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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 05 02:55:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6LFG-0002NO-Bt for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 02:55:18 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6LFC-0005zU-18 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 02:55:18 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6L1x-0005LU-8O for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 06:41:33 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [193.180.251.60] (helo=mailgw3.ericsson.se) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6L1i-0005J6-Kp for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 06:41:26 +0000 Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id C7ACB209D6; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 08:41:15 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-b1e82bb0000007e1-24-468c928b4691 Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.123]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id A59A720049; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 08:41:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.78]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 5 Jul 2007 08:41:15 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7BECF.7BF24BBF" Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 08:39:59 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BD9E6@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604B253BC@FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Thread-Index: Ace9Qa6ZTl3jS1bxRCKUK9yWDVtLnAATdoXQAB5NhOAAAuz8EAAuiQKA From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" To: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jul 2007 06:41:15.0116 (UTC) FILETIME=[7BFEEAC0:01C7BECF] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 778b456acd32f555185589e04d062871 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BECF.7BF24BBF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Julien, Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the lambda switching is = what I've called spatial switching that is lambda1 portA --> lambda1 = portB what is not clear to me is how can be advertised an OEO = transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 --> lambda = 2. Adrian? Deb? Anyone else? BR Diego -----Original Message----- From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN = [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com]=20 Sent: mercoled=EC 4 luglio 2007 18.47 To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Hi Diego. I believe we should refer to the Holly RFC 3945, chapter 1, verse 2: - "Lambda Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of an = *individual wavelength*" [or a "group of wavelengths"], meaning that you = manipulate values of wavelengths (as AU-4 numbers [or AU-4 ranges] from = an SDH portA to SDH portB), like in a ROADM; - "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of a = single or multiple *fibers*", meaning *spatial switching* where you = don't consider the type of signal that ports convey (could be anything = like a black and white signal, a wavelength, a WDM multiplex, some = optical packets...), like in a OOO PXC. To stick with strict terminolgy: lambda =3D wavelength =3D (speedOfLight = / frequency) So if you need to do "frequency switching", then it is the so called = "lambda switching". :-) Anyway, this is my understanding, so if I'm wrong or if it's a = vocabulary issue because you find that terms are inappropriate, then = we'd better ask father Adrian and sister Deborah. Cheers, Julien -----Original Message----- From: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) [mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com]=20 Hi Julien, Actually not the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a single = lambda I didn't but the mux/demux In the picture sorry. The point I failed to illustrate is the ambiguity of the term "Lambda = Switch Capable" given that there two possible ways to switch a lambda. =20 The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda1 portB) = this is the way an all optical switch works and this why there is the = lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks. =20 The second one is the frequency switching: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 = portA) this switching can be done via a transponder (OEO) device. =20 Of course is possible to mix the two switching having (Lambda1 portA) = --> (Lambda2 portB) My impression is that the definition "Lambda Switch Capable" refers to = the spatial switching and thus I don't know how to model the fact that = after/before a photonic matrix I have a transponder. =20 I hope I've made my question clearer. Best Regards Diego -----Original Message----- From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN = [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com]=20 Sent: marted=EC 3 luglio 2007 19.21 To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Hi Diego. If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself is a PXC that has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you add lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you or anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card or in a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to work on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port B)]. As a result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which is "Lambda Switch Capable". If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your "lambda swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels aren't wavelengths but ports. But maybe I didn't get your actual issue. My 2 cents, Julien ________________________________ From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) Hi all, I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. =20 =20 =20 +-----------------+ | |-------+ | | OEO | | Lambda |-------+ | Switch | | | | | +-----------------+ =20 =20 The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability' the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to advertise? =20 BR Diego =20 Diego Caviglia Product Line ON BBN PA Broadband BNET =20 Marconi S.p.A Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy Via Anagnina,203 0018, Roma , Italy www.ericsson.com =20 =20 Office: +39 010 600 3736 Fax: +39 010 600 3493 Mobile: +39 335 7181762 Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com =20 This communication is confidential and intended solely for the addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any consequences thereof. =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BECF.7BF24BBF Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with = Transponder

Hi = Julien,

= Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the = lambda switching is what I’ve called spatial switching that is = lambda1 portA à lambda1 portB what is not clear to me is how can be = advertised an OEO transponder that can only perform frequency switching = lambda1 à lambda 2.

Adrian? Deb? Anyone = else?

Diego

-----Original Message-----
From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@ora= nge-ftgroup.com]
Sent: mercoled=EC 4 luglio 2007 18.47
To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with = Transponder

Hi Diego.

I believe we should refer to the Holly RFC 3945, chapter 1, verse = 2:

- "Lambda Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at = the level of an *individual wavelength*" [or a "group of = wavelengths"], meaning that you manipulate values of wavelengths = (as AU-4 numbers [or AU-4 ranges] from an SDH portA to SDH portB), like = in a ROADM;

- "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at = the level of a single or multiple *fibers*", meaning *spatial = switching* where you don't consider the type of signal that ports convey = (could be anything like a black and white signal, a wavelength, a WDM = multiplex, some optical packets...), like in a OOO = PXC.

To stick with strict terminolgy: lambda =3D wavelength =3D = (speedOfLight / frequency)

So if you need to do "frequency switching", then it is = the so called "lambda switching". :-)

Anyway, this is my understanding, so if I'm wrong or if it's a = vocabulary issue because you find that terms are inappropriate, then = we'd better ask father Adrian and sister Deborah.

Cheers,

Julien

-----Original Message-----

From: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) [mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsso= n.com]

Hi Julien,

Actually not = the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a single lambda I didn't but the = mux/demux In the picture sorry.

The point I failed to illustrate is the ambiguity of the term = "Lambda Switch Capable" given that there two possible ways to = switch a lambda.

The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda1 = portB) this is the way an all optical switch works and this why there is = the lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks. =

The second one is the frequency switching: (Lambda1 portA) --> = (Lambda2 portA) this switching can be done via a transponder (OEO) = device.

Of course is possible to mix the two switching having (Lambda1 = portA) --> (Lambda2 portB)

My impression is that the definition "Lambda Switch = Capable" refers to the spatial switching and thus I don't know how = to model the fact that after/before a photonic matrix I have a = transponder.

I hope I've made my question clearer.

Best Regards

Diego

-----Original Message-----

From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@ora= nge-ftgroup.com]

Sent: marted=EC 3 luglio 2007 19.21

To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org

Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with = Transponder

Hi Diego.

If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself = is a PXC that

has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you = add

lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you = or

anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card = or in

a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to = work

on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port = B)]. As a

result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which = is

"Lambda Switch Capable".

If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your = "lambda

swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels = aren't

wavelengths but ports.

But maybe I didn't get your actual issue.

My 2 cents,

Julien

________________________________

From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org<= /A>] On

Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)

Hi all,

I've a doubt about = how to model the following situation.

= +-----------------+

= | = |-------+

= | = | OEO |

| = Lambda |-------+

| = Switch |

= | = |

= +-----------------+

The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while = the

interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the = lambda

frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching = capability'

the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) = -->

(lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the = OEO

transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I = have to

advertise?

Diego

Diego Caviglia

Product Line ON BBN

PA Broadband BNET

Marconi S.p.A

Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy

Via Anagnina,203

0018, Roma , Italy

www.ericsson.com <http://www.ericsson.com/> =

Office: +39 010 600 3736

Fax: +39 010 600 3493

Mobile: +39 335 7181762

Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com

This communication is confidential and intended solely for = the

addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or = distribution

is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you = in

error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission = and

delete the message without disclosing it. Thank = you.

E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data = corruption,

interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we = only

send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any = such

corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or = any

consequences thereof.

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Thu, 05 Jul 2007 11:55:27 -0400 Received: from [203.177.214.36] (helo=pc42) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6Tfv-0005im-4i; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 11:55:27 -0400 From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?Z2FzdGl0eW91ckB5YWhvby5jby5qcA==?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?WxskQj9NOkpGQz04NGsyaBsoQl0bJEIlYSE8JWtMNUApOEIkRyUiJUAlayVIJEo9UDJxJCQkckRzNiFDZiEqGyhC?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:29:19 +0900 Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 $BAG?M:J$N4E$$Fw$$!*(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B(.(,(,(/(B $B(-2a7c(-!ZFb=o$NHkL)$r(-%"(-%I(-!!!!!!("!!!!!!"#(B $B!!!!!!("!!(1(,(.(,(2!D(2(,(.(,(/!!(B $B""""(B $B!!!!!!("!!!!!!(-B((-%"(-%](-7O(-!!(B $B"""""#(B $B!!!!!!(&(!(!(!(1(,(0(,(1(,(0!D(0!!(B $B""""""(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(B $B""""""(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!""!!"#"#"""#(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(B $B""""!!"#"""""#""""""""""""(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(B $B"#""!!!!!!"""""""""#"""""#(B $B!!!!!!!!!!(B $B""!!""""!!"""#!!"""#""""!!"#(B $B!!!!!!!!!!(B $B"#!!"""#!!"#""(B $B"("#$NCO0h$N?M:J$H$N=P2q$$3NN)$O$+$J$j9b3NN($G$9$h(B(*$B!-"O!.(B*) $B$7$+$b$[$H$s$I$,B(%"%]$H$N$&$l$7$$JV;v$N%a!<%k$"$j!*!"!"!"!J!1(B $B!1(B;$B!K(B $B"'!!;0==O):J$N0|$i$JE:$$?2$r7P83$7$?$$$J$i!*%3%3!!"'(B $B!!"*!!"*!!"*!!(B http://qt-h.cc/r30/m.php $B!z(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,!z(B $B?M:J$KBg?M5$!*$9$0$K2q$($A$c$&$=$NHk7m$O!)!)(B $B-!7G<(HD!"%a!<%k$GBT$A9g$o$;$r$9$k!*!!!ZL5NA!["c%a!<%kL5@)8B!*8r49<+M3"d(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!"'(B $B-%C/$G$b4JC1$K$"$s$J;v(B!?$B$G$-$k!*!Z%G!<%HBe!["c%f!<%6!$dIb5$9%$-$J=w$N;R$,$$$C$Q$$$$$k%5%$%H"""#(B $B(.(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(3(,(/(B $B(-2F(-K~(-3+(-!*(-!z(-40(-A4(-L5(-NA(-$G(-!z(-%;(-%U(-%l(-C5(-$7(-!z(-(B $B(1(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(5(,(0(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2(B $B(#(!(!(!(!(!($!!!?(B $B("(B| $B!1!7!1(B |$B!C(B $B("(B $B?M:J7O$O!!(B http://qt-h.cc/r30/m.php $B("(B| (^$B!~(B') |$B!C(B $B("(B|$B!2(B($B%K(B)o_|$B!C(B $B!C(B $B#O#L7O$O!!(B http://qt-h.cc/r30/m.php $B(&(((!(!(!(((%(B $B("(B $B!!!1!1!1!1!1!!(B $B("(B10$BBe$N;R$,$$$$(B http://qt-h.cc/r30/m.php $B!!40A4L5NA$G!!(B $B("(B $B!!(B $B2q$($k!!!*(B $B("$46a=j$G2q$$$?$$(B http://qt-h.cc/r30/m.php $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2!2(B $B!!!D!D1|MMC5$78BDj$O!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D!D(B $B"!!~"!!!EPO?%\%?%s(B1$B$D$G40A4L5NA$GM7$Y$^$9!*"!!~"!(B $B!!!!(.(,(,(,(,(,(/!!!!!!"#1|MM$NBN$N2P>H$j$O!*C6Fa$G$O>C$;$J$$!*(B $B(.(/(-(.(,(,(,(/(-(.(/!!"#%H%m%H%m$KMO$1$k1|MM$r5.J}$K$*FO$1!*(B $B(-(-(-(-(B $B#P#C(B $B(-(-(-(-!!"#8r>D(B http://qt-h.cc/r30/m.php $B(-(-(-(1(,(,(,(0(-(-(-(B $B(5(5(1(3(,(,(,(3(0(5(5(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B!!!!!!!!!z!!!!!!!!!z!!!!!!!!!z!!!!!!!!!z!!!!!!!!!z!!!!!!!!!z(B $B(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 05 13:01:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6UhU-0004NL-Kk for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 13:01:04 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6Ugh-0003Yv-TP for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 13:01:04 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6UMZ-000DiY-Od for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:39:27 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [66.226.64.2] (helo=pro.abac.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6UMM-000DhZ-E2 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:39:20 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-42.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by pro.abac.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l65Gd7j1064738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Jul 2007 09:39:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gregb@grotto-networking.com) Message-ID: <468D1EAD.606@grotto-networking.com> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:39:09 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder References: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BD139@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BD139@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040306020202000908070009" Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 872695ea777a517bf5717e5acc69f8be This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040306020202000908070009 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Diego, looks like we've been thinking about similar issues lately. First, I want to nail down the interfaces on your lambda switch below. Are they: (a) WDM interfaces, i.e., with multiple lambda's coming in and out. (b) single wavelength interfaces (c) a combination of the two, e.g., like in a ADM (or ROADM) where we have line side (WDM) and drop side single wavelength. On terminology instead of "frequency switching" can we call it by its more typical name "wavelength conversion" to avoid confusion with "lambda switching" (since lambda's and frequencies have a 1-1 correspondence and both are used to describe optical signals in ITU-T recommendations). Given where the OEO is located I'd say that particular interface is a single wavelength. Regards Greg B. Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. > > > > > > > > +-----------------+ > > | |-------+ > > | | OEO | > > | Lambda |-------+ > > | Switch | > > | | > > | | > > +-----------------+ > > > > > > The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the > interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda > frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching > capability' the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, > port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by > the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I > have to advertise? > > > > BR > > > Diego > > > > **Diego Caviglia** > > Product Line ON BBN > > PA Broadband BNET > > > > **Marconi S.p.A** > > Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy > > Via Anagnina,203 > > 0018, Roma , Italy > > www.ericsson.com > > > > Office: +39 010 600 3736 > > Fax: +39 010 600 3493 > > Mobile: +39 335 7181762 > > Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com > > This communication is confidential and intended solely for the > addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution > is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in > error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and > delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. > > E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, > interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we > only send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for > any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or > any consequences thereof. > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------040306020202000908070009 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Diego, looks like we've been thinking about similar issues lately.
First, I want to nail down the interfaces on your lambda switch below.
Are they:
(a) WDM interfaces, i.e., with multiple lambda's coming in and out.
(b) single wavelength interfaces
(c) a combination of the two, e.g., like in a ADM (or ROADM) where we have line side (WDM) and drop side single wavelength.

On terminology instead of "frequency switching" can we call it by its more typical name "wavelength conversion" to avoid confusion with "lambda switching" (since lambda's and frequencies have a 1-1 correspondence and both are used to describe optical signals in ITU-T recommendations).

Given where the OEO is located I'd say that particular interface is a single wavelength.

Regards

Greg B.

Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote:

Hi all,

         I’ve a doubt about how to model the following situation.

      +-----------------+

      |                 |-------+

      |                 | OEO   |

      |     Lambda      |-------+

      |     Switch      |

      |                 |

      |                 |

      +-----------------+



The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda frequency. In this case there are two different ‘switching capability’ the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to advertise?

BR

Diego

Diego Caviglia

Product Line ON BBN

PA Broadband BNET

Marconi S.p.A

Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy

Via Anagnina,203

0018, Roma , Italy

www.ericsson.com

Office: +39 010 600 3736

Fax: +39 010 600 3493

Mobile: +39 335 7181762

Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com

This communication is confidential and intended solely for the addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you.

E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any consequences thereof.

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

--------------040306020202000908070009-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 05 13:01:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6Ui5-0004Zk-Nk for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 13:01:41 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6UhF-0003iY-I4 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 13:01:41 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6UMp-000DjN-5D for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:39:43 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [171.71.176.71] (helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6UMc-000Dic-Bp for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:39:36 +0000 Received: from sj-dkim-3.cisco.com ([171.71.179.195]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Jul 2007 09:39:29 -0700 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAM66jEarR7PDh2dsb2JhbACCY4xKAQEBCA4s X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,504,1175497200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="383781611:sNHT67974268" Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-3.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l65GdTNk015629; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 09:39:29 -0700 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l65Gcgkw015202; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 16:39:21 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-203.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.20]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:39:06 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7BF23.0096A019" Subject: Follow-up on comments on draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:39:04 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Follow-up on comments on draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt Thread-Index: Ace/Iv/wATkVETcSTT+CAQmeajDxfg== From: "Zafar Ali $zali$" To: "Lou Berger" , "Igor Bryskin" , Cc: "Adrian Farrel" , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , "Hassan Sheikh $hassans$" , "Tomohiro Otani" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jul 2007 16:39:06.0199 (UTC) FILETIME=[00D3CE70:01C7BF23] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=14939; t=1183653569; x=1184517569; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=zali@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Zafar=20Ali=20$zali$=22=20 |Subject:=20Follow-up=20on=20comments=20on=20draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-con trolled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt |Sender:=20; bh=BxmDQ3+vYlbl2VFX4N1ixDI5PWN/D7LwvfooVtXU9OE=; b=lP4N0PongHWw9/aEFxNAnbJLTVfTdO9ZJgNiDIjb7O+zfRsk2ALlvMh83RxhfZHcCtwV1T6Q URa9iK2lRGuBmSGXhzu8ksrb+vVWrYQbTyXOizcnYU3TT+kooP0SXoHI; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-3; header.From=zali@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 913ee11e7c554f7d4da75d500826397e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BF23.0096A019 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Lou, Igor, ccamper, et al,=20 =20 Here is a follow-up on our AI from last WG meeting on the comments received on draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt. We are planning to revise the document based on your feedback. Please advise if you have any further comment/ suggestion.=20 =20 The issue is focused around the use of the GMPLS tunnel as a point-to-point link using Ethernet TE links. Unlike pos links where a L2 adjacency resolution is not required, the Ethernet links require that the ARP be resolved (aka Layer 2 MAC address) before any forwarding works on this link. It is not a case of broken implementation. We (router vendors) cannot work around ARP. What we need to do is to provide clear direction or recommendation for vendors on how to ARP for GMPLS controlled Ethernet interfaces. Or else, all vendors will implement whatever ARP mechanism works for them in terms of forwarding. E.g., there is an interop issue between Juniper and Cisco (from a fwding perspective) when Ethernet links are used (Both do ARP). We had to find workarounds to make things work (at ISO Core and in private testing). The same will be the case between Cisco, Juniper and other vendors.=20 =20 The solution we are pushing for is that we need a mechanism that allows us to resolve ARP directly for the GMPLS tunnel ip addresses. This removes any dependency on the underlying Ethernet links or the addressing scheme that is used for TE links i.e. numbered links in the same or different subnets. =20 In the following, we describe the situation with numbered Ethernet links and Unnumbered Ethernet links (the assumption is that the GMPLS tunnel is a ipv4 numbered link in both instances). =20 Consider the scenario=20 =20 <----------------------------------------------GMPLS Tunnel------------------------------------------> =20 RTR1 <------GE data link/TE link -----> OXC <------ GE data link/TE link -----> RTR2 segment # 1 segment # 2 There are two instance to consider: =20 (a) When numbered TE links are used but segment # 1 and segment # 2 are in different subnets (valid scenario) In this situation we really have no way of resolving ARP using the addresses of the underlying TE link Ethernet links w/o using static ARP entries. The issue is that the subnets are different so the ARP request received by RTR2 from RTR1 will be rejected as it is not known to RTR2 and vice versa. Instead, if the ARP request if for the GMPLS tunnel instead then there should be no problem as the GMPLS tunnel is p-p link with IPV4 addresses in the same subnet. Verdict: If we have the ARP resolution mechanism tied in to the GMPLS tunnel interfaces addresses then there is no issue or dependency=20 =20 (a) When numbered TE links are used and segment # 1 and segment # 2 are in the same subnet.=20 In this setup the GMPLS Tunnel can inherit and use the ethernet link address for ARP resolution and there is no issue as both segments are in the same subnet. The problem in this situation is that we need to resolve the ARP for the ipv4 addresses for the GMPLS tunnel (considered as a p-p link) as opposed to inherit it from the underlying Ethernet TE links. Verdict: In this situation the ARP resolution mechanism should be developed for the GMPLS tunnel address. =20 (c) The third scenario is when the GMPLS tunnel is numbered but the TE links are Unnumbered. In this case we are again faced with the same issue of L2 ARP adjacency resolution between RTR1 and RTR2. RTR2 will reject the ARP request for RTR1 when it does not find the Unnumbered address (used by RTR1) in its FWDing database. This issue would not be encountered if we were resolving the ARP on GMPLS tunnel address. Verdict: ARP resolution mechanism is required for GMPLS tunnel. =20 (d) We also need to make sure that when the tunnel-id is unnum, vendor implementation honor ARP request using loopback addresses. We have also faced interop issue in this scenario.=20 =20 Thanks =20 Regards... Hassan and Zafar=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BF23.0096A019 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Lou, Igor,=20 ccamper, et al,

Here = is a follow-up=20 on our AI from last WG meeting on the comments received on=20 draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt. We are = planning to=20 revise the document based on your feedback. Please advise if you have = any=20 further comment/ suggestion.

The issue is focused around the use of the = GMPLS=20 tunnel as a point-to-point link using Ethernet TE links. Unlike pos = links=20 where a L2 adjacency resolution is not required, the Ethernet links = require that=20 the ARP be resolved (aka Layer 2 MAC address) before any forwarding = works on=20 this link. It is not a case of broken implementation. We (router vendors) cannot work around ARP. = What we=20 need to do is to provide clear direction or recommendation = for=20 vendors on how to ARP for GMPLS = controlled=20 Ethernet interfaces. Or = else,=20 all vendors will implement whatever ARP mechanism works for them in terms of = forwarding. E.g., there=20 is an interop issue between Juniper and Cisco (from = a fwding=20 perspective) when Ethernet links = are used=20 (Both do ARP). We had to find workarounds to make things work (at ISO Core and in private testing). = The same=20 will be the case between Cisco, Juniper and other vendors. =

The solution we are pushing for is that we = need a=20 mechanism that allows us to resolve ARP directly for the GMPLS tunnel ip = addresses. This removes any dependency on the underlying Ethernet links = or the=20 addressing scheme that is used for TE links i.e. numbered links in the = same or=20 different subnets.

In the following, we describe the = situation=20 with numbered Ethernet links and Unnumbered Ethernet links (the = assumption=20 is that the GMPLS tunnel is a ipv4 numbered link in both instances).

Consider the=20 scenario

<------------------------------------------= ----GMPLS=20 Tunnel------------------------------------------>

RTR1 = <------GE=20 data link/TE link -----> OXC <------ GE data link/TE link = ----->=20 RTR2

&nbs= p; segment=20 #=20 1 = &= nbsp; =20 segment # 2

There = are two=20 instance to = consider:

(a) When numbered TE links are used but = segment #=20 1 and segment # 2 are in different subnets (valid = scenario)

In this situation we = really=20 have no way of resolving ARP using the addresses of the underlying TE = link=20 Ethernet links w/o using static ARP entries. The issue is that the subnets are different so the ARP = request=20 received by RTR2 from RTR1 will be rejected as it is not known to RTR2 = and vice=20 versa. Instead, if the ARP request if for the GMPLS tunnel instead then = there=20 should be no problem as the GMPLS tunnel is p-p link with IPV4 addresses = in the=20 same subnet.

Verdict: If we have the ARP resolution = mechanism tied in=20 to the GMPLS tunnel interfaces addresses then there is no issue or=20 dependency

(a) When numbered TE links are used and segment # 1 and segment # 2 = are in=20 the same subnet.

In this setup the = GMPLS Tunnel=20 can inherit and use the ethernet link=20 address for ARP resolution and there is no issue as both segments are in = the=20 same subnet. The problem in this situation is that = we need to=20 resolve the ARP for the = ipv4=20 addresses for the GMPLS tunnel (considered as a p-p link) as opposed to = inherit=20 it from the underlying Ethernet TE=20 links.

Verdict: In=20 this situation the ARP resolution mechanism should be developed for the = GMPLS=20 tunnel address.

In this case we are = again=20 faced with the same issue of L2 ARP adjacency resolution between RTR1 = and RTR2.=20 RTR2 will reject the ARP request for RTR1 when = it does not find the = Unnumbered=20 address (used by RTR1) in its FWDing database. This issue would not be=20 encountered if we were resolving the ARP on GMPLS tunnel = address.

Verdict: ARP resolution mechanism is required = for GMPLS=20 tunnel.

