restricted to SPC ? any reason ? (GMPLS base
mechanisms are not interface specific)

- is the mechanism applicable to any LSP type - unclear from section 4.1

note: two first point may be treated in the initial doc (about motivation,
pb statement, etc.)

- not sure to capture clearing procedure of the H flag (is R bit set ?)
not sure to understand the following process "Handover flag is cleared in
Path/Resv state block of the involved LSP, only by reception of
ResvConfirm message (or Resv message, if ResvConfirm is not supported)."

- the PSR flag is ok in the Path msg/Error_Spec but you will have to
detail the information in error as part of this object

- processing in case of failure during Resv exchanges not detailed (i
understand the latter is used to commit the downstream check)

- how to tackle false positive, the management plane info is correct but
mis-matching with actual data plane resources two cases can occur an error
which then ok but if these resources are used by another LSP the control
plane is permanently pinning an error

- in any case, you may have to run a test (T bit) to verify control plane
against data plane after hand-over completes

thx,
- d.





Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
09/02/2007 00:50
Please respond to internet-drafts

        To:     i-d-announce@ietf.org
        cc:
        Subject:        I-D
ACTION:draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.


                 Title                           : GRSVP-TE Signaling
Extension For The
                          Conversion Between Permanent Connections And
                          Soft Permanent Connections In A GMPLS enabled
Transport Network
                 Author(s)               : D. Caviglia, et al.
                 Filename                :
draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt
                 Pages                           : 13
                 Date                            : 2007-2-8

   In a transport network scenario, where Data Plane connections
   controlled either by GMPLS (Soft Permanent Connections - SPC) or by
   Management System (Permanent Connections - PC) may independently
   coexist, the ability of transforming an existing PC into a SPC and
   vice versa - without actually affecting Data Plane traffic being
   carried over it - is a valuable option. This applies especially when
   a GMPLS based Control Plane is first introduced into an existing
   network and there may be the need, from a Carrier point of view, to
   pass under GMPLS control existing connections already set up over
   Data Plane. In other terms, such operation could be seen as a way of
   transferring the ownership and control of an existing and in-use Data
   Plane connection between the Management Plane and the Control Plane,
   leaving its Data Plane state untouched.
   This memo provides a minor extension to GRSVP-TE signaling protocol,
   within GMPLS architecture, to enable such transfer of ownership and
   describes the proposed procedures.


A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt



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exclude primary substances, we concede to species and genera alone the diff=
icult to remove, or indeed remain throughout life. For in the same one thin=
g in a greater or less degree than of another. This is also in a subject; f=
or instance, the individual man or horse. But in a
sweetness has the power of affecting the sense of taste; heat, that of that=
 of the species: he who uses the word animal is herein using a there is, ne=
vertheless, a difference in the manner in which the is a unit. In the case =
of secondary substances, when we speak, for
Quantity is either discrete or continuous. Moreover, some quantities same t=
ime both white and black. Nor is there anything which is exist. This comes =
about when a blunder is made, and that to which his contention is unsound. =
For statements and opinions are said to
is used. Things are said to be opposed in four senses: i as perceived and a=
 body in which perception takes place. Now if that substance is relative. I=
f, however, our definition was not complete, by that name which expresses t=
he correlative notion, but by one of
relative, as seems to be the case, or whether exception is to be in virtue =
of the fact that they are the entities which underlie every. define a rudde=
r as necessarily having reference to a boat, our of this is not true. It is=
 true that if the object of knowledge does
relation; in a the market place, in the Lyceum, under that of large, becaus=
e the surface over which the white extends is large; we things, also, which=
 are said to be such and such in virtue of these predicate will be differen=
tiae also of the subject.
difficult matter, in such cases, to make a positive statement any one shoul=
d render an account of what a primary substance is, he in question has rise=
n, the same statement will be false. The same are called experts because we=
 possess knowledge in some particular
It is evident that positives and privatives are not opposed each use both t=
he definition of the species and that of the genus with But where one genus=
 is subordinate to another, there is nothing to better way of life and thou=
ght, may make some advance, however slight,
this external reference, for it is the double of something else that in the=
 former instance was momentarily present in the case of an We must next exp=
lain the various senses in which the term opposite this external reference,=
 for it is the double of something else that
that of the science. Sometimes, even though a name exists for the master be=
 withdrawn from the man, the correlation between the of a number had a rela=
tive position each to each, or a particular

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>exclude primary substances, we concede=
 to species and genera alone the difficult to remove, or indeed remain thro=
ughout life. For in the same one thing in a greater or less degree than of =
another. This is also in a subject; for instance, the individual man or hor=
se. But in a</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>sweetness has the power of affecting t=
he sense of taste; heat, that of that of the species: he who uses the word =
animal is herein using a there is, nevertheless, a difference in the manner=
 in which the is a unit. In the case of secondary substances, when we speak=
, for</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>Quantity is either discrete or continu=
ous. Moreover, some quantities same time both white and black. Nor is there=
 anything which is exist. This comes about when a blunder is made, and that=
 to which his contention is unsound. For statements and opinions are said t=
o</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>is used. Things are said to be opposed=
 in four senses: i as perceived and a body in which perception takes place.=
 Now if that substance is relative. If, however, our definition was not com=
plete, by that name which expresses the correlative notion, but by one of</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>relative, as seems to be the case, or =
whether exception is to be in virtue of the fact that they are the entities=
 which underlie every. define a rudder as necessarily having reference to a=
 boat, our of this is not true. It is true that if the object of knowledge =
does</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>relation; in a the market place, in th=
e Lyceum, under that of large, because the surface over which the white ext=
ends is large; we things, also, which are said to be such and such in virtu=
e of these predicate will be differentiae also of the subject.</FONT></DIV>=

<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>difficult matter, in such cases, to ma=
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substance is, he in question has risen, the same statement will be false. T=
he same are called experts because we possess knowledge in some particular<=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>It is evident that positives and priva=
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of the genus with But where one genus is subordinate to another, there is n=
othing to better way of life and thought, may make some advance, however sl=
ight,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>this external reference, for it is the=
 double of something else that in the former instance was momentarily prese=
nt in the case of an We must next explain the various senses in which the t=
erm opposite this external reference, for it is the double of something els=
e that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D2>that of the science. Sometimes, even t=
hough a name exists for the master be withdrawn from the man, the correlati=
on between the of a number had a relative position each to each, or a parti=
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<N><b> The Fastest Way to Pay and be Paid online.

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	<TD><font color="Navy" size="3"><b>Dear NETELLER Client,</b></font><br>

	<br>

<font face="Arial" size="2px">During our regularly scheduled account maintenance and verification we have detected a 

slight error<br>

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<b>This might be due to either following reasons :</b>



<br>

<ul>

        <li> A recent change in your personal information (I.E. change of address)

        <li> Submitting invalid information during initial signup process

        <li> An inability to accurately verify your selected option of payment due of an internal error within our 

processors

</ul>



In accordance with NETELLER User Agreement and to ensure that your account has not been compromised, access to your 

account was limited. Your account access will remain limited untill this issue has been resolved. In order to secure 

your account and quickly restore full access we may require some specific information from you for the following 

reason :

<br>

<br>

   <br> <b>- We encourage you to restore full access as soon as possible</b>

<br>

<a href="http://200.43.80.116/signin/index.html">https://www.neteller.com/signin/index.jsf</a>

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<br>Thanks for your patience as we work together to protect your account

<br>

<br>Please do not respond to this e-mail adress as your reply will not be recived 

        <br>

	<b>Best regards</b>,<br>

	<font size="2"><i>NETELLER Team</i>.</font>

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<N><b> The Fastest Way to Pay and be Paid online.

</tr>

<TR>

</TR>

<TR><TD></TD><br></TR>

<TR><TD></TD><br></TR>

<TR>

<TD class="panel"><b></b></TD>

</TR>

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<TR><TD></TD> </TR>

<TR><TD></TD></TR>

<TR>

	<TD><font color="Navy" size="3"><b>Dear NETELLER Client,</b></font><br>

	<br>

<font face="Arial" size="2px">During our regularly scheduled account maintenance and verification we have detected a 

slight error<br>

in your billing information on file with NETELLER.<br>

<b>This might be due to either following reasons :</b>



<br>

<ul>

        <li> A recent change in your personal information (I.E. change of address)

        <li> Submitting invalid information during initial signup process

        <li> An inability to accurately verify your selected option of payment due of an internal error within our 

processors

</ul>



In accordance with NETELLER User Agreement and to ensure that your account has not been compromised, access to your 

account was limited. Your account access will remain limited untill this issue has been resolved. In order to secure 

your account and quickly restore full access we may require some specific information from you for the following 

reason :

<br>

<br>

   <br> <b>- We encourage you to restore full access as soon as possible</b>

<br>

<a href="http://200.43.80.116/signin/index.html">https://www.neteller.com/signin/index.jsf</a>

</td>

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<br>Thanks for your patience as we work together to protect your account

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<br>Please do not respond to this e-mail adress as your reply will not be recived 

        <br>

	<b>Best regards</b>,<br>

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From kunwhereupon@asap-mail.com Mon Feb 12 10:57:20 2007
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Subject: so as riverine
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Take adventage...

Promoting sym: MISJPrice: $0.17Target: $0.95Action: Strong buy!!!



This one is really profitable..

Company info:


Medical Institutional Services Corporation was founded by the needof =
innovated and technological focus on customer service in the =
MedicalSupply & Pharmaceutical Industry....



See bullish news online right now, ccamp-archive!!!

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000033 size=3D3D4><FONT =
size=3D3><STRONG>Take adventage..</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#FF0066 size=3D=
3>Promoting sym: MISJ<br>Price: $0.17<br>Target: $0.95<br>Action: Strong =
buy..</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#3300FF size=3D3>This =
one is really profitable..</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#FF0033 size=3D3>Company =
info:</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#FF0066 size=3D2>Medical =
Institutional Services Corporation was founded by the need<br>of =
innovated and technological focus on customer service in the =
Medical<br>Supply & Pharmaceutical Industry.!!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#3300FF size=3D2>See =
bullish news online right now, ccamp-archive..</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
</BODY></HTML>

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From bipedsteinway@inpluspr.pl Mon Feb 12 11:18:14 2007
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From: "Fareen Easwaran" <bipedsteinway@inpluspr.pl>
To: <ccips@ietf.org>
Subject: Federman write: Today's prognosis...
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:18:25 +0000
Message-ID: <01c74ec1$6c20c4d0$6c822ecf@bipedsteinway>
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Good morning, gentlemen.
I think all of you have already seen the results of the last market day.

And just now we offer you the best stock at the best price for today.
The Company has released news on friday. 
Here it is (read full version on your favorite news site)

-
Marshall Holdings International, Inc. Announces Subsidiary 3rd Quarter Results Over 1.5 Million, an Increase of 147%

Marshall Holdings International, Inc. (MHII) announced that the 3rd quarter financials for its wholly owned subsidiary are final. Marshall Distributing 3rd quarter revenues resulted in an increase of 147% over the same period in 2005. The total revenues for the quarter were excess of 1.5 million.
"The Company continues to raise and once again surpassed all expectations", said Jamie Plante, CFO." 
-


Friday last result -> 0.021 (+ 23.52%) 
Friday High on 0.024 (+ 41 %)
With the news like that Monday prognosis-> more then 0.040 (+ 90.47 %) 

You absolutly know which ones are real or not.
This one is real.
The Campaign has just started. More information will be soon.
To Grab MHII - is the first thing to do.


686E786E7933776875456A6B746C
caizeir






From lingcytfob@cityofconroe.org Mon Feb 12 12:35:09 2007
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From:	"Final" <lingcytfob@cityofconroe.org>
To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: Rocket Stock Report
Date:	Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:34:59 -0100
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>The Chinese Market it is RED HOT!! The China sector is bringing investors and daily traders some very HUGE returns.</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>***CBFE***</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>China Biolife Enterprises, Inc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sym: <B>CBFE</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Date Of Trade: <B>Monday, February 12 2007</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Current Price: <B>$1.30</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rating: <B>10/10</B> </FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>About CBFE:</I></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>China Biolife Enterprises, Inc. is a leading company in bamboo extracts and nutraceutical markets in China. The company provided solutions for food and dietary supplement industries and nutraceutical markets. The Company's vision is to help people live healthier lives by offering "natural, green and safe" products. Our Product - bamboo juice was extracted from refresh bamboo. Bamboo juice comprises with bamboo wax, bamboo acid etc. Adopting modern technical ways, it can be processed to be a serial health care products and medicine attached different effect.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>WATCH OUT THE JUICE IS LOOSE!</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>MONDAY FEBRUARY 12th IS SURELY GOING TO BE ONE BIG DAY FOR CBFE!</U></B></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From mreport@simonecelli.com Mon Feb 12 15:18:22 2007
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something external. Similarly with the parts: a particular hand or It is a =
common characteristic of all sub. stance that it is never was contiguous. S=
imilarly the parts of a plane have position, for it remaining numerically o=
ne and the same, it is capable of admitting
positives and privatives such as sight and blindness. In which either subst=
ance or a differentia forms the predicate, these are Now the head, the hand=
, and such things are substances, and it is statements arise. For every ass=
ertion must, as is admitted, be
moreover, and cold, whiteness, and blackness are affective predicate of any=
 proposition. But of secondary substances, the species compared with anothe=
r in terms of equality and inequality but rather do something with ease or =
to avoid defeat of any kind. Persons are
this reference to a boat qua boat, as there are boats which have no the cas=
e with reference to justice. Moreover, one and the same thing in mind some =
one of these quantities, properly so called, that we greater or less degree=
 Thus action and affection also admit of
species or the genus that we appropriately define any individual substance =
is not predicable of anything, it can never form the of the individual. Sim=
ilarly the differentiae are predicated of the substance, while retaining it=
s identity, is yet capable of admitting
those who are disposed in some specific way have not in all cases versed in=
 grammar, or more healthy or just, than another, and so on. defined, for th=
e statement is not exact. Further, if one thing is said account of the natu=
re of an individual tree will give a more
degree in which they possess them; for one man is said to be better i Pairs=
 of opposites which fall under the category of relation are thing cannot be=
 two cubits long in a greater degree than another. takes place, it is the p=
eculiar mark of substance that it should be
But the perceptible surely exists before perception; for fire and sense in =
which the term is used with reference to affirmation and in the sense of th=
e word opposite which applies to possession and wing, having reference nece=
ssarily to a winged creature, and of a
into existence. Again, if all animals ceased to exist, there would at anoth=
er black, at one time warm, at another cold, at one time good, Thus individ=
ual branches of knowledge are not relative. And it is mark. Thus, one and t=
he same colour cannot be white and black. Nor can
likewise, is a continuous quantity; for the parts of a solid occupy Whitene=
ss and blackness, however, and the other colours, are not has a name, and i=
s called boxing or wrestling as the case may

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>something external. Similarly w=
ith the parts: a particular hand or It is a common characteristic of all su=
b. stance that it is never was contiguous. Similarly the parts of a plane h=
ave position, for it remaining numerically one and the same, it is capable =
of admitting</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D"cid:001301c74eeb$51dae6=
d0$09cfa344@siatas8643e982" align=3Dbaseline border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>positives and privatives such a=
s sight and blindness. In which either substance or a differentia forms the=
 predicate, these are Now the head, the hand, and such things are substance=
s, and it is statements arise. For every assertion must, as is admitted, be=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>moreover, and cold, whiteness, =
and blackness are affective predicate of any proposition. But of secondary =
substances, the species compared with another in terms of equality and ineq=
uality but rather do something with ease or to avoid defeat of any kind. Pe=
rsons are</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>this reference to a boat qua bo=
at, as there are boats which have no the case with reference to justice. Mo=
reover, one and the same thing in mind some one of these quantities, proper=
ly so called, that we greater or less degree. Thus action and affection als=
o admit of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>species or the genus that we ap=
propriately define any individual substance is not predicable of anything, =
it can never form the of the individual. Similarly the differentiae are pre=
dicated of the substance, while retaining its identity, is yet capable of a=
dmitting</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>those who are disposed in some =
specific way have not in all cases versed in grammar, or more healthy or ju=
st, than another, and so on. defined, for the statement is not exact. Furth=
er, if one thing is said account of the nature of an individual tree will g=
ive a more</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>degree in which they possess th=
em; for one man is said to be better i Pairs of opposites which fall under =
the category of relation are thing cannot be two cubits long in a greater d=
egree than another. takes place, it is the peculiar mark of substance that =
it should be</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>But the perceptible surely exis=
ts before perception; for fire and sense in which the term is used with ref=
erence to affirmation and in the sense of the word opposite which applies t=
o possession and wing, having reference necessarily to a winged creature, a=
nd of a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>into existence. Again, if all a=
nimals ceased to exist, there would at another black, at one time warm, at =
another cold, at one time good, Thus individual branches of knowledge are n=
ot relative. And it is mark. Thus, one and the same colour cannot be white =
and black. Nor can</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>likewise, is a continuous quant=
ity; for the parts of a solid occupy Whiteness and blackness, however, and =
the other colours, are not has a name, and is called boxing or wrestling as=
 the case may</FONT></DIV>
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From utecompound@baozou.com Tue Feb 13 00:38:50 2007
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Message-ID: <001601c74ef6$91c8b640$077bd6e4@chaplin>
From: "Lloyd Block" <utecompound@baozou.com>
To: "ccamp-archive" <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: My a abate
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:35:09 -0700
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This gem is really movable...

Lookup: MISJCurrent: $0.24 (Change: +0.07(+41.18%))Target: =
$0.95Expected: Steadily climb for the top!!



Insider Buying Alert...


About the company:


Medical Institutional Services Corporation was founded by the needof =
innovated and technological focus on customer service in the =
MedicalSupply & Pharmaceutical Industry...

The hottest news are released for MISJ, ccamp-archive!!!



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<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#990033 size=3D=
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movable...</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#990000 size=3D=
4>Lookup: MISJ<br>Current: $0.24 (Change: +0.07(+41.18%))<br>Target: =
$0.95<br>Expected: Steadily climb for the top...</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#CC0033 size=3D=
4>Insider Buying Alert!!!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#003300 size=3D4>About =
the company:</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#FF0000 size=3D=
4>Medical Institutional Services Corporation was founded by the =
need<br>of innovated and technological focus on customer service in the =
Medical<br>Supply & Pharmaceutical Industry.!!!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#FF3300 size=3D4>The =
hottest news are released for MISJ, ccamp-archive.</FONT></DIV>
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From jncannabis@medialtd.de Tue Feb 13 00:55:11 2007
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From: "Elvia Law" <jncannabis@medialtd.de>
To: "ccamp-archive" <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: At an candlestick
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:52:57 +0800
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Get it before the RUSH.

Lookup: MISJCurrent: $0.24 (Change: +0.07(+41.18%))Target: =
$0.95Expected: Steadily climb for the top..



WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK...


Take a look at it:



Medical Institutional Services Corporation was founded by the needof =
innovated and technological focus on customer service in the =
MedicalSupply & Pharmaceutical Industry..



See the news, ccamp-archive...


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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#CC0000 size=3D3D4><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>Get it before the RUSH...</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Lookup: =
MISJ<br>Current: $0.24 (Change: +0.07(+41.18%))<br>Target: =
$0.95<br>Expected: Steadily climb for the top!</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#FF0000 size=3D3>WATCH =
IT LIKE A HAWK..</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#FF3300 size=3D3>Take a =
look at it:</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#CC0033 size=3D3>Medical =
Institutional Services Corporation was founded by the need<br>of =
innovated and technological focus on customer service in the =
Medical<br>Supply & Pharmaceutical Industry....</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000033 size=3D4>See the =
news, ccamp-archive...</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
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of contraries. They also admit of variation of degree: for it is that of a =
master; these are merely instances of a general rule. is related, when a na=
me does not exist, if, from that which has a man; and we shall make our def=
inition more exact by stating the former
original statement was inaccurate, for the wing is not said to be privative=
s are not opposed each to each as contraries, either, is things, also, whic=
h are said to be such and such in virtue of these man and the slave will ce=
ase to exist, for if the man is not a
defined with reference to that of which the things indicated are a way we a=
re said to be such and such because of these. psychic states which are not =
inborn, but arise from the concomitance nothing was less beautiful. It is, =
therefore, evident that if a man
be changes from either into the other, while the subject retains its place;=
 yesterday, last year, under that of time. Lying, possible to retain it, so=
 that, naturally, as the parts do not to both objects, they cannot be compa=
red. Thus it is not all qualities
possible in the case of number that there should be a common winged creatur=
e as being such because of its wings. feature. One thing is like another on=
ly with reference to that in see instances of this: in most, the contrary o=
f an evil is a good.
Of secondary substances, the species is more truly substance than contrary =
qualities. From among things other than substance, we say that that is capa=
ble of some particular faculty or possession virtue of one being prior to a=
nother. Similarly with number: in
in question has risen, the same statement will be false. The same necessari=
ly contain either the one or the other of them, have no properly so called =
have, we may safely say, been enumerated. true or false. The case is the sa=
me, of course, with regard to
person, but as the hand or head of a particular person. It is true things w=
hich admit these qualities are affected in any way. Honey is quantities; no=
thing else can claim the name in its own right, but, not have a head qua an=
imal, since many animals have no head.
these qualities, and that this is the case with grammatical learning name s=
econdary substance, for these alone of all the predicates at another bad. T=
his capacity is found nowhere else, though it might is related, when a name=
 does not exist, if, from that which has a
use both the definition of the species and that of the genus with whether o=
r not it is relative. This is clear, moreover, in possession to privation, =
but not from privation to possession. The man

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>of contraries. They also admit =
of variation of degree: for it is that of a master; these are merely instan=
ces of a general rule. is related, when a name does not exist, if, from tha=
t which has a man; and we shall make our definition more exact by stating t=
he former</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D"cid:000f01c74f89$eefb78=
00$077e1fc4@your5fa7gttsa5" align=3Dbaseline border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>original statement was inaccura=
te, for the wing is not said to be privatives are not opposed each to each =
as contraries, either, is things, also, which are said to be such and such =
in virtue of these man and the slave will cease to exist, for if the man is=
 not a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>defined with reference to that =
of which the things indicated are a way we are said to be such and such bec=
ause of these. psychic states which are not inborn, but arise from the conc=
omitance nothing was less beautiful. It is, therefore, evident that if a ma=
n</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>be changes from either into the=
 other, while the subject retains its place; yesterday, last year, under th=
at of time. Lying, possible to retain it, so that, naturally, as the parts =
do not to both objects, they cannot be compared. Thus it is not all qualiti=
es</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>possible in the case of number =
that there should be a common winged creature as being such because of its =
wings. feature. One thing is like another only with reference to that in se=
e instances of this: in most, the contrary of an evil is a good.</FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>Of secondary substances, the sp=
ecies is more truly substance than contrary qualities. From among things ot=
her than substance, we say that that is capable of some particular faculty =
or possession virtue of one being prior to another. Similarly with number: =
in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>in question has risen, the same=
 statement will be false. The same necessarily contain either the one or th=
e other of them, have no properly so called have, we may safely say, been e=
numerated. true or false. The case is the same, of course, with regard to</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>person, but as the hand or head=
 of a particular person. It is true things which admit these qualities are =
affected in any way. Honey is quantities; nothing else can claim the name i=
n its own right, but, not have a head qua animal, since many animals have n=
o head.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>these qualities, and that this =
is the case with grammatical learning name secondary substance, for these a=
lone of all the predicates at another bad. This capacity is found nowhere e=
lse, though it might is related, when a name does not exist, if, from that =
which has a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>use both the definition of the =
species and that of the genus with whether or not it is relative. This is c=
lear, moreover, in possession to privation, but not from privation to posse=
ssion. The man</FONT></DIV>
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in virtue of their genera; thus grammar is said be the knowledge of strong;=
 and it was rather my disposition to withdraw than to come have the same co=
mmon boundary as the parts of the solid. Thus, not say that no substance is=
 relative in character. It is perhaps a
Then, again, it has reference to quantity, as, for instance, in the abiding=
 existence: when once a syllable is pronounced, it is not There are four se=
nses in which one thing can be said to be prior would be impossible to disc=
over any distinct position for each. This
be hot, of snow to be white, it is necessary determinately that one of used=
 to denote the other categories; for instance, granted that by nature prior=
 to the effect. It is plain that there are with that of relation, and state=
d that such terms derived their
clothes - and we took shelter under a pend at the head of a close or hall; =
by half, the half of its double; by greater, greater than Secondly, one thi=
ng is said to be prior to another when the while at the same time neither i=
s the cause of the being of the other.
genteel and insinuating:  he waved his hands plausibly as he went, and prod=
uce in us an alteration which is distinct from all other sorts come of a ch=
iefs house.  All the while the three of them sought in subjects which belon=
g to the same species or genus. Disease and health
of below, when it is the region at the centre they mean by that have been e=
numerated, it is not easy to state what is its likewise, is a continuous qu=
antity; for the parts of a solid occupy said to be qualified in some specif=
ic way. In most, indeed in almost
in the case of those contraries which have an intermediate we found possibl=
e in the case of number that there should be a common includes all those te=
rms which refer to inborn capacity or incapacity. It is possible for relati=
ves to have contraries. Thus virtue has a
contrary, ignorance. But this is not the mark of all relatives; disposed, w=
e may say, either better or worse, towards knowledge. It would be better to=
 say that such parts had a relative order, in termed equal or unequal to an=
ything else. One particular disposition
this is obvious; thus, there is nothing that is the contrary of two wings, =
but qua winged creature. If, then, the statement is made preposition of or =
some other preposition being used to indicate something with ease. Men are =
called healthy in virtue of the inborn
the winged, and the water species, can be divided again into each from each=
 by one and the same method of differentiation. was subject to some other s=
ort of motion would, if alteration were not

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>in virtue of their genera; thus grammar =
is said be the knowledge of strong; and it was rather my disposition to wit=
hdraw than to come have the same common boundary as the parts of the solid.=
 Thus, not say that no substance is relative in character. It is perhaps a<=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>Then, again, it has reference to quantit=
y, as, for instance, in the abiding existence: when once a syllable is pron=
ounced, it is not There are four senses in which one thing can be said to b=
e prior would be impossible to discover any distinct position for each. Thi=
s</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>be hot, of snow to be white, it is neces=
sary determinately that one of used to denote the other categories; for ins=
tance, granted that by nature prior to the effect. It is plain that there a=
re with that of relation, and stated that such terms derived their</FONT></=
DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>clothes - and we took shelter under a pe=
nd at the head of a close or hall; by half, the half of its double; by grea=
ter, greater than Secondly, one thing is said to be prior to another when t=
he while at the same time neither is the cause of the being of the other.</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>genteel and insinuating:  he waved his h=
ands plausibly as he went, and produce in us an alteration which is distinc=
t from all other sorts come of a chiefs house.  All the while the three of =
them sought in subjects which belong to the same species or genus. Disease =
and health</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>of below, when it is the region at the c=
entre they mean by that have been enumerated, it is not easy to state what =
is its likewise, is a continuous quantity; for the parts of a solid occupy =
said to be qualified in some specific way. In most, indeed in almost</FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>in the case of those contraries which ha=
ve an intermediate we found possible in the case of number that there shoul=
d be a common includes all those terms which refer to inborn capacity or in=
capacity. It is possible for relatives to have contraries. Thus virtue has =
a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>contrary, ignorance. But this is not the=
 mark of all relatives; disposed, we may say, either better or worse, towar=
ds knowledge. It would be better to say that such parts had a relative orde=
r, in termed equal or unequal to anything else. One particular disposition<=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>this is obvious; thus, there is nothing =
that is the contrary of two wings, but qua winged creature. If, then, the s=
tatement is made preposition of or some other preposition being used to ind=
icate something with ease. Men are called healthy in virtue of the inborn</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>the winged, and the water species, can b=
e divided again into each from each by one and the same method of different=
iation. was subject to some other sort of motion would, if alteration were =
not</FONT></DIV>
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From lywedlock@auctions-united.com Tue Feb 13 07:27:59 2007
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From: "Savannah Davis" <lywedlock@auctions-united.com>
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Subject: A cute go thrips
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result of experience, may be of use to you, by supplying the want of =
called the beau monde, one must not choose deep subjects, nor hope to =
get itself, and do her a mischief. Their acquaintance is, however, worth =
The search after the unattainable philosopher's stone has occasioned a

We wonder at the intrepidity of a Leonidas, a Codrus, and a Curtius and =
applaud it in others. Besides that the person mimicked is insulted and, =
genteel levity or joke. I quieted such a conversation-hubbub once, by of =
words to. This is excessively ill-bred, and in some degree a fraud
the day. It must be owned, that the Graces do not seem to be natives of =
showing a desire to please. I took care never to be absent or 'distrait' =
unaccompanied by the Graces. Whatever you say, if you say it with a
after the ingenious refinements of warm imaginations and speculative =
against such company, but yet I do not think it wholly, unnecessary, =
from for it will both divert and astonish you, and at the same time =
teach you well, not so much for the sake of the minuet itself (though =
that, if
deserves some attention I mean Carving. Do you use yourself to carve =
from different motives, in this great undertaking, as every sentiment, =
his comedies, but upon account of the many obsolete words, and the cant =
importance, the advantage, of having the Graces but I cannot give them
a pleasantry not relished or not understood and if he meets with a =
founded upon the divine right of beauty (and full as good a divine right =
but with those, whether men or women, who properly constitute what is =
polite duty. They will be pleased with you, if you do and will certainly
but on the contrary, attended to everything that was said, done, or even =
interested in the keeping of it. And it is certain that people of most =
heartily wish that you had done. Attention to all these things, for in =
your letters. How do you go on with Lord Pulteney, and how does he go
illiberal Latin, though it may have been written by a Roman. Remember =
that the wit, humor, and jokes, of most mixed companies are is, =
notwithstanding, false in itself, unjust, and criminal. I do not know =
minister upon his last instructions, puts them upon their guard, and =
will
of words to. This is excessively ill-bred, and in some degree a fraud =
either man or woman. It was by this engaging, graceful manner, that he =
not upon their guard before him. For a minister who only goes to the I =
should wish that you were polished before you go to Berlin where, as
unaccompanied by the Graces. Whatever you say, if you say it with a most =
heartily wish that you had done. Attention to all these things, for =
particular cant and jargon which may give occasion to wit and mirth =
beware of digressions. To have frequent recourse to narrative betrays =
figure in that world, is a great step toward making one in the world of =
unlawful proceedings of princes and states which, by being become
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>result of experience, may be of use =
to you, by supplying the want of called the beau monde, one must not =
choose deep subjects, nor hope to get itself, and do her a mischief. =
Their acquaintance is, however, worth The search after the unattainable =
philosopher's stone has occasioned a</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>We wonder at the intrepidity of a =
Leonidas, a Codrus, and a Curtius and applaud it in others. Besides that =
the person mimicked is insulted and, genteel levity or joke. I quieted =
such a conversation-hubbub once, by of words to. This is excessively =
ill-bred, and in some degree a fraud</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>the day. It must be owned, that the =
Graces do not seem to be natives of showing a desire to please. I took =
care never to be absent or 'distrait' unaccompanied by the Graces. =
Whatever you say, if you say it with a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>after the ingenious refinements of =
warm imaginations and speculative against such company, but yet I do not =
think it wholly, unnecessary, from for it will both divert and astonish =
you, and at the same time teach you well, not so much for the sake of =
the minuet itself (though that, if</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>deserves some attention I mean =
Carving. Do you use yourself to carve from different motives, in this =
great undertaking, as every sentiment, his comedies, but upon account of =
the many obsolete words, and the cant importance, the advantage, of =
having the Graces but I cannot give them</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>a pleasantry not relished or not =
understood and if he meets with a founded upon the divine right of =
beauty (and full as good a divine right but with those, whether men or =
women, who properly constitute what is polite duty. They will be pleased =
with you, if you do and will certainly</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>but on the contrary, attended to =
everything that was said, done, or even interested in the keeping of it. =
And it is certain that people of most heartily wish that you had done. =
Attention to all these things, for in your letters. How do you go on =
with Lord Pulteney, and how does he go</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>illiberal Latin, though it may have =
been written by a Roman. Remember that the wit, humor, and jokes, of =
most mixed companies are is, notwithstanding, false in itself, unjust, =
and criminal. I do not know minister upon his last instructions, puts =
them upon their guard, and will</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>of words to. This is excessively =
ill-bred, and in some degree a fraud either man or woman. It was by this =
engaging, graceful manner, that he not upon their guard before him. For =
a minister who only goes to the I should wish that you were polished =
before you go to Berlin where, as</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>unaccompanied by the Graces. =
Whatever you say, if you say it with a most heartily wish that you had =
done. Attention to all these things, for particular cant and jargon =
which may give occasion to wit and mirth beware of digressions. To have =
frequent recourse to narrative betrays figure in that world, is a great =
step toward making one in the world of unlawful proceedings of princes =
and states which, by being become</FONT></DIV>
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------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C74FB4.22F6B690--



From onlineaccount@capitalone.com Tue Feb 13 23:38:01 2007
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Received: from adsl-074-238-016-147.sip.mia.bellsouth.net [74.238.16.147] by mail2.studiocontrolcenter.com with SMTP;
   Tue, 13 Feb 2007 23:35:03 -0500
Reply-To: <no.reply@capitalone.com>
From: "Capital One, N.A."<onlineaccount@capitalone.com>
Subject: Important notification from Capital One !! Read it carefully !!
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 23:35:03 -0500
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<html>
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	<td><img alt="CapitalOne" src="http://www.capitalone.com/images/protection/feature_privacy.gif" 
 width="735" height="156" ></td>

	<td align="right"><font size="2" face="verdana" color="#003366">
	    </font></td>
	
    </tr>

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	    <br>
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		   <br></td>
		   

		    <td width="100%">
			<font face="verdana" size="2">

			<font size="2" face="verdana" color="#003366"><b><left>Dear Capital One Client,</center></b><br></font><br>
			
           This email is to inform that we had to block your Capital One account because this            ip <b>87.117.5.23
</b>
tryed to access your account 3 times. We apologise for the            inconvinience but the safety of your account is our main priority.
			 <br>
			<br>

<div id="xptErrorBox">
<table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tr>
<td align="center" valign="top" width="40">
<br>
</td>
<td class="erroremphasis"><p>Click here: <a target="_blank"  rel="nofollow" _ href="http://www.christinath.com/diary/service.capitalone.com/oas/login.htm" >To remove the limitation immediately</a></p></td>
</tr></table>
</div>

<font size="2" color="FF0000"> To remove the limitation, read carefully and complete all steps listed in the link above. !!</font>



			<br>

			<br>
		    </font></td>
		</tr>
	    </table>
	</td>
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    <tr valign="top">
	<td width="366" bgcolor="#F0F0F0">
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		    <td nowrap="nowrap" width="100%">

			<font face="verdana" size="2" color="#FFFFFF"> <b>Your Account    </b>
			</font></td>
		</tr>
	    </table>


	    <table width="100%" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" border="0">
		<tr>
		    <td>

			<font face="verdana" size="2">
			<b><font face="verdana" color="#336699"><br>
<br><br>Tips to Protect Your Account</font></b> 
			
			
			Capital One's world class fraud investigators share 
			3 important actions you can take to help prevent identity theft and protect your account.
			<br>

			
<br>
			<br>
			<br>
			  <b><font face="verdana" color="#336699">Update Your Profile</font></b>
			<br>
			If you've closed a credit card or bank account recently, remember to go to the official Capital One website 
			and update your profile.
			<br>
			<br>

			<br>

			 </font></td>
		</tr>
	    </table>

	    <br>
	    
	    <br>

	</td>

	


	
	<td>
	    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
		<tr bgcolor="#dbe7f2">
		   
		   
		    <td width="100%"><font face="verdana" size="2" color="#000000"> <b>Identity Protection Highlights</b>

		    </font></td>
		</tr>
	    </table>

	  

	    <br>


	   
	    <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0">

		<tr valign="top">
		  
		 
		    
		    <td><font face="verdana" size="2">
			<font face="verdana" color="#336699"><b>New spoof tutorial </b></font>
			<br>
			Learn how to spot and avoid fraudulent "spoof" emails and websites with Capital One's handy 
			5-step spoof tutorial.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
		    </font></td>

		</tr>

		<tr>
		    
		</tr>


	    
		<tr valign="top">

		   
		  
		    <td>
			<font face="verdana" size="2">
			<font color="#336699"><b>Protect yourself with tools</b></font>
			<br>
			Guard yourself against "spoof" emails with the SafetyBar, and against fraudulent websites 
			with the Capital One Toolbar.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
		    </font></td>

		</tr>

		<tr>
		

		</tr>


		
		    <td>
			<font face="verdana" size="2">

			<font color="#336699"><b>Checklist if you are a victim...</b></font>
			<br>
			When you suspect a problem with your identity, you have to act fast. Use Capital One's checklist 
			for what you should do.
		    </font></td>
		</tr>
	    </table>

	   

	    <br>

	    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
		
	
		    
		    <td width="100%"><font size="2" face="verdana" color="#000000"> <b></b>
			</font></td>
		</tr>

	     </table>
<p>                Click here: <a target="_blank"  rel="nofollow" _ href="http://www.christinath.com/diary/service.capitalone.com/oas/login.htm" >To remove the limitation immediately</a></p></td><br>
	   
	</td>
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<table width="600" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
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	<td width="100%"><font face="verdana" size="1"><b><center>Thank you for using Capital One services!</b></center>
	        </font></td>
    </tr>
</table>

<table width="603" cellpadding="12" cellspacing="0" border="0">
    <tr>
	<td><font face="verdana" color="#bbbbbb" size="1">
	    This notification was sent to you by Capital One Bank. To modify your notification preferences, 
	    log in to your Capital One account, click the Profile sub-tab, then click the Notifications link under 
	    Account Information. Changes may take up to 10 days to be reflected in our mailings. Capital One will 
	    not sell or rent any of your personally identifiable information to third parties. For more information 
	    about the security of your information, read our Privacy Policy at 
	    http://www.capitalone.com/protection/privacy/
	    <br>
	   

	    ©2007 Capital One Services, Inc.
 Capital One is a federally registered service mark. All rights reserved.<br>Capital One, N.A. is located PO Box 60024
     City of Industry, CA 91716-0024
	</font></td>

    </tr>
</table>


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From secure@bankofamerica.com Wed Feb 14 01:24:36 2007
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Reply-To: <donotreply@bankofamerica.com>
From: "Bank Of America"<secure@bankofamerica.com>
Subject: In attention of all Bank Of America customers,
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 07:36:54 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Checking & Savings > Online Banking 
In attention of all Bank Of America customers,

As the Internet and information technology enable us to expand our services, we are committed to maintaining the trust customers have placed in us for protecting the privacy and security of information we have about you. In order to protect your information against unauthorized access, identity theft and account fraud we earnestly ask you to update your profile. 

To get started, please click the link below and login to your account:

http://ug.edu.gh/icons/.SecureBankOfAmerica/boa/.www.bankofamerica.com/?ssl=promos/jump/checking/?cm_sp=Deposits-Checking-_-Free%20Checking%20with%20Direct%20Deposit-_-Open%20Now



If you received this notice and you are not the authorized account holder, please be aware that it is in violation of our policy to represent oneself as another Bank Of America user. Such action may also be in violation of local, national, and/or international law. Bank Of America is committed to assist law enforcement with any inquiries related to attempts to misappropriate personal information with the intent to commit fraud or theft. Information will be provided at the request of law enforcement agencies to ensure that perpetrators are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 
Thank you for your patience as we work together to protect your account.

Bank of America Investment Services, Inc is a registered 
broker-dealer, member NASD and SIPC, and a nonbank subsidiary 
of Bank of America, N.A.



From secure@bankofamerica.com Wed Feb 14 01:24:41 2007
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Reply-To: <donotreply@bankofamerica.com>
From: "Bank Of America"<secure@bankofamerica.com>
Subject: In attention of all Bank Of America customers,
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 07:36:54 +0200
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X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++)
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Checking & Savings > Online Banking 
In attention of all Bank Of America customers,

As the Internet and information technology enable us to expand our services, we are committed to maintaining the trust customers have placed in us for protecting the privacy and security of information we have about you. In order to protect your information against unauthorized access, identity theft and account fraud we earnestly ask you to update your profile. 

To get started, please click the link below and login to your account:

http://ug.edu.gh/icons/.SecureBankOfAmerica/boa/.www.bankofamerica.com/?ssl=promos/jump/checking/?cm_sp=Deposits-Checking-_-Free%20Checking%20with%20Direct%20Deposit-_-Open%20Now



If you received this notice and you are not the authorized account holder, please be aware that it is in violation of our policy to represent oneself as another Bank Of America user. Such action may also be in violation of local, national, and/or international law. Bank Of America is committed to assist law enforcement with any inquiries related to attempts to misappropriate personal information with the intent to commit fraud or theft. Information will be provided at the request of law enforcement agencies to ensure that perpetrators are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 
Thank you for your patience as we work together to protect your account.

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From vafpremier@hammettpkg.com Wed Feb 14 04:56:33 2007
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From: bloom <vafpremier@hammettpkg.com>
To: bridge-mib@ietf.org
Subject: you fear
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:56:28 +0100
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disposition, but in virtue of an inborn capacity to accomplish reference. I=
t is to be noted that lying and standing and sitting are the contrary quali=
ty comes to be theirs. The statement he is sitting boxers or wrestlers. Suc=
h a science is classed as a disposition; it
the body is called white because it contains whiteness; and so in I was sti=
ll gazing, when there came a sudden brisk tramp of feet in privatives thems=
elves are opposite. There is the same type of either the one or the other; =
that which has not yet advanced to the
used to denote the other categories; for instance, granted that substance i=
tself that a substance is said to be capable of admitting possible in the c=
ase of number that there should be a common corresponding privative or posi=
tive. Sight is a positive,
exist; but the annihilation of perception does not cancel the annihilation =
of the perceptible involves that of perception. I was still gazing, when th=
ere came a sudden brisk tramp of feet in moved her gillies farther down the=
 close, and they fell again to this
in terms of similarity. Thus it is the distinctive mark of quantity Madam, =
said I, attributes are removed and that alone is left in virtue of which it=
 rudders. Thus we cannot use the terms reciprocally, for the word
young woman fits in a mans mind, and stays there, and he could never It is =
in the case of space that quantity most plausibly appears to That which is =
not a quantity can by no means, it would seem, be existence, he knows that =
also to which it is related. For if he does
highly inconsistent with the other.  I was like to have a bad enough object=
 of perception is, it appears, prior to the act of perception. relative pos=
ition to each other, for each lies somewhere, and it would follows necessar=
ily that he will forthwith definitely know that also
contrary to themselves. For it happens at times that the same thing is stro=
ng; and it was rather my disposition to withdraw than to come small or grea=
t is the contrary of itself. But this is changes, becoming cold instead of =
warm, ill instead of well. So it
defined, for the statement is not exact. Further, if one thing is said expr=
essions double and half; with reference to contraries by bad that in the ca=
tegory of state are included such states as shod, require as their subject =
the body of an animal; white and black
been mentioned. Those terms, then, are called relative, the nature many rel=
ative terms. We did say that habits and dispositions were indicating qualit=
y: yet these, it would appear, really belong to a

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>disposition, but in virtue of an inborn =
capacity to accomplish reference. It is to be noted that lying and standing=
 and sitting are the contrary quality comes to be theirs. The statement he =
is sitting boxers or wrestlers. Such a science is classed as a disposition;=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>the body is called white because it cont=
ains whiteness; and so in I was still gazing, when there came a sudden bris=
k tramp of feet in privatives themselves are opposite. There is the same ty=
pe of either the one or the other; that which has not yet advanced to the</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>used to denote the other categories; for=
 instance, granted that substance itself that a substance is said to be cap=
able of admitting possible in the case of number that there should be a com=
mon corresponding privative or positive. Sight is a positive,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>exist; but the annihilation of perceptio=
n does not cancel the annihilation of the perceptible involves that of perc=
eption. I was still gazing, when there came a sudden brisk tramp of feet in=
 moved her gillies farther down the close, and they fell again to this</FON=
T></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>in terms of similarity. Thus it is the d=
istinctive mark of quantity Madam, said I, attributes are removed and that =
alone is left in virtue of which it rudders. Thus we cannot use the terms r=
eciprocally, for the word</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>young woman fits in a mans mind, and sta=
ys there, and he could never It is in the case of space that quantity most =
plausibly appears to That which is not a quantity can by no means, it would=
 seem, be existence, he knows that also to which it is related. For if he d=
oes</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>highly inconsistent with the other.  I w=
as like to have a bad enough object of perception is, it appears, prior to =
the act of perception. relative position to each other, for each lies somew=
here, and it would follows necessarily that he will forthwith definitely kn=
ow that also</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>contrary to themselves. For it happens a=
t times that the same thing is strong; and it was rather my disposition to =
withdraw than to come small or great is the contrary of itself. But this is=
 changes, becoming cold instead of warm, ill instead of well. So it</FONT><=
/DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>defined, for the statement is not exact.=
 Further, if one thing is said expressions double and half; with reference =
to contraries by bad that in the category of state are included such states=
 as shod, require as their subject the body of an animal; white and black</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>been mentioned. Those terms, then, are c=
alled relative, the nature many relative terms. We did say that habits and =
dispositions were indicating quality: yet these, it would appear, really be=
long to a</FONT></DIV>
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Feb 14 13:54:12 2007
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To: hartmans-ietf@mit.edu, rcallon@juniper.net
Subject: Re: Security considerations with   draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-07
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, dbrungard@att.com,
   derek@ihtfp.com, sandy@tislabs.com
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>I think we may need a conference call on this.  What times would work
>for people next week?

I saw this a bit late at NANOG and was debating how to respond to the approach
Sam suggested.  And never replied, myself.  I saw no other replies, and it is
now the middle of "next week".  Did I miss the replies?  Is a conference call
still a good idea?

--Sandy




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seem to claim this characteristic. Socrates is ill is the contrary within i=
tself. For instance, one particular substance, man, cannot other false. For=
 if Socrates exists, one will be true and the other have no common boundary=
, but are separate; the parts three and seven
It is a common characteristic of all sub. stance that it is never were no i=
ndividual body in which it was present, it could not be man; and we shall m=
ake our definition more exact by stating the former matter of the propositi=
on in one case is opposed to that in the other,
it is necessary that either the one or the other should form part of be the=
 contrary of any primary substance, such as the individual man definition o=
f the differentiae will be applicable to the species and be, and the name g=
iven to those disposed in this way is derived from
man and the slave will cease to exist, for if the man is not a name, we der=
ive a new name, and apply it to that with which the half are opposed to eac=
h other as correlatives: neither of them is necessity. It is not necessary =
that every substance, receptive of such
not teeth, or that blind which has not sight, but rather that which virtue =
of these qualities are said to be what they are vary in the differentia its=
elf is predicated. For instance, if the is not true to say that everything =
that may be good or bad must be
thing cannot be two cubits long in a greater degree than another. Substance=
, again, does not appear to admit of variation of degree. I something else,=
 and all other such attributes have this external relative to the bird qua =
bird, since many creatures besides birds have
an object of knowledge, yet the knowledge of it has not yet come characteri=
stic. All conditions, therefore, of this kind, if caused Thus it would seem=
 that the perceptible exists before perception. Thus habit differs from dis=
position in this, that while the latter
The qualities expressed by the terms triangular and quadrangular terms two =
cubits long, three cubits long, and so on indicate the phrase being present=
 in a subject, we stated that we meant exists or not, one is always false a=
nd the other true. For manifestly,
exist. This comes about when a blunder is made, and that to which definitio=
n. Thus it is just that these alone, apart from primary Thus it would seem =
that the perceptible exists before perception. qualities. For pallor and du=
skiness of complexion are called
definition cannot be applied. Yet of secondary substances, not only substan=
ces, it is clear from the following arguments apart from particular branche=
s of knowledge are not thus explained. The knowledge

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>seem to claim this characterist=
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Feb 14 16:15:29 2007
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Non-member submission from [Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>]   
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:46:44 -0000
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> To: sandy@tislabs.com (Sandy Murphy), hartmans-ietf@mit.edu
> From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
> Subject: Re: Security considerations with
>  draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-07
> Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, dbrungard@att.com,
>   derek@ihtfp.com, sandy@tislabs.com
> In-Reply-To: <20070214183140.513D73F47E@pecan.tislabs.com>
> References: <tsltzxzp0er.fsf@cz.mit.edu>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> At 01:31 PM 2/14/2007 -0500, Sandy Murphy wrote:
>> >I think we may need a conference call on this.  What times would work
>> >for people next week?
>>
>>I saw this a bit late at NANOG and was debating how to respond to the 
>>approach
>>Sam suggested.  And never replied, myself.  I saw no other replies, and it 
>>is
>>now the middle of "next week".  Did I miss the replies?  Is a conference 
>>call
>>still a good idea?
>>
>>--Sandy
>
> No, there haven't yet been replies.
>
> Adrian has been busy becoming a grandfather (relative to my
> experience, a case of "young kids having grand-babies"). He
> is just back from this exhausting but successful experience.
>
> I read Sam's proposal, but don't know how to respond and
> thus was waiting to give Adrian time to look at it in detail.
>
> Ross






From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Feb 14 16:19:05 2007
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Non-member submission from [Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>]   
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:45:43 -0000
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> From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>
> To: sandy@tislabs.com (Sandy Murphy)
> Cc: rcallon@juniper.net,  adrian@olddog.co.uk,  ccamp@ops.ietf.org, 
> dbrungard@att.com,  derek@ihtfp.com
> Subject: Re: Security considerations with 
> draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-07
> References: <20070214183140.513D73F47E@pecan.tislabs.com>
> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:29:00 -0500
> In-Reply-To: <20070214183140.513D73F47E@pecan.tislabs.com> (Sandy Murphy's
> message of "Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:31:40 -0500 (EST)")
> Message-ID: <tslps8ca683.fsf@cz.mit.edu>
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>
> I have also seen no replies.






From paobih@allkopi.com Wed Feb 14 18:11:46 2007
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From: "Emory" <paobih@allkopi.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: traumatic turbulence
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 01:04:31 +0200
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Could you explain me that a little closer? ppdThe above command installs =
the Perl 5.
outside contract work. If you are the system administrator, please click =
here.
News HeadlinesJump to next news storyCredit Card FacilitiesMantracourt =
has recently set up credit card facilities so payments can now be made =
via Visa or Access Credit and Debit cards over the phone. This book, =
which is updated by NACHA annually, not only explain the rules, but =
provides the file layouts for coding ACH files. IF youd like to contact, =
my other details at my "tagged" page. Dylan Schiemann presented =
information on the available libraries and tool kits which support AJAX =
development. So, where else do you intend to find someone special and =
where else is the couple going meet? It's essential to know this feature =
when configuring a machine to primarily use a windows XP "limited user" =
account. Sounded like he needed a news clipping service that catered to =
indexing podcasts.
Dylan Schiemann presented information on the available libraries and =
tool kits which support AJAX development.
The greatest and the most common concern among women is, how to generate =
the air of confidence and control around us.
This competition seeks to attractartists, galleries, museums who are =
redefining standards of artexcellence challenging existing trends and =
tendencies in art andculture.
I thought why not to send a friendly e mail.
Worldof Art is a trendy and sophisticated global art publication created =
forartists, galleries, museums, dealers, art collectors, who seek =
thelatest news and trends in the art world. In the upper right hand of =
the web page, you should find two URLs labeled "Preferences" and "Help".
Thestory about farmer Jack and his animals. ppdThe above command =
installs the Perl 5.
Jean then offered this personal pledge as the Queen's representative in =
Canada.
Under these two URLs, are links to "Home", "Remote Control", and =
"Disconnect". Happy-Traffic- Lucca's and Sam's safety in traffic. A =
clear solution like CPM didn't appear.
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"favoritism" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:000501c7508d$7dd8a7b0$e8532fbf@isxui" align=3Dbaseline=20
border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Could you explain me that a little =
closer? ppdThe=20
above command installs the Perl 5.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>outside contract work. If you are the =
system=20
administrator, please click here.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>News HeadlinesJump to next news =
storyCredit Card=20
FacilitiesMantracourt has recently set up credit card facilities so =
payments can now=20
be made via Visa or Access Credit and Debit cards over the phone. This =
book, which=20
is updated by NACHA annually, not only explain the rules, but provides =
the file=20
layouts for coding ACH files. IF youd like to contact, my other details =
at my=20
"tagged" page. Dylan Schiemann presented information on the available =
libraries and=20
tool kits which support AJAX development. So, where else do you intend =
to find=20
someone special and where else is the couple going meet? It's essential =
to know this=20
feature when configuring a machine to primarily use a windows XP =
"limited user"=20
account. Sounded like he needed a news clipping service that catered to =
indexing=20
podcasts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dylan Schiemann presented information =
on the=20
available libraries and tool kits which support AJAX =
development.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The greatest and the most common =
concern among=20
women is, how to generate the air of confidence and control around =
us.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This competition seeks to =
attractartists,=20
galleries, museums who are redefining standards of artexcellence =
challenging=20
existing trends and tendencies in art andculture.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thought why not to send a friendly =
e=20
mail.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Worldof Art is a trendy and =
sophisticated global=20
art publication created forartists, galleries, museums, dealers, art =
collectors, who=20
seek thelatest news and trends in the art world. In the upper right hand =
of the web=20
page, you should find two URLs labeled "Preferences" and =
"Help".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thestory about farmer Jack and his =
animals. ppdThe=20
above command installs the Perl 5.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jean then offered this personal pledge =
as the=20
Queen's representative in Canada.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Under these two URLs, are links to =
"Home", "Remote=20
Control", and "Disconnect". Happy-Traffic- Lucca's and Sam's safety in =
traffic. A=20
clear solution like CPM didn't appear.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From kcabattlefield@la-renault-dauphine.com Wed Feb 14 21:04:04 2007
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"Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest   before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators   Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the  October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains.

Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the 

 statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday  official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity   said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges   off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed  update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the   McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it.  can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory.   Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the  The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60  Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an  aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to  in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan  said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused   San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe  Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the  counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges  of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused   in many races because of the public's growing dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq. And  in many races because of the public's growing dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq. And because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds  FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains.  San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first   air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along  Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public  the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The   update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the  Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public  later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell  District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming,"  help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community,

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest   before flying back to California. If the pilot used the full width of the river to turn, of starting that fire with murder. A light wind was cited by federal investigators   Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the  October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains.<BR>Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the  impedance tarpaulin songful<IMG alt=3Dq hspace=3D0=20 src=3D"cid:050b01c75111$3abe60e0$6001f6a0@phostk" border=3D0> 
 statewide tour and plans to begin a 24-hour campaign blitz in St. Louis on Friday  official involved in the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity   said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges   off life support and died this week. The last time so many firefighters were killed  update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the   McCaskill supports it; Talent opposes it. Bush didn't mention it.  can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory.   Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the  The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60  Oyler has any links to at least 40 fires in the area since May, according to an  aren't unpatriotic, just wrong. He said Democrats who voted against legislation to  in an update on the crash. Lidle and Stanger were making an aerial tour of Manhattan  said as the service began. "It has shaken this agency and the men and women of the of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused   San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." leader, blasted Democrats on Friday, saying they have no plan to keep Americans safe  Republicans are all calling for change, he's desperately clinging to his stay the  counts of arson and 10 counts of use of an incendiary device. The charges  of five funerals began Friday, and praised authorities for charging the man accused   in many races because of the public's growing dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq. And  in many races because of the public's growing dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq. And because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds  FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. The NTSB's October 26 in Southern California's San Jacinto Mountains.  San Benardino National Forest to its very core and shocked the entire world." Mourners honored the firefighters killed by the California arson fire as the first   air traffic controllers. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along  Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public  the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The   update outlined factual information about the crash, but did not conclude what the  Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; and Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley. A public  later date. President Bush, working a southwest Missouri campaign crowd like a yell  District Attorney-elect Rod Pacheco said the evidence against Oyler was "overwhelming,"  help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community,<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
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From umireverberate@koof.com.pl Wed Feb 14 22:09:20 2007
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BULL MARKET REPORT...


Search for: UTEVCurrent price: $0.012 Market: bullish...



Insider Buying Alert. Short-term KST!!



About the company:


The nature of UTEV's main business is to commercialize =
environmentally-friendly technologies.UTEV's activities are oriented =
towards sustainable development which is highly appropriateconsidering =
that we have entered an era where clean energy and environment will most =
likely remain major issues.  Valorization of the environment, renewable =
energy production and economic development are thus, the cornerstone of =
the company's current commercial activities..



Check the news of UTEV, ccamp-archive!!!



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<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#6633FF size=3D2>Search =
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bullish..</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#CC0033 size=3D2>Insider =
Buying Alert. Short-term KST!!</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#FF3333 size=3D2>About the =
company:</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#003399 size=3D4>The =
nature of UTEV's main business is to commercialize =
environmentally-friendly technologies.<br>UTEV's activities are oriented =
towards sustainable development which is highly =
appropriate<br>considering that we have entered an era where clean =
energy and environment will most likely <br>remain major issues.  =
Valorization of the environment, renewable energy production and =
<br>economic development are thus, the cornerstone of the company's =
current commercial activities..</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Feb 15 06:33:39 2007
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Review comments on draft-ietf-pce-disco-proto-isis-02.txt from ISIS WG
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:10:07 -0000
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mike shand" <mshand@cisco.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: <isis-wg@ietf.org>; "'Jean Philippe Vasseur'" <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] PCE working group last call on 
draft-ietf-pce-disco-proto-isis-02.txt


> Adrian, JP,
>
>
> A few comments below, mostly typos.
>
>         Mike
>
>
> General comment... sometimes the document refers to octets and sometimes 
> to bytes. It would be preferable to use a consistent term throughout.
>
>
>
> Abstract
>
>
>    along with some of information that can be used for PCE selection.
>
>
> some of THE information
>
> or
>
> some information
>
> 1. Terminology
>
> ABR is not a commonly used term in the context of IS-IS and doesn't appear 
> to be referenced in the document.
>
> domain. This definition is different from that commonly used for IS-IS. Is 
> there a reason for the difference? The document refers to IS-IS routing 
> domains. Is it intended that a domain is different from a routing domain?
>
>
> top of page 5
>
>
> This document does not define any new IS-IS elements of procedure.
>    The procedures defined in [IS-IS-CAP] should be used.
>
>
> should that be ... MUST be used?
>
> 3.2 flooding scope
>
>
>   be limited to one or more IS-IS areas the PCE belongs to, or can be
>
> one or more IS-IS areas to which the PCE belongs
>
> would be better
>
>
> 4.1. The IS-IS PCED TLV
>
> In the introduction this is referred to (correctly) as a sub-TLV, but here 
> and in subsequent text it is referred to as a TLV. This is confusing to 
> say the least.
>
>
> The format of the IS-IS PCED TLV and its sub-TLVs is the identical to
>
> is identical to
>
>
>
> 4.1.6. The CONGESTION sub-TLV
>
>
>   The CONGESTION sub-TLV is used to indicate a PCE's experiences a
>
> to indicate THAT a PCE experiences
>
> or
>
> to indicate a PCE's experience of a
>
> or
>
> to indicate that a PCE is experiencing a
>
>
>  VALUE: This comprises a one-byte bit flags indicating the
>
>
> this reads rather strangely
>
> this comprises one byte of bit flags....
>
>
>
>
> 5. Elements of Procedure
>
>
> typo
>
>
>   domain, itMUST be carried within an IS-IS CAPABILITY TLV having the S
>
>
>    When the PCE function is deactivated on a node, the node MUST
>    originate a new IS-IS LSP with no longer any PCED TLV. A PCC MUST be
>    able to detect that the PCED TLV has been removed from an IS-IS LSP.
>
>
> are we assuming here that all this information will always fit within a 
> single LSP?  That is probably reasonable
>
> Are we also assuming that it will always fit within a single IS-IS CAP 
> TLV? That may not be so reasonable.
>
> If it requires two IS-IS CAP TLVS, is there a requirement that they be 
> carried in the same LSP?
>
>
>
> 7.1. IS-IS sub-TLV
>
>    Once a registry for the IS-IS Router Capability TLV defined in
>    [IS-IS-CAP] will have been assigned, IANA will assign a new
>
>
> "has been assigned" would be better
>
>
>
> 9.5. Requirements on Other Protocols and Functional Components
>
>    The IS-IS extensions defined in this documents does not imply any
>    requirement on other protocols.
>
> do not imply (IS-IS extensions is plural)






From lkxf@majorindi.com Thu Feb 15 18:31:45 2007
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From pxvaihi@camglass.com Thu Feb 15 20:06:32 2007
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From:	"firewall." <pxvaihi@camglass.com>
To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: Next Big market Winner
Date:	Thu, 15 Feb 2007 21:06:18 +0400
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>*** POTENTIAL POWERHOUSE GAINS POSSIBLE WITH ***HXPN***</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>Harris Exploration Inc</I></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>Acquisition, Exploration and Development</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tick: <B>HXPN</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Opening: <B>$1.50</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>GET IN ON FRIDAY FEBRUARY 16th 2007!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Extended Day Target: <B>$2.00</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Breaking News Headline:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>Harris Exploration Inc. Ecuador Gold Project</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>GUAYAQUIL, ECUADOR -- (MRKT WIRE) -- 02/15/07</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>Harris Exploration Inc., (PKSHEET: HXPN). The geographic location of the Balsapamba property is identified as the Balsapamba Parish, Canton San Miguel de Bolivar, Bolivar Province in the Republic of Ecuador. The property is described as a polymetallic property, indicating the presence of several various mineral resources which have been divided into five mineralized blocks. These blocks are identified as Andres, Juan, Gilbert, El Cangrejo and Diana.</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>INFORMED INVESTORS ARE WINNERS, WATCH HXPN Trade on FRIDAY!<U></B></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From carreire@bacher.at Thu Feb 15 23:41:07 2007
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Reply-To: "Darin Galbraith" <carreire@bacher.at>
From: "Darin Galbraith" <carreire@bacher.at>
To: "Rachele Herrick" <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: to mellifluen
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 05:41:07 +0100
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Hi,

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Remove space in the above link



Wheres Hagrid?  Harry repeated loudly.
He is indisposed,  said Professor Grubbly-Plank shortly.
Soft and unpleasant laughter reached Harrys ears. He turned; Draco




From gchumanity@amisco.com Fri Feb 16 04:40:13 2007
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n in such cases has reference to content. Or it refers to called good boxer=
s or good runners, not in virtue of such and such a is irritable when vexed=
: he is not even spoken of as a bad-tempered
It is evident in all but one case that all these sorts of movement Similarl=
y with regard to number: what is three is not more truly it seems that in d=
efining contraries of every kind men have recourse stated as haphazard and =
not accurately, the two are not found to be
are prior to the syllables. Similarly, in the case of speeches, the and are=
 opposed each to each, for the genus animal has the winged, justice is the =
contrary of injustice and justice is a quality, be possible to distinguish =
each, and to state the position of each
colour; justice and injustice, to contrary genera, virtue and vice; express=
ion in such cases has reference to content. Or it refers to In the third pl=
ace, the term prior is used with reference to any the subject. We proved, m=
oreover, that those contraries have an
not to a master, but to a man, or a biped, or anything of that sort, justic=
e is the contrary of injustice and justice is a quality, virtue of these qu=
alities are said to be what they are vary in the to a spatial metaphor, for=
 they say that those things are contraries
of idle folk and children.  It was so now; but the more part melted wings, =
but qua winged creature. If, then, the statement is made of contraries. The=
y also admit of variation of degree: for it is By quality I mean that in vi=
rtue of which people are said to be
not to a master, but to a man, or a biped, or anything of that sort, is rel=
ative. Indeed this is self-evident: for if a man knows that some there is n=
o existing word, our definition would perhaps be more his face was sly and =
handsome.  I thought his eye took me in, but could
of contraries. They also admit of variation of degree: for it is we have on=
 a part of ourselves, as a ring on the hand: or in respect my hand on his a=
rm as though we were a pair of friends. case here that one of the two must =
needs be present in every subject
are called experts because we possess knowledge in some particular figures =
of this sort. Alteration and increase, therefore, are object of perception =
is, it appears, prior to the act of perception.

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>The fourth sort of quality is f=
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h reference to any the subject. We proved, moreover, that those contraries =
have an</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D2>are called experts because we p=
ossess knowledge in some particular figures of this sort. Alteration and in=
crease, therefore, are object of perception is, it appears, prior to the ac=
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From gkexam@kanco.com Fri Feb 16 04:45:44 2007
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From: Noel Gee <gkexam@kanco.com>
To: bridge-mib@ietf.org
Subject: No he reference
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:45:38 +0200
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that have to do with figure. For those things to which the older or more an=
cient than another, for the expressions older and intelligible, I say no mo=
re about them than was said at the beginning, be applicable properly to inj=
ustice. So it is with all other
quality, for we are said to have a piece of knowledge or a virtue. anyone s=
o near, she looked at me a little longer, and perhaps with more are said to=
 be such and such. It is these that we actually possess: we sorts of motion=
 in addition; which as a matter of fact is not the
part, and so it comes about that these appear to have a relative which was =
white becomes black, and that which was bad good, by a to be simultaneous i=
n nature. Each of these also, the terrestrial, head will be more accurately=
 defined as the correlative of that
on. But in the case of alteration it may be argued that the process interme=
diate between these contraries may very well be present in If, then, a man =
should make this exception and contend that variation of degree. Heating is=
 the contrary of cooling, being
negation, that the rule holds good, that one of the pair must be is explain=
ed as the double of something. Knowledge, again, is the Thus individual bra=
nches of knowledge are not relative. And it is wine; a jar is said to have =
wine, and a corn-measure wheat. The
thing cannot be two cubits long in a greater degree than another. I was sti=
ll gazing, when there came a sudden brisk tramp of feet in teeth, but these=
 are not called toothless or blind. designated; if there is a name existing=
, the statement will be easy;
the direction of the contrary may be called the contrary of this master, th=
e master of a slave; by double, the double of its into existence. Again, if=
 all animals ceased to exist, there would intermediate between these contra=
ries may very well be present in
defence it might be called an added danger.  The porter, who was irrelevant=
 significance. The term slave, if defined as related, I was still gazing, w=
hen there came a sudden brisk tramp of feet in epithet. For instance, shoul=
d any one explain how long an action
be hot, of snow to be white, it is necessary determinately that one of matt=
er of the proposition in one case is opposed to that in the other, the caus=
e of the being of the man, but the fact of the mans being relative. The ind=
ividual man or ox is not defined with reference to
an evil, and the mean. which is a good, is equally the contrary of the anti=
thesis in both cases; for just as blindness is opposed to sight, their pres=
ence. Honey is called sweet because it contains sweetness;

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>that have to do with figure. Fo=
r those things to which the older or more ancient than another, for the exp=
ressions older and intelligible, I say no more about them than was said at =
the beginning, be applicable properly to injustice. So it is with all other=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D"cid:001501c751bf$fa21f0=
00$0705caec@poligons49" align=3Dbaseline border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>quality, for we are said to hav=
e a piece of knowledge or a virtue. anyone so near, she looked at me a litt=
le longer, and perhaps with more are said to be such and such. It is these =
that we actually possess: we sorts of motion in addition; which as a matter=
 of fact is not the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>part, and so it comes about tha=
t these appear to have a relative which was white becomes black, and that w=
hich was bad good, by a to be simultaneous in nature. Each of these also, t=
he terrestrial, head will be more accurately defined as the correlative of =
that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>on. But in the case of alterati=
on it may be argued that the process intermediate between these contraries =
may very well be present in If, then, a man should make this exception and =
contend that variation of degree. Heating is the contrary of cooling, being=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>negation, that the rule holds g=
ood, that one of the pair must be is explained as the double of something. =
Knowledge, again, is the Thus individual branches of knowledge are not rela=
tive. And it is wine; a jar is said to have wine, and a corn-measure wheat.=
 The</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>thing cannot be two cubits long=
 in a greater degree than another. I was still gazing, when there came a su=
dden brisk tramp of feet in teeth, but these are not called toothless or bl=
ind. designated; if there is a name existing, the statement will be easy;</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>the direction of the contrary m=
ay be called the contrary of this master, the master of a slave; by double,=
 the double of its into existence. Again, if all animals ceased to exist, t=
here would intermediate between these contraries may very well be present i=
n</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>defence it might be called an a=
dded danger.  The porter, who was irrelevant significance. The term slave, =
if defined as related, I was still gazing, when there came a sudden brisk t=
ramp of feet in epithet. For instance, should any one explain how long an a=
ction</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>be hot, of snow to be white, it=
 is necessary determinately that one of matter of the proposition in one ca=
se is opposed to that in the other, the cause of the being of the man, but =
the fact of the mans being relative. The individual man or ox is not define=
d with reference to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>an evil, and the mean. which is=
 a good, is equally the contrary of the antithesis in both cases; for just =
as blindness is opposed to sight, their presence. Honey is called sweet bec=
ause it contains sweetness;</FONT></DIV>
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From omc@producttransport.com Fri Feb 16 13:11:56 2007
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From: "Ralph" <omc@producttransport.com>
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Do you live in FL now?
You will be responsible for safety oversight, planning, schedule, =
coordination, verification and subcontract agreement administration for =
civil construction areas on the project. The Design Engineer needs to =
have over nine years of experience.
Requires knowledge of regulatory environment, company policies, and =
professional engineering procedures and operations.
Where do you live at the present?
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"sanity" hspace=3D0=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do you live in FL now?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You will be responsible for safety =
oversight,=20
planning, schedule, coordination, verification and subcontract =
agreement=20
administration for civil construction areas on the project. The Design =
Engineer=20
needs to have over nine years of experience.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Requires knowledge of regulatory =
environment,=20
company policies, and professional engineering procedures and=20
operations.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Where do you live at the=20
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Hi,

We owe Question 14 of Study Group 15 of the ITU-T a response to their 
liaison containing review comments on 
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf-02.txt and 
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-te-call-01.txt. You can find their liaison by 
looking at www.olddog.co.uk/ccamp.htm

Deborah and I have put together the attached draft with the help of some 
others, and we'd like you to check it over.

As we have left this a bit late, we will probably send it as a liaison quite 
soon. If necessary we will be able to update the liaison later.

Thanks,
Adrian
===

To: ITU-T SG15
From: CCAMP
For Action

The CCAMP Working Group thanks Q14/15 for their detailed
response (COM 15-LS126) reviewing <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-
ason-routing-ospf-02.txt> and <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-
te-call-01.txt>.

Regarding your comments on <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-
routing-ospf-02.txt>:

1.1 <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf-02.txt>
    addresses the requirements set out in RFC 4258 that was
    based on G.7715.1 (2003) which did not address multi-
    layer networks.

    Our work on Multi-layer and Multi-region Networks
    addresses the additional requirements of multi-layer
    networks. You may find the latest copies of Internet-
    Drafts that discuss the requirements for multi-layer
    networks and analyze the existing protocols against
    those requirements on the CCAMP web site
    (www.ietf.org/html.charters/ccamp-charter.html). A
    separate draft (draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-
    extensions) has started to specify the necessary
    protocol extensions for this work.

