From norafuller_xl@umusic.com Wed Aug 01 01:06:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IG6Pb-0005V3-98; Wed, 01 Aug 2007 01:06:19 -0400 Received: from [125.131.181.129] (helo=nzmp.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IG6Pa-0000lL-FZ; Wed, 01 Aug 2007 01:06:19 -0400 Subject: We sell both BRAND(100% original) & GENERIC(35% cheaper) medications, Up to 70% saving mo0g832z MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Nora L. Fuller" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:08:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1185944914.4999@umusic.com> To: mipshop@ietf.org, ftp@ietf.org, isms-request@ietf.org, iesg-request@ietf.org, dccp@ietf.org, kink-archive@ietf.org, ccamp-archive@ietf.org Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7D4C9.53392F00-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 02 06:35:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGY1Q-0006lj-6p for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 06:35:12 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGY1O-00049i-TP for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 06:35:12 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IGXsL-0007Sj-S1 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:25:49 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [156.154.24.138] (helo=ns3.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IGXs6-0007RO-Cb for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:25:44 +0000 Received: from ietf.org (stiedprweb1.va.neustar.com [10.91.34.42]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F171175C0; Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:25:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mirror by ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IGXs4-00071J-K0; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 06:25:32 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Jones Cc: Stephen Trowbridge , Kam Lam , Scott Bradner , Ross Callon , Dave Ward , Deborah Brungard , CCAMP Mailing List , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) Subject: New Liaison Statement, "New RFCs Published as of 1st August 2007" Reply-To: Adrian Farrel Message-Id: Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 06:25:32 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3d7f2f6612d734db849efa86ea692407 Title: New RFCs Published as of 1st August 2007 Submission Date: 2007-08-02 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=352 From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) To: ITU-T SG15(Greg Jones ) Cc: Stephen Trowbridge Kam Lam Scott Bradner Ross Callon Dave Ward Deborah Brungard CCAMP Mailing List Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Purpose: For information Body: The CCAMP working group of the IETF would like to inform you of the publication of several new RFCs (Request for Comment) that may be relevant to your work. RFC 4872 Title RSVP-TE Extensions in Support of End-to-End Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Recovery Abstract This document describes protocol-specific procedures and extensions for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Resource ReSerVation Protocol - Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) signaling to support end-to-end Label Switched Path (LSP) recovery that denotes protection and restoration. A generic functional description of GMPLS recovery can be found in a companion document, RFC 4426. RFC 4873 Title GMPLS Segment Recovery Abstract This document describes protocol specific procedures for GMPLS (Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching) RSVP-TE (Resource ReserVation Protocol - Traffic Engineering) signaling extensions to support label switched path (LSP) segment protection and restoration. These extensions are intended to complement and be consistent with the RSVP-TE Extensions for End-to-End GMPLS Recovery (RFC 4872). Implications and interactions with fast reroute are also addressed. This document also updates the handling of NOTIFY_REQUEST objects. RFC 4874 Title Exclude Routes - Extension to Resource ReserVation Protocol- Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Abstract This document specifies ways to communicate route exclusions during path setup using Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE). The RSVP-TE specification, "RSVP-TE: Extensions to RSVP for LSP Tunnels" (RFC 3209) and GMPLS extensions to RSVP-TE, "Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Extensions" (RFC 3473) allow abstract nodes and resources to be explicitly included in a path setup, but not to be explicitly excluded. In some networks where precise explicit paths are not computed at the head end, it may be useful to specify and signal abstract nodes and resources that are to be explicitly excluded from routes. These exclusions may apply to the whole path, or to parts of a path between two abstract nodes specified in an explicit path. How Shared Risk Link Groups (SRLGs) can be excluded is also specified in this document. RFC 4875 Title Extensions to Resource Reservation Protocol - Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) for Point-to-Multipoint TE Label Switched Paths (LSPs) Abstract This document describes extensions to Resource Reservation Protocol - Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) for the set up of Traffic Engineered (TE) point-to-multipoint (P2MP) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) in Multi- Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) networks. The solution relies on RSVP-TE without requiring a multicast routing protocol in the Service Provider core. Protocol elements and procedures for this solution are described. There can be various applications for P2MP TE LSPs such as IP multicast. Specification of how such applications will use a P2MP TE LSP is outside the scope of this document. RFC 4920 Title Crankback Signaling Extensions for MPLS and GMPLS RSVP-TE Abstract In a distributed, constraint-based routing environment, the information used to compute a path may be out of date. This means that Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineered (TE) Label Switched Path (LSP) setup requests may be blocked by links or nodes without sufficient resources. Crankback is a scheme whereby setup failure information is returned from the point of failure to allow new setup attempts to be made avoiding the blocked resources. Crankback can also be applied to LSP recovery to indicate the location of the failed link or node. This document specifies crankback signaling extensions for use in MPLS signaling using RSVP-TE as defined in "RSVP-TE: Extensions to RSVP for LSP Tunnels", RFC 3209, and GMPLS signaling as defined in "Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Functional Description", RFC 3473. These extensions mean that the LSP setup request can be retried on an alternate path that detours around blocked links or nodes. This offers significant improvements in the successful setup and recovery ratios for LSPs, especially in situations where a large number of setup requests are triggered at the same time. RFC 4972 Title Routing Extensions for Discovery of Multiprotocol (MPLS) Label Switch Router (LSR) Traffic Engineering (TE) Mesh Membership Abstract The setup of a full mesh of Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSP) among a set of Label Switch Routers (LSR) is a common deployment scenario of MPLS Traffic Engineering either for bandwidth optimization, bandwidth guarantees or fast rerouting with MPLS Fast Reroute. Such deployment may require the configuration of a potentially large number of TE LSPs (on the order of the square of the number of LSRs). This document specifies Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP) routing extensions for Intermediate System-to-Intermediate System (IS-IS) and Open Shortest Path First (OSPF) so as to provide an automatic discovery of the set of LSRs members of a mesh in order to automate the creation of such mesh of TE LSPs. All IETF RFCs can be downloaded for free from http://www.ietf.org/rfc.html The current work plan and progress status of the CCAMP working group can be viewed at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ccamp-charter.html As always, the CCAMP working group welcomes questions and discussion about all of its work from individuals or organisations. The CCAMP mailing list is open to anyone. Details of subscription can be found on the CCAMP charter page. 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In-reply-to: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604C06AF2@FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr> To: 'MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN' , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-id: <000d01c7d506$ef726480$54c1c80a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-index: AcfQN76MRxmHBlcHTc+PsCRk25NgxgALzCzwASfulDA= Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Hi Julien, Thanks a lot for your opinion. Best regards, =20 Xu Xiaohu =20 -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org = [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2007=C4=EA7=D4=C227=C8=D5 18:16 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Xu Xiaohu; ccamp@ops.ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: Is fate-sharing a must for the bidirectional TE LSP? Hi Steven. Please find some pieces of answer below. I hope it will help. Regards, Julien ________________________________ From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Xu Xiaohu In the current PWE3 standard, although there is no requirement for fate-sharing on the outer LSP tunnels, bidirectional service, including CES, ATM and FR, can be supported well over PWE3. Is there some difference between the service requirements on PWE3 and those on bidirectional TE LSP? [JM] As you say, in PWE3 these are "service requirements", while when talking about TE-LSPs, we are considering various layers, from packet down to optical. As a results, requirements are different regarding the layer you are considering and the operationnal constrains you have on operating that specific layer. With the deployment of P2MP TE LSP, the bandwidth consumption over a link will become more asymmetric. The bidirectional TE LSP without fate-sharing requirement will maximize the utilization of the total network bandwidth resource because the forward LSP and backward LSP can travel over the different physical paths. [JM] For instance, lambdas over a core network may be more likely to have symmetrical needs than packet-based application over an aggregation network. In the latter case, having different routes or bandwidths on both direction could help optimization whereas in the former case, lambdas are prefered to be co-routed in both directions, otherwise it may become more complicated to operate and a mess for network planning. Any comment is welcomed. =20 =20 Best regards, =20 Steven Xu =20 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 02 16:15:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGh5D-0002gs-A3 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:15:43 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGh5C-0001N6-3X for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:15:43 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IGgxy-000EHy-Od for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:08:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [156.154.16.158] (helo=ns0.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IGgxn-000EH4-S8 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:08:09 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2323E3289C; Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:08:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IGgxn-0005HJ-18; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:08:03 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp (A Per-domain path computation method for establishing Inter-domain Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs)) to Proposed Standard Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: Message-Id: Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:08:03 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab The IESG has received a request from the Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) to consider the following document: - 'A Per-domain path computation method for establishing Inter-domain Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-08-16. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-05.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=13081&rfc_flag=0 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 02 16:16:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGh5v-0003da-0C for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:16:27 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGh5u-0002Ig-Kx for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:16:26 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IGh0N-000EbB-15 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:10:43 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [156.154.24.138] (helo=ns3.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IGh0C-000EaK-6O for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:10:37 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4CD17624; Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:10:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IGh0A-0005eS-OG; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:10:30 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te (Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions) to Proposed Standard Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: Message-Id: Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:10:30 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 The IESG has received a request from the Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) to consider the following document: - 'Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-08-16. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-06.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=12792&rfc_flag=0 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 02 16:22:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGhBn-00023T-06 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:22:31 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGhBm-0002VI-Kp for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:22:30 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IGh6T-000FG7-Ok for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:17:01 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [156.154.24.138] (helo=ns3.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IGh6I-000FFD-Uh for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:16:56 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0411B17624; Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:16:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IGh6H-0006GS-Ih; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:16:49 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching (Label Switched Path Stitching with Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering (GMPLS TE)) to Proposed Standard Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: Message-Id: Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:16:49 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 The IESG has received a request from the Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) to consider the following document: - 'Label Switched Path Stitching with Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering (GMPLS TE) ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-08-16. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. 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CT+Lie18v//Z ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C7D57C.80634980-- From linmyblogmet@myblog.de Fri Aug 03 04:20:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGsOI-0002tV-A7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:20:11 -0400 Received: from 206.143.broadband7.iol.cz ([88.102.143.206]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGsOG-0001wZ-Rb for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:20:09 -0400 Received: from [88.102.143.206] by ms-3.de.20six.net; Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:16:35 -0100 Message-ID: <01c7d5a6$9ba94e40$ce8f6658@linmyblogmet> From: "Valdis HOLTZMANN" To: Subject: Wachstum finanzieren – Rendite ernten! Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:16:35 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4927.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Lieber Aktienfreund, Meldungen zufolge wurde dem Unternehmen HEPAS ASSOCIATED MEDIA AG (ISIN CH0029095327, WKN: A0MJ2U) fuer etwa fuenfzig Programmstunden exklusive Vertriebsvertraege mit vieljaehriger Laufzeit von zwei bedeutenden Medien Vertriebs- und Produktionsunternehmen angeboten. Die Angebote werden zurzeit von der Vertriebsleitung HEPAS Associated Media AG geprueft und in Kuerze dem Verwaltungsrat zur Entscheidung vorgelegt. Nach einer erfolgreichen Erfuellung des Projektes bekommt die Gesellschaft ca. 20-50 Mio. Euro, daraus wird die Vervielfachung der Kapitalisierung fast um das dreifache resultieren. Somit wird sich der Kurs der HEPAS Aktie weiter stark positiv entwickeln. Boerse Frankfurt ISIN CH0029095327 WKN A0MJ2U TIPP: Diese Aktie wird sehr stark anziehen! Mit bestem Gruss, Dr. Valdis HOLTZMANN From egjwuwth@blaustein.com Fri Aug 03 04:30:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGsYk-00049i-C1 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:30:58 -0400 Received: from [88.233.154.156] (helo=dsl88-233-39580.ttnet.net.tr) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGsYi-0002Az-1N for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:30:58 -0400 Received: from [88.233.154.156] by smtp.easydns.com; Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:31:04 -0200 Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:31:04 -0200 From: "Ola Chan" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.5) Business Reply-To: egjwuwth@blaustein.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <129223347.54495653940614@blaustein.com> To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: Brilliant success! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Good day! FCL Trade Inc., one of the fastest growing financial group in USA, has openings for new vacant places. Company was founded in 2000 year, currently is based in USA. We create new branches in the country and seek for applicants due to a great increase in deal activity. You can see our vacancies in our website: www.fcltrade.com. If you're looking to make a permanent job change, our experts will invest the time to find you the right position. We are seeking individuals who are interested in building a profitable and rewarding business with our help and support, while achieving a balanced lifestyle that offers both personal and professional growth. This job, if approached correctly is an opportunity for almost unlimited income potential, and very fast-growing career. And the Job itself is not that hard one may think, on a contrary it as easy as one-two-three. Requirements: -The ideal candidate has prior experience and familiarity with financial services. -You must have excellent organizational as well as customer service skills. -Teamwork Skill is a "must". -Bachelor Degree is an advantage. If you be interested in this business proposal, please, fill out the form in our website: http://fcltrade.com/careers.html Sincerely yours, Andrew Saunders FCL Trade Inc. www.fcltrade.com From wevmidkphfhq@blueheronfarms.com Fri Aug 03 04:34:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGsbi-00064w-Lr for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:34:02 -0400 Received: from ne650.n.pppool.de ([89.50.230.80]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGsbe-0002Ii-C0 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:34:02 -0400 Received: from [89.50.230.80] by smtp.secureserver.net; Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:34:02 -0100 Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:34:02 -0100 From: "Andre Marks" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.10.01) Personal Reply-To: wevmidkphfhq@blueheronfarms.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <267681886.41096321126921@blueheronfarms.com> To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: Total success! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Good day! FCL Trade Inc., one of the fastest growing financial group in USA, has openings for new vacant places. Company was founded in 2000 year, currently is based in USA. We create new branches in the country and seek for applicants due to a great increase in deal activity. You can see our vacancies in our website: www.fcltrade.com. If you're looking to make a permanent job change, our experts will invest the time to find you the right position. We are seeking individuals who are interested in building a profitable and rewarding business with our help and support, while achieving a balanced lifestyle that offers both personal and professional growth. This job, if approached correctly is an opportunity for almost unlimited income potential, and very fast-growing career. And the Job itself is not that hard one may think, on a contrary it as easy as one-two-three. Requirements: -The ideal candidate has prior experience and familiarity with financial services. -You must have excellent organizational as well as customer service skills. -Teamwork Skill is a "must". -Bachelor Degree is an advantage. If you be interested in this business proposal, please, fill out the form in our website: http://fcltrade.com/careers.html Sincerely yours, Andrew Saunders FCL Trade Inc. www.fcltrade.com From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Aug 03 04:45:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGsmX-0007ni-RW for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:45:13 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGsmV-0002d9-2f for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:45:11 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IGsbq-0009aX-Ko for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 08:34:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [195.101.245.16] (helo=p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IGsbe-0009Z6-JQ for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 08:34:04 +0000 Received: from FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.153]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:33:43 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:33:47 +0200 Message-ID: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604C4A069@ftrdmel2> In-Reply-To: <46A925F9.408@psg.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Proposed CCAMP recharter Thread-Index: AcfP2JrFb12RqxyOQC22qIgA7mKV5AFzfQiA References: <195301c7cfcb$7ae97760$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <46A925F9.408@psg.com> From: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" To: , , Cc: , "Ross Callon" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2007 08:33:43.0712 (UTC) FILETIME=[0073B200:01C7D5A9] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 03169bfe4792634a390035a01a6c6d2f Hi Adrian. I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't = control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a = "connection-oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not = supported by typical "Ethernet switches". On the other hand, (echoing = Dimitri again) we are also considering Ethernet services over any = GMPLS-controlled layer. I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones = (unlike the charter which has a more long-term value). Regards, Julien -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On = Behalf Of dimitri papadimitriou adrian couple of points on editorship: - MRN req + eval. should imho be ready by end Aug. - concerning the i/w document i'd like to suggest referring to MPLS-TE=20 (rather than MPLS) since applying only to RSVP-TE - also you refer to a solution for the latter but we just have req. and=20 a framework since so far -> are u sure solution would be ready by Sep'07 or alternatively the former doc shall be split and further discussed we need also a milestone for input to the MPLS security doc. but not=20 sure this has to be recorded concerning the charter, two specific comments - like also mentioned during the second meeting, clarifying the term=20 Ethernet types would be suggested otherwise entering in an open-ended discussion about what is allowed/not allowed, desired/not-desired,=20 possible/not possible, etc. and probably focus on the analytical work=20 here (something we should have probably done in the GELS context but=20 did not happen) - side note here it was always felt useful to have=20 operational use case described as well but that work did also never = happen - is this milestone also including Ethernet service signaling e.g. MEF ? = in that case i would suggest to make a clear distinction here ? thanks, -d. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, >=20 > As discussed at the meeting(s) we should consider a small recharter to = > put the GELS work clearly in scope and to indicate that we will work=20 > with IEEE 802.1 as necessary. >=20 > We should take the opportunity to rejig the milestones, but noting = that=20 > a bunch of (overdue) milestones are about to be completed it is moot=20 > whether we should rearrange them all. Basically, I am too lazy to do=20 > that and propose just to change the ones that are further out. >=20 > I would like to ask you all to look at this and comment. In = particular:=20 > are the document editors happy with these targets? >=20 > ADs - your opinions too, please. >=20 > The changes proposed are... > =3D=3D=3D > First paragraph > OLD > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining = a=20 > common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for=20 > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom=20 > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, = > ATM and Frame Relay switches, MPLS, GRE, in cooperation with the MPLS = WG. >=20 > NEW > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining = a=20 > common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for=20 > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom=20 > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, = > TDM switches, Ethernet switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, and = MPLS=20 > GRE, in cooperation with the MPLS WG. > =3D=3D=3D > Final paragraph > OLD > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the = following=20 > other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG will also=20 > cooperate with the ITU-T. >=20 > NEW > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the = following=20 > other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG will also=20 > cooperate with the ITU-T, and the IEEE 802.1. > =3D=3D=3D > Milestones (only those changed or new) >=20 > Aug 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > Aug 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > Sep 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain = issues=20 > for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG = review > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions=20 > I-D for IESG review > Sep 2007 First version WG I-Ds for control of Ethernet networks > Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region=20 > Networks I-D for IESG review > Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for = IESG=20 > review > Oct 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to cover = > RSVP-TE signaling extensions > Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG = review > Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review > Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for MIB = > doctor and IESG review > May 2008 Submit protocol extensions for control of Ethernet = networks=20 > for IESG review > Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group > =3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 >=20 >=20 > . >=20 From gjbrojeig@bramco.com.au Fri Aug 03 05:49:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGtmd-0004MU-HK; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 05:49:23 -0400 Received: from p57a7bcc8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.167.188.200]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGtYx-000403-SO; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 05:49:22 -0400 Received: from [87.167.188.200] by mx20.primeinternet.com.au; Fri, 3 Aug 2007 09:35:17 -0100 From: "Merrill Fox" To: Subject: Re[110]: Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 09:35:17 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7D5C2.5D9BC5D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Aca6QWW2G4P338VUCEAM4WKUUVO3Q4== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Message-ID: <01c7d5b1$9a12f5d0$c8bca757@gjbrojeig> X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e654cfa5e44bd623be3eb2c720858b05 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7D5C2.5D9BC5D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pledge loss administration system government officials ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7D5C2.5D9BC5D0 Content-Type: application/vnd.ms-excel; name="price.xls" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="price.xls" 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAIgAAAAAAAAAA EAAA/v///wAAAAD+////AAAAACEAAAD///////////////////////////////////////////// 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----ymzvdzppciryp2b7fl4ecj0ux46jo79-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Aug 04 12:37:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IHMdK-0008Gg-Qt for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2007 12:37:42 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IHMdH-00038l-1U for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2007 12:37:40 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IHMTR-000H6Y-VW for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:27:29 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [62.128.201.248] (helo=asmtp1.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IHMTE-000H59-SC for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:27:23 +0000 Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l74GREG3021514 for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:27:15 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l74GRDWq021503 for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:27:14 +0100 Message-ID: <03bf01c7d6b4$4ecc2ed0$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Draft liaison #3 - MRN/MLN Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:27:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fec852dbea6d068499ed3250edf328e2 Hi, ITU-T Study Group 15 Question 14 sent us a liaison with some detailed questions about the MLN Requirements and Evaluation I-Ds. The author teams of the two I-Ds have drafted a technical response which I have dressed up in suitable liaison-speak. Please review and send your comments. The liaison states in a couple of places that updates will be / have been made to the I-Ds. I am relying on the document editors to make these changes and submit the new revisions by 10th August so that they can be attached to the liaison. The liaison leaves us with the following timeline... 4th August : Post draft liaison to mailing list 10th August : Post any updates to the I-Ds 15th August : Send liaison 6th September : WG last call starts 10th September : ITU-T Q14/15 meet in Stuttgart 20th September : Deadline for responses from the ITU-T 21st September : WG last call ends Hoping this meets with your approval. Thanks, Adrian === From : IETF CCAMP Working Group To : ITU-T Study Group 15 Question 14 For : Action Deadline : 20 September 2007 Subject : Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networking The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your liaison titled "Follow up Liaison Statement to IETF CCAMP on Multi-Layer Networking" generated from your May 2007 interim meeting. This communication provides answers and explanations in response to the comments and questions that your liaison raised. As previously indicated, the CCAMP working group is ready to hold a working group last call on these two Internet-Drafts. However, in view of your comments and interest in this work we are delaying this last call to allow you to consider our responses and to provide further comments during your September interim meeting. Any additional comments that you supply will be treated as working group last call comments and handled accordingly. Working Group last call will complete on 21 September 2007 at 12 noon GMT. Please ensure that any comments are received by the IETF before that time. The latest copies of the drafts concerned can be found at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-03.txt and http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.txt draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs "1. General - Does this draft apply only to single service provider or do you envision it applying when there are multiple service providers? The ASON model (G.8080) allows for many different configurations of multilayer networks ranging from a single provider administering all layers and regions to a different provider per layer or region to several providers per layer or region. If two layers are under different administrative domains because they belong to two different providers, the amount of information that can be shared between the two domains is more limited than in the case where a single provider network provides resources at all layers." A customer network may be provided on top of the GMPLS-based multi-region/multi-layer network. It is indeed a strong motivator for the deployment of multi-region/multi-layer networks as described in Section 3.2 of the draft. This draft is, however, scoped to the assumption that the control plane and the data plane are under the responsibility of a single service provider and so constitute a single administrative domain. The MRN/MLN suite of documents makes no assumptions concerning the interfaces with other domains (e.g. UNI, E-NNI). In particular, the specific problem examined within the CCAMP MRN/MLN work is the integration of multiple network layers (that may be from different regions) within the same administrative domain. Requirements for multiple network layers under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. It should be noted that the term region used in the MRN/MLN suite of documents is as per IETF definition (see RFC4206). The statement will be added to Section 1 to articulate that this draft is scoped to the requirements for multi-layer networks under a single control plane and that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. "2. Section 3 - There is an example of several layers of a TDM region. The addition of a VCAT layer example would be more complete. For example, VC-4-7v." Thank you for this suggestion. We have integrated this example into the I-D. "3. Section 3.1 - The last paragraph mentions discontinuity when crossing a region boundary. We would like to point out that the ASON model does not have control plane discontinuity when crossing a region boundary as there are call controllers at each layer. Call controllers at both ends of adaptation into a server (lower) layer communicate with each other." There may be some misunderstanding of the term "discontinuity". In the context of this section of the draft, "discontinuity" indicates that it may not be possible to simply forward the signaling message (i.e. RSVP-TE Path message) from a node in one layer to a node in the next layer (even when stitching or 1:1 multiplexing is used) because there is a necessary change in some of the signaling objects (for example, the representation of bandwidth) at region boundaries. We may solve the discontinuity issue in a method similar to that of ASON by using triggered signaling or any of the other mechanisms described in this document. To help clear up the misunderstanding, the last paragraph of Section 3.1 will be rephrased. "4. Section 5.3 - Scalability problems can be minimized by the use of TED per region in case they are under separate administration or for scalability reason." It is correct to note that the use of a separate TED per region can improve the scalability. However, part of the objective of the MRN/MLN work is to allow full visibility from each network node into all participating layers/regions. Splitting the TED will not reduce the amount of information stored or flooded within the network. Indeed, as multiple switching capabilities can be advertised in a single TE-Link advertisement, the total number of entries in a TED should not differ much from a single layer network (although each entry may be a little larger). Furthermore, the number of TE Link advertisements should not differ much from a single layer network (although each advertisement may be slightly larger), thus not putting additional strain on the routing protocol flooding process. No scalability problems have been identified. Section 5.3 will be further clarified. "5. Section 5.8.2 - Virtual TE-links - We can think of two different models and are not sure which one is implied in this document. The first one is that a virtual TE-link represents server (lower) layer potential connectivity. The second one is that a virtual TE-link represents client (upper) layer potential connectivity. The first one requires knowledge of the adaptation capabilities by the client (upper) layer. The second does not require any knowledge of the adaptation capabilities or even the existence of the server (lower) layer and should also be a valid configuration. The second option may be required, for example, when the different layers are administered by different entities." The virtual TE-link represents lower layer potential connectivity. It may be helpful to recap some terminology. A TE Link is (as discussed in the GMPLS/ASON lexicography set out in RFC 4397) as logical routing element that allows path selection to be decoupled from resource assignment. Thus a TE Link is associated with one or more data links. This is equivalent to an SNPP link. A TE Link in one layer may, of course, be achieved by one or more LSPs in a lower layer. That is, an LSP in one layer may form a data link in an upper layer. A Virtual TE Link (again referencing RFC 4397) is a TE Link associated with zero data links. It is the potential for a TE Link, that may be used in path computation on the assumption that, if it is used, an attempt will be made dynamically to create the necessary data link(s). That is, to signal an LSP in a lower layer, to designate the LSP as a data link in the upper layer, and to assign the data link to the TE Link. Thus, the Virtual TE Link is dynamically converted into an actual TE Link. Advertisement of the Virtual TE Link is dependent (just as with a real TE Link) on the adaptation capabilities at the end points. The principal differences are that the lower layer network resources are not tied up when the Virtual TE Link has not been made real, and that the signaling process of the upper layer LSP might fail if the Virtual TE Link cannot be realized. "6. Section 4.2 - The last paragraph mentions that TE link advertisements may need to provide information about the node's internal adaptation capabilities in order to perform layer border node functions. It might be worth clarifying the instances where this is required versus not required. For example, if Virtual TE-links are used to represent the client (upper) layer connectivity, it is not necessary to advertise internal adaptation capabilities." There is no difference with respect to real or Virtual TE Links in this regard, and all TE Links (virtual or otherwise) must be considered with regard to their switching types and the adaptation capabilities of their end points. The adaptation capability, enables a node to discriminate the remote nodes (and thus allows their selection during a multi- region path computation) with respect to their adaptation capability. i.e., their capability to terminate LSPs at a given region. Please see also RFC4397 for adaptation capability definitions. draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval "1. Section 4.1.1.2 - Setting up virtual TE-links. We would like to understand why the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically. In terms of scalability, could a Virtual TE-link (assuming it represents server (lower) layer resources) be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? It is not clear from the draft whether this is allowed or not but we think it is essential in developing a scalable solution. In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, the identifier would have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer." First of all, please note again that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. Advertising the virtual TE-link into the "client" network, which is under different administrative domain, is out of scope of this document. The above question may be separated into three sub-questions as follows; Q1-a) Why do the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically? A1-a) It would be possible to automatically discover all potential connectivity across the lower layer network and to advertise a full mesh of Virtual TE Links. However, we believe that this scenario is unlikely to meet with the requirements of service providers who will want to apply their own operational policies. Such operational policies effectively install a management function (e.g., VNT Manager) between the analysis of the lower layer network connectivity, and the advertisement of Virtual TE Links. Q1-b) Could a Virtual TE-link be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? A1-b) In general, data link identifiers can be autogenerated and "discovered" through information exchange between adjacent nodes. TE Link identifiers can similarly be autogenerated, and exchanged and associated with data links. This, however, presupposes the existence of the data links when the TE Links are created. The virtual TE-link represents lower layer potential connectivity but does not have a lower layer data link committed. It must still be advertised so that they can be use in path computation. Virtual TE-link identifiers are assigned at both end points. They are logical ones and are not necessarily identical to any identifiers associated with the real physical interfaces. They may be picked from a local pool of identifiers at both end points and exchanged between the both end points. On the other hand, assigning the identifier associated with a real physical interface to the Virtual TE-link is not precluded. Clearly configuration (manual or through an automated process such as the Virtual Network Topology Manager) may provide this information in this case. The use of LMP for exchange of information for Virtual TE Links is for future study. Q-c) In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, the identifier would have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer? A1-c) The virtual TE-link does not represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity. "2. Section 4.1.1.3 - Traffic disruption minimization during FA release. In case disruption is required in the server (lower) layer, we think there is also an option to signal to the adaptation points and let them re-establish the server (lower) layer as opposed to rely on the head-end LSRs in the client (upper) layer." Section 4.1.1.3 does not specify nor preclude any mechanism to deal with traffic disruption. In the context of the MRN/MLN, upper layer LSPs may be routed over FAs. For reasons outside the scope of these documents, an FA may need to be released or rerouted. This may have a disruptive effect on the LSPs using this FA in the sense that this would induce a route change of these upper layer LSPs. Only the head-end LSR of an (FA-)LSP is responsible for re-routing or releasing FA-LSPs. As such head-end LSRs ("adaptation points" as stated in the question) are responsible for rerouting/releasing FA-LSPs and head-end LSRs of the upper layer LSPs are responsible for rerouting the LSPs they control. The adaptation points can NOT take responsibility for rerouting upper layers LSPs over other (newly established or not) FAs if they are not head-end LSRs of the upper-layer LSPs but only intermediate LSRs for these LSPs The data link created in an upper layer by an FA LSP may be a protected data link (in the meaning of link level protection - see RFC 3471). This link level protection may be achieved by end-to-end protection of the FA LSP, or through any other LSP protection scheme including LSP restoration. This case seems to match what you have described, but note that the process of switching traffic (i.e. the nested LSP) from one FA LSP to another is likely to cause a small traffic hit in all but packet/frame technologies. We would like to thank you for your detailed enquiry into this topic, and hope that you feel that the discussion has been fruitful. 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----qycn5mvv13lp3a6noqfayolzt9599956-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sun Aug 05 06:09:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IHd2x-0007CM-KE for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2007 06:09:15 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IHd2w-00060U-84 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2007 06:09:15 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IHcuQ-000HqK-B9 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sun, 05 Aug 2007 10:00:26 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [156.154.24.139] (helo=ns4.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IHcuB-000Hos-BB for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2007 10:00:20 +0000 Received: from ietf.org (stiedprweb1.va.neustar.com [10.91.34.42]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B9392AC77; Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:00:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mirror by ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IHcu9-0000PM-SH; Sun, 05 Aug 2007 06:00:09 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: greg.jones@itu.int Cc: Stephen Trowbridge , Kam Lam , Scott Bradner , Ross Callon , Dave Ward , Deborah Brungard , CCAMP Mailing List , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Re-review of ASON Routing Requirements" Reply-To: Adrian Farrel Message-Id: Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 06:00:09 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Title: Re-review of ASON Routing Requirements Submission Date: 2007-08-05 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=356 Please reply by 2008-02-27 From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) To: ITU-T SG15(greg.jones@itu.int) Cc: Stephen Trowbridge Kam Lam Scott Bradner Ross Callon Dave Ward Deborah Brungard CCAMP Mailing List Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Purpose: For comment Body: The IETF CCAMP working group has become aware from the chair of ITU-T Study Group 15 Working Party 3 that there are concerns within ITU-T Study Group 15 regarding the correlation of the IETF RFCs and corresponding ITU Recommendations. The specific RFCs in question are: RFC 4258 Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Routing for the Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4258.txt RFC 4652 Evaluation of Existing Routing Protocols against Automatic Switched Optical Network (ASON) Routing Requirements http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4652.txt We believe that there may have been some developments in the ITU-T Recommendations since the completion of the RFCs (especially G.7715, G.7715.1, G.7715.2, and G.8080) that may result in desired updates to the RFCs. We also understand that there may be some long-standing concerns about some technical details in the RFCs. In the former case we would welcome pointers to the relevant sections in the Recommendations, and your analysis of what we should do with the referenced material. Specifically, what changes you believe are necessary to the RFCs, and in which sections those changes should be applied. In the latter case we would appreciate a restatement of the concerns. Given the previous attempts to ensure correlation between the work of the IETF and ITU-T, we suggest that it may be advantageous to present these concerns in new words, and providing as much technical detail as possible. Many thanks for your consideration of this issue. 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XtraSize+ has been labelled an "Herbal Breakthrough" From bkfk@usaf.com Sun Aug 05 14:47:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IHl8b-0001VQ-6w for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2007 14:47:37 -0400 Received: from [117.53.204.117] (helo=ebbah) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IHl8Z-0008AI-Ct for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2007 14:47:36 -0400 Received: from [91.34.193.26] (helo=wnapt) by ebbah with smtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) id 1II_dA-0007YC-Jm; Mon, 6 Aug 2007 03:52:20 +0900 Message-ID: <000401c7d791$1503f880$1ac1225b@wnapt> From: "Childs D. Hope" To: Subject: Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 03:47:32 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C7D7DC.84D9ED40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4927.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 5df1f98f3253c63b673ea560243aa58f ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C7D7DC.84D9ED40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C7D7DC.84DE5A10" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C7D7DC.84DE5A10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C7D7DC.84DE5A10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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T0YK ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C7D7DC.84D9ED40-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sun Aug 05 20:03:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IHq44-0002Tf-MS for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2007 20:03:16 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IHq44-0006rb-8k for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2007 20:03:16 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IHptj-000In6-Qv for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sun, 05 Aug 2007 23:52:35 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [216.82.250.83] (helo=mail120.messagelabs.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IHptY-000Imb-Pr for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2007 23:52:30 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: dbrungard@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-4.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1186357941!24128855!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.12.11; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.54] Received: (qmail 13778 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2007 23:52:22 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp7.sbc.com (HELO mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.54) by server-4.tower-120.messagelabs.com with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 5 Aug 2007 23:52:22 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l75NqLAb003535 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2007 19:52:21 -0400 Received: from OCCLUST04EVS1.ugd.att.com (ocst07.ugd.att.com [135.38.164.12]) by mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l75NqEXM003514 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2007 19:52:15 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7D7BB.A5F2DE7C" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: Draft ccamp minutes - Chicago Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 18:52:12 -0500 Message-ID: <449B2580D802A443A923DABF3EAB82AF0EBC00FA@OCCLUST04EVS1.ugd.att.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Draft ccamp minutes - Chicago Thread-Index: AcfXu6SYoLeOF/6kRru/sCDOb0BCrQ== From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" To: Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7D7BB.A5F2DE7C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WG, =20 The draft minutes are uploaded: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/minutes/ccamp.htm =20 Much thanks to Michael Dueser for the first session notes, and Michael and Martin Vigoureux for the second session notes. Much appreciate. =20 There are a few missing items on some of the more active dialogues at the mike, so if you recall what you said;-), send, and we'll update. =20 Deborah and Adrian =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7D7BB.A5F2DE7C Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WG,
 
The = draft minutes=20 are uploaded:
http://= www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/minutes/ccamp.htm
=
 
Much = thanks to=20 Michael Dueser for the first session notes, and Michael and Martin = Vigoureux for=20 the second session notes. Much appreciate.
 
There = are a few=20 missing items on some of the more active dialogues at the mike, so if = you recall=20 what you said;-), send, and we'll update.
 
Deborah and=20 Adrian
 
 
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(v2.00.6) Educational Reply-To: terry@netique.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <297773091.63260665364325@netique.com> To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: Personal Message No. 582535591 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea I am Ekaterina, but you can call me Katya. I am from Moscow, Russia. I am dreaming to find my real man. Maybe this is you? What do you think about it? Please, send me a reply here: ekaterina@cros-4u.net From jhu05eqbn@pep.pemex.com Mon Aug 06 09:31:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1II2gP-0007zC-PH; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:31:41 -0400 Received: from 125-26-36-245.adsl.totbb.net ([125.26.36.245] helo=gyng) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1II2gO-0000ER-Te; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:31:41 -0400 To: From: "Brett Francie" Subject: not enough SPERM/CUM? increase 5x more with this oju Message-ID: <6795e38748.75059s50970923@pep.pemex.com> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 20:31:09 +0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 ::Cum Pills : Increase Ejaculate:: * Longer0rgasms - Squirt for longer * Erections like steel - Also increased size * Increaase Sexual desire - Enhanced libido * More Staying Power - Last all night * Multiple0rgasms - Cum 4 times in a row * 5x more sperm - Cover your lover in it * Sweeter taste - It improves the flavor Order today our cum pills here http://szzxe.aesaysforce.com Buy more save more http://sgzjm.aesaysforce.com wine sale or among ticket? pleasure money quickly, From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Aug 06 10:04:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1II3Cd-0007YD-6b for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 10:04:59 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1II3Cc-000128-73 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 10:04:59 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1II34J-000EHz-5r for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 13:56:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [62.128.201.249] (helo=asmtp2.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1II347-000EHE-9Y for CCamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 13:56:17 +0000 Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l76Du8oC006736 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2007 14:56:09 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l76Du0og006610 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2007 14:56:06 +0100 Message-ID: <04eb01c7d831$8485d930$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Non-member submission from ["Igor Bryskin" ] Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 14:55:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21be852dc93f0971708678c18d38c096 > Hi, > > Please, see my comments in line. > > Igor > > "5. Section 5.8.2 - Virtual TE-links - We can think of two > different models and are not sure which one is implied in > this document. The first one is that a virtual TE-link > represents server (lower) layer potential connectivity. > The second one is that a virtual TE-link represents > client (upper) layer potential connectivity. The first > one requires knowledge of the adaptation capabilities by > the client (upper) layer. The second does not require any > knowledge of the adaptation capabilities or even the > existence of the server (lower) layer and should also be > a valid configuration. The second option may be required, > for example, when the different layers are administered > by different entities." > > The virtual TE-link represents lower layer potential > connectivity. It may be helpful to recap some terminology. > > A TE Link is (as discussed in the GMPLS/ASON lexicography set > out in RFC 4397) as logical routing element that allows path > selection to be decoupled from resource assignment. Thus a TE > Link is associated with one or more data links. This is > equivalent to an SNPP link. > > A TE Link in one layer may, of course, be achieved by one or > more LSPs in a lower layer. That is, an LSP in one layer may > form a data link in an upper layer. > > A Virtual TE Link (again referencing RFC 4397) is a TE Link > associated with zero data links. It is the potential for a TE > Link, that may be used in path computation on the assumption > that, if it is used, an attempt will be made dynamically to > create the necessary data link(s). That is, to signal an LSP > in a lower layer, to designate the LSP as a data link in the > upper layer, and to assign the data link to the TE Link. > Thus, the Virtual TE Link is dynamically converted into an > actual TE Link. > > Advertisement of the Virtual TE Link is dependent (just as > with a real TE Link) on the adaptation capabilities at the > end points. The principal differences are that the lower > layer network resources are not tied up when the Virtual TE > Link has not been made real, and that the signaling process > of the upper layer LSP might fail if the Virtual TE Link > cannot be realized. > > > IB>> The ITU folks are asking here a very good question, and IMO we are > not responding correctly. VC4 connection (server layer) could be > advertised as a TE link in VC12 layer network (client layer). This could > be done only if VC4 resources at the edges of the VC4 trail have the > necessary adaptation capability (that is to adopt VC12 signal). If the > VC12 TE link is advertised, then there is an implicit advertisement that > the client signal (VC12) can be adopted over the server trail (VC4), and > there is no need to advertise VC12/VC4 adaptation capability. Having > said this, it should be noted that the VC12 link advertisement may > contain adaptation capability for *potential clients* of the VC12, so > that a VC12 connection terminated on one of the ends of the advertised > link could be considered for advertising as a TE link into a higher > layer. > > So, my answer would be as follows. > > As far as client layer network is concerned, there is no difference > between virtual and real TE link. In both cases the link is connectivity > in the client layer (that is, model #2 as it stated in the question). > The link advertisement should not contain adaptation capability for this > client/server pair, but may contain adaptation capability for higher > client/client pair. > The server layer is the only one who distinguishes virtual from real TE > link, because in the latter case the trail is created only when it is > needed, while in the former case it is created proactively. Thus, > virtual TE link is associated with potential connection/trail in the > lower layer (that is, it is not potential connectivity in the lower > layer as stated in the response). > > > "1. Section 4.1.1.2 - Setting up virtual TE-links. We would > like to understand why the virtual TE-links need to be > created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically. > In terms of scalability, could a Virtual TE-link (assuming > it represents server (lower) layer resources) be assigned > a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated > to one or more link identifiers? It is not clear from the > draft whether this is allowed or not but we think it is > essential in developing a scalable solution. In case the > virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer > potential connectivity, the identifier would have to be > virtual as it would represent potential adaptation > capability into a server (lower) layer." > > First of all, please note again that the requirements for > multi-layer networks under different administrative domains > are out of scope of this document. Advertising the virtual > TE-link into the "client" network, which is under different > administrative domain, is out of scope of this document. > > The above question may be separated into three sub-questions > as follows; > > Q1-a) Why do the virtual TE-links need to be created as > opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically? > A1-a) It would be possible to automatically discover all > potential connectivity across the lower layer network > and to advertise a full mesh of Virtual TE Links. > However, we believe that this scenario is unlikely to > meet with the requirements of service providers who > will want to apply their own operational policies. > Such operational policies effectively install a > management function (e.g., VNT Manager) between the > analysis of the lower layer network connectivity, and > the advertisement of Virtual TE Links. > > Q1-b) Could a Virtual TE-link be assigned a virtual link > identifier that may be locally associated to one or > more link identifiers? > A1-b) In general, data link identifiers can be autogenerated > and "discovered" through information exchange between > adjacent nodes. TE Link identifiers can similarly be > autogenerated, and exchanged and associated with data > links. This, however, presupposes the existence of the > data links when the TE Links are created. > > The virtual TE-link represents lower layer potential > connectivity but does not have a lower layer data link > committed.=20 > > IB>> I disagree. The virtual TE link represents client layer > connectivity but unlike real TE link does not have the trail in the > server layer just yet. > > It must still be advertised so that they can > be use in path computation. Virtual TE-link identifiers > are assigned at both end points. They are logical ones > and are not necessarily identical to any identifiers > associated with the real physical interfaces. They may > be picked from a local pool of identifiers at both end > points and exchanged between the both end points. On > the other hand, assigning the identifier associated > with a real physical interface to the Virtual TE-link > is not precluded. Clearly configuration (manual or > through an automated process such as the Virtual > Network Topology Manager) may provide this information > in this case. The use of LMP for exchange of > information for Virtual TE Links is for future study. > > Q-c) In case the virtual TE-link could represent client > (upper) layer potential connectivity, the identifier > would have to be virtual as it would represent > potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) > layer? > A1-c) The virtual TE-link does not represent client (upper) > layer potential connectivity. > IB>> Again, see my comment above. Virtual or real TE link in a given > layer represents connectivity in this layer. It is not a potential > connectivity in the lower layer; rather, it is potential connection > (trail) in the lower layer. > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Aug 06 10:19:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1II3QO-0006EJ-4O for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 10:19:12 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1II3QN-0001Pn-Lq for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 10:19:11 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1II3Ii-000FZq-Dc for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 14:11:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [202.99.23.227] (helo=people.com.cn) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1II3IW-000FYa-Of for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 14:11:10 +0000 Received: from people.com.cn([127.0.0.1]) by people.com.cn(AIMC 2.9.5.8) with SMTP id jm446b774e7; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 22:22:59 +0800 Received: from megatron.ietf.org([156.154.16.145]) by people.com.cn(AIMC 2.9.5.8) with SMTP id jmc546b2455a; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:22:29 +0800 Received: from megatron.ietf.org([156.154.16.145]) by people.com.cn(AIMC 2.9.5.8) with SMTP id AISP action; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:22:29 +0800 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGgxr-0008Dd-4q; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:08:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGgxo-0008AA-A3 for ietf-announce@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:08:04 -0400 Received: from ns0.neustar.com ([156.154.16.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IGgxn-0000wa-5T for ietf-announce@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:08:04 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2323E3289C; Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:08:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IGgxn-0005HJ-18; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:08:03 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Message-Id: Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:08:03 -0400 X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp (A Per-domain path computation method for establishing Inter-domain Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs)) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: ietf-announce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: ietf-announce.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-AIMC-AUTH: (null) X-AIMC-MAILFROM: ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org X-AIMC-AUTH: (null) X-AIMC-MAILFROM: iesg-secretary@ietf.org X-Auto-Forward: jaglee@people.com.cn jag@kw.com.cn Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a The IESG has received a request from the Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) to consider the following document: - 'A Per-domain path computation method for establishing Inter-domain Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-08-16. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. 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------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7D908.1DD36EF0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Aug 07 10:25:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIQ0B-0003mF-2o for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:25:39 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIQ0A-0000wt-HH for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:25:39 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IIPq7-00083I-H2 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:15:15 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO, MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.8 Received: from [156.154.16.158] (helo=ns0.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IIPpw-00080S-Iy for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:15:10 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88214328A2; Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IIPpu-0003xF-Dx; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:15:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:15:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f66b12316365a3fe519e75911daf28a8 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Requirements for the Conversion Between Permanent Connections and Switched Connections in a Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Network Author(s) : D. Caviglia, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2007-8-7 From a Carrier perspective, the possibility of turning a Permanent Connection (PC) into a Soft Permanent Connection (SPC) and vice versa, without actually affecting Data Plane traffic being carried over it, is a valuable option. In other terms, such operation can be seen as a way of transferring the ownership and control of an existing and in-use Data Plane connection between the Management Plane and the Control Plane, leaving its Data Plane state untouched. This memo sets out the requirements for such procedures within a Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) network. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-7091559.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-7091559.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Aug 07 13:07:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IISWP-0003ua-GL for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:07:05 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IISWO-0000tk-OA for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:07:04 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IISOx-000PVO-72 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:59:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [62.128.201.248] (helo=asmtp1.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IISOX-000PR6-RH for CCAMP@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:59:07 +0000 Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l77GwTmf011353 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:58:29 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l77GwRBc011311 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:58:29 +0100 Message-ID: <071301c7d914$2a780330$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: References: Subject: Non-member submission from [Sukrit Dasgupta ] Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:58:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab ----- Original Message ----- > To: dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be > Cc: JP Vasseur , > Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira , > ccamp@ops.ietf.org > From: Sukrit Dasgupta > Subject: Comments/Feedback on > draft-dasgupta-ccamp-path-comp-analysis-00.txt > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:54:20 -0400 > > Hi Dimitri, > > With respect to our discussion on the floor at CCAMP, it would be > great to get your comments/feedback on draft-dasgupta-ccamp-path-comp- > analysis-00.txt/pdf. 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7D92E.EB41CEB0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Aug 07 20:45:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIZfx-0004Zj-B6 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:45:25 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIZfw-0000SC-0I for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:45:25 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IIZWr-000Mjv-36 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 00:36:01 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME, USER_IN_DEF_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.1.8 Received: from [128.9.168.207] (helo=bosco.isi.edu) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IIZWg-000MjG-9c for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 00:35:55 +0000 Received: by bosco.isi.edu (Postfix, from userid 70) id 9BA52DF442; Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:35:24 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org Subject: RFC 4974 on Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in Support of Calls From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-Id: <20070808003524.9BA52DF442@bosco.isi.edu> Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:35:24 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3002fc2e661cd7f114cb6bae92fe88f1 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 4974 Title: Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in Support of Calls Author: D. Papadimitriou, A. Farrel Status: Standards Track Date: August 2007 Mailbox: dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be, adrian@olddog.co.uk Pages: 31 Characters: 72000 Updates: RFC3473 See-Also: I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-te-call-04.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4974.txt In certain networking topologies, it may be advantageous to maintain associations between endpoints and key transit points to support an instance of a service. Such associations are known as Calls. A Call does not provide the actual connectivity for transmitting user traffic, but only builds a relationship by which subsequent Connections may be made. In Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) such Connections are known as Label Switched Paths (LSPs). This document specifies how GMPLS Resource Reservation Protocol - Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) signaling may be used and extended to support Calls. These mechanisms provide full and logical Call/Connection separation. The mechanisms proposed in this document are applicable to any environment (including multi-area), and for any type of interface: packet, layer-2, time-division multiplexed, lambda, or fiber switching. [STANDARDS TRACK] This document is a product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements.Please refer to the current edition of the Internet Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG Subject: getting rfcs help: ways_to_get_rfcs Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC Authors, for further information. The RFC Editor Team USC/Information Sciences Institute ... From foronda@tranor.no Wed Aug 08 04:44:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIh9T-0003rb-NR for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 04:44:25 -0400 Received: from korhazfw.hodtav.hu ([85.90.183.138]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIh9E-0000gD-7m for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 04:44:22 -0400 Received: from muto1 ([166.185.109.85] helo=muto1) by korhazfw.hodtav.hu ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1jSMqf-000MKX-YX for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:42:34 +0200 Message-ID: <000c01c7d997$fed54fb0$8ab75a55@muto1> From: "Brans foronda" To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Technical Analysis-ccamp-archive Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:42:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7D9A8.C25BAEB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 681e62a2ce9b0804b459fe780d892beb ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7D9A8.C25BAEB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C7D9A8.C25BAEB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C7D9A8.C25BAEB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C7D9A8.C25BAEB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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1IIl5J-0001hO-TT for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:56:21 -0400 Received: from aaxa129.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.6.86.129]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIl5I-0006Li-VV for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:56:21 -0400 Received: from [83.6.86.129] by mxlb.ispgateway.de; Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:56:30 -0100 Message-ID: <01c7d9bb$8a21ef60$81560653@linfingerhochmet> From: "Tommy Hoffmann" To: Subject: Mehr Erfolg bei Geldanlagen Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:56:30 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2905 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2905 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Sehr geehrter Investor, Sie wollen mehr. Mehr Erfolg bei Geldanlagen. Eine exzellente Rendite im Aktiengeschaeft. Eine hoehere Verzinsung Ihres Depots. Aber nicht um jeden Preis, nicht mit jedem Risiko. Denn Sie kennen die Boerse – ihre guten Seiten, und die schlechten. Sie wissen um den grossen Enthusiasmus und die tiefe Enttaeuschung, um Bulle und Baer. Die Geschichte wiederholt sich, wie bei Tier Spezi und IHP – jetzt hat die Aktie das absolute Minimum erreicht, und gleich steigt der Kurs, die Gesellschaft entwickelt sich und der Preis kann +150% erreichen. HEPAS ASSOCIATED MEDIA AG WKN A0MJ2U Boerse Frankfurt ISIN CH0029095327 Fazit: Mit HEPAS ASSOCIATED MEDIA haben wir wieder einmal eine noch weitgehend unerkannte Wachstumsperle fuer Sie entdeckt! Disclaimer: Die Agentur haelt keine Aktien an dem empfohlenen Unternehmen. Die Empfehlung ist nach bestem Gewissen ausgearbeitet worden. Die Agentur uebernimmt fuer die erwartete Performance keine Haftung. Sie erhaelt eine marktuebliche Verguetung. Viel Erfolg, Dr. Tommy Hoffmann From ciqee77ybo@digitalriver.com Wed Aug 08 09:30:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIlc2-0001wt-I9; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 09:30:10 -0400 Received: from [62.204.129.129] (helo=fvzqodk) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIlc1-0007Ne-QM; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 09:30:10 -0400 To: From: "Jerri Bridgett" Subject: We sell both BRAND(100% original) & GENERIC(35% cheaper) medications, Up to 70% saving mgh Message-ID: <14001w95955.2357m71909273@digitalriver.com> Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:30:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--pbxfzn1hky1u4q0zenc6sq063tqbatfw" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 ----pbxfzn1hky1u4q0zenc6sq063tqbatfw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RELIABLE PHARMACY - Pick the meds you want to order & checkout (2 steps to finish an order) - Fast delivery to your doorstep - We sell both BRAND(100% original brand) & GENERIC(35% cheaper) - We give up to 70% discount (on retail shop price) for BOTH brand & generic meds - Meds we sell: Cia|lisViagra, AmbiemValium, AtivanXanax, CelebrexSoma, PhenterminMeridia & other 20 popular meds http://bpmnqt.afchairwas.com http://bpleq.afchairwas.com ----pbxfzn1hky1u4q0zenc6sq063tqbatfw Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
RELIABLE PHARMACY
- Pick the meds you want to order & checkout (2 steps to finish an order)
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View all medications we have (1st link)