(d) We also need to make sure that when the = tunnel-id=20 is unnum, vendor implementation honor ARP request using loopback = addresses. We=20 have also faced interop issue in this scenario.=20

Thanks

Regards... Hassan and Zafar=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BF23.0096A019-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 05 13:03:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6Ujb-0008CJ-Fs for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 13:03:15 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6Uj0-00046z-BC for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 13:03:15 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6Uat-000F7n-Tc for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:54:15 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [66.226.64.2] (helo=pro.abac.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6UVQ-000EYf-K1 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:53:50 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-42.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by pro.abac.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l65GmRgo072392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Jul 2007 09:48:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gregb@grotto-networking.com) Message-ID: <468D20DE.1010608@grotto-networking.com> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:48:30 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" CC: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder References: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BD9E6@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BD9E6@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030503060300070107070602" Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2d53b06eede2bb6b618e318c7466f38f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030503060300070107070602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Diego, looking at MPLS and GMPLS particularly applied to SONET/SDH/G.709 we see that most switches are assumed to be able to convert any ingress label to any egress label (within say some range). In the case of lambda switching without wavelength converters (your O-E-O transponder) we do not have this capability (labels map to lambdas). Hence this could also be interpreted as an additional constraint on the switch. I don't think we currently have a way to represent this in our routing protocols. Please take a look at the draft http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-00.txt that Young Lee and I put together. It seems to us that some extensions to GMPLS maybe necessary to address your application. If I interpret it correctly ;-) Regards Greg B. Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote: > > Hi Julien, > > Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the lambda switching is > what I've called spatial switching that is lambda1 portA à lambda1 > portB what is not clear to me is how can be advertised an OEO > transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 à lambda 2. > > Adrian? Deb? Anyone else? > > BR > > Diego > > -----Original Message----- > From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com] > Sent: mercoledì 4 luglio 2007 18.47 > To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder > > Hi Diego. > > I believe we should refer to the Holly RFC 3945, chapter 1, verse 2: > > - "Lambda Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of an > *individual wavelength*" [or a "group of wavelengths"], meaning that > you manipulate values of wavelengths (as AU-4 numbers [or AU-4 ranges] > from an SDH portA to SDH portB), like in a ROADM; > > - "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of a > single or multiple *fibers*", meaning *spatial switching* where you > don't consider the type of signal that ports convey (could be anything > like a black and white signal, a wavelength, a WDM multiplex, some > optical packets...), like in a OOO PXC. > > To stick with strict terminolgy: lambda = wavelength = (speedOfLight / > frequency) > > So if you need to do "frequency switching", then it is the so called > "lambda switching". :-) > > Anyway, this is my understanding, so if I'm wrong or if it's a > vocabulary issue because you find that terms are inappropriate, then > we'd better ask father Adrian and sister Deborah. > > Cheers, > > Julien > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) [mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com] > > Hi Julien, > > Actually not the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a > single lambda I didn't but the mux/demux In the picture sorry. > > The point I failed to illustrate is the ambiguity of the term "Lambda > Switch Capable" given that there two possible ways to switch a lambda. > > The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda1 portB) > this is the way an all optical switch works and this why there is the > lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks. > > The second one is the frequency switching: (Lambda1 portA) --> > (Lambda2 portA) this switching can be done via a transponder (OEO) > device. > > Of course is possible to mix the two switching having (Lambda1 portA) > --> (Lambda2 portB) > > My impression is that the definition "Lambda Switch Capable" refers to > the spatial switching and thus I don't know how to model the fact that > after/before a photonic matrix I have a transponder. > > I hope I've made my question clearer. > > Best Regards > > Diego > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com] > > Sent: martedì 3 luglio 2007 19.21 > > To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder > > Hi Diego. > > If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself is a PXC that > > has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you add > > lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you or > > anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card or in > > a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to work > > on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port B)]. As a > > result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which is > > "Lambda Switch Capable". > > If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your "lambda > > swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels aren't > > wavelengths but ports. > > But maybe I didn't get your actual issue. > > My 2 cents, > > Julien > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On > > Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) > > Hi all, > > I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. > > > > > > > > +-----------------+ > > | |-------+ > > | | OEO | > > | Lambda |-------+ > > | Switch | > > | | > > | | > > +-----------------+ > > > > > > The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the > > interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda > > frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability' > > the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> > > (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO > > transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to > > advertise? > > > > BR > > > Diego > > > > Diego Caviglia > > Product Line ON BBN > > PA Broadband BNET > > > > Marconi S.p.A > > Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy > > Via Anagnina,203 > > 0018, Roma , Italy > > www.ericsson.com > > > > Office: +39 010 600 3736 > > Fax: +39 010 600 3493 > > Mobile: +39 335 7181762 > > Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com > > This communication is confidential and intended solely for the > > addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution > > is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in > > error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and > > delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. > > E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, > > interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only > > send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such > > corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any > > consequences thereof. > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------030503060300070107070602 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Diego, looking at MPLS and GMPLS particularly applied to SONET/SDH/G.709 we see that most switches are assumed to be able to convert any ingress label to any egress label (within say some range). In the case of lambda switching without wavelength converters (your O-E-O transponder) we do not have this capability (labels map to lambdas). Hence this could also be interpreted as an additional constraint on the switch. I don't think we currently have a way to represent this in our routing protocols. Please take a look at the draft http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-00.txt that Young Lee and I put together. It seems to us that some extensions to GMPLS maybe necessary to address your application. If I interpret it correctly ;-)

Regards

Greg B.

Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote:

RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder

Hi Julien,

          Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the lambda switching is what I’ve called spatial switching that is lambda1 portA à lambda1 portB what is not clear to me is how can be advertised an OEO transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 à lambda 2.

Adrian? Deb? Anyone else?

BR

Diego

-----Original Message-----
From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com]
Sent: mercoledì 4 luglio 2007 18.47
To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder

Hi Diego.

I believe we should refer to the Holly RFC 3945, chapter 1, verse 2:

- "Lambda Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of an *individual wavelength*" [or a "group of wavelengths"], meaning that you manipulate values of wavelengths (as AU-4 numbers [or AU-4 ranges] from an SDH portA to SDH portB), like in a ROADM;

- "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of a single or multiple *fibers*", meaning *spatial switching* where you don't consider the type of signal that ports convey (could be anything like a black and white signal, a wavelength, a WDM multiplex, some optical packets...), like in a OOO PXC.

To stick with strict terminolgy: lambda = wavelength = (speedOfLight / frequency)

So if you need to do "frequency switching", then it is the so called "lambda switching". :-)

Anyway, this is my understanding, so if I'm wrong or if it's a vocabulary issue because you find that terms are inappropriate, then we'd better ask father Adrian and sister Deborah.

Cheers,

Julien

-----Original Message-----

From: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) [mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com]

Hi Julien,

          Actually not the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a single lambda I didn't but the mux/demux In the picture sorry.

The point I failed to illustrate is the ambiguity of the term "Lambda Switch Capable" given that there two possible ways to switch a lambda.

The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda1 portB) this is the way an all optical switch works and this why there is the lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks.

The second one is the frequency switching: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 portA) this switching can be done via a transponder (OEO) device.

Of course is possible to mix the two switching having (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 portB)

My impression is that the definition "Lambda Switch Capable" refers to the spatial switching and thus I don't know how to model the fact that after/before a photonic matrix I have a transponder.

I hope I've made my question clearer.

Best Regards

Diego

-----Original Message-----

From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com]

Sent: martedì 3 luglio 2007 19.21

To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org

Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder

Hi Diego.

If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself is a PXC that

has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you add

lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you or

anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card or in

a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to work

on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port B)]. As a

result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which is

"Lambda Switch Capable".

If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your "lambda

swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels aren't

wavelengths but ports.

But maybe I didn't get your actual issue.

My 2 cents,

Julien

________________________________

From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On

Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)

Hi all,

         I've a doubt about how to model the following situation.

      +-----------------+

      |                 |-------+

      |                 | OEO   |

      |     Lambda      |-------+

      |     Switch      |

      |                 |

      |                 |

      +-----------------+



The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the

interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda

frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability'

the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) -->

(lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO

transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to

advertise?

BR

Diego

Diego Caviglia

Product Line ON BBN

PA Broadband BNET

Marconi S.p.A

Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy

Via Anagnina,203

0018, Roma , Italy

www.ericsson.com <http://www.ericsson.com/>

Office: +39 010 600 3736

Fax: +39 010 600 3493

Mobile: +39 335 7181762

Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com

This communication is confidential and intended solely for the

addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution

is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in

error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and

delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you.

E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption,

interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only

send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such

corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any

consequences thereof.

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

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MDAwMDAwODMwNyAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDA4MzI4IDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMDgzNzkgMDAwMDAg biAKMDAwMDAxNDk4MyAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDE1MDA0IDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMTU4MjcgMDAw MDAgbiAKdHJhaWxlcgo8PAovU2l6ZSAxNgovSW5mbyAxIDAgUgovUm9vdCAyIDAgUgo+PgpzdGFy dHhyZWYKMTU4NDcKJSVFT0YK --------------010400020804020004060100-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 05 18:24:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6ZkQ-0004PH-QY for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:24:26 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6ZkQ-0007nX-G5 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:24:26 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6Zbv-000070-L4 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:15:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO, MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.8 Received: from [156.154.24.138] (helo=ns3.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6ZbN-00003H-QC for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:15:19 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4013175EF; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 22:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1I6ZbK-0006Gp-7t; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:15:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt Message-Id: Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:15:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b5d20af10c334b36874c0264b10f59f1 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS Networks Author(s) : K. Kumaki Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2007-7-5 Operation of an Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) traffic engineering (TE) network as a client network to a Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) network has enhanced operational capabilities compared to those provided by a co-existent protocol model (ships in the night). The GMPLS network may be a packet or a non-packet network, and may itself be a multi-layer network supporting both packet and non-packet technologies. A MPLS-TE Label Switched Path (LSP) originates and terminates on an MPLS Label Switching Router (LSR). The GMPLS network provides transp This document describes a framework and Service Provider requirements for operating MPLS-TE networks over GMPLS networks. arent transport for the end-to-end MPLS-TE LSP. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-5170002.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-5170002.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From willpowersystem.com@olympiccarhire.com Thu Jul 05 20:20:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6bYT-0003Hb-EF for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:20:13 -0400 Received: from host86-136-204-183.range86-136.btcentralplus.com ([86.136.204.183] helo=squqabb) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6bYS-0007jg-Tc for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:20:13 -0400 Message-ID: <000401c7bf63$22cee380$0100007f@ymucva> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:19:10 +0100 From: "Nicholas Peterson" To: Subject: Corel Draw Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 OEM software means no CD/DVD, no packing case, no booklets and no overhead cost! So OEM is synonym for lowest price. Buy directly from the manufacturer, pay for software ONLY and save 75-90%! Check discounts and special offers! Find software for home and office! 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Yes, I What? she whispered. Im never She pushed against his chest. Because I failed to protect yo No, you didnt fail me. You did From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 05 21:13:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6cOJ-0007wL-I7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:13:47 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6cOJ-0005jy-9A for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:13:47 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6cH9-000HRE-Dl for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:06:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [62.128.193.153] (helo=mta3.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6cGe-000HHy-KM for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:06:02 +0000 Received: from mta3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mta3.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l65MMfeX023895 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 23:22:41 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by mta3.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l65MMe0l023850 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 23:22:41 +0100 Message-ID: <015b01c7bf52$ff29c720$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Liaison situation Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 23:22:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Hi, I have been a bit lax about following up with liaisons. The CCAMP correspondence page at www.olddog.co.uk/ccamp.htm has been updated to show all of the recent incoming and outgoing correspondence. We send a bunch of responses to the ITU-T in April and May, and these have generated some responses that need our attention. In addition, we have a couple of response that we need to generate that we have started on, but need to complete. We need to send responses on - VCAT/LCAS https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file418.doc Greg drafted some text. We need to polish it and send it. - Multi-layer networking https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file432.doc Specific questions we should address before WG last call - ASON routing loop prevention https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file448.doc More discussion about the OSPF solution - GMPLS Calls https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file450.doc A couple of points to consider when we apply this work to ASON - OTN-T work plan https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file451.doc For out comments We should also send a liaison to update on the progress of OSPF ASON routing. Any help would be welcomed. Adrian From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 05 21:19:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6cTi-0001Wh-SP for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:19:22 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6cTi-0006hZ-Jb for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:19:22 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6cMY-000ISN-41 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:11:58 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [133.243.3.2] (helo=ns2.nict.go.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6cMM-000IPO-6c for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:11:52 +0000 Received: from gw1.nict.go.jp (gw1 [133.243.18.250]) by ns2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id l661BjFj005246 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:11:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from gw1.nict.go.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gw1.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id l661Biip010285 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:11:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail1.nict.go.jp (mail.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.3]) by gw1.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id l661BhP0010268 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:11:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail1.nict.go.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.nict.go.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D8244239 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:11:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (skigoggle.nict.go.jp [133.243.146.51]) by mail1.nict.go.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A86544249 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:11:39 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 10:10:16 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20070706.101016.-1739014091.harai@nict.go.jp> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: new draft about signaling for a bidirectionl lightpath From: Hiroaki Harai X-Mailer: Mew version 4.1 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Hi everyone, We posted a new draft about GMPLS signaling for a bidirectional lightpath setup as follows. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-rsvpte-bidir-wave-00.txt ====== Title : Extensions to GMPLS RSVP-TE for Bidirectional Lightpath with the Same Wavelength Authors : S. Xu, H. Harai, and D. King Filename: draft-xu-rsvpte-bidir-wave-00.txt Abstract: For bidirectional lightpaths provisioning, in the case of optical nodes that do not support wavelength conversion, it would be necessary to use the same wavelength along the route on each direction. In certain optical network scenarios, the use of the same wavelength on both directions would be advantageous. For instance, some type of ROADMs may add/drop the same wavelength simultaneously. In another case, the users' optical end nodes are equipped with fixed-wavelength transponders. This document describes extensions to RSVP-TE signaling for bidirectional wavelength lightpaths that require the same wavelength on both directions. By using an LSP_ATTRIBUTES object defined in [RFC4420], the extensions enable the new type lightpaths to support the low cost configuration at users' optical end nodes. ====== We believe that selecting a single wavelength on both directions for a bidirectional LSP is very real. And our suggestion in this draft is a simple one. We appreciate your comments and feedbacks. With best regards, Hiroaki ------- Hiroaki Harai, Ph.D. (http://nag.nict.go.jp/) Network Architecture Group, New Generation Network Research Center National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT), JAPAN. 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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 06 03:24:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6iB8-0007WC-I0 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 03:24:34 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6iB2-0000hh-Tq for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 03:24:34 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6i2N-00067h-L8 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 07:15:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [193.180.251.62] (helo=mailgw4.ericsson.se) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6i26-00065g-IO for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 07:15:23 +0000 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id D291621625; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:14:57 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-af833bb0000007e1-0d-468debf1ca86 Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.121]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 6F85A2164F; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:14:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.78]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:14:57 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7BF9D.5B807536" Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:14:55 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BDE1B@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <468D20DE.1010608@grotto-networking.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Thread-Index: Ace/JFVnzUcKpKvJSCCBEsSc5rvhNwAePMWw From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" To: "Greg Bernstein" Cc: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2007 07:14:57.0049 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B932890:01C7BF9D] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5f266f4274da5f9c358642fb34e0d4b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BF9D.5B807536 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg, I'll have a look to the ID thanks. =20 Best regards =20 Diego =20 Diego Caviglia From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]=20 Sent: gioved=EC 5 luglio 2007 18.49 To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) Cc: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN; ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder =20 Hi Diego, looking at MPLS and GMPLS particularly applied to = SONET/SDH/G.709 we see that most switches are assumed to be able to = convert any ingress label to any egress label (within say some range). = In the case of lambda switching without wavelength converters (your = O-E-O transponder) we do not have this capability (labels map to = lambdas). Hence this could also be interpreted as an additional = constraint on the switch. I don't think we currently have a way to = represent this in our routing protocols. Please take a look at the = draft = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-swit= ched-00.txt that Young Lee and I put together. It seems to us that = some extensions to GMPLS maybe necessary to address your application. = If I interpret it correctly ;-)=20 Regards Greg B. Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote:=20 =20 Hi Julien, Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the lambda switching is = what I've called spatial switching that is lambda1 portA --> lambda1 = portB what is not clear to me is how can be advertised an OEO = transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 --> lambda = 2. Adrian? Deb? Anyone else? BR Diego -----Original Message----- From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN = [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com] Sent: mercoled=EC 4 luglio 2007 18.47 To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Hi Diego. I believe we should refer to the Holly RFC 3945, chapter 1, verse 2: - "Lambda Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of an = *individual wavelength*" [or a "group of wavelengths"], meaning that you = manipulate values of wavelengths (as AU-4 numbers [or AU-4 ranges] from = an SDH portA to SDH portB), like in a ROADM; - "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of a = single or multiple *fibers*", meaning *spatial switching* where you = don't consider the type of signal that ports convey (could be anything = like a black and white signal, a wavelength, a WDM multiplex, some = optical packets...), like in a OOO PXC. To stick with strict terminolgy: lambda =3D wavelength =3D (speedOfLight = / frequency) So if you need to do "frequency switching", then it is the so called = "lambda switching". :-) Anyway, this is my understanding, so if I'm wrong or if it's a = vocabulary issue because you find that terms are inappropriate, then = we'd better ask father Adrian and sister Deborah. Cheers, Julien =20 -----Original Message----- From: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) [mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com]=20 Hi Julien, Actually not the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a single = lambda I didn't but the mux/demux In the picture sorry. The point I failed to illustrate is the ambiguity of the term "Lambda = Switch Capable" given that there two possible ways to switch a lambda. =20 The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda1 portB) = this is the way an all optical switch works and this why there is the = lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks. =20 The second one is the frequency switching: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 = portA) this switching can be done via a transponder (OEO) device. =20 Of course is possible to mix the two switching having (Lambda1 portA) = --> (Lambda2 portB) My impression is that the definition "Lambda Switch Capable" refers to = the spatial switching and thus I don't know how to model the fact that = after/before a photonic matrix I have a transponder. =20 I hope I've made my question clearer. Best Regards Diego -----Original Message----- From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN = [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com]=20 Sent: marted=EC 3 luglio 2007 19.21 To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Hi Diego. If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself is a PXC that has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you add lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you or anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card or in a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to work on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port B)]. As a result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which is "Lambda Switch Capable". If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your "lambda swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels aren't wavelengths but ports. But maybe I didn't get your actual issue. My 2 cents, Julien ________________________________ From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) Hi all, I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. =20 =20 =20 +-----------------+ | |-------+ | | OEO | | Lambda |-------+ | Switch | | | | | +-----------------+ =20 =20 The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability' the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to advertise? =20 BR =20 Diego =20 Diego Caviglia Product Line ON BBN PA Broadband BNET =20 Marconi S.p.A Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy Via Anagnina,203 0018, Roma , Italy www.ericsson.com =20 =20 Office: +39 010 600 3736 Fax: +39 010 600 3493 Mobile: +39 335 7181762 Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com =20 This communication is confidential and intended solely for the addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any consequences thereof. =20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BF9D.5B807536 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with = Transponder

Hi = Greg,

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= I’ll have a look to the ID thanks.

Best = regards

Diego

Diego = Caviglia

From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com] =
Sent: gioved=EC 5 luglio = 2007 18.49
To: Diego Caviglia = (GA/ERI)
Cc: MEURIC Julien = RD-CORE-LAN; ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Switching = Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder

Hi Diego, looking at MPLS and GMPLS = particularly applied to SONET/SDH/G.709 we see that most switches are assumed to be = able to convert any ingress label to any egress label (within say some range). In = the case of lambda switching without wavelength converters (your O-E-O = transponder) we do not have this capability (labels map to lambdas). Hence this could = also be interpreted as an additional constraint on the switch. I don't think = we currently have a way to represent this in our routing protocols. = Please take a look at the draft http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-= ccamp-wavelength-switched-00.txt that Young Lee and I put together. It seems to us that some = extensions to GMPLS maybe necessary to address your application. If I interpret = it correctly ;-)

Regards

Greg B.

Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote:

Hi = Julien,

&nbs= p; Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the lambda switching is what = I’ve called spatial switching that is lambda1 portA =E0 = lambda1 portB what is not clear to me is how can be advertised an OEO = transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 =E0 lambda = 2.

Adrian? Deb? Anyone else?

Diego

-----Original Message-----
From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com]
Sent: mercoled=EC 4 luglio 2007 18.47
To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with = Transponder

Hi Diego.

I believe we should refer to the Holly RFC = 3945, chapter 1, verse 2:

- "Lambda Switch Capable" = interfaces "can operate at the level of an *individual wavelength*" [or a "group of wavelengths"], meaning that you manipulate values of wavelengths (as AU-4 numbers [or AU-4 ranges] from an SDH portA to SDH = portB), like in a ROADM;

- "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of a single or multiple *fibers*", = meaning *spatial switching* where you don't consider the type of signal that = ports convey (could be anything like a black and white signal, a wavelength, a = WDM multiplex, some optical packets...), like in a OOO = PXC.

To stick with strict terminolgy: lambda =3D = wavelength =3D (speedOfLight / frequency)

So if you need to do "frequency switching", then it is the so called "lambda switching". = :-)

Anyway, this is my understanding, so if I'm = wrong or if it's a vocabulary issue because you find that terms are = inappropriate, then we'd better ask father Adrian and sister = Deborah.

Cheers,

Julien

-----Original = Message-----

From: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) [mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com]

Hi Julien,

Actually not the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a single lambda I = didn't but the mux/demux In the picture sorry.

The point I failed to illustrate is the = ambiguity of the term "Lambda Switch Capable" given that there two possible = ways to switch a lambda.

The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 = portA) --> (Lambda1 portB) this is the way an all optical switch works and this why = there is the lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks. =

The second one is the frequency switching: = (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 portA) this switching can be done via a = transponder (OEO) device.

Of course is possible to mix the two = switching having (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 = portB)

My impression is that the definition = "Lambda Switch Capable" refers to the spatial switching and thus I don't = know how to model the fact that after/before a photonic matrix I have a transponder.

I hope I've made my question = clearer.

Best Regards

Diego

-----Original = Message-----

From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com]

Sent: marted=EC 3 luglio 2007 = 19.21

To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org

Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic = Links with Transponder

Hi Diego.

If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself is a PXC that

has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you add

lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me = if I'm wrong (you or

anyone else), but whether you do a lambda = conversion inside a card or in

a core matrix, this new interface on your = global device is able to work

on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) = --> (lambda2, port B)]. As a

result, you need to advertise your most = flexible capability, which is

"Lambda Switch = Capable".

If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be = able to control your "lambda

swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists = of fibers and labels aren't

wavelengths but = ports.

But maybe I didn't get your actual = issue.

My 2 cents,

Julien

________________________________

From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On

Behalf Of Diego Caviglia = (GA/ERI)

Hi all,

I've a doubt about how to model the following = situation.

= +-----------------+

| = |-------+

| = | OEO |

| Lambda = |-------+

| Switch = |

| = |

= +-----------------+

The node itself is able to cross connect only = the Lambda while the

interface has a OEO transponder that is able = to change the lambda

frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability'

the spatial one that is performed by the = switch (lambda 1, port A) -->

(lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching = is done by the OEO

transponder. Witch kind of interface = switching capability I have to

advertise?

Diego

Diego Caviglia

Product Line ON = BBN

PA Broadband = BNET

Marconi S.p.A

Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy

Via Anagnina,203

0018, Roma , Italy

www.ericsson.com <http://www.ericsson.com/>

Office: +39 010 600 = 3736

Fax: +39 010 600 = 3493

Mobile: +39 335 7181762

Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com

This communication is confidential and = intended solely for the

addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution

is prohibited. If you believe this message = has been sent to you in

error, please notify the sender by replying = to this transmission and

delete the message without disclosing it. = Thank you.

E-mail including attachments is susceptible = to data corruption,

interception, unauthorized amendment, = tampering and viruses, and we only

send and receive emails on the basis that we = are not liable for any such

corruption, interception, amendment, = tampering or viruses or any

consequences = thereof.

--

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) =
573-2237

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BF9D.5B807536-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 06 03:24:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6iBW-00087j-FS for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 03:24:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6iBS-0003qf-4A for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 03:24:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6i1L-00060D-Gg for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 07:14:27 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [193.180.251.60] (helo=mailgw3.ericsson.se) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6i18-0005zX-6j for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 07:14:21 +0000 Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 4506220C14; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:14:12 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-b067fbb0000007e1-16-468debc42946 Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.123]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 2FFA720BF6; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:14:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.78]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:14:11 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7BF9D.407E465A" Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:14:09 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BDE1A@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <468D1EAD.606@grotto-networking.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Thread-Index: Ace/IwYIhyQQYNhwSquQ5Y8j0o+H8gAeeWiA From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" To: "Greg Bernstein" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2007 07:14:11.0685 (UTC) FILETIME=[40892950:01C7BF9D] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c11d54fae0b5a4f2b2d9ece4929bab8a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BF9D.407E465A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg, Yes the interface is a single lambda and then there should = be a DWDM Line system or could be as you said a RODAM. =20 Great mind have similar thought :-) :-) =20 BR =20 Diego =20 From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]=20 Sent: gioved=EC 5 luglio 2007 18.39 To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder =20 Hi Diego, looks like we've been thinking about similar issues lately. First, I want to nail down the interfaces on your lambda switch below. Are they: (a) WDM interfaces, i.e., with multiple lambda's coming in and out. (b) single wavelength interfaces (c) a combination of the two, e.g., like in a ADM (or ROADM) where we = have line side (WDM) and drop side single wavelength. On terminology instead of "frequency switching" can we call it by its = more typical name "wavelength conversion" to avoid confusion with = "lambda switching" (since lambda's and frequencies have a 1-1 = correspondence and both are used to describe optical signals in ITU-T = recommendations). Given where the OEO is located I'd say that particular interface is a = single wavelength. Regards Greg B. Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote:=20 Hi all, I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. =20 =20 =20 +-----------------+ | |-------+ | | OEO | | Lambda |-------+ | Switch | | | | | +-----------------+ =20 =20 The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the = interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda = frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability' = the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> = (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO = transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to = advertise? =20 BR Diego =20 Diego Caviglia Product Line ON BBN PA Broadband BNET =20 Marconi S.p.A Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy Via Anagnina,203 0018, Roma , Italy www.ericsson.com =20 =20 Office: +39 010 600 3736 Fax: +39 010 600 3493 Mobile: +39 335 7181762 Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com =20 This communication is confidential and intended solely for the = addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution = is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in = error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and = delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, = interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only = send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such = corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any = consequences thereof. =20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BF9D.407E465A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Greg,

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Yes the interface is a single lambda and then there should be a DWDM = Line system or could be as you said a RODAM.

Great mind have similar thought J J

Diego

From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com] =
Sent: gioved=EC 5 luglio = 2007 18.39
To: Diego Caviglia = (GA/ERI)
Cc: = ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Switching = Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder

Hi Diego, looks like we've been thinking = about similar issues lately.
First, I want to nail down the interfaces on your lambda switch = below.
Are they:
(a) WDM interfaces, i.e., with multiple lambda's coming in and out.
(b) single wavelength interfaces
(c) a combination of the two, e.g., like in a ADM (or ROADM) where we = have line side (WDM) and drop side single wavelength.

On terminology instead of "frequency switching" can we call it = by its more typical name "wavelength conversion" to avoid confusion = with "lambda switching" (since lambda's and frequencies have a 1-1 correspondence and both are used to describe optical signals in ITU-T recommendations).

Given where the OEO is located I'd say that particular interface is a = single wavelength.

Regards

Greg B.

Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote:

Hi all,

= ; I’ve a doubt about how to model the following = situation.

+-----------------+

| = |-------+

| = | OEO |

| Lambda = |-------+

| Switch = |

| = |

+-----------------+

The node itself is = able to cross connect only the Lambda while the interface has a OEO transponder = that is able to change the lambda frequency. In this case there are two = different ‘switching capability’ the spatial one that is performed by = the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency = switching is done by the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to = advertise?