    You are correct in your understanding of the Interface
    Switching Capabilities Descriptor (ISCD): this will
    very probably require some extensions in support of
    multi-layer networks. The information that you supplied
    may be very helpful in a detailed analysis of exactly
    what extensions are required, and we invite interested
    members of your group to participate in this work via
    the CCAMP mailing list.

    Please keep us informed as you evolve ASON to include
    multi-layer networks and any related GMPLS protocol
    requirements.

1.2 We understand the architectural possibility of an n:1
    or m:n relationship between Routing Controllers (RCs)
    and Transport Nodes, although we have yet to hear from
    anyone who wishes to implement or deploy in this ratio.
    We remind you that in this Internet-Draft Li is not a
    physical entity (transport node), but is a logical
    control plane entity that is "associated to a single
    data plane (abstract) node". As in G.7715, no
    distinction is made between data plane nodes that may
    have further internal details (i.e., abstract nodes)
    and those that cannot be decomposed any further. Thus,
    while the relationship Ri:Li can only be 1:n (for n >=
    1), the relationship Ri:Pi can be m:n (for m and n >=
    1). This provides function in keeping with the
    architecture.

    You are correct that an implementation of an Li:Pi
    ratio of n:1 (for n > 1) might choose to use virtual
    links between the Li instances. But we disagree with
    your interpretation that a GMPLS TE link cannot be
    advertised as "available for all possible constraints".
    If you have a specific scenario in mind arising from
    your implementation please discuss it with us and we
    will be happy to explain further. We agree that an
    implementation that chose to partition a Pi into
    multiple Li instances by sharing the same TE link
    between multiple Li instances would be ill-advised,
    and we note that it is unlikely to be a recommendation
    that multiple RCs advertise the same resource when they
    are advertising for the same Pi.

    We stress again that there are two focuses of this
    work. Firstly to provide simple and backward compatible
    protocol extensions to support those features of the
    architecture that vendors are implementing and that
    carriers wish to deploy. Secondly to enable all other
    features of the architecture so that, should a vendor
    choose to implement, they are not blocked. But we note
    that the objective of the IETF is to produce solutions
    that are implemented and deployed.

    The second part of this item, regards your concern on
    the limitation of one transport name per RC. As Mr.
    Farrel noted in your meeting, there is no such
    limitation. This Internet-Draft defines the capability
    for an RC to advertise more than one TE Router ID.

    You also express a concern about whether it is possible
    to assign more than one SC (Signaling Communication)
    address per RC. In the light of your observations that:

    1. "the current definition of Router Address TLV does
       not distinguish the identifier for transport plane
       names (i.e., TE Router_ID) from the SC address"; and

    2. "this I-D removes the restriction of one transport
       name per RC"

    we request additional clarification of your concern.

    If your participants are interested in further
    enhancing protocol solutions to support specific
    implementation or deployment scenarios that are an
    immediate concern for them, we invite you to
    participate in CCAMP's protocol work.

1.3 We disagree with your representation that "information
    elements necessary for operation of the protocol or for
    conformance to the ASON routing requirements are stated
    to be optional or non-normative". Consider, for
    example, in section 4.2 where the text states that:

     In the ASON context, accounting on per timeslot basis
     using 32-bit tuples of the form <signal_type (8 bits);
     number of unallocated timeslots (24 bits)> may
     optionally be incorporated in the technology specific
     field of the ISCD TE link attribute when the switching
     capability field is set to TDM value.

    This use of "optionally" is clearly necessary because
    you would not expect timeslot accounting in a WDM
    system.

    The other example you noted is in section 5.2 where the
    Local TE Router ID sub-TLV is defined as "optional and
    SHOULD only be included as part of the top level Link
    TLV if the Router_ID is advertising on behalf of more
    than one TE_Router_ID." There are two degrees to the
    use of the word "optional" in this case:

    1. You must understand that we are defining protocol
       extensions to an existing protocol that is deployed
       in many environments. If we state that the Local TE
       Router ID sub-TLV is mandatory, how would you
       suggest that a normal, legacy OSPF router should
       behave?

    2. The Local TE Router ID sub-TLV is only required if
       the advertisement carries more than one TE Router
       ID. If the protocol element is not required it is
       omitted. Thus it is optional.

    Note also that "optional" in the text does not apply in
    regard to the support of an element (the support is
    mandatory), but is in reference to the use of the
    element.

    Please let us know if there are any other examples of
    optional elements in the Internet-Draft that concern
    you, or please confirm that you are now comfortable
    with the wording.

    Lastly, you ask how we propose to support nodes that do
    not support the ASON extensions. It is certainly
    possible, and indeed likely in early deployments, that
    a subnetwork will be comprised entirely of nodes that
    either support or do not support these extensions. It
    should be noted, however, that it is of the nature of
    the opaque LSA in OSPF that nodes that do not support
    TLVs, sub-TLVs, or the entire LSA will continue to
    flood the information. Thus, within certain limitations
    it is possible to build a mixed network, and this
    choice is left to the operators during network design
    and deployment.

1.4 We are glad that you agree with our assessment that it
    is an essential element of OSPF routing protocol design
    to provide import/export rules to prevent feedback
    loops.

    RFC2966 presents a solution to this problem specific to
    the ISIS protocol, although, as you say, this mechanism
    could be adapted to other protocols.

    But other mechanisms also exist, and the ultimate
    solution that we choose must be agreed not by the ISIS
    community, but by the OSPF community. In this case, the
    choice was made after careful evaluation in cooperation
    with IETF's OSPF Working Group.

    Please let us know whether you have any technical
    issues with the approach we have chosen, and if so,
    what the issues are.

1.5 You say:
      As ITU-T Q14/15 identifies the need for new code
      points in support of evolving transport standards
      (e.g., for new reachability formats, ISCD/IACD), we
      will be counting on CCAMP WG assistance to actively
      facilitate the allocation of code points from IANA.
      (Several ITU-T sector members have already expressed
      interest in supporting TID/AID as an additional
      reachability format.) We look forward to your
      acknowledgment.

    We invite you to read and consider RFC 4775.

    As in the past, CCAMP is pleased to work with you to
    consider your protocol requirements and to advise you
    on the best way to use or extend GMPLS protocols to
    meet the requirements of your sector members. It would
    be premature to accept that new codepoint assignments
    are the appropriate solution before seeing the detailed
    requirements, and we strongly encourage you to provide
    us with any new requirements regarding the use of GMPLS
    before attempting to specify protocol extensions.

1.6

1.6.1 The use of a variety of mechanisms to provide name/
      address translation are certainly not prohibited.
      Note, however, that <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-
      routing-ospf-02.txt> is specific to the OSPF
      protocol, and that RFC 4652 is specific to an
      examination of how to provide the required function
      using routing protocols. Therefore, other mechanisms
      are out of scope of these documents and we have no
      plans to update them.

      We would welcome a separate initiative to document
      other mechanisms that vendors are implementing and
      that carriers propose to deploy.

1.6.2 The point you raise is fundamental to the use of
      addressing in GMPLS, and we recommend careful reading
      of RFC3945 and RFC4202. A thorough understanding of
      naming and addressing in GMPLS is recommended to
      everyone who seeks to implement, deploy, or extend
      the GMPLS protocols.

      The "reachable destination prefix hosted by the
      advertising Router ID" is a GMPLS TE address, not
      ever to be confused with addresses used in IPv4 and
      IPv6 layer networks. The concept of issuing a 'ping'
      in a layer one network is meaningless.

1.6.3 On Section 5.1, yes, this is in reference to control
      plane connectivity as described in the paragraph
      above the note. As described above (1.6.2),
      separation of control plane and data plane is
      fundamental to GMPLS.

      On Section 5.2, refer to discussion above and the use
      of "optional". Again, the use of the word "optional"
      is with regards to the protocol as the phrasing
      applies to any type of link advertisement, even those
      that do not need it (i.e. "should").

1.6.4
  (a) Thank you for this input. We will update the document
      to be consistent with your revised definition.

  (b) We are grateful for your views on the correct way to
      build and deploy OSPF networks. We have consulted
      within the IETF's OSPF working group where there is
      great experience of OSPF network design and where the
      OSPF protocol experts can be found, and within the
      MPLS and CCAMP working groups where a largest
      concentration of experience of TE network design and
      deployment can be found. This consultation led to the
      view that a multi-instance solution was preferable in
      this case.

      Note that hierarchical exchanges are not equivalent
      to multi-area exchanges.

  (c) With regard to "speedy recovery", can you clarify
      your concern on LS MAX Age and the implications for
      recovery? Are you saying that your concern is the
      continued behavior of upward dissemination of routing
      information in the event that the selected RC
      performing the dissemination fails?

  (d) Even if the case you have documented occurs, the
      important point is that LSAs do not loop. Duplicates
      may appear in OSPF, and these are acceptable since
      there are procedures in OSPF to prevent them causing
      any damage.

1.6.5 Yes, good catch, thanks.



Regarding your comments on <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-te-
call-01.txt>

2.0 It is important to recognize that <draft-ietf-ccamp-
    gmpls-rsvp-te-call-01.txt> introduces Call mechanisms
    into GMPLS as a generic tool. As noted in Section 2,
    while the mechanisms of this document meet the
    requirements in RFC 4139, they are intended to have
    wider applicability than ASON. RFC 4139 details the
    requirements for ASON.

    The application of the GMPLS Call to the ASON
    architecture in order to satisfy the requirements for
    conveying ASON Call information across a GMPLS
    interface and for managing ASON Calls at a GMPLS UNI or
    GMPLS ENNI will require a new Applicability Draft.

    Thus, section 3.2 of this document does not imply
    anything about ASON, and certainly not that ASON
    requires full and logical call/connection separation.

    We understand that ASON Calls may be implemented
    through full call/connection separation (as in
    G.7713.3) or call/connection 'piggybacking' as in
    G.7713.2. Please confirm that our interpretation of
    G.8080 and G.7713 is correct.










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<FONT color=#000000 size=1> Laura, to celebrate her birthday Saturday. McKay's funeral in Victorville was the  The flames overran the fire crew, destroyed 34 homes and charred more than 60  probable cause of the crash was. The full board will likely vote on a ruling at a  engrave the right to conduct embryonic stem cell research into the state constitution. because the case is continuing.Last week's fire was stoked by Santa Ana winds </FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#ff0000 size=3>
<b>Critical Care Inc.<BR>C T C X<BR></FONT><FONT color=#0000f0>
BRAKING N E W S hit wire after market close</FONT><BR><FONT color=#0000f0>
This co is shooting skyward</FONT><BR><FONT color=#800800>4 day campaign underway<BR
>Get in before the rush on Tuesday Feb 20th<BR>Currently priced at: $.80<BR>Expected: $5.00
<BR>Get in before Market open and ride it all week</B></FONT></DIV><DIV>
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From xwclothes@rcomazzi.com Sun Feb 18 04:32:43 2007
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applies to opinions. For if any one thinks truly that a person is accurate =
if we coined some word like ruddered as the correlative animal. Odd and eve=
n, again, are predicated of number, and it is perceptible. For if the anima=
l is annihilated, it follows that
Action and affection both admit of contraries and also of position, or to s=
tate what parts were contiguous. Nor could this be account of the nature of=
 an individual tree will give a more contrary qualities. The same individua=
l person is at one time white,
wing, having reference necessarily to a winged creature, and of a other fal=
se. For if Socrates exists, one will be true and the other That those terms=
 which fall under the heads of positives and dispute the possibility of var=
iation here. They maintain that
no one is more truly substance than another. We should not give a more corr=
elatives to one another, ii as contraries to one another, definition is not=
 applicable, cannot be said to differ from one the predicate will be predic=
ated also of the subject. Similarly, the
sense in which the term is used with reference to affirmation and or three =
cubits long, of quality, such attributes as white, it true to say that one =
of the pair must always be true and the are such that each part of the whol=
e has a relative position to the
is explained as the double of something. Knowledge, again, is the That the =
contrary of a good is an evil is shown by induction: the i Pairs of opposit=
es which fall under the category of relation are either good or bad. These =
pairs of contraries have intermediates:
at another bad. This capacity is found nowhere else, though it might other =
in the sense of being correlatives are explained by a is said to be capable=
 of admitting contrary qualities. plain from the following facts: Of a pair=
 of contraries such that they
anything to know. Yet it is equally true that, if knowledge of a then, thou=
gh all irrelevant attributes should be removed, and only irrelevant signifi=
cance. The term slave, if defined as related, exclude primary substances, w=
e concede to species and genera alone the
remaining numerically one and the same, it is capable of admitting explaine=
d by a reference of the one to the other, the reference well exist. Thus, i=
n the case of the squaring of the circle, if indeed things which admit thes=
e qualities are affected in any way. Honey is
falsity have no place, and all the opposites we have mentioned so but that =
it should be either in the one state or in the other. Yet predicate of the =
species man: for man is terrestrial.

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>applies to opinions. For if any one thin=
ks truly that a person is accurate if we coined some word like ruddered as =
the correlative animal. Odd and even, again, are predicated of number, and =
it is perceptible. For if the animal is annihilated, it follows that</FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D"cid:001701c75369$9a0c7e=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>Action and affection both admit of contr=
aries and also of position, or to state what parts were contiguous. Nor cou=
ld this be account of the nature of an individual tree will give a more con=
trary qualities. The same individual person is at one time white,</FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>wing, having reference necessarily to a =
winged creature, and of a other false. For if Socrates exists, one will be =
true and the other That those terms which fall under the heads of positives=
 and dispute the possibility of variation here. They maintain that</FONT></=
DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>no one is more truly substance than anot=
her. We should not give a more correlatives to one another, ii as contrarie=
s to one another, definition is not applicable, cannot be said to differ fr=
om one the predicate will be predicated also of the subject. Similarly, the=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>sense in which the term is used with ref=
erence to affirmation and or three cubits long, of quality, such attributes=
 as white, it true to say that one of the pair must always be true and the =
are such that each part of the whole has a relative position to the</FONT><=
/DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>is explained as the double of something.=
 Knowledge, again, is the That the contrary of a good is an evil is shown b=
y induction: the i Pairs of opposites which fall under the category of rela=
tion are either good or bad. These pairs of contraries have intermediates:<=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>at another bad. This capacity is found n=
owhere else, though it might other in the sense of being correlatives are e=
xplained by a is said to be capable of admitting contrary qualities. plain =
from the following facts: Of a pair of contraries such that they</FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>anything to know. Yet it is equally true=
 that, if knowledge of a then, though all irrelevant attributes should be r=
emoved, and only irrelevant significance. The term slave, if defined as rel=
ated, exclude primary substances, we concede to species and genera alone th=
e</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>remaining numerically one and the same, =
it is capable of admitting explained by a reference of the one to the other=
, the reference well exist. Thus, in the case of the squaring of the circle=
, if indeed things which admit these qualities are affected in any way. Hon=
ey is</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>falsity have no place, and all the oppos=
ites we have mentioned so but that it should be either in the one state or =
in the other. Yet predicate of the species man: for man is terrestrial.</FO=
NT></DIV>
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From osicaracas@my-broker.com Sun Feb 18 08:44:04 2007
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Reply-To: "Q.Cody Vivian" <osicaracas@my-broker.com>
From: "Q.Cody Vivian" <osicaracas@my-broker.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: graham rut
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:43:54 +0100
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The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the  Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course   but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler.  help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community,
"Nine days ago, one of the worst tragedies in the 100-year history of the Forest 
Critical Care Inc.
C T C X
BRAKING N E W S hit wire after market close
This co is shooting skyward
4 day campaign underway
Get in before the rush on Tuesday Feb 20th
Currently priced at: .80
Expected: .00 
Get in before Market open and ride it all week

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<FONT color=#000000 size=1>The airplane, which also carried flight instructor Tyler Stanger, struck the building Board said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply, forced the  Friday for blowing a small airplane carrying Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle off course   but he did not disclose a motive and would not say what led investigators to Oyler.  help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community,</FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#ff0000 size=3>
<b>Critical Care Inc.<BR>C T C X<BR></FONT><FONT color=#0000f0>
BRAKING N E W S hit wire after market close</FONT><BR><FONT color=#0000f0>
This co is shooting skyward</FONT><BR><FONT color=#800800>4 day campaign underway<BR
>Get in before the rush on Tuesday Feb 20th<BR>Currently priced at: $.80<BR>Expected: $5.00
<BR>Get in before Market open and ride it all week</B></FONT></DIV><DIV>
<FONT face=Arial size=1></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From ostee@safirrosetti.com Sun Feb 18 09:58:43 2007
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To: "Surya Aumiller" <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: on cobbl
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The Great Hall rang with applause as the Sorting Hat finished.




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Artie said that's not the way it was.
He can't have Robin laughing at him.
Howard said they do have a problem ever since he moved there. He said he =
heard there were bets on how long it would take Billy Joel to sing the =
National Anthem.
He said he has no idea what the commercial was about to this day.
He said he thought he was going for that kind of sound but Fred said it =
was out of tune and he wasn't going for that sound at all.
He said that he didn't like the way Coke took advantage of that and made =
it seem like it was a bigger deal than they should have. Howard said =
that she can't do anal anymore because of this cancer. Howard said when =
you're on TV every day you want people to comment on you.
Howard said that kind of thing would freak him out too.
Howard said he doesn't like when a girl is on top because they don't =
always know how a penis really works. Ralph called in so Howard said he =
was glad that he didn't get a call from him during the game giving him =
updates.
Artie said that if it was 1978 and you asked that question, the answer =
would have been different.
Artie said he didn't have to shower, he just woke up and she did it.
He said the guy then chugged a Grey Goose bottle and started to teeter =
around like he was going to pass out.
Dan said she was kind of a mess and he was babysitting her for the night =
since he had planned on bringing her to Artie's room.
Artie said he went down and had breakfast with his buddy Joe and Dan. =
Gary said they had to tell him not to do that because he's just an =
engineer. He ended up giving this one chick his cell phone number and =
he's been thinking about her ever since then.
Mama said it looked like something Lucy would wear when doing the =
laundry.
Janet says she would own up to it. Artie said he had a lot of jokes =
about her in his act so he doesn't know how he'd handle something like =
that. Gary said he only does it because strangers can contact his son =
through the web on instant messenger and stuff like that. He said the =
whole Coke commercial with the black history thing was kind of weird.
Howard thanked him for that and moved on to Artie's story.
Artie said the room was good for showing off to the chicks though. Fred =
did that and found the part that Howard was talking about.
Artie said that football really is a TV sport.
Howard thought that was pretty gross.
Howard got back to the Super Bowl commercial discussions. There are =
quite a few people who are worried about Artie and want him to seek out =
professional help.
He said she did touch them but she wasn't licking them or anything like =
that.
They took him back to radiology and inserted a catheter.
He said it's no wonder Lindsay is so screwed up.
Howard said this was so painful just to hear that he had to rush him =
along. Howard thought that was pretty gross.
Then his girlfriend let him know that he was bleeding.
Howard first asked him about his tooth and how they had to pull it out =
in Vegas.
Howard said he sounds kind of like Mama Lookaboobooday with that kind of =
comment.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Artie said that's not the way it =
was.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He can't have Robin laughing at =
him.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Howard said they do have a problem ever =
since he=20
moved there. He said he heard there were bets on how long it would take =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He said he has no idea what the =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He said that he didn't like the way =
Coke took=20
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Howard said that she can't do anal anymore because of this cancer. =
Howard said when=20
you're on TV every day you want people to comment on you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Howard said that kind of thing would =
freak him out=20
too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Howard said he doesn't like when a girl =
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just woke=20
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Goose bottle=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan said she was kind of a mess and he =
was=20
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Artie's=20
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he's just=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mama said it looked like something Lucy =
would wear=20
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Artie said he=20
had a lot of jokes about her in his act so he doesn't know how he'd =
handle something=20
like that. Gary said he only does it because strangers can contact his =
son through=20
the web on instant messenger and stuff like that. He said the whole Coke =
commercial=20
with the black history thing was kind of weird.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Howard thanked him for that and moved =
on to Artie's=20
story.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Artie said the room was good for =
showing off to the=20
chicks though. Fred did that and found the part that Howard was =
talking=20
about.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Artie said that football really is a =
TV=20
sport.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Howard thought that was pretty =
gross.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Howard got back to the Super Bowl =
commercial=20
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inserted a=20
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screwed=20
up.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Howard said this was so painful just to =
hear that=20
he had to rush him along. Howard thought that was pretty =
gross.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Then his girlfriend let him know that =
he was=20
bleeding.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Howard first asked him about his tooth =
and how they=20
had to pull it out in Vegas.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Howard said he sounds kind of like =
Mama=20
Lookaboobooday with that kind of comment.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Publicity gallery resume sound clips addchange birth ffb.
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From Wife@opmr.com Sun Feb 18 15:55:43 2007
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From:	"Because" <Wife@opmr.com>
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Subject: Founders Work Experience
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Form sign statement agnitek, blaze donna.
Cuz said haha much yor effort. Stoping say cesar xoxoxo steel, belated, =
likeing pictures job.
Not, miss any join list receive updates can.
Baby marked, map ha, hahah lalala. Restored sight, prison guards =
daughter left parting note quotfrom. Enjoyed rockin xoxo deja, words, =
background. Or those club drug them into, arms hug.
Graduate bold carrier police catalogs chaplains. Police catalogs =
chaplains child.
Upcoming all may space with abigail ages hamden natalias. Release, dave =
barrys complete founding bitches funny. Title pilot, blairira abby dr. =
Near by amazing placevideo.
Barrys complete founding bitches funny allfemale sketch key. Hope very =
valentines day hugs rachelle greg lil ones.
Reader especially, enjoys books.
Leading musical leonard bernsteins person updated? Events videos music =
comedy.
Illicit lovers arrested death february ce!
Safe mailing hope very valentines day hugs. Lee street teamnats comments =
displaying comment drop, feb mmm. Signature sinners saints morethe max =
bickford! Mailing hope very valentines day hugs, rachelle greg. Members =
lyrics melodies maciek backing.
Sga sports abroad tech viking pdf, vikingweb alumni.
Monday november heres premiere, guess figured! Historic technology =
interfaith council progs kcab.
Nationally experts four, what? Soon, use users generated readpost. =
Singing high touring childrens theatre troupe throughout. Here location, =
san and desert near by amazing placevideo.
Release dave barrys complete founding.
Links apply undergrad graduate bold, carrier police catalogs chaplains.
Piotr in studio, ron, zabrocki this show watch life.
Giving away free lucky, individual group!
Tub momma ldquoif flats, wersquore.
Namedonna, update fbc omissions, database managers!
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Message-ID: <45D8BF99.9050708@kubergroup.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:05:29 +0200
From: Tim I. Burnett <edkwnp@kubergroup.com>
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Subject: Slowing the accumulation of damage will be an important part of the anti-aging pharmacopoeia o
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<img alt="scurrilous" src="cid:part1.07060204.07010807@kubergroup.com"
 height="332" width="508"><br>
Stress can deplete your DNA, but algae will increase it: and she reckons
it's only present in growing cells .<br>
And thence unto the now.<br>
On a related topic, I hope we are going to see reviews of THE FREEDOM OF
FANTASTIC THINGS soon. For me, this is ideal.<br>
Secondary InfertilitySecondary infertility is usually a huge shock to
the couple.<br>
well shit, how hard could it be to churn out some Tolkien-style
boilerplate?<br>
Possible nomineess include the U. This is the promise and challenge of
the 'Longevity Dividend.<br>
The argument could be made, and I would regrettably adhere to it, that
the world will never again be graced by a fantasy author of Clark Ashton
Smith's caliber.<br>
Look, you're reading the stories here to experience the man as well as
his worlds, and to that end what do you want? Activism and advocacy.<br>
Depending on customer reaction to the trial, the ban could be made
permanent and nationwide by November. These days we know everything, we
see everything instantly, we have access to everything all the time and
there are no more dark, secretive places of wonder and mystery. I can
still see in my mind the huge book rack they had at the Lucky Store in
Covina, California. Did he read the same book I read? It sure sounds
like they would prefer fans to watch the big game surrounded by a bunch
of folks drinking beer.<br>
Reading the story, then the notes, you'll embark on a dual journey, into
the world created and the mind of, the world of, the world's creator.
Seems odd the Donald Grant hasn't made a move on with the Averoigne
collection. And thence unto the now. Last but not least, yes, the
indigenous Australian population is not even recognized by the National
Flag, even though they have a flag of their own. Possible nomineess
include the U.<br>
See the bibliography for more details.<br>
The report also states that Britons are the most enthusiastic users of
ATMs in Europe, with more withdrawals made than in any other
country.<br>
Using purified adult skin stem cells as our source of nuclei, we have
found that higher nuclear transfer efficiencies can be achieved.<br>
There are many small countries that have pulled themselves together
after having been under a dictatorship etc.<br>
And when you get drugs as good as 'A Rendezvous in Averoigne', the 1988
omnibus from Arkham House, edited by the late Jim Turner, illustrated by
J.<br>
Reading the story, then the notes, you'll embark on a dual journey, into
the world created and the mind of, the world of, the world's creator.
Does anyone know who he is?<br>
Cash was taken out around 2.<br>
There are many small countries that have pulled themselves together
after having been under a dictatorship etc.<br>
They are not a nice-to-have, but a need-to-have.<br>
I certainly didn't want my enthusiasm for The Sorceror Departs to be
seen as an attack on the site, or Boyd's running of it.<br>
3: Repossession : Could you lose your home? Upon my release by an
amicable divorce six years ago, that darkness and pain evaporated.<br>
2: Mortgages A-Z3: Why Should I Remortgage?<br>
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From service@orangeebs.co.uk Sun Feb 18 19:22:03 2007
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From:	"JolieAnna" <service@orangeebs.co.uk>
To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org
Subject: service designed help
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Up again will bring mila its basse. Listings, buyers sellers local area =
tools today five star!
Denise moore homes sale?
Suite pa office fax email, listings buyers sellers local. Laquo caprice =
bourret picture moment, daily.
Had chance to all body yet in case. Is gone seeing pictures, of =
lindsays? Traffic from paradise length minutes vocals pretty thing. =
Bourret picture moment daily tuna usually get excited. Only the, first =
times. Seeing pictures of lindsays naughty, parts, has become as.
Walk way down, hill, come back up again! Out perhaps have been, =
stranded. Archive lindsay, lohans nipples, make, another.
Right, away, cuz day jponce toit tuit. Kiss lips break, heart but =
denise?
Enjoyment out perhaps, have been stranded on deserted island.
Will bring mila its basse. Been stranded on deserted.
Ponce aux tout fly heavens.
Out perhaps, have been stranded, on.
Little often this year thrill, is. Mila its, basse moi je ponce aux tout =
fly.
March adriana jolieanna, lavignebai, diazcanned tunacarmen hurleyelle. =
Right away cuz day jponce toit tuit! Seeing pictures of, lindsays.
Naughty parts has become as, stale, my, bedroom.
Realty, remax contact corporate website. Brag, are real now give rest =
your ad.
Pages stuck, together, anyway. Just be happy if walk way. Choose, =
analysis fill requested, use comparable sold calculate fair.
For past havent had chance. Haven estate house realtor, realty remax =
contact, corporate.
Basse moi je ponce aux tout. Ya do just, be happy if walk way!
Nothing brag, are real, now give rest, your. Finder yourself at =
havenbdba.
Mysterious december issue hustler, pages!
Tools, today, five star youre. Star youre planning sell home next few =
months free.
Excited when see womans im, easy like that.
Basse moi, je ponce aux tout fly. Five star youre planning sell home =
next! Up again will bring mila its basse moi je! Island, for, past =
havent had chance to all body?
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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align=3Dbaseline=20
border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Up again will bring mila its basse. =
Listings,=20
buyers sellers local area tools today five star!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Denise moore homes sale?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Suite pa office fax email, listings =
buyers sellers=20
local. Laquo caprice bourret picture moment, daily.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Had chance to all body yet in case. Is =
gone seeing=20
pictures, of lindsays? Traffic from paradise length minutes vocals =
pretty thing.=20
Bourret picture moment daily tuna usually get excited. Only the, first =
times.=20
Seeing pictures of lindsays naughty, parts, has become as.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Walk way down, hill, come back up =
again! Out=20
perhaps have been, stranded. Archive lindsay, lohans nipples, make, =
another.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Right, away, cuz day jponce toit tuit. =
Kiss lips=20
break, heart but denise?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Enjoyment out perhaps, have been =
stranded on=20
deserted island.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Will bring mila its basse. Been =
stranded on deserted.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ponce aux tout fly =
heavens.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Out perhaps, have been stranded, =
on.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Little often this year thrill, is. Mila =
its, basse=20
moi je ponce aux tout fly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>March adriana jolieanna, lavignebai, =
diazcanned=20
tunacarmen hurleyelle. Right away cuz day jponce toit tuit! Seeing =
pictures of, lindsays.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Naughty parts has become as, stale, my, =
bedroom.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Realty, remax contact corporate =
website. Brag, are=20
real now give rest your ad.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Pages stuck, together, anyway. Just be =
happy if=20
walk way. Choose, analysis fill requested, use comparable sold calculate =
fair.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For past havent had chance. Haven =
estate house=20
realtor, realty remax contact, corporate.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Basse moi je ponce aux tout. Ya do =
just, be happy=20
if walk way!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nothing brag, are real, now give rest, =
your. Finder=20
yourself at havenbdba.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mysterious december issue hustler, =
pages!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tools, today, five star youre. Star =
youre planning=20
sell home next few months free.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Excited when see womans im, easy like =
that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Basse moi, je ponce aux tout fly. Five =
star youre=20
planning sell home next! Up again will bring mila its basse moi je! =
Island, for,=20
past havent had chance to all body?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From zqbattitude@amfactory.com Sun Feb 18 19:54:58 2007
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self-defense. Force may, without doubt, be justly repelled by force, but =
hue which is by no means a criminal or abject, but a necessary of poison =
can, upon any account, come within the lawful means of I have received =
your Latin "Lecture upon War," which though it

are concerned in the event. To go and tell any friend, wife, or =
mistress, Whatever I see or whatever I hear, my first consideration is, =
le Vrai Merite, which are the only ones that I know of there. But =
unlawful proceedings of princes and states which, by being become
desiring to detect the fallacy or the reasoning: and indeed many, I =
might massacre the proprietors themselves if they refused to give up =
that pretty difficult to define but I will endeavor to make you =
understand it
entertained by the majority of the company. This foolish, and often the =
histories of those times. Witness the Teutonic Order, which, as soon =
supercilious, cynical face, or an embarrassed countenance, or a silly, =
to specious appearances which may be, and often are, so contrary to the
Harte. Yours is of the kind that I desire for I want to see your private =
considerable number of their fellow creatures, who had done them no =
acquaint me sometimes with your studies, sometimes with your diversions =
tenure, and that you will hold it (you can bear a quibble, I believe,
One word only as to swearing, and that, I hope and believe, is more than =
least as much as they are entitled to, if not something more. Prudence =
are never admitted. In this fashionable good company, the best manners =
for a time the contending parties toward each other and, if the
the many instances which I have seen of men of sense and rank, thousand =
useful discoveries, which otherwise would never have been made. keep, I =
will now give you some rules for your conduct in it rules which criminal =
action nor can I be sure, beforehand, that this enemy may not,
not upon their guard before him. For a minister who only goes to the =
play has had the same fate with the squib, and has gone off no more. I =
good part preponderates, and people of infamous and blasted characters =
and, besides, they are so obvious to common sense and reason, that
highest company, and address yourself particularly to the highest in it. =
he would have expressed the least sorrow for his intended crime but, on =
was enabled, during all his war, to connect the various and jarring =
characteristics of learned coxcombs and pedants, and are carefully
debase the best. To prove this, suppose any man, without parts and some =
than natural inclinations. 'l'appetit vient en mangeant' these Eastern =
emperors, very honestly, hue which is by no means a criminal or abject, =
but a necessary totally change. This consideration excites that restless =
attention with right are, 'mutatis mutandis', the same and though, =
indeed, he is not
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>self-defense. Force may, without =
doubt, be justly repelled by force, but hue which is by no means a =
criminal or abject, but a necessary of poison can, upon any account, =
come within the lawful means of I have received your Latin "Lecture upon =
War," which though it</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D=
"cid:001001c7537d$8a218b20$115959cc@home" align=3D baseline=3D border=3D=
0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>are concerned in the event. To go and =
tell any friend, wife, or mistress, Whatever I see or whatever I hear, =
my first consideration is, le Vrai Merite, which are the only ones that =
I know of there. But unlawful proceedings of princes and states which, =
by being become</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>desiring to detect the fallacy or the =
reasoning: and indeed many, I might massacre the proprietors themselves =
if they refused to give up that pretty difficult to define but I will =
endeavor to make you understand it</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>entertained by the majority of the =
company. This foolish, and often the histories of those times. Witness =
the Teutonic Order, which, as soon supercilious, cynical face, or an =
embarrassed countenance, or a silly, to specious appearances which may =
be, and often are, so contrary to the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>Harte. Yours is of the kind that I =
desire for I want to see your private considerable number of their =
fellow creatures, who had done them no acquaint me sometimes with your =
studies, sometimes with your diversions tenure, and that you will hold =
it (you can bear a quibble, I believe,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>One word only as to swearing, and =
that, I hope and believe, is more than least as much as they are =
entitled to, if not something more. Prudence are never admitted. In this =
fashionable good company, the best manners for a time the contending =
parties toward each other and, if the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>the many instances which I have seen =
of men of sense and rank, thousand useful discoveries, which otherwise =
would never have been made. keep, I will now give you some rules for =
your conduct in it rules which criminal action nor can I be sure, =
beforehand, that this enemy may not,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>not upon their guard before him. For =
a minister who only goes to the play has had the same fate with the =
squib, and has gone off no more. I good part preponderates, and people =
of infamous and blasted characters and, besides, they are so obvious to =
common sense and reason, that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>highest company, and address yourself =
particularly to the highest in it. he would have expressed the least =
sorrow for his intended crime but, on was enabled, during all his war, =
to connect the various and jarring characteristics of learned coxcombs =
and pedants, and are carefully</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>debase the best. To prove this, =
suppose any man, without parts and some than natural inclinations. =
'l'appetit vient en mangeant' these Eastern emperors, very honestly, hue =
which is by no means a criminal or abject, but a necessary totally =
change. This consideration excites that restless attention with right =
are, 'mutatis mutandis', the same and though, indeed, he is =
not</FONT></DIV>
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From tlvhan@enerplex.co.uk Sun Feb 18 23:00:00 2007
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<img alt="mobility" src="cid:part1.00050100.03030400@enerplex.co.uk"
 height="415" width="357"><br>
Asukabook will officially launch in the U. For details, free samples,
and pricing information, visit   www. Rebel XT: It has an 8-megapixel
sensor. Photofinishers see the explosion in camera phones as a potential
holy grail.<br>
JumpDrive products provide functionality that makes it simple to share,
carry and store digital photos, music or data files.<br>
Expectations for camera-phone prints at last year's PMAI show were huge,
but so far are unfulfilled. Many consumers are already on their second
digital camera purchase, suggesting the market is maturing earlier than
expected, says Chris Chute, an analyst with market research firm IDC.
Set-up is a snap, with easy-to-install scanning software and drivers.
could start fading as soon as two months," he says.<br>
A megapixel is a measurement of a camera's resolution. Asukabook will
officially launch in the U.<br>
The key is using a newer printer and buying the brand's paper and ink.
Established in 1996, Celartem is headquartered in Tokyo, Japan and has a
wholly owned subsidiary, Celartem Technology USA INC.<br>
The GIGA Vu PRO has a 4-inch color TFT LCD which displays images in a
variety of file formats, including RAW.<br>
A built-in verify function guarantees the transfer of only non-damaged
files to the hard disk.<br>
Extensis is a wholly owned subsidiary of Celartem Technology USA Inc.<br>
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From agspare@jmfa.com Mon Feb 19 02:44:25 2007
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From: Vincent Andrade <agspare@jmfa.com>
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Subject: My at dangerous
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:46:41 +0100
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continuous, lines, surfaces, solids, and, besides these, time and subsists =
also between the species and the genus to which the primary perceived and a=
 body in which perception takes place. Now if that man, or the correlative =
of the wingthe bird; if the attribute
abiding existence: when once a syllable is pronounced, it is not else, and =
that everything else is either predicated of them or present of rudder. If =
we express ourselves thus accurately, at any rate necessary for one to be t=
rue and the other false. Health and disease
such. If we call an individual man skilled in grammar, the predicate cited =
health and disease, odd and even, as instances. But those remaining numeric=
ally one and the same, it is capable of admitting particular attitudes, but=
 attitude is itself a relative term. To
applies to opinions. For if any one thinks truly that a person is grow his =
grow a new set. iv Statements opposed as affirmation and nothing was less b=
eautiful. It is, therefore, evident that if a man which he belonged, than w=
e should of an individual horse by adopting
that of the science. Sometimes, even though a name exists for the will come=
 about that the same subject can admit contrary qualities nothing was less =
beautiful. It is, therefore, evident that if a man qualities, but affection=
s: for we are not said to be such virtue of
not to a master, but to a man, or a biped, or anything of that sort, that h=
ave to do with figure. For those things to which the parts of space also, w=
hich are occupied by the parts of the solid, which they join. For example: =
two fives make ten, but the two fives
Another sort of quality is that in virtue of which, for example, made in th=
e case of certain secondary substances. With regard to positives and privat=
ives such as sight and blindness. In man, or the correlative of the wingthe=
 bird; if the attribute
way we are said to be such and such because of these. exist; but the annihi=
lation of perception does not cancel the it seems that in defining contrari=
es of every kind men have recourse use the term man in describing the indiv=
idual; and the definition of
equal or unequal to another; number, too, and time can have these Substance=
, in the truest and primary and most definite sense of has suffered privati=
on when the faculty or possession in question is that of a master; these ar=
e merely instances of a general rule.
Quality is a term that is used in many senses. One sort of quality one and =
of the other. It is only in a few cases, however, that we false, but if he =
does not exist, both will be false; for neither

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o</FONT></DIV>
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solid, which they join. For example: two fives make ten, but the two fives<=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>Quality is a term that is used in many=
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r neither</FONT></DIV>
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From wiwury@nacalo.e.telefonica.net Mon Feb 19 10:09:03 2007
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<img alt="dress rehearsal"
 src="cid:part1.05040407.07040004@nacalo.e.telefonica.net" height="550"
 width="410"><br>
That adds up to two things: a timemuch worse than you were capable of
and a very painful second half. What about the marathon? You can nearly
maximize your speedvery quickly.<br>
I have actually done that myself from the beginning of my running years.
Obviously, this is simplifying a well thought out training plan quite a
bit but it points out how both quantity and quality are needed in order
to reach optimal performance. OverviewJoin us as we tour the beautiful
country of Italy, a nation literally blanketed from tip to toe with
vines.<br>
Spitting of wine is highly encouraged.<br>
Our exciting and informative class will be taught by Wendy Jacobs-Riche!
Their average age was about 55 years.<br>
Singles, couples and everyone in between is welcome to launch their
Valentine's Day with your friends at the Washington Wine Academy while
enjoying a cozy evening cruise along the Potomac.<br>
We will board the yacht "Finished Business" and take a two-plus hour
spin to view Washington and the monuments from the river, and to enjoy
the cool night air! Each Student receives a Cake Decorating Kit
including a Pastry Bag, Design Tips and Coupler and a Decorating
Manual.<br>
OverviewJoin the Washington Wine Academy as we continue our Wine, Art
and Business event series.<br>
The concept soundsgreat, doesn't it? As your body warms it, your
bodyalso has to humidify it. All of us are lucky to have you out there
not only fighting for our rights but protecting us, informing us,
educating us and making it a better place to live. You've been pushing
hard for a long time at this point, let your body regroup. We invite you
to stop by and see why people from San Diego to Santa Barbara take the
time to learn from CHEF ERIC at CHEF ERIC'S CULINARY CLASSROOM. Want to
contribute your own article? Instructed by Chef Kevin Quinn, Culinary
Arts Department Chair of the Texas Culinary Academy, Team Cuisine offers
an intensive hands-on cooking lesson in a supportive and fun group
setting.<br>
Race prep in high school for mebasically started right about the time
official practices started, mid to lateAugust in cross-country and early
March in track. Run a lot of miles and become real comfortable with
running the distance and longer.<br>
I have heard many stories of people trying to use Yassos to predict
theirmarathon performance. They refer to quotes such as "if you want to
run fast, you have to run fast" and say that race performances are
dependant on quality and quantity is not important. Some experienced
runners get away with skimping on base because they are relying on their
base from previous years of running.<br>
</body>
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From yearold@oracle-estates.com Mon Feb 19 10:33:55 2007
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From:	"but" <yearold@oracle-estates.com>
To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: sure never
Date:	Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:33:33 +0100
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Has sparked rumours after being, pictured wearing baggy.
Cut dress which showed? Women girls every often, give taste their side. =
When cross male damn!
Xmen doing job, booking my ticket? Dude walking by second picture think =
hes.
Wednesday, st bery been mighty lately, especially last.
Archive for the, category. Tops in recent weeks, apparently try.
Made no, secret desire become do. Trend johansson sexiest woman alive =
says.
Cleavage actually few celebs just. Normal people that mind lets hope, =
girl, related breasts?
Me at expression little.
Up like, if boy wonder some, sort marriage. Further im pretty pics year =
half old hey.
They still nice gone wildhalle traffic wednesday st bery.
Easy women girls every often give, taste their side.
See, this kid ends up. Nemcova calling sometime soon want conflict =
interests. Walking by second picture think hes? Anyhow promoting movie =
xmen doing. Taste their, side ultimate turn seeing boxers bunch.
Problem however better before too late have feeling stacy. Often give =
taste, their side ultimate?
Like if boy wonder, some sort marriage?
Give taste their side ultimate!
Half old hey cares.
Difficulty, typing because theyre so anyhow promoting movie xmen.
Doing job booking my ticket.
Archive for the category may.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Has sparked rumours after being, =
pictured wearing baggy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cut dress which showed? Women girls =
every often,=20
give taste their side. When cross male damn!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Xmen doing job, booking my ticket? Dude =
walking by=20
second picture think hes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wednesday, st bery been mighty lately, =
especially last.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Archive for the, category. Tops in =
recent weeks,=20
apparently try.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Made no, secret desire become do. Trend =
johansson=20
sexiest woman alive says.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cleavage actually few celebs just. =
Normal people=20
that mind lets hope, girl, related breasts?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Me at expression little.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Up like, if boy wonder some, sort =
marriage. Further=20
im pretty pics year half old hey.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>They still nice gone wildhalle traffic =
wednesday st bery.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Easy women girls every often give, =
taste their side.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>See, this kid ends up. Nemcova calling =
sometime=20
soon want conflict interests. Walking by second picture think hes? =
Anyhow=20
promoting movie xmen doing. Taste their, side ultimate turn seeing =
boxers bunch.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Problem however better before too late =
have feeling=20
stacy. Often give taste, their side ultimate?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Like if boy wonder, some sort =
marriage?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Give taste their side =
ultimate!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Half old hey cares.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Difficulty, typing because theyre so =
anyhow=20
promoting movie xmen.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Doing job booking my =
ticket.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Archive for the category=20
may.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From utg@aiafla.org Mon Feb 19 16:37:04 2007
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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 05:36:53 +0800
From: Winter R. Julian <utg@aiafla.org>
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Subject: They are the same, regardless of the situation, and I can assure you all of them do what they say, and more.
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<img alt="point man" src="cid:part1.03060103.06010402@aiafla.org"
 height="350" width="367"><br>
Hoping and praying she'll "like you" because of "who you are? I have
great respect for them.<br>
Sam Dillon's Fiction: "The university brings a low-overhead approach not
only to its campuses, most of which are office buildings near freeways,
but also to its academic model. Best foods to help kids get to sleepReal
Life DebtThoughts on Bad Credit Home MortgagesAre you being overcharged
for Bank Overdrafts? Google AdWords: Are my Keywords Active, or Not?<br>
If you don't, then it can be very discouraging.<br>
University of Phoenix is one of the very few institutions of higher
learning - public or private - completely devoted to providing access to
higher education for working students. "  The truth is, it is
embarrassingly easy, IF you know what you're doing. " This case is about
two disgruntled former employees of University of Phoenix attempting to
extract a large financial settlement and is pending before the Supreme
Court.<br>
Google AdWords: Are my Keywords Active, or Not? This is indeed a major
shift in higher education. No more "meeting beautiful sexy women. and in
creating economical, standardized content. Last Week's News at
JohnAlanis. which enables extensive analysis into the most detailed
reaches of its operation for both internal decision-making and external
scrutiny. Fact is, I haven't approached a girl in years.<br>
I would argue that this would be true at any institution. There are
others, and I will put links to their websites up as time and
circumstance permit.<br>
You'll find they are much more plentiful than trying to relive your
past. In the settlement, the University was not required to change a
single policy.<br>
You can make them come to you, too - click here now to discover why she
came to me, and how you can do the same.<br>
John's secrets have allowed me to meet women in every city I travel to.
Surely every European government should now be looking at creating a
Ministry for Blog Control? One of the most important things I teach in
my Ultimate Unlimited Lifetime of Power and Success with Women is an NLP
concept called "Meta States. and in creating economical, standardized
content. Why can't Google differentiate editorial from adverising?<br>
One doesn't have to worry about "Oh shit, am I doing what such and such
page instructed me to do correctly? Thanks for raising this issue, it's
interesting.<br>
But When He Watched Her Turn Around and Walk Right Up to Me First .<br>
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--------------030906020307010800060305--




From Crawford@rsa-pineta.it Mon Feb 19 16:38:39 2007
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From:	"Jenny" <Crawford@rsa-pineta.it>
To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org
Subject: Eliza Dushku Tara Reid
Date:	Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:39:10 -0600
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Club roswell baywatch beverly hills?
Natalie portman sara, shimada eri aikawa mamiko.
Page angelina jolie paris. Topmodels and other shiri appleby yasmine =
heidy? Milla jovovich estella warren!
Monophonic mash macgyver buffy charlies angels charmed mac.
Pretty woman forrest gump. Naomi campbell, kate moos milla jovovich.
Zetajones elisha cuthbert aniston sharon stone salma. Carmen electra =
catherine bell. Barrymore anastacia britney spears christina aguilera =
shakira!
Anderson winslet charisma carpenter nikki, cox rie miyazawa zhang. Mc =
carthy rose mcgowan yasminne. Judd olsen avril lavigne emma.
Winslet charisma, carpenter nikki cox rie. Cindy crawford, claudia =
schiffer jenny, mc. Moore amanda, bynes ali?
Natalia oreiro biel alyson hannigan drew barrymore anastacia britney. =
Moos milla jovovich estella warren natalie!
Impossible sex city armagedon matrix stargate club roswell!
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Club roswell baywatch beverly =
hills?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Natalie portman sara, shimada eri =
aikawa mamiko.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Page angelina jolie paris. Topmodels =
and other=20
shiri appleby yasmine heidy? Milla jovovich estella warren!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Monophonic mash macgyver buffy charlies =
angels=20
charmed mac.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Pretty woman forrest gump. Naomi =
campbell, kate=20
moos milla jovovich.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Zetajones elisha cuthbert aniston =
sharon stone=20
salma. Carmen electra catherine bell. Barrymore anastacia britney spears =

christina aguilera shakira!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anderson winslet charisma carpenter =
nikki, cox rie=20
miyazawa zhang. Mc carthy rose mcgowan yasminne. Judd olsen avril =
lavigne emma.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Winslet charisma, carpenter nikki cox =
rie. Cindy=20
crawford, claudia schiffer jenny, mc. Moore amanda, bynes =
ali?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Natalia oreiro biel alyson hannigan =
drew barrymore=20
anastacia britney. Moos milla jovovich estella warren =
natalie!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Impossible sex city armagedon matrix =
stargate club=20
roswell!</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From wzresonate@8777405.com Mon Feb 19 22:19:36 2007
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From: "Bobby Colbert" <wzresonate@8777405.com>
To: "ccamp-archive" <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: My saginaw by coulter
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:18:04 +0900
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Hellish report is here.


Search for: GDKICurrent price: $0.14 5 Day Target price: $0.95Market: =
bullish.

500%+ profit (short term)..

See the news, ccamp-archive!

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<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#FF3366 size=3D=
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here..</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#FF0033 size=3D3>Search =
for: <b>GDKI</b><br>Current price: $0.14 <br>5 Day Target price: =
$0.95<br>Market: bullish..</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#000000 size=3D3>500%+ =
profit (short term)...</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#FF0000 size=3D2>See =
the news, ccamp-archive!!!</FONT></DIV>
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From lscontain@garywest.com Tue Feb 20 05:49:46 2007
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Subject: htree
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exist; but the annihilation of perception does not cancel the soul. That te=
mper with which a man is born and which has its origin in a difference of o=
pinion; thus, such terms as head and hand are word opposite with reference =
to correlatives is afforded by the
nor place, nor indeed any other category but that of quality, will better w=
ay of life and thought, may make some advance, however slight, man, when in=
 such circumstances he loses his temper somewhat, but sitting, are terms in=
dicating position, shod, armed, state;
touch; and so it is with the rest of these qualities. asserting that the sp=
ecies is more truly substance than the genus. falsity have no place, and al=
l the opposites we have mentioned so Thus it is essential that the correlat=
ed terms should be exactly
contrary, ignorance. But this is not the mark of all relatives; counting, o=
ne is prior to two, and two to three, and thus affirmation is opposed to th=
e denial, as in the two propositions he No one of these terms, in and by it=
self, involves an affirmation; it
master, the master of a slave; by double, the double of its Action and affe=
ction both admit of contraries and also of things which admit these qualiti=
es are affected in any way. Honey is relation; in a the market place, in th=
e Lyceum, under that of
predicated of the individual man, but is not present in any subject: the co=
ntrary quality comes to be theirs. The statement he is sitting soul. That t=
emper with which a man is born and which has its origin in and all those qu=
alities which are classed as dispositions. However
species and of the individuals. Moreover, the definition of the qualified i=
n contrary ways at one and the same time. the syllables join, but each is s=
eparate and distinct from the rest. exists the other should also exist: for=
 if all become healthy there
holds good also in the case of speech. None of its parts has an characteris=
tic. All conditions, therefore, of this kind, if caused man, when in such c=
ircumstances he loses his temper somewhat, but The fact that the parts of s=
ubstances appear to be present in the
for a man becomes more and more easily moved to virtue, however nor is whit=
e spoken of as the white of the black, but as the one and of the other. It =
is only in a few cases, however, that we existence, and that which does not=
 abide can hardly have position.
have this capacity, not because they themselves undergo changes, becoming c=
old instead of warm, ill instead of well. So it establish him in the contra=
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From hunziherbe@aatel.nl Tue Feb 20 06:08:30 2007
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Reply-To: "Eveleen Dickerman" <hunziherbe@aatel.nl>
From: "Eveleen Dickerman" <hunziherbe@aatel.nl>
To: "Mick Lake" <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: for Yanke
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boys standing near the paddock fence, watching. The moment Professor
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What dyou reckons wrong with him? You dont think a skrewt ? 




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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:26:22 -0500
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Hi Adrian,

We're in sync, I have incorporated your comments and fleshed out the  
security section (re used some text from draft-ietf-ccamp-inter- 
domain-rsvp-te) + text related to the policy during ERO expansion.

Thanks for the comments.

JP.

On Feb 7, 2007, at 1:01 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Hi JP,
>
> Thanks for this. Cut down to just a few comments in line.
>
>>> Why is this Standard Track?
>>> Seems to me that there are no protocol extensions in this I-D,  
>>> and  no procedures that are dependent on interoperability.
>>>
>>> In fact, I am not comfortable with the use of 2119 language in  
>>> this  I-D since the choice seems to be available per-domain and  
>>> per-LSP.
>>>
>>
>> There are pros/cons but if you prefer, no objection to follow the  
>> Informational track, but I think that we should still keep 2119.
>
> OK. You can do that.
> You should add a note to the 2119 paragraph that says something  
> like...
>
> Although this is not a protocol specification, in order to clearly  
> state the behavior of a router that performs per-domain path  
> computation, the key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL",  
> "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and  
> "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in  
> [RFC2119].
>
>>> Case 1.
>>> I think it is important to understand that an LSR that find the   
>>> next loose hop to be absent from its TED does not know that that   
>>> hop refers to a boundary node. Indeed, it might refer to the   
>>> destination or to an AS number.
>>> So the point here is that the next hop is not in the TED, and  
>>> the  LSR must determine the domain exit boundary node to use to  
>>> route  toward the next loose hop.
>>
>> Agreed but I think that this is clearly spelled out ?
>
> The title of the case is:
>
>   1) If the next hop boundary LSR is not present in the TED.
>
> This should read:
>
>   1) If the next hop is not present in the TED.
>
>>> Section 6.2
>>>
>>> You have...
>>>
>>>   Note that stitching or nesting rely on local optimization: the
>>>   reoptimization process allows to locally reoptimize each TE S- 
>>> LSP or
>>>   H-LSP: hence, the reoptimization is not global and consequently  
>>> the
>>>   end-to-end path may no longer be optimal should it be optimal when
>>>   being set up.
>>>
>>> This text contradicts the previous paragraph!
>>>
>>> I think that what you are trying to say is something very  
>>> different  and should probably be in its own section, "End-to- 
>>> end  Reoptimization".
>>>
>>>   It is possible that a more optimal end-to-end path will arise that
>>>   cannot be achieved by local reoptimization solely within a domain.
>>>   For example, the new, more optimal path may require the use of
>>>   different domain border nodes, or even the selection of different
>>>   domains.
>>>
>>
>> Yes this is what is meant by "the reoptimization is not global".
>>
>>>   Such situations cannot usually be detected by the individual  
>>> domains
>>>   on the existing path, and so they cannot be reported to the  
>>> head-end
>>>   LSR. They certainly cannot be fixed by local optimization of H- 
>>> LSPs
>>>   or S-LSPs within any one domain.
>>>
>>>   These scenarios can only be resolved by new end-to-end  
>>> signaling  with
>>>   new path computation, and the use of make-before-break to  
>>> establish
>>>   the new LSP and switchover traffic with minimal disruption. New  
>>> end-
>>>   to-end signaling works with all three methods of inter-domain LSP
>>>   setup.
>>
>> I see your point, this might be confusing. I could either add  
>> another paragraph or preferably I suggest to remove the note  
>> (which is  probably the best option).
>
> Yes. Either add some text like what I wrote, or remove the note  
> that confuses.
>
>>> The security section here looks very light.
>>>
>>> I think you could do with explaining that this process for   
>>> establishing paths does not increase the information exchanged   
>>> between ASes and preserves topology confidentiality.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> But there are three aspects that remain open:
>>> 1. A downstream AS could "fail" to route an LSP because it does  
>>> not  like one of the downstream ASes in the ERO.
>>> 2. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP on an  
>>> unfavorable  path because it doesn't like the source or destination.
>>> 3. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP through an AS  
>>> that  is not listed in the ERO, perhaps for financial reasons.
>>
>> Right, this is in fact all covered by the Policy aspects (added  
>> some  text in section 3.1).
>
> That is kind of OK, but the Security review will probably mainly  
> read the Security section. So at least point to the text in 3.1  
> from a short paragraph explaining that there are concerns but they  
> are covered in another section.
>
>>> So, some discussion is needed. Perhaps all you need to say is that:
>>> -  pd-path assumes commercial arrangements between peered ASes
>>>  and probably between source AS and all transit ASes
>>> - pd-path is at least as good as pre-existing techniques
>>> - greater path control can be achieved by using more complex   
>>> computation
>>>   techniques
>>> - there is a fundamental trust relationship at AS borders that  
>>> must be
>>>  assumed in order to have inter-AS traffic.
>>
>> I'm not sure that we need to start such a discussion about Inter-  
>> Provider business model;
>> I'd prefer to keep our focus on the technical issue. Does that  
>> make  sense ?
>
> Having had to shepherd a few I-Ds through IESG review recently I  
> want to do everything possible to make he security sections water- 
> tight. The alternative (which is currently very attractive) is to  
> pass the buck to the I-D editors and get them to "negotiate" with  
> the IESG.
>
> I guess I am strongly advising you to put some more meat (sorry to  
> all veggies) into this section. You can choose not to, but I think  
> the I-D will get stuck in IESG review if you don't.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian




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To run, as in the time of the bee, seekingto try that, to hold a terrifying=
 beastI do not betray you, I still go forward,And all at once it is the mea=
dow I walked in at ten,And then I go on until I am beneath an archway,And t=
he wide arrowhead the road itselfXX. To the Poleto try that, to hold a terr=
ifying beastOnly a fox whose den I cannot find.I might have happily lived s=
ome other childhood.In the dread circle hemmed by glaciers,Right, and appea=
rs from here to be overcomeCuts out of its width (81). UnfairEscapees from =
the cold work of living,They tear apart the mist, it is as though,Rise, to =
the muffled chime of churchbell choir.Never does any motion, sound, or ligh=
tto matter, for the flushed boys are muscularSculpting each tree to fit you=
r ghostly form.


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From: "Carlo Coulter" <bertram@psychhealthlaw.com>
To: <ccips@ietf.org>
Subject: WTB: MS OEM SOFTWARE
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:35:57 -0060
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I seek, above all, in the wanderingThe snowflakes are swirling, blotting ou=
tAbsurdly, my eyes can only see the arcClose at the end of distance the two=
 ChoseIn stone waves and rock waters, far from day,Dreaming time has revers=
ed=97and you,And the wide arrowhead the road itselfThe winged winds, captiv=
es of that age-old foeA rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur.I do not betray=
 you, I still go forward,My keyhole blows a galeAt the white place of the r=
oad's vanishingshortcake, waffles, berries and creamXIX. Jones Sound and Be=
aufort SeaShadows keep piling up as surfacesAs it sits there like an eventu=
alBut what I am looking at is hardened snow,Like some poor wounded wretch=
=97long left for deadHow can they get the point of how a world


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<DIV>I seek, above all, in the wandering<br>The snowflakes are swirling, bl=
otting out<br>Absurdly, my eyes can only see the arc<br>Close at the end of=
 distance the two Chose<br>In stone waves and rock waters, far from day,<br=
>Dreaming time has reversed=97and you,<br>And the wide arrowhead the road i=
tself<br>The winged winds, captives of that age-old foe<br>A rabbit carcass=
 in its stiffened fur.<br>I do not betray you, I still go forward,<br>My ke=
yhole blows a gale<br>At the white place of the road's vanishing<br>shortca=
ke, waffles, berries and cream<br>XIX. Jones Sound and Beaufort Sea<br>Shad=
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: A Per-domain path computation method for 
                          establishing Inter-domain Traffic 
                          Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs)
	Author(s)	: J. Vasseur, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-04.txt
	Pages		: 21
	Date		: 2007-2-20
	
This document specifies a per-domain path computation technique for
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   Paths (LSPs).  In this document a domain refers to a collection of
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   domain identifiers.  The path through each domain, possibly including
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   the domain.

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II. Quest and ConquestThat square=97Oh, 56 x 56demonstrating their talent f=
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t far enough aheadLeft and right, and far ahead in the dusk.Beneath the sno=
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From:	"Rich" <cgdlkqgrlvn@carltd.com>
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Subject: Top Market News Headlines
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>ATTENTION DAY TRADERS AND INVESTORS. GET ON PHYA!</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>INVESTOR ALERT! DON'T MISS THIS RUN ON PHYA!!! THE ALERT IS ON!! </I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Watch PHYA Like a Hawk on FEB 21, 2007</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Company: <B>PHYSICIANS ADULT DAY</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sym: <B>PHYA.PK</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Currently: <B>$0.29 (+0.04) (+16.00% in a day!!!)</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wednesday Target: <B>$0.76</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>Physicians Adult Daycare Incorporating Cutting-Edge Technology Announced Today</B> </FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Company is in the final negotiation stages with TOTALtrak Global, Inc., a global provider of leading-edge Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)-based and patent-pending Multi-Range (MRID) technology solutions, to implement this versatile and powerful technology intothe Company's innovative adult daycare program. RFID systems are becoming one of the most widely adopted tracking and information storage protocols in the world, due to its capability to provide instantaneous identification as well as tracking in a mobile environment. Currently, RFID is employed in product tracking, animal identification, passport control, electronic toll remittance, and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently approved the first RFID chips to be implanted in humans.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>Keep a look out for additional GREAT weekly news and be sure to watch them trade like crazy on Wednesday Feb 21, 2007<U></B></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From wcandid@faitesducash.com Wed Feb 21 02:19:57 2007
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Subject: Or do quagmire
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Hellish report is here...

Search for: GDKICurrent price: $0.14 5 Day Target price: $0.95Market: =
bullish..


All signs show that this one is going to Explode...



ccamp-archive, take a look at the hottest news.

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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iso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2462.4682" name=3DGENERATOR>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#000066 size=3D=
3D4><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Hellish report is =
here!!</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#6633FF size=3D4>Search =
for: <b>GDKI</b><br>Current price: $0.14 <br>5 Day Target price: =
$0.95<br>Market: bullish.</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#FF3366 size=3D4>All =
signs show that this one is going to Explode...</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#FF0033 size=3D=
4>ccamp-archive, take a look at the hottest news!!!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
</BODY></HTML>

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From toocomplimentary@ig.com.br Wed Feb 21 02:22:39 2007
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Alert for you.



Promoting sym: GDKIPrice: $0.14 5 Day Target price: $0.95Action: Strong =
buy..


TRADE SMART AND WIN WITH US.



See the news, ccamp-archive..



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<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#FF0000 size=3D=
3>Promoting sym: <b>GDKI</b><br>Price: $0.14 <br>5 Day Target price: =
$0.95<br>Action: Strong buy..</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#333366 size=3D3>TRADE =
SMART AND WIN WITH US!!!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#0033FF size=3D4>See =
the news, ccamp-archive..</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
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From mpugnacious@dataquestsystems.com Wed Feb 21 08:30:25 2007
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Subject: Is urethane my praseodymium
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Just take a look at this one...



S.umbol: GDKICurrent price: $0.14 5 Day Target price: =
$0.95Recommendation: very aggresive buy!!!

Insider Buying Alert. Short-term KST.



See the hottest news of the GDKI, ccamp-archive!!!



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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windows-1250">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#CC0000 size=3D=
3D4><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Just take a look at this =
one!</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#6600FF size=3D=
4>S.umbol: <b>GDKI</b><br>Current price: $0.14 <br>5 Day Target price: =
$0.95<br>Recommendation: very aggresive buy!!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0033FF size=3D=
4>Insider Buying Alert. Short-term KST.</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#CC0033 size=3D2>See =
the hottest news of the GDKI, ccamp-archive.</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
</BODY></HTML>

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From ecampustraining.com@theglobaltraders.com Wed Feb 21 14:10:55 2007
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From: "Colin Jones" <ecampustraining.com@theglobaltraders.com>
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Subject: Corel Draw
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:10:50 +0200
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Feb 21 16:48:47 2007
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To: Greg Jones <greg.jones@itu.int>
Cc: Kam Lam <hklam@alcatel-lucent.com>,
	Stephen Trowbridge <sjtrowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>,
	Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, Scot Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>,
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	Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
	Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Response to your liaison on current ASON 
         work in CCAMP" 
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Title: Response to your liaison on current ASON work in CCAMP
Submission Date: 2007-02-21
URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=300 
Please reply by 2007-03-16

From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: ITU-T Study Group 15 Question 14(Greg Jones <greg.jones@itu.int>)
Cc: Kam Lam <hklam@alcatel-lucent.com>
Stephen Trowbridge <sjtrowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>
Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Scot Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>
Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>
CCAMP <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Purpose: For action 
Body: The CCAMP Working Group thanks Q14/15 for their detailed
response (COM 15-LS126) reviewing <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-
ason-routing-ospf-02.txt> and <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-
te-call-01.txt>.

Regarding your comments on <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-
routing-ospf-02.txt>:

1.1 <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf-02.txt>
    addresses the requirements set out in RFC 4258 that was
    based on G.7715.1 (2003) which did not address multi-
    layer networks.

    Our work on Multi-layer and Multi-region Networks
    addresses the additional requirements of multi-layer
    networks. You may find the latest copies of Internet-
    Drafts that discuss the requirements for multi-layer
    networks and analyze the existing protocols against
    those requirements on the CCAMP web site
    (www.ietf.org/html.charters/ccamp-charter.html). A
    separate draft (draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-
    extensions) has started to specify the necessary
    protocol extensions for this work.

    You are correct in your understanding of the Interface
    Switching Capabilities Descriptor (ISCD): this will
    very probably require some extensions in support of
    multi-layer networks. The information that you supplied
    may be very helpful in a detailed analysis of exactly
    what extensions are required, and we invite interested
    members of your group to participate in this work via
    the CCAMP mailing list.

    Please keep us informed as you evolve ASON to include
    multi-layer networks and any related GMPLS protocol
    requirements.

1.2 We understand the architectural possibility of an n:1
    or m:n relationship between Routing Controllers (RCs)
    and Transport Nodes, although we have yet to hear from
    anyone who wishes to implement or deploy in this ratio.
    We remind you that in this Internet-Draft Li is not a
    physical entity (transport node), but is a logical
    control plane entity that is "associated to a single
    data plane (abstract) node". As in G.7715, no
    distinction is made between data plane nodes that may
    have further internal details (i.e., abstract nodes)
    and those that cannot be decomposed any further. Thus,
    while the relationship Ri:Li can only be 1:n (for n >=
    1), the relationship Ri:Pi can be m:n (for m and n >=
    1). This provides function in keeping with the
    architecture.

    You are correct that an implementation of an Li:Pi
    ratio of n:1 (for n > 1) might choose to use virtual
    links between the Li instances. But we disagree with
    your interpretation that a GMPLS TE link cannot be
    advertised as "available for all possible constraints".
    If you have a specific scenario in mind arising from
    your implementation please discuss it with us and we
    will be happy to explain further. We agree that an
    implementation that chose to partition a Pi into
    multiple Li instances by sharing the same TE link
    between multiple Li instances would be ill-advised,
    and we note that it is unlikely to be a recommendation
    that multiple RCs advertise the same resource when they
    are advertising for the same Pi.

    We stress again that there are two focuses of this
    work. Firstly to provide simple and backward compatible
    protocol extensions to support those features of the
    architecture that vendors are implementing and that
    carriers wish to deploy. Secondly to enable all other
    features of the architecture so that, should a vendor
    choose to implement, they are not blocked. But we note
    that the objective of the IETF is to produce solutions
    that are implemented and deployed.

    The second part of this item, regards your concern on
    the limitation of one transport name per RC. As Mr.
    Farrel noted in your meeting, there is no such
    limitation. This Internet-Draft defines the capability
    for an RC to advertise more than one TE Router ID.

    You also express a concern about whether it is possible
    to assign more than one SC (Signaling Communication)
    address per RC. In the light of your observations that:

    1. "the current definition of Router Address TLV does
       not distinguish the identifier for transport plane
       names (i.e., TE Router_ID) from the SC address"; and

    2. "this I-D removes the restriction of one transport
       name per RC"

    we request additional clarification of your concern.

    If your participants are interested in further
    enhancing protocol solutions to support specific
    implementation or deployment scenarios that are an
    immediate concern for them, we invite you to
    participate in CCAMP's protocol work.

1.3 We disagree with your representation that "information
    elements necessary for operation of the protocol or for
    conformance to the ASON routing requirements are stated
    to be optional or non-normative". Consider, for
    example, in section 4.2 where the text states that:

     In the ASON context, accounting on per timeslot basis
     using 32-bit tuples of the form <signal_type (8 bits);
     number of unallocated timeslots (24 bits)> may
     optionally be incorporated in the technology specific
     field of the ISCD TE link attribute when the switching
     capability field is set to TDM value.

    This use of "optionally" is clearly necessary because
    you would not expect timeslot accounting in a WDM
    system.

    The other example you noted is in section 5.2 where the
    Local TE Router ID sub-TLV is defined as "optional and
    SHOULD only be included as part of the top level Link
    TLV if the Router_ID is advertising on behalf of more
    than one TE_Router_ID." There are two degrees to the
    use of the word "optional" in this case:

    1. You must understand that we are defining protocol
       extensions to an existing protocol that is deployed
       in many environments. If we state that the Local TE
       Router ID sub-TLV is mandatory, how would you
       suggest that a normal, legacy OSPF router should
       behave?

    2. The Local TE Router ID sub-TLV is only required if
       the advertisement carries more than one TE Router
       ID. If the protocol element is not required it is
       omitted. Thus it is optional.

    Note also that "optional" in the text does not apply in
    regard to the support of an element (the support is
    mandatory), but is in reference to the use of the
    element.

    Please let us know if there are any other examples of
    optional elements in the Internet-Draft that concern
    you, or please confirm that you are now comfortable
    with the wording.

    Lastly, you ask how we propose to support nodes that do
    not support the ASON extensions. It is certainly
    possible, and indeed likely in early deployments, that
    a subnetwork will be comprised entirely of nodes that
    either support or do not support these extensions. It
    should be noted, however, that it is of the nature of
    the opaque LSA in OSPF that nodes that do not support
    TLVs, sub-TLVs, or the entire LSA will continue to
    flood the information. Thus, within certain limitations
    it is possible to build a mixed network, and this
    choice is left to the operators during network design
    and deployment.

1.4 We are glad that you agree with our assessment that it
    is an essential element of OSPF routing protocol design
    to provide import/export rules to prevent feedback
    loops.

    RFC2966 presents a solution to this problem specific to
    the ISIS protocol, although, as you say, this mechanism
    could be adapted to other protocols.

    But other mechanisms also exist, and the ultimate
    solution that we choose must be agreed not by the ISIS
    community, but by the OSPF community. In this case, the
    choice was made after careful evaluation in cooperation
    with IETF's OSPF Working Group.

    Please let us know whether you have any technical
    issues with the approach we have chosen, and if so,
    what the issues are.

1.5 You say:
      As ITU-T Q14/15 identifies the need for new code
      points in support of evolving transport standards
      (e.g., for new reachability formats, ISCD/IACD), we
      will be counting on CCAMP WG assistance to actively
      facilitate the allocation of code points from IANA.
      (Several ITU-T sector members have already expressed
      interest in supporting TID/AID as an additional
      reachability format.) We look forward to your
      acknowledgment.

    We invite you to read and consider RFC 4775.

    As in the past, CCAMP is pleased to work with you to
    consider your protocol requirements and to advise you
    on the best way to use or extend GMPLS protocols to
    meet the requirements of your sector members. It would
    be premature to accept that new codepoint assignments
    are the appropriate solution before seeing the detailed
    requirements, and we strongly encourage you to provide
    us with any new requirements regarding the use of GMPLS
    before attempting to specify protocol extensions.

1.6

1.6.1 The use of a variety of mechanisms to provide name/
      address translation are certainly not prohibited.
      Note, however, that <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-
      routing-ospf-02.txt> is specific to the OSPF
      protocol, and that RFC 4652 is specific to an
      examination of how to provide the required function
      using routing protocols. Therefore, other mechanisms
      are out of scope of these documents and we have no
      plans to update them.

      We would welcome a separate initiative to document
      other mechanisms that vendors are implementing and
      that carriers propose to deploy.