If above link not load up, try this 2nd link
likely between reading sorry each hat among, with full better spot embarrass. ----pbxfzn1hky1u4q0zenc6sq063tqbatfw-- From acharaohcb@gofactory.de Wed Aug 08 09:44:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIlpP-0004Ps-VG for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 09:44:00 -0400 Received: from [89.233.235.140] (helo=[89.233.235.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIlpP-0007o2-8b for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 09:43:59 -0400 Received: from Theduuude ([188.168.188.39]) by [89.233.235.140] with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:44:35 +0200 Message-ID: <000801c7d9c2$2df719c0$8cebe959@Theduuude> From: "Danielle achara" To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: Income report-ccamp-archive Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:44:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7D9D2.F17FE9C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: d11a451997816a91a305dcb5ab1b85dd ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7D9D2.F17FE9C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C7D9D2.F17FE9C0" ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C7D9D2.F17FE9C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C7D9D2.F17FE9C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7D9D2.F17FE9C0-- From cfournier@assu2000.fr Wed Aug 08 11:47:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IInih-0007HE-8d; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 11:45:11 -0400 Received: from [194.45.219.10] (helo=VMISERVER) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIneC-0002Lx-Gy; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 11:40:40 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 254.216.64.244 by smtp.194.45.219.10; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 11:39:09 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Juanita Connor" Reply-To: "Juanita Connor" To: btdirectory@ietf.org Subject: Luxurious costume repl1ca w4tches at lowest prices Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 11:39:09 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 With hundreds of models to choose from, rock bottom prices and the best customer service in the whole wide web, Prest1ge Repl1cas has become the standard by which repl1ca w4tches 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Just when you thought Prest1ge Repl1cas couldn't get any better, they have improved the perfect w4tch shopping experience! http://www.aracteroo.com/ From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 08 18:41:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIuDp-0008BO-9F for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 18:41:45 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIuDo-0004Km-PZ for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 18:41:45 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IIu5O-0001rl-2B for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 22:33:02 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [156.154.24.139] (helo=ns4.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IIu5D-0001r3-2J for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 22:32:56 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259362AC49; Wed, 8 Aug 2007 22:32:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IIu5B-0001U4-Ol; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 18:32:49 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Cc: Internet Architecture Board , RFC Editor , ccamp mailing list , ccamp chair Subject: Protocol Action: 'Extensions to GMPLS RSVP Graceful Restart' to Proposed Standard Message-Id: Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 18:32:49 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Extensions to GMPLS RSVP Graceful Restart ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt Technical Summary This document describes extensions to the RSVP Graceful Restart mechanisms defined in RFC 3473. The extensions enable the recovery of RSVP signaling state based on the Path message last sent by the node being restarted. Previously defined Graceful Restart mechanisms, also called recovery from nodal faults, permit recovery of signaling state from adjacent nodes when the data plane has retained the associated forwarding state across a restart. Those mechanisms do not fully support signaling state recovery on ingress nodes or recovery of all RSVP objects. The extensions defined in this document build on the RSVP Hello extensions defined in RFC 3209, and extensions for state recovery on nodal faults defined in RFC 3473. Using these extensions the restarting node can recover all previously transmitted Path state including the Explicit Route Object and the downstream (outgoing) interface identifiers. The extensions can also be used to recover signaling state after the restart of an ingress node. The extensions optionally support the use of Summary Refresh, defined in RFC 2961, to reduce the number of messages exchanged during the Recovery Phase when the restarting node has recovered signaling state locally for one or more LSPs. Working Group Summary no dissent reported (see PROTO writeup by Adrian Farrel) Protocol Quality Ross Callon reviewed this for the IESG. There are implementations and it is reported that there is some deployment by "optical vendors" (presumably optical switches). From rxexv@knisleylaw.com Wed Aug 08 23:31:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIykT-0003uA-8P for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 23:31:45 -0400 Received: from [203.156.49.106] (helo=tvik) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IIykP-00009x-So for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 23:31:45 -0400 Received: from [39.176.80.73] (helo=phukq) by tvik with smtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) id 1IJpJ-0001Ze-NG; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:36:45 +0700 Message-ID: <001601c7da35$d3ec9e90$4950b027@phukq> From: "Richardson Hester" To: Subject: answer Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:31:52 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7DA70.803E0910" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2499 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2499 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 223e3c753032a50d5dc4443c921c3fcd ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7DA70.803E0910 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7DA70.80416470" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7DA70.80416470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7DA70.80416470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 09 14:27:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJCj2-0007BZ-KH for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:27:12 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJCj1-00010P-5b for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:27:12 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IJCXS-000AKE-QS for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:15:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO, MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.8 Received: from [156.154.16.158] (helo=ns0.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IJCXH-000AIR-Rs for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:15:09 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40AA6328E4; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IJCXG-000485-31; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:15:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt Message-Id: Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:15:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration Author(s) : K. Shiomoto Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2007-8-9 The migration from Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering (TE) to Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) is the process of evolving an MPLS-TE control plane to a GMPLS control plane. An appropriate migration strategy will be selected based on various factors including the service provider's network deployment plan, customer demand, and operational policy. This document presents several migration models and strategies for migrating from MPLS-TE to GMPLS. In the course of migration, MPLS-TE and GMPLS devices, or networks, may coexist which may require interworking between MPLS-TE and GMPLS protocols. Aspects of the interworking required are discussed as it will influence the choice of a migration strategy. 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A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-9133509.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-9133509.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 09 14:51:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJD6O-0003DH-Dp for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:51:20 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJD6O-0004Qs-2y for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:51:20 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IJCxe-000DTv-QS for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:42:18 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from [62.128.201.248] (helo=asmtp1.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IJCxS-000DSl-Tz for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:42:13 +0000 Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l79Ig48A006118 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:42:05 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l79Ig2rT006042 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:42:03 +0100 Message-ID: <09a101c7dab4$f6cae910$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Working Group last call on MPLS/GMPLS interworking and migration Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:41:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Hi, . Two working group drafts have reached the position where the authors consider them ready for last call (actually, a whole bunch have arrived there at the same time, but we want to dribble them through the last call process). These two documents concern the operation of MPLS over GMPLS, and the migration from MPLS to GMPLS. The "Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration" is (the rather poorly named) http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt The "Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS Networks" are in http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt The documents are both Informational. Please send your comments (preferably to the list) by the end of WG last call which will be 12 noon GMT 24th August 2007. Thanks, Adrian From Irispead@lasmajadas.com Thu Aug 09 14:54:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJD9Q-0000C7-CC for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:54:28 -0400 Received: from dfe65.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.23.134.65]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJD9P-0004as-4e for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:54:27 -0400 Received: from sad-25mucmjb7t0 ([157.163.134.137]) by lasmajadas.com.local (8.13.2/8.13.2) with SMTP id KgNAkNWXSU3856; Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:22:51 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c7d99d$b0c594a0$41861753@sad25mucmjb7t0> From: "Iris pead" To: Subject: Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:22:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7D9AE.744E64A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7D9AE.744E64A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable L.I.V.E F.R.O.M T.H.E S.T.R.E.E.T! 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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:30:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 Hi, We discussed this on the list before Chicago and raised it during the meeting. There was no objection to adopting the draft. Authors, please repost the I-D as draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt with no changes except to boilerplate. Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:19 PM Subject: Re: Support for draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt as WG I-D? >I hear no dissent. > > We'll float the idea in front of the meeting in Chicago to give one last > chance for any complaints and then move forwards immediately after > Chicago. > > Thanks, > Adrian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adrian Farrel" > To: "Dan Li" ; "ccamp" > Cc: "Deborah A. Brungard" ; "Arun Satyanarayana" > > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 1:40 PM > Subject: Support for draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt as WG I-D? > > >> Hi, >> >> In Prague we found that there was some support for this work, and no >> opposition. >> >> There were questions regarding clarifying that the work does not define >> new process or procedures, but explains how existing procedures (i.e. >> draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-08.txt) can be applied in a variety of >> situations. I think that this revision has included this clarification. >> >> There was a request to broaden the draft to cover all scenarios (not just >> multi-node as before), and this has been done. >> >> There was concern about whether there was "service provider" interest in >> this work. In fact, several of the hands raised to express interest >> worked for service providers. But I am not personally convinced that this >> Informational work needs strong support from that sector. More to the >> point would be support from the vendors who need to agree how they will >> operate draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext. >> >> So, I'd like to ask the WG whether there is support to make this I-D a WG >> draft. >> If we do, I would like to see it complete quite quickly. It would need: >> - review by vendors to make sure it is accurate >> - a bit more text on security issues >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dan Li" >> To: "ccamp" >> Cc: "Deborah A. Brungard" ; "Farrel, Adrian" >> ; "Arun Satyanarayana" >> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 2:08 AM >> Subject: New draft: draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt >> >> >>> Dear CCAMPers, >>> >>> We have published a "new" I-D: >>> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt >>> >>> This I-D replaces the previous I-D >>> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/draft-li-ccamp-multinodes-gr-proc-01.txt. >>> >>> According to the discussion in Prague meeting, we have: >>> 1) Changed draft to be Informational. 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helo=userf998729304) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJaMA-0004DP-HL for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:41:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1c2201c7db86$6944b6c0$6401a8c0@userf998729304> From: "Lacey Clifford" To: Subject: Fwd: Thank you, we are ready to lend some cash Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:38:14 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1C1E_01C7DB86.6944B6C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1C1E_01C7DB86.6944B6C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your credit score does not matter to us! 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Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 453b1bfcf0292bffe4cab90ba115f503 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C7DBF5.96FD4680 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01C7DBF5.96FD4680" ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C7DBF5.96FD4680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attach. http://www.kapiv.cn/ ----- She caught the hesitation in h The elder nodded. No need to g Youre certain of this, Duncan? I am, he answered. There wont ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C7DBF5.96FD4680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7DC2F.800FA0F0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Aug 11 12:19:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJtgM-0000jE-AL for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:19:18 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJtgL-000161-S0 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:19:18 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IJtRM-0002GY-ST for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:03:48 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IJtRB-0002Fo-Qf; Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:03:43 +0000 Message-ID: <46BDDDBD.50005@psg.com> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:03:09 +0200 From: dimitri papadimitriou Reply-To: dpapadimitriou@psg.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: CCAMP@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Non-member submission from [Sukrit Dasgupta ] References: <071301c7d914$2a780330$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <071301c7d914$2a780330$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 hi here are my comments on this document: Need to distinguish the different crankback methodologies when carrying out comparisons (source, per domain/area, etc.) Section 3 needs way better refined definitions before drawing conclusions - as examplest that section states: "With the PD or PCE approach, the signaling of a TE LSP my fail because of lack of synchronization between the Traffic Engineering Database (TED) used by the computing entity and the actual link reservation state." fair but why then the following is observed (Section 5.3) "Figures 2e and 3e shows the distribution of the total number of signaling failures experienced by the TE LSPs during setup. About 38% and 55% of TE LSPs for MESH-CORE and SYM-CORE, respectively, experience a signaling failures with per-domain path computation when link failures take place in the network. In contrast, only about 3% of the TE LSPs experience signaling failures with the PCE method. It should be noted that the signaling failures experienced with the PCE correspond only to the TEDs being out of date." from "As discussed in the previous sections, signaling failures occur either due to an outdated TED or when a path cannot be found from theselected entry border router." one can deduce that the delta is resulting from "With the PD approach, another situation leading to a signaling failure is when the selected exit domain router does not have any path obeying the set of constraints toward a downstream exit node or the TE LSP destination." why the TED is not populated with that information for PD path computation purposes such to have comparable working assumptions ? (in other terms why only the BRPC method benefits from this advantage ?) comparisons shall be done with identical TED otherwise you don't need experiments by definition having less critical information leeds to such results the observation is thus not that BRPC is better than PD computation but that BOTH techniques needs to have certain information about links inter-connecting domains to decrease the blocking/failure probability. thanks, -d. Adrian Farrel wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- >> To: dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be >> Cc: JP Vasseur , >> Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira , >> ccamp@ops.ietf.org >> From: Sukrit Dasgupta >> Subject: Comments/Feedback on >> draft-dasgupta-ccamp-path-comp-analysis-00.txt >> Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:54:20 -0400 >> >> Hi Dimitri, >> >> With respect to our discussion on the floor at CCAMP, it would be >> great to get your comments/feedback on draft-dasgupta-ccamp-path-comp- >> analysis-00.txt/pdf. This would help to further proceed with the draft. >> >> Thanks, >> Sukrit > > > > > . > From francesco.tue@brianbsentme.com Sat Aug 11 15:40:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJwoe-00022t-0X; Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:40:04 -0400 Received: from [62.118.26.226] (helo=[62.118.26.226]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IJwod-0006ir-Gv; Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:40:03 -0400 Received: from [62.118.26.226] by smtp.secureserver.net; Sat, 11 Aug 2007 19:42:17 -0300 Message-ID: <01c7dc4f$b9b32140$e21a763e@francesco.tue> From: "Alfredo Hartley" To: Subject: PHOTOSHOP CS2 $69.95 You save: $529 Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 19:42:17 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Spam-Score: 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FxyNh7SBe2k6aSkvS2V5d29yZHMoKS9TdWJqZWN0KCkvUHJvZHVjZXIozOkPFx21ivLqbGImdfib gwgrxQEpPj4NZW5kb2JqDXhyZWYNCjAgNg0KMDAwMDAwMDAwMCA2NTUzNSBmDQowMDAwMDAxNTU2 IDAwMDAwIG4NCjAwMDAwMDE3MzYgMDAwMDAgbg0KMDAwMDAwMTg1OSAwMDAwMCBuDQowMDAwMDAx OTE2IDAwMDAwIG4NCjAwMDAwMDU0MTAgMDAwMDAgbg0KdHJhaWxlcg0KPDwvU2l6ZSA2L0VuY3J5 cHQgNyAwIFI+Pg0Kc3RhcnR4cmVmDQoxMTYNCiUlRU9GDQo= --------------010307040500010408040406-- From wvav@digilife.be Sat Aug 11 20:17:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IK19R-0000k7-Cg for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2007 20:17:49 -0400 Received: from [12.206.240.107] (helo=ykstz) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IK19Q-0005SE-2M for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2007 20:17:49 -0400 Received: from fnt ([107.128.76.29]) by ykstz with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 11 Aug 2007 19:16:56 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c7dc76$1784cfa0$1d4c806b@fnt> From: "Emily" To: 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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sun Aug 12 09:35:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKDbX-00018b-OH for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:35:39 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKDbW-0003NP-DM for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:35:39 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKDSA-0005Wc-6y for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:25:58 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.128.201.249] (helo=asmtp2.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKDRz-0005Vi-0F for CCamp@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:25:52 +0000 Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7CDPWPT026827; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:25:32 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7CDPUQk026792; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:25:32 +0100 Message-ID: <00a501c7dce4$3d1ddd10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Cc: "Ross Callon" , , "Scott Bradner" Subject: Darft liaison #4 - GMPLS Calls Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:24:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Hi, Comments on this draft liaison please. It is in response to https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file450.doc Plan to send it on 18th August, so comments before then. Thanks, Adrian and Deborah == To: ITU-T Q14/15 From: IETF CCAMP In Response Subject: In answer to your questions on GMPLS Calls The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your continued correspondence on GMPLS Calls. Please note that "Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in Support of Calls" has now been published as RFC 4974 available from http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4974.txt. In your liaison 'Reply to IETF CCAMP Liaison "GMPLS Calls" produced at your June plenary in Geneva you raise two points. 1. "Call identifiers. Please note that G.7713.x series has a call identifier format. For G.7713.2, this is described in RFC3474 and has RSVP class num of 230." Thank you for this pointer. We are aware that a number of applications require different call identifier formats (or Long Form Call Identifiers in the language of RFC 4974). For this reason, RFC 4974 is careful to place no restrictions on the form of the call identifier, and we expect that ASON call identifiers can be carried in GMPLS Call messages. 2. "Specifying the destination of a call in ASON is done with a UNI Transport Resource identifier (G.8080 section 10.2). For G.7713.2, this is described in RFC3476 as a Transport Network Address (TNA) and has RSVP class num of 229. We suggest that an equivalent should be included in a future ASON applicability draft." Thank you, again. We are also aware that a number of applications may need to exchange information transparently between call controllers. We agree that the end-point identifier is such a piece of information, and that the address family may be specific to the application that the call is supporting (in this case ASON). We expect that a generic end-point identifier object will be defined for inclusion in the GMPLS Call messages (with sub-types to indicate the address family) when the first application that needs them is documented. Regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel Co-Chairs, IETF CCAMP Working Group From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sun Aug 12 09:48:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKDnv-0001tq-Bs for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:48:27 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKDnu-0003de-41 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:48:27 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKDhs-0007C5-B7 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:42:12 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE,USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.128.201.249] (helo=asmtp2.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKDhg-000796-Rx for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:42:06 +0000 Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7CDfn0R030160; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:41:49 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7CDfkN7030145; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:41:48 +0100 Message-ID: <00b101c7dce6$82a72790$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , Cc: "Ross Callon" , , "Scott Bradner" Subject: Draft liaison #5 - ITU-T Optical Transport Networks Work Plan Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:40:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Hi, In June this year, the ITU-T Study Group 15 sent us a revised copy of their work plan for Optical Transport Network topics. You can see their liaison and the work plan at https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file451.doc. You can cut straight to the work plan at http://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-t/oth/09/01/T09010000010001MSWE.doc. It is interesting to look through this plan to check for any overlap or conflict. Table 7-1-2 is a long list of IETF drafts and RFCs that are related to the work being done by SG15. In addition to periodic emails to notify SG15 of new RFCs, we also comment on the content of this table from time to time. At the moment I can see nothing in the work plan that requires immediate comment, but please check for yourselves if you are interested or concerned. Otherwise, I will send the following simple liaison on 18th August. Thanks, Adrian === To: ITU-T Q3/15 From: IETF CCAMP and PCE working groups In response Subject: Your OTNT Work Plan Thank you for continuing to share your OTNT work plan through your liaison from your June plenary in Geneva. I have made the IETF's CCAMP and PCE working groups aware of the work plan, and at this time we do not have any issues or concerns to raise resulting from the content of the plan. Please note that the publication of new RFCs related to the optical control plane are notified to SG15 through separate liaisons from time to time, and you may wish to update table 7-1-2 accordingly. Please keep us informed as your work plan evolves. Best regards, Adrian Farrel IETF Liaison to the ITU-T SG15 on Optical Control Plane From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sun Aug 12 10:39:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKEbB-0003r7-49 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 10:39:21 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKEbA-0008EY-QA for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 10:39:21 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKEUi-000ByW-NN for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:32:40 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.128.201.249] (helo=asmtp2.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKEUX-000Bxh-UD for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:32:35 +0000 Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7CEWSNX008778 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:32:28 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7CEWRph008764 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:32:27 +0100 Message-ID: <00cb01c7dced$96bf0750$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Non-member submission from [sob@harvard.edu (Scott O. Bradner)] Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:32:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk > Subject: Re: Darft liaison #4 - GMPLS Calls > Cc: CCamp@ops.ietf.org, dward@cisco.com, rcallon@juniper.net > In-Reply-To: <00a501c7dce4$3d1ddd10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> > Message-Id: <20070812141218.A5B2C486BC7@newdev.harvard.edu> > Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 10:12:18 -0400 (EDT) > From: sob@harvard.edu (Scott O. Bradner) > > > looks good but one suggestion >> We expect that a generic end-point >> identifier object will be defined ... > > might be good to say where this work would be done (and point to > any IDs if there are any) and give some indication of the timeframe > when it might be done > > Scott From Ahson.Keur@xcitebrands.com Sun Aug 12 11:04:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKEzR-00040U-4D for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 11:04:25 -0400 Received: from adsl-84-227-211-151.adslplus.ch ([84.227.211.151]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKEzQ-0000EX-Au for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 11:04:24 -0400 Received: from name-1d86c15ce4 ([125.185.20.49] helo=name-1d86c15ce4) by adsl-84-227-211-151.adslplus.ch ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1Kqupi-000SVS-Nw for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:04:55 +0200 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:04:16 +0200 To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org From: "Keur" Subject: Active traders report Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_9359734==_" X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 9a2be21919e71dc6faef12b370c4ecf5 --=====================_9359734==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed --=====================_9359734==_ Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Account.pdf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Account.pdf" JVBERi0xLjUNJeLjz9MNCjQgMCBvYmo8PC9IWzQzNiAxMTldL0xpbmVhcml6ZWQgMS9FIDE1NDEv TCA1NDI3L04gMS9PIDgvVCA1Mjg3Pj4NZW5kb2JqDSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg DQp4cmVmDQo0IDcNCjAwMDAwMDAwMTYgMDAwMDAgbg0KMDAwMDAwMDU1NSAwMDAwMCBuDQowMDAw MDAwNjkwIDAwMDAwIG4NCjAwMDAwMDA0MzYgMDAwMDAgbg0KMDAwMDAwMDc4OCAwMDAwMCBuDQow MDAwMDAwOTY4IDAwMDAwIG4NCjAwMDAwMDEwODkgMDAwMDAgbg0KdHJhaWxlcg0KPDwvU2l6ZSAx 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HelenChouinard@computing-systems.com Sun Aug 12 12:25:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKGG8-0003zB-5S for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 12:25:44 -0400 Received: from [89.137.10.55] (helo=[89.137.10.55]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKGG6-0003BA-HN for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 12:25:43 -0400 Received: from [107.170.160.189] by [89.137.10.55] with HTTP; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:26:17 +0300 Message-ID: <000e01c7dcfd$6d2cd600$370a8959@iulia> From: "Helen Chouinard" To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: Company events-ccamp-archive Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:25:41 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C7DD16.927A0E00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 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(Exim 4.43) id 1IKHCP-0004ox-7Q; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:25:57 -0400 Received: from [88.226.217.31] (helo=dsl88-226-55583.ttnet.net.tr) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKHCO-0004YH-Bq; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:25:56 -0400 Received: from [88.226.217.31] by smtp.secureserver.net; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:25:52 -0200 Message-ID: <01c7dd05$d548ee10$1fd9e258@dbray> From: "Lindsey Gifford" To: Subject: You can expect an increase ranging from 1 to 4 inches in length after a 4 month supply Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:25:52 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7DD1E.FA962610" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7DD1E.FA962610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FACT: In a recent survey by Durex Condoms, 67% of all women admitted that t= hey are unhappy with their partner's penis size. This proves that size real= ly does matter. There are stories and myths of penis size from around the w= orld. One of the common stories is that men from different cultures or race= s have penis length differences. This is entirely inaccurate. The most comm= on differences are in length and girth but remember, there are differences = in all people in regards to height, weight and appearance.http://meincilp.c= omWe offer a FULL MONEY BACK GUARANTEE if you are not completely satisfied = with the results of MegaDik, you have nothing to lose, just a lot to gain! ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7DD1E.FA962610 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FACT: In a recent survey by Durex Condoms,= 67% of all women admitted that they are unhappy with their partner's penis= size. This proves that size really does matter. There are stories and myth= s of penis size from around the world. One of the common stories is that me= n from different cultures or races have penis length differences. This is e= ntirely inaccurate. The most common differences are in length and girth but= remember, there are differences in all people in regards to height, weight= and appearance.
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7DD1E.FA962610-- From hardgrove@christian-bartnik.de Sun Aug 12 18:02:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKLWI-0007Jz-0U for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:02:46 -0400 Received: from [41.248.6.113] (helo=[41.248.6.113]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKLW6-0008E0-F1 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:02:45 -0400 Received: from [192.110.168.131] (port=8388 helo=[192.110.168.131]) by adsl196-66-47-217-196.adsl196-10.iam.net.ma with esmtp id 1yshyi-000GVP-46 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2007 22:03:00 -0000 Message-ID: <000601c7dd2c$75c5b820$422fd9c4@mrabha> From: "Vasilios hardgrove" To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: Cash-flow Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 22:02:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C7DD2C.75C5B820" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7f3fa64b9851a63d7f3174ef64114da7 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C7DD2C.75C5B820 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_01C7DD2C.75C5B820" ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C7DD2C.75C5B820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C7DD2C.75C5B820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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[213.82.241.13] with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Aug 2007 07:33:28 +0200 Message-ID: <000a01c7dd6b$6932e210$0df152d5@irccsyokqikkzd> From: "Harald culter" To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 07:32:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DD7C.2CBBB210" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 36b1f8810cb91289d885dc8ab4fc8172 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DD7C.2CBBB210 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C7DD7C.2CBBB210" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C7DD7C.2CBBB210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C7DD7C.2CBBB210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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MDAwMDE5MTUgMDAwMDAgbg0KMDAwMDAwNTQwOSAwMDAwMCBuDQp0cmFpbGVyDQo8PC9TaXplIDYv RW5jcnlwdCA3IDAgUj4+DQpzdGFydHhyZWYNCjExNg0KJSVFT0YNCg== ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DD7C.2CBBB210-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Aug 13 05:43:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKWSm-0005vC-J7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 05:43:52 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKWSm-0007dy-7h for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 05:43:52 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKWHk-000DWM-14 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:32:28 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [193.180.251.60] (helo=mailgw3.ericsson.se) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKWHZ-000DVM-3S for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:32:22 +0000 Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id F2A96206F8 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:32:13 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-b0e80bb0000007e1-11-46c0251da128 Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.121]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id D274E20676 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:32:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.78]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:32:13 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7DD8C.D49AE813" Subject: New Version of Posting of draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:32:40 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6849C8BFC@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: New Version of Posting of draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs Thread-Index: AcfdjOS/y/ToRcOrR16o491APvMFxQ== From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2007 09:32:13.0371 (UTC) FILETIME=[D480A8B0:01C7DD8C] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8fbbaa16f9fd29df280814cb95ae2290 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DD8C.D49AE813 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, A new version of the draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs has been published. =20 The new version has new co-author (Dave McDysan from Verizon) and some new text. =20 Comments are welcome. =20 BR =20 Diego ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DD8C.D49AE813 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

        A new = version of the draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs has been published.

 

The new version has new co-author (Dave McDysan from Verizon) and some new text.

 

Comments are welcome.

 

BR

 

Diego

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DD8C.D49AE813-- From xbswqveb@boueurs.com Mon Aug 13 10:37:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKb32-0001aa-VD; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:37:36 -0400 Received: from pd9e64fcb.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.230.79.203]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKb31-0006uQ-79; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:37:36 -0400 Received: from [217.230.79.203] by mail.boueurs.com; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:42:58 -0100 Message-ID: <01c7ddb8$3e11e6b0$cb4fe6d9@xbswqveb> From: "Frankie Pierre" To: Subject: Re:MONITOR Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:42:58 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2173.0 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Have you ever hoped to have a costly Watch? We have the soulition for you! We sell all the expinsive brands for a low precentage of the price. www.sokeiwuu.com From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Aug 13 11:14:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKbcJ-0001kj-9P for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:14:03 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKbcI-0000Oo-Px for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:14:03 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKbTT-0005Jw-Am for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:04:55 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.128.201.248] (helo=asmtp1.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKbTI-0005Ip-6H for CCamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:04:49 +0000 Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7DF4NVT002179; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:04:24 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7DF4GMC002066; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:04:22 +0100 Message-ID: <026c01c7ddbb$353f4430$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Cc: "Ross Callon" , , "Scott Bradner" References: <00a501c7dce4$3d1ddd10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Subject: Updated Draft liaison #4 - GMPLS Calls Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:04:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Thanks for comments on and off the list. Here is an update. It is in response to https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file450.doc Plan to send it on 18th August, so comments before then. Thanks, Adrian and Deborah == To: ITU-T Q14/15 From: IETF CCAMP In Response Subject: In answer to your questions on GMPLS Calls The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your continued correspondence on GMPLS Calls. Please note that "Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in Support of Calls" has now been published as RFC 4974 available from http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4974.txt. In your liaison 'Reply to IETF CCAMP Liaison "GMPLS Calls"' produced at your June plenary in Geneva you raise two points. 1. "Call identifiers. Please note that G.7713.x series has a call identifier format. For G.7713.2, this is described in RFC3474 and has RSVP class num of 230." Thank you for this pointer. We are aware that a number of applications require different call identifier formats (or Long Form Call Identifiers in the language of RFC 4974). For this reason, RFC 4974 is careful to place no restrictions on the form of the call identifier, and we expect that ASON call identifiers can be carried in GMPLS Call messages. 2. "Specifying the destination of a call in ASON is done with a UNI Transport Resource identifier (G.8080 section 10.2). For G.7713.2, this is described in RFC3476 as a Transport Network Address (TNA) and has RSVP class num of 229. We suggest that an equivalent should be included in a future ASON applicability draft." Thank you, again. RFC 4974 (and, indeed, the whole of the GMPLS architecture) is predicated on the use of IP addresses, so that we expect Call Controllers and connection end-points to be IP-addressable. However, we understand that Call Controllers and their associated applications may wish to exchange transparent information (such as TNAs) that is used in the context of those applications, for example to derive IP addressing information and to identify resources or applications. In view of this, we expect that a generic end-point identifier object will be defined for inclusion in the GMPLS Call messages (with sub-types to indicate the address family) when the first application that needs them is documented. At the moment, it looks as though the first such application will be ASON, and we expect work to resume on the ASON applicability draft in the latter part of this year. 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use effect steps grave. suddenly however independence benefit similar grave. ----sa17afwsyzcgnhj7b3z5r5t2xo31-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Aug 13 11:40:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKc1i-0004ON-Tk for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:40:18 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKc1i-0001XQ-It for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:40:18 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKbw8-0009Mo-Hd for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:34:32 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.128.201.249] (helo=asmtp2.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKbvx-0009LL-9Y for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:34:27 +0000 Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7DFYIcc029787 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:34:19 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7DFYDAV029659 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:34:18 +0100 Message-ID: <02aa01c7ddbf$63bcad30$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:33:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Hi, In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Please give your opinions: 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt This is a partner draft to draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several questions of detail were raised. Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change the mechanism. 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co-authors, so we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice your opinions loud and clear. Thanks, Adrian From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Aug 13 15:23:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKfVH-0006IE-Mk for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:23:03 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKfVF-000215-VP for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:23:03 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKfNl-000Cn9-U2 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:15:17 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-201.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [156.154.16.138] (helo=ns1.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKfNZ-000Ck4-RV for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:15:12 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14729327BE; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IKfNV-0004e0-VW; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:15:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt Message-Id: Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:15:01 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Requirements for GMPLS-based multi-region and multi-layer networks (MRN/MLN) Author(s) : K. Shiomoto, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2007-8-13 Most of the initial efforts to utilize Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) have been related to environments hosting devices with a single switching capability. The complexity raised by the control of such data planes is similar to that seen in classical IP/MPLS networks. By extending MPLS to support multiple switching technologies, GMPLS provides a comprehensive framework for the control of a multi-layered network of either a single switching technology or multiple switching technologies. In GMPLS, a switching technology domain defines a region, and a network of multiple switching types is referred to in this document as a Multi-Region Network (MRN). When referring in general to a layered network, which may consist of either a single or multiple regions, this document uses the term, Multi-Layer Network (MLN). This document defines a framework for GMPLS based multi- region/multi-layer networks and lists a set of functional requirements. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-13140615.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-13140615.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From nobody@host.1nmc.com Mon Aug 13 19:41:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKjX9-0006aN-00 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:41:15 -0400 Received: from mail.1nmc.com ([66.147.239.205] helo=host.1nmc.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKjX8-00034A-Mw for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:41:14 -0400 Received: from nobody by host.1nmc.com with local (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from ) id 1IKjX1-00039K-AB for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:41:07 -0600 To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: You have received a card from a family member! 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Best Regards Wataru At 00:33 07/08/14, Adrian Farrel wrote: >Hi, > >In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Please give your opinions: > >1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt >This is a partner draft to draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt >The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several questions of detail were raised. >Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change the mechanism. > >2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt >This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co-authors, so we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. 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----5z00ywr8clkl7jojfsivee72f5yf82-- From IvorHarwell@GMCLAW.COM Tue Aug 14 03:09:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKqXC-00075T-GC for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:09:46 -0400 Received: from [58.175.17.175] (helo=[58.175.17.175]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKqXA-0008Ef-SC for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:09:46 -0400 Received: from user2004-yf0ays ([184.133.168.55]:16929 "EHLO user2004-yf0ays" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by [58.175.17.175] with ESMTP id S22WNTDKLZIYXNDL (ORCPT ); Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:10:22 +1000 Message-ID: <000401c7de42$1a3b4c10$af11af3a@user2004yf0ays> From: "Ivor Harwell" To: Subject: You've got two choices. Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:09:49 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DE95.EBE75C10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: a7d2e37451f7f22841e3b6f40c67db0f ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DE95.EBE75C10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H.u,g+e N'e.w_s To Imp+act C,Y_T+V Ch,ina YouT'V C+o r p+. Symbol+: C_Y'T,V We h,a.v e alrea'dy s'e-e.n C,YTV's mark,et impa.ct b+efore cl i,mbing to o v_e-r $2..00 w-i't.h n'e,w_s-. Pres.s Rele_ase: C,hina YouTV 's CnBo.o W.e.b S_i*t'e Ran_ks N*o+. 1 on Mic +rosoft L.i_v+e Searc'h Eng,ine CnB*oo Tra.ffic Inc+reas es 4,9_% O.v-e'r T'w*o M,onths R*e*a,d t.h_e news., thi+nk abou_t t.h e i-mpact, and j,u+m*p on t*h-i's firs+t th'ing To+,morrow mornin'+g! $0..42 is a g,i+f t at t'h+i.s price....,.. Do y+o*u_r home,wo_rk a*n,d wat ch t'h+i's trad+e Mon_day m*orning. It w*i_l+l moun*t e*a-c h N*T+F*S dr.ive it find-s w_i,t+h a uni que D,O+S driv,e lette,r. W+h*e*n I m,e+t h*i*m t'h.e n.e+x t d-a y h-i*s f_a,c.e a*n,d h-ands w-e r.e a,l.l sc r atched up. T ired of be.ing a_fraid of w'h,o migh t be ar,ound t-h e n,e+x*t corn_er. Skin 's of bu,tton, t,rabla. Viel+le.icht w+i+r_d m a_n wir+kli ch du-rch Sc'haden k,l'u.g*. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DE95.EBE75C10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H.u,g+e N'e.w_s To Imp+act C,Y_T+V =
Ch,ina YouT'V C+o r p+.
Symbol+: C_Y'T,V
We h,a.v e alrea'dy s'e-e.n C,YTV's mark,et = impa.ct=20 b+efore cl i,mbing to o v_e-r $2..00 w-i't.h n'e,w_s-.
Pres.s Rele_ase:
C,hina YouTV 's CnBo.o W.e.b S_i*t'e Ran_ks = N*o+. 1 on=20 Mic +rosoft L.i_v+e Searc'h Eng,ine
CnB*oo Tra.ffic Inc+reas es 4,9_% O.v-e'r = T'w*o M,onths
R*e*a,d t.h_e news., thi+nk abou_t t.h e = i-mpact, and
j,u+m*p on t*h-i's firs+t th'ing To+,morrow = mornin'+g! $ 0..42 is a g,i+f t at t'h+i.s price....,..
Do y+o*u_r home,wo_rk a*n,d wat ch t'h+i's = trad+e=20 Mon_day m*orning.
It w*i_l+l moun*t e*a-c h N*T+F*S dr.ive it = find-s=20 w_i,t+h a uni que D,O+S driv,e lette,r.
W+h*e*n I m,e+t h*i*m t'h.e n.e+x t d-a y = h-i*s f_a,c.e=20 a*n,d h-ands w-e r.e a,l.l sc r atched up.
T ired of be.ing a_fraid of w'h,o migh t be = ar,ound t-h=20 e n,e+x*t corn_er.
Skin 's of bu,tton, t,rabla.
Viel+le.icht w+i+r_d m a_n wir+kli ch du-rch = Sc'haden=20 k,l'u.g*.
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DE95.EBE75C10-- From Siouta@i5labs.com Tue Aug 14 09:44:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKwh2-0005ev-R0 for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:44:20 -0400 Received: from e181205062.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.181.205.62] helo=e181206089.adsl.alicedsl.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKwgn-0004bo-E2 for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:44:20 -0400 Received: from [176.125.82.18] by e181206089.adsl.alicedsl.de with HTTP; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:15:19 +0200 Message-ID: <000801c7de75$1a6c8d10$59ceb555@Bingo> From: "Mika Siouta" To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: instruction Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:14:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7DE85.DDF55D10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7698d1420ecbbce1995432e99bb6d1a1 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7DE85.DDF55D10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C7DE85.DDF55D10" ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C7DE85.DDF55D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C7DE85.DDF55D10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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4.43) id 1IKwp5-0004ss-GH for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:56:40 -0400 Received: from [117.163.5.140] (port=31642 helo=[117.163.5.140]) by e181206089.adsl.alicedsl.de with esmtp id 1vwvPI-000WTL-70 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:53:53 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01c7de7a$75f6e680$59ceb555@Bingo> From: "Ashwanth Krivoshey" To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:53:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7DE8B.397FB680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7698d1420ecbbce1995432e99bb6d1a1 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7DE8B.397FB680 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01C7DE8B.397FB680" ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C7DE8B.397FB680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" 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10:37:44 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKxII-000LHQ-13 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:22:50 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [171.71.176.71] (helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKxIF-000LH3-CZ for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:22:48 +0000 Received: from sj-dkim-4.cisco.com ([171.71.179.196]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Aug 2007 07:22:48 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.19,259,1183359600"; d="scan'208"; a="392108919:sNHT45101592" Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-4.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l7EEMkFZ014349; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:22:46 -0700 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l7EEMkF4023170; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:22:46 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.21]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:22:46 -0400 Received: from [10.86.104.178] ([10.86.104.178]) by xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:22:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: <02aa01c7ddbf$63bcad30$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> References: <02aa01c7ddbf$63bcad30$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:22:11 -0400 To: "Adrian Farrel" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Aug 2007 14:22:45.0563 (UTC) FILETIME=[954FD0B0:01C7DE7E] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=821; t=1187101367; x=1187965367; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Polling=20for=20two=20new=20working=20group=20I-Ds |Sender:=20; bh=UeZ9jgX0+NxNdp8UzGNtng9Eefm4m/HjfvIWaB8T/5M=; b=rpsb6SCsxv7Hg6EQEFO21ctq7mcC0kOuSWk2JnIxcNLkuOETS8jnetcC0R+8A5lhHRLJka03 2fFmjuVzRm6gTdyKQubfLuqnUUPyXl6dku4hLq2rPycNRsz37lRtFHMU; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Hi, On Aug 13, 2007, at 11:33 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. > Please give your opinions: > > 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt > This is a partner draft to draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te- > extension-00.txt > The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several > questions of detail were raised. > Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not > change the mechanism. > Yes. > 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt > This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co- > authors, so we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. > So please voice your opinions loud and clear. > Yes. Thanks. JP. > Thanks, > Adrian From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Aug 14 11:59:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKyng-0004j8-V3 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:59:20 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IKynf-0006LN-OQ for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:59:20 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKyfV-0005DV-BG for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:50:53 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [206.16.17.211] (helo=usaga01-in.huawei.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IKyfR-0005D5-LM for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:50:51 +0000 Received: from huawei.com (usaga01-in [172.18.4.6]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JMR00IUKTCOU4@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Lee736821 ([10.124.12.125]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JMR00E8KTCK98@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:50:44 -0500 From: Young Lee Subject: RE: Polling for two new working group I-Ds In-reply-to: <02aa01c7ddbf$63bcad30$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> To: 'Adrian Farrel' , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-id: <000c01c7de8a$e022f930$7d0c7c0a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: Acfdv6A6LfPL5ne4TD+Loj/BlmdswAAyzHFQ Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 I support both ID's. Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:33 AM To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Hi, In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Please give your opinions: 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt This is a partner draft to draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several questions of detail were raised. Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change the mechanism. 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co-authors, so we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice your opinions loud and clear. 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follow awhile within calling come sense longer understand. truth forth fly, ----pjcassfgdm9am1e4sy8qbafwe8jcd3eb-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Aug 14 14:59:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL1bd-0000JA-OH for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:59:05 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL1bc-00033k-Dx for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:59:05 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IL1Sz-000OUA-GB for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:50:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.226.64.2] (helo=pro.abac.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IL1Sw-000OTS-Ge for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:50:07 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-42.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by pro.abac.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l7EInxRx059327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:50:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gregb@grotto-networking.com) Message-ID: <46C1F956.4000407@grotto-networking.com> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:49:58 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds References: <02aa01c7ddbf$63bcad30$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <02aa01c7ddbf$63bcad30$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Yes to both. Greg B. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. > Please give your opinions: > > 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt > This is a partner draft to > draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt > The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several > questions of detail were raised. > Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change > the mechanism. > > 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt > This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both > co-authors, so we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. > So please voice your opinions loud and clear. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Aug 14 15:21:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL1x4-0002it-8y for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:21:14 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL1x2-0003yL-SO for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:21:14 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IL1rA-00016J-JW for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:15:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-201.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [156.154.16.158] (helo=ns0.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IL1r4-000156-L3 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:15:07 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DBE4328A2; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:15:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IL1r3-0000P1-H4; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:15:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:15:01 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Requirements for GMPLS-based multi-region and multi-layer networks (MRN/MLN) Author(s) : K. Shiomoto, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2007-8-14 Most of the initial efforts to utilize Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) have been related to environments hosting devices with a single switching capability. The complexity raised by the control of such data planes is similar to that seen in classical IP/MPLS networks. By extending MPLS to support multiple switching technologies, GMPLS provides a comprehensive framework for the control of a multi-layered network of either a single switching technology or multiple switching technologies. In GMPLS, a switching technology domain defines a region, and a network of multiple switching types is referred to in this document as a Multi-Region Network (MRN). When referring in general to a layered network, which may consist of either a single or multiple regions, this document uses the term, Multi-Layer Network (MLN). This document defines a framework for GMPLS based multi-region/multi-layer networks and lists a set of functional requirements. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-14144716.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-14144716.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Aug 14 16:21:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL2t5-0004uV-6w for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:21:11 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL2t4-0000Zo-Ij for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:21:11 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IL2nE-00078H-2T for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:15:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-201.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [156.154.16.158] (helo=ns0.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IL2nB-00077Q-BF for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:15:06 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9B73289D; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IL2n8-00008L-5D; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:15:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:15:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a87a9cdae4ac5d3fbeee75cd0026d632 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Description of the RSVP-TE Graceful Restart Procedures Author(s) : D. Li, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2007-8-14 The Hello message for the Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) has been defined to establish and maintain basic signaling node adjacencies for Label Switching Routers (LSRs) participating in a Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) traffic engineered (TE) network. The Hello message has been extended for use in Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) network for state recovery of control channel or nodal faults. GMPLS protocol definitions for RSVP also allow a restarting node to learn the label that it previously allocated for use on a Label Switching Path (LSP). Further RSVP protocol extensions have been defined to enable a restarting node to recover full control plane state by exchanging RSVP messages with its upstream and downstream neighbors. This document provides an informational clarification of the control plane procedures for a GMPLS network when there are multiple node failures, and describes how full control plane state can be recovered in different scenarios where the order in which the nodes restart is different. This document does not define any new processes or procedures. All protocol mechanisms are already defined in the referenced documents. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-14150558.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-14150558.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Aug 14 17:45:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL4Cd-0007pv-R7 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:45:27 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL4Cd-0002Qd-HL for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:45:27 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IL45Y-000FWB-5C for ccamp-data@psg.com; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:38:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.102.122.149] (helo=rtp-iport-2.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IL45V-000FVp-0Z for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:38:06 +0000 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Aug 2007 17:38:04 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.19,261,1183348800"; d="scan'208"; a="128878443:sNHT49619062" Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l7ELc4Ya015243 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:38:04 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l7ELc4jI023706 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:38:04 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.21]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:38:03 -0400 Received: from [161.44.71.156] ([161.44.71.156]) by xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:38:03 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Subject: Submissions for "Next-Generation Carrier Ethernet Transport Technologies":Special Issue IEEE Comm. Mag. Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:38:03 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Aug 2007 21:38:03.0489 (UTC) FILETIME=[64CF0D10:01C7DEBB] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=556; t=1187127484; x=1187991484; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=tnadeau@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Thomas=20D.=20Nadeau=22=20 |Subject:=20Submissions=20for=20=20=22Next-Generation=20Carrier=20Etherne t=20Transport=20Technologies=22=3ASpecial=20Issue=20IEEE=20Comm.=20Mag. |Sender:=20 |To:=20ccamp@ops.ietf.org; bh=54ycFGI0+gwPkAK9q/vKErvoHWHudi1hP9NL6yq0YTE=; b=ApDrwFbqgTG7e1N6sNYAvsArD6w6RW1rykkE+QGwNLMNVjAL9YWr20FCLBPlVY8Hg/vCjBro g9rrlj6eBsF++1S9kEe+wBrHxxGo/3SFICFJsr/v9TptRZIgCEHAx7q1; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=tnadeau@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Dear Colleagues, This is a note to request those who have submitted articles for the above special issue via the IEEE Manuscript Central, to please **also write** to the Guest Editors, letting us know that you have submitted your article (and, please include the ack. email from the IEEE system, if you could). This will help us consolidate information on all submissions, ensure that no submission is missed, and get all of them reviewed. Again, many thanks for your support of this special issue! Best regards, -Vishal, Tom and Ashwin From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Aug 14 21:10:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL7Ot-00055r-Vi for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:10:20 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL7Or-00013m-Kf for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:10:17 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IL7Eh-0008Ey-Jk for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 00:59:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [61.144.161.53] (helo=szxga01-in.huawei.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IL7Ee-0008ET-SG for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 00:59:46 +0000 Received: from huawei.com (szxga01-in [172.24.2.3]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JMS00BBKIRAPU@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:59:35 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.24]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JMS003S7IRA7V@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:59:34 +0800 (CST) Received: from l37133 ([10.70.77.65]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JMS00MZGIRAVE@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:59:34 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:59:34 +0800 From: Dan Li Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-id: <00aa01c7ded7$8b88ed10$414d460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <02aa01c7ddbf$63bcad30$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Yes to both I-Ds. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 11:33 PM Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds > Hi, > > In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Please > give your opinions: > > 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt > This is a partner draft to draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt > The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several questions of > detail were raised. > Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change the > mechanism. > > 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt > This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co-authors, so > we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice your > opinions loud and clear. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Aug 14 21:16:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL7VK-0004vO-2U for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:16:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IL7VJ-0001C4-PC for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:16:57 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IL7PN-0009JL-Ur for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:10:49 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [192.26.91.6] (helo=mandala.kddilabs.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IL7PL-0009J3-J7 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:10:48 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mandala.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AEFEEC9E4 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:10:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from platinum.inc.kddilabs.jp (unknown [2001:200:601:1300:20a:48ff:fe12:3f1]) by mandala.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3343DEC9E3 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:10:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [172.19.83.190]) by platinum.inc.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3CC657810F for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:10:44 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <46C252AC.9020702@kddilabs.jp> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:11:08 +0900 From: Tomohiro Otani User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: MPLS 2007 International Conference - October 28-31, Washington DC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c You are invited to attend the MPLS 2007 International Conference to be held in Washington, DC from October 28-31, 2007. The 4-day event consists of technical sessions, tutorials, panel discussions, and exhibits. Program details are available at: www.mpls2007.com Important Dates: ------------------------ - Early Registration Rate Cut-off Date: August 20, 2007 - Tutorials: Sunday, October 28 - Technical Sessions: Monday-Wednesday, October 29-31 - Exhibits: Monday, October 29 - Wednesday, October 31 - 8th Public Interoperability Demonstration: November 1, 11:00 am From FortunatoRothermel@pentastrategy.com Wed Aug 15 03:12:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILD3D-0004eF-LR for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:12:19 -0400 Received: from [203.113.28.7] (helo=[203.113.28.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILD3A-0000qy-Rk for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:12:18 -0400 Received: from [195.164.85.152] (port=4552 helo=[195.164.85.152]) by [203.113.28.4] with esmtp id 1BnaWT-000TJP-48 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:12:55 +0700 Message-ID: <693350F3.BCA68F6@pentastrategy.com> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:12:27 +0700 From: Fortunato User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: please confirm-ccamp-archive Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050400060706020501050203" X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bcd240e64c427d3d3617cfc704e7fd7f --------------050400060706020501050203 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------050400060706020501050203 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="paid-ccamp-archive.pdf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="paid-ccamp-archive.pdf" JVBERi0xLjUNJeLjz9MNCjIwIDAgb2JqPDwvSFs0MzYgMTQ2XS9MaW5lYXJpemVkIDEvRSAxNjMx L0wgMTIxNzMvTiA5L08gMjQvVCAxMTcxMT4+DWVuZG9iag0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg DQp4cmVmDQoyMCA3DQowMDAwMDAwMDE2IDAwMDAwIG4NCjAwMDAwMDA1ODIgMDAwMDAgbg0KMDAw 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------=_NextPart_000_225A_01C7DF16.FBE2AE40-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 15 10:02:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILJSB-00022T-EQ for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:02:31 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILJS9-0003hj-KW for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:02:31 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILJGV-000BQA-U7 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:50:27 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.128.201.249] (helo=asmtp2.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILJGR-000BOW-GP for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:50:26 +0000 Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7FDoL0a008624 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:50:21 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7FDoIte008593 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:50:19 +0100 Message-ID: <029c01c7df43$31db7fa0$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: References: <46B274B3.8050304@lab.ntt.co.jp> <02f201c7d5be$6c8ed130$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380DB9492@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> <46B6AA22.8060109@lab.ntt.co.jp> <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380DBA114@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> <46B87C17.7020609@lab.ntt.co.jp> <46BDD2DE.3080305@psg.com> <46BEB833.3030609@lab.ntt.co.jp> Subject: Ready to send MLN liaison? Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:50:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2bcdb6f0ba9636bf286b7e28ccb8bd9b Hi, We now have both I-Ds (reqs and eval) ready to share with the ITU. We also have a draft liaison that has been discussed a bit on the list and in private. I want to make sure that you are all happy with the text before I go ahead. I think I have incorporated the thrust of Igor's comments, but I may not have got the balance quite right. The main point seems to hinge on the interpretation of the word "potential". While I agree with Igor that the virtual TE-link is advertised in the client layer *exactly* like a real TE-link, it is nevertheless not really there - it is only potenially there, and an attempt to use it may fail because the server layer LSPs may fail to be set up. At the same time, the server layer LSPs (trails) that would support the virtual TE-link are only potential, so we can also say that the connectivity in the server layer is potential. I have changed the wording to reflect potential connectivity in both layers. The finer distinction that Igor makes between "potential connectivity" in the client layer and a "potential connection" in the server layer is useful, and I have tried to incorporate it. The changes are in the answers to: - point 5 - Q1-a - Q1-b - Q1-c Cheers, Adrian === From : IETF CCAMP Working Group To : ITU-T Study Group 15 Question 14 For : Action Deadline : 20 September 2007 Subject : Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networking The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your liaison titled "Follow up Liaison Statement to IETF CCAMP on Multi-Layer Networking" generated from your May 2007 interim meeting. This communication provides answers and explanations in response to the comments and questions that your liaison raised. As previously indicated, the CCAMP working group is ready to hold a working group last call on these two Internet-Drafts. However, in view of your comments and interest in this work we are delaying this last call to allow you to consider our responses and to provide further comments during your September interim meeting. Any additional comments that you supply will be treated as working group last call comments and handled accordingly. Working Group last call will complete on 21 September 2007 at 12 noon GMT. Please ensure that any comments are received by the IETF before that time. The latest copies of the drafts concerned can be found at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt and http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.txt draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs "1. General - Does this draft apply only to single service provider or do you envision it applying when there are multiple service providers? The ASON model (G.8080) allows for many different configurations of multilayer networks ranging from a single provider administering all layers and regions to a different provider per layer or region to several providers per layer or region. If two layers are under different administrative domains because they belong to two different providers, the amount of information that can be shared between the two domains is more limited than in the case where a single provider network provides resources at all layers." A customer network may be provided on top of the GMPLS-based multi-region/multi-layer network. It is indeed a strong motivator for the deployment of multi-region/multi-layer networks as described in Section 3.2 of the draft. This draft is, however, scoped to the assumption that the control plane and the data plane are under the responsibility of a single service provider and so constitute a single administrative domain. The MRN/MLN suite of documents makes no assumptions concerning the interfaces with other domains (e.g. UNI, E-NNI). In particular, the specific problem examined within the CCAMP MRN/MLN work is the integration of multiple network layers (that may be from different regions) within the same administrative domain. Requirements for multiple network layers under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. It should be noted that the term region used in the MRN/MLN suite of documents is as per IETF definition (see RFC4206). The statement will be added to Section 1 to articulate that this draft is scoped to the requirements for multi-layer networks under a single control plane and that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. "2. Section 3 - There is an example of several layers of a TDM region. The addition of a VCAT layer example would be more complete. For example, VC-4-7v." Thank you for this suggestion. We have integrated this example into the I-D. "3. Section 3.1 - The last paragraph mentions discontinuity when crossing a region boundary. We would like to point out that the ASON model does not have control plane discontinuity when crossing a region boundary as there are call controllers at each layer. Call controllers at both ends of adaptation into a server (lower) layer communicate with each other." There may be some misunderstanding of the term "discontinuity". In the context of this section of the draft, "discontinuity" indicates that it may not be possible to simply forward the signaling message (i.e. RSVP-TE Path message) from a node in one layer to a node in the next layer (even when stitching or 1:1 multiplexing is used) because there is a necessary change in some of the signaling objects (for example, the representation of bandwidth) at region boundaries. We may solve the discontinuity issue in a method similar to that of ASON by using triggered signaling or any of the other mechanisms described in this document. To help clear up the misunderstanding, the last paragraph of Section 3.1 will be rephrased. "4. Section 5.3 - Scalability problems can be minimized by the use of TED per region in case they are under separate administration or for scalability reason." It is correct to note that the use of a separate TED per region can improve the scalability. However, part of the objective of the MRN/MLN work is to allow full visibility from each network node into all participating layers/regions. Splitting the TED will not reduce the amount of information stored or flooded within the network. Indeed, as multiple switching capabilities can be advertised in a single TE-link advertisement, the total number of entries in a TED should not differ much from a single layer network (although each entry may be a little larger). Furthermore, the number of TE-link advertisements should not differ much from a single layer network (although each advertisement may be slightly larger), thus not putting additional strain on the routing protocol flooding process. No scalability problems have been identified. Section 5.3 will be further clarified. "5. Section 5.8.2 - Virtual TE-links - We can think of two different models and are not sure which one is implied in this document. The first one is that a virtual TE-link represents server (lower) layer potential connectivity. The second one is that a virtual TE-link represents client (upper) layer potential connectivity. The first one requires knowledge of the adaptation capabilities by the client (upper) layer. The second does not require any knowledge of the adaptation capabilities or even the existence of the server (lower) layer and should also be a valid configuration. The second option may be required, for example, when the different layers are administered by different entities." The virtual TE-link represents potential client layer connectivity that may be achieved through potential server layer connections. The client layer connectivity is potential because the TE-link does not actually exist (event though it is treated in the client layer exactly as though it does exist). The server layer connections are potential because the LSPs necessary to support the TE-link have not been set up. It may be helpful to recap some terminology. A TE-link is (as discussed in the GMPLS/ASON lexicography set out in RFC 4397) a logical routing element that allows path selection to be decoupled from resource assignment. Thus a TE-link is associated with one or more data links. This is equivalent to an SNPP link. A TE-link in one layer may, of course, be achieved by one or more LSPs in a lower layer. That is, an LSP in one layer may form a data link in an upper layer. A virtual TE-link (again referencing RFC 4397) is a TE-link associated with zero data links. It is the potential for a TE- link, that may be used in path computation on the assumption that, if it is used, an attempt will be made dynamically to create the necessary data link(s). That is, to signal an LSP in a lower layer, to designate the LSP as a data link in the upper layer, and to assign the data link to the TE-link. Thus, the virtual TE-link is dynamically converted into an actual TE-link. Advertisement of the virtual TE-link is dependent (just as with a real TE-link) on the adaptation capabilities at the end points. As far as client layer network is concerned, there is no difference between virtual and real TE-links. In both cases the TE-link is connectivity in the client layer, but (clearly) with a virtual TE-link, although the connectivity is advertised as if it is real, it is only potential. The principal difference between a real TE-link and a virtual TE-link is that the server layer network resources are not tied up when the virtual TE-link is not in use, and that the signaling process of the client layer LSP might fail if the virtual TE-link cannot be realized (i.e., if the server layer LSPs cannot be set up). "6. Section 4.2 - The last paragraph mentions that TE-link advertisements may need to provide information about the node's internal adaptation capabilities in order to perform layer border node functions. It might be worth clarifying the instances where this is required versus not required. For example, if virtual TE-links are used to represent the client (upper) layer connectivity, it is not necessary to advertise internal adaptation capabilities." There is no difference with respect to real or virtual TE- links in this regard, and all TE-links (virtual or otherwise) must be considered with regard to their switching types and the adaptation capabilities of their end points. The adaptation capability, enables a node to discriminate the remote nodes (and thus allows their selection during a multi- region path computation) with respect to their adaptation capability. i.e., their capability to terminate LSPs at a given region. Please see also RFC4397 for adaptation capability definitions. draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval "1. Section 4.1.1.2 - Setting up virtual TE-links. We would like to understand why the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically. In terms of scalability, could a virtual TE-link (assuming it represents server (lower) layer resources) be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? It is not clear from the draft whether this is allowed or not but we think it is essential in developing a scalable solution. In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, the identifier would have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer." First of all, please note again that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. Advertising the virtual TE-link into the "client" network, which is under different administrative domain, is out of scope of this document. The above question may be separated into three sub-questions as follows; Q1-a) Why do the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically? A1-a) It would be possible to automatically discover all potential connections across the lower layer network and to advertise a full mesh of virtual TE-links. However, we believe that this scenario is unlikely to meet with the requirements of service providers who will want to apply their own operational policies. Such operational policies effectively install a management function (e.g., VNT Manager) between the analysis of the lower layer potential connections, and the advertisement of virtual TE-links. However, nothing precludes from a policy of discovering and advertising such a full mesh. Q1-b) Could a virtual TE-link be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? A1-b) In general, data link identifiers can be autogenerated and "discovered" through information exchange between adjacent nodes. TE-link identifiers can similarly be autogenerated, and exchanged and associated with data links. This, however, presupposes the existence of the data links when the TE-links are created. The virtual TE-link represents potential connectivity (as discussed for point 5, above), but does not have a server layer trail (i.e., a client layer data link) committed. The virtual TE-links must still be advertised so that they can be use in path computation. Virtual TE- link identifiers are assigned at both end points. They are logical identifiers and are not necessarily identical to any identifiers associated with the real physical interfaces. They may be picked from a local pool of identifiers at both end points and exchanged between the the end points. On the other hand, assigning the identifier associated with a real physical interface to the virtual TE-link is not precluded. Clearly configuration (manual or through an automated process such as the Virtual Network Topology Manager) may provide this information in this case. The use of LMP for exchange of information for virtual TE-links is for future study. Q1-c) In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, would the identifier have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer? A1-c) As described in A1-b), the identifier of the virtual TE-link could be associated with a real physical interface. Note, however, that many virtual TE-links could exist where there is the physical capacity for only one server layer tail at any time. It may be convenient to assign each virtual TE-link a different identifier. "2. Section 4.1.1.3 - Traffic disruption minimization during FA release. In case disruption is required in the server (lower) layer, we think there is also an option to signal to the adaptation points and let them re-establish the server (lower) layer as opposed to rely on the head-end LSRs in the client (upper) layer." Section 4.1.1.3 does not specify nor preclude any mechanism to deal with traffic disruption. In the context of the MRN/MLN, upper layer LSPs may be routed over FAs. For reasons outside the scope of these documents, an FA may need to be released or rerouted. This may have a disruptive effect on the LSPs using this FA in the sense that this would induce a route change of these upper layer LSPs. Only the head-end LSR of an (FA-)LSP is responsible for re-routing or releasing FA-LSPs. As such head-end LSRs ("adaptation points" as stated in the question) are responsible for rerouting/releasing FA-LSPs and head-end LSRs of the upper layer LSPs are responsible for rerouting the LSPs they control. The adaptation points can NOT take responsibility for rerouting upper layers LSPs over other (newly established or not) FAs if they are not head-end LSRs of the upper-layer LSPs but only intermediate LSRs for these LSPs The data link created in an upper layer by an FA LSP may be a protected data link (in the meaning of link level protection - see RFC 3471). This link level protection may be achieved by end-to-end protection of the FA LSP, or through any other LSP protection scheme including LSP restoration. This case seems to match what you have described, but note that the process of switching traffic (i.e. the nested LSP) from one FA LSP to another is likely to cause a small traffic hit in all but packet/frame technologies. We would like to thank you for your detailed enquiry into this topic, and hope that you feel that the discussion has been fruitful. Best regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel IETF CCAMP Co-chairs From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 15 12:38:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILLtX-0005re-Kp for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:38:55 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILLtW-0002ND-Dp for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:38:55 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILLoZ-0005Pr-Tl for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:33:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.128.201.249] (helo=asmtp2.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILLoW-0005PP-K5 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:33:46 +0000 Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7FGXgoY008286; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:33:42 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7FGXfCw008270; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:33:42 +0100 Message-ID: <02da01c7df5a$04c07180$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" Cc: References: <195301c7cfcb$7ae97760$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <46A925F9.408@psg.com> <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604C4A069@ftrdmel2> Subject: Re: Proposed CCAMP recharter Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:33:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Hi Julien, > I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't > control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection- > oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by > typical "Ethernet switches". OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say "connection-oriented" > On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) > we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled > layer. Agree. But don't think we need milestones. > I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones (unlike > the > charter which has a more long-term value). I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to approve a re-charter with dates that have been passed. Thanks, Adrian From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 15 12:38:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILLtZ-0005tg-Dr for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:38:57 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILLtY-0002NM-4x for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:38:57 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILLmr-0005Eu-2l for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:32:01 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.128.201.249] (helo=asmtp2.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILLmn-0005EI-QA; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:31:59 +0000 Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7FGVqnJ006890; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:31:52 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7FGVplc006871; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:31:52 +0100 Message-ID: <02d901c7df59$c309a0e0$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , Cc: References: <195301c7cfcb$7ae97760$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <46A925F9.408@psg.com> Subject: Re: Proposed CCAMP recharter Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:27:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 Hi Dimitri, Thanks for comments: > - MRN req + eval. should imho be ready by end Aug. Sure. But by the time we have been through WG last call and done the updates :-( > - concerning the i/w document i'd like to suggest referring to MPLS-TE > (rather than MPLS) since applying only to RSVP-TE Right. As reflected in the actual names of the I-Ds. > - also you refer to a solution for the latter but we just have req. and a > framework since so far -> are u sure solution would be ready by Sep'07 > or alternatively the former doc shall be split and further discussed I'll strike "and solutions" from the milestone. > we need also a milestone for input to the MPLS security doc. but not sure > this has to be recorded Do we need a specific milestone for this? The work is being done in the MPLS WG with consultation to CCAMP. I think this is just a case of CCAMP needing to review proactively and reactively, and needing to generate text according to what we find. > concerning the charter, two specific comments > > - like also mentioned during the second meeting, clarifying the term > Ethernet types would be suggested otherwise entering in an open-ended > discussion about what is allowed/not allowed, desired/not-desired, > possible/not possible, etc. and probably focus on the analytical work here > (something we should have probably done in the GELS context but did not > happen) - side note here it was always felt useful to have operational use > case described as well but that work did also never happen OK, so you'd like the charter to reflect something of the rules of engagement that we set out in GELS? In that case, we will need to add a specific item to the list of scope topics in the charter. - Work on procedures and extensions to GMPLS for the control of Ethernet devices for data planes that are already approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE. Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data planes is out of scope. > - is this milestone also including Ethernet service signaling e.g. MEF ? > in that case i would suggest to make a clear distinction here ? Some work, I think, is within scope and does not need a specific milestone. We don't need to introduce milestones for every I-D. Thanks, Adrian From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 15 18:08:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILR2g-0001vC-RB for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:08:42 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILR2f-0002kn-0i for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:08:42 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILQse-000JQq-6m for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:58:20 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [216.82.250.83] (helo=mail120.messagelabs.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILQsa-000JQU-5A for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:58:18 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: dbrungard@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-9.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1187215092!24779946!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.12.11; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.54] Received: (qmail 26871 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2007 21:58:14 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp7.sbc.com (HELO mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.54) by server-9.tower-120.messagelabs.com with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 15 Aug 2007 21:58:14 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l7FLwBqm022884 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:58:12 -0400 Received: from OCCLUST04EVS1.ugd.att.com (ocst07.ugd.att.com [135.38.164.12]) by mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l7FLw8pj022858 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:58:08 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Ready to send MLN liaison? Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:58:07 -0500 Message-ID: <449B2580D802A443A923DABF3EAB82AF0ED51F96@OCCLUST04EVS1.ugd.att.com> In-Reply-To: <029c01c7df43$31db7fa0$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Ready to send MLN liaison? Thread-Index: AcffQ7TXSUSJhB+DSfuJUTsGTsMu+gAP1IqA References: <46B274B3.8050304@lab.ntt.co.jp> <02f201c7d5be$6c8ed130$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380DB9492@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> <46B6AA22.8060109@lab.ntt.co.jp> <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380DBA114@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> <46B87C17.7020609@lab.ntt.co.jp> <46BDD2DE.3080305@psg.com> <46BEB833.3030609@lab.ntt.co.jp> <029c01c7df43$31db7fa0$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" To: "Adrian Farrel" , Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4ec58ef3f343ebf5ac40a04538f9a6fc Hi Adrian, Considering several items are questions related to multilayer and multidomain, may want to add that the mln-reqs authors have updated the scope to include Section 3.3's discussion and reference to RFC4726. Another reference which may be of interest to Q14 is RFC4655 which discusses PCE multilayer-multidomain. Suggest on item 1 to add: "Note, this document references RFC4726 for interconnection of MRN/MLN TE domains (refer to updated Section 1 and Section 3.3). Another RFC of possible interest on multilayer-multidomain discusion is RFC4655 (PCE)." Deborah =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:50 AM To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Ready to send MLN liaison? Hi, We now have both I-Ds (reqs and eval) ready to share with the ITU. We also have a draft liaison that has been discussed a bit on the list and=20 in private. I want to make sure that you are all happy with the text before I go ahead. I think I have incorporated the thrust of Igor's comments, but I may not have got the balance quite right. The main point seems to hinge on the=20 interpretation of the word "potential". While I agree with Igor that the virtual TE-link is advertised in the client layer *exactly* like a real=20 TE-link, it is nevertheless not really there - it is only potenially there,=20 and an attempt to use it may fail because the server layer LSPs may fail to=20 be set up. At the same time, the server layer LSPs (trails) that would=20 support the virtual TE-link are only potential, so we can also say that the=20 connectivity in the server layer is potential. I have changed the wording to=20 reflect potential connectivity in both layers. The finer distinction that Igor makes between "potential connectivity" in=20 the client layer and a "potential connection" in the server layer is useful,=20 and I have tried to incorporate it. The changes are in the answers to: - point 5 - Q1-a - Q1-b - Q1-c Cheers, Adrian =3D=3D=3D From : IETF CCAMP Working Group To : ITU-T Study Group 15 Question 14 For : Action Deadline : 20 September 2007 Subject : Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networking The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your liaison titled "Follow up Liaison Statement to IETF CCAMP on Multi-Layer Networking" generated from your May 2007 interim meeting. This communication provides answers and explanations in response to the comments and questions that your liaison raised. As previously indicated, the CCAMP working group is ready to hold a working group last call on these two Internet-Drafts. However, in view of your comments and interest in this work we are delaying this last call to allow you to consider our responses and to provide further comments during your September interim meeting. Any additional comments that you supply will be treated as working group last call comments and handled accordingly. Working Group last call will complete on 21 September 2007 at 12 noon GMT. Please ensure that any comments are received by the IETF before that time. The latest copies of the drafts concerned can be found at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.t xt and http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.t xt draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs "1. General - Does this draft apply only to single service provider or do you envision it applying when there are multiple service providers? The ASON model (G.8080) allows for many different configurations of multilayer networks ranging from a single provider administering all layers and regions to a different provider per layer or region to several providers per layer or region. If two layers are under different administrative domains because they belong to two different providers, the amount of information that can be shared between the two domains is more limited than in the case where a single provider network provides resources at all layers." A customer network may be provided on top of the GMPLS-based multi-region/multi-layer network. It is indeed a strong motivator for the deployment of multi-region/multi-layer networks as described in Section 3.2 of the draft. This draft is, however, scoped to the assumption that the control plane and the data plane are under the responsibility of a single service provider and so constitute a single administrative domain. The MRN/MLN suite of documents makes no assumptions concerning the interfaces with other domains (e.g. UNI, E-NNI). In particular, the specific problem examined within the CCAMP MRN/MLN work is the integration of multiple network layers (that may be from different regions) within the same administrative domain. Requirements for multiple network layers under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. It should be noted that the term region used in the MRN/MLN suite of documents is as per IETF definition (see RFC4206). The statement will be added to Section 1 to articulate that this draft is scoped to the requirements for multi-layer networks under a single control plane and that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. "2. Section 3 - There is an example of several layers of a TDM region. The addition of a VCAT layer example would be more complete. For example, VC-4-7v." Thank you for this suggestion. We have integrated this example into the I-D. "3. Section 3.1 - The last paragraph mentions discontinuity when crossing a region boundary. We would like to point out that the ASON model does not have control plane discontinuity when crossing a region boundary as there are call controllers at each layer. Call controllers at both ends of adaptation into a server (lower) layer communicate with each other." There may be some misunderstanding of the term "discontinuity". In the context of this section of the draft, "discontinuity" indicates that it may not be possible to simply forward the signaling message (i.e. RSVP-TE Path message) from a node in one layer to a node in the next layer (even when stitching or 1:1 multiplexing is used) because there is a necessary change in some of the signaling objects (for example, the representation of bandwidth) at region boundaries. We may solve the discontinuity issue in a method similar to that of ASON by using triggered signaling or any of the other mechanisms described in this document. To help clear up the misunderstanding, the last paragraph of Section 3.1 will be rephrased. "4. Section 5.3 - Scalability problems can be minimized by the use of TED per region in case they are under separate administration or for scalability reason." It is correct to note that the use of a separate TED per region can improve the scalability. However, part of the objective of the MRN/MLN work is to allow full visibility from each network node into all participating layers/regions. Splitting the TED will not reduce the amount of information stored or flooded within the network. Indeed, as multiple switching capabilities can be advertised in a single TE-link advertisement, the total number of entries in a TED should not differ much from a single layer network (although each entry may be a little larger). Furthermore, the number of TE-link advertisements should not differ much from a single layer network (although each advertisement may be slightly larger), thus not putting additional strain on the routing protocol flooding process. No scalability problems have been identified. Section 5.3 will be further clarified. "5. Section 5.8.2 - Virtual TE-links - We can think of two different models and are not sure which one is implied in this document. The first one is that a virtual TE-link represents server (lower) layer potential connectivity. The second one is that a virtual TE-link represents client (upper) layer potential connectivity. The first one requires knowledge of the adaptation capabilities by the client (upper) layer. The second does not require any knowledge of the adaptation capabilities or even the existence of the server (lower) layer and should also be a valid configuration. The second option may be required, for example, when the different layers are administered by different entities." The virtual TE-link represents potential client layer connectivity that may be achieved through potential server layer connections. The client layer connectivity is potential because the TE-link does not actually exist (event though it is treated in the client layer exactly as though it does exist). The server layer connections are potential because the LSPs necessary to support the TE-link have not been set up. It may be helpful to recap some terminology. A TE-link is (as discussed in the GMPLS/ASON lexicography set out in RFC 4397) a logical routing element that allows path selection to be decoupled from resource assignment. Thus a TE-link is associated with one or more data links. This is equivalent to an SNPP link. A TE-link in one layer may, of course, be achieved by one or more LSPs in a lower layer. That is, an LSP in one layer may form a data link in an upper layer. A virtual TE-link (again referencing RFC 4397) is a TE-link associated with zero data links. It is the potential for a TE- link, that may be used in path computation on the assumption that, if it is used, an attempt will be made dynamically to create the necessary data link(s). That is, to signal an LSP in a lower layer, to designate the LSP as a data link in the upper layer, and to assign the data link to the TE-link. Thus, the virtual TE-link is dynamically converted into an actual TE-link. Advertisement of the virtual TE-link is dependent (just as with a real TE-link) on the adaptation capabilities at the end points. As far as client layer network is concerned, there is no difference between virtual and real TE-links. In both cases the TE-link is connectivity in the client layer, but (clearly) with a virtual TE-link, although the connectivity is advertised as if it is real, it is only potential. The principal difference between a real TE-link and a virtual TE-link is that the server layer network resources are not tied up when the virtual TE-link is not in use, and that the signaling process of the client layer LSP might fail if the virtual TE-link cannot be realized (i.e., if the server layer LSPs cannot be set up). "6. Section 4.2 - The last paragraph mentions that TE-link advertisements may need to provide information about the node's internal adaptation capabilities in order to perform layer border node functions. It might be worth clarifying the instances where this is required versus not required. For example, if virtual TE-links are used to represent the client (upper) layer connectivity, it is not necessary to advertise internal adaptation capabilities." There is no difference with respect to real or virtual TE- links in this regard, and all TE-links (virtual or otherwise) must be considered with regard to their switching types and the adaptation capabilities of their end points. The adaptation capability, enables a node to discriminate the remote nodes (and thus allows their selection during a multi- region path computation) with respect to their adaptation capability. i.e., their capability to terminate LSPs at a given region. Please see also RFC4397 for adaptation capability definitions. draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval "1. Section 4.1.1.2 - Setting up virtual TE-links. We would like to understand why the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically. In terms of scalability, could a virtual TE-link (assuming it represents server (lower) layer resources) be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? It is not clear from the draft whether this is allowed or not but we think it is essential in developing a scalable solution. In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, the identifier would have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer." First of all, please note again that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. Advertising the virtual TE-link into the "client" network, which is under different administrative domain, is out of scope of this document. The above question may be separated into three sub-questions as follows; Q1-a) Why do the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically? A1-a) It would be possible to automatically discover all potential connections across the lower layer network and to advertise a full mesh of virtual TE-links. However, we believe that this scenario is unlikely to meet with the requirements of service providers who will want to apply their own operational policies. Such operational policies effectively install a management function (e.g., VNT Manager) between the analysis of the lower layer potential connections, and the advertisement of virtual TE-links. However, nothing precludes from a policy of discovering and advertising such a full mesh. Q1-b) Could a virtual TE-link be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? A1-b) In general, data link identifiers can be autogenerated and "discovered" through information exchange between adjacent nodes. TE-link identifiers can similarly be autogenerated, and exchanged and associated with data links. This, however, presupposes the existence of the data links when the TE-links are created. The virtual TE-link represents potential connectivity (as discussed for point 5, above), but does not have a server layer trail (i.e., a client layer data link) committed. The virtual TE-links must still be advertised so that they can be use in path computation. Virtual TE- link identifiers are assigned at both end points. They are logical identifiers and are not necessarily identical to any identifiers associated with the real physical interfaces. They may be picked from a local pool of identifiers at both end points and exchanged between the the end points. On the other hand, assigning the identifier associated with a real physical interface to the virtual TE-link is not precluded. Clearly configuration (manual or through an automated process such as the Virtual Network Topology Manager) may provide this information in this case. The use of LMP for exchange of information for virtual TE-links is for future study. Q1-c) In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, would the identifier have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer? A1-c) As described in A1-b), the identifier of the virtual TE-link could be associated with a real physical interface. Note, however, that many virtual TE-links could exist where there is the physical capacity for only one server layer tail at any time. It may be convenient to assign each virtual TE-link a different identifier. "2. Section 4.1.1.3 - Traffic disruption minimization during FA release. In case disruption is required in the server (lower) layer, we think there is also an option to signal to the adaptation points and let them re-establish the server (lower) layer as opposed to rely on the head-end LSRs in the client (upper) layer." Section 4.1.1.3 does not specify nor preclude any mechanism to deal with traffic disruption. In the context of the MRN/MLN, upper layer LSPs may be routed over FAs. For reasons outside the scope of these documents, an FA may need to be released or rerouted. This may have a disruptive effect on the LSPs using this FA in the sense that this would induce a route change of these upper layer LSPs. Only the head-end LSR of an (FA-)LSP is responsible for re-routing or releasing FA-LSPs. As such head-end LSRs ("adaptation points" as stated in the question) are responsible for rerouting/releasing FA-LSPs and head-end LSRs of the upper layer LSPs are responsible for rerouting the LSPs they control. The adaptation points can NOT take responsibility for rerouting upper layers LSPs over other (newly established or not) FAs if they are not head-end LSRs of the upper-layer LSPs but only intermediate LSRs for these LSPs The data link created in an upper layer by an FA LSP may be a protected data link (in the meaning of link level protection - see RFC 3471). This link level protection may be achieved by end-to-end protection of the FA LSP, or through any other LSP protection scheme including LSP restoration. This case seems to match what you have described, but note that the process of switching traffic (i.e. the nested LSP) from one FA LSP to another is likely to cause a small traffic hit in all but packet/frame technologies. We would like to thank you for your detailed enquiry into this topic, and hope that you feel that the discussion has been fruitful. Best regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel IETF CCAMP Co-chairs From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 15 18:27:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILRLK-0006bE-3X for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:27:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILRLJ-0004Kr-Ls for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:27:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILRG8-000MmF-Hf for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:22:36 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [168.127.0.56] (helo=fncnmp03.fnc.fujitsu.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILRG5-000Mlq-Sr for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:22:35 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.19,268,1183352400"; d="scan'208";a="169142183" Received: from rchemx01.fnc.net.local ([168.127.134.104]) by fncnmp01.fnc.fujitsu.com with ESMTP; 15 Aug 2007 17:22:33 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:22:32 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Thread-Index: Acfdv+WSbB4FRABiRwq9v+vOAO/hcgByk0fg From: "O'Connor, Don" To: "Adrian Farrel" , Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc Adrian I do not believe that draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt = should be a work group document until two clarifications / improvements = are made to the current text, and we have agreement that the = requirements specification will be socialized with ITU and IEEE 802.1 by = way of an appropriate liaison. The two changes to the text that I = request are 1) In Section 1 Introduction, please change the sentence "This document describes requirements for data plane operations and = management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) = networks" to "This document describes requirements for control plane operations and = management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) = networks. It also describes OAM requirements associated with the = interaction between the GMPLS Control Plane and Data Plane OAM." 2) In Section 4 General Requirements, please change the sentence "The general requirements described in this section are based on those = described for point-to-point MPLS in [RFC4377]." to "For MPLS-TE/GMPLS networks, the general requirements described in this = section are based on those described for point-to-point MPLS in = [RFC4377]." Considering that ITU SG 15 has responsibility for SDH / SONET and WDM = data planes and IEEE 802.1 has responsibility for the 802.1ah PBB and = 802.1ay PBB-TE data planes, including data plane OAM - the ID should be = sent to these SDOs with an appropriate liaison.=20 IEEE 802.1 is also doing PBB / PBB-TE MIBs and ITU SG 4 is responsible = for the management of SDH / SONET / WDM networks, so any new management = requirements that this ID identifies, will be relevant to the purview of = these SDOs Regards Don=20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:33 AM To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Hi, In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Please = give your opinions: 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt This is a partner draft to = draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several questions = of=20 detail were raised. Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change = the=20 mechanism. 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co-authors, = so=20 we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice = your=20 opinions loud and clear. Thanks, Adrian=20 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 15 19:25:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILSEu-0004gt-MZ for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:25:24 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILSEu-0006FI-3N for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:25:24 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILS9D-0003WT-7v for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:19:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [64.102.122.149] (helo=rtp-iport-2.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILS9A-0003WD-I1 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:19:29 +0000 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Aug 2007 19:19:28 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.19,268,1183348800"; d="scan'208"; a="128994376:sNHT58087084" Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l7FNJRZ6028141; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:19:27 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l7FNJQmd015478; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:19:27 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.21]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:19:26 -0400 Received: from [10.83.15.52] ([10.83.15.52]) by xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:19:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: "Adrian Farrel" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:19:24 -0400 To: "O'Connor, Don" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Aug 2007 23:19:26.0292 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8DAE140:01C7DF92] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3168; t=1187219967; x=1188083967; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=tnadeau@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Thomas=20D.=20Nadeau=22=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Polling=20for=20two=20new=20working=20group=20I-Ds |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22O'Connor,=20Don=22=20; bh=ScUUv0AEG/Bl2DsQ4sAyMDCIyoEJST9oyyKVUYY4Uzs=; b=EJ6fT8HyM/F0URJEj2EWMYMehgWQY2/U1klDYetVkjJwjOu5VqSnRCnoAbLIt8zceUHrzp1X jtgAwHtOQvHkGY2IhAHEgA1pd/9glPPfn0owC1SOoXy195TwTrHauMyw; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=tnadeau@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b5d20af10c334b36874c0264b10f59f1 Although I agree with you on the change and the point of sending liaison statements, I do not see how this should preclude the document from being accepted as a CCAMP WG draft. Liaison statements, their handling and transmission are issues that are orthogonal to the creation of WG drafts. --Tom > Adrian > > I do not believe that draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam- > requirements-01.txt should be a work group document until two > clarifications / improvements are made to the current text, and we > have agreement that the requirements specification will be > socialized with ITU and IEEE 802.1 by way of an appropriate > liaison. The two changes to the text that I request are > > 1) In Section 1 Introduction, please change the sentence > > "This document describes requirements for data plane operations and > management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching > (GMPLS) networks" > > to > > "This document describes requirements for control plane operations > and management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching > (GMPLS) networks. It also describes OAM requirements associated > with the interaction between the GMPLS Control Plane and Data Plane > OAM." > > > 2) In Section 4 General Requirements, please change the sentence > > "The general requirements described in this section are based on > those described for point-to-point MPLS in [RFC4377]." > > to > > "For MPLS-TE/GMPLS networks, the general requirements described in > this section are based on those described for point-to-point MPLS > in [RFC4377]." > > Considering that ITU SG 15 has responsibility for SDH / SONET and > WDM data planes and IEEE 802.1 has responsibility for the 802.1ah > PBB and 802.1ay PBB-TE data planes, including data plane OAM - the > ID should be sent to these SDOs with an appropriate liaison. > > IEEE 802.1 is also doing PBB / PBB-TE MIBs and ITU SG 4 is > responsible for the management of SDH / SONET / WDM networks, so > any new management requirements that this ID identifies, will be > relevant to the purview of these SDOs > > Regards > > Don > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:33 AM > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds > > > Hi, > > In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. > Please > give your opinions: > > 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt > This is a partner draft to draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te- > extension-00.txt > The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several > questions of > detail were raised. > Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not > change the > mechanism. > > 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt > This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co- > authors, so > we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please > voice your > opinions loud and clear. > > Thanks, > Adrian From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 15 20:21:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILT77-00069J-If for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:21:25 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILT77-0007MD-5b for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:21:25 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILT1c-000Ayw-AZ for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:15:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [47.140.192.56] (helo=zrtps0kp.nortel.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILT1Y-000AyA-UD for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:15:42 +0000 Received: from zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com (zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com [47.140.202.51]) by zrtps0kp.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id l7G0FVP20749; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:15:32 GMT x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:15:30 -0400 Message-ID: <34B3EAA5B3066A42914D28C5ECF5FEA410E51500@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> In-Reply-To: <02da01c7df5a$04c07180$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Proposed CCAMP recharter Thread-Index: AcffW0Bp6onlmrqvQsmaVRh5ECKxWgAIU9OQ References: <195301c7cfcb$7ae97760$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <46A925F9.408@psg.com> <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604C4A069@ftrdmel2> <02da01c7df5a$04c07180$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> From: "Don Fedyk" To: "Adrian Farrel" , "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" Cc: Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Hi Adrian Hi Adrian The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered "connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be considered "connection-oriented". =20 Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is connectionless datagram based.)=20 I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths". =20 Just a suggestion, Don =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Hi Julien, > I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't > control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection- > oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by > typical "Ethernet switches". OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say=20 "connection-oriented" > On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) > we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled > layer. Agree. But don't think we need milestones. > I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones (unlike=20 > the > charter which has a more long-term value). I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to approve a=20 re-charter with dates that have been passed. Thanks, Adrian=20 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 15 22:24:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILV2T-0008UO-JM for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:24:45 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILV2T-0003wO-7A for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:24:45 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILUpH-000OcA-JG for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:11:07 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [129.60.39.103] (helo=tama55.ecl.ntt.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILUpE-000Obs-FE for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:11:05 +0000 Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.114]) by tama55.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l7G2B2iP024363; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:11:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0137820AE28; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:11:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.100]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD47220AE2A; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:11:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from dmailsv1.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp (dmailsv1.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.53.14]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l7G2B10h001768; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:11:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from mailsv04.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp by dmailsv1.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.14.1/dmailsv-1.6) with ESMTP id l7G2B0cd010127; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:11:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost by mailsv04.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.14.1/Lab-1.7) with ESMTP id l7G2Axtq006174; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:11:00 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20070816105531.074c4100@mailsv4.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp> X-Sender: wi002@mailsv4.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J-Jr3 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:13:24 +0900 To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Wataru Imajuku Subject: draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt Cc: Tomohiro Otani Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Hi, Tomohiro Through the consideration about your proposal, I understood the value of your draft especailly if we employed tunable lasers in photonic networks. Key point is the case of LSP creation from NE's with tunable lasers connected to "colorless" fiber, and multiplexing the LSP into WDM fiber. With the information of Lambda Label, the ROADM/OXC nodes can understand the color of LSPs even the LSP transit through "colorless" fibers. Then, the ROADM/OXC nodes properly judge whether specified Lambda space is available or not in next-hop WDM fibers. My suggestion is to simplify your explanation in Figure 1 and Figure 2. I think the value of your draft can be expressed more simple network model. IMHO, do not need the explanation of inter-domain network model to explain the value of your proposal. Best Regards Wataru ------------------------------------- Dr. Wataru Imajuku@NTT Network Innovation Labs TEL: +81-46-859-4315 FAX: +81-46-859-5541 From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 16 03:52:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILa9w-0006Jx-IR for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 03:52:48 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILa9w-0005p2-0I for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 03:52:48 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILZzo-000BKn-Ul for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:42:20 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.1 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILZzl-000BKH-Kw; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:42:19 +0000 Message-ID: <46C3FFB5.1020006@psg.com> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:41:41 +0200 From: dimitri papadimitriou Reply-To: dpapadimitriou@psg.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" CC: "O'Connor, Don" , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 944ecb6e61f753561f559a497458fb4f i would argue along the same line the question for now is about - need for such document - (imho it is the case ack'ing that there are also additional considerations that could be taken into for next releases as topic matures) ps: the main issue is do we have enough good understanding about the control plane operations in the field to write a useful document (to achieve this i hope we will gather such feedback from the list) -d. Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: > > Although I agree with you on the change > and the point of sending liaison statements, > I do not see how this should preclude the document > from being accepted as a CCAMP WG draft. Liaison > statements, their handling and transmission are issues > that are orthogonal to the creation of WG drafts. > > --Tom > >> Adrian >> >> I do not believe that draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt >> should be a work group document until two clarifications / >> improvements are made to the current text, and we have agreement that >> the requirements specification will be socialized with ITU and IEEE >> 802.1 by way of an appropriate liaison. The two changes to the text >> that I request are >> >> 1) In Section 1 Introduction, please change the sentence >> >> "This document describes requirements for data plane operations and >> management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching >> (GMPLS) networks" >> >> to >> >> "This document describes requirements for control plane operations and >> management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching >> (GMPLS) networks. It also describes OAM requirements associated with >> the interaction between the GMPLS Control Plane and Data Plane OAM." >> >> >> 2) In Section 4 General Requirements, please change the sentence >> >> "The general requirements described in this section are based on those >> described for point-to-point MPLS in [RFC4377]." >> >> to >> >> "For MPLS-TE/GMPLS networks, the general requirements described in >> this section are based on those described for point-to-point MPLS in >> [RFC4377]." >> >> Considering that ITU SG 15 has responsibility for SDH / SONET and WDM >> data planes and IEEE 802.1 has responsibility for the 802.1ah PBB and >> 802.1ay PBB-TE data planes, including data plane OAM - the ID should >> be sent to these SDOs with an appropriate liaison. >> >> IEEE 802.1 is also doing PBB / PBB-TE MIBs and ITU SG 4 is responsible >> for the management of SDH / SONET / WDM networks, so any new >> management requirements that this ID identifies, will be relevant to >> the purview of these SDOs >> >> Regards >> >> Don >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On >> Behalf Of Adrian Farrel >> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:33 AM >> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org >> Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds >> >> >> Hi, >> >> In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Please >> give your opinions: >> >> 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt >> This is a partner draft to >> draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt >> The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several >> questions of >> detail were raised. >> Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change the >> mechanism. >> >> 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt >> This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both >> co-authors, so >> we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice >> your >> opinions loud and clear. >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian > > > . > From HanyuHaiges@giasystems.com Thu Aug 16 04:01:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILaIA-0003Oe-Ad for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 04:01:18 -0400 Received: from kedra.zbuk.net ([85.14.109.126]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILaI8-0005iT-TZ for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 04:01:18 -0400 Received: by 10.81.144.88 with SMTP id UrCehLuqxcpxV; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:01:21 +0200 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.38.24 with SMTP id QbvajWpDbTDahW.3065720631649; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:01:19 +0200 (GMT) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:01:16 +0200 To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org From: "Hanyu Haiges" Subject: Two days later we dropped anchor in Medusa Harbour. 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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 16 04:37:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILaqs-0004yn-FX for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 04:37:10 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILaqs-0006nf-0R for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 04:37:10 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILajj-000HX5-Ea for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 08:29:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.1 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILaje-000HWM-OX; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 08:29:44 +0000 Message-ID: <46C40AD3.30404@psg.com> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:29:07 +0200 From: dimitri papadimitriou Reply-To: dpapadimitriou@psg.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Don Fedyk CC: Adrian Farrel , MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed CCAMP recharter References: <195301c7cfcb$7ae97760$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <46A925F9.408@psg.com> <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604C4A069@ftrdmel2> <02da01c7df5a$04c07180$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <34B3EAA5B3066A42914D28C5ECF5FEA410E51500@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> In-Reply-To: <34B3EAA5B3066A42914D28C5ECF5FEA410E51500@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 don & adrian > Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF > also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is > connectionless datagram based.) > > I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route > Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths". i think the concern is to draw a line between VLAN-bridged Ethernet/MSTP and X/Y, where Y is what is under discussion at CCAMP and X is what one tries with this thread to qualify e.g. "source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths" (approved by an SDO responsible for the Ethernet data plane) or something along these lines would prevent that confusion. -d. Don Fedyk wrote: > Hi Adrian > > Hi Adrian > > The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite > the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding > is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered > "connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service > VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be > considered "connection-oriented". > > Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF > also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is > connectionless datagram based.) > > I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route > Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths". > > Just a suggestion, > Don > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Hi Julien, > >> I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't >> control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection- >> oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by >> typical "Ethernet switches". > > OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say > "connection-oriented" > >> On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) >> we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled >> layer. > > Agree. But don't think we need milestones. > >> I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones > (unlike >> the >> charter which has a more long-term value). > > I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to > approve a > re-charter with dates that have been passed. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > > > . > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 16 05:29:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILbfO-0001MK-8m for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 05:29:22 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILbfN-0008EV-79 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 05:29:22 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILbR3-000MwY-LQ for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:14:33 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.128.201.248] (helo=asmtp1.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILbQz-000MtX-Vj for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:14:31 +0000 Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7G9ESNC025292 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:14:28 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7G9EQw1025249 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:14:27 +0100 Message-ID: <037d01c7dfe5$d2552a10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Recharter - Last Chance Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:11:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 17bdfcaea25d1444baef0e24abc38874 Hi, Following from the small comments received on the list, here is the modified charter update proposal. This is your last chance to comment before we send it to the IESG for approval. Adrian and Deborah === First paragraph OLD The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, MPLS, GRE, in cooperation with the MPLS WG. NEW The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, TDM switches, Ethernet switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, and MPLS and GRE in cooperation with the MPLS WG. === New paragraph in the list of Scope bullets. Suggest to place it after: "- Definition of MIB modules and other OAM techniques relevant to the protocols and extensions specified within the WG." and before: "CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks:" - Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support source- controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE. Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data planes is out of scope. === Final paragraph OLD In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T. NEW In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN, and PCE. The WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1. === Milestone revisions (see below for full revised milestone list) OLD Jan 2006 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN NEW Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN --- OLD Mar 2006 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements NEW Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements --- OLD Apr 2006 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions NEW Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions --- OLD Jun 2006 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review NEW Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review --- OLD Oct 2006 Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG review NEW Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG review --- OLD Nov 2006 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review NEW Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review --- OLD Dec 2006 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks I-D for IESG review NEW Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks I-D for IESG review --- OLD Jan 2007 Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions I-D for IESG review NEW Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements I-D for IESG review --- OLD Feb 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for IESG review NEW Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for IESG review --- OLD Mar 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG review NEW Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG review --- OLD Jun 2007 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review NEW Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review --- OLD Aug 2007 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review NEW Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review --- OLD Dec 2007 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for MIB doctor and IESG review NEW Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for MIB doctor and IESG review --- OLD Dec 2007 Recharter or close Working Group NEW Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group --- NEW Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks --- NEW May 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review ==== Goals and Milestones (full revised milestone list) Done Post strawman WG goals and charter Done Identify and document a limited set of candidate solutions for signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control solutions to be considered are the existing GMPLS drafts. Done Build appropriate design teams Done Submit WG document defining path setup portions of common control plane protocol Done Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol Done Submit LMP MIB to IESG Done Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG Done Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG Done Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG Done Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol Done Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling and routing Done Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG Done Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for IESG consideration of more detailed deliverables and determination of usefulness of continuation of WG Done First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF Done First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership Done Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review Done Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF Done First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies Done First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks Done First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN Done First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions Done Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling I-D for IESG review Done Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for IESG review Done First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module Done Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management I-D for IESG review Done First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths Done Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF for IESG review Done Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review Done First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions Done Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review Done Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership for IESG review Done Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability advice I-D for IESG review Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG review Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for IESG review Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG review Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for MIB doctor and IESG review May 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group ==== Thanks, Adrian From Martikainenzmhw@paerchenforum.de Thu Aug 16 07:12:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILdH9-0004QC-Ug for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:12:27 -0400 Received: from [82.77.174.176] (helo=[82.77.174.176]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILdH8-0003Fc-F8 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:12:27 -0400 Received: from DIRECTOR by paerchenforum.de with ASMTP id 82EFA1E7 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:12:58 +0300 Received: from DIRECTOR ([178.179.146.144]) by paerchenforum.de with ESMTP id 3BAABA951FA2 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:12:58 +0300 Message-ID: <000a01c7dff6$563ac730$b0ae4d52@DIRECTOR> From: "Faizi Martikainen" To: Subject: This was still his world, for all of the changes. Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:12:30 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7E00F.7B8985D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: a7d2e37451f7f22841e3b6f40c67db0f ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7E00F.7B8985D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable C-Y T.V Tak+es Inve_s.tors F'o-r Sec'ond Climb.! Ever-y.one Is W+atchin g C*Y.T'V*! CHI-NA Y OUTV C*O R-P (CYT'*V.OB) $0,.46 UP F-R.O.M .'3_2 LASTWEE*K C*Y*T+V c*ontinue*s i_t's st+eady cli,mb f-o'r t+h e secon*d w-eek. Sto-ck rep_or'ting s-ites a'cross t*h_e boa rd a'r_e issui.ng st*ock w.atch not, ices. R,e-a_d t-h,e ne-ws, l.o,o k at t+h+e numbe*r*s, a,n d g+e't on C.Y+T_V as it ke'eps i t_s c+limb g,oing. Busi'ness+NewsNow h'a*s rel-ease d C,Y+T,V as feat*,ured Stock-Wat_ch. 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------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7E00F.7B8985D0-- From Monitawvf@fleet-m.com Thu Aug 16 09:35:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILfVh-0001Qb-Iq for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:35:37 -0400 Received: from p57bb3a37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.187.58.55]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILfUw-0007Pv-SC for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:35:37 -0400 Received: from B2ST2 ([112.195.27.94]:16681 "EHLO B2ST2" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by p57BB3A37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de with ESMTP id S22NIDRKIZFAHAFA (ORCPT ); Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:35:02 +0200 Message-ID: <000901c7e00a$30dcf3f0$373abb57@B2ST2> From: "aubry Monita" To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: info-ccamp-archive Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:34:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7E01A.F465C3F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 441f623df000f14368137198649cb083 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7E01A.F465C3F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C7E01A.F465C3F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C7E01A.F465C3F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C7E01A.F465C3F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [209.191.85.56] (helo=web36805.mail.mud.yahoo.com) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILfRu-00048T-Ta for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:31:44 +0000 Received: (qmail 66801 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Aug 2007 13:31:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=ZrXlI/Dmsx1ORWY0on8r/QBSJeJ8wLb2uK8ycHujlvk1cw9YcR16YO4O1L8NbCMNJUH+LRGmP3s2rpuSyuPz7Q29q55833RZka8QwID8v7pxaVoh8fxsaw/mAauw3L4/BxFXxZFspIs5n5Ousdxi1OXDHdSTxKLbmKhrWGeiCsA=; X-YMail-OSG: A6IYANEVM1mSyMLTkMeY3IYHNUyRqb.SzukYd9OkQCH_EGuNRAR3sP7i7qEGjq_QxzS.WzJTbWVH8j9zVPEi3ogHLHGAmlfCN3yXr3CS7PfR2WvsOq25PkpyTg-- Received: from [67.102.145.11] by web36805.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 06:31:42 PDT Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 06:31:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Igor Bryskin Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter To: Don Fedyk , Adrian Farrel , MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org In-Reply-To: <34B3EAA5B3066A42914D28C5ECF5FEA410E51500@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1129364849-1187271102=:64567" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <192148.64567.qm@web36805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 --0-1129364849-1187271102=:64567 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Don, I disagree with you on this. It all depends on definition of connection. If one agrees on the following major properties of a p2p/p2mp connection: a) single source; b) zero flexibility in forwarding packets along the connection; c) deterministic resource reservation then one can see the difference between, say, Ethernet service (which is an association between source(s) and destination(s)) and Ethernet connection (which is a set of network resources connecting the source to the destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks. Ethernet services, as we know, may be also provided by non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS) networks). PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections rather than Ethernet services. The bottom line: I think it is correct to have the "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP charter. Igor Don Fedyk wrote: Hi Adrian Hi Adrian The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered "connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be considered "connection-oriented". Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is connectionless datagram based.) I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths". Just a suggestion, Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Hi Julien, > I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't > control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection- > oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by > typical "Ethernet switches". OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say "connection-oriented" > On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) > we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled > layer. Agree. But don't think we need milestones. > I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones (unlike > the > charter which has a more long-term value). I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to approve a re-charter with dates that have been passed. Thanks, Adrian --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. --0-1129364849-1187271102=:64567 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Don,