Diego

Diego = Caviglia

Product Line ON = BBN

PA Broadband = BNET

Marconi = S.p.A

Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy

Via = Anagnina,203

0018, Roma , = Italy

www.ericsson.com

Office: +39 010 600 = 3736

Fax: +39 010 600 = 3493

Mobile: +39 335 = 7181762

Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com

This = communication is confidential and intended solely for the addressee(s). Any unauthorized = review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you believe this = message has been sent to you in error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and delete the message without disclosing it. Thank = you.

E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, = interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only send and = receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any consequences = thereof.

--

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) =
573-2237

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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 06 08:56:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6nMF-0000Ac-I9 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:56:23 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6nMF-0007bY-83 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:56:23 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6nBG-000HXb-N4 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:45:02 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [216.104.33.66] (helo=esc91.midphase.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6nB1-000HW6-Vb for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:44:56 +0000 Received: from esc91.midphase.com ([216.104.33.66] helo=LC1.labn.net) by esc91.midphase.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1I6nAt-0002Ot-Iq; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:44:39 -0400 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:44:37 -0400 To: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" From: Lou Berger Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Cc: "Greg Bernstein" , In-Reply-To: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BDE1A@esealmw110.eemea.er icsson.se> References: <468D1EAD.606@grotto-networking.com> <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BDE1A@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - esc91.midphase.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ops.ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 Diego, Other than possibly not using SDH=20 encoding, it sounds like your situation is=20 equivalent to the case described in Section 3.5=20 of RFC4202. No? Keep in mind that it's the=20 effective switching capability as represented on=20 an *interface* that is advertised. Lou At 03:14 AM 7/6/2007, Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote: >Hi Greg, > Yes the interface is a single=20 > lambda and then there should be a DWDM Line=20 > system or could be as you said a RODAM. > >Great mind have similar thought J J > >BR > >Diego > >From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com] >Sent: gioved=EC 5 luglio 2007 18.39 >To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) >Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org >Subject: Re: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder > >Hi Diego, looks like we've been thinking about similar issues lately. >First, I want to nail down the interfaces on your lambda switch below. >Are they: >(a) WDM interfaces, i.e., with multiple lambda's coming in and out. >(b) single wavelength interfaces >(c) a combination of the two, e.g., like in a=20 >ADM (or ROADM) where we have line side (WDM) and drop side single= wavelength. > >On terminology instead of "frequency switching"=20 >can we call it by its more typical name=20 >"wavelength conversion" to avoid confusion with=20 >"lambda switching" (since lambda's and=20 >frequencies have a 1-1 correspondence and both=20 >are used to describe optical signals in ITU-T recommendations). > >Given where the OEO is located I'd say that=20 >particular interface is a single wavelength. > >Regards > >Greg B. > >Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote: >Hi all, > I=92ve a doubt about how to model the following situation. > > > > +-----------------+ > | |-------+ > | | OEO | > | Lambda |-------+ > | Switch | > | | > | | > +-----------------+ > > >The node itself is able to cross connect only=20 >the Lambda while the interface has a OEO=20 >transponder that is able to change the lambda=20 >frequency. In this case there are two different=20 >=91switching capability=92 the spatial one that is=20 >performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) -->=20 >(lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is=20 >done by the OEO transponder. Witch kind of=20 >interface switching capability I have to advertise? > >BR > >Diego > >Diego Caviglia >Product Line ON BBN >PA Broadband BNET > >Marconi S.p.A >Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy >Via Anagnina,203 >0018, Roma , Italy >www.ericsson.com > >Office: +39 010 600 3736 >Fax: +39 010 600 3493 >Mobile: +39 335 7181762 >Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com >This communication is confidential and intended=20 >solely for the addressee(s). Any unauthorized=20 >review, use, disclosure or distribution is=20 >prohibited. If you believe this message has been=20 >sent to you in error, please notify the sender=20 >by replying to this transmission and delete the=20 >message without disclosing it. Thank you. > >E-mail including attachments is susceptible to=20 >data corruption, interception, unauthorized=20 >amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only=20 >send and receive emails on the basis that we are=20 >not liable for any such corruption,=20 >interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any consequences thereof. > > > > >-- > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D > >Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 06 09:10:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6na0-0002Bd-MA for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:10:36 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6nZw-0007Ec-2B for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:10:36 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6nQZ-000J4Y-PA for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:00:51 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [193.180.251.62] (helo=mailgw4.ericsson.se) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6nQC-000IzO-T6 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:00:35 +0000 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id A2EEF215FC; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:00:15 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b1036bb0000007e1-99-468e3cdf8d3a Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.121]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 7005920081; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:00:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.78]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:00:15 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: new draft about signaling for a bidirectionl lightpath Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:00:13 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BE088@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <20070706.101016.-1739014091.harai@nict.go.jp> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: new draft about signaling for a bidirectionl lightpath Thread-Index: Ace/a6UcPgSZJDi0RMqz73OkzjeiCwAWX3Iw From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" To: "Hiroaki Harai" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2007 13:00:15.0304 (UTC) FILETIME=[989DFC80:01C7BFCD] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Hi Hiroaki, Not clear to me why the mechanism using label set with the = same lambda as the Upstream label is not enough here. =20 BR Diego -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Hiroaki Harai Sent: venerd=EC 6 luglio 2007 3.10 To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: new draft about signaling for a bidirectionl lightpath Hi everyone, We posted a new draft about GMPLS signaling for a bidirectional lightpath setup as follows. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-rsvpte-bidir-wave-00.txt =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Title : Extensions to GMPLS RSVP-TE for Bidirectional Lightpath with the Same Wavelength Authors : S. Xu, H. Harai, and D. King Filename: draft-xu-rsvpte-bidir-wave-00.txt =09 Abstract: For bidirectional lightpaths provisioning, in the case of optical nodes that do not support wavelength conversion, it would be necessary to use the same wavelength along the route on each direction. In certain optical network scenarios, the use of the same wavelength on both directions would be advantageous. For instance, some type of ROADMs may add/drop the same wavelength simultaneously. In another case, the users' optical end nodes are equipped with fixed-wavelength transponders. This document describes extensions to RSVP-TE signaling for=20 bidirectional wavelength lightpaths that require the same wavelength on=20 both directions. By using an LSP_ATTRIBUTES object defined in [RFC4420], = the extensions enable the new type lightpaths to support the low cost=20 configuration at users' optical end nodes. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D We believe that selecting a single wavelength on both directions for a bidirectional LSP is very real. And our suggestion in this draft is a simple one. We appreciate your comments and feedbacks. With best regards, Hiroaki ------- Hiroaki Harai, Ph.D. (http://nag.nict.go.jp/) Network Architecture Group, New Generation Network Research Center National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT), = JAPAN. Email: harai@nict.go.jp; Phone: +81-42-327-5418; FAX: +81-42-327-6680 From kualw@gmx.de Fri Jul 06 11:48:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6q3G-0006Iv-6l for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:48:58 -0400 Received: from [67.51.211.3] (helo=nevnm) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6q3F-0006bg-RE for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:48:58 -0400 Received: (qmail 14389 invoked from network); Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:51:17 -0600 Received: from unknown (HELO guwjc) (211.136.111.73) by nevnm with SMTP; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:51:17 -0600 Message-ID: <468E64F5.7020502@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:51:17 -0600 From: Sanders Frazier User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: localized Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Brokers Move On ERMX! EntreMetrix Inc. (ERMX) $0.18 Heavy trading today as ERMX announced its launch of digital support tools for its portfolio companies. Brokers are getting ahead of this steady climb as they grab up large blocks of shares for there clients. Look at the numbers and get on ERMX Friday morning! THE THUNDERSTORMS ARE EXPECTED TO DISSIPATE BY LATE THIS EVENING. LISTEN FOR LATER FORECASTS AND POSSIBLE RED FLAG WARNINGS. AN EXCESSIVE HEAT WARNING IS ISSUED WHEN TEMPERATURES ARE FORECAST TO REACH DANGEROUS LEVELS THAT WILL STRESS THE BODY IF PRECAUTIONS ARE NOT TAKEN. IN ADDITION TO LIGHTNING. THERE WILL BE HOT AND DRY CONDITIONS THROUGH FRIDAY. SOME STORMS MAY INITIALLY BE DRY. ANOTHER DAY OF HOT TEMPERATURES ARE EXPECTED ONCE AGAIN TODAY. MOJAVE NATIONAL PRESERVE. STAY OUT OF THE SUNSHINE AND IN AN AIR-CONDITIONED ROOM IF POSSIBLE DURING THE AFTERNOON HOURS. THE DRY AIRMASS IS RESULTING IN A PROLONGED PERIOD OF VERY LOW HUMIDITY READINGS. IT REMAINS TOO EARLY TO ACCURATELY PREDICT THE FUTURE PATH AND INTENSITY OF THIS DEVELOPING DISTURBANCE. A COMBINATION OF LOW RELATIVE HUMIDITY AND WARM TEMPERATURES WILL CREATE EXPLOSIVE FIRE GROWTH POTENTIAL. LOCALIZED HEAVY RAIN IS POSSIBLE UNDER THE CORES OF STRONGER OR SLOW MOVING STORMS. AND MAY PRODUCE DRY LIGHTNING. VERY WARM AND DRY CONDITIONS EXIST IN THE MOUNTAINS. BUT MAY GRADUALLY BECOME WETTER AS ADDITIONAL SUBTROPICAL MOISTURE MOVES INTO THE AREA. LOW RELATIVE HUMIDITIES AND HOT TEMPERATURES WILL RESULT IN NARROW RAIN SHAFTS FROM THE THUNDERSTORMS. DRY FUELS AND LIGHTNING WILL CREATE EXPLOSIVE FIRE GROWTH POTENTIAL. ISOLATED TO SCATTERED DRY THUNDERSTORMS WILL DEVELOP ACROSS THE MOUNTAINS OF EASTERN UTAH AND WESTERN COLORADO EARLY THIS AFTERNOON. MAINLY DURING THE NIGHT AND EARLY MORNING HOURS. ADDITIONAL MID AND HIGH LEVEL MOISTURE IS EXPECTED TO SPREAD INTO SOUTHWEST IDAHO SATURDAY AHEAD OF AN UPPER LEVEL TROUGH. A COMBINATION OF LOW RELATIVE HUMIDITY AND WARM TEMPERATURES WILL CREATE EXPLOSIVE FIRE GROWTH POTENTIAL. THUNDERSTORMS WILL BE MAINLY DRY WITH ONLY LOCALIZED WETTING RAINS POSSIBLE UNDER THE CORES OF THE STRONGEST STORMS. EL DORADO AND STANISLAUS NATIONAL FORESTS. THE RED FLAG WARNING INCLUDES PORTIONS OF THE LASSEN. AND WARM TEMPERATURES WILL CREATE EXPLOSIVE FIRE GROWTH POTENTIAL. FORECAST MODELS HAVE THE TROPICAL DISTURBANCE MOVING BETWEEN GUAM AND YAP BY THE MIDDLE OF NEXT WEEK. STAY OUT OF THE SUNSHINE AND IN AN AIR-CONDITIONED ROOM IF POSSIBLE DURING THE AFTERNOON HOURS. AS THE TROUGH MOVES THROUGH SOUTHWEST IDAHO. THE ATMOSPHERE IS EXPECTED TO DESTABILIZE ENOUGH FOR DRY THUNDERSTORMS TO DEVELOP BY EARLY SATURDAY AFTERNOON. From okey@mailctrl.com Fri Jul 06 12:27:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6qeN-0005ql-D8 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:27:19 -0400 Received: from [125.187.32.186] (helo=m24.mailyes.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6qeM-0001oZ-Gz for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:27:19 -0400 Received: (qmail 31336 invoked by uid 0); 7 Jul 2007 00:43:02 +0900 Message-ID: <20070706154302.31335.qmail@m24.mailyes.net> To: ccamp-archive Subject: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQCdIczBsRVlHQSQkJEYbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCskRjI8JDUkJCEqGyhC?= From: naoko matsuyama Reply-to: delivery_rt Date: 2007-07-07 00:40:01 Content-type: text/plain; charset= ISO-2022-JP X-Mailer: GOOD Mailer 1.0 X-Priority: 1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Keywords: 20070706210011_cbtu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b22590c27682ace61775ee7b453b40d3 2007$BG/BgCmL\$N!Z%G%k%\!<%$![$rCN$C$F$^$9$+!)!)(B $B4JC1$K8@$C$A$c$&$H=w@-$NITK~$d%9%H%l%9$r2r>C$7$F$"(B $B$2$FJs=7$rF@$k!*!*%G%j%X%k$N5U%P!<%8%g%s$_$?$$$J$b(B $B$N$G$9!#(B $BET9gNI$/M7$Y$kCK@-$r5a$a$k%;%l%V=w@-$P$+$j$G$9!#(B $B:#$N$4;~@$$=$s$J$b$N$G$9!D(B $BIaDL$NM7$S$KK0$-$?=w@-!&3d$j@Z$j!&IW$KITK~$r;}$C$?(B $B1|MM!&Nx0&$KBP$7$F0z$C9~$_;W0F$J?M:J$d%;%C%/%9$KBP(B $B$7$F%*!<%W%s$K$J$l$J$$=w$N;R!&D94|$N$*IU$-9g$$Ey!"(B $BMM!9$J4uK>$N=w@-$,L~$7$r5a$a$F$$$k$s$G$9!#(B http://www.yyoo.info/goodman2 $B"(%K%C%/%M!<%`$N:G8e$K(BDB$B$HF~$l$F$/$l$l$P!"%G%k%\!<(B $B%$$r5a$a$k=w@-2q0w$NJ}$K5.J}$r>R2p$5$l$^$9!#(B $BG[?.Dd;_$O$3$A$i"-"-"-"-"-"-"-"-(B pureangel_pureangel@yahoo.co.uk From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 06 14:25:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6sUX-0000NA-3e for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:25:17 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6sUQ-0003KE-6s for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:25:17 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6sKo-00020e-O0 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:15:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO, MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.8 Received: from [156.154.24.138] (helo=ns3.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6sKd-0001x3-RC for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:15:09 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 713C5175FD; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 18:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1I6sKb-0002u8-Vi; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:15:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt Message-Id: Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:15:01 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Analysis of Inter-domain Label Switched Path (LSP) Recovery Author(s) : T. Takeda, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2007-7-6 This document analyzes various schemes to realize Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP) recovery in multi-domain networks based on the existing framework for multi-domain LSPs. The main focus for this document is on establishing end-to-end diverse Traffic Engineering (TE) LSPs in multi-domain networks. It presents various diverse LSP setup schemes based on existing functional elements. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-6134934.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-6134934.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From sgxh@oup-usa.org Fri Jul 06 14:42:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6slT-0004An-Lo for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:42:47 -0400 Received: from ip-65-162-118-68.lcturbonet.com ([65.162.118.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6slD-0007ys-FR for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:42:47 -0400 Received: from fln ([83.227.86.169]) by ip-65-162-118-68.lcturbonet.com (8.13.2/8.13.2) with SMTP id l66Ih0oj051669; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 11:43:00 -0700 Message-ID: <468E8CBB.6080102@oup-usa.org> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 11:40:59 -0700 From: Dicky L. 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CjEyNjUwCiUlRU9GCg== --------------000304020701000602060604-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 06 22:13:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6znw-0008Jm-G8 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:13:48 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6znp-0001zb-Qf for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:13:48 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6zdc-00010g-SZ for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 02:03:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [133.243.3.2] (helo=ns2.nict.go.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I6zdQ-0000y4-H2 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 02:03:02 +0000 Received: from gw1.nict.go.jp (gw1 [133.243.18.250]) by ns2.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id l6722eQe026206; Sat, 7 Jul 2007 11:02:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from gw1.nict.go.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gw1.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id l6722eqi009004; Sat, 7 Jul 2007 11:02:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail1.nict.go.jp (mail.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.3]) by gw1.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id l6722exY009001; Sat, 7 Jul 2007 11:02:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail1.nict.go.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.nict.go.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219374244; Sat, 7 Jul 2007 11:02:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (skigoggle.nict.go.jp [133.243.146.51]) by mail1.nict.go.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 035704239; Sat, 7 Jul 2007 11:02:39 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 11:01:16 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20070707.110116.-1300538656.harai@nict.go.jp> To: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com, ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: new draft about signaling for a bidirectionl lightpath From: Hiroaki Harai In-Reply-To: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BE088@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> References: <20070706.101016.-1739014091.harai@nict.go.jp> <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BE088@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> X-Mailer: Mew version 4.1 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 200d029292fbb60d25b263122ced50fc Hi, Diego. I think the usage that you mentioned (using label set and upstream label) is not enough by the following two reasons. 1. [Non-support of multiple lambdas] Upstream label object conveys only ONE label, which is likely to face lack of the same lambda as that in the previous link. We have high blocking probability for LSP setup. If we convey multiple lambdas for upstream, the probability would be reduced significantly (but, we cannot convey). Someone may want to change lambda in Upstream Label into other lambda among lambdas in the Label Set when the lambda in Upstream Label is not acceptable further. However, according to Section 3.1 of RFC 3473, if label in Upstream Label is not acceptable, PathErr is generated. Different from Suggested Label, we have no chance to change. So, using Upstream Label is not enough. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D 3.1 Procedures (RFC 3473) The process of establishing a bidirectional LSP follows the establishment of a unidirectional LSP with some additions. To support bidirectional LSPs an Upstream_Label object is added to the Path message. The Upstream_Label object MUST indicate a label that is valid for forwarding at the time the Path message is sent. When a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver MUST issue a PathErr message with a "Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set, see Section 4.1. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D 2. [Keep flexibility] The same lambda on both directions may not reqested for some bidirectional LSPs different from the case in this draft. In this case, once we pose the same lambda constraint against upstream label, we lose flexiblity to setup LSPs by different lambda in each direction. Best regards, - Hiroaki = From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" Subject: RE: new draft about signaling for a bidirectionl lightpath Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:00:13 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BE088@esealmw110.eemea.er= icsson.se> > = > Hi Hiroaki, > Not clear to me why the mechanism using label set with the= same lambda as the Upstream label is not enough here. = > = > BR > = > Diego > = > = > = > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On B= ehalf Of Hiroaki Harai > Sent: venerd=EC 6 luglio 2007 3.10 > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: new draft about signaling for a bidirectionl lightpath > = > Hi everyone, > = > We posted a new draft about GMPLS signaling for a bidirectional > lightpath setup as follows. > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-rsvpte-bidir-wave-00.txt= > = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Title : Extensions to GMPLS RSVP-TE for Bidirectional Lightpath wit= h > the Same Wavelength > Authors : S. Xu, H. Harai, and D. King > Filename: draft-xu-rsvpte-bidir-wave-00.txt > = > Abstract: For bidirectional lightpaths provisioning, in the case of > optical nodes that do not support wavelength conversion, it would be > necessary to use the same wavelength along the route on each > direction. In certain optical network scenarios, the use of the same > wavelength on both directions would be advantageous. For instance, > some type of ROADMs may add/drop the same wavelength > simultaneously. In another case, the users' optical end nodes are > equipped with fixed-wavelength transponders. > = > This document describes extensions to RSVP-TE signaling for = > bidirectional wavelength lightpaths that require the same wavelength = on = > both directions. By using an LSP_ATTRIBUTES object defined in [RFC442= 0], = > the extensions enable the new type lightpaths to support the low cost= = > configuration at users' optical end nodes. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > = > We believe that selecting a single wavelength on both directions for = a > bidirectional LSP is very real. 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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 07 09:55:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7AkZ-0006mW-NN for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 09:55:03 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7AkY-0000GP-T9 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 09:55:03 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7AbH-000Ohp-4t for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:45:27 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [62.23.212.7] (helo=smail6.alcatel.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7Ab0-000Ofj-Vf for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:45:20 +0000 Received: from FRVELSBHS05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com [155.132.6.77]) by smail6.alcatel.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/ICT) with ESMTP id l67DilrA032321; Sat, 7 Jul 2007 15:44:47 +0200 Received: from FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com ([155.132.6.52]) by FRVELSBHS05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Sat, 7 Jul 2007 15:44:35 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown-03.txt Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 15:44:25 +0200 Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E3809804EC@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> In-Reply-To: <063801c7ac2a$23cdeb10$1d01a8c0@your029b8cecfe> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown-03.txt Thread-Index: AcesKq7ne8EWLsq6RrS4zGU/bWo/UQUcZBHQ From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Adrian Farrel" , "Zafar Ali" , Cc: "Jean Philippe Vasseur" , "Anca Zamfir" , , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2007 13:44:35.0565 (UTC) FILETIME=[F4AB59D0:01C7C09C] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 155.132.188.84 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 919b3965bd46f7460d234f848680b238 adrian the new error sub-code for the RSVP error-code "Routing=20 Problem" (24) [RSVP-TE] is:=20 =20 9 (TBA) Local component link maintenance required=20 overlaps with the already defined Routing Problem 9 =3D MPLS label allocation failure [RFC3209] this said if one does want to achieve certain consistency it should be defined as a error value should be defined as a sub-code of the Notify Error code (25) 7 =3D Local link maintenance required [RFC4736] 8 =3D Local node maintenance required [RFC4736] =20 thanks, -d. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 3:12 PM > To: Zafar Ali; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Cc: 'Jean Philippe Vasseur'; 'Anca Zamfir';=20 > Jonathan.newton@cw.com; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS > Subject: Re: I-D=20 > ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown-03.txt=20 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > The authors have indicated that this draft is complete and=20 > ready for WG last=20 > call. >=20 > As is now our customary ritual, the chairs have done a=20 > pre-last call review.=20 > In this case, I am the lucky reviewer. >=20 > Although the changes below are relatively minor in substance,=20 > they are many.=20 > I feel it would be helpful to reviewers in last call if you=20 > could provide an=20 > update with these issues fixed. As soon as I see it published we can=20 > initiate last call (subject to the Chicago meeting not=20 > getting in the way). >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > =3D=3D=3D > "GMPLS" in title, abstract, and first use in main text. > Unfortunately, "GMPLS" is still not a recognised term in the=20 > wider IETF. > You must, therefore, expand the acronym where it first occurs. > =3D=3D=3D > Abstract line 1 > s/shutdown/Shutdown/ > =3D=3D=3D > Abstract para 1 > s/towards/toward/ > =3D=3D=3D > Abstract para 1 > s/addressing the planned/addressing planned/ > =3D=3D=3D > Abstract > "These operations are equally > applicable for both MPLS and its GMPLS extensions." > If so, why have you named the document as you have. > Wouldn't a better name have been: > Graceful Shutdown in MPLS and Generalized MPLS Traffic=20 > Engineering Networks > =3D=3D=3D > Conventions used in this document > Section contains a reference to "[i]" that is not resolved. > =3D=3D=3D > Contents table > Formatting is scrappy > =3D=3D=3D > 1. Terminology > s/LSR - Label Switching Device./LSR - Label Switching Router./ > =3D=3D=3D > 1. Terminology > "LSP - An MPLS Label Switched Path" > What happened to GMPLS? > =3D=3D=3D > 1. Terminology > The definition for "Head-end or Ingress node:" is very hard=20 > to read and, I=20 > suspect, non-intuitive. Redefining "head-end" to mean=20 > "sometimes also a=20 > transit node" will really fry people's minds! If you need a=20 > term for a node=20 > that performs a specific function, I suggest that you create=20 > a new term=20 > rather than overloading an existing one. > =3D=3D=3D > 1. Terminology > "GMPLS - The term GMPLS is used in this document to refer to both > classic MPLS, as well as the GMPLS extensions to MPLS." > You mean LDP? > =3D=3D=3D > 1. Terminology > TE Link > a. You need to provide an expansion of FA-LSP, and probably a=20 > reference > b. Your definition has not caught all of the possible uses of=20 > a TE link=20 > (such > as link bundles). Perhaps you want to use a generic definition? > =3D=3D=3D > 2. Introduction > "disable Traffic Engineering on a TE Link" > This begs the question: what is traffic engineering? > Are you disabling TE on the link, or are you disabling data=20 > traffic on the=20 > link? > I think some work throughout the document to clarify the=20 > difference between: > - the impact of disabling a link (viz. traffic cannot flow) > and > - disabling TE advertisement (viz. the link's capacity is=20 > withdrawn from the=20 > TED). > The latter being the way to gracefully advertise the former. > =3D=3D=3D > 2. Introduction para 1 > s/graceful reroute/gracefully reroute/ > =3D=3D=3D > 2. Introduction > "The node initiating the graceful shutdown condition > SHOULD delay the removal of the resources for forwarding, for > some period determined by local policy." > The point is not the delay. The point is the delay between=20 > disabling the=20 > resource in the control plane and removing the resource for=20 > forwarding. > Can you clarify, please. > =3D=3D=3D > 2. Introduction para 2 > s/allow control/allow the control/ > =3D=3D=3D > 2. Introduction para 2 > "Similarly, trigger for the graceful > shutdown event is a local matter at the node initiating the > graceful shutdown." > a. Similarly to what? > b. s/trigger/the trigger/ > =3D=3D=3D > 2. Introduction > "traditional shutdown operation of an interface" > I like this phrase. > My family have been shutting down interfaces for generations. We use=20 > traditional techniques involving spun grass and a hand axe. > =3D=3D=3D > 2. Introduction > Last line > s/node/nodes/ > =3D=3D=3D > Section 3. > Formatting is broken. > Indentation and bullets. > =3D=3D=3D > Section 3 2nd requirement > This reads a bit odd. Would it be better as: >=20 > - Once an operator has initiated graceful shutdown of a network > resource, no new TE LSPs may be set up that use the resource. > Any signaling message for a new LSP that explicitly specifies the > resource, or that would require the use of the resource due to > local constraints, must be rejected as if the resource were > unavailable. >=20 > - It is desirable for new LSP setup attempts that would be rejected > because of graceful shutdown of a resource (as described in the > previous requirement) to avoid any attempt to use the resource by > selecting an alternate route or other resources. > =3D=3D=3D > Section 3 > " - It is required to reduce/eliminate traffic disruption on the > LSP(s) using the network resources which are about to be > shutdown." > Is this the requirement, or is the requirement to give the=20 > ingress the=20 > opportunity to perform this function if policy and=20 > configuration require it,=20 > and if network resources allow? > =3D=3D=3D > Section 3 > " - In order to make rerouting effective, it is required to > communicate information about the TE resource under graceful > shutdown." > I know what you mean, but you have been terribly=20 > non-specific. Communicate=20 > what information from whom to whom? > It is probably: > - the fact that the resource is being shut down > - from the node where the resource is located > - to all other network nodes > =3D=3D=3D > Page 4 (and several other places) > Excessive page throws > =3D=3D=3D > Section 4.1 > "Setup request for new LSPs over the TE resource being gracefully > shutdown SHOULD be rejected using the existing mechanisms that > are applied when the TE resource is not available." > Are you sure that you don't want to reject the setup using=20 > one of your new=20 > error codes? > =3D=3D=3D > Section 4.1.1 > The "local > TE link maintenance required" error code is defined in [PATH- > REOPT]. > s/local TE link/local link/ > In the whole of this section, and the rest of the document, please be=20 > careful to distinguish Error Codes and Error Values. In this=20 > case you are=20 > talking about an Error Value that is associated with the=20 > "Notify" Error=20 > Code. It is necessary to describe both fields. > =3D=3D=3D > Section 4.1.1 > Suddenly you are abbreviating to "GS". I think that is inadvisable. > =3D=3D=3D > General question. > Would it help the ingress or PLR if the PathErr reporting=20 > imminent graceful=20 > shutdown included additional information such as the likely=20 > time of shutdown=20 > in the data plane, and the likely time of restart? > We do have mechanisms for this function in RFC 4783. > =3D=3D=3D > Section 4.1.1 > When a head-end LSR receives a Path Error (or Notify) message > with sub-code "Local Maintenance on TE Link required Flag", it > SHOULD immediately trigger a make-before-break procedure. A head- > end node SHOULD avoid the IP address contained in the PathErr (or > Notify message) when performing path computation for the new LSP. > a. The name of the subcode continues to mutate :-) > b. The first SHOULD is *entirely* a matter of local policy.=20 > It is a MAY. > c. The second SHOULD is ambiguous as you haven't told us which > IP address is contained in the PathErr. Since the Error Value is > related to a TE Link, presumably it is the TE link IP address. But > what if it is a node being shut down? What if it is only a lambda > being shut down? > Can you not use some more informative fields and reason codes > as provided in draft-ietf-ccamp-crankback-06.txt or RFC4872? > d. Please be consistent and use "Path Error" or "PathErr". I=20 > prefer the > second. > =3D=3D=3D > Section 4.1.1 > If the resource being gracefully shutdown is on the Path of the > protecting LSP/ local detour, the branch node/ PLR reroutes the > protecting LSP/ local detour just a head-end LSR would reroute > any other LSP. > Need to tidy up the text. > But what are you saying? One LSP is the same as another, and=20 > reroute takes=20 > place from the head end. That is all. > =3D=3D=3D > Section 4.1.2 > RSVP error-code "Routing Problem" (24) [RSVP-TE] is > needed: > 9 (TBA) Local component link maintenance required > Why is this a subcode of Routing Problem, when you have used=20 > a subcode of=20 > Notify for the case of the whole TE link? > More importantly, the use of Routing Problem is likely to=20 > cause us to run=20 > into questions about whether the upstream transit nodes will=20 > panic and tear=20 > the LSP or not. Using the Notify Error Code is a much safer approach. > =3D=3D=3D > Section 4.1.2 > The head-end LSR MAY still use the IP address > contained in the Path Error or Notify message in performing path > computation for rerouting the LSP. This is because, this address > is an IP address of the component link and the flag is an > implicit indication that the TE link may still have capacity to > admit new LSPs. > If the IP address is the address of the component link being=20 > shut down, then=20 > it cannot be used in the new path. If, however, the address=20 > is the address=20 > of the link bundle, then it can still be used. > =3D=3D=3D > Important > I think you are missing an element of procedure that applies=20 > at the node=20 > doing shut down. > please state clearly which addresses are placed in which fields when=20 > reporting graceful shutdown for a: > - node > - te link > - component link > - label resource > =3D=3D=3D > Section 4.1.2 > However, if the ERO is computed such that it also > provides details of the component link selection(s) along the > Path, the component link selection with IP address contained in > the Path Error or Notify message SHOULD be avoided. > The use of "SHOULD" implies that there may be a good reason=20 > to continue to=20 > use the address. Please supply the text > "MAY continue to use it in order to ...." > =3D=3D=3D > Section 4.1.3 > Doesn't give enough information to the head end to avoid the=20 > problem node in=20 > its reroute computations. > Perhaps you need to reorder your document to say that the IGP=20 > pieces happen=20 > first, and the shutdown node should wait to allow the IGP to=20 > converge before=20 > sending out PathErr and or Notify? > =3D=3D=3D > Section 4.2.1 > Why not include also specifying Minimum LSP Bandwidth as=20 > greater than the=20 > available bandwidth and greater than the maximum LSP bandwidth? > This goes further than "discouraging" the use of the TE link,=20 > it makes it=20 > impossible to use even for zero-bandwidth LSPs. > I'm pretty sure this was discussed several times in the WG. > =3D=3D=3D > Section 4.2.1 > Neighbors of the node where graceful shutdown procedure is in > progress SHOULD continue to advertise the actual unreserved > bandwidth of the TE links from the neighbors to that node, > without any routing adjacency change. > Doesn't this mean that the TE link is only shut down in one=20 > direction? So=20 > unidirectional LSPs would still try to use the link. > =3D=3D=3D > Section 5 > I don't think you will get this past the Security ADs. > What happens if graceful shutdown is: > - spoofed > - hidden (i.e. the signaling or routing is blocked) > You have not mentioned the IGP security. > it might be a good idea to include a reference to Luyuan's draft. > =3D=3D=3D > Section 6 > You need to give IANA far clearer instructions than this. > Please look at a recent RFC for an example. > I suggest RFC 4873 section 9.5 > =3D=3D=3D > References > Personally, I like references to RFCs to use the RFC numbers=20 > as this is far=20 > quicker to look up. But you don't have to make this change. > =3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:50 PM > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown-03.txt >=20 >=20 > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Common Control and=20 > Measurement Plane=20 > > Working Group of the IETF. > > > > Title : Graceful Shutdown in GMPLS Traffic Engineering Networks > > Author(s) : Z. Ali, et al. > > Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown-03.txt > > Pages : 9 > > Date : 2007-6-8 > > > > GMPLS-TE Graceful shutdown is a method for explicitly notifying > > the nodes in a Traffic Engineering (TE) enabled network that the > > TE capability on a link or on an entire Label Switching Router > > (LSR) is going to be disabled. GMPLS-TE graceful shutdown > > mechanisms are tailored towards addressing the planned outage in > > the network. > > > > This document provides requirements and protocol mechanisms so as > > to reduce/eliminate traffic disruption in the event of a planned > > shutdown of a network resource. These operations are equally > > applicable for both MPLS and its GMPLS extensions. > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-grac > eful-shutdown-03.txt >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 07 16:04:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7GVl-00080k-6z for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 16:04:09 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7GVe-0002Yq-Mg for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 16:04:09 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7GMX-0009Mn-3l for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 19:54:37 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [64.208.49.27] (helo=smail5.alcatel.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7GML-0009Lm-M8 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 19:54:31 +0000 Received: from FRVELSBHS02.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs02.ad2.ad.alcatel.com [155.132.6.74]) by smail5.alcatel.