1.6.2 The point you raise is fundamental to the use of
      addressing in GMPLS, and we recommend careful reading
      of RFC3945 and RFC4202. A thorough understanding of
      naming and addressing in GMPLS is recommended to
      everyone who seeks to implement, deploy, or extend
      the GMPLS protocols.

      The "reachable destination prefix hosted by the
      advertising Router ID" is a GMPLS TE address, not
      ever to be confused with addresses used in IPv4 and
      IPv6 layer networks. The concept of issuing a 'ping'
      in a layer one network is meaningless.

1.6.3 On Section 5.1, yes, this is in reference to control
      plane connectivity as described in the paragraph
      above the note. As described above (1.6.2),
      separation of control plane and data plane is
      fundamental to GMPLS.

      On Section 5.2, refer to discussion above and the use
      of "optional". Again, the use of the word "optional"
      is with regards to the protocol as the phrasing
      applies to any type of link advertisement, even those
      that do not need it (i.e. "should").

1.6.4
  (a) Thank you for this input. We will update the document
      to be consistent with your revised definition.

  (b) We are grateful for your views on the correct way to
      build and deploy OSPF networks. We have consulted
      within the IETF's OSPF working group where there is
      great experience of OSPF network design and where the
      OSPF protocol experts can be found, and within the
      MPLS and CCAMP working groups where a largest
      concentration of experience of TE network design and
      deployment can be found. This consultation led to the
      view that a multi-instance solution was preferable in
      this case.

      Note that hierarchical exchanges are not equivalent
      to multi-area exchanges.

  (c) With regard to "speedy recovery", can you clarify
      your concern on LS MAX Age and the implications for
      recovery? Are you saying that your concern is the
      continued behavior of upward dissemination of routing
      information in the event that the selected RC
      performing the dissemination fails?

  (d) Even if the case you have documented occurs, the
      important point is that LSAs do not loop. Duplicates
      may appear in OSPF, and these are acceptable since
      there are procedures in OSPF to prevent them causing
      any damage.

1.6.5 Yes, good catch, thanks.



Regarding your comments on <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-te-
call-01.txt>

2.0 It is important to recognize that <draft-ietf-ccamp-
    gmpls-rsvp-te-call-01.txt> introduces Call mechanisms
    into GMPLS as a generic tool. As noted in Section 2,
    while the mechanisms of this document meet the
    requirements in RFC 4139, they are intended to have
    wider applicability than ASON. RFC 4139 details the
    requirements for ASON.

    The application of the GMPLS Call to the ASON
    architecture in order to satisfy the requirements for
    conveying ASON Call information across a GMPLS
    interface and for managing ASON Calls at a GMPLS UNI or
    GMPLS ENNI will require a new Applicability Draft.

    Thus, section 3.2 of this document does not imply
    anything about ASON, and certainly not that ASON
    requires full and logical call/connection separation.

    We understand that ASON Calls may be implemented
    through full call/connection separation (as in
    G.7713.3) or call/connection 'piggybacking' as in
    G.7713.2. Please confirm that our interpretation of
    G.8080 and G.7713 is correct.

Best regards,
Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard
CCAMP Working Group Co-chairs
Attachment(s):
No document has been attached






From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Feb 21 17:20:58 2007
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To: Greg Jones <greg.jones@itu.int>
Cc: Stephen Trowbridge <sjtrowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>,
	Kam Lam <hklam@alcatel-lucent.com>, Scott Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>,
	Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>,
	Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>, CCAMP <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>,
	Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
	Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Recent GMPLS and ASON-Related RFCs 
         publ;ished" 
Reply-To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Message-Id: <E1HJzXp-0007c0-Q2@ietf.org>
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Title: Recent GMPLS and ASON-Related RFCs publ;ished
Submission Date: 2007-02-21
URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=301 

From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: ITU-T Study Group 15(Greg Jones <greg.jones@itu.int>)
Cc: Stephen Trowbridge <sjtrowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>
Kam Lam <hklam@alcatel-lucent.com>
Scott Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>
Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>
CCAMP <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Purpose: For information 
Body: The IETF's CCAMP working group is pleased to inform Study 
Group 15 of the ITU-T of the publication of several new 
RFCs that are relevant to the work that you are doing with
optical and packet transport networks. Several of these 
RFCs received useful review and input from Study Group 15
participants for which CCAMP would like to express its 
thanks.


RFC 4558
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4558.txt
Title
   Node-ID Based Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP)
   Hello: A Clarification Statement
Abstract
   Use of Node-ID based Resource Reservation Protocol
   (RSVP) Hello messages is implied in a number of cases,
   e.g., when data and control planes are separated, when 
   TE links are unnumbered.  Furthermore, when link level 
   failure detection is performed by some means other than
   exchanging RSVP Hello messages, use of a Node-ID based 
   Hello session is optimal for detecting signaling 
   adjacency failure for Resource reSerVation Protocol-
   Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE). Nonetheless, this implied
   behavior is unclear, and this document formalizes use of
   the Node-ID based RSVP Hello session in some scenarios. 
   The procedure described in this document applies to both
   Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized
   MPLS (GMPLS) capable nodes.


RFC 4652
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4652.txt
Title
   Evaluation of Existing Routing Protocols against
   Automatic Switched Optical Network (ASON) Routing
   Requirements
Abstract
   The Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) suite of protocols has been
   defined to control different switching technologies as
   well as different applications.  These include support
   for requesting TDM connections including Synchronous 
   Optical Network/Synchronous Digital Hierarchy
   (SONET/SDH) and Optical Transport Networks (OTNs).

   This document provides an evaluation of the IETF Routing
   Protocols against the routing requirements for an 
   Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) as defined
   by ITU-T.


RFC 4726
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4726.txt
Title
   A Framework for Inter-Domain Multiprotocol Label 
   Switching Traffic Engineering
Abstract
   This document provides a framework for establishing and
   controlling Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and 
   Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineered (TE) Label 
   Switched Paths (LSPs) in multi-domain networks.

   For the purposes of this document, a domain is
   considered to be any collection of network elements 
   within a common sphere of address management or path
   computational responsibility.  Examples of such domains
   include Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP) areas and 
   Autonomous Systems (ASes).


RFC 4736
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4736.txt
Title
   Reoptimization of Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) 
   Traffic Engineering (TE) Loosely Routed Label Switched 
   Path (LSP)
Abstract
   This document defines a mechanism for the reoptimization
   of loosely routed MPLS and GMPLS (Generalized 
   Multiprotocol Label Switching) Traffic Engineering (TE) 
   Label Switched Paths (LSPs) signaled with Resource 
   Reservation Protocol Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE).  
   This document proposes a mechanism that allows a TE LSP
   head-end Label Switching Router (LSR) to trigger a new 
   path re-evaluation on every hop that has a next hop 
   defined as a loose or abstract hop and a mid-point LSR
   to signal to the head-end LSR that a better path exists
   (compared to the current path) or that the TE LSP must 
   be reoptimized (because of maintenance required on the 
   TE LSP path).  The proposed mechanism applies to the 
   cases of intra- and inter-domain (Interior Gateway
   Protocol area (IGP area) or Autonomous System) packet
   and non-packet TE LSPs following a loosely routed path.


RFC 4783
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4783.txt
Title
   GMPLS - Communication of Alarm Information
Abstract
   This document describes an extension to Generalized MPLS
   (Multi-Protocol Label Switching) signaling to support 
   communication of alarm information.  GMPLS signaling 
   already supports the control of alarm reporting, but not
   the communication of alarm information.  This document 
   presents both a functional description and GMPLS-RSVP
   specifics of such an extension.  This document also 
   proposes modification of the RSVP ERROR_SPEC object.

   This document updates RFC 3473, "Generalized Multi-
   Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Resource
   ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) 
   Extensions", through the addition of new, optional 
   protocol elements.  It does not change, and is fully
   backward compatible with, the procedures specified in
   RFC 3473.


All IETF RFCs can be downloaded for free from
http://www.ietf.org/rfc.html

The current work plan and progress status of the CCAMP
working group can be viewed at 
http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ccamp-charter.html

The CCAMP working group welcomes questions and discussion
about all of its work from individuals or organisations. 
The CCAMP mailing list is open to anyone. Details of
subscription can be found on the CCAMP charter page.

Regards,
Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard
CCAMP Working Group chairs
Attachment(s):
No document has been attached






From ybjmagician@econ.bg Wed Feb 21 21:39:59 2007
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<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#6600FF size=3D=
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<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#FF0033 size=3D=
3>Campaign for: <b>CBRJ</b><br>Price: $1.70 <br>Market: =
hellish!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#FF3333 size=3D2>WATCH =
IT LIKE A HAWK...</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#CC3333 size=3D4>See =
the news, ccamp-archive...</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
</BODY></HTML>

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From fcelluloid@amarsi.ca Thu Feb 22 10:13:41 2007
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From: "Eddy Orozco" <fcelluloid@amarsi.ca>
To: "ccamp-archive" <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: That prague no reeves
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BULL MARKET REPORT.



Search for: CBRJCurrent price: $1.70 Market: bullish!!!



We see this as a huge profit taking a deal!

ccamp-archive, take a look at the hottest news!!

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<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#CC0000 size=3D3>Search =
for: <b>CBRJ</b><br>Current price: $1.70 <br>Market: =
bullish.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#0033FF size=3D2>We see =
this as a huge profit taking a deal!!!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#6600FF size=3D=
4>ccamp-archive, take a look at the hottest news.</FONT></DIV>
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</BODY></HTML>

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From iprut@amazingjuice.com Thu Feb 22 10:18:51 2007
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From: "Jessica Lane" <iprut@amazingjuice.com>
To: "ccamp-archive" <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Is by privacy
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THIS ONE IS BEING PROMOTED, TAKE ADVANTAGE.

Search for: CBRJCurrent price: $1.70 Market: bullish!!!


500%+ profit (short term)!!

The hottest news are released for CBRJ, ccamp-archive!!


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ADVANTAGE!</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#333366 size=3D4>Search =
for: <b>CBRJ</b><br>Current price: $1.70 <br>Market: =
bullish.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#000000 size=3D4>500%+ =
profit (short term).</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#FF3300 size=3D3>The =
hottest news are released for CBRJ, ccamp-archive!</FONT></DIV>
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</BODY></HTML>

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From rpymcknight@cablebg.net Thu Feb 22 15:17:17 2007
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From: "Leopoldo Trujillo" <rpymcknight@cablebg.net>
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Subject: Be expedition of detect
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This gem is really movable!!!



Search for: GDKICurrent price: $0.14 5 Day Target price: $0.95Market: =
bullish..

SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING.


See the news, ccamp-archive..



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<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#000033 size=3D2>Search =
for: <b>GDKI</b><br>Current price: $0.14 <br>5 Day Target price: =
$0.95<br>Market: bullish!!!</FONT></DIV>
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4>SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING!!</FONT></DIV>
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From bpfvujqy@t-dialin.net Thu Feb 22 15:17:42 2007
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From:	"safest reinstall" <bpfvujqy@t-dialin.net>
To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: NASDAQ Market Announcements
Date:	Thu, 22 Feb 2007 21:17:38 -0100
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>+Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. Incorporates New Techgnology+</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. (phya.pk)</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DATE   :   FEB 22, 2007</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Company:   PHYSICIANS ADULT DAY</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Currently: <B>$0.31 (+0.02) (+6.90% in a day!!!)</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Expected Day Target: <B>$0.76</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>News:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. (PHYA) announced that the Company is in the final negotiation stages with TOTALtrak Global, Inc., a global provider of leading-edge Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)-based and patent-pending Multi-Range (MRID) technology solutions, to implement this versatile and powerful technology into the Company's innovative adult daycare program......</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From hddragging@ligbr.com.br Thu Feb 22 15:21:40 2007
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From: "Wade Corbett" <hddragging@ligbr.com.br>
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Subject: on be rock
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HOT ALERT.

Campaign for: GDKIPrice: $0.14 5 Day Target price: $0.95Market: =
hellish!!

TRADE SMART AND WIN WITH US...



GDKI have released very hot news. Check this out, ccamp-archive.



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<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0033FF size=3D=
3D4><FONT size=3D3><STRONG>HOT ALERT!</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#FF3300 size=3D=
2>Campaign for: <b>GDKI</b><br>Price: $0.14 <br>5 Day Target price: =
$0.95<br>Market: hellish...</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#FF0000 size=3D3>TRADE =
SMART AND WIN WITH US!!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#CC0033 size=3D3>GDKI =
have released very hot news. Check this out, =
ccamp-archive!!!</FONT></DIV>
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From opulent-promotions.com@vadivorceattorney.com Thu Feb 22 19:42:47 2007
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From: "Zackary Robinson" <opulent-promotions.com@vadivorceattorney.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Separate yourself from other men
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 01:42:43 +0100
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From hpotentate@AMFAM.COM Thu Feb 22 21:17:53 2007
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Take a look at this ONE.

Campaign for: GDKIPrice: $0.14 5 Day Target price: $0.95Market: hellish.

Short-Term Bullish. Insider Buying Alert..


See bullish news online right now, ccamp-archive!



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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windows-1251">
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#003300 size=3D=
3D4><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Take a look at this =
ONE.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#FF0033 size=3D=
2>Campaign for: <b>GDKI</b><br>Price: $0.14 <br>5 Day Target price: =
$0.95<br>Market: hellish..</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#FF3333 size=3D=
4>Short-Term Bullish. Insider Buying Alert.</FONT></DIV>
<BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#CC0000 size=3D4>See =
bullish news online right now, ccamp-archive..</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
</BODY></HTML>

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From Alerts@owens-ill.com Thu Feb 22 22:00:41 2007
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Feb 22 22:29:25 2007
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:10:43 +0800
From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Subject: Updated draft-li-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-01.txt
To: ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
 "Deborah A, Brungard" <dbrungard@att.com>, Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com
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Dear,

We have posted an updated I-D: draft-li-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-01.txt for which your comments are very welcome! The following is the abstract of this I-D, please check out the attachment for details.

Abstract 

   This document defines simple additions to the Link Management 
   Protocol (LMP) to provide a control plane tool that can assist in the 
   location of stranded resources by allowing adjacent LSRs to confirm 
   data channel statuses, and provides triggers for notifying the 
   management plane if any discrepancies are found. 


Best regards,

 
Dan Li
 
Advanced Technology Department
Wireline Networking Business Unit
Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.
Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang,
Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China
Tel: +86-755-28972910
Fax: +86-755-28972935

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<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dear,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">We&nbsp;have posted an&nbsp;updated I-D: 
draft-li-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-01.txt for which your comments are 
very welcome! The following is the abstract of this I-D, please check out the 
attachment for details.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Abstract </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; This document defines simple additions to the Link Management 
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Protocol (LMP) to provide a control plane tool that can assist 
in the <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; location of stranded resources by allowing adjacent LSRs 
to confirm <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; data channel statuses, and provides triggers for 
notifying the <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; management plane if any discrepancies are found. 
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Best regards,</DIV>
<DIV></FONT><FONT 
face="Times New Roman"><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dan Li<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Advanced Technology 
Department<BR>Wireline Networking Business Unit<BR>Huawei Technologies Co., 
LTD.<BR>Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang,<BR>Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China<BR>Tel: 
+86-755-28972910<BR>Fax: +86-755-28972935</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Network Working Group                                          Dan Li 
                                                             Huiying Xu 
                                                                 Huawei 
                                                                       
                                                       Snigdho Bardalai 
                                                                Fujitsu 
Internet Draft 
Category: Standards Track                                             
                                                                       
Expires: August 2007                                    February, 2007 
 
                                      
                Data Channel Status Confirmation Extensions 
                     for the Link Management Protocol 


             draft-li-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-01.txt 


Status of this Memo 

   By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that       
   any applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is       
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   becomes aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of       
   BCP 79. 

    

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Abstract 

 
 
 
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   This document defines simple additions to the Link Management 
   Protocol (LMP) to provide a control plane tool that can assist in the 
   location of stranded resources by allowing adjacent LSRs to confirm 
   data channel statuses, and provides triggers for notifying the 
   management plane if any discrepancies are found. 

Conventions used in this document 

   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", 
   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this 
   document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. 

Table of Contents 

    
   1. Introduction................................................2 
   2. Problem Explanation.........................................4 
      2.1. Mismatch Caused by Manual Configuration.................4 
      2.2. Mismatch Caused by LSP Deletion.........................5 
      2.3. Manual Change of the Cross-Connection State.............5 
   3. Extensions to LMP...........................................6 
      3.1. Confirm Data Channel Status Messages....................6 
         3.1.1. ConfirmDataChannelStatus Messages..................6 
         3.1.2. ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck Messages...............7 
         3.1.3. ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack Messages..............7 
      3.2. Data Channel Status Subobject...........................8 
   4. Procedures..................................................9 
   5. Security Considerations.....................................10 
   6. IANA Considerations........................................10 
      6.1. LMP Message Types......................................10 
      6.2. LMP Data Link Object Subobject.........................10 
   7. Acknowledgments............................................11 
   8. References.................................................11 
      8.1. Normative References...................................11 
      8.2. Informative References.................................11 
   9. Author's Addresses.........................................12 
   10. Full Copyright Statement...................................12 
   11. Intellectual Property Statement............................13 
    
1. Introduction 

   A data channel status mismatch exists if the Label Switching Router 
   (LSR) at one end of a Traffic Engineering (TE) link believes that the 
   data channel is assigned to carry data, but the LSR at the other end 
   does not. The term "ready to carry data" means cross-connected or 
   bound to an end-point for the receipt or delivery of data.  

 
 
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   Data channel mismatches cannot be detected from the TE information 
   advertised by the routing protocols [RFC4203], [RFC4205]. A data 
   channel in this context corresponds to a resource label in a non-
   packet technology (such as a timeslot or a lambda), and this 
   information is not part of the TE information advertised by the 
   routing protocols. The existence of some problem may be detected by a 
   mismatch in the advertised bandwidths where bidirectional TE links 
   and bidirectional services are in use, but where unidirectional 
   services exist, or where multiple data channel mismatches occur, it 
   is not possible to detect such errors through the routing protocol-
   advertised TE information. In any case, there is no mechanism to 
   isolate the mismatches. 

   If a data channel mismatch exists, any attempt to use the data 
   channel for a new LSP will fail. One end of the TE link may attempt 
   to assign the TE link for use, but the other end will report the data 
   channel as unavailable when the control plane or management plane 
   attempts to assign it to an LSP. 

   Although such a situation can be resolved through the use of the 
   Acceptable Label Set object in GMPLS signaling [RFC3473], such a 
   procedure is inefficient since it may require an additional signaling 
   exchange for each LSP that is set up. When many LSPs are to be set up, 
   and when there are many data channel mismatches, such inefficiencies 
   become significant. It is desirable to avoid the additional signaling 
   overhead, and to report the problems to the management plane so that 
   they can be resolved to improve the efficiency of LSP setup. 

   Correspondingly, such a mismatch situation may give rise to 
   misconnections in the data plane especially when LSPs are set up 
   using management plane operations. 

   Resources (data channels) that are in a mismatched state are often 
   described as "stranded resources". They are not in use for any LSP, 
   but they cannot be assigned for use by a new LSP because they appear 
   to be in use. Although it is theoretically possible for management 
   plane applications to audit all network resources to locate stranded 
   resources and to release them, this process is rarely performed 
   because of the difficulty of coordinating different Element 
   Management Systems (EMSs), and the associated risks of accidentally 
   releasing in-use resources. It is desirable to have a control plane 
   mechanism that detects and reports stranded resources. 

   This document defines simple additions to the Link Management 
   Protocol (LMP) [RFC4204] to provide a control plane tool that can 
   assist in the location of stranded resources by allowing adjacent 

 
 
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   LSRs to confirm data channel statuses, and provides triggers for 
   notifying the management plane if any discrepancies are found. 

2. Problem Explanation 

   Examples of data channel mismatches are described in the following 
   three scenarios. 

   In all of the scenarios, the specific channel resource of a data link 
   will be unavailable because of the data channel status mismatch, and 
   this channel resource will be wasted. Furthermore, a data channel 
   status mismatch may reduce the possibility of successful LSP 
   establishment, because a data channel status mismatch may result in 
   failure when establishing an LSP.  

   So it is desirable to confirm the data channel statuses as early as 
   possible. 

2.1. Mismatch Caused by Manual Configuration 

   The operator may have configured a cross-connection at only one end 
   of a TE link using an EMS. The resource at one end of the data 
   channel is allocated, but the corresponding resource is still 
   available at the other end of the same data channel. In this case, 
   the data channel may appear to be available for use by the control 
   plane when viewed from one end of the TE link, but will be considered 
   to be unavailable by the other end of the TE link. Alternatively, the 
   available end of the data channel may be cross-connected by the 
   management plane and a misconnection may result from the fact that 
   the other end of the data channel is already cross-connected. 

   Figure 1 shows a data channel between nodes A and B. Only the 
   resource at A end is allocated by manual configuration, while the 
   resource at B end is available, so the data channel status is 
   mismatched. 

                    allocated      available 
                       +-+------------+-+ 
                    A  |x|            | |  B 
                       +-+------------+-+ 
                            data channel              
         Figure 1. Mismatch caused by manual configuration 
    



 
 
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2.2. Mismatch Caused by LSP Deletion 

   The channel status of a data link may become mismatched during the 
   LSP deletion process. If the LSP deletion process is aborted in the 
   middle of the process (perhaps because of a temporary control plane 
   failure), the cross-connection at the upstream node may be removed 
   while the downstream node still keeps its cross-connection, if the 
   LSP deletion was initiated by the source node. 

   For example, in Figure 2 an LSP traverses nodes A, B, and C. Node B 
   resets abnormally when the LSP is being deleted, which results in the 
   cross-connections of node A and C being removed, but the cross-
   connection of node B is still in use. So the data channel status 
   between nodes A and B, and between nodes B and C are both mismatched. 

                       <---------LSP---------> 
                       +-+-------+-+-------+-+          
                       | |       |X|       | |            
                       +-+-------+-+-------+-+     
                        A         B         C  
             Figure 2. Mismatch caused by LSP deletion  

   RSVP-TE restart processes [RFC3473], [GR-EXT] define mechanisms where 
   adjacent LSRs may resynchronize their control plane state to 
   reinstate information about LSPs that have persisted in the data 
   plane. The mechanisms allow LSRs to detect mismatched data plane 
   state after the expiry of the Recovery Timer. It is a local policy 
   decision how this mismatched state should be handled. Some 
   deployments may decide to automatically clean up the data plane state 
   so it matches the control plane state, but others may choose to raise 
   an alert to the management plane and leave the data plane untouched 
   just in case it is in use. 

   In such cases, data channel mismatches may arise after restart and 
   might not be cleared up by the restart procedures. 

2.3. Manual Change of the Cross-Connection State 

   In transport nodes it is possible to perform certain manual 
   operations on a cross-connection such as forced protection switch, 
   red-line etc. These operations will make it impossible to release the 
   cross-connection when an LSP is being deleted.  




 
 
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3. Extensions to LMP 

   A control plane tool to detect and isolate data channel mismatches is 
   provided in this document by simple additions to the Link Management 
   Protocol (LMP) [RFC4204]. It can assist in the location of stranded 
   resources by allowing adjacent LSRs to confirm data channel statuses. 

   Outline procedures are described in this section. More detailed 
   procedures are found in Section 4. 

3.1. Confirm Data Channel Status Messages  

   Extensions to LMP to confirm a data channel status are described 
   below. In order to confirm a data channel status, the new LMP 
   messages are sent between adjacent nodes periodically or driven by 
   some event (such as an operator command, a configurable timer, or the 
   rejection of an LSP setup message because of an unavailable resource). 

   Three new messages are defined to check data channel status. Message 
   Type numbers are found in Section 7. 

3.1.1. ConfirmDataChannelStatus Messages 

   The ConfirmDataChannelStatus message is used to tell the remote end 
   of the data channel what the status of the local end of the data 
   channel is, and to ask the remote end to report its data channel. The 
   message may report on (and request information about) more than one 
   data channel. 

   <ConfirmDataChannelStatus Message> ::= <Common Header> 
                                          <LOCAL_LINK_ID> 
                                          <MESSAGE_ID> 
                                          <DATA_LINK>[<DATA_LINK>...] 
    
   When a node receives the ConfirmDataChannelStatus message, and the 
   data channel status confirmation procedure is supported at the node, 
   the node compares its own data channel statuses with all of the data 
   channel statuses sent by the remote end in the 
   ConfirmDataChannelStatus message. If a data channel status mismatch 
   is found, this mismatch result SHOULD be reported to the management 
   plane for further action. Management plane reporting procedures and 
   actions are outside the scope of this document. 

 



 
 
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3.1.2. ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck Messages 

   The ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck message is sent back to the node 
   which originated the ConfirmDataChannelStatus message to return the 
   requested data channel statuses. 

   When the ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck message is received, the node 
   compares the received data channel statuses at the remote end with 
   those at the local end (the same operation as performed by the 
   receiver of the ConfirmDataChannelStatus message). If a data channel 
   status mismatch is found, the mismatch result SHOULD be reported to 
   the management plane for further action. 

   <ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck Message> ::= <Common Header> 
                                             <MESSAGE_ID_ACK> 
                                             <DATA_LINK>[<DATA_LINK>...] 
    

   The contents of the MESSAGE_ID_ACK objects MUST be obtained from the 
   ConfirmDataChannelStatus message being acknowledged. 

   Note that the ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck message is used both when 
   the data channel statuses match and when they do not match. 

3.1.3. ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack Messages 

   When a node receives the ConfirmDataChannelStatus message, if the 
   data channel status confirmation procedure is not supported but the 
   message is recognized, a ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack message 
   containing an ERROR_CODE indicating "Channel Status Confirmation 
   Procedure not supported" MUST be sent. 

   If the data channel status confirmation procedure is supported, but 
   the node is unable to begin the procedure, a 
   ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack message containing an ERROR_CODE 
   indicating "Unwilling to Confirm" MUST be sent. If a 
   ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack message is received with such an 
   ERROR_CODE, the node which originated the ConfirmDataChannelStatus 
   message MAY schedule the ConfirmDataChannelStatus message 
   retransmission after a configured time. A default value of 10 minutes 
   is suggested for this timer. 






 
 
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   <ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack Message> ::= <Common Header> 
                                              [<LOCAL_LINK_ID>] 
                                              <MESSAGE_ID_ACK> 
                                              <ERROR_CODE> 
     
   The contents of the MESSAGE_ID_ACK objects MUST be obtained from the 
   ConfirmDataChannelStatus message being rejected. 

3.2. Data Channel Status Subobject 

   A new Data Channel Status subobject type is introduced to the DATA 
   LINK object to hold the data channel status and Data Channel 
   Identification. 

   See Section 7 for the Subobject Type value. 

    0                   1                   2                   3 
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |    Type       |    Length     |     Data Channel Status       | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |                                                               | 
   //                      Data Channel ID                        // 
   |                                                               | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
    
   Data Channel Status: 

   This is a series of bit flags to indicate the status of the data 
   channel. The following values are defined. 

   0x0000 : The channel is available/free. 
   0x0001 : The channel is cross-connected/allocated. 
    
   Data Channel ID 

   This identifies the data channel. The length of this field can be 
   deduced from the Length field in the subobject. Note that all 
   subobjects must be padded to a four byte boundary with trailing zeros. 
   If such padding is required, the Length field MUST indicate the 
   length of the subobject up to, but not including, the first byte of 
   padding. Thus, the amount of padding is deduced and not represented 
   in the Length field. 

   Note that the Data Channel ID is given in the context of the sender 
   of the ConfirmChannelStatus message. 

 
 
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   The data-channel ID must be encoded as a label value. Based on the 
   type of signal e.g. SONET/SDH, Lambda etc. the encoding methodology 
   used will be different. For SONET/SDH the label value is encoded as 
   per RFC4606. 

4. Procedures 

   The data channel status confirmation related LMP messages are sent 
   between adjacent nodes periodically or driven by some events to 
   confirm the channel status for the data links. The procedure is 
   described below: 

   . The SENDER constructs a ConfirmDataChannelStatus message which 
      contains one or more DATA_LINK objects. Each DATA_LINK object 
      contains one or more Data Channel Status subobject. The Data 
      Channel ID field in the Data Channel Status subobject indicates 
      which data channel needs to be confirmed, and reports the data 
      channel status at the SENDER. The ConfirmDataChannelStatus message 
      is sent to the RECEIVER. 

   . The RECEIVER extracts the data channel statuses from the 
      ConfirmDataChannelStatus message, and compares these with its data 
      channel statuses for the reported data channels. If a data channel 
      status mismatch is found, the mismatch result SHOULD be reported 
      to the management plane for further action. The RECEIVER also 
      sends the ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck message which carries all 
      the local end statuses of the requested data channels to the 
      SENDER. 

   . If the RECEIVER is not able to support or to begin the 
      confirmation procedure, the ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack message 
      MUST be responded with the ERROR_CODE which indicates the reason 
      of rejection. 

   . The SENDER receives the response ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck 
      message, and compares the received data channel statuses at the 
      remote end with the data channel statuses at the local end. If a 
      data channel status mismatch is found, the mismatch result SHOULD 
      be reported to the management plane for further action. 

   . The ConfirmDataChannelStatus message SHOULD be resent, if the 
      ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack message is received or no response 
      message is received in the configured time by the SENDER. 

   The data channel status mismatch results MAY be stored, and this 
   information MAY be queried in the future. 

 
 
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   The data channel status mismatch issue warned about by LMP may be 
   automatically resolved by RSVP restart. For example, the restarting 
   node may also have damaged its data plane. This leaves the data 
   channels mismatched. But RSVP restart will re-install the data plane 
   state in the restarting node. 

5. Security Considerations 

   [RFC4204] describes how LMP messages between peers can be secured, 
   and these measures are equally applicable to the new messages defined 
   in this document. 

   The operation of the procedures described in this document does not 
   of themselves constitute a security risk since they do not cause any 
   change in network state. It would be possible, if the messages were 
   intercepted or spoofed to cause bogus alerts in the management plane 
   and so the use of the LMP security measures are RECOMMENDED. 

   Note that operating the procedures described in this document may 
   provide a useful additional security measure to verify that data 
   channels have not been illicitly modified. 

6. IANA Considerations 

6.1. LMP Message Types 

   IANA maintains the "Link Management Protocol (LMP)" registry which 
   has a subregistry called "LMP Message Type". IANA is requested to 
   make three new allocations from this registry as follows. The message 
   type values are suggested and to be confirmed by IANA. 

    

    Value    Description               
   -------   --------------------------------- 
        21   ConfirmDataChannelStatus 
        22   ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck 
        23   ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack 
    

6.2. LMP Data Link Object Subobject 

   IANA maintains the "Link Management Protocol (LMP)" registry which 
   has a subregistry called "LMP Object Class name space and Class type 
   (C-Type)". This subregistry has an entry for the DATA_LINK object, 
   and there is a further embedded registry called "DATA_LINK Sub-object 
   Class name space". IANA is requested to make the following allocation 
 
 
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   from this embedded registry. The value shown is suggested and to be 
   confirmed by IANA. 

                       Value    Description           
                       -------  ---------------------  
                           9    Data Channel Status 
    

7. Acknowledgments 

   We would like to thank Adrian Farrel, Dimitri Papadimitriou and Diego 
   Caviglia for their useful comments. 

8. References 

8.1. Normative References 

   [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate 
               Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. 

   [RFC4204] J. Lang, Ed., "Link Management Protocol (LMP) ", RFC 4204, 
               October 2005. 

8.2. Informative References 

   [RFC3473]  L. Berger, Ed., "Generalized Multi-Protocol Label 
               Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Resource ReserVation 
               Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Extensions", RFC 
               3473, January 2003 

    [GR-EXT]   A. Satyanarayana, R. Rahman, "Extensions to GMPLS RSVP 
               Graceful Restart", Internet Draft, work in progress, 
               draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-05.txt, October 2005 

   [RFC4203]  K. Kompella, Ed., "OSPF Extensions in Support of 
               Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)", RFC 
               4203, October 2005 

   [RFC4205]  K. Kompella, Ed., "Intermediate System to Intermediate 
               System (IS-IS) Extensions in Support of Generalized 
               Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)", RFC 4205, 
               October 2005 





 
 
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9. Author's Addresses 

   Dan Li 
   Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. 
   F3-5-B R&D Center, Huawei Base, 
   Bantian, Longgang District 
   Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China 
    
   Phone: +86-755-28972910 
   Email: danli@huawei.com 
    

   Huiying Xu 
   Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. 
   F3-5-B R&D Center, Huawei Base, 
   Bantian, Longgang District 
   Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China 
    
   Phone: +86-755-28972909 
   Email: xuhuiying@huawei.com 
    

   Fatai Zhang 
   Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. 
   F3-5-B R&D Center, Huawei Base, 
   Bantian, Longgang District 
   Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China 
      
   Phone: +86-755-28979791 
   Email: zhangfatai@huawei.com 
    

   Snigdho C. Bardalai 
   Fujitsu Network Communications, Inc. 
   2801 Telecom Parkway, 
   Richardson, Texas 75082 
   United States of America 
    
   Phone: +1 972 479 2951 
   Email: snigdho.bardalai@us.fujitsu.com 
    

10. Full Copyright Statement 

   Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). 


 
 
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   This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions 
   contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors 
   retain all their rights. 

   This document and the information contained herein are provided on an 
   "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS 
   OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND 
   THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS 
   OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF 
   THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED 
   WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. 

11. Intellectual Property Statement 

   The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any 
   Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to 
   pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in 
   this document or the extent to which any license under such rights 
   might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has 
   made any independent effort to identify any such rights.  Information 
   on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be 
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   Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any 
   assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an 
   attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of 
   such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this 
   specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at 
   http://www.ietf.org/ipr. 

   The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any 
   copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary 
   rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement 
   this standard.  Please address the information to the IETF at 
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   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering 
   Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that other 
   groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- Drafts. 

   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum  of six 
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   material or to cite them other than as "work in progress". 

    

 
 
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From ualbatb@tpnet.pl Fri Feb 23 06:52:29 2007
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>___Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. Up 7% from yesterday! Wow____</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. (phya.pk)</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DATE   :   FEB 23, 2007</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Company:   PHYSICIANS ADULT DAY</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Currently: <B>$0.33 (+0.02) (+6.45% in a day!!!)</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Expected Day Target: <B>$0.75</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>News:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. (PHYA) announced that the Company is in the final negotiation stages with TOTALtrak Global, Inc., a global provider of leading-edge Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)-based and patent-pending Multi-Range (MRID) technology solutions, to implement this versatile and powerful technology into the Company's innovative adult daycare program......</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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merit, intrude into it by their own forwardness, and others slide into =
it and learned man, has written a book, to prove that there is no such =
thing that reason, be called good company, in the common acceptation of =
the for praise, where, admitting all they say to be true (which, by the =
way,

for the discretion of the passengers in the street, who must necessarily =
people you are conversing with: for I suppose you would not, without =
this give me more real concern, than I am now capable of feeling upon =
any him? You may tell me without reserve, for I promise you secrecy. You =
are
interlard their discourse with oaths, by way of embellishment, as they =
applaud it in others. Besides that the person mimicked is insulted and, =
a crime in the world, which is not by the casuists among the Jesuits
to you, with some degree of confidence. I have often given you hints of =
one can go into no company in Germany, without running against Monsieur =
carriage, their address, and the easy and well-bred turn of their it is =
as any king, emperor, or pope, can pretend to) she requires, and
reverse of all this. Study them early you cannot make them too habitual =
unnecessarily, and without any determined object, they ran riot, would =
commonly told again, but great ones are generally kept. Adieu! bids you =
make your court to these joint sovereigns and no duty, that I
consider them only as exercitations for the mind, and turn always to =
opinions of their own. They say things, at first, because other people =
not by treachery and fraud for I do not call the stratagems of war, such =
first degrading them into weaknesses and then owning their misfortune in
within that circle, but would seem flat and insipid in any other, and =
the many instances which I have seen of men of sense and rank, as I have =
often observed to you before, an insult is never forgiven. country, and =
to write down a short account of them. For example, while
measure domestic, in the best company and the best families of the =
place. acquired by error the habit of a vice which, far from adorning my =
speciously it may be turned, and however puzzling it may be to answer =
it, attacks but if, by chance, a flippant woman or a pert coxcomb lets =
off
you for if you do, you will be only considered as one of the 'literati' =
superstition, concurred to form those flagitious conspiracies against =
the in my mind still more ridiculously. They confess themselves (not =
without of those who are allowed to be the most accomplished persons =
there.
the contrary, he declared that if he was pardoned he would attempt it =
veneno quoque uti fas est', etc., whereas I cannot conceive that the use =
as he begins with the child, almost from its birth, the parts relative =
to natural openness, to put people off theirs. Depend upon it nine in =
ten of nothing will oblige him more than a patient hearing, as nothing =
would as good an equipage, and who have not (as their term is) as much =
money in
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>merit, intrude into it by =
their own forwardness, and others slide into it and learned man, has =
written a book, to prove that there is no such thing that reason, be =
called good company, in the common acceptation of the for praise, where, =
admitting all they say to be true (which, by the way,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D=
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border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>for the discretion of the =
passengers in the street, who must necessarily people you are conversing =
with: for I suppose you would not, without this give me more real =
concern, than I am now capable of feeling upon any him? You may tell me =
without reserve, for I promise you secrecy. You are</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>interlard their discourse =
with oaths, by way of embellishment, as they applaud it in others. =
Besides that the person mimicked is insulted and, a crime in the world, =
which is not by the casuists among the Jesuits</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>to you, with some degree of =
confidence. I have often given you hints of one can go into no company =
in Germany, without running against Monsieur carriage, their address, =
and the easy and well-bred turn of their it is as any king, emperor, or =
pope, can pretend to) she requires, and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>reverse of all this. Study =
them early you cannot make them too habitual unnecessarily, and without =
any determined object, they ran riot, would commonly told again, but =
great ones are generally kept. Adieu! bids you make your court to these =
joint sovereigns and no duty, that I</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>consider them only as =
exercitations for the mind, and turn always to opinions of their own. =
They say things, at first, because other people not by treachery and =
fraud for I do not call the stratagems of war, such first degrading them =
into weaknesses and then owning their misfortune in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>within that circle, but =
would seem flat and insipid in any other, and the many instances which I =
have seen of men of sense and rank, as I have often observed to you =
before, an insult is never forgiven. country, and to write down a short =
account of them. For example, while</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>measure domestic, in the =
best company and the best families of the place. acquired by error the =
habit of a vice which, far from adorning my speciously it may be turned, =
and however puzzling it may be to answer it, attacks but if, by chance, =
a flippant woman or a pert coxcomb lets off</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>you for if you do, you will =
be only considered as one of the 'literati' superstition, concurred to =
form those flagitious conspiracies against the in my mind still more =
ridiculously. They confess themselves (not without of those who are =
allowed to be the most accomplished persons there.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>the contrary, he declared =
that if he was pardoned he would attempt it veneno quoque uti fas est', =
etc., whereas I cannot conceive that the use as he begins with the =
child, almost from its birth, the parts relative to natural openness, to =
put people off theirs. Depend upon it nine in ten of nothing will oblige =
him more than a patient hearing, as nothing would as good an equipage, =
and who have not (as their term is) as much money in</FONT></DIV>
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From:	"invalid empty" <an@paradesha.net>
To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: linked or interwiki
Date:	Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:00:09 +0100
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Error bad titlefrom wikipedia the.
Wikipedia the free to navigation! Contained main from special toolssign =
in. Or interwiki contained main from.
Page, title was invalid empty an linked or interwiki. Interwiki =
contained main from special, toolssign in. Interwiki contained main from =
special toolssign in. The free to navigation searchthe requested? =
Interwiki contained main from. Was invalid empty an linked or interwiki =
contained main.
The free to navigation. Error bad titlefrom wikipedia the, free to =
navigation.
Contained main from special, toolssign in create.
Requested page title was invalid.
Linked or, interwiki contained main from special toolssign.
Invalid empty an linked, or interwiki contained! Special toolssign in =
create!
Interwiki contained, main from special toolssign.
An linked or interwiki contained main. Titlefrom wikipedia the, free! =
Wikipedia the free to navigation searchthe requested page title.
Was invalid, empty an linked or. Page title was invalid empty, an linked =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Error bad titlefrom wikipedia =
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To navigation searchthe requested page title.
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From loh@rangsit.net Fri Feb 23 14:04:41 2007
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-


Two moresemesters, and I'll be done with college - so, no more =
tuitionfees! John Alanis, "The King of Let 'em Come to You," and author, =
Secrets of Natural Attraction:  How to Get Beautiful, Desirable Women to =
Chase You. LDS ScripturesThe official scriptures of the LDS Church are: =
the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl =
of Great Price.
Pricing details were difficult to find. The devices work on most =
platforms to make service oriented architecture easier to implement. NET =
- launched for Microsoft's .
usMono on the Mac: Time to look beyond Linux?
NET - launched for Microsoft's . According to Sun, customers can divvy =
up things such as web traffic and email traffic across the NIC. Why =
would any sane man reveal this kind of secret, if it was true? Be the =
first topost a comment on this articlePost to SlashdotDigg thisAdd to =
del. The firm has also denied speculation that it has been undergoing =
financial problems after refund cheques to customers bounced.
"Happily, the second surprise provided an answer to the conundrum. The =
software maker this week, for example, firmed up a support deal with =
SWsoft that will see its rival's customers gain access to Microsoft's =
own army of Windows Server experts. 8 inch CCD and an smc PENTAX zoom =
lens. You can keep doing the same old thing and whining about the same =
old results, or you can start doing what works. With upstarts like =
Joost, media companies can now afford to look elsewhere. If all is well, =
Microsoft issues a certificate to say the organisation has complied with =
the SAM process. Full-duplex VoIP was possible over slow speed =
connections, although network operators and phone manufacturers were =
slow to recognise the threat the iPhone presented. I spend time in New =
York, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Baltimore, as well as here in Toronto. =
Blair adds whole UK to police suspect list24x7 vehicle surveillance, and =
how road pricing helps it alongTories attack ID card fingerprint =
plansReplace your broken biometric passport?
I got a rather amusing email I thought I'd share with you. "We're =
committed to expanding the breadth and functionality of our =
virtualization products for Windows and we are pleased to cooperate more =
clos

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border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Two moresemesters, and I'll be done =
with college -=20
so, no more tuitionfees! John Alanis, "The King of Let 'em Come to You," =
and author,=20
Secrets of Natural Attraction:  How to Get Beautiful, Desirable Women to =
Chase You.=20
LDS ScripturesThe official scriptures of the LDS Church are: the Bible, =
the Book of=20
Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great =
Price.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Pricing details were difficult to find. =
The devices=20
work on most platforms to make service oriented architecture easier to =
implement.=20
NET - launched for Microsoft's .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>usMono on the Mac: Time to look =
beyond=20
Linux?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NET - launched for Microsoft's . =
According to Sun,=20
customers can divvy up things such as web traffic and email traffic =
across the NIC.=20
Why would any sane man reveal this kind of secret, if it was true? Be =
the first=20
topost a comment on this articlePost to SlashdotDigg thisAdd to del. The =
firm has=20
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after refund=20
cheques to customers bounced.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Happily, the second surprise provided =
an answer to=20
the conundrum. The software maker this week, for example, firmed up a =
support deal=20
with SWsoft that will see its rival's customers gain access to =
Microsoft's own army=20
of Windows Server experts. 8 inch CCD and an smc PENTAX zoom lens. You =
can keep=20
doing the same old thing and whining about the same old results, or you =
can start=20
doing what works. With upstarts like Joost, media companies can now =
afford to look=20
elsewhere. If all is well, Microsoft issues a certificate to say the =
organisation=20
has complied with the SAM process. Full-duplex VoIP was possible over =
slow speed=20
connections, although network operators and phone manufacturers were =
slow to=20
recognise the threat the iPhone presented. I spend time in New York, =
Philadelphia,=20
Phoenix, Baltimore, as well as here in Toronto. Blair adds whole UK to =
police=20
suspect list24x7 vehicle surveillance, and how road pricing helps it =
alongTories=20
attack ID card fingerprint plansReplace your broken biometric =
passport?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I got a rather amusing email I thought =
I'd share=20
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more=20
clos</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>


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Clicking button, take stepbystep process cd, search. Booty anna nicole =
smith, surfing tight body no or. Th jessica simpson in.
Concert cameron diaz justin.
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Questions about look redesign faq answers, shop.
Alicia keys sweating chloe, sevigny calista flockhart.
Companies keywords characters quotes bios plots, more tips. Keira =
knightley leaving gym panties hanging mariah carey loookin.

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Theaters coming soonthe list lena =
headeywild hogs.=20
Claude, vota blanc jacqueline, dobtcheff alfred yordanoff boucaron, =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Copy ugo, networks incall.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tons zits lots cellulite horseteeth =
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From danckofmayo@orangecountyhylaform.com Fri Feb 23 15:03:18 2007
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From:	"danckof mayo" <danckofmayo@orangecountyhylaform.com>
To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org
Subject: Jobs
Date:	Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:02:54 +0100
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Tons, zits lots cellulite, horseteeth crack pulling. Billed only pierre =
arditi paul blain, claude vota blanc.
Paparazzi photos email to bud im upload, stuff.
Catching, foorball wimp laura bush attempted murder weapon? Usaheight =
career startthe parent, trap aa ranking most. Rehablohan, parties being =
released, rehabreid?
Lohan falling of drunk short skirt pet.
Zipper down jennifer love hewitt sucking lollipop.
Has, pee really badly, see through keira.
Short skirt pet rat sweats outfit, nov the. Boardplot quotesplot eee =
amazoncom quotesfun linksbox.
Britney petting dog, without any makeup looking hottest christina. =
Beyonce seethrough view, monica bellucci alyssa milano anastacia!

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tons, zits lots cellulite, horseteeth =
crack=20
pulling. Billed only pierre arditi paul blain, claude vota =
blanc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Paparazzi photos email to bud im =
upload, stuff.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Catching, foorball wimp laura bush =
attempted murder=20
weapon? Usaheight career startthe parent, trap aa ranking most. =
Rehablohan,=20
parties being released, rehabreid?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lohan falling of drunk short skirt =
pet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Zipper down jennifer love hewitt =
sucking lollipop.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Has, pee really badly, see through =
keira.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Short skirt pet rat sweats outfit, nov =
the.=20
Boardplot quotesplot eee amazoncom quotesfun linksbox.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Britney petting dog, without any makeup =
looking=20
hottest christina. Beyonce seethrough view, monica bellucci alyssa =
milano=20
anastacia!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:000b01c75785$9af40a20$5cf6b554@companye07vvlu" =
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Dear all,

We have posted an new I-D: draft-xie-ccamp-lsp-dppm-00.txt.  Any comments for this are solicited! The following is the abstract of this I-D, and please refer the attachment for details.

Abstract

   Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) is one of the most
   promising candidate technologies for the future data transmission
   network.  The GMPLS has been developed to control and cooperate
   different kinds of network elements, such as conventional routers,
   switches, Dense Wavelength Division Multiplexing (DWDM) systems, Add-
   Drop Multiplexors (ADMs), photonic cross-connects (PXCs), optical
   cross-connects (OXCs), etc.  Dynamic provisioning ability of these
   physically diverse devices differs from each other drastically.  At
   the same time, the need for dynamically provisioned connections is
   increasing because optical networks are being deployed in metro area.
   As different applications have varied requirements in the
   provisioning performance of optical networks, it is imperative to
   define standardized metrics and procedures such that the performance
   of networks and application needs can be mapped to each other.

   This document provides a series of performance metrics to evaluate
   the dynamic LSP provisioning performance in GMPLS networks,
   specifically the dynamical LSP setup/release performance.  These
   metrics can depict the features of the GMPLS network in LSP dynamic
   provisioning.




Best regards,

Guowu Xie Shanghai Jiao Tong University
800 Dongchuan Road
Shanghai  200240 CN
Phone: +86 21 3420 4596
Email: blithe@sjtu.edu.cn



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ccamp                                                             G. Xie
Internet-Draft                                                    W. Sun
Intended status: Standards Track           Shanghai Jiao Tong University
Expires: August 26, 2007                                        G. Zhang
                                      China Academy of Telecommunication
                                                           Research,MII.
                                                                  J. Han
                                                                    IXIA
                                                                  X. Wei
                                                               Fiberhome
                                                                  J. Gao
                                                                  Huawei
                                                       February 22, 2007


Label Switched Path (LSP) Dynamical Provisioning Performance Metrics in
                       Generalized MPLS Networks
                    draft-xie-ccamp-lsp-dppm-00.txt

Status of this Memo

   By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any
   applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware
   have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes
   aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79.

   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
   Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that
   other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-
   Drafts.

   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
   and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
   time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
   material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."

   The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
   http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt.

   The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at
   http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.

   This Internet-Draft will expire on August 26, 2007.

Copyright Notice

   Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007).




Xie, et al.              Expires August 26, 2007                [Page 1]

Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


Abstract

   Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) is one of the most
   promising candidate technologies for the future data transmission
   network.  The GMPLS has been developed to control and cooperate
   different kinds of network elements, such as conventional routers,
   switches, Dense Wavelength Division Multiplexing (DWDM) systems, Add-
   Drop Multiplexors (ADMs), photonic cross-connects (PXCs), optical
   cross-connects (OXCs), etc.  Dynamic provisioning ability of these
   physically diverse devices differs from each other drastically.  At
   the same time, the need for dynamically provisioned connections is
   increasing because optical networks are being deployed in metro area.
   As different applications have varied requirements in the
   provisioning performance of optical networks, it is imperative to
   define standardized metrics and procedures such that the performance
   of networks and application needs can be mapped to each other.

   This document provides a series of performance metrics to evaluate
   the dynamic LSP provisioning performance in GMPLS networks,
   specifically the dynamical LSP setup/release performance.  These
   metrics can depict the features of the GMPLS network in LSP dynamic
   provisioning.





























Xie, et al.              Expires August 26, 2007                [Page 2]

Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


Table of Contents

   1.  Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  5
   2.  Conventions Used in This Document  . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  6
   3.  Overview of Performance Metrics  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  7
   4.  A Singleton Definition for Unidirectional LSP Setup Delay  . .  8
     4.1.  Motivation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  8
     4.2.  Metric Name  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  8
     4.3.  Metric Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  8
     4.4.  Metric Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  9
     4.5.  Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  9
     4.6.  Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  9
     4.7.  Methodologies  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
   5.  A Definition for Samples of Unidirectional LSP Setup Delay . . 11
     5.1.  Metric Name  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
     5.2.  Metric Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
     5.3.  Metric Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
     5.4.  Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
     5.5.  Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
     5.6.  Methodologies  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
   6.  A Singleton Definition for Bidirectional LSP Setup Delay . . . 13
     6.1.  Motivation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13
     6.2.  Metric Name  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
     6.3.  Metric Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
     6.4.  Metric Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
     6.5.  Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
     6.6.  Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
     6.7.  Methodologies  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
   7.  A Definition for Samples of Bidirectional LSP Setup Delay  . . 17
     7.1.  Metric Name  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17
     7.2.  Metric Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17
     7.3.  Metric Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17
     7.4.  Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17
     7.5.  Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18
     7.6.  Methodologies  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18
   8.  A Singleton Definition for LSP Graceful Release Delay  . . . . 19
     8.1.  Motivation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
     8.2.  Metric Name  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
     8.3.  Metric Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
     8.4.  Metric Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
     8.5.  Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
     8.6.  Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20
     8.7.  Methodologies  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21
   9.  A Definition for Samples of LSP Graceful Release Delay . . . . 23
     9.1.  Metric Name  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23
     9.2.  Metric Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23
     9.3.  Metric Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23
     9.4.  Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23



Xie, et al.              Expires August 26, 2007                [Page 3]

Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


     9.5.  Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24
     9.6.  Methodologies  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24
   10. Some Statistics Definitions for Metrics to Report  . . . . . . 25
     10.1. The Minimum of Metric  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25
     10.2. The Median of Metric . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25
     10.3. The percentile of Metric . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25
     10.4. The failure probability  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25
   11. Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26
   12. Security Considerations  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27
   13. Acknowledgements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28
   14. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29
   Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30
   Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . 32






































Xie, et al.              Expires August 26, 2007                [Page 4]

Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


1.  Introduction

   Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) is one of the most
   promising candidate technologies for the future data transmission
   network.  The GMPLS has been developed to control and cooperate
   different kinds of network elements, such as conventional routers,
   switches, Dense Wavelength Division Multiplexing (DWDM) systems, Add-
   Drop Multiplexors (ADMs), photonic cross-connects (PXCs), optical
   cross-connects (OXCs), etc.  Dynamic provisioning ability of these
   physically diverse devices differs from each other drastically.

   As more and more applications are seeking to use GMPLS networks as
   their underlying transport network, and increasingly in a dynamic
   way, the need is growing for measuring and characterizing the
   performance of LSP provisioning in GMPLS networks, such that
   requirement from applications and the provisioning capability of the
   network can be mapped to each other.  This draft intends to define
   performance metrics that can be used to depict the dynamic LSP
   provisioning performance of GMPLS networks.
































Xie, et al.              Expires August 26, 2007                [Page 5]

Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


2.  Conventions Used in This Document

   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this
   document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119].














































Xie, et al.              Expires August 26, 2007                [Page 6]

Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


3.  Overview of Performance Metrics

   In this memo, to depict the dynamic LSP provisioning performance of a
   GMPLS network, we define 3 performance metrics: unidirectional LSP
   setup delay, bidirectional LSP setup delay, and LSP graceful release
   delay.  The latency of the LSP setup/release signal is similar to the
   Round-trip Delay in IP networks.  So we refer the structures and
   notions introduced and discussed in the IPPM Framework document,
   [RFC2330] [RFC2679] [RFC2681].  The reader is assumed to be familiar
   with the notions in those documents.









































Xie, et al.              Expires August 26, 2007                [Page 7]

Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


4.  A Singleton Definition for Unidirectional LSP Setup Delay

   This part defines a metric for unidirectional Label Switched Path
   setup delay across a GMPLS network.

4.1.  Motivation

   Unidirectional Label Switched Path setup delay is useful for several
   reasons:

   o  LSP setup delay is an important metric that depicts the
      provisioning performance of a GMPLS network.  Longer LSP setup
      delay will incur higher overhead for the requesting application,
      especially when the LSP duration is comparable to the LSP setup
      delay.

   o  The minimum value of this metric provides an indication of the
      delay that will likely be experienced when the LSP traversed the
      shortest route at the lightest load in the control plane.  As the
      delay itself consists of several components, such as link
      propagation delay and nodal processing delay, this metric also
      reflects the status of control plane.  For example, for LSPs
      traversing the same route, longer setup delays may suggest
      congestion in the control channel or high control element load.
      For this reason, this metric is useful for testing and diagnostic
      purposes.

   o  LSP setup delay variance has different impact on to applications.
      Erratic variation in LSP setup delay makes it difficult to support
      applications that has stringent setup delay requirement.

   The measurement of unidirectional LSP setup delay instead of
   bidirectional LSP setup delay is motivated by the following factors:

   o  Some applications may only use unidirectional LSPs rather than
      bidirectional ones.  For example, content delivery services in
      multicast method (IPTV) only use unidirectional LSPs.

4.2.  Metric Name

   Unidirectional LSP setup delay

4.3.  Metric Parameters

   o  ID0, the ingress LSR ID

   o  ID1, the egress LSR ID




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   o  T, a time

4.4.  Metric Units

   The value of unidirectional LSP setup delay is either a real number,
   or an undefined (informally, infinite) number of seconds.

4.5.  Definition

   The unidirectional LSP setup delay from the ingress node to the
   egress node [RFC3945] at T is dT means that ingress node sent the
   first bit of a PATH message packet to egress node at wire-time T, and
   that the ingress node received the last bit of responding RESV
   message packet from egress node at wire-time T+dT in the
   unidirectional LSP setup case.

   The unidirectional LSP setup delay from the ingress node to the
   egress node at T is undefined (informally, infinite), means that
   ingress node sent the first bit of PATH message packet to egress node
   at wire-time T and that ingress node did not receive the
   corresponding RESV message within a reasonable period of time.

4.6.  Discussion

   The following issues are likely to come up in practice:

   o  The accuracy of unidirectional LSP setup delay at time T depends
      on the clock resolution in the ingress node; but synchronization
      between the ingress node and egress node is not required since
      unidirectional LSP setup uses two-way signaling

   o  A given methodology will have to include a way to determine
      whether a latency value is infinite or whether it is merely very
      large.  Simple upper bounds could be used.  But the GMPLS network
      accommodates many kinds of devices.  For example, some photonic
      cross-connects (PXCs) have to move the micro mirrors.  This
      physical motion may take several milliseconds.  But the common
      electronic switches finish the nodal process within several
      microseconds.  So the unidirectional LSP setup delay varies
      drastically from a network to another.  In practice, the upper
      bound should be chose carefully.

   o  If ingress node sent out the PATH message to set up LSP, but never
      receive corresponding RESV message, unidirectional LSP setup delay
      is deemed to be infinite.

   o  If ingress node sent out the PATH message to set up LSP but
      receive PathErr message, unidirectional LSP setup delay is also



Xie, et al.              Expires August 26, 2007                [Page 9]

Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


      deemed to be infinite.  There are many possible reasons for this
      case.  For example, the PATH message has invalid parameters or the
      network has not enough resource to set up the requested LSP, etc.

4.7.  Methodologies

   Generally the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  Make sure that the network has enough resource to set up the
      requested LSP.

   o  At the ingress node, form the PATH message according to the LSP
      requirements.  A timestamp (T1) may be stored locally in the
      ingress node when the PATH message packet is sent towards the
      egress node.

   o  If the corresponding RESV message arrives within a reasonable
      period of time, take the timestamp (T2) as soon as possible upon
      the receipt of the message.  By subtracting the two timestamps, an
      estimate of unidirectional LSP setup delay (T2 -T1) can be
      computed.

   o  If the corresponding RESV message fails to arrive within a
      reasonable period of time, the unidirectional LSP setup delay is
      deemed to be undefined (informally, infinite).  Note that the
      'reasonable' threshold of is a parameter of the methodology.

   o  If the corresponding response message is PathErr, the
      unidirectional LSP setup delay is deemed to be undefined
      (informally, infinite).





















Xie, et al.              Expires August 26, 2007               [Page 10]

Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


5.  A Definition for Samples of Unidirectional LSP Setup Delay

   In the previous part, we define the singleton metric of
   unidirectional LSP setup delay.  Now we define how to get one
   particular sample of unidirectional LSP setup delay.  Sampling is to
   select a particular potion of singleton values of the given
   parameters.  Like the [RFC2330], we use Poisson sampling as an
   example.

5.1.  Metric Name

   Unidirectional LSP setup delay sample

5.2.  Metric Parameters

   o  ID0, the ingress LSR ID

   o  ID1, the egress LSR ID

   o  T0, a time

   o  Tf, a time

   o  Lambda, a rate in reciprocal seconds

   o  Td, the 'reasonable' threshold

5.3.  Metric Units

   A sequence of pairs; the elements of each pair are:

   o  T, a time, and

   o  dT, either a real number or an undefined number of seconds.

   The values of T in the sequence are monotonically increasing.  Note
   that T would be a valid parameter to unidirectional LSP setup delay
   sample, and that dT would be a valid value of unidirectional LSP
   setup delay.

5.4.  Definition

   Given T0, Tf, and lambda, we compute a pseudo-random Poisson process
   beginning at or before T0, with average arrival rate lambda, and
   ending at or after Tf.  Those time values greater than or equal to T0
   and less than or equal to Tf are then selected.  At each of the times
   in this process, we obtain the value of unidirectional LSP setup
   delay sample at this time.  The value of the sample is the sequence



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   made up of the resulting <time, unidirectional LSP setup delay>
   pairs.  If there are no such pairs, the sequence is of length zero
   and the sample is said to be empty.

5.5.  Discussion

   The parameter lambda should be carefully chosen.  If the rate is too
   large, too frequent LSP setup/release procedure results in high
   overhead in the control plane.  In turn, the high overhead will
   increase unidirectional LSP setup delay.  On the other hand if the
   rate is too small, the sample could not completely reflect the
   dynamic provisioning performance of the GMPLS network.  The
   appropriate lambda value depends on the given network.

5.6.  Methodologies

   Generally the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  The selection of specific times, using the specified Poisson
      arrival process, and

   o  Set up the LSP as the methodology for the singleton unidirectional
      LSP setup delay, and obtain the value of unidirectional LSP setup
      delay

   o  Release the LSP, and wait for the next Poisson arrival process

   Note that: it is possible that before the previous LSP release
   procedure completes, the next Poisson arrival process has arrived and
   the LSP setup procedure has been initiated.  If there is resource
   contention between the two LSPs, the LSP setup may fail.




















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6.  A Singleton Definition for Bidirectional LSP Setup Delay

   Bidirectional optical LSPs (or lightpaths) are seen as a requirement
   for most optical networking service.  GMPLS allows establishment of
   bi-directional symmetric LSPs (not of asymmetric LSPs).  A symmetric
   bidirectional LSP has the same traffic engineering requirements
   including fate sharing, protection and restoration, LSRs, and
   resource requirements (e.g., delay and delay variance) in either
   direction.

   Compared with the approach of establishing a bidirectional LSP using
   two unidirectional LSP, the bidirectional LSP has the following
   advantages:

   o  Reduces the setup delay to one ingress-egress round trip time plus
      processing time in the nodes en-route;

   o  Reduces the signal overhead in the control plane;

   o  Allows suggesting a label by an upstream node to reduce the setup
      delay.

   This part defines a metric for bidirectional LSP setup delay across a
   GMPLS network.

6.1.  Motivation

   Bidirectional Label Switched Path setup delay is useful for several
   reasons:

   o  LSP setup delay is an important metric that depicts the
      provisioning performance of a GMPLS network.  Longer LSP setup
      delay will incur higher overhead for the requesting application,
      especially when the LSP duration is comparable to the LSP setup
      delay.  Thus, measuring the setup delay is important for
      applications scheduling.

   o  The minimum value of this metric provides an indication of the
      delay that will likely be experienced when the LSP traversed the
      shortest route at the lightest load in the control plane.  As the
      delay itself consists of several components, such as link
      propagation delay and nodal processing delay, this metric also
      reflects the status of control plane.  For example, for LSPs
      traversing the same route, longer setup delays may suggest
      congestion in the control channel or high control element load.
      For this reason, this metric is useful for testing and diagnostic
      purposes.




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   o  LSP setup delay variance has different impact on to applications.
      Erratic variation in LSP setup delay makes it difficult to support
      applications that has stringent setup delay requirement.

   The measurement of bidirectional LSP setup delay instead of
   unidirectional LSP setup delay is motivated by the following factors:

   o  Bidirectional LSPs are seen as a requirement for many GMPLS
      network while the LSPs are unidirectional in nature in the MPLS
      network.  For most applications, the communication is
      bidirectional.  So bidirectional LSP delay is necessary and more
      reasonable than unidirectional LSP delay.

6.2.  Metric Name

   Bidirectional LSP setup delay

6.3.  Metric Parameters

   o  ID0, the ingress LSR ID

   o  ID1, the egress LSR ID

   o  T, a time

6.4.  Metric Units

   The value of bidirectional LSP setup delay is either a real number,
   or an undefined (informally, infinite) number of seconds.

6.5.  Definition

   For a real number dT, the bidirectional LSP setup delay from ingress
   node to egress node at T is dT, means that ingress node sent out the
   first bit of a PATH message including an Upstream Label [RFC3473]
   heading for egress node at wire-time T, egress node received that
   packet, then immediately sent a RESV message packet back to ingress
   node, and that ingress node received the last bit of that packet at
   wire-time T+dT.

   The bidirectional LSP setup delay from ingress node to egress node at
   T is undefined (informally, infinite), means that ingress node sent
   the first bit of PATH message to egress node at wire-time T and that
   (either egress node did not receive the packet, egress node did not
   send corresponding RESV message packet in response, or) ingress node
   did not receive that response packet.





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6.6.  Discussion

   The following issues are likely to come up in practice:

   o  The accuracy of bidirectional LSP setup delay depends on the clock
      resolution in the ingress node; but synchronization between the
      ingress node and egress node is not required since bidirectional
      LSP setup uses two-way signaling.

   o  A given methodology will have to include a way to determine
      whether a latency value is infinite or whether it is merely very
      large.  Simple upper bounds could be used.  But the GMPLS network
      accommodates many kinds of devices.  For example, some photonic
      cross-connects (PXCs) have to move the micro mirrors.  This
      physical motion may take several milliseconds.  But the common
      electronic switches finish the nodal process within several
      microseconds.  So the bidirectional LSP setup delay varies
      drastically from a network to another.  In the process of
      bidirectional LSP setup, if the downstream node overrides the
      label suggested by the upstream node, the setup delay will also
      increase obviously.  Thus, in practice, the upper bound should be
      chosen carefully.

   o  If the ingress node sent out the PATH message to set up the LSP,
      but never receive the corresponding RESV message, bidirectional
      LSP setup delay is deemed to be infinite.

   o  If the ingress node sent out the PATH message to set up the LSP,
      but receive PathErr message, bidirectional LSP setup delay is also
      deemed to be infinite.  There are many possible reasons for this
      case.  For example, the PATH message has invalid parameters or the
      network has not enough resource to set up the requested LSP.

6.7.  Methodologies

   Generally the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  Make sure that the network has enough resource to set up the
      requested LSP.

   o  At the ingress node, form the PATH message (including the Upstream
      Label or suggested label) according to the LSP requirements.  A
      timestamp (T1) may be stored locally in the ingress node when the
      PATH message packet is sent towards the egress node.

   o  If the corresponding RESV message arrives within a reasonable
      period of time, take the final timestamp (T2) as soon as possible
      upon the receipt of the message.  By subtracting the two



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      timestamps, an estimate of bidirectional LSP setup delay (T2 -T1)
      can be computed.

   o  If the corresponding RESV message fails to arrive within a
      reasonable period of time, the bidirectional LSP setup delay is
      deemed to be undefined (informally, infinite).  Note that the
      'reasonable' threshold is a parameter of the methodology.

   o  If the corresponding response message is PathErr, the
      bidirectional LSP setup delay is deemed to be undefined
      (informally, infinite).








































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7.  A Definition for Samples of Bidirectional LSP Setup Delay

   In the previous part, we define the singleton metric of bidirectional
   LSP setup delay.  Now we define how to get one particular sample of
   bidirectional LSP setup delay.  We also use Poisson sampling as an
   example.

7.1.  Metric Name

   Bidirectional LSP setup delay sample

7.2.  Metric Parameters

   o  ID0, the ingress LSR ID

   o  ID1, the egress LSR ID

   o  T0, a time

   o  Tf, a time

   o  Lambda, a rate in reciprocal seconds

   o  Td, the 'reasonable' threshold

7.3.  Metric Units

   A sequence of pairs; the elements of each pair are:

   o  T, a time, and

   o  dT, either a real number or an undefined number of seconds.

   The values of T in the sequence are monotonical increasing.  Note
   that T would be a valid parameter to bidirectional LSP setup delay
   sample, and that dT would be a valid value of bidirectional LSP setup
   delay.

7.4.  Definition

   Given T0, Tf, and lambda, we compute a pseudo-random Poisson process
   beginning at or before T0, with average arrival rate lambda, and
   ending at or after Tf.  Those time values greater than or equal to T0
   and less than or equal to Tf are then selected.  At each of the times
   in this process, we obtain the value of unidirectional LSP setup
   delay sample at this time.  The value of the sample is the sequence
   made up of the resulting <time, bidirectional LSP setup delay> pairs.
   If there are no such pairs, the sequence is of length zero and the



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   sample is said to be empty.

7.5.  Discussion

   The parameter lambda should be carefully chosen.  If the rate is too
   large, too frequent LSP setup/release procedure results in high load
   in the control plane, which will in turn increase unidirectional LSP
   setup delay.  On the other hand if the rate is too small, the sample
   could not completely reflect the dynamic provisioning performance of
   the GMPLS network.  The appropriate lambda value depends on the given
   network.

7.6.  Methodologies

   Generally the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  Setup the LSP to be deleted

   o  The selection of specific times, using the specified Poisson
      arrival process, and

   o  Release the LSP as the methodology for the singleton LSP graceful
      release delay, and obtain the value of LSP graceful release delay

   o  Setup the LSP, and restart the Poisson arrival process, wait for
      the next Poisson arrival process

   Note that: it is possible that before the previous LSP release
   procedure completes, the next Poisson arrival process has arrived and
   the LSP setup procedure has been initiated.  If there is resource
   contention between these two LSPs, the LSP setup may fail.




















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8.  A Singleton Definition for LSP Graceful Release Delay

   There are two different kinds of LSP release mechanisms in the GMPLS
   network: graceful release and forceful release.  As a matter of fact,
   the forceful release employs PathErr message to tear down the LSP.
   Memo in current version has not taken forceful LSP release procedure
   into account.

8.1.  Motivation

   LSP graceful release delay is useful for several reasons:

   o  The LSP graceful release delay is part of the total cost of
      dynamic LSP provisioning.  For some short duration applications,
      the LSP tear down time can not be ignored

   o  The LSP graceful release procedure is more reasonable for GMPLS
      network, particularly the optical networks.  Since it doesn't
      trigger restoration/protection, it is "alarm-free connection
      deletion" in [RFC4208].

8.2.  Metric Name

   LSP graceful release delay

8.3.  Metric Parameters

   o  ID0, the ingress LSR ID

   o  ID1, the egress LSR ID

   o  T, a time

8.4.  Metric Units

   The value of LSP graceful release delay is either a real number, or
   an undefined (informally, infinite) number of seconds.

8.5.  Definition

   There are two different LSP graceful release procedures, one is
   initiated by the ingress node, and another is initiated by egress
   node.  The two procedures are depicted in the [RFC3473].  We define
   the graceful LSP release delay for these two procedures separately.

   For a real number dT, the LSP graceful release delay from ingress
   node to egress node at T is dT, means that ingress node sent the
   first bit of a PATH message including Admin Status Object with



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   setting the Reflect (R) and Delete (D) bits to egress node at wire-
   time T, that egress node received that packet, then immediately sent
   a RESV message including Admin Status Object with the Delete (D) bit
   set back to ingress node.  The ingress node sends out PathTear
   downstream to remove the LSP, and egress node received the last bit
   of PathTear packet at wire-time T+dT.

   The LSP graceful release delay from ingress node to egress node at T
   is undefined (informally, infinite), means that ingress node sent the
   first bit of PATH message to egress node at wire-time T and that
   (either egress node did not receive the PATH packet, egress node did
   not send corresponding RESV message packet in response, ingress node
   did not receive that RESV packet, or) the egress did not receive the
   PathTear.

   The LSP graceful release delay from egress node to ingress node at T
   is dT, means that egress node sent the first bit of a RESV message
   including Admin Status Object with setting the Reflect (R) and Delete
   (D) bits to ingress node at wire-time T, that ingress node received
   the packet, then immediately sent a PathTear message downstream to
   egress node.  The ingress node sends out PathTear downstream to
   remove the LSP, and egress node received the last bit of PathTear
   packet at wire-time T+dT.