I disagree with you on this.

It all depends on definition of connection. If one agrees on the following major properties of a p2p/p2mp connection:

a) single source;
b) zero flexibility in forwarding packets along the connection;
c) deterministic resource reservation

then one can see the difference between, say, Ethernet service (which is an association between source(s) and destination(s)) and Ethernet connection (which is a set of network resources connecting the source to the destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks. Ethernet services, as we know, may be also provided by non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS) networks).
PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections rather than Ethernet services.

The bottom line: I think it is correct to have the "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP charter.

Igor

Don Fedyk <dwfedyk@nortel.com> wrote:
Hi Adrian

Hi Adrian

The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite
the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding
is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered
"connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service
VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be
considered "connection-oriented".

Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF
also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is
connectionless datagram based.)

I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route
Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths".

Just a suggestion,
Don

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Hi Julien,

> I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't
> control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection-
> oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by
> typical "Ethernet switches".

OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say
"connection-oriented"

> On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again)
> we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled
> layer.

Agree. But don't think we need milestones.

> I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones
(unlike
> the
> charter which has a more long-term value).

I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to
approve a
re-charter with dates that have been passed.

Thanks,
Adrian





Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. --0-1129364849-1187271102=:64567-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 16 10:01:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILfuh-0002UF-Ga for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:01:27 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILfug-0007Tz-0v for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:01:27 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILfhX-0006Q6-1v for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:47:51 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [47.129.242.57] (helo=zcars04f.nortel.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILfhT-0006Pc-Af for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:47:49 +0000 Received: from zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com (zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com [47.140.202.51]) by zcars04f.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id l7GDlaX17255; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:47:36 GMT x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7E00B.FCE0FB86" Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:47:29 -0400 Message-ID: <34B3EAA5B3066A42914D28C5ECF5FEA410E51984@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> In-Reply-To: <192148.64567.qm@web36805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Proposed CCAMP recharter Thread-Index: AcfgCczongC9A28TSDuLWFCsAwZXHQAABmpg References: <34B3EAA5B3066A42914D28C5ECF5FEA410E51500@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> <192148.64567.qm@web36805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "Don Fedyk" To: "Igor Bryskin" , "Adrian Farrel" , "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" Cc: Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f6ef73100908d67495ce675c3fe8f472 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7E00B.FCE0FB86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adrian =20 It's OK you disagree. :-) I myself would have used the term connection oriented a while back. However I have observed that others have a different interpretation and connection oriented Ethernet is confusing to that crowd. I do believe this a difference between service and network as you point out but traditional Ethernet has a tighter coupling between network and service and the distinction is more subtle. Ethernet packets are not forwarded in a hop by hop paradigm, they follow a VLAN or source based tree always.=20 =20 So rather than put confusing text I prefer what Adrian has proposed. =20 =20 Regards, Don=20 ________________________________ From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:i_bryskin@yahoo.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:32 AM To: Fedyk, Don (BL60:1A00); Adrian Farrel; MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter =09 =09 Hi Don, =09 I disagree with you on this.=20 =09 It all depends on definition of connection. If one agrees on the following major properties of a p2p/p2mp connection: =09 a) single source; b) zero flexibility in forwarding packets along the connection; c) deterministic resource reservation=20 =09 then one can see the difference between, say, Ethernet service (which is an association between source(s) and destination(s)) and Ethernet connection (which is a set of network resources connecting the source to the destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks. Ethernet services, as we know, may be also provided by non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS) networks). PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections rather than Ethernet services. =09 The bottom line: I think it is correct to have the "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP charter. =09 Igor =09 Don Fedyk wrote:=20 Hi Adrian =09 Hi Adrian =09 The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered "connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be considered "connection-oriented".=20 =09 Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is connectionless datagram based.)=20 =09 I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths".=20 =09 Just a suggestion, Don=20 =09 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Hi Julien, =09 > I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't > control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection- > oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by > typical "Ethernet switches". =09 OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say=20 "connection-oriented" =09 > On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) > we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled > layer. =09 Agree. But don't think we need milestones. =09 > I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones (unlike=20 > the > charter which has a more long-term value). =09 I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to approve a=20 re-charter with dates that have been passed. =09 Thanks, Adrian=20 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 ________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7E00B.FCE0FB86 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Adrian
 
It's OK you disagree. :-)  I myself would = have used=20 the term connection oriented a while back. However I have observed that = others=20 have a different interpretation and connection oriented Ethernet is = confusing to=20 that crowd. I do believe this a difference between service and network = as you=20 point out but traditional Ethernet has a tighter coupling between = network and=20 service and the distinction is more subtle. Ethernet packets are not = forwarded=20 in a hop by hop paradigm, they follow a VLAN or source based tree = always.=20
 
So rather than put confusing text I prefer what = Adrian has=20 proposed. 
 
Regards,
Don

From: Igor Bryskin=20 [mailto:i_bryskin@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 16, = 2007 9:32=20 AM
To: Fedyk, Don (BL60:1A00); Adrian Farrel; MEURIC Julien=20 RD-CORE-LAN
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: RE: = Proposed=20 CCAMP recharter

Hi Don,

I disagree with you on this.

It all = depends=20 on definition of connection. If one agrees on the following major = properties=20 of a p2p/p2mp connection:

a) single source;
b) zero = flexibility in=20 forwarding packets along the connection;
c) deterministic resource=20 reservation

then one can see the difference between, say, = Ethernet=20 service (which is an association between source(s) and destination(s)) = and=20 Ethernet connection (which is a set of network resources connecting = the source=20 to the destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either=20 connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks. Ethernet = services, as=20 we know, may be also provided by non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS)=20 networks).
PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections rather than = Ethernet services.

The bottom line: I think it is correct to = have the=20 "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP=20 charter.

Igor

Don Fedyk = <dwfedyk@nortel.com>=20 wrote:
Hi=20 Adrian

Hi Adrian

The description of the term=20 "connection-oriented" does not hold quite
the same meaning in the = IEEE as=20 in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding
is that unicast and = multicast=20 services in Ethernet are all considered
"connections" or = "associations"=20 when they are part of the same Service
VLAN or Service Instance. = So many=20 types of Ethernet services can be
considered = "connection-oriented".=20

Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. = (The=20 IETF
also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP=20 is
connectionless datagram based.)

I would suggest we use = something descriptive like "Explicit Route
Controlled Paths", or=20 "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths".

Just a = suggestion,
Don=20

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org = [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Adrian = Farrel
Hi=20 Julien,

> I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term=20 "Ethernet". As we don't
> control IP but MPLS-TE, we're = looking into=20 controlling a "connection-
> oriented Ethernet" which isn't = really=20 Ethernet and not supported by
> typical "Ethernet=20 switches".

OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to = Dimitri, to=20 say
"connection-oriented"

> On the other hand, = (echoing=20 Dimitri again)
> we are also considering Ethernet services = over any=20 GMPLS-controlled
> layer.

Agree. But don't think we = need=20 milestones.

> I also agree it is useless to rearrange all=20 short-term milestones
(unlike
> the
> charter which = has a=20 more long-term value).

I tend to agree, but I suspect that = the IESG=20 will find it hard to
approve a
re-charter with dates that = have been=20 passed.

Thanks,
Adrian =





Pinpoint=20 customers who are looking for what you sell. =
------_=_NextPart_001_01C7E00B.FCE0FB86-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 16 10:31:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILgNM-0005qa-O2 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:31:04 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILgNL-0008FK-6T for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:31:04 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILgDI-000AkQ-9O for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:20:40 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [209.191.85.54] (helo=web36803.mail.mud.yahoo.com) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILgDE-000AhC-Hr for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:20:38 +0000 Received: (qmail 38890 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Aug 2007 14:20:35 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=Fh8C3tUl2A9WuEOtN2dhvyfPSIw73RQ0tHSdZ7EuUXELcEVyMsQtp9aKMvRTrcTmuksGd9B/TZBK+0F18YQrgFhYqccQZd1yxxEhlwydbBYCy92fbG9nly6QoDNu9uOXywlYRTheRQ9bmgFkqc2O0xC9XHSOYKAW5bmjO7EnjxE=; X-YMail-OSG: FxRvPSAVM1l0PqslSp.NCeaIIFhK6oIW.qNWPwtduKbugiZ06t2q9bTFUOgLJpKk7OTP_PGHEYDaxe46n1z07s16wO8rN8WT7g_foFZIumRH_nto8DitEDuhtQ-- Received: from [67.102.145.11] by web36803.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:20:35 PDT Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:20:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Igor Bryskin Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter To: Don Fedyk , Adrian Farrel , MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org In-Reply-To: <34B3EAA5B3066A42914D28C5ECF5FEA410E51984@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1509399795-1187274035=:38874" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <816420.38874.qm@web36803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a1852b4f554b02e7e4548cc7928acc1f --0-1509399795-1187274035=:38874 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Adrian is proposing: - Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane.... IMO this is lacking the fact that while computing the mentioned paths we will consider various TE proprieties of Ethernet links, and while setting up the paths we will perform resource reservation. I mean explicitly routed paths may be computed and established without any TE considerations, and that's not what we are planning to do in CCAMP. So, I would change the text to something like: - Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support Traffic Engineered Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane.... Don Fedyk wrote: Hi Adrian It's OK you disagree. :-) I myself would have used the term connection oriented a while back. However I have observed that others have a different interpretation and connection oriented Ethernet is confusing to that crowd. I do believe this a difference between service and network as you point out but traditional Ethernet has a tighter coupling between network and service and the distinction is more subtle. Ethernet packets are not forwarded in a hop by hop paradigm, they follow a VLAN or source based tree always. So rather than put confusing text I prefer what Adrian has proposed. Regards, Don --------------------------------- From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:i_bryskin@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:32 AM To: Fedyk, Don (BL60:1A00); Adrian Farrel; MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter Hi Don, I disagree with you on this. It all depends on definition of connection. If one agrees on the following major properties of a p2p/p2mp connection: a) single source; b) zero flexibility in forwarding packets along the connection; c) deterministic resource reservation then one can see the difference between, say, Ethernet service (which is an association between source(s) and destination(s)) and Ethernet connection (which is a set of network resources connecting the source to the destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks. Ethernet services, as we know, may be also provided by non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS) networks). PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections rather than Ethernet services. The bottom line: I think it is correct to have the "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP charter. Igor Don Fedyk wrote: Hi Adrian Hi Adrian The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered "connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be considered "connection-oriented". Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is connectionless datagram based.) I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths". Just a suggestion, Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Hi Julien, > I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't > control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection- > oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by > typical "Ethernet switches". OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say "connection-oriented" > On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) > we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled > layer. Agree. But don't think we need milestones. > I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones (unlike > the > charter which has a more long-term value). I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to approve a re-charter with dates that have been passed. Thanks, Adrian --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --0-1509399795-1187274035=:38874 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Adrian is proposing:

- Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with  responsibility for the Ethernet data plane....

IMO this is lacking the fact that while computing the mentioned paths we will consider various TE proprieties of Ethernet links, and while setting up the paths we will perform resource reservation. I mean explicitly routed paths may be computed and established without any TE considerations, and that's not what we are planning to do in CCAMP.

So, I would change the text to something like:

- Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support Traffic Engineered Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with  responsibility for the Ethernet data plane....



Don Fedyk <dwfedyk@nortel.com> wrote:
Hi Adrian
 
It's OK you disagree. :-)  I myself would have used the term connection oriented a while back. However I have observed that others have a different interpretation and connection oriented Ethernet is confusing to that crowd. I do believe this a difference between service and network as you point out but traditional Ethernet has a tighter coupling between network and service and the distinction is more subtle. Ethernet packets are not forwarded in a hop by hop paradigm, they follow a VLAN or source based tree always.
 
So rather than put confusing text I prefer what Adrian has proposed. 
 
Regards,
Don

From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:i_bryskin@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:32 AM
To: Fedyk, Don (BL60:1A00); Adrian Farrel; MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter

Hi Don,

I disagree with you on this.

It all depends on definition of connection. If one agrees on the following major properties of a p2p/p2mp connection:

a) single source;
b) zero flexibility in forwarding packets along the connection;
c) deterministic resource reservation

then one can see the difference between, say, Ethernet service (which is an association between source(s) and destination(s)) and Ethernet connection (which is a set of network resources connecting the source to the destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks. Ethernet services, as we know, may be also provided by non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS) networks).
PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections rather than Ethernet services.

The bottom line: I think it is correct to have the "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP charter.

Igor

Don Fedyk <dwfedyk@nortel.com> wrote:
Hi Adrian

Hi Adrian

The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite
the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding
is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered
"connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service
VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be
considered "connection-oriented".

Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF
also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is
connectionless datagram based.)

I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route
Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths".

Just a suggestion,
Don

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Hi Julien,

> I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't
> control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection-
> oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by
> typical "Ethernet switches".

OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say
"connection-oriented"

> On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again)
> we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled
> layer.

Agree. But don't think we need milestones.

> I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones
(unlike
> the
> charter which has a more long-term value).

I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to
approve a
re-charter with dates that have been passed.