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/ICT) with ESMTP id l67JqLPF021064; Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:52:22 +0200 Received: from FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com ([155.132.6.52]) by FRVELSBHS02.ad2.ad.alcatel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:54:08 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:53:57 +0200 Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380980503@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Follow-up on comments on draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt Thread-Index: Ace/Iv/wATkVETcSTT+CAQmeajDxfgBrSD/w From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Zafar Ali $zali$" , "Lou Berger" , "Igor Bryskin" , Cc: "Adrian Farrel" , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , "Hassan Sheikh $hassans$" , "Tomohiro Otani" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2007 19:54:08.0020 (UTC) FILETIME=[947B7D40:01C7C0D0] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 155.132.188.13 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2857c5c041d6c02d7181d602c22822c8 zafar it is the other way around, because you have different subnets you can not make use of existing mechanisms "The solution we are pushing for is that we need a mechanism that allows us to resolve ARP directly for the GMPLS tunnel ip addresses. This removes any dependency on the underlying Ethernet links or the addressing scheme that is used for TE links i.e. numbered links in the same or different subnets." hence the first question is why shall this be different ? -d. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali) > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 6:39 PM > To: Lou Berger; Igor Bryskin; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > (hassans); Tomohiro Otani > Subject: Follow-up on comments on=20 > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt >=20 > Hi Lou, Igor, ccamper, et al,=20 > =20 > Here is a follow-up on our AI from last WG meeting on the=20 > comments received on=20 > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt. We=20 > are planning to revise the document based on your feedback.=20 > Please advise if you have any further comment/ suggestion.=20 > =20 > The issue is focused around the use of the GMPLS tunnel as a=20 > point-to-point link using Ethernet TE links. Unlike pos links=20 > where a L2 adjacency resolution is not required, the Ethernet=20 > links require that the ARP be resolved (aka Layer 2 MAC=20 > address) before any forwarding works on this link. It is not=20 > a case of broken implementation. We (router vendors) cannot=20 > work around ARP. What we need to do is to provide clear=20 > direction or recommendation for vendors on how to ARP for=20 > GMPLS controlled Ethernet interfaces. Or else, all vendors=20 > will implement whatever ARP mechanism works for them in terms=20 > of forwarding. E.g., there is an interop issue between=20 > Juniper and Cisco (from a fwding perspective) when Ethernet=20 > links are used (Both do ARP). We had to find workarounds to=20 > make things work (at ISO Core and in private testing). The=20 > same will be the case between Cisco, Juniper and other vendors.=20 > =20 > The solution we are pushing for is that we need a mechanism=20 > that allows us to resolve ARP directly for the GMPLS tunnel=20 > ip addresses. This removes any dependency on the underlying=20 > Ethernet links or the addressing scheme that is used for TE=20 > links i.e. numbered links in the same or different subnets. > =20 > In the following, we describe the situation with numbered=20 > Ethernet links and Unnumbered Ethernet links (the assumption=20 > is that the GMPLS tunnel is a ipv4 numbered link in both instances). > =20 > Consider the scenario=20 > =20 > <----------------------------------------------GMPLS=20 > Tunnel------------------------------------------> > =20 > RTR1 <------GE data link/TE link -----> OXC <------ GE data=20 > link/TE link -----> RTR2 > segment # 1 =20 > segment # 2 > There are two instance to consider: > =20 > (a) When numbered TE links are used but segment # 1 and=20 > segment # 2 are in different subnets (valid scenario) > In this situation we really have no way of resolving ARP=20 > using the addresses of the underlying TE link Ethernet links=20 > w/o using static ARP entries. The issue is that the subnets=20 > are different so the ARP request received by RTR2 from RTR1=20 > will be rejected as it is not known to RTR2 and vice versa.=20 > Instead, if the ARP request if for the GMPLS tunnel instead=20 > then there should be no problem as the GMPLS tunnel is p-p=20 > link with IPV4 addresses in the same subnet. > Verdict: If we have the ARP resolution mechanism tied in to=20 > the GMPLS tunnel interfaces addresses then there is no issue=20 > or dependency=20 > =20 > (a) When numbered TE links are used and segment # 1 and=20 > segment # 2 are in the same subnet.=20 > In this setup the GMPLS Tunnel can inherit and use the=20 > ethernet link address for ARP resolution and there is no=20 > issue as both segments are in the same subnet. The problem in=20 > this situation is that we need to resolve the ARP for the=20 > ipv4 addresses for the GMPLS tunnel (considered as a p-p=20 > link) as opposed to inherit it from the underlying Ethernet TE links. > Verdict: In this situation the ARP resolution mechanism=20 > should be developed for the GMPLS tunnel address. > =20 > (c) The third scenario is when the GMPLS tunnel is numbered=20 > but the TE links are Unnumbered. > In this case we are again faced with the same issue of=20 > L2 ARP adjacency resolution between RTR1 and RTR2. RTR2 will=20 > reject the ARP request for RTR1 when it does not find the=20 > Unnumbered address (used by RTR1) in its FWDing database.=20 > This issue would not be encountered if we were resolving the=20 > ARP on GMPLS tunnel address. > Verdict: ARP resolution mechanism is required for GMPLS tunnel. > =20 > (d) We also need to make sure that when the tunnel-id is=20 > unnum, vendor implementation honor ARP request using loopback=20 > addresses. We have also faced interop issue in this scenario.=20 > =20 > Thanks > =20 > Regards... 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Do you want Rolex? 9uczs03y4v- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 08 06:35:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7U7S-0001XH-Tl for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 06:35:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7U7O-0005yQ-JM for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 06:35:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7TzQ-000F5U-Gx for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 10:27:40 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [62.128.193.156] (helo=mta6.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7TzF-000F4m-5P for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 10:27:35 +0000 Received: from mta6.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mta6.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l68ARRcj016336 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:27:27 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by mta6.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l68ARPiM016230 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:27:26 +0100 Message-ID: <043001c7c14a$933c9430$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: First draft agenda published Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:23:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Hi all, We have posted a first draft agenda at http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/agenda/ccamp.htm Please have a look and let us know what you think. - What else should be included? - What things are in the wrong order? - What should be moved between the two sessions? Presenters should feel free to send their slides as soon as possible. As usual, getting your slides to us one or two days before the meeting is a courtesy to everyone especially those for whom English is not a native language. Thanks, Deborah and Adrian From xsbw@sda.pf Sun Jul 08 11:21:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7Ya7-00059G-72 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:21:51 -0400 Received: from [211.154.5.201] (helo=kzkztp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7YZs-0005x3-L4 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:21:51 -0400 Received: from [67.57.140.100] (helo=kxzs) by kzkztp with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1I8dN-0001Ho-9Y; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 23:25:13 +0800 Message-ID: <469100B2.2060507@sda.pf> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 23:20:18 +0800 From: Emily X. Burnett User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: LEGISLATORS appear poised on Tuesday to override most if not all of Gov. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: a7d2e37451f7f22841e3b6f40c67db0f VPSN WILL MOVE LIKE A COMET AND ITS ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER! Watch this SUPERNOVA closely MONDAY! VISION AIRSHIPS INC Symbol: VPSN Price: $0.021 BANGKOK, THAILAND, July 2007 Advertising Agencies Ready to Ink Deals! The company wishes to announce that it is in final negotiations for representation with some of the world's largest advertising agencies to market and reserve the blimps for there clients. VPSN THE RISING STAR, IS SET FOR SUPERNOVA STATUS ON MONDAY! This has occurred after years of legislative raids from the state highway fund. " It is about INTIMIDATION, EGO, REVENGE, VENDETTA and CORPORATE TERRORISM in the Mesa mainland style. kiss a tous et a toutes. LEGISLATORS appear poised on Tuesday to override most if not all of Gov. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I hope, for Jason's sake, he knows when to quit. The Constitution allows the Legislature to convene a special session and quickly amend the bills to fix the flaws. Then he laughed again and said he might have been a "violent TV star or comedian" and probably would have "gravitated toward Hollywood. I don't understand the allure of watching grown, sweaty men grappling and putting their faces in close proximity to other sweaty guys' private regions. Having the option of using the state's power of eminent domain would allow the state to pursue this purchase using fair market value, not the seller's asking price. "We were brought up to work hard," Matthew said, adding that his passion is to eventually take over the family business. Because you're family. I was also a little leery about interviewing him because the brief flashes of him I saw on TV were kind of scary. The district judge who ruled it to be unconstitutional was nominated by President Jimmy Carter. Pouvez vous me contacter via mail ? " Word of mouth makes the restaurants successful, he said. during the past year, coupled with e-mail statements made by Mesa officials last year, strongly indicate that Mesa intends to put Aloha Airlines out of business as a necessary step for go! The suit in Arizona was dismissed last month for lack of jurisdiction. is the lieutenant governor of Hawaii. is the lieutenant governor of Hawaii. my father said 'no you come to work,' " she said. Chris Benoit might have injected the steroids that triggered his tragic actions. Odessa, Texas I'm proud of my father who understands aloha Thanks for making contact with my dad. Erika Engle is a reporter with the Star-Bulletin. So I called him to ask that very question. Mike's knowledge of Mesa and how that company is run is from firsthand experience. Among alcoholics and children of alcoholics, you'll often hear them talk about parents who didn't drink or do drugs, but were "rage-aholics. Quand je suis avec toi, mes peurs je les laisse s'en aller. They could not prove that they were among the agency's targets. Our state Constitution provides a solution for this problem of well-intentioned but seriously flawed bills. They were big, colorful characters. I won't argue they should be allowed in sports, because greed and the need to win have already resulted in widespread abuse of performance-enhancing drugs. , and Operations Manager Jonathan Moribe held up a big slab of meat Thursday that was to be cut up later. Then our cost of living could be on a more equal scale with the mainland. Just as he did with drinking. " Sandy honed her business skills as a teenager watching her father, whom she describes as an extremely bright and shrewd businessman. " It is about INTIMIDATION, EGO, REVENGE, VENDETTA and CORPORATE TERRORISM in the Mesa mainland style. Hawaii is about ohana and giving and receiving aloha. It was also an outlet for the anger I carried around. the mascot who looks like he belongs in a tag team match with Zulu the Warrior . Perhaps the reason no one ever heard them ask for help was that their voices were drowned out by the roar of the crowds who only wanted to see them beat another human into submission. La classe, la classe . Pouvez vous me contacter via mail ? "It was like an incentive to work. It even sells exotic specialty meats like rabbit, buffalo and snake upon request. Her father also taught her the value of hard work and loyalty to family. Steve Uslan Former president of Hutchair Inc. He got into judo, jujitsu and kick-boxing. WHICH BRINGS ME back to the dark side of modern-day sports. If Mesa feels that Mike's allegations are untrue, than let them litigate those matters in court in Hawaii. But, if we welcome the competitive edge and innovative ideas onto our doorsteps, then a better quality of life will result for everyone. kiss a tous et a toutes. From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 08 11:29:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7YhW-0003uC-CO for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:29:30 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7YhW-00069K-1i for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:29:30 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7YYr-000Kmk-Pa for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:20:33 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [61.144.161.55] (helo=szxga03-in.huawei.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7YYe-000Kkv-4m for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:20:28 +0000 Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JKV003QN99U4Q@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 23:20:18 +0800 (CST) Received: from dan (3.123.40.59.broad.sz.gd.dynamic.163data.com.cn [59.40.123.3]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JKV00C9A99T1O@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 23:20:18 +0800 (CST) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 23:17:21 +0800 From: Dan Li Subject: Re: Support for draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt as WG I-D? To: Adrian Farrel , ccamp Cc: "Deborah A. Brungard" , Arun Satyanarayana Message-id: <003e01c7c173$7dbb3890$6401a8c0@dan> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=Windows-1252; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <003601c7b469$e8a239e0$374d460a@china.huawei.com> <008b01c7b67f$4e106e70$c6bea8c0@your029b8cecfe> Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 Hi, As a co-author of this draft, I should say YES! Thanks, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Dan Li" ; "ccamp" Cc: "Deborah A. Brungard" ; "Arun Satyanarayana" Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 8:40 PM Subject: Support for draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt as WG I-D? > Hi, > > In Prague we found that there was some support for this work, and no > opposition. > > There were questions regarding clarifying that the work does not define > new process or procedures, but explains how existing procedures (i.e. > draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-08.txt) can be applied in a variety of > situations. I think that this revision has included this clarification. > > There was a request to broaden the draft to cover all scenarios (not just > multi-node as before), and this has been done. > > There was concern about whether there was "service provider" interest in > this work. In fact, several of the hands raised to express interest worked > for service providers. But I am not personally convinced that this > Informational work needs strong support from that sector. More to the > point would be support from the vendors who need to agree how they will > operate draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext. > > So, I'd like to ask the WG whether there is support to make this I-D a WG > draft. > If we do, I would like to see it complete quite quickly. It would need: > - review by vendors to make sure it is accurate > - a bit more text on security issues > > Thanks, > Adrian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Li" > To: "ccamp" > Cc: "Deborah A. Brungard" ; "Farrel, Adrian" > ; "Arun Satyanarayana" > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 2:08 AM > Subject: New draft: draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt > > >> Dear CCAMPers, >> >> We have published a "new" I-D: >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt >> >> This I-D replaces the previous I-D >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/draft-li-ccamp-multinodes-gr-proc-01.txt. >> >> According to the discussion in Prague meeting, we have: >> 1) Changed draft to be Informational. Mainly rewords the draft to make >> sure that it does not give instructions that could be interpreted as >> defining the procedures. >> 2) The title of the I-D has been changed to "Description of the RSVP-TE >> Graceful Restart Procedures", in order to wide the scope of this I-D to >> include the single node graceful restart scenario. >> >> Best regards, >> Dan Li > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 08 15:18:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7cGt-0004v2-Au for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:18:15 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7cGo-0003z5-Qk for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:18:15 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7cAN-000HFe-J5 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:11:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [171.71.176.117] (helo=sj-iport-6.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7cAC-000HEe-GH for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:11:26 +0000 Received: from sj-dkim-2.cisco.com ([171.71.179.186]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Jul 2007 12:11:20 -0700 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAHfSkEarR7O6/2dsb2JhbAA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,514,1175497200"; d="scan'208"; a="178507500:sNHT41465763" Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l68JBKVJ002915; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:11:20 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l68JBJka015581; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:11:19 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.187]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:11:19 -0700 Received: from [10.21.126.238] ([10.21.126.238]) by xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:11:18 -0700 Message-ID: <469136D6.6050705@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 12:11:18 -0700 From: Arun Satyanarayana Organization: Cisco Systems User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel , ccamp CC: Dan Li , "Deborah A. Brungard" , "Arun Satyanarayana (asatyana)" Subject: Re: Support for draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt as WG I-D? References: <003601c7b469$e8a239e0$374d460a@china.huawei.com> <008b01c7b67f$4e106e70$c6bea8c0@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <008b01c7b67f$4e106e70$c6bea8c0@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2007 19:11:18.0987 (UTC) FILETIME=[C3A1E9B0:01C7C193] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2498; t=1183921880; x=1184785880; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=asatyana@cisco.com; z=From:=20Arun=20Satyanarayana=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Support=20for=20draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt= 20as=20WG=20I-D? |Sender:=20; bh=j+2LCUZZ2LCNlkNPFLx1PD85nFhk/rGlrz4pWbMmNW8=; b=VuIQR6pbdro8FIOLLCk7YXIQYsLs4u7nZN/8Vucalr0pdP0IRbO6o/R48KtxAosg25290iL1 VBfxdOM027tVrpfU7aJU2dwQ23xkeDl1i+n0aSk9PMhooit4rXQybAQX; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-2; header.From=asatyana@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 I support this I-D as a WG doc. (am a co-author). Thanks, Arun ============================================================== Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > In Prague we found that there was some support for this work, and no > opposition. > > There were questions regarding clarifying that the work does not define > new process or procedures, but explains how existing procedures (i.e. > draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-08.txt) can be applied in a variety of > situations. I think that this revision has included this clarification. > > There was a request to broaden the draft to cover all scenarios (not > just multi-node as before), and this has been done. > > There was concern about whether there was "service provider" interest in > this work. In fact, several of the hands raised to express interest > worked for service providers. But I am not personally convinced that > this Informational work needs strong support from that sector. More to > the point would be support from the vendors who need to agree how they > will operate draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext. > > So, I'd like to ask the WG whether there is support to make this I-D a > WG draft. > If we do, I would like to see it complete quite quickly. It would need: > - review by vendors to make sure it is accurate > - a bit more text on security issues > > Thanks, > Adrian > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Li" > To: "ccamp" > Cc: "Deborah A. Brungard" ; "Farrel, Adrian" > ; "Arun Satyanarayana" > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 2:08 AM > Subject: New draft: draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt > > >> Dear CCAMPers, >> >> We have published a "new" I-D: >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt >> >> This I-D replaces the previous I-D >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/draft-li-ccamp-multinodes-gr-proc-01.txt. >> >> According to the discussion in Prague meeting, we have: >> 1) Changed draft to be Informational. Mainly rewords the draft to make >> sure that it does not give instructions that could be interpreted as >> defining the procedures. >> 2) The title of the I-D has been changed to "Description of the >> RSVP-TE Graceful Restart Procedures", in order to wide the scope of >> this I-D to include the single node graceful restart scenario. >> >> Best regards, >> Dan Li > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 08 22:20:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7irM-0000Oj-9Z for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 22:20:20 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7irL-0001FZ-QE for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 22:20:20 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7iic-0009ZQ-2k for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:11:18 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [129.60.39.102] (helo=tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7iiQ-0009Z2-En for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:11:12 +0000 Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.114]) by tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l692B15g028102 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:11:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2416B20AE29 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:11:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.100]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96F820AE2B for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:11:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.69]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l692B06O025803 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:11:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l692B066018293 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:11:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imf0.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.144]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l692B0J5018290 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:11:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from Panasonic.lab.ntt.co.jp ([129.60.80.55]) by imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l692At4O024537 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:11:00 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20070709105344.0871a610@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> X-Sender: tt043@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J-Jr3 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:04:03 +0900 To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Tomonori TAKEDA Subject: Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 67c1ea29f88502ef6a32ccec927970f0 Hi, A new version of inter-domain recovery analysis I-D have been published. Here are major changes: - Added text on security considerations section - Cleaned up text marked "for further study" (various places) - Added a reference to [PCEP-XRO] - Enhanced text on computing diverse paths sequentially with confidentiality (Section 5.4.1) - Moved "terminology" section into "introduction" section - Removed manageability considerations section - Polished text Authors believe the document is now completed and ready for WG last call. Thanks, Tomonori >To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:15:01 -0400 >X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) >X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be >Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org >Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt >X-BeenThere: i-d-announce@ietf.org >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org >List-Id: i-d-announce.ietf.org >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >X-Junkmail: UCE(35) >X-Junkmail-Status: score=35/10, host=sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp >X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: >score=suspect(0),refid=str=0001.0A090207.468E8745.0129,ss=2,fgs=0,ip=156.154.16.145,so=2007-03-13 >10:31:19,dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. >This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane >Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Analysis of Inter-domain Label Switched Path (LSP) Recovery > Author(s) : T. Takeda, et al. > Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt > Pages : 23 > Date : 2007-7-6 > >This document analyzes various schemes to realize Multiprotocol Label > Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Label Switched Path > (LSP) recovery in multi-domain networks based on the existing > framework for multi-domain LSPs. > > The main focus for this document is on establishing end-to-end > diverse Traffic Engineering (TE) LSPs in multi-domain networks. It > presents various diverse LSP setup schemes based on existing > functional elements. > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt > >To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to >i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of >the message. >You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce >to change your subscription settings. > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After >logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then >"get draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt". > >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > >Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. >In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt". > >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > >Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >Internet-Draft. > >Content-Type: text/plain >Content-ID: <2007-7-6134934.I-D@ietf.org> > >ENCODING mime >FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt > > > >_______________________________________________ >I-D-Announce mailing list >I-D-Announce@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce From irnd0clk@tenethealth.com Mon Jul 09 03:16:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7nTk-0004G3-Uh for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 03:16:16 -0400 Received: from [41.223.248.160] (helo=pkbuozd) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7nTk-0006so-BM for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 03:16:16 -0400 To: From: "Santana Genevie" Subject: Men's Sexual Health Pill from $1.50 per pill, Pain Relief, Anti-Anxiety/Sleep lx Message-ID: <1963b74969.18585p25550247@tenethealth.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 08:16:13 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Check out our Specials! 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Men's Sexual Health :Cia|lisViagra Anti-Anxiety/Sleep :AmbiemValiumAtivanXanax Pain Relief :CelebrexSoma Weight__Loss :PhenterminMeridia Anti-Cholesterol & Anti-Depressant & Anti-Acid http://bjju.lyreimburses.com times forty intelligent? towards mother reference follow, From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 09 03:45:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7nw9-0007Vf-8o for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 03:45:37 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7nw3-0006VX-E4 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 03:45:37 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7nmP-000DQ2-7n for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 07:35:33 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [129.60.39.102] (helo=tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7nmD-000DOA-9l for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 07:35:27 +0000 Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.114]) by tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l697ZJL8008560; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:35:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A4A20AE2A; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:35:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.100]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7218A20AE2E; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:35:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.69]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l697ZHrk004035; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:35:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l697ZHwL014424; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:35:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imf0.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.144]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l697ZHXd014421; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:35:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from Panasonic.lab.ntt.co.jp ([129.60.80.55]) by imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l697ZDhU000954; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:35:17 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20070709142721.08632eb0@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> X-Sender: tt043@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J-Jr3 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:35:04 +0900 To: Meral Shirazipour From: Tomonori TAKEDA Subject: Re: Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org In-Reply-To: <1183954057.4691b4894b96a@www.imp.polymtl.ca> References: <6.0.0.20.2.20070709105344.0871a610@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> <1183954057.4691b4894b96a@www.imp.polymtl.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 17e5edc4dfd335965c1d21372171c01c Hi Meral, Thanks for you comments. I copied CCAMP list here for sharing information. Please see in-line. At 13:07 07/07/09, Meral Shirazipour wrote: >Dear Tomonori, > I just finished reading the draft. Below I have a few comments/suggestions, >mainly regarding typos and clarity. > >Warm Regards, >Meral > >[Page 2/16] >5.4 Inter-domain Collaborate Path Computation....................16 > >Maybe Collaborative would be better?! Thanks. >[Page 4] >section 1.2 Domain >"In such a scenarios,..." > >Should be "In such scenarios" or "In such a scenario" Thanks. >section 1.3 Document Scope , third paragraph >"which can advantageously used" >Should be "which can advantageously be used" Thanks. >[Page 6/7] >"Figure 2: Mesh Connectivity" should be on page 6 OK. >[Page 9] >"An example of such a scheme is Backward Recursive Pause Computation (BRPC) >[brpc]" > >"Pause" should be replaced by "Path" Thanks. >[Page 20] >[brpc]: >A Backward Recursive PCE-based Computation (BRPC) procedure to compute >shortest inter-domain Traffic Engineering Label Switched Paths > >Path with S Thanks. >[Page 12] >first paragraph:"This scheme cannot guarantee to establish diverse LSPs (even if >they could exist) because the first LSP is established without consideration of >the need for a diverse recovery LSP. Crankback [crankback] may be used in >combination with this scheme in order to improve the possibility of successful >diverse LSP setup." > >How can crankback on the protection LSP help if the problem is the already >established working LSP ?! There are several causes why the recovery LSP can not be computed. In one case, the recovery LSP can not be computed because the working LSP is blocking (there is no way). In another case, the recovery LSP can not be computed because the bad border node is selected, but crankback can fix this. We are not saying that the first case can be fixed by crankback. Thanks, Tomonori > > > > > > >Selon Tomonori TAKEDA : > >> Hi, >> >> A new version of inter-domain recovery analysis I-D have been published. >> >> Here are major changes: >> - Added text on security considerations section >> - Cleaned up text marked "for further study" (various places) >> - Added a reference to [PCEP-XRO] >> - Enhanced text on computing diverse paths sequentially with confidentiality >> (Section 5.4.1) >> - Moved "terminology" section into "introduction" section >> - Removed manageability considerations section >> - Polished text >> >> Authors believe the document is now completed and ready for WG last call. >> >> Thanks, >> Tomonori >> >> >To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> >From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >> >Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:15:01 -0400 >> >X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) >> >X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be >> >Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org >> >Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt >> >X-BeenThere: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >> >Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> >List-Id: i-d-announce.ietf.org >> >List-Unsubscribe: >> >>, >> >List-Archive: >> >List-Post: >> >List-Help: >> >List-Subscribe: >> >>, >> >X-Junkmail: UCE(35) >> >X-Junkmail-Status: score=35/10, host=sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp >> >X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: >> >>score=suspect(0),refid=str=0001.0A090207.468E8745.0129,ss=2,fgs=0,ip=156.154.16.145,so=2007-03-13 >> >> >10:31:19,dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 >> > >> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> >directories. >> >This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane >> >Working Group of the IETF. >> > >> > Title : Analysis of Inter-domain Label Switched Path (LSP) Recovery >> > Author(s) : T. Takeda, et al. >> > Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt >> > Pages : 23 >> > Date : 2007-7-6 >> > >> >This document analyzes various schemes to realize Multiprotocol Label >> > Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Label Switched Path >> > (LSP) recovery in multi-domain networks based on the existing >> > framework for multi-domain LSPs. >> > >> > The main focus for this document is on establishing end-to-end >> > diverse Traffic Engineering (TE) LSPs in multi-domain networks. It >> > presents various diverse LSP setup schemes based on existing >> > functional elements. >> > >> >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt >> > >> >To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to >> >i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of >> >the message. >> >You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce >> >to change your subscription settings. >> > >> >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >> >username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After >> >logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then >> >"get draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt". >> > >> >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >> >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> >or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> > >> >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >> > >> >Send a message to: >> > mailserv@ietf.org. >> >In the body type: >> > "FILE >> /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt". >> > >> >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >> > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >> > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >> > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >> > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers >> > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >> > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >> > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >> > how to manipulate these messages. >> > >> >Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> >implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> >Internet-Draft. >> > >> >Content-Type: text/plain >> >Content-ID: <2007-7-6134934.I-D@ietf.org> >> > >> >ENCODING mime >> >FILE >> /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt >> > >> > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >I-D-Announce mailing list >> >I-D-Announce@ietf.org >> >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce >> >> >> >> From tpkg.com@iglesiadelmar.com Mon Jul 09 05:38:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7ph5-0002UW-Js for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 05:38:12 -0400 Received: from ppp5718.hakata01.bbiq.jp ([210.203.247.130] helo=ystnonis) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7ph4-0001aO-Fj for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 05:38:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c7c20c$d1498180$0100007f@ulxktac> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:37:34 +0900 From: "Daniel Kelly" To: Subject: Corel Draw Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.2100 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 OEM software means: no DVD/CD, no packing case, no booklets and no overhead cost! 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But you didnt tell him? N Of course he cares for you. Ma No, I dont think so. Ramsey so From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 09 07:28:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7rQ8-00022r-AK for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 07:28:48 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7rQ7-0004LA-Oa for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 07:28:48 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7rIq-0009Y7-7n for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:21:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [129.60.39.102] (helo=tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7rIe-0009XS-EZ for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:21:10 +0000 Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.114]) by tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l69BL0IV013191; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:21:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C14E20AE2B; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:21:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.100]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E714A20AE29; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:20:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from dmailsv1.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp (dmailsv1.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.53.14]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l69BKx7h029862; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:20:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from mailsv04.