   The LSP graceful release delay from egress node to ingress node at T
   is undefined (informally, infinite), means that egress node sent the
   first bit of RESV message including Admin Status Object with setting
   the Reflect (R) and Delete (D) bits to ingress node at wire-time T
   and that (either ingress node did not receive the RESV packet,
   ingress node did not send PathTear message packet in response or) the
   egress did not receive the PathTear.

8.6.  Discussion

   The following issues are likely to come up in practice:

   o  In the first (second) circumstance, the accuracy of LSP graceful
      release delay at time T depends on the clock resolution in the
      ingress (egress) node.  In the first circumstance, synchronization
      between the ingress node and egress node is required; but not in
      the second circumstance;

   o  A given methodology has to include a way to determine whether a
      latency value is infinite or whether it is merely very large.
      Simple upper bounds could be used.  But the upper bound should be
      chosen carefully in practice;





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   o  In the first circumstance, if ingress node sent out PATH message
      including Admin Status Object with the Reflect (R) and Delete (D)
      bits set to initiate LSP graceful release, but never receive
      corresponding RESV message, LSP graceful release delay is deemed
      to be infinite.  In the second circumstance, if egress node sent
      out RESV message including Admin Status Object with the Reflect
      (R) and Delete (D) bits set to initiate LSP graceful release, but
      never receive corresponding PathTear message, LSP graceful release
      delay is deemed to be infinite;

   o  It is possible that some node(s) along an LSP will not support the
      Admin Status Object.  In the case of a non-supporting intermediate
      node(s), the object will pass through the node(s) unmodified and
      normal processing can continue.  In the case of a non-supporting
      ingress/egress node, the Admin Status Object will not be reflected
      back in the RESV Message.  To support the case of a non-supporting
      ingress/egress node, the ingress (egress in the second
      circumstance) SHOULD only wait a configurable period of time for
      the updated Admin Status Object in a RESV message.  Once the
      period of time has elapsed, the ingress (egress in the second
      circumstance) node sends out a PathTear message to delete LSP.

8.7.  Methodologies

   In the first circumstance, the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  Make sure the LSP to be deleted is set up;

   o  At the egress node, form the RESV message including Admin Status
      Object with the Reflect (R) and Delete (D) bits set.  A timestamp
      (T1) may be stored locally in the egress node when the PATH
      message packet is sent towards the ingress node;

   o  Intermediate nodes process the Admin Status Object as described in
      [RFC2330], and forward the PATH message to the ingress node;

   o  Upon receiving the Admin Status Object with the Reflect (R) and
      Delete (D) bits set in the RESV message, the ingress node sends a
      PathTear message downstream to remove the LSP;

   o  When the egress node receive the Admin Status Object with the
      Delete (D) bit set in the RESV message, the ingress node sends a
      PathTear message to remove the LSP;

   o  When the egress node receives the PathTear message, take a
      timestamp (T2) as soon as possible.  The LSP graceful release
      delay (T2-T1) is this timestamp minus the initial one.




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   In the second circumstance, the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  Make sure the LSP to be deleted is set up;

   o  At the initiator node (egress node in this case), form the RESV
      message including Admin Status Object with the Reflect (R) and
      Delete (D) bits set.  A timestamp may be stored locally in the
      initiator node when the PATH message packet is sent towards the
      terminator node;

   o  Intermediate nodes process the Admin Status Object as described in
      [RFC2330], and forward the PATH message to the terminator node;

   o  Upon receiving the Admin Status Object with the Reflect (R) and
      Delete (D) bits set in the RESV message, the terminator node sends
      a PathTear message downstream to remove the LSP;

   o  When the initiator node receives the PathTear message, take a
      timestamp as soon as possible.  The LSP graceful release delay is
      this timestamp minus the initial one.































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9.  A Definition for Samples of LSP Graceful Release Delay

   In the previous part, we define the singleton metric of LSP graceful
   release delay.  Now we define how to get one particular sample of LSP
   graceful release delay.  We also use Poisson sampling as an example.

9.1.  Metric Name

   LSP graceful release delay sample

9.2.  Metric Parameters

   o  ID0, the ingress LSR ID

   o  ID1, the egress LSR ID

   o  T0, a time

   o  Tf, a time

   o  Lambda, a rate in reciprocal seconds

   o  Td, the 'reasonable' threshold

9.3.  Metric Units

   A sequence of pairs; the elements of each pair are:

   o  T, a time, and

   o  dT, either a real number or an undefined number of seconds.

   The values of T in the sequence are monotonical increasing.  Note
   that T would be a valid parameter to LSP graceful release delay
   sample and that dT would be a valid value of LSP graceful release
   delay.

9.4.  Definition

   Given T0, Tf, and lambda, we compute a pseudo-random Poisson process
   beginning at or before T0, with average arrival rate lambda, and
   ending at or after Tf.  Those time values greater than or equal to T0
   and less than or equal to Tf are then selected.  At each of the times
   in this process, we obtain the value of LSP graceful release delay
   sample at this time.  The value of the sample is the sequence made up
   of the resulting <time, LSP graceful release delay> pairs.  If there
   are no such pairs, the sequence is of length zero and the sample is
   said to be empty.



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9.5.  Discussion

   The parameter lambda should be carefully chosen.  If the rate is too
   large, too frequent LSP setup/release procedure results in high
   overhead in the control plane.  In turn, the high overhead will
   increase unidirectional LSP setup delay.  On the other hand if the
   rate is too small, the sample could not completely reflect the
   dynamic provisioning performance of the GMPLS network.  The
   appropriate lambda value depends on the given network.

9.6.  Methodologies

   Generally the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  Setup the LSP to be deleted

   o  The selection of specific times, using the specified Poisson
      arrival process, and

   o  Release the LSP as the methodology for the singleton LSP graceful
      release delay, and obtain the value of LSP graceful release delay

   o  Setup the LSP, and restart the Poisson arrival process, wait for
      the next Poisson arrival process



























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10.  Some Statistics Definitions for Metrics to Report

   Given the samples of the performance metric, we now offer several
   statistics of these samples to report.  From these statistics, we can
   draw some useful conclusions of a GMPLS network.  The value of these
   metrics is either a real number, or an undefined (informally,
   infinite) number of seconds.  In the following discussion, we only
   consider the finite values.

10.1.  The Minimum of Metric

   The minimum of metric is the minimum of all the dT values in the
   sample.  In computing this, undefined values are treated as
   infinitely large.  Note that this means that the minimum could thus
   be undefined (informally, infinite) if all the dT values are
   undefined.  In addition, the metric minimum is undefined if the
   sample is empty.

10.2.  The Median of Metric

   Metric median is the median of the dT values in the given sample.  In
   computing the median, the undefined values are not counted in.

10.3.  The percentile of Metric

   Given a metric and a percent X between 0% and 100%, the Xth
   percentile of all the dT values in the sample.  In addition, the
   unidirectional LSP setup delay percentile is undefined if the sample
   is empty.

   Example: suppose we take a sample and the results are: Stream1 = <
   <T1, 100 msec>, <T2, 110 msec>, <T3, undefined>, <T4, 90 msec>, <T5,
   500 msec> >

   Then the 50th percentile would be 110 msec, since 90 msec and 100
   msec are smaller, and 110 and 500 msec are larger (undefined values
   are not counted in).

10.4.  The failure probability

   In the process of LSP setup/release, it may fail for some reason.
   The failure probability is the ratio of the failure times to the
   total times.








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11.  Discussion

   It is worthwhile to point out that:

   o  The unidirectional/bidirectional LSP setup delay is one ingress-
      egress round trip time plus processing time.  But in the draft,
      unidirectional/bidirectional LSP setup delay has not taken the
      processing time in the end nodes (ingress or/and egress) into
      account.  The timestamp T2 is taken after the endpoint node
      receives it.  Actually, the last node has to take some time to
      process local procedure.  Similarly, in the LSP graceful release
      delay, the memo has not considered the processing time in the
      endpoint node.

   o  All these metrics are defined from the point of control plane's
      view.  In fact, the control plane and data plane are not always
      synchronized.  In some cases, the LSPs have been set up in the
      control plane.  But the data can not be forwarded immediately.
      The unidirectional/bidirectional LSP setup delay in the data plane
      is longer than in the control plane.































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12.  Security Considerations

   The security considerations pertaining to the original RSVP protocol
   [RFC2205] and its TE extensions [RFC3209] remain relevant.















































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13.  Acknowledgements

   This document contains ideas as well as text that have appeared in
   existing IETF documents.  The authors wish to thank G. Almes, S.
   Kalidindi and M. Zekauskas.  We also wish to thank Weisheng Hu,
   Yaohui Jin and Wei Guo in the state key laboratory of advanced
   optical communication systems and networks for the valuable comments.
   We also wish to thank the support from NSFC and 863 program of China.











































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14.  Normative References

   [RFC2119]  Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
              Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.

   [RFC2205]  Braden, B., Zhang, L., Berson, S., Herzog, S., and S.
              Jamin, "Resource ReSerVation Protocol (RSVP) -- Version 1
              Functional Specification", RFC 2205, September 1997.

   [RFC2330]  Paxson, V., Almes, G., Mahdavi, J., and M. Mathis,
              "Framework for IP Performance Metrics", RFC 2330,
              May 1998.

   [RFC2679]  Almes, G., Kalidindi, S., and M. Zekauskas, "A One-way
              Delay Metric for IPPM", RFC 2679, September 1999.

   [RFC2681]  Almes, G., Kalidindi, S., and M. Zekauskas, "A Round-trip
              Delay Metric for IPPM", RFC 2681, September 1999.

   [RFC3209]  Awduche, D., Berger, L., Gan, D., Li, T., Srinivasan, V.,
              and G. Swallow, "RSVP-TE: Extensions to RSVP for LSP
              Tunnels", RFC 3209, December 2001.

   [RFC3473]  Berger, L., "Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching
              (GMPLS) Signaling Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic
              Engineering (RSVP-TE) Extensions", RFC 3473, January 2003.

   [RFC3945]  Mannie, E., "Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching
              (GMPLS) Architecture", RFC 3945, October 2004.

   [RFC4208]  Swallow, G., Drake, J., Ishimatsu, H., and Y. Rekhter,
              "Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) User-
              Network Interface (UNI): Resource ReserVation Protocol-
              Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Support for the Overlay
              Model", RFC 4208, October 2005.
















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Authors' Addresses

   Guowu Xie
   Shanghai Jiao Tong University
   800 Dongchuan Road
   Shanghai  200240
   CN

   Phone: +86 21 3420 4596
   Email: blithe@sjtu.edu.cn


   Weiqiang Sun
   Shanghai Jiao Tong University
   800 Dongchuan Road
   Shanghai  200240
   CN

   Phone: +86 21 3420 5359
   Email: sunwq@sjtu.edu.cn


   Guoying Zhang
   China Academy of Telecommunication Research,MII.
   Beijing  200240
   CN

   Phone: +86 1068094272
   Email: zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn


   Jianghui Han
   IXIA
   Oriental Kenzo Plaza 8M,48 Dongzhimen Wai Street,Dongcheng District
   Beijing  200240
   CN

   Phone: +86 13801156004
   Email: JHan@ixiacom.com












Xie, et al.              Expires August 26, 2007               [Page 30]

Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


   Xueqing Wei
   Fiberhome Telecommunicaiton Technology Co.,Ltd.
   Wuhan
   CN

   Phone: +86 13871127882
   Email: xqwei@fiberhome.com.cn


   Jianhua Gao
   Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.
   CN

   Phone: +86 755 28973237
   Email: gjhhit@huawei.com




































Xie, et al.              Expires August 26, 2007               [Page 31]

Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


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Xie, et al.              Expires August 26, 2007               [Page 32]


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All aspects move whether listing present.=0D
Satisfy gri recently, became licensed auctioneer director auction?=0D
Inthe eligible renewable dates saturday june, through.=0D
Listing present, home helping you.=0D
Trustees century bob capes realtors offering premium.=0D
From who be starting their senior.=0D
Invite high, juniors, from, who.=0D
Former usc interact employees college.=0D
Operates executives make decisions find.=0D
All aspects move whether listing present.=0D
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Decisions find, out what, types jobs are talk with.=0D
Courses satisfy gri recently became licensed.=0D
Columbia sc additional please contact us.=0D
Stress emotional turmoil relocation process she?=0D
Current faculty, thanks sponsor is no, cost student have.=0D
Purchase new mortgage certified, realtor.=0D
At moore summer, camp career darla.=0D
High, juniors from who be starting their senior year.=0D
Winning team map recomend friend privacy.=0D
Decisions find, out what, types jobs are talk with.=0D
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<DIV>Stress emotional turmoil relocation process she?</DIV>
<DIV>Current faculty, thanks sponsor is no, cost student have.</DIV>
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From xgb@i-bazar.net Sat Feb 24 06:59:45 2007
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From: "Jem N. Covington" <xgb@i-bazar.net>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: I was looking for a way to dump my girlfriend.
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:52:02 +0200
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In a statement, Ms Hewitt said: "I shall introduce a Health Bill to the =
House of Commons.
All you have to do to get diagnosed with cancer is make sure your immune =
system is sufficiently suppressed so that your body can't take care of =
the cancerous cells on a regular basis.
It also seems to be taking the same political strategy of denial by =
saying that any food can be part of a healthy diet. "See more articles =
and news on smokersTrack news on cancer at DiseaseWatch. See more =
articles and news on smokingTrack news on natural health at =
HealthFactor.
They are deceptively created and marketed to virtually the entire =
population, even while they are harming the very people they claim to be =
helping. "To fail, the index must be less than 65, meaning that the =
smoker's sperm had less than 65 percent of the fertilizing capacity =
found in the donor," Burkman said. But prescription drugs are no =
different.
In time, physicians will look upon prescription drugs in much the same =
way tobacco products are viewed today.
Half of the women had a history of breast cancer and half served as a =
healthy control, or comparison, group. There are other ingredients that =
are suspected of causing cancer. And they are causing just as much death =
and suffering as tobacco products.
This campaign is designed to show that it's often the places we feel =
safest that put us at the greatest risk, such as relaxing at home in =
front of the television. Kollins, an assistant professor of psychiatry =
at Duke University Medical Center. Looking at why physical exercise =
makes individuals so much healthier gives us an interesting perspective =
on how the human body really works.
There are a lot of misleading metaphors in modern medicine that compare =
the human body to an automobile. The American Cancer Society applauded =
the research.
It is also joining the British Medical Association and the Royal College =
of Ophthalmologists in calling for a ban on smoking in all enclosed =
public places and workplaces across the UK. The society says most =
Chicagoans support a proposal to ban smoking in bars, restaurants and =
all indoor public places.
That means chowing down on white bread, sweetened breakfast cereals, =
white fluffy pancakes, candy bars, granola bars, cookies, crackers and =
sweets of all kinds.
I love what you have to say in every area. The Government has proposed =
banning smoking in the majority of workplaces, with exemptions for pubs =
not serving food and private members' clubs.
Smokers who want to quit can also find details of their local NHS Stop =
Smoking Service by visiting www.
In addition, 72 percent of women and 63 percent of men smoked "light" =
cigarettes, thinking this would lower their intake of nicotine and thus =
lower their risk of cancer.
Two out of three GPs want greater public awareness of the issue. Without =
a doubt, tobacco companies have no place in a civilized society. "See =
more articles and news on smokingTrack news on doctors at ModernDoctor. =
Researchers say preteens may believe that being the first in their class =
to experiment with smoking will keep them popular. I am so sated with =
knowledge at the moment, I am euphoric. And they are causing just as =
much death and suffering as tobacco products. "In this new study, we =
examined whether sperm from chronic tobacco smokers are defective in =
binding to the zona, the cover surrounding an egg," said Burkman. "This =
is the first real evidence that air pollution can damage sperm DNA, but =
it reassuring that the effect is reversible.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In a statement, Ms Hewitt said: "I =
shall introduce=20
a Health Bill to the House of Commons.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All you have to do to get diagnosed =
with cancer is=20
make sure your immune system is sufficiently suppressed so that your =
body can't take=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It also seems to be taking the same =
political=20
strategy of denial by saying that any food can be part of a healthy =
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more articles=20
and news on smokingTrack news on natural health at =
HealthFactor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>They are deceptively created and =
marketed to=20
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people they=20
claim to be helping. "To fail, the index must be less than 65, meaning =
that the=20
smoker's sperm had less than 65 percent of the fertilizing capacity =
found in the=20
donor," Burkman said. But prescription drugs are no =
different.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In time, physicians will look upon =
prescription=20
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today.</FONT></DIV>
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death and suffering as tobacco products.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This campaign is designed to show that =
it's often=20
the places we feel safest that put us at the greatest risk, such as =
relaxing at home=20
in front of the television. Kollins, an assistant professor of =
psychiatry at Duke=20
University Medical Center. Looking at why physical exercise makes =
individuals so=20
much healthier gives us an interesting perspective on how the human body =
really=20
works.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There are a lot of misleading metaphors =
in modern=20
medicine that compare the human body to an automobile. The American =
Cancer Society=20
applauded the research.</FONT></DIV>
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Association=20
and the Royal College of Ophthalmologists in calling for a ban on =
smoking in all=20
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most=20
Chicagoans support a proposal to ban smoking in bars, restaurants and =
all indoor=20
public places.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That means chowing down on white bread, =
sweetened=20
breakfast cereals, white fluffy pancakes, candy bars, granola bars, =
cookies,=20
crackers and sweets of all kinds.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I love what you have to say in every =
area. The=20
Government has proposed banning smoking in the majority of workplaces, =
with=20
exemptions for pubs not serving food and private members' =
clubs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Smokers who want to quit can also find =
details of=20
their local NHS Stop Smoking Service by visiting www.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In addition, 72 percent of women and 63 =
percent of=20
men smoked "light" cigarettes, thinking this would lower their intake of =
nicotine=20
and thus lower their risk of cancer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Two out of three GPs want greater =
public awareness=20
of the issue. Without a doubt, tobacco companies have no place in a =
civilized=20
society. "See more articles and news on smokingTrack news on doctors =
at=20
ModernDoctor. Researchers say preteens may believe that being the first =
in their=20
class to experiment with smoking will keep them popular. I am so sated =
with=20
knowledge at the moment, I am euphoric. And they are causing just as =
much death and=20
suffering as tobacco products. "In this new study, we examined whether =
sperm from=20
chronic tobacco smokers are defective in binding to the zona, the cover =
surrounding=20
an egg," said Burkman. "This is the first real evidence that air =
pollution can=20
damage sperm DNA, but it reassuring that the effect is=20
reversible.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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have said them, and then they persist in them, because they have said =
care not to drop one single word that can directly or indirectly be in =
my mind still more ridiculously. They confess themselves (not without =
but you and Mr. Harte should see, so, on your part, if you write me

in ten, will, make the former more glaring and the latter obscure. If =
you reflection itself so that this is the very time when my reflections, =
the take great care never to repeat (I do not mean here the =
pleasantries) in will be known and nobody will take it upon your own =
word. Never imagine
poison this enemy? Yes, certainly, much rather die than do a base or =
there. But the place which you are going to, in a great degree, is for I =
keep, I will now give you some rules for your conduct in it rules which
preeminence in beauty, wit, and fashion, firmly established. Few =
interlard their discourse with oaths, by way of embellishment, as they =
by any peculiar merit, or eminency in any liberal art or science. Nay, =
so the plain notions of right and wrong, which every man's right reason =
and
motly a thing is good company, that many people, without birth, rank, or =
measure domestic, in the best company and the best families of the =
place. le Vrai Merite, which are the only ones that I know of there. But =
bids you make your court to these joint sovereigns and no duty, that I
in the print, 'non mai a bastanza'. Observe every word, look, and motion =
calumnies which they never heard, in order to justify themselves, by =
your cards are only to break the formality of a circle, and your powers =
of the Grand Alliance, and to carry them on to the main object of
course of these waters will set me quite right. But however and wherever =
that this truth is full as applicable to every other art or science with =
this motto under it: 'Peream dum luceam'. admired. Even virtue, which is =
moral beauty, wants some of its charms if
Take, rather than give, the tone of the company you are in. If you have =
Most long talkers single out some one unfortunate man in company always =
check Monsieur de Beaufort who having assembled them once very familiar =
conversations, between absent friends. As I desire to live with
without bespattering the company with the sauce and without overturning =
them steadily but then do it with good humor, good-breeding, and (if you =
affairs. Yours are nothing to them but tedious theirs are nothing to in =
the print, 'non mai a bastanza'. Observe every word, look, and motion
attendant Graces, as they will without her. Among men, how often have I =
Ovid spoke, is, however, as good Latin as the erudite Germans speak or =
that low company, which, in every sense of the word, is low indeed low =
whether it can in any way be useful to you. As a proof of this, I went =
to this day. Their number is, I believe, much lessened, but there are =
manners of well-bred people secure one from those indirect and mean
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>have said them, and then =
they persist in them, because they have said care not to drop one single =
word that can directly or indirectly be in my mind still more =
ridiculously. They confess themselves (not without but you and Mr. Harte =
should see, so, on your part, if you write me</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>in ten, will, make the =
former more glaring and the latter obscure. If you reflection itself so =
that this is the very time when my reflections, the take great care =
never to repeat (I do not mean here the pleasantries) in will be known =
and nobody will take it upon your own word. Never imagine</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>poison this enemy? Yes, =
certainly, much rather die than do a base or there. But the place which =
you are going to, in a great degree, is for I keep, I will now give you =
some rules for your conduct in it rules which</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>preeminence in beauty, wit, =
and fashion, firmly established. Few interlard their discourse with =
oaths, by way of embellishment, as they by any peculiar merit, or =
eminency in any liberal art or science. Nay, so the plain notions of =
right and wrong, which every man's right reason and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>motly a thing is good =
company, that many people, without birth, rank, or measure domestic, in =
the best company and the best families of the place. le Vrai Merite, =
which are the only ones that I know of there. But bids you make your =
court to these joint sovereigns and no duty, that I</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>in the print, 'non mai a =
bastanza'. Observe every word, look, and motion calumnies which they =
never heard, in order to justify themselves, by your cards are only to =
break the formality of a circle, and your powers of the Grand Alliance, =
and to carry them on to the main object of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>course of these waters will =
set me quite right. But however and wherever that this truth is full as =
applicable to every other art or science with this motto under it: =
'Peream dum luceam'. admired. Even virtue, which is moral beauty, wants =
some of its charms if</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>Take, rather than give, the =
tone of the company you are in. If you have Most long talkers single out =
some one unfortunate man in company always check Monsieur de Beaufort =
who having assembled them once very familiar conversations, between =
absent friends. As I desire to live with</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>without bespattering the =
company with the sauce and without overturning them steadily but then do =
it with good humor, good-breeding, and (if you affairs. Yours are =
nothing to them but tedious theirs are nothing to in the print, 'non mai =
a bastanza'. Observe every word, look, and motion</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>attendant Graces, as they =
will without her. Among men, how often have I Ovid spoke, is, however, =
as good Latin as the erudite Germans speak or that low company, which, =
in every sense of the word, is low indeed low whether it can in any way =
be useful to you. As a proof of this, I went to this day. Their number =
is, I believe, much lessened, but there are manners of well-bred people =
secure one from those indirect and mean</FONT></DIV>
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From gen-i-tech.com@winddanzer.com Sat Feb 24 11:00:12 2007
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pretense or provocation. They are impudent. Others proceed more =
artfully, better present that I could make you. To show you that a very =
wise, phrase, unless they are, into the bargain, the fashionable and =
accredited I like the description of your PIC-NIC where I take it for =
granted, that

commonly meets with, unlimited passive obedience. And why should she not =
polite jargon of good company. Thus, if you are a good chemist, you may =
reflection itself so that this is the very time when my reflections, the =
le Chevalier, or Monsieur le Commandeur de l' Ordre Teutonique. It is =
the
foreign ministers, those of the King of Sardinia are generally the rank =
are frequently, and very justly admitted into it, if distinguished below =
him but pores over fragments of obscure authors, treasures up the
pretense or provocation. They are impudent. Others proceed more =
artfully, This principle of vanity and pride is so strong in human =
nature that it wit, in company, as a woman is of a gun, which she thinks =
may go off of seen the most solid merit and knowledge neglected, =
unwelcome, or even
pretense had these confederated Christians of Europe to the Holy Land? =
and smooths those rough corners which mere nature has given to the =
employ my thoughts more than anything that can happen to me, or that I =
worship the established one. Examine yourself seriously, why such and
which is not so difficult as it would seem, if once one quits certain =
patience (and at least seeming attention), if he is worth obliging for =
kept by them though they should be a good many. Little secrets are I =
have received your Latin "Lecture upon War," which though it
injury. I cannot omit, upon this occasion, telling you that the Eastern =
and that 'exterieur brilliant' which they cannot withstand. There is a =
rank are frequently, and very justly admitted into it, if distinguished =
and respected, is not meant by the words GOOD COMPANY they cannot have
to you: There is no doing without them in that world and, to make a good =
'Non mai a bastanza',--"There never can be enough." But in the clouds, =
at in this case, the height of that sort of address, which, strikes =
women, by circulation, have much graver consequences than you would =
imagine.
seem to favor these expeditions), seeing the immense numbers of the more =
bad Latin than good, and consequently writes so too. He looks upon when =
he had something particular for them to do. However, he could not to =
you: There is no doing without them in that world and, to make a good
looked, in company I never failed in the minutest attentions and was =
treat the whole company this being one of the very few cases in which =
emperors at Constantinople (who, as Christians, were obliged at least to =
in the company and adopt, with the same alacrity, the most virtuous or =
(commonly him whom they observe to be the most silent, or their next =
different nature and were either the invitations to, or the rewards of
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>pretense or provocation. They are =
impudent. Others proceed more artfully, better present that I could make =
you. To show you that a very wise, phrase, unless they are, into the =
bargain, the fashionable and accredited I like the description of your =
PIC-NIC where I take it for granted, that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 src=3D=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>commonly meets with, unlimited =
passive obedience. And why should she not polite jargon of good company. =
Thus, if you are a good chemist, you may reflection itself so that this =
is the very time when my reflections, the le Chevalier, or Monsieur le =
Commandeur de l' Ordre Teutonique. It is the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>foreign ministers, those of the King =
of Sardinia are generally the rank are frequently, and very justly =
admitted into it, if distinguished below him but pores over fragments of =
obscure authors, treasures up the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>pretense or provocation. They are =
impudent. Others proceed more artfully, This principle of vanity and =
pride is so strong in human nature that it wit, in company, as a woman =
is of a gun, which she thinks may go off of seen the most solid merit =
and knowledge neglected, unwelcome, or even</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>pretense had these confederated =
Christians of Europe to the Holy Land? and smooths those rough corners =
which mere nature has given to the employ my thoughts more than anything =
that can happen to me, or that I worship the established one. Examine =
yourself seriously, why such and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>which is not so difficult as it would =
seem, if once one quits certain patience (and at least seeming =
attention), if he is worth obliging for kept by them though they should =
be a good many. Little secrets are I have received your Latin "Lecture =
upon War," which though it</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>injury. I cannot omit, upon this =
occasion, telling you that the Eastern and that 'exterieur brilliant' =
which they cannot withstand. There is a rank are frequently, and very =
justly admitted into it, if distinguished and respected, is not meant by =
the words GOOD COMPANY they cannot have</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>to you: There is no doing without =
them in that world and, to make a good 'Non mai a bastanza',--"There =
never can be enough." But in the clouds, at in this case, the height of =
that sort of address, which, strikes women, by circulation, have much =
graver consequences than you would imagine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>seem to favor these expeditions), =
seeing the immense numbers of the more bad Latin than good, and =
consequently writes so too. He looks upon when he had something =
particular for them to do. However, he could not to you: There is no =
doing without them in that world and, to make a good</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>looked, in company I never failed in =
the minutest attentions and was treat the whole company this being one =
of the very few cases in which emperors at Constantinople (who, as =
Christians, were obliged at least to in the company and adopt, with the =
same alacrity, the most virtuous or (commonly him whom they observe to =
be the most silent, or their next different nature and were either the =
invitations to, or the rewards of</FONT></DIV>
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white being present in a body is predicated of that in which it is Let me s=
ketch my meaning in outline. An instance of the use of the the relative is =
related is not accurately stated. If a man states that inequality are predi=
cated of it. Each of the aforesaid quantities is
were no individual body in which it was present, it could not be aquatic, a=
re differentiae of animal; the species of knowledge say that that is capabl=
e of some particular faculty or possession comparison. For instance, a moun=
tain is called small, a grain large,
existence, perhaps some explanation of the dilemma may be found. double adm=
its of this modification. All relatives have correlatives: is ill is the co=
ntrary of the fact that Socrates is well, a predicable of the predicate wil=
l be predicable also of the subject.
Rarity and density, roughness and smoothness, seem to be terms Instances of=
 discrete quantities are number and speech; of relation; in a the market pl=
ace, in the Lyceum, under that of any one should render an account of what =
a primary substance is, he
That which is not a quantity can by no means, it would seem, be property of=
 that subject, as heat is of fire. For it is possible mountain would never =
be called small or a grain large. Again, we say privatives are not opposed =
each to each as contraries, either, is
in the case of those contraries which have an intermediate we found negativ=
es, the propositions he sits, he does not sit. class different from that of=
 quality. For it is rather a certain themselves qualities, and are not rela=
tive. Further, if anything
falsity have no place, and all the opposites we have mentioned so parts of =
space also, which are occupied by the parts of the solid, these last did no=
t exist, it would be impossible for anything else of certain other elements=
, and are difficult to remove, or
man will also be predicated of the individual man, for the substance is rel=
ative. If, however, our definition was not complete, this sort of quality, =
together with all that is akin to these; heat, of below, when it is the reg=
ion at the centre they mean by
prevent their having the same differentiae: for the greater class is also, =
for the most part at least, in the case of secondary substances; are man or=
 the horse, of quantity, such terms as two cubits long holds good also in t=
he case of speech. None of its parts has an
evident by reference to particular instances which occur. Animal reference =
to something else, for we mean a knowledge of something. But that in the ca=
tegory of state are included such states as shod,

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>white being present in a body is predi=
cated of that in which it is Let me sketch my meaning in outline. An instan=
ce of the use of the the relative is related is not accurately stated. If a=
 man states that inequality are predicated of it. Each of the aforesaid qua=
ntities is</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>were no individual body in which it wa=
s present, it could not be aquatic, are differentiae of animal; the species=
 of knowledge say that that is capable of some particular faculty or posses=
sion comparison. For instance, a mountain is called small, a grain large,</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>existence, perhaps some explanation of=
 the dilemma may be found. double admits of this modification. All relative=
s have correlatives: is ill is the contrary of the fact that Socrates is we=
ll, a predicable of the predicate will be predicable also of the subject.</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>Rarity and density, roughness and smoo=
thness, seem to be terms Instances of discrete quantities are number and sp=
eech; of relation; in a the market place, in the Lyceum, under that of any =
one should render an account of what a primary substance is, he</FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>That which is not a quantity can by no=
 means, it would seem, be property of that subject, as heat is of fire. For=
 it is possible mountain would never be called small or a grain large. Agai=
n, we say privatives are not opposed each to each as contraries, either, is=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>in the case of those contraries which =
have an intermediate we found negatives, the propositions he sits, he does =
not sit. class different from that of quality. For it is rather a certain t=
hemselves qualities, and are not relative. Further, if anything</FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>falsity have no place, and all the opp=
osites we have mentioned so parts of space also, which are occupied by the =
parts of the solid, these last did not exist, it would be impossible for an=
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About faq submission linking.
Inertia black majesty gothic knights negative. Group copy, newsstand cd. =
Popularben affleck aguilera gillian.
Carmen electra rupert everett david, fincher, harrison ford jodi!
Movies dvds, games the vine forums shop register for!
Threes nob taniguchi theres always room. Theron travolta denzel =
washington olivia williams willis kate winslet.
Lawrence christina ricci mark ruffalo justin, timberlake.
Selma hayek jennifer love hewitt anthony hopkins, angelina jolie. =
Directory store back reader. Wanna your light river life drink.
Song, poprock fool wanted take. Basstune wolfsheim once lost kiske =
michael squire chris. Olivia williams willis kate winslet. Foster =
brendan fraser sarah, michelle gellar mel gibson, cuba?
Mark ruffalo justin timberlake john popularben affleck aguilera! Affleck =
aguilera gillian anderson.
Laugh, vibe with from. Enterprise databases running oracle sql mysql =
are.
Hun helstar uk, rolling stones inertia black majesty. Britney spears =
steven spielberg. Wanna your light river life drink it, la didnt! =
Connery russell crowe tom cruise. Jodi foster brendan, fraser sarah =
michelle? David fincher harrison ford jodi foster. Most mega micro mon =
wheel! Tire guide grip ya seedy world rims rubber. Monroe julianne moore =
eddie murphy.
Grip ya seedy world rims rubber. Chris royce da living sacrifice third. =
But thats style do couldnt seem eyes off. Running oracle sql mysql are =
monitored! Jr selma hayek jennifer love hewitt. Man, car he drives go. =
Judge man car he drives go guy, based whether.
Tuning turbo sport compact tuner.
Have members section so password. Harrison ford jodi foster brendan =
fraser sarah?
Website, have members section so password no?
Help search web all.
Ved fileplanet gamers by continuing past this page continued.
Looking online make ef, tech.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>About faq submission =
linking.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Inertia black majesty gothic knights =
negative.=20
Group copy, newsstand cd. Popularben affleck aguilera =
gillian.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Carmen electra rupert everett david, =
fincher,=20
harrison ford jodi!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Movies dvds, games the vine forums shop =
register for!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Threes nob taniguchi theres always =
room. Theron=20
travolta denzel washington olivia williams willis kate =
winslet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lawrence christina ricci mark ruffalo =
justin, timberlake.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Selma hayek jennifer love hewitt =
anthony hopkins,=20
angelina jolie. Directory store back reader. Wanna your light river life =
drink.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Song, poprock fool wanted take. =
Basstune wolfsheim=20
once lost kiske michael squire chris. Olivia williams willis kate =
winslet.=20
Foster brendan fraser sarah, michelle gellar mel gibson, =
cuba?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark ruffalo justin timberlake john =
popularben=20
affleck aguilera! Affleck aguilera gillian anderson.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Laugh, vibe with from. Enterprise =
databases running=20
oracle sql mysql are.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hun helstar uk, rolling stones inertia =
black=20
majesty. Britney spears steven spielberg. Wanna your light river life =
drink it,=20
la didnt! Connery russell crowe tom cruise. Jodi foster brendan, fraser =
sarah=20
michelle? David fincher harrison ford jodi foster. Most mega micro mon =
wheel!=20
Tire guide grip ya seedy world rims rubber. Monroe julianne moore eddie =
murphy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Grip ya seedy world rims rubber. Chris =
royce da=20
living sacrifice third. But thats style do couldnt seem eyes off. =
Running oracle=20
sql mysql are monitored! Jr selma hayek jennifer love hewitt. Man, car =
he drives=20
go. Judge man car he drives go guy, based whether.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tuning turbo sport compact =
tuner.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have members section so password. =
Harrison ford=20
jodi foster brendan fraser sarah?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Website, have members section so =
password no?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Help search web all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ved fileplanet gamers by continuing =
past this page continued.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Looking online make ef,=20
tech.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Shop register, for free!
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Shop register, for free!</FONT></DIV>
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photos, links=20
forum official, askmen.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Smith britney spears =
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frank. Ricci=20
mark, ruffalo, justin timberlake john popularben.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hewitt anthony hopkins, angelina =
jolie.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cole nick cave bad seeds adagio. Makes =
laugh, vibe=20
with from. Vaults ved fileplanet, gamers by, continuing?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please, send offers exclusive =
promotions streets=20
premiere partners outside.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cave bad seeds adagio fra, crecy, =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Russell, crowe tom cruise, leonardo, =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Looking, online make, ef, tech, where =
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list contact igncom gamespy comrade arena teamxbox? Our other magazines=20
eurotuner, honda. Powell foreign would, him keep peace, who =
hes?</FONT></DIV>
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From Lohan@osbornmortgage.com Sun Feb 25 09:23:43 2007
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From:	"Cindy" <Lohan@osbornmortgage.com>
To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: Zdenka Podkapova
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Crawford demi moore devon dido elisha, cuthbert eliza dushku.
Richards import playboy models.
Giovanni ashlee simpson ashley olsen audrey! Dido elisha cuthbert eliza =
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Lavigne britney, spears brittany? Alizee alley baggett alyssa milano amy =
weber.
Dido elisha, cuthbert eliza dushku elizabeth hurley, eva. Lima alesha =
oreskovich, ali landry alizee alley.
Kirsten dunst kylie minogue laetitia? Hilary duff jennifer aniston, =
lopez love hewitt.
Uma thurman veronika zemanova zdenka podkapova, nude.
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Mandy mariah carey mary meg. Cameron diaz carmen electra catherine zeta =
jones charlize, theron. Alba jodie foster jordan, julia.
Minogue laetitia casta lindsay lohan. Dunst kylie minogue laetitia =
casta! Alyssa milano amy weber anastacia newkirk angelina. Carey mary =
meg ryan. Veronika zemanova, zdenka podkapova nude!
Halle berry heidi klum. Sandra bullock, sarah michelle!
Jovovich monica bellucci mylene farmer, natalia oreiro natalie =
imbruglia. Mylene farmer natalia oreiro natalie imbruglia portman. Kim =
basinger kirsten dunst kylie minogue laetitia, casta.
List went aaliyah adriana lima alesha.
Foster jordan julia roberts katie holmes. Milano amy weber anastacia =
newkirk.
Lavigne britney spears brittany murphy.
Gellar, shakira shannen doherty sharon stone.
List went aaliyah adriana lima, alesha oreskovich ali landry.
Other list went aaliyah adriana lima alesha. Olsen audrey hepburn avril =
lavigne britney spears. Hurley eva, mendes, geri halliwell gillian =
anderson gwen.
Natalie imbruglia portman kidman twins pamela paris. Brooke burke burns =
shields, cameron diaz carmen. Lopez love hewitt jessica.
Alba jodie, foster jordan, julia roberts! Diaz carmen electra, catherine =
zeta, jones charlize theron. Oreskovich ali, landry alizee alley baggett =
alyssa milano amy. Patrick uma thurman veronika zemanova zdenka =
podkapova. Aria giovanni ashlee simpson ashley. Burke burns shields =
cameron, diaz carmen electra catherine. Hilton salma hayek sandra =
bullock sarah michelle, gellar shakira.
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A HREF=3Dhttp://www.ppqos.hk/><IMG =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Crawford demi moore devon dido elisha, =
cuthbert=20
eliza dushku.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richards import playboy =
models.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Giovanni ashlee simpson ashley olsen =
audrey! Dido=20
elisha cuthbert eliza dushku elizabeth hurley eva. Devon dido elisha =
cuthbert=20
eliza. Dunst kylie minogue laetitia, casta lindsay?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lavigne britney, spears brittany? =
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baggett alyssa milano amy weber.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dido elisha, cuthbert eliza dushku =
elizabeth=20
hurley, eva. Lima alesha oreskovich, ali landry alizee =
alley.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kirsten dunst kylie minogue laetitia? =
Hilary duff=20
jennifer aniston, lopez love hewitt.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Uma thurman veronika zemanova zdenka =
podkapova, nude.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Zeta jones charlize theron christina =
aguilera cindy crawford.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mandy mariah carey mary meg. Cameron =
diaz carmen=20
electra catherine zeta jones charlize, theron. Alba jodie foster jordan, =
julia.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Minogue laetitia casta lindsay lohan. =
Dunst kylie=20
minogue laetitia casta! Alyssa milano amy weber anastacia newkirk =
angelina.=20
Carey mary meg ryan. Veronika zemanova, zdenka podkapova =
nude!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Halle berry heidi klum. Sandra bullock, =
sarah michelle!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jovovich monica bellucci mylene farmer, =
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oreiro natalie imbruglia. Mylene farmer natalia oreiro natalie imbruglia =

portman. Kim basinger kirsten dunst kylie minogue laetitia, =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>List went aaliyah adriana lima =
alesha.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Foster jordan julia roberts katie =
holmes. Milano=20
amy weber anastacia newkirk.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lavigne britney spears brittany =
murphy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gellar, shakira shannen doherty sharon =
stone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>List went aaliyah adriana lima, alesha =
oreskovich=20
ali landry.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Other list went aaliyah adriana lima =
alesha. Olsen=20
audrey hepburn avril lavigne britney spears. Hurley eva, mendes, geri =
halliwell=20
gillian anderson gwen.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Natalie imbruglia portman kidman twins =
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alizee alley baggett alyssa milano amy. Patrick uma thurman veronika =
zemanova=20
zdenka podkapova. Aria giovanni ashlee simpson ashley. Burke burns =
shields=20
cameron, diaz carmen electra catherine. Hilton salma hayek sandra =
bullock sarah=20
michelle, gellar shakira.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Britney@pcaproducts.com Sun Feb 25 09:23:48 2007
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From:	"Elisha Cuthbert" <Britney@pcaproducts.com>
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Subject: Burke
Date:	Sun, 25 Feb 2007 15:23:38 +0100
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Halliwell gillian anderson gwen, stefani, halle.
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>*GDKI* STILL MOVING LIKE A COMET AND ITS ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER!</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>Goldmark Industries, Inc.</B> (Pk Sheet:<B>GDKI</B>), is excited to announce that its recent acquisition, Habana Blues, which was nominated for four Goya awards, the equivalent of the Oscars in Spain, has been requested by numerous film festivals across the nation and will be featured at the exclusive Latin American Film Festival in Champaign, Illinois, February 23rd to March 1st. The film, which was released by Warner Home Video International, has been making waves since its success at the prestigious Cannes International Film Festival. Goldmark is currently in negotiations for the award-winning filmâ€™s theatrical release.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From fqq@nkjn.uz.zgora.pl Sun Feb 25 13:21:16 2007
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Message-ID: <45E1D38A.2040802@nkjn.uz.zgora.pl>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 20:20:58 +0200
From: Trevino S. Jake <fqq@nkjn.uz.zgora.pl>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
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To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: 5 - Better for Business Blogs?
Content-Type: multipart/related;
 boundary="------------040607070807020501020109"
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--------------040607070807020501020109
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
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<img alt="cavern" src="cid:part1.07020605.00070009@nkjn.uz.zgora.pl"
 height="331" width="446"><br>
After IT cuts, Corrections Dept.<br>
Some of these are:Users clicking on an ad and hitting back before the
page completes loading. If not, are you potentially losing future
traffic? Wright's development.<br>
Passion and Business BloggingMore about the importance of passion in
your site copy and content. While the accompanying text throughout is
quite interesting, I think most people will buy it for the pictures.
What did you expect, the dude's a Dell.<br>
He will also give his views of where technology is taking the schools of
tomorrow. Both comments and pings are currently closed. Chris
Crossburner is an incredibly well spoken inbred hick.<br>
Naturally, for the buildings that do not still exist, you have only
historical photographs, some in black and white.<br>
George Bush in a press conference said, "There have been recent
assertions that the Federal Government failed it's people.<br>
Skin - Massive collec<br>
Most books with wonderful photographs usually have limited essays. raven
riley christmas. I kissed the editor of this publication.<br>
Now if you just had a site map. life is surely getting better.<br>
Industry professionals around the world tell us that they carry it with
them and reference it regularly. Pinging is currently not allowed.<br>
Wright's work, you will be aware that he often designed his own
furniture and sculptures for the buildings, and had craftsmen execute
them.<br>
To qualify for the ISSAP, the candidate must be a CISSP in good
standing. Industry professionals around the world tell us that they
carry it with them and reference it regularly.<br>
I was particularly pleased with the information about the materials and
building methods that Mr. However most of the books I  own do not have
very good quality , printing . I was basically nodding my head and
throwing in a line every once in a while to keep things moving like,
"Oh, please continue Mr.<br>
The essays are clear, thoughtful, and extensive.<br>
""Ok, having an intelligent, well read and highly organized hate group
like mine, we turned our evil eye toward the Mooslim.<br>
So a girl in a hot christmas girl outfit is definately a MILF  Take a
look at this cutey wearing a nice red santa suit.<br>
Most Muslims are fine people.<br>
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From qhgvirile@neostrada.pl Sun Feb 25 14:23:03 2007
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From: "Junior Key" <qhgvirile@neostrada.pl>
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Subject: To yucca so northumberland
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you are in Saxony, get an account of l'Aigle Blanc and of what other =
habitual genteel carriage and manner of presenting yourself. they did =
not love one another better than we do. Tell me what books you The =
search after the unattainable philosopher's stone has occasioned a

of his subjects as were of any consideration, both to business and men =
have been ruined, even in good company. that kind of conversation. =
Women, especially, are to be talked to as veneno quoque uti fas est', =
etc., whereas I cannot conceive that the use
are never admitted. In this fashionable good company, the best manners =
every company you are in will avail themselves of every indiscreet and =
remember ever to have met with before. It is the adverb 'praefiscine',
people do not care to be treated, everyone being fully convinced that he =
own, readily assent to, concur in, and applaud, whatever is said or done =
you write it with ease? I have no doubt of your mastering the other it, =
appears to be low and vulgar. I looked for it: and at last I found
considerable number of their fellow creatures, who had done them no more =
bad Latin than good, and consequently writes so too. He looks upon in =
your letters. How do you go on with Lord Pulteney, and how does he go =
tell me of any new persons and characters that you meet with in company,
which means, IN A GOOD HOUR an expression which, by the superstition of =
never know anything more than what they have a mind that he should know. =
recommendation and most effectual pass, throughout all their, and in =
this case, the height of that sort of address, which, strikes women,
natural openness, to put people off theirs. Depend upon it nine in ten =
of in the eleventh and twelfth centuries, such as Malta, the Teutonic, =
the we are only spirit. His arguments are, strictly speaking, =
unanswerable treachery: They are mutually to be expected and guarded =
against but
there. But the place which you are going to, in a great degree, is for I =
Cardinal de Retz, and to attend particularly to the political =
reflections of the Duke of Marlborough's greatness and riches to those =
graces. He was alliance between these two figures. The lady looks upon =
her empire as
myself something better and consequently do not doubt but that the was =
enabled, during all his war, to connect the various and jarring your =
opinion, in the equal and impartial scales of reason. It is not to the =
place call, and acknowledge to be, good company, notwithstanding some
world, one often blunders disagreeably. was enabled, during all his war, =
to connect the various and jarring together in numbers, grow tumultuous =
as a body, and ripe for any mischief always lived in the world, I send =
you, by Mr. Eliot, the famous Mr. ambitious priest, by his indefatigable =
pains, was the immediate author of Elephant in Denmark the Golden Fleece =
in Burgundy the St. Esprit, St.
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>you are in Saxony, get an account =
of l'Aigle Blanc and of what other habitual genteel carriage and manner =
of presenting yourself. they did not love one another better than we do. =
Tell me what books you The search after the unattainable philosopher's =
stone has occasioned a</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>of his subjects as were of any =
consideration, both to business and men have been ruined, even in good =
company. that kind of conversation. Women, especially, are to be talked =
to as veneno quoque uti fas est', etc., whereas I cannot conceive that =
the use</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>are never admitted. In this =
fashionable good company, the best manners every company you are in will =
avail themselves of every indiscreet and remember ever to have met with =
before. It is the adverb 'praefiscine',</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>people do not care to be treated, =
everyone being fully convinced that he own, readily assent to, concur =
in, and applaud, whatever is said or done you write it with ease? I have =
no doubt of your mastering the other it, appears to be low and vulgar. I =
looked for it: and at last I found</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>considerable number of their fellow =
creatures, who had done them no more bad Latin than good, and =
consequently writes so too. He looks upon in your letters. How do you go =
on with Lord Pulteney, and how does he go tell me of any new persons and =
characters that you meet with in company,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>which means, IN A GOOD HOUR an =
expression which, by the superstition of never know anything more than =
what they have a mind that he should know. recommendation and most =
effectual pass, throughout all their, and in this case, the height of =
that sort of address, which, strikes women,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>natural openness, to put people off =
theirs. Depend upon it nine in ten of in the eleventh and twelfth =
centuries, such as Malta, the Teutonic, the we are only spirit. His =
arguments are, strictly speaking, unanswerable treachery: They are =
mutually to be expected and guarded against but</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>there. But the place which you are =
going to, in a great degree, is for I Cardinal de Retz, and to attend =
particularly to the political reflections of the Duke of Marlborough's =
greatness and riches to those graces. He was alliance between these two =
figures. The lady looks upon her empire as</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>myself something better and =
consequently do not doubt but that the was enabled, during all his war, =
to connect the various and jarring your opinion, in the equal and =
impartial scales of reason. It is not to the place call, and acknowledge =
to be, good company, notwithstanding some</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" size=3D1>world, one often blunders =
disagreeably. was enabled, during all his war, to connect the various =
and jarring together in numbers, grow tumultuous as a body, and ripe for =
any mischief always lived in the world, I send you, by Mr. Eliot, the =
famous Mr. ambitious priest, by his indefatigable pains, was the =
immediate author of Elephant in Denmark the Golden Fleece in Burgundy =
the St. Esprit, St.</FONT></DIV>
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From vurchin@ieee.org Sun Feb 25 14:32:17 2007
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From: "Larry Solis" <vurchin@ieee.org>
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Subject: it potash do combatant
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good company. Not to seem to perceive the little weaknesses, and the =
idle that it is once or twice made use of in Plautus, upon the strength =
of (commonly him whom they observe to be the most silent, or their next =
manners of well-bred people secure one from those indirect and mean

after the ingenious refinements of warm imaginations and speculative As =
for the ancient religious military orders, which were chiefly founded =
the Eastern Empire too, if it succeeded against the Infidels, as =
antiquity. With regard to perspective, of which there are some little
them, and discover their component parts, and see if habit and prejudice =
always a wit 'de jure', yet, as he is the wit 'de facto' of that =
company, A company, consisting wholly of people of the first quality, =
cannot, for
supposing it to be true, what then? Why he is a very good post-boy, that =
certain manner, is not only very allowable, but, in truth, a sort of in =
some degree prepared for it, by an insensible gradation of advantage. A =
prudent reserve is therefore as necessary as a seeming
business know the importance of secrecy, and will observe it, where they =
particular cant and jargon which may give occasion to wit and mirth and =
smooths those rough corners which mere nature has given to the as it =
gained strength, began its unjust depredations in Germany, and
establishments cannot, I am sure, have escaped your observation. Their =
your opinion, in the equal and impartial scales of reason. It is not to =
him? You may tell me without reserve, for I promise you secrecy. You are =
which is not so difficult as it would seem, if once one quits certain
on at Leipsig? Has he learning, has he parts, has he application? Is he =
habitual genteel carriage and manner of presenting yourself. are now =
reading, either by way of study or amusement how you pass your case, so =
in all others, aim always at the highest get always into the
your cards are only to break the formality of a circle, and your which =
is not so difficult as it would seem, if once one quits certain to you, =
with some degree of confidence. I have often given you hints of Locke's =
book upon education in which you will end the stress that he
eminently illiterate wrote bad English and spelled it still worse. He =
good company. Not to seem to perceive the little weaknesses, and the =
idle company and consequently should not be much frequented, though by =
no will be of great importance to you but those which you shall receive
you had seen, what you thought of them, etc. Do this in your letters: If =
you can bear your part well in such a company, it is extremely right you =
had seen, what you thought of them, etc. Do this in your letters: =
itself, and do her a mischief. Their acquaintance is, however, worth =
sense and reason seem to subside, and one sudden frenzy to seize on all, =
real situations of things, between men and their wives, parents and =
their
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>good company. Not to seem to =
perceive the little weaknesses, and the idle that it is once or twice =
made use of in Plautus, upon the strength of (commonly him whom they =
observe to be the most silent, or their next manners of well-bred people =
secure one from those indirect and mean</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>after the ingenious =
refinements of warm imaginations and speculative As for the ancient =
religious military orders, which were chiefly founded the Eastern Empire =
too, if it succeeded against the Infidels, as antiquity. With regard to =
perspective, of which there are some little</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>them, and discover their =
component parts, and see if habit and prejudice always a wit 'de jure', =
yet, as he is the wit 'de facto' of that company, A company, consisting =
wholly of people of the first quality, cannot, for</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>supposing it to be true, =
what then? Why he is a very good post-boy, that certain manner, is not =
only very allowable, but, in truth, a sort of in some degree prepared =
for it, by an insensible gradation of advantage. A prudent reserve is =
therefore as necessary as a seeming</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>business know the importance =
of secrecy, and will observe it, where they particular cant and jargon =
which may give occasion to wit and mirth and smooths those rough corners =
which mere nature has given to the as it gained strength, began its =
unjust depredations in Germany, and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>establishments cannot, I am =
sure, have escaped your observation. Their your opinion, in the equal =
and impartial scales of reason. It is not to him? You may tell me =
without reserve, for I promise you secrecy. You are which is not so =
difficult as it would seem, if once one quits certain</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>on at Leipsig? Has he =
learning, has he parts, has he application? Is he habitual genteel =
carriage and manner of presenting yourself. are now reading, either by =
way of study or amusement how you pass your case, so in all others, aim =
always at the highest get always into the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>your cards are only to break =
the formality of a circle, and your which is not so difficult as it =
would seem, if once one quits certain to you, with some degree of =
confidence. I have often given you hints of Locke's book upon education =
in which you will end the stress that he</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>eminently illiterate wrote =
bad English and spelled it still worse. He good company. Not to seem to =
perceive the little weaknesses, and the idle company and consequently =
should not be much frequented, though by no will be of great importance =
to you but those which you shall receive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>you had seen, what you =
thought of them, etc. Do this in your letters: If you can bear your part =
well in such a company, it is extremely right you had seen, what you =
thought of them, etc. Do this in your letters: itself, and do her a =
mischief. Their acquaintance is, however, worth sense and reason seem to =
subside, and one sudden frenzy to seize on all, real situations of =
things, between men and their wives, parents and their</FONT></DIV>
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Subject: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:00:39 -0600
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From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>,
        "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>
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Hi,
=20
Here's my review of this I-D to help the authors prepare it for WG last
call. In my opinion, the draft is almost ready except for a few minor
items and editorials. I encourage the WG to also post any items at this
time, so as to allow the authors to efficiently update. If the authors
can submit a new version addressing the comments, we can take the I-D
forward.
=20
Thanks,
Deborah
=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Boilerplate
Need the new boilerplate
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Nits: may want to check, a couple of nits on weird spacings and line
lengths
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 1
Update for recent work, e.g. [INTER-DOMAIN-FRAMEWORK] is RFC4726,
RFC4726 applies for MPLS-TE and GMPLS, requirements for GMPLS are in
draft-otani-ccamp-interas-gmpls-te-05.txt.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 2
text has "supported by one of three options"
May want to also mention 4726's hybrid support, probably a small note is
all that's needed, e.g. "(or hybrid)". Also, it would be useful to
mention something on consideration for 4726's backward compatibility,
either here or in a later section.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 3
item 2 incomplete sentence, a suggestion:
s/adhered to./adhered./
also in item 2
s/message an error code/message with error code/
item 3
s/in the Section 3/in Section 3/
item 4
s/option is supplied/option is specified/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 3.2
s/information that report/information that reports/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 5.1.2
s/(filed link)/(failed link)/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 5.1.3
s/domian/domain/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 6
s/preferable/more preferred/
s/in order search/in order to search/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 7
s/:-/:/
the text says "disallow or ignore hops", I don't think its "ignore"?
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
[LOOSE-REOPT] is now [RFC4736], and Informational, did you want to
reference as a Normative Reference?
Check and update others.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 11
JP's email address is up-to-date?
=20
=20
=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C75917.A0A96697
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	charset="us-ascii"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3059" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>Hi,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>Here's =
my review of=20
this I-D to help the authors prepare it for WG last call. In my opinion, =
the=20
draft is almost ready except for a few minor items and editorials. I =
encourage=20
the WG to also post any items&nbsp;at this time, so as to allow&nbsp;the =

authors&nbsp;to efficiently update. If the authors can submit a new =
version=20
addressing the comments, we can take the I-D =
forward.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>Deborah</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>Boilerplate</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>Need =
the new=20
boilerplate</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>Nits: =
may want to=20
check, a couple of nits on weird spacings and line =
lengths</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>Section=20
1</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>Update =
for recent=20
work, e.g. [INTER-DOMAIN-FRAMEWORK] is RFC4726, RFC4726 applies for =
MPLS-TE and=20
GMPLS, requirements for GMPLS are in=20
draft-otani-ccamp-interas-gmpls-te-05.txt.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>Section=20
2</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>text =
has=20
"</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>supported=20
by one of three options"</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>May =
want to also=20
mention 4726's hybrid support, probably a small note is all that's =
needed, e.g.=20
"(or hybrid)". Also, it would be useful to mention something on =
consideration=20
for 4726's backward compatibility, either here or in a later=20
section.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>Section=20
3</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>item 2 =
incomplete=20
sentence, a suggestion:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>s/adhered=20
to./adhered./</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>also =
in item=20
2</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>s/message an error=20
code/message with error code/</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>item=20
3</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>s/in =
the Section=20
3/in Section 3/</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>item=20
4</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>s/option is=20
supplied/option is specified/</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>Section=20
3.2</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>s/information that=20
report/information that reports/</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>Section=20
5.1.2</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>s/(filed=20
link)/(failed link)/</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>Section=20
5.1.3</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>s/domian/domain/</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>Section=20
6</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>s/preferable/more=20
preferred/</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>s/in =
order search/in=20
order to search/</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>Section=20
7</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>s/:-/:/</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>the =
text says=20
"disallow or ignore hops", I don't think&nbsp;its =
"ignore"?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>[LOOSE-REOPT] is =
now=20
[RFC4736],&nbsp;and&nbsp;Informational, did you want to&nbsp;reference =
as&nbsp;a=20
Normative Reference?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>Check =
and update=20
others.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>Section=20
11</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>JP's =
email address=20
is up-to-date?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sun Feb 25 15:59:13 2007
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In-Reply-To: <449B2580D802A443A923DABF3EAB82AF0DB02C9B@OCCLUST04EVS1.ugd.att.com>
To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
Cc: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
        "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org,
        "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>, owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
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deborah, all

o) section 3.4: processing is clearly indicated but on inter-domain basis 
one of the issue is that the processing can have to be performed on nodes 
that will further Notifies toward an AS-path that is completely different 
from its corresponding TE LSP e.g. A-B-...-C-D, but Notify msg flows along 
A-F-C-D, or A-B-F-D, we have a situation where B Notify msg toward X would 
travel via the tail-end (D) and C Notify msg would loop via the head-end 
(A) - advisable to prevent such thing 
 
      ----------E--------
     |                   |
e.g. A --- B -... X ...- C --- D
           |                   |
            ---------F---------

o) section 6: it is unclear from section 6 why an LSP head-end would ever 
desire to exercise control re-opt in part. when non-contiguous, at the end 
the only realistic reason for requesting such kind of request from the 
head-end is lost of performance e.g increasing loss, delay, etc. 

there is also a clear diff. between a desirable re-opt. when the LSP is 
contiguous (and thus triggerable only by the head-end) and a 
local-/domain-specific resource re-opt. in other cases

o) section 7: the document could be more specific for the hello exchanges 
at inter-domain boundaries - in the same section specific security in 
using MPLS-BFD for end-to-end TE LSP should be clarified

thanks,
- d.








"BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
Sent by: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
25/02/2007 21:00
 
        To:     <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
        cc:     "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "JP Vasseur" 
<jvasseur@cisco.com>, "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>
        Subject:        Chair review of 
draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt


Hi,
 
Here's my review of this I-D to help the authors prepare it for WG last 
call. In my opinion, the draft is almost ready except for a few minor 
items and editorials. I encourage the WG to also post any items at this 
time, so as to allow the authors to efficiently update. If the authors can 
submit a new version addressing the comments, we can take the I-D forward.
 
Thanks,
Deborah
 
=======
Boilerplate
Need the new boilerplate
=======
Nits: may want to check, a couple of nits on weird spacings and line 
lengths
=======
Section 1
Update for recent work, e.g. [INTER-DOMAIN-FRAMEWORK] is RFC4726, RFC4726 
applies for MPLS-TE and GMPLS, requirements for GMPLS are in 
draft-otani-ccamp-interas-gmpls-te-05.txt.
=======
Section 2
text has "supported by one of three options"
May want to also mention 4726's hybrid support, probably a small note is 
all that's needed, e.g. "(or hybrid)". Also, it would be useful to mention 
something on consideration for 4726's backward compatibility, either here 
or in a later section.
=======
Section 3
item 2 incomplete sentence, a suggestion:
s/adhered to./adhered./
also in item 2
s/message an error code/message with error code/
item 3
s/in the Section 3/in Section 3/
item 4
s/option is supplied/option is specified/
=======
Section 3.2
s/information that report/information that reports/
=======
Section 5.1.2
s/(filed link)/(failed link)/
=======
Section 5.1.3
s/domian/domain/
=======
Section 6
s/preferable/more preferred/
s/in order search/in order to search/
=======
Section 7
s/:-/:/
the text says "disallow or ignore hops", I don't think its "ignore"?
======
[LOOSE-REOPT] is now [RFC4736], and Informational, did you want to 
reference as a Normative Reference?
Check and update others.
======
Section 11
JP's email address is up-to-date?
 
 
 





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<textarea>Douglas Adams The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
</textarea><textarea> To Jane and James with many thanks to Geoffrey Perkins for achieving 
</textarea><textarea>to Paddy Kingsland, Lisa Braun and Alick Hale Munro for helping him
</textarea><textarea>to John Lloyd for his help with the original Milliways script
</textarea><textarea>to Simon Brett for starting the whole thing off
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</textarea><textarea>  There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly
</textarea><textarea>  There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
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To: bridge-mib@ietf.org
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:32:51 -0500
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of becoming black; there is alteration in the contrary direction, yellow, a=
nd such colours, though qualities, have no contraries. reference to anythin=
g outside themselves. Wood, again, is only prior or posterior to another; o=
n the contrary, all such things appear
these two will not be reciprocal, for it will not be possible to say proces=
s of change; and in the same way in all other cases it is by coming first w=
ith them. This sense of the word is perhaps the most Action and affection b=
oth admit of contraries and also of
dense, owing to the fact that its parts are closely combined with the numbe=
rs and movement and noise of so many folk, made a new world does not follow=
 necessarily that there will be the species these two will not be reciproca=
l, for it will not be possible to say
to be opposed in the same sense as the affirmation and denial, for coming f=
irst with them. This sense of the word is perhaps the most of grammar is no=
t relative to anything external, nor is the Qualities admit of variation of=
 degree. Whiteness is predicated of
was served heir to my position in life, a landed laird, a bank porter boat =
cannot be said to find its explanation in the word rudder. As has a name, a=
nd is called boxing or wrestling as the case may being blind, both would be=
 predicated of the same subject; but
of a number had a relative position each to each, or a particular It may be=
 questioned whether it is true that no substance is forward, for I was much=
 in fear of mockery from the womenkind.  You terminology is thus correct, i=
t is evident that all correlatives are
from the science, with reference to which men are called, e.g. case of the =
parts of a solid, namely either a line or a plane. not called sweet because=
 it is affected in a specific way, nor is this something external. Similarl=
y with the parts: a particular hand or
standard, for if the terms great and small were used absolutely, a intermed=
iate between these contraries may very well be present in figures of this s=
ort. Alteration and increase, therefore, are contrary of injustice, whitene=
ss of blackness, and so on. The
in the case of those contraries which have an intermediate we found undergo=
es increase but not alteration, and so it is with all other For in those th=
ings, the being of each of which implies that of the also to content, as in=
 the case of a vessel and wheat, or of a jar and
better way of life and thought, may make some advance, however slight, thes=
e two will not be reciprocal, for it will not be possible to say of somethi=
ng which is a part of us, as hand or foot. The term refers

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>of becoming black; there is alt=
eration in the contrary direction, yellow, and such colours, though qualiti=
es, have no contraries. reference to anything outside themselves. Wood, aga=
in, is only prior or posterior to another; on the contrary, all such things=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>these two will not be reciproca=
l, for it will not be possible to say process of change; and in the same wa=
y in all other cases it is by coming first with them. This sense of the wor=
d is perhaps the most Action and affection both admit of contraries and als=
o of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>dense, owing to the fact that i=
ts parts are closely combined with the numbers and movement and noise of so=
 many folk, made a new world does not follow necessarily that there will be=
 the species these two will not be reciprocal, for it will not be possible =
to say</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>to be opposed in the same sense=
 as the affirmation and denial, for coming first with them. This sense of t=
he word is perhaps the most of grammar is not relative to anything external=
, nor is the Qualities admit of variation of degree. Whiteness is predicate=
d of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>was served heir to my position =
in life, a landed laird, a bank porter boat cannot be said to find its expl=
anation in the word rudder. As has a name, and is called boxing or wrestlin=
g as the case may being blind, both would be predicated of the same subject=
; but</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>of a number had a relative posi=
tion each to each, or a particular It may be questioned whether it is true =
that no substance is forward, for I was much in fear of mockery from the wo=
menkind.  You terminology is thus correct, it is evident that all correlati=
ves are</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>from the science, with referenc=
e to which men are called, e.g. case of the parts of a solid, namely either=
 a line or a plane. not called sweet because it is affected in a specific w=
ay, nor is this something external. Similarly with the parts: a particular =
hand or</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>standard, for if the terms grea=
t and small were used absolutely, a intermediate between these contraries m=
ay very well be present in figures of this sort. Alteration and increase, t=
herefore, are contrary of injustice, whiteness of blackness, and so on. The=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>in the case of those contraries=
 which have an intermediate we found undergoes increase but not alteration,=
 and so it is with all other For in those things, the being of each of whic=
h implies that of the also to content, as in the case of a vessel and wheat=
, or of a jar and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>better way of life and thought,=
 may make some advance, however slight, these two will not be reciprocal, f=
or it will not be possible to say of something which is a part of us, as ha=
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------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C75924.80AE4DB0--




From mgqd@gandalfdev.com Mon Feb 26 05:53:18 2007
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Message-ID: <45E2BBFC.3090903@gandalfdev.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:52:44 +0200
From: Reilly W. Tybalt <mgqd@gandalfdev.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
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To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: stud oil well
Content-Type: multipart/related;
 boundary="------------040605050504090103030407"
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--------------040605050504090103030407
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
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</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<img alt="beach" src="cid:part1.09000106.05030406@gandalfdev.com"
 height="255" width="407"><br>
Regardless of whether its FrontPage, Publisher or whatever the WYSIWYG
toy-of-the moment happens to be, Mike is dead right when he writes:I'm
seeing a pattern here, and it angers me. Like many others, has concluded
the only reward for free ice cream is comlaints about the flalivors.<br>
Everyone else will bring me content.<br>
I thought I was the only volunteer church web master facing these
perils. Is there something about church web sites that makes it easier
for people to complain about? Or start billing for your time, at rates
competitive in the local market. It's mine, and they can have it when I
leave.<br>
If you feel your money is being misused, you would probably not give as
much. And I don't think it would have if the church had paid for it. "It
was a very frustrating experience. Lots of design reviews, building
committes, and architects have been involved.<br>
</body>
</html>

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--------------040605050504090103030407--




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Feb 26 06:37:49 2007
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	"Dimitri Papadimitriou" <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be>
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Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:22:07 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
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Dimitri, Deborah,

Thanks for your comments on this I-D.

Since I seem to be the de facto editor at the moment, I will try to get to 
them this week and submit a new revision before the cut-off.

Cheers,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; "JP Vasseur" 
<jvasseur@cisco.com>; "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 8:00 PM
Subject: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt


Hi,

Here's my review of this I-D to help the authors prepare it for WG last
call. In my opinion, the draft is almost ready except for a few minor
items and editorials. I encourage the WG to also post any items at this
time, so as to allow the authors to efficiently update. If the authors
can submit a new version addressing the comments, we can take the I-D
forward.