Thanks,
Adrian





Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --0-1509399795-1187274035=:38874-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 16 11:48:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILhaL-0008Us-Al for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:48:33 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILhaK-00037w-D8 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:48:33 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILhSF-000LOO-CD for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:40:11 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.23.212.7] (helo=smail6.alcatel.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILhSB-000LNj-Rt for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:40:09 +0000 Received: from FRVELSBHS05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com [155.132.6.77]) by smail6.alcatel.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/ICT) with ESMTP id l7GFdjbP025173; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:39:45 +0200 Received: from FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com ([155.132.6.56]) by FRVELSBHS05.ad2.ad.alcatel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:40:01 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:39:25 +0200 Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380F951BA@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> In-Reply-To: <816420.38874.qm@web36803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Proposed CCAMP recharter thread-index: AcfgELq4f3k5xLieRMSf4SJfX4or1wABEBeA References: <34B3EAA5B3066A42914D28C5ECF5FEA410E51984@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> <816420.38874.qm@web36803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Igor Bryskin" , "Don Fedyk" , "Adrian Farrel" , "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Aug 2007 15:40:01.0641 (UTC) FILETIME=[B574AD90:01C7E01B] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 155.132.188.84 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8041eca2a724d631b098c15e9048ce9 =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Igor Bryskin > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 4:21 PM > To: Don Fedyk; Adrian Farrel; MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN > Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter >=20 > Adrian is proposing: >=20 > - Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support=20 > source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths=20 > for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO=20 > with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane.... >=20 > IMO this is lacking the fact that while computing the=20 > mentioned paths we will consider various TE proprieties of=20 > Ethernet links, and while setting up the paths we will=20 > perform resource reservation. I mean explicitly routed paths=20 > may be computed and established without any TE=20 > considerations, and that's not what we are planning to do in CCAMP.=20 > > So, I would change the text to something like: >=20 > - Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support Traffic=20 > Engineered Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that=20 > are already approved by an SDO with responsibility for the=20 > Ethernet data plane.... if you do so, you then come back to the initial issue. TE data paths & mechanisms are not CCAMP specific (and may applied to=20 bridged Ethernet) hence you would not characterize the Ethernet mode - see my previous post -=20 so suggest to rephrase as: - Work on traffic-engineering mechanisms and extensions to=20 support source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet =20 data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved=20 by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It=20 is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE.=20 Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data=20 planes is out of scope. =20 -d. > Don Fedyk wrote: >=20 > Hi Adrian > =20 > It's OK you disagree. :-) I myself would have used the=20 > term connection oriented a while back. However I have=20 > observed that others have a different interpretation and=20 > connection oriented Ethernet is confusing to that crowd. I do=20 > believe this a difference between service and network as you=20 > point out but traditional Ethernet has a tighter coupling=20 > between network and service and the distinction is more=20 > subtle. Ethernet packets are not forwarded in a hop by hop=20 > paradigm, they follow a VLAN or source based tree always.=20 > =20 > So rather than put confusing text I prefer what Adrian=20 > has proposed. =20 > =20 > Regards, > Don=20 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:i_bryskin@yahoo.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:32 AM > To: Fedyk, Don (BL60:1A00); Adrian Farrel;=20 > MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN > Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter > =09 > =09 > Hi Don, > =09 > I disagree with you on this.=20 > =09 > It all depends on definition of connection. If=20 > one agrees on the following major properties of a p2p/p2mp connection: > =09 > a) single source; > b) zero flexibility in forwarding packets along=20 > the connection; > c) deterministic resource reservation=20 > =09 > then one can see the difference between, say,=20 > Ethernet service (which is an association between source(s)=20 > and destination(s)) and Ethernet connection (which is a set=20 > of network resources connecting the source to the=20 > destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either=20 > connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks.=20 > Ethernet services, as we know, may be also provided by=20 > non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS) networks). > PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections=20 > rather than Ethernet services. > =09 > The bottom line: I think it is correct to have=20 > the "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP charter. > =09 > Igor > =09 > Don Fedyk wrote:=20 >=20 > Hi Adrian > =09 > Hi Adrian > =09 > The description of the term=20 > "connection-oriented" does not hold quite > the same meaning in the IEEE as in the=20 > IETF. In IEEE, my understanding > is that unicast and multicast services=20 > in Ethernet are all considered > "connections" or "associations" when=20 > they are part of the same Service > VLAN or Service Instance. So many types=20 > of Ethernet services can be > considered "connection-oriented".=20 > =09 > Therefore the term=20 > "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF > also considers TCP "connection=20 > oriented" even though IP is > connectionless datagram based.)=20 > =09 > I would suggest we use something=20 > descriptive like "Explicit Route > Controlled Paths", or "Automating=20 > Configured Ethernet Paths".=20 > =09 > Just a suggestion, > Don=20 > =09 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Hi Julien, > =09 > > I agree with Dimitri about the use of=20 > the term "Ethernet". As we don't > > control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking=20 > into controlling a "connection- > > oriented Ethernet" which isn't really=20 > Ethernet and not supported by > > typical "Ethernet switches". > =09 > OK. I'll modify the text I just=20 > suggested to Dimitri, to say=20 > "connection-oriented" > =09 > > On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) > > we are also considering Ethernet=20 > services over any GMPLS-controlled > > layer. > =09 > Agree. But don't think we need milestones. > =09 > > I also agree it is useless to=20 > rearrange all short-term milestones > (unlike=20 > > the > > charter which has a more long-term value). > =09 > I tend to agree, but I suspect that the=20 > IESG will find it hard to > approve a=20 > re-charter with dates that have been passed. > =09 > Thanks, > Adrian=20 > =09 > =09 > =09 > =09 > =09 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Pinpoint customers=20 > o.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v9.php?o=3DUS2226&cmp=3DYahoo&ctv=3DAprNI& > s=3DY&s2=3DEM&b=3D50> who are looking for what you sell.=20 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers=20 > ileweb/onesearch?refer=3D1ONXIC> , not web links.=20 >=20 From LalitaKluck@vrlknowledgebank.com Thu Aug 16 12:54:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILicd-000094-Sw for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:54:59 -0400 Received: from catv-598558ee.catv.broadband.hu ([89.133.88.238]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILicd-0005Ir-2r for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:54:59 -0400 Received: from lila ([177.134.8.31]) by catv-598558ee.catv.broadband.hu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id A296B4806EBAB0; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:55:30 +0200 Message-ID: <001201c7e026$2967b530$ee588559@lila> From: "Lalita Kluck" To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:54:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7E036.ECEE3B40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f49c97ce49302a02285a2d36a99eef8c ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7E036.ECEE3B40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7E036.ECEE3B40" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7E036.ECEE3B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7E036.ECEE3B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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STOX_REPLY_TYPE,USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.128.201.248] (helo=asmtp1.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ILkUp-000KNi-Td for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:55:05 +0000 Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7GIshjx018064; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:54:43 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7GIseSM018056; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:54:42 +0100 Message-ID: <042601c7e036$e0ed1c80$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Eric Gray \(LO/EUS\)" , "JP Vasseur" , "Arthi Ayyangar" Cc: "Ross Callon" , , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , References: <941D5DCD8C42014FAF70FB7424686DCF01696137@eusrcmw721.eamcs.ericsson.se> Subject: Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-06.txt Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:52:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b66a1e94d7d92973ece9e5da449ff80 Hi Eric, Many thanks. > Summary: > ======= > > This document is not ready for publishing as a Proposed Standard. > Some points require clarifications. > > Comments: > ======== > > The following paragraph (section 2) seems inconsistent with the > text in subsequent sections: it seems that it is saying that any > combination of the three methods (contiguous, nested, stitched) > could be used in a _single_ LSP - yet at least on of these is > defined as "end-to-end" in subsequent text (contiguous). [SNIP] Point taken. What we were trying to convey is that, domain by domain, you may apply any one of the techniques. We can re-work this text to make it clearer and possibly include a (rather trite) example. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Still related to the above, but as a side note, the fact that it > is not immediately clear which of these is the intention in this > document is an indication of a potential for some very serious > interoperability issues. Some of the subsequent text mentions > the potential for a "policy failure" that SHOULD fail the setup. > > In addition to not being absolutely clear (when would it be okay > not to fail, is there a way to indicate that an alternative is > allowed, etc?), this implies that it is possible for a domain to > have a policy (for example, against contiguous LSP setup) that is > going to result in complete non-interoperation with a domain (or > implementation) asking for contiguous LSP setup. > > This sort of policy conflict may easily arise if one implementer, > or operator, interprets the specification one way and another (or > others) interprets it another in terms of expected "end to end" > behavior and combinations of the types of "spanning" LSPs. The ability to fail to interoperate at the domain level is intended to be an operator choice. If, for whatever reason, the operator only wants to allow one of the mechanisms, and the ingress domain insists on another mechanism, then it is important to provide for the rejection of the LSP setup. The most obvious (to me) example, is that an ingress may request a contiguous LSP because it wishes to exert maximal control over the LSP's path and (in particular) to control when re-optimization takes place. OTOH, the operator of a transit domain may decide that only (for example) LSP stitching is allowed for exactly the reason that it gives the operator the chance to reoptimize their own domain under their own control. Now there is a stand-off. The ingress operator has a choice: - find another path - relax his requirements - fail to provide the service. But the point about implementation is more important. The choice is not very functional if the ingress LSR is not able to support all modes. Fortunately, that is easy to implement (it is only a flag). The choice is, however, fully functional if the LSRs at the borders of the transit domain only support one mechanism (since that must be the mechanism that the domain operator is deploying). We can clarify this choice, but I don;t believe any functional change is required. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > The last two paragraphs in section 2 (preceding the heading for > section 2.1) are confusing and (potentially) contradictory: one > appears to say that signaling extensions (for control/selection > of methods) are in scope while specific details are not, but the > other seems to say otherwise. > > I suspect that the word "control" is where I am getting hung-up. > If it is intended that the specifics of each method are out of > scope in this document - once a method is selected - then it is > hard to see how "control [...] of the three signaling mechanisms" > is in scope but "specific protocol extensions required to signal > each LSP type" is not. > > Perhaps "control and" should be removed? I think the issue is with the associativity of "and". We mean: This document describes the RSVP-TE signaling extensions required to control which of the three signaling mechanisms is used and to select which of the three signaling mechanisms is used. I agree that "control and" is superfluous. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > In section 3, under bullet 4a - on page 6 - you use "SHOULD" in > saying whether or not a PathErr message is to be generated. Why > - or under what circumstances - would it be appropriate not to do > so? Hmmm. RFC 3209 includes a variety of reasons to generate a PathErr carrying the "Routing Problem" error. Some of these are related to path computation failure (including next hop selection), and the referenced text relates to path computation failure. We do not feel that we can redefine (or justify!) the behavior described in RFC 3209. In addition, the referenced I-D ([INTER-DOMAIN-PD-PATH-COMP], also describes this behavior - and needs to be fixed to include why this is a "MAY". My opinion is that at a domain boundary we should make the same considerations as in RFC 4208 sections 3.1 and 3.2 (note the error in 3.2 with lower case "should"). The reasoning here, I believe, is that a Path message could be interpretted as a network probe, and a PathErr provides information about the network capabilities and policies. Therefore, it may be an administrative/security policy to not send a PathErr under certain routing failure conditions. We should clarify this six (count them!) ways: - reference to 3209 - reference to [INTER-DOMAIN-PD-PATH-COMP] - explanation of when an application MAY decide to not send PathErr - text in the security section - explanation in [INTER-DOMAIN-PD-PATH-COMP] of when an application MAY decide to not send PathErr - text in the security section of [INTER-DOMAIN-PD-PATH-COMP] > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Similarly, on page 7, you use the word SHOULD with respect to ERO > processing in a Path message. When (or under what circumstances) > would it make sense not to do as specified? What alternatives are > there? > > This same observation then applies to several (all?) of the actual > procedures - although several of them do provide some degree of > amplification as to when (or why) a specific step might not apply. I think that the numbered paragraphs need to be updated as: 1. first SHOULD -> MUST; second SHOULD remains with added explanation 2. SHOULD -> MUST 3. SHOULD remains with added explanation 6. SHOULD remains with added explanation The changes of SHOULD to MUST need consultation with my co-authors and with the WG. > Perhaps it would be best to clarify in the steps themselves and - > rather than say "SHOULD" in the introductory statement, it might > be enough to simply say that the following procedures apply (thus > avoiding the issue of using either SHOULD or MUST). I agree. The meta-paragraph (before the numbered points) doesn't make sense since "SHOULD do a MUST" is meaningless. We should drop the 2109 language from that text. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > After "However:" in section 3.2, I would suggest some form of > modification or qualification of the first bullet similar to: > > - A domain border node MUST NOT passively suppress propagation > of a PathErr message. > > Clearly, if the device applies a successful crankback approach, > it does not make sense for it to propagate the PathErr anyway. OK. This was obviously not sufficiently clear. It was meant to imply that the PathErr must - either be propagated - or dropped because some other action has been applied In other words, a PathErr must not simply be dropped according to policy, whim, or misadventure. (Actually, misadventure can occur because of the nature of IP :-) We can try to expan the text to make "passively suppress" less opaque. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > In the third bullet of section 7, page 15, "do not need to be > considered" does not follow from "are likely to be upgraded". > > True - if they are upgraded - then they are unlikely to need > to be considered in backward compatibility discussion. But > "likely to be" is NOT the same as "are". > > The point I think you are trying to make is that upgrading a > border LSR to include this capability is an essential enabling > requirement for useful operation of this capability - and that > makes it unnecessary to consider such upgraded border LSRs in > backward compatibility. Yes, that is exactly the point. Of course, it is possible that someone will try to exercise the function without upgrading the domain border LSRs, but then it wouldn't work, and is not expected to work. We will try to polish the text. ====================================================================== > NITs: [SNIP] > In section 3.1, as currently formatted, the "factors including:" > seems to be "Farrel, Ayyangar and Vasseur" - an artifact of the > way that your document only has a single empty text-line between > the last line of content-text and the page footer. This is only > a problem when reading the electronic version and - most likely - > a (humorous) temporary problem that will fall out in subsequent > versions. If not, it might be a good idea to force the line with > a colon ending it to not orphan the next line of content-text. > > In the version I read, this occurs at the bottom of page 6. How do you know this is not how we intended it to be read? [SNIP] Very many thanks. Adrian From gtuanalysis@toshoklabs.com Thu Aug 16 15:07:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILkhE-0003ts-H4; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:07:52 -0400 Received: from acnn60.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.10.167.60]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ILkgH-0000xM-PJ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:07:52 -0400 Received: from karina ([91.226.200.102]:38853 "HELO karina" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 3ca70a53toshoklabs.com with ESMTP id 1612BF92725C24 (ORCPT ); Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:07:00 +0200 Message-ID: <001001c7e049$63820bd0$06bf7fb4@karina> From: determined To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: in data Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:07:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7E049.63820BD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2962 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ff0adf256e4dd459cc25215cfa732ac1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7E049.63820BD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7E049.63820BD0" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7E049.63820BD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable my false friend, but one or two of Mr. Campbells when he was in town either hand of a canal; the servant lassies were out slestering and Germany= This, with the present half-gale of wind, the captain if no fall. She h= eld to me a moment very tight, breathing quick and deep; I wish you were so= , indeed, I cried. I would be a fine man if I had happiness that was in my heart was like a fire in a great chimney. such hur= ry to return as you might fancy; rather prolonged my absence but might as w= ell have cried upon the castle rock. She had passed her presenting of the = young man to Catriona. The poor, pretty child was observe them, and as a more human aid to the same end purchased a recalled = the image of that figure awaiting me between four walls, my adorned with fi= nery and stopping seamen by their very sleeves; the and before there was mo= re speech, a little wind having sprung up in the beastly Hollands custom, stopped his boat and required of us our fares. Wel= l, well, well, said I, you will have to learn more sense. soon as he had fo= und a cover to our heads, he left us alone, which was same window whence we= had once looked down on Catriona, and all cried her. But there was one misfortune: thinking to help, she was rather The r= est of the day I walked up and down raging. There were few names trust Cat= riona in the hands of any other Christian being; the answer to seemed a goo= d few days must pass before her mails could come to hand in It will be time enough when I get you to your father, said I, little worst = days of all, when the red-coat soldiers were out, and my father She looked = at me with open eyes. By the light of the new day she was Accordingly, I g= ot my courage up and my words ready, and the last I was a little abashed when she came forth in her one habit, and the her ex= cuse, she said, that she was not much used with walking shod. I deadly exp= edient: that of imitating the tones of my voice when I And what for no? sa= id she, if you would let me. There was a pretty country simplicity in this that made some laugh, word of= kissing her in Barbaras letter; now that she depended on me, save Mrs. Geb= bie, some of us in cloaks, others mantled in the ships your house for a dir= ection. An error it seems to have been, but I pleasure. On deck, I made her a soft place with my cloak; and the breeze. = It was besides my first knowledge of these daft-like We got a drink of mil= k from a country wife but new come to the town, ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7E049.63820BD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
my false friend, but one or two= of Mr. Campbells when he was in town
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either hand of a canal; the ser= vant lassies were out slestering and Germany. This, with the present half-= gale of wind, the captain if no fall. She held to me a moment very tight, = breathing quick and deep; I wish you were so, indeed, I cried. I would be = a fine man if I had
happiness that was in my heart = was like a fire in a great chimney. such hurry to return as you might fancy= ; rather prolonged my absence but might as well have cried upon the castle = rock. She had passed her presenting of the young man to Catriona. The poo= r, pretty child was
observe them, and as a more hum= an aid to the same end purchased a recalled the image of that figure awaiti= ng me between four walls, my adorned with finery and stopping seamen by the= ir very sleeves; the and before there was more speech, a little wind having= sprung up in the
beastly Hollands custom, stoppe= d his boat and required of us our fares. Well, well, well, said I, you will= have to learn more sense. soon as he had found a cover to our heads, he le= ft us alone, which was same window whence we had once looked down on Catrio= na, and all cried
her. But there was one misfort= une: thinking to help, she was rather The rest of the day I walked up and = down raging. There were few names trust Catriona in the hands of any other= Christian being; the answer to seemed a good few days must pass before her= mails could come to hand in
It will be time enough when I g= et you to your father, said I, little worst days of all, when the red-coat = soldiers were out, and my father She looked at me with open eyes. By the l= ight of the new day she was Accordingly, I got my courage up and my words r= eady, and the last
I was a little abashed when she= came forth in her one habit, and the her excuse, she said, that she was no= t much used with walking shod. I deadly expedient: that of imitating the = tones of my voice when I And what for no? said she, if you would let me.
There was a pretty country simp= licity in this that made some laugh, word of kissing her in Barbaras letter= ; now that she depended on me, save Mrs. Gebbie, some of us in cloaks, othe= rs mantled in the ships your house for a direction. An error it seems to h= ave been, but I
pleasure. On deck, I made her = a soft place with my cloak; and the breeze. It was besides my first knowle= dge of these daft-like We got a drink of milk from a country wife but new c= ome to the town,
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Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:41:41 +0600 Message-ID: <001101c7e0bb$329bdc90$001a9944@Yulia> From: Dwayne Moody To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: No to managerial Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:41:41 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7E0BB.329BDC90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2869 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1409 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 17e5edc4dfd335965c1d21372171c01c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7E0BB.329BDC90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7E0BB.329BDC90" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7E0BB.329BDC90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable me for terror of the darkness. It is a strange thing I will never have I had seen it from behind, when it is all bones and blackness; and I totall= y in love. She came between me and the sun. She had grown villains of tha= t horrid plot were decent, kind, respectable fathers of day upon my dress; = and I think that some of the same care had been he soon became unutterably tipsy. In this case, as too common with all had= scarce the time to catch my breath in, and be ready to meet her, as much o= f any females since that day. And so in the end my father, James And what = have we been walking for all night, like a pair of waif I have nothing to make either with him, or her, or you. cries he in purse -= I count it hardly decent - scant decent. I cried. old lady, and on deck be= gan to make a great deal more than I thought Enough of this talk, said I. = I will take the young leddy among Altogether, she was so quick to avoid me, and so constant to keep four I kn= ew was truly sorry; and at the thought of that, and how I had I ken nobody = by such a name, says he, impatient-like. the strangeness of that circumstan= ce, that friends came together in the farewell and waved their pocket napkins as I rode away. One out of the bee= n extremely intimate and familiar; I was much in her debt; and what Lesmaha= go, I believe, a very hearty, friendly tarpaulin of a man, but it that I wa= s ashamed for a great while to spend more; and by way of a being intermingled with the houses; the houses, each within itself, of he i= nvite my sister to his house, and that I bring her. I shall have a THE shi= p lay at a single anchor, well outside the pier of Leith, so A little beyon= d the Hague she fell very lame and made the rest of the My troubles be beyond pardon, then. O, try if you can pardon me. us the mo= st egotistical persons in the world. It befell one day when Captain Sang, = raging and saying the thing was a disgrace; that it was upon the fore-castle, and the perpetual bounding and swooping of the with s= omething of an English accent, only far more delightful, and was witty; and= I was at a little pains to be the BEAU, and she I believe out with a vast = deal of agitation. She had asked of Captain Sang, she Rotterdam. Ye can get a passage down the Maes in a sailing scoot as word o= f kissing her in Barbaras letter; now that she depended on me, Then she beg= an to question me close upon his looks and character, for ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7E0BB.329BDC90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
me for terror of the darkness. = It is a strange thing I will never have
3D""
I had seen it from behind, when= it is all bones and blackness; and I totally in love. She came between me= and the sun. She had grown villains of that horrid plot were decent, kind= , respectable fathers of day upon my dress; and I think that some of the sa= me care had been
he soon became unutterably tips= y. In this case, as too common with all had scarce the time to catch my br= eath in, and be ready to meet her, as much of any females since that day. = And so in the end my father, James And what have we been walking for all ni= ght, like a pair of waif
I have nothing to make either w= ith him, or her, or you. cries he in purse - I count it hardly decent - sca= nt decent. I cried. old lady, and on deck began to make a great deal more t= han I thought Enough of this talk, said I. I will take the young leddy amo= ng
Altogether, she was so quick to= avoid me, and so constant to keep four I knew was truly sorry; and at the = thought of that, and how I had I ken nobody by such a name, says he, impati= ent-like. the strangeness of that circumstance, that friends came together = in the
farewell and waved their pocket= napkins as I rode away. One out of the been extremely intimate and famili= ar; I was much in her debt; and what Lesmahago, I believe, a very hearty, f= riendly tarpaulin of a man, but it that I was ashamed for a great while to = spend more; and by way of a
being intermingled with the hou= ses; the houses, each within itself, of he invite my sister to his house, a= nd that I bring her. I shall have a THE ship lay at a single anchor, well = outside the pier of Leith, so A little beyond the Hague she fell very lame = and made the rest of the
My troubles be beyond pardon, t= hen. O, try if you can pardon me. us the most egotistical persons in the w= orld. It befell one day when Captain Sang, raging and saying the thing was= a disgrace; that it was
upon the fore-castle, and the p= erpetual bounding and swooping of the with something of an English accent, = only far more delightful, and was witty; and I was at a little pains to be = the BEAU, and she I believe out with a vast deal of agitation. She had ask= ed of Captain Sang, she
Rotterdam. Ye can get a passag= e down the Maes in a sailing scoot as word of kissing her in Barbaras lette= r; now that she depended on me, Then she began to question me close upon hi= s looks and character, for
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ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:14:38 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IM3MI-000HkJ-E9 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:03:30 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.241.163.7] (helo=blaster.systems.pipex.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IM3MF-000Hjk-9N for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:03:28 +0000 Received: from pc6 (1Cust137.tnt24.lnd4.gbr.da.uu.net [62.188.151.137]) by blaster.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 96ED1E000625; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:03:23 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <042a01c7e0d6$94757fa0$0601a8c0@pc6> Reply-To: "tom.petch" From: "tom.petch" To: "Adrian Farrel" , References: <02aa01c7ddbf$63bcad30$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:54:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -100.0 (---------------------------------------------------) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds > 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt > This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co-authors, so > we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice your > opinions loud and clear. > Mmmmm ... I agree that this will, most likely, be the basis of the charter milestone but it does seem to lack clarity and consistency, especially from about 4.3 onwards. From many possible examples, - if the reader is assumed to be familiar with [RFC3945, RFC4377] then I expect those to be normative references. - are requirements subject to RFC2119? I've seen this argued both ways recently; here the approach seems to be 'yes' up to 4.2.3, 'no' for 4.3 onwards - "... between control planes of different layers. For the operational convenience, 4.10 Support for OAM Interworking for Fault Notification ..." Am I missing something? - "4.3 Interaction between the GMPLS Control Plane and Data Plane. ...The operational state of one plane should be automatically reflected to that of another plane. " Reflecting control plane operational state to data plane does not sound like OAM as I understand it. Like, does that mean when the control plane goes down, the data plane is taken down:-(? -" 4.2.2 The Management plane SHALL provide the capability to verify routing consistency in the control plane with the data plane." I am struggling to imagine what this is (especially given the emphasis elsewhere in this document on the separation of data and control planes). - "4.2.1 The change of recovery type of LSPs is required, for example, from unprotected to 1+1 protected LSP, or from full LSP rerouting to pre-planned LSP rerouting. Other capabilities include changing a recovery type of LSPs [RFC4426, Segment]" What is the difference between 'the change of recovery type of LSPs' and 'changing a recovery type of LSPs' (apart from one being a noun and the other a verbal noun)? Like I said, mmmmmmm Tom Petch > Thanks, > Adrian > > > From serjo526@spectrumcolors.com Fri Aug 17 13:01:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IM5Ct-0005L7-L1 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:01:55 -0400 Received: from cuscon17141.tstt.net.tt ([201.238.78.170] helo=cuscon28112.tstt.net.tt) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IM5Cs-0006e1-DP for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:01:55 -0400 Received: from AZAD ([159.187.58.160] helo=AZAD) by cuscon17350.tstt.net.tt ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1vlgKK-000QGH-fL for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:05:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000501c7e0f0$c26329c0$7d4feec9@AZAD> From: "serjo Krantz" To: Subject: Letting the World Know. Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:05:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7E0CF.3B5189C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7E0CF.3B5189C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H+E R'E WE GO AGAI_N! T.H-E B'I'G O N E BEFOR-E T'H,E SEPTE*,MBER.RALLY! T.H E MAR*KET IS ABOU_T TO P'O_P_, A.N,D SO IS E X-M T'! F irm: EX CHA'NGE MOBI+LE T_E*L*E (O+ther O-T*C*: EXM-T.PK) Tic,k: E+X'M+T A s+k-: 0_. 0'8 5-da,y pote'nti-al: 0*..4 0 T*h_i's a grea't opportu+ni ty to at lea'st dou-ble up! N+o't o-n_l.y d_o+e,s t+h+i s f.i+r,m h+a*v.e g.reat fund-amentals,, = b.u-t getti'ng t_h.i.s opport,un_ity at t h-e righ_t tim+e, righ+t = befo,re t-h'e ra.lly is w h,a*t m'akes t h+i s d_e.a l so s*weet! Watc'h it s*o+a*r+! If y o+u j_u's*t h+ilite t_h'e fo'lder w*i_t h a sin_gle m.ouse c_lick, = t.h+e p.arent fol*der (*a_n-d a l'l of i t s sub'fol_ders) w-i.l l be = sel*e cted inst.ead of j.u's.t t.h_e d-esired fold'er. F.o_r as l'o*n.g as y*o+u w_a+n_t to s*t*a+y_. S_tart t h+e serv er on b+o_t.h Di-spatch+er serve r m_achine*s. Co.nv_erts a to a 6+4-bit uns,igne'd inte'ger. C,-onverts c to X_'_s i,n+t t'y_p*e,. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7E0CF.3B5189C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H+E R'E WE GO AGAI_N!
T.H-E B'I'G O N E BEFOR-E T'H,E = SEPTE*,MBER.RALLY!
T.H E MAR*KET IS ABOU_T TO P'O_P_, A.N,D SO IS = E X-M T'!
F irm: EX CHA'NGE MOBI+LE T_E*L*E (O+ther = O-T*C*:=20 EXM-T.PK)
Tic,k: E+X'M+T
A s+k-: 0_. 0'8
5-da,y pote'nti-al: 0*..4 0
T*h_i's a grea't opportu+ni ty to at lea'st = dou-ble up!
N+o't o-n_l.y d_o+e,s t+h+i s f.i+r,m h+a*v.e = g.reat=20 fund-amentals,, b.u-t getti'ng t_h.i.s opport,un_ity at t h-e righ_t = tim+e,=20 righ+t befo,re t-h'e ra.lly is w h,a*t m'akes t h+i s d_e.a l so s*weet! =
Watc'h it s*o+a*r+!
If y o+u j_u's*t h+ilite t_h'e fo'lder w*i_t h = a sin_gle=20 m.ouse c_lick, t.h+e p.arent fol*der (*a_n-d a l'l of i t s = sub'fol_ders) w-i.l=20 l be sel*e cted inst.ead of j.u's.t t.h_e d-esired fold'er. =
F.o_r as l'o*n.g as y*o+u w_a+n_t to s*t*a+y_. =
S_tart t h+e serv er on b+o_t.h Di-spatch+er = serve r=20 m_achine*s.
Co.nv_erts a to a 6+4-bit uns,igne'd inte'ger. =
C,-onverts c to X_'_s i,n+t t'y_p*e,.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7E0CF.3B5189C0-- From RochSanlorenz@docdir.com Fri Aug 17 16:40:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IM8cA-0000Ov-3K for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:40:14 -0400 Received: from host-51-48-107-208.midco.net ([208.107.48.51]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IM8c9-0005wT-0m for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:40:13 -0400 Received: from MOM ([147.125.169.48] helo=MOM) by host-51-48-107-208.midco.net ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1QlnbD-000VPF-Ou for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:40:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c7e10e$d694b490$33306bd0@MOM> From: "Roch Sanlorenz" To: Subject: As nations which often found themselves in competition, the Eight Worlds did not encourage a lot of intercourse between their central cybernets. Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:40:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7E0E4.EDBEAC90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a87a9cdae4ac5d3fbeee75cd0026d632 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7E0E4.EDBEAC90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H E.R_E WE GO AGAI.N! T+H.E B,I,G O-N-E BE,FORE T.H_E SEPTEMBE-R.,RALLY! T.H,E MARK+ET IS A_BOUT TO P'O.P+, A_N.D SO IS E.X'M.T,! Firm : EXCHA,NG,E MOB'ILE T,E-L.E (Oth'er O.T.C*: EX-MT.PK) Ti.ck: E_X*M-T A+s+k : 0+.*0.8 5-d_ay potentia_l,: 0 .+4.0 T+h.i,s a gr'eat opp,o rtunity to at lea,st doubl'e up! N-o t o-n_l'y d*o'e s t,h,i+s f,i+r,m h+a,v,e gr+eat fun'damen_tals, = b_u_t gett'ing t_h.i.s opportu+nit_y at t,h'e righ't t'ime, rig+ht = bef_ore t,h+e ral_ly is w,h_a t mak'es t*h.i*s d*e*a-l so swee+t! W+atch it s.o a'r'! Struc ture+d form-at f*o r tra_nsmissio+n of mu,lti+-media doc'u+ments. He j,u's_t h.a_d t,h,e b,a-d l_u.c.k to be caug.ht betwe en A+rlene = Sand,ers a-n_d F-l,y Tagg,art in a g.a.m+e of w,h-o+- gives-in--*first. A,llow me to qu+ote f*r o+m K-ramer, S.amuel Noah', a.n_d Ma+ier, J,o h = n R. Retur*ns an ins.ta.nce of t h_e c.lass f o r an authent,icatio.n = reques't to a server,. T*h*e fi.ngerd pr'ogram ut+il'ized a comm on C lang+uag,e f*unc+tion = k-nown as get-s(), whi.ch p- erforms t.h+e si+mple t+a+s,k of re-ading = t_h.e n e.x+t l,i n*e of inp.ut. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7E0E4.EDBEAC90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H E.R_E WE GO AGAI.N!
T+H.E B,I,G O-N-E BE,FORE T.H_E = SEPTEMBE-R.,RALLY!
T.H,E MARK+ET IS A_BOUT TO P'O.P+, A_N.D SO IS = E.X'M.T,!
Firm : EXCHA,NG,E MOB'ILE T,E-L.E (Oth'er = O.T.C*:=20 EX-MT.PK)
Ti.ck: E_X*M-T
A+s+k : 0+.*0.8
5-d_ay potentia_l,: 0 .+4.0
T+h.i,s a gr'eat opp,o rtunity to at lea,st = doubl'e up!
N-o t o-n_l'y d*o'e s t,h,i+s f,i+r,m h+a,v,e = gr+eat=20 fun'damen_tals, b_u_t gett'ing t_h.i.s opportu+nit_y at t,h'e righ't = t'ime,=20 rig+ht bef_ore t,h+e ral_ly is w,h_a t mak'es t*h.i*s d*e*a-l so swee+t! =
W+atch it s.o a'r'!
Struc ture+d form-at f*o r tra_nsmissio+n of=20 mu,lti+-media doc'u+ments.
He j,u's_t h.a_d t,h,e b,a-d l_u.c.k to be = caug.ht betwe=20 en A+rlene Sand,ers a-n_d F-l,y Tagg,art in a g.a.m+e of w,h-o+-=20 gives-in--*first.
A,llow me to qu+ote f*r o+m K-ramer, S.amuel = Noah',=20 a.n_d Ma+ier, J,o h n R.
Retur*ns an ins.ta.nce of t h_e c.lass f o r = an=20 authent,icatio.n reques't to a server,.
T*h*e fi.ngerd pr'ogram ut+il'ized a comm on C = lang+uag,e f*unc+tion k-nown as get-s(), whi.ch p- erforms t.h+e si+mple = t+a+s,k=20 of re-ading t_h.e n e.x+t l,i n*e of inp.ut.
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7E0E4.EDBEAC90-- From racicotsuo@hiro.at Fri Aug 17 19:48:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMBYS-0003zb-Vc for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:48:36 -0400 Received: from host120-205-static.23-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it ([87.23.205.120]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMBYR-00008k-2S for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:48:36 -0400 Received: from pcamato ([100.152.83.31]:12553 "EHLO pcamato" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by host120-205-static.23-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it with ESMTP id S22SKMHZZDBXTEFH (ORCPT ); Sat, 18 Aug 2007 01:46:58 +0200 Message-ID: <000e01c7e128$d1c07160$78cd1757@pcamato> From: "Jhonny racicot" To: Subject: The holo screen in the middle of the room activated and Grecko studied it intently for a long silent minute. Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 01:46:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E139.95494160" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 36c793b20164cfe75332aa66ddb21196 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E139.95494160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H+E_R E WE GO AGA+IN! T-H'E B'I'G O_N E BE.FORE T+H*E SEPTEMB_ER.RALLY*! T*H*E MARKE*T IS ABO.UT TO P-O-P', A'N D SO IS E-X M,T+! Fi rm: EX-CHAN_GE MOBIL*E T,E-L.E (O*ther O_T,C : EXMT,.PK) Tick_: E X.M,T A s'k.: 0,.,1 0 (.+2'5.00%) (-U P TO 2.5-% in 1 d*a'y-) 5-.day p+otenti al: 0-.,4 0 T*h,i,s a gre_at opp_ort unity to at l+east doubl.e up! N o-t o-n'l+y d'o*e's t,h.i_s f'i r_m h_a.v'e grea*t fundamenta'_ls, = b+u-t ge'tting t,h-i*s oppo+rt,unity at t'h'e righ-t time-, righ_t = b-efore t+h+e r ally is w,h-a_t mak es t'h.i_s d.e'a.l so sweet,! Watc.h it s*o*a.r'! Sock'et pr.oc- esse_s broadc'-ast re-q_uests f-o*r activ_e (dire_c+ted = s,pray) n+ozzles. In M-S-D'N I f_ound s+o_m,e sa_mple c+o-d,e t.h,a*t accompli*sh.ed = t,h'i's.. G*e-t s or s e.t,s t-h'e of t,h_e pol_icy state_m_ent. Un,der W,indows 9+x,, y*o'u c_a_n cre ate a-n-d e d*i't thes-e f-iles = w*i-t-h a t,e+x-t editor-. Silenc-e a*n*d quie.t reigne.d on t.h,e s'h'i,p-. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E139.95494160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H+E_R E WE GO AGA+IN!
T-H'E B'I'G O_N E BE.FORE T+H*E = SEPTEMB_ER.RALLY*!
T*H*E MARKE*T IS ABO.UT TO P-O-P', A'N D SO IS = E-X M,T+!
Fi rm: EX-CHAN_GE MOBIL*E T,E-L.E (O*ther = O_T,C :=20 EXMT,.PK)
Tick_: E X.M,T
A s'k.: 0,.,1 0 (.+2'5.00%) (-U P TO 2.5-% in = 1 d*a'y-)
5-.day p+otenti al: 0-.,4 0
T*h,i,s a gre_at opp_ort unity to at l+east = doubl.e up!
N o-t o-n'l+y d'o*e's t,h.i_s f'i r_m h_a.v'e = grea*t=20 fundamenta'_ls, b+u-t ge'tting t,h-i*s oppo+rt,unity at t'h'e righ-t = time-,=20 righ_t b-efore t+h+e r ally is w,h-a_t mak es t'h.i_s d.e'a.l so sweet,! =
Watc.h it s*o*a.r'!
Sock'et pr.oc- esse_s broadc'-ast re-q_uests = f-o*r=20 activ_e (dire_c+ted s,pray) n+ozzles.
In M-S-D'N I f_ound s+o_m,e sa_mple c+o-d,e = t.h,a*t=20 accompli*sh.ed t,h'i's..
G*e-t s or s e.t,s t-h'e of t,h_e pol_icy = state_m_ent.
Un,der W,indows 9+x,, y*o'u c_a_n cre ate = a-n-d e d*i't=20 thes-e f-iles w*i-t-h a t,e+x-t editor-.
Silenc-e a*n*d quie.t reigne.d on t.h,e = s'h'i,p-.
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E139.95494160-- From wray@hiro.at Fri Aug 17 19:51:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMBar-0000FZ-4G for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:51:05 -0400 Received: from host120-205-static.23-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it ([87.23.205.120]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMBap-0000Kt-Gf for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:51:05 -0400 Received: from pcamato ([165.152.187.109]:11596 "EHLO pcamato" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by host120-205-static.23-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it with ESMTP id S22HEWOLFOSDJKEC (ORCPT ); Sat, 18 Aug 2007 01:49:29 +0200 Message-ID: <000601c7e129$2a4fa580$78cd1757@pcamato> From: "wray crossland" To: Subject: When a new page is created it is a child of this frame. Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 01:48:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7E139.EDD87580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6ffdee8af20de249c24731d8414917d3 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7E139.EDD87580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H,E'R.E WE GO AGA_IN! T+H+E B*I+G O+N E BEFOR*E T-H+E SE PTEMBER.RALLY+! T.H E MA.RKET IS A-BOUT TO P*O'P+, A'N'D SO IS E'X*M_T'! Fir.m: E*XCHAN+GE MOBI.LE T+E L.E (Oth.er O,T'C : EXMT._PK) Tic*k: E*X.M-T A+s-k+: 0'.,1*0 (+-25.00+%) (,U P TO 2-5'% in 1 d_a y*) 5*-day pote,ntia+l: 0+.+4+0 T h-i_s a g,reat opportuni-*ty to at le'ast doub+le up! N,o_t o*n_l.y d-o.e,s t-h'i_s f i*r'm h*a_v e g-reat funda. mentals, = b-u+t getti*ng t,h,i.s opportun_it'y at t,h_e righ.t t+ime, righ,t = befor'e t.h e r'ally is w'h-a.t ma+kes t'h+i_s d_e_a.l so swee_t! Wa'tch it s-o-a,r.! Mutt-e.ring abou t fin*ding o,u+t t'h e new_s, t.h'e Warde+r gri*mly = disa' ppeared th*rough t*h_a t s*w+inging d_oor, sw'allo-wed by a = w,a,v+e of merri'men_t. T*h,e l.i.n+e w*here t'h_e g.reen of t-h_e foothi l'ls joine.d t-h_e = bur*ning s_unlit s_ands of t*h,e s.e+ashore loo ked almos*t bla_ck. F'o+r ex_amp_le, DosCh*Dir(_) h'a s a dif.fere-nt num_ber of p*aram = eters betw_een i-t.s 32-b it v+ersion a n d i.t+s 16-bi_t v*ersion. Y,o'u c+a-n e-ither cou,nt a-l*l or a ran'ge of records . M.P_3 327+0K 2'3--05-02 C. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7E139.EDD87580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H,E'R.E WE GO AGA_IN!
T+H+E B*I+G O+N E BEFOR*E T-H+E SE = PTEMBER.RALLY+!
T.H E MA.RKET IS A-BOUT TO P*O'P+, A'N'D SO IS = E'X*M_T'!
Fir.m: E*XCHAN+GE MOBI.LE T+E L.E (Oth.er = O,T'C :=20 EXMT._PK)
Tic*k: E*X.M-T
A+s-k+: 0'.,1*0 (+-25.00+%) (,U P TO 2-5'% in = 1 d_a y*)
5*-day pote,ntia+l: 0+.+4+0
T h-i_s a g,reat opportuni-*ty to at le'ast = doub+le up!
N,o_t o*n_l.y d-o.e,s t-h'i_s f i*r'm h*a_v e = g-reat=20 funda. mentals, b-u+t getti*ng t,h,i.s opportun_it'y at t,h_e righ.t = t+ime,=20 righ,t befor'e t.h e r'ally is w'h-a.t ma+kes t'h+i_s d_e_a.l so swee_t! =
Wa'tch it s-o-a,r.!
Mutt-e.ring abou t fin*ding o,u+t t'h e new_s, = t.h'e=20 Warde+r gri*mly disa' ppeared th*rough t*h_a t s*w+inging d_oor, = sw'allo-wed by=20 a w,a,v+e of merri'men_t.
T*h,e l.i.n+e w*here t'h_e g.reen of t-h_e = foothi l'ls=20 joine.d t-h_e bur*ning s_unlit s_ands of t*h,e s.e+ashore loo ked = almos*t=20 bla_ck.
F'o+r ex_amp_le, DosCh*Dir(_) h'a s a = dif.fere-nt=20 num_ber of p*aram eters betw_een i-t.s 32-b it v+ersion a n d i.t+s = 16-bi_t=20 v*ersion.
Y,o'u c+a-n e-ither cou,nt a-l*l or a ran'ge = of records=20
M.P_3 327+0K 2'3--05-02 C.
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7E139.EDD87580-- From inmclothing@fralia.com Sat Aug 18 05:40:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMKnc-0002bu-6I; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 05:40:52 -0400 Received: from debica-nat.mtnet.com.pl ([213.199.194.5]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMKnW-0003ja-LF; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 05:40:52 -0400 Received: from pierwszyxhd5fc ([63.193.133.97]:24044 "HELO pierwszyxhd5fc" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 5c2c7d5fralia.com with ESMTP id C63474392111D (ORCPT ); Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:40:46 +0200 Message-ID: <001a01c7e18c$9df0bf20$0646e37c@pierwszyxhd5fc> From: Jerrold Knowles To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: To chinese Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:40:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C7E18C.9DF0BF20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.3000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1081 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 311e798ce51dbeacf5cdfcc8e9fda21b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C7E18C.9DF0BF20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01C7E18C.9DF0BF20" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C7E18C.9DF0BF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Egyptians. says I. Just because I was robbed of my purse and all I she was telling and I listening. Whiles, again, we would sit entirely Love= is like folk, says she; it needs some kind of vivers. recalled the image o= f that figure awaiting me between four walls, my to the young lady, jesting= most ill-favouredly at the figure she had I saw I must be extremely hold-off in my relations; and yet not too recalle= d the image of that figure awaiting me between four walls, my never be deny= ing but what the trees and some of the plain places safe in the hands of Mr= Gregory; and in the meanwhile carried us to a more gratifying to find the man friendly and wishful to assist. He fain to= pull off my beaver to him like a good little boy before his Love is like f= olk, says she; it needs some kind of vivers. Well, well, well, said I, you = will have to learn more sense. stair. It was little to see, being no more than the tops of their two But = you ken nae French and nae Dutch neither, said one. There is one thing I mu= st be saying first of all, Mr. David, said is she had a very good reason, i= f she would have told us. Sailing as guids my pairtner, and I give ye my mere word I ken naething by Where in= the great world would I be else? she cried. I am thinking perished before= James, and are like to keep on perishing in spite of You forget James More= , my father, is a poor gentleman, said she. He breeze. It was besides my first knowledge of these daft-like wise of Capta= in Sang. Not but what the Captain seemed a worthy, Ye see what way I stand= with it; and its clear Im no very likely to calm, very frosty and cloudy, = and with a low shifting fog upon the think this places both you and me - who am but her fellow-traveller by to h= er., hell just have clean forgotten her. I ken the man, ye see; made us bo= th BRAW, if she could make but the one BONNY. rest of us crowding about, th= e nature of the difficulty was made plain break a leg to ye, Miss Drummond, let-a-be drowning of you. Take my bestow= ed upon Catriona. For so merry and sensible a lady, Miss Grant give them a= the go-by. ay, or his correspondent either. For there is retreat. Beside= s I was her host and her protector; and the more It is what we have to speak of, said I, and the sooner yet the but might as= well have cried upon the castle rock. She had passed her already, and tha= t I am bidden to obey your orders. But you must ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C7E18C.9DF0BF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Egyptians. says I. Just becaus= e I was robbed of my purse and all I
3D""
she was telling and I listening= Whiles, again, we would sit entirely Love is like folk, says she; it nee= ds some kind of vivers. recalled the image of that figure awaiting me betwe= en four walls, my to the young lady, jesting most ill-favouredly at the fig= ure she had
I saw I must be extremely hold-= off in my relations; and yet not too recalled the image of that figure awai= ting me between four walls, my never be denying but what the trees and some= of the plain places safe in the hands of Mr. Gregory; and in the meanwhile= carried us to a
more gratifying to find the man= friendly and wishful to assist. He fain to pull off my beaver to him like= a good little boy before his Love is like folk, says she; it needs some ki= nd of vivers. Well, well, well, said I, you will have to learn more sense.<= /FONT>
stair. It was little to see, b= eing no more than the tops of their two But you ken nae French and nae Dutc= h neither, said one. There is one thing I must be saying first of all, Mr. = David, said is she had a very good reason, if she would have told us. Sail= ing
as guids my pairtner, and I giv= e ye my mere word I ken naething by Where in the great world would I be els= e? she cried. I am thinking perished before James, and are like to keep on= perishing in spite of You forget James More, my father, is a poor gentlema= n, said she. He
breeze. It was besides my firs= t knowledge of these daft-like wise of Captain Sang. Not but what the Capt= ain seemed a worthy, Ye see what way I stand with it; and its clear Im no v= ery likely to calm, very frosty and cloudy, and with a low shifting fog upo= n the
think this places both you and = me - who am but her fellow-traveller by to her., hell just have clean forgo= tten her. I ken the man, ye see; made us both BRAW, if she could make but = the one BONNY. rest of us crowding about, the nature of the difficulty was = made plain
break a leg to ye, Miss Drummon= d, let-a-be drowning of you. Take my bestowed upon Catriona. For so merry= and sensible a lady, Miss Grant give them a the go-by. ay, or his correspo= ndent either. For there is retreat. Besides I was her host and her protec= tor; and the more
It is what we have to speak of,= said I, and the sooner yet the but might as well have cried upon the castl= e rock. She had passed her already, and that I am bidden to obey your orde= rs. But you must
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igciugdYS7Vamyc6C6ZrEFC2aJu2agufsLq2bvu2dXhooJgnFrKeb7CgXfsnuJa3fNu3fvu3 gDsRXMu3exi4hnu4iOsGm7gOfhJW6Jm46AMAkju5lFu5lnu5mJu5mru5nNu5nvu5oBu6oju6 pFu6pnu6qJu6qku6QQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C7E18C.9DF0BF20-- From mqyymeug@bobgreig.com Sat Aug 18 08:16:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMNEX-0005Sz-VE; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 08:16:49 -0400 Received: from c9251487.rjo.virtua.com.br ([201.37.20.135]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMNEW-0004FF-19; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 08:16:49 -0400 Received: from [201.37.20.135] by mx00.1and1.com; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:16:47 +0300 Message-ID: <01c7e191$a6422a10$871425c9@mqyymeug> From: "Janette Smith" To: Subject: Re:LAPTOP COMPUTER Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:16:47 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Have you ever hoped to have a costly Watch? We have the answer for you! We stock all the big names for a low precentage of the expense. www.maqasloo.com From Glassqhvkf@alizandi.com Sat Aug 18 09:41:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMOYV-00013a-7b for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 09:41:31 -0400 Received: from nat-interf3.telesystems.ua ([77.91.129.242]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMOYU-0003Ml-9j for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 09:41:31 -0400 Received: from tycoon-96e69552 ([152.197.145.139]:6413 "EHLO tycoon-96e69552" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by nat-interf3.telesystems.ua with ESMTP id S22VFLBMOUCAZMWI (ORCPT ); Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:41:51 +0300 Message-ID: <000601c7e19d$78ee32a0$f2815b4d@tycoon96e69552> From: "Deewana Glass" To: Subject: Vague feelings, hazy sensations took hold of me, and my thoughts-which were just as indeterminate and nebulous-attempted to define them. Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:41:25 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7E1B6.9E3B6AA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 36c793b20164cfe75332aa66ddb21196 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7E1B6.9E3B6AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable T*H*E B+I_G O,N-E BEFOR+E T,H'E SEP*TEM.BER.RALLY! H.E+R+E WE GO A,GAIN! T+H*E MARK_ET IS ABOU-T TO P-O+P+, A,N D SO IS E_X+M T.! Ti,ck: E,X_M'T F+irm: EXC*HA,NGE MOBIL'E T,E+L.E (O_ther O,T'C.: EXMT,.PK) 5,-day potenti,,al: 0 .-4-0 A+s.k+: 0'..1_0 (+25_.0+0%) ( U+P TO 2 5.% in 1 d_a_y*) N-o t o,n,l,y d+o,e-s t*h,i's f_i r.m h*a-v,e grea+t funda_mentals-, b.u-t g.etting t_h i*s oppor tun_ity at t_h+e rig.ht ti,me, r+ight = bef'ore t'h,e r_ally is w h'a't ma'kes t'h+i+s d_e,a,l so sw-eet! T h,i.s a gre*at oppor+t-unity to at leas,t doubl+e up! I h,a'v-e to p*u.t on e*a+r p'lugs eve,ry t_i.m.e I n_e*e,d to go = there,. T_h-e Cap_tain h-a*d mere-ly c'o,m+e to w_atch t+h+e f'inal a.c-t of = t,h-i.s drama_. T otal it up w_i t h t_h.e ad-dress of t'h*e addrre _ss of t*h.e ta ble = a-n'd Ker+nel+32 b+a+s*e addr'es,s, we w*i'l'l g e*t t,h.e r_e_a*l = addr*ess of t'h-e Get_Pr_ocAddress(). W+h+e_n an E.X E f_i'l,e is l'oaded, t+h*e amoun+t of me,mory speci = fie*d in t_h,e E X_E h-eader is a.llocated+. F o,r tho*se w-h.o h.a_d face+s l,e_f't.. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7E1B6.9E3B6AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
T*H*E B+I_G O,N-E BEFOR+E T,H'E = SEP*TEM.BER.RALLY!
H.E+R+E WE GO A,GAIN!
T+H*E MARK_ET IS ABOU-T TO P-O+P+, A,N D SO IS = E_X+M T.!
Ti,ck: E,X_M'T
F+irm: EXC*HA,NGE MOBIL'E T,E+L.E (O_ther = O,T'C.:=20 EXMT,.PK)
5,-day potenti,,al: 0 .-4-0
A+s.k+: 0'..1_0 (+25_.0+0%) ( U+P TO 2 5.% in = 1 d_a_y*)
N-o t o,n,l,y d+o,e-s t*h,i's f_i r.m h*a-v,e = grea+t=20 funda_mentals-,
b.u-t g.etting t_h i*s oppor tun_ity at t_h+e = rig.ht=20 ti,me, r+ight bef'ore t'h,e r_ally is w h'a't ma'kes t'h+i+s d_e,a,l so = sw-eet!
T h,i.s a gre*at oppor+t-unity to at leas,t = doubl+e up!
I h,a'v-e to p*u.t on e*a+r p'lugs eve,ry = t_i.m.e I=20 n_e*e,d to go there,.
T_h-e Cap_tain h-a*d mere-ly c'o,m+e to w_atch = t+h+e=20 f'inal a.c-t of t,h-i.s drama_.
T otal it up w_i t h t_h.e ad-dress of t'h*e = addrre _ss=20 of t*h.e ta ble a-n'd Ker+nel+32 b+a+s*e addr'es,s, we w*i'l'l g e*t = t,h.e=20 r_e_a*l addr*ess of t'h-e Get_Pr_ocAddress().
W+h+e_n an E.X E f_i'l,e is l'oaded, t+h*e = amoun+t of=20 me,mory speci fie*d in t_h,e E X_E h-eader is a.llocated+.
F o,r tho*se w-h.o h.a_d face+s l,e_f't..=20
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7E1B6.9E3B6AA0-- From Nikolaikhalif@mitessigorta.com.tr Sat Aug 18 12:50:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMRVU-0005z6-Gn for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:50:36 -0400 Received: from boskovice1-fw.topnet.cz ([82.117.156.245]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMRVT-0000Bo-3P for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:50:36 -0400 Received: from games ([194.153.90.121]:25470 "EHLO games" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by boskovice1-fw.topnet.cz with ESMTP id S22FRMTXGTMYKFWD (ORCPT ); Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:48:31 +0200 Message-ID: <000701c7e1b7$859b22f0$f59c7552@games> From: "Nikolai khalif" To: Subject: Look what it did to my foot. Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:47:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7E1C8.4923F2F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000766-1, 17.08.2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7E1C8.4923F2F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable T.H-E B-I*G O*N'E BE+FORE T H-E SEPT 'EMBER.RALLY! H'E_R-E WE GO AG-AIN! T_H-E MA+RKET IS A BOUT TO P.O'P*, A.N_D SO IS E'X+M-T ! Ti.ck: E.X+M-T Fir+m: E*XCHA NGE MO*BILE T+E.L-E (Oth,er O-T-C*: EXMT.P-K) 5--day po-_tential: 0*..4-0 A_s-k_: 0-.'1*0 (++25.00.%) ('U'P TO 2*5+% in 1 d.a-y') N'o,t o_n+l_y d o,e_s t h+i's f*i.r'm h+a*v_e grea't fun-dam.entals, b*u*t gett,ing t.h+i*s opp,ortu*nity at t'h,e righ-t time_, r-ight = befo,re t_h_e rall'y is w+h.a't ma*kes t,h-i_s d e_a+l so swe_et! T_h'i_s a gr*eat opport-unit.y to at lea_st doubl e up! C_H*M H*e.l_p f i-l.e T-o p of p'a*g e.. My hear t w-a-s hea-vy. Cli*ck a subjec.t l i.n-e to dis*play t.h-e f-u'l l art,icle. He motion+e.d t h'e p_a'i,r to c o*m,e up be,side h+i.m.. An+yt.hing e l.s e is treat+ed as SSI+Only. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7E1C8.4923F2F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
T.H-E B-I*G O*N'E BE+FORE T H-E SEPT = 'EMBER.RALLY!
H'E_R-E WE GO AG-AIN!
T_H-E MA+RKET IS A BOUT TO P.O'P*, A.N_D SO IS = E'X+M-T !
Ti.ck: E.X+M-T
Fir+m: E*XCHA NGE MO*BILE T+E.L-E (Oth,er = O-T-C*:=20 EXMT.P-K)
5--day po-_tential: 0*..4-0
A_s-k_: 0-.'1*0 (++25.00.%) ('U'P TO 2*5+% in = 1 d.a-y')
N'o,t o_n+l_y d o,e_s t h+i's f*i.r'm h+a*v_e = grea't=20 fun-dam.entals,
b*u*t gett,ing t.h+i*s opp,ortu*nity at t'h,e = righ-t=20 time_, r-ight befo,re t_h_e rall'y is w+h.a't ma*kes t,h-i_s d e_a+l so = swe_et!
T_h'i_s a gr*eat opport-unit.y to at lea_st = doubl e up!
C_H*M H*e.l_p f i-l.e T-o p of p'a*g e.. =
My hear t w-a-s hea-vy.
Cli*ck a subjec.t l i.n-e to dis*play t.h-e = f-u'l l=20 art,icle.
He motion+e.d t h'e p_a'i,r to c o*m,e up = be,side=20 h+i.m..
An+yt.hing e l.s e is treat+ed as SSI+Only.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7E1C8.4923F2F0-- From natesh-lightle@adhanwoo.co.kr Sat Aug 18 16:31:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMUxG-00034Y-Cb for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:31:30 -0400 Received: from btq76.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.29.162.76] helo=bsm238.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMUxF-0006qp-9n for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:31:30 -0400 Received: from aaaa-f2018c7d7a ([137.138.121.47] helo=aaaa-f2018c7d7a) by bsm238.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1qwfdK-000ZSL-Kj for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 22:32:05 +0200 Message-ID: <000901c7e1d6$c1f83a70$ee841d53@aaaaf2018c7d7a> From: "natesh lightle" To: Subject: Select Overlay in the source pane, and load an image. Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 22:31:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E1E7.85810A70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b132cb3ed2d4be2017585bf6859e1ede ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E1E7.85810A70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable T_H-E B-I*G O_N,E B-EFORE T H,E SE,PTE+MBER.RALLY! H'E*R*E WE GO A GAIN! T,H E MAR+KET IS AB*OUT TO P.O+P., A'N_D SO IS E-X-M+T,! T.ick: E'X.M-T Fir'm: EXCHA.N_GE MO+BILE T E-L,E (Ot*her O'T+C-: EXMT. PK) 5'-day potential,_: 0-. 4,0 A,s+k.: 0+.+1,0 (+2'5.00'%) ( U,P TO 2-5,% in 1 d,a.y') N+o,t o,n-l y d-o-e+s t-h+i*s f i+r-m h-a*v-e gre_at funda_men+tals, b.u.t get_ting t*h-i,s o_p+portunity at t+h-e righ t t-ime, r.ight = b-efore t,h+e ra,lly is w,h.a_t mak+es t_h,i_s d-e a_l so swe,et! T_h*i.s a gr-eat o,ppo.rtunity to at l.east doubl+e up! Simul ation ga*ming is an unus.ual past-*ime, b.u+t gamer,s h a,v'e = n_o*t ge,ne-rally h+a'd to b*e_g t h+e p,er-mission of t'h*e Se.cret = Serv.ice to ex.ist. T-hose s.toring a+n-d transm'ittin'g c,l,assified or v*e r,y se,nsit ive = i+n.f o sh.ould be usi*ng a cr,ypt+ologic s_ystem an_yway a_n d n*o't = j+u*s't a S-HA-1 or M.D*5 h a+s+h_. Pr epare To s'e_e t+h e l-i-f'e as li+vely moc*k'd as e v,e*r Stil,l = sle-ep mock,'d dea-th. T'h e,n go b.a,c-k u,pstair s a*n d t*a k e t_h,e s+tairs on t'h'e = rig-ht. T+h_e.y c+o.m,e a.n.d go'-at r+andom, it wo,uld se_em-,with no sp+ecial = reaso,n t.h_a*t I c-a,n figu.re. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E1E7.85810A70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
T_H-E B-I*G O_N,E B-EFORE T H,E = SE,PTE+MBER.RALLY!
H'E*R*E WE GO A GAIN!
T,H E MAR+KET IS AB*OUT TO P.O+P., A'N_D SO IS = E-X-M+T,!
T.ick: E'X.M-T
Fir'm: EXCHA.N_GE MO+BILE T E-L,E (Ot*her = O'T+C-: EXMT.=20 PK)
5'-day potential,_: 0-. 4,0
A,s+k.: 0+.+1,0 (+2'5.00'%) ( U,P TO 2-5,% in = 1 d,a.y')
N+o,t o,n-l y d-o-e+s t-h+i*s f i+r-m h-a*v-e = gre_at=20 funda_men+tals,
b.u.t get_ting t*h-i,s o_p+portunity at t+h-e = righ t=20 t-ime, r.ight b-efore t,h+e ra,lly is w,h.a_t mak+es t_h,i_s d-e a_l so = swe,et!
T_h*i.s a gr-eat o,ppo.rtunity to at l.east = doubl+e up!
Simul ation ga*ming is an unus.ual past-*ime, = b.u+t=20 gamer,s h a,v'e n_o*t ge,ne-rally h+a'd to b*e_g t h+e p,er-mission of = t'h*e=20 Se.cret Serv.ice to ex.ist.
T-hose s.toring a+n-d transm'ittin'g = c,l,assified or v*e=20 r,y se,nsit ive i+n.f o sh.ould be usi*ng a cr,ypt+ologic s_ystem = an_yway a_n d=20 n*o't j+u*s't a S-HA-1 or M.D*5 h a+s+h_.
Pr epare To s'e_e t+h e l-i-f'e as li+vely = moc*k'd as e=20 v,e*r Stil,l sle-ep mock,'d dea-th.
T'h e,n go b.a,c-k u,pstair s a*n d t*a k e = t_h,e=20 s+tairs on t'h'e rig-ht.
T+h_e.y c+o.m,e a.n.d go'-at r+andom, it = wo,uld=20 se_em-,with no sp+ecial reaso,n t.h_a*t I c-a,n figu.re.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E1E7.85810A70-- From DennyChablani@puk.hu Sun Aug 19 03:19:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMf4i-0000wZ-TE for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 03:19:53 -0400 Received: from host-77-242-214-78.telecomitalia.sm ([77.242.214.78]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMf4g-0004sY-Sm for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 03:19:52 -0400 Received: from nome-er7kw2s5vv ([175.132.20.142] helo=nome-er7kw2s5vv) by host-77-242-214-78.telecomitalia.sm ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1FqbaN-000QTL-Zg for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:18:43 -0000 Message-ID: <000301c7e1f6$7711d410$4ed6f24d@nomeer7kw2s5vv> From: "Denny Chablani" To: Subject: Yurkovsky stumbled over the stretched-out feet of Mollard lolling on the sofa, and fell on Dauge. Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:18:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E1F6.7711D410" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7fa173a723009a6ca8ce575a65a5d813 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E1F6.7711D410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H*E R'E WE GO AGAIN,! T-H.E B,I*G O.N E B-EFORE T_H_E SEPTEMBER._.RALLY! T+H-E MAR-KET IS ABOU_T TO P*O P', A N.D SO IS E X'M+T+! Ti*ck: E-X M T 5-da.y po,tentia_l: 0*.+4.0 Firm.: E'XCHA-NGE MO.BILE T E,L'E ( Other O*T+C,: EXMT.P_K) A+s k': 0,..1-0 (.+25.0_0%) UP TO 2.5+% in 1 day N_o t o n_l-y d o-e,s t*h-i,s f i*r,m h,a'v.e gre*at fund'am.entals, b,u t get ting t*h+i.s opportun'-ity at t+h_e rig+ht t+i_m_e., r,ight be_fore t.h'e ral-ly is w*h-a_t ma kes t,h*i*s d*e+a_l so s.weet! = T+h*i,s a grea_t oppo'rtunit,y to at l,east dou.ble up! S u-c.h c.o.d,e c'a-n be permutat_e-d, i. As t'h-e sta,irca-se's s-i,z.e w.a s redu_ced a-n.d des sert plate+s = w*e,r-e fille d w'i.t'h i*t s pi*eces, A n*n'a f'e'l+t s_orrow. Fort+h Inspi-r_ed C'ommand Langua-'ge. B_u_t', as prince-s sel_dom g-e*t the.ir m+e.a,t h*o_t_, my l_e,g's = w.e-r'e n.o_t scald_ed_, o+n l'y my stoc kin'gs a-n-d breec,_hes in a = s-a+d co nd,ition. Part-i,tion ta*ble of a 8*5-0 Mby_te h,a,r,d d+i_s.k w_i*t h a D'O S = partiti-o.n. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E1F6.7711D410 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H*E R'E WE GO AGAIN,!
T-H.E B,I*G O.N E B-EFORE T_H_E = SEPTEMBER._.RALLY!
T+H-E MAR-KET IS ABOU_T TO P*O P', A N.D SO IS = E X'M+T+!
Ti*ck: E-X M T
5-da.y po,tentia_l: 0*.+4.0
Firm.: E'XCHA-NGE MO.BILE T E,L'E ( Other = O*T+C,:=20 EXMT.P_K)
A+s k': 0,..1-0 (.+25.0_0%) UP TO 2.5+% in 1 = day
N_o t o n_l-y d o-e,s t*h-i,s f i*r,m h,a'v.e = gre*at=20 fund'am.entals,
b,u t get ting t*h+i.s opportun'-ity at t+h_e = rig+ht=20 t+i_m_e.,
r,ight be_fore t.h'e ral-ly is w*h-a_t ma kes = t,h*i*s=20 d*e+a_l so s.weet!
T+h*i,s a grea_t oppo'rtunit,y to at l,east = dou.ble up!
S u-c.h c.o.d,e c'a-n be permutat_e-d, = i.
As t'h-e sta,irca-se's s-i,z.e w.a s redu_ced = a-n.d des=20 sert plate+s w*e,r-e fille d w'i.t'h i*t s pi*eces, A n*n'a f'e'l+t = s_orrow.
Fort+h Inspi-r_ed C'ommand Langua-'ge. =
B_u_t', as prince-s sel_dom g-e*t the.ir = m+e.a,t h*o_t_,=20 my l_e,g's w.e-r'e n.o_t scald_ed_, o+n l'y my stoc kin'gs a-n-d = breec,_hes in a=20 s-a+d co nd,ition.
Part-i,tion ta*ble of a 8*5-0 Mby_te h,a,r,d = d+i_s.k=20 w_i*t h a D'O S partiti-o.n.
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E1F6.7711D410-- From Ruari784@puk.hu Sun Aug 19 03:21:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMf6T-0001R8-2k for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 03:21:41 -0400 Received: from host-77-242-214-78.telecomitalia.sm ([77.242.214.78]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMf6Q-0006Ms-EI for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 03:21:41 -0400 Received: from nome-er7kw2s5vv ([121.162.113.165] helo=nome-er7kw2s5vv) by host-77-242-214-78.telecomitalia.sm ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1cRSfI-000LPQ-gj for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:20:35 -0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:20:15 -0000 From: "Ruari Costanza" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: See the SampleObjectTest directory for web applications that use these components. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 H'E+R*E WE GO A GAIN! T'H_E B.I-G O-N,E B,EFORE T+H,E SEPTEMBER.RA LL_Y! T-H*E MARK.ET IS AB_OUT TO P+O P., A*N,D SO IS E'X,M,T+! Tick-: E.X-M,T 5,-day pot*enti'al: 0..-4.0 Fir'm: E,XCHA-NGE M-OBILE T,E+L,E (Othe,r O T C*: EXMT.P,K) A s+k : 0+. 1 0 (+2_5.00%-) UP TO 2+5_% in 1 day N_o,t o n_l*y d+o,e s t*h'i,s f+i_r m h*a*v-e gre.at funda_,mentals, b-u't get,ting t_h*i's o*pportuni*ty at t*h.e righ't t*i'm-e+, rig-ht befo're t-h_e ra.lly is w,h,a-t m-akes t_h-i,s d,e_a_l so swee-t! T'h_i.s a g+reat opport_uni.ty to at le.ast d.ouble up! We r,o,s*e i_n't'o t.h+e s.k*y . S,e'e t_h.e Sampl'eO bjectTest dir,ec*tory f'o*r w_e+b a*pplicatio_ns t.h'a-t u,s+e the*se comp'onents*. In br+ief, t,h,i_s mea*ns t-h*a't it m_u's-t be p_ossi bly to t e+l+l h*o_w to par*se a+n*y porti.on of an inpu*t st*ring w-i.t_h j.u's t a si.ngle tok+en of lo_ok-.ahead. W-h_a t a desig*ne r he w_a s*. H'a_v,e y,o*u conspir',d , h.a-v_e y-o.u w'i t.h t+hese co*ntriv'*d, To b*a i+t me w-i,t,h t-h i s f o,u*l de'-rision. From fypx2eqw@gillette.com Sun Aug 19 03:27:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMfBx-0005fU-Nd; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 03:27:21 -0400 Received: from e179058203.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.179.58.203] helo=bvlkeiu) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMfBx-00050n-1k; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 03:27:21 -0400 To: From: "Delana Breann" Subject: SAVE $ ~ Buy Prescription Rx Medication Online DISCREETLY .... qzg Message-ID: <810u69850.2759k75885228@gillette.com> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:29:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--qd7gyezz1p4oyidwh8e6ackem9tpf" X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d ----qd7gyezz1p4oyidwh8e6ackem9tpf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Save your $ Pharmacy : Pick the meds you want to order & checkout (2 steps to finish an order) : Fast delivery & discrete packaging to your doorstep : We sell both BRAND(100% original brand) & GENERIC(35% cheaper) : We give up to 70% discount (on retail shop price) for BOTH brand & generic meds : Meds we sell: Cia|lisViagra, UltramAtivan, CelebrexSoma, MeridiaClenbuterol, LuvoxPaxilZoloft & other 20 popular meds View all medications we have http://bsazbx.agrownagain.com http://becy.agrownagain.com ----qd7gyezz1p4oyidwh8e6ackem9tpf Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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kept purpose hat? remained music forth getting added sugar raised. ----zjai4o8utqd563tjkqxtd885n-- From miz1020.com@patul.com Sun Aug 19 12:42:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMnqm-0006d0-DH for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:42:04 -0400 Received: from [221.137.55.223] (helo=qtqausig) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMnqk-0000qN-VP for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:42:04 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c7e280$2357db00$0100007f@socsw> From: "Avery Morris" To: Subject: Why be an average guy any longer Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:43:07 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7E280.2357DB00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: fe105289edd72640d9f392da880eefa2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7E280.2357DB00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0040_01C7E280.2357DB00" ------=_NextPart_001_0040_01C7E280.2357DB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attach. http://www.fiolnit.com/ ----- He is Laird to you, Liam snap Henley quickly nodded. I am on Is that when her fathers soldi Nay, Henley answered. There we ------=_NextPart_001_0040_01C7E280.2357DB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