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp by dmailsv1.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/dmailsv-1.6) with ESMTP id l69BKwDU007466; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:20:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost by mailsv04.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.14.1/Lab-1.7) with ESMTP id l69BKvNo025453; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:20:58 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20070709200645.05b4d730@mailsv4.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp> X-Sender: wi002@mailsv4.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J-Jr3 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:21:58 +0900 To: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" , "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" , From: Wataru Imajuku Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder In-Reply-To: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BD9E6@esealmw110.eemea.er icsson.se> References: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604B253BC@FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr> <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BD9E6@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b045c2b078f76b9f842d469de8a32de3 Hi, Diego and Julien "OEO transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 $B_(Blambda 2." I think this device should be advertised as lambda switch capable, if the optical signals sent from this transponder are directily connectied to WDM networks (such as ROADM ring or transparent OXCs). But, it is not problem this interface is advertised as fiber switch capable, if the optical signal send from the transponder is terminated by electrical reciever in next hop node. Perhaps, if we properly incorporate this case into the GMPLS frame work, I think we need the concept of "colored TE-link" and "colorless TE-link" even to GMPLS control plane. In colorled TE-Link, the switching capability in both end take care the color of optical signal even even if number of optical signal in the colered TE-link is unity. I think we need updated drafts describing photonic networks with consideration of recent progress of optical transport technologies. > Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the lambda switching is what I$BCW(Be called spatial switching that is lambda1 portA $B_(Blambda1 portB what is not clear to me is how can be advertised an OEO transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 $B_(Blambda 2. At 15:39 07/07/05, Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote: >Hi Julien, > > Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the lambda switching is what I$BCW(Be called spatial switching that is lambda1 portA $B_(Blambda1 portB what is not clear to me is how can be advertised an OEO transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 $B_(Blambda 2. > >Adrian? Deb? Anyone else? > >BR > >Diego > >-----Original Message----- >From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com] >Sent: mercoled$Bw(B4 luglio 2007 18.47 >To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org >Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder > >Hi Diego. > >I believe we should refer to the Holly RFC 3945, chapter 1, verse 2: > >- "Lambda Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of an *individual wavelength*" [or a "group of wavelengths"], meaning that you manipulate values of wavelengths (as AU-4 numbers [or AU-4 ranges] from an SDH portA to SDH portB), like in a ROADM; > >- "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of a single or multiple *fibers*", meaning *spatial switching* where you don't consider the type of signal that ports convey (could be anything like a black and white signal, a wavelength, a WDM multiplex, some optical packets...), like in a OOO PXC. > >To stick with strict terminolgy: lambda = wavelength = (speedOfLight / frequency) > >So if you need to do "frequency switching", then it is the so called "lambda switching". :-) > >Anyway, this is my understanding, so if I'm wrong or if it's a vocabulary issue because you find that terms are inappropriate, then we'd better ask father Adrian and sister Deborah. > >Cheers, > >Julien > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) [mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com] > >Hi Julien, > > Actually not the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a single lambda I didn't but the mux/demux In the picture sorry. > >The point I failed to illustrate is the ambiguity of the term "Lambda Switch Capable" given that there two possible ways to switch a lambda. > >The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda1 portB) this is the way an all optical switch works and this why there is the lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks. > >The second one is the frequency switching: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 portA) this switching can be done via a transponder (OEO) device. > >Of course is possible to mix the two switching having (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 portB) > >My impression is that the definition "Lambda Switch Capable" refers to the spatial switching and thus I don't know how to model the fact that after/before a photonic matrix I have a transponder. > >I hope I've made my question clearer. > >Best Regards > >Diego > >-----Original Message----- > >From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com] > >Sent: marted$Bw(B3 luglio 2007 19.21 > >To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org > >Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder > >Hi Diego. > >If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself is a PXC that > >has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you add > >lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you or > >anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card or in > >a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to work > >on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port B)]. As a > >result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which is > >"Lambda Switch Capable". > >If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your "lambda > >swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels aren't > >wavelengths but ports. > >But maybe I didn't get your actual issue. > >My 2 cents, > >Julien > >________________________________ > >From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On > >Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) > >Hi all, > > I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. > > > > > > > > +-----------------+ > > | |-------+ > > | | OEO | > > | Lambda |-------+ > > | Switch | > > | | > > | | > > +-----------------+ > > > > > >The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the > >interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda > >frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability' > >the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> > >(lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO > >transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to > >advertise? > > > >BR > >Diego > > > >Diego Caviglia > >Product Line ON BBN > >PA Broadband BNET > > > >Marconi S.p.A > >Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy > >Via Anagnina,203 > >0018, Roma , Italy > >www.ericsson.com <http://www.ericsson.com/> > > > >Office: +39 010 600 3736 > >Fax: +39 010 600 3493 > >Mobile: +39 335 7181762 > >Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com > >This communication is confidential and intended solely for the > >addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution > >is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in > >error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and > >delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. > >E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, > >interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only > >send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such > >corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any > >consequences thereof. > > ------------------------------------- Wataru Imajuku@NTT Network Innovation Labs TEL: +81-46-859-4315 FAX: +81-46-859-5541 From luwp@toolsofministry.com Mon Jul 09 10:01:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7toJ-00005o-8x for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:01:55 -0400 Received: from 216.39.ultimate-int.uia.net ([66.146.39.216]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7to3-0008Ct-Jl for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:01:55 -0400 Received: (qmail 19146 invoked from network); Mon, 9 Jul 2007 07:01:30 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO tiy) (82.98.238.206) by 216.39.ultimate-int.uia.net with SMTP; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 07:01:30 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 07:01:30 -0700 To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org From: "Abuse Team Robot" Reply-to: luwp@toolsofministry.com Subject: Worm Alert! 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From error3@a-haha.com Mon Jul 09 10:09:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7tvT-0000xB-IJ for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:09:19 -0400 Received: from [124.105.60.82] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7tvP-0000An-2w for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:09:19 -0400 Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 500) id 9291635D529; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:07:20 +0900 (JST) To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCIiFLY0ZgJCskaSRORHMwRiRHJDkhehsoQg==?= From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?TUFOQQ==?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20070709110721.9291635D529@localhost.localdomain> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:07:20 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 $BKcF`$H$$$$$^$9!#=i$a$^$7$F(B!(^^)! $B5.J}$H!"5U1g=u8r:]$7$?$/$FO"Mm$r$7$^$7$?!#;d$OK\5$$G5.J}$H4X78$r;}$A$?$$$H;W$C$F$$$k$N$G!"OC$@$1$G$bJ9$$$FD:$1$k$H$&$l$7$$$G$9"v"v(B $B5U1g=u$H$O6qBNE*$K$$$&$H;d$HDj4|E*$K2q$C$FD:$/Be$o$j$K;d$,5.J}$X$*6b$r$*;YJ'$$$9$k$H$$$&;v$J$N$G$9!#l$d;v>p$b$"$j!"CQ$:$+$7$J$,$i!"$^$H$b$K8r:]$G$-$kCK@-$,$$$J$$$N$G$9(B(-_-;)$B$=$NBe$o$j!"3d$j@Z$C$?7A$G2q$($kCK@-$,M_$7$$!D$H$$$&$N$,;d$N4uK>$G$9!#$3$&$$$&8r:]$G2q$C$F$b$i$&;v$OL5M}$G$9$+!)$^$@2q$C$F$b$$$J$$$N$K!"$$$-$J$j$3$s$J8@MU$,=P$F$/$k$H$OA[A|$b$7$J$+$C$?$N$G$O$J$$$G$7$g$&$+!):#2s$N8r:]$K4X$7$F$N7kO@$O$H$b$+$/!"6a67$@$1$G$b:G=i$KCN$i$;$FD:$1$l$P4r$7$$$G$9!#(B From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 09 10:44:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7uTZ-000742-7G for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:44:33 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7uTY-0000oG-Kj for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:44:33 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7uGf-0007MM-9j for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:31:13 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [132.207.4.11] (helo=smtp.polymtl.ca) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7uGT-0007KV-1d for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:31:07 +0000 Received: from localhost (imp-4-1.polymtl.ca [132.207.4.76]) by smtp.polymtl.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l69EUuRL024093; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:30:57 -0400 Received: from chaplin.larim.polymtl.ca (chaplin.larim.polymtl.ca [132.207.67.80]) by www.imp.polymtl.ca (IMP) with HTTP for ; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:30:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1183991458.469246a233457@www.imp.polymtl.ca> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:30:58 -0400 From: Meral Shirazipour To: Tomonori TAKEDA Cc: "ccamp@ops.ietf.org" Subject: Re: Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt References: <6.0.0.20.2.20070709105344.0871a610@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> <1183954057.4691b4894b96a@www.imp.polymtl.ca> <6.0.0.20.2.20070709142721.08632eb0@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.20.2.20070709142721.08632eb0@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.3 X-Originating-IP: 132.207.67.80 X-Poly-FromMTA: (imp-4-1.polymtl.ca [132.207.4.76]) at Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:30:56 +0000 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bfe538a859d88717fa3c8a6377d62f90 Dear Tomonori, Thank you for the explanation: ---------- >[Page 12] >first paragraph:"This scheme cannot guarantee to establish diverse LSPs (even >if they could exist) because the first LSP is established without >consideration of the need for a diverse recovery LSP. Crankback [crankback] >may be used in combination with this scheme in order to improve the >possibility of successful diverse LSP setup." >How can crankback on the protection LSP help if the problem is the already >established working LSP ?! There are several causes why the recovery LSP can not be computed. In one case, the recovery LSP can not be computed because the working LSP is blocking (there is no way). In another case, the recovery LSP can not be computed because the bad border node is selected, but crankback can fix this. We are not saying that the first case can be fixed by crankback. ---------- Just to make sure that I understood well, crankback is used when the entity that determined the diverse recovery LSP had only access to an out of date information that did not include the recently deployed working LSP ? Thanks again for taking the time... Warm Regards, Meral Selon Tomonori TAKEDA : > Hi Meral, > > Thanks for you comments. I copied CCAMP list here for sharing information. > > Please see in-line. > > At 13:07 07/07/09, Meral Shirazipour wrote: > >Dear Tomonori, > > I just finished reading the draft. Below I have a few > comments/suggestions, > >mainly regarding typos and clarity. > > > >Warm Regards, > >Meral > > > >[Page 2/16] > >5.4 Inter-domain Collaborate Path Computation....................16 > > > >Maybe Collaborative would be better?! > > Thanks. > > >[Page 4] > >section 1.2 Domain > >"In such a scenarios,..." > > > >Should be "In such scenarios" or "In such a scenario" > > Thanks. > > >section 1.3 Document Scope , third paragraph > >"which can advantageously used" > >Should be "which can advantageously be used" > > Thanks. > > >[Page 6/7] > >"Figure 2: Mesh Connectivity" should be on page 6 > > OK. > > >[Page 9] > >"An example of such a scheme is Backward Recursive Pause Computation (BRPC) > >[brpc]" > > > >"Pause" should be replaced by "Path" > > Thanks. > > >[Page 20] > >[brpc]: > >A Backward Recursive PCE-based Computation (BRPC) procedure to compute > >shortest inter-domain Traffic Engineering Label Switched Paths > > > >Path with S > > Thanks. > > >[Page 12] > >first paragraph:"This scheme cannot guarantee to establish diverse LSPs > (even if > >they could exist) because the first LSP is established without > consideration of > >the need for a diverse recovery LSP. Crankback [crankback] may be used in > >combination with this scheme in order to improve the possibility of > successful > >diverse LSP setup." > > > >How can crankback on the protection LSP help if the problem is the already > >established working LSP ?! > > There are several causes why the recovery LSP can not be computed. In one > case, the recovery LSP can not be computed because the working LSP is > blocking (there is no way). In another case, the recovery LSP can not be > computed because the bad border node is selected, but crankback can fix > this. We are not saying that the first case can be fixed by crankback. > > Thanks, > Tomonori > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Selon Tomonori TAKEDA : > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> A new version of inter-domain recovery analysis I-D have been published. > >> > >> Here are major changes: > >> - Added text on security considerations section > >> - Cleaned up text marked "for further study" (various places) > >> - Added a reference to [PCEP-XRO] > >> - Enhanced text on computing diverse paths sequentially with > confidentiality > >> (Section 5.4.1) > >> - Moved "terminology" section into "introduction" section > >> - Removed manageability considerations section > >> - Polished text > >> > >> Authors believe the document is now completed and ready for WG last call. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Tomonori > >> > >> >To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > >> >From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > >> >Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:15:01 -0400 > >> >X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) > >> >X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be > >> >Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > >> >Subject: I-D > ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt > >> >X-BeenThere: i-d-announce@ietf.org > >> >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 > >> >Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org > >> >List-Id: i-d-announce.ietf.org > >> >List-Unsubscribe: > >> > >>, > >> >List-Archive: > >> >List-Post: > >> >List-Help: > >> >List-Subscribe: > >> > >>, > >> >X-Junkmail: UCE(35) > >> >X-Junkmail-Status: score=35/10, host=sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp > >> >X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: > >> > >>score=suspect(0),refid=str=0001.0A090207.468E8745.0129,ss=2,fgs=0,ip=156.154.16.145,so=2007-03-13 > >> > >> >10:31:19,dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 > >> > > >> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > >> >directories. > >> >This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane > >> >Working Group of the IETF. > >> > > >> > Title : Analysis of Inter-domain Label Switched Path (LSP) Recovery > >> > Author(s) : T. Takeda, et al. > >> > Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt > >> > Pages : 23 > >> > Date : 2007-7-6 > >> > > >> >This document analyzes various schemes to realize Multiprotocol Label > >> > Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Label Switched Path > >> > (LSP) recovery in multi-domain networks based on the existing > >> > framework for multi-domain LSPs. > >> > > >> > The main focus for this document is on establishing end-to-end > >> > diverse Traffic Engineering (TE) LSPs in multi-domain networks. It > >> > presents various diverse LSP setup schemes based on existing > >> > functional elements. > >> > > >> >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > >> > >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt > >> > > >> >To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > >> >i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > >> >the message. > >> >You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > >> >to change your subscription settings. > >> > > >> >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > >> >username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > >> >logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > >> >"get draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt". > >> > > >> >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > >> >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > >> >or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > >> > > >> >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > >> > > >> >Send a message to: > >> > mailserv@ietf.org. > >> >In the body type: > >> > "FILE > >> /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt". > >> > > >> >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > >> > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > >> > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > >> > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > >> > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > >> > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > >> > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > >> > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > >> > how to manipulate these messages. > >> > > >> >Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > >> >implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > >> >Internet-Draft. > >> > > >> >Content-Type: text/plain > >> >Content-ID: <2007-7-6134934.I-D@ietf.org> > >> > > >> >ENCODING mime > >> >FILE > >> /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >I-D-Announce mailing list > >> >I-D-Announce@ietf.org > >> >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > From zorba@ankinlaw.com Mon Jul 09 11:53:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7vY7-0005UE-7u; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:53:19 -0400 Received: from 219.red-83-44-12.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([83.44.12.219]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7vXz-0003Vn-RV; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:53:19 -0400 Received: from [83.44.12.219] by mail.ankinlaw.com; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:53:06 -0100 Message-ID: <01c7c241$3ddc50a0$db0c2c53@zorba> From: "Santos Hurt" To: Subject: buy now 100mg x 10 pills US $ 7.00 Per Pill Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:53:06 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 $59.95 buy now 50mg x 10 pills http://www.windwave.hk From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 09 12:27:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7w4q-00017k-Sb for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:27:08 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7w4q-0003dh-B5 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:27:08 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7vwB-000M44-KS for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:18:11 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [64.208.49.27] (helo=smail5.alcatel.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7vvz-000M1m-Nq for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:18:05 +0000 Received: from FRVELSBHS07.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs07.ad2.ad.alcatel.com [155.132.6.79]) by smail5.alcatel.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/ICT) with ESMTP id l69GFtIb017830; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 18:15:55 +0200 Received: from FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com ([155.132.6.52]) by FRVELSBHS07.ad2.ad.alcatel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Mon, 9 Jul 2007 18:17:42 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 18:17:42 +0200 Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E3809FCEDB@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Follow-up on comments on draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt Thread-Index: Ace/Iv/wATkVETcSTT+CAQmeajDxfgBrSD/wAFqvezAAAaANEA== From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Igor Bryskin" , "Zafar Ali $zali$" , "Lou Berger" , "Igor Bryskin" , Cc: "Adrian Farrel" , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , "Hassan Sheikh $hassans$" , "Tomohiro Otani" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2007 16:17:42.0675 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD709630:01C7C244] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 155.132.188.13 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2a76bcd37b1c8a21336eb0a1ea6bbf48 =20 sorry but we don't discuss about any over Ethernet here=20 but between two IP/MPLS LSR =20 hence, what is different here from two LSRs interconnected=20 by an Ethernet link over X ? zafar can you clarify this point ? because from what i=20 read in your draft it is because the address to be resolved creates an issue but why should that be different from=20 what you see today between two Ethernet hosts connected back-to-back ? -d. =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]=20 > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 5:46 PM > To: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri; Zafar Ali (zali); Lou Berger; Igor=20 > Bryskin; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > (hassans); Tomohiro Otani > Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on=20 > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt >=20 > Zafar, >=20 > Let's look at your situation with eyes of an ITU-T folk :=3D) >=20 > Your client layer is IP, and your server layer (the one that provides > connectivity between IP routers) is Ethernet. This means that=20 > a link in > IP layer is provided by a connection in Ethernet layer. The MAC header > you need to encapsulate your IP CI is a label of the Ethernet=20 > connection > and should be learned via signaling before the connection is=20 > used. Note > also that IP layer is not the only client of Ethernet, for example, > Ethernet-in-Ethernet is quite possible, so you can't rely on protocols > like ARP.=20 >=20 > Cheers, > Igor >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On > Behalf Of PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 3:54 PM > To: Zafar Ali (zali); Lou Berger; Igor Bryskin; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > (hassans); > Tomohiro Otani > Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt >=20 > zafar >=20 > it is the other way around, because you have different subnets you can > not make use of existing mechanisms >=20 > "The solution we are pushing for is that we need a mechanism=20 > that allows > us to resolve ARP directly for the GMPLS tunnel ip addresses. This > removes any dependency on the underlying Ethernet links or the > addressing scheme that is used for TE links i.e. numbered links in the > same or different subnets." >=20 > hence the first question is why shall this be different ? >=20 > -d. >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali) > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 6:39 PM > > To: Lou Berger; Igor Bryskin; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > > (hassans); Tomohiro Otani > > Subject: Follow-up on comments on=20 > > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt > >=20 > > Hi Lou, Igor, ccamper, et al,=20 > > =20 > > Here is a follow-up on our AI from last WG meeting on the=20 > > comments received on=20 > > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt. We=20 > > are planning to revise the document based on your feedback.=20 > > Please advise if you have any further comment/ suggestion.=20 > > =20 > > The issue is focused around the use of the GMPLS tunnel as a=20 > > point-to-point link using Ethernet TE links. Unlike pos links=20 > > where a L2 adjacency resolution is not required, the Ethernet=20 > > links require that the ARP be resolved (aka Layer 2 MAC=20 > > address) before any forwarding works on this link. It is not=20 > > a case of broken implementation. We (router vendors) cannot=20 > > work around ARP. What we need to do is to provide clear=20 > > direction or recommendation for vendors on how to ARP for=20 > > GMPLS controlled Ethernet interfaces. Or else, all vendors=20 > > will implement whatever ARP mechanism works for them in terms=20 > > of forwarding. E.g., there is an interop issue between=20 > > Juniper and Cisco (from a fwding perspective) when Ethernet=20 > > links are used (Both do ARP). We had to find workarounds to=20 > > make things work (at ISO Core and in private testing). The=20 > > same will be the case between Cisco, Juniper and other vendors.=20 > > =20 > > The solution we are pushing for is that we need a mechanism=20 > > that allows us to resolve ARP directly for the GMPLS tunnel=20 > > ip addresses. This removes any dependency on the underlying=20 > > Ethernet links or the addressing scheme that is used for TE=20 > > links i.e. numbered links in the same or different subnets. > > =20 > > In the following, we describe the situation with numbered=20 > > Ethernet links and Unnumbered Ethernet links (the assumption=20 > > is that the GMPLS tunnel is a ipv4 numbered link in both instances). > > =20 > > Consider the scenario=20 > > =20 > > <----------------------------------------------GMPLS=20 > > Tunnel------------------------------------------> > > =20 > > RTR1 <------GE data link/TE link -----> OXC <------ GE data=20 > > link/TE link -----> RTR2 > > segment # 1 =20 > > segment # 2 > > There are two instance to consider: > > =20 > > (a) When numbered TE links are used but segment # 1 and=20 > > segment # 2 are in different subnets (valid scenario) > > In this situation we really have no way of resolving ARP=20 > > using the addresses of the underlying TE link Ethernet links=20 > > w/o using static ARP entries. The issue is that the subnets=20 > > are different so the ARP request received by RTR2 from RTR1=20 > > will be rejected as it is not known to RTR2 and vice versa.=20 > > Instead, if the ARP request if for the GMPLS tunnel instead=20 > > then there should be no problem as the GMPLS tunnel is p-p=20 > > link with IPV4 addresses in the same subnet. > > Verdict: If we have the ARP resolution mechanism tied in to=20 > > the GMPLS tunnel interfaces addresses then there is no issue=20 > > or dependency=20 > > =20 > > (a) When numbered TE links are used and segment # 1 and=20 > > segment # 2 are in the same subnet.=20 > > In this setup the GMPLS Tunnel can inherit and use the=20 > > ethernet link address for ARP resolution and there is no=20 > > issue as both segments are in the same subnet. The problem in=20 > > this situation is that we need to resolve the ARP for the=20 > > ipv4 addresses for the GMPLS tunnel (considered as a p-p=20 > > link) as opposed to inherit it from the underlying Ethernet=20 > TE links. > > Verdict: In this situation the ARP resolution mechanism=20 > > should be developed for the GMPLS tunnel address. > > =20 > > (c) The third scenario is when the GMPLS tunnel is numbered=20 > > but the TE links are Unnumbered. > > In this case we are again faced with the same issue of=20 > > L2 ARP adjacency resolution between RTR1 and RTR2. RTR2 will=20 > > reject the ARP request for RTR1 when it does not find the=20 > > Unnumbered address (used by RTR1) in its FWDing database.=20 > > This issue would not be encountered if we were resolving the=20 > > ARP on GMPLS tunnel address. > > Verdict: ARP resolution mechanism is required for GMPLS tunnel. > > =20 > > (d) We also need to make sure that when the tunnel-id is=20 > > unnum, vendor implementation honor ARP request using loopback=20 > > addresses. We have also faced interop issue in this scenario.=20 > > =20 > > Thanks > > =20 > > Regards... Hassan and Zafar=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 09 12:38:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7wFw-000457-P7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:38:36 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7wFr-0004kO-Kf for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:38:36 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7w9R-00003b-73 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:31:53 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [66.226.64.2] (helo=pro.abac.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7w9E-000Q0V-He for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:31:46 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-42.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by pro.abac.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l69GVUXc020659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:31:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gregb@grotto-networking.com) Message-ID: <469262E2.7030209@grotto-networking.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:31:30 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wataru Imajuku CC: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" , MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder References: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604B253BC@FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr> <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BD9E6@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> <6.0.0.20.2.20070709200645.05b4d730@mailsv4.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.20.2.20070709200645.05b4d730@mailsv4.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090908040705060501020202" Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9b281509fec590bb711c36d4c3ba4f74 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090908040705060501020202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, concur with Wataru's comments. If you check out some of the optical sub-system/component vendors you'll see ROADMs and switches that are "colored" and "colorless". "Colored" meaning that a wavelength ingress on one port gets mapped to a particular egress port. "Colorless" meaning that we can map an ingress wavelength on one port to an egress port irrespective of color. Hence it seems we've got some problem area "modeling" work. Then we can see about potential representations/solutions. Regards Greg B. Wataru Imajuku wrote: > Hi, Diego and Julien > > "OEO transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 ?lambda 2." > > I think this device should be advertised as lambda switch capable, if the optical signals sent > from this transponder are directily connectied to WDM networks (such as ROADM ring or transparent OXCs). > > But, it is not problem this interface is advertised as fiber switch capable, > if the optical signal send from the transponder is terminated by electrical reciever in next hop node. > > Perhaps, if we properly incorporate this case into the GMPLS frame work, I think > we need the concept of "colored TE-link" and "colorless TE-link" even to GMPLS control plane. > In colorled TE-Link, the switching capability in both end take care the color of optical signal > even even if number of optical signal in the colered TE-link is unity. > > I think we need updated drafts describing photonic networks with consideration of recent progress of > optical transport technologies. > > > >> Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the lambda switching is what I$BCW(Be called spatial switching that is lambda1 portA ?lambda1 portB what is not clear to me is how can be advertised an OEO transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 ?lambda 2. >> > > > > At 15:39 07/07/05, Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote: > > >> Hi Julien, >> >> Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the lambda switching is what I$BCW(Be called spatial switching that is lambda1 portA ?lambda1 portB what is not clear to me is how can be advertised an OEO transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 ?lambda 2. >> >> Adrian? Deb? Anyone else? >> >> BR >> >> Diego >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com] >> Sent: mercoled?4 luglio 2007 18.47 >> To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org >> Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder >> >> Hi Diego. >> >> I believe we should refer to the Holly RFC 3945, chapter 1, verse 2: >> >> - "Lambda Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of an *individual wavelength*" [or a "group of wavelengths"], meaning that you manipulate values of wavelengths (as AU-4 numbers [or AU-4 ranges] from an SDH portA to SDH portB), like in a ROADM; >> >> - "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of a single or multiple *fibers*", meaning *spatial switching* where you don't consider the type of signal that ports convey (could be anything like a black and white signal, a wavelength, a WDM multiplex, some optical packets...), like in a OOO PXC. >> >> To stick with strict terminolgy: lambda = wavelength = (speedOfLight / frequency) >> >> So if you need to do "frequency switching", then it is the so called "lambda switching". :-) >> >> Anyway, this is my understanding, so if I'm wrong or if it's a vocabulary issue because you find that terms are inappropriate, then we'd better ask father Adrian and sister Deborah. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Julien >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) [mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com] >> >> Hi Julien, >> >> Actually not the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a single lambda I didn't but the mux/demux In the picture sorry. >> >> The point I failed to illustrate is the ambiguity of the term "Lambda Switch Capable" given that there two possible ways to switch a lambda. >> >> The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda1 portB) this is the way an all optical switch works and this why there is the lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks. >> >> The second one is the frequency switching: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 portA) this switching can be done via a transponder (OEO) device. >> >> Of course is possible to mix the two switching having (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 portB) >> >> My impression is that the definition "Lambda Switch Capable" refers to the spatial switching and thus I don't know how to model the fact that after/before a photonic matrix I have a transponder. >> >> I hope I've made my question clearer. >> >> Best Regards >> >> Diego >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com] >> >> Sent: marted?3 luglio 2007 19.21 >> >> To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org >> >> Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder >> >> Hi Diego. >> >> If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself is a PXC that >> >> has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you add >> >> lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you or >> >> anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card or in >> >> a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to work >> >> on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port B)]. As a >> >> result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which is >> >> "Lambda Switch Capable". >> >> If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your "lambda >> >> swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels aren't >> >> wavelengths but ports. >> >> But maybe I didn't get your actual issue. >> >> My 2 cents, >> >> Julien >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On >> >> Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) >> >> Hi all, >> >> I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> +-----------------+ >> >> | |-------+ >> >> | | OEO | >> >> | Lambda |-------+ >> >> | Switch | >> >> | | >> >> | | >> >> +-----------------+ >> >> >> >> >> >> The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the >> >> interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda >> >> frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability' >> >> the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> >> >> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO >> >> transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to >> >> advertise? >> >> >> >> BR >> >> Diego >> >> >> >> Diego Caviglia >> >> Product Line ON BBN >> >> PA Broadband BNET >> >> >> >> Marconi S.p.A >> >> Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy >> >> Via Anagnina,203 >> >> 0018, Roma , Italy >> >> www.ericsson.com <http://www.ericsson.com/> >> >> >> >> Office: +39 010 600 3736 >> >> Fax: +39 010 600 3493 >> >> Mobile: +39 335 7181762 >> >> Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com >> >> This communication is confidential and intended solely for the >> >> addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution >> >> is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in >> >> error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and >> >> delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. >> >> E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, >> >> interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only >> >> send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such >> >> corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any >> >> consequences thereof. >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------- > Wataru Imajuku@NTT Network Innovation Labs > TEL: +81-46-859-4315 > FAX: +81-46-859-5541 > > > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------090908040705060501020202 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, concur with Wataru's comments. If you check out some of the optical sub-system/component vendors you'll see ROADMs and switches that are "colored" and "colorless". "Colored" meaning that a wavelength ingress on one port gets mapped to a particular egress port. "Colorless" meaning that we can map an ingress wavelength on one port to an egress port irrespective of color.