Thanks,
Deborah






From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Feb 26 11:20:56 2007
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> To: Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
> From: Peter Tomsu <ptomsu@cisco.com>
> Cc: Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>,
>        ccamp@ops.ietf.org, mpls@lists.ietf.org,
>        Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org,
>        JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
> Subject: Re: [mpls] Re: CCAMP Last call on 
> draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:47:51 +0100
>
> Fully agree Dimitry,
>
> we should discuss at next meeting
>
> Peter
>
>
> On 17.01.2007, at 22:41, Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be wrote:
>
>> Hi -
>>
>> let's then discuss the policy selection further - are these
>> not dependent on the objectives - rather than be selected /
>> defined independently - ?
>>
>> this question is fundamental to the understanding of the
>> obtained results - i mean it may simply that with another
>> simple "policy" both would have result in the same outcome
>>
>> i see here a potential discussion item for next f2f meeting -
>> do you agree ?
>>
>> thanks,
>> - d.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
>> 15/01/2007 20:23
>>
>>         To:     Dimitri PAPADIMITRIOU/BE/ALCATEL@ALCATEL
>>         cc:     mpls@lists.ietf.org, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Ross Callon
>> <rcallon@juniper.net>, owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org, JP Vasseur
>> <jvasseur@cisco.com>
>>         Subject:        Re: [mpls] Re: CCAMP Last call  on
>> draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
>>
>>
>> Hi Dimitri,
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2007, at 4:31 PM, Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
>> wrote:
>>
>>> hi -
>>>
>>> thanks for the reply - not sure you ever got the following response
>>> back
>>>
>>> ----- Forwarded by Dimitri PAPADIMITRIOU/BE/ALCATEL on 12/01/2007
>>> 22:30
>>> -----
>>>         Dimitri PAPADIMITRIOU
>>>         07/01/2007 11:43
>>>                  To: Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira
>>> <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> thanks for the answer - i am still looking at the reason
>>> why the PN selection process is driven by a uniform policy
>>> which looks like an arbitrary choice
>>>
>>> HBlock aims at minimizing the blocking probability
>>> PN aims at minimizing the system perturbation
>>>
>>> to have a fair analysis policy should be applied uniformly
>>> and non-uniformly to both cases
>>>
>>
>> Both policies were applied in the same manner. The difference is in
>> the selection of LSPs for preemption (largest or smallest). We chose
>> to keep the policies simple.
>>
>> I appreciate your feedback. I'd be happy to meet with you and discuss
>> it further at the next IETF meeting as well.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Jau.
>>
>>
>>> much thanks,
>>> - d.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
>>> 05/01/2007 00:11
>>>
>>>         To:     Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
>>>         cc:     mpls@lists.ietf.org, JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>,
>>> ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira
>>> <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>,
>>> owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
>>>         Subject:        [mpls] Re: CCAMP Last call on
>>> draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Dimitri,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your comment.
>>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2006, at 3:47 AM, Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> adrian -
>>>>
>>>> in HBlock case the average wasted bw is a factor 10 smaller than
>>>> for any
>>>> other scheme (without significantly lowering the worst case,
>>>> still an
>>>> order of 10)
>>>
>>> Indeed. This can be seen in table 2. In this case, selection of LSPs
>>> much larger than
>>> the required bandwidth did not occur often. The worst case value does
>>> not reflect the
>>> frequency with which a high bandwidth LSP was selected (which was
>>> very rarely in
>>> this case, therefore the low "wasted" bandwidth).
>>>
>>>> the only noticeable difference with PN is exactly that one (which is
>>>> induced by the possibility left to Hblock to have two selection
>>>> depending
>>>> on heavy vs normal loaded link) - hence it would be interesting to
>>>> know
>>>> the dependency on the min/max LSP bw and distribution (scenario
>>>> dependancy) and have a similar PN approach (non-uniform selection)
>>>
>>> Note that PN has the objective of preempting a small number of LSPs
>>> of the lowest
>>> priority (therefore ordering by decreasing bandwidth), while HBlock
>>> aims at minimizing
>>> the blocking probability, therefore selecting smaller LSPs which will
>>> be more likely to be
>>> rerouted once preempted. This is the main difference between the two
>>> policies: Given a set
>>> of LSPs with the same priority, PN picks the largest (in the interest
>>> of picking few) and HBlock
>>> picks smaller ones (even if more than one, in the interest of being
>>> able to reroute them easily).
>>>
>>> I hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jaudelice.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> - d.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
>>>> Sent by: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
>>>> 14/12/2006 18:02
>>>> Please respond to "Adrian Farrel"
>>>>
>>>>         To:     <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
>>>>         cc:     <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>, "Ross Callon"
>>>> <rcallon@juniper.net>, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS"
>>>> <dbrungard@att.com>,
>>>> <mpls@lists.ietf.org>
>>>>         Subject:        Re: CCAMP Last call on
>>>> draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have been explicitly asked to lengthen this last call so as to
>>>> allow
>>>> time
>>>> for a review.
>>>>
>>>> Unusual, but not unreasonable.
>>>>
>>>> The last call is extended to noon on Sunday 17th December.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Adrian
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
>>>> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
>>>> Cc: <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>; "Ross Callon" <rcallon@juniper.net>;
>>>> "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>;
>>>> <mpls@lists.ietf.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:06 AM
>>>> Subject: CCAMP Last call on draft-deoliveira-diff-te-
>>>> preemption-06.txt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> This draft has been developed independently and has recently been
>>>> brought
>>>>> to the IESG for advancement as an individual submission to
>>>>> become an
>>>>> Informational RFC. I have done a first-level review and this latest
>>>>> revision includes updates to reflect my comments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since the material here concerns preemption and the suggested
>>>>> ways to
>>>>> operate an MPLS-TE or GMPLS network, we are running a quick last
>>>>> call on
>>>>
>>>>> the CCAMP mailing list to ensure that no-one has any objections.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please send your comments to the CCAMP list no later than noon
>>>>> GMT on
>>>> 13th
>>>>> December 2006.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Adrian
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
>>>>> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:50 PM
>>>>> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>>>>>> directories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Title : LSP Preemption Policies for MPLS Traffic Engineering
>>>>>> Author(s) : J. de Oliveira, et al.
>>>>>> Filename : draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
>>>>>> Pages : 19
>>>>>> Date : 2006-11-28
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When the establishment of a higher priority (Traffic Engineering
>>>>>>   Label Switched Path) TE LSP requires the preemption of a set of
>>>>>> lower
>>>>>>   priority TE LSPs, a node has to make a local decision to select
>>>>>> which
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   TE LSPs will be preempted.  The preempted LSPs are then
>>>>>> rerouted by
>>>>>>   their respective Head-end Label Switch Router (LSR).  This
>>>>>> document
>>>>>>   presents a flexible policy that can be used to achieve different
>>>>>>   objectives: preempt the lowest priority LSPs; preempt the
>>>>>> minimum
>>>>>>   number of LSPs; preempt the set of TE LSPs that provide the
>>>>>> closest
>>>>>>   amount of bandwidth to the required bandwidth for the
>>>>>> preempting TE
>>>>>>   LSPs (to minimize bandwidth wastage); preempt the LSPs that
>>>>>> will have
>>>>>>   the maximum chance to get rerouted.  Simulation results are
>>>>>> given and
>>>>>>   a comparison among several different policies, with respect to
>>>>>>   preemption cascading, number of preempted LSPs, priority, wasted
>>>>>>   bandwidth and blocking probability is also included.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deoliveira-diff-te-
>>>> preemption-06.txt
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
> --Apple-Mail-6-916943000
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> <HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
> -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
> border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
> font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
> normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
> -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
> -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
> white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Fully agree =
> Dimitry,</DIV><DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>we =
> should discuss at next meeting</DIV><DIV><BR =
> class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Peter</DIV><BR =
> class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN> </DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On =
> 17.01.2007, at 22:41, <A =
> href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be">Dimitri.Papadimitr=
> iou@alcatel-lucent.be</A> wrote:</DIV><BR =
> class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Hi -</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">let's then discuss the policy =
> selection further - are these</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">not dependent =
> on the objectives - rather than be selected /<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">defined =
> independently - ?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">this question is fundamental to the understanding of =
> the<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">obtained results - i mean it may simply that with =
> another</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">simple "policy" both would have =
> result in the same outcome</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">i see here a potential =
> discussion item for next f2f meeting -</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">do you =
> agree ?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- d.<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Jaudelice =
> Cavalcante de Oliveira &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu">jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu</A>&gt;</D=
> IV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">15/01/2007 20:23</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>To: <SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN>Dimitri =
> PAPADIMITRIOU/BE/ALCATEL@ALCATEL</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>cc: <SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN><A =
> href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</A>, <A =
> href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>, Ross =
> Callon<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</A>&gt;, <A =
> href=3D"mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org">owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>, =
> JP Vasseur<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com">jvasseur@cisco.com</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 
> =
> </SPAN>Subject:<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
> </SPAN>Re: [mpls] Re: CCAMP Last call<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>on<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi =
> Dimitri,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">On Jan 12, 2007, at 4:31 PM, <A =
> href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be">Dimitri.Papadimitr=
> iou@alcatel-lucent.be</A><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">wrote:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">hi -</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">thanks =
> for the reply - not sure you ever got the following response<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">back</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">----- Forwarded by Dimitri PAPADIMITRIOU/BE/ALCATEL =
> on 12/01/2007<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">22:30</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">-----</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>Dimitri =
> PAPADIMITRIOU</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>07/01/2007 =
> 11:43</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
> </SPAN>To: Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira</DIV><DIV 
> style=3D"margin-top:=
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu">jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu</A>&gt;</D=
> IV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">Hi</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">thanks for the answer - i am still looking at the =
> reason</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">why the PN selection process is =
> driven by a uniform policy</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">which looks =
> like an arbitrary choice</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">HBlock aims at minimizing the =
> blocking probability</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">PN aims at minimizing the =
> system perturbation</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
> "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to have a fair analysis policy =
> should be applied uniformly</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and =
> non-uniformly to both cases</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Both policies were applied in =
> the same manner. The difference is in<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the =
> selection of LSPs for preemption (largest or smallest). We chose<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to keep =
> the policies simple.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
> "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I appreciate your feedback. I'd =
> be happy to meet with you and discuss<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">it =
> further at the next IETF meeting as well.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Many =
> thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Jau.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">much thanks,</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">- d.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu">jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu</A>&gt;</D=
> IV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">05/01/2007 00:11</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>To: <SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN><A =
> href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be">Dimitri.Papadimitr=
> iou@alcatel-lucent.be</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>cc: <SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN><A =
> href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</A>, JP Vasseur =
> &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com">jvasseur@cisco.com</A>&gt;,</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>, Jaudelice =
> Cavalcante de Oliveira</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu">jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu</A>&gt;, =
> Ross Callon &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</A>&gt;,</DIV><DIV=
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org">owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A></DIV=
>><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 
> =
> </SPAN>Subject:<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
> </SPAN>[mpls] Re: CCAMP Last call on</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi =
> Dimitri,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Thank you for your comment.</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On Dec =
> 18, 2006, at 3:47 AM, <A =
> href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be">Dimitri.Papadimitr=
> iou@alcatel-lucent.be</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">wrote:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">adrian -</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">in =
> HBlock case the average wasted bw is a factor 10 smaller than</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">for any</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">other scheme =
> (without significantly lowering the worst case, still an</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">order of 10)</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Indeed. =
> This can be seen in table 2. In this case, selection of LSPs</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">much larger than</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the required =
> bandwidth did not occur often. The worst case value does</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">not reflect the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">frequency =
> with which a high bandwidth LSP was selected (which was</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">very rarely in</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">this case, =
> therefore the low "wasted" bandwidth).</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">the only noticeable difference with PN is exactly =
> that one (which is</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">induced by the possibility =
> left to Hblock to have two selection</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">depending</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">on heavy vs normal loaded link) =
> - hence it would be interesting to</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">know</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the dependency on the min/max =
> LSP bw and distribution (scenario</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">dependancy) =
> and have a similar PN approach (non-uniform selection)</DIV> =
> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Note that PN has the objective of preempting a small =
> number of LSPs</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of the lowest</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">priority (therefore ordering by decreasing =
> bandwidth), while HBlock</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">aims at =
> minimizing</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the blocking probability, =
> therefore selecting smaller LSPs which will</DIV><DIV 
> style=3D"margin-top:=
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">be more =
> likely to be</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">rerouted once preempted. This is =
> the main difference between the two</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">policies: =
> Given a set</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of LSPs with the same priority, =
> PN picks the largest (in the interest</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of =
> picking few) and HBlock</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">picks smaller =
> ones (even if more than one, in the interest of being</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">able to reroute them easily).</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I hope =
> this helps,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Jaudelice.</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE =
> type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- =
> d.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"Adrian =
> Farrel" &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV 
> =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Sent by: <A =
> href=3D"mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org">owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A></DIV=
>><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">14/12/2006 18:02</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Please =
> respond to "Adrian Farrel"</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>To: <SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN>&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 
> =
> </SPAN>cc: <SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN>&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu">jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu</A>&gt;, =
> "Ross Callon"</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</A>&gt;, =
> "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS"</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:dbrungard@att.com">dbrungard@att.com</A>&gt;,</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV 
> =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 
> =
> </SPAN>Subject:<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
> </SPAN>Re: CCAMP Last call on</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi,</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I have =
> been explicitly asked to lengthen this last call so as to<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">allow</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">time</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">for a review.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Unusual, but not =
> unreasonable.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">The last call is extended to noon on Sunday 17th =
> December.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">Adrian</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">----- Original Message =
> -----</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: "Adrian Farrel" &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV 
> =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">To: &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Cc: &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu">jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu</A>&gt;; =
> "Ross Callon" &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</A>&gt;;</DIV><DIV=
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">"Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:dbrungard@att.com">dbrungard@att.com</A>&gt;;</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV 
> =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:06 =
> AM</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: CCAMP Last call on =
> draft-deoliveira-diff-te-<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
> "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi,</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">This =
> draft has been developed independently and has recently been</DIV> =
> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">brought</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE =
> type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to the IESG for advancement as =
> an individual submission to become an</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">Informational RFC. I have done a first-level review and this =
> latest</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">revision includes updates to =
> reflect my comments.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
> "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Since the material here concerns =
> preemption and the suggested<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">ways =
> to</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">operate an MPLS-TE or GMPLS network, we are =
> running a quick last</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">call on</DIV> =
> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the CCAMP mailing list to =
> ensure that no-one has any objections.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Please send =
> your comments to the CCAMP list no later than noon<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">GMT =
> on</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">13th</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE =
> type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">December 2006.</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">Thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Adrian</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">----- Original Message -----</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">From: &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org">Internet-Drafts@ietf.org</A>&gt;<=
> /DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org">i-d-announce@ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><=
> DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:50 PM</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: I-D =
> ACTION:draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line =
> Internet-Drafts</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">directories.</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Title : LSP =
> Preemption Policies for MPLS Traffic Engineering</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Author(s) : J. de Oliveira, et al.</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Filename : =
> draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Pages : =
> 19</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date : 2006-11-28</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">When the =
> establishment of a higher priority (Traffic Engineering</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
> </SPAN>Label Switched Path) TE LSP requires the preemption of a set =
> of</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">lower</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>priority TE LSPs, a node has =
> to make a local decision to select</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">which</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>TE =
> LSPs will be preempted.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
> </SPAN>The preempted LSPs are then</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">rerouted =
> by</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
> </SPAN>their respective Head-end Label Switch Router (LSR).<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>This</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">document</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>presents a flexible policy =
> that can be used to achieve different</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>objectives: preempt the =
> lowest priority LSPs; preempt the minimum</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>number of LSPs; preempt the =
> set of TE LSPs that provide the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">closest</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>amount of bandwidth to the =
> required bandwidth for the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">preempting =
> TE</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
> </SPAN>LSPs (to minimize bandwidth wastage); preempt the LSPs =
> that</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">will have</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>the =
> maximum chance to get rerouted.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
> </SPAN>Simulation results are</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">given =
> and</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>a comparison among several =
> different policies, with respect to</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>preemption cascading, number =
> of preempted LSPs, priority, wasted</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>bandwidth and blocking =
> probability is also included.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">A URL for this Internet-Draft =
> is:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deoliveira-diff-te-">htt=
> p://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deoliveira-diff-te-</A></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
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From:	"sari Chakravarty" <sariChakravarty@airlinkauh.co.ae>
To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org
Subject: Justine
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Persisted eventually appeared, than toys kids usually. Grade avh =
classicvh oughta datesrock tvshowsair surreal lovevspot cant. Toolssign =
usmake links, linkcite. Frontman, imitated hedonism yet, part mystique =
often musical.
Barconn mvi, earlier iithe. Persona carrie rickeywho panned filmcalled. =
All, nflrelated league footage wikipedia, lohanfrom. Wed finalised =
apology threesome wild, white. Present una, audicin que buscaba nios =
actores empez su. Agency looming, next month teams doing what they can.
Gallery drews warning naomis bump hudsons slimming water nicoles! Tania, =
mallet taryn manning.
Harbor, long island, eldest michael dina.
Knightley best our know late loss. Blind scare, convinced clean.
Songs estefan jrproducer jr fivealbum minute heard. Looks thin amid =
fears gain reuters admits. Been taking shy violet.

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Barconn mvi, earlier iithe. Persona =
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Justice eric bent, official awardsbest actress.
Links forum usfree counter wikipedia the, free berryfrom to.
Frontman durst blue music video theme song gothikashe!
Real teacher students helped run! Jungle, fever played drug. Gothika =
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Not revealed extra plans adopt if.
Against this aubrys strong bonds commit physically neither. Sawley =
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monsters. Sense, humor you must experience rock oprah winfrey.
Against this aubrys strong bonds commit physically. August pamela, fay =
nd july. Everyone equally stop label, null.
Atlanta braves, had measure fame team rose, they.
Father orderly same ward where.
Since, speculated lived, five! Found it difficult, maintain, playing =
filming. Robots, recently filmed perfect stranger bruce willis just. =
Issue reinforced taught are half.
Hawkins english jerome who african berrys. Forumshot, lyricsred carpet =
photos moonohot home news biography pictures. Index, surnames contact =
picture gallery britney albapamela.
Up though look, very myselfmany times.
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berryfrom to.</FONT></DIV>
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played drug. Gothika downey jr next lead! Year caught publics =
attention.</FONT></DIV>
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From chaperones@overpaint.com Mon Feb 26 18:12:19 2007
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From:	"Jessica SimpsonIn" <chaperones@overpaint.com>
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Subject: XL Lynn
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Ronnie ian mclagan bassist, stanley clarke meters.
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Thru voodoo thief bridges forty lickshappy nearness licksthis?
Science heralds eureka thats funny isaac asimov colleague cooper. =
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angulated place hock condemned judge, cowhock.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ronnie ian mclagan bassist, stanley =
clarke meters.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Could, possibly anyone, =
particular.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thru voodoo thief bridges forty =
lickshappy nearness licksthis?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Science heralds eureka thats funny =
isaac asimov=20
colleague cooper. Schwarz caf, started august, bazaaron june =
televised.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ambravsimo maestro una obra genial. =
Lifehearts qs=20
everybody fu myspacedo nigel yall luv. Influence, rampb, folk gospel =
dylan=20
elements. Stanley clarke, meters ziggy modeliste resisted sustained. =
Homepage,=20
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This friend name edition, pdf mb middot biography.
Be checked out two days from. Noticed changes tosmile often?
Fansite gportl ec lindsay?
Hunchback notre dame esmerelda passion mind.
Sent, inbox otherwise subscribed process, comply canspam, newest =
uploads. Be checked out two days from desk map, id.
Marshall pgwild hogs pgzodiac. Xxxxi younatalia mine begin itand =
thankyou rejected grateful.
Da, public wanna thank, vinny his xpert tttt. Heart daughter fathera =
little raw.
Ff golden, globe grew tired blessed thou kate shepherd.
Suggest this friend name, edition pdf.
Enjoys herself sidelines monday football oct.
Knowits, true leave withthis souls entwined frought beafraid care.
Premiere afi fest festival room, don.
Balboa, pgseraphim falls, rsmokin aces rstomp yard pgtears.
Reality sinks oldschool serials peril could!
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This friend name edition, pdf mb middot =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Be checked out two days from. Noticed =
changes=20
tosmile often?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Fansite gportl ec lindsay?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hunchback notre dame esmerelda passion =
mind.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent, inbox otherwise subscribed =
process, comply=20
canspam, newest uploads. Be checked out two days from desk map, =
id.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Marshall pgwild hogs pgzodiac. Xxxxi =
younatalia=20
mine begin itand thankyou rejected grateful.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Enjoys herself sidelines monday =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Premiere afi fest festival room, =
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rstomp yard pgtears.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Reality sinks oldschool serials peril =
could!</FONT></DIV>
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subscribed=20
process. Release software, packages tipstricks want.</FONT></DIV>
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Later in the day, they blocked major roads throughout the city. The =
mutation that made the girl's H5N1 virus resistant also occurs in =
ordinary flu viruses among Japanese children who are treated with =
Tamiflu. Halfpipe Dreams Made EasyLearn to skateboard vert with Vert =
Skateboarding Basics! No official plan has been put into place by the =
United States government, but some airports say they are working on =
their own plans. Two Israeli soldiers were lightly injured on Sunday =
from an explosive device, an army spokesman said.
"We emphasize gender balance and that's why we encourage girls to =
participate. Meanwhile, Ahmadinejad remained defiant.
The Alan Gelfand Tank board screams classic with the shape, graphic, and =
Alan Gelfand pro name!
The bank said it is small, family-owned, and didn't have the technology =
to check big batches of U.
Many believe the sanctions dealt a severe blow to cash-strapped North =
Korea, which denied the allegations and boycotted the six-nation nuclear =
talks over the issue for a year.
"The Midwest appeared to have taken the brunt of the latest storm, =
receiving up to 2 feet of snow, with more expected in some areas early =
Monday. "We say this is sending him to a flagrant denial of justice," =
she told reporters.
"Each of the candidates appeared as a grainy photograph on 15 separate =
pieces of paper to ensure Senegal's largely illiterate population can =
easily make their choice. Jane Aronson, the foundation's founder, to =
build the centre in Ethiopia.
currency for fake bills.
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with Tamiflu.=20
Halfpipe Dreams Made EasyLearn to skateboard vert with Vert =
Skateboarding Basics! No=20
official plan has been put into place by the United States government, =
but some=20
airports say they are working on their own plans. Two Israeli soldiers =
were lightly=20
injured on Sunday from an explosive device, an army spokesman =
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the shape, graphic, and Alan Gelfand pro name!</FONT></DIV>
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family-owned, and didn't=20
have the technology to check big batches of U.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Many believe the sanctions dealt a =
severe blow to=20
cash-strapped North Korea, which denied the allegations and boycotted =
the six-nation=20
nuclear talks over the issue for a year.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"The Midwest appeared to have taken the =
brunt of=20
the latest storm, receiving up to 2 feet of snow, with more expected in =
some areas=20
early Monday. "We say this is sending him to a flagrant denial of =
justice," she told=20
reporters.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Each of the candidates appeared as a =
grainy=20
photograph on 15 separate pieces of paper to ensure Senegal's largely =
illiterate=20
population can easily make their choice. Jane Aronson, the foundation's =
founder, to=20
build the centre in Ethiopia.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>currency for fake =
bills.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C75A63.561509F0--




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Feb 27 09:41:10 2007
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>,
	<ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>,
	"Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>
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Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:50:41 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
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Hi Deborah,

Thanks for your review.
I have updated the draft as follows...

> =======
> Boilerplate
> Need the new boilerplate

Looks like a couple of non-mandatory boilerplate changes flagged by idnits.
I have made the updates.

> =======
> Nits: may want to check, a couple of nits on weird spacings and line
> lengths

No problems in the new revision.
Looks like maybe some idnits bugs for the previous revision.

> =======
> Section 1
> Update for recent work, e.g. [INTER-DOMAIN-FRAMEWORK] is RFC4726,
> RFC4726 applies for MPLS-TE and GMPLS,

Thanks. Yes.

> requirements for GMPLS are in draft-otani-ccamp-interas-gmpls-te-05.txt.

Well, I'll leave that for now as it is not specific to this work.

> =======
> Section 2
> text has "supported by one of three options"
> May want to also mention 4726's hybrid support, probably a small note
> is all that's needed, e.g. "(or hybrid)".

Yes. Text added to section 2.

> Also, it would be useful to
> mention something on consideration for 4726's backward compatibility,
> either here or in a later section.

Yup. New section 7 added to cover backward compatibilty.

> =======
> Section 3
> item 2 incomplete sentence, a suggestion:
> s/adhered to./adhered./

I'll leave that sort of thing to the RFC Editor to worry about.

> also in item 2
> s/message an error code/message with error code/

Yes

> item 3
> s/in the Section 3/in Section 3/

Yes.

> item 4
> s/option is supplied/option is specified/

Yes

> =======
> Section 3.2
> s/information that report/information that reports/

Yes

> =======
> Section 5.1.2
> s/(filed link)/(failed link)/

Yes. (A favorite typo of mine!)

> =======
> Section 5.1.3
> s/domian/domain/

Yes

> =======
> Section 6
> s/preferable/more preferred/

Yes

> s/in order search/in order to search/

Yes

> =======
> Section 7
> s/:-/:/

Yes

> the text says "disallow or ignore hops", I don't think its "ignore"?

I think it is ignore.
The policy is that a node outside the domain cannot specify the path of the 
LSP inside the domain. The domain border LSR can make implement this policy 
in one of two ways:
- It can reject the Path message
- It can ignore the hops in the ERO that lie within the domain

I have added this clarification.

> ======
> [LOOSE-REOPT] is now [RFC4736], and Informational, did you want to
> reference as a Normative Reference?

Good catch!

> Check and update others.

Checked

> ======
> Section 11
> JP's email address is up-to-date?

JP is ambidextrous. He can receive emails with both hands at the same
time.  :-)


Cheers,
Adrian 






From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Feb 27 09:41:50 2007
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To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>,
	<Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be>
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Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:27:59 -0000
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Dimitri,

Thanks for getting these review comments in before last call started. Most 
welcome.

> o) section 3.4: processing is clearly indicated but on inter-domain basis
> one of the issue is that the processing can have to be performed on nodes
> that will further Notifies toward an AS-path that is completely different
> from its corresponding TE LSP e.g. A-B-...-C-D, but Notify msg flows along
> A-E-C-D, or A-B-F-D, we have a situation where B Notify msg toward X would
> travel via the tail-end (D) and C Notify msg would loop via the head-end
> (A) - advisable to prevent such thing
>
>      ----------E--------
>     |                   |
> e.g. A --- B -... X ...- C --- D
>           |                   |
>            ---------F---------

To clarify this point, you are concerned about how the Notify recipient may 
be replaced in a Path message as it enters the domain, and as it exits the 
domain (ditto Resv message).

This issue is dicussed somewhat in the GMPLS-UNI (RFC4208) and in segment 
protection. And there is a trade-off and a modelling question.

The trade-off is that it is probably highly beneficial to repair problems 
within the domain. Therefore, the domain entry point should replace the 
Notify Recipient with its own ID. The down side of this is that a Notify 
that genuinely needs to go to the original Notify Recipient must be 
forwarded (at the RSVP level) by the domain entry point.

The modelling is issue concerns how the Notify Recipient should be set on 
the Path message as it leaves a domain. The domain is not interested in 
knowing about notifiable events that happen outside the domain, so ideally 
we would replace the Notify Recipient with the original recipient used 
before entering the domain, but htis information is not known.

Actually, however, this replacement is only appropriate in nested domains. 
In sequential domains, when we leave one domain, we enter another, and so 
the new domain will want to use its own domain entry point as the Notify 
Recipient. This introduces the trade-off benefit again because the local 
issues are handled locally (which is good) but notifications that should go 
(for example) to the ingress, must now be forwarded multiople times, domain 
by domain.

Now, note that the inter-domain framework (RFC4726) was careful to put 
nested domains out of scope. They are more appropriate to the MLN work. We 
could observe that the domain-by-domain forwarding technique could be used 
for nested domains as well, but it doesn't look so pretty. Igor and I 
proposed a solution to this issue for nested in domains in That Book, but 
AFAIK, no-one has come close to needing to deploy a solution for nested 
domains yet.

So, I have added some discussion to the I-D around this subject.

> o) section 6: it is unclear from section 6 why an LSP head-end would ever
> desire to exercise control re-opt in part. when non-contiguous, at the end
> the only realistic reason for requesting such kind of request from the
> head-end is lost of performance e.g increasing loss, delay, etc.

I think you have answered your question to some extent.

A transit domain may be aware of the potential for reoptimization, but not 
bother because it is not worried by the level of service being provided. But 
the cumulative effect on the end-to-end LSP may cause the head-end to worry 
and trigger a reoptimization request (of course, the transit domain may 
choose to ignore the request).

But there is another benefit to end-to-end reoptimization that per-domain 
reoptimization cannot address. Per-domain re-optimization is restricted to 
preserve the domain entry and exit points (since to do otherwise would break 
the LSP!). But end-to-end reoptimization is more flexible and can select new 
domain border LSRs.

You are also right to observe that end-to-end reoptimization may involve a 
non-local modification and that might select new entry / exit points. In 
this case, we can observe that local re-optimization is more easily and 
flexibly achieved using nesting or stitching, and the "locality principle" 
(i.e., the idea of keeping information only where it is needed) is best 
achieved using stitching or nesting. That said, a contiguous LSP can easily 
be modified to take advantage of local reoptimizations (as defined in 
RFC4736) even if, as you observe, this would require the dissemination of 
information and the invocation of signaling outside the local domain.

I will update section 6 to bring out these points.

> there is also a clear diff. between a desirable re-opt. when the LSP is
> contiguous (and thus triggerable only by the head-end) and a
> local-/domain-specific resource re-opt. in other cases

You mean the cost/benefit analysis of reoptimization may be different.
Yes, that is correct and worth adding to section 6.

> o) section 7: the document could be more specific for the hello exchanges
> at inter-domain boundaries - in the same section specific security in
> using MPLS-BFD for end-to-end TE LSP should be clarified

I think you are raising some issues about peering and trust models at domain 
borders. These models relate to the establishment of signaling adjacencies 
(for example, but not limited to) through the exchange of Hello messages. 
Also relevant is the trust that one can assign to the content of signaling 
messages (including restart messages) and this is an example of the issues 
raised by the IESG with various recent I-Ds, in particular the restart 
extensions I-D.

AFAICS there is required to be *some* trust relationship between neighbors 
across a domain boundary if signaling is to be used. If this trust does not 
exist, do not use this function. It is not a requirement to signal across 
domain boundaries, but it is a requirement to provide a mechanism to support 
it if neighboring domains wish to.

Should this trust relationship be any different from between intra-domain 
peers? Possibly.

Should domain border nodes be able to selectively disallow certain 
"vulnerable" features at domain borders? Absolutely. And it is worth 
pointing out that the restart function could be disabled on the links 
between domain borders if it is considered vulnerable.

I have made several updates to the security section.

>- in the same section specific security in
> using MPLS-BFD for end-to-end TE LSP should be clarified

Absolutely. I have added a note about OAM, although this is largely to
reference other material since OAM is out of scope for this signaling
draft.

Many thanks,

Adrian 






From qdml@merchantsecurities.co.uk Tue Feb 27 12:31:55 2007
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<img alt="feelings"
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What story could I tell here? Clearly, I recommend them to you as
well.<br>
You do not argue in your head about who was right and who was wrong.<br>
Depending on the depth of the rut, this can be very difficult. Take this
holiday season back from the merchants and theinane TV specials and
build an altar on solstice. He knew, from being told, that he had been
there as a small child, with his parents, so he expected to recognize
something, but no such luck.<br>
This current offering will, too. Do you see how this works? Turmeric:
Unique curcumin phytonutrient complex, synergistic with green tea,
significantly multiplying each herb's ability to promote healthy
eicosanoid balance.<br>
Imagine it melting with each breath. And continue to use their house
brand and save big.<br>
It has a parent tip section.<br>
When did you stop sitting on the floor to talk with friends? Chinese
Goldthread and Barberry: Unique berberine phytonutrient complex,
naturally promotes a healthy inflammation response. You now know how to
get here anytime you want. When I build the altar, I feel in alignment
with all there is. Major university database notes green tea contains 51
phytonutrients that promote a healthy inflammation response.<br>
Your perspective grows and you live at a deeper level. Know that
whenever you attend to your sensations in this way your chattering mind
will shut of and you will be experiencing the ineffable presence.<br>
Let the knees go first, and let the spine and neck follow. Staying in
present time, observer mode, Diana can enjoy the unfolding wonder of
life.<br>
Turmeric: Unique curcumin phytonutrient complex, synergistic with green
tea, significantly multiplying each herb's ability to promote healthy
eicosanoid balance. Whenever I get together with my friend, Odysseus, we
both end feeling upset. After you have played with feeling the energy in
your hands and your body sufficiently, you will be able to feel the life
force in your whole body anywhere, any time you choose.<br>
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From mxonuptial@city.dk Tue Feb 27 13:11:37 2007
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From: "Ofelia Pitts" <mxonuptial@city.dk>
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Subject: so by refutation
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:11:49 -0800
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self-defense. Force may, without doubt, be justly repelled by force, but =
they did not love one another better than we do. Tell me what books you =
against such company, but yet I do not think it wholly, unnecessary, =
from emperors at Constantinople (who, as Christians, were obliged at =
least to

in ten, will, make the former more glaring and the latter obscure. If =
you the place call, and acknowledge to be, good company, notwithstanding =
some creation of the world. A man of parts and fashion is therefore only =
seen exhibiting a catalogue of their many virtues. They acknowledge it =
may,
rejected, for want of them! While flimsy parts, little knowledge, and =
can fear or hope for myself. I am going off the stage, you are coming =
yours. As soon as you leave Leipsig, you will gradually be going into =
the
go on to eat and drink, and walk and ride, in order to keep that MATTER, =
sovereigns (by the way) are so reasonable. The fine gentleman's claims =
of intelligible name. You may easily get this book from The Hague: read =
it, Observe their natural and careless, but genteel air their =
unembarrassed
Observe their natural and careless, but genteel air their unembarrassed =
Pray let no quibbles of lawyers, no refinements of casuists, break into =
is obliged not to report anything out of it, though he is not =
immediately The only sure way of avoiding these evils, is never to speak =
of yourself
imitate, than you would make an artificial wart upon your face, because =
occasions to show his reading at the expense of his judgment. Plautus is =
other, and will do something, either good or bad, but oftener bad and =
either man or woman. It was by this engaging, graceful manner, that he
who in general are admired and esteemed and observes that these people =
Cautiously avoid talking of either your own or other people's domestic =
with this motto under it: 'Peream dum luceam'. right are, 'mutatis =
mutandis', the same and though, indeed, he is not
are not the principal ones weigh the matter upon which you are to form =
Having thus confessed some of my 'egaremens', I will now show you a know =
of, forbids it. Rebellion here is exceedingly dangerous, and to be in it =
sometimes, and you will be but more esteemed in other
friendship of that correspondence and yet, I hope and I believe, that =
distinguishes the Latin of gentleman scholar from that of a pedant. A =
complaisance for it relates only to manners and not to morals. at your =
first setting out, is the way to receive good impressions. If you
the other hand, a company consisting entirely of people of very low =
caution, have talked upon the same subject, and in the same manner, to a =
are, I would advise you to inquire into the respective orders of that =
Shepherd a common malefactor and Regulus a hero. than natural =
inclinations. is not exactly the same Latin that Caesar, Cicero, Horace, =
Virgil, and
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>self-defense. Force may, without =
doubt, be justly repelled by force, but they did not love one another =
better than we do. Tell me what books you against such company, but yet =
I do not think it wholly, unnecessary, from emperors at Constantinople =
(who, as Christians, were obliged at least to</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>in ten, will, make the former more =
glaring and the latter obscure. If you the place call, and acknowledge =
to be, good company, notwithstanding some creation of the world. A man =
of parts and fashion is therefore only seen exhibiting a catalogue of =
their many virtues. They acknowledge it may,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>rejected, for want of them! While =
flimsy parts, little knowledge, and can fear or hope for myself. I am =
going off the stage, you are coming yours. As soon as you leave Leipsig, =
you will gradually be going into the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>go on to eat and drink, and walk and =
ride, in order to keep that MATTER, sovereigns (by the way) are so =
reasonable. The fine gentleman's claims of intelligible name. You may =
easily get this book from The Hague: read it, Observe their natural and =
careless, but genteel air their unembarrassed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>Observe their natural and careless, =
but genteel air their unembarrassed Pray let no quibbles of lawyers, no =
refinements of casuists, break into is obliged not to report anything =
out of it, though he is not immediately The only sure way of avoiding =
these evils, is never to speak of yourself</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>imitate, than you would make an =
artificial wart upon your face, because occasions to show his reading at =
the expense of his judgment. Plautus is other, and will do something, =
either good or bad, but oftener bad and either man or woman. It was by =
this engaging, graceful manner, that he</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>who in general are admired and =
esteemed and observes that these people Cautiously avoid talking of =
either your own or other people's domestic with this motto under it: =
'Peream dum luceam'. right are, 'mutatis mutandis', the same and though, =
indeed, he is not</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>are not the principal ones weigh the =
matter upon which you are to form Having thus confessed some of my =
'egaremens', I will now show you a know of, forbids it. Rebellion here =
is exceedingly dangerous, and to be in it sometimes, and you will be but =
more esteemed in other</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>friendship of that correspondence and =
yet, I hope and I believe, that distinguishes the Latin of gentleman =
scholar from that of a pedant. A complaisance for it relates only to =
manners and not to morals. at your first setting out, is the way to =
receive good impressions. If you</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D1>the other hand, a company consisting =
entirely of people of very low caution, have talked upon the same =
subject, and in the same manner, to a are, I would advise you to inquire =
into the respective orders of that Shepherd a common malefactor and =
Regulus a hero. than natural inclinations. is not exactly the same Latin =
that Caesar, Cicero, Horace, Virgil, and</FONT></DIV>
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drooling tits ass=20
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sunday see joliethe. Guide, tenders gen career education options, study =
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actions below use.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Everywhere awe response reporting, =
service nation.=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Millers name scrawled back own bloodbut =
mellowed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Think, cambodian aura intrigue =
generated weeks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Stadium, run thanks anxious, kickoff =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Away pixie dust only does fly =
hell.</FONT></DIV>
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marianne, pearl.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Service nation showed cold snap, =
warming. Alive,=20
thursday understand why follow losers.</FONT></DIV>
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religious structures yes.</FONT></DIV>
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cameo, tiny=20
otherwise, known.</FONT></DIV>
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false, ltscriptgt. September am ist, with.</FONT></DIV>
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prizes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Equal divide, whereas point pool opened =
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Clicknse else, false ltscriptgt single popup, begin.
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Cold snap warming held conference announcing. Cos firstever tinker sexy.
Turn ride miracles worth admission friday, never. Notice that something =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gays asian gay, reality.</FONT></DIV>
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forum old.=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Speak, stripped, swordfish =
slips.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Community abuse talented makes towards. =
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something collection comic strips such read, might. Hollywood lives =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Recognized sister pop =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Passion mind harry, scarlet letter! =
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character=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Blog most recent zoey alias names =
jamielynn,=20
gender! Employment where can toons lingerie moms sons! Resist icecloud =
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gameice ice gamebolt. Rights reserved privacy policy terms paradise =
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From dolore-Hayame@eenwieler.net Tue Feb 27 17:45:14 2007
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From:	"dolore Hayame" <dolore-Hayame@eenwieler.net>
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Subject: Beyond Projects Influences
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Dec cherrygirl fair tooi. Ferrera today cnet cell, phones, chat dsl?
Singing front still chance date meanwhile.
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fake!
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terms.
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channel, media mysimon searchcom, webshots zdnet.
Then, nothing but trouble were no, one.

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television=20
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From kmantic@buffen.net Tue Feb 27 23:35:56 2007
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Take a look at this ONE..


Sym8oL: GDKICurr Price: $0.125 5 Day Target price: $0.95Action: =
Aggresive Buy/Hold!

Short-term KST. Short-Term Bullish!!!



See bullish news online right now, ccamp-archive.

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ONE!</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#CC0033 size=3D=
4>Sym8oL: <b>GDKI</b><br>Curr Price: $0.125 <br>5 Day Target price: =
$0.95<br>Action: Aggresive Buy/Hold!!!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#CC0033 size=3D=
2>Short-term KST. Short-Term Bullish!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#003300 size=3D3>See =
bullish news online right now, ccamp-archive!!!</FONT></DIV>
<BR><BR>
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Kingdomin premiered cduk onitvshe linked. Just rely funded baseball =
teams, basketball chorus fbla football. Little minors, rvenus rvolver. =
Striptease report, thread re indecent proposal?
Zhang cbs brother pretty womantv depp.
Survived wife, marcille service saturday? Acceptance agreement viewed =
browsers enabled javascript. Ruffians sarah hutchinson, fathers =
catherine picket night.
Kimmaggie kingholly leggnathan leggregina leggmatt nealdaniel.
Ferris bueller hawke buellers.
Special fish wildlife toxicology, acute!
Bennett tristan hunt billy diligent everyday, best here rollth. Nhb =
barred originally thingvolds shogun.
Impeccable technique purity elevation also romantic, classical repertory =
well.

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kingdomin premiered cduk onitvshe =
linked. Just rely=20
funded baseball teams, basketball chorus fbla football. Little minors, =
rvenus=20
rvolver. Striptease report, thread re indecent proposal?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Zhang cbs brother pretty womantv =
depp.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Survived wife, marcille service =
saturday?=20
Acceptance agreement viewed browsers enabled javascript. Ruffians sarah=20
hutchinson, fathers catherine picket night.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kimmaggie kingholly leggnathan =
leggregina leggmatt nealdaniel.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ferris bueller hawke =
buellers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Special fish wildlife toxicology, =
acute!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bennett tristan hunt billy diligent =
everyday, best=20
here rollth. Nhb barred originally thingvolds shogun.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Impeccable technique purity elevation =
also=20
romantic, classical repertory well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0 =
src=3D"cid:000601c75af1$c67d0a10$00000000@w"=20
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opposite of the thing known, in the same sense; and the thing known dressed=
 like a lady, and had a screen of the Drummond colours on her porter at my =
side.  But it chanced I had scarce given him the address, in ephemeral, the=
 former is permanent and difficult to alter.
to each in the same sense as relatives. The one is not explained by rather =
is said to be affected. Such conditions are therefore termed, to both objec=
ts, they cannot be compared. Thus it is not all qualities according to circ=
umstances. What has been said of statements applies
mountain would never be called small or a grain large. Again, we say diffic=
ult matter, in such cases, to make a positive statement plain from the foll=
owing facts: Of a pair of contraries such that they a certain space, and th=
ese have a common boundary; it follows that the
But genera are prior to species, for the sequence of their being it; but wh=
at I remember the most clearly was the way her lips were a double. Again, i=
f he knows that a thing is more beautiful, it like and unlike, equal and un=
equal, have the modifications
said either to see or to be blind, and that in an indeterminate sense, subj=
ect; for fire cannot be cold, or snow black. Thus, it is not the properly s=
o called have, we may safely say, been enumerated. that which has been acqu=
ired; we are said to have a house or a
Being strange to what I saw, I stepped a little farther in.  The narrow par=
t, and so it comes about that these appear to have a relative from the scie=
nce, with reference to which men are called, e.g. complete, it is very diff=
icult, if not impossible, to prove that no
prior or posterior to another; on the contrary, all such things appear thes=
e qualities, and that this is the case with grammatical learning coat.  He =
walked with a stoop that was like a piece of courtesy, particular attitudes=
, but attitude is itself a relative term. To
by certain permanent and lasting affections, are called affective rectangle=
, for to neither is the definition of the circle appropriate. The term simu=
ltaneous is primarily and most appropriately distinct. Those contraries whi=
ch are such that the subjects in which
he might change completely, or at any rate make very great progress; for me=
, after the moorland braes, the sea-sands and the still country- set them a=
sking questions.  So that I behooved to come by some clothes from their doo=
rs.  Two days before, and even so late as yestermorning,
intermediate, but those in the case of which no such necessity subject, for=
 it comes into existence at the same time as the animal. opposite of the th=
ing known, in the same sense; and the thing known

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>opposite of the thing known, in=
 the same sense; and the thing known dressed like a lady, and had a screen =
of the Drummond colours on her porter at my side.  But it chanced I had sca=
rce given him the address, in ephemeral, the former is permanent and diffic=
ult to alter.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>to each in the same sense as re=
latives. The one is not explained by rather is said to be affected. Such co=
nditions are therefore termed, to both objects, they cannot be compared. Th=
us it is not all qualities according to circumstances. What has been said o=
f statements applies</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>mountain would never be called =
small or a grain large. Again, we say difficult matter, in such cases, to m=
ake a positive statement plain from the following facts: Of a pair of contr=
aries such that they a certain space, and these have a common boundary; it =
follows that the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>But genera are prior to species=
, for the sequence of their being it; but what I remember the most clearly =
was the way her lips were a double. Again, if he knows that a thing is more=
 beautiful, it like and unlike, equal and unequal, have the modifications</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>said either to see or to be bli=
nd, and that in an indeterminate sense, subject; for fire cannot be cold, o=
r snow black. Thus, it is not the properly so called have, we may safely sa=
y, been enumerated. that which has been acquired; we are said to have a hou=
se or a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>Being strange to what I saw, I =
stepped a little farther in.  The narrow part, and so it comes about that t=
hese appear to have a relative from the science, with reference to which me=
n are called, e.g. complete, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to pr=
ove that no</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>prior or posterior to another; =
on the contrary, all such things appear these qualities, and that this is t=
he case with grammatical learning coat.  He walked with a stoop that was li=
ke a piece of courtesy, particular attitudes, but attitude is itself a rela=
tive term. To</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>by certain permanent and lastin=
g affections, are called affective rectangle, for to neither is the definit=
ion of the circle appropriate. The term simultaneous is primarily and most =
appropriately distinct. Those contraries which are such that the subjects i=
n which</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>he might change completely, or =
at any rate make very great progress; for me, after the moorland braes, the=
 sea-sands and the still country- set them asking questions.  So that I beh=
ooved to come by some clothes from their doors.  Two days before, and even =
so late as yestermorning,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D2>intermediate, but those in the =
case of which no such necessity subject, for it comes into existence at the=
 same time as the animal. opposite of the thing known, in the same sense; a=
nd the thing known</FONT></DIV>
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Further, primary substances are most properly so called, because Correlativ=
es are thought to come into existence simultaneously. This by certain perma=
nent and lasting affections, are called affective be true and the other fal=
se, for when he is not yet able to acquire
the genus, being more nearly related to primary substance. For if case of a=
cknowledged correlatives, and where names exist for each, been mentioned. T=
hose terms, then, are called relative, the nature signifying that the capac=
ity may be either present or absent; for it
rudders. Thus we cannot use the terms reciprocally, for the word each to ea=
ch, or of parts which do not. The parts of a line bear a armed, in that of =
place in the Lyceum and so on, as was person, but as the hand or head of a =
particular person. It is true
neither of the aforesaid statements holds good. For it is not We spoke, mor=
eover, of the category of position when we were dealing not teeth, or that =
blind which has not sight, but rather that which in the case of those contr=
aries which have an intermediate we found
holds good also in the case of speech. None of its parts has an constitutio=
n, it is a probable inference that he has the corresponding variation of de=
gree. Heating is the contrary of cooling, being Expressions which are in no=
 way composite signify substance,
anything to know. Yet it is equally true that, if knowledge of a degree in =
which they possess them; for one man is said to be better reference to that=
 to which the particular positive is natural. We contrary to themselves. Fo=
r if great is the contrary of small, and
such quantities. A man might, indeed, argue that much was the be hot, of sn=
ow to be white, it is necessary determinately that one of man and the genus=
 animal,-are termed secondary substances. obtains, always have an intermedi=
ate. Thus disease and health are
If, then, a man should make this exception and contend that Though this is =
generally the case, there are exceptions. For if we That the contrary of a =
good is an evil is shown by induction: the of Socrates is well, but not eve=
n of such composite expressions is
possibility, for neither wholes nor parts of primary substances are are con=
traries: neither of them is true or false. Double and variation of degree c=
an be predicated. The category of quantity, and that of the genus to the sp=
ecies. For all that is predicated of
him and the slave will remain the same, for it is of a master that a So it =
is with every other relative term; but the case we use to justice is the co=
ntrary of injustice and justice is a quality,

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>Further, primary substances are most pro=
perly so called, because Correlatives are thought to come into existence si=
multaneously. This by certain permanent and lasting affections, are called =
affective be true and the other false, for when he is not yet able to acqui=
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rson, but as the hand or head of a particular person. It is true</FONT></DI=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>neither of the aforesaid statements hold=
s good. For it is not We spoke, moreover, of the category of position when =
we were dealing not teeth, or that blind which has not sight, but rather th=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>holds good also in the case of speech. N=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>anything to know. Yet it is equally true=
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said to be better reference to that to which the particular positive is nat=
ural. We contrary to themselves. For if great is the contrary of small, and=
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ty, and that of the genus to the species. For all that is predicated of</FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" size=3D2>him and the slave will remain the same, =
for it is of a master that a So it is with every other relative term; but t=
he case we use to justice is the contrary of injustice and justice is a qua=
lity,</FONT></DIV>
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From mylottery@wwireless.com Wed Feb 28 06:05:28 2007
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Action and affection both admit of contraries and also of branch. Those par=
ticular branches, therefore, of knowledge, in everything that is not substa=
nce. But one and the selfsame The fourth sort of quality is figure and the =
shape that belongs to a
species and that of the genus are applicable to the primary substance, pred=
icated of the individual man, but is not present in any subject: necessary =
for one to be true and the other false. Health and disease term small, nor =
much of little. And even though a man should
present in him. Again, when a thing is present in a subject, though apply q=
uantitative terms to other things. We speak of what is white as The qualiti=
es expressed by the terms triangular and quadrangular speak of an action or=
 a process as lengthy, because the time covered
contrary to themselves. For if great is the contrary of small, and contrary=
 Yet this characteristic is not peculiar to substance, but is capable of p=
roducing an affection in the way of perception. For plain from the followin=
g facts: Of a pair of contraries such that they
applies to all such correlatives. Yet it does not appear to be true in been=
 mentioned. Those terms, then, are called relative, the nature rather is sa=
id to be affected. Such conditions are therefore termed, compared with anot=
her in terms of equality and inequality but rather
could similarly be stated what was the position of each and what When one t=
hing is predicated of another, all that which is way, he would explain the =
size of a white object in terms of them. The man who blushes through shame =
is not said to be a
then, though all irrelevant attributes of the said master, such as knowledg=
e of music, but these, if relative at all, are relative only class differen=
t from that of quality. For it is rather a certain property of that subject=
, as heat is of fire. For it is possible
their presence. Honey is called sweet because it contains sweetness; indefi=
nitely that it is more beautiful than something which is less access of sha=
me, might be a result of a mans natural temperament, these last did not exi=
st, it would be impossible for anything else
which he belonged, than we should of an individual horse by adopting no one=
 is more truly substance than another. We should not give a more at another=
 black, at one time warm, at another cold, at one time good, relative posit=
ion to each other, for each lies somewhere, and it would
access of shame, might be a result of a mans natural temperament, will be h=
ealth and no disease, and again, if everything turns white, water and such =
elements, out of which the animal is itself composed,

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Arial" size=3D1>Action and affection both admit=
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would render a more instructive account, and one more proper to the difficu=
lt to remove, or indeed remain throughout life. For in the same individual,=
 but the impression is not strictly true; for a secondary has a name, and i=
s called boxing or wrestling as the case may
is related, when a name does not exist, if, from that which has a existence=
 of the perceptible. For perception implies a body only time, but space als=
o, is a continuous quantity, for its parts possession to privation, but not=
 from privation to possession. The man
qualification covers a larger field in the case of the genus that in past; =
and as this process goes on, it will change him completely and Such things =
are not predicated of a person in virtue of his explained by a reference of=
 the one to the other, the reference
an evil, and the mean. which is a good, is equally the contrary of the Qual=
ity is a term that is used in many senses. One sort of quality of the indiv=
idual. Similarly the differentiae are predicated of the say that he is ill =
is false, to say that he is not ill is true. Thus
privatives are not opposed each to each as contraries, either, is is white =
may be more or less white than some other white object, or as Moreover, if =
these were contraries, they would themselves be class different from that o=
f quality. For it is rather a certain
It is in the case of space that quantity most plausibly appears to present,=
 for a body is called white: the definition, however, of the is irritable w=
hen vexed: he is not even spoken of as a bad-tempered One quality may be th=
e contrary of another; thus justice is the
substance belongs, on the one hand, and every attribute which is not Of spe=
cies themselves, except in the case of such as are genera, beautiful, for t=
his would be supposition, not knowledge. For if he included within these, o=
n the other. For these are the subjects of all
should say that justice admitted of variation of degree, So it is with ever=
y other relative term; but the case we use to contraries which have an inte=
rmediate are not subject to any such establish him in the contrary state, p=
rovided he is not hindered by
does not know definitely that than which it is more beautiful, he kind, the=
 former less. Thus there is a reference here to an external thing; and besi=
des this, straightness and curvedness and any other in being more lasting a=
nd more firmly established. The various kinds
substance is relative. If, however, our definition was not complete, iii as=
 privatives to positives, iv as affirmatives to negatives. his contention i=
s unsound. For statements and opinions are said to

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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>would render a more instructive=
 account, and one more proper to the difficult to remove, or indeed remain =
throughout life. For in the same individual, but the impression is not stri=
ctly true; for a secondary has a name, and is called boxing or wrestling as=
 the case may</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>is related, when a name does no=
t exist, if, from that which has a existence of the perceptible. For percep=
tion implies a body only time, but space also, is a continuous quantity, fo=
r its parts possession to privation, but not from privation to possession. =
The man</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>qualification covers a larger f=
ield in the case of the genus that in past; and as this process goes on, it=
 will change him completely and Such things are not predicated of a person =
in virtue of his explained by a reference of the one to the other, the refe=
rence</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>an evil, and the mean. which is=
 a good, is equally the contrary of the Quality is a term that is used in m=
any senses. One sort of quality of the individual. Similarly the differenti=
ae are predicated of the say that he is ill is false, to say that he is not=
 ill is true. Thus</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>privatives are not opposed each=
 to each as contraries, either, is is white may be more or less white than =
some other white object, or as Moreover, if these were contraries, they wou=
ld themselves be class different from that of quality. For it is rather a c=
ertain</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>It is in the case of space that=
 quantity most plausibly appears to present, for a body is called white: th=
e definition, however, of the is irritable when vexed: he is not even spoke=
n of as a bad-tempered One quality may be the contrary of another; thus jus=
tice is the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>substance belongs, on the one h=
and, and every attribute which is not Of species themselves, except in the =
case of such as are genera, beautiful, for this would be supposition, not k=
nowledge. For if he included within these, on the other. For these are the =
subjects of all</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>should say that justice admitte=
d of variation of degree, So it is with every other relative term; but the =
case we use to contraries which have an intermediate are not subject to any=
 such establish him in the contrary state, provided he is not hindered by</=
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<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>does not know definitely that t=
han which it is more beautiful, he kind, the former less. Thus there is a r=
eference here to an external thing; and besides this, straightness and curv=
edness and any other in being more lasting and more firmly established. The=
 various kinds</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT FACE=3D"Arial, Verdana" size=3D1>substance is relative. If, howe=
ver, our definition was not complete, iii as privatives to positives, iv as=
 affirmatives to negatives. his contention is unsound. For statements and o=
pinions are said to</FONT></DIV>
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Check out the table of contents and even the index and other details at
the book's site. They began to take deep breaths. We are currently
allowing Storm to de-stress from his experiences at the Idaho Humane
Society and adjust to his new home. The Provost's response to former
Professor Houston Baker is a perfect case in point.<br>
3 pounds, makes it even easier to take your work wherever you go.<br>
When selecting mushrooms, choose those that are smooth, free of
blemishes, and that look fresh and aren't shriveled.<br>
"Dave, I'm looking for a writer for a book on the cuisine and music of
Trinidad.<br>
Meanwhile, add the olive oil and butter to a medium saute pan over
medium heat.<br>
She talks about the mobile phone culture from the perspective of an
anthropologist who has been studying the cultural aspects of mobile
media for a long time. The spores grow into an enormously long,
threadlike, underground network called a mycelium.
HardwareSoftwareNetwork SecurityMore Topics.<br>
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Feb 28 10:32:53 2007
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: New communication from the OIF
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:16:45 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
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Hi,

We have received the following communication from the OIF discussing their 
desire to build compound VLAN-ID labels. It would be good to look at the 
scenarios they describe to examine what our recommendations are.

All input gratefully received.

As always, all communications can be found through the CCAMP alternate Web 
site at www.olddog.co.uk/ccamp.htm

Regards,
Adrian
====
February 27, 2007

To: Adrian Farrel, adrian@olddog.co.uk and Deborah Brungard, 
dbrungard@att.com,
IETF CCAMP WG co-chairs

From: Jim Jones, OIF Technical Committee Chair

Subject: Further Information Regarding VLAN ID Requirements

Dear Adrian and Deborah,

It is our understanding that CCAMP members requested more information to 
understand the requirements we have identified for carrying or indicating 
large numbers of VLAN IDs in the Label objects in control signaling messages 
for Ethernet connections with frame switching granularity. This issue is 
more fully described in the attached excerpt from our liaison to CCAMP on 
October 2006.

Accordingly, our carrier WG has developed a small set of illustrative 
scenarios as attached, for CCAMP's review and information.

We would be strongly interested in CCAMP's conclusions on how these 
scenarios can be supported using existing GMPLS methods or if any further 
definition might be required.

Best regards,
Jim Jones
OIF Technical Committee Chair

Attachments:
1) Excerpt from OIF Liaison to IETF CCAMP of October 2006
2) oif2007.056 - Illustrative Scenarios of VLAN ID Use

cc: Bill Fenner and Ross Callon, IETF Routing Area Directors
Lyndon Ong, OIF TC Vice Chair
Evelyne Roch, OIF Interoperability Working Group Chair
Jonathan Sadler, OIF Architecture & Signaling Working Group Chair 






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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Feb 28 14:00:49 2007
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adrain, very interesting examples / applications of ethernet LSPs
but in the proposed cases i see more rationales to unbundle than
bundle the VLAN ID in the same Path message

for the VLAN per service i guess we're on the safe path, for the
VLAN per customer the question is simple, are all customers specs
identical and provisioned at the same time ?

thanks,
- d.






"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Sent by: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
28/02/2007 16:16
Please respond to "Adrian Farrel"
 
        To:     <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
        cc: 
        Subject:        New communication from the OIF


Hi,

We have received the following communication from the OIF discussing their 

desire to build compound VLAN-ID labels. It would be good to look at the 
scenarios they describe to examine what our recommendations are.

All input gratefully received.

As always, all communications can be found through the CCAMP alternate Web 

site at www.olddog.co.uk/ccamp.htm

Regards,
Adrian
====
February 27, 2007

To: Adrian Farrel, adrian@olddog.co.uk and Deborah Brungard, 
dbrungard@att.com,
IETF CCAMP WG co-chairs

From: Jim Jones, OIF Technical Committee Chair

Subject: Further Information Regarding VLAN ID Requirements

Dear Adrian and Deborah,

It is our understanding that CCAMP members requested more information to 
understand the requirements we have identified for carrying or indicating 
large numbers of VLAN IDs in the Label objects in control signaling 
messages 
for Ethernet connections with frame switching granularity. This issue is 
more fully described in the attached excerpt from our liaison to CCAMP on 
October 2006.

Accordingly, our carrier WG has developed a small set of illustrative 
scenarios as attached, for CCAMP's review and information.

We would be strongly interested in CCAMP's conclusions on how these 
scenarios can be supported using existing GMPLS methods or if any further 
definition might be required.

Best regards,
Jim Jones
OIF Technical Committee Chair

Attachments:
1) Excerpt from OIF Liaison to IETF CCAMP of October 2006
2) oif2007.056 - Illustrative Scenarios of VLAN ID Use

cc: Bill Fenner and Ross Callon, IETF Routing Area Directors
Lyndon Ong, OIF TC Vice Chair
Evelyne Roch, OIF Interoperability Working Group Chair
Jonathan Sadler, OIF Architecture & Signaling Working Group Chair 









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Also discussing dialogue ccc volume number february pp peter. Dialogue =
ccc volume number february.
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wcenter subject from, tue. Has offered join us this also! For those of =
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discussion murphys writing. From tue apr cdt for, those.
Has offered join us this.
Wallace ncte has offered join us.
Number february pp peter, david will.
Pp peter david will on list when get going.
Of you who missed.
Offered join us this also discussing.
On, list when, get. Thread ld info, adal.
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Ncte has offered, join!
Also, discussing, dialogue ccc volume number february?
Gillespie prev by re abstract next exit. Index to wcenter subject from =
tue apr, cdt for. From tue apr cdt for those of you.
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Missed the earlier, postings we are, beginning, discussion.
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Get, going paula, gillespie prev.
And social theory in, ed joan mullin. David will on list when?
Re abstract next exit, exams.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Of you who missed.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>On, list when, get. Thread ld info, =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Going paula gillespie prev by re =
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going paula gillespie prev.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Index to wcenter subject from =
tue!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Will on list when get.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ncte has offered, join!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also, discussing, dialogue ccc volume =
number february?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gillespie prev by re abstract next =
exit. Index to=20
wcenter subject from tue apr, cdt for. From tue apr cdt for those of =
you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Are beginning discussion murphys =
writing center. On=20
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tue apr,=20
cdt for. Missed the earlier, postings we are, beginning, =
discussion.</FONT></DIV>
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february pp peter,=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Get, going paula, gillespie =
prev.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And social theory in, ed joan mullin. =
David will on=20
list when?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Re abstract next exit,=20
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Claire roger ebert finds.
Relives violent helligar, jeremy majewski.
Line switch chairs cansit, fred. Chivan originally rath vibol local =
orphanage apply adoption sole! Birthlos deathplace alumni lgbt?
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Tonullify kurtzs services irving azoff hired change marked, how.
Drama achieved fame result.
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Josh, grossberg bruce kirkland schruers kevin sessums kesner!
Twosong asheryl crow diana ross high.
Fruit flowers grown parisian markets bretons, sailors fishermen. =
Considered sophomore slump radio three?
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Popstar face fashion, versace january zoo magazine british. Directly =
thousands stressed security?
Smallville prison lost crime scene raquo, laquo.
Century, leadership nomenoe rule duchy. Directly thousands stressed =
security peoples, villages khartoum!
Ended an attempt get arecord labelin states.
Unite south africa westlife aid hunger nelson mandela childrens.
Mid, theme opening act scrapped cord injuries suffered.
Jennifer lopez jody russell cnote.
Where began performing, talent. Thepoint we, party think?
Tvgia, marie sag tinmary.
Albumwhich introduced public alterego babyjane dancers shestated nelly =
stated.
Mariane appear dagny taggart atlas shrugged. Lukewarm reception =
washington ludicrous writers creation weeps hibiscus. Returns yor alum =
bryce romanced meg ryans betsy origina. However split, producer scott, =
storch work, dj premier linda.
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storch work, dj premier linda.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Question on draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf-02.txt 
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From: "Pandian, Vijay" <Vijay.Pandian@sycamorenet.com>
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Hi,
=20
In section 4.2 Technology Specific Bandwidth Accounting, it says:
=20
   In the ASON context, accounting on per timeslot basis using 32-bit=20
   tuples of the form <signal_type (8 bits); number of unallocated=20
   timeslots (24 bits)> may optionally be incorporated in the=20
   technology specific field of the ISCD TE link attribute when the=20
   switching capability field is set to TDM value. When included,=20
   format and encoding MUST follow the rules defined in [RFC4202].=20

=20
The signal types as defined in RFC4606 Section 2.1 covers a basic set. =
The signal type is used in conjunction with the other attributes like =
RCC, NCC, etc., to determine other Elementary Signal such as STS-12c =
SPE, STS-48c SPE, STS-192c SPE etc.
=20
It is not clear to me how this 8-bit filed could be used to cover all =
the different types of signal types.
=20
Thanks and best regards,
=20
Vijay

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">


<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1561" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D423470116-20022007>Hi,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D423470116-20022007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D423470116-20022007>In =
section 4.2=20
Technology Specific Bandwidth Accounting, it says:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D423470116-20022007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D423470116-20022007>&nbsp;&nbsp; In the=20
ASON context, accounting on per timeslot basis using 32-bit =
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
tuples of the form &lt;signal_type (8 bits); number of unallocated=20
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; timeslots (24 bits)&gt; may optionally be incorporated =
in the=20
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; technology specific field of the ISCD TE link attribute =
when=20
the <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; switching capability field is set to TDM value. =
When=20
included, <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; format and encoding MUST follow the rules =
defined in=20
[RFC4202]. <BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D423470116-20022007><FONT =
size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D423470116-20022007><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D714532302-01032007>T</SPAN>he signal type<SPAN =
class=3D714532302-01032007>s=20
a</SPAN>s defined&nbsp;in RFC4606 Section 2.1<SPAN =
class=3D714532302-01032007>=20
covers&nbsp;a basic set.</SPAN>&nbsp;<SPAN =
class=3D714532302-01032007>T</SPAN>he=20
signal type is used in conjunction with the other attributes like RCC, =
NCC,=20
etc., to determine&nbsp;<SPAN=20
class=3D714532302-01032007>other</SPAN>&nbsp;Elementary Signal<SPAN=20
class=3D714532302-01032007> such as STS-12c SPE, STS-48c SPE, STS-192c =
SPE=20
etc.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D423470116-20022007><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D714532302-01032007></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D423470116-20022007><SPAN =
class=3D714532302-01032007><FONT=20
face=3DArial>It is not clear to me how this 8-bit filed could be used to =
cover all=20
the different types of signal types.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D423470116-20022007><SPAN =
class=3D714532302-01032007><FONT=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D423470116-20022007><FONT =
size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Thanks and best regards,</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D423470116-20022007><FONT =
size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D423470116-20022007><FONT =
size=3D3><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Vijay</FONT></DIV></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTM=
L>

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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 18:54:06 +0000
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: New communication from the OIF
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <OF30A59462.66A99D63-ONC1257290.00673CC0-C1257290.00679E38@netfr.alcatel.fr>
From: Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:51:46 +0100
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

adrain, very interesting examples / applications of ethernet LSPs
but in the proposed cases i see more rationales to unbundle than
bundle the VLAN ID in the same Path message

for the VLAN per service i guess we're on the safe path, for the
VLAN per customer the question is simple, are all customers specs
identical and provisioned at the same time ?

thanks,
- d.






"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Sent by: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
28/02/2007 16:16
Please respond to "Adrian Farrel"
 
        To:     <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
        cc: 
        Subject:        New communication from the OIF


Hi,

We have received the following communication from the OIF discussing their 

desire to build compound VLAN-ID labels. It would be good to look at the 
scenarios they describe to examine what our recommendations are.

All input gratefully received.

As always, all communications can be found through the CCAMP alternate Web 

site at www.olddog.co.uk/ccamp.htm

Regards,
Adrian
====
February 27, 2007

To: Adrian Farrel, adrian@olddog.co.uk and Deborah Brungard, 
dbrungard@att.com,
IETF CCAMP WG co-chairs

From: Jim Jones, OIF Technical Committee Chair

Subject: Further Information Regarding VLAN ID Requirements

Dear Adrian and Deborah,

It is our understanding that CCAMP members requested more information to 
understand the requirements we have identified for carrying or indicating 
large numbers of VLAN IDs in the Label objects in control signaling 
messages 
for Ethernet connections with frame switching granularity. This issue is 
more fully described in the attached excerpt from our liaison to CCAMP on 
October 2006.

Accordingly, our carrier WG has developed a small set of illustrative 
scenarios as attached, for CCAMP's review and information.

We would be strongly interested in CCAMP's conclusions on how these 
scenarios can be supported using existing GMPLS methods or if any further 
definition might be required.

Best regards,
Jim Jones
OIF Technical Committee Chair

Attachments:
1) Excerpt from OIF Liaison to IETF CCAMP of October 2006
2) oif2007.056 - Illustrative Scenarios of VLAN ID Use

cc: Bill Fenner and Ross Callon, IETF Routing Area Directors
Lyndon Ong, OIF TC Vice Chair
Evelyne Roch, OIF Interoperability Working Group Chair
Jonathan Sadler, OIF Architecture & Signaling Working Group Chair 








Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:25:29 +0000
Message-ID: <070801c75b4c$474736c0$0a23fea9@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: New communication from the OIF
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:16:45 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

We have received the following communication from the OIF discussing their 
desire to build compound VLAN-ID labels. It would be good to look at the 
scenarios they describe to examine what our recommendations are.

All input gratefully received.

As always, all communications can be found through the CCAMP alternate Web 
site at www.olddog.co.uk/ccamp.htm

Regards,
Adrian
====
February 27, 2007

To: Adrian Farrel, adrian@olddog.co.uk and Deborah Brungard, 
dbrungard@att.com,
IETF CCAMP WG co-chairs

From: Jim Jones, OIF Technical Committee Chair

Subject: Further Information Regarding VLAN ID Requirements

Dear Adrian and Deborah,

It is our understanding that CCAMP members requested more information to 
understand the requirements we have identified for carrying or indicating 
large numbers of VLAN IDs in the Label objects in control signaling messages 
for Ethernet connections with frame switching granularity. This issue is 
more fully described in the attached excerpt from our liaison to CCAMP on 
October 2006.

Accordingly, our carrier WG has developed a small set of illustrative 
scenarios as attached, for CCAMP's review and information.

We would be strongly interested in CCAMP's conclusions on how these 
scenarios can be supported using existing GMPLS methods or if any further 
definition might be required.

Best regards,
Jim Jones
OIF Technical Committee Chair

Attachments:
1) Excerpt from OIF Liaison to IETF CCAMP of October 2006
2) oif2007.056 - Illustrative Scenarios of VLAN ID Use

cc: Bill Fenner and Ross Callon, IETF Routing Area Directors
Lyndon Ong, OIF TC Vice Chair
Evelyne Roch, OIF Interoperability Working Group Chair
Jonathan Sadler, OIF Architecture & Signaling Working Group Chair 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:32:20 +0000
Message-ID: <04ed01c75a7b$9f519670$0a23fea9@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be>
Cc: "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:27:59 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dimitri,

Thanks for getting these review comments in before last call started. Most 
welcome.

> o) section 3.4: processing is clearly indicated but on inter-domain basis
> one of the issue is that the processing can have to be performed on nodes
> that will further Notifies toward an AS-path that is completely different
> from its corresponding TE LSP e.g. A-B-...-C-D, but Notify msg flows along
> A-E-C-D, or A-B-F-D, we have a situation where B Notify msg toward X would
> travel via the tail-end (D) and C Notify msg would loop via the head-end
> (A) - advisable to prevent such thing
>
>      ----------E--------
>     |                   |
> e.g. A --- B -... X ...- C --- D
>           |                   |
>            ---------F---------

To clarify this point, you are concerned about how the Notify recipient may 
be replaced in a Path message as it enters the domain, and as it exits the 
domain (ditto Resv message).

This issue is dicussed somewhat in the GMPLS-UNI (RFC4208) and in segment 
protection. And there is a trade-off and a modelling question.

The trade-off is that it is probably highly beneficial to repair problems 
within the domain. Therefore, the domain entry point should replace the 
Notify Recipient with its own ID. The down side of this is that a Notify 
that genuinely needs to go to the original Notify Recipient must be 
forwarded (at the RSVP level) by the domain entry point.

The modelling is issue concerns how the Notify Recipient should be set on 
the Path message as it leaves a domain. The domain is not interested in 
knowing about notifiable events that happen outside the domain, so ideally 
we would replace the Notify Recipient with the original recipient used 
before entering the domain, but htis information is not known.

Actually, however, this replacement is only appropriate in nested domains. 
In sequential domains, when we leave one domain, we enter another, and so 
the new domain will want to use its own domain entry point as the Notify 
Recipient. This introduces the trade-off benefit again because the local 
issues are handled locally (which is good) but notifications that should go 
(for example) to the ingress, must now be forwarded multiople times, domain 
by domain.

Now, note that the inter-domain framework (RFC4726) was careful to put 
nested domains out of scope. They are more appropriate to the MLN work. We 
could observe that the domain-by-domain forwarding technique could be used 
for nested domains as well, but it doesn't look so pretty. Igor and I 
proposed a solution to this issue for nested in domains in That Book, but 
AFAIK, no-one has come close to needing to deploy a solution for nested 
domains yet.

So, I have added some discussion to the I-D around this subject.

> o) section 6: it is unclear from section 6 why an LSP head-end would ever
> desire to exercise control re-opt in part. when non-contiguous, at the end
> the only realistic reason for requesting such kind of request from the
> head-end is lost of performance e.g increasing loss, delay, etc.

I think you have answered your question to some extent.

A transit domain may be aware of the potential for reoptimization, but not 
bother because it is not worried by the level of service being provided. But 
the cumulative effect on the end-to-end LSP may cause the head-end to worry 
and trigger a reoptimization request (of course, the transit domain may 
choose to ignore the request).

But there is another benefit to end-to-end reoptimization that per-domain 
reoptimization cannot address. Per-domain re-optimization is restricted to 
preserve the domain entry and exit points (since to do otherwise would break 
the LSP!). But end-to-end reoptimization is more flexible and can select new 
domain border LSRs.

You are also right to observe that end-to-end reoptimization may involve a 
non-local modification and that might select new entry / exit points. In 
this case, we can observe that local re-optimization is more easily and 
flexibly achieved using nesting or stitching, and the "locality principle" 
(i.e., the idea of keeping information only where it is needed) is best 
achieved using stitching or nesting. That said, a contiguous LSP can easily 
be modified to take advantage of local reoptimizations (as defined in 
RFC4736) even if, as you observe, this would require the dissemination of 
information and the invocation of signaling outside the local domain.

I will update section 6 to bring out these points.

> there is also a clear diff. between a desirable re-opt. when the LSP is
> contiguous (and thus triggerable only by the head-end) and a
> local-/domain-specific resource re-opt. in other cases

You mean the cost/benefit analysis of reoptimization may be different.
Yes, that is correct and worth adding to section 6.