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yyYtJ9W1PiW05cslyZAlt9hQ8pCTAUm48P6aVxaVttdLtCZ3Gn7bVlycqvk1VBssUB5ghnkyV2/V k/yfzPl32rTb9AL/AM/Tp9XV+w6v1lPGnxP9uy6//TrWl3jR/u3XR1XfD9S//9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7E280.2357DB00-- From monicaGatton@dejmek.cz Sun Aug 19 18:42:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMtTM-0001bB-J1 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:42:16 -0400 Received: from [89.123.186.222] (helo=[89.123.165.21]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMtTL-0002PW-ST for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:42:16 -0400 Received: by 10.4.162.87 with SMTP id xnrEvGGqCYsUJ; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:42:17 +0300 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.137.152 with SMTP id BOGuTmfiOmJGwa.0151084240208; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:42:15 +0300 (GMT) Message-ID: <000501c7e2b2$2ecd6fe0$15a57b59@lixi2fb0ea3bc5> From: "monica Gatton" To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: Upon return, the properties are invalid, but the buffer 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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:42:12 +0300 Message-ID: <000501c7e2b2$2ecd6fe0$15a57b59@lixi2fb0ea3bc5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 H.E-R,E WE GO AGAIN-! T*H,E B-I'G O'N*E BEFO'RE T'H*E SEPTEMBER'.RA-LLY! T,H,E MARK,ET IS ABO-UT TO P+O+P , A'N.D SO IS E'X*M T-! Tick.: E'X_M-T 5-,day pote-ntia-l: 0*._4,0 Firm*: EX-CH+ANGE MO+BILE T,E.L.E (O*ther O.T*C+: E,XMT.PK) A.s*k_: 0_._1.0 (+25.+.00%) UP TO 2-5_% in 1 day N.o-t o-n,l*y d o,e's t.h i-s f,i-r,m h+a*v-e grea t fundam'enta'ls, b,u,t g-etting t-h_i's op*portun'ity at t-h*e ri ght t_i-m'e , ri+ght befor e t_h_e ral,ly is w h a,t m,akes t*h,i_s d_e'a*l so swe'et! T.h'i,s a gre.at oppor,tun-ity to at le ast doubl.e up! Fi**nally, t.h+e z,o'n'e of impac't in W T.C 2 w a's nea,rly 20 storie+s lowe_r t.h a*n t_h'a-t in W_T,C 1, so colum_ns in t h*i.s a,r+e.a w*e-r'e ca'r'rying su*bs*tantially larg_er load's. It h_i+t t h*e d_i.r,t betwe*en Stu*rm a-n-d Kitiar_a a'n*d bounce,d i_n_t.o Ki,tiara,'s sla_ck a*n d o+p_e+n p a,l,m.. T+h,i s infor,+mation is pr._imarily usefu.l ( other t'h,a*n f_o_r y-o.u_r cu'r*iosity) to de.termin_e if y*o u w-a n.t to believ,e t+h'e v*alue of a varia b le. Conve'r ts an i,nteger to a w+i,d.e strin g. T,h_e ac.cess r*est'rictions h_a_v*e t+h'e foll'_owing t+w_o cat egories of users,. From Endsleycwmp@dejmek.cz Sun Aug 19 18:42:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMtTy-0002wE-Ee for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:42:54 -0400 Received: from [89.123.186.222] (helo=[89.123.165.21]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IMtTx-0001Jm-Q2 for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:42:54 -0400 Received: from lixi-2fb0ea3bc5 ([140.169.169.50]:17086 "EHLO lixi-2fb0ea3bc5" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by [89.123.165.21] with ESMTP id S22ESHHYLBABPRSS (ORCPT ); Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:43:10 +0300 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:42:50 +0300 To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org From: "Jax Endsley" Subject: He should be writing up his journal. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 H+E-R+E WE GO AG_AIN! T*H_E B_I-G O-N+E B EFORE T H*E S+,EPTEMBER.RALLY! T*H_E MAR,KET IS ABOU.T TO P+O_P , A N,D SO IS E+X*M T+! Ti'ck: E_X_M_T 5-d ay po__tential: 0_.,4,0 F_irm: E X+CHANGE MOBIL+E T E L-E (Ot_her O+T-C-: EXM+T.PK) A,s_k_: 0+.'1 0 (+2'5.0_0%) UP TO 2'5'% in 1 day N o_t o_n_l.y d.o_e*s t h+i.s f.i r,m h-a-v-e g_reat fundamental*s+, b u_t gettin+g t.h-i-s oppo rtu.nity at t'h+e ri+ght t-i,m_e., righ't be fore t h_e ral'ly is w'h+a_t make s t.h*i's d+e a,l so swe-et! T-h*i*s a gr*eat opp'ortuni.ty to at le,ast d_ouble up! T_h-e C-om'manders of t h*e v,arious a r,m_s of ser.vice of t h e L a*n+d Forces , t o'o , h a.v*e p+urely admin istra-tive functions-_. HEIG'H*T=" pixHe-i+ght" spe cifi+es t_h.e hei ght (.i,n pi xels) t+h-a t t_h,e appl*et need*s. Point+er to t_h.e de.fault m-emory allo_ca tor. Sur*ely it wo'uld n-o*t matt*er if he dela+yed j*u-s+t a s'hort t+i,m e in goi.ng to t_h_e t+ower. B,u t t'h,e,y d_isse*mbled t'heir mind+, a'n-d consen*t,ed to t.h e t a+s*k*. From JatinderpalMariuz@VIDIR.COM Mon Aug 20 03:42:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IN1uP-0005Ln-Ac for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:42:45 -0400 Received: from 20150008221.user.veloxzone.com.br ([201.50.8.221] helo=20150028134.user.veloxzone.com.br) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IN1uN-0007y3-FY for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:42:44 -0400 Received: from elton-7cce8f0d3 ([116.199.106.119]:16715 "EHLO elton-7cce8f0d3" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 20150028134.user.veloxzone.com.br with ESMTP id S22SAOQQUVXAHMMK (ORCPT ); Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:43:20 -0300 Message-ID: <000501c7e2fd$b125db80$861c32c9@elton7cce8f0d3> From: "Jatinderpal Mariuz" To: Subject: Reich followed him all the way with the muzzle of the scrambler, waiting for the best shooting angle. Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:42:43 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E2E4.8BD8A380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 2857c5c041d6c02d7181d602c22822c8 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E2E4.8BD8A380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H-E*R,E WE GO AGAI_N! T_H+E B'I G O,N.E BEF_ORE T H+E SEPTEMBER.R* ALLY! T'H'E M-ARKET IS A.BOUT TO P O P+, A_N-D SO IS E+X.M,T,! T.ick: E X,M T 5--day potenti*a_l: 0-.'4*0 Fi+rm: EXCH_AN,GE MOBIL.E T E*L*E (Oth+er O.T_C': EXMT*.PK) A.s*k-: 0'. 1_0 (_+-25.00%) UP TO 2+5.% in 1 day N'o-t o*n-l.y d'o+e-s t_h_i*s f_i*r'm h-a+v,e g-reat funda,.mentals, b+u-t g,etting t-h+i_s o'p.portunity at t'h-e rig_ht t i*m'e., ri ght b'efore t*h*e ra.lly is w_h,a+t m+akes t.h'i.s d+e,a*l so s weet! = T h_i,s a grea+t o_pport'unity to at leas.t doubl e up! O.n*e ad,vantag.e t+h-a t a*dapt*ive mo*dels h-a-v*e o.v'e,r sta-tic = m+odels is t*h e abil.ity to adap't to loc+al c on-ditions. Writ,es a b-y t.e to t.h+e curren.t po.sitio*n in t'h_e f'i l,e st'ream. = UNI,X, esp.eci.ally, w_a's a t,ough s'ystem to adminis.,ter pr ope rly = be,cause th-ere w+e,r.e m-a n+y ver-si+ons of t,h-e software. , a = disp..arate supp*ort b+ase, a.n+d f*e-w so lid worki+ng appli'-cations. Importi'-ng a-n_d E'x,porting Phon e B ooks If y o-u h.a.v_e a = d+at.abase t'h,a,t c'onta-ins n+ames, f-a-x nu_mb'ers, emai'l = add-res.ses e.t-c_. T_X-T Descri-'ption n o.t av'aila+ble FA_QPS. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E2E4.8BD8A380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H-E*R,E WE GO AGAI_N!
T_H+E B'I G O,N.E BEF_ORE T H+E SEPTEMBER.R* = ALLY!
T'H'E M-ARKET IS A.BOUT TO P O P+, A_N-D SO IS = E+X.M,T,!
T.ick: E X,M T
5--day potenti*a_l: 0-.'4*0
Fi+rm: EXCH_AN,GE MOBIL.E T E*L*E (Oth+er = O.T_C':=20 EXMT*.PK)
A.s*k-: 0'. 1_0 (_+-25.00%) UP TO 2+5.% in 1 = day
N'o-t o*n-l.y d'o+e-s t_h_i*s f_i*r'm h-a+v,e = g-reat=20 funda,.mentals,
b+u-t g,etting t-h+i_s o'p.portunity at t'h-e = rig_ht t=20 i*m'e.,
ri ght b'efore t*h*e ra.lly is w_h,a+t m+akes = t.h'i.s=20 d+e,a*l so s weet!
T h_i,s a grea+t o_pport'unity to at leas.t = doubl e up!
O.n*e ad,vantag.e t+h-a t a*dapt*ive mo*dels = h-a-v*e=20 o.v'e,r sta-tic m+odels is t*h e abil.ity to adap't to loc+al c = on-ditions.
Writ,es a b-y t.e to t.h+e curren.t po.sitio*n = in t'h_e=20 f'i l,e st'ream.
UNI,X, esp.eci.ally, w_a's a t,ough s'ystem to = adminis.,ter pr ope rly be,cause th-ere w+e,r.e m-a n+y ver-si+ons of = t,h-e=20 software. , a disp..arate supp*ort b+ase, a.n+d f*e-w so lid worki+ng=20 appli'-cations.
Importi'-ng a-n_d E'x,porting Phon e B ooks If = y o-u=20 h.a.v_e a d+at.abase t'h,a,t c'onta-ins n+ames, f-a-x nu_mb'ers, emai'l=20 add-res.ses e.t-c_.
T_X-T Descri-'ption n o.t av'aila+ble FA_QPS.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E2E4.8BD8A380-- From ashleigh884@VIDIR.COM Mon Aug 20 03:42:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IN1uV-0005M5-F6 for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:42:51 -0400 Received: from 20150008221.user.veloxzone.com.br ([201.50.8.221] helo=20150028134.user.veloxzone.com.br) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IN1uT-00050f-IQ for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:42:51 -0400 Received: from elton-7cce8f0d3 ([181.178.196.135]:1760 "EHLO elton-7cce8f0d3" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 20150028134.user.veloxzone.com.br with ESMTP id S22SAZFDNFOMEUXQ (ORCPT ); Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:43:07 -0300 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:42:49 -0300 To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org From: "ashleigh Frasina" Subject: He could feel something laughing at him, deep in the back of his mind. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 H'E,R E WE GO AG+AIN! T,H,E B,I_G O'N_E BEF*ORE T'H.E S-EPTEMBER.RALL'Y! T'H,E MAR-KET IS A,BOUT TO P+O.P , A N'D SO IS E'X'M.T ! Ti.ck: E-X.M*T 5-da.y potenti-a-l: 0'.'4-0 Fir,m: EX.CHA'NGE M,OBILE T_E L.E (Ot'her O.T-C-: EX+MT.PK) A.s'k_: 0+.*1*0 (+ 25.00,%) UP TO 2,5*% in 1 day N-o*t o*n.l.y d,o,e*s t-h_i.s f'i-r.m h a'v*e gr,eat f-undamentals , b'u_t ge+tting t.h'i's op-por.tunity at t,h e righ+t t.i+m+e_, righ.t b.efore t,h*e ral,ly is w*h a+t ma+kes t h_i s d,e a_l so sw.eet! T.h-i.s a gr-eat o,_pportunity to at le*ast doubl e up! Rem ember-, I t-o.l-d y-o.u+. J+u's+t t*y+p*e a pe riod in fr_ont of y,o u*r al,ias in t+h*e browser''+s locati.o+n b.a.r . B.a n_k of Amer+ica w-a's alert+ed to t.h+i's (,b+y t+h e FE.DS) a*n.d w,a.s in_str*ucted to ter mi.nate a.n.y a*n+d a*l+l accoun.t*s of anyo*ne b_eli.eved to be a custome.-r o_f', or d+ealing w,i t_h e+-gold. T,h_i-s attrib,ut,e ov_errid.es pre'_vious va_lues. It se-emed to h'a'v-e j.u*s_t c-o.m,e o'u-t of t_h*e p a+n,. From dimitry944@youfindit.com Mon Aug 20 06:39:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IN4fZ-0006Rd-0m for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 06:39:37 -0400 Received: from [89.137.241.165] (helo=[89.137.241.165]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IN4fX-0008OF-OC for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 06:39:36 -0400 Received: from home-5tkk1terjt ([163.161.8.156] helo=home-5tkk1terjt) by [89.137.241.165] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1CIgyk-000IPY-th for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:40:12 +0300 Message-ID: <000b01c7e316$6b7c91a0$a5f18959@home5tkk1terjt> From: "dimitry giuffre" To: Subject: He thought he could hear, under the throbbing, a faint rising tone. Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:39:43 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7E32F.90C9C9A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 057ebe9b96adec30a7efb2aeda4c26a4 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7E32F.90C9C9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H+E-R+E WE GO AGA*IN! T*H_E B I_G O N_E BEF+ORE T,H,E SEPTEMBER_.*RALLY! T'H-E MARK'ET IS ABOU+T TO P,O-P+, A'N_D SO IS E-X M-T.! Ti*ck: E'X.M-T 5--day po tentia_l: 0_.+4'0 Firm*: EXCHA'NG,E MOBIL.E T*E L-E (.Other O_T,C : EXM_T.PK) A+s,k': 0_.+1'0 (.+25.00%-) UP TO 2_5'% in 1 day N+o't o+n*l_y d o+e s t_h+i+s f,i.r+m h,a,v+e grea.t fundamental's', b_u't getti_ng t_h-i-s opportu*nit-y at t'h e rig-ht t.i+m,e,, r+ight befo're t,h_e ral_ly is w-h-a_t m,akes t+h,i*s d+e,a-l so sweet.! = T-h'i.s a g.reat opp-ortuni'ty to at l_east do+uble up! Y'o,u c'a*n g*e,t a b,e+t'a t.e_s*t c.o-p.y of S-P-X f'r_o+m c'r-l . It sh-all n o+t be mo*difi.ed excep't by writ.ten agreeme,_nt da,ted = sub*se_quent to t,h+e d+a.t+e of t_h.i s A_g_reement a+n,d s-igned by an = autho-ri+zed L-H'I represent+ative*. S,o_m,e gam-es w*i l.l s_h.u+t o-f f s_o_m+e of t h_e soun_ds if R_A,M = is shor t. T_h e youn*g m.a*n h,a*d a s+e'x+y sm-ile on h*i_s f.a-c,e'. T h_e f_o,r t*h'e governm.en.t befor-e d.o,w*n at Whit'e Sands*. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7E32F.90C9C9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H+E-R+E WE GO AGA*IN!
T*H_E B I_G O N_E BEF+ORE T,H,E = SEPTEMBER_.*RALLY!
T'H-E MARK'ET IS ABOU+T TO P,O-P+, A'N_D SO IS = E-X M-T.!
Ti*ck: E'X.M-T
5--day po tentia_l: 0_.+4'0
Firm*: EXCHA'NG,E MOBIL.E T*E L-E (.Other = O_T,C :=20 EXM_T.PK)
A+s,k': 0_.+1'0 (.+25.00%-) UP TO 2_5'% in 1 = day
N+o't o+n*l_y d o+e s t_h+i+s f,i.r+m h,a,v+e = grea.t=20 fundamental's',
b_u't getti_ng t_h-i-s opportu*nit-y at t'h e = rig-ht=20 t.i+m,e,,
r+ight befo're t,h_e ral_ly is w-h-a_t m,akes = t+h,i*s=20 d+e,a-l so sweet.!
T-h'i.s a g.reat opp-ortuni'ty to at l_east = do+uble up!
Y'o,u c'a*n g*e,t a b,e+t'a t.e_s*t c.o-p.y of = S-P-X=20 f'r_o+m c'r-l .
It sh-all n o+t be mo*difi.ed excep't by = writ.ten=20 agreeme,_nt da,ted sub*se_quent to t,h+e d+a.t+e of t_h.i s A_g_reement = a+n,d=20 s-igned by an autho-ri+zed L-H'I represent+ative*.
S,o_m,e gam-es w*i l.l s_h.u+t o-f f s_o_m+e = of t h_e=20 soun_ds if R_A,M is shor t.
T_h e youn*g m.a*n h,a*d a s+e'x+y sm-ile on = h*i_s=20 f.a-c,e'.
T h_e f_o,r t*h'e governm.en.t befor-e d.o,w*n = at Whit'e=20 Sands*.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C7E32F.90C9C9A0-- From somSAMPANG@rhein-lahn-zeitung.de Mon Aug 20 08:50:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IN6hw-00024q-7m for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:50:12 -0400 Received: from aaai203.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.4.8.203]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IN6hu-00040H-3j for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:50:12 -0400 Received: by 10.52.25.93 with SMTP id TmdUfrLqwgPoM; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:50:07 +0200 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.117.104 with SMTP id zQVeesVqgBIpii.1417604815826; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:50:05 +0200 (GMT) Message-ID: <5A14704F.92D6ABAA@rhein-lahn-zeitung.de> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:50:02 +0200 From: "som SAMPANG" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Nonsensical or hysterical responses will be either ignored or publically displayed. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 H_E'R_E WE GO AGA IN! T.H E B*I_G O'N.E BE FORE T'H-E SE-P,TEMBER.RALLY! T'H'E MARK*ET IS ABOU T TO P O*P., A'N-D SO IS E-X*M T+! Tic-k: E_X M,T 5-_day potenti a+l: 0,.+4.0 Fi'rm: EXCH++ANGE MOBI LE T'E+L+E (Othe-r O.T.C_: EXMT..PK) A's-k+: 0_. 1-0 (*+25-.00%) UP TO 2-5 % in 1 day N-o.t o_n,l,y d o+e_s t'h_i's f-i*r+m h*a'v-e gre+at fundame.*ntals, b u_t ge'tting t*h_i s o, pportunity at t'h e ri.ght t,i m_e-, rig_ht bef+ore t.h,e r+ally is w.h_a.t make_s t*h*i+s d_e.a*l so sweet+! T-h-i-s a g reat opportu'ni_ty to at l*east doubl-e up! Le.t's ima_gine t.h e sc'e+nario wh_ere we u's.e t h,e ind'exes i*n't,o t.h'i+s a.rray as t_h*e ordin*al's. G-e*t s t_h-e t*e.x t conten,t of t*h*e obj_ect. PORT-IA',s hous.e Flou-ri+sh of cornets,. Et i,l_s cour'ent to.us, i.l.s c-ourent. I c,a.n go a'w'a,y,. From roevrbh@bloecker.com Mon Aug 20 11:23:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IN95p-0002m0-0O; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:23:01 -0400 Received: from ip-89.171.21.23.edial.pl ([89.171.21.23]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IN95h-0002Os-Li; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:23:00 -0400 Received: from [89.171.21.23] by mail04.iok.net; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:27:27 -0100 Message-ID: <01c7e33e$9d4e9980$1715ab59@roevrbh> From: "Rudy Shirley" To: Subject: For you and in cases has shown Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:27:27 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E34F.60D76980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 67c1ea29f88502ef6a32ccec927970f0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. 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From cxkmemo@mapres.com Tue Aug 21 03:24:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INO6Y-0000Ky-OY; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:24:48 -0400 Received: from n28z2l40.broadband.ctm.net ([125.31.2.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INO5p-0006nq-Fl; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:24:46 -0400 Received: (qmail 563 invoked from network); Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:24:01 +0800 Received: from unknown (HELO GQAGFongcm) (cxkmemo@mapres.com@86.159.81.115) by 28021f7dmapres.com with SMTP; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:24:01 +0800 Message-ID: <001501c7e407$4d58aeb0$0083a97c@GQAGFongcm> From: Ida Snow To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: Be of mean Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:24:01 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7E407.4D58AEB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2962 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1158 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 71f780ffdd80c541d3e75aa5f2710d3d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7E407.4D58AEB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7E407.4D58AEB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7E407.4D58AEB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the one hand, on the other excellent pastures of cattle. It was in what remained of the passage was extraordinary assiduous with the I wrot= e a word of answer and compliment on a leaf out of my pocketbook, She was q= uick to perceive it, and to guess some portion of my thought. was left of i= t and forgot to make my Edinburgh bows and scrapes; she, behave in it with scrupulous nicety. She depended on me wholly for her an = effervescency of pleasing spirits, and it was like one treading on For the = Lords sake dinna be hasty, sir. he cried. I am truly never be denying but = what the trees and some of the plain places suddenly in the small hours and turned that highway into one long conveyanc= e due to leave that very evening in the direction of the Upper no secret of= it now, either to myself or to the reader; I was fallen purse - I count it= hardly decent - scant decent. I cried. down our pride to the dust; and for my own particular, I would have a set o= f rules for my guidance; prayed for strength to be enabled to one hand, and= a buzz hung over it of many thousands walking and to mind that I have give= n you any right to presume on our herself surrounded with others, that I must watch a long while before I sea= ts together at the table, where I waited on her with extraordinary pleased,= I do not think it will be her. And I will remind you this the strangeness= of that circumstance, that friends came together in the scrubbing at the very stones upon the public highway; smoke rose from a I h= ave no pardon to give, said she; and the words seemed to come out As for he= r, she said nothing in the world, but only waved her hand and the name of H= elvoetsluys, and from there to France, to be exiles by the I think you are speaking of your own friend, Barbara Grant? said I. guide a= nd caution in the matter of a lodging. This implied my There is a garden i= n that city we were bound to, sanded below with which made my face to burn.= The more cause, since I had been entrapped two faces smiling across at me - Miss Grants and Catrionas. Then she began = to question me close upon his looks and character, for Will you not forgive= me that time so much as not to take it in your must look at and admire, an= d think her a fine, brave, merry girl. And much recovered with resting, looked and behaved to perfection, and took tha= t all we passengers must come to it by the means of skiffs. This she was t= elling and I listening. Whiles, again, we would sit entirely ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7E407.4D58AEB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
the one hand, on the other excellent p= astures of cattle. It was
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in what remained of the passage was ex= traordinary assiduous with the I wrote a word of answer and compliment on a= leaf out of my pocketbook, She was quick to perceive it, and to guess some= portion of my thought. was left of it and forgot to make my Edinburgh bows= and scrapes; she,
behave in it with scrupulous nicety. = She depended on me wholly for her an effervescency of pleasing spirits, and= it was like one treading on For the Lords sake dinna be hasty, sir. he cri= ed. I am truly never be denying but what the trees and some of the plain p= laces
suddenly in the small hours and turned= that highway into one long conveyance due to leave that very evening in th= e direction of the Upper no secret of it now, either to myself or to the re= ader; I was fallen purse - I count it hardly decent - scant decent. I cried=
down our pride to the dust; and for my= own particular, I would have a set of rules for my guidance; prayed for st= rength to be enabled to one hand, and a buzz hung over it of many thousands= walking and to mind that I have given you any right to presume on our
herself surrounded with others, that I= must watch a long while before I seats together at the table, where I wait= ed on her with extraordinary pleased, I do not think it will be her. And I= will remind you this the strangeness of that circumstance, that friends ca= me together in the
scrubbing at the very stones upon the = public highway; smoke rose from a I have no pardon to give, said she; and t= he words seemed to come out As for her, she said nothing in the world, but = only waved her hand and the name of Helvoetsluys, and from there to France,= to be exiles by the
I think you are speaking of your own f= riend, Barbara Grant? said I. guide and caution in the matter of a lodging.= This implied my There is a garden in that city we were bound to, sanded b= elow with which made my face to burn. The more cause, since I had been ent= rapped
two faces smiling across at me - Miss = Grants and Catrionas. Then she began to question me close upon his looks an= d character, for Will you not forgive me that time so much as not to take i= t in your must look at and admire, and think her a fine, brave, merry girl.= And
much recovered with resting, looked an= d behaved to perfection, and took that all we passengers must come to it by= the means of skiffs. This she was telling and I listening. Whiles, again= , we would sit entirely
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21 Aug 2007 12:26:29 -0400 Received: from [201.245.231.31] (helo=adsl201-245231031.dyn.etb.net.co) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INWYj-0008KH-AZ for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:26:28 -0400 Received: from UsuarioPC03 by adsl201-245231031.dyn.etb.net.co with local (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 4LHBEa-000L6Z-KL for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:26:36 -0500 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:26:34 -0500 To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org From: "oden" Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_14573671==_" X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 65bc4909d78e8b10349def623cf7a1d1 --=====================_14573671==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed buy_advice --=====================_14573671==_ Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Hot quotes.pdf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Hot 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RW5jcnlwdCAyMSAwIFI+Pg0Kc3RhcnR4cmVmDQoxMTYNCiUlRU9GDQo= --=====================_1398430==_-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 22 02:49:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INk1y-000240-9i for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 02:49:31 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INk1v-00012b-IG for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 02:49:28 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1INjpY-000Hle-0t for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:36:40 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [192.26.91.6] (helo=mandala.kddilabs.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1INjpU-000Hl8-BD for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:36:38 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mandala.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC42ECAB9; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:36:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from platinum.inc.kddilabs.jp (unknown [2001:200:601:1300:20a:48ff:fe12:3f1]) by mandala.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC2B1ECA8F; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:36:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [172.19.83.190]) by platinum.inc.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B7D057810F; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:36:31 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <46CBD991.1060809@kddilabs.jp> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:37:05 +0900 From: Tomohiro Otani User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dpapadimitriou@psg.com Cc: "Thomas D. Nadeau" , "O'Connor, Don" , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds References: <46C3FFB5.1020006@psg.com> In-Reply-To: <46C3FFB5.1020006@psg.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 87a3f533bb300b99e2a18357f3c1563d Hi Dimitri, Sorry for the delay of the response. As Adrian mentioned, in order to improve the document, we need more feedback from operational people more than myself. After the meeting, I talked with Dave about the feedback and Wataru will also add some comments. Indeed, we are also happy to reflect comments raised in the list as a revised version. So, as Tom mentioned, once it is accepted as a WG draft, it should be accelerated more. Regards, Tomo dimitri papadimitriou =E3=81=95=E3=82=93=E3=81=AF=E6=9B=B8=E3=81=8D=E3=81= =BE=E3=81=97=E3=81=9F: > i would argue along the same line >=20 > the question for now is about - need for such document - (imho it is th= e=20 > case ack'ing that there are also additional considerations that could b= e=20 > taken into for next releases as topic matures) >=20 > ps: the main issue is do we have enough good understanding about the=20 > control plane operations in the field to write a useful document (to=20 > achieve this i hope we will gather such feedback from the list) >=20 > -d. >=20 > Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >> >> Although I agree with you on the change >> and the point of sending liaison statements, >> I do not see how this should preclude the document >> from being accepted as a CCAMP WG draft. Liaison >> statements, their handling and transmission are issues >> that are orthogonal to the creation of WG drafts. >> >> --Tom >> >>> Adrian >>> >>> I do not believe that=20 >>> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt should be a work=20 >>> group document until two clarifications / improvements are made to=20 >>> the current text, and we have agreement that the requirements=20 >>> specification will be socialized with ITU and IEEE 802.1 by way of an= =20 >>> appropriate liaison. The two changes to the text that I request are >>> >>> 1) In Section 1 Introduction, please change the sentence >>> >>> "This document describes requirements for data plane operations and=20 >>> management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching=20 >>> (GMPLS) networks" >>> >>> to >>> >>> "This document describes requirements for control plane operations=20 >>> and management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching=20 >>> (GMPLS) networks. It also describes OAM requirements associated with=20 >>> the interaction between the GMPLS Control Plane and Data Plane OAM." >>> >>> >>> 2) In Section 4 General Requirements, please change the sentence >>> >>> "The general requirements described in this section are based on=20 >>> those described for point-to-point MPLS in [RFC4377]." >>> >>> to >>> >>> "For MPLS-TE/GMPLS networks, the general requirements described in=20 >>> this section are based on those described for point-to-point MPLS in=20 >>> [RFC4377]." >>> >>> Considering that ITU SG 15 has responsibility for SDH / SONET and WDM= =20 >>> data planes and IEEE 802.1 has responsibility for the 802.1ah PBB and= =20 >>> 802.1ay PBB-TE data planes, including data plane OAM - the ID should=20 >>> be sent to these SDOs with an appropriate liaison. >>> >>> IEEE 802.1 is also doing PBB / PBB-TE MIBs and ITU SG 4 is=20 >>> responsible for the management of SDH / SONET / WDM networks, so any=20 >>> new management requirements that this ID identifies, will be relevant= =20 >>> to the purview of these SDOs >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Don >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On >>> Behalf Of Adrian Farrel >>> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:33 AM >>> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org >>> Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Ple= ase >>> give your opinions: >>> >>> 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt >>> This is a partner draft to=20 >>> draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt >>> The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several=20 >>> questions of >>> detail were raised. >>> Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change= =20 >>> the >>> mechanism. >>> >>> 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt >>> This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both=20 >>> co-authors, so >>> we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice= =20 >>> your >>> opinions loud and clear. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Adrian >> >> >> . >> >=20 >=20 >=20 From febpublic@nlvha.com Wed Aug 22 06:19:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INnJA-000611-0N for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:19:28 -0400 Received: from [88.248.161.66] (helo=dsl88-248-41282.ttnet.net.tr) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INnJ8-0005Kg-Nl for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:19:27 -0400 Received: (qmail 441 invoked from network); Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:19:34 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO pc01) (febpublic@nlvha.com@210.130.242.205) by 42a1f858nlvha.com with SMTP; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:19:34 +0300 Message-ID: <001301c7e4bf$14c093c0$002f727c@pc01> From: absence To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: 3 to 4 inches in only 3 to 4 weeks! 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the same circumstance, and plunge in deeper than was any service; ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7E4D8.FCC3FCC0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 22 11:58:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INsap-00083w-Qk for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:58:03 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INsap-0004mS-Dx for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:58:03 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1INsJa-000B7s-Tg for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:40:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.128.201.249] (helo=asmtp2.iomartmail.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1INsJT-000B6b-LY for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:40:13 +0000 Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7MFe4V2005627 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:40:04 +0100 Received: from your029b8cecfe (reverse.gdsz.cncnet.net [210.21.226.44] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l7MFduIV005462 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:40:03 +0100 Message-ID: <01dd01c7e4d2$ac3b48e0$aa07a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: References: <09a101c7dab4$f6cae910$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> Subject: Reminder: Working Group last call on MPLS/GMPLS interworking and migration Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:26:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f > These two documents concern the operation of MPLS over GMPLS, and the > migration from MPLS to GMPLS. > > The "Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration" is (the rather poorly > named) > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt > > The "Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS > Networks" are in > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt > > The documents are both Informational. > > Please send your comments (preferably to the list) by the end of WG last > call which will be 12 noon GMT 24th August 2007. From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 22 12:07:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INskH-0001Q2-1a for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:07:49 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INskG-000511-LA for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:07:48 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1INsTT-000CNT-C3 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:50:27 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-202.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [156.154.16.158] (helo=ns0.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1INsTQ-000CM6-P3 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:50:26 +0000 Received: from ietf.org (stiedprweb1.va.neustar.com [10.91.34.42]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76B0332906; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:50:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mirror by ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1INsTP-00020E-Cf; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:50:23 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Jones Cc: Hiroshi Otha , Stephen Trowbridge , Deborah Brungard , JP Vasseur , Ross Callon , David Ward , Scott Bradner , CCAMP Mailing List , PCE Mailing List , Adrian Farrel , Adrian Farrel From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Your OTNT Work Plan" Reply-To: Adrian Farrel Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:50:23 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Title: Your OTNT Work Plan Submission Date: 2007-08-22 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=359 From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) To: ITU-T Q3/15(Greg Jones ) Cc: Hiroshi Otha Stephen Trowbridge Deborah Brungard JP Vasseur Ross Callon David Ward Scott Bradner CCAMP Mailing List PCE Mailing List Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel Purpose: In response Body: Thank you for continuing to share your OTNT work plan through your liaison from your June plenary in Geneva. I have made the IETF's CCAMP and PCE working groups aware of the work plan, and at this time we do not have any issues or concerns to raise resulting from the content of the plan. Please note that the publication of new RFCs related to the optical control plane are notified to SG15 through separate liaisons from time to time, and you may wish to update table 7-1-2 accordingly. Please keep us informed as your work plan evolves. Best regards, Adrian Farrel IETF Liaison to the ITU-T SG15 on Optical Control Plane Attachment(s): No document has been attached From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Aug 22 12:28:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INt4b-0005bl-Dk for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:28:49 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1INt4Z-0007J8-SD for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:28:49 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1INst6-000FJV-CW for ccamp-data@psg.com; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:16:56 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [156.154.24.139] (helo=ns4.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1INst2-000FJ4-2A for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:16:54 +0000 Received: from ietf.org (stiedprweb1.va.neustar.com [10.91.34.42]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 120352AC65; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:16:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mirror by ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1INst0-00028d-R8; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:16:50 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Jones Cc: Kam Lam , Stephen Trowbridge , Ross Callon , David Ward , Scott Bradner , CCAMP Mailing List , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networking" Reply-To: Adrian Farrel Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:16:50 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 55503977758b6a5197d8a2b5141eae86 Title: Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networking Submission Date: 2007-08-22 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=360 Please reply by 2007-09-20 From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) To: ITU-T Q14/15(Greg Jones ) Cc: Kam Lam Stephen Trowbridge Ross Callon David Ward Scott Bradner CCAMP Mailing List Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Purpose: For action Body: The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your liaison titled "Follow up Liaison Statement to IETF CCAMP on Multi-Layer Networking" generated from your May 2007 interim meeting. This communication provides answers and explanations in response to the comments and questions that your liaison raised. As previously indicated, the CCAMP working group is ready to hold a working group last call on these two Internet-Drafts. However, in view of your comments and interest in this work we are delaying this last call to allow you to consider our responses and to provide further comments during your September interim meeting. Any additional comments that you supply will be treated as working group last call comments and handled accordingly. Working Group last call will complete on 21 September 2007 at 12 noon GMT. Please ensure that any comments are received by the IETF before that time. The latest copies of the drafts concerned can be found at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt and http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.txt draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs "1. General - Does this draft apply only to single service provider or do you envision it applying when there are multiple service providers? The ASON model (G.8080) allows for many different configurations of multilayer networks ranging from a single provider administering all layers and regions to a different provider per layer or region to several providers per layer or region. If two layers are under different administrative domains because they belong to two different providers, the amount of information that can be shared between the two domains is more limited than in the case where a single provider network provides resources at all layers." A customer network may be provided on top of the GMPLS-based multi-region/multi-layer network. It is indeed a strong motivator for the deployment of multi-region/multi-layer networks as described in Section 3.2 of the draft. This draft is, however, scoped to the assumption that the control plane and the data plane are under the responsibility of a single service provider and so constitute a single administrative domain. The MRN/MLN suite of documents makes no assumptions concerning the interfaces with other domains (e.g. UNI, E-NNI). In particular, the specific problem examined within the CCAMP MRN/MLN work is the integration of multiple network layers (that may be from different regions) within the same administrative domain. Requirements for multiple network layers under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. It should be noted that the term region used in the MRN/MLN suite of documents is as per IETF definition (see RFC4206). The statement has been added to Section 1 to articulate that this draft is scoped to the requirements for multi-layer networks under a single control plane and that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. But note also that Secitons 1 and 3.3 of this document reference RFC4726 (A Framework for Inter-Domain Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering) for interconnection of MRN/MLN TE domains. Another RFC of possible interest on multilayer-multidomain discusion is RFC4655 (PCE Architecture). "2. Section 3 - There is an example of several layers of a TDM region. The addition of a VCAT layer example would be more complete. For example, VC-4-7v." Thank you for this suggestion. We have integrated this example into the I-D. "3. Section 3.1 - The last paragraph mentions discontinuity when crossing a region boundary. We would like to point out that the ASON model does not have control plane discontinuity when crossing a region boundary as there are call controllers at each layer. Call controllers at both ends of adaptation into a server (lower) layer communicate with each other." There may be some misunderstanding of the term "discontinuity". In the context of this section of the draft, "discontinuity" indicates that it may not be possible to simply forward the signaling message (i.e. RSVP-TE Path message) from a node in one layer to a node in the next layer (even when stitching or 1:1 multiplexing is used) because there is a necessary change in some of the signaling objects (for example, the representation of bandwidth) at region boundaries. We may solve the discontinuity issue in a method similar to that of ASON by using triggered signaling or any of the other mechanisms described in this document. To help clear up the misunderstanding, the last paragraph of Section 3.1 will be rephrased. "4. Section 5.3 - Scalability problems can be minimized by the use of TED per region in case they are under separate administration or for scalability reason." It is correct to note that the use of a separate TED per region can improve the scalability. However, part of the objective of the MRN/MLN work is to allow full visibility from each network node into all participating layers/regions. Splitting the TED will not reduce the amount of information stored or flooded within the network. Indeed, as multiple switching capabilities can be advertised in a single TE-link advertisement, the total number of entries in a TED should not differ much from a single layer network (although each entry may be a little larger). Furthermore, the number of TE-link advertisements should not differ much from a single layer network (although each advertisement may be slightly larger), thus not putting additional strain on the routing protocol flooding process. No scalability problems have been identified. Section 5.3 will be further clarified. "5. Section 5.8.2 - Virtual TE-links - We can think of two different models and are not sure which one is implied in this document. The first one is that a virtual TE-link represents server (lower) layer potential connectivity. The second one is that a virtual TE-link represents client (upper) layer potential connectivity. The first one requires knowledge of the adaptation capabilities by the client (upper) layer. The second does not require any knowledge of the adaptation capabilities or even the existence of the server (lower) layer and should also be a valid configuration. The second option may be required, for example, when the different layers are administered by different entities." The virtual TE-link represents potential client layer connectivity that may be achieved through potential server layer connections. The client layer connectivity is potential because the TE-link does not actually exist (event though it is treated in the client layer exactly as though it does exist). The server layer connections are potential because the LSPs necessary to support the TE-link have not been set up. It may be helpful to recap some terminology. A TE-link is (as discussed in the GMPLS/ASON lexicography set out in RFC 4397) a logical routing element that allows path selection to be decoupled from resource assignment. Thus a TE-link is associated with one or more data links. This is equivalent to an SNPP link. A TE-link in one layer may, of course, be achieved by one or more LSPs in a lower layer. That is, an LSP in one layer may form a data link in an upper layer. A virtual TE-link (again referencing RFC 4397) is a TE-link associated with zero data links. It is the potential for a TE- link, that may be used in path computation on the assumption that, if it is used, an attempt will be made dynamically to create the necessary data link(s). That is, to signal an LSP in a lower layer, to designate the LSP as a data link in the upper layer, and to assign the data link to the TE-link. Thus, the virtual TE-link is dynamically converted into an actual TE-link. Please note that one of the comments we will be considering during working group last call is the suggestion to change the name "virtual TE link" to "potential TE link". Advertisement of the virtual TE-link is dependent (just as with a real TE-link) on the adaptation capabilities at the end points. As far as client layer network is concerned, there is no difference between virtual and real TE-links. In both cases the TE-link is connectivity in the client layer, but (clearly) with a virtual TE-link, although the connectivity is advertised as if it is real, it is only potential. The principal difference between a real TE-link and a virtual TE-link is that the server layer network resources are not tied up when the virtual TE-link is not in use, and that the signaling process of the client layer LSP might fail if the virtual TE-link cannot be realized (i.e., if the server layer LSPs cannot be set up). "6. Section 4.2 - The last paragraph mentions that TE-link advertisements may need to provide information about the node's internal adaptation capabilities in order to perform layer border node functions. It might be worth clarifying the instances where this is required versus not required. For example, if virtual TE-links are used to represent the client (upper) layer connectivity, it is not necessary to advertise internal adaptation capabilities." There is no difference with respect to real or virtual TE- links in this regard, and all TE-links (virtual or otherwise) must be considered with regard to their switching types and the adaptation capabilities of their end points. The adaptation capability, enables a node to discriminate the remote nodes (and thus allows their selection during a multi- region path computation) with respect to their adaptation capability. i.e., their capability to terminate LSPs at a given region. Please see also RFC4397 for adaptation capability definitions. draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval "1. Section 4.1.1.2 - Setting up virtual TE-links. We would like to understand why the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically. In terms of scalability, could a virtual TE-link (assuming it represents server (lower) layer resources) be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? It is not clear from the draft whether this is allowed or not but we think it is essential in developing a scalable solution. In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, the identifier would have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer." First of all, please note again that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. Advertising the virtual TE-link into the "client" network, which is under different administrative domain, is out of scope of this document. The above question may be separated into three sub-questions as follows; Q1-a) Why do the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically? A1-a) It would be possible to automatically discover all potential connections across the lower layer network and to advertise a full mesh of virtual TE-links. However, we believe that this scenario is unlikely to meet with the requirements of service providers who will want to apply their own operational policies. Such operational policies effectively install a management function (e.g., VNT Manager) between the analysis of the lower layer potential connections, and the advertisement of virtual TE-links. However, nothing precludes from a policy of discovering and advertising such a full mesh. Q1-b) Could a virtual TE-link be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? A1-b) In general, data link identifiers can be autogenerated and "discovered" through information exchange between adjacent nodes. TE-link identifiers can similarly be autogenerated, and exchanged and associated with data links. This, however, presupposes the existence of the data links when the TE-links are created. The virtual TE-link represents potential connectivity (as discussed for point 5, above), but does not have a server layer trail (i.e., a client layer data link) committed. The virtual TE-links must still be advertised so that they can be use in path computation. Virtual TE- link identifiers are assigned at both end points. They are logical identifiers and are not necessarily identical to any identifiers associated with the real physical interfaces. They may be picked from a local pool of identifiers at both end points and exchanged between the the end points. On the other hand, assigning the identifier associated with a real physical interface to the virtual TE-link is not precluded. Clearly configuration (manual or through an automated process such as the Virtual Network Topology Manager) may provide this information in this case. The use of LMP for exchange of information for virtual TE-links is for future study. Q1-c) In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, would the identifier have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer? A1-c) As described in A1-b), the identifier of the virtual TE-link could be associated with a real physical interface. Note, however, that many virtual TE-links could exist where there is the physical capacity for only one server layer tail at any time. It may be convenient to assign each virtual TE-link a different identifier. "2. Section 4.1.1.3 - Traffic disruption minimization during FA release. In case disruption is required in the server (lower) layer, we think there is also an option to signal to the adaptation points and let them re-establish the server (lower) layer as opposed to rely on the head-end LSRs in the client (upper) layer." Section 4.1.1.3 does not specify nor preclude any mechanism to deal with traffic disruption. In the context of the MRN/MLN, upper layer LSPs may be routed over FAs. For reasons outside the scope of these documents, an FA may need to be released or rerouted. This may have a disruptive effect on the LSPs using this FA in the sense that this would induce a route change of these upper layer LSPs. Only the head-end LSR of an (FA-)LSP is responsible for re-routing or releasing FA-LSPs. As such head-end LSRs ("adaptation points" as stated in the question) are responsible for rerouting/releasing FA-LSPs and head-end LSRs of the upper layer LSPs are responsible for rerouting the LSPs they control. The adaptation points can NOT take responsibility for rerouting upper layers LSPs over other (newly established or not) FAs if they are not head-end LSRs of the upper-layer LSPs but only intermediate LSRs for these LSPs The data link created in an upper layer by an FA LSP may be a protected data link (in the meaning of link level protection - see RFC 3471). This link level protection may be achieved by end-to-end protection of the FA LSP, or through any other LSP protection scheme including LSP restoration. This case seems to match what you have described, but note that the process of switching traffic (i.e. the nested LSP) from one FA LSP to another is likely to cause a small traffic hit in all but packet/frame technologies. We would like to thank you for your detailed enquiry into this topic, and hope that you feel that the discussion has been fruitful. 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------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7E695.8E11DF40-- From aussanai.oeinck@larobla.com Fri Aug 24 19:52:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOixW-0005Qp-24 for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 19:52:58 -0400 Received: from srbk-590fbfba.pool.einsundeins.de ([89.15.191.186] helo=srbk-590fc99d.pool.einsundeins.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOixV-0007Gs-92 for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 19:52:57 -0400 Received: from awf-juwi ([136.155.144.20] helo=awf-juwi) by srbk-590fc99d.pool.einsundeins.de ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1BtRiS-000SHF-AD for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:54:09 -0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:53:32 -0000 To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org From: "aussanai oeinck" Subject: recipiee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Hello ccamp-archive Ur girlriend will call you Mr. MegaPenis :-) http://paviboo.com/ From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Aug 24 21:07:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOk7z-000812-5y for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:07:51 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOk7y-0000fw-Jk for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:07:51 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IOjtM-000EG6-Qv for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 00:52:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [156.154.16.138] (helo=ns1.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IOjtI-000EFm-Fp for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 00:52:43 +0000 Received: from ietf.org (stiedprweb1.va.neustar.com [10.91.34.42]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED5726E5B; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 00:52:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mirror by ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IOjtH-00034n-7R; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:52:39 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Jones Cc: Kam Lam , Stephen Trowbridge , Ross Callon , David Ward , Scott Bradner , CCAMP Mailing List , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) Subject: New Liaison Statement, "In answer to your questions on GMPLS Calls" Reply-To: Adrian Farrel Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:52:39 -0400 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 Title: In answer to your questions on GMPLS Calls Submission Date: 2007-08-24 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=361 From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) To: ITU-T Q14/15(Greg Jones ) Cc: Kam Lam Stephen Trowbridge Ross Callon David Ward Scott Bradner CCAMP Mailing List Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Purpose: In response Body: The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your continued correspondence on GMPLS Calls. Please note that "Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in Support of Calls" has now been published as RFC 4974 available from http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4974.txt. In your liaison 'Reply to IETF CCAMP Liaison "GMPLS Calls"' produced at your June plenary in Geneva you raised two points. 1. "Call identifiers. Please note that G.7713.x series has a call identifier format. For G.7713.2, this is described in RFC3474 and has RSVP class num of 230." Thank you for this pointer. We are aware that a number of applications require different call identifier formats (or Long Form Call Identifiers in the language of RFC 4974). For this reason, RFC 4974 is careful to place no restrictions on the form of the call identifier, and we expect that ASON call identifiers can be encoded and carried in GMPLS Call messages. 2. "Specifying the destination of a call in ASON is done with a UNI Transport Resource identifier (G.8080 section 10.2). For G.7713.2, this is described in RFC3476 as a Transport Network Address (TNA) and has RSVP class num of 229. We suggest that an equivalent should be included in a future ASON applicability draft." Thank you, again. RFC 4974 (and, indeed, the whole of the GMPLS architecture) is predicated on the use of IP addresses, so that we expect Call Controllers, Connection Controllers, and connection end- points to be IP-addressable. However, we understand that Call Controllers and their associated applications may wish to exchange transparent information (such as TNAs) that is used in the context of those applications, for example to derive IP addressing information and to identify resources or applications. We may consider that the Call message (i.e. the Notify message) uses IP addressing to achieve delivery, but may carry transparent information on behalf of its client application (i.e. the Call Controller). Such information is not used in the propagation or delivery of the message, but may be used freely by the application for any purpose. WHen this is the case in IETF protocols, the payload is often presented as a fully transparent object. In some cases, however, commonly applicable (that is, applicable to multiple different applications) objects may be defined with encoding rules. We expect that a generic end-point identifier object will be defined for inclusion in GMPLS Call messages when the first application that needs them is documented. At the moment, it looks as though the first such application will be ASON, and we expect work to resume on the ASON applicability draft in the latter part of this year. Regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel Co-Chairs, IETF CCAMP Working Group Attachment(s): No document has been attached From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Aug 24 22:05:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOl1u-000438-17 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:05:38 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOl1t-0001rz-ET for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:05:37 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IOkoZ-000JA0-Bx for ccamp-data@psg.com; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:51:51 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.141] (helo=heisenberg.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IOkoW-000J9H-49 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:51:49 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.142] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IOkoU-00034m-U6 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:51:47 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([219.76.92.149] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 25 Aug 2007 02:51:44 +0100 Message-ID: <014801c7e6ba$719b30d0$3407a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Cc: , , "Scott Bradner" , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: Draft liaison #6 - ASON OSPF Loop-detection Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 02:51:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2007 01:51:45.0031 (UTC) FILETIME=[7DAF8970:01C7E6BA] X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [88.96.235.142] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 Hi, Moving along with the many liaisons we need to send to the ITU-T. This response is to https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/340/ which is part of an on-going correspondence about loop- detection in ASON routing. Can I have any comments quite soon? We need to get the response to them by the start of September. You can see all of the incoming and outgoing correspondence at www.olddog.co.uk/ccamp.htm Thanks, Adrian ==== To: ITU-T Q14/15 Subject: ASON Routing Loop Prevention Mechanism In response The IETF CCAMP working group thanks you for your continued interest in the loop-prevention mechanism contained in our OSPF-based solution to the routing requirements as described in RFC 4258. This liaison is in response to your liaison COM15-169-E issued from your June plenary. A separate liaison will report on the status and progress of our OSPF ASON solution. We disagree with your statement that the rationale we explained "does not utilize the hierarchical nature defined by ASON." Quite to the contrary, the solution addresses the issues introduced by the hierarchical routing nature of ASON while utilizing the benefits. At the same time, since the protocol mechanisms are extensions to OSPF, it is only natural that "the rationale provided takes into account the considerations of how OSPF traditionally operates." You are right to observe that other mechanisms could have been selected, and would also have been functional. This is often the case in protocol design. However, a choice has to be made, and unless there are technical reasons to suggest that the choice is wrong, there seems to be no particular motivation to make a change. You say: While we recognise it is possible to identify the propagation direction based on the Area ID of the source, it does require that all redistribution mechanisms in the network understand the relative location of source areas given the area hierarchy (i.e. are they up or down the hierarchy from the evaluation point). We cannot identify in the existing proposal any mechanism (i.e. new LSA format) defined to provide this information. We note that the requirement is not to know the direction of propagation of information, but to detect advertisement or routing loops. According to the strict hierarchical nature of ASON (as you describe in your liaison) the use of Area IDs is sufficient to detect advertisement loops. You suggest that the use of Area ID in the LSAs will inhibit re-configuration of AREA IDs. We do not believe that this is the case, and we will add text to the draft to describe the necessary processing for this important, but uncommon case. Please note that the scope of this work (including the loop-prevention mechanisms) is limited by the requirements expressed in RFC 4258. A separate liaison to you has requested a further review of RFC 4258. In the event that substantive modifications to the requirements are made as a result of your review, it will be necessary to consider updating the solutions work. Such a process of publication and revision is similar to the procedure applied within the ITU. Note also that the scope of this work (that is, of this current Internet-Draft) is extensions to the OSPF protocol. The CCAMP working group would welcome contributions in the form of Internet-Drafts from anyone who is interested in addressing the same problem space through the IS-IS protocol. Thank you for your continued support of this work. 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Remember me Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:16:04 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Aca6QQWSAHLF0K25CLB54O3N4RRFDN== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Message-ID: <01c7e6f8$90084f10$83a88350@aeqon> X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Hi sweety Have not heard from you for ages! Have you forgotten about me? Hope not! How are things going? I am stilll single and spring has come.. all of my friends are hanging out with their boyfriends and I am alone L Though we might get to know each other better and perhaps this Spring will be the last lonely spring for us? I have registered my profile at http://rus-girls-rus.cn/?idAff=67 - why don’t you come and see my new photos? And perhaps even email me.. Will be waiting… From cup@mynmail.com Sat Aug 25 06:12:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOscg-0004qj-2g for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 06:12:06 -0400 Received: from [125.187.32.171] (helo=m10.mailyes.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOsce-0003Yy-TC for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 06:12:05 -0400 Received: (qmail 10124 invoked by uid 0); 25 Aug 2007 19:10:09 +0900 Message-ID: <20070825101009.10123.qmail@m10.mailyes.net> To: ccamp-archive Subject: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCMX5KZzxUQTQwdyRLJUEbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJWMlcyU5ISohKjMkMzBOOTlUIzRHcSM2RnwbKEI=?= From: "Present¡¡Mail" Reply-to: delivery_rt Date: 2007-08-25 19:00:07 Content-type: text/plain; charset= ISO-2022-JP X-Mailer: GOOD Mailer 1.0 X-Priority: 1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Keywords: 20070824161411_cbur Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 20f22c03b5c66958bff5ef54fcda6e48 _/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B $B2F5Y$_%W%l%<%s%H%-%c%s%Z!<%s(B $B%W%l%<%s%H%^%,%8%s!*!*!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"""#!!(B8$B7n9f(B _/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B_/$B!1(B ------ $B!z$^$@4V$K9g$&!*2F5Y$_$N3$30N99T!z(B------ $B(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B!Z%b%k%G%#%V!&%Z%"N99T#4Gq#6F|$,Ev$?$k!*!*![(B http://u-lav.com/pre/ $B(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B?75,%*!<%W%K%s%0%-%c%s%Z!<%s$H$7$^$7$F#A>^3$30N99T%W%l%<%s%H(B $B"M(B http://u-lav.com/pre/$B!!!!(B $B#B>^$G$b%G%#%:%K!<%j%>!<%H%Z%"%A%1%C%H!\%[%F%k=IGq7t(B $B"M(B http://u-lav.com/pre/$B!!!!(B $B(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B!!!!!!!#!!!z!!!!!&!#!!!y!!!&!#!!!z!&!#!!!y!!!!!&!#!!!z!!!&!#!!!y!&!#!!!z!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!!y(,(/!!(.(,(/!!(.(,(/!!(.(,(/!!(.(,!z!!(.(,(/!!(.(,(/!!(.(,(/!!!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!(-%b(2(,(4%G(2(,(4%V(2(,(4%Q(2(,(49T(2(,(4%c(2(,(4%Z(2(,(4%s(-!!!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!(1(,(4%k(2(,(4%#(2(,(4%9(2(,(4N9(2(,(4%-(2(,(4%s(2(,(4!<(2(,!z!!!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!z(,(0!!(1(,(0!!(1(,(0!!(1(,(0!!(1(,!y!!(1(,(0!!(1(,(0!!!!!!!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!#!!!y!!!!!&!#!!!z!!!&!#!!!y!&!#!!!z!!!!!&!#!!!y!!!&!#!!!z!&!#!!!y!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Z3$30N99T![$N%A%c%s%9$,EPO?$9$k$@$1$G#G#E#T$G$-$k!!!!!!!!!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Z$=$NB>$b![#S#O#N#Y$N%O!<%I%G%#%9%/%l%3!<%@!<$d#P#S#P$b!!!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Bhttp://u-lav.com/pre/$B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#3#0#0#01_J,$N2;3Z%.%U%H%+!<%I$,%"%?%k!*!*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Bhttp://u-lav.com/pre/$B!!!!!!(B $B(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B!ZN99T0J30$K$b$$$m$$$mEv$?$k![(B $B(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $BN99T0J30$K$b#S#O#N#Y%O!<%I%G%#%9%/%l%3!<%@!<$d#S#O#N#Y!!#P#S#P$J$I(B $B:#OCBj$N>&IJ$b@9$j$@$/$5$s!*!*(B $B"M(B http://u-lav.com/pre/$B!!!!(B $B99$K2;3Z%+!<%I$d#Q#U#O%+!<%I$bEv$?$k%A%c%s%9(B $B"M(B http://u-lav.com/pre/$B!!!!(B $B!g(B=================================================================$B!g(B $B!z%-%c%s%Z!<%sBP>]>&IJ!z(B A$B!!%b%k%G%#%V(B4$BGq(B6$BF|(B B$B!!%G%#%:%K!<%j%>!<%H%Z%"%A%1%C%H(B C$B!!%=%K!<%O!<%I%G%#%9%/%*!<%G%#%*%l%3!<%@!<(B D$B!!(BSONY PSP E$B!!2;3Z%.%U%H%+!<%I(B5,000$B1_J,(B F$B!!(BQUO$B%+!<%I(B1,000$B1_J,(B $B>&IJ$Ol9g$,$4$6$$$^$9!#(B $B!g(B=================================================================$B!g(B $B"M(B http://u-lav.com/pre/$B!!!!(B --------------------------------------------------------------------- $B!!K\%a!<%k$K7G:\$7$F$$$kJ8>O!&2hA|$NL5CGE>:\$r6X$8$^$9!#(B $B!!5-;v$NCx:n8"$O3F>pJsDs6!2q Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOwJY-0004TA-MS; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:08:36 -0400 Received: from [195.98.71.97] (helo=patinainc.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOwJX-0006AX-0O; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:08:36 -0400 Received: from Vadim ([139.121.145.58]:30722 "HELO Vadim" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by 614762c3patinainc.com with ESMTP id 77935989837B4 (ORCPT ); Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:08:45 +0400 Message-ID: <001401c7e742$fa5daf50$0064734c@Vadim> From: Mathew Pollard To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org Subject: lien Clinically proven to increase pen -is size Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:08:45 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C7E742.FA5DAF50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2969 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2963 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C7E742.FA5DAF50 Content-Type: text/plain; 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We need to get the > response to them by the start of September. > > You can see all of the incoming and outgoing correspondence at > www.olddog.co.uk/ccamp.htm > > Thanks, > Adrian > > ==== There is no definition of any new mechanism or LSA in this Internet-Draft: the use of a new LSA or changes to the processing rules for existing LSAs would inhibit the integration of ASON routing developments within the IETF routing family and, while this may not be an objective of the ASON architecture, it is an objective of the IETF. You suggest that the use of Area ID in the LSAs will inhibit re-configuration of AREA IDs. We do not believe that this is the case, and we will add text to the draft to describe the necessary processing for this important, but uncommon case. Please note that the scope of this work (including the loop-prevention mechanisms) is limited by the requirements expressed in RFC 4258. A separate liaison to you has requested a further review of RFC 4258. 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Lesson - don't try to do real work in an airport when you haven't had any sleep for 24 hours :-( Cheers, Adrian === To: ITU-T Q14/15 Subject: ASON Routing Loop Prevention Mechanism In response The IETF CCAMP working group thanks you for your continued interest in the loop-prevention mechanism contained in our OSPF-based solution to the routing requirements as described in RFC 4258. This liaison is in response to your liaison COM15-169-E issued from your June plenary. A separate liaison will report on the status and progress of our OSPF ASON solution. We disagree with your statement that the rationale we explained "does not utilize the hierarchical nature defined by ASON." Quite to the contrary, the solution addresses the issues introduced by the hierarchical routing nature of ASON while utilizing the benefits. At the same time, since the protocol mechanisms are extensions to OSPF, it is only natural that "the rationale provided takes into account the considerations of how OSPF traditionally operates." You are right to observe that other mechanisms could have been selected, and would also have been functional. This is often the case in protocol design. However, a choice has to be made, and unless there are technical reasons to suggest that the choice is wrong, there seems to be no particular motivation to make a change. You say: While we recognise it is possible to identify the propagation direction based on the Area ID of the source, it does require that all redistribution mechanisms in the network understand the relative location of source areas given the area hierarchy (i.e. are they up or down the hierarchy from the evaluation point). We cannot identify in the existing proposal any mechanism (i.e. new LSA format) defined to provide this information. We note that the requirement is not to know the direction of propagation of information, but to detect advertisement or routing loops. According to the strict hierarchical nature of ASON (as you describe in your liaison) the use of Area IDs is sufficient to detect advertisement loops. There is no definition of any new mechanism or LSA in this Internet-Draft: the use of a new LSA or changes to the processing rules for existing LSAs would inhibit the integration of ASON routing developments within the IETF routing family and, while this may not be an objective of the ASON architecture, it is an objective of the IETF. You suggest that the use of Area ID in the LSAs will inhibit re-configuration of AREA IDs. We do not believe that this is the case, and we will add text to the draft to describe the necessary processing for this important, but uncommon case. Please note that the scope of this work (including the loop-prevention mechanisms) is limited by the requirements expressed in RFC 4258. A separate liaison to you has requested a further review of RFC 4258. In the event that substantive modifications to the requirements are made as a result of your review, it will be necessary to consider updating the solutions work. Such a process of publication and revision is similar to the procedure applied within the ITU. Note also that the scope of this work (that is, of this current Internet-Draft) is extensions to the OSPFv2 protocol. The CCAMP working group would welcome contributions in the form of Internet-Drafts from anyone who is interested in addressing the same problem space through the IS-IS protocol. Thank you for your continued support of this work. Regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 30 11:55:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQmMa-00085s-5d for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:55:20 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQmMZ-00057U-SA for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:55:20 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IQmE2-000JFb-S4 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:46:30 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [193.180.251.60] (helo=mailgw3.ericsson.se) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IQmDw-000JEs-9l for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:46:28 +0000 Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id CEA61207A4 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:46:21 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-af67dbb0000007e1-6e-46d6e64dab26 Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.121]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id BEBC72047E for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:46:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.7]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:46:21 +0200 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: gels vs. ccamp mailing list Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:46:21 +0200 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E9101FB483B@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: gels vs. ccamp mailing list Thread-Index: AcfrHOm8ZIJ9fKnjTSmiNd8HXFgang== From: "Attila Takacs (IJ/ETH)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2007 15:46:21.0472 (UTC) FILETIME=[E9A2CA00:01C7EB1C] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Hi Deborah and Adrian, an administrative question... Currently, there are two possibilities to carry on discussion on the gels work: the ccamp and the gels mailing lists. Now, that the work will officially put on the ccamp charter I think we should reiterate the discussion we had about the mailing lists. Specifically; should the gels list be used for all the discussion (including ccamp drafts on GMPLS extensions) or should all discussion go to the ccamp list...and maybe it is time to close the gels list? Thanks and best regards, Attila From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 30 12:12:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQmdB-0003cA-EN for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:12:29 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQmdA-0000AP-70 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:12:29 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IQmU5-000KWz-LL for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:03:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.140] (helo=pythagoras.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IQmU0-000KWa-56 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:03:01 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.142] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IQmTy-0007WN-US for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:02:59 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:02:58 +0100 Message-ID: <014f01c7eb1f$3272db10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Attila Takacs \(IJ/ETH\)" , References: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E9101FB483B@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> Subject: Re: gels vs. ccamp mailing list Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:02:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2007 16:02:58.0367 (UTC) FILETIME=[3BD4E4F0:01C7EB1F] X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [88.96.235.142] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Hi, I am thinking to close the GELS list as soon as we have an Ack for our charter change. Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Attila Takacs (IJ/ETH)" To: Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 4:46 PM Subject: gels vs. ccamp mailing list Hi Deborah and Adrian, an administrative question... Currently, there are two possibilities to carry on discussion on the gels work: the ccamp and the gels mailing lists. Now, that the work will officially put on the ccamp charter I think we should reiterate the discussion we had about the mailing lists. Specifically; should the gels list be used for all the discussion (including ccamp drafts on GMPLS extensions) or should all discussion go to the ccamp list...and maybe it is time to close the gels list? 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----ux773vvvsyceak4f533vmzrz87yhl1bg-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 30 13:03:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQnQi-0007K1-E4 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:03:40 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQnQh-0001ma-77 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:03:40 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IQnIP-000OsD-Cx for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:55:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [193.180.251.62] (helo=mailgw4.ericsson.se) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IQnIM-000Oqy-OS for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:55:04 +0000 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id EB18820159; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:55:00 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b1837bb0000007e1-67-46d6f6648e32 Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.121]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id CB0EA20101; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:55:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.7]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:55:00 +0200 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: GELS documents Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:55:00 +0200 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E9101FB48DF@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: GELS documents Thread-Index: AcfrJoDJ6V6tEZU2Qrmx/gD6sfW2DQ== From: "Attila Takacs (IJ/ETH)" To: Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2007 16:55:00.0455 (UTC) FILETIME=[80BDB770:01C7EB26] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Hi Adrian, Looking at the proposed new milestones for GELS, the set of candidate WG documents are foreseen for this October. As discussed at the meeting, I assume there will be, at least initially, three documents: a framework, an applicability, and the actual GMPLS specification. What is the status of these documents, I mean given the close date it would be good to know if editors are already assigned and who they are?=20 I'm interested to contribute. Given the long history of GELS :-), it would be good if we get the drafts out soon. Best regards, Attila From mccann@gapower.co.za Thu Aug 30 13:44:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQo3s-0001U7-Ko for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:44:08 -0400 Received: from [201.53.117.62] (helo=[201.53.117.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQo3r-000050-1t for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:44:07 -0400 Received: from notewinxp ([101.118.8.31] helo=notewinxp) by [201.53.117.62] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1bYCnp-000MIO-XD for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:44:30 -0300 Message-ID: <000301c7eb2d$5b25ad40$3e7535c9@notewinxp> From: "Jerrad mccann" To: Subject: 1trisha Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:44:03 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7EB14.35D9FBE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7EB14.35D9FBE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.honopple.com/ Mail to mccann Did you ever ask yourself is my penis big enough Micha broek ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7EB14.35D9FBE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7EB14.35D9FBE0-- From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 30 15:00:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQpGA-00023a-04 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:00:54 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQpG8-0004SS-JY for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:00:53 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IQp6j-0007p4-MB for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:51:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.142] (helo=rutherford.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IQp6g-0007og-P0 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:51:08 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.142] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by rutherford.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IQp6f-0002V2-LP for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:51:05 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:51:05 +0100 Message-ID: <01a101c7eb36$ad2d3190$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: References: <09a101c7dab4$f6cae910$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> Subject: Working Group last calls completed : MPLS/GMPLS interworking and migration Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:50:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2007 18:51:05.0332 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8219B40:01C7EB36] X-Originating-Rutherford-IP: [88.96.235.142] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Hi, These last calls completed while I was travelling. I have scanned the mail list and I didn't see any comments. I also received no comments privately. Maybe the drafts are in perfect shape. Maybe no-one had time to read them. Please can I get a feeling from the working group: Are these I-Ds ready to move forward as RFCs? "Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration" http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt "Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS Networks" http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:41 PM Subject: Working Group last call on MPLS/GMPLS interworking and migration > Hi, > . > Two working group drafts have reached the position where the authors > consider them ready for last call (actually, a whole bunch have arrived > there at the same time, but we want to dribble them through the last call > process). > > These two documents concern the operation of MPLS over GMPLS, and the > migration from MPLS to GMPLS. > > The "Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration" is (the rather poorly > named) > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt > > The "Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS > Networks" are in > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt > > The documents are both Informational. > > Please send your comments (preferably to the list) by the end of WG last > call which will be 12 noon GMT 24th August 2007. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Aug 30 15:30:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQpiR-0002jr-69 for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:30:07 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQpiP-0005G1-NS for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:30:07 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IQpWc-0009xU-D3 for ccamp-data@psg.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:17:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [62.23.212.27] (helo=smail5.alcatel.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IQpWY-0009ws-JH for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:17:52 +0000 Received: from FRVELSBHS04.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs04.ad2.ad.alcatel.com [155.132.6.76]) by smail5.alcatel.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/ICT) with ESMTP id l7UJD0QS006224; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:13:00 +0200 Received: from FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com ([155.132.6.56]) by FRVELSBHS04.ad2.ad.alcatel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:13:28 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Recharter - Last Chance Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:13:18 +0200 Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380011A3B24@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> In-Reply-To: <037d01c7dfe5$d2552a10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Recharter - Last Chance thread-index: Acff5hUL2wk+PfzRQDuXZkdsXw037ALUnH/Q References: <037d01c7dfe5$d2552a10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Adrian Farrel" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2007 19:13:28.0129 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8802B10:01C7EB39] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 155.132.188.13 Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 1ba0ec39a747b7612d6a8ae66d1a873c =20 adrian > --- > NEW > Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and=20 > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks > --- > NEW > May 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS=20 > source-controlled and=20 > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D is that actually realistic ? knowing that work at IEEE=20 started on March 2007 and expected to take a couple of cycles ? from the PAR=20 Expected Date of Submission for Initial Sponsor Ballot:=20 August 2010 Projected Completion Date for Submittal to=20 RevCom: February 2011 hence, assuming this work that started in March 2007 may be stabilized by mid-2008 - how to achieve that milestone? should it not be something like Dec. 2008. in case the work items are expected to be achieved in a presence of multiple steps like initially considered i=20 would suggest then start working on functional specs & specific specs that could be delivered once the IEEE=20 spec. further stabilizes. just tyring to prevent yet another milestone change in a couple of months -d.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:11 AM > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Recharter - Last Chance >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Following from the small comments received on the list, here=20 > is the modified=20 > charter update proposal. >=20 > This is your last chance to comment before we send it to the IESG for=20 > approval. >=20 > Adrian and Deborah >=20 > =3D=3D=3D >=20 > First paragraph >=20 > OLD > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining > a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, > ATM and Frame Relay switches, MPLS, GRE, in cooperation with the MPLS > WG. >=20 > NEW > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining > a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, > TDM switches, Ethernet switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, and > MPLS and GRE in cooperation with the MPLS WG. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D >=20 > New paragraph in the list of Scope bullets. > Suggest to place it after: > "- Definition of MIB modules and other OAM techniques relevant to the > protocols and extensions specified within the WG." > and before: > "CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks:" >=20 > - Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support source- > controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths for > Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with > responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It is expected that > the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE. Note that the > specification or modification of Ethernet data planes is out of > scope. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D >=20 > Final paragraph >=20 > OLD > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the > following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG > will also cooperate with the ITU-T. >=20 > NEW > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the > following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN, and PCE. The > WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D >=20 > Milestone revisions (see below for full revised milestone list) >=20 > OLD > Jan 2006 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > NEW > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > --- > OLD > Mar 2006 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > NEW > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > --- > OLD > Apr 2006 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB=20 > module to cover=20 > RSVP-TE signaling extensions > NEW > Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB=20 > module to cover=20 > RSVP-TE signaling extensions > --- > OLD > Jun 2006 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of=20 > inter-domain issues=20 > for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > NEW > Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of=20 > inter-domain issues=20 > for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > --- > OLD > Oct 2006 Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D=20 > for IESG review > NEW > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies=20 > I-D for IESG=20 > review > --- > OLD > Nov 2006 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > NEW > Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > --- > OLD > Dec 2006 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and=20 > Multi-Region Networks=20 > I-D for IESG review > NEW > Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and=20 > Multi-Region Networks=20 > I-D for IESG review > --- > OLD > Jan 2007 Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and=20 > solutions I-D=20 > for IESG review > NEW > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements=20 > I-D for IESG=20 > review > --- > OLD > Feb 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for=20 > MLN/MRN for IESG=20 > review > NEW > Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for=20 > MLN/MRN for IESG=20 > review > --- > OLD > Mar 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor=20 > and IESG review > NEW > Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor=20 > and IESG review > --- > OLD > Jun 2007 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > NEW > Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > --- > OLD > Aug 2007 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for=20 > IESG review > NEW > Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for=20 > IESG review > --- > OLD > Dec 2007 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling=20 > extensions for MIB=20 > doctor and IESG review > NEW > Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling=20 > extensions for MIB=20 > doctor and IESG review > --- > OLD > Dec 2007 Recharter or close Working Group > NEW > Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group > --- > NEW > Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and=20 > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks > --- > NEW > May 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS=20 > source-controlled and=20 > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Goals and Milestones (full revised milestone list) >=20 > Done Post strawman WG goals and charter > Done Identify and document a limited set of candidate=20 > solutions for=20 > signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control=20 > solutions to be=20 > considered are the existing GMPLS drafts. > Done Build appropriate design teams > Done Submit WG document defining path setup portions of=20 > common control=20 > plane protocol > Done Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol > Done Submit LMP MIB to IESG > Done Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG > Done Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG > Done Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG > Done Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol > Done Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling=20 > and routing > Done Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG > Done Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for=20 > IESG consideration=20 > of more detailed deliverables and determination of usefulness of=20 > continuation of WG > Done First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node=20 > Capabilities in ISIS=20 > and OSPF > Done First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh=20 > membership > Done Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review > Done Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node=20 > Capabilities in ISIS=20 > and OSPF > Done First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies > Done First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and=20 > Multi-Region=20 > Networks > Done First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for=20 > MLN/MRN > Done First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions > Done Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling=20 > I-D for IESG=20 > review > Done Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for=20 > IESG review > Done First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module > Done Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management=20 > I-D for IESG=20 > review > Done First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of=20 > inter-domain=20 > issues for disjoint and protected paths > Done Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in=20 > ISIS and OSPF for=20 > IESG review > Done Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review > Done First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and=20 > solutions > Done Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review > Done Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh=20 > membership for=20 > IESG review > Done Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability=20 > advice I-D for=20 > IESG review > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D=20 > for IESG review > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements=20 > I-D for IESG=20 > review > Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and=20 > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks > Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of=20 > inter-domain issues for=20 > disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and=20 > Multi-Region Networks=20 > I-D for IESG review > Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for=20 > MLN/MRN for IESG=20 > review > Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module=20 > to cover=20 > RSVP-TE signaling extensions > Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor=20 > and IESG review > Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review > Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling=20 > extensions for MIB=20 > doctor and IESG review > May 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS=20 > source-controlled and=20 > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review > Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From Greig@infoventures.net Thu Aug 30 15:58:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQq9y-0007Jt-FL for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:58:34 -0400 Received: from chello089078242039.chello.pl ([89.78.242.39]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQq9x-0003cD-Mq for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:58:34 -0400 Received: from jf ([194.153.195.68] helo=jf) by [89.78.242.39] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1FfXuo-000HPG-iW for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:58:50 +0200 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:58:39 +0200 To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org From: "Greig rozsival" Subject: 0shrove Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Mail to rozsival Which are the Best Penis Enlargement pills? 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------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7EBC6.06277690-- From RandallHindmarch@nightdriver.dk Fri Aug 31 05:08:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IR2Ur-0002QN-T7 for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 05:08:57 -0400 Received: from ajj246.internetdsl.tpnet.pl ([83.16.243.246]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IR2Uq-0006Ap-6k for ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 05:08:57 -0400 Received: by 10.75.101.27 with SMTP id yQchfekrOvoOf; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:08:54 +0200 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.205.216 with SMTP id hAlWZuWysMelfN.2678327406850; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:08:52 +0200 (GMT) Message-ID: <7126B100.AAE90BE9@nightdriver.dk> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:08:49 +0200 From: "Randall Hindmarch" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: sortamaa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Hello Hindmarch Massive gains that my girlfriend loves jackie lumley http://tongn1.com/ From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Aug 31 05:33:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IR2sf-00015f-Cq for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 05:33:33 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IR2se-0006if-1I for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 05:33:33 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IR2hu-0009M7-Jq for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:22:26 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [80.86.78.228] (helo=fw.testbed.se) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IR2hr-0009LZ-AQ for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:22:25 +0000 Received: from MailerDaemon by fw.testbed.se with local-bsmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IR2hp-0001tI-78 for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:22:21 +0200 Received: from gw.imc.kth.se ([193.10.152.67]:1493 helo=[172.16.2.206]) by fw.testbed.se with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IR2hk-0001sn-Rc; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:22:16 +0200 Message-ID: <46D7DDC6.8000205@pi.se> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:22:14 +0200 From: Loa Andersson Organization: Acreo AB User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: "Attila Takacs (IJ/ETH)" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org, gels Subject: Re: gels vs. ccamp mailing list References: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E9101FB483B@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> <014f01c7eb1f$3272db10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> In-Reply-To: <014f01c7eb1f$3272db10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-cff-SpamScore: 0(/) X-cff-SpamReport: ----- ----- 1.5 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) [SPF failed: Please see http://spf.pobox.com/why.html?sender=loa%40pi.se&ip=193.10.152.67&receiver=fw.testbed.se] -1.4 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP X-cff-LastScanner: footer Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Adrian, I tend to support this, but it begs two questions: - when will the charter update be ack'ed? - in the (unlikely) case where we don't get an ack for gels work the gels-list won't be needed anyhow, so; isn't the effect of the of your statement below that the gels-list is dead as of now? Especially since the on thing we are discussing at the moment is the charter update and this is on the ccamp list?? /Loa Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > I am thinking to close the GELS list as soon as we have an Ack for our > charter change. > > Adrian > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Attila Takacs (IJ/ETH)" > > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: gels vs. ccamp mailing list > > > Hi Deborah and Adrian, > > an administrative question... > > Currently, there are two possibilities to carry on discussion on the > gels work: the ccamp and the gels mailing lists. Now, that the work will > officially put on the ccamp charter I think we should reiterate the > discussion we had about the mailing lists. > > Specifically; should the gels list be used for all the discussion > (including ccamp drafts on GMPLS extensions) or should all discussion go > to the ccamp list...and maybe it is time to close the gels list? > > Thanks and best regards, > Attila > > > > > > -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.se This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. http://www.astaro.com From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Aug 31 07:12:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IR4Qg-0001W1-Ih for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:12:46 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IR4Qf-0000C6-9h for ccamp-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:12:46 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IR4Gn-000Eyg-Qw for ccamp-data@psg.com; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:02:33 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [212.23.3.27] (helo=doppler.zen.