Hence it seems we've got some problem area "modeling" work. Then we can see about potential representations/solutions.

Regards

Greg B.

Wataru Imajuku wrote:

Hi, Diego and Julien

 "OEO transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 �lambda 2."

 I think this device should be advertised as lambda switch capable, if the optical signals sent 
from this transponder are directily connectied to WDM networks (such as ROADM ring or transparent OXCs).

 But, it is not problem this interface is advertised as fiber switch capable,
 if the optical signal send from the transponder is terminated by electrical reciever in next hop node.

 Perhaps, if we properly incorporate this case into the GMPLS frame work, I think 
we need the concept of "colored TE-link" and "colorless TE-link" even to GMPLS control plane.
 In colorled TE-Link, the switching capability in both end take care the color of optical signal
even even if number of optical signal in the colered TE-link is unity.

 I think we need updated drafts describing photonic networks with consideration of recent progress of 
optical transport technologies.

         Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the lambda switching is what I$BCW(Be called spatial switching that is lambda1 portA �lambda1 portB what is not clear to me is how can be advertised an OEO transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 �lambda 2.


 

At 15:39 07/07/05, Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote:

Hi Julien,

         Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the lambda switching is what I$BCW(Be called spatial switching that is lambda1 portA �lambda1 portB what is not clear to me is how can be advertised an OEO transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 �lambda 2.

Adrian? Deb? Anyone else?

BR

Diego

-----Original Message-----
From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [<mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com>mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com]
Sent: mercoled�4 luglio 2007 18.47
To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder

Hi Diego.

I believe we should refer to the Holly RFC 3945, chapter 1, verse 2:

- "Lambda Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of an *individual wavelength*" [or a "group of wavelengths"], meaning that you manipulate values of wavelengths (as AU-4 numbers [or AU-4 ranges] from an SDH portA to SDH portB), like in a ROADM;

- "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of a single or multiple *fibers*", meaning *spatial switching* where you don't consider the type of signal that ports convey (could be anything like a black and white signal, a wavelength, a WDM multiplex, some optical packets...), like in a OOO PXC.

To stick with strict terminolgy: lambda = wavelength = (speedOfLight / frequency)

So if you need to do "frequency switching", then it is the so called "lambda switching". :-)

Anyway, this is my understanding, so if I'm wrong or if it's a vocabulary issue because you find that terms are inappropriate, then we'd better ask father Adrian and sister Deborah.

Cheers,

Julien

-----Original Message-----

From: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) [<mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com] 

Hi Julien,

         Actually not the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a single lambda I didn't but the mux/demux In the picture sorry.

The point I failed to illustrate is the ambiguity of the term "Lambda Switch Capable" given that there two possible ways to switch a lambda.  

The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda1 portB) this is the way an all optical switch works and this why there is the lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks.  

The second one is the frequency switching: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 portA) this switching can be done via a transponder (OEO) device.  

Of course is possible to mix the two switching having (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 portB)

My impression is that the definition "Lambda Switch Capable" refers to the spatial switching and thus I don't know how to model the fact that after/before a photonic matrix I have a transponder.  

I hope I've made my question clearer.

Best Regards

Diego

-----Original Message-----

From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [<mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com>mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com] 

Sent: marted�3 luglio 2007 19.21

To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org

Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder

Hi Diego.

If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself is a PXC that

has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you add

lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you or

anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card or in

a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to work

on lambdas anyway  [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port B)]. As a

result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which is

"Lambda Switch Capable".

If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your "lambda

swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels aren't

wavelengths but ports.

But maybe I didn't get your actual issue.

My 2 cents,

Julien

________________________________

From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [<mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org>mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On

Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)

Hi all,

        I've a doubt about how to model the following situation.







     +-----------------+

     |                 |-------+

     |                 | OEO   |

     |     Lambda      |-------+

     |     Switch      |

     |                 |

     |                 |

     +-----------------+

     



The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the

interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda

frequency.  In this case there are two different 'switching capability'

the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) -->

(lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO

transponder.  Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to

advertise?



BR

Diego



Diego Caviglia

Product Line ON BBN

PA Broadband BNET



Marconi S.p.A

Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy

Via Anagnina,203

0018, Roma , Italy

www.ericsson.com <<http://www.ericsson.com/>http://www.ericsson.com/> 



Office:  +39 010 600 3736

Fax: +39 010 600 3493

Mobile: +39 335 7181762

Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com  

This communication is confidential and intended solely for the

addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution

is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in

error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and

delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you.

E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption,

interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only

send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such

corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any

consequences thereof.


-------------------------------------
Wataru Imajuku@NTT Network Innovation Labs
TEL: +81-46-859-4315
FAX: +81-46-859-5541