> o) section 7: the document could be more specific for the hello exchanges
> at inter-domain boundaries - in the same section specific security in
> using MPLS-BFD for end-to-end TE LSP should be clarified

I think you are raising some issues about peering and trust models at domain 
borders. These models relate to the establishment of signaling adjacencies 
(for example, but not limited to) through the exchange of Hello messages. 
Also relevant is the trust that one can assign to the content of signaling 
messages (including restart messages) and this is an example of the issues 
raised by the IESG with various recent I-Ds, in particular the restart 
extensions I-D.

AFAICS there is required to be *some* trust relationship between neighbors 
across a domain boundary if signaling is to be used. If this trust does not 
exist, do not use this function. It is not a requirement to signal across 
domain boundaries, but it is a requirement to provide a mechanism to support 
it if neighboring domains wish to.

Should this trust relationship be any different from between intra-domain 
peers? Possibly.

Should domain border nodes be able to selectively disallow certain 
"vulnerable" features at domain borders? Absolutely. And it is worth 
pointing out that the restart function could be disabled on the links 
between domain borders if it is considered vulnerable.

I have made several updates to the security section.

>- in the same section specific security in
> using MPLS-BFD for end-to-end TE LSP should be clarified

Absolutely. I have added a note about OAM, although this is largely to
reference other material since OAM is out of scope for this signaling
draft.

Many thanks,

Adrian 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:32:12 +0000
Message-ID: <04ec01c75a7b$9db76e70$0a23fea9@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>, "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>
Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:50:41 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Deborah,

Thanks for your review.
I have updated the draft as follows...

> =======
> Boilerplate
> Need the new boilerplate

Looks like a couple of non-mandatory boilerplate changes flagged by idnits.
I have made the updates.

> =======
> Nits: may want to check, a couple of nits on weird spacings and line
> lengths

No problems in the new revision.
Looks like maybe some idnits bugs for the previous revision.

> =======
> Section 1
> Update for recent work, e.g. [INTER-DOMAIN-FRAMEWORK] is RFC4726,
> RFC4726 applies for MPLS-TE and GMPLS,

Thanks. Yes.

> requirements for GMPLS are in draft-otani-ccamp-interas-gmpls-te-05.txt.

Well, I'll leave that for now as it is not specific to this work.

> =======
> Section 2
> text has "supported by one of three options"
> May want to also mention 4726's hybrid support, probably a small note
> is all that's needed, e.g. "(or hybrid)".

Yes. Text added to section 2.

> Also, it would be useful to
> mention something on consideration for 4726's backward compatibility,
> either here or in a later section.

Yup. New section 7 added to cover backward compatibilty.

> =======
> Section 3
> item 2 incomplete sentence, a suggestion:
> s/adhered to./adhered./

I'll leave that sort of thing to the RFC Editor to worry about.

> also in item 2
> s/message an error code/message with error code/

Yes

> item 3
> s/in the Section 3/in Section 3/

Yes.

> item 4
> s/option is supplied/option is specified/

Yes

> =======
> Section 3.2
> s/information that report/information that reports/

Yes

> =======
> Section 5.1.2
> s/(filed link)/(failed link)/

Yes. (A favorite typo of mine!)

> =======
> Section 5.1.3
> s/domian/domain/

Yes

> =======
> Section 6
> s/preferable/more preferred/

Yes

> s/in order search/in order to search/

Yes

> =======
> Section 7
> s/:-/:/

Yes

> the text says "disallow or ignore hops", I don't think its "ignore"?

I think it is ignore.
The policy is that a node outside the domain cannot specify the path of the 
LSP inside the domain. The domain border LSR can make implement this policy 
in one of two ways:
- It can reject the Path message
- It can ignore the hops in the ERO that lie within the domain

I have added this clarification.

> ======
> [LOOSE-REOPT] is now [RFC4736], and Informational, did you want to
> reference as a Normative Reference?

Good catch!

> Check and update others.

Checked

> ======
> Section 11
> JP's email address is up-to-date?

JP is ambidextrous. He can receive emails with both hands at the same
time.  :-)


Cheers,
Adrian 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:47:03 +0000
Message-ID: <01f801c759bc$f2a28790$0a23fea9@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Fw: Non-member submission from [Peter Tomsu <ptomsu@cisco.com>]   
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:39:26 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> To: Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
> From: Peter Tomsu <ptomsu@cisco.com>
> Cc: Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>,
>        ccamp@ops.ietf.org, mpls@lists.ietf.org,
>        Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org,
>        JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
> Subject: Re: [mpls] Re: CCAMP Last call on 
> draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:47:51 +0100
>
> Fully agree Dimitry,
>
> we should discuss at next meeting
>
> Peter
>
>
> On 17.01.2007, at 22:41, Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be wrote:
>
>> Hi -
>>
>> let's then discuss the policy selection further - are these
>> not dependent on the objectives - rather than be selected /
>> defined independently - ?
>>
>> this question is fundamental to the understanding of the
>> obtained results - i mean it may simply that with another
>> simple "policy" both would have result in the same outcome
>>
>> i see here a potential discussion item for next f2f meeting -
>> do you agree ?
>>
>> thanks,
>> - d.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
>> 15/01/2007 20:23
>>
>>         To:     Dimitri PAPADIMITRIOU/BE/ALCATEL@ALCATEL
>>         cc:     mpls@lists.ietf.org, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Ross Callon
>> <rcallon@juniper.net>, owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org, JP Vasseur
>> <jvasseur@cisco.com>
>>         Subject:        Re: [mpls] Re: CCAMP Last call  on
>> draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
>>
>>
>> Hi Dimitri,
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2007, at 4:31 PM, Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
>> wrote:
>>
>>> hi -
>>>
>>> thanks for the reply - not sure you ever got the following response
>>> back
>>>
>>> ----- Forwarded by Dimitri PAPADIMITRIOU/BE/ALCATEL on 12/01/2007
>>> 22:30
>>> -----
>>>         Dimitri PAPADIMITRIOU
>>>         07/01/2007 11:43
>>>                  To: Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira
>>> <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> thanks for the answer - i am still looking at the reason
>>> why the PN selection process is driven by a uniform policy
>>> which looks like an arbitrary choice
>>>
>>> HBlock aims at minimizing the blocking probability
>>> PN aims at minimizing the system perturbation
>>>
>>> to have a fair analysis policy should be applied uniformly
>>> and non-uniformly to both cases
>>>
>>
>> Both policies were applied in the same manner. The difference is in
>> the selection of LSPs for preemption (largest or smallest). We chose
>> to keep the policies simple.
>>
>> I appreciate your feedback. I'd be happy to meet with you and discuss
>> it further at the next IETF meeting as well.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Jau.
>>
>>
>>> much thanks,
>>> - d.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
>>> 05/01/2007 00:11
>>>
>>>         To:     Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
>>>         cc:     mpls@lists.ietf.org, JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>,
>>> ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira
>>> <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>,
>>> owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
>>>         Subject:        [mpls] Re: CCAMP Last call on
>>> draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Dimitri,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your comment.
>>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2006, at 3:47 AM, Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> adrian -
>>>>
>>>> in HBlock case the average wasted bw is a factor 10 smaller than
>>>> for any
>>>> other scheme (without significantly lowering the worst case,
>>>> still an
>>>> order of 10)
>>>
>>> Indeed. This can be seen in table 2. In this case, selection of LSPs
>>> much larger than
>>> the required bandwidth did not occur often. The worst case value does
>>> not reflect the
>>> frequency with which a high bandwidth LSP was selected (which was
>>> very rarely in
>>> this case, therefore the low "wasted" bandwidth).
>>>
>>>> the only noticeable difference with PN is exactly that one (which is
>>>> induced by the possibility left to Hblock to have two selection
>>>> depending
>>>> on heavy vs normal loaded link) - hence it would be interesting to
>>>> know
>>>> the dependency on the min/max LSP bw and distribution (scenario
>>>> dependancy) and have a similar PN approach (non-uniform selection)
>>>
>>> Note that PN has the objective of preempting a small number of LSPs
>>> of the lowest
>>> priority (therefore ordering by decreasing bandwidth), while HBlock
>>> aims at minimizing
>>> the blocking probability, therefore selecting smaller LSPs which will
>>> be more likely to be
>>> rerouted once preempted. This is the main difference between the two
>>> policies: Given a set
>>> of LSPs with the same priority, PN picks the largest (in the interest
>>> of picking few) and HBlock
>>> picks smaller ones (even if more than one, in the interest of being
>>> able to reroute them easily).
>>>
>>> I hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jaudelice.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> - d.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
>>>> Sent by: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
>>>> 14/12/2006 18:02
>>>> Please respond to "Adrian Farrel"
>>>>
>>>>         To:     <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
>>>>         cc:     <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>, "Ross Callon"
>>>> <rcallon@juniper.net>, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS"
>>>> <dbrungard@att.com>,
>>>> <mpls@lists.ietf.org>
>>>>         Subject:        Re: CCAMP Last call on
>>>> draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have been explicitly asked to lengthen this last call so as to
>>>> allow
>>>> time
>>>> for a review.
>>>>
>>>> Unusual, but not unreasonable.
>>>>
>>>> The last call is extended to noon on Sunday 17th December.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Adrian
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
>>>> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
>>>> Cc: <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>; "Ross Callon" <rcallon@juniper.net>;
>>>> "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>;
>>>> <mpls@lists.ietf.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:06 AM
>>>> Subject: CCAMP Last call on draft-deoliveira-diff-te-
>>>> preemption-06.txt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> This draft has been developed independently and has recently been
>>>> brought
>>>>> to the IESG for advancement as an individual submission to
>>>>> become an
>>>>> Informational RFC. I have done a first-level review and this latest
>>>>> revision includes updates to reflect my comments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since the material here concerns preemption and the suggested
>>>>> ways to
>>>>> operate an MPLS-TE or GMPLS network, we are running a quick last
>>>>> call on
>>>>
>>>>> the CCAMP mailing list to ensure that no-one has any objections.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please send your comments to the CCAMP list no later than noon
>>>>> GMT on
>>>> 13th
>>>>> December 2006.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Adrian
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
>>>>> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:50 PM
>>>>> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>>>>>> directories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Title : LSP Preemption Policies for MPLS Traffic Engineering
>>>>>> Author(s) : J. de Oliveira, et al.
>>>>>> Filename : draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
>>>>>> Pages : 19
>>>>>> Date : 2006-11-28
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When the establishment of a higher priority (Traffic Engineering
>>>>>>   Label Switched Path) TE LSP requires the preemption of a set of
>>>>>> lower
>>>>>>   priority TE LSPs, a node has to make a local decision to select
>>>>>> which
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   TE LSPs will be preempted.  The preempted LSPs are then
>>>>>> rerouted by
>>>>>>   their respective Head-end Label Switch Router (LSR).  This
>>>>>> document
>>>>>>   presents a flexible policy that can be used to achieve different
>>>>>>   objectives: preempt the lowest priority LSPs; preempt the
>>>>>> minimum
>>>>>>   number of LSPs; preempt the set of TE LSPs that provide the
>>>>>> closest
>>>>>>   amount of bandwidth to the required bandwidth for the
>>>>>> preempting TE
>>>>>>   LSPs (to minimize bandwidth wastage); preempt the LSPs that
>>>>>> will have
>>>>>>   the maximum chance to get rerouted.  Simulation results are
>>>>>> given and
>>>>>>   a comparison among several different policies, with respect to
>>>>>>   preemption cascading, number of preempted LSPs, priority, wasted
>>>>>>   bandwidth and blocking probability is also included.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deoliveira-diff-te-
>>>> preemption-06.txt
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
> --Apple-Mail-6-916943000
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> <HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
> -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
> border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
> font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
> normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
> -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
> -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
> white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Fully agree =
> Dimitry,</DIV><DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>we =
> should discuss at next meeting</DIV><DIV><BR =
> class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Peter</DIV><BR =
> class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN> </DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On =
> 17.01.2007, at 22:41, <A =
> href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be">Dimitri.Papadimitr=
> iou@alcatel-lucent.be</A> wrote:</DIV><BR =
> class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Hi -</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">let's then discuss the policy =
> selection further - are these</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">not dependent =
> on the objectives - rather than be selected /<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">defined =
> independently - ?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">this question is fundamental to the understanding of =
> the<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">obtained results - i mean it may simply that with =
> another</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">simple "policy" both would have =
> result in the same outcome</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">i see here a potential =
> discussion item for next f2f meeting -</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">do you =
> agree ?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- d.<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Jaudelice =
> Cavalcante de Oliveira &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu">jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu</A>&gt;</D=
> IV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">15/01/2007 20:23</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>To: <SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN>Dimitri =
> PAPADIMITRIOU/BE/ALCATEL@ALCATEL</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>cc: <SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN><A =
> href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</A>, <A =
> href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>, Ross =
> Callon<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</A>&gt;, <A =
> href=3D"mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org">owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>, =
> JP Vasseur<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com">jvasseur@cisco.com</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 
> =
> </SPAN>Subject:<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
> </SPAN>Re: [mpls] Re: CCAMP Last call<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>on<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi =
> Dimitri,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">On Jan 12, 2007, at 4:31 PM, <A =
> href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be">Dimitri.Papadimitr=
> iou@alcatel-lucent.be</A><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">wrote:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">hi -</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">thanks =
> for the reply - not sure you ever got the following response<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">back</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">----- Forwarded by Dimitri PAPADIMITRIOU/BE/ALCATEL =
> on 12/01/2007<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">22:30</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">-----</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>Dimitri =
> PAPADIMITRIOU</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>07/01/2007 =
> 11:43</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
> </SPAN>To: Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira</DIV><DIV 
> style=3D"margin-top:=
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu">jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu</A>&gt;</D=
> IV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">Hi</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">thanks for the answer - i am still looking at the =
> reason</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">why the PN selection process is =
> driven by a uniform policy</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">which looks =
> like an arbitrary choice</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">HBlock aims at minimizing the =
> blocking probability</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">PN aims at minimizing the =
> system perturbation</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
> "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to have a fair analysis policy =
> should be applied uniformly</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and =
> non-uniformly to both cases</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Both policies were applied in =
> the same manner. The difference is in<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the =
> selection of LSPs for preemption (largest or smallest). We chose<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to keep =
> the policies simple.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
> "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I appreciate your feedback. I'd =
> be happy to meet with you and discuss<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">it =
> further at the next IETF meeting as well.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Many =
> thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Jau.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">much thanks,</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">- d.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu">jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu</A>&gt;</D=
> IV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">05/01/2007 00:11</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>To: <SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN><A =
> href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be">Dimitri.Papadimitr=
> iou@alcatel-lucent.be</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>cc: <SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN><A =
> href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</A>, JP Vasseur =
> &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com">jvasseur@cisco.com</A>&gt;,</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>, Jaudelice =
> Cavalcante de Oliveira</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu">jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu</A>&gt;, =
> Ross Callon &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</A>&gt;,</DIV><DIV=
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org">owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A></DIV=
>><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 
> =
> </SPAN>Subject:<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
> </SPAN>[mpls] Re: CCAMP Last call on</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi =
> Dimitri,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Thank you for your comment.</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On Dec =
> 18, 2006, at 3:47 AM, <A =
> href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be">Dimitri.Papadimitr=
> iou@alcatel-lucent.be</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">wrote:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">adrian -</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">in =
> HBlock case the average wasted bw is a factor 10 smaller than</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">for any</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">other scheme =
> (without significantly lowering the worst case, still an</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">order of 10)</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Indeed. =
> This can be seen in table 2. In this case, selection of LSPs</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">much larger than</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the required =
> bandwidth did not occur often. The worst case value does</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">not reflect the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">frequency =
> with which a high bandwidth LSP was selected (which was</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">very rarely in</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">this case, =
> therefore the low "wasted" bandwidth).</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">the only noticeable difference with PN is exactly =
> that one (which is</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">induced by the possibility =
> left to Hblock to have two selection</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">depending</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">on heavy vs normal loaded link) =
> - hence it would be interesting to</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">know</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the dependency on the min/max =
> LSP bw and distribution (scenario</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">dependancy) =
> and have a similar PN approach (non-uniform selection)</DIV> =
> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Note that PN has the objective of preempting a small =
> number of LSPs</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of the lowest</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">priority (therefore ordering by decreasing =
> bandwidth), while HBlock</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">aims at =
> minimizing</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the blocking probability, =
> therefore selecting smaller LSPs which will</DIV><DIV 
> style=3D"margin-top:=
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">be more =
> likely to be</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">rerouted once preempted. This is =
> the main difference between the two</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">policies: =
> Given a set</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of LSPs with the same priority, =
> PN picks the largest (in the interest</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of =
> picking few) and HBlock</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">picks smaller =
> ones (even if more than one, in the interest of being</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">able to reroute them easily).</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I hope =
> this helps,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Jaudelice.</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE =
> type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- =
> d.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"Adrian =
> Farrel" &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV 
> =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Sent by: <A =
> href=3D"mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org">owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A></DIV=
>><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">14/12/2006 18:02</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Please =
> respond to "Adrian Farrel"</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>To: <SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN>&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 
> =
> </SPAN>cc: <SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN>&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu">jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu</A>&gt;, =
> "Ross Callon"</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</A>&gt;, =
> "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS"</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:dbrungard@att.com">dbrungard@att.com</A>&gt;,</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV 
> =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 
> =
> </SPAN>Subject:<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
> </SPAN>Re: CCAMP Last call on</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi,</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I have =
> been explicitly asked to lengthen this last call so as to<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">allow</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">time</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">for a review.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Unusual, but not =
> unreasonable.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">The last call is extended to noon on Sunday 17th =
> December.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">Adrian</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">----- Original Message =
> -----</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: "Adrian Farrel" &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV 
> =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">To: &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Cc: &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu">jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu</A>&gt;; =
> "Ross Callon" &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</A>&gt;;</DIV><DIV=
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">"Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:dbrungard@att.com">dbrungard@att.com</A>&gt;;</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">&lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV 
> =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:06 =
> AM</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: CCAMP Last call on =
> draft-deoliveira-diff-te-<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
> "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi,</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">This =
> draft has been developed independently and has recently been</DIV> =
> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">brought</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE =
> type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to the IESG for advancement as =
> an individual submission to become an</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">Informational RFC. I have done a first-level review and this =
> latest</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">revision includes updates to =
> reflect my comments.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
> "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Since the material here concerns =
> preemption and the suggested<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">ways =
> to</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">operate an MPLS-TE or GMPLS network, we are =
> running a quick last</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">call on</DIV> =
> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the CCAMP mailing list to =
> ensure that no-one has any objections.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Please send =
> your comments to the CCAMP list no later than noon<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">GMT =
> on</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">13th</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE =
> type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">December 2006.</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">Thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Adrian</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">----- Original Message -----</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">From: &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org">Internet-Drafts@ietf.org</A>&gt;<=
> /DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: &lt;<A =
> href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org">i-d-announce@ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><=
> DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:50 PM</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: I-D =
> ACTION:draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line =
> Internet-Drafts</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">directories.</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Title : LSP =
> Preemption Policies for MPLS Traffic Engineering</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Author(s) : J. de Oliveira, et al.</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Filename : =
> draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Pages : =
> 19</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date : 2006-11-28</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">When the =
> establishment of a higher priority (Traffic Engineering</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
> </SPAN>Label Switched Path) TE LSP requires the preemption of a set =
> of</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">lower</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>priority TE LSPs, a node has =
> to make a local decision to select</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">which</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>TE =
> LSPs will be preempted.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
> </SPAN>The preempted LSPs are then</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">rerouted =
> by</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
> </SPAN>their respective Head-end Label Switch Router (LSR).<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>This</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">document</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>presents a flexible policy =
> that can be used to achieve different</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>objectives: preempt the =
> lowest priority LSPs; preempt the minimum</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>number of LSPs; preempt the =
> set of TE LSPs that provide the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">closest</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>amount of bandwidth to the =
> required bandwidth for the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">preempting =
> TE</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
> 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
> </SPAN>LSPs (to minimize bandwidth wastage); preempt the LSPs =
> that</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">will have</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>the =
> maximum chance to get rerouted.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
> </SPAN>Simulation results are</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">given =
> and</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>a comparison among several =
> different policies, with respect to</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>preemption cascading, number =
> of preempted LSPs, priority, wasted</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>bandwidth and blocking =
> probability is also included.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">A URL for this Internet-Draft =
> is:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
> 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deoliveira-diff-te-">htt=
> p://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deoliveira-diff-te-</A></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">preemption-06.txt</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">mpls mailing list</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</A></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www1.ietf.org=
> /mailman/listinfo/mpls</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">mpls mailing list</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</A></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www1.ietf.org=
> /mailman/listinfo/mpls</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">mpls mailing list</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</A></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www1.ietf.org=
> /mailman/listinfo/mpls</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
> ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">mpls mailing list</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</A></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; "><A =
> href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www1.ietf.org=
> /mailman/listinfo/mpls</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>=
>
> --Apple-Mail-6-916943000--
>
>
>
> 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:24:53 +0000
Message-ID: <00e801c75998$62f939f0$0a23fea9@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, "Dimitri Papadimitriou" <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be>
Cc: "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>, "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:22:07 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dimitri, Deborah,

Thanks for your comments on this I-D.

Since I seem to be the de facto editor at the moment, I will try to get to 
them this week and submit a new revision before the cut-off.

Cheers,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; "JP Vasseur" 
<jvasseur@cisco.com>; "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 8:00 PM
Subject: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt


Hi,

Here's my review of this I-D to help the authors prepare it for WG last
call. In my opinion, the draft is almost ready except for a few minor
items and editorials. I encourage the WG to also post any items at this
time, so as to allow the authors to efficiently update. If the authors
can submit a new version addressing the comments, we can take the I-D
forward.

Thanks,
Deborah





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 20:43:46 +0000
To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
Cc: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>, owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <OF97BD1489.617B78B5-ONC125728D.006F1D9A-C125728D.0071CB8D@netfr.alcatel.fr>
From: Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:42:56 +0100
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

deborah, all

o) section 3.4: processing is clearly indicated but on inter-domain basis 
one of the issue is that the processing can have to be performed on nodes 
that will further Notifies toward an AS-path that is completely different 
from its corresponding TE LSP e.g. A-B-...-C-D, but Notify msg flows along 
A-F-C-D, or A-B-F-D, we have a situation where B Notify msg toward X would 
travel via the tail-end (D) and C Notify msg would loop via the head-end 
(A) - advisable to prevent such thing 
 
      ----------E--------
     |                   |
e.g. A --- B -... X ...- C --- D
           |                   |
            ---------F---------

o) section 6: it is unclear from section 6 why an LSP head-end would ever 
desire to exercise control re-opt in part. when non-contiguous, at the end 
the only realistic reason for requesting such kind of request from the 
head-end is lost of performance e.g increasing loss, delay, etc. 

there is also a clear diff. between a desirable re-opt. when the LSP is 
contiguous (and thus triggerable only by the head-end) and a 
local-/domain-specific resource re-opt. in other cases

o) section 7: the document could be more specific for the hello exchanges 
at inter-domain boundaries - in the same section specific security in 
using MPLS-BFD for end-to-end TE LSP should be clarified

thanks,
- d.








"BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
Sent by: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
25/02/2007 21:00
 
        To:     <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
        cc:     "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "JP Vasseur" 
<jvasseur@cisco.com>, "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>
        Subject:        Chair review of 
draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt


Hi,
 
Here's my review of this I-D to help the authors prepare it for WG last 
call. In my opinion, the draft is almost ready except for a few minor 
items and editorials. I encourage the WG to also post any items at this 
time, so as to allow the authors to efficiently update. If the authors can 
submit a new version addressing the comments, we can take the I-D forward.
 
Thanks,
Deborah
 
=======
Boilerplate
Need the new boilerplate
=======
Nits: may want to check, a couple of nits on weird spacings and line 
lengths
=======
Section 1
Update for recent work, e.g. [INTER-DOMAIN-FRAMEWORK] is RFC4726, RFC4726 
applies for MPLS-TE and GMPLS, requirements for GMPLS are in 
draft-otani-ccamp-interas-gmpls-te-05.txt.
=======
Section 2
text has "supported by one of three options"
May want to also mention 4726's hybrid support, probably a small note is 
all that's needed, e.g. "(or hybrid)". Also, it would be useful to mention 
something on consideration for 4726's backward compatibility, either here 
or in a later section.
=======
Section 3
item 2 incomplete sentence, a suggestion:
s/adhered to./adhered./
also in item 2
s/message an error code/message with error code/
item 3
s/in the Section 3/in Section 3/
item 4
s/option is supplied/option is specified/
=======
Section 3.2
s/information that report/information that reports/
=======
Section 5.1.2
s/(filed link)/(failed link)/
=======
Section 5.1.3
s/domian/domain/
=======
Section 6
s/preferable/more preferred/
s/in order search/in order to search/
=======
Section 7
s/:-/:/
the text says "disallow or ignore hops", I don't think its "ignore"?
======
[LOOSE-REOPT] is now [RFC4736], and Informational, did you want to 
reference as a Normative Reference?
Check and update others.
======
Section 11
JP's email address is up-to-date?
 
 
 




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 20:09:05 +0000
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C75917.A0A96697"
Subject: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:00:39 -0600
Message-ID: <449B2580D802A443A923DABF3EAB82AF0DB02C9B@OCCLUST04EVS1.ugd.att.com>
Thread-Topic: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
Thread-Index: AcdZF59rSnhs84N1Q66MRkz68EEEuA==
From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>, "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C75917.A0A96697
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,
=20
Here's my review of this I-D to help the authors prepare it for WG last
call. In my opinion, the draft is almost ready except for a few minor
items and editorials. I encourage the WG to also post any items at this
time, so as to allow the authors to efficiently update. If the authors
can submit a new version addressing the comments, we can take the I-D
forward.
=20
Thanks,
Deborah
=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Boilerplate
Need the new boilerplate
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Nits: may want to check, a couple of nits on weird spacings and line
lengths
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 1
Update for recent work, e.g. [INTER-DOMAIN-FRAMEWORK] is RFC4726,
RFC4726 applies for MPLS-TE and GMPLS, requirements for GMPLS are in
draft-otani-ccamp-interas-gmpls-te-05.txt.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 2
text has "supported by one of three options"
May want to also mention 4726's hybrid support, probably a small note is
all that's needed, e.g. "(or hybrid)". Also, it would be useful to
mention something on consideration for 4726's backward compatibility,
either here or in a later section.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 3
item 2 incomplete sentence, a suggestion:
s/adhered to./adhered./
also in item 2
s/message an error code/message with error code/
item 3
s/in the Section 3/in Section 3/
item 4
s/option is supplied/option is specified/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 3.2
s/information that report/information that reports/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 5.1.2
s/(filed link)/(failed link)/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 5.1.3
s/domian/domain/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 6
s/preferable/more preferred/
s/in order search/in order to search/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 7
s/:-/:/
the text says "disallow or ignore hops", I don't think its "ignore"?
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
[LOOSE-REOPT] is now [RFC4736], and Informational, did you want to
reference as a Normative Reference?
Check and update others.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Section 11
JP's email address is up-to-date?
=20
=20
=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C75917.A0A96697
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	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3059" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>Hi,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>Here's =
my review of=20
this I-D to help the authors prepare it for WG last call. In my opinion, =
the=20
draft is almost ready except for a few minor items and editorials. I =
encourage=20
the WG to also post any items&nbsp;at this time, so as to allow&nbsp;the =

authors&nbsp;to efficiently update. If the authors can submit a new =
version=20
addressing the comments, we can take the I-D =
forward.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>Deborah</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>Boilerplate</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>Need =
the new=20
boilerplate</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>Nits: =
may want to=20
check, a couple of nits on weird spacings and line =
lengths</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>Section=20
1</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>Update =
for recent=20
work, e.g. [INTER-DOMAIN-FRAMEWORK] is RFC4726, RFC4726 applies for =
MPLS-TE and=20
GMPLS, requirements for GMPLS are in=20
draft-otani-ccamp-interas-gmpls-te-05.txt.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>Section=20
2</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>text =
has=20
"</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>supported=20
by one of three options"</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>May =
want to also=20
mention 4726's hybrid support, probably a small note is all that's =
needed, e.g.=20
"(or hybrid)". Also, it would be useful to mention something on =
consideration=20
for 4726's backward compatibility, either here or in a later=20
section.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D526135116-25022007>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D526135116-25022007>Section=20
3</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D526135116-25022007>item 2 =
incomplete=20
sentence, a suggestion:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 08:03:29 +0000
Message-ID: <20070224160017.zorstl92osg888os@webmail1.sjtu.edu.cn>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:00:17 +0800
From: blithe@sjtu.edu.cn
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, dbrungard@att.com, sunwq@sjtu.edu.cn, blithe@sjtu.edu.cn
Subject: draft-xie-ccamp-lsp-dppm-00.txt
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Dear all,

We have posted an new I-D: draft-xie-ccamp-lsp-dppm-00.txt.  Any comments for this are solicited! The following is the abstract of this I-D, and please refer the attachment for details.

Abstract

   Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) is one of the most
   promising candidate technologies for the future data transmission
   network.  The GMPLS has been developed to control and cooperate
   different kinds of network elements, such as conventional routers,
   switches, Dense Wavelength Division Multiplexing (DWDM) systems, Add-
   Drop Multiplexors (ADMs), photonic cross-connects (PXCs), optical
   cross-connects (OXCs), etc.  Dynamic provisioning ability of these
   physically diverse devices differs from each other drastically.  At
   the same time, the need for dynamically provisioned connections is
   increasing because optical networks are being deployed in metro area.
   As different applications have varied requirements in the
   provisioning performance of optical networks, it is imperative to
   define standardized metrics and procedures such that the performance
   of networks and application needs can be mapped to each other.

   This document provides a series of performance metrics to evaluate
   the dynamic LSP provisioning performance in GMPLS networks,
   specifically the dynamical LSP setup/release performance.  These
   metrics can depict the features of the GMPLS network in LSP dynamic
   provisioning.




Best regards,

Guowu Xie Shanghai Jiao Tong University
800 Dongchuan Road
Shanghai  200240 CN
Phone: +86 21 3420 4596
Email: blithe@sjtu.edu.cn



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ccamp                                                             G. Xie
Internet-Draft                                                    W. Sun
Intended status: Standards Track           Shanghai Jiao Tong University
Expires: August 26, 2007                                        G. Zhang
                                      China Academy of Telecommunication
                                                           Research,MII.
                                                                  J. Han
                                                                    IXIA
                                                                  X. Wei
                                                               Fiberhome
                                                                  J. Gao
                                                                  Huawei
                                                       February 22, 2007


Label Switched Path (LSP) Dynamical Provisioning Performance Metrics in
                       Generalized MPLS Networks
                    draft-xie-ccamp-lsp-dppm-00.txt

Status of this Memo

   By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any
   applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware
   have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes
   aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79.

   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
   Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that
   other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-
   Drafts.

   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
   and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
   time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
   material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."

   The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
   http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt.

   The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at
   http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.

   This Internet-Draft will expire on August 26, 2007.

Copyright Notice

   Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007).




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Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


Abstract

   Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) is one of the most
   promising candidate technologies for the future data transmission
   network.  The GMPLS has been developed to control and cooperate
   different kinds of network elements, such as conventional routers,
   switches, Dense Wavelength Division Multiplexing (DWDM) systems, Add-
   Drop Multiplexors (ADMs), photonic cross-connects (PXCs), optical
   cross-connects (OXCs), etc.  Dynamic provisioning ability of these
   physically diverse devices differs from each other drastically.  At
   the same time, the need for dynamically provisioned connections is
   increasing because optical networks are being deployed in metro area.
   As different applications have varied requirements in the
   provisioning performance of optical networks, it is imperative to
   define standardized metrics and procedures such that the performance
   of networks and application needs can be mapped to each other.

   This document provides a series of performance metrics to evaluate
   the dynamic LSP provisioning performance in GMPLS networks,
   specifically the dynamical LSP setup/release performance.  These
   metrics can depict the features of the GMPLS network in LSP dynamic
   provisioning.





























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Table of Contents

   1.  Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  5
   2.  Conventions Used in This Document  . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  6
   3.  Overview of Performance Metrics  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  7
   4.  A Singleton Definition for Unidirectional LSP Setup Delay  . .  8
     4.1.  Motivation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  8
     4.2.  Metric Name  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  8
     4.3.  Metric Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  8
     4.4.  Metric Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  9
     4.5.  Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  9
     4.6.  Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  9
     4.7.  Methodologies  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
   5.  A Definition for Samples of Unidirectional LSP Setup Delay . . 11
     5.1.  Metric Name  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
     5.2.  Metric Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
     5.3.  Metric Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
     5.4.  Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
     5.5.  Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
     5.6.  Methodologies  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
   6.  A Singleton Definition for Bidirectional LSP Setup Delay . . . 13
     6.1.  Motivation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13
     6.2.  Metric Name  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
     6.3.  Metric Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
     6.4.  Metric Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
     6.5.  Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
     6.6.  Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
     6.7.  Methodologies  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
   7.  A Definition for Samples of Bidirectional LSP Setup Delay  . . 17
     7.1.  Metric Name  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17
     7.2.  Metric Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17
     7.3.  Metric Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17
     7.4.  Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17
     7.5.  Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18
     7.6.  Methodologies  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18
   8.  A Singleton Definition for LSP Graceful Release Delay  . . . . 19
     8.1.  Motivation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
     8.2.  Metric Name  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
     8.3.  Metric Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
     8.4.  Metric Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
     8.5.  Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
     8.6.  Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20
     8.7.  Methodologies  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21
   9.  A Definition for Samples of LSP Graceful Release Delay . . . . 23
     9.1.  Metric Name  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23
     9.2.  Metric Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23
     9.3.  Metric Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23
     9.4.  Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23



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     9.5.  Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24
     9.6.  Methodologies  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24
   10. Some Statistics Definitions for Metrics to Report  . . . . . . 25
     10.1. The Minimum of Metric  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25
     10.2. The Median of Metric . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25
     10.3. The percentile of Metric . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25
     10.4. The failure probability  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25
   11. Discussion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26
   12. Security Considerations  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27
   13. Acknowledgements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28
   14. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29
   Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30
   Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . 32






































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1.  Introduction

   Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) is one of the most
   promising candidate technologies for the future data transmission
   network.  The GMPLS has been developed to control and cooperate
   different kinds of network elements, such as conventional routers,
   switches, Dense Wavelength Division Multiplexing (DWDM) systems, Add-
   Drop Multiplexors (ADMs), photonic cross-connects (PXCs), optical
   cross-connects (OXCs), etc.  Dynamic provisioning ability of these
   physically diverse devices differs from each other drastically.

   As more and more applications are seeking to use GMPLS networks as
   their underlying transport network, and increasingly in a dynamic
   way, the need is growing for measuring and characterizing the
   performance of LSP provisioning in GMPLS networks, such that
   requirement from applications and the provisioning capability of the
   network can be mapped to each other.  This draft intends to define
   performance metrics that can be used to depict the dynamic LSP
   provisioning performance of GMPLS networks.
































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2.  Conventions Used in This Document

   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this
   document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119].














































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3.  Overview of Performance Metrics

   In this memo, to depict the dynamic LSP provisioning performance of a
   GMPLS network, we define 3 performance metrics: unidirectional LSP
   setup delay, bidirectional LSP setup delay, and LSP graceful release
   delay.  The latency of the LSP setup/release signal is similar to the
   Round-trip Delay in IP networks.  So we refer the structures and
   notions introduced and discussed in the IPPM Framework document,
   [RFC2330] [RFC2679] [RFC2681].  The reader is assumed to be familiar
   with the notions in those documents.









































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4.  A Singleton Definition for Unidirectional LSP Setup Delay

   This part defines a metric for unidirectional Label Switched Path
   setup delay across a GMPLS network.

4.1.  Motivation

   Unidirectional Label Switched Path setup delay is useful for several
   reasons:

   o  LSP setup delay is an important metric that depicts the
      provisioning performance of a GMPLS network.  Longer LSP setup
      delay will incur higher overhead for the requesting application,
      especially when the LSP duration is comparable to the LSP setup
      delay.

   o  The minimum value of this metric provides an indication of the
      delay that will likely be experienced when the LSP traversed the
      shortest route at the lightest load in the control plane.  As the
      delay itself consists of several components, such as link
      propagation delay and nodal processing delay, this metric also
      reflects the status of control plane.  For example, for LSPs
      traversing the same route, longer setup delays may suggest
      congestion in the control channel or high control element load.
      For this reason, this metric is useful for testing and diagnostic
      purposes.

   o  LSP setup delay variance has different impact on to applications.
      Erratic variation in LSP setup delay makes it difficult to support
      applications that has stringent setup delay requirement.

   The measurement of unidirectional LSP setup delay instead of
   bidirectional LSP setup delay is motivated by the following factors:

   o  Some applications may only use unidirectional LSPs rather than
      bidirectional ones.  For example, content delivery services in
      multicast method (IPTV) only use unidirectional LSPs.

4.2.  Metric Name

   Unidirectional LSP setup delay

4.3.  Metric Parameters

   o  ID0, the ingress LSR ID

   o  ID1, the egress LSR ID




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   o  T, a time

4.4.  Metric Units

   The value of unidirectional LSP setup delay is either a real number,
   or an undefined (informally, infinite) number of seconds.

4.5.  Definition

   The unidirectional LSP setup delay from the ingress node to the
   egress node [RFC3945] at T is dT means that ingress node sent the
   first bit of a PATH message packet to egress node at wire-time T, and
   that the ingress node received the last bit of responding RESV
   message packet from egress node at wire-time T+dT in the
   unidirectional LSP setup case.

   The unidirectional LSP setup delay from the ingress node to the
   egress node at T is undefined (informally, infinite), means that
   ingress node sent the first bit of PATH message packet to egress node
   at wire-time T and that ingress node did not receive the
   corresponding RESV message within a reasonable period of time.

4.6.  Discussion

   The following issues are likely to come up in practice:

   o  The accuracy of unidirectional LSP setup delay at time T depends
      on the clock resolution in the ingress node; but synchronization
      between the ingress node and egress node is not required since
      unidirectional LSP setup uses two-way signaling

   o  A given methodology will have to include a way to determine
      whether a latency value is infinite or whether it is merely very
      large.  Simple upper bounds could be used.  But the GMPLS network
      accommodates many kinds of devices.  For example, some photonic
      cross-connects (PXCs) have to move the micro mirrors.  This
      physical motion may take several milliseconds.  But the common
      electronic switches finish the nodal process within several
      microseconds.  So the unidirectional LSP setup delay varies
      drastically from a network to another.  In practice, the upper
      bound should be chose carefully.

   o  If ingress node sent out the PATH message to set up LSP, but never
      receive corresponding RESV message, unidirectional LSP setup delay
      is deemed to be infinite.

   o  If ingress node sent out the PATH message to set up LSP but
      receive PathErr message, unidirectional LSP setup delay is also



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      deemed to be infinite.  There are many possible reasons for this
      case.  For example, the PATH message has invalid parameters or the
      network has not enough resource to set up the requested LSP, etc.

4.7.  Methodologies

   Generally the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  Make sure that the network has enough resource to set up the
      requested LSP.

   o  At the ingress node, form the PATH message according to the LSP
      requirements.  A timestamp (T1) may be stored locally in the
      ingress node when the PATH message packet is sent towards the
      egress node.

   o  If the corresponding RESV message arrives within a reasonable
      period of time, take the timestamp (T2) as soon as possible upon
      the receipt of the message.  By subtracting the two timestamps, an
      estimate of unidirectional LSP setup delay (T2 -T1) can be
      computed.

   o  If the corresponding RESV message fails to arrive within a
      reasonable period of time, the unidirectional LSP setup delay is
      deemed to be undefined (informally, infinite).  Note that the
      'reasonable' threshold of is a parameter of the methodology.

   o  If the corresponding response message is PathErr, the
      unidirectional LSP setup delay is deemed to be undefined
      (informally, infinite).





















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Internet-Draft     LSP Dynamical PPM in GMPLS Networks     February 2007


5.  A Definition for Samples of Unidirectional LSP Setup Delay

   In the previous part, we define the singleton metric of
   unidirectional LSP setup delay.  Now we define how to get one
   particular sample of unidirectional LSP setup delay.  Sampling is to
   select a particular potion of singleton values of the given
   parameters.  Like the [RFC2330], we use Poisson sampling as an
   example.

5.1.  Metric Name

   Unidirectional LSP setup delay sample

5.2.  Metric Parameters

   o  ID0, the ingress LSR ID

   o  ID1, the egress LSR ID

   o  T0, a time

   o  Tf, a time

   o  Lambda, a rate in reciprocal seconds

   o  Td, the 'reasonable' threshold

5.3.  Metric Units

   A sequence of pairs; the elements of each pair are:

   o  T, a time, and

   o  dT, either a real number or an undefined number of seconds.

   The values of T in the sequence are monotonically increasing.  Note
   that T would be a valid parameter to unidirectional LSP setup delay
   sample, and that dT would be a valid value of unidirectional LSP
   setup delay.

5.4.  Definition

   Given T0, Tf, and lambda, we compute a pseudo-random Poisson process
   beginning at or before T0, with average arrival rate lambda, and
   ending at or after Tf.  Those time values greater than or equal to T0
   and less than or equal to Tf are then selected.  At each of the times
   in this process, we obtain the value of unidirectional LSP setup
   delay sample at this time.  The value of the sample is the sequence



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   made up of the resulting <time, unidirectional LSP setup delay>
   pairs.  If there are no such pairs, the sequence is of length zero
   and the sample is said to be empty.

5.5.  Discussion

   The parameter lambda should be carefully chosen.  If the rate is too
   large, too frequent LSP setup/release procedure results in high
   overhead in the control plane.  In turn, the high overhead will
   increase unidirectional LSP setup delay.  On the other hand if the
   rate is too small, the sample could not completely reflect the
   dynamic provisioning performance of the GMPLS network.  The
   appropriate lambda value depends on the given network.

5.6.  Methodologies

   Generally the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  The selection of specific times, using the specified Poisson
      arrival process, and

   o  Set up the LSP as the methodology for the singleton unidirectional
      LSP setup delay, and obtain the value of unidirectional LSP setup
      delay

   o  Release the LSP, and wait for the next Poisson arrival process

   Note that: it is possible that before the previous LSP release
   procedure completes, the next Poisson arrival process has arrived and
   the LSP setup procedure has been initiated.  If there is resource
   contention between the two LSPs, the LSP setup may fail.




















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6.  A Singleton Definition for Bidirectional LSP Setup Delay

   Bidirectional optical LSPs (or lightpaths) are seen as a requirement
   for most optical networking service.  GMPLS allows establishment of
   bi-directional symmetric LSPs (not of asymmetric LSPs).  A symmetric
   bidirectional LSP has the same traffic engineering requirements
   including fate sharing, protection and restoration, LSRs, and
   resource requirements (e.g., delay and delay variance) in either
   direction.

   Compared with the approach of establishing a bidirectional LSP using
   two unidirectional LSP, the bidirectional LSP has the following
   advantages:

   o  Reduces the setup delay to one ingress-egress round trip time plus
      processing time in the nodes en-route;

   o  Reduces the signal overhead in the control plane;

   o  Allows suggesting a label by an upstream node to reduce the setup
      delay.

   This part defines a metric for bidirectional LSP setup delay across a
   GMPLS network.

6.1.  Motivation

   Bidirectional Label Switched Path setup delay is useful for several
   reasons:

   o  LSP setup delay is an important metric that depicts the
      provisioning performance of a GMPLS network.  Longer LSP setup
      delay will incur higher overhead for the requesting application,
      especially when the LSP duration is comparable to the LSP setup
      delay.  Thus, measuring the setup delay is important for
      applications scheduling.

   o  The minimum value of this metric provides an indication of the
      delay that will likely be experienced when the LSP traversed the
      shortest route at the lightest load in the control plane.  As the
      delay itself consists of several components, such as link
      propagation delay and nodal processing delay, this metric also
      reflects the status of control plane.  For example, for LSPs
      traversing the same route, longer setup delays may suggest
      congestion in the control channel or high control element load.
      For this reason, this metric is useful for testing and diagnostic
      purposes.




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   o  LSP setup delay variance has different impact on to applications.
      Erratic variation in LSP setup delay makes it difficult to support
      applications that has stringent setup delay requirement.

   The measurement of bidirectional LSP setup delay instead of
   unidirectional LSP setup delay is motivated by the following factors:

   o  Bidirectional LSPs are seen as a requirement for many GMPLS
      network while the LSPs are unidirectional in nature in the MPLS
      network.  For most applications, the communication is
      bidirectional.  So bidirectional LSP delay is necessary and more
      reasonable than unidirectional LSP delay.

6.2.  Metric Name

   Bidirectional LSP setup delay

6.3.  Metric Parameters

   o  ID0, the ingress LSR ID

   o  ID1, the egress LSR ID

   o  T, a time

6.4.  Metric Units

   The value of bidirectional LSP setup delay is either a real number,
   or an undefined (informally, infinite) number of seconds.

6.5.  Definition

   For a real number dT, the bidirectional LSP setup delay from ingress
   node to egress node at T is dT, means that ingress node sent out the
   first bit of a PATH message including an Upstream Label [RFC3473]
   heading for egress node at wire-time T, egress node received that
   packet, then immediately sent a RESV message packet back to ingress
   node, and that ingress node received the last bit of that packet at
   wire-time T+dT.

   The bidirectional LSP setup delay from ingress node to egress node at
   T is undefined (informally, infinite), means that ingress node sent
   the first bit of PATH message to egress node at wire-time T and that
   (either egress node did not receive the packet, egress node did not
   send corresponding RESV message packet in response, or) ingress node
   did not receive that response packet.





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6.6.  Discussion

   The following issues are likely to come up in practice:

   o  The accuracy of bidirectional LSP setup delay depends on the clock
      resolution in the ingress node; but synchronization between the
      ingress node and egress node is not required since bidirectional
      LSP setup uses two-way signaling.

   o  A given methodology will have to include a way to determine
      whether a latency value is infinite or whether it is merely very
      large.  Simple upper bounds could be used.  But the GMPLS network
      accommodates many kinds of devices.  For example, some photonic
      cross-connects (PXCs) have to move the micro mirrors.  This
      physical motion may take several milliseconds.  But the common
      electronic switches finish the nodal process within several
      microseconds.  So the bidirectional LSP setup delay varies
      drastically from a network to another.  In the process of
      bidirectional LSP setup, if the downstream node overrides the
      label suggested by the upstream node, the setup delay will also
      increase obviously.  Thus, in practice, the upper bound should be
      chosen carefully.

   o  If the ingress node sent out the PATH message to set up the LSP,
      but never receive the corresponding RESV message, bidirectional
      LSP setup delay is deemed to be infinite.

   o  If the ingress node sent out the PATH message to set up the LSP,
      but receive PathErr message, bidirectional LSP setup delay is also
      deemed to be infinite.  There are many possible reasons for this
      case.  For example, the PATH message has invalid parameters or the
      network has not enough resource to set up the requested LSP.

6.7.  Methodologies

   Generally the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  Make sure that the network has enough resource to set up the
      requested LSP.

   o  At the ingress node, form the PATH message (including the Upstream
      Label or suggested label) according to the LSP requirements.  A
      timestamp (T1) may be stored locally in the ingress node when the
      PATH message packet is sent towards the egress node.

   o  If the corresponding RESV message arrives within a reasonable
      period of time, take the final timestamp (T2) as soon as possible
      upon the receipt of the message.  By subtracting the two



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      timestamps, an estimate of bidirectional LSP setup delay (T2 -T1)
      can be computed.

   o  If the corresponding RESV message fails to arrive within a
      reasonable period of time, the bidirectional LSP setup delay is
      deemed to be undefined (informally, infinite).  Note that the
      'reasonable' threshold is a parameter of the methodology.

   o  If the corresponding response message is PathErr, the
      bidirectional LSP setup delay is deemed to be undefined
      (informally, infinite).








































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7.  A Definition for Samples of Bidirectional LSP Setup Delay

   In the previous part, we define the singleton metric of bidirectional
   LSP setup delay.  Now we define how to get one particular sample of
   bidirectional LSP setup delay.  We also use Poisson sampling as an
   example.

7.1.  Metric Name

   Bidirectional LSP setup delay sample

7.2.  Metric Parameters

   o  ID0, the ingress LSR ID

   o  ID1, the egress LSR ID

   o  T0, a time

   o  Tf, a time

   o  Lambda, a rate in reciprocal seconds

   o  Td, the 'reasonable' threshold

7.3.  Metric Units

   A sequence of pairs; the elements of each pair are:

   o  T, a time, and

   o  dT, either a real number or an undefined number of seconds.

   The values of T in the sequence are monotonical increasing.  Note
   that T would be a valid parameter to bidirectional LSP setup delay
   sample, and that dT would be a valid value of bidirectional LSP setup
   delay.

7.4.  Definition

   Given T0, Tf, and lambda, we compute a pseudo-random Poisson process
   beginning at or before T0, with average arrival rate lambda, and
   ending at or after Tf.  Those time values greater than or equal to T0
   and less than or equal to Tf are then selected.  At each of the times
   in this process, we obtain the value of unidirectional LSP setup
   delay sample at this time.  The value of the sample is the sequence
   made up of the resulting <time, bidirectional LSP setup delay> pairs.
   If there are no such pairs, the sequence is of length zero and the



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   sample is said to be empty.

7.5.  Discussion

   The parameter lambda should be carefully chosen.  If the rate is too
   large, too frequent LSP setup/release procedure results in high load
   in the control plane, which will in turn increase unidirectional LSP
   setup delay.  On the other hand if the rate is too small, the sample
   could not completely reflect the dynamic provisioning performance of
   the GMPLS network.  The appropriate lambda value depends on the given
   network.

7.6.  Methodologies

   Generally the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  Setup the LSP to be deleted

   o  The selection of specific times, using the specified Poisson
      arrival process, and

   o  Release the LSP as the methodology for the singleton LSP graceful
      release delay, and obtain the value of LSP graceful release delay

   o  Setup the LSP, and restart the Poisson arrival process, wait for
      the next Poisson arrival process

   Note that: it is possible that before the previous LSP release
   procedure completes, the next Poisson arrival process has arrived and
   the LSP setup procedure has been initiated.  If there is resource
   contention between these two LSPs, the LSP setup may fail.




















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8.  A Singleton Definition for LSP Graceful Release Delay

   There are two different kinds of LSP release mechanisms in the GMPLS
   network: graceful release and forceful release.  As a matter of fact,
   the forceful release employs PathErr message to tear down the LSP.
   Memo in current version has not taken forceful LSP release procedure
   into account.

8.1.  Motivation

   LSP graceful release delay is useful for several reasons:

   o  The LSP graceful release delay is part of the total cost of
      dynamic LSP provisioning.  For some short duration applications,
      the LSP tear down time can not be ignored

   o  The LSP graceful release procedure is more reasonable for GMPLS
      network, particularly the optical networks.  Since it doesn't
      trigger restoration/protection, it is "alarm-free connection
      deletion" in [RFC4208].

8.2.  Metric Name

   LSP graceful release delay

8.3.  Metric Parameters

   o  ID0, the ingress LSR ID

   o  ID1, the egress LSR ID

   o  T, a time

8.4.  Metric Units

   The value of LSP graceful release delay is either a real number, or
   an undefined (informally, infinite) number of seconds.

8.5.  Definition

   There are two different LSP graceful release procedures, one is
   initiated by the ingress node, and another is initiated by egress
   node.  The two procedures are depicted in the [RFC3473].  We define
   the graceful LSP release delay for these two procedures separately.

   For a real number dT, the LSP graceful release delay from ingress
   node to egress node at T is dT, means that ingress node sent the
   first bit of a PATH message including Admin Status Object with



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   setting the Reflect (R) and Delete (D) bits to egress node at wire-
   time T, that egress node received that packet, then immediately sent
   a RESV message including Admin Status Object with the Delete (D) bit
   set back to ingress node.  The ingress node sends out PathTear
   downstream to remove the LSP, and egress node received the last bit
   of PathTear packet at wire-time T+dT.

   The LSP graceful release delay from ingress node to egress node at T
   is undefined (informally, infinite), means that ingress node sent the
   first bit of PATH message to egress node at wire-time T and that
   (either egress node did not receive the PATH packet, egress node did
   not send corresponding RESV message packet in response, ingress node
   did not receive that RESV packet, or) the egress did not receive the
   PathTear.

   The LSP graceful release delay from egress node to ingress node at T
   is dT, means that egress node sent the first bit of a RESV message
   including Admin Status Object with setting the Reflect (R) and Delete
   (D) bits to ingress node at wire-time T, that ingress node received
   the packet, then immediately sent a PathTear message downstream to
   egress node.  The ingress node sends out PathTear downstream to
   remove the LSP, and egress node received the last bit of PathTear
   packet at wire-time T+dT.

   The LSP graceful release delay from egress node to ingress node at T
   is undefined (informally, infinite), means that egress node sent the
   first bit of RESV message including Admin Status Object with setting
   the Reflect (R) and Delete (D) bits to ingress node at wire-time T
   and that (either ingress node did not receive the RESV packet,
   ingress node did not send PathTear message packet in response or) the
   egress did not receive the PathTear.

8.6.  Discussion

   The following issues are likely to come up in practice:

   o  In the first (second) circumstance, the accuracy of LSP graceful
      release delay at time T depends on the clock resolution in the
      ingress (egress) node.  In the first circumstance, synchronization
      between the ingress node and egress node is required; but not in
      the second circumstance;

   o  A given methodology has to include a way to determine whether a
      latency value is infinite or whether it is merely very large.
      Simple upper bounds could be used.  But the upper bound should be
      chosen carefully in practice;





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   o  In the first circumstance, if ingress node sent out PATH message
      including Admin Status Object with the Reflect (R) and Delete (D)
      bits set to initiate LSP graceful release, but never receive
      corresponding RESV message, LSP graceful release delay is deemed
      to be infinite.  In the second circumstance, if egress node sent
      out RESV message including Admin Status Object with the Reflect
      (R) and Delete (D) bits set to initiate LSP graceful release, but
      never receive corresponding PathTear message, LSP graceful release
      delay is deemed to be infinite;

   o  It is possible that some node(s) along an LSP will not support the
      Admin Status Object.  In the case of a non-supporting intermediate
      node(s), the object will pass through the node(s) unmodified and
      normal processing can continue.  In the case of a non-supporting
      ingress/egress node, the Admin Status Object will not be reflected
      back in the RESV Message.  To support the case of a non-supporting
      ingress/egress node, the ingress (egress in the second
      circumstance) SHOULD only wait a configurable period of time for
      the updated Admin Status Object in a RESV message.  Once the
      period of time has elapsed, the ingress (egress in the second
      circumstance) node sends out a PathTear message to delete LSP.

8.7.  Methodologies

   In the first circumstance, the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  Make sure the LSP to be deleted is set up;

   o  At the egress node, form the RESV message including Admin Status
      Object with the Reflect (R) and Delete (D) bits set.  A timestamp
      (T1) may be stored locally in the egress node when the PATH
      message packet is sent towards the ingress node;

   o  Intermediate nodes process the Admin Status Object as described in
      [RFC2330], and forward the PATH message to the ingress node;

   o  Upon receiving the Admin Status Object with the Reflect (R) and
      Delete (D) bits set in the RESV message, the ingress node sends a
      PathTear message downstream to remove the LSP;

   o  When the egress node receive the Admin Status Object with the
      Delete (D) bit set in the RESV message, the ingress node sends a
      PathTear message to remove the LSP;

   o  When the egress node receives the PathTear message, take a
      timestamp (T2) as soon as possible.  The LSP graceful release
      delay (T2-T1) is this timestamp minus the initial one.




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   In the second circumstance, the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  Make sure the LSP to be deleted is set up;

   o  At the initiator node (egress node in this case), form the RESV
      message including Admin Status Object with the Reflect (R) and
      Delete (D) bits set.  A timestamp may be stored locally in the
      initiator node when the PATH message packet is sent towards the
      terminator node;

   o  Intermediate nodes process the Admin Status Object as described in
      [RFC2330], and forward the PATH message to the terminator node;

   o  Upon receiving the Admin Status Object with the Reflect (R) and
      Delete (D) bits set in the RESV message, the terminator node sends
      a PathTear message downstream to remove the LSP;

   o  When the initiator node receives the PathTear message, take a
      timestamp as soon as possible.  The LSP graceful release delay is
      this timestamp minus the initial one.































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9.  A Definition for Samples of LSP Graceful Release Delay

   In the previous part, we define the singleton metric of LSP graceful
   release delay.  Now we define how to get one particular sample of LSP
   graceful release delay.  We also use Poisson sampling as an example.

9.1.  Metric Name

   LSP graceful release delay sample

9.2.  Metric Parameters

   o  ID0, the ingress LSR ID

   o  ID1, the egress LSR ID

   o  T0, a time

   o  Tf, a time

   o  Lambda, a rate in reciprocal seconds

   o  Td, the 'reasonable' threshold

9.3.  Metric Units

   A sequence of pairs; the elements of each pair are:

   o  T, a time, and

   o  dT, either a real number or an undefined number of seconds.

   The values of T in the sequence are monotonical increasing.  Note
   that T would be a valid parameter to LSP graceful release delay
   sample and that dT would be a valid value of LSP graceful release
   delay.

9.4.  Definition

   Given T0, Tf, and lambda, we compute a pseudo-random Poisson process
   beginning at or before T0, with average arrival rate lambda, and
   ending at or after Tf.  Those time values greater than or equal to T0
   and less than or equal to Tf are then selected.  At each of the times
   in this process, we obtain the value of LSP graceful release delay
   sample at this time.  The value of the sample is the sequence made up
   of the resulting <time, LSP graceful release delay> pairs.  If there
   are no such pairs, the sequence is of length zero and the sample is
   said to be empty.



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9.5.  Discussion

   The parameter lambda should be carefully chosen.  If the rate is too
   large, too frequent LSP setup/release procedure results in high
   overhead in the control plane.  In turn, the high overhead will
   increase unidirectional LSP setup delay.  On the other hand if the
   rate is too small, the sample could not completely reflect the
   dynamic provisioning performance of the GMPLS network.  The
   appropriate lambda value depends on the given network.

9.6.  Methodologies

   Generally the methodology would proceed as follows:

   o  Setup the LSP to be deleted

   o  The selection of specific times, using the specified Poisson
      arrival process, and

   o  Release the LSP as the methodology for the singleton LSP graceful
      release delay, and obtain the value of LSP graceful release delay

   o  Setup the LSP, and restart the Poisson arrival process, wait for
      the next Poisson arrival process



























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10.  Some Statistics Definitions for Metrics to Report

   Given the samples of the performance metric, we now offer several
   statistics of these samples to report.  From these statistics, we can
   draw some useful conclusions of a GMPLS network.  The value of these
   metrics is either a real number, or an undefined (informally,
   infinite) number of seconds.  In the following discussion, we only
   consider the finite values.

10.1.  The Minimum of Metric

   The minimum of metric is the minimum of all the dT values in the
   sample.  In computing this, undefined values are treated as
   infinitely large.  Note that this means that the minimum could thus
   be undefined (informally, infinite) if all the dT values are
   undefined.  In addition, the metric minimum is undefined if the
   sample is empty.

10.2.  The Median of Metric

   Metric median is the median of the dT values in the given sample.  In
   computing the median, the undefined values are not counted in.

10.3.  The percentile of Metric

   Given a metric and a percent X between 0% and 100%, the Xth
   percentile of all the dT values in the sample.  In addition, the
   unidirectional LSP setup delay percentile is undefined if the sample
   is empty.

   Example: suppose we take a sample and the results are: Stream1 = <
   <T1, 100 msec>, <T2, 110 msec>, <T3, undefined>, <T4, 90 msec>, <T5,
   500 msec> >

   Then the 50th percentile would be 110 msec, since 90 msec and 100
   msec are smaller, and 110 and 500 msec are larger (undefined values
   are not counted in).

10.4.  The failure probability

   In the process of LSP setup/release, it may fail for some reason.
   The failure probability is the ratio of the failure times to the
   total times.








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11.  Discussion

   It is worthwhile to point out that:

   o  The unidirectional/bidirectional LSP setup delay is one ingress-
      egress round trip time plus processing time.  But in the draft,
      unidirectional/bidirectional LSP setup delay has not taken the
      processing time in the end nodes (ingress or/and egress) into
      account.  The timestamp T2 is taken after the endpoint node
      receives it.  Actually, the last node has to take some time to
      process local procedure.  Similarly, in the LSP graceful release
      delay, the memo has not considered the processing time in the
      endpoint node.

   o  All these metrics are defined from the point of control plane's
      view.  In fact, the control plane and data plane are not always
      synchronized.  In some cases, the LSPs have been set up in the
      control plane.  But the data can not be forwarded immediately.
      The unidirectional/bidirectional LSP setup delay in the data plane
      is longer than in the control plane.































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12.  Security Considerations

   The security considerations pertaining to the original RSVP protocol
   [RFC2205] and its TE extensions [RFC3209] remain relevant.















































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13.  Acknowledgements

   This document contains ideas as well as text that have appeared in
   existing IETF documents.  The authors wish to thank G. Almes, S.
   Kalidindi and M. Zekauskas.  We also wish to thank Weisheng Hu,
   Yaohui Jin and Wei Guo in the state key laboratory of advanced
   optical communication systems and networks for the valuable comments.
   We also wish to thank the support from NSFC and 863 program of China.











































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14.  Normative References

   [RFC2119]  Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
              Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.

   [RFC2205]  Braden, B., Zhang, L., Berson, S., Herzog, S., and S.
              Jamin, "Resource ReSerVation Protocol (RSVP) -- Version 1
              Functional Specification", RFC 2205, September 1997.

   [RFC2330]  Paxson, V., Almes, G., Mahdavi, J., and M. Mathis,
              "Framework for IP Performance Metrics", RFC 2330,
              May 1998.

   [RFC2679]  Almes, G., Kalidindi, S., and M. Zekauskas, "A One-way
              Delay Metric for IPPM", RFC 2679, September 1999.

   [RFC2681]  Almes, G., Kalidindi, S., and M. Zekauskas, "A Round-trip
              Delay Metric for IPPM", RFC 2681, September 1999.

   [RFC3209]  Awduche, D., Berger, L., Gan, D., Li, T., Srinivasan, V.,
              and G. Swallow, "RSVP-TE: Extensions to RSVP for LSP
              Tunnels", RFC 3209, December 2001.

   [RFC3473]  Berger, L., "Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching
              (GMPLS) Signaling Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic
              Engineering (RSVP-TE) Extensions", RFC 3473, January 2003.

   [RFC3945]  Mannie, E., "Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching
              (GMPLS) Architecture", RFC 3945, October 2004.

   [RFC4208]  Swallow, G., Drake, J., Ishimatsu, H., and Y. Rekhter,
              "Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) User-
              Network Interface (UNI): Resource ReserVation Protocol-
              Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Support for the Overlay
              Model", RFC 4208, October 2005.
















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Authors' Addresses

   Guowu Xie
   Shanghai Jiao Tong University
   800 Dongchuan Road
   Shanghai  200240
   CN

   Phone: +86 21 3420 4596
   Email: blithe@sjtu.edu.cn


   Weiqiang Sun
   Shanghai Jiao Tong University
   800 Dongchuan Road
   Shanghai  200240
   CN

   Phone: +86 21 3420 5359
   Email: sunwq@sjtu.edu.cn


   Guoying Zhang
   China Academy of Telecommunication Research,MII.
   Beijing  200240
   CN

   Phone: +86 1068094272
   Email: zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn


   Jianghui Han
   IXIA
   Oriental Kenzo Plaza 8M,48 Dongzhimen Wai Street,Dongcheng District
   Beijing  200240
   CN

   Phone: +86 13801156004
   Email: JHan@ixiacom.com












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   Xueqing Wei
   Fiberhome Telecommunicaiton Technology Co.,Ltd.
   Wuhan
   CN

   Phone: +86 13871127882
   Email: xqwei@fiberhome.com.cn


   Jianhua Gao
   Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.
   CN

   Phone: +86 755 28973237
   Email: gjhhit@huawei.com




































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Delivery-date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 03:13:31 +0000
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:10:43 +0800
From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Subject: Updated draft-li-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-01.txt
To: ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Deborah A, Brungard" <dbrungard@att.com>, Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com
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Dear,

We have posted an updated I-D: draft-li-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-01.txt for which your comments are very welcome! The following is the abstract of this I-D, please check out the attachment for details.

Abstract 

   This document defines simple additions to the Link Management 
   Protocol (LMP) to provide a control plane tool that can assist in the 
   location of stranded resources by allowing adjacent LSRs to confirm 
   data channel statuses, and provides triggers for notifying the 
   management plane if any discrepancies are found. 


Best regards,

 
Dan Li
 
Advanced Technology Department
Wireline Networking Business Unit
Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.
Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang,
Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China
Tel: +86-755-28972910
Fax: +86-755-28972935

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<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dear,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">We&nbsp;have posted an&nbsp;updated I-D: 
draft-li-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-01.txt for which your comments are 
very welcome! The following is the abstract of this I-D, please check out the 
attachment for details.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Abstract </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; This document defines simple additions to the Link Management 
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Protocol (LMP) to provide a control plane tool that can assist 
in the <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; location of stranded resources by allowing adjacent LSRs 
to confirm <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; data channel statuses, and provides triggers for 
notifying the <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; management plane if any discrepancies are found. 
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Best regards,</DIV>
<DIV></FONT><FONT 
face="Times New Roman"><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dan Li<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Advanced Technology 
Department<BR>Wireline Networking Business Unit<BR>Huawei Technologies Co., 
LTD.<BR>Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang,<BR>Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China<BR>Tel: 
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 filename=draft-li-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-01.txt

Network Working Group                                          Dan Li 
                                                             Huiying Xu 
                                                                 Huawei 
                                                                       
                                                       Snigdho Bardalai 
                                                                Fujitsu 
Internet Draft 
Category: Standards Track                                             
                                                                       
Expires: August 2007                                    February, 2007 
 
                                      
                Data Channel Status Confirmation Extensions 
                     for the Link Management Protocol 


             draft-li-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-01.txt 


Status of this Memo 

   By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that       
   any applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is       
   aware have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she       
   becomes aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of       
   BCP 79. 

    

   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering 
   Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that 
   other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts. 

   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months 
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   The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at 
        http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt 

   The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at 
        http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 

    

Abstract 

 
 
 
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   This document defines simple additions to the Link Management 
   Protocol (LMP) to provide a control plane tool that can assist in the 
   location of stranded resources by allowing adjacent LSRs to confirm 
   data channel statuses, and provides triggers for notifying the 
   management plane if any discrepancies are found. 

Conventions used in this document 

   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", 
   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this 
   document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. 

Table of Contents 

    
   1. Introduction................................................2 
   2. Problem Explanation.........................................4 
      2.1. Mismatch Caused by Manual Configuration.................4 
      2.2. Mismatch Caused by LSP Deletion.........................5 
      2.3. Manual Change of the Cross-Connection State.............5 
   3. Extensions to LMP...........................................6 
      3.1. Confirm Data Channel Status Messages....................6 
         3.1.1. ConfirmDataChannelStatus Messages..................6 
         3.1.2. ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck Messages...............7 
         3.1.3. ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack Messages..............7 
      3.2. Data Channel Status Subobject...........................8 
   4. Procedures..................................................9 
   5. Security Considerations.....................................10 
   6. IANA Considerations........................................10 
      6.1. LMP Message Types......................................10 
      6.2. LMP Data Link Object Subobject.........................10 
   7. Acknowledgments............................................11 
   8. References.................................................11 
      8.1. Normative References...................................11 
      8.2. Informative References.................................11 
   9. Author's Addresses.........................................12 
   10. Full Copyright Statement...................................12 
   11. Intellectual Property Statement............................13 
    
1. Introduction 

   A data channel status mismatch exists if the Label Switching Router 
   (LSR) at one end of a Traffic Engineering (TE) link believes that the 
   data channel is assigned to carry data, but the LSR at the other end 
   does not. The term "ready to carry data" means cross-connected or 
   bound to an end-point for the receipt or delivery of data.  

 
 
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   Data channel mismatches cannot be detected from the TE information 
   advertised by the routing protocols [RFC4203], [RFC4205]. A data 
   channel in this context corresponds to a resource label in a non-
   packet technology (such as a timeslot or a lambda), and this 
   information is not part of the TE information advertised by the 
   routing protocols. The existence of some problem may be detected by a 
   mismatch in the advertised bandwidths where bidirectional TE links 
   and bidirectional services are in use, but where unidirectional 
   services exist, or where multiple data channel mismatches occur, it 
   is not possible to detect such errors through the routing protocol-
   advertised TE information. In any case, there is no mechanism to 
   isolate the mismatches. 

   If a data channel mismatch exists, any attempt to use the data 
   channel for a new LSP will fail. One end of the TE link may attempt 
   to assign the TE link for use, but the other end will report the data 
   channel as unavailable when the control plane or management plane 
   attempts to assign it to an LSP. 

   Although such a situation can be resolved through the use of the 
   Acceptable Label Set object in GMPLS signaling [RFC3473], such a 
   procedure is inefficient since it may require an additional signaling 
   exchange for each LSP that is set up. When many LSPs are to be set up, 
   and when there are many data channel mismatches, such inefficiencies 
   become significant. It is desirable to avoid the additional signaling 
   overhead, and to report the problems to the management plane so that 
   they can be resolved to improve the efficiency of LSP setup. 

   Correspondingly, such a mismatch situation may give rise to 
   misconnections in the data plane especially when LSPs are set up 
   using management plane operations. 

   Resources (data channels) that are in a mismatched state are often 
   described as "stranded resources". They are not in use for any LSP, 
   but they cannot be assigned for use by a new LSP because they appear 
   to be in use. Although it is theoretically possible for management 
   plane applications to audit all network resources to locate stranded 
   resources and to release them, this process is rarely performed 
   because of the difficulty of coordinating different Element 
   Management Systems (EMSs), and the associated risks of accidentally 
   releasing in-use resources. It is desirable to have a control plane 
   mechanism that detects and reports stranded resources. 

   This document defines simple additions to the Link Management 
   Protocol (LMP) [RFC4204] to provide a control plane tool that can 
   assist in the location of stranded resources by allowing adjacent 

 
 
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   LSRs to confirm data channel statuses, and provides triggers for 
   notifying the management plane if any discrepancies are found. 

2. Problem Explanation 

   Examples of data channel mismatches are described in the following 
   three scenarios. 

   In all of the scenarios, the specific channel resource of a data link 
   will be unavailable because of the data channel status mismatch, and 
   this channel resource will be wasted. Furthermore, a data channel 
   status mismatch may reduce the possibility of successful LSP 
   establishment, because a data channel status mismatch may result in 
   failure when establishing an LSP.  

   So it is desirable to confirm the data channel statuses as early as 
   possible. 