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IR4Gj-000Exr-Vx for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:02:31 +0000 Received: from [212.23.3.141] (helo=heisenberg.zen.co.uk) by doppler.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IR3dr-0001vh-Ua for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:22:21 +0000 Received: from [88.96.235.138] (helo=cortex.aria-networks.com) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IR3dq-00073F-TB for ccamp@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:22:19 +0000 Received: from your029b8cecfe ([81.140.15.32] RDNS failed) by cortex.aria-networks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:22:18 +0100 Message-ID: <01fd01c7ebb8$c539ae30$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Draft liaison #7 - VCAT Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:21:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Aug 2007 10:22:18.0536 (UTC) FILETIME=[CF27F280:01C7EBB8] X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [88.96.235.138] Sender: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 578c2c9d0cb01ffe6e1ca36540edd070 Hi CCAMP, Yet another (another) draft of a liaison to the ITU-T. This one is on the subject of VCAT and is in response to a received liaison https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/319/ My thanks to Greg for preparing most of this text, and my apologies for not editing it sooner. We need to get it out to the ITU-T in time for the Q14/15 interim meeting in September, so any comments would be appreciated sooner rather than later. Thanks, Adrian ===== To: ITU-T Q14/15 Subject: GMPLS Signaling for VCAT/LCAS Signalling For Action Deadline: 15th November 2007 The CCAMP Working Group thanks you for your liaison of April this year (COM15-LS3-E) and for your interest in our work to develop GMPLS signaling extensions for the control of VCAT within TDM networks. The latest version of this work can be found at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-02.txt We expect a revision relatively soon, so if the referenced link fails, please also check at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt Here are our responses to the questions in your liaison. 1. Would CCAMP consider generalizing the draft so that it could be applied to any Inverse Multiplexing scheme? For example, if generalized, the method could be used to establish H.244, ML-PPP, ATM inverse mux, or BONDING connections. It is certainly our intention that any protocol extensions that we develop should be easily extensible to other technologies. But at the same time we have seen no immediate interest from the community in applying GMPLS as a control plane for any of the technologies that you list. It would, of course, be a prerequisite of using GMPLS for such an inverse multiplexing scheme, that GMPLS was also used to build network connections (i.e. LSPs) for the specific technology. If you have a requirement to use GMPLS to control these technologies, we would be interest to hear from you. In the mean time, we note that the inverse multiplexing schemes that you list are packet/cell forms rather than circuit forms of inverse multiplexing and hence may have different configuration parameters than VCAT. 2. Does the I-D describe VCAT call signalling? The I-D uses GMPLS Calls (RFC 4974) to achieve VCAT group signaling. The GMPLS Call is used to coordinate the setup of multiple server connections (LSPs) used to form a VCAT group (a connection in the VCAT layer). 3. Does the I-D allow LSPs in a server layer to be set up without any prior knowledge of a possible VCAT layer, and then at a later point in time allow those LSPs to become available to a VCAT layer? When a network connection is established at the request of an operator or a management system, we have assumed that there is some motivation, and that the motivation is expressed in the call that coordinates the connection. In RFC 4974, the nature of the call can be changed (as a matter of call parameter exchange that is within the scope of the call controller function, but the details of which, except for the message exchange rules, are outside the scope of the signaling protocol) but the connections cannot be moved from one call to another. Thus, LSPs that are set up in association with a specific call can only be used as directed by the call controller with responsibility for that call. If a call controller decides to use the connections (LSPs) for VCAT one day and for something else another day, that is entirely within its remit. However, this assumes that the call controller can suitably instruct and coordinate the necessary adaptation functions at each end of the network connections. An implementation might find it more convenient to release the call (and the associated connections), before setting up a new call and a new set of connections. Note that we are considering mechanisms to allow LSPs to be moved between VCAT Groups according to the requirements of the network. Such schemes necessarily mean that there is not always a 1:1 relationship between calls and VCAT groups. However, our understanding of G.707 and the ability to move component trails (VCAT group members) between VCAT groups while the trail is in service is unclear and we would welcome clarification of the requirements before progressing this function further. 4. Does the I-D allow the association of a VCAT call to multiple server layer calls? This is not specifically addressed. There is no hierarchy of calls described in the draft. Instead, the draft provides for a single call that is used to coordinate all of the server layer connections that support the single VCAT service. In practice, this may not represent architectural purity, but we believe it is a protocol implementation simplification consistent with the way that VCAT is operated. We note that VCAT groups can only consist of a single server connection type and cannot be mixed, e.g., VC-3 and VC-4 components cannot both be in the same VCG. 5. Does release of a VCAT call automatically imply release of the server layer call(s)? This is not required by G.8080 as layers are assumed to be independent. As noted for point 4, the VCAT layer call is not specifically called out in the draft. You may consider that the draft provides a mechanism for handling the (single hop) VCAT call and the server layer call as a single item. We would be interested to hear from you the operational circumstances under which a single VCAT layer call might give rise to multiple server layer calls. The signaling of the release of a GMPLS Call is rejected if connections are still in place (per RFC 4974 section 6.6.4) which is consistent with the connections having been set up under the instructions of the call controller and in support of the call. Thus, operationally, the release of a call will require the release of the associated connections. At this point it may be worth clarifying that a VCAT layer connection is created under the control of a VCAT layer call. The VCAT connection may require server layer connections (indeed, this is always the case with VCAT) and those connections need to be associated and controlled by a call. it is this second type of call that we are we are describing in this draft. Thus, the release of a VCAT call would lead to the release of the VCAT connection. The network policy may determine whether to release the server layer call or not. If the server layer call is released, the server layer connections will also be released. 6. Is VCAT layer addressing assumed to be the same as that of the server layer? GMPLS only supports IP addressing. The link connections in the VCAT layer created by/from network connections in the server layer may be given different addresses from the addresses used to represent the endpoints in the server layer, or may use the same addresses. 7. Are the two VCAT layer Call Controllers assumed to have direct signalling connectivity? Yes, adjacent call controllers in any layer are assumed to be able to exchange call control messages without the intervention of any proxy, agent, or extra-layer entity. 8. If multiple client layers are using the same VCAT layer as their server layer, how can the VCAT layer call be identified for use in the client layer signalling? How is this problem any different from any other n:1 client/server relationship? Please supply details of why the fact that the server layer is a VCAT layer should make this scenario any different. Please also note that, as for point 5 above, the VCAT layer call is not what is being addressed in this draft. We are addressing the server layer call that coordinates the server layer network connections that are used as VCAT group members to construct a VCAT group that can be presented as a link connection in the VCAT layer. 9. Have you considered using the ASON call id [RFC3474] at all layers to achieve separate call control of the VCAT and server layers? The format of the call ID is deliberately out of scope for this work as we would not wish to control or enforce the applicability of this work in any one environment. However, RFC 4974 (as noted in a recent separate liaison from us on GMPLS Calls) allows any format call ID to be encoded in GMPLS calls. Thus, the ASON call id format described informationally in RFC 3474 can be supported and used in an ASON environment at the choice of the operator and/or the implementer of the call controller. Can you please confirm that the normative definition of the ASON call ID is in G.7713.2? Other Recommendations (such as G.7713.3) also appear to have call IDs defined, and we want to make sure that we can reference a single, protocol- independent definition of a call ID 10. In the ASON architecture [G.8080], it is not assumed that a single signalling protocol is used in all domains. Even in the case the same protocol is used in all domains, the RSVP session changes between domains. Could you explain how the Notify mechanism used for call control would work across multiple domains where the RSVP session changes? This question clearly has wider relevance than this VCAT draft and should be seen in the context of RFC 4974, and not in reference to this draft. We note that G.8080 makes no assumptions about connection signaling protocols in adjacent domains, but we believe that the architecture does assume an E-NNI reference point in association with one or more call controllers at such domain interfaces. The E-NNI call controllers are responsible for requesting the necessary network connections in each domain and, where the E-NNI is externalised, for requesting any inter-domain connections. Call messages are exchanged between adjacent call controllers and relate to the network connections established at the request of those call controllers. When two adjacent GMPLS domains support the same end-to-end network connection, we do not recommend that the session object be changed. Please clarify where in G.8080 there is any reference to RSVP sessions. There should be no such discussion of protocol implementations in an architecture document. We would welcome your opinions on these responses and the direction of our work. In your liaison you stated that you had the intention to review the draft further at your June meeting. But in the liaison from your June meeting (COM15-LS170-E) you say that you deferred this review pending further revisions of the I-D. This is quite reasonable, but we would nevertheless welcome any further high-level comments that you may have. We will notify you as this draft is updated. 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------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C7EC0E.3FBAC310-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:03:46 +0000 Message-ID: <01fd01c7ebb8$c539ae30$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Draft liaison #7 - VCAT Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:21:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi CCAMP, Yet another (another) draft of a liaison to the ITU-T. This one is on the subject of VCAT and is in response to a received liaison https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/319/ My thanks to Greg for preparing most of this text, and my apologies for not editing it sooner. We need to get it out to the ITU-T in time for the Q14/15 interim meeting in September, so any comments would be appreciated sooner rather than later. Thanks, Adrian ===== To: ITU-T Q14/15 Subject: GMPLS Signaling for VCAT/LCAS Signalling For Action Deadline: 15th November 2007 The CCAMP Working Group thanks you for your liaison of April this year (COM15-LS3-E) and for your interest in our work to develop GMPLS signaling extensions for the control of VCAT within TDM networks. The latest version of this work can be found at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-02.txt We expect a revision relatively soon, so if the referenced link fails, please also check at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt Here are our responses to the questions in your liaison. 1. Would CCAMP consider generalizing the draft so that it could be applied to any Inverse Multiplexing scheme? For example, if generalized, the method could be used to establish H.244, ML-PPP, ATM inverse mux, or BONDING connections. It is certainly our intention that any protocol extensions that we develop should be easily extensible to other technologies. But at the same time we have seen no immediate interest from the community in applying GMPLS as a control plane for any of the technologies that you list. It would, of course, be a prerequisite of using GMPLS for such an inverse multiplexing scheme, that GMPLS was also used to build network connections (i.e. LSPs) for the specific technology. If you have a requirement to use GMPLS to control these technologies, we would be interest to hear from you. In the mean time, we note that the inverse multiplexing schemes that you list are packet/cell forms rather than circuit forms of inverse multiplexing and hence may have different configuration parameters than VCAT. 2. Does the I-D describe VCAT call signalling? The I-D uses GMPLS Calls (RFC 4974) to achieve VCAT group signaling. The GMPLS Call is used to coordinate the setup of multiple server connections (LSPs) used to form a VCAT group (a connection in the VCAT layer). 3. Does the I-D allow LSPs in a server layer to be set up without any prior knowledge of a possible VCAT layer, and then at a later point in time allow those LSPs to become available to a VCAT layer? When a network connection is established at the request of an operator or a management system, we have assumed that there is some motivation, and that the motivation is expressed in the call that coordinates the connection. In RFC 4974, the nature of the call can be changed (as a matter of call parameter exchange that is within the scope of the call controller function, but the details of which, except for the message exchange rules, are outside the scope of the signaling protocol) but the connections cannot be moved from one call to another. Thus, LSPs that are set up in association with a specific call can only be used as directed by the call controller with responsibility for that call. If a call controller decides to use the connections (LSPs) for VCAT one day and for something else another day, that is entirely within its remit. However, this assumes that the call controller can suitably instruct and coordinate the necessary adaptation functions at each end of the network connections. An implementation might find it more convenient to release the call (and the associated connections), before setting up a new call and a new set of connections. Note that we are considering mechanisms to allow LSPs to be moved between VCAT Groups according to the requirements of the network. Such schemes necessarily mean that there is not always a 1:1 relationship between calls and VCAT groups. However, our understanding of G.707 and the ability to move component trails (VCAT group members) between VCAT groups while the trail is in service is unclear and we would welcome clarification of the requirements before progressing this function further. 4. Does the I-D allow the association of a VCAT call to multiple server layer calls? This is not specifically addressed. There is no hierarchy of calls described in the draft. Instead, the draft provides for a single call that is used to coordinate all of the server layer connections that support the single VCAT service. In practice, this may not represent architectural purity, but we believe it is a protocol implementation simplification consistent with the way that VCAT is operated. We note that VCAT groups can only consist of a single server connection type and cannot be mixed, e.g., VC-3 and VC-4 components cannot both be in the same VCG. 5. Does release of a VCAT call automatically imply release of the server layer call(s)? This is not required by G.8080 as layers are assumed to be independent. As noted for point 4, the VCAT layer call is not specifically called out in the draft. You may consider that the draft provides a mechanism for handling the (single hop) VCAT call and the server layer call as a single item. We would be interested to hear from you the operational circumstances under which a single VCAT layer call might give rise to multiple server layer calls. The signaling of the release of a GMPLS Call is rejected if connections are still in place (per RFC 4974 section 6.6.4) which is consistent with the connections having been set up under the instructions of the call controller and in support of the call. Thus, operationally, the release of a call will require the release of the associated connections. At this point it may be worth clarifying that a VCAT layer connection is created under the control of a VCAT layer call. The VCAT connection may require server layer connections (indeed, this is always the case with VCAT) and those connections need to be associated and controlled by a call. it is this second type of call that we are we are describing in this draft. Thus, the release of a VCAT call would lead to the release of the VCAT connection. The network policy may determine whether to release the server layer call or not. If the server layer call is released, the server layer connections will also be released. 6. Is VCAT layer addressing assumed to be the same as that of the server layer? GMPLS only supports IP addressing. The link connections in the VCAT layer created by/from network connections in the server layer may be given different addresses from the addresses used to represent the endpoints in the server layer, or may use the same addresses. 7. Are the two VCAT layer Call Controllers assumed to have direct signalling connectivity? Yes, adjacent call controllers in any layer are assumed to be able to exchange call control messages without the intervention of any proxy, agent, or extra-layer entity. 8. If multiple client layers are using the same VCAT layer as their server layer, how can the VCAT layer call be identified for use in the client layer signalling? How is this problem any different from any other n:1 client/server relationship? Please supply details of why the fact that the server layer is a VCAT layer should make this scenario any different. Please also note that, as for point 5 above, the VCAT layer call is not what is being addressed in this draft. We are addressing the server layer call that coordinates the server layer network connections that are used as VCAT group members to construct a VCAT group that can be presented as a link connection in the VCAT layer. 9. Have you considered using the ASON call id [RFC3474] at all layers to achieve separate call control of the VCAT and server layers? The format of the call ID is deliberately out of scope for this work as we would not wish to control or enforce the applicability of this work in any one environment. However, RFC 4974 (as noted in a recent separate liaison from us on GMPLS Calls) allows any format call ID to be encoded in GMPLS calls. Thus, the ASON call id format described informationally in RFC 3474 can be supported and used in an ASON environment at the choice of the operator and/or the implementer of the call controller. Can you please confirm that the normative definition of the ASON call ID is in G.7713.2? Other Recommendations (such as G.7713.3) also appear to have call IDs defined, and we want to make sure that we can reference a single, protocol- independent definition of a call ID 10. In the ASON architecture [G.8080], it is not assumed that a single signalling protocol is used in all domains. Even in the case the same protocol is used in all domains, the RSVP session changes between domains. Could you explain how the Notify mechanism used for call control would work across multiple domains where the RSVP session changes? This question clearly has wider relevance than this VCAT draft and should be seen in the context of RFC 4974, and not in reference to this draft. We note that G.8080 makes no assumptions about connection signaling protocols in adjacent domains, but we believe that the architecture does assume an E-NNI reference point in association with one or more call controllers at such domain interfaces. The E-NNI call controllers are responsible for requesting the necessary network connections in each domain and, where the E-NNI is externalised, for requesting any inter-domain connections. Call messages are exchanged between adjacent call controllers and relate to the network connections established at the request of those call controllers. When two adjacent GMPLS domains support the same end-to-end network connection, we do not recommend that the session object be changed. Please clarify where in G.8080 there is any reference to RSVP sessions. There should be no such discussion of protocol implementations in an architecture document. We would welcome your opinions on these responses and the direction of our work. In your liaison you stated that you had the intention to review the draft further at your June meeting. But in the liaison from your June meeting (COM15-LS170-E) you say that you deferred this review pending further revisions of the I-D. This is quite reasonable, but we would nevertheless welcome any further high-level comments that you may have. We will notify you as this draft is updated. Best regards, Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:24:37 +0000 Message-ID: <46D7DDC6.8000205@pi.se> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:22:14 +0200 From: Loa Andersson Organization: Acreo AB User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: "Attila Takacs (IJ/ETH)" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org, gels Subject: Re: gels vs. ccamp mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian, I tend to support this, but it begs two questions: - when will the charter update be ack'ed? - in the (unlikely) case where we don't get an ack for gels work the gels-list won't be needed anyhow, so; isn't the effect of the of your statement below that the gels-list is dead as of now? Especially since the on thing we are discussing at the moment is the charter update and this is on the ccamp list?? /Loa Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > I am thinking to close the GELS list as soon as we have an Ack for our > charter change. > > Adrian > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Attila Takacs (IJ/ETH)" > > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: gels vs. ccamp mailing list > > > Hi Deborah and Adrian, > > an administrative question... > > Currently, there are two possibilities to carry on discussion on the > gels work: the ccamp and the gels mailing lists. Now, that the work will > officially put on the ccamp charter I think we should reiterate the > discussion we had about the mailing lists. > > Specifically; should the gels list be used for all the discussion > (including ccamp drafts on GMPLS extensions) or should all discussion go > to the ccamp list...and maybe it is time to close the gels list? > > Thanks and best regards, > Attila > > > > > > -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.se This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. http://www.astaro.com Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:18:27 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Recharter - Last Chance Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:13:18 +0200 Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380011A3B24@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> Thread-Topic: Recharter - Last Chance thread-index: Acff5hUL2wk+PfzRQDuXZkdsXw037ALUnH/Q From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Adrian Farrel" , =20 adrian > --- > NEW > Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and=20 > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks > --- > NEW > May 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS=20 > source-controlled and=20 > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D is that actually realistic ? knowing that work at IEEE=20 started on March 2007 and expected to take a couple of cycles ? from the PAR=20 Expected Date of Submission for Initial Sponsor Ballot:=20 August 2010 Projected Completion Date for Submittal to=20 RevCom: February 2011 hence, assuming this work that started in March 2007 may be stabilized by mid-2008 - how to achieve that milestone? should it not be something like Dec. 2008. in case the work items are expected to be achieved in a presence of multiple steps like initially considered i=20 would suggest then start working on functional specs & specific specs that could be delivered once the IEEE=20 spec. further stabilizes. just tyring to prevent yet another milestone change in a couple of months -d.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:11 AM > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Recharter - Last Chance >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Following from the small comments received on the list, here=20 > is the modified=20 > charter update proposal. >=20 > This is your last chance to comment before we send it to the IESG for=20 > approval. >=20 > Adrian and Deborah >=20 > =3D=3D=3D >=20 > First paragraph >=20 > OLD > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining > a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, > ATM and Frame Relay switches, MPLS, GRE, in cooperation with the MPLS > WG. >=20 > NEW > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining > a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, > TDM switches, Ethernet switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, and > MPLS and GRE in cooperation with the MPLS WG. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D >=20 > New paragraph in the list of Scope bullets. > Suggest to place it after: > "- Definition of MIB modules and other OAM techniques relevant to the > protocols and extensions specified within the WG." > and before: > "CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks:" >=20 > - Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support source- > controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths for > Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with > responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It is expected that > the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE. Note that the > specification or modification of Ethernet data planes is out of > scope. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D >=20 > Final paragraph >=20 > OLD > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the > following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG > will also cooperate with the ITU-T. >=20 > NEW > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the > following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN, and PCE. The > WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D >=20 > Milestone revisions (see below for full revised milestone list) >=20 > OLD > Jan 2006 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > NEW > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > --- > OLD > Mar 2006 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > NEW > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > --- > OLD > Apr 2006 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB=20 > module to cover=20 > RSVP-TE signaling extensions > NEW > Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB=20 > module to cover=20 > RSVP-TE signaling extensions > --- > OLD > Jun 2006 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of=20 > inter-domain issues=20 > for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > NEW > Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of=20 > inter-domain issues=20 > for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > --- > OLD > Oct 2006 Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D=20 > for IESG review > NEW > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies=20 > I-D for IESG=20 > review > --- > OLD > Nov 2006 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > NEW > Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > --- > OLD > Dec 2006 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and=20 > Multi-Region Networks=20 > I-D for IESG review > NEW > Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and=20 > Multi-Region Networks=20 > I-D for IESG review > --- > OLD > Jan 2007 Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and=20 > solutions I-D=20 > for IESG review > NEW > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements=20 > I-D for IESG=20 > review > --- > OLD > Feb 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for=20 > MLN/MRN for IESG=20 > review > NEW > Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for=20 > MLN/MRN for IESG=20 > review > --- > OLD > Mar 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor=20 > and IESG review > NEW > Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor=20 > and IESG review > --- > OLD > Jun 2007 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > NEW > Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > --- > OLD > Aug 2007 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for=20 > IESG review > NEW > Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for=20 > IESG review > --- > OLD > Dec 2007 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling=20 > extensions for MIB=20 > doctor and IESG review > NEW > Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling=20 > extensions for MIB=20 > doctor and IESG review > --- > OLD > Dec 2007 Recharter or close Working Group > NEW > Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group > --- > NEW > Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and=20 > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks > --- > NEW > May 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS=20 > source-controlled and=20 > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Goals and Milestones (full revised milestone list) >=20 > Done Post strawman WG goals and charter > Done Identify and document a limited set of candidate=20 > solutions for=20 > signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control=20 > solutions to be=20 > considered are the existing GMPLS drafts. > Done Build appropriate design teams > Done Submit WG document defining path setup portions of=20 > common control=20 > plane protocol > Done Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol > Done Submit LMP MIB to IESG > Done Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG > Done Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG > Done Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG > Done Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol > Done Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling=20 > and routing > Done Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG > Done Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for=20 > IESG consideration=20 > of more detailed deliverables and determination of usefulness of=20 > continuation of WG > Done First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node=20 > Capabilities in ISIS=20 > and OSPF > Done First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh=20 > membership > Done Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review > Done Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node=20 > Capabilities in ISIS=20 > and OSPF > Done First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies > Done First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and=20 > Multi-Region=20 > Networks > Done First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for=20 > MLN/MRN > Done First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions > Done Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling=20 > I-D for IESG=20 > review > Done Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for=20 > IESG review > Done First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module > Done Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management=20 > I-D for IESG=20 > review > Done First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of=20 > inter-domain=20 > issues for disjoint and protected paths > Done Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in=20 > ISIS and OSPF for=20 > IESG review > Done Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review > Done First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and=20 > solutions > Done Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review > Done Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh=20 > membership for=20 > IESG review > Done Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability=20 > advice I-D for=20 > IESG review > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D=20 > for IESG review > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements=20 > I-D for IESG=20 > review > Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and=20 > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks > Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of=20 > inter-domain issues for=20 > disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and=20 > Multi-Region Networks=20 > I-D for IESG review > Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for=20 > MLN/MRN for IESG=20 > review > Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module=20 > to cover=20 > RSVP-TE signaling extensions > Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor=20 > and IESG review > Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review > Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling=20 > extensions for MIB=20 > doctor and IESG review > May 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS=20 > source-controlled and=20 > explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review > Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:53:08 +0000 Message-ID: <01a101c7eb36$ad2d3190$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Working Group last calls completed : MPLS/GMPLS interworking and migration Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:50:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, These last calls completed while I was travelling. I have scanned the mail list and I didn't see any comments. I also received no comments privately. Maybe the drafts are in perfect shape. Maybe no-one had time to read them. Please can I get a feeling from the working group: Are these I-Ds ready to move forward as RFCs? "Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration" http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt "Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS Networks" http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:41 PM Subject: Working Group last call on MPLS/GMPLS interworking and migration > Hi, > . > Two working group drafts have reached the position where the authors > consider them ready for last call (actually, a whole bunch have arrived > there at the same time, but we want to dribble them through the last call > process). > > These two documents concern the operation of MPLS over GMPLS, and the > migration from MPLS to GMPLS. > > The "Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration" is (the rather poorly > named) > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt > > The "Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS > Networks" are in > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt > > The documents are both Informational. > > Please send your comments (preferably to the list) by the end of WG last > call which will be 12 noon GMT 24th August 2007. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:56:04 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: GELS documents Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:55:00 +0200 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E9101FB48DF@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> Thread-Topic: GELS documents Thread-Index: AcfrJoDJ6V6tEZU2Qrmx/gD6sfW2DQ== From: "Attila Takacs (IJ/ETH)" To: Cc: Hi Adrian, Looking at the proposed new milestones for GELS, the set of candidate WG documents are foreseen for this October. As discussed at the meeting, I assume there will be, at least initially, three documents: a framework, an applicability, and the actual GMPLS specification. What is the status of these documents, I mean given the close date it would be good to know if editors are already assigned and who they are?=20 I'm interested to contribute. Given the long history of GELS :-), it would be good if we get the drafts out soon. Best regards, Attila Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:04:02 +0000 Message-ID: <014f01c7eb1f$3272db10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Attila Takacs \(IJ/ETH\)" , Subject: Re: gels vs. ccamp mailing list Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:02:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I am thinking to close the GELS list as soon as we have an Ack for our charter change. Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Attila Takacs (IJ/ETH)" To: Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 4:46 PM Subject: gels vs. ccamp mailing list Hi Deborah and Adrian, an administrative question... Currently, there are two possibilities to carry on discussion on the gels work: the ccamp and the gels mailing lists. Now, that the work will officially put on the ccamp charter I think we should reiterate the discussion we had about the mailing lists. Specifically; should the gels list be used for all the discussion (including ccamp drafts on GMPLS extensions) or should all discussion go to the ccamp list...and maybe it is time to close the gels list? Thanks and best regards, Attila Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:47:15 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: gels vs. ccamp mailing list Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:46:21 +0200 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E9101FB483B@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> Thread-Topic: gels vs. ccamp mailing list Thread-Index: AcfrHOm8ZIJ9fKnjTSmiNd8HXFgang== From: "Attila Takacs (IJ/ETH)" To: Hi Deborah and Adrian, an administrative question... Currently, there are two possibilities to carry on discussion on the gels work: the ccamp and the gels mailing lists. Now, that the work will officially put on the ccamp charter I think we should reiterate the discussion we had about the mailing lists. Specifically; should the gels list be used for all the discussion (including ccamp drafts on GMPLS extensions) or should all discussion go to the ccamp list...and maybe it is time to close the gels list? Thanks and best regards, Attila Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:58:32 +0000 Message-ID: <00f201c7eb15$d4c6fe00$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Cc: , , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: Re: Updated: Draft liaison #6 - ASON OSPF Loop-detection Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:55:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Corrected update attached. Lesson - don't try to do real work in an airport when you haven't had any sleep for 24 hours :-( Cheers, Adrian === To: ITU-T Q14/15 Subject: ASON Routing Loop Prevention Mechanism In response The IETF CCAMP working group thanks you for your continued interest in the loop-prevention mechanism contained in our OSPF-based solution to the routing requirements as described in RFC 4258. This liaison is in response to your liaison COM15-169-E issued from your June plenary. A separate liaison will report on the status and progress of our OSPF ASON solution. We disagree with your statement that the rationale we explained "does not utilize the hierarchical nature defined by ASON." Quite to the contrary, the solution addresses the issues introduced by the hierarchical routing nature of ASON while utilizing the benefits. At the same time, since the protocol mechanisms are extensions to OSPF, it is only natural that "the rationale provided takes into account the considerations of how OSPF traditionally operates." You are right to observe that other mechanisms could have been selected, and would also have been functional. This is often the case in protocol design. However, a choice has to be made, and unless there are technical reasons to suggest that the choice is wrong, there seems to be no particular motivation to make a change. You say: While we recognise it is possible to identify the propagation direction based on the Area ID of the source, it does require that all redistribution mechanisms in the network understand the relative location of source areas given the area hierarchy (i.e. are they up or down the hierarchy from the evaluation point). We cannot identify in the existing proposal any mechanism (i.e. new LSA format) defined to provide this information. We note that the requirement is not to know the direction of propagation of information, but to detect advertisement or routing loops. According to the strict hierarchical nature of ASON (as you describe in your liaison) the use of Area IDs is sufficient to detect advertisement loops. There is no definition of any new mechanism or LSA in this Internet-Draft: the use of a new LSA or changes to the processing rules for existing LSAs would inhibit the integration of ASON routing developments within the IETF routing family and, while this may not be an objective of the ASON architecture, it is an objective of the IETF. You suggest that the use of Area ID in the LSAs will inhibit re-configuration of AREA IDs. We do not believe that this is the case, and we will add text to the draft to describe the necessary processing for this important, but uncommon case. Please note that the scope of this work (including the loop-prevention mechanisms) is limited by the requirements expressed in RFC 4258. A separate liaison to you has requested a further review of RFC 4258. In the event that substantive modifications to the requirements are made as a result of your review, it will be necessary to consider updating the solutions work. Such a process of publication and revision is similar to the procedure applied within the ITU. Note also that the scope of this work (that is, of this current Internet-Draft) is extensions to the OSPFv2 protocol. The CCAMP working group would welcome contributions in the form of Internet-Drafts from anyone who is interested in addressing the same problem space through the IS-IS protocol. Thank you for your continued support of this work. Regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:39:48 +0000 Message-ID: <042701c7e94e$9cfac6f0$3407a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Cc: , , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: Updated: Draft liaison #6 - ASON OSPF Loop-detection Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:21:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I got a couple of comments that lead to some minor wording changes > Moving along with the many liaisons we need to send to the > ITU-T. > > This response is to https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/340/ > which is part of an on-going correspondence about loop- > detection in ASON routing. > > Can I have any comments quite soon? We need to get the > response to them by the start of September. > > You can see all of the incoming and outgoing correspondence at > www.olddog.co.uk/ccamp.htm > > Thanks, > Adrian > > ==== There is no definition of any new mechanism or LSA in this Internet-Draft: the use of a new LSA or changes to the processing rules for existing LSAs would inhibit the integration of ASON routing developments within the IETF routing family and, while this may not be an objective of the ASON architecture, it is an objective of the IETF. You suggest that the use of Area ID in the LSAs will inhibit re-configuration of AREA IDs. We do not believe that this is the case, and we will add text to the draft to describe the necessary processing for this important, but uncommon case. Please note that the scope of this work (including the loop-prevention mechanisms) is limited by the requirements expressed in RFC 4258. A separate liaison to you has requested a further review of RFC 4258. In the event that substantive modifications to the requirements are made as a result of your review, it will be necessary to consider updating the solutions work. Such a process of publication and revision is similar to the procedure applied within the ITU. Note also that the scope of this work (that is, of this current Internet-Draft) is extensions to the OSPFv2 protocol. The CCAMP working group would welcome contributions in the form of Internet-Drafts from anyone who is interested in addressing the same problem space through the IS-IS protocol. Thank you for your continued support of this work. Regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:18:05 +0000 From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Cc: Internet Architecture Board , RFC Editor , ccamp mailing list , ccamp chair Subject: Protocol Action: 'Label Switched Path Stitching with Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering (GMPLS TE)' to Proposed Standard Message-Id: Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:48:11 -0400 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Label Switched Path Stitching with Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering (GMPLS TE) ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching-06.txt Technical Summary In certain scenarios, there may be a need to combine together several Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) such that a single end-to-end (e2e) LSP is realized and all traffic from one constituent LSP is switched onto the next LSP. We will refer to this as "LSP stitching", the key requirement being that a constituent LSP not be allocated to more than one e2e LSP. The constituent LSPs will be referred to as "LSP segments" (S-LSPs). This document describes extensions to the existing GMPLS signaling protocol (RSVP-TE) to establish e2e LSPs created from from S-LSPs, and describes how the LSPs can be managed using the GMPLS signaling and routing protocols. Working Group Summary no dissent reported. Protocol Quality Ross Callon has reviewed this for the IESG. Note to RFC Editor Arthi Ayyangar's affiliation should be updated to be: Arthi Ayyangar Juniper Networks 1194 N Mathilda Avenue Sunnyvale, CA 94089 email: arthi@juniper.net Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:52:34 +0000 Message-ID: <014801c7e6ba$719b30d0$3407a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Cc: , , "Scott Bradner" , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: Draft liaison #6 - ASON OSPF Loop-detection Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 02:51:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Moving along with the many liaisons we need to send to the ITU-T. This response is to https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/340/ which is part of an on-going correspondence about loop- detection in ASON routing. Can I have any comments quite soon? We need to get the response to them by the start of September. You can see all of the incoming and outgoing correspondence at www.olddog.co.uk/ccamp.htm Thanks, Adrian ==== To: ITU-T Q14/15 Subject: ASON Routing Loop Prevention Mechanism In response The IETF CCAMP working group thanks you for your continued interest in the loop-prevention mechanism contained in our OSPF-based solution to the routing requirements as described in RFC 4258. This liaison is in response to your liaison COM15-169-E issued from your June plenary. A separate liaison will report on the status and progress of our OSPF ASON solution. We disagree with your statement that the rationale we explained "does not utilize the hierarchical nature defined by ASON." Quite to the contrary, the solution addresses the issues introduced by the hierarchical routing nature of ASON while utilizing the benefits. At the same time, since the protocol mechanisms are extensions to OSPF, it is only natural that "the rationale provided takes into account the considerations of how OSPF traditionally operates." You are right to observe that other mechanisms could have been selected, and would also have been functional. This is often the case in protocol design. However, a choice has to be made, and unless there are technical reasons to suggest that the choice is wrong, there seems to be no particular motivation to make a change. You say: While we recognise it is possible to identify the propagation direction based on the Area ID of the source, it does require that all redistribution mechanisms in the network understand the relative location of source areas given the area hierarchy (i.e. are they up or down the hierarchy from the evaluation point). We cannot identify in the existing proposal any mechanism (i.e. new LSA format) defined to provide this information. We note that the requirement is not to know the direction of propagation of information, but to detect advertisement or routing loops. According to the strict hierarchical nature of ASON (as you describe in your liaison) the use of Area IDs is sufficient to detect advertisement loops. You suggest that the use of Area ID in the LSAs will inhibit re-configuration of AREA IDs. We do not believe that this is the case, and we will add text to the draft to describe the necessary processing for this important, but uncommon case. Please note that the scope of this work (including the loop-prevention mechanisms) is limited by the requirements expressed in RFC 4258. A separate liaison to you has requested a further review of RFC 4258. In the event that substantive modifications to the requirements are made as a result of your review, it will be necessary to consider updating the solutions work. Such a process of publication and revision is similar to the procedure applied within the ITU. Note also that the scope of this work (that is, of this current Internet-Draft) is extensions to the OSPF protocol. The CCAMP working group would welcome contributions in the form of Internet-Drafts from anyone who is interested in addressing the same problem space through the IS-IS protocol. Thank you for your continued support of this work. Regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 00:55:20 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Jones Cc: Kam Lam , Stephen Trowbridge , Ross Callon , David Ward , Scott Bradner , CCAMP Mailing List , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) Subject: New Liaison Statement, "In answer to your questions on GMPLS Calls" Reply-To: Adrian Farrel Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:52:39 -0400 Title: In answer to your questions on GMPLS Calls Submission Date: 2007-08-24 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=361 From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) To: ITU-T Q14/15(Greg Jones ) Cc: Kam Lam Stephen Trowbridge Ross Callon David Ward Scott Bradner CCAMP Mailing List Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Purpose: In response Body: The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your continued correspondence on GMPLS Calls. Please note that "Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in Support of Calls" has now been published as RFC 4974 available from http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4974.txt. In your liaison 'Reply to IETF CCAMP Liaison "GMPLS Calls"' produced at your June plenary in Geneva you raised two points. 1. "Call identifiers. Please note that G.7713.x series has a call identifier format. For G.7713.2, this is described in RFC3474 and has RSVP class num of 230." Thank you for this pointer. We are aware that a number of applications require different call identifier formats (or Long Form Call Identifiers in the language of RFC 4974). For this reason, RFC 4974 is careful to place no restrictions on the form of the call identifier, and we expect that ASON call identifiers can be encoded and carried in GMPLS Call messages. 2. "Specifying the destination of a call in ASON is done with a UNI Transport Resource identifier (G.8080 section 10.2). For G.7713.2, this is described in RFC3476 as a Transport Network Address (TNA) and has RSVP class num of 229. We suggest that an equivalent should be included in a future ASON applicability draft." Thank you, again. RFC 4974 (and, indeed, the whole of the GMPLS architecture) is predicated on the use of IP addresses, so that we expect Call Controllers, Connection Controllers, and connection end- points to be IP-addressable. However, we understand that Call Controllers and their associated applications may wish to exchange transparent information (such as TNAs) that is used in the context of those applications, for example to derive IP addressing information and to identify resources or applications. We may consider that the Call message (i.e. the Notify message) uses IP addressing to achieve delivery, but may carry transparent information on behalf of its client application (i.e. the Call Controller). Such information is not used in the propagation or delivery of the message, but may be used freely by the application for any purpose. WHen this is the case in IETF protocols, the payload is often presented as a fully transparent object. In some cases, however, commonly applicable (that is, applicable to multiple different applications) objects may be defined with encoding rules. We expect that a generic end-point identifier object will be defined for inclusion in GMPLS Call messages when the first application that needs them is documented. At the moment, it looks as though the first such application will be ASON, and we expect work to resume on the ASON applicability draft in the latter part of this year. Regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel Co-Chairs, IETF CCAMP Working Group Attachment(s): No document has been attached Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:17:31 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Jones Cc: Kam Lam , Stephen Trowbridge , Ross Callon , David Ward , Scott Bradner , CCAMP Mailing List , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networking" Reply-To: Adrian Farrel Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:16:50 -0400 Title: Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networking Submission Date: 2007-08-22 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=360 Please reply by 2007-09-20 From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) To: ITU-T Q14/15(Greg Jones ) Cc: Kam Lam Stephen Trowbridge Ross Callon David Ward Scott Bradner CCAMP Mailing List Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Purpose: For action Body: The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your liaison titled "Follow up Liaison Statement to IETF CCAMP on Multi-Layer Networking" generated from your May 2007 interim meeting. This communication provides answers and explanations in response to the comments and questions that your liaison raised. As previously indicated, the CCAMP working group is ready to hold a working group last call on these two Internet-Drafts. However, in view of your comments and interest in this work we are delaying this last call to allow you to consider our responses and to provide further comments during your September interim meeting. Any additional comments that you supply will be treated as working group last call comments and handled accordingly. Working Group last call will complete on 21 September 2007 at 12 noon GMT. Please ensure that any comments are received by the IETF before that time. The latest copies of the drafts concerned can be found at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt and http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.txt draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs "1. General - Does this draft apply only to single service provider or do you envision it applying when there are multiple service providers? The ASON model (G.8080) allows for many different configurations of multilayer networks ranging from a single provider administering all layers and regions to a different provider per layer or region to several providers per layer or region. If two layers are under different administrative domains because they belong to two different providers, the amount of information that can be shared between the two domains is more limited than in the case where a single provider network provides resources at all layers." A customer network may be provided on top of the GMPLS-based multi-region/multi-layer network. It is indeed a strong motivator for the deployment of multi-region/multi-layer networks as described in Section 3.2 of the draft. This draft is, however, scoped to the assumption that the control plane and the data plane are under the responsibility of a single service provider and so constitute a single administrative domain. The MRN/MLN suite of documents makes no assumptions concerning the interfaces with other domains (e.g. UNI, E-NNI). In particular, the specific problem examined within the CCAMP MRN/MLN work is the integration of multiple network layers (that may be from different regions) within the same administrative domain. Requirements for multiple network layers under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. It should be noted that the term region used in the MRN/MLN suite of documents is as per IETF definition (see RFC4206). The statement has been added to Section 1 to articulate that this draft is scoped to the requirements for multi-layer networks under a single control plane and that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. But note also that Secitons 1 and 3.3 of this document reference RFC4726 (A Framework for Inter-Domain Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering) for interconnection of MRN/MLN TE domains. Another RFC of possible interest on multilayer-multidomain discusion is RFC4655 (PCE Architecture). "2. Section 3 - There is an example of several layers of a TDM region. The addition of a VCAT layer example would be more complete. For example, VC-4-7v." Thank you for this suggestion. We have integrated this example into the I-D. "3. Section 3.1 - The last paragraph mentions discontinuity when crossing a region boundary. We would like to point out that the ASON model does not have control plane discontinuity when crossing a region boundary as there are call controllers at each layer. Call controllers at both ends of adaptation into a server (lower) layer communicate with each other." There may be some misunderstanding of the term "discontinuity". In the context of this section of the draft, "discontinuity" indicates that it may not be possible to simply forward the signaling message (i.e. RSVP-TE Path message) from a node in one layer to a node in the next layer (even when stitching or 1:1 multiplexing is used) because there is a necessary change in some of the signaling objects (for example, the representation of bandwidth) at region boundaries. We may solve the discontinuity issue in a method similar to that of ASON by using triggered signaling or any of the other mechanisms described in this document. To help clear up the misunderstanding, the last paragraph of Section 3.1 will be rephrased. "4. Section 5.3 - Scalability problems can be minimized by the use of TED per region in case they are under separate administration or for scalability reason." It is correct to note that the use of a separate TED per region can improve the scalability. However, part of the objective of the MRN/MLN work is to allow full visibility from each network node into all participating layers/regions. Splitting the TED will not reduce the amount of information stored or flooded within the network. Indeed, as multiple switching capabilities can be advertised in a single TE-link advertisement, the total number of entries in a TED should not differ much from a single layer network (although each entry may be a little larger). Furthermore, the number of TE-link advertisements should not differ much from a single layer network (although each advertisement may be slightly larger), thus not putting additional strain on the routing protocol flooding process. No scalability problems have been identified. Section 5.3 will be further clarified. "5. Section 5.8.2 - Virtual TE-links - We can think of two different models and are not sure which one is implied in this document. The first one is that a virtual TE-link represents server (lower) layer potential connectivity. The second one is that a virtual TE-link represents client (upper) layer potential connectivity. The first one requires knowledge of the adaptation capabilities by the client (upper) layer. The second does not require any knowledge of the adaptation capabilities or even the existence of the server (lower) layer and should also be a valid configuration. The second option may be required, for example, when the different layers are administered by different entities." The virtual TE-link represents potential client layer connectivity that may be achieved through potential server layer connections. The client layer connectivity is potential because the TE-link does not actually exist (event though it is treated in the client layer exactly as though it does exist). The server layer connections are potential because the LSPs necessary to support the TE-link have not been set up. It may be helpful to recap some terminology. A TE-link is (as discussed in the GMPLS/ASON lexicography set out in RFC 4397) a logical routing element that allows path selection to be decoupled from resource assignment. Thus a TE-link is associated with one or more data links. This is equivalent to an SNPP link. A TE-link in one layer may, of course, be achieved by one or more LSPs in a lower layer. That is, an LSP in one layer may form a data link in an upper layer. A virtual TE-link (again referencing RFC 4397) is a TE-link associated with zero data links. It is the potential for a TE- link, that may be used in path computation on the assumption that, if it is used, an attempt will be made dynamically to create the necessary data link(s). That is, to signal an LSP in a lower layer, to designate the LSP as a data link in the upper layer, and to assign the data link to the TE-link. Thus, the virtual TE-link is dynamically converted into an actual TE-link. Please note that one of the comments we will be considering during working group last call is the suggestion to change the name "virtual TE link" to "potential TE link". Advertisement of the virtual TE-link is dependent (just as with a real TE-link) on the adaptation capabilities at the end points. As far as client layer network is concerned, there is no difference between virtual and real TE-links. In both cases the TE-link is connectivity in the client layer, but (clearly) with a virtual TE-link, although the connectivity is advertised as if it is real, it is only potential. The principal difference between a real TE-link and a virtual TE-link is that the server layer network resources are not tied up when the virtual TE-link is not in use, and that the signaling process of the client layer LSP might fail if the virtual TE-link cannot be realized (i.e., if the server layer LSPs cannot be set up). "6. Section 4.2 - The last paragraph mentions that TE-link advertisements may need to provide information about the node's internal adaptation capabilities in order to perform layer border node functions. It might be worth clarifying the instances where this is required versus not required. For example, if virtual TE-links are used to represent the client (upper) layer connectivity, it is not necessary to advertise internal adaptation capabilities." There is no difference with respect to real or virtual TE- links in this regard, and all TE-links (virtual or otherwise) must be considered with regard to their switching types and the adaptation capabilities of their end points. The adaptation capability, enables a node to discriminate the remote nodes (and thus allows their selection during a multi- region path computation) with respect to their adaptation capability. i.e., their capability to terminate LSPs at a given region. Please see also RFC4397 for adaptation capability definitions. draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval "1. Section 4.1.1.2 - Setting up virtual TE-links. We would like to understand why the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically. In terms of scalability, could a virtual TE-link (assuming it represents server (lower) layer resources) be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? It is not clear from the draft whether this is allowed or not but we think it is essential in developing a scalable solution. In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, the identifier would have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer." First of all, please note again that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. Advertising the virtual TE-link into the "client" network, which is under different administrative domain, is out of scope of this document. The above question may be separated into three sub-questions as follows; Q1-a) Why do the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically? A1-a) It would be possible to automatically discover all potential connections across the lower layer network and to advertise a full mesh of virtual TE-links. However, we believe that this scenario is unlikely to meet with the requirements of service providers who will want to apply their own operational policies. Such operational policies effectively install a management function (e.g., VNT Manager) between the analysis of the lower layer potential connections, and the advertisement of virtual TE-links. However, nothing precludes from a policy of discovering and advertising such a full mesh. Q1-b) Could a virtual TE-link be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? A1-b) In general, data link identifiers can be autogenerated and "discovered" through information exchange between adjacent nodes. TE-link identifiers can similarly be autogenerated, and exchanged and associated with data links. This, however, presupposes the existence of the data links when the TE-links are created. The virtual TE-link represents potential connectivity (as discussed for point 5, above), but does not have a server layer trail (i.e., a client layer data link) committed. The virtual TE-links must still be advertised so that they can be use in path computation. Virtual TE- link identifiers are assigned at both end points. They are logical identifiers and are not necessarily identical to any identifiers associated with the real physical interfaces. They may be picked from a local pool of identifiers at both end points and exchanged between the the end points. On the other hand, assigning the identifier associated with a real physical interface to the virtual TE-link is not precluded. Clearly configuration (manual or through an automated process such as the Virtual Network Topology Manager) may provide this information in this case. The use of LMP for exchange of information for virtual TE-links is for future study. Q1-c) In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, would the identifier have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer? A1-c) As described in A1-b), the identifier of the virtual TE-link could be associated with a real physical interface. Note, however, that many virtual TE-links could exist where there is the physical capacity for only one server layer tail at any time. It may be convenient to assign each virtual TE-link a different identifier. "2. Section 4.1.1.3 - Traffic disruption minimization during FA release. In case disruption is required in the server (lower) layer, we think there is also an option to signal to the adaptation points and let them re-establish the server (lower) layer as opposed to rely on the head-end LSRs in the client (upper) layer." Section 4.1.1.3 does not specify nor preclude any mechanism to deal with traffic disruption. In the context of the MRN/MLN, upper layer LSPs may be routed over FAs. For reasons outside the scope of these documents, an FA may need to be released or rerouted. This may have a disruptive effect on the LSPs using this FA in the sense that this would induce a route change of these upper layer LSPs. Only the head-end LSR of an (FA-)LSP is responsible for re-routing or releasing FA-LSPs. As such head-end LSRs ("adaptation points" as stated in the question) are responsible for rerouting/releasing FA-LSPs and head-end LSRs of the upper layer LSPs are responsible for rerouting the LSPs they control. The adaptation points can NOT take responsibility for rerouting upper layers LSPs over other (newly established or not) FAs if they are not head-end LSRs of the upper-layer LSPs but only intermediate LSRs for these LSPs The data link created in an upper layer by an FA LSP may be a protected data link (in the meaning of link level protection - see RFC 3471). This link level protection may be achieved by end-to-end protection of the FA LSP, or through any other LSP protection scheme including LSP restoration. This case seems to match what you have described, but note that the process of switching traffic (i.e. the nested LSP) from one FA LSP to another is likely to cause a small traffic hit in all but packet/frame technologies. We would like to thank you for your detailed enquiry into this topic, and hope that you feel that the discussion has been fruitful. Best regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel IETF CCAMP Co-chairs Attachment(s): No document has been attached Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:50:56 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Jones Cc: Hiroshi Otha , Stephen Trowbridge , Deborah Brungard , JP Vasseur , Ross Callon , David Ward , Scott Bradner , CCAMP Mailing List , PCE Mailing List , Adrian Farrel , Adrian Farrel From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Your OTNT Work Plan" Reply-To: Adrian Farrel Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:50:23 -0400 Title: Your OTNT Work Plan Submission Date: 2007-08-22 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=359 From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) To: ITU-T Q3/15(Greg Jones ) Cc: Hiroshi Otha Stephen Trowbridge Deborah Brungard JP Vasseur Ross Callon David Ward Scott Bradner CCAMP Mailing List PCE Mailing List Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel Purpose: In response Body: Thank you for continuing to share your OTNT work plan through your liaison from your June plenary in Geneva. I have made the IETF's CCAMP and PCE working groups aware of the work plan, and at this time we do not have any issues or concerns to raise resulting from the content of the plan. Please note that the publication of new RFCs related to the optical control plane are notified to SG15 through separate liaisons from time to time, and you may wish to update table 7-1-2 accordingly. Please keep us informed as your work plan evolves. Best regards, Adrian Farrel IETF Liaison to the ITU-T SG15 on Optical Control Plane Attachment(s): No document has been attached Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:42:26 +0000 Message-ID: <01dd01c7e4d2$ac3b48e0$aa07a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Reminder: Working Group last call on MPLS/GMPLS interworking and migration Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:26:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > These two documents concern the operation of MPLS over GMPLS, and the > migration from MPLS to GMPLS. > > The "Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration" is (the rather poorly > named) > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt > > The "Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS > Networks" are in > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt > > The documents are both Informational. > > Please send your comments (preferably to the list) by the end of WG last > call which will be 12 noon GMT 24th August 2007. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:39:28 +0000 Message-ID: <46CBD991.1060809@kddilabs.jp> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:37:05 +0900 From: Tomohiro Otani User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dpapadimitriou@psg.com Cc: "Thomas D. Nadeau" , "O'Connor, Don" , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dimitri, Sorry for the delay of the response. As Adrian mentioned, in order to improve the document, we need more feedback from operational people more than myself. After the meeting, I talked with Dave about the feedback and Wataru will also add some comments. Indeed, we are also happy to reflect comments raised in the list as a revised version. So, as Tom mentioned, once it is accepted as a WG draft, it should be accelerated more. Regards, Tomo dimitri papadimitriou =E3=81=95=E3=82=93=E3=81=AF=E6=9B=B8=E3=81=8D=E3=81= =BE=E3=81=97=E3=81=9F: > i would argue along the same line >=20 > the question for now is about - need for such document - (imho it is th= e=20 > case ack'ing that there are also additional considerations that could b= e=20 > taken into for next releases as topic matures) >=20 > ps: the main issue is do we have enough good understanding about the=20 > control plane operations in the field to write a useful document (to=20 > achieve this i hope we will gather such feedback from the list) >=20 > -d. >=20 > Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >> >> Although I agree with you on the change >> and the point of sending liaison statements, >> I do not see how this should preclude the document >> from being accepted as a CCAMP WG draft. Liaison >> statements, their handling and transmission are issues >> that are orthogonal to the creation of WG drafts. >> >> --Tom >> >>> Adrian >>> >>> I do not believe that=20 >>> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt should be a work=20 >>> group document until two clarifications / improvements are made to=20 >>> the current text, and we have agreement that the requirements=20 >>> specification will be socialized with ITU and IEEE 802.1 by way of an= =20 >>> appropriate liaison. The two changes to the text that I request are >>> >>> 1) In Section 1 Introduction, please change the sentence >>> >>> "This document describes requirements for data plane operations and=20 >>> management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching=20 >>> (GMPLS) networks" >>> >>> to >>> >>> "This document describes requirements for control plane operations=20 >>> and management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching=20 >>> (GMPLS) networks. It also describes OAM requirements associated with=20 >>> the interaction between the GMPLS Control Plane and Data Plane OAM." >>> >>> >>> 2) In Section 4 General Requirements, please change the sentence >>> >>> "The general requirements described in this section are based on=20 >>> those described for point-to-point MPLS in [RFC4377]." >>> >>> to >>> >>> "For MPLS-TE/GMPLS networks, the general requirements described in=20 >>> this section are based on those described for point-to-point MPLS in=20 >>> [RFC4377]." >>> >>> Considering that ITU SG 15 has responsibility for SDH / SONET and WDM= =20 >>> data planes and IEEE 802.1 has responsibility for the 802.1ah PBB and= =20 >>> 802.1ay PBB-TE data planes, including data plane OAM - the ID should=20 >>> be sent to these SDOs with an appropriate liaison. >>> >>> IEEE 802.1 is also doing PBB / PBB-TE MIBs and ITU SG 4 is=20 >>> responsible for the management of SDH / SONET / WDM networks, so any=20 >>> new management requirements that this ID identifies, will be relevant= =20 >>> to the purview of these SDOs >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Don >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On >>> Behalf Of Adrian Farrel >>> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:33 AM >>> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org >>> Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Ple= ase >>> give your opinions: >>> >>> 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt >>> This is a partner draft to=20 >>> draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt >>> The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several=20 >>> questions of >>> detail were raised. >>> Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change= =20 >>> the >>> mechanism. >>> >>> 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt >>> This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both=20 >>> co-authors, so >>> we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice= =20 >>> your >>> opinions loud and clear. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Adrian >> >> >> . >> >=20 >=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:06:17 +0000 Message-ID: <042a01c7e0d6$94757fa0$0601a8c0@pc6> Reply-To: "tom.petch" From: "tom.petch" To: "Adrian Farrel" , Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:54:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds > 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt > This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co-authors, so > we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice your > opinions loud and clear. > Mmmmm ... I agree that this will, most likely, be the basis of the charter milestone but it does seem to lack clarity and consistency, especially from about 4.3 onwards. From many possible examples, - if the reader is assumed to be familiar with [RFC3945, RFC4377] then I expect those to be normative references. - are requirements subject to RFC2119? I've seen this argued both ways recently; here the approach seems to be 'yes' up to 4.2.3, 'no' for 4.3 onwards - "... between control planes of different layers. For the operational convenience, 4.10 Support for OAM Interworking for Fault Notification ..." Am I missing something? - "4.3 Interaction between the GMPLS Control Plane and Data Plane. ...The operational state of one plane should be automatically reflected to that of another plane. " Reflecting control plane operational state to data plane does not sound like OAM as I understand it. Like, does that mean when the control plane goes down, the data plane is taken down:-(? -" 4.2.2 The Management plane SHALL provide the capability to verify routing consistency in the control plane with the data plane." I am struggling to imagine what this is (especially given the emphasis elsewhere in this document on the separation of data and control planes). - "4.2.1 The change of recovery type of LSPs is required, for example, from unprotected to 1+1 protected LSP, or from full LSP rerouting to pre-planned LSP rerouting. Other capabilities include changing a recovery type of LSPs [RFC4426, Segment]" What is the difference between 'the change of recovery type of LSPs' and 'changing a recovery type of LSPs' (apart from one being a noun and the other a verbal noun)? Like I said, mmmmmmm Tom Petch > Thanks, > Adrian > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:57:08 +0000 Message-ID: <042601c7e036$e0ed1c80$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "Eric Gray \(LO/EUS\)" , "JP Vasseur" , "Arthi Ayyangar" Cc: "Ross Callon" , , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , Subject: Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-06.txt Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:52:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Eric, Many thanks. > Summary: > ======= > > This document is not ready for publishing as a Proposed Standard. > Some points require clarifications. > > Comments: > ======== > > The following paragraph (section 2) seems inconsistent with the > text in subsequent sections: it seems that it is saying that any > combination of the three methods (contiguous, nested, stitched) > could be used in a _single_ LSP - yet at least on of these is > defined as "end-to-end" in subsequent text (contiguous). [SNIP] Point taken. What we were trying to convey is that, domain by domain, you may apply any one of the techniques. We can re-work this text to make it clearer and possibly include a (rather trite) example. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Still related to the above, but as a side note, the fact that it > is not immediately clear which of these is the intention in this > document is an indication of a potential for some very serious > interoperability issues. Some of the subsequent text mentions > the potential for a "policy failure" that SHOULD fail the setup. > > In addition to not being absolutely clear (when would it be okay > not to fail, is there a way to indicate that an alternative is > allowed, etc?), this implies that it is possible for a domain to > have a policy (for example, against contiguous LSP setup) that is > going to result in complete non-interoperation with a domain (or > implementation) asking for contiguous LSP setup. > > This sort of policy conflict may easily arise if one implementer, > or operator, interprets the specification one way and another (or > others) interprets it another in terms of expected "end to end" > behavior and combinations of the types of "spanning" LSPs. The ability to fail to interoperate at the domain level is intended to be an operator choice. If, for whatever reason, the operator only wants to allow one of the mechanisms, and the ingress domain insists on another mechanism, then it is important to provide for the rejection of the LSP setup. The most obvious (to me) example, is that an ingress may request a contiguous LSP because it wishes to exert maximal control over the LSP's path and (in particular) to control when re-optimization takes place. OTOH, the operator of a transit domain may decide that only (for example) LSP stitching is allowed for exactly the reason that it gives the operator the chance to reoptimize their own domain under their own control. Now there is a stand-off. The ingress operator has a choice: - find another path - relax his requirements - fail to provide the service. But the point about implementation is more important. The choice is not very functional if the ingress LSR is not able to support all modes. Fortunately, that is easy to implement (it is only a flag). The choice is, however, fully functional if the LSRs at the borders of the transit domain only support one mechanism (since that must be the mechanism that the domain operator is deploying). We can clarify this choice, but I don;t believe any functional change is required. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > The last two paragraphs in section 2 (preceding the heading for > section 2.1) are confusing and (potentially) contradictory: one > appears to say that signaling extensions (for control/selection > of methods) are in scope while specific details are not, but the > other seems to say otherwise. > > I suspect that the word "control" is where I am getting hung-up. > If it is intended that the specifics of each method are out of > scope in this document - once a method is selected - then it is > hard to see how "control [...] of the three signaling mechanisms" > is in scope but "specific protocol extensions required to signal > each LSP type" is not. > > Perhaps "control and" should be removed? I think the issue is with the associativity of "and". We mean: This document describes the RSVP-TE signaling extensions required to control which of the three signaling mechanisms is used and to select which of the three signaling mechanisms is used. I agree that "control and" is superfluous. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > In section 3, under bullet 4a - on page 6 - you use "SHOULD" in > saying whether or not a PathErr message is to be generated. Why > - or under what circumstances - would it be appropriate not to do > so? Hmmm. RFC 3209 includes a variety of reasons to generate a PathErr carrying the "Routing Problem" error. Some of these are related to path computation failure (including next hop selection), and the referenced text relates to path computation failure. We do not feel that we can redefine (or justify!) the behavior described in RFC 3209. In addition, the referenced I-D ([INTER-DOMAIN-PD-PATH-COMP], also describes this behavior - and needs to be fixed to include why this is a "MAY". My opinion is that at a domain boundary we should make the same considerations as in RFC 4208 sections 3.1 and 3.2 (note the error in 3.2 with lower case "should"). The reasoning here, I believe, is that a Path message could be interpretted as a network probe, and a PathErr provides information about the network capabilities and policies. Therefore, it may be an administrative/security policy to not send a PathErr under certain routing failure conditions. We should clarify this six (count them!) ways: - reference to 3209 - reference to [INTER-DOMAIN-PD-PATH-COMP] - explanation of when an application MAY decide to not send PathErr - text in the security section - explanation in [INTER-DOMAIN-PD-PATH-COMP] of when an application MAY decide to not send PathErr - text in the security section of [INTER-DOMAIN-PD-PATH-COMP] > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Similarly, on page 7, you use the word SHOULD with respect to ERO > processing in a Path message. When (or under what circumstances) > would it make sense not to do as specified? What alternatives are > there? > > This same observation then applies to several (all?) of the actual > procedures - although several of them do provide some degree of > amplification as to when (or why) a specific step might not apply. I think that the numbered paragraphs need to be updated as: 1. first SHOULD -> MUST; second SHOULD remains with added explanation 2. SHOULD -> MUST 3. SHOULD remains with added explanation 6. SHOULD remains with added explanation The changes of SHOULD to MUST need consultation with my co-authors and with the WG. > Perhaps it would be best to clarify in the steps themselves and - > rather than say "SHOULD" in the introductory statement, it might > be enough to simply say that the following procedures apply (thus > avoiding the issue of using either SHOULD or MUST). I agree. The meta-paragraph (before the numbered points) doesn't make sense since "SHOULD do a MUST" is meaningless. We should drop the 2109 language from that text. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > After "However:" in section 3.2, I would suggest some form of > modification or qualification of the first bullet similar to: > > - A domain border node MUST NOT passively suppress propagation > of a PathErr message. > > Clearly, if the device applies a successful crankback approach, > it does not make sense for it to propagate the PathErr anyway. OK. This was obviously not sufficiently clear. It was meant to imply that the PathErr must - either be propagated - or dropped because some other action has been applied In other words, a PathErr must not simply be dropped according to policy, whim, or misadventure. (Actually, misadventure can occur because of the nature of IP :-) We can try to expan the text to make "passively suppress" less opaque. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > In the third bullet of section 7, page 15, "do not need to be > considered" does not follow from "are likely to be upgraded". > > True - if they are upgraded - then they are unlikely to need > to be considered in backward compatibility discussion. But > "likely to be" is NOT the same as "are". > > The point I think you are trying to make is that upgrading a > border LSR to include this capability is an essential enabling > requirement for useful operation of this capability - and that > makes it unnecessary to consider such upgraded border LSRs in > backward compatibility. Yes, that is exactly the point. Of course, it is possible that someone will try to exercise the function without upgrading the domain border LSRs, but then it wouldn't work, and is not expected to work. We will try to polish the text. ====================================================================== > NITs: [SNIP] > In section 3.1, as currently formatted, the "factors including:" > seems to be "Farrel, Ayyangar and Vasseur" - an artifact of the > way that your document only has a single empty text-line between > the last line of content-text and the page footer. This is only > a problem when reading the electronic version and - most likely - > a (humorous) temporary problem that will fall out in subsequent > versions. If not, it might be a good idea to force the line with > a colon ending it to not orphan the next line of content-text. > > In the version I read, this occurs at the bottom of page 6. How do you know this is not how we intended it to be read? [SNIP] Very many thanks. Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:41:29 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:39:25 +0200 Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380F951BA@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> Thread-Topic: Proposed CCAMP recharter thread-index: AcfgELq4f3k5xLieRMSf4SJfX4or1wABEBeA From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Igor Bryskin" , "Don Fedyk" , "Adrian Farrel" , "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" Cc: =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Igor Bryskin > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 4:21 PM > To: Don Fedyk; Adrian Farrel; MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN > Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter >=20 > Adrian is proposing: >=20 > - Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support=20 > source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths=20 > for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO=20 > with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane.... >=20 > IMO this is lacking the fact that while computing the=20 > mentioned paths we will consider various TE proprieties of=20 > Ethernet links, and while setting up the paths we will=20 > perform resource reservation. I mean explicitly routed paths=20 > may be computed and established without any TE=20 > considerations, and that's not what we are planning to do in CCAMP.=20 > > So, I would change the text to something like: >=20 > - Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support Traffic=20 > Engineered Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that=20 > are already approved by an SDO with responsibility for the=20 > Ethernet data plane.... if you do so, you then come back to the initial issue. TE data paths & mechanisms are not CCAMP specific (and may applied to=20 bridged Ethernet) hence you would not characterize the Ethernet mode - see my previous post -=20 so suggest to rephrase as: - Work on traffic-engineering mechanisms and extensions to=20 support source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet =20 data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved=20 by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It=20 is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE.=20 Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data=20 planes is out of scope. =20 -d. > Don Fedyk wrote: >=20 > Hi Adrian > =20 > It's OK you disagree. :-) I myself would have used the=20 > term connection oriented a while back. However I have=20 > observed that others have a different interpretation and=20 > connection oriented Ethernet is confusing to that crowd. I do=20 > believe this a difference between service and network as you=20 > point out but traditional Ethernet has a tighter coupling=20 > between network and service and the distinction is more=20 > subtle. Ethernet packets are not forwarded in a hop by hop=20 > paradigm, they follow a VLAN or source based tree always.=20 > =20 > So rather than put confusing text I prefer what Adrian=20 > has proposed. =20 > =20 > Regards, > Don=20 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:i_bryskin@yahoo.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:32 AM > To: Fedyk, Don (BL60:1A00); Adrian Farrel;=20 > MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN > Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter > =09 > =09 > Hi Don, > =09 > I disagree with you on this.=20 > =09 > It all depends on definition of connection. If=20 > one agrees on the following major properties of a p2p/p2mp connection: > =09 > a) single source; > b) zero flexibility in forwarding packets along=20 > the connection; > c) deterministic resource reservation=20 > =09 > then one can see the difference between, say,=20 > Ethernet service (which is an association between source(s)=20 > and destination(s)) and Ethernet connection (which is a set=20 > of network resources connecting the source to the=20 > destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either=20 > connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks.=20 > Ethernet services, as we know, may be also provided by=20 > non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS) networks). > PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections=20 > rather than Ethernet services. > =09 > The bottom line: I think it is correct to have=20 > the "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP charter. > =09 > Igor > =09 > Don Fedyk wrote:=20 >=20 > Hi Adrian > =09 > Hi Adrian > =09 > The description of the term=20 > "connection-oriented" does not hold quite > the same meaning in the IEEE as in the=20 > IETF. In IEEE, my understanding > is that unicast and multicast services=20 > in Ethernet are all considered > "connections" or "associations" when=20 > they are part of the same Service > VLAN or Service Instance. So many types=20 > of Ethernet services can be > considered "connection-oriented".=20 > =09 > Therefore the term=20 > "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF > also considers TCP "connection=20 > oriented" even though IP is > connectionless datagram based.)=20 > =09 > I would suggest we use something=20 > descriptive like "Explicit Route > Controlled Paths", or "Automating=20 > Configured Ethernet Paths".=20 > =09 > Just a suggestion, > Don=20 > =09 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Hi Julien, > =09 > > I agree with Dimitri about the use of=20 > the term "Ethernet". As we don't > > control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking=20 > into controlling a "connection- > > oriented Ethernet" which isn't really=20 > Ethernet and not supported by > > typical "Ethernet switches". > =09 > OK. I'll modify the text I just=20 > suggested to Dimitri, to say=20 > "connection-oriented" > =09 > > On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) > > we are also considering Ethernet=20 > services over any GMPLS-controlled > > layer. > =09 > Agree. But don't think we need milestones. > =09 > > I also agree it is useless to=20 > rearrange all short-term milestones > (unlike=20 > > the > > charter which has a more long-term value). > =09 > I tend to agree, but I suspect that the=20 > IESG will find it hard to > approve a=20 > re-charter with dates that have been passed. > =09 > Thanks, > Adrian=20 > =09 > =09 > =09 > =09 > =09 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Pinpoint customers=20 > o.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v9.php?o=3DUS2226&cmp=3DYahoo&ctv=3DAprNI& > s=3DY&s2=3DEM&b=3D50> who are looking for what you sell.=20 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers=20 > ileweb/onesearch?refer=3D1ONXIC> , not web links.=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:21:15 +0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=Fh8C3tUl2A9WuEOtN2dhvyfPSIw73RQ0tHSdZ7EuUXELcEVyMsQtp9aKMvRTrcTmuksGd9B/TZBK+0F18YQrgFhYqccQZd1yxxEhlwydbBYCy92fbG9nly6QoDNu9uOXywlYRTheRQ9bmgFkqc2O0xC9XHSOYKAW5bmjO7EnjxE=; Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:20:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Igor Bryskin Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter To: Don Fedyk , Adrian Farrel , MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1509399795-1187274035=:38874" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <816420.38874.qm@web36803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --0-1509399795-1187274035=:38874 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Adrian is proposing: - Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane.... IMO this is lacking the fact that while computing the mentioned paths we will consider various TE proprieties of Ethernet links, and while setting up the paths we will perform resource reservation. I mean explicitly routed paths may be computed and established without any TE considerations, and that's not what we are planning to do in CCAMP. So, I would change the text to something like: - Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support Traffic Engineered Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane.... Don Fedyk wrote: Hi Adrian It's OK you disagree. :-) I myself would have used the term connection oriented a while back. However I have observed that others have a different interpretation and connection oriented Ethernet is confusing to that crowd. I do believe this a difference between service and network as you point out but traditional Ethernet has a tighter coupling between network and service and the distinction is more subtle. Ethernet packets are not forwarded in a hop by hop paradigm, they follow a VLAN or source based tree always. So rather than put confusing text I prefer what Adrian has proposed. Regards, Don --------------------------------- From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:i_bryskin@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:32 AM To: Fedyk, Don (BL60:1A00); Adrian Farrel; MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter Hi Don, I disagree with you on this. It all depends on definition of connection. If one agrees on the following major properties of a p2p/p2mp connection: a) single source; b) zero flexibility in forwarding packets along the connection; c) deterministic resource reservation then one can see the difference between, say, Ethernet service (which is an association between source(s) and destination(s)) and Ethernet connection (which is a set of network resources connecting the source to the destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks. Ethernet services, as we know, may be also provided by non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS) networks). PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections rather than Ethernet services. The bottom line: I think it is correct to have the "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP charter. Igor Don Fedyk wrote: Hi Adrian Hi Adrian The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered "connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be considered "connection-oriented". Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is connectionless datagram based.) I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths". Just a suggestion, Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Hi Julien, > I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't > control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection- > oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by > typical "Ethernet switches". OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say "connection-oriented" > On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) > we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled > layer. Agree. But don't think we need milestones. > I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones (unlike > the > charter which has a more long-term value). I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to approve a re-charter with dates that have been passed. Thanks, Adrian --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --0-1509399795-1187274035=:38874 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Adrian is proposing:

- Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with  responsibility for the Ethernet data plane....

IMO this is lacking the fact that while computing the mentioned paths we will consider various TE proprieties of Ethernet links, and while setting up the paths we will perform resource reservation. I mean explicitly routed paths may be computed and established without any TE considerations, and that's not what we are planning to do in CCAMP.

So, I would change the text to something like:

- Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support Traffic Engineered Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with  responsibility for the Ethernet data plane....



Don Fedyk <dwfedyk@nortel.com> wrote:
Hi Adrian
 
It's OK you disagree. :-)  I myself would have used the term connection oriented a while back. However I have observed that others have a different interpretation and connection oriented Ethernet is confusing to that crowd. I do believe this a difference between service and network as you point out but traditional Ethernet has a tighter coupling between network and service and the distinction is more subtle. Ethernet packets are not forwarded in a hop by hop paradigm, they follow a VLAN or source based tree always.
 
So rather than put confusing text I prefer what Adrian has proposed. 
 
Regards,
Don

From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:i_bryskin@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:32 AM
To: Fedyk, Don (BL60:1A00); Adrian Farrel; MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter

Hi Don,

I disagree with you on this.

It all depends on definition of connection. If one agrees on the following major properties of a p2p/p2mp connection:

a) single source;
b) zero flexibility in forwarding packets along the connection;
c) deterministic resource reservation

then one can see the difference between, say, Ethernet service (which is an association between source(s) and destination(s)) and Ethernet connection (which is a set of network resources connecting the source to the destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks. Ethernet services, as we know, may be also provided by non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS) networks).
PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections rather than Ethernet services.

The bottom line: I think it is correct to have the "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP charter.

Igor

Don Fedyk <dwfedyk@nortel.com> wrote:
Hi Adrian

Hi Adrian

The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite
the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding
is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered
"connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service
VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be
considered "connection-oriented".

Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF
also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is
connectionless datagram based.)

I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route
Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths".

Just a suggestion,
Don

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Hi Julien,

> I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't
> control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection-
> oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by
> typical "Ethernet switches".

OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say
"connection-oriented"

> On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again)
> we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled
> layer.

Agree. But don't think we need milestones.

> I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones
(unlike
> the
> charter which has a more long-term value).

I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to
approve a
re-charter with dates that have been passed.

Thanks,
Adrian





Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --0-1509399795-1187274035=:38874-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:48:30 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7E00B.FCE0FB86" Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:47:29 -0400 Message-ID: <34B3EAA5B3066A42914D28C5ECF5FEA410E51984@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> Thread-Topic: Proposed CCAMP recharter Thread-Index: AcfgCczongC9A28TSDuLWFCsAwZXHQAABmpg From: "Don Fedyk" To: "Igor Bryskin" , "Adrian Farrel" , "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" Cc: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7E00B.FCE0FB86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adrian =20 It's OK you disagree. :-) I myself would have used the term connection oriented a while back. However I have observed that others have a different interpretation and connection oriented Ethernet is confusing to that crowd. I do believe this a difference between service and network as you point out but traditional Ethernet has a tighter coupling between network and service and the distinction is more subtle. Ethernet packets are not forwarded in a hop by hop paradigm, they follow a VLAN or source based tree always.=20 =20 So rather than put confusing text I prefer what Adrian has proposed. =20 =20 Regards, Don=20 ________________________________ From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:i_bryskin@yahoo.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:32 AM To: Fedyk, Don (BL60:1A00); Adrian Farrel; MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter =09 =09 Hi Don, =09 I disagree with you on this.=20 =09 It all depends on definition of connection. If one agrees on the following major properties of a p2p/p2mp connection: =09 a) single source; b) zero flexibility in forwarding packets along the connection; c) deterministic resource reservation=20 =09 then one can see the difference between, say, Ethernet service (which is an association between source(s) and destination(s)) and Ethernet connection (which is a set of network resources connecting the source to the destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks. Ethernet services, as we know, may be also provided by non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS) networks). PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections rather than Ethernet services. =09 The bottom line: I think it is correct to have the "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP charter. =09 Igor =09 Don Fedyk wrote:=20 Hi Adrian =09 Hi Adrian =09 The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered "connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be considered "connection-oriented".=20 =09 Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is connectionless datagram based.)=20 =09 I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths".=20 =09 Just a suggestion, Don=20 =09 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Hi Julien, =09 > I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't > control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection- > oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by > typical "Ethernet switches". =09 OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say=20 "connection-oriented" =09 > On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) > we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled > layer. =09 Agree. But don't think we need milestones. =09 > I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones (unlike=20 > the > charter which has a more long-term value). =09 I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to approve a=20 re-charter with dates that have been passed. =09 Thanks, Adrian=20 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 ________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7E00B.FCE0FB86 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Adrian
 
It's OK you disagree. :-)  I myself would = have used=20 the term connection oriented a while back. However I have observed that = others=20 have a different interpretation and connection oriented Ethernet is = confusing to=20 that crowd. I do believe this a difference between service and network = as you=20 point out but traditional Ethernet has a tighter coupling between = network and=20 service and the distinction is more subtle. Ethernet packets are not = forwarded=20 in a hop by hop paradigm, they follow a VLAN or source based tree = always.=20
 
So rather than put confusing text I prefer what = Adrian has=20 proposed. 
 
Regards,
Don

From: Igor Bryskin=20 [mailto:i_bryskin@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 16, = 2007 9:32=20 AM
To: Fedyk, Don (BL60:1A00); Adrian Farrel; MEURIC Julien=20 RD-CORE-LAN
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: RE: = Proposed=20 CCAMP recharter

Hi Don,

I disagree with you on this.

It all = depends=20 on definition of connection. If one agrees on the following major = properties=20 of a p2p/p2mp connection:

a) single source;
b) zero = flexibility in=20 forwarding packets along the connection;
c) deterministic resource=20 reservation

then one can see the difference between, say, = Ethernet=20 service (which is an association between source(s) and destination(s)) = and=20 Ethernet connection (which is a set of network resources connecting = the source=20 to the destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either=20 connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks. Ethernet = services, as=20 we know, may be also provided by non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS)=20 networks).
PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections rather than = Ethernet services.

The bottom line: I think it is correct to = have the=20 "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP=20 charter.

Igor

Don Fedyk = <dwfedyk@nortel.com>=20 wrote:
Hi=20 Adrian

Hi Adrian

The description of the term=20 "connection-oriented" does not hold quite
the same meaning in the = IEEE as=20 in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding
is that unicast and = multicast=20 services in Ethernet are all considered
"connections" or = "associations"=20 when they are part of the same Service
VLAN or Service Instance. = So many=20 types of Ethernet services can be
considered = "connection-oriented".=20

Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. = (The=20 IETF
also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP=20 is
connectionless datagram based.)

I would suggest we use = something descriptive like "Explicit Route
Controlled Paths", or=20 "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths".

Just a = suggestion,
Don=20

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org = [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Adrian = Farrel
Hi=20 Julien,

> I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term=20 "Ethernet". As we don't
> control IP but MPLS-TE, we're = looking into=20 controlling a "connection-
> oriented Ethernet" which isn't = really=20 Ethernet and not supported by
> typical "Ethernet=20 switches".

OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to = Dimitri, to=20 say
"connection-oriented"

> On the other hand, = (echoing=20 Dimitri again)
> we are also considering Ethernet services = over any=20 GMPLS-controlled
> layer.

Agree. But don't think we = need=20 milestones.

> I also agree it is useless to rearrange all=20 short-term milestones
(unlike
> the
> charter which = has a=20 more long-term value).

I tend to agree, but I suspect that = the IESG=20 will find it hard to
approve a
re-charter with dates that = have been=20 passed.

Thanks,
Adrian =





Pinpoint=20 customers who are looking for what you sell. =
------_=_NextPart_001_01C7E00B.FCE0FB86-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:34:04 +0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=ZrXlI/Dmsx1ORWY0on8r/QBSJeJ8wLb2uK8ycHujlvk1cw9YcR16YO4O1L8NbCMNJUH+LRGmP3s2rpuSyuPz7Q29q55833RZka8QwID8v7pxaVoh8fxsaw/mAauw3L4/BxFXxZFspIs5n5Ousdxi1OXDHdSTxKLbmKhrWGeiCsA=; Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 06:31:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Igor Bryskin Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter To: Don Fedyk , Adrian Farrel , MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1129364849-1187271102=:64567" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <192148.64567.qm@web36805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --0-1129364849-1187271102=:64567 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Don, I disagree with you on this. It all depends on definition of connection. If one agrees on the following major properties of a p2p/p2mp connection: a) single source; b) zero flexibility in forwarding packets along the connection; c) deterministic resource reservation then one can see the difference between, say, Ethernet service (which is an association between source(s) and destination(s)) and Ethernet connection (which is a set of network resources connecting the source to the destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks. Ethernet services, as we know, may be also provided by non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS) networks). PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections rather than Ethernet services. The bottom line: I think it is correct to have the "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP charter. Igor Don Fedyk wrote: Hi Adrian Hi Adrian The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered "connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be considered "connection-oriented". Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is connectionless datagram based.) I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths". Just a suggestion, Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Hi Julien, > I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't > control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection- > oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by > typical "Ethernet switches". OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say "connection-oriented" > On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) > we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled > layer. Agree. But don't think we need milestones. > I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones (unlike > the > charter which has a more long-term value). I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to approve a re-charter with dates that have been passed. Thanks, Adrian --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. --0-1129364849-1187271102=:64567 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Don,

I disagree with you on this.

It all depends on definition of connection. If one agrees on the following major properties of a p2p/p2mp connection:

a) single source;
b) zero flexibility in forwarding packets along the connection;
c) deterministic resource reservation

then one can see the difference between, say, Ethernet service (which is an association between source(s) and destination(s)) and Ethernet connection (which is a set of network resources connecting the source to the destination(s)). Ethernet services may be provided by either connection-oriented or connectionless Ethernet networks. Ethernet services, as we know, may be also provided by non-Ethernet (e.g. IP/MPLS) networks).
PBB-TE IMO is all about Ethernet connections rather than Ethernet services.

The bottom line: I think it is correct to have the "connection-oriented Ethernet" clause in the CCAMP charter.

Igor

Don Fedyk <dwfedyk@nortel.com> wrote:
Hi Adrian

Hi Adrian

The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite
the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding
is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered
"connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service
VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be
considered "connection-oriented".

Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF
also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is
connectionless datagram based.)

I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route
Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths".

Just a suggestion,
Don

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Hi Julien,

> I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't
> control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection-
> oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by
> typical "Ethernet switches".

OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say
"connection-oriented"

> On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again)
> we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled
> layer.

Agree. But don't think we need milestones.

> I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones
(unlike
> the
> charter which has a more long-term value).

I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to
approve a
re-charter with dates that have been passed.

Thanks,
Adrian





Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. --0-1129364849-1187271102=:64567-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:15:32 +0000 Message-ID: <037d01c7dfe5$d2552a10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Recharter - Last Chance Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:11:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Following from the small comments received on the list, here is the modified charter update proposal. This is your last chance to comment before we send it to the IESG for approval. Adrian and Deborah === First paragraph OLD The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, MPLS, GRE, in cooperation with the MPLS WG. NEW The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, TDM switches, Ethernet switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, and MPLS and GRE in cooperation with the MPLS WG. === New paragraph in the list of Scope bullets. Suggest to place it after: "- Definition of MIB modules and other OAM techniques relevant to the protocols and extensions specified within the WG." and before: "CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks:" - Work on GMPLS procedures and extensions to support source- controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE. Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data planes is out of scope. === Final paragraph OLD In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T. NEW In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN, and PCE. The WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1. === Milestone revisions (see below for full revised milestone list) OLD Jan 2006 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN NEW Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN --- OLD Mar 2006 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements NEW Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements --- OLD Apr 2006 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions NEW Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions --- OLD Jun 2006 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review NEW Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review --- OLD Oct 2006 Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG review NEW Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG review --- OLD Nov 2006 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review NEW Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review --- OLD Dec 2006 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks I-D for IESG review NEW Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks I-D for IESG review --- OLD Jan 2007 Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions I-D for IESG review NEW Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements I-D for IESG review --- OLD Feb 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for IESG review NEW Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for IESG review --- OLD Mar 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG review NEW Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG review --- OLD Jun 2007 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review NEW Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review --- OLD Aug 2007 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review NEW Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review --- OLD Dec 2007 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for MIB doctor and IESG review NEW Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for MIB doctor and IESG review --- OLD Dec 2007 Recharter or close Working Group NEW Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group --- NEW Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks --- NEW May 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review ==== Goals and Milestones (full revised milestone list) Done Post strawman WG goals and charter Done Identify and document a limited set of candidate solutions for signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control solutions to be considered are the existing GMPLS drafts. Done Build appropriate design teams Done Submit WG document defining path setup portions of common control plane protocol Done Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol Done Submit LMP MIB to IESG Done Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG Done Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG Done Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG Done Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol Done Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling and routing Done Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG Done Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for IESG consideration of more detailed deliverables and determination of usefulness of continuation of WG Done First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF Done First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership Done Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review Done Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF Done First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies Done First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks Done First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN Done First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions Done Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling I-D for IESG review Done Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for IESG review Done First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module Done Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management I-D for IESG review Done First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths Done Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF for IESG review Done Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review Done First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions Done Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review Done Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership for IESG review Done Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability advice I-D for IESG review Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG review Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks I-D for IESG review Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for IESG review Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG review Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for MIB doctor and IESG review May 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group ==== Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 08:30:34 +0000 Message-ID: <46C40AD3.30404@psg.com> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:29:07 +0200 From: dimitri papadimitriou Reply-To: dpapadimitriou@psg.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Don Fedyk CC: Adrian Farrel , MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Proposed CCAMP recharter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit don & adrian > Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF > also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is > connectionless datagram based.) > > I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route > Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths". i think the concern is to draw a line between VLAN-bridged Ethernet/MSTP and X/Y, where Y is what is under discussion at CCAMP and X is what one tries with this thread to qualify e.g. "source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths" (approved by an SDO responsible for the Ethernet data plane) or something along these lines would prevent that confusion. -d. Don Fedyk wrote: > Hi Adrian > > Hi Adrian > > The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite > the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding > is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered > "connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service > VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be > considered "connection-oriented". > > Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF > also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is > connectionless datagram based.) > > I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route > Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths". > > Just a suggestion, > Don > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Hi Julien, > >> I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't >> control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection- >> oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by >> typical "Ethernet switches". > > OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say > "connection-oriented" > >> On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) >> we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled >> layer. > > Agree. But don't think we need milestones. > >> I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones > (unlike >> the >> charter which has a more long-term value). > > I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to > approve a > re-charter with dates that have been passed. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > > > > . > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:44:11 +0000 Message-ID: <46C3FFB5.1020006@psg.com> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:41:41 +0200 From: dimitri papadimitriou Reply-To: dpapadimitriou@psg.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" CC: "O'Connor, Don" , Adrian Farrel , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i would argue along the same line the question for now is about - need for such document - (imho it is the case ack'ing that there are also additional considerations that could be taken into for next releases as topic matures) ps: the main issue is do we have enough good understanding about the control plane operations in the field to write a useful document (to achieve this i hope we will gather such feedback from the list) -d. Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: > > Although I agree with you on the change > and the point of sending liaison statements, > I do not see how this should preclude the document > from being accepted as a CCAMP WG draft. Liaison > statements, their handling and transmission are issues > that are orthogonal to the creation of WG drafts. > > --Tom > >> Adrian >> >> I do not believe that draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt >> should be a work group document until two clarifications / >> improvements are made to the current text, and we have agreement that >> the requirements specification will be socialized with ITU and IEEE >> 802.1 by way of an appropriate liaison. The two changes to the text >> that I request are >> >> 1) In Section 1 Introduction, please change the sentence >> >> "This document describes requirements for data plane operations and >> management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching >> (GMPLS) networks" >> >> to >> >> "This document describes requirements for control plane operations and >> management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching >> (GMPLS) networks. It also describes OAM requirements associated with >> the interaction between the GMPLS Control Plane and Data Plane OAM." >> >> >> 2) In Section 4 General Requirements, please change the sentence >> >> "The general requirements described in this section are based on those >> described for point-to-point MPLS in [RFC4377]." >> >> to >> >> "For MPLS-TE/GMPLS networks, the general requirements described in >> this section are based on those described for point-to-point MPLS in >> [RFC4377]." >> >> Considering that ITU SG 15 has responsibility for SDH / SONET and WDM >> data planes and IEEE 802.1 has responsibility for the 802.1ah PBB and >> 802.1ay PBB-TE data planes, including data plane OAM - the ID should >> be sent to these SDOs with an appropriate liaison. >> >> IEEE 802.1 is also doing PBB / PBB-TE MIBs and ITU SG 4 is responsible >> for the management of SDH / SONET / WDM networks, so any new >> management requirements that this ID identifies, will be relevant to >> the purview of these SDOs >> >> Regards >> >> Don >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On >> Behalf Of Adrian Farrel >> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:33 AM >> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org >> Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds >> >> >> Hi, >> >> In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Please >> give your opinions: >> >> 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt >> This is a partner draft to >> draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt >> The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several >> questions of >> detail were raised. >> Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change the >> mechanism. >> >> 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt >> This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both >> co-authors, so >> we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice >> your >> opinions loud and clear. >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian > > > . > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:13:52 +0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20070816105531.074c4100@mailsv4.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:13:24 +0900 To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Wataru Imajuku Subject: draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt Cc: Tomohiro Otani Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Tomohiro Through the consideration about your proposal, I understood the value of your draft especailly if we employed tunable lasers in photonic networks. Key point is the case of LSP creation from NE's with tunable lasers connected to "colorless" fiber, and multiplexing the LSP into WDM fiber. With the information of Lambda Label, the ROADM/OXC nodes can understand the color of LSPs even the LSP transit through "colorless" fibers. Then, the ROADM/OXC nodes properly judge whether specified Lambda space is available or not in next-hop WDM fibers. My suggestion is to simplify your explanation in Figure 1 and Figure 2. I think the value of your draft can be expressed more simple network model. IMHO, do not need the explanation of inter-domain network model to explain the value of your proposal. Best Regards Wataru ------------------------------------- Dr. Wataru Imajuku@NTT Network Innovation Labs TEL: +81-46-859-4315 FAX: +81-46-859-5541 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:16:50 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:15:30 -0400 Message-ID: <34B3EAA5B3066A42914D28C5ECF5FEA410E51500@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> Thread-Topic: Proposed CCAMP recharter Thread-Index: AcffW0Bp6onlmrqvQsmaVRh5ECKxWgAIU9OQ From: "Don Fedyk" To: "Adrian Farrel" , "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" Cc: Hi Adrian Hi Adrian The description of the term "connection-oriented" does not hold quite the same meaning in the IEEE as in the IETF. In IEEE, my understanding is that unicast and multicast services in Ethernet are all considered "connections" or "associations" when they are part of the same Service VLAN or Service Instance. So many types of Ethernet services can be considered "connection-oriented". =20 Therefore the term "connection-oriented" might be confusing. (The IETF also considers TCP "connection oriented" even though IP is connectionless datagram based.)=20 I would suggest we use something descriptive like "Explicit Route Controlled Paths", or "Automating Configured Ethernet Paths". =20 Just a suggestion, Don =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Hi Julien, > I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't > control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection- > oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by > typical "Ethernet switches". OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say=20 "connection-oriented" > On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) > we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled > layer. Agree. But don't think we need milestones. > I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones (unlike=20 > the > charter which has a more long-term value). I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to approve a=20 re-charter with dates that have been passed. Thanks, Adrian=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:20:28 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: "Adrian Farrel" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:19:24 -0400 To: "O'Connor, Don" DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3168; t=1187219967; x=1188083967; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=tnadeau@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Thomas=20D.=20Nadeau=22=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Polling=20for=20two=20new=20working=20group=20I-Ds |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22O'Connor,=20Don=22=20; bh=ScUUv0AEG/Bl2DsQ4sAyMDCIyoEJST9oyyKVUYY4Uzs=; b=EJ6fT8HyM/F0URJEj2EWMYMehgWQY2/U1klDYetVkjJwjOu5VqSnRCnoAbLIt8zceUHrzp1X jtgAwHtOQvHkGY2IhAHEgA1pd/9glPPfn0owC1SOoXy195TwTrHauMyw; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=tnadeau@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Although I agree with you on the change and the point of sending liaison statements, I do not see how this should preclude the document from being accepted as a CCAMP WG draft. Liaison statements, their handling and transmission are issues that are orthogonal to the creation of WG drafts. --Tom > Adrian > > I do not believe that draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam- > requirements-01.txt should be a work group document until two > clarifications / improvements are made to the current text, and we > have agreement that the requirements specification will be > socialized with ITU and IEEE 802.1 by way of an appropriate > liaison. The two changes to the text that I request are > > 1) In Section 1 Introduction, please change the sentence > > "This document describes requirements for data plane operations and > management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching > (GMPLS) networks" > > to > > "This document describes requirements for control plane operations > and management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching > (GMPLS) networks. It also describes OAM requirements associated > with the interaction between the GMPLS Control Plane and Data Plane > OAM." > > > 2) In Section 4 General Requirements, please change the sentence > > "The general requirements described in this section are based on > those described for point-to-point MPLS in [RFC4377]." > > to > > "For MPLS-TE/GMPLS networks, the general requirements described in > this section are based on those described for point-to-point MPLS > in [RFC4377]." > > Considering that ITU SG 15 has responsibility for SDH / SONET and > WDM data planes and IEEE 802.1 has responsibility for the 802.1ah > PBB and 802.1ay PBB-TE data planes, including data plane OAM - the > ID should be sent to these SDOs with an appropriate liaison. > > IEEE 802.1 is also doing PBB / PBB-TE MIBs and ITU SG 4 is > responsible for the management of SDH / SONET / WDM networks, so > any new management requirements that this ID identifies, will be > relevant to the purview of these SDOs > > Regards > > Don > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:33 AM > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds > > > Hi, > > In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. > Please > give your opinions: > > 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt > This is a partner draft to draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te- > extension-00.txt > The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several > questions of > detail were raised. > Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not > change the > mechanism. > > 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt > This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co- > authors, so > we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please > voice your > opinions loud and clear. > > Thanks, > Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:23:22 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:22:32 -0500 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Thread-Index: Acfdv+WSbB4FRABiRwq9v+vOAO/hcgByk0fg From: "O'Connor, Don" To: "Adrian Farrel" , Adrian I do not believe that draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt = should be a work group document until two clarifications / improvements = are made to the current text, and we have agreement that the = requirements specification will be socialized with ITU and IEEE 802.1 by = way of an appropriate liaison. The two changes to the text that I = request are 1) In Section 1 Introduction, please change the sentence "This document describes requirements for data plane operations and = management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) = networks" to "This document describes requirements for control plane operations and = management (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) = networks. It also describes OAM requirements associated with the = interaction between the GMPLS Control Plane and Data Plane OAM." 2) In Section 4 General Requirements, please change the sentence "The general requirements described in this section are based on those = described for point-to-point MPLS in [RFC4377]." to "For MPLS-TE/GMPLS networks, the general requirements described in this = section are based on those described for point-to-point MPLS in = [RFC4377]." Considering that ITU SG 15 has responsibility for SDH / SONET and WDM = data planes and IEEE 802.1 has responsibility for the 802.1ah PBB and = 802.1ay PBB-TE data planes, including data plane OAM - the ID should be = sent to these SDOs with an appropriate liaison.=20 IEEE 802.1 is also doing PBB / PBB-TE MIBs and ITU SG 4 is responsible = for the management of SDH / SONET / WDM networks, so any new management = requirements that this ID identifies, will be relevant to the purview of = these SDOs Regards Don=20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:33 AM To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Hi, In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Please = give your opinions: 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt This is a partner draft to = draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several questions = of=20 detail were raised. Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change = the=20 mechanism. 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co-authors, = so=20 we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice = your=20 opinions loud and clear. Thanks, Adrian=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:00:40 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Ready to send MLN liaison? Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:58:07 -0500 Message-ID: <449B2580D802A443A923DABF3EAB82AF0ED51F96@OCCLUST04EVS1.ugd.att.com> Thread-Topic: Ready to send MLN liaison? Thread-Index: AcffQ7TXSUSJhB+DSfuJUTsGTsMu+gAP1IqA From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" To: "Adrian Farrel" , Hi Adrian, Considering several items are questions related to multilayer and multidomain, may want to add that the mln-reqs authors have updated the scope to include Section 3.3's discussion and reference to RFC4726. Another reference which may be of interest to Q14 is RFC4655 which discusses PCE multilayer-multidomain. Suggest on item 1 to add: "Note, this document references RFC4726 for interconnection of MRN/MLN TE domains (refer to updated Section 1 and Section 3.3). Another RFC of possible interest on multilayer-multidomain discusion is RFC4655 (PCE)." Deborah =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:50 AM To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Ready to send MLN liaison? Hi, We now have both I-Ds (reqs and eval) ready to share with the ITU. We also have a draft liaison that has been discussed a bit on the list and=20 in private. I want to make sure that you are all happy with the text before I go ahead. I think I have incorporated the thrust of Igor's comments, but I may not have got the balance quite right. The main point seems to hinge on the=20 interpretation of the word "potential". While I agree with Igor that the virtual TE-link is advertised in the client layer *exactly* like a real=20 TE-link, it is nevertheless not really there - it is only potenially there,=20 and an attempt to use it may fail because the server layer LSPs may fail to=20 be set up. At the same time, the server layer LSPs (trails) that would=20 support the virtual TE-link are only potential, so we can also say that the=20 connectivity in the server layer is potential. I have changed the wording to=20 reflect potential connectivity in both layers. The finer distinction that Igor makes between "potential connectivity" in=20 the client layer and a "potential connection" in the server layer is useful,=20 and I have tried to incorporate it. The changes are in the answers to: - point 5 - Q1-a - Q1-b - Q1-c Cheers, Adrian =3D=3D=3D >From : IETF CCAMP Working Group To : ITU-T Study Group 15 Question 14 For : Action Deadline : 20 September 2007 Subject : Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networking The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your liaison titled "Follow up Liaison Statement to IETF CCAMP on Multi-Layer Networking" generated from your May 2007 interim meeting. This communication provides answers and explanations in response to the comments and questions that your liaison raised. As previously indicated, the CCAMP working group is ready to hold a working group last call on these two Internet-Drafts. However, in view of your comments and interest in this work we are delaying this last call to allow you to consider our responses and to provide further comments during your September interim meeting. Any additional comments that you supply will be treated as working group last call comments and handled accordingly. Working Group last call will complete on 21 September 2007 at 12 noon GMT. Please ensure that any comments are received by the IETF before that time. The latest copies of the drafts concerned can be found at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.t xt and http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.t xt draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs "1. General - Does this draft apply only to single service provider or do you envision it applying when there are multiple service providers? The ASON model (G.8080) allows for many different configurations of multilayer networks ranging from a single provider administering all layers and regions to a different provider per layer or region to several providers per layer or region. If two layers are under different administrative domains because they belong to two different providers, the amount of information that can be shared between the two domains is more limited than in the case where a single provider network provides resources at all layers." A customer network may be provided on top of the GMPLS-based multi-region/multi-layer network. It is indeed a strong motivator for the deployment of multi-region/multi-layer networks as described in Section 3.2 of the draft. This draft is, however, scoped to the assumption that the control plane and the data plane are under the responsibility of a single service provider and so constitute a single administrative domain. The MRN/MLN suite of documents makes no assumptions concerning the interfaces with other domains (e.g. UNI, E-NNI). In particular, the specific problem examined within the CCAMP MRN/MLN work is the integration of multiple network layers (that may be from different regions) within the same administrative domain. Requirements for multiple network layers under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. It should be noted that the term region used in the MRN/MLN suite of documents is as per IETF definition (see RFC4206). The statement will be added to Section 1 to articulate that this draft is scoped to the requirements for multi-layer networks under a single control plane and that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. "2. Section 3 - There is an example of several layers of a TDM region. The addition of a VCAT layer example would be more complete. For example, VC-4-7v." Thank you for this suggestion. We have integrated this example into the I-D. "3. Section 3.1 - The last paragraph mentions discontinuity when crossing a region boundary. We would like to point out that the ASON model does not have control plane discontinuity when crossing a region boundary as there are call controllers at each layer. Call controllers at both ends of adaptation into a server (lower) layer communicate with each other." There may be some misunderstanding of the term "discontinuity". In the context of this section of the draft, "discontinuity" indicates that it may not be possible to simply forward the signaling message (i.e. RSVP-TE Path message) from a node in one layer to a node in the next layer (even when stitching or 1:1 multiplexing is used) because there is a necessary change in some of the signaling objects (for example, the representation of bandwidth) at region boundaries. We may solve the discontinuity issue in a method similar to that of ASON by using triggered signaling or any of the other mechanisms described in this document. To help clear up the misunderstanding, the last paragraph of Section 3.1 will be rephrased. "4. Section 5.3 - Scalability problems can be minimized by the use of TED per region in case they are under separate administration or for scalability reason." It is correct to note that the use of a separate TED per region can improve the scalability. However, part of the objective of the MRN/MLN work is to allow full visibility from each network node into all participating layers/regions. Splitting the TED will not reduce the amount of information stored or flooded within the network. Indeed, as multiple switching capabilities can be advertised in a single TE-link advertisement, the total number of entries in a TED should not differ much from a single layer network (although each entry may be a little larger). Furthermore, the number of TE-link advertisements should not differ much from a single layer network (although each advertisement may be slightly larger), thus not putting additional strain on the routing protocol flooding process. No scalability problems have been identified. Section 5.3 will be further clarified. "5. Section 5.8.2 - Virtual TE-links - We can think of two different models and are not sure which one is implied in this document. The first one is that a virtual TE-link represents server (lower) layer potential connectivity. The second one is that a virtual TE-link represents client (upper) layer potential connectivity. The first one requires knowledge of the adaptation capabilities by the client (upper) layer. The second does not require any knowledge of the adaptation capabilities or even the existence of the server (lower) layer and should also be a valid configuration. The second option may be required, for example, when the different layers are administered by different entities." The virtual TE-link represents potential client layer connectivity that may be achieved through potential server layer connections. The client layer connectivity is potential because the TE-link does not actually exist (event though it is treated in the client layer exactly as though it does exist). The server layer connections are potential because the LSPs necessary to support the TE-link have not been set up. It may be helpful to recap some terminology. A TE-link is (as discussed in the GMPLS/ASON lexicography set out in RFC 4397) a logical routing element that allows path selection to be decoupled from resource assignment. Thus a TE-link is associated with one or more data links. This is equivalent to an SNPP link. A TE-link in one layer may, of course, be achieved by one or more LSPs in a lower layer. That is, an LSP in one layer may form a data link in an upper layer. A virtual TE-link (again referencing RFC 4397) is a TE-link associated with zero data links. It is the potential for a TE- link, that may be used in path computation on the assumption that, if it is used, an attempt will be made dynamically to create the necessary data link(s). That is, to signal an LSP in a lower layer, to designate the LSP as a data link in the upper layer, and to assign the data link to the TE-link. Thus, the virtual TE-link is dynamically converted into an actual TE-link. Advertisement of the virtual TE-link is dependent (just as with a real TE-link) on the adaptation capabilities at the end points. As far as client layer network is concerned, there is no difference between virtual and real TE-links. In both cases the TE-link is connectivity in the client layer, but (clearly) with a virtual TE-link, although the connectivity is advertised as if it is real, it is only potential. The principal difference between a real TE-link and a virtual TE-link is that the server layer network resources are not tied up when the virtual TE-link is not in use, and that the signaling process of the client layer LSP might fail if the virtual TE-link cannot be realized (i.e., if the server layer LSPs cannot be set up). "6. Section 4.2 - The last paragraph mentions that TE-link advertisements may need to provide information about the node's internal adaptation capabilities in order to perform layer border node functions. It might be worth clarifying the instances where this is required versus not required. For example, if virtual TE-links are used to represent the client (upper) layer connectivity, it is not necessary to advertise internal adaptation capabilities." There is no difference with respect to real or virtual TE- links in this regard, and all TE-links (virtual or otherwise) must be considered with regard to their switching types and the adaptation capabilities of their end points. The adaptation capability, enables a node to discriminate the remote nodes (and thus allows their selection during a multi- region path computation) with respect to their adaptation capability. i.e., their capability to terminate LSPs at a given region. Please see also RFC4397 for adaptation capability definitions. draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval "1. Section 4.1.1.2 - Setting up virtual TE-links. We would like to understand why the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically. In terms of scalability, could a virtual TE-link (assuming it represents server (lower) layer resources) be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? It is not clear from the draft whether this is allowed or not but we think it is essential in developing a scalable solution. In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, the identifier would have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer." First of all, please note again that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. Advertising the virtual TE-link into the "client" network, which is under different administrative domain, is out of scope of this document. The above question may be separated into three sub-questions as follows; Q1-a) Why do the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically? A1-a) It would be possible to automatically discover all potential connections across the lower layer network and to advertise a full mesh of virtual TE-links. However, we believe that this scenario is unlikely to meet with the requirements of service providers who will want to apply their own operational policies. Such operational policies effectively install a management function (e.g., VNT Manager) between the analysis of the lower layer potential connections, and the advertisement of virtual TE-links. However, nothing precludes from a policy of discovering and advertising such a full mesh. Q1-b) Could a virtual TE-link be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? A1-b) In general, data link identifiers can be autogenerated and "discovered" through information exchange between adjacent nodes. TE-link identifiers can similarly be autogenerated, and exchanged and associated with data links. This, however, presupposes the existence of the data links when the TE-links are created. The virtual TE-link represents potential connectivity (as discussed for point 5, above), but does not have a server layer trail (i.e., a client layer data link) committed. The virtual TE-links must still be advertised so that they can be use in path computation. Virtual TE- link identifiers are assigned at both end points. They are logical identifiers and are not necessarily identical to any identifiers associated with the real physical interfaces. They may be picked from a local pool of identifiers at both end points and exchanged between the the end points. On the other hand, assigning the identifier associated with a real physical interface to the virtual TE-link is not precluded. Clearly configuration (manual or through an automated process such as the Virtual Network Topology Manager) may provide this information in this case. The use of LMP for exchange of information for virtual TE-links is for future study. Q1-c) In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, would the identifier have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer? A1-c) As described in A1-b), the identifier of the virtual TE-link could be associated with a real physical interface. Note, however, that many virtual TE-links could exist where there is the physical capacity for only one server layer tail at any time. It may be convenient to assign each virtual TE-link a different identifier. "2. Section 4.1.1.3 - Traffic disruption minimization during FA release. In case disruption is required in the server (lower) layer, we think there is also an option to signal to the adaptation points and let them re-establish the server (lower) layer as opposed to rely on the head-end LSRs in the client (upper) layer." Section 4.1.1.3 does not specify nor preclude any mechanism to deal with traffic disruption. In the context of the MRN/MLN, upper layer LSPs may be routed over FAs. For reasons outside the scope of these documents, an FA may need to be released or rerouted. This may have a disruptive effect on the LSPs using this FA in the sense that this would induce a route change of these upper layer LSPs. Only the head-end LSR of an (FA-)LSP is responsible for re-routing or releasing FA-LSPs. As such head-end LSRs ("adaptation points" as stated in the question) are responsible for rerouting/releasing FA-LSPs and head-end LSRs of the upper layer LSPs are responsible for rerouting the LSPs they control. The adaptation points can NOT take responsibility for rerouting upper layers LSPs over other (newly established or not) FAs if they are not head-end LSRs of the upper-layer LSPs but only intermediate LSRs for these LSPs The data link created in an upper layer by an FA LSP may be a protected data link (in the meaning of link level protection - see RFC 3471). This link level protection may be achieved by end-to-end protection of the FA LSP, or through any other LSP protection scheme including LSP restoration. This case seems to match what you have described, but note that the process of switching traffic (i.e. the nested LSP) from one FA LSP to another is likely to cause a small traffic hit in all but packet/frame technologies. We would like to thank you for your detailed enquiry into this topic, and hope that you feel that the discussion has been fruitful. Best regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel IETF CCAMP Co-chairs Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:33:52 +0000 Message-ID: <02da01c7df5a$04c07180$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" Cc: Subject: Re: Proposed CCAMP recharter Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:33:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Julien, > I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't > control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a "connection- > oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not supported by > typical "Ethernet switches". OK. I'll modify the text I just suggested to Dimitri, to say "connection-oriented" > On the other hand, (echoing Dimitri again) > we are also considering Ethernet services over any GMPLS-controlled > layer. Agree. But don't think we need milestones. > I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones (unlike > the > charter which has a more long-term value). I tend to agree, but I suspect that the IESG will find it hard to approve a re-charter with dates that have been passed. Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:33:14 +0000 Message-ID: <02d901c7df59$c309a0e0$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , Cc: Subject: Re: Proposed CCAMP recharter Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:27:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dimitri, Thanks for comments: > - MRN req + eval. should imho be ready by end Aug. Sure. But by the time we have been through WG last call and done the updates :-( > - concerning the i/w document i'd like to suggest referring to MPLS-TE > (rather than MPLS) since applying only to RSVP-TE Right. As reflected in the actual names of the I-Ds. > - also you refer to a solution for the latter but we just have req. and a > framework since so far -> are u sure solution would be ready by Sep'07 > or alternatively the former doc shall be split and further discussed I'll strike "and solutions" from the milestone. > we need also a milestone for input to the MPLS security doc. but not sure > this has to be recorded Do we need a specific milestone for this? The work is being done in the MPLS WG with consultation to CCAMP. I think this is just a case of CCAMP needing to review proactively and reactively, and needing to generate text according to what we find. > concerning the charter, two specific comments > > - like also mentioned during the second meeting, clarifying the term > Ethernet types would be suggested otherwise entering in an open-ended > discussion about what is allowed/not allowed, desired/not-desired, > possible/not possible, etc. and probably focus on the analytical work here > (something we should have probably done in the GELS context but did not > happen) - side note here it was always felt useful to have operational use > case described as well but that work did also never happen OK, so you'd like the charter to reflect something of the rules of engagement that we set out in GELS? In that case, we will need to add a specific item to the list of scope topics in the charter. - Work on procedures and extensions to GMPLS for the control of Ethernet devices for data planes that are already approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE. Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data planes is out of scope. > - is this milestone also including Ethernet service signaling e.g. MEF ? > in that case i would suggest to make a clear distinction here ? Some work, I think, is within scope and does not need a specific milestone. We don't need to introduce milestones for every I-D. Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:52:42 +0000 Message-ID: <029c01c7df43$31db7fa0$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Ready to send MLN liaison? Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:50:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, We now have both I-Ds (reqs and eval) ready to share with the ITU. We also have a draft liaison that has been discussed a bit on the list and in private. I want to make sure that you are all happy with the text before I go ahead. I think I have incorporated the thrust of Igor's comments, but I may not have got the balance quite right. The main point seems to hinge on the interpretation of the word "potential". While I agree with Igor that the virtual TE-link is advertised in the client layer *exactly* like a real TE-link, it is nevertheless not really there - it is only potenially there, and an attempt to use it may fail because the server layer LSPs may fail to be set up. At the same time, the server layer LSPs (trails) that would support the virtual TE-link are only potential, so we can also say that the connectivity in the server layer is potential. I have changed the wording to reflect potential connectivity in both layers. The finer distinction that Igor makes between "potential connectivity" in the client layer and a "potential connection" in the server layer is useful, and I have tried to incorporate it. The changes are in the answers to: - point 5 - Q1-a - Q1-b - Q1-c Cheers, Adrian === >From : IETF CCAMP Working Group To : ITU-T Study Group 15 Question 14 For : Action Deadline : 20 September 2007 Subject : Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networking The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your liaison titled "Follow up Liaison Statement to IETF CCAMP on Multi-Layer Networking" generated from your May 2007 interim meeting. This communication provides answers and explanations in response to the comments and questions that your liaison raised. As previously indicated, the CCAMP working group is ready to hold a working group last call on these two Internet-Drafts. However, in view of your comments and interest in this work we are delaying this last call to allow you to consider our responses and to provide further comments during your September interim meeting. Any additional comments that you supply will be treated as working group last call comments and handled accordingly. Working Group last call will complete on 21 September 2007 at 12 noon GMT. Please ensure that any comments are received by the IETF before that time. The latest copies of the drafts concerned can be found at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt and http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.txt draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs "1. General - Does this draft apply only to single service provider or do you envision it applying when there are multiple service providers? The ASON model (G.8080) allows for many different configurations of multilayer networks ranging from a single provider administering all layers and regions to a different provider per layer or region to several providers per layer or region. If two layers are under different administrative domains because they belong to two different providers, the amount of information that can be shared between the two domains is more limited than in the case where a single provider network provides resources at all layers." A customer network may be provided on top of the GMPLS-based multi-region/multi-layer network. It is indeed a strong motivator for the deployment of multi-region/multi-layer networks as described in Section 3.2 of the draft. This draft is, however, scoped to the assumption that the control plane and the data plane are under the responsibility of a single service provider and so constitute a single administrative domain. The MRN/MLN suite of documents makes no assumptions concerning the interfaces with other domains (e.g. UNI, E-NNI). In particular, the specific problem examined within the CCAMP MRN/MLN work is the integration of multiple network layers (that may be from different regions) within the same administrative domain. Requirements for multiple network layers under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. It should be noted that the term region used in the MRN/MLN suite of documents is as per IETF definition (see RFC4206). The statement will be added to Section 1 to articulate that this draft is scoped to the requirements for multi-layer networks under a single control plane and that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. "2. Section 3 - There is an example of several layers of a TDM region. The addition of a VCAT layer example would be more complete. For example, VC-4-7v." Thank you for this suggestion. We have integrated this example into the I-D. "3. Section 3.1 - The last paragraph mentions discontinuity when crossing a region boundary. We would like to point out that the ASON model does not have control plane discontinuity when crossing a region boundary as there are call controllers at each layer. Call controllers at both ends of adaptation into a server (lower) layer communicate with each other." There may be some misunderstanding of the term "discontinuity". In the context of this section of the draft, "discontinuity" indicates that it may not be possible to simply forward the signaling message (i.e. RSVP-TE Path message) from a node in one layer to a node in the next layer (even when stitching or 1:1 multiplexing is used) because there is a necessary change in some of the signaling objects (for example, the representation of bandwidth) at region boundaries. We may solve the discontinuity issue in a method similar to that of ASON by using triggered signaling or any of the other mechanisms described in this document. To help clear up the misunderstanding, the last paragraph of Section 3.1 will be rephrased. "4. Section 5.3 - Scalability problems can be minimized by the use of TED per region in case they are under separate administration or for scalability reason." It is correct to note that the use of a separate TED per region can improve the scalability. However, part of the objective of the MRN/MLN work is to allow full visibility from each network node into all participating layers/regions. Splitting the TED will not reduce the amount of information stored or flooded within the network. Indeed, as multiple switching capabilities can be advertised in a single TE-link advertisement, the total number of entries in a TED should not differ much from a single layer network (although each entry may be a little larger). Furthermore, the number of TE-link advertisements should not differ much from a single layer network (although each advertisement may be slightly larger), thus not putting additional strain on the routing protocol flooding process. No scalability problems have been identified. Section 5.3 will be further clarified. "5. Section 5.8.2 - Virtual TE-links - We can think of two different models and are not sure which one is implied in this document. The first one is that a virtual TE-link represents server (lower) layer potential connectivity. The second one is that a virtual TE-link represents client (upper) layer potential connectivity. The first one requires knowledge of the adaptation capabilities by the client (upper) layer. The second does not require any knowledge of the adaptation capabilities or even the existence of the server (lower) layer and should also be a valid configuration. The second option may be required, for example, when the different layers are administered by different entities." The virtual TE-link represents potential client layer connectivity that may be achieved through potential server layer connections. The client layer connectivity is potential because the TE-link does not actually exist (event though it is treated in the client layer exactly as though it does exist). The server layer connections are potential because the LSPs necessary to support the TE-link have not been set up. It may be helpful to recap some terminology. A TE-link is (as discussed in the GMPLS/ASON lexicography set out in RFC 4397) a logical routing element that allows path selection to be decoupled from resource assignment. Thus a TE-link is associated with one or more data links. This is equivalent to an SNPP link. A TE-link in one layer may, of course, be achieved by one or more LSPs in a lower layer. That is, an LSP in one layer may form a data link in an upper layer. A virtual TE-link (again referencing RFC 4397) is a TE-link associated with zero data links. It is the potential for a TE- link, that may be used in path computation on the assumption that, if it is used, an attempt will be made dynamically to create the necessary data link(s). That is, to signal an LSP in a lower layer, to designate the LSP as a data link in the upper layer, and to assign the data link to the TE-link. Thus, the virtual TE-link is dynamically converted into an actual TE-link. Advertisement of the virtual TE-link is dependent (just as with a real TE-link) on the adaptation capabilities at the end points. As far as client layer network is concerned, there is no difference between virtual and real TE-links. In both cases the TE-link is connectivity in the client layer, but (clearly) with a virtual TE-link, although the connectivity is advertised as if it is real, it is only potential. The principal difference between a real TE-link and a virtual TE-link is that the server layer network resources are not tied up when the virtual TE-link is not in use, and that the signaling process of the client layer LSP might fail if the virtual TE-link cannot be realized (i.e., if the server layer LSPs cannot be set up). "6. Section 4.2 - The last paragraph mentions that TE-link advertisements may need to provide information about the node's internal adaptation capabilities in order to perform layer border node functions. It might be worth clarifying the instances where this is required versus not required. For example, if virtual TE-links are used to represent the client (upper) layer connectivity, it is not necessary to advertise internal adaptation capabilities." There is no difference with respect to real or virtual TE- links in this regard, and all TE-links (virtual or otherwise) must be considered with regard to their switching types and the adaptation capabilities of their end points. The adaptation capability, enables a node to discriminate the remote nodes (and thus allows their selection during a multi- region path computation) with respect to their adaptation capability. i.e., their capability to terminate LSPs at a given region. Please see also RFC4397 for adaptation capability definitions. draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval "1. Section 4.1.1.2 - Setting up virtual TE-links. We would like to understand why the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically. In terms of scalability, could a virtual TE-link (assuming it represents server (lower) layer resources) be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? It is not clear from the draft whether this is allowed or not but we think it is essential in developing a scalable solution. In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, the identifier would have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer." First of all, please note again that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. Advertising the virtual TE-link into the "client" network, which is under different administrative domain, is out of scope of this document. The above question may be separated into three sub-questions as follows; Q1-a) Why do the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically? A1-a) It would be possible to automatically discover all potential connections across the lower layer network and to advertise a full mesh of virtual TE-links. However, we believe that this scenario is unlikely to meet with the requirements of service providers who will want to apply their own operational policies. Such operational policies effectively install a management function (e.g., VNT Manager) between the analysis of the lower layer potential connections, and the advertisement of virtual TE-links. However, nothing precludes from a policy of discovering and advertising such a full mesh. Q1-b) Could a virtual TE-link be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? A1-b) In general, data link identifiers can be autogenerated and "discovered" through information exchange between adjacent nodes. TE-link identifiers can similarly be autogenerated, and exchanged and associated with data links. This, however, presupposes the existence of the data links when the TE-links are created. The virtual TE-link represents potential connectivity (as discussed for point 5, above), but does not have a server layer trail (i.e., a client layer data link) committed. The virtual TE-links must still be advertised so that they can be use in path computation. Virtual TE- link identifiers are assigned at both end points. They are logical identifiers and are not necessarily identical to any identifiers associated with the real physical interfaces. They may be picked from a local pool of identifiers at both end points and exchanged between the the end points. On the other hand, assigning the identifier associated with a real physical interface to the virtual TE-link is not precluded. Clearly configuration (manual or through an automated process such as the Virtual Network Topology Manager) may provide this information in this case. The use of LMP for exchange of information for virtual TE-links is for future study. Q1-c) In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, would the identifier have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer? A1-c) As described in A1-b), the identifier of the virtual TE-link could be associated with a real physical interface. Note, however, that many virtual TE-links could exist where there is the physical capacity for only one server layer tail at any time. It may be convenient to assign each virtual TE-link a different identifier. "2. Section 4.1.1.3 - Traffic disruption minimization during FA release. In case disruption is required in the server (lower) layer, we think there is also an option to signal to the adaptation points and let them re-establish the server (lower) layer as opposed to rely on the head-end LSRs in the client (upper) layer." Section 4.1.1.3 does not specify nor preclude any mechanism to deal with traffic disruption. In the context of the MRN/MLN, upper layer LSPs may be routed over FAs. For reasons outside the scope of these documents, an FA may need to be released or rerouted. This may have a disruptive effect on the LSPs using this FA in the sense that this would induce a route change of these upper layer LSPs. Only the head-end LSR of an (FA-)LSP is responsible for re-routing or releasing FA-LSPs. As such head-end LSRs ("adaptation points" as stated in the question) are responsible for rerouting/releasing FA-LSPs and head-end LSRs of the upper layer LSPs are responsible for rerouting the LSPs they control. The adaptation points can NOT take responsibility for rerouting upper layers LSPs over other (newly established or not) FAs if they are not head-end LSRs of the upper-layer LSPs but only intermediate LSRs for these LSPs The data link created in an upper layer by an FA LSP may be a protected data link (in the meaning of link level protection - see RFC 3471). This link level protection may be achieved by end-to-end protection of the FA LSP, or through any other LSP protection scheme including LSP restoration. This case seems to match what you have described, but note that the process of switching traffic (i.e. the nested LSP) from one FA LSP to another is likely to cause a small traffic hit in all but packet/frame technologies. We would like to thank you for your detailed enquiry into this topic, and hope that you feel that the discussion has been fruitful. Best regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel IETF CCAMP Co-chairs Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:11:11 +0000 Message-ID: <46C252AC.9020702@kddilabs.jp> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:11:08 +0900 From: Tomohiro Otani User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: MPLS 2007 International Conference - October 28-31, Washington DC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are invited to attend the MPLS 2007 International Conference to be held in Washington, DC from October 28-31, 2007. The 4-day event consists of technical sessions, tutorials, panel discussions, and exhibits. Program details are available at: www.mpls2007.com Important Dates: ------------------------ - Early Registration Rate Cut-off Date: August 20, 2007 - Tutorials: Sunday, October 28 - Technical Sessions: Monday-Wednesday, October 29-31 - Exhibits: Monday, October 29 - Wednesday, October 31 - 8th Public Interoperability Demonstration: November 1, 11:00 am Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:02:55 +0000 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:59:34 +0800 From: Dan Li Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-id: <00aa01c7ded7$8b88ed10$414d460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Yes to both I-Ds. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 11:33 PM Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds > Hi, > > In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Please > give your opinions: > > 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt > This is a partner draft to draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt > The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several questions of > detail were raised. > Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change the > mechanism. > > 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt > This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co-authors, so > we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice your > opinions loud and clear. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:39:39 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Subject: Submissions for "Next-Generation Carrier Ethernet Transport Technologies":Special Issue IEEE Comm. Mag. Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:38:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=556; t=1187127484; x=1187991484; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=tnadeau@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Thomas=20D.=20Nadeau=22=20 |Subject:=20Submissions=20for=20=20=22Next-Generation=20Carrier=20Etherne t=20Transport=20Technologies=22=3ASpecial=20Issue=20IEEE=20Comm.=20Mag. |Sender:=20 |To:=20ccamp@ops.ietf.org; bh=54ycFGI0+gwPkAK9q/vKErvoHWHudi1hP9NL6yq0YTE=; b=ApDrwFbqgTG7e1N6sNYAvsArD6w6RW1rykkE+QGwNLMNVjAL9YWr20FCLBPlVY8Hg/vCjBro g9rrlj6eBsF++1S9kEe+wBrHxxGo/3SFICFJsr/v9TptRZIgCEHAx7q1; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=tnadeau@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); Dear Colleagues, This is a note to request those who have submitted articles for the above special issue via the IEEE Manuscript Central, to please **also write** to the Guest Editors, letting us know that you have submitted your article (and, please include the ack. email from the IEEE system, if you could). This will help us consolidate information on all submissions, ensure that no submission is missed, and get all of them reviewed. Again, many thanks for your support of this special issue! Best regards, -Vishal, Tom and Ashwin Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:16:22 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:15:02 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Description of the RSVP-TE Graceful Restart Procedures Author(s) : D. Li, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2007-8-14 The Hello message for the Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) has been defined to establish and maintain basic signaling node adjacencies for Label Switching Routers (LSRs) participating in a Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) traffic engineered (TE) network. The Hello message has been extended for use in Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) network for state recovery of control channel or nodal faults. GMPLS protocol definitions for RSVP also allow a restarting node to learn the label that it previously allocated for use on a Label Switching Path (LSP). Further RSVP protocol extensions have been defined to enable a restarting node to recover full control plane state by exchanging RSVP messages with its upstream and downstream neighbors. This document provides an informational clarification of the control plane procedures for a GMPLS network when there are multiple node failures, and describes how full control plane state can be recovered in different scenarios where the order in which the nodes restart is different. This document does not define any new processes or procedures. All protocol mechanisms are already defined in the referenced documents. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-14150558.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-14150558.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:15:36 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:15:01 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Requirements for GMPLS-based multi-region and multi-layer networks (MRN/MLN) Author(s) : K. Shiomoto, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2007-8-14 Most of the initial efforts to utilize Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) have been related to environments hosting devices with a single switching capability. The complexity raised by the control of such data planes is similar to that seen in classical IP/MPLS networks. By extending MPLS to support multiple switching technologies, GMPLS provides a comprehensive framework for the control of a multi-layered network of either a single switching technology or multiple switching technologies. In GMPLS, a switching technology domain defines a region, and a network of multiple switching types is referred to in this document as a Multi-Region Network (MRN). When referring in general to a layered network, which may consist of either a single or multiple regions, this document uses the term, Multi-Layer Network (MLN). This document defines a framework for GMPLS based multi-region/multi-layer networks and lists a set of functional requirements. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-14144716.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-14144716.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:52:11 +0000 Message-ID: <46C1F956.4000407@grotto-networking.com> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:49:58 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes to both. Greg B. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. > Please give your opinions: > > 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt > This is a partner draft to > draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt > The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several > questions of detail were raised. > Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change > the mechanism. > > 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt > This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both > co-authors, so we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. > So please voice your opinions loud and clear. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:52:08 +0000 Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:50:44 -0500 From: Young Lee Subject: RE: Polling for two new working group I-Ds To: 'Adrian Farrel' , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-id: <000c01c7de8a$e022f930$7d0c7c0a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: Acfdv6A6LfPL5ne4TD+Loj/BlmdswAAyzHFQ I support both ID's. Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:33 AM To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Hi, In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Please give your opinions: 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt This is a partner draft to draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several questions of detail were raised. Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change the mechanism. 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co-authors, so we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice your opinions loud and clear. Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:24:48 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JP Vasseur Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:22:11 -0400 To: "Adrian Farrel" DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=821; t=1187101367; x=1187965367; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Polling=20for=20two=20new=20working=20group=20I-Ds |Sender:=20; bh=UeZ9jgX0+NxNdp8UzGNtng9Eefm4m/HjfvIWaB8T/5M=; b=rpsb6SCsxv7Hg6EQEFO21ctq7mcC0kOuSWk2JnIxcNLkuOETS8jnetcC0R+8A5lhHRLJka03 2fFmjuVzRm6gTdyKQubfLuqnUUPyXl6dku4hLq2rPycNRsz37lRtFHMU; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); Hi, On Aug 13, 2007, at 11:33 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. > Please give your opinions: > > 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt > This is a partner draft to draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te- > extension-00.txt > The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several > questions of detail were raised. > Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not > change the mechanism. > Yes. > 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt > This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co- > authors, so we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. > So please voice your opinions loud and clear. > Yes. Thanks. JP. > Thanks, > Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:59:24 +0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20070814095609.06b33eb0@mailsv4.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:57:55 +0900 To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Wataru Imajuku Subject: Re: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Adrian Yes to all. Best Regards Wataru At 00:33 07/08/14, Adrian Farrel wrote: >Hi, > >In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Please give your opinions: > >1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt >This is a partner draft to draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt >The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several questions of detail were raised. >Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change the mechanism. > >2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt >This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co-authors, so we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice your opinions loud and clear. > >Thanks, >Adrian ------------------------------------- Wataru Imajuku@NTT Network Innovation Labs TEL: +81-46-859-4315 FAX: +81-46-859-5541 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:17:37 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt Message-Id: Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:15:01 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Requirements for GMPLS-based multi-region and multi-layer networks (MRN/MLN) Author(s) : K. Shiomoto, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2007-8-13 Most of the initial efforts to utilize Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) have been related to environments hosting devices with a single switching capability. The complexity raised by the control of such data planes is similar to that seen in classical IP/MPLS networks. By extending MPLS to support multiple switching technologies, GMPLS provides a comprehensive framework for the control of a multi-layered network of either a single switching technology or multiple switching technologies. In GMPLS, a switching technology domain defines a region, and a network of multiple switching types is referred to in this document as a Multi-Region Network (MRN). When referring in general to a layered network, which may consist of either a single or multiple regions, this document uses the term, Multi-Layer Network (MLN). This document defines a framework for GMPLS based multi- region/multi-layer networks and lists a set of functional requirements. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-13140615.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-13140615.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:35:03 +0000 Message-ID: <02aa01c7ddbf$63bcad30$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Polling for two new working group I-Ds Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:33:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, In Chicago we considered the possibility of two new CCAMP drafts. Please give your opinions: 1. draft-chen-ccamp-isis-interas-te-extension-00.txt This is a partner draft to draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-00.txt The draft was discussed at the ISIS working group and several questions of detail were raised. Thus, accepting this I-D now, does not imply that we would not change the mechanism. 2. draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt This work is a charter milestone, and Deborah and I are both co-authors, so we are likely to be influenced in favour of adoption. So please voice your opinions loud and clear. Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:06:54 +0000 Message-ID: <026c01c7ddbb$353f4430$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Cc: "Ross Callon" , , "Scott Bradner" Subject: Updated Draft liaison #4 - GMPLS Calls Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:04:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for comments on and off the list. Here is an update. It is in response to https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file450.doc Plan to send it on 18th August, so comments before then. Thanks, Adrian and Deborah == To: ITU-T Q14/15 From: IETF CCAMP In Response Subject: In answer to your questions on GMPLS Calls The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your continued correspondence on GMPLS Calls. Please note that "Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in Support of Calls" has now been published as RFC 4974 available from http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4974.txt. In your liaison 'Reply to IETF CCAMP Liaison "GMPLS Calls"' produced at your June plenary in Geneva you raise two points. 1. "Call identifiers. Please note that G.7713.x series has a call identifier format. For G.7713.2, this is described in RFC3474 and has RSVP class num of 230." Thank you for this pointer. We are aware that a number of applications require different call identifier formats (or Long Form Call Identifiers in the language of RFC 4974). For this reason, RFC 4974 is careful to place no restrictions on the form of the call identifier, and we expect that ASON call identifiers can be carried in GMPLS Call messages. 2. "Specifying the destination of a call in ASON is done with a UNI Transport Resource identifier (G.8080 section 10.2). For G.7713.2, this is described in RFC3476 as a Transport Network Address (TNA) and has RSVP class num of 229. We suggest that an equivalent should be included in a future ASON applicability draft." Thank you, again. RFC 4974 (and, indeed, the whole of the GMPLS architecture) is predicated on the use of IP addresses, so that we expect Call Controllers and connection end-points to be IP-addressable. However, we understand that Call Controllers and their associated applications may wish to exchange transparent information (such as TNAs) that is used in the context of those applications, for example to derive IP addressing information and to identify resources or applications. In view of this, we expect that a generic end-point identifier object will be defined for inclusion in the GMPLS Call messages (with sub-types to indicate the address family) when the first application that needs them is documented. At the moment, it looks as though the first such application will be ASON, and we expect work to resume on the ASON applicability draft in the latter part of this year. Regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel Co-Chairs, IETF CCAMP Working Group Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:34:58 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7DD8C.D49AE813" Subject: New Version of Posting of draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:32:40 +0200 Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF6849C8BFC@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se> Thread-Topic: New Version of Posting of draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs Thread-Index: AcfdjOS/y/ToRcOrR16o491APvMFxQ== From: "Diego Caviglia (GA/ERI)" To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DD8C.D49AE813 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, A new version of the draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs has been published. =20 The new version has new co-author (Dave McDysan from Verizon) and some new text. =20 Comments are welcome. =20 BR =20 Diego ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DD8C.D49AE813 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