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

--------------090908040705060501020202-- From ucjo9wcaq@usinternet.com Mon Jul 09 13:18:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7wsd-0003vK-79 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 13:18:35 -0400 Received: from [90.154.233.103] (helo=fakm) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7wsb-0005Zt-E9 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 13:18:35 -0400 To: From: "Scarlett Ryann" Subject: We're #1 OnlinePharmacy, Save up to 80% on your prescription drugs hktuf Message-ID: <6272u03846.4908c38963045@usinternet.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:18:21 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Save up to 80% on your prescription drugs!!! We're #1 OnlinePharmacy. You can buy prescription drugs WITHOUT PRESCRIPTION or buy online prescription drugs without prescription or buy discount prescription drugs WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION. == please click either links below to view what we have to save you 80% == http://kdicb.lyreimburses.com circumstances clear raise your why motor? night books wonder likely, From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 09 14:51:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7yK6-0001oA-Aw for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:51:03 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7yJz-0001Q6-Kh for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:51:02 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7yBG-000EMn-K2 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:41:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [62.23.212.7] (helo=smail6.alcatel.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I7yB1-000EIX-7a for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:41:48 +0000 Received: from FRVELSBHS07.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs07.ad2.ad.alcatel.com [155.132.6.79]) by smail6.alcatel.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/ICT) with ESMTP id l69IdKAh017928; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:39:21 +0200 Received: from FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com ([155.132.6.52]) by FRVELSBHS07.ad2.ad.alcatel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:39:33 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:39:20 +0200 Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E3809FCF13@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Follow-up on comments on draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt Thread-Index: Ace/Iv/wATkVETcSTT+CAQmeajDxfgBrSD/wAFqvezAAAaANEAADKfYgAACtxsA= From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Igor Bryskin" , "Zafar Ali $zali$" , "Lou Berger" , "Igor Bryskin" , Cc: "Adrian Farrel" , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , "Hassan Sheikh $hassans$" , "Tomohiro Otani" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2007 18:39:33.0651 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E607630:01C7C258] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 155.132.188.84 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1e467ff145ef391eb7b594ef62b8301f igor,=20 actually, we have ARP (or ND in case of v6) for address resolution the whole discussion point for me (reading the material from zafar) is that he wants to remove a dependency about IPv4 running over Ethernet that is (by definition not dependent of GMPLS but) resulting from the use of GMPLS to establish the LSP X with GPID =3D Ethernet (Eth over X)=20 now, i am still not sure why zafar doesn't propose the use of "gratuitous ARP" once the Ethernet i/f is up ? thanks, -d. > -----Original Message----- > From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]=20 > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 7:32 PM > To: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri; Zafar Ali (zali); Lou Berger; Igor=20 > Bryskin; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > (hassans); Tomohiro Otani > Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on=20 > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt >=20 > Dimitri, >=20 > What I was saying is that if a client layer IP uses a server layer > Ethernet than the server layer should know what the Layer Information > (LI) overhead to put on client's Adapted Information (AI), I mean this > information belongs to Ethernet, not to IP, and it is not=20 > IP's business > to identify this information. And as you pointed out a pair of IP > routers could be inter-connected by Ethernet trail, while another pair > by SDH trail and it is not IP's business to determine LI in either of > server layers. So, how is it different from what you say? >=20 > Igor >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri > [mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be]=20 > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:18 PM > To: Igor Bryskin; Zafar Ali (zali); Lou Berger; Igor Bryskin; > ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > (hassans); > Tomohiro Otani > Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > sorry but we don't discuss about any over Ethernet here=20 > but between two IP/MPLS LSR =20 >=20 > hence, what is different here from two LSRs interconnected=20 > by an Ethernet link over X ? >=20 > zafar can you clarify this point ? because from what i=20 > read in your draft it is because the address to be resolved > creates an issue but why should that be different from=20 > what you see today between two Ethernet hosts connected > back-to-back ? >=20 > -d. > =20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]=20 > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 5:46 PM > > To: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri; Zafar Ali (zali); Lou Berger; Igor=20 > > Bryskin; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > > (hassans); Tomohiro Otani > > Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on=20 > > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt > >=20 > > Zafar, > >=20 > > Let's look at your situation with eyes of an ITU-T folk :=3D) > >=20 > > Your client layer is IP, and your server layer (the one=20 > that provides > > connectivity between IP routers) is Ethernet. This means that=20 > > a link in > > IP layer is provided by a connection in Ethernet layer. The=20 > MAC header > > you need to encapsulate your IP CI is a label of the Ethernet=20 > > connection > > and should be learned via signaling before the connection is=20 > > used. Note > > also that IP layer is not the only client of Ethernet, for example, > > Ethernet-in-Ethernet is quite possible, so you can't rely=20 > on protocols > > like ARP.=20 > >=20 > > Cheers, > > Igor > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On > > Behalf Of PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 3:54 PM > > To: Zafar Ali (zali); Lou Berger; Igor Bryskin; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > > (hassans); > > Tomohiro Otani > > Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on > > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt > >=20 > > zafar > >=20 > > it is the other way around, because you have different=20 > subnets you can > > not make use of existing mechanisms > >=20 > > "The solution we are pushing for is that we need a mechanism=20 > > that allows > > us to resolve ARP directly for the GMPLS tunnel ip addresses. This > > removes any dependency on the underlying Ethernet links or the > > addressing scheme that is used for TE links i.e. numbered=20 > links in the > > same or different subnets." > >=20 > > hence the first question is why shall this be different ? > >=20 > > -d. > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > > > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali) > > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 6:39 PM > > > To: Lou Berger; Igor Bryskin; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > > > (hassans); Tomohiro Otani > > > Subject: Follow-up on comments on=20 > > > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt > > >=20 > > > Hi Lou, Igor, ccamper, et al,=20 > > > =20 > > > Here is a follow-up on our AI from last WG meeting on the=20 > > > comments received on=20 > > > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt. We=20 > > > are planning to revise the document based on your feedback.=20 > > > Please advise if you have any further comment/ suggestion.=20 > > > =20 > > > The issue is focused around the use of the GMPLS tunnel as a=20 > > > point-to-point link using Ethernet TE links. Unlike pos links=20 > > > where a L2 adjacency resolution is not required, the Ethernet=20 > > > links require that the ARP be resolved (aka Layer 2 MAC=20 > > > address) before any forwarding works on this link. It is not=20 > > > a case of broken implementation. We (router vendors) cannot=20 > > > work around ARP. What we need to do is to provide clear=20 > > > direction or recommendation for vendors on how to ARP for=20 > > > GMPLS controlled Ethernet interfaces. Or else, all vendors=20 > > > will implement whatever ARP mechanism works for them in terms=20 > > > of forwarding. E.g., there is an interop issue between=20 > > > Juniper and Cisco (from a fwding perspective) when Ethernet=20 > > > links are used (Both do ARP). We had to find workarounds to=20 > > > make things work (at ISO Core and in private testing). The=20 > > > same will be the case between Cisco, Juniper and other vendors.=20 > > > =20 > > > The solution we are pushing for is that we need a mechanism=20 > > > that allows us to resolve ARP directly for the GMPLS tunnel=20 > > > ip addresses. This removes any dependency on the underlying=20 > > > Ethernet links or the addressing scheme that is used for TE=20 > > > links i.e. numbered links in the same or different subnets. > > > =20 > > > In the following, we describe the situation with numbered=20 > > > Ethernet links and Unnumbered Ethernet links (the assumption=20 > > > is that the GMPLS tunnel is a ipv4 numbered link in both=20 > instances). > > > =20 > > > Consider the scenario=20 > > > =20 > > > <----------------------------------------------GMPLS=20 > > > Tunnel------------------------------------------> > > > =20 > > > RTR1 <------GE data link/TE link -----> OXC <------ GE data=20 > > > link/TE link -----> RTR2 > > > segment # 1 =20 > > > segment # 2 > > > There are two instance to consider: > > > =20 > > > (a) When numbered TE links are used but segment # 1 and=20 > > > segment # 2 are in different subnets (valid scenario) > > > In this situation we really have no way of resolving ARP=20 > > > using the addresses of the underlying TE link Ethernet links=20 > > > w/o using static ARP entries. The issue is that the subnets=20 > > > are different so the ARP request received by RTR2 from RTR1=20 > > > will be rejected as it is not known to RTR2 and vice versa.=20 > > > Instead, if the ARP request if for the GMPLS tunnel instead=20 > > > then there should be no problem as the GMPLS tunnel is p-p=20 > > > link with IPV4 addresses in the same subnet. > > > Verdict: If we have the ARP resolution mechanism tied in to=20 > > > the GMPLS tunnel interfaces addresses then there is no issue=20 > > > or dependency=20 > > > =20 > > > (a) When numbered TE links are used and segment # 1 and=20 > > > segment # 2 are in the same subnet.=20 > > > In this setup the GMPLS Tunnel can inherit and use the=20 > > > ethernet link address for ARP resolution and there is no=20 > > > issue as both segments are in the same subnet. The problem in=20 > > > this situation is that we need to resolve the ARP for the=20 > > > ipv4 addresses for the GMPLS tunnel (considered as a p-p=20 > > > link) as opposed to inherit it from the underlying Ethernet=20 > > TE links. > > > Verdict: In this situation the ARP resolution mechanism=20 > > > should be developed for the GMPLS tunnel address. > > > =20 > > > (c) The third scenario is when the GMPLS tunnel is numbered=20 > > > but the TE links are Unnumbered. > > > In this case we are again faced with the same issue of=20 > > > L2 ARP adjacency resolution between RTR1 and RTR2. RTR2 will=20 > > > reject the ARP request for RTR1 when it does not find the=20 > > > Unnumbered address (used by RTR1) in its FWDing database.=20 > > > This issue would not be encountered if we were resolving the=20 > > > ARP on GMPLS tunnel address. > > > Verdict: ARP resolution mechanism is required for GMPLS tunnel. > > > =20 > > > (d) We also need to make sure that when the tunnel-id is=20 > > > unnum, vendor implementation honor ARP request using loopback=20 > > > addresses. We have also faced interop issue in this scenario.=20 > > > =20 > > > Thanks > > > =20 > > > Regards... Hassan and Zafar=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 From cxp@hillsbalfour.com Mon Jul 09 15:14:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7yhC-0008EF-2Q for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:14:54 -0400 Received: from [216.230.150.13] (helo=13.150.intelnet.net.gt) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7yh8-0002BR-EF for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:14:54 -0400 Received: from irc ([103.123.37.28]) by 13.150.intelnet.net.gt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 9 Jul 2007 13:14:43 -0600 Message-ID: <46928923.5070105@hillsbalfour.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 13:14:43 -0600 From: Peg Rocha User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: ambassadorial developing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 VPSN WILL MOVE LIKE A COMET AND ITS ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER! 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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 09 17:19:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I80dw-0003p5-Nf for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:19:40 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I80dw-0002TU-6W for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:19:40 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I80Vv-00052O-DT for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:11:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [64.208.49.27] (helo=smail5.alcatel.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I80Vj-00051p-6b for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:11:17 +0000 Received: from FRVELSBHS07.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs07.ad2.ad.alcatel.com [155.132.6.79]) by smail5.alcatel.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/ICT) with ESMTP id l69L9Dc8015003; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:09:13 +0200 Received: from FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com ([155.132.6.52]) by FRVELSBHS07.ad2.ad.alcatel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:11:00 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:10:47 +0200 Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E3809FCF35@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.20.2.20070709105344.0871a610@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt Thread-Index: AcfBzteD35sQEXiCT6OuSZcuBb3BtQAjN7rg From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Tomonori TAKEDA" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2007 21:11:00.0834 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6C28C20:01C7C26D] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 155.132.188.13 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97c820c82c68af374c4e382a80dc5017 tomonori reading through this doc still unclear to me why there is no statement that says (at the end) that the sole issue is due to the fact that ingress node do not see both protecting and working LSPs (by definition of diversity) and therefore across that domain, mechanisms are needed: 1. since the problem is only considered in its linear version and associated protecting and working LSP are are both following the same sequence, one needs to resolve the intra-domain/intra-AS trap issue (at the SRLG/node/ link level) and prevent that that two ingress nodes (of the same domain) do not select the same egress node (of that domain) to reach the next domain for both protecting and working LSP ? 2. when computation is not simultaneous per domain (independently of whether sequentially distributed or centralized) and does not result in strict hops only (implicitly or explcitly), the only thing that remains possible is to condition the first LSP setup with additional constraints during its establishment this would for me streamline this analysis in a protocol independent way (observe that point 2 is totally independent of whether PCEs are used or not) now if a protocol analysis needs to be done it needs to account for call segments in which case and compared to BRPC the discussion would be about sequential computation along the downstream or the upstream (or combination) thanks, -d. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tomonori TAKEDA > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 4:04 AM > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Fwd: I-D=20 > ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt=20 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > A new version of inter-domain recovery analysis I-D have been=20 > published. >=20 > Here are major changes: > - Added text on security considerations section > - Cleaned up text marked "for further study" (various places) > - Added a reference to [PCEP-XRO] > - Enhanced text on computing diverse paths sequentially with=20 > confidentiality > (Section 5.4.1) > - Moved "terminology" section into "introduction" section > - Removed manageability considerations section > - Polished text >=20 > Authors believe the document is now completed and ready for=20 > WG last call. >=20 > Thanks, > Tomonori >=20 > >To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > >From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > >Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:15:01 -0400 > >X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) > >X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be > >Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > >Subject: I-D=20 > ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt > >X-BeenThere: i-d-announce@ietf.org > >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 > >Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org > >List-Id: i-d-announce.ietf.org > >List-Unsubscribe: > =20 > >, :i-d-announce-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe> > >List-Archive: > >List-Post: > >List-Help: > >List-Subscribe: > =20 > >, :i-d-announce-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dsubscribe> > >X-Junkmail: UCE(35) > >X-Junkmail-Status: score=3D35/10, host=3Dsfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp > >X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: > =20 > >score=3Dsuspect(0),refid=3Dstr=3D0001.0A090207.468E8745.0129,ss=3D2,f > gs=3D0,ip=3D156.154.16.145,so=3D2007-03-13=20 >=20 > >10:31:19,dmn=3D5.3.14/2007-05-31 > > > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > >directories. > >This draft is a work item of the Common Control and=20 > Measurement Plane > >Working Group of the IETF. > > > > Title : Analysis of Inter-domain Label=20 > Switched Path (LSP) Recovery > > Author(s) : T. Takeda, et al. > > Filename :=20 > draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt > > Pages : 23 > > Date : 2007-7-6 > > > >This document analyzes various schemes to realize=20 > Multiprotocol Label > > Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Label Switched Path > > (LSP) recovery in multi-domain networks based on the existing > > framework for multi-domain LSPs. > > > > The main focus for this document is on establishing end-to-end > > diverse Traffic Engineering (TE) LSPs in multi-domain=20 > networks. It > > presents various diverse LSP setup schemes based on existing > > functional elements. > > > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > =20 > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-do > main-recovery-analysis-01.txt > > > >To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > >i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in=20 > the body of > >the message. > >You can also visit=20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > >to change your subscription settings. > > > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > >username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > >logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > >"get draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt". > > > >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > >or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > > >Send a message to: > > mailserv@ietf.org. > >In the body type: > > "FILE=20 > /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analys > is-01.txt". > > > >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant=20 > mail readers > > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > > how to manipulate these messages. > > > >Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > >implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > >Internet-Draft. > > > >Content-Type: text/plain > >Content-ID: <2007-7-6134934.I-D@ietf.org> > > > >ENCODING mime > >FILE=20 > /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analys > is-01.txt > > > > > =20 > > main-recovery-analysis-01.txt> > >_______________________________________________ > >I-D-Announce mailing list > >I-D-Announce@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 09 17:37:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I80v3-0007wS-Uk for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:37:22 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I80v3-0002ud-HE for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:37:21 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I80pX-0007AZ-MG for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:31:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [213.46.255.22] (helo=viefep17-int.chello.at) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I80pD-00076r-K0 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:31:25 +0000 Received: from [192.168.17.2] (really [62.195.168.62]) by viefep14-int.chello.at (InterMail vM.7.08.02.00 201-2186-121-20061213) with ESMTP id <20070709152717.EXUV9412.viefep14-int.chello.at@[192.168.17.2]>; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:27:17 +0200 Message-ID: <469253D4.9070407@chello.nl> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:27:16 +0200 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: Dan Li , ccamp , "Deborah A. Brungard" Subject: Re: Support for draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt as WG I-D? References: <003601c7b469$e8a239e0$374d460a@china.huawei.com> <008b01c7b67f$4e106e70$c6bea8c0@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <008b01c7b67f$4e106e70$c6bea8c0@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a Hi, I support this I-D to become WG-draft. Cheers, Huub. ===================== Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > In Prague we found that there was some support for this work, and no > opposition. > > There were questions regarding clarifying that the work does not define > new process or procedures, but explains how existing procedures (i.e. > draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-08.txt) can be applied in a variety of > situations. I think that this revision has included this clarification. > > There was a request to broaden the draft to cover all scenarios (not > just multi-node as before), and this has been done. > > There was concern about whether there was "service provider" interest in > this work. In fact, several of the hands raised to express interest > worked for service providers. But I am not personally convinced that > this Informational work needs strong support from that sector. More to > the point would be support from the vendors who need to agree how they > will operate draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext. > > So, I'd like to ask the WG whether there is support to make this I-D a > WG draft. > If we do, I would like to see it complete quite quickly. It would need: > - review by vendors to make sure it is accurate > - a bit more text on security issues > > Thanks, > Adrian > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Li" > To: "ccamp" > Cc: "Deborah A. Brungard" ; "Farrel, Adrian" > ; "Arun Satyanarayana" > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 2:08 AM > Subject: New draft: draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt > > >> Dear CCAMPers, >> >> We have published a "new" I-D: >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt >> >> This I-D replaces the previous I-D >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/draft-li-ccamp-multinodes-gr-proc-01.txt. >> >> According to the discussion in Prague meeting, we have: >> 1) Changed draft to be Informational. Mainly rewords the draft to make >> sure that it does not give instructions that could be interpreted as >> defining the procedures. >> 2) The title of the I-D has been changed to "Description of the >> RSVP-TE Graceful Restart Procedures", in order to wide the scope of >> this I-D to include the single node graceful restart scenario. >> >> Best regards, >> Dan Li > > > > -- ================================================================ http://www.van-helvoort.eu/ ================================================================ Always remember that you are unique...just like everyone else... From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 09 17:53:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I81AJ-00072u-4Z for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:53:07 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I81AC-00081j-Cg for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:53:07 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I814g-0008sT-IH for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:47:18 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [62.23.212.27] (helo=smail5.alcatel.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I814R-0008rP-1B for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:47:09 +0000 Received: from FRVELSBHS05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com [155.132.6.77]) by smail5.alcatel.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/ICT) with ESMTP id l69Litwu024715; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:44:55 +0200 Received: from FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com ([155.132.6.52]) by FRVELSBHS05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:46:43 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:46:29 +0200 Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E3809FCF39@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> In-Reply-To: <7A492CFB1EFCFF4993DD968BC6AB617E0379ED7C@xmb-rtp-208.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Follow-up on comments on draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt Thread-Index: Ace/Iv/wATkVETcSTT+CAQmeajDxfgBrSD/wAFqvezAAAaANEAADKfYgAACtxsAABPVCIAACS8cg From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Hassan Sheikh $hassans$" , "Igor Bryskin" , "Zafar Ali $zali$" , "Lou Berger" , "Igor Bryskin" , Cc: "Adrian Farrel" , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , "Tomohiro Otani" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2007 21:46:43.0041 (UTC) FILETIME=[A39D6510:01C7C272] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 155.132.188.13 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 90e8b0e368115979782f8b3d811b226b =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Hassan Sheikh (hassans) [mailto:hassans@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 10:15 PM > To: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri; Igor Bryskin; Zafar Ali (zali);=20 > Lou Berger; Igor Bryskin; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Tomohiro Otani > Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on=20 > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt >=20 >=20 > There are two problems with "gratuitous ARP" that I have encountered > while testing: > 1- It is not 100% reliable and these message can get lost /dropped > unless both ends of the link are fully operational. the same would happen with any other in-band messaging that share the same end-points (side note what do you=20 mean by "both ends of the link are fully operational") > 2- What happens when ARP cache times out - i.e no activity on the data > plane. Then we need another mechanism to kick start and=20 > populate the ARP entries. do i well understand here that one could have a case=20 where local ARP cashes could clear within X min w/o any packet being exchanged ? assuming that would be the case (is that really the case outside any test/demo context) are you going to=20 re-signal the LSP just to be sure that the ARP cache=20 entry stays up ?=20 > What is being asked here is to associate the GMPLS LSP=20 > (considered to a > p-p link) endpoints with an ARP entry just like you would for a native > Ethernet link. In this case, we would like to remove the dependency on > the underlying Ethernet layer. This case is applicable when the GMPLS > LSP is setup over an Ethernet link. if my understanding of the problem described by Zafar is correct, the case described is not GMPLS over an Ethernet=20 link but GMPLS LSP setup resulting in an Ethernet link=20 > Thx > hassan >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri > [mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be]=20 > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 2:39 PM > To: Igor Bryskin; Zafar Ali (zali); Lou Berger; Igor Bryskin; > ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > (hassans); > Tomohiro Otani > Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt >=20 > igor,=20 >=20 > actually, we have ARP (or ND in case of v6) for address resolution >=20 > the whole discussion point for me (reading the material from zafar) is > that he wants to remove a dependency about IPv4 running over Ethernet > that is (by definition not dependent of GMPLS but) resulting from the > use of GMPLS to establish the LSP X with GPID =3D Ethernet (Eth over = X)=20 >=20 > now, i am still not sure why zafar doesn't propose the use of > "gratuitous ARP" once the Ethernet i/f is up ? >=20 > thanks, > -d. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com] > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 7:32 PM > > To: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri; Zafar Ali (zali); Lou Berger;=20 > Igor Bryskin; >=20 > > ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > > (hassans); Tomohiro Otani > > Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on=20 > > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt > >=20 > > Dimitri, > >=20 > > What I was saying is that if a client layer IP uses a server layer=20 > > Ethernet than the server layer should know what the Layer=20 > Information > > (LI) overhead to put on client's Adapted Information (AI),=20 > I mean this >=20 > > information belongs to Ethernet, not to IP, and it is not IP's=20 > > business to identify this information. And as you pointed=20 > out a pair=20 > > of IP routers could be inter-connected by Ethernet trail, while=20 > > another pair by SDH trail and it is not IP's business to=20 > determine LI=20 > > in either of server layers. So, how is it different from=20 > what you say? > >=20 > > Igor > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri > > [mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be] > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:18 PM > > To: Igor Bryskin; Zafar Ali (zali); Lou Berger; Igor Bryskin;=20 > > ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > > (hassans); Tomohiro Otani > > Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on > > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > sorry but we don't discuss about any over Ethernet here but between=20 > > two IP/MPLS LSR > >=20 > > hence, what is different here from two LSRs interconnected by an=20 > > Ethernet link over X ? > >=20 > > zafar can you clarify this point ? because from what i read in your=20 > > draft it is because the address to be resolved creates an issue but=20 > > why should that be different from what you see today between two=20 > > Ethernet hosts connected back-to-back ? > >=20 > > -d. > > =20 > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com] > > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 5:46 PM > > > To: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri; Zafar Ali (zali); Lou Berger; Igor=20 > > > Bryskin; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > > > (hassans); Tomohiro Otani > > > Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on=20 > > > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt > > >=20 > > > Zafar, > > >=20 > > > Let's look at your situation with eyes of an ITU-T folk :=3D) > > >=20 > > > Your client layer is IP, and your server layer (the one > > that provides > > > connectivity between IP routers) is Ethernet. This means=20 > that a link >=20 > > > in IP layer is provided by a connection in Ethernet layer. The > > MAC header > > > you need to encapsulate your IP CI is a label of the Ethernet=20 > > > connection and should be learned via signaling before the=20 > connection >=20 > > > is used. Note also that IP layer is not the only client=20 > of Ethernet, >=20 > > > for example, Ethernet-in-Ethernet is quite possible, so you can't=20 > > > rely > > on protocols > > > like ARP.=20 > > >=20 > > > Cheers, > > > Igor > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On=20 > > > Behalf Of PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri > > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 3:54 PM > > > To: Zafar Ali (zali); Lou Berger; Igor Bryskin; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > > > (hassans); Tomohiro Otani > > > Subject: RE: Follow-up on comments on=20 > > > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt > > >=20 > > > zafar > > >=20 > > > it is the other way around, because you have different > > subnets you can > > > not make use of existing mechanisms > > >=20 > > > "The solution we are pushing for is that we need a mechanism that=20 > > > allows us to resolve ARP directly for the GMPLS tunnel ip=20 > addresses. >=20 > > > This removes any dependency on the underlying Ethernet=20 > links or the=20 > > > addressing scheme that is used for TE links i.e. numbered > > links in the > > > same or different subnets." > > >=20 > > > hence the first question is why shall this be different ? > > >=20 > > > -d. > > >=20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > > > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali) > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 6:39 PM > > > > To: Lou Berger; Igor Bryskin; ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > > > Cc: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; Hassan Sheikh=20 > > > > (hassans); Tomohiro Otani > > > > Subject: Follow-up on comments on=20 > > > > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt > > > >=20 > > > > Hi Lou, Igor, ccamper, et al, > > > > =20 > > > > Here is a follow-up on our AI from last WG meeting on=20 > the comments >=20 > > > > received on=20 > > > >=20 > draft-ali-arp-over-gmpls-controlled-ethernet-psc-i-03.txt. We are=20 > > > > planning to revise the document based on your feedback. > > > > Please advise if you have any further comment/ suggestion.=20 > > > > =20 > > > > The issue is focused around the use of the GMPLS tunnel as a=20 > > > > point-to-point link using Ethernet TE links. Unlike pos links=20 > > > > where a L2 adjacency resolution is not required, the Ethernet=20 > > > > links require that the ARP be resolved (aka Layer 2 MAC > > > > address) before any forwarding works on this link. It is not a=20 > > > > case of broken implementation. We (router vendors) cannot work=20 > > > > around ARP. What we need to do is to provide clear direction or=20 > > > > recommendation for vendors on how to ARP for GMPLS controlled=20 > > > > Ethernet interfaces. Or else, all vendors will=20 > implement whatever=20 > > > > ARP mechanism works for them in terms of forwarding.=20 > E.g., there=20 > > > > is an interop issue between Juniper and Cisco (from a fwding=20 > > > > perspective) when Ethernet links are used (Both do=20 > ARP). We had to >=20 > > > > find workarounds to make things work (at ISO Core and=20 > in private=20 > > > > testing). The same will be the case between Cisco, Juniper and=20 > > > > other vendors. > > > > =20 > > > > The solution we are pushing for is that we need a=20 > mechanism that=20 > > > > allows us to resolve ARP directly for the GMPLS tunnel ip=20 > > > > addresses. This removes any dependency on the=20 > underlying Ethernet=20 > > > > links or the addressing scheme that is used for TE links i.e.=20 > > > > numbered links in the same or different subnets. > > > > =20 > > > > In the following, we describe the situation with=20 > numbered Ethernet >=20 > > > > links and Unnumbered Ethernet links (the assumption is that the=20 > > > > GMPLS tunnel is a ipv4 numbered link in both > > instances). > > > > =20 > > > > Consider the scenario > > > > =20 > > > > <----------------------------------------------GMPLS > > > > Tunnel------------------------------------------> > > > > =20 > > > > RTR1 <------GE data link/TE link -----> OXC <------ GE data=20 > > > > link/TE link -----> RTR2 > > > > segment # 1 =20 > > > > segment # 2 > > > > There are two instance to consider: > > > > =20 > > > > (a) When numbered TE links are used but segment # 1 and=20 > segment #=20 > > > > 2 are in different subnets (valid scenario) > > > > In this situation we really have no way of resolving ARP=20 > > > > using the addresses of the underlying TE link Ethernet=20 > links w/o=20 > > > > using static ARP entries. The issue is that the subnets are=20 > > > > different so the ARP request received by RTR2 from RTR1 will be=20 > > > > rejected as it is not known to RTR2 and vice versa. > > > > Instead, if the ARP request if for the GMPLS tunnel=20 > instead then=20 > > > > there should be no problem as the GMPLS tunnel is p-p link with=20 > > > > IPV4 addresses in the same subnet. > > > > Verdict: If we have the ARP resolution mechanism tied in to the=20 > > > > GMPLS tunnel interfaces addresses then there is no issue or=20 > > > > dependency > > > > =20 > > > > (a) When numbered TE links are used and segment # 1 and=20 > segment #=20 > > > > 2 are in the same subnet. > > > > In this setup the GMPLS Tunnel can inherit and use the=20 > > > > ethernet link address for ARP resolution and there is=20 > no issue as=20 > > > > both segments are in the same subnet. The problem in this=20 > > > > situation is that we need to resolve the ARP for the > > > > ipv4 addresses for the GMPLS tunnel (considered as a p-p > > > > link) as opposed to inherit it from the underlying Ethernet > > > TE links. > > > > Verdict: In this situation the ARP resolution=20 > mechanism should be >=20 > > > > developed for the GMPLS tunnel address. > > > > =20 > > > > (c) The third scenario is when the GMPLS tunnel is numbered but=20 > > > > the TE links are Unnumbered. > > > > In this case we are again faced with the same issue of > > > > L2 ARP adjacency resolution between RTR1 and RTR2. RTR2 will=20 > > > > reject the ARP request for RTR1 when it does not find the=20 > > > > Unnumbered address (used by RTR1) in its FWDing database. > > > > This issue would not be encountered if we were=20 > resolving the ARP=20 > > > > on GMPLS tunnel address. > > > > Verdict: ARP resolution mechanism is required for GMPLS tunnel. > > > > =20 > > > > (d) We also need to make sure that when the tunnel-id is unnum,=20 > > > > vendor implementation honor ARP request using loopback=20 > addresses.=20 > > > > We have also faced interop issue in this scenario. > > > > =20 > > > > Thanks > > > > =20 > > > > Regards... 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------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7C286.281DDB40-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 10 03:03:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I89kw-0001Jd-KB for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 03:03:30 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I89kw-0004Jj-4N for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 03:03:30 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I89aM-000Pyc-V9 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 06:52:34 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [193.180.251.60] (helo=mailgw3.ericsson.se) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I89aA-000PxK-5M for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 06:52:29 +0000 Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id B0B3820953; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:52:19 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-b1681bb0000007e1-ef-46932ca3a3a3 Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.121]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 959FB20A43; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:52:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.78]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:52:19 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: new draft about signaling for a bidirectionl lightpath Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:52:17 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848E6D11@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <20070707.110116.-1300538656.harai@nict.go.jp> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: new draft about signaling for a bidirectionl lightpath Thread-Index: AcfAOu8SSG0RZRFtS+OKtUGX0oGvIgCgKesg From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" To: "Hiroaki Harai" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2007 06:52:19.0119 (UTC) FILETIME=[DBD67BF0:01C7C2BE] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 789c141a303c09204b537a4078e2a63f Hi Hiroaki, I think that this is a real problem that can be addressed in = several way: 1 Label set and Upstream label + crankback: this should works but of = course is not optimal; 2 The way you proposed with Upstream label set; 3 A modification to the routing protocol in order to advertise the = available lambdas; 4 A centralized PCE approach adding manually (or via modified routing = protocols) the lambda availability The above should covers the lambda continuity problem but not the = optical impairments one. Seems that after some years of sleeping the Lambda switching is becoming = interesting again there are several drafts on this topic. Best regards Diego -----Original Message----- From: Hiroaki Harai [mailto:harai@nict.go.jp]=20 Sent: sabato 7 luglio 2007 4.01 To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: new draft about signaling for a bidirectionl lightpath Hi, Diego. I think the usage that you mentioned (using label set and upstream label) is not enough by the following two reasons. 1. [Non-support of multiple lambdas] Upstream label object conveys only ONE label, which is likely to face lack of the same lambda as that in the previous link. We have high blocking probability for LSP setup. If we convey multiple lambdas for upstream, the probability would be reduced significantly (but, we cannot convey). Someone may want to change lambda in Upstream Label into other lambda among lambdas in the Label Set when the lambda in Upstream Label is not acceptable further. However, according to Section 3.1 of RFC 3473, if label in Upstream Label is not acceptable, PathErr is generated. Different from Suggested Label, we have no chance to change. So, using Upstream Label is not enough. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3.1 Procedures (RFC 3473) The process of establishing a bidirectional LSP follows the establishment of a unidirectional LSP with some additions. To support bidirectional LSPs an Upstream_Label object is added to the Path message. The Upstream_Label object MUST indicate a label that is valid for forwarding at the time the Path message is sent. When a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver MUST issue a PathErr message with a "Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set, see Section 4.1. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 2. [Keep flexibility] The same lambda on both directions may not reqested for some bidirectional LSPs different from the case in this draft. In this case, once we pose the same lambda constraint against upstream label, we lose flexiblity to setup LSPs by different lambda in each direction. Best regards, - Hiroaki =20 From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" Subject: RE: new draft about signaling for a bidirectionl lightpath Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:00:13 +0200 Message-ID: = <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BE088@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> >=20 > Hi Hiroaki, > Not clear to me why the mechanism using label set with the = same lambda as the Upstream label is not enough here. =20 >=20 > BR >=20 > Diego >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Hiroaki Harai > Sent: venerd=EC 6 luglio 2007 3.10 > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: new draft about signaling for a bidirectionl lightpath >=20 > Hi everyone, >=20 > We posted a new draft about GMPLS signaling for a bidirectional > lightpath setup as follows. > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-rsvpte-bidir-wave-00.txt >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Title : Extensions to GMPLS RSVP-TE for Bidirectional Lightpath with > the Same Wavelength > Authors : S. Xu, H. Harai, and D. King > Filename: draft-xu-rsvpte-bidir-wave-00.txt > =09 > Abstract: For bidirectional lightpaths provisioning, in the case of > optical nodes that do not support wavelength conversion, it would be > necessary to use the same wavelength along the route on each > direction. In certain optical network scenarios, the use of the same > wavelength on both directions would be advantageous. For instance, > some type of ROADMs may add/drop the same wavelength > simultaneously. In another case, the users' optical end nodes are > equipped with fixed-wavelength transponders. >=20 > This document describes extensions to RSVP-TE signaling for=20 > bidirectional wavelength lightpaths that require the same wavelength = on=20 > both directions. By using an LSP_ATTRIBUTES object defined in = [RFC4420],=20 > the extensions enable the new type lightpaths to support the low cost=20 > configuration at users' optical end nodes. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > We believe that selecting a single wavelength on both directions for a > bidirectional LSP is very real. And our suggestion in this draft is a > simple one. >=20 > We appreciate your comments and feedbacks. >=20 > With best regards, > Hiroaki >=20 > ------- > Hiroaki Harai, Ph.D. (http://nag.nict.go.jp/) > Network Architecture Group, New Generation Network Research Center > National Institute of Information and Communications Technology = (NICT), JAPAN. > Email: harai@nict.go.jp; Phone: +81-42-327-5418; FAX: = +81-42-327-6680 >=20 >=20 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 10 03:14:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I89vX-000231-F7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 03:14:27 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I89vV-0004WJ-R1 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 03:14:27 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I89m4-0001P1-GR for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:04:40 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_BASE64_NO_NAME autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [193.180.251.62] (helo=mailgw4.ericsson.se) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I89lq-0001Ku-3l for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:04:34 +0000 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 4B76D210E8; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:04:24 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b0034bb0000007e1-3d-46932f78469e Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.123]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 13DFD20154; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:04:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.78]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:04:23 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7C2C0.8B9CA9C7" Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:04:21 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848E6D2D@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <469262E2.7030209@grotto-networking.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Thread-Index: AcfCRqAqgtjidMiUQweBF1ahw9MIlwAeUyPw From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" To: "Greg Bernstein" , "Wataru Imajuku" Cc: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2007 07:04:23.0348 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B830F40:01C7C2C0] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ea98b4531a0f62d9b5bec3f8f731859 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. 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esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8AAm-0006CT-Fi for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 03:30:12 -0400 Received: from adsl-d114.84-47-68.t-com.sk ([84.47.68.114] helo=vlado-awe2p1mcw) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8AAW-0004nV-J5 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 03:30:12 -0400 Message-ID: <080001c7c303$3ade56e0$8313f8b0@ucircuitryu> Reply-To: "Addie Haysfi" From: "Addie Haysfi" To: Subject: Nina_DOC_7495_003.pdf Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:29:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_03B1A49C.A19D7EA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b045c2b078f76b9f842d469de8a32de3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_03B1A49C.A19D7EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original 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------=_NextPart_000_0003_03B1A49C.A19D7EA0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 10 03:41:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8ALK-0006wA-1g for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 03:41:06 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8ALF-0002dR-3u for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 03:41:06 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I8AFi-0004gh-5E for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:35:18 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [129.60.39.102] (helo=tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1I8AFV-0004fa-Sy for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:35:12 +0000 Received: from sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp (IDENT:mirapoint@sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.117]) by tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6A7Uj8V017524; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:35:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.112]) by sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp (MOS 3.8.4-GA) with ESMTP id ARL00759; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:35:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.100]) by mfs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6A7Z33m019299; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:35:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.69]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6A7Z37X016884; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:35:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6A7Z376005346; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:35:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imf0.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.144]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6A7Z2WK005340; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:35:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from Panasonic.lab.ntt.co.jp ([129.60.80.55]) by imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6A7YsbD029998; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:35:02 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20070710162057.07ff77a0@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> X-Sender: tt043@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J-Jr3 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:34:41 +0900 To: Meral Shirazipour From: Tomonori TAKEDA Subject: Re: Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt Cc: "ccamp@ops.ietf.org" , takeda.tomonori@lab.ntt.co.jp In-Reply-To: <1183991458.469246a233457@www.imp.polymtl.ca> References: <6.0.0.20.2.20070709105344.0871a610@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> <1183954057.4691b4894b96a@www.imp.polymtl.ca> <6.0.0.20.2.20070709142721.08632eb0@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> <1183991458.469246a233457@www.imp.polymtl.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f402fbded34a6df606921f56b8bdd8 Hi Meral, Please see in-line. At 23:30 07/07/09, Meral Shirazipour wrote: >Dear Tomonori, > Thank you for the explanation: >---------- >>[Page 12] >>first paragraph:"This scheme cannot guarantee to establish diverse LSPs (even >>if they could exist) because the first LSP is established without >>consideration of the need for a diverse recovery LSP. Crankback [crankback] >>may be used in combination with this scheme in order to improve the >>possibility of successful diverse LSP setup." >>How can crankback on the protection LSP help if the problem is the already >>established working LSP ?! > >There are several causes why the recovery LSP can not be computed. In one >case, the recovery LSP can not be computed because the working LSP is >blocking (there is no way). In another case, the recovery LSP can not be >computed because the bad border node is selected, but crankback can fix >this. We are not saying that the first case can be fixed by crankback. >---------- > > > > Just to make sure that I understood well, crankback is used when the entity >that determined the diverse recovery LSP had only access to an out of date >information that did not include the recently deployed working LSP ? Out of date information is yet another case where the recovery LSP can not be computed. Crankback is also applicable when information is up-to-date (when there are more than two border nodes). Here is an example. B----------E / \ / \ A---C----------F---H \ | / \ | / D----------G - A,B,C,D belong to domain#1. - E,F,G,H belong to domain#2. - The working LSP is A->D->G->F->H. Assume we are using per-domain sequential path computation, and trying to establish the recovery LSP from A to H. For the recovery LSP, domain#1 may compute A->C. At domain#2 (or at F), we know that the recovery LSP can not be computed since the working LSP is blocking. Now crankback can fix this by notifying domain#1, and domain#1 re-computes the recovery LSP as A->B. Hope this clarifies. Thanks, Tomonori >Thanks again for taking the time... > >Warm Regards, >Meral > > > > > > > > > >Selon Tomonori TAKEDA : > >> Hi Meral, >> >> Thanks for you comments. I copied CCAMP list here for sharing information. >> >> Please see in-line. >> >> At 13:07 07/07/09, Meral Shirazipour wrote: >> >Dear Tomonori, >> > I just finished reading the draft. Below I have a few >> comments/suggestions, >> >mainly regarding typos and clarity. >> > >> >Warm Regards, >> >Meral >> > >> >[Page 2/16] >> >5.4 Inter-domain Collaborate Path Computation....................16 >> > >> >Maybe Collaborative would be better?! >> >> Thanks. >> >> >[Page 4] >> >section 1.2 Domain >> >"In such a scenarios,..." >> > >> >Should be "In such scenarios" or "In such a scenario" >> >> Thanks. >> >> >section 1.3 Document Scope , third paragraph >> >"which can advantageously used" >> >Should be "which can advantageously be used" >> >> Thanks. >> >> >[Page 6/7] >> >"Figure 2: Mesh Connectivity" should be on page 6 >> >> OK. >> >> >[Page 9] >> >"An example of such a scheme is Backward Recursive Pause Computation (BRPC) >> >[brpc]" >> > >> >"Pause" should be replaced by "Path" >> >> Thanks. >> >> >[Page 20] >> >[brpc]: >> >A Backward Recursive PCE-based Computation (BRPC) procedure to compute >> >shortest inter-domain Traffic Engineering Label Switched Paths >> > >> >Path with S >> >> Thanks. >> >> >[Page 12] >> >first paragraph:"This scheme cannot guarantee to establish diverse LSPs >> (even if >> >they could exist) because the first LSP is established without >> consideration of >> >the need for a diverse recovery LSP. Crankback [crankback] may be used in >> >combination with this scheme in order to improve the possibility of >> successful >> >diverse LSP setup." >> > >> >How can crankback on the protection LSP help if the problem is the already >> >established working LSP ?! >> >> There are several causes why the recovery LSP can not be computed. In one >> case, the recovery LSP can not be computed because the working LSP is >> blocking (there is no way). In another case, the recovery LSP can not be >> computed because the bad border node is selected, but crankback can fix >> this. We are not saying that the first case can be fixed by crankback. >> >> Thanks, >> Tomonori >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Selon Tomonori TAKEDA : >> > >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> A new version of inter-domain recovery analysis I-D have been published. >> >> >> >> Here are major changes: >> >> - Added text on security considerations section >> >> - Cleaned up text marked "for further study" (various places) >> >> - Added a reference to [PCEP-XRO] >> >> - Enhanced text on computing diverse paths sequentially with >> confidentiality >> >> (Section 5.4.1) >> >> - Moved "terminology" section into "introduction" section >> >> - Removed manageability considerations section >> >> - Polished text >> >> >> >> Authors believe the document is now completed and ready for WG last call. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tomonori >> >> >> >> >To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> >> >From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >> >> >Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:15:01 -0400 >> >> >X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) >> >> >X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be >> >> >Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org >> >> >Subject: I-D >> ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-01.txt >> >> >X-BeenThere: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> >> >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >> >> >Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> >> >List-Id: i-d-announce.ietf.org >> >> >List-Unsubscribe: >> >> >> >>>, >> >> >List-Archive: >> >> >List-Post: >> >> >List-Help: >> >> >List-Subscribe: >> >> >> >>>