2.1. Mismatch Caused by Manual Configuration 

   The operator may have configured a cross-connection at only one end 
   of a TE link using an EMS. The resource at one end of the data 
   channel is allocated, but the corresponding resource is still 
   available at the other end of the same data channel. In this case, 
   the data channel may appear to be available for use by the control 
   plane when viewed from one end of the TE link, but will be considered 
   to be unavailable by the other end of the TE link. Alternatively, the 
   available end of the data channel may be cross-connected by the 
   management plane and a misconnection may result from the fact that 
   the other end of the data channel is already cross-connected. 

   Figure 1 shows a data channel between nodes A and B. Only the 
   resource at A end is allocated by manual configuration, while the 
   resource at B end is available, so the data channel status is 
   mismatched. 

                    allocated      available 
                       +-+------------+-+ 
                    A  |x|            | |  B 
                       +-+------------+-+ 
                            data channel              
         Figure 1. Mismatch caused by manual configuration 
    



 
 
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2.2. Mismatch Caused by LSP Deletion 

   The channel status of a data link may become mismatched during the 
   LSP deletion process. If the LSP deletion process is aborted in the 
   middle of the process (perhaps because of a temporary control plane 
   failure), the cross-connection at the upstream node may be removed 
   while the downstream node still keeps its cross-connection, if the 
   LSP deletion was initiated by the source node. 

   For example, in Figure 2 an LSP traverses nodes A, B, and C. Node B 
   resets abnormally when the LSP is being deleted, which results in the 
   cross-connections of node A and C being removed, but the cross-
   connection of node B is still in use. So the data channel status 
   between nodes A and B, and between nodes B and C are both mismatched. 

                       <---------LSP---------> 
                       +-+-------+-+-------+-+          
                       | |       |X|       | |            
                       +-+-------+-+-------+-+     
                        A         B         C  
             Figure 2. Mismatch caused by LSP deletion  

   RSVP-TE restart processes [RFC3473], [GR-EXT] define mechanisms where 
   adjacent LSRs may resynchronize their control plane state to 
   reinstate information about LSPs that have persisted in the data 
   plane. The mechanisms allow LSRs to detect mismatched data plane 
   state after the expiry of the Recovery Timer. It is a local policy 
   decision how this mismatched state should be handled. Some 
   deployments may decide to automatically clean up the data plane state 
   so it matches the control plane state, but others may choose to raise 
   an alert to the management plane and leave the data plane untouched 
   just in case it is in use. 

   In such cases, data channel mismatches may arise after restart and 
   might not be cleared up by the restart procedures. 

2.3. Manual Change of the Cross-Connection State 

   In transport nodes it is possible to perform certain manual 
   operations on a cross-connection such as forced protection switch, 
   red-line etc. These operations will make it impossible to release the 
   cross-connection when an LSP is being deleted.  




 
 
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3. Extensions to LMP 

   A control plane tool to detect and isolate data channel mismatches is 
   provided in this document by simple additions to the Link Management 
   Protocol (LMP) [RFC4204]. It can assist in the location of stranded 
   resources by allowing adjacent LSRs to confirm data channel statuses. 

   Outline procedures are described in this section. More detailed 
   procedures are found in Section 4. 

3.1. Confirm Data Channel Status Messages  

   Extensions to LMP to confirm a data channel status are described 
   below. In order to confirm a data channel status, the new LMP 
   messages are sent between adjacent nodes periodically or driven by 
   some event (such as an operator command, a configurable timer, or the 
   rejection of an LSP setup message because of an unavailable resource). 

   Three new messages are defined to check data channel status. Message 
   Type numbers are found in Section 7. 

3.1.1. ConfirmDataChannelStatus Messages 

   The ConfirmDataChannelStatus message is used to tell the remote end 
   of the data channel what the status of the local end of the data 
   channel is, and to ask the remote end to report its data channel. The 
   message may report on (and request information about) more than one 
   data channel. 

   <ConfirmDataChannelStatus Message> ::= <Common Header> 
                                          <LOCAL_LINK_ID> 
                                          <MESSAGE_ID> 
                                          <DATA_LINK>[<DATA_LINK>...] 
    
   When a node receives the ConfirmDataChannelStatus message, and the 
   data channel status confirmation procedure is supported at the node, 
   the node compares its own data channel statuses with all of the data 
   channel statuses sent by the remote end in the 
   ConfirmDataChannelStatus message. If a data channel status mismatch 
   is found, this mismatch result SHOULD be reported to the management 
   plane for further action. Management plane reporting procedures and 
   actions are outside the scope of this document. 

 



 
 
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3.1.2. ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck Messages 

   The ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck message is sent back to the node 
   which originated the ConfirmDataChannelStatus message to return the 
   requested data channel statuses. 

   When the ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck message is received, the node 
   compares the received data channel statuses at the remote end with 
   those at the local end (the same operation as performed by the 
   receiver of the ConfirmDataChannelStatus message). If a data channel 
   status mismatch is found, the mismatch result SHOULD be reported to 
   the management plane for further action. 

   <ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck Message> ::= <Common Header> 
                                             <MESSAGE_ID_ACK> 
                                             <DATA_LINK>[<DATA_LINK>...] 
    

   The contents of the MESSAGE_ID_ACK objects MUST be obtained from the 
   ConfirmDataChannelStatus message being acknowledged. 

   Note that the ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck message is used both when 
   the data channel statuses match and when they do not match. 

3.1.3. ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack Messages 

   When a node receives the ConfirmDataChannelStatus message, if the 
   data channel status confirmation procedure is not supported but the 
   message is recognized, a ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack message 
   containing an ERROR_CODE indicating "Channel Status Confirmation 
   Procedure not supported" MUST be sent. 

   If the data channel status confirmation procedure is supported, but 
   the node is unable to begin the procedure, a 
   ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack message containing an ERROR_CODE 
   indicating "Unwilling to Confirm" MUST be sent. If a 
   ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack message is received with such an 
   ERROR_CODE, the node which originated the ConfirmDataChannelStatus 
   message MAY schedule the ConfirmDataChannelStatus message 
   retransmission after a configured time. A default value of 10 minutes 
   is suggested for this timer. 






 
 
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   <ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack Message> ::= <Common Header> 
                                              [<LOCAL_LINK_ID>] 
                                              <MESSAGE_ID_ACK> 
                                              <ERROR_CODE> 
     
   The contents of the MESSAGE_ID_ACK objects MUST be obtained from the 
   ConfirmDataChannelStatus message being rejected. 

3.2. Data Channel Status Subobject 

   A new Data Channel Status subobject type is introduced to the DATA 
   LINK object to hold the data channel status and Data Channel 
   Identification. 

   See Section 7 for the Subobject Type value. 

    0                   1                   2                   3 
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |    Type       |    Length     |     Data Channel Status       | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |                                                               | 
   //                      Data Channel ID                        // 
   |                                                               | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
    
   Data Channel Status: 

   This is a series of bit flags to indicate the status of the data 
   channel. The following values are defined. 

   0x0000 : The channel is available/free. 
   0x0001 : The channel is cross-connected/allocated. 
    
   Data Channel ID 

   This identifies the data channel. The length of this field can be 
   deduced from the Length field in the subobject. Note that all 
   subobjects must be padded to a four byte boundary with trailing zeros. 
   If such padding is required, the Length field MUST indicate the 
   length of the subobject up to, but not including, the first byte of 
   padding. Thus, the amount of padding is deduced and not represented 
   in the Length field. 

   Note that the Data Channel ID is given in the context of the sender 
   of the ConfirmChannelStatus message. 

 
 
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   The data-channel ID must be encoded as a label value. Based on the 
   type of signal e.g. SONET/SDH, Lambda etc. the encoding methodology 
   used will be different. For SONET/SDH the label value is encoded as 
   per RFC4606. 

4. Procedures 

   The data channel status confirmation related LMP messages are sent 
   between adjacent nodes periodically or driven by some events to 
   confirm the channel status for the data links. The procedure is 
   described below: 

   . The SENDER constructs a ConfirmDataChannelStatus message which 
      contains one or more DATA_LINK objects. Each DATA_LINK object 
      contains one or more Data Channel Status subobject. The Data 
      Channel ID field in the Data Channel Status subobject indicates 
      which data channel needs to be confirmed, and reports the data 
      channel status at the SENDER. The ConfirmDataChannelStatus message 
      is sent to the RECEIVER. 

   . The RECEIVER extracts the data channel statuses from the 
      ConfirmDataChannelStatus message, and compares these with its data 
      channel statuses for the reported data channels. If a data channel 
      status mismatch is found, the mismatch result SHOULD be reported 
      to the management plane for further action. The RECEIVER also 
      sends the ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck message which carries all 
      the local end statuses of the requested data channels to the 
      SENDER. 

   . If the RECEIVER is not able to support or to begin the 
      confirmation procedure, the ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack message 
      MUST be responded with the ERROR_CODE which indicates the reason 
      of rejection. 

   . The SENDER receives the response ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck 
      message, and compares the received data channel statuses at the 
      remote end with the data channel statuses at the local end. If a 
      data channel status mismatch is found, the mismatch result SHOULD 
      be reported to the management plane for further action. 

   . The ConfirmDataChannelStatus message SHOULD be resent, if the 
      ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack message is received or no response 
      message is received in the configured time by the SENDER. 

   The data channel status mismatch results MAY be stored, and this 
   information MAY be queried in the future. 

 
 
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   The data channel status mismatch issue warned about by LMP may be 
   automatically resolved by RSVP restart. For example, the restarting 
   node may also have damaged its data plane. This leaves the data 
   channels mismatched. But RSVP restart will re-install the data plane 
   state in the restarting node. 

5. Security Considerations 

   [RFC4204] describes how LMP messages between peers can be secured, 
   and these measures are equally applicable to the new messages defined 
   in this document. 

   The operation of the procedures described in this document does not 
   of themselves constitute a security risk since they do not cause any 
   change in network state. It would be possible, if the messages were 
   intercepted or spoofed to cause bogus alerts in the management plane 
   and so the use of the LMP security measures are RECOMMENDED. 

   Note that operating the procedures described in this document may 
   provide a useful additional security measure to verify that data 
   channels have not been illicitly modified. 

6. IANA Considerations 

6.1. LMP Message Types 

   IANA maintains the "Link Management Protocol (LMP)" registry which 
   has a subregistry called "LMP Message Type". IANA is requested to 
   make three new allocations from this registry as follows. The message 
   type values are suggested and to be confirmed by IANA. 

    

    Value    Description               
   -------   --------------------------------- 
        21   ConfirmDataChannelStatus 
        22   ConfirmDataChannelStatusAck 
        23   ConfirmDataChannelStatusNack 
    

6.2. LMP Data Link Object Subobject 

   IANA maintains the "Link Management Protocol (LMP)" registry which 
   has a subregistry called "LMP Object Class name space and Class type 
   (C-Type)". This subregistry has an entry for the DATA_LINK object, 
   and there is a further embedded registry called "DATA_LINK Sub-object 
   Class name space". IANA is requested to make the following allocation 
 
 
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   from this embedded registry. The value shown is suggested and to be 
   confirmed by IANA. 

                       Value    Description           
                       -------  ---------------------  
                           9    Data Channel Status 
    

7. Acknowledgments 

   We would like to thank Adrian Farrel, Dimitri Papadimitriou and Diego 
   Caviglia for their useful comments. 

8. References 

8.1. Normative References 

   [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate 
               Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. 

   [RFC4204] J. Lang, Ed., "Link Management Protocol (LMP) ", RFC 4204, 
               October 2005. 

8.2. Informative References 

   [RFC3473]  L. Berger, Ed., "Generalized Multi-Protocol Label 
               Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Resource ReserVation 
               Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Extensions", RFC 
               3473, January 2003 

    [GR-EXT]   A. Satyanarayana, R. Rahman, "Extensions to GMPLS RSVP 
               Graceful Restart", Internet Draft, work in progress, 
               draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-05.txt, October 2005 

   [RFC4203]  K. Kompella, Ed., "OSPF Extensions in Support of 
               Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)", RFC 
               4203, October 2005 

   [RFC4205]  K. Kompella, Ed., "Intermediate System to Intermediate 
               System (IS-IS) Extensions in Support of Generalized 
               Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)", RFC 4205, 
               October 2005 





 
 
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9. Author's Addresses 

   Dan Li 
   Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. 
   F3-5-B R&D Center, Huawei Base, 
   Bantian, Longgang District 
   Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China 
    
   Phone: +86-755-28972910 
   Email: danli@huawei.com 
    

   Huiying Xu 
   Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. 
   F3-5-B R&D Center, Huawei Base, 
   Bantian, Longgang District 
   Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China 
    
   Phone: +86-755-28972909 
   Email: xuhuiying@huawei.com 
    

   Fatai Zhang 
   Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. 
   F3-5-B R&D Center, Huawei Base, 
   Bantian, Longgang District 
   Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China 
      
   Phone: +86-755-28979791 
   Email: zhangfatai@huawei.com 
    

   Snigdho C. Bardalai 
   Fujitsu Network Communications, Inc. 
   2801 Telecom Parkway, 
   Richardson, Texas 75082 
   United States of America 
    
   Phone: +1 972 479 2951 
   Email: snigdho.bardalai@us.fujitsu.com 
    

10. Full Copyright Statement 

   Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). 


 
 
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draft-li-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-01.txt         February 2007 
    

   This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions 
   contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors 
   retain all their rights. 

   This document and the information contained herein are provided on an 
   "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS 
   OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND 
   THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS 
   OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF 
   THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED 
   WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. 

11. Intellectual Property Statement 

   The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any 
   Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to 
   pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in 
   this document or the extent to which any license under such rights 
   might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has 
   made any independent effort to identify any such rights.  Information 
   on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be 
   found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. 

   Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any 
   assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an 
   attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of 
   such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this 
   specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at 
   http://www.ietf.org/ipr. 

   The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any 
   copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary 
   rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement 
   this standard.  Please address the information to the IETF at 
   ietf-ipr@ietf.org. 

   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering 
   Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that other 
   groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- Drafts. 

   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum  of six 
   months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents 
   at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference 
   material or to cite them other than as "work in progress". 

    

 
 
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--Boundary_(ID_6+BivNCuVBArTINMcMD07Q)--



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:03:05 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: Greg Jones <greg.jones@itu.int>
Cc: Stephen Trowbridge <sjtrowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>, Kam Lam <hklam@alcatel-lucent.com>, Scott Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>, CCAMP <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Recent GMPLS and ASON-Related RFCs  publ;ished" 
Reply-To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Message-Id: <E1HJzXp-0007c0-Q2@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:02:37 -0500

Title: Recent GMPLS and ASON-Related RFCs publ;ished
Submission Date: 2007-02-21
URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=301 

From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: ITU-T Study Group 15(Greg Jones <greg.jones@itu.int>)
Cc: Stephen Trowbridge <sjtrowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>
Kam Lam <hklam@alcatel-lucent.com>
Scott Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>
Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>
CCAMP <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Purpose: For information 
Body: The IETF's CCAMP working group is pleased to inform Study 
Group 15 of the ITU-T of the publication of several new 
RFCs that are relevant to the work that you are doing with
optical and packet transport networks. Several of these 
RFCs received useful review and input from Study Group 15
participants for which CCAMP would like to express its 
thanks.


RFC 4558
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4558.txt
Title
   Node-ID Based Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP)
   Hello: A Clarification Statement
Abstract
   Use of Node-ID based Resource Reservation Protocol
   (RSVP) Hello messages is implied in a number of cases,
   e.g., when data and control planes are separated, when 
   TE links are unnumbered.  Furthermore, when link level 
   failure detection is performed by some means other than
   exchanging RSVP Hello messages, use of a Node-ID based 
   Hello session is optimal for detecting signaling 
   adjacency failure for Resource reSerVation Protocol-
   Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE). Nonetheless, this implied
   behavior is unclear, and this document formalizes use of
   the Node-ID based RSVP Hello session in some scenarios. 
   The procedure described in this document applies to both
   Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized
   MPLS (GMPLS) capable nodes.


RFC 4652
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4652.txt
Title
   Evaluation of Existing Routing Protocols against
   Automatic Switched Optical Network (ASON) Routing
   Requirements
Abstract
   The Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) suite of protocols has been
   defined to control different switching technologies as
   well as different applications.  These include support
   for requesting TDM connections including Synchronous 
   Optical Network/Synchronous Digital Hierarchy
   (SONET/SDH) and Optical Transport Networks (OTNs).

   This document provides an evaluation of the IETF Routing
   Protocols against the routing requirements for an 
   Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) as defined
   by ITU-T.


RFC 4726
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4726.txt
Title
   A Framework for Inter-Domain Multiprotocol Label 
   Switching Traffic Engineering
Abstract
   This document provides a framework for establishing and
   controlling Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and 
   Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineered (TE) Label 
   Switched Paths (LSPs) in multi-domain networks.

   For the purposes of this document, a domain is
   considered to be any collection of network elements 
   within a common sphere of address management or path
   computational responsibility.  Examples of such domains
   include Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP) areas and 
   Autonomous Systems (ASes).


RFC 4736
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4736.txt
Title
   Reoptimization of Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) 
   Traffic Engineering (TE) Loosely Routed Label Switched 
   Path (LSP)
Abstract
   This document defines a mechanism for the reoptimization
   of loosely routed MPLS and GMPLS (Generalized 
   Multiprotocol Label Switching) Traffic Engineering (TE) 
   Label Switched Paths (LSPs) signaled with Resource 
   Reservation Protocol Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE).  
   This document proposes a mechanism that allows a TE LSP
   head-end Label Switching Router (LSR) to trigger a new 
   path re-evaluation on every hop that has a next hop 
   defined as a loose or abstract hop and a mid-point LSR
   to signal to the head-end LSR that a better path exists
   (compared to the current path) or that the TE LSP must 
   be reoptimized (because of maintenance required on the 
   TE LSP path).  The proposed mechanism applies to the 
   cases of intra- and inter-domain (Interior Gateway
   Protocol area (IGP area) or Autonomous System) packet
   and non-packet TE LSPs following a loosely routed path.


RFC 4783
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4783.txt
Title
   GMPLS - Communication of Alarm Information
Abstract
   This document describes an extension to Generalized MPLS
   (Multi-Protocol Label Switching) signaling to support 
   communication of alarm information.  GMPLS signaling 
   already supports the control of alarm reporting, but not
   the communication of alarm information.  This document 
   presents both a functional description and GMPLS-RSVP
   specifics of such an extension.  This document also 
   proposes modification of the RSVP ERROR_SPEC object.

   This document updates RFC 3473, "Generalized Multi-
   Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Resource
   ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) 
   Extensions", through the addition of new, optional 
   protocol elements.  It does not change, and is fully
   backward compatible with, the procedures specified in
   RFC 3473.


All IETF RFCs can be downloaded for free from
http://www.ietf.org/rfc.html

The current work plan and progress status of the CCAMP
working group can be viewed at 
http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ccamp-charter.html

The CCAMP working group welcomes questions and discussion
about all of its work from individuals or organisations. 
The CCAMP mailing list is open to anyone. Details of
subscription can be found on the CCAMP charter page.

Regards,
Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard
CCAMP Working Group chairs
Attachment(s):
No document has been attached





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:36:38 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: Greg Jones <greg.jones@itu.int>
Cc: Kam Lam <hklam@alcatel-lucent.com>, Stephen Trowbridge <sjtrowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, Scot Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>, Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>, CCAMP <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Response to your liaison on current ASON  work in CCAMP" 
Reply-To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Message-Id: <E1HJz6S-0006mG-Jr@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:34:20 -0500

Title: Response to your liaison on current ASON work in CCAMP
Submission Date: 2007-02-21
URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=300 
Please reply by 2007-03-16

From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: ITU-T Study Group 15 Question 14(Greg Jones <greg.jones@itu.int>)
Cc: Kam Lam <hklam@alcatel-lucent.com>
Stephen Trowbridge <sjtrowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>
Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Scot Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>
Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>
CCAMP <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Purpose: For action 
Body: The CCAMP Working Group thanks Q14/15 for their detailed
response (COM 15-LS126) reviewing <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-
ason-routing-ospf-02.txt> and <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-
te-call-01.txt>.

Regarding your comments on <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-
routing-ospf-02.txt>:

1.1 <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf-02.txt>
    addresses the requirements set out in RFC 4258 that was
    based on G.7715.1 (2003) which did not address multi-
    layer networks.

    Our work on Multi-layer and Multi-region Networks
    addresses the additional requirements of multi-layer
    networks. You may find the latest copies of Internet-
    Drafts that discuss the requirements for multi-layer
    networks and analyze the existing protocols against
    those requirements on the CCAMP web site
    (www.ietf.org/html.charters/ccamp-charter.html). A
    separate draft (draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-
    extensions) has started to specify the necessary
    protocol extensions for this work.

    You are correct in your understanding of the Interface
    Switching Capabilities Descriptor (ISCD): this will
    very probably require some extensions in support of
    multi-layer networks. The information that you supplied
    may be very helpful in a detailed analysis of exactly
    what extensions are required, and we invite interested
    members of your group to participate in this work via
    the CCAMP mailing list.

    Please keep us informed as you evolve ASON to include
    multi-layer networks and any related GMPLS protocol
    requirements.

1.2 We understand the architectural possibility of an n:1
    or m:n relationship between Routing Controllers (RCs)
    and Transport Nodes, although we have yet to hear from
    anyone who wishes to implement or deploy in this ratio.
    We remind you that in this Internet-Draft Li is not a
    physical entity (transport node), but is a logical
    control plane entity that is "associated to a single
    data plane (abstract) node". As in G.7715, no
    distinction is made between data plane nodes that may
    have further internal details (i.e., abstract nodes)
    and those that cannot be decomposed any further. Thus,
    while the relationship Ri:Li can only be 1:n (for n >=
    1), the relationship Ri:Pi can be m:n (for m and n >=
    1). This provides function in keeping with the
    architecture.

    You are correct that an implementation of an Li:Pi
    ratio of n:1 (for n > 1) might choose to use virtual
    links between the Li instances. But we disagree with
    your interpretation that a GMPLS TE link cannot be
    advertised as "available for all possible constraints".
    If you have a specific scenario in mind arising from
    your implementation please discuss it with us and we
    will be happy to explain further. We agree that an
    implementation that chose to partition a Pi into
    multiple Li instances by sharing the same TE link
    between multiple Li instances would be ill-advised,
    and we note that it is unlikely to be a recommendation
    that multiple RCs advertise the same resource when they
    are advertising for the same Pi.

    We stress again that there are two focuses of this
    work. Firstly to provide simple and backward compatible
    protocol extensions to support those features of the
    architecture that vendors are implementing and that
    carriers wish to deploy. Secondly to enable all other
    features of the architecture so that, should a vendor
    choose to implement, they are not blocked. But we note
    that the objective of the IETF is to produce solutions
    that are implemented and deployed.

    The second part of this item, regards your concern on
    the limitation of one transport name per RC. As Mr.
    Farrel noted in your meeting, there is no such
    limitation. This Internet-Draft defines the capability
    for an RC to advertise more than one TE Router ID.

    You also express a concern about whether it is possible
    to assign more than one SC (Signaling Communication)
    address per RC. In the light of your observations that:

    1. "the current definition of Router Address TLV does
       not distinguish the identifier for transport plane
       names (i.e., TE Router_ID) from the SC address"; and

    2. "this I-D removes the restriction of one transport
       name per RC"

    we request additional clarification of your concern.

    If your participants are interested in further
    enhancing protocol solutions to support specific
    implementation or deployment scenarios that are an
    immediate concern for them, we invite you to
    participate in CCAMP's protocol work.

1.3 We disagree with your representation that "information
    elements necessary for operation of the protocol or for
    conformance to the ASON routing requirements are stated
    to be optional or non-normative". Consider, for
    example, in section 4.2 where the text states that:

     In the ASON context, accounting on per timeslot basis
     using 32-bit tuples of the form <signal_type (8 bits);
     number of unallocated timeslots (24 bits)> may
     optionally be incorporated in the technology specific
     field of the ISCD TE link attribute when the switching
     capability field is set to TDM value.

    This use of "optionally" is clearly necessary because
    you would not expect timeslot accounting in a WDM
    system.

    The other example you noted is in section 5.2 where the
    Local TE Router ID sub-TLV is defined as "optional and
    SHOULD only be included as part of the top level Link
    TLV if the Router_ID is advertising on behalf of more
    than one TE_Router_ID." There are two degrees to the
    use of the word "optional" in this case:

    1. You must understand that we are defining protocol
       extensions to an existing protocol that is deployed
       in many environments. If we state that the Local TE
       Router ID sub-TLV is mandatory, how would you
       suggest that a normal, legacy OSPF router should
       behave?

    2. The Local TE Router ID sub-TLV is only required if
       the advertisement carries more than one TE Router
       ID. If the protocol element is not required it is
       omitted. Thus it is optional.

    Note also that "optional" in the text does not apply in
    regard to the support of an element (the support is
    mandatory), but is in reference to the use of the
    element.

    Please let us know if there are any other examples of
    optional elements in the Internet-Draft that concern
    you, or please confirm that you are now comfortable
    with the wording.

    Lastly, you ask how we propose to support nodes that do
    not support the ASON extensions. It is certainly
    possible, and indeed likely in early deployments, that
    a subnetwork will be comprised entirely of nodes that
    either support or do not support these extensions. It
    should be noted, however, that it is of the nature of
    the opaque LSA in OSPF that nodes that do not support
    TLVs, sub-TLVs, or the entire LSA will continue to
    flood the information. Thus, within certain limitations
    it is possible to build a mixed network, and this
    choice is left to the operators during network design
    and deployment.

1.4 We are glad that you agree with our assessment that it
    is an essential element of OSPF routing protocol design
    to provide import/export rules to prevent feedback
    loops.

    RFC2966 presents a solution to this problem specific to
    the ISIS protocol, although, as you say, this mechanism
    could be adapted to other protocols.

    But other mechanisms also exist, and the ultimate
    solution that we choose must be agreed not by the ISIS
    community, but by the OSPF community. In this case, the
    choice was made after careful evaluation in cooperation
    with IETF's OSPF Working Group.

    Please let us know whether you have any technical
    issues with the approach we have chosen, and if so,
    what the issues are.

1.5 You say:
      As ITU-T Q14/15 identifies the need for new code
      points in support of evolving transport standards
      (e.g., for new reachability formats, ISCD/IACD), we
      will be counting on CCAMP WG assistance to actively
      facilitate the allocation of code points from IANA.
      (Several ITU-T sector members have already expressed
      interest in supporting TID/AID as an additional
      reachability format.) We look forward to your
      acknowledgment.

    We invite you to read and consider RFC 4775.

    As in the past, CCAMP is pleased to work with you to
    consider your protocol requirements and to advise you
    on the best way to use or extend GMPLS protocols to
    meet the requirements of your sector members. It would
    be premature to accept that new codepoint assignments
    are the appropriate solution before seeing the detailed
    requirements, and we strongly encourage you to provide
    us with any new requirements regarding the use of GMPLS
    before attempting to specify protocol extensions.

1.6

1.6.1 The use of a variety of mechanisms to provide name/
      address translation are certainly not prohibited.
      Note, however, that <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-
      routing-ospf-02.txt> is specific to the OSPF
      protocol, and that RFC 4652 is specific to an
      examination of how to provide the required function
      using routing protocols. Therefore, other mechanisms
      are out of scope of these documents and we have no
      plans to update them.

      We would welcome a separate initiative to document
      other mechanisms that vendors are implementing and
      that carriers propose to deploy.

1.6.2 The point you raise is fundamental to the use of
      addressing in GMPLS, and we recommend careful reading
      of RFC3945 and RFC4202. A thorough understanding of
      naming and addressing in GMPLS is recommended to
      everyone who seeks to implement, deploy, or extend
      the GMPLS protocols.

      The "reachable destination prefix hosted by the
      advertising Router ID" is a GMPLS TE address, not
      ever to be confused with addresses used in IPv4 and
      IPv6 layer networks. The concept of issuing a 'ping'
      in a layer one network is meaningless.

1.6.3 On Section 5.1, yes, this is in reference to control
      plane connectivity as described in the paragraph
      above the note. As described above (1.6.2),
      separation of control plane and data plane is
      fundamental to GMPLS.

      On Section 5.2, refer to discussion above and the use
      of "optional". Again, the use of the word "optional"
      is with regards to the protocol as the phrasing
      applies to any type of link advertisement, even those
      that do not need it (i.e. "should").

1.6.4
  (a) Thank you for this input. We will update the document
      to be consistent with your revised definition.

  (b) We are grateful for your views on the correct way to
      build and deploy OSPF networks. We have consulted
      within the IETF's OSPF working group where there is
      great experience of OSPF network design and where the
      OSPF protocol experts can be found, and within the
      MPLS and CCAMP working groups where a largest
      concentration of experience of TE network design and
      deployment can be found. This consultation led to the
      view that a multi-instance solution was preferable in
      this case.

      Note that hierarchical exchanges are not equivalent
      to multi-area exchanges.

  (c) With regard to "speedy recovery", can you clarify
      your concern on LS MAX Age and the implications for
      recovery? Are you saying that your concern is the
      continued behavior of upward dissemination of routing
      information in the event that the selected RC
      performing the dissemination fails?

  (d) Even if the case you have documented occurs, the
      important point is that LSAs do not loop. Duplicates
      may appear in OSPF, and these are acceptable since
      there are procedures in OSPF to prevent them causing
      any damage.

1.6.5 Yes, good catch, thanks.



Regarding your comments on <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-te-
call-01.txt>

2.0 It is important to recognize that <draft-ietf-ccamp-
    gmpls-rsvp-te-call-01.txt> introduces Call mechanisms
    into GMPLS as a generic tool. As noted in Section 2,
    while the mechanisms of this document meet the
    requirements in RFC 4139, they are intended to have
    wider applicability than ASON. RFC 4139 details the
    requirements for ASON.

    The application of the GMPLS Call to the ASON
    architecture in order to satisfy the requirements for
    conveying ASON Call information across a GMPLS
    interface and for managing ASON Calls at a GMPLS UNI or
    GMPLS ENNI will require a new Applicability Draft.

    Thus, section 3.2 of this document does not imply
    anything about ASON, and certainly not that ASON
    requires full and logical call/connection separation.

    We understand that ASON Calls may be implemented
    through full call/connection separation (as in
    G.7713.3) or call/connection 'piggybacking' as in
    G.7713.2. Please confirm that our interpretation of
    G.8080 and G.7713 is correct.

Best regards,
Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard
CCAMP Working Group Co-chairs
Attachment(s):
No document has been attached





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:52:15 +0000
Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart"
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-04.txt 
Message-Id: <E1HJbw2-0007On-CQ@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:50:02 -0500

--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: A Per-domain path computation method for 
                          establishing Inter-domain Traffic 
                          Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs)
	Author(s)	: J. Vasseur, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-04.txt
	Pages		: 21
	Date		: 2007-2-20
	
This document specifies a per-domain path computation technique for
   establishing inter-domain Traffic Engineering (TE) Multiprotocol
   Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Label Switched
   Paths (LSPs).  In this document a domain refers to a collection of
   network elements within a common sphere of address management or path
   computational responsibility such as IGP areas and Autonomous
   Systems.  Per-domain computation applies where the full path of an
   inter-domain TE LSP cannot be or is not determined at the ingress
   node of the TE LSP, and is not signaled across domain boundaries.
   This is most likely to arise owing to TE visibility limitations.  The
   signaling message indicates the destination and nodes up to the next
   domain boundary.  It may also indicate further domain boundaries or
   domain identifiers.  The path through each domain, possibly including
   the choice of exit point from the domain, must be determined within
   the domain.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-04.txt

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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:26:22 -0500
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Hi Adrian,

We're in sync, I have incorporated your comments and fleshed out the  
security section (re used some text from draft-ietf-ccamp-inter- 
domain-rsvp-te) + text related to the policy during ERO expansion.

Thanks for the comments.

JP.

On Feb 7, 2007, at 1:01 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Hi JP,
>
> Thanks for this. Cut down to just a few comments in line.
>
>>> Why is this Standard Track?
>>> Seems to me that there are no protocol extensions in this I-D,  
>>> and  no procedures that are dependent on interoperability.
>>>
>>> In fact, I am not comfortable with the use of 2119 language in  
>>> this  I-D since the choice seems to be available per-domain and  
>>> per-LSP.
>>>
>>
>> There are pros/cons but if you prefer, no objection to follow the  
>> Informational track, but I think that we should still keep 2119.
>
> OK. You can do that.
> You should add a note to the 2119 paragraph that says something  
> like...
>
> Although this is not a protocol specification, in order to clearly  
> state the behavior of a router that performs per-domain path  
> computation, the key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL",  
> "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and  
> "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in  
> [RFC2119].
>
>>> Case 1.
>>> I think it is important to understand that an LSR that find the   
>>> next loose hop to be absent from its TED does not know that that   
>>> hop refers to a boundary node. Indeed, it might refer to the   
>>> destination or to an AS number.
>>> So the point here is that the next hop is not in the TED, and  
>>> the  LSR must determine the domain exit boundary node to use to  
>>> route  toward the next loose hop.
>>
>> Agreed but I think that this is clearly spelled out ?
>
> The title of the case is:
>
>   1) If the next hop boundary LSR is not present in the TED.
>
> This should read:
>
>   1) If the next hop is not present in the TED.
>
>>> Section 6.2
>>>
>>> You have...
>>>
>>>   Note that stitching or nesting rely on local optimization: the
>>>   reoptimization process allows to locally reoptimize each TE S- 
>>> LSP or
>>>   H-LSP: hence, the reoptimization is not global and consequently  
>>> the
>>>   end-to-end path may no longer be optimal should it be optimal when
>>>   being set up.
>>>
>>> This text contradicts the previous paragraph!
>>>
>>> I think that what you are trying to say is something very  
>>> different  and should probably be in its own section, "End-to- 
>>> end  Reoptimization".
>>>
>>>   It is possible that a more optimal end-to-end path will arise that
>>>   cannot be achieved by local reoptimization solely within a domain.
>>>   For example, the new, more optimal path may require the use of
>>>   different domain border nodes, or even the selection of different
>>>   domains.
>>>
>>
>> Yes this is what is meant by "the reoptimization is not global".
>>
>>>   Such situations cannot usually be detected by the individual  
>>> domains
>>>   on the existing path, and so they cannot be reported to the  
>>> head-end
>>>   LSR. They certainly cannot be fixed by local optimization of H- 
>>> LSPs
>>>   or S-LSPs within any one domain.
>>>
>>>   These scenarios can only be resolved by new end-to-end  
>>> signaling  with
>>>   new path computation, and the use of make-before-break to  
>>> establish
>>>   the new LSP and switchover traffic with minimal disruption. New  
>>> end-
>>>   to-end signaling works with all three methods of inter-domain LSP
>>>   setup.
>>
>> I see your point, this might be confusing. I could either add  
>> another paragraph or preferably I suggest to remove the note  
>> (which is  probably the best option).
>
> Yes. Either add some text like what I wrote, or remove the note  
> that confuses.
>
>>> The security section here looks very light.
>>>
>>> I think you could do with explaining that this process for   
>>> establishing paths does not increase the information exchanged   
>>> between ASes and preserves topology confidentiality.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> But there are three aspects that remain open:
>>> 1. A downstream AS could "fail" to route an LSP because it does  
>>> not  like one of the downstream ASes in the ERO.
>>> 2. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP on an  
>>> unfavorable  path because it doesn't like the source or destination.
>>> 3. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP through an AS  
>>> that  is not listed in the ERO, perhaps for financial reasons.
>>
>> Right, this is in fact all covered by the Policy aspects (added  
>> some  text in section 3.1).
>
> That is kind of OK, but the Security review will probably mainly  
> read the Security section. So at least point to the text in 3.1  
> from a short paragraph explaining that there are concerns but they  
> are covered in another section.
>
>>> So, some discussion is needed. Perhaps all you need to say is that:
>>> -  pd-path assumes commercial arrangements between peered ASes
>>>  and probably between source AS and all transit ASes
>>> - pd-path is at least as good as pre-existing techniques
>>> - greater path control can be achieved by using more complex   
>>> computation
>>>   techniques
>>> - there is a fundamental trust relationship at AS borders that  
>>> must be
>>>  assumed in order to have inter-AS traffic.
>>
>> I'm not sure that we need to start such a discussion about Inter-  
>> Provider business model;
>> I'd prefer to keep our focus on the technical issue. Does that  
>> make  sense ?
>
> Having had to shepherd a few I-Ds through IESG review recently I  
> want to do everything possible to make he security sections water- 
> tight. The alternative (which is currently very attractive) is to  
> pass the buck to the I-D editors and get them to "negotiate" with  
> the IESG.
>
> I guess I am strongly advising you to put some more meat (sorry to  
> all veggies) into this section. You can choose not to, but I think  
> the I-D will get stuck in IESG review if you don't.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 00:03:25 +0000
Message-ID: <06a401c75226$966932a0$0d01a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "Scott Bradner" <sob@harvard.edu>, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, "Ross Callon" <rcallon@juniper.net>
Subject: Draft liaison to ITU-T SG15
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:54:33 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

We owe Question 14 of Study Group 15 of the ITU-T a response to their 
liaison containing review comments on 
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf-02.txt and 
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-te-call-01.txt. You can find their liaison by 
looking at www.olddog.co.uk/ccamp.htm

Deborah and I have put together the attached draft with the help of some 
others, and we'd like you to check it over.

As we have left this a bit late, we will probably send it as a liaison quite 
soon. If necessary we will be able to update the liaison later.

Thanks,
Adrian
===

To: ITU-T SG15
From: CCAMP
For Action

The CCAMP Working Group thanks Q14/15 for their detailed
response (COM 15-LS126) reviewing <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-
ason-routing-ospf-02.txt> and <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-
te-call-01.txt>.

Regarding your comments on <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-
routing-ospf-02.txt>:

1.1 <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf-02.txt>
    addresses the requirements set out in RFC 4258 that was
    based on G.7715.1 (2003) which did not address multi-
    layer networks.

    Our work on Multi-layer and Multi-region Networks
    addresses the additional requirements of multi-layer
    networks. You may find the latest copies of Internet-
    Drafts that discuss the requirements for multi-layer
    networks and analyze the existing protocols against
    those requirements on the CCAMP web site
    (www.ietf.org/html.charters/ccamp-charter.html). A
    separate draft (draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-
    extensions) has started to specify the necessary
    protocol extensions for this work.

    You are correct in your understanding of the Interface
    Switching Capabilities Descriptor (ISCD): this will
    very probably require some extensions in support of
    multi-layer networks. The information that you supplied
    may be very helpful in a detailed analysis of exactly
    what extensions are required, and we invite interested
    members of your group to participate in this work via
    the CCAMP mailing list.

    Please keep us informed as you evolve ASON to include
    multi-layer networks and any related GMPLS protocol
    requirements.

1.2 We understand the architectural possibility of an n:1
    or m:n relationship between Routing Controllers (RCs)
    and Transport Nodes, although we have yet to hear from
    anyone who wishes to implement or deploy in this ratio.
    We remind you that in this Internet-Draft Li is not a
    physical entity (transport node), but is a logical
    control plane entity that is "associated to a single
    data plane (abstract) node". As in G.7715, no
    distinction is made between data plane nodes that may
    have further internal details (i.e., abstract nodes)
    and those that cannot be decomposed any further. Thus,
    while the relationship Ri:Li can only be 1:n (for n >=
    1), the relationship Ri:Pi can be m:n (for m and n >=
    1). This provides function in keeping with the
    architecture.

    You are correct that an implementation of an Li:Pi
    ratio of n:1 (for n > 1) might choose to use virtual
    links between the Li instances. But we disagree with
    your interpretation that a GMPLS TE link cannot be
    advertised as "available for all possible constraints".
    If you have a specific scenario in mind arising from
    your implementation please discuss it with us and we
    will be happy to explain further. We agree that an
    implementation that chose to partition a Pi into
    multiple Li instances by sharing the same TE link
    between multiple Li instances would be ill-advised,
    and we note that it is unlikely to be a recommendation
    that multiple RCs advertise the same resource when they
    are advertising for the same Pi.

    We stress again that there are two focuses of this
    work. Firstly to provide simple and backward compatible
    protocol extensions to support those features of the
    architecture that vendors are implementing and that
    carriers wish to deploy. Secondly to enable all other
    features of the architecture so that, should a vendor
    choose to implement, they are not blocked. But we note
    that the objective of the IETF is to produce solutions
    that are implemented and deployed.

    The second part of this item, regards your concern on
    the limitation of one transport name per RC. As Mr.
    Farrel noted in your meeting, there is no such
    limitation. This Internet-Draft defines the capability
    for an RC to advertise more than one TE Router ID.

    You also express a concern about whether it is possible
    to assign more than one SC (Signaling Communication)
    address per RC. In the light of your observations that:

    1. "the current definition of Router Address TLV does
       not distinguish the identifier for transport plane
       names (i.e., TE Router_ID) from the SC address"; and

    2. "this I-D removes the restriction of one transport
       name per RC"

    we request additional clarification of your concern.

    If your participants are interested in further
    enhancing protocol solutions to support specific
    implementation or deployment scenarios that are an
    immediate concern for them, we invite you to
    participate in CCAMP's protocol work.

1.3 We disagree with your representation that "information
    elements necessary for operation of the protocol or for
    conformance to the ASON routing requirements are stated
    to be optional or non-normative". Consider, for
    example, in section 4.2 where the text states that:

     In the ASON context, accounting on per timeslot basis
     using 32-bit tuples of the form <signal_type (8 bits);
     number of unallocated timeslots (24 bits)> may
     optionally be incorporated in the technology specific
     field of the ISCD TE link attribute when the switching
     capability field is set to TDM value.

    This use of "optionally" is clearly necessary because
    you would not expect timeslot accounting in a WDM
    system.

    The other example you noted is in section 5.2 where the
    Local TE Router ID sub-TLV is defined as "optional and
    SHOULD only be included as part of the top level Link
    TLV if the Router_ID is advertising on behalf of more
    than one TE_Router_ID." There are two degrees to the
    use of the word "optional" in this case:

    1. You must understand that we are defining protocol
       extensions to an existing protocol that is deployed
       in many environments. If we state that the Local TE
       Router ID sub-TLV is mandatory, how would you
       suggest that a normal, legacy OSPF router should
       behave?

    2. The Local TE Router ID sub-TLV is only required if
       the advertisement carries more than one TE Router
       ID. If the protocol element is not required it is
       omitted. Thus it is optional.

    Note also that "optional" in the text does not apply in
    regard to the support of an element (the support is
    mandatory), but is in reference to the use of the
    element.

    Please let us know if there are any other examples of
    optional elements in the Internet-Draft that concern
    you, or please confirm that you are now comfortable
    with the wording.

    Lastly, you ask how we propose to support nodes that do
    not support the ASON extensions. It is certainly
    possible, and indeed likely in early deployments, that
    a subnetwork will be comprised entirely of nodes that
    either support or do not support these extensions. It
    should be noted, however, that it is of the nature of
    the opaque LSA in OSPF that nodes that do not support
    TLVs, sub-TLVs, or the entire LSA will continue to
    flood the information. Thus, within certain limitations
    it is possible to build a mixed network, and this
    choice is left to the operators during network design
    and deployment.

1.4 We are glad that you agree with our assessment that it
    is an essential element of OSPF routing protocol design
    to provide import/export rules to prevent feedback
    loops.

    RFC2966 presents a solution to this problem specific to
    the ISIS protocol, although, as you say, this mechanism
    could be adapted to other protocols.

    But other mechanisms also exist, and the ultimate
    solution that we choose must be agreed not by the ISIS
    community, but by the OSPF community. In this case, the
    choice was made after careful evaluation in cooperation
    with IETF's OSPF Working Group.

    Please let us know whether you have any technical
    issues with the approach we have chosen, and if so,
    what the issues are.

1.5 You say:
      As ITU-T Q14/15 identifies the need for new code
      points in support of evolving transport standards
      (e.g., for new reachability formats, ISCD/IACD), we
      will be counting on CCAMP WG assistance to actively
      facilitate the allocation of code points from IANA.
      (Several ITU-T sector members have already expressed
      interest in supporting TID/AID as an additional
      reachability format.) We look forward to your
      acknowledgment.

    We invite you to read and consider RFC 4775.

    As in the past, CCAMP is pleased to work with you to
    consider your protocol requirements and to advise you
    on the best way to use or extend GMPLS protocols to
    meet the requirements of your sector members. It would
    be premature to accept that new codepoint assignments
    are the appropriate solution before seeing the detailed
    requirements, and we strongly encourage you to provide
    us with any new requirements regarding the use of GMPLS
    before attempting to specify protocol extensions.

1.6

1.6.1 The use of a variety of mechanisms to provide name/
      address translation are certainly not prohibited.
      Note, however, that <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-
      routing-ospf-02.txt> is specific to the OSPF
      protocol, and that RFC 4652 is specific to an
      examination of how to provide the required function
      using routing protocols. Therefore, other mechanisms
      are out of scope of these documents and we have no
      plans to update them.

      We would welcome a separate initiative to document
      other mechanisms that vendors are implementing and
      that carriers propose to deploy.

1.6.2 The point you raise is fundamental to the use of
      addressing in GMPLS, and we recommend careful reading
      of RFC3945 and RFC4202. A thorough understanding of
      naming and addressing in GMPLS is recommended to
      everyone who seeks to implement, deploy, or extend
      the GMPLS protocols.

      The "reachable destination prefix hosted by the
      advertising Router ID" is a GMPLS TE address, not
      ever to be confused with addresses used in IPv4 and
      IPv6 layer networks. The concept of issuing a 'ping'
      in a layer one network is meaningless.

1.6.3 On Section 5.1, yes, this is in reference to control
      plane connectivity as described in the paragraph
      above the note. As described above (1.6.2),
      separation of control plane and data plane is
      fundamental to GMPLS.

      On Section 5.2, refer to discussion above and the use
      of "optional". Again, the use of the word "optional"
      is with regards to the protocol as the phrasing
      applies to any type of link advertisement, even those
      that do not need it (i.e. "should").

1.6.4
  (a) Thank you for this input. We will update the document
      to be consistent with your revised definition.

  (b) We are grateful for your views on the correct way to
      build and deploy OSPF networks. We have consulted
      within the IETF's OSPF working group where there is
      great experience of OSPF network design and where the
      OSPF protocol experts can be found, and within the
      MPLS and CCAMP working groups where a largest
      concentration of experience of TE network design and
      deployment can be found. This consultation led to the
      view that a multi-instance solution was preferable in
      this case.

      Note that hierarchical exchanges are not equivalent
      to multi-area exchanges.

  (c) With regard to "speedy recovery", can you clarify
      your concern on LS MAX Age and the implications for
      recovery? Are you saying that your concern is the
      continued behavior of upward dissemination of routing
      information in the event that the selected RC
      performing the dissemination fails?

  (d) Even if the case you have documented occurs, the
      important point is that LSAs do not loop. Duplicates
      may appear in OSPF, and these are acceptable since
      there are procedures in OSPF to prevent them causing
      any damage.

1.6.5 Yes, good catch, thanks.



Regarding your comments on <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-te-
call-01.txt>

2.0 It is important to recognize that <draft-ietf-ccamp-
    gmpls-rsvp-te-call-01.txt> introduces Call mechanisms
    into GMPLS as a generic tool. As noted in Section 2,
    while the mechanisms of this document meet the
    requirements in RFC 4139, they are intended to have
    wider applicability than ASON. RFC 4139 details the
    requirements for ASON.

    The application of the GMPLS Call to the ASON
    architecture in order to satisfy the requirements for
    conveying ASON Call information across a GMPLS
    interface and for managing ASON Calls at a GMPLS UNI or
    GMPLS ENNI will require a new Applicability Draft.

    Thus, section 3.2 of this document does not imply
    anything about ASON, and certainly not that ASON
    requires full and logical call/connection separation.

    We understand that ASON Calls may be implemented
    through full call/connection separation (as in
    G.7713.3) or call/connection 'piggybacking' as in
    G.7713.2. Please confirm that our interpretation of
    G.8080 and G.7713 is correct.









Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:15:17 +0000
Message-ID: <04b401c750f2$432319b0$0d01a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Review comments on draft-ietf-pce-disco-proto-isis-02.txt from ISIS WG
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:10:07 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mike shand" <mshand@cisco.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: <isis-wg@ietf.org>; "'Jean Philippe Vasseur'" <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] PCE working group last call on 
draft-ietf-pce-disco-proto-isis-02.txt


> Adrian, JP,
>
>
> A few comments below, mostly typos.
>
>         Mike
>
>
> General comment... sometimes the document refers to octets and sometimes 
> to bytes. It would be preferable to use a consistent term throughout.
>
>
>
> Abstract
>
>
>    along with some of information that can be used for PCE selection.
>
>
> some of THE information
>
> or
>
> some information
>
> 1. Terminology
>
> ABR is not a commonly used term in the context of IS-IS and doesn't appear 
> to be referenced in the document.
>
> domain. This definition is different from that commonly used for IS-IS. Is 
> there a reason for the difference? The document refers to IS-IS routing 
> domains. Is it intended that a domain is different from a routing domain?
>
>
> top of page 5
>
>
> This document does not define any new IS-IS elements of procedure.
>    The procedures defined in [IS-IS-CAP] should be used.
>
>
> should that be ... MUST be used?
>
> 3.2 flooding scope
>
>
>   be limited to one or more IS-IS areas the PCE belongs to, or can be
>
> one or more IS-IS areas to which the PCE belongs
>
> would be better
>
>
> 4.1. The IS-IS PCED TLV
>
> In the introduction this is referred to (correctly) as a sub-TLV, but here 
> and in subsequent text it is referred to as a TLV. This is confusing to 
> say the least.
>
>
> The format of the IS-IS PCED TLV and its sub-TLVs is the identical to
>
> is identical to
>
>
>
> 4.1.6. The CONGESTION sub-TLV
>
>
>   The CONGESTION sub-TLV is used to indicate a PCE's experiences a
>
> to indicate THAT a PCE experiences
>
> or
>
> to indicate a PCE's experience of a
>
> or
>
> to indicate that a PCE is experiencing a
>
>
>  VALUE: This comprises a one-byte bit flags indicating the
>
>
> this reads rather strangely
>
> this comprises one byte of bit flags....
>
>
>
>
> 5. Elements of Procedure
>
>
> typo
>
>
>   domain, itMUST be carried within an IS-IS CAPABILITY TLV having the S
>
>
>    When the PCE function is deactivated on a node, the node MUST
>    originate a new IS-IS LSP with no longer any PCED TLV. A PCC MUST be
>    able to detect that the PCED TLV has been removed from an IS-IS LSP.
>
>
> are we assuming here that all this information will always fit within a 
> single LSP?  That is probably reasonable
>
> Are we also assuming that it will always fit within a single IS-IS CAP 
> TLV? That may not be so reasonable.
>
> If it requires two IS-IS CAP TLVS, is there a requirement that they be 
> carried in the same LSP?
>
>
>
> 7.1. IS-IS sub-TLV
>
>    Once a registry for the IS-IS Router Capability TLV defined in
>    [IS-IS-CAP] will have been assigned, IANA will assign a new
>
>
> "has been assigned" would be better
>
>
>
> 9.5. Requirements on Other Protocols and Functional Components
>
>    The IS-IS extensions defined in this documents does not imply any
>    requirement on other protocols.
>
> do not imply (IS-IS extensions is plural)





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:03:28 +0000
Message-ID: <042701c7507b$57762af0$0d01a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Non-member submission from [Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>]   
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:46:44 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> To: sandy@tislabs.com (Sandy Murphy), hartmans-ietf@mit.edu
> From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
> Subject: Re: Security considerations with
>  draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-07
> Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, dbrungard@att.com,
>   derek@ihtfp.com, sandy@tislabs.com
> In-Reply-To: <20070214183140.513D73F47E@pecan.tislabs.com>
> References: <tsltzxzp0er.fsf@cz.mit.edu>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> At 01:31 PM 2/14/2007 -0500, Sandy Murphy wrote:
>> >I think we may need a conference call on this.  What times would work
>> >for people next week?
>>
>>I saw this a bit late at NANOG and was debating how to respond to the 
>>approach
>>Sam suggested.  And never replied, myself.  I saw no other replies, and it 
>>is
>>now the middle of "next week".  Did I miss the replies?  Is a conference 
>>call
>>still a good idea?
>>
>>--Sandy
>
> No, there haven't yet been replies.
>
> Adrian has been busy becoming a grandfather (relative to my
> experience, a case of "young kids having grand-babies"). He
> is just back from this exhausting but successful experience.
>
> I read Sam's proposal, but don't know how to respond and
> thus was waiting to give Adrian time to look at it in detail.
>
> Ross





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:03:16 +0000
Message-ID: <042501c7507b$565ccbb0$0d01a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Non-member submission from [Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>]   
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:45:43 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>
> To: sandy@tislabs.com (Sandy Murphy)
> Cc: rcallon@juniper.net,  adrian@olddog.co.uk,  ccamp@ops.ietf.org, 
> dbrungard@att.com,  derek@ihtfp.com
> Subject: Re: Security considerations with 
> draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-07
> References: <20070214183140.513D73F47E@pecan.tislabs.com>
> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:29:00 -0500
> In-Reply-To: <20070214183140.513D73F47E@pecan.tislabs.com> (Sandy Murphy's
> message of "Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:31:40 -0500 (EST)")
> Message-ID: <tslps8ca683.fsf@cz.mit.edu>
> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux)
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I have also seen no replies.





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:40:36 +0000
To: hartmans-ietf@mit.edu, rcallon@juniper.net
Subject: Re: Security considerations with   draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-07
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, dbrungard@att.com, derek@ihtfp.com, sandy@tislabs.com
Message-Id: <20070214183140.513D73F47E@pecan.tislabs.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:31:40 -0500 (EST)
From: sandy@tislabs.com (Sandy Murphy)

>I think we may need a conference call on this.  What times would work
>for people next week?

I saw this a bit late at NANOG and was debating how to respond to the approach
Sam suggested.  And never replied, myself.  I saw no other replies, and it is
now the middle of "next week".  Did I miss the replies?  Is a conference call
still a good idea?

--Sandy



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:24:43 +0000
Sensitivity: 
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt
To: "Dimitri.Papadimitriou" <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be>
Cc: "<ccamp" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Message-ID: <OFE726509C.DD30F8E1-ONC1257280.003333B3-C1257280.00335EED@uk.marconicomms.com>
From: "Diego Caviglia" <Diego.Caviglia@marconi.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:20:35 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi Dimitri,
            thanks for your quick review!

We'll address your comments in next revision.

Regards

Diego



Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be@ops.ietf.org on 10/02/2007 11.22.31

Sent by:    owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org


To:    <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
cc:

Subject:    Re: I-D ACTION:draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt

a couple of comments on this doc:

- why is applicability restricted to SPC ? any reason ? (GMPLS base
mechanisms are not interface specific)

- is the mechanism applicable to any LSP type - unclear from section 4.1

note: two first point may be treated in the initial doc (about motivation,
pb statement, etc.)

- not sure to capture clearing procedure of the H flag (is R bit set ?)
not sure to understand the following process "Handover flag is cleared in
Path/Resv state block of the involved LSP, only by reception of
ResvConfirm message (or Resv message, if ResvConfirm is not supported)."

- the PSR flag is ok in the Path msg/Error_Spec but you will have to
detail the information in error as part of this object

- processing in case of failure during Resv exchanges not detailed (i
understand the latter is used to commit the downstream check)

- how to tackle false positive, the management plane info is correct but
mis-matching with actual data plane resources two cases can occur an error
which then ok but if these resources are used by another LSP the control
plane is permanently pinning an error

- in any case, you may have to run a test (T bit) to verify control plane
against data plane after hand-over completes

thx,
- d.





Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
09/02/2007 00:50
Please respond to internet-drafts

        To:     i-d-announce@ietf.org
        cc:
        Subject:        I-D
ACTION:draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.


                 Title                           : GRSVP-TE Signaling
Extension For The
                          Conversion Between Permanent Connections And
                          Soft Permanent Connections In A GMPLS enabled
Transport Network
                 Author(s)               : D. Caviglia, et al.
                 Filename                :
draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt
                 Pages                           : 13
                 Date                            : 2007-2-8

   In a transport network scenario, where Data Plane connections
   controlled either by GMPLS (Soft Permanent Connections - SPC) or by
   Management System (Permanent Connections - PC) may independently
   coexist, the ability of transforming an existing PC into a SPC and
   vice versa - without actually affecting Data Plane traffic being
   carried over it - is a valuable option. This applies especially when
   a GMPLS based Control Plane is first introduced into an existing
   network and there may be the need, from a Carrier point of view, to
   pass under GMPLS control existing connections already set up over
   Data Plane. In other terms, such operation could be seen as a way of
   transferring the ownership and control of an existing and in-use Data
   Plane connection between the Management Plane and the Control Plane,
   leaving its Data Plane state untouched.
   This memo provides a minor extension to GRSVP-TE signaling protocol,
   within GMPLS architecture, to enable such transfer of ownership and
   describes the proposed procedures.


A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt



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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:25:16 +0000
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <OFCF041C90.9E4B57B5-ONC125727E.00353227-C125727E.0038FE54@netfr.alcatel.fr>
From: Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:22:31 +0100
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

a couple of comments on this doc:

- why is applicability restricted to SPC ? any reason ? (GMPLS base 
mechanisms are not interface specific) 

- is the mechanism applicable to any LSP type - unclear from section 4.1

note: two first point may be treated in the initial doc (about motivation, 
pb statement, etc.)

- not sure to capture clearing procedure of the H flag (is R bit set ?) 
not sure to understand the following process "Handover flag is cleared in 
Path/Resv state block of the involved LSP, only by reception of 
ResvConfirm message (or Resv message, if ResvConfirm is not supported)."

- the PSR flag is ok in the Path msg/Error_Spec but you will have to 
detail the information in error as part of this object

- processing in case of failure during Resv exchanges not detailed (i 
understand the latter is used to commit the downstream check) 

- how to tackle false positive, the management plane info is correct but 
mis-matching with actual data plane resources two cases can occur an error 
which then ok but if these resources are used by another LSP the control 
plane is permanently pinning an error

- in any case, you may have to run a test (T bit) to verify control plane 
against data plane after hand-over completes

thx,
- d.





Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
09/02/2007 00:50
Please respond to internet-drafts
 
        To:     i-d-announce@ietf.org
        cc: 
        Subject:        I-D 
ACTION:draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.


                 Title                           : GRSVP-TE Signaling 
Extension For The 
                          Conversion Between Permanent Connections And
                          Soft Permanent Connections In A GMPLS enabled 
Transport Network
                 Author(s)               : D. Caviglia, et al.
                 Filename                : 
draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt
                 Pages                           : 13
                 Date                            : 2007-2-8
 
   In a transport network scenario, where Data Plane connections 
   controlled either by GMPLS (Soft Permanent Connections - SPC) or by 
   Management System (Permanent Connections - PC) may independently 
   coexist, the ability of transforming an existing PC into a SPC and 
   vice versa - without actually affecting Data Plane traffic being 
   carried over it - is a valuable option. This applies especially when 
   a GMPLS based Control Plane is first introduced into an existing 
   network and there may be the need, from a Carrier point of view, to 
   pass under GMPLS control existing connections already set up over 
   Data Plane. In other terms, such operation could be seen as a way of 
   transferring the ownership and control of an existing and in-use Data 
   Plane connection between the Management Plane and the Control Plane, 
   leaving its Data Plane state untouched. 
   This memo provides a minor extension to GRSVP-TE signaling protocol, 
   within GMPLS architecture, to enable such transfer of ownership and 
   describes the proposed procedures. 


A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-caviglia-ccamp-pc-spc-grsvpte-ext-00.txt


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From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-02.txt 
Message-Id: <E1HEtju-0001bP-SC@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 15:50:02 -0500

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
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This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration
	Author(s)	: K. Shiomoto
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-02.txt
	Pages		: 20
	Date		: 2007-2-7
	
The migration from Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic 
        Engineering (TE) to Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) is the process of 
        evolving an MPLS-TE control plane to a GMPLS control plane. An 
        appropriate migration strategy will be selected based on various 
        factors including the service provider's network deployment plan, 
        customer demand, and operational policy. 

        This document presents several migration models and strategies for 
        migrating from MPLS-TE to GMPLS. In the course of migration, MPLS-TE 
        and GMPLS devices, or networks, may coexist which may require 
        interworking between MPLS-TE and GMPLS protocols. Aspects of the 
        interworking required are discussed as it will influence the choice 
        of a migration strategy. This framework document provides a migration 
        toolkit to aid the operator in selection of an appropriate strategy.         This framework document also lists a set of solutions that may aid in 
        interworking, and highlights a set of potential issues.

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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 18:03:05 +0000
Message-ID: <12a001c74ae1$f5500e70$76849ed9@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>, <raymond_zhang@bt.infonet.com>
Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:01:01 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi JP,

Thanks for this. Cut down to just a few comments in line.

>> Why is this Standard Track?
>> Seems to me that there are no protocol extensions in this I-D, and  no 
>> procedures that are dependent on interoperability.
>>
>> In fact, I am not comfortable with the use of 2119 language in this  I-D 
>> since the choice seems to be available per-domain and per-LSP.
>>
>
> There are pros/cons but if you prefer, no objection to follow the 
> Informational track, but I think that we should still keep 2119.

OK. You can do that.
You should add a note to the 2119 paragraph that says something like...

Although this is not a protocol specification, in order to clearly state the 
behavior of a router that performs per-domain path computation, the key 
words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", 
"SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to 
be interpreted as described in [RFC2119].

>> Case 1.
>> I think it is important to understand that an LSR that find the  next 
>> loose hop to be absent from its TED does not know that that  hop refers 
>> to a boundary node. Indeed, it might refer to the  destination or to an 
>> AS number.
>> So the point here is that the next hop is not in the TED, and the  LSR 
>> must determine the domain exit boundary node to use to route  toward the 
>> next loose hop.
>
> Agreed but I think that this is clearly spelled out ?

The title of the case is:

   1) If the next hop boundary LSR is not present in the TED.

This should read:

   1) If the next hop is not present in the TED.

>> Section 6.2
>>
>> You have...
>>
>>   Note that stitching or nesting rely on local optimization: the
>>   reoptimization process allows to locally reoptimize each TE S-LSP or
>>   H-LSP: hence, the reoptimization is not global and consequently the
>>   end-to-end path may no longer be optimal should it be optimal when
>>   being set up.
>>
>> This text contradicts the previous paragraph!
>>
>> I think that what you are trying to say is something very different  and 
>> should probably be in its own section, "End-to-end  Reoptimization".
>>
>>   It is possible that a more optimal end-to-end path will arise that
>>   cannot be achieved by local reoptimization solely within a domain.
>>   For example, the new, more optimal path may require the use of
>>   different domain border nodes, or even the selection of different
>>   domains.
>>
>
> Yes this is what is meant by "the reoptimization is not global".
>
>>   Such situations cannot usually be detected by the individual domains
>>   on the existing path, and so they cannot be reported to the head-end
>>   LSR. They certainly cannot be fixed by local optimization of H-LSPs
>>   or S-LSPs within any one domain.
>>
>>   These scenarios can only be resolved by new end-to-end signaling  with
>>   new path computation, and the use of make-before-break to establish
>>   the new LSP and switchover traffic with minimal disruption. New end-
>>   to-end signaling works with all three methods of inter-domain LSP
>>   setup.
>
> I see your point, this might be confusing. I could either add another 
> paragraph or preferably I suggest to remove the note (which is  probably 
> the best option).

Yes. Either add some text like what I wrote, or remove the note that 
confuses.

>> The security section here looks very light.
>>
>> I think you could do with explaining that this process for  establishing 
>> paths does not increase the information exchanged  between ASes and 
>> preserves topology confidentiality.
>
> Yes.
>
>> But there are three aspects that remain open:
>> 1. A downstream AS could "fail" to route an LSP because it does not  like 
>> one of the downstream ASes in the ERO.
>> 2. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP on an unfavorable  path 
>> because it doesn't like the source or destination.
>> 3. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP through an AS that  is 
>> not listed in the ERO, perhaps for financial reasons.
>
> Right, this is in fact all covered by the Policy aspects (added some  text 
> in section 3.1).

That is kind of OK, but the Security review will probably mainly read the 
Security section. So at least point to the text in 3.1 from a short 
paragraph explaining that there are concerns but they are covered in another 
section.

>> So, some discussion is needed. Perhaps all you need to say is that:
>> -  pd-path assumes commercial arrangements between peered ASes
>>  and probably between source AS and all transit ASes
>> - pd-path is at least as good as pre-existing techniques
>> - greater path control can be achieved by using more complex  computation
>>   techniques
>> - there is a fundamental trust relationship at AS borders that must be
>>  assumed in order to have inter-AS traffic.
>
> I'm not sure that we need to start such a discussion about Inter- Provider 
> business model;
> I'd prefer to keep our focus on the technical issue. Does that make  sense 
> ?

Having had to shepherd a few I-Ds through IESG review recently I want to do 
everything possible to make he security sections water-tight. The 
alternative (which is currently very attractive) is to pass the buck to the 
I-D editors and get them to "negotiate" with the IESG.

I guess I am strongly advising you to put some more meat (sorry to all 
veggies) into this section. You can choose not to, but I think the I-D will 
get stuck in IESG review if you don't.

Thanks,
Adrian 





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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Fwd: Progressing the three inter-domain I-Ds
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:57:13 -0500
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Hi Dimitri,

Just double checking that there's no pending issues - see in line

Begin forwarded message:

> From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
> Date: January 16, 2007 9:42:57 AM EST
> To: Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be
> Cc: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, =20
> owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: Progressing the three inter-domain I-Ds
>
> Hi Dimitri,
>
> On Jan 13, 2007, at 6:49 AM, Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-=20
> lucent.be wrote:
>
>> hi adrian
>>
>> o) a couple of generic comments on the third doc
>>
>> - the doc. states applicability to GMPLS but sometimes only ref. =20
>> MPLS-TE
>> signaling further on e.g. section 3.1
>>
>> " - The inter-domain TE LSPs are signaled using RSVP-TE ([RFC3209])."
>>
>> and many others in section 4.
>>
>
> ok.

Reference to RFC3473 added.

>
>> - the are many comparison with PCE technique along the doc. - well =20=

>> that's
>> fine but outside the scope of the document except if the purpose =20
>> is to
>> indicate how different techniques can be combined together and which
>> interop issues may result from it
>>
>
> Because there are indeed two path computation techniques, it is =20
> useful to keep these references in order to provide a fair =20
> comparison. We could of course come up with a separate =20
> applicability ID, but there are already quite a few related IDs, =20
> thus it is preferable to keep the text here. I'll double check if =20
> there's any redundancy though.
>
>> o) a couple of specific comments
>>
>> end of section 2:
>>
>> section 3.1: "* The complete list of boundary LSRs along the path"
>> -> list of domain identifier e.g. AS numbers also applies here ?
>>
>> last =A7 of section 3.1 is the most important one, signaling =20
>> protocol are
>> independent of the routing topology itself, i.e. not because a =20
>> node is
>> an ABR or an ASBR that comp. occurs but simply because he has no path
>> to reach the next (loose) hop - an intermediate node should still =20
>> maintain
>> capacity to perform such operation
>>
>> section 3.3 "The path computation
>>    technique described in this document applies to the case of a =20
>> single
>>    AS made of multiple IGP areas, multiples ASs made of a single IGP
>>    areas or any combination of the above.  For the sake of =20
>> simplicity,
>>    each routing domain will be considered as single area in this
>>    document. "
>>
>> -> not sure to understand the reasoning, at the end these examples =20=

>> must
>> remain illustrative and not restrict applicability - all these =20
>> tutorial
>> like material should better go in an appendix -
>
>


> We prefer to keep it there


>
>
>>
>> section 3.1 "In any case,
>>    no topology or resource information needs to be distributed =20
>> between
>>    domains (as mandated per [RFC4105] and [RFC4216]), which is =20
>> critical
>>    to preserve IGP/BGP scalability and confidentiality in the case =20=

>> of TE
>>    LSPs spanning multiple routing domains."
>>
>> then Section 4
>> "In terms of computation of an inter-AS TE LSP path, an interesting
>>    optimization technique consists of allowing the ASBRs to flood =20
>> the TE
>>    information related to the inter-ASBR link(s) although no IGP =20
>> TE is
>>    enabled over those links (and so there is no IGP adjacency over =20=

>> the
>>    inter-ASBR links).  ...
>> "Thanks to such an optimization, the inter-ASBRs TE link information
>>    corresponding to the links originated by the ASBR is made =20
>> available
>>    in the TED of other LSRs in the same domain that the ASBR =20
>> belongs to."
>>
>> but after
>> "Note that no topology
>>    information is flooded and these links are not used in IGP SPF
>>    computations.  Only the TE information for the outgoing links
>>    directly connected to the ASBR is advertised."
>>
>> -> can one of the author clarify 1) is flooding involved or not ?
>
> I'll be happy to clarify. The idea is to flood the TE info for the =20
> Inter-AS link(s). Note that this does not contradict the =20
> requirements of RFC4216:
> (1) Confidentiality relates to the topology of another domain: the =20
> TE information flooded in a domain is only augmented by Inter-AS =20
> links, not to any link in another domain.
> (2) Scalability: of course, flooding the TE info of a few Inter-AS =20
> links will not compromise the scalability of the IGP.

Do we agree ?

>
>> 2) what get's flooded and under which conditions 3) what is the
>> scope of the flooding 4) how this mechanism positions against the
>> requirements of 4105 and 4216
>>
>
> Did I clarify ? If so, I'll add a paragraph in the ID.
>
>>
>> o) a couple of edits
>>
>> section 1:
>>
>> ABR Router, ASBR Router - redundant R
>>
>> the most important def. is the "domain" def. which can be found in =20=

>> the
>> frm doc but not recorded here this would clarify sentence like
>>
>> "The mechanisms proposed in this document are also applicable to MPLS
>>  TE domains other than IGP areas and ASs."
>>
>> ref. H-LSP and S-LSP with the appropriate docs
>>
>> state that inter-domain recovery is going to be addressed in a set of
>> specific docs
>
> Thanks for the edits.

Thanks.

JP.