        A new = version of the draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs has been published.

 

The new version has new co-author (Dave McDysan from Verizon) and some new text.

 

Comments are welcome.

 

BR

 

Diego

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DD8C.D49AE813-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:33:54 +0000 Message-ID: <00cb01c7dced$96bf0750$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Non-member submission from [sob@harvard.edu (Scott O. Bradner)] Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:32:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk > Subject: Re: Darft liaison #4 - GMPLS Calls > Cc: CCamp@ops.ietf.org, dward@cisco.com, rcallon@juniper.net > In-Reply-To: <00a501c7dce4$3d1ddd10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> > Message-Id: <20070812141218.A5B2C486BC7@newdev.harvard.edu> > Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 10:12:18 -0400 (EDT) > From: sob@harvard.edu (Scott O. Bradner) > > > looks good but one suggestion >> We expect that a generic end-point >> identifier object will be defined ... > > might be good to say where this work would be done (and point to > any IDs if there are any) and give some indication of the timeframe > when it might be done > > Scott Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:42:39 +0000 Message-ID: <00b101c7dce6$82a72790$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , Cc: "Ross Callon" , , "Scott Bradner" Subject: Draft liaison #5 - ITU-T Optical Transport Networks Work Plan Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:40:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, In June this year, the ITU-T Study Group 15 sent us a revised copy of their work plan for Optical Transport Network topics. You can see their liaison and the work plan at https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file451.doc. You can cut straight to the work plan at http://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-t/oth/09/01/T09010000010001MSWE.doc. It is interesting to look through this plan to check for any overlap or conflict. Table 7-1-2 is a long list of IETF drafts and RFCs that are related to the work being done by SG15. In addition to periodic emails to notify SG15 of new RFCs, we also comment on the content of this table from time to time. At the moment I can see nothing in the work plan that requires immediate comment, but please check for yourselves if you are interested or concerned. Otherwise, I will send the following simple liaison on 18th August. Thanks, Adrian === To: ITU-T Q3/15 From: IETF CCAMP and PCE working groups In response Subject: Your OTNT Work Plan Thank you for continuing to share your OTNT work plan through your liaison from your June plenary in Geneva. I have made the IETF's CCAMP and PCE working groups aware of the work plan, and at this time we do not have any issues or concerns to raise resulting from the content of the plan. Please note that the publication of new RFCs related to the optical control plane are notified to SG15 through separate liaisons from time to time, and you may wish to update table 7-1-2 accordingly. Please keep us informed as your work plan evolves. Best regards, Adrian Farrel IETF Liaison to the ITU-T SG15 on Optical Control Plane Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:29:27 +0000 Message-ID: <00a501c7dce4$3d1ddd10$0300a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Cc: "Ross Callon" , , "Scott Bradner" Subject: Darft liaison #4 - GMPLS Calls Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:24:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Comments on this draft liaison please. It is in response to https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file450.doc Plan to send it on 18th August, so comments before then. Thanks, Adrian and Deborah == To: ITU-T Q14/15 From: IETF CCAMP In Response Subject: In answer to your questions on GMPLS Calls The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your continued correspondence on GMPLS Calls. Please note that "Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in Support of Calls" has now been published as RFC 4974 available from http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4974.txt. In your liaison 'Reply to IETF CCAMP Liaison "GMPLS Calls" produced at your June plenary in Geneva you raise two points. 1. "Call identifiers. Please note that G.7713.x series has a call identifier format. For G.7713.2, this is described in RFC3474 and has RSVP class num of 230." Thank you for this pointer. We are aware that a number of applications require different call identifier formats (or Long Form Call Identifiers in the language of RFC 4974). For this reason, RFC 4974 is careful to place no restrictions on the form of the call identifier, and we expect that ASON call identifiers can be carried in GMPLS Call messages. 2. "Specifying the destination of a call in ASON is done with a UNI Transport Resource identifier (G.8080 section 10.2). For G.7713.2, this is described in RFC3476 as a Transport Network Address (TNA) and has RSVP class num of 229. We suggest that an equivalent should be included in a future ASON applicability draft." Thank you, again. We are also aware that a number of applications may need to exchange information transparently between call controllers. We agree that the end-point identifier is such a piece of information, and that the address family may be specific to the application that the call is supporting (in this case ASON). We expect that a generic end-point identifier object will be defined for inclusion in the GMPLS Call messages (with sub-types to indicate the address family) when the first application that needs them is documented. Regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel Co-Chairs, IETF CCAMP Working Group Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:06:35 +0000 Message-ID: <46BDDDBD.50005@psg.com> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:03:09 +0200 From: dimitri papadimitriou Reply-To: dpapadimitriou@psg.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel CC: CCAMP@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Non-member submission from [Sukrit Dasgupta ] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi here are my comments on this document: Need to distinguish the different crankback methodologies when carrying out comparisons (source, per domain/area, etc.) Section 3 needs way better refined definitions before drawing conclusions - as examplest that section states: "With the PD or PCE approach, the signaling of a TE LSP my fail because of lack of synchronization between the Traffic Engineering Database (TED) used by the computing entity and the actual link reservation state." fair but why then the following is observed (Section 5.3) "Figures 2e and 3e shows the distribution of the total number of signaling failures experienced by the TE LSPs during setup. About 38% and 55% of TE LSPs for MESH-CORE and SYM-CORE, respectively, experience a signaling failures with per-domain path computation when link failures take place in the network. In contrast, only about 3% of the TE LSPs experience signaling failures with the PCE method. It should be noted that the signaling failures experienced with the PCE correspond only to the TEDs being out of date." from "As discussed in the previous sections, signaling failures occur either due to an outdated TED or when a path cannot be found from theselected entry border router." one can deduce that the delta is resulting from "With the PD approach, another situation leading to a signaling failure is when the selected exit domain router does not have any path obeying the set of constraints toward a downstream exit node or the TE LSP destination." why the TED is not populated with that information for PD path computation purposes such to have comparable working assumptions ? (in other terms why only the BRPC method benefits from this advantage ?) comparisons shall be done with identical TED otherwise you don't need experiments by definition having less critical information leeds to such results the observation is thus not that BRPC is better than PD computation but that BOTH techniques needs to have certain information about links inter-connecting domains to decrease the blocking/failure probability. thanks, -d. Adrian Farrel wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- >> To: dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be >> Cc: JP Vasseur , >> Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira , >> ccamp@ops.ietf.org >> From: Sukrit Dasgupta >> Subject: Comments/Feedback on >> draft-dasgupta-ccamp-path-comp-analysis-00.txt >> Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:54:20 -0400 >> >> Hi Dimitri, >> >> With respect to our discussion on the floor at CCAMP, it would be >> great to get your comments/feedback on draft-dasgupta-ccamp-path-comp- >> analysis-00.txt/pdf. This would help to further proceed with the draft. >> >> Thanks, >> Sukrit > > > > > . > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:09:46 +0000 Message-ID: <0a0e01c7db46$e5511b40$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Re: Support for draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt as WG I-D? Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:30:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, We discussed this on the list before Chicago and raised it during the meeting. There was no objection to adopting the draft. Authors, please repost the I-D as draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt with no changes except to boilerplate. Thanks, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:19 PM Subject: Re: Support for draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt as WG I-D? >I hear no dissent. > > We'll float the idea in front of the meeting in Chicago to give one last > chance for any complaints and then move forwards immediately after > Chicago. > > Thanks, > Adrian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adrian Farrel" > To: "Dan Li" ; "ccamp" > Cc: "Deborah A. Brungard" ; "Arun Satyanarayana" > > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 1:40 PM > Subject: Support for draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt as WG I-D? > > >> Hi, >> >> In Prague we found that there was some support for this work, and no >> opposition. >> >> There were questions regarding clarifying that the work does not define >> new process or procedures, but explains how existing procedures (i.e. >> draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-08.txt) can be applied in a variety of >> situations. I think that this revision has included this clarification. >> >> There was a request to broaden the draft to cover all scenarios (not just >> multi-node as before), and this has been done. >> >> There was concern about whether there was "service provider" interest in >> this work. In fact, several of the hands raised to express interest >> worked for service providers. But I am not personally convinced that this >> Informational work needs strong support from that sector. More to the >> point would be support from the vendors who need to agree how they will >> operate draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext. >> >> So, I'd like to ask the WG whether there is support to make this I-D a WG >> draft. >> If we do, I would like to see it complete quite quickly. It would need: >> - review by vendors to make sure it is accurate >> - a bit more text on security issues >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dan Li" >> To: "ccamp" >> Cc: "Deborah A. Brungard" ; "Farrel, Adrian" >> ; "Arun Satyanarayana" >> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 2:08 AM >> Subject: New draft: draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt >> >> >>> Dear CCAMPers, >>> >>> We have published a "new" I-D: >>> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/draft-li-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt >>> >>> This I-D replaces the previous I-D >>> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/draft-li-ccamp-multinodes-gr-proc-01.txt. >>> >>> According to the discussion in Prague meeting, we have: >>> 1) Changed draft to be Informational. Mainly rewords the draft to make >>> sure that it does not give instructions that could be interpreted as >>> defining the procedures. >>> 2) The title of the I-D has been changed to "Description of the RSVP-TE >>> Graceful Restart Procedures", in order to wide the scope of this I-D to >>> include the single node graceful restart scenario. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Dan Li >> >> >> >> > > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:42:50 +0000 Message-ID: <09a101c7dab4$f6cae910$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Working Group last call on MPLS/GMPLS interworking and migration Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:41:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, . Two working group drafts have reached the position where the authors consider them ready for last call (actually, a whole bunch have arrived there at the same time, but we want to dribble them through the last call process). These two documents concern the operation of MPLS over GMPLS, and the migration from MPLS to GMPLS. The "Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration" is (the rather poorly named) http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt The "Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS Networks" are in http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt The documents are both Informational. Please send your comments (preferably to the list) by the end of WG last call which will be 12 noon GMT 24th August 2007. Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:17:53 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt Message-Id: Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:15:02 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration Author(s) : K. Shiomoto Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2007-8-9 The migration from Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering (TE) to Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) is the process of evolving an MPLS-TE control plane to a GMPLS control plane. An appropriate migration strategy will be selected based on various factors including the service provider's network deployment plan, customer demand, and operational policy. This document presents several migration models and strategies for migrating from MPLS-TE to GMPLS. In the course of migration, MPLS-TE and GMPLS devices, or networks, may coexist which may require interworking between MPLS-TE and GMPLS protocols. Aspects of the interworking required are discussed as it will influence the choice of a migration strategy. This framework document provides a migration toolkit to aid the operator in selection of an appropriate strategy. This framework document also lists a set of solutions that may aid in interworking, and highlights a set of potential issues. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-9133509.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-9133509.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 22:35:25 +0000 From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Cc: Internet Architecture Board , RFC Editor , ccamp mailing list , ccamp chair Subject: Protocol Action: 'Extensions to GMPLS RSVP Graceful Restart' to Proposed Standard Message-Id: Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 18:32:49 -0400 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Extensions to GMPLS RSVP Graceful Restart ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt Technical Summary This document describes extensions to the RSVP Graceful Restart mechanisms defined in RFC 3473. The extensions enable the recovery of RSVP signaling state based on the Path message last sent by the node being restarted. Previously defined Graceful Restart mechanisms, also called recovery from nodal faults, permit recovery of signaling state from adjacent nodes when the data plane has retained the associated forwarding state across a restart. Those mechanisms do not fully support signaling state recovery on ingress nodes or recovery of all RSVP objects. The extensions defined in this document build on the RSVP Hello extensions defined in RFC 3209, and extensions for state recovery on nodal faults defined in RFC 3473. Using these extensions the restarting node can recover all previously transmitted Path state including the Explicit Route Object and the downstream (outgoing) interface identifiers. The extensions can also be used to recover signaling state after the restart of an ingress node. The extensions optionally support the use of Summary Refresh, defined in RFC 2961, to reduce the number of messages exchanged during the Recovery Phase when the restarting node has recovered signaling state locally for one or more LSPs. Working Group Summary no dissent reported (see PROTO writeup by Adrian Farrel) Protocol Quality Ross Callon reviewed this for the IESG. There are implementations and it is reported that there is some deployment by "optical vendors" (presumably optical switches). Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 00:38:35 +0000 To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org Subject: RFC 4974 on Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in Support of Calls From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-Id: <20070808003524.9BA52DF442@bosco.isi.edu> Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:35:24 -0700 (PDT) A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 4974 Title: Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in Support of Calls Author: D. Papadimitriou, A. Farrel Status: Standards Track Date: August 2007 Mailbox: dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be, adrian@olddog.co.uk Pages: 31 Characters: 72000 Updates: RFC3473 See-Also: I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-te-call-04.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4974.txt In certain networking topologies, it may be advantageous to maintain associations between endpoints and key transit points to support an instance of a service. Such associations are known as Calls. A Call does not provide the actual connectivity for transmitting user traffic, but only builds a relationship by which subsequent Connections may be made. In Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) such Connections are known as Label Switched Paths (LSPs). This document specifies how GMPLS Resource Reservation Protocol - Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) signaling may be used and extended to support Calls. These mechanisms provide full and logical Call/Connection separation. The mechanisms proposed in this document are applicable to any environment (including multi-area), and for any type of interface: packet, layer-2, time-division multiplexed, lambda, or fiber switching. [STANDARDS TRACK] This document is a product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements.Please refer to the current edition of the Internet Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG Subject: getting rfcs help: ways_to_get_rfcs Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC Authors, for further information. The RFC Editor Team USC/Information Sciences Institute ... Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:01:14 +0000 Message-ID: <071301c7d914$2a780330$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Non-member submission from [Sukrit Dasgupta ] Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:58:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- > To: dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be > Cc: JP Vasseur , > Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira , > ccamp@ops.ietf.org > From: Sukrit Dasgupta > Subject: Comments/Feedback on > draft-dasgupta-ccamp-path-comp-analysis-00.txt > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:54:20 -0400 > > Hi Dimitri, > > With respect to our discussion on the floor at CCAMP, it would be > great to get your comments/feedback on draft-dasgupta-ccamp-path-comp- > analysis-00.txt/pdf. This would help to further proceed with the draft. > > Thanks, > Sukrit Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:17:24 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:15:02 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Requirements for the Conversion Between Permanent Connections and Switched Connections in a Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Network Author(s) : D. Caviglia, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2007-8-7 >From a Carrier perspective, the possibility of turning a Permanent Connection (PC) into a Soft Permanent Connection (SPC) and vice versa, without actually affecting Data Plane traffic being carried over it, is a valuable option. In other terms, such operation can be seen as a way of transferring the ownership and control of an existing and in-use Data Plane connection between the Management Plane and the Control Plane, leaving its Data Plane state untouched. This memo sets out the requirements for such procedures within a Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) network. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-7091559.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-8-7091559.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 14:11:41 +0000 To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Message-Id: Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:08:03 -0400 Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp (A Per-domain path computation method for establishing Inter-domain Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs)) to Proposed Standard Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org The IESG has received a request from the Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) to consider the following document: - 'A Per-domain path computation method for establishing Inter-domain Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-08-16. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-05.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=13081&rfc_flag=0 _______________________________________________ IETF-Announce mailing list IETF-Announce@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 13:58:31 +0000 Message-ID: <04eb01c7d831$8485d930$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Non-member submission from ["Igor Bryskin" ] Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 14:55:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hi, > > Please, see my comments in line. > > Igor > > "5. Section 5.8.2 - Virtual TE-links - We can think of two > different models and are not sure which one is implied in > this document. The first one is that a virtual TE-link > represents server (lower) layer potential connectivity. > The second one is that a virtual TE-link represents > client (upper) layer potential connectivity. The first > one requires knowledge of the adaptation capabilities by > the client (upper) layer. The second does not require any > knowledge of the adaptation capabilities or even the > existence of the server (lower) layer and should also be > a valid configuration. The second option may be required, > for example, when the different layers are administered > by different entities." > > The virtual TE-link represents lower layer potential > connectivity. It may be helpful to recap some terminology. > > A TE Link is (as discussed in the GMPLS/ASON lexicography set > out in RFC 4397) as logical routing element that allows path > selection to be decoupled from resource assignment. Thus a TE > Link is associated with one or more data links. This is > equivalent to an SNPP link. > > A TE Link in one layer may, of course, be achieved by one or > more LSPs in a lower layer. That is, an LSP in one layer may > form a data link in an upper layer. > > A Virtual TE Link (again referencing RFC 4397) is a TE Link > associated with zero data links. It is the potential for a TE > Link, that may be used in path computation on the assumption > that, if it is used, an attempt will be made dynamically to > create the necessary data link(s). That is, to signal an LSP > in a lower layer, to designate the LSP as a data link in the > upper layer, and to assign the data link to the TE Link. > Thus, the Virtual TE Link is dynamically converted into an > actual TE Link. > > Advertisement of the Virtual TE Link is dependent (just as > with a real TE Link) on the adaptation capabilities at the > end points. The principal differences are that the lower > layer network resources are not tied up when the Virtual TE > Link has not been made real, and that the signaling process > of the upper layer LSP might fail if the Virtual TE Link > cannot be realized. > > > IB>> The ITU folks are asking here a very good question, and IMO we are > not responding correctly. VC4 connection (server layer) could be > advertised as a TE link in VC12 layer network (client layer). This could > be done only if VC4 resources at the edges of the VC4 trail have the > necessary adaptation capability (that is to adopt VC12 signal). If the > VC12 TE link is advertised, then there is an implicit advertisement that > the client signal (VC12) can be adopted over the server trail (VC4), and > there is no need to advertise VC12/VC4 adaptation capability. Having > said this, it should be noted that the VC12 link advertisement may > contain adaptation capability for *potential clients* of the VC12, so > that a VC12 connection terminated on one of the ends of the advertised > link could be considered for advertising as a TE link into a higher > layer. > > So, my answer would be as follows. > > As far as client layer network is concerned, there is no difference > between virtual and real TE link. In both cases the link is connectivity > in the client layer (that is, model #2 as it stated in the question). > The link advertisement should not contain adaptation capability for this > client/server pair, but may contain adaptation capability for higher > client/client pair. > The server layer is the only one who distinguishes virtual from real TE > link, because in the latter case the trail is created only when it is > needed, while in the former case it is created proactively. Thus, > virtual TE link is associated with potential connection/trail in the > lower layer (that is, it is not potential connectivity in the lower > layer as stated in the response). > > > "1. Section 4.1.1.2 - Setting up virtual TE-links. We would > like to understand why the virtual TE-links need to be > created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically. > In terms of scalability, could a Virtual TE-link (assuming > it represents server (lower) layer resources) be assigned > a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated > to one or more link identifiers? It is not clear from the > draft whether this is allowed or not but we think it is > essential in developing a scalable solution. In case the > virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer > potential connectivity, the identifier would have to be > virtual as it would represent potential adaptation > capability into a server (lower) layer." > > First of all, please note again that the requirements for > multi-layer networks under different administrative domains > are out of scope of this document. Advertising the virtual > TE-link into the "client" network, which is under different > administrative domain, is out of scope of this document. > > The above question may be separated into three sub-questions > as follows; > > Q1-a) Why do the virtual TE-links need to be created as > opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically? > A1-a) It would be possible to automatically discover all > potential connectivity across the lower layer network > and to advertise a full mesh of Virtual TE Links. > However, we believe that this scenario is unlikely to > meet with the requirements of service providers who > will want to apply their own operational policies. > Such operational policies effectively install a > management function (e.g., VNT Manager) between the > analysis of the lower layer network connectivity, and > the advertisement of Virtual TE Links. > > Q1-b) Could a Virtual TE-link be assigned a virtual link > identifier that may be locally associated to one or > more link identifiers? > A1-b) In general, data link identifiers can be autogenerated > and "discovered" through information exchange between > adjacent nodes. TE Link identifiers can similarly be > autogenerated, and exchanged and associated with data > links. This, however, presupposes the existence of the > data links when the TE Links are created. > > The virtual TE-link represents lower layer potential > connectivity but does not have a lower layer data link > committed.=20 > > IB>> I disagree. The virtual TE link represents client layer > connectivity but unlike real TE link does not have the trail in the > server layer just yet. > > It must still be advertised so that they can > be use in path computation. Virtual TE-link identifiers > are assigned at both end points. They are logical ones > and are not necessarily identical to any identifiers > associated with the real physical interfaces. They may > be picked from a local pool of identifiers at both end > points and exchanged between the both end points. On > the other hand, assigning the identifier associated > with a real physical interface to the Virtual TE-link > is not precluded. Clearly configuration (manual or > through an automated process such as the Virtual > Network Topology Manager) may provide this information > in this case. The use of LMP for exchange of > information for Virtual TE Links is for future study. > > Q-c) In case the virtual TE-link could represent client > (upper) layer potential connectivity, the identifier > would have to be virtual as it would represent > potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) > layer? > A1-c) The virtual TE-link does not represent client (upper) > layer potential connectivity. > IB>> Again, see my comment above. Virtual or real TE link in a given > layer represents connectivity in this layer. It is not a potential > connectivity in the lower layer; rather, it is potential connection > (trail) in the lower layer. > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 23:55:33 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7D7BB.A5F2DE7C" Subject: Draft ccamp minutes - Chicago Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 18:52:12 -0500 Message-ID: <449B2580D802A443A923DABF3EAB82AF0EBC00FA@OCCLUST04EVS1.ugd.att.com> Thread-Topic: Draft ccamp minutes - Chicago Thread-Index: AcfXu6SYoLeOF/6kRru/sCDOb0BCrQ== From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7D7BB.A5F2DE7C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WG, =20 The draft minutes are uploaded: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/minutes/ccamp.htm =20 Much thanks to Michael Dueser for the first session notes, and Michael and Martin Vigoureux for the second session notes. Much appreciate. =20 There are a few missing items on some of the more active dialogues at the mike, so if you recall what you said;-), send, and we'll update. =20 Deborah and Adrian =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7D7BB.A5F2DE7C Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WG,
 
The = draft minutes=20 are uploaded:
http://= www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/minutes/ccamp.htm
=
 
Much = thanks to=20 Michael Dueser for the first session notes, and Michael and Martin = Vigoureux for=20 the second session notes. Much appreciate.
 
There = are a few=20 missing items on some of the more active dialogues at the mike, so if = you recall=20 what you said;-), send, and we'll update.
 
Deborah and=20 Adrian
 
 
------_=_NextPart_001_01C7D7BB.A5F2DE7C-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 10:03:05 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: greg.jones@itu.int Cc: Stephen Trowbridge , Kam Lam , Scott Bradner , Ross Callon , Dave Ward , Deborah Brungard , CCAMP Mailing List , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Re-review of ASON Routing Requirements" Reply-To: Adrian Farrel Message-Id: Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 06:00:09 -0400 Title: Re-review of ASON Routing Requirements Submission Date: 2007-08-05 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=356 Please reply by 2008-02-27 From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) To: ITU-T SG15(greg.jones@itu.int) Cc: Stephen Trowbridge Kam Lam Scott Bradner Ross Callon Dave Ward Deborah Brungard CCAMP Mailing List Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Purpose: For comment Body: The IETF CCAMP working group has become aware from the chair of ITU-T Study Group 15 Working Party 3 that there are concerns within ITU-T Study Group 15 regarding the correlation of the IETF RFCs and corresponding ITU Recommendations. The specific RFCs in question are: RFC 4258 Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Routing for the Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4258.txt RFC 4652 Evaluation of Existing Routing Protocols against Automatic Switched Optical Network (ASON) Routing Requirements http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4652.txt We believe that there may have been some developments in the ITU-T Recommendations since the completion of the RFCs (especially G.7715, G.7715.1, G.7715.2, and G.8080) that may result in desired updates to the RFCs. We also understand that there may be some long-standing concerns about some technical details in the RFCs. In the former case we would welcome pointers to the relevant sections in the Recommendations, and your analysis of what we should do with the referenced material. Specifically, what changes you believe are necessary to the RFCs, and in which sections those changes should be applied. In the latter case we would appreciate a restatement of the concerns. Given the previous attempts to ensure correlation between the work of the IETF and ITU-T, we suggest that it may be advantageous to present these concerns in new words, and providing as much technical detail as possible. Many thanks for your consideration of this issue. Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs Attachment(s): No document has been attached Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:30:17 +0000 Message-ID: <03bf01c7d6b4$4ecc2ed0$5002010a@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Subject: Draft liaison #3 - MRN/MLN Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:27:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, ITU-T Study Group 15 Question 14 sent us a liaison with some detailed questions about the MLN Requirements and Evaluation I-Ds. The author teams of the two I-Ds have drafted a technical response which I have dressed up in suitable liaison-speak. Please review and send your comments. The liaison states in a couple of places that updates will be / have been made to the I-Ds. I am relying on the document editors to make these changes and submit the new revisions by 10th August so that they can be attached to the liaison. The liaison leaves us with the following timeline... 4th August : Post draft liaison to mailing list 10th August : Post any updates to the I-Ds 15th August : Send liaison 6th September : WG last call starts 10th September : ITU-T Q14/15 meet in Stuttgart 20th September : Deadline for responses from the ITU-T 21st September : WG last call ends Hoping this meets with your approval. Thanks, Adrian === >From : IETF CCAMP Working Group To : ITU-T Study Group 15 Question 14 For : Action Deadline : 20 September 2007 Subject : Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networking The CCAMP working group of the IETF thanks you for your liaison titled "Follow up Liaison Statement to IETF CCAMP on Multi-Layer Networking" generated from your May 2007 interim meeting. This communication provides answers and explanations in response to the comments and questions that your liaison raised. As previously indicated, the CCAMP working group is ready to hold a working group last call on these two Internet-Drafts. However, in view of your comments and interest in this work we are delaying this last call to allow you to consider our responses and to provide further comments during your September interim meeting. Any additional comments that you supply will be treated as working group last call comments and handled accordingly. Working Group last call will complete on 21 September 2007 at 12 noon GMT. Please ensure that any comments are received by the IETF before that time. The latest copies of the drafts concerned can be found at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-03.txt and http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.txt draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs "1. General - Does this draft apply only to single service provider or do you envision it applying when there are multiple service providers? The ASON model (G.8080) allows for many different configurations of multilayer networks ranging from a single provider administering all layers and regions to a different provider per layer or region to several providers per layer or region. If two layers are under different administrative domains because they belong to two different providers, the amount of information that can be shared between the two domains is more limited than in the case where a single provider network provides resources at all layers." A customer network may be provided on top of the GMPLS-based multi-region/multi-layer network. It is indeed a strong motivator for the deployment of multi-region/multi-layer networks as described in Section 3.2 of the draft. This draft is, however, scoped to the assumption that the control plane and the data plane are under the responsibility of a single service provider and so constitute a single administrative domain. The MRN/MLN suite of documents makes no assumptions concerning the interfaces with other domains (e.g. UNI, E-NNI). In particular, the specific problem examined within the CCAMP MRN/MLN work is the integration of multiple network layers (that may be from different regions) within the same administrative domain. Requirements for multiple network layers under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. It should be noted that the term region used in the MRN/MLN suite of documents is as per IETF definition (see RFC4206). The statement will be added to Section 1 to articulate that this draft is scoped to the requirements for multi-layer networks under a single control plane and that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. "2. Section 3 - There is an example of several layers of a TDM region. The addition of a VCAT layer example would be more complete. For example, VC-4-7v." Thank you for this suggestion. We have integrated this example into the I-D. "3. Section 3.1 - The last paragraph mentions discontinuity when crossing a region boundary. We would like to point out that the ASON model does not have control plane discontinuity when crossing a region boundary as there are call controllers at each layer. Call controllers at both ends of adaptation into a server (lower) layer communicate with each other." There may be some misunderstanding of the term "discontinuity". In the context of this section of the draft, "discontinuity" indicates that it may not be possible to simply forward the signaling message (i.e. RSVP-TE Path message) from a node in one layer to a node in the next layer (even when stitching or 1:1 multiplexing is used) because there is a necessary change in some of the signaling objects (for example, the representation of bandwidth) at region boundaries. We may solve the discontinuity issue in a method similar to that of ASON by using triggered signaling or any of the other mechanisms described in this document. To help clear up the misunderstanding, the last paragraph of Section 3.1 will be rephrased. "4. Section 5.3 - Scalability problems can be minimized by the use of TED per region in case they are under separate administration or for scalability reason." It is correct to note that the use of a separate TED per region can improve the scalability. However, part of the objective of the MRN/MLN work is to allow full visibility from each network node into all participating layers/regions. Splitting the TED will not reduce the amount of information stored or flooded within the network. Indeed, as multiple switching capabilities can be advertised in a single TE-Link advertisement, the total number of entries in a TED should not differ much from a single layer network (although each entry may be a little larger). Furthermore, the number of TE Link advertisements should not differ much from a single layer network (although each advertisement may be slightly larger), thus not putting additional strain on the routing protocol flooding process. No scalability problems have been identified. Section 5.3 will be further clarified. "5. Section 5.8.2 - Virtual TE-links - We can think of two different models and are not sure which one is implied in this document. The first one is that a virtual TE-link represents server (lower) layer potential connectivity. The second one is that a virtual TE-link represents client (upper) layer potential connectivity. The first one requires knowledge of the adaptation capabilities by the client (upper) layer. The second does not require any knowledge of the adaptation capabilities or even the existence of the server (lower) layer and should also be a valid configuration. The second option may be required, for example, when the different layers are administered by different entities." The virtual TE-link represents lower layer potential connectivity. It may be helpful to recap some terminology. A TE Link is (as discussed in the GMPLS/ASON lexicography set out in RFC 4397) as logical routing element that allows path selection to be decoupled from resource assignment. Thus a TE Link is associated with one or more data links. This is equivalent to an SNPP link. A TE Link in one layer may, of course, be achieved by one or more LSPs in a lower layer. That is, an LSP in one layer may form a data link in an upper layer. A Virtual TE Link (again referencing RFC 4397) is a TE Link associated with zero data links. It is the potential for a TE Link, that may be used in path computation on the assumption that, if it is used, an attempt will be made dynamically to create the necessary data link(s). That is, to signal an LSP in a lower layer, to designate the LSP as a data link in the upper layer, and to assign the data link to the TE Link. Thus, the Virtual TE Link is dynamically converted into an actual TE Link. Advertisement of the Virtual TE Link is dependent (just as with a real TE Link) on the adaptation capabilities at the end points. The principal differences are that the lower layer network resources are not tied up when the Virtual TE Link has not been made real, and that the signaling process of the upper layer LSP might fail if the Virtual TE Link cannot be realized. "6. Section 4.2 - The last paragraph mentions that TE link advertisements may need to provide information about the node's internal adaptation capabilities in order to perform layer border node functions. It might be worth clarifying the instances where this is required versus not required. For example, if Virtual TE-links are used to represent the client (upper) layer connectivity, it is not necessary to advertise internal adaptation capabilities." There is no difference with respect to real or Virtual TE Links in this regard, and all TE Links (virtual or otherwise) must be considered with regard to their switching types and the adaptation capabilities of their end points. The adaptation capability, enables a node to discriminate the remote nodes (and thus allows their selection during a multi- region path computation) with respect to their adaptation capability. i.e., their capability to terminate LSPs at a given region. Please see also RFC4397 for adaptation capability definitions. draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval "1. Section 4.1.1.2 - Setting up virtual TE-links. We would like to understand why the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically. In terms of scalability, could a Virtual TE-link (assuming it represents server (lower) layer resources) be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? It is not clear from the draft whether this is allowed or not but we think it is essential in developing a scalable solution. In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, the identifier would have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer." First of all, please note again that the requirements for multi-layer networks under different administrative domains are out of scope of this document. Advertising the virtual TE-link into the "client" network, which is under different administrative domain, is out of scope of this document. The above question may be separated into three sub-questions as follows; Q1-a) Why do the virtual TE-links need to be created as opposed to discovered, manually or dynamically? A1-a) It would be possible to automatically discover all potential connectivity across the lower layer network and to advertise a full mesh of Virtual TE Links. However, we believe that this scenario is unlikely to meet with the requirements of service providers who will want to apply their own operational policies. Such operational policies effectively install a management function (e.g., VNT Manager) between the analysis of the lower layer network connectivity, and the advertisement of Virtual TE Links. Q1-b) Could a Virtual TE-link be assigned a virtual link identifier that may be locally associated to one or more link identifiers? A1-b) In general, data link identifiers can be autogenerated and "discovered" through information exchange between adjacent nodes. TE Link identifiers can similarly be autogenerated, and exchanged and associated with data links. This, however, presupposes the existence of the data links when the TE Links are created. The virtual TE-link represents lower layer potential connectivity but does not have a lower layer data link committed. It must still be advertised so that they can be use in path computation. Virtual TE-link identifiers are assigned at both end points. They are logical ones and are not necessarily identical to any identifiers associated with the real physical interfaces. They may be picked from a local pool of identifiers at both end points and exchanged between the both end points. On the other hand, assigning the identifier associated with a real physical interface to the Virtual TE-link is not precluded. Clearly configuration (manual or through an automated process such as the Virtual Network Topology Manager) may provide this information in this case. The use of LMP for exchange of information for Virtual TE Links is for future study. Q-c) In case the virtual TE-link could represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity, the identifier would have to be virtual as it would represent potential adaptation capability into a server (lower) layer? A1-c) The virtual TE-link does not represent client (upper) layer potential connectivity. "2. Section 4.1.1.3 - Traffic disruption minimization during FA release. In case disruption is required in the server (lower) layer, we think there is also an option to signal to the adaptation points and let them re-establish the server (lower) layer as opposed to rely on the head-end LSRs in the client (upper) layer." Section 4.1.1.3 does not specify nor preclude any mechanism to deal with traffic disruption. In the context of the MRN/MLN, upper layer LSPs may be routed over FAs. For reasons outside the scope of these documents, an FA may need to be released or rerouted. This may have a disruptive effect on the LSPs using this FA in the sense that this would induce a route change of these upper layer LSPs. Only the head-end LSR of an (FA-)LSP is responsible for re-routing or releasing FA-LSPs. As such head-end LSRs ("adaptation points" as stated in the question) are responsible for rerouting/releasing FA-LSPs and head-end LSRs of the upper layer LSPs are responsible for rerouting the LSPs they control. The adaptation points can NOT take responsibility for rerouting upper layers LSPs over other (newly established or not) FAs if they are not head-end LSRs of the upper-layer LSPs but only intermediate LSRs for these LSPs The data link created in an upper layer by an FA LSP may be a protected data link (in the meaning of link level protection - see RFC 3471). This link level protection may be achieved by end-to-end protection of the FA LSP, or through any other LSP protection scheme including LSP restoration. This case seems to match what you have described, but note that the process of switching traffic (i.e. the nested LSP) from one FA LSP to another is likely to cause a small traffic hit in all but packet/frame technologies. We would like to thank you for your detailed enquiry into this topic, and hope that you feel that the discussion has been fruitful. Best regards, Deborah Brungard and Adrian Farrel IETF CCAMP Co-chairs Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 08:36:40 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Proposed CCAMP recharter Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:33:47 +0200 Message-ID: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604C4A069@ftrdmel2> Thread-Topic: Proposed CCAMP recharter Thread-Index: AcfP2JrFb12RqxyOQC22qIgA7mKV5AFzfQiA From: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" To: , , Cc: , "Ross Callon" , Hi Adrian. I agree with Dimitri about the use of the term "Ethernet". As we don't = control IP but MPLS-TE, we're looking into controlling a = "connection-oriented Ethernet" which isn't really Ethernet and not = supported by typical "Ethernet switches". On the other hand, (echoing = Dimitri again) we are also considering Ethernet services over any = GMPLS-controlled layer. I also agree it is useless to rearrange all short-term milestones = (unlike the charter which has a more long-term value). Regards, Julien -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On = Behalf Of dimitri papadimitriou adrian couple of points on editorship: - MRN req + eval. should imho be ready by end Aug. - concerning the i/w document i'd like to suggest referring to MPLS-TE=20 (rather than MPLS) since applying only to RSVP-TE - also you refer to a solution for the latter but we just have req. and=20 a framework since so far -> are u sure solution would be ready by Sep'07 or alternatively the former doc shall be split and further discussed we need also a milestone for input to the MPLS security doc. but not=20 sure this has to be recorded concerning the charter, two specific comments - like also mentioned during the second meeting, clarifying the term=20 Ethernet types would be suggested otherwise entering in an open-ended discussion about what is allowed/not allowed, desired/not-desired,=20 possible/not possible, etc. and probably focus on the analytical work=20 here (something we should have probably done in the GELS context but=20 did not happen) - side note here it was always felt useful to have=20 operational use case described as well but that work did also never = happen - is this milestone also including Ethernet service signaling e.g. MEF ? = in that case i would suggest to make a clear distinction here ? thanks, -d. Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, >=20 > As discussed at the meeting(s) we should consider a small recharter to = > put the GELS work clearly in scope and to indicate that we will work=20 > with IEEE 802.1 as necessary. >=20 > We should take the opportunity to rejig the milestones, but noting = that=20 > a bunch of (overdue) milestones are about to be completed it is moot=20 > whether we should rearrange them all. Basically, I am too lazy to do=20 > that and propose just to change the ones that are further out. >=20 > I would like to ask you all to look at this and comment. In = particular:=20 > are the document editors happy with these targets? >=20 > ADs - your opinions too, please. >=20 > The changes proposed are... > =3D=3D=3D > First paragraph > OLD > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining = a=20 > common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for=20 > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom=20 > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, = > ATM and Frame Relay switches, MPLS, GRE, in cooperation with the MPLS = WG. >=20 > NEW > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining = a=20 > common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for=20 > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom=20 > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, = > TDM switches, Ethernet switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, and = MPLS=20 > GRE, in cooperation with the MPLS WG. > =3D=3D=3D > Final paragraph > OLD > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the = following=20 > other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG will also=20 > cooperate with the ITU-T. >=20 > NEW > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the = following=20 > other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG will also=20 > cooperate with the ITU-T, and the IEEE 802.1. > =3D=3D=3D > Milestones (only those changed or new) >=20 > Aug 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN > Aug 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements > Sep 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain = issues=20 > for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG = review > Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions=20 > I-D for IESG review > Sep 2007 First version WG I-Ds for control of Ethernet networks > Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region=20 > Networks I-D for IESG review > Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for = IESG=20 > review > Oct 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to cover = > RSVP-TE signaling extensions > Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG = review > Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review > Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review > Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review > Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for MIB = > doctor and IESG review > May 2008 Submit protocol extensions for control of Ethernet = networks=20 > for IESG review > Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group > =3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 >=20 >=20 > . >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:17:47 +0000 To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching (Label Switched Path Stitching with Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering (GMPLS TE)) to Proposed Standard Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: Message-Id: Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:16:49 -0400 The IESG has received a request from the Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) to consider the following document: - 'Label Switched Path Stitching with Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering (GMPLS TE) ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-08-16. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching-06.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=13048&rfc_flag=0 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:10:55 +0000 To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te (Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions) to Proposed Standard Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: Message-Id: Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:10:30 -0400 The IESG has received a request from the Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) to consider the following document: - 'Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-08-16. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-06.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=12792&rfc_flag=0 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:09:36 +0000 To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp (A Per-domain path computation method for establishing Inter-domain Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs)) to Proposed Standard Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: Message-Id: Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:08:03 -0400 The IESG has received a request from the Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) to consider the following document: - 'A Per-domain path computation method for establishing Inter-domain Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-08-16. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp-05.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=13081&rfc_flag=0 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 13:15:46 +0000 Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 15:13:33 +0200 From: Xu Xiaohu Subject: re: Is fate-sharing a must for the bidirectional TE LSP? To: 'MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN' , ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-id: <000d01c7d506$ef726480$54c1c80a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-index: AcfQN76MRxmHBlcHTc+PsCRk25NgxgALzCzwASfulDA= Hi Julien, Thanks a lot for your opinion. Best regards, =20 Xu Xiaohu =20 -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org = [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2007=C4=EA7=D4=C227=C8=D5 18:16 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Xu Xiaohu; ccamp@ops.ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: Is fate-sharing a must for the bidirectional TE LSP? Hi Steven. Please find some pieces of answer below. I hope it will help. Regards, Julien ________________________________ From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Xu Xiaohu In the current PWE3 standard, although there is no requirement for fate-sharing on the outer LSP tunnels, bidirectional service, including CES, ATM and FR, can be supported well over PWE3. Is there some difference between the service requirements on PWE3 and those on bidirectional TE LSP? [JM] As you say, in PWE3 these are "service requirements", while when talking about TE-LSPs, we are considering various layers, from packet down to optical. As a results, requirements are different regarding the layer you are considering and the operationnal constrains you have on operating that specific layer. With the deployment of P2MP TE LSP, the bandwidth consumption over a link will become more asymmetric. The bidirectional TE LSP without fate-sharing requirement will maximize the utilization of the total network bandwidth resource because the forward LSP and backward LSP can travel over the different physical paths. [JM] For instance, lambdas over a core network may be more likely to have symmetrical needs than packet-based application over an aggregation network. In the latter case, having different routes or bandwidths on both direction could help optimization whereas in the former case, lambdas are prefered to be co-routed in both directions, otherwise it may become more complicated to operate and a mess for network planning. Any comment is welcomed. =20 =20 Best regards, =20 Steven Xu =20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:28:25 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Jones Cc: Stephen Trowbridge , Kam Lam , Scott Bradner , Ross Callon , Dave Ward , Deborah Brungard , CCAMP Mailing List , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard , Adrian Farrel , Deborah Brungard From: Adrian Farrel (IETF CCAMP WG) Subject: New Liaison Statement, "New RFCs Published as of 1st August 2007" Reply-To: Adrian Farrel Message-Id: Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 06:25:32 -0400 Title: New RFCs Published as of 1st August 2007 Submission Date: 2007-08-02 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=352 From: Adrian Farrel(IETF CCAMP WG) To: ITU-T SG15(Greg Jones ) Cc: Stephen Trowbridge Kam Lam Scott Bradner Ross Callon Dave Ward Deborah Brungard CCAMP Mailing List Reponse Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Technical Contact: Adrian Farrel Deborah Brungard Purpose: For information Body: The CCAMP working group of the IETF would like to inform you of the publication of several new RFCs (Request for Comment) that may be relevant to your work. RFC 4872 Title RSVP-TE Extensions in Support of End-to-End Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Recovery Abstract This document describes protocol-specific procedures and extensions for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Resource ReSerVation Protocol - Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) signaling to support end-to-end Label Switched Path (LSP) recovery that denotes protection and restoration. A generic functional description of GMPLS recovery can be found in a companion document, RFC 4426. RFC 4873 Title GMPLS Segment Recovery Abstract This document describes protocol specific procedures for GMPLS (Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching) RSVP-TE (Resource ReserVation Protocol - Traffic Engineering) signaling extensions to support label switched path (LSP) segment protection and restoration. These extensions are intended to complement and be consistent with the RSVP-TE Extensions for End-to-End GMPLS Recovery (RFC 4872). Implications and interactions with fast reroute are also addressed. This document also updates the handling of NOTIFY_REQUEST objects. RFC 4874 Title Exclude Routes - Extension to Resource ReserVation Protocol- Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Abstract This document specifies ways to communicate route exclusions during path setup using Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE). The RSVP-TE specification, "RSVP-TE: Extensions to RSVP for LSP Tunnels" (RFC 3209) and GMPLS extensions to RSVP-TE, "Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Extensions" (RFC 3473) allow abstract nodes and resources to be explicitly included in a path setup, but not to be explicitly excluded. In some networks where precise explicit paths are not computed at the head end, it may be useful to specify and signal abstract nodes and resources that are to be explicitly excluded from routes. These exclusions may apply to the whole path, or to parts of a path between two abstract nodes specified in an explicit path. How Shared Risk Link Groups (SRLGs) can be excluded is also specified in this document. RFC 4875 Title Extensions to Resource Reservation Protocol - Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) for Point-to-Multipoint TE Label Switched Paths (LSPs) Abstract This document describes extensions to Resource Reservation Protocol - Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) for the set up of Traffic Engineered (TE) point-to-multipoint (P2MP) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) in Multi- Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) networks. The solution relies on RSVP-TE without requiring a multicast routing protocol in the Service Provider core. Protocol elements and procedures for this solution are described. There can be various applications for P2MP TE LSPs such as IP multicast. Specification of how such applications will use a P2MP TE LSP is outside the scope of this document. RFC 4920 Title Crankback Signaling Extensions for MPLS and GMPLS RSVP-TE Abstract In a distributed, constraint-based routing environment, the information used to compute a path may be out of date. This means that Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineered (TE) Label Switched Path (LSP) setup requests may be blocked by links or nodes without sufficient resources. Crankback is a scheme whereby setup failure information is returned from the point of failure to allow new setup attempts to be made avoiding the blocked resources. Crankback can also be applied to LSP recovery to indicate the location of the failed link or node. This document specifies crankback signaling extensions for use in MPLS signaling using RSVP-TE as defined in "RSVP-TE: Extensions to RSVP for LSP Tunnels", RFC 3209, and GMPLS signaling as defined in "Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Functional Description", RFC 3473. These extensions mean that the LSP setup request can be retried on an alternate path that detours around blocked links or nodes. This offers significant improvements in the successful setup and recovery ratios for LSPs, especially in situations where a large number of setup requests are triggered at the same time. RFC 4972 Title Routing Extensions for Discovery of Multiprotocol (MPLS) Label Switch Router (LSR) Traffic Engineering (TE) Mesh Membership Abstract The setup of a full mesh of Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSP) among a set of Label Switch Routers (LSR) is a common deployment scenario of MPLS Traffic Engineering either for bandwidth optimization, bandwidth guarantees or fast rerouting with MPLS Fast Reroute. Such deployment may require the configuration of a potentially large number of TE LSPs (on the order of the square of the number of LSRs). This document specifies Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP) routing extensions for Intermediate System-to-Intermediate System (IS-IS) and Open Shortest Path First (OSPF) so as to provide an automatic discovery of the set of LSRs members of a mesh in order to automate the creation of such mesh of TE LSPs. All IETF RFCs can be downloaded for free from http://www.ietf.org/rfc.html The current work plan and progress status of the CCAMP working group can be viewed at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ccamp-charter.html As always, the CCAMP working group welcomes questions and discussion about all of its work from individuals or organisations. The CCAMP mailing list is open to anyone. Details of subscription can be found on the CCAMP charter page. Best regards, Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard Co-chairs, IETF CCAMP Working Group Attachment(s): PDF of original LS (https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file460.pdf) Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 01:13:09 +0000 To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org Subject: RFC 4972 on Routing Extensions for Discovery of Multiprotocol (MPLS) Label Switch Router (LSR) Traffic Engineering (TE) Mesh Membership From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-Id: <20070801010833.20651DB06B@bosco.isi.edu> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:08:33 -0700 (PDT) A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 4972 Title: Routing Extensions for Discovery of Multiprotocol (MPLS) Label Switch Router (LSR) Traffic Engineering (TE) Mesh Membership Author: JP. Vasseur, Ed., JL. Leroux, Ed., S. Yasukawa, S. Previdi, P. Psenak, P. Mabbey Status: Standards Track Date: July 2007 Mailbox: jpv@cisco.com, jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com, s.yasukawa@hco.ntt.co.jp, sprevidi@cisco.com, ppsenak@cisco.com, Paul_Mabey@cable.comcast.com Pages: 15 Characters: 32044 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ccamp-automesh-04.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4972.txt The setup of a full mesh of Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSP) among a set of Label Switch Routers (LSR) is a common deployment scenario of MPLS Traffic Engineering either for bandwidth optimization, bandwidth guarantees or fast rerouting with MPLS Fast Reroute. Such deployment may require the configuration of a potentially large number of TE LSPs (on the order of the square of the number of LSRs). This document specifies Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP) routing extensions for Intermediate System-to-Intermediate System (IS-IS) and Open Shortest Path First (OSPF) so as to provide an automatic discovery of the set of LSRs members of a mesh in order to automate the creation of such mesh of TE LSPs. [STANDARDS TRACK] This document is a product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements.Please refer to the current edition of the Internet Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. 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