(a) When numbered TE links are used and segment # 1 and segment # 2 = are in=20 the same subnet.

Verdict: In=20 this situation the ARP resolution mechanism should be developed for the = GMPLS=20 tunnel address.

Verdict: ARP resolution mechanism is required = for GMPLS=20 tunnel.

(d) We also need to make sure that when the = tunnel-id=20 is unnum, vendor implementation honor ARP request using loopback = addresses. We=20 have also faced interop issue in this scenario.=20

Thanks

Regards... Hassan and Zafar=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BF23.0096A019-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:52:08 +0000 Message-ID: <468D1EAD.606@grotto-networking.com> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:39:09 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040306020202000908070009" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040306020202000908070009 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Diego, looks like we've been thinking about similar issues lately. First, I want to nail down the interfaces on your lambda switch below. Are they: (a) WDM interfaces, i.e., with multiple lambda's coming in and out. (b) single wavelength interfaces (c) a combination of the two, e.g., like in a ADM (or ROADM) where we have line side (WDM) and drop side single wavelength. On terminology instead of "frequency switching" can we call it by its more typical name "wavelength conversion" to avoid confusion with "lambda switching" (since lambda's and frequencies have a 1-1 correspondence and both are used to describe optical signals in ITU-T recommendations). Given where the OEO is located I'd say that particular interface is a single wavelength. Regards Greg B. Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. > > > > > > > > +-----------------+ > > | |-------+ > > | | OEO | > > | Lambda |-------+ > > | Switch | > > | | > > | | > > +-----------------+ > > > > > > The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the > interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda > frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching > capability' the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, > port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by > the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I > have to advertise? > > > > BR > > > Diego > > > > **Diego Caviglia** > > Product Line ON BBN > > PA Broadband BNET > > > > **Marconi S.p.A** > > Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy > > Via Anagnina,203 > > 0018, Roma , Italy > > www.ericsson.com > > > > Office: +39 010 600 3736 > > Fax: +39 010 600 3493 > > Mobile: +39 335 7181762 > > Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com > > This communication is confidential and intended solely for the > addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution > is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in > error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and > delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. > > E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, > interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we > only send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for > any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or > any consequences thereof. > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------040306020202000908070009 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Diego, looks like we've been thinking about similar issues lately.
First, I want to nail down the interfaces on your lambda switch below.
Are they:
(a) WDM interfaces, i.e., with multiple lambda's coming in and out.
(b) single wavelength interfaces
(c) a combination of the two, e.g., like in a ADM (or ROADM) where we have line side (WDM) and drop side single wavelength.

On terminology instead of "frequency switching" can we call it by its more typical name "wavelength conversion" to avoid confusion with "lambda switching" (since lambda's and frequencies have a 1-1 correspondence and both are used to describe optical signals in ITU-T recommendations).

Given where the OEO is located I'd say that particular interface is a single wavelength.

Regards

Greg B.

Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) wrote:

Hi all,

         I’ve a doubt about how to model the following situation.

      +-----------------+

      |                 |-------+

      |                 | OEO   |

      |     Lambda      |-------+

      |     Switch      |

      |                 |

      |                 |

      +-----------------+



The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda frequency. In this case there are two different ‘switching capability’ the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to advertise?

BR

Diego

Diego Caviglia

Product Line ON BBN

PA Broadband BNET

Marconi S.p.A

Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy

Via Anagnina,203

0018, Roma , Italy

www.ericsson.com

Office: +39 010 600 3736

Fax: +39 010 600 3493

Mobile: +39 335 7181762

Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com

This communication is confidential and intended solely for the addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you.

E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any consequences thereof.

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

--------------040306020202000908070009-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 06:44:14 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7BECF.7BF24BBF" Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 08:39:59 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BD9E6@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> Thread-Topic: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Thread-Index: Ace9Qa6ZTl3jS1bxRCKUK9yWDVtLnAATdoXQAB5NhOAAAuz8EAAuiQKA From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" To: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BECF.7BF24BBF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Julien, Hmmmmmm not sure my Understanding of the lambda switching is = what I've called spatial switching that is lambda1 portA --> lambda1 = portB what is not clear to me is how can be advertised an OEO = transponder that can only perform frequency switching lambda1 --> lambda = 2. Adrian? Deb? Anyone else? BR Diego -----Original Message----- From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN = [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com]=20 Sent: mercoled=EC 4 luglio 2007 18.47 To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Hi Diego. I believe we should refer to the Holly RFC 3945, chapter 1, verse 2: - "Lambda Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of an = *individual wavelength*" [or a "group of wavelengths"], meaning that you = manipulate values of wavelengths (as AU-4 numbers [or AU-4 ranges] from = an SDH portA to SDH portB), like in a ROADM; - "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of a = single or multiple *fibers*", meaning *spatial switching* where you = don't consider the type of signal that ports convey (could be anything = like a black and white signal, a wavelength, a WDM multiplex, some = optical packets...), like in a OOO PXC. To stick with strict terminolgy: lambda =3D wavelength =3D (speedOfLight = / frequency) So if you need to do "frequency switching", then it is the so called = "lambda switching". :-) Anyway, this is my understanding, so if I'm wrong or if it's a = vocabulary issue because you find that terms are inappropriate, then = we'd better ask father Adrian and sister Deborah. Cheers, Julien -----Original Message----- From: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) [mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com]=20 Hi Julien, Actually not the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a single = lambda I didn't but the mux/demux In the picture sorry. The point I failed to illustrate is the ambiguity of the term "Lambda = Switch Capable" given that there two possible ways to switch a lambda. =20 The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda1 portB) = this is the way an all optical switch works and this why there is the = lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks. =20 The second one is the frequency switching: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 = portA) this switching can be done via a transponder (OEO) device. =20 Of course is possible to mix the two switching having (Lambda1 portA) = --> (Lambda2 portB) My impression is that the definition "Lambda Switch Capable" refers to = the spatial switching and thus I don't know how to model the fact that = after/before a photonic matrix I have a transponder. =20 I hope I've made my question clearer. Best Regards Diego -----Original Message----- From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN = [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com]=20 Sent: marted=EC 3 luglio 2007 19.21 To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Hi Diego. If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself is a PXC that has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you add lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you or anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card or in a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to work on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port B)]. As a result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which is "Lambda Switch Capable". If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your "lambda swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels aren't wavelengths but ports. But maybe I didn't get your actual issue. My 2 cents, Julien ________________________________ From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) Hi all, I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. =20 =20 =20 +-----------------+ | |-------+ | | OEO | | Lambda |-------+ | Switch | | | | | +-----------------+ =20 =20 The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability' the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to advertise? =20 BR Diego =20 Diego Caviglia Product Line ON BBN PA Broadband BNET =20 Marconi S.p.A Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy Via Anagnina,203 0018, Roma , Italy www.ericsson.com =20 =20 Office: +39 010 600 3736 Fax: +39 010 600 3493 Mobile: +39 335 7181762 Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com =20 This communication is confidential and intended solely for the addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any consequences thereof. =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BECF.7BF24BBF Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with = Transponder

Hi = Julien,

Adrian? Deb? Anyone = else?

Diego

Hi Diego.

I believe we should refer to the Holly RFC 3945, chapter 1, verse = 2:

To stick with strict terminolgy: lambda =3D wavelength =3D = (speedOfLight / frequency)

So if you need to do "frequency switching", then it is = the so called "lambda switching". :-)

Anyway, this is my understanding, so if I'm wrong or if it's a = vocabulary issue because you find that terms are inappropriate, then = we'd better ask father Adrian and sister Deborah.

Cheers,

Julien

-----Original Message-----

From: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) [mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsso= n.com]

Hi Julien,

Actually not = the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a single lambda I didn't but the = mux/demux In the picture sorry.

The point I failed to illustrate is the ambiguity of the term = "Lambda Switch Capable" given that there two possible ways to = switch a lambda.

The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda1 = portB) this is the way an all optical switch works and this why there is = the lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks. =

The second one is the frequency switching: (Lambda1 portA) --> = (Lambda2 portA) this switching can be done via a transponder (OEO) = device.

Of course is possible to mix the two switching having (Lambda1 = portA) --> (Lambda2 portB)

I hope I've made my question clearer.

Best Regards

Diego

-----Original Message-----

From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN [mailto:julien.meuric@ora= nge-ftgroup.com]

Sent: marted=EC 3 luglio 2007 19.21

To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org

Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with = Transponder

Hi Diego.

If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself = is a PXC that

has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you = add

lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you = or

anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card = or in

a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to = work

on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port = B)]. As a

result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which = is

"Lambda Switch Capable".

If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your = "lambda

swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels = aren't

wavelengths but ports.

But maybe I didn't get your actual issue.

My 2 cents,

Julien

________________________________

From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org<= /A>] On

Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)

Hi all,

I've a doubt about = how to model the following situation.

= +-----------------+

= | = |-------+

= | = | OEO |

| = Lambda |-------+

| = Switch |

= | = |

= +-----------------+

The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while = the

interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the = lambda

frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching = capability'

the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) = -->

(lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the = OEO

transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I = have to

advertise?

Diego

Diego Caviglia

Product Line ON BBN

PA Broadband BNET

Marconi S.p.A

Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy

Via Anagnina,203

0018, Roma , Italy

www.ericsson.com <http://www.ericsson.com/> =

Office: +39 010 600 3736

Fax: +39 010 600 3493

Mobile: +39 335 7181762

Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com

This communication is confidential and intended solely for = the

addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or = distribution

is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you = in

error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission = and

delete the message without disclosing it. Thank = you.

E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data = corruption,

interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we = only

send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any = such

corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or = any

consequences thereof.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BECF.7BF24BBF-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:49:12 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 18:46:34 +0200 Message-ID: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604B253BC@FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr> Thread-Topic: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Thread-Index: Ace9Qa6ZTl3jS1bxRCKUK9yWDVtLnAATdoXQAB5NhOAAAuz8EA== From: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Diego Caviglia $GA/ERI$" , Hi Diego. I believe we should refer to the Holly RFC 3945, chapter 1, verse 2: - "Lambda Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of an = *individual wavelength*" [or a "group of wavelengths"], meaning that you = manipulate values of wavelengths (as AU-4 numbers [or AU-4 ranges] from = an SDH portA to SDH portB), like in a ROADM; - "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces "can operate at the level of a = single or multiple *fibers*", meaning *spatial switching* where you = don't consider the type of signal that ports convey (could be anything = like a black and white signal, a wavelength, a WDM multiplex, some = optical packets...), like in a OOO PXC. To stick with strict terminolgy: lambda =3D wavelength =3D (speedOfLight = / frequency) So if you need to do "frequency switching", then it is the so called = "lambda switching". :-) Anyway, this is my understanding, so if I'm wrong or if it's a = vocabulary issue because you find that terms are inappropriate, then = we'd better ask father Adrian and sister Deborah. Cheers, Julien -----Original Message----- From: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) [mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com]=20 Hi Julien, Actually not the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a single = lambda I didn't but the mux/demux In the picture sorry. The point I failed to illustrate is the ambiguity of the term "Lambda = Switch Capable" given that there two possible ways to switch a lambda. =20 The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda1 portB) = this is the way an all optical switch works and this why there is the = lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks. =20 The second one is the frequency switching: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 = portA) this switching can be done via a transponder (OEO) device. =20 Of course is possible to mix the two switching having (Lambda1 portA) = --> (Lambda2 portB) My impression is that the definition "Lambda Switch Capable" refers to = the spatial switching and thus I don't know how to model the fact that = after/before a photonic matrix I have a transponder. =20 I hope I've made my question clearer. Best Regards Diego -----Original Message----- From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN = [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com]=20 Sent: marted=EC 3 luglio 2007 19.21 To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Hi Diego. If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself is a PXC that has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you add lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you or anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card or in a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to work on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port B)]. As a result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which is "Lambda Switch Capable". If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your "lambda swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels aren't wavelengths but ports. But maybe I didn't get your actual issue. My 2 cents, Julien ________________________________ From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) Hi all, I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. =20 =20 =20 +-----------------+ | |-------+ | | OEO | | Lambda |-------+ | Switch | | | | | +-----------------+ =20 =20 The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability' the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to advertise? =20 BR Diego =20 Diego Caviglia Product Line ON BBN PA Broadband BNET =20 Marconi S.p.A Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy Via Anagnina,203 0018, Roma , Italy www.ericsson.com =20 =20 Office: +39 010 600 3736 Fax: +39 010 600 3493 Mobile: +39 335 7181762 Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com =20 This communication is confidential and intended solely for the addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any consequences thereof. =20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 07:10:55 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:08:16 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BD59C@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> Thread-Topic: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Thread-Index: Ace9Qa6ZTl3jS1bxRCKUK9yWDVtLnAATdoXQAB5NhOA= From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" To: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" , Hi Julien, Actually not the PXC I had in mind is able to switch a single = lambda I didn't but the mux/demux In the picture sorry. The point I failed to illustrate is the ambiguity of the term "Lambda = Switch Capable" given that there two possible ways to switch a lambda. =20 The first one is the spatial one: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda1 portB) = this is the way an all optical switch works and this why there is the = lambda continuity constraint in photonic networks. =20 The second one is the frequency switching: (Lambda1 portA) --> (Lambda2 = portA) this switching can be done via a transponder (OEO) device. =20 Of course is possible to mix the two switching having (Lambda1 portA) = --> (Lambda2 portB) My impression is that the definition "Lambda Switch Capable" refers to = the spatial switching and thus I don't know how to model the fact that = after/before a photonic matrix I have a transponder. =20 I hope I've made my question clearer. Best Regards Diego -----Original Message----- From: MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN = [mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com]=20 Sent: marted=EC 3 luglio 2007 19.21 To: Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI); ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Hi Diego. If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself is a PXC that has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you add lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you or anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card or in a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to work on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port B)]. As a result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which is "Lambda Switch Capable". If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your "lambda swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels aren't wavelengths but ports. But maybe I didn't get your actual issue. My 2 cents, Julien ________________________________ From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) Hi all, I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. =20 =20 =20 +-----------------+ | |-------+ | | OEO | | Lambda |-------+ | Switch | | | | | +-----------------+ =20 =20 The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability' the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to advertise? =20 BR Diego =20 Diego Caviglia Product Line ON BBN PA Broadband BNET =20 Marconi S.p.A Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy Via Anagnina,203 0018, Roma , Italy www.ericsson.com =20 =20 Office: +39 010 600 3736 Fax: +39 010 600 3493 Mobile: +39 335 7181762 Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com =20 This communication is confidential and intended solely for the addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any consequences thereof. =20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 18:16:48 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:15:02 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Extensions to GMPLS RSVP Graceful Restart Author(s) : A. Satyanarayana, R. Rahman Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2007-7-3 This document describes extensions to the RSVP Graceful Restart mechanisms defined in RFC 3473. The extensions enable the recovery of RSVP signaling state based on the Path message last sent by the node being restarted. Previously defined Graceful Restart mechanisms, also called recovery from nodal faults, permit recovery of signaling state from adjacent nodes when the data plane has retained the associated forwarding state across a restart. Those mechanisms do not fully support signaling state recovery on ingress nodes or recovery of all RSVP objects. The extensions defined in this document build on the RSVP Hello extensions defined in RFC 3209, and extensions for state recovery on nodal faults defined in RFC 3473. Using these extensions the restarting node can recover all previously transmitted Path state including the Explicit Route Object and the downstream (outgoing) interface identifiers. The extensions can also be used to recover signaling state after the restart of an ingress node. These extensions are not used to create or restore data plane state. The extensions optionally support the use of Summary Refresh, defined in RFC 2961, to reduce the number of messages exchanged during the Recovery Phase when the restarting node has recovered signaling state locally for one or more LSPs. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-3135619.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-3135619.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:22:37 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 19:20:33 +0200 Message-ID: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604B24E7D@FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr> Thread-Topic: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Thread-Index: Ace9Qa6ZTl3jS1bxRCKUK9yWDVtLnAATdoXQ From: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Diego Caviglia $GA/ERI$" , Hi Diego. If I understand correctly, your "lambda switch" by itself is a PXC that has only "Fiber-Switch Capable" interfaces. Then, you add lambda-conversion cards to it. So, correct me if I'm wrong (you or anyone else), but whether you do a lambda conversion inside a card or in a core matrix, this new interface on your global device is able to work on lambdas anyway [(lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda2, port B)]. As a result, you need to advertise your most flexible capability, which is "Lambda Switch Capable". If you used "FSC", you wouldn't be able to control your "lambda swapping" card, as LSPs are like lists of fibers and labels aren't wavelengths but ports. But maybe I didn't get your actual issue. My 2 cents, Julien ________________________________ From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI) Hi all, I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. =20 =20 =20 +-----------------+ | |-------+ | | OEO | | Lambda |-------+ | Switch | | | | | +-----------------+ =20 =20 The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability' the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to advertise? =20 BR Diego =20 Diego Caviglia Product Line ON BBN PA Broadband BNET =20 Marconi S.p.A Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy Via Anagnina,203 0018, Roma , Italy www.ericsson.com =20 =20 Office: +39 010 600 3736 Fax: +39 010 600 3493 Mobile: +39 335 7181762 Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com =20 This communication is confidential and intended solely for the addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any consequences thereof. =20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:17:08 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7BD41.AFA8F18A" Subject: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 09:13:40 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6848BD139@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> Thread-Topic: Switching Capability of Photonic Links with Transponder Thread-Index: Ace9Qa6ZTl3jS1bxRCKUK9yWDVtLnA== From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BD41.AFA8F18A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I've a doubt about how to model the following situation. =20 =20 =20 +-----------------+ | |-------+ | | OEO | | Lambda |-------+ | Switch | | | | | +-----------------+ =20 =20 The node itself is able to cross connect only the Lambda while the interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change the lambda frequency. In this case there are two different 'switching capability' the spatial one that is performed by the switch (lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have to advertise? =20 BR Diego =20 Diego Caviglia Product Line ON BBN PA Broadband BNET =20 Marconi S.p.A Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy Via Anagnina,203 0018, Roma , Italy www.ericsson.com =20 =20 Office: +39 010 600 3736 Fax: +39 010 600 3493 Mobile: +39 335 7181762 Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com =20 This communication is confidential and intended solely for the addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to you in error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you. E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only send and receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any consequences thereof. =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BD41.AFA8F18A Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

= I’ve a doubt about how to model the following = situation.

= +-----------------+

= | = |-------+

= | = | OEO |

= | Lambda = |-------+

= | Switch = |

= | = |

= +-----------------+

The node itself is able to cross connect only = the Lambda while the interface has a OEO transponder that is able to change = the lambda frequency. In this case there are two different = ‘switching capability’ the spatial one that is performed by the switch = (lambda 1, port A) --> (lambda1, port B) and the frequency switching is done by = the OEO transponder. Witch kind of interface switching capability I have = to advertise?

Diego

<= font size=3D2 face=3DArial>Diego Caviglia

Product Line ON = BBN

PA Broadband BNET

<= font size=3D2 face=3DArial>Marconi S.p.A

Ericsson Global Product Center - Italy

Via Anagnina,203

0018, Roma , Italy

www.ericsson.com

Office: +39 010 600 3736

Fax: +39 010 600 3493

Mobile: +39 335 7181762

Email: diego.caviglia@ericsson.com

This communication is confidential and = intended solely for the addressee(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you believe this message has been sent to = you in error, please notify the sender by replying to this transmission and = delete the message without disclosing it. Thank you.

E-mail including attachments is susceptible to data corruption, = interception, unauthorized amendment, tampering and viruses, and we only send and = receive emails on the basis that we are not liable for any such corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses or any consequences = thereof.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BD41.AFA8F18A--

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