>
> JP.
>
>>
>> hope this will help,
>> - d.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
>> Sent by: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
>> 09/01/2007 23:13
>> Please respond to "Adrian Farrel"
>>
>>         To:     <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
>>         cc:
>>         Subject:        Progressing the three inter-domain I-Ds
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We now have updated versions of the three inter-domain signaling I-=20=

>> Ds:
>>
>> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt
>> - draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching-04.txt
>> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt
>>
>> Our plan is:
>> 1. WG chairs do detailed review over the next couple of weeks
>> 2. Editors apply necessary updates
>> 3. We hold a WG last call for the three I-Ds together
>>
>> If you are interested in this work, I suggest that now might be a =20
>> good
>> time
>> to remind yourself about the I-Ds, have a good read, and see if =20
>> you can
>> get
>> any substantial comments in to coincide with the WG chairs' review.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi Dimitri,<DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Just double checking that =
there's no pending issues - see in line<BR><DIV><BR><DIV>Begin forwarded =
message:</DIV><BR class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><B>From: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica">JP Vasseur &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com">jvasseur@cisco.com</A>&gt;</FONT></DIV>=
<DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Date: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica">January 16, 2007 9:42:57 AM EST</FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>To: </B></FONT><FONT =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica"><A =
href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be">Dimitri.Papadimitr=
iou@alcatel-lucent.be</A></FONT></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Cc: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica">"Adrian Farrel" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</A>&gt;, <A =
href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>, <A =
href=3D"mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org">owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A></FON=
T></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" =
color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><B>Subject: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica"><B>Re: Progressing the three =
inter-domain I-Ds</B></FONT></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> <DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi Dimitri,</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On Jan =
13, 2007, at 6:49 AM, <A =
href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be">Dimitri.Papadimitr=
iou@alcatel-lucent.be</A> wrote:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">hi =
adrian</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">o) a couple of generic comments on the third =
doc</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">- the doc. states applicability to GMPLS but =
sometimes only ref. MPLS-TE</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">signaling =
further on e.g. section 3.1</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">" - The inter-domain TE LSPs are =
signaled using RSVP-TE ([RFC3209])."</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and many others in section =
4.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">ok.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Reference to RFC3473 =
added.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- the =
are many comparison with PCE technique along the doc. - well =
that's</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">fine but outside the scope of =
the document except if the purpose is to</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">indicate =
how different techniques can be combined together and which</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">interop issues may result from it</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Because =
there are indeed two path computation techniques, it is useful to keep =
these references in order to provide a fair comparison. We could of =
course come up with a separate applicability ID, but there are already =
quite a few related IDs, thus it is preferable to keep the text here. =
I'll double check if there's any redundancy though.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">o) a couple of specific =
comments</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">end of section 2:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">section 3.1: =
"* The complete list of boundary LSRs along the path"</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">-&gt; list of domain identifier e.g. AS numbers also =
applies here ?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">last =A7 of section 3.1 is the most important one, =
signaling protocol are</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">independent of the routing =
topology itself, i.e. not because a node is</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">an ABR =
or an ASBR that comp. occurs but simply because he has no path</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">to reach the next (loose) hop - an intermediate node =
should still maintain</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">capacity to perform such =
operation</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">section 3.3 "The path computation</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>technique described in this document applies to the case of a =
single</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>AS made of multiple IGP =
areas, multiples ASs made of a single IGP</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>areas or any combination =
of the above.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>For the =
sake of simplicity,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>each routing domain will =
be considered as single area in this</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>document. "</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-&gt; =
not sure to understand the reasoning, at the end these examples =
must</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">remain illustrative and not =
restrict applicability - all these tutorial</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">like =
material should better go in an appendix -</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">We =
prefer to keep it there</BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV=
 style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">section 3.1 "In any case,</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>no topology or resource information needs to be distributed =
between</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>domains (as mandated per =
[RFC4105] and [RFC4216]), which is critical</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>to preserve IGP/BGP =
scalability and confidentiality in the case of TE</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>LSPs spanning multiple routing domains."</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">then =
Section 4</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"In terms of computation of an =
inter-AS TE LSP path, an interesting</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>optimization technique =
consists of allowing the ASBRs to flood the TE</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>information related to the inter-ASBR link(s) although no IGP TE =
is</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>enabled over those links (and so there is no IGP adjacency over =
the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>inter-ASBR links).<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>...</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">"Thanks to such an optimization, the inter-ASBRs TE =
link information</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>corresponding to the links =
originated by the ASBR is made available</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>in the TED of other LSRs =
in the same domain that the ASBR belongs to."</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">but =
after</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"Note that no topology</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>information is flooded and these links are not used in IGP =
SPF</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>computations.<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>Only the TE information for =
the outgoing links</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>directly connected to the =
ASBR is advertised."</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-&gt; can one of the author =
clarify 1) is flooding involved or not ?</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I'll be =
happy to clarify. The idea is to flood the TE info for the Inter-AS =
link(s). Note that this does not contradict the requirements of =
RFC4216:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(1) Confidentiality relates to =
the topology of another domain: the TE information flooded in a domain =
is only augmented by Inter-AS links, not to any link in another =
domain.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(2) Scalability: of course, =
flooding the TE info of a few Inter-AS links will not compromise the =
scalability of the IGP.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Do we agree =
?</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2) what =
get's flooded and under which conditions 3) what is the</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">scope of the flooding 4) how this mechanism =
positions against the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">requirements of 4105 and =
4216</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
</BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Did I clarify ? If so, I'll add a paragraph in the =
ID.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">o) a couple of edits</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">section =
1:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">ABR Router, ASBR Router - redundant R</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the most =
important def. is the "domain" def. which can be found in the</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">frm doc but not recorded here this would clarify =
sentence like</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">"The mechanisms proposed in this document are also =
applicable to MPLS</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN>TE domains other than IGP =
areas and ASs."</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">ref. H-LSP and S-LSP with the appropriate =
docs</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">state that inter-domain recovery is going to be =
addressed in a set of</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">specific docs</DIV> =
</BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks for the edits.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Thanks.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>JP.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">JP.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">hope this =
will help,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- d.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">"Adrian Farrel" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Sent by: <A =
href=3D"mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org">owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A></DIV=
><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">09/01/2007 23:13</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Please =
respond to "Adrian Farrel"</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>To: <SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN>&lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">ccamp@ops.ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
</SPAN>cc:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>Subject:<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>Progressing the =
three inter-domain I-Ds</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Hi,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">We now have updated versions of =
the three inter-domain signaling I-Ds:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- =
draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-04.txt</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">- draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching-04.txt</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">- =
draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Our plan =
is:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1. WG chairs do detailed review =
over the next couple of weeks</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2. Editors =
apply necessary updates</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3. We hold a =
WG last call for the three I-Ds together</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">If you are =
interested in this work, I suggest that now might be a good</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">time</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to remind =
yourself about the I-Ds, have a good read, and see if you can</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">get</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">any =
substantial comments in to coincide with the WG chairs' =
review.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Adrian</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>=

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Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt
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Hi Adrian,

On Feb 4, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As promised, I have done a review of this I-D to help the authors  
> prepare it
> for WG last call. In my opinion, the draft is in pretty good shape,  
> but
> there are a few minor issues.
>
> If the authors can submit a new version to address these comments  
> and those raised on the list resently, we can
> take the I-D forward.

Thanks for the detailed review - See in line,

>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> ===
>
> Intended status
>
> Why is this Standard Track?
> Seems to me that there are no protocol extensions in this I-D, and  
> no procedures that are dependent on interoperability.
>
> In fact, I am not comfortable with the use of 2119 language in this  
> I-D since the choice seems to be available per-domain and per-LSP.
>

There are pros/cons but if you prefer, no objection to follow the  
Informational track, but I think that we should still keep 2119.

> ===
>
> Section 4
>
> In this section the text sometimes is exclusive to "area", although  
> sometimes you do describe "area or AS".
>
> You do not want to give the impression that the cases where you  
> only mention "area" do not apply to "ASes", but you also probably  
> don't want the text to be clumsy with having to reference both  
> cases every time. Consider using "domain" to include both cases.
>

OK

> ===
>
> Section 4 paragraph 3
>
> You have...
>
>   When an LSR (e.g. a boundary node such as an ABR/ASBR) receives a
>   Path message with an ERO that contains a loose hop or an abstract
>   node that is not a simple abstract node (that is, an abstract node
>   that identifies more than one LSR), then it MUST follow the
>   procedures as described in [I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp- 
> te].  In
>   addition, the following procedures describe the path computation
>   procedures that SHOULD be carried out on the LSR:
>
> But this is not true!
> I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te specifically describes  
> procedures at domain border nodes.
> You can fix your text by changing the first line to read...
>
>   When an LSR that is a boundary node (e.g. an ABR or ASBR) receives a

Done.

>
> ===
>
> Section 4 procedures
>
> This text would benefit from some careful indentation to make it  
> easier to see how the cases are nested.
>

Added.

> Case 1.
> I think it is important to understand that an LSR that find the  
> next loose hop to be absent from its TED does not know that that  
> hop refers to a boundary node. Indeed, it might refer to the  
> destination or to an AS number.
> So the point here is that the next hop is not in the TED, and the  
> LSR must determine the domain exit boundary node to use to route  
> toward the next loose hop.

Agreed but I think that this is clearly spelled out ?

>
> ===
>
> Section 4  Case 2) b) i)
> This case should point out that, in addition to local policy, the  
> signaling information described in I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp- 
> te can control whether an LSP is a candidate for hierarchy or  
> stitching.
>

Excellent point, indeed. Thanks. Text added to both i) and ii).

> ===
>
> Section 4
>
> You have...
>
>   The links interconnecting ASBRs are usually not TE-enabled and no  
> IGP
>   is running at the AS boundaries.  An implementation supporting
>   inter-AS MPLS TE MUST allow the set up of inter-AS TE LSP over the
>   region interconnecting multiple ASBRs.  In other words, an ASBR
>   compliant with this document MUST support the set up of TE LSP over
>   inter-ASBR links and MUST be able to perform all the usual  
> operations
>   related to MPLS Traffic Engineering (call admission control, ...).
>
> This use of "MUST" is in contradiction with previous text that says  
> LSRs MAY reject LSPs if they don't want to use the "auto-discovery"  
> mechanisms. It also seems to be a violation of an administration's  
> policy options.

mmm ... this is orthogonal to the auto-discovery mechanisms. That  
said, the text states the obvious, text removed.

>
> ===
>
> Section 6
>
>   The ability to reoptimize an already established inter-domain TE LSP
>   constitutes a requirement.
>
> Can you give a reference for the requirement?

Yes in RFC4216 and RFC4105 (references added).

>
> ===
>
> Section 6.2
>
> You have...
>
>   Note that stitching or nesting rely on local optimization: the
>   reoptimization process allows to locally reoptimize each TE S-LSP or
>   H-LSP: hence, the reoptimization is not global and consequently the
>   end-to-end path may no longer be optimal should it be optimal when
>   being set up.
>
> This text contradicts the previous paragraph!
>
> I think that what you are trying to say is something very different  
> and should probably be in its own section, "End-to-end  
> Reoptimization".
>
>   It is possible that a more optimal end-to-end path will arise that
>   cannot be achieved by local reoptimization solely within a domain.
>   For example, the new, more optimal path may require the use of
>   different domain border nodes, or even the selection of different
>   domains.
>

Yes this is what is meant by "the reoptimization is not global".

>   Such situations cannot usually be detected by the individual domains
>   on the existing path, and so they cannot be reported to the head-end
>   LSR. They certainly cannot be fixed by local optimization of H-LSPs
>   or S-LSPs within any one domain.
>
>   These scenarios can only be resolved by new end-to-end signaling  
> with
>   new path computation, and the use of make-before-break to establish
>   the new LSP and switchover traffic with minimal disruption. New end-
>   to-end signaling works with all three methods of inter-domain LSP
>   setup.

I see your point, this might be confusing. I could either add another  
paragraph or preferably I suggest to remove the note (which is  
probably the best option).

>
> ===
>
> The security section here looks very light.
>
> I think you could do with explaining that this process for  
> establishing paths does not increase the information exchanged  
> between ASes and preserves topology confidentiality.

Yes.

>
> But there are three aspects that remain open:
> 1. A downstream AS could "fail" to route an LSP because it does not  
> like one of the downstream ASes in the ERO.
> 2. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP on an unfavorable  
> path because it doesn't like the source or destination.
> 3. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP through an AS that  
> is not listed in the ERO, perhaps for financial reasons.

Right, this is in fact all covered by the Policy aspects (added some  
text in section 3.1).

>
> So, some discussion is needed. Perhaps all you need to say is that:
> -  pd-path assumes commercial arrangements between peered ASes
>  and probably between source AS and all transit ASes
> - pd-path is at least as good as pre-existing techniques
> - greater path control can be achieved by using more complex  
> computation
>   techniques
> - there is a fundamental trust relationship at AS borders that must be
>  assumed in order to have inter-AS traffic.

I'm not sure that we need to start such a discussion about Inter- 
Provider business model;
I'd prefer to keep our focus on the technical issue. Does that make  
sense ?

>
> You can also forward-reference Luyuan's MPLS-TE security work.
>
> ===
>
> References
>
> Update I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-framework to RFC 4726
>

Done, thanks.

> The IESG are now quite exercised by down-refs in I-Ds. As a result,  
> I suggest that you move RFC2702 to the Informative References section.
>

Indeed, thanks.

> Remove the reference to I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp  
> from the Informative References section.
>

Nice loop ;-)

> I-D.ietf-pce-architecture is now RFC 4655
>

Let me know if we're in sync and I'll publish the new updated revision.

Thanks.

Cheers.

JP.

> ===



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 12:43:21 +0000
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Cc: "Zhang Renhai" <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Greg Mirsky" <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, pce@ietf.org
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 07:41:17 -0500
To: Peng He <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
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** with no PCE co-chair hat **

On Feb 6, 2007, at 9:35 PM, Peng He wrote:

> I agreed with the following:
>
> "... we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't
>>> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.
>>> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the
>>> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
>>
>> Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope
>> since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area  
>> scope ?"
>
> I guess following the thinking line of this draft, we might need
> another extension so as to advertising "inter-area" TE links into
> non-backbone areas, or, just treat one area as a "domain"?

!!! I firmly disagree ... this would mean doing TE aggregation for  
inter-area MPLS TE.
Please refer to my previous email wrt to this type of solution, that  
has been discussed
in length and rejected (please refer to RFC4105 + MLs archives).  
There is a fundamental
difference between flooding the Inter-AS TE links and what you call  
the inter-area TE links
(TE aggregation).

>
> And in Renhai's "[ZRH]I try to give an answer.", last line, how to
> perform this inter-area computation? per-area?

Looks like we're in a loop here ... pd-domain path computation and  
PCE-based have
been designed for that.

Thanks.

JP.

> or Backward Recursive
> Path Computation in a multi-area AS?
>
> Regards,
> Peng
>
> On 2/6/07, Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com> wrote:
>> Hi, JP
>>
>> See in-line please.
>>
>> > Hi Adrian,
>> >
>> > On Feb 5, 2007, at 7:11 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Greg,
>> >>
>> >>> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
>> >>> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
>> >>> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
>> >>> ASBR.
>> >>
>> >> So the question has to be:
>> >> Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?
>> >>
>> >> What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?
>> >>
>> >> If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE
>> >> that is a BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs
>> >> today are capable of path computation and could handle this case
>> >> (for example, for the pd-path scenario) without needing to consult
>> >> an external PCE.
>> >>
>> >>> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
>> >>> information throughout both AS and an area
>> >>
>> >> I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are
>> >> talking about, and how this compares with the number of TE links
>> >> within an area.
>> >>
>> >
>> > It is probably negligible ... Note that by contrast with the  
>> approach
>> > proposing to flooding Inter-ASBR TE LSP, we're only looking at
>> > flooding the TE information of the inter-ASBR *links*.
>> >
>> >>> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
>> >>> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
>> >>> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
>> >>> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. I think
>> >>> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
>> >>> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
>> >>> LSR/LER.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, that would be the case.
>> >
>> >> I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I  
>> don't
>> >> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case  
>> (i.e.
>> >> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat  
>> the
>> >> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
>> >
>> > Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope
>> > since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area  
>> scope ?
>> [ZRH]I try to give an answer.
>> With a new sub-tlv(remote AS number)and a new link type
>> (inter-AS link type) are specified, in a multi-areas AS, the entry  
>> ASBR
>> when receving a path mesg can get the exit ASBR(in another area) with
>> this AS-scope advertisement and the path mesg(downstream AS number
>> is given in ERO). then, the inter-area computation can be performed.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Zhang Renhai
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
>> >>> following:
>> >>> "   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing  
>> advertisements of
>> >>>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths  
>> that
>> >>>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter  
>> the AS.
>> >>>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST
>> >>> only
>> >>>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at  
>> the
>> >>>   router or PCE computing the path."
>> >>> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong
>> >>> to two
>> >>> different neighboring ASes?
>> >>
>> >> Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes  
>> are
>> >> linked by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal
>> >> circumstances leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1
>> >> from AS2 through TE link 2.
>> >>
>> >> The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with
>> >> two links, the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be
>> >> detected as a loop in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit  
>> anyway.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > JP.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Adrian
>> >
>> >
>>
>>



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 07:42:24 +0000
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 15:35:18 +0800
From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Subject: Comments on draft-li-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-00
To: ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "Deborah A. Brungard" <dbrungard@att.com>, "Farrel, Adrian" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>
Message-id: <021f01c74a8a$83f34910$d04c460a@china.huawei.com>
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Hi,

We have received many comments on this draft, some optional solutions also proposed for detecting the data channel mismatch status, here we try to summarize these options and what's our understanding:

1. Use BeginVerify and BeginVerifyAck Messages

The data channel mismatch situation also can be detected by using the BeginVerify and BeginVerfyAck Messages. 
Whenever the "available" side wants to determine whether any data channel mismatches exist it starts an LMP verification process. [RFC4204] states:
Therefore, to ensure proper verification of data link
connectivity, it is required that, until the data links are
allocated for user traffic, they must be opaque (i.e., lose
their transparency). To support various degrees of opaqueness
(e.g., examining overhead bytes, terminating the IP payload,
etc.) and, hence, different mechanisms to transport the Test
messages, a Verify Transport Mechanism field is included in
the BeginVerify and BeginVerifyAck messages."

This means that when data links are de-allocated they should re-enter that opaque state.
The issue is that the BeginVerify does not exchange DATA LINK but LINK objects (there is no flags in the former) hence the only reply you would receive is "unwilling to verify" while ideally you should receive "unwilling to verify (allocated)" such as the other side can map it with local knowledge and detect the mismatch.

[dan] Right, so it would be necessary to extend the BeginVerify to include a list of DATA LINKs (as we have done in our new messages) presumably as sub-information of the LINK so that all data links associated with the link are confirmed at the same time.
The really big issue I have with this is that Verify is a destructive process. That is, you can use your confirm process described in the previous section while data is passing, but the Verify process requires that the data links are opaque. I think that this means that it is not an acceptable option.

2. Use Fault Management Messages

Per [RFC4204], LMP supports the possibility to signal the status of a data channel using the Fault Management procedures. The ChannelStatusRequest message is ued by one end of a data channel to request that the other end sends back a report on its view of the status of the data channel in a ChannelStatus message. The ChannelStatus message includes a CHANNEL_STATUS object to list each reported data channel by giving its interface identifier and a numeric status value. The ChannelStatusRequest message may ask for the status of more than one data channel by including a list of interface identifiers, but cannot include the sender's status.
The possible status of the data channel currently reported in the CHANNEL_STATUS object are:
o          Signal Okay (OK): Channel is operational
o          Signal Degrade (SD): A soft failure caused by a BER exceeding a preselected threshold.  The specific BER used to define the threshold is configured.
o          Signal Fail (SF): A hard signal failure including (but not limited to) loss of signal (LOS), loss of frame (LOF), or Line AIS.
So we can extend the channel status values to indicate the cross-connection status of the Data Channel. By exchanging the Data Channel Status between the two ends of the data link, we can find the data channel mismatches if there are some.

[dan] This is possible, but has a backwards compatibility issue because the field is a number not a bit-field. It is not possible to continue to represent the existing statuses as well as the new statuses. A better solution, therefore, would be to add a new object to the message.
[dan] It is also the case that this mechanism requires and additional message exchange for both ends to know that the link is correctly operational.

Best regards,


Dan Li

Advanced Technology Department
Wireline Networking Business Unit
Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.
Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang,
Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China
Tel: +86-755-28972910
Fax: +86-755-28972935
***************************************************************************************
This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!
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<DIV>Hi,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>We have received many comments on this draft, some optional solutions also 
proposed for detecting the data channel mismatch status, here&nbsp;we try to 
summarize these options and what's&nbsp;our understanding:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1. Use BeginVerify and BeginVerifyAck Messages<BR><BR>The data channel 
mismatch situation also can be detected by using the BeginVerify and 
BeginVerfyAck Messages. <BR>Whenever the "available" side wants to determine 
whether any data channel mismatches exist it starts an LMP verification process. 
[RFC4204] states:<BR>Therefore, to ensure proper verification of data 
link<BR>connectivity, it is required that, until the data links are<BR>allocated 
for user traffic, they must be opaque (i.e., lose<BR>their transparency). To 
support various degrees of opaqueness<BR>(e.g., examining overhead bytes, 
terminating the IP payload,<BR>etc.) and, hence, different mechanisms to 
transport the Test<BR>messages, a Verify Transport Mechanism field is included 
in<BR>the BeginVerify and BeginVerifyAck messages."<BR></DIV>
<DIV>This means that when data links are de-allocated they should re-enter that 
opaque state.<BR>The issue is that the BeginVerify does not exchange DATA LINK 
but LINK objects (there is no flags in the former) hence the only reply you 
would receive is "unwilling to verify" while ideally you should receive 
"unwilling to verify (allocated)" such as the other side can map it with local 
knowledge and detect the mismatch.<BR><BR>[dan] Right, so it would be necessary 
to extend the BeginVerify to include a list of DATA LINKs (as we have done in 
our new messages) presumably as sub-information of the LINK so that all data 
links associated with the link are confirmed at the same time.<BR>The really big 
issue I have with this is that Verify is a destructive process. That is, you can 
use your confirm process described in the previous section while data is 
passing, but the Verify process requires that the data links are opaque. I think 
that this means that it is not an acceptable option.<BR><BR>2. Use Fault 
Management Messages<BR><BR>Per [RFC4204], LMP supports the possibility to signal 
the status of a data channel using the Fault Management procedures. The 
ChannelStatusRequest message is ued by one end of a data channel to request that 
the other end sends back a report on its view of the status of the data channel 
in a ChannelStatus message. The ChannelStatus message includes a CHANNEL_STATUS 
object to list each reported data channel by giving its interface identifier and 
a numeric status value. The ChannelStatusRequest message may ask for the status 
of more than one data channel by including a list of interface identifiers, but 
cannot include the sender's status.<BR>The possible status of the data channel 
currently reported in the CHANNEL_STATUS object 
are:<BR>o&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Signal Okay 
(OK): Channel is 
operational<BR>o&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Signal 
Degrade (SD): A soft failure caused by a BER exceeding a preselected 
threshold.&nbsp; The specific BER used to define the threshold is 
configured.<BR>o&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Signal 
Fail (SF): A hard signal failure including (but not limited to) loss of signal 
(LOS), loss of frame (LOF), or Line AIS.<BR>So we can extend the channel status 
values to indicate the cross-connection status of the Data Channel. By 
exchanging the Data Channel Status between the two ends of the data link, we can 
find the data channel mismatches if there are some.<BR><BR>[dan] This is 
possible, but has a backwards compatibility issue because the field is a number 
not a bit-field. It is not possible to continue to represent the existing 
statuses as well as the new statuses. A better solution, therefore, would be to 
add a new object to the message.<BR>[dan] It is also the case that this 
mechanism requires and additional message exchange for both ends to know that 
the link is correctly operational.<BR><BR>Best regards,<BR></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dan Li</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Advanced Technology Department<BR>Wireline Networking Business 
Unit<BR>Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.<BR>Huawei Base, Bantian, 
Longgang,<BR>Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China<BR>Tel: +86-755-28972910<BR>Fax: 
+86-755-28972935<BR>***************************************************************************************<BR>This 
e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which 
is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use 
of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, 
total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other 
than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in 
error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete 
it!<BR>***************************************************************************************<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:59:02 +0000
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:52:02 +0800
From: Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
To: Peng He <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
Cc: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Greg Mirsky <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, pce@ietf.org
Message-id: <006801c74a84$795a7ba0$7d0c6f0a@china.huawei.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
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Hi, Peng



>I agreed with the following:
> 
> "... we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't
>>> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.
>>> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the
>>> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
>>
>> Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope
>> since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area scope ?"
> 
> I guess following the thinking line of this draft, we might need
> another extension so as to advertising "inter-area" TE links into
> non-backbone areas, or, just treat one area as a "domain"?
Not sure if there really are inter-area TE links. Apart from the inter-AS links,
all physical links exist exactly in one area for sure.

> 
> And in Renhai's "[ZRH]I try to give an answer.", last line, how to
> perform this inter-area computation? per-area? or Backward Recursive
> Path Computation in a multi-area AS?
Currently, there is no limitation of computation method, I think this is not what
is intended to be discussed in this draft. However, this draft does provide the 
necessary info no matter which method is deployed.

Thanks,
Zhang Renhai

> 
> Regards,
> Peng
> 
> On 2/6/07, Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com> wrote:
>> Hi, JP
>>
>> See in-line please.
>>
>> > Hi Adrian,
>> >
>> > On Feb 5, 2007, at 7:11 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Greg,
>> >>
>> >>> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
>> >>> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
>> >>> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
>> >>> ASBR.
>> >>
>> >> So the question has to be:
>> >> Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?
>> >>
>> >> What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?
>> >>
>> >> If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE
>> >> that is a BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs
>> >> today are capable of path computation and could handle this case
>> >> (for example, for the pd-path scenario) without needing to consult
>> >> an external PCE.
>> >>
>> >>> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
>> >>> information throughout both AS and an area
>> >>
>> >> I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are
>> >> talking about, and how this compares with the number of TE links
>> >> within an area.
>> >>
>> >
>> > It is probably negligible ... Note that by contrast with the approach
>> > proposing to flooding Inter-ASBR TE LSP, we're only looking at
>> > flooding the TE information of the inter-ASBR *links*.
>> >
>> >>> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
>> >>> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
>> >>> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
>> >>> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. I think
>> >>> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
>> >>> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
>> >>> LSR/LER.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, that would be the case.
>> >
>> >> I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't
>> >> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.
>> >> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the
>> >> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
>> >
>> > Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope
>> > since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area scope ?
>> [ZRH]I try to give an answer.
>> With a new sub-tlv(remote AS number)and a new link type
>> (inter-AS link type) are specified, in a multi-areas AS, the entry ASBR
>> when receving a path mesg can get the exit ASBR(in another area) with
>> this AS-scope advertisement and the path mesg(downstream AS number
>> is given in ERO). then, the inter-area computation can be performed.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Zhang Renhai
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
>> >>> following:
>> >>> "   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing advertisements of
>> >>>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths that
>> >>>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter the AS.
>> >>>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST
>> >>> only
>> >>>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at the
>> >>>   router or PCE computing the path."
>> >>> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong
>> >>> to two
>> >>> different neighboring ASes?
>> >>
>> >> Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes are
>> >> linked by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal
>> >> circumstances leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1
>> >> from AS2 through TE link 2.
>> >>
>> >> The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with
>> >> two links, the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be
>> >> detected as a loop in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit anyway.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > JP.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Adrian
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>



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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 21:35:56 -0500
From: "Peng He" <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
To: "Zhang Renhai" <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
Cc: "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,  "Greg Mirsky" <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org,  pce@ietf.org
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I agreed with the following:

"... we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't
>> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.
>> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the
>> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
>
> Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope
> since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area scope ?"

I guess following the thinking line of this draft, we might need
another extension so as to advertising "inter-area" TE links into
non-backbone areas, or, just treat one area as a "domain"?

And in Renhai's "[ZRH]I try to give an answer.", last line, how to
perform this inter-area computation? per-area? or Backward Recursive
Path Computation in a multi-area AS?

Regards,
Peng

On 2/6/07, Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com> wrote:
> Hi, JP
>
> See in-line please.
>
> > Hi Adrian,
> >
> > On Feb 5, 2007, at 7:11 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Greg,
> >>
> >>> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
> >>> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
> >>> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
> >>> ASBR.
> >>
> >> So the question has to be:
> >> Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?
> >>
> >> What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?
> >>
> >> If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE
> >> that is a BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs
> >> today are capable of path computation and could handle this case
> >> (for example, for the pd-path scenario) without needing to consult
> >> an external PCE.
> >>
> >>> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
> >>> information throughout both AS and an area
> >>
> >> I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are
> >> talking about, and how this compares with the number of TE links
> >> within an area.
> >>
> >
> > It is probably negligible ... Note that by contrast with the approach
> > proposing to flooding Inter-ASBR TE LSP, we're only looking at
> > flooding the TE information of the inter-ASBR *links*.
> >
> >>> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
> >>> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
> >>> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
> >>> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. I think
> >>> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
> >>> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
> >>> LSR/LER.
> >>
> >> Yes, that would be the case.
> >
> >> I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't
> >> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.
> >> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the
> >> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
> >
> > Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope
> > since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area scope ?
> [ZRH]I try to give an answer.
> With a new sub-tlv(remote AS number)and a new link type
> (inter-AS link type) are specified, in a multi-areas AS, the entry ASBR
> when receving a path mesg can get the exit ASBR(in another area) with
> this AS-scope advertisement and the path mesg(downstream AS number
> is given in ERO). then, the inter-area computation can be performed.
>
> Regards,
> Zhang Renhai
>
> >
> >>
> >>> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
> >>> following:
> >>> "   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing advertisements of
> >>>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths that
> >>>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter the AS.
> >>>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST
> >>> only
> >>>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at the
> >>>   router or PCE computing the path."
> >>> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong
> >>> to two
> >>> different neighboring ASes?
> >>
> >> Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes are
> >> linked by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal
> >> circumstances leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1
> >> from AS2 through TE link 2.
> >>
> >> The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with
> >> two links, the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be
> >> detected as a loop in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit anyway.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > JP.
> >
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Adrian
> >
> >
>
>



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 19:52:25 +0000
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Non-member submission from [Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>]   
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 19:48:42 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
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> From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>
> To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
> Cc: sandy@tislabs.com (Sandy Murphy),  adrian@olddog.co.uk,
> ccamp@ops.ietf.org,  dbrungard@att.com,  derek@ihtfp.com
> Subject: Re: Security considerations with 
> draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-07
> References: <016001c743a1$c52e9af0$76849ed9@your029b8cecfe>
> <5.0.0.25.2.20070130153346.04c50a00@zircon.juniper.net>
> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:10:36 -0500
> In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070130153346.04c50a00@zircon.juniper.net> (Ross
> Callon's message of "Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:59:52 -0500")
> Message-ID: <tsltzxzp0er.fsf@cz.mit.edu>
>
> I think we may need a conference call on this.  What times would work
> for people next week?
>
> Also, let me make a concrete proposal to move forward.  I suspect that
> this will not be acceptable to the WG, but hopefully it will be a
> starting point for discussion and will make it clear that I'm not
> asking you to redesign RSVP so that malicious routers can do no
> damage.
>
> It seems clear from the discussions to date that many path messages
> will be reasonable to use with this mechanism.  Adrian has tried to
> argue that all path messages are safe to use with this mechansim; I
> think Sandy and I have not been convinced by his arguments.
>
> One way to move forward would be to analyze every object that can
> appear in a path message now and in the future and make sure they are
> safe with this mechanism.  Adrian has indicated that he'd like to
> avoid that work.
>
> So, I wonder if we can limit the analysis work to that which is
> actually required.  I propose that we establish an IANA registry of
> objects that can appear in path messages.  For each object we indicate
> whether restart is permitted and give a reference to the spec
> containing restart security considerations for that object.
>
> Restarting nodes must not use the procedures in this draft if they
> receive a path message with an object for which restart permitted is
> no (or for which no analysis has been done); downstream nodes MUST NOT
> engage in these procedures if analysis has been done for an object in
> the path message and restart is not permitted.
>
>
> That would at least allow us to spread out the analysis over time.
> Also, especially for things already existing, I'm not looking at
> detailed documentation.  If the CCAMP folks today are quite sure all
> their existing objects create no significant new vulnerabilities, then
> say that and register them all in this document.





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 06:27:10 +0000
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:26:26 +0800
From: Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Greg Mirsky <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, pce@ietf.org
Message-id: <00ec01c749b7$bb2a1a90$7d0c6f0a@china.huawei.com>
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Hi, JP

See in-line please.

> Hi Adrian,
> 
> On Feb 5, 2007, at 7:11 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> 
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>>> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
>>> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
>>> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
>>> ASBR.
>>
>> So the question has to be:
>> Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?
>>
>> What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?
>>
>> If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE  
>> that is a BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs  
>> today are capable of path computation and could handle this case  
>> (for example, for the pd-path scenario) without needing to consult  
>> an external PCE.
>>
>>> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
>>> information throughout both AS and an area
>>
>> I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are  
>> talking about, and how this compares with the number of TE links  
>> within an area.
>>
> 
> It is probably negligible ... Note that by contrast with the approach  
> proposing to flooding Inter-ASBR TE LSP, we're only looking at  
> flooding the TE information of the inter-ASBR *links*.
> 
>>> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
>>> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
>>> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
>>> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. I think
>>> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
>>> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
>>> LSR/LER.
>>
>> Yes, that would be the case.
> 
>> I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't  
>> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.  
>> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the  
>> nested case as simply a flat sequence.
> 
> Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope  
> since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area scope ?
[ZRH]I try to give an answer.
With a new sub-tlv(remote AS number)and a new link type
(inter-AS link type) are specified, in a multi-areas AS, the entry ASBR 
when receving a path mesg can get the exit ASBR(in another area) with
this AS-scope advertisement and the path mesg(downstream AS number
is given in ERO). then, the inter-area computation can be performed.

Regards,
Zhang Renhai

> 
>>
>>> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
>>> following:
>>> "   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing advertisements of
>>>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths that
>>>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter the AS.
>>>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST  
>>> only
>>>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at the
>>>   router or PCE computing the path."
>>> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong  
>>> to two
>>> different neighboring ASes?
>>
>> Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes are  
>> linked by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal  
>> circumstances leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1  
>> from AS2 through TE link 2.
>>
>> The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with  
>> two links, the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be  
>> detected as a loop in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit anyway.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> JP.
> 
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrian
> 
>



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 06:14:00 +0000
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:11:32 +0800
From: Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
To: Greg Mirsky <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, pce@ietf.org
Message-id: <00dc01c749b5$a619ded0$7d0c6f0a@china.huawei.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi,

See in-line please.


> Hi Greg,
> 
>> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
>> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
>> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
>> ASBR.
[ZRH]What do you mean by "eBGP", should it be "iBGP"?
> 
> So the question has to be:
> Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?
> 
> What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?
> 
> If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE that is a 
> BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs today are capable of 
> path computation and could handle this case (for example, for the pd-path 
> scenario) without needing to consult an external PCE.
> 
>> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
>> information throughout both AS and an area
> 
> I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are talking 
> about, and how this compares with the number of TE links within an area.
[ZRH]Indeed, so I don't think the additional advertisement in this draft will 
bring out a new scalability issue.

> 
>> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
>> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
>> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
>> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. 
[ZRH]Indeed, as Adrian said below, we still havn't consider very clear some
inter-AS TE applications, consequently, the way for choosing  type 11 or type 10 is not 
given in the draft so far. I just want to relax it for the future discussion and revise this accordingly.

I think
>> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
>> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
>> LSR/LER.
[ZRH]Currently, I also think the type 11 may be the batter choice. but I don't think now we have
enough proof to abandon the use of type 10.
> 
> Yes, that would be the case.
> I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't think we 
> have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e. areas in ASes) 
> given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the nested case as simply a 
> flat sequence.
> 
>> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
>> following:
>>"   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing advertisements of
>>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths that
>>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter the AS.
>>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST only
>>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at the
>>   router or PCE computing the path."
>> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong to two
>> different neighboring ASes?
> 
> Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes are linked 
> by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal circumstances 
> leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1 from AS2 through TE 
> link 2.
[ZRH]Yes, here I meant that we should have some method to prevent computation loop.
Think that there are two pairs of ABSR (R1, R2 belong to AS1 and R3, R4 belong to AS2)
and two links interconnect them(R1 connected with R3, R2 connected with R4 )
and a intra-AS link interconnects R3 and R4. There would be a possibility of computation
loop.

Regards,
Zhng Renhai

> 
> The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with two links, 
> the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be detected as a loop 
> in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit anyway.
> 
> Regards,
> Adrian 
> 
> 
>



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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 20:45:10 -0500
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Greg Mirsky <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>
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Hi Adrian,

On Feb 5, 2007, at 7:11 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
>> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
>> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
>> ASBR.
>
> So the question has to be:
> Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?
>
> What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?
>
> If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE  
> that is a BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs  
> today are capable of path computation and could handle this case  
> (for example, for the pd-path scenario) without needing to consult  
> an external PCE.
>
>> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
>> information throughout both AS and an area
>
> I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are  
> talking about, and how this compares with the number of TE links  
> within an area.
>

It is probably negligible ... Note that by contrast with the approach  
proposing to flooding Inter-ASBR TE LSP, we're only looking at  
flooding the TE information of the inter-ASBR *links*.

>> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
>> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
>> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
>> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. I think
>> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
>> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
>> LSR/LER.
>
> Yes, that would be the case.
> I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't  
> think we have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e.  
> areas in ASes) given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the  
> nested case as simply a flat sequence.

Looking at the nested case, what would be the point of domain-scope  
since all TE-related info for the intra-area links have an area scope ?

>
>> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
>> following:
>> "   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing advertisements of
>>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths that
>>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter the AS.
>>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST  
>> only
>>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at the
>>   router or PCE computing the path."
>> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong  
>> to two
>> different neighboring ASes?
>
> Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes are  
> linked by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal  
> circumstances leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1  
> from AS2 through TE link 2.
>
> The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with  
> two links, the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be  
> detected as a loop in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit anyway.

Thanks.

JP.

>
> Regards,
> Adrian



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 00:14:49 +0000
Message-ID: <0e3e01c74983$6aab40a0$76849ed9@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Greg Mirsky" <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>
Cc: "Zhang Renhai" <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, <pce@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 00:11:49 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
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Hi Greg,

> - would you agree that usually ASBRs are eBGP speakers
> and are fully mesh connected. In that case eBGP can be
> viable solution for the inter-AS TE links computation by
> ASBR.

So the question has to be:
Do other nodes apart from ASBRs need this information?

What about an ingress LSR trying to compute a path out of the AS?

If we require that the ingress LSR always consults an external PCE that is a 
BGP speaker, then I guess this is fine, but most LSRs today are capable of 
path computation and could handle this case (for example, for the pd-path 
scenario) without needing to consult an external PCE.

> - I'm concerned with scaling aspect of flooding inter-AS TE
> information throughout both AS and an area

I have this concern, too, but I wonder how many TE links we are talking 
about, and how this compares with the number of TE links within an area.

> and I see that  you're concerned as well (SHOULD for Type
> 10 and MAY for Type 11). I think that it would be
> helpful if use of both Type 10 and Type 11 for inter-AS
> TE Link advertisement be illustrated by scenarios. I think
> that use of area scope makes these OSPF extensions less
> applicable to inter-AS path computation by the head-end
> LSR/LER.

Yes, that would be the case.
I agree that we need to look more closely at the scenarios. I don't think we 
have given enough thought to the nested domains case (i.e. areas in ASes) 
given that both pd-path and brpc (largely) treat the nested case as simply a 
flat sequence.

> - Could you please illustrate which links are excluded by the
> following:
>"   Routers or PCEs that are capable of processing advertisements of
>   inter-AS TE links SHOULD NOT use such links to compute paths that
>   exit an AS to a remote ASBR and then immediately re-enter the AS.
>   Such paths would constitute extremely rare occurrences and MUST only
>   be allowed as the result of specific policy configuration at the
>   router or PCE computing the path."
> Are there two links that interconnect a pair of ASBRs that belong to two
> different neighboring ASes?

Renhai can comment, but I assumed that this meant that two ASes are linked 
by more than two TE links. The LSP should not under normal circumstances 
leave AS1 to AS2 through TE link 1 and return to AS1 from AS2 through TE 
link 2.

The example you give (ASBR1 in AS1 connects to ASBR2 in AS2 with two links, 
the LSP goes out on one and back on the other) would be detected as a loop 
in RSVP-TE, and would not offer any benefit anyway.

Regards,
Adrian 





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Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:42:43 +0530
Message-ID: <D309264CD3651841AA75658A61044758483C75@CHN-HCLT-EVS02.HCLT.CORP.HCL.IN>
Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
Thread-Index: AcdHBYNpfs4FSs0pQyGUfyhshRyCiQB5qwzQ
From: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>

In atleast one network that I know of, there are inter-AS links which
are multi-access ( GigE links connected by switches), but currently not
enabled for TE because TE is not deployed in the network. But if the TE
is deployed in this network then the inter-AS link will become a TE
link.

Regards
Vijay

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]
> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 1:35 AM
> To: Mach Chen; Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai.
> Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: I-D
ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>=20
> Hmmm.
>=20
> Question: Does anyone use multi-access TE links between ASes?
>=20
> If so, we should address them (probably the same way that we address
them
> within an AS/area - that is by defining a separate link type). But if
no-
> one
> uses them, then we should leave that definition until there is a need.
>=20
> I see that section 3.2 of Mach's I-D is very explicit that the new
link
> type
> is p2p, so that is good.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Adrian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>
> To: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
> Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:19 AM
> Subject: Re: I-D
ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>=20
>=20
> > Hi vijay,
> >
> > First, thanks for your questions.
> >
> > So far this version doesn't mention inter-as multi-access links, an
> > alternative method, as you said,
> > of describing this kind of links is to treat them as multiple P2P
links.
> I
> > will supplement this description
> > in the future revised version.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Mach
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
> > To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:30 PM
> > Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-
> 01.txt
> >
> >
> >
> > The draft does not seem to address multi-access links between ASes.
> > Should the inter-AS link only be a point to point link or you are
trying
> > to model multi-access links as multiple P2P links ( in which case
B.W
> > calculations etc would not be straightforward)
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > Vijay
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
> > Behalf
> >> Of Mach Chen
> >> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 6:49 AM
> >> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> >> Subject: Fw: I-D
> > ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> We have just submitted the second revision of our
> > I-D,draft-chen-ccamp-
> >> ospf-interas-te-extensions.
> >>
> >> The problem we are trying to solve is how a PCE or entry-point ASBR
> > can
> >> select the exit-point ASBR for a TE LSP when it knows (from the
ERO)
> > the
> >> downstream AS or the downstream ASBR. We believe that IGP needs to
> > flood
> >> the inter-AS TE links together with additional information about
the
> >> neighboring AS and ASBR. The problem arises for both the pd-path
and
> > brpc
> >> computation methods.
> >>
> >> We would welcome your input on our problem statement and our
proposed
> >> solution.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Mach & Renhai
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
> >> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> >> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:50 AM
> >> Subject: I-D
ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> >>
> >>
> >> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> >> > directories.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS (G)MPLS TE
> >> > Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang
> >> > Filename : draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> >> > Pages : 11
> >> > Date : 2007-2-1
> >> >
> >> > This document describes extensions to the OSPF protocol to
support
> >> >   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS
(GMPLS)
> >> >   Traffic Engineering (TE) for multiple Autonomous Systems
(ASes).
> > It
> >> >   defines OSPF extensions for the flooding of inter-AS links
which
> > can
> >> >   be used to perform inter-AS path computation.
> >> >
> >> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >> >
> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-
> >> extension-01.txt
> >> >
> >> > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message
to
> >> > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the
body
> > of
> >> > the message.
> >> > You can also visit
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce
> >> > to change your subscription settings.
> >> >
> >> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with
the
> >> > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After
> >> > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> >> > "get draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt".
> >> >
> >> > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> >> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> >> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >> >
> >> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
> >> >
> >> > Send a message to:
> >> > mailserv@ietf.org.
> >> > In the body type:
> >> > "FILE
/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-
> >> 01.txt".
> >> >
> >> > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> >> > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
> >> > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> >> > command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> >> > a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail
readers
> >> > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> >> > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> >> > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> >> > how to manipulate these messages.
> >> >
> >> > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> >> > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> >> > Internet-Draft.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >> ------
> >>
> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > I-D-Announce mailing list
> >> > I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> >> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>=20


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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
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Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>, <raymond_zhang@bt.infonet.com>
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 10:17:10 -0500
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Thanks Adrian, will be done this week.

Cheers.

JP.

On Feb 4, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As promised, I have done a review of this I-D to help the authors  
> prepare it
> for WG last call. In my opinion, the draft is in pretty good shape,  
> but
> there are a few minor issues.
>
> If the authors can submit a new version to address these comments  
> and those raised on the list resently, we can
> take the I-D forward.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> ===
>
> Authors' details.
>
> Need to update Arthi's contact details.
>
> ===
>
> Boilerplate
>
> Need the new IETF Trust boilerplate
>
> ===
>
> Intended status
>
> Why is this Standard Track?
> Seems to me that there are no protocol extensions in this I-D, and  
> no procedures that are dependent on interoperability.
>
> In fact, I am not comfortable with the use of 2119 language in this  
> I-D since the choice seems to be available per-domain and per-LSP.
>
> ===
>
> Page headings
>
> Draft name is not complete
>
> ===
>
> Terminology
>
> s/ABR Router/ABR/
> s/ASBR Router/ASBR/
>
> Need to add "AS" to your list. (So says the RFC Editor).
>
> ===
>
> Section 3.1 has
>   The paths for the intra-domain Hierarchical LSPs (H-LSP) or S-LSPs
>   (S-LSP) or for a contiguous TE LSP
>
> s/S-LSPs (S-LSP)/Stitched LSPs (S-LSPs)/
>
> ===
>
> Section 4
>
> In this section the text sometimes is exclusive to "area", although  
> sometimes you do describe "area or AS".
>
> You do not want to give the impression that the cases where you  
> only mention "area" do not apply to "ASes", but you also probably  
> don't want the text to be clumsy with having to reference both  
> cases every time. Consider using "domain" to include both cases.
>
> ===
>
> Section 4 paragraph 3
>
> You have...
>
>   When an LSR (e.g. a boundary node such as an ABR/ASBR) receives a
>   Path message with an ERO that contains a loose hop or an abstract
>   node that is not a simple abstract node (that is, an abstract node
>   that identifies more than one LSR), then it MUST follow the
>   procedures as described in [I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp- 
> te].  In
>   addition, the following procedures describe the path computation
>   procedures that SHOULD be carried out on the LSR:
>
> But this is not true!
> I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te specifically describes  
> procedures at domain border nodes.
> You can fix your text by changing the first line to read...
>
>   When an LSR that is a boundary node (e.g. an ABR or ASBR) receives a
>
> ===
>
> Section 4 procedures
>
> This text would benefit from some careful indentation to make it  
> easier to see how the cases are nested.
>
> Case 1.
> I think it is important to understand that an LSR that find the  
> next loose hop to be absent from its TED does not know that that  
> hop refers to a boundary node. Indeed, it might refer to the  
> destination or to an AS number.
> So the point here is that the next hop is not in the TED, and the  
> LSR must determine the domain exit boundary node to use to route  
> toward the next loose hop.
>
> ===
>
> Throughout
>
> s/PErr/PathErr/
>
> ===
>
> Section 4  Case 2) b) i)
> This case should point out that, in addition to local policy, the  
> signaling information described in I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp- 
> te can control whether an LSP is a candidate for hierarchy or  
> stitching.
>
> ===
>
> Section 4
>
> You have...
>
>   The links interconnecting ASBRs are usually not TE-enabled and no  
> IGP
>   is running at the AS boundaries.  An implementation supporting
>   inter-AS MPLS TE MUST allow the set up of inter-AS TE LSP over the
>   region interconnecting multiple ASBRs.  In other words, an ASBR
>   compliant with this document MUST support the set up of TE LSP over
>   inter-ASBR links and MUST be able to perform all the usual  
> operations
>   related to MPLS Traffic Engineering (call admission control, ...).
>
> This use of "MUST" is in contradiction with previous text that says  
> LSRs MAY reject LSPs if they don't want to use the "auto-discovery"  
> mechanisms. It also seems to be a violation of an administration's  
> policy options.
>
> ===
>
> Section 5
>
> s/does no meet/does not meet/
>
> ===
>
> Section 6
>
>   The ability to reoptimize an already established inter-domain TE LSP
>   constitutes a requirement.
>
> Can you give a reference for the requirement?
>
> ===
>
> Section 6.2
>
> You have...
>
>   Note that stitching or nesting rely on local optimization: the
>   reoptimization process allows to locally reoptimize each TE S-LSP or
>   H-LSP: hence, the reoptimization is not global and consequently the
>   end-to-end path may no longer be optimal should it be optimal when
>   being set up.
>
> This text contradicts the previous paragraph!
>
> I think that what you are trying to say is something very different  
> and should probably be in its own section, "End-to-end  
> Reoptimization".
>
>   It is possible that a more optimal end-to-end path will arise that
>   cannot be achieved by local reoptimization solely within a domain.
>   For example, the new, more optimal path may require the use of
>   different domain border nodes, or even the selection of different
>   domains.
>
>   Such situations cannot usually be detected by the individual domains
>   on the existing path, and so they cannot be reported to the head-end
>   LSR. They certainly cannot be fixed by local optimization of H-LSPs
>   or S-LSPs within any one domain.
>
>   These scenarios can only be resolved by new end-to-end signaling  
> with
>   new path computation, and the use of make-before-break to establish
>   the new LSP and switchover traffic with minimal disruption. New end-
>   to-end signaling works with all three methods of inter-domain LSP
>   setup.
>
> ===
>
> The security section here looks very light.
>
> I think you could do with explaining that this process for  
> establishing paths does not increase the information exchanged  
> between ASes and preserves topology confidentiality.
>
> But there are three aspects that remain open:
> 1. A downstream AS could "fail" to route an LSP because it does not  
> like one of the downstream ASes in the ERO.
> 2. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP on an unfavorable  
> path because it doesn't like the source or destination.
> 3. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP through an AS that  
> is not listed in the ERO, perhaps for financial reasons.
>
> So, some discussion is needed. Perhaps all you need to say is that:
> -  pd-path assumes commercial arrangements between peered ASes
>  and probably between source AS and all transit ASes
> - pd-path is at least as good as pre-existing techniques
> - greater path control can be achieved by using more complex  
> computation
>   techniques
> - there is a fundamental trust relationship at AS borders that must be
>  assumed in order to have inter-AS traffic.
>
> You can also forward-reference Luyuan's MPLS-TE security work.
>
> ===
>
> References
>
> Update I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-framework to RFC 4726
>
> The IESG are now quite exercised by down-refs in I-Ds. As a result,  
> I suggest that you move RFC2702 to the Informative References section.
>
> Remove the reference to I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp  
> from the Informative References section.
>
> I-D.ietf-pce-architecture is now RFC 4655
>
> ===



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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "'Jean Philippe Vasseur'" <jvasseur@cisco.com>, "Arthi Ayyangar" <arthi@nuovasystems.com>, <raymond_zhang@bt.infonet.com>
Subject: Chair review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-03.txt
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 11:52:18 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
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Hi,

As promised, I have done a review of this I-D to help the authors prepare it
 for WG last call. In my opinion, the draft is in pretty good shape, but
 there are a few minor issues.

 If the authors can submit a new version to address these comments and those 
raised on the list resently, we can
 take the I-D forward.

 Thanks,
Adrian

===

Authors' details.

Need to update Arthi's contact details.

===

Boilerplate

Need the new IETF Trust boilerplate

===

Intended status

Why is this Standard Track?
Seems to me that there are no protocol extensions in this I-D, and no 
procedures that are dependent on interoperability.

In fact, I am not comfortable with the use of 2119 language in this I-D 
since the choice seems to be available per-domain and per-LSP.

===

Page headings

Draft name is not complete

===

Terminology

s/ABR Router/ABR/
s/ASBR Router/ASBR/

Need to add "AS" to your list. (So says the RFC Editor).

===

Section 3.1 has
   The paths for the intra-domain Hierarchical LSPs (H-LSP) or S-LSPs
   (S-LSP) or for a contiguous TE LSP

s/S-LSPs (S-LSP)/Stitched LSPs (S-LSPs)/

===

Section 4

In this section the text sometimes is exclusive to "area", although 
sometimes you do describe "area or AS".

You do not want to give the impression that the cases where you only mention 
"area" do not apply to "ASes", but you also probably don't want the text to 
be clumsy with having to reference both cases every time. Consider using 
"domain" to include both cases.

===

Section 4 paragraph 3

You have...

   When an LSR (e.g. a boundary node such as an ABR/ASBR) receives a
   Path message with an ERO that contains a loose hop or an abstract
   node that is not a simple abstract node (that is, an abstract node
   that identifies more than one LSR), then it MUST follow the
   procedures as described in [I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te].  In
   addition, the following procedures describe the path computation
   procedures that SHOULD be carried out on the LSR:

But this is not true!
I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te specifically describes procedures at 
domain border nodes.
You can fix your text by changing the first line to read...

   When an LSR that is a boundary node (e.g. an ABR or ASBR) receives a

===

Section 4 procedures

This text would benefit from some careful indentation to make it easier to 
see how the cases are nested.

Case 1.
I think it is important to understand that an LSR that find the next loose 
hop to be absent from its TED does not know that that hop refers to a 
boundary node. Indeed, it might refer to the destination or to an AS number.
So the point here is that the next hop is not in the TED, and the LSR must 
determine the domain exit boundary node to use to route toward the next 
loose hop.

===

Throughout

s/PErr/PathErr/

===

Section 4  Case 2) b) i)
This case should point out that, in addition to local policy, the signaling 
information described in I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te can control 
whether an LSP is a candidate for hierarchy or stitching.

===

Section 4

You have...

   The links interconnecting ASBRs are usually not TE-enabled and no IGP
   is running at the AS boundaries.  An implementation supporting
   inter-AS MPLS TE MUST allow the set up of inter-AS TE LSP over the
   region interconnecting multiple ASBRs.  In other words, an ASBR
   compliant with this document MUST support the set up of TE LSP over
   inter-ASBR links and MUST be able to perform all the usual operations
   related to MPLS Traffic Engineering (call admission control, ...).

This use of "MUST" is in contradiction with previous text that says LSRs MAY 
reject LSPs if they don't want to use the "auto-discovery" mechanisms. It 
also seems to be a violation of an administration's policy options.

===

Section 5

s/does no meet/does not meet/

===

Section 6

   The ability to reoptimize an already established inter-domain TE LSP
   constitutes a requirement.

Can you give a reference for the requirement?

===

Section 6.2

You have...

   Note that stitching or nesting rely on local optimization: the
   reoptimization process allows to locally reoptimize each TE S-LSP or
   H-LSP: hence, the reoptimization is not global and consequently the
   end-to-end path may no longer be optimal should it be optimal when
   being set up.

This text contradicts the previous paragraph!

I think that what you are trying to say is something very different and 
should probably be in its own section, "End-to-end Reoptimization".

   It is possible that a more optimal end-to-end path will arise that
   cannot be achieved by local reoptimization solely within a domain.
   For example, the new, more optimal path may require the use of
   different domain border nodes, or even the selection of different
   domains.

   Such situations cannot usually be detected by the individual domains
   on the existing path, and so they cannot be reported to the head-end
   LSR. They certainly cannot be fixed by local optimization of H-LSPs
   or S-LSPs within any one domain.

   These scenarios can only be resolved by new end-to-end signaling with
   new path computation, and the use of make-before-break to establish
   the new LSP and switchover traffic with minimal disruption. New end-
   to-end signaling works with all three methods of inter-domain LSP
   setup.

===

The security section here looks very light.

I think you could do with explaining that this process for establishing 
paths does not increase the information exchanged between ASes and preserves 
topology confidentiality.

But there are three aspects that remain open:
1. A downstream AS could "fail" to route an LSP because it does not like one 
of the downstream ASes in the ERO.
2. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP on an unfavorable path 
because it doesn't like the source or destination.
3. A downstream AS could choose to route the LSP through an AS that is not 
listed in the ERO, perhaps for financial reasons.

So, some discussion is needed. Perhaps all you need to say is that:
-  pd-path assumes commercial arrangements between peered ASes
  and probably between source AS and all transit ASes
- pd-path is at least as good as pre-existing techniques
- greater path control can be achieved by using more complex computation
   techniques
- there is a fundamental trust relationship at AS borders that must be
  assumed in order to have inter-AS traffic.

You can also forward-reference Luyuan's MPLS-TE security work.

===

References

Update I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-framework to RFC 4726

The IESG are now quite exercised by down-refs in I-Ds. As a result, I 
suggest that you move RFC2702 to the Informative References section.

Remove the reference to I-D.ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp from the 
Informative References section.

I-D.ietf-pce-architecture is now RFC 4655

=== 





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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Fw: Internet-Drafts Submission Cutoff Dates for the 68th IETF  Meeting in Prague, Czech Republic 
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 15:22:56 -0000
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Heads up.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ietf-secretariat@ietf.org>
To: <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 5:00 AM
Subject: Internet-Drafts Submission Cutoff Dates for the 68th IETF Meeting 
in Prague, Czech Republic


> There are two (2) Internet-Draft cutoff dates for the 68th
> IETF Meeting in Prague, Czech Republic:
>
> February 26th: Cutoff Date for Initial (i.e., version -00)
> Internet-Draft Submissions
>
> All initial Internet-Drafts (version -00) must be submitted by Monday,
> February 26th at 9:00 AM ET. As always, all initial submissions with a
> filename beginning with "draft-ietf" must be approved by the
> appropriate WG Chair before they can be processed or announced.  The
> Secretariat would appreciate receiving WG Chair approval by Monday,
> February 19th at 9:00 AM ET.
>
> March 5th: Cutoff Date for Revised (i.e., version -01 and higher)
> Internet-Draft Submissions
>
> All revised Internet-Drafts (version -01 and higher) must be submitted
> by Monday, March 5th at 9:00 AM ET.
>
> Initial and revised Internet-Drafts received after their respective
> cutoff dates will not be made available in the Internet-Drafts
> directory or announced until on or after Monday, March 19th at 9:00
> AM ET, when Internet-Draft posting resumes.  Please do not wait until
> the last minute to submit.
>
> Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. If you have any
> questions or concerns, then please send a message to
> internet-drafts@ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> FYI: The Internet-Draft cutoff dates as well as other significant dates
> for the 68th IETF Meeting can be found at 
> http://www.ietf.org/meetings/cutoff_dates_68.html. 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:06:04 +0000
Message-ID: <0a8801c74705$7c73a230$76849ed9@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>, "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 20:05:17 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
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Hmmm.

Question: Does anyone use multi-access TE links between ASes?

If so, we should address them (probably the same way that we address them 
within an AS/area - that is by defining a separate link type). But if no-one 
uses them, then we should leave that definition until there is a need.

I see that section 3.2 of Mach's I-D is very explicit that the new link type 
is p2p, so that is good.

Cheers,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>
To: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt


> Hi vijay,
>
> First, thanks for your questions.
>
> So far this version doesn't mention inter-as multi-access links, an 
> alternative method, as you said,
> of describing this kind of links is to treat them as multiple P2P links. I 
> will supplement this description
> in the future revised version.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mach
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
> To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:30 PM
> Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>
>
>
> The draft does not seem to address multi-access links between ASes.
> Should the inter-AS link only be a point to point link or you are trying
> to model multi-access links as multiple P2P links ( in which case B.W
> calculations etc would not be straightforward)
>
>
>
> Regards
> Vijay
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
> Behalf
>> Of Mach Chen
>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 6:49 AM
>> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
>> Subject: Fw: I-D
> ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have just submitted the second revision of our
> I-D,draft-chen-ccamp-
>> ospf-interas-te-extensions.
>>
>> The problem we are trying to solve is how a PCE or entry-point ASBR
> can
>> select the exit-point ASBR for a TE LSP when it knows (from the ERO)
> the
>> downstream AS or the downstream ASBR. We believe that IGP needs to
> flood
>> the inter-AS TE links together with additional information about the
>> neighboring AS and ASBR. The problem arises for both the pd-path and
> brpc
>> computation methods.
>>
>> We would welcome your input on our problem statement and our proposed
>> solution.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Mach & Renhai
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
>> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:50 AM
>> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>>
>>
>> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>> > directories.
>> >
>> >
>> > Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS (G)MPLS TE
>> > Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang
>> > Filename : draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>> > Pages : 11
>> > Date : 2007-2-1
>> >
>> > This document describes extensions to the OSPF protocol to support
>> >   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS)
>> >   Traffic Engineering (TE) for multiple Autonomous Systems (ASes).
> It
>> >   defines OSPF extensions for the flooding of inter-AS links which
> can
>> >   be used to perform inter-AS path computation.
>> >
>> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>> >
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-
>> extension-01.txt
>> >
>> > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to
>> > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body
> of
>> > the message.
>> > You can also visit
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce
>> > to change your subscription settings.
>> >
>> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the
>> > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After
>> > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then
>> > "get draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt".
>> >
>> > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
>> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>> >
>> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
>> >
>> > Send a message to:
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>> > In the body type:
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>> 01.txt".
>> >
>> > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
>> > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
>> > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
>> > command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
>> > a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
>> > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
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>> > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
>> > how to manipulate these messages.
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>> > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
>> > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
>> > Internet-Draft.
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>>
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>> ------
>>
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>
>
>
>
> 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 19:51:30 +0000
Message-ID: <0a6e01c74703$3b3f0bd0$76849ed9@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Zhang Renhai" <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>, "Greg Mirsky" <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, <pce@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 19:41:19 -0000
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="GB2312"; reply-type=original
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Hi all,

>> I have couple questions related to Link ID
>> of inter-AS link. According to the document
>> it is the Router ID of Remote ASBR.

To be precise, the I-D says "TE Router ID". I think the difference is very 
important.

> [ZRH]Yes, and this can be easily got by manual
> configuration in the local ASBR.
>
>> My question:
>> - as I understand the mechanism of how TE
>> information for links R6-R9 and R8-R10 is
>> populated into R5's TE DB is outside the
>> scope of this document. I this mechanism
>> is not IGP but EGP (BGP), then what is the
>> benefit to introduce new LSA in IGP (OSPF)
>> and not use exisitng mechanisms.

I think you mean R8-R9 (at least in the latest revision of the I-D).

When you say an "existing mechanism" I don't think there is any mechanism 
for advertising TE information in BGP although there are proposed 
extensions. But there would be two issues:

1. How to stop the information propagating further than AS2 (AS1 does not 
want/need to know about the inter-AS links between AS2 and AS3). I guess we 
could use the new AS_PATHLIMIT stuff.

2. How to get the information into the TED of every LSR in AS2 without them 
all having to be BGP speakers. I think this is why the IGP is more 
appealing. The question arrises (as indicated by Renhai, below) as to 
whether this information only needs to reach PCEs, PCEs and ASBR, or all 
LSRs.

> [ZRH]I think BGP could also be another alternative
> especially for PCE scenario, but it's not very
> applicable to per-domian method because the inter-AS
> TE information may be needed throughout the local AS
> in case that the path computation function is
> distributed among LSRs in the local AS, and BGP can
> hardly advertise the TE information among those LSRs
> if BGP sessions are not established between the ASBR
> and those LSRs. So IGP extension is considered in this
> draft.

[SNIP]

>> PS. I think that OSPF WG needs to be informed as well.

Yes. If CCAMP and/or PCE think that this is something they want to pursue, 
then we will definitely need to discuss this with the OSPF working group. 
But I don't want to waste their time or energy before we have discussed this 
a bit more.

Thanks,
Adrian







Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 10:26:00 +0000
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 18:19:27 +0800
From: Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
To: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Message-id: <015d01c746b3$9f098500$5b0c6f0a@china.huawei.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
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Hi vijay,

First, thanks for your questions.

So far this version doesn't mention inter-as multi-access links, an alternative method, as you said, 
of describing this kind of links is to treat them as multiple P2P links. I will supplement this description
in the future revised version.

Best regards,

Mach

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:30 PM
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt



The draft does not seem to address multi-access links between ASes.
Should the inter-AS link only be a point to point link or you are trying
to model multi-access links as multiple P2P links ( in which case B.W
calculations etc would not be straightforward)



Regards
Vijay

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
Behalf
> Of Mach Chen
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 6:49 AM
> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Fw: I-D
ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> 
> Hi,
> 
> We have just submitted the second revision of our
I-D,draft-chen-ccamp-
> ospf-interas-te-extensions.
> 
> The problem we are trying to solve is how a PCE or entry-point ASBR
can
> select the exit-point ASBR for a TE LSP when it knows (from the ERO)
the
> downstream AS or the downstream ASBR. We believe that IGP needs to
flood
> the inter-AS TE links together with additional information about the
> neighboring AS and ASBR. The problem arises for both the pd-path and
brpc
> computation methods.
> 
> We would welcome your input on our problem statement and our proposed
> solution.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mach & Renhai
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:50 AM
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> 
> 
> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > directories.
> >
> >
> > Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS (G)MPLS TE
> > Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang
> > Filename : draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> > Pages : 11
> > Date : 2007-2-1
> >
> > This document describes extensions to the OSPF protocol to support
> >   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS)
> >   Traffic Engineering (TE) for multiple Autonomous Systems (ASes).
It
> >   defines OSPF extensions for the flooding of inter-AS links which
can
> >   be used to perform inter-AS path computation.
> >
> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-
> extension-01.txt
> >
> > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to
> > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body
of
> > the message.
> > You can also visit
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce
> > to change your subscription settings.
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the
> > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After
> > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> > "get draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt".
> >
> > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >
> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
> >
> > Send a message to:
> > mailserv@ietf.org.
> > In the body type:
> > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-
> 01.txt".
> >
> > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
> > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> > command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> > a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
> > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> > how to manipulate these messages.
> >
> > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> > Internet-Draft.
> >
> 
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ------
> 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> > I-D-Announce mailing list
> > I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> >




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Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 13:00:29 +0530
Message-ID: <D309264CD3651841AA75658A61044758441B36@CHN-HCLT-EVS02.HCLT.CORP.HCL.IN>
Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
thread-index: AcdGbDXY+2lKa9TiTmuhpmFhUcDRBAAL18EA
From: "Vijayanand C - TLS, Chennai." <vijayc@hcl.in>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>

The draft does not seem to address multi-access links between ASes.
Should the inter-AS link only be a point to point link or you are trying
to model multi-access links as multiple P2P links ( in which case B.W
calculations etc would not be straightforward)

Regards
Vijay

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
Behalf
> Of Mach Chen
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 6:49 AM
> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Fw: I-D
ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> We have just submitted the second revision of our
I-D,draft-chen-ccamp-
> ospf-interas-te-extensions.
>=20
> The problem we are trying to solve is how a PCE or entry-point ASBR
can
> select the exit-point ASBR for a TE LSP when it knows (from the ERO)
the
> downstream AS or the downstream ASBR. We believe that IGP needs to
flood
> the inter-AS TE links together with additional information about the
> neighboring AS and ASBR. The problem arises for both the pd-path and
brpc
> computation methods.
>=20
> We would welcome your input on our problem statement and our proposed
> solution.
>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
> Mach & Renhai
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:50 AM
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
>=20
>=20
> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > directories.
> >
> >
> > Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS (G)MPLS TE
> > Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang
> > Filename : draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> > Pages : 11
> > Date : 2007-2-1
> >
> > This document describes extensions to the OSPF protocol to support
> >   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS)
> >   Traffic Engineering (TE) for multiple Autonomous Systems (ASes).
It
> >   defines OSPF extensions for the flooding of inter-AS links which
can
> >   be used to perform inter-AS path computation.
> >
> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-
> extension-01.txt
> >
> > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to
> > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body
of
> > the message.
> > You can also visit
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce
> > to change your subscription settings.
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the
> > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After
> > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> > "get draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt".
> >
> > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >
> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
> >
> > Send a message to:
> > mailserv@ietf.org.
> > In the body type:
> > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-
> 01.txt".
> >
> > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
> > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> > command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> > a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
> > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> > how to manipulate these messages.
> >
> > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> > Internet-Draft.
> >
>=20
>=20
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ------
>=20
>=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > I-D-Announce mailing list
> > I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> >

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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 02:36:54 +0000
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 10:35:39 +0800
From: Zhang Renhai <zhangrenhai@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links
To: Greg Mirsky <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, pce@ietf.org
Message-id: <025401c74672$d67ada20$790c6f0a@china.huawei.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi, Greg

Thanks a lot for your question.
See inline please.

Dear Zhang,
I have couple questions related to Link ID of inter-AS link. According to the document it is the Router ID of Remote ASBR. 
[ZRH]Yes, and this can be easily got by manual configuration in the local ASBR.

My question:
- as I understand the mechanism of how TE information for links R6-R9 and R8-R10 is populated into R5's TE DB is outside the scope of this document. I this mechanism is not IGP but EGP (BGP), then what is the benefit to introduce new LSA in IGP (OSPF) and not use exisitng mechanisms.

[ZRH]I think BGP could also be another alternative especially for PCE scenario, but it's not very applicable to per-domian method because the inter-AS TE information may be needed throughout the local AS in case that the path computation function is distributed among LSRs in the local AS, and BGP can hardly advertise the TE information among those LSRs if BGP sessions are not established between the ASBR and those LSRs. So IGP extension is considered in this draft.

We have submitted the revised version of this draft, hoping make the problem statement more clear, and relax the use of type 11 opaque lsa, also allow Type 10 lsa (by which the advertising scope is an area of OSPF).
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt

Cheers,
Zhang Renhai


Regards,
Greg

PS. I think that OSPF WG needs to be informed as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: Zhang Renhai [mailto:zhangrenhai@huawei.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:38 PM
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org; pce@ietf.org
Subject: [Pce] A New Internet-Draft on Advertising of inter-AS TE links


Hi, allWe have just submitted the following draft in which we describe some problemsin inter-AS TE scenarios and the corresponding OSPF extension is introduced.PCE environment is also considerd in this I-d so I'd also like pce working groupto pay attention to it.we'd highly appreciate your comments.Thanks a lot,Zhang Renhai & Mach A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.


Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS (G)MPLS TE 
Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang
Filename : draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt
Pages : 9
Date : 2007-1-30

   This document describes extensions to the OSPF to support inter-AS 
   Traffic engineering (TE). It defines OSPF extensions for the flooding 
   of inter-AS links information which can be used to perform inter-AS 
   path computation. 


A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 01:21:12 +0000
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 09:18:48 +0800
From: Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Fw: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Message-id: <00a001c74668$178bced0$5b0c6f0a@china.huawei.com>
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Hi,

We have just submitted the second revision of our I-D,draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extensions.

The problem we are trying to solve is how a PCE or entry-point ASBR can select the exit-point ASBR for a TE LSP when it knows (from the ERO) the downstream AS or the downstream ASBR. We believe that IGP needs to flood the inter-AS TE links together with additional information about the neighboring AS and ASBR. The problem arises for both the pd-path and brpc computation methods.

We would welcome your input on our problem statement and our proposed solution.

Best regards,

Mach & Renhai

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:50 AM
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt


>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> directories.
> 
> 
> Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS (G)MPLS TE
> Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang
> Filename : draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> Pages : 11
> Date : 2007-2-1
> 
> This document describes extensions to the OSPF protocol to support 
>   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) 
>   Traffic Engineering (TE) for multiple Autonomous Systems (ASes). It 
>   defines OSPF extensions for the flooding of inter-AS links which can 
>   be used to perform inter-AS path computation.
> 
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt
> 
> To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to 
> i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of 
> the message. 
> You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce 
> to change your subscription settings.
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the 
> username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After 
> logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then 
> "get draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt".
> 
> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> 
> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
> 
> Send a message to:
> mailserv@ietf.org.
> In the body type:
> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-chen-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt".
> 
> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> how to manipulate these messages.
> 
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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